# Out of Stock on the rise



## Zeabed (Apr 23, 2009)

Along with Penzance, PS Balkan Supreme and Presbyterian Mixture, Squadron Leader is one of my top favorite English/Balkan blends. And, along with Penzance, PM, Escudo, SG BBF and several others, SL is currently listed as out-of-stock by some e-tailers. I'm down to five tins of SL but, luckily, I've been able to find some BBF, SL and Penzance listed as available in a couple of online shops and just ordered several tins of all of these. I'm not home free, however, as it's entirely possible that I'll be getting an email in the next few days advising me that one or more of these items are backordered. 

Is this stock depletion the result of a hoarding frenzy triggered by the recent legislation, or are there distribution, marketing and/or production problems? This latter possibility suggests itself, particularly considering that the shortage seems to be affecting mostly imported baccies... So what's the rumpus here? Should I start cultivating my own baccie and harvesting camel dung? :hurt:


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## Alpedhuez55 (Dec 16, 2005)

I know I was getting a ton of emails before SCHIP that made it sound a little worse than it actually ended up being. So I think a lot of people did stock up before the price increase even though the increase was modest, $1.0969 per pound to $2.8311 per pound. While it was a significant increase in taxes, it was not quite as bad as it could have been. RYO Cigarette Tobacco went from $1.0969 per pound to $24.78 per pound. That is a 2200% increase.

So I think there was a little misinformation going on by some retailers who were running big "SCHIP Sales"that actually led to a little hoarding. Plus in addition to the Fed changes, there are some states that have taken the opportunity to do their own tobacco tax increases and restrictions as well, like Washington State banning Imports and several states raising taxes again.


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## Zeabed (Apr 23, 2009)

Alpedhuez55 said:


> [...] So I think there was a little misinformation going on by some retailers who were running big "SCHIP Sales"that actually led to a little hoarding. Plus in addition to the Fed changes, there are some states that have taken the opportunity to do their own tobacco tax increases and restrictions as well, like Washington State banning Imports and several states raising taxes again.


Ah, the old domino theory ploy...! Missed it by _that_ much. The current dry spell goes beyond the SCHIP, however. For example, Escudo dried up just before July 1. Then came back again (that's when I got my backordered shipment). Now it seems to be on backorder again in several places. I expect this current tax frenzy to lead to a crisis in tobacco distribution, for all tobaccos - and sooner rather than later, what with state taxes riding the coattails of federal initiatives. What seems to be building up is the government version of mass hysteria, complete with lynch mob mentality. What else now?


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## afilter (Oct 9, 2008)

I noticed the same on my last order SL was not available. Hope this changes.


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## SmokinJohnny (Jan 21, 2009)

There could be several contributing factors such as the recent hoarding like you say, the time it takes tobacco producers to get orders into hands of etailers, or cig smokers turning to pipe tobacco to get away from outrageous cig prices. The history of pipe smoking is several centuries old and has always been considered a gentle, harmless hobby. It seems today it's being scrutinized to death.
:dunno:


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## commonsenseman (Apr 18, 2008)

The fact that many retailers are running out of certain blends is, at the least, quite concerning. What does this mean for the future of pipe smoking? We have been turned into the "bad guys" recently. Smoking of all types is frowned upon. 
I'm sure there is more than one factor at work here though. 

One of the biggest is probably us pipe smokers hoarding tobacco for fear of our favorite blend running out. New state tobacco legislation will only make things worse, & since the FDA is now in charge of tobacco, flavored pipe tobacco could be in serious trouble very soon. 

I really feel sorry for pipe tobacco manufacturers, they're really getting screwed these days.


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## Alpedhuez55 (Dec 16, 2005)

Zeabed said:


> Ah, the old domino theory ploy...! Missed it by _that_ much. The current dry spell goes beyond the SCHIP, however. For example, Escudo dried up just before July 1. Then came back again (that's when I got my backordered shipment). Now it seems to be on backorder again in several places. I expect this current tax frenzy to lead to a crisis in tobacco distribution, for all tobaccos - and sooner rather than later, what with state taxes riding the coattails of federal initiatives. What seems to be building up is the government version of mass hysteria, complete with lynch mob mentality. What else now?


