Pappy has spoiled me!

Joined Mar 2007
482 Posts | 0+
Phoenix, AZ
I've been trying new bourbons thanks to Bloof's top 25 thread. Got a bottle of Pappys 20yr old last weekend and I don't want to touch anything else! My bookers will never be the same. Too bad it's too expensive to drink on a daily basis for me. If you haven't tried it yet, all I can say is it takes bourbon to a whole new level. Caramel and vanilla nose and a potpourri of flavors from caramel to citrus to oak with hints of nuts and even berries. Wasn't very hot at all for being a fraction over 90 proof. A first class spirit IMHO. Number 1 with a bullet on my list though I have yet to try Bloof's #1 & #2 favorites.
 
Yeah, you'll get spoiled on Pappy's 20, that's for sure.

As for my No. 1, don't bother. I'll explain some time over the weekend. If you don't want to wait, do a search where anything I've said about the "Hirsch 16" or "A.H. Hirsch Reserve 16 year old" or any offshoot of those key words is targeted. It will explain why although there may be plenty of bottles on the market, what's around is probably not worth buying. I'll check back in over the weekend to see if you've replied and found it. I strongly advise not buying it.

As for my No. 2, yes, buy it, and get yours from Binny's, if you're able to receive booze shipments where you live. If you've already kissed Pappy's 20, and found that expensive, which it is, you won't be able to afford No. 2, even Binny's price, unless it's your birthday, hee, hee, heee!!! But if you can spring for it, yes, it IS worth a "C Note," considering this is 2007, and I'm paying $1,500 for a 470 square foot, two bedroom apartment, and counting my blessings, HA!!! I remember when houses were the price of today's cars.

And I assume you already know this, because it sounds as though you've really done your research around here, but Knob Creek stands tall as the all-time bang for the buck king with me and a lot of other experienced bourbon drinkers. As always, shop for the best price. When you can't afford Pappy's 20, Knob Creek will put a smile on your wallet.
 
I see that Hirsch was bought by Preiss Imports and is no longer made, with only a limited supply left. I would assume the price is astronomical IF I could even find it. I'll deff look for the Vintage though.

I paid a c-note for the pappy's, 10 bucks more than at Binny's, but the place I go to is a little pricey. They do, however, have a great selection of beer, wine, spirits, and premium cigars, so I know I can get everything I want in one stop. They also have the only cigar bar in town, so I don't mind supporting them. As long as they stay open, I have a place to have a drink and a cigar while I watch sunday NFL :wink:

As mentioned tho, this won't be a daily sipper. Maybe on the weekends or other special occasion. Thanks for the list, I'm enjoying trying all the ones on it that I haven't had before. You really know your stuff.
 
Thanks for the compliments. The only reason I know so much is because I've drunk so much, ha, haaaaaaaaaaaa!!! Well, after eight years of drinking bourbon and rye, with 83 bourbons tried and about two dozen ryes, a long list of NYC based and internet merchants purchased from, I've put all my experience and observations into keeping up with what's happening in the world of bourbon and rye, from distillery to store shelf.

You should definitely never buy Pappy's 20 at Binny's. While Binny's remains my overall favorite web site, it's kind of like looking for a wide receiver. There are speed, hands, moves and durability. Does a guy you want for your team have all four? That's rare. So, you check abilities and figure out where each individual is on those attributes, assigning a proficiency scale to each. So it goes with internet booze shopping.

Sadly, internet booze shopping ain't what it used to be back in the last of the "old days," which for me was 1999-2002. It seems that zealous politicians, eager to tax everything including nose hairs, scared a lot of internet merchants and shippers. As a result, a couple of great web sites no longer ship out of state. With the ones that do, like Binny's, there are still restrictions to certain states.

Thankfully, there are still great places to shop in the internet, and if you decide to plunge into it, you can always ask me here, because I'm Puerto Rican and Jewish, which means I have the comedy and shopping genes on both sides of the family, hee, hee, heee!!! You should really try to never pay more than $80 as a "walk-out price" for Pappy's 20. There go those quotes again. When I say "walk-out price," I mean what actually comes out of your pocket.

