# Calls Grow In NY To Fully Outlaw Tobacco



## jmt8706 (Jul 19, 2019)

Just saw this yesterday. Getting crazy over there. Link to article at bottom.


For years, New York City and state lawmakers have been working to make it harder and more expensive for residents to smoke. A public health group is now laying out an ambitious goal: Ending the sale of smokable tobacco products altogether. The New York State Public Health Association is among 148 organizations worldwide that signed onto a statement released Monday calling for governments to “commit to work towards phasing out sales of combustible tobacco products.”

“It's aspirational,” said Dr. Gus Birkhead, who serves as secretary of the New York State Public Health Association and worked in the state Health Department for 27 years. “It's trying to lay out a vision that I think most people who work in public health would agree with. Tobacco remains the leading cause of preventable death and premature disease in our population, despite years of trying to combat it.”


Such policy is rare but not unheard of: Beverly Hills became the first city in the country to pass such a ban in 2019, and the law took effect this year. The letter also comes amid a heated debate over tobacco prohibition in the U.S. sparked by the Food and Drug Administration’s announcement at the end of April that it is working on regulations to bar menthol cigarettes and flavored cigars. The FDA has already outlawed other flavors in cigarettes and vape products, arguing that the additives are too appealing for young people. About 9 in 10 adults who smoke daily try it before age 18.

New York State includes menthol in its current restrictions on flavored vape products. But legislation in Albany to get menthol cigarettes off the shelves has stalled so far; the bill has not made it out of the Health Committee in either the Senate or Assembly this session. Birkhead said getting state lawmakers to pass the bill is a top priority for his organization. “I suspect [the FDA regulations] will get tied up in court,” he added.

Similar legislation also failed to make it to a floor vote in the New York City Council in 2019 as local lawmakers took action on other tobacco restrictions. At the time, a spokesperson for Speaker Corey Johnson said in a statement that he “has heard the concerns that banning menthol cigarettes will create a black market in a community that has been over-policed in the past.”

In New York and at the federal level, prospective menthol bans have been the subject of controversy. Proponents say eliminating menthols, the preferred cigarette of most Black smokers, will promote health equity. But critics argue that Black people will be disproportionately targeted in the enforcement of new laws. In New York State, 86% of Black smokers prefer menthols, as do 72% of Latinos. The cigarettes are favored by just 36% of White smokers.

A study cited by the FDA evaluated the effects of banning menthols in seven Canadian provinces. It found that nearly 60% of those who smoked menthols before they were outlawed switched to non-mentholated cigarettes, and about 20% found another way to obtain them. But nearly 22% quit smoking. Based on that research, the FDA projected that a federal determent on menthols could lead 923,000 smokers to quit, including 230,000 African Americans, in the first 13 to 17 months after it takes effect. The agency also cited a 2011 study that predicted a menthol ban would avert some 633,000 deaths by 2050, including those of 237,000 African Americans.

The agency’s decision to eliminate the minty cigarettes from the market came in response to a longstanding petition from national public health organizations, including the African American Tobacco Control Leadership Council. The NAACP also supports the effort, stating April 29th: “For decades, the tobacco industry has been targeting African Americans and have contributed to the skyrocketing rates of heart disease, stroke and cancer across our community.”

Two dozen drug policy and criminal justice groups, including the American Civil Liberties Union and Drug Policy Alliance, countered with a letter raising concerns about the potential for such a law to fuel the black market and lead to further criminalization of Black and brown communities. As the letter notes, the enforcement of tobacco laws can lead to dangerous interactions between the police and people of color, as in the case of Eric Garner, who was killed by an NYPD officer in 2014 while being apprehended for selling loosies.

“Policies that amount to prohibition for adults will have serious racial justice implications,” the letter reads. “Such a ban will trigger criminal penalties, which will disproportionately impact people of color, as well as prioritize criminalization over public health and harm reduction.”

The FDA says its policy maneuver would focus on checking manufacturers, distributors, wholesalers, importers and retailers. “The FDA cannot and will not enforce against individual consumer possession or use of menthol cigarettes or any tobacco product,” the agency said in its release.

The legislation in Albany similarly seeks to avoid criminalizing possession, instead proposing a fine on retailers. In light of criticism, the bill's sponsors amended it to state that the police would not be able to use the possession of a menthol cigarette as a pretext to stop, question or search someone, including as a way to find the vendor who sold it to them. It also says the law should be enforced by the state Health Department rather than the police.

