# Cubans are stronger



## szyzk (Nov 27, 2010)

Who started this theory? In the past month I've had a dozen guys come into the shop - infrequent smokers, but experienced enough to recognize the bigger NC brands - who have wanted help picking out a cigar but, in their words, "nothing as strong as a Cuban." A few even went so far to exaggerate wildly in the humidor what the strength of a Cuban would do to a person who smoked it (ie, doubling over, feigning passing out, etc)! I was told a few times that, "I smoked one while in Canada and it knocked me right over."

Did I miss a poorly written expose in Cigar Aficionado misinforming the general public of the gunpowder-esque qualities of Cuban tobacco? Are these people smoking twine & tree bark-filled fakes and confusing the harshness with power?


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## Mante (Dec 25, 2009)

LMFAO Andrew, No, Cuban cigars are not stronger in my experience & I think many are led astray. Cuban cigars are about finesse, class, taste & developed palates. Many espouse such things but miss the point. Some will never get it but that does not really matter as long as they enjoy their cigars.


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## Poneill272 (Oct 29, 2010)

I heard Cubans are rolled with black powder so they burn faster too...just sayin...oke:


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## Mante (Dec 25, 2009)

Poneill272 said:


> I heard Cubans are rolled with black powder so they burn faster too...just sayin...oke:


Ummmm, that must be the short, most use white powder. LOL


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## Michigan_Moose (Oct 11, 2011)

Hmm kinda funny, I think they were smoking fakes and that crazzy grass and hay is mucking with them.


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## asmartbull (Aug 16, 2009)

When someone who smokes most NC's wants to to try a CC,
I usually give them a Boli or Party and they are all surprised with the lack of 
power and the fullness of flavor.
Sadly a lot of NC guys get the 2 confused or associate flavor with levels of pepper.


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## sengjc (Nov 15, 2010)

If by "stronger" you mean more flavourful, then yes.

I think the "gunpowder" reference may really be referring to the explosion of flavour from smoking a CC. 

You may find that the more "powerful" CCs tend to be spicy or raw ala chilli as opposed to NCs which tend to be peppery.

Just an observation I would venture based on personal experience.


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## szyzk (Nov 27, 2010)

Tashaz said:


> LMFAO Andrew, No, Cuban cigars are not stronger in my experience & I think many are led astray. Cuban cigars are about finesse, class, taste & developed palates.





asmartbull said:


> When someone who smokes most NC's wants to to try a CC,
> I usually give them a Boli or Party and they are all surprised with the lack of
> power and the fullness of flavor.


My response to Warren's statement is exactly that, Al - I would look to Bolivar and Partagas as being the "strong" cigars coming out of Cuba, but they're certainly not powerful. And what surprises me is that the guys who come into the shop saying all of this will then buy some cheap cigar from our bundle table and enjoy it to the nub - and these cigars are probably the harshest, fullest flavor (not good flavor, mind you, just full) sticks we have in the store!

Warren's absolutely correct that Cubans are about finesse, class & taste. I try to correct the rumors but I have to be careful with how I handle these questions in the store.



Poneill272 said:


> I heard Cubans are rolled with black powder so they burn faster too...just sayin...oke:


Black powder and lava... It's that good Cuban lava that give them their edge. :lol:


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## szyzk (Nov 27, 2010)

sengjc said:


> If by "stronger" you mean more flavourful, then yes.


Judging how these guys act, I'm guessing they mean a combination of power (nicotine) and strength of flavor. Both can be beaten by many of the NCs we have on the shelves - and that's why I wonder where this misconception started. For full-on power, Cuba is quite lacking when compared to what's legal here in the states.

Maybe in my joking I was actually right - these guys bought a "Cuban" (actually just a rolled up sock) and when they smoked it, they confused what they were tasting with "wow, power!"

Two of my favorites are the PSD4 and HdM Epicure No 1. Both are shining examples to me of the opposite ends of CCs; the PSD4 does seem to explode with flavor but it's certainly not a knock-you-on-your-butt cigar, and the HdM to me is so delicate but with loads of sweet flavors.


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## sengjc (Nov 15, 2010)

szyzk said:


> ...For full-on power, Cuba is quite lacking when compared to what's legal here in the states...


I see, in that case, I would recommend a young Ramon Allones Gigantes. Certainly did it for me in the power stakes. :lol:


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## StogieNinja (Jul 29, 2009)

I'm assuming they smoked fakes.


