# Is it a real Cuban?



## Da Klugs

Thought this might be helpful to folks getting started and potentially avoid embarrassment for newer members who might have gotten a cigar here or there they "hope" is real.
*
These "Hope Cigars" are most likely not real if:*

You bought it on a street anywhere in the world.
If came to you from a "friend" who knows a guy/girl.
A Cuban connection is involved
Cruise ships and the places they stop (LCDH Stores excluded).
Mexico (LCDH stores excluded)
Domestic tobacco shop back room.
It was a "deal" (Fer Christ sake click a banner ad somewhere and compare prices.. too good to be true is just that)

Posting questions and or pictures about cigars acquired through any of the methods above is probably going to end up badly. Take your hope cigars and smoke them. Then read and learn how to get some from a reputable source.

*Real Cuban cigars:*

Have a very controlled distribution and pricing process. (!/2 price don't ever happen)
They taste better.
Older ones taste alot better.
They are more expensive than the typically promoted NC cigars.
They are less expensive than their comparable NC counterparts.
They are "puros" rolled only from Cuban leaf.
Generally they are produced/smoked in smaller RG than NC.
When fresh their ash is darker grey&#8230; lighter as they age. (generally)
They come in dress boxes and cabinets with slide lid boxes. (generally)
They all have triple caps. Though I've seen a few with 4.
Smoking them slower makes them taste better.
Most people store them at 65% vs 70% for NC.
I store them to smoke at 60%.
Using humidification beads is a good way to maintain their humidity.
Most used to taste sort of yucky fresh as they are not rolled from "aged tobacco".
In the past few years they seem to be better fresh due to factory upgrades or other things.
Only serendipity and clumsiness causes them to roll on virgins thighs.
Since 2000 they have month, year and 3 digit factory codes stamped on the box.
From 1985-2000 they had factory codes and "coded" year month codes.
May-Dec of 1999 NETAGIDOCU (1=n, etc.) to determine the year month they were produced.
1985 - 1999 NIVELACUSO (1=n, etc) to determine year month they were produced.
A burned tobacco leaf with Cubatobacco on the bottom of the box = 1985-1995
HECHO EN CUBA burned on the bottom of the box means the cigars were produced in 1961 forward
1994 and forward cubatobacco replaced by Habanos S A on the bottom of the box.
Pre 85 cigars are frequently misrepresented (intentional or not) as to their age by those selling them .
They all come with a seal that should break the circular crest when opened.
There is printing on the seal visible under UV light.
The codes in red on the seal mean something relating to the box code. Two alphas 6 numbers started in 2000 with AA 000001. 
First 2 digits should be different under the UV.
Lonsdales are the most frequently tight drawing cigars.
Blend changes occurred in many brands in 1995 to milder ones.
The tobacco changes somewhat every year as the seed is a hybrid.
Small RG Cubans can be shockingly strong and flavorful.
The traditional wrapper was changed to a more desease resistant one in 2000
Cohiba Linea Classica Line (Not Siglo) are 3x fermented (other brands are 2x)
Generally only a few thin RG cigars from the 80's can still be found at retail.
Generally only medium RG cigars from the mid 90's can be found at retail.
There is a reason it is hard to find larger RG cigars with age on them.
1999-2001 cigar boom years can have more production and leaf quality issues.
Many feel that 2003 and forward cigar quality has been superior...
This may be the result of better QC and aged leaf being used.
Recent CA article stated H Upmann factory using 99-00 bales now for 06-07 cigars.
Cohiba Behikes are friggin ridiculously priced.
Habanos SA holograms are only put on boxes made for domestic (cuba) consumption.
Holograms generally = fakes and usually come with a story about a friend or brother.
Did I mention they they taste better?


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## boonedoggle

my brother had gotten a Cohiba not long ago that looked like the real deal. It wasn't bad, and I told him I thought it was real. I do not think it was, as we fired it up, but I did not want to hurt his feelings as he is not a cigar smoker. I did not want to give the impression that I'm better than him by pointing out he had a fake. We had a nice visit over a fake cuban cigar. I'll take that anyday. Is this a thread jack?


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## SaltyMcGee

Nice post....that sums it up pretty well methinks! :tu


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## icehog3




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## Twill413

You have sinned in pointing out fake "absolutes" Dave. Glass tops = fakearoo 

Nice post, and way to show them that it isn't all "fluff" :tu.


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## montecristo#2

> Holograms generally = fakes and usually come with a story about a friend or brother.


Is this really still true? I just read a thread the other day about the LCDHs in Mexico having a special hologram.

I have also seen pictures of boxes from Canadian members and they have holograms as well.

Maybe you should ammend the list: If you see a box in Miami with a hologram = fakes  :r :r


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## Da Klugs

montecristo#2 said:


> Is this really still true? I just read a thread the other day about the LCDHs in Mexico having a special hologram.
> 
> I have also seen pictures of boxes from Canadian members and they have holograms as well.
> 
> Maybe you should ammend the list: If you see a box in Miami with a hologram = fakes  :r :r


UB right. MX has the foil holograms though not the clear ones.


