# More fake Opus X cigars?



## moki (Jan 12, 2004)

Check out this eBay auction from "alldominicanstuff4you":

http://cgi.ebay.com/9-BANDS-COLLECT...ameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem#ebayphotohosting

(if for some reason that URL does not work for you, here is a PDF version of it):

http://people.AmbrosiaSW.com/~andrew/cigars/dr_fake_opus.pdf

A few important things to note:

1) None of the cigars shown have gold "Fuente Fuente Opus X" writing on the cello, despite the fact that some of the vitolas pictured were not even created until long after Fuente switched to writing "Fuente Fuente Opus X" in gold on the cellophane. See here for more packaging info: http://www.vitolas.net/displayimage.php?pos=-730

2) The seller claims that he will ship the cigars directly from the Dominican Republic to the purchaser.

3) Note that in addition to the regular release vitolas, Opus X Chili Peppers are listed (which we already know are fake: http://www.vitolas.net/displayimage.php?pos=-1082 ).

4) This seller also recently sold a number of boxes of "Anejos" also claiming they were shipped directly from the Dominican Republic, which we know is an impossibility given the fact that Fuente cigars are made in a special "export-only" zone in the DR.

Red flags all over the place.

The bands look authentic, as does the ribbon on the foot of the xXx. I'm concerned that this is something larger going on with fake Opus, possibly originating in the DR, possibly involving Fuente employees given the access to authentic bands.


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## mitro (Mar 13, 2007)

Hey! Its a "Chili Papper" thats *really* rare!


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## moki (Jan 12, 2004)

Caveat Emptor -- buyer beware! I would advise AGAINST buying any cigars off of eBay, for sure, and also keep in mind that anything that sounds too good to be true usually is.

Know how things should be packaged; look for improbabilities before buying.


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## Darrell (Aug 12, 2007)

Moki is the all knowing Opus investigator. Trust what he says. :tu


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## chippewastud79 (Sep 18, 2007)

The listing is already removed.


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## gnukfu (Dec 19, 2007)

I believe he isn't selling cigars - just the bands! For $180! Am I reading it correctly?

"9 BANDS COLLECTABLE SET A.FUENTE OPUS X VERY RARE!!!!!"


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## Darrell (Aug 12, 2007)

gnukfu said:


> I believe he isn't selling cigars - just the bands! For $180! Am I reading it correctly?
> 
> "9 BANDS COLLECTABLE SET A.FUENTE OPUS X VERY RARE!!!!!"


:r

The cigars come with the bands, though the tobacco is not fit for consumption. That's how the eBayers get away with selling "tobacco" products on eBay.


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## gnukfu (Dec 19, 2007)

Darrell said:


> :r
> 
> The cigars come with the bands, though the tobacco is not fit for consumption. That's how the eBayers get away with selling "tobacco" products on eBay.


Ahh! Never bought anything off E-Bay - thanks for the explanation. :tu


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## moki (Jan 12, 2004)

gnukfu said:


> I believe he isn't selling cigars - just the bands! For $180! Am I reading it correctly?
> 
> "9 BANDS COLLECTABLE SET A.FUENTE OPUS X VERY RARE!!!!!"


He's stating that because it is eBay's policy regarding tobacco:

http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/tobacco.html

...but it does also nicely insulate him from any recourse, because he never claimed he was selling anything other than authentic bands.


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## Todd W (Jan 9, 2008)

Yeah, this is a losing situation any way you look at it. There are literally no guarantees of quality, authenticity, OR an actual cigar. I see some dealer on ebay that seem to have great feedback, but it's not for me.


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## moki (Jan 12, 2004)

The eBay auction has been removed, so use the archived link that I posted:

http://people.AmbrosiaSW.com/~andrew/cigars/dr_fake_opus.pdf

*Counterfeits, Fakes & Infringers*

Relevant article:

 [URL=http://www.investigation.com/articles/library/2002articles/articles13.htm]http://www.investigation.com/articles/libr.../articles13.htm

_Fuente also is ripped off frequently by less than reputable distributors who claim to have Arturo Fuente factory seconds. *"There absolutely are no Fuente seconds,"* Suarez said. " If they don't measure up to Arturo Fuente standards, *they are destroyed at the factory* or given to employees to smoke." _


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## Puffin Fresh (Nov 1, 2006)

Hey Moki...

Other than the cello, and the questionable origin, is there anything else that tells you these are fake? I believe they are fake, but this has me scared of buying anywhere besides my local B&M. Even has me shying away from buying over the phone from non-local B&M's.

One more unrelated question. We all get so much info from you, and look up to you because of your vast cigar knowledge (which I don't question). Who do you look up to when it comes to cigar knowledge?


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## moki (Jan 12, 2004)

Sauer Grapes said:


> Hey Moki...
> 
> Other than the cello, and the questionable origin, is there anything else that tells you these are fake? I believe they are fake, but this has me scared of buying anywhere besides my local B&M. Even has me shying away from buying over the phone from non-local B&M's.


