# Gas Station tobacco....



## Termite

Turns out that my local gas station (I live out in the boon-docks) carries about 6 different types of pipe tobacco. Is it possible to get anything good from the gas station or is it like cigars, they only carry the very cheapest crap equiviant to swisher sweets? 

I was surprised to see they had any, there must be quite a few pipe smokers around here somewhere.


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## x6ftundx

could you list the type of tobacco? probably captain black and prince albert... both not bad in a pinch but not the best... also be careful and ask him when he got them, they might have been lying around for 1000000 years


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## InsidiousTact

A few people on here rave about sugar barrel all the time, I haven't tried it but if you see it there you might want to consider grabbing some.


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## Jack Straw

They will probably have what what most call "Drug Store" or "Over the Counter (OTC)" tobaccos, which come in little pouches. They are not a bad place to start, and they smoke very easily.


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## pomorider

I don't mind Captain Black in the white pouch. They are easy to smoke.


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## bierundtabak

Captain Black Gold and White are what I started on. For me the White was milder, less bite, but all in all they both don't bite much if at all.


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## Zeuceone

My local pharmacy has some tobacco and it looks like its been there since the day it opened. Don't see how it sells, due to gaving a tobacco store in the same shopping center.


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## gibson_es

Im still waiting to see suger berral In a pharmacy or convenient store...


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## drastic_quench

Your instinct about Swisher Sweets was spot on. 

Rattray's 
McClelland
G.L. Pease
Samuel Gawith
Dunhill
Esoterica
Gawith and Hoggarth

These are fine tobacco houses, and their are many more. Check out 4 noggins and smokingpipes.com for great retailers. Unlike cigars, the very best pipe tobacco in the world is very affordable. So much so, that's there's little reason to explore the bargain basement stuff. They have their fans, and not all of the over the counter tobacco is horrid, but the great majority is.


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## Granger

gibson_es said:


> Im still waiting to see suger berral In a pharmacy or convenient store...


Chances are slim! I order mine!


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## ultramag

gibson_es said:


> Im still waiting to see suger berral In a pharmacy or convenient store...





Granger said:


> Chances are slim! I order mine!


What he said. It's not available in pouches either. Tub only on this one which decreases your odds even more.

As to the OP's question there's nothing wrong with the majority of those blends. The one thing that is of concern is how long they've been sitting, especially when dealing with pouches. Most likely with a selection of six there is Carter Hall, Prince Albert, Half & Half, and one or two of the 3 Captain Black blends. I'm not big on the Captain but would be happy with smoking any of the other three and do quite regularly. Give them a shot.....our Grandad's knew stuff. :thumb:


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## Sam_Wheat

Termite said:


> ... or is it like cigars, they only carry the very cheapest crap equiviant to swisher sweets? ...


Swisher Sweets are crap? :bitchslap:


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## sounds7

Far too many chemicals in the "OTC" type tobacco's. O.K. if your hard up for a smoke but I would really rather spend my money on a quality blend. Introduce yourself to some of those in our forum "Trade for pipes section" . You will see/smell/and taste the difference in the quality right away.


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## laloin

I actually enjoy Prince Albert, and it's dirt cheap at my local walmart, thou I have to point out the little boxes of it. Captain Black white not a big fan of, smoked it twice and still don't like it. it's in my cellar somewhere, and when i open the pouch again in what 10K years it still will be smokable hahah
troy


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## strongirish

I bet Carter Hall and Middleton's Cherry are among them and both are good smokes. Don't know the OTC's, they are still around for good reason.


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## Termite

Sam_Wheat said:


> Swisher Sweets are crap? :bitchslap:


 Well.....not if you have nothging else to smoke.....


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## B.L. Sims

Jack Straw said:


> They will probably have what what most call "Drug Store" or "Over the Counter (OTC)" tobaccos, which come in little pouches. They are not a bad place to start, and they smoke very easily.


And just to further this a bit in my own terms, that "crap" is what most of our dads and grandads, and great grandads smoked on a regular basis. When your not so worried about what others think youll find that a great many things are perfectly servicable.

While we most certainly have a much broader and better quality of tobacco to choose from, turning up your nose at what others may smoke speaks to a certain volume....

Just sayin


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## Slow Triathlete

Carter Hall is a good one as well as Granger.

Prince Albert was always too harsh for me.


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## strongirish

As an avid reviewer of tobaccos, I would never call any blend crap! We don't need that amongst our pipe smoking selves. It just makes for infighting and the antis do enough of that for us. While I may not like a blend, you might and the last thing I would do is want to give hurt to you. I can find merits in any blend, I just love tobacco. If you don't like it, don't smoke it but don't put down another mans tobacco. Smoke what you like and like what you smoke, I always say.


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## Firedawg

would you buy their cigars? That is the question you need to ask. If not move on.


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## Jack Straw

Hey, if it weren't for Backwoods I never would have started smoking cigars...


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## Granger

sounds7 said:


> Far too many chemicals in the "OTC" type tobacco's. O.K. if your hard up for a smoke but I would really rather spend my money on a quality blend. Introduce yourself to some of those in our forum "Trade for pipes section" . You will see/smell/and taste the difference in the quality right away.


