# At the current rate cigars will be illegal everywhere except a person's house



## phillyforreally

A park I've been going to for years all of a sudden has new signs all over the place saying any tobacco use will be fined, so with a flick of a pen, they just wiped out all history and memories I have of this place when I was younger with the cigars over there..real nice right? This is why I have my own cigar room where they can't get to me. Nothing aristocratic, I turned an outside patio (10 x 10) into a small room with some brick walls, put 2 external exhaust vents in there and a few other things, and im good to go. I can't be getting into it with people outside, defending myself like a victim and looking for acceptance..this whole story with the legislation, the looks, the attitudes is making me sick..how did we get to this point?


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## Tobias Lutz

phillyforreally said:


> This is why I have my own cigar room where they can't get to me. Nothing aristocratic, I turned an outside patio (10 x 10) into a small room with some brick walls, put 2 external exhaust vents in there and a few other things, and im good to go.


Sounds like a pretty nice solution to me :smoke:


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## Gdaddy

Nanny State.

You'd better not be drinking a 16oz. soda or eating any potato chips with trans fats either. Mayor Bloomberg will take you down.

The one that I really don't understand is at a bar where designated smoking IS allowed but no pipes or cigars. Apparently cigarette smoke stinks better than pipes and cigars??? If smoking is allowed then all smoking should be allowed. They're discriminating against a small segment of the group. This is obviously not based on a health decision.

I was at an outside cigar friendly bar sitting next to three people who were all smoking cigarettes when I lit up a cigar they complained. Management ruled in my favor. However, they still thought their stink was better than my stink!!


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## TCBSmokes

Gdaddy said:


> Nanny State.
> 
> I was at an outside cigar friendly bar sitting next to three people who were all smoking cigarettes when I lit up a cigar they complained. Management ruled in my favor. However, they still thought their stink was better than my stink!!


Wow, three of them, and at a cigar bar yet. That's pretty funny. I was once in a cigar bar in Stamford, CT watching a band with a friend, and he told me the girl next to him complained about his cigar...to which he replied, "You know you're in a cigar bar don't you?", and kept on puffin'. That was in the late 80's. I guess she went on to law school, and has pushed the issue further since. Now here we are. TCB.


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## 455 Punch

Fun experiments, but not that I have the patience or time:
-bring multiple sizes with you and start smoking a cigarillo and keep increasing the cigar size over your stay and see how far you can get, then try to have them explain their logic of why they stopped you at a certain length or ring gauge
-wrap a Churchill in cigarette paper and light 'er up. What's the difference, same color. Have a cork colored end on it to be more authentic.
-take a dry as heck cigar and stand it up in the ashtray and light it like incense, but don't actually smoke it (you're not smoking a cigar). Hopefully it will burn on its own?


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## momo439

Your comment poked mu curiosity and I decided to read the Canadian Tobacco Act. You guys are still lucky and should definitely fight to maintain the little rights you still have. If the Act is applied properly here, I'm not allowed to gift tobacco or tobacco related product like cigar cutter or a humidor to a friend. Gee, for what I could understand, I can't even wear garment that depicts a tobacco brand! Hope the US will maintain your rights because here, they are definitely repressed.


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## Carpenter69

Bloomberg is such an asshole. My cousin owns a pizzeria in Brooklyn. Bloomberg and his cronies came in after passing 16 oz. soda act. He says to his friend" I've been dreamin' about this place all week,I gonna get 3 slices." To which Randy my cousins says" sorry Mr. Bloomberg but I can only sell you 1. I don't want you getting fat. To which Bloomberg exploded into a string of profanity aimed at Randy. Randy replied please leave, your upsetting my regular customers. I wouldn't have believed it, but it was all caught on CCTV with sound and all.


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## Gdaddy

Carpenter69 said:


> Bloomberg is such an asshole. My cousin owns a pizzeria in Brooklyn. Bloomberg and his cronies came in after passing 16 oz. soda act. He says to his friend" I've been dreamin' about this place all week,I gonna get 3 slices." To which Randy my cousins says" sorry Mr. Bloomberg but I can only sell you 1. I don't want you getting fat. To which Bloomberg exploded into a string of profanity aimed at Randy. Randy replied please leave, your upsetting my regular customers. I wouldn't have believed it, but it was all caught on CCTV with sound and all.


