# 'Legal' Cuban cigars...



## havanajohn (Apr 4, 2009)

Just wondering... Up here in the Northeast, tobacco products are being sold at stores on Indian Reservations with no taxes being paid. It seems as if the Reservations are sovereign "Nations" that do not fall under the state tax codes and other laws. 
Why cant they sell Cuban cigars from these smoke shops? Or can they? Just as purchasing from off shore vendors they would be subject to confiscation as soon as they left the Reservation. But it seems to me to be quite easy to get the cigars home, as opposed to getting them shipped in from Europe.

Thoughts/comments?


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## Poneill272 (Oct 29, 2010)

:ranger:

you have my attention....good topic. sorry i have no other input.


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## rcruz1211 (Aug 4, 2008)

Poneill272 said:


> :ranger:
> 
> you have my attention....good topic. sorry i have no other input.


:tpd:


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## Poneill272 (Oct 29, 2010)

rcruz1211 said:


> :tpd:


:fish:


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## CraigJS (Dec 23, 2009)

VERY interesting idea.. I wonder if shipping the cigars to them would still be a problem?


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## havanajohn (Apr 4, 2009)

I dont see why not, as long as they claim sovereign nation status.


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## Habanolover (Feb 22, 2006)

havanajohn said:


> I dont see why not, as long as they claim sovereign nation status.


Just a guess but I would think the biggest problem is that they would still have to come through other parts of the country that are not sovereign nation status.


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## Batista30 (Sep 13, 2010)

Habanolover said:


> Just a guess but I would think the biggest problem is that they would still have to come through other parts of the country that are not sovereign nation status.


Donnie, so then if there is an Indian Reservation bordering Mexico or Canada, then this might possibly work? Here's to hope. :tea:


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## shannensmall (Jun 30, 2010)

Batista30 said:


> Donnie, so then if there is an Indian Reservation bordering Mexico or Canada, then this might possibly work? Here's to hope. :tea:


Even if there is a reservation bordering Canada or Mexico, that border is US property, thus it would be illegal for the cigars to cross it.

I don't see why they couldn't import them from "other" online sources, but they would be subject to the same risks anyone else takes when doing this. And if they imported any real quantity you can almost guarantee they would get ganked by customs.


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## Cigary (Oct 19, 2007)

Since 1960 only about 8 percent of the total number of federally recognized tribes have been individually recognized through this process. As such, if a Native American tribe is not currently federally recognized, then the tribe and individuals enrolled in the tribe are not entitled to certain privileges, such as sovereign immunity.

As Donnie said it would pretty much create a Customs deal as Federal Law prohibits bringing in Cuban Cigars into the country regardless of whether you're a sovereign nation or a Martian living in one of the Indian Reservations....ya can't get around that Federal Law. Now, if the cigar is already inside that area that is protected then we gotta another whole nuther situation as far as lighting the sucker up and smoking it. How fun would that be since I am partially Indian myself and one of the 8 original tribes in the US...Choctaw Indian..anybody wanna send me a few while I smoke it on one of the Reservations? lol


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## asmartbull (Aug 16, 2009)

Cigary said:


> Since 1960 only about 8 percent of the total number of federally recognized tribes have been individually recognized through this process. As such, if a Native American tribe is not currently federally recognized, then the tribe and individuals enrolled in the tribe are not entitled to certain privileges, such as sovereign immunity.
> 
> As Donnie said it would pretty much create a Customs deal as Federal Law prohibits bringing in Cuban Cigars into the country regardless of whether you're a sovereign nation or a Martian living in one of the Indian Reservations....ya can't get around that Federal Law. Now, if the cigar is already inside that area that is protected then we gotta another whole nuther situation as far as lighting the sucker up and smoking it. How fun would that be since I am partially Indian myself and one of the 8 original tribes in the US...Choctaw Indian..anybody wanna send me a few while I smoke it on one of the Reservations? lol


how the hell do you remember all this......

virtual RG since my RG'er is in the shop for repairs


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## thegoldenmackid (Mar 16, 2010)

While I think it might be legally possible, the Indian Nations likely wouldn't waste any political capital on this issue, as they have plenty of other concerns. 

