# Razz's Humidity Beads Project



## RazzBarlow (Dec 8, 2009)

Those that know me know that I'm somewhat of a geek. Anything technological or scientific instantly grabs my attention. I'm a freak for Mythbusters and shows like it. For that reason, humidity beads fascinated me from the first time I heard about them.

I decided to make my own humidity beads. The concept is simple...most salts have a "saturation point". That's why a salt test for our hygrometers works. Sodium Chloride (common table salt) has a saturation point equal to 75% Relative Humidity. If 75% rH were the ideal storage humidity for our cigars, we wouldn't have any problem at all. We would just keep a salt tray in our humidors and maintain the perfect humidity. (salty cigars being a completely seperate issue)

Like I said, the concept is simple. The execution is not simple. I've spent weeks researching and experimenting with different formulas and application methods. (The Merck Index has been light reading for me lately)

I've finally come up with a combination that appears to work how I want it to.










It's only been 24 hours, but so far they are maintaining rH perfectly. I put 8 oz in a sealed container along with a salt-tested hygrometer to monitor the results.










I will continue to post the results as I monitor them. I am excited at this new project. Before anyone asks....Yes, I will be offering them for sale once I know they work the way I want them to. (I'm a perfectionist) But I don't want to put that info in this thread out of respect for the board members and administrators. When the time comes, I'll start a sale thread for them.


----------



## CIGAR4TSZ (Jan 12, 2010)

Excellent project can't wait to see more information, I'll be looking forward to more updates on this.


----------



## Claes (Dec 19, 2008)

How did you go about making them? I am curious about the process.


----------



## gibson_es (Jan 23, 2010)

yea. what is the process... kinda cool imho


----------



## jaydub13 (Jan 13, 2010)

Most excellent! But I wouldnt ask about the process... trade secrets and all that....


----------



## southoz (Sep 13, 2009)

thats great work Marshall, maybe you could bomb people with these instead of cigars.....

what if i pm'd you, would you then give me the instructions on how to create these beauties???


----------



## Claes (Dec 19, 2008)

jaydub13 said:


> Most excellent! But I wouldnt ask about the process... trade secrets and all that....


I can appreciate the sentiment but I don't intend to try and create them. I don't need to know the Hooters hot wing recipe if I want to know how to make hot wings.

However, I can also appreciate someone taking pride in their work and wanting to keep it to themselves. All great magicians don't share their tricks.

This thread seems like its starting to take a wrong turn so, Great job man! I like to see the ingenuity! :focus:


----------



## gibson_es (Jan 23, 2010)

yea, i too am not trying to rob him of anything. i have enough humidifiers and such, i just like to know things. i spend most of my day learning things. its my side hobby, having knowledge. thats all.


also, i failed to mention how impressed i am that you figured out how to do this. i never thought to try. great job. and if i ever need more beads (the slippery slope wont let me be content for too long) i will hit you up, assume you have it all figured out by then, and assuming i am not in too big of a rush to get it seasoned.


----------



## ShortyStogie (Oct 7, 2009)

Good stuff, razz! Great stuff, actually.

Like you, I too am insanely obsessive about gathering knowledge about this stuff.

Unfortunately, unlike you, I don't have the discipline to actually go out and do it... I would love to know the process, but I think this could end up being a very interesting commercial venture for you. If I were you, i would perfect the process before putting it out on forums... if even then!

If you need some help in the machining aspect of it (you know, streamlining the actual production of the beads) I'd be more than happy to help out... Have a little bit of experience in that sorta thing.

Good luck to you... You rock!

-SS


----------



## RazzBarlow (Dec 8, 2009)

Update: Day 2, still holding steady


----------



## ekengland07 (May 20, 2009)

RazzBarlow said:


> Like I said, the concept is simple. The execution is not simple. I've spent weeks researching and experimenting with different formulas and application methods. (The Merck Index has been light reading for me lately)


Very cool and interesting idea. I own two copies of the Merck Index and now you have me intrigued. Looking forward to see how this finishes.


----------



## MrMayorga (Feb 14, 2008)

Hey Marshall, VEERRRYYYY INTERESTING! If you need a *beta tester*, I just bought a Vinotemp that needs humidification. LOL


----------



## socapots (Feb 22, 2010)

nice stuff man.
I cant say i have ever even seen beads of anykind.


----------



## Brilliant (Jan 28, 2010)

op2: Cant wait to see the outcome


----------



## socapots (Feb 22, 2010)

RazzBarlow said:


> Update: Day 2, still holding steady


so how long are you anticipating the beads to last? 
As in what would you like to see out of them?
Id think in a sealed enviroment they should be ok until they eventually break down completly right?
then again i guess whatever commercial stuff out there would be the same..?
no?


----------



## RazzBarlow (Dec 8, 2009)

Update: Day 3, still holding steady. It rained fairly steadily for 2 days here, so the ambient rH is pretty high. (I didn't measure outside the tupperware)

Obviously, my photo skills this morning are pretty lame. Apologies for that.


----------



## RazzBarlow (Dec 8, 2009)

socapots said:


> so how long are you anticipating the beads to last?
> As in what would you like to see out of them?
> Id think in a sealed enviroment they should be ok until they eventually break down completly right?
> then again i guess whatever commercial stuff out there would be the same..?
> no?