New York is the cigarette-smuggling capital of the country, thanks to high taxes on smokes, according to the Tax Foundation. After Massachusetts instituted a menthol ban last year, its cigarette sales dipped—as did tax revenue—but menthol sales spiked in neighboring states, suggesting that some people traveled elsewhere to get their preferred pack.

It’s unrealistic to say that police would not be involved in enforcing new regulations, especially given that those trafficking cigarettes may also be involved in other crimes, according to Richard Marianos, a law enforcement consultant and professor at Georgetown University who previously served with the U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.

“We're working extremely hard in the law enforcement profession to work on police reform,” said Marianos. “To place, in effect, a prohibition where we are going to create more policies to divide ourselves with the community is only going to draw a bigger gap.”

As of 2019, 11.9% of adults in New York City smoked tobacco, compared with 14% of all U.S. adults. Birkhead argues that the mounting state and local restrictions on smoking in New York—which include raising the legal age to purchase tobacco from 18 to 21, imposing high taxes and stopping tobacco sales in pharmacies—have been “chipping away at” the problem.

“Unintended consequences are something to be aware of and to try to be prepared for,” Birkhead said of his organization’s endorsement of policies prohibiting the commercial sale of tobacco. “But it's not something that should necessarily stop you from going ahead.”

Calls Grow In NY To Fully Outlaw Tobacco, As Federal Menthol Ban Looms


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## zcziggy (Apr 11, 2019)

Just one more reason to move south (like they don't have enough reasons already)


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## TonyBrooklyn (Jan 28, 2010)

_"There is no difference between communism and socialism, except in the means of achieving the same ultimate end: communism proposes to enslave men by force, socialism—by vote. It is merely the difference between murder and suicide."_ - Ayn Rand


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## Scap (Nov 27, 2012)

Everyone living in that gulag needs to learn how to be a pirate.


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## Rondo (Sep 9, 2015)




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## UBC03 (Nov 18, 2015)

There's no way in hell they'll give up all those tax dollars, just cause something might kill ya in the long run. They may tax the sh#t out of em but won't stop selling em

Think they're legalizing weed everywhere cause they want a bunch of stoners to be happy and safe. Nope... taxes

Gas kills the environment but it makes states alot of tax money. Electric cars help the environment. Yep you guessed it, they're starting to tax electric cars to cover the gas tax loss..

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk


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## Piper (Nov 30, 2008)

Agree about the taxes. 

A half dozen years ago, NYC tried to ban sugary drinks "for our own good." Never happened. "Poor people disproportionately consume sugary drinks and will be disproportionately affected!"proclaimed the self-styled protectors of the poor. Same argument will be made today if tobacco is banned. Thank goodness we "poor folk" need protection! 🤪


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## zcziggy (Apr 11, 2019)

They are already saying that about the ban on menthol cigarettes....


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## Humphrey's Ghost (Dec 27, 2016)

UBC03 said:


> There's no way in hell they'll give up all those tax dollars, just cause something might kill ya in the long run. They may tax the sh#t out of em but won't stop selling em
> 
> Think they're legalizing weed everywhere cause they want a bunch of stoners to be happy and safe. Nope... taxes
> 
> ...


You’re still thinking like a capitalist.
We don’t care if people have to eat dirt as long as they comply.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## zcziggy (Apr 11, 2019)

Humphrey's Ghost said:


> You’re still thinking like a capitalist.
> We don’t care if people have to eat dirt as long as they comply.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


And if they don't...there is always the gulags


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## TonyBrooklyn (Jan 28, 2010)

Humphrey's Ghost said:


> You’re still thinking like a capitalist.
> We don’t care if people have to eat dirt as long as they comply.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Funny part is you do not have to force them to comply.
Comply they will and willingly because they are all just Sheep.
Then there are the ones that can be bought.
For a carton of cigarettes'.
Just like in prison.


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## jmt8706 (Jul 19, 2019)

I didn't think about it last night when I posted, the tobacco shops in the surrounding states will get rich from the NY'ers that cross the line for their tobacco, if the ban happens.


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## TonyBrooklyn (Jan 28, 2010)

jmt8706 said:


> I didn't think about it last night when I posted, the tobacco shops in the surrounding states will get rich from the NY'ers that cross the line for their tobacco, if the ban happens.


