# Real or Fake?



## John75 (Sep 28, 2012)

I just got my order of Partagas Serie P No 2., I opened those suckers up and they look and smell great. they have a perfectly consistent color across the box and have that nice slightly dry spicy Partagas smell. I turn the box over to check the production date and there is no stamp. My initial thought from seeing and smelling the cigars is that they we're legit, but once I saw the production stamp missing I thought "Uh oh, well thats not right". I've attached photos so that you all can take a look and see if I should have a conversation with the vendor where I got these. I know the old saying goes that if you have to ask, they are fake, but everything other than the missing stamp seems to be all good.

Let me know if any additional photos might help.


----------



## Scott W. (Jul 10, 2008)

I haven't heard of any legit boxes coming out with no code on the back but I'm not a guru here.


----------



## harley33 (Mar 27, 2009)

They look fine to me. I have received a box or 2 without a stamp. The fog's can chime in, but I think you are fine.


----------



## sdlaird (Mar 15, 2011)

Was there originally an outer cardboard box? Those that do have the outer cardboard box sometimes have the stamp on the cardboard box. Makes no sense to me, but they do it. If you have it check it.


----------



## John75 (Sep 28, 2012)

sdlaird said:


> Was there originally an outer cardboard box? Those that do have the outer cardboard box sometimes have the stamp on the cardboard box. Makes no sense to me, but they do it. If you have it check it.


Unfortunately, no there wasn't a carboard box. if there originally was, the vendor removed it, they sent the cedar box vacuum packed and shipped it in cardboard with a small layer of packing peanuts.

Thanks for that info though, i'll keep a look out for that in the future.


----------



## harley33 (Mar 27, 2009)

John75 said:


> Unfortunately, no there wasn't a carboard box. if there originally was, the vendor removed it, they sent the cedar box vacuum packed and shipped it in cardboard with a small layer of packing peanuts.
> 
> Thanks for that info though, i'll keep a look out for that in the future.


I have never had a box of P2's with a cardboard box, so I think that you are ok there. The 898's are the only Party's that I have purchased that come with a outer box. The only way to tell is to fire one up!


----------



## sdlaird (Mar 15, 2011)

harley33 said:


> I have never had a box of P2's with a cardboard box, so I think that you are ok there. The 898's are the only Party's that I have purchased that come with a outer box. The only way to tell is to fire one up!


I raised that because I JUST received the 898 with the cardboard outer box and did not know if other Partys were shipped that way. My Shorts and PSD4s were not, but never had the P2. Good luck!


----------



## asmartbull (Aug 16, 2009)

Lack of a box code and the look of the wrappers have my radar up
PM sent...


----------



## [OT] Loki (May 24, 2006)

do you trust where you got them from? if so, no problems. if not, why did you buy in the first place?


----------



## Habanolover (Feb 22, 2006)

I can't see any photos but I am sure Al and the others will help you sort this out. We are talking about Cuba here so anything is possible. Not likely with something of this nature but there is certainly the possibility of it. 

As always, you need to have 100% confidence in the vendor(s) you use. Hope it all turns out well.


----------



## OnePyroTec (Dec 11, 1997)

My two concerns are no date code stamp and the warranty seal should be bent over the corner of the box right in the middle of the shield.
Do you have a bar code on the bottom of the warranty seal? No image of that part...


----------



## Habanolover (Feb 22, 2006)

I still cannot see the pics. Can everyone else see them? WTF! :noidea:


----------



## [OT] Loki (May 24, 2006)

Habanolover said:


> I still cannot see the pics. Can everyone else see them? WTF! :noidea:


get on my level, 

they're hosted on photobucket


----------



## OnePyroTec (Dec 11, 1997)

Habanolover said:


> I still cannot see the pics. Can everyone else see them? WTF! :noidea:


changer browser to firefox


----------



## Habanolover (Feb 22, 2006)

[OT] Loki said:


> get on my level,
> 
> they're hosted on photobucket


lol



OnePyroTec said:


> changer browser to firefox


Ok got it with Chrome. I use Opera and when it detects the connection is slow it helps speed it up by not loading images, etc.

