# pipe snobs



## a.paul (Jan 17, 2007)

what is it that makes some boards (and apparently people) pipe/tobacco snobs? 

I mean...what's with people who can smoke 1 bowl of Bracken Flake and tell me "ah yes...I detected figs, persimmon and chocolate upon lighting, and halfway through the bowl I began to detect a touch of honey the tobacco must be topped with". 

I call bullspit on that. 

I mean...honey? Halfway through a bowl of Bracken Flake?

Of course, I have no regard for people who swish wine around like listerine, spit, and tell me about all the complex and sundry flavors they just experienced. 

If you like wine, drink the crap. If you like pipes or cigars, smoke them. But don't tell me you can taste honey halfway through a freakin strong baccy blend--or at least don't be lookin' down at me because I think you're crazy...that I smoke the same stuff because I really like the flavor, and if I wanted to taste honey I'd go knock over a bee.

These friggin people. It's about the best part of this place--humble though it may be. :tu

:sb

And I'm probably not done yet...:c:c:


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## a.paul (Jan 17, 2007)

And I forgot about another of my favorites--someone I ran into after having it mentioned to me by IHT...the "My Dunhill has a fill, and they say they never do and I'm going to make a big ass mofoing stink in public about it!"

"well, how about a picture?"

"I'm not going to post a picture, it's between me and Dunhill."

Then why'd you post about it in the first place, and keep the damn thread going for 5-6 pages and 4 months? What are you, a freakin' attention whore? Didn't your mommy tell you you were pretty often enough as a young attention whore?

Those are the same people who post things like "oh, that new Peterson you picked up is very nice! It sort of reminds me of the grain pattern on my 1935 Dunhill!"

Makes me wanna puke. In their stinkin Dunny.


I said I wasn't done yet....

(I've been reading other pipe forums the last couple of days. I've had about all I can stand of it.)


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## IrishCorona (Mar 7, 2007)

I've really enjoyed reading yaz since I've been here.

This forum is great and so full of rants.....hehehe.

I agree with you on this in many ways and you sound way to negative and Cynical brother(no offense of course). Fuk em bro, their's always going to be persons(especially on the net when they're hiding behind their computers) whom are insecure wannabes that are completely full of shit. Then their are those who truly do have incredibly god given palates to detect the most subtle Nuances in wine, tabak...etc. etc. 

So many in *Hobbies* in this life wanna be the know it alls and pro's who's opinions are suppose to be more valid then many others. It's usually BS and it's amazing how many sheeple believe them.

Your a smart dude form what I've read of you here, don't waste any more of your mental NRG on these people(and any BS like it) as they a dime a dozen and 1 shoudn't judge. Aspiring to be a *pro* on anything is great but the difference between a Pro and a Snob is simple IME.

BTW.........I tasted some 15 Year old Australian desert Honey with subtle hints of Macedamian nuts in the bowl of Pirate Kake I had last night......j/k:r:r


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## EvanS (Dec 29, 2006)

a.paul said:


> ...
> 
> I said I wasn't done yet....
> 
> (I've been reading other pipe forums the last couple of days. I've had about all I can stand of it.)


Good to have you back over here, with the commoners, giving a report.

I hear ya - tons of info that I personally will never use. But that's ok, I'm ok, you're ok...even they are ok


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## The Pirate (May 20, 2007)

The tobacco reviews forum cracks me up the way some try to describe the taste of tobacco. It is as if they are trying to out do each other in their written descriptios to get some kind of recognition.It can't be as simple as" I didn't care for tobacco X because of the heavily cased flavoring." Read some posts by Bob Runowski..he is a tobacco blender and his descriptions are in plain english, not in fancy prose.I like when they slam the producer of a tobacco for making a blend that they did not like.
Ken


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## sspolv (Dec 26, 2005)

I judge my tobacco reviews like I judge the ingredients list of food: if I'm reading it and I have to look things up or can't pronounce a word, it's probably not good for me. Luckily enough you guys are doing a stellar "jug of milk" job of things here.


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## tedski (Oct 1, 2004)

To answer your first question, I'll just point out that people can be snobbish about almost anything ... pipes, cigars, houses, cars, the college they attended, etc. However, maybe you are mistaking their enthusiasm as something it is not. In any case, it's not something you can control, so why let it bother you?

