# Fred Hanna's "Tin Baking" technique



## cpmcdill (Jan 11, 2014)

Came across this method to make Virginia tobaccos take on a smoother, richer and deeper flavor. Fred Hanna swears by it, and even Greg Pease seems to approve of it, though he suggests letting it sit for 5 days after cooling for optimal results.

Fred Hanna:
"Over the past month or so, I have been experimenting with a different tobacco treatment. I say it's new only because I do not know of anyone who has done it in quite this way. This method may not be new at all but here it is, and I believe I am on to something. BUT TRY THIS AT YOUR OWN RISK!!! 

The technique is limited in application, but results so far have been exciting, for me, but I am still experimenting. It's quite simple. I call the process, "220 for 220." I have used this mostly on Virginia (and some English) tobaccos up to this point but intend to try it with more Virginia and English blends soon. Here's what I have been doing. As I said, it's quite simple, really.


I take the ENTIRE TIN, UNOPENED and STILL SEALED, of a Virginia or English tobacco, REMOVE THE PLASTIC TOP and place it in the oven for 2 hrs and 20 mins, at a temperature of 220°. I do not remove the label as this temp is too cold to set the paper on fire. Some tins swell and expand at the lid, but they seem to reduce to normal size, or nearly so, after cooling. So far, McClelland, Rattray's, McCranie's, and Pease tins have not popped open (with the exception of 1 tin of St. James Woods). The tall tins tend to hold their seal throughout the process. THE FLAT TINS, such as Escudo and Solani DO POP THEIR SEAL BUT THE RESULT IS STILL POSITIVE, for me, at least, as the tobacco inside does not dry out or become "roasted." After cooling for a few hours, I remove the tobac from the baked tin and place it in a separate container.


THE RESULTS? This process seems to change the tobacco in such a way as to, like stoving, make the tobac more dark in color, and makes it smoke more mellow, smooth, and often more sweet. Several experienced pipe smoking friends who have smoked tins thus treated agree with this assessment.


Try it with a tangy, sharp 2003 or 2004 Christmas Cheer and see what happens. This method made a tin full of the current version of McCranie's Red Ribbon smoke downright heavenly. And with the McClelland's, the vinegary ketchup smell reduces significantly, just as it does with aging. And it made a tin of Rattray's Marlin Flake smell like oatmeal raisin cookies (must be some topping they put on it, that I was previously unaware of), but the topping seemed to meld nicely with the tobacco. I have not done this with aromatics and probably will not."

Some people have had similar success with tobacco in a mason jar with foil over the top (not sealed!). I have jars of flue-cured Virginia that I have shredded from whole leaf, and I'm thinking of trying an experiment with one.

I should add that it's not a substitute for aging. It's more like "stoving" -- it alters the flavor. If nothing else, it could be a fun experiment to see how it affects certain blends that, as they are, you maybe aren't loving. Many people say it reduces the tongue-bite effect common to certain blends.


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## Mr. Motoyoshi (Mar 19, 2014)

I would gladly play guinea pig with this but I don't have an oven. Damn Japan...

Sounds very interesting though. Really enjoyed listening to Fred Hanna's interview on that website about pipes and magazines.


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## Branzig (Jul 14, 2013)

I'd be to worried about the tin exploding :lol:


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## cpmcdill (Jan 11, 2014)

Branzig said:


> I'd be to worried about the tin exploding :lol:


According to what I've read, Hanna's experiments found that at 190-220 degrees, the tins only slightly expand, then settle after the tobacco cools. At higher temps there is more risk of bursting seals.

The mason jar with foil approach may work well if you're nervous about the tins.


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## Branzig (Jul 14, 2013)

Hmmmm...interesting.

There are a couple blends that I can think of that would benefit from this process...I bet Anniversary Kake would just come alive going through this process...


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## Commander Quan (May 6, 2003)

People have been talking about doing this for years. Besides the oven baking, one method was putting the tobacco inside a crock pot slow cooker, another less precise method was leaving a tin sit on the dash of a hot car.


