# Intensity or Complexity?



## Bird-Dog (Oct 16, 2009)

What's more important to you, intensity or complexity? 

While I can certainly appreciate a complex cigar, it typically needs to hit me over the head with it for me to notice it. Subtle, though complex, cigars are usually lost on me. It's not that I don't try... and there are those occasions when nothing else will do. But, it's not first priority.

To some degree that may be why I have such an affinity for mid-gauge cigars. It's not a hard-and-fast rule by any means, and rules are meant to be broken anyway. But I do tend to notice more intensity from the RG's in the 40's I find myself smoking most often, though likewise they seem less inclined toward complexity. I used to write this proclivity off to "just being old-school", but lately I've been asking myself "why?" The best answer I've been able to come up with is "intensity". A one-note cigar is just fine by me, if it's a darn good note and I don't have to look too deep to find it!

I placed this in Habanos because... well, because that's the sandbox I play in most of the time. There's also so much of a wider range of leaf employed in NC's that I'm afraid the effect of RG on this issue is considerably less clearcut, making these perceptions less valid. A fat LFD Double Ligero is definitely more intense than a thinner uber-mild Macanudo. But in the world of Cubans the differences are often more defined by size than blend IMO.


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## Cigary (Oct 19, 2007)

For the last decade or so it's been about complexity because I love the taste whether it be with cigars or food. Not everyone will agree with that and I don't expect them to because we're all different... we each glean different things as to what we like and when it comes to Cigars I love at the minimum three different types of taste otherwise it becomes boring to me to have only one or two... That's like only having one spice and a particular food that I enjoy eating. Variety is the spice of life for me!


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## Fusion (Apr 5, 2017)

Pretty new to Cigars and very new to CC's but here is my take on it.
I get complexity from NC's big differences from one to the next, pepper, raisins, spice, nuts and yes some barn yard (my fav) and more where as with CC"s im picking up different intensity's of the same 3 tastes, nuts, chocolate and cocoa. 
Now it has taken me quite a while to pick up on the NC nuances so it could be ill need more time with CC's to pick up more "flavors" but ill take nuts, chocolate and cocoa for now :smile2:

So my answer is both, depending on what im smoking.


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## ADRUNKK (Aug 16, 2016)

I'd prefer both but that's wishful thinking. Intensity first. If it is a complex cigar on top of that Im super happy. 

If it's a mild complex cigar I could care less. I need some boldness or some intensity behind it or I get bored quick. I'd rather smoke a quick cigarette and go back in the house.


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## poppajon75 (Apr 10, 2016)

Not to sound like I'm riding the fence but, I look for both. I play in both sandboxes and, each has the qualities I'm looking for depending on my needs at the moment.
Now I don't have near the experience that @Cigary or, @curmudgeonista have so, I'm still evolving myself and, my tastes vary greatly. I may go a week where only smaller rg cigars with a couple intense pronounced notes are all I want. Other times I love a cigar that takes you on journey of constantly evolving flavors. 
As mentioned, NC's have countless variables when it comes to intensity and, complexity. CC's I've heard described as variations on the same theme but, IMO those variations can be quite different and, more than enough to hook a thrill seeker if you will. As I write this I realize that both are important to me and, play a large part in my role as a student of the leaf. Only time will tell which becomes most relevant.

Sent from Joe's couch while napping before Joe gets back with the beer.


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## TCstr8 (Mar 30, 2016)

Intensity, hands down. Almost 2 years in, and complexity is still lost on me. My palate must be similar to a slugs. No idea what the different notes are, I just know if I like them or not. And if I like it, then give me more of it.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


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## UBC03 (Nov 18, 2015)

I live in the taste good, taste bad (grunt) camp.. So intensity is what it's all about for me. If it's a great flavor that kicks the door in enough for me to pick it up.. Gimme more of it, is my theory

sent from Bob's back yard.. now scrounging through bpeglers ash tray


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## Bird-Dog (Oct 16, 2009)

TCstr8 said:


> Intensity, hands down. Almost 2 years in, and complexity is still lost on me. My palate must be similar to a slugs. No idea what the different notes are, I just know if I like them or not. And if I like it, then give me more of it.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk





UBC03 said:


> I live in the taste good, taste bad (grunt) camp.. So intensity is what it's all about for me. If it's a great flavor that kicks the door in enough for me to pick it up.. Gimme more of it, is my theory
> 
> sent from Bob's back yard.. now scrounging through bpeglers ash tray


You Tapatalk fellas can't see the poll, can you? That's a shame. Team Intensity is trailing by a run or two. Need your bats at the plate. :kicknuts:


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## LeatherNeck (Feb 8, 2017)

Wow, this one's tough and not something I think about on a daily basis, but here's my take:
I love intensely bold flavors, but if nothing changes in the hour time it takes to smoke the average cigar, my palate gets burnt out. Complexity is sometimes fleeting and under rated and while I have no problem smoking a good consistent cigar, sometimes I just want more. So to put this puzzle together; yes, hypothetically I'd love to have the best of both worlds, but then again winning the lottery would be nice too. For me, if it comes down to flavor or strength, I pick flavor.


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## Bird-Dog (Oct 16, 2009)

LeatherNeck said:


> Wow, this one's tough and not something I think about on a daily basis, but here's my take:
> I love intensely bold flavors, but if nothing changes in the hour time it takes to smoke the average cigar, my palate gets burnt out. Complexity is sometimes fleeting and under rated and while I have no problem smoking a good consistent cigar, sometimes I just want more. So to put this puzzle together; yes, hypothetically I'd love to have the best of both worlds, but then again winning the lottery would be nice too. For me, if it comes down to flavor or strength, I pick flavor.


