# Seriously, what's the big deal about CCs?



## Nurse_Maduro (Oct 23, 2008)

Ok, straight up: This post is NOT an attempt at trolling. Rather, it's a serious attempt to understand why some people are all about CCs only, and denounce NC sticks.

While I may never have tried one (believe it or not; I was actually standing in a humidor in Canada last year and, knowing that it's illegal for me to partake even if in another country, I just couldn't bring myself to do it. I know, I know. But then, I even put my turn signal on when leaving my driveway.), but I do have some thought behind my reasoning that CCs just can't be as big a deal as some make them out to be.

_*1:* Cuban cigars only contain cuban tobacco._ Sounds stupid, but let me explain. Cuban tobacco crops sit on a narrow archipelago of islands, which means they are particularly affected by the weather (especially given the geographic location of Cuba). This means that if the weather is poor (as it often has been the last two decades), the crops will be poor...which means your sticks will be poor.

By contrast, a NC line can get their tobacco from anywhere, which means that even if the country where they get, say, their binder has had a bad crop, they can find a similar leaf in another place to keep that line of cigars pretty much the same from year to year. If I pick up a NC line, I feel safe in saying I know what it will taste like, damn near every time.

_*2:* They're overpriced._ I think even CC aficianados agree on this point.

_*3.* The tobacco is young._ Which means you can't smoke 'em when you get 'em...from what I've read on the boards, most people recommend seasoning them for a while before enjoying them.

_*4.* Honduras is similar to Cuba, in terms of climate._ Which is why many producers of CCs set roots there to make similar heavy-bodied sticks.

_*5.* The seeds are not only in Cuba._ We know that seeds were smuggled out, and that many of the sticks we smoke now contain leaf that grew from seeds generations removed from Cuban seed. While it may not be the same seed grown in the same climate and soil, I don't see how (for example) a heavy Punch grown in Honduras from Cuban ancestral seed can be so different from a Cuban Punch that it warrants the price (and risk).

I can see where, at one time, CCs were superior smokes. When the Torcedores first began defecting, they needed to find the rich soil and temperate climate needed to grow the leaf they wanted. I'm sure that there were some vastly inferior cigars being made. But today, with the different companies and countries and know how involved, I just don't see why there are some people who still feel that all NC sticks are inferior.

Is it because CCs are forbidden fruit?

Again, I'm NOT trying to piss anyone off; just as a fellow BoTL who has a deep love for the hobby, I have an intense desire to know...what's the big deal about CCs?


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## JGD (Mar 2, 2009)

I think you brought up some good points. I have tried to answer your points below, however, if I am wrong about anything, I'm sure some more experience BOTL will chime in. Hope this helps!



Nurse_Maduro said:


> _*1:* Cuban cigars only contain cuban tobacco._ Sounds stupid, but let me explain. Cuban tobacco crops sit on a narrow archipelago of islands, which means they are particularly affected by the weather (especially given the geographic location of Cuba). This means that if the weather is poor (as it often has been the last two decades), the crops will be poor...which means your sticks will be poor.
> 
> By contrast, a NC line can get their tobacco from anywhere, which means that even if the country where they get, say, their binder has had a bad crop, they can find a similar leaf in another place to keep that line of cigars pretty much the same from year to year. If I pick up a NC line, I feel safe in saying I know what it will taste like, damn near every time.


If poor weather creates a bad crop one year the outcome will be the same no matter if the cigars are Cuban or from another country. Yes, if all of Cuba's crops are poor than that year the will all likely be a less quality product. However, if crop from the DR is poor one year, that doesn't mean that company A who uses Dominican tobacco in one of their lines will switch to tobacco from Honduras for that line for one year. That line will simply be of lesser quality due to the poor crop.



Nurse_Maduro said:


> _*2:* They're overpriced._ I think even CC aficianados agree on this point.


I completely disagree. Sure, they are very expensive in Canada, but that's due to the high taxes. In many other countries they are on par with NCs.



Nurse_Maduro said:


> _*3.* The tobacco is young._ Which means you can't smoke 'em when you get 'em...from what I've read on the boards, most people recommend seasoning them for a while before enjoying them.


This may be true. However, there is a pro in this. NC's TYPICALLY do not age as well as Cubans. While CCs, typically get better with age, so by aging them they get even better. The reason you do not generally have to age NCs is because they are already aged before they are sold. Also, its VERY easy to buy CCs with some age on them. I have found it much easier to buy CCs, from 02,03, and 08. I have yet to see a CC for sale from 09. This is not to say that they don;t exist, only that you can easily get them with age on them.



Nurse_Maduro said:


> _*4.* Honduras is similar to Cuba, in terms of climate._ Which is why many producers of CCs set roots there to make similar heavy-bodied sticks.


Cuban tobacco is generally considered the best due to climate and soil conditions, not climate alone.



Nurse_Maduro said:


> _*5.* The seeds are not only in Cuba._ We know that seeds were smuggled out, and that many of the sticks we smoke now contain leaf that grew from seeds generations removed from Cuban seed. While it may not be the same seed grown in the same climate and soil, I don't see how (for example) a heavy Punch grown in Honduras from Cuban ancestral seed can be so different from a Cuban Punch that it warrants the price (and risk).


The seeds aren't what really matter, its the soil and climate. And, although the soil and climate may be similar in other countries, its still not the same. And again, there really isn't much of the price difference if you find the right sources.



Nurse_Maduro said:


> Is it because CCs are forbidden fruit?


I do agree with you that this is true with many Americans. However, I believe it affects the casual American cigar smokers more than those that consider cigars a serious hobby.


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## Scott W. (Jul 10, 2008)

Nurse_Maduro said:


> Ok, straight up: This post is NOT an attempt at trolling. Rather, it's a serious attempt to understand why some people are all about CCs only, and denounce NC sticks.
> 
> While I may never have tried one (believe it or not; I was actually standing in a humidor in Canada last year and, knowing that it's illegal for me to partake even if in another country, I just couldn't bring myself to do it. I know, I know. But then, I even put my turn signal on when leaving my driveway.), but I do have some thought behind my reasoning that CCs just can't be as big a deal as some make them out to be.
> 
> ...


