# Nicotine in your blood or Urine???



## FriendlyFire (Jun 11, 2007)

I'm sorry I know this was discussed before but we rectently had this conversation at the place I smoke. Two guys where arguing that it takes at least a month and the other said a few days with drinking alot of water. I said Ill ask here. 
Did anyone here need to get clean for a blood or urine test? how long did you wait and how where the results???


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## mrreindeer (Sep 4, 2008)

I have also heard a month to get out of your system...this from our IVF doc who said it wasn't really an issue but that I would have had to stop smoking cigars a month prior to sperm donation to have it completely out.....knowing too late, I stopped about 2 weeks prior....Doc told us it wasn't anything to be concerned about.


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## Cypress (Jun 27, 2007)

Are you concerned for having nicotine in your blood or urine sample for work screening?


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## mrreindeer (Sep 4, 2008)

Cypress said:


> Are you concerned for having nicotine in your blood or urine sample for work screening?


I'd bet it's for insurance...


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## FriendlyFire (Jun 11, 2007)

I think they where discussing life insurence, I think one of the guys is a life insurence agaent.



Cypress said:


> Are you concerned for having nicotine in your blood or urine sample for work screening?


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## DBCcigar (Apr 24, 2008)

I have a friend that stopped smoking cigars for a week and drank a lot of water and he passed....


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## txraddoc (Jun 7, 2007)

Life insurance companies don't test for nicotine in urine or blood. They test for a byproduct called cotinine. The amount of time that nicotine is present in blood and urine is very short (short half life). The half life for cotinine is much longer and is detectable for at least a week after your last cigar.

So, I'd give it a good 7-10 days. I do not believe it requires an entire month to clear.


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## d_day (Aug 24, 2008)

txraddoc said:


> Life insurance companies don't test for nicotine in urine or blood. They test for a byproduct called cotinine. The amount of time that nicotine is present in blood and urine is very short (short half life). The half life for cotinine is much longer and is detectable for at least a week after your last cigar.
> 
> So, I'd give it a good 7-10 days. I do not believe it requires an entire month to clear.


 Yes, nicotine should be completely out of a person's system in 72 hours. It's those nasty byproducts that get you. It's much like screening for most other drugs; they screen for metabolytes rather than the drugs themselves.


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## BigCat (Sep 9, 2008)

Keep in mind though, that if you don't fess up to smoking cigars in your insurance application and it is determined that you smoke cigars when a claim is made, that could be grounds to void your policy. You would pay cheaper premiums, but you wouldn't actually get anything for those premiums when a claim is made. Just something to keep in mind.\

Edit: I just realized it was two other guys talking not you.


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## txraddoc (Jun 7, 2007)

BigCat said:


> Keep in mind though, that if you don't fess up to smoking cigars in your insurance application and it is determined that you smoke cigars when a claim is made, that could be grounds to void your policy. You would pay cheaper premiums, but you wouldn't actually get anything for those premiums when a claim is made. Just something to keep in mind.\
> 
> Edit: I just realized it was two other guys talking not you.


I believe this cause in the policy is good only for the first two years. Its called the contestability clause if I remember correctly. But I agree. It is best to be completely honest with the insurance company.


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## e-man (Jan 5, 2009)

The cotinine can only be detected in your blood for about 2 days, but that doesn't mean that your blood is clean. Your kidneys pull trace amounts of cotinine from your blood and sends it to your urine. That basically concentrates the cotinine from your entire body into your urine. Since your urine contains concentrated levels of cotinine, it can be detected for about a week longer than in blood.

If you're worried about concentrations of ANYTHING in your urine, then you should dilute your urine. Start at least 4 hours in advance. Don't eat or exercise to prevent new metabolites from being released. Drink a constant intake of WATER until you pee clear. Then take a Vit B Complex to add color back to your urine. When the color returns, you're good to go. Keep drinking water until your test, and go to the bathroom regularly to keep toxins from building up.

In theory, if you double the water content of your urine, then you just cut your detectable levels in half. If you drink water until you pee clear, then your urine will virtually be pure water. Of course, they CAN test for a watered down sample, as other trace chemicals will also be diluted. Ususally not a problem unless you're taking a court ordered test, or trying to get a high dollar policy. If nothing else, you can just say you drank a big Gulp earlier that day, and schedule a new appointment few days later to buy more time.

