# Dark-Fired Kentucky



## AlexArkansas (Jun 8, 2013)

I recently asked for suggestions on alternatives to my beloved Va/Per blends, and we got on an interesting tangent about Dark-Fired Kentucky leaf. I thought I'd start a new post on the topic. I'm thinking these are going to be the next blends I try out, and was hoping for some suggestions, preferably ones available in bulk. It would also be neat to get into a discussion of DFK leaf itselfl- how it's cured, where it's grown (if outside Kentucky), etc. Here are some blends mentioned in the previous discussion:
Solani 660 Silver Flake
Dunhill Flake
Orlik Dark Kentucky (being produced for USA customers by Peter Heinrich as Dark Strong Flake)
Gawith and Hoggarth Kendal Kentucky (Kentucky Nougat is another)
Any reviews on these, or other suggestions? Never tried any, except Samuel Gawith 1792, which I didn't know contained Kentucky leaf until I started looking into DFK blends.


----------



## freestoke (Feb 13, 2011)

Head to tobaccoreviews.com, now a piece of smokingpipes.com. You'll find a lot of information, largely correct. 

I'm a little surprised to learn that Dunhill Flake has DFK in it, though. I was under the impression that it was air cured Virginia.


----------



## indigosmoke (Sep 1, 2009)

Here's a little something on DFK from the news:

Dark-fired main reason tobacco holding on in west Kentucky - Kentucky New Era: News

This is from the Center for Tobacco Growers (whatever that is):

"Dark Tobacco

Dark air and dark-fired tobacco is primarily used for chewing, snuff, cigar, and pipe blends. The plant produces heavier and larger leaves, which are harvested on the stalk, but allowed to wilt before being placed on the stick. Mature leaves will be thick with a leathery texture and possess a somewhat oily sheen.

Dark air tobacco is cured essentially the same as burley, hanging in structures with a roof, but with either open sides or vents to allow air to freely circulate. However, due to the heavier body of dark tobacco, it may be necessary to use some type of heat to assist in the curing process.

Dark-fired tobacco is fire-cured, which means wood smoke from a burning fire is used to dry the leaves. Dark-fired tobacco is stalk-cured in a totally enclosed structure, with vents that can be opened when needed. Small, controlled fires are built on the floor of the barn using sawdust and hardwood slabs, and the leaves cure in the smoke-filled barn. This process adds a smoky flavor and aroma to the tobacco, which is desired for some smokeless tobacco products. The firing process is more of an art than a science and requires experience and skill to prevent ruining the tobacco.

Dark tobacco is grown primarily in small regions of Virginia, Kentucky, and Tennessee, with the regions within Kentucky and Tennessee producing over 90 percent of the US dark tobacco production."


----------



## commonsenseman (Apr 18, 2008)

Better add Irish Flake, Bracken Flake & Dark Birds-eye to your list!


----------



## freestoke (Feb 13, 2011)

Ahhhhh. Irish Flake. Mmmmmm. Dark Birdseye. :smile:


----------



## ProbateGeek (Oct 13, 2010)

I favor Kendal Dark ever so slightly over Kendal Kentucky - pretty much the same thing to my tastes, though. Both are fantastic.

Also, note that some Italian cigars - I'm thinking Toscano - uses "Italian" and American Kentucky. And it tastes like they do.


----------



## MarkC (Jul 4, 2009)

indigosmoke said:


> Here's a little something on DFK from the news:


THANK YOU! This term has been driving me batsh*t since the first time I read it.


----------



## steinr1 (Oct 22, 2010)

ProbateGeek said:


> Also, note that some Italian cigars - I'm thinking Toscano - uses "Italian" and American Kentucky. And it tastes like they do.


A type of cigar that everyone should try at least once. The tobacco is subject to a secondary fermention. A legacy of a fortuitous accident where a shipment of Kentucky tobacco got soaked and the resulting "mess" was made up into cheap cigars for local consumption. The accident has been intentionally repeated for about 200 years now.



freestoke said:


> I'm a little surprised to learn that Dunhill Flake has DFK in it, though. I was under the impression that it was air cured Virginia.


