# Heartfelt beads mistake?



## Poneill272 (Oct 29, 2010)

I had to email heartfelt industries today, after finally stabilizing from 70% gel to 65% beads I have come to a conclusion. Here is the email I sent today, it explains my story. And by the way, I am in no way here to bash on on the company or their products, I'm just wondering if this has happened to anyone else, and to see what opinions/advice I get. I need some input. Thank you!

The email:

Hello, 
My name is phillip oneill, you can also find me on the puff forums as Poneill272. About 3 or 4 weeks ago, I ordered 1lb of your 65% beads bulk, 1 of the large aluminum rectangle humidifiers pre filled, and one of the small size aluminum rectangle humidifiers, pre filled also, and 2 small size pre filled tubes. All of these items were supposed to be from the 65% category. My problem is, the humidors that I am using the pre filled containers in, all hold perfect 65%rh, but the humidors with my retrofitted containers that I filled out of my 1lb bulk, all read a steady 70%rh. The bag was marked as 65% beads, but I believe that bag was filled with 70% beads by accident. I believe this is true because they are dispersed between 3 humidors, all with calibrated hygrometers, and all 3 are at this 70% range. This is now causing me to have some burn issues with my cigars. I am wondering what we can do to rectify this situation, as I am pleased with the overall performance of your beads, its just not the right rh. Also, I do have some more beads ordered, but they are for more humidors. My phone number is (edited) and my email is (edited). I am looking foreword to hearing from you. Thank you very much. You can also find me on puff.com as Poneill272.  Thank you, Phillip, O'Neill

What do you guys think?


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## smelvis (Sep 7, 2009)

I think you should have given him time to respond before posting it on an open forum, Sorry you asked.


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## Sarge (Nov 21, 2010)

I'm thinking you'll be lucky to get a response...

what I think? I doubt they sent you the wrong beads. I think that perhaps your humidors are possibly over saturated hence the reason 65% beads are reading high. I'd say crack one open for a few-several hours, toss the cigars back in, beads back in and see how it's reading after that. Either that or just pull the beads for a few hours, let them dry a bit and toss them back in to suck up some of that extra moisture. that's one of the approaches I'd take. :tu


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## Poneill272 (Oct 29, 2010)

smelvis said:


> I think you should have given him time to respond before posting it on an open forum, Sorry you asked.


ok, well, like i said, im not bashing anybody, and the reason i posted so soon is because i want to know any other possible problems i might have, so i can rule everything out. i dont want them to be replacing anything for no reason. so i sent the email and am asking you guys for help figuring ths out. i am still new to beads and if he replaces them, and the problem is actually something i am doing, that would be a waste of time and money for everyone. i honestly hope it is my fault.


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## Tman (Sep 12, 2010)

The problem is, IMO, these beads are chemically adjusted to give biggest buffer in the 65% range. That's all it is. It's basically your job now to dry them out or wet them to get your humidor to 65%.

I would try dry boxing the 1lb beads and see if you get a better result out of those beads.

It's completely possible to have an over-saturated or under-saturated beads even with the chemically conditioned beads. I'm guessing they usually ship those 65% beads assuming that typical users will have a humidor that has slight leakage.


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## Poneill272 (Oct 29, 2010)

Thank you so far. I have already checked on the saturation of the beads, and they are only about 50% saturated. I also have a container of dry beads in as a buffer. So saturation doesn't seem to be the issue in this case. I wish it was.


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## smelvis (Sep 7, 2009)

Hey Phil
Sorry brother no bad intentions I just posted what I would have done, sounds like you are getting good advice and sorry if I sounded like I was picking on you. Sometimes more words are better  hope you get it figured out.

Dave


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## Tman (Sep 12, 2010)

Poneill272 said:


> Thank you so far. I have already checked on the saturation of the beads, and they are only about 50% saturated. I also have a container of dry beads in as a buffer. So saturation doesn't seem to be the issue in this case. I wish it was.


Why don't you just use the dry beads? How did it get 50% saturated? Did you spray them or were they saturated when you got them?


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## TonyBrooklyn (Jan 28, 2010)

Beads are plug and play unlike Kitty Litter which requires tweaking to get the R/H you want. That being said if you only hydrated 50% they should be at 65%. I would as you have done already contact the company. As they are honorable i am sure they will rectify the problem. It could be a mis marked run of beads accidents do happen. I would wait to hear from Heartfelt any attempt to dry them with a hair drier or by any other un natural occurring means. Might crack them or render them useless. Good Luck!


