# A Call To Arms To Save Bombing On Puff!



## Guest (Dec 14, 2012)

Reference Smelvis' thread http://www.cigarforums.net/forums/vb/cigar-bombs/320571-howdy-please-angry-if-you-need.html

I completely agree that bombing has gotten out of control and has turned into something less than savory as a whole. I agree with everything that Dave said and have myself voiced the same sentiments over v-herf over the last several weeks as well.

The problem isn't with one person or one bombing group, but rather our community as a whole that has gotten complacent about the rules of bombing and Puff. One of the safeguards in place is that members must have 90 days and 100 posts to see addresses. This not only protects members' personal information, _it gives new Puffers time and ample opportunity to be exposed to and internalize the pure nature of bombing._ When new Puffers are being given addresses by others in order to circumnavigate these safeguards, we lose both of those protections. Surely not everyone actually needs a full 90 days to "get it," but it doesn't hurt to wait. The rules are in place for a reason, if we established members aren't respecting them, we should not expect new Puffers to feel compelled to do so.

Puffers, please for the sake of bombing, stop giving out addresses to new Puffers who haven't waited their 90 days! Also, when we see bombs being sent out by new members, we should be inquiring how they obtained the address. It's not just the mods' job to protect our community, it's a communal responsibility.

Groups, please do not admit members who cannot see addresses for themselves!

New Puffers, please do not take offense, I am not trying to belittle you guys. Be patient and wait out your time, if you are really itching to start bombing then start compiling a hit list and building up ordnance to send out after your probationary period is over.


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## phager (Jun 28, 2010)

I agree 100% with this. As I said in Dave's thread, we need to get back to what bombing was/is in the first place.


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## lostdog13 (Jan 16, 2012)

Well said gentlemen; RG for you both.


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## asmartbull (Aug 16, 2009)

Aaron
This is precisely why many seasoned members are taking their address's off their
profiles. It is sad when a few think the rules don't apply to them.
"Patience is a virtue"


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## johnmoss (Jun 18, 2010)

asmartbull said:


> Aaron
> This is precisely why many seasoned members are taking their address's off their
> profiles. It is sad when a few think the rules don't apply to them.
> "Patience is a virtue"


It's the reason I got a PO Box. Originally I took my address of, but was asked by a couple of friends and established members to put it back. So instead I got the PO Box. It's sad that Puff became a place where I had to worry about posting my home address. Until recently I NEVER gave it a second thought.


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## Brettanomyces (Jul 12, 2012)

On the topic of new members getting addresses, it may be helpful to remind everyone not to post pictures which include visible addresses on them when receiving bombs. Before my 90 days were up, I sent out some 8-10 bombs to different people. Not one of these addresses was given to me by another member. Some I received from bombs, PIFs, MAWs, that kind of thing. Many I found posted on the public forums, typed or in pictures. Remember, everyone can see those.

I'm not trying to claim that addresses aren't shared, especially amongst new members (my impression is that new members share addresses amongst themselves more than established members give them out, but I could be wrong). Of course it happens. But there are many, many other ways to get these addresses that aren't against the rules, and many people take advantage of those.

I haven't been around long enough to appreciate the older culture of bombing, so I can't comment on that, but I'm always happy to learn. I just wanted to post to make sure we all don't forget (I'm sure it's easy to do) that there are other ways many of us facilitate the distribution of addresses, whether it's intentional or not. My gut feeling is that (and I could be wrong on this - chime in if you feel my perception is askew), when a new member gets an address, the assumption by many is that rules have been broken somewhere. While in many cases that is true, in many cases it's not, and in any case I don't think it's fair to _assume_ anything in the absence of any evidence. Anyway, that's my $.02 on the matter, for whatever it may be worth.


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## Guest (Dec 14, 2012)

That's a great point Nick, I have seen pictures with address like you say myself. Sure there are ways to get addresses aside from breaking rules, but it's not exactly easy all the time, especially to get a specific target. Whether Puffers who can see addresses are giving them out freely, or newbies amongst themselves, passing out addresses without permission is forbidden though and we should really do our best to stop that. All it takes is someone to say, "Hey guys, that isn't cool, if nothing else then please ask first"


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## phager (Jun 28, 2010)

Brettanomyces said:


> I haven't been around long enough to appreciate the older culture of bombing, so I can't comment on that, but I'm always happy to learn.


For those interested in some of the old bombing culture start Here And go through some of the posts. There really seemed to be a lot less one upping of each other and reciprocal bombing, and a lot more "Here's some sticks I enjoy, maybe you'd like them as well".

And I'm not trying to single anyone person or group here, I think that we could learn a lot by revisiting the past on occasion, and learning and improve on it, as opposed to just going by the philosophy of if a little is good, a lot is better.


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## Oldmso54 (Jul 31, 2010)

Aaron - thanks for posting this thread.


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## stonecutter2 (Jul 12, 2012)

I guess I don't see a widespread bombing problem that requires bombing be "saved" on Puff, but I know that I haven't been around here very long and I'm probably missing something larger than I'm aware of (a bad trend of some sort). Things by and large seem to be just fine and well natured, with only occasional recent exceptions. I read the Bomb forum almost every day and I love seeing what people get, and the banter that can accompany them...I guess I've always assumed that it was all in good fun? 

I do certainly think that it's important that everyone respect the forum rules, as they're in place for a reason. 

As Nick said too, it's important that people be responsible with other's personal information when posting pics of bombs or PIFs or whatever.


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## Scott W. (Jul 10, 2008)

stonecutter2 said:


> I guess I don't see a widespread bombing problem that requires bombing be "saved" on Puff, but I know that *I haven't been around here very long and I'm probably missing something larger than I'm aware of* (a bad trend of some sort). Things by and large seem to be just fine and well natured, with only occasional recent exceptions. I read the Bomb forum almost every day and I love seeing what people get, and the banter that can accompany them...I guess I've always assumed that it was all in good fun?
> 
> I do certainly think that it's important that everyone respect the forum rules, as they're in place for a reason.
> 
> As Nick said too, it's important that people be responsible with other's personal information when posting pics of bombs or PIFs or whatever.


THis is precisely it


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## bpegler (Mar 30, 2006)

When we visit someone's home, we respect their rules. Respect is essential in a virtual community like Puff as well.

I hope everyone pays attention to this wonderful thread. It is the spirit behind many of our rules on Puff that is being broken. If someone can't respect the rules here, I would suggest finding another board, there are plenty out there, and some are unmoderated.

As for me, this is my home board. I really don't care much for bombing, but I have been known from time to time to make a gift to a friend here.

Thanks Aaron again for this thread.


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## Brettanomyces (Jul 12, 2012)

stonecutter2 said:


> As Nick said too, it's important that people be responsible with other's personal information when posting pics of bombs or PIFs or whatever.


Right, I think what I should have added is, if you want to post a pic of the box you were sent, perhaps to show how crazy big it is, or what kind of funny tape was used (hmmm...), edit the image to blur the addresses out. Or, even simpler, just place an object over the addresses, so you can see the "to" and "from" names, but nothing more.


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## David_ESM (May 11, 2011)

I think Aaron went a little dramatic with the title here, but I agree with the statement.

I don't think bombing needs to be saved, and I certainly don't think enforcing the current rule would save it if it needed it.

But this is definitely a good reminder that there are rules in place for reasons. Thanks Aaron.


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## Blaylock-cl (Apr 28, 2006)

A bit off topic but since this is getting lot's of viewing, I want to remind you that 'Trader Feedback should not be given out for bombings. These are not trades but rather gifts'.

It's written here: http://www.cigarforums.net/forums/vb/cigar-bombs/245893-all-about-bombing-please-read.html...(and (It's a sticky, which I assumed everyone would read)


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## jphank (Apr 29, 2012)

I gave out too much rep already today.

Thanks guys.


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## stonecutter2 (Jul 12, 2012)

scottw said:


> THis is precisely it


Fair enough.


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## StogieNinja (Jul 29, 2009)

David_ESM said:


> I think Aaron went a little dramatic with the title here, but I agree with the statement.
> 
> I don't think bombing needs to be saved, and I certainly don't think enforcing the current rule would save it if it needed it.
> 
> But this is definitely a good reminder that there are rules in place for reasons. Thanks Aaron.


This.

I posted a rather lengthy post (even for me) over in Dave's thread. While Aaron's post is certainly a great -and necessary- reminder, I think Dave's gets more at the heart of the problem, which is the attitude and method of the bombings of late. As GeeCar put it, the problem is "pointless bombing."

But, and I think this bears repeating, the problem also is a good one to have, because by and large, it means that Puff has fresh blood, that Puff is continuing to grow, that we have a lot of new members who are anxious -even desperate- to be involved in this wonderful community of ours.

So I think the question before us is not "how do we tone down the bombing", but "how do we better incorporate and educate our new members about Puff and what we stand for?"

I don't know as I have a good answer to the question yet, but it's certainly something I'm pondering.


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## szyzk (Nov 27, 2010)

Aninjaforallseasons said:


> So I think the question before us is not "how do we tone down the bombing", but "how do we better incorporate and educate our new members about Puff and what we stand for?"


Lead by example.

If someone joins the board today and spends his next 90 days reading about bombs being nothing more than a gift between friends, he'll walk into his 91st day with a completely different attitude than he would after reading 90 days worth of one-upmanship threads. It's very easy to get caught up in the mayhem but we have to take a cue from the guys who've been holding down this fort & pass along proper decorum to those who are coming along now.


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## kapathy (Nov 20, 2010)

Hooray its our quarterly bombing is ruining puff thread. We've all been over this time and time and time again. You don't want newer members to get addresses...block access to the bomb forum till 90....why give access to a part they cannot participate in? Have I given an address no, would I no. But I also know there are many ways to get address'. As far as the one upmanship.... its just nature of the device. As friendships grow stronger and finances gets a little more lenient you tend to have a little more fun with your bombs. I've sent some stupid big bombs, I've received some stupid big bombs, Ive bantered for days in the bomb threads. I agree bombing is not for everyone, and it does suck for those people when they click new posts and its all bomb shit...maybe an option to choose which sub forums you want to see and which to block.... I don't know I'm computer stupid and I don't know how hard that would be to implement. Just my opinion whatever its worth.... unfortunately I don't think that anything will change until the actual structure changes....


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## szyzk (Nov 27, 2010)

kapathy said:


> block access to the bomb forum till 90....why give access to a part they cannot participate in?


I've said this before, and I think it's a great idea.


