# rad davis' new webpage



## IHT (Dec 27, 2003)

check it out.
discuss amongst yourselves.


----------



## IHT (Dec 27, 2003)

is it me, or did his prices shoot up about $100 per pipe over the past few months???


----------



## Thillium (Jan 14, 2008)

Price compensation for quality?


----------



## IHT (Dec 27, 2003)

i was gonna rant about some stuff, but have thought better of it.


----------



## kheffelf (Jul 31, 2006)

IHT said:


> i was gonna rant about some stuff, but have thought better of it.


I think I like the old site a little better, but yep I remember his pipes starting off about 240 and now the cheapest is 300. Great pipes though.


----------



## EvanS (Dec 29, 2006)

IHT said:


> i was gonna rant about some stuff, but have thought better of it.


go ahead Greg, we live for it 

This is NO comment on Rad's pipes, especially since I don't own one, but the increase has probably made it unlikely that I will be purchasing one anytime soon. Too many other makers out there that catch my eye and are more in the previous price range.

sigh......


----------



## IHT (Dec 27, 2003)

i was going to make a long comment again, but i won't. i'll just state that there is obviously a demand for his pipes, and whenever that demand wanes at whatever price point, _that_ is probably when the price stops going up.

i'm still holding back, and i'm surprised i haven't started rambling on about stuff (not aimed at his pipes/prices, but on general stuff). p i think i may treat myself to something today. :r


----------



## Kayak_Rat (Nov 28, 2005)

IHT said:


> i was going to make a long comment again, but i won't. i'll just state that there is obviously a demand for his pipes, and whenever that demand wanes at whatever price point, _that_ is probably when the price stops going up.
> 
> i'm still holding back, and i'm surprised i haven't started rambling on about stuff (not aimed at his pipes/prices, but on general stuff). p *i think i may treat myself to something today.* :r


A bath would be preferred, but I can always plug my nose.


----------



## Mad Hatter (Apr 8, 2007)

Apparently Rad understands the law of supply and demand. Saying nothing bad against Rad in any way because sometimes you have no choice. Last year I had the same problem with my work. I had an endless demand I could barely keep up with by working myself almost non-stop. Even though I thought my pricing was high enough as it was, raising prices was the only way I could cut back the demand being placed on me. Its better to have less business because your prices are too high than it is to turn customers away because you are too busy.

But please, go ahead and rant Greg. :r No one else is posting today and I need something to read.


----------



## kheffelf (Jul 31, 2006)

Oh come on Greg, we love your rants. I am a little disappointed in Rad for a couple reasons that you know of. But every email I have exchanged with the guy were pretty positive. I do find it kind of hard to believe he would do a forum pipe though after what happened there.


----------



## IHT (Dec 27, 2003)

don't read into this that i was going to rant about the quality of his pipes...


----------



## icculus1946 (Apr 24, 2006)

Dish it!


----------



## icculus1946 (Apr 24, 2006)

kheffelf said:


> Oh come on Greg, we love your rants. I am a little disappointed in Rad for a couple reasons that you know of. But every email I have exchanged with the guy were pretty positive. I do find it kind of hard to believe he would do a forum pipe though after what happened there.


You too please!


----------



## Mad Hatter (Apr 8, 2007)

IHT said:


> don't read into this that i was going to rant about the quality of his pipes...


We know you've got better form than that. Didn't take it that way in the least.


----------



## kheffelf (Jul 31, 2006)

Rad is a great guy and excellent carver. I have had a couple email exchanges with him and have nothing bad to say about him as a person. The one pipe that I did own that he made was great. My one major complaint with him is the huge price increase as of lately. Everything else I am not going to say with respect to Rad. Just to let everyone know I was just giving Greg a hard time about his rants, it really had nothing to do with his rant on Rad, because I know Greg enjoys the Rad that was given to him.