And who's to say what flavors someone is getting while smoking tobacco? There are many people in this world with a very heightened sense of taste ... and just because they can pick out flavors that most of us cannot then why should they be disbelieved? I do think tobacco reviews do tend to go overboard sometimes, but I concentrate instead on the overall positive/negative experiences and blend components to see if it's something I might want to try.

I also read the Dunhill fill story ... and while it was rather lengthy, I did find it quite interesting ( and I'm not a fan of Dunhill pipes ). And there were pictures posted - so maybe you just missed them.

It sounds like maybe you had a bad day yesterday and just needed to vent in general. Perhaps next time you are feeling this way you should just go and light up a favorite smoke, have a drink and mellow out instead of walking around with a chip on your shoulder.


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## a.paul (Jan 17, 2007)

tedski said:


> To answer your first question, I'll just point out that people can be snobbish about almost anything ... pipes, cigars, houses, cars, the college they attended, etc. However, maybe you are mistaking their enthusiasm as something it is not. In any case, it's not something you can control, so why let it bother you?
> 
> And who's to say what flavors someone is getting while smoking tobacco? There are many people in this world with a very heightened sense of taste ... and just because they can pick out flavors that most of us cannot then why should they be disbelieved? I do think tobacco reviews do tend to go overboard sometimes, but I concentrate instead on the overall positive/negative experiences and blend components to see if it's something I might want to try.
> 
> ...


There were no pictures of the pipe posted. he did post a picture of the "fill". He specifically said he wouldn't post a picture of the pipe--hell, IHT is the first one who mentioned it to me.

As for the rest of it...

:fu

seriously.

BTW--this is what I mean. People who tell me how I should feel about something, what I should taste or whatever. I won't tolerate it--anywhere.

I'm done.


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## tedski (Oct 1, 2004)

a.paul said:


> I'm done.


Actually, I think you're a bit overdone. :tg

Don't forget to kick the dog when you get home tonight. 

And have a great weekend p


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## Kayak_Rat (Nov 28, 2005)

a.paul said:


> what is it that makes some boards (and apparently people) pipe/tobacco snobs?
> 
> I mean...what's with people who can smoke 1 bowl of Bracken Flake and tell me "ah yes...I detected figs, persimmon and chocolate upon lighting, and halfway through the bowl I began to detect a touch of honey the tobacco must be topped with".
> 
> ...


SILENCE UNDERLING!!!!!!!!

Go back to your Dutch Master in your second rate, missouri meershaum.

 Just kidding. Thats why I love it here, very little snobbery.


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## Mister Moo (Sep 8, 2005)

This leads me to post a new thread - "Who knows what they're talking about at tobaccoreview.com? Name names."

That whole snob thing has me confused. I learn a lot from guys who sweat all the little details and write long copy; and I really did taste "grilled cheese sandwich" smoking a Famous 3000 cigar once. Is it snobby to say that? If not, would it have been a snob if I said I had instead tasted a "moderately young camenbert spread thickly on charcoal-toasted croissant"? Six of one, half dozen of another - just more words?

Frankly I wonder what the hell most people are talking about when they tell about all the flavors they taste in a cigar; and then, sometime I don't. I'm just not sure who is a taste snob, who is imagining stuff and who really has a hyperzoid sense of taste.

I figure a snob sez that there is no pipe worth smoking if it isn't a pre-1961 Dunhill (no microfills). I'm not so sure a snob sez he can taste roasted duck l'orange in a puff of 1979 Bengal Slices (or something like that).


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## Mr. Pink (Oct 22, 2005)

I think the orginial post is a bit harsh and contains hints of smoked hickory...


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## IrishCorona (Mar 7, 2007)

Mister Moo said:


> This leads me to post a new thread - "Who knows what they're talking about at tobaccoreview.com? Name names."
> 
> That whole snob thing has me confused. I learn a lot from guys who sweat all the little details and write long copy; and I really did taste "grilled cheese sandwich" smoking a Famous 3000 cigar once. Is it snobby to say that? If not, would it have been a snob if I said I had instead tasted a "moderately young camenbert spread thickly on charcoal-toasted croissant"? Six of one, half dozen of another - just more words?
> 
> ...


Good post,

I've enjoyed reading some of the reviews on Tabakreviews.com.. It's like everything else in life, one must take it with a grain of salt. It does appear that their's a bunch of possible wannabe future Elitists writing reviews their....lol.