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## StogieNinja (Jul 29, 2009)

szyzk said:


> Lead by example.
> 
> If someone joins the board today and spends his next 90 days reading about bombs being nothing more than a gift between friends, he'll walk into his 91st day with a completely different attitude than he would after reading 90 days worth of one-upmanship threads. It's very easy to get caught up in the mayhem but we have to take a cue from the guys who've been holding down this fort & pass along proper decorum to those who are coming along now.


Well said, and certainly something I will take to heart, Andrew!Thanks.

Unfortunately, I have to spread rg around before I can hit you again. Someone help me out!



kapathy said:


> You don't want newer members to get addresses...block access to the bomb forum till 90....





szyzk said:


> I've said this before, and I think it's a great idea.


Honestly, I agree. We do this with the Habanos forum so that new folks understand this is a privilege to participate in, and to help them get acquainted with the community at large before they get exposed to, and subsequently involved in, a potentially dicier side of things.

Make the bombing forum a 100 post/90 day thing. They can still participate in the NST which is in the Noob forum, and the PIF/Passes, which are in a separate Cigars on the Move subforum. So they can become familiar with the ideas of "Pay it Forward" before they're ever exposed to the bombing.


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## Guest (Dec 14, 2012)

kapathy said:


> block access to the bomb forum till 90....why give access to a part they cannot participate in?


That is definitely something to consider


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## teedles915 (Jun 18, 2009)

Here it is from my perspective....

The meaning of a bomb for most seems to have been lost long ago. When I first came on to the board people sent out bombs for a reason those reasons might include but are not limited to.....

They know they share a similar palate with some one and wanted to share a cigar they had found.
They had a friend that was down on their luck and needed a lift.
They saw a post of had some other sort of interaction with a BOTL, where that person states that they would love to try a cigar, so they send it to them.

There was rarely a thread calling out that person, a warning thread with a DC number, a brag about how bad they were going to blow said person up, or even a hint that they were sending out the package. Many times (I have sent and received "gifts" this way) the sender even asked for the package contents not to be posted becasue they do not want the recognition. All this was done because it wasn't a competition to see how many cigars could be sent, how many people could be "blown up," or to garner attention in a smack talking thread about how awesome their group is. It was simply about giving a cigar to a person as a gift from your heart, nothing more.

I sent and received bombs long before my 90 days was up here. But there is an easy way to do it, simply pm the person and say something like "hey I have a cigar i would love for you to try, would you mind giving me your address?" This gives that person the oppurtunity to simply give their address, or politely decline as they do not want their address out there to newer members that they do not know.

I have no issue with bombing in and of its self. I take issue when people feel the need to show boat and brag about what they are sending, and how bad ass there bombing group is and how much the other ones suck. This IS NOT in the spirit of gift giving (which is what a bomb is) if someone were to act like that at your family Christmas dinner then it would be in bad taste and insulting. Well my friends i believe it is insulting and in bad taste here as well. When I buy someone a gift in my family I try my best to pick out something they will like, not just get the biggest present i can find so it looks good to everyone around. Bombing should be the same way. 

T.W.


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## skfr518 (Jul 4, 2011)

I vote for blocked from the bombing threads for first 90 days as well. Good idea for the first time ever Kevin


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## jphank (Apr 29, 2012)

i cant agree with a bomb forum ban. where else will people post what they did get bombed if there's no place to post what they got?


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## ggcadc (Sep 29, 2012)

As someone pre-90 days, I think a ban isnt a bad idea. maybe not 90 days, maybe 30 or 60, just to get some time to watch whats going on before interacting. I think the rules and time limits are what attracted me to this forum, it seems secure and structured and I respect that. Theres nothing attractive to me about putting my address on the internet anywhere, however with the safeguards this forum provides, it seemed like a good compromise for what kind of access I got to other BOTLs.


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## David_ESM (May 11, 2011)

jphank said:


> i cant agree with a bomb forum ban. where else will people post what they did get bombed if there's no place to post what they got?


This.

You can't block the bomb forum for people under 90 posts 100 days because they still RECEIVE bombs and need a place to post them.


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## [OT] Loki (May 24, 2006)

same as it ever was....


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## MarkC (Jul 4, 2009)

David_ESM said:


> This.
> 
> You can't block the bomb forum for people under 90 posts 100 days because they still RECEIVE bombs and need a place to post them.


See, that's the problem. Why do they need to post them? Why not just thank the sender in a PM? Is bombing a practice to share, or for the bomber to bask in public glory?


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## Feldenak (Aug 15, 2012)

As a member of the newest bombing group formed, I can't help but feel like I'm in the crosshairs here. It started with the accusations that we were merely soliciting bombs for ourselves (which was incredibly insulting BTW) and now I feel as if we're being made a scapegoat for some issues that have been bubbling under the surface for awhile. Did that "introductory" thread go over the top? It sure did, but us newbs weren't alone in pushing that thread over the line.

Bombs are a gift, there's absolutely no need to get your knickers in a twist over someone dropping a few sticks in your lap and wishing you a nice day. If you consider getting a random package of cigars as "pointless bombing" let me know, and I'll make sure to not bother sending you anything. I'll move on to someone else and brighten their day. Honestly, the angst in this thread and smelvis' thread is just about as over the top as the MWM/M&M/Hyena introduction thread. Have a cigar and lighten up people.

/mini-rant


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## kapathy (Nov 20, 2010)

90days not a point of blood and their first born. Personally I don't care either way... either some thing changes or we're keep seeing this same thread pop up with the same people making the sane comments and nothing happens


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## David_ESM (May 11, 2011)

MarkC said:


> See, that's the problem. Why do they need to post them? Why not just thank the sender in a PM? Is bombing a practice to share, or for the bomber to bask in public glory?


It is a problem to recognize someone for doing a good deed?

I love posting the bombs I receive and making sure the sender gets some recognition. They made my day, sometimes my whole week or month. Many of them have become very good friends of mine. Has nothing to do whether they want to bask in some sort of glory or not.

It is my decision to let other people know that someone did something that I think deserves recognition.

In the end, if it is something someone else doesn't care for, that is their issue, and it can be solved by simply not looking at the post.


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## CigarShop (Oct 16, 2012)

After seeing what happened today in CT. isn't all this bickering really trivial??


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## skfr518 (Jul 4, 2011)

Bask in public glory? I am starting to get pissed off with this stuff. If I choose to torment a friend and post about how I am going to destroy him/her its because they deserve it and I am doing it out of the kindness of my heart. When I bomb someone it is because they are a great BOTL or SOTL and have done great things on this board. By me posting about sending them a bomb I hope that people will start to look at why that person is getting something and they are not. Hopefully they will learn to be more like that member.


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## Brettanomyces (Jul 12, 2012)

MarkC said:


> See, that's the problem. Why do they need to post them? Why not just thank the sender in a PM? Is bombing a practice to share, or for the bomber to bask in public glory?


Since we've started the analogy to Christmas presents (which isn't a bad one, btw), when you get a particularly nice present, do you keep it a secret or tell your friends. What do most people do? Is it wrong for them to do that, whatever it is?


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## MarkC (Jul 4, 2009)

David_ESM said:


> It is a problem to recognize someone for doing a good deed?
> 
> I love posting the bombs I receive and making sure the sender gets some recognition. They made my day, sometimes my whole week or month. Many of them have become very good friends of mine. Has nothing to do whether they want to bask in some sort of glory or not.
> 
> ...


Let's not lose track of the discussion; my post was in response to your suggestion that new members NEEDED to post when they got bombs, not that no one should be posting bomb threads. Obviously, such a rule change wouldn't affect your posts.


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## MarkC (Jul 4, 2009)

Brettanomyces said:


> Since we've started the analogy to Christmas presents (which isn't a bad one, btw), when you get a particularly nice present, do you keep it a secret or tell your friends. What do most people do? Is it wrong for them to do that, whatever it is?


No, nothing wrong with it at all. I just don't feel it should be a consideration in the decision on whether or not to delay access to the bombing threads.


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## David_ESM (May 11, 2011)

MarkC said:


> Let's not lose track of the discussion; my post was in response to your suggestion that new members NEEDED to post when they got bombs, not that no one should be posting bomb threads. Obviously, such a rule change wouldn't affect your posts.


Maybe a little confusion on the way I worded my post.

I wasn't saying people NEEDED to post bombs they received. I was saying people NEED a place to put the posts they were deciding to make.

Otherwise you will simply have the bombs posted in general chat. And if people are complaining about seeing bombs in their "new post" feed they certainly will lose their minds when they have to deal with seeing them outside the bomb forum.


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## smelvis (Sep 7, 2009)

Why start a new thread, hard to jump back and forth but good points.


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## Brettanomyces (Jul 12, 2012)

MarkC said:


> No, nothing wrong with it at all. I just don't feel it should be a consideration in the decision on whether or not to delay access to the bombing threads.


I guess my point was, in many cases, bomb reports are posted not for the glory of the bomber, but to share in the gift itself and the excitement of the one bombed. Why take that away?


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## phager (Jun 28, 2010)

We seem to be getting a bit of spillover between this and Dave's thread. I don't think (And this is my opinion, here) anyone is suggesting _never_ post bombing announcements, I just said that _I_ was planning on toning down _my_ announcements. What someone else chooses to do is their own choice, and frankly I do love reading some of the announcements. I certainly have no problem with the bomb receipt being publicly acknowledge, that's just good cigar pron  .

I sent Nick a long PM that was more in depth about my feelings on the is subject, and particularly MWMs involvement in it. I let him decide if he wishes to share the content of that or not. I have no problem with it. I try not to say anything that I can't or won't back up publicly.

The issue of newer members is a touchy one, I liked the idea of 30 days as a member. Frequently (but not always) it takes that long to start to make the assessment of a persons character on the forum, as such, they would likely not receive a bomb to report, if they do, as Mark said, PMs would be sufficient there. In addition, if that were the rule, if someone sent a bomb to someone under 30 days, well, the bomber would know that a public acknowledgement wouldn't be forthcoming, and there would be know acknowledgement.

Again Just my opinion (again) on the subject.


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## MarkC (Jul 4, 2009)

Brettanomyces said:


> I guess my point was, in many cases, bomb reports are posted not for the glory of the bomber, but to share in the gift itself and the excitement of the one bombed. Why take that away?


I agree, in many (I would say most) cases what you say is true. In some, however, it's not. And it's not taking anything away, it's just delaying it until newbies get their feet wet and have a sense of what's going on around here. People don't stay new posters forever, you know.


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## Scott W. (Jul 10, 2008)

skfr518 said:


> Bask in public glory? I am starting to get pissed off with this stuff. If I choose to torment a friend and post about how I am going to destroy him/her its because they deserve it and I am doing it out of the kindness of my heart. When I bomb someone it is because they are a great BOTL or SOTL and have done great things on this board. By me posting about sending them a bomb I hope that people will start to look at why that person is getting something and they are not. Hopefully they will learn to be more like that member.