Hmm, this does NOT sound like the "Smoke what you like" attitude we should be embracing here as BOTL! I have smoked a long time and I enjoy my little OTC...and it is not hard up, it is what I like to enjoy at the end of the day.


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## commonsenseman

As others have said, smoke what you like & so forth......

I like several OTC Burley blends, Carter Hall, Prince Albert, Velvet, Half-n-Half, etc. I'm not ashamed in the least.


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## drastic_quench

"Smoke what you like" is great, but it has nothing to do with calling a spade a spade when it comes to the question of a tobacco's quality. I'm about the quality of tobacco and pipe - not the man.

I have no problem expressing negative criticisms about blends -- and when it comes to gas station or drugstore tobacco I will paint with a very broad brush because so much of it is so terrible. Also, it's very often no cheaper - or even more expensive - than any excellent tin from the wide world of tobacco. Anyone's free to love what I loathe.

And I do loathe this stuff. I think the cheap briars and cheap aromatics drive off a lot of potential pipe smokers. They're interested, and they go to a drugstore or lackluster brick and mortar, and they get set up with a hot clunker of a pipe and steamy tasteless tobacco. Imagine how many give up because they don't know how much better it can be.


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## Termite

WOW...you guys are sensitive! :bolt:

Just so I'm clear about my post....

I don't care what _anyone else_ smokes, it is up to them and I have no place telling them what to smoke. However, when I started smoking cigars I had only smoked a few Swishers and a few bags of Backwoods cigars while in college. Now that I have some experience with "good" cigars I wouldn't smoke a Swisher unless I was really desperate.

So my question was to experienced smokers that know about better quality tobacco and not to the farmer that has only smoked one kind of tobacco his whole live and don't know any different. I know there is a difference in tobaccos and just want to get started on the right tract.

Sorry if I offended anyone :sorry:


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## strongirish

Problem is, an OTC tobacco can be every bit as good a quality tobacco as what some would claim is superior. An English tobacco from say SG or C and D is different but not always superior to a Walnut or Half and Half. It is up to each persons pallette as to which tobacco is the one for them. I have smoked a thousand different tobaccos over my 40 years of pipe smoking from many different countries, and I still reach for some of the OTC blends. If a person loaths a certain tobacco then it's not for him but what I am saying is don't call it crap as the next guy might love it and loath what the first guy smokes. Same with pipes. I have a very large collection of pipes, from Dr Grabows to many artisan pipes and Castellos. Some Grabows can smoke every bit as well as a Castello and vice versas. Not as likely but they can. I think it is a bit of snobbery to look down at a guys pipe and tobacco just because they are not percieved as expensive. As long as he enjoys it he is a brother piper. Just sayin...


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## Mitch

Termite said:


> Well.....not if you have nothging else to smoke.....


I would rather not smoke


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## strongirish

Would be your loss!


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## drastic_quench

strongirish said:


> Problem is, an OTC tobacco can be every bit as good a quality tobacco as what some would claim is superior. An English tobacco from say SG or C and D is different but not always superior to a Walnut or Half and Half. It is up to each persons pallette as to which tobacco is the one for them. I have smoked a thousand different tobaccos over my 40 years of pipe smoking from many different countries, and I still reach for some of the OTC blends. If a person loaths a certain tobacco then it's not for him *but what I am saying is don't call it crap as the next guy might love it* and loath what the first guy smokes. Same with pipes. I have a very large collection of pipes, from Dr Grabows to many artisan pipes and Castellos. Some Grabows can smoke every bit as well as a Castello and vice versas. Not as likely but they can. I think it is a bit of snobbery to look down at a guys pipe and tobacco just because they are not percieved as expensive. As long as he enjoys it he is a brother piper. Just sayin...


The bolded is the part I take issue with. Nothing in this hobby is above negative criticism. I especially reject the idea that a bad review of a blend or pipe might insult or offend fans of that product. No pipe smoker should be so thin-skinned or need to walk on egg shells when expressing criticisms.

I'm a huge fan of G.L. Pease blends. Awhile back, a guy on tobacco reviews gave four or five different Pease blends one star reviews in the span of a day. So what? It didn't hurt my feelings. He's not impinging on my ability to "smoke what I like". I bet G.L. himself didn't take it personally and it's his own work!

This isn't entirely directed at you, *strongirish*. I just find this idea of a Tobacco Criticism-Free Brotherhood ridiculous.


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## MarkC

That's a more complex issue than it seems, but I lean towards your viewpoint, as long as the criticism is of the tobacco, not the smoker. However, I disagree with your dismissal of all OTC tobaccos. People have been starting with Prince Albert for longer than I've been on the planet, and it seems to hold on to and/or push forward a lot of smokers.


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## Granger

Drastic, I don't want to argue, but I will talk with you so hear my side.

And part of this is my profession and history. I research and publish, so I am in the habit of making sure opinion is opinion and fact is fact...and I try not to confuse the two.

You make this comment...


drastic_quench said:


> "Smoke what you like" is great, but it has nothing to do with calling a spade a spade when it comes to the question of a tobacco's quality. I'm about the quality of tobacco and pipe - not the man.


