# Home Cigar Room



## n0s4atu (Apr 24, 2016)

Ok, so as I continue my trip down the rabbit hole that has seen me go from never having smoked a cigar a year ago, to now planning on converting a room to a cigar lounge, I figured there was no better place to get some help than here.

The plan is just in it's infancy, but it snowballed from selling off my pinball machines because of a potential move (and because they were virtually never played), to redoing that room with a poker table. That soon turned into well what about a cigar lounge/game room, after the first chilly night outside enjoying a cigar.

As it stands now our little home gym is going to get relocated to the storage room where my pinball machines were, opening up a nice sized room for 1 pinball machine, 1 multicade, 1 poker table, couch (or oversized lounge chairs). Should be fun and as most of our friends are more into poker and other card games it should get a lot more use as well.

My real question is about the air. The wife has not only ok'd this project, but is looking forward to it, with the caveat that the smoke not permeate the rest of the house or even the rest of the basement. Likely we'd never have more than 6 guys smoking a cigar at the same time, the room at a quick guess is 10x20. Has anyone ever heard of or used this product?
Trion SE 800E: Commercial Air Purifier & Smoke Eater - BreathePureAir.com
Quick googling led me to a Cigar Aficionado article where they mentioned the company that sells these. Seems like it would more than handle the amount of smoke we'd be putting out. One of the main reasons we're swapping the gym out of this space to make the lounge is there's a window and it's at the side of the house so a vent to the outside would be easy to run. We've already got a bulkhead there, so a contractor should easily be able to expand it by another 8" and make it look like it belongs and run a duct/fan right to the outside.
It's hard to tell but in the picture, the smith machine is between 2 bulkheads and it's where I'd put the poker table, with a Love seat/etc on the wall on the right by the window, and that would be where cigars would be enjoyed. 
From the wall on the left to the first bulkhead is 6'6", the bulkhead is 2'8" and then another 6'6" where the smith machine is to the next bulkhead.

Anyway, we're still in the spitballing stage so I figured I'd get some input, as I'd rather do it right the first time. Oh and if anyone is in the MD, DC, VA or nearby and have done this at home and recommend a contractor, please chime in. I've got a contractor who did work for the rest of the basement who I can use but if there's one that's done this specific kind of work locally, then I'd love to have them come in and take a look.

Thanks


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## Drummerguy1584 (Mar 24, 2016)

First off, let me say congrats! I'm extremely jealous that your wife is ok with that... Keep us posted on the progress!


"Only the dead have seen the end of war." -Plato


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## Yukoner (Sep 22, 2016)

I have some experience with smoking cigars indoors (it gets to -50 degreed F here and below during the winter (yes, that's a minus sign)). I've used both air purifiers that simply recirculate the air in the room as well as ones that vent air to the outside. What I can tell you is this - you definitely want to vent outside and take in fresh air from outside as well. But most, most importantly, buy twice or three times as much CFM as you think you'll need. Cigar smoke lingers for a long time, and it's a strong scent. The longer it lingers, the longer it takes to get out. I've had one of the non-exhuasting air purifiers run for DAYS and not really make any noticeable difference in the smoke smell. This was a HEPA one with carbon-activated secondary filter, not a cheapo from Walmart. You want to get the smoke out as fast as possible.

As well, if the room isn't occupied all the time, look into ozone generating appliances. If you could exhaust the smoke and change the air our quickly, as well as create ozone in the room for a period of time, that will help you keep a clean smelling room.

As for the smell moving beyond that room, my experience has been that as long as a door is closed and your home is relatively well built (not a million air gaps everywhere), you should be fine. Again, the quicker you can exhaust the smoke outside your home, the better this will be.


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## n0s4atu (Apr 24, 2016)

Yikes, 50 below is just downright scary. You'd absolutely need an indoor room if you planned to smoke at all when the winter gets like that. 

The wall where the mirrors are, is the outside wall of the house and the basement there is above ground, so my thought (not knowing much yet), is that a contractor can either break open the current bulkhead and extend it's width and reseal it with a new duct that goes right to the wall and through with the right vent to the outside. I'm hoping it's that "simple" and then it's just a question of buying the right parts for the job. I just don't know enough yet to know if the TRION above is what I want or need. 

Of course the journey to getting it all done is part of the fun too though.


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## WNYTony (Feb 12, 2014)

Yukoner said:


> I have some experience with smoking cigars indoors (it gets to -50 degreed F here and below during the winter (yes, that's a minus sign)). I've used both air purifiers that simply recirculate the air in the room as well as ones that vent air to the outside. *What I can tell you is this - you definitely want to vent outside and take in fresh air from outside as well. But most, most importantly, buy twice or three times as much CFM as you think you'll need.* Cigar smoke lingers for a long time, and it's a strong scent. The longer it lingers, the longer it takes to get out. I've had one of the non-exhuasting air purifiers run for DAYS and not really make any noticeable difference in the smoke smell. This was a HEPA one with carbon-activated secondary filter, not a cheapo from Walmart. You want to get the smoke out as fast as possible.
> 
> *As well, if the room isn't occupied all the time, look into ozone generating appliances. If you could exhaust the smoke and change the air our quickly, as well as create ozone in the room for a period of time, that will help you keep a clean smelling room.*
> 
> As for the smell moving beyond that room, my experience has been that as long as a door is closed and your home is relatively well built (not a million air gaps everywhere), you should be fine. Again, the quicker you can exhaust the smoke outside your home, the better this will be.


This is spot on advice. 
I smoke in my office-mancave whatever you want to call it. I set up an inline duct fan in the attic above the room and dropped in 2 ceiling vents. The inline fan sucks out the smoke and I crack a window for some fresh air and it pulls some from around the door and vents it outside thru a window in the attic. Being in the attic there is no noise from the fan and because of the draw it pulls air from under/around the door so no smoke smell goes outside the room. 
Then I also use an ozone ionizer to help clean and freshen the air after I'm done smoking. I usually run it for a half hour or so immediately after I'm done smoking and then have it set on a timer to turn on for an hour 3-4 other times during the night/day when we are sleeping or at work. I would not recommend the one I use (although it is very good) for that big of a room or 6 smokers as it's just not big enough. This one you've found might work well, but your focus should first and foremost be on exhaust and then freshening - like 70/30. In my opinion - don't blow the whole budget on the back end - good exhaust will mean less freshening needed.

Best of luck with it. As others have said - keep us in the loop please.

My setup is fully wife approved and it is great to be able to be enjoying a La Imperiosa as I type this out and watch the football game LOL


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## n0s4atu (Apr 24, 2016)

Thanks Tony. The more I keep reading the more it seems like having it in the basement actually makes things tougher, whereas an upper floor with access to mount things in the attic and exhaust them that way makes things more simple. I need a fairly large CFM fan it seems to clear that size room (room doesn't feel very big), but I don't want it to sound like a jet engine is on when it's working. I'll keep hunting down information and any and everyone feel free to chime in.


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## WNYTony (Feb 12, 2014)

n0s4atu said:


> Thanks Tony. The more I keep reading the more it seems like having it in the basement actually makes things tougher, whereas an upper floor with access to mount things in the attic and exhaust them that way makes things more simple. I need a fairly large CFM fan it seems to clear that size room (room doesn't feel very big), but I don't want it to sound like a jet engine is on when it's working. I'll keep hunting down information and any and everyone feel free to chime in.