He could also buy clean synthetic urine that comes with a heating pack and passes all tests. It's very expensive and may not be legal in your state.

Like others have stated. The insurance company may require an autopsy before payment of death benefits. If you mis-represent your status as non-tobacco, then they can reduce benefits if they find it in your tox-screen.


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## RicoPuro (Sep 24, 2008)

txraddoc said:


> Life insurance companies don't test for nicotine in urine or blood. They test for a byproduct called cotinine. The amount of time that nicotine is present in blood and urine is very short (short half life). The half life for cotinine is much longer and is detectable for at least a week after your last cigar.
> 
> So, I'd give it a good *7-10 days*. I do not believe it requires an entire month to clear.


That's about right. My financial planner adviced no cigars for 7-10 days prior to the insurance physical/blood draw.


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## FriendlyFire (Jun 11, 2007)

Yeah I got my policies all se up. 



BigCat said:


> Keep in mind though, that if you don't fess up to smoking cigars in your insurance application and it is determined that you smoke cigars when a claim is made, that could be grounds to void your policy. You would pay cheaper premiums, but you wouldn't actually get anything for those premiums when a claim is made. Just something to keep in mind.\
> 
> Edit: I just realized it was two other guys talking not you.


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## Frinkiac7 (Dec 12, 2008)

This is life insurance or regular health insurance?


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## mrreindeer (Sep 4, 2008)

e-man said:


> He could also buy clean synthetic urine that comes with a heating pack and passes all tests. It's very expensive and may not be legal in your state.


:shock: That's crazy! And wow...Eric, sounds like you've done a ton of research on this topic! ....and I appreciate the info! :tu



Frinkiac7 said:


> This is life insurance or regular health insurance?


Life insurance.


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## Augie754 (Jul 28, 2004)

txraddoc said:


> I believe this cause in the policy is good only for the first two years. Its called the contestability clause if I remember correctly. But I agree. It is best to be completely honest with the insurance company.


This is correct, after 2 years they have to pay as long as they have a death cert. Anything to deny payment has to be in the first 2 years. (This is at least in most states, including Ohio where I used to have a life insurance license). If you die in the first 2 years and they find out, most would just give you a reduced amount based on what you were paying at tobacco rates. But it can be risky.

I didn't have a smoke for 3 weeks and passed easily, but I was playing it safe. I believe 7-10 days would be enough based on how much you smoke.


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## e-man (Jan 5, 2009)

mrreindeer said:


> :shock: That's crazy! And wow...Eric, sounds like you've done a ton of research on this topic! ....and I appreciate the info! :tu


 I can't say that all this knowledge is a result of my cigar smoking. Let's just say I used to run with a wild crowd. I did attend CU Boulder for 5 years, so you're bound to pick up some unique knowledge along the way. Lots of friends (myself included) had some employment scares when it was time to graduate and join the REAL world.

I also did a lot of IT work for the HR department at an industrial plant that did random tests. It's interesting to see the topic from both sides. Most random test are imposed to limit a company's liability. They certainly don't implement expensive testing programs for their own piece of mind. They know that some tests will get spoofed, but they really have no interest in firing and re-training half of their work force.

Even the insurance companies don't want to spend a lot on testing. They use a cheap chemical test that is easy to spoof, even though they have mass spectrometers that analyze at the molecular level and detect much smaller concentrations. If the chemical test turns out positive, then they spend the money on a full analysis, just to make sure it wasn't a false positive.

I can tell you that the in-home test is much more lax than going to a certified testing facility. When I called to arrange a home test, the guy advised me to "keep well hydrated" before the test, by drinking 2-3 glasses of water per hour, for at least four hours. He filled in the temperature and other urine info before he even had me fill the cup. He even told me to fill and seal the specimen vials, then rinse them off myself before leaving the bathroom. No colored water in the toilet. No inspection of the toilet before flushing. No listening outside the door. He just waited downstairs while I did it. He even took my blood pressure several times and wrote down the lowest reading. Basically he told me that he was a paramedic, and that contracting to insurance companies was MUCH better than ambulance work.

To contrast, an old roommate of mine got a DUI and had court ordered testing. He was "observed" during the entire process, and got a strike against him on the first test for having too dilute of a sample. Someone pointed him to a prosthetic ***** and freeze dried "clean" urine that he could use to get away with anything he wanted.


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