# Mark @ Smokey Joes can Kiss My **S



## smelvis (Sep 7, 2009)

Four times I have tried to call everyone say's I need Mark and I tried to talk to him regarding a purchase of an ST Dupont that went bad, four time he ignored me twice he was there but was to busy to talk. I am not asking for anything for free. I simply want the Dupont reps name to fix this damn thing.

Right now it will be a cold day in hell before I ever return and spend a nickle at Smokey Joes in Fife Washington.


Long story short I sent my Face extend in for repairs 1st I had to pay $55 to repair a lighter that was well within it's warranty period. Then the F***Ker came back working worse than when I sent it in and the scumbag repair people are ignoring my emails.

I need the rep, I am pissed the good thing is I am retired and have a lot of time to waste writing complaints ect. Smokey Joes customer service is not your strong suit.

For you guy's that meet there sorry I never made it much anyway but I am now going to Snoqualmie never again at smokey joes ever!


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## smelvis (Sep 7, 2009)

I guess they could tell I was upset, someone other than Mark called wouldn't give me the reps name but told me all they would do is have me deal with the service dept. I told him I already did and they charged me and made it worse and now won't even answer my emails. So I am done with Smokey Joes and I am done with Dupont. So I put on my Zen face calmed down and fixed the lighter myself. looks good nice and artsy huh


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## szyzk (Nov 27, 2010)

Dave, any stores in the same region will have the same rep. Call the other shop, explain your situation and let them know they have a new customer in you because of how you were treated, and then ask for the rep's name. They should be happy to supply that info to you!

Sorry to hear about the troubles with the lighter. We only carry Xikar, or else I'd do what I could to help out!

Edit: HOLY CRAP, what did you do, chew on that thing??? :lol:


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## ssutton219 (Apr 17, 2007)

Damn dave hate to hear about bad service from a B&M and then from the lighter service...but i think you did some amazing work on the lighter and can't say i would of done any better...actually my Evertorch ended up in the firepit a few weeks ago after not being able to get it working again..


The Troll


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## smelvis (Sep 7, 2009)

I fixed it myself I am looking for a job if you know any repair shops


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## szyzk (Nov 27, 2010)

smelvis said:


> I fixed it myself I am looking for a job if you know any repair shops


If I was wealthy I'd hire you!


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## FridayGt (Oct 24, 2010)

Hahahaha, now that is damn fine stress relief!

On a more serious note, I think everyone here is more than well aware of what kind of a serious customer you are when it comes to your hobby of tobacco and I would have thought that a prudent business would have wanted to ensure that the best way possible. It's at least nice to hear that they called you back, but to have blown you off like that to begin with and still not have him directly call you back to apologize is sad to hear.


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## socalocmatt (Dec 22, 2010)

Sucks that they treated you like that and that lighter stopped working for you. At least now it is a piece of fine art! Hopefully there will be some sort of possitive resolution for you.


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## smelvis (Sep 7, 2009)

socalocmatt said:


> Sucks that they treated you like that and that lighter stopped working for you. At least now it is a piece of fine art! Hopefully there will be some sort of possitive resolution for you.


Sure there is I am retired and am going on a Herf across America Road Trip, I figure I can tell this story at least a few times a day. Oh and anyone who sells dupont B & M wise I will be sure and tell them that is why I am not spending any money at their store. I will write a few letters and use them as a copy and figure I can send at least a few hundred a year explaining how well Dupont treats their customers on a six month or so old $400 lighters. sure I plan on having lots of fun with this. 

Now off to the better Business bureau gotta start somewhere.


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## smelvis (Sep 7, 2009)

Ist Complaint 9,999 to go. 

Better Business Bureau®
Start With Trust | Online Complaint System

BBB.org
Contact Us

Step 1:
Nature of Complaint
Step 2:
Find Business
Step 3:
Your Info
Step 4:
Your Complaint
Step 5:
Additional Details
Step 6:
Review & Submit

Your Information

Title: Mr.
First Name: david
Last Name: bonnette
Country: UNITED STATES
Address: po box 3563
City/Town: bellevue
State/Province/Region: WA
ZIP/Postal Code/Postcode: 98009
Daytime Phone: 425-590-9750
Email: [email protected]
Age: 51
Gender: Male

Business Information

Name: Smokey Joe's Cigar Lounge
Address: 4411 Pacific Hwy E
City: Fife
State: WA
Zip/Postal Code: 98424