That brings up an interesting point. Bloombergs laws don't apply to him. He walks around with armed body guards packing guns...yet guns are against the law. Police on the highways don't abide by the speed limit. They go as fast as they want.

There are many examples of people who are above the law because they are special unlike the average dumb citizen.

Please tell Randy he did good!


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## Carpenter69

Gdaddy said:


> That brings up an interesting point. Bloombergs laws don't apply to him. He walks around with armed body guards packing guns...yet guns are against the law. Police on the highways don't abide by the speed limit. They go as fast as they want.
> 
> There are many examples of people who are above the law because they are special unlike the average dumb citizen.
> 
> Please tell Randy he did good!


Will do!


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## 455 Punch

Maybe someday it might be illegal to even smoke in your own home...if someone deems it affects health care costs under the Affordable Care Act (for the smoker AND those in the insured household exposed to second hand smoke)! Enjoy what you can while you can and vote smart...


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## Hermit

Didja see who replaced Bloomie?
Out of the fryin' pan, into the fire. :smokin:


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## Bruck

455 Punch said:


> Maybe someday it might be illegal to even smoke in your own home...if someone deems it affects health care costs under the Affordable Care Act (for the smoker AND those in the insured household exposed to second hand smoke)! Enjoy what you can while you can and vote smart...


Bingo! But only select non-healthy behaviors will be regulated.


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## beercritic

Local city park has "No Smoking" signs all over the place. Tons of cigarettes get smoked & the cops do nothing. Life in KY.


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## Gigmaster

I found a cure for that. If cigarette smokers cause me not be able to smoke my pipe, or cigars, I just stand by their table and break wind a few times. It works especially well after you've eaten a few pickled boiled eggs and a couple of beers. They always end up leaving, and I can enjoy my pipe in peace....once the air clears a bit......



Gdaddy said:


> Nanny State.
> 
> You'd better not be drinking a 16oz. soda or eating any potato chips with trans fats either. Mayor Bloomberg will take you down.
> 
> The one that I really don't understand is at a bar where designated smoking IS allowed but no pipes or cigars. Apparently cigarette smoke stinks better than pipes and cigars??? If smoking is allowed then all smoking should be allowed. They're discriminating against a small segment of the group. This is obviously not based on a health decision.
> 
> I was at an outside cigar friendly bar sitting next to three people who were all smoking cigarettes when I lit up a cigar they complained. Management ruled in my favor. However, they still thought their stink was better than my stink!!


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## vuttomundo

I think its going much further than that. It looks like a total prohibition on tobacco is being phased in. More and more bans. Flavoring bans, bans on internet tobacco sales, bans on walk in humidors, bans on just seeing the tobacco on display, bans on smoking in cigar shops. Any restrictions on cigarettes that people like Bloomberg are salivating over will spread to cigars and all other tobacco products. The plain packaging for cigarettes in Canada and parts of Europe with the graphic pictures will soon spread to the US and spread to cigars. Theyre banning the sale of tobacco in pharmacies in some cities. Soon theyre gonna ban it in supermarkets, gas stations and more places to protect the kids. Soon all tobacco products are going to be sold in licensed tobacco only stores with a bouncer outside forced to make sure no one under 18 could even enter let alone buy anything. When you go inside you wont be able to see the tobacco or see any logos. Then thats going to be phased out banning the sale of tobacco outright. Then theyre gonna make it illegal to grow your own tobacco and put you in jail for growing it like they did with marijuana. 25 years ago when they started banning smoking on airplanes, it was inconceivable that the smoking bans would spread to bars or even outside like in NYC. You cant smoke anywhere now. Not in bars, not in restaurants. Now theres smoking bans on college campuses outside, smoking bans in hospital parking lots, smoking bans on sidewalks, smoking bans on beaches, smoking bans in your car and even peoples own apartments cause of the hysteria over 2nd hand smoke. The only place you will be able to smoke will be in designated smoking areas outside where non smokers arent even visible. NYC is going to ban the sale of tobacco products to anyone under 21 rather than 18. Now theres hysteria over 3rd hand smoke. Anyone smelling like tobacco will soon be fined and jailed as a weapon of mass destruction. The way things are going, theres going to come a time when you wont even be able to possess tobacco. It will be treated like cocaine and heroin.


