# liquor and wine collecting



## screwbag (Apr 21, 2007)

Okay so in about a month I am going to start on my cellar. a seperate outbuilding underground. I will be storing cigars for sure, but I am also wanting to start into the wine and spirits aging and collecting. my question is what are some good resources for buying/selling of such drinks? google yields little to no result...can anybody point me to some useful info?

Thanks!


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## mosesbotbol (Sep 21, 2005)

You have decide what kinds of wine do you want to collect.

The usual suspects are Bordeaux, Burgundy, Tokay/Sauternes, Port, Barolo & Barbarescos, several Spanish varietals. It depends on how much you want to spend per bottle and how long you want to store it.

In Europe, you may want to consider auctions or buying en Premier and leaving in bond in GB. You can age it there and pay taxes at the hammer amount when picking up years later.

First question is; what do you like to drink? Aging spirits does not do much, as they are aged before bottled. There will be some bottle changes that happen to spirits over time, but that takes a long time to happen and is not the same as the barrel.


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## screwbag (Apr 21, 2007)

well as far as spirits go...i would be trying to buy casks not bottles...i would focus on whiskeys and rums....maybe some other spirits..but those are my two faves

and the wine is strictly is strictly investment....and i am just barely starting to learn....got any good resources on collector clubs? like club stogie but for drinks???


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## mosesbotbol (Sep 21, 2005)

screwbag said:


> well as far as spirits go...i would be trying to buy casks not bottles...i would focus on whiskeys and rums....maybe some other spirits..but those are my two faves
> 
> and the wine is strictly is strictly investment....and i am just barely starting to learn....got any good resources on collector clubs? like club stogie but for drinks???


Good luck on buying casks. Let us know how you make out.

There's too many wine collecting enthusiast clubs; depends what kind of wine you like. There are many collectors in Sweeden.


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## Rolando (Jul 17, 2008)

I hope you make a lot of money. I mean a whole lot. I figured out a long time ago there is a difference between having enough to purchase it and having enough to drink it. You have to have a lot more money to drink than to purchase especially on the really expensive bottles. The problem is you have to find an occasion special enough to do it and that is not as easy as you think. The longer you keep it the harder it gets.


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## mosesbotbol (Sep 21, 2005)

Rolando said:


> I hope you make a lot of money. I mean a whole lot. I figured out a long time ago there is a difference between having enough to purchase it and having enough to drink it.


Just about everyone has a budget and limit. Work within your budget and be consistent; over time you'll have a cellar. Some collect like this:

25% of budget is for long term and/or big name investments
50% is for medium term (6-15 year cellaring)
25% is for 3-5 year cellaring

As the years go by, your wine will be mature and at that rate, you'll always have some mature wine to drink as long as you keep the process going.

If money is tight, I would forget the 1st growth's (unless investment only), and go for 2nd growth's you can afford, or well know 3rd's.

Some invest in wine to stroke their ego's, others for drinking, and others for heirlooms and drinking.

Assuming a decent vintage, a case of 1st growth wine on a child's birth year will pay for a hell lot when they are getting married.


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## screwbag (Apr 21, 2007)

great stuff guys! gives me lots of ideas to research and think about!! thanks again!


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## spyder (Aug 20, 2007)

A good reference for wine cellar design and construction is the How + Why book by Richard Gold = LINK

I'm not too familiar with liquor, but for wine investing, you might consider sticking with highly rated brands and vintages from major critics like Robert Parker, Stephen Tanzer, etc. They tend to drive the market and prices with their tasting scores. Robert Parker's website has a very active user forum (http://dat.erobertparker.com/bboard/) where you can find tons of info and opinions.


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## mosesbotbol (Sep 21, 2005)

spyder said:


> you might consider sticking with highly rated brands and vintages from major critics like Robert Parker, Stephen Tanzer, etc. They tend to drive the market and prices with their tasting scores.


For investment value, this is true. There are a lot of excellent wines that they do not rate so high, especially with RP as he is not a fan of certain style wines. These wines are excellent to buy from the consumer standpoint as they are off the radar for most people.


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## screwbag (Apr 21, 2007)

Great! i'm starting to kinda get some direction for my research....Thanks!


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## mosesbotbol (Sep 21, 2005)

If you live in Sweden, you can try bidding in London auctions and going once a year to collect them. There may be auctions in Sweden, but I haven't heard of any and know of a few wine collectors there. I think the wine collectors in Sweden just have lot of money and don't care about premium prices as much as collectors in England.

You can always go to France, Spain, & Italy and buy right from Chateau's. Knowing good wine and how much is a good price is important when doing that.


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## Fortune500 (Jan 22, 2008)

I too am just starting my journey into wine. I've always liked wine, but never really known enoughto distinguish it, describe it, or stand at the store and go "Hey, let's try this... the bottle's purty".

I just ordered some resources to help me learn more, and attended a wine tasting ths past weekend. I'll be interested in following your journey as you go, too.


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## cherrybomb (Aug 27, 2008)

if you like california cab or zinfandel ridge vineyards is something to investigate. These wines demand that you give them time!


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## mosesbotbol (Sep 21, 2005)

cherrybomb said:


> if you like california cab or zinfandel *ridge vineyards* is something to investigate. These wines demand that you give them time!


Ridge is a big name in CA wines for sure.


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## jkim05 (Feb 26, 2007)

As for purchasing casks of spirits, I only know about Scotch and you don't need any storage space to do so. A lot of the character of Scotch and other spirits has to do with the environment they are stored in, so moving the cask would result in losing some of the flavours that usually develop. If you want to purchase a cask, many distilleries today will sell you a cask at present value and they store it for you until you decide to tap it at which time you either pay for all of the bottling costs and take possession of a full cask's worth or you can have the distillery sell some of it. It depends on what you want to do and what the distillery will do for you. There really is no point in cellaring distilled alcohols, so I would say wine is the way to go. 

The only other thing I can think of would be limited bottlings and vintage spirits as they would no longer be obtainable and the value will rise as the supply shrinks, provided there is a market for it. Some vintage spirits have appreciated significantly merely due to supply/demand, but beyond this, regular production spirits do not really benefit from bottle age.


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## cherrybomb (Aug 27, 2008)

Parkr is a huge slut for overextracted aussie wines right now. Which will be very helpful if you would like to diversify your selection. I suggest Carnival of love by molly dooker, pricey but well worth it. A little sister to that wine would be blue Eyed Boy. 
Little tidbit of information, he also owns Beuxfrerre Vineyards in oregon. A great pinot with a cedar plank smoked wild salmon or rogue creamery orgeonzola. 
Hope this helps as well!
Chris


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## cherrybomb (Aug 27, 2008)

Parkr is a huge slut for overextracted aussie wines right now. Which will be very helpful if you would like to diversify your selection. I suggest Carnival of love by molly dooker, pricey but well worth it. A little sister to that wine would be blue Eyed Boy. 
Little tidbit of information, he also owns Beuxfrerre Vineyards in oregon. A great pinot to enjoy with a cedar plank smoked wild salmon or rogue creamery orgeonzola. 
Hope this helps as well!
Chris


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