# With new president comes new cigar tax



## baba (Nov 5, 2007)

With a change of Presidents comes a new push to get a cigar tax like last year.
Obama has promised as first order of business to push SCHIP through in the first 3 months of his term. This could raise cigar taxes up to $10 per cigar.
This was the child heal care package that would give insurance for children to families that had incomes 3 times over the poverty level; up to $80,000 a year. 
If the senate and house and new president really wanted to help with health care, I feel a better bill would be to cover all families at or under the poverty level. Why just childre, and why over the poverty level.
I would agree to some tax to help all at the poverty level, but not just for children, and not such a high tax that would close cigar and tobacco shops.
If the tax goes through shops will close, manufactures will close, unemployment will go up, and tax revenue will decrease.
Looks like I will be joining CRA, building a walkin humidor, and buying as many boxes that I can before the tax is enacted.


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## mhlatke (Oct 13, 2007)

I'm with you bro! The whole SCHIP bill is ludicrous and destined to fail. All it will do is drive smokers away or underground - and then where will the funding come from?. Personally, I have a solid stash and will continue to add to it - while I still can - but I will not pay the outrageous prices projected when this passes. My cigars are for enjoyment and I will not go broke over them. I will cut back my smoking and find other ways to get sticks when I can. One thing I have learned is that in America, there's always loopholes - and things just happen to fall off trucks all the time (or so I've heard) :biggrin::spy:


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## Coop D (Oct 19, 2008)

time to stock up!!!


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## GotaCohiba (Aug 20, 2007)

Buy now boys and girls!!!!!


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## baba (Nov 5, 2007)

I am going to check out an Indian smoke shop, and see if they get around federal taxes. If they do - sorry, I can not and will not pay $16 for a six dollar ciar.


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## Camacho Junior (May 29, 2008)

Holy crap!!! I'm with baba I'm not paying 16 dollaz for no cigar. WOW


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## mhlatke (Oct 13, 2007)

baba said:


> I am going to check out an Indian smoke shop, and see if they get around federal taxes. If they do - sorry, I can not and will not pay $16 for a six dollar ciar.


Interesting angle - nice!


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## Damsel-cl (Feb 12, 2008)

in WA that's where I buy my sticks...at a reserve Cigar Shop...and I can still smoke in the lounge...

poop poopy doop...


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## BigBuddha76 (Mar 15, 2005)

a good thing would be to start the pressure now on the reps...write letters, call, make them remember that you are a voter as well


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## GolfNut (Jun 29, 2008)

baba said:


> With a change of Presidents comes a new push to get a cigar tax like last year.
> Obama has promised as first order of business to push SCHIP through in the first 3 months of his term. *This could raise cigar taxes up to $10 per cigar.*
> This was the child heal care package that would give insurance for children to families that had incomes 3 times over the poverty level; up to $80,000 a year.
> If the senate and house and new president really wanted to help with health care, I feel a better bill would be to cover all families at or under the poverty level. Why just childre, and why over the poverty level.
> ...


I certainly hope they figure a way to get cigars out of this, but it seems doubtful. However, from what I've read, how will we see a $10 per stick increase? the way it's worded there would be a $3 cap per cigar:

" The Senate version, H.R. 976, currently proposes to increase the OTP excise tax rate on cigars to 53.12 percent with a $3 cap per individual cigar. " Source IPCPR

Granted, that would take a $6 cigar to $9 which still sucks ass but would not likely cause us all to give up the hobby.

That said, we'll be doing all we can to stock up in advance!!


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## mikejh-cl (Jun 19, 2007)

thats his first order of business in office? ridiculous. is the goal of CRA to get cigars exempted from the tax?


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## Deuce Da Masta (Dec 4, 2006)

GolfNut said:


> I certainly hope they figure a way to get cigars out of this, but it seems doubtful. However, from what I've read, how will we see a $10 per stick increase? the way it's worded there would be a $3 cap per cigar:
> 
> " The Senate version, H.R. 976, currently proposes to increase the OTP excise tax rate on cigars to 53.12 percent with a $3 cap per individual cigar. " Source IPCPR
> 
> ...


The problem is, this tax raises the price of a $6 cigar to a $9 cigar before state taxes. Michigan has a 32% tax on cigars, plus 6% sales tax. Your looking at $12+ for a $6 stick! That alone will drive a lot of people to stop smoking the "occasional" cigar and put a lot of smaller B&M's out of business.


