# Mouldy Hydra Cartridge AGAIN???



## Bear (Sep 22, 2007)

OK so I posted about this issue a few weeks ago (see here). Well, I pop open my Hydra to refill it today and see this:










Other side:










OK, so what the heck is going on here? Is my cabinet some kind of Mould Factory now?

Hmm... Doesn't look like one:










When I was filling this new Hydra cartridge I had made sure to add a little Vodka as recommended by some to keep the mould out. I am at my wits end here. Where I once was a big supporter & believer of the product, I would now think twice about recommending it to others.

Anyone have any suggestions? I'm thinking about dumping the floral foam and replacing it with a gel or beads or a combination of both...

Advice? Suggestions? Comment? All are welcome and requested.


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## Pipe&Cigar (May 8, 2008)

Im just a newbie but my thoughts would be that the foam got dirty or had some type of impurity in it and that caused the mold. I had the same issue in Floral Foam I was using in a travel Case. I have never heard the Vodka solution... what about EverClear to start out (Kills everything) then distilled water?


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## CigarmanTim (Apr 5, 2008)

I have a hydra and a Cigar Oasis +....The CO+ got mold on the foam right after I over filled it. I had about 1/8th on an inch of h2O above the foam. Had to buy a new cartridge. Cigars are fine. Now I always microwave my distilled water for 4 minutes just to be on the safe side. I haqve had no problems since. I don't think this is unusual because I see both the hydra and the cigar oasis sell replacement resevoirs.


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## Bear (Sep 22, 2007)

OK so here's a wacky question... does anyone know if this mould is harmful (to my health or the the cigars)?


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## [OT] Loki (May 24, 2006)

holy crap man that sucks. My advise get some beads and throw out the container the foam was in. As to the cigars....I don't think it'll hurt them but it's not good for them


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## hardcz (Aug 1, 2007)

harmful or not, I kill mold....


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## Bear (Sep 22, 2007)

[OT] Loki said:


> holy crap man that sucks. My advise get some beads and throw out the container the foam was in. As to the cigars....I don't think it'll hurt them but it's not good for them


Due to the size of the cabinet (9 cu ft), beads alone wouldn't be a practical way to maintain the humidity. Are you implying I should fill the container with beads and go with beads alone in the Hydra?

With that said, there are already close to 2 pounds of beads in there already...

I've thought of upgrading to an Avallo Accumonitor system, but if that's going to also get all bunged up with mould I don't think I want to spend the $250 - $300... :hn


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## MikeyC (Nov 27, 2007)

Hmmm . . . I'm concerned about the safety of your cigars with all that mold in your Hydra. I suggest you pack them all up and ship them to me for safe keeping. My Hydra has not become moldy. So, your smokes will be 100% safe in my hands.:ss


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## mjr955201 (Aug 1, 2007)

get one of these bad boys: all metal, no mold

http://www.bcspecialties.com/cigarasp/moist.asp


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## Bear (Sep 22, 2007)

Not the best looking unit though is it? :hn
Might not have a choice though... 



mjr955201 said:


> get one of these bad boys: all metal, no mold
> 
> http://www.bcspecialties.com/cigarasp/moist.asp


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## 68TriShield (May 15, 2006)

1)did you use distilled water?
2)don't worry about the mold,health wise...
3)Bob at Aristocrat will set a system for you.Several guys here had a system made for them...


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## Bear (Sep 22, 2007)

68TriShield said:


> 1)did you use distilled water?
> 2)don't worry about the mold,health wise...
> 3)Bob at Aristocrat will set a system for you.Several guys here had a system made for them...


1) Only use Distilled Water.
2) Thanks. Most cigars are boxed anyways.
3) ??? I don't follow. Is this a custom or not for regular retail type system?


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## SilverFox (Feb 19, 2008)

Bear said:


> OK so here's a wacky question... does anyone know if this mould is harmful (to my health or the the cigars)?


Yes to both answers

Mold spores are problematic for respiratory tract and can worsen symptoms of things like colds, asthma and allergies. The spores are definitely getting out with your water vapor through the humidification process and airborne spores means potential for other growth. It is an issue that I wouldn't leave unresolved for long Marc. Short term you won't see it but long term could be crappy.


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## SouthsideCigar (Jan 11, 2008)

What is the RH of your room and are the beads kept 60% wet as well. It could be that they hydra doesn't ahve to come on that often so the water is just sitting there instead of being used.
How often do you have to refill the hydra?

