# Can we put the "New Letters" behind us?



## ColdCuts (Jul 21, 2006)

Of all the rotten luck. After putting in half a year at CS, and trying to make worthwhile contributions to these boards, I _finally_ got the name of a vendor that seemed trustworthy.  I began fantasizing about my first purchase, considering all the possibilities, when another thoughtful gorilla brought the "New Letters" to my attention and suggested I steer clear of that very same vendor.

Now I've read the stickies (yes, all of 'em), some of them more than once. I consider myself kinda "street smart" (web smart?) about Habanos, but the reality is, I've only smoked a handful so far. In Feb '05, on the Sources For Cuban Cigars thread, a self-proclaimed newbie called colgate said, "if you don't travel [abroad], you shouldn't be in the [Habanos] game." Other gorillas, on other threads, have said, 'if you can't do the time (or pay the fine), don't do the crime.' What I'm trying to figure out is, should I really just give up on the dream of having a box of genuine Habanos aging in my humi one day?

I'm willing to take some light risk to acquire difficult to get, highly coveted smokes, but I'm just a college student. I _don't_ travel. I'm _not_ (nor will I be for the foreseeable future) able to comfortably shoulder the loss of hundreds of dollars. So, considering the advent of the New Letters, is the Habanos game really just too high-stakes for a guy like me? Should I resign myself to NCs, and never look back? What's your :2 TIA and Happy Holidays! :w


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## davidlei (Nov 26, 2006)

Hey, I'm new to ISOMs as well and am also a college student. Send me a PM, I can try to answer any questions you might have.


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## PaulMac (Jul 15, 2003)

ColdCuts said:


> I'm _not_ (nor will I be for the foreseeable future) able to comfortably shoulder the loss of hundreds of dollars.


Just keep in mind its only a couple hundred dollars if a box gets nabbed, if you get nabbed the amount of money is a good bit greater. Not trying to be a scaremonger, just wanna make sure you know all the ramifications.


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## Airborne RU (Oct 7, 2006)

PM sent.


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## JPH (Jun 30, 2006)

Try to get in on a box split or something.


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## punch (Mar 5, 2005)

Ask yourself why you want them. If you really think the Habanos are that much better than the better NC cigars and you just have to have them, pony up and go for it. You have to weigh the risk vs the benefit. For my part, getting a letter from the Feds would cost me my security clearance and my job. I know because one of my jobs is defending employees of my company who have lost their security clearance. I'm sorry, but for my part, taking the risk of an overseas order and interception from customs is simply not worth it when I find that there are multiple NC cigars that I like as much or more than the Cubans that I have tried (and I can afford them). On the other hand, this has never stopped me from buying or being given a few Cuban cigars from people that I know (some, unbelievably, in law enforcement). As you become more involved in the world of cigars, you will find sources (even locally) that you never expected. Be reasonable; if the government has failed in stopping illegal drugs, terrorists, weapons, and aliens from coming into the country, they don't stand a prayer against cigars. But like any illegal, and therefore unregulated enterprise, the buyer MUST beware.

All of life is a matter of weighing risks, consequences and benefits. And for each person, the equation is unique. From my standpoint, your situation should in no way prevent you from enjoying a good Havana, and I think you will find this out. I know the draconian environemnt that I operate in has not stopped me. I just have to be more carefull and descrete about it.


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## poker (Dec 11, 1997)

I agree. Its about if you are willing to take the risk. For some, the risk is worth it, for others its not. Its a personal choice.


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## Demented (Nov 7, 2006)

punch said:


> Ask yourself why you want them. If you really think the Habanos are that much better than the better NC cigars and you just have to have them, pony up and go for it. You have to weigh the risk vs the benefit... taking the risk of an overseas order and interception from customs is simply not worth it... As you become more involved in the world of cigars, you will find sources (even locally) that you never expected... buyer MUST beware.
> 
> All of life is a matter of weighing risks, consequences and benefits. And for each person, the equation is unique. From my standpoint, your situation should in no way prevent you from enjoying a good Havana, and I think you will find this out.


In my opinion, this is the best advice I have read on this topic, period! Thoughtful and well written.

Punch, stated&#8230; You will find sources even locally.

It's been 5 years since my source went away, I know there are others out there and it's only a matter of time before I find another.