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## Camacho Junior (May 29, 2008)

I was looking it up today and there are some that are worded as a 3 dollar cap and some that are worded as a 10 dollar cap. CRA said a 6,000% tax increase. Either way it's before state tax. Jeez!


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## GotaCohiba (Aug 20, 2007)

I talked the wife into letting me go ahead and spend the next 2 yrs cigar budget before he takes office.
I see this as the end of a good thing for many, most of the smaller B&M's will fold.


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## GotaCohiba (Aug 20, 2007)

BigBuddha76 said:


> a good thing would be to start the pressure now on the reps...write letters, call, make them remember that you are a voter as well


Congrats to all those that voted Democrat!!!!!!


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## baba (Nov 5, 2007)

BigBuddha76 said:


> a good thing would be to start the pressure now on the reps...write letters, call, make them remember that you are a voter as well


I have tried that with our reps. I got an email back saying that it is a hard decision, but too bad.


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## mikejh-cl (Jun 19, 2007)

the problem is, with all logic of the bill aside, people who are concerned about how the tax will affect them will probably always be in the minority to people who want to see tax money spent on health care for uninsured kids


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## baba (Nov 5, 2007)

mikejh said:


> the problem is, with all logic of the bill aside, people who are concerned about how the tax will affect them will probably always be in the minority to people who want to see tax money spent on health care for uninsured kids


You are probably right. Unfortunately a high tax would make people loose jobs. Sales would drop dramatically, stores and manufacturers would close. 
A reasonable tax for a reasonable bill would be nice. A bill that would cover all those at or below the poverty level. A tax that would not cause people to loose their jobs.


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## mhlatke (Oct 13, 2007)

baba said:


> I have tried that with our reps. I got an email back saying that it is a hard decision, but too bad.


At least he understood you. My representative sent me back a form letter THANKING me for SUPPORTING the bill?!?! :fish:


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## Starsky (Mar 29, 2007)

Higher taxes, no more cigar sales, no more cigar sales, no tax money for "the children". Are they really this slow in the head?


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## GotaCohiba (Aug 20, 2007)

Starsky said:


> Higher taxes, no more cigar sales, no more cigar sales, no tax money for "the children". Are they really this slow in the head?


Yes they are!!!!


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## nativetexan_1 (Jan 1, 2008)

Forget poverty level, below poverty level, or above poverty level. I just want to know where in the Constitution Congress believes they get the authortity to spend tax money on health care for anybody!!


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## leafandale (Jan 18, 2008)

Camacho Junior said:


> I was looking it up today and there are some that are worded as a 3 dollar cap and some that are worded as a 10 dollar cap. CRA said a 6,000% tax increase. Either way it's before state tax. Jeez!


The 10.00 cap was on the first go 'round. I believe that is long gone. The last go round was a 3.00 cap or 53% tax on the wholesale price. The current federal excise tax on a cigar is about a nickel. So a 6000% increase brings the nickel to about $3.



deuce said:


> The problem is, this tax raises the price of a $6 cigar to a $9 cigar before state taxes. Michigan has a 32% tax on cigars, plus 6% sales tax. Your looking at $12+ for a $6 stick! That alone will drive a lot of people to stop smoking the "occasional" cigar and put a lot of smaller B&M's out of business.


At the risk of sounding like my high school math teacher... In theory, a $6.00 cigar in Mich. costs the retailer $2.28. The Mich tobacco tax is added to that price giving you a "real" cost to the retailer of $3.00. The retailers margin is then added to that and that gives you the $6.00 cigar. Under the last SCHIP scenario of 53% tax, the base cost of the cigar, after Mich OTP tax of 32% would be $4.60. The retailer margin would be added and the result would be a $9.20 cigar that used to be a $6.00 cigar. Of course, 6% sales tax brings the final price to $9.75. Not a $12 stick, but still a hefty 54% hike over the previous price.

Whatever the final numbers are, we WILL be paying more for cigars by this spring. The only saving grace is that the economy will trump health care. If the economy continues to worsen, Obama may forgo any and all planned tax increases for at least the short term. He is already hinting that he may back off the corporate tax increases and the increases on the top 5% of wage earners. Many of the pundits were discussing this point after his news conference today.


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## DBCcigar (Apr 24, 2008)

They already said that the $10.00 PER CIGAR tax is not going to pass. They tried that last year....You MIGHT see $1.00 (or $2.00). I think that is going to be the least of our worries of what this new dumb a$$ is going to do!


