# Kitty Litter vs Beads



## Staxed (Oct 16, 2011)

Time for another noob question 

I'm trying to determine what media I want for my wineador when I get it next month. Price isn't really an issue for me, my main concern is space.

I know most people around here swear by the kitty litter option, but I'm curious if that's because it works better than beads, or just because it's cheaper?

From what I've read, you need about twice the amount of litter as you do beads, and I'd prefer to be able to fit more cigars in the wineador rather than kitty litter, but only if it's an even match between the two. I don't want to sacrifice quality for more space if that's what I'd be doing.

So, is KL/Beads pretty much the same quality media, or does one outshine the other in actual usage?


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## Guest (Oct 23, 2011)

I was just wondering the same thing myself, this thread was pretty interesting http://www.cigarforums.net/forums/v...exquisicat-crystals-cat-litter-must-read.html

I'm completely sold on the KL idea, I just can't find any out here! Our BX/commissary doesn't carry it. Can I buy a baggy off someone? :hat:


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## Staxed (Oct 16, 2011)

Pale Horse said:


> I was just wondering the same thing myself, this thread was pretty interesting http://www.cigarforums.net/forums/v...exquisicat-crystals-cat-litter-must-read.html
> 
> I'm completely sold on the KL idea, I just can't find any out here! Our BX/commissary doesn't carry it. Can I buy a baggy off someone? :hat:


Have a Petsmart around your area, I'd imagine they'd have it, if not, I'll gladly send you some if I decide to go that route (though it'll be next month before I do, so might be a bit late by then)


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## Richterscale (Jan 8, 2011)

Oh boy.. you're opening up a can of worms here, Daniel lol.

I can only say that I use KL in my coolers and I have been THRILLED with the results. I don't think you can go wrong with either option.

_*Queue TonyBrooklyn!*_


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## Staxed (Oct 16, 2011)

I love worms, worms are delicious, the gummy kind right?


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## Poneill272 (Oct 29, 2010)

You pretty much nailed it in your original post. They are both great options, it's all about how much storage space you want to dedicate to humidification. :juggle:


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## smelvis (Sep 7, 2009)

Ya need to add those HCM? things as well as long as your gonna do this again. Have fun I am using the new things and fazing out beads myself.


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## Richterscale (Jan 8, 2011)

smelvis said:


> Ya need to add those HCM? things as well as long as your gonna do this again. Have fun I am using the new things and fazing out beads myself.


What new things, Dave?


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## Staxed (Oct 16, 2011)

smelvis said:


> Ya need to add those HCM? things as well as long as your gonna do this again. Have fun I am using the new things and fazing out beads myself.


I'm lost now, not sure what HCM is, or what you mean by gonna do this again? lol, maybe I'm just tired and my brain isn't working...


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## smelvis (Sep 7, 2009)

Staxed said:


> I'm lost now, not sure what HCM is, or what you mean by gonna do this again? lol, maybe I'm just tired and my brain isn't working...


They are another choice here's is a link that explains them, sorry didn't mean anything this has just been talked about every couple months but no worries everyone new needs to know bro.

The HCM Beads

HCM Beads


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## piperdown (Jul 19, 2009)

Dave is talking about these

Shilala's Beads


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## notmYJ (Sep 27, 2011)

I was under the impression that the beads and the Exquisite Kitty litter was exactly the same. AFAIK, it is silica based beads that absorb and release moisture at 65-67% RH. 

That being said, I run beads in my 100ct humi. If I had a winador I would use the kitty litter as its cheaper. The kitty litter in question is not the typical clay type, but rather silica beads.


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## Staxed (Oct 16, 2011)

smelvis said:


> They are another choice here's is a link that explains them, sorry didn't mean anything this has just been talked about every couple months but no worries everyone new needs to know bro.
> 
> The HCM Beads
> 
> HCM Beads


Gotcha 

Sorry about bringing it up again, I searched around for a bit and saw lots talking about the different aspects of each type themselves, but didn't notice anything specifically comparing them against each other...might be the sleepiness and not looking deep enough though.

When you say you are using the new things, are you talking about the HCMs, or something different?


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## Danfish98 (Jun 5, 2011)

If you're truly not concerned about cost, go with what Smelvis suggested. Shuckins has also mentioned just switching over to those from Heartfelt beads with superb results. Any time Smelvis and Shuckins are in agreement about something relating to cigars, that's the way to go. The key with any humidification media is making sure you add enough. That's part of why KL is so popular, it's cheap so people can easily add enough to do the job well.