Pretty sure you're right.


----------



## blendtobac (Sep 14, 2011)

I love dark-fired, and have used it in BlackHouse, Cerberus, Freight Train, Slice O' Gold, among others, and I'll have a blend in the works with a healthy amount of dark-fired and Perique.

Russ


----------



## gahdzila (Apr 29, 2010)

Ya know, I was just saying to myself just the other day - "self, I do believe dark fired Kentucky is my current favorite leaf."

Here's a few of my current favs -

Peterson Irish Flake
MacBarren Old Dark Fired
GL Pease Jackknife Plug/Ready Rubbed
One of the Rattray's Virginias has a nice DFK component, but dang it if I can remember which....Old Gowrie, maybe?
GL Pease Triple Play *** I've only recently tried Triple Play, but I like it quite a bit. I'd recommend this one in particular to you, as it has a healthy dose of perique and you said you're a perique fan.


----------



## AlexArkansas (Jun 8, 2013)

Thanks for the suggestions and info, guys! A big thanks to Russ for chiming in. Looks like I need to ask about Dark Fired on the cigar forum as well- curious to see how it tastes in that form. I know DE is comingg out with a MUWAT with DFK in it, but I'm curious as to what else is out there. Here's the updated list of recommendations- let me know if I've missed something:
Solani 660 Silver Flake
Dunhill Flake (possibly-I've found conflicting assesments)
Orlik Dark Kentucky (being produced for USA customers by Peter Heinrich as Dark Strong Flake)
Gawith and Hoggarth Kendal Kentucky (Kentucky Nougat is another)
G&H Dark Birdseye
Peterson Irish Flake
MacBarren Old Dark Fired
GL Pease Jackknife Plug/Ready Rubbed
H&H BlackHouse, Cerberus, Freight Train, Slice O' Gold (some of these contain other condiment leaves as well)


----------



## Commander Quan (May 6, 2003)

freestoke said:


> Head to tobaccoreviews.com, now a piece of smokingpipes.com.


Is this true? I thought it was P&T magazine.


----------



## jco3rd (Apr 1, 2013)

Thanks for starting this thread. I feel my TAD about to kick back in and some of these went to the top of my list!


----------



## steinr1 (Oct 22, 2010)

AlexArkansas said:


> Dunhill Flake (possibly-I've found conflicting assesments)


Don't think there should be much controversy. It's a very fine Virginia tobacco; one of the best. If you are looking specifially for a DFK driven tobacco, you will be sorely disappointed.

I'm disapointed that the Orlik Dark Kentucky is no longer available in the UK. I used to like it occasionally. The short stripey flakes were a pleasure to look at as well as smoke. Sweet Virginia backbone with added rich body from the fired Kentucky. Lovely.


----------



## AlexArkansas (Jun 8, 2013)

Not sure if it's available across the pond, but Peter Heinrich's Dark Strong Flake is apparently Orlik DK in a different tin. Not sure why- Heinrich isn't a big name over here, and the stuff is rare and relatively pricey (coming from Germany).


----------



## steinr1 (Oct 22, 2010)

AlexArkansas said:


> Not sure if it's available across the pond, but Peter Heinrich's Dark Strong Flake is apparently Orlik DK in a different tin. Not sure why- Heinrich isn't a big name over here, and the stuff is rare and relatively pricey (coming from Germany).


It's not a brand I've ever seen in the UK.


----------



## laloin (Jun 29, 2010)

better add C&D ER to the list, contains DFK


----------



## drastic_quench (Sep 12, 2008)

I was the one who mentioned Solani Silver. It uses DFK as a component tobacco to perfection. There's just the right amount in there. It's not a VA, and it's not a brick of Kentucky, it is a delicious blend.


----------



## AlexArkansas (Jun 8, 2013)

Seems like Germain's Brown Flake and Dark Flake (doesn't seem to be available in the States) are two more that fit the bill.


----------



## steinr1 (Oct 22, 2010)

AlexArkansas said:


> Seems like Germain's Brown Flake and *Dark Flake* (doesn't seem to be available in the States) are two more that fit the bill.


