# Cigars - how often can I smoke to keep this is hobby, not an addiction?



## HighNoon (Jun 17, 2015)

I am new to the sport and of course the hardest part for me is to have moderation since I want to try all the cigars out there. I really have no interest in nicotine (lived this long without it, don't need an addiction.) Is it reasonable for me to think I can have a cigar hobby without an addiction? How often generally should I enjoy a cigar to keep that goal in check?

Nicotine hasn't really seemed to affect me unless I had big cigars or multiples in the same day. I am trying to find medium to full flavors stogies with mild to med strength. Tough part is that it seems the strength is up there in many of the med to full flavor cigars.

I know it is different for each of us, but just wanted some guidelines as I never was a smoker of any kind.

Thank you all,


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## quazy50 (Aug 6, 2007)

I generally smoke at most twice a week. I think there are people here who smoke 2 or 3 a day and probably aren't addicted. Do you have an addictive personality? Some people seemed to have more trouble with addiction than others. I feel like you can't go wrong with twice a week but that's just me. I have never had a "craving" for a cigar.


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## Cigar Guru (Dec 22, 2012)

HighNoon said:


> Is it reasonable for me to think I have have a cigar hobby without for an addiction? How often generally should I enjoy a cigar to keep that goal in check?


I don't understand what you mean.


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## HighNoon (Jun 17, 2015)

quazy50 said:


> Do you have an addictive personality? Some people seemed to have more trouble with addiction than others. I feel like you can't go wrong with twice a week but that's just me. I have never had a "craving" for a cigar.


I tackle most things with tremendous curiosity and drive - but I don't believe I have an addictive personality (I manage to brew beer and drink moderately ). I do think with regard to cigars this will work against me if I try to "get up to speed" by tasting many often of course. I think for me I need to take my time with the journey and not take on more than a few a week as you are suggesting. Thank you


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## NormH3 (Apr 20, 2015)

I got up to almost 2 per day a few weeks ago, but haven't had one in over a week now. Tonight may be a good night though.


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## HighNoon (Jun 17, 2015)

Cigar Guru said:


> I don't understand what you mean.


I meant to say the following - looks like the keyboard got away from me....

"Is it reasonable for me to have a cigar hobby without an addiction to nicotine forming? If yes, how often generally should I enjoy a cigar to keep that goal in check [the goal of not becoming addicted to nicotine]?"

What i mean is, does cigar smoking generally lead to a smoking addition like with cigarettes. This is a question to guys who have been enjoying cigars for many years. I am new to the hobby, and have only been smoking cigars for several months.

I know cigars are different in delivery and less addictive than cigarettes so long as you are not chain smoking them and not inhaling cigars. When I smoke the cigars I don't suck or chew the tip to help reduce nicotine from that that aspect of the delivery. I know I am exposing myself to nicotine at a slower delivery than cigarettes. I am not sure how much I and taking in and how much it would take to become addicted.



NormH3 said:


> I got up to almost 2 per day a few weeks ago, but haven't had one in over a week now. Tonight may be a good night though.


I was smoking 2 a day for a week and then said,... this is crazy! lol Really I just want to find some solid cigars and get them stored in my humidor for 1-2 on the weekends. What I didn't realize when I started that search was that there are TONS of cigars out there.


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## Cigary (Oct 19, 2007)

Addictive personalities are subject to traditional values.....if you find yourself craving something and can't fight off the urges then that's one value...another one is if you can't step away from it for a few weeks or a good month w/o fidgeting or thinking about having one then that's another value. Nicotine is something that affects people differently....I can walk away from cigars for a year or more and not feel any effects as I have done plenty of times. Moderation is the key to anything.


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## rartuso (Nov 12, 2014)

Addicted to smoking 1 or 2 a week no. Addicted to buying everyday? Yes. Its the buying that gets me.


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## Shemp75 (May 26, 2012)

I don't smoke cigars for the "Nicotine"


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## elco69 (May 1, 2013)

rartuso said:


> Addicted to smoking 1 or 2 a week no. Addicted to buying everyday? Yes. Its the buying that gets me.


Same here....I can smoke 2 a day and then go weeks without smoking any.


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## samiam2007 (Aug 24, 2012)

I wouldn't gauge it by "if I smoke X cigars a day, then I will become addicted". An addictive personality definitely could be something that would be a cue to you. Do you tend to hyperfocus on something/anything? That could be a cue for an addictive personality. 

On the other hand, you can just become addicted without any real warning. My uncle walked into a bar and had a drink - his first drink ever - and was addicted. I also have those friends that never grew out of college and get trashed every night and are not addicted. It is just all about your mind and health and how that plays with each other.


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## HighNoon (Jun 17, 2015)

samiam2007 said:


> I wouldn't gauge it by "if I smoke X cigars a day, then I will become addicted". An addictive personality definitely could be something that would be a cue to you. Do you tend to hyperfocus on something/anything? That could be a cue for an addictive personality.
> 
> On the other hand, you can just become addicted without any real warning. My uncle walked into a bar and had a drink - his first drink ever - and was addicted. I also have those friends that never grew out of college and get trashed every night and are not addicted. It is just all about your mind and health and how that plays with each other.


