# What's the worst cigar you've had ....not counting condition issues



## jacko (Jul 4, 2014)

We often see the best ... whats the worst.

For me it was a 1876 reserve. For about 2 years I only smoked premium Cuban cigars (and one bespoke Nicaraguan), I decided to branch out and try non-cubans and so i started buying up some samplers and boxes of various other popular non-cubans. 

The first non-Cuban I ever had was a 1876 Reserve that came in a sampler... I thought omg non-Cubans are awful ! how do Americans cope !


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## Redwyvern (Aug 6, 2013)

That's an easy one for me. I tried a White Owl just recently to take the edge off... BIG MISTAKE!
But as far as Premiums go, it would have to be the Pinar del Rio's I got in a mixed sampler from CI. The Clasico, Seleccion, Oscuro, and Habano Sun Grown. All 4 were torpedo's and all 4 were the worst, even after resting for 6 months. :frusty:


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## Btubes18 (Aug 21, 2011)

Probably the worst cigar I have ever had was the Gurhka Cellar Reserve or whatever...terrible. Fighting Cocks are pretty bad as well. As far as a premium brand, I actually found that I don't like La Palina cigars...most I have had have left me unimpressed.


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## pdq_wizzard (Mar 15, 2014)

Acid Blondie, took about 2 drags and tossed it just nasty :spit:u


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## jimmyv723 (Jul 2, 2014)

CI Legends Series Drew Estates. It was infused but honestly it was like having a piece of butterscotch candy that had been sitting in the smokiest bar for a year. Just was not a good flavor mix and haven't gone near another infused cigar again.


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## LGHT (Oct 12, 2009)

The one I took a hit off from my gramps when he wasn't looking. I just took a puff and breathed in as hard as I could. I coughed for a minute and threw up shortly afterward. No clue what cigar it was, but it was by far the worse I've ever tried lol.


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## Cool Breeze (Jan 10, 2014)

I picked up a Quorum when I first started enjoying cigars and it was pretty bad. I've heard people that liked them, but they're not for me.



> But as far as Premiums go, it would have to be the Pinar del Rio's I got in a mixed sampler from CI. The Clasico, Seleccion, Oscuro, and Habano Sun Grown. All 4 were torpedo's and all 4 were the worst, even after resting for 6 months.


That actually surprises me.
I've only tried 2 of them, the Oscuro and the Habano Sun Grown but enjoyed them both.
Hey, we're all different I guess. No one is right or wrong.


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## El wedo del milagro (Jul 3, 2012)

PdR's are awesome after a couple years rest... this just proves the saying, "One man's trash is another man's treasure."


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## jacko (Jul 4, 2014)

LGHT said:


> The one I took a hit off from my gramps when he wasn't looking. I just took a puff and breathed in as hard as I could. I coughed for a minute and threw up shortly afterward. No clue what cigar it was, but it was by far the worse I've ever tried lol.


HaHa thats a good one, what age were you and did he realize what you had done ?


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## JustTroItIn (Jan 12, 2014)

Garo Double Habano. I still have one buried in the humidor just in case someone I don't like asks for a cigar.


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## sullen (Sep 10, 2013)

JustTroItIn said:


> Garo Double Habano. I still have one buried in the humidor just in case someone I don't like asks for a cigar.


same here. 
that thing was the WORST.
nothing has ever even came close to how bad it was...
ugh....


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## Mashie (Oct 16, 2012)

I tried a Gran Habano sampler and did not like a single one of them.


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## Tobias Lutz (Feb 18, 2013)

Acid C-Note. For a non-infused, regular vitola, the award goes to a 14 of the 15 sticks in the CI Po' Boy Sampler :lol:


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## Old Smokey (Sep 13, 2013)

Las Vegas cigar. It was early in the hobby and decided to give it a try. It sucked, but I tried to tough it out. After about a third I tossed it. It is the only cigar I have tried that got the special treatment.


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## MDSPHOTO (Sep 10, 2013)

Cain F, the only cigar I've ever thrown out after just a few puffs.


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## imported_mark_j (Aug 18, 2013)

Genesis The Project. Didn't even make it 1/2".


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## Joe Bonzo (Dec 20, 2013)

Cool Breeze said:


> I picked up a Quorum when I first started enjoying cigars and it was pretty bad. I've heard people that liked them, but they're not for me.
> 
> That actually surprises me.
> I've only tried 2 of them, the Oscuro and the Habano Sun Grown but enjoyed them both.
> Hey, we're all different I guess. No one is right or wrong.


Right there with you on both points...the only Quorum I've tried was the least enjoyable cigar I've ever had, and I've enjoyed the couple PdR's that I've tried.


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## c.ortiz108 (Nov 16, 2013)

5 Vegas Gold Maduro. Unsmokeable, especially since the wrapper is like asbestos coated leather.


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## pdq_wizzard (Mar 15, 2014)

MDSPHOTO said:


> Cain F, the only cigar I've ever thrown out after just a few puffs.


Like was said in another post, one mans trash, you can send any Cain F's you get my way 8)


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## Indy-hp (Feb 22, 2014)

c.ortiz108 said:


> 5 Vegas Gold Maduro. Unsmokeable, especially since the wrapper is like asbestos coated leather.


Same here. Bitter, nasty taste with a truly fireproof wrapper. Ug! Got 4 in a sampler. Smoked half of one and gave the other 3 away.


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## Kasanova King (Jun 8, 2014)

Other than the machine made ones (Blunts, White Owls, Black and Milds, etc)...out of the real, hand rolled cigars I would have to say Felipe Dominicana Coronas. I got a bundle of them fresh from CI a little over a month ago. Smoked (or tried smoking) 5 of them. I only was able to finish 2 out of the 5....the other 3 got tossed. I'm hoping some major humidor resting time will help these things along.


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## thechasm442 (Jan 21, 2014)

I second the 5 Vegas gold maduro. Flame retardant.


My worst was a Gurkha Viper. Just plain awful.


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## Cool Breeze (Jan 10, 2014)

I also did not enjoy the 5 Vegas Gold Maduro that I tried. I too had to relight several times, which doesn't do good things for taste in a good cigar, let alone one that sucked to begin with.


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## Cigar-Enthusiast (Feb 2, 2014)

5 Vegas Gold Maduro for me as well. 
After burning it with a damn torch it still wouldn't stay lit...:doh:


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## benjimo (May 26, 2014)

No. 59 Factory Throwout. A draw so tight that you almost think they made it without the intent of smoking it.
A taste that reminds me a bit of the fumes from a propane grill.


