# Possible Huge problem with first order??



## StogieJim (Sep 18, 2010)

So a ton of guys on here have directed me to this vendor and they all say they are legit, so Im giving em the benefit of the doubt.

Thought I'd ask here before I send an email to them.

Just got my first box purchase ever, Partagas shorts.

2 things that worried me

The serial number has been what looks like scraped or ripped off, and the habanos sticker does not go past the box lid, on both sides.

Please dont tell me I was just sent a box of fakes from a very reputable vendor.

Pics:

Serial number not on the Republica De Cuba sticker:










And the Habanos sticker not extending past box seal on either side:










Man, I hope this is normal, but why on earth would they tear off the serial?

Jim


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## thunderdan11 (Nov 15, 2010)

Most vendors pull of the serial number from what I have read....

check out post number 11 in this thread....

http://www.cigarforums.net/forums/v...61063-verify-your-habanos-stamp-your-box.html


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## StogieJim (Sep 18, 2010)

Thanks for the link man, appreciate that!

So this is very common then when ordering boxes?

How bout that Habanos sticker not extending past the box lid? I thought they wrapped around a good ways past the box lid...

Jim


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## Mante (Dec 25, 2009)

StogieJim said:


> Thanks for the link man, appreciate that!
> 
> So this is very common then when ordering boxes?
> 
> ...


As stated it is common practice for vendors to remove the serial #.

Could it be possible that the vendor opened the box for inspection & folded the habanos sticker inside the lid? I've never seen that before but Cuba is Cuba, not QC. :rockon: If the smokes look right & smell right & smoke right who cares what the box is like? Fire one up!

The box seal looks legit though & is post 2009. If your stressed on it try putting it under a UV lamp & it will fluoresce.


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## Zfog (Oct 16, 2010)

I haven't seen the habanos label like that but you know what they say. Trust your vendor!
Lets see some pics of those sticks! (teehee I rhymed)


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## Tarks (Mar 3, 2009)

You have just purchased "black market" cigars. That's why the barcode has been peeled off.


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## rob51461 (Aug 19, 2010)

Send them to me and Ill inspect them for you


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## StogieJim (Sep 18, 2010)

Tarks said:


> You have just purchased "black market" cigars. That's why the barcode has been peeled off.


Black market?? Legit though?

Man if no one has seen that sticker, its got me worried... and no UV light to test...

I dont know if they smell right  Never seen these before


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## Zfog (Oct 16, 2010)

StogieJim said:


> Black market?? Legit though?
> 
> Man if no one has seen that sticker, its got me worried... and no UV light to test...
> 
> I dont know if they smell right  Never seen these before


I wouldn't worry. Do they smell kind of funky?


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## StogieJim (Sep 18, 2010)

Warren, thanks for the pic man, I guess its a legit box!!

To the freezer they go!

Thanks a lot for the help guys

Jim


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## Mante (Dec 25, 2009)

StogieJim said:


> Black market?? Legit though?
> 
> Man if no one has seen that sticker, its got me worried... and no UV light to test...
> 
> I dont know if they smell right  Never seen these before


Grey market. Yes Legit.


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## Tarks (Mar 3, 2009)

StogieJim said:


> Black market?? Legit though?
> 
> Man if no one has seen that sticker, its got me worried... and no UV light to test...
> 
> I dont know if they smell right  Never seen these before


It's impossible for anyone to say 100% that they are legit, without actually smoking one. You mentioned you ordered from a supplier that was recommended to you from fellow botl's so I wouldn't worry about it. I can tell you 100% that they are black market cigars. The supplier you purchased them from are not an authorized Habanos dealer. The barcode is pulled off to protect the authorized dealer that sold them. Or to protect the person that is "back dooring" them out of Cuba.

The more educated I become, the more and more disgruntled I get with these black market online dealers. That's is a whole different topic though.


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## Mante (Dec 25, 2009)

So by that reasoning Jeff, when I buy a US product from the distributor and onsell it, not being an authorised distributor myself, I am a black market dealer? Most every repair shop anyone visits does this every day, legally.

Computer parts are a prime example. You can walk into your local PC shop & purchase say a hard drive, unboxed but genuine & legally distributed for far less than the boxed version from the manufacturer. These are still happily sold in bulk by the manufacturer and definitely not black market either.


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## Tarks (Mar 3, 2009)

Tashaz said:


> So by that reasoning Jeff, when I buy a US product from the distributor and onsell it, not being an authorised distributor myself, I am a black market dealer? Most every repair shop anyone visits does this every day, legally.


