# Highly rated tobaccos you can't smoke



## dmkerr (Oct 27, 2008)

I never fail to be interested in that miraculous thing called "personal taste" or "chemical balance". I find it almost as interesting as the part our personal biases play in our lives... but that's another post!

I've found that there are two tobaccos that the masses seem to love dearly that I absolutely cannot tolerate. One is a VaPer, and has the dubious distinction of being the only VaPer that I will never again put in a pipe bowl. The other is a strong burley/perique (BurPer), a genre that is hit or miss for me but there are plenty of hits. Indeed, some of my favorite tobaccos are BurPers, yet this one tastes like garbage to me. Both tobaccos have a huge following. 

The tobaccos are GLP's Fillmore (VaPer) and C&D's Old Joe Krantz (BurPer). My opinion of both definitely puts me in the minority... which is fine but, as I said, I find it interesting that I can be so put off by blends that many people love. Along with interesting, I find it consternating.

Anyone out there hate Escudo or FVF or Sobranie? I'm not talking about the "love it or hate it" blends like Erinmore or 1792, but blends where you seem to be the single person on the outside of a smokeshop peering through the window at the rest of the world slurping up those blends.


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## sounds7 (Mar 25, 2009)

I have a few that fall in to my " I don't see what the big deal is" category. I can still smoke them but they are far from my favorite. I think it may be my preference for stronger tasting tobaccos that does it. However I will qualify that remark that sometimes these tobacco's are more smokable than at other times whether I just need to ease back a bit or maybe the weather or my activities play in to it and change my palate etc. Never say never I guess. Two very surprising tobacco's that fall into my "ehh whatever" category are *"Penzance"* and *"Stonehaven" *both by one of my favorite tobacco lines Esoterica Tobacco. If Penzance were beer it would be a light brew for sure and as an "English" style tobacco I just cant grasp the concept. The crumble cake style is nice and it does have that going for it but when the rubber meets to road I am left wanting more from this tobacco.
Stonehaven on the other hand doesn't fall into any category for me and its flavor reminds me of corn sometimes especially if you smoke it in a cob. Really its not a joke! Plus I just dont get enough power from it in taste or vitamin N. If Stonehaven were food I would be looking for the salt shaker or some tobasco sauce because the flavor needs amped up a few steps IMO. Perhaps I should smoke it in a smaller or different shaped pipe. Everything affects these "finesse" blends.

Maybe these particular "Esoterica blends" derive much popularity from the fact that the flavors are subdued enough to attract the pipers crossing over from the drug store burley/aromatic world. Sort of a high end version of Frog Morton, but anyway I digress, I can smoke them, I do stock them in my cellar but their supplies will not need replenished anytime soon and I guess thats a good thing considering the present scarcity of both blends.

I will not be looking to trade off what I have so please no offers  because I do see value in as much as they can be smoked as a breakfast blend. Its just that they get so much hoopla and I am certainly in the minority as to my opinion on them so I have to mention them in this thread. Very nice topic dmkerr, I look forward to others chiming in on this matter.


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## GuitarDan (Nov 26, 2009)

Prince Albert and Half & Half may be much loved for generations, but I can't stand either one. I want to like them, but...


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## Zeabed (Apr 23, 2009)

I love St. Bruno, but I am physically allergic (literally) to a highly rated baccy with a large following that is for some reason frequently mentioned in the same breath as StB: Condor. I tried it once. I found it repulsive, made me sick, and haunted my palate for days to the point that I had to stop smoking any blend for days. Never again. :brick:


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## indigosmoke (Sep 1, 2009)

I would have to agree on the OJK. Nothing but fire and brimstone to me. An enjoyable blend for Satan perhaps but about as enjoyable as chewing a mouth full of red ants to me. Another one that did nothing for me was Squadron Leader...and I really wanted to like it because of the name and the tin art and the overall cool factor of smoking a blend that's been around for years and years. I guess this goes for all of the SG tobaccos I've tried. None really seemed that special to me and I really wanted to like them because of the history of the company. There's just something about a tobacco company that was in business when the Founding Fathers were walking the earth that seems special to me. And to be honest even the exalted FVF falls flat compared to other VAs (such as HOTW) in my book. Anyway, great thread D.


