# SP 2's comming out..



## mr.c (Apr 8, 2004)

FRom a vendor..

Lastest news from Havana !
Just coming back from a short trip to Havana we have the lastest information on some of the "hot" smokes. The cigar everybody is talking about on the island is the new Partagas Series D No.4 Reserva (see below). Actually I had the pleasure of smoking some more of these "old style" Partagas during the Habanos Festival last week. Still not out on the market very few sticks were circulating around the crowd of connaisseurs. To be very honest I think this cigar comes very close to the classic Series D No.4 - just now it is FAR more expensive. The standart model is the light weight but this Reserva release blows you off your socks. Almost certainly it has a lot of potential for aging withing the next decades. The extremly rich and powerful cigar with dark and oily (!) wrappers will be available on the market soon - rumors say they reach all markets at the same moment to avoid grey market sales. The shipment is supposed to leave Havana by mid of April - and the price on a box of 20 cigars will be above 1000 USD. Thats what it say on the streets of Havana.

*Partagás Series P No.2
The new STANDART model is due out within the next days. The world wide demand on a Partagás Piramid lead Habanos S.A. to the decision to make these beloved cigars commonly available to the market. Prices shall be as Monte 2 !!*

Compared tp a $1000 for 20 this is a steal :r Sounds good enough to try


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## IHT (Dec 27, 2003)

i've seen photos of someone who lives in HK that already HAS some of them. they look fuggin awesome...
and he had them a few weeks back.

i'm waiting for the headsup on when they'll be in. might have to nab a couple boxes pronto.


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## GOAT LOCKER (Aug 7, 2004)

mr.c said:


> *Partagás Series P No.2
> The new STANDART model is due out within the next days. The world wide demand on a Partagás Piramid lead Habanos S.A. to the decision to make these beloved cigars commonly available to the market. Prices shall be as Monte 2 !!*


 If this comes to pass, there will certainly be a few boxes of these in my future!!! Rumor was that these were going to be a lot more expensive!


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## IHT (Dec 27, 2003)

GOAT LOCKER said:


> If this comes to pass, there will certainly be a few boxes of these in my future!!! Rumor was that these were going to be a lot more expensive!


nope, should be the same as a MC #2.

to give the man credit, he goes by "jrhelly" on cigarwise - so if you go pasting those photos, he took them.

this is from his thread:
_"I changed my mind and smoked one of these tonight while playing chess at the local LCDH.

This is an excellent cigar. The draw was fantastic and the burn perfect.
I would say that the blend is half way between that of a PSD4 and a Lusitanias. May be a little bit closer to a fresh PSD4 though. This cigar is THE ultimate Partagas cigar ! Classic leathery/peppery profile from the beginning to the end. Although that box seems to be very fresh, the one I smoked tonight was very complex.

One thing to mention: it is a full bodied cigar, definitely not for the sissies. I'd rate the strength a good 4/5. At least as full bodied as a PSD4, and definitely stronger than a Lusitanias.

For those who wonder if it tastes like the Partagas Piramides EL, I can't say as I didn't have enough of these to compare.

It was high time for HabanosS.A. to release a piramide regular line in the Partagas line.

From that sample, in my opinion this cigar is an absolute success !"_


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## dayplanner (Dec 11, 1997)

Looking forward to a box


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## LasciviousXXX (Oct 12, 2004)

Nice, great price for those SP2's. I'm definitely gonna have to pick some up.

Holy CRAP! $1000 for the PSD4 Reservas?!?!?!?! Damn, they better do my laundry and make me a nice dinner for that price


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## GOAT LOCKER (Aug 7, 2004)

IHT said:


> nope, should be the same as a MC #2.
> 
> to give the man credit, he goes by "jrhelly" on cigarwise - so if you go pasting those photos, he took them.


I certainly don't doubt it, especially coming from a FOG like Mr C. Thanks for posting the review, it's got my mouth watering! (and my credit card nervous)



IHT said:


> It was high time for HabanosS.A. to release a piramide regular line in the Partagas line.[/i]


I couldn't agree more!