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## szyzk (Nov 27, 2010)

sengjc said:


> I see, in that case, I would recommend a young Ramon Allones Gigantes. Certainly did it for me in the power stakes. :lol:


Ha! I haven't had one, but I quite prefer the lack of power in my CCs. It's something that not many NCs have gotten a good grip on, and I assume that's because this market is still geared towards people who want something bigger & badder.


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## TommyTree (Jan 7, 2012)

I bet banana leaf filler is very full strength.


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## joshbhs04 (May 30, 2011)

I do remember when I was first reviewing cc's for myself it was hard to get away from the nc descriptors. Not as time has gone by I almost tell the difference just by looking at them. But as I look at some of my first reviews of cc's I never wrote that they where powerful/strong..


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## bpegler (Mar 30, 2006)

RyJ Cazadores must be more plentiful than I imagine. Havanas in general are about nuances rather than power.


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## szyzk (Nov 27, 2010)

TommyTree said:


> I bet banana leaf filler is very full strength.


! :lol:



bpegler said:


> Havanas in general are about nuances rather than power.


Exactly, Bob, and that's why I'm confused as to where this misconception came from. As I said, I try to correct these notions when I can but I have to tread lightly in the retail environment. Funny enough, none of the same customers have any preconceived, pigeon-holed statements about the NCs we have for sale... Just that CCs are nuclear-fueled jetpacks!


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## KcJason1 (Oct 20, 2010)

Sounds like something a b&m owner in the US would say to discourage people from trying them.. One I hear is "they aren't that good. Or their nothing special" either your full of it, or you have never had a real one.. Possibly you haven't had more than a handful before making up your mind as well!


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## szyzk (Nov 27, 2010)

KcJason1 said:


> Sounds like something a b&m owner in the US would say to discourage people from trying them.. One I hear is "they aren't that good. Or their nothing special" either your full of it, or you have never had a real one.. Possibly you haven't had more than a handful before making up your mind as well!


I have heard so many stories from customers! The bulk of Cuban tobacco is actually grown in Honduras, Cuban manufacturers are actually owned by secret hands of their NC counterparts and make cigars to the specifications of the NC companies, (as you pointed out) tobacco is tobacco and they're no different than any other cigars, the cigars sold on the island are completely different than the same cigars (by name) that are sold in countries where they're legal... It goes on and on. That stuff I can attribute to people just never having smoked them - ignorance can be forgivable.


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## sdlaird (Mar 15, 2011)

szyzk said:


> Ha! I haven't had one, but I quite prefer the lack of power in my CCs. It's something that not many NCs have gotten a good grip on, and I assume that's because this market is still geared towards people who want something bigger & badder.


That is the most enjoyable thing about the few CCs I have had is the lack of nic power. I do see a strong relationship between flavor and power in NCs, but with the CCs you can get great flavor without the nic kick.

Why am I still buying NCs?????


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## JGD (Mar 2, 2009)

My guess is that they have smoked fakes- I have a good friend that will refuse to smoke a Cohiba because his uncle in Miami gave him one and it was way too string for him...


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## Nathan King (Nov 4, 2010)

Richer and more flavorful? Yes. Stronger? NO!


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## BMack (Dec 8, 2010)

I think it's because the thought that Cuban tobacco is better, therefore they THINK that means stronger. Like if a pot head says I've got some good ish, that means stronger. Then they smoke one and they already have this thought in their head and the mind does it's magic. Just my opinion.


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## TonyBrooklyn (Jan 28, 2010)

Gotta agree with Bob the Cazadores outside of Custom Rolls are the only strong Cuban Cigars i have ever seen or heard of!


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## KaChong (Jan 1, 2012)

I tried a Cohiba Secretos last week and found it to be quite a tasty stick for such a small smoke. Their maduro line is hardly typical of CCs though. Maybe they smoked a Chinese dog hair cigar. I had a pack of Chinese cigarettes that had a picture of two power stations on it. The graphic commemorated an important power station built in the region where the cigs were rolled. Those things were harsh and powerful smokes that belied the power of a coal burning generator. I have to admit, dog hair has a lot of nicotine in it!


