# Anyone have experience with the following Dunhill or IM Corona lighters?



## Mathew J (Jul 2, 2010)

So I am considering a new lighter, I have a Dupont Xtend however I want something a bit more classic.

Originally I was looking at dupont, specifically a line 1 with the vertical lines, but then they jacked their prices seriously, plus the proprietary butane leaves me a bit cold...

Then I was considering a Dunhill Rollagas, the barley one...looked nice but still a bit spendy...

Always had IM Corona in the back of my mind but can never find alot of info on the company itself....though the user reviews for their pipe lighter seem good.

I am now thinking of their Classico model and or their Double Corona...either that or still the Dunhill Rollagas or the Unique...problem is the Corona is about $120 vs 300+ for the dunhill...

Anyone have these and have any thoughts? is the Dunhill worth that much more? thanks


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## Enlil (Jun 10, 2010)

There are workarounds (adapters) for the Duponts so that you can use standard big bottles of butane (more highly refined gas is available this way).

The Rollagas lighters are good lighters, I see very little to complain about, but they arent the easiest lighters to refill either. I personally lean toward the Dupont though the ligne1 wouldnt be my first choice of those.

The Dunhill Unique looks supercool, but I havent ever touched one. The Corona "old boy" is a favorite of mine, so I suspect I would really like the Unique. I will continue to use/abuse my old boy while I consider if the dunhill could really be that much/any better (maybe its just an extended saving up session On a side note though, I always feel like the oldboy lighter is out of place when it finds its way into my pocket. It has too many snag prone fittings for pocket use IMHO and is more suited to being a table lighter.

The other Coronas that you mention are outside my experience also, but since the old boy has made such a long term positive impression on me I would definitely be open to trying some of their other products.

I suspect that there is not a bad lighter on your list though, and that all the listed lighters will serve well for a long time.

PS. if you do like the size/shape of the rollagas check out what Cartier has to offer too


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## Mathew J (Jul 2, 2010)

Hi Enlil,

Thanks, there is more to dupont besides the Adapter that is a bit of a turnoff for me now so I think I have officially written them off, though the thought of screwing a metal/brass adapter into something as expensive as a Dupont really isn't something I am open to given the fact that it voids the warranty from what I understand (even though it doesn't seem that great at only a few years like Dunhill)

I looked at more pictures of the Dunhill Unique that I could find on ebay, and I like the style but don't think I could justify the cost given how similar it is to the Old Boy...no sense in paying more than double for essentially the same thing to me.

So it really comes down to the Rollagas or the Old Boy...which will be a tough decision as the logical side of me will always gravitate towards the Corona vs the emotional the Dunhill....

I looked at Cartier a bit but nothing seemed too exciting to me...

thanks again.



Enlil said:


> There are workarounds (adapters) for the Duponts so that you can use standard big bottles of butane (more highly refined gas is available this way).
> 
> The Rollagas lighters are good lighters, I see very little to complain about, but they arent the easiest lighters to refill either. I personally lean toward the Dupont though the ligne1 wouldnt be my first choice of those.
> 
> ...


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## Enlil (Jun 10, 2010)

Although they advertise a warranty service at Dupont, it seems to me like sneezing, holding your mouth the wrong way, and allowing your tail-lights to exit the parking lot are specifically listed as events that will void your warranty on a Dupont (but it may just be me, and my poor french). As for that screw in Brass adapter I have not had much luck with those working properly to fill a Dupont (no adverse consequences other than a little spilled butane and a still empty lighter though) thats why I refer to workarounds instead of any particular product. Definitely not the right lighters for everyone, and probably not enough better than many of their competitors to justify the cost multiplier IMHO.

The Rollagas or the or the oldboy is an easy call. The Oldboy. The Unique I might take over the oldboy, but the rollagas... no way (not me anyway).

I love my oldboy a lot. In my mind it is the most ergonomic lighter there is (though it does not look it, it just fits my hands). The only knock I have against the oldboy is related to how it interacts with pockets (and the stuff in pockets).

There are a bunch of people on here that really like Xikar lighters. After reading some of the rave reviews on their products (those cutters are great BTW) I looked over their offerings and the Pipeline caught my eye. I have not tried one, but it looks very similar to my beloved oldboy. If service after the sale is a major factor for you then it may be worth looking into one of those as they represent additional savings compared even to the oldboy and I understand that their service after the sale is better than average.

I have never had any dealings with the i11 warranty service so I cannot comment other than to mention more than a decade with one of their lighters in use, and I have never looked at how to get the thing serviced... I do not know if it is safe to extrapolate that to their other lighter lines, but it is my experience with the oldboy.


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## Mathew J (Jul 2, 2010)

Hey Enlil,

So that is funny, I have only owned an Xtend/Maxijet which has seen light use and thankfully haven't had to deal with warranty work...however from what I hear on Dupont and to a degree Dunhill the "warranty" coverage is a bit to be desired, and services costs are somewhat astronomical (read one guy paid about $90 to service a lighter)...contrast that with Corona who supposedly offeres a pretty bullet proof lighter and "free-with an $8 service charge" repairs and well that is a hard thing to get past especially when so many cite issues with lighters leaking and what not....

I like both the unique and the Classico/Oldboy alot, though aside from the Dunhill name it is hard to get past the massive difference in price ($120 vs $300+) the limited warranty of the Dunhill, and the availability (more places seem to carry Corona)

The only question I have is surrounding the build quality, is the Dunhill made that much better or of that much better materials to justify the cost or is it simply a branding thing and a location of manufacture (dunhill being England for the Unique and Corona Japan), Corona seems to be a dedicated lighter company which announces on their website the advances they have made in silicon seals and plating, wheras on the Dunhill site I just see them say "lighters", seems as if they are focusing more on their leather belts and what not...

I think given the stylistic similarities between the Classico/Old boy and the Dunhill Unique that either would have the same negative effect on pocket goods, so thankfully I usually have a special pocket in my pants where I can stick the lighter 

I will check out Xicar but something about the classic style of these two is what draws me in...

I know what you're saying about the Rollagas, I love the look but a number of people have seemingly had gripes with them over the years, I emailed ARS asking them between Dunhill and Dupont if they had a favorite and they said both were good FWIW, but clearly a number here have issues.

Thanks



Enlil said:


> Although they advertise a warranty service at Dupont, it seems to me like sneezing, holding your mouth the wrong way, and allowing your tail-lights to exit the parking lot are specifically listed as events that will void your warranty on a Dupont (but it may just be me, and my poor french). As for that screw in Brass adapter I have not had much luck with those working properly to fill a Dupont (no adverse consequences other than a little spilled butane and a still empty lighter though) thats why I refer to workarounds instead of any particular product. Definitely not the right lighters for everyone, and probably not enough better than many of their competitors to justify the cost multiplier IMHO.
> 
> The Rollagas or the or the oldboy is an easy call. The Oldboy. The Unique I might take over the oldboy, but the rollagas... no way (not me anyway).
> 
> ...


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## Enlil (Jun 10, 2010)

Mathew J said:


> So that is funny


Whew, after I had been logged off for a while I started to second guess myself that my sarcasm might be taken the wrong way. Humor was what I was going for in my brief tirade about Duponts and the lengths one may have to go in order to return one to "fully" functional. I have never had any problems with my daily carry ligne2 (despite the fact that I have never charged it with anything but Vector butane), and the gentleman in Switzerland who I purchased it from indicated that it had always worked flawlessly for him. I dont know how to date these things, but I suspect that the ligne2 in question is from the 70's, so in my mind their warranties are irrelevant, regardless how seriously they may take them. I can see where torch lighters might be more fragile (or prone to breakage) and thus make service after the sale more important, but I dont have any experience with Duponts contemporary designs.



Mathew J said:


> is the Dunhill made that much better or of that much better materials to justify the cost ($120 vs $300+)


That seems like a good/fair question and considering the cost of gold (per ounce) it seems like it might be very easy for the manufacturer to justify an extra hundred bucks with just a couple of microns difference in plating thickness. I dont know if thats truly what the case is, but it seems that it may likely be a part of the difference in price.



Mathew J said:


> is it simply a branding thing and a location of manufacture (dunhill being England for the Unique and Corona Japan), Corona seems to be a dedicated lighter company which announces on their website the advances they have made in silicon seals and plating, whereas on the Dunhill site I just see them say "lighters", seems as if they are focusing more on their leather belts and what not...


Dunhill is a British company, but if I remember correctly they only sold lighters of British origins very early in their history (pre WWII). The Dunhill Rollagas lighters that I have are Swiss Made (as are the Cartier lighters that I mentioned before), and I would guess the Unique is also.

Dunhill has been traditionally a "gentlemans accessories" store (on high street) as opposed to a "manufacturer". They might possibly make some of the stuff that they sell, but I doubt it. Last time I was in a Dunhill store, I was impressed with their walk-in humidor (it was in Dallas BTW), but the store was chock full of suits, shoes (I presume both were Italian), watches (I am quite sure the watches were Swiss), sunglasses, tie clips, cuff links, fountain pens, cologne... "gentlemens accessories" in the truest old world sense.



Mathew J said:


> given the stylistic similarities between the Oldboy and Unique that either would have the same negative effect on pocket goods, so thankfully I usually have a special pocket in my pants where I can stick the lighter


My primary concern with pocket carrying an oldboy is that the "lift arm" may become opened in my pocket without my noticing it, allowing all the butane to escape, leaving me with an empty lighter at an inopportune moment. I am less concerned with the lighters effect on the other stuff in the pocket, more-so with the effect of other stuff in the pocket on all the small (and fragile Looking) mechanisms on the top of the lighter. I havent had a problem yet, but I dont let my oldboy spend much time in my pocket for the fear of what might happen to it if I get "lucky" when I absentmindedly drop my ligne2 (which lives in that pocket) down on top of it.



Mathew J said:


> I will check out Xicar but something about the classic style of these two is what draws me in...


I know exactly what you mean about the styling of these lighters, and the Pipeline (I am pretty sure thats the model designation) looks from the pictures to be a faithful homage to these lighters.

On a side note, it seems that many people who have not seen/used this style of lighter before are somewhat dumbfounded as to how they are manipulated. In many cases it may be simpler to light someones smoke than to instruct them on the usage of the lighter. It is very simple to demonstrate for them, but good luck explaining how it works "on the fly" after handing it over. Maybe its just the people in the circles I run with but everyone always wants the little screw that holds the flint and spring in the mechanism to play some active part in striking the lighter.



