# Oust fans...Needed or not?



## Richter35 (Jan 10, 2009)

Hey Guys-

I just bought a new cabinet style humidor (much like the verona or pienza) and was wondering if the Oust fans are really needed or not. I understand what they do, but I wasnt sure if they really make a difference since the Heartfelt beads seem to maintain the RH levels so well. 

Also, if I have 6 levels to my humidor is a fan on each level needed, or would 1 or 2 be enough?

Any input would be much appreciated! :yo:

cheers


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## karmaz00 (Dec 5, 2007)

well all i would say it would be inportant to focus on consistant humidity on each levels. so have some beads on each level...maybe have 2 digital hygro's (calibrated) one for top one for bottom...i have 1 oust fan in my coolers, but its smaller then your humi. you will get some more info on the oust fans from another botl...good luck man, sweet humi


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## Shervin (May 29, 2008)

One fan should be enough, from what I understand you don't want too much circulation, allowing the humidity to settle and permeate. 

One fan is all you need to keep a constant (yet light) flow going, distributing humidity at a quicker rate.


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## SmoknTaz (Jun 18, 2008)

Congrats on the cabinet and like Karmaz00 said, consistency is key. Make sure you post some pics when you have this baby up and running!


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## ChokeOnSmoke (Oct 30, 2007)

Without any circulation, the humidity will be higher on the top of the cabinet then the bottom (humid air rises). So it would make sense to me to have the fan(s) on the top to circulate the more humid air back down. But I suppose if there is a fan blowing at any level in the cabinet it would probably distribute the air evenly?? Just my 2 cents.


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## mrreindeer (Sep 4, 2008)

On a sidenote...I never really understood why folks with Vino's (now I'm one of 'em) would add Oust fans since there's a fan at the back of the unit....why is that?


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## Architeuthis (Mar 31, 2007)

Squid® uses a big square box of a humidor, and I keep one Oust fan in it at the top. I keep the fan pointing down (even though it's pointing at cigars) and on the yearly occasions when I remove all 900 or so sticks to re-organize, there's never been any mold or fuzzies on the stuff at the bottom. And here's a free tip for the Newbies... do *not* put the fragrance module in the fan!!! <G>


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## mrreindeer (Sep 4, 2008)

Architeuthis said:


> do *not* put the fragrance module in the fan!!! <G>


But hey Squid, what if you're an Acid smoker? :rotfl:


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## crazyhorse67 (Mar 18, 2008)

mrreindeer said:


> On a sidenote...I never really understood why folks with Vino's (now I'm one of 'em) would add Oust fans since there's a fan at the back of the unit....why is that?


i need two for each vino up here in wyoming for a couple of reasons. Since i live up here i don't need to have the unit running for most of the year, only in the hottest part of the summer. Any time you can turn it off its better. I've found that even with the drain plugged, the main vino fan can dry out any cigars that are right in front of it, especially if it needs to run heavy. Even though the humidity level looks good, it will still dry them out. You can move them out of the way, but the fan is pretty big and i pack mine full. Which brings up one of the reasons i need two fans. With the vino full, one oust fan doesnt quite give me the consistent levels I want from top to bottom. I have one at the top pointing down, hidden in the back, then one on the bottom blowing towards the glass since the front part of the vino is where i was getting inconsistencies. Another reason you want two is something i learned the hard way...when i first started i only had one in each unit and one of the batteries went out. Since the vinos hold humidity so well (i run 2 lbs heartfelt beads and only have to re-water every month or two), and since i have 4 vinos and some of them don't even get opened , i didn't notice, and by the time i did i had mold on some choice smokes. Two fans doesn't necessarily solve this (you still have to change the batteries), but gives me a little more time to reallize it before i'm all spored up.


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## crazyhorse67 (Mar 18, 2008)

Shervin said:


> One fan should be enough, from what I understand you don't want too much circulation, allowing the humidity to settle and permeate.
> 
> One fan is all you need to keep a constant (yet light) flow going, distributing humidity at a quicker rate.


also, the Oust fans are not constant, or one might be enough. They only come on for a few seconds every so many minutes. That's why it's hard to look at them and tell if they are out of batteries. However, this does keep the battery costs down. I take the batteries out in the summer when the vino fan is running and move the smokes out of the path of the airflow. I have seen some where a small computer fan was installed, that would be the best as long as you could control the speed.


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## mrreindeer (Sep 4, 2008)

crazyhorse67 said:


> and since i have 4 vinos


Holy cow! Thanks Monkey Boy! :tu Since I'm in L.A., I keep mine running all the time. Makes sense that since yours aren't running all the time, you'd throw in those little guys.


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## tx_tuff (Jun 16, 2007)

I have a cabinet, beads on each level and a Oasis at the bottom. I have 3 digital hygro's (calibrated) bottom, middle and top. Besides the fan in the Oasis I don't have any other fans in it and everything works great.


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## e-man (Jan 5, 2009)

You may prefer to have different zones.

Most people here will tell you that 65% is their preferred rH to smoke at. Conventional wisdom says that 70 Degrees at 70% is optimal for aging.