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## hoosiers2006 (Nov 23, 2010)

Had a couple of guys that were over to smoke tell me that the cc's I had weren't anything like the ones they had in Mexico, not nearly as strong, blah blah blah. Of course they bought their real cc's in a dark alley behind this little bar on the outskirts of town. Guys blowing off about the strongest Cuban they've ever tried, oh well, I got a laugh out of the story.


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## szyzk (Nov 27, 2010)

hoosiers2006 said:


> Had a couple of guys that were over to smoke tell me that the cc's I had weren't anything like the ones they had in Mexico, not nearly as strong, blah blah blah. Of course they bought their real cc's in a dark alley behind this little bar on the outskirts of town. Guys blowing off about the strongest Cuban they've ever tried, oh well, I got a laugh out of the story.


That settles it, then. The guys who have actually smoked "CCs" who claim them to be like getting hit upside the head with an elephant trunk are smoking something decidedly non-CC. Then, they tell the guys who haven't smoked them "Holy moly! Smoking a Cuban is like getting hit upside the head with an elephant trunk!" And thus the misinformation is spread...


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## KaChong (Jan 1, 2012)

I think some people pick the wrong things to brag about, like the strongest whiskey they've drunk. Certainly some cask strength scotches are quite good, but rarely is a fine scotch judged by it's alcohol content. It is likely that szyzk witnessed a bizarre dick measuring contest where the winner was to withstand the highest tolerance to contact with a soldering iron rather than the longest endurance with Jessica Alba at the other end.


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## szyzk (Nov 27, 2010)

KaChong said:


> I think some people pick the wrong things to brag about, like the strongest whiskey they've drunk. Certainly some cask strength scotches are quite good, but rarely is a fine scotch judged by it's alcohol content. It is likely that szyzk witnessed a bizarre dick measuring contest where the winner was to withstand the highest tolerance to contact with a soldering iron rather than the longest endurance with Jessica Alba at the other end.


Not quite, but I understand what you're talking about because I've seen it before.

To clarify, these are multiple separate instances with guys that don't smoke together. They're regular customers but not regular lounge members, so this misinformation isn't spreading between this group - they're picking it up independent of the store. And, they all wanted to stay away from strong cigars, specifically asking for cigars as un-Cuban as I could muster.

This would be a lot easier if I could just hand them all the real thing... Not gonna happen though.


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## tpharkman (Feb 20, 2010)

Nathan King said:


> Richer and more flavorful? Yes. Stronger? NO!


You hit the nail on the head. The richness of some cuban tobacco is often mistaken as power. Double chocolate chocolate cake is rich--Habaneros are powerful.


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## TonyBrooklyn (Jan 28, 2010)

hoosiers2006 said:


> Had a couple of guys that were over to smoke tell me that the cc's I had weren't anything like the ones they had in Mexico, not nearly as strong, blah blah blah. Of course they bought their real cc's in a dark alley behind this little bar on the outskirts of town. Guys blowing off about the strongest Cuban they've ever tried, oh well, I got a laugh out of the story.


Nothings stronger than those Glass-Top box Fauxiba's its all the pubic hair rolled in lol!


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## gasdocok (May 14, 2011)

TonyBrooklyn said:


> Nothings stronger than those Glass-Top box Fauxiba's its all the pubic hair rolled in lol!


u


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## sengjc (Nov 15, 2010)

tpharkman said:


> You hit the nail on the head. The richness of some cuban tobacco is often mistaken as power. Double chocolate chocolate cake is rich--Habaneros are powerful.


I don't think it is mistaken, just misreferrenced. 

Never tried the Partagas Habaneros before, that good huh? Must seek some out.

I am much impressed with the Partagad Super Partagas, really good smoking, all that earthy Partagas flavours in such a well priced stick. No surprises if Partagas has another stellar bargain stick in their portfolio.


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## Damselnotindistress (Aug 7, 2011)

If this friend truly wants something not so strong he needs to seek out a candela green smoke - Urghh!(sorry!) On the other hand he'd be very happy with an El Rey del Mundo or Fonseca for something almost non-descript. IMHO Partagas, Bolivar and Ramon Allones are NICE heavy Habanos, but not with the KO strength of a Padron Family Anniversary or a Camacho Diplo or Coyolar smoke


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## rhetorik (Jun 6, 2011)

Yeah if anything I would say my cc's are less powerful in general than my NC's. I would not be surprised if these rumors are being spread by people that have smoked fakes.


