# Do Cuban seconds exist?



## zeavran1 (Aug 18, 2009)

I only had a little bit of time to smoke yesterday and I didn't want to smoke a 'first' so I started smoking a Partagas Black Label Piramide second (just as good as a first) when it hit me. Why haven't I seen cc seconds? Does that market exist?


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## bouncintiga (Feb 3, 2010)

i believe the short answer is: no.


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## zeavran1 (Aug 18, 2009)

bouncintiga said:


> i believe the short answer is: no.


Well, I guess we can close this up. lol. I wonder why they wouldn't.


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## bouncintiga (Feb 3, 2010)

zeavran1 said:


> Well, I guess we can close this up. lol. I wonder why they wouldn't.


part of it is probably the status thing. but have you seen some of the "firsts"? water spots, ugly wrappers etc. some would never pass as firsts for a lot of NC companies. The problem is there is too much demand so cigars that pass the suction test are usually capped and packed.


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## TonyBrooklyn (Jan 28, 2010)

zeavran1 said:


> I only had a little bit of time to smoke yesterday and I didn't want to smoke a 'first' so I started smoking a Partagas Black Label Piramide second (just as good as a first) when it hit me. Why haven't I seen cc seconds? Does that market exist?


No such animal! My buddy used to say 
"Its like trying to find a virgin in a brothel" :flypig:


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## Tredegar (Nov 27, 2007)

Can you explain Diplomaticos for me then?


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## sirxlaughs (Nov 18, 2005)

You know how people talk about consistency issues with Cuban cigars sometimes? I guess you can chalk that up as seconds. Either that, or the Cuban people are smoking them up. I doubt everyone over there has the disposable income for "premium" cigars.


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## bouncintiga (Feb 3, 2010)

Also I think anything that would fail or any reason is just chopped up and used for short filler tobacco. the circle of life as they say


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## VoteKinky06 (Jan 7, 2006)

I was told the seconds were chopped up and used in the short filler cigars. That's hearsay though


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## bouncintiga (Feb 3, 2010)

VoteKinky06 said:


> I was told the seconds were chopped up and used in the short filler cigars. That's hearsay though


oh i'm not claiming that for fact, it's just what I think i've been told.


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## asmartbull (Aug 16, 2009)

Tredegar said:


> Can you explain Diplomaticos for me then?


I have found the diplos to be more consistent than Monte's..


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## Codename47 (Aug 6, 2007)

I can't imagine cuban seconds when lots of "firsts" would not pass even NC seconds quality control


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## mvorbrodt (Jan 13, 2010)

sure they exist. they're called Cohiba


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## pomorider (Nov 14, 2009)

I was told once that Jose L. Peidra uses left over Tobacco from R&J and Montecrsito. It is up to you whether you believe it or not.


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## Codename47 (Aug 6, 2007)

pomorider said:


> I was told once that Jose L. Peidra uses left over Tobacco from R&J and Montecrsito. It is up to you whether you believe it or not.


As far as I know JLP uses tobacco from Vuelta Arriba, and premium brands like Monte' and R&J from Vuelta Abajo.


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## Perfecto Dave (Nov 24, 2009)

*What little bit of common sense I have left tells me that if it's not passing QC for 1st's, it getting recycled for another try or being used for something else in the smoking world.*


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## bouncintiga (Feb 3, 2010)

well i know that the cigars must pass a suction test and those that pass are then capped and boxed. but what they do with the ones that don't is beyond me. It would be a waste to just throw them away and not cut them up to use as short filler.


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## RicoPuro (Sep 24, 2008)

How about Guantanamera? Nope, that would be "thirds"....


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## SmoknTaz (Jun 18, 2008)

Codename47 said:


> I can't imagine cuban seconds when lots of "firsts" would not pass even NC seconds quality control


I would take a great tasting smoke that looks like shit over a great looking smoke that tastes like shit any day! lmao oke:


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## SmoknTaz (Jun 18, 2008)

RicoPuro said:


> How about Guantanamera? Nope, that would be "thirds"....


Way too generous!


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## Codename47 (Aug 6, 2007)

SmoknTaz said:


> I would take a great tasting smoke that looks like shit over a great looking smoke that tastes like shit any day! lmao oke:


I can't argue :smoke2: However, it would be great if cigar both looked and tasted fantastic.