Mathew J said:


> I know what you're saying about the Rollagas, I love the look but a number of people have seemingly had gripes with them over the years


I tried to be subtle about it, but the rollagas are far from my favorite lighters that I currently have in my collection. Thats one of the reasons that I suggested you might like the Cartier (I particularly like the 5 sided design myself). They are roughly the same size/shape and both are Swiss made, but the Cartier feels much more substantial in the hand IMHO. The Cartier has a conventional filler valve, so no adapters are required to fill them, but the Rollagases I have require one of the little plastic adapters that come with the vector butane bottles in order to refill them.



Mathew J said:


> I emailed ARS asking them between Dunhill and Dupont if they had a favorite and they said both were good FWIW


If by "both are good" they meant one is "ok, pretty good" and the other is "the best lighter available, bar none, at any price", then I would have to say that I agree with their statement  (lol, sry 4 that, the oldboy is a close runner up, stunningly close considering the price difference) (and perhaps I should mention that I have not yet had the fortune to try a Caran 'de Ache lighter yet... so my conclusion may be premature)



Mathew J said:


> but clearly a number here have issues


I have wondered why it was just you and me involved in this discussion, but it seems that it may just be that I am the only one callous enough to parade my opinions of these finer lighters in public. I would also have been interested to hear what the rest of the smoking public feels about the lighters we have been discussing, but I am thick-skinned enough that I can post my feelings about these lighters in the open forum, so that hopefully any interested BOTL (or sisters too) could get the lighter that suits them best on the first try. There are few things worse than dropping this kind of cash and then being underwhelmed by the lighter that you get. I will be happy to elaborate ad nauseum here in the postings, or feel free to send me a PM if you want similar info on the down low.


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## Mathew J (Jul 2, 2010)

Enlil said:


> Whew, after I had been logged off for a while I started to second guess myself that my sarcasm might be taken the wrong way. Humor was what I was going for in my brief tirade about Duponts and the lengths one may have to go in order to return one to "fully" functional. I have never had any problems with my daily carry ligne2 (despite the fact that I have never charged it with anything but Vector butane), and the gentleman in Switzerland who I purchased it from indicated that it had always worked flawlessly for him. I dont know how to date these things, but I suspect that the ligne2 in question is from the 70's, so in my mind their warranties are irrelevant, regardless how seriously they may take them. I can see where torch lighters might be more fragile (or prone to breakage) and thus make service after the sale more important, but I dont have any experience with Duponts contemporary designs.


No worries there, I found that to be rather humorous, and given their approach to the little butane cans I feel it was on the mark as I am sure if they discovered you used non Dupont fluid they would tell you your SOL with their tiny warranty in a New York minute. And rest assured from everything I have read the Ligne series is pretty consistent regardless of the year of manufacture, the only variance of late has been in the XTend series which went from production in France to China with a slight style change yet no lowering of price (yeah wishful thinking).



> That seems like a good/fair question and considering the cost of gold (per ounce) it seems like it might be very easy for the manufacturer to justify an extra hundred bucks with just a couple of microns difference in plating thickness. I dont know if thats truly what the case is, but it seems that it may likely be a part of the difference in price.


Hopefully this is more sarcasm  I am hoping there is a tangible difference in the finish/construction but I am somewhat skeptical, I have seen far too many examples of Japanese products that best their Eurpoean counterparts in both build and function for a far lesser expense to make a definitive statement like that...my favorite examples are Sailor and Namiki pens, I only own the latter but it is an amazing writer when compared to my montblanc and from everything I have read the same can be said of Sailor.



> Dunhill is a British company, but if I remember correctly they only sold lighters of British origins very early in their history (pre WWII). The Dunhill Rollagas lighters that I have are Swiss Made (as are the Cartier lighters that I mentioned before), and I would guess the Unique is also.


I wish I could post images but everything I have seen of the unique indicates that it is still made in England (well the stamp on the bottom says "Made in England" vs that on the Rollagas which says "Swiss Made") Guess I have to write back to you 30 times before I am granted that ability 



> Dunhill has been traditionally a "gentlemans accessories" store (on high street) as opposed to a "manufacturer". They might possibly make some of the stuff that they sell, but I doubt it. Last time I was in a Dunhill store, I was impressed with their walk-in humidor (it was in Dallas BTW), but the store was chock full of suits, shoes (I presume both were Italian), watches (I am quite sure the watches were Swiss), sunglasses, tie clips, cuff links, fountain pens, cologne... "gentlemens accessories" in the truest old world sense.


The irony would be if they had Corona make their lighters for them , I read once in the NG that they in fact did with the Unique but I doubt it given the manufacturer origin stamp.



> My primary concern with pocket carrying an oldboy is that the "lift arm" may become opened in my pocket without my noticing it, allowing all the butane to escape, leaving me with an empty lighter at an inopportune moment. I am less concerned with the lighters effect on the other stuff in the pocket, more-so with the effect of other stuff in the pocket on all the small (and fragile Looking) mechanisms on the top of the lighter. I havent had a problem yet, but I dont let my oldboy spend much time in my pocket for the fear of what might happen to it if I get "lucky" when I absentmindedly drop my ligne2 (which lives in that pocket) down on top of it.


So I thought the cover was just there to protect the tip and not prevent butane from seeping out as there aren't any gaskets on it, I guess if the seals fail they could leak but didn't think simply having the cap up allows butane to escape, then again I have no idea as I don't own one of these yet. And yeah I got you on the other stuff impacting the lighter, those little exposed pipes are perfect for keys to get stuck in, but I guess Dunhill figures those who own these are also wealthy enough to have a driver



> I know exactly what you mean about the styling of these lighters, and the Pipeline (I am pretty sure thats the model designation) looks from the pictures to be a faithful homage to these lighters.
> 
> On a side note, it seems that many people who have not seen/used this style of lighter before are somewhat dumbfounded as to how they are manipulated. In many cases it may be simpler to light someones smoke than to instruct them on the usage of the lighter. It is very simple to demonstrate for them, but good luck explaining how it works "on the fly" after handing it over. Maybe its just the people in the circles I run with but everyone always wants the little screw that holds the flint and spring in the mechanism to play some active part in striking the lighter.


Ha, the funny/sad thing is I didn't get them either until I started looking into them, didn't make sense why all the plumbing was exposed to me until I really took a closer look, and I really didn't get the flint screw idea until I saw a manual that explained it.



> I tried to be subtle about it, but the rollagas are far from my favorite lighters that I currently have in my collection. Thats one of the reasons that I suggested you might like the Cartier (I particularly like the 5 sided design myself). They are roughly the same size/shape and both are Swiss made, but the Cartier feels much more substantial in the hand IMHO. The Cartier has a conventional filler valve, so no adapters are required to fill them, but the Rollagases I have require one of the little plastic adapters that come with the vector butane bottles in order to refill them.


I looked at Cartier but what I saw was a bit modern for me and again it came down to wanting a lighter from a company known for lighters, but to be fair I will give them another look as I am not sure if I looked at that style.



> If by "both are good" they meant one is "ok, pretty good" and the other is "the best lighter available, bar none, at any price", then I would have to say that I agree with their statement  (lol, sry 4 that, the oldboy is a close runner up, stunningly close considering the price difference) (and perhaps I should mention that I have not yet had the fortune to try a Caran 'de Ache lighter yet... so my conclusion may be premature)


Here is what they said verbatim...

_Both Dunhill and dupont are very high quality lighters and neither is "better" than the other. It all comes down to personal taste._

They didn't and presumably wouldn't comment on Corona given the companies repair/warranty I presume, doubt many engage in ARS's services given everything costs max $8



> I have wondered why it was just you and me involved in this discussion, but it seems that it may just be that I am the only one callous enough to parade my opinions of these finer lighters in public. I would also have been interested to hear what the rest of the smoking public feels about the lighters we have been discussing, but I am thick-skinned enough that I can post my feelings about these lighters in the open forum, so that hopefully any interested BOTL (or sisters too) could get the lighter that suits them best on the first try. There are few things worse than dropping this kind of cash and then being underwhelmed by the lighter that you get. I will be happy to elaborate ad nauseum here in the postings, or feel free to send me a PM if you want similar info on the down low.


So my guess is that not many are "into" lighters, I have read a number if posts on the News groups over the years but nothing with any regularity, and those that do post are highly into their brand of choice (guessing not many collect lighters)

I figure with regular smoking doing out of vogue less and less are willing to spend the coin for a dedicated high end lighter, and moreso given that the cheap torch lighters work well for cigars.

I am trying to be as smart as I can about spending alot of money on a lighter and picking the right one out of the door (actually even if I get the wrong one I am married to it) but I think I am in a good spot in terms of models I am interested in, the Rollagas is close to what I originally wanted whereas the Corona and the Unique are truly interesting to me, now it is just a matter of determing if I am crazy enough to spend the money on a Dunhill and then if I do which one I opt for. I think though to be fair if I was using pure logic on this I would have just opted for the Corona though as damn that is a big price difference for what appears to be identical quality.


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## Enlil (Jun 10, 2010)

Mathew J said:


> rest assured from everything I have read the Ligne series is pretty consistent regardless of the year of manufacture, the only variance of late has been in the XTend series which went from production in France to China with a slight style change yet no lowering of price (yeah wishful thinking).


I know thats the party line, but it seems suspicious to me the way the HK knockoffs went from being terrible imitations, clearly cheaply made, with many details amiss, to being dead ringers with most details very close to spec (including gatsbys and ligneD) at about the same time period that you reference above.



Mathew J said:


> Hopefully this is more sarcasm  I am hoping there is a tangible difference in the finish/construction but I am somewhat skeptical, I have seen far too many examples of Japanese products that best their European counterparts in both build and function for a far lesser expense to make a definitive statement like that...my favorite examples are Sailor and Namiki pens, I only own the latter but it is an amazing writer when compared to my montblanc and from everything I have read the same can be said of Sailor.


I can see why you might think that, but no, the gold on my rollagas is quite a bit thicker than the gold on my oldboy. I havent checked the melt price of gold recently, but if I have all my conversion factors straight, just 30 grams of the pure stuff (gold) is more than the cost of a couple of these pricey lighters (well maybe not that many Duponts, but clearly more than a handful of oldboys) so the price difference may not be ALL about branding. The finish on the oldboy was nice when new, but my thumb made quick work of the gold and the lacquer (its a wood jacketed one) around the thumb-wheel. I kinda like the character that the brassing imparts though (kind of like "yeah, I'm getting my moneys worth out of this sucker")



Mathew J said:


> I wish I could post images but everything I have seen of the unique indicates that it is still "Made in England"


Dang it. Why did you have to tell me that. Here I was all content with my smoking accessories, and now I know that there is yet another lighter, most likely the parent design of one of my favorite lighters of all time (and making it even tougher for me) from yet another country of origin. Ouch. I was just trying to be helpful and you had to go and tell me that. Now there is a virtual vacuum on my shelf of cool lighters. You were the one who was supposed to be spending money on cool lighters, not me.