I understand what you are getting at. But there is a physiological aspect to nicotine that plays a significant role in addiction. This is the area of concern for me since I have little experience with tobacco and nicotine.

With cigarettes, if you smoke x a day, you become addicted based on the physiological changes that occur due to nicotene. Many ex cigarette smokers will point out the differences between being addicted to cigarettes andenjoying cigars without cravings. This is good to hear.

I am more worried about constant research and buying that compulsion to smoke.


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## Ming on Mongo (May 15, 2015)

HighNoon said:


> I am new to the sport and of course the hardest part for me is to have moderation since I want to try all the cigars out there. I really have no interest in nicotine (lived this long without it, don't need an addiction.) Is it reasonable for me to think I can have a cigar hobby without an addiction? How often generally should I enjoy a cigar to keep that goal in check?


Personally have gone thru 'phases" over several years, where I pick it up for awhile and then for one reason or another lose interest. But being retired and a sucker for 'novelty', that's kinda how I am with everything.&#8230; winemaking, motorcycles, computers, the arts, welding, remodeling, whatever. Lately have become very interested in 'rolling my own', so am obviously smoking more these days, occasionally up to maybe 3 or 4 a day, which may vary from a cheroot to a robusto. So unless you feel some sorta 'craving' (aka, "addiction"), perhaps one way to gauge it is by comparison to how you usually approach all new "hobbies", perhaps with a lot of initial enthusiasm, that eventually tapers off and finds its own 'level'.

Also IMHO weighing any impact on your health should be a factor, so naturally pay attention to any noticeable cough, or mouth soreness, as some folks have less 'tolerance' than others. Though like most anything in life, overall I'd consider it a 'problem' only if it starts to have a 'negative impact' in any way&#8230; but otherwise, enjoy! 
:beerchug:


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## HighNoon (Jun 17, 2015)

Ming on Mongo said:


> Personally have gone thru 'phases" over several years, where I pick it up for awhile and then for one reason or another lose interest.


I hear you - guilty! Usually for me though many make it for long term (brewing beer, keeping bees, apple orchard/pressing cider, reloading, the list goes on). But I tend to keep the long term ones going in phases like you mention.



Ming on Mongo said:


> perhaps one way to gauge it is by comparison to how you usually approach all new "hobbies", perhaps with a lot of initial enthusiasm, that eventually tapers off and finds its own 'level'.


Very similar. The only thing holding me back from learning as fast as I would like is that I really can't smoke more than 1 large cigar medium to full bodied and taste a second one well in the same day. So far I seem to like the medium to full bodied and not really care for the milds.



Ming on Mongo said:


> Also IMHO weighing any impact on your health should be a factor, so naturally pay attention to any noticeable cough, or mouth soreness, as some folks have less 'tolerance' than others. Though like most anything in life, overall I'd consider it a 'problem' only if it starts to have a 'negative impact' in any way&#8230; but otherwise, enjoy!
> :beerchug:


I agree with this 100%. My naivety with nicotine (and lots of tobacco commercials) encouraged me to post this thread.


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## garublador (Jun 5, 2014)

I'll start this with a disclaimer that I'm not a doctor or have any training in addiction counseling or anything like that. This is all based on personal experience and anecdotal evidence.



HighNoon said:


> I am more worried about constant research and buying that compulsion to smoke.


That's the sort of "addiction" that most have with cigars. As this thread is showing, few seem to get physically addicted to the nicotine where they'll see symptoms of withdrawal (it's usually the opposite where people see negative effects from getting too much at one time).

When you look at it as if cigars were like cigarettes it makes sense to worry about physical addiction. There are a lot of people addicted to cigarettes who try many times and fail to quit. This isn't the most positive analogy, but in some ways cigar smoking is more like drinking alcohol. Most won't do it many times during the day and might only have one or two at night, or some on the weekends. Some will binge on the weekends to the point of getting sick from time to time, but a vast majority of these people aren't physically addicted to alcohol. The desire to drink because you like the taste and buzz is addictive, but you won't see actual withdrawal symptoms if you don't drink some Friday night.

Here's another way to put it: sure single malt scotch has a lot of alcohol per unit volume, which is addictive, but few become alcoholics when they find out they like single malt scotch. Many look to try as many different scotches as possible and look forward to having a dram at night, but if there's a month where they can't drink at all they won't get the shivers, get irritable or have it affect their life outside of wishing they could have a dram. That's the same sort of thing I've found most cigar aficionados experience.