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## GotaCohiba (Aug 20, 2007)

DBCcigar said:


> They already said that the $10.00 PER CIGAR tax is not going to pass. They tried that last year....You MIGHT see $1.00 (or $2.00). I think that is going to be the least of our worries of what this new dumb a$$ is going to do!


I totally agree with that last sentance.


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## GotaCohiba (Aug 20, 2007)

leafandale said:


> The 10.00 cap was on the first go 'round. I believe that is long gone. The last go round was a 3.00 cap or 53% tax on the wholesale price. The current federal excise tax on a cigar is about a nickel. So a 6000% increase brings the nickel to about $3.
> 
> At the risk of sounding like my high school math teacher... In theory, a $6.00 cigar in Mich. costs the retailer $2.28. The Mich tobacco tax is added to that price giving you a "real" cost to the retailer of $3.00. The retailers margin is then added to that and that gives you the $6.00 cigar. Under the last SCHIP scenario of 53% tax, the base cost of the cigar, after Mich OTP tax of 32% would be $4.60. The retailer margin would be added and the result would be a $9.20 cigar that used to be a $6.00 cigar. Of course, 6% sales tax brings the final price to $9.75. Not a $12 stick, but still a hefty 54% hike over the previous price.
> 
> Whatever the final numbers are, we WILL be paying more for cigars by this spring. The only saving grace is that the economy will trump health care. If the economy continues to worsen, Obama may forgo any and all planned tax increases for at least the short term. He is already hinting that he may back off the corporate tax increases and the increases on the top 5% of wage earners. Many of the pundits were discussing this point after his news conference today.


Stock up if you can for the long haul!!!


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## Deuce Da Masta (Dec 4, 2006)

leafandale said:


> The 10.00 cap was on the first go 'round. I believe that is long gone. The last go round was a 3.00 cap or 53% tax on the wholesale price. The current federal excise tax on a cigar is about a nickel. So a 6000% increase brings the nickel to about $3.
> 
> At the risk of sounding like my high school math teacher... In theory, a $6.00 cigar in Mich. costs the retailer $2.28. The Mich tobacco tax is added to that price giving you a "real" cost to the retailer of $3.00. The retailers margin is then added to that and that gives you the $6.00 cigar. Under the last SCHIP scenario of 53% tax, the base cost of the cigar, after Mich OTP tax of 32% would be $4.60. The retailer margin would be added and the result would be a $9.20 cigar that used to be a $6.00 cigar. Of course, 6% sales tax brings the final price to $9.75. Not a $12 stick, but still a hefty 54% hike over the previous price.
> 
> Whatever the final numbers are, we WILL be paying more for cigars by this spring. The only saving grace is that the economy will trump health care. If the economy continues to worsen, Obama may forgo any and all planned tax increases for at least the short term. He is already hinting that he may back off the corporate tax increases and the increases on the top 5% of wage earners. Many of the pundits were discussing this point after his news conference today.


You obviously dont frequent my locals


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## The EVP (Dec 21, 2007)

The new SCHIP bill is due to be voted on, if I remember correctly, September of 2009. As it stands now, the federal tax would be $3 per cigar. However, there is nothing stopping them from re-writting the bill and increasing it back to $10. A democratically controlled congress and house will pass that bill (they did it the last time around with ease....it was the veto override that they didn't have enough votes for). Obama most certainly will sign the bill into law. 

The sad thing is that the liberal left who sponsor the bill have no clue on economics. As Starsky posted earlier, this will cause most people to stop buying cigars, thus cutting the funding to the program. They will then find something else to tax. Liberal economics at it's best: 

(Tax now + Spend now) - Think Later = FAILURE


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## Tampadave (Oct 17, 2008)

ALL HAIL EMPEROR OBAMA, he knows what's best for the country and what's best for the children. Alas, say goodbye to this great Republic and Capitalism. "Say 'ello to my leetle friend" .....socialism.....


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## tx_tuff (Jun 16, 2007)

If it passes I will be putting my kids on the insurance and then that will give me a $550 dollar a month cigar fund that I will save on paying for insurance!


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## baba (Nov 5, 2007)

nativetexan_1 said:


> Forget poverty level, below poverty level, or above poverty level. I just want to know where in the Constitution Congress believes they get the authortity to spend tax money on health care for anybody!!


