# ExquisiCat Crystals Cat Litter. MUST READ!!!



## Kenny Powers

I recently ordered 70% RH beads in a plastic style container from a cigar accessory dealer that is very reputable in these forums. I will not name them because I do not want to hurt their business. I put the beads in my small 30 count humidor and did not open it for 2 days because I wanted to make sure it had time to stabilize. The first time I opened the box my 2 calibrated digital hygrometers read 63%. I still continued to use the 70% RH beads over the course of a week and the RH level never passed 64%. Thinking I might have got a bad batch, I ordered the same product from the same company and got the same results. I gave up on them because I prefer my cigars in a environment over 65%. After reading so much about the kitty litter crystals I decided to give them a try and purchased the ExquisiCat brand. I took the 70%RH beads out of their container and loaded the same container with the kitty litter. Before I put these in my humidor I emailed the company and explained to them what some people were using their product for and my main question was "why do these create a environment between 65%-70% RH ?" Two days later I received a phone call from a representative at the company who happened to be a cigar aficionado. He stated he has been using the ExquisiCat kitty litter for 2 years in all 3 of his humidors and has never had a problem with them maintaining humidity. To make a long story short, he went on to tell me that after extensive research and development the scientist who developed their kitty litter found that the odor control mechanism worked best if the crystals constantly tried stabilizing themselves at 68%RH. He said, in a open environment the RH would most likely not be 68% and it's not the humid environment that controls the odor but instead it is the crystals working on releasing and absorbing to try and maintain 68% RH and in an enclosed environment they will stabilize and maintain a humidity level of 68% -1/+1%. Needless to say I sprayed them with some distilled water and threw them in my humidor. I couldn't take the anticipation any more so I opened the lid at about the two hour mark and what do you know, both hygrometers read 68%. They have only been in for two days and the hygrometers are constantly reading 68%. One more thing. He said the white crystals are designed to absorb and release moisture and the blue crystals were designed to only release moisture. 

PS. These crystals are not scented and are made from 100% Silica.

PRETTY COOL UH?


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## SixPackSunday

yup, I use kitty litter litter in my traveldor, used to use it in my cab before I snagged an oasis. had more problems with the oasis actually...


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## Hot Stuff x

I gotta try this stuff...maybe I can find it in the base commissary.


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## GlockG23

makes you think


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## Strick

opcorn: and what if...Oh never mind...KP yes they do work just fine...


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## ChiTwnSmoke

Anyone have a sample they want to send/sell me?


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## Kenny Powers

ChiTwnSmoke said:


> Anyone have a sample they want to send/sell me?


How big is your Humi? What is it's capacity? I will send you some for free. I got 8 pounds of it for 12 bucks and it will last me forever.


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## longburn

That is incredible,I currently use CI's cigar juice and the 2oz jars of CI crystals and so far they have been doing a great job at keeping my 300ct display humi at 68% but this would be cheaper.

I just wonder.....we have three cats and that makes things a little worrisome:tease:


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## ChiTwnSmoke

Kenny Powers said:


> How big is your Humi? What is it's capacity? I will send you some for free. I got 8 pounds of it for 12 bucks and it will last me forever.


125 count
PM me and we'll square this away.


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## Kenny Powers

ChiTwnSmoke said:


> 125 count
> PM me and we'll square this away.


This is going to sound stupid but I am new here and I do not know how to send a PM. Could you tell me where I can find the link to send you a PM? Thank you.


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## GlockG23

"He said the white crystals are designed to absorb and release moisture and the blue crystals were designed to only release moisture."

ok on the quote above. If I buy a container open it and throw a digital hydrometer in the container and close it. After waiting a few hours it should be 68% correct?


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## Kenny Powers

GlockG23 said:


> "He said the white crystals are designed to absorb and release moisture and the blue crystals were designed to only release moisture."
> 
> ok on the quote above. If I buy a container open it and throw a digital hydrometer in the container and close it. After waiting a few hours it should be 68% correct?


No, from what I understood you have to wet them with distilled water. They start out bone dry and I believe you have to wet them down once every 2 months. The white crystals can not maintain 68% by themselves and need the help from the blue crystals for that added boost of humidity. The white crystals can absorb humidity from the air but the blue crystals can only absorb through direct contact with a liquid.


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## LookAtBigErn82

Can I ask what store you purchased these at?


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## Kenny Powers

I purchased them at Pet Smart.


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## ChiTwnSmoke

Kenny Powers said:


> This is going to sound stupid but I am new here and I do not know how to send a PM. Could you tell me where I can find the link to send you a PM? Thank you.


Doesnt look like I can send you a PM...to pm me, click on my name and you should be able to send me a message.


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## Kenny Powers

ChiTwnSmoke said:


> Doesnt look like I can send you a PM...to pm me, click on my name and you should be able to send me a message.


It wont show me the option to send you a message. The only options it gives me is (View Public Profile) and (Find all posts by ChiTwnSmoke). Maybe theirs a glitch on the forum.


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## royhubbs

Kenny Powers said:


> It wont show me the option to send you a message. The only options it gives me is (View Public Profile) and (Find all posts by ChiTwnSmoke). Maybe theirs a glitch on the forum.


On this forum you must be a member for 30 days/30 posts before you can PM, to prevent spamming.


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## Kenny Powers

royhubbs said:


> On this forum you must be a member for 30 days/30 posts before you can PM, to prevent spamming.


Thank you for the information Roy.


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## pmp

I used exquisicat many years ago for a while. It does not work as well as the beads and neither of those are as convenient as crystal gel.

Its pretty subjective but those are my findings. Crystal gel is the most convenient and stable in desktop applications. Cabinets are better with beads. Your mileage may vary.


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## Kenny Powers

pmp said:


> I used exquisicat many years ago for a while. It does not work as well as the beads and neither of those are as convenient as crystal gel.
> 
> Its pretty subjective but those are my findings. Crystal gel is the most convenient and stable in desktop applications. Cabinets are better with beads. Your mileage may vary.


Yea, I guess your right. Everything is pretty damn subjective because the Crystal Gel only worked for about a week in my desktop but the kitty litter is still holding strong. Maybe Exquisicat changed their formula because the person I spoke too said he only started using it 2 years ago. Either way, use what works for you.


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## Kenny Powers

MrMusicMan1, I saw your PM however I can not respond to it because I haven't been a member for 30 days. If you see this let me know and I will send it next week.


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## OracleSmoke

There's a few Exquisicat products... which one are you using? The old one that everyone used to use was the Pearl Fresh litter pearls, which had all clear beads.

Is the product you're using translucent beads and blue crystals or is it all beads?


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## MrMusicMan1

Kenny Powers said:


> MrMusicMan1, I saw your PM however I can not respond to it because I haven't been a member for 30 days. If you see this let me know and I will send it next week.


Thanks brother I appreciate it!!! You the man!


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## Kenny Powers

OracleSmoke said:


> There's a few Exquisicat products... which one are you using? The old one that everyone used to use was the Pearl Fresh litter pearls, which had all clear beads.
> 
> Is the product you're using translucent beads and blue crystals or is it all beads?


The product is white and blue crystals. If you read my first post then you would know that the white crystals absorb and release while the blue crystals only release.


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## Kenny Powers

MrMusicMan1 said:


> Thanks brother I appreciate it!!! You the man!


One more thing man. I don't see an option to delete your message that you wanted me to delete.


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## MrMusicMan1

Kenny Powers said:


> One more thing man. I don't see an option to delete your message that you wanted me to delete.


Okay I'll look into it. For some reason this morning I have been able to go to anybody's page, including mine. I think I can edit it and remove it.


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## Kenny Powers

MrMusicMan1 said:


> Okay I'll look into it. For some reason this morning I have been able to go to anybody's page, including mine. I think I can edit it and remove it.


I can't get onto my page either. Do me a favor and send your name and address to my email. ([email protected])


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## OracleSmoke

Kenny Powers said:


> The product is white and blue crystals. If you read my first post then you would know that the white crystals absorb and release while the blue crystals only release.


Your first post was read. As I mentioned in my post, there are several Exquisicat products. I have seen the blue & white product in nothing but beads, meaning no crystals. Whether the blue objects release or absorb wasn't part of the question.


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## Kenny Powers

OracleSmoke said:


> Your first post was read. As I mentioned in my post, there are several Exquisicat products. I have seen the blue & white product in nothing but beads, meaning no crystals. Whether the blue objects release or absorb wasn't part of the question.


Sorry, I really wasn't trying to be rude but after re-reading my post it looked ignorant. My bad. The ones I have and the only ones I have ever seen are the crystals. I have never seen the beads.


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## slyder

maybe somebody can explain this to me....It says the blue kind is designed to release moisture only? Why in the kitty litter world would you want something to release moisture? Isnt the whole idea to soak up the pee? Im not knockin all you kitty litter advocates out there....Im just curious why they want that beads to release urine that was just soaked up.


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## McVegas

slyder said:


> maybe somebody can explain this to me....It says the blue kind is designed to release moisture only? Why in the kitty litter world would you want something to release moisture? Isnt the whole idea to soak up the pee? Im not knockin all you kitty litter advocates out there....Im just curious why they want that beads to release urine that was just soaked up.


Odor control. The OP said that the factory rep stated this:


> after extensive research and development the scientist who developed their kitty litter found that the odor control mechanism worked best if the crystals constantly tried stabilizing themselves at 68%RH. He said, in a open environment the RH would most likely not be 68% and it's not the humid environment that controls the odor but instead it is the crystals working on releasing and absorbing to try and maintain 68% RH and in an enclosed environment they will stabilize and maintain a humidity level of 68% -1/+1%. N


In an open environment (litterbox for example) the beads are not able to stabilize at 68% and are always trying to achieve it, which is apparently the sweet spot for odor control with their product.


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## slyder

So as long as your house is above 68% it will absorb the urine smell....if it falls below 68% it will release it? see where im goin with this? Wouldnt a product for odor controll be better if it just absorbed? I mean im no kitty litter scientist, i went to college to work on refrigeration equipment but somethin here just dont sit right with the whole concept.

NEVERMIND!! it just clicked! Sorry ...dont pay any attention to me. I rode the shortbus most of my life. I see now...it absorbs til it stabilizes at 68%...gotya ...im done :deadhorse:


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## Kenny Powers

The crystals have been in the humidor for 2 weeks now and their still holding strong at 68%.


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## OracleSmoke

Kenny Powers said:


> Sorry, I really wasn't trying to be rude but after re-reading my post it looked ignorant. My bad. The ones I have and the only ones I have ever seen are the crystals. I have never seen the beads.


NP. I've been using the clear bead exquisicat for a while now with no probs. Some friends were thinking of going this route but it's tough to find just the clear bead version anymore, so thanks much for the info. I think they're going out to Petsmart later today and get a jug. :cell:


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## Jonesee

Everyone that has used the beads have reported great results.

We have yet to see a poster that has actually used the beads come on here and say they don't work. 

The only people that say they won't work, haven't used them.


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## sboyajian

Just a couple questions.. I don't disbelieve your experiences with the beads and the kitty litter, just wanted to clarify a few things.

You mentioned leaving the beads in their for a bit because you wanted to give it time to stabalize. Does this mean it was a brand new humidor? A new humidifcation device should require no additional time to stabalize in a already seasoned box, than the original device. 

If it was in fact new, I would fully expect 70% beads would not quite reach 70% right away.. and they could take 1 or 2 weeks to fully season the box (and likely need to be resprayed many times as the wood absorbs the moisture leaving nothing left for the beads to re-absorb.

If this was a new box and that is how it happened, it's possible the Kitty Litter was put in at the right time as the box was now seasoned.. the work was done.

Also, did you use the same amount of litter as beads (ie: if you had 6oz of beads, did you use 6 oz of litter?)

Just curious.. I have 65% beads in 2 of my 3 small humidors and a lb of them in my wineador.. I could set my hygrometers to them.. they maintain 65% at all times and get back up to that after opening within minutes.


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## pmp

I find this thread pretty funny. Beads are used in museums to regulate the humidity around priceless artifacts. Kitty litter is what cats pee on. The ONLY reason that kitty litter works is because it approximates the same function as the beads albeing less efficiently.

You can say that kitty litter is better but I assure you that it isn't. I can't explain why it worked better in your application but I can assure you this in no way means that its the superior humidification media. I would call it a fluke.


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## OracleSmoke

Bead threads always make for interesting times when they come around...

I don't think I've noticed anyone strongly discouraging the use of commercial products sold for this purpose... I think it's more along the lines of if they feel they've found something that does the job for them for less cost they wanna share it.

I find it interesting every time someone finds a different product that performs the function to their satisfaction. I recall a while ago when only litter pearls where the accepted alternative.... now the crystal product is being tested positively as well.

As long as every time you look in the humidor the RH is where you want it, you win!


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## Jonesee

pmp said:


> I find this thread pretty funny. Beads are used in museums to regulate the humidity around priceless artifacts. Kitty litter is what cats pee on. The ONLY reason that kitty litter works is because it approximates the same function as the beads albeing less efficiently.
> 
> You can say that kitty litter is better but I assure you that it isn't. I can't explain why it worked better in your application but I can assure you this in no way means that its the superior humidification media. I would call it a fluke.


A "fluke" would indicate an anomaly. A deviation or departure from the normal or common order. Yet there have been no reports of a failure of the KL products. The data would indicate that a failure would be the fluke, the anomaly. Actually exactly contrary to your statement. A failure in context of reports so far would be a statistical outlier, an observation that is numerically distant from the rest of the data.

In spite of the perception: Ewww it's kitty litter... The data from reports in this forum indicate it is effective as a humidifying product.

Just an observation. Some of us are pretty data driven...


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## OracleSmoke

Jonesee: Just an observation. Some of us are pretty data driven...


my life as it exists for 8 hours a day!


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## Andy

thanks for the Info never thought of that


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## cf2112

pmp said:


> I find this thread pretty funny. Beads are used in museums to regulate the humidity around priceless artifacts. Kitty litter is what cats pee on. The ONLY reason that kitty litter works is because it approximates the same function as the beads albeing less efficiently.
> 
> You can say that kitty litter is better but I assure you that it isn't. I can't explain why it worked better in your application but I can assure you this in no way means that its the superior humidification media. I would call it a fluke.


I have used beads and KL for years and they both work the same in my coolers. In the Spring/Summer months I use KL to remove humidity and trust me it is way more efficient in removing humidity than beads.

Have you even tried KL or are you just afraid your cat might pee in your humidor:rotfl: I don't have any cats (with 3 girls I'm sure it's just a matter of time:help so I've not had this problem.

As always use what works for you and you feel comfortable with, I do so should you.


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## Kenny Powers

sboyajian said:


> Just a couple questions.. I don't disbelieve your experiences with the beads and the kitty litter, just wanted to clarify a few things.
> 
> You mentioned leaving the beads in their for a bit because you wanted to give it time to stabalize. Does this mean it was a brand new humidor? A new humidifcation device should require no additional time to stabalize in a already seasoned box, than the original device.
> 
> If it was in fact new, I would fully expect 70% beads would not quite reach 70% right away.. and they could take 1 or 2 weeks to fully season the box (and likely need to be resprayed many times as the wood absorbs the moisture leaving nothing left for the beads to re-absorb.
> 
> If this was a new box and that is how it happened, it's possible the Kitty Litter was put in at the right time as the box was now seasoned.. the work was done.
> 
> Also, did you use the same amount of litter as beads (ie: if you had 6oz of beads, did you use 6 oz of litter?)
> 
> Just curious.. I have 65% beads in 2 of my 3 small humidors and a lb of them in my wineador.. I could set my hygrometers to them.. they maintain 65% at all times and get back up to that after opening within minutes.


No, my humidor was not new. It was months old and already seasoned. I just wanted to give the beads time to do their thing and they never did. That's when I tried the kitty litter which ended up working.

In my original post I said... "I removed the beads from the container they came in and put the kitty litter in the same container." There for the same amount of kitty litter was used and if their is any difference it is less kitty litter


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## Jonesee

OracleSmoke said:


> Jonesee: Just an observation. Some of us are pretty data driven...
> 
> my life as it exists for 8 hours a day!


LOL. Mine used to be. I still default to being data driven in my desisions.


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## sboyajian

Kenny Powers said:


> No, my humidor was not new. It was months old and already seasoned. I just wanted to give the beads time to do their thing and they never did. That's when I tried the kitty litter which ended up working.
> 
> In my original post I said... "I removed the beads from the container they came in and put the kitty litter in the same container." There for the same amount of kitty litter was used and if their is any difference it is less kitty litter


 Again.. never used Litter, so I won't discourage you from doing so.. just trying to determine what could have been the problem with the beads?

Was the proper amount of water added to them? If they are over saturated, they will not work properly and often a lower rH is given than should be.

I suppose it's also possible while you ordered 70%, and it said 70%, you may have received 65%.

That being said, if you don't want em and still have em, lemme know.. I have a 3rd box that could really use em.. haha


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## Kenny Powers

sboyajian said:


> Again.. never used Litter, so I won't discourage you from doing so.. just trying to determine what could have been the problem with the beads?
> 
> Was the proper amount of water added to them? If they are over saturated, they will not work properly and often a lower rH is given than should be.
> 
> I suppose it's also possible while you ordered 70%, and it said 70%, you may have received 65%.
> 
> That being said, if you don't want em and still have em, lemme know.. I have a 3rd box that could really use em.. haha


Like I said in my first post, I ordered the 70% beads twice in case they may have sent me the wrong ones. I hydrated them the proper way.....I'm not an idiot! Lastly, even if they were 65% beads in a container labeled 70% they never even reached 65%. In the end, the kitty litter works better for me and I am glad it does because it is so much cheaper than the silica beads being marketed for humidors.