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## IHT (Dec 27, 2003)

i thought i read somewhere that the PSD4 Reservas were going to be around $20 a cigar (or 20 x 20 = 400). 
i'll try to dig up a link i saw (on another forum, same forum i read about the P2s).

http://www.boe.es/boe/dias/2005-01-29/pdfs/A03267-03269.pdf

down on like the 2nd page is a list of cigars that are coming to spain, and their prices.
i think they were saying around 20 Euro each is what the PSD4 Reservas will be (20.00 EUR Euro = 26.5452 USD <--- current rate).

---------
goat, i didn't say the stuff in italics, i quoted a french guy who lives in HK who posted that (and the photos of the Party Serie P2s).
just making that clear.


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## mr.c (Apr 8, 2004)

400 a box would be more like it. Still $$$$$$$$$$$$ But they say the box alone, made in spain , is worth $700. Whatever. We will have to wait a couple of months to find out the real price I guess.


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## IHT (Dec 27, 2003)

altadis is figuring out how to make some money though, regarding all the "edition limitadas" and "reservas". 

i will, for sure, grab a box of those SP2s though.


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## Fredster (Jan 26, 2004)

1000.00 for 20 cigars is rediculous. Why can't they just change the blend in the regular PSD4 back to what it was. The ones today really pale in comparison. Of course all cigars seemed a bit stronger pre-95, but this one is a night and day difference to me. The Pyramid sounds good, but to be honest, if it's like the L.E. I won't be buying a lot. I know a lot of people like this cigar. Some of the batches I had were pretty good, med. strength smoothe and chocolatey, but If your looking for a D4 blend in a Pyramid you will be highly dissapointed.


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## dayplanner (Dec 11, 1997)

I'm done with ELs and Reservas....give me good regular production or regular production aged smokes anyday. I may try some of the Pyramids.


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## coppertop (Dec 29, 2003)

1f1fan said:


> I'm done with ELs and Reservas....give me good regular production or regular production aged smokes anyday. I may try some of the Pyramids.


Ditto....not been impressed with either......


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## IHT (Dec 27, 2003)

am i reading into it that you all feel the PSP2 will be like a reserva/EL?

it's supposed to be standard production cigar now.
if you're talking about the PSD4 Reservas, i agree. if they are anywhere near $1,000, they're off my list. oh, and i agree about the ELs/Reservas, i haven't been overly impressed with the ones i have when compared to a standard production cigar.
in my limited experiences.


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## Fredster (Jan 26, 2004)

IHT said:


> am i reading into it that you all feel the PSP2 will be like a reserva/EL?
> 
> it's supposed to be standard production cigar now.
> if you're talking about the PSD4 Reservas, i agree. if they are anywhere near $1,000, they're off my list. oh, and i agree about the ELs/Reservas, i haven't been overly impressed with the ones i have when compared to a standard production cigar.
> in my limited experiences.


If the PSP2 is the same size as the Part. Pyramid L.E., it's a good probability the blend will not change. I do feel the Reservas are worth it for 500.00/box of 30 for a special occasion smoke. Hard to find Cohibas with 5 years age for 17.00 ea. I have seen a bit of fluctuation on the blend or tobacco quality with these. I know some Gorillas feel the early release was better, and that may be, but I just got some with an 03 date that blew my 02's away. There's not a lot of consistancy with blends on any Cuban cigars including these Reservas. The 03's I just finished had the same basic flavor profile, but were much fuller and stronger. Awsome smokes.


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## coppertop (Dec 29, 2003)

When the PSP2 come out I'll buy a box, but if the PSD4 Reservas are going to be $1000......forget about it.


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## Fredster (Jan 26, 2004)

coppertop said:


> When the PSP2 come out I'll buy a box, but if the PSD4 Reservas are going to be $1000......forget about it.


I hear you man! You can damn near get 25 pre-1995 D4's for that price. Even if the blend is close on these new ones, you'll have to wait 10 years for them to be as good.