Well an inline fan is somewhere between the vents and the outer exhaust point so you can tuck that above a ceiling or behind a wall and even standing in the attic it really isn't that loud. There are CFM calculators on the web, do you calculations and then go bigger lol. If I can help - feel free to PM me.


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## MyFatherFan (Feb 24, 2016)

I'm in the progress of building my smoking room in my basement right now and figured I would offer up what I came up with after talking with several people who own smoke shops or also have smoking rooms in their house.

The first thing I was advised on was that the air should be exchanged minimally 14 times per hour. I wanted to error on the side of caution so I figured 15 times an hour, or every 4 minutes for an air exchange was sufficient. Using online calculators I was able to determine the size fan required to achieve this, but also had to verify I wasn't going to create negative pressure. To prevent this I am adding a return from the basement wall to pull are from outside the room into the room. You may also need to add a fresh air run from outside into the room as well. If you have winter there, an inline heat exchanger should also be used so that you won't freeze yourself inside while trying to smoke. Definitely vent outside as others have said, but also use an air purifier afterwards just to cleanse any lingering smells.

For a 10x20 room it appears like you would be in the range of 350CFM to exchange the air every 4 minutes. I would also add multiple intake locations in the room for smoke to help clear areas simultaneously instead of pulling it all to a central location.

Good luck with your project!


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## n0s4atu (Apr 24, 2016)

Hey thanks MyFatherFan, do you have a tthread going? I'd love to follow allong with your progress. One thread I read of someone else's build, they calculated it to 1.5 mins per air exchange, meaning I'd need like a 1100 cfm fan or something like that when I did the calculations. Sounds like a lot in comparison to yours. I'm going to keep researching and waiting to hear back from the contractor. 

You're in Michigan, so are you going to be using a duct heater since I'm guessing yours will get used more in the winter as well?


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## WNYTony (Feb 12, 2014)

For what it's worth - my room is approx 9'x16' and I got a 370 cfm fan with two 6" ducts thinking it was bigger than I needed...... and if I had to do it again I would have gone a tad bigger now that I've been using it. It does a decent job but I would tweak it a little more and I'm just one guy smoking here


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## MyFatherFan (Feb 24, 2016)

n0s4atu said:


> Hey thanks MyFatherFan, do you have a tthread going? I'd love to follow allong with your progress. One thread I read of someone else's build, they calculated it to 1.5 mins per air exchange, meaning I'd need like a 1100 cfm fan or something like that when I did the calculations. Sounds like a lot in comparison to yours. I'm going to keep researching and waiting to hear back from the contractor.
> 
> You're in Michigan, so are you going to be using a duct heater since I'm guessing yours will get used more in the winter as well?


I do not have a thread going, but I'll put a pick up when I get home tonight. My room is only 11x10 and I'll run (2) 110 CFM fans. I am not adding a fresh air intake at this point in time since I have a window down there I can crack open and do not smoke that often I wasn't worried about the temperature. With it being a smaller room I figured a space heater or body heat would be fine and wouldn't be that noticeable.

Thanks @WNYTony my specs are for myself smoking, since no one else in the family smokes cigars and friends are anti-smokers.


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## WNYTony (Feb 12, 2014)

Yes, I also smoke all by my lonesome in my cigar room. Friends will join in on the golf course, but no one around here to herf with otherwise.
I'm in Western NY so we get cold and I just crack a window like an inch or so and between that and the draw under the door it pulls the air nicely without getting too cold.
For the double ducts I was able to buy a splitter so I could feed both into the same fan and that's where I think I may have lost a little productivity. I think the calculator on mine was mid to high 200's cfm and I found a good 370cfm fan, but like I said I'd probably look to 425-450 range if I knew then what I know now. 1100cfm sounds like a monster !

Overall it works well for me, the wife approves and I get to smoke inside all winter.


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## n0s4atu (Apr 24, 2016)

WNYTony said:


> For what it's worth - my room is approx 9'x16' and I got a 370 cfm fan with two 6" ducts thinking it was bigger than I needed...... and if I had to do it again I would have gone a tad bigger now that I've been using it. It does a decent job but I would tweak it a little more and I'm just one guy smoking here


Ok, have the first of two contractors coming and wanted to see if I understood:

You have 2 ceiling vents, pulling the air out, with one fan So basically like a Y where two ducts feed into one that feeds to the fan?

Is a fan returning air ideal? Or optional?

Also, with a high CFM fan, is something like a BlueAir purifier even necessary?


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## WNYTony (Feb 12, 2014)

Yes sir. Here's the links to the fan and switch I got.
The fan is a dual duct so it comes with 2 vent boxes, vent covers and the "Y" adapter - just need to buy the 6" duct (I used flexible insulated) and the piece for the window or wherever you plan to exhaust it.
Fan is above the ceiling in the attic space - switch is in the room.
In my room I have about an inch and a quarter gap at the bottom of the door and it pulls air just fine with that. During warmer months I'll crack a window as well but it's fine if not. In colder months it gets too cold to crack a window as even if it's only an inch is pulls in the cold air so fast.
So in my opinion - no fan needed to return air if you leave a gap at bottom of door or just put in a vent with a flap so it can pull from the rest of your basement if that's possible. Pulling from the outside in the winter will get cold fast so that's why guys have talked about duct heaters.

On the switch - it's made for the fan. Push the button and it comes on for 20 min at high speed and shuts off automatically. There are 2 slides on the side, bottom controls fan speed, top controls the on/off.
I'm putting a picture below so you can see it. You need to shave the outlet cover back to be able to access the slides easily, but basically the top slide all the way up turns the fan on and it runs full time. All the way down is off. Half way up the fan turns on and runs approx 30 min EACH hour. So I leave min set at about 25% up so it comes on and runs 10-15 min each hour of the day. hen I'm smoking I slide it all the way up and I usually leave it run for a bit (half hour or so) after I'm done and slide it back down. But you can always slide it down and push the button before you leave and it runs for 20 min. You may be able to just do an on/off switch but you also have to set the speed somehow - maybe your guy will know how to do that.

Fan https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003E5WAK6/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o05_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Switch https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003E5U7XS/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o05_s01?ie=UTF8&psc=1



I'm sure you'll do a better job on the cover than I did. LOL

I was able to install myself with some help from a buddy who handled the electric.

Good luck - any questions let me know but the contractor should be able to follow if you show him the link and fan and maybe he can get something higher cfm thru his contacts.


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## StogieNinja (Jul 29, 2009)

Tony, is that a variable speed fan? Also, how loud is it?


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## n0s4atu (Apr 24, 2016)

I'm glad to hear you didn't run a return line, as that seems like it would increase the cost and in my case increase the holes in the side of the house. lol Because it's the basement the wall where the mirror is is the outside wall, so I'm assuming up in the ceiling between the joists they can cut a hole to vent it, then run the ducting to the center of the room, and have the register. 

Tony, do you find that when using the gap under the door for your air that cigar smoke escapes into other parts of the house or does the fan being on eliminate that because it's pulling everything out, without letting anything escape? The wife is being really good about this whole project, with the caveat that smoke doesn't get everywhere else.