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## ghe-cl (Apr 9, 2005)

As the earlier poster noted, I'm not a doctor. But I believe from research and much personal experience of my own and that of others that few people who smoke premium, hand-rolled cigars and do not inhale are ever addicted to nicotine. I smoked cigarettes for decades before quitting. A cigarette is a nicotine delivery device, pure and simple. Nicotine is, for most people, a very addictive drug. If you inhale burning tobacco products, you will likely become addicted to nicotine, which I was. Years after quitting cigarettes, I began smoking premium cigars and have now done so for years. There is no comparison between the two. I could never have another cigar and feel absolutely no ill effects, compulsions or physical craving.


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## Ming on Mongo (May 15, 2015)

Well, apparently the average cigarette in the United States contains about 9mg of nicotine, although the amount of nicotine that actually enters the body via inhaling is typically less than 1mg.

But studies of cigar smokers have shown that the nicotine is absorbed differently, and faster, via the oral mucosa. And while the cigars of test subjects contained a total of 16 mg of nicotine, the average dose of nicotine actually ingested was between 2.1 mg to 4.5 mg per cigar, still obviously more than any single cigarette. Which is to say that cigars are also a sort of nicotine "delivery system", no matter how you look at it… along with the attendant "risks" (possible addiction, health issues, second hand smoke, etc.).

All that said, everything in life always carries some risk, whether driving, flying, boating, exercise, sex, using other stimulants, whatever… but IMHO the trick is exercising appropriate "risk management".


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## pflau (Apr 22, 2015)

I can't smoke too many too often or I lose my taste buds so it's self limiting. I smoke 1-2 a day and in weekend 2-3 a day. During winter I go into detox because I only smoke outside or with windows open.


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## ghe-cl (Apr 9, 2005)

Ming on Mongo said:


> Well, apparently the average cigarette in the United States contains about 9mg of nicotine, although the amount of nicotine that actually enters the body via inhaling is typically less than 1mg.
> 
> But studies of cigar smokers have shown that the nicotine is absorbed differently, and faster, via the oral mucosa. And while the cigars of test subjects contained a total of 16 mg of nicotine, the average dose of nicotine actually ingested was between 2.1 mg to 4.5 mg per cigar, still obviously more than any single cigarette. Which is to say that cigars are also a sort of nicotine "delivery system", no matter how you look at it&#8230; along with the attendant "risks" (possible addiction, health issues, second hand smoke, etc.).
> 
> All that said, everything in life always carries some risk, whether driving, flying, boating, exercise, sex, using other stimulants, whatever&#8230; but IMHO the trick is exercising appropriate "risk management".


I would be curious to read the source for your figures, particularly to see whether there's any distinguishing between premium, hand-rolled cigars and drug store cigars with reconstituted tobacco and additives. I'd be flabbergasted if there was, since almost no studies of cigars make such a distinction. Can you post the source? Thanks.


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## Ming on Mongo (May 15, 2015)

ghe said:


> I would be curious to read the source for your figures, particularly to see whether there's any distinguishing between premium, hand-rolled cigars and drug store cigars with reconstituted tobacco and additives. I'd be flabbergasted if there was, since almost no studies of cigars make such a distinction. Can you post the source? Thanks.


No doubt your Google works as well as mine does, so not sure what your point is, or even where we 'disagree'?


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## SDR88 (Mar 13, 2015)

I smoke between 1-4 a week and then sometimes I go weeks without one.


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## bobaglass (Jun 26, 2015)

no substance can take away your ability stop. the real question should be do you feel you have the personality that is indicative of an addict? if you feel you lack self control stop now.

but comparing cigars to cigs is like apples and oranges. different delivery systems of nicotene. but cigars tend to be used less frequently and if used in moderation are a much lower health risk. your biggest risk is oral cancer. just keep up with your dentist. make sure hes checking your soft tissues. and maybe buy a mouth mirror to check yourself for possible leukoplakic areas. the most common area for this to form is on the gums just below the lower front teeth. red inflammation is expected with cigar smokers. white slick spots need to be addressed immediately.


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## frankD (Apr 10, 2015)

...........what i do is have a few boxes of DiNOBLI sticks on hand to temper the urge for a full-sized stick..........at five smokes to a box and a 100 stick order (20 individual boxes) about $50 FOR ME they are a perfect twenty minute "taste"........in the olde dayz these were known as "guinea stinkers" but they are really consistently made from tennessee / pennsylvania / kentucky tobacco and do indeed sell in the millions of sticks for many many years now.............i'm a fan for decades..............recently read CHRIST IN CONCRETE @ 1937 mentioned this brand as dominant among italians immigrants


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## elco69 (May 1, 2013)

I think with this hobby, it is not worry about addiction but the association. I associate relaxing with a cigar. If I am just lazing around the livingroom watching tv, I start to think, a cigar would be nice right now. Or if the weather is nice and I want to sit outside, I also think cigar. However, with busy days or days I am doing/going a lot, I don't think about it at all. For the past couple of months, I have been probably averaging a little over 1 a day, but right now (Monday) I haven't had one since last Wed/Thurs and I am not craving or dying to have one. Now I will say this, I am kinda addicted to looking and getting good deals on my cigars. The cigars that I like and buy are generally in the $8-$12 range so if I can save $30-$50+ a box, I pull out my credit card before my brain says "Hey you got enough"


