# Cloning the Frog Mortons



## Gigmaster (Jan 12, 2009)

I have been going through the stages of grief over the loss of McClelland, and specifically the Frog Morton series. I have gone through denial, anger, and the bargaining phase. Now, I have a mission.

I am going to read all can find on blending tobaccos, experiment, and do whatever it takes to blend a clone of the Frog Mortons. I am going to order the required bulk blending tobaccos, and keep working on it until I get it right _(or right enough..._).

Once I find the correct recipe, I will be happy to share with all, so us former Froggies can blend our own. I may also try to clone Mississippi River.

My initial thoughts are that Frog Morton was a blend of Stoved Black Virginia and Latakia. There may have been a slight added flavor, which I will try to capture by adding a little Sutliff Vanilla Custard. Or maybe a little Lane Buttered Rum. This will give me a place to start, anyway. To create Frog Morton On The Town,, I believe the addition of Macedonian Orientals to the previous mixture will do the trick (_I cannot find anywhere to purchase straight Basma Oriental, with was the defining flavor, but the Macedonian has some Basma in it..._). For On The Bayou, I believe just adding a bit of Perique to the previous mix will get close. Across the pond is probably not possible, because I do not believe Syrian Latakia is currently available without going into a combat zone..... It might be possible to get close to it by subbing some Dark-Fired mixed with a small amount of Cyprian Latakia. Syrian Latakia was a milder, sweeter, smoother Latakia...almost like smoked cream.... For Frog Morton Cellar, there is a distillery nearby. I will offer to buy old oak whiskey barrel staves from them, add a chunk to the Frog Morton recipe, and allow it to age a bit.

I welcome any ideas, suggestions or other input.

I do not expect this to be quick, but I am very determined. I made it through Chef's School, Marine Boot Camp, and other grueling courses, so I should be able to get through this. Failure is not an option......ipe:


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## OneStrangeOne (Sep 10, 2016)

I’ll have think about it a bit, all of my ideas so far involve using other McC blends and that’s not gonna help. Once you get the Basics of FM close, tweaking it to get the rest should be possible.


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## tazdvl (Aug 7, 2017)

You've probably seen this, but this is the description from Pipes & Cigars:

"Frog Morton is one of McClelland's most popular Latakia-based blends, and its singular composition sets it apart from the competition. Named for the works of JRR Tolkien, Frog Morton is a village in the Eastfarthing of the shire, and at its heart, the star of the show is dark, rich, and smoky Cyprian Latakia. The Frog Morton tobacco blend also stays away from the usual addition of Orientals and is completed simply with McClelland's fine Virginias, but what makes Frog Morton pipe tobacco so different is a subtle, but complementary top note that ties everything together harmoniously. This unique blend took four years to perfect, and is designed to smoke in quiet serenity; this tobacco is well worth a try."

Hope this helps.


Taz 
I'm not ready for summer!!


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## NightFish (Jan 27, 2017)

Sounds like a worthy quest and I wish you the best of luck. I think that this might be an attempt at a Frog Morton clone https://www.thecountrysquireonline.com/product/shepherds-pie-full-english-oriental/.

I've thought about mixing Sutliff Vanilla Custard with Boswell Northwoods to see how close it comes to Frog on a Log. I'll try it when I gat a chance and get back to you.


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## OneStrangeOne (Sep 10, 2016)

I think the challenge is going to be finding something that approximates the McC Va’s


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## OneStrangeOne (Sep 10, 2016)

NightFish said:


> Sounds like a worthy quest and I wish you the best of luck. I think that this might be an attempt at a Frog Morton clone https://www.thecountrysquireonline.com/product/shepherds-pie-full-english-oriental/.
> 
> I've thought about mixing Sutliff Vanilla Custard with Boswell Northwoods to see how close it comes to Frog on a Log. I'll try it when I gat a chance and get back to you.


The Shepherds Pie sounds pretty good!


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## Gigmaster (Jan 12, 2009)

I'll give them a try. Some of their blends sound interesting.

Thanks for the info.



NightFish said:


> Sounds like a worthy quest and I wish you the best of luck. I think that this might be an attempt at a Frog Morton clone https://www.thecountrysquireonline.com/product/shepherds-pie-full-english-oriental/.
> 
> I've thought about mixing Sutliff Vanilla Custard with Boswell Northwoods to see how close it comes to Frog on a Log. I'll try it when I gat a chance and get back to you.