On the progress side, 2 chairs and a new couch are coming Thursday or Friday, still waiting to hear from the freight company. The flooring is here and getting installed in 2 weeks. I just need to tear out the carpet this week, now that I managed to completely empty the room. Poker table and chairs should be arriving before Thanksgiving.

Any recommendations for what kind of paint to use? I was thinking of just leaving it as it is, but if a couple coats of whatever paint will help I don't mind throwing some on the walls. 

Oh, and finally, any suggestions for smoke proofing the recessed lighting cans?


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## WNYTony (Feb 12, 2014)

StogieNinja said:


> Tony, is that a variable speed fan? Also, how loud is it?


Yes Derek - it's based on the slide control. I don't know the specs exactly on the range of speeds as I typically leave it on full speed. It's approx 3' above the floor of the attic which puts it about 9-10' above my head as I sit here typing this. If I turn off the TV and all sound I really have to listen to hear it at all. Standing in the attic I'd say it's about as loud as a typical box fan. Not anything that I would consider loud at all.



n0s4atu said:


> I'm glad to hear you didn't run a return line, as that seems like it would increase the cost and in my case increase the holes in the side of the house. lol Because it's the basement the wall where the mirror is is the outside wall, so I'm assuming up in the ceiling between the joists they can cut a hole to vent it, then run the ducting to the center of the room, and have the register.
> 
> Tony, do you find that when using the gap under the door for your air that cigar smoke escapes into other parts of the house or does the fan being on eliminate that because it's pulling everything out, without letting anything escape? The wife is being really good about this whole project, with the caveat that smoke doesn't get everywhere else.
> 
> ...


The fan is pulling air so if you put your hand down there you can feel it coming in that gap. No smoke escapes here at all, but I am smoking approx 10' away from the door. Wife has not smelled any outside of the room and totally approves. The only time I noticed any smoke escaping is when I was also running window air conditioner at the same time. Think it was forcing in enough air to cancel out the draw under door so I tossed down a pair of sweat pants (ala those college days) and problem solved.

Just to be clear - my routine is
I have a cigar every night about this time (My Father corona tonight)
I turn on the exhaust fan and run it while smoking and for a half hour to hour after (until I go to bed)
I turn on the air ionizer as I'm nubbing out my stogie and let that run for half hour to hour after (until I go to bed)
Ionizer comes on and runs for an hour a total of 4 times during the night and day while we are gone
Fan comes on for 10-15 min each hour 
Door is only closed while I'm smoking and that hour after - open the rest of the time. 
Room was a spare bedroom so right along the hall across from the bathroom and I'd hear about it if it was stinking up her favorite room lol

Here's the link to the ionizer. Was a tip from @Cigary here on Puff and I thank you very much for that kind sir !

http://www.cigarforums.net/forums/vb/general-pipe-forum/211113-air-purifier-suggestion.html

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Best-Choice-Products-SKY1057-Ionic-Air-Purifier-Ozone-Ionizer/145147330


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## n0s4atu (Apr 24, 2016)

Thanks Tony, I really appreciate all the great info you're passing along!

We've got central air that's fed into the room, assuming I have the exhaust fan going, should i be worried about smoke escaping through the HVAC ducts?


My Father, an excellent choice! I love their Le Bijou and I want to try "The Judge".


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## WNYTony (Feb 12, 2014)

n0s4atu said:


> Thanks Tony, I really appreciate all the great info you're passing along!
> 
> We've got central air that's fed into the room, assuming I have the exhaust fan going, should i be worried about smoke escaping through the HVAC ducts?
> 
> My Father, an excellent choice! I love their Le Bijou and I want to try "The Judge".


No problem at all. It has worked out very well for me and maybe it will for you.
Of course, I may need to make an inspection visit... just to make sure you've installed everything properly and all........ lol

If you have HVAC ducts coming into the room then there is probably also a return and I would definitely close or cover that when you're herfing or it will be drawing smoke out.


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## csk415 (Sep 6, 2016)

If there is no return wouldn't the gap under the door serve that purpose? The HVAC may have a stronger pull than a exhaust vent and draw the smoke under the door?


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## WNYTony (Feb 12, 2014)

csk415 said:


> If there is no return wouldn't the gap under the door serve that purpose? The HVAC may have a stronger pull than a exhaust vent and draw the smoke under the door?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


By no means an HVAC expert but as far as I know the unit has to draw air in from either a return or surrounding area so unless the unit itself is outside the door I wouldn't think it would pull smoke from the room.

In fact now that I think of it I have a return in this room and it hasn't been an issue with either air or heat. Return is near floor and exhaust is in ceiling and I tend to blow smoke up.


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## csk415 (Sep 6, 2016)

I don't have return vents in my rooms. If you stand by a closed door you can feel the air sucking out of the room. I'm no expert either which is why I asked. 


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## n0s4atu (Apr 24, 2016)

WNYTony said:


> No problem at all. It has worked out very well for me and maybe it will for you.
> Of course, I may need to make an inspection visit... just to make sure you've installed everything properly and all........ lol
> 
> If you have HVAC ducts coming into the room then there is probably also a return and I would definitely close or cover that when you're herfing or it will be drawing smoke out.


I will double check, but the room itself has at least one duct coming in for ac/heat, but the return for the system as far as I know is in a whole different part of the basement in the room with the unit itself.

Either way, easy enough to shut the one or two registers and put one of those magnetic pieces across it to more completely seal it. Couple more hours the contractor should be here to give me his thoughts.

I'm thinking the Broan L1500 should be about right for the size room I've got. I'm just not sure if that size fan directly above where we'll be herfing is going to be obnoxiously loud. The downside to a basement install I suppose is you can't run things into the attic and have many feet of space between you and the fan motor itself.


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## StogieNinja (Jul 29, 2009)

@WNYTony, so was the system designed to require two intakes? Does that hinder the effectiveness at all?


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## n0s4atu (Apr 24, 2016)

Ok, they're going to get me an estimate early next week. Contractor seems to think since there are two bulkheads and two area's where smoking may happen, that two fans would be more effective and also reduce the amount of noise by splitting the CFMs between two fans. Hopefully the estimate won't be too horrific.


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## Champagne InHand (Sep 14, 2015)

WNYTony said:


> No problem at all. It has worked out very well for me and maybe it will for you.
> 
> Of course, I may need to make an inspection visit... just to make sure you've installed everything properly and all........ lol
> 
> If you have HVAC ducts coming into the room then there is probably also a return and I would definitely close or cover that when you're herfing or it will be drawing smoke out.


Damn Tony. I might have to sneak down to your place for a smoke and to see your set up this Winter. My wife can go play around with the Bonnie's.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## WNYTony (Feb 12, 2014)

StogieNinja said:


> @WNYTony, so was the system designed to require two intakes? Does that hinder the effectiveness at all?


The particular fan I bought came with the Y and two vent boxes, but the fan itself is a big round unit that you hook ducting to top and bottom. The Y piece fits just like a single duct but splits it into two, so yes I would imagine you may lose a little efficiency but I wouldn't think alot. If I remember correctly I went about 1.5 times the cfm calculation. I liked the design because I could locate one vent directly over my desk (where I sit and smoke) and the other between there and the door - like a primary and secondary.