It is called trickle down economics LOL!


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## CrustyCat (Feb 3, 2020)

Seems like a lot of tobacco companies are operating out of Pennsylvania. Are they a tobacco friendly state?


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## UBC03 (Nov 18, 2015)

CrustyCat said:


> Seems like a lot of tobacco companies are operating out of Pennsylvania. Are they a tobacco friendly state?


Not tobacco.. but cigar and pipe friendly. 

Cigs get taxed pretty good. But they haven't messed with cigars yet. 

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## Bird-Dog (Oct 16, 2009)

jmt8706 said:


> “It's aspirational,” said Dr. Gus Birkhead, who serves as secretary of the New York State Public Health Association and worked in the state Health Department for 27 years. “It's trying to lay out a vision that I think most people who work in public health would agree with. Tobacco remains the *leading cause of preventable death* and premature disease in our population, despite years of trying to combat it.”


Death cannot be prevented, merely postponed. You'd think someone who spent 27 years in the NY State Health Dept would know this.


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## Gummy Jones (Mar 30, 2017)

probably start selling packs of 20 joints at every gas station


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## Piper (Nov 30, 2008)

Gummy Jones said:


> probably start selling packs of 20 joints at every gas station


Gas stations are disappearing. Electric charging stations are starting to crop up!


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## Gummy Jones (Mar 30, 2017)

Piper said:


> Gas stations are disappearing. Electric charging stations are starting to crop up!


thanks for catching my mistake
seems i need some reeducation


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## zcziggy (Apr 11, 2019)

Piper said:


> Gas stations are disappearing. Electric charging stations are starting to crop up!


Man... I don't want to be unemployed just yet... 
But seriously...EV industry will have to clean up its act before they become mainstream (government subsidies, child labor, water contamination, etc). 
I do see a future where we have gas pumps and charging stations on the same location and we are already testing that concept.


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## Piper (Nov 30, 2008)

Gummy Jones said:


> thanks for catching my mistake
> seems i need some reeducation


😉


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## UBC03 (Nov 18, 2015)

Piper said:


> Gas stations are disappearing. Electric charging stations are starting to crop up!


Not around here. There's one restaurant that put out a charging station. If you eat there , it's open to use. 

I take my plug and an extension cord to work. I can usually get a full charge, unless someone important sees it and makes me unplug it(or guys unplug it themselves and not tell me, some jaggoffs think that's freakin hilarious) ...Luckily mine reverts to gas if I run outta free go go juice. 

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## zcziggy (Apr 11, 2019)

UBC03 said:


> Not around here. There's one restaurant that put out a charging station. If you eat there , it's open to use.
> 
> I take my plug and an extension cord to work. I can usually get a full charge, unless someone important sees it and makes me unplug it (*or guys unplug it themselves and not tell me, some jaggoffs think that's freakin hilarious *) ...Luckily mine reverts to gas if I run outta free go go juice.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk


😂 😂


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## CrustyCat (Feb 3, 2020)

Piper said:


> Gas stations are disappearing. Electric charging stations are starting to crop up!


I like my job working for a Panasonic making batteries for Tesla. Great company to work for, Panasonic that is. I wouldn't know about Tesla.


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## GunnyJ (Jun 22, 2018)

According to a NYT article from 20210718 New York has legalized marijuana and here's the hilarious part:



> Liz Krueger, the bill’s sponsor in the Senate, said people are legally allowed to smoke in public wherever smoking tobacco is legal. “As far as right now, the law passing today, if you can smoke tobacco there, you could smoke marijuana there,” she said on Tuesday.


So they legalize marijuana and allow people to smoke it wherever they can smoke tobacco at the same time there is action to make smoking tobacco illegal (in public).

In addition to all of the taxes governments will impose on both marijuana and tobacco (NY has the highest tobacco taxes in the U.S.), I'm pretty confident that the insurance industry will be against an all out tobacco ban since they make an insane amount of money on increased premiums from "tobacco smokers" (note that "tobacco smoker" is a person who consumes any type of tobacco, not just smoking). Imagine how much more money they will be able to take from people when the "Do you use marijuana?" question goes on their forms. They will lobby hard against a full ban.


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## zcziggy (Apr 11, 2019)

With the new proposed tax increase on cigarettes, premium cigars and pipe tobacco...they won't need to ban their use as they will be too expensive to buy.


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