By what standard, other than opinion, do you state that any one tobacco is a better quality than another? I have family that is, was, and hopes to be for a long time, in the tobacco growing business. I know that some of their leaf goes to Altadis. I know that their leaf is quality. Yet, you start your statement with a quality ranking of product with no standard expressed.


drastic_quench said:


> I have no problem expressing negative criticisms about blends


Which is fine, but your previous statement belies a prejudice based on where you THINK the tobacco comes from, and creates a judgement of quality based on that prejudice.


drastic_quench said:


> -- and when it comes to gas station or drugstore tobacco I will paint with a very broad brush because so much of it is so terrible.


This is a statement of FACT, how can you support that this is a true, accurate and factual statement? You can't. How much of this have you smoked? Did you smoke it anonymously or with a prejudiced notion?


drastic_quench said:


> Also, it's very often no cheaper - or even more expensive - than any excellent tin from the wide world of tobacco.


Most of the "OTCs" cost around $24 for 12-16 ounces. This is cheaper than most brands.


drastic_quench said:


> Anyone's free to love what I loathe.


This is fine, but don't confuse your loathing with fact.


drastic_quench said:


> And I do loathe this stuff. I think the cheap briars and cheap aromatics drive off a lot of potential pipe smokers.


A valid opinion, but since the Pipe industry will tell you that MOST pipe smokers start on a cheap pipe and aromatic and then grow into the habit the facts contradict your opinion (Smoke Magazine had an article about this in their "PipeSmoke" insert some years ago)


drastic_quench said:


> They're interested, and they go to a drugstore or lackluster brick and mortar, and they get set up with a hot clunker of a pipe and steamy tasteless tobacco. Imagine how many give up because they don't know how much better it can be.


Well, as a 35 year piper who LOVES his aromatics, I think that they ARE better. I love me some Latakia blends, and burley, I love a lot.

Hate OTCs all you want, LOATHE them. But don't make statements of fact that are just your views...that's all I ask.


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## drastic_quench

I get your point, and I did not intend for my opinions to written as if they were indisputable facts. That grates on me when I see it online elsewhere too, but it does get tiresome to always tack on "in my opinion" and its variations. It's one of those tone issues that's easier to communicate in person and gets lost in type - like sarcasm.

That's cool that your family is in the biz. In my view, the low quality that I perceive in a lot of OTCs stems not so much from the farmer's leaf, but from how it was treated by the blender. So much happens once the leaf reaches the blending houses. I'm confident the good people at Borkum Riff could be given a secret stash of the finest Syrian Latakia that miraculously survived the infamous warehouse fire and only improved in taste for it, and still turn out a product that strips the enamel off of my teeth. AND some other smoker would very well rate it a smashing four star success. C'est la vie. I won't think less of the man, nor should he think less of himself.


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## strongirish

A negative review of a tobacco blend you don't like is totally different than saying the blend and the genre it belongs too is all crap. I have no problem with a negative review unless you are say an English smoker and you review an aromatic blend. Then you really are not qualified to give a negative review of a blend. That is constructive, but when you lump OTC tobaccos together as crap, you are not being constructive but confrontational and it serves no purpose. And if you are going to give a negative review, give concrete reasons for it. Read my reviews under tobaccoreviews.com to see what I mean. There are ways to give a negative review without raising hackles. I am very thick skinned and will smoke what I like no matter what someone elses opinion is, I just like to see a civil fair review.


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## Termite

Guys, sorry I started an argument....wish I could delete it. :frown:


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## indigosmoke

Having read lots of Drastic's posts, I really don't think he meant to deride anyone personally for their choice of tobacco. Besides that I think he's free to say anything he wishes or review tobaccos in any way he sees fit, including saying all OTCs suck if he wishes (or even gore my sacred cow, the Peterson pipe). I get his point about not adding IMO or my 2 cents worth to the end of every post. I have to stop myself from doing it at times. I get your points Granger and I agree with many of them (and I enjoy your detailed responses to many threads), but I think it must be realized that many of us post "off the cuff" so to speak and don't intend our statements to be analyzed and picked apart like they were intended for a peer reviewed journal or a doctoral thesis.

That being said, I can understand how some who love OTCs would smart at the criticisms constantly leveled at their favorite blends. After all, as the forums' resident Peterson pipe pimp I endure my share of Pete haters, with grace I hope.  Now let's all hold hands and sing...a one a, and a two a, and a three a...Kumbaya My Lord, Kumbaya....


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## strongirish

Not an argument, just a dicussion on good pipe and tobacco etiquette. Not picking apart his post either, just honing in on one word, crap used to describe tobaccos. If he's going to use that term, he is going to have to be big enough to take the flack from it.


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## indigosmoke

strongirish said:


> Not an argument, just a dicussion on good pipe and tobacco etiquette. Not picking apart his post either, just honing in on one word, crap used to describe tobaccos. If he's going to use that term, he is going to have to be big enough to take the flack from it.


Well I think this post is crap...lol...just kidding. Thanks for "educating" us on good pipe and tobacco etiquette. I guess we've found our resident Emily Post. (I'm joking BTW). Flame away, I'm big enough to take it.  (If you've seen my waist line you'll know I'm not kidding here).

