# Legality of selling CC boxes on EBAY



## Aaron (Nov 28, 2005)

Are empty boxes considered contraband since they were manufactured in Cuba? 

In theory, would it be an issue to drive with empty CC boxes from Canada to the US? To sell an CC box on EBAY?


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## Jonesee (Dec 30, 2005)

LOL. Let's see, you hit how many tagged phrases and words in your post?? contraband, cuba, canada, crossing a border to US...

Aaron as we speak the Dept Of Homeland Security has a computer flagging your ISP. Everything you have done on the net since 1999 is being printed and rushed to an intelligence analyst. 

It's OK though, they say the FBI agents are really polite. I wouldn't lie to them though, that is what Scooter Libby did and he was thrown in jail. As for the CC box, maybe it will make kindling in the fireplace before they get there. 

ROFLMAO


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## SixPackSunday (Dec 25, 2008)

hahahaha. sorry but i gotta agree with the guy above me. 

look on ebay and see if they are already being sold. 

that said 'CC' boxes alone are not worth driving stateside to sell.


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## Aaron (Nov 28, 2005)

Key phrase to pay attention to: EMPTY BOXES.

Just that. No euphemism.

For instance, an American spent a vacation in Canada and brought an empty box (purchased by his Canadian host) home as a memento to be used as a pencil box or whatever other utilitarian purpose.

Definition of forum: _This section of our forums is dedicated to the Habanos cigar. We discuss legality issues, user experiences, and everything related to these fine, premium cigars. Uncover the truths - and myths, of the greatest cigars on the planet._

The sticky on this forum on how to lose access is *here*. I fail to see how my question discusses the purchase or transport of actual cigars.

I haven't seen CC boxes on EBAY for sale other than some pre-Castros. That doesn't prove they wouldn't allow it.


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## piperman (Sep 8, 2005)

Customs or who ever will not waste there time on a empty box, If you want to sell it go ahead.


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## Jonesee (Dec 30, 2005)

Aaron said:


> Key phrase to pay attention to: EMPTY BOXES.
> 
> Just that. No euphemism.
> 
> ...


Relax, it was a joke... Are we a bit up tight tonight?? Go have a drink, smoke a CC and relax...

Hey if an empty cigar box was all I had to worry about, I would be sleeping whole nights and live a lot longer.

The FBI or Homeland Security or anyone else is not going to care two shakes about an empty box. You and I are too small of fish for them to worry their lame a... hey, let me hit you back later, someone is out front with a bull horn calling me out. gotta go for a minute,, why do you think they want me to walk backwards out of the door???


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## Aaron (Nov 28, 2005)

The question isn't whether or not customs would choose to enforce a law. Law enforcement can choose to make life difficult -- even if one is adhering 110% to the letter and spirit of the law.

The original question remains... are emptied boxes made from wood and cedar that did not originate and may not even have been assembled in Cuba (though they were branded and labeled per the origin of the cigars inside) -- but that once held CCs for sale -- technically embargoed?

I do not want to expect a *Spanish Cedar Inquisition*.


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## hotreds (Dec 4, 2007)

To answer your question- no you cannot sell an empty Cuban cigar box on E-bay. I tried to do this with an old 1970s box, and it was removed because it was "contraband."


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## Jonesee (Dec 30, 2005)

Agent Friendly just explained that to me. I told him I was asking for a friend, yeah, that's it, a dear friend, named AAron, yeah AAron from Los Angeles...

He seemed happy to have that info and left.

So Aaron, when the guys in the dark suits show up just tell them CC meant Canadian Club as in whisky... yeah, that's the ticket, CC whisky...


And Aaron, thanks for allowing me to entertain myself at your expense. Now back to your regularly scheduled broadcast.


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## Aaron (Nov 28, 2005)

Because it WAS contraband or because EBAY *believed* it to be contraband? EBAY founder Meg Whitman is a Republican and may be especially strict in opposition to Castro.

In theory, according to EBAY, would a cigar band originating on a contraband CC also be contraband?

A shirt tag from a Cuban-manufactured shirt?

If someone purchased a package of gum in Havana and brought the wrapper to Canada, would that be contraband if it was then brought to the USA?

And for what it's worth... I'm not the person who's interested in selling.

Some may see my inquiry as splitting hairs. I'm trying to get a definitive answer citing an actual statute as to what constitutes the minimum level of Cuban content prohibited by law.


