# Getting really sick of dry cigars



## StogieJim (Sep 18, 2010)

So I've been going at this a while now. Been using a 75qt coleman xtreme for the past 6 months. 

I've got a good 2 pounds of KL in there with a calibrated hygro at 62% RH year round.

Yesterday was a beautiful day out, so i busted out a UC Corona Viva.

Lit up and the center of the stick was cracked and peeling. THen I took my first puff. You guys that have been smoking a while know this taste well. That dry stale bitter taste. I tossed the stick at about the 30 minute mark, I couldn't take it any more.

Any suggestions? Ive got a LOT of dough invested in this collection. But my last few smokes have been dry and stale.....

Again, calibrated hygro, tons of beads, 62% all day every day.


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## Suzza (Mar 18, 2010)

I guess you just don't like your cigars at that RH. While most people on this forum seem to prefer 65% and under, that doesn't mean everyone likes them that way. Your personal tastes may just be for more moist cigars. Try bumping up the RH to 65% and see what you think of that. And if they still seem too dry go for 68%. But no higher than that.

Or maybe you hygrometer is just broken, and pretended to be calibrated even though it wasn't. I don't trust those things.


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## Suzza (Mar 18, 2010)

The cigars really shouldn't feel or taste "dry" at 62% so I'm thinking maybe there is an issue with your setup. They shouldn't be cracking apart either.


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## TJB (Dec 10, 2012)

I agree I'd try recalibrating your hygrometer after changing the battery. Maybe even purchase another one on the off chance it's not working right all together. If you invested a lot of money on your cigars another really good hygrometer will be worth it. Sorry about your situation. I agree with above 62-63 shouldn't be that dry. I prefer my sticks at 63-65% though.


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## Shemp75 (May 26, 2012)

yea, my sticks are still spongy and soft to the touch at 62%RH. your set up may need some tweaking.As others stated jack your RH up.


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## FireRunner (Jul 19, 2012)

My two cents.

From your avatar information you're in CO. That means the air is probably dry and cold correct? In this case I would say your RH is *waaay* too low. It should be at least 70. If your cigars are dry at 62 (which is too low in my opinion to begin with) increase it to 66 or 68. Wait two weeks and if that doesn't feel right move it up to 70 or 72. The great thing about *slowly* increasing/decreasing RH is it won't hurt the cigars.

Here in DC during the cold/dry air months we set our humidors to around 70-74. During late spring/summer/early fall it's set to 64-66.

It is also important to consider where your hygrometer is located. I can move my hygrometer around in our large humidor and get three different readings. In the end use your own feel. Don't always rely on machines to tell you if a cigar is in the right condition. If you roll it between your fingers and it's cracking like rice krispies then make adjustments.


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## tony (Feb 2, 2008)

Suzza said:


> The cigars really shouldn't feel or taste "dry" at 62% so I'm thinking maybe there is an issue with your setup. They shouldn't be cracking apart either.


agree


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## fiddlegrin (Feb 8, 2009)

Arrrrgh! :doh:
I'm sorry to hear that Jim...

But tothers have made some good suggestions here. I hope that things improve right away for your cigars good Sir :usa2:


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## StogieJim (Sep 18, 2010)

Thanks guys. I just sprayed the living hell out of my beads, hopefully that can get the RH up to around 67. I'll try and have another smoke this weekend. This is so damn frustrating sometimes! 

Henry, yea I'm in CO. My one year anniv of being here just happened last month. I come from Tampa, FL where 62 rh in the humidor is absolutely perfect. I didnt think any different out here. I mean 62 rh is 62 isnt it? can outside RH really affect a cigar that quickly? I mean within minutes?

The cigars arent cracking as I roll them LOL they're not THAT dry  But yea, the taste is what shows up first. That nasty dry cigar taste, you know what I'm talking about. And then I start noticing cracks, as the cigar heats up the cracks get worse. But yea there's def some cracking before lighting as well. 