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## huffer33 (Jun 13, 2017)

Interesting project!

Is Mississippi River being discontinued?


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## Gigmaster (Jan 12, 2009)

I believe Mississippi River was blended by McClelland for Seattle Pipe Club. A lot of other brands had some of their offerings blended by McClelland, such as the Missouri Meerschaum series, and many other well-known blends. When I said the loss of McClelland would leave a huge hole in the pipe tobacco world, I wasn't kidding. Couple that with the loss of Dunhill, and it is a perdition of epic proportions. But at least some Dunhill blends have been cloned by P & C, such as My Mixture 965, Early Morning Pipe, etc... Such is not the case with the McClelland blends, at least not yet.

If you check, I think you will find that most places carrying Mississippi River now show it as Out Of Stock. P & C, in particular, has a preponderance of blends that are Out Of Stock right now, probably because some, or indeed all, of them were blended by McClelland, or used McClelland tobacco in them.



huffer33 said:


> Interesting project!
> 
> Is Mississippi River being discontinued?


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## huffer33 (Jun 13, 2017)

Gigmaster said:


> I believe Mississippi River was blended by McClelland for Seattle Pipe Club. A lot of other brands had some of their offerings blended by McClelland, such as the Missouri Meerschaum series, and many other well-known blends. When I said the loss of McClelland would leave a huge hole in the pipe tobacco world, I wasn't kidding. Couple that with the loss of Dunhill, and it is a perdition of epic proportions. But at least some Dunhill blends have been cloned by P & C, such as My Mixture 965, Early Morning Pipe, etc... Such is not the case with the McClelland blends, at least not yet.
> 
> If you check, I think you will find that most places carrying Mississippi River now show it as Out Of Stock. P & C, in particular, has a preponderance of blends that are Out Of Stock right now, probably because some, or indeed all, of them were blended by McClelland, or used McClelland tobacco in them.


Ugg, thanks for the head's up. I'm pretty new so it helps to get a better perspective of the breadth of the impact.


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## Piper (Nov 30, 2008)

@Gigmaster, I salute your initiative. You are living proof that necessity is the mother of invention. I hope you succeed.:vs_cool:


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## NightFish (Jan 27, 2017)

I could easily be wrong but I thought Seattle Pipe Club blends (MS River) were manufactured by Sutliff.


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## Gigmaster (Jan 12, 2009)

For those of you who liked Mississippi River (_and I am one, myself_), Comoy's Cask No. 11 is very, very close...maybe even a bit smoother. I will probably go back to smoking that, until I get the Frog Morton recipe worked out.


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## Gigmaster (Jan 12, 2009)

I could be wrong, but if you check, Mississippi River is Out Of Stock at P & C. I did not notice any Sutliff blends out of stock. But if that is the case, I will be very happy, because I smoked Mississippi River for a long time before I found the Frog.



NightFish said:


> I could easily be wrong but I thought Seattle Pipe Club blends (MS River) were manufactured by Sutliff.


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## Gigmaster (Jan 12, 2009)

I was partially right, and partially wrong (as usual...).

I did some research and found that Mississippi River was blended by Joe Lankford, then mass-produced by McClelland for SPC from it's inception until 2010, at which time production was moved to Suttliff. People who were familiar with the original tell me that the Suttlliff version lacks a lot of the nuances of the original, but still a great smoke. 

Still not sure why so many blends at P & C are out of stock right now. They told me that tobacco is a natural product and many things can happen that interrupt production. I guess we'll just have to be patient and see what happens. 

I can't even order the blending tobaccos to try to match Frog Morton right now because most of the ones I think I need are Out Of Stock.


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## huffer33 (Jun 13, 2017)

Well, that is good news -

"Andy, our Seattle Pipe Club tobaccos are blended by Sutliff for us using Joe Lankford's exact recipes, leaf and processes. Joe worked with Sutliff hand in hand to assure that Mississippi River and all his blends met his exacting standards. Sutliff has been blending the Seattle Pipe Club blends for many years. When Joe's happy, we're happy!
Ten year old blends are simply different than fresh blends. What happens inside the tin is alchemy. There's a reason why many aged great tobaccos are so highly sought after. As Kyle so wisely said in his review, you will be "rewarded for your patience". Aging is the one thing we have to wait for&#8230;
February 11th, 2017 at 2:13 am "

Tobacco Review: Seattle Pipe Club Mississippi River | The #1 Source for Pipes and Pipe Tobacco Information


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## Hickorynut (Jun 26, 2017)

NightFish said:


> I could easily be wrong but I thought Seattle Pipe Club blends (MS River) were manufactured by Sutliff.