It's like here in NYC. Hey Jack, howmuchyapayfuhdatbottlaknobcreekyagotdere?

Duhhhhhhhhh, nyneteenightynyne.

Well, Jack didn't really pay $19.99 for that bourbon, because in NYC we have Sir Charge, which means they'll charge you for anything, and the sales tax here is 8.375%, so what actually came out of Jack's pocket was $21.66.

This is important, this seeming minutae here. When you are shopping on the internet, you cannot spread shipping costs out equitably among your order, unless you order three bottles or more. It doesn't have to be the same product, just at least three bottles, otherwise you'll get blasted on shipping costs.

Be a smart shopper. Does any single web site have the best prices on all your favorites, cigars, whiskey, whatever? No, you'll never find that. I'm going to give you links below on who are the best places to explore and wind up shopping from. Check on them regularly, maybe even putting them on your computer's "favorites" list. I'm also going to list current comments, or reviews if you will, on these web sites.

Having been cigar and booze shopping via the internet for the past eight years, I have seen various merchants go through interesting economic swings. I've seen great selections get rather thin then rebound under new supervision. I've seen prices swing wildly, while interestingly enough, with all the whining from both sides of the aisle about the price of gas, it doesn't cost a whole lot more for shipping three bottles of booze than it did at the turn of the century.

I'm also going to give tips. Did you see my example above about the Knob Creek for $19.99, ending up as $21.66 in NYC? Well, let's say I saw the same price on the internet. Now, how much is it going to cost by ordering it from the web site? Well, if my order is ten bottles or more, it might be worth it to get the Knob Creek from the web site, IF I really have a bunch of things I need. But if I'm ordering the Knob Creek, a bottle of something else, and a third bottle of another product, that Knob Creek will get to me at about 25 bucks, which in a case like that means going to the store is better.

Beware of things like that. If I go to my favorite liquor store and see Pappy's 20 for $74.99, I'll go Wow!!, I might as well buy it here, because it'll cost me $81.27 as a "walk-out price." One of my favorite web sites recently upped their price to $74.99, so if I can figure out a three bottle order, with shipping it'll actually come out to a few pennies less. Now Bloof, what's a few pennies when you can have it now? Well, nothing, unless my favorite liquor store doesn't have the Pappy's 15, or has a higher price than I'm looking for, but the web site has a price that with shipping will make the whole deal dollars instead of pennies better for me.

Now, I just have to find a third bottle, I've got an order, and I'll save a quarter or two on the Pappy's 20. If I've got a little more money, and can figure out a fourth or fifth bottle for my order, I'll save dollars on the Pappy's 20. So, the taxes existent in one's locale, as opposed to shipping charges via the internet, are an important consideration when one price looks good but the "walk-out price" might not be the best for you.

Always have a calculator and check web sites on an every 7-10 day basis, as sometimes selections and prices can change suddenly.

These are my current favorite web sites with comments based on recent observation and also overall long term experience. Keep in mind that I shop only for bourbon and rye, so I'm not making claims for these web sites except as respects those two products.

http://www.binnys.com

All-time favorite, selection up and down through the years, right now excellent and rebuilding, consistently the best prices on most items, with exceptions like Pappy's 20, consistently among the best on shipping charges.

http://www.shoppersvineyard.com

Shockingly good prices on certain items like Pappy's 20, absurdly high on others, shipping charges in line with Binny's, great selection, some highly favored items always missing from list or out of stock.

http://www.internetwines.com

This place is actually called Randall's. This is the first web site I ever ordered booze from and was a favorite of mine for a while. It is the most highly exposed web site on the internet, and probably gets a lot of business from rich folks or those who just don't know there are others out there, and won't take or don't have the time to find out.