In addition, as has been mentioned, U.S. citizens aren't legally allowed to consume, even in another country, I believe.


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## Zeb Zoober (Oct 31, 2009)

Gary is better than wikipedia!!!


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## Cigary (Oct 19, 2007)

asmartbull said:


> how the hell do you remember all this......
> 
> virtual RG since my RG'er is in the shop for repairs


I told ya Bull,,,I'm part Indian and I have the papers to prove it so my 'peeps' kept me in the loop as far as our heritage. My grandfather was still getting money from the Feds while he was alive...you may remember him by his Indian Name...MeGetsSilveradoeveryYear.


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## havanajohn (Apr 4, 2009)

Cigary said:


> Since 1960 only about 8 percent of the total number of federally recognized tribes have been individually recognized through this process. As such, if a Native American tribe is not currently federally recognized, then the tribe and individuals enrolled in the tribe are not entitled to certain privileges, such as sovereign immunity.
> 
> As Donnie said it would pretty much create a Customs deal as Federal Law prohibits bringing in Cuban Cigars into the country regardless of whether you're a sovereign nation or a Martian living in one of the Indian Reservations....ya can't get around that Federal Law. Now, if the cigar is already inside that area that is protected then we gotta another whole nuther situation as far as lighting the sucker up and smoking it. How fun would that be since I am partially Indian myself and one of the 8 original tribes in the US...Choctaw Indian..anybody wanna send me a few while I smoke it on one of the Reservations? lol


I know it doesn't change the law as far as U.S. citizens are concerned. If people willingly break the law as they now do by possessing CC's, they will still do it. I was just asking if it would be lots easier from a logistical standpoint for the Indian nations to sell them, and to obtain them.
And, if the Cuban cigar market is as large as we have seen ( CC seizures before Christmas), then, there may be a tidy profit made.


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## Cigary (Oct 19, 2007)

havanajohn said:


> I know it doesn't change the law as far as U.S. citizens are concerned. If people willingly break the law as they now do by possessing CC's, they will still do it. I was just asking if it would be lots easier from a logistical standpoint for the Indian nations to sell them, and to obtain them.
> And, if the Cuban cigar market is as large as we have seen ( CC seizures before Christmas), then, there may be a tidy profit made.


Next time I'm on the Reservation I will get with the brothers and ask...nice segue to start with the peace pipe and onto CC's and their legality.


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## asmartbull (Aug 16, 2009)

So Gary....

Just so we are on the same page....

Feather....No Dot,,,,correctarty:


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## Cigary (Oct 19, 2007)

asmartbull said:


> So Gary....
> 
> Just so we are on the same page....
> 
> Feather....No Dot,,,,correctarty:


ound:ound:

I need some fire water and a cigar.


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## eyesack (Jul 19, 2009)

Man, this reminds me of the "Hey, I bet we could make a bong out of that (insert non-bong object here)..." discussions we had in high school lol IDK why, but it does. Probably because we're in a think tank trying to come up with ways of getting away with illegal fun? lol!
Creative thinking, guys!
You know, I'm sure there are some brothers in the deserty states that would be willing to pick up packages falling from the sky out of a plane from Canada (or Mexico) filled with CC's...


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## Zfog (Oct 16, 2010)

eyesack said:


> Man, this reminds me of the "Hey, I bet we could make a bong out of that (insert non-bong object here)..." discussions we had in high school lol IDK why, but it does. Probably because we're in a think tank trying to come up with ways of getting away with illegal fun? lol!
> Creative thinking, guys!
> You know, I'm sure there are some brothers in the deserty states that would be willing to pick up packages falling from the sky out of a plane from Canada (or Mexico) filled with CC's...


I would be willing to fly to those deserty states to be the one to catch those magical packages. ound:

JK to anyone concerned about the actuallity of this statement


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## Johnny Rock (Jun 25, 2010)

I'm just thinking that if it were possible to be done, it would have been done or at least tried already. Don't you think?....:noidea:

There are quite a few reservations that border the US and Canada/Mexico. With the ease at which illegals get in to the US, I would think that they could get in on the reservations just as easy. Especially if there is a private trade agreement between the Nation and the "Immigrants".