I disagree 100% on this (# 2 point) John, most of my CC's cost me half of what my NC's do and I am not talking about the Super Premiums. just the flavor of the tobacco above all else seperates the CC from all others. Try one first and you will see.:thumb:


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## SureShot81 (Oct 15, 2009)

I have never smoked a CC, but from reading many posts on here and abroad the answer is typically the same. CC's have a different taste. Not better or worse, just different. Some people enjoy this taste, while others do not. I know the explanation sounds simple, but some times things just are that simple. I'm sure you'll get a few varying responses from more educated CC smokers, but the taste is often brought up in these discussions. Kind of like comparing puros from different countries such as the DR and Nicaragua. They do taste different. Some prefer DR puros, where I prefer the taste of a Nicaraguan puro.


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## 96Brigadier (Oct 20, 2009)

I've mostly smoked CC's, but the couple of NC's I've tried have been god awful in comparison to my CC's. The last cigar I smoked was a Padron 4000 Maduro, I had high expectations given how people talk about them, perhaps too high. It didn't even come close to comparing to my CC's.

re: price, the Padron cost me ~$10 at a B&M in Denver. Yes, I realize that's significantly higher than what I could buy it for from Atlantic, but that's what they charged. I can buy CC's that to me are far better and the cost is the same or less.

i.e. a box of RASS cost me $209 shipped to my door, that's $8.36 per stick. The RASS is smaller so it's not an apples to apples comparison but for my purposes it's close enough.

Am I going to keep sampling NC's? Absolutely, sooner or later I'm going to find some that I like. It's just that to date none have come close to comparing to what I'm used to.


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## Scott W. (Jul 10, 2008)

96Brigadier said:


> I've mostly smoked CC's, but the couple of NC's I've tried have been god awful in comparison to my CC's. The last cigar I smoked was a Padron 4000 Maduro, I had high expectations given how people talk about them, perhaps too high. It didn't even come close to comparing to my CC's.
> 
> re: price, the Padron cost me ~$10 at a B&M in Denver. Yes, I realize that's significantly higher than what I could buy it for from Atlantic, but that's what they charged. I can buy CC's that to me are far better and the cost is the same or less.
> 
> ...


Is that CAD or USD and how much tax you paying? I can get 'em for $148 per box USD.


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## 96Brigadier (Oct 20, 2009)

scottw said:


> Is that CAD or USD and how much tax you paying? I can get 'em for $148 per box USD.


Assuming you're referring to the RASS: USD, no taxes or duties or the price would have been triple that where I live. This is the only source I know that is legitimate, I've seen cheaper prices but haven't been able to verify those vendors.


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## Shaz (Oct 10, 2008)

This debate, I think, will go on for ever. There's many that only smoke CC's and there are many that only smoke NC's and neither can understand why the others are that way. This, I attribute to personal preference.

I can understand your line of thinking for the most part. But you stated a few things that are a bit off.
The main one is that price is higher on CC's, which has already been commented on. Also, a Punch CC compared to a Punch NC are miles apart. No resemblance what so ever. Same goes for all NC brands that have a Cuban counterpart. I don't think the blenders are even trying to mimick the Cuban version.
There's been some who have commented on certain NC's to be similar to CC's, but I haven't found one yet.
Another comment that gets bandied around a lot, is that somehow CC's are "better" or "superior" to NC's. There may be some who would make a blanket statement like that, but for the most part, I believe that most CC lovers would only say that they are "different" and that to them, they like them better.
The forbidden fruit argument doesn't work outside of the USA. Being from Canada, they are not forbidden fruit. If anything, NC's kind of are, because prior to internet, they were, and still are, difficult to get from a retailer in Canada.
Lastly, all the comments on soil, climate, cuban seed, etc....
Really, in the end, CC's do taste different. I personally don't really care why, just glad that they do.
Too bad you didn't go WTH and try a CC when you had the chance.

BTW, I do enjoy NC's as well, but don't take away my Cubans.

To each their own. It's all good. :thumb:


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## Scott W. (Jul 10, 2008)

96Brigadier said:


> Assuming you're referring to the RASS: USD, no taxes or duties or the price would have been triple that where I live. This is the only source I know that is legitimate, I've seen cheaper prices but haven't been able to verify those vendors.


 Yes sir, the RASS. Just askin.


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## Nurse_Maduro (Oct 23, 2008)

Very cool comments, all. Thanks for taking the time...it certainly was not a small post. It seems I was misinformed about the price, so apologies all around for that.

I agree that the keyword here should be "different" but many people I've spoken to use the word "better," which only fuels my curiousity.


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## 96Brigadier (Oct 20, 2009)

Nurse_Maduro said:


> Very cool comments, all. Thanks for taking the time...it certainly was not a small post. It seems I was misinformed about the price, so apologies all around for that.
> 
> I agree that the keyword here should be "different" but many people I've spoken to use the word "better," which only fuels my curiousity.


Better is just one person's opinion. If you asked me today my response would be CC's are better, but that's only because I haven't found a NC that's turned my crank yet. In the future I hope to be able to respond that CC's are different, not better.


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## Shaz (Oct 10, 2008)

Guaranteed that this discussion doesn't end here. This kind of thing brings out the passions from both camps, it seems.


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## mash (Jul 24, 2007)

Man these threads are tiresome.
I've never had a Cuban cigar before, and I'm not allowed to smoke them, but I'm going to state an opinion about why they're overrated.
I don't understand how people that have extensive experience smoking both NC's and CC's can actually prefer CC's. 


These are people's opinions. Nothing more, nothing less. 
That said, around the world, where both CC's and NC's are freely available and legal, the vast majority of cigars smoked are Cuban. 
If the embargo ends, you can try some and see what you think.