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## Ming on Mongo (May 15, 2015)

frankD said:


> ...........what i do is have a few boxes of DiNOBLI sticks on hand to temper the urge for a full-sized stick..........at five smokes to a box and a 100 stick order (20 individual boxes) about $50 FOR ME they are a perfect twenty minute "taste"........in the olde dayz these were known as "guinea stinkers" but they are really consistently made from tennessee / pennsylvania / kentucky tobacco and do indeed sell in the millions of sticks for many many years now.............i'm a fan for decades..............recently read CHRIST IN CONCRETE @ 1937 mentioned this brand as dominant among italians immigrants


Yup, and Parodis were the other ones. My grandfather, straight from the 'old country', would come home from work and loved to smoke one while sitting next to a coffee-can 'spitoon'&#8230; for when he finally got down to the juicy nub (his favorite part)! :mrgreen:


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## frankD (Apr 10, 2015)

Ming on Mongo said:


> .............and Parodis were the other ones............
> View attachment 52904


.............yes, i have had them as well


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## Aquaelvis (Jun 23, 2015)

Good post, OP you sound just like me. I got into this, loved it and then started looking at all the stuff I needed to try! There are so many, doing it slowly will take me years. (Doing it quickly will still take a long time to get to all of them!) 
I'm addicted to trying at this point. I have bought a lot of cigars lately. ($430 on cbid this week, $200 the week before and I'm sure it's $400-$600 now) That doesn't include the other sites and daily deals. 
And of that,there are only a few boxes, most at 5 packs. So it's safe to say that I have a huge selection right now. I'm too excited to try them to wait, so I've been smoking 2-3 a day on the weekends and 1 a day during the week. (Sometimes 2 if I get off work early enough) 
I have your same concerns about nicotine though. I have no need for that chemical so I am trying to cut back. It's so hard though when there are 10-12 different sticks in the humie I'm dying to try, and more coming all the time! 
I am slowing down on the buying though, I've got plenty for now. I'll sell off some of these extras to my buddies too. 
Pretty sure my wife is going to FREAK OUT when the visa bill comes


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## StogieNinja (Jul 29, 2009)

I set a hard limit of 3 per week, with a goal of 2 per week, about six years ago. That kept me in check for a long time, through the newbie excitement, and when I developed my palate, etc. 

Now that I've been at it regularly for a long time, I no longer adhere to a strict limit, but rarely do I go above that original limit (only twice this year, both during vacations). I will occasionally take some time off, just to ensure that I can.

The important thing as a newcomer is to recognize the risks, your own personality (are you compulsive?), and have someone else around to keep you in check. My wife had significant concerns about me becoming a regular smoker, so we set the original limit together, and she held me accountable to it... but I wanted to be held accountable. If you're worried about addiction, find someone to keep you in check.


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## frankD (Apr 10, 2015)

Aninjaforallseasons said:


> ..............The important thing as a newcomer is to recognize the risks, your own personality (are you compulsive?), ...............


.........also the TRIGGERs, like with me it's a crossword puzzle or reading a book..........i smoke until i'm finished PUZZLING or READING, and can go three to five sticks in succession over a weekend morning puzzle or during the early evening reading a book ..............just sayin

frankD


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## Steve C. (Jun 16, 2015)

Aquaelvis said:


> Good post, OP you sound just like me. I got into this, loved it and then started looking at all the stuff I needed to try! There are so many, doing it slowly will take me years. (Doing it quickly will still take a long time to get to all of them!)
> I'm addicted to trying at this point. I have bought a lot of cigars lately. ($430 on cbid this week, $200 the week before and I'm sure it's $400-$600 now) That doesn't include the other sites and daily deals.
> And of that,there are only a few boxes, most at 5 packs. So it's safe to say that I have a huge selection right now. I'm too excited to try them to wait, so I've been smoking 2-3 a day on the weekends and 1 a day during the week. (Sometimes 2 if I get off work early enough)
> I have your same concerns about nicotine though. I have no need for that chemical so I am trying to cut back. It's so hard though when there are 10-12 different sticks in the humie I'm dying to try, and more coming all the time!
> ...


A cigar rep who was at a B&M event told me that there were about 800 new cigars that came out just last year. You'll never catch up by only smoking one new one a day. That is also my dilemma.


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## Steve C. (Jun 16, 2015)

If you forsake your nice 70 degree house to sit outside on your patio for about two hours at a time in 105 degree heat and high humidity, it could be an indication that you have an addiction tendency. Denial is not a river in Egypt. :lol:


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## whodeeni (Nov 3, 2009)

HighNoon said:


> I tackle most things with tremendous curiosity and drive - but I don't believe I have an addictive personality (I manage to brew beer and drink moderately ). I do think with regard to cigars this will work against me if I try to "get up to speed" by tasting many often of course. I think for me I need to take my time with the journey and not take on more than a few a week as you are suggesting. Thank you


Nothing wrong with experimenting! Buy some relatively inexpensive samplers from the guys here and continue trying them at your leisure. Eventually, you will come across some that you really enjoy, and you can seek to buy them in a greater quantity.