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## The Professor

Very nicely done, Dave. Given the number of threads floating around lately, perhaps this could get stickied for a little while. It might cut down on the number of new threads.


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## montecristo#2

Da Klugs said:


> UB right. MX has the foil holograms though not the clear ones.


Do I need a decorder ring to understand that?  :r

Does this sounds right?



> You are right. Miami has the foil holograms though not the clear ones.


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## Da Klugs

montecristo#2 said:


> Do I need a decorder ring to understand that?  :r
> 
> Does this sounds right?


Try this...

Holograms on cigar Boxes in LCDH stores in Mexico does not mean they are fake.

Cigars and cigar boxes purchased anywhere else in Mexico? ... the holograms if present, might smoke better than the cigars.


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## icehog3

Da Klugs said:


> Try this...
> 
> Holograms on cigar Boxes in LCDH stores in Mexico does not mean they are fake.
> 
> Cigars and cigar boxes purchased anywhere else in Mexico ... the holograms if present, might smoke better than the cigars.


MMMMMM....Smokable holograms...... :dr


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## montecristo#2

Oh, MX = Mexico - I was a little  :r

That makes a little more sense. :r


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## Sandman

The best post I have read on CS in a long long time. 

Thank you!


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## gefell

Nice :tu


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## ridein04

Thanks!


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## RPB67

And to think, I thought Carlos was the only real Cuban out here........:r


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## Boston_Dude05

Very informative thread. Thanks for compiling. :tu


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## Lanthor

Thanks for the info and taking the time write it down.


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## BigJon

Incredible post! :tu


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## floydpink

Good stuff and probably saved a few people from wasting money.

One question though; the part about the cruise ships. We cruise at least once a year and sometimes stop by Nassau. I always stop by John Bull on I forget the name of the main road. This is a very high end store and I was always under the impression I was buying the real thing and hope so considering the prices I normally pay. I am positive the Rolexes they sell are real as well as the emeralds from Colombia, so can't see the fake ISOM's part. You definitely would know better than me though.

Was this a generalization?


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## muziq

Seems like sticky material to me. A great companion read to Dustin's must-try Habanos list...nice one Klugs!


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## Da Klugs

floydpink said:


> Good stuff and probably saved a few people from wasting money.
> 
> One question though; the part about the cruise ships. We cruise at least once a year and sometimes stop by Nassau. I always stop by John Bull on I forget the name of the main road. This is a very high end store and I was always under the impression I was buying the real thing and hope so considering the prices I normally pay. I am positive the Rolexes they sell are real as well as the emeralds from Colombia, so can't see the fake ISOM's part. You definitely would know better than me though.
> 
> *Was this a generalization?*


Yup. Exceptions to every generalizaton. Personal observation and experience ... and direct contact are another "common sense" guide. The point is that LCDH's and high volume vendors have reputations (HVV) and franchises (LCDH) to protect. Not worth the risk for them to intentionally sell fakes. Conversely, "Some guy" is a bunch of dried cowpies rolled into a cylinder of a different color.


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## raisin

Well, that just about covers everything, might as well eliminate the search feature now! lol


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## Boston_Dude05

Sticky worthy material. Perfect title for search function too in the future.


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## Simplified

I get gifted a lot of smokes from this guy in the office next to me, he says each are real but who the hell would gift so many ISOM's.


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## icehog3

floydpink said:


> Good stuff and probably saved a few people from wasting money.
> 
> One question though; the part about the cruise ships. We cruise at least once a year and sometimes stop by Nassau. I always stop by John Bull on I forget the name of the main road. This is a very high end store and I was always under the impression I was buying the real thing and hope so considering the prices I normally pay. I am positive the Rolexes they sell are real as well as the emeralds from Colombia, so can't see the fake ISOM's part. You definitely would know better than me though.
> 
> Was this a generalization?


That store did have the real deal, it was on Market Street in the John Bull store and called Havana Humidor. From what I underdstand it is closed now, and the only legit CCs in Nassau are at the Atlantis Resort.


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## stig

OK, I'm having a reaaaaaly slow day. Can you define a few of the abbreviations for me?

MVV = 
LCDH = (I know I'm gonna feel stupid whe you answer this one Klugsy)
NIVELACUSO =
NETAGIDOCU =


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## stig

Da Klugs said:


> Posting questions and or pictures about cigars acquired through any of the methods above is probably going to end up badly. Take your hope cigars and smoke them. Then read and learn how to get some from a reputable source.
> 
> *Real Cuban cigars:*
> 
> Older ones taste alot better. *(That's what Pnoon keeps tellin' the noobs)*
> 
> Small RG Cubans can be shockingly strong and flavorful. *(That sounds like a bad pickup line)*
> 
> Generally only a few thin RG cigars from the 80's can still be found at retail.
> Generally only medium RG cigars from the mid 90's can be found at retail.
> There is a reason it is hard to find larger RG cigars with age on them.
> 
> *These would all be much easier to find if you just opened up that warehouse storage unit you call a humidor*
> 
> Cohiba Behikes are friggin ridiculously priced. *I got one of these from a friends brother who got it from a street vendor in Mexico with the limited edition crooked label that is wrapped around the celo. YUM!*
> 
> Did I mention they they taste better?


