# Anyone ever win a pipe from "Coopersark"?



## KinnScience (Mar 11, 2009)

On ebay?

bidding seems a bit ... well, lets just say something got my attention. Anyone have experience bidding on his auctions?


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## Mad Hatter (Apr 8, 2007)

He's got his followers


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## plexiprs (Nov 18, 2005)

I've taken several nice Castello pipes from him. New, and unsmoked are my preference but a few monsters were lightly enjoyed. Like in all financial transactions, know what you are willing to spend and stick to it. Auctions can be iffy. Sometimes it seems that bidders will go crazy and pay more at auction then at a B&M or online retailer.

My experience says he provides accurate descriptions. Quality refurbishment and I do love that he never runs a Reserve. On some really, really high-end pipes (which I've no interest in) I've seen him start the bidding higher than zero. But, it is his business and livelihood.

I buy from him without reservation. But, I always recognize that his goal is to take my money, just like any retailer.


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## nate560 (Nov 13, 2008)

I have 3 of his pipes. IMO one of the better dealers on ebay. He has also sold a few pipes for me. Never a problem buying or selling. No problem doing business with him.


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## KinnScience (Mar 11, 2009)

On this last castello ... there seemed to be evidence that he had someone "protecting" the price. 

Naturally there is no way to prove such a thing, even with some of the "inside statistical data" that ebay monitors. 

However, my father is an auctioneer (over 38 years) who owned a reputable auction house. He is long retired and since the advent of ebay, he's been a buyer/seller and somewhat of a "student" of ebay and all that entails. He's seen seen all kinds of bidding patterns, (as have I) .. protection/shill bidding etc. 

When a bid is placed on a 7 day auction .. 2 days in ... and I come in and top it out by only $1.00... and it sits without challenge for over 3 days, that seems contrary to usual bidding patterns (though not unheard of). However, add to that the secondary bidder, monitoring only over the last 30 days: made 137 total bids on 115 items, nearly 30% being for Coopersark, well, those stats are extremely significant. Could it be a coincidence? Sure. But pretty damn unlikely. Maybe the bidder just went nuts over the last 30 days and bid on a bunch of coopersark items. But if the last 30 days accurately represent the bidding patterns of the secondary bidder, that would mean the guy bids on 30 items a month ... from one seller. 

I've certainly bid on 30 items in a month. Heck, I went nuts and bought a lot of pipes off ebay at one time. I know how much time it took to bid on that many items ... and this was with multiple sellers... not just one.

Look, there could be multiple reasons for this .. sure. There are always coincidences and anyone could offer explanations that might seem reasonable. But given how the bidding progressed, and given the stats of the secondary bidder... also add to it the fact that they guy told me the pipe was from his own personal collection, I think it a reasonable assumption that he may have asked someone (or worse, regularly uses a network such as IRC to organize shill bidding.. yes, this exists and many high end sellers exploit this) to ensure the price was protected. 

Take it FWIW. This type of thing is more common than many realize. Ebay uses all kinds of logarithms and other stat analysis tools to monitor this kind of thing, but the truth is that there really is no way to stop it. When it comes to making money, many retailers will "exercise all options" in order to protect the bottom line. It would shock some of you to know about some of the networks that have been created and utilized on IRC servers over the years. Everything from negotiation of hacked bank accounts and credit cards, drug traffic and other organized crime activities, to child *****graphy. (in undergrad, I belonged to an online group that owned and operated an IRC server... even when you own the hardware ... you cannot breach a private network on IRC.. it is a very covert avenue for communication)

For me, it is the principle. I completely understand if someone wants to protect something valuable. I don't fault anyone for that. I just don't like being played for "stupid". Is mr. Coopersark a good ebay seller? Sure. I have bought from him in the past as well. No complaints. But I do have questions about my last experience bidding. I have no wish to malign anyone. But I think that, as a group, we should look out for the interests of each other. I also think that we all need to be more aware of a practice that does exist, and wary of the potential desire to acquire our hard earned $$


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## nate560 (Nov 13, 2008)

KinnScience said:


> On this last castello ... there seemed to be evidence that he had someone "protecting" the price.
> 
> Naturally there is no way to prove such a thing, even with some of the "inside statistical data" that ebay monitors.
> 
> ...


