# Is it just me or does Squadron Leader suck lately?



## otto (Dec 1, 2007)

In the last few months I've tried bulk and tinned SL and it just tastes like old cigarette tobacco to me. None of the nice Latakia aroma and is very blonde in color. The SL bulk I have from a couple years ago is different as night and day. Am I the only one to notice? I am done buying this garbage.


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## drastic_quench (Sep 12, 2008)

I never liked that airy old fluff. I can't imagine how bad it is if it got worse. Is the biplane on the sticker crashing in flames?


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## MontyTheMooch (May 27, 2012)

I just put 2 tins into a mason jar and was pretty surprised at how wet it was.


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## otto (Dec 1, 2007)

Yeah, wet = more weight = more profit.

The "new" stuff has absolutely nothing in common with the older.


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## MontyTheMooch (May 27, 2012)

I'll probably let mine sit in the jar for some time. I just got 5oz of Peter Stokkebye Proper English which, to my nose at least, smells pretty close to Squadron Leader and is in a much more smoke-able condition right off the truck.


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## MarkC (Jul 4, 2009)

otto said:


> None of the nice Latakia aroma and is very blonde in color. The SL bulk I have from a couple years ago is different as night and day. Am I the only one to notice?


Doesn't sound right to me; guess I'll cross that off my list. While I had some not too long ago, it was from '09, so I can't say I've bought any recently. In all honesty, I considered it sort of a "starter balkan" anyway. I liked it at first, but later found plenty I liked better.


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## KaChong (Jan 1, 2012)

I got my first tin a couple of months ago and it smells so redolent and bacony that I want to spread it on crackers and eat it. I just ordered another tin which I hope to see next week. I hope it doesn't fall short of my first tin.

It was pretty wet though. I have to let it air out for a couple hours before I can smoke it. I'm far from a pipe veteran though. It's only my third tobacco, but I like it quite a lot.


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## StogieNinja (Jul 29, 2009)

otto said:


> Yeah, wet = more weight = more profit.
> 
> The "new" stuff has absolutely nothing in common with the older.


Hmmm... I hadn't even gotten around to trying this one yet. I guess I'm scratching it off my list!


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## otto (Dec 1, 2007)

After being missing from the shelves for a while. I noticed the dive in quality coincided with the spike in prices. I mean, raise the price if you have to, but the stuff they can now isn't even smokeable. 
I still like the Dunhill's EMP, 965 etc., but they don't sell in bulk anymore. I'll try the Stockeby's Proper English again.


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## freestoke (Feb 13, 2011)

The best things SL had going for it before were the name and the cool Hawker Fury on the can. In the Latakia/Turkish world, there is a LOT of competition.


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## MarkC (Jul 4, 2009)

Of course, this brings to mind other fears...anyone try FVF lately to see if it's suffered a similar fate?


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## Contrabass Bry (May 3, 2010)

I can attest to FVF going down the quality "crapper". Just popped a tin I was sending to another new member to check it out (I purchased from Mr. Snuff a few months ago.) Totally different.

It used to have the texture and look of 1792 flake, but now there were 2 neatly cut stacks of very homogenous tobacco with none of the aroma of the former FVF... Total "meh" of a smoke as well.

we are lost.

Used to look like this:














Now it looks like this:








...and I look like this:


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## MarkC (Jul 4, 2009)

Sigh. Well, you just saved me some money and major disappointment.


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## Contrabass Bry (May 3, 2010)

Dissapointment? More like heartbreak! 

Sammy, what...have you done?!?


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## freestoke (Feb 13, 2011)

Looks like tobacco is going the way of food. Probably moving rapidly toward all virtual-hydroponic tobacco now, possibly even some genetic engineering on the horizon, sort of like the modern grocery store plastic pumpkin tomatoes. As the companies consolidate with mergers and the CEOs start cheapening the products to fatten their wallets, expect more of the same. Aging your own may cease to be as viable option as it once was, since you'll be starting with floor sweepings and bottom leaf to begin with.


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## lostdog13 (Jan 16, 2012)

MarkC said:


> Doesn't sound right to me; guess I'll cross that off my list. While I had some not too long ago, it was from '09, so I can't say I've bought any recently. In all honesty, I considered it sort of a "starter balkan" anyway. I liked it at first, but later found plenty I liked better.


