# If cuban cigars were legalised



## mario (Jul 31, 2008)

I would like to ask people: If cuban cigars were ever legalised in the states would people still buy the same cigars they are buying now or do think people would go strictly cuban?

I personaly think the Non-cuban market would fall slightly but i would like to know other opinions on this.....


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## Thrak (Oct 21, 2008)

I think cubans are not what they once were. After the initial few months of people going crazy buying cubans, they will probably go back to their favorites, or continue as they do today.


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## Gone Dave (Mar 30, 2008)

I think it will cause the worst, More users, less availability , higher prices..

Just imagine the "player" like fity cents (no offense to fity!:2) that hustles dope, has a ill gotten pile of $$, and a pissy desire to smoke the good stuff. 
So the "Britchs" will be impressed :r
or the law abiding office worker that just smokes what he can..:2
So lets work to spread the word "Cubans suck!" yeah that's it, they "suck"..:tu
.....


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## jledou (Jul 18, 2008)

An interesting thought, I do think that I will see the ban on Cuban cigars lifted in my lifetime.
In saying that I think that there will be a small decline in the NC market but it will still survive. The prices might be lower, which would be good for everyone, but for people that have smoked them for most of their life well they are probably going to stay with them.
The interesting thing will be what happens to the NC/CC same name cigars. Do new brands pop up for the NCs or do they sell them off to other companies?


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## koolbooy (Dec 16, 2007)

i think people would still buy the cigars they do now. but they would definitely experiece the cubans more for a couple of months since its new to them or legalized. i think it really depends on your palate and what you like, i know plenty of guys who hate the cubans i love and love the cubans i hate. but it sure would be nice to buy some Bolivars legally .... id be one happy guy! :ss


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## clampdown (Feb 7, 2006)

koolbooy said:


> but it sure would be nice to buy some Bolivars legally .... id be one happy guy! :ss


Yes you would :tu


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## Rev2010 (Sep 3, 2008)

I'd still buy the same I'm buying now, maybe along with some cuban ones. Personally, I've tried several cubans now and I only found one to be great - and it still was no greater than any of my favorites. And the others I thought weren't all that good. Granted, I haven't tried very many different ones so it could just be the few I've had. But, why limit oneself?? I don't only drink beer from Germany.


Rev.


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## Footbag (May 14, 2008)

I'm not sure that Cuban cigars could maintain their quality if production was increased to include US supply. As it is, I think they should be aging their cigars at least an extra 6 months before sending them out to vendors.

That said, if I still liked the quality, I'd still buy them. It would be interesting to see how they priced out in relation to domestic market cigars.


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## Blueface (May 28, 2005)

Footbag said:


> I'm not sure that Cuban cigars could maintain their quality if production was increased to include US supply.


Fact is they can't.
They are maximum production capacity right now and have no ability to produce more.
So only likely scenario if supply remains the same and demand rises, price will rise as long as that demand is elevated.

Not my call but this thread seems more fitting in the "Habanos" section.


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## bolio (Sep 19, 2007)

right now, without or little demand from the usa, their quality sucks, imagine if there was a big demand from the usa, they'll be sending unrolled leaves.:hn


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## clampdown (Feb 7, 2006)

bolio said:


> right now, without or little demand from the usa, their quality sucks, imagine if there was a big demand from the usa, they'll be sending unrolled leaves.:hn


Really? Their quality sucks? Which cigars are you talking about that suck?


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## ucla695 (Jun 27, 2006)

Initially, I think there would be a lot of interest in smoking CCs. It might even help bring people off the sidelines to try them. People would go to B&Ms just to see what all of the hype is about. Inevitably, quality would suffer as production is ramped up like it did in the last cigar boom . As a result, I think NCs sales would take a hit the first few years or so. The interesting thing to think about is all of the different blends that might hit the market. Cuban filler and binder with a Connecticut wrapper, etc... There would also be a lot trademark questions for sure.


