# McClelland Ketchup?



## Stonedog (Mar 9, 2011)

Last night I cracked open my first McClelland tin. It's a tin of Grey Havens that I've had packed away for about 6 months. The tin note was vinegar, tomato and a bit sweet. It reminded me of the baked-on ketchup one might find on an old fashioned meatloaf. I dumped the tin onto a sheet of paper to let it dry for about an hour but the ketchup smell is still there.

Does this go away with age? I think I caught hints of it in the smoke this morning as I was trying my first bowl.


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## CaptainEnormous (Sep 30, 2010)

No, it doesn't go away with age. Unfortunately. 
It does diminish with some drying time. 
And it's less prevalent in the flavor of the smoke than it is in the tin-note. 
But pretty much every McClelland VA blend will have the ketchup scent.
All you people who love the Frog Mortons (myself included), it's the sweet vinegar of the VAs in there that ties that blend together so uniquely. Think "ketchup" next time you fire up a bowl, and see if it doesn't inform the experience. 

McClelland has said it's a natural effect of the aging process of their VA tobaccos. Which I don't believe. I'm pretty sure it's a casing they add.

The really strange thing, for me, about the ketchup aroma is that I actually enjoy it now. I remember cracking my first tin of Dark Star and being repulsed by the sharp vinegar twang. I used to try flakes out for days to try and get rid of it. . .but many McClelland blends later, I find myself drawn to the "McClelland Ketchup" aroma. Classical conditioning, I suppose.


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## Stonedog (Mar 9, 2011)

CaptainEnormous said:


> No, it doesn't go away with age. Unfortunately.
> It does diminish with some drying time.
> And it's less prevalent in the flavor of the smoke than it is in the tin-note.
> But pretty much every McClelland VA blend will have the ketchup scent.
> ...


Interesting, thanks for the information.

The Grey Havens is nice but not what I was expecting. Only occasionally did the ketchup come through but the rest of the time it was a pleasing sweetened VA/Burley - almost like a weaker StoneHaven. If only the ketchup wasn't there (way back) in the background...


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## indigosmoke (Sep 1, 2009)

I love Grey Havens and the McKetchup taste and scent. It does seem like a love it or hate it thing, however. BTW-When it gets some age on it, GH is wonderful! If you are not really enjoying it now consider jarring it for a while and then giving it another shot.


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## Stonedog (Mar 9, 2011)

indigosmoke said:


> I love Grey Havens and the McKetchup taste and scent. It does seem like a love it or hate it thing, however. BTW-When it gets some age on it, GH is wonderful! If you are not really enjoying it now consider jarring it for a while and then giving it another shot.


I've already jarred it (did that after dumping it to dry). How much age are you talking? It was about 6 months since I've purchased it, not sure now long it was in the tin before that.


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## freestoke (Feb 13, 2011)

Just sniffed an "experimental" jar of a half ounce or so of 5100. Earlier this summer, I place a jar in the car with the lid open and dried it out some. It's since rehydrated on its own, but I just smelled it and it no longer smells like ketchup! :shock: I've thrown it into some IF and such since, but haven't smoked it straight up since. Actually, it smells really good now!


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## indigosmoke (Sep 1, 2009)

Stonedog said:


> I've already jarred it (did that after dumping it to dry). How much age are you talking? It was about 6 months since I've purchased it, not sure now long it was in the tin before that.


The oldest I've smoked was about 6-7 years old. RJPuff reports that a 10 year old tin he cracked was exquisite, which I can believe. If you've still got the tin you can check the bottom for a date code.


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## Contrabass Bry (May 3, 2010)

The date code is on the bottom of the tin.The last 2 digits are the year of production, the two before that are the batch number from that year.

Any freshly cracked tin on McClellands will have that decided acetic smell, but I would suggest a little more air time. Come back to it in a week or two now that it has been opened. Hopefully the jar has some air space in it. Come time to smoke, I prefer all my McC blends be dry to the point of crispy. The ketchup will have subsided and the sweetness will be more pronounced.

My last two experiences were with 6 yr old Blackney's Bayou flake and Tawny Flake. the ketchup faded quickly and left two profoundly exciting blends with a marked syrupy mouthfeel!

Enjoy!


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## ChronoB (Nov 4, 2007)

It seems like everyone is trying to eliminate or lessen that trademark McClelland ketchup/vinegar characteristic. I really wish someone from McClelland could comment on it directly, because whether they case their tobacco with something, or it results naturally from their aging process, it is obviously intentional. The fact that many other blenders produce tasty, well-aged blends without it means that regardless of the process used McClelland wants it there.

