# The Future of Aging



## Herf N Turf (Dec 31, 2008)

Hola fellow havanaphiles,

With the long-time-coming, but now universal practice of aging tobacco prior to rolling, I'm curious as to what you all think about aging recent and future acquisitions. With most non-Coobuns they are arguably best enjoyed within a couple years of manufacture. Many incorporate 2-10yr old tobaccos, so that once rested, should be consumed, lest they lose much of their pizzazz. While I doubt, given the nature of Cooba leaf, there to be any danger of pizzazz escape, I wonder if there's really any point any longer to the old, "don't even look at it for five years" thing. Or, in Pegler's case, _twenty_-five. 

Thoughts?


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## CeeGar (Feb 19, 2007)

I don't think anything regarding aging has changed. Not for myself, anyway. I will still put certain cigars down for long term. My other cigars will age simply because of my sporadic smoking habits. The only thing that has really changed is that we've been starting with better quality current production. I'm not as reserved about smoking something ROTT as in years past. Most everything from 06-to date has been very good...with 10-11 being excellent. How will a box of superb smoking 11's be in 10 years? Fanfriggintastic! Lol. My :2


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## Habanolover (Feb 22, 2006)

I will be sticking to my previous routine. If the cigars are "that good" ROTT then they should be stellar after their extended nap. :biggrin:

Of course you already knew my opinion on that Don but now it is in writing.


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## Gdaddy (Sep 20, 2012)

Some cigars rolled using aged tobacco may see some improvement. Since the tobacco needs to be wet down in order to roll it it would require some additional time to dry out before smoking. 

Some companies age their cigars after rolling. These may see little to no improvement by letting them age for longer periods. Top shelf, aged cigars are in my opinion ready to smoke right away. 

If a cigar is of poor quality tobacco then aging it may not turn it into something fantastic. You can't polish a turd. However, there have been some reports of cheap sticks that have been transformed into a pleasurable smoke after time.

One example is taking Rocky Patel 'Liga A' Edge seconds from Rocky Patel. The Edge gets aged after rolling before it gets sent out. My opinion is that the seconds get sent out immediately and they skip the after rolled aging process. The Liga A's I've received have been very bitter and bad tasting. It would appear they are too moist. Let them age for 9 months to a year and you've got a great smoke. This is an example of where aging can yield great results.


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## Habanolover (Feb 22, 2006)

Don, this discussion is in the Habanos section and is specific to the state of Cuban cigars.


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## bpegler (Mar 30, 2006)

Five years is still the minimum to consider a cigar aged. Really 10+ years for the vintage stuff. I've been smoking through some cabs of 2001 JL #1s that are spectacular. And '01 was not a very good year, imho.

There are some 1999 Partagas 8-9-8s that are fantastic. And that year had real problems...

In 5 or 10 years, these current cigars will be pure nectar.

On the other hand, I love freshly rolled customs as well.

Go figure...


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## BMack (Dec 8, 2010)

I've watched and played baseball most of my life and if I've learned one thing about Cuba...it's that they never tell the truth about how long something has aged.


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## avitti (Jun 4, 2011)

I agree with Bob on this. I've noticed my 08-09 stock is starting to get a litter sweeter and refined and the great crop of 10-11 will be that much better marked by time.All my stock 04 and older is smoking phenomenal -as waiting for current stock to age 25 years--i'm just hoping im still around and able to enjoy a cigar in 25 years


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## Herf N Turf (Dec 31, 2008)

I'd like to think I understand where most of you are coming from, thus far. But, to be more specific, I'm really referring to stuff we (at least have some assurance of) _know _has been aged, prior to rolling. My study and research on the topic tends to suggest that we can really only be mostly certain of the past couple years. While they began making "the claim" around '06, my belief is that it didn't become what could be considered common practice until just recently.

I guess what's provoking my query is that the cigars I've smoked from mid-2011, until recently, all seem to smoke as though they've had significant age. They're smooth, as opposed to rough and disparate. The burn seems vastly more consistent and draw seems to be as well.

I suppose I would have to concede that "what is good today (strictly in terms of Coobaccy, DONNIE!) will be "pure nectar" (BOB!) in the future.

This has already got very interesting. Let us carry on.


