# Forrest at Wineadors.com M.I.A.?



## lawman (May 8, 2014)

Hello all! I'm new to the forum and recently decided to build a wineador on a newair 280e. I ordered my drawers from Forrest on May 5th and contacted him on June 9th regarding the order. He told me it would be shipping that week and i never heard back from him. its now July and I'm starting to get worried. I've sent him numerous emails with no reply. its now july and still no shipment. Is this usual for him? I see a lot of guys on the forum who received orders and im curious if im the only one that feels that has been left in the dark like that. If anybody who has dealt with him can roger up with their experience id appreciate it. thanks!


----------



## teckneekz (Jan 25, 2014)

im pretty sure as with most people on here, forrest is just backed up with orders. he also took on a project with newair so i would say that things are a little busy. some people have been known to receive their shelves after 2+ months of ordering.


----------



## JustinThyme (Jun 17, 2013)

I with you on that brother. I got the same treatment on a rush order of how they were going to ship but didnt then no replies, then one excuse after the other getting posted here. Then when I finally do get them there are no dividers, they took another month. This is far too long and the craftsmanship wasn't very good either. I had to sand all surfaces and had to strip the hardwood fronts and refinish them because they were not finished correctly. Just sealer slopped onto surfaces with runs that were not only unsanded but had gouges from where they were cut. There are multiple glued joints that mortises were not seated all the way or clamped during the dry time with the excess glue just left to form globules. The wait would have been acceptable if the craftsmanship was stellar, it wasn't. Ive already made my mind up that if I do this again Im using Chasidors or a local cabinet maker.

Chasidor, Online Store


----------



## lawman (May 8, 2014)

Yeah i have heard that he is backed up but telling me that my order would ship in an email 3 weeks ago with no follow up was kind of unpleasant. After some more research, i have found others who claim the same issue as JustinThyme and I. I do wish that he would be more up front with a customer before taking your $$. I guess I'll give it another chance but will definitely have a look at chasidor. Im mostly upset because I dont have a wineador to start stocking yet!


----------



## asmartbull (Aug 16, 2009)

There is no excuse for his lack of communication or unrealistic promises . IMHO we should sticky a warning on his practices


----------



## huskers (Oct 2, 2012)

JustinThyme said:


> I with you on that brother. I got the same treatment on a rush order of how they were going to ship but didnt then no replies, then one excuse after the other getting posted here. Then when I finally do get them there are no dividers, they took another month. This is far too long and the craftsmanship wasn't very good either. I had to sand all surfaces and had to strip the hardwood fronts and refinish them because they were not finished correctly. Just sealer slopped onto surfaces with runs that were not only unsanded but had gouges from where they were cut. There are multiple glued joints that mortises were not seated all the way or clamped during the dry time with the excess glue just left to form globules. The wait would have been acceptable if the craftsmanship was stellar, it wasn't. Ive already made my mind up that if I do this again Im using Chasidors or a local cabinet maker.
> 
> Chasidor, Online Store


I tried to get a hold of Chase to see if he was still in business.

He never did get back to me, that was a long time ago now.

SO I ordered from forrest.

I would have ordered from Chase had he responded to me.


----------



## lawman (May 8, 2014)

Well the messed up part is that there is no easy way to get your money back with out being able to contact him. You have to dispute the transaction with ****** or your credit card company. I agree with the sticky idea. It would be nice to save the next guy the P.I.A.


----------



## huskers (Oct 2, 2012)

This is nothing new for Forrest.


To my knowledge, this has always been the norm for him.


Not responding to emails or taking weeks to respond, promising product and not delivering when promised.....


This is common knowledge, with a little bit of reading and research you would have known what to expect.


If you still choose to order from forrest, you shouldn't really expect anything more or out of the norm from him.






Not sticking up for him by any means and I agree the way he condones his business would ruin any business that has any competition.

But by now, people should know what to expect..........he's been making and selling them for years.


----------



## JustinThyme (Jun 17, 2013)

Lack of communication with both of them is a well known thing. Neither is well known for speedy delivery either. What I have noted time and again is the quality of work from chasidors surpasses the competition.


----------



## huskers (Oct 2, 2012)

JustinThyme said:


> Lack of communication with both of them is a well known thing. Neither is well known for speedy delivery either. What I have noted time and again is the quality of work from chasidors surpasses the competition.


yea, weren't you the one that bought a drawer from each to review?


----------



## JustinThyme (Jun 17, 2013)

huskers said:


> yea, weren't you the one that bought a drawer from each to review?


Was a different BOTL
http://www.cigarforums.net/forums/v...or-vs-wineador-wine-cooler-drawer-review.html


----------



## StogieNinja (Jul 29, 2009)

Forrest is a nice guy, great botl, and has never once ripped anyone off. He will eventually come through... but yeah, it takes a while and communication isn't great. AFAIK, no one has heard from Chasidor in a long time.

Here's an alternative:

Eric Childress | Childress Woodworks

Eric is a well known BOTL (goes by Edogg on most forums) and does great work. Everyone who he has made drawers for has raved about them.