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## Bruce5 (Jul 27, 2003)

I am not sure if everyone knows the ELs are meant for aging. 
.
I am done with getting "the latest and greatest" cigar. 
They are always in a sick period and usually overpriced.
There are so many good cigars out there, the new ones are just not worth the hype. 
Look at the Edmundo or the Trini Robusto.... I would not smoke one if you gave it to me. 
.
I can take that money and buys better sticks from the 90s.
.
:sb


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## IHT (Dec 27, 2003)

bruce, aren't all cigars meant to be aged a bit before smoking though?
i've read that the edmundos are now starting to come around and rock n roll... (i don't think i've had one yet though - not a mooch attempt, just thinking outloud for a future box purchase).


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## One Lonely Smoker (Jan 21, 2005)

Bruce Cinco is right, if Havanas are the finest cigars in the world (they are), then why do I want to go for something that's _supposed_ to be better, but all of my own experience with the even betters are not so hot. MAYBE these cigars will come around, more likely they WILL, but with my budget, I am going to stock up on tried and true's and be very happy. I can't stand it when I fall prey to hype and find out I knew better to begin with, but just HAD to try it. I love havana cigars, but I hate EL's. I am sure I am in the minority.


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## PaulMac (Jul 15, 2003)

One Lonely Smoker said:


> Bruce Cinco is right, if Havanas are the finest cigars in the world (they are), then why do I want to go for something that's _supposed_ to be better, but all of my own experience with the even betters are not so hot. MAYBE these cigars will come around, more likely they WILL, but with my budget, I am going to stock up on tried and true's and be very happy. I can't stand it when I fall prey to hype and find out I knew better to begin with, but just HAD to try it. I love havana cigars, but I hate EL's. I am sure I am in the minority.


Don't be so sure Lonely Smoker...the overwhelming majority of people I talk to have a so so opinion of the EL's at best, especially when you consider price as part of the equation...sure they may be good, but you can get smokes just as good if not better for a better price in most cases.

PaulMac


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## mr.c (Apr 8, 2004)

A computer rendering of what the psd4 reserva is suppose to look like. (pulled off a post at c.w)


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## Bruce5 (Jul 27, 2003)

IHT said:


> bruce, aren't all cigars meant to be aged a bit before smoking though?
> i've read that the edmundos are now starting to come around and rock n roll... (i don't think i've had one yet though - not a mooch attempt, just thinking outloud for a future box purchase).


.
Greg, 
The ELs have more ligero in them. 
This leaf takes a longer time to come around (do its change/chemical process thing) 
than do other leaves which are of a higher portion in regular production
cigars. Due to this add'l time is *how I * *understand* they are meant for aging. 
.
A side note relating to my prior post on this thread.... You do not see *all * the elder gorillas around here jumping up and down everytime a new cigar comes out or them raving about the ELs. This is just my experience with these in the past year or so.


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## Fredster (Jan 26, 2004)

Overall I don't think the L.E.'s have been worth the extra $$$. But, I have had some that really were good. I have yet to find a reg. production D.C. that comes close to the Monte D.C.'s I had recently. Bruce is right, they suck without age (like most Cubans do), and if you buy them when they first come out for top $, you are wasting your money. Like the Cohiba Reservas, the D4's will come down also. The Cohibas were over 800.00 and now you can find them under 500.00. If the D4 Reservas come down to around 500.0 and if they have aged tobacco (at least 5 years) then I would split a box with someone. For 50.00 a stick I can get some amazing cigars from the 70's and 80's that will be much better than a fresh D4 Reserva. Just my two pennies worth.


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## PaulMac (Jul 15, 2003)

Fredster said:


> Overall I don't think the L.E.'s have been worth the extra $$$. But, I have had some that really were good. I have yet to find a reg. production D.C. that comes close to the Monte D.C.'s I had recently. Bruce is right, they suck without age (like most Cubans do), and if you buy them when they first come out for top $, you are wasting your money. Like the Cohiba Reservas, the D4's will come down also. The Cohibas were over 800.00 and now you can find them under 500.00. If the D4 Reservas come down to around 500.0 and if they have aged tobacco (at least 5 years) then I would split a box with someone. For 50.00 a stick I can get some amazing cigars from the 70's and 80's that will be much better than a fresh D4 Reserva. Just my two pennies worth.