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## havanitascigars-cl (Apr 29, 2007)

In the strict parlance of what the law says: It is illegal for an American to own or possess any object of Cuban origin. The expansion of this law under the Trading with the Enemy Act of 2004 includes American citizens who are anywhere on the planet. This means it is illegal for an American in Canada to buy, or have in his possession, a Cuban cigar. Because the law says anything of Cuban origin, by extension, this means clothing, art, books, music, and, yes, boxes, that are Cuban made. In short: Americans cannot have in their possession, or purchase, any Cuban artifact or object anywhere on the planet... no matter what the object is.

Therefore, to be in compliance with the law, eBay would consider empty boxes contraband.


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## Blindjimme (Feb 13, 2009)

Wow, I thought the minimum level was a Robusto, and anything larger
was illegal.:faint:Kidding.

JB


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## zitro_joe (Oct 6, 2008)

Aaron said:


> Because it WAS contraband or because EBAY *believed* it to be contraband? EBAY founder Meg Whitman is a Republican and may be especially strict in opposition to Castro.
> 
> In theory, according to EBAY, would a cigar band originating on a contraband CC also be contraband?
> 
> ...


Ha, wasn't it a Democrat that imposed the embargo? You may be right ... the Republican state of Ebay may be full on board with the Democrats anti-Castro campaign. Does that make Ebay a bi-partisan entity...:faint:

All joking aside... You are splitting hair about this. I am not an employee of ebay, I am pretty sure 99.9% of the members here are not employees of Ebay. But, you want a definitive answer about Ebay without consulting Ebay. Soooo, the answer is ; I can't give you one.

Hotreds gave you as close to a definitive answer as you can get with out contacting Ebay itself. You replied "Republican" "Why?" "Cuban shirt tags" Bottom line is Ebay can choose to do what they want, no matter what their reasoning. Even if it is derived from poorly interpreting laws/regulations. The subject of you question may, or may not, float on a gray line. If I worked for them and had 'say-so' authority, I wouldn't allow it. For them it may be worth more not to allow you to sell it, than to collect the 30 cents from your sale.

I have a friend that is a US Customs Agent. When I see him, I will ask his interpretation of the law. Most likely , he will smile and say "STFU".

zitro


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## Ivory Tower (Nov 18, 2005)

Last time I read the Department of the Treasury, Office of Foreign Assets Control guidelines (which was just now), it's cigars and "most other products of Cuban origin" whether acquired here or in third countries. So, sounds like the boxes are banned.


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## Jonesee (Dec 30, 2005)

Guys, I'm sure that Aaron appreciates all your research and clear concise answers. But, That isn't the answer Aaron ( I mean his hmmphh, uh, "friend") is looking for. Please quit trying to confuse him with the facts. Clearly the republicans, democrats, ebay, and the owner of ebay have conspired against him (I mean ummm his "friend") to not allow their sale. Come on a good conspiracy theory is always more fun. 

I never checked the badges of those guys with the bullhorn that frisked me out in the yard. Do you think they could have been from EBay??? Oh man, now I feel so violated...


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## Cypress (Jun 27, 2007)

Read this United States embargo against Cuba - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## Snake Hips (May 30, 2008)

havanitascigars-cl said:


> In the strict parlance of what the law says: It is illegal for an American to own or possess any object of Cuban origin. The expansion of this law under the Trading with the Enemy Act of 2004 includes American citizens who are anywhere on the planet. This means it is illegal for an American in Canada to buy, or have in his possession, a Cuban cigar. Because the law says anything of Cuban origin, by extension, this means clothing, art, books, music, and, yes, boxes, that are Cuban made. In short: Americans cannot have in their possession, or purchase, any Cuban artifact or object anywhere on the planet... no matter what the object is.
> 
> Therefore, to be in compliance with the law, eBay would consider empty boxes contraband.


Everybody thinks it's illegal to "possess" items of Cuban origin. It's not, read the law. And the 2004 addendum only made it illegal to bring back items from Cuba, as it was legal before ($100 worth or something). It's always been illegal to purchase Cuban goods anywhere in the world (not possess...).

I think the actual question here is, are the boxes made in Cuba? The bands and tubes aren't.

But eBay would probably take it down, even though people sell fake Cohibas all day on there.


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## havanitascigars-cl (Apr 29, 2007)

Snake Hips said:


> Everybody thinks it's illegal to "possess" items of Cuban origin. It's not, read the law. And the 2004 addendum only made it illegal to bring back items from Cuba, as it was legal before ($100 worth or something). It's always been illegal to purchase Cuban goods anywhere in the world (not possess...).