Dave


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## n2advnture (Aug 9, 2004)

In a nutshell, here is a good resource about mold, why, where and how it can form and grow.

http://www.epi.state.nc.us/epi/oii/mold/grow.html

Over humidification and temperature are probably the culprits. Mold feeds on organic matter, so should you create an environment for mold to thrive, they will come.

I have seen a similar thread about the cigar oasis with this same problem on another thread here even though cigar oasis boasts their extra anti-bacteria additives.

Someone posted that they added a few drops of vodka to their water cartridge to prevent any mold from growing.

What temp is your humidor at most of the time?


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## Bear (Sep 22, 2007)

n2advnture said:


> In a nutshell, here is a good resource about mold, why, where and how it can form and grow.
> 
> http://www.epi.state.nc.us/epi/oii/mold/grow.html
> 
> ...


Temp is locked in at 20 Celcius.


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## GWN (Jun 2, 2007)

Hey Marc, is that the original cartridge or a replacement? If it's the original, maybe you just got a bum one.


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## Bear (Sep 22, 2007)

GWN said:


> Hey Marc, is that the original cartridge or a replacement? If it's the original, maybe you just got a bum one.


Negative, this is a picture of the replacement one. The link in the OP goes to the first time I had a problem with the first one. (replaced the whole unit, not just the cartridge)


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## DAL (Aug 2, 2006)

Why not remove the foam and fill the reservoir with distilled water? My son has the same kind of humidifier and found that it works better without the foam.


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## Bear (Sep 22, 2007)

DAL said:


> Why not remove the foam and fill the reservoir with distilled water? My son has the same kind of humidifier and found that it works better without the foam.


My only concern with that would be the risk of water sloshing around should the cabinet get bumped and getting the electronics wet...


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## Moosie (Apr 25, 2005)

DAL said:


> Why not remove the foam and fill the reservoir with distilled water? My son has the same kind of humidifier and found that it works better without the foam.


Interesting. I guess filling to the top isn't necessary, maybe half way.


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## DAL (Aug 2, 2006)

Bear said:


> My only concern with that would be the risk of water sloshing around should the cabinet get bumped and getting the electronics wet...


My son converted a nightstand into a humidor. He said the low water alarm went off at night after filling the tank for the first time. After a fews of days of having to top off the tank every morning he figured the upper part of the foam was probably drying out causing the alarm to go off. Sure enough, after he removed the foam he found that the upper 1/8" of it was dry, but the rest of it was full of water. He reasoned that because the fan blows across the top of the foam the upper part gets dry before water has time to work its way from the bottom to the top of the foam. The low water sensor sees dry air so it sets off the alarm. After removing the foam the alarm stopped going off. The tank only needs to be refilled every seven days now. He's careful closing the drawer so that water doesn't slosh out of the tank. He used weather stripping around the doors, added a piece of plywood to separate the lower cabinet from the upper drawer then caulked all of the seams. So far, the humidity is holding steady throughout the week.


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## 68TriShield (May 15, 2006)

Bear said:


> 1) Only use Distilled Water.
> 2) Thanks. Most cigars are boxed anyways.
> 3) ??? I don't follow. Is this a custom or not for regular retail type system?


He will make it to match your cabinet.


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## Bear (Sep 22, 2007)

68TriShield said:


> He will make it to match your cabinet.


Thanks :tu


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## cf2112 (Feb 27, 2005)

Buy some Super Absorbant Polymer and replace the foam with them. They hold a lot of water and you will have no water sloshing around.

I've used this set-up for years with excellent results, search here or on other sigars forums (CF) for more info.

http://www.water-keep.com/catalog/

http://www.watersorb.com/


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## Tour De Cigar (Feb 26, 2007)

Bear said:


> Due to the size of the cabinet (9 cu ft), beads alone wouldn't be a practical way to maintain the humidity. Are you implying I should fill the container with beads and go with beads alone in the Hydra?
> 
> With that said, there are already close to 2 pounds of beads in there already...
> 
> I've thought of upgrading to an Avallo Accumonitor system, but if that's going to also get all bunged up with mould I don't think I want to spend the $250 - $300... :hn


The avallo acc. can develope mold problems too.. :hn unfortunate ..



