# My Test: Cello vs. Non-Cello



## MoreBeer (Feb 13, 2010)

About 10 weeks ago I decided to see if there's a difference between keeping my sticks wrapped or not. I took 2 identical 150 count humis and put 50 cigars in each, an identical selection. The humi's both maintained 63% - 66% RH using large bead tubes.

For the past week I've smoked 9 pairs of cigars, 1 from each humi. The result? The non-cello wrapped cigars win. By a mile! They had more taste, were more consistent throughout, burned better and were just overall a more pleasing smoke.

The boxes I keep in the cooloerdor for storage I leave wrapped although going forward will maintain a 4 month supply of unwrapped sticks and replace as needed. In fact, I spent the morning unwrapping around 100 smokes. Just thought I'd pass it on.

Today's unwrapping in the garage:


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## 8ball (Feb 17, 2006)

Cool test. That was a great idea.


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## Cigary (Oct 19, 2007)

Lol,,,a better test would be a blind taste test because our subconscious likes to play tricks on us. Anytime we have a "pre disposed" thought process going on it limits objectivity. What you might want to do is do your test again,,,pick out 5 indentical cigars from each humidor and then have someone there assign them numbers that will only be identifiable by them. You smoke them and then decide which cigars are better and the let the person who holds the identity tell you which ones are which. This will let your taste decide and give you a more accurate analysis of your experiment. It's not fair if you already know the outcome.


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## MoreBeer (Feb 13, 2010)

Cigary said:


> Lol,,,a better test would be a blind taste test because our subconscious likes to play tricks on us. Anytime we have a "pre disposed" thought process going on it limits objectivity. What you might want to do is do your test again,,,pick out 5 indentical cigars from each humidor and then have someone there assign them numbers that will only be identifiable by them. You smoke them and then decide which cigars are better and the let the person who holds the identity tell you which ones are which. This will let your taste decide and give you a more accurate analysis of your experiment. It's not fair if you already know the outcome.


The difference is night and day. No need for the blindfold. Try it.


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## bigslowrock (May 9, 2010)

What were the age and brand of the 9 pairs of sticks?


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## mrsmitty (Jan 22, 2009)

My stogies have been un-celloed now for a year and I personally thinks there's a difference. But everyone has there own opinions.


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## MoreBeer (Feb 13, 2010)

bigslowrock said:


> What were the age and brand of the 9 pairs of sticks?


I'm not sure of the exact age of everything although that really doesn't matter. The results were the non-cello wins.

Regarding brands:

Perdomo
Man Of War
Padilla
Nub
Oliva
La Gloria
Alex Bradley
5 Vegas
Gran Habano

I got this idea from the GAR Robusto Grande's I like. They're unwrapped from the factory and are always good.


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## iMarc (Feb 24, 2010)

Interesting test.

I've been leaving my cellos on as I keep my loose cigars in trays.

I'm considering unwrapping some to see what happens.

Of course, there are so many other factors at play that I think I'd have a difficult time doing a true blind test like Gary suggests based on my lack of experience to date in really identifying flavors and tastes.


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## iMarc (Feb 24, 2010)

OK... my minitest is set.

As a side note... smelling the foot of each cigar as I unwrap it is bliss.


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## Herf N Turf (Dec 31, 2008)

Steve, your effort is admirable, but I don't think what you're tasting is all in the baccy. I suspect it's more in the stabilization.

Bear with me.

Modern "cellophane" as synthesized by du Pont in the early part of the last century, is no where near as porous as it's plant emulsion predecessor. My point is, it holds in a lot of moisture. Your test was only 10wks. This isn't nearly enough time for anything in the baccy to change to any salient degree, but it is plenty of time for the naked cigars to stabilize to the moisture content you prefer.

There is no single change that can occur to a cigar that will produce more flavorsome effects in as short a period of time than for them to become stabilized at your preferred rH.

I submit that this is, in fact, what you're tasting.

Keep up the research. I am on your side, in that I do believe that for short-term aging (2-7yrs), naked cigars do better, because they respond more quickly.


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## Fibo (Sep 15, 2006)

MoreBeer said:


> About 10 weeks ago I decided to see if there's a difference between keeping my sticks wrapped or not. I took 2 identical 150 count humis and put 50 cigars in each, an identical selection. The humi's both maintained 63% - 66% RH using large bead tubes.
> 
> For the past week I've smoked 9 pairs of cigars, 1 from each humi. The result? The non-cello wrapped cigars win. By a mile! They had more taste, were more consistent throughout, burned better and were just overall a more pleasing smoke.
> 
> ...


I always take the cello off mine. It seems they age better without the cello. I read in a thread some time ago that was the case. But I never did a test. Glad you confirmed my intuition.


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## danmcmartin (Jul 25, 2009)

I always wondered how long it takes the humidity to penetrate the cello wrapper. I know they are not air tight as the end is just folded, but I would guess it takes a lot of time for the cigar to equalize. For instance, if you bought a stick and it was kept in less than ideal conditions and you took it home to rest, would it be in good shape in a day? A week? Month? I mean how long would it take to absorb the moisture throough the folded end of the cello tube?