From what I understand since it is a Reserva the tobacco is aged for 3 years...they have plans for a line of Gran Reserva's which will use the 5 yr old tobacco

PaulMac


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## Fredster (Jan 26, 2004)

PaulMac said:


> From what I understand since it is a Reserva the tobacco is aged for 3 years...they have plans for a line of Gran Reserva's which will use the 5 yr old tobacco
> 
> PaulMac


Well, if I had money to burn (and I don't) I would grab a box for a grand. Three years age and 50.00 for a robusto size cigar, OUCH! I guess the Cohiba's had 3 years when they came out also, now they have around 5 and the price has dropped about 40%. I would think the D4's would also unless they are produced in much smaller quantities. If thats the case I won't be smoking any. :hn


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## Heartpumper (Jul 31, 2004)

Expensive, flashy box, difficult to obtain, so fresh the ammonia will make my eyes water? I gotta have 'em!

With apologies to Fredster and Bruce5, I've bought a few boxes of ELs and Reservas- and don't regret it. Exclusivity, presentation and marketing are legitimite factors in selecting a luxury item, and bolster satisfaction. However, most of my ELs are destined for aging. Why? My plain old PSD4s, Trini Fundadores, SLR and Punch Cabs smoke much better.

On the other hand, IMHO, Habanos SA marketing is becoming so American oriented it's tacky.

Bruce, I'm bringing a Trini Robusto to the Herf, just for you.


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## Fredster (Jan 26, 2004)

Heartpumper said:


> Expensive, flashy box, difficult to obtain, so fresh the ammonia will make my eyes water? I gotta have 'em!
> 
> With apologies to Fredster and Bruce5, I've bought a few boxes of ELs and Reservas- and don't regret it. Exclusivity, presentation and marketing are legitimite factors in selecting a luxury item, and bolster satisfaction. However, most of my ELs are destined for aging. Why? My plain old PSD4s, Trini Fundadores, SLR and Punch Cabs smoke much better.
> 
> ...


Hey, nice to see you around again. I absolutely love the Cohiba Reservas and don't mind paying around 17.00 a stick at all. Some of the L.E.'s I've bought have been worth every penny I paid, and some were not. How do you like the last batch of Co. Res. we split? They are a bit fuller than the first batch I split with Bruce.


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## pinoyman (Jan 28, 2005)

Hola Aficionados,

Partagas Serie DNo.4 Reserva for a $1,000.00! If I can afford it I will buy it, but like what everybody said, that's a lot of boxes of good cigars.
About the *Partagas Serie P No.2* I don't mind buying for the same price like Monte No.2, I think it's a great deal for this Cigar.
I've got just a stick of this vitola, the Manager from one of the Cigar Shop here who just been to Havana Festival gave it to me. 
Construction, Feel presentation is just like any cuban cigar.
Now, the oiliness and smell is different, If you are holding a PSD No.4 and Lusitanias side by side and add a little spice, that is the smell.
Smell like a very strong cigar. I'll let it rest for a few days and smoke this vitola. Senor mr.c I hope you don't mind if I'll put up some pictures.

A Big Salud for you!


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## PaulMac (Jul 15, 2003)

The SP2 I am certainly looking forward to as well...certainly a much more attractive price lol

PaulMac


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## Heartpumper (Jul 31, 2004)

Fredster said:


> Hey, nice to see you around again. I absolutely love the Cohiba Reservas and don't mind paying around 17.00 a stick at all. Some of the L.E.'s I've bought have been worth every penny I paid, and some were not. How do you like the last batch of Co. Res. we split? They are a bit fuller than the first batch I split with Bruce.


I smoked a Reserva pyramid last night. First cigar in a week and a half (do you know how cold it was in Buffalo?).

The Reservas are magnificent- on par with the Fundadores, not quite as good as Bruce's Milleniums. I have a more recent box of Reservas, probably for Rob's 21st birthday party in October. Gave up trying to locate aged sticks.


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## Bruce5 (Jul 27, 2003)

Heartpumper said:


> I smoked a Reserva pyramid last night. First cigar in a week and a half (do you know how cold it was in Buffalo?).
> 
> The Reservas are magnificent- on par with the Fundadores, not quite as good as Bruce's Milleniums. I have a more recent box of Reservas, probably for Rob's 21st birthday party in October. Gave up trying to locate aged sticks.


