# What's the secret to smoking to the bottom?



## Piper (Nov 30, 2008)

I have a lot of trouble smoking to the bottom of the bowl, which I'm told is where a lot of flavor lives. What normally happens is that I have to tamp and relight more and more frequently as I approach the bottom and even after all the fuss the embers die out. I thought it might be because I'd burnt up all the tobacco but when I relight I get a nice flume of smoke and when I dump out the pipe there's still some (though not much) unburnt tobacco left. What's the secret? Is it the packing, the puffing, the type of tobacco or just experience?


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## Hermit (Aug 5, 2008)

Are you drying out the tobacco enough?


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## Piper (Nov 30, 2008)

Hermit, That's a very good point. I think that was a problem in the past. Recently, I've made a point of spreading out the tobacco on a piece of paper for 20 or 30 minutes if it's not sufficiently dry. It certainly helps. But even when I dry out the tobacco I seem to have this problem—although less. Still, I'm going to keep it in mind.


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## webjunkie (Jul 18, 2007)

Sometimes I get over enthusiastic with my tamping and I just mess everything up so that when I get to the last third it goes out and I just can't keep it going. Could be an issue.


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## DubintheDam (Jun 5, 2007)

It is actually very difficult to keep your pipe burning without relights while still burning dry all the way to the bottom. If you puff regularly your pipe will stay lit but will also get wet and damp at the bottom of the bowl. People who always get a grey dry ash at the bottom usually dry their baccy out almost to extreme.

If I go into a shop and buy a tin of baccy, open it and put it in my pipe it will not be dry! So according to the 'dry your baccy school of thought' you have to go to a warm cafe, and sit there with you baccy on a tissue waiting for your baccy to dry for 30 mins while everyone looks at you like you're completely nuts! If circumstance permits, I open a tin a week or two before I intend to smoke from it.

The secret is to gentle stir the baccy towards the end of the bowl with your pipe tool. That said many pipes will just not smoke dry to the bottom because of their design, using a pipe cleaner to mop up before the pipe starts to gurgle is also a good tip. Yet another tip is to keep an almost empty chamber in the bottom of the bowl when packing. Also tamp and tip the ash, not too much or too little, tip ash once or twice, tamp 3 or 4 times, per bowl.

But lastly the word 'dottle' exist for a reason...it is a common occurance...and with practice it can be diminished.


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## Dzrtrat (Oct 9, 2006)

Piper said:


> ............ What's the secret? Is it the packing, the puffing, the type of tobacco or just experience?


Yes


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## Dzrtrat (Oct 9, 2006)

Okay I guess I should have at least contributed something. I will tell you what I do. First off I smoke bent Peterson's with the lip bit so using a pipe cleaner during a smoke is not an option. (someone said it was easier to pic your nose with boxing gloves) I rarely tamp and when I do I just knock down the ash with my finger, using your finger is a guaranty that you won't tamp to hard. Unless you're a masochist and enjoy pain. Dry your tobacco out some, I do, I don't dry them out excessively but I do let them set a bit (10-20min) I smoke English/Balkan blends Aro's may take longer I don't know. I don't dump the ash durring a smoke why? Well if there is moisture in the well of the pipe and you tip it over you can drown the baccy, when you here that tssstssss sound...yep you just did it. Im not going to talk about filling the bowl there are a thousand threads on this subject and you prolly know if its a good fill or not by the way the draw feels. Hope this helps somewhat.

~Rob~


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## Phlegmatic (Aug 1, 2008)

Dry the tobac, allways use a clean pipe, and puff slow. Make sure the ash dont form a dent in it where the air gets higher speed, making it burn unevenly, keep stiring as dub said!

And best trick of all: get a filter pipe!


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## Mister Moo (Sep 8, 2005)

1. Are you smoking aromatics and, if so, what brand and where do you get them? Many humectant-soaked bulk tobaks, aros in particular, may not burn to ash under any circumstances.
2. Is you pipe, if not a cob or meer, caked? Caked briar smokes a little drier. Is the pipe geometry correct?
3. Do you get an even burn after a charring tamp? Bad fill will cause uneven burns; uneven burns may leave a clod of unburned tobak or dottle at pipe bottom.
4. Does your fill and tamping cause you to draw against anything more than a very slight resistance? An overly tight fill will resist complete burning.
5. Are you a hopeless novice, lacking the requisite 12-24 months of practice it takes to become a functional expert? Over time the mysterious nature of pipes and pipe tobacco combustion unravels, one bowl at a time. Look to all advice above (and below?) plus practice and experience. All problems tend to evaporate.