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## Richterscale (Jan 8, 2011)

piperdown said:


> Dave is talking about these
> 
> Shilala's Beads


Hmm interesting, Thanks Eric. I do like the way they package them! Very smart (the stick shapes etc)


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## smelvis (Sep 7, 2009)

Staxed said:


> Gotcha
> 
> Sorry about bringing it up again, I searched around for a bit and saw lots talking about the different aspects of each type themselves, but didn't notice anything specifically comparing them against each other...might be the sleepiness and not looking deep enough though.
> 
> When you say you are using the new things, are you talking about the HCMs, or something different?


Yeah I am switching from the heartfelt to the HCM or Shila as said above They are spendy so I just did three cabinets to start. To early to know but people I trust are now using them solely so I am confident I will like them.

Good Luck


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## Staxed (Oct 16, 2011)

oh wow, just looked at the prices, those are pretty expensive. Wasn't worried about the cost difference between KL and Heartfelts, but those are quite a bit more...great, more thinking to do  lol

Thanks for the points everyone.


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## Dubv23 (Aug 3, 2011)

For what its worth.. I use bead (heartfelt) in my 150ct desktop and Kitty Litter in my 150Quart cooler. It was a matter of space and cost. 

I wanted to use as little space in the desktop so beads were the go to choice and they are performing exactly as advertised. In my cooler im not so much worried about space but the cost to keep it controlled with beads and so i went the KL route and use maybe 2-3 lbs throughout in media bags and im solid at 64%...

I was hesitant in the beginning but i feel like it was the right choice because i saved a few bucks which bought me a few more smokes.


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## Beer Alchemist (Aug 17, 2011)

I found that the kl was a little hard to balance in my 100 humi so just switched to a couple blue tubes of heartfelt. Now it is holding dead on. I'm keeping the kl in case I end up with a cooler though as I think it will work better in a larger space that isn't opened frequently.


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## piperdown (Jul 19, 2009)

Nothing but heartfelt beads in mine. But most of mine are either wooden humi's or tupperdores so we're not talking a large space like a cooler or a winedor. The HF I have keep my humis rock solid. I have most of them at 65%, a few others at 68% and 2 at 60%.
I lean towards the shilia if I get a big cabinet.


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## Staxed (Oct 16, 2011)

piperdown said:


> Nothing but heartfelt beads in mine. But most of mine are either wooden humi's or tupperdores so we're not talking a large space like a cooler or a winedor. The HF I have keep my humis rock solid. I have most of them at 65%, a few others at 68% and 2 at 60%.
> I lean towards the shilia if I get a big cabinet.


yeah, I think I'm leaning towards the shilia at the moment, it's only going to be about $50 more than heartfelts would be from the looks of it, not really that bad in the grand scheme of things.


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## smelvis (Sep 7, 2009)

Staxed said:


> yeah, I think I'm leaning towards the shilia at the moment, it's only going to be about $50 more than heartfelts would be from the looks of it, not really that bad in the grand scheme of things.


I try to not have opinions on these threads but if it helps I have a bunch of large cabinets and I think 8 coolers now and am moving all to them a few at a time, the friend who have the same kind of stash as I do has already done this and make me look like a newbie and he is very happy with them.

Good Luck and nice to meet you! :thumb:


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## jdfutureman (Sep 20, 2010)

I use heartfelt beads in both my humidors but for my long term storage tupperdors I'm running the HCM beads. Both very good options.


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## Staxed (Oct 16, 2011)

Thanks for the responses everyone, I think I am going to go with the HCM option. They all seem like good options, but in just about everything I've read the HCM were easier to maintain and worked excellently. I figure if I start out with them, I won't ever know any better so the price won't really be a deciding factor in the future


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## cw_mi (Aug 13, 2011)

I'm currently setting up my small Edgestar 16. I decided to go the K/L route first because from what I've read it seems to stabilize faster and it is less expensive. It seems like with the beads you have to have a little knowledge of how your wineador reacts and be able to adjust accordingly. Since this is my first wineador and haveing to set it up from scratch I wanted the most simple solution. As I learn more who knows, I might switch to beads.


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## socalocmatt (Dec 22, 2010)

I use HCM in my winador for your exact reason: space. I use one large bag on each drawer and I'm good. I do use KL for the water catch because water + HCM = no bueno. There is a YouTube video about it. As stated, HCM is more expensive but there is very little maintenance every few months. It's pretty much retard proof (which is key for me). 

I use HF and KL in my storador and coolerdor with no issues either. But I have a bit more play room with space. I use KL exclusively in my jars. The space is so small in the jars (20 cigars or so) that I put KL in a puck and sprayed with DW a couple times. I did that last January and am still sitting at 64%-65% rh. 

But for the winador, I'm am very happy with the HCM.