Seriously, I reread the original post and it sounds like a bunch of ole women with no life, siting on a porch talking ish about everyone.

To each their own, I always *opened up my wine*....but why the fuk would I spend that much money to then spit it out..hehe.


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## F. Prefect (Jan 14, 2007)

a.paul said:


> And I forgot about another of my favorites--someone I ran into after having it mentioned to me by IHT...the "My Dunhill has a fill, and they say they never do and I'm going to make a big ass mofoing stink in public about it!"
> 
> "well, how about a picture?"
> 
> ...


Yep, there's no doubt if you begin to lose any appreciation for this forum, hop on over to the usenet, or read some of the reviews in tobaccoreviews.com (this is not intended to be general critisism of tobaccoreviews.com as many of the reviews are well thought out and accurate) and get a dose of what you've been missing while spending your time in here.

That's not to say there aren't any inaccurate or outright lame posts that show up here from time to time, but IMHO this forum has a far more learned and knowledgable membership that any other related forum I have visited, and if the old hands are willing to freely share their knowledge and experiences with newcomers, hopefully it will remain this way.:tup

F. Prefect


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## LSU Tiger (Jun 9, 2006)

Just to throw this out, there are people who professionally taste test foods, etc. Their sense of taste is far better than the average, therefore, they make the "big moo-la." Every person's tastes are different and for pipe smokers, a given tobacco tastes different to each smoker. I bought a tin of Ashton's "Winding Road" last week and in the course of several bowls, I can't taste the "caramel and apricot" the label mentions. I taste a smokey sweetness I can't attach a name to.

My point is, all reviews are subjective, so why not cutt'em a little slack? BTW, I prefer Dunhill and Upshall pipes. Does that make me a snob?


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## JohnnyFlake (May 31, 2006)

*I really don't understand the problem here!!!:al*
Hell, I can't stand Bracken Flake, what crap. However, on the rare occasions that I have smoked it, I was able to taste lots of honeyed nuances, especially during the last half of the bowl. In fact there were some hints of caramel, vanilla and cinnamon mixed in, as well, and very lite whiffs of saffron!!!

Johnny


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## NCRadioMan (Feb 28, 2005)

JohnnyFlake said:


> Hell, I can't stand Bracken Flake, what crap. However, on the rare occasions that I have smoked it, I was able to taste lots of honeyed nuances, especially during the last half of the bowl. In fact there were some hints of caramel, vanilla and cinnamon mixed in, as well, and very lite whiffs of saffron!!!
> 
> Johnny


Obviously, anybody that tastes such things are lying. 

I would never ass/u/me that what people taste is not what they taste. That is snobbish, to me.


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## IHT (Dec 27, 2003)

i think this is what tony's rant was about.


a.paul said:


> These friggin people. It's about the best part of this place--humble though it may be. :tu


the differences between boards. be it pipe or cigar boards. the "no snob" policy has even made its way down here to our little portion.

again, "i" think that's what he's getting at. sure, we have some ppl here who can afford very nice pipes and very rare/nice tobacco... but they don't look down their noses at those of us who can afford used Sasieni's off ebay and smoke recent production tobaccos.

so, that's how "I" take the rant. we're a little more laid back here. we don't get too riled up if someone thinks Escudo is the best tobacco ever, or if someone feels "Old Ironsides" is... 
we all seem to get along, have some fun with each other.

sometimes it's good to vent. i went off on "mac snobs/anti bill gates ppl" a couple months ago... hell, i work with (and he's a member here) a total Mac and BMW snob, coppertop.

anyway, this place won't ramrod you a new one if you post a review and are new to smoking pipes... if you smoke GLP Fillmore and think it's a little light on the perique, that's your tastes, nobody will say you aren't experienced enough and should therefore never post a review until you're an old crotchety geezer with no teeth and black lungs.
matter of fact, i'd encourage everyone to post more reviews. we are fairly tight here, are beginning to be able to tell if a certain member likes something that we may like it was well (based on their review/recommendation)... because we know their likes and trust their judgements.

:2

ps - i think tony has the same issue i use to have (still do). i'm blunt, i say what i need to say and get it out there. some may think i'm pissed off all the time and being a dick, but i'm not. there may be "tones" that are read into what i type. i can see the same thing in tony's posts. i see no harm, no hate, no real venom aimed at anyone. change the tone you read _into_ a post/reply to something more along the lines of two buddies discussing a football game over a few cold beers. that's the tone i'm always using (unless you see all caps and many curse words).