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## smelvis (Sep 7, 2009)

Over saturation is the most common mistake, I did it myself on my first attempt. In all the threads about bead problems in like 99% of the case it is usually operator error bro. now again not picking on you just saying. I would start over bring the humidors rh up without the cigars and beads, let the beads dry out and when you get the humidors rh at the level you want add the beads lightly spraying them with a misting bottle. Don't add the cigars until you get the humidors set the level you want.

Then add the cigars and expect some fluctuations until they level out. Good luck it'll work out.

Dave


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## Poneill272 (Oct 29, 2010)

Tman said:


> Why don't you just use the dry beads? How did it get 50% saturated? Did you spray them or were they saturated when you got them?





TonyBrooklyn said:


> Beads are plug and play unlike Kitty Litter which requires tweaking to get the R/H you want. That being said if you only hydrated 50% they should be at 65%. I would as you have done already contact the company. As they are honorable i am sure they will rectify the problem. It could be a mis marked run of beads accidents do happen. I would wait to hear from Heartfelt any attempt to dry them with a hair drier or by any other un natural occurring means. Might crack them or render them useless. Good Luck!


Tman, I saturate them to 50% using a spray bottle.

Tony, thank you, I'm hoping to hear something today. I figure having the dry beads in there would regulate any saturation mistakes I would make, and 70% is the result. It is rock solid on that reading too, which makes me think they are wrong. Just like the containers that came pre filled hold steady at 65%. I think my reasoning is right here.

Thanks everyone! I'll post more when I talk to them.


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## ckay (May 10, 2010)

Your humidors have a great seal it sounds like and the excess humidor isn't getting absorbed by the cedar, cigars, or the beads.

I'd dry the beads and put them back in and let the beads absorb the excess moisture over the course of a few weeks.

It took me a while to get down to 65% when I converted over. I am sure you will have the same experience. It'll require patience.


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## Reg (Dec 6, 2010)

Test your beads in a small tupperware container with a reliable hygrometer. First test some that you think are 65 and then test some that you think are 70. Use the same hygrometer and container for each test.


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## Poneill272 (Oct 29, 2010)

smelvis said:


> Hey Phil
> Sorry brother no bad intentions I just posted what I would have done, sounds like you are getting good advice and sorry if I sounded like I was picking on you. Sometimes more words are better  hope you get it figured out.
> 
> Dave





smelvis said:


> Over saturation is the most common mistake, I did it myself on my first attempt. In all the threads about bead problems in like 99% of the case it is usually operator error bro. now again not picking on you just saying. I would start over bring the humidors rh up without the cigars and beads, let the beads dry out and when you get the humidors rh at the level you want add the beads lightly spraying them with a misting bottle. Don't add the cigars until you get the humidors set the level you want.
> 
> Then add the cigars and expect some fluctuations until they level out. Good luck it'll work out.
> 
> Dave


Dave, you r such a hard nosed pr!!k! Lol, kidding! I have been using them correctly, I know you aren't picking on me, it's kool. I've been using the pre filled containers in 2 other humidors and they are perfect, I know I'm not over saturating them, that's why I think this might have been the wrong beads. My methods for wetting them is consistent overall. But, I am following the advice here and seeing what happens. I took them out last night, and let them dry naturally some and my rh dropped overnight as well. I put them back in this morning and I'm watching the rh steadily climb back from what was 58% to now 69%. I'm perplexed!


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## Poneill272 (Oct 29, 2010)

I guess I should mention that one of my "problem" humidors was seasoned the herf and turf method and was seasoned with the beads and is not part of the conversion. The ones I converted from the gel are using the pre filled containers and have leveled off at 65rh. The ones I am having trouble with are ones that have not seen anything but these bulk beads in question.


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## Reg (Dec 6, 2010)

Just to reiterate, if you want to confirm a difference in your beads you need to do a controlled experiment in which the only variable is the beads. You need to test each set of beads in the same container, with the same hygrometer, for the same amount of time.


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## smelvis (Sep 7, 2009)

Poneill272 said:


> I'm watching the rh steadily climb back from what was 58% to now 69%. I'm perplexed!


Maybe they are just the wrong beads, do you have any other HF beads the right RH you could try to see if they work?


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## Poneill272 (Oct 29, 2010)

smelvis said:


> Maybe they are just the wrong beads, do you have any other HF beads the right RH you could try to see if they work?


Not enough for that specific humidor, but I am doing a tupperware test. We'll see how that goes. As reliable as these suckers are though, I'm almost certain they are wrong. From all the advice I've gotten, it seems like I have been taking the right steps to determine the problem. Idk, sometimes even the best businesses make mistakes, and murphy's law does tend to follow me like a shadow. Lol. Thanks Dave!


