# Magicos, Secretos, or Genios?



## mvorbrodt

So which Cohiba Maduro should I try first? I'm looking for the sweetest and creamiest Maduro. And since I got paid today it's time for another box


----------



## asmartbull

Martin
I think you will find that all need a LOT of time. All have great potential. If you are looking to enjoy sooner rather than later, go small RG...


----------



## Habanolover

Secretos hands down. As bullman said, these need quite a few years down time. (Think 5 minimum)


----------



## Son Of Thor

I have only tried the secretos, and I'd have to check again but I think my box is from late 09. I've only had two, but the first few draws were great and then they were all down hill from there for me. Like bull said, I think they just need a lot more time.


----------



## mvorbrodt

asmartbull said:


> Martin
> I think you will find that all need a LOT of time. All have great potential. If you are looking to enjoy sooner rather than later, go small RG...


But, but, but, aren't the maduros aged already? So you're saying NON of them are good out of the box?


----------



## Rodeo

Got a box of 07 Secretos about a year ago, smoked one and put the rest at the very bottom of my cooler. Maybe I'll try another one next year


----------



## Cigary

*Bull and Donnie are correct and yes, even the Maddies need some 'sack time' as Maduros are my favorite wrapper on everything...even candy bars.

Magicos are a deeper chocolate and leather and have a bit more age to them. I think they are more powerful than the Secretos which have a bit more vanilla to them with hints of cedar/nutmeg and some say cinnamon...I think it's more nutmeg but WTH do I know.

The Genios are going to hit your wallet a bit harder and they are a bit more 'subdued' in terms of overall flavor but still a good cigar. I like all of them but my heart goes to the Secretos. Maybe you should get 5 paks of all 3? lol*


----------



## Frinkiac7

I had an 08 that I sat on for almost two years and just recently smoked, my impatience being such that I figured close to two years was enough and it was time to fire it up.

At that stage, it was doggier than many a doggy, canine, dog rocket. 

I wish I would have waited five years...but at my age, even two years seemed like an eternity.


----------



## mvorbrodt

Well my box of Genios just came in today.
Those wrappers are so oily and sticky it's unbelievable! Plus it looks like the cigars are not packed tight. They all feel loose... means awesome draw 
Well i'll let them sit for a few weeks to get the RH to stabilize, then I'll probably light one up for good measures 

W00T!


----------



## aea6574

Nice haul Martin, I really like those 50's. Still not sure about the Maduro Cohibas.

Best regards, tony


----------



## TonyBrooklyn

Stay away from all of them Martin IMHO they all stink. Many have nick named them the Manuro line. For obvious reasons!



mvorbrodt said:


> So which Cohiba Maduro should I try first? I'm looking for the sweetest and creamiest Maduro. And since I got paid today it's time for another box


----------



## Mante

TonyBrooklyn said:


> Stay away from all of them Martin IMHO they all stink. Many have nick named them the Manuro line. For obvious reasons!


Works for me too! The less that are sold, the more the price comes down & to those of us that think this cigar will be great in a few years, ie me, all is good if you all keep hating on them.


----------



## TonyBrooklyn

Tashaz said:


> Works for me too! The less that are sold, the more the price comes down & to those of us that think this cigar will be great in a few years, ie me, all is good if you all keep hating on them.


I agree my brother i love when someone hates something i like. I can get it easily and usually on sale. I notice many that like the Manuro also smoke Non Cubans regularly. I have yet to meet a Cuban cigar only smoker that likes them. To me they taste more non Cuban than Cuban. I am curious what do you think ? What i mean is their taste is very un Cohiba like and IMHO leans toward a more non Cuban taste. Do you also find this to be true? Or is it just my snobby palate?:beerchug:


----------



## Mante

TonyBrooklyn said:


> I agree my brother i love when someone hates something i like. I can get it easily and usually on sale. I notice many that like the Manuro also smoke Non Cubans regularly. I have yet to meet a Cuban cigar only smoker that likes them. To me they taste more non Cuban than Cuban. I am curious what do you think ? What i mean is their taste is very un Cohiba like and IMHO leans toward a more non Cuban taste. Do you also find this to be true? Or is it just my snobby palate?:beerchug:


It's just your snobby palate. The Maduro 5 line is a big step out of the whole Cohiba line and indeed the Cuban lineas. I give them credit for trying it. I smoke way more Cubans than NC's and still think these will be astounding in time. Too much weight is put on the history BS when it comes to Cubans IMHO. I've been smoking nearly 5 years and to be honest I dont give a rats ass what a 50yo Cuban cigar should taste like & whether the current releases are true to their marcas. I know what I enjoy & refuse to give a shit about the history.


----------



## TonyBrooklyn

Tashaz said:


> It's just your snobby palate. The Maduro 5 line is a big step out of the whole Cohiba line and indeed the Cuban lineas. I give them credit for trying it. I smoke way more Cubans than NC's and still think these will be astounding in time. Too much weight is put on the history BS when it comes to Cubans IMHO. I've been smoking nearly 5 years and to be honest I dont give a rats ass what a 50yo Cuban cigar should taste like & whether the current releases are true to their marcas. I know what I enjoy & refuse to give a shit about the history.


Wow who pissed in your corn flakes this morning?:welcome:


----------



## Mante

TonyBrooklyn said:


> Wow who pissed in your corn flakes this morning?:welcome:


You asked for my thoughts and you got them without any sugar coating Tony. To continually refer to a Linea that you know I'm partial to as "Manuro" is a little annoying.


----------



## Mante

BTW Tony it's 9PM, no one gets near my cereal bowl till it's empty, I've had a great day & life is good! :moony::spank::kicknuts::mischief:


----------



## sirxlaughs

Traditionally, the maduro wrappers were used in the LEs, which most people know as being amazing from Cohiba. The Sublimes are arguably some of the best Cohiba has ever done. As that maduro wrapper blends with the rest of the cigar's tobaccos, I think the maduro line is going to evolve into something very different (probably with more espresso and sweet notes) than the "standard" Cohiba. The only thing I don't like about them is the price, but that's just part of the Cohiba brand. You gotta pay to play, as they say.


----------



## TonyBrooklyn

Tashaz said:


> You asked for my thoughts and you got them without any sugar coating Tony. To continually refer to a Linea that you know I'm partial to as "Manuro" is a little annoying.


Sorry your sense of humor is all used up for today. I thought you had an endless supply. Be it that i hold your friendship in the highest regard. I shall not engage in our usual playful manner. Till you give me the go sign.:moony::beerchug::dude:


----------



## TonyBrooklyn

Tashaz said:


> BTW Tony it's 9PM, no one gets near my cereal bowl till it's empty, I've had a great day & life is good! :moony::spank::kicknuts::mischief:


Now that's better i take it this is a go!:clap2::hmm::beerchug:


----------



## Mante

TonyBrooklyn said:


> Now that's better i take it this is a go!:clap2::hmm::beerchug:


Go? Go bugger off. LMAO. :moony:


----------



## asmartbull

I think the maddy's are a tough sell since there are more
expensive and they clearly need 5 yrs to be enjoyed.
I bought mine on the advise of rothers here, and was disappointed
It may have been because it didn't resemble the cohiba profile
or it was just to young.
These days I look for sticks with a few years on them, because I
don't have the discipline to invest for 10 yrs in the future...


----------



## TonyBrooklyn

asmartbull said:


> I think the maddy's are a tough sell since there are more
> expensive and they clearly need 5 yrs to be enjoyed.
> I bought mine on the advise of rothers here, and was disappointed
> It may have been because it didn't resemble the cohiba profile
> or it was just to young.
> These days I look for sticks with a few years on them, because I
> don't have the discipline to invest for 10 yrs in the future...


I am with you my brother paying a premuim and having to wait for something to maybe come around never makes any sense to me.:beerchug:


----------



## bouncintiga

either of you guys buy behikes? lol.. k that might be a little OT.