Perhaps at this point it has spawned notoriety, so they wouldn't _want_ to eliminate it. But it seems that despite the love for their blends there is little love for the ketchupness that goes along with them.


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## User Name (Feb 11, 2011)

Sometimes I'll crack open my "opened" tin of dark star and stick my nose in it and give it a good whiff. 

When I come to, I feel so alive!

I love this stuff.


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## Nachman (Oct 16, 2010)

Instead of trying to get rid of the ketchup smell, just buy Rattray's Virginias. Problem solved.


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## indigosmoke (Sep 1, 2009)

Nachman said:


> Instead of trying to get rid of the ketchup smell, just buy Rattray's Virginias. Problem solved.


+1.

Or one of the hundreds of other non-McClelland VAs out there, and leave the juicy, McKetchupy goodness alone for those of us who love it.


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## Stonedog (Mar 9, 2011)

indigosmoke said:


> +1.
> 
> Or one of the hundreds of other non-McClelland VAs out there, and leave the juicy, McKetchupy goodness alone for those of us who love it.


Not sure this was directed at me, but like I said, this was my first tin. I bought it based on the recommendation from the local tobacconist and was hoping it would be a little like a milder Exhausted Rooster which is great but sometimes too peppery. I didn't realize this had a sweet topping of some sort (honey or molasses?) but aside from the Heinz-essence it's not a bad blend.

I've got it resting in a cabinet all spread out again. Fingers crossed the vinegar will somehow evaporate but I'm not confident it will.

I also have a tin of McLelland's Dominican Glory Maduro stashed away. It's at least 5 months old. Anyone know if this will have the ketchup casing too?


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## indigosmoke (Sep 1, 2009)

It wasn't directed at you, Jon. I was teasing Chrono for his suggestion that maybe McC should change their blends to remove the McKetchup flavor. Sorry if that wasn't clear. If you decide you don't like it or want to keep it let me know and maybe we can work out a trade for what you've got left. I'm always up for smoking some. Also, you might want to try a few other McC VAs before you make your final determination. Being a VABurPer with a topping makes Grey Havens kind of unique in the McC VA family. Still, the Ketchupiness is there in most all of them. Never had the Maduro so I can't help there. Have you ever tried Long Golden Flake? I don't like very peppery perique blends but find LGF to be quite mellow in that department and a tasty VABurPer smoke. It does seem to have a bit of a topping as well though.


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## Stonedog (Mar 9, 2011)

indigosmoke said:


> It wasn't directed at you, Jon. I was teasing Chrono for his suggestion that maybe McC should change their blends to remove the McKetchup flavor. Sorry if that wasn't clear. If you decide you don't like it or want to keep it let me know and maybe we can work out a trade for what you've got left. I'm always up for smoking some. Also, you might want to try a few other McC VAs before you make your final determination. Being a VABurPer with a topping makes Grey Havens kind of unique in the McC VA family. Still, the Ketchupiness is there in most all of them. Never had the Maduro so I can't help there. *Have you ever tried Long Golden Flake*? I don't like very peppery perique blends but find LGF to be quite mellow in that department and a tasty VABurPer smoke. It does seem to have a bit of a topping as well though.


LGF is at the top of my wish list actually but it's a bit pricey. I'm going to try to work through my current stock of VaPers and ER before giving in to TAD again.

I'm a bit concerned about the Dominican Glory Maduro now. Some of the reviews on TobaccoReviews mention the trademark ketchup aroma.

UPDATE: Just opened the cabinet and was hit by eau de ketchup but when I stuck my nose in a small pile and I'm getting more regular tobacco. There is hope, assuming it doesn't completely dry out in the process.


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## Commander Quan (May 6, 2003)

I have never experienced the McCelland Ketchup phenomenon. I'm going to have to pick up some of these blends and see for myself. I just hope it's Heinz Ketchup, and not Hunts uke:


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## canadianpiper (Nov 27, 2010)

Its a interesting sent for a tobbacco, but I must say I do enjoy it. The Froggies are one of my favorite sented Mc C's


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## Katharsis (Jun 15, 2011)

freestoke said:


> Just sniffed an "experimental" jar of a half ounce or so of 5100. Earlier this summer, I place a jar in the car with the lid open and dried it out some. It's since rehydrated on its own, but I just smelled it and it no longer smells like ketchup! :shock: I've thrown it into some IF and such since, but haven't smoked it straight up since. Actually, it smells really good now!