----------



## Trackmyer (Jun 6, 2014)

JustinThyme said:


> Was a different BOTL
> http://www.cigarforums.net/forums/v...or-vs-wineador-wine-cooler-drawer-review.html


Reviewer ordered on Day1 and received on Day3.....I feel so sad now, not sure why...:dunno:


----------



## WNYTony (Feb 12, 2014)

I did the research before including the great thread comparing the 2. I knew going in it was going to take a while and it did - 2.5 months with no rush.
I knew communication would be iffy, but typically creative people (including contractors) are not the best at organization or communication so I was happy when I got a quick response.
So yes it did take a while and yes I didn't get any communication until I asked, but I figured as much.
But I had no problems with the quality of the drawers, shipping or any part of the purchase - in fact I'll probably order a few more from him very soon.
Just look things over and know what to expect before you order


----------



## huskers (Oct 2, 2012)

WNYTony said:


> I did the research before including the great thread comparing the 2. I knew going in it was going to take a while and it did - 2.5 months with no rush.
> I knew communication would be iffy, but typically creative people (including contractors) are not the best at organization or communication so I was happy when I got a quick response.
> So yes it did take a while and yes I didn't get any communication until I asked, but I figured as much.
> But I had no problems with the quality of the drawers, shipping or any part of the purchase - in fact I'll probably order a few more from him very soon.
> Just look things over and know what to expect before you order


exactly

Some people are making the purchase without any research and then they are pissed once they find out how forrest operates.


----------



## lawman (May 8, 2014)

I wouldn't say I'm pissed. I just don't endlessly research forums for every purchase I make and when I give a man money who says I'll have my order in 5 weeks or so, that's what I expect. I guess I learned the hard way on this one but I haven't written him off quite yet. I'll keep trying to at least get an email back from him. I sent one to each of his posted emails with no reply last week but apparently he always comes through.


----------



## huskers (Oct 2, 2012)

lawman said:


> I wouldn't say I'm pissed. *I just don't endlessly research forums* for every purchase I make and when I give a man money who says I'll have my order in 5 weeks or so, that's what I expect. I guess I learned the hard way on this one but I haven't written him off quite yet. I'll keep trying to at least get an email back from him. I sent one to each of his posted emails with no reply last week but apparently he always comes through.


You wouldn't of had to.

Forrest is on every cigar forum out there.

There are MANY MANY threads about his drawers.

If you would have just opened one thread, you would have known what your in for.

Anything I am gonna spend a decent chunk of change on ESPECIALLY if it's a custom made product, I always research it first so I don't end up in the boat your in.

http://www.cigarforums.net/forums/v...forum/288447-wineador-drawers-shelves-84.html

^^^^^^opening that thread alone would have told you all you needed to know.


----------



## Senor_Perfecto (Apr 2, 2014)

I'm going on 10 weeks tomorrow.


----------



## lawman (May 8, 2014)

I guess by "endlessly" I should have said "at all". I will most definitely but in the time and effort before another purchase of that magnitude.


----------



## lawman (May 8, 2014)

sounds like I'm second in line to you now haha! I'm still at the 8 week mark. You try emailing him at all or just going to ride it out?


Senor_Perfecto said:


> I'm going on 10 weeks tomorrow.


----------



## WNYTony (Feb 12, 2014)

huskers said:


> ESPECIALLY if it's a custom made product


Exactly. Almost anything that is custom is going to take some time.

That being said - I totally agree that saying it will be 5 weeks and then taking double that or better (even if there is a disclaimer that says "may take longer at busy times") is not the best business practice, as is not responding to e-mails (at least one time with a reasonable date). But when you're the only one that does it, and have a waiting list that is causing that type of delay you don't really need to worry about affecting business.
No doubt that quality competition could change things, but until that comes along I'll choose to be patient.


----------



## Senor_Perfecto (Apr 2, 2014)

lawman said:


> sounds like I'm second in line to you now haha! I'm still at the 8 week mark. You try emailing him at all or just going to ride it out?


Sigh. I emailed him a week or two ago, no reply. I was hearing "He says 5 weeks, it takes 8-12," so in 2 weeks if I don't have them in my hand I'm asking for a refund. I'll dispute it with Visa if I have to. Eventually I will get my $ back.

I just can't believe with all the handy dudes on here there isn't 2-3 guys competing for all this ripe business.


----------



## TonyBrooklyn (Jan 28, 2010)

asmartbull said:


> There is no excuse for his lack of communication or unrealistic promises . IMHO we should sticky a warning on his practices


Agreed no one wants to end up here!
Bad Trader & Scumbags List 3.0


----------



## Herf N Turf (Dec 31, 2008)

I'm sorry that you happen to be the one I'm about to pop on, but you are. I've just grown tired of typing these same words, which to me, seem OBVIOUS.

People simply do NOT understand the cottage industry and go into it with completely UNREALISTIC expectations. In this world of instant gratification, everyone wants immediate communication and instantaneous delivery. That's just not how it works!