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## cpmcdill (Jan 11, 2014)

Commander Quan said:


> People have been talking about doing this for years. Besides the oven baking, one method was putting the tobacco inside a crock pot slow cooker, another less precise method was leaving a tin sit on the dash of a hot car.


I read about it in Hanna's book The Perfect Smoke: Gourmet Pipe Smoking for Relaxation and Reflection (2013), and then looked around at forums and articles to see what people were saying. Didn't see any prior threads about it on Puff, but maybe I didn't use the right search terms. Hanna first presented his findings in an article he wrote some time around 2008, and that appears to have allowed ample time for other people to experiment with the technique and find other ways to get similar results.

The Crock Pot approach seems more energy-efficient than using an oven, and would be easier to clean up if the seal on the tin bursts.


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## NeverBend (Aug 29, 2009)

cpmcdill said:


> Some tins swell and expand at the lid, but they seem to reduce to normal size, or nearly so, after cooling. So far, McClelland, Rattray's, McCranie's, and Pease tins have not popped open (with the exception of 1 tin of St. James Woods). The tall tins tend to hold their seal throughout the process. THE FLAT TINS, such as Escudo and Solani DO POP THEIR SEAL BUT THE RESULT IS STILL POSITIVE, for me, at least, as the tobacco inside does not dry out or become "roasted." After cooling for a few hours, I remove the tobac from the baked tin and place it in a separate container.


Hi Cpmcdill,

As some of you may now be aware, I eschew these _new-fangled_, _artificial _methods to accelerate ageing (_for goodness sake isn't it happening fast enough_) of my tobacco. My preferred method is to let the tin sit, undisturbed, for *precisely 29 years*. My next batch will be ready in *2043*, just after the conclusion of the *Haitian *(_and their subjugated allies)_ - *Armenian *(_allied with their imperial provinces_) *War* for world dominance.

The use of heat (and pressure) is common in tobacco processing. The flat tins use an older sealing technology that's not going to be as reliable as the 'tall' tins (anyone know the technical name for this type of pop top sealing process and do they use nitrogen?).

I'd suggest that those interested in pursuing the 'baking' process (impatient fools - can't wait even 20 years!) do so with only as much tobacco as you want to smoke in the near future. Swelling of the tins may indicate that the seal integrity is breached and that there are gasses in the tin (how else does it swell), either from this forced fermentation or improper seal at the factory (or nitrogen?).

To understand the _gas expansion_ that you should anticipate I refer you to this equation: 
*PV = nRT* (aka: *Ideal Gas Law*). 
Let me take a moment to remove my tongue from my cheek.



cpmcdill said:


> I should add that it's not a substitute for aging. It's more like "stoving" -- it alters the flavor. If nothing else, it could be a fun experiment to see how it affects certain blends that, as they are, you maybe aren't loving. Many people say it reduces the tongue-bite effect common to certain blends.


It would seem to me that this process does replace _ageing_. You're cooking the tobacco that forces release of sugars, _fermentation _and a _marriage _of flavors. Smoother makes sense but I'd expect that flavors would be less distinct and that results will be proportional to the sugar content of the constituent leaf. If you baked a pure Oriental/Latakia (no virginia) I think you'd just end up with hot tobacco.

Interesting topic, good post. To those who try the methods, please post results in _Scientific Review Format _(or scribble will do).

Regards,

Pete


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## MarkC (Jul 4, 2009)

Commander Quan said:


> People have been talking about doing this for years. Besides the oven baking, one method was putting the tobacco inside a crock pot slow cooker, another less precise method was leaving a tin sit on the dash of a hot car.


I thought about trying this a few years ago and never got around to it, but I never thought of using a crock pot. I think a tin of Union Square is about to be sacrificed.

On the other hand, pot roast sounds nice, too...


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## Branzig (Jul 14, 2013)

MarkC said:


> On the other hand, pot roast sounds nice, too...


Boy does it!

I think I will keep my oven and other cooking appliances for food stuffs :lol:


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## Tobias Lutz (Feb 18, 2013)

Commander Quan said:


> another less precise method was leaving a tin sit on the dash of a hot car.