Complaint Information

Complaint Type: Guarantee Or Warranty Issues
Description of Complaint: I bought a custom made ST Dupont Face lighter set for about $350 on sale. The lighter, I sent it to the warranty center for repairs the charged me $55 on a manufacturer defect. The mailed the lighter back in a worse condition than when I sent it,The warranty center failed or ignored my emails and smokey joes where I bought the lighter did not return my phone calls after four attempts I finally got a call back. They would not give me the ST Duponts reps information. They said he would just say I had to deal with the warranty center.I told him the warranty center is the one who made it worse and they would not return my emails or calls. We left it at that as Smokey Joes was not going to stand behind their product nor would they help with giving me the contact information to someone who could help,We ended the call after I wished him a nice life even though I wanted to say something stronger. That is the story we have a merchant who won''t back a product and are even unwilling to help a good customer try to get help from the manufacturer.I simply feel like I am in the movie the groundhog day where everything happens the same every day. At best it is a scam of the merchant selling high dollar lighters and working with the manufacturer by not helping with repairs.I plan on never going back and asking our club to have our meetings at another cigar bar, maybe one with integrity and customer service.
Desired Settlement: No settlement requested - for BBB information only
Desired Outcome Description: For this complaint to stay in the BBB files as a warning to others to not expect any kinds of customer service once he sale has been made. In other words once they have your money they do not want or need you anymore.I also ask other to vote against cigar bars on reservations to lose the tax exempt status which is unfair to other cigar lounges wh do have to pay taxes.Dave Bonnette


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## slimjim32 (Sep 16, 2010)

smelvis said:


> the good thing is I am retired and have a lot of time to waste writing complaints ect. Smokey Joes customer service is not your strong suit.


I found that hilarious...sorry to hear about your misfortune though. It's too bad that there are companies like this out there that don't seem to care enough...


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## relaxnsmoke (Mar 24, 2003)

I'm with you on this and am extremely glad you made your post. I hate to hear about people in the cigar community getting jacked around and situations like this create ill will amongst all of us. If Mark or S.T. Dupont are enthusiasts as well as good business people in the community they should of already spotted this thread. 

I would send this thread to Tatuaje too. That is their logo on that lighter. Too bad about Smokey Joes & S.T. Dupont. Smokey Joes has such a great selection of cigars and I've usually had a very positive experience the few times I've visited. Between the three principles involved in this transaction (Tatuaje/Smokey Joes/S.T. Dupont) I believe they shoud do a BOTL a fair return on the purchase gone completely wrong. 

You have every right to be upset. I really hate to see these sort of transactions fester in the cigar community, you aren't asking for anything other than fair value for your money. Here in this thread they can make it right for all to see.

Good Luck to you in all of your future endeavors,


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## socalocmatt (Dec 22, 2010)

smelvis said:


> Now off to the better Business bureau gotta start somewhere.


Dont forget to share your experience with the Yelp community: Smokey Joe's Cigar Lounge - Fife, WA

(might wanna double check that this is the right one first)


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## Michigan_Moose (Oct 11, 2011)

Looks like something I would do!

I am very glad I read this, I for one can say I back my friends before a company. I am sure that you have been honest with us. You have no reason to not be.
I guess it wont be a S.t. DuPont for me.


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## StogieNinja (Jul 29, 2009)

Dave, sorry to hear about your troubles, man. I remember how excited you were when you bought that lighter!


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## jphank (Apr 29, 2012)

What a drag! What horrid behavior from the store and the company. I hope you find a new lighter that wins you over so you can recover!


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## smelvis (Sep 7, 2009)

The silly part is at first all I wanted was the ST Duponts reps name and info, Then they avoided four messages and yes I was a good customer and otherwise loved the place. When the guy called back and told me what the rep would say but wouldn't give me the info I knew then it was simply buddies covering buddies. Oh he did say they may stop carrying their product, yeah right! As you can see I do take things personal see the lighter, I needed the problem to go away so I made it go away.

I know our group will probably still go there but they will go without me. I don't know how I feel about that. I guess I will just live with it. If it was someone else this happened to I would stand behind my bud, but I have to understand not everyone feels the same as me. I won't hold it against anyone  I may not invite you over again but we all have the right to feel however you wish. no hard feelings.