I've been dealing with custom holster makers, guitar makers, amplifier modifiers, HiFi builders, etc., most of my life. O-n one occasion, or another, many of them have told me, "the time it would take me to answer your whiny phone calls, or ticky-tac a response to your whiny email about, 'where's my shit?', is time I wouldn't have to work on your shit'. So, I'm just going to ignore you and work on your shit'". 

The reasons we order from such entities are that they are, a) the very best at what they do, b) the ONLY ones who do what they do, or 3) a combination of a and b. In Forrest' case, it's that he's one of 4 who does what he does. He's busy. He's buried. So much so that he might make 'unrealistic' ESTIMATES on shipping. The only reason for this is that the instant gratification addict basically backs him into a corner, wherein he has to say SOMETHING. So, he says something to placate you and get you to STFU, so he can just get back to work.

Bottom line is, your shit shows up when your shit shows up. The more you bug these guys, the more time it's going to take for yours, and EVERYONE ELSE'S shit to show up.

Leave them alone. Let them do their work.

AND, who the HELL is "Chase"?


----------



## lawman (May 8, 2014)

Well I'll have to disagree in the sense that I give you money, you tell me 5 weeks, and you don't come through....you are a bullshitter. Anyone who follows the same practice is also a bullshitter. Sounds like you've been bullshitted a lot in your life. I guess I just haven't got there yet.


Herf N Turf said:


> I'm sorry that you happen to be the one I'm about to pop on, but you are. I've just grown tired of typing these same words, which to me, seem OBVIOUS.
> 
> People simply do NOT understand the cottage industry and go into it with completely UNREALISTIC expectations. In this world of instant gratification, everyone wants immediate communication and instantaneous delivery. That's just not how it works!
> 
> ...


----------



## jcazz (Apr 2, 2011)

Senor_Perfecto said:


> I just can't believe with all the handy dudes on here there isn't 2-3 guys competing for all this ripe business.


Just an observation from someone involved in another hobby with a very vocal and active community, that's also very niche and small and runs into issues where one or two guys make and sell stuff and these exact same type threads come up...

It's easy to forget that the number of people who 1) participate on boards and 2) have a wineador and 3) want custom-built shelving AND 4) can afford custom-built shelving is really a very (very) tiny number of people.

There's a reason there isn't a lot of competition; there isn't a lot of demand.


----------



## El wedo del milagro (Jul 3, 2012)

Herf N Turf said:


> People simply do NOT understand the cottage industry and go into it with completely UNREALISTIC expectations. In this world of instant gratification, everyone wants immediate communication and instantaneous delivery. That's just not how it works!
> 
> I've been dealing with custom holster makers, guitar makers, amplifier modifiers, HiFi builders, etc., most of my life. O-n one occasion, or another, many of them have told me, "the time it would take me to answer your whiny phone calls, or ticky-tac a response to your whiny email about, 'where's my shit?', is time I wouldn't have to work on your shit'. So, I'm just going to ignore you and work on your shit'".
> 
> ...


Before the Housing Bubble popped, and took out a good part of the economy, I used to make handmade jewelry. I was a good silversmith, and even better at lapidary work.

It was fun, creative work. It kept me centered. It all went to hell once I let the first person do a custom order. She spread the word and I got more business than I wanted, and WAY too much customer involvement. A lot of the joy went outta my work when I was bein' hassled with "when is it gonna be ready" questions. A couple folks went so far as to assume my designs were theirs to mass-produce because they were custom orders. Once I had to hire lawyers to stop thieves from mass producing MY art all the joy was gone and my work was hell.

I ended up pumping full service gasoline for almost eight months as a sort of vacation from all the crap. Once my head was screwed back on straight, I started making jewelry again, but never took another custom order. I simply made pieces as I was inspired, and sold 'em when I was finished. No phone yack-a-yak, and no e-mails or clients "popping in" to my house.

A craftsman, artisan, or artist isn't like a big corporation... yer not gonna get get them to hold yer hand or jump through hoops for ya.


----------



## ChiGars (Dec 11, 2013)

This is BAD business if you ask me. When you tell someone who ALREADY PAID for your product that " it will be shipped out this week" and it doesn't then you should let me know! And then when I send numerous emails asking about my shipment and you don't even have the curtesy to repond is bullshit! I am totally on the OPs side on this one. If he is so busy he should stop taking orders or hire some help.


----------



## asmartbull (Aug 16, 2009)

Herf N Turf said:


> I'm sorry that you happen to be the one I'm about to pop on, but you are. I've just grown tired of typing these same words, which to me, seem OBVIOUS.
> 
> People simply do NOT understand the cottage industry and go into it with completely UNREALISTIC expectations. In this world of instant gratification, everyone wants immediate communication and instantaneous delivery. That's just not how it works!
> 
> ...


Don, that's bunk.
Given that most on this site are noob-ish, there is no way they K ow how big or small this industry is and frankly, they don't need to.
If anyone purchases a produce and the delivery time is 50% longer than stated, with no reply to email....they have a right to be upset.
This has been going on for years and is overlooked because eventually the customer gets the product.
IMHO, for these basic reasons, he is a bad vendor..and to say that the customers are wrong in being upset and the result of an instant gratification society is wrong......justifying this practice is wrong and I don't think you would allow any other vendor to do this on this site..


