# So my B&M says a Vinotemp is a bad idea????



## blckthree (Jan 19, 2008)

So I am in visiting my local B&M and discussing humidors, storing cigars, Vinotemps, Coolerdors, etc. He gives me his opinions which vary greatly from what I have seen here.

Coolerdors, he says they will deep a cigar fresh, but they won't age a cigar because you cant get enough Spanish Cedar in them and not to keep them in there for longer than 3 months. 

Vinotemps, he says they are bad for cigars because you cant get the temperature high enough, they stay too cold for a cigar to season. Also the same theory about not being able to get enough Spanish Cedar in one to properly age a cigar. 

He tells me the only good way to store a cigar is in a cedar lined humidor, the desktop variety so the cigar is surrounded by wood and has no plastic in there.

I try to explain I was looking for an alternative which would allow me to store whole boxes of cigars and that wouldn't do it. 

To that his recommendation is a walk in humidor, which is a great idea, if I had lots of money, which I don't. 

So, is he blowing smoke up my a$$ and telling me this because if I am buying whole boxes of cigars, I am not going to be in his store buying singles, or what's the deal with his thoughts? The guy has always treated me right when I am there, always helpful, I trusted his opinions, but I have my doubts on these opinions. 

Mike


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## hardcz (Aug 1, 2007)

I don't know enough to give you the right answer...though keep in mind, what people don't know will lead them to give mis information, also it's in his best interest to keep you buying humidors from him. Not saying he's a bad guy and wrong, just some things to keep on the back burner.


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## pnoon (Jun 8, 2005)

blckthree said:


> So I am in visiting my local B&M and discussing humidors, storing cigars, Vinotemps, Coolerdors, etc. He gives me his opinions which vary greatly from what I have seen here.
> 
> Coolerdors, he says they will deep a cigar fresh, but they won't age a cigar because you cant get enough Spanish Cedar in them and not to keep them in there for longer than 3 months.
> 
> ...


I certainly can't speak to his motivation but he is most certainly "blowing smoke up your a$$"
Cigars will age in a Vino or cooler. Maybe marginally slower but not enough to notice.
:2


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## clampdown (Feb 7, 2006)

I keep some singles in my Daniel Marshall and my boxes in a large cooler and i have sen no difference with them. Some have been in there for a few years. Remember, he probably doesnt sell coolers or vino's so he is probably looking for some humidor business. Good luck, and tell us what you decide to do.


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## oldforge (Apr 30, 2008)

blckthree said:


> He tells me the only good way to store a cigar is in a cedar lined humidor, the desktop variety so the cigar is surrounded by wood and has no plastic in there.
> Mike


I wouldn't do business with the guy. He is lying to you.

I have been storing my smokes in boxes in coolerdors and tupperdors for years and they have aged magnificently.

I have some other smokes in humidors and they have done fine as well.


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## chenvt (Apr 12, 2008)

Next you should say, "I found on tampahumidors these really nice ones" for him to tell you why they're crap.. you could propose any alternative and he'll probably try to convince you otherwise until you mention his products


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## romwarrior (Jan 16, 2008)

I am CERTAINLY no expert but it seems to me that if we are only talking about boxes, this makes no sense. They are already surrounded by SC. Exactly how many layers of SC do you need to properly age?

If we are talking singles outside of boxes, then it would make a little more sense.


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## JCK (Nov 9, 2006)

Besides the wonderful aroma of Spanish Cedar, which I'm not sure i'd want infused in all my cigars, the point of the Cedar is to provide a medium that is resistant to mold and help maintain humidity.

As far as I'm concerned you can use any container that doesn't infuse any odors into your cigars if you can maintain your desired humidity level.

Besides, if you've got cigars in cigar boxes already, how is more wood outside the box going to help you age your cigars.

As far as temperature goes, there's always going to be debate. But I tell you i'd rather have my cigars on the cooler side than the warmer side.