Great post Dave, I agree that you should make this a sticky as it will prove very helpful to noobs and veteran members here alike.:tu You are the ISOM Guru and I shall bow before your knowledge.


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## floydpink

icehog3 said:


> That store did have the real deal, it was on Market Street in the John Bull store and called Havana Humidor. From what I underdstand it is closed now, and the only legit CCs in Nassau are at the Atlantis Resort.


If it's closed, it must be recent because 3 months ago, we stoped on Royal carribbean and it was open. Market Street was the name I was searching for.

I'm far from an expert, but there's a small store right off the area where the straw market is that has convincingly close copies to what they're selling at John Bull if they're in fact fake. My memory is toast, but I bought a cigar t-shirt from them that disintegrated after the first wash, so now I'm beginning to be glad I went to John Bull.

Anyways, there's lots more than CC's at Atlantis that I like so that's where I will head next cruise if I go back to the Eastern Carribbean, which is less than likely.


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## Ivory Tower

Way to step up, Dave. You are a gentleman and a scholar.

Let me add that cigars in dress boxes (i.e. not slide lids) are box-pressed to some degree. 

This was the answer I got to a question here, from a clueless me some time back. :r It may help the next somewhat clueless gorilla.


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## mdorroh

Great thread, thanks for posting it up!


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## MeNimbus

icehog3 said:


> MMMMMM....Smokable holograms...... :dr


:tpd: How do you smoke a hologram? I would like to try u

Thanks for the info Dave. ^_^


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## icehog3

floydpink said:


> If it's closed, it must be recent because 3 months ago, we stoped on Royal carribbean and it was open. Market Street was the name I was searching for.
> 
> I'm far from an expert, but there's a small store right off the area where the straw market is that has convincingly close copies to what they're selling at John Bull if they're in fact fake. My memory is toast, but I bought a cigar t-shirt from them that disintegrated after the first wash, so now I'm beginning to be glad I went to John Bull.
> 
> Anyways, there's lots more than CC's at Atlantis that I like so that's where I will head next cruise if I go back to the Eastern Carribbean, which is less than likely.


I just heard about the closing in the last month or so, but I haven't been to Nassau for a couple years so I can't confirm it for sure.

The prices at John Bull and Atlantis were pretty high, unless you find an aged box, better off to bring your own cigars to smoke.

I saw a few stores with cigars that looked good, but I would still bet a weeks pay they were fakes.


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## TheDirector

Another great thread Dave. What can I say...you da man :tu


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## Xmodius

Da Klugs said:


> Thought this might be helpful to folks getting started and potentially avoid embarrassment for newer members who might have gotten a cigar here or there they "hope" is real.
> *
> These "Hope Cigars" are most likely not real if:*
> 
> You bought it on a street anywhere in the world.
> If came to you from a "friend" who knows a guy/girl.
> A Cuban connection is involved
> Cruise ships and the places they stop (LCDH Stores excluded).
> Mexico (LCDH stores excluded)
> Domestic tobacco shop back room.
> It was a "deal" (Fer Christ sake click a banner ad somewhere and compare prices.. too good to be true is just that)
> 
> Posting questions and or pictures about cigars acquired through any of the methods above is probably going to end up badly. Take your hope cigars and smoke them. Then read and learn how to get some from a reputable source.
> 
> *Real Cuban cigars:*
> 
> Have a very controlled distribution and pricing process. (!/2 price don't ever happen)
> They taste better.
> Older ones taste alot better.
> They are more expensive than the typically promoted NC cigars.
> They are less expensive than their comparable NC counterparts.
> They are "puros" rolled only from Cuban leaf.
> Generally they are produced/smoked in smaller RG than NC.
> When fresh their ash is darker grey&#8230; lighter as they age. (generally)
> They come in dress boxes and cabinets with slide lid boxes. (generally)
> They all have triple caps. Though I've seen a few with 4.
> Smoking them slower makes them taste better.
> Most people store them at 65% vs 70% for NC.
> I store them to smoke at 60%.
> Using humidification beads is a good way to maintain their humidity.
> Most used to taste sort of yucky fresh as they are not rolled from "aged tobacco".
> In the past few years they seem to be better fresh due to factory upgrades or other things.
> Only serendipity and clumsiness causes them to roll on virgins thighs.
> Since 2000 they have month, year and 3 digit factory codes stamped on the box.
> From 1985-2000 they had factory codes and "coded" year month codes.
> May-Dec of 1999 NETAGIDOCU (1=n, etc.) to determine the year month they were produced.
> 1985 - 1999 NIVELACUSO (1=n, etc) to determine year month they were produced.
> A burned tobacco leaf with Cubatobacco on the bottom of the box = 1985-1995
> HECHO EN CUBA burned on the bottom of the box means the cigars were produced in 1961 forward
> 1994 and forward cubatobacco replaced by Habanos S A on the bottom of the box.
> Pre 85 cigars are frequently misrepresented (intentional or not) as to their age by those selling them .
> They all come with a seal that should break the circular crest when opened.
> There is printing on the seal visible under UV light.
> The codes in red on the seal mean something relating to the box code. Two alphas 6 numbers started in 2000 with AA 000001.
> First 2 digits should be different under the UV.
> Lonsdales are the most frequently tight drawing cigars.
> Blend changes occurred in many brands in 1995 to milder ones.
> The tobacco changes somewhat every year as the seed is a hybrid.
> Small RG Cubans can be shockingly strong and flavorful.
> The traditional wrapper was changed to a more desease resistant one in 2000
> Cohibas purportedly are the only triple fermented brand (others are double)
> Generally only a few thin RG cigars from the 80's can still be found at retail.
> Generally only medium RG cigars from the mid 90's can be found at retail.
> There is a reason it is hard to find larger RG cigars with age on them.
> 1999-2001 cigar boom years can have more production and leaf quality issues.
> Many feel that 2003 and forward cigar quality has been superior...
> This may be the result of better QC and aged leaf being used.
> Recent CA article stated H Upmann factory using 99-00 bales now for 06-07 cigars.
> Cohiba Behikes are friggin ridiculously priced.
> Habanos SA holograms are only put on boxes made for domestic (cuba) consumption.
> Holograms generally = fakes and usually come with a story about a friend or brother.
> Did I mention they they taste better?