Mathew J said:


> The irony would be if they had Corona make their lighters for them , I read once in the NG that they in fact did with the Unique but I doubt it given the manufacturer origin stamp.


That would ease my mind, but if proven it would make many others feel ripped off or worse yet betrayed. I have no idea what criteria the British have established for what may or may not be marked "made in England". They may be able to take shortcuts by just assembling or finishing them over there and still get to "legally state" that they are "made" there.



Mathew J said:


> it came down to wanting a lighter from a company known for lighters


I can see what you are saying now. I was just comparing Swiss made lighters, as I was still blissfully unaware that some Dunhills were still made in U.K. The size similarity of those two Swiss lighters makes them a kind of "category" to my way of thinking. The difference between them is not really a "visible" thing (although there are visible differences) it is however something that will strike you immediately if you have a Cartier in one hand and a Rollagas in the other.



Mathew J said:


> Here is what they said verbatim...
> 
> _Both Dunhill and dupont are very high quality lighters and neither is "better" than the other. It all comes down to personal taste._


Spoken like a true Englishman  I have no ties on either side of the channel, and despite a predilection against the guys on the continent, I have painfully had to admit that they do make one heck of a lighter (even if they talk really funny). It really did hit me kinda hard. "How can the Swiss, who make such marvelous mechanical contraptions, allow themselves to be bettered by the French? Do they not have enough industrial espionage to allow them to see what the lighters the French make are like? Why dont the Germans get into the game? Surely the final word cannot be allowed to en Francis." I have re-evaluated many of the things I thought I knew of the old world in light of the revelation that the French could indeed make a quality mechanical product. (Save yourself the bother though, the Duponts are a fluke. The exception that proves the rule so to speak)



Mathew J said:


> my guess is that not many are "into" lighters... and those that are highly into their brand of choice (guessing not many collect lighters)


Perhaps that is the case. I am prepared to discuss lighters that are considerably more common that these, but I may be in an unusual position of having intimate experience with the lighters that you were asking about, although I have started to think I may need to sample more variety of the i11 offerings.



Mathew J said:


> I figure with regular smoking going out of vogue, less are willing to spend the coin for a dedicated high end lighter, and moreso given that the cheap torch lighters work well for cigars.


Yes, despite the fact that I carry a Dupont around with me everywhere, I still buy the $1.50 Bic disposable lighters from time to time. Nothing worse than being in a camp somewhere and running out of butane, and those darn things are brutally reliable. But when I'm just here around town I see no need to fill the landfill with empty plastic lighters, when I could be using the best lighter made (especially when if its refilled with "cheap" Vector butane it will pay for itself in less than 100 years  woohoo).



Mathew J said:


> I am trying to be as smart as I can about spending alot of money on a lighter and picking the right one out of the door (actually even if I get the wrong one I am married to it) but I think I am in a good spot in terms of models I am interested in, the Rollagas is close to what I originally wanted whereas the Corona and the Unique are truly interesting to me, now it is just a matter of determing if I am crazy enough to spend the money on a Dunhill and then if I do which one I opt for. I think though to be fair if I was using pure logic on this I would have just opted for the Corona though as damn that is a big price difference for what appears to be identical quality.


It is tough. I might try to see if there is a Dunhill at the high end mall in one of your surrounding areas. I dont know how many of them there are here Stateside (or if you are here stateside for that matter) but I have been inside more than one in Texas, so that makes me think they are not that uncommon. Maybe then you could "test drive" their lighters just to kind of bring it into focus for you. The B&M closest down the road from me has a small selection of Duponts in the display case, so it seems to me that a little legwork could be quite illuminating for you. With the magnitude of decision that you have in front of you (lucky devil), I would take my time, and go a little out of the way, to examine your chosen favorite before laying out the cash (especially if you will have to enter into matrimonial bliss with the one you deflower). These lighters have important characteristics that words and pictures cannot do justice. You have to feel it in YOUR hand to really appreciate how what appear to be subtle differences on the spec sheet make for quite different lighters when all is said and done.

BTW maybe we should both have been milking the post count for these exchanges instead of running these marathon "wall-o-text" posts back and forth (if I understand properly there may well be those who have avoided our discussion based solely on our word counts):rockon:


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## Mathew J (Jul 2, 2010)

Enlil said:


> I know thats the party line, but it seems suspicious to me the way the HK knockoffs went from being terrible imitations, clearly cheaply made, with many details amiss, to being dead ringers with most details very close to spec (including gatsbys and ligneD) at about the same time period that you reference above.


Seems to be the case in watches also (another vice of mine)....things that make you go hmmmm.....



> I can see why you might think that, but no, the gold on my rollagas is quite a bit thicker than the gold on my oldboy. I havent checked the melt price of gold recently, but if I have all my conversion factors straight, just 30 grams of the pure stuff (gold) is more than the cost of a couple of these pricey lighters (well maybe not that many Duponts, but clearly more than a handful of oldboys) so the price difference may not be ALL about branding. The finish on the oldboy was nice when new, but my thumb made quick work of the gold and the lacquer (its a wood jacketed one) around the thumb-wheel. I kinda like the character that the brassing imparts though (kind of like "yeah, I'm getting my moneys worth out of this sucker")


I really really want to believe this as it would justify in my mind at least the seemingly monstorous difference in price however two things, 1. I know from other hobbies that unless your using alot of plating material then you're not really increasing the materials content that much, and 2. my understanding is that Corona have increased the thickness of their plating process as well as upgraded all of their lighters with new silicon seals (don't know if Dunhill and Dupont do that or if they always did).



> Dang it. Why did you have to tell me that. Here I was all content with my smoking accessories, and now I know that there is yet another lighter, most likely the parent design of one of my favorite lighters of all time (and making it even tougher for me) from yet another country of origin. Ouch. I was just trying to be helpful and you had to go and tell me that. Now there is a virtual vacuum on my shelf of cool lighters. You were the one who was supposed to be spending money on cool lighters, not me.


So I really wish I could post links and images but if you want to see what I am talking about do a search on the japanese sites for the model number of the Unique, I was searching for dunhill UL1301, there is a site called iguanasell as well as taobao that has some really really high quality images. It is right on the base, the fill port cover says "unique" and one part says "Dunhill" the opposite says "Made in England"



> That would ease my mind, but if proven it would make many others feel ripped off or worse yet betrayed. I have no idea what criteria the British have established for what may or may not be marked "made in England". They may be able to take shortcuts by just assembling or finishing them over there and still get to "legally state" that they are "made" there.


So I know the swiss have a set of standards for determining what can be considered "Swiss Made" which are listed on Wikipedia under Swiss Made, I think the base of it is at least 50% of the materials and manufacture must be completed in Switzerland, not sure about the UK, though I wouldn't be surprised if alot of this is farmed out to someone else.



> I can see what you are saying now. I was just comparing Swiss made lighters, as I was still blissfully unaware that some Dunhills were still made in U.K. The size similarity of those two Swiss lighters makes them a kind of "category" to my way of thinking. The difference between them is not really a "visible" thing (although there are visible differences) it is however something that will strike you immediately if you have a Cartier in one hand and a Rollagas in the other.


To be fair the only Dunhill I know of made in the UK is the Unique and that is only if you go by the stamp on the bottom, and the one thing I give Corona credit for is that it seems like the sole business is making lighters, rather it is their core competency, contrast that with a Dunhill or a Dupont which seems more into the lifestyle aspect, but still love their product as they seemingly do an amazing job. I looked at some of the Cartier lighters and really don't know why but they don't speak to me, possibly the rounded cap...not sure.



> Spoken like a true Englishman  I have no ties on either side of the channel, and despite a predilection against the guys on the continent, I have painfully had to admit that they do make one heck of a lighter (even if they talk really funny). It really did hit me kinda hard. "How can the Swiss, who make such marvelous mechanical contraptions, allow themselves to be bettered by the French? Do they not have enough industrial espionage to allow them to see what the lighters the French make are like? Why dont the Germans get into the game? Surely the final word cannot be allowed to en Francis." I have re-evaluated many of the things I thought I knew of the old world in light of the revelation that the French could indeed make a quality mechanical product. (Save yourself the bother though, the Duponts are a fluke. The exception that proves the rule so to speak)


So don't forget that the French also make some wonderful pens, Waterman and Parker come to mind. Though like you I am surprised there aren't more offereings in this space, specifically from Germany, you'd think beyond the Japanse, Swiss, and French there would be some other contenders.



> Perhaps that is the case. I am prepared to discuss lighters that are considerably more common that these, but I may be in an unusual position of having intimate experience with the lighters that you were asking about, although I have started to think I may need to sample more variety of the i11 offerings.
> 
> Yes, despite the fact that I carry a Dupont around with me everywhere, I still buy the $1.50 Bic disposable lighters from time to time. Nothing worse than being in a camp somewhere and running out of butane, and those darn things are brutally reliable. But when I'm just here around town I see no need to fill the landfill with empty plastic lighters, when I could be using the best lighter made (especially when if its refilled with "cheap" Vector butane it will pay for itself in less than 100 years  woohoo).


It seems to go in waves, on another board I frequent which doesn't deal with smoking someone mentioned lighters which reignited my interest in the matter, from the news group posts I saw it seems as if there was a period of activity but with those going the way of the dodo I don't see as much, especially not here. I also started threads on the CA forums as well as Brothers of briar but still not a big turnout, many seem to favor matches or something inexpensive to a luxury lighter.



> It is tough. I might try to see if there is a Dunhill at the high end mall in one of your surrounding areas. I dont know how many of them there are here Stateside (or if you are here stateside for that matter) but I have been inside more than one in Texas, so that makes me think they are not that uncommon. Maybe then you could "test drive" their lighters just to kind of bring it into focus for you. The B&M closest down the road from me has a small selection of Duponts in the display case, so it seems to me that a little legwork could be quite illuminating for you. With the magnitude of decision that you have in front of you (lucky devil), I would take my time, and go a little out of the way, to examine your chosen favorite before laying out the cash (especially if you will have to enter into matrimonial bliss with the one you deflower). These lighters have important characteristics that words and pictures cannot do justice. You have to feel it in YOUR hand to really appreciate how what appear to be subtle differences on the spec sheet make for quite different lighters when all is said and done.


Yeah, I am going to try a local shop that I know sells Corona to get a feel for them, I have seen a few duponts but never actually held one, and a guy I work with has a Dunhill Rollagas which I have examined at length a few times so I am comfortable with that model but still it doesn't seem like it would be worth the $300+ they are asking....