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## asmartbull (Aug 16, 2009)

I have and enjoy both.
Truth is I have found MANY NC's to be dog rockets.
I have yet to find a cc that I would put in that category.
I definitely prefer some more than others.

The short of it,,,I am comfortable buying a box of CC's on certain peoples
recommendations on this site. I do bot feel the same with NC's,,,,I don't care who they are.

Just .02:juggle:


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## commonsenseman (Apr 18, 2008)

I enjoy both quite a bit & I think there are CC's & NC's that are excellent.


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## Scott W. (Jul 10, 2008)

mash said:


> Man these threads are tiresome.
> *I've never had a Cuban cigar before*, and I'm not allowed to smoke them, but I'm going to state an opinion about why they're overrated.
> *I don't understand how people that have extensive experience smoking both NC's and CC's can actually prefer CC's. *
> 
> ...


Coming from someone that never smoked a CC, this statement is a bit ridiculous, no offense. It's like saying, "I never drank red wine and for those that do, I don't know how you can prefer it over white". Where's the logic?


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## Nurse_Maduro (Oct 23, 2008)

mash said:


> Man these threads are tiresome.
> I've never had a Cuban cigar before, and I'm not allowed to smoke them, but I'm going to state an opinion about why they're overrated.
> I don't understand how people that have extensive experience smoking both NC's and CC's can actually prefer CC's.
> 
> ...


Did you even bother to read the entire post? If you had you would have seen the sentence "Again, I'm NOT trying to piss anyone off; just as a fellow BoTL who has a deep love for the hobby, I have an intense desire to know...what's the big deal about CCs? "

If these threads are tiresome, why read...and why respond? Insult the post, insult the poster. The question was legitimate, and driven by a thirst for knowledge *from those who know better than me*. Of _course_ they're opinions. That's why I asked.

If you'd like to add something to the conversation, I'd be interested in knowing your source for your statement that "the vast majority of cigars smoked are Cuban." James Suckling stated earlier this year that Cuba exports 150 million cigars anually (and that Americans buy 20 million of them), but I can't find information on cigars produced in other countries.

Why not engage in actual conversation instead wasting everybody's time being condescending?


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## Tarks (Mar 3, 2009)

Cuban cigars are just better...period! Anyone who thinks otherwise has either never smoked an authentic cc or is denial and should seek psychiatric treatment immediately. lol.

But seriously, most nc cigars that I have smoked have been absolutely terrible in comparison to even an average cc. It has gotten to the point where I have given up buying nc's becasue I have wasted enough money. This is just my opinion and I would never knock anyone who thought otherwise.


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## Nurse_Maduro (Oct 23, 2008)

scottw said:


> Coming from someone that never smoked a CC, this statement is a bit ridiculous, no offense. It's like saying, "I never drank red wine and for those that do, I don't know how you can prefer it over white". Where's the logic?


He's not speaking from his own point of view here; he's sarcastically summing up what he thinks my post said.


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## Nurse_Maduro (Oct 23, 2008)

Tarks said:


> Cuban cigars are just better...period! Anyone who thinks otherwise has either never smoked an authentic cc or is denial and should seek psychiatric treatment immediately. lol.
> 
> But seriously, most nc cigars that I have smoked have been absolutely terrible in comparison to even an average cc. It has gotten to the point where I have given up buying nc's becasue I have wasted enough money. This is just my opinion and I would never knock anyone who thought otherwise.


See, THIS is what I'm looking for. As an NC-only smoker, I've certainly had my share of dog rockets too, but to hear from CC smokers that a dog rocket is rare...that definitely helps me to understand why people would go through the trouble of seeking them out.

My heartfelt thanks to those of you who got it.


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## Scott W. (Jul 10, 2008)

Nurse_Maduro said:


> Did you even bother to read the entire post? If you had you would have seen the sentence "Again, I'm NOT trying to piss anyone off; just as a fellow BoTL who has a deep love for the hobby, I have an intense desire to know...what's the big deal about CCs? "
> 
> If these threads are tiresome, why read...and why respond? Insult the post, insult the poster. The question was legitimate, and driven by a thirst for knowledge *from those who know better than me*. Of _course_ they're opinions. That's why I asked.
> 
> ...


He did John, he gave us his one sided opinion after admitting he knows nothing about the cigars in question on this thread. How is that not 
adding something? Of course it adds something entirely irrelevant but it's an additional post nonetheless. By the way, I have never been a nurse and for you nurses, I don't know how you prefer being a nurse over being a fireman.


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## fuente~fuente (May 11, 2009)

Tarks said:


> This is just my opinion and I would never knock anyone who thought otherwise.


Good... Cause I like both!:lol:


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## Nurse_Maduro (Oct 23, 2008)

scottw said:


> By the way, I have never been a nurse and for you nurses, I don't know how you prefer being a nurse over being a fireman.


Two words my friend: exertion asthma. Which sucks, btw. It also kept me out of the military.

Man, this thread blew up...and then took a strange side turn! lol 

I have to take off for a few hours, so if this thread gets worse I promise I'm not hiding!


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## Shaz (Oct 10, 2008)

scottw said:


> Coming from someone that never smoked a CC, this statement is a bit ridiculous, no offense. It's like saying, "I never drank red wine and for those that do, I don't know how you can prefer it over white". Where's the logic?


You're misunderstanding the post.
It took me a couple of reads to understand this post. The first couple of comments were directed at the OP.
Personally the comments weren't fair to John's OP and unnecessarily provocative. There's always going to be certain themes repeated over and over. John's post was more of an inquiry than an opion.
Let's chill out...


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## Scott W. (Jul 10, 2008)

Shaz said:


> You're misunderstanding the post.
> It took me a couple of reads to understand this post. The first couple of comments were directed at the OP.
> Personally the comments weren't fair to John's OP and unnecessarily provocative. There's always going to be certain themes repeated over and over. John's post was more of an inquiry than an opion.
> Let's chill out...


If that is the case then so be it but if so, the response was in poor taste and should not have been posted, some people can't help themelves I guess.