I am a strong believer that the silica beads sold for humidors were not made specifically for humidors. I'm sure they were used for something else and some company's just decided to buy them in bulk to market them as humidification for humidors. It's just like if I packaged kitty litter and marketed it the same way. Nobody would ever know.


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## sboyajian

Kenny Powers said:


> Like I said in my first post, I ordered the 70% beads twice in case they may have sent me the wrong ones. *I hydrated them the proper way.....I'm not an idiot!* Lastly, even if they were 65% beads in a container labeled 70% they never even reached 65%. In the end, the kitty litter works better for me and I am glad it does because it is so much cheaper than the silica beads being marketed for humidors.
> 
> I am a strong believer that the silica beads sold for humidors were not made specifically for humidors. I'm sure they were used for something else and some company's just decided to buy them in bulk to market them as humidification for humidors. It's just like if I packaged kitty litter and marketed it the same way. Nobody would ever know.


.. and any credence you had with me just went out the window..

Never called you an idiot.. you don't have to be an idiot to do something wrong or as not instructed. It's very easy to put to much or to little water in the beads, I've been very smart and very experienced people do it.

Unlike everyone else who posted either for or against beads or litter, I'm trying to determine possible causes as to why they didn't work for you, but have worked for pretty much everyone else I've ever know to use them.

Silica beads were NOT designed for humidors.. they were not designed for any specific box, cabinet, container, etc. They were designed to maintain a specific humidified environment. Whether it be control a specific rH, pull excess out or release more. It's the quantity of said beads that control it for certain sizes and that is all these companies are doing. Packaging it in specific sizes or containers for specific uses.

I apologize for missing some of the finer points of your first post. Perhaps breaking your novel into more than 1 paragraph would allow it to be read easier and allow people to retain more information by actually being able to follow the full posts without going cross-eyed.


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## GlockG23

After reading this on the 31st. I went out and bought some, 
on the 1st to try out on a small empty established humi 

I put a Caliber III in it along with wet crystals and a separate dish 
of dry crystals checking twice a day once in the morning and 
once in the evening

April first - 67 
(April 2) 58 - 62
(April 3) 64 - 65
(April 4) 73 - 74
(April 5) 72 - 71
(April 6) 70 - 68
(April 7) 67 - 64
(April 8th) 63

So far, they are not working for me
(my house is 68 deg +/-, at 31RH +/-)


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## slyder

Yeah that didnt stabilize very good. Wonder if you cut back to one check a day to see what whould happen? Or maybe skip to every other day? My Heartfelts are spot on.....every time I open the door no matter If im adding or subtracting cigars its always 64-67%! Money well spent in my eyes and I really put alot of thought and research into it before I spent any money.


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## GlockG23

slyder said:


> Yeah that didnt stabilize very good. Wonder if you cut back to one check a day to see what whould happen? Or maybe skip to every other day? My Heartfelts are spot on.....every time I open the door no matter If im adding or subtracting cigars its always 64-67%! Money well spent in my eyes and I really put alot of thought and research into it before I spent any money.


I might toss this humi out. After I am done testing the kitty litter. 
Because my humidor does not smell like a humidor anymore (25 count freebie)


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## slyder

GlockG23 said:


> I might toss this humi out. After I am done testing the kitty litter.
> Because my humidor does not smell like a humidor anymore (25 count freebie)


Really? thats interesting. Thats a major CON.


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## Slowpokebill

Do you condition the Kitty litter like the other beads...wetting/hydrating about 75% until they are clear?

I'm tempted to give the litter a test. If it works great and if it doesn't then the wife's cats will get some expensive litter to use for a week or two.


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## Kenny Powers

Sboyajian, I am not the only one that did not have the advertised results with humidification beads. Actually a lot of people out their do not reach the 70% like advertised but their still happy with say 66% or some other RH in the 60's. 

I could have kept using the beads and I am confident they would have maintained my RH at or right around 64% which is OK with a lot of people but not me. I like my sticks as close as I can get to 70% without actually hitting 70%.

This is the last thing I wanted when I decided to post my findings. I didn't want to start arguments with people who had a vested interest in humidor silica beads which is why I didn't list the names of the company's I purchased the beads from.

I didn't create this thread to deter people from buying silica beads from the favorite humidor accessory retailer. If you continue to buy silica beads made for humidors (if you can even call them that) then great. If you stop using them and start using Exquisicat then great. Thier really is no need to argue about the subject when all it comes down to is personel prefference. In the end, people will use what works for them and that's why I am a proud user of Exquisicat Cat Litter :rockon:


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## Strick

GlockG23 said:


> I might toss this humi out. After I am done testing the kitty litter.
> Because my humidor does not smell like a humidor anymore (25 count freebie)


Well if you used the KL with the blue beads I can see why. The blue beads are scented. Only the KL with all clear beads is not...:bolt:


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## Jonesee

Strick said:


> Well if you used the KL with the blue beads I can see why. The blue beads are scented. Only the KL with all clear beads is not...:bolt:


No, they aren't. At least not the ones I use.


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## sboyajian

Kenny Powers said:


> Sboyajian, I am not the only one that did not have the advertised results with humidification beads. Actually a lot of people out their do not reach the 70% like advertised but their still happy with say 66% or some other RH in the 60's.
> 
> I could have kept using the beads and I am confident they would have maintained my RH at or right around 64% which is OK with a lot of people but not me. I like my sticks as close as I can get to 70% without actually hitting 70%.
> 
> This is the last thing I wanted when I decided to post my findings. I didn't want to start arguments with people who had a vested interest in humidor silica beads which is why I didn't list the names of the company's I purchased the beads from.
> 
> I didn't create this thread to deter people from buying silica beads from the favorite humidor accessory retailer. If you continue to buy silica beads made for humidors (if you can even call them that) then great. If you stop using them and start using Exquisicat then great. Thier really is no need to argue about the subject when all it comes down to is personel prefference. In the end, people will use what works for them and that's why I am a proud user of Exquisicat Cat Litter :rockon:


While I believe what you are saying.. I think you need to be aware of the chip you had on your shoulder.

Both times I posted I made it very clear I had not used Kitty Litter and could not speak for how well or not well it works. I have no opinion on the product because I've never used it. I was attempting to figure out the problem with the actual Silica Beads you experienced a problem with.

I have beads being used in 3 of my 4 humidors (one being a 5cu ft wine fridge). Each of them at 65% beads and they all reach 65% and stay right on it.

That you were using 70% and couldn't even reach 65%, seemed to me their may have been an issue and rather than leave you with a bad taste regarding a product myself, and many others, use without issue, I was hoping we could discover a potential reason for it. For some reason you saw that as a personal attack on your character or my questioning your intelligence.


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## GlockG23

Strick said:


> Well if you used the KL with the blue beads I can see why. The blue beads are scented. Only the KL with all clear beads is not...:bolt:


Yes, I am testing with the blue crystals.
It is a blank sweet smell, with a really small hint of the humidors ceder


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## Jack Straw

Well aren't they supposed to be deodorizers? Maybe that's one adverse side effect.


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## Callaway29

I am using 70% beads, and everytime I charge them my humidor becomes stuck at 64%. :ballchain:

I happen to be fine with 64%, but it is interesting that no matter how much I wet them....my humi never gets close to 70%.

C_

PS: YES, my DIGITAL hygrometer is calibrated.


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## Slowpokebill

I picked up some Exquisicat Cat Crystals at Petsmart today. It has both white and blue crystal. All the crystals are unscented. I tested some wet and no smell. The crystals go clear when wet. Now i just need to find something to put them into and I'll toss them in my 25 count which stays pretty constant at 70% rh now with Xikar Crystals. 

this is a test and only a test because I'm curious.


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## pmp

Ive used beads, crystals, and kitty litter on countless setups. If you do it enough you might find

under 300 count
crystal gel > beads > kitty litter

over 300 count
beads > kitty litter

At least thats what I've found...but WTF do I know I only sell humidors. :rotfl:


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## Kenny Powers

pmp said:


> Ive used beads, crystals, and kitty litter on countless setups. If you do it enough you might find
> 
> under 300 count
> crystal gel > beads > kitty litter
> 
> over 300 count
> beads > kitty litter
> 
> At least thats what I've found...but WTF do I know I only sell humidors. :rotfl:


My findings have been:
Kitty Litter > Crystal Gel > Beads


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## Slowpokebill

I decided to use the little round humidifier that had that green florist foam to hold the kitty litter. I didn't weigh the kitty litter but the little round case holds about a 1/4 cup of beads.

The room temp stays 67 to 70 degrees and the rh runs 25-30% in the house.

It has been a month since I last salt tested the Accurite hygrometer I picked up from WalMart. It runs 3% low. This morning with the Xikar crystals the humidor was right at 69% rh. I have 21 cigars in the humidor (it will be twenty by this evening)

I have no horse in this race and really don't care what works best. If the kitty litter works, great... I have enough to get a coolador going. If it doesn't work that's okay too, I'll just put the crystals back in the humidor and let the wife use the kitty litter in the cat box.

So now it just a wait and see game.


----------



## Slowpokebill

Kitty litter has been in since Friday evening.

This mornings (Monday 04/12/09) reading 66% rh @ 69 degrees

I'll check every other day or when I grab out a stick.

I figure it needs to hold steady at least for 2 weeks before I would say that the kitty litter is okay in a small humidor.


----------



## GrtndpwrflOZ

DOES ANYONE KNOW OF A PRODUCT THAT i CAN USE TO GET MY CATS TO POOP IN MY HUMIDOR ALL THE WHILE KEEPING A CONSTANT 68% rH LEVEL?


----------



## OracleSmoke

GrtndpwrflOZ said:


> DOES ANYONE KNOW OF A PRODUCT THAT i CAN USE TO GET MY CATS TO POOP IN MY HUMIDOR ALL THE WHILE KEEPING A CONSTANT 68% rH LEVEL?


I think Heartfelt sells something that may do this for you but I can't recall what it is at the moment... :behindsofa:


----------



## docruger

GrtndpwrflOZ said:


> DOES ANYONE KNOW OF A PRODUCT THAT i CAN USE TO GET MY CATS TO POOP IN MY HUMIDOR ALL THE WHILE KEEPING A CONSTANT 68% rH LEVEL?


well I think all you have to do is keep the lid open and tell the cats to stay out. that should work


----------



## GlockG23

GlockG23 said:


> After reading this on the 31st. I went out and bought some,
> on the 1st to try out on a small empty established humi
> 
> I put a Caliber III in it along with wet crystals and a separate dish
> of dry crystals checking twice a day once in the morning and
> once in the evening
> 
> April first - 67
> (April 2) 58 - 62
> (April 3) 64 - 65
> (April 4) 73 - 74
> (April 5) 72 - 71
> (April 6) 70 - 68
> (April 7) 67 - 64
> (April 8th) 63 - *66*
> 
> So far, they are not working for me
> (my house is 68 deg +/-, at 31RH +/-)


 (April 9th) 66 - 67
(April 10th) 68 - 68
(April 11th) 68 - 68
as of today 68


----------



## Jack Straw

Not bad...

Same in-house ambient humidity?


----------



## GlockG23

Jack Straw said:


> Not bad...
> 
> Same in-house ambient humidity?


Damn it I forgot to check the house RH but the temp was the same
I think I had way to many cat litter crystals in there or not enough dry ones

The blue must be order control. The humi still does not smell like a humi should.

Oh yeah, let me be clear I will not my cigars in there, probably never will.


----------



## Slowpokebill

Here is the numbers from this past week. Readings taken in the morning except for Friday afternoon when I removed a Sabor Cubano Corona Gorda to smoke. 

I have noticed no difference in the humidor smell and the beads still have no smell beyond cedar and tobacco.

April 14 66%
April 16 66%
April 17 66%
April 19 67% 

It is now Spring the temperature in my office was 72 degrees this morning. Still to cool to run the air conditioning so it is time to move the humidor to the basement where the temperature runs about 64-65 degrees year round.

So far the ExquisiCat litter seems to be working okay. I feel comfortable enough I'm going to put some in my 75-100 count humidor.


----------



## ongreystreet

I know a guy that works at a shop and he uses ExquisiCat Crystals Cat Litter for large coolidors and swears by it.

I'm not sure about smaller applications.


----------



## Nickerson

So clear beads absorb and release humidity, and the blue beads only release?

So which do I use? Clear? Blue? Both?

http://www.petsmart.com/product/ind...E11-B0EA-001422107090&utm_medium=cse#prodTab1

Thats clear and blue

It says "eliminates odors" which you don't want. I don't know if that's what the blue beads are or not.

Where is the manufactures website?


----------



## PDV

Nickerson said:


> So clear beads absorb and release humidity, and the blue beads only release?
> 
> So which do I use? Clear? Blue? Both?
> 
> ExquisiCat® Crystals Cat Litter - Litter - Cat - PetSmart
> 
> Thats clear and blue
> 
> It says "eliminates odors" which you don't want. I don't know if that's what the blue beads are or not.
> 
> Where is the manufactures website?


I don't know what the colored crystals are and I wouldn't trust them in my humi. I would only use the kind that is 100% clear unscented silica gel beads. This is what I use in my cooler, and they work great: Litter Pearls | Litter | Litter Boxes & Supplies | Cat - ThatPetPlace.com

Only $4.25 for four pounds, plus shipping. Hard to beat, in my opinion.


----------



## Cheroot

Thanks for all the info in this thread. My "humidor beads" struggle in the winter, but work perfectly in the summer. I think I will supplement it with KL beads next winter, after some additional testing of my own.

My only question is, *with long term use*, will the "odor absorbing / eliminating" qualities affect the scent of the cedar or the cigars? I tried to read every post in this thread, but I feel like this has not been definitively answered.


----------



## Slowpokebill

If you sell kitty litter you have to say your product controls oder...it will likely be the biggest part of your sales pitch. It is one of the main reasons someone picks one brand over another. It is marketing plain and simple. I have a feeling the blue crystals are also a bit of marketing too but who knows. They have no odor or perfume which is what I would worry about most. I don't want anything in my humidor that will impart a scent to my sticks.

I think the all clear crystals in the litter mentioned above are the way I would go if starting over. 

I don't worry about silica beads sucking up the tabacco and cedar smell. anything that takes up moisture will absorb some of the other impurities and gases that are in the humidor. Many have commented elsewhere, that use the traditional beads, that they have darkened and turn tan to brown after years of use. But they seem to still work and haven't effected their cigars or humidor.

The latest report.
April 21 small humidor i66% at 65 degrees.
the 
April 21 large humidor 69% at 65 degrees (I added the crystals on Sunday and they may be a little wetter than they should be but 69% is okay with me)

One down side to the ExquisiCat is the amouont of tiny bits of crystal that fall out of my holder when attached to the lid. I think even sized beads or maybe screening the crystals might help. So now the holders are taking up space down in the humidors which kind of sucks.


----------



## PDV

You will get some flaking from silica gel beads, whether you use KL, Heartfelt, or whatever. I use white knee-high stockings to put the beads in. You can then put them in whatever other container or humidification device you wish. The stockings do a great job of containing any flakes and keeping them off of your cigars.


----------



## Nickerson

PDV said:


> I don't know what the colored crystals are and I wouldn't trust them in my humi. I would only use the kind that is 100% clear unscented silica gel beads. This is what I use in my cooler, and they work great: Litter Pearls | Litter | Litter Boxes & Supplies | Cat - ThatPetPlace.com
> 
> Only $4.25 for four pounds, plus shipping. Hard to beat, in my opinion.


Great, I might have to try that brand when I get my Humidor.

@Slowpokebill, are you using the Esquisicat brand? They say theirs "absorbs odors". Also you said some beads fall through your holder. I wonder if something like a coffee filter would help this?


----------



## Slowpokebill

Nickerson said:


> Great, I might have to try that brand when I get my Humidor.
> 
> @Slowpokebill, are you using the Esquisicat brand? They say theirs "absorbs odors". Also you said some beads fall through your holder. I wonder if something like a coffee filter would help this?


I'm using the ExquisiCat Crystals. I'm going to see if I can find a finer screen or maybe a piece of cheese cloth for the holder.

As to absorbing odor... I think you will find all litters saying they absorb or control odor or something along those lines. Just think of all those cat litter commercial you have seen. Odor control is about they talk about in the kitty litters ads. i don't think you need to worry about the silica crystal sucking all the flavor out of your sticks.

This morning both humidors are 67%.


----------



## Cheroot

Slowpokebill said:


> i don't think you need to worry about the silica crystal sucking all the flavor out of your sticks.


Thanks. I was going to wait till this winter to try this, but I'm going to pick some up this week. I'll report what my results are.


----------



## Nickerson

Slowpokebill said:


> I'm using the ExquisiCat Crystals. I'm going to see if I can find a finer screen or maybe a piece of cheese cloth for the holder.
> 
> As to absorbing odor... I think you will find all litters saying they absorb or control odor or something along those lines. Just think of all those cat litter commercial you have seen. Odor control is about they talk about in the kitty litters ads. i don't think you need to worry about the silica crystal sucking all the flavor out of your sticks.
> 
> This morning both humidors are 67%.


Wasn't as much as the flavor as it is the smell of the humidor. Which would effect aging, and could effect flavor.

Also, I wonder if you would have to add some type of anti-fungal? I think companies like Heartfelt add other things to the silica like anti-fungals and other things.


----------



## ongreystreet

All cat litter ads say they absorb odor.

But that doesn't explain why some of them have to be scented and why my wife's cat's litter box still always smells like crap.

Kitty litter doesn't do all that it says, basically dry crap smells better then wet crap.


