# Oh no, I fear a fake.



## jdfutureman (Sep 20, 2010)

Well some of you guys may recall I found my confidence to explore the cc world thru piggy backing a friend's order. It included some Monte #2's, VR Unicos and a box of PSP2's. Well I've been enjoying the heII out of the Monte's and VRU's. I decided to try my first PSP2. 

When I cut it there was almost no resistance. Then I realized it was the most thinly packed cigar I've ever smoke. After a few puffs I got a hint of twang in there but otherwise there was no taste. I had to put it down right away. As visions of wire and hair danced in my head. Thanks to Bull's recent post on another thread. :shock:

Ouch, when I get home I have to check the rest but i expect they will be gone. what a disappointment. At least it was only a box of 10.

It's good to know I've got my own source now and am thru with a friend of a friend deal. Strange how the others were definitely real but these are questionable at best.


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## sligub (Apr 6, 2011)

If the monti and the vr's were good I would initially think crap Cuban qc rather than fake. I've had some sticks from a lcdh that were like that though they tended to be older sticks from before 06.


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## bpegler (Mar 30, 2006)

Provenance is everything in our little world...


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## sligub (Apr 6, 2011)

bpegler said:


> Provenance is everything in our little world...


+1 for truth


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## Habano (Jul 5, 2010)

bpegler said:


> Provenance is everything in our little world...


+2 as well. And John if ever in doubt, post some pics on here for us to examine and I am sure everyone would be glad to help.

And I'm pretty sure you'll have some "real" cigars from the island show up later today or tomorrow!


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## jdfutureman (Sep 20, 2010)

Indeed Bob. Well I disected it and found only long filler so at least that appears to be in order. It was too dark in the cigar bar for pics. 

I'll have to squeeze test the rest before giving another a try but this time I'll have one of my PSD4's at the ready.


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## jdfutureman (Sep 20, 2010)

Starbuck said:


> +2 as well. And John if ever in doubt, post some pics on here for us to examine and I am sure everyone would be glad to help.
> 
> And I'm pretty sure you'll have some "real" cigars from the island show up later today or tomorrow!


Yes David that is very exciting. On the pic front I did post when I received the box but here it is again. Thanks in advance for any help.










and the one I tried to smoke today


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## jdfutureman (Sep 20, 2010)

I'll add one more piece of info. I do have one other PSP2 in my work humidor and it is much more fully packed. Not nearly as soft as the one I attempted to smoke today. Maybe it was a one off but smelling the foot does lack a certain sweetness/richness that my PSD4's have. I won't be tossing them just yet. But it may give them some time since before I battle them again.:boxing:


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## sligub (Apr 6, 2011)

Nothing about the picks screams fake to me, though I've seen some crap legitimates and some awesome fakes,


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## Perfecto Dave (Nov 24, 2009)

Haven't been fond of #2's in my short experience. I'll take the 4's all day long over them.

The pix look ok and everything seems in order. That's only half the battle though.


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## Mante (Dec 25, 2009)

Put them away for 6 months or a year then try another. Could just be sick maybe?


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## TonyBrooklyn (Jan 28, 2010)

jdfutureman said:


> Yes David that is very exciting. On the pic front I did post when I received the box but here it is again. Thanks in advance for any help.


Never had a Partagas with a crappy looking wrapper like that. I have however had real Punch Punch from 05,06,07! With that same wrapper thin as hell you could see through it. It cracks and peels if you breathe to hard. I can't tell from pictures if they are fake or real. I will say this when dealing with cigars and almost anything in life. You first thought is usally the right one!


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## sengjc (Nov 15, 2010)

Mind my asking what the box date is?


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## jdfutureman (Sep 20, 2010)

sengjc said:


> Mind my asking what the box date is?


I don't mind at all. In fact here's the stamp.


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## jdfutureman (Sep 20, 2010)

TonyBrooklyn said:


> Never had a Partagas with a crappy looking wrapper like that. I have however had real Punch Punch from 05,06,07! With that same wrapper thin as hell you could see through it. It cracks and peels if you breathe to hard. I can't tell from pictures if they are fake or real. I will say this when dealing with cigars and almost anything in life. You first thought is usally the right one!