I also spoke via message with a gentlman on Youtube who is a pipe/cigar enthusiast who owns an IM Corona classico (noticed it in one of his videos) and he is going to do a video segment on the lighter itself for me (his name is smokeringspipedreams), thought that was nice of him.

I also found a place closing out of Dupont and could pick up a line 1 with the lines in larger for $266 USD though I hear they are very heavy and have no sound to them which would be a good thing...or they have a Line 2 with the lines for $360, but still upwards of $400 is a bit of my breaking point of thinking I am nuts as I would either never carry it or just not really use it as it was meant to be used.

So right now I see it as I am either getting...

Dunhill Rollagas (price with discount is very good when compared to MSRP $320 vs $520) - though reportedly not as reliable as others

Dunhill Unique (price ok with discount vs MSRP $300 vs $395) but really comparable option for 1/3rd the cost and the exposed plumbing might be annoying, plus not as "classic" given it was released in the 80s.

ST Dupont Line 1 on clearance (less money but less interesting to me, and line 1 butane near impossible to find which means mail order large quantities or alternative method of filling)

ST Dupont Line 2 on clearance (still expensive comparatively, not bit on the pingy sound, and the fuel concern)

And lastly IM Corona Classico - the reasonable choice given price, warranty, fuel, and everything but just not as exciting as the others...truly a logical pick in an illogical decision. Though if I go this route I can arguably swing the Sailor Pro gear in white or yellow I have been looking at.



> BTW maybe we should both have been milking the post count for these exchanges instead of running these marathon "wall-o-text" posts back and forth (if I understand properly there may well be those who have avoided our discussion based solely on our word counts):rockon:


Totally, from now on we should do every line in a seperate post...then maybe we can get some image posting rights around here.


----------



## Enlil (Jun 10, 2010)

Mathew J said:


> 1. I know from other hobbies that unless your using alot of plating material then you're not really increasing the materials content that much.


I dont really have any knowledge in the area of plating, but I have wondered if the application on my oldboy was what the old timers used to call "gold wash".



Mathew J said:


> 2. my understanding is that Corona have increased the thickness of their plating process as well as upgraded all of their lighters with new silicon seals (don't know if Dunhill and Dupont do that or if they always did)


The plate on my oldboy still looks quite overall, but it has been rubbed off in several high use/friction areas. I did not mean to imply a slight either, I was just trying to pass on my impression that the plating is thicker on my dunhills and thicker yet again on my Duponts. Its a thing that is hard to quantify though, is it double, and then double again? Not sure. Triple, and then five times? Pretty sure thats not the case either. How thick is 20microns anyway? Thicker than the plate on either of the other two without question.

As far as what material is used for seals today I have read about the new silicone ones in the coronas, but I have had my oldboy since around Y2K, so I am sure its the old spec through and through. Maybe its germane to re-emphasize that all the lighters I am talking about are at least that old, but my Dunhills may be some of the most antique lighters in my collection, and all are truly vintage, so if quality has either increased or decreased in the past decade (or three) the change may have escaped my notice.

I find it remarkable though that these lighters still work (and work they do) so long after their last visit with certified personnel. You will most likely have a very long time to reflect on whatever decision you eventually make (and good luck keeping up with the warranty card until you need it in 2042  oh wait I forgot about the tail light policy:biggrin:, oh yeah thats just for the french ones though, I suppose:banghead.



Mathew J said:


> It is right on the base, the fill port cover says "unique" and one part says "Dunhill" the opposite says "Made in England"


Very cool indeed. I cant look at them for too long though, so maybe its best that there arent any pictures in the thread. ~Trying to resist~



Mathew J said:


> So I know the swiss have a set of standards for determining what can be considered "Swiss Made" which are listed on Wikipedia under Swiss Made, I think the base of it is at least 50% of the materials and manufacture must be completed in Switzerland, not sure about the UK, though I wouldn't be surprised if alot of this is farmed out to someone else..


I think each jurisdiction gets to make up their own qualifications. I was aware that Swiss have a "fairly stringent" standard, I am surprised that it is 50%, but perhaps I should not be. I am almost afraid to try and find out what % constitutes made in USA in light of that little fact.



Mathew J said:


> one thing I give Corona credit for is that it seems like the sole business is making lighters, rather it is their core competency


That does sound like a very good point to me.



Mathew J said:


> contrast that with a Dunhill or a Dupont which seems more into the lifestyle aspect


I am not really sure that what appear to be parallels between the two companies are actually parallel. I am more familiar with dunhills history than duponts (probably because the source materials are in my native tongue) and the companies that they are today are quite different from the companies that they were when they were designing these lighters. If I recall correctly Alfred Dunhill was a lighter fanatic, and invented a trench lighter that would start a fire (or a smolder) without a lot of extra light that would give away the position of the lighter (and simultaneously give away the position of the "Tommy" that was using it). Was that WWII? I dont remember, but that seems entirely to recent in my recollection. It seems like I remember that Dunhill shops (and manufacturing) were bombed out quite thoroughly in the first half of the 1940's, leading to some of the fog surrounding the details of the company history. They did aggressively pursue the "brand loyalty" "lifestyle" from early on though. Dupont on the other hand I seem to think of as artificers (or maybe jewelers is more correct). They came at it from the other side of the coin making high quality cuff links, tie tacks and such, and made lighters as an extension of their jewelry line. That lead to lighter patents, but making lighters was not what they set out to do, just something they did particularly well.



Mathew J said:


> I looked at some of the Cartier lighters and really don't know why but they don't speak to me, possibly the rounded cap...


Yeah, I know the one of which you speak, and thats not the one I fancy either. I will go check their official website, they may have discontinued the 5sided shape. Very square, like the rollagas, except with a bevel (the fifth side) running down the corner where the thumbwheel is. They are frequently lacquer lighters (ohh the faux tortoise just really gets me going lol). But I am not trying to foist these on you, I just think they compare favorably to the rollagas (and the way the thumbwheel swings out for use as you open the cap, and then back inside the cap when you close it, is pretty cool IMHO)



Mathew J said:


> So don't forget that the French also make some wonderful pens, Waterman and Parker come to mind.


Ok, you got me there, Waterman pens are good too. I thought I could just gloss over that one, but you are right. One lighter company and one pen company but every other thing that comes from france could use a shower :biggrin:. Hey wait a minute... when did the french acquire Parker? I thought that was a USA pen co. Wait a minute, what about #2 Ideal, New York, thats a Waterman, in fact I have a Waterman that says London too. So to redo the tally thats One lighter company and 83% credit for the two pen companies combined. lol I'm just gonna stick to my story that Duponts are the only thing from France that is worth checking into.



Mathew J said:


> Though like you I am surprised there aren't more offereings in this space, specifically from Germany, you'd think beyond the Japanse, Swiss, and French there would be some other contenders.


This part is back to referring to lighters I assume? 'cause Pelikan FTW!:dude: I havent tried any of the pricier Asian pens, but I have read a lot of praise for them.



Mathew J said:


> but still not a big turnout, many seem to favor matches or something inexpensive to a luxury lighter.


I cant say I blame them in the slightest, on the other hand I cant say that I have any regrets about frapping down the cash either. Particularly since you can amortize the price of the lighter over several decades of use. Eventually the cost of the lighter will become fuzzy in your memory, but the lighter will still be solid in your hand, or that is my experience anyway.



Mathew J said:


> Yeah, I am going to try a local shop that I know sells Corona to get a feel for them


That is a good plan.



Mathew J said:


> I have seen a few duponts but never actually held one


I think these are much more rare IRL.



Mathew J said:


> a guy I work with has a Dunhill Rollagas which I have examined at length a few times so I am comfortable with that model but still it doesn't seem like it would be worth the $300+ they are asking....


That is supercool, and I understand what you are saying, does it strike you as being "heavy" or "solid". Maybe if you can put words to what you feel about that specimen I can address details of the Duponts and how the L1, L2, and rollagas compare/contrast for you. (For example the lid of the ligne1 seems more similar to the lid of the rollagas, and the ligne2 lid seems more "heavy duty".



Mathew J said:


> I also spoke via message with a gentleman on Youtube who is a pipe/cigar enthusiast who owns an IM Corona classico (noticed it in one of his videos) and he is going to do a video segment on the lighter itself for me (his name is smokeringspipedreams), thought that was nice of him.


Very nice indeed. Be sure to post a link.:doh:



Mathew J said:


> I also found a place closing out of Dupont and could pick up a line 1 with the lines in larger for $266 USD though I hear they are very heavy and have no sound to them which would be a good thing...or they have a Line 2 with the lines for $360, but still upwards of $400 is a bit of my breaking point of thinking I am nuts as I would either never carry it or just not really use it as it was meant to be used.


The L1 do ping, but its not nearly as hearty of a ping as the L2. It is kind of a higher pitch, with a thinner timbre, and it is quieter, but it does make a distinctive noise (less so if it is covered in lacquer). Both the L1 and L2 are heavy (especially the larger sizes of the two), but its not a drag your pants down by the pockets heavy, just a "wow, thats heavy for a cigarette lighter" heavy.



Mathew J said:


> So right now I see it as I am either getting...
> 
> Dunhill Rollagas (price with discount is very good when compared to MSRP $320 vs $520) - though reportedly not as reliable as others
> 
> ...


Ok, cool. That list is exactly in reverse order from what I was thinking... so we must be very near the same page:drinking:

As for the ping noise, I can see why one might prefer a lighter that can be opperated silently, but if you open a ligne2 by grabbing the top of the lighter with your off hand, and keep hold of the lid while you control the speed of the opening, the L2 can be as silent as any other lighter. But dont forget and just plop it open in the deerstand (or wherever it is you were trying to be stealthy). That reminds me of one of my favorite dupont selling point - These are the easiest lighters to operate wearing oven mitts (although the rollalite is probably close). Not that you need to strike a lighter wearing oven mits, but I have never been forced to remove my gloves to operate my favorite L2 (although smoking wearing gloves/mitts is an entirely different subject). Also all the animals in your daily life will come to associate the ping of your lighter with you (its crazy sounding but it seems to be the case). When my neighbors dog gets riled up at the commotion I/we are making in the backyard just opening and closing my lighter frequently gets it to stop barking at me/us,its like hes all "oh, if its just ya'll I'll go do something else".



Mathew J said:


> Dunhill Unique... not as "classic" given it was released in the 80s.


While I do not doubt the veracity of that statement I cannot confirm it either. However the unique is a reissue/replica (or modern version is probably most accurate) of previous dunhill lighters. Dunhill has been making liftarm designs with a wick that use "zippo" fluid (petrol) for a looong time. Some of the older ones even have swiss watch movements inlaid into the side of the lighter (so that your pocket lighter and pocket watch are both easier to keep track of in all the pockets of that three piece suit  . I have wondered more than once if thats how they made their connections with the swiss company that made (makes?) the rollalite and then subsequently the rollagas. I do not recall the designation of the older petrol lighter that looks like the unique, but it does have a parallel like the rollalite/rollagas are parallels.