If thats what you think just don't bid on his items or set a dollar amount your willing to pay and thats it. If you win great if you lose it oh well. I bought a new Ardor for 126.00 and a Castello hawkbill for 158.00. Anytime I can buy a pipe of that quality for that price im pretty happy. There are alot of other people selling pipes and what ever, if your not happy with anyone person or there products dont buy from them.


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## David M (Mar 11, 2009)

First time I have seen his listing.
He has some beautiful pipes.

Buyer Beware is in effect all the time and always.
That never changes. 

Full warranties and ability to return if desired is always nice but if thats not there, in the end, its all about your perceived level of happiness. If your happy paying $3,000 or $150 - it works.


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## Mad Hatter (Apr 8, 2007)

Brian I don't think I'd blame the seller on this. If that situation happened often, with as many people as watch his auction, he'd have developed a reputation as a crook. Most likely IMO if there is something fishy going on it would be the owner of this lot of pipes that is to blame, ie - he has contracted coopersark to sell his pipes for him and is running up the bids on them to make sure he gets the price he wants. I don't buy expensive pipes on Ebay. The most I have ever spent on one pipe is $50. In my price range it wouldn't be unusual for an early bid to stand for a few days as you stated but for a more expensive pipe there does seem to be more traditional bantering bidding going on.


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## plexiprs (Nov 18, 2005)

KinnScience said:


> On this last castello ... there seemed to be evidence that he had someone "protecting" the price. ......


If you have such a belief and also believe there is sufficient evidence to question the behavior then report it to ebay through the proper channels. As you said, they have means and methods of monitoring their sellers. They also have much greater information available to them then any seller or buyer does, with greater depth and detail.

I've been on ebay since 99 and believe in reporting to them any time I have the personal belief that something is up. I've done it and been proven right, as well as wrong. The members are what make the biggest difference.


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## selleri (Feb 6, 2008)

nate560 said:


> If thats what you think just don't bid on his items or set a dollar amount your willing to pay and thats it.


That's not the point, IMO. If the seller says there is no reserve, then there should not be.


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## dj1340 (Mar 30, 2009)

I have gotten a few pipes from him at a very reasonable price. I usually wait until the last 5 min to bid. Set what I'm willing to pay and walk away. All the items from him were just as described and if he has something I'm interested in, I would bid again.But then again I'm a frugal shopper, my wife says cheap but that sounds ......so cheap.


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## selleri (Feb 6, 2008)

dj1340 said:


> I usually wait until the last 5 min to bid. Set what I'm willing to pay and walk away.


That's actually the best way to handle any ebay auctions although 5 minutes might be too long time...you have chance to make another bid if it was outbid right away  If the high-price was set correctly to own max price, bidding again is just stupidity. I usually try to make my bids with 1 minute or less in the clock, sometimes I'm too late but getting sniped by some other late bidder does not happen often.


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## drastic_quench (Sep 12, 2008)

selleri said:


> That's actually the best way to handle any ebay auctions although 5 minutes might be too long time...you have chance to make another bid if it was outbid right away  If the high-price was set correctly to own max price, bidding again is just stupidity. I usually try to make my bids with 1 minute or less in the clock, sometimes I'm too late but getting sniped by some other late bidder does not happen often.


Yeah, I don't get people who bid on items with DAYS left. They're not going to win it, and they're just jacking up the price.


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## David M (Mar 11, 2009)

drastic_quench said:


> Yeah, I don't get people who bid on items with DAYS left. They're not going to win it, and they're just jacking up the price.


I guess they are thinking this.