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## Staxed (Oct 16, 2011)

socalocmatt said:


> I use HCM in my winador for your exact reason: space. I use one large bag on each drawer and I'm good. I do use KL for the water catch because water + HCM = no bueno. There is a YouTube video about it. As stated, HCM is more expensive but there is very little maintenance every few months. It's pretty much retard proof (which is key for me).
> 
> I use HF and KL in my storador and coolerdor with no issues either. But I have a bit more play room with space. I use KL exclusively in my jars. The space is so small in the jars (20 cigars or so) that I put KL in a puck and sprayed with DW a couple times. I did that last January and am still sitting at 64%-65% rh.
> 
> But for the winador, I'm am very happy with the HCM.


What size wideador do you have? Their website mentions they recommend two times the amount their calculator shows, from your experience is that required? With the NewAir I plan on getting, that would be four 8oz bags and 1 4oz.

Also, you say you use KL as a 'water catch'. I'm still planning my wineador and everything out as a noob, what do you mean by water catch, don't recall seeing that from all the reading I've done so far?


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## TonyBrooklyn (Jan 28, 2010)

I think everyone knows my answer but just in case!
http://www.cigarforums.net/forums/vb/cigar-accessory-discussion/276966-kitty-litter-set-up.html
Hundreds of pages of testimony!
Read it make up your mind for yourself!
If money is no object and space is at a premuim Beads. Which i never personally understood if money is no object than buy something bigger.
If you want to save a lot of loot and maintain rock solid R/H!
The answer is simple!
KITTY LITTER ROCKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## socalocmatt (Dec 22, 2010)

I have a Avanti 28 bottle. 4 sounds about right. I think I have 5 8oz.

Winders have a water drain. You need to plug the drain. Since the drain is plugged you keep to drain the water somewhere. You will want to drain it into a plate or tupperware with KL in it so the water can reevaporate.


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## Staxed (Oct 16, 2011)

TonyBrooklyn said:


> I think everyone knows my answer but just in case!
> http://www.cigarforums.net/forums/vb/cigar-accessory-discussion/276966-kitty-litter-set-up.html
> Hundreds of pages of testimony!
> Read it make up your mind for yourself!
> ...


It's less of a "money is no object" and more of a "i don't mind spending $50 more if it's that much easier/better to use" 

With my luck, I'll end up with 3 wineadors in the next year, then I'll just try all 3  lol



socalocmatt said:


> I have a Avanti 28 bottle. 4 sounds about right. I think I have 5 8oz.
> 
> Winders have a water drain. You need to plug the drain. Since the drain is plugged you keep to drain the water somewhere. You will want to drain it into a plate or tupperware with KL in it so the water can reevaporate.


gotcha, thanks


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## smelvis (Sep 7, 2009)

Staxed said:


> Thanks for the responses everyone, I think I am going to go with the HCM option. They all seem like good options, but in just about everything I've read the HCM were easier to maintain and worked excellently. I figure if I start out with them, I won't ever know any better so the price won't really be a deciding factor in the future


Very Good call IMHO bro, I/4 of one of my smaller opus x drawers pays for all of the HCM beads I need total that's a main reason I went that way, I have invested/spent tens of Thousands of dollars in cigars you could buy a cheap BMW for what I have spent investing in cigars. Going to pets mart for protection though it works well for many including many friends! I am just not comfortable going that route myself. :usa:

Good luck this is about all I can say! I am saying no one is right or wrong it's like cigars a personal choice! It's nearing the debate stage I am just tired of it, make up your own mind and good luck brother. :dunno:


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## falconman515 (Jul 10, 2011)

They are both excellent options..... but ....... KL = No Contest 

It does the SAME thing the beads do and costs SO MUCH less. 

I Did the beads things and though it worked it gave me a up and down Rh for some reason.... after the KL .... Rock Solid at 63-65% (all depending on area in the cooler from top to bottom).

Save your money for more important things brother... like stick to fill humidor your gonna put the low cost KL in!

Just my opinion but you will find its the opinion of most.


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## smelvis (Sep 7, 2009)

falconman515 said:


> Just my opinion but you will find its the opinion of most.


I would like proof to such a broad statement. I would disagree but don't have any any proof. All the people with lot's to protect that I know personally use beads of one sort or another.

I should clarify if you have to worry about the cost of the beads you probably should be using Kitty Litter. I also have to agree that many of the more vocal crowd do use KL which is why more of these Bead versus KL threads have been closed for some reason they often cause arguments. This one has been pretty darn polite very cool.