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## longburn (Mar 28, 2009)

Wow, incredible that a lighter would cost that much to begin with....and then not work?! AND THEN, they don't fix it or call you back? Has anyone heard of anyone else having similar problems with this brand of lighter? I know it's not following proper purist afficianado protocol but i've got a 1964 zippo and it's never failed. My dad owned it and I got it when he died and use it every day.


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## WyldKnyght (Apr 1, 2011)

WTG Dave, 

That sure looked like some fun anger release, I mean management you had going. I for one witll back you will not buy any Dupont Lighter and buy from Smokey Joe's either. As some day I too in my long time coming retirment would love to travel across Canada and the US. 

WyldKnyght


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## KcJason1 (Oct 20, 2010)

It needs some bullet holes!


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## Matt4370 (Jan 14, 2012)

KcJason1 said:


> It needs some bullet holes!


+1

Sorry for all the crap you had to endure with this Dave. Piss on them and their crappy lighter!


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## vert1276 (Apr 28, 2012)

Remind me never to get on your bad side.......:bolt:


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## ejgarnut (Sep 28, 2009)

sorry about the treatment they are giving you, and the lighter f'ing up on you too Dave



smelvis said:


> I needed the problem to go away so I made it go away.


i read this & could only laugh & say hell yeah!

reminds me of the time i took a mattock to my old station wagon lol..


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## AlohaStyle (Jun 30, 2009)

First of all I will say it sucks to buy something nice and not have it work to your satisfaction, then feel like a company is not taking care of you. I get that. However, this thread is really disappointing for numerous reasons. Reading this thread was very eye opening and I'm having a hard time that someone local to the Seattle area would post a thread like this, especially submitting a complaint to the BBB with a solution complaining about our only freedom of smoking in this state... a lounge on an Indian Reservation. Then proceeding to say he will stop going to this lounge... for a lounge on a different Indian Reservation... oh the irony.

I frequent Smokey Joes because it is the best lounge in the State, and one of only 3 lounges in the Seattle/Tacoma metro area where we are allowed to legally smoke (because they are on Reservations)... besides paying crazy fees to be a member of an exclusive club in Seattle. Over time, I have gotten to know the tobacconist manager Mark and have learned he is one of the most genuine, nice, respectful and giving persons to customers... not only his regulars, but to Joe Blow off the street. I have personally witnessed rude customers demanding discount after discount with Mark simply putting his smile on trying to do the best he could. He gave one of these rude customers a great discount on a God of Fire jar because that person said his friends wedding was coming up and wanted something special. The following month, the same customer came back asking for the same discount on another high end cigar box for a wedding. Then the next month the same guy and his friend came back asking for another wedding discount. Mark simply puts his smile on and accepts any customer, no matter how annoyed he is.

I didn't respond to this thread until I got the other side of this story. I asked Mark and the other tobacconist Dirk what happened. Mark is the main manager and has a different day job Monday - Friday, then comes to the lounge in the evenings after 6:30pm. Mark said he never personally spoke to Dave about the issue but did receive phone calls from Dirk asking what to do. They truly did feel bad and wanted to help as much they could. Mark said that Dave purchased the lighter on a good discount to start with... Mark doing something nice for a customer as usual. Later Dave notified the lounge that he was having problems. Mark said that Dupont has in their contract that the company will handle any and all product defects, not the vendor directly. The lounge has more freedom to work directly with the customer with other brands, but not Dupont. Mark contacted Dupont and their rep and was told they could not do anything and a customer needs to send into Dupont. So the lounge told Dave he needed to contact them directly. He sent the lighter in, they did some repair work and sent it back to Dave. Whatever the problem was with the lighter, Dave wasn't satisfied. He then called the lounge again asking for the rep's name and/or for the lounge to do something more about it. Dirk called the mgr Mark at his daytime job and asked what they could do, if anything. Mark said he spoke to the rep again and said they cannot do a thing about it as Dupont needs to handle it. Apparently this wasn't good enough for Dave. The rep could not do anything and would and did refer to Dupont.

Honestly, what more can a shop do? They were told by the rep and the manufacturer that it needs to be sent in, which did happen. Would you really expect a shop to personally give you a free $300+ lighter after it was seen and supposedly repaired by the manufacturer under warranty? 

They tried to help as much as reasonably possible. I don't know why you never spoke to Mark... maybe it was for the simple fact he was working his day job and told Dirk the only answers he had, and could give you. They called the rep on your behalf and was told flat out he wouldn't/couldn't do anything and for the customer to contact Dupont. 