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## Saltmarsh (Sep 20, 2013)

Acid Blondie, not what I'm looking for in taste!


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## Rennsport1150 (May 14, 2014)

Hey Dolce Vita, c'mon why do you even bother pickin the corn & peanuts outa those things you call cigars!


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## beercritic (Feb 13, 2011)

Quorum, Gran Habano & Gurkha were all pretty miserable. Also don't care for most of the Acid line, some Naturals are OK, if I can ignore the sweetened tip.


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## Branzig (Jul 14, 2013)

I concur with the Acid hate. Not my cup o' tea.

I was given a Fighting Cock Churchill. That one comes to mind as being pretty dreadful.


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## JustinThyme (Jun 17, 2013)

Hmm, see I share tastes with a few Brothers. For me its a toss up between the 5 vegas gold maduro dog turd and the Gurkha Viper cat box special.


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## Bruck (Jan 8, 2013)

c.ortiz108 said:


> 5 Vegas Gold Maduro. Unsmokeable, especially since the wrapper is like asbestos coated leather.


No kidding! I like the rest of the 5 Vegas line, but dang, the gold maduros taste like they were rolled by a proctologist with poor hygiene


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## Bruck (Jan 8, 2013)

...that having been said, some of my absolute worst smokes have been:

A no-name bundle that I picked up in Honduras for the equivalent of about $3 (for 20); I didn't know any better! Got a terrific headache from the first one; threw the rest away!

A fake Cuban that I picked up in the Bahamas. I knew it was fake, but for the price I thought how bad could it be? Bad. uke:

A JR generic something or other that literally tasted like sewage.

& a couple of my early home-rolled ones didn't last an inch, but that was more construction issues - learning curve!


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## c.ortiz108 (Nov 16, 2013)

beercritic said:


> Quorum, Gran Habano & Gurkha were all pretty miserable. Also don't care for most of the Acid line, some Naturals are OK, if I can ignore the sweetened tip.


Which Gurkha? The hundreds they have are made by various blenders. And which Gran Habano? Haven't had any yet but the Aztec and 2002 get good reviews.


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## Kasanova King (Jun 8, 2014)

Branzig said:


> I concur with the Acid hate. Not my cup o' tea.
> 
> I was given a Fighting Cock Churchill. That one comes to mind as being pretty dreadful.


I actually like Fighting Cocks...one of my favorite cheap sticks.

But you can keep the Acids....not my cup of tea either.


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## Crusader (Mar 18, 2014)

Acid blondie. 4 puffs and it chucked it in the ditch. How any sober person can smoke one is beyond me.


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## Kasanova King (Jun 8, 2014)

Crusader said:


> Acid blondie. 4 puffs and it chucked it in the ditch. How any sober person can smoke one is beyond me.


I've only tried the Toasted so far...and I was disappointed in it. I've got 4 more left (That I ordered way back, before I knew what the heck I was doing)....the thing is with these, for some reason, I doubt they get better with age....so I'll end up smoking them eventually....or maybe give them away.


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## Bondo 440 (Jul 24, 2012)

Kasanova King said:


> I've only tried the Toasted so far...and I was disappointed in it. I've got 4 more left (That I ordered way back, before I knew what the heck I was doing)....the thing is with these, for some reason, I doubt they get better with age....so I'll end up smoking them eventually....or maybe give them away.


I like em' but they benefit none from age. They're infused and the flavoring will turn. 
Send em to the troops or goodwill em to friends. Or enemies, I guess :lol:


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## Gdaddy (Sep 20, 2012)

El Mejor Espresso. With it's slimy, fake dyed wrapper. Poor burn and tunneling and no good flavors at all.

Like a dead fish in the moonlight. It sure shines beautifully but it stinks.


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## six10 (May 23, 2013)

"La Finca" Notes of rotten hay, hickory Windex, and wrong.


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## Branzig (Jul 14, 2013)

Kasanova King said:


> I actually like Fighting Cocks...one of my favorite cheap sticks.


Hmm...well it burned terrible so it could of been the condition it was kept more so than the actual cigar itself. Maybe one day I will have to give it another go.


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## Nature (Jul 30, 2012)

Perdomo Tierra del Sol or a Pirata Pequenos


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## jacko (Jul 4, 2014)

This is turning out to be a valuable thread in knowing which cheap sticks to avoid, it seems that you should steer clear of Acid !


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## Bernardini (Nov 14, 2013)

5 Vegas Classic....I know some swear by them but they are not for me. I made the mistake of buying 2 5ers off of the comments on CI website (I know, newb mistake). Every couple of months I will try one again, can't get through it.


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## Redwyvern (Aug 6, 2013)

Ok, I'm going to have to revisit the PDR line, the last time was early in my palate maturing days. I also avoid the 5 Vegas Gold Maduro. Probably the only Maduro I've met that I didn't like!


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## SeanTheEvans (Dec 13, 2013)

jacko said:


> This is turning out to be a valuable thread in knowing which cheap sticks to avoid, it seems that you should steer clear of Acid !


I'd watch out with that kind of logic, you'll miss quite a few awesome sticks. Acids are one of those love 'em or hate 'em. Loads of people dig infused cigars, even on this forum, but those who don't are usually very vocal. While some of the repeat offenders on this list are worth passing up, be wary of every counting out an entire line or brand just because they seem to be taking flak in any thread. You could search and probably find 100 threads on this site proclaiming how great acids are... just saying.

People tend to hate on RP & Gurkha as brands too, but plenty of brothers here really enjoy those smokes, and they don't cost much either.

Everyone's tastes are different, find yours :yo:


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## LewZephyr (Aug 2, 2013)

Cool Breeze said:


> That actually surprises me.
> I've only tried 2 of them, the Oscuro and the Habano Sun Grown but enjoyed them both.
> Hey, we're all different I guess. No one is right or wrong.


I was thinking the same thing.... I enjoyed all 4 of them myself. Not saying best Gar ever mind ya, but I did enjoy em.


