Yeah. From SV to me, in California, zone 7, they're quoting $21 for shipping a single bottle order. Wine Chateau only charged me $11.57 for shipping that same single bottle.
A worthwhile difference, I thought.
A worthwhile difference, I thought.
10 year old Evan Williams
- Thread starter jlmarta
- Start date
-
- Tags
- smokeasy wine & beer
Man, what a penalty!!! Too bad, because SV is one of the best internet booze sources around. Interesting, because two of the other best are in your state, and no longer shipping out of state. I know that SV's prohibitive shipping rates to your state have to have something to do with the distance, at least according to their way of thinking, but I'm wondering if it doesn't have more to do with the fear of getting caught between governments and consumers regarding taxation. In other words, being an accessory to liquor tax evasion.
I mean, another place in Jersey saves you almost a ten spot on shipping. Hmmmmmmmmmmm, curiouser and curiouser. I have to check out that place in Metuchen. How come they're not afraid? Probably because of inexperience in on line shipping, and they haven't been caught between that rock and hard place yet. Hmmmmmmmm.
I mean, another place in Jersey saves you almost a ten spot on shipping. Hmmmmmmmmmmm, curiouser and curiouser. I have to check out that place in Metuchen. How come they're not afraid? Probably because of inexperience in on line shipping, and they haven't been caught between that rock and hard place yet. Hmmmmmmmm.
Well, what do you know? Small world, indeed. That's the place I discovered about a year ago, and put in an order with six months ago. They put me through all this stuff regarding my card, and going back and forth on the phone with them for days, because my bank had mistakenly put a hold on my account. Finally cleared up the problem with the card, and Wine Chateau goes, oops, somebody should have told you, out of the three items you ordered, we only have one of them. Sorry, we should have never taken you through that without checking stock first. Really? Well, the lady I spoke to on the first day said that everything was in stock. Well, it's not, sorry.
That was the last time I'm doing business with Wine Chateau. Great prices, but their web site has incomplete listings, mistakes, and you don't take me through a four, five day merry go round like that, and then tell me oops, two out of three ain't in stock.
That was the last time I'm doing business with Wine Chateau. Great prices, but their web site has incomplete listings, mistakes, and you don't take me through a four, five day merry go round like that, and then tell me oops, two out of three ain't in stock.
Jlmarta, my delivery came earlier today. Unfortunately, I do not have a digital camera, but I have found a very nice review in an on line search, which I happen to agree with. Accompanying the review is a picture of a bottle of Evan Williams 1783. The picture is rather dark, but if you look closely you can see the big 10 Years Old above the 1783. This is identical to my bottle. It is also identical to bottles that I have had previously. I'd be interested to know what the differences are in your bottle.
http://www.liquorsnob.com/archives/2006 ... review.php
http://www.liquorsnob.com/archives/2006 ... review.php
Right. I've seen that review on Liquor Snob. There's also a fairly readable photo at SV (http://www.shoppersvineyard.com/evanwil ... 11931.html) that shows "10 Years Old" pretty clearly.
I'm beginning to wonder whether Heaven Hill Distillery is trying to pull the same crap that Jack Daniels did when they shifted from 90 proof to 86 proof and then to 80 proof without telling any of us. Could be that the 1783 isn't 10 years old any more but they just aren't telling us so.
I've had an e-mail in to the Marketing lady at Heaven Hill for a few days now, asking what the deal is and whether I bought a pig-in-a-poke with this "No. 10 Brand" stuff. So far she hasn't answered me but I'll be sure to pass along whatever I learn about it.
I'm beginning to wonder whether Heaven Hill Distillery is trying to pull the same crap that Jack Daniels did when they shifted from 90 proof to 86 proof and then to 80 proof without telling any of us. Could be that the 1783 isn't 10 years old any more but they just aren't telling us so.
I've had an e-mail in to the Marketing lady at Heaven Hill for a few days now, asking what the deal is and whether I bought a pig-in-a-poke with this "No. 10 Brand" stuff. So far she hasn't answered me but I'll be sure to pass along whatever I learn about it.
Well I checked the labels out on the 1873 Wed afternoon. I was stocking up the mini bar with Knob Creek for the trip to DC the next morning. Va has the stuff on sale this month. The label said 10 yrs old, the proof was 86. I would have sworn the it use to be 90 proof. I don't know what you got from the mail order place.
Thanks for your input. I can't speak to what the proof might have been in the past but what I received says 86 proof on the label.
Still no answer from the marketing lady at Heaven Hill. Maybe this week. Or maybe she's stonewalling me, not wanting to 'fess up to marketing stuff that may not be 10 years old any longer.
