# Bad basket pipe - what to do?



## Stonedog (Mar 9, 2011)

Hi Everyone,

When I got into this a few months ago I put down about $30 for a new "basket" pipe that I was told was an Italian seconds. It feels good in the hand and I think it looks pretty nice, but...

I didn't know enough to look at the drill hole. It sits a few millimeters above the bottom of the bowl. The pipe always gurgles and most of the time I get a lot of moisture from 1/3 of the way through the bowl and I usually get a very bitter taste on the bit when I'm closer to the end of the bowl. I use a pipe cleaner to try to get rid of the moisture but most of the time I can't insert it fully.

So my question... What to do with this pipe? I feel like I should just dump it in the trash and move on. I could try the pipe mud trick with the bottom of the bowl but it sounds like that the dried mud isn't very strong and will pop out or break after a while.

What do you guys do in a situation like this?


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## ChronoB (Nov 4, 2007)

Stonedog said:


> Hi Everyone,
> 
> When I got into this a few months ago I put down about $30 for a new "basket" pipe that I was told was an Italian seconds. It feels good in the hand and I think it looks pretty nice, but...
> 
> ...


Well, if you really like this particular pipe you could always send it out somewhere to have the drilling improved, both in the stem and the briar. Otherwise, yeah, set it aside and move on.

I recommend people start with an estate pipe from a reputable dealer like smokingpipes.com or pulversbriar.com. A $30 - $40 estate pipe is a proven smoker, already broken in, and probably cost a quite a bit more when new. Basket pipes are always a risk.


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## Natedogg (Jun 21, 2010)

Is it a straight or bent pipe? A high draft hole in the bowl on a straight could cause pooling of the moisture in the shank and stem. If it's a bent pipe,, then it would be a bit weird that you are getting that moisture in the bit.

One thing that has worked for me to build up a bottom is to put a bit of honey in the bottom, smoke it, then repeat until it builds up. I haven't had it fall out yet and I'm about to do the same in my Oom Paul.


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## Natedogg (Jun 21, 2010)

ChronoB said:


> Well, if you really like this particular pipe you could always send it out somewhere to have the drilling improved, both in the stem and the briar. Otherwise, yeah, set it aside and move on.
> 
> I recommend people start with an estate pipe from a reputable dealer like smokingpipes.com or pulversbriar.com. A $30 - $40 estate pipe is a proven smoker, already broken in, and probably cost a quite a bit more when new. Basket pipes are always a risk.


From what I have seen lately, some more expensive pipes are too. Some people may just smoke them then they become an Estate pipe later, and the hole is still high, and you end up with it.

A slightly off the bottom draft hole isn't a big deal. When it's measurable, it's a problem.


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## Contrabass Bry (May 3, 2010)

Pipe mud costs nothing. A redrill of the shank & stem will cost more than you originally spent on the pipe. ($35)

Mud will work, you just have to do it properly(ash to honey ratio) and let it fully cure before you smoke though it.


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## Stonedog (Mar 9, 2011)

ChronoB said:


> Well, if you really like this particular pipe you could always send it out somewhere to have the drilling improved, both in the stem and the briar. Otherwise, yeah, set it aside and move on.
> 
> I recommend people start with an estate pipe from a reputable dealer like smokingpipes.com or pulversbriar.com. A $30 - $40 estate pipe is a proven smoker, already broken in, and probably cost a quite a bit more when new. Basket pipes are always a risk.


My second non-cob pipe was exactly this. An old Bertram straight apple with a rather large over-reamed bowl and slightly faded bit. It smokes like a dream as do my other two briars. This one just bugs me...


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## Stonedog (Mar 9, 2011)

Natedogg said:


> Is it a straight or bent pipe? A high draft hole in the bowl on a straight could cause pooling of the moisture in the shank and stem. If it's a bent pipe,, then it would be a bit weird that you are getting that moisture in the bit.
> 
> One thing that has worked for me to build up a bottom is to put a bit of honey in the bottom, smoke it, then repeat until it builds up. I haven't had it fall out yet and I'm about to do the same in my Oom Paul.


It is quite bent, not quite an oom paul but similar to this. I think the bad tennon/mortise fit might be the reason for the moisture at the bit, not sure. Like I said, I can't get a pipe cleaner through it so something is happening in there.


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## Andrewdk (Feb 3, 2011)

I'm no expert but I'd go with the mud trick, can't remember who posted it but there is a very detailed thread on mudding a pipe with honey and ash on Puff. As Bryan said ash and honey cost nothing, so may as well try it.


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## Stonedog (Mar 9, 2011)

Andrewdk said:


> I'm no expert but I'd go with the mud trick, can't remember who posted it but there is a very detailed thread on mudding a pipe with honey and ash on Puff. As Bryan said ash and honey cost nothing, so may as well try it.


I'm not really a cigar smoker, so the pipe mud isn't 100% free.  Perhaps this is an excuse to go buy one (or more) cigars :biggrin: I've got a whole batch of this funky "Manuka" honey from New Zealand, so I'm covered on that end.


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## Commander Quan (May 6, 2003)

Wood Putty can also be used to raise the heel.


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## Contrabass Bry (May 3, 2010)

Personally, I'd use pipe ash. Barring that, go to a cigar bar and scoop some up...


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## DSturg369 (Apr 6, 2008)

Pipe mud will fix this. There are several "how to" sites for this. A quick Google search should get you there. 

Be careful of using pipe ash. A lot of the time little tiny bits of tobacco will remain in the ash. I'd opt for cigar ash, and have in the couple of times I've used pipe mud for a fix.


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## Blue_2 (Jan 25, 2011)

Here's a decent read on Pipe Mud

Pipe Mud? - alt.smokers.pipes | Google Groups


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## DSturg369 (Apr 6, 2008)

Did you try it yet?


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## WyoBob (Mar 6, 2007)

The mud should fix a "high hole" problem.

Now for the stem. Since it isn't a good smoker and you might have second thoughts about sending a cheap pipe out to be fixed, experiment on the pipe yourself.

Straighten your stem by sticking pipe cleaners in it to prevent collapse. If a pipe cleaner won't fit, perhaps a length of bare copper wire or something similar. Apply heat while rotating the stem while holding on to the cleaner/wire sticking out of both ends and straighten. When cool, increase the size of the passage in the stem by gradually stepping up drill bit sizes. Take an initial draw on the stem so you have something to compare to as you increase hole size. When you think you have it right, install the stem on the shank and smoke the pipe. When the draw suits you, install pipe cleaners back into the stem and bend to suit.


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## Stonedog (Mar 9, 2011)

DSturg369 said:


> Did you try it yet?


I'm building up a supply of cigar ash first... :smoke2:

I started with a Padron 2000 Maduro this weekend and the experience ended in a rather unpleasant manner. I've got a second stoagie waiting to go but I rarely have an opportunity to smoke so who knows when I will get to it.

On a whim I went in to the B&M that sold me the offending pipe and explained my situation hoping that he would dump the store ashtray into a baggie for me. The conversation went something like "I have a strange request for you... A while back you sold me a basket pipe that had a bad drill hole. I've read that I can mix cigar ash with honey to fix the problem... Do you have cigar ash I can have?" The ashtray on the counter was full of huge flakes of ash which was a little odd, I've never seen cigar ash like that.

Actually voicing that last question was really awkward. Asking for another man for his ash(hehe) just felt gross and unhygienic.

Anyway, the shop owner said I could stop back and get some later but then he went into his humidor and brought out a massive no-name stick and gave it to me on the house. "That should make plenty of ash!" was his comment.

So now I have two cigars waiting for me and I have no idea when I'll be able to smoke either.

I also picked up a box of activated charcoal as I've read it can be crushed to a fine powder and used for the same purpose. However, I don't trust it (no telling what/where it came from or what else is in it) so I'm not going to use it.

So the short answer would be No I haven't tried it yet.

EDIT: When I do I'll post before and after picks in this thread.


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## Stonedog (Mar 9, 2011)

I'll go ahead and post "before" pics. I took them with an HTC Evo so they aren't the best quality...

It's a no-name Italian seconds/basket pipe. I like the look and it feels pretty good in the hand. The stem is vulcanite and didn't take long to begin to discolor.



And here's a pic of the chamber.



Note the draft hole enters well above the bottom. I'd guess between 1/4" and 3/16". The little dot is actually the very bottom point of the bowl.


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## Stonedog (Mar 9, 2011)

Over the weekend I had enough time to mix up some mud. I used the ash from about 1.5 5x50 maduros and two or three drops of honey. The mud ended up very pasty and crumbly, no idea if it was the right level of moisture...

I started by filling so that the mud was about level with the center of the draft hole then inserted a pipe cleaner:









Pic of the mud after spinning and then removing the pipe cleaner:










Finally, I used the tip of a finger to smooth out the edges and blend them into the chamber wall:










Looking at these pictures I didn't realize the chamber was this dirty. Hopefully that won't affect the mud's ability to stick to the briar.

After 48 hours the mud is still a bit moist to the touch. I'm going to let it dry for a few weeks before I try to smoke it.


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## KBibbs (Oct 28, 2008)

That actually looks like a pretty smooth job. And I'm glad to hear about the owner giving you a free stick. Very nice on his part.


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## DSturg369 (Apr 6, 2008)

Set aside to dry for a day. When dry, it should be absolutely solid. If it crumbles, you used too much ash - if it hasn't set solid, you used too much water. If it is solid, go ahead and smoke as usual. Good looking job you did! :tu.


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## Stonedog (Mar 9, 2011)

DSturg369 said:


> Set aside to dry for a day. When dry, it should be absolutely solid. If it crumbles, you used too much ash - if it hasn't set solid, you used too much water. If it is solid, go ahead and smoke as usual. Good looking job you did! :tu.


It's solid but sticky/tacky because of the honey (I didn't use water).

I'm tempted to fill it up with PA and just go for it. The only thing stopping me is the idea of dottle permanently embedded in the mud.

I've also considered baking the pipe (sans stem) in an old toaster oven set as low as possible. I would wrap the outside of the pipe and stem with several layers of aluminum foil to help protect the outside... Any thoughts?


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## DSturg369 (Apr 6, 2008)

A low-temp baking might help it cure quicker. Keep a good eye on it if you go that route. And one bad thing, due to honey's viscosity, I hope it didn't develop any tiny bubbles during your mixing. Any air bubbles will cause it to crack and flake/chip away.


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## Stonedog (Mar 9, 2011)

DSturg369 said:


> A low-temp baking might help it cure quicker. Keep a good eye on it if you go that route. And one bad thing, due to honey's viscosity, I hope it didn't develop any tiny bubbles during your mixing. Any air bubbles will cause it to crack and flake/chip away.


I don't recommend the low temp baking...

The mud puffed or bubbled and ruined the nice smooth surface I had created. I had to go back in with a pipe cleaner and remove most of the top layer. It doesn't look as good but what remains is noticeably harder and dryer than before.

Details: I set the toaster oven to about 225 and left it in there for 15 minutes. maybe it was too much heat or maybe I left it for too long. Heck, maybe the mud had too much honey, who knows. Whatever you do, do not use your kitchen oven unless you live alone... ainkiller:

Next time I will use more ash and will just let it sit for a few weeks.


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## NarJar (May 9, 2011)

I wonder if a blow-dryer would have been a better option? Or possibly setting it outside in the sun during the day?

I guess I'm not much help by proposing ideas after the fact, huh?


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## Stonedog (Mar 9, 2011)

I think leaving it in the sun would've been a good idea. I considered it over the weekend but wanted to let it dry in the garage for a few days as a sort of control. Obviously that didn't work and I ran out of patience...