SouthsideCigar said:


> What is the RH of your room and are the beads kept 60% wet as well. It could be that they hydra doesn't ahve to come on that often so the water is just sitting there instead of being used.
> How often do you have to refill the hydra?
> 
> Dave


Good question...:ss


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## DonnieW (Jul 2, 2008)

I've already shared this with Bear, however for the benefit of others, here's my recommendation. Thoroughly clean the reservoir with a bleach/water solution - I recommend 1 part bleach to 20 parts water. Let the res sit in the water for awhile and then rinse VERY thoroughly. Replace the old moldy foam with brand-new "*WET*" floral foam (as pictured below). This stuff is about $1.50 per block from the dollar store, a single block is good for 2 or 3 Oasis or Hydra reservoirs. Next, use an 80/20 Propylene Glycol solution and saturate the foam completely, let any excess pour out. Some folks moan about never using PG with foam as they claim it clogs the foam up... whatever. The PG will keep the mold from ever starting. You need not spend silly amounts of money on pre-mixed PG from the cigar shop. The stuff is $3.00 a bottle in pure form from any pharmacy. That's enough to make about 10 bottles of the stuff you pay 5-10 bucks a bottle for at the cigar shop. You only need to use the PG mix every other fill. So for a cost of less than $2.00 you can be mold free. PG is the key here, just don't waste your money on the ready made stuff. :tu


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## chippewastud79 (Sep 18, 2007)

DonnieW said:


> PG is the key here, just don't waste your money on the ready made stuff. :tu


 In my opinion, PG is not the key, using distilled water and a properly humidifying environment will not lead to any mold. I think propoleyne glycol is a over emphasized point that people use as a cure-all for mold problems. PG, just like Boveda packs are completely un-needed if you use the proper steps and environment in setting up a humidor. Why spend any money on something extra to help with humidifying and preventing mold, that you can get the same performance for a $.97 gallon of distilled water and with half the headache? Standing water, over saturated foam and extra humidity will lead to mold. PG is not a cure all, although some people would lead you to believe this is true. :2:tu


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## DonnieW (Jul 2, 2008)

chippewastud79 said:


> In my opinion, PG is not the key, using distilled water and a properly humidifying environment will not lead to any mold. I think propoleyne glycol is a over emphasized point that people use as a cure-all for mold problems. PG, just like Boveda packs are completely un-needed if you use the proper steps and environment in setting up a humidor. Why spend any money on something extra to help with humidifying and preventing mold, that you can get the same performance for a $.97 gallon of distilled water and with half the headache? Standing water, over saturated foam and extra humidity will lead to mold. PG is not a cure all, although some people would lead you to believe this is true. :2:tu


You're missing the point. It's not a cure... It's prevention my friend. And of course you need to use distilled water... that's the "80" in the 80/20 mix. For three dollars, are you telling me its not worth the prevention? C'mon, give me a break. [EDIT] I say that in the sincerest form.


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## chippewastud79 (Sep 18, 2007)

DonnieW said:


> You're missing the point. It's not a cure... It's prevention my friend. And of course you need to use distilled water... that's the "80" in the 80/20 mix. For three dollars, are you telling me its not worth the prevention? C'mon, give me a break. [EDIT] I say that in the sincerest form.


I am saying that you DO NOT NEED it to prevent mold. Pure bleach or Vodka solutions would also prevent mold. Problems with the PG also include clogging humidifiers and ruining sensors on active humidification devices. :hn

You just have to be aware of your humidor/humidifier and you should never have a problem. Personally I use beads, which are about the easiest solution to any humidification problem. :tu


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## DonnieW (Jul 2, 2008)

Vodka appears to be busted as the OP was indeed using it. Though he could have been drinking it and 'thought' he had used some. 

BTW PG does nothing to electronics despite some widely spread myth. It is completely inert and in fact forms the basis of stabilizing gels and is widely used with electronics. Sheesh, its primary use is to cut liquid medical drugs!


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## chippewastud79 (Sep 18, 2007)

I am not here to argue with you. As I noted from your extensive humidity chart thread, you are clearly much more intelligent than most here. I was simply pointing out that PG solution is a ploy, it is over emphasized despite the fact that it is completely unneccessary if you are doing things properly. Thanks for the education on something I don't use, find to be pointless and have no need for :tu


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## DonnieW (Jul 2, 2008)

chippewastud79 said:


> ...PG solution is a ploy, it is over emphasized despite the fact that it is completely unneccessary if you are doing things properly.


Absolutely agree.

I hope I didn't convey that it is only for those who don't know what they're doing. I know I used it in the beginning because I 'thought' it was needed - as you eluded to, many like to proclaim its useage like its liquid gold. Like you, I use beads in my smaller boxes, but use an active system in the cab (albeit with a hint-o-propylene glycol). :tu


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## Old Sailor (Jul 27, 2006)

I've use an oasis for 2 yrs, just distilled water....no mold. It's gotta be something Bear, you'll figure it out.