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## Nurse_Maduro (Oct 23, 2008)

Shaz said:


> Guaranteed that this discussion doesn't end here. This kind of thing brings out the passions from both camps, it seems.


Man, you weren't kidding when you said this.


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## Tarks (Mar 3, 2009)

Nurse_Maduro said:


> See, THIS is what I'm looking for. As an NC-only smoker, I've certainly had my share of dog rockets too, but to hear from CC smokers that a dog rocket is rare...that definitely helps me to understand why people would go through the trouble of seeking them out.
> 
> My heartfelt thanks to those of you who got it.


Thanks. By no means am I saying that I have never smoked a cc dog rocket. That would just be plain stupid of me to say. Just simply saying that if I were to purchase one box of cc's and one box of nc's (both that I have never had) 1/20 nc's I would love and 18/20 cc's I would love. I just love the cc profiles/twang whatever you want to call it. There are no other countries in the world that have the "flavour" consistency that Cuba has.


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## Shaz (Oct 10, 2008)

The cc dog rockets are the tent pegs that are so plugged, you end up mashing them in the pavement, like someone else here did. Right Don?
http://www.cigarforums.net/forums/vb/habanos-reviews/256323-when-you-piss-off-american.html
I have to admit that I rarely have had this problem with NC's.


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## Shaz (Oct 10, 2008)

Nurse_Maduro said:


> Man, you weren't kidding when you said this.


Don't wanna say "told you so"
Anyway, it's just one post.


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## JGD (Mar 2, 2009)

I just realized even though I posted earlier, I didn't comment on my preferences. Personally, I have never had a Cuban Cigar that I have disliked. However, that being said, I have not smoked many different types of Cubans because they are harder (and riskier) for me to get, so when I do get them I rarely get ones I have yet to try. As far as NCs, I do enjoy them as well. For instance, a Pardon Anni Maduros are in my opinion amazing. Other NCs I have lit up and tossed half way through. Also, I have found more consistency in the CCs I have smoked. While I have had NCs that I have loved and then smoked another of the same line and have been disgusted. 

However, an important note to remember is that taste is completely subjective. Everyone's tastes differ, even in the slightest way. 

Also, John, you had a question and asked it. Isn't that what Puff is all about? People shouldn't attack you because you started a thread on a "tiresome" topic.


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## Cigary (Oct 19, 2007)

If I have seen this kind of post once I've seen it a 100 times. Regardless of where the cigar comes from everybody has a certain "taste" they like. I enjoy CC's and non CC's and one doesn't necessarily mean that it is better than the other. Who makes that kind of decision anyway? Certainly not me because I know what I prefer and what I prefer doesn't mean a thing to anyone else because you know what your preference is going to be. Bringing science or soil and climate into the mix doesn't prove or disprove one thing as much as it only tells what our preference is. If I like more pepper on my steak or want to dip it in A1 sauce or ketchup then that becomes my preference. 

There is no big deal in CC's nor is there a big deal about non CC's,,,,it's only a big deal to the person who enjoys it. my 2 cents


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## tx_tuff (Jun 16, 2007)

Wow a lot going on in this thread, I read some of it but it would take me all day to read it all because I want to respond to so many posts.

The prob I have with your first post (not really a prob but just a thought) is that you came up with 5 reasons you think CC are not better but you have never smoked one. Thats like me coming up with 5 reasons why Coke is better the Pepsi but I have never drank Pepsi (by the way have drank both and Coke is better). Anyway I know you was trying to piss anybody off etc I just think you asked the wrong way.

I agree with most that price is about the same. NCs can be cheaper if you really do the price hunting thing or use CBid etc.. but otherwise they are close. 

As far as Cubans being better I will disagree with that statement. I have smoked my share of REAL Cuban cigars and I have had more burn and draw problems with them then NCs. Not to say I don't like Cubans, there are some very good ones out there. But I like the taste of a Nicaraguan cigar better. And it doesn't hurt that for me a Nicaraguan is a lot easier to get hold of and try.


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## ssutton219 (Apr 17, 2007)

John,

I will add my 2 cents to this...

I have had the chance to smoke ALOT of stix due to the generosity of those I have had the pleasure of chatting with and sharing this hobby with...but I stored the cubans I recieved with the rest of my stash at 70%....and I HATED everyone of them and had MANY MANY conversations of why "everyone" loved them but I didn't and was told one thing...I am not EVERYONE..now that really doesnt work in your spot since you have never had one but for those who have and had issues please look how you store them..I have lowered my RH and the stix I once hated I now enjoy and those who have smoked NCs and have not enjoyed them..again..they like a lil more humidity...My Opinion..not fact.

The Cuban Tobacco seeds grown else where may be the same in design but the climate and soil and nutrients are COMPLETELY different..so..the tobacco is different.

Prices..well you can find deals on almost every kind of stick if you look.


I like both and I acquire both and share both..I have my faves both Non Cuban and Cuban and its all based on my OPINION!


I hope this helped shed some light.


Shawn


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## Tarks (Mar 3, 2009)

tx_tuff said:


> Thats like me coming up with 5 reasons why Coke is better the Pepsi but I have never drank Pepsi (by the way have drank both and Coke is better)


Dude, you have the palate of a billy goat and you clearly have no idea what your talking about! Coke sucks, Pepsi is king!


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## Baz (Feb 11, 2009)

I agree...I am a dual citizen and have had many plugged poor cuban cigars which cost $20-$75 per stick while a Padron 1964 or Avo #2 or Camacho 10th Anniv torpedo or Rocky Patel Decade toro are just as good in my opinion or better...


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## mash (Jul 24, 2007)

scottw said:


> Coming from someone that never smoked a CC, this statement is a bit ridiculous, no offense. It's like saying, "I never drank red wine and for those that do, I don't know how you can prefer it over white". Where's the logic?


Exactly. That was my issue with the OP. 
If you've never tried a CC, it sounds foolish to say "but I'm going to tell you why they're no big deal compared to an NC". After this statement, they invariably say that CC smokers are biased and close-minded.
Do you see the irony now?