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## Hermit

vuttomundo said:


> I think its going much further than that. It looks like a total prohibition on tobacco is being phased in.


They couldn't get an outright ban, but they'll get there.
We are being attacked though the "healthcare" plan.
Are you ready to be charged double or more, just like the three pack a day smoker?
Other "risky" behavior is not being punished; we're being singled out.

I have enough tobacco and cigars to last me, without 
ever buying any more, but can I afford to smoke it? :yell:


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## Carpenter69

vuttomundo said:


> I think its going much further than that. It looks like a total prohibition on tobacco is being phased in. More and more bans. Flavoring bans, bans on internet tobacco sales, bans on walk in humidors, bans on just seeing the tobacco on display, bans on smoking in cigar shops. Any restrictions on cigarettes that people like Bloomberg are salivating over will spread to cigars and all other tobacco products. The plain packaging for cigarettes in Canada and parts of Europe with the graphic pictures will soon spread to the US and spread to cigars. Theyre banning the sale of tobacco in pharmacies in some cities. Soon theyre gonna ban it in supermarkets, gas stations and more places to protect the kids. Soon all tobacco products are going to be sold in licensed tobacco only stores with a bouncer outside forced to make sure no one under 18 could even enter let alone buy anything. When you go inside you wont be able to see the tobacco or see any logos. Then thats going to be phased out banning the sale of tobacco outright. Then theyre gonna make it illegal to grow your own tobacco and put you in jail for growing it like they did with marijuana. 25 years ago when they started banning smoking on airplanes, it was inconceivable that the smoking bans would spread to bars or even outside like in NYC. You cant smoke anywhere now. Not in bars, not in restaurants. Now theres smoking bans on college campuses outside, smoking bans in hospital parking lots, smoking bans on sidewalks, smoking bans on beaches, smoking bans in your car and even peoples own apartments cause of the hysteria over 2nd hand smoke. The only place you will be able to smoke will be in designated smoking areas outside where non smokers arent even visible. NYC is going to ban the sale of tobacco products to anyone under 21 rather than 18. Now theres hysteria over 3rd hand smoke. Anyone smelling like tobacco will soon be fined and jailed as a weapon of mass destruction. The way things are going, theres going to come a time when you wont even be able to possess tobacco. It will be treated like cocaine and heroin.


I have a specific jacket I wear for work. I smoke a cigar to and from work. A lady the other day in a gas station said, " it reeks of cigar smoke in here." I turned and said, " I know, ain't I treat." She didn't know whether to [email protected] or go blind. Have no fear, they'll still let you drink until you can't walk then you can get in your 2 ton car and drive home and kill a whole family. That's ok though, because politicians love there booze.


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## NasierK

455 Punch said:


> Maybe someday it might be illegal to even smoke in your own home...if someone deems it affects health care costs under the Affordable Care Act (for the smoker AND those in the insured household exposed to second hand smoke)! *Enjoy what you can while you can and vote smart*...


Better yet, don't vote at all. Voting is what keeps the whole abomination going.

Personally I'm not too worried they'll ban tobacco completely (too much tax revenues coming in).


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## srfulton

You have to vote and tell these guys that you want to keep your rights to choose. PERIOD Sorry but Dems want to make everyone suffer. By making everyone happy that you and I cant smoke. But whoever you vote for should tell you his or her ideals about personal rights. I have smoked for 40 years. Still kicking. Started with Lucky Striks un filtered. Cigars today. Wish me luck!