Here is the pic after it was done baking. Draft hole is at the 9 o'clock position:










And after I did some work with a pipe cleaner. Draft hole at 9 o'clock:










So, lesson learned:

Don't bake a basket pipe with honey-based pipe mud. It doesn't work well and stinks up the garage.

I know someone out there is reading this thinking "What the heck were you thinking trying THAT?!" To them I can offer two answers

1) I did this in the name of science!

2) Subconsciously I want to ruin this 'basket case' pipe so that I can replace it with a Peterson or Savinelli.


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## freestoke (Feb 13, 2011)

Starting to look like you're a budding alchemist, Jon! You've turned briar into silver! You'll be able to afford that Savinelli in no time!


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## Stonedog (Mar 9, 2011)

freestoke said:


> Starting to look like you're a budding alchemist, Jon! You've turned briar into silver! You'll be able to afford that Savinelli in no time!


Speaking of silver... Would that I could create one of these:


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## freestoke (Feb 13, 2011)

Hubba hubba!


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## DSturg369 (Apr 6, 2008)

You could try sanding the bowl inner base with a wooden dowel and sandpaper or a rotary wood file to see what happens.


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## Stonedog (Mar 9, 2011)

Well, I'm happy to report that the inaugural smoke went well.

I filled it with about 1/2 way with PA and settled back for a long brutal commute. No gurgling, nice draw with no clogs and volumes of smoke that only the OTC burleys seem capable of.

My suspicions about too much honey in the mud seem accurate. While the mud around the draft hole has hardened/cured into a nice hard cake-like substance the mud on the other side of the bowl is still sticky and has trapped some of the dottle. Not sure if I need to remove it or just leave for a few more smokes...


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## Stonedog (Mar 9, 2011)

Disclaimer: Most of you experienced pipe guys know this, but maybe newbies like me will benefit from the following...

It's been almost two months now and I have to say that there doesn't seem to be an benefit to using honey instead of water to make the "mud". Even after two months the mud is still a bit moist and remains sticky so that unsmoked tobacco has to be scraped away manually after each smoke. The gurgling has lessened but is still present.

I've mudded two other pipes (a big Saseini "old england" and a MM Country Gentleman) using just bottled water and cigar ash and once dry they've remained solid and not the least bit "sticky".


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## freestoke (Feb 13, 2011)

Stonedog said:


> It's been almost two months now and I have to say that there doesn't seem to be an benefit to using honey instead of water to make the "mud".


I found the same, but I would go further -- honey seems to be a detriment. Honey, being a humectant, constantly rewets itself from the humidity in the atmosphere, so it just never dries out. Maybe for a thin layer it would be fine, where it burns and becomes part of the char, but for a plug I think it's a mistake to use honey. I did two plugs for a high drill and they both eventually fell out, still soft after quite a few smokes despite smoking the bowls right down to ash.


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## Stonedog (Mar 9, 2011)

freestoke said:


> I found the same, but I would go further -- honey seems to be a detriment. Honey, being a humectant, constantly rewets itself from the humidity in the atmosphere, so it just never dries out. Maybe for a thin layer it would be fine, where it burns and becomes part of the char, but for a plug I think it's a mistake to use honey. I did two plugs for a high drill and they both eventually fell out, still soft after quite a few smokes despite smoking the bowls right down to ash.


That settles it then, I will be removing the honey-mud plug and starting over with water-based mud. First I have to make more cigar ash (tough job, I know).


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## Stonedog (Mar 9, 2011)

Stonedog said:


> That settles it then, I will be removing the honey-mud plug and starting over with water-based mud. First I have to make more cigar ash (tough job, I know).


Well, nearly two weeks after removing the honey-mud (and replacing it with water-based mud) I'm happy to report that the pipe has a completely different (and better) character now.

It gurgles as much as my "good" pipes (that is to say very little) and best of all the baccy doesn't stick to the mud anymore.


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