Lets see if higher RH helps. I probably spiked humidity by spraying so much but its fine, I'll see where she's sitting tomorrow night as far as RH goes.

Thanks again everyone. 

Jim


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## Cmdio (Apr 30, 2012)

Are you storing your cigars in the cello?


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## HombreDeBarco (Mar 6, 2013)

I had a dry cigar last night. I tried to power through. No fun.


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## Isaac (Jan 3, 2013)

Cmdio said:


> Are you storing your cigars in the cello?


Oh nooo.....not again!!!!!!

:deadhorse:

I think the "cello vs no-cello" debate is 4 doors down on the left.....listen for the breaking furniture.....Make sure you go left because the door on the right is the "Gurkha Rules vs Gurkha Sucks" debate.

:lol:


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## CarnivorousPelican (Jan 25, 2013)

Isaac said:


> Oh nooo.....not again!!!!!!
> 
> :deadhorse:
> 
> ...


Make sure to not get trapped in the mixing beads thread either


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## Isaac (Jan 3, 2013)

CarnivorousPelican said:


> Make sure to not get trapped in the mixing beads thread either


I just had a mental picture of one of those ball pits that kids play in, except instead of being filled with plastic balls.....Its filled with Heartfelt beads!


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## CarnivorousPelican (Jan 25, 2013)

I am still confused on the mixing beads thing... The Cello deal I discovered for myself the pitfalls... anyways if you want your cigars to acclimate quicker take them out of the cello :ss


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## synergy012 (Mar 5, 2013)

Maybe try moving your hygrometer around and make sure the humidity is consistent throughout your cooler. Sometimes it's hard to get consistent humidity in these big boxes without circulating the air.


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## Suzza (Mar 18, 2010)

FireRunner said:


> My two cents.
> 
> From your avatar information you're in CO. That means the air is probably dry and cold correct? In this case I would say your RH is *waaay* too low. It should be at least 70. If your cigars are dry at 62 (which is too low in my opinion to begin with) increase it to 66 or 68. Wait two weeks and if that doesn't feel right move it up to 70 or 72. The great thing about *slowly* increasing/decreasing RH is it won't hurt the cigars.
> 
> ...


Why on earth would you change your storage RH based on season? The dryness of the season doesn't matter as long as you are able to maintain your humidor at the desired RH. Who cares if the RH outside is 20 percent as long as the RH inside the humidor is 65 percent? Cigars stored in a 65% humidor while the outside RH is 20% are exactly the same as cigars stored in a 65% humidor while the outside RH is 70%. The outside RH may effect the cigar's ability to reach the desired RH, but once it's there it's there. And if temperature is your concern, it shouldn't be. First off, his house probably isn't the same temperature as it is outside. And secondly, while temperature and RH are in fact related, minor temperature changes (such as those experienced in a house from season to season) have little to no effect on cigars in a closed environment. Here's a great post explaining it: http://www.cigarforums.net/forums/v...perature-impacting-rh-debate.html#post3808587

Bottom line is that you should store your cigars the same all year round.


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## dj1340 (Mar 30, 2009)

FireRunner said:


> My two cents.
> 
> From your avatar information you're in CO. That means the air is probably dry and cold correct? In this case I would say your RH is *waaay* too low. It should be at least 70. If your cigars are dry at 62 (which is too low in my opinion to begin with) increase it to 66 or 68. Wait two weeks and if that doesn't feel right move it up to 70 or 72. The great thing about *slowly* increasing/decreasing RH is it won't hurt the cigars.
> 
> ...


I don't really know if that is the issue or not. I keep my cigars in my basement where the average humidity is 40% All my humidors stay 
at 65% with no problem. I would take a look and see if your hygrometers are reading correct and humidor is tight. Should make no
difference what the outside humidity is.


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## Mante (Dec 25, 2009)

> Who cares if the RH outside is 20 percent as long as the RH inside the humidor is 65 percent?


Exactly! :thumb:



> Bottom line is that you should store your cigars the same all year round.


