# Fakeroo? Your opinion please



## Moglman-cl (May 27, 2005)

I got some VR DAs from a new vendor, shipped to me without cost until verified, so I'm out no money. I strongly believe these are fakes but I should defer to the wiser opinions here, as I am not a pro at spotting them. The vendor got them "directly" from cuba.

No Habanos sticker and has a hologram?










Lettering on warranty seal looks funny, and EC for DIC 04?


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## Moglman-cl (May 27, 2005)

Funny date stamp?










Poorly rolled?


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## Moglman-cl (May 27, 2005)

Don't quite fill the box, and piss poor caps? (The orangish color is because I took these without flash)


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## pnoon (Jun 8, 2005)

I am nowhere near an expert at spotting these things. But since you asked for opinions, I will give you one. The most suspicious thing to me are the "piss poor caps". 
:2


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## Da Klugs (Jan 8, 2005)

Hecho - is it burned in or ink. Wet your finger and rub it a bit. Any gold flakes on the cigars? Angled stamps always make me nervous after the great "Polish" fiasco.

Lots of stems for VRDA's but that doesn't mean they are fake.


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## Moglman-cl (May 27, 2005)

Da Klugs said:


> Hecho - is it burned in or ink. Wet your finger and rub it a bit. Any gold flakes on the cigars? Angled stamps always make me nervous after the great "Polish" fiasco.
> 
> Lots of stems for VRDA's but that doesn't mean they are fake.


"Habanos", "Hecho" and "Totalamente" is burned in. One of the first things I checked.


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## Navydoc (Jan 26, 2005)

OK..here's my :2 No Habanos sticker, Hologram, the fact you don't have to pay until you get them, piss poor print job on the seal.......fakes. Everything you already identified. Of course, the true test is the taste but not looking good so far.


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## Da Klugs (Jan 8, 2005)

Holograms = nervousness. When in doubt... send em back. Either that or check with the source and ask to smoke one. If you like them that is what matters.

It's not like these are hard to find from established vendors. Part of the joy of smoking is feeling good about the cigar. If you have any doubts, might impact your smoking experience.


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## Moglman-cl (May 27, 2005)

Da Klugs said:


> Holograms = nervousness. When in doubt... send em back. Either that or check with the source and ask to smoke one. If you like them that is what matters.
> 
> It's not like these are hard to find from established vendors. Part of the joy of smoking is feeling good about the cigar. If you have any doubts, might impact your smoking experience.


Although I was waiting for opinions, I don't have much doubt, the kicker being the price (too good too be true). No skin off my butt, but always hopeful, ya know. Thanks guys.


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## opus (Jun 21, 2005)

I think they look suspect. Those caps and the veins. I have a box from OCT 04 that have nice caps and have no veins that stand out like those do. My box seal is FD. A Mo the man dissection would tell the real story, that along with smoking one. I would just send them back.


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## Moglman-cl (May 27, 2005)

opusxox said:


> I think they look suspect. Those caps and the veins. I have a box from OCT 04 that have nice caps and have no veins that stand out like those do. My box seal is FD. A Mo the man dissection would tell the real story, that along with smoking one. I would just send them back.


I compared one you had sent me Skip. VRs are too well made from what I've seen. I appreciate the input.


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## SuperT (Oct 19, 2005)

They look VERY suspect to me for the above stated reasons. I also think the gold 'leaves' on the box look over done (could be the picture). I'd ask the vendor if he/she would allow you to smoke one and THEN send back if you aren't satisfied. Seems to me, they may be preying on newer Cuban smokers by being OVERLY confident. I mean if they let you inspect BEFORE paying, they HAVE to be real. . . RIGHT?


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## RPB67 (Mar 26, 2005)

Navydoc said:


> OK..here's my :2 No Habanos sticker, Hologram, the fact you don't have to pay until you get them, piss poor print job on the seal.......fakes. Everything you already identified. Of course, the true test is the taste but not looking good so far.


Cant go by that ,they are fakes because vendor doesnt charge until he gets it. My vendor that I have been using never charges me until touchdown and he is very reputable.

The hologram and the sideways date stamp is what worries me. I also dont like that the triple cap is almost non existant.

You have two choices. Smokem and try them and then you own them or return them and ask him for another box. If you are on good terms with him email or call him and he should welcome your comments if you are a good customer !

Good luck !

I would call the vendor and discuss it with him.


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## pnoon (Jun 8, 2005)

Da Klugs said:


> Part of the joy of smoking is feeling good about the cigar.


So very true. You are a wise man, Klugs.


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## joed (Nov 12, 2005)

I read the input from the more experienced BOTL's - but my thought is that if you are unsure enough to worry - send them back - the doubts will detract from the pleasure - and that's the whole point isn't it? My :2


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## croatan (Mar 23, 2005)

Moglman said:


> the kicker being the price (too good too be true).


That should really tell you right there, especially coupled with the other worrisome indications.


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## Ms. SeanGAR (Mar 15, 2005)

In addition to what others said, the ink on the seal does not look right.