OK, I am going to stick my head in and chime in for a second because 1: No one should be getting pissed off here and 2: I know Brad and believe he is an extremely generous and caring BOTL on this board so.......

Brad, you bring up a good point about why you make your announcements and I have to say, you understand what "gifting" or Bombing is about. You single people out based on either your personal relationship or their contribution to the board. That's OK and is kinda the way you should determine your targets (but to each his own). The thing that I think rubs my crotch the wrong way about the ridiculously large amount of the "hey I'm bombing someone" threads is that many of the posters of the content haven't been around long enough to even get an address the proper way let alone forge any relationships or opinions about other members when it comes to the quality of their contribution etc. That is why I think a lot of people a viewing it as an attempt to "bask in the public glory". I'm not saying that's correct, but I am agreeing with why some feel that way. Back in the day, I would single a new guy out and send them a package of a couple smokes but also with a letter stating for them to keep the gift between us because it was no ones business what I did with my cigars but nowadays people like showing the damage which is also OK, just preference. I don't want to get off track with my original point which is this: understand why we gift cigars and / or other things. If you are gifting in the spirit in which it is meant, you should take no offense to any of this. The constant DC# threads and shit talk threads is getting very old though. If you, because of reading some of these recent posts, now understand the true nature of gifting something to another BOTL or SOTL, then good, learning new things is a positive thing. If you are gifting/bombing for reasons outside of the brotherly spirit of it, no one can stop you, but in the end, you will simply be remembered as a schmuck who gave all his cigars away.

My 2 cents..........no offense to anyones feelings or intentions.


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## skfr518 (Jul 4, 2011)

Great point Scott


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## Stradawhovious (Oct 17, 2012)

As a Noob here who can't help but feel partly responsible for this.... um.... whatever it is going on in these threads, I think I need to chime in. To be fair my actions were based on what I felt was the Norm by watching and learning. As a result it seems I have, in part, been branded as "that guy" in "that group" for doing what is just now coming to light to me as what is considered to be taboo. In addition, I (the group) have endured passive aggressive comments, not-so-passive aggressive comments, and what I can only assume was a thinly veiled attempt at an assault on my personal email account. I could be wrong about that last one, but doubt it.

Kind of off putting to a Noob.

Remember, my introduction to the bombing forum was 100+ pages of relentless shit talk, ridicule, memes and relentless shit talk. (yeah, I'm aware I said it twice) But in spite of all that, at no point was I in this for glory, grandstanding or return fire. I just thought it sounded like fun, and that was my template as to what "the norm" was for bombing here.

As far as seeing addresses? Well, it's kind of hard to take a rule seriously that is A: not enforced, and B: seemingly, willingly, and wantonly broken by quite a large number of participants on a regular basis. *I guarantee you that it will not happen again from me*........ keep in mind though that these addresses are visible to EVERYONE when there is a photo of a shipping box put up here, and your address is readily available to everyone via whitepages.com when you put your first/last name and city in your profile.

Not sure if this helps the situation, but it is my observation. That said, I will back off from participating in the bombing threads for a while and go lay by my dish.

And yes, I realize this problem is forum wide, not just me or the MWMs. You can see how the timing would make me a bit self consious about it though......


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## stonecutter2 (Jul 12, 2012)

jphank said:


> i cant agree with a bomb forum ban. where else will people post what they did get bombed if there's no place to post what they got?


I got a Welcome to Puff bomb from Shuckins, and even though he's bombed countless people, it still felt very special. I agree, blocking it from new people would sort of distance them from the community more than benefit them.


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## Brettanomyces (Jul 12, 2012)

MarkC said:


> I agree, in many (I would say most) cases what you say is true. In some, however, it's not. And it's not taking anything away, it's just delaying it until newbies get their feet wet and have a sense of what's going on around here. People don't stay new posters forever, you know.


But will they have to wait 90 days to post reports of all the bombs they receive in that initial time? I think it is taking away something from that subset of the community. Maybe a shorter period would be more agreeable...15 or 30 days, or something. I don't know. It's also my gut reaction that this, by itself, won't really do much to change the culture, but I could be very wrong about that. I'm still quite new myself.


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## CigarGoogler (Sep 23, 2012)

Stradawhovious said:


> As a Noob here who can't help but feel partly responsible for this.... um.... whatever it is going on in these threads, I think I need to chime in. To be fair my actions were based on what I felt was the Norm by watching and learning. As a result it seems I have, in part, been branded as "that guy" in "that group" for doing what is just now coming to light to me as what is considered to be taboo. In addition, I (the group) have endured passive aggressive comments, not-so-passive aggressive comments, and what I can only assume was a thinly veiled attempt at an assault on my personal email account. I could be wrong about that last one, but doubt it.
> 
> Kind of off putting to a Noob.
> 
> ...


This. This. This.

In addition, I want to add that I think it is a bit presumptiuous of anyone to make assumptions as to the motivations of another person. You could look at my crap talk and recent bomb and come to the "basking in the public glory" conclusion, but personally, I think that is condescending and--more importantly--WRONG. Perhaps, someone just likes to talk smack with like-minded folks and is also very generous (wait...that is me to a T-revyn). As a new member who is making a concerted effort to get to know you, get involved in the various aspects of this community, and contribute, it is off-putting that someone would decide to pass judgment on my intentions based solely on his or her own misperceptions and assumptions. Want to know my motivation? Ask me! I'll tell you.

I'm not afraid to say that I am a really nice guy, who is very giving, and truly enjoys being a contributing member of a community, such as this. I like to talk smack, I try to keep it respectable and reasonable, and I find a large amount of success getting to know people the way that I am. Those of you have messaged with me--and even now met me in person--will attest to that and would like be perturbed if someone suggested that my motivations were anything other than showing some love and having some fun while learning a ton.

All that said, I respect that there is a tradition on this forum and I love the sentiment of that tradition. As Dan explained, show us noobs some respect as we navigate where we fit in this community. I'm not here to piss you off or ruin your playground. I'm here because I think it is awesome and want to take part. I really appreciate the thoughts that some of you who have been here a while have shared, and I respect you for saying it. I respect you even more for giving me the space to find my place here as well.


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## CigarShop (Oct 16, 2012)

When I started here in Puff 10/16, I did the NoobPIF and one other NOOB trade. Then I ventured into the "big boy" rooms.
My suggestion is why not when a Noob signs on and they have proven to be here for the right reasons, not just free cigars then a FOG or someone "mentor" them.
About bombing and the MWMs, well I feel many of my members have been singled out due to my foolishness last week. That was/is wrong. If anyone has an issue with me or any other Puff member why not just PM that person and discuss your issues in private. I'd wager many differences will be worked out.


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## Tritones (Jun 23, 2010)

stonecutter2 said:


> I haven't been around here very long and I'm probably missing something larger than I'm aware of





scottw said:


> THis is precisely it





stonecutter2 said:


> Fair enough.


My hat is off to you, sir - very classy post.


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## Tritones (Jun 23, 2010)

BTW - I hope everyone is catching on to this whole "I saw the address in a picture" aspect. Maybe not the best plan to post pictures with legible addresses?

I seem to remember some guys in Washington who couldn't even post discernible pictures of their cigars. Maybe we all need to borrow their cameras.


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## StogieNinja (Jul 29, 2009)

Brettanomyces said:


> But will they have to wait 90 days to post reports of all the bombs they receive in that initial time? I think it is taking away something from that subset of the community. Maybe a shorter period would be more agreeable...15 or 30 days, or something. I don't know. It's also my gut reaction that this, by itself, won't really do much to change the culture, but I could be very wrong about that. I'm still quite new myself.


A very simple solution is to just add a sticky thread in the Noob forum, where noobs could post any welcome packages they've received from FOGs.

I do feel that perhaps a slower introduction to the bombing culture, and having that introduction occur after one has gotten to know the Puff community already, would seriously help alleviate some of the issues being raised by the FOGs.



Tritones said:


> BTW - I hope everyone is catching on to this whole "I saw the address in a picture" aspect. Maybe not the best plan to post pictures with legible addresses?
> 
> I seem to remember some guys in Washington who couldn't even post discernible pictures of their cigars. Maybe we all need to borrow their cameras.


Hey now! That wasn't us, that was Kipp, formerly Captain Ass of the ZK.


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## Blaylock-cl (Apr 28, 2006)

stonecutter2 said:


> I got a Welcome to Puff bomb from Shuckins, and even though he's bombed countless people, it still felt very special. I agree, blocking it from new people would sort of distance them from the community more than benefit them.


So many of us have felt the 'welcoming' generosity of several fine BOTLs, like Ron!

A heartfelt note of Thanks, by pm, is another great way to express one's appreciation.


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## Tritones (Jun 23, 2010)

CigarGoogler said:


> All that said, I respect that there is a tradition on this forum and I love the sentiment of that tradition. As Dan explained, show us noobs some respect as we navigate where we fit in this community. I'm not here to piss you off or ruin your playground. I'm here because I think it is awesome and want to take part. I really appreciate the thoughts that some of you who have been here a while have shared, and I respect you for saying it. I respect you even more for giving me the space to find my place here as well.


With all due respect - and I mean that sincerely - you really haven't been here long enough to know what the tradition is. Believe me, it makes me glad to see that you recognize it exists, and that gives me every hope that you will stick it out, follow it up, and find it out. Believe me also when I say I'm still learning the tradition of this place. Respect is earned. Many, if not most, people who join Puff do so because of the wealth of information found here. That wealth was forged over time by generous, experienced people. They have earned respect by simply building this place. As newcomers, we have the burden of offering respect first and hoping for its return second. And it's a bit unfair to newcomers, maybe, especially those who already know a bit about the hobby. And sometimes FOGs abuse their perceived privilege. And nothing is perfect. If Puff were perfect, it would stop being perfect when the second member joined.

BTW - epic signature!


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## CigarGoogler (Sep 23, 2012)

Tritones said:


> With all due respect - and I mean that sincerely - you really haven't been here long enough to know what the tradition is. Believe me, it makes me glad to see that you recognize it exists, and that gives me every hope that you will stick it out, follow it up, and find it out. Believe me also when I say I'm still learning the tradition of this place. Respect is earned. Many, if not most, people who join Puff do so because of the wealth of information found here. That wealth was forged over time by generous, experienced people. They have earned respect by simply building this place. As newcomers, we have the burden of offering respect first and hoping for its return second. And it's a bit unfair to newcomers, maybe, especially those who already know a bit about the hobby. And sometimes FOGs abuse their perceived privilege. And nothing is perfect. If Puff were perfect, it would stop being perfect when the second member joined.
> 
> BTW - epic signature!


