# Bargain pipes?



## McFortner (May 13, 2007)

Even though I have a tight budget, I tend towards bargain pipes, e.g. basket pipes, no-names, 2nds, unfinished, and used. I don't know why, but they just seem to work as well for me, leaving a bit more money for my TAD. Does anybody else do the same? Or am I missing out by being frugal with my pipes?


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## gtechva (Mar 9, 2014)

Seems to me, some of the used pipes have a little more personality than a new one with no history or story. I guess that sounds odd or corny. I love to hear about people getting hand me down pipes. My dad smoked one years before he passed. I hadn't seen it in years and have no idea what happened to it. Would be great to find. If you can throw down a few c-notes for a new one that's great. I know there are some really great new pipes out there, but I wonder if they can smoke 10 times better than others. Of course I also like to hear people comment about having their first pipe and still smoking it after a couple of decades. The great thing about it is, to each his own. I'm with you on saving some bucks to use for more tobacco or add more pipes to the rotation.


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## swamper (Jun 10, 2013)

I have a few MM cobs and 3 pipes purchased off the for sale column here. I think used is the way to go for me.


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## Tobias Lutz (Feb 18, 2013)

I have just over 50 pipes in rotation, half of those are either Dr. Grabows, MM cobs, or other drugstore options. While I have some very nice pipes, I remain a function over form type of guy and don't find any of these classics lacking in that department.


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## freestoke (Feb 13, 2011)

I have my doubts that one needs more than a fundamentally sound drill, a sensible size, functional shape, and a comfortable stem to have a first rate tobacco burning implement. These basic requirements are pretty much met in most any premium pipe, so there is some assurance that a pipe from the higher price brackets will smoke well. In a cheaper pipe you will more likely encounter construction problems, but if you don't it should smoke fine.


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## JustTroItIn (Jan 12, 2014)

I purchased a Capri basket pipe ($25) from Pipes and Cigars. It tends to gurgle and it always leaves a pretty fair size dottle in the bottom. The gurgling doesn't really bother me and I enjoy smoking it but hate wasting the tobacco that refuses to burn.


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## cpmcdill (Jan 11, 2014)

I'm definitely in the camp of building a frugal pipe collection. For the price of a single high-end pipe, one could accumulate dozens of cobs, estates and seconds, many of which may be excellent smokers.

According to various sources I've read, new briar "drugstore" pipes are made with briar burls grown 15 years or less, whereas the same models of 50 years ago could have been constructed of briar 50-100 years of age. This is a good reason to consider estate pipes. First, you are not consuming an endangered resource (fresh briar) and second, you could get a pipe made from very old and well-seasoned briar, for cheaper than a new pipe. 

Cobs of course are infinitely renewable by comparison. Cheap, tough, smoke dry, and you won't cry if you scorch the rim of the bowl while lighting up.


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## Fuzzy (Jun 19, 2011)

Excepy for a few Dr. Grabow's and some inherited pipes. all my other pipes were estate pipes. With a little research and some googlefu, there are some great valued pipes on auction sites. Sometimes, even pennies on the dollar are found.


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## MarkC (Jul 4, 2009)

One thing to keep in mind with so-called "estate" pipes: no one ever sells their best smokers. Would you?

As to the original question, whether or not you're missing something is up to you. As for me, I think the increase in quality when going from basket pipes to Stanwells was well worth the price. I'll never go back to the cheapie pipes.


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## Mr. Motoyoshi (Mar 19, 2014)

MarkC said:


> One thing to keep in mind with so-called "estate" pipes: no one ever sells their best smokers. Would you?


I would imagine that someone has sold their best smoker to be able to buy a better smoker.


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## gtechva (Mar 9, 2014)

And from time to time someone quits smoking and sells their stuff, sometimes these come from a family selling the pipes of someone who has passed away


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## MarkC (Jul 4, 2009)

Mr. Motoyoshi said:


> I would imagine that someone has sold their best smoker to be able to buy a better smoker.


No. No one is going to sell their best smoker in order to buy another pipe. That is just not logical. If you're going to 'thin the herd', you're going to sell the pipes you like the least.


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## MarkC (Jul 4, 2009)

gtechva said:


> And from time to time someone quits smoking and sells their stuff, sometimes these come from a family selling the pipes of someone who has passed away


Yes, this would be the only way you're going to get someone's best pipes, and if it was an honest world, this would be the only type of pipe that would be labeled "estate pipe". Now, of all those I don't know how many pipes on ebay that are for sale at any given time, how many do you really think fall into this category?

Look, I'm not trying to rain on anyone's parade, I'm just saying you need to think this through.


