# Any strong tobaccos that won't destroy my mouth? Trying to quit cigarettes...



## The Mad Professor (Jul 13, 2011)

Gentleman, I would like to call upon your experience and wisdom. I have recently been trying to cut back on my cigarette consumption, but I am having trouble getting enough kick from pipe tobacco to combat my cigarette cravings. 

I wish I had time to relax and enjoy a pipe more often, but I'm always seem to be craving a smoke just before I have to do something, thus I usually have a cigarette for the brevity. It is also hard getting that satisfaction without filling my lungs. 

Hence why I have been trying to combat this with some strong pipe tobacco when I have the opportunity to enjoy it, or even half a bowl when I don't.

I have been smoking lots of Dunhill Royal Yacht, which has a pretty good kick and I like the flavor, but it seems to reduce the inside of my mouth to ash, and sometimes burns my tongue (got a burn right on the tip, ouch). 

Unfortunately I can only get about 1/4 way through a bowl of RY before I have to put it down (and guzzle some water!), which is about half as much as I'd like to smoke for my vitamin N dose.

I'd like to try plug or rope tobaccos, or something similar with lots of kick too, but I'm afraid of having worse results with stronger tobaccos than RY.

Is this dry, ashy feeling in my mouth a result of the nicotine in RY? If so will every tobacco with lots of nicotine give me the same results? Or is there another blend I should try maybe? Or is just me?! :ask:

I appreciate your help and input! :yo:


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## MarkC (Jul 4, 2009)

I know this isn't what you want to hear, but I'd quit smoking completely for at least six months and then pick up the pipe again.


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## Commander Quan (May 6, 2003)

I agree with Mark


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## asmartbull (Aug 16, 2009)

A work buddy went from cigarettes to cigars and then to pipes.
He first had to learn to stop inhailing....
9 months and he is cigarette free.


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## CaptainEnormous (Sep 30, 2010)

I went from cigarettes to pipes. 
I never tried RYO tobacco. So I can't say whether the strength there is overwhelming compared to all pipe tobaccos or not.

As far as Royal Yacht hurting your mouth: This sounds like tongue bite, or maybe even a heat burn from smoking too quickly.
If it's tongue bite, then it has to do with your particular chemistry and the tobacco in the blend (Royal Yacht being primarily a VA, I believe).
Try a Burley blend. Even something simple like Prince Albert. I bet you won't get the same tongue issues with that.

Other blends you might look into:

Solani: Aged Burley Flake
G&H: Dark Birds Eye
GL Pease: Jacknife Plug

If you haven't yet, sign up for the http://www.cigarforums.net/forums/vb/general-pipe-forum/78493-newbie-sampler-trade-pipes-202.html and explain that you want to try some medium-to-full strength blends. That's the best way to get exposed to lots of tobaccos fast.


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## ChronoB (Nov 4, 2007)

Isn't Royal Yacht an aromatic? Perhaps an additive is giving your mouth some trouble.


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## freestoke (Feb 13, 2011)

Are you smoking a cob pipe? If not, you probably should be, a Pride or a Legend. These are small pipes that smoke quickly with something like PA in them. Get several and prefill them, so that when you want a smoke, all you have to do is grab one and go. Cobs smoke pretty dry, so the chance of tongue bite is reduced considerably.

You can inhale the PA early, but don't keep it up, maybe just a few inhales early in the bowl while it's not so strong. Lots of pipe smokers take a few early inhales of PA, although I don't. PA shouldn't mistreat your mouth as bad as Royal Yacht. If you want to up the nicotine ante, Five Brothers might be a good bet for the cob. You could also layer it a little if you plan on starting with inhales, putting something stout like Five Brothers or Irish Flake on the bottom half and PA on the top. You'd get the early nic hit from inhaling then as it burned into the IF, a substantial one without inhaling. You can gradually ease into real pipe smoking that way.

If you want a bigger nic hit in pipe tobacco than PA offers, you won't be able to inhale it most likely. GH&Co makes some heavy duty nicotine bombs, like Kendal's Kentucky. 

Personally, I think you can give your mouth a few days rest, get some Biotene mouthwash and give it another go. The mouth, especially the tongue, heal very quickly. As an ex-cigarette smoker who still smokes a few on the golf course for simplicity, I think stopping cold turkey is not all that easy.