"I need to show these other bidders that I am the Real Deal. Once I make a bid, they will see that they cant mess with me and they will just back the heck off this item. I will make them quiver in their pants. I will make them run and hide away under a rock never to come back out again after they see me and what I am willing to do. I am gonna kick some eBay a*s and make these guys wish they never bid on this item"

...or something similar.


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## plexiprs (Nov 18, 2005)

Why wait? If you are willing to pay $200 and want to bid that on day #1, so be it. Some do, others wait till the end, some wait for the last seconds. It is all personal style or "feeling" that it works for them.

I have bid on the first day and never been outbid. I've bid my max with one second to go and got beat by a higher proxy bid. All personal preference and some make it a game.


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## selleri (Feb 6, 2008)

plexiprs said:


> Why wait?


Because if you bid it in the beginning, more people have the chance to drive your bid up.


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## plexiprs (Nov 18, 2005)

selleri said:


> Because if you bid it in the beginning, more people have the chance to drive your bid up.


So you want no one else to _ever_ bid on an item you are interested in and if you don't bid they won't bid??

Naaaaaa!


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## KinnScience (Mar 11, 2009)

Mad Hatter said:


> Brian I don't think I'd blame the seller on this. If that situation happened often, with as many people as watch his auction, he'd have developed a reputation as a crook. Most likely IMO if there is something fishy going on it would be the owner of this lot of pipes that is to blame, ie - he has contracted coopersark to sell his pipes for him and is running up the bids on them to make sure he gets the price he wants. I don't buy expensive pipes on Ebay. The most I have ever spent on one pipe is $50. In my price range it wouldn't be unusual for an early bid to stand for a few days as you stated but for a more expensive pipe there does seem to be more traditional bantering bidding going on.


That could be... though he did say that this pipe was his.. but who knows.

I guess the strongest point I wanted to make was: There is really a lot more "shill" bidding going on than most people realize. The IRC channels and even networks DO exist. I've seen them. It doesn't really matter how many stat analysis programs Ebay runs ... they just are not going to be able to stop it. When we had the auction house, naturally we kept in contact with other auction houses ... and believe me, no matter what precautions are taken, there are many "protection" mechanisms put into play by sellers. Unless the item is highly publicized (and even then .. to some degree) it is really hard to keep this from happening. With this perspective, along with some other info I really don't want to get into... I know with certainty that this happens with ebay ... and I am quite confident that it is widespread. Ebay can take all the steps available to them ... and it just won't stop it. I can explain to you how private IRC networks and channels are set up ... and how this works (the last time I saw one .. and I'm sure it has advanced quite a bit since then).. but you'll have to PM me cuz I'm not going to talk openly on it.

I'm only trying to let folks know to be cautious. I'm not a "conspiracy" kind of guy ... in fact, I'm usually the last to know things in most walks of life. This is just something I happen to have grown up around ... and I've also worked in I.T. for over 18 years.... so take it FWIW.

Truth is, I would have bought that pipe ... I really wanted it... I still want it .. lol... But I also don't like being played.

Plex has a Castello that is exactly what I want.... this one was similar. I'll keep an eye out .. I may have to buy a new one .. if I can find it, but if I go new .. I want it to be exactly the one I want. $500 .. I've never gone quite that high on a pipe ... and that is what these Castellos run new.

By the way.. not to get off topic here .... but my tongue burn is back after only two days of smoking my pipes. Guess I'm gonna just have to live with it, cuz I am not going another week without smoking.


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## sounds7 (Mar 25, 2009)

I have bought several Coopersark pipes and have had no problems. If you suspect him of foul play avoid his auctions.


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## selleri (Feb 6, 2008)

plexiprs said:


> So you want no one else to _ever_ bid on an item you are interested in and if you don't bid they won't bid??


Yup, that's exactly what I meant - NOT.

There's a slight difference between meanings "more people have a chance" and "nobody will".

It depends a lot in the item (and Coopersark definetly haves enough bidders even without me), but generally it seems to work. Last minute bids do not get upped that much but the price ofcourse is already higher for sure. If there is time left, somebody you got past might come back and up the price because there's always that somebody who thinks he can get the item with just putting 5-10 dollars more on it.