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## cpmcdill (Jan 11, 2014)

At present, there is a wave of people quitting smoking, partly due to the heavy-handed social engineering, and partly because under the new health care act, insurance companies have been given permission to increase (possibly triple) the premiums of smokers. Between that, and the "greatest generation" coming to the ends of their lives in the past decade (along with nursing homes and retirement communities banning tobacco use), there are many nice estate pipes coming on the market. Usually when it's a "lot" it is somebody's entire collection, good and bad smokers alike. I have found some excellent smokers in estate pipe lots.


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## MarkC (Jul 4, 2009)

I'm certainly not saying you can't find nice used pipes; I've bought used pipes in the past, and I'm sure I will in the future. And, in fact, someone who has been smoking for decades would probably have pipes that they would consider expendable that would be awesome smokers in my rotation.


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## Fuzzy (Jun 19, 2011)

As a fan of BIG freehand pipes, I have been lucky to get "estate" or never smoked pipes from Nording, Stanwell, Wade, Upshall and Neerup for anywhere near 10% to 30% of the retail price.

Patience and research are needed along with a little luck. A few years back, I sold a lot ot ten used but smokeable pipes, none with a new retail price of less than two hundred bucks for three hundred. Some were smoked maybe a couple times, some needed a little cleaning/restoration.


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## BigG (Aug 13, 2010)

A significant portion of my humble pipe collection is made up of "estate" pipes, usually picked up on eBay. I do have a Dunhill, a number of Astley's (almost all made by Dunhill), and a few miscellaneous "premium" pipes, but I don't notice much difference in how the more expensive pipes smoke compared to the cheaper ones. Plus I collect WDC pipes, which haven't been made since the 70's. I also have a few corn cobs, which all are terrific smokers. The most I've ever spent on a pipe is $160 (an estate Dunhill), the least $1.30 (a Barontini Cortina that's a fabulous smoker). 
Bottom line for me - I'd rather spend my hard earned cash on pipe tobacco.


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## freestoke (Feb 13, 2011)

BigG said:


> A significant portion of my humble pipe collection is made up of "estate" pipes, usually picked up on eBay. I do have a Dunhill, a number of Astley's (almost all made by Dunhill), and a few miscellaneous "premium" pipes, but* I don't notice much difference in how the more expensive pipes smoke compared to the cheaper ones.* Plus I collect WDC pipes, which haven't been made since the 70's. I also have a few corn cobs, which all are terrific smokers. The most I've ever spent on a pipe is $160 (an estate Dunhill), the least $1.30 (a Barontini Cortina that's a fabulous smoker).
> Bottom line for me - I'd rather spend my hard earned cash on pipe tobacco.


I'm in pretty much in the same boat, with some nice estates, none of which I paid a lot for, lots of cobs. As long as the drill is good and the draw is open, it's hard to go wrong. I also think light pipes smoke better, which might be why I prefer Sasieni over Dunhill. I have a Dunhill bulldog and a Sasieni pot, both having similar amounts of wood, but the pot weighs only 33 grams, while the Dunhill weighs 42g. The Dunhill is not a comfortable smoker, primarily due to the weigh and the typically clumsy, thick stem. (I suspect that Dunhill stems are designed for people with lantern jaws and big, strong teeth. :lol


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## Branzig (Jul 14, 2013)

I don't think it is a surprise to anyone here that I am a big estate guy.

90% of my pipe collection are estates. The older the better, the briar was better and the construction flaws seemed to be farer and fewer between. As a plus, the older LHS or Brewster pipes for instance were constructed very well, had great briar and grain, and can be picked up for 10-15 bucks if you look. Sure they need some work (most of them are trashed in this price range), but once they are up and running they smoke great, and you just can't beat that price for what you're getting. ipe:


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## Mr Moustache (Apr 9, 2014)

Am right there with you, I couldn't imagine throwing down $500 on a new pipe. I'm not saying those pipes aren't worth it just that is way too rich for my blood!! I will fair just fine with cobs, dr grabows and such.

In fact, almost all of my pipes are cheapies.


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## NeverBend (Aug 29, 2009)

freestoke said:


> I have my doubts that one needs more than a fundamentally sound drill, a sensible size, functional shape, and a comfortable stem to have a first rate tobacco burning implement.