I am just explaining to OP why the barcode has been removed. There are legit reasons why it has been removed. "black market" is the term used in the Cuban cigar world to describe these vendors. I didn't make this stuff up. HSA has put these codes on the boxes as a way for the end user to authenticate the boxes and for them (HSA) to track the sale of the boxes.

This is a huge problem in Cuba right now. People are getting shit canned because of the grey market. It's a complicated situation.


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## Mante (Dec 25, 2009)

Tarks said:


> I am just explaining to OP why the barcode has been removed. There are legit reasons why it has been removed. "black market" is the term used in the Cuban cigar world to describe these vendors. I didn't make this stuff up. HSA has put these codes on the boxes as a way for the end user to authenticate the boxes and for them (HSA) to track the sale of the boxes.
> 
> This is a huge problem in Cuba right now. People are getting shit canned because of the grey market. It's a complicated situation.


Fair enough. My point was black market in the rest of the world means illegal & secretive. This is not the case here, just the free market in operation.


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## mvorbrodt (Jan 13, 2010)

Jim,
All is in order.
Most of my orders have the serial number missing, and the boxes are usually opened for inspection. I'm actually surprised then I get a box that's sealed, especially on older stock.

Smoke'em and you'll know for sure 

Or better yet, for a small fee I'll verify each and every cigar for you, just send them to me and in about a month I'll get back to you with detailed opinion on every one


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## canuck2099 (Oct 13, 2010)

Tashaz said:


> Fair enough. My point was black market in the rest of the world means illegal & secretive. This is not the case here, just the free market in operation.


Actually Warren, I would argue that this is exactly the case. Cubans are illegal in the States and this box has been discreetly sold and sent - black-market ! You Aussies - stick to stuff you know like cricket, roo hunting and harrassing innocent young female AFL fans !:bounce:


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## canuck2099 (Oct 13, 2010)

canuck2099 said:


> Actually Warren, I would argue that this is exactly the case. Cubans are illegal in the States and this box has been discreetly sold and sent - black-market ! You Aussies - stick to stuff you know like cricket, roo hunting and harrassing innocent young female AFL fans !:bounce:[/QUOTE
> 
> Better explain....
> 
> Just so everyone knows, I'm originally an Aussie, so it's not like I'm being an ass........ Just one Aussie giving $#it to another !


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## Mante (Dec 25, 2009)

canuck2099 said:


> Actually Warren, I would argue that this is exactly the case. Cubans are illegal in the States and this box has been discreetly sold and sent - black-market ! You Aussies - stick to stuff you know like cricket, roo hunting and harrassing innocent young female AFL fans !:bounce:


Sorry Scott, I forgot that you being an Aussie living in Canada have now attained the lofty heights of superiority. LMAO. ound::lock1::fencing: :welcome::cheeky:

On a serious note, what is it called if exactly the same purchase happens & I am the purchaser?

To the OP. Forget all this other crap, nice smokes & I hope you enjoy them mate.:rockon:


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## sengjc (Nov 15, 2010)

Most vendors will remove the barcode to protect their 'unsanctioned' sources, though occasionally they let a few slip which is good because you can then verify the origin of the box and by extension, increase the vendors credibility rating.

The fact that the 'Habanos' sticker has been peeled back indicates the box has been opened before. How the seal managed to remain intact if the box has been opened means the seal was probably reapplied. The tell-tale sign of the chevron not intersecting the edge of the box strongly suggests the reapplication of the seal was botched.

Unfortunately, in this instance, I will be highly suspicious.

If both the seal and the sticker has been cut, I will be less suspicious if it came from a vendor I trust as it may just mean that he/she checked the box prior to shipping. However I always ask for sealed, unopened boxes even if it means I receive a mold ridden, beetle infested box of super limited gran reserves. At least I know it is the real thing and the integrity of the supply link is maintained. In the long run, it is a small price to pay, according to my reasoning.

Am I allowed to ask for a PM divulging this particular vendor's details that I may avoid dealing with them?


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## StogieJim (Sep 18, 2010)

Seng the Habanos sticker was never removed and the box is still sealed...

Its just that the habanos sticker seems shorter than what Ive seen. but now I see that post 2009 that is what the habano sticker looks like, it has definitely not been cut or anything like that.

I shouldn't have to worry if these are real! Thats why I ordered online from overseas, from a place who's website says Habanos official dealer... and a ton of BOTL's have recommended them to me!

