# B&M's selling Cubans under the table...



## hoax (Aug 7, 2007)

My coworker just gave me a Vegas Robaina that he purchased at a local B&M for $35 a stick. Hmmmm.. if it's real it means that this B&M's is selling Cubans under the table. Seems a little odd for a store to take the risk. But at $20 per stick mark up they would be making some serious tax free profit.

Without naming names (of course), do you guys know of B&M's in the USA selling Cubans? I'm just wondering how common this is.


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## M1903A1 (Jun 7, 2006)

I don't buy it. A store that did that, and got caught, would be in VERY big trouble. Probably a sure route to a future "for rent" sign in the window.

Early on, I bought what turned out to be fauxhibas from a dive of a B&M in my old hometown. I think they had no clue that they were selling bogus sticks (openly, right in the humidor), but after that, I decided that they probably didn't know squat about any of their product, and I never patronized them again. (Oh...catching a flying tobacco beetle in midair didn't improve my opinion either!)

Now, do I think some of these B&M employees enjoy ISOMs _on their own_? Certainly.


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## icehog3 (Feb 20, 2005)

M1903A1 said:


> Now, do I think some of these B&M employees enjoy ISOMs _on their own_? Certainly.


I know of some B&M employees who get their forbidden fruit right from the MoB!


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## 68TriShield (May 15, 2006)

A store near me had them under the table.(fugazi of course)


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## Addiction (May 8, 2007)

Actually I ran into a store while on an trip with a set up like this. I went in on a Thursday night looking for my first Cohiba (having no idea at the time those things aren't REAL cohbas) and while I was fondling the red dot selection I was asked if I wanted the real thing. If so there would be a guy all in the lounge all day tomorrow selling them. I stopped by there on my way to the airport that Friday and sure enough there was a guy selling "Cubans." I was too new so I have no idea if they were real or not, but there were at least 12 people in a loose line waiting to buy them.


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## SmokinApe (Jun 20, 2007)

I love when the B&M guy starts to say his Macanudo's or Perdomo's are better then any cuban. I have been very put off by most B&M's, there are a few decent ones but for the most part I am tired of hearing that mold is plume, misreprentations about blends and how cigar X has magic tobacco etc...


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## jmcrawf1 (May 2, 2007)

I think this is where the 95% of cuban cigars in the US are fake statistic comes from :2 B&M's under counter shelves


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## Sandman (Mar 26, 2006)

SmokinApe said:


> I love when the B&M guy starts to say his Macanudo's or Perdomo's are better then any cuban.


This drives me nuts when I hear this! I have heard this many times by the way.


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## Cadillac (Feb 28, 2007)

J.S. did a little video on this on the CA website. Check it out.


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## chippewastud79 (Sep 18, 2007)

I think I am going to start doing that for $35 a piece too :tu


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## GoodFella (Nov 3, 2007)

i have seen this at two shops so far. bot i am not sure how real they were. judging by some of the fakes i had seen in that store that people were smoking, i would not tuch them. :hn


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## Big Dawg (Sep 1, 2006)

SmokinApe said:


> ... I am tired of hearing that mold is plume...


That's funny because I was at a well established B&M in my town a few months ago and let the young man who was working the register know that there was a box of cigars that had mold. He quickly fired back that what I was looking at was plume. After a couple of chuckles I told him that no way was that plume. I let it end at that as he was desperate not to admit that mold was present. Hell, the shop (and this young man) would have gained much more of my respect if they just admitted it (which really wasn't a big deal since it was just a few cigars in one box). However, to try and dupe a person who knows better just isn't good business. Now whenever I see this guy in the shop (which I don't frequent that much), I don't take anything he sais seriously.


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## hotreds (Dec 4, 2007)

As long as they offered me Cohibos I know I'd have the real thing!


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## M1903A1 (Jun 7, 2006)

icehog3 said:


> I know of some B&M employees who get their forbidden fruit right from the MoB!