Then after all this, you submit a BBB complaint? You then bring up complaints about tobacco shops on Indian Reservations, the only place we can legally smoke in this state? You then say screw Smokey Joes & Mark, I will never go there again, I will go to Lit Lounge. Lit Lounge is an Indian Reservation lounge... the same one you just complained about in your BBB complaint?

I am writing this not to try and change your mind Dave, but to let all other BOTLs know the other point of view and my personal opinion that this is the best shop in the state and well worth visiting. I had a BOTL visit from Charlotte last week and he said it was one of the best lounges he has ever visited, countrywide. He was given a free cigar by the staff as well... nice people. 

There are many Pacific Northwest BOTLs here on Puff and I hope you can all understand that not everything can go perfectly sometimes. Mark and Dirk did the best they could, and I understand that might not be good enough for some people. Calling out good people and a good shop to all of Puff is just wrong IMO... worse off is filing a BBB complaint against your biggest hobby possibly hurting the rest of Washington BOTLs.


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## smelvis (Sep 7, 2009)

Bullshit they ignored numerous phone calls and refused the only request was to get the local reps name and number, that is all I asked them.

I wanted to add that I just checked your posting history and it appears you use Puff almost exclusively to sell product why should what you say have any baring on something you get 2nd hand. Go sell some more cigars I am over them.


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## Mante (Dec 25, 2009)

> Honestly, what more can a shop do? They were told by the rep and the manufacturer that it needs to be sent in, which did happen. Would you really expect a shop to personally give you a free $300+ lighter after it was seen and supposedly repaired by the manufacturer under warranty?


As a business owner that is EXACTLY what I would do & have done so in the past! I would then take the product issue up personally with my supplier, suggesting if they cannot do better I will no longer be interested in stocking or selling any of their product line.

Most of the info you posted in that post is third hand & what you chose to hear from a vendor, Dave's info is first hand & I have a small penchant for believing what he posts as over my time here I have found him to be honest. You on the other hand I do not know.......Why are the owners not here defending themselves instead of you?

You have been here long enough Ryan to know that this should have been discussed in private with Dave.


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## Ron1369 (May 5, 2009)

It seems to mean that Dave is highly upset that he paid a lot for an item and it didn't work to his satisfaction which would be a normal reaction for any of us and you can't blame him for voicing his distaste in what was happening to him, but to call out and try to destroy the shop he bought the item from is not fair to the people who sold the item to him, if they did all they could do to get the thing repaired for him.
If he wants to bad mouth a company it should have been the DuPont company for not taking care of him the way he was expecting them to and not the small time shop that sold it to him.
It sounds like they did all they could do for the guy except to give him his money back for the item which to me is what Dave was really wanting to happen.
It really isn't their fault that the item isn't up to the standards of the customer but if they continue to have these types of problems then they should stop selling their products for DuPont.
That would be the next move the shop could make for the guy and others like him which would then open the eyes of DuPont to the dissatisfaction of their product.
That is only my opinion and I am not trying to put down Dave for what he is attempting to do to fix his problem.


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## smelvis (Sep 7, 2009)

Come on either read the thread and get it right or let it die, ALL I ASKED and wanted was a call back and the REPS number. If your gonna bitch at least get it right.

I will add again I also called four times and waited a good long while to get it figured out which is what we all do when we start a thread. I bought the lighter there not from dupont from smkey joes and all I wanted was a call back WITH the reps # :hand:


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## AlohaStyle (Jun 30, 2009)

Tashaz said:


> As a business owner that is EXACTLY what I would do & have done so in the past! I would then take the product issue up personally with my supplier, suggesting if they cannot do better I will no longer be interested in stocking or selling any of their product line.
> 
> Most of the info you posted in that post is third hand & what you chose to hear from a vendor, Dave's info is first hand & I have a small penchant for believing what he posts as over my time here I have found him to be honest. You on the other hand I do not know.......Why are the owners not here defending themselves instead of you?
> 
> You have been here long enough Ryan to know that this should have been discussed in private with Dave.