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## Mad Hatter (Apr 8, 2007)

When I have to relight toward the bottom of the bowl I rake the ash toward the rear and just relight the tobacco toward the front half of the chamber. The tobacco will burn toward the airway and the closer you are to the airway the more quickly it will burn that direction. But if moisture is your problem then maybe its your packing technique, the pipe or the tobacco.


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## Piper (Nov 30, 2008)

Gentlemen, thanks for the fantastic advice. No wonder I'm not getting to the bottom of the bowl! 

Here's what I think I understand: I'm going to open the tobacco cans a few weeks before using them, make sure the tobacco is dry but not overly dry, pack carefully (perhaps not to the bottom), make sure the entire surface lights and burns down evenly, NOT empty the ashes, tamp with my finger, mop up moisture with a pipe cleaner, stir the tobacco and ashes when I get to the bottom, then rake the ashes to the rear (?towards the air hole) and light the front. 

One thing I didn't quite understand: Dubin, when you say tap and TIP the ash, what do you mean by tip? Is is another way to stir up the tobacco at the bottom or is it similar to the idea of moving the tobacco to the rear as recommended by Mad Hatter. 

Anyway, now I know why Moo made his final recommendation: another 12-24 months of pipe experience. Does smoking three bowls a day speed up the learning curve or just burn your tongue?


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## Mister Moo (Sep 8, 2005)

Piper said:


> Does smoking three bowls a day speed up the learning curve or just burn your tongue?


Tongue burn is a sympton, mostly, of things other than x-bowls/day. You'll figure it out (wet tobak and/or bad fill) and banish it.


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## Phlegmatic (Aug 1, 2008)

Tounge burn should be left to heal imho, I belive its rather harmful to the cells, naked from blasting with hot smoke, to be subjected to more smoke! :2


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## Hydrated (Aug 9, 2006)

My secret when it comes to smoking all the way to the bottom:

Don't smoke all the way to the bottom!

I don't smoke cigars all the way down to the nub, and I don't usually try to smoke a bowl all the way to the bottom. I don't like the taste that you normally get as the tobacco burns toward the bottom of the bowl. I guess the tar and stuff gets more concentrated as you burn those last bits of tobacco in the bottom of the bowl... and I just don't like it. I don't visit the Beast who lives in the bottom of the bowl!

I know that this is heresy to many pipers, but so what? I like the first 3/4 of the bowl best, so anytime after that... it's likely to get dumped out. Don't feel like you're a failure if you don't get every bowl to smoke down to a clean gray ash.


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## Piper (Nov 30, 2008)

Hydrated, I think this is a good point: people should enjoy their hobbies however the want to. I know coffee connoisseurs who think coffee should only be taken black. Personally, I like milk and sugar. But the smoking to the bottom idea seems to be pretty universal. I wonder why that is?


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## Big D KC (Oct 21, 2008)

Piper said:


> But the smoking to the bottom idea seems to be pretty universal. I wonder why that is?


My guess would be it has to do with the need/desire to build an even cake all the way to the heal of a pipe to protect it from burnout, to help it with absorbing excess moisture, and to help in providing a cool smoke. Without a carbon cake build up in the heal of the pipe it would be open to all of the above. The only way to get that even cake in the heal of the pipe is to smoke it all the way to the bottom..


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## Mister Moo (Sep 8, 2005)

Hydrated said:


> My secret when it comes to smoking all the way to the bottom: Don't smoke all the way to the bottom! I know that this is heresy to many pipers, but so what?


I drink my press coffee right to the sludge, then swish, gulp and chew. I ride my motorcycle 'til there's just fumes in the tank and I eat apple cores, gulp down cereal packaging when the Cheerios are gone and nub good cigars. I upend the last shot outta the Russian Standard bottle and shake the cocktail shaker to the last drop of Bombay Dry Gin. When the mojito is "finished" I eat the mint leaves and ice cubes. I watch the credit at the end of a movie and don't throw out a pair of jeans until you can read a newspaper through the backside (that scares the neighborhood children away - another plus). My Mercedes has over 600,000 miles on the ticker and Jeep is closing on 300,000 with no end in sight. I lick out cakepans and pudding bowls.

The idea of not smoking a pipe until a big fat shot of burning embers is glued to the roof of my mouth never ocurred to me. Heresy? Ha!










Inconceivable!

(In fact, at smokes end, I enjoy tapping a pipe gently on the side and pouring out a half-thimble of perfect talc-like grey dust. It happens. But I really don't enjoy that little gulp of powder and ember which is sometimes the price - it does diminish the thrill of the chase. 

This weeks smokes included several rounds of folded/stuffed Escudo which, in the pipes-de-jour, ended up with a little clot of crunchy dottle at the bottom. Nonetheless, and with no particular effort or attention to an all-ash conclusion, a few bowls of MacBarens Navy Flake (also folded and stuffed) ended quietly and cleanly with nothing but ash. In the end, Hydrated has it covered (as usual) - smoke what tastes and works best for you. It's a journey, not a destination, right? p )


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## Smarvy (Nov 4, 2008)

Mister Moo said:


> But I really don't enjoy that little gulp of powder and ember which is sometimes the price - it does diminish the thrill of the chase.


If there were no consequences for failure, it wouldn't be worth doing.


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## Hydrated (Aug 9, 2006)

I can see your point, Moo... but...


Mister Moo said:


> Inconceivable!












I do not think that means what you think it means.


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## Mister Moo (Sep 8, 2005)

Hydrated said:


> I do not think that means what you think it means.


You mean, you'll put down your rock and I'll put down my sword, and we'll try and kill each other like civilized people?


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## selleri (Feb 6, 2008)

Big D KC said:


> My guess would be it has to do with the need/desire to build an even cake all the way to the heal of a pipe to protect it from burnout,


No burnouts in the bottom if you are not smoking all the way there, cake or not 

Pipe that's not smoked all the way gets sour easier, that's the reason I'm usually trying to smoke all the way. But if the taste gets foul, I'm throwing the rest of the bowl away in blink of an eye.


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## emh (Nov 26, 2008)

"* What's the secret to smoking to the bottom"

Theres an off colored joke here somewhere!:w
*


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## Hermit (Aug 5, 2008)

A new pipe should be smoked to the bitter end.
Once it is broken in, feel free to dump it when
it no longer tastes good.


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## atlacatl (Sep 18, 2006)

I still haven't figured out how to smoke until the bottom of the bowl cause it never stays dry for me. I too dump the tobac about 3/4 of the way. I don't like the taste at the bottom and by that time its all wet anyways.


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## andrew (Nov 16, 2008)

I had a really bad case today, when I was smoking my penzance. Everything was going fine when about 1/2 way through I noticed that the draw was getting tighter and tighter. Eventually it got to where I could hardly draw at all. I wasnt tamping so I figured it must have been cause of the moisture. I dumped the tobacco and noticed that it was extremely moist. Now, I thought I'd let it dry out long enough but apparently not. I'm going to need to watch it next time.


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## Mister Moo (Sep 8, 2005)

andrew said:


> I had a really bad case today, when I was smoking my penzance. Everything was going fine when about 1/2 way through I noticed that the draw was getting tighter and tighter. Eventually it got to where I could hardly draw at all. I wasnt tamping so I figured it must have been cause of the moisture. I dumped the tobacco and noticed that it was extremely moist. Now, I thought I'd let it dry out long enough but apparently not. I'm going to need to watch it next time.


Pez expands quite a bit during a smoke and can plug a pipe 100% if the fill was a bit to snug. Pez is, for me, a standout smoke in the bottom 1/3 of the bowl - one I really like taking to the end.


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## Bent Stem (Nov 10, 2008)

I have my best success with the tamp/stir/re-pack method mentioned earlier.p Not sure if this is the "right way" but it works for me.


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## imperial Stout (Nov 21, 2008)

Hermit said:


> A new pipe should be smoked to the bitter end.
> Once it is broken in, feel free to dump it when
> it no longer tastes good.





selleri said:


> No burnouts in the bottom if you are not smoking all the way there, cake or not
> 
> Pipe that's not smoked all the way gets sour easier, that's the reason I'm usually trying to smoke all the way. But if the taste gets foul, I'm throwing the rest of the bowl away in blink of an eye.


...I need to start smoking half bowls to make sure I get to the bottom :cb - better late than never I suppose.


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## Piper (Nov 30, 2008)

Update on my original post: tried Mad Hatter's advice of raking the tobacco towards the airhole and lighting the other side -- and it worked. Stirring the embers though resulted in a mouthful of ash. I'll keep working on it. Maybe I stirred too vigorously.


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## Piper (Nov 30, 2008)

Trying to do further research on techniques for smoking to the bottom of the bowl I read that the Frank Method for filling a pipe makes it easy and enjoyable to do. I tried the Frank Method a few times but abandoned it after scorching a couple of pipes with the torch lighter he recommends. "Frankly," I can't see why a soft-flame lighter or wooden match wouldn't work almost as well as a torch without the danger of damaging your pipe. 

Do others find the Frank Method works using a soft flame and does it allow you to smoke to the bottom of the bowl?


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## seedubs1 (Dec 9, 2008)

Supposedly the Frank method just gives you a more even pack throughout the bowl. I couldn't ever figure out how to do it.

As for the torch or soft flame lighter, either should work. It's just a different method of packing the pipe.

I'd try it again with the soft flame lighter. Although, I'm not sure why you would be burning the pipe with a torch lighter. Just make sure to keep the torch not pointed at the rim.


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## Vrbas (Sep 17, 2008)

Piper said:


> What's the secret to smoking to the bottom


Puff really, really hard :SM
.
.
.
.
.
:tu


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## RJpuffs (Jan 27, 2008)

Piper said:


> Trying to do further research on techniques for smoking to the bottom of the bowl I read that the Frank Method for filling a pipe makes it easy and enjoyable to do. I tried the Frank Method a few times but abandoned it after scorching a couple of pipes with the torch lighter he recommends. "Frankly," I can't see why a soft-flame lighter or wooden match wouldn't work almost as well as a torch without the danger of damaging your pipe.
> 
> Do others find the Frank Method works using a soft flame and does it allow you to smoke to the bottom of the bowl?


There is some science behind the "Frank Fill" - it creates a compact plug with aeration around the walls (which a good cake also provides, BTW). This causes the burn to evenly spread across the whole surface on each draw/sip. The resultant inter-woven baccy results in a firm ash that doesn't suffocate the burn as it progresses lower - requiring less (or no) tamping. It also creates an evenly packed filled plug all the way to the bottom of the bowl, with a wee bit of looseness down thar which helps the draw and keeping it cool.

Its messy - I use it for some baccy/pipe combinations, and when a suitable desktop is available to make a mess upon. You don't have to use a torch - I use a butane lighter or wooden matches. Used to light with a zippo too, but the new one I got is not as good as the 20 year old one (that I killed).

The trick is to get ENOUGH baccy in on the "pinch". If you don't start with enough, it will be too loose and burn hot. Too much will not fit - you can always pick some off toward the end of the pressy-pressy-pressy spin-spin-spin. After filling, test the draw. It should be just resisting a little. If too loose/tight - dump it start over.


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## Piper (Nov 30, 2008)

RJpuffs said:


> The trick is to get ENOUGH baccy in on the "pinch". If you don't start with enough, it will be too loose and burn hot. Too much will not fit - you can always pick some off toward the end of the pressy-pressy-pressy spin-spin-spin. After filling, test the draw. It should be just resisting a little. If too loose/tight - dump it start over.


Thanks RJ. This last bit about making sure the plug is big enough is critical. I use too little and, as you predicted, it did smoke too hot. Another thing I discovered is that if the tobacco is too dry it won't form a plug as easily. It crumbles instead of staying together. Once i got it right the pipe smoked cooler and formed a nice fine, white ash. I was able to smoke to the bottom but I did have to tamp.


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## Mister Moo (Sep 8, 2005)

RJpuffs said:


> ...an evenly packed filled plug...


No more ring gauge bumps for that anymore, 'Puffs. I'm afraid you've overplayed your hand.



> Its messy -
> 
> ...The trick is to get ENOUGH baccy in on the "pinch". If you don't start with enough, it will be too loose and burn hot. Too much will not fit...


Yeah - it's a finicky thing, a good Frank fill, and it will burn to the end when done right. Fact is, I too find it messy, even though the German guy on YouTube seems to have it all neatly worked out. Practice, practice, practice, I guess. I never got the thing with using a torch - that's dumb. Granted it gives a good quick light but you better be damn well precise or you will burn a pipe in a heartbeat. It's like dancing with the devil. That sort of precision, like Porsche engines and BWM motorcycles, must be something you're born with. In Germany. Ja. Maybe it is better to smoke der Frankenpfeiffen Methodologie if you iss born first in Stuttgart, ja?


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## RJpuffs (Jan 27, 2008)

Piper said:


> Thanks RJ. This last bit about making sure the plug is big enough is critical. I use too little and, as you predicted, it did smoke too hot. Another thing I discovered is that if the tobacco is too dry it won't form a plug as easily. It crumbles instead of staying together. Once i got it right the pipe smoked cooler and formed a nice fine, white ash. I was able to smoke to the bottom but I did have to tamp.


There ya go! Easy as falling off a bovine :tu


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## RJpuffs (Jan 27, 2008)

Mister Moo said:


> No more ring gauge bumps for that anymore, 'Puffs. I'm afraid you've overplayed your hand.
> 
> Yeah - it's a finicky thing, a good Frank fill, and it will burn to the end when done right. Fact is, I too find it messy, even though the German guy on YouTube seems to have it all neatly worked out. Practice, practice, practice, I guess. I never got the thing with using a torch - that's dumb. Granted it gives a good quick light but you better be damn well precise or you will burn a pipe in a heartbeat. It's like dancing with the devil. That sort of precision, like Porsche engines and BWM motorcycles, must be something you're born with. In Germany. Ja. Maybe it is better to smoke der Frankenpfeiffen Methodologie if you iss born first in Stuttgart, ja?


Ok then* PACK PACK PACK*!

Messy it is, but them the breaks. I find some tobacco cuts to work better (ribbon, loose stuff) - rubbed out flakes are harder, besides I prefer a coarse rubout (or fold-n-stuff) on flakes since I like the slow burn quality. Forget torch lighters, wood matches are the best if one is lucky enough to be allowed to smoke indoors! As for autos, I only drive German creations now :tu


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## Mister Moo (Sep 8, 2005)

RJpuffs said:


> Ok then* PACK PACK PACK*!


Dick. Ding ding ding.


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## Vrbas (Sep 17, 2008)

I'll be serious about this one.

For me: the following criteria...

1 - *find a blend that you WANT to smoke to the bottom*. 
: a number of tobaccos have wonderful taste until the last bit where it can become ashy and unpleasant. Find that blend that holds consistent through out the entire bowl and you notice that either, the flavors improve or they stay the same (the good same). Christmas Cheer 08 did the trick for me (i tip my hat to your buzkirk).

2 - *find a blend that will LET you smoke to the bottom*.
: some tobaccos leave a bit of moister and moisten up when smoked for longer periods of time. When this happens, it's often very hard to hold a cherry or any type of "coal" as the tobacco is way too moist under the dottle. However, it also depends on how fast the tobacco burns and whether or not the bowl heats up too much. This is where you come in. Be patient and careful when smoking as not to "fire" the bowl or gurgle the pipe.


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## Piper (Nov 30, 2008)

Vrbas said:


> 1 - *find a blend that you WANT to smoke to the bottom*.
> 
> 2 - *find a blend that will LET you smoke to the bottom*.


Moral of the story: it's not about achieving some goal; it's about enjoying the experience.


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## SUOrangeGuy (Feb 22, 2006)

Just save up all that dottle, dry it out, and smoke it again like Sherlock Holmes u


On a more serious note. If you're pipe is well broken in it does a better job of keeping the tobacco dry enough to burn all the way to the bottom of the bowl.


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