# Cuban Embargo - American Freedom



## KevinG (Apr 10, 2005)

What do you think about the Cuban Embargo and Cuban cigars? Do you think the embargo should be lifted? If it is lifted, what do you think will happen in the American market with Cuban cigars?

I give my answers to these questions in an article just published on behalf of the new Puff.com website.

Please feel free to read it and post your thoughts here.

Cuban Embargo - American Freedom


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## madoqa (Feb 15, 2008)

I think the embargo should be lifted, because 'forbidden fruit' isn’t as sweet as you think. 
I can get cuban cigar easily in Japan,and same name cuban brand cigars are better than same name US line. But I think that another brand cigars(Tatuaje,Illusione,DPG,Camacho Diploma,LFD,etc) are equal/above cuban cigars. Actually I smoke Nicaraguan cigars mainly.:ss
If it is lifted, cuban cigars will affect US market, however almost person will continue to smoke non cuban cigars.

Finally, Ron Zacapa 23 is best rum for cigar! I tried cuban rum(Havana Club,Ron Caney,Santiago Cuba,Arecha), but they can't exceed Zacapa for me.
Only Paticruzado is equal to Zacapa.


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## phiphika1453 (Jul 29, 2008)

Def think it should be lifted.

Demand goes through the roof and supply struggles to keep up. 

Result: Prices go through the roof.


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## JCK (Nov 9, 2006)

I do believe that the U.S. should start trading openly with Cuba. I have not been to Cuba, all I can say is only from reports and photos I've seen of the country, but it seems the infrastructure of the country could use some stimulus. Is this the right thing to do for the people that live in Cuba? Will Cuban Citizens benefit from open trade with the U.S? I can't answer that.

As far as trade in Habanos go. It would be nice to know that I could openly purchase these cigars at a local B&M or other places, however I see myself paying more for them in an open trading environment with increased demands and taxable items.


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## raralith (Sep 26, 2008)

Sorry, but I disagree with the majority of the article. We are on a cigar forum, and I'm sure we are all "slightly" biased towards this, but the article, in my opinion, doesn't reflect what I seem to remember historically. Maybe I need to read up on some past historical events. Some of it seems to contridict on itself.

CC's having the reputation of being the best, and smoking only CC's makes you a newb? Later comes in "we have many [other] good choices," but the remainder of the article is how we can't even get CC's in the first place. About the embargo itself, sorry but I feel the embargo should stay in place until Castro dies, and so that CC prices don't inflate due to supply/demand and taxes. Comparing Germany, Japan, and Vietnam to The Bay of Pigs, or all the other situations on how capitalism came out on top aren't great examples either. Also, not being able to get a CC, whatever. Again, not trying to bash the article, just putting some of my feelings out there, whether they be critical or selfish.


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## heavyd (Jun 16, 2008)

I'd like to try Cuban cigars and rum and for that reason I'd like to see the embargo lifted, but only if it is the best interest of the U.S. as a whole. I would be interested in hearing the uncensored opinion of Cuban citizens concerning the embargo.


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## Gone Dave (Mar 30, 2008)

Wow has it been a week already?
This question surfaces almost that fast..( so beat a dead horse to sell mags)
I say leave it, the Cuban criminals (Castro's) could have helped the Cuban people long ago..
There has been no real change there, so there should be no change here..
The rest of the world that trades with Cuba has not done anything for the people, by supporting their products and people, .. They are still poor and under served by the Cuban government, so why give the evil powers more reward..:2


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## rayray812 (Sep 9, 2008)

id imagine official dealers/dist. controlling the market, whichever vendor has the longest bag of 100S....

ON THAT NOTE ILL GOING TO LIGHT UP A CAO AMERICA


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## PerpetualNoob (Sep 9, 2008)

After what, 46 years, I think it's time to admit that it really hasn't accomplished anything. Even now, with 10 years of little to no support from USSR/Russia, nothing much has changed down there. It's not like we haven't given it a chance. If something hasn't worked for that long, and we just keep doing it anyway, you have to wonder if the _stated _purpose isn't the _real_ purpose. The people it was supposed to hurt haven't been affected very much, and the people who have been hurt by it don't seem to have much they can do about it. Even good ideas don't always work out the way you planned. Time to Man Up, admit it didn't work, and move on.

As for the cigars, I'm actually pretty ambivalent about them. I've only had about a dozen of them in my life, and only one of those was memorable enough that I would actually like to have a box of them in the cooler. A lot of that may have been my fault for not taking proper care of them, though. I'm also not very interested in something that needs 3-10 years of additional aging to reach its potential. I'm patient to a fault, but not that patient.

As far as pricing, I'm assuming that state and local taxes plus the new S-CHIP taxes would have them very roughly in the same price range as I just paid for an Opus, or a little more, I might buy one every month or two, but that's probably about it.


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## Pedro de Alvarado (Dec 27, 2008)

madoqa said:


> But I think that another brand cigars(Tatuaje,Illusione,DPG,Camacho Diploma,LFD,etc) *are equal/above* cuban cigars.


I disagree :ss

Furthermore, the embargo is very good for the rest of the world. Otherwise USA snapped a large part of the Cuban production of habanos, and prices rise :cb


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## KevinG (Apr 10, 2005)

raralith said:


> Sorry, but I disagree with the majority of the article ... Again, not trying to bash the article, just putting some of my feelings out there, whether they be critical or selfish.


No offense taken. Just because we disagree doesn't mean we aren't all entitled to our opinions.



> CC's having the reputation of being the best, and smoking only CC's makes you a newb?


You are referring to this part of the article:



> Cuban Cigars have the reputation for being the best in the world, but the truth is a little bit different. If you go around saying Cuban cigars are the best, or that you only smoke Cuban cigars, you just outed yourself as someone that really knows nothing about cigars.


Here is what I was trying to say:

1. I have smoked N/Cs that were way better than CC I have smoked, and vice versa. Just because it is a Cuban cigar doesn't mean it's the best ... in general.

2. I frequently encounter people in these two similar scenarios:

a. I went to visit my dad for the holidays and arrived with a handful of cigars. His friend sitting next to him asked; "Are those Cuban cigars? Cuban cigars are the best".

- This guy is not a cigar smoker. Referring to my #1 above, anyone I know that has smoked cigars on a regular basis is usually aware of this and will agree with it.

- People that are not regular cigar smokers typically and frequently only refer to cigars as Cuban cigars and usually don't even know N/Cs even exist.

I just get a little tired of running into these people and having to explain stuff to them that has been going on for decades like it just happened yesterday.

b. I bet I am not the only one that has been standing in their local B&M when someone walks in asking for Cuban cigars, acting like they know it all about cigars ... and we all just roll our eyes.

It is these types of situations that have happened to me so many times that produced that paragraph from the article.

Does that make sense? Has that ever happened to you?

Do you agree or disagree?


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## Blueface (May 28, 2005)

Rascar Capac said:


> I disagree :ss


Have you had any of the recent tight, cheek snapping Cubans that some have gotten lately?

I think when it comes to this conversation of which is better it is all personal tastes.
I don't think anyone can say one is better than the other unless they agree to agree that it is THEIR opinion and theirs alone. Others are free to disagree.

Are Cubans different? Absolutely a unique flavor that can't be compared.
Are they the best? Well, if that is the flavor you like, then yes, they certainly are.
Frankly, I would trade any Cuban for a Padron Anniversary, any day.
My humidor consists primarily of Cubans.
The reason I don't have any or many Anniversaries is quite simple. They always go first.
However, that is just an opinion.

As for the Embargo, what I think or others think does not matter and not worth consuming much thought.


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## KevinG (Apr 10, 2005)

Blueface said:


> Frankly, I would trade any Cuban for a Padron Anniversary, any day.


Same here. I love the Padron 1964 Anniversary.


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## bazookajoe (Nov 2, 2006)

Blueface said:


> ...As for the Embargo, what I think or others think does not matter and not worth consuming much thought.