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## Matt1951 (Apr 25, 2010)

If a cigar is still giving off ammonia, that ammonia is to some extent trapped by the cellophane. I bought two boxes of cigars over two years old, heavily wrapped in cellophane, tremendous ammonia trapped in the boxes. So, logically removing the cellophane should give better results, as confirmed by this experiment.


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## thegoldenmackid (Mar 16, 2010)

As Don's little protege. My first thoughts were the same thing: that your minds playing tricks. 

I'd be interesting to see if you let a friend keep them and give them to you without telling you.

I keep mine as they come, figure the people making them know better. In addition, transporting sticks... cello makes a world of difference.


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## CraigJS (Dec 23, 2009)

If I keep the cello on I cut it off on both ends. That way the stick is still protected but breathes better. I prefer them naked though....


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## ongreystreet (Nov 3, 2008)

Herf took the words right off my page, 10 weeks is a rather short period of time to test this theory out.

It really only proves that your cigars are better 10 weeks after removing the cello. 

I can dry box a cigar for a day to improve the burn, doesn't mean I'd want to do the same thing for week.


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## Cigary (Oct 19, 2007)

thegoldenmackid said:


> As Don's little protege. My first thoughts were the same thing: that your minds playing tricks.
> 
> I'd be interesting to see if you let a friend keep them and give them to you without telling you.
> 
> I keep mine as they come, figure the people making them know better. In addition, transporting sticks... cello makes a world of difference.


I agree that there is merit in the uncellophaned cigar but by the same token a prejudiced mind can and will alter any test. Case in point...I have done this experiment many times with friends over the years and knowing their preference for cigars I would bring in unbanded cigars for them to try knowing what cigars ( robusto sized ) were which. ( blind test ) The test was basically the same where I had them guess which cigar was the cello and non cello. Ouf of 5 testers 2 were right and 3 were wrong. I even tested non banded cigars that I said were a certain brand that they all knew and smoked regularly. The cigar was AF 858...I only planted 2 of these in the group and knew which ones were the real deal while the other cigar were lookalikes. Out of the 5 smokers only 1 person got it right and the other 4 guessed wrong. Suffice to say the 4 who guessed wrong were a bit on the ornery side because they didnt like the fact that they could be fooled by their own tastes. I admit to being fooled enough times myself when I have been tested by others.."here try this cigar and tell me what you think of it." It's not a very good feeling to know that sometimes our mind and tastes will fool even though most hardy of cigar smokers.


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## CraigJS (Dec 23, 2009)

Hell Gary we can save money that way.. Mix in the cheap ones with the pricy ones and 4 out of 5 times we won't know the difference. :doh:


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## dartstothesea (Aug 15, 2008)

mrsmitty said:


> My stogies have been un-celloed now for a year and I personally thinks there's a difference. But everyone has there own opinions.


Agreed. And they look better just sitting in your humidor too.


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## Johnny Rock (Jun 25, 2010)

I thought the modern cellos were permeable, and didn't do much besides protect your stogies from damage.

I do know that when I rotate my cigars in the humi I have to be very careful not to damage the wrappers on the naked ones.


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## Cigary (Oct 19, 2007)

CraigJS said:


> Hell Gary we can save money that way.. Mix in the cheap ones with the pricy ones and 4 out of 5 times we won't know the difference. :doh:


Lol...you are probably ahead of the curve with that logic. I have been embarrassed a few times myself but I do enjoy purchasing my favorites and smoking them. I'm not saying that all of us can be fooled because there are those who have a very professional palate,,,just like those who are wine connoisseurs. It would probably be easier to fool me now esp. since I smoke so many different brands. For those who stick to a regular rotation they know their stock better.


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## MoreBeer (Feb 13, 2010)

Herf N Turf said:


> *Keep up the research. I am on your side, in that I do believe that for short-term aging (2-7yrs), naked cigars do better, because they respond more quickly*.


2-7 Years is "short-term aging"? That sounds a little out there.


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## Rookee (Aug 5, 2009)

Hey Steve i agree with you 100%.. There is a night and day difference between a cigar with no cello and a cigar with cello on. No cello (at least for me) equals, better taste, better draw, and nothing smells better than opening a humi full of naked cigars.


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## ongreystreet (Nov 3, 2008)

I could see someone considering 2-7 years short aging. Under one year is just sitting, 1-2 resting, 2+ years aging.

I don't totally understand the smell thing, if I wanted to smell my tobacco I'd just snuff.


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## Rookee (Aug 5, 2009)

ongreystreet said:


> I don't totally understand the smell thing, if I wanted to smell my tobacco I'd just snuff.


It's a much better experience when you use all your senses to enjoy the smoke.


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## ongreystreet (Nov 3, 2008)

Rookee said:


> It's a much better experience when you use all your senses to enjoy the smoke.


Then you can see it, feel it, smell it, smoke it, and shove it in your ear.

I'll retro inhale or whatever you call it, but I'm not sold on the "my humidor looks and smells great" as a good reason to unwrap a smoke before I put it away.