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## jacko (Jul 4, 2014)

SeanTheEvans said:


> I'd watch out with that kind of logic, you'll miss quite a few awesome sticks. Acids are one of those love 'em or hate 'em. Loads of people dig infused cigars, even on this forum, but those who don't are usually very vocal. While some of the repeat offenders on this list are worth passing up, be wary of every counting out an entire line or brand just because they seem to be taking flak in any thread. You could search and probably find 100 threads on this site proclaiming how great acids are... just saying.
> 
> People tend to hate on RP & Gurkha as brands too, but plenty of brothers here really enjoy those smokes, and they don't cost much either.
> 
> Everyone's tastes are different, find yours :yo:


Good point


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## beercritic (Feb 13, 2011)

c.ortiz108 said:


> Which Gurkha? The hundreds they have are made by various blenders. And which Gran Habano? Haven't had any yet but the Aztec and 2002 get good reviews.


Had perhaps a dozen different Gurkhas. Beauty, Beast, & the rest were just forgettable. Hence my signature line. The Gran Habanos just didn't deliver a very good smoke. Even sitting on them for a year didn't help either brand. The GH were all the ones with the aged wrappers. I did find the G.A.R. smokes to be tolerable, but they had 3 years rest before I got around to smoking them.


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## Horsefeathers (Jul 26, 2013)

Had a Room 101 Daruma Papi Chulo that was I thought awful. First and only stick I've put out because of the flavor / taste. Every time I see someone post a pic of one of these I think "They can't possibly like that. Right!?!"


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## TCBSmokes (Sep 25, 2013)

six10 said:


> "La Finca" Notes of rotten hay, hickory Windex, and wrong.


Lol. Haven't seen some of those listed on the "flacor wheel".


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## Charger Fan (Feb 27, 2014)

pdq_wizzard said:


> Acid Blondie, took about 2 drags and tossed it just nasty :spit:u


Yup - same here. Actually I took 3 puff before tossing. I got a 5 pack sampler. I took the other 4 to my local B&M. I swapped 4 for 2 just to keep me from tossing those out. Having a rapport with your local B&M comes in handy.


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## Damselnotindistress (Aug 7, 2011)

:hmm: I can't believe all the wonderful smokes on here you guys have listed as "worsts" but - Hey! I do agree with the reviews of 5 Vegas Gold Maduro :yuck: As far as the Fighting Cocks...I keep on hand the original Phillipine tobacco releases of this stick...not bad at all IMHO. The ones being made nowadays in the DR probably do earn the "sheesh!" review. For me the worst(s) I've experienced was Las Cabrillas - MAN what a lousy dry cigar :cheeky: Alec Bradley's Connecticut release. Just-No :tsk: From years and years back, Bances. I was firmly convinced that some kind of bitter chemical was applied to this stick because it always inexplicably burned my mouth and lips - yes I bought & tried it a few times. Always the same unpleasant experience. And yeah...the infused Acids and other Drew experiments.


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## DrBob (Mar 26, 2014)

The worst cigar I have smoked was a Indian Tabac Classic Teepee and my notes are: smoked while golfing - a pretty bad cigar, started out with strong hay and ended harsh and tarry, only had a few good puffs in the middle third.


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## jp1979 (Sep 12, 2013)

Helix Maduro. Only stick I have ever chucked.


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## c.ortiz108 (Nov 16, 2013)

DrBob said:


> The worst cigar I have smoked was a Indian Tabac Classic Teepee and my notes are: smoked while golfing - a pretty bad cigar, started out with strong hay and ended harsh and tarry, only had a few good puffs in the middle third.


I had a Classic Arrow rott and it was just as you said - pretty awful. But after 6 months or so it really transformed to a nice rich smoke.


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## jacko (Jul 4, 2014)

jp1979 said:


> Helix Maduro. Only stick I have ever chucked.


The only cigar I've chucked was a RyJ Belisco that I dropped into a pint of Guinness ! I was not happy....still finished the pint


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## pdq_wizzard (Mar 15, 2014)

jacko said:


> This is turning out to be a valuable thread in knowing which cheap sticks to avoid, it seems that you should steer clear of Acid !





SeanTheEvans said:


> I'd watch out with that kind of logic, you'll miss quite a few awesome sticks. Acids are one of those love 'em or hate 'em. Loads of people dig infused cigars, even on this forum, but those who don't are usually very vocal. While some of the repeat offenders on this list are worth passing up, be wary of every counting out an entire line or brand just because they seem to be taking flak in any thread. You could search and probably find 100 threads on this site proclaiming how great acids are... just saying.
> 
> People tend to hate on RP & Gurkha as brands too, but plenty of brothers here really enjoy those smokes, and they don't cost much either.
> 
> Everyone's tastes are different, find yours :yo:


^^ Sean is right, the title is What's the worst cigar "you've" had.

Some of the cigars I enjoy some people here might say they suck.


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## Rosa (May 30, 2014)

RP Edge Lite. Had no flavor to me.


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## JKlavins (Jun 28, 2013)

SeanTheEvans said:


> I'd watch out with that kind of logic, you'll miss quite a few awesome sticks. Acids are one of those love 'em or hate 'em. Loads of people dig infused cigars, even on this forum, but those who don't are usually very vocal. While some of the repeat offenders on this list are worth passing up, be wary of every counting out an entire line or brand just because they seem to be taking flak in any thread. You could search and probably find 100 threads on this site proclaiming how great acids are... just saying.
> 
> People tend to hate on RP & Gurkha as brands too, but plenty of brothers here really enjoy those smokes, and they don't cost much either.
> 
> Everyone's tastes are different, find yours :yo:


Hear, hear! I feel exactly the same way. While there are some smokes that are a bad experience, everyone should find out what they don't like for themselves. My first L'Atelier was horrible, but I gave it another chance and they are great smokes!


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## jp1979 (Sep 12, 2013)

pdq_wizzard said:


> ^^ Sean is right, the title is What's the worst cigar "you've" had.
> 
> Some of the cigars I enjoy some people here might say they suck.


I welcome anyone to go try a Helix Maduro, If there is a single person that enjoys it, I will pay for it.


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## pdq_wizzard (Mar 15, 2014)

jp1979 said:


> I welcome anyone to go try a Helix Maduro, If there is a single person that enjoys it, I will pay for it.


what the .... do they sweep the floors to get the fillers?

Helix Cigars
Filler: D.R., Bra., Mex.
Binder: Honduras

P.S. it scores a 7.69 on Puff's top 25


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## GreatPlainsSmoker (Jun 19, 2014)

The worst one I had was a surprise to me as the same company makes my favorite.

I had an Aging Room M356 Mezzo Torro and just LOVED it. My number 1 "go to" cigar. Then saw that the Aging Room Quattro F55 was the number 2 on CA top 25 for 2013. Figured that if the M356 was so enjoyable and that CA was saying F55 was #2 , had to get some. The only size I was able to track down at the time was the smaller Stretto Corona Extra (4.5in 46rg). The CA version was the Concerto (7in 50RG). Bought a box I was so convinced these would be equally delicious.