I hear what your saying about your first thought. The strange part is that the Monte #2's and VRU's I received from the same order are spectacular and I have no doubt they are real. As I said right away I'm I don't need to get any from my friend ever again. I can chalk it up to my personal lesson. It seems unlikely that at a Nov 2010 can be sick, am I correct?


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## jdfutureman (Sep 20, 2010)

jdfutureman said:


> I hear what your saying about your first thought. The strange part is that the Monte #2's and VRU's I received from the same order are spectacular and I have no doubt they are real. As I said right away I'm I don't need to get any from my friend ever again. I can chalk it up to my personal lesson. It seems unlikely that at a Nov 2010 can be sick, am I correct?


Oh I forgot to add I squeeze tested the other 9 and they are all packed much better.


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## Mante (Dec 25, 2009)

jdfutureman said:


> It seems unlikely that at a Nov 2010 can be sick, am I correct?


It is quite possible. The tell tale is if you can smell any ammonia in the box. If not then you just got one dud cigar by the sound of it. Enjoy the rest. :smile:


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## sengjc (Nov 15, 2010)

Thanks for the info.

What about barcode test? Does it pass?


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## Nurse_Maduro (Oct 23, 2008)

If the rest of the shipment and that particular box seem okay, then I'd have to agree that you just got a dud. Even Tom Seaver had an off day now and then, so maybe your torcedor did, too.

Was this a place your friend had ordered from before?


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## jdfutureman (Sep 20, 2010)

Nurse_Maduro said:


> If the rest of the shipment and that particular box seem okay, then I'd have to agree that you just got a dud. Even Tom Seaver had an off day now and then, so maybe your torcedor did, too.
> 
> Was this a place your friend had ordered from before?


Yes he has been ordering from them for years but they are grey market.


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## Rays98GoVols (Sep 22, 2008)

hope they are real. I just picked up a 5'er of these with the "exact Box code" POL NOV10. I started a thread in the Habanos section asking what order to smoke 5 different 5'ers in...I'd wait a couple of weeks and smoke another. You probably got 1 dud.


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## Nurse_Maduro (Oct 23, 2008)

jdfutureman said:


> Yes he has been ordering from them for years but they are grey market.


Gotcha. Well, if the box was sealed, then I'm still going with the dud theory.


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## TonyBrooklyn (Jan 28, 2010)

jdfutureman said:


> I hear what your saying about your first thought. The strange part is that the Monte #2's and VRU's I received from the same order are spectacular and I have no doubt they are real. As I said right away I'm I don't need to get any from my friend ever again. I can chalk it up to my personal lesson. It seems unlikely that at a Nov 2010 can be sick, am I correct?


Sick no not ready to smoke Yes!
The sick period many refer to is when a cigar is too wet.
Or rolled to young hence that green taste tanic and high ammonia content.
After 2 years it is impossible for these conditions to still exist IMHO!
Now as i told you those PSP#2 sometimes take 3-5 years to come around!
I would wait on the rst and see what happens.
But its that wrapper and your complaints of under-filled cigars that worries me the most.
Poor quality control in the old days i would say yes.
But in the past 3 years almost non existent!
Also remember while cigars purchased at grey market vendors are ok 95% of the time!
There is always that chance!


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## Mante (Dec 25, 2009)

jdfutureman said:


> Nov 2010


 Luckily you bought a 2yo box John, that rules out the possibility of them being sick. :wink:

As I said, hopefully you enjoy the rest.


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## jdfutureman (Sep 20, 2010)

Tashaz said:


> Luckily you bought a 2yo box John, that rules out the possibility of them being sick. :wink:
> 
> As I said, hopefully you enjoy the rest.


??? Warren, Don't you mean 1 year old?


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## Mante (Dec 25, 2009)

jdfutureman said:


> ??? Warren, Don't you mean 1 year old?