----------



## Alpedhuez55

I have been using the kitty litter in my coolerdor for three years now. It has pretty much stayed at 67% RH on two separate digital hygrometers. In the summer, they tend to absorb whatever humidity is in the house (my house is 82% at the moment) and in the winter, I check it about once a month to add water.

As for storage, aquarium filter media bags are the way to go:

Nylon Filter Bag, Large # NYL-L by Blue Ribbon Products

You can find them at just about any pet store in a few different sizes.


----------



## skimask

see my thread


----------



## CraigJS

I read it and I still wonder why..


----------



## ARCHAIC

CraigJS said:


> I read it and I still wonder why..


 :frusty: :mrgreen:


----------



## dirletra

wow, never woulda thunk!


----------



## dajones

I am in love with my cat litter!

I went with these:
Ultra Pet Ultra Pearls Cat Litter, 5-Pound Pouch: Amazon.com: Grocery

But THIS is a great deal too:
Amazon.com: Just the Crystals -- made especially for Forever Litter Trays® (two 4.4lb bags/box): Home & Garden


----------



## socapots

skimask said:


> see my thread


I was wondering who bumped this old ass topic.. haha..
good thing though. Im always interested in different ways of doing things.


----------



## Carpe Diem

Great information.


----------



## knicks791

What happened to the beginning of this thread?


----------



## Slowpokebill

Since someone bumped this ... I'm still using the crystal in my humidors and small cooler. All are still rock solid in the mid 60s. My cigars still smoke great. I'm happy.


----------



## Mante

Slowpokebill said:


> Since someone bumped this ... I'm still using the crystal in my humidors and small cooler. All are still rock solid in the mid 60s. My cigars still smoke great. I'm happy.


Thats all very nice Bill & I'm glad everything is working for you. Myself? Anything to do with pussies is staying in my bed & out of my humis.:banplease::biglaugh:


----------



## asmartbull

Tashaz said:


> Thats all very nice Bill & I'm glad everything is working for you. Myself? Anything to do with pussies is staying in my bed & out of my humis.:banplease::biglaugh:


One of the few that thinks Silica = Sex......
Now, silicone....that's a different story.....:focus:


----------



## cubanrob19

I think Im gonna give this litter a try in my wineador!


----------



## TonyBrooklyn

Kenny Powers said:


> I recently ordered 70% RH beads in a plastic style container from a cigar accessory dealer that is very reputable in these forums. I will not name them because I do not want to hurt their business. I put the beads in my small 30 count humidor and did not open it for 2 days because I wanted to make sure it had time to stabilize. The first time I opened the box my 2 calibrated digital hygrometers read 63%. I still continued to use the 70% RH beads over the course of a week and the RH level never passed 64%. Thinking I might have got a bad batch, I ordered the same product from the same company and got the same results. I gave up on them because I prefer my cigars in a environment over 65%. After reading so much about the kitty litter crystals I decided to give them a try and purchased the ExquisiCat brand. I took the 70%RH beads out of their container and loaded the same container with the kitty litter. Before I put these in my humidor I emailed the company and explained to them what some people were using their product for and my main question was "why do these create a environment between 65%-70% RH ?" Two days later I received a phone call from a representative at the company who happened to be a cigar aficionado. He stated he has been using the ExquisiCat kitty litter for 2 years in all 3 of his humidors and has never had a problem with them maintaining humidity. To make a long story short, he went on to tell me that after extensive research and development the scientist who developed their kitty litter found that the odor control mechanism worked best if the crystals constantly tried stabilizing themselves at 68%RH. He said, in a open environment the RH would most likely not be 68% and it's not the humid environment that controls the odor but instead it is the crystals working on releasing and absorbing to try and maintain 68% RH and in an enclosed environment they will stabilize and maintain a humidity level of 68% -1/+1%. Needless to say I sprayed them with some distilled water and threw them in my humidor. I couldn't take the anticipation any more so I opened the lid at about the two hour mark and what do you know, both hygrometers read 68%. They have only been in for two days and the hygrometers are constantly reading 68%. One more thing. He said the white crystals are designed to absorb and release moisture and the blue crystals were designed to only release moisture.
> 
> PS. These crystals are not scented and are made from 100% Silica.
> 
> PRETTY COOL UH?


I gotta bump this thread because its a great thread. I have been using kitty litter for years. Works great real cheap in the summer i run it dry with the blue crystals removed holds a steady 63% R/H no matter what. In the winter i leave the blue ones in. Hydrate with a water salt solution they still maintain 63-65%. Can't beat em best thing since sliced bread!:smoke:


----------



## TonyBrooklyn

Tashaz said:


> Thats all very nice Bill & I'm glad everything is working for you. Myself? Anything to do with pussies is staying in my bed & out of my humis.:banplease::biglaugh:


I disagree as i prefer that barnyard aroma in my humidors!:smoke: :fencing: :lever:


----------



## Dread

What kitty litter is there thats currently available that works? This is the only stuff I can find and I dont want the odor eater in my humidor

ExquisiCat® Crystals Cat Litter - Sale - Cat - PetSmart


----------



## Dread

Can I just get that and remove the blue odor beads from it?


----------



## marked

TonyBrooklyn said:


> I gotta bump this thread because its a great thread. I have been using kitty litter for years. Works great real cheap in the summer i run it dry with the blue crystals removed holds a steady 63% R/H no matter what. In the winter i leave the blue ones in. *Hydrate with a water salt solution they still maintain 63-65%. *Can't beat em best thing since sliced bread!:smoke:


What is the ratio on your solution? Living in AZ, I have to work on keeping humidity up, so I definitely need these to release moisture. The crystals I have in the humi right now, I actually immersed in DW and soaked them, and the % is sitting at 60%


----------



## asmartbull

Dread said:


> Can I just get that and remove the blue odor beads from it?


No need to remove the blue beads.....


----------



## asmartbull

marked said:


> What is the ratio on your solution? Living in AZ, I have to work on keeping humidity up, so I definitely need these to release moisture. The crystals I have in the humi right now, I actually immersed in DW and soaked them, and the % is sitting at 60%


If you soaked HF beads, they are probably ruined.
You removed the salt.

Always Spray, or use passive absorbtion


----------



## Dread

asmartbull said:


> No need to remove the blue beads.....


Really? Everywhere ive read about them says dont get the ones with the blue crystals cause theyll make it smell funny.


----------



## asmartbull

No smell,,,,,but many do remove blue


----------



## TonyBrooklyn

marked said:


> What is the ratio on your solution? Living in AZ, I have to work on keeping humidity up, so I definitely need these to release moisture. The crystals I have in the humi right now, I actually immersed in DW and soaked them, and the % is sitting at 60%


Like Bull Man said if you soaked em the salt is gone they are ruined. All depends on the setup and situation. Start adding salt slowly take readings every day if you still to low add more salt. Every time your not where you wanna be you gotta start with fresh litter and water solution. Otherwise you will forget whats in there. Lets say you started with 2 ozs of litter 1 teaspoon of salt in 8 ozs of water and your R/H is 6o%.

Start with another 2 ozs of litter go to 2 teaspoons of salt see what happens. Up and down play with it till its right. Its infinitely adjustable. But the work you put into it is well worth the savings. There are two kinds of people, people who change their own oil. People who have somebody else do it. If you are the later this is probably not for you. Litter is not like beads they are not plug and play. You gotta fudge em and what works for me may not work for you. GOOD LUCK.


----------



## Benaj85

Dread said:


> What kitty litter is there thats currently available that works? This is the only stuff I can find and I dont want the odor eater in my humidor
> 
> ExquisiCat® Crystals Cat Litter - Sale - Cat - PetSmart


Dread,

I am using that same litter with the blue beads in there still. If you read the packaging there is no sent to the litter. It is maintaining 67-70% but I have them almost 100% clear. I just mixed it 70/30 wet/dry and its maintaining 63-67%.

I think the blue color is just to make the litter look prettier. Some people have said the blue crystals release moisture and the white absorb? Not sure if that is true but its cheap and works. I use it in the vino where the condensation drains I have them in a 6" saucer about 1/2" deep. I also have PC fans blowing across them on a timer.


----------



## Dread

Awesome, so I have 5 cubic feet of space. heartfelt beads recommend a pound of beads for that. So Ill give a pound- pound and a half of the kitty litter a shot and see how it works out.


----------



## marked

asmartbull said:


> If you soaked HF beads, they are probably ruined.
> You removed the salt.
> 
> Always Spray, or use passive absorbtion


They're the cat crystals, not heartfelt.


----------



## saigon68

Kenny,
What do you use to put the crystals in & how much do use in each?


----------



## aea6574

Ok, I think i need to try this. I have another cooler almost ready to go, just need some money for some more cigars.

Good excuse to go to the pet store.

Best regards, tony


----------



## JustOneMoreStick

While you are at petsmart go by the aquarium section, they have 4x12 inch mesh sleeves for aquarium filters there 99cents each they work good and have a drawstring. 

Or you can always use tupperware bowls or stockings snatched from the wife (not as sturdy) if you are trying to go really cheap on this. 

Gee honey I didnt mean to give you that run in the top....


----------



## marked

TonyBrooklyn said:


> Like Bull Man said if you soaked em the salt is gone they are ruined. All depends on the setup and situation. Start adding salt slowly take readings every day if you still to low add more salt. Every time your not where you wanna be you gotta start with fresh litter and water solution. Otherwise you will forget whats in there. Lets say you started with 2 ozs of litter 1 teaspoon of salt in 8 ozs of water and your R/H is 6o%.
> 
> Start with another 2 ozs of litter go to 2 teaspoons of salt see what happens. Up and down play with it till its right. Its infinitely adjustable. But the work you put into it is well worth the savings. There are two kinds of people, people who change their own oil. People who have somebody else do it. If you are the later this is probably not for you. Litter is not like beads they are not plug and play. You gotta fudge em and what works for me may not work for you. GOOD LUCK.


Okay, I'm starting over. I have 3oz of crystals, with 1.5 in a nylon in the top, and another 1.5 in a rectangle humidifier in the bottom. I replaced all the crystals, and sprayed them with a mixture of 8oz of DW and 2 tsp of salt. I'll keep it shut up until tomorrow (the hardest part) and see where I'm sitting.


----------



## Slowpokebill

I've left the blue crystals in and they work fine and give off no odor and don't seem to suck andy odors up. You do need to make sure that you get the unscented litter.


----------



## asmartbull

marked said:


> Okay, I'm starting over. I have 3oz of crystals, with 1.5 in a nylon in the top, and another 1.5 in a rectangle humidifier in the bottom. I replaced all the crystals, and sprayed them with a mixture of 8oz of DW and 2 tsp of salt. I'll keep it shut up until tomorrow (the hardest part) and see where I'm sitting.


Mark
I see you are in arizona
I have found that most of my sticks smoke better and taste better
between 60-65 rh.
I would bring your rh up slowly and see what works for you.
Holding 60 rh would be great for ME
Just a thought


----------



## jim_jones

I have the ExquisiCat Crystals in my two humidors, I took the blue crystals out in one and left them in the other, haven't seen a difference they both stay right around 63%.


----------



## TonyBrooklyn

marked said:


> Okay, I'm starting over. I have 3oz of crystals, with 1.5 in a nylon in the top, and another 1.5 in a rectangle humidifier in the bottom. I replaced all the crystals, and sprayed them with a mixture of 8oz of DW and 2 tsp of salt. I'll keep it shut up until tomorrow (the hardest part) and see where I'm sitting.


I personally place kitty litter in an open container. No need to separate put the whole amount in one container. Don't forget your humidor has been at 60% r/h all this time. So even if you where at lets say 61 or 62 now. That might be the humidor sucking up the extra r/h also the cigars will suck it up. Another words you might already be where you want to be and not know it.op2:


----------



## marked

Cracked the lid to grab a smoke this morning, so it's been a little over 12 hours. 

59%

:|


----------



## TonyBrooklyn

marked said:


> Cracked the lid to grab a smoke this morning, so it's been a little over 12 hours.
> 
> 59%
> 
> :|


Your cigars and humidor are probably soaking up the excess moisture.
Try this put about 6 ozs of litter in the bottom of your humidor. In a dish something that exposes them you want the most surface area. Hydrate them till they all clear with plain DW leave it closed for 48 hrs. If you want something to smoke take it out now put it in a baggie. See what you have after 48 hrs. We will go from there if you want help that is.


----------



## marked

TonyBrooklyn said:


> Your cigars and humidor are probably soaking up the excess moisture.
> Try this put about 6 ozs of litter in the bottom of your humidor. In a dish something that exposes them you want the most surface area. Hydrate them till they all clear with plain DW leave it closed for 48 hrs. If you want something to smoke take it out now put it in a baggie. See what you have after 48 hrs. We will go from there if you want help that is.


Okay....I had to remove a number of sticks...basically everything in the bottom right section. I used a flat tupperware container with 6oz of litter as hydrated as I could get it. The sticks I took out, I put in a large tupperware container with a couple of small containers that hold a total of about 4oz. I didn't hydrate those as throroughly, but pretty well. We'll check Saturday morning and see what's up.

When I was setting all this up, I was kinda wondering if I may have not seasoned the humidor enough in the beginning. I think I may have rushed the process, and perhaps that's the problem.


----------



## Gibson

Dread said:


> What kitty litter is there thats currently available that works? This is the only stuff I can find and I dont want the odor eater in my humidor


For what it's worth, many of the reviews by people using it as cat litter say it's horrible at removing odors. :smile:

I'm finishing a vinodor and am going to try them out.


----------



## TonyBrooklyn

marked said:


> Okay....I had to remove a number of sticks...basically everything in the bottom right section. I used a flat tupperware container with 6oz of litter as hydrated as I could get it. The sticks I took out, I put in a large tupperware container with a couple of small containers that hold a total of about 4oz. I didn't hydrate those as throroughly, but pretty well. We'll check Saturday morning and see what's up.
> 
> When I was setting all this up, I was kinda wondering if I may have not seasoned the humidor enough in the beginning. I think I may have rushed the process, and perhaps that's the problem.


That and the dry climate your in. Let it sit 2 days we will take it from there.:rockon:


----------



## Dread

How much water do you guys add to a pound of litter beads? These seem like the absorb a lot more water than heartfelt beads.


----------



## TonyBrooklyn

I never hydrate more than 50% of the litter.
You gotta use more litter than beads.
About twice as much for the same area.


----------



## Dread

Ah ok that makes sense, I was spraying them at the same time as the heartfelt beads and the heartfelts turned clear with way less water.


----------



## TonyBrooklyn

Dread said:


> Ah ok that makes sense, I was spraying them at the same time as the heartfelt beads and the heartfelts turned clear with way less water.


In something of that size it makes more sense to go the passive route as i posted earlier.


----------



## marked

Update....

So, today I realized that when I put in the 6oz of fully hydrated crystals, I didn't take out the other 3oz that were already in there...duh. So, I cracked the lid and pulled those out. The hygro was sitting at 63% when I cracked the lid. I'm going to leave it for another 24 hours with just the 6oz in the box and see if it changes.


----------



## TonyBrooklyn

marked said:


> Update....
> 
> So, today I realized that when I put in the 6oz of fully hydrated crystals, I didn't take out the other 3oz that were already in there...duh. So, I cracked the lid and pulled those out. The hygro was sitting at 63% when I cracked the lid. I'm going to leave it for another 24 hours with just the 6oz in the box and see if it changes.


63% i what i run all year for C.C's. If your storing N.C;s 65% will do ya your almost there!:beerchug:


----------



## Dread

I doubled the amount of litter in my cabinet, lightly sprayed them and added 2 shot glasses of distilled on each shelf to help hydrate the beads and environment collectivly. it was at 52% this morning, currently at 58% of all 3 shelves. Cat litter works.


----------



## TonyBrooklyn

Dread said:


> I doubled the amount of litter in my cabinet, lightly sprayed them and added 2 shot glasses of distilled on each shelf to help hydrate the beads and environment collectivly. it was at 52% this morning, currently at 58% of all 3 shelves. Cat litter works.


Give it time my man spend the extra cash on cigars that's what i do.:dude:


----------



## Dread

As soon as you said I needed to double the amount I did and within hours I saw the 6% increase, thats big right there. Hopefully by mid next week my cabinet will be stable and ready to stock up, so far im definetly a believer in the litter.


----------



## The Waco Kid

I just now noticed this thread. I've been fooling around with the kitty litter also. Tony's given some excellent advice. I've been adding salt to the distilled water in the spray bottle, spraying the crystals, sealing them up with a hygrometer for a day or so, and then checking the measurement. I don't think it will be any problem at all to find a salt/water mixture that will hold 65% just perfectly.

Currently I've just got the crystals and a hygrometer in a tupperware container. Once I get the mixture right at 65%, I'm going to set up a coolerdor with some empty cigar boxes and see if that comes to 65% also. I expect it to be completely stable, which means it will make a very cheap coolerdor - $17 for the Igloo, $20 for the hygro, $5 for a 5 lb container of store brand litter crystals at Kroger, and some cigar boxes. Can't beat that!


----------



## TonyBrooklyn

Great Great Great i am glad you guys are open minded and using what has been given to you! :grouphug:That makes me so happy when i can help another BOTL! Carry on gentlemen!:smoke:


----------



## marked

TonyBrooklyn said:


> 63% i what i run all year for C.C's. If your storing N.C;s 65% will do ya your almost there!:beerchug:


Okay..... so I'm wanting to run them between 65-70%. Let's say it doesn't get higher than 63%, and that's with 6oz of litter in a 100ct (generous count number) humidor with only 45 sticks in it currently. What would be my next step?


