# 60 Rh @ 60* vs 60Rh @ 70*



## asmartbull (Aug 16, 2009)

Unscientific experiment

Every Winter folks start talking about temp/rh and what effect temp has
on moisture content.
Toward the end of December I took 4 cigars. 2 Upmann Corona Major and 
2 VR Unicos. and stored one of each at 60rh/60* and the others at 60rh.70 degrees. This am I smoked the Upmann that was stored at 70* and I am finishing up the 60* as I type. Before I go any further I need to say, I usually don't worry about temp as long as it is between 65* and 70*.
With 14 weeks+/-, I can tell you there is a subtle difference......

1. The 60* cigar wrapper was slightly drier. It didn't crack, but you could feel the difference.
2. The 60* burnt a little faster , but was perfect and the draw was a little looser.
3..Not a big difference in flavor, but it did feel firmer in my mouth.

4. The 70* cigar is more what I am used to. A little spongier than the 60*.
The burn was not as perfect.
5. The wrapper was more pliable. You could tell this when removing the band

My take-away. I like the feel, draw and pliability of the 70*/60rh
I am not sure how long term storage at 60/60 would be. I suspect the filler would be drier.
It also proves that I sometimes have to much time on my hands and to much alcohol in my system.


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## bpegler (Mar 30, 2006)

I love this stuff.

We really are cigar geeks.


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## OdessaDan (Nov 29, 2009)

Well done, It is always fun to conduct your own experiments. I personally like my cigars at 70rh. I just got a wine cooler and am trying my cigars at 70rh/65* , hoping with the KL its more like 65*/65rh.

Its amazing what a little alcohol will do.

Dan


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## TonyBrooklyn (Jan 28, 2010)

I agree with your findings Bullman. Since i have switched to humidors that are stored in the living space, rather than coolers stored in my basement, I to notice that the R/H between 60-63 and storing at room temperature. Procures a better feel and oilier wrapper over longer periods of time.


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## asmartbull (Aug 16, 2009)

Fact is, living in New Endland it is earier
to maintain 60Rh/70*.
Had I noticed a big differnece at 60/60, I would have been pissed
because I don't want to buy wine coolers or convet a closet to hummie. 



Actually I would love to do a conversion.....but it aint happenning with this wife in this house....


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## OdessaDan (Nov 29, 2009)

Well living in FL makes it so that I have to have a wine cooler or moldy and beetle infested cigars.

I am hoping to be able to fine tune my setup to sit at 67rh/67*. Only time will tell...

Dan


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## asmartbull (Aug 16, 2009)

OdessaDan said:


> Well living in FL makes it so that I have to have a wine cooler or moldy and beetle infested cigars.
> 
> I am hoping to be able to fine tune my setup to sit at 67rh/67*. Only time will tell...
> 
> Dan


 Dan
Try your cc's closer to 60 and let us know what you thing. I went from 65 to 60ish and have been loving life


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## OdessaDan (Nov 29, 2009)

Bull,

What are you using to keep your cigars at 60rh. I am currently using KL, will that be a problem..

Dan


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## asmartbull (Aug 16, 2009)

KL is fine.....At this point you should be able to keep it dry until next Fall.
I use KL and Beads (60 rh) in my coolers
Beads in the desktops


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## TonyBrooklyn (Jan 28, 2010)

OdessaDan said:


> Well living in FL makes it so that I have to have a wine cooler or moldy and beetle infested cigars.
> 
> I am hoping to be able to fine tune my setup to sit at 67rh/67*. Only time will tell...
> 
> Dan


Storing at 67 degrees is a big misconception by many. Beetles can still hatch at that temp it will only take longer. That's why i never bought into the wineador concept. Even at 65 or 63 degrees once again just takes more time. Once you get around 60 degrees you are safe.


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## OdessaDan (Nov 29, 2009)

Thanks man, I am building the trays for the wine cooler now and after those are done ill look into getting the RH down. I have to see where it will sit after the trays are seasoned.

I will lower the Temp down to 60 and see what happens..


Dan


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## TonyBrooklyn (Jan 28, 2010)

asmartbull said:


> KL is fine.....At this point you should be able to keep it dry until next Fall.
> I use KL and Beads (60 rh) in my coolers
> Beads in the desktops


I am running dry litter since the end of march the R/h was creeping up slowly.


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## OdessaDan (Nov 29, 2009)

I have been running KL since March and it is stable at 70 with no movement. I am hoping that adding a ton of cedar will lower the RH. Well see what happens.. 

Does lower temps lower the RH?
Dan


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## Zogg (Aug 31, 2010)

asmartbull said:


> Dan
> Try your cc's closer to 60 and let us know what you thing. I went from 65 to 60ish and have been loving life


i saw you posting more about this, and after getting some CC's i ended up just putting the whole humi in the low 60's (about 60-64, never 65+) and ive been experiencing much better smokes!

I just had that perdomo limited edition red you gave me. Yummy!


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## Rock31 (Sep 30, 2010)

Thanks for the test Bull, I love these types of threads!