Sound technical cutting of the pipe is a must at any price. If not a first rate it will still be as good as that pipe can be.



freestoke said:


> I also think light pipes smoke better, which might be why I prefer Sasieni over Dunhill. I have a Dunhill bulldog and a Sasieni pot, both having similar amounts of wood, but the pot weighs only 33 grams, while the Dunhill weighs 42g. The Dunhill is not a comfortable smoker, primarily due to the weigh and the typically clumsy, thick stem. (I suspect that Dunhill stems are designed for people with lantern jaws and big, strong teeth. :lol


Do you keep the pipe in your mouth (_clench_)? Lighter would really suit if you do. *Dunhill *has always hand cut their stems from solid rod vulcanite but they rarely refined the stems for comfort in the mouth as *Barling *or *Ser Jacopo* did with the same or similar materials.



cpmcdill said:


> &#8230;According to various sources I've read, new briar "drugstore" pipes are made with briar burls grown 15 years or less, whereas the same models of 50 years ago could have been constructed of briar 50-100 years of age. This is a good reason to consider estate pipes. First, you are not consuming an endangered resource (fresh briar) and second, you could get a pipe made from very old and well-seasoned briar, for cheaper than a new pipe.


The age differs depending on where the briar is obtained from the inside the burl. The closer to the stem (core) the less time it has been part of the growing burl and the briar is considered inferior (usually less well grained) and correspondingly it's lower in price. Every burl has poor quality '_new_' portions.

You're correct that briar isn't a renewable resource and that's why *Algerian *blocks got smaller and smaller over time followed by other regions like *Greece*, *Liguria*, etc. A large burl takes generations to grow (50 years at a minimum) and then, if properly handled, it needs to dry/age for many more years.



MarkC said:


> One thing to keep in mind with so-called "estate" pipes: no one ever sells their best smokers. Would you?


As has been said, sadly it's not always the original smoker's choice to sell. Also, a change in tobacco type may be what the pipe needed to perform better.



Branzig said:


> &#8230;The older the better, the briar was better and the construction flaws seemed to be farer and fewer between&#8230;Sure they need some work (most of them are trashed in this price range), but once they are up and running they smoke great, and you just can't beat that price for what you're getting. ipe:


I don't know that I'd agree that the briar was better, at least not as an encompassing statement but it was more plentiful in years past and (again) in general I agree that there were fewer flaws. The '_beat up_' and heavily used pipe gives you an idea that the pipe was preferred by the previous owner. I do agree that may famous brand pipes were better made in years past but they've (again in general) gotten expensive too (often more than their new models).

If a pipe is made from _mill cut_ (interior) briar _ebauchons_ and is machine phrased and fitted with an _injection _molded bit then you essentially have a bucket pipe even if it's beautifully finished and shiny and has a recognized brand name. Don't expect these pipes to outperform their less expensive cousins.


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## freestoke (Feb 13, 2011)

Excellent post, Pete! Yes, I do clench a lot, since I tend to chain smoke; if I didn't, I'd never get anything done! :lol:


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## freestoke (Feb 13, 2011)

Mr Moustache said:


> Am right there with you, I couldn't imagine throwing down $500 on a new pipe. I'm not saying those pipes aren't worth it just that is way *too rich for my blood!! *I will fair just fine with cobs, dr grabows and such.
> 
> In fact, almost all of my pipes are cheapies.


I could smoke a $500 pipe without feeling too self-conscious about putting on airs, but I think a $2000 pipe requires a multimillion dollar estate and staff or I'd just look silly, like driving a motorcycle wearing a tux.


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## NeverBend (Aug 29, 2009)

freestoke said:


> Excellent post, Pete! Yes, I do clench a lot, since I tend to chain smoke; if I didn't, I'd never get anything done! :lol:


My smokers have my indents, even a jumbo Jacopo billiard that I 'clench'. My heirs will have to worry about buffing the marks out to sell them on eBay after I'm gone.

Jim, do you also smoke straight pipes more than bents?


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## NeverBend (Aug 29, 2009)

freestoke said:


> ... I'd just look silly, like driving a motorcycle wearing a tux.


I shouldn't wear a tux on my hog? What do I wear then? 



freestoke said:


> I could smoke a $500 pipe without feeling too self-conscious about putting on airs, but I think a $2000 pipe requires a multimillion dollar estate and staff...


On another forum there was a discussion about a Bo Nordh pipe that was being offered for $25,000. Someone replied that they set their ceiling for pipe purchases at $5,000 and for this specific pipe they might stretch to $8,000. There are reasons that some pipes are expensive (start with the high cost of quality briar) but his comment makes me think of the old adage about a fool and their money being soon parted.