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## sjnovakovich (Apr 29, 2008)

mario said:


> I would like to ask people: If cuban cigars were ever legalised in the states would people still buy the same cigars they are buying now or do think people would go strictly cuban?
> 
> I personaly think the Non-cuban market would fall slightly but i would like to know other opinions on this.....


Although I've smoked less than 100 Cubans, I haven't found a single one that comes close to anything in the Fuente lin.


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## Blueface (May 28, 2005)

sjnovakovich said:


> Although I've smoked less than 100 Cubans, I haven't found a single one that comes close to anything in the Fuente lin.


.....and you won't.
I suppose that is only important if you consider the Fuente line the best.
Opinions vary and I personally would disagree as the Fuente line being the one to compare to.
However, to your point, that is like saying out of all the apples I have eaten, I haven't found one yet that tastes like an organge.


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## Habanolover (Feb 22, 2006)

sjnovakovich said:


> Although I've smoked less than 100 Cubans, I haven't found a single one that comes close to anything in the Fuente lin.


And I haven't found one Fuente that taste anything close to a Cuban. That works both ways. That is why I love the saying smoke what you like and like what you smoke. :tu


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## sjnovakovich (Apr 29, 2008)

Blueface said:


> .....and you won't.
> I suppose that is only important if you consider the Fuente line the best.
> Opinions vary and I personally would disagree as the Fuente line being the one to compare to.
> However, to your point, that is like saying out of all the apples I have eaten, I haven't found one yet that tastes like an organge.


I respectfully disagree. I am not comparing apples to oranges, I am comparing cigars to cigars; both are made of tobacco, and both have a filler, binder, and a wrapper. When Castro took over the industry, most (not all) of the highly skilled blenders and manufacturers left Cuba, taking most of the high quality skills with them. I used Fuente to illustrate a point. While cigar smokers may disagree on whether or not they like the line, most all will agree that it is a high quality product, just as those who may not like beef will agree that Kobi is a high quality product. The point that I was illustrating is that, in my opinion, most non-Cuban brands are as good as, if not better than most Cuban brands.

Feel free to disagree, that's why the USA is a better place to live than Cuba; we are able to express opposing ideas. Please however, keep the disagreement gentlemanly in the spirit of this forum.

Steve


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## JCK (Nov 9, 2006)

Blueface said:


> Fact is they can't.
> *They are maximum production capacity right now and have no ability to produce more.*So only likely scenario if supply remains the same and demand rises, price will rise as long as that demand is elevated.
> 
> Not my call but this thread seems more fitting in the "Habanos" section.





ucla695 said:


> Initially, I think there would be a lot of interest in smoking CCs. *It might even help bring people off the sidelines to try them. People would go to B&Ms just to see what all of the hype is about. *Inevitably, quality would suffer as production is ramped up like it did in the last cigar boom . As a result, I think NCs sales would take a hit the first few years or so. The interesting thing to think about is all of the different blends that might hit the market. Cuban filler and binder with a Connecticut wrapper, etc... There would also be a lot trademark questions for sure.


Interesting thought to ponder. If no more is produced. Does the Global Market receive less to supply a U.S. market, i.e. stocking local B&Ms?

I imagine with increased Demand with the same supply, you're going to see alot more fakes in every store with prime facings and glowing lights!

But that's the cynic in me talking :]

I'll keep on buying what I'm buying today... That's what I'd like to think.


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## sjnovakovich (Apr 29, 2008)

khubli said:


> I'll keep on buying what I'm buying today... That's what I'd like to think.


Me too.


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## Scott W. (Jul 10, 2008)

I'm sure I would buy some Cubans if given the change but I am used to my favorites right now and would probably stick with them unless something blew me away.