Well, there are other problems with distribution.

Dunhill is lacking US distribution which means people who can no longer get their favorite blend, are buying alternatives. Dunhill did have a good sized market share. So those people are looking to other blends and probably a lot went to some of the Samuel Gawith blends.

Escudo changed distributors from Lane to Villager/Stokkebeye. Hopefully once all the backorders are filled it should be readily available.

And didn't Lane discontinue a lot of things as well? That would effect the bulk market.

I do not know what is going on with Esoterica, but I know I have had issues getting Penzance a couple of times.

But I just think as states raise taxes on tobacco products, just like with cigars, you just get more people moving towards buying online. Those retailers may not have been ready for the increase in orders on the pipe side.


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## Zeabed (Apr 23, 2009)

Thank you, Al. It is indeed a Gordian Knot of market turbulence.


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## Mister Moo (Sep 8, 2005)

Alpedhuez55 said:


> Well, there are other problems with distribution.
> 
> Dunhill is lacking US distribution which means people who can no longer get their favorite blend, are buying alternatives...


I don't know if that's right or not but it sure sounds right.


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## rlaliberty (Jul 6, 2008)

just ordered some penzance from pipesandcigars! hope its not out of stock...


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## Alpedhuez55 (Dec 16, 2005)

Mister Moo said:


> I don't know if that's right or not but it sure sounds right.


Well, I read that a month or two ago on another site. Have not talked with anyone in the industry on it. I think there are a lot of tins in B&Ms, but some of the big Internet Dealers do not have any Dunhill anymore.

But Villager is the distributor for Orlik, who still makes Dunhill for the Euro market. So maybe they will take it over.


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## commonsenseman (Apr 18, 2008)

rlaliberty said:


> just ordered some penzance from pipesandcigars! hope its not out of stock...


Just ordered 2 tins from 4noggins..........here's hoping.


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## hunter1127 (Jan 11, 2006)

I agree w/ all listed above. Also our BOTLs and SOTLs in Washington State will no longer be able to buy tobacco on line after 7/26/09 due to new anti legislation passed in Jan. 09. Know many are trying to stock up before then. When will all the anti BS end!!!! Where is our freedom????


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## sounds7 (Mar 25, 2009)

esoterica tobacciana is no longer being distributed by Butera from what I was told. The new distributer is not with it and orders get behind.


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## Mad Hatter (Apr 8, 2007)

In addition to all the panic buying I think the end of the tobacco year is drawing close and stocks have been running low the last few years at this time even before SCHIP. Hey, we're a growing minority!


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## afilter (Oct 9, 2008)

hunter1127 said:


> I agree w/ all listed above. Also our BOTLs and SOTLs in Washington State will no longer be able to buy tobacco on line after 7/26/09 due to new anti legislation passed in Jan. 09. Know many are trying to stock up before then. When will all the anti BS end!!!! Where is our freedom????


Dunhill has been out for months at any major online vendor. If you find it locally buy it up. No guarantee we will see it again in the U.S.

What concerns me is other very popular brands/blend like squadron leader is out at mnay major online vendors. Unfortunately, I do not have any local vendors that deal in tins.


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## Mister Moo (Sep 8, 2005)

I feel very fortunate have 2 JR locations in reach.


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## afilter (Oct 9, 2008)

Mister Moo said:


> I feel very fortunate have 2 JR locations in reach.


unfortunately I do not travel asmuch as I did once. I hope to stumble into a smoke shop still holding a few tins of brands I have never had the opportunity to try.


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## Alpedhuez55 (Dec 16, 2005)

afilter said:


> Dunhill has been out for months at any major online vendor. If you find it locally buy it up. No guarantee we will see it again in the U.S.
> 
> What concerns me is other very popular brands/blend like squadron leader is out at mnay major online vendors. Unfortunately, I do not have any local vendors that deal in tins.


It seems Samuel Gawith has taken a lot of the Dunhill marketplace. They are both British and the tins came in at about the same pricepoint as Dunhill did. Dunhill left a void in the market. I am not sure how big their market share in the premium Tinned Tobacco market was, but I would think it was a pretty good share based on the Dunhill name alone.

But that said, Dunhill is not gone forever. They are going to be back. They are just too big a name to stay out of this market. It is still being made. They just need to get a new distributor up and running. I know there are several rumors out there, but there may be back by the end of the summer.


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## afilter (Oct 9, 2008)

Alpedhuez55 said:


> But that said, Dunhill is not gone forever. They are going to be back. They are just too big a name to stay out of this market. It is still being made. They just need to get a new distributor up and running. I know there are several rumors out there, but there may be back by the end of the summer.


As someone who has never had the opportunity to enjoy it, I hope you are right.

Does anyone know of any online vendors that have Squadron Leader in stock right now?


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## Zeabed (Apr 23, 2009)

afilter said:


> As someone who has never had the opportunity to enjoy it, I hope you are right.
> 
> Does anyone know of any online vendors that have Squadron Leader in stock right now?


I ordered 5 tins of SL from marscigars on Sunday. Last night I received their shipping confirmation.


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## commonsenseman (Apr 18, 2008)

I dunno if anyone has noticed this, but [email protected] & [email protected] both have penzance in stock.


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## Zeabed (Apr 23, 2009)

I just got the BBF and Penzance from 4noggins today. One of the Penzance tins was popped, but the contents were not dry. So I put some in my pipe and jarred the rest of the tin. What's with those SG rectagular tins? I've read about this sort of thing happening not infrequently with these particular tins. Guess now I'll have to check all my other SG tins I've got cellared.


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## commonsenseman (Apr 18, 2008)

Zeabed said:


> I just got the BBF and Penzance from 4noggins today. One of the Penzance tins was popped, but the contents were not dry. So I put some in my pipe and jarred the rest of the tin. What's with those SG rectagular tins? I've read about this sort of thing happening not infrequently with these particular tins. Guess now I'll have to check all my other SG tins I've got cellared.


Now you've got me worried about all of my SG tins.....any special way to tell if they're popped, or is it obvious? I checked them all & it looks like they're fine, but I'd hate to open them up in a year or two to find tobacco powder.


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## Zeabed (Apr 23, 2009)

commonsenseman said:


> Now you've got me worried about all of my SG tins.....any special way to tell if they're popped, or is it obvious? I checked them all & it looks like they're fine, but I'd hate to open them up in a year or two to find tobacco powder.


Good you brought it back up. I checked all my ET and SG rectangular tins (I heard they're both from the same supplier - don't really know). Some SL as well were popped and I jarred them. All these tins got to me with a dent in the exact same corner in all those popped tins. These are things that make you go hmmm....


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## commonsenseman (Apr 18, 2008)

Zeabed said:


> Good you brought it back up. I checked all my ET and SG rectangular tins (I heard they're both from the same supplier - don't really know). Some SL as well were popped and I jarred them. All these tins got to me with a dent in the exact same corner in all those popped tins. These are things that make you go hmmm....


:bump:

Thanks for the warning, I'll check for dents.


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## RJpuffs (Jan 27, 2008)

commonsenseman said:


> Now you've got me worried about all of my SG tins.....any special way to tell if they're popped, or is it obvious? I checked them all & it looks like they're fine, but I'd hate to open them up in a year or two to find tobacco powder.


When I get a new tin(s) in, I gently tug on the lids. Also sniffing the seal works. Luckily I haven't run into a busted seal yet.


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## Bigtotoro (Jul 5, 2009)

It benefits certain sections of the market to use fear to whip consumers into a frenzy. You can see a similar example happening with the guns/ammo industry over fear that the current administration may do something or other (which they have shown no indication of doing, and no I do not wish to make this thread political). Fear sells, I guess.