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## Squints (Apr 29, 2013)

I purchased my first pipe from a pipe wall (my store's version of a pipe basket). I love it most of all because of the price and the history it now has behind it from little bumps and scrapes, to the slightly burnt rim from my first experience. I actually love the cheaper pipes because if I by some chance damage it I would not be as sad. I own a bunch of MMs and a couple baskets, but 1 really expensive that I rarely use because I am always too afraid.


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## MarkC (Jul 4, 2009)

Squints said:


> I purchased my first pipe from a pipe wall (my store's version of a pipe basket). I love it most of all because of the price and the history it now has behind it from little bumps and scrapes, to the slightly burnt rim from my first experience. I actually love the cheaper pipes because if I by some chance damage it I would not be as sad. I own a bunch of MMs and a couple baskets, but 1 really expensive that I rarely use because I am always too afraid.


I guarantee that if I lived in an area with a B&M, I'd have plenty of basket pipes. I just don't trust them without a chance to inspect them, so I won't buy them on the internet. I made that mistake once.


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## freestoke (Feb 13, 2011)

NeverBend said:


> My smokers have my indents, even a jumbo Jacopo billiard that I 'clench'. My heirs will have to worry about buffing the marks out to sell them on eBay after I'm gone.
> 
> Jim, do you also smoke straight pipes more than bents?


I do smoke straight more than bent, although I have a few bent pipes that I smoke quite a bit, including a new Ser Jacopo that an inordinately kind BOTL sent me. :smile: I just noticed a cheap Alpha Litewate in the rack that I superglued back together a couple of years ago, a small quarter-bent that clenches great, very light with a comfortable stem. Seems to smoke fine now. :tu Some pipes I call "straight" aren't really straight, though, rather eighth-bents, my 4Dot author for one. When I think "bent" my brain goes all the way to Oom Paul and starts working backwards. By the time I get to a prince, it's a straight pipe. :lol: My Forever stem is straight, though, and since a lot of my smokes are cobs, I do probably smoke more straight than bent. The Szabo is a half bent, almost the twin of the Ser Jacopo at 50% scale, and it gets almost all the neighborhood stroll work, burning hardly anything but Ennerdale, the eighth bent 4Dot author gets a lot of work, the Bari Dana is an eighth bent, as is the Savinelli 120 Anni, all among the best smokers I have.

I like a half bent for clenching, especially in a pipe as large as this Ser Jacopo, because the balancing angle is easier on the teeth. I think a full bent might be a bit much for my tastes though. Right now, some Red Cake in this Ser jacopo, which I'm beginning to enjoy immensely.


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## MarkC (Jul 4, 2009)

freestoke said:


> Some pipes I call "straight" aren't really straight, though, rather eighth-bents, my 4Dot author for one. When I think "bent" my brain goes all the way to Oom Paul and starts working backwards.


I've always wondered where various people draw the line. It seems silly to see something like a lovat, with a little downward curve to the bit, called a bent pipe.


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## NeverBend (Aug 29, 2009)

freestoke said:


> I do smoke straight more than bent, although I have a few bent pipes that I smoke quite a bit...Some pipes I call "straight" aren't really straight, though, rather eighth-bents... When I think "bent" my brain goes all the way to Oom Paul and starts working backwards. By the time I get to a prince, it's a straight pipe. :lol: My Forever stem is straight, though, and since a lot of my smokes are cobs, I do probably smoke more straight than bent...


_Shape charts_ have been created (usually by pipe manufacturers) for generations and they've succeeded in the standardization of shape so well that *Oom-Pauls* are also *Hungarians*, *Pokers *are *Cherrywoods*, *Sitters *and even *Squatters *(I guess they don't pay for pipe rack space?), and the common mistakes among *Canadians*, *Lumbermen*, *Lovats*, *Liverpools *and isn't there supposed to be a remedial course; *Pipes001:* _How to Identify a Taper bit and how it Differs from a Saddle_. There are differences (often subtle) that are supposed to define the shape but as my daddy used to preach, _language is the vehicle of communication and is therefore defined by it's use and not a book_, so what they're supposed to be and how they're commonly perceived leaves us to freely interpret.

My full bent pipes are a pair of 1/8th (if that) bent pokers. If you told me the same thing I'd think you a little daft but I too work backwards however I start with Hungarians (or *Czechs *if the *Magyars *aren't available). Shape is a variation of shape and _a rose by any other name_...

Pete


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## McFortner (May 13, 2007)

MarkC said:


> I guarantee that if I lived in an area with a B&M, I'd have plenty of basket pipes. I just don't trust them without a chance to inspect them, so I won't buy them on the internet. I made that mistake once.


None of the B&Ms near me do pipes as far as I can tell, just cigars. And expensively at that.


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