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## LGHT

FYI I live in a small area in CA and each complex has it's own "community" which are covered by an HOA. The HOA in my area is trying to ban any and all smoking on the patios because the smoke can drift into neighbors windows or patios. A complaint was filled by a new mother who happens to live above a retired chain smoker. As a result she's complaining that his 2nd hand smoke is getting into her unit and may cause problems with her infant. Since 95% of the entire community empathizes for her and doesn't smoke it will more than likely pass and I will not even be allowed to smoke on my own patio!!

This on top of not being able to smoke in ANY public park, shopping center, mall, strip mall, or restaurant in the entire city.


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## NasierK

LGHT said:


> FYI I live in a small area in CA and each complex has it's own "community" which are covered by an HOA. The HOA in my area is trying to ban any and all smoking on the patios because the smoke can drift into neighbors windows or patios. A complaint was filled by a new mother who happens to live above a retired chain smoker. As a result she's complaining that his 2nd hand smoke is getting into her unit and may cause problems with her infant. Since 95% of the entire community empathizes for her and doesn't smoke it will more than likely pass and I will not even be allowed to smoke on my own patio!!
> 
> This on top of not being able to smoke in ANY public park, shopping center, mall, strip mall, or restaurant in the entire city.


That is insane! So I guess they don't BBQ themselves (or allow any BBQ activity) in the area either?

Doesn't most windows come with this special feature now a days that allows you to close them?


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## Gigmaster

OK. I guess I finally got burned by the issue, myself. I ran out of Gaw Hogg Louisiana Perique Flake and it takes a few days for a new order to get there, so I went to the local Ingle's Grocery Store to pick up a box of Prince Albert to hold me until the good stuff gets here. I needed some eggs, also, so it wasn't a wasted trip. All the tobacco was locked up behind a glass counter, and it was very difficult to find the PA. When I did, I had to go find someone and ask them to get me some tobacco. Then they said I could not take it through the store with me, and had to pick it up at the automated check-out person's station. I got my eggs, and went to get my PA, and was told I could only check out at the automatic check out next to the station, and she had to watch me check out.. That was the final straw. I told them where they could put their tobacco (back behind the counter...of course...) and complained to the manager about being treated with so much disrespect just for a pouch of pipe tobacco. He said it was State law, so there will be some elected officials feeling my wrath, especially come next election. Enough is enough. I'll just keep buying it online, where they appreciate my business. I have some Carter Hall stashed somewhere. That will hold me until my beloved LA Flake gets here. 

I think it's about time we started fighting back. The people that pass these laws, and support them have got to go. Email, and call your elected officials and let them know we're not going to accept this any more, and while you're at it, ask them why it is easier to buy dope than a pouch of perfectly legal pipe tobacco. The War on Drugs....Bah! Humbug! Either win it, or end it.


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## LGHT

NasierK said:


> That is insane! So I guess they don't BBQ themselves (or allow any BBQ activity) in the area either?
> 
> Doesn't most windows come with this special feature now a days that allows you to close them?


haha funny you mention BBQ. I BBQ a lot! I mean I'm a master judge, competitor and I teach classes. When I first moved in I had more than 1 concerned neighbor think my patio was on fire. A few weeks later the FD is banging on my door saying they got a report of a fire. The new right away it was BBQ, but I got a warning anyway because coal / wood burning devices are banned in the city. So I pick up a Green Mountain Grill that is technically a grill that uses wood pellets for fuel and sure enough 2-3 time later I get a complaint from my HOA saying I need to have a fan to disburse the smoke generated out away from my patio. It's not a big deal since I'm on the top floor. If my old lady wasn't in love with this city I would have moved a long time ago.


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## FireRunner

Carpenter69 said:


> Bloomberg is such an asshole. My cousin owns a pizzeria in Brooklyn. Bloomberg and his cronies came in after passing 16 oz. soda act. He says to his friend" I've been dreamin' about this place all week,I gonna get 3 slices." To which Randy my cousins says" sorry Mr. Bloomberg but I can only sell you 1. I don't want you getting fat. To which Bloomberg exploded into a string of profanity aimed at Randy. Randy replied please leave, your upsetting my regular customers. I wouldn't have believed it, but it was all caught on CCTV with sound and all.


If that was caught on CCTV I would assume it would be up on YouTube or some media.