Dmntd


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## Terrasco (Nov 26, 2006)

punch said:


> Ask yourself why you want them. If you really think the Habanos are that much better than the better NC cigars and you just have to have them, pony up and go for it. You have to weigh the risk vs the benefit. For my part, getting a letter from the Feds would cost me my security clearance and my job. I know because one of my jobs is defending employees of my company who have lost their security clearance. I'm sorry, but for my part, taking the risk of an overseas order and interception from customs is simply not worth it when I find that there are multiple NC cigars that I like as much or more than the Cubans that I have tried (and I can afford them). On the other hand, this has never stopped me from buying or being given a few Cuban cigars from people that I know (some, unbelievably, in law enforcement). As you become more involved in the world of cigars, you will find sources (even locally) that you never expected. Be reasonable; if the government has failed in stopping illegal drugs, terrorists, weapons, and aliens from coming into the country, they don't stand a prayer against cigars. But like any illegal, and therefore unregulated enterprise, the buyer MUST beware.
> 
> All of life is a matter of weighing risks, consequences and benefits. And for each person, the equation is unique. From my standpoint, your situation should in no way prevent you from enjoying a good Havana, and I think you will find this out. I know the draconian environemnt that I operate in has not stopped me. I just have to be more carefull and descrete about it.


Definitely good advice. It is a personal choice. Habanos are excellent cigars, some of the best in the world. There are also excellent cigars available domestically. Weigh the risk and make an informed decision. It is an illegal transaction and there are some risks. If you anticipate a career in government service or a defense related industry, it might be a bad choice. That being said, I know a USDA inspector that is a huge pothead. He just hasn't been caught.


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## Gargamel (Nov 8, 2004)

Whoever said box splits is right on. Box splits are perfect for the budding Havana smoker. Many things are accomplished with this play. You have the advantage of trying different smokes without having to blow your wad on a box of smokes you may not like. If you aren't the one coordinating the split, all you have to do is send out some cash sit back and wait for a package to show up...ahhh no real responsibility. Put the responsibility in the hands of a mature gorilla who knows what he's doing. You just might be surprised when you find out the 10'er you purchased is from 02 and are ripe for smoking instead of fresh off the farm.

It's a well known fact (in most cases) that the new Havana smoker is of the instant satisfaction variety (I was). So what happens when you decide to blow your wad on a box of RASS from Sept of 06? They arrive you let them sit for a few days before smoking only to find out they they sting your nose and aren't really enjoyable at all. You just spent your money on sticks that will taste good 3-5 years down the road...but what about today?...bummer. You've always got those gars sitting in your humi that ain't quite scratching the itch.

Fire up a box split. You don't have to coordinate it. Just bring it up on the board. I've both coordinated and just put the idea out there on various box splits. They all went down without a hitch. Throw the bait out there and see who takes it....you'll be surprised. There's a couple gorillas who post here that go out of their way to get Havanas to the newer monkeys. A word of caution, know the person you are dealing with in fact gets the goods. A high ring gauge or trader rating isn't necessarily enough these days. I was active in trades both here and on another board and I received a fair amount of fakes from trustworthy people. 

Another tip if you want a box for yourself, new and now, go with the Trinidad Reyes. These cigars young are delightful and will only improve. They are a wee bit pricey but well worth it IMO. 

My 500th post and I'm sticking to it.


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## Even Steven (Dec 15, 2006)

Gargamel said:


> Whoever said box splits is right on. Box splits are perfect for the budding Havana smoker. Many things are accomplished with this play. You have the advantage of trying different smokes without having to blow your wad on a box of smokes you may not like. If you aren't the one coordinating the split, all you have to do is send out some cash sit back and wait for a package to show up...ahhh no real responsibility. Put the responsibility in the hands of a mature gorilla who knows what he's doing. You just might be surprised when you find out the 10'er you purchased is from 02 and are ripe for smoking instead of fresh off the farm.
> 
> It's a well known fact (in most cases) that the new Havana smoker is of the instant satisfaction variety (I was). So what happens when you decide to blow your wad on a box of RASS from Sept of 06? They arrive you let them sit for a few days before smoking only to find out they they sting your nose and aren't really enjoyable at all. You just spent your money on sticks that will taste good 3-5 years down the road...but what about today?...bummer. You've always got those gars sitting in your humi that ain't quite scratching the itch.
> 
> ...


Box splits are a very good idea but make sure you read this first 
http://www.clubstogie.com/vb/showthread.php?t=8698
I'm not too sure if the above applies to this box split, just becareful.