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## David M (Mar 11, 2009)

KinnScience said:


> ...my tongue burn is back after only two days of smoking my pipes. Guess I'm gonna just have to live with it, cuz I am not going another week without smoking.


Check this out.
Not only for the unique way to smoke, which is very nice - but more so to get your mouth used to that simple form of breathing which you seem to need practice on. You and me both actually.

*The Breath Smoking Technique*

*Contributed by Paul Szabady*

This was taught to me by my pipe-smoking guru, an insufferably grouchy old curmudgeon. He DID know pipe smoking, though..
He called it 'breath smoking' and while it works with all tobaccos it is particularly effective with virginia flakes. It requires a relaxed setting, preferably sedentary and a very slow and calm breathing pattern. The pipe bit is held to the lips continuously and all breathing is through the nose. Every 2nd or 3rd slow breath through the nose, a tiny puff is taken through the stem, held in the mouth and slowly, very slowly, discharged back through the stem, raising but the faintest wisp of smoke from the top of the tobacco bowl, and then re-drawn back through the stem. One does NOT inhale the smoke, but if one gets very good at it, one does not even have to puff: the slight vacuum created in the mouth by nose breathing will draw the finest of puffs through the stem. The blowing back through the stem is alternated with regular, but very slight puffs (sips and kisses) so that the whole process of smoking seems as natural, regular and effortless as breathing.
I'm sure many smokers have discovered this technique, or variations of it, on their own. The advantages are that mastering it will produce the coolest and most flavorful smoke possible, and the slow regular breathing will invoke the calmness and clarity of mind to perceive the results at their fullest.

Link
G. L. Pease Tobaccos - Articles & Essays


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## plexiprs (Nov 18, 2005)

KinnScience said:


> I guess the strongest point I wanted to make was: There is really a lot more "shill" bidding going on than most people realize. .... so take it FWIW.


Everyone around me is either a crook, thief, liar, scoundrel, idiot, moron, totally incompetent or a combination of them all. Suspect all, trust none and you are not likely to ever _feel_ cheated. But, that's just because you weren't aware of it when it happened. :twitch:


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## KinnScience (Mar 11, 2009)

Well, I tried this ... I always try it. But for some reason, I end up inhaling more smoke .. which doesn't really bother me .. but (maybe my nose is permanently clogged) it doesn't seem to slow the heat down that much.

I'll have to pay better attention ... try harder..

I really miss tasting my tobaccos. Who would have thought such a small problem would make one so miserable.



David M said:


> Check this out.
> Not only for the unique way to smoke, which is very nice - but more so to get your mouth used to that simple form of breathing which you seem to need practice on. You and me both actually.
> 
> *The Breath Smoking Technique*
> ...


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## beaupipe (Feb 16, 2009)

Lots of us have no time to sit and monitor ebay auctions. So we're left with the choice of entering our highest bid early, paying a sniping service to do it for us, or not bidding at all. I go for door #1 when I see a pipe I'd really like to own. If that drives the price up, so be it. Sometimes I win and sometimes I don't.


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## RowdyBriarPiper (Dec 30, 2008)

plexiprs said:


> Auctions can be iffy. Sometimes it seems that bidders will go crazy and pay more at auction then at a B&M or online retailer.


I've suspected this too. I've definitely seen a lot of ebay auctions for pipes where the psychology of bidding (wanting to "win" at all costs) outweighs normal logical thinking ("I am bidding more for this pipe than it is actually worth if I bought it from a traditional seller")

In particular, I've noticed a number of auctions for Boswell estate pipes where the "used" pipe ends up selling for more than you can buy a similar brand-new, unsmoked Boswell for right on their website. I'll never understand that.