----------



## asmartbull

marked said:


> Okay..... so I'm wanting to run them between 65-70%. Let's say it doesn't get higher than 63%, and that's with 6oz of litter in a 100ct (generous count number) humidor with only 45 sticks in it currently. What would be my next step?


I am also new to KL, but I would add water to KL to see how it responds.
A few guys have said the maintain 67 with 70% moist. Adding a salt/water mix would be the last variable I would introduce.....


----------



## The Waco Kid

For me, running the KL moist produced about a 75% RH.


----------



## TonyBrooklyn

marked said:


> Okay..... so I'm wanting to run them between 65-70%. Let's say it doesn't get higher than 63%, and that's with 6oz of litter in a 100ct (generous count number) humidor with only 45 sticks in it currently. What would be my next step?


I really don't like to wet more than 50% of the beads err i mean litter. So i would now that your almost there. Add a little salt to the water see what happens.:smoke:


----------



## Chala

Kenny Powers said:


> I recently ordered 70% RH beads in a plastic style container from a cigar accessory dealer that is very reputable in these forums. I will not name them because I do not want to hurt their business. I put the beads in my small 30 count humidor and did not open it for 2 days because I wanted to make sure it had time to stabilize. The first time I opened the box my 2 calibrated digital hygrometers read 63%. I still continued to use the 70% RH beads over the course of a week and the RH level never passed 64%. Thinking I might have got a bad batch, I ordered the same product from the same company and got the same results. I gave up on them because I prefer my cigars in a environment over 65%. After reading so much about the kitty litter crystals I decided to give them a try and purchased the ExquisiCat brand. I took the 70%RH beads out of their container and loaded the same container with the kitty litter. Before I put these in my humidor I emailed the company and explained to them what some people were using their product for and my main question was "why do these create a environment between 65%-70% RH ?" Two days later I received a phone call from a representative at the company who happened to be a cigar aficionado. He stated he has been using the ExquisiCat kitty litter for 2 years in all 3 of his humidors and has never had a problem with them maintaining humidity. To make a long story short, he went on to tell me that after extensive research and development the scientist who developed their kitty litter found that the odor control mechanism worked best if the crystals constantly tried stabilizing themselves at 68%RH. He said, in a open environment the RH would most likely not be 68% and it's not the humid environment that controls the odor but instead it is the crystals working on releasing and absorbing to try and maintain 68% RH and in an enclosed environment they will stabilize and maintain a humidity level of 68% -1/+1%. Needless to say I sprayed them with some distilled water and threw them in my humidor. I couldn't take the anticipation any more so I opened the lid at about the two hour mark and what do you know, both hygrometers read 68%. They have only been in for two days and the hygrometers are constantly reading 68%. One more thing. He said the white crystals are designed to absorb and release moisture and the blue crystals were designed to only release moisture.
> 
> PS. These crystals are not scented and are made from 100% Silica.
> 
> PRETTY COOL UH?


Thanks is this what i need? ExquisiCat® Crystals - Cat - PetSmart


----------



## Evonnida

Chala said:


> Thanks is this what i need? ExquisiCat® Crystals - Cat - PetSmart


Exactly!


----------



## Chala

Evonnida said:


> Exactly!


Thanks Erich


----------



## NoShhhSherlock

Nice, KL is a wonderful product!


----------



## falconman515

Quick question on this stuff.... I read in a few places that you shouldn't use KL that has the colored crystal (just use all white) which this has.

Is this the stuff that mostly everyone would recommend? And why did I read somewhere to not sure KL with colored crystals in it.

I bought a 1/2lb bag of 70%rh silica beads from an online cigar shop but it seems more people have better luck with the KL over the online beads.

I just received my beads today but just want to ask this question about this specific KL just in case I am one of the unlucky ones where the beads I go don't do the trick.

Thanks so much for the info.


----------



## gahdzila

falconman515 said:


> Quick question on this stuff.... I read in a few places that you shouldn't use KL that has the colored crystal (just use all white) which this has.
> 
> Is this the stuff that mostly everyone would recommend? And why did I read somewhere to not sure KL with colored crystals in it.
> 
> I bought a 1/2lb bag of 70%rh silica beads from an online cigar shop but it seems more people have better luck with the KL over the online beads.
> 
> I just received my beads today but just want to ask this question about this specific KL just in case I am one of the unlucky ones where the beads I go don't do the trick.
> 
> Thanks so much for the info.


Originally, some guys were kinda scared that the blue crystals had scent in them or something. But the consensus now is that the blue crystals are just colored and are no different than the white ones. Just make sure you buy UNSCENTED KL and you're fine, no matter what color it is.

KL isn't necessarily BETTER than beads. KL just works just as well (after a little trial and error to get the right amount of KL and water for your situation) and is far cheaper.


----------



## Murph2che

I've been trying to season my humidor for over two weeks and can't get it above 60%. My house if very low humidity, but I've tried many things; sponge on plastic, shot glass of water/hot water, seasoning humidification pillow pack, wiping the wood with a lightly damp cloth. Nothing puts it over 60% and I'm afraid once I load my sticks in it will suck a good deal more moisture out. I've only been opening it once every 24 hours to check the humidity. It's a 100 count desktop. Perhaps introducing some KL will finally get me up to 65%-67%.


----------



## falconman515

Murph2che said:


> I've been trying to season my humidor for over two weeks and can't get it above 60%. My house if very low humidity, but I've tried many things; sponge on plastic, shot glass of water/hot water, seasoning humidification pillow pack, wiping the wood with a lightly damp cloth. Nothing puts it over 60% and I'm afraid once I load my sticks in it will suck a good deal more moisture out. I've only been opening it once every 24 hours to check the humidity. It's a 100 count desktop. Perhaps introducing some KL will finally get me up to 65%-67%.


Doing everything you have done is what should get you up in Rh... KL will stabilize your Humi around 63-65% or so but if you are wiping down the cedar with DW and leaving in sponges with DW etc. your Rh should be at like 75-85%

When seasoning it should get that high first then once its seasoned it should stabilize around the 65% range all depending what you are using.

60% is still a good Rh to store your sticks in but yes once you throw them in there it will suck up some of the moisture I'm sure.

The only thing I can recommend is make sure your Hygrometer is calibrated correctly... and if you are using an analog hygro in your humi toss it and get a digital one (I recommend a Caliber III).

Let us know how you are gauging your Rh then we can go from there.


----------



## TonyBrooklyn

Don [Hurf and Turfs] thread on how to season a humidor!
Follow the instructions you cant miss!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Murph2che

Thanks for the suggestion Chris! I have been starting to question my hygo. It's an analog that came with me humi. I should get a different one for a double check at the very least.

I'll comb through Don's seasoning post too, thanks Tony. Perhaps there's something I've been forgetting or neglecting.


----------



## falconman515

Murph2che said:


> Thanks for the suggestion Chris! I have been starting to question my hygo. It's an analog that came with me humi. I should get a different one for a double check at the very least.
> 
> I'll comb through Don's seasoning post too, thanks Tony. Perhaps there's something I've been forgetting or neglecting.


Ohhh ya!!! Dont even pay attention to that analog Hygro!

Get yourself a digital... whether its a descent Calliber III or Hygroset, or even if its just a $7 one from walmart.

Analogs are in no way shape or form accurate and if you have never done a salt test or boveda test with your analog then it could be WAY off.

For sure get yourself a digital hygro and you may be shocked at what your Rh actually is.

And for sure follow Hurf N Tufs seasoning process and you will be golden.

But from the sound of things you have more than likely fully seasoned your humi you just dont have the correct reading device to know that for sure.

Once you get that new Hygro you'll be good to brother.

Let me know if I can help any further.


----------



## chef-zorba

Just jumped on the KL train. Picked up ExquisiCat Crystals and placed them into my humi for a test run. Misted about 50% of them and mixed them in with 50% dry. Sifting through all of the opinions and discusions on here about how to use them correctly will leave you spinning. So I "assume" Im doing this right. Check it in an hour or 2 and if its between 67-70% Im a happy camper!


----------



## Murph2che

Thanks for the info and the suggestions Chris. I stopped by a strip mall tobacco shop I spotted running an errand today, but unfortunately no digital hygros. I'll stop by a nicer shop this weekend, or order one online.


----------



## Johnpaul

falconman515 said:


> And for sure follow Hurf N Tufs seasoning process and you will be golden.


What is Hurf N Tufs seasoning process. Sorry but with a quick search I was not finding it.


----------



## falconman515

Johnpaul said:


> What is Hurf N Tufs seasoning process. Sorry but with a quick search I was not finding it.


http://www.cigarforums.net/forums/v...5096-how-herf-n-turf-seasons-new-humidor.html

There Ya Go


----------



## falconman515

Murph2che said:


> Thanks for the info and the suggestions Chris. I stopped by a strip mall tobacco shop I spotted running an errand today, but unfortunately no digital hygros. I'll stop by a nicer shop this weekend, or order one online.


Western Caliber III 3 Cigar Humidor Digital Hygrometer - eBay (item 280642857399 end time Sep-07-11 09:16:42 PDT)

Crazy Fast Shipping, Above and beyond customer service for the products he sells. and the cheapest I fond for a quality digital.

I bought a boveda calibration just be safe and it was dead on perfectly calibrated out of the box.... these are pre-calibrated at factory.

Just a suggestion, Mine works great and they get good reviews for the price.


----------



## Johnpaul

Thanks, that is a very helpful link. I am trying to get a wineadore going and I'm having trouble getting it up with with wet foam and pg. I'm going to pick up kl today and see if it does the trick for me.


----------



## Valdi

Kenny Powers said:


> I recently ordered 70% RH beads in a plastic style container from a cigar accessory dealer that is very reputable in these forums. I will not name them because I do not want to hurt their business. I put the beads in my small 30 count humidor and did not open it for 2 days because I wanted to make sure it had time to stabilize. The first time I opened the box my 2 calibrated digital hygrometers read 63%. I still continued to use the 70% RH beads over the course of a week and the RH level never passed 64%. Thinking I might have got a bad batch, I ordered the same product from the same company and got the same results. I gave up on them because I prefer my cigars in a environment over 65%. After reading so much about the kitty litter crystals I decided to give them a try and purchased the ExquisiCat brand. I took the 70%RH beads out of their container and loaded the same container with the kitty litter. Before I put these in my humidor I emailed the company and explained to them what some people were using their product for and my main question was "why do these create a environment between 65%-70% RH ?" Two days later I received a phone call from a representative at the company who happened to be a cigar aficionado. He stated he has been using the ExquisiCat kitty litter for 2 years in all 3 of his humidors and has never had a problem with them maintaining humidity. To make a long story short, he went on to tell me that after extensive research and development the scientist who developed their kitty litter found that the odor control mechanism worked best if the crystals constantly tried stabilizing themselves at 68%RH. He said, in a open environment the RH would most likely not be 68% and it's not the humid environment that controls the odor but instead it is the crystals working on releasing and absorbing to try and maintain 68% RH and in an enclosed environment they will stabilize and maintain a humidity level of 68% -1/+1%. Needless to say I sprayed them with some distilled water and threw them in my humidor. I couldn't take the anticipation any more so I opened the lid at about the two hour mark and what do you know, both hygrometers read 68%. They have only been in for two days and the hygrometers are constantly reading 68%. One more thing. He said the white crystals are designed to absorb and release moisture and the blue crystals were designed to only release moisture.
> 
> PS. These crystals are not scented and are made from 100% Silica.
> 
> PRETTY COOL UH?


My supplier of RH beads, also well known and reputable on many cigar forums, let me down too. A year and a half ago he sold mi wrong grade of RH bead I just find out that my 65% RH beads are really 70 % RH. I almost ruined my Cuban cigar collection (slightly white molded) 8 full boxes of Cuban cigars in total. I e-mailed him last week and shared my problem with him, so far no replay to the e-mail .Yesterday I purchased 8 Lb. of ExquisiCat Crystals Cat Litter for CAD$16 and from now I will not buy any RH beads EVER!!!!Humidity in my Cuban humidor is now 65%!!!!!

Thank you Brothers of the Leaf: :grouphug:


----------



## Herf N Turf

Valdi said:


> My supplier of RH beads, also well known and reputable on many cigar forums, let me down too. A year and a half ago he sold mi wrong grade of RH bead I just find out that my 65% RH beads are really 70 % RH. I almost ruined my Cuban cigar collection (slightly white molded) 8 full boxes of Cuban cigars in total. I e-mailed him last week and shared my problem with him, so far no replay to the e-mail .Yesterday I purchased 8 Lb. of ExquisiCat Crystals Cat Litter for CAD$16 and from now I will not buy any RH beads EVER!!!!Humidity in my Cuban humidor is now 65%!!!!!
> 
> Thank you Brothers of the Leaf: :grouphug:


Just a word to the wise, Brother, before you go smacking down a well-respected. fellow BOTL, for _supposedly _sending you inaccurate beads, why not consider the fact that almost ALL HDSG (high-density silica gel beads) are far more accurate than a cut-rate hygrometer?

Over the past three years, I have personally answered at least a hundred PM's from guys who were SO CERTAIN that that they'd been sent the wrong value beads. Only to discover that their hygrometers and their own practices were to blame.

Just sayin' :shocked:


----------



## Valdi

Herf N Turf said:


> Just a word to the wise, Brother, before you go smacking down a well-respected. fellow BOTL, for _supposedly _sending you inaccurate beads, why not consider the fact that almost ALL HDSG (high-density silica gel beads) are far more accurate than a cut-rate hygrometer?
> 
> Over the past three years, I have personally answered at least a hundred PM's from guys who were SO CERTAIN that that they'd been sent the wrong value beads. Only to discover that their hygrometers and their own practices were to blame.
> 
> Just sayin' :shocked:


I understand your frustration Brother, but it is impossible that 3 calibrated hydrometers are wrong showing exactly the same humidity levels when so called 65% Humidity beads are placed in air tide zip log bag with hydrometers in question and guess what Brother Humidity level shown on all of the 3 hydrometers show exactly the same humidyty levels, dead on 70% RH. How would you explaine it to me Brother?
I think your post was a little bit insulting. :redface:


----------



## falconman515

Valdi ..... Please see his above Disclaimer!


----------



## Scottye83

The only crystal cat litter I can find nearly is Fresh Step Crystals, they are unscented, are those basically the same?


----------



## Valdi

falconman515 said:


> Valdi ..... Please see his above Disclaimer!


So with disclaimer like this, can you write anything about anyone????


----------



## falconman515

Valdi said:


> So with disclaimer like this, can you write anything about anyone????


No its not brother.... when you read it it sounds a bit off color to me too but that's a forum.... that's why text messages are horrible cause when it's written instead of voiced it always sounds wrong or rude some how.

Herf is a tough cookie but is only here to help and I'm sure he meant no disrespect at all.

I just happen to see his disclaimer at the bottom of his post when I read it and thought it was funny and kinda applied to his comment.

Some brothers are a bit more forward that others but in the end normally always just here to help and not be rude by any means.

I have fell victim to taking offense in the past as well that has got me in hot water a bit cause I tend to go off when it sounds of color in anyway.... but like I said writing stuff always sounds a bit forward than saying it so I have learned to not take replies in a negative light and take it for a more forward comment and reply to what I originally post or say.


----------



## Mante

The crux of the matter is this Valdi. Don was suggesting (in his own unique way) that if you have an issue with a vendor then take it up with the vendor instead of posting derogatory comments about your experience here. What sounds like a minor mistake on somebodies part re your beads does not deserve such public posting without both parties being involved & more often than not leads to a slinging match & the member list here being edited. In the past we have seen to many drama threads created over similar situations, many ending up with the OP red faced and the members here upset over trivial things so might I suggest you take a step back & reconsider what you choose to post on the matter from here on in.


----------



## Valdi

falconman515 said:


> No its not brother.... when you read it it sounds a bit off color to me too but that's a forum.... that's why text messages are horrible cause when it's written instead of voiced it always sounds wrong or rude some how.
> 
> Herf is a tough cookie but is only here to help and I'm sure he meant no disrespect at all.
> 
> I just happen to see his disclaimer at the bottom of his post when I read it and thought it was funny and kinda applied to his comment.
> 
> Some brothers are a bit more forward that others but in the end normally always just here to help and not be rude by any means.
> 
> I have fell victim to taking offense in the past as well that has got me in hot water a bit cause I tend to go off when it sounds of color in anyway.... but like I said writing stuff always sounds a bit forward than saying it so I have learned to not take replies in a negative light and take it for a more forward comment and reply to what I originally post or say.


Brother Chris
Thank you for your very diplomatic and reasonable explanation. No I don't feel offended in any way and I'm a tough cookie too and never take anything for granted, ever. Thanks again brother.:thumb:


----------



## Valdi

Tashaz said:


> The crux of the matter is this Valdi. Don was suggesting (in his own unique way) that if you have an issue with a vendor then take it up with the vendor instead of posting derogatory comments about your experience here. What sounds like a minor mistake on somebodies part re your beads does not deserve such public posting without both parties being involved & more often than not leads to a slinging match & the member list here being edited. In the past we have seen to many drama threads created over similar situations, many ending up with the OP red faced and the members here upset over trivial things so might I suggest you take a step back & reconsider what you choose to post on the matter from here on in.


Well, brother Warren,I wrote to the vendor two e-mails already. No reply so far, so I switched to kitty litter.So far working well.


----------



## Mante

Valdi said:


> Well, brother Warren,I wrote to the vendor two e-mails already. No reply so far, so I switched to kitty litter.So far working well.