The beads should last indefinitely, as in forever. The experiment I'm running right now is to see how stable they are and how long they would need to go between recharging. Recharging them should be simple, just add distilled water by spritzing them lightly, similar to other products out there.

They're in a sealed food container, that's obviously pretty airtight. But I'm opening the container every day to take photos and to simulate what they would experience in a humidor.

Thanks for the interest and the questions!


----------



## socapots (Feb 22, 2010)

RazzBarlow said:


> The beads should last indefinitely, as in forever. The experiment I'm running right now is to see how stable they are and how long they would need to go between recharging. Recharging them should be simple, just add distilled water by spritzing them lightly, similar to other products out there.
> 
> They're in a sealed food container, that's obviously pretty airtight. But I'm opening the container every day to take photos and to simulate what they would experience in a humidor.
> 
> Thanks for the interest and the questions!


well if you do want the substance tested in a cold dry climate.. 
I can help you out for sure. But it will only be cold up here for another 2 or 3 months. the RH in my house right now is 30 to 35. and will be as such for the next few months. 
Which reminds me i should check on my last cigar in the humidor. last i checked last week it was only 45 in there.. not a number i like.


----------



## Cigary (Oct 19, 2007)

I love experiements that have a happy ending. This looks like one that will be a huge success. WTG Marshall.


----------



## bdw1984 (May 6, 2009)

All I can say is wow. I don't know how I've missed this thread for the past few days but I am very impressed. Great job my brother, hope it keeps on working out!


----------



## WaxingMoon (Aug 13, 2009)

That's really cool, Marshall! Perhaps you and _cubicdissection _should get together for some packaging ideas? He's come up with some _really cool bead_ trays with his laser cutter... And then.... we can include them in my humidors!!! :razz:


----------



## RazzBarlow (Dec 8, 2009)

Got my first non-encouraging test results of this experiment. The rH dropped 5 points in 24 hours. That's a big swing and just the kind of fluctuation that beads are meant to eliminate. I'm not going to panic, we'll keep monitoring and see what happens.



I mentally toyed with the idea of not posting these results. But that just isn't an option!


----------



## FiveStar (Jan 7, 2010)

Ya know Razz, I'm not the most experienced bead user, but there look to be lots of white beads in there. If you're taking the lid off daily, maybe it's just time to rehydrate? Dunno, but to me it doesn't seem like there's anywhere near 60% of the beads hydrated from the pic, so maybe these aren't terribly discouraging results? 

This is a cool experiment man! Can't wait to see how it concludes.


----------



## RazzBarlow (Dec 8, 2009)

FiveStar said:


> Ya know Razz, I'm not the most experienced bead user, but there look to be lots of white beads in there. If you're taking the lid off daily, maybe it's just time to rehydrate? Dunno, but to me it doesn't seem like there's anywhere near 60% of the beads hydrated from the pic, so maybe these aren't terribly discouraging results?
> 
> This is a cool experiment man! Can't wait to see how it concludes.


I use a flash when I take that photo, because I take it at 0'dark 30 when I get up in the morning. So, there aren't as many white beads as the photo suggests.

But, for the sake of argument, let's say you're right and they just need to be re-hydrated. How would you feel about beads that have to be re-hydrated after only 4 days? That would pretty much be a PITA.

I appreciate the encouragement, but I'm pretty bummed about it right now. Like I said, I'm not going to panic, but early results suggest I'm going back to the drawing board.


----------



## Coop D (Oct 19, 2008)

Pretty cool so far!!!


----------



## ca21455 (Jul 23, 2006)

I appreciate your efforts in this experiment. May I suggest some other testing to see how the beads work?

Using beads acclimated to 65% humidity, put them in a container at 60% humidity and see if they can stabilize at the desired level. Using different volumes you can determine the capacity of a given quantity of beads.

This could also be done in a 70% environment to determine the dehumidification properties of the beads.

Having this test data you could compare your beads to the others available and determine which is best.

Just geeking along with ya!


----------



## Cigary (Oct 19, 2007)

Hang in there Marshall,,,I suspect you're still on to something here. I kinda like what John is talking about also as far as exploring other parameters. Rome wasn't built in a day and the rest of us can live vicariously thru you in this experiment.


----------



## RazzBarlow (Dec 8, 2009)

Final update:

This morning the hygrometer reading is 58% rH. I consider this formula unacceptable and will continue researching a new formula.

Thanks for all your interest.


----------



## presidentbryce (Oct 9, 2008)

Very interesting experiment! Sorry to see that it didn't work out this time. Keep at it. You're bound to find the right formula eventually. Encouraging quote: "Something about Thomas Edison and trying lots of things before coming up with the right light bulb filament, blah blah blah." But seriously, don't give up.


----------



## BTcigars (Jun 30, 2009)

Sorry it didnt work out this time but thanks for this thread, very interesting stuff and best of luck on batch #2.


----------



## Esoteric (Jun 15, 2009)

Very awesome!! I have thought about trying to do this but my knowledge in chemistry leaves much to be desired. I have had long throughts about what materials might work and such but haven't gotten past a very basic drawing board.

I live in a ******* town (outskirts of Panama City, FL) so I thought about some duct tape, plastic beads and salt HAHA JK  

Good luck and hang in there. It does take a good amount of failure to generally make a great product (unless you luck out). Edison took 1001 attempts for a light bulb but I think you are WAY ahead of that margin!!

Let us know the results and if you need testers lol.


----------

