# different RyJ labels - are they both legit?



## Raol (Aug 31, 2007)

View attachment 3649

I was just gifted the RyJ on the left and notice the difference from what I have in my humi,...they are both #2's? 
Is this a new label?


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## Matt257 (Jan 3, 2008)

I know that the one on the right is legit. I have a few bands exactly the same. And counterfeit Cubans arent an issue in the UK. Ive never seen a band like that on the left. So I would say not legit. But I could be wrong


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## Daver3283 (Jul 8, 2007)

Ralph It looks like the 1875 one is not legit. The domincan RyJ makes an 1875 but they don't claim to be from Havana. Also, according to Min Ron Nee's book, the RyJ brand started around 1850's in Cuba and was officially registered in 1873 so the 1875 date doesn't have any signifigance.


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## greycliff (Jan 6, 2008)

I've subtle differences in my No. 2's as well. The ones a friend brought back from Cuba has the logo stamped onto the cedar wrapper while the ones you can buy in Canada have no cedar wrapper stamp. 

I think you should do a taste test between the two and see which one comes out on top.


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## smokinj (Jan 16, 2008)

matt257 said:


> I know that the one on the right is legit. I have a few bands exactly the same. And counterfeit Cubans arent an issue in the UK. Ive never seen a band like that on the left. So I would say not legit. But I could be wrong


I'm w/ Mathew on this one.....


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## Bigfoot (Jun 25, 2007)

the one on the right is real, the new R&J bands. The one on the left is fake. There is not one band in cuba that says "Habana cuba" All cuban bands say "Habana"

Left is very fake, not even a good rip off fake...LOL


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## Matt257 (Jan 3, 2008)

Bigfoot said:


> the one on the right is real, the new R&J bands. The one on the left is fake. There is not one band in cuba that says "Habana cuba" All cuban bands say "Habana"
> 
> Left is very fake, not even a good rip off fake...LOL


The Cuban Cohiba says Habana,Cuba on the band.


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## Raol (Aug 31, 2007)

*additional photos*

these photos show the high degree of detail of the band on the cigar in question.


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## Matt257 (Jan 3, 2008)

Raol said:


> these photos show the high degree of detail of the band on the left.


I have to say I really do think its fake. I hope im wrong. But atleast it was gifted and you didnt pay for it


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## Ceedee (Jun 2, 2006)

The signature tell is the bunching at the foot. What do the feet look like?

CD


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## Bigfoot (Jun 25, 2007)

you are right matt, forgot about cohiba...LOL but that is a fake stick, no R&J band has ever had that.

Bigfoot


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## Matt257 (Jan 3, 2008)

Bigfoot said:


> you are right matt, forgot about cohiba...LOL but that is a fake stick, no R&J band has ever had that.
> 
> Bigfoot


:lol: How can you forget about Cohiba :brick: They are my favorite ISOM's :biggrin:


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## Jonjonmacky (Oct 30, 2007)

if both smoke awesome who cares lol.


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## Matt257 (Jan 3, 2008)

Jonjonmacky said:


> if both smoke awesome who cares lol.


Agreed :biggrin:


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## Raol (Aug 31, 2007)

*picture of the foot*

Great idea CD, here is the pic of the foot.
cigar in question on left


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## Matt257 (Jan 3, 2008)

Raol said:


> Great idea CD, here is the pic of the foot


Im guessing the one on the left is the cigar in question. If so, I would 100% say fake.


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## Ceedee (Jun 2, 2006)

Yeah, stems and the loose circular bunching are a tip-off. The left one looks very fake. 

Check out Vitolas.net. Moki from various boards has this site and one section has info on fake ISOM's, here:

Vitolas.net

The guide picture there shows how cuban cigars are rolled vs. fakes. A good method to check. OF course, some fakes are better than others...

CD


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## Raol (Aug 31, 2007)

Jonjonmacky said:


> if both smoke awesome who cares lol.


Quite frankly Scarlet,... I don't give a damn.
I may or may not smoke it.
Maybe I'll just keep it as a good example of a counterfeit.


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## Raol (Aug 31, 2007)

You guys are amazing,...shortly after receiving this cigar I am able receive professional feed-back on it's authenticy.
That just blows me away.
Thanks everybody.