I'm glad you've got something that is working for you. :thumb:


----------



## Valdi

Tashaz said:


> I'm glad you've got something that is working for you. :thumb:


Im sure RH beads would work too if they were sold with correct grade(65%) humidity.:thumb:


----------



## Flugplatz

I have a concern with the Kitty Litter. And maybe somebody out there has an answer from the company. But isn't this product supposed to do something with odor once deposits are made in the litter pan? (It's intended use) While I do use the beads in my humidors, and it does a great job at controlling humidity, there's something in the back of my mind saying that it's absorbing some of my cedar and tobacco scents. Like oils and flavor. Any thoughts?


----------



## falconman515

Flugplatz said:


> I have a concern with the Kitty Litter. And maybe somebody out there has an answer from the company. But isn't this product supposed to do something with odor once deposits are made in the litter pan? (It's intended use) While I do use the beads in my humidors, and it does a great job at controlling humidity, there's something in the back of my mind saying that it's absorbing some of my cedar and tobacco scents. Like oils and flavor. Any thoughts?


Wish I could give you a scinetific answer but all I know it holds my RH rock solid day in and day out and when I open the roor of my cooler I am floored with nothing but sweet Spanish Cedar and cigar smell.

If it absorbed that then there would be a problem but I couldnt imagine it being any stronger when I open the door so I'm sure it's not doing what you are talking about.

Read this earlier ... doesn't say much about odor absobtion, it has some great info shwoing how KL is essentially the same thing as beads! Check it out:



numismaniac said:


> A lot of that is pure marketing speak and is largely just flat wrong and with no basis in science. Silica gel beads come in several varieties with the main three being nano-pore (type A), micro-pore (type B) and wide (or macro) pore (type C). Each type has specific characteristics which lend them to be suited for particular uses.
> 
> Type A nano-pore beads are generally best suited to desiccant-only use. Type-A beads have a very narrow range of humidity response regardless of temp (within limits) or humidity (within limits) up to their capacity to absorb moisture. Since the appearance of the various types of silica gel beads is pretty much identical, an easy way to ID type A beads is to spray or soak them with water. Type A nano-pore beads will fracture (break into many pieces/turn to sand) in the presence of liquid water.
> 
> Type B and Type C are both suitable for humidity control and the level of humidity (the set point) is based on pre-conditioning and the essentially linear response curve of these bead types. Type B and Type C beads tend to adsorb (not absorb) moisture at high relative humidity levels and desorb as humidity levels fall. This response curve is why Type B and Type C beads are in fact the base products for humidity control in contained museum exhibit and gallery use. (Artsorb.) (See some response curves for the various types of silica gels in the charts at Broadchem* at Qingdao Broadchem Industrial Co., Ltd and WR Grace at W. R. Grace & Co. Enriching Lives, Everywhere.® - Adsorption on Silica Gels.) Beads are not "pre-set" as "pre-set" implies that beads will maintain one specific level of humidity up to the limits of adsorption (saturation) or desorbtion (dry.) Silica gel beads are instead "pre-conditioned" (which is to say they are "set" to a level of RH at a certain temperature by exposing them to the desired RH at the desired temp until they achieve equilibrium.)
> 
> Heartfelt beads are just plain silica gel type B or Type C beads. Nothing more. Nothing less. There is nothing magic about them except the price. Buy the cheapest Type B or Type C beads you can find and use those. The silica beads in some brands of cat litter** are suitable. (It isn't cat litter until your cat uses it. It's just silica gel.)
> 
> Sorry if I've stepped on any toes here, but this is an area I happen to know something about based on years of work for the archives at the Air War College at Maxwell AFB in Montgomery, AL. I had wondered about Heartfelt and their claims for a while. I have no idea if they believe what they are saying or if they just don't understand the science. Either way, their product is nothing special. Just over priced.
> 
> *The Broadchem charts are probably the more instructive. Suffice to say that these charts show that both Type B and Type C beads have the ability to adsorb more moisture at high levels of RH and less moisture at low levels of RH. Think about what that means and you will see that contra the marketing speak claim ("Humidification beads give off water vapor, as well as absorb it, to maintain a specific RH which is ideal for a cigars particular need. This is not the case with silica gel which can only absorb water then must be dried out after it is saturated"), Type B and Type C beads do in fact have the inherent ability to both adsorb and desorb. In fact, even Type A beads can both adsorb and desorb moisture, but the limited response curve of such nano-pore beads is not well suited for RH set-point stabilization so much as for drying.
> 
> **Crystal Clear Litter Pearls are generally Type B, Type C or some mixture of the two and are perfectly suited for the purpose of cigar humidor humidity stabilization and control.


----------



## dofman

KL doesn't absorb odor from the air like charcoal. Unless you put your sticks directly on kl and it soak all the oil, you should be fine.

It reduces cat urine odor by keeping the proteins inside and slowly releasing wathever left liquid (ammonia) after +30min.


----------



## TonyBrooklyn

There is an answer on how it works right here http://www.cigarforums.net/forums/vb/cigar-accessory-discussion/276966-kitty-litter-set-up.html
A Kitty Litter convert posted it yesterday:thumb:
Scroll down a couple of posts.


----------



## Flugplatz

Great information on the three types of silica. I can understand Charcoal drawing in odor, but these crystals are cool in the way of how is is holding and releasing humidity.


----------



## evenstill

Hi all,

I'm a newbie to the forum . . . well, actually to cigar smoking too. I used to smoke years ago and am just now picking it back up.

So far I've read every post in this thread and it's some really great info. However, it's enough to make your head spin and there are some things that don't seem to have been definitively addressed so I've got a list of questions. Please be patient with me. :smile:

Blue or Clear Silica Crystals:
As far as I can tell the color of the crystals doesn't actually matter, right? I would probably just use the clear ones anyway. My wife has some golden green silica beads she uses to keep her dried herbs dry. On the other hand, I read about one person who noticed that the deep blue crystals turn light blue when hydrated and darken as they dry out which could serve as a good visual cue as to when to rehydrate. Any info or thoughts regarding this feature of the blue crystals?

Amount:
I've read that you need to use twice as much KL (by weight) than "humidor" beads, is this correct? I'm currently using a 40-50 stick desktop humidor and some smaller 20-25 stick humidors. How much KL would I need for these sizes of humidors to keep the RH around 65% to maybe 68% in Central Texas?

Hydration:
I've seen suggestions to hydrate the KL ranging from 50% - 75% of the crystals. Why? What happens if you hydrate all of them?
After the proper amount of crystals have been hydrated can the dry crystals then be mixed with them in the same container or should they be kept separate for some reason? If they need to be kept separate, what's the purpose?

I've also seen suggestions to use nothing but DW and others to use some sort of DW/salt mixture. What purpose does the salt serve? If salt is used, what proportion of salt to water should be used? Someone on a thread over at cigarbid forum said "As far as "training", the beads go that is what you are paying the premium to HF for. They "train" these in bulk, they are simply Type B/C silica beads and when trained or conditioned with differing solutions. Sodium Chloride (table salt) will yield 75%, Copper Chloride 68%, Sodium Bromide (used in polls and spas) 65% and magnesium nitrate 60%. I can purchase 7 lbs of KL beads for $11 and some Sodium Chloride from my pool supply store for ~$10 and I have enough solution to condition enough beads for me and a few other BOTLs for a fraction (~$215 + $30 shipping) of the cost." So I guess I can "dope" the DW with some Sodium Chloride to ensure a stable 65% RH but I'm unsure how much Sodium Chloride to use and in what proportion in relation to the DW and in relation to the KL. Any info or thoughts regarding this?

What is the proper proportion of liquid to KL? If I'm using, say 2 ounces of KL, and hydrating 50% of it (1 oz) then should I use equal proportions of fluid to KL (1oz of liquid added to the 1oz of KL I'm going to hydrate)?

How should one apply the fluid to the KL? Some people have mentioned using a spray bottle to hydrate the KL but why couldn't you just add the amount of KL you want to hydrate to the appropriate amount of fluid in a cup or something until they have absorbed it all? What about adding the total amount of KL you want to use (lets just say 2 ounces again) to the desired container then adding fluid up to the 50% or 75% mark on the container (much like using those Drymistate Tubes)?

Aside from answers to these questions, any other tips, tricks, suggestions, or other info on the topic would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
~ evenstill


----------



## numismaniac

evenstill,
You are always hydrating all the crystals, just some more than others if you choose to spritz/soak them. I still think the best method , if you have space is to put a shot glass of DW near the beads until your hygro reads what you want. THis may take days or hours. AS you have read (I am on Cbid as well) each bag of KL will already have it's own Rh "set". You may not even need to adjust. Good luck, PM if you need help.




You could experiment with spritzing a 10-15% solution of the salt you choose. I would read up on the metal in the salt and any problems that could occur as it dries and flakes off. Might not want to breathe in or smoke some of the nitrates, bromines, etc.


----------



## gahdzila

evenstill said:


> Blue or Clear Silica Crystals:
> As far as I can tell the color of the crystals doesn't actually matter, right? I would probably just use the clear ones anyway. My wife has some golden green silica beads she uses to keep her dried herbs dry. On the other hand, I read about one person who noticed that the deep blue crystals turn light blue when hydrated and darken as they dry out which could serve as a good visual cue as to when to rehydrate. Any info or thoughts regarding this feature of the blue crystals?


The color of _kitty litter_ crystals doesn't matter. There are other silica crystals out there that have something toxic (cobalt, IIRC?) added to them to change color depending on amount of hydration (pink to blue IIRC), and I wouldn't use them for cigar humidification. In my experience, kitty litter doesn't change color much if at all...certainly much less than "real" cigar humidification beads do. I'd be leary about using your wife's stuff unless I knew exactly what was in it.



evenstill said:


> Amount:
> I've read that you need to use twice as much KL (by weight) than "humidor" beads, is this correct? I'm currently using a 40-50 stick desktop humidor and some smaller 20-25 stick humidors. How much KL would I need for these sizes of humidors to keep the RH around 65% to maybe 68% in Central Texas?


Here's a link to heartfelt's calculator - linky. That will tell you how much beads they recommend for your size humidor. Double that number for a good starting place with KL.



evenstill said:


> Hydration:
> I've seen suggestions to hydrate the KL ranging from 50% - 75% of the crystals. Why? What happens if you hydrate all of them?
> After the proper amount of crystals have been hydrated can the dry crystals then be mixed with them in the same container or should they be kept separate for some reason? If they need to be kept separate, what's the purpose?
> 
> I've also seen suggestions to use nothing but DW and others to use some sort of DW/salt mixture. What purpose does the salt serve? If salt is used, what proportion of salt to water should be used? Someone on a thread over at cigarbid forum said "As far as "training", the beads go that is what you are paying the premium to HF for. They "train" these in bulk, they are simply Type B/C silica beads and when trained or conditioned with differing solutions. Sodium Chloride (table salt) will yield 75%, Copper Chloride 68%, Sodium Bromide (used in polls and spas) 65% and magnesium nitrate 60%. I can purchase 7 lbs of KL beads for $11 and some Sodium Chloride from my pool supply store for ~$10 and I have enough solution to condition enough beads for me and a few other BOTLs for a fraction (~$215 + $30 shipping) of the cost." So I guess I can "dope" the DW with some Sodium Chloride to ensure a stable 65% RH but I'm unsure how much Sodium Chloride to use and in what proportion in relation to the DW and in relation to the KL. Any info or thoughts regarding this?
> 
> What is the proper proportion of liquid to KL? If I'm using, say 2 ounces of KL, and hydrating 50% of it (1 oz) then should I use equal proportions of fluid to KL (1oz of liquid added to the 1oz of KL I'm going to hydrate)?
> 
> How should one apply the fluid to the KL? Some people have mentioned using a spray bottle to hydrate the KL but why couldn't you just add the amount of KL you want to hydrate to the appropriate amount of fluid in a cup or something until they have absorbed it all? What about adding the total amount of KL you want to use (lets just say 2 ounces again) to the desired container then adding fluid up to the 50% or 75% mark on the container (much like using those Drymistate Tubes)?
> 
> Aside from answers to these questions, any other tips, tricks, suggestions, or other info on the topic would be greatly appreciated.
> 
> Thanks,
> ~ evenstill


If you put too much water on your KL, your humidity in your humidor will be way too high. Just like with any other humidification media!

I remember someone trying out salt with variable results in the other KL thread. Most of us don't do the salt thing. Distilled water only.

Here's how I do it (with the caveat that your humidor has a good seal and is already seasoned):

Remove other humidification media from your humidor. Put your kitty litter in your humidor DRY. Don't put ANY water on it during this first phase. Watch your hygrometer for a day or two. Your humidity might be perfect with the dry KL out of the box! If it's lower than you want, lightly mist your KL with a spray bottle of distilled water. Just a squirt or two is all you need! Watch your humidity for a day or two, repeat as needed until your humidity is where you want it to be. Go slow, and don't add water or make any other changes any more often than once or MAYBE twice a day. If you find that you're having trouble getting your humidity stable (like....say....you have to add a LOT of water to get your humidity up, or it spikes way too high and drops quickly, etc), you may need a larger volume of KL, or it may help to spread your KL around in your humidor in more smaller containers.

I'm not much of a believer in "training" kitty litter to hold a certain humidity. Tony says that when it's bone dry it holds at 60%; adding water a little at a time will get you up where you want to be. The temperature and humidity in your house are going to play into what you need individually for your situation as well.

Hope this helps. Good luck, brother!!!


----------



## Fuzzy

There are over 1700 posts of questions and answers on the kitty litter thread started by *TonyBrooklyn*  Some agree some do not. It may take awhile but reading all the posts is an education in kitty litter and,,, the strange and wonderful behavior of the BOTL:clap2:

I have taken from the posts what I thought would work for me, did a little trial and even some error and ended up happy with the results. Remember, as stated by another poster, no amount of litter, beads, Bovida pack or any other form of humidification will really make up for a poor quality humidor of any kind.

To repeat a TonyB mantra, "Kitty Litter Rocks!!!!"


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## TonyBrooklyn

Great explanation Bruce Clifford R/G for you gentlemen.
KITTY LITTER ROCKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## REDROMMY

This thread has been fantastic for me, thanks for all the information. My comfort lies with beads because that's what ive used all along but this thread has opened my mind a lot. In my cooler, i now have 2 tupperware containers and im experimenting with how much water to spray and how long until i have to spray again.


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## evenstill

Gahdzila: you said that "Here's a link to heartfelt's calculator - linky. That will tell you how much beads they recommend for your size humidor. Double that number for a good starting place with KL." I'm curious if surface area is going to be a factor in how well the silica works and how much silica and water are needed. I'm deciding between the normal size Ultra Pet brand pearls (because I like the uniform shape and they have less dust than the typical crystals) and the micro pearls. I contacted the company and they told me that the two products are the same except that the normal sized pearls are between 1-6 mm in diameter while the micro pearls are much smaller like sand. Obviously the micro would have the greatest surface area allowing for more silica exposed to the air which might play a role. Any ideas?

Also, in my research regarding humidor humidification control I've been going through the patents for the drymistat humidification tubes (Patent 5829452 ) which basically just consists of Stockosorb, propylene glycol, and water . . . the Boveda Humidification Packs (Patent 5936178 ) . . . and the heartfelt humidification beads (Patent 7892327 ) which are basically just silica beads that have been doped with lithium chloride salt. There are a number of other interesting humidification patents associated with these products . . . certainly worth a read.

BTW, thank you all who have posted so far . . . this is a great thread. Also, if anyone has any specific answers to the questions I posted above it would still be greatly appreciated. 

~ evenstill


----------



## gahdzila

Exposed surface area definitely makes a difference. You cant put them in a tall slender container open only at the top and expect it to work. Wide flat containers work better. Or mesh bags.

That said, I don't know whether smaller crystal size would make a real world difference or not. Smaller crystals have more total surface area by volume, true....but dump them in a flat container, and does that translate into actual larger exposed surface area? I would think the larger crystals would actually have larger exposed surface area in this instance just because of the taller peaks and valleys across the surface of the container (the total surface area of each crystal is not exposed, only the top. Unless you have a zero gravity humidor and the crystals are free floating). Does that make sense? I dunno, I'm not a scientist or a mathematician, but just picturing it in my mind. Now...how much real-world difference will it make in your humidor either way? I don't know, but my guess is "not much." :mrgreen:


----------



## evenstill

Thank you all for the great posts. I would PM a few of you for more specific information but the site doesn’t seem to want to let me do this so I’ll post here. I want to try some experimentation with KL using various salts and treating/conditioning. I’ve read a number of threads on beads vs KL all over the net and had some more questions. I’ve read so much about this with so much contradiction info that my heads spinning.

1)	I know from reading the Heartfelt patent that they’re product is basically an high density silica that’s been treated with lithium chloride salt in some way so as to form a covalent bond. I’m no chemist and was wondering how these bonds are formed and if there’s a method for doing this at home? There are some other more common salts I’d like to experiment with. I know that Herf N Turf mentioned these covalent bonds before so maybe he will chime in about this.

2)	I’ve read conflicting things regarding the use of a propylene glycol solution with silica KL and wondered what your thoughts are regarding this? I read somewhere the QC for DOW’s propylene glycol business said that since Propylene Glycol is highly hygroscopic and 100% miscible and soluble in any proportion of water it will not obstruct the silica beads' pores and that in fact the silica would likely enhance the hygroscopic abilities of the glycol so there's really no reason not to use PG with silica beads. This seems like it would be an easy way to ensure a RH between 65%-70%.

3) Do any of you know where to buy high density silica for not too much more than KL?

~ evenstill


----------



## Fuzzy

here is a link for silica White Non-Indicating - Loose Silica Gel (Bulk)

It mentions having no added toxic substances and is very expensive compared to unscented kitty litter crystals. eight pounds kl = about ten bucks, one pound bulk for thirty bucks. I use a rotation of about three pounds of Kl and feel like i got a free box of dog walking cigars for free.