----------



## Herf N Turf (Dec 31, 2008)

lawman said:


> Well I'll have to disagree in the sense that I give you money, you tell me 5 weeks, and you don't come through....you are a bullshitter. Anyone who follows the same practice is also a bullshitter. Sounds like you've been bullshitted a lot in your life. I guess I just haven't got there yet.


I agree, you and I DEFINITELY disagree. One, based on EXPERIENCE, the other, based on wanting what he wants when he wants it. "Money talks, bullshit walks". Then WALK, because your money doesn't buy you everything, the way your generation has been duped into thinking. Back in the day, when cottage industry thrived and didn't have to deal with the instant gratification generation, we got a lot of great products, hand-built, with love and craftsmanship. Now, everything comes from China in an instant. Sad thing is, this generation doesn't know the difference and just want everything NOW.

Unfortunately, the fact that you want a custom, hard-to-get product, but aren't willing to wait for it, nor understand the dynamic craftsmen have to endure from people like you, we have to endure threads like this. The only reason you've been "bullshitted", is because you're pushy and impatient. Once identified as such, anyone will say anything to you they think you want to hear, just so your entitled persona will shut up and get off their back. All these good people want to do is work and make their products. They don't need "communication", as you call it. What they need is PEACE and time to produce their wares.

Sorry that you're so unaware of how goods have been produced for most of human history and can only relate to 'order today, ship tomorrow, receive on Wednesday," but "the best things in life are worth waiting for". A mantra you might try repeating several times before considering offering me any further advice.

Here's more fodder for your consideration. Forrest has serviced countless BOTL on this forum and most are elated to have received his work. The fact that he's busy and too busy to meet YOUR personal expectations, is a testament to his success in satisfying hundreds of others. He started his business here. He has done his level-best to be a stand-up guy and produce great TO-SPEC products. Do you even know what, "TO-SPEC" means??? Every wine cellar is a little different. Unlike most products YOU buy, there's no "cookie-cutter", punch-n-go template for what Forrest does. Every project is a bit of a new adventure. This isn't 'set-n-forget', CNC stuff. This is HAND CRAFTED, cottage-industry! A dying breed of custom makers.

Get over yourself.


----------



## ChiGars (Dec 11, 2013)

Herf N Turf said:


> I agree, you and I DEFINITELY disagree. One, based on EXPERIENCE, the other, based on wanting what he wants when he wants it. "Money talks, bullshit walks". Then WALK, because your money doesn't buy you everything, the way your generation has been duped into thinking. Back in the day, when cottage industry thrived and didn't have to deal with the instant gratification generation, we got a lot of great products, hand-built, with love and craftsmanship. Now, everything comes from China in an instant. Sad thing is, this generation doesn't know the difference and just want everything NOW.
> 
> Unfortunately, the fact that you want a custom, hard-to-get product, but aren't willing to wait for it, nor understand the dynamic craftsmen have to endure from people like you, we have to endure threads like this. The only reason you've been "bullshitted", is because you're pushy and impatient. Once identified as such, anyone will say anything to you they think you want to hear, just so your entitled persona will shut up and get off their back. All these good people want to do is work and make their products. They don't need "communication", as you call it. What they need is PEACE and time to produce their wares.
> 
> ...


I think he is talking about the lack of communication and that Forest told him it would ship out that week and when it didn't the OP emailed him about it with no response for going on a month now. That's what he is mad at. Not having to wait. Two different things.


----------



## CeeGar (Feb 19, 2007)

Either he is a business owner or just a guy that makes crap on the side. He needs to decide which one he wants to be. Period. As a business owner myself, if I gave this level of service, I wouldn't be in business long. If he is always running that far behind schedule, then he should communicate that up front. As in, "hey man, your shit won't be ready for a few months or more....don't call me, I'll call you." Then let the guy paying make the decision to buy based on that.


----------



## Herf N Turf (Dec 31, 2008)

asmartbull said:


> Don, that's bunk.
> Given that most on this site are noob-ish, there is no way they K ow how big or small this industry is and frankly, they don't need to.
> If anyone purchases a produce and the delivery time is 50% longer than stated, with no reply to email....they have a right to be upset.
> This has been going on for years and is overlooked because eventually the customer gets the product.
> IMHO, for these basic reasons, he is a bad vendor..and to say that the customers are wrong in being upset and the result of an instant gratification society is wrong......justifying this practice is wrong and I don't think you would allow any other vendor to do this on this site..


Al,

I have no love for Forrest. I've never purchased from him. He gets NO preferred treatment here. To imply that, isn't correct, or fair. I am simply standing up for what I know of COTTAGE INDUSTRY. I don't care if someone's a "noob", nor do I care if a "vendor" is an industry, or a one-man-show. All I'm saying is, if you're expecting moment-to-moment updates on the status of your order, from a cottage industry, you're barking up the wrong tree. It's JUST NOT GOING TO HAPPEN, nor should it. All these people - noobs, or not - are doing, is to SLOW the whole process down. These guys are HELPING us. They're providing extremely hard-to-get, CUSTOM items for us, to make our hobby more enjoyable and simpler. The more we hassle them, berate them on ours, or any other forum, the less motivated they're going to be to do us this service. Forrest could just as well be upgrading kitchen cabinets!


