# Lithium in our cigars ??



## mr.c (Apr 8, 2004)

Anyone read this in cigar magazine? That the cuban soil is high in lithium ( a mood altering drug) and thus the cigars have lithium in them too. No wonder why we are such a laid back crowd. :r 

Looking forward to smoking a lot of it on Sunday!

Joe


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## cookieboy364 (Jan 25, 2005)

mr.c said:


> Anyone read this in cigar magazine? That the cuban soil is high in lithium ( a mood altering drug) and thus the cigars have lithium in them too. No wonder why we are such a laid back crowd. :r
> 
> Looking forward to smoking a lot of it on Sunday!
> 
> Joe


Yeah Joe I did read that atricle, quite interesting.


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## Sickboy (Jan 8, 2005)

Hadn't heard that. Maybe thats why the ISOM veterans defend them so.......
Is it illegal to order an ice cream pail of Cuban soil? :r


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## miketafc (Dec 7, 2003)

Read that article, and looked into it a little more. Guess what it's true, at least the part about lithium soil content. It is also an ingredient in some of the soils that the "Domestics" are grown in. 

And we taught it was the nicotine.


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## MocoBird (Sep 2, 2004)

mr.c said:


> Anyone read this in cigar magazine? That the cuban soil is high in lithium ( a mood altering drug) and thus the cigars have lithium in them too.


COOL!!!......what more could one ask for in a cigar!!


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## floydp (Jun 6, 2004)

Sickboy said:


> Hadn't heard that. Maybe thats why the ISOM veterans defend them so.......
> Is it illegal to order an ice cream pail of Cuban soil? :r


pail hell,how bout a truckload? :r


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## SeanGAR (Jul 9, 2004)

mr.c said:
 

> Anyone read this in cigar magazine? That the cuban soil is high in lithium ( a mood altering drug) and thus the cigars have lithium in them too. No wonder why we are such a laid back crowd. :r
> 
> Looking forward to smoking a lot of it on Sunday!
> 
> Joe


The dosages of lithium salts that are used by the manic depressives are quite high, 450 to 900 milligrams of the stuff per day, even higher when starting, up to 1200mg (i.e., 1.2 grams).

In the cigar magazine article it says the average cuban cigar has ".275 megagrams". Well, I don't want to suggests the average journalist doesn't know squat, but a mega gram is one million grams, so .275 megagram is something like two thousand pounds. I don't know a lot about Cuban cigars, but I daresay they don't weigh more than a ton a piece.

We don't know if he meant milligram or microgram. In any case, we are looking at levels thousands or millions of times lower than the dosages required orally for activity in humans. Certainly smoking may have different pharacokinetics than orally obtaining the lithium, but due to the massive difference in dosage, I expect zero effect on human behaviour from Cuban cigars. But the hardcore are hardcore...may be something to it, just ain't likely to be lithium.


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## MocoBird (Sep 2, 2004)

SeanGAR said:


> The dosages of lithium salts that are used by the manic depressives are quite high, 450 to 900 milligrams of the stuff per day, even higher when starting, up to 1200mg (i.e., 1.2 grams).
> 
> In the cigar magazine article it says the average cuban cigar has ".275 megagrams". Well, I don't want to suggests the average journalist doesn't know squat, but a mega gram is one million grams, so .275 megagram is something like two thousand pounds. I don't know a lot about Cuban cigars, but I daresay they don't weigh more than a ton a piece.
> 
> We don't know if he meant milligram or microgram. In any case, we are looking at levels thousands or millions of times lower than the dosages required orally for activity in humans. Certainly smoking may have different pharacokinetics than orally obtaining the lithium, but due to the massive difference in dosage, I expect zero effect on human behaviour from Cuban cigars. But the hardcore are hardcore...may be something to it, just ain't likely to be lithium.


Are ya just trying to bring me down SeanGar???? :r


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## SeanGAR (Jul 9, 2004)

MocoBird said:


> Are ya just trying to bring me down SeanGar???? :r


Haha, I'm a bit too much of an anal scientist.

Had a Punch Petit Coronation tonight - 30 minute commute turned into 30 minutes of pleasure, and no rush to get home. Lithium? Nicotine? If anything, how about "aromatherapy"? :r


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## Darb85 (Jan 30, 2005)

SeanGAR said:


> The dosages of lithium salts that are used by the manic depressives are quite high, 450 to 900 milligrams of the stuff per day, even higher when starting, up to 1200mg (i.e., 1.2 grams).
> 
> In the cigar magazine article it says the average cuban cigar has ".275 megagrams". Well, I don't want to suggests the average journalist doesn't know squat, but a mega gram is one million grams, so .275 megagram is something like two thousand pounds. I don't know a lot about Cuban cigars, but I daresay they don't weigh more than a ton a piece.
> 
> We don't know if he meant milligram or microgram. In any case, we are looking at levels thousands or millions of times lower than the dosages required orally for activity in humans. Certainly smoking may have different pharacokinetics than orally obtaining the lithium, but due to the massive difference in dosage, I expect zero effect on human behaviour from Cuban cigars. But the hardcore are hardcore...may be something to it, just ain't likely to be lithium.


While your point remains the same it actully comes out to 606 pounds. it is .275 megagrams which is 275,000 grams, which comes out to 606 pounds.