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## JohnnyFlake (May 31, 2006)

NCRadioMan said:


> Obviously, anybody that tastes such things are lying.
> 
> I would never ass/u/me that what people taste is not what they taste. That is snobbish, to me.


*It was a joke man, not a lie!!! Wasn't the whiff of Saffron a dead giveaway???

Johnny*


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## NCRadioMan (Feb 28, 2005)

JohnnyFlake said:


> *It was a joke man, not a lie!!! Wasn't the whiff of Saffron a dead giveaway???
> 
> Johnny*


No, because I have tasted saffron before in tobacco. :r


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## JohnnyFlake (May 31, 2006)

NCRadioMan said:


> No, because I have tasted saffron before in tobacco. :r


*I love it!!!!:tu

Johnny*


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## IHT (Dec 27, 2003)

i don't even know what saffron is. for all i know it's a pimp downtown you two know.  you say you two have tasted saffron before... 
whatever blows your skirt up. 












:r


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## kjd2121 (Jul 13, 2006)

I love how a. paul writes this - 

"These friggin people. It's about the best part of this place--humble though it may be."


Then he goes on to slam one of our own members - 

"As for the rest of it...

:fu

seriously."

Step back a. paul - Life's too short -


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## F. Prefect (Jan 14, 2007)

kjd2121 said:


> I love how a. paul writes this -
> 
> "These friggin people. It's about the best part of this place--humble though it may be."
> 
> ...


Your right, it is too short and this is really the first time I have taken issue with anything someone has posted in this forum.

I find no fault whatsoever in either of a. paul's posts.  In fact, they hit the nail squarely on the head. Although not nearly as common in this forum as in the usenet for example, there are a small percentage of posters who, when writing a review, seem to think they have to make that 10.00 tin of tobacco they purchased sound like it's God's gift to all pipe smokers, regardless of what opinion he may in reality actually hold. Afterall, he just spent 10 bucks for the stuff and he's not about to admit it smokes like old socks.

Negative reviews can be just as informative and useful as positive ones, but as a. paul points out, there are some who will try to convince you to believe that every blend they have ever reviewed is worthy of an immediate purchase. Or worse, attempt to make you believe the Bob's Chocolate Flake really doesn't taste like Ivory Soap.

F. Prefect


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## tedski (Oct 1, 2004)

F. Prefect said:


> Negative reviews can be just as informative and useful as positive ones, but as a. paul points out, there are some who will try to convince you to believe that every blend they have ever reviewed is worthy of an immediate purchase. Or worse, attempt to make you believe the Bob's Chocolate Flake really doesn't taste like Ivory Soap.
> 
> F. Prefect


IMO, a.paul is just taking it all too seriously. But I attribute that to a low fiber diet ...

And compared to other Lakeland tobaccos I've tried, Bob's Chocolate tastes like a Snickers bar.


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## F. Prefect (Jan 14, 2007)

tedski said:


> IMO, a.paul is just taking it all too seriously. But I attribute that to a low fiber diet ...
> 
> And compared to other Lakeland tobaccos I've tried, Bob's Chocolate tastes like a Snickers bar.


Just curious, but is this floral scent that is a characteristic of Lakeland blends, manufactured only in England, and is the substance used to creat the scent the same chemical substance used to produce the floral scent found in some soaps and detergents?

It's really rather interesting as some smokers will claim (and I suspect truthfully) that they cannot detect anything in Bob's Chocolate that even comes close to resembling soap, while my taste bubs and sinuses are overwhelmed with the scent of soap from the very first puff.

F. Prefect


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## IHT (Dec 27, 2003)

the "soap"?? is that the tonquin bean stuff they put in those lakeland flakes, or are you referring to the fire cured malawi leaf that's used in the majority of them?

i love the smell of 'em, but have never thought it was like a "soapy" scent... and the term "floral" has always confused me. i don't think i've ever gotten a "floral" aroma, although they are burning leaves.


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## tedski (Oct 1, 2004)

I'm not real sure what is the root cause ... but when I tried Kendal, Ennerdale and Scotch flakes, I though someone had dropped a bottle of Channel #5 into the tobacco. Those floral / perfumy / soapy flavors were very evident and lasted until I eventually just tossed the tobacco out.

With Bob's Chocolate, that flavor is quite mild and only evident for a short while.