This may just be a perfect set-up, so shhhhhh!!:nono::nono: LOL:rofl:


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## HydroRaven (Oct 10, 2010)

I think it would be even easier if someone set up shop on embassy grounds. Prime city location and that would make it perfectly legal to sell and send the cigars.


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## GentlemanJester (Feb 28, 2010)

The Native Americans probably could sell them to anyone they wanted... And then the FBI could arrest anyone that bought them, or any federal agent the second you left the reservation. 

I honestly think if there was a realistic way that Native Americans could make this into a profitable venture, they probably would have tried it already. I also don't think reservations are totally independent of our country's laws. Otherwise they'd be selling drugs and other stuff with impunity.


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## HWiebe (Jul 13, 2010)

It's funny. Canadians talk about buying CC locally, legally and the post gets yanked. But talking about how to skirt US laws to traffic CCs in the USA doesn't kill this thread. Interesting.


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## JGD (Mar 2, 2009)

HWiebe said:


> It's funny. Canadians talk about buying CC locally, legally and the post gets yanked. But talking about how to skirt US laws to traffic CCs in the USA doesn't kill this thread. Interesting.


I think the difference is that in threads that talk about where Canadians can guy Cuban cigars, people can read them and then go to that website and buy the cigars. Here, people are talking about a theoretical way to get around the embargo. No one is saying, "hey, if you go to the Navajo website you can buy cohibas!"


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## Zfog (Oct 16, 2010)

JGD said:


> I think the difference is that in threads that talk about where Canadians can guy Cuban cigars, people can read them and then go to that website and buy the cigars. Here, people are talking about a theoretical way to get around the embargo. No one is saying, "hey, if you go to the Navajo website you can buy cohibas!"


+1 Theoretical


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## Habanolover (Feb 22, 2006)

HWiebe said:


> It's funny. Canadians talk about buying CC locally, legally and the post gets yanked. But talking about how to skirt US laws to traffic CCs in the USA doesn't kill this thread. Interesting.





JGD said:


> I think the difference is that in threads that talk about where Canadians can guy Cuban cigars, people can read them and then go to that website and buy the cigars. Here, people are talking about a theoretical way to get around the embargo. No one is saying, "hey, if you go to the Navajo website you can buy cohibas!"


Besides that, if this were somehow legal (loophole) for the Native-Americans to do then it wouldn't be against the law which means that nobody is talking about skirting the law. Posts get shut down here when they do start talking about how to skirt the law.

PUFF has nothing against Canadians. I even have a Canadian friend.


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## JGD (Mar 2, 2009)

Habanolover said:


> PUFF has nothing against Canadians. I even have a Canadian friend.


Wait... Canadians are _real_?!?!


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## Habanolover (Feb 22, 2006)

JGD said:


> Wait... Canadians are _real_?!?!


What kind of question is that? Haven't you ever watched hockey? :mrgreen:

Seriously though, I live in what may be the "snowbird" capital of the world and I have never met a Canadian that was anything but nice, pleasant, and very gracious.


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## HydroRaven (Oct 10, 2010)

JGD said:


> Wait... Canadians are _real_?!?!


Yeah. I think they live somewhere closer than the Iraq though.


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## Zfog (Oct 16, 2010)

Now back to topic eh!
Seriously though Canadians are our brothers to the North!


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## JGD (Mar 2, 2009)

Habanolover said:


> Seriously though, I live in what may be the "snowbird" capital of the world and I have never met a Canadian that was anything but nice, pleasant, and very gracious.


Haha agreed. Plus, they have BEAVERTAILS! If you don't know what that is, just google image search "beavertail ottawa." MMmmmmmmmmm.... delicious!


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## d_day (Aug 24, 2008)

Short answer: no, they may not.

Long answer: while called "sovereign nations," they are not truly sovereign. Think of the reservations as being more like a US territory rather than an independent nation. 