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## fuente~fuente (May 11, 2009)

BMack said:


> I've watched and played baseball most of my life and if I've learned one thing about Cuba...it's that they never tell the truth about how long something has aged.


I've never quite thought about it like that Brian. Makes you think anyway...


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## Herf N Turf (Dec 31, 2008)

BMack said:


> I've watched and played baseball most of my life and if I've learned one thing about Cuba...it's that they never tell the truth about how long something has aged.


In Cuban baseball, 42 is the new 32. So what? LOL


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## thunderdan11 (Nov 15, 2010)

Haha, That is so true. My son playes high level tourney baseball and I can remember him playing some teams who looked at least 5 years plus older.


BMack said:


> I've watched and played baseball most of my life and if I've learned one thing about Cuba...it's that they never tell the truth about how long something has aged.


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## splattttttt (May 17, 2012)

There are plenty of NC cigars that have crossed my path that benefited by aging, even though they're manufactured for immediate consumption. Just sayin.
Though, with my most recent experience after smoking a very well aged AF Hemingway that dated back to 1986. And comparing it to samples that were recently manufactured/purchased, I'd have to say that the vintaged sample was very bland in comparison to it's younger brethren.
I'll admit to not having taken very good care of my cigars until the late nineties... So user error/ ignorance most definitely was a factor here.



thunderdan11 said:


> Haha, That is so true. My son playes high level tourney baseball and I can remember him playing some teams who looked at least 5 years plus older.


were they Cubans? LOL


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## dvickery (Jan 1, 2000)

i will continue to do what i do...smoke some young...age some for a while...age some for a long while.

to me...the first 3 years is not aging just resting...rarely do i open a box of cigars that are younger than 3 years...or that i have had less than a year...not for the purpose of aging but for the mechanics to get in place(even burn , reasonable draw , doesnt keep going out etc etc).

if young cigars have what you are looking for...by all means...smoke em young.
if older cigars have what you want...go ahead and age em.

derrek


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## tpharkman (Feb 20, 2010)

I agree with the older premise of "age is good" for most ccs. The exception for me, since I don't have much of an inventory, is that when I smoke a cigar from a box and it blows my mind then I will keep smoking cigars from that box until they no longer do. For instance, I just had a HdM Epi Espe from '10 that completely rocked my world with flavor and complexity. I tend to smoke like a restless barbarian when I get to actually belly up to a lounge and smoke in a civilized setting. I call it the paradoxical effect of Thad and indoor opportunity.

I started off this cigar with a St. Bernard ale, moved to a Pappy Rye, took a detour with a Titos on the rocks and came full circle with a Ron Zacapa neat and a Jamesons 12 year to finish. The aura of this cigar and its incredible profile of strength coupled with softer complexities stood up better to that collection of booze than the guy smoking it did.

I guess what I am saying is that when I find something to be great I thank my lucky stars and don't give a thought to how much greater it might become with a few or even several more years.


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## OnePyroTec (Dec 11, 1997)

For you fellows who are aging a ton of cigars, can anyone tell me if the '99 or '00 PSD4's ever came around to having flavor?


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## asmartbull (Aug 16, 2009)

OnePyroTec said:


> For you fellows who are aging a ton of cigars, can anyone tell me if the '99 or '00 PSD4's ever came around to having flavor?


Wayne
I can't speak with first hand knowledge, but when I looked to pick a box up, reviews were less than stellar...I found many reviews that stated that the PSD4 as a whole were a major disappointment. I think that is why many were surprised to see how good the 2010 was young........To the OP's question, while current production may be better young, there is still no substitute for 5 yrs of age..On a side note,
for my taste I am enjoying 04 and 06 over many 98-99's ( Don't have much 00-02).


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## Jordan23 (May 25, 2012)

tpharkman said:


> I agree with the older premise of "age is good" for most ccs. The exception for me, since I don't have much of an inventory, is that when I smoke a cigar from a box and it blows my mind then I will keep smoking cigars from that box until they no longer do.


While still very much a newb, this is basically my thinking...


