# Storing sticks at 75-78F



## fimpster (Feb 24, 2016)

So as summer rolls in I realize that the room where my humidors and tupperdor is stored will get into the mid to high 70's F during the day even with the AC running. 

After reading about beetles, I've realized those temps would not be optimal. My question is, if I freeze all my sticks, would there be any problems storing at those temps afterwards? 

Thanks my S/BOTL's.


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## WABOOM (Oct 15, 2015)

condensation and mold.


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## fimpster (Feb 24, 2016)

So to clarify, I'm not talking about 75-78 RH, Im talking *75-78 degrees fahrenheit*. Condensation won't be a problem, as the RH will still be kept 63-65 with plenty of heartfelt beads. The ambient humidity where I live is usually in the 30's or 40's, so the beads will be _adding_ humidity. Or is there something else I'm missing?


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## UBC03 (Nov 18, 2015)

Any chance you could set them by or under an ac vent. That should help. If you have a basement that helps. My house is in the 70s but the basement stays a little cooler.


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## Turkmen (Nov 21, 2015)

I think I might have the same issue (if that is an issue). I have a desktop humidor that I keep in the living room. I noticed that temperature ranges from 70-75F. Is there any implementation to cigar taste? Or it just a higher chance of getting tobacco battles?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## JDom58 (Jul 27, 2015)

I think anything in a humidor up to 78 degrees will be just fine as long as you have the RH regulated below 70. Before I got my wineador a few months back, I had 3 wood humidors going for about a year and the temp in my house over the summer days would reach 78 degrees easy even with the a/c going. I never had an issue with any cigar but I maintained the rh at 65.


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## UBC03 (Nov 18, 2015)

JDom58 said:


> I think anything in a humidor up to 78 degrees will be just fine as long as you have the RH regulated below 70. Before I got my wineador a few months back, I had 3 wood humidors going for about a year and the temp in my house over the summer days would reach 78 degrees easy even with the a/c going. I never had an issue with any cigar but I maintained the rh at 65.


It's pretty hot in South America. .I don't think they keep their warehouses at 65°.I may be wrong but it doesn't sound cost affective. . Like I said before, if you can find a cooler place great. If not really keep am eye on the rh. .63- 65% gives you wiggle room.


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## MikeFox87 (May 5, 2016)

fimpster said:


> So as summer rolls in I realize that the room where my humidors and tupperdor is stored will get into the mid to high 70's F during the day even with the AC running.
> 
> After reading about beetles, I've realized those temps would not be optimal. My question is, if I freeze all my sticks, would there be any problems storing at those temps afterwards?
> 
> Thanks my S/BOTL's.


I don't have much experience with freezing sticks, but I feel like 78 degrees should be fine. Just keep the boxes out of direct sunlight


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## Obsidian (Oct 3, 2014)

UBC03 said:


> It's pretty hot in South America. .I don't think they keep their warehouses at 65°.I may be wrong but it doesn't sound cost affective. . Like I said before, if you can find a cooler place great. If not really keep am eye on the rh. .63- 65% gives you wiggle room.


This, In the factories where the tobacco is dried and stored the temp probably never gets below 80F. High temps should only be an issue as it pertains to hatching beetle eggs. But since your freezing everything it shouldnt be an issue.


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## fimpster (Feb 24, 2016)

So I did some research on this last night and came to the same consensus most of you guys are at. It seems as long as RH is kept in check 75 degrees F or even 78 isn't harmful. 

I even read in several places that beetles aren't really even a problem at those temps if RH is kept under 70. But I also read that it's best to freeze if your humi will be at temps above 70 F. What do you all think? Freezer time?


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## UBC03 (Nov 18, 2015)

Sounds Like a winner


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## ras_oscar (Aug 30, 2015)

fimpster said:


> . What do you all think? Freezer time?


There's a thread on that. Here ya go. http://www.cigarforums.net/forums/vb/general-cigar-discussion/24538-how-properly-freeze-cigars.html

I have never choosen to freeze my sticks. but many BOTLs do.


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## MDinius (Apr 13, 2016)

ras_oscar said:


> There's a thread on that. Here ya go. http://www.cigarforums.net/forums/vb/general-cigar-discussion/24538-how-properly-freeze-cigars.html


Woof, 2006? I would've thought the process (from the supplier side) would have changed since then.