Champagne InHand said:


> Damn Tony. I might have to sneak down to your place for a smoke and to see your set up this Winter. My wife can go play around with the Bonnie's.
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Standing invite - just not on game day !

Was telling the wife about this thread tonight on the way to granddaughter's soccer game and she says definitely wife approved by this wife. She says she can get a little smell after a night where I have a particularly strong cigar or don't give it like an hour after I'm done smoking but it clears quickly as both unit run some during the day.

Got home too late (11:00) tonight for anything big so it's just a Jericho Hill Shot so I leave some back end time to clear lol


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## n0s4atu (Apr 24, 2016)

Couch and chairs showed up. The chairs are slightly more oversized than I realized. Look comfy though. I'll get the carpet torn out next week, then the flooring will go in the week after that. Coming along slowly but surely. Hopefully I get some good news from the contractor as far as pricing goes. 

If you would have told me just over a year ago that I'd spend more than a couple hundred bucks on cigars I'd have laughed at you. Slippery slope indeed.


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## StogieNinja (Jul 29, 2009)

WNYTony said:


> If I remember correctly I went about 1.5 times the cfm calculation.


So, you went 50% over calculation and still wish you had gone with even more?

Also, how loud is your fan? Can you listen to music or watch TV comfortably with the fan on? Is it disruptive at all?


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## WNYTony (Feb 12, 2014)

StogieNinja said:


> So, you went 50% over calculation and still wish you had gone with even more?
> 
> Also, how loud is your fan? Can you listen to music or watch TV comfortably with the fan on? Is it disruptive at all?


Yes - but not a whole bunch. Maybe to 400 or 425. I think the calculator just plans for moving air and not moving cigar smoke so as long as it's not sucking papers off my desk or anything....
Seriously - cannot hear the fan at all. If I tun off everything in this room and sit in the quiet (and that's what I need to do if I want to hear that it's on) I can hear it faintly but that's basically thru the vents.
That's how I know when it starts - when I hear the vent flaps move.


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## n0s4atu (Apr 24, 2016)

Well, still waiting to hear back from the contractor with an estimate. In the meantime, I used some credit card points and picked up a Blueair 505 and Smokestop filters. Figured it might make a good one two punch once the exhaust fans are in. Monday the new flooring goes in, so I have to pull the carpet this weekend. Once the floors are in I will seal the doors and wait on the exhaust fans.

Edit: I haven't actually used the Blueair yet, but paired it with my phone and got it all set up and tested it out. Holy crap is it loud on high. Now, on medium it's barely noticeable, but high it sounds like it might take off. lol I will likely leave it running on medium when we're firing up sticks and when we're done in there for the night, set it up to high. I think I can set it to run for a specified period, but it's nice that I can also just turn it off with my phone from anywhere.


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## Westside Threat (Oct 25, 2016)

Keep the photos coming :smile2:


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## n0s4atu (Apr 24, 2016)

Westside Threat said:


> Keep the photos coming :smile2:


I was hoping to have the flooring and the ventilation going in around the same time, but that's obviously not happening so rather than keep the rest of the basement cluttered up, I'm going to put in the couch, chairs, and will just pull it all out when I get the ventilation figured out. I'll get pics as it goes along. 
So outside of the ventilation I'm still waiting on my poker table and chairs (hopefully shipping next week) and the TV for the room. 
Black Friday Sale at Costco starts next Friday so a nice big TV will be getting put up, but again I was hoping to have the ventilation and paint done by then. Now I'll have to pull it down when they come to do that. 
Hopefully the end result will be worth it, because even though it's only fall, sitting out on the back deck was nice, until the sun dropped last night then it started to get cold. Might just have to "test" the Blueair next week once I've sealed the doors. For research purposes only of course, do determine if smoke is leaking out of the room anywhere.


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## CigarZenRob (Nov 9, 2016)

Love seeing other cigar rooms and cigar room plans! I have my own that CigarDojo actually just featured here.

In terms of air quality, I use the Sharp KC-860U purifier which is really good in its quiet mode. Also have a Dyson fan running.

I'm up in Canada so I probably can't help with the contractor suggestion. Just make sure that whoever you get fully understands your plan and the feel you want with that room.

Good luck! Hoping to see some updates.


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## n0s4atu (Apr 24, 2016)

So, I had a second contractor come in, because I figured since the first one is so busy I might as well get more than one estimate, even though I've used and really liked the first contractor before. Anyway, super nice guy, even enjoys himself a nice cigar from time to time. I explained what I was thinking and he immediately tells me I can't vent it out the side of my house because of the way the joists run, or rather I can, but it's far easier to run with the joists and go out the back. Ok, I suppose nobody is going to be back there if it's cold enough where I want to smoke a cigar inside, so no big deal. He's also an electrician and not a contractor, so while they'll put up a piece of drywall where the cut it, etc, finishing it would be my responsibility. That actually works for me, since I've cut enough holes in drywall running coax, etc to be able to do that on at least a small scale and I figured it'll save me a few bucks in the end, even if it costs me a weekend of my time. I show him the math, which indicates that I need about 1000-1200CFM, which admittedly as I calculated is a metric butt ton. I was thinking about running 2 broan L700L's, but figured one would likely be sufficient, 700CFM is a lot. 

Anyway, this morning he gets back to me and tells me that the L700L won't fit where I need it to go,I checked the measurements are (17x26x16) and he recommended the Panasonic FV-40VQ4, which is a 380 CFM bathroom fan (22.3 x 18.4 x 15.5). 

In my own head I'd already made a concession to go from 1400CFM to 700CFM, but when I say I want a 700CFM fan and you recommend one that's basically half that? My Blueair 505 moves more air than that all by itself (450cfm smoke). I think this guy is really nice and not trying to be a dick or condescending, but since he's never done a cigar room (not that I have), I just think he thinks that'll do since by normal standards 380CFM is quite a bit. 

I'm just not going to move forward with a fan that won't do the job the way I want it done. With a variable speed control even if I over power it, I can adjust for that and keep it running on medium and then crank it when we're done for the night and run it at full blast for a while with the blueair. I can't turn the Panasonic up to 11 and make it produce more CFM. So, now I'll wait until the first guy gets back to me by Friday I was told.

I will be "experimenting" in there this weekend with a little window fan and my Blueair. I will be installing the new TV Friday with any luck, so the room will only be waiting on the new poker table, and of course proper ventilation. 

Oh and a quick shot after I'd pulled up all the carpet and the guys laid the floor. I'm actually standing by the window, facing towards where the poker table will be. I've already put the couch, chairs and rug back in, but I'll wait until I get the TV hung to post pics of that space (hooray for Black Friday deals at Costco). 
Today I'm sealing up the doors. There's no return in the room, the doors are gapped about 2", so sealing them is critical.


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## n0s4atu (Apr 24, 2016)

Ok, any HVAC experts or at least someone with more knowledge than me know why if I'm running between joists that are 24 or so inches apart and the inline fan fits, why I'm being told the fan isn't any good because I have to run 6" duct work? The fan isn't right because it's more for "commercial" applications. Well it's not a bathroom either, but that's the size fan they want to install. 
Is there any reason why an HVAC sized duct of 8x8 or 8x10 isn't ok to install? Some of the ducting in the one unfinished room is 10x20 and another 10x16. 