Represent! Old Skool :dude:


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## MarkC (Jul 4, 2009)

Okay, I didn't pick up a chuck roast, so what the heck. I pulled out the newest tin of Union Square I could find (why use an older one?) and popped it in the crock pot. It takes four hours for it to get to the proper temperature, so I figure I'll leave it in for six, to get the two hours over 200. Friday night, I'll see what I end up with.


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## McFortner (May 13, 2007)

What temperature setting would you use on the crock pot? I've got some empty pint mason jars that would easily fit in it.


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## MarkC (Jul 4, 2009)

Mine doesn't have a temperature setting, just a high and a low. According to my web research, the model I have reaches approximately 210 after four hours on high, or after eight hours on low. But I'm starting to get nervous; it's only been in there for half an hour, and it's snapping and popping like crazy as the....I was going to say as the tin expands, but as I was typing it just blew.

Sigh. And with enough force that the crock pot lid flew off and hit the floor. No damage there, thankfully, but there's tobacco everywhere. I feel like I've fallen for a really great practical joke...


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## Tobias Lutz (Feb 18, 2013)

MarkC said:


> Mine doesn't have a temperature setting, just a high and a low. According to my web research, the model I have reaches approximately 210 after four hours on high, or after eight hours on low. But I'm starting to get nervous; it's only been in there for half an hour, and it's snapping and popping like crazy as the....I was going to say as the tin expands, but as I was typing it just blew.
> 
> Sigh. And with enough force that the crock pot lid flew off and hit the floor. No damage there, thankfully, but there's tobacco everywhere. I feel like I've fallen for a really great practical joke...


As long as you didn't wet your pants when the tin went "bang" :biggrin:

I think I'm more likely to try this with a screw-top tin (like some EMP) as opposed to a C&D style tin.


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## Branzig (Jul 14, 2013)

MarkC said:


> But I'm starting to get nervous; it's only been in there for half an hour, and it's snapping and popping like crazy as the....I was going to say as the tin expands, *but as I was typing it just blew.*
> 
> Sigh. And with enough force that the crock pot lid flew off and hit the floor. No damage there, thankfully, but there's tobacco everywhere. I feel like I've fallen for a really great practical joke...


And I said:



Branzig said:


> I'd be to worried about the tin exploding :lol:


:laugh:

Just glad your Crock-pot is ok and that nothing and no one was hurt!


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## Commander Quan (May 6, 2003)

Sorry Mark. Perhaps I should have included the disclaimer that beyond the discussion, I have no first hand knowledge as to the outcome of these experiments. Thank you for taking one for the team.

I'm glad the crock pot wasn't broken. Hopefully no cats were injured in this experiment either.


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## JustTroItIn (Jan 12, 2014)

MarkC said:


> Mine doesn't have a temperature setting, just a high and a low. According to my web research, the model I have reaches approximately 210 after four hours on high, or after eight hours on low. But I'm starting to get nervous; it's only been in there for half an hour, and it's snapping and popping like crazy as the....I was going to say as the tin expands, but as I was typing it just blew.
> 
> Sigh. And with enough force that the crock pot lid flew off and hit the floor. No damage there, thankfully, but there's tobacco everywhere. I feel like I've fallen for a really great practical joke...


I'm sorry for your tobacco loss and the mess, Mark, but I did get quite a laugh after reading this. Thanks for the entertainment!


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## cpmcdill (Jan 11, 2014)

MarkC said:


> No damage there, thankfully, but there's tobacco everywhere. I feel like I've fallen for a really great practical joke...