 I agree that the government role is questionable with health care. Unfortunately most of the people that voted for the new president elect believe it is the governments role to take care of us. Personally I think the governments role should be safety and roads - basic things, that is it.


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## GotaCohiba (Aug 20, 2007)

tx_tuff said:


> If it passes I will be putting my kids on the insurance and then that will give me a $550 dollar a month cigar fund that I will save on paying for insurance!


That's great for those in the right income range,but your profession should come with good insurance for the kids already.


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## tx_tuff (Jun 16, 2007)

Well I don't even come close to $80,000 a year! And yes I have good insurance but it cost me $550 a month, the County only pays for part of it. And I wasn't being serious I was being a smarta$$.


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## SMOKING HANDSOME DUDE (May 24, 2007)

tx_tuff said:


> If it passes I will be putting my kids on the insurance and then that will give me a $550 dollar a month cigar fund that I will save on paying for insurance!


Wow Frank I never thought about it that way. Whoo Hoo more cigar money!!

This bill is a bad idea. Frank's comment is a good one, but this is just another example of the government meddling in our lives. I would recommend writing your local congressman and letting them know how you feel about SCHIP. There are links right here on CL to make contact easier. We have to get involved in order to make things happen.


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## happy1 (Jun 29, 2007)

anyway you look at it, It sucks!!! It's not the government job to tell me that I have to pay for some lazy asses kid.This is just the start of Americans losing their civil liberties


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## leafandale (Jan 18, 2008)

deuce said:


> You obviously dont frequent my locals


Got some gougers up there, deuce?? I guess I was trying to put as positive a spin on your scenario as possible. We're going to have higher prices for sure... the question remains how much. Maybe I'm being optimistic. I guess we're still fortunate here in TN with a 6.6% OTP tax. Although I have heard some Republican lawmakers would like to take that to 15%.


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## leafandale (Jan 18, 2008)

GotaCohiba said:


> That's great for those in the right income range,but your profession should come with good insurance for the kids already.


But that's the problem with SCHIP. If you meet the income requirements *even though you already have private insurance*, you can elect to move them to the government run insurance plan. And under SCHIP, a child is up to 24 years of age. And don't forget about the children of illegal aliens who will also be covered.

The wording on SCHIP, as well as Obama's take on SCHIP, is "Low Income" and not "poverty." Those are two different income levels in America. In Obama's world rich is anyone making over $250,000 a year ($150,000 a year in Biden's world) and low income is anyone making less than that! :drum:


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## GotaCohiba (Aug 20, 2007)

leafandale said:


> But that's the problem with SCHIP. If you meet the income requirements *even though you already have private insurance*, you can elect to move them to the government run insurance plan. And under SCHIP, a child is up to 24 years of age. And don't forget about the children of illegal aliens who will also be covered.
> 
> The wording on SCHIP, as well as Obama's take on SCHIP, is "Low Income" and not "poverty." Those are two different income levels in America. In Obama's world rich is anyone making over $250,000 a year ($150,000 a year in Biden's world) and low income is anyone making less than that! :drum:


I'm fine when the government steps in and helps those in need get back on their feet, just not the freeloaders that stay there forever.
As for the illegal aliens, I'd rather not even get started.


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## GotaCohiba (Aug 20, 2007)

tx_tuff said:


> Well I don't even come close to $80,000 a year! And yes I have good insurance but it cost me $550 a month, the County only pays for part of it. And I wasn't being serious I was being a smarta$$.


Wife work?
What's going to kill a lot of people the $80,000 is combined household.
The scary part is I read somewhere that would include matching 401k contributions by your employer and pensions.
As far as you not making the $80,000, well I'll just state that civil servant jobs are way underpaid in my opinion.
Teachers, cops, fireman, etc.
We all need to ray: , because this country is falling apart!!!
Teachers in SC start out in the $30,000 yr range.
There's no way in hell I'd teach all those brats and thugs for 30k, the lack of discipline is killing the schools systems everywhere.
And if anyone reading this doesn't agree with discipline in schools, kiss my ass.


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## nativetexan_1 (Jan 1, 2008)

If we wait longer, will you tell us how you really feel?


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## GotaCohiba (Aug 20, 2007)

Just imagine when your child needs emergency care and there are 50 illegals and lazy asses in the emergency room with headaches or wanting a doctor excuse to avoid going to work after taking your job.