5100 is actually one of the only McClellands that _doesn't_ smell like ketchup to me.

For the record, I hate the ketchup smell of McC (I even hate ketchup, save on hot dogs with mustard), but I _love_ their tobaccos, and I don't taste that smell whatsoever when I'm smoking it.


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## Wallbright (Jan 2, 2011)

The ketchup smell definitely is unique but I have only notice it in the tin note and not the actual flavor while smoking.


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## quo155 (Aug 10, 2010)

Now this is plumb interesting as I have never "smelt" _catsyrup_ in my McC's...now I have to see if this is the case for my nose...as ketchup on tobacco does not appeal to me...hmmmm....


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## Stonedog (Mar 9, 2011)

OK, another update:

The Grey Havens was getting pretty crispy laying out on paper so I placed a wet paper towel over the pile. Made a sort of moisture tent by placing something in the middle of the baccy mound. This way the wet paper towel didn't come into direct contact with the tobacco. 

The tobacco did rehydrate a bit and more importantly I'm not getting ketchup anymore. It is earthy and slightly spicey - not the sweet fig/raisin/blueberry smell of Exhausted Rooster or LNF - but perhaps wood (cedar) and leather as one might get from certain cigars. Point is it doesn't smell like ketchup!

Needless to say I'm pretty excited. It looks like airing it out for several hours (being careful to rehydrate if necessary) allows the eau de catsup to dissipate. 

If this hot-dog condiment note is indeed a byproduct of fermentation why don't blends from other manufacturers have this smell? Is it possible McClelland adds something to expedite the fermentation?


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## RJpuffs (Jan 27, 2008)

GH is one of my favorites (just peek into my cellar) and I have gobs of it stashed away. At 4 or 5 years age, the ketchup kinda diminishes. I don't like to dry out an entire tin, I just put out a bowls worth 15min/60min before, if needed, it dampens the ketchupiness. At 10 years, its a totally different animal, a better animal but a different animal from a "young" Gray Havens. :first:

As with other McCletchup blends, its part of their charm. It is what it is, light up and enjoy the McHeinz :humble:


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## Nick S. (Jul 10, 2011)

Commander Quan said:


> I just hope it's Heinz Ketchup, and not Hunts uke:


ound:I know the feeling, people accuse me of being a ketchup snob because I only use Heinz, but I tell them that I prefer REAL ketchup...

But back on topic, I have never experienced the "ketchup" smell that many have reported from McClelland tobaccos... and I have enjoyed all of there tobaccos I have tried.


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## BrewShooter (Mar 17, 2011)

Nick S. said:


> ound:I know the feeling, people accuse me of being a ketchup snob because I only use Heinz, but I tell them that I prefer REAL ketchup...


I only eat ketchup out of the little plastic pouches that I get at Burger King.


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## Nick S. (Jul 10, 2011)

BrewShooter said:


> I only eat ketchup out of the little plastic pouches that I get at Burger King.


Even that is Heinz though, so it is acceptable...


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## Marc Romero (Aug 13, 2011)

Ahh... nothing like the signature smell of a McClelland Virginia, the finest flue-cured virginia tobaccos in the world in my opinion, nobody does Virginia tobaccos like McClelland does, and no, the smell does not carry over to the smoke. McClelland Matured Virginia tobaccos are the only Virginia tobaccos I smoke personally, they are second to none. If you have ever been in a tobacco barn where they sweat Virginia tobaccos you will recognize the tin aroma. Good stuff!


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## WWhermit (Nov 30, 2008)

I smell the ketchup smell in just about every McC's virginia blend. It doesn't bother me in the least. I actually enjoy the smell when I first crack open the tin. This may be because one of the first tins I tried was McC's Dark Star, which, when you first open the tin, there is a tsunami of tangy balsamic scent coming at you.

I guess I'm unique, however, because I get that same smell out of virginias from Esoterica, H&H, and other brands as well. Others, like SG, GH for example, I'll always smell caramel and butterscotch. I guess it's just the way my nose works.

At this point, I think I'd be disappointed if I didn't smell the ketchup anymore.