Yes...I seem to remember that! :r :ss


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## Fistville (Mar 26, 2007)

I've seen them real at some B&Ms. It just seems foolish to me. The risk aside, anyone in the know has their own way to get them, they would never risk an under the table possibly fake transaction for a higher premium than online vendors. The only potential buyers are the totally uninformed crowd who buy NC's that have claims of vintage cuban tobacco in them. A large % of the B&M proprieters I've met know very little about cigars, so I doubt they would know a real from fake. Of course that is most, I've met a handful that have dwarfed my personal knowledge.


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## poker (Dec 11, 1997)

Its more common than many folks know. 

Many of the B&M's are cautious on who they tell though. Then again, one day I walked into a semi-local cigar shop (never been there before) and after looking around a bit, I was asked what I normally smoked. I was honest and told them almost exclusivly Havanas, but I just wanted to look around. It was then 2 hidden spaces in the walk-in humi were shown to me. Didnt pay much attention though as I knew they would be overpriced. What I did see was over 20 boxes of different cigars bearing the Havana name. Bolivars, Paratagas, Cohibas, MC's, VR's, etc.
I wouldnt doubt some or all could be fake, but I was stunned they would show em all to someone they never saw before. Prices ranged from 25-50ea

Almost all of my local cigar shops that I have gotten to know the folks at, had at least something claiming to be Cuban available for some of their better known regular customers.


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## ambientboy (Jun 10, 2007)

poker said:


> I wouldnt doubt some or all could be fake, but I was stunned they would show em all to someone they never saw before. Prices ranged from 25-50ea
> .


It amazes me that people will drop those bucks on them! A little research would really shock the average wannabe.


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## demiurgic (Feb 18, 2008)

I was surprised to learn that at our local B&M, about 200 miles away did as well. The owner actually gave me a Siglo VI box after I shopped and asked if he had and empty oxes I could buy.
we went to the back, where there were some sweet looking cc boxes pinned to the wall in a beautiful display. 
This was in an industrial area with people abound mind you. 
Any passer by in that complex could easily view these boxes! 

I did not ask for prices, purchased a NC and left. 

demi


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## adsantos13 (Oct 10, 2006)

M1903A1 said:


> I don't buy it. A store that did that, and got caught, would be in VERY big trouble. Probably a sure route to a future "for rent" sign in the window


When there is a high profit involved, people are very willing to break the law. Even seemingly smart people who "should know better". As with any black market, the illegality of the commodity raises the price and profit margins, which in turn entice people to participate in the market. Same dynamic is at work when you see newspaper articles about Lawyers, Doctors, etc getting caught involved in illegal drug conspiracies.

If it is common for B&Ms to hawk fake Havanas, which is just as illegal as selling real ones, then it It wouldn't surprise me one bit that there are B&M's that acquire genuine stock on the internet and sell it in their stores at exorbitant prices.


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## cryinlicks (Jan 3, 2007)

there is a b&m here that used to (not sure if they still do) sell legit boxes.


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## GrtndpwrflOZ (May 17, 2007)

There's a B&M by me that has a "back room" He offers to show me but I cannot see a reason to buy sticks at $18 a piece or 5 for $75 when I can get them for 6-8 dollars a piece.

I belive these to be the real deal. just too much mark up. 

B


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## floydpink (Feb 15, 2007)

Mine is at the opposite extreme. I was close to renting a locker for $300 a year and began reading the contract. When I came across the part about them looking in your locker for Cuban cigars, I changed my mind.

They do have a full humidor of aged Habanos out in plain view for sale.

The only problem is they are around $200 a stick and are pre embargo.


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## RPB67 (Mar 26, 2005)

Happens all the time.

I know of a very well known local B&M that their cellar looks like a LCDH. :ss


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## havana_lover (Feb 15, 2007)

floydpink said:


> Mine is at the opposite extreme. I was close to renting a locker for $300 a year and began reading the contract. When I came across the part about them looking in your locker for Cuban cigars, I changed my mind.
> 
> They do have a full humidor of aged Habanos out in plain view for sale.
> 
> The only problem is they are around $200 a stick and are pre embargo.


you pay for a locker and they search it for Cubans?? hmm illegal search maybe??

and for all the "pre embargo" cigars I have seen, man they must have made a billion cigars in the year before this embargo..

in other word they will never ever run out of pre embargo cigars even if you clean out there supply tomorrow they will have more..