Brother, I agree with a lot of what you say and believe. I am not sure why Smokey Joe's wouldn't personally stand up with what they sell. They are not a high volume sales shop, more of a lounge where they provide a place for people to smoke, sell some cigars and a very small amount of accessories. My guess is that they chose not to absorb the money of dupont considering they don't sell many accessories and that they thought Dupont would take care of the problem. Maybe they thought Dupont sent it back fixed and thought what could be wrong with it? I don't know why. The 2 tobacconists have regular day jobs where they are busy and manage the cigars/accessories during the evenings and off time. The main manager runs the bar, restaurant and administrative duties and has nothing to do with the cigars/accessories. Maybe there was a disconnect of messages, who knows. This lounge is a great service to WA residents, not meant to be a high volume sales shop.

Regarding posting info 3rd hand vs 1st hand... I specifically said I am posting the lounge's version. I spoke directly to both tobacconists involved. Really there is no difference in the stories and what Dave said is true. But Dave assumes the shop was ignoring him when in reality, they were making phone calls to the manufacturer and the rep and was told there is nothing they could do besides sending it to Dupont, and that is what they told Dave. Maybe they didn't realize Dave absolutely wanted the reps contact info. They told Dave what the rep said, that he would tell the customer to contact Dupont and that is all the rep was willing to do. Maybe Mark never got the messages that Dave called again and again, I have no idea about that. What I do know is Mark is a standup guy and I have personally witnessed him being more than nice to asshole customers.

What I am upset about, is Dave publicly badmouthing this shop and filing a complaint to the BBB. Dave submitted an official complaint about the only legal public smoking lounge options available to WA residents... Indian Reservations. That hurts all BOTLs in WA. Why would a cigar smoker do that??? I understand being pissed and that you feel slighted, but what good would come of filing an official complaint against one of our few smoking freedoms left in this frickin state?

And regarding keeping it to PM's... Dave decided to make this public in a big way involving the BBB and forums, not I.


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## AlohaStyle (Jun 30, 2009)

And btw, there was a well-known Puff member sitting right next to me when I heard the lounge's version of this story. I am not making anything up 3rd hand. I am just venting my frustration on the BBB complaint and making this public and telling any and all BOTLs reading this thread that in my opinion, this is a great lounge.


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## smelvis (Sep 7, 2009)

The place is on an Indian casinos property smoking rules are different there and you know it. I waited a hell of a long time to take care of it way past the norm, I did not ask for anything unreasonable and did what every other thread where people had trouble with a vendor did. The fact that it's local and your favorite doesn't change anything. I did what was normal, I tried calling so many times and was told they (Mark) would call me back well over a month of trying to be reasonable. You think it's nut's I like the place myself and my friends go there so it was not an easy decision standing up for myself.

Don't play the only smoking card since WAC rules don't apply there. I did what was right and would do it again. Even though I will never set foot inside there again I still sent a couple friends from Puff there when they were in town a week or so ago. Additionally you keeping this thread at top is You hurting them at this point as I know I am over it and will keep my $500-$1,000 a year in my pocket.

I will say if any of my buds stop going now it's on you bud as the thread was buried until you brought it to the top.

Jeez how come you are not on any of the other couple dozen threads chastising a vendor.

Mods I will never ask for this type of thread to be closed but if you choose to I am oh so tired of it! but will answer anyone who say's I was wrong because I was not!


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## IBEW (Jan 17, 2009)

After reading both sides of the story, I am highly disappointed.
My disappointment is with the Smokey Joes and ST Dupont.
All that Mark had to do was furnish Dave with contact information, _not_ contact the rep on Dave's behalf, and for some reason they chose not to. Dave's anger is understood as he was wanting to personally resolve an issue with the company rep. Had Mark furnished that information, I'm sure that none of this complaint would have involved Smokey Joe's. When someone goes through the proper channels and sends an item for repair, the item is returned unsatisfactorily, the repair shop is not responding, it is only normal to get a company representative involved. I believe part of a rep's job is to represent a company and not hide from customers.

I once had a problem with an Oliva cigar. The company rep got involved and went above and beyond to make things right. Because of the way the rep handled the situation, Oliva now has a customer for life. I spend a lot more with Oliva than the price of this lighter. Realizing ST Dupont's rep did not take their product, or customer satisfaction seriously, I've decided against ever buying any of their products.

I find it interesting that several times it's mentioned about this being one of the only smoking lounges in the area and complaints should not be posted or filed. Does that make it right for a business to show no concern for satisfaction by refusing to give company contact information concerning a legitimate complaint? This just leads me to believe that because they are one of the few, they can get away with whatever they want.

After exhausting all available options, I believe Dave was well within his rights to post/file any and all complaints, and I applaud him for doing so.