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## LSUTIGER (Jan 13, 2004)

There are plenty of people that post in and watch the box split thread - just waiting to get in on some Habanos, but rarely do. Most box splits are gone very fast. 

I don't know any gorillas that would buy a box of Habanos just so someone else could get a fiver or two. Getting in on Habanos box splits are not as easy as you make it sound.


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## ResIpsa (Mar 8, 2006)

While I want to be helpful, I'm really not sure what your question is here. 

"Can We Put the New Letters Behind Us?" Ummmm.....NOOOOOO.......has there been an end to the embargo? 

Buying cuban cigars is illegal for US citizens, so as long as that remains the case, the risk remains, period 

If you want to get in on box splits My advice is to get to know some of the folks around here and form a group of people willing to join together, don't wait or count on something happenning in the box split thread Be willing to shoulder some of the risk and burdens of placing the orders and shipping to the other split participants.

Most of the splits the established gorillas do here are done quietly, behind the scenes and you'll never know about them. These are done by groups of friends who have come to know and trust one another, and who share the risks and burdens that go along with obtaining cuban cigars. Develop some of these relationships yourself, the new friends you'll make alone is worth the effort. Go to herfs, they are a prime opportunity to meet up with others who share our hobby and you can get to know some folks

Some people don't mind taking the risks and like running splits,try getting to know some of them and hopefully they will include you on some of their splits,. It gives them an opportunity to develop a relationship with their vendors. That relationship then itself pays dividends when you can count on that vendor to offer you rare/hard to find cigars. 

Personally, I think it's a little presumptuous and unfair to expect others to take the risks and burdens all of the time while I just hang back and take my share of a box split. That's not meant to be offensive to anyone here, it's intended to give people something to think about, You want in on box splits, be proactive, organize one. You'll get to know some folks, and sow the seeds for future splits


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## Gargamel (Nov 8, 2004)

LSUTIGER said:


> There are plenty of people that post in and watch the box split thread - just waiting to get in on some Habanos, but rarely do. Most box splits are gone very fast.
> 
> *I don't know any gorillas that would buy a box of Habanos just so someone else could get a fiver or two*. Getting in on Habanos box splits are not as easy as you make it sound.


You know one here. On more than one occasion I have bought boxes to do splits and get some Havanas out there. I know of a couple others who have done it as well.

I guess things have changed around here...maybe a little. Well the original poster has been taken care of. Box splits aren't necessarily always posted. Over time, certain gorillas befriend other gorillas and things happen.


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## punch (Mar 5, 2005)

ResIpsa said:


> Personally, I think it's a little presumptuous and unfair to expect others to take the risks and burdens all of the time while I just hang back and take my share of a box split. That's not meant to be offensive to anyone here, it's intended to give people something to think about, You want in on box splits, be proactive, organize one. You'll get to know some folks, and sow the seeds for future splits


You have written exactly what I was thinking. Several times I have thought about PMing one of the "known" hitters here and asking them to make a purchase for me. I like testing cigars and have three volumes (two nearly full) of my cigar research. It is part of my obsesive compulsive nature. However, I never could in clear concience ask someone else to take a risk for me regarding what I consider to be a hobby. There would be nothing worse for me than to know that the one time one of the generous individuals here got into real trouble was when they were doing me a favor. I would rather do without and wait for the opportunities as they arise. Maybe I am looking at this wrong, or perhaps I am a bit old fashioned. But I am in agreement with you here, including the part about not wanting to be offensive. This is really something to think about because the people who send out these bombs and organize these trades are not criminals in the sense of a drug pusher or illegal arms dealer (except in the minds of our beaurocrats). Many do it at no profit for themselves. I would feel differently if they were doing this for profit since risk is part of doing business.


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## icehog3 (Feb 20, 2005)

Insightful post Vic. Often I see someone post "If anyone is doing a box split, PM me!". I am inlikely to PM anyone for a box split unless we have had some other type of interaction here previously. JMHO.


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## Bigwaved (May 20, 2006)

icehog3 said:


> Insightful post Vic. Often I see someone post "If anyone is doing a box split, PM me!". I am inlikely to PM anyone for a box split unless we have had some other type of interaction here previously. JMHO.


Like Kwagga, for instance...just kiddin' big guy.


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## icehog3 (Feb 20, 2005)

Bigwaved said:


> Like Kwagga, for instance...just kiddin' big guy.


I'd do a split with him...but it might be his lip.