Guess I'll have to stay away from ordering any then. The SL you sent me is really good, so it was on my list to order for jarring.


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## indigosmoke (Sep 1, 2009)

Well, after a couple of weeks away from Puff I return to this sad thread. I have to say I noticed the same thing with the SL I bought last year. I didn't notice quite the drop off in dark tobaccos that otto points out, but it was just different somehow. I just chalked it up to my changing tastes, but now I wonder. Kind of sad as SL was my first latakia blend and one I enjoyed regularly. It's been replaced in my pipes with other latakia blends for the most part, but still a sad loss of a great tobacco if this condition persists. Hopefully just a temporary situation and SG will straighten things out. Still has just about the best tin art around however.

However, the FVF situation could be really troubling for some. While it's never been a favorite of mine, I know it has legions of devoted followers. Those who hoarded earlier production may find themselves with a bonanza if SG doesn't reverse this situation ASAP.


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## glassjapan (Feb 15, 2006)

Contrabass Bry said:


> I can attest to FVF going down the quality "crapper". Just popped a tin I was sending to another new member to check it out (I purchased from Mr. Snuff a few months ago.) Totally different.
> 
> It used to have the texture and look of 1792 flake, but now there were 2 neatly cut stacks of very homogenous tobacco with none of the aroma of the former FVF... Total "meh" of a smoke as well.
> 
> ...


I'm not sure of the exact timeline, but I do know, your "new" FVF is at least two years old and maybe older. At some point in 2010 they changed the tins, and the words Samuel Gawith are in red now. I've got FVF cellared from '04 up to '12 and they're all a little different, but all in the same ballpark. Maybe just got a hold of a ho-hum tin?


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## karatekyle (Nov 2, 2010)

MarkC said:


> Doesn't sound right to me; guess I'll cross that off my list. While I had some not too long ago, it was from '09, so I can't say I've bought any recently. In all honesty, I considered it sort of a "starter balkan" anyway. I liked it at first, but later found plenty I liked better.


I have the same thoughts about Nightcap. It's good, I smoke it. But Nightcap is the the noisy frat party of Dunhill's portfolio. It's not bad; like I said, I smoke it. But there's plenty I like better when it comes to latakia.

As far as other blends, I think my FVF will be just fine after it gets it's beauty rest. I've heard people complaining about Stonehaven's recent change in taste too, something I haven't had the opportunity to notice.


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## MarkC (Jul 4, 2009)

freestoke said:


> Looks like tobacco is going the way of food. Probably moving rapidly toward all virtual-hydroponic tobacco now, possibly even some genetic engineering on the horizon, sort of like the modern grocery store plastic pumpkin tomatoes. As the companies consolidate with mergers and the CEOs start cheapening the products to fatten their wallets, expect more of the same. Aging your own may cease to be as viable option as it once was, since you'll be starting with floor sweepings and bottom leaf to begin with.


Well, let's don't overreact; blends changing is nothing new. In fact, it's impossible to avoid to a degree, as there's no way to get tobacco from a 1980 crop in 2012, to exaggerate a bit. Some tobaccos that a particular blend relies on may not even be available any more in any form. "Real" Rattray's hasn't been available since the sixties in the U.S. and the 70's in Europe (although switching to Robert McConnell as the blender doesn't seem like a big thing to worry about from our vantage point today!). "Real" Dunhill hasn't been available for decades; even their replacement, Murray's is priced skyhigh now, if you can find it. You ought to see the look on the face of younger (than me anyway) people when I mention that Schlitz beer wasn't bad way back when. (Although I think the look is past 'unbelieving' to 'call the men in the white coats'.) Blends come and go, old favorites are replaced by imposters. That's probably the best reason to build a cellar; your favorite isn't going to be around forever.

But it sure hurts when it moves from theoretical to one of your favorites. Particularly when you foolishly smoke up your limited supply on the assumption that you can rebuild later as I have!


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## MarkC (Jul 4, 2009)

lostdog13 said:


> Guess I'll have to stay away from ordering any then. The SL you sent me is really good, so it was on my list to order for jarring.