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## thunderdan11 (Nov 15, 2010)

Haha. Nope, but they were Dominicans who spoke entirely in a type of Spanish, not traditional. They were 14 years old, one pitcher threw a 89 mph fastball, had more hair on his face that I did. We were waiting for his wife and kids to great him after the game. Lol.



splattttttt said:


> There are plenty of NC cigars that have crossed my path that benefited by aging, even though they're manufactured for immediate consumption. Just sayin.
> Though, with my most recent experience after smoking a very well aged AF Hemingway that dated back to 1986. And comparing it to samples that were recently manufactured/purchased, I'd have to say that the vintaged sample was very bland in comparison to it's younger brethren.
> I'll admit to not having taken very good care of my cigars until the late nineties... So user error/ ignorance most definitely was a factor here.
> 
> were they Cubans? LOL


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## Breezy818 (Oct 1, 2012)

Herf N Turf said:


> I'd like to think I understand where most of you are coming from, thus far. But, to be more specific, I'm really referring to stuff we (at least have some assurance of) _know _has been aged, prior to rolling. My study and research on the topic tends to suggest that we can really only be mostly certain of the past couple years. While they began making "the claim" around '06, my belief is that it didn't become what could be considered common practice until just recently.
> 
> I guess what's provoking my query is that the cigars I've smoked from mid-2011, until recently, all seem to smoke as though they've had significant age. They're smooth, as opposed to rough and disparate. The burn seems vastly more consistent and draw seems to be as well.
> 
> ...


As my experience is limited,as I try my best not to smoke too recent of production, the "young" production that I've smoked has been all over the place in terms of its readiness.

I've had boxes from 2011 that I smoked pretty dang close to ROTT that was simply amazing. I revisited them a few months later and I'm certain it was in a sick period.( 2011 BPC, 2011 RASS). I wont touch those for at least another year.

I've had 2011 PSD4s that have been consistently good without any sick period transitions. Construction of the PSD4 is another topic. SCDLH El Principe from mid 2011 have been excellent. Not sure how these will age, as they are pretty good at the moment. Another cigar that falls into that category is the HU half Corona. Tasty little suckers. Not sure of the box code as I only picked up a few singles to sample, but these have been so good I'm not certain how well they will age. Not to worry, any future purchases of the half corona won't see much aging time in my humidor.

I have a couple cabs of 2011 PLPCs, which I sampled 1. It was terrible and much too young to even attempt trying another until they have at least 3 or 4 years on them.

And now to the OP - I have a box of 2011 RA extras. And with them being EL we know they we're rolled with aged tobacco. And for anyone that has smoked a RAE, while not sick and shows little to no ammonia traces, we know these have legs to go on.

My observations....


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## Habanolover (Feb 22, 2006)

Breezy818 said:


> SCDLH El Principe from mid 2011 have been excellent. Not sure how these will age, as they are pretty good at the moment.


When these hit about 8-9 years they are absolutely one of the best cigars I have smoked, ever. They will take on a creamy richness that reminds me of fresh churned butter. The smoke coats your mouth with a sweet, salty creaminess that is pure heaven.


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## Breezy818 (Oct 1, 2012)

Habanolover said:


> When these hit about 8-9 years they are absolutely one of the best cigars I have smoked, ever. They will take on a creamy richness that reminds me of fresh churned butter. The smoke coats your mouth with a sweet, salty creaminess that is pure heaven.


Great to know! Might have to stock up with another couple boxes before the "supposed" ax this year. Thx for the comment!


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## splattttttt (May 17, 2012)

thunderdan11 said:


> Haha. Nope, but they were Dominicans who spoke entirely in a type of Spanish, not traditional. They were 14 years old, one pitcher threw a 89 mph fastball, had more hair on his face that I did. We were waiting for his wife and kids to great him after the game. Lol.


I hear that third world citizens mature quicker and progress faster than most other domineering countries. Probably the soil LOL... 89mpf fastball off a 14yr old? WTF!!!

Carry on~ PSD4... I'm intrigued. Good ROTT/Date? Better off aging? I've and... Am still waitin on theis bird to land. That involved one false start with the second flight going just as slow as the first. [/shakes head in disgust]


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## splattttttt (May 17, 2012)

Breezy818 said:


> *As my experience is limited,*as I try my best not to smoke too recent of production, the "young" production that I've smoked has been all over the place in terms of its readiness.
> 
> I've had boxes from 2011 that I smoked pretty dang close to ROTT that was simply amazing. I revisited them a few months later and I'm certain it was in a sick period.( 2011 BPC, 2011 RASS). I wont touch those for at least another year.
> 
> ...


