# Humidity for long term(10+ year) storage



## landhoney (May 17, 2008)

Is drier better, more specifically 60% vs. 65%? Those are my two options at this point. I'm buying the beads for this: http://www.clubstogie.com/vb/showthread.php?t=167599 and need to decide yesterday. I am willing and able to put in the time. I've been sitting on a bottle of 1910 Madeira for a couple years so it'll reach 100, so patience I got.  I don't imagine you can buy half and half and split the difference right? Anyway, what I've read seems to indicate this is a matter of personal preference, but dealing more with smoking characteristics and not which benefits the flavor more down the road. Or am I overthinking this, and with RH% variation I'm worrying over only a couple points and thus nothing significant? 
I put this in the Habanos discussion because that is by and large what I will be storing/aging.


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## Darrell (Aug 12, 2007)

If you want the long term, I'd go with 70% RH.


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## landhoney (May 17, 2008)

Darrell said:


> If you want the long term, I'd go with 70% RH.


Interesting, thought this aged them quicker?


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## Darrell (Aug 12, 2007)

landhoney said:


> Interesting, thought this aged them quicker?


I don't know that's true? Someone else may need to chime in and confirm.


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## NCRadioMan (Feb 28, 2005)

60 or 65 is fine. I know folks that go with upper 50's and up to 70. I go with 65. Slower aging is better aging and nope, you can't mix beads. :tu


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## dvickery (Jan 1, 2000)

landhoney

i am sure others will have different opinions...for myself.

full boxes to age(decade or maybe longer)...humidor is set for 62%rh...i have no temperature control but it ranges from high 50's in the winter to high 60's in the summer.

something i do that others dont seem to do...i find 62%rh ages cigars well(and slowly) but the cigars are just a bit dry/papery at this humidity...open boxes i am smoking from i keep at 66% or 67%rh.

works for me.
derrek


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## landhoney (May 17, 2008)

dvickery said:


> landhoney
> 
> i am sure others will have different opinions...for myself.
> 
> ...


That's interesting, I was wondering about this. Instead of a dry box, you use a wet box. If you know what I mean. I was thinking that 60% may be a bit low for smoking and so I might need to bring the moisture level up. So 60% in the cabinet, and then into the 65% humidor for smoking. I will give it a whirl, need to start somewhere.


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## CoopnGA (Mar 12, 2008)

Landhoney,
I have no experience in the aging department so I can't help you much, but I would like to know what you plan on keeping these in for more than a decade. You mentioned a cabinet, do you have any pics or a link?

Coop


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## germantown rob (Sep 19, 2005)

One thing I keep coming across is consistency, there are many opinions on low humidity vs higher but keeping it the same for the long haul. 10 years is a long time but in cigar years it is not very long, 20 years is the start of the 3rd Maturation for some cigars. Learning and enjoying the process of aging is a wonderful journey and each step along the way has much to offer and it gets expensive. 5 boxes of the smokes you want to age works well :ss, 1 to smoke fresh, 2 to smoke after 5 years, 3 to smoke after 10 years, 4 to smoke after 20, and 5 to smoke when peaking.


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## Navydoc (Jan 26, 2005)

Think about sealing.......with or without vaccum. Lower temps are are also desired. Cigars have tannins just like wine and the higher the temp. the quicker the maturation....and the more unwanted by-products. Think low and slow. :2


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## jkim05 (Feb 26, 2007)

Low-temp, Low-humidity for optimal long-term aging, but if you're target is 10 years, there may be variations in preference as too slow aging, and they would not be peaking at that point in time. Ideally you'll come across a humidity and temp range that is satisfactory to you over time, but if you're asking for my two cents, I'd say stick between 60/60 and 65/65.


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## Addiction (May 8, 2007)

Everytime I post in this section of CS I prove my noobiness but here I go again. I keep my aging cigars at 60/60 and each bag is either sealed because it was shipped that way or I seal it here. I write the box info on a sticker and the expected removal date. I have the removal dates of each box on my PDA calender. 

I check my aging storage every 60 days for water condensation and refill it. 

Once a box removal date comes up Ill pull that box, remove the plastic and put it in normal storage, replacing it with another box to age. Some of my boxes have a little age on them (06 Cohiba EL, 03 Party Lusi) and some are babes (07 EDs). I got things marked for 10 years inside and some for only 3. 