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## Rookee (Aug 5, 2009)

Like they say, to each their own. I go as far as cutting the ones i think i will smoke withing the next few days.

I don't know about shoving it in my ear, but when it's nice and quiet, i like to hear the sizzle when i take a puff.


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## bpegler (Mar 30, 2006)

D


MoreBeer said:


> 2-7 Years is "short-term aging"? That sounds a little out there.


Not really. Probably most CCs need at least that much time before they come into their own. NCs probably don't require so much.

BTW I was recently gifted a cigar from 1930. Still in it's cellophane. Looks good. Now if we can find an unwrapped one maybe we can really have the final word on the matter.


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## smelvis (Sep 7, 2009)

I have some cigars around 15 years old, a lot around 6/7 and tons between 1 and 6 unfortunately most nons are Cello and tubed so I can't compare as I don't have much aged cc's. I do however don't believe a word of it, not meaning what you say isn't true I simply don't believe there is a difference.

I am in the minority as I am one who would like to see cc's cello ed  sorry I ship a lot and the cello to me is a good thing!

Okay carry on with your experiments!


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## ca21455 (Jul 23, 2006)

From what I have read, most NC manufacturers do not reccomend aging cigars, they feel they have already aged them to a point of optimum taste.

I do not agree, there are definately some cigars that better suit my taste after resting for a few years. 

However, the Padron 1926 maddies are a good example of fresh is best. They have a good strong flavor when they are young that fades with age.

That being said, I prefer to leave the celo on the 1926's it tends to make the flavors in the cigar more intense when smoking.


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## MoreBeer (Feb 13, 2010)

Many Thinks:

I don't think cello is a porous as most people think and restricts the cigar from achieving its optimum flavor. I also think it prohibits to a certain extent the cigars ability to breathe which I think is very important.

I think that most people merely "think" aging cigars for an immense amount of time helps more than it actually does. I also think "excessive" aging hurts most cigars. At leact NC's. And finally I think 10 weeks is a sufficient time frame to decide if there's a difference or not from my test.

In conclusion, I think it was a great idea as I now enjoy my smokes more. At least I think I do. :???:


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## Elwin (Mar 7, 2010)

This is a fun discussion.

It reminds me of the discussions I've read about in Min Ron Nee's Illustrated Encyclopedia of Post-Revolution Havana Cigars, and his aging "sickness" period of cigars. Sure he was talking about Cubans, but his ideas about aging in general, what accelerates or retards the aging process, and when a cigar reaches it peak are still fascinating ideas.
Not that can actually afford to try any of his ideas, let alone his perfect 25-30 year old "transcendent" cigars, but it doesn't mean I can't dream...



In the mean time, I smoke what I can afford, age even my cheapest bundles for at least 3-6 months, and on a smaller basis, try from time to time resting the ones that I plan to smoke within a month without cellos. Those do tend to smoke and taste better than the ones in cello, though I think Don hit it square on the head with that point - stabilization makes a better cigar.

Oh well. Now if I just had more room, more money for the "good ones", and a guarantee that I'll be alive long enough to enjoy them...


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## Herf N Turf (Dec 31, 2008)

MoreBeer said:


> Many Thinks:
> 
> I don't think cello is a porous as most people think and restricts the cigar from achieving its optimum flavor. I also think it prohibits to a certain extent the cigars ability to breathe which I think is very important.


It's not. Like I said, as originally created, it was, but du Pont changed it and now it's not. It does inhibit "breathing", but that's not all bad. See below.



MoreBeer said:


> I think that most people merely "think" aging cigars for an immense amount of time helps more than it actually does. I also think "excessive" aging hurts most cigars.


I "think" you mean >2yrs to be "excessive". It's not. Storing a cigar for less than that is not "aging", but rather "resting". I don't care whether you're talking about Cuban cigars or Martian cigars, all that occurs in the first two years is that a) the moisture content stabilizes and b) the final fermentation has come to fruition. Only after that, can a cigar settle into maturation and begin to "age". In the case of CC, many will go through a rather "sick" phase and won't really be ready for 5yrs.

I don't know if I agree with your assertion that "most" NC are "hurt" by age. They may not "benefit" and I think that's where the word "most" can be applied. However, there are many, which do benefit greatly from age and some (Opus X come to mind), that _require _it.

Removing the cellophane will accelerate all processes, by allowing more gas and moisture exchange. However, this rapidity comes at a price. In the case of CC, sticks left in the cello for decades have had the aging process slowed by the cello. This (according to Dr M.R. Nee) creates a "mini-wine-in-the-bottle" effect and delivers a far more delicate and complex smoke.

The same would be true in the case of NC, but since we are dealing with, by and large, more mature tobaccos, the time line would be significantly shortened. Do not mistake this for meaning that the first two year's effects are abbreviated. They are not.


MoreBeer said:


> And finally I think 10 weeks is a sufficient time frame to decide if there's a difference or not from my test.


I do too, although I hold to my original assertion that what you're tasting CAN ONLY be stabilization.