----------



## lawman (May 8, 2014)

"to spec"....I'm sure my new air 280 is the first he's ever built. Easy old timer. And I didn't expect next day delivery. I expected 5 weeks like he told me. Finding it hard to believe you don't see the annoyance there. And I do live by money talking and bullshit walking. But when they take your money up front and bullshit you on the back end..hard to walk.


Herf N Turf said:


> I agree, you and I DEFINITELY disagree. One, based on EXPERIENCE, the other, based on wanting what he wants when he wants it. "Money talks, bullshit walks". Then WALK, because your money doesn't buy you everything, the way your generation has been duped into thinking. Back in the day, when cottage industry thrived and didn't have to deal with the instant gratification generation, we got a lot of great products, hand-built, with love and craftsmanship. Now, everything comes from China in an instant. Sad thing is, this generation doesn't know the difference and just want everything NOW.
> 
> Unfortunately, the fact that you want a custom, hard-to-get product, but aren't willing to wait for it, nor understand the dynamic craftsmen have to endure from people like you, we have to endure threads like this. The only reason you've been "bullshitted", is because you're pushy and impatient. Once identified as such, anyone will say anything to you they think you want to hear, just so your entitled persona will shut up and get off their back. All these good people want to do is work and make their products. They don't need "communication", as you call it. What they need is PEACE and time to produce their wares.
> 
> ...


----------



## ChiGars (Dec 11, 2013)

Herf N Turf said:


> Al,
> 
> I have no love for Forrest. I've never purchased from him. He gets NO preferred treatment here. To imply that, isn't correct, or fair. I am simply standing up for what I know of COTTAGE INDUSTRY. I don't care if someone's a "noob", nor do I care if a "vendor" is an industry, or a one-man-show. All I'm saying is, if you're expecting moment-to-moment updates on the status of your order, from a cottage industry, you're barking up the wrong tree. It's JUST NOT GOING TO HAPPEN, nor should it. All these people - noobs, or not - are doing, is to SLOW the whole process down. These guys are HELPING us. They're providing extremely hard-to-get, CUSTOM items for us, to make our hobby more enjoyable and simpler. The more we hassle them, berate them on ours, or any other forum, the less motivated they're going to be to do us this serv,ice. Forrest could just as well be upgrading kitchen cabinets!


It's hard to believe that he can't check his email before bed or when he wakes up and not take a few mins to send a response. Doing this doesn't delay anyone's order at all! There would be a lot of businesses out of business if this was the way they did business.


----------



## huskers (Oct 2, 2012)

Herf N Turf said:


> I agree, you and I DEFINITELY disagree. One, based on EXPERIENCE, the other, based on wanting what he wants when he wants it. "Money talks, bullshit walks". Then WALK, because your money doesn't buy you everything, the way your generation has been duped into thinking. Back in the day, when cottage industry thrived and didn't have to deal with the instant gratification generation, we got a lot of great products, hand-built, with love and craftsmanship. Now, everything comes from China in an instant. Sad thing is, this generation doesn't know the difference and just want everything NOW.
> 
> Unfortunately, the fact that you want a custom, hard-to-get product, but aren't willing to wait for it, nor understand the dynamic craftsmen have to endure from people like you, we have to endure threads like this. The only reason you've been "bullshitted", is because you're pushy and impatient. Once identified as such, anyone will say anything to you they think you want to hear, just so your entitled persona will shut up and get off their back. All these good people want to do is work and make their products. They don't need "communication", as you call it. What they need is PEACE and time to produce their wares.
> 
> ...


Don, I agree 100% with what you are saying.

Your statement describing what I feel is my generation kind of upsets me as I don't like to be stereo typed because of my age.

More importantly, Don I consider you to be a friend of mine...........is everything ok?

You seem a little bit edgy.


----------



## defetis (Jan 5, 2014)

lawman said:


> "to spec"....I'm sure my new air 280 is the first he's ever built. Easy old timer. And I didn't expect next day delivery. I expected 5 weeks like he told me. Finding it hard to believe you don't see the annoyance there. And I do live by money talking and bullshit walking. But when they take your money up front and bullshit you on the back end..hard to walk.


Jake, your playing with fire. In my opinion you shouldn't of even made this thread until you received the end product. For all we know hes putting in extra time to make yours special( i know hes not but you can think so). Just saying don't mark him until you've seen the end product. Also i have no pitty for what you get since you didn't bother to read shit!


----------



## Herf N Turf (Dec 31, 2008)

lawman said:


> "to spec"....I'm sure my new air 280 is the first he's ever built. Easy old timer.


Okay, how about you go out and measure five of them and get back to me.

Let me save you the trouble. NONE are consistent! Every single one has it's little idiosyncrasies and dimensional discrepancies. Gosh, though, you know everything; enough to throw sarcasm.