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## FriarWhently (May 3, 2010)

I guess I'm the second heretic. I'm a Va guy, and FVF just doesn't do it for me. I find it flavorless and it just bites my face off. If I remember, I believe Marlin Flake gave me the same impression.



Don't ban me! *runs away*


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## dmkerr (Oct 27, 2008)

FVF??? Penzance???? Stonehaven, for the love of Pete???????

You guys have surpassed my wildest expectations! Thanks! lol. This is more fun than I thought! 

Sounds7 re: the subdued nature of flavors in Stonehaven, etc - this is probably Stonehaven's greatest achievement (in my book - failure in yours). I smoke tobaccos of various strengths at different times. There is no one tobacco I would want to smoke all day. In my humble opinion, the tobacco that isn't overpowering is the one that shows off the most nuances and generally has the most complexity.

Now, complexity is like nicotine content - some folks live and die by it and some could care less. Sometimes I don't care. There are tobaccos that just taste good. And everybody gets to smoke what they enjoy and leave the rest. So your assessment is the same as mine - neither right nor wrong, except for us personally.

Good stuff, guys!


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## dmkerr (Oct 27, 2008)

FriarWhently said:


> I guess I'm the second heretic. I'm a Va guy, and FVF just doesn't do it for me. I find it flavorless and it just bites my face off. If I remember, I believe Marlin Flake gave me the same impression.
> 
> Don't ban me! *runs away*


That FVF bites your face off is further evidence of the assertion that more often than not tongue bite is a product of the chemical balance between smoker and tobacco, and not the fault of the tobacco or the smoker.

My favorite tongue bite story is that there is a tobacco that bites my tongue before I even light it! All I need to do is fill my bowl and hold the bit in my teeth for a minute or so and breathe normally. Strange, but true.

So... my old adage, which you already obviously live by, is don't smoke whatever bites!


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## Spectabalis (May 17, 2010)

I have to agree with Friarwhently. When I took to my pipes again after a long break I read a lot of reviews and chose FVF as a "must have", mainly because of other people's opinions. However it does nothing at all for me and I find it quite tasteless and left wondering what all the fuss was about.
Great thread as I thought it was only me.


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## mugwump (Jun 7, 2007)

I can usually find something to like in just about any tobacco but the one blend that I really want to like but just can't is C&D's Epiphany. It might not be as highly rated as some of the other blends mentioned but in its category of American-style Englishes it's usually highly recommended. I keep revisiting it after a bit of further aging and it still fails to click for me.


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## Nicolas J. Pug (Apr 21, 2009)

I like Escudo and SJF, but Anniversary Kake didn't work for me. It tasted heavy on burley to me, where I was expecting a VaPer. I have wondered if they put the right stuff in the bag.


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## sounds7 (Mar 25, 2009)

dmkerr said:


> FVF??? Penzance???? Stonehaven, for the love of Pete???????
> 
> You guys have surpassed my wildest expectations! Thanks! lol. This is more fun than I thought!
> 
> ...


You know thats probably one of the biggest set backs to smoking stronger tobaccos on a regular basis. Its just hard to appreciate subtlety anymore as the buds just aren't as quick these days. Thats why I said never say never and why I am not trading it away. These things have a way of growing on me in the long run. It was that way with "Royal Yacht" , At first I hated it, and now that I can hardly get my hands on it anymore I am an addict. Go figure.


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## Ben.Reilly (Jun 21, 2010)

I also have issues with high nicotine tobaccos. If I smoke them day after day, I get a nasty stomach ache and headache. For the most part, I stick to aromatic, less nicotine blends. Boswell has some great ones.


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## MarkC (Jul 4, 2009)

sounds7 said:


> Two very surprising tobacco's that fall into my "ehh whatever" category are *"Penzance"* and *"Stonehaven" *both by one of my favorite tobacco lines Esoterica Tobacco. If Penzance were beer it would be a light brew for sure and as an "English" style tobacco I just cant grasp the concept. The crumble cake style is nice and it does have that going for it but when the rubber meets to road I am left wanting more from this tobacco.
> Stonehaven on the other hand doesn't fall into any category for me and its flavor reminds me of corn sometimes especially if you smoke it in a cob. Really its not a joke! Plus I just dont get enough power from it in taste or vitamin N. If Stonehaven were food I would be looking for the salt shaker or some tobasco sauce because the flavor needs amped up a few steps IMO. Perhaps I should smoke it in a smaller or different shaped pipe. Everything affects these "finesse" blends.