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## Matt257 (Jan 3, 2008)

Glad we could help ( If i did help :lol Sorry its a fake, but oh well, smoke it. Just because its a fake, doesnt make it a bad cigar!!


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## cybervee-cl (Oct 24, 2007)

Hey - I'm just amazed that someone knows how to take nice clear closeup pictures!


:roflmao:


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## Raol (Aug 31, 2007)

cybervee said:


> Hey - I'm just amazed that someone knows how to take nice clear closeup pictures!
> QUOTE]
> 
> Thanks for the complement cybervee.
> ...


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## Ceedee (Jun 2, 2006)

Raol said:


> You guys are amazing,...shortly after receiving this cigar I am able receive professional feed-back on it's authenticy.
> That just blows me away.
> Thanks everybody.


Hey, that's what it's all about Ralph! Sorry you got a fake.

CD


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## Raol (Aug 31, 2007)

Yeah, no big deal. 
Not like I had somebody purchase a couple of boxes of these for me from Cuba.
Now that would be a real bummer....


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## kevink868 (Sep 21, 2007)

Looks like the current band to me, guys.

http://www.cigaraficionado.com/Cigar/CA_Top_25/Top_25_Display/0,4320,2006_4,00.html

Anyway, I wouldn't be at all surprised if they were both the real McCoy, Raol.


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## Matt257 (Jan 3, 2008)

kevink868 said:


> Looks like the current band to me, guys.
> 
> http://www.cigaraficionado.com/Cigar/CA_Top_25/Top_25_Display/0,4320,2006_4,00.html
> 
> Anyway, I wouldn't be at all surprised if they were both the real McCoy, Raol.


Hmmmm, Kevin is right. But the construction still doesnt look like a legit RyJ


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## Daver3283 (Jul 8, 2007)

Ralph, I went through all my bands, this is from the 2007 limited edicion RyJ pyramide. Looks identical to your band and I know it is legit


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## Ceedee (Jun 2, 2006)

Actually, that top/main band is only on the cuban limitada versions AFAIK. It is common practice between counterfeiters to copy a band version from a limited series either by mistake to to trick people into thinking the band is real, on purpose. It looks like a copy to me (albeit a decent one) but the wrong band style for that Vitola. I could be wrong, however. I am certainly NOT the last word on fake ISOM's. However, the poor bunching and large stems really seem to me to scream fake. Smoking it would be one good way to find out (that or taking it apart to view it's contents) if you were so bold... My 2

CD


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## Ceedee (Jun 2, 2006)

In fact, look at the noticeable differences between your pic Dave and the one that Ralph posted. The ink, the gold accents are different as is the font used. I would say that this actually "calls" this one for me now...


Dave's limitada:



Ralphs:


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## foolwithnohair (Jan 14, 2008)

Daver3283 said:


> Ralph, I went through all my bands, this is from the 2007 limited edicion RyJ pyramide. Looks identical to your band and I know it is legit


Although identical at first glance, the fonts are different between the two bands - particularly noticeable on the "7" and the "5." The "A" in JULIETA also lines up differently with the "5." The quality of the gold flake is different - it is worn off on Raol's.


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## Matt257 (Jan 3, 2008)

The wording on Daves is in gold and on Ralphs it is white. Or is that just me? :lol:


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## Maduro PiPs (Jul 5, 2007)

I'm afraid most of you are wrong including the mighty Bigfoot if you are basing this on the band. That is the NEW RyJ band....I will be posting a pic. The construction however is questionable....but then again..I have seen some cubans that were underfilled a bit and smoked great.


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## kevink868 (Sep 21, 2007)

Maduro PiPs said:


> I'm afraid most of you are wrong including the mighty Bigfoot if you are basing this on the band. That is the NEW RyJ band....I will be posting a pic. The construction however is questionable....but then again..I have seen some cubans that were underfilled a bit and smoked great.


Agreed. Based solely on the band, the stogie in question appears to pretty well match the Short Churchill pictured in CA, including the white type.


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## Ceedee (Jun 2, 2006)

I would definitely defer to more knowledgeable insights...

CD


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## Maduro PiPs (Jul 5, 2007)

look at my short churchill....