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## Mante (Dec 25, 2009)

smelvis said:


> I would like proof to such a broad statement. I would disagree but don't have any any proof. All the people with lot's to protect that I know personally use beads of one sort or another.
> 
> I should clarify if you have to worry about the cost of the beads you probably should be using Kitty Litter. I also have to agree that many of the more vocal crowd do use KL which is why more of these Bead versus KL threads have been closed for some reason they often cause arguments. This one has been pretty darn polite very cool.


I agree a very broad statement & I would say slightly erroneous. Everyone I know uses HCM or HF beads but that in no way allows me to conclude it is what "most" people use.

Like Dave stated earlier, use whichever RH maintenance works for you & you are comfortable with. Given the right treatment & attention they all work. More importantly, enjoy your smokes. :rockon:


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## jjjoseph (Sep 10, 2011)

falconman515 said:


> They are both excellent options..... but ....... KL = No Contest
> 
> It does the SAME thing the beads do and costs SO MUCH less.
> 
> ...


^^ I've just started doing this and have only used kitty litter so far for my cooler. I have a 4lb bag and the amount I used isn't even noticeable. I just ripped off the top part of an empty box and filled it up. So far so good and at ~$1/lb? Don't see myself using anything else.

I'd say try it out and if it works out for you, GREAT! If not, well your only down a couple dollars and are stuck with a bag full of kitty litter lol. So really there is nothing to lose.


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## gibson_es (Jan 23, 2010)

Dang it!


Now i gotta pass the heartfelt on to my dad and get te hcm.


Darn you smelvis!!!!! Lol

They sound great. I am pretty happy with my beads, but ignorance is bliss. I wonder how much happier i could he with these hcm beads. 


I respect tony amd his opinions, as well as a lot of other brothers on here. but im not big on the KL thing. If i had coolers and large cabinets full of sticks, maybe. But for three medium sized humis and a couple tupperadors, im not diggin the KL. But you never know what the future holds.


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## smelvis (Sep 7, 2009)

Blake I got mine in a group buy maybe Ron at Cigar Solutions would do one if enough people were interested I could use a few pounds more. Hope all is well brother!


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## Guest (Oct 24, 2011)

What about ConservaGel? ConservaGel - patented humidification for your priceless collectibles

It seems to be a much less expensive alternative


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## Staxed (Oct 16, 2011)

Pale Horse said:


> What about ConservaGel? ConservaGel - patented humidification for your priceless collectibles
> 
> It seems to be a much less expensive alternative


I was under the impression that ConservaGel is just another name for the Humidity Beads like Heartfelt?


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## asmartbull (Aug 16, 2009)

Staxed said:


> I was under the impression that ConservaGel is just another name for the Humidity Beads like Heartfelt?


Similar, yes, But I an not sure that they can go as low as 60rh


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## Herf N Turf (Dec 31, 2008)

Staxed said:


> Time for another noob question
> 
> I'm trying to determine what media I want for my wineador when I get it next month. Price isn't really an issue for me, my main concern is space.
> 
> ...


Okay, I'll throw my tuppence in here and see where it lands.

First, the reason everyone pulls up a chair and orders an extra large popcorn when you mention beads and cat litter is because for some reason which completely alludes me, there seems to be a ubiquitous passion for cat litter and it's proponents take it very personally. Thankfully, little of this zealous fervor has arisen here. Maybe we've entered a new age :dunno:

Anyway, in effect, Shilala beads, HF beads and cat litter work the same. They ALL work and are all equally effective at maintaining proper RH. The differences appear in how long they work and how much you need.

Cat litter: Cat litter made from low density (LD) silica gel is made from the same substance as heartfelt beads, conservagel and many many other products, originally implemented by museums for the purpose of conservation. They have a native moisture content of ~50% and if left to their own devices, effectively regulate the closed environment to this point. By adding mineral salts, the set-point of silica gel can be altered, which is what Heartfelt do. They add salts to achieve extremely accurate set-points of 60-70%. Cat litter is unregulated. There are no mineral salts added, so the user is left to determine, through trial and error, how much water is required to achieve the desired set-point. Once discovered, cat litter works every bit as well as beads, with just a little more attention to maintenance and a very accurately calibrated hygrometer. Additionally, being LD gel, ~3-5x more media is required to service a given volume. This is the space consideration.

Heartfelt Humidity beads: are regulated via covalently bound mineral salts and maintain a specific set-point desired by the user. They are HD silica gel and therefore hold thousands of times their weight in water and vastly more, by volume, than LD gels. Since the set-point of beads is more accurate than anything but a certified hygrometer (laboratory calibrated to desired set-point) there's no need for a hygrometer when using beads. Many long-term users of beads either use no hygrometer, or calibrate their hygrometers to the beads, for greater accuracy. Since beads are HD gel, far less is required, by volume, than cat litter.