Take your time, and enjoy the ride Brotha!&#128521;


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## whodeeni (Nov 3, 2009)

frankD said:


> .............yes, i have had them as well


Dry cured tobacco at it's finest!&#128521;


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## whodeeni (Nov 3, 2009)

Steve C. said:


> A cigar rep who was at a B&M event told me that there were about 800 new cigars that came out just last year. You'll never catch up by only smoking one new one a day. That is also my dilemma.


&#128513;&#128514;&#128512; I know right!


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## frankD (Apr 10, 2015)

.
................."there were about 800 new cigars that came out just last year"

it is daunting but narrow it down by brands and then cigar siZes that you already enjoy and radiate out from there


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## HighNoon (Jun 17, 2015)

Steve C. said:


> A cigar rep who was at a B&M event told me that there were about 800 new cigars that came out just last year. You'll never catch up by only smoking one new one a day. That is also my dilemma.


If you guys can let me know which ones are worth buying out of that 800, it would really lower my workload lol!

I am not worried about setting limitation/goals either. As with all my hobies and with my work i am very goal oriented. I like to take a step back and look at the big picture. That means for me personally this is a hobby with a budget. I need to keep it reasonable no matter what the lure because,... it is a hobby. 

I was mostly concerned with how addictive nicotine is for cigar smokers. Some reading leads you to believe if you smoke nearly any cigars you will become addicted.


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## ghe-cl (Apr 9, 2005)

Ming on Mongo said:


> No doubt your Google works as well as mine does, so not sure what your point is, or even where we 'disagree'?


I'm not disagreeing. Just want to find the source for your info. You mention "studies" and I'd love to read the studies themselves if you can point me to them.


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## Ming on Mongo (May 15, 2015)

Are you really unable to Google, say, "absorption of nicotine during cigar smoking"?


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## Bird-Dog (Oct 16, 2009)

Hate to be negative here, OP, but you don't have to try 'em all. If you feel you must, then you're already addicted. But, it's not the nicotine that's got it's hooks in you, it's the idea of it being a "hobby" that somehow requires smoking as many different cigars as you can.

And, Ming & ghe, what you two may not be considering (re: nicotine absorption) is the time factor. The average cigar probably takes 1-hour to smoke, whereas a cigarette takes maybe 5-minutes. If you smoked cigarettes constantly for the same hour it takes to smoke a cigar you'd go through about a dozen cigarettes. Do the math... and do not forget to consider dissipation.


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## HighNoon (Jun 17, 2015)

curmudgeonista said:


> Hate to be negative here, OP, but you don't have to try 'em all. If you feel you must, then you're already addicted.


hardly what I would consider addiction... I am talking about a chemical dependency. I thought I had made that point clear by now.


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## Ming on Mongo (May 15, 2015)

IMHO it's also not a good sign whenever folks get the urge to start "splitting hairs" re: things like the definition of "addiction", "chemical dependency", "size", cigs vs cigars, what's "worse" and how much, etc….. especially when there's no shortage of data that there are still very real '"risks" to all tobacco use, no matter what.

So perhaps the actual issue here is less a matter of arguing the "risks", than how we each choose to respond to them… ranging all the way from either "obsessing", to facing them squarely and responsibly, to constant "lawyering" and living in "De Nile".


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## StogieNinja (Jul 29, 2009)

Ming on Mongo said:


> IMHO it's also not a good sign whenever folks get the urge to start "splitting hairs" re: things like the definition of "addiction", "chemical dependency", "size", cigs vs cigars, what's "worse" and how much, etc&#8230;.. especially when there's no shortage of data that there are still very real '"risks" to all tobacco use, no matter what.


There are _significant _differences in the risks between regular cigarette smoking (multiple times per day, inhaling), and regular cigar smoking (generally a few times per week, no inhalation). Those differences are very important, I wouldn't call them splitting hairs.


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## HighNoon (Jun 17, 2015)

The main purpose of my thread was to determine if vets of smoking cigars experienced that nicotine addiction that cigarette smokers do. Largely from what I have gathered the answer is no. 

The addiction that concerns me is the type that cigarette smokers experience. Cravings, "rewiring" of neurons that happens in chemical dependency addictions like cocaine, heroin and also with cigarette smokers from (what I have read about addiction over the years). To say that if I am thinking about buying cigars and am excited at the prospect of trying many, then I already am addicted is purely conjecture and, just not, well... addiction as I would frame it.

Having an addictive personality is a separate issue and one I am not overly concerned with personally. I have known myself for a long time  Having focused interest, is not addiction.