Ehh, Im sure they are legit.... gonna stick em in the freezer tomorrow and enjoy a couple in a few weeks


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## sengjc (Nov 15, 2010)

Thanks for the clarification, Jim. I didn't realize the Habanos sticker has changed even on the recent boxes I got until Warren pointed it out in this thread.

Looks like a goodly box of the good stuff then, enjoy.


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## TonyBrooklyn (Jan 28, 2010)

Zfog said:


> I haven't seen the habanos label like that but you know what they say. Trust your vendor!
> Lets see some pics of those sticks! (teehee I rhymed)


+1 good answer Zach!:rockon:
My response to your P.M states exactly that Jim!

Hey Jim
From what i have been told/ heard from other BOTL your vendor is beyond reproach. Quite frankly its a little late not to trust him now isn't it. The idea is to build trust before placing the order IMHO.
Regards
Tony:bounce:

My God i could never understand why someone would spend their money with a vendor. Sit on pins and needles tills it comes. Then question the hell out of it when it does. Its like sitting at home in the dark drink in hand waiting for a cheating spouse to come home.:decision:


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## Johnny Rock (Jun 25, 2010)

ROTFLMAO!!!! Tried to bump you on that one Tony, but got the dreaded:


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## Tarks (Mar 3, 2009)

Tashaz said:


> Fair enough. My point was black market in the rest of the world means illegal & secretive. This is not the case here, just the free market in operation.


I disagree. Many of the cigars being sold on these sites are being pushed out the back door of Cuba, illegally. For this reason, they are black market cigars and for this reason there are many people who choose not too order from these sites. It doesn't matter where the consumer lives (Aussie/Canada/US...where ever), if they purchase cigars off certain discount online sites they are purchasing black market cigars.


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## Tarks (Mar 3, 2009)

For the record. Many of my cigars have come from these sites so I'm with most of you. I'm just making a point to make people aware of why the barcode is removed.


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## StogieJim (Sep 18, 2010)

LMFAO Tony, I tried to bump you again, but it wouldn't let me!

Yes, that was directed toward me, but Ive got a pretty good sense of humor, and thought that last paragraph was a classic!

Anyways man, beyond reproach? What exactly does that mean? They are beyond a doubt authentic? Or they are scam artists who wont admit to anything? 

Should I take a pic of the stick for you guys? 

Jim


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## Rodeo (May 25, 2009)

Tarks said:


> I disagree. Many of the cigars being sold on these sites are being pushed out the back door of Cuba, illegally. For this reason, they are black market cigars and for this reason there are many people who choose not too order from these sites. It doesn't matter where the consumer lives (Aussie/Canada/US...where ever), if they purchase cigars off certain discount online sites they are purchasing black market cigars.


Jeff, I know that you travel to Cuba, and therefore know more about this than may of us on this forum, so I'd like to hear more. Are you saying they are stolen cigars? I always believed that they come out of the country legally to legit distributors, who then, when they have excess stock, or just when need some cash I suppose, sell some of their cigars to unauthorized dealers. They cut the source code off so the box cannot be traced back to the legit distributor, who would get in trouble if caught selling "backdoor" to the unauthorized retailers.

In addition to cash and getting excess inventory out the door, the legit distributors who do this also benefit because it increases their volume and therefore their future allotment of cigars.

Hence the term "gray market." Anyone into cars knows about gray market cars, which are not EPA/DOT certified but find their way into the USA. They're not stolen, they're just not supposed to be sold in whatever country they were exported, and get no support/warranty from the factory.

No firsthand knowledge here, so would appreciate you input.


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## TonyBrooklyn (Jan 28, 2010)

StogieJim said:


> LMFAO Tony, I tried to bump you again, but it wouldn't let me!
> 
> Yes, that was directed toward me, but Ive got a pretty good sense of humor, and thought that last paragraph was a classic!
> 
> ...


The paragraph was directed towards anyone silly enough to place an order then question its authenticity. Especially after many BOTL verified your source and told you they where ok. To then start a thread and question the authenticity of said cigars well just plain silly again. Your reading way to much into this Jim its really not that complex a process. If you had purchased the cigars without any outside help. Then i could see the reason for your distrust! You now want to post pictures of the cigars. I think maybe this is not something you should not do again. To have such lack of trust for anything and contractually do it again. IMHO is really silly. 
To answer your question about beyond reproach jeez that's a tough one. 
:noidea::noidea::noidea::noidea::noidea:


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## TonyBrooklyn (Jan 28, 2010)

Rodeo said:


> Jeff, I know that you travel to Cuba, and therefore know more about this than may of us on this forum, so I'd like to hear more. Are you saying they are stolen cigars? I always believed that they come out of the country legally to legit distributors, who then, when they have excess stock, or just when need some cash I suppose, sell some of their cigars to unauthorized dealers. They cut the source code off so the box cannot be traced back to the legit distributor, who would get in trouble if caught selling "backdoor" to the unauthorized retailers.
> 
> In addition to cash and getting excess inventory out the door, the legit distributors who do this also benefit because it increases their volume and therefore their future allotment of cigars.
> 
> ...