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## cbsmokin (Oct 10, 2007)

sjnovakovich said:


> I respectfully disagree. I am not comparing apples to oranges, I am comparing cigars to cigars; both are made of tobacco, and both have a filler, binder, and a wrapper. When Castro took over the industry, most (not all) of the highly skilled blenders and manufacturers left Cuba, taking most of the high quality skills with them. I used Fuente to illustrate a point. While cigar smokers may disagree on whether or not they like the line, most all will agree that it is a high quality product, just as those who may not like beef will agree that Kobi is a high quality product. The point that I was illustrating is that, in my opinion, most non-Cuban brands are as good as, if not better than most Cuban brands.
> 
> Feel free to disagree, that's why the USA is a better place to live than Cuba; we are able to express opposing ideas. Please however, keep the disagreement gentlemanly in the spirit of this forum.
> 
> Steve


I think it is more like comparing a red apple to a green apple then. I smoke both types of apples and I like Fuentes, but I would pick a 5 year old RyJ Churchill over it any day. :tu


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## kayaker (Aug 7, 2008)

I haven't read through all the posts so I apologize if I'm repeating others comments.

As a Canadian with easy access to Cubans, they are not the only thing I smoke. Especially having tried out more varieties of NCs.

I think there might very well be an initial drop in NC sales in the states as Cubans become accessible. However, it is likely that we would see increased production and decreased quality in Cuba as they rush to meet the demand. Happened before. Or the prices will increase dramatically.

After a settling in period it would likely come back to who makes the best product and (unfortunately) who can hype their product the best. Smokers in the know will smoke what they like and the sheep will smoke what they are "told" to.

I think in most cases, people will smoke a mixture of CCs and NCs alike, just to have that variety.


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## Cigary (Oct 19, 2007)

I believe that true cigar smokers will follow their own taste regardless of where the cigar comes from. If you are smoking a cigar strictly from the standpoint of where it comes from then you are missing out on some very good cigars. I don't smoke cigars because they are popular but rather because I like them and they smoke and taste great.


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## sjnovakovich (Apr 29, 2008)

Cigary said:


> I believe that true cigar smokers will follow their own taste regardless of where the cigar comes from. If you are smoking a cigar strictly from the standpoint of where it comes from then you are missing out on some very good cigars. I don't smoke cigars because they are popular but rather because I like them and they smoke and taste great.


This makes the most sense to me, so far as what to expect from the market as a whole.


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## Blueface (May 28, 2005)

sjnovakovich said:


> Feel free to disagree, that's why the USA is a better place to live than Cuba; we are able to express opposing ideas. Please however, keep the disagreement gentlemanly in the spirit of this forum.
> 
> Steve


No doubt I am free to disagree.
No doubt a better place than Cuba as you see, you are explaining an accident to an eye witness. I am Cuban. I fled Castro's Cuba.

Now please explain to me as I am totally confused.
Exactly which part of my post was not a gentlemanly manner that warrants you reprimanding me or at minimum, having to even make such a suggestion? That is offensive my friend.


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## Habanolover (Feb 22, 2006)

I thought you were legal Carlos.


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## Blueface (May 28, 2005)

madurolover said:


> I thought you were legal Carlos.


Aged and triple capped to be precise.


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## Habanolover (Feb 22, 2006)

Blueface said:


> Aged and triple capped to be precise.


May cap was "clipped" as a baby. :r


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## Blueface (May 28, 2005)

khubli said:


> Interesting thought to ponder. If no more is produced. Does the Global Market receive less to supply a U.S. market, i.e. stocking local B&Ms?
> 
> I imagine with increased Demand with the same supply, you're going to see alot more fakes in every store with prime facings and glowing lights!
> 
> ...


Ji,
I think the cynic in you is quite correct.
They may very well try to shift some more supply this way if it will empty out the shelves faster and catch a higher dollar.
With that, no doubt the counterfeiters are going to come out of every crack and corner.
I suppose it could in fact get ugly with counterfeits, more so than today.


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## Habanolover (Feb 22, 2006)

Blueface said:


> Ji,
> I think the cynic in you is quite correct.
> They may very well try to shift some more supply this way if it will empty out the shelves faster and catch a higher dollar.
> With that, no doubt the counterfeiters are going to come out of every crack and corner.
> I suppose it could in fact get ugly with counterfeits, more so than today.