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## Ming on Mongo (May 15, 2015)

OK, so what, nobody's contesting that? Or are you suggesting that Cigars have _no_ risks whatever? Or that if that do, the risks are irrelevant because there's always something "much worse"?

BTW, to be clear, I'm neither defending nor attacking anyone's 'drug of choice'. I'm simply pointing out that proper 'risk management' might be a more responsible option than the extremes of either self-righteous 'finger-wagging', or else 'torturing the data' into enabling one's "De Nile" (aka, suspected 'addiction').


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## HighNoon (Jun 17, 2015)

Some key points that I learned in researching and gather the most important bit of data on a forum (personal experience) are summed up with these bullets:

1. Cigars have a slower nicotine delivery (due to no inhalation, even more lessened if you don't chew or suck the tip on your stogie).
2. Faster delivery is directly correlated with higher risk of chemical addiction.
3. cigars are somewhat self limiting (at least for me and some others). This helps keep the number of cigars smoked down (in particular if you like med to full flavors cigars) in my case, my taste buds get worn out so what is the point of having another stick?). Although more experience folks might have a higher tolerance.
4. 1 a day or less cigar smoking is a risk similar to 1-2 alcoholic drinks a day (based on my reading and my personal assessment of risk based on my personal health factors and family history).

My assessment is that cigar smoking addiction via nicotine is far less a concern than smoking cigarettes based on the frequency and manner in which I intend to play in this sport.

added in from your post:



Ming on Mongo said:


> OK, so what, nobody's contesting that?


ah but they are:


curmudgeonista said:


> Hate to be negative here, OP, but you don't have to try 'em all. If you feel you must, then you're already addicted.





Ming on Mongo said:


> Or are you suggesting that Cigars have _no_ risks whatever? Or that if that do, the risks are irrelevant because there's always something "much worse"?
> 
> BTW, to be clear, I'm neither defending nor attacking anyone's 'drug of choice'. I'm simply pointing out that proper 'risk management' might be a more responsible option than the extremes of either self-righteous 'finger-wagging', or else 'torturing the data' into enabling one's "De Nile" (aka, suspected 'addiction').


No I am saying the above - my personal assessment of the risks are acceptable.

Everything has a risk to it. Drinking too much milk for example. However I would not liken that risk to cigars which have more of a risk of course.

My point is that I am not concerned with the mental aspect as much as I was the nicotine addictive aspect.


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## Ming on Mongo (May 15, 2015)

_"If the glove doesn't fit, you must acquit!" _
- OJ Simpson attorney Johnny Cochran, June 21, 1995


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## StogieNinja (Jul 29, 2009)

Ming on Mongo said:


> OK, so what, nobody's contesting that? Or are you suggesting that Cigars have _no_ risks whatever? Or that if that do, the risks are irrelevant because there's always something "much worse"?


No, I'm not suggesting there are no risks to cigar smoking, what I'm saying is that the risks are much different than they are with cigarette smoking.

You said:



Ming on Mongo said:


> So perhaps the actual issue here is less a matter of arguing the "risks", than how we each choose to respond to them&#8230;


...but how do you respond to risks unless you understand what the risks are? You have to have some sort of information to base your response on. That's why I feel it's important to note the differences in risk, because the response is going to be different.

The OP wanted to know about nicotine addiction. And there's a significant difference between cigars and cigarettes when it comes to the risk of addiction.

Based on that difference, with cigarettes, my response is going to be to never, ever smoke them. With cigars, my response is going to be to go ahead and enjoy them in moderation.

Others will respond differently, and that's ok.



Ming on Mongo said:


> ...I'm simply pointing out that proper 'risk management' might be a more responsible option than the extremes ...


Agreed, operating in extremes isn't be best course. But proper risk management can only be put in place when the risks--and the different risks for different products--are understood. That's what the OP was asking, and that's what we were responding to.


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## garublador (Jun 5, 2014)

Ming on Mongo said:


> IMHO it's also not a good sign whenever folks get the urge to start "splitting hairs" re: things like the definition of "addiction", "chemical dependency", "size", cigs vs cigars, what's "worse" and how much, etc&#8230;.. especially when there's no shortage of data that there are still very real '"risks" to all tobacco use, no matter what.


I've done a lot of searching and haven't found any studies that measured the risk of smoking at a frequency less than one cigar per day. Can you either give a link or a Google search and page title of the data that shows the "very real" risks of smoking one cigar per week?

I'm not saying the risk is absolutely zero, but there's a big difference between "very real" and "probably negligible."


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## Ming on Mongo (May 15, 2015)

Aninjaforallseasons said:


> Based on that difference, with cigarettes, my response is going to be to never, ever smoke them. With cigars, my response is going to be to go ahead and enjoy them in moderation.


And I agree. Perhaps where we all differ is what constitutes "moderation", and 'why'. BTW, what's with all the lawyerly 'tap-dancing' here with some folks, which seems to come across more like an elaborate sort of "self-deception". Because any way you slice it, this is still a risky endeavor&#8230;even 'negligibly' (duh)!