----------



## Mr Mojo Risin (May 26, 2007)

Its better to have less business because your prices are too high than it is to turn customers away because you are too busy.

I think you would have more customers wanting to wait to get their pipes. Than wanting to pay higher prices.:2Brian


----------



## Mad Hatter (Apr 8, 2007)

Mr Mojo Risin said:


> I think you would have more customers wanting to wait to get their pipes. Than wanting to pay higher prices.:2Brian


Common sense would say that. Experience doesn't. Besides, if you could sell 4 pipes for $400 or the same 4 pipes for $1600, which would you choose, especially if you figure in the added benefit of a far more comfortable work schedule, less margin for errors, less likelihood of burnout and no pressure from backlogged customers complaining because they had to wait a year on a commissioned work. When he gets to the point where the pipes he's making aren't selling as fast as the rate he wants to produce them then he can lower the prices or run a sale. There's a lot to be said for not constantly having responsibility hanging above your head.


----------



## SAjunidog (Oct 1, 2007)

Mad Hatter said:


> Common sense would say that. Experience doesn't.


And neither does basic economics. It sucks, since they're beautiful pipes and it'd be nice to have one but they're now too expensive for me (an apparently others) but you really can't fault the guy.


----------



## tedski (Oct 1, 2004)

Nice update on the site. As far as prices go ... you aren't really paying extra for the name (like Dunhill or Bo Nordh), so in this case it's just the going rate for quality of wood, design and construction. Supply and demand are the great equalizers .... blah, blah, blah.

I do think his sandblast work is among the best out there though.


----------



## bonggoy (Mar 9, 2006)

For a while, people on another board where pretty much begging Rad Davis to increase his price. They were saying things like, "best bargain in the market", "Better than pipes that cost thousands of dollars", etc.

Coming from the cigar world, this is like telling Habanos SA to increase the prices on [put a cigar here who you think is underpriced] because they are better than they are priced.

I own 3 of his pipe and I am glad I bought them when they were cheap(er). I don't think I can afford his prices now.


----------



## dogsplayinpoker (Jan 23, 2007)

Mad Hatter said:


> Common sense would say that. Experience doesn't. Besides, if you could sell 4 pipes for $400 or the same 4 pipes for $1600, which would you choose, especially if you figure in the added benefit of a far more comfortable work schedule, less margin for errors, less likelihood of burnout and no pressure from backlogged customers complaining because they had to wait a year on a commissioned work. When he gets to the point where the pipes he's making aren't selling as fast as the rate he wants to produce them then he can lower the prices or run a sale. There's a lot to be said for not constantly having responsibility hanging above your head.


Exactly. I may be in the minority in todays working world, but when I get a raise I actually want it to be for something I am doing well. A reciprocation for a job done better because of my skills or work ethic. Rads skills have skyrocketed in the past few years and if that means that he can, or has to raise prices, more power to him. Yeah, it may be out of my range excepting special occasions but sometimes it is quality over quantity.


----------



## icculus1946 (Apr 24, 2006)

Check out his ASP POY for some "old school" pricing. This year's shape is the belge.


----------



## kheffelf (Jul 31, 2006)

dogsplayinpoker said:


> Exactly. I may be in the minority in todays working world, but when I get a raise I actually want it to be for something I am doing well. A reciprocation for a job done better because of my skills or work ethic. Rads skills have skyrocketed in the past few years and if that means that he can, or has to raise prices, *more power to him*. Yeah, it may be out of my range excepting special occasions but sometimes it is quality over quantity.


Really?


