# How to spot a fake Habano dealer!



## MoTheMan (May 24, 2003)

*Does anybody think this place is real?*

Got an e-mail from a good cigar friend of mine telling me about this seller of Cuban Cigars from Toronto, Fine Cigars Worlwide. Hmm! Got me thinking, does this place look legit?!

First of all, their prices are all too good. If you buy cigars from Canada (whether Cuban, Nicaraguan, Dominican, whatever) generally you'll pay more because of the Canadian Tax. These prices are way out of line!

Second, all their prices end in 0, 5, or 99! *[Well, as of 5/18/05, their pricing has changed! Now they're looking more legit. Whether they are or not . . . it's your risk.]* Is this a legitimate retailer? Has anybody ever seen a cigar merchant, whether in the US or another country where the boxes are so evenly priced? Even JR Cigar, those cost cutting mavens, don't come up that even. I'm guessing they're buying counterfeit stuff, probably around $40-$50 a box, then sticking a price on it to make it look legit yet turn a good profit.

Third, under FAQ's they say, _"All our boxes, have the *Hologram seal*, the new Habanos seal, Factory/Date stamp, New green Cuban warranty seal (contains the Cuban Shield as a watermark, that can only be seen with a blacklight). Please Do not be fooled, check for all these characteristics. It is a shame soo many have been scammed by inmoral people selling fakes." _ Uh, Hologram seal?! Someone correct me if I'm wrong. Doesn't that now apply mostly to boxes purchased in CUBA, not ones exported through legitimate channels? Yes, I've seen boxes sold in Europe with the hologram seal, but most of the newer boxes don't even have them at all.

Now I'm sticking my neck waaaay out here cause I don't even know this vendor and I haven't even contacted them . . . so I'm risking their wrath. [Heck, they're probably saying, "Oh Chit! We goofed. We've gotta revamp our operation to get it right."] If you disagree please send me your input. If I am wrong, I will gladly apologize & delete this thread . . . on the other hand, please don't take me for a fool.

*Now a few simple rules about Cigars in general.*

1) If you're looking for cigars, look for them in countries with a high standards of living, or at least with a strong Luxury market. Cigars are a luxury product (an affrordable one) and only people with discretionary income can afford to regularly indulge. Think Western Europe, US & Canada, Hong Kong & Australia, and even Beirut & Dubai (STRONG luxury markets there).

2) I wouldn't go buying buying cigars from places like Poland or Bangladesh. They just don't have the economic infrastructure to support a retailing industry like this. OK, well maybe they have decent cigar shops to cater to their very rich (maybe duty free at the airport), but I wouldn't call that a very big market and I wouldn't expect them to carry a huge inventory, let alone be selling to overseas clientele.

3) Remember the taxes!! Every country has a tax structure that it places on imported goods, and sometimes if those goods are classified as luxury, the levied tax will be higher. In England and Mexico cigars are recognized as a luxury product taxed accordingly. In Canada, they're recognized as an import TOBACCO PRODUCT, and they're taxed even higher! Luxury markets like Hong Kong and Switzerland are more tax friendly. Countries that recognize cigars as AGRICULTURAL PRODUCT are also more price friendly (like the U.S.) -- has anyone noticed that a Dominican or a Honduran cigar purchased in Canada costs almost as much as a Cuban cigar purchased there, but the same cigar is much cheaper here in the United States.

4) Price consistency. I know good cigar merchants in Argentina, but the taxes there make those cigars 40%-50% more expensive. Expect cigars in a given country to be around the same price level, i.e. all cigars in Montreal will cost around the same, all cigars in Barcelona will cost around the same but will be cheaper than Canada. On the other hand all cigars in CUBA will be EXACTLY the same price, because the price is set by the government, and the taxes on cigars are the lowest anywhere.

5) Don't forget about smoke friendly! Countries with cultures that allow, and indulge in fine smoking activity usually have more shops catering to smokers, as well as very knowledgeable and sophisticated merchants (who know their clients' needs). Spain, Germany, France, Switzerland (again), Italy, Australia, and Hong Kong; all have many readily accessible merchants from which to buy cigars.*

6) Remember that the great majority of cigar merchants are also avid aficionados and, like most of us here, are fanatic about their cigars. They
pay close attention to the boxes / the packaging, the appearance, the presentation, the smell, the feel, the draw, the taste, the smoke, etc..., of the cigar. If you've been around cigars long enough, you'll recognize reliable dealers by the way they walk & talk (their passion for the leaf), by how they present themselves and interact professionally (their knowledge), and by how quickly they'll size you up (they'll give you "the look"). Some of this maybe a little hard to understand by newbies, but if you're around cigars enough you know what's meant here.

7) Lastly, remember, if a deal is too good to be true, it usually is.

8) *An afterthought! I'd expect that the growing economy of China will create a very strong market for cigars over the next 20-30 years as you see more wealth among Chinese.
:w


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## croatan (Mar 23, 2005)

That site also offers quite a few cigars that are normally rather difficult to obtain online, including Millennium Jars and 2001 ELs (something we know to be widely counterfeited and sold recently).