Time will tell, I guess.
Still no answer from the marketing lady at Heaven Hill. Maybe this week. Or maybe she's stonewalling me, not wanting to 'fess up to marketing stuff that may not be 10 years old any longer.
Time will tell, I guess.
No. People are getting confused here. Evan Williams 1783 bourbon, Va Gemmin, was never marketed as a 90 proof bourbon. Not too many Evan Williams bourbons are. Their Single Barrel Vintage series is also 86 proof. We're not trying to determine anything here but whether or not it is still ten years old.
From : Heaven Hill Marketing <hhdmarketing>
Sent : Monday, May 21, 2007 9:06 AM
To : "Joseph Marta" <jlmarta>
Subject : Re: A subscriber subscribed to Consumer Location from http://www.heaven-hill.com/contactus.shtml
| | | Inbox
Mr. Marta,
I'm sorry it has taken me a while to reply. No, this is still the same product I mentioned. Unfortunatly, because of small shortage, the bourbon in 1783 is 9-years-old. The most cost effective way to make the label change was to leave the "10" on there and call it our "No.10 bland". It is a bit younger, but I believe you will still find it quite comparable to the Evan Williams Single Barrel.
If there is anything else I can do for you, please let me know.
Sincerely,
Jessica Gilbert
----- Original Message ----- From: "Joseph Marta" <jlmarta>
To: <hhdmarketing>
Sent: Saturday, May 12, 2007 2:38 PM
Subject: Re: A subscriber subscribed to Consumer Location from http://www.heaven-hill.com/contactus.shtml
Ms. Gilbert,
I ordered a 750ml of the Evan Williams 1783 from a source in New Jersey, though not the one you recommended because of a difference in shipping costs. It arrived yesterday and I'm looking forward to tasting it.
I've noticed a difference in the labelling, however, and it arouses my curiosity. The photo of the bottle that appears on the webpage for Shoppers vineyard (the link you sent me) clearly shows that the label states "10 years old". The label on the bottle I received says instead "No. 10 Brand". Nowhere on the label or the neckband does it say anything at all about being 10 years old.
Is this a legitimate difference or did I buy a pig-in-a-poke? If the label and the product are legitimate, that might be a reason for lesser demand in California (or elsewhere) since a newcomer to the product would have no clue from simply reading the label that the product is 10 years old.
I hope what I bought is the real thing but as of now, I'm not sure. Thanks for any enlightenment you can offer.
Best Regards,
J. L. Marta
Good Morning!! Well, here it is, hot off the press (or my e-mail inbox) ....
The above question and answer are shown in reverse order since that's how my inbox works, but you can make sense of it, I'm sure. She says it's only 9 years old now. Hopefully this is a temporary situation and the "small shortage" will be corrected in the future.
Sent : Monday, May 21, 2007 9:06 AM
To : "Joseph Marta" <jlmarta>
Subject : Re: A subscriber subscribed to Consumer Location from http://www.heaven-hill.com/contactus.shtml
| | | Inbox
Mr. Marta,
I'm sorry it has taken me a while to reply. No, this is still the same product I mentioned. Unfortunatly, because of small shortage, the bourbon in 1783 is 9-years-old. The most cost effective way to make the label change was to leave the "10" on there and call it our "No.10 bland". It is a bit younger, but I believe you will still find it quite comparable to the Evan Williams Single Barrel.
If there is anything else I can do for you, please let me know.
Sincerely,
Jessica Gilbert
----- Original Message ----- From: "Joseph Marta" <jlmarta>
To: <hhdmarketing>
Sent: Saturday, May 12, 2007 2:38 PM
Subject: Re: A subscriber subscribed to Consumer Location from http://www.heaven-hill.com/contactus.shtml
Ms. Gilbert,
I ordered a 750ml of the Evan Williams 1783 from a source in New Jersey, though not the one you recommended because of a difference in shipping costs. It arrived yesterday and I'm looking forward to tasting it.
I've noticed a difference in the labelling, however, and it arouses my curiosity. The photo of the bottle that appears on the webpage for Shoppers vineyard (the link you sent me) clearly shows that the label states "10 years old". The label on the bottle I received says instead "No. 10 Brand". Nowhere on the label or the neckband does it say anything at all about being 10 years old.
Is this a legitimate difference or did I buy a pig-in-a-poke? If the label and the product are legitimate, that might be a reason for lesser demand in California (or elsewhere) since a newcomer to the product would have no clue from simply reading the label that the product is 10 years old.
I hope what I bought is the real thing but as of now, I'm not sure. Thanks for any enlightenment you can offer.
Best Regards,
J. L. Marta
Good Morning!! Well, here it is, hot off the press (or my e-mail inbox) ....