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## Mark THS (Feb 5, 2007)

For sale in his store:

Coolers? No
Vinotemps? No
Desktop Humidors? Yes

My dear Watson, I have a clue


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## hogz (May 31, 2008)

Should have asked the what temp he recommends


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## Scimmia (Sep 22, 2006)

haha, I love the "can't get the temperature high enough" line, when Habanos SA includes an instruction sheet that says to keep the between 16-18C (60-65F). Why in the world does he think cigar need heat?

Spanish cedar has nothing to do with aging a cigar. It's there as a humidity buffer, to help repel insects and mold, and to a much lesser extent, to lend some flavor to the cigar. None of this is "aging".


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## borndead1 (Oct 21, 2006)

I have the temperature in my VinoTemp set at 68*...that's too cold???  


From my experience, people who own or work at B&Ms are not the most knowledgeable about cigars. There are many stories here on CS about B&M owners/employees claiming that mold is plume, keeping the humidity of their humidors at 75% or even higher, etc.


I will trust the opinion of 1,000 gorillas before I trust the opinion of 1 businessman. :ss


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## SilverFox (Feb 19, 2008)

blckthree said:


> So I am in visiting my local B&M and discussing humidors, storing cigars, Vinotemps, Coolerdors, etc. He gives me his opinions which vary greatly from what I have seen here.
> 
> Coolerdors, he says they will deep a cigar fresh, but they won't age a cigar because you cant get enough Spanish Cedar in them and not to keep them in there for longer than 3 months. *Not enough spanish cedar in it. Hmmm I have a piece of 1/4 solid spanish cedar that is the same as the bottom interior dimension of my cooler which I would hazard a guess has as much or more exposed surface area of cedar as any of his desktops do. That and the issue is BS as in coolers are normally boxes which also have spanish cedar in them. I would also look in his store humidor and do the math on the spanish cedar to cigar ratio in his walk in, I am betting it wouldn't be the same as what he is suggesting. I agree with all the other posters, this is just sales BS*
> 
> ...


Answers imbedded in OP


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## blckthree (Jan 19, 2008)

clampdown said:


> I keep some singles in my Daniel Marshall and my boxes in a large cooler and i have sen no difference with them. Some have been in there for a few years. Remember, he probably doesnt sell coolers or vino's so he is probably looking for some humidor business. Good luck, and tell us what you decide to do.


For now, I don't have a need for a Vinotemp yet and am still waiting on approval from the wife to purchase one. Until the need and approval are here, I keep the picture below stuck to the 'fridge in the kitchen as a constant reminder to her. One of these days she will just tell me to go get one and be done with it, and hopefully that happens before my desktops are full.










Pretty much what I thought about his opinions, he doesnt sell them, he wants me to buy from him. I was having trouble understanding the part about them not aging though, that one had me scratching my head for a while and really blew his theories out of the water. You guys finished his theories off.

Thanks guys,
Mike


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## Costa (Jan 26, 2008)

Trust the collective 100,000 years of real experience that you here at CS. 

None of these guys are trying to make a dime off of you, and will give you the best input based on their vast experience and their love of the hobby.

The guys here have never, ever steered me wrong.

My :2


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## Dgar (Sep 12, 2006)

borndead1 said:


> From my experience, people who own or work at B&Ms are not the most knowledgeable about cigars. There are many stories here on CS about B&M owners/employees claiming that mold is plume, keeping the humidity of their humidors at 75% or even higher, etc.


:tpd: It never ceases to amaze me how little some folks know who actually work at or even own some Cigar shops. I agree with others here, the CS community is as good a source of cigar knowledge as you'll find...

I would'nt say the guy was intentionaly misleading you, I'd rather believe he's talking about things he has no real knowledge of or experience with, But he is WRONG!!!

I dont own a vinotemp, but I am the proud owner of a 168qt cooler that I've been using for a couple years now and it is much easier to maintain than any of the desktops I own


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## hogz (May 31, 2008)

Now that's a cooler!


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## lenguamor (Nov 23, 2006)

oldforge said:


> *I wouldn't do business with the guy. He is lying to you.
> *
> I have been storing my smokes in boxes in coolerdors and tupperdors for years and they have aged magnificently.
> 
> I have some other smokes in humidors and they have done fine as well.