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## drastic_quench (Sep 12, 2008)

RowdyBriarPiper said:


> I've suspected this too. I've definitely seen a lot of ebay auctions for pipes where the psychology of bidding (wanting to "win" at all costs) outweighs normal logical thinking ("I am bidding more for this pipe than it is actually worth if I bought it from a traditional seller")
> 
> In particular, I've noticed a number of auctions for Boswell estate pipes where the "used" pipe ends up selling for more than you can buy a similar brand-new, unsmoked Boswell for right on their website. I'll never understand that.


"A fool and his money..."


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## KinnScience (Mar 11, 2009)

Coopersark has contacted me. He used an old email .. from ebay .. so I did not even see this until 20 minutes ago. In response: I can only say that I stand by my opinion of this particular bidding activity (though I do not wish to, nor would I have any indisputable evidence to, accuse the person of any wrongdoing), and that I am sorry if I caused him any hardship; this was not my intent. Here is his letter:

Someone had brought to my attention your negative comments about my suspected behavior regarding the alleged shilling (your accusation) that is occurring on my eBay auctions. I am both hurt and offended by your comments. I am sure that you meant no harm by them (I have thick skin besides!), but I want you to realize a few things, and that is the purpose of my taking the time to write you this note.
Selling pipes on eBay is my livelihood. It supports my family. My customers and my bidders are my life blood so to speak, and I would never act in any way to do anything but my very best for each and every one of them. My extensive and sterling eBay feedback speaks to this. All you have to do is read it. You must also realize that I have several thousand (yes, a non exaggerated number!) of customers and repeat customers around the world, many of who look at my auctions every week and bid on my pipes. This group of enthusiasts seems to rotate, due to the time of year or their individual financial circumstances. Some of these guys bid just to watch the pipes and if they get a bargain in the process then great. I cannot control their bidding nor their bidding patterns.
As such, I believe in transparency to such an extent that when I run a "Private Auction", I am always willing to reveal to the high bidder of that auction all of the bidders who were involved in the bidding. I know of no other seller who does that and publishes that fact in the body of their "Private Auctions". In fact what I had done when you had requested to have your name dropped from the bidding? I had sent you a list of all of the bidders who were involved. You did not take the time to reveal that fact in your note on the internet. Why only give half a story? If you ever suspect a shill bid on my auctions, please feel free to report it to eBay's Trust and Safety department, as this is a behavior that absolutely I abhor as well.
As far as a pipe being my own, you may not realize that I spend about a quarter million dollars a year on pipe inventory. I attend most every major show and buy, I buy private collections, buy from shops, buy overstocks, and buy from pipe makers. Many of the pipes that I offer every week are from my inventory and are not consignments.
Please keep in mind that due to my loyal global following, having bids is never ever a problem. Every pipe gets bid to its fair value for that point in time. That is the efficiency of a free market. I run my business on a stochastic model that involves quantity of sales and not individual sales. Do you think that for a moment I would stake my sterling reputation and my family's livelihood on a single pipe? You are seriously mistaken if you do.
As a favor to me, I ask you to publish this note on your Puff.com forum site. Doing so will speak to your sincerity. I do not participate in these fourm discussions, as my eBay work involves 80 hour work weeks and what precious little time that I have left is spent with my family. Thank you in advance for doing this!
With all my appreciation, Rob Cooper of Coopersark


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## BigKev77 (Feb 16, 2008)

Glad you posted that.


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## Mad Hatter (Apr 8, 2007)

He didn't even call you a mother****er


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## plexiprs (Nov 18, 2005)

Personally, I've no issues with him or his sales and continue to watch them to buy as I see fit. I don't believe there is anything illegal or unethical in his auctions or general business practices. 

As always, each must establish their own requirements for whom they expend their hard earned funds with. I've nothing but 5 star experiences with Coopersark and see no reason to change my opinion. 

You are free, and more so, encouraged, to form your own opinion and act accordingly. Also, I don't fault anyone for expressing their opinion or concerns on issues involving sales and exchange of goods and/or money. An informed buyer is always a better buyer, IMHO.


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