Of course most of this is just theory, as most of these boxes have been in my possession about 90 days but I feel good about the method.


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## lenguamor (Nov 23, 2006)

Get 60% beads, you'll have an ideal environment for aging cigars slowly - which means you'll get the best out of them.

You'll end up with humidity between 57-62% depending on time of year; make sure you're controlling the temperature as well, they shouldn't be kept at higher than 65° or so. 60° is better.

That's for ideal conditions; your results will vary to the degree that you diverge from these guidelines. But don't fret too much - if you just come close to this, you're not likely to notice a _lot_ of difference in the end anyway. And your cigars will be fine.

PS: for a cab that size, you'll need about 3 lbs of beads.


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## boonedoggle (Jun 23, 2006)

I find that anything in the lower 60s tends to dry those cigars with long-term aging potential. I'd say 65-70RH, with no more than 70 degrees.:2


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## lenguamor (Nov 23, 2006)

boonedoggle said:


> I find that anything in the lower 60s tends to dry those cigars with long-term aging potential. I'd say 65-70RH, with no more than 70 degrees.:2


Depends on the cigar.

Some non-premium non-Cubans respond much better to 65%. But this being the Habanos forum, I assumed Cuban.

Cubans, even the cheap ones, respond better around 60%...and for long-term storage/aging, even lower.

In any case, 70% is too wet.


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## chibnkr (May 2, 2007)

FWIW, I keep mine at right around 65%. Also, unless you have a professionally calibrated digital hygrometer (I do...it is a certified laboratory instrument), most are +/- like 5% anyway so even if you think you are at 65% you may in fact be at 60% (or 70%).


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## j6ppc (Jun 5, 2006)

chibnkr said:


> FWIW, I keep mine at right around 65%. Also, unless you have a professionally calibrated digital hygrometer (I do...it is a certified laboratory instrument), most are +/- like 5% anyway so even if you think you are at 65% you may in fact be at 60% (or 70%).


Well said Michael. I strive for similar conditions as well FWIW.


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## landhoney (May 17, 2008)

No need to assume, I stated in the OP that I'm primarily aging CC's. And as to what they're going to be in, see the OP as well (it has a link that shows the cabinet). Today was spent prepping for an AC unit install in a smallish(6' X 4.5') walk in closet. That will provide the 'cool' for the cabinet/cigars. Hopefully tomorrow I will be done, maybe. Anyway, thanks for the help, I think I'll go with 60%. And as to the 10+ years, a couple recent purchases have provided me with a good head start (hint - I am 28, these we rolled when I was 11 :r nothing crazy though - MM's). Thanks for that help as well. I'll get some pics up when its all good to go, the 'cool' room will be housing more than cigars.


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## CigarmanTim (Apr 5, 2008)

boonedoggle said:


> I find that anything in the lower 60s tends to dry those cigars with long-term aging potential. I'd say 65-70RH, with no more than 70 degrees.:2


Agree wholeheartedly. Once they get dry, they never quite bounce back taste wise. Why take the chance?

The is a really good article in CA (no boos pls  April 2008 It's an interview of one of the worlds great collectors so they say. Max Gutmann owner of the cuban importer of Mexico. He stores 1500 boxes and keeps them at 74% rh due to the high altitude but suggests 70% with a temp of 57 - 60 degrees. To quote him, "They have to be in the proper humidification. You can have the best cigsar in the world, but if it is dry, it is going to taste horrible." 
I fear some of you brothers who go down to 60% for long time storage. Why take the chance when you can bounce it up to 65 or 70 and have no worries? That's an awful lot of money to risk not to mention the risk of ruining a wonderful, vintage smoke. You won't know until 10 years or so and then it's too late. Just my 2 cents.


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## Navydoc (Jan 26, 2005)

Addiction said:


> Everytime I post in this section of CS I prove my noobiness but here I go again. I keep my aging cigars at 60/60 and each bag is either sealed because it was shipped that way or I seal it here. I write the box info on a sticker and the expected removal date. I have the removal dates of each box on my PDA calender.
> 
> I check my aging storage every 60 days for water condensation and refill it.
> 
> ...