.
Joe is around.
It feels like Christmas.
Great to see you post.


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## IHT (Dec 27, 2003)

Heartpumper said:


> On the other hand, IMHO, Habanos SA marketing is becoming so American oriented it's tacky.


is that Altadis' doing though (didn't they buy part of it or take over marketing)? smart mutha frickers, aren't they, making a profit and all...

glad to see you posting again, heartpumper. how's everything going?


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## PaulMac (Jul 15, 2003)

IHT said:


> is that Altadis' doing though (didn't they buy part of it or take over marketing)? smart mutha frickers, aren't they, making a profit and all...
> 
> glad to see you posting again, heartpumper. how's everything going?


thats why, although its verboten to say so ...I think...someday...somewhere...
down the road...altadis is not stupid...and I think you'll see BGM's again as an EL or Reserva of some sort... the small supply this time sold out in what, less than a day? Just a theory, but I would not be overly surprised if I saw something in the next 5 years.

PaulMac


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## Scott1966 (Jan 20, 2004)

5 years eh? i don't believe ya!


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## radar (Dec 31, 1999)

My only experience with LE's is the RvJ 2001 Robusto. It's a good cigar, but I have standard production smokes I like a lot better. I don't know how these compare to other LE's that are out there, but any cigar at a grand a box, better be the stuff wet dreams are made of.


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## Heartpumper (Jul 31, 2004)

IHT said:


> is that Altadis' doing though (didn't they buy part of it or take over marketing)? smart mutha frickers, aren't they, making a profit and all...


Good point IHT, no argument there.....
Isn't Altadis responsible for corporate redirection to product quality improvement instead of mass production, and deliberate promotion of Cubans as a luxury item?

FYI- pm sent.


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## Fredster (Jan 26, 2004)

radar said:


> My only experience with LE's is the RvJ 2001 Robusto. It's a good cigar, but I have standard production smokes I like a lot better. I don't know how these compare to other LE's that are out there, but any cigar at a grand a box, better be the stuff wet dreams are made of.


Hey Radar,
The Romeo robusto was not my favorite L.E., but I thought they were pretty good. They were a fuller, richer, version of the Exhibition #4 IMO.


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## Fredster (Jan 26, 2004)

Heartpumper said:


> I smoked a Reserva pyramid last night. First cigar in a week and a half (do you know how cold it was in Buffalo?).
> 
> The Reservas are magnificent- on par with the Fundadores, not quite as good as Bruce's Milleniums. I have a more recent box of Reservas, probably for Rob's 21st birthday party in October. Gave up trying to locate aged sticks.


The first batch I split with Bruce, the smaller sizes were awsome, but the larger ring guage sticks were more med-bodied but still great. This last batch the larger ring guage sticks were quite a bit stronger and richer tasting. The Pyramid was my favorite. I like the Millenium robusto better than the Co. Res. robusto for sure, but for my tastes the pyramid edges it out.


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## Bruce5 (Jul 27, 2003)

]


Fredster said:


> The first batch I split with Bruce, the smaller sizes were awsome, but the larger ring guage sticks were more med-bodied but still great. This last batch the larger ring guage sticks were quite a bit stronger and richer tasting. The Pyramid was my favorite. I like the Millenium robusto better than the Co. Res. robusto for sure, but for my tastes the pyramid edges it out.


.
NO!


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## Bruce5 (Jul 27, 2003)

Not to pee pee on anyones parade,
but even with 5 year old tobacco freshly rolled, 
it still takes time for the flavors to blend together.
I do not see how it can be balanced initially.
.
Now watch 1 year from now I will be praising the hell out of these.
LOL


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## radar (Dec 31, 1999)

Bruce5 said:


> .
> Now watch 1 year from now I will be praising the hell out of these.
> LOL


Isn't that the way it's supposed to work?


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## IHT (Dec 27, 2003)

Bruce5 said:


> Not to pee pee on anyones parade,


pee pee?? and all these years i've called that RAIN!!

