# Wineador Drain Plug?



## Stradawhovious (Oct 17, 2012)

My new wineador is really nice, but after having covered the drain with tape (to try to keep the unit sealed for RH purposes) it has an issue. It develops a decent amount of condensation. Not so much that it floods the unit, but enough so that with the drain plugged with duct tape, in the evening I have to mop it out wih a paper towel. Without the drain pluged, the condensation would drain into a fixed tray in the rear/bottom of the unit, left to evaporate into the air.

Not really that big of an issue, but I would like to think that I could do better.

So with that in mind, riddle me this.....

Why not plug the hole with a paper towel or a sponge? In my limited brainial capacity, it seems that once damp, the paper towel would make a good vapor barrier, but through the scieneology of capillary attraction, it would still allow the condensation to drain to the tray underneath. No fuss, no muss...... done and done.

Now, to all you seasoned wineadorians..... where is the flaw in my logic? I know its there, but I can't find it.


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## Jfred (Jun 7, 2012)

Would the paper towel mold from being wet all the time?


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## Stradawhovious (Oct 17, 2012)

Jfred said:


> Would the paper towel mold from being wet all the time?


Possibly..... but paper towel is cheap, and replacing it would take all of 30 seconds. I figure replacing the plug once a week would beat mopping up condensation once a day.


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## Jfred (Jun 7, 2012)

Lots of people just use tape to direct condensation into a tub of beads or KL to absorb the moisture. I have a media bag of KL laying across the back bottom corner of my cooler hoping it'll soak up any condensation. But i just got my cooler today so IDK how much condensation ill get.


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## Stradawhovious (Oct 17, 2012)

Jfred said:


> Lots of people just use tape to direct condensation into a tub of beads or KL to absorb the moisture. I have a media bag of KL laying across the back bottom corner of my cooler hoping it'll soak up any condensation. But i just got my cooler today so IDK how much condensation ill get.


My concern is that the condensation being added to the humidifying agent (whatever you choose to use) would eventually oversaturate the medium, causing more High RH issues.

I get a lot of condensation. I can only assume that in the summer, with a high ambient RH I will get even more.

I could be overthinking this.........


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## stonecutter2 (Jul 12, 2012)

What's the ambient temperature in the room with the wineador?

What temperature do you have the wineador set to chill to?


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## Jfred (Jun 7, 2012)

my guess is that if your rh starts to raise then just add more dry beads or kl. i have 3 media bags of kl in my winador right now. im hoping its enough. im more worried about it running more in the summer lowering the humidity. but i guess i will find out when yhe time comes lol.


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## stonecutter2 (Jul 12, 2012)

Stradawhovious said:


> My concern is that the condensation being added to the humidifying agent (whatever you choose to use) would eventually oversaturate the medium, causing more High RH issues.
> 
> I get a lot of condensation. I can only assume that in the summer, with a high ambient RH I will get even more.
> 
> I could be overthinking this.........


I think you are overthinking it, but that's okay because I did the same thing when I set up my little wineador 

My wineador is in my basement, where it's usually around 64-68 degrees with 58% RH. I have the wineador set to 65 and it's never generated much condensation, except for when it was first running. My guess is that's because it only had to cool from 68 to 65 degrees, and in that temperature swing not much moisture would condense out of the air.

Since your wineador should have a good seal, it will essentially have it's own microclimate that over time should only waver slightly, from opening the wineador or whatever. I suspect you're getting condensation because the wineador is doing it's initial cooling (from ambient temp/humidity) and excess moisture inside is getting condensed as a result. If you keep the settings as-is, there's only so much moisture that is going to be able to condense out of the air because the cooler is sealed, and the humidifier in there will only generate so much humidity.

Keep sopping up the condensation for the next few days, and see if the amount generated is reduced. I think it will reduce to nothing. If the condensation continues to happen, set your wineador temperature higher gradually, one degree after another, and see if that helps. Eventually when the temperature stabilizes, the humidity will as well, and you shouldn't have little puddles of condensation (certainly not enough to saturate humidifying media). There should only be a finite amount of moisture in the air to condense, *unless* you have a major leak in your wineador's seal. At some point, the temp/humidity will stabilize, and when the cooler kicks in, it will only have to cool by like 1 degree...then it will shut off.


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## stonecutter2 (Jul 12, 2012)

Also, paper towel is a bad idea because even if the moisture inside the wineador isn't likely to generate mold because it's distilled water or propylene glycol, the exterior surface of the paper towel would be exposed and would eventually mold...which would then grow through the paper towel and into your wineador.

I really think that once the wineador stabilizes in temp/humidity, you won't see much condensation. If you do, turn the temp up a bit.