 Seems to work for me. Now, if only I could get the outside RH & Temp to behave as well as my humidors I'll be one happy little blunderbuss. LOL.

Read, think, learn. http://www.cigarforums.net/forums/vb/general-cigar-discussion/323504-fwiw-age-old-temperature-impacting-rh-debate.html#post3808587


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## FireRunner (Jul 19, 2012)

dj1340 said:


> I don't really know if that is the issue or not. I keep my cigars in my basement where the average humidity is 40% All my humidors stay
> at 65% with no problem. I would take a look and see if your hygrometers are reading correct and humidor is tight. Should make no
> difference what the outside humidity is.


We have three humidors which are exposed to the elements - so to speak. They are in an open area of our office where temperature change and weather outside impacts the climate inside. We use the hygrometers as guidelines only. I prefer to feel the cigar in my hand to determine if it's too dry or wet. I can easily say during winter and summer, the hygrometers read differently and the amount of care needed increases during winter months.

I know what you're saying but that only applies to humidors tucked away where the average temperature and humidity never change. We also have to take into consideration the type of humidor we are discussing. Two of our office humidors have glass. If the OP has RH of 62 and the cigars are bone dry and he lives in CO, it's easy to consider simply increasing the RH due to the altitude, temperature and lack of humidity.

Example 1: During summer and fall we have the hygrometers set at 66 (office). I can pick up a L'Atelier 54 and when rolling it between my fingers there are minimal cracking. Now, in November if the hygrometers is still set to 66 that same L'Atelier will crack much more when rolled between two fingers. My brother and I have been smoking since the early/mid 90s and in the end we prefer maintaining our cigars based on our eyes and feel instead of instruments.

Example 2: My brother has his personal humidor at home in his den where it's always cool and shaded from major sun. That humidor is set to 66 RH 365 days a year and it's fine.

My message, and personal opinion, is simply because cigars are in a box does not mean you ignore the exterior elements. Weather, temperature, humidity all matter and each cigar smoker should take into consideration their humidor surroundings. There is no "one right way" to care for cigars because weather is a true element to take into consideration.


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## Gdaddy (Sep 20, 2012)

I hate when people squeeze and 'roll' the cigar with their fingers. Molesting a cigar is no way to determine the proper moisture level. I don't allow anyone to touch my cigars. Look with your eyes not with your hands.


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## tony (Feb 2, 2008)

i have had this issue with a certain brand more than others. could have just been a bad box though.


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## FireRunner (Jul 19, 2012)

Gdaddy said:


> I hate when people squeeze and 'roll' the cigar with their fingers. Molesting a cigar is no way to determine the proper moisture level. I don't allow anyone to touch my cigars. Look with your eyes not with your hands.


There is no true way of telling if a cigar is in good condition by looks alone. Also, while personal taste is personal taste, I have never had an issue rolling my cigars between my fingers. Going to the extent of calling it "molesting" is a bit ridiculous. Rolling a cigar lightly between your fingers is a common technique to determine condition, humidity and overall construction quality.

Also, seeing as you are in Florida where the *average* humidity is 75 and in Washington DC where the average humidity is 64...things are different.


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## Gdaddy (Sep 20, 2012)

Since different brands are all different densities/firmness the method of squeezing or rolling is no way to gauge the moisture level or construction quality. 

If your cigars in Washington are 65% and my cigars in Florida are 65% they are the same. I don't care what the average humidity is outside the house it's what the RH is in the humidor that counts. By squeezing the cigar you are risking possible damage to the wrapper and that's why I don't want anyone to disturb my cigars.


Definition of molest:...1. To disturb, interfere with, or annoy.


