# propylene glycol please explain to a newbie



## luckybandit (Jul 9, 2006)

Some of the humidifier solutions advertised are a 50/50 propylene glycol/distilled water solution and others are 80/20 propylene glycol/distilled water solution what is preferred or is there a real difference. Which will help to keep a 70% humidity level. Also what is in the humi-stat jars i see also used to keep the humidy in check.
thanks
bandit


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## RJT (Feb 12, 2005)

Beads my man. RJT

http://www.clubstogie.com/vb/showthread.php?t=9483&highlight=BEADS


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## Vegas Smoker (May 26, 2006)

Just use plain old distilled water, works fine.

Check out Viper's beads at http://www.heartfeltindustries.com. They are used by many a member here at CS. I use them for my wine cooler and never have to worry about the humidity levels. If you have anymore questions, PM me. Welcome to CS!

Stephen


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## Baric (Jun 14, 2006)

luckybandit said:


> Some of the humidifier solutions advertised are a 50/50 propylene glycol/distilled water solution and others are 80/20 propylene glycol/distilled water solution what is preferred or is there a real difference. Which will help to keep a 70% humidity level. Also what is in the humi-stat jars i see also used to keep the humidy in check.
> thanks
> bandit


I dont think the solution differences matter that much as there seems to be an even amount of companies on the net selling both and both claiming them to maintain 70% humidity nicely. Most likely to be a marketing spin or one will save the company money [ie using less expensive ingredient]. not sure about the humi stat jar though.


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## RGD (May 10, 2006)

RJT said:


> Beads my man. RJT
> 
> http://www.clubstogie.com/vb/showthread.php?t=9483&highlight=BEADS


:tpd:

Hey bandit -

Seriously - you need to read the link as posted by RJT. We have all been where you are so your the lucky one who gets to learn from our travels.

The problem with PG solution is that - in my opinon it's only 50/50 the first time you use it. When re-filling you don't use PG - just distilled water. Some of the PG will wear out let's say. If you were to just add more PG - then the PG levels will be higher than 50/50.

So - best deal is to either use the Viper Beads (and he is a member here) as posted above - or go with the Humidi-Puck (CLICK HERE) from Mark who is also a member.

Good luck -

Ron


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## Hammerhead (Sep 7, 2005)

Ditto, bro. Beads.


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## SeanGAR (Jul 9, 2004)

I also vote for the beads. Propylene glycol lowers the humidity provided by water. Straight water should be close to 100%. As the mole fraction of the water in solution drops, so does the humidity produced. So you can lower the humidity by adding sugar, salt, or propylene glycol. The water will evaporate, the PG will not, so you're supposed to recharge with pure distilled water only. Course, PG is slightly volatile so the % changes with time.

The 2 different % propylene glycol levels should provide different humidities, I can calculate what they should produce using equations but don't have them in front of me right now. I have used 50-50 in the past, it worked OK, but do what the others have said and get the beads.


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## justinphilly-cl (Sep 7, 2005)

SeanGAR said:


> I also vote for the beads. Propylene glycol lowers the humidity provided by water. Straight water should be close to 100%. As the mole fraction of the water in solution drops, so does the humidity produced. So you can lower the humidity by adding sugar, salt, or propylene glycol. The water will evaporate, the PG will not, so you're supposed to recharge with pure distilled water only. Course, PG is slightly volatile so the % changes with time.
> 
> The 2 different % propylene glycol levels should provide different humidities, I can calculate what they should produce using equations but don't have them in front of me right now. I have used 50-50 in the past, it worked OK, but do what the others have said and get the beads.


Bueller, Bueller, Buller, Ferris, Bueller

(really informative post)


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## Bruce (Dec 31, 1999)

PG also over time "clogs" your humidifier up. After a while you will notice the inability for your humidifier to hold the % up where you want it.

If you use PG, you need to purge the humidifier a few times a year.........flush it out well with distilled water, let it dry out, then refresh with new solution mix.

Even though PG is supposed to be harmless, I don't like the idea of ANY chemical use in my humidor.