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## Stradawhovious (Oct 17, 2012)

stonecutter2 said:


> What's the ambient temperature in the room with the wineador?
> 
> What temperature do you have the wineador set to chill to?


Right now ambient temp is 68-70 degrees, I have the temp in the unit set to 63 on the display, which gives me a constant 65 degrees.


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## stonecutter2 (Jul 12, 2012)

Stradawhovious said:


> Right now ambient temp is 68-70 degrees, I have the temp in the unit set to 63 on the display, which gives me a constant 65 degrees.


Ok, cool. How long has the wineador been running? If only for a couple of days, see if the condensation eventually go away/dries up. Mine did once the wineador was stabilized. But, it sounds like you're cooling off the contents of the wineador 3-5 degrees cooler than ambient temperature. That would certainly create some condensation initially.

If you keep getting little puddles, I'd recommend setting the unit to like 66 degrees. Then the cooler's internal temp should be like 68. This should only be nudging the temp down a couple degrees from ambient, so it shouldn't have to run very often and it also won't run very long. That means it will have less time for condensation to build up while it's cooling.

I felt like my wineador should be mostly for maintaining humidity level, with it's superior seal on the door. The temperature control is just a little bonus, and I don't get to greedy with it  I almost kept my wineador unplugged, but feared a potential for musty smells and the lack of air flow when the fan wouldn't occasionally turn on.


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## Gdaddy (Sep 20, 2012)

Can you raise the temperature to 66 degrees? This should help with the problem.


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## StogieNinja (Jul 29, 2009)

Here's what I did initially:










The little plastic flap let the water drip into a tray of KL. I didn't end up needing it, as I never get condensation.


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## Stradawhovious (Oct 17, 2012)

I can......


I will give it a shot. Good to know this evens out over a while. I just assumed it would be an ongoing thing.

Thanks folks!


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## Stradawhovious (Oct 17, 2012)

Jfred said:


> my guess is that if your rh starts to raise then just add more dry beads or kl. i have 3 media bags of kl in my winador right now. im hoping its enough. im more worried about it running more in the summer lowering the humidity. but i guess i will find out when yhe time comes lol.


This is my issue as well. Rigth now I'm running just gel crystals. I will be rethinking my strategy and getting some Beads (or more likely KL) soon.


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## Herf N Turf (Dec 31, 2008)

I bought a pack of corks from Michael's craft store to plug the tube from the inside and cut a sponge to fit snugly in the drain recess. It never has enough condensate to drip and the water eventually evaporates back into the system. I run my fridge a tad on the cold side, so no mold.


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## stonecutter2 (Jul 12, 2012)

Stradawhovious said:


> This is my issue as well. Rigth now I'm running just gel crystals. I will be rethinking my strategy and getting some Beads (or more likely KL) soon.


I have used the silica litter from Walmart, called MiMi, with great success in my coolerdor.


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## Jfred (Jun 7, 2012)

I didnt even think of using a cork to plug the drain plug!!! Should of been a no brainier considering the thing is a wine cooler haha. Ill have to get a cork because the drain plug in my cooler was hard to seal because its not flat.


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## Gdaddy (Sep 20, 2012)

Gel crystals will try to achieve 70% rh.

Kitty litter can be many different moisture levels. The crystals don't know what RH level you want and need to be acclimated to a certain level. For example... if the RH in the humidor is holding at 70% then the KL is holding that much moisture. But lets say you want to lower the RH to say 65%. Just adding more KL won't do it for you. You need to remove the moisture from the KL just as you would by wringing out a sponge in order to go to a lower humidity. You can remove moisture from the crystals by Microwaving them or baking them or placing them in the freezer. 

If my RH starts to creep up I take the crystals out and place them in a bowl and set them in the microwave for 30 seconds. (Time will vary depending on the amount of KL.) Remove from microwave and actually get steam evaporating from them when stirred with a spoon. Let them cool for 5 or 10 minutes and return to humidor. Let the RH stabilize for a few days and see where it's at. If still to high repeat procedure. If it's too low place a crumpled damp paper towel. In just a few minutes you'll see the RH start to climb. Keep doing this until the desired RH is achieved.

Hope this helps to understand that KL crystals don't have a pre-set RH and they need to be trained.


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## Jfred (Jun 7, 2012)

I thought the KL always trys to stay at 68% I thought it absorbed and released moisture?


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## TonyBrooklyn (Jan 28, 2010)

Stradawhovious said:


> My new wineador is really nice, but after having covered the drain with tape (to try to keep the unit sealed for RH purposes) it has an issue. It develops a decent amount of condensation. Not so much that it floods the unit, but enough so that with the drain plugged with duct tape, in the evening I have to mop it out wih a paper towel. Without the drain pluged, the condensation would drain into a fixed tray in the rear/bottom of the unit, left to evaporate into the air.
> 
> Not really that big of an issue, but I would like to think that I could do better.
> 
> ...


