# Starting new Cigar room in my basement...



## ericryd (Dec 5, 2017)

I've seen a lot of threads out there, many old and various topics, so hopefully it's not an issue to start a fresh one as it isn't just about ventilation, but all aspects of the smoke room.

My basement construction just started today and one of the projects is my office/smoke room. I've designated a 12x15 space for this. I was going to go off Ryan Deyer's guide, but that recently went offline. So i'm here trying to get a strong checklist of things I need to address. My wife, obviously, wants 0 smoke outside the room (including rest of the basement or the upstairs floors). Here are the things i've started thinking/addressing. If anyone can add additional items as well as feedback (tell me i'm wrong) on other items, it'd be greatly appreciated.

1) Fully insulate room and use plastic tarp over between the drywall and the insulation/framing. (Necessary)?
2) Drywall ceiling with same insulation/plastic tarp
3) Create two ventilation runs to the outside. One connected to a exhaust fan for the out, and one to bring in fresh air. (I live in Chicago so Winters are cold, not sure the affect of bringing in outside air will have on the room). (Haven't looked at exhaust fans yet, not sure sizing).
4) I'll be doing a wood/pergo floor or tile, I haven't figured this out yet.
5) I will be picking up an air purifier (not sure which type yet)
6) My construction guy recommended using an outside door that has weather strips to stop leakage from the door. Is this recommended or is there an alternative? I feel having a big steel/wood outside door is overkill?
7) I'll be using canned lights. If there potential for leakage through the light? Does this need to be a concern?

Any other things i'm overlooking? Feedback? Recommendations? 

Again, any help is greatly appreciated!

Eric


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## Bird-Dog (Oct 16, 2009)

No problem starting a thread on your build-out.

IMO, if you get the ventilation sorted out properly and have a vapor barrier in the walls and ceiling, small potential leaks like the light cans won't be an issue.

A buddy of mine who does quality/craftsman renovations and such showed me pics of a basement finishing job he did using smooth plywood instead of drywall. I couldn't tell the difference, except the joints were overlaid with wood strips instead of taped and mudded (strips painted in trim color, so they looked like they belonged). I think it was a budget issue on that job, but might be better resisting smoke odors too.


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## ericryd (Dec 5, 2017)

curmudgeonista said:


> No problem starting a thread on your build-out.
> 
> IMO, if you get the ventilation sorted out properly and have a vapor barrier in the walls and ceiling, small potential leaks like the light cans won't be an issue.
> 
> A buddy of mine who does quality/craftsman renovations and such showed me pics of a basement finishing job he did using smooth plywood instead of drywall. I couldn't tell the difference, except the joints were overlaid with wood strips instead of taped and mudded (strips painted in trim color, so they looked like they belonged). I think it was a budget issue on that job, but might be better resisting smoke odors too.


That's interesting. I've been looking online all night and I love the all wood look. I was looking at painting drywall to look like wood 

I could just stain the plywood and call it a day....I like it. I'd love to see a pic how that turned out.


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## Bird-Dog (Oct 16, 2009)

ericryd said:


> That's interesting. I've been looking online all night and I love the all wood look. I was looking at painting drywall to look like wood
> 
> I could just stain the plywood and call it a day....I like it. I'd love to see a pic how that turned out.


His job was painted over the plywood. Looked like drywall except for the joints. But I could see staining it, maybe with a sprayed poly top-coat. Not exactly fine English walnut, but a lot easier on the wallet! :smile2:


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## Dooger (Dec 23, 2017)

Following 

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## PTAaron (Sep 1, 2017)

For your lights you could do what home theater guys do when soundproofing and build a backer box that is sealed. It is a little more work, but if it were me I’d go the extra step “just in case”


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## Matfam1 (Oct 13, 2017)

For ventilation, I can help with design. It’s what I do. To help with heating issues you will need an HRV (heat recovery ventilator). It’s an air to air heat exchanger. How many people will be smoking in this room at once?


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## ericryd (Dec 5, 2017)

Smokers at once: Usually me, at most ever probably 4, normally 2.

Construction is well on the way. I did normal insulation and a thick vapor wall in between dry wall (walls and ceiling). We are using a normal door with weather stripping.

For ventilation, I picked up a 290 cfm (Panasonic FV-30VQ3 WhisperCeiling). It may be weak, but for one-two people I think it will be ok. The room isn't that big (15x12 or so). This is in the ceiling and will run straight outside. We have a return to allow fresh air in, on the bottom of the room.

Still figuring out what air purifier I want to go with.

The lights, we are just using normal canned lights (4 of them). Hopefully that isn't an issue, but I guess we'll find out. 

A lot of this is on the fly, hopefully it'll be ok.


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## Matfam1 (Oct 13, 2017)

If you make your “return” opening 12*12 it should be fairly quite. 290 cfm should work for 2 people, it won’t for 4.


