I recently saw the new Cohiba brand at my local shop. They have a label similar to the Cuban brand with the exception of "Dominican Republic" on them. I was told these are the result of the lawsuit against General Cigar for the name. I'm a big fan of the red dot's, but I'm reluctant to try these new ones. Has anyone had any of them? Any impressions?
"New Cohibas"
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I wonder if they are the same as the ones I tried a couple years back. They were mild and had a grassy or hay taste. They were ok for doing chores in the yard, but I wouldn't have picked them up had it not been for a huge discount.
CC, that didn't even cross my mind. I just remember at the time that my local was saying that they were being discontinued, so I was just curious whether or not it was the same factory in the DR putting out the "new" ones, and if they are the same "bundled" quality.
Those are not a result of the lawsuit. In fact they aren't even made by General Cigar. See, when Castro came into power, he nationalized tobacco manufacturing. When he did, a lot of the rollers, growers, and owners of rights left Cuba. Castro however continued the production of the Cuban Cohiba brand, just with less experienced workers and without the rights.
The settlers soon started to grow tobacco and make cigars. First it wasn't a problem to use Cuban leaves but then the US placed an embargo on Cuban products and since the US was such a big consumer they had to use local and other leaves. The owners of the copyrights naturally used the brand names they owned even though the cigars they made were nothing like those that they had produced in Cuba. Later, through a series of purchases and mergers, the brand name Cohiba produced in the Dominican Republic was purchased by the General Cigar company. However apparently there was some confusion and not all of the copyrights were bought out. One such copyright was for cigars manufactured in the Domincan Republic for sale only in the Dominican Republic.
This led to a third brand that was called Cohiba but could only be sold in the Dominican. Some of these cigars were imported to the US under that name. They are manufactured at a factory called 'Montecristi' in the Dominican Republic. When these cigars started coming into the US, General Cigar sought court action based on copyright infringement. They won the case but the judge ruled that any cigars that were already imported could be sold. No new imports, however, would be allowed.
The settlers soon started to grow tobacco and make cigars. First it wasn't a problem to use Cuban leaves but then the US placed an embargo on Cuban products and since the US was such a big consumer they had to use local and other leaves. The owners of the copyrights naturally used the brand names they owned even though the cigars they made were nothing like those that they had produced in Cuba. Later, through a series of purchases and mergers, the brand name Cohiba produced in the Dominican Republic was purchased by the General Cigar company. However apparently there was some confusion and not all of the copyrights were bought out. One such copyright was for cigars manufactured in the Domincan Republic for sale only in the Dominican Republic.
This led to a third brand that was called Cohiba but could only be sold in the Dominican. Some of these cigars were imported to the US under that name. They are manufactured at a factory called 'Montecristi' in the Dominican Republic. When these cigars started coming into the US, General Cigar sought court action based on copyright infringement. They won the case but the judge ruled that any cigars that were already imported could be sold. No new imports, however, would be allowed.
iminaquagmire said:
I was under the impression that Cohiba was a post-revolution introduction. (late 60's)
Joined Oct 2005
2K Posts | 1+
Lost in translation
I thought that anyone in the dominican republic could use the Cohiba name as it is not trade marked there.
There may be some confussion here. The families that started brands like punch and partagas sold their rights to general cigar. They are legal grounds there becuase Castro did not own the brands, the court ruled that the families did. When the embargo lifts I imagine general cigar will claim they own the rights to cuban cigars being sold under the same name in the US.
Cohiba was post revolution. Cuban trademarks mean squat in the US as the court recently ruled in favor of General Cigar becuase we really dont recognize Cuban anything. General cigar simply picked up the trademark for US distribution.
On a side note, the Cohiba in question in this thread is in fact a counterfit Dominican. The only true Cohiba that can be legally sold in the US is either the red dot or the XV. There is no other type of Cohiba made. There is an off chance that it is the original blend that was not the red dot, but that would make the cigar more than 15 years old which would be unlikely. I am not saying it is a bad cigar, it could be the best cigar in the world. But who ever is making it is breaking the law using the trademarked name.
