# My Source may have Sent Me some Fakes...



## air1070 (Jun 24, 2006)

No pics right now...

The Cigars in question are Montecristo Petit Edmundo's. 

This order included these, and Diplomaticos #5's. 

I have ordered from this particular vendor several times, and it has always been good...

The warranty seal under blacklight doesn't have the same hue as the other cigars that I have ordered from this source. Warranty seal also appears slightly larger than the other boxes that I have ordered. My blacklight sucks, so I might be jumping to conclusions...

Box Code is SAL ENE 07 which is not stamped in ink, it appears burned in on this box...Warranty Seal is II 214098.

Also ordered a box of Diplomaticos #5's which appear to be good to go...At least consistent with the other boxes I have ordered from this particular vendor. The Hue of the Warranty seal under black light is consitent. Box code on the Diplos is D(or O)B DIC 06. In blue ink. Warranty seal # is IO27991. 

The Montecristos smell like CC's. For Sure. Construction is fantastic. Triple Cap's, Etc...but I'm scared, there was also some unusual shipping emails that I wasn't used to with this vendor. 

I emailed the source...I might not deal with this particular "source" again if they don't make it right...

DAMN....:hn


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## jmcrawf1 (May 2, 2007)

oh damn...


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## air1070 (Jun 24, 2006)

I recieved my order last week. Thank You. 

I am concerned about the legitmacy of the Montecristo Petit Edmundos you sent me. 

I have smoked two of the cigars out of the box. They are certainly well constructed, and taste well, but...

Under UV blacklight the Warranty seal doesn't have the same hue as the other cigars you have sent me over the last year or so. It (the Warranty Seal) is also slightly larger than the other Cigars that you have sent me that are most certainly legit. 

Box code is II 214098 - The date and factory code is SAL ENE 07. Which appears appears to be burned in or inked into the wood box. That don't seem right to me. 

I'm not accusing you of sending me fakes, as I realize that I don't have any recourse of getting my money back...But I have spent a lot of money with "blank url" over the last year or so. "name deleted", you have never failed me. But I can certainly spend my money elsewhere. 

I'm not expecting you to make things right, but if you can, that would be good. 



Thanks.


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## air1070 (Jun 24, 2006)

that was the email I sent to the "source".


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## JPH (Jun 30, 2006)

The e mail was great except the last line..... dont give the vendor a "way out" you should have put 'I'm sure you'll make it right"

My opinion of course...


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## JPH (Jun 30, 2006)

Da Klugs said:


> Make what right?
> 
> Box codes are supposed to be burned
> 
> ...


There ya have it.....

plus you say they taste good.....if so..., your all set...


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## hova45 (Jun 17, 2007)

Send me a few quick and I will put them through the proper testing and let you know if they are any good.:tu


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## Kayak_Rat (Nov 28, 2005)

Like stated many times, a pm to an elder gorrila can clear it right up.


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## Da Klugs (Jan 8, 2005)

No I misread.... never seen a burned box code... ever. Sometimes they stamp pretty enthusiastically though. Sure its not black stamped by thor the arm wrestling champ?


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## Trout (Oct 4, 2006)

If it tasted like you expected than I wouldn't doubt them. From what I've read on this forum the labels and bands can sometimes be off. But I think if I trusted the source I wouldn't worry about it.


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## JCK (Nov 9, 2006)

Young Chimp speaking here, but just real quick

Diplos Warranty Seal Starting IO - box code DIC 06
Monte Warranty Seal Starting II - box code ENE 07

Aren't warranty seals supposed to go in order with the date? Granted not all Habanos are boxed in the same location, but would the seals be off in in the alphabet by 6 letters of the alphabet in only a month especially when you'd expect II on the DIC 06 box and the IO on the ENE 07 box?

Struck me as odd when I read this.


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## bonggoy (Mar 9, 2006)

I read somewhere, as was stated by Dave, box codes are stamped, never burned. Unless Cuba changed them recently. However if that's the case, you will see a lot more people discussing them.

There are some incidents where the watermark doesn't show compared to older boxes. The cigars were legit from a very reliable source. Apparently Cuba changed the paper they were using on recent boxes.


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## chibnkr (May 2, 2007)

Rule #1: Find a tobacconist you trust and who has a long-standing reputation 
Rule #2: If you think you received fakes, you didn't follow Rule #1

Box codes, stamps, warranty seals, bands, etc. etc. I've seen just about everything and anything on legit Habanos boxes (it is a handmade product, it IS Cuba, and crazy things happen). The only true test is either by smoking them (which is only valid if you have experience with that particular marca) or if you truly trust your vendor.


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## icehog3 (Feb 20, 2005)

Da Klugs said:


> No I misread.... never seen a burned box code... ever. Sometimes they stamp pretty enthusiastically though. Sure its not black stamped by thor the arm wrestling champ?


I was off that day.


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## Smoked (Apr 12, 2007)

I would really like to see some detailed pics of this. My source has been good to me and many others so I don't even bother with a black light anymore. However, if a reputable source has counterfeit inventory it would be nice to know that it is happening.


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## havana_lover (Feb 15, 2007)

I cant even imagin getting fakes, if this is a Habano Specialist then you should have no reason to worry.. 

If there triple capped smell and taste like the real deal then you should be good to go.. 



goodluck 
PS Pics might help..


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## Blueface (May 28, 2005)

chibnkr said:


> Rule #1: Find a tobacconist you trust and who has a long-standing reputation
> Rule #2: If you think you received fakes, you didn't follow Rule #1
> 
> Box codes, stamps, warranty seals, bands, etc. etc. I've seen just about everything and anything on legit Habanos boxes (it is a handmade product, it IS Cuba, and crazy things happen). The only true test is either by smoking them (which is only valid if you have experience with that particular marca) or if you truly trust your vendor.


:tpd:

I was just ROFLMAO the other day.
Decided to open a box that is aging to smell the cigars.
Hadn't noticed before.
Pull out the last four cigars to the left side of the box.
Not one single cigar matches the other.
I have four different sizes.
The smallest doesn't even look like the same vitola as the largest.

I have no care in the world over this.
Just made me chuckle.

A. It is Cuban (try making cigars with a rifle to your head)
B. It is handmade (try making the same thing by hand over and over and have it come out identical)
C. I TRUST THE VENDOR completely

So, no reason to worry. Just food for laughter.


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## air1070 (Jun 24, 2006)

Response from the vendor...

First and foremost let me assure you that you do not have fake cigars in your hand. We have been buying from the same Habanos distributors for more then 14 years so authenticity is not in question.

If you go to any La Casa Del Habanos store around the world you will see that the watermarked coat of arms that appears on the warranty seal can vary from very prominent to almost nonexistent. This is not uncommon at all and well documented. The factory code is in fact inked on the box but sometimes when you run your finger across the code it can feel like it is burned. What you are actually feeling is the texture of the wood under your fingers and not the inked code. On the other hand the “Habanos” and Totalmente a Mano” is burned into the box.

Please understand that our company has been in (deleted) since 1946 and we have been selling cigars both locally and internationally for 16 years now. We would not have survived this long with the reputation that we have if we were selling fakes. Please also find some pictures of our warehouse for your reference.


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## croatan (Mar 23, 2005)

khubli said:


> Young Chimp speaking here, but just real quick
> 
> Diplos Warranty Seal Starting IO - box code DIC 06
> Monte Warranty Seal Starting II - box code ENE 07
> ...


They generally correspond to the date. The various factories get warranty seals and apply them to boxes. All you can usually hope for is that the warranty seal and box date are generally in the right range (e.g. starts with an I from '06-'07).

Warranty seals that are slightly off don't worry me. And I don't even own a blacklight. I base my conclusions on taste. That being said, I've never seen a burned in box code--again, you sure it's not just black ink stamped?

My guess: if the vendor is any good, you're making a mountain out of a molehill.


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## havana_lover (Feb 15, 2007)

air1070 said:


> Response from the vendor...
> 
> First and foremost let me assure you that you do not have fake cigars in your hand. We have been buying from the same Habanos distributors for more then 14 years so authenticity is not in question.
> 
> ...


This is what I was saying this guy (vendor) is a Habano Specialist and wouldnt take the chance of killing his / her business to make a few bucks. Just too much to lose :tu


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## air1070 (Jun 24, 2006)

I may have broken a rule with a few of those pics, so I removed them...Kind of a dead giveaway who the source was...


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## air1070 (Jun 24, 2006)

a few more on the way...Upon further inspection, the box code is stamped. 

So really the only thing in question here is the warranty seal. Maybe I am making a mountain out of a molehill.


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## air1070 (Jun 24, 2006)

[No message]


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## RJT (Feb 12, 2005)

I can tell without looking to hard that that is infact an inked date stamp and the chevron is burned in. Looks fine to me and the vendors response is correct. If the vendor has a good reputation then you are fine. Happy smoking!! :ss


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## havana_lover (Feb 15, 2007)

that looks fine to me brother, those are the real deal..


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## RJT (Feb 12, 2005)

air1070 said:


> a few more on the way...Upon further inspection, the box code is stamped.
> 
> So really the only thing in question here is the warranty seal. Maybe I am making a mountain out of a molehill.


You are and we all have at one time or another over similar stuff. :r So dont feel to bad.


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## JCK (Nov 9, 2006)

Those look delicious.. my senses are starting to overload... must... not... loook... at those pictures anymore !

Enjoy those cigars.


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## The Professor (Jul 20, 2006)

RJT said:


> You are and we all have at one time or another over similar stuff. :r So dont feel to bad.


:tpd: Quit yer worrying and enjoy the buggers. 


khubli said:


> Those look delicious.. my senses are starting to overload... must... not... loook... at those pictures anymore !
> 
> Enjoy those cigars.


Ummmm ... get a room, dood.  :chk


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## Bruce (Dec 31, 1999)

chibnkr said:


> Rule #1: Find a tobacconist you trust and who has a long-standing reputation
> Rule #2: If you think you received fakes, you didn't follow Rule #1
> 
> Box codes, stamps, warranty seals, bands, etc. etc. I've seen just about everything and anything on legit Habanos boxes (it is a handmade product, it IS Cuba, and crazy things happen). The only true test is either by smoking them (which is only valid if you have experience with that particular marca) or if you truly trust your vendor.


Michael is 100% correct. I think new havana smokers are a bit too uptight about details that are in a constant state of flux.
This is a Third World country with limited resources. The one constant I have found with Cuban cigars, boxes, bands, seals, ect. is inconsistancy!


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## Bruce (Dec 31, 1999)

PS:
Just an FYI: For the most part, old established tobacconists don't take too kindly to emails questioning their reputation. Some take it very seriously and remember. This is not a way of building a good rapport with a tobacconist. 

For those new to the world of Havanas, it would be best to have more experienced smokers help you out with your questions/doubts before you email your tobacconist.

Not a flame or anything else that is remotely malicious.....just a heads up that if you want to build a good rapport and relationship........and receive stellar service from the retailer, have faith and trust in them!


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## The Professor (Jul 20, 2006)

Bruce said:


> PS:
> Just an FYI: For the most part, old established tobacconists don't take too kindly to emails questioning their reputation. Some take it very seriously and remember. This is not a way of building a good rapport with a tobacconist.
> 
> For those new to the world of Havanas, it would be best to have more experienced smokers help you out with your questions/doubts before you email your tobacconist.
> ...


Very good point, Bruce. :tu


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## kjd2121 (Jul 13, 2006)

Check the clasp. What are the letters underneath when you lift the clasp up. Should say *Schmale/Germany.

They look real to me.
*


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## poker (Dec 11, 1997)

Bruce said:


> PS:
> Just an FYI: For the most part, old established tobacconists don't take too kindly to emails questioning their reputation. Some take it very seriously and remember. This is not a way of building a good rapport with a tobacconist.
> 
> *For those new to the world of Havanas, it would be best to have more experienced smokers help you out with your questions/doubts before you email your tobacconist.*
> ...


:tpd:


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## havana_lover (Feb 15, 2007)

kjd2121 said:


> Check the clasp. What are the letters underneath when you lift the clasp up. Should say *Schmale/Germany.
> 
> They look real to me.
> *


haha

I never noticed that before, and just checked a box of Cohibas I have and sure enough.. thanks for the info :tu


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## justinphilly-cl (Sep 7, 2005)

you may have just received your last purchase from that vendor, depending on how they handle your email. :hn


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## air1070 (Jun 24, 2006)

kjd2121 said:


> Check the clasp. What are the letters underneath when you lift the clasp up. Should say *Schmale/Germany.
> 
> They look real to me.
> *


It does.


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## air1070 (Jun 24, 2006)

justinphilly said:


> you may have just received your last purchase from that vendor, depending on how they handle your email. :hn


I'll make it right, but a long time Gorilla here told me to be a bit leary of this particular vendor right now...As he feels this vendor is being "Watched"


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## havana_lover (Feb 15, 2007)

air1070 said:


> It does.


There you go..

I would email them to say your sorry or as mentioned this might be your last purchase from them..


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## air1070 (Jun 24, 2006)

I will say that this particular vendor has been outstanding to me, and the person that runs it is a seriously nice guy. :tu


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## FriendlyFire (Jun 11, 2007)

Wow, are you positive ? is thee a way to check it out?


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## Blueface (May 28, 2005)

Without speaking more than one should on this subject, you have given away enough info in your last posts to tell a whole bunch of us who this vendor could be.
I don't see anyone trying to stay afloat taking a chance on sending out stuff that is not legit.
That would just sink them more.
I would drop them a note thanking them for their response and apologizing.
Tell them you are relatively new to this world of cigars and you had doubts that he was able to clarify.
Anyone can make a mistake.
It is how one handles it to correct it that makes the world of difference.


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## RJT (Feb 12, 2005)

Blueface said:


> Without speaking more than one should on this subject, you have given away enough info in your last posts to tell a whole bunch of us who this vendor could be.
> I don't see anyone trying to stay afloat taking a chance on sending out stuff that is not legit.
> That would just sink them more.
> I would drop them a note thanking them for their response and apologizing.
> ...


:tpd: If it is the vendor most of us assume it is, I can assure you the cigars are fine. Great advice.


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## The Professor (Jul 20, 2006)

Blueface said:


> Without speaking more than one should on this subject, you have given away enough info in your last posts to tell a whole bunch of us who this vendor could be.
> I don't see anyone trying to stay afloat taking a chance on sending out stuff that is not legit.
> That would just sink them more.
> * I would drop them a note thanking them for their response and apologizing.
> ...


Yup. I'm comfortable enough to trust my sources completely. But *anytime* I've asked a question that could possibly be construed negatively, I've made sure to project a deferential attitude and thank the person for being so forthright, kind, and generous. These are *relationships* that you're forming and you want to be sure to cultivate them and reciprocate feelings/notions of trust and deference.

:2


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## chibnkr (May 2, 2007)

kjd2121 said:


> Check the clasp. What are the letters underneath when you lift the clasp up. Should say *Schmale/Germany.*
> 
> *They look real to me.*


This is exactly the type of thing that I was talking about before. Now, most clasps do indeed say Schmale/Germany on them. However, there have been times when Cuba has sourced the clasps from other vendors (not sure exactly why - maybe production issues or a better price or whatever), and so I have seen some absolutely legit boxes with clasps that were manufactured by someone other than Schmale. So this is just like any other authentication guideline (such as bands, seals, stamps, etc.)...it is _only a guidelin_e and is not a hard-and-fast rule. Just because your clasp does not say Schmale does not mean your box is fake, and vice-versa. At the end of the day you still have to trust your tobacconist.

And I wholeheartedly agree with Bruce with regards to accusing a well-respected vendor of selling fake cigars. Tread very carefully here. Speak with others who are more familiar with Habanos first. One email like that to a well-respected vendor can pretty much guarantee that you will never get anything decent from them again.


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## air1070 (Jun 24, 2006)

Here is the email I just dispatched to the vendor:


> I would like to apologize for even bringing this up. Your email certainly clarified things, and with the help of a few of my friends that are very schooled in Habanos, the cigars are 100% Legit.
> 
> I am somewhat new to the world of Habanos, so I get kinda weirded out when something seems a little out of place...But as you pointed out, there are variances and inconsistencies from factory to factory and box to box. After all, Cuba is a Third World country with limited resources.
> 
> ...


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## RJT (Feb 12, 2005)

air1070 said:


> Here is the email I just dispatched to the vendor:


:tu Sounds good...


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## hamncheese (Oct 5, 2006)

Good move:tu 

As much as you should realize that the vendor's need your business and that you can take your services elsewhere if they starting dicking you around, you should also realize that making nice with them is very important as well. Case closed.


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## Mindflux (Dec 5, 2005)

kjd2121 said:


> Check the clasp. What are the letters underneath when you lift the clasp up. Should say *Schmale/Germany.
> 
> They look real to me.
> *


I've seen authentic habanos with clasps that are not Schmale/Germany. This isn't a be-all-end-all indicator.

DOH. This was already covered.


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## mash (Jul 24, 2007)

In addition to all the other points made here, seems to me this would be a very unusual marca/vitola to counterfeit. I know that's not fool-proof, but generally see fakes of more standard/well-known sticks.


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## air1070 (Jun 24, 2006)

mash said:


> In addition to all the other points made here, seems to me this would be a very unusual marca/vitola to counterfeit. I know that's not fool-proof, but generally see fakes of more standard/well-known sticks.


You make a good point, and I have always tried to order Cigars with that in mind.

The first CC's I ordered were Cuaba Divinos. Who in the hell would go to the trouble to counterfeit something that complicated?


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## Blueface (May 28, 2005)

air1070 said:


> You make a good point, and I have always tried to order Cigars with that in mind.
> 
> The first CC's I ordered were Cuaba Divinos. Who in the hell would go to the trouble to counterfeit something that complicated?


I would not gamble the house on that.
Remember, there is a market for them.
Where there is a market, there will be opportunists seeking to exploit it.
These are Montecristos we are talking about.
Most known brand for many.
New Petits recently rated extremely high in CA.
All the makings for someone to want to in fact fake them.

So, brings us back again to the begining.
Trust your source.
Build a relationship with them.
If you have that relationship and trust, never question it as no need to.

You can't worry about all the markings, etc. as they are very irregular even when legit and you can't rely on the fact they are tough to fake.
I have seen fake Salomons that would blow you away as far as quality. Go figure.


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## floydpink (Feb 15, 2007)

Maybe off topic, but do the 10 packs of PE's say "Petit Edmundo" on the bottom side of the lid? I noticed the box here has it and am nearly positive my box of 10 only had the Montecristo on it but will double check, and I have no questions about their authenticity.


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## lenguamor (Nov 23, 2006)

Blueface said:


> I would not gamble the house on that.
> Remember, there is a market for them.
> Where there is a market, there will be opportunists seeking to exploit it.
> These are Montecristos we are talking about.
> ...


True. Plus I've seen a legit seal that under blacklight was pink instead of the usual fluorescent green-yellow.

Dave (TriShield) cam attest to that.


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