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## azmadurolover (Apr 10, 2016)

fimpster said:


> So I did some research on this last night and came to the same consensus most of you guys are at. It seems as long as RH is kept in check 75 degrees F or even 78 isn't harmful.
> 
> I even read in several places that beetles aren't really even a problem at those temps if RH is kept under 70. But I also read that it's best to freeze if your humi will be at temps above 70 F. What do you all think? Freezer time?


my research said the same.......I have the same issues............that being said, I took the proactive route and did a wineador.........freezing kills, but the temp of freezing and time to kill at said temp(0-F) made me wonder....there is wiggle room.....so I froze for one extra day and bought a wineador.........why risk it I thought.....I sleep better being an anal so and so.........an anal so and so that wont have beetles , or so goes my thinking........does that make me a prepper?:grin2:
http://www.cigarforums.net/forums/vb/general-cigar-discussion/24538-how-properly-freeze-cigars.html
5c (41f) requires ~12 days (275 hours)
0c (32f) requires ~9 days (220 hours)
-5c (23f) requires ~4 days (100 hours)
-10c (14f) requires less than 24 hours
-15c (5f) requires less than 24 hours
-20c (-4f) requires less than 24 hours
as always, puff gives........I always freeze now.........got some special types in the freezer now.........better safe than sorry


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## fimpster (Feb 24, 2016)

ras_oscar said:


> There's a thread on that..


Thanks, I've seen that thread, but it really only talks about how to freeze and if you should/n't freeze, but not when, as in under what storage conditions, you should freeze.

At any rate, from what I've been able to dig up, storing at 75-78 degrees shouldn't require freezing if RH is kept at 62-65. It seems beetles need both temp and RH north of 70 to hatch. I'm going to go with that unless someone comes up with evidence to the contrary.

Thanks all my S/BOTL's for the guidance.


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## Joe Sticks (May 31, 2016)

Thought I'd rehatch this thread (yes - a terrible pun) :wink2: as temps rise. 

Is it still the general opinion that cigars can be stored at temperatures as high as 78F if RH is kept 62-65% ?


Why not 80F or even higher ? What's the max allowable temperature that has been quoted by reliable sources - (not just an internet guess) ?

Thanks


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## Cigary (Oct 19, 2007)

Joe Sticks said:


> Thought I'd rehatch this thread (yes - a terrible pun) :wink2: as temps rise.
> 
> Is it still the general opinion that cigars can be stored at temperatures as high as 78F if RH is kept 62-65% ?
> 
> ...


I've had my cigars stored at up to 78 degrees and have my RH at 65%....no issues at all and this has been over a period off and on for 8 years or so. As far as anything over 80 degrees....that's just tempting the Cigar Gods and I wouldn't do it myself...I love my cigars too much to put em on a roller coaster with no seat belt...JMO.


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## puffnstuff (May 11, 2016)

My A/C broke about a month ago and the temps got up to around 84 in my tupperdor (110+ outside), but maintained around 67RH during the spike. It's been hovering around 76 degrees since I got it fixed. I didn't even realize temp could pose an issue until a few weeks ago! 

I've since bought a new tupperdor and have started freezing everything going into that one. I've been routinely inspecting the old to see if I can spot anything out of sorts (holes, dust), but everything has been fine as far as I can tell. Fingers crossed until that stock depletes. Fortunately I'm just getting going on this hobby so it's only 20 sticks. I could freeze everything but I'm lazy.


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## Grey Goose (May 24, 2016)

This is all in the realm of the subjective, so take what I add for what its worth, just my opinion.

Storing your sticks in 75-80 degrees isn't the end of the world, but you can see the end of the world from there. ;-)

Worrying about beetles as the consequence of improper storage IMO is like an obese person asking if they will die from eating just one more twinkie.

Meaning the collateral damage of one storing cigars for protracted periods of time in too warm of a temperature is unlikely to produce insect infestation, but that should not be your primary concern, the damage you will encounter will be unseen, but it will certainly be there, it will reveal itself in the form of substandard flavor, and the intricacy potential the stick once possessed will not present when you reach for it, let alone allowing the cigars to achieve whatever pinnacle they should/could have.

The factories definitely keep their inventories in cooler rooms, they absolutely do not allow them to remain in elevated temperatures.

Prolonged exposure to those temp's can potentially make a great cigar merely mediocre, and an average stick downright mundane.

Your cigars are the real investment, a wineador if needed, good beads, or a decent hygrometer, etc are just a necessary part of it if you really want to enjoy this hobby IMO.

Just my 2 cents...