:tpd:

He's either lying, which makes him dishonest - and why would you do business with a dishonest merchant when there are so many stand-up guys running B&M's - or he's ignorant, which makes him an idiot for spouting off about something he doesn't know...and why would you want to do business with an idiot?

Either way, I myself would take my business elsewhere henceforth.


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## floydpink (Feb 15, 2007)

Wow Dgar, that is nice. I could be buried happily in that when it's my time.


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## rwhit37 (Mar 3, 2008)

He's on crack end of story. He's trying to get you to buy every humidor in his store so the money is in his pocket and not yours! If its such a bad idea why do numerous people here have them? It's a great idea. Keep it and blow off his comments.:tu


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## O-Danger (Apr 26, 2008)

I agree that there are many owners that simply do not have the knowledge and make up something as not to sound ignorant. I once asked the owner of a B&M about humi beads, he had no knowledge on the subject but lucky for me he let me know instead of leading astray. Look for someone that wont feed you :BS

-:2


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## Volt (Jan 6, 2008)

That is one sweet sweet set up. I may "borrow you cooler idea.



Dgar said:


> :tpd: It never ceases to amaze me how little some folks know who actually work at or even own some Cigar shops. I agree with others here, the CS community is as good a source of cigar knowledge as you'll find...
> 
> I would'nt say the guy was intentionaly misleading you, I'd rather believe he's talking about things he has no real knowledge of or experience with, But he is WRONG!!!
> 
> I dont own a vinotemp, but I am the proud owner of a 168qt cooler that I've been using for a couple years now and it is much easier to maintain than any of the desktops I own


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## Bax (Sep 12, 2007)

Most desktops aren't spanish cedar. They're pine or polplar or something with a very thin veneer of spanish cedar. The wrapper on some cigars is thicker than your average humi liner. You can put in as much as you like, boxes, shelves or liners. 

I don't know if he was telling you a lie, it might be what he believes. But remember, just because you believe something doesn't make it true. :tu


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## MoTheMan (May 24, 2003)

blckthree said:


> *. . .*
> 
> Vinotemps, he says they are bad for cigars because you cant get the temperature high enough, they stay too cold for a cigar to season. Also the same theory about not being able to get enough Spanish Cedar in one to properly age a cigar.
> Mike


Hmm!

Just don't go telling that to Poker. I hear he's geting himself a Vinotemp.

As for me, I always preferred a Closetdor. A couple of gorillas I know have also recently converted closets into walk-in humidors, without all the extra cost of building a new one.

There are many different ways to store cigars. Some of that depends on how much you want to spend on storage, some of that on personal considerations.

The Brits (& some Europeans) often use their basements, where it's colder (60 deg) and constantly damp year round. They'll often store their wines right along with their cigars there. I've been inside a basement or two like that. It's amazing that they keep their temp & RH so constant year round.

The only advice I'll give is this, how do you want to store your cigars, and how much do you want to spend? Those should be the key questions. Using your imagination from there is all up to you.


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## BigDilly (May 4, 2008)

Mark THS said:


> For sale in his store:
> 
> Coolers? No
> Vinotemps? No
> ...


:tpd::tpd::tpd:

It's all about The Benjamins Baby:ss


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## ellisb (May 24, 2008)

rwhit37 said:


> He's on crack end of story. He's trying to get you to buy every humidor in his store so the money is in his pocket and not yours! If its such a bad idea why do numerous people here have them? It's a great idea. Keep it and blow off his comments.:tu


I think the merchant is trying to protect his cigar business and not his humidor business.

Once you go to a Vino or a huge cooler, you'll start buying boxes online and not from your local B&M. I have seen B&M owners say some pretty nasty stuff about the online guys to protect their business.

I have been using my cooler for years with absolutely no complaints. Have no fear....