I think the point Jeff is trying to make and please correct me if i am wrong. Is these cigars are not obtained in the proper manner. Even if they are not stolen the vendors are not obtaining them through proper channels. Therefore they are not paying proper duties etc. The savings then get passed on to you. Can they be stolen i would imagine that is possible as well. Bottom line for us is if you trust your vendor and they guarantee 100% does it really matter!:yo:


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## Rodeo (May 25, 2009)

I don't know ... I have no problem buying cigars outside the authorized monopolistic distribution system ... I do have a problem buying stolen cigars


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## StogieJim (Sep 18, 2010)

Well said Tony, on both counts.

Sorry if I pissed you off, I definitely did not intend to. its just Ive been scammed so much before, outside the cigar world, Im very leery of everything nowadays!

Thanks for clearing things up!
Jim


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## TonyBrooklyn (Jan 28, 2010)

Rodeo said:


> I don't know ... I have no problem buying cigars outside the authorized monopolistic distribution system ... I do have a problem buying stolen cigars


I understand your point Steve and it is well taken. However we unfortunately do business with people who are for lack of a better term are unscrupulous. So i think anything is possible but we have no way of really knowing for sure. As long as we are not stealing i guess we have to accept the terms for what they are.:yo:



StogieJim said:


> Well said Tony, on both counts.
> 
> Sorry if I pissed you off, I definitely did not intend to. its just Ive been scammed so much before, outside the cigar world, Im very leery of everything nowadays!
> 
> ...


Your Welcome!:wink:
No need to apologize i just hate to see a fellow BOTL doing something he is not happy with. It ruins your whole experience. If you don't trust in the process it doesn't matter how good the cigars are. You won't enjoy it because you have doubts. Now light up one of those bad boys and say to yourself they are real. Then tell us about your great experience!:yo:


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## Tarks (Mar 3, 2009)

Rodeo said:


> Jeff, I know that you travel to Cuba, and therefore know more about this than may of us on this forum, so I'd like to hear more. Are you saying they are stolen cigars? I always believed that they come out of the country legally to legit distributors, who then, when they have excess stock, or just when need some cash I suppose, sell some of their cigars to unauthorized dealers. They cut the source code off so the box cannot be traced back to the legit distributor, who would get in trouble if caught selling "backdoor" to the unauthorized retailers.
> 
> In addition to cash and getting excess inventory out the door, the legit distributors who do this also benefit because it increases their volume and therefore their future allotment of cigars.
> 
> ...


I think you are right Stephen. I am sure that many of these cigars do come from legit distributors but I know that many are "stolen" out of Havana and sold on the black market. It was rumored that the "firing" of some of the HSA higher ups was due to this reason. And I think the lack of stock on many sites is a reflection of the "tightening" up at HSA.

These are my opinions. I have to facts. My opinions are based on conversations I have had with certain people in my travels to Havana.


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## Tarks (Mar 3, 2009)

Rodeo said:


> Jeff, I know that you travel to Cuba, and therefore know more about this than may of us on this forum, so I'd like to hear more. Are you saying they are stolen cigars? I always believed that they come out of the country legally to legit distributors, who then, when they have excess stock, or just when need some cash I suppose, sell some of their cigars to unauthorized dealers. They cut the source code off so the box cannot be traced back to the legit distributor, who would get in trouble if caught selling "backdoor" to the unauthorized retailers.
> 
> In addition to cash and getting excess inventory out the door, the legit distributors who do this also benefit because it increases their volume and therefore their future allotment of cigars.
> 
> ...


I think you are right Stephen. I am sure that many of these cigars do come from legit distributors but I know that many are "stolen" out of Havana and sold on the black market. It was rumored that the "firing" of some of the HSA higher ups was due to this reason. And I think the lack of stock on many sites is a reflection of the "tightening" up at HSA.

These are my opinions. I have no facts. My opinions are based on conversations I have had with certain people in my travels to Havana.


