# Copy of complaint letter to JR Cigars



## veteranvmb (Aug 6, 2009)

This is a copy of the online complaint file I started with Jr. Cigars. Please forgive the wordiness, as I tried to make it as terse as possible, while still getting the situation across.

I will post if I here anything.

Much regards Jerry

Dear JR Cigars
In reference to the above mentioned order number, and subsequent contact by telephone with one of your customer service agents and a supervisor, I am writing to you on this day. 
On the 24th of August 2010, I place an order on line with your company. The order included a box of cao gold in double corona size, two five packs of your jr ultimate cabinet # 30, and a 10 cigar Dominican robusto selection. 
One enticement to ordering the box of cao gold, was the offer of a 4 pack assortment of robusto sized cao cigars. 
Upon checking the size of these cigars in your catalog, as well as other sources readily available on line, you will see the size of these cigars as stated are 5.00 x 50, for the two varieties of the cao robusto included in this sample. 
Now let me regress a bit if you do not mind. I have been buying cigars from your stores directly in person in North Carolina. I was stationed in Havelock North Carolina, at Marine Corps Air Station Cherry Point since 1964 till 1994. 
Over those thirty years I have purchased what is probably tens of thousands of dollars worth of cigars. Along with my fellow Marines I can guarantee you upwards of a lot more revenue then that. 
I live in New York City, and also shop quite frequently at your store in Paramus New Jersey, as well as occasional orders direct on line with you and your various dutch auctions. 
If you check your credit card receipts on my direct purchases from your North Carolina stores, I think you will be astounded. 
Now let's get to the present. I received this order from you promptly as usual. Upon opening the box, I immediately noticed that the 4 pack assortment were not Robusto Sized. They said Robusto on the packing slip, they said Robusto on the plastic it was wrapped in, but they were not the stated Robusto size. They were closer to 4.00 by 46. 
Now I do understand this is a small matter, but a matter still. I wanted to understand what is going on. Look at your own catalogue and see what size a robusto should be on these cigars and you will see a discrepancy. 
I called up customer service and spoke with a lady, who basically said to me, we are not going to do anything about this. Its cao,s problem, and I should deal with them. I nicely said to the customer service rep, that I purchased the cigars from you, and not Cao, and I needed some customer satisfaction. 
She basically said they were free, so what am I complaining about. I said I do not look at them as being free. Yes I was not charged for them, but look at it, as a reduction in the price of the box. An enticement to buy the box. If it was just free, then you would have sent me a 4 pack with out any other purchases. 
She asked why I was calling again, and I said I wanted some customer satisfaction. She then put me on to a supervisor, who told me her computer says the free cigars are "assorted sizes", but that's not what your online web size states, when they entice you with the free offer on a box purchase. Plus my invoice says robusto. She asked me what I wanted. I said how about giving me a credit towards my next purchase, or how about sending me one free cigar of something through the post office. 
She said no way. I said I would never purchase another cigar from Jr again, unless I get some satisfaction. She promptly said, that's my choice. I told her you didn't really mean that, and I would give her one more chance to alleviate the situation otherwise I would write to JR directly. She basically said good day sir, we sell a million cigars a day, and you wont affect us at all. At that point I hung up. 
Dear Jr, I am not a writer , but this is the situation as far as I can recount. This is no way to do business, and I have posted this on several forums for cigar smokers, and there will be lots of serious cigar smokers who will no longer purchase from you. As well as three nearby Marine Corps bases and stations. 
This started out as a phone query as to a small sizing problem, but was escalated by your inefficient, uncooperative, undermining, belittling, uncompromising, unjustified customer service situation. What has happened to Southern Charm and hospitality since I was there? 
In these days of a tough economy and difficulties in the Cigar industry as your last catalogue so proudly stated with eyes a tearing, I ceased to have any sympathy for you.