BTW CC's are not more expensive than similarly priced NC's, this just flat out isn't true.


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## Cigary (Oct 19, 2007)

Tarks said:


> Dude, you have the palate of a billy goat and you clearly have no idea what your talking about! Coke sucks, Pepsi is king!


ROFL,,,,Jeff, you crack me up. I prefer Pepsi over Coke any day and that could get me stoned here in Atlanta where you have to go underground to find Pepsi.


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## Habanolover (Feb 22, 2006)

I will respond to thjis post tomorrow when I am sober.


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## Tarks (Mar 3, 2009)

madurolover said:


> I will respond to thjis post tomorrow when I am sober.


You are clearly sober if you making great decisions like one.


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## Trev (Nov 4, 2009)

ound:
You guys crack me up!
Gimme a cohiba and a pepsi.


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## Nurse_Maduro (Oct 23, 2008)

tx_tuff said:


> Wow a lot going on in this thread, I read some of it but it would take me all day to read it all because I want to respond to so many posts.
> 
> The prob I have with your first post (not really a prob but just a thought) is that you came up with 5 reasons you think CC are not better but you have never smoked one. Thats like me coming up with 5 reasons why Coke is better the Pepsi but I have never drank Pepsi (by the way have drank both and Coke is better). Anyway I know you was trying to piss anybody off etc I just think you asked the wrong way.
> 
> ...


Cool. You seem to be in the minority, but that makes me feel a bit better about only having NCs to smoke. 

As for my points in my OP, I was kinda damned if I did, damned if I didn't. I wrote all that out so that people didn't think I was just tossing the question out to get people worked up, but also so it didn't seem like I was just being obstinant...as it would have looked if I wrote those all out in individual posts to responses to my OP. If that makes sense.


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## smelvis (Sep 7, 2009)

My only opinion is I like both, what I don't like is someone telling me my favorite smoke is dog shit, That speaks from a small mind! Other than that I like the everyone's taste is different, shit I hate cooked cauliflower but I don't mind you eating it. LOL :thumb:


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## Nurse_Maduro (Oct 23, 2008)

mash said:


> Exactly. That was my issue with the OP.
> If you've never tried a CC, it sounds foolish to say "but I'm going to tell you why they're no big deal compared to an NC". After this statement, they invariably say that CC smokers are biased and close-minded.
> Do you see the irony now?


I'd see the irony if I actually had said, "I'm going to tell you why they're no big deal compared to an NC." Instead, I offered the only viewpoint I had, and ASKED PEOPLE WHO HAD DIFFERENT EXPERIENCES THAN MINE TO PLEASE EDUCATE ME.

Jesus dude, is this really _that _hard to understand? I get that you have heard this a million times before, but I haven't. This is my first time to the Havana board and, more than likely, my last.

Fortunately, I got some really great answers from some really great people. And I'm also better educated now, thanks to them.

Sorry, but ..c'mon. Read the damned thread. I've already explained this, and you obviously already had a schema formed about who I am and what I was asking, and it didn't matter what I or anybody else said. I bear no ill will toward you, but I'm also not going to sit here and not defend myself if you can't even be bothered to read.

And now I'm done on the subject. Many, MANY thanks to everyone else.


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## Rubix^3 (Nov 10, 2008)

I have to admit that as an American that generally abides the rules, CC's have quite a bit of mystique for me. I have only smoked a couple before, mainly when I traveled out of the country. I have actually had bad luck so far. This year, I have gotten to smoked two, and they were both plugged! 
Currently, I have a BBF in my humi that I got in a pass and I am crossing my fingers...
Until I smoke a good one, I won't diss all the great nc's I've had over the last few years.


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## eyesack (Jul 19, 2009)

Cigary said:


> ROFL,,,,Jeff, you crack me up. I prefer Pepsi over Coke any day and that could get me stoned here in Atlanta where you have to go underground to find Pepsi.


Aaaaah, the "Forbidden Fruit" phenomenon! Gary, when Atlanta lifts the embargo on Pepsi, will it still taste oh so good? LOL IM SORRY I JUST HAD TO DO IT!!!! :bolt:

And John man, don't you pay no mind to any haters man, I'm also a noob and ask a lot of questions, and what happens is that you get some really good info from some really good guys and form friendships with your fellow BOTL's. Seriously, props to you for asking and stating your opinions. oh yah, DON'T LET THE MAN GET YOU DOWN! :rockon:


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## x man (Oct 21, 2009)

When you smoke a 1998 Punch that tastes like a hickory smoked porterhouse
steak, you wont have to ask this question again.


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## Snake Hips (May 30, 2008)

Nurse_Maduro said:


> Ok, straight up: This post is NOT an attempt at trolling. Rather, it's a serious attempt to understand why some people are all about CCs only, and denounce NC sticks.
> 
> While I may never have tried one (believe it or not; I was actually standing in a humidor in Canada last year and, knowing that it's illegal for me to partake even if in another country, I just couldn't bring myself to do it. I know, I know. But then, I even put my turn signal on when leaving my driveway.), but I do have some thought behind my reasoning that CCs just can't be as big a deal as some make them out to be.
> 
> ...


I see you have many, many misconceptions, young grasshopper.

*1:* This would be why Cuba has a back-stock of tobacco to use in these cases. If the crop is completely annihilated one year, they will still be able to produce the full range of cigars that year. They also have a huge back-stock of 50 million actual cigars. As a side-note, Cuban tobacco crops do not sit on an archipelago - they sit only in certain valleys only on the one island, mostly in a single area: La Vuelta Abajo.

*2:* Most aficionados do NOT agree - most aficionados know that most Cubans are much cheaper than non-Cuban cigars for comparable levels of quality. Also, adressing your point about Punch, there's really no risk to speak of.

*3:* The tobacco is not young, but aged like non-Cubans. Since 2006 most vitolas have utilized aged filler tobaccos and are ready to smoke from day 1, and have been very enjoyable fresh.