Wait a minute, judging by your screen name I should shut up before I get my ass handed to me. I'm reminded of a story I once heard about a battle during the Civil War. After a Confederate defeat two of the opposing officers met and the Confederate said to the Union man, "You only won because you had more Irishmen!"

Disclaimer...this entire post is IMO, my 2 cents worth and any other similar trite statements that might be applicable.

PS - Just to be clear, I was really referring more directly to Granger's post above than to your response.


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## strongirish

Really no flaming on my part, just don't like to see any pipe tobacco demeaned. If it is truly a bad blend then it will be discontinued, but if it has the longevity of these blends, there has to be some merit to them. As a long time reviewer, people get turned off by flagrant criticism and like the reviews that give details. I also don't like the snobbery factor that some forums develope when only the exspensive pipe and tobaccos are accepted and anything else is crap. It dirves members away. I would like to see this forum grow, not shrink.


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## indigosmoke

strongirish said:


> Really no flaming on my part, just don't like to see any pipe tobacco demeaned. If it is truly a bad blend then it will be discontinued, but if it has the longevity of these blends, there has to be some merit to them. As a long time reviewer, people get turned off by flagrant criticism and like the reviews that give details. I also don't like the snobbery factor that some forums develope when only the exspensive pipe and tobaccos are accepted and anything else is crap. It dirves members away. I would like to see this forum grow, not shrink.


I hear you brother. I don't really think there is much of snobbery factor here on Puff, though. Just a lot of opinion, good natured banter and generous BOTLs. For every Dunhill puffing, 30 year old Nightcap smoking pretender here there are 10 or more Grabow lovin' PA smokers to counteract them. I think most newbies who check out the threads will see that pretty fast. That's why I like it here. I was just kidding around and trying to lighten the mood a bit. Sorry if that didn't come across in the posts. I'm for anything that helps Puff grow, however, so your point is well taken.

Personally, I can't stand Drastic, not because he hates OTCs but because he always seems to "fix" the Puff Pipe selection process so some God aweful funky shape gets picked.


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## indigosmoke

strongirish said:


> Really no flaming on my part


I just wanted to make clear I wasn't saying you were flaming anyone, though upon reflection I can see how my earlier post might have seemed that way. I was just teasing around and saying since I used the word "crap" in my post I was ready for any type of return fire.

This is a perfect example of why I think we stray into dangerous waters when we over analyze a brother's post. (Again, I'm not saying you are doing so in this thread.) Sometimes we all don't express ourselves as precisely as we would like and the fingers work faster than the brain.


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## drastic_quench

strongirish said:


> Not an argument, just a dicussion on good pipe and tobacco etiquette. Not picking apart his post either, just honing in on one word, crap used to describe tobaccos. If he's going to use that term, he is going to have to be big enough to take the flack from it.


To be fair, I called them cheap, low quality, and terrible - but not crap. The original post in this thread uses the word crap in reference to the quality of Swishers, and I think that's why the term was used so much on the first page.

There probably is a line to cross in this regard. If someone said, "I think Middleton's Cherry is delicious!" and I replied, "Middleton's Cherry is horseshit*, but you're alright by me." Well, that still clearly crosses a line. But then, you'd never see me go so far and behave so ungentlemanly.



Code:




*I don't really think this; just an extreme example.


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## indigosmoke

drastic_quench said:


> If someone said, "I think Middleton's Cherry is delicious!" and I replied, "Middleton's Cherry is horseshit*, but you're alright by me."


Well, at least we can all agree that Mixture 79 sucks, right? (Gosh, I hope Hef's not a member of this forum).


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## CaptainBlenderman

indigosmoke said:


> Having read lots of Drastic's posts, I really don't think he meant to deride anyone personally for their choice of tobacco. Besides that I think he's free to say anything he wishes or review tobaccos in any way he sees fit, including saying all OTCs suck if he wishes (or even gore my sacred cow, the Peterson pipe). I get his point about not adding IMO or my 2 cents worth to the end of every post. I have to stop myself from doing it at times. I get your points Granger and I agree with many of them (and I enjoy your detailed responses to many threads), but I think it must be realized that many of us post "off the cuff" so to speak and don't intend our statements to be analyzed and picked apart like they were intended for a peer reviewed journal or a doctoral thesis.
> 
> That being said, I can understand how some who love OTCs would smart at the criticisms constantly leveled at their favorite blends. After all, as the forums' resident Peterson pipe pimp I endure my share of Pete haters, with grace I hope.  Now let's all hold hands and sing...a one a, and a two a, and a three a...Kumbaya My Lord, Kumbaya....


+1 for you!

Termite, to your original question, I would tend to think that with gas station tobaccos you should expect something in the neighborhood of what others here said...if you don't mind Swisher Sweets for cigars, then you won't mind OTC tobaccos. That's my knee-jerk, but I fall in the camp of those who have never bothered with OTC tobaccos. It's not that I think they're crap (you have to smoke them before you can say that), I would just tend to not trust them as much over going to my local B&M where they have been blending their own for the last 50 years and it only costs an extra buck per ounce. I trust them, I trust where they get their leaf from and I trust their blending process having discussed it with them a bit. I don't know what I'm getting when I buy a big bag at a gas station and can't ask anyone about it. So as a rule of thumb, I assume I'm getting something at least a little better by buying bulk from the trustworthy B&M. From there you can start making arguments about quality as it concerns the tins but as I've said before, I haven't gone there myself to even know. It just strikes me that you could do better than gas station/drug store fare.