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## Tman (Sep 12, 2010)

Poneill272 said:


> Not enough for that specific humidor, but I am doing a tupperware test. We'll see how that goes. As reliable as these suckers are though, I'm almost certain they are wrong. From all the advice I've gotten, it seems like I have been taking the right steps to determine the problem. Idk, sometimes even the best businesses make mistakes, and murphy's law does tend to follow me like a shadow. Lol. Thanks Dave!


It sounds like the humidor in question is holding the humidity very well. I don't know if I can say the same for your other humidors. Some humidors just leak a little more than others. I'm guessing the ones that are at 65% is leaking more than the one you have at 70% steady.


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## Jeff10236 (Nov 21, 2010)

Reg said:


> Test your beads in a small tupperware container with a reliable hygrometer. First test some that you think are 65 and then test some that you think are 70. Use the same hygrometer and container for each test.


Do what he said.

Since you have one set of beads that seems to be working as you want them to, and one set that seems to be off, but they are in different environments (different humidors with different hygrometers), the only way to know for sure that it is the beads is to have them spend some time in the exact same environment. The same container and hygrometer will control for differences in those and the only issues will be those dealing with the beads. You still won't be controlling for differences in how you charged them, but it should be close enough. If you want to be 100% sure and control for that too, have the beads sit out long enough to dry out and measure out the same amount of distilled water into each before putting them in the tupperware (it may also help to make sure you have the same volume of each type of bead).

That said, it does sound like you are doing the right things and I'd be leaning towards thinking there was a mistake and you were sent the wrong bulk beads. Whether that is the issue or not, you have contacted the company. Customer service is a big deal to me (having spent a lot of time in customer service environments before entering teaching), so I'd love to hear about how fast and how well they address your concerns.


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## veteranvmb (Aug 6, 2009)

Reg said:


> Test your beads in a small tupperware container with a reliable hygrometer. First test some that you think are 65 and then test some that you think are 70. Use the same hygrometer and container for each test.


 I had this problem, of rh not high enough, and never trusted the stated rh on the beads. 
I finally did a ziplock bage test, with a spot on hygrometer. All my beads were marked 70rh, but some it seemed like they were mislabeled and 65 rh. I gave up on them. Never got any response from customer service. People said they were moving locations or something, but never returned email, phone calls, left a very bad taste in my mouth. 
Floral foam, and a gel humidity jar, work just fine for me. All my humis, stay around 68 rh, top and bottom. 
I am happy going old school. 
In my next larger humidor, which I should have in a couple of months or so, I will be going to electronic humidification, like in Joses humidor, except this will be a larger humidor then Joses, and will have an unusual configuration.

Much regards Jerry


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## Reg (Dec 6, 2010)

Jeff10236 said:


> You still won't be controlling for differences in how you charged them, but it should be close enough. If you want to be 100% sure and control for that too, have the beads sit out long enough to dry out and measure out the same amount of distilled water into each before putting them in the tupperware (it may also help to make sure you have the same volume of each type of bead).


This is solid scientific method. As long as the beads aren't 100% saturated and you're using a large amount of beads per volume of the tupperware, I bet you'll figure out the RH of the beads without having to do a dry/recharge step.


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## Poneill272 (Oct 29, 2010)

Reg said:


> This is solid scientific method. As long as the beads aren't 100% saturated and you're using a large amount of beads per volume of the tupperware, I bet you'll figure out the RH of the beads without having to do a dry/recharge step.


That's what I'm doing now. we'll see how it goes. Cannot get in touch with customer service yet, but I will at least know if the beads are wrong or not.:twitch::twitch:


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## ckay (May 10, 2010)

Poneill272 said:


> That's what I'm doing now. we'll see how it goes. Cannot get in touch with customer service yet, but I will at least know if the beads are wrong or not.:twitch::twitch:


Keep in mind that Heartfelt is a one man show. Give him time to respond.


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## Poneill272 (Oct 29, 2010)

ckay said:


> Keep in mind that Heartfelt is a one man show. Give him time to respond.


Did not know that. Thank you!


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## youngstogiesmoker (Feb 14, 2010)

I actally just ordered a half pound of 65% that have been holding steady at 70% for over a month now. I was going to try to remedy the situation, but they are holding for sticks that are gonna be resting for a few years, so I didnt think too much of it...when i wanna smoke some of the sticks outta there i'll just throw them in the humi thats holding around 63 and smoke them a week or two later.