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## opus (Jun 21, 2005)

Phoney as they come. Stupid is as stupid does.


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## IHT (Dec 27, 2003)

uh... you posted my best source, mo. :c

but terrific info for newer members to the "passion" on how to spot non-legit vendors while they search for someone they can have a solid relationship with.


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## mosesbotbol (Sep 21, 2005)

Good write up. I think many are pound foolish trying to save $20 on a box of Serie D, etc when they can be aquired from reputable vendors for a fair price. Even the duty free’s in Europe is competitive. Canada is way too pricey for my tastes; even a Hemingway could cost $20+ - 

No Way Jose am I paying that for a regular cigar. I think $10 is pushing it, outside of a churchill or "show-off" cigar. 

Has anyone have links to cigar retails in Dubai or Saudi? Curious to see what they offer. I use to get a lot of Cubans from Saudi 10 years ago, but they were gifts from friends that lived there.


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## MoTheMan (May 24, 2003)

IHT said:


> uh... you posted my best source, mo. :c


ROFLMAO :r


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## joed (Nov 12, 2005)

That site sure looks like one of the internet scams that everyone warns you about - the prices seem lower than what I can find from respected retailers in Switzerland or Spain. My experience with Canadian retail is that the prices should be much higher that what he has posted. I would certainly avoid this guy. :w


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## Mindflux (Dec 5, 2005)

This site is listed on another cigar forum's links list.. makes ya wonder.


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## Cartierusm (Jan 25, 2005)

Also noticed they use Stormpay to accept payments, whatever that is. Most legitimate operation will take credit cards directly.

Also there is a lot of spelling erros and a lot of cigars come in "Leather Humidors". That should be the big kicker, they're too lazy to even fake the box, so they give you a cheap leather humidor and pawn it off like it's supposed to come that way.


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## icehog3 (Feb 20, 2005)

Great post Mo...the original reason I came to CS was to learn, and some days I still do..thanks.


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## Puffy69 (Sep 8, 2005)

Great Post..Sticky this Info..I noticed that they mostly sell the most popular sizes aswell for each brand instead of the other odd sizes..For example.Under the VR's they only haved the Fams, Uni's and DA's the 3 most popular..Totally counterfeit..I bet those DA's are from 97'..Why dont they have any Jose Peidra's? too hard to fake?


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## mosesbotbol (Sep 21, 2005)

If they were legit, I'd imagine they drop ship from some place other than Canada. How about 5 of us or so split something cheap and go from there? I've spent more on less. Bolivar Belicoso's & Juan Lopez Seleccion no. 2 were pretty cheap.


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## Puffy69 (Sep 8, 2005)

I can get the real deal shipped for $180 on the JL2's..why risk on another vendor..


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## jgros001 (Jun 14, 2005)

Thanks for the post Mo. Great info as always. It is interesting where the google search takes you.... http://cgi3.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewUserPage&userid=faleroinc http://www.talkaboutdrugsnetwork.com/group/alt.smokers.cigars/messages/803543.html


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## mosesbotbol (Sep 21, 2005)

Rock Star said:


> I can get the real deal shipped for $180 on the JL2's..why risk on another vendor..


Yes, this is true & I agree, just throwing out a suggestion, if I loose $10, no big deal.


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## RcktS4 (Jan 13, 2005)

This is why I only buy in person from the guy down the street whose sister's chiropractor dates the head roller at the partagas factory.

Good stuff Mo - as always.

(see IHT's sigline)


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## dayplanner (Dec 11, 1997)

Great post Mo. People should talk to PaulMac, he's unearthed about all of the funniest damn fake sites on the internet!


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## Danimal (Jun 6, 2004)

Awesome Mo. Great post once again.


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## Gordon in NM (Mar 9, 2005)

Hmmm, it seems they offer the Trinidad Robusto Extra in a box of 24 (???) for $378

Never seen this vitola in a box of 24's. Reyes yes. Fundadores yes, Coloniales yes, Robusto extra...NO Should be a 12 box or a 5X3 15'er

Fakolas fer shure,

Gordon

I don't know how many bazillion cigar websites I've looked at, but you can usually sniff out the frauds within the first 30 seconds


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## One Lonely Smoker (Jan 21, 2005)

What is happening here? Two posts in a row asking basic humidor questions and a post with a vendor link smack in the middle of it.


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## Da Klugs (Jan 8, 2005)

One Lonely Smoker said:


> What is happening here? Two posts in a row asking basic humidor questions and a post with a vendor link smack in the middle of it.


It's OK as it is not illegal to buy fake cubans. Just a benign vendor link like the one to Pinars.


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## althekillr (Dec 15, 2004)

they just sent a mass email to the guys on their mailliing list. In effect it was the following

" sorry guys for not being able to ship any orders over the past couple months but we have been running into problems with our cc charging system. All monies will be refunded shortly." 

yeah right!

and they also mentioned in the email, they were shutting down, or sold the business or something.

a few months back they would only take money orders or bank wire. 

do not order from these guys.