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## Volt (Jan 6, 2008)

havana_lover said:


> you pay for a locker and they search it for Cubans?? *hmm illegal search maybe*??
> 
> and for all the "pre embargo" cigars I have seen, man they must have made a billion cigars in the year before this embargo..
> 
> in other word they will never ever run out of pre embargo cigars even if you clean out there supply tomorrow they will have more..


Not if you agree to the process in the rental agreement...


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## floydpink (Feb 15, 2007)

Most of the staff think it's BS, but disclose it anyway. Apparantly, they open the lockers from the back to check humidification and if you have an open cedar tray showing your Habanos, you will get a letter to remove them and lose your "priveleges" after the second infraction.

I stop by frequently, and often on my motorcycle, so thought a locker would be convenient. I may still rent one and just be careful with my inventory...


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## croatan (Mar 23, 2005)

I knew of one shop that sold legit Cubans (way overpriced) and I know of many that sell fake ones.


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## icehog3 (Feb 20, 2005)

floydpink said:


> Most of the staff think it's BS, but disclose it anyway. Apparantly, they open the lockers from the back to check humidification and if you have an open cedar tray showing your Habanos, you will get a letter to remove them and lose your "priveleges" after the second infraction.
> 
> I stop by frequently, and often on my motorcycle, so thought a locker would be convenient. I may still rent one and just be careful with my inventory...


Just put your Habanos in an NC box.


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## floydpink (Feb 15, 2007)

icehog3 said:


> Just put your Habanos in an NC box.


Yeah, that's what i was thinking....
I guess they need to cover themselves due to the size of the company (Corona)


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## poker (Dec 11, 1997)

...or put Cremosa bands on your Bolivar Beli's :r


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## bonggoy (Mar 9, 2006)

I wouldn't be suprised if I see a B&M selling cubans. From what I heard, it' really not that difficult to procure authentic cuban cigars. 

I also don't see anything wrong when they in turn add a big mark up in price. I would assume they are putting a premium on taking a risk of getting caught and fined.


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## sames (Oct 23, 2007)

What would be the fine/penalty if they were to be caught?


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## bonggoy (Mar 9, 2006)

sames said:


> What would be the fine/penalty if they were to be caught?


http://www.fff.org/comment/ed0900h.asp

If a Cuban commits these economic crimes, he is subject to severe criminal penalties, the same type of *criminal penalties to which the New York restaurant owner was subjected for buying and selling Cuban cigars. (He faced 10 years in prison and a $500,000 fine but the feds were nice to him and let him plead guilty to two misdemeanors, pay a $5,000 fine, and serve the "community" for 200 hours, further reflecting the arbitrary application of the law.*)


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## jkim05 (Feb 26, 2007)

floydpink said:


> Most of the staff think it's BS, but disclose it anyway. Apparantly, they open the lockers from the back to check humidification and if you have an open cedar tray showing your Habanos, you will get a letter to remove them and lose your "priveleges" after the second infraction.
> 
> I stop by frequently, and often on my motorcycle, so thought a locker would be convenient. I may still rent one and just be careful with my inventory...


So you spoke with them and they said they actually enforce this rule? I know a B&M near me has this rule, but it's just because the owner is ignorant, and he doesn't even actually care. He knows there are tons of habanos in the lockers...even he has a couple boxes, he just listened to some insurance guy who said he had to have that rule. Anyways, I was frustrated about that rule for a while, until I talked to him about it and then it ended up that he didn't care what I put in there, as long as there was no alcohol because he would lose his liquor license.


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## uptown_cigar (Nov 27, 2007)

I can't believe any B&M would even take the chance. When customers hand me ISOMs as gifts, I don't even keep them in store. I take them home the same day and put them in my humi at home. Selling them, or even keeping them in their store is the dumbest thing they can do.