Mathew J said:


> Totally, from now on we should do every line in a seperate post...then maybe we can get some image posting rights around here.


----------



## Mathew J (Jul 2, 2010)

Enlil said:


> I dont really have any knowledge in the area of plating, but I have wondered if the application on my oldboy was what the old timers used to call "gold wash".


Hey Enlil, so guess we haven't learned out lesson on monster posts yet, the irony is that I still don't have the ability to link images or html yet...

With plating I am not that familar with it either, only know what the Savinelli site says and supposedly the new ones have more plating and better seals for whatever that is worth, and no idea how it compares to the higher end lighters.

Also I should not that gentleman posted the video review of his Classico Corona today, you can search for him on google as Smokeringspipedreams, overall it was a great review and I got a better picture of what the lighter looks like. Really amazed though about the community and how someone would take their time to do a review like that so quickly.



> The plate on my oldboy still looks quite overall, but it has been rubbed off in several high use/friction areas. I did not mean to imply a slight either, I was just trying to pass on my impression that the plating is thicker on my dunhills and thicker yet again on my Duponts. Its a thing that is hard to quantify though, is it double, and then double again? Not sure. Triple, and then five times? Pretty sure thats not the case either. How thick is 20microns anyway? Thicker than the plate on either of the other two without question.
> 
> As far as what material is used for seals today I have read about the new silicone ones in the coronas, but I have had my oldboy since around Y2K, so I am sure its the old spec through and through. Maybe its germane to re-emphasize that all the lighters I am talking about are at least that old, but my Dunhills may be some of the most antique lighters in my collection, and all are truly vintage, so if quality has either increased or decreased in the past decade (or three) the change may have escaped my notice.
> 
> I find it remarkable though that these lighters still work (and work they do) so long after their last visit with certified personnel. You will most likely have a very long time to reflect on whatever decision you eventually make (and good luck keeping up with the warranty card until you need it in 2042  oh wait I forgot about the tail light policy:biggrin:, oh yeah thats just for the french ones though, I suppose:banghead.


I get ya, and would hope for the cost variance there is a tangible difference. And one of the reasons I love items like this is that I work with technology that is obsolete in minutes, the timeless aspect of these items really is something I can admire.



> I am not really sure that what appear to be parallels between the two companies are actually parallel. I am more familiar with dunhills history than duponts (probably because the source materials are in my native tongue) and the companies that they are today are quite different from the companies that they were when they were designing these lighters. If I recall correctly Alfred Dunhill was a lighter fanatic, and invented a trench lighter that would start a fire (or a smolder) without a lot of extra light that would give away the position of the lighter (and simultaneously give away the position of the "Tommy" that was using it). Was that WWII? I dont remember, but that seems entirely to recent in my recollection. It seems like I remember that Dunhill shops (and manufacturing) were bombed out quite thoroughly in the first half of the 1940's, leading to some of the fog surrounding the details of the company history. They did aggressively pursue the "brand loyalty" "lifestyle" from early on though. Dupont on the other hand I seem to think of as artificers (or maybe jewelers is more correct). They came at it from the other side of the coin making high quality cuff links, tie tacks and such, and made lighters as an extension of their jewelry line. That lead to lighter patents, but making lighters was not what they set out to do, just something they did particularly well.


Wow truly amazing info, never knew that about Dunhill and his ties to wartime lighters, the fact that he was passionate about this really is impressive, at least moreso to me than a history like Dupont who was simply approached by someone with money who wanted them to make a lighter, but then again what does history matter in the here and now times of disposable anything, I always find balancing originality/history/and value a delicate act...depending on my interest in the item and desire determines which facet wins out.



> Yeah, I know the one of which you speak, and thats not the one I fancy either. I will go check their official website, they may have discontinued the 5sided shape. Very square, like the rollagas, except with a bevel (the fifth side) running down the corner where the thumbwheel is. They are frequently lacquer lighters (ohh the faux tortoise just really gets me going lol). But I am not trying to foist these on you, I just think they compare favorably to the rollagas (and the way the thumbwheel swings out for use as you open the cap, and then back inside the cap when you close it, is pretty cool IMHO)


I will look for the other cartier lighters and see what they are like, I only found a few sites selling them and didn't think to look on the official cartier page.



> Ok, you got me there, Waterman pens are good too. I thought I could just gloss over that one, but you are right. One lighter company and one pen company but every other thing that comes from france could use a shower :biggrin:. Hey wait a minute... when did the french acquire Parker? I thought that was a USA pen co. Wait a minute, what about #2 Ideal, New York, thats a Waterman, in fact I have a Waterman that says London too. So to redo the tally thats One lighter company and 83% credit for the two pen companies combined. lol I'm just gonna stick to my story that Duponts are the only thing from France that is worth checking into.


Hmm, well I can only speak for what I know and my Parker sonnet says made in France, in glancing over wikipedia it appears they have a number of points of origin...seems like these products aren't as tied to locale as watches and lighters, then again with Dupont in china and dunhill in england...ok I will stop now.



> This part is back to referring to lighters I assume? 'cause Pelikan FTW!:dude: I havent tried any of the pricier Asian pens, but I have read a lot of praise for them.


Yeah my stream of consciousness way of typing doesn't help, I am back on lighters with the germans, amazed they haven't entered the fray, you'd think they could put down the steak knives for a second and focus on the flame.



> I cant say I blame them in the slightest, on the other hand I cant say that I have any regrets about frapping down the cash either. Particularly since you can amortize the price of the lighter over several decades of use. Eventually the cost of the lighter will become fuzzy in your memory, but the lighter will still be solid in your hand, or that is my experience anyway.


Here I was only speaking for myself, I have no qualms about spending on spendy things however I have a limit, and there is a big part which has a reservation about dropping upwards of 400 on a lighter, for whatever reason it seems like $300 is the magic high spot for me and even thats a stretch, but for those into it I wouldn't be surprised if the sky is the limit, much the same way I am with pens and watches, though even there I have my max.



> That is supercool, and I understand what you are saying, does it strike you as being "heavy" or "solid". Maybe if you can put words to what you feel about that specimen I can address details of the Duponts and how the L1, L2, and rollagas compare/contrast for you. (For example the lid of the ligne1 seems more similar to the lid of the rollagas, and the ligne2 lid seems more "heavy duty".


So I will try...

Ideally I think the Dunhill Rollagas and the unique are both "me", the unique because it has an old school classic basic design, the rollagas because it is smaller, thinner, has a cool tech gadgety feel to it with the easy access adjuster and the crazy hydraulic cap, plus the easy access fill port.

The dupont appeals to my status side where I can pling and know that it will be heard, also something about the big rectangle looks good, but I am curious as to how annoying it would be to deal with this size/weight of something, I have read a few who have said the Line 2 doesn't work well for daily duty wheras I feel either of the Dunhills are more pocketable (though many say the exposed bits of the unique or the corona might get gummed up).



> The L1 do ping, but its not nearly as hearty of a ping as the L2. It is kind of a higher pitch, with a thinner timbre, and it is quieter, but it does make a distinctive noise (less so if it is covered in lacquer). Both the L1 and L2 are heavy (especially the larger sizes of the two), but its not a drag your pants down by the pockets heavy, just a "wow, thats heavy for a cigarette lighter" heavy.


I think I ruled out the L1 and the Gatsby because 1. if I am getting a dupont might as well get the one I want, and 2. I have heard the L1 is rather massive when compared to the other series.



> Ok, cool. That list is exactly in reverse order from what I was thinking... so we must be very near the same page:drinking:


Sorry that list wasn't in any particular order, if I had to list them I would say it is a three way tie right now between the corona, dunhill unique, and the rollagas with the dupont slighly behind because I can only get it from one place I can afford and the size/butane thing again.



> As for the ping noise, I can see why one might prefer a lighter that can be opperated silently, but if you open a ligne2 by grabbing the top of the lighter with your off hand, and keep hold of the lid while you control the speed of the opening, the L2 can be as silent as any other lighter. But dont forget and just plop it open in the deerstand (or wherever it is you were trying to be stealthy). That reminds me of one of my favorite dupont selling point - These are the easiest lighters to operate wearing oven mitts (although the rollalite is probably close). Not that you need to strike a lighter wearing oven mits, but I have never been forced to remove my gloves to operate my favorite L2 (although smoking wearing gloves/mitts is an entirely different subject). Also all the animals in your daily life will come to associate the ping of your lighter with you (its crazy sounding but it seems to be the case). When my neighbors dog gets riled up at the commotion I/we are making in the backyard just opening and closing my lighter frequently gets it to stop barking at me/us,its like hes all "oh, if its just ya'll I'll go do something else".


Lolz



> While I do not doubt the veracity of that statement I cannot confirm it either. However the unique is a reissue/replica (or modern version is probably most accurate) of previous dunhill lighters. Dunhill has been making liftarm designs with a wick that use "zippo" fluid (petrol) for a looong time. Some of the older ones even have swiss watch movements inlaid into the side of the lighter (so that your pocket lighter and pocket watch are both easier to keep track of in all the pockets of that three piece suit  . I have wondered more than once if thats how they made their connections with the swiss company that made (makes?) the rollalite and then subsequently the rollagas. I do not recall the designation of the older petrol lighter that looks like the unique, but it does have a parallel like the rollalite/rollagas are parallels.


great points, I guess what I was meaning to say is that the rollagas has been in production and popular I believe since the late 50s - present, the current flavor of the unique is based on a design from the 20s which apparently was in production but then reinvented in the 80s to what we have now, which a competitor offers a strinkingly similar option for much less money (damn logic and reason)...I could find rationale for the rollagas given its unique style, but the unique to me unfortunately isn't that unique and thus rationalizing the big spendy price is a bit of a challenge, especially when I have had a number of owners of the uniqe and the corona say they would exit stage left and pocket the cash...

well let me know if you see the link for the video and hopefully someday our post count matters


----------



## Enlil (Jun 10, 2010)

Mathew J said:


> Hey Enlil, so guess we haven't learned out lesson on monster posts yet, the irony is that I still don't have the ability to link images or html yet...


Sorry, I didnt mean to tease you like that, I am an old dog, and unlikely to pick up the trick of writing short posts.:lol:



Mathew J said:


> I got a better picture of what the lighter looks like. Really amazed though about the community and how someone would take their time to do a review like that so quickly.