*OP, any chance of getting a pic of the cigars with better lighting. Seems the lighting has the right side of the box shaded. Just curious about the consistency of the coloring from cigar to cigar.*


----------



## thunderdan11 (Nov 15, 2010)

Hmmm. The lack of box code would make me concerned as well. The wrappers look a little bit off and inconsistent but a picture sometimes distortes this. 

I am sure that you will get the help u need here.


----------



## TonyBrooklyn (Jan 28, 2010)

harley33 said:


> They look fine to me. I have received a box or 2 without a stamp. The fog's can chime in, but I think you are fine.


THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I have gotten boxes without stamps in the past.
Smoke one its the only real way to tell as those pictures are not so good that i can pinpoint any other discrepancies!


----------



## John75 (Sep 28, 2012)

[OT] Loki said:


> do you trust where you got them from? if so, no problems. if not, why did you buy in the first place?


Unfortunately Loki, I'm really new to the dark side, so I really don't trust any vendors yet. This vendor was new to me and a few folks on another board recommended said they were legit -- I know, I know don't listen to folks on the other boards, 8). When I got the box and saw that the code wasn't there. I was a bit concerned.

Thanks for the replies guys. I have a few Pm's to answer and I'll try to get some better photos to get you all a closer look, but I can say that the color of the wrappers is dead on from cigar to cigar, there is no difference in color in them.

Fortunately, the PSP2 is the one Habano that I am familiar with, so I'll be able to tell if it's bogus when I smoke one.


----------



## tpharkman (Feb 20, 2010)

OnePyroTec said:


> My two concerns are no date code stamp and the warranty seal should be bent over the corner of the box right in the middle of the shield.
> Do you have a bar code on the bottom of the warranty seal? No image of that part...


I have rcvd several boxes lately where the shield isn't creased exactly in the middle. The cigars in the box are the absolute real deal so I am not sure how much merit the location of the shield crease is anymore. The fold on this box is pretty close to where I would expect it should be. I guess it is a combination of things that might cause concern but if I new his vendor I could pretty well answer whether these were authentic or not.


----------



## OnePyroTec (Dec 11, 1997)

tpharkman said:


> I have rcvd several boxes lately where the shield isn't creased exactly in the middle. The cigars in the box are the absolute real deal so I am not sure how much merit the location of the shield crease is anymore. The fold on this box is pretty close to where I would expect it should be. I guess it is a combination of things that might cause concern but if I new his vendor I could pretty well answer whether these were authentic or not.


I can say, I haven't bought any current production cigars except some culebras, I tend to get older stuff. I have have purchased more than a few boxes, in the last couple+ decades all of which came from LCDH shops, and all had the seal right on the corner and had date codes. That being said, even a certain LCDH shop in Mexico was caught selling fakes in the early 2000's

The date codes missing has me more concerned than the seal BTW. The Seal just ads to it. From what I have been told & seen on the few newer boxes that had the sticker with D.O.P., the D.O.P. on the chevron sticker should be visible on the top, not bending around the side.

For reading information only: Genuineness of Product


----------



## John75 (Sep 28, 2012)

Hey guys,
Here are some photos of the sticks actually taken with a camera instead of my phone. 
As you can see the color is dead on from stick to stick. Thanks for all the replies to this!


----------



## OnePyroTec (Dec 11, 1997)

Do you have the bar code on the warranty seal?


----------



## John75 (Sep 28, 2012)

OnePyroTec said:


> Do you have the bar code on the warranty seal?


That was the second big red flag for me, it had been sliced off, funny thing is that half of it was stuck to the bottom of the box. The box was not opened, just the barcode, being cut. I knew I was taking a bit a a flyer with this vendor, most likely won't deal with them again. But still, in person the sticks definitely look and smell like the real thing. If the code was on the box and the stamp was there, I would have never questioned them. Then again, I'm new to the dark side, so what do I know!


----------



## Flapjack23 (Jan 18, 2012)

John,

Very new to CC's myself. Are the cigars all the same size or do they vary. It looks like a few are taller/shorter but it could be because they are all not lined up with the bottom of the box. Also how consistent is the taper on top?


