# Dunhill Question



## kheffelf (Jul 31, 2006)

Are dunhill pipes really worth the money. I am thinking about picking up my first expensive pipe in the next couple of months and was wondering if they are worth the price or not. If not a dunhill what else would you guys recommend for the under 300 dollar option. I have found an ascorti that I like for about 160. So, let the opinions come. Thanks for the help guys.p


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## JPH (Jun 30, 2006)

Carve you own....$20 yet priceless


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## omowasu (Aug 9, 2006)

Ill go in and say that the Dunhill Shell Briar is well worth the money - yes, they are upwards of 300.00, but I have heard from a good resource that they smoke like an absolute dream. And, if you ever tire of the pipe and want to sell it on eBay, you will get 70-80% of the new price for a used shell briar. They have inherent collectable value to many a pipe smoker.

Hope this helps! p p p


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## dayplanner (Dec 11, 1997)

I think they are great puffers! p


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## EnyafanJT (Sep 7, 2005)

dunhill pipes are very light , extremely well made and from the best briar that can be obtained. but no they are not worth the money IN MY OPINION. i had one and it made me sick that i could have bought 2 or 3 really good pipes like winslow or ardor or cavicchi. if you want a dunhill they are great pipes. i just hope that newer smokers do not feel the need to get really expensive pipes or rare pipe tobacco because it simply is not needed unless that is the route you want to go. just like cigars everyone has what they can afford or what they enjoy. i myself have everything from dr. grabow seconds to really nice ardor venere fantasy. sorry if i skipped off topic a bit.


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## Bruce (Dec 31, 1999)

To be honest with you, I got a little caught up in the Dunhill frenzy when I first started. But as I did a bit more research, I found out that there were many pipes that are MORE highly regarded than Dunhills, and after purchasing a few, I would have to agree. For $300 bucks or less you can score an Estate Barling, Comoy, Charatan, and a few others that really give Dunhill a run for the money (if not passing them) in quality, grain, workmanship, and smoking qualities. I have a few Dunhills, but I find myself reaching for my old Charatans instead. I just got in a few old Comoys and Barlings that are stunning! They make my Dunhills look a bit pale in comparason.

All of this is JMHO of course, and I still do like my Dunhills, but if I were to start out again, I would begin by concentrating on the classic Estate pipes that I mentioned above.

A lot of these old classics used Algerian Briar, considered by many to the the gold standard in briar. Algerian Briar is rarely found in new pipes these days. I also have some very expensive freehands and Italian pipes, but my old and fairly inexpensive classics are better smokers.

Check out sites like "The Smoker", "Fine Pipes", "The Pipe Rack", "Vintage Briars", and "Briar Blues".


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## muziq (Mar 14, 2005)

A Dunhill Amberroot Group 4 is one of three pipes I own, and I go back and forth between holding it in highest esteem versus a lovely Mark Tinsky. The Dunhill smokes like a dream, is light, and has an elegant line to it. My only complaint about it is the stem--it's vulcanite, meaning it requires a little more work to keep clean than the lucite stem on the Tinsky. And that's a very minor ding for the Dunhill...


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## Nooner (Feb 22, 2005)

Dollar for Dollar there are far better pipes than Dunhills, some of them have already been mentioned - Cavicchi is one of them, Castello is the Italian Dunhill, Tinskey and a few other North American carvers make a great pipe from great briar at a great price as well.

Dunhill does provide a very satisfying cachet though... so in that regard they are worth a premium, and if you ever get a new ne, the presentation is spectacular!

If I were looking to blow $300 and already had my eye on a $160 Ascorti, I'd probably snag the Ascorti and look for somethign good on ebay to blow the rest on.

Good Luck!


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## kheffelf (Jul 31, 2006)

Thanks everyone for the help, I will keep my eyes open for some good deals, but the first thing is saving the money for those pipes.


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## croatan (Mar 23, 2005)

I have a few and love them. I don't have any Barling, Comoy, or Charatan pipes to compare them to, though. I think I may have to change that situation shortly.


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## IHT (Dec 27, 2003)

dunhills too expensive?


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## kheffelf (Jul 31, 2006)

IHT said:


> dunhills too expensive?


Thanks for that link, sometimes I forget to search, very interesting things brought up there. I would just like to have one expensive pipe in my collection of pipes, name really doesn't matter but is also kind of thing to see if they are that much better, in the pipe world you will never know until you try one, you really can't go out and test a pipe first before you buy, which is the great things about cigars, buy a single to see if the box is worth it.


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## CigarGal (Jun 2, 2006)

I picked up a beautiful slightly used dunhill on ebay for $170. If you are patient and watch these guys on ebay you can sometimes pick up a bargain.