HCM beads: Shiliala is by far the biggest, most successful proponent of HCM. The advantage is that they are the lowest maintenance product currently available. There's no monitoring and no frequent charging. They just regulate and regulate accurately, for amazing periods of time. The reason they are so expensive is two-fold. First, they are difficult, tedious and somewhat dangerous to produce. HCM is by nature, relatively volatile and therefore great care must be taken in both manufacture and maintenance. However, once up and running, they're great. The other reason for their cost is simple supply and demand. Shilala is a small, cottage operation and he's got to pay his bills. Not to say he doesn't offer a good value, all things considered, but there's no escaping that his beads are by far the premium media in terms of cost.

Personally, I've used HF beads for years with perfect results. They do exactly what they say they'll do and do it at a price I can easily justify. If I were to start all over again, I might seriously consider Shilala beads. If I had tons of extra space in several coolers and was looking for the most cost effective method, I'd consider cat litter and resign myself to the additional maintenance.

Hope this helps.


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## gibson_es (Jan 23, 2010)

I dont know bout the OP. But i learned sumpin there! 

I have been using HF for a year or so, and not use a hygro anymore. Havent for most of the year. 




Thanks smelvis for our info also. And im doing good, thanks. You?


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## Staxed (Oct 16, 2011)

That was beyond helpful Don, thanks for the very in depth explanation between all of them!


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## TonyBrooklyn (Jan 28, 2010)

Herf N Turf said:


> Okay, I'll throw my tuppence in here and see where it lands.
> 
> First, the reason everyone pulls up a chair and orders an extra large popcorn when you mention beads and cat litter is because for some reason which completely alludes me, there seems to be a ubiquitous passion for cat litter and it's proponents take it very personally. Thankfully, little of this zealous fervor has arisen here. Maybe we've entered a new age :dunno:
> 
> ...


That was a wonderful explanation on a controversial subject. Zealous you say why never we Kitty Litter folk have our own thread to talk litter. Thanks to the over zealous hatred of litter, we have by the graciousness of Puff been able to have our own little corner. And you only need about twice as much litter as beads not 3 - 5 times. And i never bought into the whole don't need a Hygrometer thing that's like taking your temperature by touching your forehead. Other than that i agree with you findings completely! You know even if i agreed with you 100% i could never admit it in public!:gossip::laugh::boink::hug::yo:


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## Fuzzy (Jun 19, 2011)

Herf N Turf said:


> Okay, I'll throw my tuppence in here and see where it lands.
> 
> Hope this helps.


Thanks for the info, I finally see the light Don.

Being as my humble stash is mostly everyday yard cigars, and I live in a high humidity, I chose dry kitty litter. Some of you Puffers have stashes that would not fit in my motor home, and are definitely worth more, too!


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## smelvis (Sep 7, 2009)

Thanks Don
All nice and separated in plain words, well done!

Dave


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## TonyBrooklyn (Jan 28, 2010)

Fuzzy said:


> Thanks for the info, I finally see the light Don.
> 
> Being as my humble stash is mostly everyday yard cigars, and I live in a high humidity, I chose dry kitty litter. Some of you Puffers have stashes that would not fit in my motor home, and are definitely worth more, too!


I think you missed the boat!
I have a huge stash and trust Kitty Litter!
It has nothing to do with worth of stash! As i trust mine and many great BOTL trust theirs! As i have told the story many times in the Kitty Litter thread! I was running 5 150 Qt Marine coolers loaded with Cuban Cigars. Used beads refused to admit that something my cat pooped in would work! Long story short met a great BOTL. Still my friend to this day. He Had 3 [3000] count stand up humidors. Some of the finest Cuban cigars i have ever seen. The smell so intoxicating make your Johnson stand up and take notice. His media of choice KITTY LITTER all he asked for converting my a devote atheist to Kitty Litter anyways. Is that i pay it forward. So if you really want to hear the real deal the thread is here!
http://www.cigarforums.net/forums/vb/cigar-accessory-discussion/276966-kitty-litter-set-up.html


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## Staxed (Oct 16, 2011)

TonyBrooklyn said:


> something my cat pooped in would work!


I would have at least bought non-used


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## TonyBrooklyn (Jan 28, 2010)

Staxed said:


> I would have at least bought non-used


Well maybe that's why you are having such a hard time picking out your hydrating media! Fresh always works best!!!!!!!!!!!!!:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:


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## Staxed (Oct 16, 2011)

TonyBrooklyn said:


> Well maybe that's why you are having such a hard time picking out your hydrating media! Fresh always works best!!!!!!!!!!!!!:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:


One way to get the plastic smell out of a new tupper/cooloer/wineador


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## cw_mi (Aug 13, 2011)

Was sold on K/L for my wineador in progress... then after reading Don's very informative post I'm swaying over to the bead thing... I've got some time to figure this out though , I've got a few weeks til my drawers come in then I'll have to make a decision then.