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## strongirish

All is well!

But for those of you that have not tried OTC tobaccos, just for the experience itself you ought to try some, it will surprise you. PA, H and H, Middleton's Cherry, SWR, and others can be quite good, particularly in a cob. I am not saying they are my regular smoke as I am a VaPer man myself, but I always keep some on hand for a change of pace.


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## indigosmoke

strongirish said:


> All is well!
> 
> But for those of you that have not tried OTC tobaccos, just for the experience itself you ought to try some, it will surprise you. PA, H and H, Middleton's Cherry, SWR, and others can be quite good, particularly in a cob. I am not saying they are my regular smoke as I am a VaPer man myself, but I always keep some on hand for a change of pace.


I think Sugar Barrel is a decent smoke and I think Walnut's not too bad either, but I'm not sure if you can find them OTC in many places anymore.


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## MarkC

Termite said:


> Guys, sorry I started an argument....wish I could delete it. :frown:


Nah, it's just a spirited discussion; if no one's throwing humidors or pipe tools, it's all good.


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## Termite

strongirish said:


> If he's going to use that term, he is going to have to be big enough to take the flack from it.


It's not a matter of "being big enough to handle it", its a matter of the fact that I have been on the cigar forum for several months and had cigars called everything in the book including "poop stick", "dog rocket", and "turd rocket" all just a cute way of saying "crap" and I have not seen anyone mind at all. I just don't want to get members of the forum at odds with each other :israel:

I've smoked a few swishers in college (50 or so while shooting pool with my buddies) and I didn't keep smoking, then five years later introduced to Kristoffs, Oliva's, and Padrons I can't get enough. :tea:


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## donovanrichardson

Very interesting and heated thread! I was just at Wal Mart and was checking out there selection. A lot of what people have said was there, Captain Black, Prince Albert, Middleton's Cherry and Vanilla and another blend. I have been curious about it but then again, I don't think I want to chance it. I've also heard they gum up your pipes. I don't think I could smoke the cherry or vanilla because it would just be overpowering. 

I am curious about it though, I mean a pouch is cheap as heck!


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## Mitch

strongirish said:


> Not an argument, just a dicussion on good pipe and tobacco etiquette. Not picking apart his post either, just honing in on one word, crap used to describe tobaccos. If he's going to use that term, he is going to have to be big enough to take the flack from it.


bro it's ok, there is a lot of tobacco that does taste like crap. I had a scotch the other day made by Jonnie Walker, and it tastes like crap(It was the red). If you have never said something taste like crap before, then you have the right to argue this point. But it is life, sometimes we think things taste like crap, and I am sure we have all said so.


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## strongirish

When someone asks about a tobacco and are told with authority it tastes like crap with authority, they will tend to pass it by. The shame of that would be manybe one of those blends might have been the manna he was looking for. 

If I say something tastes like crap, then it has been made improperly, not because it's my percieved notion. Either answer the mans question as to what it tastes like if you know or admit you don't know and let someone else answer. But catagorizing all over the counter blends as crap is not the way to do it.

I am mostly a pipe smoker, but do smoke a cigar now and then. I think most pipers tend to be of a different personality than cigars smokers just as they are different than cigarette smokers. Most pipers tend to be gentlemen. Maybe it's my age talking.


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## Mitch

strongirish said:


> When someone asks about a tobacco and are told with authority it tastes like crap with authority, they will tend to pass it by. The shame of that would be manybe one of those blends might have been the manna he was looking for.
> 
> If I say something tastes like crap, then it has been made improperly, not because it's my percieved notion. Either answer the mans question as to what it tastes like if you know or admit you don't know and let someone else answer. But catagorizing all over the counter blends as crap is not the way to do it.
> 
> I am mostly a pipe smoker, but do smoke a cigar now and then. I think most pipers tend to be of a different personality than cigars smokers just as they are different than cigarette smokers. Most pipers tend to be gentlemen. Maybe it's my age talking.


Maybe it is your age, not sure what you were getting at.

I smoke both cigars and a pipe. I have yet to smoke a cigar sold a a gas station that doesn't taste terrible. My dad loves the backwoods and swishers and I couldn't care less. I tell him to his face he smokes crap. He just laughs at me and tells me my cigar smells like s**t. Now us telling each other the item we buy has yet to keep us from buying what we like. I think the guys on here are just havign some fun, don't take is so seriously.


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## Jack Straw

Mitch, that's not what Earl's getting at - there's a difference between busting balls with a buddy and giving open minded advice to a newbie. :2


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## strongirish

If that's what you call fun, have at it. As the saying goes, you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink.


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## strongirish

Thankyou Jack Straw, that is exactly what I was alluding to.


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## ruralhipster

indigosmoke said:


> Well, at least we can all agree that Mixture 79 sucks, right? (Gosh, I hope Hef's not a member of this forum).


Unanimous derision on "the mixture that must not be named" is impossible since I kinda like it. Arguing taste is generally a pointless endeavor anyway.