Randall's used to have a great 25% sale in which their decent, but not great prices suddenly made it worthwhile to order from them. Suddenly, around 2002 if memory serves me correctly, they suddenly developed a price structure tailored to billionaires only. To say that the phrase highway robbery applies is actually to fall short of what's been going on with their prices. For a number of years as a result, I haven't ordered from them.

Recently, I was notified of a huge and ridiculously low priced sale on bourbons I had missed out on last year due to low finances and bad timing. Unfortunately, a large check that I've been waiting most of the year for hasn't come in yet, and I will be unable to shop at Randall's. I am truly shocked at the low prices they have been charging on certain items, and am sure most, if not all, are gone by now.

Because of this interesting new sale Randall's just had, I am wondering if it wasn't because of people like me making fun of them and pounding away for the past five years that helped in causing this. Whatever it was, it certainly was and may still be a good time to check out certain sales at Randall's. Their shipping charges are likely to be in line with Binny's, as many web sites are standardizing shipping costs to be within the same range as all competitors.
 
Oh, the Hirsch 16. Well, forget about who owns the rights to the name now. It's irrelevant except to remember that anything with the current rights holders name to it is of questionable quality, at least in my opinion. It's also all "cast off" whiskey from major distilleries. I haven't liked the one or two other products under that distributors banner with the Hirsch name on it. They are using the Hirsch name and their rights to it, to capitalize on a reputation that no longer exists, because the whiskey they sell now doesn't live up to the name.

The Hirsch 16 was distilled at the original Michter's Distillery of Pennsylvania in 1974, the distillery was closed in '89 or so, and both the Hirsch 16 and Hirsch 20 finished their aging in Kentucky. If I have time later, I'll go myself to the back pages and see where I can find my comments about why no one should buy any more of it. Of course, it's just my opinion, and yes, you will pay too much, WAY too much for it. The most I ever paid for a bottle was $44.04, but that was back in the "old days" of about five years ago, and one bottle from that shipment was "bad." Since I'd had about 15 bottles for myself over the years, and had been advised to beware of buying it before that order, I was finished with it at that point, quite satisfied overall, except for that "bad" bottle, which I still have the rest of.

The Hirsch 16 whiskey being sold under the name is indeed that original distillation, but there is scuttlebutt about something going "bad" or being added to make a certain amount of bottles. At any rate, I was warned, then got a bad bottle in a shipment after being warned, and at that point, I said okay, I get it, the vagaries of the industry, whatever they are, have caught up to the final release of this whiskey.

Forget the Hirsch 16. It was wonderful, it was the Carl Lewis of bourbons. It's over. Go for the No. 2. It's $100 with shipping from Binny's. I will warn you however, that when it comes to independent reviews of this, my No. 2 is the LEAST liked of the Vintage Bourbon line. Many people love the 17, which I hate, and there are mixed reviews on the 21, which I love but less than the 23. The 21 is the best buy of the lot, and look no further than Binny's for the best prices.

I would go to http://www.straightbourbon.com for more discussion and information. Over there you have the Ruth, Gehrig, Cobb, Feller, Williams, Mays, Mantle, Koufax, Aarons, etc. of the bourbon world, people who REALLY know what they're talking about. My "whiskey sensei," who checks in here from time to time, is a member over there, and feeds me certain juicy tidbits of great information as he can.
 
I have a bottle of Hirsch 16 sitting in my liquor cabinet waiting for my birthday on the 17th to open it up. I wish I had seen this prior to buying the bottle. Oh well, here's hoping it's good... :?
 
Let us know. A good bottle of Hirsch 16 is the world's best bourbon. A great bottle of Hirsch 16 is even better. I've had the full range from one "bad" one to about 14 or so more that were all good to even better. Go for it, and get back to us with a review. I'm looking forward to it.
 
Thanks for taking the time to drop all the info on me Bloof. I'll stay away from the #1 but if I see any of the Vintage I'm jumping on a bottle of it. I can't imagine how good it is if you say it's better than the Pappy's. This stuff is so good it has a halo around the top of the bottle! :wink: