# The bigger is better insult



## jmj_203 (Mar 16, 2011)

I know I've seen hundreds of posts questioning why manufacturers to the us market insist in the insane 6x60 sizes but my take is here and hoping a few people in power see this and save the sinking ship of blends in the good ol US of A. 

So anyone smoking for years and many smokers who venture into ALL cigars seem to agree esp here that some of their favorite smokes are in corona, petit corona, lancero even lonsdale. That's unbelievable if you simply look at the for sale items at big online vendors. Here's where my complaint comes in. Read puff or other cigar forums and you will learn that most people say they prefer these small ring size cigars. Look at CI or any online american retailer and look at the cigars being offered as must go clearance items. What sizes are they always? They're disgustingly obese 6x60 or 6x54 fatties. Now yes I have a few days PER YEAR that I would willingly bust out this size but I would NEVER buy a cigar in this size in more than a single at the store.

So my take is that we as regular buyers of cigars and being the ones who support them most of the time are actually a small drop in the bucket compared to the entire country worth of newbs or 1st timers going gift shopping and see this fat ogre size beefstick on the shelf and think "now that's a cigar". Come on are we really outnumbered that much or are mfgrs just saying smoke what we sell and we sell fatties. It makes no sense to me as tobacco for fatties costs much more. Tobacco used in a petit corona is small and miniscule. Or is the tobacco that garbage that you WANT to unload large amounts of it. This is my end rant. Make good coronas, make good lanceros and stop bombarding me with double toros or I think my cigar buying is going to move to a different location with sea water around it. Wake up industry!


----------



## Marcm15 (Aug 5, 2012)

I have only been smoking cigars regularly since 2010 but I find it difficult to smoke a large ring stick. I think its more of a comfort thing then anything else. I frequent a cigar bar and out of the dozens of folks there none are smoking the fat stuff. I don't understand the reasoning behind it but don't think it is a trend that will gain a ton of traction...


----------



## socalocmatt (Dec 22, 2010)

I would simply state: like what you smoke and smoke what you like.

There are some great blends that are larger vitolas. I had a DC a couple days ago. Smoked it for 3 hours and loved it. The cigar before that was a big stick too and enjoyed that as well. Large RG isn't only a US market NC exclusive. There are plenty of larger CCs. Why? Because they have there place. Some people hate most Lanceros. Others love em. Why complain and demand an industry change to what you specifically like? Personally, I'm more of a corona and robusto guy but I have plenty of larger RG smokes that I enjoy and am happy that they are available. I think the greater the options, the better for the hobby as a whole. Variety is one of the many great aspects of this hobby.


----------



## Don_in_Texas (Sep 30, 2011)

If I had to bet money on what is the most popular ring gauge in premium cigars, I think my chances of winning that bet would be pretty good if I picked something in the range of 48 to 52. There are certainly a lot of people that prefer coronas, lonsdales, and lanceros, but I don't believe they make up the majority. What my personal experience has been with the 60 ring smokes is that too many of them suffer in the flavor department. I have had good ones though. Some of my favorite smokes are 54's which I don't consider to be a "Gordo", and most of what I buy falls in the 50 to 54 range.


----------



## The_Chosen_One (Aug 18, 2012)

I heard a B&M shop owner talking that the bigger gauge's are the best sellers, not necessarily to 1st timers or experience smokers but more to the everyday joe. The Wal-Mart shoppers of the world so to speak. I think on some level those guys think cigars are supposed to be fat like that, and they smoke regularly I'm sure, but just aren't into it like most people on this site are into it. 

If that's true it also makes sense that the online retailers always have clear outs on the big gauges as most of those 'average joes' probably primarily shop in B&M stores not online for their cigars. 

Personally, while very inexperienced, I prefer the lancero to robusto sizes.


----------



## kumanchu (Mar 16, 2011)

some blends are good fat, some are good skinny.

i'll smoke what size tastes best to me in any given blend.


----------



## BrunoBlack (Jul 9, 2012)

Gran corona (9.5 long 47 width) right down to mini (4 long 20 wide) all live in my Humidor. Do I like one better than the other NO. 

I smoke based on many factors. If I am out and about and I have 10 minutes I use a small cigar. If its Sunday and I have a few friends round playing snooker and having a drink a petit corona. Sitting smoking on my own reeding my kindle (love books yet this is so much more convenient having 200 books in my hand at once lol) I will probably settle down with a Grand Corona. They all have merits and some small are rubbish and yes even the large ones can be crap.

Its often down to the individual and the time available IMO. I assume that you have problems with some big cheap, horrible cigars over in the USA. I find if you pay the right price you mostly wont be disappointed. It sounds like the people buying these monstrosities neither care or desire to pay for quality. They simply want to be seen smoking a giant cigar, silly buggers.


----------



## capttrips (Jun 25, 2012)

I have tio agree with alot of the posters in that I smoke all kinds of cigars in all shapes and sizes. I prefer torpedoes and robustos, but I have MUWATs and JFRs in my arsenal. I try to look at each cigar as being a new experience. Despite what everyone says: size DOESN't matter. I always try to vary the RG when I buy because a cigar that tastes good in a toro does not necessarily taste good in a robusto. Just MHO.


----------



## capttrips (Jun 25, 2012)

One more thing: According to alot of the reps I've spoken to larger robustos are the preferred RG for new cigar smokers. Just saying that's what I've been told.


----------



## BrunoBlack (Jul 9, 2012)

I suppose the new smokers are still uneducated in what makes a good cigar and assume that bigger must be better. That is a common mistake, in that they see them in movies etc and assume they need to be a foot long. I can not remember seeing a movie cigar under 6 inches long, come to think of it. They probably think a 4 inch cigar would not command respect......Philistines.


----------



## hardcz (Aug 1, 2007)

If they didn't sell, they wouldn't make them. 

I hope someone in the industry learns supply and demand... oh wait...


----------



## Reg (Dec 6, 2010)

hardcz said:


> If they didn't sell, they wouldn't make them.
> 
> I hope someone in the industry learns supply and demand... oh wait...


This seems to be the common response to the question of whether it's the consumer or the manufacturer driving cigar trends. I'm not willing to let the manufacturers off that easy as I think there are scenarios in which it would behoove the manufacturer to produce cigars (large RG cigars, particularly) regardless of demand. It could be something as simple as the need to make storage space available for new/superior tobacco.


----------



## ginomontreal (Sep 1, 2011)

kumanchu said:


> some blends are good fat, some are good skinny.
> 
> i'll smoke what size tastes best to me in any given blend.


I would like to add my own personal opinion to this thread. I love to smoke Thicker Sticks not so much the 60 ring gauge but a 5 x 50\52\54 and yes i do own 60 ring gauge like a uzi.
what i find with the smaller ring gauge is some of them have a very tight draw and i do not enjoy the cigar. but if i do try a cigar that i really enjoy i don't mid what ring gauge it is.
For me it really depends on the cigar.


----------



## naajsmith (Jul 1, 2012)

I am just guessing here, but I would think there are a lot of people out there like me who might smoke one cigar a week or less and then the ones who only smoke on special occasions. (I would be curious to find out what portion of the market is made up of the "special occasion smokers".) For me, this makes the cigar an event unto its self and I want it to last a while, especially if I have found one that really suits my tastes. Besides the time of relaxation is one of my favorite parts of the cigar experience. 

It would make since, to me, that those who are more cigar savvy and smoke them more often would be more open to the smaller vitolas and more frequent smokes. Just a thought.

I am admittedly uneducated in cigars and am definitely hearing what is being said on this forum and plan to broaden my horizons, and since I just got bombed by shuckins I have some smaller vitolas to sample.


----------



## BrunoBlack (Jul 9, 2012)

I smoke cigars and pipes. I will smoke several times a day. I keep it fresh buying many different types of cigars and many types of pipe tobacco. I tend to not smoke the same content in any given week to a fortnight. Yes I have my favourites but this system keeps them fresher and more enjoyable IMO. Even a mediocre cigar is useful in this way, as it makes you appreciate the best ones that bit more.


----------



## ghe-cl (Apr 9, 2005)

Getting back to the original post for this thread, there are several things to comment on. First, you're absolutely right in guessing that smokers who frequent online forums and blogs are a minority among cigar smokers. They may smoke more frequently, but there's no doubt that they constitute a small segment of the cigar market, which isn't very big to start with. If anyone doubts this, just consider the best-selling premium cigars are Macanudo, Romeo y Julieta and Montecristo. As to size, I believe that the robusto and corona sizes are the best selling. But that doesn't mean other sizes don't sell. Large ring gauge cigars have their fans and have been often promoted by small brands seeking to find a niche in the market. All the buzz that the Nub generated when it was introduced some years back also, I think, helped fan the flame for fat ring gauges. There's certainly nothing wrong with big ring gauges in the 60s, any more than there is with ring gauges in the 30s.


----------



## Kevin Keith (Jan 24, 2010)

I just thought about it and all my cigars are 50-54. No coronas, no lanceros, etc. They're all I smoke and I'll betcha there are thousands and thousands more like me. Smoke whatcha like dontcha know.


----------



## snagstangl (Aug 21, 2010)

I dont prefer the larger ring gauge, but I have some and I smoke them. The pro for me is they smoke cooler in some cigars, I have a tendency to over puff and heat up a cigar. I have had a few JFR and I like them, and also the B2's from ci. I did get a bundle of 30 for like 35 bucks, it is fine for smoking half and pitching it. So i think they might be good for a newer smoker who will burn up a small ring gauge. I agree with other posters, I will smoke what tastes good regardless of ring gauge but I am less likely to try big rg cigars. 

Brian, even though its not totally on topic, I appreciate and agree with your comment "Even a mediocre cigar is useful in this way, as it makes you appreciate the best ones that bit more."


----------



## capttrips (Jun 25, 2012)

I'm going to agree again to the comment that we are a miniscule portion of the cigar community. I have a friend who smokes nothing but Davidoff's. Knows absolutely nothing about cigars and admits he smokes them for the name. I have another friend who smokes nothing but the Ashton Eclipse. Won't smoke anything else. I think the true aficianado is more willing to work outside the box and explore different blends, viotolas, etc. I'm not the one paying for your cigars so go ahead and smoke anything you like.


----------



## Bondo 440 (Jul 24, 2012)

I saw a thread here where people were calling corona's "cigarillos" .... I guess, as in "little cigar ( ette ? ) "
I am not saying that is bad to my Puff Brethren here, but as long as that mentality exists ....
I am still Noob and still prefer coronas. double coronas. and a few madoros. And there are a few 54 ring x 7 that I enjoy

All are cigars


----------



## fuente~fuente (May 11, 2009)

They are making them because *they sell*... That is the hot size right now, & as long as that is what the consumer continues to buy, then that is what the manufacturer is going to make... Trust me, they don't like it either. They have to use more tobacco to make them, so they don't make as much $$$ on them. They will also tell you that they think smokes aren't as good in these sizes because they're "watered down" as far as flavor goes.

It's a fad, & it'll fade a bit in time...


----------



## Bondo 440 (Jul 24, 2012)

fuente~fuente said:


> They are making them because *they sell*... That is the hot size right now, & as long as that is what the consumer continues to buy, then that is what the manufacturer is going to make... Trust me, they don't like it either. They have to use more tobacco to make them, so they don't make as much $$$ on them. They will also tell you that they think smokes aren't as good in these sizes because they're "watered down" as far as flavor goes.
> 
> It's a fad, & it'll fade a bit in time...


Do remember, supersizing is not more expensive. Ask yourself why bulk is cheaper. Once the equipment, labor, package, advertising, and customer .. is already there. Ask McDonalds. For 32 cents more, they'll give you a 64 oz soda. It's the sale alone, that makes the money. 
You supersize, you sell more in sales than standard size. You make more money, not lose it.

So with that said, Yes, They are making them _*because they sell,*_ would be correct. Pure and simple. 
And I also would agree market preferences will change over time.


----------



## fuente~fuente (May 11, 2009)

Bondo 440 said:


> Do remember, supersizing is not more expensive. Ask yourself why bulk is cheaper. Once the equipment, labor, package, advertising, and customer .. is already there. Ask McDonalds. For 32 cents more, they'll give you a 64 oz soda. It's the sale alone, that makes the money.
> You supersize, you sell more in sales than standard size. You make more money, not lose it.
> 
> So with that said, Yes, They are making them _*because they sell,*_ would be correct. Pure and simple.
> And I also would agree market preferences will change over time.


So do you think one of the most prominent figures in the cigar making industry who told me this is wrong? He's got nothing to gain by telling me this... Not trying to argue with you, just saying... This came from the horses mouth... A big vertically integrated farm horse. :thumb:


----------



## Kevin Keith (Jan 24, 2010)

fuente~fuente said:


> So do you think one of the most prominent figures in the cigar making industry who told me this is wrong? He's got nothing to gain by telling me this... Not trying to argue with you, just saying... This came from the horses mouth... A big vertically integrated farm horse. :thumb:


Does he make an IMI clone that has substantial weight?


----------



## hardcz (Aug 1, 2007)

fuente~fuente said:


> So do you think one of the most prominent figures in the cigar making industry who told me this is wrong? He's got nothing to gain by telling me this... Not trying to argue with you, just saying... This came from the horses mouth... A big vertically integrated farm horse. :thumb:


If they didn't sell, then they wouldn't make more..because shops wouldn't buy new stock, they'd be stuck with the old stock. In shops there are plenty of smaller RG sticks to choose from. Hell the super huge RG sticks are in the minority there.

I was sitting at the smoke shop today during lunch smoking a hemingway, and a guy who frequents there picked out a huge 60RG stick. I asked him why he picked the large one, and he said he likes the taste. He commonly smokes 50ish RG sticks in the past, I've never seen him with a smaller stick.

It's just what he likes. When I started smoking heavily, I thought the larger RG sticks were a better bargain, so I bought them, as did my friends, as do a lot of newbies in this hobby. I would say that is sales. The demand is there, so the manufacturers supply them. Some of it is fad, some of it is straight up marketing, and some is demand.

There is no denying that.

Don't know what kind of contacts you have that you get to rub elbows with prominent figures in teh cigar making industry, though it's more than I have. I'm just a douche who has a few cigars that enjoys the hobby and notices things from time to time.

Also hope you don't see this or some other posts as an attack on your person, looks like a good debate here. IMO try backing up some of your statements with more facts or insight that's more than hearsay and you'll probably have a better response.

- The Grumpy Gorilla


----------



## fuente~fuente (May 11, 2009)

No, I don't feel I'm being "attacked" here... Don't get me wrong... I am nobody, & nor do I think am anybody in the cigar business. I do get to talk & "rub elbows" to a lot of cigar makers though, & I value _their_ hearsay more than someone who is not in the cigar industry.


----------



## fuente~fuente (May 11, 2009)

Kevin Keith said:


> Does he make an IMI clone that has substantial weight?


I get it! And this weight just so happens to be a ton right? :lol:

Not him, but he's definitely someone I WOULD listen too! :nod:


----------



## Ken Hastings (Jun 28, 2012)

Too many people get insulted by too little these days. As a business owner I'm siding with the cigar companies on this. They are risking the very existence of their business by bringing to market what they feel will sell. If you don't like it, you're free to follow in Jonathan Drew's footsteps and start a cigar empire from nothing.


----------



## Kevin Keith (Jan 24, 2010)

fuente~fuente said:


> I get it! And this weight just so happens to be a ton right? :lol:
> 
> Not him, but he's definitely someone I WOULD listen too! :nod:


ding,ding, ding...winner, winner chicken dinner!


----------



## Quine (Nov 9, 2011)

There are times when the availability (or lack thereof) of vitolas I prefer will skew my purchases. Mostly I drift in the robusto, corona, lancero direction and vitolas in between these (corona gorda). It's a rare afternoon or evening when I have time for a 90+ min smoke, but I do have a few classic torpedoes, big toros, and perfectos which tend to be the best rested cigars in my stash because I reach for them so rarely. When D.E. Undercrowns first came along I thought they were delicious, but their smallest vitola was a bigger than traditional robusto and while I bought a few of these, I never did spring for a box because I just didn't want so many large sticks. There must have been other calls on them to come up with something a little smaller as the recently released "corona viva" (a classic gorda size) attests, and a box was duly ordered.

Spending time in a few different B&Ms with decent lounges, I've watched people buy and smoke singles of all sizes. Some people don't smoke anywhere but in their local shop's lounge and those folks come prepared for a 2 hour process!


----------



## booyaka (Aug 11, 2010)

I'm a robusto guy, if im going to try a new cigar i'm going to try the 5X50 first, then if i like it I may move up to the toro and down to a corona or similar just to see if i still like it.


----------



## jswaykos (Oct 26, 2010)

I've spoken with a few tobacco shop owners, and all say that BY FAR the biggest selling vitola is 60rg (or similarly large) and it's not even close.


----------



## Avenidadecuba (Jul 27, 2012)

socalocmatt said:


> I would simply state: like what you smoke and smoke what you like.
> 
> There are some great blends that are larger vitolas. I had a DC a couple days ago. Smoked it for 3 hours and loved it. The cigar before that was a big stick too and enjoyed that as well. Large RG isn't only a US market NC exclusive. There are plenty of larger CCs. Why? Because they have there place. Some people hate most Lanceros. Others love em. Why complain and demand an industry change to what you specifically like? Personally, I'm more of a corona and robusto guy but I have plenty of larger RG smokes that I enjoy and am happy that they are available. I think the greater the options, the better for the hobby as a whole. Variety is one of the many great aspects of this hobby.


Agreed!


----------



## LuvMaduros (Aug 24, 2012)

If I've got the time to devote to it then I will grab the larger ring gauge just about every time. I like them and have a couple of 60 rg that I smoke on a regular basis. If the smoke is good then 3 hours worth is better. I rarely buy anything under 50 rg and if my smoking time is under 2 hours then a 460 or 464 NUB is usually my first choice. If it isn't any good then I'm not going to buy it again but the first try I give a new one is 50+.


----------



## baddddmonkey (Oct 13, 2008)

I don't generally like the bigger RG cigars as stated in here. Like the 6x60s and whatnot. I don't find them easy to smoke personally. I enjoy the smaller sizes of cigars...robustos and coronas for example. I may have a churchill once in awhile, and would smoke a bigger cigar if I was gifted or bomb one. I just wouldn't typically go out of my way to get a couple of them is all.


----------



## smokin surfer (Jul 21, 2012)

Well I am a noob, less than one full year dedicated to the hobby not counting one night stands over the decades.. and I have always just smoked what I like. I was faithful to Camel no-filters with a passion, because their flavor, the easy draw. Not because there was a camel on the package or because I saw Johnny Dep light one up in some flick.

Being a bigger guy, a 6x60 just fits right between my fingers and I feel like I am in for a nice long period of enjoyment, indulgence I call it. I will buy all the 54+ rg's when given a choice. Granted my palate is not so particular or jaded as some others' may be, but I'm having one hell of a good time with my big ol' smoke!


----------



## Eleigh (Jun 8, 2012)

I think large rg smokes cooler generally, meaning they are easier for noobs like myself to smoke without overheating them. They are harder to light though...


----------



## Engineer99 (Aug 4, 2011)

I like em in all sizes and good cigars come in all sizes. I will never not smoke a cigar because it over a certain RG. 

If a company makes the 6x60, and sells them, that company stays in business to make other cigars that may be of a smaller RG and would please even more people of which I include myself. There have been numerous examples of cigars that were previously only available in the 52+RG scaled down to the various smaller sizes in order to suit those of us who like the petit coronas, coronas, lonsdales, and panatelas.

There is so much choice out there right now and smokers, whatever their preference in RG, wrapper, country of origin, blender, or any of the multitude of variables that exist, can always find what they're looking for.


----------



## Cigar Noob (May 22, 2011)

socalocmatt said:


> Some people hate most Lanceros. Others love em. Why complain and demand an industry change to what you specifically like? Personally, I'm more of a corona and robusto guy but I have plenty of larger RG smokes that I enjoy and am happy that they are available. I think the greater the options, the better for the hobby as a whole. Variety is one of the many great aspects of this hobby.


Do they hate them or just not think they are manly enough? I would say the casual/poser/noob would shy away from them because they don't look like the stereotypical cigar you grow up seeing. Might have to blame this on the media!



The_Chosen_One said:


> I heard a B&M shop owner talking that the bigger gauge's are the best sellers, not necessarily to 1st timers or experience smokers but more to the everyday joe. The Wal-Mart shoppers of the world so to speak. I think on some level those guys think cigars are supposed to be fat like that, and they smoke regularly I'm sure, but just aren't into it like most people on this site are into it.


This happens in all areas of the marketplace and the cigar business is not immune to this. The best selling beer is Budweiser. Would anyone actually consider that either a) beer or b) good? People are looking to get a buzz and don't care. 90% of smokers are looking for a buzz whether it be to look cool with a giant phallic item hanging out of their mouth, or to buy some brand because it shares the same name as one of Cuba, or whatever reason they have that doesn't involve the actual quality of the item.



fuente~fuente said:


> They have to use more tobacco to make them, so they don't make as much $$$ on them.


What does it cost to actually make a cigar? 50 cents? $1? I think charging a few bucks more for a churchill vs a corona which cost them 10 cents more to make yields them either the same profit margin or a higher one since a higher priced cigar yields more profit since both carry the same fixed costs. I think they love it. Big cigars are easy to make so they don't need to have top notch rollers. They get more money from sales, and spend less in labor.


----------



## exprime8 (May 16, 2011)

I like them big... I like them small... I like them all... variety is the spice of life!!!


----------



## smokin surfer (Jul 21, 2012)

Cigar Noob said:


> Do they hate them or just not think they are manly enough? I would say the casual/poser/noob would shy away from them because they don't look like the stereotypical cigar you grow up seeing. Might have to blame this on the media!
> 
> This happens in all areas of the marketplace and the cigar business is not immune to this. The best selling beer is Budweiser. Would anyone actually consider that either a) beer or b) good? People are looking to get a buzz and don't care. 90% of smokers are looking for a buzz whether it be to look cool with a giant phallic item hanging out of their mouth, or to buy some brand because it shares the same name as one of Cuba, or whatever reason they have that doesn't involve the actual quality of the item.
> 
> What does it cost to actually make a cigar? 50 cents? $1? I think charging a few bucks more for a churchill vs a corona which cost them 10 cents more to make yields them either the same profit margin or a higher one since a higher priced cigar yields more profit since both carry the same fixed costs. I think they love it. Big cigars are easy to make so they don't need to have top notch rollers. They get more money from sales, and spend less in labor.


A) If I were affected by the media, a lancero is the *no brainer.. being a man's man, like Clint Eastwood. Are you sure you have not been unduely influenced?

B) Very few cigars are giant when compared to what I consider phallic proportions. Perhaps for some, many cigars are...

C) I have it on good authority, from Havana.. that the largest vitolas are hand crafted only by their most tenured and expert Torcedores. They are the most difficult to make.

All in the nature of debate, mind you -


----------



## RAW (Apr 27, 2011)

Bryan Glynn at cigarobsession recently ranted in one of his reviews about this very thing. I cant post a link yet. it is the Rocky Patel Gladiator.


----------



## Eleigh (Jun 8, 2012)

exprime8 said:


> I like them big... I like them small... I like them all... variety is the spice of life!!!


+1. It all depends on so many factors what rg or viola to pick for a given smoking session!


----------



## Cigar Noob (May 22, 2011)

smokin surfer said:


> A) If I were affected by the media, a lancero is the *no brainer.. being a man's man, like Clint Eastwood. Are you sure you have not been unduely influenced?
> 
> B) Very few cigars are giant when compared to what I consider phallic proportions. Perhaps for some, many cigars are...
> 
> ...


a) The "manly" comment is stuff I see on here. Eastwood who? Of course I'm being fecicious but let's stop pretending that the target demo has any idea who he is, or that he smoked in a movie 30-40 years ago. (Check out my just smoked... that is what I prefer.)

b)  Check out the JFR 7x70 and then report back.

c) Lancero is the hardest cigar to make for several reasons, and is typically the lowest RG. There is plenty of information and articles about that floating around. I've never seen anything that claims a 6x60 is hard (considering Havana doesn't make those I'm not sure how they could weigh in on a jawbreaker discussion), but am always interested in checking out source material unless it is one of those cousin's brother's aunt's type connections.


----------



## Kevin Keith (Jan 24, 2010)

exprime8 said:


> I like them big... I like them small... I like them all... variety is the spice of life!!!


We're still talkin' about cigars, right? heh heh


----------



## Mante (Dec 25, 2009)

Kevin Keith said:


> We're still talkin' about cigars, right? heh heh


Nope. I heard "phallic proportions" mentioned & then 7 x 70. That doesn't even earn a guy a man card around here. ound:


----------



## Steel Talon (Mar 2, 2010)

I enjoy smoking big ol chunks


----------



## smokin surfer (Jul 21, 2012)

I must alter my claim; it is the larger figurados and torpedo types that require the skills of a veteran torquedor. Usually women with small hands


----------



## Irish Cannon (Feb 25, 2011)

I have to admit that when I was younger and first started smoking cigars (I won't mention the age ) I fell victim to the "bigger is better" thing, but that seems to be how it goes when you're young, as with everything else. I was even heavily involved in bodybuilding and the like, which actually took me some cool places in life.

Now that I'm in my mid-20's, I sunk into smoking coronas and powerlifting. I'm at a low weight, strong as hell, and love small cigars. 

Occasionally I smoke bigger cigars, such as a Cain 654T or something, but I usually prefer lancero or corona. There is something classic about it, and you can't beat the punch you get from them. I smoke pretty slow, so I make them last. I smoked an AF Exquisito Maduro yesterday for 40 mins.


----------



## MitchellF (Oct 15, 2004)

My personal favorite size has always been a Corona (42 - 46 Ring Gauge) I will smoke Robustos becuase that is what I find on sale most of the time. If I do buy a Robusto size cigar I keep it at or below a 54 Ring Gauge. When I smoke the larger sizes I feel that I am committed to finish it. It can take a long time to finish and I may have other things to do. The smaller Corona demands less time, and it is just the right size that it does not require a super tight binder and wrapper and has a good draw. The flavor profile can come out in a Corona easily. The thing I am noticing is that it is getting more difficult to find a good Corona. Many of the new cigar lines and blends consist of Robusto or larger ring gauges only neglecting those of us who still love the Corona. One last thing, if the Corona size is good enough for Arturo Fuente it is good enough for me. Most of their premium blend cigars such as the Opus line are largely Coronas or sometimes smaller. Also look at the Classic Davidoff sizing. These companies have not forgotten the Corona smoker but you better have the jack when you search them out!


----------



## Nathan King (Nov 4, 2010)

I dislike the very large vitolas for several reasons:

1. First and foremost is that I am a very slow smoker and rarely have the three to four hours of uninterrupted leisure time it takes to finish something like a 6 x 60.

2. I find that puffing on such a large cigar becomes uncomfortable after a half an hour. 

3. Most cigar blends don't have the complexity to keep me wanting more after a few hours.

4. With blends that do taste better in a bigger ring gauge a torpedo is preferred.

5. There is nothing elegant about smoking a baseball bat.


----------



## Damselnotindistress (Aug 7, 2011)

I'm highly partial to lonsdales, coronas and pyramides. I'm always intrigued by persons who LOVE robustos and lanceros; to me, I can't see how any flavor is able to be obtained from those two sizes, yet they enjoy a huge following. Does anyone remember how the larger churchill and double corona sizes from yesteryear had a tendency to be underfilled, and the smaller petite sizes seemed to suffer plug problems... like the manufacturers skimped and overcompensated with both those sizes? Among the Habanos market it seems that the lonsdales and pyramide sizes are being steadily phased out, except with Partagas, Cuaba, and maybe Bolivar. And I REALLY MISS my El Rey Del Mundo, Ramon Allones, and Por Larranaga dalias! out:


----------



## Loggerhead (Dec 18, 2011)

I find the larger rg much more difficult to get a good draw and "handle" on the flavour.

The question is (and forgive me if it has already been answered), with the two sizes (smaller versus larger), all other things being equal, which size gives the most enjoyment, i.e., the purest cigar experience? Flavour, subtleties,aroma, complexity, buzz, satisfaction and yes that indefinable quality of "I'm smoking a cigar so my taste must be refined" look?


----------



## socalocmatt (Dec 22, 2010)

Loggerhead said:


> I find the larger rg much more difficult to get a good draw and "handle" on the flavour.
> 
> The question is (and forgive me if it has already been answered), with the two sizes (smaller versus larger), all other things being equal, which size gives the most enjoyment, i.e., the purest cigar experience? Flavour, subtleties,aroma, complexity, buzz, satisfaction and yes that indefinable quality of "I'm smoking a cigar so my taste must be refined" look?


Depends on the cigar and the person smoking it. Best thing about this hobby is that it is very subjective.


----------



## Bondo 440 (Jul 24, 2012)

jmj_203 said:


> I know I've seen hundreds of posts questioning why manufacturers to the us market insist in the insane 6x60 sizes but my take is here and hoping a few people in power see this and save the sinking ship of blends in the good ol US of A.
> 
> So anyone smoking for years and many smokers who venture into ALL cigars seem to agree esp here that some of their favorite smokes are in corona, petit corona, lancero even lonsdale. That's unbelievable if you simply look at the for sale items at big online vendors. Here's where my complaint comes in. Read puff or other cigar forums and you will learn that most people say they prefer these small ring size cigars. Look at CI or any online american retailer and look at the cigars being offered as must go clearance items. What sizes are they always? They're disgustingly obese 6x60 or 6x54 fatties. Now yes I have a few days PER YEAR that I would willingly bust out this size but I would NEVER buy a cigar in this size in more than a single at the store.
> 
> So my take is that we as regular buyers of cigars and being the ones who support them most of the time are actually a small drop in the bucket compared to the entire country worth of newbs or 1st timers going gift shopping and see this fat ogre size beefstick on the shelf and think "now that's a cigar". Come on are we really outnumbered that much or are mfgrs just saying smoke what we sell and we sell fatties. It makes no sense to me as tobacco for fatties costs much more. Tobacco used in a petit corona is small and miniscule. Or is the tobacco that garbage that you WANT to unload large amounts of it. This is my end rant. Make good coronas, make good lanceros and stop bombarding me with double toros or I think my cigar buying is going to move to a different location with sea water around it. Wake up industry!


OK I was in this debate earlier but dropped out. Just pretend you are in meeting here. No hard feelings. Just what's the deal here. (by the way, JMJ I am agreeing with you) Everyone please Take the following as a joke. Just insight.

1- Man in Chair #1 notices Gigar Mfgs are promoting bigger cigars, bundles, discounts, ect, The new "Rexcalibre" is huge, and comes with a dinosaur tooth.
2- Man in chair #2 says he overheard an industy insider claim the manufacturers are "making bigger cigars, at less profit because it is what the customer wants"
3- Main in chair #3 wonders how the insider doesn't consider that larger cigars pack more efficiently, reducing packaging, shipping, and delivery costs, _cost the customer more_, and why is "large is better" working in other industries ? Like all business plans, if they are doing something, there is a deliberate reason.
4- Man in chair #4 brings past legislation to the table, pointing to lost market share and increased taxation on smaller cigars.
5- Man in chair #5 suggests we immediatly promote larger cigars, and suggests within 6 months, 80% of our production and market share, is in larger ring cigars, To protect us from the next wave of taxation, broaden the gap between our smaller cigars and our stogies. 
They aggree to call the new plan "operation moat"

6- New plan: Promote large cigars, discount large cigars, coupons on large cigars, models with large cigars. Tell your people it's what the public wants. Like it would be the first time promoters were telling you what's cool what you want?

Hate me, I don'T care. But is it possible we NEED to be smoking larger cigars? Or we are all doomed? Nice pilot for a movie I guess.


----------



## smokin surfer (Jul 21, 2012)

What this thread needs is models with big cigars. Give me the weekend, I'm on it!


----------



## z0diac (May 18, 2010)

Toro is my favorite size. Anything around 6 to 6.5" and 50+ ring.  6x54 would probably be my perfect cigar size.

But anything bigger and I can't find time to smoke them. I'm not someone who can just 'set aside' an afternoon to smoke a 2hr churchill. Usually even robustos are too big for the time I have.


----------



## Bondo 440 (Jul 24, 2012)

z0diac said:


> Toro is my favorite size. Anything around 6 to 6.5" and 50+ ring.  6x54 would probably be my perfect cigar size.
> 
> But anything bigger and I can't find time to smoke them. I'm not someone who can just 'set aside' an afternoon to smoke a 2hr churchill. Usually even robustos are too big for the time I have.


Shorties during the weekdays. But #42 - #54 on the weekend. I don't smoke inside so that's gonna be a problem in the winter though.



smokin surfer said:


> What this thread needs is models with big cigars. Give me the weekend, I'm on it!


LOL


----------



## z0diac (May 18, 2010)

Bondo 440 said:


> * I don't smoke inside* so that's gonna be a problem in the winter though.


Yah I don't smoke inside either which is why my smoking time is really limited. The best times for a good long smoke are actually on the long highway drive up to the cottage. Although with fall coming up, that means hockey season, and I have to get to the arena parking lot a good 1hr before the game starts which provides excellent cigar-smoking time


----------



## Nafod81 (Aug 6, 2012)

When I first started I found I preferred a mid range ring guage. Sixty was two big and less than 40 was too small. I've since refined my desirable ring guage down to a maximum of 54. 

However more recently I'm finding certain blends (Undercrown, H Uppmann Sungrown) that I'd prefer in the smaller Corona size.


----------



## Rays98GoVols (Sep 22, 2008)

jmj_203 said:


> I know I've seen hundreds of posts questioning why manufacturers to the us market insist in the insane 6x60 sizes but my take is here and hoping a few people in power see this and save the sinking ship of blends in the good ol US of A.
> 
> So anyone smoking for years and many smokers who venture into ALL cigars seem to agree esp here that some of their favorite smokes are in corona, petit corona, lancero even lonsdale. That's unbelievable if you simply look at the for sale items at big online vendors. Here's where my complaint comes in. Read puff or other cigar forums and you will learn that most people say they prefer these small ring size cigars. Look at CI or any online american retailer and look at the cigars being offered as must go clearance items. What sizes are they always? They're disgustingly obese 6x60 or 6x54 fatties. Now yes I have a few days PER YEAR that I would willingly bust out this size but I would NEVER buy a cigar in this size in more than a single at the store.
> 
> So my take is that we as regular buyers of cigars and being the ones who support them most of the time are actually a small drop in the bucket compared to the entire country worth of newbs or 1st timers going gift shopping and see this fat ogre size beefstick on the shelf and think "now that's a cigar". Come on are we really outnumbered that much or are mfgrs just saying smoke what we sell and we sell fatties. It makes no sense to me as tobacco for fatties costs much more. Tobacco used in a petit corona is small and miniscule. Or is the tobacco that garbage that you WANT to unload large amounts of it. This is my end rant. Make good coronas, make good lanceros and stop bombarding me with double toros or I think my cigar buying is going to move to a different location with sea water around it. Wake up industry!


I've seen this rant before. While I will not dismiss it entirely, I will offer my 2 cents. Smoke what you like and don't worry about the Cigar Industry. They are making what is selling the most, and what is being demanded the most. IF this was not true, the big ring gauge cigars would sit on the shelves and not be sold. It's simple 'supply and demand'. While I respect ALL cigar smokers, I am a '47 - 54' rg smoker. I've had tons of PC's Coronas and Londales, they are not for me. I do not smoke any cigar over 54-56 unless I want to try that cigar, and that's the only size it comes in. I am lucky enough that when I sit down and smoke, I have time to enjoy a big rg Cigar. I've never enjoyed the flavors of the smaller rg Cigars, plus they don't last long enough and I find myself smoking 2 or 3 in a given night. It's probably me and I do not know 'how to smoke' a smaller rg Cigar. But it is what it is...I also do not believe it is a giant conspiracy to unload 'Garbage' tobacco that noone wants. The market would know and simply not buy that cigar. Someone would 'cut one open' on YouTube and the sales of that Cigar would die. Also please be careful about the derogatory remarks like 'disgustingly obese', some people WILL be offended by that remark. You would not want to perferred size called a 'chick Cigar, efeminite, sissy Cigar, etc.....we are all BOTL's please do not forget that. 
P.S. Your 'different location with sea water around it', for the last few years is also moving to larger RG cigars and dropping smaller RG cigars that are not selling that well. Most of their Limited Edition and Regional Editions are in the Corona Gorda size and up. While you may like them and the people to associate with may like them (which is great), they are not selling well worldwide. THEY (CC's) cannot afford to produce ANYTHING that is not selling, they cannot afford to....


----------



## Steel Talon (Mar 2, 2010)

^^^ Well stated Ray.... spot on..
Good Karma
Tal~


----------



## fuente~fuente (May 11, 2009)

Rays98GoVols said:


> I also do not believe it is a giant conspiracy to unload 'Garbage' tobacco that noone wants.


Now remember, this is just hearsay mind you, but... I was just talking to another gentleman last night, who also owns a cigar company, & this came up again. His exact words were "I can make two good cigars for the amount of tobacco it takes to make one 60 RG. If the market didn't want them, I probably wouldn't waste my time on them."

Now I'm in the corner of "smoke what you like, like what you smoke" for sure, & I'm def not going to knock anyone who does, as I also smoke larger RG stuff too. I'm not going to get into world tobacco conspiracy theories either. :lol:


----------



## Bondo 440 (Jul 24, 2012)

z0diac said:


> Yah I don't smoke inside either which is why my smoking time is really limited. The best times for a good long smoke are actually on the long highway drive up to the cottage. Although with fall coming up, that means hockey season, and I have to get to the arena parking lot a good 1hr before the game starts which provides excellent cigar-smoking time


Yep. On weekdays my smoking lounge is the car ride home. 
So I like those 40 minute smokes. Spent $45 today on Padron, Quorum, Carribean Rum Runners. My "go-to's"
I go through them faster than the stogies. So I made my donation to the "save the Coronna "fund today. Feels good LOL
Grabed a Java too. Just for my infusion sweet tooth.

Good debate guys, interesting viewpoints. And there are a lot of factors here to consider. 
I do however have the uncanny feeling we are trying to nail something down that is not yet done evolving. 
And since it is a tobaccco industry, I am not surprised. I really feel the answers will come within the next 16 months or so.

You are a quality crew. Fight the good fight, and smoke on, Bretheren.


----------



## cool hand luke (Jul 28, 2012)

i like a 48-52 ring, but thats what i like. If somebody out there likes a 60 ring well good for them. I"m just glad there"s a big variety out there. I get bored with the same thing day after day and i like to change it up from time 2 time. a while back a friend stopped by the house with a couple a 60's and we had a nice smoke together. i like a big variety in my humi at all times...Just sayin


----------



## GIBrett (Jul 29, 2012)

I don't mind the flavors in most of the bigger RG cigars. What deters me from them is that I find them uncomfortable to keep in my mouth. I prefer a 50/52 RG


----------



## totti 10 (Mar 18, 2009)

I actually have been wondering the same thing
Why is it so hard to get a petit corona size for NC.
they always come with >52 size.

It's not that I don't like the size but I only have 2hours smoking time during the weekend, and I would rather smoke 2 different cigars
rather than 1 long and boring 2 hour smoke


----------



## jheiliger (May 12, 2012)

I prefer to stay below 54rg. Like others have said, for me they have a better mouth feel and smoke easier. I have had less issues with burn consistency/construction in the smaller sizes.

But I say smoke what you like, and like what you smoke! That's what this hobby is about! 

I think our differences make us stronger as a group, not weaker! BOTL's unite...


----------



## thegunslinger (Aug 3, 2012)

As a relative newbie, I've not got as much experience as others. Most of my smokes have been in the 50-54 RG range and I like them. I've had a few 60 RG cigars which I didn't enjoy very much.

One thing I read is that the RG of a cigar determines the ratio of wrapper leaf (where the primary flavors come from) to filler/binder leaf. Since the wrapper usually lends much of the flavor to a cigar, the higher RG cigars with their lower ratio won't have as much flavoring as the smaller vitolas. I guess this is the "watering down" a poster mentioned earlier.


----------



## fuente~fuente (May 11, 2009)

thegunslinger said:


> As a relative newbie, I've not got as much experience as others. Most of my smokes have been in the 50-54 RG range and I like them. I've had a few 60 RG cigars which I didn't enjoy very much.
> 
> One thing I read is that the RG of a cigar determines the ratio of wrapper leaf (where the primary flavors come from) to filler/binder leaf. Since the wrapper usually lends much of the flavor to a cigar, the higher RG cigars with their lower ratio won't have as much flavoring as the smaller vitolas. I guess this is the "watering down" a poster mentioned earlier.


You are cooooorrrrect...


----------



## Quine (Nov 9, 2011)

thegunslinger said:


> One thing I read is that the RG of a cigar determines the ratio of wrapper leaf (where the primary flavors come from) to filler/binder leaf. Since the wrapper usually lends much of the flavor to a cigar, the higher RG cigars with their lower ratio won't have as much flavoring as the smaller vitolas. I guess this is the "watering down" a poster mentioned earlier.


This is a bit misleading. Yes the RG determines the ratio of wrapper (together with binder since there is only 1 of each and the filler is rolled into them both) to filler, but the filler leaves are not just an afterthought flavor-wise... The filler tobacco need not be as aesthetically flawless as the wrapper but it can still be very flavorful. There can only be one wrapper leaf (ok excluding barber-poll and other very fancy and uncommon designs), but the blending of the fillers makes all kinds of flavors possible, and often those are the very flavors (blended with the binder/wrapper) that you want to taste! Even in a corona, the wrapper contributes only a fraction of the over-all flavor (albeit a somewhat bigger fraction than in a 60+rg stick) of the cigar. Apart from the flavors that wrappers do impart to the smoke, it is the blend of the fillers that determine most of what you are tasting. I suppose some people prefer bigger RGs because they want the wrapper to get out of the way as much as possible. This may be one of the reasons (pure speculation on my part) why D.E. for example makes most of their sticks bigger than the vitola names usually imply. They want you to taste their filler blends!


----------



## fuente~fuente (May 11, 2009)

Quine said:


> This is a bit misleading. Yes the RG determines the ratio of wrapper (together with binder since there is only 1 of each and the filler is rolled into them both) to filler, but the filler leaves are not just an afterthought flavor-wise... The filler tobacco need not be as aesthetically flawless as the wrapper but it can still be very flavorful. There can only be one wrapper leaf (ok excluding barber-poll and other very fancy and uncommon designs), but the blending of the fillers makes all kinds of flavors possible, and often those are the very flavors (blended with the binder/wrapper) that you want to taste! Even in a corona, the wrapper contributes only a fraction of the over-all flavor (albeit a somewhat bigger fraction than in a 60+rg stick) of the cigar. Apart from the flavors that wrappers do impart to the smoke, it is the blend of the fillers that determine most of what you are tasting. I suppose some people prefer bigger RGs because they want the wrapper to get out of the way as much as possible. This may be one of the reasons (pure speculation on my part) why D.E. for example makes most of their sticks bigger than the vitola names usually imply. They want you to taste their filler blends!


You are correct as well, but if you make a cigar with the same basic blend, the smaller RG stick with less Seco & Volado will be more potent flavor wise than the larger. That's why when you smoke, say a cigarillo, you get that initial flavor blast to your palate, but smoking it in a larger vitola will offer more subtle flavors & undertones, due to, like you mentioned, more filler flavor.

I get what your saying, & agree, but the premise of the above is correct.


----------



## notmYJ (Sep 27, 2011)

Personally for me, I favor the Robusto 5.5"x55. Had a few Toros that I also enjoy i.e. Perdomo Champagne Noir Toro 6"x60. When I have a choice, the Robusto will get the nod.


----------



## ssaka (Oct 28, 2007)

There is so much in this thread that I literally could talk for an hour plus... and type for 4!

I can't do it, so here is a very "Reader's Digest" version:

1. Manufacturers make what consumers want to buy - plain and simple. We are in the cigar BUSINESS.

2. The most popular selling sizes in the US currently are robust and toro ranging from 5 to 6 inches in length with a girth between 50 - 54.

3. Pre-1980, the corona and lonsdale were the most popular vitolas.

4. Today the number of consumers purchasing corona and corona gordas is relatively tiny and the lonsdale and lancero market, regardless of what you may read online, is infintesimally tiny.

5. There has been a bit of increase interest lately in smaller formats, but it has still not become a trend by any measure.

6. People that read and post about cigars online are an extremely small part of the cigar consuming public. The convention wisdom espoused online is not held by the general handmade cigar consuming public. We are the uber-geeks of cigardom - just learn to embrace the fact... Be proud of it - I know I am, but I am also very cognizant of the fact that we are not typical cigar consumer. Heck the typical cigar smoker doesn't read magazines about cigars, has no clue what is new, and relies tremendously on the guidance of some pimpled face clerk who is clock watching so they can play their Xbox360... wait a minute, I like my Xbox360.... well you know what I mean. ;>

7. Small cigars can deliver an entirely different smoking experience. I personally love them - on the other hand it is very rare I like a format over 54 - the FFP is one of the very few.

8. Lanceros are the most difficult to handcraft due to their very narrow girth and long length. They are also difficult to blend properly.

9. Gorditos such as the 6 x 60 parejo are also diffiicult due to their girth - like with a lancero, the bunchero must have very large hands which is not very common in the Latino cultures where most handmade cigars are rolled. Also they are difficult to blend to get a enough body and a good even combustion given how much cooler they actually burn.

9. So cigars at both ends of the extremes girth wise are difficult to manufacture correctly albeit for different reasons.

10. Part of the issue however is consumer ignorance when it comes to cost - it does NOT cost significantly less to make smaller formats!!! You can read exactly what I am talking about in the very first post that started this thread.

11. Think of it like making a box - all boxes have 6 sides, all require the same number of cuts, all have the same number of joints to assemble - the only difference is the linear board feet, but ultimately the exact same work must be done to make a 4" square box vs and 8" square box. However consumers are typically unwilling to pay - they just naturally assume the one that lasts an hour and half should be more than double in cost, but this is a fallacy.

12. So what we manufacturers do is make cigars as an entire line of vitolas from small to big - we must anyways because we can not just buy long tobacco - we get small and large leaves out of every crop and we must find a suitable home for them all. Then what we do is figure out what it costs in total to make all the cigars necessary and we then set the prices on the all the vitolas as an interdependent group - each relies on the other in order to return the needed margin. You the consumer end up paying $10 for the typical Double Corona and $5 for the typical Corona are are ok with it because you feel you are getting a fair value given how long these respective cigars smoke for, but the reality is the Double Corona smoker is helping to subsidize the Corona smoker. In a true costing sense, the Corona should be about $7 and the Double Corona should be $8 - but if we did this then even fewer people would buy the Corona which would be a disaster as we then would be unable to utilize the smaller leaves which would ultimately make the Double Corona even more expensive to the end consumer.

13. Don't feel bad about not knowing that, very few people do - including most of the people in the cigar business. But think about it and you will realize that what I am telling you makes absolute sense...

14. Since there has been so little interest in the smaller formats for so long most makers have not really focused as hard on blending them, so regretfully many of the old standby traditional coronas are lackluster and were made more for large/small leaf issue and the economics of it. However recently a few makers have started to focus on making better smaller ring blends.

15. Case in point, our LP Dirty Rat - there is no larger formats so all the cost of making this dedicated blend in the small size must be 100% paid for by its sales alone - and viola' you have a $12 Corona. That is why my attitude from day one was they will either sell at the price they need to be or we would just stop making them - it may sound callous, but we are not a charity - I love the Dirty Rat to smoke, but that doesn't mean we have to sell them as I could just keep having them make small batches for ourselves.

16. So in short all of those 6 x 60 cigars that sell are actually helping you the small vitola consumer get far better pricing on each and every cigar. You should actually be happy about the fact that these are popular! Cause when they are not, then those weighted costs are going to have be transferred back to all the other smaller formats.

All that being said, we have been adding more small sizes to our own lines as ourselves like to smoke them and believe consumers will too, but it means we as manufacturers need to better educate consumers so they understand the cost dynamics of these smaller formats. And you the smaller format consumer must be willing to pay more for them otherwise we will not make more than we have to due to leaf requirements.

I gotta stop posting on here, because if I keep "edu-ma-cating" every damn internet cigar geek no one is going to pay me the big bucks for my "wisdom". <snicker>

Hope this helps to add to the conversation.

BR,

Steve Saka
CEO, Drew Estate

ps: Still ended up being too damn long... I am going cold turkey for a week! This forum stuff is chewing up my days... ;>


----------



## smokin surfer (Jul 21, 2012)

Not too long. Read and appreciate every tidbit of it.. Thank you.


----------



## StogieNinja (Jul 29, 2009)

ssaka said:


> I am going cold turkey for a week! This forum stuff is chewing up my days... ;>


Dude, it's chewing up our days too! All this incredibly insightful industry information! How can we not stop and read the whole thing!

:smoke:L

Thanks for sharing, Steve. Lots of stuff I never would have thought of, and very insightful!



ssaka said:


> 15. Case in point, our LP Dirty Rat - there is no larger formats so all the cost of making this dedicated blend in the small size must be 100% paid for by its sales alone.


Yeah, that's too bad. If only there were a larger version of the Dirty Rat... perhaps one bit longer, say with a slightly higher price tag... like a "godzilla" of Dirty Rats... if only there were such a thing that could be released...


----------



## capttrips (Jun 25, 2012)

Steve's post alone needs to be put into a sticky. Alot of good cigar industry knowledge for all of us. As always, thanks for the enlightenment.


----------



## Bondo 440 (Jul 24, 2012)

capttrips said:


> Steve's post alone needs to be put into a sticky. Alot of good cigar industry knowledge for all of us. As always, thanks for the enlightenment.


Maybe a sticky could be in bad taste. Let his competition get their own statisitcs. My 02
Excellent Contribution. And man do I love his cigars.


----------



## Cigar Noob (May 22, 2011)

Aninjaforallseasons said:


> Yeah, that's too bad. If only there were a larger version of the Dirty Rat... perhaps one bit longer, say with a slightly higher price tag... like a "godzilla" of Dirty Rats... if only there were such a thing that could be released...


It shall be called... the SEWER RAT. The only thing worthy of that name would be an A.


----------



## exprime8 (May 16, 2011)

Aninjaforallseasons said:


> Yeah, that's too bad. If only there were a larger version of the Dirty Rat... perhaps one bit longer, say with a slightly higher price tag... like a "godzilla" of Dirty Rats... if only there were such a thing that could be released...


Have you heard about the Black Rat and the Big Black Rat!!!


----------



## ghe-cl (Apr 9, 2005)

Excellent reading. Thanks for taking the time to inform us with so much insight. It is much appreciated.


----------



## jheiliger (May 12, 2012)

Thanks for educating us, Steve! It's so helpful to have expert input in these situations where most of us are just guessing! 

Congrats on your new position! You guys are doing fantastic work!


----------



## notmYJ (Sep 27, 2011)

Again another reason why I love this forum. I just learned more about the business side of cigars in one post than I have in all my life. 

Thanks Steve! In return for your insight I will go buy more of your cigars today!


----------



## eddyeddy (Jul 12, 2012)

Cigar Noob said:


> It shall be called... the SEWER RAT. The only thing worthy of that name would be an A.


you know, "privada" in portuguese means "toilet"


----------



## Draepheus (Jun 22, 2012)

In my mind, at the times where I can manage to smoke a cigar (and these are usually once or twice a month, no more, sometimes less or none) I prefer it to last as long as possible, so I do usually stick to churchhills.


----------



## fuente~fuente (May 11, 2009)

eddyeddy said:


> you know, "privada" in portuguese means "toilet"


I am one Portuguese Toilet smoking muffafuffa then. :smoke:


----------



## naajsmith (Jul 1, 2012)

Wow, I hadn't looked at this thread for a few days and just caught up. Lot's of great info in this thread. Thanks to Steve and others for sharing their knowledge! I learn something every time I'm here.


----------



## Rays98GoVols (Sep 22, 2008)

ssaka said:


> There is so much in this thread that I literally could talk for an hour plus... and type for 4!
> 
> I can't do it, so here is a very "Reader's Digest" version:
> 
> ...


Thank you Mr. Saka. As Always, a wealth of knowledge. I for one always appreciate the information that you share about the Cigar Business.


----------



## Stogin (Dec 1, 2010)

I feel like, when I was first smoking, my friends and I would usually end up buying the bigger ones because they'd last longer (more bang for your buck, to use an old cliché). However, once I took the hobby a little more seriously (ha.) I started smoking smaller RGs and enjoyed them so much more. Not sure if this is typical, but throughout my escapades of introducing people to cigars, I've noticed they tend to gravitate towards the larger stogies not because it's manly but because it's a little more easy for them to justify 8 bucks for a 6x60 than for a 5.5x42


----------