----------



## tpharkman (Feb 20, 2010)

OnePyroTec said:


> I can say, I haven't bought any current production cigars except some culebras, I tend to get older stuff. I have have purchased more than a few boxes, in the last couple+ decades all of which came from LCDH shops, and all had the seal right on the corner and had date codes. That being said, even a certain LCDH shop in Mexico was caught selling fakes in the early 2000's
> 
> The date codes missing has me more concerned than the seal BTW. The Seal just ads to it. From what I have been told & seen on the few newer boxes that had the sticker with D.O.P., the D.O.P. on the chevron sticker should be visible on the top, not bending around the side.
> 
> For reading information only: Genuineness of Product


You most likely have way more experience than I do in the acquisition of havanas. I can tell you that the cigars I have in my collection have come from two of the most used vendors that I am aware of, which means I know of very few people around here as well as those from several other sites that do not use them. That being said the D.O.P. on the chevron is on top of the box most of the time but on several boxes it isn't. The same goes for the crease on the shield. It is usually very close to the center of the shield but in many instances there is no way I would consider it spot on.

If these two factors mean I am smoking fake havanas then so are most people I know.

I would agree with you in the fact that a combination of factors would make me more wary of the authenticity of a box missing the date stamp but Cuba is Cuba--maybe even increasingly so these days.


----------



## John75 (Sep 28, 2012)

Flapjack23 said:


> John,
> 
> Very new to CC's myself. Are the cigars all the same size or do they vary. It looks like a few are taller/shorter but it could be because they are all not lined up with the bottom of the box. Also how consistent is the taper on top?


Hey Andy, they are roughly the same size, there are minimal differences but nothing that raised an eyebrow. As far as the taper, with limited knowledge and experience, CC's don't really have a consistent taper. They aren't like Oliva's that look like they are all poured out of the same mould. Some of the more experienced guys can let you know for sure, but from what I've seen they always vary.


----------



## OnePyroTec (Dec 11, 1997)

John75 said:


> That was the second big red flag for me, it had been sliced off, funny thing is that half of it was stuck to the bottom of the box. The box was not opened, just the barcode, being cut. I knew I was taking a bit a a flyer with this vendor, most likely won't deal with them again. But still, in person the sticks definitely look and smell like the real thing. If the code was on the box and the stamp was there, I would have never questioned them. Then again, I'm new to the dark side, so what do I know!


Bar code being sliced off, at least make you think there was one there at one time, at least for some legit box. Some vendors will cut it off in efforts of cover. Also, if the seal was meant for a different box, you won't be able to check & verify if that is the case.

Several vendors list the dates/age of boxes...how can this be done if they do not have the date code. The codes have not been a secret for years, so now it is more of a marketing PLUS to know the age.

IF you are happy with them that is what counts the most.


----------



## Flapjack23 (Jan 18, 2012)

John75 said:


> Hey Andy, they are roughly the same size, there are minimal differences but nothing that raised an eyebrow. As far as the taper, with limited knowledge and experience, CC's don't really have a consistent taper. They aren't like Oliva's that look like they are all poured out of the same mould. Some of the more experienced guys can let you know for sure, but from what I've seen they always vary.


I only have 1 box of that shape (Montie #2) and that seems pretty similar to their construction....minor variances in the taper.


----------



## piperdown (Jul 19, 2009)

The bar code looks off to me. The ones I've seen from a trusted vendor have a narrow white line between the end of the seal and the hologram. At least the newer box seals.

Genuineness of Product


----------



## V-ret (Jun 25, 2012)

The barcode appears to be fine. The one that Piper is referencing was used from 2009-2010. Granted it could have been used on some 2011 stock since we all know Cuba doesn't believe in wasting old seals 

But from 2010 to present, there is no white border between the hologram and the seal. Based off the pictures you have the new notice in there so it is safe to assume that this box was made sometime in 2012 as that is when they changed it up. I haven't heard of anyone receiving 2013 stock yet. 

For me everything looks good, but I don't know why there wouldn't be a stamp on the bottom of the box. Maybe this is the 1 in a million factory screw ups?


----------



## stonecutter2 (Jul 12, 2012)

They look fine to me. But I'm no expert.