*side note - my 4 yr old son who doesn't talk the greatest yet (problems with "L's"), i had him say "partagas" last night. came out clear as a bell.  
now he can do all my ordering for me.


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## coppertop (Dec 29, 2003)

IHT said:


> (problems with "L's"), i had him say "partagas" last night. came out clear as a bell.


OH I bet that made Mrs. IHT happy


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## One Lonely Smoker (Jan 21, 2005)

"On the other hand, IMHO, Habanos SA marketing is becoming so American oriented it's tacky" Heartpumper

I don't think they are becoming so American oriented as much as they are becoming sucker oriented. The entire Habanos smoking population of the world is looking for something different, exclusive. It's just that Americans have every reason to believe that it's directed at them. I doubt that it's anything other than internationally-directed marketing. That said, again, I hate EL's. Young or old, they bite.


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## Heartpumper (Jul 31, 2004)

Yup, American=sucker. At least, that's how a lot of retailers view us.

Interesting thread on another cigar site regarding special edition sticks and escalating prices. Not certain if it is against Club policy to identify it, but....

Basically, the same beefs, similar theories about Altadis marketing strategies and what the future of Cuban cigars might be. A recurring comment, however, was that many seasoned smokers will be unwilling or unable to pay outrageous box prices for limited edition cigars.

I love wine. Have coolers and racks that hold a couple hundred bottles. But except for a few exceptional bottles, I believe a good wine should not cost over $30- pretty cheap. I almost never buy a case at a pop. And yes, Fredster, I still haven't opened the bottle you gave me. Saving it for when we can get together again.


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## Bruce5 (Jul 27, 2003)

:s 
We shall see on the new sticks,
I won't be buying them.


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## IHT (Dec 27, 2003)

since we're discussing recent trends....

here's a link to another discussion about recent trends. sorry for the outside source, but it's a good discussion.


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## coppertop (Dec 29, 2003)

good read, thanks for the link Greg


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## DaveC (Sep 4, 2003)

Heartpumper said:


> Yup, American=sucker. At least, that's how a lot of retailers view us.


maybe the retailers u work with do. thats pretty f'in sad.
:tpd:


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## coppertop (Dec 29, 2003)

DaveC said:


> maybe the retailers u work with do. thats pretty f'in sad.
> :tpd:


Dude look at all the sh*t we buy........we are suckers when it comes to new toys and technology. Do I need a phone that can print wirelessly....NO, do I have one, YES...why, because the idea is cool. Would you rather own a stupid mechanical dog instead of a real one....NO, but do I.....LOL NO I don't, I find that thing to be repulsive..although my cats may have fun with it. But the American market does buy into a lot of that "type" of sh*t.


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## Lamar (Dec 12, 1997)

I am with you guys on this one. Not another #%$^# LE...especially one at $1000 a box! I am reaching my saturation point on $40 dollar cigars. Just give me good blends in regular production cigars.


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## filly (Dec 12, 1997)

I haven't cared too much for the LE's except possibly the SD3. I HATE the torps that have been released and almost all of the DC's have either been plugged, bitter or just plain flat. Even the newer blends such as this new short robusto or the Trini's are ok at best. Now I will be hard pressed if the new box of PSD's reserva's are $1000 because that is my all time favorite brand of cigar. I can't wait to try the torp and sure hope it's as good as a really strong PSD. I can't think of one regular line partagas that I haven't liked. I've only had the priviledge of smoking two of the Cohiba reserva's, Corona and torp size (at least I think one was a torp) and they were both very yummy cigars. I still can't see myself spending that much on one box when for the same amount I could have way more cigars.


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## PaulMac (Jul 15, 2003)

filly said:


> (at least I think one was a torp)


wow, that must take some serious drinkin lol
I can see mistaken a corona for a coronas grandes....but a torpedo for anything but? LOL

PaulMac


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## filly (Dec 12, 1997)

Ok smarty pants! lol what I meant was that I smoked a CoTorp BUT I can't remember if it was in the Reserva box or something else! lol and too lazy to look it up. Now had I ever PLANNED on buying a box I'd be sure to peg the exact number of cigars and types found in the box. As it was, I mooched these! :z


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## Heartpumper (Jul 31, 2004)

DaveC said:


> maybe the retailers u work with do. thats pretty f'in sad.
> :tpd:


Amazing, Dave. That you aren't cognizant of the onslaught of marketing ploys launched against you daily to convince you to purchase things you don't need, makes you an ideal consumer. Not stupid or a rube, just a normal human being who covets things that retailers tell them will make their life better.