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## Kwilkinson (Apr 11, 2008)

uptown_cigar said:


> Selling them, or even keeping them in their store is the dumbest thing they can do.


It could be argued that any individual owning them would be the dumbest thing someone could do. To some people it's worth the risk, to some it's not.


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## Jay Hemingway-cl (Oct 21, 2007)

my local b&m get's a box of the real deal in every once in a while. very discret though, i mean very!
i was going there twice a week for 7 months and was even close friends with two employees outside of the store before i was offered one. they were punch's, forgot the vitola, i never bought one as they were $20 a piece. i inspected them for about 15 minutes, they were legit.
i had even mentioned them a few times to my friends and they kept it quite for that long. they said only customers that are well known are told about them. funny i asked about them being worried about the cops, they told me some of the people that bought them are cops!!! 
i haven't been in there for a long time so i am not even sure if they still do it anymore.
at least they don't just ask anyone like some of the other places that were just talked about.


@ bongoy, yea i remember reading the entire story about that guy in NYC. very interesting read.


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## ky toker (Jun 2, 2005)

I know of a shop that has very questionable cigars and too over priced to matter. And don't bother questioning the authenticity in conversation either. :r

Just smile and pickup something nice to smoke.:ss


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## Snake Hips (May 30, 2008)

A small B&M here has CC Cohibas, but I've never been able to see them to know if they're real. The old guy that runs the shop keeps it quiet and only lets it be known to _real_ good customers - a really good friend of ours told us this. He knows the guy real well and he gets offered them for $25 a piece. He's a seasoned, veteran cigar smoker who only smokes the best and he insists that they're genuine, so I'm inclined to think they are. Another reason I'm inclined to believe it is because last time I was in there, the guy mentioned something about the cops being all over his ass when he asked me if I had my ID for the sake of policy.


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## Snake Hips (May 30, 2008)

[EDIT]


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## Twill413 (Jul 19, 2006)

I have never heard of this, which doesn't suprise me because I am not a regular at any B & M. I did get a sideways look one time when the owner asked what I was smoking, and I said RyJ churchill. Of course I had already made my obligatory purchases, so he just kind of said hmmm, and walked away. I am sure he knows where to get legit Habanos.

I don't know what all the cop talk has to do with anything. AFAIK, Local smokies aren't gonna be able to do anything, since the Feds and OFAC are the ones who would have jurisdiction. Sure they could tip them off, but that seems like more work than they would take on.


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## borndead1 (Oct 21, 2006)

I know for a fact that some upscale country clubs order CCs and sell them to their members. Never seen them at a regular B&M though.


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## Guest (Jun 13, 2008)

Seen it personally at at least half a dozen B & M's. Only two had the real thing, and in both those cases, I was gifted the cigar, NOT a purchase, and I was a known customer before they were offered.


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## ResIpsa (Mar 8, 2006)

bonggoy said:


> http://www.fff.org/comment/ed0900h.asp
> 
> If a Cuban commits these economic crimes, he is subject to severe criminal penalties, the same type of *criminal penalties to which the New York restaurant owner was subjected for buying and selling Cuban cigars. (He faced 10 years in prison and a $500,000 fine but the feds were nice to him and let him plead guilty to two misdemeanors, pay a $5,000 fine, and serve the "community" for 200 hours, further reflecting the arbitrary application of the law.*)


For a B&M owner, I would be much more worried about losing my business if I were selling Cuban cigars illegally.

Asset forfeiture is becoming more and more common under federal law, and if a cigar store were using their premises to illegally sell Cuban cigars I would not be at all surprised to see the government move for forfeiture to make an example of them.:2


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## chibnkr (May 2, 2007)

Kwilkinson said:


> It could be argued that any individual owning them would be the dumbest thing someone could do.


Huh?


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## Kwilkinson (Apr 11, 2008)

chibnkr said:


> Huh?


I meant in the sense that there are consequences. If the person I responded to thinks that it is stupid for businesses to own them illegally, then he must think that it is stupid for individuals to own them illegally. Either way, you're breaking the law and there are major consequences to pay, individual or business. That said, I could care less if somebody buys them, I wasn't stating my opinion, just responding to the post.