----------



## tpharkman

It looks to me like I will be in a home and wearing Depends before any of these Cohiba maddies are ready to be enjoyed. 

I think I will have to pass.


----------



## mvorbrodt

*WHY OH WHY~?!?!?*

Why would Habanos S.A. sell cigars that need aging?

Do they think all their sticks are ready to smoke? Or do they know they're rushing things but choose to ignore it due to the fact that they have the best stuff anyways.

I just wonder... are those Maduros really that bad right now comparing to what they CAN be in 5 years? I mean there are people smoking Cubans rolled just few months ago and liking it.

Do they REALLY need aging?

This is so frustrating!


----------



## bouncintiga

mvorbrodt said:


> *WHY OH WHY~?!?!?*
> 
> Why would Habanos S.A. sell cigars that need aging?
> 
> Do they think all their sticks are ready to smoke? Or do they know they're rushing things but choose to ignore it due to the fact that they have the best stuff anyways.
> 
> I just wonder... are those Maduros really that bad right now comparing to what they CAN be in 5 years? I mean there are people smoking Cubans rolled just few months ago and liking it.
> 
> Do they REALLY need aging?
> 
> This is so frustrating!


smoke one yet? lol try one and find out if they're to your liking.


----------



## Rodeo

Cool thing about this hobby is it doesn't matter what anyone else thinks :whoo:

Fire one up. Maybe you'll like it. Maybe you'll LOVE it. Maybe you'll decide to put them down for 3 months and try another. Maybe you'll stick them in the bottom of the cooler, remember them in 5 years, and have a religious experience. Or, you might pitch them in the trash in disgust.

Just come back and tell us so we can argue about the merits of the stick some more :dude:


----------



## TonyBrooklyn

mvorbrodt said:


> *WHY OH WHY~?!?!?*
> 
> Why would Habanos S.A. sell cigars that need aging?
> 
> Do they think all their sticks are ready to smoke? Or do they know they're rushing things but choose to ignore it due to the fact that they have the best stuff anyways.
> 
> I just wonder... are those Maduros really that bad right now comparing to what they CAN be in 5 years? I mean there are people smoking Cubans rolled just few months ago and liking it.
> 
> Do they REALLY need aging?
> 
> This is so frustrating!


Its not really that they are so bad well to me they are. Simply because i don't like the flavor profile. Many attribute it to the lack of aging. The fillers are aged 2 or 3 years and the wrapper 5. So me thinks that many that are putting them into storage waiting for them to turn around. Will be disappointed when they wake them up. I mean they are already aged or at least advertised as such. So IMHO if you don't like em now you probably won't later.:frusty:


----------



## Frinkiac7

The general "snob" consensus is that ALL Habanos need to be well-aged before they can be enjoyed. It is certainly true that, unlike most NC manufacturers, Habanos SA doesn't let their cigars sit and age after being rolled, they just ship them out. So there is definitely something to having to let them age. Now, five years, as you will find many old guard aficionados recommending for practically EVERY cigar, might be a little excessive, but then again it certainly can't hurt. I think most people will agree a well-aged Habano is a totally different animal from young ones, even when the young ones are good. There is also the real issue of the "sick period" as young Habanos go through their initial post-rolling fermentations and need to be set aside until the process is over. 

I think the majority of American smokers just aren't into extended aging, and when they migrate to Cubans, they take the "smoke em young" mentality of NCs with them. Whether that's just part of our impatient national character, or a holdover from how NC manufacturers roll and age their cigars, who knows. I think everyone agrees aging is great and ideal, but we have nothing like the culture of aging cigars for decades, or the Hunters and Frankau vaults where ancient cigars are stored, or the "minimum three to five years" rule, that seems to be much more established in Europe.

My only experience with the Cohiba Maduro line was decidedly "manuro," unfortunately (sorry Tashaz!). Granted, it was a single, bought January 09 so probably from 2008, and I smoked it this August 2010 and was profoundly disappointed. Could have been a bad example, probably needed a lot more age...20 months wasn't enough. 