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## Fredster (Jan 26, 2004)

DaveC said:


> maybe the retailers u work with do. thats pretty f'in sad.
> :tpd:


Been buying Cubans from these retailers for ten years and what Joe said is 100% accurate. If you don't see it, thats pretty f'in sad. Of course they act like your best friend , it's part of the game. :BS


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## DaveC (Sep 4, 2003)

Fredster said:


> Been buying Cubans from these retailers for ten years and what Joe said is 100% accurate. If you don't see it, thats pretty f'in sad. Of course they act like your best friend , it's part of the game. :BS


maybe you're one of the suckers they are talking about then.


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## mr.c (Apr 8, 2004)

WoW this thread has gotten off in the weeds!

If you dont want to buy it, dont buy it. The hype is created by us. Damn communist countries driven by profits :sb what the hell is next? :r

Looking forward to the sp2's and a stick or 2 of the reservas if I can get them. OTherwise I dont worry about it.

You think prices are high now? wait till the embargo is over. Only those with great relationships with their vendor, will see any cubans at that time.

*Bruce 5* if you want to dump some edmundos give me a pm.


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## Heartpumper (Jul 31, 2004)

DaveC said:


> maybe you're one of the suckers they are talking about then.


Still have a b&w TV? Or did you upgrade to color, DVD, VHS, cable, satellite, or HDTV? Convenience=Sucker

Own a vehicle that says LE or LTD, maybe an SUV or sports car? Pride=Sucker

Ever purchased new clothes, even though the old ones are warm and still fit? Fashion=Sucker

People rationalize most purchases as being necessary to live, when in reality they are bowing to vanity. Success of the American economy is based on this principle.


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## dayplanner (Dec 11, 1997)

I'm gonna stir things up with this one....

Indeed, this thread has really gotten into the weeds.

As for Heartpumpers original American=sucker comment, I don’t really think that is right, or applies here. Do the vendors specifically market the EL’s and special releases to us here in the States….nope. I don’t feel any of my vendors are trying to push EL and special release cigars on me. Sure I get updates on pricing and specials, but not just on EL’s, on all regular production smokes also. 

Remember guys these EL and limited editions are not legally supposed to be purchased by US consumers, this is a world-wide marketing plan and the current direction is HIGHLY influenced by Altadis

I think a lot of the hype is created here and on the other cigar boards! Some people just have to have the latest and greatest and lets face it……there is a sea of money out there and some folks can buy what they want. For a regular guy like me, I enjoy regular production just fine.

Please don’t take this personally…. Heartpumper

As for explanation of sucker….dude you are way off. Just because you like to have nice things or like to dress nice does not make you a sucker. Why do most of us work everyday? To have a nice house, a nice car etc…...I just had a look at your user gallery...very nice Reservas and EL's in there......I guess by your definition most of us here are suckers....yourself included. Like I said please don't take this personally, just way to many general statements coming up in this thread now.

ct…..As for new toys and new technology = sucker….look at China and Japan, they always have the latest and greatest electronics first.

While DaveC does not provide much of an explanation (or tact) in his posts….I have to agree with him. If I thought my vendor viewed me as a sucker I’d go somewhere else.

Sorry to disagree with most of you guys, the bottom line is this. The marketing of these cigars is world-wide and a lot of people have the cash to buy these. If I was running a business I would do it exactly the same. Some people find value in limited edition models, whether it’s cars, cigars, watches whatever…..personally I don’t see the need to buy collector item cigars that are NOT for smoking! Some people do and that’s fine.


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## Brandon (Dec 11, 1997)

Yup... whenever a person buys something that is not absolutely necessary, he or she talks themselves into needing it. There's no way this thought process can be considered rationalizing... more like self-trickery and using non-rational justifications.