Some folks like to do the research on everything that affects their lives. I do a little myself. Since I am a noobie to the "hobby" of cigars, I started to over think, maybe even worry to much about about humidification. Got a humidor that seemed to be OK in the seal area and started to play with the kl. Found I was worrying to much, the litter works without much maintenance. Good seasoned humidor being the key. (that is another thread)

The cooler I use for storage now has dry litter right from the jug. It gets opened once a month whether it needs it or not and I have only misted it once in about six months. The amount of misting will most likely be determined by the weather patterns and season where you live. Summertime average rh for me is right around 80% and the winter for me varies from high 40's to up to 80%

I was over thinking! Once the RH is where I wanted it (63%) it is almost a "set it and forget it" deal. Now, I have a battle ahead for temp. control, but that is several other long threads to study!!


----------



## TonyBrooklyn

evenstill said:


> Thank you all for the great posts. I would PM a few of you for more specific information but the site doesn't seem to want to let me do this so I'll post here. I want to try some experimentation with KL using various salts and treating/conditioning. I've read a number of threads on beads vs KL all over the net and had some more questions. I've read so much about this with so much contradiction info that my heads spinning.
> 
> 1)	I know from reading the Heartfelt patent that they're product is basically an high density silica that's been treated with lithium chloride salt in some way so as to form a covalent bond. I'm no chemist and was wondering how these bonds are formed and if there's a method for doing this at home? There are some other more common salts I'd like to experiment with. I know that Herf N Turf mentioned these covalent bonds before so maybe he will chime in about this.
> 
> 2)	I've read conflicting things regarding the use of a propylene glycol solution with silica KL and wondered what your thoughts are regarding this? I read somewhere the QC for DOW's propylene glycol business said that since Propylene Glycol is highly hygroscopic and 100% miscible and soluble in any proportion of water it will not obstruct the silica beads' pores and that in fact the silica would likely enhance the hygroscopic abilities of the glycol so there's really no reason not to use PG with silica beads. This seems like it would be an easy way to ensure a RH between 65%-70%.
> 
> 3) Do any of you know where to buy high density silica for not too much more than KL?
> 
> ~ evenstill


Never use anything but distilled water. As far as salts i used almost any you can think of they all worked its all in the Kitty Litter Set-Up thread.


----------



## evenstill

evenstill said:


> 1)	I know from reading the Heartfelt patent that they're product is basically an high density silica that's been treated with lithium chloride salt in some way so as to form a covalent bond. I'm no chemist and was wondering how these bonds are formed and if there's a method for doing this at home? There are some other more common salts I'd like to experiment with. I know that Herf N Turf mentioned these covalent bonds before so maybe he will chime in about this.


Does Anybody have an answer or any information regarding my question #1 above . . . how to covalently add/bond salts to the silica medium (specifically in a home environment)? The answer is not on the Kitty Litter Set Up thread or anywhere else on this site (or any other forums I have searched). Thanks. 

Thanks,
~ evenstill


----------



## numismaniac

Ok, here goes
At the least You should look up covalent bond and you can get more than you want to know, I remember this from College Chem. and Organic. There are many types of covalent bonds, all they(HF's chemical supplier, et al) are accomplishing is at a molecular level binding the buffering solution (calcium or lithium chloride, etc salts. Each will buffer at a different RH) to the silica as it is being formed in their machines.

KL doesn't have that much engineering need so you could try to get the only form of covalent bond (electron sharing) possible and that is saturating a salt solution on the silica gel, that is unless you want to go to a local college and convince a prof. to take this on as a fun experiment (FInd a cigar smoker, done deal). Maybe spritz, maybe soak for a few moments or minutes, however much you want to experiment, the larger an area you can hydrate at once the better and avoid using anything but glass if possible for storage and hydrating/experimenting purposes, rinsing them with DW before each use, keep good notes, but honestly, IMHO, from what I read here and other forums, most KL is easy to get to hold at 60 to 70 with a little checking and training (adding water or fresh drier litter to achieve desired level) Just saying. Maybe I've just got too many of my own experiments going , maybe just getting older, but I would like to know what you find out. I am a chemist/researcher at heart as well.


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## Michigan_Moose

It is all I use


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## evenstill

numismaniac said:


> Ok, here goes
> At the least You should look up covalent bond and you can get more than you want to know . . . . . KL doesn't have that much engineering need so you could try to get the only form of covalent bond (electron sharing) possible and that is saturating a salt solution on the silica gel . . . . . Maybe spritz, maybe soak for a few moments or minutes, however much you want to experiment, the larger an area you can hydrate at once the better and avoid using anything but glass if possible for storage and hydrating/experimenting purposes . . . . .


Thanks numismaniac. I spent quite a while searching the net trying to find out how to form covalent bonds at home but never found any info that I could use. So forming covalent bonds is really as simple as just soaking the silica in the desired salt solution? Would it help if after the "salt soak" I then dried the silica in a food dehydrator or oven? What about performing a couple of salt soak/dry cycles?

~ evenstill


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## numismaniac

Something else to consider, a covalent bond is where the two molecules share an electron, silicon dioxide is fairly stable, electron valence wise, so any adding of the salts would automatically have the desired buffering. After all that is all we are doing when we do a salt calibration test. That works much better because of the excellent bonding angle of H2O, but the same principle; and as well as the salt dries out you will not have the proper 75% RH, a supersaturated solution is required in a closed environment to maintain this. Which is why the most important factor is a tight well sealed environment, be it humidor, cooler, etc.


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## numismaniac

evenstill said:


> Thanks numismaniac. I spent quite a while searching the net trying to find out how to form covalent bonds at home but never found any info that I could use. So forming covalent bonds is really as simple as just soaking the silica in the desired salt solution? Would it help if after the "salt soak" I then dried the silica in a food dehydrator or oven? What about performing a couple of salt soak/dry cycles?
> 
> ~ evenstill


Not necessarily that simple, but the best you can try for in this situation, remembering that silicon dioxide is not ready to give up it's O2 electron without some type of reaction/catalyst.


----------



## gahdzila

evenstill said:


> Does Anybody have an answer or any information regarding my question #1 above . . . how to covalently add/bond salts to the silica medium (specifically in a home environment)? The answer is not on the Kitty Litter Set Up thread or anywhere else on this site (or any other forums I have searched). Thanks.
> 
> Thanks,
> ~ evenstill


I admire your curiosity, I really do. That said....and please don't take this the wrong way, because I'm not trying to be a douchebag....what exactly are you trying to accomplish? Or are you just curious and experimental by nature and you just want to see what happens? The reason I ask is because I've used kitty litter and I'm a firm believer that it works fantastically right out of the package with nothing more than distilled water. If you're not getting the results you want with kitty litter, there's almost always another issue to blame that is easily remedied - up your volume of KL, spread it out more to improve surface area, vary the amount of water added (or bake it to dry it out if needed), improve the seal of your humidor, faulty or poorly calibrated hygrometer, etc etc etc. Again, I admire your efforts, and I would love to read about what your solution ends up being and the results of your experiments, but I think your efforts are misguided. Sometimes simple and cheap solutions really do work best!

Regardless, good luck, and keep us posted!!!


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## nikonnut

Evenstill,
I see what you want to do but I think it would be nearly impossible at home assuming that you have to melt the silica gel which occurs at something like 1600 degrees C! Having said that I can share a few book marks that might help you with your project

Controlling Relative Humidity with Saturated Calcium Nitrate Solutions

http://talasonline.com/photos/instructions/silica_gel_info.pdf

Good luck man! Keep us posted :tu Chemistry is cool


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## TonyBrooklyn

evenstill said:


> Does Anybody have an answer or any information regarding my question #1 above . . . how to covalently add/bond salts to the silica medium (specifically in a home environment)? The answer is not on the Kitty Litter Set Up thread or anywhere else on this site (or any other forums I have searched). Thanks.
> 
> Thanks,
> ~ evenstill


There are many references to salt use and Kitty Litter in the beginning of the thread. The success and failures as far as scientific data this is a cigar forum not a chemistry forum. In the end the Kitty Litter works just fine without the salt. You train it to hold the R/H you want, just like training the cat to go in the litter box lol!
If you want science this is from the Kitty Litter thread couple of pages back.

A lot of that is pure marketing speak and is largely just flat wrong and with no basis in science. Silica gel beads come in several varieties with the main three being nano-pore (type A), micro-pore (type B) and wide (or macro) pore (type C). Each type has specific characteristics which lend them to be suited for particular uses.

Type A nano-pore beads are generally best suited to desiccant-only use. Type-A beads have a very narrow range of humidity response regardless of temp (within limits) or humidity (within limits) up to their capacity to absorb moisture. Since the appearance of the various types of silica gel beads is pretty much identical, an easy way to ID type A beads is to spray or soak them with water. Type A nano-pore beads will fracture (break into many pieces/turn to sand) in the presence of liquid water.

Type B and Type C are both suitable for humidity control and the level of humidity (the set point) is based on pre-conditioning and the essentially linear response curve of these bead types. Type B and Type C beads tend to adsorb (not absorb) moisture at high relative humidity levels and desorb as humidity levels fall. This response curve is why Type B and Type C beads are in fact the base products for humidity control in contained museum exhibit and gallery use. (Artsorb.) (See some response curves for the various types of silica gels in the charts at Broadchem* at Qingdao Broadchem Industrial Co., Ltd and WR Grace at W. R. Grace & Co. Enriching Lives, Everywhere.® - Adsorption on Silica Gels.) Beads are not "pre-set" as "pre-set" implies that beads will maintain one specific level of humidity up to the limits of adsorption (saturation) or desorbtion (dry.) Silica gel beads are instead "pre-conditioned" (which is to say they are "set" to a level of RH at a certain temperature by exposing them to the desired RH at the desired temp until they achieve equilibrium.)

Heartfelt beads are just plain silica gel type B or Type C beads. Nothing more. Nothing less. There is nothing magic about them except the price. Buy the cheapest Type B or Type C beads you can find and use those. The silica beads in some brands of cat litter** are suitable. (It isn't cat litter until your cat uses it. It's just silica gel.)

Sorry if I've stepped on any toes here, but this is an area I happen to know something about based on years of work for the archives at the Air War College at Maxwell AFB in Montgomery, AL. I had wondered about Heartfelt and their claims for a while. I have no idea if they believe what they are saying or if they just don't understand the science. Either way, their product is nothing special. Just over priced.

*The Broadchem charts are probably the more instructive. Suffice to say that these charts show that both Type B and Type C beads have the ability to adsorb more moisture at high levels of RH and less moisture at low levels of RH. Think about what that means and you will see that contra the marketing speak claim ("Humidification beads give off water vapor, as well as absorb it, to maintain a specific RH which is ideal for a cigars particular need. This is not the case with silica gel which can only absorb water then must be dried out after it is saturated"), Type B and Type C beads do in fact have the inherent ability to both adsorb and desorb. In fact, even Type A beads can both adsorb and desorb moisture, but the limited response curve of such nano-pore beads is not well suited for RH set-point stabilization so much as for drying.

**Crystal Clear Litter Pearls are generally Type B, Type C or some mixture of the two and are perfectly suited for the purpose of cigar humidor humidity stabilization and control.


----------



## numismaniac

:bitchslap::bitchslap:
Whew,Thanks, Tony for snapping us out of it, it just works. Chemistry is fun, but only to a few of us, and not too much fun on a cigar forum, thank you sir.


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## tym2relax

Great post and find. I'll be replacing my beads very soon


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## numismaniac

numismaniac said:


> :bitchslap::bitchslap:
> Whew,Thanks, Tony for snapping us out of it, it just works. Chemistry is fun, but only to a few of us, and not too much fun on a cigar forum, thank you sir.


And I should know better ; I'm the one dug out that nano crap to begin with, from now on I promise I will refer all this stuff right back to the Kitty litter thread. hehe


----------



## TonyBrooklyn

numismaniac said:


> :bitchslap::bitchslap:
> Whew,Thanks, Tony for snapping us out of it, it just works. Chemistry is fun, but only to a few of us, and not too much fun on a cigar forum, thank you sir.


No thank you sir that was a great post you made in the Kitty Litter thread that's why i shared it here!


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## Shyster

FWIW I got a Galleria 600 humidor in Friday (replacing the 1st one they sent me that was busted up). Took a knee high stocking jammed w/as much KL as possible, put it in a large bowl and drenched it w/DW. It's been in my office here in FL w/the AC running during working hours so the rh should be low although I haven't checked it.

When I came in yesterday morning my calibrated Caliper III was at 79. I haven't wiped down the inside or done anything else with it. I poured the excess water off yesterday and today it's at 76. I plan on getting a couple of wide, short tupperware containers, drilling a bunch of holes in the lids and putting one on the bottom and one on the middle shelf. I'll post an update on how it works out but I'm taking my time. Next step is to pull the KL out and see how the rh holds up over a couple of days.


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## evenstill

gahdzila said:


> I admire your curiosity . . . what exactly are you trying to accomplish? Or are you just curious and experimental by nature and you just want to see what happens? Sometimes simple and cheap solutions really do work best!


Yes, I'm curious and experimental by nature.  Usually my process goes something like this: Read and research and study and then read some more . . . ask lots of people lots of questions until they're sick of me . . . read and research and study some more . . . think and over think and REALLY over think . . . then, when I'm finally reduced to a drooling burned out heap on the floor I remember the law of diminishing returns, smile to myself, and accept the "simple and cheap solutions" that really do work best when it's all said and done! 

Thank you all again for the great info.

~ evenstill


----------



## Shyster

*UPDATE*



Shyster said:


> FWIW I got a Galleria 600 humidor in Friday (replacing the 1st one they sent me that was busted up). Took a knee high stocking jammed w/as much KL as possible, put it in a large bowl and drenched it w/DW. It's been in my office here in FL w/the AC running during working hours so the rh should be low although I haven't checked it.
> 
> When I came in yesterday morning my calibrated Caliper III was at 79. I haven't wiped down the inside or done anything else with it. I poured the excess water off yesterday and today it's at 76. I plan on getting a couple of wide, short tupperware containers, drilling a bunch of holes in the lids and putting one on the bottom and one on the middle shelf. I'll post an update on how it works out but I'm taking my time. Next step is to pull the KL out and see how the rh holds up over a couple of days.


I took the humi home Tuesday and put the big stocking back in. Yesterday morning it was still at 76. I pulled out the KL before I went to work and it was still 76 when I got home. Took 2 tupperware containers about 2" tall, 4" wide and 8" long and drilled as many 1/8th inch holes as I could (note to self--never drill on the kitchen countertop with only a thin piece of wood underneath).

I filled them pretty full of new KL (probably overkill) and sprayed about 50-75% w/DW. Put one on the bottom shelf and one on the middle (the top is a divider drawer). This a.m. I had readings of 68 rh in the bottom and 67 in the top drawer.

I'll check it over the weekend (it has a glass front and top so I don't have to open it to check the hygrometers) and if it holds I'm a happy camper.


----------



## splattttttt

*Re: UPDATE*

I recently ordered silica humidification crystals from a supplier selling from eBay. And they don't look nothing like the HF beads at all, but still work none the less. Must be KL because they never become completely translucent like the HF beads which I've always been very happy with.


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## kenstogie

Wow I didn't know that KL was such an up and coming humidifcation "device" I notice the blue and clear version and the all clerar version....... 

Which one's recommended??

(I live in the NE and the ambiant RH can go from 35% in winter with the heat to 90% in the summer.

Thanks GUYS!


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## shaun341

kenstogie said:


> Wow I didn't know that KL was such an up and coming humidifcation "device" I notice the blue and clear version and the all clerar version.......
> 
> Which one's recommended??
> 
> (I live in the NE and the ambiant RH can go from 35% in winter with the heat to 90% in the summer.
> 
> Thanks GUYS!


from what i understand the blue crystal release RH while the white absorb it, but i read that on the internet and they can't put anything on the internet that isn't true lol


----------



## shaun341

*Re: UPDATE*



splattttttt said:


> I recently ordered silica humidification crystals from a supplier selling from eBay. And they don't look nothing like the HF beads at all, but still work none the less. Must be KL because they never become completely translucent like the HF beads which I've always been very happy with.


It is KL if you got the same stuff i did from ebay. I got 2 pounds for the price i could have gotten 8 pounds from the pet store but oh well now i know they work and where to go to get them(not ebay).


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## kenstogie

*Re: UPDATE*



shaun341 said:


> It is KL if you got the same stuff i did from ebay. I got 2 pounds for the price i could have gotten 8 pounds from the pet store but oh well now i know they work and where to go to get them(not ebay).


 Would that be from dr***f**sh by any chance. I got the same ones.


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## shaun341

no i got mine from someone named flavacig*rsinc.


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## lsnadon

Kenny Powers said:


> ....One more thing. He said the white crystals are designed to absorb and release moisture and the blue crystals were designed to only release moisture.
> 
> PS. These crystals are not scented and are made from 100% Silica....


Now.... not looking for an argument, not by any stretch. I also use Exquisicat because they do keep _my_ humidor at a level I like., These last two comments I whole-heartedly disagree with.

1) take out a good sampling of those blue beads and put them in a Brandy snifter, add some water (soak 'em right down). Give them 15 minutes or so, take a whiff - does that smell "unscented" to you? I spent about two hours one afternoon picking out every single blue bead in the pound of Exquisicat I use.

2) think about it - why would a cat litter company waste time creating a bead that releases moisture? Is this in case your house does not have that perfect ammonia smell that you desire. I call "bunk" on the (kitty litter) beads being designed to release moisture. I believe they just happen to maintain a humidity equilibrium, which happens to be very near 65% when kept inside a pretty tightly sealed box.