Yeah, that lighter he has in the review is nice looking alright. I also saw an interesting contrast that he really likes that lighter, but I suspect that he does not use it that often. I hope he can get half the satisfaction from that lighter that I have had from mine, but he is gonna have to use it overtime if he is to have any hope of catching up (satisfaction wise):biggrin:.



Mathew J said:


> one of the reasons I love items like this is that I work with technology that is obsolete in minutes, the timeless aspect of these items really is something I can admire.


I totally get you on this point. I carry fire and a knife everywhere I go. This is completely for my convenience, but the basic (even primal) nature of these two tools, and where we as a species (or world for that matter) would be without these is not lost on me. I dont carry them as an homage, but my lack of intention does not make it any less of a tribute.



Mathew J said:


> Wow truly amazing info


Thanks. I hope I remember it all correctly (and that I understood it all correctly in the first place too, I suppose).



Mathew J said:


> but then again what does history matter in the here and now times of disposable anything


Wow, I could wade in on that one, but I guess since we are actually talking about lighters I will let it go with this:
History is only important if you wish to make original mistakes.:biggrin:



Mathew J said:


> I always find balancing originality/history/and value a delicate act...depending on my interest in the item and desire determines which facet wins out.


That is a sticky wicket. I usually go for the best "originality", or maybe its "novelty" (in the sense of fresh and unexpected) for me really. An ingenious solution for something that had not yet been identified as a problem almost always draws my attention.



Mathew J said:


> I will look for the other cartier lighters and see what they are like, I only found a few sites selling them and didn't think to look on the official cartier page.


Hold the presses. I looked around for awhile earlier and I retract my recommendation for the Cartiers. That new design is terrible. If you do like the look of that lighter, wait for an upcoming opportunity, because they are gonna have to fire sale them after they come to their senses and discontinue them, cause nobodys gonna buy that thingu. I was confused and thought you were talking about the iteration before this new one (it is rounded on the front and back, but still square across the top). It has rings of metal at the bottom of the cap and I thought that was the one you were talking about. Its quality is fine, but I dont really like its looks, which just makes it more of a head-scratcher for me that they went even uglier for their next attempt.



Mathew J said:


> glancing over wikipedia it appears they have a number of points of origin...


I suspect that some of the confusion surrounding the subject of where which pen comes from is intentional (and has consumed a great deal of effort). I have no direct knowledge about Parkers origins (although my father has several 51's and such, from back in the day, and he was always a Parker fan), but I have wondered if Hero pens made their jump up to the majors after the sale of Parker to the french? Probably nothing there, but...



Mathew J said:


> Yeah my stream of consciousness way of typing doesn't help, I am back on lighters with the germans, amazed they haven't entered the fray, you'd think they could put down the steak knives for a second and focus on the flame.


It does seem like a glaring omission to me too. Probably more the steins fault than the cutlery though.



Mathew J said:


> it seems like $300 is the magic high spot for me and even thats a stretch... much the same way I am with pens and watches, though even there I have my max.


It sounds a reasonable request to find an excellent lighter that will serve well for a long time well within that price range.



Mathew J said:


> the rollagas because it is smaller, thinner


I didnt compare that point on the lighters, but I believe that you will find that if the Rollagas is any thinner than the oldboy it is a very small amount (although you were talking about the unique in the quote above). The L1 is Slightly thicker than the other two, but we are talking about "break out the calipers" close. The rollagas is smaller than the L1 really only on the one dimension. Although the L2 is heavier than the Rollagas, it is both shorter and thinner (the large ligne 2 that is). It is the thinness of the L2 that makes it my favorite for pocket carry.



Mathew J said:


> has a cool tech gadgety feel to it with the easy access adjuster and the crazy hydraulic cap, plus the easy access fill port.


Yeah, the hydraulic cylinder looking part is darn cool, but there is something about the minimalist "form follows ONLY function" design of the flint mechanism and gas "spout" that kinda leaves me a little flat. Just my opinion though. The cap for the fill mechanism or the Rollagas is the coolest thing in the lighter world. I also like the easy flame adjustment "on the fly" and the fact that there are two provisions to adjust flame height so that the range of the one flame height adjustment screw can be modified (or set) by the other flame height adjustment screw. I think there is potential for problems there, but I have never messed with the adjuster on the bottom that you need a tool to change, since everything has been working wherever it was set when I received it.



Mathew J said:


> I can pling it and know that it will be heard


It isnt really THAT loud, and nobody knows what the sound means (maybe a very select few), so although that description sounds great, I find that I am the only person in nearly any room that appreciates my lighter. Its ok that no one knows, to me, but dont let the marketing guy convince you that "everyone knows the sound of a high quality lighter when they hear it". Seriously, animals take the most notice of it. I am an animal lover and I know a cat(s) that will come over to hang out with me in several of the outdoor smoking areas that I visit, based on them knowing I am around thanks to my "ping" lighter. I suppose that they may know its me by other means, but they cant know from the smell of my smoke since they approach from upwind as often as not.



Mathew J said:


> also something about the big rectangle looks good


Feels good in the hand too, IMHO.



Mathew J said:


> but I am curious as to how annoying it would be to deal with this size/weight of something


The Heaviness is really subjective. While they are heavy compared to other cigarette lighters, they are not heavy compared to pocketknives (well full sized pocketknives anyway). But pocketknives are sturdy chunks of steel, so no one is surprised when they weigh more than a few grams.



Mathew J said:


> I have read a few who have said the Line 2 doesn't work well for daily duty


:hmm: That part doesnt compute for me. What other duty do they conjecture it does work well for? Or maybe they say this because they may leave their daily carry lighter on a bar somewhere? That would be tragic beyond comprehension, but it would not make the lighter unsuited. I disagree with the assessment, but cannot address that particular criticism unless you can elaborate their point.



Mathew J said:


> wheras I feel either of the Dunhills are more pocketable (though many say the exposed bits of the unique or the corona might get gummed up).


This sounds like a fair point. Probably a large Ligne1 would be a comparable lump (and weight) to 2 Rollagas lighters. I can see wanting to get that other half of the pocket space freed up, but that extra space is almost all gas can (or fuel reserves).



Mathew J said:


> I think I ruled out the L1 and the Gatsby because 1. if I am getting a dupont might as well get the one I want, and 2. I have heard the L1 is rather massive when compared to the other series.
> 
> That #1 hit the nail on the head. If you are gonna part with the cash, be honest with yourself, and get the one that you really want, not the one some guy somewhere behind some keyboard talked you into:biggrin:. #2 is accurate too, but I addressed that above.
> 
> ...


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## Mathew J (Jul 2, 2010)

Hey Enlil,

So I am going to take a step back on the quoting and try and be as broad as I can as it is getting to be a bit much for me to keep up with 

I didn't take your points about monster posts personally, just thought it was on point and funny...

I agree, the lighter he showed looked nice but also like it hadn't seen much use in nearly 2 years of ownership, though to be fair I don't think whatever I buy will be used much either, carried often just not "used" as I am not a regular smoker.

I tried to find that older cartier and while I think I found a few sites that showed images I am not certain it is what you were talking about, either way they don't seem to sell them any longer and instead just have the new model which it seems neither of us like.

I get what you mean about minimalist design, many for years have argued that point with watch clasps from a certain brand (of which I am an owner) and only recently did they "upgrade" to something that seemingly fit their price, with Dupont I don't feel this is the case, rather their design is simple but well made (when speaking of the cap hinge), but I still think the piston arm on the Dunhill looks interesting even if it is a less reliable design.

As for the Line 2 and daily use I think the majority of the comments I read had something to do with the weight of it combined with its box like larger shape taking up took much realestate in their pocket and feeling uncomfortable, though if I had a Dupont I would make room for it 

As for me I think I am down now to either the Unique or the Rollagas with the Rollagas being the frontrunner, mainly because it looks more robust and I can get a pretty good deal on it from one retailer (not sure why their price is so low but won't question it only $100 off the Unique with $200 off the Rollagas) the only issue I have now are flints, have to check and see if a local place stocks them as I don't want to buy something and then have to mail order parts as if thats the case I might as well look back at Dupont again.

On another board someone recommended the Xikar pipeline or something but in looking at it I don't think it is at the quality level of the Corona let alone the Dunhills, but it is a bit cheaper. Amazed at how many "Unique" style lighters are out there now, wonder if a patent expired or something.


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## Enlil (Jun 10, 2010)

I am sure that the Rollagas is an excellent lighter that has served its owners well for a long time. It is not my first choice among the lighters that we have been discussing, but tastes are an individual thing, and it is certainly always on my list of "top 10 best lighters of all time" (depending on which day I make the list it frequently rounds out the top 5 list, but it can show up as low as #7 of all time on my list).

Since you are planning to carry the lighter you choose in your pocket, I would give extra weight to the enclosed cap of the Rollagas. I like the oldboy style, but I have had that style of lighter leak all its gas harmlessly into my pocket because the liftarm is not secured closed (there is some spring tension keeping the mechanism closed, but not as much as on the other designs). It is the sort of thing that can go completely unnoticed untill you need/want the lighter, and discover it already open in the bottom of your pocket when you reach in to pull it out.

There is a part of me that is saddened at the thought of the reviewer in that video not using his Corona lighter very often (althought that part of me was happy for him having a chance to fondle it during the filming of his review). I can understand owning something so nice that you are "afraid" to use it, but I would incourage that fellow to enjoy what he has during the time that he is blessed to have it. The perfectly polished underside of the lighter reflected the light well and looked beautiful, but it seemed to me that there should be some good shelf wear scratches on the bottom of that lighter.:2 Maybe I am just projecting though.

So I followed suit by not quoting (though it was very hard for me:biggrin and hope I hit all the major points.

Oh yeah, the patents expiring thing. That is probably exactly what happened as that design is soooo old. I suppose it is even possible that Corona had to wait for the dunhill patents to expire before they made a butane fired homage lighter, and then that Dunhill had to wait for those patents to expire before they could "reissue" the "Unique" as a non-petrol design.:hmm:

I havent really mentioned it in the other posts, but watch out for too good a price on any of these lighters. The Rollagas has been/is being faked. Usually the prices on the fakes makes them a dead give away, but caution should be exercised. When I went to look on Dunhills official webpage the other night, I had a good chuckle at some of the recent cosmetic updates they have made to their lighters to thwart the knockoff industry, but I fear that what they are doing will only make it more difficult to spot the real ones.:spy:


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## Mathew J (Jul 2, 2010)

Enlil said:


> I am sure that the Rollagas is an excellent lighter that has served its owners well for a long time. It is not my first choice among the lighters that we have been discussing, but tastes are an individual thing, and it is certainly always on my list of "top 10 best lighters of all time" (depending on which day I make the list it frequently rounds out the top 5 list, but it can show up as low as #7 of all time on my list).
> 
> Since you are planning to carry the lighter you choose in your pocket, I would give extra weight to the enclosed cap of the Rollagas. I like the oldboy style, but I have had that style of lighter leak all its gas harmlessly into my pocket because the liftarm is not secured closed (there is some spring tension keeping the mechanism closed, but not as much as on the other designs). It is the sort of thing that can go completely unnoticed untill you need/want the lighter, and discover it already open in the bottom of your pocket when you reach in to pull it out.
> 
> ...