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## TonyBrooklyn (Jan 28, 2010)

OdessaDan said:


> I have been running KL since March and it is stable at 70 with no movement. I am hoping that adding a ton of cedar will lower the RH. Well see what happens..
> 
> Does lower temps lower the RH?
> Dan


Always colder air holds less humidity than warmer air. Once again which is why storing at close to room temperature works best. So we are back to freezing for prevention of beetles. Once again this is why i never bought into the wineadoor concept. Its a solution for a problem that does not exist if you freeze your stash.:beerchug:


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## asmartbull (Aug 16, 2009)

OdessaDan said:


> I have been running KL since March and it is stable at 70 with no movement. I am hoping that adding a ton of cedar will lower the RH. Well see what happens..
> 
> Does lower temps lower the RH?
> Dan


Dan
The reason I did this was to prove something to myself, or disprove it.
Part of my job is to understand humidity in the Winter. I have the temps and rh for morning ,noon and night for everyday this winter. Most nights temps dropped into the low 30's and rh was near 80%....That said, I had to prepare for DRY conditions......In the Summer we associate humidity with higher temps ( muggy days)......so the fact is you can have 80% rh at 30* and 100*. One is dry, the other wet...


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## ROB968323 (Aug 27, 2008)

TonyBrooklyn said:


> Storing at 67 degrees is a big misconception by many. Beetles can still hatch at that temp it will only take longer. That's why i never bought into the wineador concept. Even at 65 or 63 degrees once again just takes more time. Once you get around 60 degrees you are safe.


Really? I guess I should have bought the refrigeration unit for my humidor. Mine usually runs at 70 - 74 degrees and I have not had any beetle issues. I guess I could empty it and move it to the basement where it's a few degrees cooler.


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## lgomez (Aug 9, 2009)

In main walkin humi that feeds to two humidors to the left and right that maintain 59.9-60* no hygrometer so couldn't get that reading


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## austintxeric (Dec 15, 2009)

I have been keeping my wineador at around 65-66* and around 60-62% humidity. So far I haven't noticed any problems, but we are entering into the higher humidity time down here in Texas. I'm wondering if I should try dropping the temperature any or adjusting humidity? As of now, my newaire is sitting at it's highest temperature setting of 66*.


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## asmartbull (Aug 16, 2009)

austintxeric said:


> I have been keeping my wineador at around 65-66* and around 60-62% humidity. So far I haven't noticed any problems, but we are entering into the higher humidity time down here in Texas. I'm wondering if I should try dropping the temperature any or adjusting humidity? As of now, my newaire is sitting at it's highest temperature setting of 66*.


I could easily live with that all yr long


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## OdessaDan (Nov 29, 2009)

Thanks Bull and Tony,

I am starting to think that my wineador could have waited. On the other hand, my humidor was hitting temps of 75* and beyond. Last year when I only had a few sticks in my cabinet humi, the temps were steady around 78* during the summer. 

I am dropping the temp to 62* for now and the RH has come down to 67rh. I still may drop it to 60* and see how everything tastes..

Dan


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## kylej1 (Jun 26, 2007)

Living in Florida, the placement of my Vino in my apartment decides if it holds humidity and temp or not. If its by my sliding glass door, the temp and humidity will fluctuate. I have to place my Vino's away from the windows, luckily I have an A/C vent that blows air right into a corner away from my window, so my Vino's sit perfectly at 65*/65% all year round. Except in the deep summer months, the humidity may rise to 68%-70% but temp will hold because im blasting the A/C.


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## asmartbull (Aug 16, 2009)

OdessaDan said:


> Thanks Bull and Tony,
> 
> I am starting to think that my wineador could have waited. On the other hand, my humidor was hitting temps of 75* and beyond. Last year when I only had a few sticks in my cabinet humi, the temps were steady around 78* during the summer.
> 
> ...


Dan
If you can keep your temp at 65*.........perfect.. Then play with your rh


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## Mr. Slick (Aug 17, 2010)

Bullman/Tony: How ok or how bad is 63% 75*?



kylej1 said:


> Living in Florida, the placement of my Vino in my apartment decides if it holds humidity and temp or not. If its by my sliding glass door, the temp and humidity will fluctuate. I have to place my Vino's away from the windows, luckily I have an A/C vent that blows air right into a corner away from my window, so my Vino's sit perfectly at 65*/65% all year round. Except in the deep summer months, the humidity may rise to 68%-70% but temp will hold because im blasting the A/C.


Wouldn't having a vino make it where you didn't have to blast the A/C? :hmm:


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## kylej1 (Jun 26, 2007)

Mr. Slick said:


> Bullman/Tony: How ok or how bad is 63% 75*?
> 
> Wouldn't having a vino make it where you didn't have to blast the A/C? :hmm:


I don't have to blast the A/C for the Vino, its for me so I don't die from heat exhaustion, haha. Summer in Central Florida is unbearable, no breeze. My Vinos get a workout in the summer months, trying to keep them at temp, they are constantly running.


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## Mr. Slick (Aug 17, 2010)

kylej1 said:


> I don't have to blast the A/C for the Vino, its for me so I don't die from heat exhaustion, haha. Summer in Central Florida is unbearable, no breeze. My Vinos get a workout in the summer months, trying to keep them at temp, they are constantly running.