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## Roger Miller" (Apr 15, 2004)

How about the interaction of Lithium with the other compounds in the cigars? Any case for increased bio-response there? Just curious since you guys are scientists and all.  

_____
rm


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## SeanGAR (Jul 9, 2004)

Darb85 said:


> While your point remains the same it actully comes out to 606 pounds. it is .275 megagrams which is 275,000 grams, which comes out to 606 pounds.


You sir are absolutely correct. I shoud have realized it was less than 1000 just by looking at the numbers. Assuming we have enough significant figures, 606.27 or 606.3, if we want to be anal lol.

I was more interested on the other side of the fence so I'll get out excel. 1667 times less lithium in a cigar at .275 mg/gar (which is what I expect) than a 450 mg Li+ dose or 1.67 million times less at .275 µg. I don't know the pharacokinetics of oral lithium, but assume an hour to smoke a cigar, poor recovery in the smoke (amount of lithium ingested in smoke is probably a fraction of what is in the cigar), then it is just silly to think we're all getting happy smoking Cuban cigars.

I might also add that I don't think Li has effects on behaviour in healthy people with normal brain chemistry.

Sean


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## Darb85 (Jan 30, 2005)

SeanGAR said:


> You sir are absolutely correct. I shoud have realized it was less than 1000 just by looking at the numbers. Assuming we have enough significant figures, 606.27 or 606.3, if we want to be anal lol.
> 
> I was more interested on the other side of the fence so I'll get out excel. 1667 times less lithium in a cigar at .275 mg/gar (which is what I expect) than a 450 mg Li+ dose or 1.67 million times less at .275 µg. I don't know the pharacokinetics of oral lithium, but assume an hour to smoke a cigar, poor recovery in the smoke (amount of lithium ingested in smoke is probably a fraction of what is in the cigar), then it is just silly to think we're all getting happy smoking Cuban cigars.
> 
> ...


Id say theres probably a 20 percent absorbtion rate in the smoke of whats in the cigar.


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## SeanGAR (Jul 9, 2004)

Roger Miller" said:


> How about the interaction of Lithium with the other compounds in the cigars? Any case for increased bio-response there? Just curious since you guys are scientists and all.
> 
> _____
> rm


The lithium in Cubans and mood connection is fantasy by a jounalist that is unwilling to look it up in the literature. From: http://www.pslgroup.com/dg/8CF9A.htm

"What's more, he added, lithium doesn't change the moods of people who aren't bipolar, suggesting that their glutamate levels may be positioned consistently within the set zone, and therefore would not be affected by the drug."


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## SeanGAR (Jul 9, 2004)

Darb85 said:


> Id say theres probably a 20 percent absorbtion rate in the smoke of whats in the cigar.


hah, that was exactly what I was thinking myself.... you a doc?


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## mr.c (Apr 8, 2004)

...bet you guys are fun at parties  

:r :r 

I sprinkle lithium on my cigar and smoke it anyways ....  

Joe


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## SeanGAR (Jul 9, 2004)

mr.c said:


> ...bet you guys are fun at parties
> 
> :r :r
> 
> ...


I'll bet you were one of the guys smoking banana peels 20 years ago! LOL.


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## mr.c (Apr 8, 2004)

Well I would have been 10 at the time


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## Darb85 (Jan 30, 2005)

SeanGAR said:


> hah, that was exactly what I was thinking myself.... you a doc?


nope just a insurance major with a major chemistry hobby.


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## DonJefe (Dec 1, 2003)

SeanGAR said:


> Haha, I'm a bit too much of an *anal scientist*.
> 
> Had a Punch Petit Coronation tonight - 30 minute commute turned into 30 minutes of pleasure, and no rush to get home. Lithium? Nicotine? If anything, how about "aromatherapy"? :r


I'm afraid to ask, but I will anyway. What exactly is an anal scientist?


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## miketafc (Dec 7, 2003)

SeanGAR said:


> I might also add that I don't think Li has effects on behaviour in healthy people with normal brain chemistry.
> 
> Sean


That shouldn't include anyone here :r


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## Gargamel (Nov 8, 2004)

Explains the salty taste people have been reporting. Lithium is a salt which has a side effect of water retention. I thought I was getting a bit chubby and now I know why.


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## JohnnyCashFan (Apr 24, 2005)

DonJefe said:


> I'm afraid to ask, but I will anyway. What exactly is an anal scientist?


He is a proctologist?


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## johnnysurvey (Jun 2, 2005)

The worlds needs more people like SeanGAR. I, too, tend to be a tad anal about those type of things, and like to research claims in order to verify or deny them. I tell you what, it would save us a lot of hassle if more did it. Granted, it can take some of the fun out of some stuff...but until people in general can learn to differentiate between fantasy and reality, it's better than nothing.


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## par (May 22, 2005)

Gargamel said:


> Explains the salty taste people have been reporting. Lithium is a salt which has a side effect of water retention. I thought I was getting a bit chubby and now I know why.


 i think there will be a long way before I can convince anyone that the cigars are to be blamed for my cherube like appearance


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## DownUnder LLG (Mar 29, 2005)

Hey, here's a different slant...
They make batteries out of Lithium, so maybe this explains
why some ISOM's don't go out.... hehehehe, you know, like the
Duracell Bunny.... they just keep going and going and ......



Oh sorry..... I'm just being silly again :r 

Well I had a laugh anyway


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