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## Humidor Minister (Oct 5, 2007)

You cigar makers better start making one LONG cigar we can cut to length.:jaw:


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## Humidor Minister (Oct 5, 2007)

I thought we would have learned when minium wage was raised. Prices went up, unemployment went up, quality went down and business turned to crap. What do you think will happen when taxes are increased. Same thing on a larger scale. Cigar prices will go up, sales will go down, unemployment will rise and businesses will close. Good news for the undeserving I guess.:yell::tape::noidea::faint::frusty: :rip: :anim_soapbox:


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## BigTex-cl (Nov 10, 2008)

I wish they'd leave the cigars alone and just tax the hell out of olde English and Brillo pads.


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## Deuce Da Masta (Dec 4, 2006)

leafandale said:


> Got some gougers up there, deuce?? I guess I was trying to put as positive a spin on your scenario as possible. We're going to have higher prices for sure... the question remains how much. Maybe I'm being optimistic. I guess we're still fortunate here in TN with a 6.6% OTP tax. Although I have heard some Republican lawmakers would like to take that to 15%.


Gougers is one way of putting it. :fish:


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## mc2712 (Mar 14, 2008)

Any amount of tax is not good, I don't care if $3 or $10 it is too much. When are these people going to learn the only way to raise REVENUE for governments is to LOWER TAXES, not raise them. The object is to get people to spend money, everytime taxes are rasied people STOP spending, that means no new REVENUE! Also I can take care of my kids myself!


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## cboor001 (Aug 6, 2008)

Hey guys, to Baba's question/comment about the reservation. Yes, the get around the high taxes. Living in N. Tx most of my life, it is very common for us Tx Yankees to run to the OK border for beer and smokes. If it works, it works. 3/2 beer is the same, just takes more to get the job done.:wazzapp:


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## mikejh-cl (Jun 19, 2007)

thats good news about the reservation shops, we have a few good ones here in WA state, they may be getting more of my business


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## TOJE (Jan 1, 2000)

As a rep in the biz this is not a good thing.......fight this as hard as you can. 

Many of us will be looking for new jobs if this law is passed. Just my 2 cents.


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## shrtcrt (Jan 29, 2006)

This will kill the industry. I have to think a complete idiot thought of this idea..

1) Ban people from smoking
2) Raise taxes on the purchase of smoking to fun health care

So that says they do not care about this health care. How about the people at the insurance companies chip in for this program. They make enough money from NOT paying for health care that they could donate a very small portion from each premium to fund this. 

What will I do with my free time if i cannot enjoy a fine cigar! BAH!


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## Humidor Minister (Oct 5, 2007)

What can we do as cigar smokers to fight this? Is there someone we can call or e-mail to voice our opinions and ideas? Cigar smoking is NOT cigarette smoking. We don't need breaks in the middle of the work day and we didn't do it in resturants. For the most part we keep to ourselves and our fellow cigar smokers. If they pass this BS, I'm smoking anywhere I can and when somebody whines I'll just say "I have to pay a 3 dollar tax to smoke this cigar so I'll smoke it where ever the hell I wan to smoke it":fish: If that tax dollar goes to the sidewalk. I'm paying for it so I'm using it how I see fit.:wazzapp:


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## drac (Feb 3, 2004)

cboor001 said:


> Hey guys, to Baba's question/comment about the reservation. Yes, the get around the high taxes. Living in N. Tx most of my life, it is very common for us Tx Yankees to run to the OK border for beer and smokes. If it works, it works. 3/2 beer is the same, just takes more to get the job done.:wazzapp:


The reservation will remain lower on the price due to lack of any state tobacco tax or sales tax. In referrnce to this proposed tax it will hit the manufacturer directly upon entry of product into this country. That means noone is exempt although the rest of us will see higher price increases due to tax on tax on tax. But yes the reservation prices will also go up. Not to mention a grave violation of C.A.F.T.A and thus the destruction of a middle class that exists in Nicaragua and Honduras due to the tobacco industry.


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## Kidknee (Jul 23, 2008)

*passed*

bill passed the other day.. .40 to $1 per cigar. $1 per pack of cigarettes. snuff was like a dollar a pound. pipe tobacco is moving from around a $1.09 to $2.89 or so per pound. Roll your own is being taxed around $25 dollars a pound(not a typo). Cigarillos are gonna go up a quarter a year over the next 4, and you pot heads are gonna have to pay an outrageous amount on your blunt wraps, but I forgot what that amount was. I guess it could be worse, but it still sucks.