I appreciate your point of view, sincerely. Thanks for sharing it, and please know that I agree with you. The only place where I believe respect is a right--and the point I was trying to make, in part--was that it is disrespectful to make assumptions about someone's motivations and then rail about them.

Taking a moment to reflect that others have different values, to share the tradition (which, by the way, is what I felt that many in this and the other similar thread are doing) for those of us who are learning is one of the things that makes many of the folks on this forum special to me; however, I would place the emphasis on taking a moment to reflect and then to share, rather than to assume and pass judgment.

Regadless, I lurked for a while before joining, and even took some time before posting very much to learn a bit. I am still new and none of this discussion will result in my leaving. In fact, I'm taking part in the discussion because I am investing my time, thoughts, and a bit of myself into this community. Discussion is always good!

Also, thank you for the compliment...it's funny because it is true.


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## mjohnsoniii (Sep 9, 2007)

kapathy said:


> ...*block access to the bomb forum till 90*....why give access to a part they cannot participate in?














Aninjaforallseasons said:


> ...I have to spread rg around before I can hit you again. *Someone help me out!*


Gotcha Karate Squid!!!



jphank said:


> i cant agree with a bomb forum ban. where else will people post what they did get bombed if there's no place to post what they got?


Jess, they can still post what they received, it just won't be in the Bomb forum section. And everyone can still see what has happened in the Today's Posts drop down.


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## stonecutter2 (Jul 12, 2012)

Blaylock said:


> So many of us have felt the 'welcoming' generosity of several fine BOTLs, like Ron!
> 
> A heartfelt note of Thanks, by pm, is another great way to express one's appreciation.


Yep, I PM'd him to thank him, too!

It's not that I felt I had to post in the Bombs section that I got bombed, but it seemed like the place it would go. And being welcomed so warmly was the kind of thing I felt like sharing.


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## stonecutter2 (Jul 12, 2012)

Stradawhovious said:


> And yes, I realize this problem is forum wide, not just me or the MWMs. You can see how the timing would make me a bit self consious about it though......


My understanding at this point is that we're simply the latest incarnation of some reciprocating problem.

Our intro thread was mocked mercilessly - we even had people posting DC's in there before we did, to mock us more. And that was unsolicited. Somehow it seems that got morphed into how the thread was started to get bombs for the members...though the bombs and DC's were unsolicited and voluntarily sent from the veteran members (which I noobishly understood to simply be good natured hazing....apparently it was not to some?).

The tone of the thread was really the problem, from the start. It was instantly polarizing.

I joined the MwM's after seeing how merciless some of the hazing was. Thinking it was good natured, and me being from the Midwest, I wanted to send a couple bombs to members to show some respect for their obviously mature bombing group. One of these members has now removed their address from their profile. I sincerely hope that my bomb was not taken as being "pointless" or not in the "true nature of bombing." Nothing could be further from the truth.

I sent some cigars to some vets who took part in picking on the new guys, to say "hey thanks for the hazing." I did not stipulate as much in my note because I was suffering from one of the worst colds i've ever had and simply wanted to get things sent their way (it had been days since posting the DCs - just the DC's without smack talk - in your thread actually). My note was minimalist but not disrespectful.

I really hope my sticks weren't assumed to be something bad. Because I meant them to be sent in good spirits. I even threw some sticks in for the troops.

I agree with your hesitance in continued participation around the bombing area. I just wonder how much of what is erupting lately is from false assumptions, and I hope that I haven't caused problems that were not my intention.


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## MarkC (Jul 4, 2009)

Speaking of assumptions, I know it's natural when something like this pops up for a newbie to think "are they talking about me?", but you shouldn't. Mike, I'm sure your sticks were received in exactly the way you intended. It's more about a trend than the actions of any one person, I think. But maybe that's an assumption...


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## bpegler (Mar 30, 2006)

Mike, I always appreciate your well worded posts. The good news is that we have so many thoughtful, respectful members.

So many well thought out posts in this thread...



Tritones said:


> With all due respect - and I mean that sincerely - you really haven't been here long enough to know what the tradition is. Believe me, it makes me glad to see that you recognize it exists, and that gives me every hope that you will stick it out, follow it up, and find it out. Believe me also when I say I'm still learning the tradition of this place. Respect is earned. Many, if not most, people who join Puff do so because of the wealth of information found here. That wealth was forged over time by generous, experienced people. They have earned respect by simply building this place. As newcomers, we have the burden of offering respect first and hoping for its return second. And it's a bit unfair to newcomers, maybe, especially those who already know a bit about the hobby. And sometimes FOGs abuse their perceived privilege. And nothing is perfect. If Puff were perfect, it would stop being perfect when the second member joined.
> 
> BTW - epic signature!


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## jphank (Apr 29, 2012)

mjohnsoniii said:


> Jess, they can still post what they received, it just won't be in the Bomb forum section. And everyone can still see what has happened in the Today's Posts drop down.


That's part of my point. Why not keep everything in one place where it's always been?

Not many of you have met me in person. I'd give you the shirt off my back if you needed it. It's a pretty big shirt, though  When new people come to my club, I buy 'em a beer, give 'em a shot of my favorite beverage, a stick, or even share information they're hungry for. It's a privilege to share that same way of thinking here with my Puff friends. Sure, I've trash talked, and I've been asked to join multiple bombing groups, but I'm choosing to keep it low-key and in a good spirit for me. Was I being "blackmailed" to bomb Shuckins because I forgot my lighter at a herf? Sure, but I chose not to play -- it's not what bombing is about.

Being in a community that "gifts" and shares such an amazing hobby is what surprised me about this forum. I've been involved in BBS type things since the mid 90s, and no community I've ever been a part of has been so generous. I felt, and still do, that this place is a giving place.

This is a bump in the road, but by no means an "end" to bombing. I think it's a healthy conversation to reshape what's happening, but don't think about ending because of this.


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## Scott W. (Jul 10, 2008)

jphank said:


> That's part of my point. Why not keep everything in one place where it's always been?
> 
> Not many of you have met me in person. I'd give you the shirt off my back if you needed it. It's a pretty big shirt, though  When new people come to my club, I buy 'em a beer, give 'em a shot of my favorite beverage, a stick, or even share information they're hungry for. It's a privilege to share that same way of thinking here with my Puff friends. Sure, I've trash talked, and I've been asked to join multiple bombing groups, but I'm choosing to keep it low-key and in a good spirit for me. Was I being "blackmailed" to bomb Shuckins because I forgot my lighter at a herf? Sure, but I chose not to play -- it's not what bombing is about.
> 
> ...


Well put Jess.


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## CigarGoogler (Sep 23, 2012)

jphank said:


> Being in a community that "gifts" and shares such an amazing hobby is what surprised me about this forum. I've been involved in BBS type things since the mid 90s, and no community I've ever been a part of has been so generous. I felt, and still do, that this place is a giving place.


Exactly. Truly amazing. Kudos to Puff and _all_ of the personalities that make it what it is. If our biggest, collective "argument" is about people sending others free stuff...we are getting something right.


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## joshuarodger (Jun 20, 2012)

In my mind there is absolutely nothing wrong with the "current state of bombing." I wasn't here 3,4, and 5 years ago, before bombing became "classless." I lurked on these boards for months before joining. Guess why I joined? 2 reasons:

1. To expand my knowledge of cigars.
2. To participate in the bombing forum.

Not necessarily because I wanted to get bombed, but to fully participate. To be part of what looked like a daily display of generosity, hilarity, and togetherness. I have no idea what the "tradition" is and frankly, the traditions weren't why I joined. I didn't join because of what the old traditions were. I joined because of what was and still is happening. That being said, I would be lying if I said that I didn't want to be bombed. That was definitely a part of the reason I quit lurking. Is anyone here sorry that I joined? Have I in any way besmirched the Puff.com family? Haven't I been a decent BOTL?

I will always remember the sticks that Ron sent me. He gave me my first CC. That was exactly why I joined. Not to get free cigars, but to try _new_ cigars.


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## Mante (Dec 25, 2009)

joshuarodger said:


> In my mind there is absolutely nothing wrong with the "current state of bombing." I wasn't here 3,4, and 5 years ago, before bombing became "classless."
> 
> I have no idea what the "tradition" is and frankly, I don't really care. I didn't join because of what the old traditions were. I joined because of what was and still is happening. That being said, I would be lying if I said that I didn't want to be bombed. That was definitely a part of the reason I quit lurking. Is anyone here sorry that I joined? Have I in any way besmirched the Puff.com family? Haven't I been a decent BOTL?
> 
> I will always remember the sticks that Ron sent me. He gave me my first CC. That was exactly why I joined. Not to get free cigars, but to try _new_ cigars.


Since Mike always words his musing much better than I here is what he recently posted (paraphrased) in reply to another. Maybe you should read it & try to understand the intent of what is being expressed in these threads.



Tritones said:


> With all due respect - and I mean that sincerely - you really haven't been here long enough to know what the tradition is. Believe me also when I say I'm still learning the tradition of this place. Respect is earned. Many, if not most, people who join Puff do so because of the wealth of information found here. That wealth was forged over time by generous, experienced people. They have earned respect by simply building this place. As newcomers, we have the burden of offering respect first and hoping for its return second. And it's a bit unfair to newcomers, maybe, especially those who already know a bit about the hobby. And sometimes FOGs abuse their perceived privilege. And nothing is perfect. If Puff were perfect, it would stop being perfect when the second member joined.


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## joshuarodger (Jun 20, 2012)

Thanks for posting that in response to me, Warren. I will readily admit that I didn't read every single post in this thread but I did actually read that one and don't disagree. And I removed the "I don't care" probably while you were posting. It wasn't the message I wanted to convey. I do care about tradition. It's very important to me. What I wanted to convey was that I wanted to participate in what was going on and was unaware that it isn't what has always happened. I enjoy what's happening now and hope it continues that way.

I respect you as a tremendous BOTL here, Warren (along with many others in this thread), and hope that my poor wording didn't offend any of you. It wasn't my intent to disrespect anybody on here but to give a (hopefully) different and my honest opinion. 


EDIT: Re-edited last post to be less abrasive.


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## Mante (Dec 25, 2009)

joshuarodger said:


> Thanks for posting that in response to me, Warren. I will readily admit that I didn't read every single post in this thread but I did actually read that one and don't disagree. And I removed the "I don't care" probably while you were posting. It wasn't the message I wanted to convey. I do care about tradition. It's very important to me. What I wanted to convey was that I wanted to participate in what was going on and was unaware that it isn't what has always happened. I enjoy what's happening now and hope it continues that way.
> 
> I respect you as a tremendous BOTL here, Warren (along with many others in this thread), and hope that my poor wording didn't offend any of you. It wasn't my intent to disrespect anybody on here but to give a (hopefully) different and my honest opinion.
> 
> EDIT: Re-edited last post to be less abrasive.