Here is a good article from a trusted source:

*Q. You have stated that you personally do not agree with the much-heralded 70°/70% storage for cigars - I believe the British tend to keep a slightly lower humidity level than some others, and it could also be a personal decision among individuals. In your opinion, what is your optimal storage environment? Thank you very much, and I rue the day that you can no longer provide the excellent advice and discussion which you have generously provided.*
*A. The short answer is, I do not know for certain.*
*Nevertheless I think I am still doing better than the people who know. People who repeated mumble the magical numbers 70/70 have not got a clue about when, where, how and why these numbers originated. Most of them do not even know how to calibrate their hygrometers (For electronic digital ones the error is typically +/- 2%, for analog ones, it may even be +/- 5 to 10%).*
*At least I tried to find out and have seemed to find something meaningful.*

*Curiously, nothing really scientific has ever been found on anything published. Mr. Alfred Dunhill had reported to have done some researches undertaken by England's National Physical Laboratory before the First World War. However I have no information about the results. Mr. Dunhill nonetheless, in his book 'The Gentle Art of Smokingâ€�, recommended the ideal temperature for storage of cigars should be '60 to 65°F', but no specific figures for humidity was quoted.*
*This seems to concur with many recent experiments on the effect of heat on wines, which have concluded that the best temperature for storing wines is between 55 to 65°F, beyond 65°F, the fruitiness decreases irreversibly and the absolute cut off point is 70°F, where the rate of destruction of fruitiness increases exponentially. Fruitiness is believed to be aromatic esters which are quite heat unstable. Thus it seems wise to store cigars at 60°F to be on the safe side. A lower temperature would not hurt the wine (nor perhaps the cigar), but it would not serve any useful purpose as the maturation is delayed with no meaningful gain.*
*Further, the theory that tobacco beetle eggs will not hatch below 70°F has been proven (by me!) to be too optimistic. I had many first hand experiences that they hatch at 70°F, but I do not remember encountering a single occasion when there was a beetle problem when cigars are stored at 60°F.*
*Regarding humidity, nothing scientific is known about the exact figures but everyone who has any experience with vintage cigars share the unanimous opinion that the best humidity for aging cigars long term is between 60 to 65%. Cigars which are stored at 70% seem to fail to age as beautifully and it is well known that cigars which is too humid e.g. 75% will lose all their bouquets in no time.*
*I normally age my cigars at 60°F and 65% RH for new cigars. For very old cigars, I store them at 55°F and 60% RH wrapped air-tight. I do not know for certain whether these figures are the most 'correct', but it had worked so far so good.*
*So how did the 70/70 myth originated? A very good speculation goes like this :*
*Cigars taste best at 72% RH., minus 1% for each five years of age. I discovered this by trial and error ages ago. Sometime later I read from a book that Mr. Davidoff insisted to sell his cigars at 72%. He probably discovered this by trial and error too. As cigars sold a few decades ago had already been aged for a few years when leaving the factory, and reputable merchants like Dunhill insisted to age them further before release, a cigar which a customer bought in those good old days had typically been already 10 years old. They should taste best at 70% RH. And somebody had obviously made the easy mistake that if a cigar tastes best at 70 %, they should age best at the same RH. (Mr. Davidoff mentioned in his book 'The Connoisseur's Book of the Cigar' that the 'ideal' RH of storing cigars should be 'between 67 to 72%', apparently he had also succumbed to this method of thinking.*
*The 70°F probably originated when a certain 'expert' had decided that according to a nineteenth century book on insects that beetle eggs do not hatch below 70°F, cigars should therefore best be stored below that temperature. And naturally people would think that if cigars were best stored below that temperature, they should age best at that temperature as well.*
*As the 70/70 are round figures, they are easily remembered and most quoted. Eventually the most quoted becomes the truth, as the majority is always right. That reminds me of a saying by Mark Twain : 10% of people think, 10% of people think that they think, the remaining 80% would rather die than think.*
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*All the more reason for Malaysians, or anyone living in warm climates to buy themselves a cigar chiller to ensure proper protection and storage of their precious cigars.*

*Cigars cost thousands of ringgit, it almost seems criminal not to spend a corresponding amount on their proper keeping.*

https://www.cgarsltd.co.uk/cigar-library/cigaradvisor.htm


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## Cigary (Oct 19, 2007)

Darn near thought I wrote that post Charles...had the same writing style and if I hadn't seen the ID...woulda thought I was the author for a second. Great information that digs a little deeper into storage and you're 100% correct as far as a diminishing quality over time. I know some of our posts tend to get clinical at times but I want to know as much as I can about this hobby and as much money as I have invested in it I want quality. Sometimes I wish I could just open the humidor...take out a cigar and use a flare to light it and not worry that I might have scorched the tobacco in the process.


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## Joe Sticks (May 31, 2016)

Thanks for your comments everyone. Where I keep my cigars has a concrete floor and usually keeps the temp at a very steady 64-67F. Outside temps are expected to reach 102F soon and I've noticed that the Tupperdor temp has gotten up to 72F (with today's 100F outside temp). I'm lining up my ducks for in case outside temps remain elevated.


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