Brings to mind another question (no poll this time):

Can progression rightfully be called complexity absent significant shifts in flavor profile? Or is progression simply building on the intensity of the existing flavors? Serious question; and one I don't know the answer to as an accepted axiom.


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## Cigary (Oct 19, 2007)

curmudgeonista said:


> Brings to mind another question (no poll this time):
> 
> Can progression rightfully be called complexity absent significant shifts in flavor profile? Or is progression simply building on the intensity of the existing flavors? Serious question; and one I don't know the answer to as an accepted axiom.


I'm thinking both...I know that having both elements of each makes for a great smoking experience. When you have a complex cigar that just seems to burst with 'flavor' that is using those flavors off the wheelhouse then we get the idea intensity is now being bumped to the next level. When we smoke a cigar that isn't complex we call that a one dimensional cigar....it focuses on one particular flavor/spice/etc. unlike a complex cigar that will exploit several. Then an intensity can kick in....that's when things get really exciting. Think of them like we do in foods that have a complexity and add several spices that are cooked into them...add jalapeños... add cilantro.... and you get your intensity. This is how I define things...with others YMMV and definition is different.... doesn't mean one is right or wrong as it's based on our own interpretation.... that's what makes this hobby so much fun.


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## poppajon75 (Apr 10, 2016)

My opinIon varies slightly from Gary's though we agree that both are related. I do agree that adding (the progression) flavors plays a role in the complexity but, they are more like brother and sister rather than the same. 
I see complexity more as an end result rather than a building up. I see progression as the building up.
Examples:
- That cigar was complex. I picked up notes of spice, leather, cedar, cream and, nuts.
- There was a noticeable progression that started with notes of spice and leather then settled into more cedar, cream and, nuts but, not all at the same time.
Now having described the same cigar, I don't think they are the same descriptions. 
I hope that came out right. I swore I was done thinking for today hours ago when I intended to go to sleep.

Sent from Joe's couch while napping before Joe gets back with the beer.


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## pwaggs (Jan 10, 2017)

Complexity. I have found that most "yard mulch" cigars try and hide their flaws with intensity. Now I always look at intense cigars that do not have any complexity with a little suspicion. A great cigar is complex and might also be intense.


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## Kidvegas (Oct 17, 2016)

I guess I’d fall into the Intensity/good or bad camp. I’ve given up trying to decipher the hidden profiles within cigars a long time ago! I just know the ones i like and that’s been working for me! And maybe my description of complexity differs from others but any cigar with multiple transitions and a constant evolving flavor throughout go into my complex category. 


Sent from My recliner


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## GOT14U (May 12, 2017)

My palate isn’t refined like a lot of you guys here. I’m a good /bad kinda guy. It needs to be a bold smooth flavor for me. When I think of intense I think of the Nic hit. And I don’t get much from cigars in a whole. 

To the question of complex vs progression. I think of it like this...if I have a burger (let’s say a In n Out double double) and I add 2 or three together I get a 4x4 or 6x6 but it’s still a burger. It isn’t more complex in my eyes just more of it...that’s my take on this wonderful world of sticks.

Side note I have found myself moving away from CCs as they have not been “bold” enough for me...I’ve begun to think they are over priced and over rated. Not to say they all fall into this but I’m thinkin it’s a 50/50 split with me right now.


Sent from the poor-shack!


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## bpegler (Mar 30, 2006)

Over time, the intensity diminishes, and the flavors become clearer. The cigar becomes less muddled. That’s when a great complex cigar really shines. 

Unfortunately, that takes years.

These days, I’m smoking some very young cigars, that are more single note. But what a note.


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## Gummy Jones (Mar 30, 2017)

I would have probably said intensity > complexity a couple years ago
I have since changed my opinion


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## Alrightdriver (May 2, 2017)

For me it's intensity more than complexity, mainly because my palate is terrible for picking nuances out. I have 2 real categories. Will buy again, and won't buy again. 

Sent from my SM-S727VL using Tapatalk


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## JohnnyFlake (May 31, 2006)

My preference is intensity overall!

However, I rarely find any CC that become very intense. They, at least for me, are more about complexity and the faint nuances, that come along, as you smoke the cigar down. In my early years, 40s, 50s, and early 60s I was good at picking up those nuances and enjoyed that immensely, but over the last eight/ten years or so, I have lost a lot of that ability. I still do enjoy CCs, but not as much as I once did.

With NCs, for me, it's mostly about intensity. The NCs I enjoy most, offer up several flavors from the get-go and then just seem to become more full bodied, with respect to the 3 or 4 flavors that they start out with. Sadly, most of the cigars I really love are in the $12/$15 range and more. Case in point, one of my favorite brands, is Paul Garmirian.


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## TonyBrooklyn (Jan 28, 2010)

bpegler said:


> Over time, the intensity diminishes, and the flavors become clearer. The cigar becomes less muddled. That's when a great complex cigar really shines.
> 
> Unfortunately, that takes years.
> 
> These days, I'm smoking some very young cigars, that are more single note. But what a note.


Its always been that way for me. I rather enjoy a single dimension that is pronounced. Instead of trying to guess the flavors because they are muted.:vs_cool:


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## TonyBrooklyn (Jan 28, 2010)

TCstr8 said:


> Intensity, hands down. Almost 2 years in, and complexity is still lost on me. My palate must be similar to a slugs. No idea what the different notes are, I just know if I like them or not. And if I like it, then give me more of it.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk





UBC03 said:


> I live in the taste good, taste bad (grunt) camp.. So intensity is what it's all about for me. If it's a great flavor that kicks the door in enough for me to pick it up.. Gimme more of it, is my theory
> 
> sent from Bob's back yard.. now scrounging through bpeglers ash tray


:wink2:


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## TonyBrooklyn (Jan 28, 2010)

Intense Habanero









Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk


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