Damn, Dave!

I am seriously taking notes.

They look like a lot of my mental notes already, but I am saving this.

Thanks!

John


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## M1903A1

icehog3 said:


> MMMMMM....Smokable holograms...... :dr


Will they give you visions?


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## M1903A1

stig said:


> OK, I'm having a reaaaaaly slow day. Can you define a few of the abbreviations for me?
> 
> MVV = *I'm guessing, Major Volume Vendor*
> LCDH = (I know I'm gonna feel stupid whe you answer this one Klugsy)
> *La Casa De Habanos. The Cuban state-owned stores. The one place where you can't go wrong!*
> NIVELACUSO = *Obsolete letter code for box codes.*
> NETAGIDOCU =*I'm guessing, the current letter code for box codes.*


Answers in bold above.

Hope it helps some....


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## BigVito

great info:ss:tu


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## Bruce

Addendum:

You may find box codes on some late 1984 boxes.
With Cohibas, only the Linea Classica line is triple fermented.The Siglo line is not.


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## mdtaggart

These are:


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## Xmodius

Da Klugs said:


> There is a reason it is hard to find larger RG cigars with age on them.


Dave, is this just because the larger RG cigars get bought up first, leaving the smaller RG ones with the vendors for a longer time? Or, am I missing something?

John


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## Bruce

you are correct. Larger RG cigars are purchased over smaller RG cigars....especially during the Boom Days.

During the Boom, it was almost impossible to buy a box of Piramides, Robustos, Churchills, or DC's......these were the first cigars to sell out.

Can you imagine not being able to buy a box of Bolivar RC's? And when you did find them they were over $300 bucks?
That's how it was for me during the mid 90's....the infamous "Cigar Boom"!


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## Xmodius

Bruce said:


> you are correct. Larger RG cigars are purchased over smaller RG cigars....especially during the Boom Days.
> 
> During the Boom, it was almost impossible to buy a box of Piramides, Robustos, Churchills, or DC's......these were the first cigars to sell out.
> 
> Can you imagine not being able to buy a box of Bolivar RC's? And when you did find them they were over $300 bucks?
> That's how it was for me during the mid 90's....the infamous "Cigar Boom"!


Thanks, Bruce.

That was before my time, and the explanation makes perfect sense. I wonder if the current buying habits are more evenly spread among the various girths or if there is just less demand in general than during the boom. I know Habanos has also changed the lineup quite a bit in the past few years, with elimination of many cigars and a tendency toward ones of larger RG.

John


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## Bruce

I think the large cigar thing is still very prevelant, and is more a preference or "state of mind".
There are a lot of smokers out there who simply will not smoke a smaller ring gauge cigar. Case in point; I was in Germany this past winter and I offered the managers of the La Casa del Habanos in Colonge Davidoff Chateau Margauxs. They took them hesitantly stating that "this is not my size". However, after smoking them, they were surprised about how much flavor came from a small cigar.