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## Gargamel (Nov 8, 2004)

I feel as if my post was taken out of context here. I don't like that. There's no need to point out a thread to me that's been here for years...I was here when Mo originally posted it. Did I break a rule here? The point in my post was simply to let someone who knows what they are doing, introduce a newbie to this world. If you've never made a purchase before, I don't recommend jumping in with your own split. That could turn ugly quick. I said "bring it up". I was simply giving advice to a new guy. There's nothing wrong with putting up a post saying "Anyone interested in splitting a box of_______". Conversation takes place through PM and things are worked out. 

When I say the "Responsibility" I am referring to the responsibility that comes along with making an "Informed" purchase. Let's not take the word responsibility and swap it out for "risk". No where in my post did I infer that the new guy should sit back and wait for his Havanas at cost while letting someone else shoulder the risk. I don't like being misquoted or condescended. 

:sb 

Merry Christmas!


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## icehog3 (Feb 20, 2005)

Gargamel said:


> I feel as if my post was taken out of context here. I don't like that. There's no need to point out a thread to me that's been here for years...I was here when Mo originally posted it. Did I break a rule here? The point in my post was simply to let someone who knows what they are doing, introduce a newbie to this world. If you've never made a purchase before, I don't recommend jumping in with your own split. That could turn ugly quick. I said "bring it up". I was simply giving advice to a new guy. There's nothing wrong with putting up a post saying "Anyone interested in splitting a box of_______". Conversation takes place through PM and things are worked out.
> 
> When I say the "Responsibility" I am referring to the responsibility that comes along with making an "Informed" purchase. Let's not take the word responsibility and swap it out for "risk". No where in my post did I infer that the new guy should sit back and wait for his Havanas at cost while letting someone else shoulder the risk. I don't like being misquoted or condescended.
> 
> ...


I hope my post wasn't one of the ones that offended you, because that sincerely was not my intent. Just putting in my 1 1/2 cents worth.

Regards, Tom


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## Gargamel (Nov 8, 2004)

icehog3 said:


> I hope my post wasn't one of the ones that offended you, because that sincerely was not my intent. Just putting in my 1 1/2 cents worth.
> 
> Regards, Tom


Not at all Hog


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## ResIpsa (Mar 8, 2006)

Gargamel said:


> I feel as if my post was taken out of context here. I don't like that. There's no need to point out a thread to me that's been here for years...I was here when Mo originally posted it. Did I break a rule here? The point in my post was simply to let someone who knows what they are doing, introduce a newbie to this world. If you've never made a purchase before, I don't recommend jumping in with your own split. That could turn ugly quick. I said "bring it up". I was simply giving advice to a new guy. There's nothing wrong with putting up a post saying "Anyone interested in splitting a box of_______". Conversation takes place through PM and things are worked out.
> 
> When I say the "Responsibility" I am referring to the responsibility that comes along with making an "Informed" purchase. Let's not take the word responsibility and swap it out for "risk". No where in my post did I infer that the new guy should sit back and wait for his Havanas at cost while letting someone else shoulder the risk. I don't like being misquoted or condescended.
> 
> ...


don't know who you're referring to here or what you're upset about, no one who I can see quoted you

merry christmas to all, and to all a good night!


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## ColdCuts (Jul 21, 2006)

ResIpsa said:


> don't know who you're referring to here or what you're upset about, no one who I can see quoted you


I think it was post #11.


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## LasciviousXXX (Oct 12, 2004)

Here's my 2 cents for what its worth (probably only about half a cent):

I've done a crap load of box splits, I've participated in as well as hosted many box splits. They're fun when you're just starting out and even when you're a little deeper into the game because you are able to try things you normally wouldn't be able to afford.

Personally, if it wasn't for some established guys jumping in to help me out when I was a newb, I doubt I would have made the transition to the wonderful world of Habanos as easy. In my opinion, its up to the elder gorrilla to take a newbie he thinks is deserving under his wing and teach him the ropes a bit. I've done that to PLENTY of people because it was done to me as well.

I realize that at the moment everyone is super vigilant but the kindness and generosity of the Jungle will always come through. Its no surprise that the original poster is already taken care of. I'm sure someone with some experience jumped in to help a newb get started on his path.

XXX


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## punch (Mar 5, 2005)

icehog3 said:


> I hope my post wasn't one of the ones that offended you, because that sincerely was not my intent. Just putting in my 1 1/2 cents worth.
> 
> Regards, Tom


Same here. I thought ResIpsa made a very good point and I simply wanted to let people know that he is not the only one who feels that way.