Many contend that Rich Dark Flake is available in the US. It's Esoterica Stonehaven as made by Germain. Germain are quoted in response to a query of "What's the same as Stonehaven in the UK?" with "That'll be Rich Dark Flake." They weren't as up front as that. They said it was "close" apparently. Some reviews I've seen back this up and more. There are a number of dissenters. "Close, but no cigar." Just been a couple of posts on this subject in another thread. blackadam said that the Brown Flake was "very similar"to Stonehaven (which I've never tried, but he has). He's not tried the Dark.

In any event, the Rich Dark Flake (or Stonehaven...) is superb and worth a go on general principle. I was an immediate convert and now have a bit less than 2kg in stock. More will probably follow. I am adding the Brown Flake to my wish list for my next order. I'm on a Germain's kick; all the blends I've tried have been fantastic without exception.

The Dark isn't a blend that I would typify as being driven by the Burley and it certainly isn't one where the "Dark Fired" nature that leaf can have is forward. To me, the Burley is a sweetener and lends fruitiness rather than ooomph and spice.

In that same "fruity Burley" mould is Warrior Plug. Not sure about US availability. Can be a bit spicey; a contender?

Revor Plug might be what you are looking for (again, if you can lay hands on it). Strong DFK in that I'm sure. Very slightly smokey (the DFK?) and a very slightly sweet backbone from the Virginia. Hints of spice and a dollop of liquorice. I could be persuaded that it had a hint of Perique but I think not. A very traditional stout VaBur smoke. Serious tobacco.

So much tobacco to try. None with Perique so you are safe. I think that Warrior Plug can be got from the US snuff supplier of choice, MrSnuff.

Good luck in your hunt for a tobacco to your taste that is "domestically acceptable"! And apologies for my usual rambling post.


----------



## indigosmoke (Sep 1, 2009)

steinr1 said:


> The Dark isn't a blend that I would typify as being driven by the Burley and it certainly isn't one where the "Dark Fired" nature that leaf can have is forward. To me, the Burley is a sweetener and lends fruitiness rather than ooomph and spice.


If it is anything like Stonehaven (which I love) then I would say this is spot on. By the way, that's not a ramble, but a darn good post.


----------



## AlexArkansas (Jun 8, 2013)

Received an order containing Mac Baren's Old Dark and GL Pease Jack Knife and have been smoking them exclusively this week. Of all the blends listed so far, Solani Silver intrigues me most, but it's a bit costlier and I wanted to be sure I really liked DFK before buying a tin. So far, these blends remind me of bourbon whiskey more than anything- feint sweetness from the VAs with a smoky/woodsy profile predominating DFK seems less like a condimental leaf than perique or (to a lesser extent) latakia, in the sense that it holds its own against the Virginias rather than combining with and altering them. I'm glad you guys got me on this kick and plan on trying some new ones, though I have been missing my usual Va/Per blends. More suggestions are welcome, and I'll update the list soon.


----------



## freestoke (Feb 13, 2011)

AlexArkansas said:


> DFK seems less like a condimental leaf than perique or (to a lesser extent) latakia, in the sense that it holds its own against the Virginias rather than combining with and altering them.


:spy: Condiment? DFK less like a condiment tobacco? :shock: A LOT less like a condiment tobacco. :smile: That would be like calling a T-Bone steak an appetizer.


----------



## mikebjrtx (May 21, 2012)

AlexArkansas said:


> Received an order containing Mac Baren's Old Dark and GL Pease Jack Knife and have been smoking them exclusively this week. Of all the blends listed so far, Solani Silver intrigues me most, but it's a bit costlier and I wanted to be sure I really liked DFK before buying a tin. So far, these blends remind me of bourbon whiskey more than anything- feint sweetness from the VAs with a smoky/woodsy profile predominating DFK seems less like a condimental leaf than perique or (to a lesser extent) latakia, in the sense that it holds its own against the Virginias rather than combining with and altering them. I'm glad you guys got me on this kick and plan on trying some new ones, though I have been missing my usual Va/Per blends. More suggestions are welcome, and I'll update the list soon.