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## bpegler (Mar 30, 2006)

Tarks said:


> I think you are right Stephen. I am sure that many of these cigars do come from legit distributors but I know that many are "stolen" out of Havana and sold on the black market. It was rumored that the "firing" of some of the HSA higher ups was due to this reason. And I think the lack of stock on many sites is a reflection of the "tightening" up at HSA.
> 
> These are my opinions. I have no facts. My opinions are based on conversations I have had with certain people in my travels to Havana.


Jeff,

In fairly certain you are right. I think this tightening up also explains why some vendors are no longer with us. 
To the OP :

Jim, the fake cigar vendors don't cut the codes off their boxes. Only grey market cigars come that way. As long as you trust the BOTLs who recommend this source, you are fine.

Just think about the old days when most cigars came unbanded, in generic boxes. That was a real leap Of faith.


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## StogieJim (Sep 18, 2010)

Hmmm, I posted to this, but it looks like it never went through!

What I said was that I trust all the BOTL's on this site, so Im happy with my purchase!

Also, to your second comment, I never thought about it in that way! That is definitely a leap of faith!!

Now I wonder why my post didnt go through!

Jim

Oh and I spared one from the freezer bath, do you think a week is enough rest before I can smoke it?


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## Zfog (Oct 16, 2010)

StogieJim said:


> Hmmm, I posted to this, but it looks like it never went through!
> 
> What I said was that I trust all the BOTL's on this site, so Im happy with my purchase!
> 
> ...


F it smoke one, I myself have never been to patient. Nor have I had a problem from doing so! Tell us what you think.


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## smelvis (Sep 7, 2009)

StogieJim said:


> Hmmm, I posted to this, but it looks like it never went through!
> 
> What I said was that I trust all the BOTL's on this site, so Im happy with my purchase!
> 
> ...


Jim
If it's not here no worries I saw it as well. I say smoke one and don't worry. As far as posting the thread there has been some good info I didn't know so Thanks for starting it.

Dave :yo:

PS
I'm with Zach Light one up now, I have never been able to wait


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## TonyBrooklyn (Jan 28, 2010)

StogieJim said:


> Hmmm, I posted to this, but it looks like it never went through!
> 
> What I said was that I trust all the BOTL's on this site, so Im happy with my purchase!
> 
> ...


My brother i have taken one right out of the freezer and smoked it!!!!!!:wink:
Enjoy bro life's too short!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:yo:


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## smelvis (Sep 7, 2009)

TonyBrooklyn said:


> My brother i have taken one right out of the freezer and smoked it!!!!!!:wink:
> Enjoy bro life's too short!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:yo:


Right on Brother, Live for today for tomorrow may never come. Great advice and I need to learn it a little better myself. Thanks for the reminder!!

Dave


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## Zfog (Oct 16, 2010)

TonyBrooklyn said:


> My brother i have taken one right out of the freezer and smoked it!!!!!!:wink:
> Enjoy bro life's too short!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:yo:


I heard you say this before and its one of the reasons I suggested to just smoke one. 
Life truly is to short! :wink:


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## Johnny Rock (Jun 25, 2010)

Smoke that bad boy. It's a short so it shouldn't take too long :ss


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## Frinkiac7 (Dec 12, 2008)

FWIW, from the same vendor I have variably received seals with a barcode, with the barcode ripped off, or with the barcode ripped off and a non-coded seal reapplied over the ripped one. More often than not, I actually do get one with a code that I can punch in on the Habanos website, and they always come up as authentic. So no worries.

I'm certain they are all "grey market," but that's fine with me. Even getting them here in the U.S. is rather "grey," so I'll do what I have to in order to get them. If HSA execs get canned for letting some cigars out the back door or through unofficial channels, that's bad for them, but doesn't really affect me as a consumer. I don't have any kind of moral dilemma about it, they certainly were aware they were going outside the official distribution system and running the risk. As an end-of-the-line consumer, I just want good cigars.


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## StogieJim (Sep 18, 2010)

You guys ROCK! I really love your outlook on life, which is something I'm learning slowly just by being on this great forum!!

Thank you!!!

Jim

I'd bump you guys, but it says Ive given out too much in the last 24 hours


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## TonyBrooklyn (Jan 28, 2010)

smelvis said:


> Right on Brother, Live for today for tomorrow may never come. Great advice and I need to learn it a little better myself. Thanks for the reminder!!
> 
> Dave





Zfog said:


> I heard you say this before and its one of the reasons I suggested to just smoke one.
> Life truly is to short! :wink:


I don't think its how much time we get. But rather what we do with it. That's why its nice to take a moment to smell the flowers!:wink:
Anyway how ever much time God gives us! My signature my Fathers R.I.P favorite saying is my wish for everyone!:wink:


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## rob51461 (Aug 19, 2010)

Dude!! Theyre ****ing fine smoke them or send them back!!