*GLASS TOPS:* Coming soon to a gas station near you!!!! :r


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## audio1der (Mar 8, 2006)

If they are legalised I will likely stop buying cigars at all for some time, until the initial demand dwindles, quality comes back up and prices go back down.
I can't stand NCs, but I'm fortunate to have a couple Cuban sticks at home to tide me over.


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## Blueface (May 28, 2005)

sjnovakovich said:


> I respectfully disagree. I am not comparing apples to oranges, I am comparing cigars to cigars; both are made of tobacco, and both have a filler, binder, and a wrapper. When Castro took over the industry, most (not all) of the highly skilled blenders and manufacturers left Cuba, taking most of the high quality skills with them. I used Fuente to illustrate a point. While cigar smokers may disagree on whether or not they like the line, most all will agree that it is a high quality product, just as those who may not like beef will agree that Kobi is a high quality product. The point that I was illustrating is that, in my opinion, most non-Cuban brands are as good as, if not better than most Cuban brands.
> 
> Steve


BTW,
To address this part, you are truly missing the point of what makes them Cuban. I don't know which ones have consisted of your 100 or less and I don't know your source to even know if they can be judged as real or fakes, which are quite common all over the world.

What makes Cubans different is the same as what makes anything that is endemic predominantly to some part of the world that cannot be reproduced exactly the same elsewhere. My homeland has a soil and climate that is comparable to none in the world. I assure you Carlito (being Cuban also) would completely agree and would go back to Cuba for tobacco in a heartbeat if he had the chance.

I love the Padron Anni line. I feel it is the best cigar in the world. My opinion. Yours is Fuente. Many on this board would argue no NC can compare to a Cuban. However, as much as I love Padron Annis, I have to admit the flavor of Cubans is unique.

As the saying goes, opinions are like a..holes, everyone has one. This subject is no different. Me calling you out on yours is no different. But understand one thing, there is a significant difference in taste on a Cuban cigar that cannot be matched by any part of the world. If that was not true, why would the really major NC market be the US? Go elsewhere in the world and see what you find as the cigar of choice. I wonder why?

And no, although you are correct many of the tobacco craftsmen left post Castro, the knowledge never left Cuba and neither did the blends. Many, such as Robaina are 90+ yr olds that have plenty of knowledge to share. To think the art left Cuba post Castro is unreasonable. Are there annoying tight cigars coming out of Cuba at times in the past? No doubt. Is that due to inferiority? No way. It is due to trying to meet demand. That happens in any business. But the taste of a Cuban cigar is very, very unique, unlike anything that can ever be produced elsewhere in the world. Now you may think this is one man's opinion but I think the line behind me is quite long.


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## Footbag (May 14, 2008)

At this point, I don't think that Cuban cigars have poor quality, I just think they are under aged. That's easily fixed, but patience is a virtue.

I cut my teeth with Cuban cigars in the late 90's. That was a bad time for quality of Cuban Cigars. Plugged cigars are worthless IMO


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## Habanolover (Feb 22, 2006)

That is the truth Carlos. :tu
It is not that one is 'better' than the other. It is that the taste is very much different. Cuban does not taste like Dominican does not taste like Honduran, etc. Those who prefer Dominican will feel that that is the best. Same goes for those that prefer cigars from any country. They are all different. I love the taste of Cuban cigars.I also love the taste of Nicaraguan cigars. Do I think one is better than the other? *No* But I do think they are very different.


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## sjnovakovich (Apr 29, 2008)

Blueface said:


> No doubt I am free to disagree.
> 
> Now please explain to me as I am totally confused.
> Exactly which part of my post was not a gentlemanly manner that warrants you reprimanding me or at minimum, having to even make such a suggestion? That is offensive my friend.


Hey Carlos... take it easy bud. I didn't accuse you. That was just incase any succeding posters felt like flaming me, because I knew my remarks might be considered somewhat incendiary.