*4:* Honduras does not have Cuba's climate or its soil or its tobacco. That's why Cuban tobacco tastes so much different.

*5:* The seeds are not what make the tobacco, first of all - it is the climate and soil, which only Cuba has. Second of all, Cuba no longer uses the same tobacco it did when the exiles fled in the '60s. A Punch grown in Honduras tastes completely different than a Punch grown in Cuba, because the tobaccos are completely different strains, they were raised in completely different climates and soils, and the cigars were blended by completely different people.

Many people, including myself, find most non-Cubans inferior simply because they taste inferior to those individuals. Cuban tobacco has a different taste, a more complex taste and a smoother taste, that many prefer over non-Cuban tobacco. It's a preference, like preferring the power and flavor of Nicaraguan tobacco over the mild and mineral flavor of Dominican. On top of it, they're cheaper. The forbidden fruit aspect cannot possibly be a factor, as Cuban cigars vastly outsell non-Cuban cigars in every market in the world except the United States.

Hope that adds a little more to your understanding


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## RobustBrad (Oct 20, 2009)

Trev said:


> ound:
> You guys crack me up!
> Gimme a cohiba and a pepsi.


Hilarious.


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## eyesack (Jul 19, 2009)

Omahgawd Art, I was very generously gifted one of those, and it still ranks in the top 2 smokes I've ever had, the other being a Tatuaje East Coast... Both were so delicious... hehe

Ok, I just wanted to post this link from Wikipedia on the term "Terroir"

Terroir is the term that would encapsulate all of the soil-composition/climate/regional discrepancy attributes between not only Cuban and Non-Cuban tobacco, but others as well. The term, I believe was first coined for use in the wine industry, but I like to use it when talking about cigars and coffee.

If you've ever had single-origin of either coffee or cigars you know that each origin has different offerings of flavor profile, strength, body, and other stuff that I'm a little too noobish to pick up. It just so happens that many people that have had a good CC enjoy these attributes that makes a Cuban Puro what it is. Others might like Nicaraguan puros. I myself am still sampling everything but I know that I'm not a huge fan of Connecticut wrapped cigars atm.

I hope I got some of that info right. lol.


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## smelvis (Sep 7, 2009)

One more then I'm done. LOL
I did get a few boxes on advice from here, Cohiba Robusto, Partagas 898 and Shorts.

Conclusion boy are they good and I can only imagine them getting better, I'm going for the fuller strength stuff now. I pray they are a delicious with age as I remember 20 odd years ago.

I still like my Dominicans though! 

OKay off a on lane: run. :thumb:


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## x man (Oct 21, 2009)

x man said:


> When you smoke a 1998 Punch that tastes like a hickory smoked porterhouse
> steak, you wont have to ask this question again.


Terroir also refers to minerals indigenous to varying latitudes.


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## mash (Jul 24, 2007)

mash said:


> Exactly. That was my issue with the OP.
> If you've never tried a CC, it sounds foolish to say "but I'm going to tell you why they're no big deal compared to an NC". After this statement, they invariably say that CC smokers are biased and close-minded.
> Do you see the irony now?
> 
> BTW CC's are not more expensive than similarly priced NC's, this just flat out isn't true.





Nurse_Maduro said:


> *I'd see the irony if I actually had said, "I'm going to tell you why they're no big deal compared to an NC." Instead, I offered the only viewpoint I had, and ASKED PEOPLE WHO HAD DIFFERENT EXPERIENCES THAN MINE TO PLEASE EDUCATE ME.*
> 
> Jesus dude, is this really _that _hard to understand? I get that you have heard this a million times before, but I haven't. This is my first time to the Havana board and, more than likely, my last.
> 
> ...


You seem confused about what you said. This is from your original post:

*CCs just can't be as big a deal as some make them out to be.*

I read the thread just fine. I only say that you should not be making statements like this if you have never smoked a Cuban cigar. Besides, what does it matter what other people think of CC's? Especially if you respect your embargo and won't smoke them? It's really academic isn't it?
I see in these threads that no one convinces anyone of anything. They just go on and on.
Nothing personal from my side either. Smoke what you like and what you can. If the day comes that you can smoke CC's, they either will change your mind or they won't, regardless of what anyone else says or thinks. Like everyone else in this thread, my mind is made up.


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## Hawnted (Oct 20, 2009)

I have never had one but I would imagine the forbidden fruit mentality would factor in...


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## burnsco (Mar 26, 2009)

ccs arent forbidden fruit up here in canada. I just find them tasty as hell compared to ncs.


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## bruins72 (Nov 8, 2009)

The taste of a good cuban is very unique, That being said, I have had some real cubans that were just meh.
I mostly smoke nics because I like the flavor profile. I have a cc stash and I will be buying more soon, they just have such a unique taste. Most of my favorite cigars are $2-$6 bought on auction or special. I do have a very hard time spending $8+ on any cigars unless I'm in the B&M buying a single or two.
Smoke what you like and like what you smoke.


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## asmartbull (Aug 16, 2009)

burnsco said:


> ccs arent forbidden fruit up here in canada. I just find them tasty as hell compared to ncs.


Thought CC were legal in Canada
The are a lot of internet "cc" companies north of the US
The taxes / prices are just incredible


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## Cigary (Oct 19, 2007)

asmartbull said:


> Thought CC were legal in Canada
> The are a lot of internet "cc" companies north of the US
> The taxes / prices are just incredible


They are legal,,,its just the pricing that should be illegal. I have seen prices in Canada on cubans that made me want to puke,,,unf'n real.

You have to scratch your head and think that you can order CC's into a country where it is illegal to buy them but yet the pricing you can get is much cheaper than selling it to a country where it's legal but yet costs you your firstborne. The world does not always spin in the right direction.:crash:


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## Herf N Turf (Dec 31, 2008)

Cigary said:


> They are legal,,,its just the pricing that should be illegal. I have seen prices in Canada on cubans that made me want to puke,,,unf'n real.
> 
> You have to scratch your head and think that you can order CC's into a country where it is illegal to buy them but yet the pricing you can get is much cheaper than selling it to a country where it's legal but yet costs you your firstborne. The world does not always spin in the right direction.:crash:


Welcome to Socialism.