That's one of the concerns I had about the method, and why I figured it might be best to use mason jars with foil on top. I think many of the tins Hanna used in his experiments were the canister type tins rather than the small metal 50g tins. With a crock pot, the surface temperature at the bottom center, being closer to the heating source, may have become a lot hotter than the rest of the pot. The lesson there may be to raise any tins up onto a small grill or trivet, although I think it's a safe bet you're not planning to try that experiment again. hwell:


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## MarkC (Jul 4, 2009)

cpmcdill said:


> The lesson there may be to raise any tins up onto a small grill or trivet, although I think it's a safe bet you're not planning to try that experiment again. hwell:


You may be correct on the first point; most definitely on the second. :lol:


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## pipinho (Aug 27, 2011)

Search pipster Jim tin baking on youtube, it should help.there was a backlash against it on se verbal forums when the video first popped up. Blenders were angry that people were altering their crafted "taste". But heck that's how whiskey started getting aged in casks, not by the makers but by people who just happened to buy whiskey in empty casks and forget it for a few years.


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## Er999 (May 31, 2013)

....this is interesting....I may try this at some point in the future....:hmm:


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## LewZephyr (Aug 2, 2013)

MarkC said:


> Mine doesn't have a temperature setting, just a high and a low. According to my web research, the model I have reaches approximately 210 after four hours on high, or after eight hours on low. But I'm starting to get nervous; it's only been in there for half an hour, and it's snapping and popping like crazy as the....I was going to say as the tin expands, but as I was typing it just blew.
> 
> Sigh. And with enough force that the crock pot lid flew off and hit the floor. No damage there, thankfully, but there's tobacco everywhere. I feel like I've fallen for a really great practical joke...


Mark - I think those temperatures listed were for a crock-pot that has food stuff in it. i.e. fluids and mass.
Like when you do a roast you have the dense meat pulling heat from the crock.

When I was reading this thread this morning and I saw the mention of a crock-pot, I was going to reply with the above to hopefully divert from the idea. But your experiment happened before my reading.

So, was there any other effect besides tobacco everywhere? Or was there too little time to get the desired results?


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## MarkC (Jul 4, 2009)

Well, the tobacco is very dry; the moisture obviously was expended in the blast. It seems to taste a touch sweeter than Union Square should at this age, but that could very well just be wishful thinking on my part-it was only in there for about half an hour.

I imagine you're right about the crock pot; I was thinking about it and I'm sure this is the problem. Something else I thought about: the tin is sealed, why not just boil it?


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## LewZephyr (Aug 2, 2013)

MarkC said:


> Something else I thought about: the tin is sealed, why not just boil it?


Let us know how that works for ya.... I have a vision of very soggy tobacco. :rain:

If that is the case I bet it does change the flavor.


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## MarkC (Jul 4, 2009)

Oh, no; I had my turn in the barrel...time for the next 'scientist' to step up! :lol:


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## Tobias Lutz (Feb 18, 2013)

MarkC said:


> I imagine you're right about the crock pot; I was thinking about it and I'm sure this is the problem. Something else I thought about: the tin is sealed, why not just boil it?


This might not be a crazy idea if you had a vacuum sealer to put it in a bag and then heated it in a counter-top sous vide unit. Unfortunately, I have neither.


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## NeverBend (Aug 29, 2009)

pipinho said:


> ...Blenders were angry that people were altering their crafted "taste".


I'd think that the blenders would love this! If it's good, _you buy more_. If it blows (whether like Mark's did or by the way that it now tastes), _you buy more_! Where's the downside for them? It's not like you're painting a moustache on a Rembrandt portrait? (Well all of Rembrandt's portraits already have moustaches - even the women!).



MarkC said:


> ... and it's snapping and popping like crazy as the....I was going to say as the tin expands, but as I was typing it just blew.


*Mark*, glad that nothing serious resulted from your experiment. Reminds me of making moonshine (not that I ever did it) when the still blew.



pipinho said:


> ...But heck that's how whiskey started getting aged in casks, not by the makers but by people who just happened to buy whiskey in empty casks and forget it for a few years.


I fell into the _forget it_ category, 5 to 30 years in my case. Problem is, if you don't get open it at the right time you may not be around to taste the next batch!



MarkC said:


> ... I feel like I've fallen for a really great practical joke...


Just an idea, and probably safer, leave it in the sun for an hour or two. It'll get warm - if not hot and any radiation is natural to the tobacco leaf anyway.


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