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## Athion (Jul 17, 2010)

Rodeo said:


> I don't know ... I have no problem buying cigars outside the authorized monopolistic distribution system ... I do have a problem buying stolen cigars


At the risk of starting an argument (honestly not my intent)... I just wanted to point out the incongruity of this ... so you're ok with breaking US law, but not Cuban law? LOL 

Again, I just thought it was kinda funny (and yes, im wierd  )


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## gator_79 (Sep 16, 2009)

Cool, at least you got yours. Mine shipped the same day so hopefully it will be here Monday or Tuesday.


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## sengjc (Nov 15, 2010)

Oo...oo...just got me box of Cohiba Genios and a certain vendor forgot to remove the serial number. Oversight perhaps?

Time to do some 'investigative journalism'...tonight when the wife's asleep.


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## sengjc (Nov 15, 2010)

sengjc said:


> Oo...oo...just got me box of Cohiba Genios and a certain vendor forgot to remove the serial number. Oversight perhaps?
> 
> Time to do some 'investigative journalism'...tonight when the wife's asleep.


Yeap, the 12 digit code checked out alright.


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## Mante (Dec 25, 2009)

sengjc said:


> Yeap, the 12 digit code checked out alright.


Must be "Black" market then! :dunno::thumb::biglaugh::nono::bolt:


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## sengjc (Nov 15, 2010)

Eh? Can be from the supermarket so as long as it is legit.


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## Rodeo (May 25, 2009)

Athion said:


> At the risk of starting an argument (honestly not my intent)... I just wanted to point out the incongruity of this ... so you're ok with breaking US law, but not Cuban law? LOL
> 
> Again, I just thought it was kinda funny (and yes, im wierd  )


No prob ... I'm a little strange myself 

Its not so much what is legal or illegal, but rather what is right or wrong. Buying something made in a country that the USA "doesn't like" because of circumstances that may have been valid 50 years ago but are kept alive today only because Florida has sought-after electoral votes doesn't seem to me to be morally wrong.

Purchasing stolen goods? Well, if people didn't buy stolen merchandise, there would be a lot less stealing. So the buyers are an essential component of the morally wrong activity.

To muddle matters a bit, though, if the cigars are indeed stolen, I guess in the end the victim is Castro, and the regime that keeps him in power. And the beneficiaries are the workers Castro pretends to champion. So maybe not a bad thing to steal from a tyrant?


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## sirxlaughs (Nov 18, 2005)

Tashaz said:


> Fair enough. My point was black market in the rest of the world means illegal & secretive. This is not the case here, just the free market in operation.


edit: Should've finished reading through the thread first. LoL


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## lgomez (Aug 9, 2009)

alright so TLR past first page. if theres still an issue ill gladly assist you in the ceremonious retirement of those cigars.....


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## WhoDat (Sep 22, 2010)

Jim,

I'm still somewhat of a newbie with ISOM sticks. What I did for my 1st purchase was order a box of cigars which I've smoked before. I figured if I bought a box of cigars which I've smoked before, I'd have a better idea if they were legit as opposed to purchasing something I've never smoked and not being sure. I also thought the outcome of this purchase will determine future purchases (if fake, odds are future purchases will be fakes / if legit, odds are future purchases will be legit). 

This is just one man's opinion and how I approached my 1st purchase. 

In the end, the best thing to do is:
1. trust your sources
2. contact other BOTL's with questions
3. do your homework
4. sit back, relax, and smoke a cigar!:ss:ss


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## GrtndpwrflOZ (May 17, 2007)

I concur, GREY Market

Don't worry



Tashaz said:


> Grey market. Yes Legit.


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## GrtndpwrflOZ (May 17, 2007)

I concur, GREY Market
Don't worry
How can you when you're buying illegal drugs.



Tashaz said:


> Grey market. Yes Legit.


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## CraigJS (Dec 23, 2009)

Oh Geeez now I'm a "drug" addict....


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## sengjc (Nov 15, 2010)

CraigJS said:


> Oh Geeez now I'm a "drug" addict....


Yeah, and "getting high" on "stolen drugs". If the cops don't get ya, the drug lords will.


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