The four points I mentioned in my original posting.


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## Troop_lee (Aug 10, 2007)

Thank you moki for letting us know!


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## barbourjay (Aug 9, 2007)

back at it again, mind you i don't have a problem with ebay selling. i do have a problem with passing fake goods.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230211978770&_trksid=p2759.l1259


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## moki (Jan 12, 2004)

barbourjay said:


> back at it again, mind you i don't have a problem with ebay selling. i do have a problem with passing fake goods.
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230211978770&_trksid=p2759.l1259


The problem with selling tobacco products on eBay is that the buyer is not protected in any way, shape, or form due to eBay's tobacco policies.

I do think especially in light of the fakes that have surfaced of late, that anyone buying cigars on eBay needs to have their head examined...


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## barbourjay (Aug 9, 2007)

moki said:


> The problem with selling tobacco products on eBay is that the buyer is not protected in any way, shape, or form due to eBay's tobacco policies.
> 
> I do think especially in light of the fakes that have surfaced of late, that anyone buying cigars on eBay needs to have their head examined...


never bought opus on there :tu

here's his response to me asking him why there is no gold stamp on them.



> Hello,
> Thank you for question.
> Because it's ORIGINAL RELEASE OPUS X. Opus X which have gold letter on cellophane this other release after Original. But both release is AUTHENTIC. You can get additional information there:
> http://www.vitolas.net/displayimage.php?pos=-730
> ...


funny how he refrences the same site that details release dates and not all of those cigars were original release cigars.


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## newcigarz (Feb 11, 2007)

barbourjay said:


> Hello,
> Thank you for question.
> Because it's ORIGINAL RELEASE OPUS X. Opus X which have gold letter on cellophane this other release after Original. But both release is AUTHENTIC. You can get additional information there:
> http://www.vitolas.net/displayimage.php?pos=-730
> ...


That is so funny that he references Moki's site :r:r:r


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## barbourjay (Aug 9, 2007)

yeah, here's my response to his response.


> Chili Peppers were not released until 2000 and all came with cello that was gold stamped. also perfection number 4's were not part of the original release nor were the super belicosos or the xXx that you have listed. so over half of your auction doesn't match up with what you just told me.


now i'll just wait to see what else he says.


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## Jbailey (Nov 9, 2006)

Should be interesting.


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## newcigarz (Feb 11, 2007)

> INFORMATION FOR ALL PEOPLE AND COMPETITORS:
> 
> YOU DOUBT OF THAT BANDS NOT AUTHENTIC? CHECK UP OUR FEEDBACKS OF THOSE PEOPLE WHO HAS REALLY RECEIVED THE GOODS FROM US.
> 
> ...


:r:r:r


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## barbourjay (Aug 9, 2007)

his response to me, his story just changed.



> I will explain to you. We sell Opus X cigars not from opened retail wood box. We receive cigars from fuente factory not in box and not have a cellophane on a lot of Opus X cigars. Also we sell Anjo's boxes sealed and Anejo in box have gold letters on cellophane . Yes it is impossible to buy cigars directly from a factory, but it does not concern to everything, we have channels.
> If you think that cigars not authentic, we can make for you detaild photo with high resolution of EVERY unit.
> Regards!


so i responded back to him offering him a few bucks to send me a fuente fuente and the xXx so that i can compare them to each other. we'll see what he says.


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## chippewastud79 (Sep 18, 2007)

barbourjay said:


> back at it again, mind you i don't have a problem with ebay selling. i do have a problem with passing fake goods.
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230211978770&_trksid=p2759.l1259


My try:

*Dear space-market,

*How come none of these "Opus X" have the "Fuente Fuente Opus X" gold lettering on them? Isn't that part of the collectiveness of the cigars? Thanks

*- chippewastud79*


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## hotreds (Dec 4, 2007)

Hmmm- I think the best thing is just to not buy cigars off E-bay. I did buy one Opus X therefrom- but I now realize I could have gotten it cheaper from one of the many on-line dealers. Can't say if it was fake or not, I have since purchased a few more from Holts, so I will be able to compare. One lives, and hopefully, learns! it IS eye-opening, once one gets into this hobby with more depth, that there are more than a few people selling fakes that don't even claim to be cubans! Caveat emptor, indeed!


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## barbourjay (Aug 9, 2007)

okay i've arranged to get a xXx and a fuente fuente for the sake of comparison. i'll keep everyone posted but with this coming from the DR it might take awhile.


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## moki (Jan 12, 2004)

barbourjay said:


> never bought opus on there :tu
> 
> here's his response to me asking him why there is no gold stamp on them.
> 
> funny how he refrences the same site that details release dates and not all of those cigars were original release cigars.