You cannot believe how many times cigar smokers have turned down a vintage or rare cigar because it was "not their size".
I believe that some of this derives from the old myth that smaller cigars are effeminate. This myth still lives on to this day. 
I also see this amongst new cigar smokers who believe that you cannot get flavor and complexity from small RG cigars. There WERE a lot of FOG's right here on this board that I personally had to dispell that myth. They were amazed at the flavors that came out of a 28 to 33 RG cigar....cigars like Dunhill Atados, La Escepcion Longos, or a Dunhill Don Candido 508.


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## BigVito

Bruce said:


> I think the large cigar thing is still very prevelant, and is more a preference or "state of mind".
> There are a lot of smokers out there who simply will not smoke a smaller ring gauge cigar. Case in point; I was in Germany this past winter and I offered the managers of the La Casa del Habanos in Colonge Davidoff Chateau Margauxs. They took them hesitantly stating that "this is not my size". However, after smoking them, they were surprised about how much flavor came from a small cigar.
> 
> You cannot believe how many times cigar smokers have turned down a vintage or rare cigar because it was "not their size".
> I believe that some of this derives from the old myth that smaller cigars are effeminate. This myth still lives on to this day.
> I also see this amongst new cigar smokers who believe that you cannot get flavor and complexity from small RG cigars. There WERE a lot of FOG's right here on this board that I personally had to dispell that myth. They were amazed at the flavors that came out of a 28 to 33 RG cigar....cigars like Dunhill Atados, La Escepcion Longos, or a Dunhill Don Candido 508.


great post, I used to be in that state of mind, but have been converted. :ss


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## Stonato~

Bruce said:


> you are correct. Larger RG cigars are purchased over smaller RG cigars....especially during the Boom Days.
> 
> During the Boom, it was almost impossible to buy a box of Piramides, Robustos, Churchills, or DC's......these were the first cigars to sell out.
> 
> Can you imagine not being able to buy a box of Bolivar RC's? And when you did find them they were over $300 bucks?
> That's how it was for me during the mid 90's....the infamous "Cigar Boom"!


:tpd:

So true...many forget this. One of my trips to Cuba was in the mid 90's and you couldn't find a large cigar if you had a million bucks.


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## Puffy69

Bruce said:


> I think the large cigar thing is still very prevelant, and is more a preference or "state of mind".
> There are a lot of smokers out there who simply will not smoke a smaller ring gauge cigar. Case in point; I was in Germany this past winter and I offered the managers of the La Casa del Habanos in Colonge Davidoff Chateau Margauxs. They took them hesitantly stating that "this is not my size". However, after smoking them, they were surprised about how much flavor came from a small cigar.
> 
> You cannot believe how many times cigar smokers have turned down a vintage or rare cigar because it was "not their size".
> I believe that some of this derives from the old myth that smaller cigars are effeminate. This myth still lives on to this day.
> I also see this amongst new cigar smokers who believe that you cannot get flavor and complexity from small RG cigars. There WERE a lot of FOG's right here on this board that I personally had to dispell that myth. They were amazed at the flavors that came out of a 28 to 33 RG cigar....cigars like Dunhill Atados, *La Escepcion Longos*, or a Dunhill Don Candido 508.


:r..you aint lying..that cigar rocks..I also think people are afraid of the draw..Sometimes its the case but everytime I smoke a longo it draws just as good as any cigar and has lots of big flavors. I prefer smaller RG cigars a lot of times..they pack so much flavor. I wonder how I became that way


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## chibnkr

Bruce said:


> I think the large cigar thing is still very prevelant, and is more a preference or "state of mind".
> There are a lot of smokers out there who simply will not smoke a smaller ring gauge cigar. Case in point; I was in Germany this past winter and I offered the managers of the La Casa del Habanos in Colonge Davidoff Chateau Margauxs. They took them hesitantly stating that "this is not my size". However, after smoking them, they were surprised about how much flavor came from a small cigar.
> 
> You cannot believe how many times cigar smokers have turned down a vintage or rare cigar because it was "not their size".
> I believe that some of this derives from the old myth that smaller cigars are effeminate. This myth still lives on to this day.
> I also see this amongst new cigar smokers who believe that you cannot get flavor and complexity from small RG cigars. There WERE a lot of FOG's right here on this board that I personally had to dispell that myth. They were amazed at the flavors that came out of a 28 to 33 RG cigar....cigars like Dunhill Atados, La Escepcion Longos, or a Dunhill Don Candido 508.


I've seen this too, and even from well-seasoned cigar smokers. This pseudo-belief that thin RG cigars don't age well persists. For example, IMHO the Dunhill Atado has a much more intense flavor than even the Cabinettas! FWIW, I don't mind very much as it enables me to purchase many of those vintage thin RG cigars that others scorn.


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## raisin

Bruce said:


> I believe that some of this derives from the old myth that smaller cigars are effeminate. This myth still lives on to this day.


And this is why you've never seen a picture of "Arnold" on the cover of CA with a Ninfa planted in his mouth...


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## icehog3

raisin said:


> And this is why you've never seen a picture of "Arnold" on the cover of CA with a Ninfa planted in his mouth...