That's some method you got going there Bryan. Let us know how that works for you in a decade or so. As anyone who knows me will tell you.....I have no organization what so ever......Now that I just moved my collection maybe I can start one like you. You gave me some great ideas. And for what it's worth.....we're all still newbies and will be till the day we die. We should always be learning something and it could come from anyone at anytime.


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## Costa (Jan 26, 2008)

> We should always be learning something and it could come from anyone at anytime.


Words to live by in cigars, and everything else.

Bravo.


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## lenguamor (Nov 23, 2006)

chibnkr said:


> FWIW, I keep mine at right around 65%. Also, unless you have a professionally calibrated digital hygrometer (I do...it is a certified laboratory instrument), most are +/- like 5% anyway so even if you think you are at 65% you may in fact be at 60% (or 70%).


So, it's a _bad_ idea to do your best to control the humidity to the extent of your abilities?


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## SteveDMatt (Feb 23, 2007)

A couple people mentioned sealing. Is this appropriate? I though cigars gave off 'ammonia' as they age and it's best to let it dissipate by opening the box and allowing them to breathe occasionally.


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## NCRadioMan (Feb 28, 2005)

SteveDMatt said:


> A couple people mentioned sealing. Is this appropriate? I though cigars gave off 'ammonia' as they age and it's best to let it dissipate by opening the box and allowing them to breathe occasionally.


Less air exchage = slower and better aging.

Surely you saw this thread. http://www.clubstogie.com/vb/showthread.php?t=53778&highlight=1942

If that doesn't convince anyone about the virtues of vac sealing, I don't know what will.


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## pearson (May 27, 2008)

NCRadioMan said:


> Less air exchage = slower and better aging.
> 
> Surely you saw this thread. http://www.clubstogie.com/vb/showthread.php?t=53778&highlight=1942
> 
> If that doesn't convince anyone about the virtues of vac sealing, I don't know what will.


wow that is good to know thanks.


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## vicvitola (Mar 18, 2008)

Just curious, which participants in this thread have actual personal experience with 10+ year storage? 

Knowing the number is likely to be low, what book or publications are being referenced?


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## NCRadioMan (Feb 28, 2005)

vicvitola said:


> Just curious, which participants in this thread have actual personal experience with 10+ year storage?
> 
> Knowing the number is likely to be low, what book or publications are being referenced?


No books. If you read alot of the posts of FOG's that don't post too often anymore, much wisdom and knowledge can be had.


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## chibnkr (May 2, 2007)

lenguamor said:


> So, it's a _bad_ idea to do your best to control the humidity to the extent of your abilities?


IMHO, not at all. Just recognize that your hygrometer has a margin of error.


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## O-Danger (Apr 26, 2008)

if you dry out the oils you lose the smoke IMHO. you can always dry box the smokes once you are ready but you can't really get those oils back into it by raising the humidity... all you buy there is burn and performance but not flavour, which I think is the whole reason of aging cigars is it not?

Just my :2

oh and to add a number on there I would say around 70%RH or just under. The Mexican La Casa Del Habanos man may store his stock at 74%RH but he may also wear leopard print pj's and drink dacories... I just don't think it needs to be that wet.


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## dvickery (Jan 1, 2000)

vicvitola said:


> Just curious, which participants in this thread have actual personal experience with 10+ year storage?
> 
> Knowing the number is likely to be low, what book or publications are being referenced?


here

derrek


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## krisko (Jul 28, 2007)

O-Danger said:


> if you dry out the oils you lose the smoke IMHO. you can always dry box the smokes once you are ready but you can't really get those oils back into it by raising the humidity... all you buy there is burn and performance but not flavour, which I think is the whole reason of aging cigars is it not?


I would think this is the best argument for keeping cigars at 65 or higher. Dry cigars are tough to rehabilitate but wet cigars will come back fine...this is what I've always thought anyway. I keep my cigars at about 65-70 and I leave the one I'm going to smoke that night on the counter (rh in my house is 45 or so) and that opens the draw a bit.


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## lenguamor (Nov 23, 2006)

krisko said:


> I would think this is the best argument for keeping cigars at 65 or higher. *Dry cigars are tough to rehabilitate but wet cigars will come back fine*...this is what I've always thought anyway. I keep my cigars at about 65-70 and I leave the one I'm going to smoke that night on the counter (rh in my house is 45 or so) and that opens the draw a bit.


Provided the feet don't swell and the wrappers don't split.


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