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## Suzza (Mar 18, 2010)

FireRunner said:


> We have three humidors which are exposed to the elements - so to speak. They are in an open area of our office where temperature change and weather outside impacts the climate inside. We use the hygrometers as guidelines only. I prefer to feel the cigar in my hand to determine if it's too dry or wet. I can easily say during winter and summer, the hygrometers read differently and the amount of care needed increases during winter months.
> 
> I know what you're saying but that only applies to humidors tucked away where the average temperature and humidity never change. We also have to take into consideration the type of humidor we are discussing. Two of our office humidors have glass. If the OP has RH of 62 and the cigars are bone dry and he lives in CO, it's easy to consider simply increasing the RH due to the altitude, temperature and lack of humidity.
> 
> ...


The RH inside of the humidor is the RH inside of the humidor. The conditions outside don't matter.

But they're your cigars and you are certainly entitled to do with them what you please. If it works for you that's all that matters.

Also I agree that gently feeling your cigars is harmless. They aren't THAT delicate.


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## Gdaddy (Sep 20, 2012)

Suzza, I agree that you may do what you want with your cigars. However, it is disrespectful and down right rude to walk around in a commercial humidor squeezing the cigars that will be purchased by someone else. I don't want my Padron to be squeezed and fondled by someone else before I smoke it. Especially bad form when the cigar has no cellophane wrapper. Who knows where your fingers have been. Bad form.


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## KcJason1 (Oct 20, 2010)

StogieJim said:


> Thanks guys. I just sprayed the living hell out of my beads, hopefully that can get the RH up to around 67. I'll try and have another smoke this weekend. This is so damn frustrating sometimes!
> 
> Henry, yea I'm in CO. My one year anniv of being here just happened last month. I come from Tampa, FL where 62 rh in the humidor is absolutely perfect. I didnt think any different out here. I mean 62 rh is 62 isnt it? can outside RH really affect a cigar that quickly? I mean within minutes?
> 
> ...


Why in your first post does it state you have KL, yet in this post it says you sprayed your beads?


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## StogieJim (Sep 18, 2010)

Beads = KL as far as that wording is concerned 

I should have said sprayed KL, my bad! 

Seal is fine, the RH stays where it's supposed to. Drops a few points every couple weeks as there is NO RH around these parts. I give em a spray every couple of weeks and I'm good. 

All in Cello, well at least the ones that came with cello. That shouldn't matter, i've been hoarding cigars for a while now. This dry crap just started since moving here last year....

I sprayed and sprayed and sprayed, can't get it over 65....


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## StogieJim (Sep 18, 2010)

So after what seems to be a 1/4 gallon of DW on the KL, I've got her up to 66%. I'll try to hold that for a couple of weeks and see how the cigars smoke. It'll take time for them to get up to 66% but I know I won't be able to wait that long


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## Mante (Dec 25, 2009)

Gdaddy said:


> Suzza, I agree that you may do what you want with your cigars. However, it is disrespectful and down right rude to walk around in a commercial humidor squeezing the cigars that will be purchased by someone else. I don't want my Padron to be squeezed and fondled by someone else before I smoke it. Especially bad form when the cigar has no cellophane wrapper. Who knows where your fingers have been. Bad form.


Correct me please if I have missed something. My read of this thread is we are discussing cigars in an individual's humidor, not a B&M. :noidea:

The idea that this method is not worthy of our time is anathema to me as it is EXACTLY how I determine the smokeability of a cigar and I will trust the "feel" over an RH reading every time as it has never let me down, electronic devices have. Cigars are an organic medium & experience hence an organic method of analysis is very much warranted methinks.

Good luck Jim and you know we are all hoping you can get your cigars to a point that you sincerely enjoy them. :thumb:


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## Gdaddy (Sep 20, 2012)

Tashaz said:


> Correct me please if I have missed something. My read of this thread is we are discussing cigars in an individual's humidor, not a B&M. :noidea:
> 
> The idea that this method is not worthy of our time is anathema to me as it is EXACTLY how I determine the smokeability of a cigar and I will trust the "feel" over an RH reading every time as it has never let me down, electronic devices have. Cigars are an organic medium & experience hence an organic method of analysis is very much warranted methinks.
> 
> Good luck Jim and you know we are all hoping you can get your cigars to a point that you sincerely enjoy them. :thumb:


If you 'squeeze test' a cigar you run the risk of cracking the wrapper and ruining the cigar. Again , cigars come in all different densities. Too wet or too dry is really difficult if not impossible to judge by feel or touch. No other method is better than a properly calibrated hygrometer.