WWhermit
ipe:


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## User Name (Feb 11, 2011)

WWhermit said:


> I smell the ketchup smell in just about every McC's virginia blend. It doesn't bother me in the least. I actually enjoy the smell when I first crack open the tin. This may be because one of the first tins I tried was McC's Dark Star, which, when you first open the tin, there is a tsunami of tangy balsamic scent coming at you.
> 
> I guess I'm unique, however, because I get that same smell out of virginias from Esoterica, H&H, and other brands as well. Others, like SG, GH for example, I'll always smell caramel and butterscotch. I guess it's just the way my nose works.
> 
> ...


I almost forgot, Hearth and Home DOES have that smell too. I just haven't had it in such a long time I forgot. Thanks for the memory boot WWhermit!


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## kozzman555 (Sep 10, 2011)

Haha holy crap! i never noticed this until i read this post. As soon as I did i popped open my grey havens can and took a whiff. I got a hint of ketchup! Well played OP. Well played


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## Stonedog (Mar 9, 2011)

Well, I wasn't trying to ruin it for anyone. Was wondering if the smell went away. Maybe it will eventually but it came back to my batch of GH after I transfered it back to it mason jar.

I've not noticed this in an H&H blends(anni kake, VA spice, night train?). I guess we all pick up different things...


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## HWiebe (Jul 13, 2010)

I have a tin of MacClelland Dominican Glory and that's how I describe it - Ketchup! Luckily it tastes fine with no hint of the universal condiment.


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## Brinson (Oct 28, 2007)

Soon the smell will be pleasant to you and it will immediately make you happy. You might even smell the tin when its empty and are waiting for your next order to arrive...


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## WWhermit (Nov 30, 2008)

Brinson said:


> Soon the smell will be pleasant to you and it will immediately make you happy. *You might even smell the tin when its empty and are waiting for your next order to arrive...*


Been there, occasionally do that!!

WWhermit
ipe:


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## Mister Moo (Sep 8, 2005)

Farmers have answered all questions about vinegar scent in fermenting vegetals.

What the Smells from Silages Can Tell You


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## indigosmoke (Sep 1, 2009)

Mister Moo said:


> Farmers have answered all questions about vinegar scent in fermenting vegetals.
> 
> What the Smells from Silages Can Tell You


Another moooooovelous contribution from the master. Very interesting.


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## quo155 (Aug 10, 2010)

:fish2: I'm looking for something with a hint of Mustard as I am more of a "yellow fellow" fan!


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## freestoke (Feb 13, 2011)

indigosmoke said:


> Another moooooovelous contribution from the master. Very interesting.


Couldn't quite figure out whether aging that creates vinegar was a good thing or a bad thing for tobacco, though. Bad for corn, but good for tobacco?


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## CWL (Mar 25, 2010)

Mister Moo said:


> Farmers have answered all questions about vinegar scent in fermenting vegetals.
> 
> What the Smells from Silages Can Tell You


Are you expecting us cityfolk to know what "silage" means? I had to look it up before my brain hurt again.



> from Wikipedia
> Silage is fermented, high-moisture fodder that can be fed to ruminants (cud-chewing animals like cattle and sheep)[1] or used as a biofuel feedstock for anaerobic digesters. It is fermented and stored in a process called ensiling or silaging, and is usually made from grass crops, including corn (maize), sorghum or other cereals, using the entire green plant (not just the grain). Silage can be made from many field crops, and special terms may be used depending on type (oatlage for oats, haylage for alfalfa - but see below for the different British use of the term haylage).[2]
> Silage is made either by placing cut green vegetation in a silo, by piling it in a large heap covered with plastic sheet, or by wrapping large bales in plastic film.


"ruminants"? I know what a "replicant" is...


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## User Name (Feb 11, 2011)

CWL said:


> "ruminants"? I know what a "replicant" is...


I swear to god my neighbor is a replicant...


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## CWL (Mar 25, 2010)

What kind of replicant?

This kind? 









Or this?









Maybe someone smoke-friendly?


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## User Name (Feb 11, 2011)

Definitely Roy Batty


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## quo155 (Aug 10, 2010)

CWL said:


> What kind of replicant?
> 
> This kind?
> 
> ...


Ohhhh! One of my all time favorite movies...Blade Runner!!!

Me like!

Sorry...I'm will now get :focus:


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## Stonedog (Mar 9, 2011)

Others have said it and I just experienced it a few minutes ago. The ketchup scent isn't specific to McClelland's VA blends. I just opened a jar of Hearth and Home Virginia Spice (awesome vaper+cigar leaf blend) and got a bit of the sweet vinegar/tomato aroma. I hadn't noticed it in the past. I think my head cold is preventing me from detecting other nuances from the tin note that normally mask the "ketchup".


