# Springfield Mo proposed smoking ban!



## codykrr

Ok so there is a proposed smoking ban in my town. the city will be voting in April to either pass or deny the ban.

This will hurt our few Brick and mortars we do have. If you live in the area I urge you to go cast your vote.

I am sure Christian and his other employee's will greatly appreciate it!

here is a link to the video.

Tobacco shop owner worries about effect of possible workplace smoking ban in Springfield - ky3.com

Ps. - Christian is a member here (I believe) and will hopefully fill us in a bit more.(If he can)


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## smelvis

I am so tired of them sons of bitches trying to make my life better. You ever wondered what a minority feels like well now we all know. Pricks and prickettes!!


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## JustOneMoreStick

I sure wish they would stop helping me be better protected. If my gun or a rubber wont protect me from it I aint worried bout it and they shouldnt be either.


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## codykrr

It is sad, I know. I wouldnt so much mind a ban in places that dont serve X amount of alcohol(family type resturants) but to ban it all together is rediculous. bars and smoke shops....thats what they are they for. drinking and smoking. yeah sure people have the right to breat "fresh air" we have the right to breath our smoke.

It will really piss me off if Christian has to close up shop. Because They are good people. The best Brick and mortar in my town. To see it leave would suck.

Fellow springfield MO BOTL please vote!


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## KcJason1

They Pulled this SH$t in Kansas City... With the Brick and Mortars but the ones here were grandfathered in... Hopefully the same will happen in SF... Sucks though no new lounges can open up. Unless there is a loop hole... here's my example

We do have a new lounge... and this is how it happened.. They got around the Ban because it is a free standing building and they don't serve food... (old restaurant building converted into a lounge....) Gotta love loop holes.

But its great because you can byob and food... During parties they will provide kegs and cater in food... It's a pretty sweet deal actually... Hopefully It all works out for you guys down there... I pass through there several times a year on the way to table rock... I'd love to stop in and check out your guy's B&M's and have a smoke!


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## dyieldin

That sucks! I spend a couple of days 2 times a year in Republic near there and Just for Him is indeed the only place in the area to go to. I do not understand the reasoning of the people that make these laws. If you do not like strippers, do not go to a strip club, same for smoking.

I think people that drink coffee talk to damm much and we should ban coffee shops because all that talking ruins my eardrums.

I am just sick of all this bullshit everywhere, people need to get lives so they have something to do. I am an adult and can make my own decisions, take my own risks.

Pisses me off.


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## hoosiers2006

I too have never understood how B&Ms would be smoke free. Its a freaking cigar shop. Who goes into one thinking that there wont be smoke???? :banghead: 

Good grief, hope the ban is voted down.


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## mu mike

We're trying to educate people about the proposed ballot language, because I think most people don't understand that it is a total smoking ban which would include tobacco shops, private clubs, etc. I think the general population thinks this is just about restaurants and bars. Can you imagine telling the VFW "sorry, I know you fought for our freedom abroad but you are not allowed to smoke in your own private club." Unreal.

Christian is also looking into options if it does pass. There may be ways to get tobacco shops excluded even after the ban is in place.


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## fivespdcat

Total BS. I'm so sick of these politicians trying to protect us as opposed to trying to increase the economy, solve healthcare, protect our freedoms or reduce the national debt! Get a life and stay out of mine!


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## jlb27537

OK you folks,

Today, 80% of the population does NOT smoke. I do not smoke. I like to go to the Elks Lodge (Springfield) and socialize with my fellow Lodge members. The Lodge presently allows smoking in the entire building, EXCEPT the meeting room.

If smoking is a non issue, why do they not allow it there or during a Lodge meeting???????

I fought for this country, however I will NOT join the VFW because I do not like to have to go home and take a shower and leave my clothes in the garage. I wonder if the 80% of non smokers would join if the VFW became non smoking???????????

The 20% that smoke, want the 80% that does not, to just get over it.

You want to smoke, do it somewhere with other smokers, like your house, your car, a cigar bar.

I like bars as much as anyone, but I want to drink in a smoke free business. My drinking does not harm you. Your smoking does harm me.

I have no issue with allowing smoking in a true tobacco based business, like a cigar bar, I will never be there. Let the Judges and Lawyers go there.

Bet you can guess how I will vote.

J


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## mu mike

Thanks for your first post, nice of you to join! Glad you're interested in cigars.