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## Dooger (Dec 23, 2017)

Matfam1 said:


> If you make your "return" opening 12*12 it should be fairly quite. 290 cfm should work for 2 people, it won't for 4.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Matfam- I'm planning a dedicated cigar room as well, probably 10x12'. What cfm exhaust fan do your recommend for up to 4 smokers?

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## Matfam1 (Oct 13, 2017)

@Dooger, I see your new to these parts. Maybe head on over to the introduction section and tell us all a little more about yourself. Also if you place an "@" symbol in front of the person, it tags them. To answer your question, I'd be going for 100 cfm per person.

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## ericryd (Dec 5, 2017)

Matfam1 said:


> If you make your "return" opening 12*12 it should be fairly quite. 290 cfm should work for 2 people, it won't for 4.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Will it help if I have some low end fans pushing air to the vent?


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## Matfam1 (Oct 13, 2017)

ericryd said:


> Will it help if I have some low end fans pushing air to the vent?


It will just stir the air...

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## ericryd (Dec 5, 2017)

@Matfam1 Would it be worth putting in a second vent? I could go buy another today, they haven't started the drywall in the ceiling yet. Not sure the effect on the return air though.


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## Matfam1 (Oct 13, 2017)

If 4 people smoking is the goal, then yes get another vent. The return size will need to double. Be aware though that you are exhausting 18k btuh per hour at a 20F temp difference. The same amount of air that is leaving the “building envelope” must and will find a way back into the house. If it’s cold or hot outside, this will have a pretty significant impact on the overall comfort of your home, depending on ambient conditions and the size of your house.


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## ericryd (Dec 5, 2017)

@Matfam1 If the return is at the bottom of the floor, and the fan is on, would there be a lot of leakage potential if its not a return to the outside (say pulling from the next room)? Smoke should rise to the vent naturally so the return/in would be imited? I could put a fan next to it as well to force air away?

Does that make sense?


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## ericryd (Dec 5, 2017)

Here are some pics


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## Matfam1 (Oct 13, 2017)

ericryd said:


> @Matfam1 If the return is at the bottom of the floor, and the fan is on, would there be a lot of leakage potential if its not a return to the outside (say pulling from the next room)? Smoke should rise to the vent naturally so the return/in would be imited? I could put a fan next to it as well to force air away?
> 
> Does that make sense?


With the fan running there should be very little potential for smoke leakage. Odors, on the other hand will very likely "leak" into the rest of the house.


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## ericryd (Dec 5, 2017)

@Matfam1 I'd close the return when the room is not in use. I'd hope that would help?


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## ericryd (Dec 5, 2017)

I think only 2 pics posted the first time. Here is the vent.


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## Matfam1 (Oct 13, 2017)

Odor is a funny thing... I’m guessing about this next bit. We know that smoke is particulate matter suspended in the air. I would guess that lingering odors is a result of the off gassing of that particulate matter into the air. You can get rid of the smoke portion. The particulate matter is sticky and clings to everything; every time you go into the room and smoke, you will generate more particulate matter and it will get stirred up and transferred to the rest of the house. If the expectation is zero odor in the house... I suspect there will be some disappointment. That’s the guessing part. Your exhaust is not hooked up to anything....


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## scottysauce123 (Nov 8, 2017)

What about using some type of ionizer? Don't forget to leave room for the hot tub and all the pre wiring for tv, sound (Flo from progressive insurance)
Heck I'd but put a dumb waiter in there since I'd never leave the room. 
Have you considered any type of floor heat? 

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## ericryd (Dec 5, 2017)

Matfam1 said:


> Odor is a funny thing... I'm guessing about this next bit. We know that smoke is particulate matter suspended in the air. I would guess that lingering odors is a result of the off gassing of that particulate matter into the air. You can get rid of the smoke portion. The particulate matter is sticky and clings to everything; every time you go into the room and smoke, you will generate more particulate matter and it will get stirred up and transferred to the rest of the house. If the expectation is zero odor in the house... I suspect there will be some disappointment. That's the guessing part. Your exhaust is not hooked up to anything....
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Exhaust is being hooked up his week still 

I'm planning a good air purifier for the odor as well to work in conjunction with ventilation.

If the room has an odor, I'm ok with it. Just hoping it doesn't leak to the house much.

Guess we will see!


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## Matfam1 (Oct 13, 2017)

Something to consider: if you make the room negative in relationship to the rest of the house, even when you aren’t smoking, any off gassing would stay in the room. You mentioned that you would close off the return when not smoking. Have one of the exhaust fans wired to a speed control, close the return and turn the fan speed down. This would constantly exhaust just a bit of air, and should help reduce odors to the rest of the house. The down side is it will drive your energy bill up. 


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## ericryd (Dec 5, 2017)

Can any exhaust fan work on a dimmer? I've been trying to figure that out actually. I was worried i'd cause damage to it doing that.