Old timer? Really? All I was trying to do was educate you on something you clearly know nothing about and perhaps shine a little light on how things work in small/cottage industry. Don't like it? Don't want it? I need to be in this thread about as much as I need you here.

At the end of the day, I really do hope everyone ends happy. I hope you get your stuff and I hope people get a clue as to how such things work. If 50% of my wish comes true, I suppose that's a win.

We'll see how this plays. Via condios.


----------



## lawman (May 8, 2014)

well I didn't mean to upset anyone. I'm not saying anything regarding the craftsmanship. Just that I was told a day in an email and Christmas never came for me. just wanted to hear other peoples experiences as of late. Sorry again if anyone got upset.


----------



## ChiGars (Dec 11, 2013)

lawman said:


> well I didn't mean to upset anyone. I'm not saying anything regarding the craftsmanship. Just that I was told a day in an email and Christmas never came for me. just wanted to hear other peoples experiences as of late. Sorry again if anyone got upset.


Exactly!! Not sure what some people don't get here. Hope it all works out bro!!


----------



## TonyBrooklyn (Jan 28, 2010)

asmartbull said:


> Don, that's bunk.
> Given that most on this site are noob-ish, there is no way they K ow how big or small this industry is and frankly, they don't need to.
> If anyone purchases a produce and the delivery time is 50% longer than stated, with no reply to email....they have a right to be upset.
> This has been going on for years and is overlooked because eventually the customer gets the product.
> IMHO, for these basic reasons, he is a bad vendor..and to say that the customers are wrong in being upset and the result of an instant gratification society is wrong......justifying this practice is wrong and I don't think you would allow any other vendor to do this on this site..


Agreed a mans word is his bond! A time given a price quoted performance in a timely fashion A perfect finished product. Also lack of communication is never an option. That's how my father did business that's how i still do business!



CeeGar said:


> Either he is a business owner or just a guy that makes crap on the side. He needs to decide which one he wants to be. Period. As a business owner myself, if I gave this level of service, I wouldn't be in business long. If he is always running that far behind schedule, then he should communicate that up front. As in, "hey man, your shit won't be ready for a few months or more....don't call me, I'll call you." Then let the guy paying make the decision to buy based on that.


I can just imagine if i ripped out someones kitchen better yet their bathroom. told them a week and left them hanging a month. Word would spread so fast i couldn't get a job raking leaves!



lawman said:


> well I didn't mean to upset anyone. I'm not saying anything regarding the craftsmanship. Just that I was told a day in an email and Christmas never came for me. just wanted to hear other peoples experiences as of late. Sorry again if anyone got upset.


You didn't upset me things like this need to be brought to our attention. We are a community a family everyone should know. I commend you for bringing it to our attention. Is that why your R/G is minus 61 because of this thread??? If that's the case p.m me and let me know i hit you tomorrow when my R/G gun is full.:yo:


----------



## lawman (May 8, 2014)

yeah i guess I get dung during the course of this thread. I really didn't think it was going to get that heated.


TonyBrooklyn said:


> Agreed a mans word is his bond! A time given a price quoted performance in a timely fashion A perfect finished product. Also lack of communication is never an option. That's how my father did business that's how i still do business!
> 
> I can just imagine if i ripped out someones kitchen better yet their bathroom. told them a week and left them hanging a month. Word would spread so fast i couldn't get a job raking leaves!
> 
> You didn't upset me things like this need to be brought to our attention. We are a community a family everyone should know. I commend you for bringing it to our attention. Is that why your R/G is minus 61 because of this thread??? If that's the case p.m me and let me know i hit you tomorrow when my R/G gun is full.:yo:


----------



## TonyBrooklyn (Jan 28, 2010)

lawman said:


> yeah i guess I get dung during the course of this thread. I really didn't think it was going to get that heated.


I am sorry to hear it this usually does not happen without just cause.
Anybody who is a member of this forum should be free to speak their mind in a respectful fashion without fear of reprisal.
I see some have already stepped up and given you a bump.
I am a man of my word and will bump you tomorrow.
Please except my apologies as a member of this great community i can tell you this is not the norm but rather the exception.


----------



## [email protected] (Aug 16, 2012)

+1 on what Brooklyn said.......it's all gravy


----------



## lawman (May 8, 2014)

thanks tony and sparky. appreciate it brothers!


----------



## Senor_Perfecto (Apr 2, 2014)

I think the bottom line here is, when someone posts a "thinking about a wineador" thread, they should be told in no uncertain terms:

1. There are two guys who are most well known for drawers
2. You will be quoted some length of time, but that quote will be bullshit; if you need them in less than 3 months (it may take even longer), take your unit to a wood shop, let them show you some examples of their work, and let them measure out and custom fabricate exactly what you need. Could be more $. Could be less. Very likely it will take a LOT LESS TIME than the two online dudes will take. Maybe you can even quote them what Forrest or Chas quotes and see if they will beat it.
3. If you place an order online with Forrest or Chas, fire and forget; you won't get your stuff any sooner or later if you send an email or five. You'll get it when you get it. Which sucks when you've got a brand new wine fridge sitting in front of you ready to go. But that's the real story.