I'm stunned. I agree completely about Penzance; I can not see what the big deal is. But your description of Stonehaven takes me by surprise. 'Subdued' is the last word I'd use to describe this one. Flavor-wise, it's probably the strongest blend I smoke, and the nicotine regularly kicks my ass if I'm not careful.

My choice for this category would be Anniversary Kake. My remaining 5 oz jar is, I'm pretty sure, a lifetime supply. Completely bland.


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## sounds7 (Mar 25, 2009)

MarkC said:


> I'm stunned. I agree completely about Penzance; I can not see what the big deal is. But your description of Stonehaven takes me by surprise. 'Subdued' is the last word I'd use to describe this one. Flavor-wise, it's probably the strongest blend I smoke, and the nicotine regularly kicks my ass if I'm not careful.
> 
> My choice for this category would be Anniversary Kake. My remaining 5 oz jar is, I'm pretty sure, a lifetime supply. Completely bland.


I guess the palate is a curious thing and it depends on what else you smoke when making comparisons when talking about strength. Compare one of my regulars Dunhill Royal Yacht to Stonehaven and you get my point. Perhaps we will just split the difference and call it medium .

Also I am happy to say I have only one Anniversary kake in my cellar and I am thinking more and more of dumping it in a trade before I ever open it.


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## Jack Straw (Nov 20, 2008)

When I first started pipe smoking the name St. James Woods kept popping up in my searches for VAPers. I ordered a tin, and was delighted when I noticed the date stamp was 4 years old! Lucky me! Except, I found it to be completely bland. Not what I was expecting at all. So, I sampled it to a few people and the dregs are still sitting in the tin on my shelf.


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## dmkerr (Oct 27, 2008)

sounds7 said:


> It was that way with "Royal Yacht" , At first I hated it, and now that I can hardly get my hands on it anymore I am an addict. Go figure.


I do a lot of tobacco trading. If I come across any, you'll be the first person I contact. One of the worst realizations is that a favorite tobacco is no longer available. I stopped smoking for several years and when I returned, there was no more Sobranie, or Sullivan & Powell's, or ACP Premier Cru or Caledonian, or old Rattrays - the list goes on. Sure, there are a lot of readily available great tobaccos but....


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## sounds7 (Mar 25, 2009)

dmkerr said:


> I do a lot of tobacco trading. If I come across any, you'll be the first person I contact. One of the worst realizations is that a favorite tobacco is no longer available. I stopped smoking for several years and when I returned, there was no more Sobranie, or Sullivan & Powell's, or ACP Premier Cru or Caledonian, or old Rattrays - the list goes on. Sure, there are a lot of readily available great tobaccos but....


Thanks dmkerr, Yeah I am a Sobranie guy as well as most here already know from the  "homemade Balkan Sobranie thread". Sure would like to see that one make a come back. Right now I dream that some old tobacco maker like Samuel Gawith could somehow acquire the rights to Balkan Sobranie as well as the Dunhill recipes and bring it back to its former glory. Yeah a dream I wished I didnt have to wake up from.


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## mike t (Oct 21, 2008)

the only tobaccos i smoke are luxury bullseye and twist flake along with cube cut by stokkebye and balkan supreme. so everything else included in the category you are asking is in the can't smoke category
mike


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## FriarWhently (May 3, 2010)

Jack Straw said:


> When I first started pipe smoking the name St. James Woods kept popping up in my searches for VAPers. I ordered a tin, and was delighted when I noticed the date stamp was 4 years old! Lucky me! Except, I found it to be completely bland. Not what I was expecting at all. So, I sampled it to a few people and the dregs are still sitting in the tin on my shelf.


I dig that stuff. If you don't want the rest, send it to me!


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## Mad Hatter (Apr 8, 2007)

Anything by Peterson


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## Jack Straw (Nov 20, 2008)

FriarWhently said:


> I dig that stuff. If you don't want the rest, send it to me!


PM me your address and it's yours! Only like 3-4 bowls left though.