I have not yet took the vino plunge. It would keep my sticks cooler but on the other hand, the cost of the vino + shelves/drawers would equate to a lot of power bills. But I've been thinking about investing into a vino.


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## Herf N Turf (Dec 31, 2008)

Dammit, Al! Why do you wait until after I've just bumped you to render such a great thread???

Okay, how 'bout a virtual hug instead? :hug:


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## asmartbull (Aug 16, 2009)

Herf N Turf said:


> Dammit, Al! Why do you wait until after I've just bumped you to render such a great thread???
> 
> Okay, how 'bout a virtual hug instead? :hug:


Hug accepted.....
These types of threads sometimes go sideways and we end up talking
about the same old things.
To me this was simple. We know what we like when temp is a constant and RH varies......I wanted to know what happens if RH is a constant and temp varies. I come back to the my rule of 125/130
60 rh/ 65*
65 rh/ 65*
60 rh/ 70*
Anything in this area is fine and trying to get a +/-degree or +/-1 1 rh is 
just anal.

I prefer trying to maintain 65* as that is easier to control living in NH
and
60 RH as that's where the I enjoy my CC's
If my temps go to 70*, I will let my rh lower a little
In the Winter when the Temp drops, I run 65 beads.
KISS


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## Mr. Slick (Aug 17, 2010)

asmartbull said:


> I prefer trying to maintain 65* as that is easier to control living in NH


It's a lot hotter where I am and 75* is easier to mantain for me. Allow me to rephrase my question: If you were in my neck of the woods where a 65* room temp is not very feasible, how much effort would you put into getting the temp down a few notches? ie. vinotemp


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## asmartbull (Aug 16, 2009)

Mr. Slick said:


> It's a lot hotter where I am and 75* is easier to mantain for me. Allow me to rephrase my question: If you were in my neck of the woods where a 65* room temp is not very feasible, how much effort would you put into getting the temp down a few notches? ie. vinotemp


I would not let my cigars get to 75*....only bad things can happen.
At a minimum, I would freeze everything.
My buddy in MD picked up and old double door soda cooler.
It probably holds 500 cans.
He put his 120 qt cooler in that. Runs it 1 hr a day in the Summer
He uses a HYDRO that calculates Min/Max temp....and it holds
between 65 and 70......

Another put a portable AC in a closet....works like a charm

Sunpentown WA-9000E Portable Air Conditioner with 3-in-1 Technology

Sometimes you need to think outside the box


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## Mr. Slick (Aug 17, 2010)

:dude: Thanks Bro. -- thinking outside the box, or possibly thinking inside of an insulated box


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## Benji (Jan 10, 2010)

Great work thanks bull


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## TonyBrooklyn (Jan 28, 2010)

OdessaDan said:


> Thanks Bull and Tony,
> 
> I am starting to think that my wineador could have waited. On the other hand, my humidor was hitting temps of 75* and beyond. Last year when I only had a few sticks in my cabinet humi, the temps were steady around 78* during the summer.
> 
> ...


Think about it this way the whole island of Cuba is one big humidor. They regulate nothing and the cigars are just fine. They are cigars not people we tend to make more of this than is necessary IMHO. I would freeze to prevent beetles keep the R/H at an exceptional range. As far as temperature my home gets into the high 70's in Brooklyn and upstate N.Y. in the summer with no one home. Never had a problem as long as my stash is frozen first.


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## Scott W. (Jul 10, 2008)

My basement where I keep my supply sometimes hits 50 degrees in the winter but always stays at 63-65 RH. If I bring them upstairs, the temp would be 70 and because of the dry heat, I'd never keep the RH up. Am I screwing up my sticks by exposing them to these lower temps?


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## Habanolover (Feb 22, 2006)

scottw said:


> My basement where I keep my supply sometimes hits 50 degrees in the winter but always stays at 63-65 RH. If I bring them upstairs, the temp would be 70 and because of the dry heat, I'd never keep the RH up. Am I screwing up my sticks by exposing them to these lower temps?


No problem with the lower temps Scott.


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## asmartbull (Aug 16, 2009)

scottw said:


> My basement where I keep my supply sometimes hits 50 degrees in the winter but always stays at 63-65 RH. If I bring them upstairs, the temp would be 70 and because of the dry heat, I'd never keep the RH up. Am I screwing up my sticks by exposing them to these lower temps?


That is the exact reason I tried it.
and
The only think I wound was that the wrappers were a little dryer
after a cpl months.


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## bouncintiga (Feb 3, 2010)

great thread man! i would rg bump but i gotta spread the love first. the 125/130 rule is interesting, i've never heard it before so always glad to learn something.

right now i keep my stash upstairs in the winter and in the basement during the summer, usually stays around 65 degrees if i work it right.


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## Scott W. (Jul 10, 2008)

Habanolover said:


> No problem with the lower temps Scott.


OK, I feel better now. I always was curious about the way the temp affected the wrapper's ability to lend to the flavor and body if exposed to low temps over a longer period of time. I have CCs from 1998 in there.


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