Cohiba was post revolution. Cuban trademarks mean squat in the US as the court recently ruled in favor of General Cigar becuase we really dont recognize Cuban anything. General cigar simply picked up the trademark for US distribution.
On a side note, the Cohiba in question in this thread is in fact a counterfit Dominican. The only true Cohiba that can be legally sold in the US is either the red dot or the XV. There is no other type of Cohiba made. There is an off chance that it is the original blend that was not the red dot, but that would make the cigar more than 15 years old which would be unlikely. I am not saying it is a bad cigar, it could be the best cigar in the world. But who ever is making it is breaking the law using the trademarked name.
"General Cigars won a legal battle against the distributors of Montecristi’s Cohiba" as quoted from another internet retailer.
There is no way to tell, since fake Cohibas have been made in so many places. Apparently, Montecristi in DR has been producing fake Cohibas for several years, only recently adding the 'Republica Dominicana' to the band. So it could be.axegod75 said:
I apparently should have just waited for Alex to answer this--internet sources suck.
Yes we are talking about the white dotted banded Cohibas. But unless Chris' shop sells Cubans we're specifically talking about the ones that say Dominican Republic on them. Those are the ones made by Montecristi.
I guess it could be considered a counterfeit cuban. But according to all of the sources I could find (and remember my last ones sucked) Montecristi originally manufactured it for distribution in the dominican but some of it got imported here. General had the rights in the US so they filed suit. However they lost after the Judge ruled that once imported, the cigars could remain on the shelves. I'll ask my shop's owner wher he gets them.
Yes we are talking about the white dotted banded Cohibas. But unless Chris' shop sells Cubans we're specifically talking about the ones that say Dominican Republic on them. Those are the ones made by Montecristi.
I guess it could be considered a counterfeit cuban. But according to all of the sources I could find (and remember my last ones sucked) Montecristi originally manufactured it for distribution in the dominican but some of it got imported here. General had the rights in the US so they filed suit. However they lost after the Judge ruled that once imported, the cigars could remain on the shelves. I'll ask my shop's owner wher he gets them.
Ok, so are like the Red Dots authentic Cohiba, or knock-offs? I was planning on picking up a few this weekend...
That is a loaded question there Syntax. I guess it boils down to whether you recognize the DR Cohiba to have anything to do with the name Cohiba. I think as was stated earlier in the thread the red dot and the xv labels are general cigar products and therefore would be "authentic cohiba" cigars. Many don't recognize anything but the cuban cohiba and anything General Cigar puts out doesn't come close.
So in that mind set, then the Bolivar that GC produces, is not the same brand that is found in Cuba?
Bolivar is another example of General Cigars trademark use. Since Cuban copyrights don't mean anything in the US, General just takes them for products sold in the US.
Red Dots and XV cigars are genuine Cohibas. Just not cuban ones.
The term red dot only refers to the red dot in the center of the o in Cohiba. These in my opinion are a waste of money. XV's are a different animal and are one of my favorites.
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FYI, as of 1998 these were the cigars with cuban names being manufactured in the US by companies without consent and their makers and tobaccos used.
Bolivar
General Cigar
Dominican Rep.
Cifuentes
General Cigar
Jamaica
Cohiba
General Cigar
Dominican Rep.
El Rey del Mundo
General Cigar
Honduras
Fonseca
MATASA
Dominican Rep.
Gispert
Tabacalera SA
Honduras
H. Upmann
Consolidated Cigar
Dominican Rep.
Henry Clay
Consolidated Cigar
Dominican Rep.
Hoyo de Monterrey
General Cigar
Honduras
La Gloria
El Credito
Dominican Rep.
Montecristo
Consolidated Cigar
Dominican Rep.
Partagas
General Cigar
Dominican Rep.
Por Larrañaga
Consolidated Cigar
Dominican Rep.
Punch
General Cigar
Honduras
Ramon
General Cigar
Dominican Rep.
Romeo y Julieta
Tabacalera SA
Dominican Rep.