Yeah, I was going to order a few tins from JR since they had them at a decent (these days) price on them. Oh well; memories are good too. (And if you think it was really good now, wait ten years; you'll be telling noobs the story about this wonderful, mythical tobacco that you had back in your younger days... )


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## otto (Dec 1, 2007)

I bought 2 pounds of SL from Smoking Pipes a few months ago after it reappeared. It was absolutely terrible. It took some doing, but I managed to send it back for a refund. I got the tins from JR in hopes that it would be better than the bulk WRONG. It's the same garbage. Samuel Gawith is dead to me.
I used to buy pounds of the #6 blend from Campbell's in Lansing which was even better than SL or EMP. About a year and a half ago the quality of this excellent blend went went down the toilet also. The shop owner was oblivious to this decline. Needless to say I don't buy there anymore.


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## otto (Dec 1, 2007)

I can understand differences in a blend from year to year etc. There is no excuse for selling floor sweepings as premium tobacco.


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## freestoke (Feb 13, 2011)

MarkC said:


> Well, let's don't overreact; blends changing is nothing new. In fact, it's impossible to avoid to a degree, as there's no way to get tobacco from a 1980 crop in 2012, to exaggerate a bit.


I was actually going to bring that up on retrospect. Perhaps its more comforting to think of it like wine, where some years are better than others.

As for the Schlitz, I remember when they came out with the pop-top can, said top detaching from the lid. Broken glass lost its position as the number one hazard for playing beach volleyball. They had a great commercial back in the early '60s(?), too -- "Hey, honey, the refrigerator's full of beer!" A refrigerator filled top to bottom with nothing but Schlitz. Contrast that with the change in national character a couple decades later, when we are confronted with a Michelob commercial, depicting six guys on a hunting trip arriving at their hunting lodge for a weekend of male bonding. (Hidden message: Michelob is for rich people who have hunting lodges, hence, very good stuff.) Studly Leader opens the refrigerator and there is one lonely six pack of Michelob sitting there, which Studly Leader pulls out to cheers as he passes the cans around. Rave on, guys! Prosit! Cheers! Salud! A whole beer apiece on a wild and crazy macho hunting trip.


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## otto (Dec 1, 2007)

As I said, I understand subtle differences from year to year, but this like putting Budweiser in a Guiness can and saying "hey it says Guiness on the can".


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## freestoke (Feb 13, 2011)

Wow, Otto, that's some contrast! The 2010 looks like what I smoked a while back, but the stuff on the right looks like Borkum Riff. :lol: The shard in the middle of the pile doesn't even look like tobacco -- a piece of plastic detritus or something?


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## karatekyle (Nov 2, 2010)

Unbelievable. Thanks for the pic, Otto.


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## otto (Dec 1, 2007)

Maybe from a wood chipper?


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## MarkC (Jul 4, 2009)

Damn. That's just sad.


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## ROTHNH (Jun 21, 2009)

First of all, the 2010 SL in that photo is darker but that probably has at least as much to do with the fact that it is more aged than the younger 2012 version.

That said, I much prefer Samuel Gawith's Skiff Mixture > Squadron Leader. To my taste, Skiff and SL "swap" the amount of Oriental and Latakia making Skiff, to me, a much better choice.

While I must say it's been years since I smoked SL, I continue to keep Skiff in my rotation. I get it in bulk and Skiff remains as good as it's ever been.


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## MontyTheMooch (May 27, 2012)

otto said:


> As I said, I understand subtle differences from year to year, but this like putting Budweiser in a Guiness can and saying "hey it says Guiness on the can".


Interesting. I don't think the two tins that I put into a jar are that light. I'll have to get a picture up to compare.


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## Flugplatz (Nov 24, 2009)

Wow! Great comparison pics! I have been smoking for years now, and have always thought it tasted like old cigarettes, but I REALLY like Latakia blends. I started out with Frog Morton however. I think that one has more in it. 

Is there any justification that due to the recent issues in the middle east that turkish & syrian latakia may be getting harder to come by? I certainly hope not. I recall back in '04 that one manufacturers majority of latakia stock went up in smoke due to a warehouse fire.


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## MontyTheMooch (May 27, 2012)

Here's how the two tins I opened look.


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## MarkC (Jul 4, 2009)

ROTHNH said:


> First of all, the 2010 SL in that photo is darker but that probably has at least as much to do with the fact that it is more aged than the younger 2012 version.