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## indigosmoke

ruralhipster said:


> Unanimous derision on "the mixture that must not be named" is impossible since I kinda like it. Arguing taste is generally a pointless endeavor anyway.


Well, now I've heard everything! :flypig:

The mixture that must not be named...now that's funny.

Admitting you like Mixture 79 (oh, crap...I named it)...now that takes guts.

RG Bump coming your way (if I had a Playboy Bunny on hand I send one of those your way too).


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## Granger

drastic_quench said:


> That's cool that your family is in the biz. In my view, the low quality that I perceive in a lot of OTCs stems not so much from the farmer's leaf, but from how it was treated by the blender. So much happens once the leaf reaches the blending houses. I'm confident the good people at Borkum Riff could be given a secret stash of the finest Syrian Latakia that miraculously survived the infamous warehouse fire and only improved in taste for it, and still turn out a product that strips the enamel off of my teeth. AND some other smoker would very well rate it a smashing four star success. C'est la vie. I won't think less of the man, nor should he think less of himself.


For some smokers a few chemicals can ruin a smoke, for others it is not a problem. My own tastes my be influenced by the fact that I grew up in a family they smoked pipes, and OTCs were a part of that. Of course, the older generation ALWAYS lets you know that OTC were better 20 years ago, and I would probably agree there.


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## Granger

indigosmoke said:


> I think it must be realized that many of us post "off the cuff" so to speak and don't intend our statements to be analyzed and picked apart like they were intended for a peer reviewed journal or a doctoral thesis.


Touche'

I must suppress my instincts! I tend to get caught on WHAT was said, and the differentiation between opinion and fact.

I will try to keep my editing pen down!


indigosmoke said:


> That being said, I can understand how some who love OTCs would smart at the criticisms constantly leveled at their favorite blends. After all, as the forums' resident Peterson pipe pimp I endure my share of Pete haters, with grace I hope.  Now let's all hold hands and sing...a one a, and a two a, and a three a...Kumbaya My Lord, Kumbaya....


Well, that is because Peterson's are crappy pipes and they are only smoked by crappy people who are not REAL Pipe Smokers!*

*AUTHOR'S NOTE:_The cold printed word of a message board often fails to convey emotion and inflection, therefore I will clarify that this last sentence is an attempted bon mot, or clever remark. The humor is based in the fact that I apply the "crap" (here extenuated to "crappy") comment aimed at OTC tobaccos to the Peterson Pipes, and users, that the author of the original posts utilizes, after vehemently protesting the application of this term to OTC's that I favor. Some might call this an attempt at irony._*

**AUTHOR'S SECOND NOTE: The first note was a joke too.


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## Granger

indigosmoke said:


> Well, at least we can all agree that Mixture 79 sucks, right? (Gosh, I hope Hef's not a member of this forum).


Oh MAN IT IS TOTAL CRAP and anyone who smokers it...well, this just say they have crap in their HEAD!*

*AUTHOR'S NOTE: Please see previous notes!


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## indigosmoke

ROFLMAO...Seriously Jason. I'm glad we're all laughing in this thread again! You're a good man, and I wish I had half the mind for logical analysis that you do. I'm afraid I'm more of a right brain type. My wife's the published academic in the family.


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## Firedawg

:deadhorse:


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## MarkC

Granger said:


> Of course, the older generation ALWAYS lets you know that OTC were better 20 years ago, and I would probably agree there.


I wasn't going to say anything, but I could have sworn Borkum Riff whiskey wasn't that bad back in the seventies. Does this mean I'm officially a codger?


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## dj1340

MarkC said:


> I wasn't going to say anything, but I could have sworn Borkum Riff whiskey wasn't that bad back in the seventies. Does this mean I'm officially a codger?


Yes Mark it does!! Right along with me I guess, Prince Albert, Capt Black, Borkum Riff were what I was smoking and I thought there just couldn't be anything better. Mind you I grew up in a very small town with no tobacco shops.


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## CaptainBlenderman

Mitch said:


> I smoke both cigars and a pipe. I have yet to smoke a cigar sold a a gas station that doesn't taste terrible. My dad loves the backwoods and swishers and I couldn't care less. I tell him to his face he smokes crap. He just laughs at me and tells me my cigar smells like s**t. Now us telling each other the item we buy has yet to keep us from buying what we like. I think the guys on here are just havign some fun, don't take is so seriously.


Mitch (and it feels weird typing that to address someone else), I can't help but agree. I'm a self-proclaimed beer snob and usually tell folks who drink the piss water they call beer (I'll have the decency not to name brands here...but you beer lovers know what I'm talking about) that they are not drinking beer (in other words, it's crap). I don't bother quantifying it either. It's a strong opinion based on what I consider to be love of "good" beer. Granted, it's not going to win any awards for diplomacy, but to be fair, I usually only say it to friends who know that I'm just razzing them a bit...which brings me to the next point...