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## smelvis (Sep 7, 2009)

IBEW said:


> After reading both sides of the story, I am highly disappointed.
> My disappointment is with the Smokey Joes and ST Dupont.
> All that Mark had to do was furnish Dave with contact information, _not_ contact the rep on Dave's behalf, and for some reason they chose not to. Dave's anger is understood as he was wanting to personally resolve an issue with the company rep. Had Mark furnished that information, I'm sure that none of this complaint would have involved Smokey Joe's. When someone goes through the proper channels and sends an item for repair, the item is returned unsatisfactorily, the repair shop is not responding, it is only normal to get a company representative involved. I believe part of a rep's job is to represent a company and not hide from customers.
> 
> ...


Exactly Thank You! Your right if he would have done that so I could try and fix it this thread would not exist. Thanks for seeing that bro!


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## AlohaStyle (Jun 30, 2009)

smelvis said:


> The place is on an Indian casinos property smoking rules are different there and you know it.
> 
> Don't play the only smoking card since WAC rules don't apply there.


What are you talking about? No kidding rules are different there... it's an Indian Reservation and is our only legal place to smoke in WA. Tell me where else can WA residents legally smoke in a public place? That's why I think it's crazy for a cigar smoker to file a complaint with the BBB against our only public legal smoking option in WA. You asked for a VOTE against reservation lounges to have tax exempt status. With all the political action going against smoking laws the last few years and many of us BOTLs paying money to the CRA to fight for our rights, that's so great that a local cigar smoker is actively asking for legislation to take action against one of our few freedoms. If you are asking for something to be done, then that's opening it all up to discussion and possible further action.

I honestly do feel bad for you that you feel slighted and that SJ's ignored you. I am not making excuses for them, simply relaying their side of the story and my personal opinion that this is a good lounge and good people. My other opinion is that the way their management is set up, it could be a simple miscommunication on their end making you feel like they ignored you. I don't know that's the case, just my guess.

I'm done with this thread, I expressed my opinion enough. Just disappointing...


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## AlohaStyle (Jun 30, 2009)

Don Haynes is the rep for a lot of things in western WA. You probably have met him at events. Mark spoke to Don and Don flat out said there is absolutely nothing he can do, period. Don is a broker rep, there is no real Dupont rep in WA. Don has no pull at all with Dupont.


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## StogieNinja (Jul 29, 2009)

I was the "well known Puffer" present when Ryan asked Mark and Dirk about the incident. So let me say that Ryan is reporting _their side_ accurately (I'm not saying their version is fact, just that Ryan gave an accurate portrayal of their response to the matter). This is not "second hand info", it's direct from the source, and corroborated, by me. Ryan posted Smokey Joes' side, Dave posted his own. So let's not attack anyone's credibility. Both sides were presented honestly.

I understand that Dave is over the matter, he's still sent people there, its no big deal to him anymore. However, I do feel Ryan had the right to speak up for Smokey Joes. The reason he waited until now was that Friday was the first opportunity he had to ask Mark and Dirk for their side of things, and he wanted to hear it _personally_. That's commendable. And a _lot_ of people have read Dave's side of the story. Ryan wanted to ensure that Smokey Joes got a fair public rebuttal before the matter was completely put to rest. Regardless of who you feel is right, that's only fair.

Honestly, I think there was simply a _lot_ of miscommunication and/or misunderstanding. Dave says all he wanted from Mark or Dirk was a call back and a St DuPont rep's contact info. Dirk, and by extension Mark, both thought Dave expected them to resolve the matter completely (IE refund or exchange at point of sale), and that's not how St. DuPont does their warranty.

St. DuPont, unlike Xikar, doesn't want retailers involved in warranty issues at all. Most lifetime warranties work the same way, you have to deal directly with the manufacturer, the retailer is only a sales outlet. So that takes Smokey Joes out of the equation, at least in terms of responsibility for fixing the lighter. Additionally, once Dave had sent the lighter into St. DuPont, that further removed them from the equation.

As for getting the rep's info, that again seems to me to fall on St. DuPont, not Smokey Joes. Now, I don't know for sure how things work in the tobacco business, but in my line of work, the product rep's contact info isn't Smokey Joes' right to give out to customers, and it feels to me like Mark got put between a rock and a hard place with that request, if he ever received it accurately to begin with. And the rep for the area, as Ryan stated, couldn't do anything anyway, he doesn't work for St. DuPont.