He doesn't know what he is missing!! :r


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## Xmodius

Well, at least the aversion to larger RG cigars has left an opportunity (thinner cigars) for those looking for older cigars. I guess if you want old fat ones you have to make your own or get them from someone who did.:ss


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## Teninx

I wish that I could get over my bias against Londsdales, Panatelas and Lanceros. The wrapper notes are so much more prevalent in these vitoals...but I'm always worried about a tighter drawand for me, nothing ruins a nice smoke more than not getting enough smoke:ss


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## Boston_Dude05

Teninx said:


> I wish that I could get over my bias against Londsdales, Panatelas and Lanceros. The wrapper notes are so much more prevalent in these vitoals...but I'm always worried about a tighter drawand for me, nothing ruins a nice smoke more than not getting enough smoke:ss


Actually if the cigar is well constructed small RG is hardly ever an issue for producing smoke. The small vitolas tend to pack a lot more flavor and also are less time consuming if you don't have 1-2 hours for a smoke. For me though, it's more the flavor. If you like small RG and want to enjoy a longer time duration smoke, there are the lanceros etc.


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## stig

M1903A1 said:


> Answers in bold above.
> 
> Hope it helps some....


Thanks.


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## stig

I found this site here which I think might also be helpful to some in determining wheter or not their cigars are "Real" or "Fake"

http://www.cigarnexus.com/counsel/counterfeit/

Lot's of good information here.


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## MoTheMan

Bruce said:


> I think the large cigar thing is still very prevelant, and is more a preference or "state of mind".
> There are a lot of smokers out there who simply will not smoke a smaller ring gauge cigar. Case in point; I was in Germany this past winter and I offered the managers of the La Casa del Habanos in Colonge Davidoff Chateau Margauxs. They took them hesitantly stating that "this is not my size". However, after smoking them, they were surprised about how much flavor came from a small cigar.
> 
> You cannot believe how many times cigar smokers have turned down a vintage or rare cigar because it was "not their size".
> I believe that some of this derives from the old myth that smaller cigars are effeminate. This myth still lives on to this day.
> I also see this amongst new cigar smokers who believe that you cannot get flavor and complexity from small RG cigars. There WERE a lot of FOG's right here on this board that I personally had to dispell that myth. They were amazed at the flavors that came out of a 28 to 33 RG cigar....cigars like Dunhill Atados, La Escepcion Longos, or a Dunhill Don Candido 508.


All this still holds true for me when it comes to mostly NC's. But when it comes to habanos, nothing like the kaleidoscope of flavors from smoking 2 or 3 small rg's in a row. Mmm, Mmm!:dr

BTW, well atriculated insight Bruce. Thanks!


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## Blueface

Bruce said:


> I believe that some of this derives from the old myth that smaller cigars are effeminate. This myth still lives on to this day.


I always knew there was a "feminine" side to me.

I went from large vitolas to small ones in the last year or so and love them.
Now you bastages are getting me to swing over to small rings.
Bad people!!!
La Gloria 3's here we come.


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## okierock

Da Klugs said:


