Black Maple Hill 18 Year Old Rye. . . .

I have tried this label's 14 and 16 year old bourbon. I flat out did not like the 16 year old and only liked the 14 year old marginally, although I will say it was good. I recently passed up an opportunity to purchase the 21 year old bourbon. It appears that this obscure line of whiskies specializes in the weird tasting and overpriced.

As for their 18 year old, 95 proof rye I can definitely say it was good. It was good enough to alter my Top Ten Rye List, although not good enough to crack the elite top four, although it did compete in my mind to a degree with the fourth spot.

What was good about this rye that I purchased for the "walk-out price" of $68.19 was that it has a tasty and complex flavor profile, but the flavors are somewhat muddled and the body is dull, lacking boldness. It appears that 18 years in the oak has smoothed it out so much it blew right past it's peak, if it ever had one.

This rye tastes like a mouthful of slightly spicy oak to start off rushing immediately into a muted blackberry taste, with perhaps a touch of maple syrup. The blackberry unfortunately doesn't come through bold and clear and is muddled by the taste of earthy notes, which are somewhat disappointing, although interesting. What's disappointing about the earth notes is the quick transcendence from the blackberry to the earth, without allowing the blackberry to clarify itself.

Would I buy it again? At that price maybe not, because I'd like to spend my time trying new ryes, which are rare enough without spending bucks like that on something that's really not great. As for my top three ryes, I'd spend the bucks any day, and the fourth is really special too, but I'll pass every now and then. The rest of the rye list is good, but dependent on the price. The best bang for the buck rye on my Top Ten is probably the No. 2, but a big IF you can find it. Nos. 6, 7, 8 are wonderful for the price, not outstanding or complex, top shelf style ryes, but tasty and a good bang for the buck.


1. The Classic Cask Single Batch 22 year old
2. Van Winkle Family Reserve 13 year old
3. The Classic Cask Single Batch 21 year old
4. Sazerac 18 year old
5. Black Maple Hill 18 year old
6. Old Overholt
7. Jim Beam Rye
8. Wild Turkey Rye
9. Hirsch Reserve 13 year old
10. Pikesville

Well, in that case I guess he gave the subpar stuff to Hirsch where the rye is concerned, and the bourbon that REALLY sucked went to Black Maple Hill. That's some weird tasting stuff, even this rye. Tastes like someone backed a dump truck full of potting soil up to the bottling area and ran it down a conveyer like a cement mixer into the whiskey.

Wax seal as in on the neck? The 14 and 16 don't have that. And when I said weird, I meant like a dump truck with potting soil weird. Not even whiskey weird. Like the 16 maybe tastes like a flat port wine, and the 14? Hmmmmmmmm, it's good but, it wouldn't make my Top 35-40 if there was one. Wellll, maybe Top 40.

As for the 21, I passed up a chance to get it from Binny's for a "walk-out price" of $83-85. Not worth that much for R&D unless it is really that good. I guess I'll have to wait to find out. But if Mr. JVW really was involved with that one, maybe I'll reconsider next time I see it. Oh right, Mission has it for $10 more than Binny's and higher shipping costs.

Oh well. :dunno:

Well, it's been a couple years I think. I know someone who may still have the bottles. Unless she steamed the labels and wax seal off for her homemade holiday kahlua, they'll be there. She wouldn't steam off a wax seal though. I'll ask her.

Wow!!! I love it. You guys really make my day. The addition of tnbackpacker to these discussions has really kicked them up to "notches previously unknown." Leaving for the city soon, an unusual Friday for me in that I'm usually at home on the computer all day. I'll read this again a couple times and in more depth when I get back tonight, and also join in. Thanks again.

Needless to say, while tnbackpacker and Hollow Point continue to provide thought provoking, fascinating and in-depth background to this conversation, as well as pretty much everything they post about, my head has begun to spin. The Blond(e) Factor has pretty much taken over. Forget about whether or not it's "chicken or fish," but whether or not the Van Winkle Family Reserve 13 year old rye is one whiskey, two, or whether or not it was ever one whiskey or two, or whether or not it is now, or whether or not . . .

Can you see my head spinning? Outside of the fact that I'll keep reading this thread for interest's sake, don't expect me to be doing anything but looking and sounding like the Aflac Duck. That basically leaves me looking a lot like this:

:dunno: :duh:

It also leads back to wisdom dispensed by Hollow Point some time ago. And that is since we are dealing with farm products here, not only will things like flavor sometimes vary from bottle to bottle and year to year, but in time even greater discrepancies in "known flavor profiles" may crop up in certain products. Witness my own (and many others') experience with the decline in quality (meaning reduced flavor and strength) of the Hemingway cigar line around 2000, which now appears to be returning to the more familiar territory of it's flavor and strength circa 1997.

With the passing of certain eras in an industry or within companies, the "known flavor profile" of certain products may change significantly. This is certainly true in my own observations of my No. 2 bourbon, the Pappy Van Winkle Family Reserve 20 year old. The latest release bears little resemblance to the stuff I tasted three years ago, although I'd have to admit it's just as good, and thereby still occupies the No. 2 spot on my Top 25 list.

Such is the wisdom of Hollow Point, that even with my own Top 25 bourbon list as it pertains only to ME, there is still the fact that through a period of years it serves as a guideline, but not a concept that need necessarily be "carved in stone." This is because today's bourbon of a certain label may not be the way it tasted ten years ago or will taste ten years from now.

Oh sure, in the five or so years that I've been drinking bourbon, Knob Creek has always pretty much tasted the same, and so have many others, but with labels like Van Winkle in such a state of flux, the watchword is don't go conning yourself if you honestly find that something changes and therefore a certain vaunted "special list" has to change.

And with that statement/admission, I'm still . . .

The Great Dumboni.

Let's just say that through the years the many bottles of Van Winkle Family Reserve 13 year old rye that I personally have tasted have been similar enough and good enough to place it in the No. 2 spot on my Top Ten rye list. I have had "D" bottles, "B" bottles, and other letters as well. I will defer to the superior inside knowledge and scrutiny of Hollow Point and tnbackpacker, but since a blond(e) needs guidelines, for the time being, my lists still stand.

:dunno: :duh:

Master Whiskey, 13th Dan, Most Admired Spirits Sensei, The Whiskey Dogg Detective, has spoken. Keep talking, both of you, and anyone else jump in. I'm listening intently in the first row.