----------



## IHT (Dec 27, 2003)

IHT said:


> don't read into this that i was going to rant about the quality of his pipes...


just to expand:
i smoked my rad davis on the drive back into work after lunch w/ some Three Nuns. Excellent smoke on both fronts (pipe and tobac). i love my rad davis squashed tomato black blast.

he makes excellent pipes, beautiful and smoke well.

i have nothing against the quality of his pipes (they're great), don't really mind him raising his prices either (although i can't afford them now). i'm sure he could DOUBLE his current prices and still sell all his pipes in a timely manner, but it won't mean that they're any higher quality (hard to improve perfection).
supply and demand.
are they really _worth_ that much? well, in my opinion (and that's all it is, and you all have yours as well), no. it's a block of wood with two holes, a small piece of shaped ebonite with a hole drilled through it, you put tobacco in there and smoke it.
quality hand made products cost money, no doubt. but does his block of briar cost that much? nah, probably less than $50 per block, and the 2" piece of ebonite is probably less than $1, the tiny bit of stain - a few cents, the small amount of electricity used to drill/sandblast/sand/etc is about a buck... so, under $60 for the amount of product put into it, if that. then factor in craftmanship and time. if he feels that he should be paid $100/hr for his work (guess), then a $500 pipe is what we'll have to pay for.
and that's not _just_ mr. davis, i'm talking the pipe making community as a whole (one of which i'd love to be a part of - if i had those skills, which i may, but never been able to give it a twirl).

i was just making an observation that his prices had noticeably jumped. no big deal, just an observation on my part.

i know some of you know him and talk to him via email and PM on other sites. if you're running back and saying, "_X_ member on clubstogie is dogging on your prices." well, invite him over here to read for himself and interpret, we'd love to have him.
nobody is against him and his prices, we're all for his great pipes, as most of us would love to own them and simply now can't afford them. which sucks.

edit: great conversation as well, nice views on the reasons. i can't argue with any of them.


----------



## Slow Triathlete (Jun 14, 2007)

I could never justify paying that much for a pipe. I'd rather pay around $100 dollars for a pipe and then spend $200 on tobacco.


----------



## jgros001 (Jun 14, 2005)

There are a couple of threads on ASP about this topic....not Rad Davis but in general the price of handmade pipes. Also, check out the first page of Bruce Weaver's website. There are good points on both sides of this debate.

http://groups.google.com/group/alt....79bdf397cee/e0e2965ac21f22c1#e0e2965ac21f22c1

http://groups.google.com/group/alt....81/95095259a02f575a?lnk=raot#95095259a02f575a


----------



## dogsplayinpoker (Jan 23, 2007)

kheffelf said:


> Really?


Yep really. If the market(not just one smoker but the whole community) justifies a certain price, a craftsman would have to be an idiot not to keep his prices in line with current value. I understand being true to your core customers and Rad does this with heavily discounted prices for different forum pipes.But, not to profit from the fruition of years of hard work and the benefit of some market turns would be ...un-American... just my :2


----------



## Mad Hatter (Apr 8, 2007)

dogsplayinpoker said:


> Yep really. If the market(not just one smoker but the whole community) justifies a certain price, a craftsman would have to be an idiot not to keep his prices in line with current value. I understand being true to your core customers and Rad does this with heavily discounted prices for different forum pipes.But, not to profit from the fruition of years of hard work and the benefit of some market turns would be ...un-American... just my :2


I'm totally down with what ya got to say Dogs. Personally (and even tho I don't know Rad, nor have I ever exchanged PMs with him) I'm happy for Rad that he has acheived a status where his pipes are moving beyond the price range of the "every day" smoker. I know it's all because of his commitment to excellence and lots of hard work and devotion. :tu to you, Rad!


----------



## IHT (Dec 27, 2003)

can't argue with what you guys are saying and i agree. if he can charge that much or more and still sell them at a decent clip, then good for him - i agree, it's capitalism.


----------



## Kayak_Rat (Nov 28, 2005)

Just to add from talking to a few other pipe makers about the subject:

The pipes he sends out are almost flawless(ALMOST). The percetage of blocks that have such a grain or build is low. Consider it takes 5 blocks of average/below average briar to get one that outstanding. At $50 per block, thats $250 right there, not figuring in time for stems, polishing, sandblasting, electricity, etc. 