> Thought this might be helpful to folks getting started and potentially avoid embarrassment for newer members who might have gotten a cigar here or there they "hope" is real.
> *
> These "Hope Cigars" are most likely not real if:*
> 
> You bought it on a street anywhere in the world.
> If came to you from a "friend" who knows a guy/girl.
> A Cuban connection is involved
> Cruise ships and the places they stop (LCDH Stores excluded).
> Mexico (LCDH stores excluded)
> Domestic tobacco shop back room.
> It was a "deal" (Fer Christ sake click a banner ad somewhere and compare prices.. too good to be true is just that)
> 
> Posting questions and or pictures about cigars acquired through any of the methods above is probably going to end up badly. Take your hope cigars and smoke them. Then read and learn how to get some from a reputable source.
> 
> *Real Cuban cigars:*
> 
> Have a very controlled distribution and pricing process. (!/2 price don't ever happen)
> They taste better.
> Older ones taste alot better.
> They are more expensive than the typically promoted NC cigars.
> They are less expensive than their comparable NC counterparts.
> They are "puros" rolled only from Cuban leaf.
> Generally they are produced/smoked in smaller RG than NC.
> When fresh their ash is darker grey&#8230; lighter as they age. (generally)
> They come in dress boxes and cabinets with slide lid boxes. (generally)
> They all have triple caps. Though I've seen a few with 4.
> Smoking them slower makes them taste better.
> Most people store them at 65% vs 70% for NC.
> I store them to smoke at 60%.
> Using humidification beads is a good way to maintain their humidity.
> Most used to taste sort of yucky fresh as they are not rolled from "aged tobacco".
> In the past few years they seem to be better fresh due to factory upgrades or other things.
> Only serendipity and clumsiness causes them to roll on virgins thighs.
> Since 2000 they have month, year and 3 digit factory codes stamped on the box.
> From 1985-2000 they had factory codes and "coded" year month codes.
> May-Dec of 1999 NETAGIDOCU (1=n, etc.) to determine the year month they were produced.
> 1985 - 1999 NIVELACUSO (1=n, etc) to determine year month they were produced.
> A burned tobacco leaf with Cubatobacco on the bottom of the box = 1985-1995
> HECHO EN CUBA burned on the bottom of the box means the cigars were produced in 1961 forward
> 1994 and forward cubatobacco replaced by Habanos S A on the bottom of the box.
> Pre 85 cigars are frequently misrepresented (intentional or not) as to their age by those selling them .
> They all come with a seal that should break the circular crest when opened.
> There is printing on the seal visible under UV light.
> The codes in red on the seal mean something relating to the box code. Two alphas 6 numbers started in 2000 with AA 000001.
> First 2 digits should be different under the UV.
> Lonsdales are the most frequently tight drawing cigars.
> Blend changes occurred in many brands in 1995 to milder ones.
> The tobacco changes somewhat every year as the seed is a hybrid.
> Small RG Cubans can be shockingly strong and flavorful.
> The traditional wrapper was changed to a more desease resistant one in 2000
> Cohibas purportedly are the only triple fermented brand (others are double)
> Generally only a few thin RG cigars from the 80's can still be found at retail.
> Generally only medium RG cigars from the mid 90's can be found at retail.
> There is a reason it is hard to find larger RG cigars with age on them.
> 1999-2001 cigar boom years can have more production and leaf quality issues.
> Many feel that 2003 and forward cigar quality has been superior...
> This may be the result of better QC and aged leaf being used.
> Recent CA article stated H Upmann factory using 99-00 bales now for 06-07 cigars.
> Cohiba Behikes are friggin ridiculously priced.
> Habanos SA holograms are only put on boxes made for domestic (cuba) consumption.
> Holograms generally = fakes and usually come with a story about a friend or brother.
> Did I mention they they taste better?


WHAT ARE YOU DOING DAVE????

Don't listen to him, what he ment to say was....

*
These "Hope Cigars" most ARE real if:*

You bought it on a street anywhere in the world.
If came to you from a "friend" who knows a guy/girl.
A Cuban connection is involved
Cruise ships and the places they stop (LCDH Stores excluded).
Mexico (LCDH stores excluded)
Domestic tobacco shop back room.
It was a "deal" (Fer Christ sake click a banner ad somewhere and compare prices.. too good to be true is just that)

Posting questions and or pictures about cigars acquired through any of the methods above is probably going to end up badly. Take your hope cigars and smoke them. Then read and learn how to get some from a reputable source.

*FAKE Cuban cigars have the following qualities:*

Have a very controlled distribution and pricing process. (!/2 price don't ever happen)
They taste better.
Older ones taste alot better.
They are more expensive than the typically promoted NC cigars.
They are less expensive than their comparable NC counterparts.
They are "puros" rolled only from Cuban leaf.
Generally they are produced/smoked in smaller RG than NC.
When fresh their ash is darker grey&#8230; lighter as they age. (generally)
They come in dress boxes and cabinets with slide lid boxes. (generally)
They all have triple caps. Though I've seen a few with 4.
Smoking them slower makes them taste better.
Most people store them at 65% vs 70% for NC.
I store them to smoke at 60%.
Using humidification beads is a good way to maintain their humidity.
Most used to taste sort of yucky fresh as they are not rolled from "aged tobacco".
In the past few years they seem to be better fresh due to factory upgrades or other things.
Only serendipity and clumsiness causes them to roll on virgins thighs.
Since 2000 they have month, year and 3 digit factory codes stamped on the box.
From 1985-2000 they had factory codes and "coded" year month codes.
May-Dec of 1999 NETAGIDOCU (1=n, etc.) to determine the year month they were produced.
1985 - 1999 NIVELACUSO (1=n, etc) to determine year month they were produced.
A burned tobacco leaf with Cubatobacco on the bottom of the box = 1985-1995
HECHO EN CUBA burned on the bottom of the box means the cigars were produced in 1961 forward
1994 and forward cubatobacco replaced by Habanos S A on the bottom of the box.
Pre 85 cigars are frequently misrepresented (intentional or not) as to their age by those selling them .
They all come with a seal that should break the circular crest when opened.
There is printing on the seal visible under UV light.
The codes in red on the seal mean something relating to the box code. Two alphas 6 numbers started in 2000 with AA 000001. 
First 2 digits should be different under the UV.
Lonsdales are the most frequently tight drawing cigars.
Blend changes occurred in many brands in 1995 to milder ones.
The tobacco changes somewhat every year as the seed is a hybrid.
Small RG Cubans can be shockingly strong and flavorful.
The traditional wrapper was changed to a more desease resistant one in 2000
Cohibas purportedly are the only triple fermented brand (others are double)
Generally only a few thin RG cigars from the 80's can still be found at retail.
Generally only medium RG cigars from the mid 90's can be found at retail.
There is a reason it is hard to find larger RG cigars with age on them.
1999-2001 cigar boom years can have more production and leaf quality issues.
Many feel that 2003 and forward cigar quality has been superior...
This may be the result of better QC and aged leaf being used.
Recent CA article stated H Upmann factory using 99-00 bales now for 06-07 cigars.
Cohiba Behikes are friggin ridiculously priced.
Habanos SA holograms are only put on boxes made for domestic (cuba) consumption.
Holograms generally = fakes and usually come with a story about a friend or brother.
Did I mention they they taste better?