If you're talking about the economic or cigar availability side of the issue I agree with you, but I think your (and others') viewpoint does matter when it comes to human rights. It's an unpopular topic and often left out of the embargo debate, which IMO is too often just about having more access to Cuban cigars... :2


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## hornitosmonster (Sep 5, 2006)

*What do you think about the Cuban Embargo and Cuban cigars? *

The Cuban Embargo is not effective anymore. For many reason but mainly because the world has caught up financially with the USA and unlike the US the world is open to trade with Cuba.

Cuban cigars are good, actually better then good, the best...

*Do you think the embargo should be lifted? If it is lifted, what do you think will happen in the American market with Cuban cigars?*

It needs to be revisited, redone, and maybe lifted. The American market will be flooded and the quality of the cigars will go down to meet the demand. We with our "secret" sources enjoy a good product because the average casual smoker does not care enough to find a source (not like it is hard or secret in this day and age).

I think the new "vintage" Cuban cigars will be the ones obtained during the embargo years. Quality will go down and price will go up once the US market is opened.


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## raralith (Sep 26, 2008)

I have never once in my life heard someone walk into an American B&M and ask for Cubans; I think every cigar smoker knows that Cuban's are illegal. Now, have I been offered by a B&M to sell me Cubans'? Yes.

I'm sort of with Blueface on this. It all comes down to what you like as taste are subjective to everyone. Personally speaking, I think CC's are more unique than NC's and comparing them is like comparing an apple to a elephant. While I started with NC's, I rarely smoke them now as I personally find CC's to be better in aroma, flavor, and all around taste. Do CC's live up to their hype? I certainly think they do.

And as for our President-Elect, I'm fairly certain that in May 2008, he said specificly that he would keep the embargo, but be less restrictive on travel and sending money to Cuba. Also, it seems that many Cuban-Americans are still in favor of the Embargo, enough that someoen running for President would take that stance to get their votes, possibly. I can't say I disagree, but than again, politicans do lie. What do rollers in Cuba get paid, $13 a week?

Edit: 
I hate to get poltical about this, but it is what it is. What many of us posters here, Americans, believe in are life liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Many don't believe in universal rights and wrongs simply because no one can say that one society is better than another; people are "different" and therefore it's socially acceptable to them. But when someone needs to work 3-4 jobs to makes ends meet, or some other hardship simply because "that's how it is," people should question this. Yes, this certainly has gotten us into trouble before (Vietnam, North Korea, Bosnia, Iraq, Iraq again, etc...), but this I think is the spirit of the embargo now. I don't think the embargo is there so we can't smoke cigars or drink Cuban rum, and I don't it's there to be "a jerk" to the Cuban people. It's there because we, as Americans believing in the above, find that there are humanitarian injustices that should be corrected before we can continue to foreign relations with the Cuban government. One very large concern is the govenment wage compensation, and honestly, if you don't know how its structured or how things are currently, I highly suggest you simply go online and do a bit of reading.


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## NCRadioMan (Feb 28, 2005)

raralith said:


> I have never once in my life heard someone walk into an American B&M and ask for Cubans; I think every cigar smoker knows that Cuban's are illegal. Now, have I been offered by a B&M to sell me Cubans'? Yes.


FWIW, I work at a b&m and it happens every day. No kidding. People have no sense of history and have no idea we have an embargo on Cuba and if they do, they don't know why.


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## krisko (Jul 28, 2007)

raralith said:


> About the embargo itself, sorry but I feel the embargo should stay in place until Castro dies, and so that CC prices don't inflate due to supply/demand and taxes.


I didn't read the article (yet) but I have a strong opinion of the embargo. It hasn't worked during the 60 years it's been in place and it represents the highest form of hypocrisy as far as diplomacy is concerned. I have no opinion about Cuba as both a cigar smoker and an American. Embargos and severing of diplomatic ties should be reserved only for enemies of the US. Cuba has not been an emeny of the US since Russia stopped using it as a missile base.

If we are going to go down the 'exporting of terrorism' or 'human rights' roads, then I say that argument holds no water. If we continue the embargo on that argument, then we'd better launch an embargo against Walmart because they (and american citizens by extension) are far guilty of supporting dangerous regimes than Cuba is.


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## hornitosmonster (Sep 5, 2006)

krisko said:


> I didn't read the article (yet) but I have a strong opinion of the embargo. It hasn't worked during the 60 years it's been in place and it represents the highest form of hypocrisy as far as diplomacy is concerned. I have no opinion about Cuba as both a cigar smoker and an American. Embargos and severing of diplomatic ties should be reserved only for enemies of the US. Cuba has not been an emeny of the US since Russia stopped using it as a missile base.
> 
> If we are going to go down the 'exporting of terrorism' or 'human rights' roads, then I say that argument holds no water. If we continue the embargo on that argument, then we'd better launch an embargo against Walmart because they (and american citizens by extension) are far guilty of supporting dangerous regimes than Cuba is.


Forget Walmart...The USA itself is guilty of supporting more dangerous regimes than Cuba.


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## krisko (Jul 28, 2007)

hornitosmonster said:


> Forget Walmart...The USA itself is guilty of supporting more dangerous regimes than Cuba.


Without a doubt, which is why the embargo is so laughable.

I've never seen a nationwide poll, but I suspect there are two groups of Americans that have great interest in the Cuban embargo, cigar smokers and cuban exiles. I find it interesting that Blueface supports the embargo, hammers anybody against it and then admits to a humidor dominated by cuban cigars. Blueface is clearly a hypocrite so it's not surprising he would support a hypocritical policy like the embargo.

And getting back to raralith's point, it's a little shortsighted to support the embargo so that CC prices stay low and quality stays high. There would be some bumps in the road regarding pricing and quality but it would all shake itself out over a year or so I would imagine.

I expect Obama will lift the embargo after reelection (if he wins) as certain residents of Florida won't be all that important anymore. I'd like to see him lift it very soon. He can do it under the veil of trying to stimulate the economy. There will undoubtedly be a boon to certain businesses as Cuba ramps up it's infrastructure to deal with hordes of American visitors.


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## rolokatz (Dec 27, 2006)

so my counter question is: do you drink Scotch, Bourbon, or Whiskey? with the follow up of: do you drink single malt or blended?

having smoked different 'bands' from the same company (pick one - Monte, Padron, Partagas, doesn't matter) and found some I like and some I don't, I sure know that 'all cubans' are not better than 'all non-cubans'. 

but what do I see in CA every month? Cubans regularly are at the top of the ratings, and cubans are always featured on the connoisseur's page. so is there something special about tobacco grown in cuba? my guess is YES! Every agricultural crop has a sweet spot (peaches from georgia, Jersey/washington apples, idaho potatoes, etc). Will i run out and buy some when the embargo is lifted? assuming that they aren't any more expensive than what i'm buying now, you betcha. 

I read somewhere recently that cuban tobacco is 'never' blended with other countries' leaf. Yet several interviews with master blenders and company owners state that they are ready to blend cuban leaf. Whether the embargo did or did not accomplish what Washington wanted, it did give us humble herfers something good. It spread all of that wonderful tobacco growing/blending/rolling talent to all of the other 'dominant' tobacco growing regions. and now we have cigars from elsewhere that often outscore cubans! YEAH!!!

Will cuban cigars ever lose their mystique? Not for a long time. Ask someone who owns a lexus/infinity/lincoln about a jag/benz/bimmer. it's the marquee that belongs to the mystique. there's no 'history' to a DR/Nic/Hond cigar. the 'car and driver' set will proudly claim that a Lincoln will out handle a BMW - and in the next sentence bemoan the fact that it's not a BMW. No one cares if a Caddy beat a Lincoln (ok, some might...), but the ads always let us know if either beat their european counterparts. 

Something different happened with wine in the last two decades. First the upstart Napa Valley growers, then the Aussies, and now it's every country for themselves. Is French wine the best? it was, once. and they may still make (on average) a superior product (can't say for myself, I prefer beer), but by and large, nobody cares anymore. now it's just about who's the best, with each 'discovered country' taking their 15 minutes of fame. And people being 'country' or 'region' loyal. will this be the fate of the cuban cigar?