MoreBeer said:


> In conclusion, I think it was a great idea as I now enjoy my smokes more. At least I think I do. :???:


Again, I agree. It's a worthy task. The added benefit is just what you said. 
I hope you will extend your testing farther into the future. I think you will see/taste even more dramatic differences.


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## veteranvmb (Aug 6, 2009)

All my soldiers that I am ageing are naked in my large cabinet humidors. I have about 6 stand alone humidors(anywhere from 20 to 200 count) where all my soldiers have their uniforms on because I love to look at them and feel them and move them around each day.
I find they stay more pristine from my paws grubbing on them and admireing them. in those humidors. LOL

Jerry


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## MoreBeer (Feb 13, 2010)

Don, your opinion is always appreciated. I've learned much from your experience.

I'm an experimental type of guy and am always looking for ways to improve my smokes. I don't care if I wreck a load of cigars in the process, since in the long run its worth it and also fun. I'm certain this won't be my last opinion or experiment although to date, this has improved the flavor of my sticks immensely. 

The five Padilla Dominus I kept unwrapped for the 10 weeks are now incredible. So I quickly unwrapped my new full box this weekend. :biggrin1:


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## Dog Rockets (Oct 1, 2008)

veteranvmb said:


> All my soldiers that I am ageing are naked in my large cabinet humidors. I have about 6 stand alone humidors(anywhere from 20 to 200 count) where all my soldiers have their uniforms on because I love to look at them and feel them and move them around each day.
> I find they stay more pristine from my paws grubbing on them and admireing them. in those humidors. LOL
> 
> Jerry


Don't ask, don't tell, Jerry...


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## veteranvmb (Aug 6, 2009)

Dog Rockets said:


> Don't ask, don't tell, Jerry...


 Thats correct. ROTFL. "Not that theres anything wrong with that" Seinfeld show

Jerry


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## mikesimjr (Jun 20, 2010)

I look at it this way, the tobbaco leaves grow for months with NO CELLO, the leaves then ferment for months with NO CELLO and then they are rolled and are aged for months/years with NO CELLO, so when they are put in to my humi they go in with NO CELLO. Just imho...


Mike


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## Do5ug (Mar 29, 2010)

OK, here's a question. Does anyone know of a source where we could buy cigar cello (in bulk) so that we could have our stogies at rest naked in the privacy of their own world, and then put the clothing back on when we take them out into the public.

All to give some higher degree of protection either when shipping or transporting to herfs.

I would strip all of mine if I could find a source for these. Saving and using the original cello wrapper is just too much to do. Know what I mean?:clock:


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## mikesimjr (Jun 20, 2010)

Do5ug said:


> OK, here's a question. Does anyone know of a source where we could buy cigar cello (in bulk) so that we could have our stogies at rest naked in the privacy of their own world, and then put the clothing back on when we take them out into the public.
> 
> All to give some higher degree of protection either when shipping or transporting to herfs.
> 
> I would strip all of mine if I could find a source for these. Saving and using the original cello wrapper is just too much to do. Know what I mean?:clock:


I always hold on a to few cellos from each box as I put them in the humi, that way I have some when I go out, no need to buy in bulk save the ones ya got. If you ever buy a box of big ring cigars save all the cellos then you will be sure you ahve a big enough cello for any cigar.


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## seegarfan (Oct 27, 2007)

From ca21455: From what I have read, most NC manufacturers do not reccomend aging cigars, they feel they have already aged them to a point of optimum taste.

I do not agree, there are definately some cigars that better suit my taste after resting for a few years.

However, the Padron 1926 maddies are a good example of fresh is best. They have a good strong flavor when they are young that fades with age.

That being said, I prefer to leave the celo on the 1926's it tends to make the flavors in the cigar more intense when smoking.







I think naked is best- on cigars too.

Where did you get some 1926s with cello? I have never seen cello on all the boxes and singles I have purchased over the years. Did you add your own cello?

Mark


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## smelvis (Sep 7, 2009)

seegarfan said:


> I think naked is best- on cigars too.
> 
> Where did you get some 1926s with cello? I have never seen cello on all the boxes and singles I have purchased over the years. Did you add your own cello?


I have a 1955 and a 1945 Thanks to Ron both with cello  I smoked a 1955 he gave me a couple months ago after taking the cello of that one to, The we all smoke some very very old cello ed cigars at the Shuckins Herf again Thanks to Ron!


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## seegarfan (Oct 27, 2007)

I have a 1955 and a 1945

HUH?


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## Secondz (Jul 7, 2010)

MoreBeer said:


> I'm not sure of the exact age of everything although that really doesn't matter. The results were the non-cello wins.


Not to be the jerk here....but how does the age not matter? IF and this is an IF...the cigars that were left out of the cello had more age on them or if the ones you left in the cello's were inside of the 9 month sick period.....exactly how does that NOT make a difference?


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## Rev2010 (Sep 3, 2008)

I've never done an A/B comparison but I keep all my sticks naked in my humi as it always just seemed more logical. If they are sitting there and I'm not digging through them (don't need to as I keep my humi well organized) then why keep on a barrier that prevents them from breathing and acclimating? I keep cello on hand for those times when I take a stick with me when going out somewhere I can have a cigar or if I need to ship some out. Outside of those two situations I've never seen a need to keep the cello on. I'm not surprised by his *personal* finding on this. It's intriguing though how adamantly against the possibility of an improvement some people are. 