----------



## cakeanddottle (Mar 14, 2011)

I'm invoking Godwin's Law before this goes any further. Hitler.


----------



## Senor_Perfecto (Apr 2, 2014)

cakeanddottle said:


> I'm invoking Godwin's Law before this goes any further. Hitler.


Das is gut.

:clock:


----------



## TonyBrooklyn (Jan 28, 2010)

lawman said:


> thanks tony and sparky. appreciate it brothers!


Thanks for taking the time to inform this community of the problems you have experienced.
It affects all who are members here.
When i asked you to P.M me it was so i could apologise for your bad experience via P.M.
The bump i promised and gave you was for the usefull post you gave.
Letting us know what was going on with said vendor.
My intent was not to break any rules of the forum.
Or to cause any drama.
Why am i saying this to you.
Because you are new and if someone does not tell you how would you know.
Now go and enjoy the forums it really is a very cool place.
Regards
Tony


----------



## MDSPHOTO (Sep 10, 2013)

This same thread pops up everywhere though out the cigar corner of the web. I totally get that it's a cottage industry and that time spent on communication means less time on manufacturing, but I think realistic expectations need to be set and there has to be Some customer interaction if timelines slip. 

To Don's point we as a society have come to have a we want it now mentality. Our speedy forms of communication and our instant access to information drives that thinking. I believe that's why people get upset when they can't get a text or an email in reasonable amount of time. I also believe that while it's a cottage industry there are business owners who can put out a custom product in a reasonable amount of time and if not keep open lines of communication with their customers. Arlin Liss, Bob Staebill and Ed @ Waxing moon are just a few that come to mind.

I have no doubt the OP will get his drawers, but Forrest could limit these continued threads by just being up front for the start of the project by offering realistic timelines for delivery of his product.


----------



## huskers (Oct 2, 2012)

MDSPHOTO said:


> This same thread pops up everywhere though out the cigar corner of the web. I totally get that it's a cottage industry and that time spent on communication means less time on manufacturing, but I think realistic expectations need to be set and there has to be Some customer interaction if timelines slip.
> 
> To Don's point we as a society have come to have a we want it now mentality. Our speedy forms of communication and our instant access to information drives that thinking. I believe that's why people get upset when they can't get a text or an email in reasonable amount of time. I also believe that while it's a cottage industry there are business owners who can put out a custom product in a reasonable amount of time and if not keep open lines of communication with their customers. Arlin Liss, Bob Staebill and Ed @ Waxing moon are just a few that come to mind.
> 
> I have no doubt the OP will get his drawers, but Forrest could limit these continued threads by just being up front for the start of the project by offering realistic timelines for delivery of his product.


You nailed it brother.

I'm gonna post some final thoughts on this thread before I leave it.

Yes, we as PEOPLE........not a particular "generation" but people as a whole have come to expect things immediately.

I deal with people of all generations face to face and on the phone at work A LOT. I will tell you that some of the older folks are Just as demanding if not MORE demanding than people from my "Generation" to have work to be completed RIGHT NOW.

I've had older people get pissed at me when my boss makes a promise to complete work and he is a day late.

People pay for something and they want what they were promised when they were promised.

The truth of the matter is that the business world has evolved a LOT since the 90's, 80's, 70's...........ect.

We have earned MILLIONS of dollars worth of income as a business because other business couldn't ante up to their word so the customer turned to us.

There is more business competition in today's world than there ever has been and if one company won't do something for you, there are generally other places that WILL do it.

If your transmission goes out of your car, your not going to want to be put on a 5 day waiting list.

Your going to give your business to someone that can fix it immediately.

That's just the way it is now days because there is so much competition amongst so many businesses.

With all the competition willing to do anything for the business, we have become accustomed to getting what we want and when we want it.

As far as it being a handmade product that takes real craftsmanship, YES...........it is.

And YES, it does take time. Your not going to get it tomorrow or the next day, you need to have some patience.

With that said, the company NEEDS to be realistic on their estimations of completing the job.

There really is not a good reason to give anyone an un-real estimate.......just going to cause hardship down the road.

Let me ask you this.

If your getting the roof on you're house repaired, are you going to be happy when they start on the job and tell you two days only to have it drug out for MONTHS? NO!!! (actually happened to me)

If your transmission goes out and the shop tells you two days............are you going to be OK and patient when it actually takes upwards of a week? Probably not.

Forrest could get a lot more work done and have a lot less of these threads of he were to just say up front "Hey, I'm behind, might be 3 months before you get it."

When he puts a realistic time frame for himself on the table, it will do away with tons of emails of "Where's my shit, you promised it to me in a month."

I could go on but I've said my peace.

This thread has really rubbed me the wrong way. Probably the worst thread I have ever been a part of or witnessed here on puff.

Good luck to all involved.