Ask me in 30 years if cubans are better. Assuming I can hear you (or i'm not in a crotchety moods and just don't 'feel' like answering you), the answer will probably be the same...

$0.02 deposited... :ss


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## EastBay (Jun 2, 2008)

RE: I read somewhere recently that cuban tobacco is 'never' blended with other countries' leaf.

I hear persistent rumors that Cuba has been buying Nicaraguan leaf for years now and blends it in. In a way, I am not surprised as the island is small and finite, yet their production numbers are what, 50-60% higher now than in mid 90s, and that is a conservative estimate. Sure, some of their new plantations went online in late 90s and the resultant new blends showed that easily (to the detriment of prior quality), but still, the staggering increase in quantities made cannot be simply due to new plantings. What is curious to see is the sudden exodus of some serious names in cigar making in the past decade or so, could it be in exchange of the leaf? Think about it, communist governments don't do anything without a benefit for themselves. 

Anyway, back to the embargo question. 

Russia is still helping financially, not to the extent they used to in years back, but still. And what does Cuba have to offer the world in trade, cigars and sugar? What else? USSR fell apart by being isolated, Cuba will follow in that same path eventually and lifting the embargo now will only prevent that by giving the existing government money to sustain itself. If they start getting the money they need, why would and should they change their ways save for investnig that new money in better secret police and army to put an even strnger hold on its citizens. I lived in USSR enough to know how they do things, I am curious what is this boards' PERSONAL experience to insist otherwise, that is those who are for lifting the embargo.


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## Blueface (May 28, 2005)

krisko said:


> I've never seen a nationwide poll, but I suspect there are two groups of Americans that have great interest in the Cuban embargo, cigar smokers and cuban exiles. I find it interesting that Blueface supports the embargo, hammers anybody against it and then admits to a humidor dominated by cuban cigars. Blueface is clearly a hypocrite so it's not surprising he would support a hypocritical policy like the embargo.


I am a hypocrite?
Why are you so ignorantly attacking me?

Look up any post of mine since 2005 and show me where I have stated I support the Embargo. Not only are you off base but you have the balls to call me names?
I have never, ever in all my years on CS done what I am about to do.
You sir are an a..hole of the utmost kind.
BTW, the f..ck do you know what is in my humidor?
I would worry more about what is up you a$$.

BTW, I had you on my ignore list and couldn't resist to see what idiot statement you made yet again on this subject.
Lo and behold, you are attacking me.
Back to ignore where you belong.


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## piperman (Sep 8, 2005)

krisko said:


> cuban cigars. Blueface is clearly a hypocrite so it's not surprising he would support a hypocritical policy like the embargo.
> 
> .


 I think your pretty much a ahole, :2


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## raralith (Sep 26, 2008)

I can't see how comparing Wal Mart or regimes backed by the US is relavent to this. Sure, there are gross problems in in case, but simply being a hypocrite doesn't mean that something isn't wrong. If both of us were shooting up on heroin, and I told you heroin was bad, does that mean heroin is therefore not bad because I am a hypocrite? Simply put, there are problems in Cuba, and just because there are similair problems here doesn't make it right over there.


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## Blueface (May 28, 2005)

I said earlier that this subject was not worth discussing for a simple reason.
It is truly not worth discussing.
There is not much any of us will accomplish by it at this time.
That is the main reason I said that.

Now that my blood is boiling, let me expand.
Apparently, there are uneducated, thoughtless, inconsiderate people with minimal reasoning skills that can believe that I want to be kept away from seeing where I was born?
Does anyone think it is easy to see your homeland on a cruise three weeks ago and only be able to see it from 15 miles out and not set foot there?
Does anyone think it was easy not to cry like a baby knowing your wife is seeing exactly the province where she was born and her dad living just over the hills and that is the closest she can come to hugging him?
Does anyone possibly imagine what it is like to have your mom not see her brother in 42 years?
Does anyone know what it is like not to see relatives ever again that passed away while you were in exile from your homeland?
Does anyone know what it is like to have his countrymen die in masses trying to cross a body of water to flee where they live, all on a make shift raft?

Given all that, can anyone imagine ALL Cubans being pro embargo?
Can any intelligent, rational, common sense folks consider for one second there are many Cubans who don't feel the embargo is right?
Can anyone imagine there are approximately 1,000,000 Cubans in the US.
Out of that, I would venture it is split down the middle as to pro and against the embargo.
I base that just on my friends and relatives alone who seem to be split down the middle.
That leaves 500,000 pro, approximately.
500,000 people are responsible for the embargo? Wow!
Can you now figure out where this "hypocrite" falls on this subject?


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## BADS197 (Sep 8, 2008)

We have an embargo ongoing with regards to Cuba because as a country, they have nothing we NEED.

You will never see an embargo of trade against Saudi Arabia for example.. no matter what they do. (oil)

If the country is treating their people well that produce said product then fine, no embargo.. but if they rely on sales of soemthing and that sales profits go directly to a dictator who just uses his people and pays them shit and he gets richer every day.. then screw em.. I don't need whatever it is they are making.

There are plenty of brands of cigars to try and smoke without having to support a corrupt gov't.


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## SeanGAR (Jul 9, 2004)

krisko said:


> I find it interesting that Blueface ....


Wow ... that was just F*****G rude and uncalled for.


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## icehog3 (Feb 20, 2005)

khubli said:


> Will Cuban Citizens benefit from open trade with the U.S? I can't answer that.


That would be the only reason I would support lifting the embargo, if the benefits would actually trickle down to the citizens. Would it at this point? Personally, I doubt it.



krisko said:


> Blueface is clearly a hypocrite so it's not surprising he would support a hypocritical policy like the embargo.


What an ignorant statement, but I am glad you are so sure of yourself. Walk a mile in his shoes. Judge not, lest ye be judged.


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## Pedro de Alvarado (Dec 27, 2008)

BADS197 said:


> There are plenty of brands of cigars to try and smoke without having to support a corrupt gov't.


Kennedy did not think like you 
Please, see the first 25 secs:


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## Blueface (May 28, 2005)

I would hope and believe that with all the friends at CS that know me so well, all can recognize the number of folks my last post was intended for can be counted on one finger at this moment.

I thought I would share some additional comments for those that are truly interested in perspectives, as evidenced by PMs.

After this last post of mine, I happened to be talking to my 72 yr old mom and my 73 yr old dad that live down the street from me as I went to pick up my grandson there.

I knew the responses I would get but I figured I would ask anyhow.
Mom is on one end of this embargo spectrum while dad is on the other.
While mom supports it fully, she falls in that group of Cubans that support the embargo yet violate it daily basically.
Mom sends goods, medicines, money to Cuba on a regular basis as does most of her family.
She doesn't see that as a violation of the embargo.
She, in her world, can separate things in a manner only she can and few can understand unless you walk in her shoes.
She sees the embargo as a method of punishing a corrupt and oppressive government that has stripped Cuba of all. She doesn't see it as impacting the Cuban people.
The reason she doesn't see that is quite simple in her world. She believes, and I agree rightfully so, that the Cuban people are going to suffer regardless with that form of government. As such, why reward the government? If she can send goods to those that need it because we have it available here, she sees that as being able to help her family while the government gets crap out of it.
Now, because of this thinking, is she a hypocrite? Perhaps but how many have brothers they haven't seen in 42 yrs that need medications we have here? How many left everything they own behind and had to start a new life in a foreign land? How many had to go back to college at night while working in a factory all day because their degree in education was not recognized in the US? How many have endured what she and so many Cubans have? Who can judge these people and their intentions and reason why pro or anti the embargo?

I have always openly criticized my own people for being the biggest violators of the embargo BUT not very hard to see why so many feel it is so important to have. Whether I agree with my mom or not, I respect her feelings not because she is my mother, but more importantly because of what she has endured in her lifetime to ensure mine was better. If she is a hypocrite for that, I am darn proud of her regardless.