Hey Enlil, thanks, don't know if it is bad form here but I plan on buying from cupojoes.com, supposedly the largest dunihll dealer in the US and in pipe forums they seem to get alot of praise so I am confident that it is legit, the other sites which sell Dunhill either don't get back to me or seem very sketchy FWIW.

I would post links to the two in question but .....

Also the two negs for the rollagas for me are the weird flints they speak of and the need for an adapter to fill but supposedly this comes with higher end butane cans, seems like the unqiue just uses the regular can nozzle.

Not sure about the updates on the page you speak of as I was just there and looked like any other product page to me, with digital images of products instead of the real deal (always hate that) and alot of sizzle with little steak.

Really it comes down to the availability of Dunhill or other good flints as it seems like the one for the rollagas is unique, if I cannot get parts for it then I am going to seriously reconsider and instead most likely go with the corona as no sense in buying something I have to mail order a $2 part for.

Thanks again.


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## Enlil (Jun 10, 2010)

You are correct that you will need to get special flints for the Dunhills. Do you know off hand if this lighter is the red or blue flints? (I always have to dig that stuff up when the times come). I will check when I get a chance, but if memory serves me the dunhill flints are an odd length (kinda long) and an odd diameter (kinda thick) so that other flints which may be the correct hardness are too small, and will tend to bind in the hole because they wont stay on axis. Although it does seem like a pain to get such a small item online and have to pay shipping, I think thats the best bet. A pack of flints usually has quite a few of them in it, and they do last for a long time, and it is an excuse to reinforce the tobacco supply (if you have to pay the shipping charges anyway:evil

An adapter for the dunhill filler valve does come included with some of the better butane bottles, and although its not as easy as filling a lighter that does not need an adapter, it is not that much harder. Definitely easier than filling the red bottle duponts.

I have done business with cupojoes before, although it has been a long time, and I am fairly confident that all the items they advertise are authentic. Some online places that sell only lighters I am less sure about, but the guys you are thinking seem on the up and up to me. I went to see their selection and they do have an impressive selection, so I am rooting for you to get to 30posts so that you can show me which contenders are at the top of your list.


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## Mathew J (Jul 2, 2010)

Hey thanks, 

So I guess I will pony up for the flints at the time of purchsae and save myself the hassle of getting them later, and I think the rollagas uses the red, though my friend with his says he just uses ronson.

as for the options, it was always the same finish in any of them "silver barley" so either the rollagas, unique, or the corona.

And the flints are another thing pushing me to the Unique style as it seems to use standard style flints though I am sure the folks at dunhill feel that their flints are the only ones to use.


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## Mathew J (Jul 2, 2010)

Hey Enlil,

If you're still out there I got the lighter today....

Really fast service considering I paid for it not two days ago and it was sent UPS ground, my only gripe was they left it right in front of my door so I didn't know it came, and I didn't get a tracking number.

As for the lighter itself it is a little different than my friends Rollagas, specifically this one doesn't have the adjustment on the side of it, rather just one adjustment on the bottom like the ST. Duponts.

A part of me prefers this design as you don't need any adapter so it seems for the butane, there is no cover to deal with down there for filling, and there is less I presume to break...but I was expecting the little knob on the back for whatever reason (some pics on the net show this model with, others without though I didn't pay attention to them)

The lighter appears pristine, I think the only thing anyone did with it was roll the wheel as there was a little "blech" that cleaned right up around the flint wheel (I wish I could post pics)

The only "flaw" was on the inside of the cap near the top, looked like a scratch or whatever from manufacturing which tarnished but that is on the inside and this was made to be used.

Overall it seems nice, still haven't filled it up yet as I am waiting for the newness to wear off. Once I hit the magic number I will post some pics on here.


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## Enlil (Jun 10, 2010)

Sry, 'bout the drop off of correspondence. Its one of those things for me, that I cant notify anyone when the cat is scheduled to be away. :cowboyic9:

Thats a little odd that they dropped the convenient flame adjuster (although I always kinda scratched my head that there were redundant controls on the old configuration). If it were my call I would have done away with the one on the bottom, but it sounds like they redesigned to make it easier to use. But it is a red-flag for me if the new adjuster looks like something on a dupont, I would definitely like to see a pic of that.

A redesign of the fill mechanism sounds good to me too. The little plastic adapters work ok, mostly, but not having to mess around with them is much more convenient. Thats one of the things I really like about the oldboy, it is very easy to refill, no adapters, very little spillage, that lighter never sits very long before I gas it back up.

I didnt quite get the belch part. When you first "struck" the flint mechanism did a bunch of flint dust fly out? You mention that it has not been gassed up yet. I would probably get around to that sooner rather than later, just to make sure that the seals will hold pressure of a full tank, and that the system will flow the proper amount of butane for fire, so that if something is not right you can start making noise about it early (because the warranty period may be very brief, although dunhill is not the notorious worst offender in this respect).


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## Mathew J (Jul 2, 2010)

Enlil said:


> Sry, 'bout the drop off of correspondence. Its one of those things for me, that I cant notify anyone when the cat is scheduled to be away. :cowboyic9:
> 
> Thats a little odd that they dropped the convenient flame adjuster (although I always kinda scratched my head that there were redundant controls on the old configuration). If it were my call I would have done away with the one on the bottom, but it sounds like they redesigned to make it easier to use. But it is a red-flag for me if the new adjuster looks like something on a dupont, I would definitely like to see a pic of that.
> 
> ...


Right,

So just my luck it doesn't seem to be holding butane, I fill it and test it out and it seems ok, let it sit a few hours and when I come back it is completely drained and only puts up a small small flame if anything.

Tried 4 times now, each the same result, follow the instructions to the letter and my Xtend isnt like this so I figure there is something wrong with the seals.

I believe the warranty is 24 months, however I emailed cupojoes (Eric) to see if there is anything he can do with either a suggestion or hopefully a replacement.

One thing I did notice was if I let it sit for ten minutes or so with the cap closed and then tried to light it I would get like a "belch" of flame, I thought intially it was no big deal but now I am guessing it is dumping butane rapidly.

And yeah, the new system is pretty simple to refill, much like the Oldboy...do a search for rollagas 2 on google and under images it is the first picture for the filling/adjusting system.

Well I'll keep you posted on how this pans out.

Thanks


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## Enlil (Jun 10, 2010)

That sounds like the lighter may be filling up the cap by running butane even while its closed, so that there is an excess of butane available to combust when it is freshly opened.

That is a bummer. I will be interested to hear how the vendor and/or manufacturer respond to your problem.


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## Mathew J (Jul 2, 2010)

Enlil said:


> That sounds like the lighter may be filling up the cap by running butane even while its closed, so that there is an excess of butane available to combust when it is freshly opened.
> 
> That is a bummer. I will be interested to hear how the vendor and/or manufacturer respond to your problem.


Thanks, I just notice now the vendor states on their website that they do not accept lighter returns and instead point you to the manufacturer warranty, however I would hope in a case such as this an exception is made given that it didn't even work out of the door.

I emailed him updating of the status and looking for assistance, I will let you know what happens, just stinks as not a good entry into nice lighters.


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## Enlil (Jun 10, 2010)

Yeah, you kind of expect some problems when dealing with vintage lighters, but buying a new one, especially at these price ranges, it seems completely unreasonable to have to deal with a problem lighter.

I hope cupojoes will take care of it for you, but I have never had to deal with sending anything back to them , so I dunno how they are in that respect.


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## Mathew J (Jul 2, 2010)

Hey,

Yeah he wrote back and suggested bleeding the tank and also tightening the flame height adjuster...will try again tonight.


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## Enlil (Jun 10, 2010)

Any updates on your situation?

The trick of purging and refilling can help with some lighter problems, but I suspect that it wont help with the problem that you are describing, although it cannot hurt to try just to make sure.

I would be interested to hear how things get handled by the vendor, and I should hope that they will make you whole, as you helped them move a unit from a shelf that probably dosent see a lot of movement, and they surely made a pretty penny (or more likely some 5 digit number of pretty pennies) from the sale, and that should take care of lot of "Customer Support" man hours.

If you do have to fall back on Dunhill warranty service, I would be fascinated to hear details regarding that experience as well.

I hope things work out ok for you, but if they dont, let us hear about it so that we can use the microphone here to get the word out. Definately you have already added an arrow or two to my quiver, as I am quite surprised that a dunhill lighter did not work ROTT. I now wonder if some of the less functional lighters in my "vintage" collection may have given their previous owners the kind of service that you have so far recieved from yours.


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## Mathew J (Jul 2, 2010)

Hey Enlil,

So I did two things, I informed the seller that the bleed didn't work and I also contacted Dunhill direct to see should things not work out what my options would be....

Dunhill informed me that their routine service which could repair this type of a thing costs upwards of $90 (ouch), they said that since I didn't buy direct from them the best they could do is an in warranty repair and their stance was I should go back to the vendor as it was purchased new and shouldn't leak.

While I was trading email with Dunhill I got an email from cupojoes saying that they would test and send me a new lighter and that I should send mine back to them, I wrote back saying no problem and then also adding that if replacing the Rollagas was an issue I would be open to the unique instead. Last I checked the lighter was still on its way to them (shipped it out on Friday)

I gotta say I am really pleased with the service so far from COJs, but time will tell if everything works out, I presume they are testing the replacement to verify that it works and also to verify that it isn't end user error on my part 

With the lighter not working out of the gate, yeah not a real confidence builder but I guess it could happen to the best of them, maybe?

What got me was that Dunhill direct at first didn't just offer a replacement nor did they make any mention of warranty coverage, instead it was automatically a $90 fee, only after I mentioned warranty did they say it would be covered for free.

Really seems interesting, I rememeber when I bought pens in the past they all came with free warranty for life and the companies would bend over backwards to make customers happy, seems nowadays these companies charge for everything and make consumers fight for anything and everything.

I will update as soon as I get the new lighter or word from COJs


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## Enlil (Jun 10, 2010)

That is good to hear the coj is going to make it right. That seems to me the way it should be handled.