Yes John. I will not post anymore though as I wish nothing but for you to enjoy your cigars. Over & out.


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## Nurse_Maduro (Oct 23, 2008)

jdfutureman said:


> ??? Warren, Don't you mean 1 year old?


Australia is in its own time zone! :biggrin:


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## TonyBrooklyn (Jan 28, 2010)

ound:ound:ound:ound:ound:ound:ound:


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## Mante (Dec 25, 2009)

....................................


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## jdfutureman (Sep 20, 2010)

:biggrin1:


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## sengjc (Nov 15, 2010)

:dunno: :dunno: :dunno: :dunno: :dunno: :dunno:


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## jdfutureman (Sep 20, 2010)

Well I've revived this thread because today I'm smoking my second from this box of 10 after considerable rest from my first stick. Without rehashing my experience I'm glad to report all is well with my PSP2!

I happen to pull the only underfilled stick in the box the first time around and must have also caught it in the sick time. I worried that I might have caught some fakes from my grey market buy thru a friend. This second stick is a super treat and I am a happy camper today. 

Good to know I can close the chapter on my saga on a happy note and with 8 more beauties around. It of course is my first and last grey mrkt buy.


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## Cigar Noob (May 22, 2011)

jdfutureman said:


> Well I've revived this thread because today I'm smoking my second from this box of 10 after considerable rest from my first stick. Without rehashing my experience I'm glad to report all is well with my PSP2!
> 
> I happen to pull the only underfilled stick in the box the first time around and must have also caught it in the sick time. I worried that I might have caught some fakes from my grey market buy thru a friend. This second stick is a super treat and I am a happy camper today.
> 
> Good to know I can close the chapter on my saga on a happy note and with 8 more beauties around. It of course is my first and last grey mrkt buy.


Glad everything worked out.

Every place you would buy from would be considered grey market unless you are buying from a lcdh right? Legit product via unauthorized vendors. Is the definition of grey market different with cigars than other products?


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## bpegler (Mar 30, 2006)

Every single store I know of, including LCdHs, sells grey market cigars. When I go to the LCdH Cancun, and they sell REs from Greece, those are grey market. The term simply refers to the fact that virtually all merchants buy stock from outside their normal distributor. If not for grey market cigars, we could only get REs from that region, so a Vendor in Europe could never sell an Asia Pacifico RE. Habanos SA doesn't really like this practice, but they manage to ignore it.

Quality wise, a grey market cigar is identical.

Now black market is another story. That's where the counterfeits are.


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## jdfutureman (Sep 20, 2010)

Thanks for the info Bob. In my case I used the term to refer to a vendor who removes the serial number to eliminate identifying the source or channel.


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## bpegler (Mar 30, 2006)

jdfutureman said:


> Thanks for the info Bob. In my case I used the term to refer to a vendor who removes the serial number to eliminate identifying the source or channel.


Often this is done by the distributor, not the vendor. Distributors source from other distributors, and don't want HSA to track the practice. So, they remove the bar code.

Funny thing is, I haven't seen a single instance where this was done by counterfeiters. Only authorized distributors and vendors.


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## jdfutureman (Sep 20, 2010)

bpegler said:


> Often this is done by the distributor, not the vendor. Distributors source from other distributors, and don't want HSA to track the practice. So, they remove the bar code.
> 
> Funny thing is, I haven't seen a single instance where this was done by counterfeiters. Only authorized distributors and vendors.


That's interesting and great to know, Thanks


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## Mante (Dec 25, 2009)

Glad I bit my tongue.  LOL. Glad to hear they are on the mend John.


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## jdfutureman (Sep 20, 2010)

Tashaz said:


> Glad I bit my tongue.  LOL. Glad to hear they are on the mend John.


Ha Warren hope it didn't hurt.


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## Mante (Dec 25, 2009)

jdfutureman said:


> Ha Warren hope it didn't hurt.


Not as much as Shuckins Battery & Butter Twang Test. LMAO. Enjoy em mate.


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