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## Davetopay (Jan 19, 2008)

I have had problems from the get go with Hamborger Veermaster. It's not even on my revisit and rerate list. 

The killer for me as of late is PS Cube Cut. It seems to have just become a pile of bite for me in recent months.:boink:


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## laloin (Jun 29, 2010)

mike t said:


> the only tobaccos i smoke are luxury bullseye and twist flake along with cube cut by stokkebye and balkan supreme. so everything else included in the category you are asking is in the can't smoke category
> mike


wow mike we have the same taste for PS, I tried the twist flake the other day and fell in love, it's a straight va, now the lux bulleyes with the va/per that can sometimes leave a pepper taste in my mouth, but that just the per hehehhe
troy


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## juni (Oct 16, 2009)

Squadron Leader, and this is because of the latakia. u


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## Zeabed (Apr 23, 2009)

laloin said:


> wow mike we have the same taste for PS, I tried the twist flake the other day and fell in love, it's a straight va, now the lux bulleyes with the va/per that can sometimes leave a pepper taste in my mouth, but that just the per hehehhe
> troy


Straight virginia? I thought it was a VaPer. :hmm:


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## Contrabass Bry (May 3, 2010)

laloin said:


> wow mike we have the same taste for PS, I tried the twist flake the other day and fell in love, it's a straight va, now the lux bulleyes with the va/per that can sometimes leave a pepper taste in my mouth, but that just the per hehehhe
> troy


This should make sense.

...reminds me to pick up some LTF.


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## RJpuffs (Jan 27, 2008)

Zeabed said:


> Straight virginia? I thought it was a VaPer. :hmm:


PS Luxury Twist Flake (the square coins) are VA with a "light" topping.

PS Luxury Bullseye Flake is a VA/Cavendish/Perique blend.

PS Luxury Navy Flake is a classic VaPer, really good stuff too.

On topic - PS Bullseye I don't really care for. The cavendish dots take away the flavor of the Va and Perique, IMHO. If I wanted cavendish, I'd smoke a cavendish. :drama:


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## Diodon nepheligina (Nov 5, 2009)

I really want to like LTF. Really, I do. It looks so mezzzzmerizzzing and delicious and swirly in its square flake form. So far, however, every time I load a bowl, it tastes and smells like I'm smoking play-doh. I keep putting it away and trying it a few weeks later but have yet to get a different result. Maybe its the topping.:dunno:


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## commonsenseman (Apr 18, 2008)

-Just about everything Macbaren, the jury is still out on Navy Flake though.
-Union Square
-McC 2015
-H&H Marble Kake
-H&H Classic Burley Kake
-LBF
-Solani 660 (after ABF I was expecting it to be amazing, it's not bad, just not great)


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## Jack Straw (Nov 20, 2008)

commonsenseman said:


> -H&H Marble Kake


I thought this stuff was super bland, like smoking grits or cardboard.


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## Diodon nepheligina (Nov 5, 2009)

commonsenseman said:


> -Just about everything Macbaren, the jury is still out on Navy Flake though.
> -Union Square
> -McC 2015
> -H&H Marble Kake
> ...


Gotta agree with you on Marble Kake and McC 2015. Both of those don't do much of anything for me.

Oh yeah, and MacBaren Golden Extra and Scottish Mixture fall into this category for me too (I kinda like Symphony), although I don't know how "highly rated" they are...


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## Hermit (Aug 5, 2008)

commonsenseman said:


> -Just about everything Macbaren, the jury is still out on Navy Flake though.
> -Union Square
> -McC 2015
> -H&H Marble Kake
> ...


Union Square?
You've ruined yer palate with 1792. oke:


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## commonsenseman (Apr 18, 2008)

Does anybody like Marble Kake? I have an ounce jarred up & I'm hoping it'll get better.

I was waiting for a 1792 comment.......maybe I've been _refining_ my palate with 1792?


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## dmkerr (Oct 27, 2008)

commonsenseman said:


> I was waiting for a 1792 comment.......maybe I've been _refining_ my palate with 1792?


I didn't include 1792 in my list because it has such a "love/hate" following. I'm one of the few that's ambivalent about it. I feel the same about Union Square - I could smoke it if I had to, but then I'd wonder why I bothered.

But you guys have listed several blends I love on your "can't smoke" lists. I don't think there's as much refining of the palate as there is the simple act of feeding it what it likes.