Terrible. Not a redeeming quality as far as I was concerned. Gave it 2 more goes and they sit at the bottom of my list of cigars with 3 left in my humi.

Baffled at how this could be a #2 cigar, I have recently ordered the Concerto to see if the size difference can really make that much of a difference or whether I will put less faith in the CA ratings.

Will keep you posted.


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## jp1979 (Sep 12, 2013)

pdq_wizzard said:


> what the .... do they sweep the floors to get the fillers?
> 
> Helix Cigars
> Filler: D.R., Bra., Mex.
> ...


It should be .769


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## FlyersFan (Nov 4, 2013)

I think the worst I've ever had has to be a tossup between the Gurkha Park Avenue and the Rocky Patel Cargo.


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## Pj201 (Apr 27, 2013)

Bruck said:


> No kidding! I like the rest of the 5 Vegas line, but dang, the gold maduros taste like they were rolled by a proctologist with poor hygiene


I rarely hate a cigar but I agree 100% on the gold maduros. I can enjoy any well rested 5 Vegas blend, and the classic holds a presence in my humi at all times. For the maduro...dirty proctologist fits perfect.


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## Langhorne (Jun 28, 2014)

A really long time ago in the early days of CBid I bid on and won (lost, really) a bunch of pooch projectiles. The one I remember the worst was Professor Sila. It was like rolled up dust bunnies. I still see them in the catalogs and wonder if they are left over from 2001.


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## Arizona Dave (Nov 5, 2012)

Damselnotindistress said:


> :hmm: I can't believe all the wonderful smokes on here you guys have listed as "worsts" but - Hey! I do agree with the reviews of 5 Vegas Gold Maduro :yuck: As far as the Fighting Cocks...I keep on hand the original Phillipine tobacco releases of this stick...not bad at all IMHO. The ones being made nowadays in the DR probably do earn the "sheesh!" review.


The Original Fighting Cock was a good, if not great cigar, before they changed the blend and packaging. It had a subtle Cuban taste that would sneak up and kick ya' in the rear, if one's not careful. Too bad they destroyed it! On that note, I'd say the new fighting cock was a complete dud.

Now, I just roll my own Entubados.


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## Coasty (Mar 1, 2012)

Flora de Todo. 
I got sucked in on a 5er for $3 on cbid a few years ago. Tried one and then a 2nd and them trashed the last three.


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## vick2121 (Jul 10, 2014)

The 1990 version of the Red Lion Crapusto (some giant dog rocket). They sucked then, they still suck today.


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## MattyMatt (Aug 10, 2014)

Rocky Patel 99 Connecticut. Thought I was smoking grass, the kind from my front lawn not the other one that makes you crave Doritos. It was then I leaned towards maduros and found what I liked.


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## DbeatDano (Aug 3, 2014)

Bruck said:


> No kidding! I like the rest of the 5 Vegas line, but dang, the gold maduros taste like they were rolled by a proctologist with poor hygiene


Damn that line made me spit beer on my screen.


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## cakeanddottle (Mar 14, 2011)

The only cigar I ever quit on was a PdR, drowned it a third of the way in.


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## tmoran (Mar 25, 2014)

Davidoff Primeros.

My XO loves the Davidoff 1000, and I have to admit it, I don't hate it if she doesn't want to finish and leaves the last bit for me. They are really good, but at $9.00 for what is only slightly larger than a cigarillo, not a whole lot of value to be had. I threw in a tin of the Davidoff Primeros on an order once, hoping they would have a similar flavor at a much cheaper price. Really awful things. She tried to say they weren't that bad, but I took a puff and they were really horrible. I thought it had to be a fluke, so I tried another one the other day. The rest will be tossed.


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## cakeanddottle (Mar 14, 2011)

Whoever said Aging Room Quattro, send them to me!!! One of my top 5 .


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## Bondo 440 (Jul 24, 2012)

No great loss, but Sundays' Famous Nicaraguan 6000 green label maduro. Was ... sad. Build was spot on, but bland profile and each puff had a funky end note to it. I gave it a chance and after about 10 minutes it was retired. First cigar I've tossed in a while.. and I've made it through the Helix and Vegas Gold maduros.


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## Bubb (May 28, 2014)

Well I thought tomyself how bad can a quality macine mede be well, i certainly found out. Bought myself an FX Smith natural, took me two days to recover from the taste and nausia inducing flavor. I would rather smoke a toilet paper tube stuffed with spanish moss. Gack tossed the rest.uke:


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## SeanTheEvans (Dec 13, 2013)

tmoran said:


> Davidoff Primeros.
> 
> My XO loves the Davidoff 1000, and I have to admit it, I don't hate it if she doesn't want to finish and leaves the last bit for me. They are really good, but at $9.00 for what is only slightly larger than a cigarillo, not a whole lot of value to be had. I threw in a tin of the Davidoff Primeros on an order once, hoping they would have a similar flavor at a much cheaper price. Really awful things. She tried to say they weren't that bad, but I took a puff and they were really horrible. I thought it had to be a fluke, so I tried another one the other day. The rest will be tossed.


You should certainly weigh in: http://www.cigarforums.net/forums/vb/cigar-questions/336651-davidoff-nicaragua-primeros.html

ATM, it seems as though there is no opposition to these


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## PapaHoot (Jul 16, 2014)

I tried a Gurkha Ghost Shadow and enjoyed it so I thought try another Gurkha. Bad Idea. I tried the East India Trading Company Red Witch Friday and couldn't get through half of it. Not only did it just taste bad but the dang thing wouldn't burn to boot! I had to toss it.

The second worse had to be a Punch Rothschild. It was supposed to be great but it tasted like smoking cardboard!


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## iatrestman (Jan 22, 2014)

mark_j said:


> Genesis The Project. Didn't even make it 1/2".


Wow this was surprising... I haven't had one but have heard great things? Anyone else can comment?

For me it was a single cigar and not a cigar brand. I have had three Diesel HOD Rabid Figurado, and one of them tasted more like the you-know-what of a dog than hair of the dog.... It was the second one I smoked and I remembered enjoying the first so I chanced a third a few weeks later and actually REALLY enjoyed it.... Bizarre. Maybe I got an actual dog turd. They all came from the same 5er and had been stored in the same conditions.