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## FireRunner

LGHT said:


> FYI I live in a small area in CA and each complex has it's own "community" which are covered by an HOA. The HOA in my area is trying to ban any and all smoking on the patios because the smoke can drift into neighbors windows or patios. A complaint was filled by a new mother who happens to live above a retired chain smoker. As a result she's complaining that his 2nd hand smoke is getting into her unit and may cause problems with her infant. Since 95% of the entire community empathizes for her and doesn't smoke it will more than likely pass and I will not even be allowed to smoke on my own patio!!
> 
> This on top of not being able to smoke in ANY public park, shopping center, mall, strip mall, or restaurant in the entire city.


There's two sides to that story.

1. The man has a right to smoke in his apartment.
2. The woman has a right to not smell or inhale smoke.

Who's correct? Even as a cigar smoker I would side with the woman. I don't smoke in my house or my office for a reason - it stinks. If I had to smell cigarette smoke 24/7 in my own home I would complain also. And, if I had a baby (which I do) in that apartment I would really complain. Then again if I'm the man why is it my fault the smoke is going through apartments? The problem is the HOA allows smoking in the apartment complex when it shouldn't because all apartments and condos share ventilation systems.

Both parties have rights.


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## Fuzzy

If cigars are outlawed, only outlaws will have cigars. Sound familiar? As I see it, *ALL* personal freedoms have dwindled since the USA has become so politically correct.


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## LGHT

FireRunner said:


> There's two sides to that story.
> 
> 1. The man has a right to smoke in his apartment.
> 2. The woman has a right to not smell or inhale smoke.
> 
> Who's correct? Even as a cigar smoker I would side with the woman. I don't smoke in my house or my office for a reason - it stinks. If I had to smell cigarette smoke 24/7 in my own home I would complain also. And, if I had a baby (which I do) in that apartment I would really complain. Then again if I'm the man why is it my fault the smoke is going through apartments? The problem is the HOA allows smoking in the apartment complex when it shouldn't because all apartments and condos share ventilation systems.
> 
> Both parties have rights.


I do agree with the woman, but essentially they are siding with 1 person and making a rule that applies to the entire complex of over 300 units. Even further the only problem in her situation is she's above someone who smokes beneath her. I'm on the top and in a corner unit so my smoking effects no one whatsoever, yet I'm also included in the rule???? How can you support her rights without taking away mine is the key.


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## Hiroshiro

Southern California is heading towards banning smoking completely. With two cities down here with complete bans even in your home and in Pasadena probably passing the smoking ban What should we do?


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## thechasm442

LGHT said:


> FYI I live in a small area in CA and each complex has it's own "community" which are covered by an HOA. The HOA in my area is trying to ban any and all smoking on the patios because the smoke can drift into neighbors windows or patios. A complaint was filled by a new mother who happens to live above a retired chain smoker. As a result she's complaining that his 2nd hand smoke is getting into her unit and may cause problems with her infant. Since 95% of the entire community empathizes for her and doesn't smoke it will more than likely pass and I will not even be allowed to smoke on my own patio!!
> 
> This on top of not being able to smoke in ANY public park, shopping center, mall, strip mall, or restaurant in the entire city.


I would set out a lawn chair in the closest approved smoking area to her nearest open windows and smoke EVERYTHING there just to be an ass.


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## defetis

Gigmaster said:


> I found a cure for that. If cigarette smokers cause me not be able to smoke my pipe, or cigars, I just stand by their table and *break wind* a few times. It works especially well after you've eaten a few pickled boiled eggs and a couple of beers. They always end up leaving, and I can enjoy my pipe in peace....once the air clears a bit......


good to see others representing the name well:drinking::clap2:


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## Just1ce

Americans used to cherish personal freedom and hated having people above them tell them what to do. Now its just expected.

I wasn't a smoker when VA passed the restaurant smoking ban. I still don't understand how that makes any sense at all. It should be up to the business and if someone doesn't like that a restaurant has a smoking section, then they are free to take their money elsewhere.