It is easy to see things from the outside looking in. It is easy to try to explain an accident to eye witness having never witnessed it yourself. Many try that regularly. It is a much different perspective when you see it from another angle, of one that has lived it.

I have never, ever supported the embargo. What I have always adamantly opposed is the regime, communism and socialism. That and the embargo are completely separate and distinct conversations. I have however always understood very well why some Cubans are so adamant about having it in place.

So, to many, the embargo prevents legal purchase of cigars. To the 1,000,000 Cubans in the US, it represents a whole different conversation, with differing opinions even amongst Cubans, all predicated on personal hardships, losses and living a life of exile. If those Cubans here can gain such political clout to be able to impose their personal feelings about the embargo, then in fact they have lived the American dream and their voices have been heard.

Whatever anyone's thoughts on this subject, it does not offend me, I assure you. I believe in the glory of this land and the freedom of speech we are provided and the primary reason why my parents brought me here. Opinions are like a..holes, everyone has one. I was very well baited and bit. I have since had my coffee.

As for Cuban cigars, my logic is quite simple.
It was grown, cultivated, processed, rolled, sold, shipped and sitting in a foreign warehouse.
They got their money a long time ago.
I sincerely doubt anyone's expenditure or lack there of will put the Castro's out of business.
Someone needs to sustain these vendors in foreign lands that have no association with Cuba.


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## walleye (Oct 21, 2006)

I hate political arguments as passions often rise and tempers flair. I can understand the position of the Cuban exiles who support the embargo. Yet, we also must consider we have folks that are now American citizens from many countries, both now and 60-years ago, who were or are exiled from thier homelands. Look at the former Soviet Union, Eastern Block countries, China, Sudan, Burma, and on and on. Many folks I knew never returned to Russia or Poland to see family during the Cold War era. Some died never seeing thier homeland and famlies one last time. Yet, the United States did not impose embargos or in time lifted embargos on these nations. The ability to open Poland and other Eastern Block countries came from American support, trade and commerce. The walls came down because America acted on her values of capitalism and free trade. We owe the same oppurtunity to Cuba. Besides, if the embargo was such a great idea why did JFK hoard thousands of cuban cigars before he signed the Executive Order? He should have destroyed them in public protest. Or maybe the entire concept of trade embargos is a failure and he knew it.

As for cuban cigars, some are good. Smoke what you like and like what you smoke, but at least have the oppurtunity free trade offers to try them legally. The price will be what the market commands, welcome to capitalism, it's a double edged sword sometimes.


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## Blueface (May 28, 2005)

walleye said:


> Besides, if the embargo was such a great idea why did JFK hoard thousands of cuban cigars before he signed the Executive Order? He should have destroyed them in public protest. Or maybe the entire concept of trade embargos is a failure and he knew it.


I think the question of its effectiveness can be answered in a much simpler manner. Look how long it has been in place and Castro took it to his grave with him. He spent 49 yrs in power in spite of it. If it was intended to cripple him, then I would have to say it didn't.


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## KevinG (Apr 10, 2005)

rolokatz said:


> but what do I see in CA every month? Cubans regularly are at the top of the ratings


They are just pandering to the "Cuban cigars are best crowd" that has no freakin' clue. Do you really think CA markets to 'real' cigar smokers?

How many of them have their own limo, private jet and a $10,000 watch?



> Will cuban cigars ever lose their mystique? Not for a long time. Ask someone who owns a lexus/infinity/lincoln about a jag/benz/bimmer. it's the marquee that belongs to the mystique.


HELLO!!?!?

You can freakin' get a 'lexus/infinity/lincoln' in every darn country including the USA ... legally.



> there's no 'history' to a DR/Nic/Hond cigar.


If you were born yesterday.



> Something different happened with wine in the last two decades. First the upstart Napa Valley growers, then the Aussies, and now it's every country for themselves. Is French wine the best? it was, once. and they may still make (on average) a superior product (can't say for myself, I prefer beer)


Then you have no clue about wine either.



> , but by and large, nobody cares anymore.


If they only drink beer.

You give a good example with wine. 'French Wine' means the same as 'Cuban Cigars' these days.

Some are really good and many wines (and cigars) from other countries are just as good if not better.


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## Blueface (May 28, 2005)

walleye said:


> I hate political arguments as passions often rise and tempers flair.


Usually goes downhill when one person cannot keep to the task at hand and decides to blindside the other.
Happens in all subjects just about.


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## orca99usa (May 23, 2008)

The embargo failed in its central purpose decades ago. The idea was to force Castro from office and force democratic reforms in Cuba. Here we are 45 years or so later, and only ill health forced Castro from power. The lack of trade/help pushed Cuba into the arms of the Russians, and if anything it has delayed democratic reform by decades. The rest of the world trades with and travels to Cuba. It makes America look like the bully on the block, and the embargo needs to go. If you want change in Cuba, let Cubans be exposed to American citizens, trade and culture.

I wouldn't mind picking up a few legal Cohibas (and I don't mean the ripoff Dominican crap) at my B&M either. :w


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## KevinG (Apr 10, 2005)

Hey guys -

I am glad I provoked a good discussion.
*
Question:

Did everyone that posted here actually READ my article?*

In case you didn't, please do before commenting:
http://www.cigar-review.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=872&Itemid=2

Yes, I submitted my own personal strong opinion as did others in this thread.

Here's a couple of things that may have been missed.

- I live in the Miami area - I live the controversy.

- My fiance is Cuban. Her parents fled Cuba as exiles.

- Her mother is adamantly for keeping the Embargo.

- Her father (whom I interviewed in the article) is against it.

What I published BARELY scratches the surface, but I know, love and live with people that have LIVED it and continue to do so.

I do not claim to be an expert, but I do have the benefit of intimately knowing and talking to people that were there then and are here now.

All I am saying is to keep in mind who is commenting and from what perspective.


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## Blueface (May 28, 2005)

rolokatz said:


> with each 'discovered country' taking their 15 minutes of fame. And people being 'country' or 'region' loyal. will this be the fate of the cuban cigar?


Well, when Columbus discovered Cuba, the Indians were smoking Cuban tobacco.
Since then, its rise to fame developed.
It has been one heck of a long 15 minutes.:r


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## Jonesee (Dec 30, 2005)

Let's take all the personal attacks out of this and look at the data.

I have seen some data on the subject. Among the Cuban -American population it tells us:
1. The actual Cuban refugees still strongly support the embargo.
2. 2nd generation and beyond Cuban-Americans (those born to refugees) support lifting the embargo by a wide majority. I believe the number was 73%. 
One of my best friends is a refugee. (man I must be old) He adamantly supports the embargo. To the point I don't even bring it up anymore. I think he is typical.

And, why has this continued. The cuban population in America and Miami in particular, is very organized and politically active in a state that can be the key to either political party and the Presidency in particular. No politician is willing to abandon this political power base. The cuban political block is likely disproportinately powerful given their actual population numbers

Secondly: Cuba represents the closest (90 miles away) communist regime to the USA. The United States has had their arses handed to them every time they have meddled in Central and South American politics. Ugo Chavez being the most recent example. Politically, we just can't seem to ignore Cuba. It is small, relatively powerless since the collapse of the Soviet Union, and can't retaliate in any meaningful way. They have become the communist kick-dog because of it.

Politicaly; President George W. did alot to strengthen and add teeth to the embargo. Prior to him Clinton had begun relaxing the embargo. Because of political leaning it is likely you will see the new President Obama relax the embargo again. The republican party has always taken a harder line on anything that smacked of communism. The democrats not so much.


Here Is The Bottom Line:
Where does this leave the discussion on cuban cigars? Go grab an economics textbook. Pay particular attention to the chapters on supply and demand, the elasticity of each and also the chapter on substitute goods. That will tell you more than trying to read the tea leaves that are politics in the USA. 

And for gawds sake, let's all get along.  Politics is fun to dicuss and debate, but no one should ever lose a friend over it.