At the time, I had been (and am still) off of the NC horse for so very long, that it didn't occur to me that I was getting NC flavors, I just didn't like what I was getting at all. Now that Tony mentioned it, I guess if I were still an NC smoker and you would have handed me that same dud Maduro 5, I probably would have thought a little better of it. It's definitely more along the lines of NC maduros and has those smokers in mind. "Maduro" as a wrapper and flavor characteristic, and something that's particularly marketed, is a very NC phenomenon. Up until the Maduro 5 line, it was just another shade of wrapper color for the Cubans. I think all will agree the Maduro 5 line was definitely undertaken with Yanks in mind...their love of maduros, the concentration on fatter ring gauges, two out of three sizes right around the robusto range...all of this screams "American market." 

Anyway, your mileage may vary, and with a box of 10, you're bound to find a better example than mine turned out to be. If that were my box of 10, I'd definitely force myself to hide it away for a long time before I dug into it...based on my previous experience.

In any case Martin, enjoy!


----------



## Mante

bouncintiga said:


> either of you guys buy behikes? lol.. k that might be a little OT.


No, they just wait for me to pay ridiculous amounts for Behike singles to bomb with. :mischief::biglaugh:


----------



## asmartbull

Tashaz said:


> No, they just wait for me to pay ridiculous amounts for Behike singles to bomb with. :mischief::biglaugh:


And we truly appreciate it...thanks warren


----------



## TonyBrooklyn

Tashaz said:


> No, they just wait for me to pay ridiculous amounts for Behike singles to bomb with. :mischief::biglaugh:


Oh yes but that's why we love you AUSSIE PRINCE!:moony:


----------



## Mante

TonyBrooklyn said:


> Oh yes but that's why we love you AUSSIE PRINCE!:moony:


Prince? Your making me sound gay and Tash wont have that. LOL


----------



## mvorbrodt

Well Judd and I had a Genios Maduro this weekend...
...I'm disappointed. It was a strong leathery / tobacco tasting cigar. Not like the other CCs.

Lame! Now they occupy precious real-estate in my humi


----------



## asmartbull

mvorbrodt said:


> Well Judd and I had a Genios Maduro this weekend...
> ...I'm disappointed. It was a strong leathery / tobacco tasting cigar. Not like the other CCs.
> 
> Lame! Now they occupy precious real-estate in my humi


I am sitting on mine also,,,,I think the problem I had was
"very high expectations" and I couldn't help thinking
" I could have had a CoRo". The second one I had was much better, because I concentrated only on the cigar and paired it with Iced tea. Will revisit next Summer


----------



## TonyBrooklyn

mvorbrodt said:


> Well Judd and I had a Genios Maduro this weekend...
> ...I'm disappointed. It was a strong leathery / tobacco tasting cigar. Not like the other CCs.
> 
> Lame! Now they occupy precious real-estate in my humi


Trade them away for something you like. Many are crazy about them why i will never know!:mmph:


----------



## Frinkiac7

Yeah those inflated expectations really got me on the "_Manuro _5" (with apologies to Warren).

Habanos S.A. chasing the American market yet again...they saw the popularity of maduros in NCs and just HAD to jump on the bandwagon, and make some >50 rg smokes while they were at it. Not exactly a trend that bodes well if we look at how a lot of the EL's or special releases (Behike, etc.) have come out looking (huge ring gauges).

I understand them perhaps trying to follow the trend of maduros, thick ring cigars, whatever...at the same time, why can't they just be content with sticking with their time-honored formula?


----------



## avo_addict

The Maduro5 is the worst CC I've ever bought, not to mention overpriced. Bought the Genios and tried the Magicos and Secretos. All of them taste harsh even after a couple years.

For me, these are like the Padron 44th, 45th, and 46th. Not worth buying. There are other well-priced cigars with better taste.


----------



## gibson_es

First. I am an NC smoker. Very few CC's under my belt. 