How else are you going to pay for entitlement healthcare?

A good cc is a great cigar. A mediocre one is just that. Smoke what suits your own, personal fancy and don't let anyone's opinion override your own. Smoke what you like.


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## havanajohn (Apr 4, 2009)

Herf N Turf said:


> Welcome to Socialism.
> 
> How else are you going to pay for entitlement healthcare?
> 
> A good cc is a great cigar. A mediocre one is just that. Smoke what suits your own, personal fancy and don't let anyone's opinion override your own. Smoke what you like.


 Well said, Don.


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## piperdown (Jul 19, 2009)

x man said:


> When you smoke a 1998 Punch that tastes like a hickory smoked porterhouse
> steak, you wont have to ask this question again.


I'm sorry that just sounds wrong! :crazy: 
Besides what if you're not thinking and take a bite?! :biglaugh:

But hey, that's just my opinion!


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## Stinkdyr (Jun 19, 2009)

bruins72 said:


> The taste of a good cuban is very unique, That being said, I have had some real cubans that were just meh.
> I mostly smoke nics because I like the flavor profile. I have a cc stash and I will be buying more soon, they just have such a unique taste. Most of my favorite cigars are $2-$6 bought on auction or special. I do have a very hard time spending $8+ on any cigars unless I'm in the B&M buying a single or two.
> Smoke what you like and like what you smoke.


I agree with all of this.....exactly.


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## Bigtotoro (Jul 5, 2009)

Every six weeks someone starts one of these threads. For future reference:

Its because the ceiling on a CC is higher than the ceiling on a NC. Not to say that there are not bad CCs (there are), but a great CC is better than a great NC. So, to sum up, they are better. When you have a great CC, you will know. It will NOT make you love your Opus and Padrons any less.


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## Cigary (Oct 19, 2007)

Bigtotoro said:


> Every six weeks someone starts one of these threads. For future reference:
> 
> Its because the ceiling on a CC is higher than the ceiling on a NC. Not to say that there are not bad CCs (there are), but a great CC is better than a great NC. So, to sum up, they are better. When you have a great CC, you will know. It will take make you love your Opus and Padrons any less.


I love my CC's and my Opus along with the Padrons. I'd have to say those are probably the best gars out there IMHO. I don't know how much less I could love these little suckers,,,they make me happy!:lalala::banana:


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## K Baz (Mar 2, 2007)

Okay only 3 points.

Cubans if bought correctly are the same if not cheaper then most NC (excluded RE LE behikes etc)

I would say dollar for dollar most cubans are a better value.

And they are not better (unless you think they are) and quite frankily every one should stop smoking them (but me).

Smoke what you like - the rest be damned I hate the Bolivar BBF everyone else loves it - am I wrong...HELL NO! are they wrong...hell no (other then not siding with me - thats wrong).


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## BigRonS (Apr 5, 2008)

anybody who is in here comparing Opus' to Cubans should be laughed right off of this website..


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## Bigtotoro (Jul 5, 2009)

Right, typing error. It will NOT make you love your Opus(s) any less.


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## Cigary (Oct 19, 2007)

BigRonS said:


> anybody who is in here comparing Opus' to Cubans should be laughed right off of this website..


I'll stand up and compare em,,,,here's an Opus and here's a CC. Yep, they are comparable in that an Opus is one of the best NC's there is and a Cohiba, Partagas, Bolivar, Rass are some of the best CC's there are. If I were to say which is the better cigar,,,I really couldn't tell you. .:madgrin:


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## eyesack (Jul 19, 2009)

BigRonS said:


> anybody who is in here comparing Opus' to Cubans should be laughed right off of this website..


Anybody who's comparing personal preference should be laughed right off this website... Ooooh snap!

But seriously, what's the big deal about having a '69 Camaro? Sure they might be the Holy Grail for some Chevy muscle-car fans, but for someone like me who's more into the import scene, I'd rather have an RX-7. In that case, what's the big deal about having an RX-7?

:deadhorse::deadhorse::deadhorse::deadhorse:


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## BigRonS (Apr 5, 2008)

eyesack said:


> Anybody who's comparing personal preference should be laughed right off this website... Ooooh snap!


if i gave you a few rare vintage cubans out of my humidor, you'd change your tune quicker then a cocaine heartbeat 

OO SNAP!


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## Jack Straw (Nov 20, 2008)

Personally I think a good cigar is a good cigar, and that people who discount one or the other as being inherently inferior are missing out.



Nurse_Maduro said:


> Ok, straight up: This post is NOT an attempt at trolling. Rather, it's a serious attempt to understand why some people are all about CCs only, and denounce NC sticks.
> 
> While I may never have tried one (believe it or not; I was actually standing in a humidor in Canada last year and, knowing that it's illegal for me to partake even if in another country, I just couldn't bring myself to do it. I know, I know. But then, I even put my turn signal on when leaving my driveway.), but I do have some thought behind my reasoning that CCs just can't be as big a deal as some make them out to be.
> 
> ...


Hopefully those answers help!


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## Habanolover (Feb 22, 2006)

BigRonS said:


> if i gave you a few rare vintage cubans out of my humidor, you'd change your tune quicker then a cocaine heartbeat
> 
> OO SNAP!


His address is listed in his User profile


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## ssutton219 (Apr 17, 2007)

madurolover said:


> His address is listed in his User profile


Trying to make th poor kid go mad???

This is the same thing every time...SMOKE WHAT YOU LIKE AND LIKE WHAT YOU SMOKE

some are better than others and that the joy in the adventure!

Shawn


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## mrsmitty (Jan 22, 2009)

ssutton219 said:


> Trying to make th poor kid go mad???
> 
> This is the same thing every time...SMOKE WHAT YOU LIKE AND LIKE WHAT YOU SMOKE
> 
> ...