And Royal Yacht is a pretty "bitey" mix that takes some coddling to enjoy. I'd say you need fairly decent technique to really enjoy it, something that you can develop with more manageable blends like PA and CH.


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## freestoke (Feb 13, 2011)

ChronoB said:


> Isn't Royal Yacht an aromatic? Perhaps an additive is giving your mouth some trouble.


It's not an aromatic in the OTC sense, with globs of PG and synthetic vanilla, cherry and maple added. It conforms to the old British tobacco purity laws, ie, no artificial flavorings, so it is an "English" tobacco in that sense, although not an "English" in the American sense of containing Latakia. And it has a pretty awful room note, too. :lol: Unless he's allergic to figs or raisins, it's unlikely the tongue bite would be a chemical reaction to additives, rather a basic caustic burn from the alkaline steam.


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## Commander Quan (May 6, 2003)

If you need a quick nic hit you can try 5 Brothers it is a bone dry shag so it'll burn quick and it definitely has a nix kick.


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## freestoke (Feb 13, 2011)

Oh -- just thought of something else. Drink *acidic* drinks to neutralize the alkaline steam condensing in your mouth. Beer, lemonade or orange juice, coffee or tea...almost certainly the high Ph of tobacco smoke is causing the problem in the rest of your mouth and pure heat a lot of the tongue bite part.


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## Nachman (Oct 16, 2010)

Virginias do bite because of the amount of sugar in them. Five Brothers is a good suggestion if you can find it. Another possibility is a stout English like Dunhill Nightcap.


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## Xodar (Mar 4, 2011)

I gave up a 2 pack of day habit in January to swap over to the pipe. Particularly the first few months (and still true now) I found VA, VA-Per, and Burley/VA flakes to be the most satisfying to my insta-Nic cravings. I wasn't necessarily looking for super strong tasting tobacco, but something that took the edge off. The term cigarette-ey is synonymous with tasting like floor sweeping tobacco around here, but early on I was getting the most relief from baccys that were a little reminiscent of cigarette smoke.
MacBaren Navy Flake
PS Navy Flake
MAcB VA flake
Old Joe Krantz (C & D)

Of those, I find OJK pretty bitey, and MacB VA flake can bite easily if smoked too hot. Both navy flakes were good cool smokes, and I have never been bitten by the MacB NF (I still smoke some nearly every day).


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## The Mad Professor (Jul 13, 2011)

freestoke said:


> Oh -- just thought of something else. Drink *acidic* drinks to neutralize the alkaline steam condensing in your mouth. Beer, lemonade or orange juice, coffee or tea...almost certainly the high Ph of tobacco smoke is causing the problem in the rest of your mouth and pure heat a lot of the tongue bite part.


That's good advice, thank you. I was out in the desert this weekend, drinking water, and I found this effect more pronounced. And I usually drink water or clear soda. I guess now I have an excuse to drink more beer. :lol:

I also really like the idea of pre-packing, which I already do when I leave the house, but never considered it around the house, or doing it for throughout the day. This would help immensely to get me to smoke pipes more often than cigarettes.

I really enjoy RY, other than the dry mouth and throat irritation it gives me (and I do use my smallest cob for RY). BTW I have only had this effect from RY, nothing else. Had tongue bite from MacB aro's and others, but this dry mouth was a new thing, and has been consistent for an entire tin, not improving.

Also, I think smoking in the desert and overly dry tobacco had more to do with the tongue bite/burn than anything, since it has only happened once after a whole tin of it.

I smoke PA all the time, and LNF too, but they are usually not enough to quell the craving (I do not inhale). I have some other really strong burley, but it tastes like I'm eating a cigar - C&D Burley Flake #1, I believe.

After my initial post I read a review that described my dry mouth and irritation exactly, although with another blend, and they attributed the sensation to the type of tobacco and not to the nicotine. So I am still hopeful to get a blend that has the nicotine I want, decent taste, and no irritation.

I have been doing my research, and I'm very close to ordering a smattering of GH&co blends: Brown Bogie, Kendal Kentucky, Brown Irish Twist, Ennerdale, and that Dark Birdseye looks pretty good too. Revor plug seems just what I'm looking for (good taste, cool burn, and lots of nicotine), but it isn't available in the US. Hopefully one of these others will give me what I seek.

