# Havanas taste best at a different RH than they are stored at



## ESP (Jan 1, 2000)

If you don’t want to bore yourself with the rest of this post, well I say it in a nutshell: there is a difference between the ideal conditions to store the cigars (i.e., 65% RH) Vs. the ideal conditions for a cigar prior to smoking it (i.e., 70-72% RH). 

I was recently re-visiting Paul Dixon’s web site and reading an old article that mentioned Alfred Dunhill conducting experiments on cigar storage in 1920’s:
http://web.ukonline.co.uk/p.dixon/ukcigars/archives/wets.htm ,, As you may notice, this is not a new discovery! Dunhill and Davidoff both had arrived at the same conclusion, that’s why their walk-in humidors are usually set around 72% (I guess it is assumed that the customers obviously want cigars that taste their best,, on the other hand - for long term storage - they keep them elsewhere!

In my limited experience the cigars that are meant for long term keeping (+10 yrs) would benefit from a lower RH such as 55-60% (of course they also need to be at a lower temp around 60 F and preferably as tightly packed as possible), there’s a down side to storing at such low levels of humidity – they become very brittle and get cracked wrappers (only if handled and moved around) but remember putting them away for +10 yrs hopefully would not be a problem with any movements unless you anticipate an earthquake!,, 

On the other hand, most Havanas that we age between the 1-10yrs, an average 65%RH and 60-65 degrees F, would be best to develop their peak flavours. Those cigars stored at high RH levels (say 74-75% and above!) may loose their flavours quite rapidly. 

Now that we are all sorted with the storage!, lets talk about best smoking conditions. I personally move the ones ready for smoking to a humidor with setting of 70-72%,, older cigars enjoy a somewhat dryer RH before they are smoked – for example a 10 yr old cigar smokes best at 70% but its best to age them at 60-65% (I remember seeing a very useful formula for the taste: “72% minus 1% for every 5 yrs of age” and that makes sense to me  

On this board and elsewhere it seems to me that’s become the consensus to smoke the Havanas at 65%,, well that is ideal RH to age them at, but about a month before smoking them they can go to the ‘dor with the 70-72%,, they taste much better at that – of course you need to try it for yourself! And don’t forget that this is only MHO,,

I have also seen those arguments regarding the Havanas that are rolled too tight or are plugged, and suggestions to keep at 65% since they smoke better at that,, well that’s just too bad! This is a problem that started pretty much in 1997 and continues to bug us all!,, Just imagine all that beautiful tobacco wasted in a cigar that has no draw! However, the remedy for a tight smoke IMO should be a draw poker, skewer, smoke them in a pipe! or give’em away! – rather than lowering the ideal humidity,, 

It is also interesting to note that there used to be a “dry English style” of smoking in the old days as noted in the Paul Dixon’s article – but back then the 55%RH (dry cigars) were all at least 10 yrs old (merchants used to age their stock at least 5 yrs plus another 5 yrs it took a cigar to reach the vendor from the time tobacco was harvested. and it would be very difficult to verify merits of that dry style these days! 

Well, for those of you who got this far, I admire your patience!  

Keep’em Smoking


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## dayplanner (Dec 11, 1997)

*RE: Havanas taste best at a different RH than they are store*

I'm patient and it was interesting. Food for thought. Thanks ESP.


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## sgoselin (Dec 12, 1997)

*RE: Havanas taste best at a different RH than they are store*

Great post. Thank you for the effort and it was well worth reading. It is this kind of post, laden with real information that makes Club Stogie such a fine place.


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## dayplanner (Dec 11, 1997)

*RE: Havanas taste best at a different RH than they are store*

Great post


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## jsl (Dec 12, 1997)

*RE: Havanas taste best at a different RH than they are store*

[updated:LAST EDITED ON May-15-02 AT 06:09 PM (CDT)]Great post, bro! I'll stick with the lower RH to loosen some of my MANY "too tight" Havanas, though!


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## robmcd (Apr 9, 2002)

*RE: Havanas taste best at a different RH than they are store*

thanks for the thoughts esp- i keep my aristocrat at 67% because i like the flavor of my cigars at that rh... i started the aristocrat at 63% and brought it up 1% a month until it reached the point i liked. i do have a desktop, but i keep it around 67% too.