When you can make the case that something infringes on someone else's rights, you can ban anything (regardless of whether or not the case actually has any merit). Thankfully I think we are very far off from an outright ban on cigars, but there are plenty of people out there that would like nothing better than to make all tobacco products illegal. I always hated that people generally accept the slippery slope argument as logical fallacy, but for the most part imho it is not fallacy at all - it is human nature in action. Once you accept the logic that something should be a certain way, if there is a way to apply that logic further to other things then it will be done. It usually goes something like "Well we already do this, so why not this?" It's outright surprising how quickly it can occur sometimes as well. I could make some really good examples but that would be delving a little too far into politics so I digress.

On a side note, I always love watching old movies with gentlemen smoking cigars/pipes/cigarettes in public buildings and no one really says anything. It was just commonplace. Not to say I wouldn't be respectful of those around me with my cigar. I wouldn't cozy up to a restaurant table next to a family of 8 and puff away on my cigar nonstop, but to ban it from establishments entirely is just ridiculous. It seems to me that there should be an easy way to find balance, but people in power like the easy way of just banning things.


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## Tobias Lutz

Just1ce said:


> I wasn't a smoker when VA passed the n, then they are free to take their money elsewhere.restaurant smoking ban. I still don't understand how that makes any sense at all. It should be up to the business and if someone doesn't like that a restaurant has a smoking section.


While on one level I agree with you, I think it can open the door to a slippery slope. To allow for all decisions like this to be worked out by the power of personal spending is in a way attuned to a popular democracy which is not entirely in line with the democratic REPUBLIC which our nation was founded as. _Without attempting to present civil rights as they pertain to race as carrying equal moral weight to smoker's rights_, I would offer this analogy: If the popular majority of citizens supported racial segregation, they could in theory attempt a referendum to enact it. Fortunately, we have a system that allows the judiciary to "veto" popular opinion when it is deemed detrimental to society (i.e. contradictory to constitutional rights). To allow the market to solely dictate something like a smoking ban would be like allowing a public referendum to decide the same thing without a balancing voice for the sake of societal interest. Mind you, I'm not taking a side either way as to whether the government should ban public smoking, but I think it is important to decide as a society that public whim (in the form of a referendum or where dollars are spent) should not be the final say in these matters. IMO the final determinant should be constitutional interpretation deciding whether or not inherent rights are being violated or upheld. Not being a constitutional scholar, I won't presume to declare where public smoking fits into that model.


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## Gdaddy

Tobias Lutz said:


> While on one level I agree with you, I think it can open the door to a slippery slope. To allow for all decisions like this to be worked out by the power of personal spending is in a way attuned to a popular democracy which is not entirely in line with the democratic REPUBLIC which our nation was founded as. _Without attempting to present civil rights as they pertain to race as carrying equal moral weight to smoker's rights_, I would offer this analogy: If the popular majority of citizens supported racial segregation, they could in theory attempt a referendum to enact it. Fortunately, we have a system that allows the judiciary to "veto" popular opinion when it is deemed detrimental to society (i.e. contradictory to constitutional rights). To allow the market to solely dictate something like a smoking ban would be like allowing a public referendum to decide the same thing without a balancing voice for the sake of societal interest. Mind you, I'm not taking a side either way as to whether the government should ban public smoking, but I think it is important to decide as a society that public whim (in the form of a referendum or where dollars are spent) should not be the final say in these matters. IMO the final determinant should be constitutional interpretation deciding whether or not inherent rights are being violated or upheld. Not being a constitutional scholar, I won't presume to declare where public smoking fits into that model.


I don't see anyone being denied their constitutional rights by having a smoking section. The restaurant that offers smoking is not saying..."only smokers are allowed". They are saying we offer the freedom to smoke here so if you don't like a smoking environment then you may want to go elsewhere. There is no denying entry to the establishment like there would be with racial segregation. Everyone is welcome so I really don't see the need for the government to stick their nose in there to regulate on such matters. Let the free market determine the type of customer this establishment will attract. All races, religions and genders are welcome so no constitutional rights are denied.