@ Captain Enormous: Thanks for the suggestions! Jackknife plug has been on my list for a bit now, but you just bumped it up&#8230; and that Solani Aged Burley Flake seems pretty impressive too. :beerchug:

@ Commander Quan and Nachman: Thank you, I had forgotten about 5 Bros.! I have been wanting to try that for a while now too, but always gets replaced before I checkout. :lol:

Thank you to everyone for your thoughts and advice!


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## ChronoB (Nov 4, 2007)

Have you tried nicotine gum or patches? Used in conjunction with pipes I'm sure you could take care of the nicotine cravings. You could gradually phase out the patches/gum until you don't need them anymore. Is that a crazy idea?


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## blackadam (Jun 28, 2011)

I quit smoking (pack + a half a day for 15 years) 4 months ago cold turkey. After about 2 months I started smoking a pipe. I only smoke once a day late in the evening.

I recommend quiting cigarettes completely. A pipe or cigar will never satisfy the cravings of cigarettes. There is something about the nicotine in cigarettes that is completely different from pipes and cigars. In fact after somking a pipe for a little while now, I'm convinced nicotine on it's own is no more addictive than caffeine.


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## ChronoB (Nov 4, 2007)

blackadam said:


> I. A pipe or cigar will never satisfy the cravings of cigarettes. There is something about the nicotine in cigarettes that is completely different from pipes and cigars. In fact after somking a pipe for a little while now, I'm convinced nicotine on it's own is no more addictive than caffeine.


That's because most commerical cigarettes have chemicals added to them to enhance the nicotine and make it more easier to absorb.

There is a History Channel show called Modern Marvels, and one episode is about tobacco. If you watch what goes into a modern commercial cig you won't want to go near one. There are some all natual brands like American Spirit, of course, but most of them are filled with crap.


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## indigosmoke (Sep 1, 2009)

Chrono is right on the mark on this one. I've seen the Modern Marvels he is referencing. A cigarette is basically a disgusting chemical slurry. As for the nicotine, the show describes the chemical reactions Chrono mentioned as being a form of freebasing nicotine. Very nasty. Here's a link to show for anyone who would like to see it:


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## blackadam (Jun 28, 2011)

^Cigarettes are basically the crack cocaine of tobacco.


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## TonyBrooklyn (Jan 28, 2010)

The Mad Professor said:


> Gentleman, I would like to call upon your experience and wisdom. I have recently been trying to cut back on my cigarette consumption, but I am having trouble getting enough kick from pipe tobacco to combat my cigarette cravings.
> 
> I wish I had time to relax and enjoy a pipe more often, but I'm always seem to be craving a smoke just before I have to do something, thus I usually have a cigarette for the brevity. It is also hard getting that satisfaction without filling my lungs.
> 
> ...


I am a noob when it comes to pipe tobacco!
But have enjoyed Tamboo its more like a cigar to me!
Your mileage may vary!


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## CaptainEnormous (Sep 30, 2010)

Nothing against the linked video from above. . .but I have to say: Every time I've seen the History Channel discuss a topic I knew something about, I've wanted to yell at the screen. It's sensationalist journalism.

I'm a reformed cigarette smoker. And I agree that cigs are bad for me, and bad for others. But I'm not sure I buy that the "fillers" in cigarettes are what make them troublesome. I'd say it has more to do with their quick convenience and the idea that they should be inhaled.

I could very well be wrong. And I think it's important to admit this. . .
. . .because to similar ends, I could make a History Channel-esque episode about the toxins (casings, toppings, stoving, etc) in pipe tobacco.


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## Requiem (Dec 6, 2008)

As a cigarette and pipe smoker, I'll leave my two cents on this. 

Don't pick up the pipe thinking it will replace the nasty cigs. 
If you're commited on stop smoking cigarettes the pipe will help, but if you're not really commited it is just a form of having another (the best) way to consume tobacco, although almost useless in the "nic" department.

Actually, the more experienced I am with the pipe, the less I think the addiction with cigarettes is actually related with nicotine. 
Sometimes, I can be smoking a strong pipe tobacco for one hour and the desire for a cigarette is still lingering while I'm puffing.