Also, there is the whole resale value. How many of his pipes sell on ebay in a given month? Maybe not for a profit, but for close to paid price. There may not be alot of people here who look at pipes as an investment, but people who pay IHT Money for pipes might. Then there is the people who just like to have quality. "Why buy a Remington from Cabelas when you can get an off brand from wally world?" 
CRAFTSMANSHIP
Most people can spot the difference in good craftsmanship and quality just by looking.

Just a few thoughts to throw in the stew. Very good discussion.


----------



## IHT (Dec 27, 2003)

jgros001 said:


> There are a couple of threads on ASP about this topic....not Rad Davis but in general the price of handmade pipes. Also, check out the first page of Bruce Weaver's website. There are good points on both sides of this debate.
> 
> http://groups.google.com/group/alt....79bdf397cee/e0e2965ac21f22c1#e0e2965ac21f22c1
> 
> http://groups.google.com/group/alt....81/95095259a02f575a?lnk=raot#95095259a02f575a


jeff, you fluck up wet dreams with all this "research" and helpful posts you keep putting up in the pipe forum. you keep that up, you'll be banished back to the cigar area.
:r

excellent work, yet again, my man. thanks for the read. oddly enough, i was on b.a.weavers site last night and just didn't read the front page. after doing so tonight, i may have to wait until he makes a pipe that catches my eye. i like his attitude, as that would be mine if i were a maker. i'd be happy as fluck if i were to put out a product and sell 'em for $50 a piece if ppl were satisfied with them.


----------



## kheffelf (Jul 31, 2006)

dogsplayinpoker said:


> Yep really. If the market(not just one smoker but the whole community) justifies a certain price, a craftsman would have to be an idiot not to keep his prices in line with current value. I understand being true to your core customers and Rad does this with heavily discounted prices for different forum pipes.But, not to profit from the fruition of years of hard work and the benefit of some market turns would be ...un-American... just my :2


You are right, but I can't stand seeing his pipes go up by about 60 bucks. I was just kind of giving you a hard time. His forum pipes by the way aren't that heavily discounted. This is the price where he should probably sell his pipes for. Also just to say, his price on his forum pipes have gone up a little bit as well. I just think it sucks that they charge so much for their pipes, that goes for almost every NAC. There are some great pipes out there for less and around the same that have been reputation and been around longer.


----------



## jgros001 (Jun 14, 2005)

IHT said:


> jeff, you fluck up wet dreams with all this "research" and helpful posts you keep putting up in the pipe forum. you keep that up, you'll be banished back to the cigar area.
> :r
> 
> excellent work, yet again, my man. thanks for the read. oddly enough, i was on b.a.weavers site last night and just didn't read the front page. after doing so tonight, i may have to wait until he makes a pipe that catches my eye. i like his attitude, as that would be mine if i were a maker. i'd be happy as fluck if i were to put out a product and sell 'em for $50 a piece if ppl were satisfied with them.


Yeah, my next two purchases will probably be Weaver and GRC because I really like their attitudes and having the guts to speak out about what they believe (whether right or wrong)....hell, if I had not made too many purchases already, I would've clicked the buy button by now. As far as the rest, thanks! That's what it is all about if you are going to call this a hobby, I can't get enough of the information. As far as the ASP pipes, I can't believe there are still two available from Joel Shapiro, he's got two awesome pokers available from '07...and at $140 a bargain for a NAC.


----------



## dogsplayinpoker (Jan 23, 2007)

kheffelf said:


> I just think it sucks that they charge so much for their pipes, that goes for almost every NAC. There are some great pipes out there for less and around the same that have been reputation and been around longer.