Here is something I don't understand:



jlb27537 said:


> *I have no issue with allowing smoking in a true tobacco based business*, like a cigar bar, I will never be there. Let the Judges and Lawyers go there.
> 
> _Bet you can guess how I will vote._
> 
> J


You do realize the ordinance as currently written will forbid smoking in retail tobacco stores? Surely you've read the entire ordinance, right? If you have no issue with tobacco stores, why would you vote for an ordinance that would take their right away? The One Air Alliance had a chance to get City Council approval and ban all smoking in restaurants and bars. That wasn't good enough for them so they started crying, took their ball and went home. Isn't that sad? They won't return Christian's phone calls (the owner of Just For Him). They're cowards. And I find it funny that they exempted 25% of hotel rooms. If they're so concerned about worker's health, which they say is their primary goal with this ordinance, do they not care about hotel workers who may have to breathe second-hand smoke? Hypocrisy at its finest.

Further, the proponents of this bill are pushing this ballot issue as a ban in all restaurants and bars and failing to say anything about the retail tobacco stores. It's a shame what they're trying to do to a good business like Just For Him that is a stand-up business member of the community.

But I guess the larger point is, when will attitudes like yours stop? I don't like to drink. Drinking is the cause of more deaths than smoking. Perhaps eventually, the majority of people will be non-drinkers and we will outlaw alcohol. Drunk people endanger my life on the road.

I don't like salt or high-fat foods, which leads to obesity. Obesity is the cause of more deaths than smoking. Perhaps eventually, the majority of people will be skinny and we will outlaw salt and other fatty foods. As a taxpayer, I have to indirectly pay for a portion of their health costs.

But I digress...


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## KcJason1

jlb27537 said:


> OK you folks,
> 
> Today, 80% of the population does NOT smoke. I do not smoke. I like to go to the Elks Lodge (Springfield) and socialize with my fellow Lodge members. The Lodge presently allows smoking in the entire building, EXCEPT the meeting room.
> 
> If smoking is a non issue, why do they not allow it there or during a Lodge meeting???????
> 
> I fought for this country, however I will NOT join the VFW because I do not like to have to go home and take a shower and leave my clothes in the garage. I wonder if the 80% of non smokers would join if the VFW became non smoking???????????
> 
> The 20% that smoke, want the 80% that does not, to just get over it.
> 
> You want to smoke, do it somewhere with other smokers, like your house, your car, a cigar bar.
> 
> I like bars as much as anyone, but I want to drink in a smoke free business. My drinking does not harm you. Your smoking does harm me.
> 
> I have no issue with allowing smoking in a true tobacco based business, like a cigar bar, I will never be there. Let the Judges and Lawyers go there.
> 
> Bet you can guess how I will vote.
> 
> J


What's your point? You don't like the fact that the Elks allows smoking? Get over it.. If you don't like what a private club allows then quit... And go join a vegan lodge, buy a prius, and march with PETA. This is not a place to come cry about what our cigar smoke may or may not do to your pussification of America lungs.

And the fact that you want to ban smoking in cigar lounges is ludacris.. What's the point? To shut them down so people are unable to obtain cigars which would then be smoked in other places that they are allowed and quite possibly harm you there as well? Here's a tip.. If you don't like our smoke, don't stand down wind!


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## bent-1

jlb27537 said:


> OK you folks,
> 
> I like bars as much as anyone, but I want to drink in a smoke free business. My drinking does not harm you. Your smoking does harm me.
> 
> J


Hi. I can appreciate your point, but a private establishment should have the right to determine if smoking is permitted or not, just as it's your right to determine what establishments to patronize.

What concerns me is the loss of liberty for individuals to determine for themselves what is in their best interest. Someday soon, the individual liberty to drink may be considered a harm to others. When all these liberties are gone, who will stand with you?


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## InsidiousTact

bent-1 said:


> A private establishment should have the right to determine if smoking is permitted or not, just as it's your right to determine what establishments to patronize.


Precisely.



jlb27537 said:


> OK you folks,
> 
> Today, 80% of the population does NOT smoke. I do not smoke. I like to go to the Elks Lodge (Springfield) and socialize with my fellow Lodge members. The Lodge presently allows smoking in the entire building, EXCEPT the meeting room.
> 
> If smoking is a non issue, why do they not allow it there or during a Lodge meeting???????
> 
> I fought for this country, however I will NOT join the VFW because I do not like to have to go home and take a shower and leave my clothes in the garage. I wonder if the 80% of non smokers would join if the VFW became non smoking???????????
> 
> The 20% that smoke, want the 80% that does not, to just get over it.
> 
> You want to smoke, do it somewhere with other smokers, like your house, your car, a cigar bar.
> 
> I like bars as much as anyone, but I want to drink in a smoke free business. My drinking does not harm you. Your smoking does harm me.
> 
> I have no issue with allowing smoking in a true tobacco based business, like a cigar bar, I will never be there. Let the Judges and Lawyers go there.
> 
> Bet you can guess how I will vote.
> 
> J


Would you like to know something funny? We are not a democracy. We are a republic. We are because our founding fathers were just as worried about losing their rights to a crazy tyrannical majority as they were to a crazy tyrannical dictator.