I'm afraid not; SL NEVER looked like the photo on the right. Never.


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## MarkC (Jul 4, 2009)

MontyTheMooch said:


> Here's how the two tins I opened look.


That looks more like fresh SL. Notice how the dark strands stand out whereas in the 'questionable' photo, it's just a pile of light ribbon.


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## KaChong (Jan 1, 2012)

MarkC said:


> That looks more like fresh SL. Notice how the dark strands stand out whereas in the 'questionable' photo, it's just a pile of light ribbon.


I got a tin (my first) a couple months ago and it looks like that picture. Very dark ribbons amongst light ribbons.


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## MarkC (Jul 4, 2009)

I just had a paranoid thought. I've read comments (can't remember where) that SG was annoyed with all the hoarding/cellaring in the U.S. that was aggravating the shortages...maybe they got pissed off enough to just start sending us crap. (Joking of course. I think.)


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## szyzk (Nov 27, 2010)

otto said:


> As I said, I understand subtle differences from year to year, but this like putting Budweiser in a Guiness can and saying "hey it says Guiness on the can".


Has anyone contacted SL? That looks like a production error... Like, the Latakia scooper fell asleep at the assembly line!


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## ROTHNH (Jun 21, 2009)

Flugplatz said:


> Wow! Great comparison pics! I have been smoking for years now, and have always thought it tasted like old cigarettes, but I REALLY like Latakia blends. I started out with Frog Morton however. I think that one has more in it.
> 
> Is there any justification that due to the recent issues in the middle east that turkish & syrian latakia may be getting harder to come by? I certainly hope not. I recall back in '04 that one manufacturers majority of latakia stock went up in smoke due to a warehouse fire.


According to Greg Pease as well as a number of other respected tobacco blenders, the supply of Latakia from Cyprus is still available. Syrian Latakia, however, remains difficult. Turkish/Oriental tobaccos availability remains unaffected and as plentiful as ever.


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## otto (Dec 1, 2007)

MarkC said:


> I'm afraid not; SL NEVER looked like the photo on the right. Never.


^^ This ^^


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## RupturedDuck (Jan 11, 2012)

ROTHNH said:


> According to Greg Pease as well as a number of other respected tobacco blenders, the supply of Latakia from Cyprus is still available. Syrian Latakia, however, remains difficult. Turkish/Oriental tobaccos availability remains unaffected and as plentiful as ever.


In 2004 there was a warehouse fire that destroyed a crop of Syrian Latakia. Also, in 1998, GL Pease wrote an article that spoke of Syrian Latakia becoming more available...giving the impression that at sometime in the 1990s, Syrian Latakia became scarse, but that this shortage was at least on its way to becoming overcome. Does anyone have a link to to more current information with regards to the worldwide supply of Syrian Latakia?

I can't imagine that producing Latakia for us pipe enthusiasts is #1 on the mind of Syrians. Embargos being proposed, and enacted cannot be helping either. But I have yet to find any article that describes how the country's civil strife has effected the tobacco export. Are their areas outisde of where the news has been shooting footage that is made up of gentle rolling hills with vast tobacco plants gently waving in the breeze, awaiting their day to languish in the curing sheds?

Does anyone have a link that discusses any of this?

Thanks,

RD


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## indigosmoke (Sep 1, 2009)

I don't know if Syrian latakia pipe tobacco comes from the Latakia region, but if so, I don't think we'll be seeing much exporting of tobacco any time soon.

Syrian soldiers killed, captured during heavy Latakia clashes | Al Bawaba

http://www.dailystar.com.lb/News/Mi...ia-fear-impending-massacre.ashx#axzz1zmAFcx6S


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## RupturedDuck (Jan 11, 2012)

I believe that indeed, Syrian Latakia does come from the Latakia region of Syria. This is why I'm surprised that I cannot find an article discussing the state of their tobacco production. As of April 1, 2011, an article that Russ Ouelette published describes the inconstistancy and spotty availability of Syrian Latakia as the result of the Syrian government's crackdown on the harvesting of Syrian Oak, which explains why it has been hard to procure post the 2004 warehouse fire.

But I'm with you, I can't imagine that there is anyone in Syria who is planning next year's tobacco crop right now.