Rev.


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## smelvis (Sep 7, 2009)

seegarfan said:


> I have a 1955 and a 1945
> 
> HUH?


Yep


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## MoreBeer (Feb 13, 2010)

Secondz said:


> Not to be the jerk here....but how does the age not matter? IF and this is an IF...the cigars that were left out of the cello had more age on them or if the ones you left in the cello's were inside of the 9 month sick period.....exactly how does that NOT make a difference?


LOL! 10 brands of cigars were used, a total of 100. 5 of each within both humidors taken from the SAME boxes. *Why on earth would I have selected identical cigars to compare from different time frames?* For example using 10 Perdomo Habano's, 5 that I've had for a year within the non-cello humidor and another 5 right off the truck within the cello wrapped humi. Only an idiot would do that! :der:


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## 1029henry (Jan 18, 2010)

Rev2010 said:


> I've never done an A/B comparison but I keep all my sticks naked in my humi as it always just seemed more logical. If they are sitting there and I'm not digging through them (don't need to as I keep my humi well organized) then why keep on a barrier that prevents them from breathing and acclimating? I keep cello on hand for those times when I take a stick with me when going out somewhere I can have a cigar or if I need to ship some out. Outside of those two situations I've never seen a need to keep the cello on. I'm not surprised by his *personal* finding on this. It's intriguing though how adamantly against the possibility of an improvement some people are.
> 
> Rev.


I have to agree wholeheartedly with this.:amen:


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## smelvis (Sep 7, 2009)

This is one reason I say leave the cello on, I am so tired of throwing away very good cigars meant for the troops.


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## Rev2010 (Sep 3, 2008)

smelvis said:


> This is one reason I say leave the cello on, I am so tired of throwing away very good cigars meant for the troops.


Well what did you do to cause that? I've never ever messed up a cigar like that, not even once, and I take all the cello off mine. If that's something that happened during shipping then it's a moot point because the discussion is about how we store them in our humidors. Of course all cigars being shipped should either be in cello or a well bundled ziplock.

Rev.


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## smelvis (Sep 7, 2009)

Rev2010 said:


> Well what did you do to cause that? I've never ever messed up a cigar like that, not even once, and I take all the cello off mine. If that's something that happened during shipping then it's a moot point because the discussion is about how we store them in our humidors. Of course all cigars being shipped should either be in cello or a well bundled ziplock.
> 
> Rev.


Excuse me, They come to me mailed that way, loose and un cello ed is all it takes. Not a moot point at all it shows what can happen without cello.

I also contend I could not store my collection without cello without hurting them, That's my opinion and I'm sticking to it.


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## Rev2010 (Sep 3, 2008)

smelvis said:


> Excuse me, They come to me mailed that way, loose and un cello ed is all it takes. Not a moot point at all it shows what can happen without cello.


You're excused but you're still out of context here. The discussion is about removing cello for storage in one's *stationary* humidor. Of course you would want your cigars cello'd for shipping to avoid damage because shipping is rough and will more easily damage an unprotected cigar.

By the way, since you mentioned it earlier... what's a Padron 1955? Never heard of those, pretty sure a '55 doesn't exist.

Rev.


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## smelvis (Sep 7, 2009)

Rev2010 said:


> You're excused but you're still out of context here. The discussion is about removing cello for storage in one's *stationary* humidor. Of course you would want your cigars cello'd for shipping to avoid damage because shipping is rough and will more easily damage an unprotected cigar.
> 
> By the way, since you mentioned it earlier... what's a Padron 1955? Never heard of those, pretty sure a '55 doesn't exist.
> 
> Rev.


Pretty sure I didn't say Padron either, As far as context goes then it's a taste test and not s storage test. I don't think I want to talk to you anymore. Goodbye!


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## Rev2010 (Sep 3, 2008)

smelvis said:


> I don't think I want to talk to you anymore. Goodbye!


You need some thicker skin bud. I was simply making a point. No hard feelings man :beerchug:

Rev.


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## smelvis (Sep 7, 2009)

Rev2010 said:


> You need some thicker skin bud. I was simply making a point. No hard feelings man :beerchug:
> 
> Rev.


No brother you need to be a bit politer, You never know whats going on in people lives right now my kinda sucks, so I simply choose to not argue, You have your point and neither is gonna change so I will hang with my friends Thank You!

As far as hard feelings I don't hold grudges so Have a great day!

Dave


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## Rev2010 (Sep 3, 2008)

smelvis said:


> No brother you need to be a bit polite


Hmm, I've looked over my posting here and don't see anything that sticks out as coming off all that rude. I'm sorry to hear things are tough for you right now, and yeah... no grudges bro. :thumb:

Rev.


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## Coop D (Oct 19, 2008)

So what about Tubos???