The above question and answer are shown in reverse order since that's how my inbox works, but you can make sense of it, I'm sure. She says it's only 9 years old now. Hopefully this is a temporary situation and the "small shortage" will be corrected in the future.
Don't look for the small shortage to be corrected in the future. The large scale changes that I mentioned in a previous post are happening all over the American whiskey industry. There simply isn't enough old to really old whiskey around to hold up certain labels any more. Distilleries are going through die offs, corporate takeovers, mergers and closings. Families have dwindled, and divisions of multinational giants have taken over many famous whiskey labels, once made from still to bottle by American families from generations ago.
Nine year old bourbon can have a distinctly different flavor than ten. I hope the bottle you got either isn't different, or if it is, then let it be a pleasant one. I guess I got one of the last ten year old bottles around. It's not impossible to find, even years after a product has been discontinued, a dusty bottle on a store shelf somewhere. A case in point is my No. 21, Wild Turkey Russell's Reserve, whose original 101 proof bottling can still be found at Warehouse Wines, 753 Broadway in Manhattan, right upstairs from the 'R' trains 8th Street stop.
Big changes continue in American whiskey, folks. That doesn't mean they're going to be bad ones, but as consumers we, our wallets and palates must be discerning and inquisitive.
Nine year old bourbon can have a distinctly different flavor than ten. I hope the bottle you got either isn't different, or if it is, then let it be a pleasant one. I guess I got one of the last ten year old bottles around. It's not impossible to find, even years after a product has been discontinued, a dusty bottle on a store shelf somewhere. A case in point is my No. 21, Wild Turkey Russell's Reserve, whose original 101 proof bottling can still be found at Warehouse Wines, 753 Broadway in Manhattan, right upstairs from the 'R' trains 8th Street stop.
Big changes continue in American whiskey, folks. That doesn't mean they're going to be bad ones, but as consumers we, our wallets and palates must be discerning and inquisitive.
Thanks very much to you and VaGentleman for your input and guidance. I guess this wraps up my quest for now but I'll check in from time to time to see what might be happenin' in the world of Bourbon.
I may post a note at LiquorSnob to let them know about the age difference. I haven't decided yet.
Thanks again, folks,
J. L. Marta
I may post a note at LiquorSnob to let them know about the age difference. I haven't decided yet.
Thanks again, folks,
J. L. Marta
I'd still be interested in hearing you come back and tell us about your tasting experiences on this one. I'll give you an example, which is public knowledge, so I'm not divulging anything that could cause a James Bond type of scenario here, about my Top Ten Rye list.
Here it is:
Top 10 Rye List
1. The Classic Cask 22 year
2. Van Winkle Family Reserve 13 year
3. The Classic Cask 21 year
4. Van Winkle Family Reserve 13 year (final release)
5. Sazerac 18 year
6. Old Potrero Straight Rye (90 proof)
7. Sazerac 7 year
8. Vintage 21 year
9. Vintage 23 year
10. Black Maple Hill 18 year
If you notice the list above, you'll see two particularities which apply directly to this discussion. The Classic Cask 22 and 21 year old rye whiskeys are obviously distinctly different to me, as although only a year apart, placed with another whiskey in between them on the above list. Indeed, although The Classic Cask 21 rye is a nice enough rye in its own right, only the original Van Winkle Family Reserve 13 year old can hope to compete with The Classic Cask 22 rye as my favorite all-round spirit ever.
And that brings us to the second item of notable interest on the list. There are two listings of the Van Winkle Family Reserve 13 year old rye. I have named the No. 4 rye on my list, "final release."
For those who have not been around here for a long time, I'm going to sort of revive an old discussion for the sake of our common interest in spirits, and indeed the world of spirits is fascinating, enriching, rewarding, and in the spirit of temperance and moderation, given to us for our enjoyment with responsibility.
The original Van Winkle Family Reserve 13 year old rye was released as such in bottles labeled with a number and followed by the letter "A." In subsequent years, as the whiskey was allowed to continue aging, it was released with the letters "B" and so forth. It eventually came to pass that the aging process was arrested at 19 years old, it was combined with another rye whiskey of the same age, and is still being released under the name Van Winkle Family Reserve 13 year old rye. The letter under which this, the "final release" began was, if memory serves me correctly, the letter "F."
Prior to the letter "F", this would have been the original Van Winkle Family Reserve 13 year old rye, released under the same label, but in fact aging to about 18 years or so in the process. From what I understand, this has to do with having to register new labels for each state, pay each state's licensing fees, etc., so why print new labels and go through all that expense and hassle every year?