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## thebiglebowski (Dec 19, 2005)

this happened about 3 years ago (i thought i had posted it, but did a search just now on my replies and topics and couldn't find it...). stopped in one day at a B&M near my workplace. didn't particularly care for this place as they really didn't stock a lot of the stuff i liked, but would still pop in every now and then. in their small-ish walk-in, i notice waaaaaaaay up on a top shelf in the corner, the familiar yellow box with the cute little indian girl. 

hmm.

on my tippy-toes, i can see that they're esplendidos. 

wow.

now i'm a little excited. i ask the owner, who was there, about them. he merrily grabs a footstool and pulls down the box. they were 5-packs. in tubos. $75 per pack. 

again, i thought i had posted this out here - but i quickly rushed back to work and asked y'all about this particular presentation and every man, woman and child out here was quick to offer their opinions on the complete lack of authenticity here. 

i went back the next day, spoke to the owner and shared those opinions with him. he basically just shrugged and said he gets them from his cousin in toronto and he trusts his cousin that they're the real deal.

i still think it's funny...


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## pearson (May 27, 2008)

My local B&M has some comming in this month but at 35 a stick I think I will keep to my self. The guy said that he had some ATF agents in and they just said "dont ask dont tell."


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## poker (Dec 11, 1997)

Directly from US Customs:

quote:

Importation of Cuban-origin cigars and other Cuban-origin tobacco products is prohibited whether the goods are purchased by the importer or given to the importer as a gift. Similarly, the import ban extends to Cuban-origin cigars and other Cuban-origin tobacco products offered for sale over the Internet or through a catalog.

It is also illegal for U.S. persons to buy, sell, trade, or otherwise engage in transactions involving illegally-imported Cuban cigars. The penalties for doing so include, in addition to confiscation of the cigars, civil fines of up to $55,000 per violation and in appropriate cases, criminal prosecution which may result in higher fines and/or imprisonment.

It makes no mention if you already have them in your personal posession for your own personal consumption, or seen smoking one.


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## Darrell (Aug 12, 2007)

hoax said:


> Vegas Robaina


How does he know that? Did it have a VR band on it?


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## RUJohnny99 (Jan 20, 2008)

In my hometown there's a B&m owned by a torcedor who rolls his own cigars all day. I was visiting my parents, so I stopped in and took a look at his walk-in. On one of the top shelves, slightly hidden was an authentic box of Cohiba Robustos intact except for one. I looked over the cigars...completely real. So, I grabbed two and went to the counter. The owner had a look of horror on his face..."NO NO NO...Is Not for sale." 

From his broken English & my broken Spanish, I was able to piece together that he was aging them in his walk-in for a friend of his. It was kind of funny. I guess he doesn't get much business.


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## hoax (Aug 7, 2007)

Darrell said:


> How does he know that? Did it have a VR band on it?


It had the big "R" band on it.

He saw the box with the Habana seal on it and I double checked online as well.


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## Snake Hips (May 30, 2008)

In a couple of weeks my boss and very good friend will have the old guy at my B&M show us the Cubans (if they're real). That would be cool if they are real, and my boss trusts this guy to death. I won't be buying any (I'll be in Canada in a month anyway), but this is my chance to check them out.


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## havana_lover (Feb 15, 2007)

Last time I was in FL I had my travel humi with me and the guy wanted to buy every cigar I had.. I have him one to smoke but didnt sell a single one, told him there to smoke not to sell..


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## MNWanger (Jun 2, 2008)

floydpink said:


> Mine is at the opposite extreme. I was close to renting a locker for $300 a year and began reading the contract. When I came across the part about them looking in your locker for Cuban cigars, I changed my mind.
> 
> They do have a full humidor of aged Habanos out in plain view for sale.
> 
> The only problem is they are around $200 a stick and are pre embargo.