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## tmoran (Mar 25, 2014)

SeanTheEvans said:


> You should certainly weigh in: http://www.cigarforums.net/forums/vb/cigar-questions/336651-davidoff-nicaragua-primeros.html
> 
> ATM, it seems as though there is no opposition to these


Wow, did not see that thread. Maybe I did get a bad batch. Thanks for the heads up.

ETA: Just realized they were talking about the Davidoff Nicaragua Primeros. The ones I am talking about the regular naturals. They have an Ecuadorian CT wrapper.


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## GrouchyDog (Mar 12, 2013)

DE Java - actually made me puke about a third into it. I was astounded, because I have a gut made of iron; NOTHING but a virus makes me hurl. I have no idea how it's even physiologically possible that a cigar would provoke that... :???:

A friend gave me a Ghurka Beauty (he pronounces it gee-EAR-ka, as if it's a rare and wonderful indulgence) that I've been avoiding; I'm gonna have to bite the bullet at some point and spark it up because he asks about it every time I run into him.


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## iatrestman (Jan 22, 2014)

GrouchyDog said:


> DE Java - actually made me puke about a third into it. I was astounded, because I have a gut made of iron; NOTHING but a virus makes me hurl. I have no idea how it's even physiologically possible that a cigar would provoke that... :???:
> 
> A friend gave me a Ghurka Beauty (he pronounces it gee-EAR-ka, as if it's a rare and wonderful indulgence) that I've been avoiding; I'm gonna have to bite the bullet at some point and spark it up because he asks about it every time I run into him.


The Beauty isn't terrible. About a third of that line fall apart when you smoke them, but the flavors are decent while they hold up. A pretty average Connecticut. Probably better than Oliva Connecticut, which isn't really saying much.... They are worth about the 2.50 that CI charges for them. Next time your buddy asks how you liked that 30 dollar gem he gave you, tell him it wasn't bad for a 3 buck stick.


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## c.ortiz108 (Nov 16, 2013)

The JdN Rosalones I had over the weekend was definitely high up in my awful smokes experiences. Espresso and cedar alternating with rotten vegetables and tar fumes.


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## fattaman (Jun 1, 2014)

I got 2 Iron Horse in a freebie from Famous. It was a pretty lousy smoke. I still have one left in the humi which I plan on forgetting about. Maybe it will get better with a few years on it.


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## ubenumber2 (Mar 9, 2014)

Out golfing and a buddy gave me a Cusano C1 or something like that , horrible , he then said he gets them on CB for about 3 bucks a 4 pack , lol


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## harned (Jun 11, 2013)

Tried a La Perla Ivory the other day. Figured the rest of their lines are decent enough and cheap. Got a 5er on cb for $5, so no loss really. Smelled and tasted like tea tree oil. If you aren't familiar, think old lake side motel room smell. I had to toss it after a few minutes. Wanted to ralph. F n horrible.


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## Shaun (Jun 28, 2014)

One of my first purchases at a local (and lousy) B&M was a small assortment that included a Quorum that was awful. Really no redeeming qualities.


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## Joe Bonzo (Dec 20, 2013)

ubenumber2 said:


> Out golfing and a buddy gave me a Cusano C1 or something like that , horrible , he then said he gets them on CB for about 3 bucks a 4 pack , lol


Haven't had the C1 but I've smoked the M1 before and found it pretty okay for a cheapo.


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## Damselnotindistress (Aug 7, 2011)

iatrestman said:


> Wow this was surprising... I haven't had one but have heard great things? Anyone else can comment?
> 
> For me it was a single cigar and not a cigar brand. I have had three Diesel HOD Rabid Figurado, and one of them tasted more like the you-know-what of a dog than hair of the dog.... It was the second one I smoked and I remembered enjoying the first so I chanced a third a few weeks later and actually REALLY enjoyed it.... Bizarre. Maybe I got an actual dog turd. They all came from the same 5er and had been stored in the same conditions.


 *I'll comment: I loved the Genesis Project - Ramon Buesos, correct? To ME, it was truly delicious


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## Chad202 (Jul 29, 2014)

Liga IV Amirante... Noob noob noob mistake of buying a 5'er of these thinking they were an offshoot of DE's line...Worst smoke ive had. Horrible tasting tobacco, wrapper falls apart. Also left a bad aftertaste. Never again. Stay away.


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## MattyVan (Jun 11, 2013)

Mine is one that has not been mentioned yet.

Spectre by AJF

Had 3 weeks rest at 65rh. My wife was 5' away when I was cutting it, she could smell it and let me know it smelled like crap. It smelled and tasted like I was smoking straight chemicals. I tossed it across the yard after two puffs... Smell was so strong I could not keep it near me.

I am aware that this is a unique stick, I guess it's not for me as I like everything else from AJF.

Unfortunately I have 3 more.


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## c.ortiz108 (Nov 16, 2013)

MattyVan said:


> Mine is one that has not been mentioned yet.
> 
> Spectre by AJF
> 
> ...


I've actually really been wanting to try these. I like smokey smokes, and I think these are made with latakia, a fire-cured tobacco normally used in pipe blends. Maybe they need more rest?


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## llappen (Jul 24, 2014)

my worst was an Occidental


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## Heath (Aug 16, 2013)

for me it was the kinky friedman texas ******. seriously tasted liked last week old funnies section of the news paper. They could have at least sprayed it with tobacco flavoring but no tasted liked rotten news paper the pbr couldn't even cover it up. it was nasty


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## iatrestman (Jan 22, 2014)

Heath said:


> for me it was the* kinky friedman texas *******. seriously tasted liked last week old funnies section of the news paper. They could have at least sprayed it with tobacco flavoring but no tasted liked rotten news paper the pbr couldn't even cover it up. it was nasty


Is that really the name of a cigar????? o.0


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## MattyVan (Jun 11, 2013)

iatrestman said:


> Is that really the name of a cigar????? o.0


Per google yes, looks like it is no longer available, I guess it was named after his rock band


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## Heath (Aug 16, 2013)

it really is and you haven't heard of them because they're trash. here they are resting in my fire pit awaiting there demise. 



iatrestman said:


> Is that really the name of a cigar????? o.0


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## tnlawyer (Jul 17, 2013)

Heath said:


> for me it was the kinky friedman texas ******. seriously tasted liked last week old funnies section of the news paper. They could have at least sprayed it with tobacco flavoring but no tasted liked rotten news paper the pbr couldn't even cover it up. it was nasty


I like the Kinkster. His cigars are just OK but he's a cool guy.


