# What spices privide this heat in a BBQ sauce?



## beercritic (Feb 13, 2011)

Can you identify the spice(s) that would cause this property:
There was a wonderful BBQ joint in Dayton, their best loved sauce started out very yummy, with very little sweetness; As you ate, the "burn" level slowly increased to the point of tears. Best sauce I've ever had & I can't figure how to get that "heat" property. I know it did not have cayenne, as I'm super-sensitive to that flavor (especially if any tomato product is present).

usrower321 suggested white pepper and catsup with brown sugar. I have to ponder the catsup angle, as my attempts to use it as a base have failed; It has the wrong type of sweetness. I will likely try the combo, tho.


Thanks all!

joe


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## Cigary (Oct 19, 2007)

I love BBQ sauce since my days in KC....I believe IMO that to get that "heat" you need to combine cumin w/ ground red pepper and chili powder with "some" cider vinegar. The more you add red pepper to the mix the hotter it gets...now I want some ribs.


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## Rock31 (Sep 30, 2010)

I want BBQ now as well, I really need to stay out of this section!


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## beercritic (Feb 13, 2011)

Cigary said:


> I love BBQ sauce since my days in KC....I believe IMO that to get that "heat" you need to combine cumin w/ ground red pepper and chili powder with "some" cider vinegar. The more you add red pepper to the mix the hotter it gets...now I want some ribs.


It did not contain cayenne, as chili powder, ground red pepper, or anything else. As I stated, I'm really sensitive to cayenne, and there was none, nor do I like it in a BBQ sauce. Love it in chili, tho. It works in a few things I enjoy. Crushed reds on a pizza, for sure. In a sauce, nope.

joe


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## 68 Lotus (Jan 13, 2011)

Might be Tai Chilies...


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## Cigary (Oct 19, 2007)

What are the "flavors" of this sauce...there are so many variables of things to get "heat" in a BBQ sauce. The ones I listed are pretty commonplace in the BBQ sauce world...my favorite is Gates BBQ Sauce from KC...the hot one. When I go to New Orleans I always visit the places that have a wall devoted to Tobasco and hot sauces....one could spend all day there. Can you Google the place in Dayton...get an address/phone number and call it? They should give you what that mystery spice is without telling you the recipe.


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## sdlaird (Mar 15, 2011)

One thing that is key is the vinegar in the sauce. Really brings out the heat.

Really depends on how 'hot' it was. They could have pureed any sort of peppers into the sauce such as habanero or serrano chiles? If you are sure it is not cayenne or powdered red peppers these are likely options. I am sure you would pick up if it were jalapeno and maybe even the serranos, but the habaneros are so hot, they obliterat any distinguishing flavor from the pepper itself.

Also, powdered white pepper can get you pretty good and it is deceiving taste wise.

Good luck.. This remids me to check in with my buddy in Memphis who make his own "Crazy Ray's Dry Rub" Damn, will put that on anything that goes on the grill. Comes nicely packaged in a gallon sized Zip Loc bag inside a brown paper bag with "Crazy Ray" written with a Sharpie on the outside. 

Slick marketing I say! 

Let us know when you figure it out!


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## mturnmm (May 18, 2011)

That type of burn maybe seranos, my wife makes the best salsa I have ever had. Those are what she uses, I always get that effect when I eat her salsa. Many people who are on the "List" agree with me.


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## Cigary (Oct 19, 2007)

mturnmm said:


> That type of burn maybe seranos, my wife makes the best salsa I have ever had. Those are what she uses, I always get that effect when I eat her salsa. Many people who are on the "List" agree with me.


Lol,,,we'll have to compare your wifes and mine as we love SALSA and she makes salsa that even Mexicans can't believe...she's 100% ****** but she cooks like a life long mexican. She uses a combination of seranos along with the California Chiles and mannnnnn.....to die for. Being from San Diego where mexican food is as real as it gets we don't eat no hamburger tacos or burritos...that's just fake mexican food.

Maybe we can trade recipes as we're always looking for great food..esp.. mexican food.


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## beercritic (Feb 13, 2011)

Cigary said:


> What are the "flavors" of this sauce...there are so many variables of things to get "heat" in a BBQ sauce. The ones I listed are pretty commonplace in the BBQ sauce world...my favorite is Gates BBQ Sauce from KC...the hot one. When I go to New Orleans I always visit the places that have a wall devoted to Tobasco and hot sauces....one could spend all day there. Can you Google the place in Dayton...get an address/phone number and call it? They should give you what that mystery spice is without telling you the recipe.