That between ng said, the secretios is my favorite cigar, hands down. Of what I have had of coarse. Mo it don't taste very 'cuban' but there is this smoothness to them and am amazing leather that no other cigar seems to have. I drool when I see one.

Thanks again to warren and Fauzi for this btw.


----------



## sirxlaughs

Frinkiac7 said:


> Yeah those inflated expectations really got me on the "_Manuro _5" (with apologies to Warren).
> 
> Habanos S.A. chasing the American market yet again...they saw the popularity of maduros in NCs and just HAD to jump on the bandwagon, and make some >50 rg smokes while they were at it. Not exactly a trend that bodes well if we look at how a lot of the EL's or special releases (Behike, etc.) have come out looking (huge ring gauges).
> 
> I understand them perhaps trying to follow the trend of maduros, thick ring cigars, whatever...at the same time, why can't they just be content with sticking with their time-honored formula?


Chasing the American market? Isn't the American market the one chasing Habanos? Maduro wrappers have always been popular in many NC brands. More recently, we're seeing a rise in Connecticut Broadleaf wrapper (which is awesome, btw). The EL's are EL's. I think the only reason we don't see more maduro wrappers in Cuban cigars is b/c of the extra work and time involved with them. From all the streamlining and discontinuations, it seems that more work is not what they're looking for, unless you're a brand like Cohiba and can afford it. I think the Maduro series not being good currently has to do with a few things. One being the obvious personal taste preference. I've seen some good reviews, though not as many as the bad reviews. The other is youth. It's safe to say that most people understand that Cuban cigars are shipped with very young tobacco. Combine a youthful blend with a new, young, maduro wrapper and you have a disaster. I'm curious to see what they'll be like with properly aged tobacco.
As for the trend thing, it seems more to me that they're following their own trend. The Cohiba Sublime is often touted as the greatest Cohiba of all time. Maybe the Maduro 5 was their way of trying to make mini-Sublimes.


----------



## TonyBrooklyn

Frinkiac7 said:


> Yeah those inflated expectations really got me on the "_Manuro _5" (with apologies to Warren).
> 
> Habanos S.A. chasing the American market yet again...they saw the popularity of maduros in NCs and just HAD to jump on the bandwagon, and make some >50 rg smokes while they were at it. Not exactly a trend that bodes well if we look at how a lot of the EL's or special releases (Behike, etc.) have come out looking (huge ring gauges).
> 
> I understand them perhaps trying to follow the trend of maduros, thick ring cigars, whatever...at the same time, why can't they just be content with sticking with their time-honored formula?


Of course they are chasing the American market Ben it is the most lucrative market there is. For years many had to smoke inferior non Cubans. Then in 1997 or so abouts a wonderful thing happened. Anybody willing to take a chance could go online and buy what they want. It is a huge market i am sure many non Cuban smokers where the target when the Manuro 5 was created. Giving them a Maduro wrapper is a marketing gimmick that i would imagine have drawn many over. I personally never cared for maduro wrappers in Non Cubans. But in Cubans its even worse its unappealing to say the least. It changes an otherwise wonderful Cuban cigar into a monstrosity IMHO. Cuban cigars don't need all these extra gimmicks contrived by non Cuban cigar producers. You think about it the embargo created all the Dominican Nicaraguan Honduran cigar makers. Before the embargo all tobacco even in American made cigars was produced in Cuba. Those Clear Havana's and Bonded Havana's were some of the best cigars ever made to this day. You see when you have the best leaf making a cigar. It really doesn't matter who's rolling. If the embargo ever gets lifted and Americans can legally get Cubans. I bet in a year most of those other cigar makers will be closing up shop.op2:


----------



## gibson_es

TonyBrooklyn said:


> Of course they are chasing the American market Ben it is the most lucrative market there is. For years many had to smoke inferior non Cubans. Then in 1997 or so abouts a wonderful thing happened. Anybody willing to take a chance could go online and buy what they want. It is a huge market i am sure many non Cuban smokers where the target when the Manuro 5 was created. Giving them a Maduro wrapper is a marketing gimmick that i would imagine have drawn many over. I personally never cared for maduro wrappers in Non Cubans. But in Cubans its even worse its unappealing to say the least. It changes an otherwise wonderful Cuban cigar into a monstrosity IMHO. Cuban cigars don't need all these extra gimmicks contrived by non Cuban cigar producers. You think about it the embargo created all the Dominican Nicaraguan Honduran cigar makers. Before the embargo all tobacco even in American made cigars was produced in Cuba. Those Clear Havana's and Bonded Havana's were some of the best cigars ever made to this day. You see when you have the best leaf making a cigar. It really doesn't matter who's rolling. If the embargo ever gets lifted and Americans can legally get Cubans. I bet in a year most of those other cigar makers will be closing up shop.op2:


You might be right. But I dont care if I can get cuban at every cigar shop in town. Im still gonna go for my nubs and camachos at times. And I think there ate alot of people that feel the same. Way. Not to mention price. And quanity. If all of a sudden the embargo is lifted, cuba is not prepared, that I know of. So supplies will be low, cubana will still be hard to find. For the few years atleast. Not to mention price, cubana will be in demand so they will not budge on here price, they might even go up, so of NC companies just lower there prices a bit they will still sell plenty, you might see a couple companies go away, or a few less popular cigars might go away. But I the majority will still prosper.


----------



## TonyBrooklyn

gibson_es said:


> You might be right. But I dont care if I can get cuban at every cigar shop in town. Im still gonna go for my nubs and camachos at times. And I think there ate alot of people that feel the same. Way. Not to mention price. And quanity. If all of a sudden the embargo is lifted, cuba is not prepared, that I know of. So supplies will be low, cubana will still be hard to find. For the few years atleast. Not to mention price, cubana will be in demand so they will not budge on here price, they might even go up, so of NC companies just lower there prices a bit they will still sell plenty, you might see a couple companies go away, or a few less popular cigars might go away. But I the majority will still prosper.


Of course all this is speculation at best. IMHO the Cuban market will not be down in quantity for long. Look how fast China became the biggest manufacturer in the world. Once the idea's of Capitalism are in place all bets are off. There is no incentive to work harder right now. Or plant more tobacco still money talks 
:BS:BS:BS:BS:BS:BS:BS

walks!


----------



## gibson_es

TonyBrooklyn said:


> Of course all this is speculation at best. IMHO the Cuban market will not be down in quantity for long. Look how fast China became the biggest manufacturer in the world. Once the idea's of Capitalism are in place all bets are off. There is no incentive to work harder right now. Or plant more tobacco still money talks
> :BS:BS:BS:BS:BS:BS:BS
> 
> walks!


Yep, no way of truly knowing til it happens..

So we will just say im right and your wrong at leave it at that.

Lol. 
oke: :fencing:

Just messing witcha


----------



## TonyBrooklyn

gibson_es said:


> Yep, no way of truly knowing til it happens..
> 
> So we will just say im right and your wrong at leave it at that.
> 
> Lol.
> oke: :fencing:
> 
> Just messing witcha


Hey brother i used to being wrong i have been married and divorced twice!
ound:ound:ound:ound:ound::smoke:

No more :ballchain: for me!


----------



## gibson_es

No no, you have it backwards, a marriage works when your wrong, and doesn't when your right. Lol, tony that means your right.

Dammit. How did that get turned around on me?


----------



## TonyBrooklyn

gibson_es said:


> No no, you have it backwards, a marriage works when your wrong, and doesn't when your right. Lol, tony that means your right.
> 
> Dammit. How did that get turned around on me?


:eyebrows::rockon::smile:


----------



## mvorbrodt

TonyBrooklyn said:


> Trade them away for something you like. Many are crazy about them why i will never know!:mmph:


OK, who here is crazy about them? :eyebrows:


----------



## gibson_es

mvorbrodt said:


> OK, who here is crazy about them? :eyebrows:


This guy right here loves them. Lol.


----------