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## LSU Tiger (Jun 9, 2006)

You can get an Upshall for less than a Dunhill, and it will smoke GREAT! Check out "jamesupshallpipeco" on eBay. I got a beautiful rusticated Canadian in about a group 6 size for a tad over a "C" note.p


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## caskwith (Apr 10, 2006)

Get a Hardcastle, they are made by Dunhill and are basically seconds, the only thing wrong with them though is that they have small fills on the bowl. I have a Hardcastle Marquis which is basically a dunhil pot panel pipe but it has a small fill, therefore its not considered good enough to be a dunhill.

Dunhill:









My Hardcastle:

http://www.imagehosting.com


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## CigarGal (Jun 2, 2006)

Nice looking pipe, Chris. I don't think I have seen the name before. Are they available in the states?


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## caskwith (Apr 10, 2006)

CigarGal said:


> Nice looking pipe, Chris. I don't think I have seen the name before. Are they available in the states?


They sure are, just search for them on google, you will find plenty of sites selling them new for about $60-$120 or get on ebay and find yourself a bargain.


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## tedski (Oct 1, 2004)

I've never been a Dunhill pipe fan. Their shapes and finishes are pretty standard and uninspired and, IMO, you pay a big premium for that white dot. However, if you really are set on getting one I second the suggestion of watching Ebay for bargains.


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## kheffelf (Jul 31, 2006)

caskwith said:


> They sure are, just search for them on google, you will find plenty of sites selling them new for about $60-$120 or get on ebay and find yourself a bargain.


Thanks for heads up, I will keep my eyes out for them, your hardcastle looks great thanks for the pics.


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## Hydrated (Aug 9, 2006)

kheffelf said:


> your hardcastle looks great thanks for the pics.


He probably hears that a lot.


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## caskwith (Apr 10, 2006)

Hydrated said:


> He probably hears that a lot.


Well i dont like to brag


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## F. Prefect (Jan 14, 2007)

kheffelf said:


> Are dunhill pipes really worth the money. I am thinking about picking up my first expensive pipe in the next couple of months and was wondering if they are worth the price or not. If not a dunhill what else would you guys recommend for the under 300 dollar option. I have found an ascorti that I like for about 160. So, let the opinions come. Thanks for the help guys.p


Whichever pipe you finally decide upon, there is little doubt at least 25% of the cost is in the name. But to achieve such a high status takes years of producing fine pipes, so I shall not complain.

Can't help you with the Ascoti, but I own 2 Dunhills, a bent Chestnut 5213 and a bent Cumberland 4133 with the Lucite stem. Both are excellent smokers, and were from the beginning. The only problem I have experienced is with the fit between the tenon and the shank on the Cumberland has loosened over a period of about a year. Running a thumb or index finger along the "joint" I have noticed the the shank has expanded to a very small degree, thus probably creating the loose fit. It's not visable and was easily tightened with a light coating of clear fingernail polish on the tenon. I have no explanation for the expansion as I always allow any pipe to cool before cleaning. But by and large I am pleased with both.p

My next foray into the higher priced pipe market with probably be a Butz-Choquin:dr as I currently own 3 in the 50.00 to 100.00 range and all 3 are among my favorites.

F. Prefect


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## JohnnyFlake (May 31, 2006)

kheffelf said:


> Are dunhill pipes really worth the money. I am thinking about picking up my first expensive pipe in the next couple of months and was wondering if they are worth the price or not. If not a dunhill what else would you guys recommend for the under 300 dollar option. I have found an ascorti that I like for about 160. So, let the opinions come. Thanks for the help guys.p


I have owned and sold over 20 Dunhill Pipes, and to answer your question simply, the answer is NO!

The only Dunhills, IMHO, worth the money are Shell Briars, pre 1980. The ones from the 1950s, 60s & 70s are the very best, If your patient, you find can them in pre smoked, yet in excellent condition, on eBay. They can be had in the $125 to $175 range most of the time.

A few of the very best pipes you can buy, for the money are: Ascorti, Radice, Castello & Cavicchi. They are all great smokers and most styles can be had for much less than $300, especially in the Caviccihi Line of pipes.

Like I said, eBay is a good source, however, my personal favorite place to buy pipes is The Pipe Rack. They offer a great selection of pipes and exceptional service. Here is a link: http://thepiperack.com/

Johnny


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## Nooner (Feb 22, 2005)

JohnnyFlake said:


> I have owned and sold over 20 Dunhill Pipes, and to answer your question simply, the answer is NO!
> 
> The only Dunhills, IMHO, worth the money are Shell Briars, pre 1980. The ones from the 1950s, 60s & 70s are the very best, If your patient, you find can them in pre smoked, yet in excellent condition, on eBay. They can be had in the $125 to $175 range most of the time.
> 
> ...