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## Rays98GoVols (Sep 22, 2008)

Tashaz said:


> LMFAO Andrew, No, Cuban cigars are not stronger in my experience & I think many are led astray. Cuban cigars are about finesse, class, taste & developed palates. Many espouse such things but miss the point. Some will never get it but that does not really matter as long as they enjoy their cigars.


I agree with everything above. I feel that NC's are stronger but one dimensional.


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## Stinkdyr (Jun 19, 2009)

People are clowns sent here to entertain you............let them.


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## bpegler (Mar 30, 2006)

Stinkdyr said:


> People are clowns sent here to entertain you............let them.


I find this neither helpful, on topic, or even funny. Why on earth would you resurrect this thread if you didn't have something useful to post?


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## KaChong (Jan 1, 2012)

bpegler said:


> I find this neither helpful, on topic, or even funny. Why on earth would you resurrect this thread if you didn't have something useful to post?


Ok, I'll try to help.

Has anyone here tried Nat Sherman cigars?

Nat Sherman Providing Legendary Cigars since 1930

A friend of mine handed me one of their Carnegie cigars. I liked it quite a lot. Very mild subtle notes and a kind of sweetness that was very much like a CC. I'll have to get some more, but I think it's fairly close to a Bolivar fino without the burn issues.


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## Nathan King (Nov 4, 2010)

KaChong said:


> Ok, I'll try to help.
> 
> Has anyone here tried Nat Sherman cigars?
> 
> ...


I did a review on a Carnegie here. It's a nice cigar but is not in the same league as a Bolivar Belicoso Fino (doesn't have the complexity).


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## z0diac (May 18, 2010)

szyzk said:


> Who started this theory? In the past month I've had a dozen guys come into the shop - infrequent smokers, but experienced enough to recognize the bigger NC brands - who have wanted help picking out a cigar but, in their words, "nothing as strong as a Cuban." A few even went so far to exaggerate wildly in the humidor what the strength of a Cuban would do to a person who smoked it (ie, doubling over, feigning passing out, etc)! I was told a few times that, "I smoked one while in Canada and it knocked me right over."
> 
> Did I miss a poorly written expose in Cigar Aficionado misinforming the general public of the gunpowder-esque qualities of Cuban tobacco? Are these people smoking twine & tree bark-filled fakes and confusing the harshness with power?


It's got to just be your area 

From my experience, as a whole, Cubans tend to be a lot milder than NCs. Then again, most of the NCs I buy are of the $5 variety so maybe they're just way too green and need to sit.


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## szyzk (Nov 27, 2010)

z0diac said:


> It's got to just be your area
> 
> From my experience, as a whole, Cubans tend to be a lot milder than NCs. Then again, most of the NCs I buy are of the $5 variety so maybe they're just way too green and need to sit.


After throwing this post up (mostly in frustration - I would love to set these people straight, but it's slightly illegal :lol I did a few searches and, lo and behold, I came up with a buffet of links to websites that either PROMOTE the idea that Cubans are "strong", or they correctly debunk the idea.

Obviously it's misinformation that has gotten around as "truth", which is sad. The strongest CCs I've ever smoked - Partagas - still don't come close to the average strength of NCs. And, it goes without saying, the flavors are so more artfully intertwined that there is nothing even (legally) comparable I can point customers to.

All that I'm left with is trying to fix the misconception with the hope that the customers walk out a little more knowledgeable!


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## kumanchu (Mar 16, 2011)

KcJason1 said:


> Sounds like something a b&m owner in the US would say to discourage people from trying them.. One I hear is "they aren't that good. Or their nothing special" either your full of it, or you have never had a real one.. Possibly you haven't had more than a handful before making up your mind as well!


well, to be fair, i've had less than stellar CC's before and if they were the ONLY ones i'd tried; i'd be in total agreement that "they're nothing special".

I think a good cigar is a good cigar; regardless of where it's from. To generalize and say that NC's are powerful and cubans are all especially good cigars would be flat out wrong. there are counter examples of both.

I also think the nic strength note on most NC's respective to CC's is exaggerated by the fact that many people smoke NC's when they are young. Even CC's can pack a powerful nic punch when they are young; it's just that they usually have a number of years on them when you smoke them.


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## Hermit (Aug 5, 2008)

szyzk said:


> Who started this theory?


Somebody who's never smoked The Chisel. :lol:


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