I further understand that the proprietors of the label Van Winkle have begun processing of a new rye whiskey to be released under this mark when it reaches 13 years old, in order to have a steady supply of whiskey to be available for this label to remain part of the Van Winkle product stable.
So, the "final release" of the Van Winkle Family Reserve 13 year old rye was a different animal indeed, from the original whiskey selected to bear that name, which is why the same label, albeit two different whiskeys, occupy my Top Ten Rye list.
Here it is:
Top 10 Rye List
1. The Classic Cask 22 year
2. Van Winkle Family Reserve 13 year
3. The Classic Cask 21 year
4. Van Winkle Family Reserve 13 year (final release)
5. Sazerac 18 year
6. Old Potrero Straight Rye (90 proof)
7. Sazerac 7 year
8. Vintage 21 year
9. Vintage 23 year
10. Black Maple Hill 18 year
If you notice the list above, you'll see two particularities which apply directly to this discussion. The Classic Cask 22 and 21 year old rye whiskeys are obviously distinctly different to me, as although only a year apart, placed with another whiskey in between them on the above list. Indeed, although The Classic Cask 21 rye is a nice enough rye in its own right, only the original Van Winkle Family Reserve 13 year old can hope to compete with The Classic Cask 22 rye as my favorite all-round spirit ever.
And that brings us to the second item of notable interest on the list. There are two listings of the Van Winkle Family Reserve 13 year old rye. I have named the No. 4 rye on my list, "final release."
For those who have not been around here for a long time, I'm going to sort of revive an old discussion for the sake of our common interest in spirits, and indeed the world of spirits is fascinating, enriching, rewarding, and in the spirit of temperance and moderation, given to us for our enjoyment with responsibility.
The original Van Winkle Family Reserve 13 year old rye was released as such in bottles labeled with a number and followed by the letter "A." In subsequent years, as the whiskey was allowed to continue aging, it was released with the letters "B" and so forth. It eventually came to pass that the aging process was arrested at 19 years old, it was combined with another rye whiskey of the same age, and is still being released under the name Van Winkle Family Reserve 13 year old rye. The letter under which this, the "final release" began was, if memory serves me correctly, the letter "F."
Prior to the letter "F", this would have been the original Van Winkle Family Reserve 13 year old rye, released under the same label, but in fact aging to about 18 years or so in the process. From what I understand, this has to do with having to register new labels for each state, pay each state's licensing fees, etc., so why print new labels and go through all that expense and hassle every year?
I further understand that the proprietors of the label Van Winkle have begun processing of a new rye whiskey to be released under this mark when it reaches 13 years old, in order to have a steady supply of whiskey to be available for this label to remain part of the Van Winkle product stable.
So, the "final release" of the Van Winkle Family Reserve 13 year old rye was a different animal indeed, from the original whiskey selected to bear that name, which is why the same label, albeit two different whiskeys, occupy my Top Ten Rye list.
Well, I'm back and I really don't know what all the fuss was about. The 10 year-old Evan Williams that's really only 9 years old is OK but certainly nothing to write home about.
It's somewhat lighter, both in color and taste, a trifle smoother and has a bit more sweetness to it than the 7 year old stuff. Someone else's perception of it may differ but that's what I think about it.
For the difference in cost it isn't something I'll do again.
It's somewhat lighter, both in color and taste, a trifle smoother and has a bit more sweetness to it than the 7 year old stuff. Someone else's perception of it may differ but that's what I think about it.
For the difference in cost it isn't something I'll do again.
Too bad. I thought the 10 year old was great, but then again, I paid a "walk-out price" in the teens for mine. I haven't tried any from the new bottle, because I can't stomach bourbon or rye in the summer, but I'm sure it'll be okay.
Yeah, "Okay" is the operative word. And even for the difference between the 'walk-out' price and what I paid, I don't see it as all that much better than 7 year old Evan.
What it HAS done, though, is to thoroughly fertilize my curiosity now for some of those "higher taste profile" bourbons out there. My dearly beloved has promised me a bottle of Knob Creek for Father's Day so, as we say, "Life is good".
And, I'm like you, summertime is the time for tall, cool, vodka/tonics with a squeeze of lime.
What it HAS done, though, is to thoroughly fertilize my curiosity now for some of those "higher taste profile" bourbons out there. My dearly beloved has promised me a bottle of Knob Creek for Father's Day so, as we say, "Life is good".
And, I'm like you, summertime is the time for tall, cool, vodka/tonics with a squeeze of lime.
Yup. Can't fault those, either.
The camping club my wife and I belong to consists almost entirely of us retired folk who have entered geezerhood a while back and for some of our campouts we've bought a margarita maker called a "WaveMachine" that makes bodacious margaritas of any flavor as well as numerous other wondrous libations.