With deepest regrets for your company Jerry


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## GTCharged (Nov 3, 2008)

Good on you man!
There is no way they should have done that to you. And especially since you've been buying for 30 odd years!
Plus, word of mouth can get pretty far.


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## perry7762 (Jul 27, 2010)

yes it does. i was just going to place my first order from them tonight. NOPE


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## Cigary (Oct 19, 2007)

That's about as succinct a letter as I have read and is straight to the point..dont know how they can miss it. I sent my letter and got a formatted response which basically means they got my letter with no formal response promised. I don't expect one because the more I "google" and research all of the problematic issues this company gets they aren't prepared to acknowledge it. I hope Jerry gets a response but companies like this tend to think their shyte doesn't stink and they can do whatever they want.


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## TonyBrooklyn (Jan 28, 2010)

Great letter Jerry. Unfortunately i think it will fall on deaf ears! I had a similar problem once with a company . They sent me the wrong item and expected me to pay the shipping to send it back. Needless to say i did and never did business with them again. Still can't figure it to this day as i spent about $5,000 a year with them.:shocked:


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## Nickerson (Mar 19, 2009)

4"x46? I'd love to try that size! What cigars were they. You got pics? If your not happy with them sell to me. 

Sorry to hear bout it though Jerry.

The Brazilia Piranha's are 4.5"x46. They make this size for Italia and Criollo and a few others as well. I love this size. Other than that they have a 4"x38 size for quite a few cigars as well, which are tins.


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## AJ FERNANDEZ FAN (Aug 10, 2010)

Well thats well thought out.....Good imput!!!!!


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## orca99usa (May 23, 2008)

It will be interesting to see if they have the cojones to reply with anything resembling a meaningful response. Good for you - and count me among those who will not buy from JR Cigar as a result of your experience.


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## Magnate (Nov 27, 2009)

I think this is what they're talking about when they say "too big to fail" 

RIP Customer Service


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## msandoval858 (Aug 28, 2010)

It's unfortunate that this seems to be how customer service is headed these days with many big companies. Whether you've been buying cigars for 30 years or 30 days, you should never be treated that way as a paying customer. I hope someone up the chain gets that.


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## oldforge (Apr 30, 2008)

I am mystified by the 4 x 46 size as well.

I smoke a wide variety of smaller CAOS and have never seen one that size.

The most common small size CAO sampler is the "World sampler". I just pulled one out to measure it and the smokes were 5 x 50.

Could you post a picture of your notorious sampler, please?


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## Aficionado82 (Jul 5, 2010)

The thing that amazes me is that it sounds like Jerry is a big spender there. I could see them doing something like this to a first time newbie buyer (not that it would be right in that case either). Hopefully someone at JR gives a hoot about their customers and not only makes this right, but they give the CSR & the supervisor a new orifice near their posterior one. :spank: :boxing:


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## chaone (Aug 1, 2010)

Any letter to a big company should be short, concise and straight to the point or it stands the chance of not being read. Wait a couple of weeks and follow up with a letter no more than 300 words. Best of luck to you.


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## Amichuck (Jan 29, 2010)

Why don't you call Lew at the Whippany NJ store. He is the owner. I believe his last name is Rothman.


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## xJaCkSlApx (May 7, 2010)

"She basically said good day sir, we sell a million cigars a day, and you wont affect us at all. At that point I hung up."

LOL


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## veteranvmb (Aug 6, 2009)

I will post up, if and when I hear something. If you look at the jr catalogue, you will see the cao robusto as a 5.0 x 50. The four they sent me was 4.17x 46. I was calling for an explanation, of the size difference and it was jr who elevated this to a big problem, as oppossed to a minor annoyance. 

Jerry


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## foster0724 (Jun 9, 2010)

Be interesting to see if you even get a response other than something computer generated. I have never ordered from them but frequently look over the site. This will definitely deter me from placing an order.