Sorry, for venting, but damn I want this room done so I can start enjoying it. lol


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## StogieNinja (Jul 29, 2009)

n0s4atu said:


> Sorry, for venting...


:drum:


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## n0s4atu (Apr 24, 2016)

StogieNinja said:


> :drum:


I'm here all week folks. lol


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## WNYTony (Feb 12, 2014)

n0s4atu said:


> Ok, any HVAC experts or at least someone with more knowledge than me know why if I'm running between joists that are 24 or so inches apart and the inline fan fits, why I'm being told the fan isn't any good because I have to run 6" duct work? The fan isn't right because it's more for "commercial" applications. Well it's not a bathroom either, but that's the size fan they want to install.
> Is there any reason why an HVAC sized duct of 8x8 or 8x10 isn't ok to install? Some of the ducting in the one unfinished room is 10x20 and another 10x16.
> 
> Sorry, for venting, but damn I want this room done so I can start enjoying it. lol


Not in any way an expert, but any time I've seen ducts that big they are usually cold air returns. 
I would think you just need to match the ductwork with the unit. 6" coming off the unit should be consistent thru to the vent - not 6" expanding to 8" or 10" I would thin that wouldn't push the air thru because it's filling out the space.

Again, not an expert, but an inline fan can be located anywhere in the run as far as I know. In other word - possibly you could locate it closer to the vent itself and let it pull the air thru ? So maybe if no room directly above - a soffit or box against the wall to conceal the fan ? Just a thought


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## n0s4atu (Apr 24, 2016)

WNYTony said:


> Not in any way an expert, but any time I've seen ducts that big they are usually cold air returns.
> I would think you just need to match the ductwork with the unit. 6" coming off the unit should be consistent thru to the vent - not 6" expanding to 8" or 10" I would thin that wouldn't push the air thru because it's filling out the space.
> 
> Again, not an expert, but an inline fan can be located anywhere in the run as far as I know. In other word - possibly you could locate it closer to the vent itself and let it pull the air thru ? So maybe if no room directly above - a soffit or box against the wall to conceal the fan ? Just a thought


Well apparently the Broan L700L is a behemoth, here's a page from the instruction sheet I found on their site, showing installation. I also found a Dayton inline fan that produces 737 CFM and is rated at 2.5 sones. I believe this one is 3 or 3.5 at max output, which obviously I wouldn't be able to run it at while I'm in there if I wanted to hear the tv or talk to someone:


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## WNYTony (Feb 12, 2014)

n0s4atu said:


> Well apparently the Broan L700L is a behemoth, here's a page from the instruction sheet I found on their site, showing installation. I also found a Dayton inline fan that produces 737 CFM and is rated at 2.5 sones. I believe this one is 3 or 3.5 at max output, which obviously I wouldn't be able to run it at while I'm in there if I wanted to hear the tv or talk to someone:


Wow - 10" ducts. Guess so. I was thinking of you box it into the ceiling/wall you may not notice the noise but now that I see it I'm worried about the vibration of the house !


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## n0s4atu (Apr 24, 2016)

Well, just got a quote in from the electrician who wants to use the Panasonic fan, he's actually going to run 2, one over each area, in parallel on a variable speed switch. Two of them makes me feel better about it, since that's nearly 800CFM total. Price $2200 and I get to do my own finishing of the drywall and painting. Seems pricey, but what do I know. They'll put up patch panels, but I have to tape it off and repaint. I'd planned to paint anyway so that's not a big deal.

Thoughts on two of those guys going in? The contractor who came in first is still MIA, but hopefully he'll get me a quote today. Although if the electrician wants to charge $2200 for a bare bones install I can't imagine what a contractor will want to charge for one including finishing with paint.


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## UBC03 (Nov 18, 2015)

n0s4atu said:


> Well, just got a quote in from the electrician who wants to use the Panasonic fan, he's actually going to run 2, one over each area, in parallel on a variable speed switch. Two of them makes me feel better about it, since that's nearly 800CFM total. Price $2200 and I get to do my own finishing of the drywall and painting. Seems pricey, but what do I know. They'll put up patch panels, but I have to tape it off and repaint. I'd planned to paint anyway so that's not a big deal.
> 
> Thoughts on two of those guys going in? The contractor who came in first is still MIA, but hopefully he'll get me a quote today. Although if the electrician wants to charge $2200 for a bare bones install I can't imagine what a contractor will want to charge for one including finishing with paint.


My buddy said he's gonna take a look. He's been swamped at work he said.

Sent from my SM-G925V using Tapatalk


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## n0s4atu (Apr 24, 2016)

UBC03 said:


> My buddy said he's gonna take a look. He's been swamped at work he said.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G925V using Tapatalk


Thanks! The more eyes on the project the better. I really appreciate you asking for your buddy's input! If I can ever get the project done and you're ever in the Frederick area you'll have to let me know and come and check it out. That goes for anyone on the forum frankly. Any excuse to fire up a good cigar seems like a good one. Plus it would be for "scientific" purposes.

And not related to your post, I finally tracked down the information and those Panasonic fans can't be controlled with a variable speed switch. I don't know how loud 3 sones is, it's likely not super loud, but not being able to dial it back if I want or if it's just me in there is a sticking point. I'm flexible on a lot and willing to make some concessions, but not being able to really control the fans is a tough pill to swallow.

I wish the contractor would get back to me, he's done great work for us before, but damn I don't want to be a nag and have to beg for an estimate.


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## Yukoner (Sep 22, 2016)

Hrmmmmmmmmmm....... I know from bathroom renos in my own home, I don't trust those stupid CFM numbers and what they "recommend" for sizing. If I recall correctly, 380 CFM is the rating for one of our bathrooms, and it doesn't remove a lot of moisture to be honest. A hot 20min shower and you're walking around in fog for a while afterwards. I definitely stick by my original statement that more CFM is better. Also, the more money you spent on the fan itself, the better the quality, construction and ultimately noise and vibration. Our downstairs bathroom got a more expensive exhaust fan and it is rated the same CFM as upstairs but is, maybe half as noisy ? It's just my opinion, but I'd go higher CFM, as high as your physical space will allow you to go. And if it were me, I'd have to have variable speed as an option. You want to be able to adjust it, not for CFM, but for noise.


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## n0s4atu (Apr 24, 2016)

Yukoner said:


> Hrmmmmmmmmmm....... I know from bathroom renos in my own home, I don't trust those stupid CFM numbers and what they "recommend" for sizing. If I recall correctly, 380 CFM is the rating for one of our bathrooms, and it doesn't remove a lot of moisture to be honest. A hot 20min shower and you're walking around in fog for a while afterwards. I definitely stick by my original statement that more CFM is better. Also, the more money you spent on the fan itself, the better the quality, construction and ultimately noise and vibration. Our downstairs bathroom got a more expensive exhaust fan and it is rated the same CFM as upstairs but is, maybe half as noisy ? It's just my opinion, but I'd go higher CFM, as high as your physical space will allow you to go. And if it were me, I'd have to have variable speed as an option. You want to be able to adjust it, not for CFM, but for noise.


Yeah, I agree with you. The Panasonic is pretty quiet, but it can't be turned down or up. I'm still not quite sure why if the space between the joist is approximately 24", why the fan I picked (and actually found one rated slightly higher CFM that's only 2.5 sones by Dayton) won't fit, even if you have to run a 10" went tube. I suspect that because they have likely done tons of bathroom fans, that's what they want to do again. 
Plus, $1200 for labor seems high to me when I'm the one who's finishing the dry wall work. What do I know though. Never did get the estimate from the one contractor. Monday I'm going to send him one last reminder. After that the project will just sit on the back burner likely until the new year. I just don't have the time to be chasing down contractors and hoping they'll take my money if I ask really nice.

On the positive end, my poker table shipped and will be here a week from Monday and I picked up my tv yesterday at Costco. Today if I can get some yard work done and have the energy I'll mount that. Soon as that's done I will likely see if the Blueair is worth the money. Hell for the money the electrician wanted to charge I could just pick up 3 more Blueairs and still come out on top and just litter the room with them one for each wall. lol

Edit:
Here's a silly question; if a window fan is rated at 1400CFM and I have a window in the room why wouldn't this option work better than spending $2k on someone to install something that's rated at 390CFM?
I mean aside from the aesthetic one and one being permanent. I'm talking simply from the perspective of moving smoke out.


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## csk415 (Sep 6, 2016)

Have you thought about going with the industrial look. Exposed duct and fan. Panted or not. Hurricane inline fans would look fine if left exposed. Just a thought. Install should be less expensive. What is in your bulk heads?

Home | Hurricane Fans


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## Yukoner (Sep 22, 2016)

csk might be into something with exposed ducting. If you do it right, you could make it look pretty good with your decor. 

I hear you on begging contractors to try and take your money. We all know what the economy is like (in both Canada and the USA for that matter), and you have this much of a problem trying to pay someone good money to do work ? Look for another contractor. This happened to me when we tried to reno our upstairs bathroom. The contractor we wanted to use just didn't return phone calls or messages. Waited three weeks before we decided to find someone else. It worked out really well actually, the person who we ended up contracting to do the work did a really good job and we haven't had any issues at all. I know it's nice to use someone you know and might have used before in the past, but don't use that as an excuse to allow yourself to accept, quite frankly, shit service. Not getting back to you is rude, period. 

As for the window fan, what you'll find is because smoke rises, it isn't going to exhaust all of it. In order to get smoke to draw down (down-draft), you need some REALLY powerful fans creating a negative pressure in the room. Higher end autobody shops have what are called down-draft bays for painting cars, so overspray and contaminants are pulled down as opposed to getting on fresh paint. Also you get the issue that the room will lose all its heat very quickly because cold air will come in. 

I know your anxiety in getting this going, I have the same state of mind when I'm on a project that I want to get done. But, my personal opinion, stick with variable speed, more CFM than you think you'll need, and get up near the ceiling, whether exposed ducting or in-ceiling. You're going to be much happier with the end result than putting in a window fan or going with something inferior just to get it done quicker.


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## n0s4atu (Apr 24, 2016)

I'm not sure how the wife would feel about the exposed ducting, but when I talk to the next contractor, I'll absolutely mention it. My thought was that tucked up behind drywall it would at least provide some sound dampening. 

I have the little window fan until then, but I'm definitely not going to rush it and have an install done that I'm just not 100% thrilled about, because all that would achieve is me being mad every time I fire up a cigar and who needs that. And actually it will be at the top of the window, because the top slides down (in addition to the bottom going up like normal). I'll just take my time and find a contractor who "gets" what I'm going for and will make it happen the way I want it done, not the way that's easiest for them.

Edit:Apparently I forgot to hit post before I went down and worked a bit more down there. So, the doors are sealed pretty damn well now. If not for needing to hang the TV and the soundbar arriving Monday I'd "test" out the Blueair tonight.


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## Yukoner (Sep 22, 2016)

n0s4atu said:


> I'm not sure how the wife would feel about the exposed ducting, but when I talk to the next contractor, I'll absolutely mention it. My thought was that tucked up behind drywall it would at least provide some sound dampening.
> 
> I have the little window fan until then, but I'm definitely not going to rush it and have an install done that I'm just not 100% thrilled about, because all that would achieve is me being mad every time I fire up a cigar and who needs that. And actually it will be at the top of the window, because the top slides down (in addition to the bottom going up like normal). I'll just take my time and find a contractor who "gets" what I'm going for and will make it happen the way I want it done, not the way that's easiest for them.


Very true, the wife factor is, well, a big factor !

Glad you'll take the time and find someone who will do it the way you want. I've done stuff the cheap / quick / whatever way instead of how I really wanted to, and regretted it each time. And you're exactly right, you don't want to be annoyed every time you sit down to enjoy a stick.


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## n0s4atu (Apr 24, 2016)

Never did hear back from the contractor, but it's just about Thanksgiving, so I'm not worrying about it. Here's the room as it sits now. All that's left is paint, rehanging one mirror to match the one by the couches and well of course a powerful ventilation system to handle the smoke. 

Friday I'm going to finally test the Blueair and the window fan. The window in the pic slides down at the top so I've got the fan ready to test. Hopefully the combo will do a good enough job until I can get a professional, permanent solution. I'd really hoped to be playing poker tomorrow and firing up some cigars, but the cigars will have to be done on the porch, until I get the ventilation solved.

I'm just glad I have an awesome wife who tolerates my hobbies and actually enjoys them right along with me. Happy Thanksgiving all.


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## MyFatherFan (Feb 24, 2016)

Looks awesome!!


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## Yukoner (Sep 22, 2016)

Those chairs just scream smoking room ! Love the furniture and layout. I wish I had this in my home.


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## UBC03 (Nov 18, 2015)

Looks great bro. One question, with a name like nosferatu what's the point of a mirror. Is it just for guests?

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## n0s4atu (Apr 24, 2016)

MyFatherFan said:


> Looks awesome!!


 Thanks! Its been fun putting it together but man do I want it finished so I can start really enjoying it.

I will be reviewing the Blueair after putting it through its paces.


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## StogieNinja (Jul 29, 2009)

You're so money, baby.


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## n0s4atu (Apr 24, 2016)

UBC03 said:


> Looks great bro. One question, with a name like nosferatu what's the point of a mirror. Is it just for guests?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G925V using Tapatalk


 lol The mirror actually lets the person with their back to the TV watch TV.


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## WNYTony (Feb 12, 2014)

That is one baller cigar lounge ! 
We're going to need a pic with the boys at the table, all burning a good smoke, just to get the real feel of it......


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## Yukoner (Sep 22, 2016)

Saw this in Cigar Affic: https://www.rabbitair.com/pages/air-purifier-smoke

No idea if it's any good or not, but thought I'd pass it along.


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## n0s4atu (Apr 24, 2016)

Yukoner, the Rabbit Air got a really good review, I forget where, so I may give it a shot. 