I pestered the owner/creator begging for some hint for over a decade. Shield's BBQ, if you get to the area. Dangerous area to be white in. Go in a group in the daytime. At night, best have some black folks with you. Working 2nd shift, just a couple miles away, someone would ask, "Who wants Shield's?" "I'm in & I'm buying the beer." There were always 2 or more large black gentlemen who would gladly accompany.

Fond memories. The food was amazing. Good times.

joe


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## beercritic (Feb 13, 2011)

mturnmm said:


> That type of burn maybe seranos, my wife makes the best salsa I have ever had. Those are what she uses, I always get that effect when I eat her salsa. Many people who are on the "List" agree with me.


Seraros have less burn than cayenne, starting out? Whole pepper? Dried, flaked, powdered? I have hella time trying to find salsa I like; don't care for chunky style salsa.

Thanks,

joe


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## beercritic (Feb 13, 2011)

OK, the sauce had a darker appearance than most, closer to molasses than catsup. It had a graininess visually but not in mouth-feel. About what you'd expect grated horseradish to look like. Still nothing I attribute to peppers flavor wise. And probably not horseradish, as it lacked that flavor as well.

Most likely nothing uncommon or costly, as Mr. shields used his sauce to lift himself out of abject poverty. And generations of folks claim the sauce never changed over time. At least over 30 or 40 years. High Fructose Corn Syrup (death) probably wasn't in many, if any products back then (guessing). So the ingredients were most likely be cheap items a poor black man could source in and around a ghetto.

Hope that is of some help, we might be over-thinking the complexity. Meanwhile, I'll whip up some white pepper & catsup dip. I'd noticed the heat building when I tried it in mashed potatoes. 


Still puzzling over the sauce...

joe


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## Arnie (Jan 5, 2009)

Coarse ground mustard seed can give you that effect and would be a common spice back in the day. Get some mustard seed and grind them in your cuisinart until they are like bread crumbs or a little finer. Mix them with a little cold beer and a little molasses and/or ketchup, a good portion of black or white pepper, and a touch of vinegar. Use that as a base point and start to experiment with different ingredients and combinations. Change ONE thing at a time so you will know what changed. 

I don't know if it's a sweet sauce, tomato based, or what. If you could give me some hints as to what the base is it's easier to point you in the right direction.


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## sdlaird (Mar 15, 2011)

beercritic said:


> Seraros have less burn than cayenne, starting out? Whole pepper? Dried, flaked, powdered? I have hella time trying to find salsa I like; don't care for chunky style salsa.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> joe


FYI re salsa, I like to char grill my peppers, onions and tomatoes and them blend them in the processor for a bit. Not to a puree, but more fine than pico de gallo. Funny thing, I love my guacamole chunky. Go figure.

I like throwing serranos and anaheims in my salsa. and, of course, cilantro and fresh lime are the key to it all.


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## Boudreaux (Jun 27, 2007)

beercritic said:


> I pestered the owner/creator begging for some hint for over a decade. Shield's BBQ, if you get to the area. Dangerous area to be white in. Go in a group in the daytime. At night, best have some black folks with you. Working 2nd shift, just a couple miles away, someone would ask, "Who wants Shield's?" "I'm in & I'm buying the beer." There were always 2 or more large black gentlemen who would gladly accompany.
> 
> Fond memories. The food was amazing. Good times.
> 
> joe


Now that sounds like my type of place to eat for lunch...


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## beercritic (Feb 13, 2011)

Boudreaux said:


> Now that sounds like my type of place to eat for lunch...


Hence my panic in recreating that particular heat.

still scratching head.....

joe


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## beercritic (Feb 13, 2011)

Wow! I received a bomb from Usrower31. 

He sent:
A rub from his restaurant (very nice). I keep tasting it, repeatedly, by licking it from my hand.
And 3 cigars:
Virture Man O War
Gurkha Regant
And a NUB

Been wanting to try these; They are resting in the bomb humidor. 



Still playing around with the heat recipe.

Tried one off-the-shelf sauce. Could only take four bites, very cloying sweetness. Course, the primary ingredient was the dreaded high-fructose-corn-syrup. Must have been a free bottle promotion. Tossed ot out.

2ns try was using a Kroger house-brand. (Ingredients: Tomato puree. 2 kinds of sugar, molasses). Way better, used 1/8 tsp white pepper in 4 oz sauce. Very nice effect;Still not the heat profile I'm seeking. White pepper shall replace the black in my future sauces. Wondering if it needs to be cooked into the sauce? In the meantime, I'll try with the other folks suggestions.

Thanks again for the wonderful bomb. I will keep y'all posted as I try the various combination's. 

joe


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