----------



## TonyBrooklyn

lsnadon said:


> Now.... not looking for an argument, not by any stretch. I also use Exquisicat because they do keep _my_ humidor at a level I like., These last two comments I whole-heartedly disagree with.
> 
> 1) take out a good sampling of those blue beads and put them in a Brandy snifter, add some water (soak 'em right down). Give them 15 minutes or so, take a whiff - does that smell "unscented" to you? I spent about two hours one afternoon picking out every single blue bead in the pound of Exquisicat I use.
> 
> 2) think about it - why would a cat litter company waste time creating a bead that releases moisture? Is this in case your house does not have that perfect ammonia smell that you desire. I call "bunk" on the (kitty litter) beads being designed to release moisture. I believe they just happen to maintain a humidity equilibrium, which happens to be very near 65% when kept inside a pretty tightly sealed box.


Actually i bake mine to attain an R/H of 55% something i could never accomplish with any other hydrating media!


----------



## splattttttt

TonyBrooklyn said:


> Actually i bake mine to attain an R/H of 55% something i could never accomplish with any other hydrating media!


Hey there brother from different mothers, what is that temp you use to bake them at please?


----------



## TonyBrooklyn

splattttttt said:


> Hey there brother from different mothers, what is that temp you use to bake them at please?


Hey Jack you finally dug out we got a foot upstate i heard you guys got like a foot and a half glad to see your ok.
I bake slow and low 200 degrees for 2 1/2-3hours single layer like when you make popcorn in a flat cookie sheet or any suitable pan.
I use ultra pearls tough not esquisicat but i am sure the times are the same for any Silica Gel based litter or beads.
Silica is Silica peace my brother!


----------



## splattttttt

Thanks for the info Tony. I asked because the three, maybe plus pounds I keep in my wineadore have have been steadely rising in rh persentage. So baking them is a nice option to help with that,
It was also mentionedthat the blue colored crystals are designed to specificaly absob odors. I had heard that before and am in complete agreence with this when it was mentioned they be removed.


----------



## TonyBrooklyn

splattttttt said:


> Thanks for the info Tony. I asked because the three, maybe plus pounds I keep in my wineadore have have been steadely rising in rh persentage. So baking them is a nice option to help with that,
> It was also mentionedthat the blue colored crystals are designed to specificaly absob odors. I had heard that before and am in complete agreence with this when it was mentioned they be removed.


You can pick them out if you like if i pick them out of the Ultra Pearls they look just like beads. As they are perfectly round, The blue ones contain a chemical that is harmless. Its purpose is to change color from blue to a purple/ pink color to let you know the Silica is over-hydrated and needs to be changed. As far as i know that is their only purpose, originally intended for use in a litter box. This feature is very valuable to those who can't tell by the smell its time to change the litter i guess.


----------



## CarnivorousPelican

TonyBrooklyn said:


> You can pick them out if you like if i pick them out of the Ultra Pearls they look just like beads. As they are perfectly round, The blue ones contain a chemical that is harmless. Its purpose is to change color from blue to a purple/ pink color to let you know the Silica is over-hydrated and needs to be changed. As far as i know that is their only purpose, originally intended for use in a litter box. This feature is very valuable to those who can't tell by the smell its time to change the litter i guess.


I wouldn't let cobalt chloride touch your sticks and I definitely wouldn't smoke or consume it... Smoking the blue crystals is a big no no lol. On a serious note that is what bothers me about some of this stuff because you got to be creating dust from this stuff when you bake it..

http://www.desiccants.net/msds/CobaltChloride.pdf

Not trying to scare anyone etc but I believe you need to be aware of the chemical properties of these desiccant. For example there is FDA desiccant and industrial.. Now when beads start dusting are the salts being used that are going onto the sticks ( very small amount probably ) are those salts more dangerous than the cigars  Stuff like that. Am sure it isn't a big deal etc, but we are sticking these sticks into our mouths and some inhaling them into our lungs I always have questions like that about stuff.. Maybe it is just me dunno, but I stand by the comments about the Cobalt Chloride.


----------



## lsnadon

CarnivorousPelican said:


> I wouldn't let cobalt chloride touch your sticks and I definitely wouldn't smoke or consume it... Smoking the blue crystals is a big no no lol. On a serious note that is what bothers me about some of this stuff because you got to be creating dust from this stuff when you bake it etc..


Might be a good time to just go with Heartfelt.....


----------



## CarnivorousPelican

lsnadon said:


> Might be a good time to just go with Heartfelt.....


You don't know what salts they are using on the heartfelt beads either.. We just know it isn't Cobalt Chloride..  I would be very surprised if the salts used were carcinogenic since it should be of food quality in my mind.. If you wouldn't store it with a steak for example then I don't really believe it should be used with a cigar.. Just my two cents.. Like I said before I am not trying to scare anyone etc.. I am using HF beads and I don't bake them or put water directly on them just the simple fact that extreme moisture and temp changes will crack them and create dust / break them down and wash the salts off that regulate the humidity...This is one reason I been thinking about just using the Large humidor boveda packs for my wineador, buy them wholesale in a pack of 100 or something and rotate them from a coolador that is at 70% to keep them charge..


----------



## TonyBrooklyn

CarnivorousPelican said:


> I wouldn't let cobalt chloride touch your sticks and I definitely wouldn't smoke or consume it... Smoking the blue crystals is a big no no lol. On a serious note that is what bothers me about some of this stuff because you got to be creating dust from this stuff when you bake it..
> 
> http://www.desiccants.net/msds/CobaltChloride.pdf
> 
> Not trying to scare anyone etc but I believe you need to be aware of the chemical properties of these desiccant. For example there is FDA desiccant and industrial.. Now when beads start dusting are the salts being used that are going onto the sticks ( very small amount probably ) are those salts more dangerous than the cigars  Stuff like that. Am sure it isn't a big deal etc, but we are sticking these sticks into our mouths and some inhaling them into our lungs I always have questions like that about stuff.. Maybe it is just me dunno, but I stand by the comments about the Cobalt Chloride.


Yeah all my sticks must be trash, time to destroy them,one at a time by incineration:bounce:


----------



## CarnivorousPelican

TonyBrooklyn said:


> Yeah all my sticks must be trash, time to destroy them,one at a time by incineration:bounce:


Nah man.. I am just saying.. that cobalt chloride isn't harmless and there is a reason they have FDA desiccant for food and desiccant used for industrial... The prices on most of this desiccant geared towards cigars is outrageously priced unless you can get the boveda packs at whole sale which to me isn't so bad... I would like to hear from a Chemist the amounts we are talking about is very miniscule if you look at the the PDF they did what

oral rat L050: 766 mg/kg (hydrated crystal)

Which is a ton... for a rat  I was just posting what I already knew about Cobalt Chloride which none of this desiccant should be touching your sticks anyways.. so maybe it is moot...

766 mg/kg  so if you weigh 200 lb / 90.7185 kg you are talking about 69 grams of the stuff. Which means you are doing 18x eightballs of Cobalt Chloride... Don't want to be a lab rat


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## lsnadon

self deleted....


----------



## TonyBrooklyn

CarnivorousPelican said:


> Nah man.. I am just saying.. that cobalt chloride isn't harmless and there is a reason they have FDA desiccant for food and desiccant used for industrial... The prices on most of this desiccant geared towards cigars is outrageously priced unless you can get the boveda packs at whole sale which to me isn't so bad... I would like to hear from a Chemist the amounts we are talking about is very miniscule if you look at the the PDF they did what
> 
> oral rat L050: 766 mg/kg (hydrated crystal)
> 
> Which is a ton... for a rat  I was just posting what I already knew about Cobalt Chloride which none of this desiccant should be touching your sticks anyways.. so maybe it is moot... Call me a concerned citizen


I know bro i was just making light of the conversation. These discussions go south quickly some times ,i feel people should use what they like. To be honest i am rather found of Boveda packs i have so many stock piled a vendor i use always sends one with each box of cigars. They rehydrate easy in a plastic bag with some water pillows in fact i use them all winter long in my 13 humidors. But in the summer the R/H in the North East is murder so Kitty Litter is the only thing i have found that allows me to store my cigars in the 55%-60% range that my cigars smoke best at. I personally don't think any inhalation of even miniscule amounts of Silica is good for the lungs. Thanks for the info!


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## nola.bell

I just converted to exquisicat kitty litter and I've been holding steady at 65% for about a week!!! Loving it, thank yall for leading the way!!


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## KcJason1

nola.bell said:


> I just converted to exquisicat kitty litter and I've been holding steady at 65% for about a week!!! Loving it, thank yall for leading the way!!


Great thing is you can train it to be whatever RH you want.... Mine is trained to 60rh!

If you want to raise the RH.. Only squirt 1 or two times depending on how much your spritzer sprays.. Wait a couple days.. If not satisfactory squirt 1-2 times wait a couple days and repeat until desired results are achieved...


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## TJB

I started using exquisicat in my tupperdor and it holds 64% steady. I put HF beads in my humidor and it is also at 64%. I spent 40 dollars for like 4ozs of HF and 13 bucks for 8lbs of KL. I have to use A LOT more kl in my tupperdor but it also isn't lined with Spanish cedar like my humi. I bet it would be idiot proof with a wineador with cedar drawers. Thank you for starting this thread.


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## splattttttt

TJB said:


> I started using exquisicat in my tupperdor and it holds 64% steady. I put HF beads in my humidor and it is also at 64%. I spent 40 dollars for like 4ozs of HF and 13 bucks for 8lbs of KL. I have to use A LOT more kl in my tupperdor but it also isn't lined with Spanish cedar like my humi. I bet it would be idiot proof with a wineador with cedar drawers. Thank you for starting this thread.


By it self; cedar does an excellent job of maintaining your container's RH. Assuming the wood was properly seasoned. Such is the case with my wineador, where it's just tobacco and properly seasoned spanish cedar. RH stay at a constant 65% and 65*f as long as I DON'T turn the unit on. Which is fine by me.


----------



## Mante

*Re: UPDATE*



> I bet it would be idiot proof with a wineador with cedar drawers


To further Jack's point, I'm sure most any two way medium would be fool proof given the right set up. I don't use drawers, I use cedar shelves & a commercially sold bead product. Guess what? Fool proof. I say "fool" as I am reticent to consider myself an "idiot" even though I admit to being an "asshat". LMAO. :r


----------



## TonyBrooklyn

KcJason1 said:


> Great thing is you can train it to be whatever RH you want.... Mine is trained to 60rh!
> 
> If you want to raise the RH.. Only squirt 1 or two times depending on how much your spritzer sprays.. Wait a couple days.. If not satisfactory squirt 1-2 times wait a couple days and repeat until desired results are achieved...


Agreed Jason mine is trained at 55-57% for long term aging you really can't beat it IMHO.


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## nola.bell

TonyBrooklyn said:


> Agreed Jason mine is trained at 55-57% for long term aging you really can't beat it IMHO.


Yall are training the KL using the oven/microwave method? Tony props to you, wanted to thank you on your original KL fourm post but it is closed


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## TonyBrooklyn

nola.bell said:


> Yall are training the KL using the oven/microwave method? Tony props to you, wanted to thank you on your original KL fourm post but it is closed


Your welcome bro!
Yes bake it down to the R/H you desire its really that simple. I actually got the idea from a beads user years back who stared drying his beads with a hairdrier. Then the slow bake in the oven method. 2 hours at around 200 degrees.


----------



## nola.bell

TonyBrooklyn said:


> Your welcome bro!
> Yes bake it down to the R/H you desire its really that simple. I actually got the idea from a beads user years back who stared drying his beads with a hairdrier. Then the slow bake in the oven method. 2 hours at around 200 degrees.


Nicely done!!! My preference right now is 65%, so the KL has me sitting pretty, but it's always good to know that it can be trained to go lower!!!


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## TJB

splattttttt said:


> By it self; cedar does an excellent job of maintaining your container's RH. Assuming the wood was properly seasoned. Such is the case with my wineador, where it's just tobacco and properly seasoned spanish cedar. RH stay at a constant 65% and 65*f as long as I DON'T turn the unit on. Which is fine by me.


Awesome, thank you for the info.


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## KcJason1

nola.bell said:


> Yall are training the KL using the oven/microwave method? Tony props to you, wanted to thank you on your original KL fourm post but it is closed


I didn't need to bake mine... It came out of the box @ 55rh...

Mine sits at 60-61 RH... I also have 6-8 62rh bovedas in the same cooler... They are as fresh as the day I got them..
That cooler sits rock solid 24/7!!!


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## nola.bell

AWESOME!! Yeah, I'm loving the litter


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## SunyJim

Hi everybody! (first post), been reading the posts with interest. Read the other one about litter setup etc. already.

I've been running my small humidor 75ct for 20 years with Wetfloral foam and 50/50 PG solution. (PG is available cheap $10/pint at the pharmacist, floral foam is $6 at the craft store) 
My humidor is well seasoned, seals really well and is running at 70% (caliber III). The humidity here is low in winter 20% and high in summer 70% (tobacco growing region) 
Replacing the wet floral foam inside the metal humidification box (6x2.5inchesx1 inch deep), and soaking with 50/50 until it won't hold any more liquid will within 20 minutes bring the humidity to 70% and keep it there for 3-4 months. Then I just refill with distilled water until the humidity starts to raise above 70% when refilled, at that point either new floral foam (every 2 years or so) or resoak with 50/50. I don't find this method expensive or difficult. The only part that is remotely difficult to explain to a newbie with this system is when to add the PG again, or when to switch the floral foam. Otherwise it's a no brainer it just goes to 70% automatically.

I've been researching with interest the humidification beads after a talk with a younger smoker who had never used the credo style floral foam units. (he didn't know what kind of beads he was using)
Found the website for heartfelt beads, and talk about exquisicat litter and litter pearls. 

I bought some Walmart brand unscented with blue flecks silica kitty litter and have been experimenting. I picked out the blue, Soaked 100% of the crystals and it goes to 80% experimenting with my small 30 count plastic tube shaped upright empty humidor (I removed the cedar disk from the bottom) I tried some crystals completely soaked only with 50/50PG humidity goes to 78%. I made a stocking of crystals the size of a smallish potato and spritzed it 2 squirts of distilled. it's now holding 71%. But my concern is that it's holding so much less water than the floral foam is able to hold, so I would think it would require tending far more often. 
I'm thinking maybe I would try exquisicat as well see if maybe the humidity when soaked completely would be lower for some reason than the walmart brand I bought. Anybody else try that experiment 100% soaked equisicat in a sealed plastic container, what's the humidity go to?

If I got 70% heartfelt beads, for argument sake the larger metal container which is about the size of my floral foam unit (6x2.5x1) and soaked them 70% as per instructions, and then left them in a sealed humidor without opening it, how long would it last before I needed to tend to them again? Is it longer than the floral foam and PG mix? What if I soak more than 70% of the beads, it's not like I have humidy higher than what I'm looking for, and I have a good seal on the humidor, would it last longer or does the humidy go higher than 70%?


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## Gdaddy

I did similar experiment with kitty litter and looking back it was a waste of money and I wished I had done it right the first time.

In defense of KL I do believe that it works if you can put a good amount of it in your humi. If you have the space to store the amount needed. The variations in RH levels eventually got the best of me and I switched to HCM beads and it worked WAY better than KL in a much smaller amount. This gave me more room for cigars.

The KL required constant attention to maintain 65% whereas the HCM beads don't require anything. I've never used HF beads but I would imagine they would work well also.


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## TJB

Gdaddy said:


> I did similar experiment with kitty litter and looking back it was a waste of money and I wished I had done it right the first time.
> 
> In defense of KL I do believe that it works if you can put a good amount of it in your humi. If you have the space to store the amount needed. The variations in RH levels eventually got the best of me and I switched to HCM beads and it worked WAY better than KL in a much smaller amount. This gave me more room for cigars.
> 
> The KL required constant attention to maintain 65% whereas the HCM beads don't require anything. I've never used HF beads but I would imagine they would work well also.


Does one have to add water to the HCM beads like the HF?


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## Gdaddy

TJB said:


> Does one have to add water to the HCM beads like the HF?


No water ever gets sprayed on them. It would ruin them.

To increase RH add a moist natural sponge or a damp paper towel inside the humidor. The beads will readily absorb moisture from the air and slowly raise the RH.
To decrease the RH...take beads and place them in a low RH environment. The refrigerator is recommended. The freezer works even faster but must not stay more than 15 minutes. You don't want them to freeze.

I have had to do neither as the beads have been dead on 63% since I got them.


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## TJB

Gdaddy said:


> No water ever gets sprayed on them. It would ruin them.
> 
> To increase RH add a moist natural sponge or a damp paper towel inside the humidor. The beads will readily absorb moisture from the air and slowly raise the RH.
> To decrease the RH...take beads and place them in a low RH environment. The refrigerator is recommended. The freezer works even faster but must not stay more than 15 minutes. You don't want them to freeze.
> 
> I have had to do neither as the beads have been dead on 63% since I got them.


Thank you for the info. just kne last question. I see you live in Fl so this may not be accurate for me but how long can they go in your winter without a charge?


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## Gdaddy

TJB said:


> Thank you for the info. just kne last question. I see you live in Fl so this may not be accurate for me but how long can they go in your winter without a charge?


You're welcome.

Our winter is not much of a winter to speak of. The temp fluctuations we have had didn't require any adjustments at all. I haven't touch them or had to re-train them. However, having read the testing done from Scott Shalala this type of bead holds far more water than any other product he tested. The bead is also able to add or remove moisture at a very high speed so you have quick recovery times after opening the humidor. HCM beads react and recover over 800% faster and hold over 500% more water per volume.