Plug the drain let the condensation drip into a pan of Silica Kitty Litter done deal!


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## Gdaddy (Sep 20, 2012)

Jfred said:


> I thought the* KL always trys to stay at 68%* I thought it absorbed and released moisture?


I don't find that to be true. I can take the KL to just about any level of moisture. Once it stabilizes at a certain moisture level (that I determine) the added mass of KL helps maintain that RH in the humidor. It requires small adjustments if the humidity should change up or down. Totally tweakable.

It's also evident that KL does NOT like direct contact with water. It sizzles like pop rocks and it changes it's form. Adding moisture by placing a wet paper towel on a shelf and let the moisture release into the air is much more KL friendly than misting...imho.


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## Stradawhovious (Oct 17, 2012)

Gdaddy said:


> I don't find that to be true. I can take the KL to just about any level of moisture. Once it stabilizes at a certain moisture level (that I determine) the added mass of KL helps maintain that RH in the humidor. It requires small adjustments if the humidity should change up or down. Totally tweakable.
> 
> It's also evident that KL does NOT like direct contact with water. It sizzles like pop rocks and it changes it's form. Adding moisture by placing a wet paper towel on a shelf and let the moisture release into the air is much more KL friendly than misting...imho.


NOt to beat a dead horse....... (but I'm probably gonna do it anyways)

Have we decided, as a community, that the blue crystals in the unscented kitty litter don't have an impact on the humidor or sticks? I saw a debate on that in one of the several humdred kitty litter threads, but never saw the resolution.

The reason I ask is because the stuff I'm using in my rifle crate/coffee table does have a distinct odor, even though the package said scent free. I still have a bunch of that left.

I'd hate to have a couple hundred sticks that smell and taste like I just changed the catbox.


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## yellowv (Dec 24, 2011)

I would turn the unit up to 65 and use KL. It should balance right out and with your ambient temp the cooler shouldn't have to work much at all to stay around 65 or so. The only time I get condensation is if my power goes out as the NewAir resets to 55. When it runs hard it will build condensation. Other than that it stays right around 64% and 66 degrees with 0 condensation.


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## slap1914 (Sep 14, 2012)

I covered the drain hole with two layers of duct tape and then put a media bag with KL over the tape. No condensation issues so far.


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## Gdaddy (Sep 20, 2012)

Stradawhovious said:


> NOt to beat a dead horse....... (but I'm probably gonna do it anyways)
> 
> Have we decided, as a community, that the blue crystals in the unscented kitty litter don't have an impact on the humidor or sticks? I saw a debate on that in one of the several humdred kitty litter threads, but never saw the resolution.
> 
> ...


I use Equisicat and removed all the blue crystals. (maybe it doesn't matter) but mine don't have any odor what so ever. If it does have an odor I wouldn't use it as the odor will seep into the cigars.


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## Jfred (Jun 7, 2012)

Why did you remove the blue crystals?


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## Gdaddy (Sep 20, 2012)

Jfred said:


> Why did you remove the blue crystals?


I just didn't like them or the look of them. It reminded me of some air freshener enhancement though they seem odorless. Was purely physiological on my part. It doesn't look like cat litter and now it's all white crystals.


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## Jfred (Jun 7, 2012)

But arent the blue and white crystals different? One absorbs and one releases moisture?


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## yellowv (Dec 24, 2011)

slap1914 said:


> I covered the drain hole with two layers of duct tape and then put a media bag with KL over the tape. No condensation issues so far.


Your going to get mold. Ask me how I know.


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## Jfred (Jun 7, 2012)

You will get mold if you cover the drain plug with tape and put KL over it?


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## Gdaddy (Sep 20, 2012)

Jfred said:


> But arent the blue and white crystals different? One absorbs and one releases moisture?


I think the blue ones do the same thing as the white ones. Absorb moisture. My 'all white crystals' work just fine and they can be adjusted to whatever RH I want.


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## Gdaddy (Sep 20, 2012)

Whats the problem of just raising the temperature in the cooler to 66 or 67 degrees?


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## RetiredNavyIC (Jun 3, 2011)

Gdaddy said:


> Whats the problem of just raising the temperature in the cooler to 66 or 67 degrees?


^^ This. 
I set my Newair to the highest setting and never see condensation in a near tropical climate (South Texas).