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## Heath (Aug 16, 2013)

couldn't really agree more. he's a great author and I love his rejection of technology just in genral his true conservative veiws. the sweet kinky lady was a decent stick hated to see it go. but those ******* were trash. probably should have stuck to writing but he's a cigar lover and I get it he wanted to try his hand in the business I just hope next time he contracts with don pepin to help blend and roll then he'd become a household name. 


tnlawyer said:


> I like the Kinkster. His cigars are just OK but he's a cool guy.


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## SailCat (Jun 11, 2014)

PDR Fumas and RP Fusion are the worst for me. Can't make it through either one of these.


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## PapaHoot (Jul 16, 2014)

I wish I could find a Kinky Friedman Jew Boy! That man is cool! Who can not like "A$$hole from El Paso"??????


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## c.ortiz108 (Nov 16, 2013)

PapaHoot said:


> I wish I could find a Kinky Friedman Jew Boy! That man is cool! Who can not like "A$$hole from El Paso"??????


Maybe there should be a sticky thread for people giving away cigars they hate for free. @Heath could've sent you his Jew Boys instead of barbecuing them! (and @MattyVan could send me those Spectres....! Hey was that hint too subtle? :wink


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## Kegen (Aug 9, 2014)

My worst was a Punisher. First it tried to burn my lips off but once that wore off it was just a nasty cigar.


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## Damselnotindistress (Aug 7, 2011)

Heath said:


> for me it was the kinky friedman texas ******. seriously tasted liked last week old funnies section of the news paper. They could have at least sprayed it with tobacco flavoring but no tasted liked rotten news paper the pbr couldn't even cover it up. it was nasty


Wow, REALLY!? Even the Kinky Kristo!? Camacho is the manufacturer who makes his cigar brands. I didn't find them THAT hateful at all! In fact, they were alright, IMHO.


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## Buckeye Stogie (Aug 10, 2014)

Of course barring all bargain basement joke cigars like backwoods/black and milds etc. , the worst cigar I smoked was a Butera Royal Vintage (can't remember exact type). My local guy suggested it for a "light woman's cigar" for my girlfriend. She doesn't smoke cigars and said it was good but to me it literally had zero flavor... cliche as it is, it was like smoking paper


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## iatrestman (Jan 22, 2014)

Heath said:


> it really is and you haven't heard of them because they're trash. here they are resting in my fire pit awaiting there demise.


haha those things give Jews a bad name........ (I am jewish and offended by both the name and quality of that stick lol)


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## Buckeye Stogie (Aug 10, 2014)

Heath said:


> for me it was the kinky friedman texas ******. seriously tasted liked last week old funnies section of the news paper. They could have at least sprayed it with tobacco flavoring but no tasted liked rotten news paper the pbr couldn't even cover it up. it was nasty


Yea I had one of these when I was in Houston. The cigar is complete garbage but the Ring on it was worth the $$$ haha..


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## iatrestman (Jan 22, 2014)

c.ortiz108 said:


> Maybe there should be a sticky thread for people giving away cigars they hate for free. @Heath could've sent you his Jew Boys instead of barbecuing them! *(and @MattyVan could send me those Spectres.*...! Hey was that hint too subtle? :wink


I already PMed him lol.... No luck


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## tnlawyer (Jul 17, 2013)

Heath said:


> couldn't really agree more. he's a great author and I love his rejection of technology just in genral his true conservative veiws. the sweet kinky lady was a decent stick hated to see it go. but those ******* were trash. probably should have stuck to writing but he's a cigar lover and I get it he wanted to try his hand in the business I just hope next time he contracts with don pepin to help blend and roll then he'd become a household name.


He's probably splitting the cigars and using the wrapper for other purposes :lol:


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## tnlawyer (Jul 17, 2013)

iatrestman said:


> haha those things give Jews a bad name........ (I am jewish and offended by both the name and quality of that stick lol)


Kinky is Jewish, so he can get away with the name.


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## PapaHoot (Jul 16, 2014)

c.ortiz108 said:


> Maybe there should be a sticky thread for people giving away cigars they hate for free.


I actually like that idea! One man's trash can be another man's treasure! There have to be some hidden $1 gems out there somewhere.


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## Capt Hobbes (Jul 24, 2014)

Gurkha Master Select XO. Got it in a sampler, first Gurkha I've ever tried. Could be the last. I've seen some good reviews of this one, and some complaining of lack of consistency, so maybe I lucked out getting a bad one.

Too little smoke with no intensity or complexity. Tasted like a cigarette, and not a good cigarette at that. The smoke had a distinct smell of wet plaster. Really. I usually like to sniff the smoke as it rises while the cigar rests between puffs, this one I was holding so it would blow away from me. I soldiered on a little ways into the second third, hoping something interesting would develop. The most interesting thing that happened was a hint of smoldering newspaper I got on a couple of puffs. Put it away and let it die before the halfway mark.


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## Bubb (May 28, 2014)

PapaHoot said:


> I actually like that idea! One man's trash can be another man's treasure! There have to be some hidden $1 gems out there somewhere.


I have a few cluttering up my space.oke:


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## madbricky (Mar 29, 2013)

Redwyvern said:


> Ok, I'm going to have to revisit the PDR line, the last time was early in my palate maturing days. I also avoid the 5 Vegas Gold Maduro. Probably the only Maduro I've met that I didn't like!


I pride myself in knowing the line pretty good. Avoid the torpedoes, Robusto and Toro are the best, and get them down to 65%.
I can tell you it's rolled Cuban style entubado (rolled bunch with filler, not stack) so a v cut is best then guillotine to distribute smoke. They need a good rest like 6mo.and when your ready pm me and we can smoke em together. Good man!


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## c.ortiz108 (Nov 16, 2013)

Bubb said:


> I have a few cluttering up my space.oke:


I'm sure you wont have a hard time finding a new home for them - just post in the WTS section but add "free" to the post and i'm pretty sure you'll have some takers :nod:


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## Bubb (May 28, 2014)

c.ortiz108 said:


> I'm sure you wont have a hard time finding a new home for them - just post in the WTS section but add "free" to the post and i'm pretty sure you'll have some takers :nod:


Still have 8 posts to go, if you have someone deserving of a somewhat lame bomb let me know. :kicknuts:


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## Bruck (Jan 8, 2013)

Bubb said:


> I have a few cluttering up my space.oke:


& don't forget about Cigars for the Troops


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## VictorLouis (Sep 29, 2014)

A 'Value Bundle' in a plain white label from the CVS GOOT sale. I lit one stick outside, and threw the whole bundle in the trash. Might as well have smoke the fiver, or whatever, that I had spent.