I have a couple I can send samples if you pm your address or add it to your profile


----------



## gahdzila (Apr 29, 2010)

freestoke said:


> :spy: Condiment? DFK less like a condiment tobacco? :shock: A LOT less like a condiment tobacco. :smile: That would be like calling a T-Bone steak an appetizer.


:lol: Depends on how hungry you are, I guess!

I browsed my old reviews, it was Old Gowrie that I was thinking of in my previous post. And I guess one could call the DFK component of Old Gowrie a condiment. It seemed like mostly Virginia to me, with the DFK giving it a little backbone.

Any tobacco could be considered a condiment (or not), I suppose, depending on the blend. Alex mentioned latakia as a condiment...for example, I'd hardly call the latakia component of C&D Pirate Kake a condiment.










:banana:


----------



## MarkC (Jul 4, 2009)

freestoke said:


> :spy: Condiment? DFK less like a condiment tobacco? :shock: A LOT less like a condiment tobacco. :smile: That would be like calling a T-Bone steak an appetizer.


On the other hand, GL Pease uses it as a condiment tobacco in both Caravan and Montgomery to great advantage.


----------



## freestoke (Feb 13, 2011)

Okay, Clifford, Mark...condiment tobacco it is! :lol: I'll think of it as the ham in bean soup. :smile: I guess anything could be called a condiment tobacco, thought of that way, but I generally think of it as something that is never smoked straight up, like orientals or -- :spy: -- shouldn't be, like black Canvendish. 

Bear in mind, I smoke a lot KK and find it culturally difficult to consider it a mere flavoring.


----------



## AlexArkansas (Jun 8, 2013)

PM sent to Mike- thanks! I guess any leaf can be used as a condiment or a main course- I was using the term to denote the ability of some tobaccos (perique being the most notable) to alter the flavor of other leafs. In this, Jim is probably right that I understated things. DFK is like the loud trumpet player in the ensemble, whom the conductor (blender) is always reminding to quiet down (or not). In any case, thanks again for all the suggestions, y'all!


----------



## laloin (Jun 29, 2010)

I think of DFK as I do Perique. They both can't be smoked straight up. Less you like turning green and puking your guts out. They both lend body to a blend, that needs a bit of a nicotine kick


----------



## freestoke (Feb 13, 2011)

laloin said:


> I think of DFK as I do Perique. They both can't be smoked straight up. Less you like turning green and puking your guts out. They both lend body to a blend, that needs a bit of a nicotine kick


I wouldn't care much for straight perique, for sure, but I can smoke Dark Birdseye, Kendal's Kentucky, Aged Burley Flake, Five Brothers, _et hoc genus omne, _pretty much non-stop. No turning green, no puking, so I wonder what you find so overwhelming. Now some ropes and twists and plugs do pack more punch, and I can't just keep smokin' something like Happy Bogie. I need to dilute those things with some KK or something. Those are generally Virginias, though, not burley.


----------



## laloin (Jun 29, 2010)

wow I can't smoke strong blends like what you mentioned. can't deal too well for high nicotine blends like g&h birdeye, or some of the ropes hehhehe
I prefer DFK over burley blends. Burley tastes like burnt bitter chocolate, with earth mix in. I do enjoy C&D Haunted Bookshop but that a burley, red virginia, perique blend, yum 
to each their own eh Jim


----------



## ProbateGeek (Oct 13, 2010)

Jim, I really need to send you a Toscano cigar. I'm thinking an Antico Riserva. It's like a little KK stick - I think you'd really enjoy it. 

Now, if only I had some to send ... May be remedying that some day soon.


----------



## laloin (Jun 29, 2010)

Toscano cigar, are those the cigars that Clint Eastwood was smoking in the good, bad and ugly movie?


----------



## MichaeldeL (Aug 21, 2012)

laloin said:


> Toscano cigar, are those the cigars that Clint Eastwood was smoking in the good, bad and ugly movie?


Yup those are the cigars Clint smoked in the movie you mentioned.


----------



## freestoke (Feb 13, 2011)

laloin said:


> I prefer DFK over burley blends.