----------



## TonyBrooklyn (Jan 28, 2010)

Many manufacture items on many forums i belong to what they do when making a specific part is to make a run of lets say 10 or 20 or 50 depending on what demand dictates.
They then give a discount for those who pay before the run is started. Those that want to pay full price or rather not pay till their order is ready for shipment are free to do so as well.
It works very well on car forums i wonder how well it would work in this circumstance.:dunno:


----------



## SanFranFlyFish (Apr 26, 2014)

How is a drawer for a NewAir 280 a "custom Product" if there is a check box on the order form that says "gimme 1/2/3/4/5 of these"? Granted, if you want a Bubinga drawer front with a mother-of-pearl inlay, then that'd be "custom", but an unpainted, unvarnished, unshellaced, unlaquered 3" high drawer for the most common wineador on the market ain't "custom". The fact that Forrest is making drawers/shelves for NewAir itself suggests that this is a volume product, not a custom one.



Herf N Turf said:


> Al,
> 
> I have no love for Forrest. I've never purchased from him. He gets NO preferred treatment here. To imply that, isn't correct, or fair. I am simply standing up for what I know of COTTAGE INDUSTRY. I don't care if someone's a "noob", nor do I care if a "vendor" is an industry, or a one-man-show. All I'm saying is, if you're expecting moment-to-moment updates on the status of your order, from a cottage industry, you're barking up the wrong tree. It's JUST NOT GOING TO HAPPEN, nor should it. All these people - noobs, or not - are doing, is to SLOW the whole process down. These guys are HELPING us. They're providing extremely hard-to-get, CUSTOM items for us, to make our hobby more enjoyable and simpler. The more we hassle them, berate them on ours, or any other forum, the less motivated they're going to be to do us this service. Forrest could just as well be upgrading kitchen cabinets!


----------



## Livin' Legend (Sep 23, 2012)

SanFranFlyFish said:


> How is a drawer for a NewAir 280 a "custom Product" if there is a check box on the order form that says "gimme 1/2/3/4/5 of these"? Granted, if you want a Bubinga drawer front with a mother-of-pearl inlay, then that'd be "custom", but an unpainted, unvarnished, unshellaced, unlaquered 3" high drawer for the most common wineador on the market ain't "custom". The fact that Forrest is making drawers/shelves for NewAir itself suggests that this is a volume product, not a custom one.


Excepting, as you said, the truly "custom" hardwood upgrades, I think "made to order" would be a more accurate description of this type of work in that he has a set of design specs for a number of models, but doesn't keep any inventory on hand without any orders. I have no idea what his profit margin is, but he may not have the available capital or storage space to keep even those generic NewAir/Vinotemp drawers on hand.

Speaking as someone who has a very small side business that I started from scratch, I could think of several ways I'd streamline the manufacturing process (i.e. cut enough material for several dozen NewAir drawers and have them ready for gluing them all together at the same time, maybe doing away with some of the myriad options like notched or unnotched, drawer pulls, etc. in favor of a base model) but without knowing Forrest's situation in regards to spare time for this side business, how many pieces he produces in a given time, or any number of other factors, for all I know he's tried all those and found them unfeasible.

That's my one cent on the situation anywho. The other cent is that while I have no issue with waiting three months for this nature of commission and the quality of it, I do think he could bypass a lot of animosity and customer complaints if he adjusted that 5 weeks figure he has on his website. It seems that he pretty consistently takes much longer than that, and I think people would be more or less okay with it if he practiced the old motto, "Underpromise, overdeliver" regardless of the fact that within the community, the long delays are expected.

Personally, I had no problems with my transaction with him a couple of years ago and will probably be ordered from him again for my larger wineador, but I think a lot of the complaints about the process are quite valid.


----------



## Herf N Turf (Dec 31, 2008)

SanFranFlyFish said:


> How is a drawer for a NewAir 280 a "custom Product" if there is a check box on the order form that says "gimme 1/2/3/4/5 of these"? Granted, if you want a Bubinga drawer front with a mother-of-pearl inlay, then that'd be "custom", but an unpainted, unvarnished, unshellaced, unlaquered 3" high drawer for the most common wineador on the market ain't "custom". The fact that Forrest is making drawers/shelves for NewAir itself suggests that this is a volume product, not a custom one.


It appears we do not share a common definition of, "custom". To my way of thinking, it's NOT produced by the manufacturer, but rather a 'retro-fit', item made in order to 're-purpose' a piece of equipment, which was never intended to serve your intended purpose. Forrest produces a product used to, 'modify', this piece of equipment in order to suit your specific needs. Same principle applies if I send a Colt 1911 off to cottage guy and have it altered to shoot .40, rather than .45. They may be pre-manufactured parts, at least to some extent, but the fact remains, it then becomes a 'custom' gun.

I really don't care what jargon you find most accessible, what matters is, the gist of what I'm trying to point out. "Communication" is just another word for, "slows me down". Just because a guy isn't at our beck and call, doesn't mean he's a bad vendor. It just mean that he prioritizes WORK over jabber.

Look, buy from these guys, or don't. I really don't care, nor do I have a dog in this fight. Fact remains, it is what it is. People can try any way they like to justify themselves and their points, but that hasn't really changed anything, has it?

You might not like the message, but it's not being made up by this messenger. After all, you're the one who called me back to this thread. Again, dig it or don't, but it is what it is.


----------