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## Auburnguy (Sep 21, 2014)

Curly Head Deluxe. I gave them away. I smoked less than one inch and gave up. It took me a while to give them away.


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## c.ortiz108 (Nov 16, 2013)

It used to be 5 Vegas Gold Maduro, now it's a toss-up between that and Cohiba Red Dot.


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## JIK (Sep 4, 2014)

One of those football shaped ghurkas.


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## Kasanova King (Jun 8, 2014)

I bought a bundle of Felipe Dominicana Coronas a few months ago....tried smoking about half of them at one point or another.....realized that these things could age for 10 years and they still wouldn't get any better. I looked for them the other day and couldn't find them anywhere..... I must have chucked them in the trash during a night of moderate drinking....:laugh:


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## The Horseman's Head (Sep 30, 2014)

CAO OSA Sol.

Blecch.


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## profanitypete (Jul 18, 2014)

I honestly haven't liked a single Rocky Patel I've tried aside from the connecticut. They all taste overwhelmingly dirty & like burning wood to me. But maybe I haven't had the right ones, can't remember which ones I have tried.


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## Midnight_Ryder (Sep 17, 2013)

Non premium - Don Osvaldo. Got it in a sampler and thought I was going to yak after the first puff.

Premium - MUWAT by Drew Estate. While the flavors are somewhat complex, I just don't like the taste of it. Personal preference I suppose. I do enjoy Undercrowns and Nica Rusticas however.


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## jpalamar (Sep 7, 2014)

Never had a 5 Vegas that tasted good.


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## DogRockets (Oct 2, 2014)

Non-premium - Artuero Fuente Curly Head - that thing was nasty

Mid-range - 5 Vegas Gold Maduro - bought a box without trying any ahead of time and I suffered through 20 of those 
- Rocky Patel Vintage - I thought those were completely flavorless. Not sure what the people reviewing it were getting that I wasn't

Premium - Ave Maria (regular version) - again, didn't do anything for me and was pretty tasteless in my humble opinion


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## MDSPHOTO (Sep 10, 2013)

The Horseman's Head said:


> CAO OSA Sol.
> 
> Blecch.


Agree with the Blecch! Do you like other cigars from CAO?


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## Damselnotindistress (Aug 7, 2011)

MDSPHOTO said:


> Agree with the Blecch! Do you like other cigars from CAO?


 :hmm: Gee - I LIKED the CAO OSA SOL! Thought it was pretty good!


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## brimy623 (May 25, 2013)

profanitypete said:


> I honestly haven't liked a single Rocky Patel I've tried aside from the connecticut. They all taste overwhelmingly dirty & like burning wood to me. But maybe I haven't had the right ones, can't remember which ones I have tried.


Try a well rested Decade! I found them to be pretty smooth & creamy!


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## The Horseman's Head (Sep 30, 2014)

MDSPHOTO said:


> Agree with the Blecch! Do you like other cigars from CAO?


I do. The Italia and Brazilia are pretty good. I like the VR as well.


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## Bruck (Jan 8, 2013)

profanitypete said:


> I honestly haven't liked a single Rocky Patel I've tried aside from the connecticut. They all taste overwhelmingly dirty & like burning wood to me. But maybe I haven't had the right ones, can't remember which ones I have tried.


I dig a few of the RP Edges, particularly the Habano.


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## Bruck (Jan 8, 2013)

DogRockets said:


> Non-premium - Artuero Fuente Curly Head - that thing was nasty
> 
> Mid-range - 5 Vegas Gold Maduro - bought a box without trying any ahead of time and I suffered through 20 of those


The Curly Heads are basically leftover scraps from the better Fuentes. Sometimes they're good, sometimes they're not. I don't bother with them as I'd prefer to spend a couple more bux & know I'm getting something decent. Plus there are a lot of decent $3 out there, so why play russian roulette is the way I see it.

Re the Gold Maduros, I don't get it - the rest of the 5 vegas line ranges from decent to pretty good, including the regular golds, but the Gold Maduro tastes like it passed through the digestive system of a large mammal. I've smoke two in my life, the second bcs I couldn't believe that the first one could be so bad.


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## DogRockets (Oct 2, 2014)

Bruck - our tastes seem to be the same! Especially when I saw you just smoked a brisket. If I lived closer to Virginia I'd come over and bring a couple of sticks for after our brisket meal.


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## Nicks85 (Sep 20, 2014)

Gran Habano Azteca and the other 5 cigars that came in a sampler from Famous. Just terrible.


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## Bruck (Jan 8, 2013)

DogRockets said:


> Bruck - our tastes seem to be the same! Especially when I saw you just smoked a brisket. If I lived closer to Virginia I'd come over and bring a couple of sticks for after our brisket meal.


Very good! Actually my most recent smoking production was ribs and chicken  Ft. Wayne's a nice little town, used to get out there once in a while to visit a friend who was a pastor there.


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## Blork (Aug 21, 2015)

Liga IV


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## euro (Aug 2, 2015)

A cheapass Dutch short filler. I was used to Cubans so when I smoked it I really wondered how people can smoke these nasty cigars? I still have a box of them after spending a while in my tupperdor they did improve a lot, but still not tasty. It's funny because when I did read the reviews on the vendors site a lot of people loved them.


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## tonyzoc (Jul 25, 2015)

Phillies Blunt...and afterwards I felt dirty.

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk


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## Carolus Rex (Jun 19, 2015)

Obsidian White and PDR oscuro limitada are tied for me. These are about as close as You can get to smoking a cat turd.


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## Bird-Dog (Oct 16, 2009)

Fighting Cock Filipino torture device (sorry Elvis).


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## CraigT78 (Apr 14, 2015)

Haven't run across one I would consider "bad" yet. I've had a bunch I don't care to smoke again, but they weren't bad. I'm sure it will happen, but I hope I'm avoiding the dog rockets at the point of purchase.


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## hawk45 (Aug 9, 2015)

Bruck said:


> Re the Gold Maduros, I don't get it - the rest of the 5 vegas line ranges from decent to pretty good, including the regular golds, but the Gold Maduro tastes like it passed through the digestive system of a large mammal. I've smoke two in my life, the second bcs I couldn't believe that the first one could be so bad.