----------



## morganti (Jul 16, 2012)

Stamp to Verify

Check the serial number on the label. Do a quick test, do any of the Bands slide off the cigar easily? Is the text on the label raised and does the text line up with raised lettering? When you smell the cigars do you get any hint of ammonia?

- If the bands slide off easy that could be an indicator (not conclusive by any means and can't determine authenticity alone)
- The band should have raised text and should have no flaws(flat text + a loose band = not good news)
- Most fake Cuban's have a smell of ammonia (they are rolled and then packaged immediately without any fermentation)

If you have issues with authenticity contact the seller or contact Habbanos in the country where the company operates to see if they are a licensed Habanos dealer.


----------



## John75 (Sep 28, 2012)

Just wanted to give everyone an update here. After a few PM's, it seems that the vendor is good and has a positive reputation and at this point I think the cigars are the real thing . After also speaking with the vendor this morning, he was more than helpful, he told me that it seems that the non-stamped boxes seem to happening a little more frequently lately, while not common, it does happen. We are talking about something handmade in Cuba afterall. He basically told me that if I was still uncomfortable he would reship and I could hold onto the ones I have, which at this point I think is unnecessary. All in all, they look right, smell right and tonight I'll smoke one and find out if it smokes right!

All is good, thanks to all of you BOTL's who reached out to me, you guys were very helpful, I'm glad I'm a part of this board!


----------



## piperdown (Jul 19, 2009)

John75 said:


> Just wanted to give everyone an update here. After a few PM's, it seems that the vendor is good and has a positive reputation and at this point I think the cigars are the real thing . After also speaking with the vendor this morning, he was more than helpful, he told me that it seems that the non-stamped boxes seem to happening a little more frequently lately, while not common, it does happen. We are talking about something handmade in Cuba afterall. He basically told me that if I was still uncomfortable he would reship and I could hold onto the ones I have, which at this point I think is unnecessary. All in all, they look right, smell right and tonight I'll smoke one and find out if it smokes right!
> 
> All is good, thanks to all of you BOTL's who reached out to me, you guys were very helpful, I'm glad I'm a part of this board!


That right there "speaking with the vendor" makes for a good relationship.


----------



## tpharkman (Feb 20, 2010)

John75 said:


> Just wanted to give everyone an update here. After a few PM's, it seems that the vendor is good and has a positive reputation and at this point I think the cigars are the real thing . After also speaking with the vendor this morning, he was more than helpful, he told me that it seems that the non-stamped boxes seem to happening a little more frequently lately, while not common, it does happen. We are talking about something handmade in Cuba afterall. He basically told me that if I was still uncomfortable he would reship and I could hold onto the ones I have, which at this point I think is unnecessary. All in all, they look right, smell right and tonight I'll smoke one and find out if it smokes right!
> 
> All is good, thanks to all of you BOTL's who reached out to me, you guys were very helpful, I'm glad I'm a part of this board!


Cuba is Cuba...trust the vendor trust the smokes.


----------



## TonyBrooklyn (Jan 28, 2010)

"
Enjoy your cigars!"All's well that ends well"


----------



## nishdog007 (Oct 27, 2011)

Glad to hear everything worked out for you!


----------



## KcJason1 (Oct 20, 2010)

Trust your vendor... I've only knowin of varnished boxes to come in a cardboard. Such as the 898.. Behikes, sir Winston's etc... 

I do however know of people who have gotten code and no code on several boxes from a authorized dealer days apart on the same cigars. They were party shorts though


----------



## Rays98GoVols (Sep 22, 2008)

John75 said:


> That was the second big red flag for me, it had been sliced off, funny thing is that half of it was stuck to the bottom of the box. The box was not opened, just the barcode, being cut. I knew I was taking a bit a a flyer with this vendor, most likely won't deal with them again. But still, in person the sticks definitely look and smell like the real thing. If the code was on the box and the stamp was there, I would have never questioned them. Then again, I'm new to the dark side, so what do I know!


That just means they came from a grey market vendor. Bar Codes get sliced off by the grey market vendor in order to hide the fact that a Habanos ditributor sold them the Cigars (which they are not supposed to do). Most of the boxes I've purchased do not have the Bar Codes because most of my purchases are from grey market vendors.
I've received 1 or 2 boxes over the years with no date stamp...


----------