There was no offence taken on my part Josh, some of us are trying to convey our feelings is all & would hope everyone remains polite. No one is getting called out here and that is as it should be. :thumb:


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## Cigar Noob (May 22, 2011)

Aninjaforallseasons said:


> Honestly, I agree. We do this with the Habanos forum so that new folks understand this is a privilege to participate in, and to help them get acquainted with the community at large before they get exposed to, and subsequently involved in, a potentially dicier side of things.


The funny thing is, the habanos section is completely different in all aspects. The regular section is fun, light hearted, people interacting and joking around and the Habanos section is a complete 180. In fact I would have been more prepared for it on day 1 prior to getting used to all the comraderie in the regular part of the forum. Let's not forget the thread that was all about restricting access even more... 



David_ESM said:


> You can't block the bomb forum for people under 90 posts 100 days because they still RECEIVE bombs and need a place to post them.


This



MarkC said:


> See, that's the problem. Why do they need to post them? Why not just thank the sender in a PM? Is bombing a practice to share, or for the bomber to bask in public glory?


I think people posting up 500 word reviews is much more in the spirit of "bask in the public glory" than someone sending free crap to someone.



Feldenak said:


> As a member of the newest bombing group formed, I can't help but feel like I'm in the crosshairs here. It started with the accusations that we were merely *soliciting bombs* for ourselves (which was incredibly insulting BTW) and now I feel as if we're being made a scapegoat for some issues that have been bubbling under the surface for awhile.
> /mini-rant


I agree with alot of what you wrote, just wanted to reply to one part. I know a lot of the jabs may have been unfounded but on more than one post I saw someone asking about retaliating. That can come off looking bad, rather the just a little smack talk.



smelvis said:


> Why start a new thread, hard to jump back and forth but good points.


I've been asking myself this for 3 pages. Never understood why people start a thread that is a direct response to an existing one.


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## meatcake (Mar 3, 2012)

Wow, this is turning into quite the high school debate here. 
It is pretty simple.

Think about why you bomb.....If it is for one of the following reasons, you're good
1. Bomb a friend some smokes he might like: CHECK
2. Bomb someone you respect as a thank you for all they do on the site (or even in real life): CHECK
3: Bomb a noob, as a welcome to the site, hope you stick around and learn, grow and smoke with us: CHECK

If you bomb for any of these reasons...STOP BOMBING NOW!!
1. Bomb a well establish member who is part of a bombing crew with anticipation of being blown up in return 10 fold. 
2. Bomb a noob and rub it in his face that he can't see your address to bomb him back with a well placed "Neener Neener, you're a Weiner" in the bomb letter. 
3. Bomb someone that made fun of you or made you mad with something mean like a dead animal or broken glass.

It's not rocket science. I don't think that bombing has become classless at all. I think the bombs are all landing with grace as gifts of appreciation and joy. 
Me personally, I bomb to make someone's day and I honestly don't care what anyone here thinks about the bomb I sent. I care that I made that persons day. Do I post up a DC, sure, it's part of the fun. The anticipation of the bomb landing, other people jumping in getting excited and then BOOM...someone is happy. It is pretty epic IMHO.

Have the bombing threads gotten out of hand, with all the aggressive ribbing and smack talk?

I say NAY, no more than any other night, at any give B&M or backyard across this fine nation.

This is what FRIENDS do....they make fun of each other all the time. It's part of LIFE people, to tease and make fun and play. SURE, its easier to get across in person that you are JOKING. As I have said before, there is NO Sarcasm font!!

I know from a personal standpoint, when I read this stuff, I laugh my butt off because I GET IT. I am in the thick of it. To an outsider looking in on that thread, it can easily be seen as a sign of aggression because they aren't seeing it for what it is. 
Its one bombing group teasing another bombing group with crass wit and a healthy dose of sarcasm.

We live in a world FULL of political correctness that is so stifling that we can barely say "Merry Christmas" anymore without someone getting their panties in a bunch. DO we REALLY want that kind of environment here?? Where innocent ribbing and fun, are mistaken for aggression and soon enough we don't have a bombing section because it got to out of hand? I KNOW I don't want it to get to that.

*It's simple: if you don't like whats being said in the bombing threads, don't read them. 
Don't want to be bombed by noobs (or anyone) take down your address. *

We have people running to mods and mods calling people out for crap that one friend would say to another in a bar in a drunken stupor and BOTH of them would laugh about it. Do we really need to run to mommy for that? For something said ON THE WEB? This is supposed to be a FUN place, full of people interacting, sharing info, having discussions and sharing a common bond. If you are OFFENDED by something you read, take a second, take a step back, and read it in the voice of "Chris Rock" in your head. When you are done laughing, MOVE ON WITH YOUR LIFE AND LET IT GO. 90% of what is said on the web is stuff people wouldn't say to each other face to face unless beer is involved. Just ASSUME everyone is drunk...and it all makes more sense. Take off your PC (political correctness) hat...and put on your baseball hat/combo beer holder and ENJOY THE SITE.

Now on the part about acquiring addresses before their time, sure, rules have been bent and/or broken, but it's not like these guys are sending ACTUAL bombs to these peoples houses. They are sending A GIFT, and often times pretty nice ones. Should they have been given the address, no, should that has asked for it, no. I can't imagine anyone that received those cigars (with addresses acquired by illegal means) was offended and returned those cigars. I would be VERY surprised if they did. 
I could see spanking someone for acquiring an address and mailing THOMPSON's catalogs..sure ban that person all the way to hell, but banning them for sending a gift, is like kicking Santa in the nuts for delivering presents in Nov. 
Yes, the broke a rule, and yes, they should be talked to and if they persist more should happen but I don't get where all the craziness is coming from about getting a gift a little early.

My two cents...please read it again in your head in the voice of either Arnold Schwarzenegger, Kermit the Frog, or Chris Rock before you put your PC hat on and panties are bunched.


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## Cigar Noob (May 22, 2011)

meatcake said:


> *It's simple: if you don't like whats being said in the bombing threads, don't read them.
> Don't want to be bombed by noobs (or anyone) take down your address. *


I've always kind of subscribed to this in all areas of the forum. It reminds me of the people that always chime in "lock it up". Just unsubscribe and be done with it. It says what subforum it is in next to each thread so it is very easy to avoid the bomb section. I think there is a ton at play in this discussion, much that hasn't been brought up like people just being jealous whether it be others getting bombs more than others, or others sending better bombs or being more creative or more personal or whatever... I think there is more here than noobs are the problem and shouldn't be given addresses. Noobs are always blamed. New guys are eager to have fun and should not be punished for it. Makes the rest of us look like the grinch if all we do is tell them what they are doing is wrong.


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## meatcake (Mar 3, 2012)

Cigar Noob said:


> I've always kind of subscribed to this in all areas of the forum. It reminds me of the people that always chime in "lock it up". Just unsubscribe and be done with it. It says what subforum it is in next to each thread so it is very easy to avoid the bomb section. I think there is a ton at play in this discussion, much that hasn't been brought up like people just being jealous whether it be others getting bombs more than others, or others sending better bombs or being more creative or more personal or whatever... I think there is more here than noobs are the problem and shouldn't be given addresses. Noobs are always blamed. New guys are eager to have fun and should not be punished for it. Makes the rest of us look like the grinch if all we do is tell them what they are doing is wrong.


Agreed sire...yes I said Sire!


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## TonyBrooklyn (Jan 28, 2010)

Cigar Noob said:


> The funny thing is, the habanos section is completely different in all aspects. The regular section is fun, light hearted, people interacting and joking around and the Habanos section is a complete 180. In fact I would have been more prepared for it on day 1 prior to getting used to all the camaraderie in the regular part of the forum. Let's not forget the thread that was all about restricting access even more...
> 
> The Habanos section is much different because all members have been around for 90 days and 100 posts! If the bombardiers had not given out addresses to those that were not here long enough 90 days most of this would never have happened!
> 
> ...


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## jphank (Apr 29, 2012)

Dave, this second thread started to be about how to improve the process of bombing, and how to respect each other -- it started under a second premise, not really to over ride your thunder.


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## FWTX (Feb 9, 2011)

If the current bomb trend was real - if they were truly meant as cigar gifts - then they could be sent anonymously - without the expectation of credit - but that's not what happens - they are nothing more than endless looping exchanges - the same people bombing each other - back and forth - back and forth... 
it's a bore


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## kapathy (Nov 20, 2010)

for all the people that are offended by the childish stupidity that some of us spew at eachother.... look at it from another perspective. This world blows, not a single day goes by without something aweful occuring. Today is an easy example, which Im not going to get into because that is not the point. Half the world is overly armed and wants to obliterate another part of the world....and were bitching about gifts and memes on a forum? Although im sure its not a 50/50 split more likely a 75/25 split so lets say for every 3 people that hate the banter there is 1 person that uses that banter to escape from life for a little bit. Is it stupid highschool bullshit yep it sure is.... and ya know what I like it....and I've leaned on this entertainment aspect very heavily the last 6 months or so....I'm sure I offended a ton of people as well... but talk to me for 5 minutes and its pretty clear that not a single thing I say is mean spirited in any way shape or form... its much better to make an ass of myself saying something silly than it is to sit there and dwell on whatever personal negativities you have going on. Everything isnt so serious, and if people learned how to vent and just let go, maybe even smile once in awhile, then maybe these piddily little bullshit reasons to go all up in arms wouldnt arrise so often. This is a forum based around a hobby that is for entertainment and enjoyment.... not everyone likes the same movies, music, art, comedy....why is it that this would be any different?


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## Guest (Dec 15, 2012)

jphank said:


> Dave, this second thread started to be about how to improve the process of bombing, and how to respect each other -- it started under a second premise, not really to over ride your thunder.


Exactly, thank you Jessica


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## jphank (Apr 29, 2012)

Sure, Ken, there's some repetitive loops happening, but there are a few voids to fill.

I've sent out a few packages that were never acknowledged, photos never posted, a poster disappearing after getting a package -- and that's okay. The recognition isn't why I do this. I adore seeing the reactions once someone gets their package. because we live at a distance we don't get to see that, and believe me, seeing the reaction, a smile -- it's good to give, but it's good to see the smile on the other end.


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## Fuzzy (Jun 19, 2011)

Having been bombed and actually bombed some one, one thing I can say is bombs can be fun. Another thought has occurred to me, amazing as that is in my state of mind.