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## Lamar (Dec 12, 1997)

*RE: Havanas taste best at a different RH than they are store*

Thanks for the post. I had a Jr. Varsity Isom today, a two year old Opus X DC that I had stored at 70% and it smoked wonderfully for two and a half hours. At a lower RH I usually go through one of those in just over an hour. The extra humidity for me gives the cigar time to develop its flavors and I enjoy that.


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## Drewsky (Dec 31, 1999)

*RE: Havanas taste best at a different RH than they are store*

Thanks for the info.... learning something everyday from you guys!


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## radar (Dec 31, 1999)

*RE: Havanas taste best at a different RH than they are store*

Thanks Lamar, nice post.


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## ESP (Jan 1, 2000)

*RE: Havanas taste best at a different RH than they are store*

...that makes Club Stogie such a fine place...

::I wholeheartedly agree with you,, I find LLG's very well informed and easy to communicate with, I enjoy reading the posts here - to the point and no bs,, and the format gives the freedom to stay within the subject - without being afraid of breaking the rules... You may say wow, that was a long way of saying thanks! but believe me, there is a reason behind any whining!  
I had this same post pulled from another board since the editor thought it was not cigar related! (actually at the time I had to restrain myself from reacting prematurely, since there are some very nice people on that board as well - and at the end of the day, those who we care for, matter and not some kid looking at the titles deciding where this or that belongs to,,

To make it cigar related, I am now smoking an '89 RyJ churchill and believe I just discovered why this vitola ever became so popular!


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## rkt (Dec 12, 1997)

*RE: Havanas taste best at a different RH than they are store*

Great post! Sounds like you have done your research.
I have had some smoke great at high RH and some at lower
RH. But taste is subjective.

Oh and how is this not cigar related? x(


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## ESP (Jan 1, 2000)

*RE: Havanas taste best at a different RH than they are store*

...I have had some smoke great at high RH and some at lower
RH. But taste is subjective. Oh and how is this not cigar related? x(

::Very true, taste is subjective and each person needs to establish his/her prefrences - by trial and error,, we're all students of life!

Older cigars tend to dry out a bit as well,, however after the first 1" of ash developes,, they usually soften up and flavours become more pronounced,,

my original post was pulled (and then relocated) to a storage forum, frankly, when I posted the original one, I thought I was talking about the optimum taste and how to achieve it, not simply how to fix up an igloodor or keep constant humidity,, however, as long as we have a forum to share our experiences and have a bit of fun while doing it - that's all that matters,,


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## cigartexan (Jan 1, 2000)

*RE: Havanas taste best at a different RH than they are store*

Great post. What a wealth of information.

I keep my cigars in a mahogany cabinet I converted using a gifted Vigilant Guardian 100 and it keeps a perfect 69%RH. This has worked out well for boxes and singles. All, whom have smoked a stick that's sat in my humi for over a year, have great things to say. With most sticks that aren't plugged I smoke them right at 69%, but for those tight ones, I let them sit in the lower 65% humi for a day or so and they smoke fine. I will agree that all tastes are different, so yours may be different than mine, but I do see a trend for the more humid side.

We all have weaknesses, so why not light up a good Havana and be content with knowing you have the greatest weakness of all.

Jack


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## TAK (Jan 1, 2000)

*RE: Mexico Trip*


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## jgros001 (Jun 14, 2005)

*Re: Mexico Trip*

A great older thread...I need to try this. Think I'll set up a small smoking humidor to test this out for some of my current smoking stash. Most everything I have sits at about 63-65% right now.


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## dayplanner (Dec 11, 1997)

*Re: Mexico Trip*



jgros001 said:


> A great older thread...I need to try this. Think I'll set up a small smoking humidor to test this out for some of my current smoking stash. Most everything I have sits at about 63-65% right now.


Let us know your thoughts after you try it. I've arrived at the same place that many others have -- storage at 63-65. Smoking at a few points lower -- the opposite of the original poster.


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## Blaylock-cl (Apr 28, 2006)

Thanks for finding this...seems to go against the conventional way, but something that would be interesting to put to the test.