I like the tubos better then the cello


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## Stinkdyr (Jun 19, 2009)

ongreystreet said:


> Then you can see it, feel it, smell it, smoke it, and shove it in your ear........


"Well I am just a modern guy,
Of course I've had it in the ear before!

'Cause of a lust for life"

Iggy feels you. :yo:


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## KetherInMalkuth (Dec 17, 2009)

smelvis said:


> This is one reason I say leave the cello on, I am so tired of throwing away very good cigars meant for the troops.


Is that purely physical damage or is it from rapid humidity fluxuation?


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## Rev2010 (Sep 3, 2008)

Coop D said:


> So what about Tubos???


Actually I think tubos are probably the worst. The largest amount of mold reports seem to come from people opening up a tubos. At least that's what I've seen on here over the years.

Rev.


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## Johnny Rock (Jun 25, 2010)

Here's a little reading material I found on the subject:

BTW, I love the last two sentences in the article...

*The Science of Cigars: The "how" and "why" behind cellophane cigar wrappers
Sunday, October 26 2008 *

By Didier Houvenaghel

EDITORS NOTE: Allow me to introduce a new contributor to CigarAdvisor.com. Didier Houvenaghel. That's pronounced "hoov-en-A-gull," but for simplicity-sake, we'll just refer to him as "Didier." Didier is a Belgian agricultural engineer who spent many years in Cuba studying tropical crops, specializing in black tobacco. His extensive research and knowledge of the tobacco growing and curing process led him to create Nicarao, his own brand of Nicaraguan puro cigars made today with Rocky Patel. Didier is also the author of the book, The Cigar: From Soil to Soul. 
When Didier asked me to suggest a topic for his first column, I recommended covering something I'm asked about most often, which is whether or not to keep the cellophane wrappers on cigars in your humidor. What follows is more than just a simple answer. With his scientific eye for facts, Didier delves into the "how" and "why" behind using cellophane to protect cigars.
- G.K.

Let's begin by answering the question, "What is cellophane?" Cellophane results as a natural transparent sheet generated by a chemical and physical treatment of a viscous solution of wood or cotton cellulose (the carbohydrate constituents of plant cells). It's used to wrap cigars because the membrane's porosity allows gaseous exchanges between the cigar and its environment; and its solidity confers a solid protection.

The use of cello from the perspective of the cigar industry can be understood by looking at the following areas:

Production - Even if the passionate eye can barely discern the beauty of a lush wrapper leaf through this protective membrane, some manufacturers see the cello as essential protection for their cigars from the hands of the rollers to the aficionados. Dressing a cigar in cellophane reduces the detrimental impacts of various distribution adversities such as transport shocks, humidity or temperature changes. Moreover, the cello can be an effective tool for bar-coding.

Retail - One of the novice's very first perceptions of a cigar's quality is tactile. Often times, many aficionados will not consider purchasing the cigar before touching it, and choose to evaluate its rolling quality before making their decision. Unfortunately, not all novices know Jose Marti's maxim, "The cigar, you should treat it as if it was a delicate Lady." So, an unprotected cigar can be quickly damaged by a careless consumer. To avoid this, the use of cello as protection makes the most sense. Also, if not physically damaging to the wrapper, dirty or soapy hands can negatively affect the aroma of the leaf. It is also worth mentioning that in the rare case of tobacco beetle infection, though the Lasioderma can drill through the natural outer wrapper's membrane, the cellophane can keep them contained.

The Consumer - You can say that a "relationship" is developed between cigar smokers and their cigars. The cigar is admired, touched, smelled, and finally put against the lips to be tasted. As this relationship can be very intimate and sensual, cigar smokers do not want to taste cigars that have been touched! The cello can be considered hygienic protection against "the uninvited unknown" that could have potentially violated the "virginity" of the yet-to-be-tasted cigar. Additionally, depending on the conditions while handling or traveling with cigars before they're smoked, cellophane helps keep them in good condition for at least a couple of hours or more.

Home Aging - Since tobacco undergoes slow fermentation, aging is more effective when the tobacco mass is greater. In other words, the more cigars in the humidor, the better the aging process will be. So, knowing that any membrane - even if porous - is a barrier to chemical exchanges, the cello actually reduces this highly desirable and beneficial phenomenon.

For that matter, if you want to limit the transfer of dominant aromas between adjacent cigars in the humidor, the cello can be seen as a positive barrier. If the objective is aging cigars individually for a long period, some consider the cello to be a good option because the aromas maintained are more confined around the cigar. However, in cases where a number of cigars are conserved together in optimal conditions - as in aging an entire box - having the cigars "naked" is probably better for the aging process.

So in conclusion, yes, the cellophane protects your cigars against the adversities of distribution and handling, even if it visually curtains the beauty of the wrapper. But when aging cigars ideally in your humidor, the dynamic of the process is reduced when the cigars are maintained in cellophane.

Whether cello is optimal or not on your cigars really depends on what you have and want: the type of cigars, their number, their homogeneity, and your conservation goal and timeframe. *The best answer is to develop your own experience. Take similar cigars with and without cello, age them separately for some time, and then taste the difference! *


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## MoreBeer (Feb 13, 2010)

smelvis said:


> This is one reason I say leave the cello on, I am so tired of throwing away very good cigars meant for the troops.