I was pointing out that 'squeezing' can become a rude and disrespectful habit when you leave the confines of your own humidor.


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## tony (Feb 2, 2008)

Gdaddy said:


> If you 'squeeze test' a cigar you run the risk of cracking the wrapper and ruining the cigar. Again , cigars come in all different densities. Too wet or too dry is really difficult if not impossible to judge by feel or touch. No other method is better than a properly calibrated hygrometer.
> 
> I was pointing out that 'squeezing' can become a rude and disrespectful habit when you leave the confines of your own humidor.


agree, its along the same lines of smelling them IMO


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## JamesM (Apr 3, 2013)

I also complain of dry cigars, I live in the north on lake Erie where it is very dry all winter long. What I do is keep a secondary humidor at a little higher RH. Cigars I will be smoking soon I keep there. BE CAREFUL you don't want to exceed 75% and don't leave cigars in there for long. Mold will grow quick and then you have to pitch the humidor and cigars.

I do agree it can be disrespectful to manhandle or molest cigars in a B&M, but its your purchase and many cigars are not maintained correctly in the humidors or in shipment. Just like you check your eggs at a grocery store before you buy them, I do check my cigars before I buy them.... I give a GENTLE squeeze. If the wrapper cracks from a little pressure... its a BAD cigar and I nor anyone else should be spending good money on it. You would not pay for bad eggs would you? Inform the shop owner of the issue and continue on.


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## Gdaddy (Sep 20, 2012)

You squeeze the eggs? really? 

I always check what the RH is in the humidor before I buy. Any reputable dealer keeps up on this.

If I bought a cigar that cracked open for any reason I would return it. Not a problem.

A dry cigar is a dry cigar...not a bad cigar. Once you squeeze it and crack it YOU will be the one who ruined it. Even properly humidified cigars can still fracture under a good squeeze from inexperienced fingers trying this method.

BTW... I've heard many times people remark that a cigar feels dry after they molest it... when in reality it was a perfect 68%. Some wrappers just feel that way.


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## Under A Mountain (May 24, 2007)

I squeeze cigars in a BM, and I also Squeeze the Charmin.


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## StogieJim (Sep 18, 2010)

This seems to have gotten a bit off topic. For the record, i don't "squeeze" my cigars. I know better. I also know a lot about the wrappers before I even touch them. So if I know they're thin, etc... before even touching them.

Anywho.... Still trying to keep the humi above 65%. Having a hell of a time. if I even open the cooler for 10 seconds all the dry air rushes in! It levels out, but always a point lower if I keep it open for a few minutes. All good, the test continues. Smoked one last night, it didnt taste nearly as dry as the UC corona viva did... but it was also on the other side of the cooler...

Tests continue


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## StogieJim (Sep 18, 2010)

Well i'm chalking this whole "dry" thing up to that particular stick. Smoked yet another stick today, perfection. Went back to the corona viva again, bleh, dry tasting, bitter. 

Maybe I got a bad batch who knows. Kinda sucks, but at least its not my whole stash. Just that vitola in general. Phew!!


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## StogieJim (Sep 18, 2010)

Everything has been going well since I started this post until today. I have a couple questions for you.

This morning it was nice out so I made a pot of coffee and pulled a NUB Cameroon that has been sitting on the very top tray in the humi for a while now. 

It was brittle and upon lighting cracked in like 6 places! It tasted fine so I smoked it but what a mess!

Does the top tray get rotated down in your guys' coolerdors? Im afraid not enough humidity is getting to the top of the cooler? Its a 75 qt coleman extreme. It was also stored in the tubo it came in... might that have been the reason?