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## Gargamel (Nov 8, 2004)

*Re: Mexico Trip*



whiteboard said:


> Let us know your thoughts after you try it. I've arrived at the same place that many others have -- storage at 63-65. Smoking at a few points lower -- the opposite of the original poster.


The article says that Zino and Alfred kept the walk-in humidors at 72%. It appears the author surmises the reasoning behind this was cigars smoke better at those conditions. I don't see any follow up or quotes from either of them suggesting this is why they used that setting. If there were actually some statements on record from Davi and Dunni stating cigars smoke better at 72, I would be a bit intrigued as almost any cigar I have smoked fresh out of a shop seemed a bit moist and spongy.

My cigars sit at 65 RH. I have them in a closet which I keep slightly open to maintain 60 degrees. Before smoking I usually let them sit out for an hour or two. This seems to work well for me. It is an interesting topic though as I am always looking to maximize flavor.


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## lenguamor (Nov 23, 2006)

*Re: Mexico Trip*



jgros001 said:


> A great older thread...I need to try this. Think I'll set up a small smoking humidor to test this out for some of my current smoking stash. Most everything I have sits at about 63-65% right now.


I may try this as well if I can manage to keep one box open and free. 

I keep my cigars at around 60%, max 65%.


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## Even Steven (Dec 15, 2006)

*Re: Havanas taste best at a different RH than they are store*



jsl said:


> [updated:LAST EDITED ON May-15-02 AT 06:09 PM (CDT)]Great post, bro! I'll stick with the lower RH to loosen some of my MANY "too tight" Havanas, though!


I keep my RASCC at 65%-66% and it didn't correct the draw problems


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## LasciviousXXX (Oct 12, 2004)

*Re: Havanas taste best at a different RH than they are store*

An awesome thread from our buddy ESP.... this man knows his shit and I always learn something reading his posts.

XXX


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## Bigwaved (May 20, 2006)

If I have to buy another humi because of this...


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## LasciviousXXX (Oct 12, 2004)

Bigwaved said:


> If I have to buy another humi because of this...


You'll what?????? Send ESP a few sticks as a thank you???? :r


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## Quint (Oct 19, 2006)

Very interesting read thanks for the post...


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## Bigwaved (May 20, 2006)

LasciviousXXX said:


> You'll what?????? Send ESP a few sticks as a thank you???? :r


I had better come up with a good line of reasoning at home. That is the first step...


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## Quint (Oct 19, 2006)

Bigwaved said:


> I had better come up with a good line of reasoning at home. That is the first step...


I can always cover your overflow in my humi :ss


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## jgros001 (Jun 14, 2005)

Bigwaved said:


> If I have to buy another humi because of this...


Just got a 70% puck in....desktop set up with some matching sticks in 63-65%...will wait about 30-45 days to let everything settle....then :cb


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## jgros001 (Jun 14, 2005)

*Re: Havanas taste best at a different RH than they are store*



LasciviousXXX said:


> An awesome thread from our buddy ESP.... this man knows his shit and I always learn something reading his posts.
> 
> XXX


Yes he does, any of the newbs to the world of habanos can learn a great deal by picking a FOG and reading posts/threads from a ways back. Don't think that some of us haven't lerned a lot from the posts from '99-'04...and stop by from time to time and give us some more info and reviews.

just to name a few...
Mo
ESP
Poker 
Lamar
sgoselin
dvickery
mcgoospot
Bruce
Drill
Brandon
cigartexan
Bruce5
Fredster
MattR
OLS


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## Bigwaved (May 20, 2006)

jgros001 said:


> Just got a 70% puck in....desktop set up with some matching sticks in 63-65%...will wait about 30-45 days to let everything settle....then :cb


Don't forget to add your impressions of that to this thread.


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## Airborne RU (Oct 7, 2006)

You know I thought I knew what to do with regards to RH but now I'm confused. Things seem to work fine at 65% but if anyone does do an experiment please let us all know what they find out.


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## dayplanner (Dec 11, 1997)

Hmmm...my experience is that Habanos taste a lot better when smoked between 60 and 65 RH. To each his own.