-EB


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## blckthree (Jan 19, 2008)

ellisb said:


> I think the merchant is trying to protect his cigar business and not his humidor business.
> 
> -EB


Yeah, I would agree, he only had 3 humidors in the place. I never mentioned buying cigars online, I thought that would be the kiss of death for me as far as having a good relationship with the B&M was concerned. He's a good guy, knowledgeable within his realm of things, would have never even brought up the subject if I hadn't asked him first. I was curious as to what kind of answer he would give me.

I know I wouldnt be buying boxes in the store, they are too much money there. But it is nice to go in and find one or two you want to try without waiting on the mail and paying shipping.

Mike


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## oldforge (Apr 30, 2008)

blckthree said:


> Yeah, I would agree, he only had 3 humidors in the place. I never mentioned buying cigars online, I thought that would be the kiss of death for me as far as having a good relationship with the B&M was concerned. He's a good guy, knowledgeable within his realm of things, would have never even brought up the subject if I hadn't asked him first. I was curious as to what kind of answer he would give me.
> 
> I know I wouldnt be buying boxes in the store, they are too much money there. But it is nice to go in and find one or two you want to try without waiting on the mail and paying shipping.
> 
> Mike


The classy way he should have handled the situation would be to admit he was not an expert on vinotemps and coolerdors but say that humidors had always worked for him. He then should have admitted his concern you might abandon him for online vendors and then said:

"I really enjoy your visits to the store, and hope that you will come by to chat and sample a smoke or two even after you have dozens of boxes in your collection."

The B & M folks need to understand what they do have to offer and market that. Misinformation just won't cut it. If I were to continue to do business with the guy he and I would have to have a little heart to heart on the subject. If he couldn't deal with my constructive criticism then he would have to live without my patronage.

(Btw, after you have many boxes in your collection you won't be worried about waiting for a new arrival. You will be worried about how you are going to create more storage space in your vinotemp/coolerdor.  )


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## beamish (Jan 10, 2007)

blckthree said:


> So I am in visiting my local B&M and discussing humidors, storing cigars, Vinotemps, Coolerdors, etc. He gives me his opinions which vary greatly from what I have seen here.
> 
> Coolerdors, he says they will deep a cigar fresh, but they won't age a cigar because you cant get enough Spanish Cedar in them and not to keep them in there for longer than 3 months.
> 
> ...


:BS:BS


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## jkorp (Sep 27, 2007)

Dgar said:


> ....
> 
> I dont own a vinotemp, but I am the proud owner of a 168qt cooler that I've been using for a couple years now and it is much easier to maintain than any of the desktops I own


VERY nice cooler set up!

I have a Vino and it works great for storage and smoking out of. I can't speak to aging as I'm not financially at a place where I can just set boxes away for deep sleep...but, there are many here who do.

I remember reading a post by Mister Moo, I think, that found a La Vieja Habana blue label had developed plume in his winechill-a-dor. Now if that's not good aging I don't know what is.

They keep perfect temperature, mine stays around 64F. My RH stays around 62-64%. Perfect IMO.


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## jkorp (Sep 27, 2007)

Oh forgot one thing, your B&M guy doesn't know what he's talking about, which seems pretty typical unfortunately.

Go find a fuzzy cigar in his walk-in and ask him if it's plume to be sure, lol.


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## Mtmouse (Jun 11, 2007)

blckthree said:


> Also the same theory about not being able to get enough Spanish Cedar in one to properly age a cigar.


You can show him this photo and ask him how much Spanish cedar is required, in his mind.


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## blckthree (Jan 19, 2008)

Mtmouse said:


> You can show him this photo and ask him how much Spanish cedar is required, in his mind.


That's the same photo I keep on the 'fridge for the wife to constantly see. One of these days I will end up there, it seems like it happens to most of us. For now, I will get by with the two desktops I have.

Those are some sweet shelves and drawers you make!

Mike


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## s0leful0ne (Jun 15, 2008)

definitely sounds like a ploy for your biz...and for the spanish cedar comment...that is BS...my humidor, which was tremendously overpriced and overhyped is lined with mahogany...


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## pbrennan10 (Apr 9, 2007)

Time doesn't pass in my vinotemp?

Crawling in, see you guys in 4000.


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