Looks like I won't get a locker at Corona once I move down to FL. LOL

My take on this whole thing is that casual cigar smokers will get so enamored with a Cuban cigar that they WILL pay those prices (double and triple what those "in the know" are able to get them for). They are the ones who look at them as the "forbidden fruit" and get all nervous and giddy when they see a "real" one. I've had my fair share of them, I will say that. They are not as big of a deal to have (to me) as a lot of other people will make them out to be. Yes, it is a risk to order them and ship them in, and those that take that risk know it. If you're ordering 5-10 boxes a month, you're at more of a risk than someone who orders one 2 times a year, but you're both risking something.

Now, as for B&M's that sell them, they are taking an even bigger risk, IMO. They are risking the business. However, they would know their local authorities better than we here on this board would. Some of them may even sell them to the local authorities. At the same time, how likely is it that the gov't will send a "task force" out to all the B&Ms and find and confiscate all the CCs that they can find? My opinion...not very likely at all. It's a calculated risk, and they know more of the variables than we do.


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## EvanS (Dec 29, 2006)

Got one within 80 miles of me that has a 4'x8' closet sealed up and stuffed chock FULL of sealed and open boxes. I was there one time in the company of a very select clientel and was invited back as part of the group. I am certainly no expert but everything I saw looked completely authentic and the '05 Petit Edmundo that I got for $10 tasted and felt right in every way that I can measure. IF it was fake, I really don't care cuz it was most excellent.

BTW - this sale was not rung up on the cash register, nor along with any other purchases made that day

Truth is I don't not generally go here as it's a bit far away and I really don't like to be exposed in THAT way. Kinda like leaving the Native American Reservation with a load of firecrackers and getting busted getting into your car. It just makes me uneasy. Plus prices are better other places. BUT if I happened to be in the area, wasn't carrying and wanted to buy and smoke there, I would certainly do so.


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## kas (Nov 22, 2006)

poker said:


> Directly from US Customs:
> 
> quote:
> 
> ...


Amen. I was drawn here by the thread title and, as usual, I frankly come away scratching my head and wondering why so many people have so much trouble getting the message. Illegal is illegal.


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## ScottishSmoker (Feb 11, 2007)

Almost every off strip casino in Las Vegas has under the counter CCs....of all those shops, I only know of one that has legit stuff...and yes, they are sold at a mark up. This August could prove to be real entertaining...the ATF is sending out auditors to every property in Nevada that has a Tobacco tax license...


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## Sir Winston (Sep 29, 2006)

Some how I doubt ATF is going to go a door to door seach looking for habanos at B&M shops. I knew atleast four or five B&M that sold cubans including the one i used to frequent.


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## ScottishSmoker (Feb 11, 2007)

Sir Winston said:


> Some how I doubt ATF is going to go a door to door seach looking for habanos at B&M shops. I knew atleast four or five B&M that sold cubans including the one i used to frequent.


The ATF does do door to door checks on shops...doing at a state at a time...The thing they really look for, more than the Cubans, is improper usage of cigarette tax stamps. They are looking to eradicate the issue they have been having all over the country with a group of Arab owners who run cigarette shops...they are known to open stores in more than one state and transfer the cigarettes between the two in an attempt to avoid paying higher taxes on their end. If one state has no tax, they will order all of their inventory into that store and transfer a lot of that same inventory to the neighboring state with a higher tax. This is a form of tax fraud that has been costing a lot of money in a lot of states. They are truly gunning after that part of the business, not necessarily the cigar side of the business because cigars all enter into the United States with a different form of taxation than cigarettes. If you are a cigarette smoker, just turn your pack upside down, and assuming you haven't removed the full cellophane wrapper, you will see the tax stamp on the bottom of all packs...


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## kasper13 (Jul 2, 2008)

I was in vegas not too long ago and one of the casino cigar shops I was looking things over and I commented how I was recently on a cruise and still enjoying what I had brought back with me and the employee went behind the counter and got a set of keys. He then went to one of the humidor cases and opened a draw below and it was full of Cubans or so he claimed. I do not remember the price but it was beyond ridicules so much so that I did not even inspect them so I can not say if they were fake or not.
I was kind of shocked that in a famous casino they would offer cubans to people unknown.