The guy is an idiot... no, I take that back... he's lying. Many of those vitolas were not part of the original release. There are so many things wrong with his statements, it is scary...


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## moki (Jan 12, 2004)

newcigarz said:


> INFORMATION FOR ALL PEOPLE AND COMPETITORS:
> 
> YOU DOUBT OF THAT BANDS NOT AUTHENTIC? CHECK UP OUR FEEDBACKS OF THOSE PEOPLE WHO HAS REALLY RECEIVED THE GOODS FROM US.
> 
> ...


I've no doubt that the *bands* are real. The cigars, however... he's full of shit.


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## daniyal (Oct 9, 2007)

moki said:


> _*"There absolutely are no Fuente seconds,"* Suarez said. " If they don't measure up to Arturo Fuente standards, *they are destroyed at the factory* or given to employees to smoke." _


So there is always a possibility that some employees got together to make some extra $$$


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## [email protected] (Jun 25, 2007)

this is great reading!!! The opus X is my favorite cigar. maybe we should offer to sell him some greycliffs (put greycliff bands on some pirates gold)

"Me sell you greycliff cigars for one box $300. you sell them for $500 easy. Make profit!"

(you have to get the broken english in there)


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## barbourjay (Aug 9, 2007)

okay everything is set. i have two cigars on the way from him.


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## [email protected] (Jun 25, 2007)

barbourjay said:


> okay everything is set. i have two cigars on the way from him.


I hope you didnt pay too much..........in the name of science!


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## moki (Jan 12, 2004)

daniyal said:


> So there is always a possibility that some employees got together to make some extra $$$


No, the employees never get cigars after they've been banded and cello'd


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## barbourjay (Aug 9, 2007)

[email protected] said:


> I hope you didnt pay too much..........in the name of science!


not that big of a deal.


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## rottenzombie (Jun 11, 2007)

[email protected] said:


> this is great reading!!! The opus X is my favorite cigar. maybe we should offer to sell him some greycliffs (put greycliff bands on some pirates gold)
> 
> "Me sell you greycliff cigars for one box $300. you sell them for $500 easy. Make profit!"
> 
> (you have to get the broken english in there)


:r:r 
Hay I thinked those Greycliffs are tasteing funny.you bastage..:r:r:r:r


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## [email protected] (Jun 25, 2007)

rottenzombie said:


> :r:r
> Hay I thinked those Greycliffs are tasteing funny.you bastage..:r:r:r:r


oops! you werent supposed to see that:r


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## barbourjay (Aug 9, 2007)

so he gives me the tracking number and then says this



> You can check tracking on USPS site, info about parcel will be updated after 5 days. Total shipping time about 10-12 days.
> Has sent Fuente Fuente Opus X and xXx with gold lettering on cellophane. Now all Opus X have gold lettering at us.
> Regards!


this is definately a scam. hopefully i can get more info once they arrive and i do the comparison.


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## kdhoffma (May 22, 2007)

Someone used buy-it-now for $400, and then immediately left positive feedback for the seller. Who does that? Just keeps getting better, doesn't it.


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## gnukfu (Dec 19, 2007)

kdhoffma said:


> Someone used buy-it-now for $400, and then immediately left positive feedback for the seller. Who does that? Just keeps getting better, doesn't it.


I have never purchased anything on EBay but can the feedback thing be rigged so that if you have enough friends/acquaintances they can give you good feedback?


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## DennisP (May 13, 2007)

gnukfu said:


> I have never purchased anything on EBay but can the feedback thing be rigged so that if you have enough friends/acquaintances they can give you good feedback?


Yes, at some cost though. eBay charges for transactions, so you would be charged for a fake sale.

I suppose for scam artists it can be worth it.


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## barbourjay (Aug 9, 2007)

kdhoffma said:


> Someone used buy-it-now for $400, and then immediately left positive feedback for the seller. Who does that? Just keeps getting better, doesn't it.


i already contacted the person who bought them and told them they are fakes. no response so far.


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## Todd W (Jan 9, 2008)

kdhoffma said:


> Someone used buy-it-now for $400, and then immediately left positive feedback for the seller. Who does that? Just keeps getting better, doesn't it.


 This is shill bidding at its finest. Know it when you see it -- it happens all the time. You would have to be sitting on this dudes lap to analyze it any more than you already have. Obviously no real payment was ever sent, and the feedback was left (too) quickly because the guys just a lazy scammer that's on to his next auction.


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## [email protected] (Jun 25, 2007)

has anyone contacted ebay and explained that they are fakes...I know he is selling the "bands", but still...I hate to see the good name of fuente ruined ....not to mention innocent people being cheated!!!


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## barbourjay (Aug 9, 2007)

[email protected] said:


> has anyone contacted ebay and explained that they are fakes...I know he is selling the "bands", but still...I hate to see the good name of fuente ruined ....not to mention innocent people being cheated!!!


already have about the fraud. they probably won't do anything.


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