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## indigosmoke (Sep 1, 2009)

commonsenseman said:


> H&H Classic Burley Kake


I think the problem for some is based on the name it seems like it would be a straight burley but it's definitely an aromatic in my book. I actually like it because I like the unique flavor and to me it is the one aro that actually has a complete synchronicity of pouch aroma, taste, and room note. But I can't see how lovers of pure tobacco flavor would enjoy this one.


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## dmkerr (Oct 27, 2008)

indigosmoke said:


> I actually like it because I like the unique flavor and to me it is the one aro that actually has a complete synchronicity of pouch aroma, taste, and room note.


My thoughts exactly. What I most dislike about aromatics is that they tend to be all about room note and softness on the palate and they leave too much flavor out. I've always wished for an aromatic that had a high dose of taste. This is the one.


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## Hermit (Aug 5, 2008)

indigosmoke said:


> I think the problem for some is based on the name it seems like it would be a *straight burley* but it's definitely an aromatic in my book.


That's what I thought when I ordered some.
Luckily I only bought 2oz., 'cause I only smoked two bowls.
Didn't like it.


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## Requiem (Dec 6, 2008)

I'm not a perique fan but I enjoy it in english blenda like Artisan's and Nightcap (damn good!). However, St James flake makes me sneeze and scratch my nose and is just not pleasant.

I love my straight VA's and, like some other members, FVF is not on my top 5...


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## commonsenseman (Apr 18, 2008)

1792 is a love/hate blend, I know because I love it. It's hard to see how someone could hate something that I love so much. Oh well, more for me and all that. It's one of those blends you have to try once, just to see.

As for Classic Burley Kake, you're right on John. Perhaps I was hoping it'd be more like ABF, probably foolish in retrospect. Oh well, I'll try it again someday & see if it does anything for me.


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## nothingclever (Aug 1, 2008)

This may be punishable by death...but I tried Frog Morton Across the Pond based on everyone saying it was so good...Couldnt do more than a couple bowls. Was terrible to me. Felt like I was smoking a camp fire.


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## Spectabalis (May 17, 2010)

Here we go with the personal preferences thing again. My tobacconist was kind enough to send me a sample of 1792. All I can say is no, not for me. The taste defies description, especially the Tonquin, and I found it far too strong as the only things that seemed to be missing were psycodelic colours. It also gave me a stinking headache!!


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## dmkerr (Oct 27, 2008)

nothingclever said:


> This may be punishable by death...but I tried Frog Morton Across the Pond based on everyone saying it was so good...Couldnt do more than a couple bowls. Was terrible to me. Felt like I was smoking a camp fire.


If it is, I'll be right next to you on the gallows. I didn't "hate" it but it tasted weird to me and I couldn't finish the tin. I've salted it away for aging and will try it again some day when I'm feeling brave.

Of all the Frogs, On The Town is the only one I found repeatable.


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## Spectabalis (May 17, 2010)

dmkerr said:


> If it is, I'll be right next to you on the gallows. I didn't "hate" it but it tasted weird to me and I couldn't finish the tin. I've salted it away for aging and will try it again some day when I'm feeling brave.
> 
> Of all the Frogs, On The Town is the only one I found repeatable.


Frog Morton, in fact ALL McClelland tobaccos are unavailable over here. Oh how we suffer.:tsk:


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## RJpuffs (Jan 27, 2008)

Spectabalis said:


> Frog Morton, in fact ALL McClelland tobaccos are unavailable over here. Oh how we suffer.:tsk:


Ah, but you have Samuel Gawith stuff over yonder. Oh how we suffer on this end without it :scared:


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## FriarWhently (May 3, 2010)

nothingclever said:


> Felt like I was smoking a camp fire.


This is pretty much the conclusion I reach every time I smoke any English blend.


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## sounds7 (Mar 25, 2009)

FriarWhently said:


> This is pretty much the conclusion I reach every time I smoke any English blend.


English blends fall into two Latakia camps.

G. L. Pease Tobaccos - Articles & Essays

The one that has the camp fire taste has Cyprian Latakia in it. The more Cyprian the more campfire taste. Syrian has a different leather type taste/smell to it. Some say it has a wine taste .


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