I read through this thread and liked the idea of limiting the noobs from seeing "Bomb" threads the same as other restricted threads. Ninety days is not a lifetime. It would be very cool to read "bomb" reports from bombed noobs that have absolutely no idea what just happened to them!

I remember my noobie shuckins bomb like it was yesterday and it made me feel like I had found a new home on the interweb! In fact, it is the reason I still visit this place on a daily basis.


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## kapathy (Nov 20, 2010)

FWTX said:


> couldn't agree more!
> 
> PIF's
> MAWs
> ...


move cigars?.... i dont bomb to move cigars (whatever that means) i do it to have fun. I play in the other threads as well not so much lately...but like i said not everyone is going to enjoy the same things... i for one hate passes...hate everything about them you apparently hate bombs... ok, well that accomplished nothing. so what if more of the bombers went over and played in the maw threads then there would be a whole big thread about how the maw threads are out of control. different strokes for different folks.


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## Habanolover (Feb 22, 2006)

Tritones said:


> With all due respect - and I mean that sincerely - you really haven't been here long enough to know what the tradition is. Believe me, it makes me glad to see that you recognize it exists, and that gives me every hope that you will stick it out, follow it up, and find it out. Believe me also when I say I'm still learning the tradition of this place. Respect is earned. Many, if not most, people who join Puff do so because of the wealth of information found here. That wealth was forged over time by generous, experienced people. They have earned respect by simply building this place. As newcomers, we have the burden of offering respect first and hoping for its return second. And it's a bit unfair to newcomers, maybe, especially those who already know a bit about the hobby. And sometimes FOGs abuse their perceived privilege. And nothing is perfect. If Puff were perfect, it would stop being perfect when the second member joined.


This post cannot be quoted enough. This is the way it has always been and hopefully this is the way it will always be. After some of the things I have read the past few days I am not sure that it will ever return to the above which is a shame. It actually makes me sad.


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## FWTX (Feb 9, 2011)

kapathy said:


> move cigars?.... i dont bomb to move cigars (whatever that means) i do it to have fun. I play in the other threads as well not so much lately...but like i said not everyone is going to enjoy the same things... i for one hate passes...hate everything about them you apparently hate bombs... ok, well that accomplished nothing. so what if more of the bombers went over and played in the maw threads then there would be a whole big thread about how the maw threads are out of control. different strokes for different folks.


sorry Kevin - meant no harm - didn't mean to seem too harsh - bomb away

moving cigars - http://www.cigarforums.net/forums/vb/cigars-move/


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## joshuarodger (Jun 20, 2012)

FWTX said:


> If the current bomb trend was real - if they were truly meant as cigar gifts - then they could be sent anonymously - without the expectation of credit - but that's not what happens - they are nothing more than endless looping exchanges - the same people bombing each other - back and forth - back and forth...
> it's a bore


An anonymous gift? Oh what fun Christmas is with all of the anonymous gift giving. It's great opening those gifts on Christmas morning and not knowing who to thank. Anonymity is almost never a prerequisite for giving a gift and attaching your name to a gift doesn't mean you're looking for credit or something in return. It lets the person know you are thinking of them and appreciate what he/she is doing.


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## Dark Rose (Jul 13, 2012)

meatcake said:


> Wow, this is turning into quite the high school debate here.
> It is pretty simple.
> 
> Think about why you bomb.....If it is for one of the following reasons, you're good
> ...


I read it in the voice of Katt Williams... LOL.
I agree with this post, with all of the REAL stupidity, tragedy, bad luck, and whatever other depressing shit is going on outside in the real world, be it at your job, home, school, or the country, world, and planet in general, let people blow off steam here!

I understand rules, and the reasons for rules, and don't condone the breaking of said rules, but the smack talk, the the ribbing, the "foreboding DC of Doom" posts are reasons I joined and stuck around. A large group of people, interested in the same hobby, that can give each other tons of shit, be generous as hell, support the troops, and recognize other members for any reason and/or no reason? Thats's the kind of place I wanted to be!

I was recently out of work and get a couple bombs with stuff for me and MY SON just to help out, and cheer us up, where else does that happen?

I will unabashadly say, now that I'm back at work, that once things are stabilized and I'm on solid footing once again, SHIT IS ON, and there will be no apologies and no regrets. Bombing other people is fun, no matter what the reason. It's even more fun when it's for a good reason they've forgotten all about. If I talk smack, give warnings, whatever, that's all about me having fun with the gifts that I chose to send!

Play ball/Carry on/Rant over/DR Out.


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## Grrrrr609 (Nov 30, 2012)

Well i sat and read every word of this thread. I am a n00b here but i am not a n00b to bombs. I like to bomb to introduce myself to members as an introduction. I sent cigars i like so they can see my tastes. I have asked for adresses to send a few but was politely told i cant have any. I have sent humdreds of packages out over the years in bombs, trades, pifs, pibs, roaks etc. Never in my life has anyone ever complained. I have sent more bombs with a funny fake return address so the recipient wouldnt know where it came from.

I come to this forum and mainly read the bomb thread. I am impatiently waiting my 90 days so i can bomb. I do know the meaning behind bomb and enjoy the generosity that comes from the BOTL/SOTL in the bombs. A SOTL (I dont remember who) recently lost or left her cutter behind. I have that exact cutter brand new i would have bombed her with but alas i cant. I like bombing when the individual does not know its coming.

Block the bomb thread from n00bs and how do u expect them to learn about bombing? 

I couldnt care less about the habanos thread, but dont take away the bombing thread. I wouldnt have a reason to stay.


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## smokin surfer (Jul 21, 2012)

Dang this is a long read.. and well worth it. If nothing else we are learning more about each other and our views right here. I am proud to know all of you.

I have a buddy who is new at cigars and I'm kind of helping him out as little as I can as a noob myself. Most of what I tell him I've learned from Puff elders in these forums. Anyways, he is feeling his way around the zillions of cigars brands and doesn't know what is good, what is over priced or a good deal, what is to be avoided... I probably give him two or three cigars every week that I think he would enjoy based on his feedback from others he's smoked. Tonight he came over and we enjoyed a couple of Liga Privadas that I've been building him up to. I don't think he publishes an article about my unsolicited generosity in the local paper but I know he appreciates the opportunity to broaden his horizons and he thanks me accordingly. He also gives me a stick now and then that he likes and I've never tried. That's what it's all about to me, whether it's done on my back porch or in Puff on the interwebs. I haven't met anyone here in person yet, but there are many who I am positive that I would enjoy spending time smoking and shooting the shit with. I look forward to meeting some of you guys in a real herf one day.. until then I am bombing your [email protected]


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## Packerjh (Nov 29, 2009)

sweater88 said:


> a lot of people are posting in these two threads....a lot of people are not.
> 
> People aren't noticing who isn't, but they should :wink:


I've been lurking in the thread but haven't chimed in...there has been a lot of good stuff shared here, but I feel that we may be taking this just a little too seriously...

I love this forum! I have met people here that I consider friends even though I'll never physically meet them...the one thing I have in common with everyone here is tobacco in some form or other...

I have been bombed...I have bombed...I will definately bomb again...not for glory or to encourage retaliation, but for more selfish reasons...

I love how it feels to get a gift, and I REALLY love the anticipation I have when I send a gift off...I don't do drugs or drink enough to get drunk, but I get a high from the anticipation of a bomb landing that I have sent...for me
(And I'm sure many others) sending a bomb takes planning and budgeting...I only operate within a set budget for all of my hobbies, so I sometimes save for a while to buy cigars and plan for postage...I am sure there are others in a similar situation, and I cherish whatever gift a BOTL or SOTL chooses to send. I'm proud of the gifts I receive and love to shout it out loud in a post to all of you!

I'm not here to chide anyone for what they've done...I haven't been offended, and frankly I have participated in the banter...I don't read every thread on PUFF because some just don't interest me...this thread does because the act of gifting (or bombing) is dear to my heart.

I give what I can/want to whom I want for my reasons. Sometimes I post a thread to announce the gift, sometimes not. I always post a thank you thread when i receive a bomb...for me its the right thing to do in appreciation for the time and money that person saw fit to send my way. I won't change the way I do things because this is me...I consider you all my BOTL or SOTL whether I always agree with you or not...that also will not change.

As a parting shot, and because I'm tired of typing on an iPhone...my bombing addiction/love is all Ron Stacy's fault...his noob bomb made me feel special! I couldn't believe someone who had no idea who I was would share so much with me...with no expectation for payback. Thank you, Ron, and thank you, PUFF, for your time and friendship!


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## The_Chosen_One (Aug 18, 2012)

Lots of good stuff in this thread and a few things come to mind. Not pointing any fingers and I don't mean this to sound like an attack, but of course the forums won't always be what they used to be. That's the nature of life, it goes on changes, adapts & evolves. That being said, even if you know your kids aren't going to be just like you, you also don't want them to be complete screw ups either. 

The old guard have to guide the new blood, but we will never be carbon copies and there will be new things added to the forums, like bombing groups. As a few have mentioned, the newbie bombs received make you feel really special and really want to not just be a member but a part of these forums. That's exactly what makes this a community. 

At the end of the day it truly is fantastic on both sides of the bombing. The feeling you get when you receive a bomb is amazing, and the feeling you get when you see that thread that someone received and enjoys your bomb is fantastic. That's why bombing exists and should be the only reason it exists. I know there are lots of good reason's to bomb someone, but if it doesn't make you feel good you still shouldn't do it. That's what makes it a true gift.

I know this isn't necessarily contributing a lot to this thread, but I do feel like this thread needs a reminder of why bombs are awesome.




PS - Fuzzy is dead on with reading responses about noob bombs who have no idea what's going on, that alone is worth restricting access to the bomb forums for xx amount of time.


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## hawesg (Jun 9, 2012)

I have stayed quite on this since the beginning (at least I think I have it's been a long week so sorry if this is a repeat) 
I agree with most everybody that has posted here, on both sides, I think there is some wisdom in having this section not be visible to people when they first join, I do think that if that was the direction was taken there should be a sticky in the new puffer fish section similar to the "I smoked a great cigar today thanks to" in this section, something like "a great BOTL welcomed me to puff today" where people could post pictures and say thanks. I think it would be a nice thing in general, but more importantly I think otherwise, noobs would post thank you messages in general cigar discussion because they didn't know where else to put them.
As for the pre bomb announcement threads, I have been doing it for two reasons, 1) because it seems to be the norm and 2) because I remember (and I could be remembering wrong) that the all about bombing section used to say that it was a good idea and it built anticipation. 
As for bomb receiving threads, I really enjoy them for the following reason: the frequency at which people here who I have seen make a valuable contribution, express interest in something that I have, far exceeds the amount at which I am capable at this point in my life of sending out, and the satisfaction I get from seeing that someone else made their day, is something I truly appreciate. 
As for retaliation, I wouldn't send anybody anything to try and get something back, especially something of greater value (NST aside, but that is more about the fact that as a noob, I din't know what I wanted not because of the monetary value) I've been pretty fortunate in life and it would honestly be a lot less trouble to just go buy the more expensive sticks to begin with.