> The Constitution and later federal laws grant to tribal nations more sovereignty than is granted to states or other local jurisdictions, yet do not grant full sovereignty equivalent to foreign nations, hence the term "domestic dependent nations". Not all indigenous nations agree with the United States' view of them.


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## Johnny Rock (Jun 25, 2010)

Habanolover said:


> What kind of question is that? Haven't you ever watched hockey? :mrgreen:
> 
> Seriously though, I live in what may be the "snowbird" capital of the world and I have never met a Canadian that was anything but nice, pleasant, and very gracious.


Yup, and they are big tippers too.


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## havanajohn (Apr 4, 2009)

d_day said:


> Short answer: no, they may not.
> 
> Long answer: while called "sovereign nations," they are not truly sovereign. Think of the reservations as being more like a US territory rather than an independent nation.


I don't know... If Tribes can openly ignore state and federal tax laws, why cant they just do what they want in spite of the aforementioned quote from d_day? The state of NY seems powerless to even attempt to collect the cigarette tax. The last time they tried to do it was at the point of a gun, and two (I think) NY State Troopers were killed.


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## dyieldin (Sep 27, 2009)

I am in AZ, there are a lot of border crossers bringing 'stuff' into the US, why not CCs. Give a guy a few hundred to bring a sack of boxes over, would be about the same to him, better. Better because if he does get caught there would be no jail time like he would face for dope. Hummm........ maybe I could make a career move. Wait, that would be maybe I could have a career..................


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## eyesack (Jul 19, 2009)

So, just to clear the air; we're not skirting the law in this thread because all of this is theoretical based on the fact that none of us would actually possess or consume an embargoed product should this theoretical not-law-skirting event actually take place... :wink:


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## GentlemanJester (Feb 28, 2010)

havanajohn said:


> I don't know... If Tribes can openly ignore state and federal tax laws, why cant they just do what they want in spite of the aforementioned quote from d_day? The state of NY seems powerless to even attempt to collect the cigarette tax. The last time they tried to do it was at the point of a gun, and two (I think) NY State Troopers were killed.


Well for one I beleive in most cases only the FBI have any legal power on most reservations. BUT, the reservations are granted certain "rights" or benefits by the Federal Government. Tax breaks are one of them.


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## Mante (Dec 25, 2009)

eyesack said:


> So, just to clear the air; we're not skirting the law in this thread because all of this is theoretical based on the fact that none of us would actually possess or consume an embargoed product should this theoretical not-law-skirting event actually take place... :wink:


I'm of the assumption, based on nothing but MHO and hearsay, that you are theoretically correct, maybe.:lever:


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## Animal (Sep 27, 2010)

Wait a minute.. you mean you guys aren't serious?:hmm:


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## TonyBrooklyn (Jan 28, 2010)

Cigary said:


> Since 1960 only about 8 percent of the total number of federally recognized tribes have been individually recognized through this process. As such, if a Native American tribe is not currently federally recognized, then the tribe and individuals enrolled in the tribe are not entitled to certain privileges, such as sovereign immunity.
> 
> As Donnie said it would pretty much create a Customs deal as Federal Law prohibits bringing in Cuban Cigars into the country regardless of whether you're a sovereign nation or a Martian living in one of the Indian Reservations....ya can't get around that Federal Law. Now, if the cigar is already inside that area that is protected then we gotta another whole nuther situation as far as lighting the sucker up and smoking it. How fun would that be since I am partially Indian myself and one of the 8 original tribes in the US...Choctaw Indian..anybody wanna send me a few while I smoke it on one of the Reservations? lol


:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:


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## bouncintiga (Feb 3, 2010)

well, lets say theoretically they could in fact "import" cuban cigars and sell them within their territory. do you think they would? 

I think US customs would set up a boarder around their territory to make sure US citizens visiting don't bring back cuban cigars and it would create such a hassle and negative reputation that it would kill any other attractions that might have existed before. my thinking is just because they "can" do it doesn't mean it would be in their best interest.


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## Poneill272 (Oct 29, 2010)

i would bet they are already in the stores on reservations, but not "put out there". probably have to know the owner pretty well to get them, "under the table"

that is my opinion.


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