Back when my collection was small many, many years ago, I had a Daniel Marshall 200ct humidor that used a foam humidifier with a PG solution. One day it leaked out on top of some very rare cigars, and it damaged the cigars. I will never use it again!


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## SeanGAR (Jul 9, 2004)

Bruce said:


> Even though PG is supposed to be harmless, I don't like the idea of ANY chemical use in my humidor.


That is my thought as well ... it can't be good for you or your cigars to have some propylene glycol volatilize and dissolve into them.


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## luckybandit (Jul 9, 2006)

thanks so much for your post i really do prefer you thought on not putting any chemicals in the box great post as a newbie i can really appreciate it
bandit




RGD said:


> :tpd:
> 
> Hey bandit -
> 
> ...


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## luckybandit (Jul 9, 2006)

thanks for your post and explaining the beads, one more question what is in those humi-stat jars then?

bandit



RGD said:


> :tpd:
> 
> Hey bandit -
> 
> ...


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## RGD (May 10, 2006)

SeanGAR said:


> That is my thought as well ... it can't be good for you or your cigars to have some propylene glycol volatilize and dissolve into them.


Since propylene glycol is used in food products and cosmetics - people ingest it on a daily basis - it's mostly just the thought of it really.

Ron


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## RGD (May 10, 2006)

One more thing Bandit - just a friendly note: You don't always need to quote an entire message when you are replying - esp if it's a long one. Tends to annoy people after a while.
Right next to the "Reply with Quote" button is a smaller "white icon with an arrow" - click that instead and then type in the box at the bottom of the page.
If you do need to quote someone - you can delete the parts of the message not needed.

Ron


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## Bruce (Dec 31, 1999)

I understand that PG is harmless, and you are right, it's "just the thought of it". 
There are so many great products on the market that do not require PG, why not buy and use one of them?
If you use a PG humidifier, to me it's just another item you have to buy and worry about, and another step in the care process.


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## kansashat (Mar 13, 2004)

Not to threadjack here, but is glycerine a substance that is similar to PG in properties?

I saw an old bottle of glycerine in an antique store the other day & began to wonder about it's qualities as a humectant.

This is a question to satisy curiosity BTW & is not meant to start a debate as to the best way to humidify your cigars.


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## kansashat (Mar 13, 2004)

kansashat said:


> Not to threadjack here, but is glycerine a substance that is similar to PG in properties?
> 
> I saw an old bottle of glycerine in an antique store the other day & began to wonder about it's qualities as a humectant.
> 
> This is a question to satisy curiosity BTW & is not meant to start a debate as to the best way to humidify your cigars.


I googled. The answer is yes.


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## SeanGAR (Jul 9, 2004)

RGD said:


> Since propylene glycol is used in food products and cosmetics - people ingest it on a daily basis - it's mostly just the thought of it really.
> 
> Ron


Correct. I'm a Food Scientist, I know all about propylene glycol.

The issue is the difference between what happens when you consume it orally versus what happens when it is volatilized and/or oxidized in a cigar. You cannot use oral consumption safety data to show that a completely different consumption route is safe.

Here is the MSDS safety sheet for PG.

http://www.jtbaker.com/msds/englishhtml/p6928.htm

Note that they say no adverse health affects by inhalation. They're talking about the chemical itself, not the compounds formed after pyrolysis. Very low levels ... probably safe. But I see no need to take any chances at all since it can be easily avoided by using beads. As well, are there flavor changes due to low levels of PG dissolving in the cigar? I dont think this has been examined.

I also happen to think that some of the approved food additives are unsafe .. so maybe I'm a wack.


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## luckybandit (Jul 9, 2006)

thanks
bandit


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## JohnnyFlake (May 31, 2006)

If you insist on using PG, use distilled water, however, PG will clog up you oasis in time, your cigars and then your brain!!!

*Use the BEADS, my friend. There is nothing better!!!*

JohnnyFlake


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## Fireman_UK (Mar 14, 2006)

Looks like I'm gonna have to hunt down some beads. It seems I've been living in the dark ages with my oasis, which I top up with distilled water once a month (and anologue hygrometer, I'm ashamed to say!)


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## kenstogie (Jun 14, 2005)

FWIW, I love the beads they really work.


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