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## shilala (Feb 1, 2008)

If mold is already present, the Hydra is going to filter spores from the air beautifully.
If you live in the woods, your house is chronically moist, the basement is wet, etc., mold spores will be present in more than enough quantity to defile your cartridge.
I don't have the answer to the above questions, but if you haven't notice active mold in your humi, the spores have to come from somewhere, and that somewhere has to be outside the humi.
I'm sensitive to mold, so I run an ionizer and air cleaner. I run two humidifiers in the winter (a bottle of bacteriostat sits on each one and is used regularly) and a couple air conditioners in the summer. All those things clear the air of mold spores.
As a result, I don't have a problem.
So long as the level of spores exists, your Hydra will mold.
PG solution is a bacteriostat. It's cheap, edible, flavorless and odorless. It's ideal for the humidor because of those qualities, and is a BRILLIANT and inexpensive tool for preventing mold in humidifiers.
The cool thing about it is that it doesn't easily evaporate and go airborne as easily as most bacteriostats. It's also oily by nature and captures all sorts of airborne crud. Rinse the crud away and you're actively cleaning the air inside your humidor, which is also good.
Now that you know what's going on, you can attack the problem at whatever level you feel you can control. A HEPA filter in the room with the humi would make all the difference in the world, but the humi is already laden with spores. So you'll need to clean it somehow. Extra fans in the humi and a little glycol in the Hydra would do that, but you'd need to tend to the cartridge daily.
You may not want to tend to the high spore count at all, and it's really not necessary if it's not causing a health problem. If you tend to have "allergies" or anyone else in the house does, the Hydra is proof positive of the high spore count, and it probably has a lot to do with those "allergies" existing if they do.
Point being, you can go crazy and do a lot of things to tend to the spore count, or just use PG in the Hydra.
Hope this helps!!!


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## Bear (Sep 22, 2007)

DonnieW said:


> You're missing the point. It's not a cure... It's prevention my friend. And of course you need to use distilled water... that's the "80" in the 80/20 mix.


I like it. Sound & sage advice and all for about 3 bucks... doesn't seem like I can go wrong with this bit of shared knowledge.



shilala said:


> If mold is already present, the Hydra is going to filter spores from the air beautifully.
> If you live in the woods, your house is chronically moist, the basement is wet, etc., mold spores will be present in more than enough quantity to defile your cartridge.


Live in the city, humi in the livingroom where the RH is in the low 30s... No mould on the 'gars (touch wood) and have been using this setup for several months now.



shilala said:


> PG solution is a bacteriostat. It's cheap, edible, flavorless and odorless. It's ideal for the humidor because of those qualities, and is a BRILLIANT and inexpensive tool for preventing mold in humidifiers.
> The cool thing about it is that it doesn't easily evaporate and go airborne as easily as most bacteriostats. It's also oily by nature and captures all sorts of airborne crud. Rinse the crud away and you're actively cleaning the air inside your humidor, which is also good.


To hear you echo the thoughts of DonnieW tells me this new guy (DonnieW) might not be such a "new guy"! :tu



shilala said:


> You may not want to tend to the high spore count at all, and it's really not necessary if it's not causing a health problem. If you tend to have "allergies" or anyone else in the house does, the Hydra is proof positive of the high spore count, and it probably has a lot to do with those "allergies" existing if they do.


The wife has asthma triggered by allergies and she hasn't noticed anything in the 4 years I've been in the house so what ever caused this must be from within the cabinet. It's about a 100 year old piece of furniture so I guess just about anything from mould spores to the black plague might be in there (I keed, I keed!)



shilala said:


> Point being, you can go crazy and do a lot of things to tend to the spore count, *or just use PG in the Hydra*.
> Hope this helps!!!


Ding ding ding! We have a winner.

I'm going to go the cheaper simpler route for now. If however I see anything that resembles mould on anthing other than the foam I'm pulling everything out of the cabinet and going back to the drawing board.

Once again I tip my hat to the wisdom of the Jungle and thank you all for your advice.


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## Old Sailor (Jul 27, 2006)

Hope ya get it straightened out :tu:tu


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## Ozz1113 (Feb 13, 2008)

I just bought one of these things...lol

Do they work on their side or upside down?


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## chippewastud79 (Sep 18, 2007)

Ozz1113 said:


> I just bought one of these things...lol
> 
> Do they work on their side or upside down?