More for ME!!!:tu:ss


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## j6ppc

nice spoof


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## Blueface

j6ppc said:


> nice spoof


To keep the "spoof" theme going, pleaser refer to this thread if you are interested in more information on real Cubans.:r

http://www.clubstogie.com/vb/showthread.php?t=91838


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## Da Klugs

stig said:


> OK, I'm having a reaaaaaly slow day. Can you define a few of the abbreviations for me?
> 
> MVV = *Mega Volume Vendor*
> LCDH = *La Casa del Habano*
> NIVELACUSO =*A Code used on Boxes to determine date N=1, I=2, etc.*
> NETAGIDOCU =*A Code used on Boxes to determine date N=1, E=2, etc.*


:ss


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## pnoon

Go easy on him, Dave. He may be related but I got the brains in the family. (He got the looks. )


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## macms

Nothing to contribute. I just want to say I'm really enjoying reading this thread. You guys are hilarious! 
(And informative)


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## icehog3

pnoon said:


> (He got the looks. )


Ya don't say!!

:r


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## j6ppc

pnoon said:


> Go easy on him, Dave. He may be related but I got the brains in the family. (He got the looks. )


And you got the... Peter????


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## pnoon

icehog3 said:


> Ya don't say!!
> 
> :r


:tg & :fu, Tom.


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## moki

stig said:


> I found this site here which I think might also be helpful to some in determining wheter or not their cigars are "Real" or "Fake"
> 
> http://www.cigarnexus.com/counsel/counterfeit/
> 
> Lot's of good information here.


Yes, I cited that here: * Advice for Cuban cigar buyers: Don't be this guy!*

Wilkey has also put together some great information here:

http://www.vitolas.net/thumbnails.php?album=43

...and there's some good info here too:

http://www.vitolas.net/thumbnails.php?album=19

In fact there's so much good into out there, it almost explains the impatience displayed when people ask "It is real??"


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## BigVito

moki said:


> Yes, I cited that here: * Advice for Cuban cigar buyers: Don't be this guy!*
> 
> Wilkey has also put together some great information here:
> 
> http://www.vitolas.net/thumbnails.php?album=43
> 
> ...and there's some good info here too:
> 
> http://www.vitolas.net/thumbnails.php?album=19
> 
> In fact there's so much good into out there, it almost explains the impatience displayed when people ask "It is real??"


I know that guy :r


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## icehog3

pnoon said:


> :tg & :fu, Tom.


I love you too Peter.


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## mash

Thanks for all of this great information. Can I ask about another definition, I haven't been able to find this with search. ISOM?


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## kvaughan

*I*sland *S*outh *O*f *M*iami


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## mash

kvaughan said:


> *I*sland *S*outh *O*f *M*iami


Thanks for the help.


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## daniyal

Da Klugs said:


> Try this...
> 
> Holograms on cigar Boxes in LCDH stores in Mexico does not mean they are fake.
> 
> Cigars and cigar boxes purchased anywhere else in Mexico? ... the holograms if present, might smoke better than the cigars.


 Once imported certain nations require that authentic Cubans carry a hologram. The size or shape of the hologram depends on where you buy it from I remember getting some from Dubai Duty Free some time back that had seals from several government agencies to ensure authenticity.


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## Wolfgang8810

Bruce said:


> I think the large cigar thing is still very prevelant, and is more a preference or "state of mind".
> There are a lot of smokers out there who simply will not smoke a smaller ring gauge cigar. Case in point; I was in Germany this past winter and I offered the managers of the La Casa del Habanos in Colonge Davidoff Chateau Margauxs. They took them hesitantly stating that "this is not my size". However, after smoking them, they were surprised about how much flavor came from a small cigar.
> 
> You cannot believe how many times cigar smokers have turned down a vintage or rare cigar because it was "not their size".
> I believe that some of this derives from the old myth that smaller cigars are effeminate. This myth still lives on to this day.
> I also see this amongst new cigar smokers who believe that you cannot get flavor and complexity from small RG cigars. There WERE a lot of FOG's right here on this board that I personally had to dispell that myth. They were amazed at the flavors that came out of a 28 to 33 RG cigar....cigars like Dunhill Atados, La Escepcion Longos, or a Dunhill Don Candido 508.


I personally prefer a smaller RG i rarely can get through a churchill without feeling sick at the end.


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## miana_silvius

thanks for the info.


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