I read somewhere recently that Sutliff was supplying some VA's to McClelland at the end. Maybe there is some hope??


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## NightFish (Jan 27, 2017)

Gigmaster said:


> I was partially right, and partially wrong (as usual...).
> 
> I did some research and found that Mississippi River was blended by Joe Lankford, then mass-produced by McClelland for SPC from it's inception until 2010, at which time production was moved to Suttliff.


Thanks for putting in the research time to figure this one out @Gigmaster. The end of Mississippi River would definitely be something that I would want to know about ASAP.

I wonder if the "special" Virginia leaf in Mississippi River Special Reserve came from McClelland.


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## Gigmaster (Jan 12, 2009)

McClelland was known for their Virginias. I would sure like to know where they got them, so maybe I could get my hands on some. I also need to find somewhere to buy Basma. Still looking....



NightFish said:


> Thanks for putting in the research time to figure this one out @Gigmaster. The end of Mississippi River would definitely be something that I would want to know about ASAP.
> 
> I wonder if the "special" Virginia leaf in Mississippi River Special Reserve came from McClelland.


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## Gigmaster (Jan 12, 2009)

Just got some bad news. I called the Tobacco Barn to see about getting some of the components for Frog Morton, and was informed that it will not be possible to clone any of the Frog Mortons. McClelland got their Virginias from specialized producers to where they controlled the entire process from seed to weed and beyond. They had a proprietary two-year aging and curing process that has gone into oblivion along with the company. The specific Virginias are no longer available, which is one of the reasons McClelland abdicated. 

The only way I could accomplish my goal is to grow my own Virginia tobacco, which would still not be right due to differences in soil and climate for my location, and try to figure out the curing process they used, which would be similar to cracking the WW-II Enigma Code. 

I can, however, experiment and find a mix that I can live with, if I want. However, if I can't get the Frog, Mississippi River was my former favorite, and I think it will still be available. If not, my favorite before that was Comoy's Cask No. 11, which is still available. For my sanity, I may just have to be content with what I can get, and be glad I can still get it. 

I do have a certain ominous feeling of dread. Two major pipe tobacco producers going under in less than 1 year, and right on the heels of new FDA regulations? Not that I am paranoid, but I smell a rat. Strange, I haven't heard of any cigarette companies going away lately. Could this be a coup to kill the pipe industry so cigarette companies will not have to compete against pipe tobacco producers for premium tobaccos? Have they bought and paid for the FDA? Who will be next?????

It's OK. I am going to take my meds now......


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## Fusion (Apr 5, 2017)

I could be way off here but have you tried somewhere like this
https://www.leafonly.com/pipe-tobacco-leaf/tobacco-leaves
https://wholeleaftobacco.com/main.sc

These are the 2 mail suppliers of leaves for us home cigar rollers, i see they have some pipe leaves also, just a suggestion.


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## Gigmaster (Jan 12, 2009)

Wow! I am eternally indebted to you. These are exactly what I was looking for. They have a Basma substitute. I may not be able to copy the Frog exactly, but I'll settle for close enough.

Thank you, thank you, thank you.....:smile2::smile2::smile2::smile2::smile2:



Fusion said:


> I could be way off here but have you tried somewhere like this
> https://www.leafonly.com/pipe-tobacco-leaf/tobacco-leaves
> https://wholeleaftobacco.com/main.sc
> 
> These are the 2 mail suppliers of leaves for us home cigar rollers, i see they have some pipe leaves also, just a suggestion.


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## Fusion (Apr 5, 2017)

Gigmaster said:


> Wow! I am eternally indebted to you. These are exactly what I was looking for. They have a Basma substitute. I may not be able to copy the Frog exactly, but I'll settle for close enough.
> 
> Thank you, thank you, thank you.....:smile2::smile2::smile2::smile2::smile2:


Happy i could be of help to you, at leafonly you can order 1/4lb packs to try them out


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## JimInks (Nov 11, 2012)

Sutliff has a new blend out called East Farthing. They are billing it as a Frog Morton clone. Might be something worth looking into.