In theory, it should. I would not recomend using it any way but upright though. :tu


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## BillyCigars (Nov 17, 2007)

DonnieW said:


> I've already shared this with Bear, however for the benefit of others, here's my recommendation. Thoroughly clean the reservoir with a bleach/water solution - I recommend 1 part bleach to 20 parts water. Let the res sit in the water for awhile and then rinse VERY thoroughly. Replace the old moldy foam with brand-new "*WET*" floral foam (as pictured below). This stuff is about $1.50 per block from the dollar store, a single block is good for 2 or 3 Oasis or Hydra reservoirs. Next, use an 80/20 Propylene Glycol solution and saturate the foam completely, let any excess pour out. Some folks moan about never using PG with foam as they claim it clogs the foam up... whatever. The PG will keep the mold from ever starting. You need not spend silly amounts of money on pre-mixed PG from the cigar shop. The stuff is $3.00 a bottle in pure form from any pharmacy. That's enough to make about 10 bottles of the stuff you pay 5-10 bucks a bottle for at the cigar shop. You only need to use the PG mix every other fill. So for a cost of less than $2.00 you can be mold free. PG is the key here, just don't waste your money on the ready made stuff. :tu





shilala said:


> "...or just use PG in the Hydra."


Can't believe I didn't see this post until now - I too can vouch for the PG solution fix for the mold problem. I had this problem about a month back. I snapped open my cartridge, washed it/cleaned it out, replaced the foam, & added the PG.

Bear, this is definately a workable solution to the problem - I haven't had any problems since. :tu:tu


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## kgraybill (Apr 18, 2008)

I agree with Shilala, the spores have to come from somewhere. Do you have a humidifier in you heating and air system? They can breed mold an other bad stuff like legionnairs disease. Check that if you have one, it could be putting the spores in the air and its heading for the next best place to prosper. 
Also for people with respitory issues, check this out. http://www.residential.carrier.com/products/airquality/aircleaners/purifier.shtml


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## shilala (Feb 1, 2008)

kgraybill said:


> I agree with Shilala, the spores have to come from somewhere. Do you have a humidifier in you heating and air system? They can breed mold an other bad stuff like legionnairs disease. Check that if you have one, it could be putting the spores in the air and its heading for the next best place to prosper.
> Also for people with respitory issues, check this out. http://www.residential.carrier.com/products/airquality/aircleaners/purifier.shtml


Bear said "It's about a 100 year old piece of furniture"
That makes it real easy to tell where the mold spores come from. :tu His wife, who is sensitive, is the best indicator that there's no other problem than what exists inside the humi.

Someone else mentioned a bleach solution wipedown. That's the answer.
All I can add to that is to do it with scientific precision. 
I'd scrub that nasty bastard till it begged for mercy. :r
Good Luck with you project, Bear!!!
I'm glad you got to the bottom of it.


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## sjnovakovich (Apr 29, 2008)

Bear said:


> OK so I posted about this issue a few weeks ago (see here). Well, I pop open my Hydra to refill it today and see this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The alcohol in vodka converts to sugar over time. Nothing feeds mold like sugar.


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## myxmlcigar (Nov 12, 2006)

Curious to see how some of the solutions work out. I've had the same exact problem with both the Cigar Oasis and Hydra. 

Did the same thing .. added a cap of everclear to the foam. Still no difference. 

I'll try the PG Mix solution... and will post a follow up .

Anybody know if mold spores can be present in a gallon of distilled water? 

Does nuking the water kill any spores if they were present? 

Appreciate the thread!


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## jadorm (Jun 3, 2008)

directly from the factory there should be no mold in distilled water. once its open tho there is nothing in the water to kill mold/algie/bacteria so probably.


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## SeanGAR (Jul 9, 2004)

sjnovakovich said:


> The alcohol in vodka converts to sugar over time.


No, thats not going to happen.

Anybody with this problem try adding a couple of pre-1982 pennies alongside the foam? Copper is supposed to stop mold growth .. would be a safer option than using sodium azide.


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## lukesparksoff (Apr 21, 2010)

For years the rule of thumb has been a bleach solution for mold,scientists have found out that mold loves ,and feed on the residue left behind from a bleach wash,so if you use bleach make sure you totally wash away the bleach also.I have seen guys on construction sites spray walls down with bleach to kill mold what a dumb move.


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## lakeeden1 (Feb 28, 2010)

Here you go...

Model: CHARVBT
Manufactured by: Vigilant
*Description:* Reservoir bacteriostat to add to the water in the humidification systems to keep them clear of bacteria
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myxmlcigar said:


> Curious to see how some of the solutions work out. I've had the same exact problem with both the Cigar Oasis and Hydra.
> 
> Did the same thing .. added a cap of everclear to the foam. Still no difference.
> 
> ...


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