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## Snake Hips (May 30, 2008)

My B&M has Habanos. I'm pretty sure they're real, though, because the owner is a solid, knowledgable guy and he doesn't sell them to just anyone. They're for the employees and close friends to buy and only them. All "the Guys" have a few in their lockers. They're things like Vegas Robainas, Montecristo No. 2s, Partagas Serie D No. 4s and a few Cohibas, all of which are completely legit to my eyes. And they're all plumey too (not moldy, it's plume - I saw it and holy crap...). My friend (an employee) showed me his PSD4 all plumed out, and he told me how he was saving it and stuff. I asked him why not just buy more, and he said "Not for $20 a piece." I just said "Dude, just get them at retail. You can smoke some of mine."

The other B&M I know has fakes. Just straight-up fakes. I don't know why they'd risk their whole business and not even have the real thing. It's ridiculous.


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## broozer (Mar 23, 2006)

has anyone in the austin/san antonio area ever heard of a store in san marcos selling fakes? i ask because i ran across someone smoking a fake VR a week or so ago and the fella said he'd been buying "cubans" from that store for years. 

the fella was none too pleased when i informed him it was a fake. he got quite mad at me for telling him that.

bruce


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## md4958 (Aug 15, 2008)

kasper13 said:


> I was in vegas not too long ago and one of the casino cigar shops I was looking things over and I commented how I was recently on a cruise and still enjoying what I had brought back with me and the employee went behind the counter and got a set of keys. He then went to one of the humidor cases and opened a draw below and it was full of Cubans or so he claimed. I do not remember the price but it was beyond ridicules so much so that I did not even inspect them so I can not say if they were fake or not.
> I was kind of shocked that in a famous casino they would offer cubans to people unknown.


what happens in Vegas...


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## aich75013 (Jul 14, 2008)

One of my students claims that she knows the owner of a B&M in Houston who gets CCs all the time. She offered to bring me some. _If she ever does_, I'll be sure to post pictures. I'm not expecting them to be real, though.


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## Padron42 (Sep 18, 2007)

I was in a B&M the other day and was talking about tatuajes with one of the employees (not sure if it was the owner or what) and he said they had a stash in the side room. I took a look with him and they were clear fakes, and I'm no expert on cubans either. The only reason I knew was they were Monte's and didn't have a triple cap, which I am pretty sure is a sure sign of fakes. He was charging close to 30 a piece too, so obviously I didn't take a flyer just to see if it was any good. It's amazing to me that an owner could be that stupid to risk that.


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## krisko (Jul 28, 2007)

My local B&M wouldn't even let me store my Cubans in a rental box in their walk-in humidor. They said the chance of a random inspection by customs or other federal agency was just too great. The owner will give me a genererous store credit in trade for Partagas and Bolivar cubans however.

He's not willing to buy Cubans for his personal consumption because of the risk of getting closed down.


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## stevieray (Sep 28, 2006)

krisko said:


> My local B&M wouldn't even let me store my Cubans in a rental box in their walk-in humidor. They said the chance of a random inspection by customs or other federal agency was just too great. *The owner will give me a genererous store credit in trade for Partagas and Bolivar cubans however.*
> He's not willing to buy Cubans for his personal consumption because of the risk of getting closed down.


I'm sure he will..lol..not for personal consumption of course


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## fsjonsey (May 23, 2008)

ScottishSmoker said:


> The ATF does do door to door checks on shops...doing at a state at a time...The thing they really look for, more than the Cubans, is improper usage of cigarette tax stamps. They are looking to eradicate the issue they have been having all over the country with a group of Arab owners who run cigarette shops...they are known to open stores in more than one state and transfer the cigarettes between the two in an attempt to avoid paying higher taxes on their end. If one state has no tax, they will order all of their inventory into that store and transfer a lot of that same inventory to the neighboring state with a higher tax. This is a form of tax fraud that has been costing a lot of money in a lot of states. They are truly gunning after that part of the business, not necessarily the cigar side of the business because cigars all enter into the United States with a different form of taxation than cigarettes. If you are a cigarette smoker, just turn your pack upside down, and assuming you haven't removed the full cellophane wrapper, you will see the tax stamp on the bottom of all packs...