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## Mister Moo (Sep 8, 2005)

F. Prefect said:


> Just curious, but is ... the substance used to creat the scent the same chemical substance used to produce the floral scent found in some soaps and detergents?
> 
> F. Prefect


Same kind of curious, slightly different neighborhood. The first tin (and each thereafter) of Squadron Leader I ever smoked went right to lightly scented handsoap for me. The taste is good but the initial aroma always smacks gently of a floral soap.


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## replicant_argent (May 13, 2006)

IHT said:


> ps - i think tony has the same issue i use to have (still do). i'm blunt, i say what i need to say and get it out there. some may think i'm pissed off all the time and being a dick, but i'm not. there may be "tones" that are read into what i type. i can see the same thing in tony's posts. i see no harm, no hate, no real venom aimed at anyone. change the tone you read _into_ a post/reply to something more along the lines of two buddies discussing a football game over a few cold beers. that's the tone i'm always using (unless you see all caps and many curse words).


yeah, But you are a jerk, Greg.

And you have a scary avatar.

And you smell of 7 year old madagascaran elderberries.


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## Guest (Jun 11, 2007)

Floral soap in its time and place, I find to be a very nice smoke. A lot of flavor without the crap they throw in to most aromatics (read: PG). G&H does right by my tastes.

By the way i'm a proud pipe slob ( i :dr over way to many pipes and tobaccos).


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## Mister Moo (Sep 8, 2005)

Root said:


> Floral soap in its time and place, I find to be a very nice smoke. A lot of flavor without the crap they throw in to most aromatics (read: PG). G&H does right by my tastes.
> 
> By the way i'm a proud pipe slob ( i :dr over way to many pipes and tobaccos).


SNOBS - it's about pipe SNOBS. Not pipe SLOBS, James. That would be a topic for a new thread, pipe SLOBS.


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## F. Prefect (Jan 14, 2007)

IHT said:


> the "soap"?? is that the tonquin bean stuff they put in those lakeland flakes, or are you referring to the fire cured malawi leaf that's used in the majority of them?
> 
> i love the smell of 'em, but have never thought it was like a "soapy" scent... and the term "floral" has always confused me. i don't think i've ever gotten a "floral" aroma, although they are burning leaves.


You know, I had always assumed that the soapy taste, that some smokers find very strong while others don't detect anything that tastes of soap at all, had come from some type of casing, but after looking at the tobaccos contained in Bob's Chocolate Flake, it's very likely it could be the African leaf that is producing the very distinctive taste.

Only one way to find out I guess. Stokkebye uses a lot of African leaf, I may see if anything's available containing malawi and order a couple of oz. the next time I put together a tobacco order and find out once and for all where the detergent is coming from.:tu

F. Prefect


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## F. Prefect (Jan 14, 2007)

Mister Moo said:


> SNOBS - it's about pipe SNOBS. Not pipe SLOBS, James. That would be a topic for a new thread, pipe SLOBS.


I'm a proud member of the SLOB Club as well. Dues are costly, at least from the standpoint of the NonSlobs, but like most SLOBS, I don't give a damn.

F. Prefect


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## Hoplophile (Feb 2, 2007)

tedski said:


> I'm not real sure what is the root cause ... but when I tried Kendal, Ennerdale and Scotch flakes, I though someone had dropped a bottle of Channel #5 into the tobacco. Those floral / perfumy / soapy flavors were very evident and lasted until I eventually just tossed the tobacco out.
> 
> With Bob's Chocolate, that flavor is quite mild and only evident for a short while.


Yeah, I get it too... heavily perfumed soap taste/ aroma. Blech.u
I don't taste it in FVF, which I like very much.


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## Guest (Jun 12, 2007)

Mister Moo said:


> SNOBS - it's about pipe SNOBS. Not pipe SLOBS, James. That would be a topic for a new thread, pipe SLOBS.


Oh M'oo Degrees by degrees, i was just helping the floral soapy side of this thread grow.

Slobs snobs, we all be sluts of slope.

What makes a snob a pipe snob, can't say i know. I mean really, what one man's taste of pipe and tobacco is doesn't mean a thing stacked against my bank and tounge. .. Not a thing..

AND if any gorilla tastes hints of burnt 7-year old Madagascar Vanilla it would be a pipe smoking primate because some blender put it in there to find. (Oh of course said gorilla could not openly admit such a thing had occurred being as it was that he would be asked to "smoke elsewhere" if he did.)