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## mosesbotbol (Sep 21, 2005)

Until there's enough production and distribution chains to handle the US market, Habanos will be a high-end cigar like Davidoff. I think the % of people smoking Habanos vs. NC will be the same as Canada or Europe. Habanos distribution is going to be tight, and I think the most will see are from parallel markets. 

Think you see a lot fake now? Wait until they are legal here!

Honestly, I do not think Habanos is even concerned about the US market as there's too much business in other markets. There's as many or more smokers in Asia and Eastern Europe. Never mind the Middle East...


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## Blueface (May 28, 2005)

sjnovakovich said:


> Hey Carlos... take it easy bud. I didn't accuse you. That was just incase any succeding posters felt like flaming me, because I knew my remarks might be considered somewhat incendiary.


:r
Sorry.
Hadn't had my coffee and misunderstood it.


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## gary106334 (Sep 28, 2006)

Having never had a Cuban cigar I would have to say I would buy some just to see if they were as good as I have read.


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## piperman (Sep 8, 2005)

Well I think I would try some that I have not tried before, but as smoking them only, I dont think so.


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## Snake Hips (May 30, 2008)

jledou said:


> An interesting thought, I do think that I will see the ban on Cuban cigars lifted in my lifetime.
> In saying that I think that there will be a small decline in the NC market but it will still survive. The prices might be lower, which would be good for everyone, but for people that have smoked them for most of their life well they are probably going to stay with them.
> The interesting thing will be what happens to the NC/CC same name cigars. Do new brands pop up for the NCs or do they sell them off to other companies?


They would probably be integrated as other lines to keep as many customers as possible. Legally, it wouldn't pose too much of a problem, but logistically it'd be kind of funky for a little while. Altadis S.A. owns most of the trademarks for Cuban marcas in the U.S., and they also own half of Habanos S.A. It's General Cigar that would have a problem - they would probably have to sell their Cuban marca trademarks to Habanos/Altadis or they take it to court and win and Habanos would be prohibited from selling those certain brands in the U.S.



bolio said:


> right now, without or little demand from the usa, their quality sucks, imagine if there was a big demand from the usa, they'll be sending unrolled leaves.


Bold statement - I've never had a badly made Cuban. Also consider that it's estimated that 30% of Cuban cigar production goes to the U.S. now anyway. With that, I can't see much of a change from the status quo besides some court duels, a shite-ton of fakes and higher prices.


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## Hermit (Aug 5, 2008)

Gone Dave said:


> Just imagine the "player" like fity cents (no offense to fity!:2) that hustles dope, has a ill gotten pile of $$, and a pissy desire to smoke the good stuff.
> .....


You don't think guys like that are already buyin em?
Not like they care much about what's illegal.

I agree with you about higher prices, less availability and a decline in quality.


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## ucla695 (Jun 27, 2006)

khubli said:


> Interesting thought to ponder. If no more is produced. Does the Global Market receive less to supply a U.S. market, i.e. stocking local B&Ms?
> 
> I imagine with increased Demand with the same supply, you're going to see alot more fakes in every store with prime facings and glowing lights!
> 
> ...





Blueface said:


> Ji,
> I think the cynic in you is quite correct.
> They may very well try to shift some more supply this way if it will empty out the shelves faster and catch a higher dollar.
> With that, no doubt the counterfeiters are going to come out of every crack and corner.
> I suppose it could in fact get ugly with counterfeits, more so than today.


Counterfeiting would still be profitable so there's definitely no incentive for them to stop. That's why it's important to know thy vendor (or B&M).


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## JCK (Nov 9, 2006)

ucla695 said:


> Counterfeiting would still be profitable so there's definitely no incentive for them to stop. That's why it's important to know thy vendor (or B&M).


This is one of the benefits, one of the things I've learned in my two years at ClubStogie. At the same time there are so many casual smokers that would not know the difference.

I didn't put much thought into smoking a Romeo #3 Tubo that I picked up in a corner market in Amsterdam. I thought perhaps it could be fake, but it sure was enjoyed.