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## yellowv (Dec 24, 2011)

When I first put together my wineador I was getting a little condensation over the plugged drain hole. I took some KL and cut a media bag to make a little sack and sat it on the hole. Within a couple of weeks I had a sack of mold. Luckily I caught it early and it was localized to the spot. I got rid of the sack and cleaned the spot and never saw mold again. As I said earlier if your ambient temps are not too high and you run your wineador at 65 degrees you will see very little condensation if any. Best just to leave it be. I usually just check mine every couple of weeks. Most of the times it's dry back there. Sometimes there's a tiny bit of condensation that I will dry with a paper towel. I find if I try to set mine at anything lower than 65 it will run too much causing condensation and also problems stabilizing the humidity. Mine has been rock solid for a good 6 months now at least.


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## Jfred (Jun 7, 2012)

My wineador is set to 66F but my Xikar hydrometer says it holds steady at 64. I haven't noticed any condensation in mine yet.


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## stonecutter2 (Jul 12, 2012)

Gdaddy said:


> I don't find that to be true. I can take the KL to just about any level of moisture. Once it stabilizes at a certain moisture level (that I determine) the added mass of KL helps maintain that RH in the humidor. It requires small adjustments if the humidity should change up or down. Totally tweakable.
> 
> It's also evident that KL does NOT like direct contact with water. It sizzles like pop rocks and it changes it's form. Adding moisture by placing a wet paper towel on a shelf and let the moisture release into the air is much more KL friendly than misting...imho.


Heartfelt beads also sizzle like pop rocks when they're being charged. I think that's just the silica rapidly absorbing liquid and expanding, it's not that the silica doesn't like water. With kitty litter, I've taken a teaspoon of distilled water at a time and dripped it into the kitty litter. I use plastic baby food jars (the rectangular kind, i don't use glass jars) so the water won't leak out. I then let the kitty litter sit in the cooler to see what % RH it reached. In my case it was a bit too dry still, only getting to about 61%. So i added just a bit more water and 4 more "jars" of kitty litter. It stays at 68% or so.


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## stonecutter2 (Jul 12, 2012)

Stradawhovious said:


> NOt to beat a dead horse....... (but I'm probably gonna do it anyways)
> 
> Have we decided, as a community, that the blue crystals in the unscented kitty litter don't have an impact on the humidor or sticks? I saw a debate on that in one of the several humdred kitty litter threads, but never saw the resolution.
> 
> ...


I don't have a link to the discussion, but the blue crystals don't seem to do anything other than make it look like it's capable of "doing" something. If your litter has an odor, it was likely mixed mistakenly with scented stuff. We have 2 cats and occassionally our unscented litter is scented. Litter is cheap, manufacturers make mistakes. I'd go find another bag rather than potentially mess up your sticks. The nose knows.


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## stonecutter2 (Jul 12, 2012)

Jfred said:


> But arent the blue and white crystals different? One absorbs and one releases moisture?


I believe they are both the same thing - one is simply dyed blue, the other is not.

Silica gel is excellent at absorbing moisture from the air, until such a point when it can no longer absorb more moisture (it's then saturated). Once it dries out a bit (other crystals absorb some of the moisture, you open your wineador/coolidor), it is capable of absorbing more moisture again.


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## Gdaddy (Sep 20, 2012)

Jfred said:


> My wineador is set to 66F but my Xikar hydrometer says it holds steady at 64. I haven't noticed any condensation in mine yet.


Interesting my wineador also shows it's temp @ 66 (high as it will go) but the Xicar shows 64. No way to calibrate the temperature so I don't know which one is correct. I did place a second hygrometer in there and it showed 65 degrees. So give or take I don't care as long as there is no condensation.


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## Gdaddy (Sep 20, 2012)

stonecutter2 said:


> Heartfelt beads also sizzle like pop rocks when they're being charged. I think that's just the silica rapidly absorbing liquid and expanding, it's not that the silica doesn't like water. With kitty litter, I've taken a teaspoon of distilled water at a time and dripped it into the kitty litter. I use plastic baby food jars (the rectangular kind, i don't use glass jars) so the water won't leak out. I then let the kitty litter sit in the cooler to see what % RH it reached. In my case it was a bit too dry still, only getting to about 61%. So i added just a bit more water and 4 more "jars" of kitty litter. It stays at 68% or so.


When they sizzle it appears they change form. They become white and crusty looking. I don't know if this reduces their effectiveness. I try to keep them in their original state.

By placing a damp sponge or moistened crumpled paper towel to increase RH seems to give more control at pin pointing the RH. I watch the hygrometer and when it reaches the correct RH I simply remove the sponge. I really nail it this way. I think misting is more of a guess at the moisture being introduced. Spray and hope instead of maintaining full control of when the exact desired level is reached.


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## yellowv (Dec 24, 2011)

Never go by the temp on the wineador. They are NEVER accurate. Mine reads 65 all the time and can be anywhere from 64 to 67 depending on ambient temp. They hygrometer wont be perfect, but it's much closer.


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