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## IrishCorona (Mar 7, 2007)

Root said:


> AND if any gorilla tastes hints of burnt 7-year old Madagascar Vanilla it would be a pipe smoking primate because some blender put it in there to find. (Oh of course said gorilla could not openly admit such a thing had occurred being as it was that he would be asked to "smoke elsewhere" if he did.)


Their's the inherint catch22....lol.

Interesting responses to say the least. I don't care if someone has been smoking for 50 years or 50 days. If your an asshole, your an asshole. It's that simple.

I could always tastes great & often subtle nuances in WIne, Tequilla & Cigars that some many never detect. Since I can't drink anymore I better start finding the burnt Vanilla.:tu


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## IHT (Dec 27, 2003)

IrishCorona said:


> I better start finding the burnt Vanilla.:tu


as long as there's suppose to be burnt vanilla in the flavor profile. lol...

nah, it don't matter to me. if someone wants to use big words (that i have to look up) and look down upon me because i have no clue what saffron is, and that i'm not smoking it in a group 4 sized dunhill without fills... well.... they can eat a bag of dicks. a whole bag.

good thing we don't have anyone here like that, seriously. we're all laid back.


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## F. Prefect (Jan 14, 2007)

IHT said:


> as long as there's suppose to be burnt vanilla in the flavor profile. lol...
> 
> nah, it don't matter to me. if someone wants to use big words (that i have to look up) and look down upon me because i have no clue what saffron is, and that i'm not smoking it in a group 4 sized dunhill without fills... well.... they can eat a bag of dicks. a whole bag.
> 
> good thing we don't have anyone here like that, seriously. we're all laid back.


You raise an interesting point that I have given a good deal of thought since joining Club Stogie. If I were a complete stranger and posted a question in
alt.smokers.cigars, I would be assumed by all other "regular" posters to be a troll and would be treated as such. (I suppose it's not all that surprising since at least a third of posts are written by anti-smoking individuals with more time on their hands than gray matter between their ears) But I might have to post more than a few writings before I would even get the time of day from anyone. The pipe group is not as bad, but there still exists an initiation period of sorts one must get through before being accepted and be able to converse freely with other "members".

I know a lot of this has to do with the fact that usenet groups are not moderated and all it takes is one or two idiots to completely ruin the experience of serious posters, but I still wonder why those groups tend to attract individuals who are only interested in the criticizing of others and rarely if ever post anything with content related to the purpose of the group.

Well, I'm rambling and I suppose there is no real answer to the question anyway, but I am thankful there is a forum were a newcomer can ask what most would regard as a stupid question, and at least for the time being, be treated as nothing more than a complete greenhorn and have his questions answered in a civil manner using language that a complete greenhorn could understand. After all, we were all greenhorns at one time and would have given our eye teeth for some answers to a few "stupid" questions. End of ramble.p

F. Prefect


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## IHT (Dec 27, 2003)

F. Prefect said:


> You raise an interesting point that I have given a good deal of thought since joining Club Stogie. If I were a complete stranger and posted a question in
> alt.smokers.cigars, I would be assumed by all other "regular" posters to be a troll and would be treated as such. (I suppose it's not all that surprising since at least a third of posts are written by anti-smoking individuals with more time on their hands than gray matter between their ears) But I might have to post more than a few writings before I would even get the time of day from anyone. The pipe group is not as bad, but there still exists an initiation period of sorts one must get through before being accepted and be able to converse freely with other "members".
> 
> I know a lot of this has to do with the fact that usenet groups are not moderated and all it takes is one or two idiots to completely ruin the experience of serious posters, but I still wonder why those groups tend to attract individuals who are only interested in the criticizing of others and rarely if ever post anything with content related to the purpose of the group.
> ...


you're saying the exact same thing a. paul is ranting about, only in a different manner.
also, your very post is EXACTLY what the two clubstogie founders wanted for this "cigar board" way back in '97 when it started. it's amazing that their hard work in making it that way and insuring that particular feel continued after so many years, and it has managed to be the same feel (if not even MORE true to the original feel of clubstogie) down here in our little area of the board.

if you want to know what i'm talking about, read this thread started by "rjs". rob and paul (pds) got it right when they decided to have a board with the "no snob" policy be more than a slogan, but a guide to how the board operated.


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