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## Thurm15 (Jan 28, 2005)

Here's one of my favorites: http://www.getcigar.com/store/

Check those prices out! Not to mention the Hologram.


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## MoTheMan (May 24, 2003)

Thurm15 said:


> Here's one of my favorites: http://www.getcigar.com/store/
> 
> Check those prices out! Not to mention the Hologram.


Hey, I smell Tony Soprano behind this.


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## Cartierusm (Jan 25, 2005)

From Getcigar website, "As we are always looking for ways to improve both our business and our customer service, your recommendations and comments are always welcome."

How about selling the real thing and stop insutling people with prices that no one could get. 

I wish these fake sites posted an address so we could send a box with a hidden webcam and when we see someone open the box we hit a button on our end and it explodeds 1 metric ton of S**T in their face and we could watch it live from CS.


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## Puffy69 (Sep 8, 2005)

I wish these fake sites posted an address so we could send a box with a hidden webcam and when we see someone open the box we hit a button on our end and it explodeds 1 metric ton of S**T in their face and we could watch it live from CS.[/QUOTE]
:r


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## JezterVA (Sep 8, 2005)

Thurm15 said:


> Here's one of my favorites: http://www.getcigar.com/store/
> 
> Check those prices out! Not to mention the Hologram.


 :r I was nosing around this site the other day at work. I saw the crazy prices and immediately became suspect. Cohiba Seleccion Reserva for $260.00 US. Then I saw the infamous..

*GetCigar guarantees authenticity*. All boxes of Cuban cigars sold in official stores on the island and must have the latest hologram sticker affixed to the bottom right-hand corners. The hologram is slightly larger than a postage stamp with an image and a series of small numbers. All boxes purchased on this store have the hologram sticker and latest Cuban government seals.

I sent them an email asking if they would accept returns if their cigars turned out to be phony........no response. Go figure.

In my particular case, I would've possibly bitten on this deal a few months ago. Makes me real glad that I found Club Stogie, and glad to have the Elder Gorillas here to pass on a little wisdom. Thanks Mo and everyone else from whom I've learned.

Cheers!!
Steve


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## vic_c (Sep 7, 2005)

Thurm15 said:


> Here's one of my favorites: http://www.getcigar.com/store/
> 
> Check those prices out! Not to mention the Hologram.


Great website!!

24 Fundadores for $165!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I just ordered 10 boxes!!!
:r :r


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## kvm (Sep 7, 2005)

Another great post Mo. Thanks! You got me to checking it out. What reputable vendor has ad links for overstock and windows casino? All the contact info for the domain is for the same person with a hotmail email address. they also list their address as 2700 Bathurst st Toronto, ON. Here is the link.

Nice place


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## King Cat (Dec 10, 2005)

Mindflux said:


> This site is listed on another cigar forum's links list.. makes ya wonder.


Yeah, if they do indeed sell fakes, that's a little concerning. I wonder which forum you're referring to (perhaps they're more concerned with making a little green w/o taking care of their members and making sure the smokes they sell are legit).

By the way, I don't mean to ask what forum you're referring to (just a hypothetical question). :w


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## habanohal (Sep 7, 2005)

On another site I played the guinne pig for this site. !st of they are fakes, but very good fakes . I ordered 1 box of PSD$, trinidad Fundadore and Boli royal coronass. Now If I didnt have a legit box of each to match up it would be hard to deciefer.

Cigars were off in size along with the boxes. Bands were spot on. 

After all in all I did return and get my $ back and started warning people of their site. I thought when I recieved package they werent legit for it came USPS priority from Miami. Right there Is the 1st sign


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## mosesbotbol (Sep 21, 2005)

In The End

If you have a trusted source, just run with it. Take to heart that you know how much a cigar should sell for and just expect to pay that - there's no deals on one of the world's most sought after products...


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## MoTheMan (May 24, 2003)

mosesbotbol said:


> In The End
> 
> If you have a trusted source, just run with it. Take to heart that you know how much a cigar should sell for and just expect to pay that - *there's no deals on one of the world's most sought after products...*


. . . And when you think about it, they are still one of the most affordable _luxuries_ out there.


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## DownUnder LLG (Mar 29, 2005)

Great info, still learn something everyday here. Thanks guys.


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## King Cat (Dec 10, 2005)

MoTheMan said:


> . . . And when you think about it, they are still one of the most affordable _luxuries_ out there.


Agree!!


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## chabber (Dec 21, 2005)

Thanks for all the good info. And it's true about here in Canada. Everytime I hear you guys mention how much you paid for a stick I gotta laugh. We pay easily...5-7 bucks more here. Scary.


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## mosesbotbol (Sep 21, 2005)

MoTheMan said:


> . . . And when you think about it, they are still one of the most affordable _luxuries_ out there.


:tpd:


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## Millow (Dec 30, 2005)

this place is in my city. maybe i'll go check it out one day to see if its the real deal or not.


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