What I can tell you is the Blueair 505 experiment was an absolute fail. Wife was kind enough to go down with me after all the company had finally left and we'd recovered our energy and she fired up a Monte 4 and I fired up a Tatuaje Jackal around midnight, finished up around 1-1:30. The Blueair was on medium the entire time, upon finishing up I cranked it to high and we headed upstairs. By 3:30 when I was ready for bed I went down to see how the room was and it still smelled of cigars. Feeling a bit let down by a $700 (almost $900 with the smokestop filters), I let it run full blast and went to bed. I went down just a few minutes ago (so 4 more hours) and it still smells like a cigar bar. So the fine folks of Costco are getting a visit from me today. 

The Blueair 505 is designed for a room up to 700sqft. Mine is under 300. The air volume in the room is somewhere around 1800sqft with the smokestop filters it's supposed to go 450CFM, so within 5 minutes technically it should have cleaned the air. That's likely unrealistic, but more than 6 hours? To me that's a fail and so it goes back. 
I can also say that the little window fan that claimed 1400CFM felt more like 140CFM as you could barely tell it was pulling air from anything over 12 inches away. Considering it was about $30 bucks, while that's a fail too, it's way easier to take.

To finish with something that did go right, the job I did sealing the doors worked like a charm there was no noticeable smoke penetration outside the room. So hooray for small victories.


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## Yukoner (Sep 22, 2016)

n0s4atu said:


> Yukoner, the Rabbit Air got a really good review, I forget where, so I may give it a shot.
> 
> What I can tell you is the Blueair 505 experiment was an absolute fail. Wife was kind enough to go down with me after all the company had finally left and we'd recovered our energy and she fired up a Monte 4 and I fired up a Tatuaje Jackal around midnight, finished up around 1-1:30. The Blueair was on medium the entire time, upon finishing up I cranked it to high and we headed upstairs. By 3:30 when I was ready for bed I went down to see how the room was and it still smelled of cigars. Feeling a bit let down by a $700 (almost $900 with the smokestop filters), I let it run full blast and went to bed. I went down just a few minutes ago (so 4 more hours) and it still smells like a cigar bar. So the fine folks of Costco are getting a visit from me today.
> 
> ...


This is what I was worried about. All those CFM ratings are, well, bullshit. You need to like triple or quadruple the CFM you think you need, and go from there. Even more if you can.

Also, you might want to look at ionization or ozone generation for the lingering smell. The smoke can be removed from the room, but some of the particles will have fallen on furniture, floor, etc. This is similar to what happens when someone smokes cigarettes in a car (I used to own an automotive detail shop). Removing smoke, permanently, is quite the process. With the car completely closed and HVAC on re-circ, you throw in an odour bomb which is an aerosol can that disperses a wet fog throughout the interior. Wait 30min. Then open all doors for 30min and air out. Then vacuum everything, scrub all the vinyl and plastics, then carpet shampoo all the upholstery. Let that dry, and the final step is ozone generation. It depends on the size of the car and the extent of the smoke damage, but it's anywhere from a few hours to overnight with the ozone generator. Here's an example of one: Auto Ozone Generator

What you would ideally do, IMO, would be to put one of these ozone generators on a timer. That way, when you're done for the night, it can run for a few hours, along with your exhaust fan going. I think this will produce the "clean" smelling effect you're looking for. And just like the exhaust fans, get a larger ozone generator than you think you'll need.

Do keep in mind that ozone isn't necessarily "healthy" for you when it's being produced, so as I said above, this would be for use when you're done with the room for the night.


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## WNYTony (Feb 12, 2014)

n0s4atu said:


> To finish with something that did go right, the job I did sealing the doors worked like a charm there was no noticeable smoke penetration outside the room. So hooray for small victories.


Sorry to hear about the fails, but at least you got to have a cigar indoors with the wife and the odor stayed contained.

You need the exhaust and I agree about the ionizer on a timer.
You'll get there.


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## StogieNinja (Jul 29, 2009)

Do you have any air coming in? Even a really good fan is going to struggle to move air out of a sealed room.


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## csk415 (Sep 6, 2016)

StogieNinja said:


> Do you have any air coming in? Even a really good fan is going to struggle to move air out of a sealed room.


Thinking the same thing. This might work to allow some air into room. 
https://keenhome.io/

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## Yukoner (Sep 22, 2016)

The problem with bringing air in from outside, while an excellent idea, will cause dramatic temperature drop during the wintertime. The heating bill might get a bit $$$ by doing this.....


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## csk415 (Sep 6, 2016)

Not a air circulation expert by no means. I just don't see how a sealed off room will be smoke smell free. Even if you have a purifier. It's just circulating the same air. Plus it gives the smoke time to adhere to surfaces. It just seems to me that the only true effective way is fresh air in and smoke air out. Fresh air can be drawn from another room in basement and smokey air sent outside. Faster the smoke is expelled the less smell. Sucks to have to deal with he issue and not being able to find someone to put in exhaust fans. You would think with winter coming contractors would jump at a inside job. Hope you get it figured out. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Yukoner (Sep 22, 2016)

csk415 said:


> Not a air circulation expert by no means. I just don't see how a sealed off room will be smoke smell free. Even if you have a purifier. It's just circulating the same air.


Exactly. What's needed is exhaust to remove the larger particles (what we humans see as "the smoke"), and an ozone generator or ionizer to, basically, "destroy" the rest of the smoke that isn't removed from the room. You can sanitize a sealed room without adding in fresh air, but simple air purifiers just won't do it. I would argue that even adding in fresh air constantly wouldn't solve the issue. Think of cars that have been smoked in yet the smoker always had a window open...... car will still smell like smoke.


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## n0s4atu (Apr 24, 2016)

csk415 said:


> Not a air circulation expert by no means. I just don't see how a sealed off room will be smoke smell free. Even if you have a purifier. It's just circulating the same air. Plus it gives the smoke time to adhere to surfaces. It just seems to me that the only true effective way is fresh air in and smoke air out. Fresh air can be drawn from another room in basement and smokey air sent outside. Faster the smoke is expelled the less smell. Sucks to have to deal with he issue and not being able to find someone to put in exhaust fans. You would think with winter coming contractors would jump at a inside job. Hope you get it figured out.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yes, my game plan was to have the exhaust fans installed and allow air to be pulled in from the window being opened a few inches or if it was simply too cold doing that, to slide out the rubber sweep to allow air to be drawn in under the door.

I made the mistake of assuming the CFM on a window fan would even approach what it was claimed to be. I actually am convinced there was a typo and it wasn't 1400CFM, but should have read 140CFM. I do however know that until I get a professional in here to do the job right, I won't be smoking in there. I've been running the Blueair nonstop since Saturday night and it still smells of smoke. This morning I opened the window put the little fan in to bring air in and I'll just open one of the doors in the basement, the smell isn't awful, but it's still there, so hopefully with better circulation I'll get it all out.

Even with the blunders on my part, I either expected too much from the Blueair or it's just not that great and I can think of far better uses for that money. Seems like the best combo is likely high CFM exhaust fans to the outside and some kind of ozone machine when the room is emptied out.

I've seen videos with things like the "Smoke Stomper", that are like the Blueair, and nothing else, but I can't imagine any one of them will just clean all the smoke out of the air even with the best filter. This failed experiment convinced me that there are only 2 real solutions, the best of which is to just smoke outside and eliminate the problem all together, and barring that get a professional in to do the job right. Half measures produce half results. No smoke outside the room and I'm sure it's better than had I just smoked without the blueair, but if you want to be able to share the room with non-cigar smoking people it's definitely not the right solution.