Quite a few of the NAC are VERY high. Ruthenberg, J Davis... to name a couple. But, their update pipes never stay available for more than a few hours at most. So someone is buying these pipes, at these prices, incredibly fast. It ain't me:r I like K Rats example of the "off-the-shelf" shotgun compared to the higher market guns. Last year I decided I would finally splurge and buy myself a quality gun. I pored over websites. FingeredD) every shotgun in Wally world, Dicks, Sportsmans Warehouse, etc and came to a well researched, some would say obsessive, decision on which to purchase. The lower priced guns were probably fine. They just had little things here and there that turned me off to them. I was being extremely picky but I was going to be dropping a good bit of cash. I wanted the absolute best my money could buy. I am guessing that the folks who buy these pipes in the $500 and up range do the same.


----------



## hyper_dermic (Dec 17, 2006)

Well, with the price increase R. Davis now has new competetion. Now when looking at his pipes, you have other carvers in the same price range. Jacking up prices means hes stepping into the ring with new opponents. I wish him the best of luck 

Personally there are certain carvers/companies that i think are well worth the 3-500, and 500+ price points, and some certainly are NOT. (yet they sell at that price point anyways.)
When comparing a mid/high grade pipe to a lower grade one, the difference is night and day. You pay for perfection, style, and craftsmanship. 

I have yet to buy a Davis pipe... Raising the prices makes it harder for me to buy one now, as there are more people he is competing with.. but i suppose he thinks his name carries enough weight now.

People seem to be a bit taken back by the prices of pipes and tobacco going up.. But its what needs to happen to allow the hobby to survive. Noone smokes pipes anymore. The hobby is fading away. If we dont support these carvers, and tobacco suppliers.. none will be left.

thats why i dont mind spending the extra $$ on a higher-end hand carved pipe. in 10 years there may not be ANY quality carvers left. Theres just no market for it anymore. The lower end machine made pipes will always exist. but i cant say the same for the beautiful high-end pipes.


-hyp


----------



## SAjunidog (Oct 1, 2007)

hyper_dermic said:


> Well, with the price increase R. Davis now has new competetion. Now when looking at his pipes, you have other carvers in the same price range. Jacking up prices means hes stepping into the ring with new opponents. I wish him the best of luck
> 
> Personally there are certain carvers/companies that i think are well worth the 3-500, and 500+ price points, and some certainly are NOT. (yet they sell at that price point anyways.)
> When comparing a mid/high grade pipe to a lower grade one, the difference is night and day. You pay for perfection, style, and craftsmanship.
> ...


I kind of have to agree. Usually I'd say high prices will keep the market from growing and may be the reason there are so few pipers, but since there will always be cobs and the cheaper medico-stanwell lines (medico being the bottom, stanwell being the top, thats certainly not a knock on stannies) the high prices seem like they can actually be a good thing.


----------



## joed (Nov 12, 2005)

bonggoy said:


> For a while, people on another board where pretty much begging Rad Davis to increase his price. They were saying things like, "best bargain in the market", "Better than pipes that cost thousands of dollars", etc.
> 
> Coming from the cigar world, this is like telling Habanos SA to increase the prices on [put a cigar here who you think is underpriced] because they are better than they are priced.
> 
> I own 3 of his pipe and I am glad I bought them when they were cheap(er). I don't think I can afford his prices now.


One thing that shouldn't be overlooked - Rad's pipes have a *viable* secondary market -

Lots of great carvers out there - many folks will tell you that they have pipes that smoke better than Rad's. I say maybe.

But smoke that one for two years and then try and sell it for what you paid for it - or in my case through another site - more than you paid for it new - and it is a bargain to the person that bought it.

I don't have too many pipes that I smoked for 2 years and then made a good deal when selling it - Do you?


----------



## bonggoy (Mar 9, 2006)

joed said:


> I don't have too many pipes that I smoked for 2 years and then made a good deal when selling it - Do you?


Very good point Joe. I've witnessed first hand how fast Rad Davis sells in the estate market.

I only use Rad Davis because some of his clients were the most vocal about the value of his pipes. I hear the same cries, albeit to a lesser degree, about Lasse Skovgaard.


----------