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## freestoke (Feb 13, 2011)

Stonedog said:


> Others have said it and I just experienced it a few minutes ago. The ketchup scent isn't specific to McClelland's VA blends. I just opened a jar of Hearth and Home Virginia Spice (awesome vaper+cigar leaf blend) and got a bit of the sweet vinegar/tomato aroma.


H&H has to get their blending tobacco from somewhere. I'd guess that the Virginia in Virginia Spice is one of the McClelland bulks.


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## Brinson (Oct 28, 2007)

Virginia Spice is amazing.


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## Stonedog (Mar 9, 2011)

Brinson said:


> Virginia Spice is amazing.


Not to pull my own thread off track, but SmokingPipes has 8oz tin of this for $20. An amazing deal in my opinion, it will be added to my next order for sure.


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## Marc Romero (Aug 13, 2011)

A post from Douglas over at pipes.org from 2004 that will answer your questions and concerns about McClelland Virginias and if you ever go to a pipe show and have the opportunity to talk with Mike or Mary McNeil of McClelland Tobacco Company you will learn a lot about the craftsmanship and quality that is McClelland Matured Virginias.


The ketchup odor associated with McClellands is a perennial topic. There have been many threads devoted to it on ASP. Sensitivity to it seems to vary and almost all agree that the tobacco does not taste of ‘ketchup’. Some have suggested that some additive is responsible for the odor. McClellands has denied this. I personally find the scent interesting – definitely not ketchup, but it often makes my mouth water (I'm a big fan of McClellands tobaccos esp their Va flakes). The odor does seem to be reported only with McClellands and most usually with their Va tobaccos. There are two threads on ASP (which you can google for) – 2001 “Does Ketchup ruin the blend”, 2003 “The source of all ketchup”. Both make for interesting reading. In the 2001 thread Dave Windsor of Bufflehead (McClelland mfg Dave’s tobaccos) asked McClelland to respond. Bottom line: McClelland says the odor is a natural by-product of leaf fermentation. Here is the snipped text that occurs in both threads referenced: 

“The posting "Does the ketchup ruin the blend" just jumped out at me. One is entitled to express their viewpoint be it a question or a statement, this is good. However this one is just misinformed and I feel that it should be addressed. 

I picked up the phone and suggested to the McClelland folks that we address this Posting. It did not take much encouragement. If you prefer bottom lines, there is no ketchup used in any of their blends what so ever. 

McClelland buys and ages their leaf in their storage building in the state of North Carolina for three to five years. During this period of time there occurs a natural "sweating" of the high sugar content leaf. 

The next step is to ship the aged leaf to their factory in Kansas City where it is pressed and further aged in cake form for a period of time. Than it is further aged, in their tins, for one to two years before shipping to retailers. 

The aroma, or imagined taste, is in reality a natural fermentation that takes place during this entire ageing process. Their tobaccos are of the best of high grade and quality with a very high sugar content, which enables this "natural" process to occur. 

Having smoked, selling and enjoying their tobaccos since their inception as a tobacco company, I would find it hard to believe after selecting and buying the best of tobacco leaf available each year, than aging, storing, pressing and packaging that they would use "ketchup" or any other flavoring. Thus my call for clarification and enlightment for myself and hopefully for the reader of this posting.


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## JuanOrez (Apr 15, 2011)

Marc Romero said:


> A post from Douglas over at pipes.org from 2004 that will answer your questions and concerns about McClelland Virginias and if you ever go to a pipe show and have the opportunity to talk with Mike or Mary McNeil of McClelland Tobacco Company you will learn a lot about the craftsmanship and quality that is McClelland Matured Virginias.
> 
> The ketchup odor associated with McClellands is a perennial topic. There have been many threads devoted to it on ASP. Sensitivity to it seems to vary and almost all agree that the tobacco does not taste of 'ketchup'. Some have suggested that some additive is responsible for the odor. McClellands has denied this. I personally find the scent interesting - definitely not ketchup, but it often makes my mouth water (I'm a big fan of McClellands tobaccos esp their Va flakes). The odor does seem to be reported only with McClellands and most usually with their Va tobaccos. There are two threads on ASP (which you can google for) - 2001 "Does Ketchup ruin the blend", 2003 "The source of all ketchup". Both make for interesting reading. In the 2001 thread Dave Windsor of Bufflehead (McClelland mfg Dave's tobaccos) asked McClelland to respond. Bottom line: McClelland says the odor is a natural by-product of leaf fermentation. Here is the snipped text that occurs in both threads referenced:
> 
> ...