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## krisko (Jul 28, 2007)

Blueface said:


> I am a hypocrite?
> 
> Look up any post of mine since 2005 and show me where I have stated I support the Embargo. Not only are you off base but you have the balls to call me names?
> I have never, ever in all my years on CS done what I am about to do.
> ...


You've relentlessly attacked those who are against the embargo so I'm left to assume you support it. Not to mention you appear to be a cuban exile and the vast majority of them support the embargo. And you yourself just said that the majority of cigars in your humidor are Cuban...check page 1 of this thread.

I didn't call you a name, I merely pointed out a fact. If in fact you support the embargo and if in fact you have Cuban cigars in your humidor then that is the very definition of 'hypocrit'. If you do not support the embargo and/or do not smoke cuban cigars then I am in error and I respectfully apologize. And speaking of being respectful, it is YOU that is flinging out names. You just called me an A-hole and you've called me and others worse in recent threads.

You are truly out of control and you need to either dial it back or just turn the damned computer off for a week! Cheers!:ss


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## krisko (Jul 28, 2007)

raralith said:


> I can't see how comparing Wal Mart or regimes backed by the US is relavent to this. Sure, there are gross problems in in case, but simply being a hypocrite doesn't mean that something isn't wrong. If both of us were shooting up on heroin, and I told you heroin was bad, does that mean heroin is therefore not bad because I am a hypocrite? Simply put, there are problems in Cuba, and just because there are similair problems here doesn't make it right over there.


I don't understand most of this post...I'll address the points I think you made.

It's very convenient to take a hard stance on Cuba while completely ignoring the abuses of China. Those who support the embargo against Cuba should enact their own personal embargo against China and not shop at Walmart. To do both would be, well, hypocritical.

I didn't understand the heroin reference. I can see an addict understanding that heroin is destructive while shooting up. Cigars are not addictive and it makes absolutely no sense to support the embargo while smoking Cuban cigars. It's doesn't pass the sniff test.


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## krisko (Jul 28, 2007)

BADS197 said:


> We have an embargo ongoing with regards to Cuba because as a country, they have nothing we NEED.
> 
> You will never see an embargo of trade against Saudi Arabia for example.. no matter what they do. (oil)


Very good point! This embargo is politically expedient while not damaging the US economy. What it does to the Cuban economy? Well, that's really not the point is it.


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## krisko (Jul 28, 2007)

SeanGAR said:


> Wow ... that was just F*****G rude and uncalled for.


As I said, if Blueface doesn't not support the embargo while smoking CCs then I was mistaken and I apologized in my other post. Otherwise, how can I be the only one to find a cigar smoking supporter of the embargo to be a hypocrite? Is that really such a terrible word anyway. Have you seen what he's called me and others that have spoken out against the embargo in previous threads? He's been relentless in his attacks!


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## SeanGAR (Jul 9, 2004)

KevinG said:


> *
> Question:
> Did everyone that posted here actually READ my article?*


Of course I did. I did correct one error for you.

"If you go around saying Ghurka cigars are the best, or that you only smoke Ghurka cigars, you just outed yourself as someone that really knows nothing about cigars."

Good Cuban cigars are decidedly more complex than good NCs, and they are cheaper, so for most people who smoke a range of cigars, Cuban cigars are superior. That isn't to say a Guantanimera is better than a Padron 64 of course, but to say that somebody suggesting that Cuban cigars are better than NCs knows nothing about cigars is .. well .. strange.


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## krisko (Jul 28, 2007)

icehog3 said:


> What an ignorant statement, but I am glad you are so sure of yourself. Walk a mile in his shoes. Judge not, lest ye be judged.


It's merely an opinion. Why has his walking been harder than mine? Either stay in Cuba to work out your nation's issues or emigrate to America and embrace a new way of life. When an exile rants on and on about what America should about Cuba, it rings hollow. If it's so damned important to an exile, go back there and fix it.


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## krisko (Jul 28, 2007)

Blueface said:


> She believes, *and I agree rightfully so*, that the Cuban people are going to suffer regardless with that form of government. As such, why reward the government?


This is confirmation that you support the embargo and your statement on page 1 is confirmation that the majority of cigars you stock are of Cuban origin. This is hypocrisy defined! You speak out against commerce with Cuba and then engage in commerce with Cuba. Classic! You are a hypocrite.

But don't get so worked up over being called a hypocrite. It's not like I called you an a-hole or something!


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## krisko (Jul 28, 2007)

walleye said:


> I hate political arguments as passions often rise and tempers flair. I can understand the position of the Cuban exiles who support the embargo. Yet, we also must consider we have folks that are now American citizens from many countries, both now and 60-years ago, who were or are exiled from thier homelands. Look at the former Soviet Union, Eastern Block countries, China, Sudan, Burma, and on and on. Many folks I knew never returned to Russia or Poland to see family during the Cold War era. Some died never seeing thier homeland and famlies one last time. Yet, the United States did not impose embargos or in time lifted embargos on these nations. The ability to open Poland and other Eastern Block countries came from American support, trade and commerce. The walls came down because America acted on her values of capitalism and free trade. We owe the same oppurtunity to Cuba. Besides, if the embargo was such a great idea why did JFK hoard thousands of cuban cigars before he signed the Executive Order? He should have destroyed them in public protest. Or maybe the entire concept of trade embargos is a failure and he knew it.


Excellent points! Is it not logical to believe that what's happened in the eastern bloc and what is happening in China today would not work in Cuba? Why is Cuba special, other than the persuasive voting block in south Florida?

Man, I just noticed my RG is in a freefall! Why...did I screw a brother in a trade or fail to deliver on a PIF? I merely have a few opinions and stated a painful fact (Blueface is in FACT a hypocrite) and my RG gets hammered. I hope you guys are hammering Blueface's RG for being a hypocrit and calling me an a-hole. Now I plan to spend a few minutes bumping the RG of those who dinged mine.


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## Hermit (Aug 5, 2008)

I'll cop to my hypocrisy.
I think the embargo should be continued, *just not enforced*.


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## Blueface (May 28, 2005)

krisko said:


> You've relentlessly attacked those who are against the embargo so I'm left to assume you support it.
> 
> *Where have I "attacked" anything?
> Please show me the posts.
> ...


You clearly make assertions/assumptions that have no merit.
I challenge you to support your nonsense statements.


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## Blueface (May 28, 2005)

krisko said:


> It's merely an opinion. Why has his walking been harder than mine? Either stay in Cuba to work out your nation's issues or emigrate to America and embrace a new way of life. When an exile rants on and on about what America should about Cuba, it rings hollow. If it's so damned important to an exile, go back there and fix it.


:r:r:r

Boy, has your hatred come across in this response.


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## Blueface (May 28, 2005)

krisko said:


> This is confirmation that you support the embargo and your statement on page 1 is confirmation that the majority of cigars you stock are of Cuban origin. This is hypocrisy defined! You speak out against commerce with Cuba and then engage in commerce with Cuba. Classic! You are a hypocrite.
> 
> But don't get so worked up over being called a hypocrite. It's not like I called you an a-hole or something!


Are you that ignorant?
Did you not read my statements there?
Did you not understand that is my mother speaking?
SHE believes believes, and I agree rightfully so, that the Cuban people are going to suffer regardless with that form of government. As such, why reward the government?
That means that is why SHE supports the embargo and I can't help agree with her logic, ALTHOUGH my dad and I differ in opinion from her.
Can't you read that in plain English?

I guess I have to agree.
I am a hypocrite if you say so.
You are a moron if I say so.
Adios.


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## krisko (Jul 28, 2007)

Blueface said:


> :r:r:r
> 
> Boy, has your hatred come across in this response.


It's not hatred, again it's merely an opinion. My ancestors tried to effect change in their homeland as much as they could. When it became a moot point and dangerous (Lithuania, 1917), they emigrated to America and did their very best to assimilate and add something to this great country. They learned english as fast as they possibly could and build a life here. They didn't call themselves 'Lithuanian-Americans', they called themselves Americans.