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## Zeabed (Apr 23, 2009)

commonsenseman said:


> :bump:
> 
> Thanks for the warning, I'll check for dents.


And thanks for the bump, commonsenseman.

One thing about C&D and GLP tins, they can take some dings without popping a leak (I think). I'd better stop now. That way madness lies.


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## sounds7 (Mar 25, 2009)

Every day it seems I find a tobacco out of Stock. Does anyone know why I can find Bjarne tobacco but the "Flake de Luxe is sold out everywhere. What gives?


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## sounds7 (Mar 25, 2009)

Cigars, Pipes, Pipe Tobacco, and Smoking Accessories at PipesandCigars.com informed me that Bjane tobacco is no longer in production and once the current stock is gone it is gone forever. I Guess since the passing of the great Bjarne Nielsen they discontinued his company. Sad loss. I will miss Flake De Luxe for sure.


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## uvacom (Oct 29, 2008)

I think the situation in Washington state is putting a damper on things right now. It seems that WA has a lot of pipe smokers (relatively) so there is a lot of cellaring going on right now. But in a broader sense, I think this is just the new state of affairs for pipe tobacco though. If you have a blend, and you like it, grab as much as you can when you can, because it will probably go out of stock quickly - especially if it is a popular blend.


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## QWKDTSN (Jun 7, 2009)

I'm starting to get a bit scared, I live in WA and only picked up pipe smoking, it is tough to commit to spending a few hundred bucks on tobaccos when I've only kind of gotten into it. But I'm here for another year and I don't want to have a hard time getting baccy if I do end up smoking a pipe often.

Plus I don't really know what I like right now, so it's kind of tough putting together a big Internet order of items that I can't smell or try.


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## skittles (Jul 11, 2009)

I can't find Sg FVF no where, of course now that I really like it.


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## RJpuffs (Jan 27, 2008)

skittles said:


> I can't find Sg FVF no where, of course now that I really like it.


4noggins had it this morning. SG often has hiccups in their production, their machinery is from the 17 century or thereabouts, when the oxen get tired of turning the machine, there is a shortage. :heh:


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## Stumptown (Jun 28, 2009)

QWKDTSN said:


> I'm starting to get a bit scared, I live in WA and only picked up pipe smoking, it is tough to commit to spending a few hundred bucks on tobaccos when I've only kind of gotten into it. But I'm here for another year and I don't want to have a hard time getting baccy if I do end up smoking a pipe often.
> 
> Plus I don't really know what I like right now, so it's kind of tough putting together a big Internet order of items that I can't smell or try.


I know what you mean, as this is my exact situation. I'm not TOO concerned, however, considering I have some pretty cool local shops not too far from me, but my suggestion would be to check some of the higher reviews on the tobbaccoreviews.com (is this right?) site and just give them a try. that way when you do manage to get in a B&M you wont be totally clueless.. or at least that's the idea


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## Old_Salt (Feb 25, 2008)

skittles said:


> I can't find Sg FVF no where, of course now that I really like it.


You might want to try GLP'S Union Square.
To my uneducated palate it's about a 90% match to FVF, and is readily available in 8 oz. tins direct from C & D.

I recently brought in 2 1/2 pounds to age while I smoke my remaining 13 tins of FVF


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## ghe-cl (Apr 9, 2005)

QWKDTSN said:


> I'm starting to get a bit scared, I live in WA and only picked up pipe smoking, it is tough to commit to spending a few hundred bucks on tobaccos when I've only kind of gotten into it. But I'm here for another year and I don't want to have a hard time getting baccy if I do end up smoking a pipe often.
> 
> Plus I don't really know what I like right now, so it's kind of tough putting together a big Internet order of items that I can't smell or try.


I realize you're a ways from Seattle, but you should get in touch with the Seattle Pipe Club (Seattle Pipe Club). I'm sure they could provide you with some tips and assistance.


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## DSturg369 (Apr 6, 2008)

Those of you in WA state can always make the trek to Lil' Brown Smoke Shack in Yakima.


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