I live in Southern Florida but my house is air conditioned with an RH of around 55% @ 74 degrees. Oddly my RH would always creep up higher when using KL. When it would get up to 68% I would bake the moisture out and it would drop back down to 64% and then slowly within the week be back up to 68% again. Was a never ending weekly process and I got tired of it. So, I researched a good bit and decided on the HCM as a permanent fix. ( I understand the HF turn yellow and need replacing in time whereas the HCM does not)

FYI... I just checked the site and they are having a 10% off sale right now.


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## supahrob

Yeah, I am very curious about the kitty litter option, but I am also looking forward to trying a boveda packet (just gotta find someone in Riverside who sells em). 

Take care,
Rob


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## Ky70

Gdaddy said:


> The KL required constant attention to maintain 65% whereas the HCM beads don't require anything. I've never used HF beads but I would imagine they would work well also.


I've been running KL in my humi and coolidor for going on 2-3 months and have not had to adjust the humidity on either since I set them up at around 65-66% humidity. Maintenance free and I love it. I now just open the humi/coolidor to grab cigars and no longer open solely to check the humidity. I am believer.


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## Gdaddy

I'm glad it works for you. Maybe my location had something to do with the humidity creeping up all the time. In a head to head comparison in my wineador the HCM beads are far superior.


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## Ky70

Ky70 said:


> I've been running KL in my humi and coolidor for going on 2-3 months and have not had to adjust the humidity on either since I set them up at around 65-66% humidity. Maintenance free and I love it. I now just open the humi/coolidor to grab cigars and no longer open solely to check the humidity. I am believer.





Gdaddy said:


> I'm glad it works for you. Maybe my location had something to do with the humidity creeping up all the time. In a head to head comparison in my wineador the HCM beads are far superior.


The best part is I paid less than $5 for a 4lb bag (no dust/silica gel litter) from wallyworld and have used maybe a pound of the bag and that includes sharing some with a friend a ziplock


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## GreyBushHunter

I have a bottle of the pg stuff... can I water the litter with that stuff or does it have to be the distilled water? And someone recommended the "Mimi" brand crystals would these work the same? For ingredients on the litter am I looking for silica sand and water only?


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## GreyBushHunter

Lol just noticed the Mimi post under me sorry for not paying attention


----------



## McFortner

Ky70 said:


> The best part is I paid less than $5 for a 4lb bag (no dust/silica gel litter) from wallyworld and have used maybe a pound of the bag and that includes sharing some with a friend a ziplock


I've been looking at that at Wally World for a while and I wasn't 100% sure it would be OK. I think I'll get some tomorrow.


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## Ky70

McFortner said:


> I've been looking at that at Wally World for a while and I wasn't 100% sure it would be OK. I think I'll get some tomorrow.


I almost at the 1 year mark and couldn't be happier with KL. good luck to you.


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## GreyBushHunter

I think I'm gunna do the kl... It just weird because when I think of kitty litter I generally don't think of cigars... But I'm convinced by the amount of people on here that use it. I do have a question tho, at cheaphumidors the beads said right on the bag "NO MOLD" I would like to think that means "helps prevent mold" right? So my question is this: Does the KL work in the same way; does it help prevent mold?

I only ask because I live in Nevada and it get mighty hot round my house during the summer months. It also helps that I don't have air conditioning... So what does that mean you ask?

You guessed it!!! WINEADOR!!!! 

So I took the plunge yesterday I got an Avanti 16 bottle for 100 shipped and I got some caliber IIIs on the way too... I would just like all the "Protection" I can get for my gars... So anything like that catches my eye real quick if you know what I mean.


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## Gdaddy

Where did you order the Avanti 16 from for $100 shipped? Was it new?


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## GreyBushHunter

Yes it is new or at least it better be new, it didnt say its a referb. I ordered it from amazon it ships from Essex technology group, it costs a total of 110.19 + free shipping (sorry I like to round off the cost). Essex has a 95% rating on amazon, last time I checked they had 8 left... 

I can't post links yet (darn) so just type "avanti 16 bottle wine cooler" into amazon and it should be one of the first ones... Their is another one for 150 something so just look around a bit

Just beware I looked at the 2 wineador sites and one said that avanti units have less shelf slots than most other brands, in other words: wasted space... (I don't think Forrest's site said it)

Most likely I will email Forrest once I get it (should be here early next week) and see what my options are...


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## Gerace716

I'm gonna give this a try. Way more affordable and all is gotta do is run to the pet store. Awesome.


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## iatrestman

Ummm shwat the fizz? I added about half pound of KL to my 38 quart coolidor and had BAD results. The Coolidor had been maintaining 68-70 perfectly using humi-care black ice (cheap on cbid) and a few 72 Boveda packets to help distribute humidity. I decided to add the KL for added stability and faster return to Eq after opening lid. Well I misted the KL, put it in some pantyhose and tucked it oh-so-nicely into a corner that looked like it was made to fit. This morning my rh was 80! I immediately took out the KL and fanned out the cooler. Thankfully it was just overnight because I hate to think what could happen at 80 over a longer period of time.
What happened?? Did I overwet the KL? I know it's supposed to be around 68% dry, but i wanted it to be around 70-72 (for aging). Thanks guys, any insight is appreciated.


----------



## B-daddy

iatrestman said:


> Ummm shwat the fizz? I added about half pound of KL to my 38 quart coolidor and had BAD results. The Coolidor had been maintaining 68-70 perfectly using humi-care black ice (cheap on cbid) and a few 72 Boveda packets to help distribute humidity. I decided to add the KL for added stability and faster return to Eq after opening lid. Well I misted the KL, put it in some pantyhose and tucked it oh-so-nicely into a corner that looked like it was made to fit. This morning my rh was 80! I immediately took out the KL and fanned out the cooler. Thankfully it was just overnight because I hate to think what could happen at 80 over a longer period of time.
> What happened?? Did I overwet the KL? I know it's supposed to be around 68% dry, but i wanted it to be around 70-72 (for aging). Thanks guys, any insight is appreciated.


I'd guess you wet it too much. I've had a couple instances of the rh "spiking" after I mist it kinda heVy but even then it's never gotten up above 68. 80? I didn't even think I could get mine that high. Recommend you take out half and replace it with dry. Or just dry out half of it in the oven.

That said, it you want your rh to hold above 70, I don't know if KL is your bag. Like I said, even when mine spikes it doesn't get to 70.


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## Dual-500

iatrestman said:


> Ummm shwat the fizz? I added about half pound of KL to my 38 quart coolidor and had BAD results. The Coolidor had been maintaining 68-70 perfectly using humi-care black ice (cheap on cbid) and a few 72 Boveda packets to help distribute humidity. I decided to add the KL for added stability and faster return to Eq after opening lid. Well I misted the KL, put it in some pantyhose and tucked it oh-so-nicely into a corner that looked like it was made to fit. This morning my rh was 80! I immediately took out the KL and fanned out the cooler. Thankfully it was just overnight because I hate to think what could happen at 80 over a longer period of time.
> What happened?? Did I overwet the KL? I know it's supposed to be around 68% dry, but i wanted it to be around 70-72 (for aging). Thanks guys, any insight is appreciated.


Yep, too much moisture added. I use a custom wineador and the RH was dropping over the past few weeks and it got time to add some moisture. I took out the bread loaf pans of KL and put into a large stainless steel bowl and misted it with 3 or 4 ounces of distilled water. Poured the moistened KL back into the two bread loaf pans and back in the bottom of the wineador. Then I decided to drop the temperature for the winter from 69 F down to 67 F which is in between the highest and lowest setpoints of the HVAC heating schedule. In the week days when at work, the house drops to 62 F on a cold day and at 6:30 PM, about the time I get home from work it warms up to 72 F, then 68 F at 11 PM for sleeping.

Anyway, the added moisture coupled with the 2 F degree baseline temperature drop in the wineador raised the RH to 74%, so I pulled on of the bread loaf pans (1/2 of the KL) out and set it on top of then winador to dry out and will monitor the RH inside to be sure it drops back down to ~67%. Temperature changes always seems to affect the RH one way or another.

Just dry the KL out a bit, and put it back in and see where it is - in other words, make the necessary adjustments. I've been using KL in winadors for just over 2 years and it's pretty simple maintenance - once you get used to it.


----------



## Dagesh

iatrestman said:


> Ummm shwat the fizz? I added about half pound of KL to my 38 quart coolidor and had BAD results. The Coolidor had been maintaining 68-70 perfectly using humi-care black ice (cheap on cbid) and a few 72 Boveda packets to help distribute humidity. I decided to add the KL for added stability and faster return to Eq after opening lid. Well I misted the KL, put it in some pantyhose and tucked it oh-so-nicely into a corner that looked like it was made to fit. This morning my rh was 80! I immediately took out the KL and fanned out the cooler. Thankfully it was just overnight because I hate to think what could happen at 80 over a longer period of time.
> What happened?? Did I overwet the KL? I know it's supposed to be around 68% dry, but i wanted it to be around 70-72 (for aging). Thanks guys, any insight is appreciated.


I added very little water and slowly worked my way up until it hit the place I was happy. It takes time but at least I know what works for my stuff. I picked up a bag of the mimi stuff from wal mart. Works like a charm. I cut out the sponge from my puck that came with the humidor and replaced it with KL then replaced the screen for kicks. Looks official-ish.


----------



## McFortner

Dagesh said:


> I cut out the sponge from my puck that came with the humidor and replaced it with KL then replaced the screen for kicks. Looks official-ish.


That's what I'm going to do when I can find some more at Wally World. I now have the Tupperdor-O-Death (the original that my aged cigars go in) and it's twin the Tupperdor-O-Death II (for aging new purchases) that have some humidifiers I got off of evilBay that I'm going to replace the wet foam inside with Mimi. One of my humidors has a soapstone-type humidifier that I have to figure out a bag to put in it's place and I'll be good.


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## AuTechCoM

I have traveled to all endsof my town to find kitty litter and the smallest unsented bag I could find was 30lbs. :frusty: do you guys have any suggestions on where I can look


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## Dagesh

AuTechCoM said:


> I have traveled to all endsof my town to find kitty litter and the smallest unsented bag I could find was 30lbs. :frusty: do you guys have any suggestions on where I can look


Do you have a Wal Mart? I got a big bag but it was under 5 bucks. I'll ship some to you if there's need for it. I don't foresee using up what I have any time soon.

If nothing else you might even have wally world ship you a bag. It's 9.14 with shipping for a 4 lb bag.


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## AuTechCoM

Dagesh said:


> Do you have a Wal Mart? I got a big bag but it was under 5 bucks. I'll ship some to you if there's need for it. I don't foresee using up what I have any time soon.
> 
> If nothing else you might even have wally world ship you a bag. It's 9.14 with shipping for a 4 lb bag.


We have 4 walmarts here Its funny right after I posted this I decided I would just order some online and there is some 
At the brand new Walmart 2 towns over where I work. So I will just pick some up on my way home from work.


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## iatrestman

Dagesh said:


> Do you have a Wal Mart? I got a big bag but it was under 5 bucks. I'll ship some to you if there's need for it. I don't foresee using up what I have any time soon.
> 
> If nothing else you might even have wally world ship you a bag. It's 9.14 with shipping for a 4 lb bag.


+1.... MiMi brand at Wal-Mart is alright.... I'm not thrilled with it as there is some grit that gets through even 2 layers of pantyhose..... But I suppose it won't hurt my sticks in any way, and I don't know how much better anything else is as I've heard even HF beads have some "dust".


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## Dagesh

iatrestman said:


> MiMi brand at Wal-Mart is alright


Good point Ian that I forgot to mention, Mimi KL was the brand and it wasn't even standing up like all the others. It was like walmart was ashamed of it. The bag is cheap that it comes in. I recommend not using the method they offer to open it. Use scissors. I almost lost a bunch on the floor.


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## Atlas

longburn said:


> That is incredible,I currently use CI's cigar juice and the 2oz jars of CI crystals and so far they have been doing a great job at keeping my 300ct display humi at 68% but this would be cheaper.
> 
> I just wonder.....we have three cats and that makes things a little worrisome:tease:


yeah watch out for any ammonia notes LOL


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## sanity

Very good info. for a noob.


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## TonyBrooklyn

KITTY LITTER ROCKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Dual-500

TonyBrooklyn said:


> KITTY LITTER ROCKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


I was thinking the same thing as I saw the email notice of another post on this thread. I pulled the bread loaf pans out of my Wineador a couple of days ago - been a couple of months since having to do any maintenance on it. A day or so after adding some moisture I looked at one of the internal hygrometers and it had moved back up to 67% from 65%.


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## Almi

Good Read!!

Just getting started with a Coolidor and this seems like a great method for a low cost. More money for sticks :evil:


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## trackeryak

I use the Mimi kitter litter brand from Walmart and it works great. Tough to beat something that works great and only costs a hair over 4 bucks for a 4 lb bag.


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## Almi

trackeryak said:


> I use the Mimi kitter litter brand from Walmart and it works great. Tough to beat something that works great and only costs a hair over 4 bucks for a 4 lb bag.


Just picked up a bag. I looked first at Petco and their brand was $17.00 for a 12 pound or so bag. Way over kill for what I wanted so I passed and I am glad I kept looking.


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## Rickr1717

Well, I know what I'm picking up on my next trip to Walmart.


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## Rickr1717

I've been smoking cigars for 15 years and never heard about using kitty litter until joining this site. Last week I picked up a bag of Mimi from Walmart for $4. I'll be damned, that stuff works great! I'm now a convert.


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## Sigaar

I haven't tried the Mimi crystals from WalMart, but have been very happy with Exquisicat...stuff works great in my wineador.


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## GreenPuffer

Can someone help me figure out how much to use for a small humidor? My future Nephew In Law, if there is such a thing, uses them but he is a mid wedding plans and I need to replace the drying bovedas I am currently using. 

He puts the crystals in panty hose and immerse these in distilled water. How much should I use? He suggested using Crystal Pearls. I got 3.5 pounds for $12.99 at Chewy.com.


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## Kidvegas

For a small humidor I’d advise buying a few more bovedas and recharging the ones that have dried out. Kitty litter is awesome as I’ve used it for quite awhile but, it’s used in a large cooler and my wineador. IMO not the best media for a small humidor. For your situation IMO Bovedas are your best bet.

If you insist on the KL grab yourself a small tray about an inch deep and load it with the litter. Throw the tray in a tupper with a hygrometer for 8 hrs for a baseline humidity. You’ll probably be around 58 to 60 rh. At this point give the litter a couple sprays and close it back in the tupper. Let sit another 8 hrs and check again. Whatever it’s risen in rh make a mental note.....whatever it’s risen equals the amount of dw sprays you’ve added. Once you reach your rh preference throw the tray into the humi and your done. Only adding more dw when your humidity drops below your #’s. 

Gotta run......the girlfriends giving me the stink eye....haha! Hope this helps anymore questions be sure to ask!




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Cigary

GreenPuffer said:


> Can someone help me figure out how much to use for a small humidor? My future Nephew In Law, if there is such a thing, uses them but he is a mid wedding plans and I need to replace the drying bovedas I am currently using.
> 
> He puts the crystals in panty hose and immerse these in distilled water. How much should I use? He suggested using Crystal Pearls. I got 3.5 pounds for $12.99 at Chewy.com.


#1......Use unscented kitty litter..ExquisiCat is a great product. 
#2......A good rule of thumb is to use 2 ounces per 25 cigars
#3.....DON'T immerse KL in distilled water....at best spritz DW over the KL in a
a container that is shallow. KL is a one way media so if you immerse
KL in DW your RH is going to go through the roof.


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## Fusion

GreenPuffer said:


> Can someone help me figure out how much to use for a small humidor? My future Nephew In Law, if there is such a thing, uses them but he is a mid wedding plans and I need to replace the drying bovedas I am currently using.
> 
> He puts the crystals in panty hose and immerse these in distilled water. How much should I use? He suggested using Crystal Pearls. I got 3.5 pounds for $12.99 at Chewy.com.


Lots of threads on Reviving dry Bovidas here, but just put them in a bowl of distilled water and leave them a few days, right back to normal again, they come out kind of wet so just wrap in paper towel for 30 mins and your good to go.


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## Kidvegas

Cigary said:


> #1......Use unscented kitty litter..ExquisiCat is a great product.
> 
> #2......A good rule of thumb is to use 2 ounces per 25 cigars
> 
> #3.....DON'T immerse KL in distilled water....at best spritz DW over the KL in a
> 
> a container that is shallow. KL is a one way media so if you immerse
> 
> KL in DW your RH is going to go through the roof.


Our very own @Cigary knows his stuff brother! I've followed his KL directions to the T and have no complaints!......rest assured your in good hands!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## scott1256ca

Fusion said:


> Lots of threads on Reviving dry Bovidas here, but just put them in a bowl of distilled water and leave them a few days, right back to normal again, they come out kind of wet so just wrap in paper towel for 30 mins and your good to go.


I've never immersed in water. A friend had one that was pretty dried out and it took a few weeks to rehydrate by just putting it over top of water in a container, but not immersing. If they are just a little discharged they can be recharged in a few days by putting over top of water. But you either have to be willing to let the RH in your humidor drop for those few days, or you have to have spare bovedas or some other way of managing RH in the humi. A few water pillows is what I use to supplement a single boveda while my other bovedas rehydrate. That doesn't give highly stable RH, but for a few days, it doesn't matter to me if the RH is off by a few percent. KL is great in larger containers, but I think bovedas are the way to go in wooden humidors or small tupperdors. For me, KL takes up too much space for a 50 count humidor.


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