For example, have long enjoyed motorcycles, along with their known 'risks'. Now some folks can yammer on all day about the 'statistics', cars vs bikes, age groups, etc&#8230;.. but that doesn't change anything for me, and I'm already well aware of the risks. What matters more to me isn't the 'degree' of risk, but how I choose to 'manage' and respond to it. All the rest is just re-arranging the chairs on the Titanic!


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## bobaglass (Jun 26, 2015)

the op was asking about nicotine addiction. thats what the conversation should be about. if you believe you can be addicted to nicotine you shouldnt smoke cigars. cigars clearly have more nic that cigarettes. ive never gotten nic spins or sicknesss from a cigarette. but plenty of cigars have done it to me. no need for a google link to prove that. its common knowledge.

now if the op still believes nic addiction is possible, dont smoke cigars or anything else. however if you want to better educate yourself on "nicotine addiction" look up the research of professor peter kileen. or look up the studies of addiction performed by dr carl hart.

we as a society have developed a very victimized mentality when it comes to mood altering and psychoactive substances. but these ideas are simply not true. no substance can take away your self control. its not someone elses fault when you pick up a cigarette or any other "addictive" substance. its your hand that picked it up, your brain that made the choice, and your personality that is "addicted."


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## HighNoon (Jun 17, 2015)

I am not certain how my clarifying my main concern as chemical dependency has anything to do with "lawyerly" speak. I assessed both sides of the addiction coin and came up with my personal verdict (which by the way should be a personal verdict for everyone).

What may be far less accurate is broad characterization about the "mental" or "personality trait" side of addiction. I would not consider myself mentally addicted unless my habits started affecting my real life and those around me, or my job. That is a lot different than what a lot are suggesting as "mental" addiction in this thread.



Aninjaforallseasons said:


> With cigarettes, my response is going to be to never, ever smoke them. With cigar, my response is going to be to go ahead and enjoy them in moderation. Others will respond differently, and that's ok.


This has always been my take on cigarettes as well.

This is a interesting read as well for a high level view on addiction and the brain:
http://www.health.harvard.edu/mind-and-mood/the_addicted_brain

bobaglass - I lean on the side of mind over matter when it comes to quitting something you are addicted to. Just like personalities, habits are hard to change after we reach a certain age (the neurological component is a predispositional one, not definitive). It all depends on your strength of mind and resolve.


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## Ming on Mongo (May 15, 2015)

Sorry, guess I'm not getting what difference it makes whether something is a "chemical dependency" or "mentally addicting", which is also the larger point of the OP. Because either way, you've still lost 'control', and the rest is, yes, so much 'lawyer-speak'…. which BTW, fools only ourselves. In fact doesn't all addiction, mental, chemical or otherwise, start with some sorta 'excuses' and Denial?


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## bobaglass (Jun 26, 2015)

originally posted by HighNoon
_"I am new to the sport and of course the hardest part for me is to have moderation since I want to try all the cigars out there. I really have no interest in nicotine (lived this long without it, don't need an addiction.) Is it reasonable for me to think I can have a cigar hobby without an addiction? How often generally should I enjoy a cigar to keep that goal in check?"_

originally posted by HighNoon
_"I lean on the side of mind over matter when it comes to quitting something ... It all depends on your strength of mind and resolve."_

seems like youve come around to a conclusion to your original question then.

now go and enjoy a stogie:smoke:


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## HighNoon (Jun 17, 2015)

Ming on Mongo said:


> Sorry, guess I'm not getting what difference it makes whether something is a "chemical dependency" or "mentally addicting", which is also the larger point of the OP. Because either way, you've still lost 'control', and the rest is, yes, so much 'lawyer-speak'&#8230;. which BTW, fools only ourselves. In fact doesn't all addiction, mental, chemical or otherwise, start with some sorta 'excuses' and Denial?


The difference to me would be that instead on one factor working against you, you have two. And possibly the chemical portion may have a synergy with the behavioral component. Making addiction all that much more difficult to overcome.

Outside of that we will just have to agree to disagree on this one 



bobaglass said:


> seems like youve come around to a conclusion to your original question then.
> 
> now go and enjoy a stogie:smoke:


 indeed I have good sir. As of 7/1/2015 the risk assessment is that I am allowed  lol


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## StogieNinja (Jul 29, 2009)

bobaglass said:


> the op was asking about nicotine addiction. thats what the conversation should be about. if you believe you can be addicted to nicotine you shouldnt smoke cigars. cigars clearly have more nic that cigarettes. ive never gotten nic spins or sicknesss from a cigarette. but plenty of cigars have done it to me. no need for a google link to prove that. its common knowledge.


Cigars definitely have more nicotine, but more nicotine doesn't automatically mean cigars are more addictive.


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## Bird-Dog (Oct 16, 2009)

HighNoon said:


> I was smoking 2 a day for a week and then said,... this is crazy! lol Really I just want to find some solid cigars and get them stored in my humidor for 1-2 on the weekends. What I didn't realize when I started that search was that there are TONS of cigars out there.