However, with a strong will, and the necessary "life style" to smoke at least 6 pipes a day, I could drop the cigs (I think...).


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## doctorthoss (Jun 28, 2010)

As someone who has gone from a two-pack a day habit to pipes several times (I always end up relapsing to the cigs after a few months) I feel I can offer some advice. I had the exact same problem for quite a while (tongue bite) but have found some things that will help.
1) First, make sure you are smoking slowly. Let the pipe go out 3 to 4 times during a smoke, and let it rest at least 15 minutes before relighting it. As a cigarette smoker, you are not only getting nicotine through your lungs but you are also accustomed to smoking tobacco that has been treated in such a way as to minimize tongue irritation. 
2) Get some Biotene mouthwash. It's awesome stuff! It won't completely prevent or cure tongue bite, but using some whenever you feel your tongue getting irritated will make a world of difference.
3) As you surmised from your post, you need a good tobacco that will satisfy you without inhaling. It took me a long time to find some tobaccos that fit the bill, but they are definitely out there. Most of them are from 
Gawith, Hoggarth & Co. (you can buy them online), a company from the Lake District of Britain that treats its tobacco in some unusual ways that make it very, very hard to get tongue bite. Plus, some of them REALLY deliver on the nicotine. The four I would suggest you try are Dark Flake Unscented, Dark Flake Scented, Coniston Cut Plug and Kendal Kentucky. The first three are prepared in the distinctive Lakeland style, while the Kendal Ky will remind you somewhat of cigarettes. I'm pretty confident there will do the trick for you! Another option, as someone else pointed out, is to get some Prince Albert or Carter Hall and inhale them gently. These blends have doubled as RYO cigarette tobaccos, so they can be inhaled without tearing your lungs out.
Good luck!!!


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## blackadam (Jun 28, 2011)

Requiem said:


> ...
> Sometimes, I can be smoking a strong pipe tobacco for one hour and the desire for a cigarette is still lingering while I'm puffing.
> ...


Exactly. I remember craving cigarettes during an hour long cigar smoke which even made me dizzy.


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## MarkC (Jul 4, 2009)

blackadam said:


> In fact after somking a pipe for a little while now, I'm convinced nicotine on it's own is no more addictive than caffeine.


There's no doubt in my mind that the chemical bath they give cigarettes modifies the nicotine to a more addictive state, or else there's something else in cigarettes more addictive to nicotine.


> I remember craving cigarettes during an hour long cigar smoke which even made me dizzy.


I tried cigars back in the early nineties when still smoking cigs. First thing I did after finishing any cigar was fire up a cigarette.


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## freestoke (Feb 13, 2011)

MarkC said:


> There's no doubt in my mind that the chemical bath they give cigarettes modifies the nicotine to a more addictive state, or else there's something else in cigarettes more addictive to nicotine.
> 
> I tried cigars back in the early nineties when still smoking cigs. First thing I did after finishing any cigar was fire up a cigarette.


Yep. Has something to do with "freebasing" (cigs) in one case and not the other (cigars/pipes).

Apropos to this discussion from The Lancet:

* SERUM COTININE LEVELS IN PIPE SMOKERS: EVIDENCE AGAINST NICOTINE AS CAUSE OF CORONARY HEART DISEASE
*

*Abstract*

*Serum levels of cotinine (a principal metabolite of nicotine) were studied in men who did not smoke (2, and in men who smoked cigarettes only (150), cigars only (70), and pipes only (56). The mean cotinine level for pipe smokers was 389 ng/ml, significantly higher than the mean level for the cigarette and cigar smokers (306 and 121 ng/ml, respectively); no cotinine was detected in the serum from any of the non-smokers. Large prospective studies have shown that pipe smokers have no material excess risk of coronary heart disease but cigarette smokers do, so that our observations indicate that nicotine is unlikely to be the major cause of the excess coronary heart disease mortality in cigarette smokers.
*
Interesting that pipe smokers have such high nicotine levels.


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## Ben.Reilly (Jun 21, 2010)

Billy Bud by C&D p

I have found it to be pretty strong, yet very easy to smoke.