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## Herf N Turf (Dec 31, 2008)

Guys,

We've had to do a little house keeping / editing, to keep this thread on track.

There's no doubt, it's a good one and very worthy of discussion. However, please keep in mind that, in the past, such discussions have invariably descended into utter chaos, so this one is closely monitored and we're determined to keep it on topic. 

We're REALLY hoping that intelligent discussions of multiple humidification media can occur without incident, but this can only happen if ALL OF YOU remain civil and keep the discussion STRICTLY topical. 

Thanks for your thoughtful consideration and support,

The Mod Team


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## getkennard (Oct 7, 2010)

Pale Horse said:


> I was just wondering the same thing myself, this thread was pretty interesting http://www.cigarforums.net/forums/v...exquisicat-crystals-cat-litter-must-read.html
> 
> I'm completely sold on the KL idea, I just can't find any out here! Our BX/commissary doesn't carry it. Can I buy a baggy off someone? :hat:


I had the same trouble, ended up ordering online from petsmart. Worked out pretty cheap even with shipping. Throw in a few puppy toys and pretend like the order was all about the dog and not your cigars.


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## cw_mi (Aug 13, 2011)

Don,
I understand you have to keep things on track but this thread has been really informative to me, and I'm sure others. Thanks for keeping it open.


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## CigarNut (Nov 22, 2009)

Herf N Turf said:


> ...HCM beads: Shiliala is by far the biggest, most successful proponent of HCM. The advantage is that they are the lowest maintenance product currently available. There's no monitoring and no frequent charging. They just regulate and regulate accurately, for amazing periods of time. The reason they are so expensive is two-fold. First, they are difficult, tedious and *somewhat dangerous to produce*. *HCM is by nature, relatively volatile and therefore great care must be taken in both manufacture and maintenance*. However, once up and running, they're great. The other reason for their cost is simple supply and demand. Shilala is a small, cottage operation and he's got to pay his bills. Not to say he doesn't offer a good value, all things considered, but there's no escaping that his beads are by far the premium media in terms of cost...


Thanks for the great post. I would like to make a correction regarding the statements in bold quoted above. HCM beads are not dangerous to produce in any way that I am aware of. The material is not volatile. The material is slica based, but HCM Beads are to other silica-based beads as balsa wood is to oak. Both are wood, but they have different properties.

The video clips that lead people to believe that HCM beads are dangerous or volatile show water being poured directly on to HCM beads. The friction caused by the water racing through the 1000's of tiny pores in the individual beads generates a lot of heat (and steam). While spectacular to look at, the heat cannot cause a fire. It can get hot enough to melt some light plastics, and with a large quantity of beads the heat might be able to burn your skin. This kind of heat takes a lot of water and a lot of beads.

We recommend that you never put HCM beads in direct contact with water; you introduce moisture to HCM beads indirectly by placing them in a sealed container with a water source such as a sponge soaked with distilled water.

You would not want to accidentally use HCM beads as kitty litter...

HCM beads are a good product but obviously "one size does not fit all". Everyone needs to make their own choices based on their individual requirements.

Sorry for the long post; I just wanted to make sure people understand HCM beads a little better.


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## Staxed (Oct 16, 2011)

CigarNut said:


> Thanks for the great post. I would like to make a correction regarding the statements in bold quoted above. HCM beads are not dangerous to produce in any way that I am aware of. The material is not volatile. The material is slica based, but HCM Beads are to other silica-based beads as balsa wood is to oak. Both are wood, but they have different properties.
> 
> The video clips that lead people to believe that HCM beads are dangerous or volatile show water being poured directly on to HCM beads. The friction caused by the water racing through the 1000's of tiny pores in the individual beads generates a lot of heat (and steam). While spectacular to look at, the heat cannot cause a fire. It can get hot enough to melt some light plastics, and with a large quantity of beads the heat might be able to burn your skin. This kind of heat takes a lot of water and a lot of beads.
> 
> ...


That you very much for that post. And just to make sure, I'm going to assume you are Michael from hcmbeads.com/shilalabeads.com?

I'd give you some RG, but alas I have to wait another 24 hours in order to do so. Very informative post, and I promise...I'll try not to bathe in them any time soon  lol


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## CigarNut (Nov 22, 2009)

Staxed said:


> That you very much for that post. And just to make sure, I'm going to assume you are Michael from hcmbeads.com/shilalabeads.com?...


That is correct!