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## Cigary (Oct 19, 2007)

Here's an update as Lew Rothman is on another Cigar Forum and I told him about the personal letter I wrote to him concerning what is going on with his Customer Service...will be interesting to see if he responds since this goes directly to his personal account. Stay tuned kids!


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## russ812 (Aug 14, 2010)

Reading this I will NEVER buy from JR now. I've spent plenty at Holt's and just recently made my first CI purchase (even bought from Thompson way back when) but just by happenstance I've never bought from JR.

...and now I never will. There are other B&M and online retailers that actually care about their customers, no matter how small.

Good luck, I hope they get back to you and make up for it in a big way.


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## gibson_es (Jan 23, 2010)

the only robusto CAO i smoke regularly is the brazilia, and i believe it is the correct size... 

just out of curiousity, with the ones you have, do cao sell a 5.0 x 50 or are what they sent you the robusto of that cigar and its just smaller then normal?

eather way this is all about principal at this point and not the cigars them selves anyway, i will not by from them unless this gets fixed in a way that makes you happy..... i already stopped using UPS, not that im really doing any damage as i only ship out like 5 or 6 times a year. but again, its principal.


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## Cigary (Oct 19, 2007)

I did receive a reply from Mr. Rothman and here is his statement. I have my own opinion of his reasoning and logic but suffice to say I'm not very impressed as it seems to suggest that it's just one of those "whoopsie moments" that their numbers for successful CS and packing orders are 99% while 1% of consumer complaints are nothing really to worry about. Instead of saying to me that CS is a priority he's saying that "shit happens" basically and while orders are going fine the company can treat this as something of a nuisance by people on forums ( BB's ). I would think that getting the CS Dept. Head into my office and ensuring that a directive be issued for how all future responses are to be given would be the priority but "copying" the letter and sending it out seems to be his way of being proactive and handling this. I wish this guy 'rots aruck' in the future as I'm very adament that his company will never see a dime from me with his "Oh well" attitude.

*The 4 cigar sampler was in fact supplied by CAO - so the size issue is of their making. Nevertheless, the answer by the customer service person clearly sucks. I don't blame this guy for being pissed off. Even worse he's a fellow ex-marine !

I'm going to copy that letter and give it to the guy who is in charge of all mail order operations. Unfortunately there's not much either of us can do without knowing who the customer is and who the CS rep. is.

Realistically you have to treat the BB's like the nightly news. 99 people do a good deed for some stranger and you never hear about it. One person gets mugged by a multiple offender and it's headline news. Day in and day out our CS department does an excellent job, but there's always turnover and the occasional bad apple.

What goes completely un-noticed is the incredible jod our packing crew does. Incorrect orders are virtually unknown - yet I have never seen a single word written or a note received that says: "I've been buying cigars from JR for 40 years and never had an improperly filled order or a crushed box of cigars". *


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## veteranvmb (Aug 6, 2009)

Cigary said:


> I did receive a reply from Mr. Rothman and here is his statement. I have my own opinion of his reasoning and logic but suffice to say I'm not very impressed as it seems to suggest that it's just one of those "whoopsie moments" that their numbers for successful CS and packing orders are 99% while 1% of consumer complaints are nothing really to worry about. Instead of saying to me that CS is a priority he's saying that "shit happens" basically and while orders are going fine the company can treat this as something of a nuisance by people on forums ( BB's ). I would think that getting the CS Dept. Head into my office and ensuring that a directive be issued for how all future responses are to be given would be the priority but "copying" the letter and sending it out seems to be his way of being proactive and handling this. I wish this guy 'rots aruck' in the future as I'm very adament that his company will never see a dime from me with his "Oh well" attitude.
> 
> *The 4 cigar sampler was in fact supplied by CAO - so the size issue is of their making. Nevertheless, the answer by the customer service person clearly sucks. I don't blame this guy for being pissed off. Even worse he's a fellow ex-marine !
> 
> ...