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## n0s4atu (Apr 24, 2016)

Ok, because I am a glutton for punishment and I feel like I messed everything up by not having enough return air coming in, I am going to give it one more shot because well it's cold out and like I said I'm a glutton for punishment. lol

New plan, one window fan at the top of the window on exhaust mode (this one is larger than the so called 1400CFM one), then the 1400CFM one pulling air into the room at the bottom of the window. I still have time to return the Blueair, so I'm going to run it at the same time, giving it a decent amount of fresh air. So one pulling the smokey air out at the top and another bringing fresh air in. As a backup I can also open the bathroom door and let air be drawn in from the rest of the basement, but what I don't want is the smoke escaping. That would not go over well. 

I opened up the doors, lit a nice Yankee Candle and have the Blueair chugging away. Seems to be back to normal (only took 3 days). Apparently creating a cross draft is pretty damn important and well the Blueair helps I guess, but it certainly doesn't clean the air magically like I thought it would. lol

Oh and I'm going to pester the original contractor I had come in and I'm looking for another currently.


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## csk415 (Sep 6, 2016)

Trial and error. Hope you figure it out. 


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## MyFatherFan (Feb 24, 2016)

Just make sure the smoke is getting far enough way from the incoming air flow. Think of it like a high efficiency furnace, the exhaust pipe is always at least 12-16" farther out from the incoming fresh air so the exhaust (smoke in your case) won't get pulled back in. Doing it with a top and bottom could create a vortex outside your window and your smoke may circulate instead of escaping.

Good luck in your experiment. I've been following your thread to see how this all works out for you.

Here is a picture of my room currently, I realized I never did post it after I mentioned doing so. French doors is where the fresh air comes in from the rest of the basement through those gaps. Large opening is for the window that I am having cut right now to size. Exhaust fan is above the sewing table, going to try just one since the room size is only 9x11 with an average height of 6' 7" ceiling.


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## n0s4atu (Apr 24, 2016)

MyFatherFan said:


> Just make sure the smoke is getting far enough way from the incoming air flow. Think of it like a high efficiency furnace, the exhaust pipe is always at least 12-16" farther out from the incoming fresh air so the exhaust (smoke in your case) won't get pulled back in. Doing it with a top and bottom could create a vortex outside your window and your smoke may circulate instead of escaping.
> 
> Good luck in your experiment. I've been following your thread to see how this all works out for you.
> 
> Here is a picture of my room currently, I realized I never did post it after I mentioned doing so. French doors is where the fresh air comes in from the rest of the basement through those gaps. Large opening is for the window that I am having cut right now to size. Exhaust fan is above the sewing table, going to try just one since the room size is only 9x11 with an average height of 6' 7" ceiling.


That's going to be really nice. I love the big picture window. It reminds me of Ryan Deyer's original room. For anyone who doesn't know who that is, when I googled around, he's got a whole site dedicated to the building of his 2 cigar rooms and that's where I learned about the Broan L700 I wanted to use.

I'm thinking just to be safe, open the bathroom door and let it draw the air from there. The last thing I want is to have it pull in the smoke I just kicked out. Now on to find a contractor who actually wants some business.


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## Yukoner (Sep 22, 2016)

n0s4atu said:


> Now on to find a contractor who actually wants some business.


For some reason, this can be a difficult thing to find !


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## csk415 (Sep 6, 2016)

Yukoner said:


> For some reason, this can be a difficult thing to find !


You would think with winter on us someone would jump at the chance to work inside.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Westside Threat (Oct 25, 2016)

Contractors are the bane of my existence. It absolutely amazes me how they won't return your calls then will contact you three months later asking if you still need the work done. 

Once you find a good one, don't let go.


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## Yukoner (Sep 22, 2016)

csk415 said:


> You would think with winter on us someone would jump at the chance to work inside.


You would think.


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## n0s4atu (Apr 24, 2016)

Just a quick update, still haven't heard from a contractor and well honestly at this point it's just not a priority. The window fan I have now is sufficient for me and one other (only tested so far with the wife and I). It's actually monstrous by window fan standards and takes up most of the upper window when installed. The room is sealed so well that without the lower part of the window cracked a few inches it very noticeably creates negative pressure. If I wasn't so concerned with smoke getting into the rest of the basement I'd just crack the door, because even with the bottom part of the window open 4" it gets quite cold in there. lol Way better than smoking outside though.

The BlueAir I'm not sold on 100%, certainly not for the price, but I feel like it absolutely helps. I just wouldn't recommend the purchase because of the cost of not only the unit itself but the filters.

I picked up an ionizer and feel like dollar for dollar it's a better investment than the Blue Air. Lesson learned though. I enjoyed a nice VR Unico down there yesterday and as I left turned it on and shut the door. I felt like I could smell the ozone on the next floor. Wife didn't comment on it when she got home though so it may have simply been my imagination. Next time regardless of when I smoke I'll run it at night before bed or during the day if we're going out for a couple hours. For a unit that's about 10x10 it's really powerful. Certainly enough to cover the whole room and then some obviously.

Oh, finally having sat down and tested the TV I mounted in there, it became obvious I need to run ethernet directly down to the room. I had hoped since the router is directly above the signal strength would be fine and for most things it is, but in trying to watch Luke Cage in HDR the picture eventually started to suffer. Since the TV can handle HDR and I have an X-Box 1S and a Playstation 4 Pro, both of which can do HDR, I'm going to have to make a mess and cut a small hole in the ceiling. The bright side is, after that it's easy as I already have a hole in the beams to run the ethernet since I did it to run the cable when it was a gym and didn't require ethernet (didn't think far enough ahead obviously).

We had a few friends over to play cards and they weren't cigar smokers so I didn't offer any up and really try to test the window fan, but they also didn't seem to notice any lingering cigar smell so to me that's at least a small victory.

Edit:
In case anyone was curious here is the fan and also the ionizer I'm using.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00FXOFNYQ/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00JAP7388/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o05_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


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## awk6898 (Apr 1, 2017)

Any updates with the contractor?


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## n0s4atu (Apr 24, 2016)

awk6898 said:


> Any updates with the contractor?


Never heard from him again and with everything else going on, just hasn't been a priority, plus now that the weather is starting to get nice again I'll likely put it off until next fall, but I've been down there regularly with the window fan, etc and it hasn't been an issue (aside from when it's genuinely cold out then a giant fan in the window, with the bottom open can make it a bit chilly. Far as smoke, etc goes with just me or me and the wife in there, then running the Ozone machine, followed up the next morning with the BlueAir it smells just fine and we've had a few card nights with non-smokers and non have commented on it smelling like a cigar bar. 
Now, if I had a bunch of cigar smokers over for a card night, that might be another story. The plus side is I sealed the room so well no smoke gets out into the rest of the basement, so even if it does ultimately smell like a cigar bar, it's the only room that will. In the end I just figure I'll get the job done the way I want it done or not at all.

Sorry it took a while to respond, we were on vacation and while I read it on vacation I forgot to respond then.


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