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## KazzTheMurse (Aug 14, 2008)

the notice we got in the shop said a flat tax of 50 cents per stick?


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## leafandale (Jan 18, 2008)

KazzTheMurse said:


> the notice we got in the shop said a flat tax of 50 cents per stick?


No. It's a flat .40 cent per stick tax on cigars. That is the version that the House finance committee passed. The senate's version differs just slightly to make the rate .402 cents per cigar. The House and Senates versions differ only slightly, so there should not be any trouble with them coming together to get a compromise that Obama will sign. The only question is when. I thought I saw another thread on the board somewhere with all the SCHIP details in it. If you can't find the details, I've got them on my blog (it's in the signature).

The tax on cigarettes does not go up $1.00 a pack, it goes up TO $1.00 a pack. That's a .61 cent per pack increase. The current rate is .39. If you roll your own cigarettes, you are SOL. The price you pay will go up about 2 1/2 times what you pay now. So if you pay $20 a pound, you can expect to pay about $46-$48 a pound after Obama gets done with you.


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## mc2712 (Mar 14, 2008)

What Mike has written is completely true. I have either read or heard this same info. Here is another angle on the SCHIP crap there is a channel on my Uverse package called ABCnow and they have been talking how kids are not insured and how this bill is going to help the children. The anchor and another woman talk about how this bill helps working poor families. The woman says the average family of 3 making $32,000 a year will be covered, when this bill passes. The anchor then says this bill is needed to help the working poor. 
Ok this is what I want you guys to notice and that is these two people start off by talking about helping children, then jump to the entire family. And that is the goal Nationalized Health Care, SCHIP is just a gateway drug to getting every person in this country hooked to Nationalized Health Care. 
Also this bill will pass because the Republicans are to chicken S*#t to fight. My 2 cents!


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## Hot Stuff x (Jan 2, 2009)

mc2712 said:


> Also this bill will pass because the Republicans are to chicken S*#t to fight. My 2 cents!


The Republicans are the minority party (and have been for a couple of years), but before they had the presidential veto working for them. Now they don't have that.

Before, the Republican President could balance the Democrat congress, but that is no longer the case. The Republicans have little power to stop anything the Democrats want to do.


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## mc2712 (Mar 14, 2008)

Hot Stuff x said:


> The Republicans are the minority party (and have been for a couple of years), but before they had the presidential veto working for them. Now they don't have that.
> 
> Before, the Republican President could balance the Democrat congress, but that is no longer the case. The Republicans have little power to stop anything the Democrats want to do.


The Republicans can stick together and vote together, and they good go out and talk to their constituents to help them fight this bill or any other bill that will take U.S. towards socialism. That is how they could fight, but they have not done that for some time, not since the 80's.


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## MsprinM (Apr 11, 2008)

As someone who has lived below the poverty line I have to say this. There is already national free health care for the poor. Its called Medicaid/Medicare and each and every one of us are already taxed for it. Schip has nothing to do with helping the poor. Our politicians never do anything in one big jump. And that goes for both republicans and democrats. They take baby steps in everything they do in order to not spook the heard. this is just another example of them manipulating the sheep who aren't paying attention. The know that smokers wont generate enough in taxes to pay for this. When it starts to crumble it will become a "crisis" so that they can then slap on new taxes for each and every working person. And as usual the heard will nod their heads and say OK since its an emergency.


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## mc2712 (Mar 14, 2008)

This is an update about the SCHIP Bill as of 1/28/2009

The Senate rejected the Republican proposal by a resounding 65-32 vote. Democratic lawmakers say the GOP's legislation didn't go far enough, covering only about 2 million uninsured children, or roughly half of the number that the Democrats' bill would cover.

Democrats are trying to more than double spending for the program, and President Barack Obama has urged Congress to quickly send him a children's health bill that he can sign into law. The House has already passed a bill comparable to the one before the Senate.

Republicans argued that their proposal was more focused on helping low-income families and did not rely on tax increases to pay for the additional health spending. The GOP's amendment also would not have allowed federal funding to cover children of newly arrived legal immigrants, as the Democratic bill allows.

*The Democratic-led effort relies on higher taxes on tobacco to pay for covering more children.*

The Republicans' amendment, instead relied primarily on lowering certain Medicaid payments to the states.

*It looks to me that it is Dems vs. Repubs. Thats too bad for us!! *


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