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## Matfam1 (Oct 13, 2017)

... I always buy them as a package from the wholesaler. The dimmer would need to be rated for an inductive load rather than a resistive load; and it would need to be rated at the proper amps or wattage. I suspect that it would be fine. Try it before they rock over everything


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## ericryd (Dec 5, 2017)

Ventilation is all done. Dry wall begins today!

Anyone have suggestions for air purifiers?


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## ericryd (Dec 5, 2017)

We have drywall!


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## Matfam1 (Oct 13, 2017)

ericryd said:


> We have drywall!


That looks great

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## ericryd (Dec 5, 2017)

Matfam1 said:


> That looks great
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Counting days.... Probably about a month left.


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## Stratus (Jan 15, 2018)

Looks like a great project. Working on a similar set-up and I'm also located in the Chicago area too!

Any feedback or advice would be appreciated...in particular regarding ventilation. I have about 300 sqft of area to work with. HVAC is coming later this week. My wife is a gem, but she understandably doesn't want any trace of smoke in the house.


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## selpo (Nov 4, 2015)

ericryd said:


> Can any exhaust fan work on a dimmer? I've been trying to figure that out actually. I was worried i'd cause damage to it doing that.


Nice build!

I would recommend this timer for your exhaust fan- I have it hooked up to a Panasonic exhaust fan to vent off hot air in the summer, going great for the last 10 yrs.

Smart Exhaust Bath Fan Control

Good luck!


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## ericryd (Dec 5, 2017)

Hi all, it’s been a while. I’ve been traveling for work and just in general busy. Our basement should be completed this week. Just some minor work with trim and things, otherwise we are done. 

We did a test smoke (2 of us) last night in the room. We used an exterior door for my door entrance with the build in weather strips. However we have no handles yet so I had to duck tape those. Overall, the room worked great. With the current setup with a 200cfm vent, 2 is a good amount of people. 3-4 max. 

While smoking we could see the smoke stirring in the room, and visibility was impacted. We have no chairs so we were standing. Sitting would have helped. Upon completion for of our smokes, the room cleared smoke in 2-3 minutes. When we walked into the rest of the basement, there was 0 smell. We did a check upstairs and didn’t smell anything either (although we smelled). My wife was in bed and didn’t notice anything.

So far, so good.

To round things out, I ordered a RabbitAir Biogs2 today for air purification. In addition, I ordered an Enerzen 4500mg ozone generator for overnight room cleansing. I’ll probably run that for 20 min after smoking for the evening when I go to bed.

Now, to find furniture. On the hunt for some used/worn leather chairs and a nice executive desk.

I can post a few current pics later and the final product in the next few weeks.


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## Stratus (Jan 15, 2018)

Sounds like your room is coming along nicely. I think the combination of ventilation, air purification and ozone should do the trick. I also added spray foam and a barrier of plastic in my room. 

It's going to be awesome!


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## ericryd (Dec 5, 2017)

And here I am, smoking a tat at 10pm with a good beer watching an episode of Ozark after my sons 3rd birthday in my smoke room/office. No furniture yet, but here we are. 

3rd time smoking here with no leakage in the rest of the house or basement. It’s smokey while smoking, maybe one bigger vent would have been a good idea.

Either way, we’ve made it. Living the dream.

Ps. Door handles get installed tomorrow, ha.


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## PTAaron (Sep 1, 2017)

Very nice!


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## Matfam1 (Oct 13, 2017)

It turned out beautifully. How many cfm did you go with?


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## Shaver702 (Jan 27, 2016)

Living the dream. Jealous.....


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## Westside Threat (Oct 25, 2016)

I’m learning from these threads, you can never have enough exhaust fans.


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## Scotch-n-Stick (Feb 5, 2018)

I've learned from these threads that @Matfam1 is the MAN. Dude, I want to say thank you and it's @ericryd 's project !

I've also learned, once again, that not having a basement sucks. Then again, I'm in Nashville and it was 78 last week so I could just put the top down:grin2:

Overall, nice thread gents.


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## ericryd (Dec 5, 2017)

Matfam1 said:


> It turned out beautifully. How many cfm did you go with?
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


290. I think it's fine for what I need. Only other option was putting a second one of these in. Which I could do later too.


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## Matfam1 (Oct 13, 2017)

I wish I could be there and actually measure it.... 290 cfm should be clearing the air for 1 person, do well for 2 people, and sorta suck for 3. 


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## ericryd (Dec 5, 2017)

Matfam1 said:


> I wish I could be there and actually measure it.... 290 cfm should be clearing the air for 1 person, do well for 2 people, and sorta suck for 3.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


1 was perfect, no problem at all. 2 had some lingering smoke, but when we went and done it was clean within a couple minutes.

We are also sitting on bar stools higher than we normally would. Lower chairs may help when the smoke goes up. I'm thinking 3 will be the most I'd want.


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## Stratus (Jan 15, 2018)

Just wanted to say your room looks awesome! Congrats!


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