It's a known fact that many Cuban Americans resist assimilation with this country. You almost get the feeling that they are in a holding pattern in Miami just waiting for communism to end before they go back to Cuba. That's why they aren't learning the language and in many cases not paying the taxes or becoming citizens. Yet I wonder how many would honestly go back if Cuba were free tomorrow.


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## krisko (Jul 28, 2007)

Blueface said:


> Are you that ignorant?
> Did you not read my statements there?
> Did you not understand that is my mother speaking?
> SHE believes believes, and I agree rightfully so, that the Cuban people are going to suffer regardless with that form of government. As such, why reward the government?
> ...


I'm confused....you agree with the notion that the embargo is useful but don't actually support the embargo? You seem to have a middle position on a simple yes/no question. If you do not support the embargo then I respectfully apologize for calling you a hypocrite. Smoke all the Cubans you can get your hands on.:ss

BTW, I'm glad you 'unignored' me from that earlier thread. I'm learning something about you, you're learning something about me. It's a little mor eengaging.



Blueface said:


> You are a moron if I say so.


I guess that's an improvement form 'a-hole'!


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## Blueface (May 28, 2005)

krisko said:


> It's not hatred, again it's merely an opinion. My ancestors tried to effect change in their homeland as much as they could. When it became a moot point and dangerous (Lithuania, 1917), they emigrated to America and did their very best to assimilate and add something to this great country. They learned english as fast as they possibly could and build a life here. They didn't call themselves 'Lithuanian-Americans', they called themselves Americans.


:r
You call it an opinion.
I call it hatred, yet another opinion.

I am a proud CUBAN AMERICAN.
I was born in Cuba and I have an American citizenship.
I am grateful to this land and will gladly give my life for it.
That doesn't mean I discard my roots as if non existent.

Better yet, we Cubans have something that appears to incite you.
We have political clout to impose laws.
Truly the American dream at work.
That doesn't seem to sit well.


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## Blueface (May 28, 2005)

krisko said:


> I'm confused....you agree with the notion that the embargo is useful but don't actually support the embargo? You seem to have a middle position on a simple yes/no question. If you do not support the embargo then I respectfully apologize for calling you a hypocrite. Smoke all the Cubans you can get your hands on.:ss
> 
> BTW, I'm glad you 'unignored' me from that earlier thread. I'm learning something about you, you're learning something about me. It's a little mor eengaging.


Where did I say useful?
I can't find that word anywhere?
Where is the lack of clarity?
What made you think I would not smoke all of the ones I could get my hands?:r
Why am I still typing?:r


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## hornitosmonster (Sep 5, 2006)

This got ugly. Guess I now see why political threads are not allowed..


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## icehog3 (Feb 20, 2005)

krisko said:


> I didn't call you a name, I merely pointed out a fact.





krisko said:


> (Blueface is in FACT a hypocrite)





krisko said:


> It's not hatred, again it's merely an opinion.


So are you stating fact, or opinion?

You seem to have a pretty thick skin, and steadfastness in defending your _opinions_...so why the whining about your ring gauge?


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## Blueface (May 28, 2005)

krisko said:


> It's a known fact that many Cuban Americans resist assimilation with this country. You almost get the feeling that they are in a holding pattern in Miami just waiting for communism to end before they go back to Cuba. That's why they aren't learning the language and in many cases not paying the taxes or becoming citizens. Yet I wonder how many would honestly go back if Cuba were free tomorrow.


Wow!!!
Just read this.
As much as I have no desire to visit this thread any longer I couldn't help but read this.

Amazing!!!
Truly amazing the erroneous and clearly biased opinions that illustrate a clear hatred or racism to me. How can I take this any other way?
Where did you get that info on Cubans not wanting to assimilate?
Do you know that of all Latin Americans, as a group in general, we have done very well for ourselves? Congressman, Senators, CEOs and a tremendous wealth in general?

Not learning the language?
Where did you get that from?
Did you go to college after only one year in America, still not knowing English well at that time and graduate Magna Cum Laud as my mother can proudly say she did? And later work as a English teacher for over 25 yrs?
Since this is a cigar forum, let's keep it to that subject and call Padron, Pepin, La Gloria Cubana, Padilla, Perdomo, Indian or any other of the many cigars you probably have smoked or do smoke and let's see if they can speak English to you.

Not paying taxes?
Where on Earth did you get this?
The average American citizen of this great land can only dream of earning in general what anyone in my family paid in taxes last year. Ask any of the Cubans I have listed above if they paid taxes of on their cigar profits.

I have no desire to exchange any further dialogue as there clearly is none.
You are totally left winged by all your past posts, you can't see someone else's opinions for what they are and you resort to ridiculous statements unsupported by any facts that are clearly discriminatory towards Cubans and I would venture to bet Hispanics in general.

I rambled in this thread not because it was political and went to crap as all do but instead because I posted about cigars and was drawn in, unprovoked, by your totally unwarranted post about me being a hypocrite, when there was absolutely no reason for it whatsover. It is quite evident that was done by design by you. Continue on your end if you wish but you and I will hopefully not cross paths on CS. If you choose to call me out again unprovoked, we will just do it all over again.

For anyone that wants to see what makes a thread go to chit, here is a recap:

My original and only post in this thread:

_*Have you had any of the recent tight, cheek snapping Cubans that some have gotten lately?

I think when it comes to this conversation of which is better it is all personal tastes.
I don't think anyone can say one is better than the other unless they agree to agree that it is THEIR opinion and theirs alone. Others are free to disagree.

Are Cubans different? Absolutely a unique flavor that can't be compared.
Are they the best? Well, if that is the flavor you like, then yes, they certainly are.
Frankly, I would trade any Cuban for a Padron Anniversary, any day.
My humidor consists primarily of Cubans.
The reason I don't have any or many Anniversaries is quite simple. They always go first.
However, that is just an opinion.

As for the Embargo, what I think or others think does not matter and not worth consuming much thought.*_

krisko's post that got me going:

_*Without a doubt, which is why the embargo is so laughable.

I've never seen a nationwide poll, but I suspect there are two groups of Americans that have great interest in the Cuban embargo, cigar smokers and cuban exiles. I find it interesting that Blueface supports the embargo, hammers anybody against it and then admits to a humidor dominated by cuban cigars. Blueface is clearly a hypocrite so it's not surprising he would support a hypocritical policy like the embargo.

And getting back to raralith's point, it's a little shortsighted to support the embargo so that CC prices stay low and quality stays high. There would be some bumps in the road regarding pricing and quality but it would all shake itself out over a year or so I would imagine.

I expect Obama will lift the embargo after reelection (if he wins) as certain residents of Florida won't be all that important anymore. I'd like to see him lift it very soon. He can do it under the veil of trying to stimulate the economy. There will undoubtedly be a boon to certain businesses as Cuba ramps up it's infrastructure to deal with hordes of American visitors.*_

Let's be clear about exactly what makes a thread go to chit.


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## Blueface (May 28, 2005)

Future FACTS for you krisko:

I figured I would address the "citizenship" comment with statistics for you.
Since this Cuban American speaks English, is a citizen and knows how to Google, it was a breeze to find this.
I hope you can see how ridiculous your comment was.

*Reflecting their unique welcome under U.S. immigration policy, about 60% of 
Cubans are U.S. citizens, more than double the rate for other Hispanics (26%) and 
higher than for non-Hispanic, foreign-born whites (56%). About nine out of 
every 10 Cubans who arrived before 1990 are U.S. citizens. Among those who 
arrived between 1980 and 1990, 60% are citizens and among those who arrived 
after 1990 18% are citizens. *

Here is the link with many more helpful FACTS about Cubans for future reference for you.

www.pewhispanic.org/files/factsheets/23.pdf

BTW, note the very first opening paragraph.