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## GuitarDan (Nov 26, 2009)

A bit off to the left, but I'd say smoke what you enjoy tastng most; and supplement your nicotine addiction as necessary with some dry snuff: 
W.E GARRETT Honest Tumbler 5oz
Part II. Snuffs Enough..wmv - YouTube


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## El Gringo (Nov 30, 2010)

I've been getting along without coffin nails for the last 10 months by using Camel snus (frost is my favorite) while at work and pipes which I dont inhale, on the weekends and some evenings.

The thing about the snus is its mild enough that you dont need to spit and I can use it at work. Keep a drink handy so you dont get the hiccups.


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## gahdzila (Apr 29, 2010)

Just a thought, but maybe try Swedish snus. I haven't tried it myself, but was thinking of getting one of the small/low nicotine ones myself to have in the afternoon during long shifts at work...I work 12 hour shifts, and absolutely can't smoke at all at work or even in the parking lot, and I definitely start to get irritable in the late afternoon towards the end of my shift.

I no longer smoke cigarettes. I mostly smoke cigars, but I enjoy the pipe on occasion. Many of the milder pipe tobaccos don't seem to satisfy me like a cigar does, so I tend to gravitate towards higher nicotine pipe tobaccos. I like Royal Yacht as well. Just to second some of the previous suggestions: Peterson Irish Flake, C&D Billy Bud, GH&Co Dark Flake (I like the scented, haven't tried the unscented) are my current favorites. 

I'm still a relative noob to pipes, so I'm listening with interest to all the other suggestions here. GH&Co Sliced Brown Twist, and Happy Brown Boogie are on my list to try.


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## Johnpaul (Aug 15, 2011)

El ****** said:


> I've been getting along without coffin nails for the last 10 months by using Camel snus (frost is my favorite) while at work and pipes which I dont inhale, on the weekends and some evenings.
> 
> The thing about the snus is its mild enough that you dont need to spit and I can use it at work. Keep a drink handy so you dont get the hiccups.


+1 for the snus but not american. Real Swedish snus tastes and works so much better. I tried Camel and Marlboro and both of them left me wanting to smoke. I went from a two+ pack a day for years habit to Swedish snus relativity easily. It satisfied the craving that camel did not. A month after starting I hardly feel the need to snus and so I rarely do.


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## El Gringo (Nov 30, 2010)

Johnpaul said:


> +1 for the snus but not american. Real Swedish snus tastes and works so much better. I tried Camel and Marlboro and both of them left me wanting to smoke. I went from a two+ pack a day for years habit to Swedish snus relativity easily. It satisfied the craving that camel did not. A month after starting I hardly feel the need to snus and so I rarely do.


I would like to try the real deal; can you point me in the right direction?
One place I saw it online said they dont ship out of their state... others cant sell smokeless at all.... just herbal snuff.


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## Johnpaul (Aug 15, 2011)

El ****** said:


> I would like to try the real deal; can you point me in the right direction?
> One place I saw it online said they dont ship out of their state... others cant sell smokeless at all.... just herbal snuff.


Sure, but first make sure you don't confuse snuff with snus as they are very different things. The short answer is go to northerner. I think they are out of your state. If you want a bit more information I wrote up some clif notes here.


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## blackadam (Jun 28, 2011)

El ****** said:


> I've been getting along without coffin nails for the last 10 months by using Camel snus (frost is my favorite) while at work and pipes which I dont inhale, on the weekends and some evenings.
> 
> The thing about the snus is its mild enough that you dont need to spit and I can use it at work. Keep a drink handy so you dont get the hiccups.


I also used snus to quit cigarettes. I used it for about 1 1/2 weeks then cut that as well. I noticed that I ended up using less snus then I had thought I would need, and that the withdrawal from cigs to snus was much greater than from snus to nothing. The snus did make quitting much easier.


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## El Gringo (Nov 30, 2010)

Johnpaul said:


> Sure, but first make sure you don't confuse snuff with snus as they are very different things. The short answer is go to northerner. I think they are out of your state. If you want a bit more information I wrote up some clif notes here.


Thanks! I'll look into it.:dude:


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## freestoke (Feb 13, 2011)

Johnpaul said:


> Sure, but first make sure you don't confuse snuff with snus as they are very different things.


I'll say! Never even heard of snus! In fact, I never even encountered the word before, even thinking it was an acronym. (And I did think it was an acronym at first.)


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