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## JtAv8tor (Apr 12, 2017)

JimInks said:


> Sutliff has a new blend out called East Farthing. They are billing it as a Frog Morton clone. Might be something worth looking into.


Thanks for the share !

"I have you now" - Vader


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## JimInks (Nov 11, 2012)

I just got a tin of Eastfarthing. Going to try it tonight.


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## UBC03 (Nov 18, 2015)

JimInks said:


> I just got a tin of Eastfarthing. Going to try it tonight.


Let me know how it goes.. thanks

I've been holding onto my last jar of FMC like my life depended on it. If I could find something close and keep the lid on my stash I might get back into piping a little more often..

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk


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## JtAv8tor (Apr 12, 2017)

UBC03 said:


> Let me know how it goes.. thanks
> 
> I've been holding onto my last jar of FMC like my life depended on it. If I could find something close and keep the lid on my stash I might get back into piping a little more often..
> 
> Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk


Smoke it barefoot ! Haha 

"I have you now" - Vader


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## UBC03 (Nov 18, 2015)

JtAv8tor said:


> Smoke it barefoot ! Haha
> 
> "I have you now" - Vader


Ain't laughin...

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk


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## tazdvl (Aug 7, 2017)

UBC03 said:


> Ain't laughin...
> 
> Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk












I bet Frodo is smoking Frog Morton's!!!

Arizona - But, it's a dry heat!!! 
Taz


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## Fusion (Apr 5, 2017)

im happy i didnt get to try it, now im not hunting for any lol, and NO I DONT WANT A SAMPLE thank you


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## UBC03 (Nov 18, 2015)

Fusion said:


> im happy i didnt get to try it, now im not hunting for any lol, and NO I DONT WANT A SAMPLE thank you


You know I'd give yunz my last buck, but not my last jar of FMC. Got a jar about 2 years old and a quarter jar that 7+. I'll be buried with those.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk


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## Hickorynut (Jun 26, 2017)

Fusion said:


> im happy i didnt get to try it, now im not hunting for any lol, and NO I DONT WANT A SAMPLE thank you


Are you sure? Insert evil laugh here...

Sent from: Bubba's Shine Palace...BYOJ...


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## Hickorynut (Jun 26, 2017)

We need @Gigmaster to weigh in as he was trying many different blends trying to find a suitable replacement.

Sent from: Bubba's Shine Palace...BYOJ...


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## Scap (Nov 27, 2012)

UBC03 said:


> You know I'd give yunz my last buck, but not my last jar of FMC. Got a jar about 2 years old and a quarter jar that 7+. I'll be buried with those.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk


How bout you sell it? 
That way you aren't giving it away...

:vs_laugh:


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## UBC03 (Nov 18, 2015)

Scap said:


> How bout you sell it?
> 
> That way you aren't giving it away...
> 
> :vs_laugh:


Not a chance brother.. not... a ... chance

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk


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## Scap (Nov 27, 2012)

UBC03 said:


> Not a chance brother.. not... a ... chance
> 
> Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk


Haha


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## Gumby-cr (Aug 24, 2008)

I guess I should smoke some of this soon. I forgot I even had these jarred :vs_OMG:


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## cory1984 (Jul 7, 2012)

Gumby-cr said:


> I guess I should smoke some of this soon. I forgot I even had these jarred :vs_OMG:


Nice! By the way, YOU SUCK! :wink2::vs_laugh:


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## Gumby-cr (Aug 24, 2008)

cory1984 said:


> Nice! By the way, YOU SUCK! :wink2::vs_laugh:


One of the positives of getting into pipes in 2014 then not sticking with it then finding stuff you bought back then.


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## Scap (Nov 27, 2012)

Gotta admit, that's kind of why I went deep on my Latakia purchases. Read some stories regarding the crap happening in Cyprus (since Syrian Latakia is extinct) and wasn't getting the warm and fuzzies.


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## MarshWheeling (Aug 27, 2019)

Although I've never tried it, Moonshine XXX Blend is said to be similar to Frog Morton.


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## JimInks (Nov 11, 2012)

MarshWheeling said:


> Although I've never tried it, Moonshine XXX Blend is said to be similar to Frog Morton.


I didn't think so very much. The whisky in Moonshine XXX and the latakia were both stronger than they are in Frog Morton.


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## JimInks (Nov 11, 2012)

Just posted my Eastfarthing review at TR.com.


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