what a modest fellow you are Dan... Say; you fancy bow ties? :thumb:


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## Breezy818 (Oct 1, 2012)

I do fancy bow ties.....on other people. I myself, can't pull off that look. Lol

PSD4- my box is OSR May 11. I've only smoked a handful. First one was about 1month after landing (approx Dec 2011) Wonderful cigar, easily a 94pt'er. Second one a month or so later- just so-so. Poor construction, ok taste. 3rd- another beauty. 90 pts+. And my 4th and last for a while - another terribly constructed cigar. Taste was ok, nothing spectacular. I put the rest of the box down for a deep sleep as batting 500 ain't that great. That was about 6 months ago. I'll revisit for you soon! Hopefully this week


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## TonyBrooklyn (Jan 28, 2010)

dvickery said:


> i will continue to do what i do...smoke some young...age some for a while...age some for a long while.
> 
> to me...the first 3 years is not aging just resting...rarely do i open a box of cigars that are younger than 3 years...or that i have had less than a year...not for the purpose of aging but for the mechanics to get in place(even burn , reasonable draw , doesnt keep going out etc etc).
> 
> ...


THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## MarkC (Jul 4, 2009)

Habanolover said:


> When these hit about 8-9 years they are absolutely one of the best cigars I have smoked, ever. They will take on a creamy richness that reminds me of fresh churned butter. The smoke coats your mouth with a sweet, salty creaminess that is pure heaven.


:lol: Stop it; you're killing me!


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## splattttttt (May 17, 2012)

MarkC said:


> :lol: Stop it; you're killing me!


I know how you feel Mark. Churned butter is right up there with bacon in my opinion. In fact, I tasted bacon in a cigar I smoked just yesterday. At first I thought it was grilled scallop ( ;


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## Habanolover (Feb 22, 2006)

MarkC said:


> :lol: Stop it; you're killing me!





splattttttt said:


> I know how you feel Mark. Churned butter is right up there with bacon in my opinion. In fact, I tasted bacon in a cigar I smoked just yesterday. At first I thought it was grilled scallop ( ;


Well it seems my job here is done! :r

We always see those threads about "If you could just smoke one cigar the rest of your life", if I cold find one that tasted of bacon that would be the one. What cigar was it Jack?


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## fiddlegrin (Feb 8, 2009)

Mmmmm bacon! :hungry:

Where's my knife, fork n lighter?


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## Arnie (Jan 5, 2009)

It seems that the new production gives you a better starting point, but the cigars are still more or less "At the end of the beginning." to paraphrase the great Winston Churchill. Aging is still very much on the table, but for those of us approaching geezerhood it's nice to know time has been sped up a tad. I feel like I just got an extra five years! Maybe I'll live long enough to find out how those 2011's smoke after the 20 year mark. Dang! I just realized I will be almost 80 years old by then. 

I will continue to smoke my cigars regardless of age if they are treating me right.


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## splattttttt (May 17, 2012)

Habanolover said:


> Well it seems my job here is done! :r
> 
> We always see those threads about "If you could just smoke one cigar the rest of your life", if I cold find one that tasted of bacon that would be the one. What cigar was it Jack?


Okay brother, but you'll be surprised when I tell you... G.A.R. torpedo ROTT
The meaty bacon like nuance was at the very end. The last third was where it became the most complex.
The first and second thirds all I was able to note was good fresh tobacco and nuts. Mainly almond with a very clean finish and a ton of smoke. Ash was very straight and solid as was the burn. 
Letting these rest for a few months should get rid of that oh so very slight ammonia and that occasional hint of green leaf. 
What I'm really looking forward to is trying the Opium :hungry:


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## splattttttt (May 17, 2012)

Arnie said:


> It seems that the new production gives you a better starting point, but the cigars are still more or less "At the end of the beginning." to paraphrase the great Winston Churchill. Aging is still very much on the table, but for those of us approaching geezerhood it's nice to know time has been sped up a tad. I feel like I just got an extra five years! Maybe I'll live long enough to find out how those 2011's smoke after the 20 year mark. Dang! I just realized I will be almost 80 years old by then.
> 
> I will continue to smoke my cigars regardless of age if they are treating me right.


I strongly believe that smoking good/better/out of this world cigars, will add years to your life. Wait and see ( ;


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