For some reason my guard isn't up as much when I consider an established Habano smoking culture.

Even if the Embargo is lifted, I would suspect anything I find in a corner market in the United States.


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## Hermit (Aug 5, 2008)

As for non-cubans being equal or better than cubans,
well some folk's favorite beer is Miller Lite.
A matter of personal taste.


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## koolbooy (Dec 16, 2007)

clampdown said:


> Yes you would :tu


 :tu


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## One Lonely Smoker (Jan 21, 2005)

khubli said:


> I imagine with increased Demand with the same supply, you're going to see alot more fakes in every store with prime facings and glowing lights!
> 
> 
> > Cynical maybe, but DEAD on. Right now Brick and mortar tobacco stores in the US either do not sell them or sell them completely on the sly. You take law enforcement out of the picture and you won't be able to find any more real CCs in the US than fakes. You'll see about 50-50 or worse. If you think Mexico has alot of fakes, wait till you see the US once the bubble breaks.


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## One Lonely Smoker (Jan 21, 2005)

sjnovakovich said:


> Please however, keep the disagreement gentlemanly in the spirit of this forum.
> Steve


OH, you mean THIS forum. My bad, I thought you were talking about the one you were a member of before April 08. Sorry, couldn't resist. But seriously, you gotta watch them Cubans, they think Cuba is a better country no matter who's currently in charge. You have to phrase it differently if you want to talk about how great the USA is. Especially when you are talking to Blueface.


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## One Lonely Smoker (Jan 21, 2005)

mosesbotbol said:


> Honestly, I do not think Habanos is even concerned about the US market as there's too much business in other markets. There's as many or more smokers in Asia and Eastern Europe. Never mind the Middle East...


Two words..............Shipping costs. 90 miles versus.....an ocean.


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## hoax (Aug 7, 2007)

I don't get why people keep saying Cuba is maxed out on tobacco production. They may be under a Communist economic model. But if history has taught us one thing is that there is always room for improvement when you apply a little Capitalism.


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## Footbag (May 14, 2008)

One Lonely Smoker said:


> Two words..............Shipping costs. 90 miles versus.....an ocean.


One word... Taxes. I think pricing will depend on the taxes they chose to levy on Cuban Cigars. In addition to any importation duties, states levy their own taxes. The transportation costs would be about $1500 for 3200sq ft of cigars. Or approximately $.06 per box.

Very rough math, I was in a rush. But it would only reflect the costs to bring them in to a single point in the country.


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## SeanGAR (Jul 9, 2004)

I really like the taste of Nicaraguan cigars and wouldn't stop buying them if Cubans are legal here. If people prefer Fuentes .. well that is great, more Cubans for the rest of us.


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## NCRadioMan (Feb 28, 2005)

SeanGAR said:


> I really like the taste of Nicaraguan cigars and wouldn't stop buying them if Cubans are legal here. If people prefer Fuentes .. well that is great, more Cubans for the rest of us.


:tpd: I am a sucker for Nic baccy but I am not a fan of Fuente, at all.

Plus, imagine all the new blends created using a combo including cuban tobacco. Thinking of nic and cuban baccy together makes me go..........Yumm!

Last year, Rothman signed a deal to become the majority distributor of cuban cigars in the US once they become legal.


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## csbrewfisher (Aug 6, 2008)

It wouldn't make a difference to me. Although I like most (not all) CCs I've had, someone else has had to make the purchase and age them through their "sick period", and God bless them for that. I know a brother with 8 coolerdors for exactly that.

I personally do not have the money, storage or patience to tolerate cigar purchases that include a sick period. I like the minimum aging necessary with most NCs, and there are some damn fine ones out there. I appreciate that those factories age their tobaccos through fermentation before rolling. It seems that if they don't, then they store the sticks for a time. As a result, I've never had to age a premium NC for more than a couple of months. I have the patience for that.

Realistically, I think the resulting competition from lifting of the embargo will make NCs better and cheaper.