Gargamel, you've been here a long time so I am sure that you have seen your share of what we are talking about. Fortunately, this place seems to get rid of moochers pretty fast. On the other hand, your post came right after some of us were talking about risk, and you posted this:

" If you aren't the one coordinating the split, all you have to do is send out some cash sit back and wait for a package to show up...*ahhh no real responsibility*. Put the responsibility in the hands of a mature gorilla who knows what he's doing. "

It is easy to see where some misunderstanding could take place. I have to admit that after reading your post the first time, this is exactly the way that I took it: "send some cash and let some other sucker get caught." However, after looking at your length of time on this board, I believed that this is was not what you intended and did not comment on it. However, after ResIpsa posted his thoughts, I began to wonder if I was the only one who upon first reading took your words wrongly. Moreso, would this send the wrong signal to someone else? Anyway, that was the spirit which I posted my response. If this caused you grief, I am sincerely sorry. There have been several times on this and other forums where what I was thinking and what I typed were taken as completely opposite. I know how I feel when that happens, and I hope that I have not caused this feeling in you. Please accept my appology.


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## LasciviousXXX (Oct 12, 2004)

Methinks what Gargamel was trying to say was that starting out as a new gorilla its better to let one of the more mature gorilla's lead the way in the beginning. Over time as friendships are formulated and trust is earned the newb can learn many things from the elder and eventually start doing their own thing.

IMO, box splits are the way to go for any newb. I really don't think that they are that hard to get involved in and its easy to maintain good relationships when doing one. If someone drops the ball, well then the Jungle will be made aware and that person more than likely either won't be here any more or won't be traded with,etc anymore.


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## decesaro (Jan 31, 2006)

ResIpsa said:


> If you want to get in on box splits My advice is to get to know some of the folks around here and form a group of people willing to join together, don't wait or count on something happenning in the box split thread Be willing to shoulder some of the risk and burdens of placing the orders and shipping to the other split participants.


Great Advice .... enough said


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## Gargamel (Nov 8, 2004)

LasciviousXXX said:


> Methinks what Gargamel was trying to say was that starting out as a new gorilla its better to let one of the more mature gorilla's lead the way in the beginning. Over time as friendships are formulated and trust is earned the newb can learn many things from the elder and eventually start doing their own thing.
> 
> IMO, box splits are the way to go for any newb. I really don't think that they are that hard to get involved in and its easy to maintain good relationships when doing one. If someone drops the ball, well then the Jungle will be made aware and that person more than likely either won't be here any more or won't be traded with,etc anymore.


Exactly X...the voice of reason. You truly understand where I was coming from. I just think it's better to let the guy who knows what he's doing take care of things...a mentoring if you will. I had a bit of mentoring here and learned a lot. It would be a shame to see the new guy put something together brimming with excitement and good intentions only to get hornshwaggled and unknowingly pass on his bunk wares to others. This kind of thing kills reputation...possibly permanently. I don't mean to come off as harsh but on the boards if one thing is taken out of context it can lead to a dog pile. It is my belief with all things in life one should speak from their own experience. Mine, although limited, is what I speak from.

I think we are all on the same page now. XXX thanks for understanding.

Merry Christmas to all


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## j6ppc (Jun 5, 2006)

Gargamel said:


> Exactly X...the voice of reason. You truly understand where I was coming from. I just think it's better to let the guy who knows what he's doing take care of things...a mentoring if you will. I had a bit of mentoring here and learned a lot. It would be a shame to see the new guy put something together brimming with excitement and good intentions only to get hornshwaggled and unknowingly pass on his bunk wares to others. This kind of thing kills reputation...possibly permanently. I don't mean to come off as harsh but on the boards if one thing is taken out of context it can lead to a dog pile. It is my belief with all things in life one should speak from their own experience. Mine, although limited, is what I speak from.
> 
> I think we are all on the same page now. XXX thanks for understanding.
> 
> Merry Christmas to all


Very well said indeed.


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## Da Klugs (Jan 8, 2005)

Lil gorillas should hang on to Momma till they learn the ropes.


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## yayson (Aug 21, 2006)

Da Klugs said:


> Lil gorillas should hang on to Momma till they learn the ropes.


that's cute as [email protected]#$ and strangely reminiscent of Dr Evil and mini me.

I should have let this thread die it's inevitable death but that photo's just too much, never seen a baby 'rilla before, that's pretty damn cool.


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