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## aaron72 (Jul 14, 2011)

I wasn't able to login to Puff since mid day yesterday (my busy schedule) and tonight I thought I'd catch up in about 15 minutes and then these two threads are here, holy smoke.

These are the types of threads that I think can ruin good things, Puff in this instance. People posting their dislikes and wanting to change the behavior of the group. I believe the term was used in Smelvis' version of this thread about Puff being a microcosm of todays society which I couldn't agree with more. Follow the rules of where you're at or there will be consequences based on the level of enforcement where you are at.

In your real day to day physical life, if there is someone that irritates you, can't you for the most part just not hang out with them or ignore them if you wish? Guess what, you can do the same thing here. There are people here on Puff that I don't really care for. It may have been something they said to me or someone else. It may be their general disposition. It doesn't really matter because I can make up any stupid reason I want. Someone else may think I judge someone too quickly while others may think I'm too lenient, but that doesn't matter because it's up to me to use any silly reason I want. There could very well and probably are people on Puff who don't care for me and you know what, I feel fine about that.

As a tangent from people, the same thing goes for everything else. Food or a type of music, or the way a certain person or group does something that another person or group you think does it better or the right way. Let's take professional athletes for example. Some now days are all about the showboating and celebrating. I prefer the ones who do their job and know that is what they are doing and they don't show off about it. So when a linebacker in football makes a sack on the opposing QB and the linebackers team is losing by 24 points and he gets up after the sack and does some stupid dance, it drives me nuts. Is that going to make me stop watching football? No, because I can enjoy the sport for what it is and root for the players I like and root against the players I don't like.

The stickies are here for a reason, they point out the rules and guidelines. They also give great tips for how to use the site, how certain functions within the community work. Guess what, there are lots of chuckleheads here that never read them. Just like in real life, where people ignore laws, don't read instructions or have a sense of entitlement. These people are everywhere, including here at Puff.

Just like the often used saying here, smoke what you like, like what you smoke, that should go for everything here at Puff as well. If you don't like someone, choose to ignore them through the software. If you don't like a particular contest, don't participate. Feel free to voice your opinion in a nice way to them directly as well through PM. Discuss your point and give them the reasons you feel that way. I would think any reasonable person would read that, think about it from your perspective and then make a decision about if they wanted to make any changes or keep things as is. And you know what, if they aren’t breaking any rules, then you have to respect their decision as well.

Things like jovial ribbing is great too, just make sure you’re not crossing any lines. You don’t want anyone to feel threatened or picked on. No violating of someone’s physical or virtual space so to say.

People should also keep in mind that they are responsible for how they come across to the community. If you come in blazing, not reading the stickies, posting multiples of the same threads or threads that are continually started or ones that are covered in stickies, there are going to be people that don’t like that and they may express that to you. Please don’t use the excuse of “If you knew me in person, you would know X.” Most of us don’t know you in person and never will, so you need to make yourself known through the medium that is available. For some people, they sign their own death wish while other flourish.

This is an open forum that is very accepting and there are just people that don’t agree with each other and that is ok, because that is how real life is. If you want a more regimented group with more rules, then maybe a private club is a better fit for you.

This is a great community and I have come into contact with many people that I never would have otherwise. Some I communicate with only through the forum, some I communicate with through other technological avenues and some I have been lucky enough to communicate with in person. I hope that I can meet as many of the people that I like here at Puff in person.

I hope that none of the thread starters or anyone supporting the threads feel I am directing this towards them, this is just an explanation of my overall feeling of how forums or groups start heading down a wrong path. Times change and things are never as good as you remember them. Focus your time and energy on the parts and people that you really like.

I know it is a very long post and for those of you that read through it, thank you. I just wanted to post something from possibly a different perspective.


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## Ky70 (Aug 21, 2012)

This thread is really a great read so thanks for this conversation. I just recently both made the 90 day/100 post landmark and added my address to my profile. As I looked at my profile a week or so ago, I noticed how my "about me" was really lacking in details so after checking out the about me pages of several veteran members, I decided to follow suit so I added more content included my address. I figured if these well respected vets are sharing their address, it must be ok.

I'm very guarded and private (generally speaking) so I was hesitant to add in more details to about me and especially so about including my address (as the web and world is fill of devious behavior). But from my past experience many years ago on cigar forums I recall that "cigar smokers" are among the best collective group of folks you will find so I said "what the heck". After reading this thread (and others) I just removed my address from my profile as I just want to be sure I understand the "rules of engagement" before I receive or send anything.

As I've viewed the bombing tradition here from afar, I've wondered what the etiquette and expectations are...what would I do if I'm gifted with some great sticks? Do I return the favor, share with everyone that I was gifted cigars and publicly acknowledge my appreciation, gift the person back, PIF and gift someone else? if Im sending sticks, is it ok to just send a couple or a few sticks, how would a smaller gift be received in comparison to some of the very generous gifts others are giving? I didn't do any research here on the topic as I've not been on either end of the gifting process (yet) so I just wondered about these questions.

I love the spirit of gifting cigars and thought that goes behind it...so maybe I'll jump into it in the future, but for now I'll sit on the sideline until have a better handle on how this should work.


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## Tritones (Jun 23, 2010)

Aaron - I love your post and your line of thought - all except this part:



aaron72 said:


> These are the types of threads that I think can ruin good things, Puff in this instance. People posting their dislikes and wanting to change the behavior of the group.


I know what you're saying, and it has merit, but I think this particular thread is one of the best ever on Puff. It goes way beyond bombing, and touches on how new blood and old guard learn to coexist. In spite of all the stickies, and all the archives, and all the possible avenues of access to such information, it seems like every once in a while there just grow up a crop of newcomers who don't really catch the spirit of this place. Not entirely their fault, either - I'm not blaming anyone, just stating a fact. This thread has given the FOG contingent a chance to express what's been seething under the surface, and newbies the chance to hear why that turmoil is happening, and for us in-betweeners to try and bridge the gap. Just as it should be. As more than one person has stated, the bombing issues will probably pass and settle down if left alone. But they will pass and settle more quickly with this kind of discussion, and more importantly, we have all taken advantage of an opportunity to get things out in the open.

Moving away from your thoughts a little bit. Yes, new blood will change Puff. But they can't expect to do it on their own terms - the old guard expect the new guys to build on the established foundation, which is perfectly fair. There are lots of other cigar forums out there. We're here because of something on Puff that we don't get elsewhere. I think that "something" is a result of the heritage created by the tenured members, and that their opinions should be considered carefully. Not that everyone else can't or shouldn't say what's on our minds. But, yes, hard as it may be for young guns to accept, the older voices around here should be listened to first. Sorry, that's really the way it is and should be. If you like Puff, figure a way to fit into that model without compromising yourself.

Is that a little pompous and overblown for talking about how to interact with an internet community built around rotten vegetation, when the world is full of all the crap that it's full of? Sure. But it's truth scaled-down to the smallness of this forum in the overall scheme of things.

By and large this thread has been a model of the way things should be discussed. I don't agree with all the viewpoints shared, but with very few exceptions, they have been spoken civilly and respectfully.


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## gosh (Oct 17, 2011)

All these threads lately, and what's being said back and forth, and the way things are being said... all it does is make me wanna retire from bombing and possibly puff.

I come to a cigar forum to get away from drama.


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## BaconStrips (Jun 3, 2012)

I agree 100% with you Jason.

The only thing that needs to change is what Pale Horse said in his first post...Stop giving out address's to Noobs, and also not to post pics with addresses. If a Noob wants to bomb they can do so by obtaining addresses from bombs sent to them, participating in PIFs, MAWs, ETC. If someone sends their return address IMO they are fair game, if they want to keep thier address a secret then dont include your return address.

Let me add one more thing: Noobs (under 90 days) should NOT be allowed to join ANY bombing groups too.



Packerjh said:


> I've been lurking in the thread but haven't chimed in...there has been a lot of good stuff shared here, but I feel that we may be taking this just a little too seriously...
> 
> I love this forum! I have met people here that I consider friends even though I'll never physically meet them...the one thing I have in common with everyone here is tobacco in some form or other...
> 
> ...


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## CigarShop (Oct 16, 2012)

@tirtones I've read your comments now five times, here are my thoughts being a "noob" or to quote you "new blood"

1. When I signed up on 10/16/12 I was immediately welcome by both new and old members. Thus making me say what a great place.
2. If certain FOGS have been "seething" why didn't they use the PM button to contact the person(s) who were upsetting them?
3. I do agree that the FOGs opinions should be heard and respected, but constructive criticism works better than destructive critisim.
4. The founding fathers of puff have made the rules, they are for EVERYONE. That means that Noobs, and FOGS must follow them. So if you've been here for two weeks or two years doesn't mean only certain rules apply to you.

I do think this thread was written with no " agenda" other than keeping the sanctity of Puff. It's a great forum with many great people. 
But it's just my opinion of course if you have an issue with anyone, PM them first try to reason with that person. This way it keeps anyone with an agenda putting up a thread and then using their "clout" to pile on a person(s)
Have a great weekend everyone.


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## Tritones (Jun 23, 2010)

Cigar Shop - I'm sure there have been lots of PMs on this subject. You may not have gotten any, but that doesn't mean none were sent. I wasn't talking about rules - I was talking about culture. There's a huge difference - rules are only part of culture. There is no rule that says someone with 6 years on the forum gets three votes to everyone else's one vote. But they do have a greater voice. I'm not sure what destructive criticism you're referring to, but I agree with your comment.

I hope you still feel welcome - nothing anyone has said was intended to make you feel otherwise, and if I have made you feel that way, I am sorry.


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## DarrelMorris (Feb 7, 2012)

Wow. I want congratulate everyone on their reasonable exchange of opinions on this topic. 