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## Smokin Gator (Aug 17, 2008)

If (when) Cuban cigars were legalized... my bank account will go down dramatically initially. Then it will recover.

We Americans tend to be very egocentric. We (incorrectly) think that we smoke most of the worlds cigars. I seriously doubt that. Being that so many of CCs already end up here, I don't think it would be that big of a deal long term.:2


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## Blueface (May 28, 2005)

hoax said:


> I don't get why people keep saying Cuba is maxed out on tobacco production. They may be under a Communist economic model. But if history has taught us one thing is that there is always room for improvement when you apply a little Capitalism.


In this case, the Communist model is really not holding it down.
The land can only produce so much tobacco annually.
Once that is cultivated, until the next crop, can't do much to increase production.
They are truly at max and if they could, would no doubt produce more.


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## lethalphoenix (Mar 25, 2008)

i went to smoker friendly today to check the place out...the guy said " CUBAN ROBUSTOS " are real cuban cigars....I died inside...:hn


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## nuke999 (Nov 10, 2006)

I would give Cuban cigars the same fair test I've given every other cigar. I would probably end up buying a few boxes but I will always have Oliva, Don Pepin, and Padron in my humidor no matter what.


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## robofan (Jun 7, 2008)

The last stats I seen put the world wide premium cigar market at around 440 million cigars for 2008. Half of that or 220 million is the US market. Of the rest of the world another 220 million Cuban cigars hold about an 80% market share or 176 million cigars. One would have to believe that eventually Cubans would reach the 80% market share here as well but even if it's only half that much 40% that would increase demand for Cuban cigars by 88 million cigars or 50% overnight. That would cause prices to sky rocket and quality to drop for several years until Cuban production could catch up.

In the mean time the Cubans have a long time established distribution system which consists of a single distributer for a country or region. That distributer usually establishes or owns a limited number of retailers only in the largest cities and as much as possible under the name La Casa del Habana. If they follow the same pattern in the US it would mean that there would be only a handful of retail stores from which you could buy real Cuban cigars. Huge demand and very limited supply.

Since there are literally tens of thousands of local B&M in the US and they would all want to sell Cuban cigars I believe it would lead to counterfeit cigars being sold on a scale that has never been seen before. Most people would rush to their local B&M buy up a bunch of fakes, smoke them and think whats the big deal.

So no mater how you cut it because of the relative size of the US market if Cuban cigars were legalized it would result in a world wide cigar calamity for the next 5 to 10 years until everything reached a new equilibrium.


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## One Lonely Smoker (Jan 21, 2005)

robofan said:


> Since there are literally tens of thousands of local B&M in the US and they would all want to sell Cuban cigars I believe it would lead to counterfeit cigars being sold on a scale that has never been seen before. Most people would rush to their local B&M buy up a bunch of fakes, smoke them and think whats the big deal.


 Fits my own theory to a T, but the last bit makes me think your theory is better at describing the re-balancing of demand. I think you are right..."Eh, tastes the same to me...I guess I'll go back to Nics."


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## audio1der (Mar 8, 2006)

robofan said:


> Since there are literally tens of thousands of local B&M in the US and they would all want to sell Cuban cigars I believe it would lead to counterfeit cigars being sold on a scale that has never been seen before. Most people would rush to their local B&M buy up a bunch of fakes, smoke them and think whats the big deal.
> 
> So no mater how you cut it because of the relative size of the US market if Cuban cigars were legalized it would result in a world wide cigar calamity for the next 5 to 10 years until everything reached a new equilibrium.


Good point; I had not thought of that!


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## Footbag (May 14, 2008)

Just a little info that I happen to know off the top of my head...

In 1997, Bill Clinton lifted the embargo on three items from Iran. Cashews, Persian Rugs and Caviar. 

Caviar production was ramped up, and within two years; Iranian caviar quality was considered to be as good or better then it's Russian counterpart. In this case, both share the Caspian Sea as a harvesting ground. 