Jack Straw said:


> Mitch, that's not what Earl's getting at - there's a difference between busting balls with a buddy and giving open minded advice to a newbie. :2


...yeah, that's pretty sound too. I can understand the necessity to be genteel with someone asking a bona fide beginner's question. Just the same, I don't think it off base to recommend that they start with something solid and I think it's an understandable opinion that drug store/gas station variety tobacco is largely not what most guys on this forum are going to recommend for something solid, any more than you would see the cigar crowd answering a newb question by recommending Swishers.



Granger said:


> For some smokers a few chemicals can ruin a smoke, for others it is not a problem. My own tastes my be influenced by the fact that I grew up in a family they smoked pipes, and OTCs were a part of that. Of course, the older generation ALWAYS lets you know that OTC were better 20 years ago, and I would probably agree there.


Ah, nostalgia. Now that's something different altogether. But seeing as how so much has changed over the years as some things have become increasingly mass-produced, I think your assertion that OTC tobaccos were better 20 years ago is probably pretty sound.

All that said, I enjoy it when guys on this forum go back and forth like this. There's nothing like a lively discussion to fire things up a bit (as long as no one gets too angry or fevered about it). Y'all are good sports and all's well that ends well.

Okay then... :focus:


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## CaptainBlenderman

dj1340 said:


> Yes Mark it does!! Right along with me I guess, Prince Albert, Capt Black, Borkum Riff were what I was smoking and I thought there just couldn't be anything better. Mind you I grew up in a very small town with no tobacco shops.


Hah, good reminder! Everyone started somewhere, didn't they?


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## Jack Straw

The swishers comparison is NOT accurate, by the way.

No one smokes swishers, then try premium hand-rolled cigars, and then still thinks swishers are good.

PLENTY of people smoke Prince Albert, then try 'top shelf' pipe tobacco, and still do in fact think Prince Albert is good.


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## Granger

MarkC said:


> I wasn't going to say anything, but I could have sworn Borkum Riff whiskey wasn't that bad back in the seventies. Does this mean I'm officially a codger?


Of course not...and that hearing aide, walker, and your uncontrollable attraction to "early bird specials" means nothing!


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## drastic_quench

Well Swishers are a special kind of hell. Perhaps Dutch Masters is a better fit.


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## Mitch

Jack Straw said:


> The swishers comparison is NOT accurate, by the way.
> 
> No one smokes swishers, then try premium hand-rolled cigars, and then still thinks swishers are good.


You are wrong my friend. I have two that are actually blood to me. THey love swishers and backwoods, and both have smoked premium cigars. My dad doesn't like premiums cause they aren't sweet, and much prefers cigs. My brother loves the Ashton cigar line, and swisher cigar line.


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## sounds7

Granger said:


> For some smokers a few chemicals can ruin a smoke, for others it is not a problem. My own tastes my be influenced by the fact that I grew up in a family they smoked pipes, and OTCs were a part of that. Of course, the older generation ALWAYS lets you know that OTC were better 20 years ago, and I would probably agree there.


I grew up on a farm in the midwest as well. My grandad was a big fan of Prince Albert both in his pipe and in his hand rolled cigs. People have different tastes and a lot of that has to do with experiences, and other factors. This is not only true for our smoking experiences but also other things in life we enjoy. Sometimes we vary from these experiences and for good reason. For example, my family thought for some reason that fried spam was a decent meal every once in a while. Now that Im grown I can tell you I have never popped a can of spam nor do I intend to. The same can be said for Prince Albert I suppose. But you guys are correct, The pipe is to enjoy in any way you enjoy it and smoke what you like in it. It is a personal pleasure and for me, Chemicals and fake flavorings ruin the experience but I certainly wont argue that to someone else that would not be the case and in fact might even enhance the experience.


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## indigosmoke

Let's face it, there are no absolutes in the pipe smoking world. It's all a matter of taste, which makes advising anyone on what to try a difficult business (though that never stops me.) How can I possibly know what anyone else would like to smoke, particularly a newbie who can't give me a frame of reference to compare blends to (and even then it's a tough thing to judge.) Andrew recently posted that he didn't think Dark Flake Unscented was much like Irish Flake really, and I find them peas in a pod. Different of course, but similar in many ways and actually quite complementary. I could see myself smoking them out of the same pipe, with the ghosts of each enhancing the experience of smoking the other. And tastes seem to change (I won't say develop, with all that implies) over time. I used to enjoy lighter, low nic blends without really much (or any) latakia, and now I'm pretty much exactly the opposite in my tastes. I now can't imagine not smoking Irish Flake and many English blends which I love (and my love of latakia is a fairly recent thing and came on quite suddenly too.)

If someone said that they loaded a bowl of dried rhinoceros poop in their cob and smoked it and then posted, "God, no one could like this stuff!" Two minutes later someone would post, "Well, my long lost great, great uncle's aunt's third cousin twice removed on her step sister's side used to smoke 10 bowls of dried rhino poop a day and loved it," if for no other reason than to be a contrarian.


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## strongirish

One thing I will say, this is an interesting bunch of smokers. Though some seem to have a love of using the word crap to describe things. I actually like cheap beer, heck I like all beer. I usually recommend a new smoker to start on Prince Albert for the following reasons, it is very mild with little or no tongue bite, it stays lit well, practically smokes itself which is important for a newbie, and it gives him a base flavor to branch out from. I also agree that Borkum Riff was better 20 or more years ago, I used to mix it with Carter Hall and it was great stuff. Over my 40 years of pipe smoking, I have learned that everyone has their own tastes, their own methods of smoking, their own habits and I don't knock any of them. They are still brothers of the briar. No snob in me.