Glad a 5'er just showed up of them..hahaha! Well SOB.. Guess I'll be getting $8 worth of displeasure.


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## Toy4Rick (Jun 22, 2015)

I smoked a Rocky Patel Vintage 1990 a few weeks ago, now keep in mind that i have smoked very few cigars in my day but... I could still taste it the next day after brushing my teeth several time, breakfast and lunch. 

Love me a good camp fire smell, but not the next day, it's just rank, that's how this smoke was

Is it me? Did I get a bad one? Or is RP just this way?

Rick


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## Doc Rock (Dec 26, 2006)

Toy4Rick said:


> I smoked a Rocky Patel Vintage 1990 a few weeks ago....
> 
> Love me a good camp fire smell, but not the next day, it's just rank, that's how this smoke was
> 
> ...


It's not just you. :deadhorse:


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## dbach11 (Apr 8, 2015)

Toy4Rick said:


> I smoked a Rocky Patel Vintage 1990 a few weeks ago, now keep in mind that i have smoked very few cigars in my day but... I could still taste it the next day after brushing my teeth several time, breakfast and lunch.
> 
> Love me a good camp fire smell, but not the next day, it's just rank, that's how this smoke was
> 
> ...


I tend to smoke at night, and to be fair I almost always have a less-than-pleasant aftertaste in my mouth the morning after, regardless of the quality of smoke. Just something I've accepted as a reality, I don't think it's unique to RP. Not for me at least.


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## elco69 (May 1, 2013)

Toy4Rick said:


> I smoked a Rocky Patel Vintage 1990 a few weeks ago, now keep in mind that i have smoked very few cigars in my day but... I could still taste it the next day after brushing my teeth several time, breakfast and lunch.
> 
> Love me a good camp fire smell, but not the next day, it's just rank, that's how this smoke was
> 
> ...


Don't know about the lingering smell, but I had an RP 1990 the other day and it was good. Something about the RP 1990/1992 is that I feel they rush it into production and get it out without giving hte cigar time to rest/age a bit. I have a bundle of the 1990 and the 1992 seconds. They need at least 4 months rest at 65% to become enjoyable and after that, they only get better. Pretty much anytime before that, they get tossed like the girl you brought home last night and you just saw with sober eyes.


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## Bird-Dog (Oct 16, 2009)

elco69 said:


> Don't know about the lingering smell, but I had an RP 1990 the other day and it was good. Something about the RP 1990/1992 is that I feel they rush it into production and get it out without giving hte cigar time to rest/age a bit. I have a bundle of the 1990 and the 1992 seconds. They need at least 4 months rest at 65% to become enjoyable and after that, they only get better. Pretty much anytime before that, they get tossed like the girl you brought home last night and you just saw with sober eyes.


I bought a few RP 1992's a while back. Smoked one fresh and hated it. Can't say it was the worst cigar I ever smoked, but it was not enjoyable and put me off buying any more RP's. Fast forward five-years. After burying the remaining ones in my humi with no intention of ever smoking them, but reticent to toss them out considering the cost, I pulled one out on a lark recently. It was much improved. Still don't think I'd ever buy them again, but a little age certainly made them more acceptable.


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## elco69 (May 1, 2013)

curmudgeonista said:


> I bought a few RP 1992's a while back. Smoked one fresh and hated it. Can't say it was the worst cigar I ever smoked, but it was not enjoyable and put me off buying any more RP's. Fast forward five-years. After burying the remaining ones in my humi with no intention of ever smoking them, but reticent to toss them out considering the cost, I pulled one out on a lark recently. It was much improved. Still don't think I'd ever buy them again, but a little age certainly made them more acceptable.


I agree. The regular production line is not worth the coin because of it, however the seconds are worth it, puts them at around $2-$3/stick.


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## Toy4Rick (Jun 22, 2015)

Well I was out of town, stopped by a local smoke shop and this is what i grabbed, won't do that again

The smoke itself wasn't terrible but even the next day, after breakfast, lunch and dinner i could still taste it, seemed to be very oily or something, IDK
Rick


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## Yarddog (Mar 15, 2014)

I've had a few each of the Rocky Patel 1990's and 1992's...pretty good ceegars, no complaints...I don't stock 'em in my humidor but I wouldn't throw 'em out, neither!


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## tonyzoc (Jul 25, 2015)

I really like the RP 1990s. I would say I don't think they're as good as they were when they first came out...around 2000 i think? .. but I still enjoy them and. Always keep a few in my humidor. I probably do put 3-6 months on them before I get around to smoking them...not really intentionally...just they way it seem to work out. 

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk


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## Busco (Sep 22, 2015)

A.J. Fernandez Spectre. Hands down the worst I have ever smoked.


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## Rooke (Oct 6, 2013)

I had a horrible Alec Bradley once. cant remember exactly the one. It has deffinatley made me leery of the brand now. I just recieved another AB in a sampler so after it rests Ill hopefully enjoy it and change my opinions.


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## Busco (Sep 22, 2015)

Rooke said:


> I had a horrible Alec Bradley once. cant remember exactly the one. It has deffinatley made me leery of the brand now. I just recieved another AB in a sampler so after it rests Ill hopefully enjoy it and change my opinions.


I have found AB to be very hit and miss. I have smoked several prensado robusto and have found them underwhelming. I got a 5er of Churchill that came with yellow cello, and they were worthy of the praise they received a few years ago.


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## Rooke (Oct 6, 2013)

Busco said:


> I have found AB to be very hit and miss. I have smoked several prensado robusto and have found them underwhelming. I got a 5er of Churchill that came with yellow cello, and they were worthy of the praise they received a few years ago.


Ya know I think that's the one! However the sun grown wasn't too bad but still. The prensado I had was just bad. I've received another sun grown lately so I'll let it chill and do a review.


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## SeanTheEvans (Dec 13, 2013)

Busco said:


> A.J. Fernandez Spectre. Hands down the worst I have ever smoked.


yARP, I couldn't get through mine. Got rid of the rest in WTS. Some people like 'em. Not mua


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## bill1clinton (Sep 22, 2015)

La flor de cano selectos cristales...wow...the draw was so tight that it was not smokeable...


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## elas9394 (Mar 23, 2015)

Gurkha Warpig. First Gurkha in my life and also its the first cigar ever I threw away in less than 5 mins (Not counting that 5er i got and tasted like gasoline back in March, they got better after resting for 6 months)


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