Persian rugs have dropped considerably in quality. In my opinion, the finest rugs being made in the middle east are coming from Pakistan. Many rug weavers had fled from the country during the embargo and others never passed the trade on to the next generation.

Both examples have glaring similarities to the situation as it stands in Cuba. That said, I don't think we can figure out what really would happen. We can just get an idea of what could happen.


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## mosesbotbol (Sep 21, 2005)

One Lonely Smoker said:


> Two words..............Shipping costs. 90 miles versus.....an ocean.


Shipping is not expensive (per box) when you are talking containers.


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## mosesbotbol (Sep 21, 2005)

sjnovakovich said:


> I respectfully disagree. I am not comparing apples to oranges, I am comparing cigars to cigars; both are made of tobacco, and both have a filler, binder, and a wrapper.
> 
> The point that I was illustrating is that, in my opinion, most non-Cuban brands are as good as, if not better than most Cuban brands.
> 
> Steve


In respect to curing and construction; sure NC cigars are on par with Habanos, but that is where it ends. Cuba's soil makes for unique tobacco experience that can't be replicated anywhere. The consumer has shown their preference for decades, and I think that will remain. In European cigar shops, I'd say Habanos makes up for about 60% of the market with Davidoff lines and then Fuente lines trailing.

Which would you rather spend $15 on: a Monte #2 or Fuente Hemingway?


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## LiveDog (Oct 20, 2008)

I have never smoked a non Cuban cigar!

Vive Le Cubana!!!!!

:ss :tu :ss :ss :tu :ss


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## K Baz (Mar 2, 2007)

I have been thinking about this for a bit. I think for the most part I can not answer it, because I am thinking about it like those cigar smokers I know think about it - not how the average smoker is thinking about it.

We all hang with some pretty high level cigar smokers Canadians that "import" non cubans in and some US smokers that are "import" cubans in. I personally think the average smoker that has access to cubans (outside the US) will continue to smoke them due to taxes (i.e. a Monte 2008 EL is still cheaper by 20 $ + than an Opus X and 4 times easy to get) and the average smoker in the US will add cubans to there weekly pick ups. 

Most likely they will still keep their standards but the novelty of picking up a Cohiba will definatly factor and if the average american smoker picks up 2 smokes a week and every B&M and internet retalor stocking a couple of boxes to create a extreme shortage where stock is already tight. Also I can only assume that this attention on cigars will also create at least a short term mini boom in the cigar world as the lifting of the embargo will draw lots of attention to the cigar world.

As for the comparison cuban cigars are cuban cigars because of the soil and the seed the rollers do effect the quality of the cigar but not the leaf (thats the farmer) personally I think in the decades since the exodus they have been able to "train" new rollers/farmers and the cigars as as great as they ever were - of course ignoring the boom due to the lack of rollers. Personally I think the last 3 years the quality has been exceptional and I believe there are 100s of threads which reinforce this.

Smoke what you like but if it was me I would stock up if I saw an end to the embargo. But who am I kidding I use any excuse to stock up.


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## Totemic (Jun 2, 2008)

Personally, I'm looking forward to it.
Initially the NC prices will either stagnate or drop, which means I can get the cigars that I currently smoke at the same or lower price.

I doubt there will be as much of a demand increase as during the cigar boom. The culture in the US just won't support it. Right now, there's a LOT more anti-smoking push then there were in the early 90's. I remember the 90's when celebrities would smoke cigars publically and it was considered "cool". Today, I don't think it would be same.

I suspect CC quality and prices will jump initially, but if the embargo is removed, the infrastructure of Cuba will also improve which would also help increase production (more/bigger factories, better agriculture improvements, etc..) which would mitigate it some, but the increase would still be there, just not as bad as folks believe.

But within 3 to 5 years, things will stabilize and CC will become nothing more than another type of cigar similar to what we have with Nic, DR, Honduras, etc.. cigars.

As others have pointed out, there would also be interesting hybrids consisting of different fillers/binders/wrappers. Overall, I think the cigar ecology will improve.


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