Saint Luis Rey
Tabacalera SA
Honduras
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A very interesting link on the topic.
http://www.american.edu/TED/cigar-trade.htm
Red Dots and XV cigars are genuine Cohibas. Just not cuban ones.
The term red dot only refers to the red dot in the center of the o in Cohiba. These in my opinion are a waste of money. XV's are a different animal and are one of my favorites.
________________________________
FYI, as of 1998 these were the cigars with cuban names being manufactured in the US by companies without consent and their makers and tobaccos used.
Bolivar
General Cigar
Dominican Rep.
Cifuentes
General Cigar
Jamaica
Cohiba
General Cigar
Dominican Rep.
El Rey del Mundo
General Cigar
Honduras
Fonseca
MATASA
Dominican Rep.
Gispert
Tabacalera SA
Honduras
H. Upmann
Consolidated Cigar
Dominican Rep.
Henry Clay
Consolidated Cigar
Dominican Rep.
Hoyo de Monterrey
General Cigar
Honduras
La Gloria
El Credito
Dominican Rep.
Montecristo
Consolidated Cigar
Dominican Rep.
Partagas
General Cigar
Dominican Rep.
Por Larrañaga
Consolidated Cigar
Dominican Rep.
Punch
General Cigar
Honduras
Ramon
General Cigar
Dominican Rep.
Romeo y Julieta
Tabacalera SA
Dominican Rep.
Saint Luis Rey
Tabacalera SA
Honduras
--------------------------------------------------
A very interesting link on the topic.
http://www.american.edu/TED/cigar-trade.htm
Interesting list Quag. Things have changed a little since '98, Cifuentes and Henry Clay are not being made in Cuba. Several other names are being used now. I threw this together, maybe others can add to it.
Cuban brands (32):
Belinda
Bolívar
Cabañas
Cohíba
Cuaba
Diplomáticos
Fonseca
Gispert
H Upmann
Hoyo de Monterrey
José L. Piedra
Juan López
La Flor de Cano
La Gloria Cubana
Los Statos de Luxe
Montecristo
Partagás
Por Larrañaga
Punch
Rafael González
Ramón Allones
Rey del Mundo
Romeo y Julieta
Saint Luis Rey
San Cristóbal de la Habana
Sancho Panza
Trinidad
Troya
Quay D' Orsay
Quintero
Vegas Robaina
Vegueros
General Cigar duplicates(11):
Belinda
Bolivar
Cohiba
El Rey del Mundo
Hoyo de Monterrey
La Gloria Cubana
Partagas
Punch
Rafael Gonzalez
Ramon Allones
Sancho Panza
Altadis duplicates(9):
Gispert
H. Upmann
Juan Lopez
Montecristo
Por Larranaga
Quintero
Romeo y Julieta
Saint Luis Rey
Trinidad
MATASA duplicate(1):
Fonseca
Duplicates by others (1?):
Cabanas y Carbajal (Nicaragua)
Cuban brands (32):
Belinda
Bolívar
Cabañas
Cohíba
Cuaba
Diplomáticos
Fonseca
Gispert
H Upmann
Hoyo de Monterrey
José L. Piedra
Juan López
La Flor de Cano
La Gloria Cubana
Los Statos de Luxe
Montecristo
Partagás
Por Larrañaga
Punch
Rafael González
Ramón Allones
Rey del Mundo
Romeo y Julieta
Saint Luis Rey
San Cristóbal de la Habana
Sancho Panza
Trinidad
Troya
Quay D' Orsay
Quintero
Vegas Robaina
Vegueros
General Cigar duplicates(11):
Belinda
Bolivar
Cohiba
El Rey del Mundo
Hoyo de Monterrey
La Gloria Cubana
Partagas
Punch
Rafael Gonzalez
Ramon Allones
Sancho Panza
Altadis duplicates(9):
Gispert
H. Upmann
Juan Lopez
Montecristo
Por Larranaga
Quintero
Romeo y Julieta
Saint Luis Rey
Trinidad
MATASA duplicate(1):
Fonseca
Duplicates by others (1?):
Cabanas y Carbajal (Nicaragua)