This statement also dismisses some of what you said:

*In the most recent survey, conducted in 2004, a majority of Cubans (56%) 
supported dialogue with the Cuban government, an increase from 40% when the 
first poll was conducted in 1991. While Cubans in general have low expectations 
about imminent change in Cuba, in 2004 more than one-in-four Cubans expressed 
optimism in this regard, compared with 16% in 2000. The number of Cubans who 
said they were very likely or somewhat likely to return to Cuba if there were a 
democratic government decreased from 41% in 2000 to 32% in 2004.*

So, I was darn close when I said 500,000 Cubans support the embargo.
If 56% support dialogue, that leaves 44% that don't.
44% of 1.5 million US Cubans leaves 660,000 that don't.
According to you, 660,000 people are single handedly responsible for the embargo?
Wow. What power!!!

Is there anything at all I can say you stated that is correct/accurate?
Hopefully you have now learned all can't be painted with one brush.


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## Blaylock-cl (Apr 28, 2006)

KevinG said:


> What do you think about the Cuban Embargo and Cuban cigars? Do you think the embargo should be lifted? If it is lifted, what do you think will happen in the American market with Cuban cigars?
> [/url]


There have been many discussions over the years about the embargo, and opinions, on topic, are welcome.

From this point forward please refrain from personal attacks, discussions of RG bumping, or an other rules violations...in other words, read the above questions from the OP and keep it on track.

Moving this to a more appropriate forum.


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## cbsmokin (Oct 10, 2007)

My apologies to the OP (not that it is his fault), but I think this turned into one of the worst threads I have read here at CS and I think it should be locked. 

I do not get any sense of brotherhood here and what could be healthy debate has turned into name calling and trash talking. It is too difficult to hash out any useful information at this point. 

:2


EDIT: Sorry, I was typing at the same time as the MOD and I agree with his statement.


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## krisko (Jul 28, 2007)

Blueface said:


> :r
> You call it an opinion.
> I call it hatred, yet another opinion.
> 
> ...


I don't hate Cuban people, I mostly love 'em! I was there for 24 years and the only thing I miss is the food and the women. I rarely agreed with the exile populace but I count more Cubans in my age group as friends than foes. But you are correct...I disagree when an entire populace resists assimilation and tries to enact laws in America to have an effect on their homeland. I'll say it again, if whatever goes on in Cuba is so damned important, you can effect more change from Cuba than you can from Miami. Leave my country out of it.



Blueface said:


> Where did I say useful?


You said you agreed with your mother (or somebody) that lifting the embargo would provide assisstance to the Cuban govt. To me the embargo isn't a grey issue, you either support it or you don't. Since you purchase CCs, that has to mean you don't support the embargo.


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## Blueface (May 28, 2005)

Blaylock said:


> From this point forward please refrain from personal attacks, discussions of RG bumping, or an other rules violations...in other words, read the above questions from the OP and keep it on track.
> .


My apologies to CS and the moderators.
I have none for krisko.
In all my years here, I never, ever resorted to name calling.
I should have been the better person but my day was perfect for this response to such unprovoked attack, supported by complete ignorance.
The rage was one I have never felt while on a forum.
He has an axe to bury for whatever reasons and hell if I will sit back and take it.
All this can be evidenced by his last post just moments ago.
He can't even read it all and see what a fool he continues to be.


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## krisko (Jul 28, 2007)

*?*



icehog3 said:


> So are you stating fact, or opinion?
> 
> You seem to have a pretty thick skin, and steadfastness in defending your _opinions_...so why the whining about your ring gauge?


I considered it a FACT that Blueface was a hypocrite. Now that he has come out against the embargo (I think), Blue face is NOT a hypocrite. I have no other opinion about Blueface. How can I...I've never met him.

I don't care about my RG but others are quite passionate about it. Passionate enough to ding it based solely upon opinion that has nothing to do with cigars. Incidentally I bumped the RG of those who dinged mine. It seems important to them to have a high RG so I figured 'why not?'.


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## JCK (Nov 9, 2006)

Blueface said:


> ....I knew the responses I would get but I figured I would ask anyhow.
> Mom is on one end of this embargo spectrum while dad is on the other.
> While mom supports it fully, she falls in that group of Cubans that support the embargo yet violate it daily basically.
> Mom sends goods, medicines, money to Cuba on a regular basis as does most of her family.
> She doesn't see that as a violation of the embargo....


Carlos, nor do I. The way I interpret the Embargo is put pressure on an oppressive Government, not the Oppressed people. I don't believe your mother's action is supporting the Embargo, even if others thought she were, Family is family regardless of political/physical boundaries.

My father's situation was similar yet constricted to another degree. Before the Korean War, my father migrated south with his sister. The rest of his family remained which is north of the 38th Parallel. He was 15 at the time.

Throughout the years, my father and aunt have tried to send relief to their family, but there was never any guarantee it went to the right place. Everything is filtered through the North Korean Gov't.

As an U.S. Citizen, my father was able to visit once in the 90's after 40 years of separation. He had the opportunity to see one of his brother and learned of the recent passing of his father.

Far worse than political pressure and trade embargos from other countries, South Koreans are not allowed to cross that boundary to locate lost family members because of that Communist Regime.

Embargo, no Embargo, it's all ugly when Social Systems differ so much it's the people that are affected the most.


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## krisko (Jul 28, 2007)

Blueface said:


> Wow!!!
> Just read this.
> As much as I have no desire to visit this thread any longer I couldn't help but read this.
> 
> ...


You've admitted previously that the Cuban community is Miami is trying to enact laws to effect change in Cuba. That to me is the definition of 'non-assimilation'...they don't care what's going on in America. America is merely a tool to many Cubans. And it's a fact that many Cubans outright refuse to learn the language.

I never said that Cubans haven't made a significant contribution to America. Just that many, in Miami in particular, have no interest in making a contribution. Again, not a fact but merely my opinion.


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## Blueface (May 28, 2005)

khubli said:


> Far worse than political pressure and trade embargos from other countries, South Koreans are not allowed to cross that boundary to locate lost family members because of that Communist Regime.
> 
> Embargo, no Embargo, it's all ugly when Social Systems differ so much it's the people that are affected the most.


Ji,
Your family feels that pain very same/similar pain.

I have always said that if effective, maintain it.
If not effective, what is to be gained?
As you will note by the stats I quoted, 56% (not 0% as someone else cited) of Cubans are pro some sort of dialogue which would possibly entail removal of the embargo.


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## Cigary (Oct 19, 2007)

Seriously, Krisko and Blueface,,,get a room! You two obviously have taken issue on this so use your PM's instead of trashing this out in public. The thread was just what our thoughts were about on this subject,,,not about putting gloves on and duking it out on here. I have my own thoughts on this but will not put it here because this subject is a bit tense for some follks,,,and for grown men to just go off on each other because of their opinion is nuttso,,,take a xanax or light a good cigar and relax. Remember why you joined this site and for us as a whole, why attack RG for an opinion? Now, if somebody tries to screw over somebody else, then I'm all for a negative RG bump, but for an opinion? So, if I don't like a certain cigar should I be wary of an attack to my RG? Good thing I don't give a rats a$$ and my opinion ( for what its worth ) is to 86 the RG as it just becomes a tool for some people like a hammer is to a carpenter.

Let's play nice from here.


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## Blueface (May 28, 2005)

krisko said:


> You've admitted previously that the Cuban community is Miami is trying to enact laws to effect change in Cuba. That to me is the definition of 'non-assimilation'...they don't care what's going on in America. America is merely a tool to many Cubans. And it's a fact that many Cubans outright refuse to learn the language.
> 
> I never said that Cubans haven't made a significant contribution to America. Just that many, in Miami in particular, have no interest in making a contribution. Again, not a fact but merely my opinion.


Suggestion:

Read a thread in its entirety before you reply.

Trust me on that one.
You may end up on the right side, standing up more often if you do that before you type away.
What you just said will be soon refuted at the pace you are reading.


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## krisko (Jul 28, 2007)

Blueface said:


> My apologies to CS and the moderators.
> I have none for krisko.
> In all my years here, I never, ever resorted to name calling.


I'm rather surprised that you won't apologize for calling me and others on this forum an a-hole and worse, solely because of an opinion. I stated you were a hypocrite based upon flawed information and I apologized when I realized you weren't. I don't normally toot my own horn but I am clearly the bigger man in this mess.