The above can *NEVER* happen when storing your cigars with no cello.... *NEVER* unless you abuse it somehow.


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## Coop D (Oct 19, 2008)

I think Bill Clinton left the cello on his cigars for some reason....


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## Johnny Rock (Jun 25, 2010)

MoreBeer said:


> The above can *NEVER* happen when storing your cigars with no cello.... *NEVER* unless you abuse it somehow.


With respect, I think smelvis stated that this happened during shipping, not during storage. So the abuse was prior to him recieving it for shipment to the troops, and that may be what makes him a fan of cellos. Hence a perfectly rested naked soldier in all probability rendered unsuitable for the troops.

Me, on the other hand, I prefer cellos that come on my cigars because I rotate them in my humis on a regular basis. My naked ones get rotated less often, and some foot damage does occur no matter how careful I am when I do rotate them.

Maybe I should only rotate the naked ones early in the day before I have had my imbibement...


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## smelvis (Sep 7, 2009)

Coop D said:


> So what about Tubos???
> 
> I like the tubos better then the cello


I don't know Scott, I have maybe minimum 4000 of mine Plus a bunch of the troops and the only ones I throw away have been sent to me nude, I had mold in tubes twice both was from recent shipments, I have tubes pretty damn old and no problems.

I think cello off only guy's have small collections or boxed only or something. I hate to through away cigars.


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## ongreystreet (Nov 3, 2008)

smelvis said:


> I think cello off only guy's have small collections or boxed only or something. I hate to through away cigars.


I think Smelvis is leaning in the same direction I am.

If you want a 20-50, or maybe even 100 ct humidor on your desk to look nice and show your buddies, then take off the cello and enjoy the view and smell, or hell just buy some Cubans. But if you're in for some serious storage, keep the protection on, you should be more concerned with protecting your cigars so they smoke well, not unwrapping them since they look cool.


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## Cigary (Oct 19, 2007)

I'm a committed middle of the road guy...if it comes in Cello I leave em in there but I clip both ends so I can get the protection of the cello and I want both ends exposed to at least get a modicum of air into the tobacco...how much actually gets in the tobacco? Who knows but it makes me feel good. There is no 'right/wrong' answer here as it's all about what the individual wants and what their experience tells them. My 40 years experience tells me there is no difference between one that was kept in cello or one completely naked as it's subjective at best no matter what the argument. I've seen very educated and very experienced people get fooled on this matter. Unless you are a bloodhound with special olfactories you are never going to be able to pick out any cigar that was wrapped in cello/naked in a consistant blind test. It's embarrassing to sit there and partake in them and get fooled...I've seen it happen more than a few times and the people who got fooled were not only upset and bitter about the test but actually walked out of the test because their pride was more important. This is why I go both ways,,,,keep em on and cut both ends and still use it as a "cigar condom" for protection.


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## smelvis (Sep 7, 2009)

Well said Gary, you sound like the little guy on my left shoulder while the guy on my right shoulder is saying go for it. LOL


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## Coop D (Oct 19, 2008)

I am lazy and just leave the cellos on if they come with it. Otherwise the ones that come without cellos get organized very nicely so I don't have to rummage through them at all.

I actually have not had any mold issues with Tubos at all. keeping my fingers crossed that a shipment doesn't show up with mold in it. But then again having them check it in the special instructions should prevent that from happening


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## MoreBeer (Feb 13, 2010)

Johnny Rock said:


> With respect, I think smelvis stated that this happened during shipping, not during storage. So the abuse was prior to him recieving it for shipment to the troops, and that may be what makes him a fan of cellos. Hence a perfectly rested naked soldier in all probability rendered unsuitable for the troops.
> 
> Me, on the other hand, I prefer cellos that come on my cigars because I rotate them in my humis on a regular basis. My naked ones get rotated less often, and some foot damage does occur no matter how careful I am when I do rotate them.
> 
> Maybe I should only rotate the naked ones early in the day before I have had my imbibement...


Yes, he did say it happened during shipping. Jumped the gun on the reply I guess. Smelvis is an okay dude, I should send him some sticks for the troops. That pic was pretty nasty though, must have been packed like crap to arrive in that condition and was probably dried out to begin with.


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## Coop D (Oct 19, 2008)

MoreBeer said:


> Yes, he did say it happened during shipping. Jumped the gun on the reply I guess. Smelvis is an okay dude, I should send him some sticks for the troops. That pic was pretty nasty though, must have been packed like crap to arrive in that condition and was probably dried out to begin with.


Smelvis is more then okay, he is very "special" :madgrin:


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## Scardinoz (Mar 15, 2010)

I have had mold once and it was a tube.

I am pleased when I receive them in cello as I know they have been protected but when it comes to lay them to rest, I remove the cello. If I am moving them from my coolerdor to the humidor, I treat them gently. They should never be disturbed beyond that until the day of judgment.


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## ben1000 (Oct 31, 2010)

I'm a cello purist. I like to leave it on when I smoke 'em...