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## IHT (Dec 27, 2003)

hey, i had a gifted opusx today, tasted like ass...

oh, sorry, wrong forum.

as far as the current debate:

i don't think that ELs and Reservas are aimed directly at the american "black market".
why?
as 1f1fan stated, they're not legal, so why would they market toward us specifically? and this is a world wide market, most every society has people who want the latest and greatest, not just the USA.
also, the first person to send me an EL was a german guy woh lives in Berlin. since he lives around the corner from an LCDH, he has access to all they have, and he chooses to buy the latest/greatest.
we have a guy who resides in cancun, he has a ton of photos of ELs in the gallery (and someone mentioned the new Trinidads).
the guy i quoted about the SP2s lives in HK (he's from france), he just did a review on another site of the late '04 HdM Epicure ELs...

like i've said in my previous posts, i think it's mostly Altadis' marketing plan. someone else mentioned that they read how Altadis wants cuban cigars to be compared to Rolex's... the pinnacle, so to speak.

to me, they already ARE the top dog...

i'm quite happy with regular production cigars though. i'd rather buy 2 boxes of those than 1 box of a big ass EL or Reserva.

that Opus did suck ass though. u


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## Heartpumper (Jul 31, 2004)

Uh oh, I went a couple of posts too far. Sincere apologies to DaveC if I offended you. For my part, I'd rather hear honest opinions from guys like Dave than silence.

Back to the thread.........
I love cuban cigars- Reservas, and ELs- much to the chagrin of Fredster and Bruce5. But Habanos SA has priced them to the point of wishful thinking.

Now, I'm headed home in my Vette, pick up some rare Sushi, feed the pure bred bullmastiff, watch a DVD in surround sound on the HDTV, sip aged single malt scotch and light up an EL Cohiba with my Colibri lighter. (Or it could be pizza night with an SLR Serie A- just as satisfying).

Thanks for listening and comments.


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## radar (Dec 31, 1999)

Heartpumper said:


> Now, I'm headed home in my Vette, pick up some rare Sushi, feed the pure bred bullmastiff, watch a DVD in surround sound on the HDTV, sip aged single malt scotch and light up an EL Cohiba with my Colibri lighter. (Or it could be pizza night with an SLR Serie A- just as satisfying).
> 
> Thanks for listening and comments.


Can we come over?


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## Heartpumper (Jul 31, 2004)

radar said:


> Can we come over?


Sure, but I don't own a Vette, the sushi is more like cheese and pepperoni, the dog cowers under a desk when company comes over.


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## Brandon (Dec 11, 1997)

Heartpumper said:


> the dog cowers under a desk when company comes over.


Is Bruce getting a little too friendly with the dog?


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## radar (Dec 31, 1999)

Brandon said:


> Is Bruce getting a little too friendly with the dog?


That just means Bruce likes him.


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## Fredster (Jan 26, 2004)

Heartpumper said:


> Sure, but I don't own a Vette, the sushi is more like cheese and pepperoni, the dog cowers under a desk when company comes over.


Thought you traded in the BMW for a minute there.


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## Fredster (Jan 26, 2004)

1f1fan said:


> I'm gonna stir things up with this one....
> 
> Indeed, this thread has really gotten into the weeds.
> 
> ...


Good explanation and done so with tact. I don't agree, but thats why we are here, to express our opinions. We are paying thousands of $$$ a year ( I know I am) to smoke some rolled up leaves, dude we're all SUCKERS!!! :hn


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## dayplanner (Dec 11, 1997)

Fredster said:


> Good explanation and done so with tact. I don't agree, but thats why we are here, to express our opinions. We are paying thousands of $$$ a year ( I know I am) to smoke some rolled up leaves, dude we're all SUCKERS!!! :hn


Thanks, this thread needed a little kick in the ass.....

But those rolled up leaves taste soooo good.


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## Bruce5 (Jul 27, 2003)

Brandon said:


> Is Bruce getting a little too friendly with the dog?


.
What can I say?
RUFF, RUFF!
:r


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## gabebdog1 (Mar 9, 2005)

I have been waiting for those its the first on my list to try


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