Thanks for all the tips. All my other smokes up until today have been smoking great


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## jd123541 (Nov 14, 2012)

i also run a coolidor and was having all kinds of RH issues when I kept it in my basement, I could never get that perfect Rh. I tried KL and sprayed it up,bovida packs, had some success with just leaving a small cup of distilled water in there too. But when the temp fluctuated I had major issues. I moved everything upstairs and just use a pair of those gel humidifiers and Im happy to say Im at a constant 67% and my stogies are much happier.


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## 2COOL4U (May 22, 2013)

Why dose Xikar sell millions of there jars at 70% then ?
View attachment 78065


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## jeepman_su (Mar 8, 2012)

2COOL4U said:


> Why dose Xikar sell millions of there jars at 70% then ?
> View attachment 78065


The age old rule has always been 70% RH and 70 degrees F......

It is still the age old rule and one that is followed by a lot of people and usually what most people are taught when they get into cigars. Truth is it really amounts to personal taste in the end, there is no right answer. Xikar sells a million of those things because lots of people store their cigars at 70%. However as collections grow you look for other humidification sources. I personally do not like the gels because they are not two-way humidification. I also personally do not store my cigars at 70% RH.

Xikar sells millions of these because people like them it is that simple......HF Industries also sells tons and tons of 65% beads. I hope this answered your question.


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## Tika (Sep 20, 2012)

jd123541 said:


> i also run a coolidor and was having all kinds of RH issues when I kept it in my basement, I could never get that perfect Rh. I tried KL and sprayed it up,bovida packs, had some success with just leaving a small cup of distilled water in there too. But when the temp fluctuated I had major issues. I moved everything upstairs and just use a pair of those gel humidifiers and Im happy to say Im at a constant 67% and my stogies are much happier.


Have the same issue except I continue to keep them in the basement , but it is totally passive currently. They are all in the bathroom in the basement. There is only one window in the basement and it is in the main part, that is also running a dehumidifier, so the bathroom has essentially become a veritable humidor. I am getting readings of 66-67RH on the tile floor and 65RH on top of a chest of drawers. This has become my resting humidor as the room contains 4 coolers and some just sitting outside, but all coolers are open. Outside of this room, I have two proper handmade humidors with 65RH Boveda that carry my go-to sticks for daily smokes.

I believe I can run this passive system in the summer and then I think I need to seal everything up in the winter and move to an active system.

I am new to this cigar hobby and feel I have been struggling with getting a full grip on RH and I am approaching my anniversary in a couple of months or so.


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## Scott_TX (Mar 18, 2013)

StogieJim said:


> This morning it was nice out so I made a pot of coffee and pulled a NUB Cameroon that has been sitting on the very top tray in the humi for a while now.
> 
> It was brittle and upon lighting cracked in like 6 places! It tasted fine so I smoked it but what a mess!


Jim,

I have had the same issue with the NUB Cameroon's that I have. Finally just chalked it up to the Cameroon wrapper being very thin. Good luck and hope you get things back to normal soon.


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## StogieJim (Sep 18, 2010)

Yea things are back to normal Scott, thanks! That Cameroon scared me but I've had 5 of 6 sticks since then and all were perfect. Those cameroon wrapper REALLY thin....


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## Schecter30 (Dec 12, 2006)

62 seems a tad low. An airtight cooler should keep it higher with sufficient humidity. I don't use coolers thought so I'm not sure but 2 pounds sounds sufficient. Beads? gel jars? boveda packs?


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## StogieJim (Sep 18, 2010)

Maybe it's just being in Colorado who knows but spraying the KL once a week seems to do the trick


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## GoJohnnyGo (Nov 19, 2011)

I'm glad to see you got some resolve with this. I've got it pretty easy in the south east but have always wondered how keeping cigars would be in a drier climate. Thanks for updating the thread.


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## StogieJim (Sep 18, 2010)

Thanks John. Yea you've got it made in the Southeast! It's a mother out this way!

Everything seems to have settled down. The kicker.... I'm upgrading coolers next week, so its time to pray the seal on it is solid  Here we go again!


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