The 'slippery slope' could be the constant erosion of our freedom by too much government. When people like Bloomberg want to dictate what's best for us and you can no longer drink a 16 oz smoothie we've got a real problem. Not implying that all government programs are bad but when we no longer think for ourselves and become more and more dependent on the government it's not what the original design of government was meant to be. Every time a new law is written we chip away at our freedom.


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## Tobias Lutz

Gdaddy said:


> I don't see anyone being denied their constitutional rights by having a smoking section.


I agree, but many would say they don't see anyone being denied their constitutional rights by not being allowed to smoke in public either. The question is, "is smoking in public" a "right"?


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## TonyBrooklyn

Fuzzy said:


> If cigars are outlawed, only outlaws will have cigars. Sound familiar? As I see it, *ALL* personal freedoms have dwindled since the USA has become so politically correct.


_THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
For this reason i shall remain an outlaw be it Cigars Guns or whatever is the pick of the day for the Anti Whatever Agenda Zealots!
_


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## esquire47

But if the government doesn't tell you what you can do and where, like allowing people who entered onto 'your' property freely to smoke or not smoke, WHO WOULD BUILD THE ROADS?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!


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## Gdaddy

Tobias Lutz said:


> I agree, but many would say they don't see anyone being denied their constitutional rights by not being allowed to smoke in public either. The question is, "is smoking in public" a "right"?


Anything that reaches across the divide and affects another person should be stopped. By smoking you would then be infringing on my rights to clean air. Nothing irritates me more than being at the beach and have some kids playing loud rap music. I have a right to NOT hear it. However, if I went into a night club and rap was being played then that is the owners right to play that music. I shouldn't go tell him to shut it off. If I don't like it I can go else where. In the same way don't walk into a smoking bar and demand everyone stop smoking. Go elsewhere.


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## mi000ke

Stay active my brothers

www(dot)cigarrights(dot)org 

(not allowed to post the actual link yet)


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## Carpenter69

Gdaddy said:


> I don't see anyone being denied their constitutional rights by having a smoking section. The restaurant that offers smoking is not saying..."only smokers are allowed". They are saying we offer the freedom to smoke here so if you don't like a smoking environment then you may want to go elsewhere. There is no denying entry to the establishment like there would be with racial segregation. Everyone is welcome so I really don't see the need for the government to stick their nose in there to regulate on such matters. Let the free market determine the type of customer this establishment will attract. All races, religions and genders are welcome so no constitutional rights are denied.
> 
> The 'slippery slope' could be the constant erosion of our freedom by too much government. When people like Bloomberg want to dictate what's best for us and you can no longer drink a 16 oz smoothie we've got a real problem. Not implying that all government programs are bad but when we no longer think for ourselves and become more and more dependent on the government it's not what the original design of government was meant to be. Every time a new law is written we chip away at our freedom.


I couldn't agree with you more. This is why for every new law that's jammed down my throat by some dipshit in D.C. I try and break 2. I've been cutting all the tags off my mattress', recording tv shows without express written consent and so on. Oh yeah, I'm an outlaw!

In all seriousness, gov't has just gotten too big. It's tailored for the wealthy, because money talks and bullshit walks. If you want some laws proposed in your favor, teach your children writing skills. This way they can grow up to be lobbyists and write our laws. I mean, c'mon you don't think the assholes we elect are effected by smoking laws, do you. Not to name drop, but I've met NY gov. Mario Cuomo. Nice guy, would screw his own mother for a dime, but nice guy. We also have another fine politician in my area, Vincent Liebell. This cockknocker robbed the state of Ny out of millions of dollars so he could buy coke to do with his friends. Nice guy right. It gets better. He gets caught, puts in his retirement papers exactly 1 month before this goes public. Why 1 month you ask, because that's the amount of time it takes to approve a state pension. Which, is not being revoked. Oh, and he used an attorney to defend him that was a culprit in the bilking of NYS. I could go on for days. But you don't care.lol.
As Sam Elliott said in the movie " We were soldiers once", gentleman, prepare to defend yourselves. Another words, buy guns, lotsa guns. Teach your family how to use them properly and safely. Good luck and god speed to you all.


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