 I received a phone call from JR cigars yesterday afternoon, but I was not home. Only a name and number was left. 
I tried calling back this morning, but told the person will not be in till after noon. 
Not sure if I will be home for most of afternoon, so I will see what happens. 
Will post up. 
And to answer a few queries, the very same cigars, included in the "robusto sampler" are sold by JR cigars and listed in their catalog as 5.00 x 50 in robusto sized. 
One of my questions to customer service was if I was to buy a box of these particular caos, (2 different ones) would I be receiving the size in the catalog of 5.00 x 50 or the shortened and smaller ones they sent me?
Both customer service personal said they didnt know. I asked if they could go into stock and check? They said we do not do that. 
This is what I have been dealing with. Incredible.

Much regards Jerry


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## USM_Eagle (Jun 14, 2010)

Interesting. Hope all turns out well for you.

I've only purchased from them once b/c everything else I seem to get cheaper elsewhere and with better protection when shipped.


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## Cigary (Oct 19, 2007)

veteranvmb said:


> I received a phone call from JR cigars yesterday afternoon, but I was not home. Only a name and number was left.
> I tried calling back this morning, but told the person will not be in till after noon.
> Not sure if I will be home for most of afternoon, so I will see what happens.
> Will post up.
> ...


*After all of this I consider Mr. Rothman and his associates buffoons who sidestep real issues with a tap dance and "away we go" mentality. A business either takes care of their consumers without the BS or they don't and that's the bottom line. Sidestepping is a smoke and mirrors action and when a business resorts to that kind of policy I'm done with em no matter what they sale. Good luck with these clowns.:beerchug:*


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## TheFreakShow (Jul 13, 2010)

I find this part pretty funny

- yet I have never seen a single word written or a note received that says: "I've been buying cigars from JR for 40 years and never had an improperly filled order or a crushed box of cigars".

Maybe because that has never happened? Don't think he helped himself with that statement. I also don't buy his line about only hearing the negative. Since I have been a member here at Puff.com, I have seen pretty good advice both for and against vendors.


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## Habano (Jul 5, 2010)

Hmm and the plot thickens. Just speechless after reading the letter and the updates. Will look forward to the update once you reach the person that called you. Hopefully they can track down this CS rep and justice can be served.


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## Aficionado82 (Jul 5, 2010)

Cigary said:


> *The 4 cigar sampler was in fact supplied by CAO - so the size issue is of their making. Nevertheless, the answer by the customer service person clearly sucks. I don't blame this guy for being pissed off. Even worse he's a fellow ex-marine !
> 
> I'm going to copy that letter and give it to the guy who is in charge of all mail order operations. Unfortunately there's not much either of us can do without knowing who the customer is and who the CS rep. is.
> 
> ...


Guy definitely sounds like a first rate ass hat. Unless something drastic happens I will not be buying from them ever, and anyone I come across who is remotely interested in the cigar hobby will be informed about this company's BS CS. :mad2:


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## gibson_es (Jan 23, 2010)

guys, i swear there is a fairly newish thread about the great shipping from them, you should send him a link and tell him were to shove it...


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## Cigary (Oct 19, 2007)

gibson_es said:


> guys, i swear there is a fairly newish thread about the great shipping from them, you should send him a link and tell him were to shove it...


*Lol,,,as much as Mr. Rothman zigs and zags you'd be hard pressed to stick anything up this guys keister. He reminds me of this character:*

YouTube - Charles Durning "Dance a Little Sidestep"


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## Hermit (Aug 5, 2008)

I don't see anything wrong with Lew's answer. :dunno:
I can't comment on their customer service,
since I've never needed to contact them.
I've been a happy customer for many years.

One minor problem with a company's customer service
wouldn't necessarily make me abandon them.
I sure wouldn't boycott a good company because
somebody else had a beef with them.


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## Blaylock-cl (Apr 28, 2006)

Since there's an updated thread, I'm closing this one up.

http://www.cigarforums.net/forums/vb/general-cigar-discussion/275117-jr-update.html


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