Since moisture rises, you could age sticks at the top, and keep your ready-to-smoke sticks at the bottom. Just a thought.


I use a temperature controlled computer fan in my cooler. It is designed to save energy and stay quiet. When the temp is low, is spins slow. The fan speed increases as temperature rises. Since it's always relatively cool in my humidor, it runs at a very low speed. I let it run 24-7.


I've discovered that when it is difficult to get my rH up, the fan can help. I let the fan blow directly over my humidifier, and I get a few more % on my rH. This works well with beads, but sent my rH out of control when I was using PG solution.


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## Coop D (Oct 19, 2008)

Squid,

Need a pic of how you have your fan up top mounted to point down


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## Architeuthis (Mar 31, 2007)

Coop D said:


> Squid,
> 
> Need a pic of how you have your fan up top mounted to point down


It's not mounted at all... It's just set on top of the cigars pointing down...


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## Richter35 (Jan 10, 2009)

so basically since moisture rise, if I have 6 levels to my humi I should put 1 fan on the top shelf and 1 on the 2nd shelf pointing down or do you want 1 on the bottom pointing up and 1 on top pointing down?

Not sure if any of this really matter but I figured I wouldnt take any chances! Thanks for the help, guys.

cheers


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## crazyhorse67 (Mar 18, 2008)

you just want good circulation, the best way to figure it out is to put hygros on different levels to see if your setup is doing the job. if not, move things around until they do.


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## Snake Hips (May 30, 2008)

Since when does humidity rise? It diffuses. Oust fans are good for keeping the distribution even, but they're pretty useless if you have a very large humidor, since they move very little air very little of the time. For a cabinet humidor, I would simply distribute your beads evenly, because having a cabinet gives me the impression that you'll be aging cigars, in which case as little air flow as possible is needed. For long-term aging (very long term), low humidity and temperature is the key (in the 50s for both) as well as basically NO air flow or exchange.


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## mc2712 (Mar 14, 2008)

I'm going to get one for the summer its get humid and hot here Houston, to help me regulate the humidity and temp.


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## e-man (Jan 5, 2009)

Snake Hips said:


> Since when does humidity rise? It diffuses.


Since the dawn of time. Evaporation wouldn't occur if moisture wasn't lighter than air at the same temperature. Condensation occurs at the top of an enclosed space because that's where the majoprity of the moisture goes.

I know it seems counter intuitive, as air + moisture would seem heavier as there is more matter. When you fly to a a humid climate, your first breath when you get off the plane feels like you're breathing pudding. Although the air is DENSER (not heavier), the moisture doesn't bond with the molecules in the air. Moisture fills in the space between the existing molecules. Air expands as is get warmer, which is why warm air hold more moisture than cold air.

For purposes of explanation, let's just compare H2O with the O2 we breath. Hydrogen is the lightest element with a molecular mass of 1.0079 g/mol. Oxygen has a molecular mass of 16.00 g/mol. Than means that Oxygen is 16 time heaver than Hydrogen. It is easy to see that 2 hydrogen atoms bonded to 1 oxygen atom would be much lighter than 2 oxygen atoms. It's almost half the wieght.

So, just like a helium baloon, moisture will rise because it is lighter. Of course, through the power of osmosis, it will ALSO try to equalize in it's environment as you noted. Just the same, if you pop a helium baloon the helium will also disapate into the air, but will still tend to rise. Just realize that there are fewer variables in a closed system compared to the open air (pressure systems, temperature variations, wind, cosmic rays, etc).

Simply put, if moisture diffused in all directions, then you could put all your humidification in one place. But we all know that you need to spread it to all levels of the cabinet to get consistent rH. Desktop humidors have little height, so they can utilize a central humidifier...but you should still rotate your stock for consistency.

A humidor is a closed system. So long as you stir and mix all the air, you can point you fan(s) anywhere you want. If there is stagnant air, then you will have pockets of high/low humidity. Ideally, you should spread your fans out for maximum effect.

Here's a much more scientific explanation of relative humidity if anyone is interested:

Relative humidity - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## sofaman (Jun 20, 2007)

As far as I am concerned Oust fans just dont push enough air!!! do yourself a favor and use a computer fan with a variable speed switch they push alot more air and you will be happy with the results:thumb:


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## Snake Hips (May 30, 2008)

e-man said:


> Since the dawn of time. Evaporation wouldn't occur if moisture wasn't lighter than air at the same temperature. Condensation occurs at the top of an enclosed space because that's where the majoprity of the moisture goes.
> 
> I know it seems counter intuitive, as air + moisture would seem heavier as there is more matter. When you fly to a a humid climate, your first breath when you get off the plane feels like you're breathing pudding. Although the air is DENSER (not heavier), the moisture doesn't bond with the molecules in the air. Moisture fills in the space between the existing molecules. Air expands as is get warmer, which is why warm air hold more moisture than cold air.
> 
> ...


Well I never was too good at science, but that sounds good enough to me.