RD


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## MiamiMikePA (May 16, 2012)

I recently purchased some SL and I do admit that I have been enjoying it very much. Although I haven't smoked it prior to this.


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## blackadam (Jun 28, 2011)

Maybe try contacting them?

I once contacted them by email and received a reply from someone the same day. I don't know about the state of squadron leader, but they seem like a nice bunch of folks.


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## ProbateGeek (Oct 13, 2010)

As someone who just found this thread, after ordering two tins of the sought-after FVF, I am wondering if I'm going to regret doing so. 
Hmmmmmmm.


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## MontyTheMooch (May 27, 2012)

Nah...you'll be fine. Pop the tins into a mason jar and let them rest a bit and you'll be ok.


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## BrewShooter (Mar 17, 2011)

This is interesting, I bought some SL about a year ago, after hearing how great it was, and came away somewhat indifferent to it. I'm now wondering what the production date was on it.


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## jfserama (Mar 26, 2009)

That's too bad to hear about SG. But, on the bright side, this thread saved me a lot of money!


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## ProbateGeek (Oct 13, 2010)

< _reposted from other thread_ >

Just got two tins of FVF in:



















The contents look, and smell, delicious. I've got one (yes, only one) older flake left in a jar at home. I'll see how these compare tonight.


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## gahdzila (Apr 29, 2010)

Just glancing at it, Terry, it looks _almost_ exactly like the tin I just finished. Only difference being mine was almost 4 years old, and darker colored with crystal streaks, both resulting from aging.


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## johnstaf (Aug 17, 2012)

Hi everyone,
I came upon this thread a few weeks ago after I bought a tin of Squadron Leader that looked wrong, and tasted like cheap cigarettes. Today I bought a new tin from the same shop (Peterson's, Dublin) and it seems to have been restored to its former glory. The missing dark leaf is back, and there is more variety in the shades of the other leaf. More importantly, it tastes like it should. I had been on the verge of abandoning SL in favour of Dunhill's London Mixture, but now something else will have to go...


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## 36Bones (Aug 18, 2011)

johnstaf said:


> Hi everyone,
> I came upon this thread a few weeks ago after I bought a tin of Squadron Leader that looked wrong, and tasted like cheap cigarettes. Today I bought a new tin from the same shop (Peterson's, Dublin) and it seems to have been restored to its former glory. The missing dark leaf is back, and there is more variety in the shades of the other leaf. More importantly, it tastes like it should. I had been on the verge of abandoning SL in favour of Dunhill's London Mixture, but now something else will have to go...


This is very good to know. I normally buy my SL in bulk and hadn't really noticed the difference, since I don't buy the tins.

:welcome: to Puff, John. Post up in the New Puffer Fish thread, so we can get to know you better.


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## indigosmoke (Sep 1, 2009)

johnstaf said:


> Hi everyone,
> I came upon this thread a few weeks ago after I bought a tin of Squadron Leader that looked wrong, and tasted like cheap cigarettes. Today I bought a new tin from the same shop (Peterson's, Dublin) and it seems to have been restored to its former glory. The missing dark leaf is back, and there is more variety in the shades of the other leaf. More importantly, it tastes like it should. I had been on the verge of abandoning SL in favour of Dunhill's London Mixture, but now something else will have to go...


This is really good to hear. SL has always been one of my favorites (it was the second tinned blend I ever smoked) but the last batch I received really did seem quite different. I'm glad to know it was just a bad batch. Probably something along the same lines as happened with (I think it was) St. James Flake a while back. Thanks for the information.


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## Blue_2 (Jan 25, 2011)

indigosmoke said:


> I'm glad to know it was just a bad batch. Probably something along the same lines as happened with (I think it was) St. James Flake a while back.


I still remember that! I tried one flake before sending it back. It was simply a horrible blend.

Fortunately 4Noggins took good care of me and swapped it out. It must have been a fairly small batch mistake as he had some of the correct stuff on hand.


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## otto (Dec 1, 2007)

Good to hear Johnstaf! I think I'll wait about a year to buy any until I'm sure all the "cigarette" stuff is gone.


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## GioPipes (Jul 27, 2012)

I have never enjoyed SL, maybe I should give it another shot, could have been a bad batch..


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