A couple of those Arab tax stamp rings were actually discovered to be funding operations of Hamas and Hezbollah.


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## cigarlvr (Jan 13, 2008)

From what I am reading most are fake dont spend your hard earned $$ if so get something from Nic


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## Snake Hips (May 30, 2008)

cigarlvr said:


> From what I am reading most are fake dont spend your hard earned $$ if so get something from Nic


Actually, I'd say get something from Cuba, but genuine and at retail price.


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## tonyrocks922 (Mar 6, 2007)

havana_lover said:


> you pay for a locker and they search it for Cubans?? hmm illegal search maybe??


LOL, Yeah, someone searching his own property is "illegal" especially when your rental agreement says he will.



Jay Hemingway said:


> funny i asked about them being worried about the cops, they told me some of the people that bought them are cops!!!


Cops don't care about Cuban Cigars. They have bigger things to worry about and don't even have to authority to take enforcement action against people selling CCs. 
I don't understand why everyone on this board is so tight-lipped and nervous about CCs. You have a better chance of getting nailed for shipping tobacco across state lines in a Pass, WTS, MAW, etc., then getting in trouble for buying CCs.


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## BlewSmoke.com (Sep 1, 2008)

I was in Vegas for a bachlor party weekend and did buy a sealed box of Partagas Lusitanias from a B&M. If they were fakes..they were were very good.. I think i paid $325 or 350 for the box cash. It was about 2 years ago. The owner pulled them out of a locker he had. Real or Fake?? I'd say real.. but regardless, the were very good.


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## SeanGAR (Jul 9, 2004)

tonyrocks922 said:


> I don't understand why everyone on this board is so tight-lipped and nervous about CCs. You have a better chance of getting nailed for shipping tobacco across state lines in a Pass, WTS, MAW, etc., then getting in trouble for buying CCs.


Well, I'm not paranoid, but I have collected a few letters from people I'd rather not know my name.

And no, you do not have a better chance of getting caught shipping tobacco across state lines than buying CCs.

You do understand that packages shipped into the US from other countries can be inspected and opened by Customs/DHS and that there is no equivalent state agency to check packages entering from other states?

You do realize that buying Cuban cigars is illegal for Americans and that the feds are not disinterested and will fine people? You have been keeping up to date on the OFAC fines and warning letters?

http://www-DOT-ustreas.gov/offices/enforcement/ofac/civpen/index.shtml
(replace DOT with .)

*Enforcement report for June 6: fines for people buying Cuban cigars*
$1000
$500
$390
$806.82

*Enforcement report July 11: fines for people buying Cuban cigars:*
$4351.50
$1225
$1681.55
$650
$395.25

*Enforcement report for August 1: fines for people buying Cuban cigars:*
$1000
$952.25

Can you post fines people have received for shipping tobacco across state lines?

No, you don't have to be paranoid, but buying something that is illegal here in the US carries a risk. Loose lips sink ships. Shipping a box of cigars across state lines has much less risk because there is no customs form, nor inspection, and states are much more interested in lost revenue from tobacco sales than revenue neutral practices such as sending cigars from one adult to another.


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## raralith (Sep 26, 2008)

*shrug* I don't know why it would be surprising. When I started a bit more than a month ago, I hit about 6 B&M's locally and on business. I'd buy probably $30-$100 here and there to get a good variety. I had a hotel near a B&M twice in two weeks for seperate business trips so I probably visisted it 4 or 5 times. He did the same as others above, had a private locker, and pulled out a box. At this point, I didn't read any of the stickies in this section so I didn't know if they were fake or not so I didn't buy any.

Just recently, I think I even got screwed over in Mexico! Yeah, yeah, I should have went to the LCDH, but this one was right next to the border. I bought two, tried one (Monte #2), and while it was not bad, it didn't have any complexity to it. Lesson learned, go to an LCDH.


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