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## Tarks (Mar 3, 2009)

Codename47 said:


> I can't argue :smoke2: However, it would be great if cigar both looked and tasted fantastic.


IMO, I love the look of cuban cigars. They look like they should, like a handmade product. Some of these NC's don't look like a handmade product. And many appear to have dyed wrappers.


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## zeavran1 (Aug 18, 2009)

bouncintiga said:


> part of it is probably the status thing. but have you seen some of the "firsts"? water spots, ugly wrappers etc. some would never pass as firsts for a lot of NC companies. The problem is there is too much demand so cigars that pass the suction test are usually capped and packed.


I guess you're right. I'm smoking a cc cohiba (bombed by shuckins) and it looks like a second or third. lol. Tastes fantastic!


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## TonyBrooklyn (Jan 28, 2010)

SmoknTaz said:


> I would take a great tasting smoke that looks like shit over a great looking smoke that tastes like shit any day! lmao oke:


Agreed i have over the years smoked many a Non Cuban dog Rocket.
Can't ever remember smoking one Cuban dog Rocket.:brick:


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## SmoknTaz (Jun 18, 2008)

TonyBrooklyn said:


> Agreed i have over the years smoked many a Non Cuban dog Rocket.
> Can't ever remember smoking one Cuban dog Rocket.:brick:


What aboot the Guans? :loco:


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## jimjim99 (Jan 25, 2009)

seconds are only ah gimmick to sell more cigars. IMO


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## TonyBrooklyn (Jan 28, 2010)

SmoknTaz said:


> What aboot the Guans? :loco:


Yes i forgot about those they are indeed Dog Rockets.


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## Frinkiac7 (Dec 12, 2008)

I think a lot of the local brands "for domestic consumption only" and cost like one Cuban peso, or are given out as part of government rations, would qualify in our minds as seconds. They are even below JLPs on the totem pole. Thinking brands like Villamil, Bauza, El Credito, etc.


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## Jordan303 (Aug 16, 2008)

SmoknTaz said:


> What aboot the Guans? :loco:


HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

I had a cristale one time. Never again!


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## TonyBrooklyn (Jan 28, 2010)

Jordan303 said:


> HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
> 
> I had a cristale one time. Never again!


First box i got a gave a couple to the UPS guy.
He didn't talk to me for months!:laugh:


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## Snake Hips (May 30, 2008)

Tredegar said:


> Can you explain Diplomaticos for me then?


Diplomaticos was designed to be a milder, cheaper Montecristo for the French market, which preferred mild cigars, cheap cigars and Montecristo cigars.


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## Frinkiac7 (Dec 12, 2008)

There was a good thread on uber-cheap CCs that are only available in Cuba over on FoH a while ago...let me go try and dig it up...they had good pics.


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## tpharkman (Feb 20, 2010)

I found the following info on another website with origins outside of the United States. Not sure how factual it is but it seems to be good information on how there may in fact be CC seconds but they obviously are not specifically labeled as such. Anyway here is the info...

This list divides into four levels all Cuban cigars that are currently available, 
and produced since 2005. 

The first "tier" comprises all cigars that are, and have always been, hand-made, with long filler. 
The following marcas currently produce only first tier cigars : 
BOLIVAR, COHIBA, CUABA, DIPLOMATICOS, EL REY DEL MUNDO, LA GLORIA CUBANA, JUAN LOPEZ, MONTECRISTO, QUAI D'ORSAY, RAMON ALLONES, SAINT LUIS REY, SANCHO PANZA, 
SAN CRISTOBAL, TRINIDAD, VEGAS ROBAINA, VEGUEROS. 
These marcas produce mostly first tier cigars, with the exception of the vitolas listed below : 
FONSECA, HOYO DE MONTERRAY, H. UPMANN, POR LARRANAGA, PUNCH, RAFAEL GONZALEZ, PARTAGAS, ROMEO Y JULIETA. 