100% Agreed. I'm sure I enjoy some cigars many don't like, and you know what that's fine.


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## burnsco (Mar 26, 2009)

I think the percentage of good CC's is far higher then NC's. You could try 10 different cubans and most likely 8 of them would be really good. Where if you were to try 10 different NC's you could possibly not like any of them very much. That could also be because most CC's are expensive and high quality, there aren't many that are easy on the pocket!


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## eyesack (Jul 19, 2009)

You, Mr. Ron, go pick on someone your own size and leave my nooby arse outta this! ahaha! You guys are such bullies.:bawling: lol I didn't mean any harm!
lol wat is this guy?:nerd:<-- I swear I see new smiley faces every other day haha k sorry back on topic


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## Snake Hips (May 30, 2008)

burnsco said:


> I think the percentage of good CC's is far higher then NC's. You could try 10 different cubans and most likely 8 of them would be really good. Where if you were to try 10 different NC's you could possibly not like any of them very much. That could also be because most CC's are expensive and high quality, there aren't many that are easy on the pocket!


I can agree and disagree to this. In my personal experience, Habanos have more of a "learning curve" so to speak. I find Habanos to have a flavor you have to "adapt to," in that you won't discover the "magic" immediately. So someone who hasn't gone to Habanos will usually smoke a number of them before they come across "The One" that converts them. Once one has been opened to the world of Habanos, what you say is generally true - more often than not they're good. But I find them more finicky, personally. They seem more susceptible to unpleasantness in slightly less-than-optimal conditions, such as a little too humid, or a little too young, or just got a poor box, or got thin wrappers that make the whole thing taste like cardboard. When stored ideally, they can be counted on. Whereas non-Cubans can be sampled time and time again, stored the same way and aged similarly, and result in a huge disparity in experience. I sample cigars from the humidor of my local B&M (I get a $60 "allowance" of whatever merchandise I want every month), and so everything I sample is stored exactly the same, and multiple examples of the same cigar are from the same box and thus aged similarly. And yet, there are very, very few non-Cuban cigars I've tried that gave me anywhere near the same experience three times in a row - usually it's a very good smoke the first time, terrible the next and bland the third. Whereas with Habanos I can usually count on a similar experience every time, be it good or bad. Three cigars from the same box of non-Cubans usually yields me an experience from fantastic to terrible. Three cigars from the same box of Cubans usually yields me three fantastic experiences, three bland experiences or three terrible experiences.

As to your final sentence, I would consider "most" Habanos to be of average quality, and most of them are very easy on the pocket compared to non-Cubans!


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## eyesack (Jul 19, 2009)

Wow, Snake, I'm surprised you've had that much variance in your NC smoking experiences. Maybe they are getting TOO much time? From what I read, I thought there has been more 'luck-of-the-draw' type stuff with the habanos? 

(<---Still learning)


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## Addiction (May 8, 2007)

burnsco said:


> I think the percentage of good CC's is far higher then NC's. You could try 10 different cubans and most likely 8 of them would be really good. Where if you were to try 10 different NC's you could possibly not like any of them very much. That could also be because most CC's are expensive and high quality, there aren't many that are easy on the pocket!


A couple of thoughts on this:

1. I don't know that the first point, 8 of 10 Cubans are good, is right on. As someone who relatively recently went through conversion it took me maybe 5-6 Cubans before one stuck, it was an 06 PLPC from N3uka that set the lightbulb on in my head. After that a QDO Corona. And after that Siglo II that made me want to slap my momma for teaching me smoking was bad sigh. Once you "click" I think you greatly prefer them, but before that its not a given.

I think its because NCs are heavier than CCs. NCs are kinda in your face and I as an NC smoker often confused power with flavor. Once I started to snork and follow nuance then I came to appreciate NCs much more.

2. On a per cigar basis CCs are cheaper than NCs, mostly. But I also think this is a misnomer, at least a little bit. For example you can get a cab of PLPCs for $200 these days. That averages out to $4 a stick and in my experience the PLPC, for my tastes is preferable to Pepins, Tats, VSGs, Padrons etc. However most decent $4 NC (are there any decent $4 NCs post ScHIP?) are much larger than PLPCs. I've always wondered if I went to stores and found the PLPC equivalent and took the sticks from the box what the price per ounce would end up and how that would compare with a PLPC per ounce price. I'm willing to wager that Cuban tobacco on average is cheaper, tho not as cheap as we like to imagine.

3. Most Cubans are not expensive or high quality. Most Cubans appear at the lower end of the range and are medium to high quality. You have to play in the RE, EL Cohiba space before everything gets expensive. But those cigars are typically made by the best rollers using the best tobacco. Supposedly lol.


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## Snake Hips (May 30, 2008)

eyesack said:


> Wow, Snake, I'm surprised you've had that much variance in your NC smoking experiences. Maybe they are getting TOO much time? From what I read, I thought there has been more 'luck-of-the-draw' type stuff with the habanos?
> 
> (<---Still learning)


From what there is around to read, I would have come to that conclusion too, but I haven't. By all means, Habanos should be the luck-of-the-draw contender, and apparently they are to everyone but me, lol. There are only a few non-Cubans that I can count on for a similar experience every time, but I can count on most Habanos every time, provided they're from the same box.


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## eyesack (Jul 19, 2009)

Snake Hips said:


> There are only a few non-Cubans that I can count on for a similar experience every time, but I can count on most Habanos every time, *provided they're from the same box.*


I see... That must be where the discrepancy lies!


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## Snake Hips (May 30, 2008)

eyesack said:


> I see... That must be where the discrepancy lies!


It is indeed! For example, I own 4 boxes of Punch Coronas. Each of the boxes contain cigars that are slightly different in taste, but each cigar from the same box tastes exactly the same as the last.

But with non-Cubans, it seems it doesn't matter. Either it's a good one or not, and I'm just not meant to consistently enjoy many of them


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