I'm not saying Mark and Dirk are blameless. They _should_ have called Dave back. I totally empathize with Dave's irritation over their lack of returning his calls, and he has _every_ right to be. And the organizational structure of Smokey Joes does appear to leave much to be desired. All I am saying is that the real issue here is with St. DuPont not standing behind their warranty and giving even worse customer service. They should have resolved this whole thing to begin with by simply fixing Dave's lighter. Mark, Dirk, and the ladies there at the lounge are all good people. We know all know Dave. It's like two friends asking you to pick a side in their divorce. You want people to understand both sides, and understand that despite it all, everyone involved is good people.

At any rate, the matter can be put to rest, as Dave has asked. Both sides have now been put out there first hand, there's no hearsay, and now people can draw their own conclusions about the matter.


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## smelvis (Sep 7, 2009)

As I said before I will never set foot inside Smokey Joes and My friends list is getting shorter. You all can scoop it anyway you want the facts don't count from you two, I did was I felt was right and would do the same today. In fact I think now that you have brought it up it's time to continue the complaints against them. Thanks Guy's


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## StogieNinja (Jul 29, 2009)

Aninjaforallseasons said:


> I'm not saying Mark and Dirk are blameless. They _should_ have called Dave back. I totally empathize with Dave's irritation over their lack of returning his calls, and he has _every_ right to be. And the organizational structure of Smokey Joes does appear to leave much to be desired....
> Mark, Dirk, and the ladies there at the lounge are all good people. We know all know Dave. ... You want people to understand both sides, and understand that despite it all, *everyone involved is good people*..





smelvis said:


> ... My friends list is getting shorter. . . the facts don't count from you two...


Dave, as you can see above, I wasn't trying to "pick a side", I was simply trying to point out that Mark, while sure he made a mistake here, is not a bad guy. Neither are you. All I was doing was trying to show that there were probably misunderstandings on both sides.

If my wanting to see both sides of things means that "the facts don't count" from me, that my word is no longer good with you, then that's how it has to be. I won't have my point of view held hostage in order to remain a "friend", if that whats friendship is to you. _True_ friendship values the parties involved for who they are, not what they can offer. _True_ friendship allows for differing points of view, with the understanding that both sides (here referring to you and I) are good BOTLs who simply may have a different way of looking at the same thing. I wasn't even taking Mark's side of things. I simply supported the idea that there may be another way to look at the situation, and that it might have been in large part due to miscommunication or misunderstanding, not outright antagonism from Mark.

I simply want there to be mutual respect and understanding, not anger. The cigar community is about friendship, camaraderie, a spirit of brotherhood, and all of that means it should be about mutual understanding, respect, and even grace.

If you're willing to say we can't be friends because I support those ideas, and that my word no longer matters because of that, then you never held my friendship or my word in much regard to begin with.

If I'm taking what you've said wrongly, then I apologize, and I would love to continue the discussion. However, if I'm correctly interpreting your post above, then I'm truly sorry to have lost your friendship. No hard feelings here either way.


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## smelvis (Sep 7, 2009)

Mine and Marks are the only views that count. anyone talking to someone else will never pass the story as it happened we have proved that time and time again. How many times have you seen a story change when retold it is a constant.

I also think Mark is a good guy and am more pissed that I am put in this position than I ever was about a few hundred bucks. Come on that's where my friends meet up you don't think I miss that? He not only did not call me back but twice he was there and would not take the call. So nice or not that put's him at fault and it could have been fixed simply by answering the phone. I have never received an apology just his cronies trying to stick up for them. So yes I do say shame on you and do not consider you a friend or anyone who takes their side when the facts are so simple.

A few got it and Thanks to them but I am sure they lost no business from this. All they have is a BBB complaint classified as unresolved and a couple additional recent ones almost finished for me having to get all pissed off when it wasn't needed all over again. This thread was last updated almost three months ago. So Later dudes!


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## Mante (Dec 25, 2009)

Ok. Everyone has had a say & my suggestion is that now each point has been made, this thread should dwell in the annuls of Puff, to be read but no longer posted in. Enough has been said to serve the purpose intended and any more back biting on a personal level should be taken to PM. Just my thoughts expressed aloud without condemnation of anyone. :closed_2::spy:


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## asmartbull (Aug 16, 2009)

smelvis said:


> Mine and Marks are the only views that count.


This sums it up.
I am closing this up for now. I will re-open if Dave wants to post the resolution...


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