The second "tier" comprises all machine-made cigars (none of which have been produced since 2005); 
all cigars that were formerly machine-made and are now produced as hand-made long filler; 
and all Tripa Corta cigars. 
The following marcas produce only second tier cigars, all tripa corta : 
LA FLOR DE CANO, JOSE L. PIEDRA, QUINTERO. 
The following cigars are the second tier vitolas produced by the other marcas : 
FONSECA : Delicias (TC)
HOYO DE MONTERREY : Coronations, Palmas Extra 
H. UPMANN : Coronas Junior, Coronas Major, Coronas Minor, Epicures, Majestic, Regalias 
POR LARRANAGA : Montecarlos, Panetelas (TC) 
PUNCH : Coronations, Petit Coronations, Royal Coronations 
RAFAEL GONZALEZ : Panetelas Extra (TC)
PARTAGAS : Aristocrats, Coronas Junior, Coronas Senior, Habaneros, Mille Fleurs, Partagas de Luxe, Petits Coronas Especiales, Super Partagas 
ROMEO Y JULIETA : Belvederes, Coronas en Cedro, Mille Fleurs, Regalias de Londres, Romeo No. 1, Romeo No. 2, Romeo No. 3, Sports Largos. 

The "third tier" cigars are the products of the ICT factory, all machine-made, and no longer listed as "Habanos" : 
The GUANTANAMERA marca 
All the Puritos, Clubs, and Mini cigars. 

The "fourth tier" consists of around half of the total production of Cuban cigars : 
Those cigars destined for the local market only, hand-made with medium-short filler, 
packaged in paper-wrapped bundles of 25, and sold individually in Cuban bodegas for the price of one National Peso.


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## Frinkiac7 (Dec 12, 2008)

tpharkman said:


> The "fourth tier" consists of around half of the total production of Cuban cigars :
> Those cigars destined for the local market only, hand-made with medium-short filler,
> packaged in paper-wrapped bundles of 25, and sold individually in Cuban bodegas for the price of one National Peso.


I'll also pinch from our Aussie brethren and expand on this. Basically these are cigars that are only available in Cuba for national consumption, are cheap as dirt, all short filler, and used to be issued (maybe still are) to people as part of their monthly rations. General consensus is that they smoke worse than a Guan or JLP, and are a "yard gar" in every sense of the word. Here's some pics I pilfered...not stealing their bandwith though, so let's hope they don't mind...














































Label says "This product can be damaging for your health and create addiction." :mrgreen:


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## tpharkman (Feb 20, 2010)

I am not exactly sure what bandwidth is so I hope I didn't still any. I just thought it was good information to share as it appears that CCs do have seconds even if they don't advertise them as such.

The plastic bag packaging looks like they are selling nuclear material and not cigars. Scary looking leaf!!!


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## JustOneMoreStick (Sep 21, 2009)

I thought they were put in a glass topped box and sold to the tourists on the beach/pier.


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## SmoknTaz (Jun 18, 2008)

Jordan303 said:


> HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
> 
> I had a cristale one time. Never again!





JustOneMoreStick said:


> I thought they were put in a glass topped box and sold to the tourists on the beach/pier.


Those are limited release. Only the uncle of the friend of the brother who knows someone's sister's grandmother's daughter that works in the factory has access to them!


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## Codename47 (Aug 6, 2007)

What an ugly wrappers


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## Kevin Keith (Jan 24, 2010)

For one peso, I believe I could make Villaamil my brand. I'm nothing if not cheap. And the review I read said it was a pretty good cigar. I would buy one of these glass tops to store them in though. :dude:


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## JustOneMoreStick (Sep 21, 2009)

Im in for a peso or two how bad can it be it IS a Cuban


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## Frinkiac7 (Dec 12, 2008)

Well, to hear it told, JLP was one of these cheapo domestic-only cigars before they gave them a test run in England...they took off as a cheapie and so Habanos decided to make them more widely available. So I guess it's not inconceivable that these bargain-basement short fillers could find a place in international markets. With the global recession...lol!

If I were Habanos, once the embargo ended, I would look seriously at marketing these bundles of cheapies as "cuban seconds" for $50/bundle to hungry American smokers.


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## SmoknTaz (Jun 18, 2008)

Frinkiac7 said:


> Well, to hear it told, JLP was one of these cheapo domestic-only cigars before they gave them a test run in England...they took off as a cheapie and so Habanos decided to make them more widely available. So I guess it's not inconceivable that these bargain-basement short fillers could find a place in international markets. With the global recession...lol!
> 
> If I were Habanos, once the embargo ended, I would look seriously at marketing these bundles of cheapies as "cuban seconds" for $50/bundle to hungry American smokers.