Personally, I really would hate to see bombing restricted in any way. The generosity and kindness shown by the members here on Puff are part of what makes this place special. I agree that the smack talking on the bomb thread occasionally crosses the line, sometimes way across the line, but that is a small price to pay for what we all have here. Even the most tasteless bomb threads are truly meant in the spirit of fun and camaraderie. When someone crosses the line, a FOG should simply send them a PM asking them to tone it down a bit rather than letting it get out of control. Really, the only problem here is communication. New members want to play too. They don't need to be restricted, they need to be guided. This idea that some bombs are sent with the expectation of being bombed in return is silly. No matter what the sender expects, there is no obligation to send a return bomb. If you don't want to send one...don't. That alone would be a great way to teach someone that bombs aren't exchanges, they are gifts. I guarantee that the first time a NOOB sends a bomb and doesn't get bombed in return, they will understand. 

This is a constantly evolving community where everyone is treated with respect. This is why I love Puff. To say that the old members are more deserving of respect than the new ones is nonsense. All members are equally deserving. This being said, it is the responsibility of the new members to spend some time getting used to the culture and make sure they don't inadvertently offend anyone. At the same time it is the responsibility of the older members to guide the new ones. This is a great community and I would hate to see that change. Since this is a public forum we will always be bringing in new members. For this reason our forum will always be evolving and changing. We need to remember that while change isn't always good, growth is impossible without change.


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## szyzk (Nov 27, 2010)

While this whole conversation exists right now because of Dave/Smelvis' comments, he isn't the first person to feel this way nor to voice his opinion about it.

I'm going to speak for Dave and say that it wasn't any one person or act that is making him feel this way; therefore it can't be handled with a simple member-to-member PM. Sometimes these things need to be stated publicly to allow the community to react simply because it's a communal problem.

Any time a member of Dave's standing says "Woah, I really need to take a step away from this place because the culture has changed", our ears should perk up. The knowledge they bring to Puff - which many of us rely on - has taken years for them to acquire, and if they leave or become less active/silent it's going to take years for us to get to that level. I'm not saying knowledge isn't replaceable. I'm not saying if you aren't part of the "older than X" club you have no value. I do agree that as time marches forward things here WILL change, and that's a GOOD thing that some of the older members will need to adapt to. And yet, if we come here to learn about tobacco and share our experiences with it - which I hope is our primary reason for logging in to Puff - we should be mindful about how our actions are affecting the members we rely on.


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## avitti (Jun 4, 2011)

There are over 28000 fish here on Puff. So if let say 1% want to bomb in and endless merry-go-round,with trash talk and over the top banter-why not ..It might not be with the same intent or the same meaning done by previous members sending out bombs, but the older members can take solace in:This too shall pass...


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## DarrelMorris (Feb 7, 2012)

szyzk said:


> While this whole conversation exists right now because of Dave/Smelvis' comments, he isn't the first person to feel this way nor to voice his opinion about it.
> 
> I'm going to speak for Dave and say that it wasn't any one person or act that is making him feel this way; therefore it can't be handled with a simple member-to-member PM. Sometimes these things need to be stated publicly to allow the community to react simply because it's a communal problem.
> 
> Any time a member of Dave's standing says "Woah, I really need to take a step away from this place because the culture has changed", our ears should perk up. The knowledge they bring to Puff - which many of us rely on - has taken years for them to acquire, and if they leave or become less active/silent it's going to take years for us to get to that level. I'm not saying knowledge isn't replaceable. I'm not saying if you aren't part of the "older than X" club you have no value. I do agree that as time marches forward things here WILL change, and that's a GOOD thing that some of the older members will need to adapt to. And yet, if we come here to learn about tobacco and share our experiences with it - which I hope is our primary reason for logging in to Puff - we should be mindful about how our actions are affecting the members we rely on.


Yes. We absolutely need to respect the knowledge of our more experience members. Their knowledge may be replaceable, but they themselves are not. My point was that new members are deserving of respect too. I do believe that this conversation is very important because at this point it is absolutely a community issue. In the future though, we should offer more guidance rather than waiting for things to get out of hand.


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## sweater88 (Jul 31, 2011)

Everyone who is responding should read the thread that spurred this one. Unfortunately it is closed now but you can still read it.

http://www.cigarforums.net/forums/vb/cigar-bombs/320571-howdy-please-angry-if-you-need.html


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## CigarGoogler (Sep 23, 2012)

The interwebz: Serious business. :laugh:

At this point, it feels like just about everything that can be said has been said, which is not meant to preclude further discussion. Having read--and participated--in this entire discussion it seems like a good time to pause and ask (or perhaps remind) us all to embrace a couple of important concepts: (1) Assume positive intent, and (2) show empathy, always. 

The internet is a crazy place where we try and communicate without body language and non-verbal cues. It is pretty easy to misunderstand each other and equally easy to cross a line before you know one has been crossed. I'm asking all of my brothers and sisters to assume positive intent when you believe a line has been crossed, and show the maturity and courtesy to have a private discussion with that individual to (a) express yourself respectfully, and (b) give that brother or sister a chance to do the same in an honest fashion. As we've read here over and over, what is felt or obvious to one is not to many others. Let's not jump to conclusions about motivations, apparent slights, etc. I'd wager that the super majority, if not all, of us are truly good, kind, giving people. Remember that about each other before you jump off the cliff.

To me, that is where empathy comes in. We don't know what each other are going through day-to-day, why each of us has joined this forum, or what brings us back each day. Do a quick scan of the myriad--the truly astounding breadth--of topics and discussions that happen here every day. We are all getting and giving different things to this forum and it's amazing. Because of those differences, we could all do to show some empathy to those around us, especially when we disagree. That is when we truly need it most.

You gals and guys rule. Sincerely. Thanks for being here and thanks for engaging me every day.


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## Oldmso54 (Jul 31, 2010)

CigarGoogler said:


> The interwebz: Serious business. :laugh:
> 
> At this point, it feels like just about everything that can be said has been said, which is not meant to preclude further discussion. Having read--and participated--in this entire discussion it seems like a good time to pause and ask (or perhaps remind) us all to embrace a couple of important concepts: (1) Assume positive intent, and (2) show empathy, always.
> 
> ...


Well said Trevyn


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## Brettanomyces (Jul 12, 2012)

Oldmso54 said:


> Well said Trevyn


Took the words right out of my mouth.


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## skfr518 (Jul 4, 2011)

Well after reading this again I owe Aaron an apology and I think a lot of us got this thread off topic. Dave brought up a point about the style of bombing and culture change. All Aaron said in this thread was for people to stop giving out addresses to people who have less than 90 days and 100 posts. This all started to go downhill and take away from Dave's post within the first ten posts. Now Dave has closed his thread because people started to mix the two threads together just like I did. Aaron I know your intent was never to take away from Dave's thread and I understand your concern with the lack of following rules when it comes to addresses. Thank you for reminding us that the rules are in place for a reason. It is funny to me tho how one or two comments that have nothing to do with the OP can change the whole thread. Again sorry for my part in that Aaron.


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## Guest (Dec 16, 2012)

skfr518 said:


> Well after reading this again I owe Aaron an apology and I think a lot of us got this thread off topic. Dave brought up a point about the style of bombing and culture change. All Aaron said in this thread was for people to stop giving out addresses to people who have less than 90 days and 100 posts. This all started to go downhill and take away from Dave's post within the first ten posts. Now Dave has closed his thread because people started to mix the two threads together just like I did. Aaron I know your intent was never to take away from Dave's thread and I understand your concern with the lack of following rules when it comes to addresses. Thank you for reminding us that the rules are in place for a reason. It is funny to me tho how one or two comments that have nothing to do with the OP can change the whole thread. Again sorry for my part in that Aaron.


No need to apologize brother, sure the discussion has taken a tangent, the original idea has still been discussed throughout. Mostly everyone has kept cool heads during this discussion, so I am grateful for that. As long as this discussion remains respectful and practical, rather than disintegrating into insults and useless complaining, then I am glad for it to continue. I simply haven't had anything else to add, so I've let others do the talking lol


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## Feldenak (Aug 15, 2012)

I've taken the weekend to think about it and have come to the following conclusions:

I will continue to send out bombs when I'm able
I will post DCs
I will remain a member of the MWM

When I have the means, I am very generous with my friends and I have made quite a few friends here at Puff. If some folks get their panties in a bunch over how I go about sharing my bounty with friends, so be it. I have no intention of changing.


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## Guest (Dec 16, 2012)

Feldenak said:


> I've taken the weekend to think about it and have come to the following conclusions:
> 
> I will continue to send out bombs when I'm able
> I will post DCs
> ...


Please do, really the main conclusions draw from this are that 1.) Addresses need to stop being given out, they are not visible to everyone for a reason, and 2.) Bombing should be about generosity and friendship rather than a means to show off or get notoriety.

You're a good brother and aren't guilty of either, so by all means rock on!


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## sweater88 (Jul 31, 2011)

Feldenak said:


> I've taken the weekend to think about it and have come to the following conclusions:
> 
> I will continue to send out bombs when I'm able
> I will post DCs
> ...


All we can be is ourselves brotha! (even if you're an Auburn fan :cheeky: )


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## Brettanomyces (Jul 12, 2012)

Pale Horse said:


> Please do, really the main conclusions draw from this are that 1.) Addresses need to stop being given out, they are not visible to everyone for a reason, and 2.) Bombing should be about generosity and friendship rather than a means to show off or get notoriety.


Yes, that's something I think we can all agree upon. It always helps to have the main points restated so succinctly in a long thread.

Andy's a great guy, too. You're right there as well.


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## Guest (Dec 16, 2012)

Brettanomyces said:


> Yes, that's something I think we can all agree upon. It always helps to have the main points restated so succinctly in a long thread.


lol, yes after 8 pages it was time for some Cliff Notes.

I haven't seen anyone dispute those two conclusions, but the real test will be to see if they are actually socially enforced or not. As far as the other measures, opinions have been voiced and now the rest is up to the management team


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## Feldenak (Aug 15, 2012)

Aaron - Thanks, I didn't want to go back and read the whole thread and see what direction it had taken. It's Sunday and I'm especially lazy on Sunday 

Joe - I'm an Auburn grad. I have to continue to support my team :lol:

Nick - Thanks man. I'm sure that'll change next time we get together and I drop some explosives in your hands.


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## CigarShop (Oct 16, 2012)

Andrew:
I'm wiping a tear from my eye. You're the quietest member of the MWMs, someone has to be. Like everything in life we have to find a common middle ground. I just wish people used the PM button more when they see an "issue" coming about.


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## asmartbull (Aug 16, 2009)

Pale Horse said:


> lol, yes after 8 pages it was time for some Cliff Notes.
> 
> I haven't seen anyone dispute those two conclusions, but the real test will be to see if they are actually socially enforced or not. As far as the other measures, opinions have been voiced and now the rest is up to the management team


Aaron
Well stated...
All in all I think this was a GREAT thread and believe we will be better off for it....
The team is on it, so let's close this up
Thanks to all who engaged in a civil discussion.


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