'60s Root Briars are my favorites.


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## F. Prefect (Jan 14, 2007)

Nooner said:


> '60s Root Briars are my favorites.


I've often wondered as companies of long standing with reputations such as that of Dunhill that periodically undergo changes in the top echelon of management, don't also undergo chances in the manufacturing processes AND product quality as well, as the demand for their product and their competitor's, slowly chance with time?:2 It would almost seem to be unavoidable.

It appears from several of the posts that possibly Dunhill may have produced a superior product in the past than it is producing today. From my standpoint, the newer of my 2 Dunhills(Cumberland) was manufactured in 1997 and had the minor defect mentioned in my earlier post.

I freely admit a major consideration in my decision to purchase the pipes(Estates) was the Dunhill name, but I have absolutely no plans to add more in the foreseeable future.

F. Prefect


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## JohnnyFlake (May 31, 2006)

F. Prefect said:


> I've often wondered as companies of long standing with reputations such as that of Dunhill that periodically undergo changes in the top echelon of management, don't also undergo chances in the manufacturing processes AND product quality as well, as the demand for their product and their competitor's, slowly chance with time?:2 It would almost seem to be unavoidable.
> 
> It appears from several of the posts that possibly Dunhill may have produced a superior product in the past than it is producing today. From my standpoint, the newer of my 2 Dunhills(Cumberland) was manufactured in 1997 and had the minor defect mentioned in my earlier post.
> 
> ...


IMHO, you are correct in your observations! Many things change as time goes on, however, two very distinct things happened with Dunhill, as I understand it. One, their supply of super high grade briar was virtually depleated as they entered the 80s. Two, the most problematic, IMO, is that they started to use machines to complete much of the work on their pipes. Starting in the early 80s, Dunhills were no longer 100% Hand Made, and that is true to this day. In fact, if my information is correct Dunhill Pipes, with the possible exception of a few very special offerings are about 60% machine made.

Johnny


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## F. Prefect (Jan 14, 2007)

JohnnyFlake said:


> IMHO, you are correct in your observations! Many things change as time goes on, however, two very distinct things happened with Dunhill, as I understand it. One, their supply of super high grade briar was virtually depleated as they entered the 80s. Two, the most problematic, IMO, is that they started to use machines to complete much of the work on their pipes. Starting in the early 80s, Dunhills were no longer 100% Hand Made, and that is true to this day. In fact, if my information is correct Dunhill Pipes, with the possible exception of a few very special offerings are about 60% machine made.
> 
> Johnny


Just my opinion, but of the 2, I think the lack of quality briar that can be easily harvested would be the most likely to produce pipes that are of a lower quality.:2 Whether they have actually changed their established standards for briar quality is of course, at least for me, quite impossible to determine.

Maybe someone could chime in on this, but after a burl is removed from the upper roots of the White Heather tree, (after 30 years?) will it grow back in several years, or in the worst case, kill the tree?

I'm jumping back and forth here, but is there something a human being working by hand with tools used for many years can do that will produce a better product than a computerized robotic manchine can produce? It would seem that the only human input needed would be for quality control by removing briars as defects show up during the 60% of actual work done by the machine? We seemed to have eleminated many of the defects found in automobles made during the 1970's for example by turning almost all of the manufacturing over to robots.

But we're talkin' pipes here and even discussing machines and robots is nothing short of blastphemy!:sb But IMHO, the days of the quality handmade briar being made by large companies such as Dunhill are nearly at their end. That market will become dominated by individuals or small shops turning out only a few pipes per year. I don't know if I like the idea all that much as now I'm going to have to keep track of hundreds of small manufacturers that may one year be "hot", and 5 years later show up on eBay for 25.00. Ah :BS , there are just some things that should be exempt from change.

F. Prefect


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## JohnnyFlake (May 31, 2006)

F. Prefect said:


> Just my opinion, but of the 2, I think the lack of quality briar that can be easily harvested would be the most likely to produce pipes that are of a lower quality.:2 Whether they have actually changed their established standards for briar quality is of course, at least for me, quite impossible to determine.
> 
> Maybe someone could chime in on this, but after a burl is removed from the upper roots of the White Heather tree, (after 30 years?) will it grow back in several years, or in the worst case, kill the tree?
> 
> ...