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## Genevapics (Dec 29, 2006)

whiteboard said:


> Hmmm...my experience is that Habanos taste a lot better when smoked between 60 and 65 RH. To each his own.


This is where I keep my rh also. Cigars taste very good. I am not setup to compare at the higher levels, but I will do so once I am.

Thanks for the interesting thread.


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## stogie_kanobie_one (Feb 9, 2006)

I know I've been back a forth a few times and I've found that I don't think this applies as a blanket rule to all Habanos. I've had better overall smoking experiences at drier rh's 65 than higher due to the burn and draw being better. The direr the cigar also seems to bring out more of a woodier taste that I really have come to enjoy. It's as if at a higher rh the cigar really does taste.... 'heavier' for lack of a better word. The flavor profile however does place an interesting twist on this. After having stored at 70 initially for close to a year I think they are more flavorful at 65. This could however be due to the aforementioned better over smoking experience (draw + burn).


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## bassrocker (Oct 26, 2006)

I keep my Humi at 62 for aging but i have been reading that they smoke best at 72. 
I try not to read into it that much , I will take my smoke out of the humi and set it out for about a hour and then smoke it. I live in Tampa Florida and it is humid here ( the tropical Air ) much like Cuba. They always smoke great.:ss 

Mike


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## Boston_Dude05 (Oct 10, 2006)

This theory/experience by ESP seems to make sense. I mean if you want to age then you want to keep them at a lower RH% so that the flavors don't go away too quickly. And when smoking bringing RH% up also makes sense even if it is just from a handling perspective, meaning that at too low RH% the wrapper will be too brittle. I currently have my aging coolerdor at 61-3% but have my humi at 70%, which is my smoking stock. Will give a review on how that works. Curious as to other thoughts.


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## MeNimbus (Dec 18, 2006)

Thank you for an informative post. p


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## dayplanner (Dec 11, 1997)

I've smoked Habanos at 70 and above and find they burn unevenly, are difficult to keep lit and taste flat.


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## Simplified (Feb 18, 2006)

Good information and interesting discussion. I am storing ISOM's at about 65 and others at about 68 to 70. I talked to my B&M and he keeps them just above 70 because most of his customers do not use any level of humidification on the singles just buy a few and smoke them in a day or two.

Burn issues are the most notable issues I have had with higher humidity. :2


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## Boston_Dude05 (Oct 10, 2006)

Now thinking back, when I was traveling abroad most of the B&Ms kept their ISOMs in the low 60s for their walk-in humis even. However, I thought the instructions included with the boxes said something to the effect that the recommended humidity is 65-70%?


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## jgros001 (Jun 14, 2005)

Bigwaved said:


> Don't forget to add your impressions of that to this thread.


After a couple months of this experiment, I am really not that impressed with the higher humidity. I am going back to 65% beads that will keep my smoking desktops at 62%. I have not had any issues with the draw...but certainly a bit of a bitter taste at the higher humidity and a bit of an uneven burn and relights (damn I hate relights)...I figured it would even out after 3 months but todays Por Larranga was the last straw. The test was done with cigars from '98-06. It is really interesting how much of a difference you get with an 8% variation. Oh, and DaKlugs pointed this out in another thread about a week ago...sponginess, those cigars kept at 70% got a little spongy while smoking...this didn't happen with the cigars at 62%. I am glad I tested it out though and it gives me a more concrete reason for my storage preferences.


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## Genevapics (Dec 29, 2006)

jgros001 said:


> ... sponginess, those cigars kept at 70% got a little spongy while smoking...this didn't happen with the cigars at 62%...


At anything approaching 72-75% RH, the wrappers on my cigars became wrinkled, much like my fingers after sitting in a hot tub for about an hour. As for how they smoked: uneven burns, flat and flavorless.

But here is the thing though: There really is no Right/Wrong way regarding RH. Sure, if you are way outside of the normal range, you will probably experience trouble, but somewhere in the 62-72% range is probably okay. For me, I find that 62-65% works best for both storage and smoking.


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## LasciviousXXX (Oct 12, 2004)

Low temp, low humidity..... oh yeah baby.... LONG TERM!!!


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