Did you have a problem stopping or cutting back after a week of smoking two-a-day? If not, you answered your own question before you ever asked it.

If you want to smoke 1 or 2 a weekend, then do so. If you think the _dreaded_ nicotine is going to MAKE you smoke more than you want to then don't. Simple as that.


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## bobaglass (Jun 26, 2015)

Aninjaforallseasons said:


> Cigars definitely have more nicotine, but more nicotine doesn't automatically mean cigars are more addictive.


i know thats the point i was making with the rest of that post that you didnt quote. thats exactly why i mentioned professor peter kileen.


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## HighNoon (Jun 17, 2015)

These are some interesting statements!


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## bobaglass (Jun 26, 2015)

HighNoon said:


> These are some interesting statements!


thats one of his videos. its vapor device centric and it contains good info. but what i was talking about was his research findings given in 2009 N.I.D.A titled Reefer Madness: There ain't no such Thing as Addiction to Nicotine

the title kinda says it all. but his general idea is the reason why cigarettes are addictive is the "cocktail" of additives reacting (possibly) with the nicotine.

it seems like when you google him the vapor community has really taken hold of his ideas. but his reasearch applies just as well to cigars or chew or nrt's


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## HighNoon (Jun 17, 2015)

Right - definitely vapor centric. But nonetheless interesting. Could not resist the ease of a video when I did the quick google search. I will have to dig deeper for the studies


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## Mike72 (May 4, 2015)

HighNoon said:


> I am new to the sport and of course the hardest part for me is to have moderation since I want to try all the cigars out there. I really have no interest in nicotine (lived this long without it, don't need an addiction.) Is it reasonable for me to think I can have a cigar hobby without an addiction? How often generally should I enjoy a cigar to keep that goal in check?
> 
> Nicotine hasn't really seemed to affect me unless I had big cigars or multiples in the same day. I am trying to find medium to full flavors stogies with mild to med strength. Tough part is that it seems the strength is up there in many of the med to full flavor cigars.
> 
> ...


So HighNoon, I supose the real question is - Do you have an addictive personality?


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## Ming on Mongo (May 15, 2015)

And there are also 'behavioral' cues that are unique to cigarettes. My brother tried every 'cure' in creation, including hypnosis, the patch, injections, e-cigs, etc&#8230;.before he finally passed from COPD. And he often told me that the toughest part wasn't so much quitting the nicotine, as replacing the deeply ingrained satisfaction from just the physical 'habit', of feeling stressed, and then holding the cigarette, lighting it up, and that initial 'ah-h-h' of inhaling. That 'ritual' is simply much easier and cheaper to do with cigs, and repeatedly, than it is with any cigar.

That said, I would still have to disagree re: the possible 'non-addictiveness' of nicotine, judging from my own experience and that of cigarette-smoking friends who've switched to 'vapes'&#8230; and _still_ have that 'craving' for a bit of nic mixed with their 'flavors'. And frankly, I have to admit that I've even used the nicotine 'rush' sometimes just to get my azz in gear (which I would also consider a sort of 'dependency')!

BTW, aren't there several well-known cigar buffs here on this forum, who've frequently admitted they go for the 'buzz'?


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## HighNoon (Jun 17, 2015)

Mike72 said:


> So HighNoon, I supose the real question is - Do you have an addictive personality?


Troll!!! hahaha lol 



Ming on Mongo said:


> And there are also 'behavioral' cues that are unique to cigarettes. My brother tried every 'cure' in creation, including hypnosis, the patch, injections, e-cigs, etc&#8230;.before he finally passed from COPD. And he often told me that the toughest part wasn't so much quitting the nicotine, as replacing the deeply ingrained satisfaction from just the physical 'habit', of feeling stressed, and then holding the cigarette, lighting it up, and that initial 'ah-h-h' of inhaling. That 'ritual' is simply much easier and cheaper to do with cigs, and repeatedly, than it is with any cigar.
> 
> That said, I would still have to disagree re: the possible 'addictiveness' of nicotine, judging from my own experience and that of cigarette-smoking friends who've switched to 'vapes'&#8230; and still have that 'craving' for a bit of nic mixed with their 'flavors'. And frankly, I have to admit that I've used the nicotine 'rush' sometimes just to get my azz in gear (which I would also consider a sort of 'dependency')!


Sorry to hear about your brother - my sincerest condolences.

You bring up a point that I don't think was brought to the forefront. One "self rule" I have shared with friends that has served me well: Never form a habit to mitigate your stressors.

i.e. Never drink when your upset or stressed to relieve that state. Drink because you want to enjoy a drink.

Same would go for a cigar - don't smoke to relax or reduce stress. Smoke because you are in a good state of mind and would like to indulge on the past time. If that happens to reduce stress too that is ok. But there is a difference

my .02 - just remember that it is worth only what you paid for it.


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