Cheers!:ss


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## Blueface (May 28, 2005)

Cigary said:


> Seriously, Krisko and Blueface,,,get a room! You two obviously have taken issue on this so use your PM's instead of trashing this out in public. The thread was just what our thoughts were about on this subject,,,not about putting gloves on and duking it out on here. I have my own thoughts on this but will not put it here because this subject is a bit tense for some follks,,,and for grown men to just go off on each other because of their opinion is nuttso,,,take a xanax or light a good cigar and relax. Remember why you joined this site and for us as a whole, why attack RG for an opinion? Now, if somebody tries to screw over somebody else, then I'm all for a negative RG bump, but for an opinion? So, if I don't like a certain cigar should I be wary of an attack to my RG? Good thing I don't give a rats a$$ and my opinion ( for what its worth ) is to 86 the RG as it just becomes a tool for some people like a hammer is to a carpenter.
> 
> Let's play nice from here.


Thanks for the advice.
Your opinion differs from mine.
Let's go back to that post that set me off and insert "Cigary" instead of "Blueface" and then let's talk.


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## RicoPuro (Sep 24, 2008)

Cigary said:


> Seriously, Krisko and Blueface,,,get a room! You two obviously have taken issue on this so use your PM's instead of trashing this out in public. The thread was just what our thoughts were about on this subject,,,not about putting gloves on and duking it out on here. I have my own thoughts on this but will not put it here because this subject is a bit tense for some follks,,,and for grown men to just go off on each other because of their opinion is nuttso,,,take a xanax or light a good cigar and relax. Remember why you joined this site and for us as a whole, why attack RG for an opinion? Now, if somebody tries to screw over somebody else, then I'm all for a negative RG bump, but for an opinion? So, if I don't like a certain cigar should I be wary of an attack to my RG? Good thing I don't give a rats a$$ and my opinion ( for what its worth ) is to 86 the RG as it just becomes a tool for some people like a hammer is to a carpenter.
> 
> Let's play nice from here.


:tpd:


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## Blueface (May 28, 2005)

krisko said:


> I'm rather surprised that you won't apologize for calling me and others on this forum an a-hole and worse, solely because of an opinion. I stated you were a hypocrite based upon flawed information and I apologized when I realized you weren't. I don't normally toot my own horn but I am clearly the bigger man in this mess.
> 
> Cheers!:ss


We will agree on that.
You are the bigger man.
Let's leave it at that.

BTW, I have no clue why you are bringing in other folks.
There was never any discussion other than the user "krisko".


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## JCK (Nov 9, 2006)

krisko said:


> I didn't understand the heroin reference. I can see an addict understanding that heroin is destructive while shooting up. *Cigars are not addictive *and it makes absolutely no sense to support the embargo while smoking Cuban cigars. It's doesn't pass the sniff test.


There is a strong camp of ex-smokers that would probably disagree with you. Nicotine is one of the most addictive substances.


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## Blueface (May 28, 2005)

Blueface said:


> Thanks for the advice.
> Your opinion differs from mine.
> Let's go back to that post that set me off and insert "Cigary" instead of "Blueface" and then let's talk.





RicoPuro said:


> :tpd:


Let's insert "RicoPuro" in there also instead of "Blueface".

Fear not folks, I am done here.

I couldn't give a rat's behind what anyone thinks about the embargo.
Talk all anyone wants as I never intended to discuss it.
However, attack me, my family, my culture, my country and expect to be bitten back.


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## krisko (Jul 28, 2007)

Blueface said:


> BTW, I have no clue why you are bringing in other folks.
> There was never any discussion other than the user "krisko".


If I had more time, I would research and name you 2 or 3 other members that you've called at least 'ignorant' and I suspect far worse. I know at least one of them hasn't returned to CS partly because of that, so I guess you are having some effect with your tirades.


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## icehog3 (Feb 20, 2005)

krisko said:


> I don't normally toot my own horn but I am clearly the bigger man in this mess.


Opinions may vary....and that's a fact.

Cheers!:ss


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## JCK (Nov 9, 2006)

krisko said:


> It's a known fact that many Cuban Americans resist assimilation with this country. You almost get the feeling that they are in a holding pattern in Miami just waiting for communism to end before they go back to Cuba. That's why they aren't learning the language and in many cases not paying the taxes or becoming citizens. Yet I wonder how many would honestly go back if Cuba were free tomorrow.


Do you just feel this way about the Cuban population or any emigrating culture to the United States that you may characterize in the same manner. I'm American, my parents emigrated to United States in the early 70's for a better life for me and my sister.

They both worked hard operating small diners for decades. My father paid his taxes, did everything to support this country. He became an American Citizen, yet he never grasped the language fully. My parents went back to South Korean in the late 80's for a new business opportunity. I could see the deterioration in their health from being a short order cook primarily, or covering any position their diners may have needed.

My father never grasped the English language, yet he was very well respected in our little Southern Community. Are you going to tell me that he was never American?


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## RicoPuro (Sep 24, 2008)

I don't think there is a need to insert my name or Cigary's name anywhere. We are not calling anybody anything. I am not here to take positions about this discussion or to condemn anyone. I just feel we have to maintain some degree of mutual respect and civility while trying to stick to the subject of discussion and avoid senseless personal attacks. 

If this is not going to happen, can a moderator please close the thread.


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## landhoney (May 17, 2008)

You guys are missing the point below:



Blueface said:


> Frankly, I would trade any Cuban for a Padron Anniversary, any day.


The man has Cohiba Sublimes (I think)! Sign me up Carlos. :r


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## JCK (Nov 9, 2006)

Yeah get Carlos started on Padron Anni's!!! That's a good hour conversation at least!


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## Blaylock-cl (Apr 28, 2006)

khubli said:


> Yeah get Carlos started on Padron Anni's!!! That's a good hour conversation at least!


I'd like to hear your "CliffNotes" version on these, Carlos?


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## JCK (Nov 9, 2006)

When you know everyone in Padron Operation in Miami on a first name basis, then I would say you were a fan. :]


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## Blueface (May 28, 2005)

landhoney said:


> You guys are missing the point below:
> 
> The man has Cohiba Sublimes (I think)! Sign me up Carlos. :r





khubli said:


> Yeah get Carlos started on Padron Anni's!!! That's a good hour conversation at least!





Blaylock said:


> I'd like to hear your "CliffNotes" version on these, Carlos?


You bastages!!! (Oops, I called you names)

I am trying to stay out of this thread for good but felt compelled to respond to friends.

Padrons suck!!!:r

Now, back on topic, if the embargo is lifted, my friends Jose, George, Orlando and Rudi will need to find a new job as their Padrons may no longer be wanted with all that Cuban cigar demand.:r


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## krisko (Jul 28, 2007)

khubli said:


> Do you just feel this way about the Cuban population or any emigrating culture to the United States that you may characterize in the same manner. I'm American, my parents emigrated to United States in the early 70's for a better life for me and my sister.
> 
> They both worked hard operating small diners for decades. My father paid his taxes, did everything to support this country. He became an American Citizen, yet he never grasped the language fully. My parents went back to South Korean in the late 80's for a new business opportunity. I could see the deterioration in their health from being a short order cook primarily, or covering any position their diners may have needed.


I don't have an axe to grind with Cubans or any others immigrant group. That would be pretty hypocritical as a direct descendant of a recent immigrant. My grandfather also operated diners and later motels for many years. He always planned to go back to Lithuania but became a citizen and grasped American culture in the meantime. Eventually he planted so many roots here that he came to see America as his homeland.


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## JCK (Nov 9, 2006)

Blueface said:


> You bastages!!! (Oops, I called you names)


That's alright.. I almost called you Padron Whore


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## KevinG (Apr 10, 2005)

This thread seems to have run it's course.

Any mod that feels it should be closed, please do so.

Thanks.


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## JCK (Nov 9, 2006)

Closed at request of OP.


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