Don't know how we did without one for so long.
The camping club my wife and I belong to consists almost entirely of us retired folk who have entered geezerhood a while back and for some of our campouts we've bought a margarita maker called a "WaveMachine" that makes bodacious margaritas of any flavor as well as numerous other wondrous libations.
Don't know how we did without one for so long.
Wow. An automatic Margarita Maker. That's, that's, . . .
I have a feeling the world is complete now.
Seriously, that thing belongs right next to the home espresso/cappuccino maker!!! No home could be complete without one. As for that seven year old Evan Williams, I'm not too familiar with it, never had it, and don't have much familiarity with the Evan Williams label at all. I do believe though, from my shopping searches, that the Evan Williams 7 year is meant to be an upscale bourbon on the label, while the 1783 is supposed to be bargain basement, college kid, mixing bourbon kind of stuff.
Well, the 1783 sure made this old goat very happy straight up, no rocks, no nothing. Maybe one day I'll have to do some more exploring of the Evan Williams line. I tried one or two of the single barrel offerings a long time ago, wasn't impressed, but then again, it's not a high priced bourbon, so it wasn't like the expectations were sky high.
Enjoy that Knob Creek, JL, after 83 bourbons over almost eight years, it's still No. 19 to me. But don't stop there, Knob Creek isn't meant to be "upscale" either.
I have a feeling the world is complete now.
Seriously, that thing belongs right next to the home espresso/cappuccino maker!!! No home could be complete without one. As for that seven year old Evan Williams, I'm not too familiar with it, never had it, and don't have much familiarity with the Evan Williams label at all. I do believe though, from my shopping searches, that the Evan Williams 7 year is meant to be an upscale bourbon on the label, while the 1783 is supposed to be bargain basement, college kid, mixing bourbon kind of stuff.
Well, the 1783 sure made this old goat very happy straight up, no rocks, no nothing. Maybe one day I'll have to do some more exploring of the Evan Williams line. I tried one or two of the single barrel offerings a long time ago, wasn't impressed, but then again, it's not a high priced bourbon, so it wasn't like the expectations were sky high.
Enjoy that Knob Creek, JL, after 83 bourbons over almost eight years, it's still No. 19 to me. But don't stop there, Knob Creek isn't meant to be "upscale" either.
Joined Feb 2005
2K Posts | 0+
Cedar Key
Looks like I'll have to make a trip to the local liquor store and see if they still have the 10 yr old 1783 - if so, I'll be cleaning them out!
Knob Creek is the next bourbon on my go to list (my go to list also incorporates price into the equation).
Still have to try some of the ones on Bloof's list (won't get them all as I don't have the spare $$$ for some of the pricier ones!)
Right now though, I'm enjoying a nice glass of gin - I think I'll start a thread on that!
Knob Creek is the next bourbon on my go to list (my go to list also incorporates price into the equation).
Still have to try some of the ones on Bloof's list (won't get them all as I don't have the spare $$$ for some of the pricier ones!)
Right now though, I'm enjoying a nice glass of gin - I think I'll start a thread on that!
Well, Bloof, as I said in the beginning of this thread, I'm kinda new to these "better" bourbons but so far, my experience with single barrel boozes has made a believer out of me. While one barrel might be wonderful, another might be pretty crappy in comparison. I think it all depends on the taster's mood and/or condition of his/her tastebuds on the day of tasting. In that regard, at least, I've 'been there, done that' and I won't waste my time on any single barrels in the future. I'm not enough of a bourbon snob that I'll shun blended bourbon such as the 7 year old Evan Williams.
And being a newcomer I know there are a heckuva bunch of other blended sour mash bourbons out there that I haven't tried yet but I will when I can.
To my taste, 7 year Evan tastes slightly better than Jack Daniels for about half the price. Whenever I can find a brand where I can improve on the taste/price ratio I plan to go for it.
A note to Cybrus - I also plan to try as many on Bloof's list as my budget will allow. They sound pretty good. Also, when buying the 1783, watch for the "10 Years Old" label or you'll get the 9 year stuff.
And being a newcomer I know there are a heckuva bunch of other blended sour mash bourbons out there that I haven't tried yet but I will when I can.
To my taste, 7 year Evan tastes slightly better than Jack Daniels for about half the price. Whenever I can find a brand where I can improve on the taste/price ratio I plan to go for it.
A note to Cybrus - I also plan to try as many on Bloof's list as my budget will allow. They sound pretty good. Also, when buying the 1783, watch for the "10 Years Old" label or you'll get the 9 year stuff.