Oops ..posted with the wife's account.


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## Gordon in NM (Mar 9, 2005)

El Fako.

EC prefix is way too early for a December 04 box date. EC would be OK for a box from somewhere in early '03 , possibly a little later, but not that much later. Boxcodes in DIC 04 should be somewhere in the "G" range.

They may very well be cuban, as there are a ton of fakes (some of them unbelievably good) coming from the island. The warranty seall fakers are nearly perfect now, right down to the UV seal and microprinting. The UV "secret" seals are there on the fakes too. I've got fake seals with better microprinting than most of the real ones, BUt here's how you can tell. 

Hold the seal under the UV light next to a box with a KNOWN good seal. Hold the seals side by side... The fake seal will ALMOST ALWAYS be printed on UV enhanced paper. This makes paper look whiter in noprmal light, and MUCH whiter under black light. If my hunch on these is right, the paper the seal on your cigars is printed on will show up MUCH whiter than the known good seal paper.

I'd send 'em back, Too much funny stuff going on with this box. 

Gordo

These aren't outta Canada by any chance are they?


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## Xmodius (Jun 21, 2005)

I'm a noob, and I don't know shit. But, my first box of 'Cubans' had a hologram, and that alerted me IMMEDIATELY, even though I was assured that they were TOTALLY GENUINE by the seller, a trusted member of Clubstogie.

Caveat emptor.

Don't be anyone's fool.

(edit) P.S. They might be real, but who cares? If you have any reason to doubt, return them for a refund or keep them as educational specimens. And....remember.


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## Thurm15 (Jan 28, 2005)

Send those Suckers back!!!!!


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## Hunter (May 20, 2005)

Da Klugs said:


> Hecho - is it burned in or ink. Wet your finger and rub it a bit. Any gold flakes on the cigars? Angled stamps always make me nervous after the great "Polish" fiasco.
> 
> Lots of stems for VRDA's but that doesn't mean they are fake.


Klugs.. Why are gold flakes significant? I bought a box of KDT's and upon inspection what appeared to be minute gold flecks could be seen.. not crystals.. they appeared metallic.


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## jgros001 (Jun 14, 2005)

Hunter said:


> Klugs.. Why are gold flakes significant? I bought a box of KDT's and upon inspection what appeared to be minute gold flecks could be seen.. not crystals.. they appeared metallic.


Because there were some fake boxes of VRDAs that had this gold dust all over them. Made them look pretty neat but they were fakes. Those actually looked much better than the pics in this thread - although the color in the picture isn't very good the caps looked nicer.


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## Puffy69 (Sep 8, 2005)

Send those back, just for the mere fact that the roller seemed to be smokin crack..Smokes are ugly..at least your not out $


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## vic_c (Sep 7, 2005)

Gordon is 100% correct on the EC prefix..add that to the top of the box missing the corner sticker and the sticks looking funny and you get fake. I would send them back or just keep them and tell the vendor you never received them!


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## Moglman-cl (May 27, 2005)

Thanks to everyone. On the plus side, I noticed everything mentioned here before even posting this thread, with the exception of Gordon's tip on the UV enhanced paper (thanks Gordon). I did UV for seal, check microprinting (as bad as the real thing), EC not appropriate for DIC 04, etc. So, I guess it's a plus to know my spotting skills are improving. While I believe they were possibly Cuban, I didn't bother trying to smoke one. I sent back today to cut ties to someone preying on the ignorant.


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## cigarking (Jun 5, 2003)

I will start by saying this "FAAAKKKEESS"

How much did they charge for the box??

Remember only boxes of Cuban cigars sold in stores in Cuba will have hologram-that means also that a 40% mark up retail.

Holograms on street USD$2.50
Labels USD$2.50
Cigar box USD$2.50
Cuban Cigar tabacco- From some plantation were they offered thae farmer more money than the Cuban government would pay him.
Visit www.justfakes.com and see what they are selling and get a picture of how these boxes are assembled in someone's living room.

Cuban cigars exported to reputable vedors will never have holograms.
All warranty seals and Habnos chevron should be pasted- last but not least the proof is always with the font stamp style used for the factory code.

*Gentlemen let this be a lesson...*This is a box from a very large undergroud operation in Havana that are also responsible for the many fake EL'S that are sometimes exported to Spain,Canada Italy and Germany and other countires. Study the font stamp carefully Remember!!!


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## Cartierusm (Jan 25, 2005)

First off I've just visited Justfakes for the second time, first time about a year ago...we should find this guy and 'rack' him, at least the Devil will have company in hell!!! Second, how can I find the serial number on the Cuban seal prefix to see if it coincides with the date made? I've got some new Monte #2s and the serial number starts with HD. Cigarkind you talk about the font, the font on the ink stamp on the back or the font for the serial number on the Cuban seal, or both?