Kentucky is a strain of burley, although there are certainly weak burley strains, like what goes into cigarettes (I think that's white burley? :ask: Can't remember...). I think it's just a matter of becoming accustomed to nicotine, a tolerance which ratchets up slowly. I would guess the gymnasium for building up your Vitamin N muscles would be chewing tobacco. :lol: And once you are sufficiently nicotine tolerant -- you're addicted!! :banana:


----------



## ProbateGeek (Oct 13, 2010)

laloin said:


> Toscano cigar, are those the cigars that Clint Eastwood was smoking in the good, bad and ugly movie?


Could be Toscanos - some say another Italian brand. I've had only two, and I prefer the Toscanos. These were the ones I most enjoyed, the Antica Riserva (there is also a Toscano Antico, but it's not as rich):


----------



## freestoke (Feb 13, 2011)

They look awfully round and refined to be the irregular cheroot that Eastwood had clenched in his teeth. Maybe it was just the grainy photography, though. And one of my favorite anachronisms came in one of those spaghetti westerns. The zapata-clad peasants, with their hemp shirts, sarapes and ratty sombreros are attacking the bad guys, scrambling and sweating over the rocks and boulders in the steamy evening air of the Mexican sector of southern Italy (everybody sweats a lot in a spaghetti western, and everybody has clearly been sweating a lot for a long time). One of the brave amigos is wearing a wrist watch, possibly a fake Rolex, with a gold expansion band. Nice touch. :lol:


----------



## ProbateGeek (Oct 13, 2010)

freestoke said:


> They look awfully round and refined to be the irregular cheroot that Eastwood had clenched in his teeth. Maybe it was just the grainy photography, though. And one of my favorite anachronisms came in one of those spaghetti westerns. The zapata-clad peasants, with their hemp shirts, sarapes and ratty sombreros are attacking the bad guys, scrambling and sweating over the rocks and boulders in the steamy evening air of the Mexican sector of southern Italy (everybody sweats a lot in a spaghetti western, and everybody has clearly been sweating a lot for a long time). One of the brave amigos is wearing a wrist watch, possibly a fake Rolex, with a gold expansion band. Nice touch. :lol:


Clint probably only smoked them halved (Ammezzato style). I tried that - usually ended up smoking the other half, as they are quite good.


----------



## MarkC (Jul 4, 2009)

All this time I thought Clint was smoking a Parodi...


----------



## freestoke (Feb 13, 2011)

MarkC said:


> All this time I thought Clint was smoking a Parodi...


I started hunting for the definitive answer and this might be it, from wikianswers:

*Clint Eastwood said in a recent interview that he brought the cigars from the US & they were called "Virginians" & described them as a strong smoke that put him in a foul mood. He liked them cause the were long & skinny & he would chop them into thirds to fit in his pocket.

Traditional Toscani dry cured cigars (in the vein of DeNobili's) were my guess for a long time due to it being shot in Italy, but alas, this is not the case.

It has long been speculated that what he was smoking was the nub of a Marsh Wheeling cigar ( Marsh Wheeling Stogies ) which is probably the most period accurate smoke that you can still buy. They are a 7" x 34 ring smoke & can be considered hearty in comparison to other smokes of it's ilk.

I believe that Clint's "Virginian" brand smoke was any one of the million different Marsh Wheeling style knock off brands that was available in the 1960's. I can't find a google reference for it, so I am sure the brand is long dead & gone, but Wheeling's still exist if you want the experience. *

From this, they were Wheeling Virginians, apparently now defunct.


----------



## steinr1 (Oct 22, 2010)

ProbateGeek said:


> Clint probably only smoked them halved (Ammezzato style). I tried that - usually ended up smoking the other half, as they are quite good.


I notice that the beast that is Il Moro is missing from this line-up...















Standard 50g tin for scale. They even come with their own cutter to discourage any madman who might think of smoking one whole.

Smoke that and remain fashionable, Clint.


----------



## TTecheTTe (Jun 10, 2012)

freestoke said:


> Kentucky is a strain of burley, although there are certainly weak burley strains, like what goes into cigarettes (I think that's white burley? :ask: Can't remember...). I think it's just a matter of becoming accustomed to nicotine, a tolerance which ratchets up slowly. I would guess the gymnasium for building up your Vitamin N muscles would be chewing tobacco. :lol: And once you are sufficiently nicotine tolerant -- you're addicted!! :banana:


What is the exception to the rule? A freak? Well, that I am...