I bet dunhill started from the position of non warranty repair, because the problem you described seems like the kind of problem that you should expect to develop over the next couple of decades of constant use. They were probably surprised that a new lighter might have that symptom, or assumed that the lighter has been improperly refilled, blowing out the seals (and very possibly voiding the warranty).

I wouldnt lose too much confidence in a "brand" over a "new" lighter having a "bad" seal in the system (assuming that the seal went bad may even be a stretch, since it is very possible it was overlooked in the assembly process, and may have a missing seal instead of a bad one). Sometimes seals just dont live up to their specs, and sometimes a "new" luxury item turns out to have been manufactured quite some distance into the past and might be more accurately be described as "NOS" (but that wouldnt be the most attractive marketing technique).

Warranties are a good thing (of course) on the chance that you need them, but I have become very skeptical of companies that are, in my estimation, too "Warranty Dependant". You used pens as your example, but Knife manufacturers are more heavily represented in my experiences on this part of the topic. In the past the warranty was a marketing device used to reassure a customer that the high price of the item would not be a total loss if the item did not work up to the manufacturers expectations, but recently the target has been moving more towards an area where a manufacturer uses the warranty (and the end-user) as a replacement for "Quality Control". I personally feel condescended to when a salesperson blows off questions I have about durability, by pointing to the warranty service ("when it breaks, just send it back to them, and they will take care of it for you"). I do not care to spend my time awaiting the arrival of whichever subsequent unit finally lives up to their (or my) expectations, most particularly if I have laid out a significant chunk of change for the item. If a pen breaks and wont continue to do its job, thats not a big deal for me (BTW I have never had to deal with servicing a pen that was younger than I), but when a knife breaks (or its safety comes apart...) that is a horse of a different color. I do not want a knife from a manufacturer that has legendary warranty service; I want a knife from a manufacturer that makes an unbreakable tool, 1000% overbuilt, one that no actual person has ever "seen" a singular malfunction of similar units (even if there is a persistent rumor that one did break once, just no one knows who was wielding it at the time).

For me lighters fall in between these two categories, but I do consider my lighter to be "SERE" equipment (just remember to open it carefully with both hands if you're still in the "evade" phase  ). It is nuts how overbuilt those Ligne2 lighters are, and I have never seen one that used to work, that doesnt still work today (there probably are some out there, but I have never heard anyone raise their hand and say "this one here that I got back then stopped working when I did like so"). You mentioned that some other dupont owner felt like their L2 was too heavy for daily carry, but that is a price I am willing to suffer for the brutal reliability of fire that springs forth EVERY time. The dang thing even runs out of gas and flint in the slowest, most predictable way, so that I am never surprised by its eventual refusal to light. It may be "really nice" and "easy on the eyes", but I love the thing because it is so overbuilt. I am not in the least bothered that they have that "old world" warranty just for appearances, not because you are going to need a warranty (and I suspect that is why they are so picky about not repairing one for free, because it would still work if the owner hadnt done that last whatever they did) but I presume you know something about this as you have a dupont torch already.

Well, that seems like it will be a good wall-o-text, and please excuse me for ranting (or rambling, whichever you may be more bothered by) about service departments. I look forward to hearing about the (hopefully) timely, and satisfactory, conclusion to your most recent foray into the deep end of the lighter pool.

One last thought though, get a tracking number and/or delivery confirmation on the malfunctioning lighter when you ship it out. Expensive lighters come up missing in the post more often than one might expect.


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## Mathew J (Jul 2, 2010)

Hey,

So I have heard that position before and I agree though I haven't ever felt as if it was an issue for me, maybe it is because I don't deal with knives yet and it seems there are alot more "new" players in that field vs other items in which the brands were more established.

What I was referring to were prestige or well regarded brands that used to have a very comprehensive warranty that now really don't and seemingly make products that aren't up to the same standards as their vintage counterpairts, in the pen world I would cite Montblank, Parker, Waterman, and a few others....all companies that used to be "ok" from an after sales service support to one in which you get a limited warranty on their product and now service is hit or miss (Montblanc is supposedly good but like Dunhill is comparatively expensive)

the only pen manufacturer that I can think of which still has a lifetime warranty is Cross, and overall their quality has remained constant, at least on their classic models.

As for the lighter I think that you're right, and I am very familiar with the concept of NOS, chances are it was a fluke and hopefully the replacement isn't as bad (shouldn't be though if tested)

I would be curious as to how one can improperly refill one of these though as it seems pretty straight forward given the nozzle fits only one way and it will only take so much gas but any info on this would be appreciated.

With the Duponts I got tat comment from a few owners of the Line 2s who weren't necessarily into lighters, their main issue was it took up some pocket realestate and now they relegate it to a desk lighter at home. Given their size and weight I could see how some might not want to carry that daily but they aren't that big. I got a chance to handle a Chinese lacquer one the other day and it was nice, did feel very well made.

As for the shipping thing, they suggested I use first class in a mailer but thats not how I roll with shipping, so boxed it up in the original packaging and used priority insured with delivery confirmation, don't want to take too many chances though it I was being super safe I would have used registered.

Thanks again and I'll let you know how it works out.


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## Mathew J (Jul 2, 2010)

Hey Enlil,

So apparently they got the lighter back, tested it and sure enough it leaked empty...so now I am the pickle of getting either the unique or the rollagas as they are offering either one...decisions decisions.


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## Enlil (Jun 10, 2010)

LOL, "just when you thought it was safe to go back into the water (dun-dun... dun-dun)"

In one of your earlier posts you mention that a coworker of yours has a dunhill that you had the opportunity to mess with. Was it a rollagas2 like the one that you have returned? I looked up the pictures and saw what you meant by the french style flame height adjuster, and the off center refill valve (with no cover). If the one your buddy has was the older style with the two adjusters and the covered and centered valve I would be interested to hear your thoughts about any other differences that you were able to notice. I do like the idea of the standardized valve, but I would have thought there would be some provision to cover it.

How much extra would you have to kick in for the unique again?:evil: Seriously though I think the rollagas will work better for everyday carry. I use my oldboy as a table lighter and the few times it has accidentally found its way into my pocket I have worried for its safety as it is terribly snag prone. The enclosed designs just fit the role of pocket lighters much better IMHO.



I have been wracking my brain for ways to improperly refill butane lighters. I have not come up with too many ideas, but I do have a few so far. Some of these are obviously a stretch, but you hear so much banter about the fact that improper refilling Can occur, and not all humans are equally savvy as to the operation of mechanical things, so I will go out on the limb and present what I have been able to imagine going wrong with a refill.

The valve on the lighter needs to be depressed on the axis of the valve. How forgiving are the valves concerning if the valve is depressed 15 degrees off axis? 35 degrees? With how much force? I think there could be a problem down this trail somewhere, but I am unwilling to conduct the experiment.

When compressed gasses expand they reduce the temperature of whatever surface they evaporated off of. A good temperature difference (say 20 degrees) can make a lighter much easier to refill because the compressed gas will "snuggle" down into the cooler lighter, or run away from the warmer butane canister. If you used the cooling effect of evaporation to "supercool" the lighter (by accident) then perhaps it would be possible to convince too much butane to fit in the lighter (since more butane will fit the cooler the container gets). Once the lighter comes back to room temperature the potential for overpressure seems to be lurking in the shadows. That potential for problems could be increased by locking said overfull lighter in the car during summer (or possibly it wouldnt even have to be overfull if you put it somewhere even warmer).

Some(?) lighters do not behave right if you do not adjust the flame height to the minimum position before refilling. I have experienced some unusual behavior from lighters that I forgot to set before refilling, but always (so far) the "problems" have been temporary (knock on wood), but I have not experimented to see what might happen if one of those lighters was refilled multiple times back to back without adjusting the flame height to minimum.

Purging the tank to be sure that there is no "air" in the tank is something that I do routinely in my refill ritual also, mostly because I am concerned how a (mostly) nitrogen bubble in the tank will affect the gas flow and/or pressures.


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## Mathew J (Jul 2, 2010)

Yeah it is never easy for me with these types of things...

I polled a few friends, family, and co workers and the majority would on looks alone go with the Unique whereas the lone holdout was my brother who preferred the Rollagas.

The guy I work with has an original Rollagas with the side adjuster and the cap for the fill port.

Between the two I personally feel the original Rollagas seems made better, as if there was more attention to detail. The one I breifly had was nice, but there were little things about it that didn't seem as nice as his...the cap was plain instead of having that circular stopper built in, the engraving on the bottom was very minimal in comparison to the original, and other things difficult to explain made his seem a little "nicer"...even when I look at images of the same lighter but one old and one new style I feel the older ones look a little "better" from a build quality standpoint.

The other thing I didn't like about the new style was there didn't seem to be any stop as to how far out you can unscrew the flame adjuster, when I was having trouble with the lighter I figured it might be a flame height issue and started to use the adjuster, while I didn't totally unscrew it the feeling was that had I kept going it would have come off.

As for the money thing, that was one of the reasons I went with the Rollagas, the Unique is $20 less, I emailed COJs asking if I would get some Mc Donalds gift cards or something to make up the difference between the two if I opted for the Unique, but the MSRP of the Rollagas is considerably more than the Unique which is why I figured for the cost the Rollagas was a better deal.

Thanks for the info on refilling, some of that I was aware of (purging) the other was new and very informative.

Oh well I will have to mull it over, love the look of the Rollagas as that is the style I always wanted but there are a few posts on the net about reliability espcially when compared to the Unique, and my experience with the new one didn't help much, read one thing about how a guy had his Rollagas serviced six times in a six year period whereas their Unique was fine....though the point you make aobut being in your pocket is one I thought about as well, that and why bother with the unique when I can also just get an old boy for cheap.


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## Mathew J (Jul 2, 2010)

Hey Enlil, well if you're still out there I gave it alot of thought and even with the experience on the Rollagas I had to go with that model again, something about the style, the fact that it has been made continuously since the 50s, and my perception of its exterior durability just kept pulling me back to it, after all I did always want a roller style lighter.

The nice thing is that Cup O Joes had filled and tested both a Unique and a Rollagas for the past week to verify that this wouldn't be a problem again, not to mention he is throwing in some free flints and butane so not a bad deal at all as it makes up for my shipping costs.

I'll update this when I get it with pictures hopefully at this point.


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## Mathew J (Jul 2, 2010)

So possibly my last update on this, I got the new lighter today, again very fast shipping on cupojoes part, and as promised it included a can of dunhill butane and some spare flints. The lighter lit right up on the first try and it is in nicer condition than the other as it doesn't have that defect under the cap, needless to say I am pleased, still want to test it longer but all in all looks awesome.

Truly top quality service at a comparative bargain when looking at other resellers and Eric really stood behind his product, nedless to say I am very impressed.


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