But one thing...there's no osmosis involved


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## BigBuddha76 (Mar 15, 2005)

Snake Hips said:


> But one thing...there's no osmosis involved


osmosis involves a barrier of some type...he's really referring to diffusion


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## Snake Hips (May 30, 2008)

BigBuddha76 said:


> osmosis involves a barrier of some type...he's really referring to diffusion


Exactly...specifically a membrane.


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## e-man (Jan 5, 2009)

great- Now I have to re-take 7th grade science. I guess I paid too much attention to my teachers chest, instead of what she was saying.

Well the point is that a concentration in one area of a solution will ATTEMPT to equalize throughout the entire solution, but other factors may prevent that from happening (eg. gravity). Mechanical agitation is usually enough to overcome these factors.


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## Richter35 (Jan 10, 2009)

Thanks for all the input guys...it was definitely a big help! 

I found a great deal on ebay for a lot of 6 Oust fans ($4 a piece) so I just went ahead and got them. Im not exactly sure how much my humidor really needs, but I can put 1 fan on each shelf now If I so chose.

I know these fans arent as strong as a computer fan or something so im thinking 1 per shelf may not be terrible. Is this a good idea or would 6 fans in a (72x24x18) humidor be too much?

Thanks again!
cheers


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## e-man (Jan 5, 2009)

Richter35 said:


> I know these fans arent as strong as a computer fan or something so im thinking 1 per shelf may not be terrible. Is this a good idea or would 6 fans in a (72x24x18) humidor be too much?
> 
> Thanks again!
> cheers


Ideally, I would place one at the top facing down, and one at the bottom facing up. That would guarantee that the top and bottom air are exchanging. Then, distribute the remaining fans evenly throughout the cabinet to make sure there are no dead spots. Not sure if this is possible with your setup.

Since you have a cabinet, I assume most of your stuff is in boxes anyway, so one on each shelf shouldn't be a problem. Some would suggest leaving your singles alone. If you're worried about too much wind, put a battery in the first fan, wait 30 seconds, then install the battery in the next fan...repeat. Since they only run for 15 seconds, they won't run at the same time.

If you use 2 hygrometers, you will find out pretty fast if you are getting even humidity at the top and bottom. Adjust as needed.


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## RicoPuro (Sep 24, 2008)

e-man said:


> Ideally, I would place one at the top facing down, and one at the bottom facing up. That would guarantee that the top and bottom air are exchanging. Then, distribute the remaining fans evenly throughout the cabinet to make sure there are no dead spots. Not sure if this is possible with your setup.
> 
> Since you have a cabinet, I assume most of your stuff is in boxes anyway, so one on each shelf shouldn't be a problem. Some would suggest leaving your singles alone. If you're worried about too much wind, put a battery in the first fan, wait 30 seconds, then install the battery in the next fan...repeat. Since they only run for 15 seconds, they won't run at the same time.
> 
> If you use 2 hygrometers, you will find out pretty fast if you are getting even humidity at the top and bottom. Adjust as needed.


I got a large cabinet (tower of Power) with a Hydra Comercial series at the bottom and two out fans in the upper section. Got about 2 lbs of Hearfeld beads distributed evenly in the cabinet. I keep most of my boxes in the upper section. The RH in the bottom is dead-on 65%. The RH in the upper part is about 62%. I am not really panicking about it but I am not sure if I understand the difference in RH given what appears to be a decent set-up.


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## Shervin (May 29, 2008)

I've got my humidor in the center with container holding beads. I figure that over time it will distribute evenly since I don't go into the bottom often, when it begins to fill out a bit more I'll prob add the Oust. The hygro reads 72 cause I was re watering the container that day and it hadn't leveled off yet.


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## e-man (Jan 5, 2009)

RicoPuro said:


> I got a large cabinet (tower of Power) with a Hydra Comercial series at the bottom and two out fans in the upper section. Got about 2 lbs of Hearfeld beads distributed evenly in the cabinet. I keep most of my boxes in the upper section. The RH in the bottom is dead-on 65%. The RH in the upper part is about 62%.


Sounds like you're still not getting enough circulation, or your hygrometers aren't calibrated. Make sure you are moving air up and down to get all the levels to equalize. I suggest one fan pointing UP on one side, and one fan pointing DOWN on the other. You can mount one near the top and one near the bottom. Or you could mount both in the middle.

Since you have the Hydra, I would suggest buying the external fan kit for about $10-15. It will move much more air than the Oust fans, and will also run longer. The basic kit consists of a wiring harness, a splitter and a small brushless fan (a.k.a. computer fan).

If you need MORE POWER, you can attach up to 3 external fans to the Hydra kit, AND/OR you can buy bigger fans. A 120mm wide brushless fan moves twice the air as an 80mm fan AND runs quieter because it spins slower. I don't know what size the Hydra fans are, but they look smaller than 80mm wide. You can still use your Oust fans to stir things up.


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## RicoPuro (Sep 24, 2008)

My hygrometers are salt-tested. What you are describing makes perfect sense. I might have to go ahead and invest in the Hydra external fans.

Jorge


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