Let me use an example. 80% of the population is so worried about the population and overcrowding, that they decide the best thing to do is to kill all babies. Well, they are the majority, so I guess it's time to start killing babies right?

You can't use that argument to take away anybody's rights. You can walk away from the smoke, or bars can choose to restrict smoking in their establishment. If 80% of the population is non-smoking, there should be a market for non-smoking bars, right? Hell, open one of your own, pave the way for others.


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## bent-1

I doubt Jib will ever post again.

However, with the same math model, since congress has a 25% job approval rating, it's safe to say that 75% of the legislation passed is crap. Since it's crap, and we live in a 'democracy', shouldn't 75% of the laws passed be rendered null & void?

Congressional polling data report (numerous pollsters)

http://www.pollingreport.com/CongJob.htm


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## Frankenstein

With any luck, they'll realize that a more realistic ordinance is one like here in Columbia.... tobacco retailers are exempt.


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## 1029henry

Wow! I can somewhat understand how liberal big cities would pass a draconian smoking ban, but small to mid-size midwestern towns? Damn, our American culture IS in trouble. Soon our entire great nation will be like East Germany, 1962. Wake up, America!!!


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## Rosie

InsidiousTact said:


> You can walk away from the smoke, or bars can choose to restrict smoking in their establishment. If 80% of the population is non-smoking, there should be a market for non-smoking bars, right? Hell, open one of your own, pave the way for others.


You know, I've been saying this for years. When all the smoking bans started in earnest, people would say how it would help business because all the non smokers would come out of the woodwork. But, if there were such a huge market of folks longing to breathe free at bars, then why did no bar owner ever ban smoking in their establishment? Certainly there was no law stating they had to allow smoking. You'd think a savvy businessman would have made a fortune from this years ago.

Cheers,

Rosie


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## yvesmary

You guys haven't seen anything yet. It's just the tip of the iceberg.

In Canada, more and more provinces are banning smoking in your own vehicle if there are kids inside.


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## freedombrawler25

The bottom line is that it should be the business owner's decision.

How many people will be harassed by the police? How many of them will refuse to pay the fine? How long do they got to jail? How much money will it cost the city to: 1. enforce the ordinance? 2. detain those who do not pay the fine?

I can understand offices, factories, public parks, even family restaurants. But bars and private clubs? Tobacco retailers? Thats just wrong.

How long until the ordinance is expanded to your personal property? There are communities that have banned smoking in apartment buildings. Imagine owning an apartment (not too many in spfld.) and then a law is passed FORCING you to either change your lifestyle or move...or go to JAIL!

The ordinance will also ban theuse of electronic alternatives to smoking. Why? If the device DOES NOT CREATE SECONDHAND SMOKE, WHY IS IT THROWN INTO THE LANGUAGE?????

Ill tell ya why. Because this is for whine-bags who have no regard for basic rights of business owners and personal liberty. Those pushing for the ordinance are a small percentage of non-smokers. They need a reason to LOOK FURTHER DOWN THEIR NOSES AT A CERTAIN GROUP. They are compelled TO MAKE DECISIONS FOR EVERYONE. They basically saying THAT THE NONSMOKERS WHO RESPECT THE CONSTITUTION AND LOVE FREEDOM *CANNOT DECIDE FOR THEMSELVES!*

Fascism is unAmerican!:frusty:


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## bent-1

Now that obama care is federal law, the future looks grim. The government will dictate what & if we can smoke.


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## seanhobbs

Where can I read the language? I'm particularly interested in the ban of electronics cigarettes. I don't remember reading anything about electronic cigarettes in this ban. 

I own a bar, and we plan to sell disposable electronic cigarettes. Liquor control is telling me that we can't allow people to use electronic cigarettes, even though they are just nicotine inhalers that only exhale water vapor and flavoring. Does this mean people wearing a nicotine patch, or using nicotine gum, can't do so in a bar?


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## Frankenstein

seanhobbs said:


> Where can I read the language? I'm particularly interested in the ban of electronics cigarettes. I don't remember reading anything about electronic cigarettes in this ban.
> 
> I own a bar, and we plan to sell disposable electronic cigarettes. Liquor control is telling me that we can't allow people to use electronic cigarettes, even though they are just nicotine inhalers that only exhale water vapor and flavoring. Does this mean people wearing a nicotine patch, or using nicotine gum, can't do so in a bar?


here's a link to a pdf which contains the ordinance http://www.springfieldmo.gov/citycouncil/agenda/01-10-11/2011-012.pdf

ecigs are definitely listed.


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## seanhobbs

Frankenstein said:


> here's a link to a pdf which contains the ordinance
> 
> ecigs are definitely listed.


Thanks Frankenstein, just what I needed. At least we have an outdoor area, I'll have to paint a yellow line to make a 5 feet semicircle from the door on the outside.


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