I don't think they need to market these as seconds. Most people already consider the JLP line the poor mans Cuban  They are definitely a good bang for the buck though and I always have some on hand.


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## TonyBrooklyn (Jan 28, 2010)

I have smoked a lot of Peso cigars that were better than many Non Cubans.:thumb:
So don't let the descriptions fool you, they are better than they are described.:bolt:


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## JustOneMoreStick (Sep 21, 2009)

I suppose everyone has different tastes and some will have a wider appeal than others.


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## audio1der (Mar 8, 2006)

Tredegar said:


> Can you explain Diplomaticos for me then?


They're anything but a "second". They originated as a targeted marca for the French. They are still considered a "Regional" marca.

As others have stated, there are NO Cuban seconds.


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## audio1der (Mar 8, 2006)

SmoknTaz said:


> I don't think they need to market these as seconds. Most people already consider the JLP line the poor mans Cuban  They are definitely a good bang for the buck though and I always have some on hand.


...And $50 is more than some of us pay for JLPs! I certainly wouldn't pay that for pesos.


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## SmoknTaz (Jun 18, 2008)

audio1der said:


> ...And $50 is more than some of us pay for JLPs! I certainly wouldn't pay that for pesos.


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## Frinkiac7 (Dec 12, 2008)

Yeah, but your average casual smoker in the U.S. doesn't know that, and would give his left ear for some "real Cubans!" Hmmm, maybe I'd better stock up now...could make a killing when Fidel finally kicks...


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## TonyBrooklyn (Jan 28, 2010)

Frinkiac7 said:


> Yeah, but your average casual smoker in the U.S. doesn't know that, and would give his left ear for some "real Cubans!" Hmmm, maybe I'd better stock up now...could make a killing when Fidel finally kicks...


I don't know about that i would venture to say 90% of all the business those online vendors get. Comes from the United States.:smoke2:


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## Frinkiac7 (Dec 12, 2008)

TonyBrooklyn said:


> I don't know about that i would venture to say 90% of all the business those online vendors get. Comes from the United States.:smoke2:


True, but at the same time, for every one of us, there's about 10 people who smoke NCs down at the local B&M and would be itching to try some Cubans. Just look at the difference in traffic between the NC and CC parts of the Puff boards! And I'd argue anyone on Puff is more than a "casual smoker" who probably does most of their buying from CI or at their local B&M. In any case, I smell...opportunity! :tea:


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## TonyBrooklyn (Jan 28, 2010)

Frinkiac7 said:


> True, but at the same time, for every one of us, there's about 10 people who smoke NCs down at the local B&M and would be itching to try some Cubans. Just look at the difference in traffic between the NC and CC parts of the Puff boards! And I'd argue anyone on Puff is more than a "casual smoker" who probably does most of their buying from CI or at their local B&M. In any case, I smell...opportunity! :tea:


Good Luck and yes your right nothing ventured nothing gained.:beerchug:


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## bouncintiga (Feb 3, 2010)

Frinkiac7 said:


> True, but at the same time, for every one of us, there's about 10 people who smoke NCs down at the local B&M and would be itching to try some Cubans. Just look at the difference in traffic between the NC and CC parts of the Puff boards! And I'd argue anyone on Puff is more than a "casual smoker" who probably does most of their buying from CI or at their local B&M. In any case, I smell...opportunity! :tea:


I agree. get em while they're "cheap". I know prices will jump up a lot if and when the embargo drops. simple supply and demand. of course I also hope that the prices will go down afterwards but I think they'll still be more expensive than when the embargo is still in place. stock pile em now and maybe those peso smokes will be $50 a bundle LOL.


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## Snake Hips (May 30, 2008)

I think a lot of us are forgetting that peso cigars cost one peso _for all 25_.

Many reports I've heard say they aren't bad at all. Kind of rough and JLP-like. A Cuban cigar that costs so little individually that American currency doesn't even come in a small enough denomination to purchase? I think I'd give it a shot for less than a penny a piece; my tastes are broad.


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