In response to your Rant, for lack of a better description, there are two things to keep in mind. I cannot explain in sientific jargon, how they apply but they do, at least IMHO! First, even after 30 or more years of growth, after briar is harvested, the finer pieces, after being cut into sections, are laid to rest and sometimes in specific environments, for 10, 20, 30 and even more additional years, before they are finally used. Second, there somethings a machine cannot do! There is no subsitiute for certain things that are hand made. A machine will never match it, because no two handmade pipes or whatever, that is handmade, are ever exactly the same. There are subtle differences in the size and shape of the bowl, the tobacco chamber and so on, that the maker creates in each piece, that is based on his/her's feelings about that specific piece of briar. A machine makes every thing exactly the same. I really cannot explain what I mean better than that. I hope it makes some sense!

Johnny

Johnny


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## F. Prefect (Jan 14, 2007)

JohnnyFlake said:


> In response to your Rant, for lack of a better description, there are two things to keep in mind. I cannot explain in sientific jargon, how they apply but they do, at least IMHO! First, even after 30 or more years of growth, after briar is harvested, the finer pieces, after being cut into sections, are laid to rest and sometimes in specific environments, for 10, 20, 30 and even more additional years, before they are finally used. Second, there somethings a machine cannot do! There is no subsitiute for certain things that are hand made. A machine will never match it, because no two handmade pipes or whatever, that is handmade, are ever exactly the same. There are subtle differences in the size and shape of the bowl, the tobacco chamber and so on, that the maker creates in each piece, that is based on his/her's feelings about that specific piece of briar. A machine makes every thing exactly the same. I really cannot explain what I mean better than that. I hope it makes some sense!
> 
> Johnny
> 
> Johnny


Makes very good sense to mep A true artist will never produce any two items that are exactly the same, and it's that fact, IMHO that makes handcarved pipes made only with the talented hand and artistic imagination that only that individual carver posseses, is what makes some hand carved pipes worth the several hundred dollars (or thousands) that they are sold for.

However, I will take exception with one thing you say. The computer controlled micro-robots (for lack of a better term) that are capable of producing micro circuits with tolerances of a small fraction of a mm, could I'm sure be designed to machine carve any shape of pipe that the imagination can produce, and do so in quantity.

But as you say, "there is no substitute for certain things" and I believe and hope this intangible "thing" that I would call the human touch will always remain the most important factor in the market for hand carved pipes, and as the very finest briar becomes more and more difficult to find, I truly hope and believe that it will.:2


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## JohnnyFlake (May 31, 2006)

F. Prefect said:


> Makes very good sense to mep A true artist will never produce any two items that are exactly the same, and it's that fact, IMHO that makes handcarved pipes made only with the talented hand and artistic imagination that only that individual carver posseses, is what makes some hand carved pipes worth the several hundred dollars (or thousands) that they are sold for.
> 
> However, I will take exception with one thing you say. The computer controlled micro-robots (for lack of a better term) that are capable of producing micro circuits with tolerances of a small fraction of a mm, could I'm sure be designed to machine carve any shape of pipe that the imagination can produce, and do so in quantity.
> 
> But as you say, "there is no substitute for certain things" and I believe and hope this intangible "thing" that I would call the human touch will always remain the most important factor in the market for hand carved pipes, and as the very finest briar becomes more and more difficult to find, I truly hope and believe that it will.:2


Very Well Stated!!!p

Johnny


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## F. Prefect (Jan 14, 2007)

Thank you Johnny. 

"All I need, from this moment on, is a good place to dine, older whiskey and vintage wine, younger women, faster cars and Cuban Cigars! " 

And if I could have only 3 or 4 of those fine pleasures of life found in your sig., I'd surely grow old a happy man.:ss 

F. Prefect


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## JohnnyFlake (May 31, 2006)

F. Prefect said:


> Thank you Johnny.
> 
> "All I need, from this moment on, is a good place to dine, older whiskey and vintage wine, younger women, faster cars and Cuban Cigars! "
> 
> ...


Hey Man,

Why do you think I asked for six, fine, manly pleasures? I figure if I get real lucky and end up with three, maybe four, I'll have it made!!!:ss

Johnny


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## SUOrangeGuy (Feb 22, 2006)

JohnnyFlake said:


> Hey Man,
> 
> Why do you think I asked for six, fine, manly pleasures? I figure if I get real lucky and end up with three, maybe four, I'll have it made!!!:ss
> 
> Johnny


I think it depends on which 3 or 4


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## JohnnyFlake (May 31, 2006)

SUOrangeGuy said:


> I think it depends on which 3 or 4


Hey, when your my age (65), any 3 or 4 work just fine!!!

Johnny


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## floydp (Jun 6, 2004)

JohnnyFlake said:


> Hey, when your my age (65), any 3 or 4 work just fine!!!
> 
> Johnny


I hear ya Johnny, I'm 48 and I'd settle for 2 of them most of the time.

BTW this thread is a great read. Hell this whole pipe forum is quite a bastion of information. p


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