This is a great post. I enjoy the smell of tobacco from the tin regardless of manufacturer or aroma. Very few tin notes are displeasing to me. With that said, rarely does the tin aroma carry over to the flavor of the smoke. McClleland is a high quality brand and I enjoy their nuances. Again, good post sir.


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## Stonedog (Mar 9, 2011)

Great post Marc, thanks for adding that!!! RG bump on the way...


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## ChronoB (Nov 4, 2007)

Very informative post, Marc. Unfortunately, it still does nothing to explain why McClelland blends develop (since they assure us the scent does not come from an additive) the vinegar/ketchup aroma. I see nothing unique in the aging steps they mentioned. Many aged straight virgnias or blended virginias develop sour, fermented aromas after aging, either prior to or after tinning. But nothing I've heard of has that distinctive McClelland smell. I guess it will remain a mystery.


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## Thirston (Feb 2, 2011)

Great post but yeah, still a mystery. 
I'm sort of in the additive camp, but dunno.


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## InsidiousTact (Dec 3, 2010)

ChronoB said:


> Very informative post, Marc. Unfortunately, it still does nothing to explain why McClelland blends develop (since they assure us the scent does not come from an additive) the vinegar/ketchup aroma. I see nothing unique in the aging steps they mentioned. Many aged straight virgnias or blended virginias develop sour, fermented aromas after aging, either prior to or after tinning. But nothing I've heard of has that distinctive McClelland smell. I guess it will remain a mystery.


Idk, McC seems to age a lot longer than I've heard other companies doing, and it seems they've got a very particular process. Maybe it's the particular environment that produces a unique smell? Or perhaps there's a higher humidity in some of their aging warehouses than other places have? I'm of the opinion that it's the process and not an additive that produces that unique aroma, or maybe other companies create that aroma but just air out their blends before tinning while McC doesn't.


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## Marc Romero (Aug 13, 2011)

It's no mystery, it's a process: 

The scent is a byproduct of fermentation. You're smelling complexes that have acetic acid & other acetates in them. That starts when they sweat the leaf in stacks in their warehouses. All manufacturers that buy Virginia, Burley, and cigar leaf do this. And it does ferment. The difference is that McClelland doesn't seem to case the Virginia or if they do it is very light. They retain that natural fermented scent.


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## ChronoB (Nov 4, 2007)

Marc Romero said:


> It's no mystery, it's a process:
> 
> The scent is a byproduct of fermentation. You're smelling complexes that have acetic acid & other acetates in them. That starts when they sweat the leaf in stacks in their warehouses. All manufacturers that buy Virginia, Burley, and cigar leaf do this. And it does ferment. The difference is that McClelland doesn't seem to case the Virginia or if they do it is very light. They retain that natural fermented scent.


Do you know for a fact that their virginias get little to no casing, or what level it is in comparison to other blenders? I've yet to see anything that shows the way they process and age their viriginias is significantly different that anyone else. Ergo, there's nothing that overtly explains that trademark McClelland smell.


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## Mister Moo (Sep 8, 2005)

Marc Romero said:


> ...The aroma, or imagined taste, is in reality a natural fermentation that takes place during this entire ageing process. Their tobaccos are of the best of high grade and quality with a very high sugar content, which enables this "natural" process to occur.
> 
> ...Thus my call for clarification and enlightment for myself and hopefully for the reader of this posting.












I remain a bit mystified not that McC smell like vinegar/ketchup but why others don't. I've been around tons of tons of virginia brightleaf (my pic, above) and it never hints of acetic acid - it just smells deeply tobacco and sweet; warehoused leaf in my area, however, is predominantly less than a year old and it is stored pretty dry before going to (cigarette) auction. And I've been around a lot of silage (wetter) and have sometimes detected acetic acid hanging around the heaps. So, if you get your age, moisture and compression just so, the heap produces acetic acid and ethanol and it smells vinegar-sweet, aka ketchup smell.

Question isn't why it smells the way it does - question is, why is McC tobacco fermented just so and nobody elses?


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## Zogg (Aug 31, 2010)

is it more vinegary or ketchupy? i can see myself liking a vinegary smoke to change stuff up on occasion but i hate ketchup lol!


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