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## Mante (Dec 25, 2009)

CigarNut said:


> Thanks for the great post. I would like to make a correction regarding the statements in bold quoted above. HCM beads are not dangerous to produce in any way that I am aware of. The material is not volatile. The material is slica based, but HCM Beads are to other silica-based beads as balsa wood is to oak. Both are wood, but they have different properties.
> 
> The video clips that lead people to believe that HCM beads are dangerous or volatile show water being poured directly on to HCM beads. The friction caused by the water racing through the 1000's of tiny pores in the individual beads generates a lot of heat (and steam). While spectacular to look at, the heat cannot cause a fire. It can get hot enough to melt some light plastics, and with a large quantity of beads the heat might be able to burn your skin. This kind of heat takes a lot of water and a lot of beads.
> 
> ...


Legendary! Thank you for weighing in with relevant knowledge good Sir. I am LMAO at the reference in bold.


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## Tritones (Jun 23, 2010)

CigarNut said:


> You would not want to accidentally use HCM beads as kitty litter...


Thanks for the informative post about what is undoubtedly an excellent product.

However, I would point out that *deliberately* using HCM beads as kitty litter is probably not a good idea, either ... :biggrin:

On the other hand - I might have a use for it outside at night in certain areas of the yard frequented by stray cats ... :mischief:


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## TonyBrooklyn (Jan 28, 2010)

Tritones said:


> Thanks for the informative post about what is undoubtedly an excellent product.
> 
> However, I would point out that *deliberately* using HCM beads as kitty litter is probably not a good idea, either ... :biggrin:
> 
> On the other hand - I might have a use for it outside at night in certain areas of the yard frequented by stray cats ... :mischief:


:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:
:mrgreen::mrgreen::mrgreen::mrgreen::mrgreen:


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## jheiliger (May 12, 2012)

I'm investigating humi media, and this thread is amazing! 

I thought it deserved resurection... Thanks for everyone's input here! Super helpful!


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## Herf N Turf (Dec 31, 2008)

It's never bad to top and old, but useful thread. Indeed, I think the information here has helped a lot of brothers.

One thing I would like to add is that I was perhaps a little dramatic in using the term "volatile", as Michael pointed out. I apologize if anyone thought they could blow themselves up with HCM beads. What I was referring to was the fact that back when HCM were first introduced, people did mistreat them, which resulted in a few uncomfortable if mild burns. If misused, they do give off a substantial amount of heat and I was simply making the point that this should be avoided. NEVER add water directly to HCM beads.


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## TonyBrooklyn (Jan 28, 2010)

Nah i think "volatile" is spot on .


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## CigarNut (Nov 22, 2009)

TonyBrooklyn said:


> Nah i think "volatile" is spot on .


This is video is a little misleading -- all you are seeing is steam from the heat generated by the friction of the water racing through the pores in the beads. It is not a chemical reaction. You would not get this degree of reaction from the smaller amounts in the bags or tubes that I sell.


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## smelvis (Sep 7, 2009)

Beads without a seconds thought.


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## Herf N Turf (Dec 31, 2008)

CigarNut said:


> This is video is a little misleading -- all you are seeing is steam from the heat generated by the friction of the water racing through the pores in the beads. It is not a chemical reaction. You would not get this degree of reaction from the smaller amounts in the bags or tubes that I sell.


Again, I don't want to be misleading here. I think Michael is somewhat on the defensive, but for no real reason. Everything he's stated is absolutely correct. HCM beads work brilliantly. Of this, there can be no doubt.

Literally everything has it's little idiosyncracies and the singular one with HCM is that you just don't dowse them with water.

What's misleading about that video is that it's a LOT of HCM and a LOT of water. Passively recharging them (as recommended), or even gently misting them (not recommended) will NOT produce such a reaction.

Anyone who's fallen off a water ski at high speed well knows that even water can become frictious. With as dense and hygroscopic as HCM are, that amount of friction is GOING to create heat. As with anything, use them correctly in order to harvest the correct results.

Funny, I was just watching a few youtube videos on seasoning and some guy had a baggy full of Heartfelt beads, literally swimming in water. He was complaining that he couldn't get his humidity up and needed to add more beads. I'm constantly flummoxed by how stupidity can make even the simplest of matters so complicated...


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## Cigar Noob (May 22, 2011)

Looking for a clarification here... I thought the bead vs KL debate was between 2 essentially identical items, Heartfeld silica beads and KL silica beads. But with the HCM stuff different which one are people referring to when they say "beads", are they referring to Heartfelt AND HCM or only one of those. I'm confused a bit so if someone can just define some terms for me, it would help out.