Clint's smokes were definitely American "Vajinas" (or however you spell the way he said it) which he took over with him for the part. They were a Virginia Cheerot of some variety, but in my research a while back, as while as others, it appears that he has never specified the cigar. In an interview he gave a number of years back which I saw, and whereby he described the cigar, he stated that he actually did not smoke and did not smoke these cigars in the movies!

He decided to use them as a prop, feeling that it was right for his character (I think, but am not certain, that he said it made him look tough/mean). Also, he choose a "long, slender" cheerot so that he could break it into various sizes for film continuity, so that it looked like he was smoking while he actually was not.


----------



## laloin (Jun 29, 2010)

great now you got me wanting to buy a cheerot stogie, and cut it into thirds to smoke mari...way to go


----------



## MichaeldeL (Aug 21, 2012)

steinr1 said:


> I notice that the beast that is Il Moro is missing from this line-up...
> 
> View attachment 44742
> View attachment 44743
> ...


Yeah Il Moro is quite rare to get. Well sometimes I choose to smoke a Toscanello instead of cutting a Toscano into half.


----------



## blackadam (Jun 28, 2011)

I have to try these. Can anyone recommend a vendor? We don't seem to have them locally and my usual online cigar merchant doesn't seem to carry them.


----------



## steinr1 (Oct 22, 2010)

blackadam said:


> I have to try these. Can anyone recommend a vendor? We don't seem to have them locally and my usual online cigar merchant doesn't seem to carry them.


I think these guys may be the only US supplier. Not my locale...

https://www.italiansmokes.com/

Good luck trying to find Il Moro. Difficult even in Italy and very, very pricey.


----------



## ProbateGeek (Oct 13, 2010)

steinr1 said:


> I think these guys may be the only US supplier. Not my locale...
> 
> https://www.italiansmokes.com/
> 
> Good luck trying to find Il Moro. Difficult even in Italy and very, very pricey.


Yes, that's the place to pick up Toscanos. I've found one other US website, but it is unsecured and has a reputation of ripping customers off. I can highly recommend the Antica Riserva, though they are the more pricier of the lot. I'm still jonesin' for them with strong black coffee.


----------



## steinr1 (Oct 22, 2010)

ProbateGeek said:


> I'm still jonesin' for them with strong black coffee.


Toscanello Caffe...


----------



## ProbateGeek (Oct 13, 2010)

steinr1 said:


> Toscanello Caffe...


I dunno... Those are listed as 1/5 in the strength category, and weak cigars are like light beer to me. Or < _gulp _ ><gulp> lager instead of the more appropriate ale.

YMMV.</gulp>


----------



## MarkC (Jul 4, 2009)

ProbateGeek said:


> ...light beer...


Please, let's not slip into vulgarity here...


----------



## freestoke (Feb 13, 2011)

MarkC said:


> Please, let's not slip into vulgarity here...


Snooty hopheads. :tsk: Like badmouthing hamburgers because you only allow Kobi beef on your fork. :nono:


----------



## steinr1 (Oct 22, 2010)

ProbateGeek said:


> I dunno... Those are listed as 1/5 in the strength category, and weak cigars are like light beer to me. Or < _gulp _ ><gulp> lager instead of the more appropriate ale.
> 
> YMMV.</gulp>


Quite mild for a Toscano. They are a quick alternative to breakfast.


----------



## ProbateGeek (Oct 13, 2010)

freestoke said:


> Snooty hopheads. :tsk: Like badmouthing hamburgers because you only allow Kobi beef on your fork. :nono:


Hey, now. That's not entirely fair - we LOVE a good Kobe beef hamburger...

p


----------



## freestoke (Feb 13, 2011)

ProbateGeek said:


> Hey, now. That's not entirely fair - we LOVE a good Kobe beef hamburger...
> 
> p


One more spelling correction from Terry and I'm going to commit seppuku.


----------