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## Maduro PiPs (Jul 5, 2007)

another view


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## Maduro PiPs (Jul 5, 2007)

Ceedee said:


> In fact, look at the noticeable differences between your pic Dave and the one that Ralph posted. The ink, the gold accents are different as is the font used. I would say that this actually "calls" this one for me now...
> 
> Dave's limitada:
> 
> Ralphs:


lol..now I think Dave's is in question! lol Look at mine...


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## Raol (Aug 31, 2007)

Thanks for the pic Maduro,....
It would appear that the band in question is verrrrrrrrry similar to the band on the Churchill


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## Ceedee (Jun 2, 2006)

This is very interesting... Mario, do you know if RyJ are double-banding all their sticks now? Reason I ask is that I heard that the double-banded sticks came with the new logo or band. 

An other interesting tack to take, is that there are numerous cases where counterfeiters take/get REAL bands and then put them on fake sticks.

Could you post a pic of the foot of that short churchill?

CD


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## foolwithnohair (Jan 14, 2008)

Now I'm really curious. I'm going to have to go to a couple local B&M's tomorrow and see. The new stock arrived recently - the RyJ Mille Fleur is listed as new - the Mille Fleur is the same size as as the No. 2, and could be machine filler.


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## JoeyBear (Jul 31, 2007)

Maduro PiPs said:


> look at my short churchill....


This one is waayyyy too easy :biggrin: I gotta pass on this one.


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## Maduro PiPs (Jul 5, 2007)

JoeyBear said:


> This one is waayyyy too easy :biggrin: I gotta pass on this one.


HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAH


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## Maduro PiPs (Jul 5, 2007)

Ceedee said:


> This is very interesting... Mario, do you know if RyJ are double-banding all their sticks now? Reason I ask is that I heard that the double-banded sticks came with the new logo or band.
> 
> An other interesting tack to take, is that there are numerous cases where counterfeiters take/get REAL bands and then put them on fake sticks.
> 
> ...


The only double-banded RyJ's I know of are the Short Churches....except any EL's or Regional releases...I will post that foot pic in a bit.


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## Maduro PiPs (Jul 5, 2007)

Ceedee said:


> An other interesting tack to take, is that there are numerous cases where counterfeiters take/get REAL bands and then put them on fake sticks.
> 
> Could you post a pic of the foot of that short churchill?
> 
> CD


This is VERY TRUE as well...thats why I only buy full boxes....


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## foolwithnohair (Jan 14, 2008)

Maduro PiPs said:


> This is VERY TRUE as well...thats why I only buy full boxes....


FYI, the only band/box/box sticker/box seal/inside sheets/whatever that isn't available here are importers' holographic box seals and, for some reason, the ribbons used in cabs. Everything else is usually available as either reproduction or original-new or original-used. The claim is that this stuff is sold to "collectors." I don't know why a collector would want to buy 25 bands at a time, though. I sent a letter a while ago to the Canadian importer asking how these things can be sold openly - haven't heard back from them yet.

Churchills might be double-banded as well - or at least I've seen a second band like that for sale. :imconfused:


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## tx_tuff (Jun 16, 2007)

Ok if you ask me I would say the one on the right is a fake four sure. It has the same band as the new Short Churchill but are they using that band on all new cigars? I guess that is the question for that cigar.

The one on the right, there is just no way. The gold and red ink is so sloppy!!
Look here http://www.cigaraficionado.com/Cigar/CA_Counterfeits/Genuine_Page/0,3392,22,00.html The gold is crisp, thin and only on the dots etc.... On the band you have the pic of the gold is way to thick, look at where the coin and dots get close to each other on the left side of the band, and right above the R, O, and M the red runs into the dots!

Just my $.02


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## tx_tuff (Jun 16, 2007)

Ok I just went and looked at a ton og R&Js at online stores and the only one I can find with the new band is the Short Churchill


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## jam (Dec 29, 2007)

Bigfoot said:


> the one on the right is real, the new R&J bands. The one on the left is fake. There is not one band in cuba that says "Habana cuba" All cuban bands say "Habana"
> 
> Left is very fake, not even a good rip off fake...LOL


I have to agree with Bigfoot


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