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## CigarNut (Nov 22, 2009)

Herf N Turf said:


> Again, I don't want to be misleading here. I* think Michael is somewhat on the defensive*, but for no real reason.


I am sorry and you are right -- I am a little defensive about that video.

All the emails and comments I receive about the "dangers of HCM beads" have made me a little defensive.

I appreciate your clarification and your positive comments!

Thanks!


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## kra961 (May 16, 2012)

jheiliger said:


> I'm investigating humi media, and this thread is amazing!
> 
> I thought it deserved resurection... Thanks for everyone's input here! Super helpful!


Indeed great information, I would have gone the Bead route but when I went to order the shop was closed for vacation? (Wouldn't mind taking one of those myself) So instead I went with KL as the alternative medium. I think it's safe to safe that both work just fine, I'm very happy with KL but I would imagine I would have been just as happy with my first choice, the bead's. Guess it boils down to which you are more comfortable with and how much money you want to throw at a solution. Just an aside I wouldn't have believed that KL would actually work without having taken the dive myself.


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## Mante (Dec 25, 2009)

CigarNut said:


> This is video is a little misleading -- all you are seeing is steam from the heat generated by the friction of the water racing through the pores in the beads. It is not a chemical reaction. You would not get this degree of reaction from the smaller amounts in the bags or tubes that I sell.


More than a "little" misleading methinks considering every user is told not to add water directly to the HCM product. The guy that made that video is an asshat with a grudge, pure & simple. :thumb:


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## asmartbull (Aug 16, 2009)

I knew it was to good to be true,,,,but since this is again "alive"
I will just say.
If all cost the same, I would own HCM. I also like 60rh and frankly HF and KL don't
like to go that low.
If you have several coolers with lbs of media required, it is hard to ignore the benefits of KL
Since the amount of KL is twice HF , HF gets the call in humidor.

They all have a place.


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## Mante (Dec 25, 2009)

asmartbull said:


> They all have a place.


Indeed Al & everyone should use what suits them, without prejudice to other's choices. 

LOL a little as I too sighed when I saw this thread revived.


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## Tritones (Jun 23, 2010)

Good point, Jonathan. Some people do use the term "beads" generically to mean HCM as well as Heartfelt or (Conservagel) media. I think most of those who _use_ HCM call them by that name.

It would probably be a good practice for us all to be more specific in discussions about humidification media.


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## Mante (Dec 25, 2009)

Tritones said:


> Good point, Jonathan. Some people do use the term "beads" generically to mean HCM as well as Heartfelt or (Conservagel) media. I think most of those who _use_ HCM call them by that name.
> 
> It would probably be a good practice for us all to be more specific in discussions about humidification media.


Oh OK mister sensical (sp?) . This discussion is about Heartfelt Beads versus Cat Litter Medium. Geez! LOL. 

Love ya Mike but that as well would be stating the obvious.

Specific? Cat litter is for cats. HF beads are for HeartFelt feelings about your humidor. HCM beads lead you to believe that you are Heart Conditioned but Mindful. :mischief:


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## Tritones (Jun 23, 2010)

Ah, but the zen of KL is that it only becomes kitty litter the moment a kitty litters in it. As mine has never even SEEN a cat, it is humidification media.

As long as we're stating the obvious, when has the actual topic of a given thread EVER influenced my replies more than slightly and incidentally?


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## Mante (Dec 25, 2009)

The moment you enter a thread there is a "Tritonism Effect". Yes, it is tangible! I can feel it like the light side of a dark side of the burnt toast. You are there lurking like the wrong side of fate which has yet to turn my life upside down. I thank you for it. 

Here is a question: Do you feel you should be responsible for my 10K post?


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## jheiliger (May 12, 2012)

asmartbull said:


> I knew it was to good to be true,,,,but since this is again "alive"





Tashaz said:


> LOL a little as I too sighed when I saw this thread revived.


Sorry guys... I didn't realize this was a proverbial pile of "HCM beads" in the pot of water that is PUFF!!

I did a site specific google search because I was researching media, and I think this thread is a GREAT explanation of what's available and the benefits/downfalls of each type!

It's a super helpful resource for all us newbs that are just getting our feet wet...

Again... thanks to the contributors! I wish I could RG all of you!


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## Tritones (Jun 23, 2010)

Ooooo - sorry, I was offline!

Yes, I am perfectly willing to take the blame for your 10,000th post. Certainly over the last two years there has been a synergism between the "Tritonism Effect" and the "Dropbear Factor." Many a swerving, careening, aimlessly accelerating thread has shown the influence of this Upover/Downunder coalescence of calamity. Therefore, I am proud, honored, and more than a little bit afraid to be The One.:tease:eep::clock::behindsofa:ainkiller::yield::second:


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