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## Poneill272 (Oct 29, 2010)

youngstogiesmoker said:


> I actally just ordered a half pound of 65% that have been holding steady at 70% for over a month now. I was going to try to remedy the situation, but they are holding for sticks that are gonna be resting for a few years, so I didnt think too much of it...when i wanna smoke some of the sticks outta there i'll just throw them in the humi thats holding around 63 and smoke them a week or two later.


That's about the same time I ordered mine. Maybe I'm not losing my mind after all. With mine though, i have close to 500 cigars and I never know which one I will smoke next, so I want them to be ready when I am. And again, the aluminum rectangles I got came filled with beads and they are 65rh dead on. The bulk ones are the ones in question and seem easier to make a mistake when packaging. I hope there aren't more floating around out there. I will note this to him when I talk to him, but I won't say who u are. Thanks for the input.


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## Poneill272 (Oct 29, 2010)

The beads in question have been in the Tupperware since this morning, they have been steady 70%. time to try the others.


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## smelvis (Sep 7, 2009)

Phil you should get what you paid for regardless! BTW also remember it is a holiday weekend too but i am sure David will get back to you. I hope.

Good luck!


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## Reg (Dec 6, 2010)

Poneill272 said:


> The beads in question have been in the Tupperware since this morning, they have been steady 70%. time to try the others.


That's a nice positive control for your hygrometer too.


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## Tman (Sep 12, 2010)

The Heartfelt beads looks exactly like Artsorb beads that is made by a company called Fuji Silysia. To my knowledge, they do not make two different types of Artsorb beads.

Fuji Silysia Website on Artsorb

I could be totally off the wall here, but I'm just gonna just take a wild guess that there is really no real material difference in the 65% and 75% beads. They probably saturate the beads more on the 70% beads compared to the 65% beads before they ship them out. Basically, when you sprayed to wet the beads, you turned the beads into an equivalent of 70% beads. Take a look at the EMC diagram for the Artsorb to understand what I'm saying here.










Basically, the beads will stabilize at where you stabilize it (or depends on how much water is in the beads). It does not "magically" maintain 65% or 70% RH. I hope I'm wrong here.


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## youngstogiesmoker (Feb 14, 2010)

Nice info there but i think heartfelt uses different amounts of some salts on the beads that regulate the RH to what they are specified...I guess im not 100% sure of that, but i'm pretty sure thats what they do.


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## Tman (Sep 12, 2010)

youngstogiesmoker said:


> Nice info there but i think heartfelt uses different amounts of some salts on the beads that regulate the RH to what they are specified...I guess im not 100% sure of that, but i'm pretty sure thats what they do.


I can't argue about this, but I'm just speculating things based on their small operation:

Heartfelt Industries, Inc - Carson City, Nevada (NV) | Company Profile

I don't think they operate any manufacturing plant, so they must be getting these from somewhere? It would be great if they showed the data to back up the claim that it is two different product other than water content.


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## Poneill272 (Oct 29, 2010)

I just talked to him on the phone, we actually laughed and talked for about 10 min. Lol! He said it's very possible there was a mistake made, he does have helpers that sometimes fill orders for him, so anything is possible. He is personally filling a new pound of 65% beads and shipping them tomorrow. He said I should give the 70% beads to someone on puff after I change them out. I smell another bomb....:twisted:


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## Reg (Dec 6, 2010)

Did you ever test the second set of beads?

Edit: Ah, I see. The questionable beads did yield 70% RH. Nice resolution from HF Industries.


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## smelvis (Sep 7, 2009)

Poneill272 said:


> I just talked to him on the phone, we actually laughed and talked for about 10 min. Lol! He said it's very possible there was a mistake made, he does have helpers that sometimes fill orders for him, so anything is possible. He is personally filling a new pound of 65% beads and shipping them tomorrow. He said I should give the 70% beads to someone on puff after I change them out. I smell another bomb....:twisted:


Very Cool
That is the typical way he handles his business I am so glad he did so again. That and his troop support is one of the many reasons I continue to buy and recommend others buy from him as well.

Dave


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## Poneill272 (Oct 29, 2010)

Ya, like I said, I was happy with them, they worked perfectly, very reliable, just not the right ones. :tape2:Happens. I will definitely buy from him a third time! I hope he logs into puff sometime so I can get him on my friends list. He's a cool gut, as I said earlier, we talked for a little while, about humidors, cigars, beads, women and puff! Now that is one of a kind customer service!!:first:


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## Habanolover (Feb 22, 2006)

David is a great guy and a great BOTL. This is why he will always get my business. Glad to see the the issue is being resolved.


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## Tman (Sep 12, 2010)

Nice to hear he handled the problem well.


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