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## Granger

sounds7 said:


> For example, my family thought for some reason that fried spam was a decent meal every once in a while. Now that Im grown I can tell you I have never popped a can of spam nor do I intend to.


You had to go and talk shit about Spam? Oh, the gloves are off and you are going down!

It is ON like Donkey King!:fencing:


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## Granger

indigosmoke said:


> If someone said that they loaded a bowl of dried rhinoceros poop in their cob and smoked it and then posted, "God, no one could like this stuff!" Two minutes later someone would post, "Well, my long lost great, great uncle's aunt's third cousin twice removed on her step sister's side used to smoke 10 bowls of dried rhino poop a day and loved it," if for no other reason than to be a contrarian.


Oh, and you had to go and talk shit about Rhino Poop!


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## ultramag

Granger said:


> You had to go and talk shit about Spam? Oh, the gloves are off and you are going down!
> 
> It is ON like Donkey King!:fencing:


Well in all fairness I think the Spam of 20 years ago was better so it can't be compared to the Spam sounds7 has had. And for the record, I've been eating Spam for 35+ years so I must know.


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## strongirish

I like Spam and eggs a lot!


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## indigosmoke

Sorry, I couldn't resist.


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## indigosmoke

ultramag said:


> Well in all fairness I think the Spam of 20 years ago was better so it can't be compared to the Spam sounds7 has had. And for the record, I've been eating Spam for 35+ years so I must know.


You must be right. I believe 4noggins has a 25 year old tin of spam in their consignment section for $76 dollars and I recently saw a tin of the Murray's vintage go for $83 on eBay.


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## teedles915

I have read throught this thread, and have seen the varying opinions from all. I have to say I haven't seen a wrong answer from either side. I think this is one of those things that people must agree to disagree on. I think a lot of goea back to whether or not a person is a fn of aromatics. If one hated aros I could see how OTC tobacco would not appeal to them, a mot of them have a casing of ome type. Now I am sure that they're are exceptions to this as some aro fans may not like your standard OTCs. 

For me it is hit or miss. Personally while I love the smell of the Captain Black blends I want nothing to do with the stuff. I can not stand the goopy feeling of it. As far a Borkum Riff goes I don't mind the flavor but it is the only Baccy I have found that I can't control the bite on. The stuff just eats my tongue alive. Half&Half, and Carter Hall are so so to me, i can take them or leave them but they don't offer a lot as far as flavor goes in my opinion. I personally love Prince Albert, it offers true burley taste without a lot of casing, and a nice room note. I haven't had Sugar Barrell, but definetly wanna give it a try when I find it somewhere.


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## Granger

ultramag said:


> Well in all fairness I think the Spam of 20 years ago was better so it can't be compared to the Spam sounds7 has had. And for the record, I've been eating Spam for 35+ years so I must know.


Well, in a double blind research study it was found that Spam is preferred by that majority of people who try it. So to denigrate Spam in such a manner that could influence opinion, when it is obviously the minority opinion, reeks of a reckless disregard for the taste buds of others!


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## Granger

indigosmoke said:


> You must be right. I believe 4noggins has a 25 year old tin of spam in their consignment section for $76 dollars and I recently saw a tin of the Murray's vintage go for $83 on eBay.


If you ever see any Pre-renaming Spam (George A. Hormel & Company changed their name to Hormel Food Group in 1993) then you have got a prize. I think they started using cheaper ingriedents and more chemical flavorings around that time.

(For the unitiated Spam was created because at the time pork shoulder was just thrown away during the processing of pigs. Think about it, Spam is the meat that DIDN'T go into Sausage!)


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## indigosmoke

Granger said:


> (For the unitiated Spam was created because at the time pork shoulder was just thrown away during the processing of pigs. Think about it, Spam is the meat that DIDN'T go into Sausage!)


LOL... we have seriously hijacked this thread but I hope the OP doesn't mind because I haven't laughed this hard on Puff in a while.


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## Firedawg




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## shannensmall

I know there would be some POed Hawaiians if they read y'all talking smack about Spamm.

Seriously though, this thread is interesting. As a newb to pipe smoking, all I can say is I appreciate being told what the vast majority thinks tastes like crap. It doesn't mean I won't try something, it just means that brand or blend may not be were I start. I want the most out of this experience, so that means I want to smoke something that the majority favors. 

I have, back in the day, smoked cherry and vanilla drug store blends and honestly could not tell much difference from them to the cigarettes I was trying to quit, save be the overpowering vanilla and cherry flavors. I think that's one reason why I'm apprehensive when it comes to other Aros.


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## Mitch

I had a uncle once who ate Spam, not sure if he made it.


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## Jogi

To the OP, give them a shot, *maybe* you'll like some of them, who knows... Even if you don't, you won't have much to lose...


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## Mitch

Jogi said:


> To the OP, give them a shot, *maybe* you'll like some of them, who knows... Even if you don't, you won't have much to lose...


Other then a nasty taste in your mouth.


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