The US Treasury, under its powers in conjunction with the Trading with the Enemy Act, expanded the ban on possession or use of Cuban products through the Office of Foreign Assets Control as follows:

"Americans are barred from not only purchasing Cuban goods in foreign countries, but also from consuming them in those countries.

The penalties for violating the prohibitions include maximum criminal fines for individuals of $250,000 and imprisonment for up to 10 years. Corporations can be fined as much as a million dollars."

The key word here is "consuming". The legal interpretation of this memo from the Treasury Department includes possession of goods of Cuban origin since consumption implies you possess it. "Consumption" in the broad sense includes "use of". The Treasury Department does not distinguish between whether you purchased the product in your possession.


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## Gone Dave (Mar 30, 2008)

When you post a cigar related item on Ebay, as you finish the listings you WILL receive a notice telling you that their policy is to review ANY questionable items, relating to CC's and report ALL questionable, and ALL violations to the OFAC...:faint:..Thank you !!:focus:


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## Architeuthis (Mar 31, 2007)

I don't mean to be an ass but... It's a cigar box; either put small items in it for storage, give it to the kids, or throw it away! <G>


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## Gone Dave (Mar 30, 2008)

Architeuthis said:


> I don't mean to be an ass but... It's a cigar box; either put small items in it for storage, give it to the kids, or throw it away! <G>


Word to the "Squid"! My son loves any box I toss his way..:banana:
And I have a few friends(as we all seem too) that seem to like to "put stuff" in them..:hippie:


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## Snake Hips (May 30, 2008)

havanitascigars-cl said:


> The US Treasury, under its powers in conjunction with the Trading with the Enemy Act, expanded the ban on possession or use of Cuban products through the Office of Foreign Assets Control as follows:
> 
> "Americans are barred from not only purchasing Cuban goods in foreign countries, but also from consuming them in those countries.
> 
> ...


Aye, it's a technicality. I wouldn't use it as a main defense, but the entirety of the embargo law includes nothing barring possession. Granted, it's illegal to "purchase or recieve" them, blocking any way you would have gotten them, but not technically to possess them. If they can't prove how you got them, they can't get you for just "having" them. Unfortunately, that won't stop them from taking them away, though, and I wouldn't use that as a defense, haha, but it's the principle of it.

But I was wrong about the 2004 expansion it seems. I know it included somewhere the removal of the $100 limit on stuff you could bring back...


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## DBCcigar (Apr 24, 2008)

You can try, but I think eBay will remove the listing....


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## havanitascigars-cl (Apr 29, 2007)

Snake--- Now here is the part that most people do get wrong. It is technically not illegal to go to Cuba. It is illegal to spend money in Cuba. You also cannot have someone give you money to spend in Cuba. You have to be fully sponsored, in that your sponsor is not an American and pays all your bills directly to the various vendors. You cannot take money into the country. You are supposed to file all the necessary paperwork with the US government and disclose all the details. Technically, you are petitioning the government for approval to go, but they do not say no. 

There have been several Supreme Court cases that have upheld a person's right to travel to Cuba during times of peace. The government cannot make it illegal to travel to any country if we are not at war. However, Bush sidestepped this point of argument by declaring a "War on Terrorism" with Cuba labeled as a terrorist nation. This has not yet been heard in court as to the legality of declaring war on an activitiy as opposed to a specific nation.


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## Snake Hips (May 30, 2008)

havanitascigars-cl said:


> Snake--- Now here is the part that most people do get wrong. It is technically not illegal to go to Cuba. It is illegal to spend money in Cuba. You also cannot have someone give you money to spend in Cuba. You have to be fully sponsored, in that your sponsor is not an American and pays all your bills directly to the various vendors. You cannot take money into the country. You are supposed to file all the necessary paperwork with the US government and disclose all the details. Technically, you are petitioning the government for approval to go, but they do not say no.
> 
> There have been several Supreme Court cases that have upheld a person's right to travel to Cuba during times of peace. The government cannot make it illegal to travel to any country if we are not at war. However, Bush sidestepped this point of argument by declaring a "War on Terrorism" with Cuba labeled as a terrorist nation. This has not yet been heard in court as to the legality of declaring war on an activitiy as opposed to a specific nation.


I know all of that. I was talking about the people who got the approval to go for whatever reason (religious, humanitarian, poilitcal, etc.). Before 2004 it was legal for them to bring back $XXX.XX-worth of Cuban goods, including rum, coffee, cigars, etc. Since then, they can't.


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