Ben


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## PadillaGuy (Feb 4, 2010)

Ah, the age old question... to cello or not to cello...

Here is my take on the whole thing.

First, remember that cellophane is an organic product, not a chemical byproduct such as plastic. Cellophane is actually made from cellulose fiber which is derived from plant sources. Cellophane is also permeable meaning it allows for the transport of air into and out of the sleeve.

Next, remember that the cellophane does provide a degree of protection for the cigars, particularly at the foot where damage is common.

Now, as for removing the cello's, as has been said before it is a matter of personal preference. My experience has been that using both methods, for different reasons works best.

First, I have one humidor (100 ct.) that I have vintage smokes I've collected on the bottom of the shelf. Over these cigars which I seldom tough, I have a layer of split cedar (small spills made from the divider sheets in boxes) on top of which I "rest" several cigars. Among these I keep several favorites that are good to go at a moment's notice. I do find that these cigars, after sitting naked for a few weeks or more, are in better condition overall and have wrappers that are oilier than those in boxes with their cellos intact.

This is not to say however that cigars stored in humidors in their cellos are any better or worse, just that storing smokes naked allows the humidified air better contact with the whole cigar.

Among my collection, there are cigars that I have removed the cellos from for aging purpose and some which I have a large quantity of that I store all together touching. But, for the most part, my cigars are in the cellos the manufacturer sleeved them with.

And this brings me to my final thought... Most cigars come from the manufacturer in cellophane. Yes, there are a bunch that don't, but the majority do. Now, it only seems logical to me that if the manufacturer put these on the cigars it was for a reason.

It boils down to, as always, a matter of your personal preference. Mix it up, try some cigars with cellos and others of the same brand without.

My only caution is this. Because tobacco leaves, like cedar and leather, is hydrophyllic (meaning it absorbs and releases water) newly purchased cigars put naked into a humidor will soak up the moisture faster than those in cellos. If your humidor runs wet (>70% rH) you may find that your wrappers are wet while the filler is dry. I always let any new cigars that I'm storing naked rest in their new home for at least a week, if not a month. Nothing's worse than getting that great new smoke only to find a wet wrapper is spoiling the whole thing.

Just my thoughts...

Enjoy those smokes!
PG


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## marked (Jul 29, 2010)

Cigary said:


> Lol,,,a better test would be a blind taste test because our subconscious likes to play tricks on us. Anytime we have a "pre disposed" thought process going on it limits objectivity. What you might want to do is do your test again,,,pick out 5 indentical cigars from each humidor and then have someone there assign them numbers that will only be identifiable by them. You smoke them and then decide which cigars are better and the let the person who holds the identity tell you which ones are which. This will let your taste decide and give you a more accurate analysis of your experiment. It's not fair if you already know the outcome.


This.

Also curious... when you picked the pair of cigars to smoke, did you smoke them both the same day? If so, which did you smoke first? If the unwrapped cigar was consistently the first one you lit up, it would make sense that I was more flavorful for you.


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## Krish the Fish (May 3, 2010)

I was thinking about this, and it would be interesting to see when the two cigars begin to taste similarly. For example, keeping the uncello'd one at 10 weeks, when does the one in cellophane begin to taste similar?

Of course, testing this would be extremely difficult, if not impossible, but it would be interesting to find out.


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## Tritones (Jun 23, 2010)

Here's the best use of cello:


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## smelvis (Sep 7, 2009)

Great post Marty, one of the best I have seen on this topic!!


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## Sarge (Nov 21, 2010)

I read they're suppose to come off so that's been my plan. Anything going into the humidor gets butt azz neked. Anything in temporary storage such as a tupperdor stay cello'd. Now hopefully this humidor is seasoned soon and those beads get here so I start working on establishing that stable level. 

Nice post, also a nice article submitted there. That's what I've felt about the subject but it's nice to see that's the case.


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## SuprHasan (Nov 29, 2010)

MoreBeer said:


> About 10 weeks ago I decided to see if there's a difference between keeping my sticks wrapped or not. I took 2 identical 150 count humis and put 50 cigars in each, an identical selection. The humi's both maintained 63% - 66% RH using large bead tubes.
> 
> For the past week I've smoked 9 pairs of cigars, 1 from each humi. The result? The non-cello wrapped cigars win. By a mile! They had more taste, were more consistent throughout, burned better and were just overall a more pleasing smoke.
> 
> ...


Was this a blind test? To achieve this, someone else would have had to retrieve the 'gar for you. If you knew which one was cello/non-cello, this could sway the result.


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## Coop D (Oct 19, 2008)

Tritones said:


> Here's the best use of cello:


Looks like Mom was right to stick with the band lessons :rockon:


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## nighthawk2k8 (Oct 20, 2009)

i personally like them naked.. looks, smells, and tastes great.


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## Johnisnotcool (Mar 7, 2010)

I've always been a cello on guy but this has convinced me to do a test of my own when I get home.

I would like to point out though that it would have been better to have them in the same humidor so that you could be sure that everything was the same except the cello.


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