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## cigarking (Jun 5, 2003)

Cartierusm said:


> First off I've just visited Justfakes for the second time, first time about a year ago...we should find this guy and 'rack' him, at least the Devil will have company in hell!!! Second, how can I find the serial number on the Cuban seal prefix to see if it coincides with the date made? I've got some new Monte #2s and the serial number starts with HD. Cigarkind you talk about the font, the font on the ink stamp on the back or the font for the serial number on the Cuban seal, or both?


I don't know how to decifer this code and warranty seals, and am amazed how certain members have learned. I am interested in learning myself if any one can point to a website or other??

I am refering to the stamped ink code on back of box.


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## RcktS4 (Jan 13, 2005)

Cartierusm said:


> how can I find the serial number on the Cuban seal prefix to see if it coincides with the date made? I've got some new Monte #2s and the serial number starts with HD.


Well, as I understand it, this is not an exact science, but the first two letters on the ser # have been increasing over the past few years. I think Sean has some kind of spreadsheet going with ser #'s and date codes... again, nothing exact, but if you get a BG ser # on a 2005 box, probably not a good sign. FWIW Hx is about the most recent I've seen on any boxes, so that sounds right for a new box to me.

edit: you might want to check out Cazadore's informative post on this subject


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## vudu9 (Mar 7, 2005)

All of the VR's I've run across are near perfect in construction, ESPECIALLY the caps.


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## montecristo#2 (May 29, 2006)

cigarking said:


> Visit www.justfakes.com and see what they are selling and get a picture of how these boxes are assembled in someone's living room.


I couldn't believe my eyes when I came across this website. Unbelievable, like I am really going to use a fake box picture for framing. Is this site for real?

the problem with the internet these days. . .

just my :2


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## DaveC (Sep 4, 2003)

the cigars are not authentic Habanos from the VR brand. 

sorry about the purchase.


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## 68TriShield (May 15, 2006)

A friend sent me a box of Cohiba Pyramides from Fla. They were 8$ a stick.Cubans yes, real cohibas no. Worth the 8$? I think so as they were well made(no plugs) and had good flavor. I'd buy more if they came around. P.S.He thought they were real so it was a letdown for him.


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## Bruce (Dec 31, 1999)

With all due respect, why would you purchase cigars from a vendor that:
You do not know well
Know little about
Are unsure of quality/reputation?

Not a flame, but a legitimate question. It always perplexes me when someone buys a box of cuban cigars and then asks "are these real?"

Guys, you have one of the best networking resources right here on this board. Why take a chance when you have this network available to you?


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## clampdown (Feb 7, 2006)

Im not sure if this already a post somewhere in this vast region of club stogie. But should we post websites or vendors that are selling these bogus smokes? I know the rule is not to post sites, but if they arent ISOM's, then who does it hurt. Just curious. 

I hope everything works out for you.


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## Lumpold (Apr 28, 2005)

cigarking said:


> Visit www.justfakes.com and see what they are selling and get a picture of how these boxes are assembled in someone's living room.


Would any of our Canadian members like to report this site to the Canadian Customs authorities? They're selling Canadian 'duty paid' stickers....


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## Lopez (Mar 14, 2006)

Moglman said:


> Although I was waiting for opinions, I don't have much doubt, the kicker being the price (too good too be true).


Don't really need to know anything else but that.


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## mike32312 (Jan 26, 2006)

Like the old saying. If it's to good to be true..than it probably ain't.


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## Corona Gigante-cl (Sep 8, 2005)

clampdown said:


> Im not sure if this already a post somewhere in this vast region of club stogie. But should we post websites or vendors that are selling these bogus smokes? I know the rule is not to post sites, but if they arent ISOM's, then who does it hurt. Just curious.
> 
> I hope everything works out for you.


*ahem* 3 Simple rules of Club Stogie

Rule #1: 1) DO NOT ask how to buy Cubans in the United States... Along these same lines, please don't ask which retailers ship to the US, how they perform, etc.


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## Thurm15 (Jan 28, 2005)

clampdown said:


> Im not sure if this already a post somewhere in this vast region of club stogie. But should we post websites or vendors that are selling these bogus smokes? I know the rule is not to post sites, but if they arent ISOM's, then who does it hurt. Just curious.
> 
> I hope everything works out for you.


This thread is 6 months old. The topic of posting known fake vendor's links has been brought up before and I believe it was shot down.


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## Baric (Jun 14, 2006)

Navydoc said:


> OK..here's my :2 No Habanos sticker, Hologram, the fact you don't have to pay until you get them, piss poor print job on the seal.......fakes.


Does the existence of a hologram mean it is a fake (or am i reading this wrong) as i have bought genuine cigars in the Partagas factory in Havana with holograms that look like the one in the picture? Other than tht, the evidence does seem to point towards fakes.


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## bonggoy (Mar 9, 2006)

Baric said:


> *Does the existence of a hologram mean it is a fake* (or am i reading this wrong) as i have bought genuine cigars in the Partagas factory in Havana with holograms that look like the one in the picture? Other than tht, the evidence does seem to point towards fakes.


Cigars bought from legal channels in Cuba do have hologram.


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