# So, Rhodesian v. Bulldog



## Jeff10236 (Nov 21, 2010)

If you look at definitions online or talk to pipe smokers and proprietors of smoke shops, there seems to be disagreement as to what defines a pipe as a Rhodesian or a bulldog. Given that these are among my long-time favorite pipe shapes, I've spent more hours than I care to admit looking into this issue. So, I'm curious what other pipe smokers see as the difference between the two.

Over the years, it seems that there are three main definitions that different people go by for the differences between the two. Here are the usual options/differentiations:


A bulldog has a diamond shank and the Rhodesian's is round
A bulldog is straight and the Rhodesian is bent
OR

The bulldog has a longer, straighter cap/crown on the bowl and the Rhodesian is flattened

I guess our options as to our opinion is to go by one of these definitions of the difference, go by what the manufacturer says, or just not care (unless someone has a definition I haven't seen yet).

Personally, I go by what the manufacturer says. Buy the same shape from two different manufacturers, and that same shape may be a called a bulldog or bent bulldog by one and a Rhodesian by another. I figure that it is up to the pipe-maker what they want to call their pipe. Otherwise, I just like the design and don't really care what I call the variations on the shape, except when coming across some pipe snob who thinks I'm ignorant because I call my pipe something other than what he thinks that shape should be called. That can be especially irritating because with anything but a straight, diamond shank, tall crowned bulldog (the only variation that everyone seems to call a bulldog) you'll find plenty of people who think it should be properly called either one or the other. I usually find myself using both names for any shape in which there is some common disagreement about what it should be called (i.e. "some people would call this shape a Rhodesian, others would call it a bulldog").

So, when calling a pipe shape a Rhodesian or bulldog, which naming convention do you use?

(I guess a side question would be, does anyone other than me even care about this stuff?)


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## tedswearingen (Sep 14, 2010)

I reckon a bulldog has wide, saucer rimmed bowl and some kind of beading as well as a diamond shank. A rhodesian would be the same but with something other than a diamond shank (a round, oval or flat shank, for example).


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## Jack Straw (Nov 20, 2008)

There doesn't seem to be any hard and fast rule, but in this day and age _most_ people seem to agree that a Rhodesian has a round shank and a Bulldog a diamond shank.

The bent/straight thing to me seems to be nonsense, or maybe I just don't know what I'm talking about. 

I don't think anyone would call this a rhodesian:










Just as I don't think anyone would call this a bulldog:










When in doubt, the dunhill shape chart is a good reference for classic shapes: Dunhill Pipe Shape Chart

But it lists the 08 as a diamond-shanked rhodesian!

Here's one, and even Bear Graves is confused!

Dunhill Shell Briar (3108) Pipes at Smoking Pipes .com

So I think the answer is, who the **** knows! :lol:

What I would be interested in reading, though, is how the shape/name rhodesian came about.


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## Jack Straw (Nov 20, 2008)

Here's a nice write-up from GLP: G. L. Pease - Pipe Shapes


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## phineasrex (Jul 12, 2010)

I'll leave the higher order analysis to Mr. Pease, I just want to say that I am in love with that St. Paddy's day pipe, and I have been for some time.


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## Jack Straw (Nov 20, 2008)

Me too Ryan. I saw one in-person at Barclay Rex in Manhattan, and man is it a looker.


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## ultramag (Aug 23, 2007)

I'll throw my opinion in as an avid bulldog fan. Mind you, that doesn't necessarily mean I know anything, just that I'm a devotee of the shape. 

I've come to settle on the diamond shank being the determining factor between the shapes. Bent diamond shanks with the bulldog shaped bowl are bent bulldogs in my world. I'm not overly picky, if at all, about the shape/proportions of the bowl.

To throw one more point of contention I've heard debated several times into the mix, there are those who think a bulldog can't be a bulldog without two rings around the bowl. It's definitely a shape everyone has chosen to make defining _much_ more difficult than it need be IMNSHO. :frusty:


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## MarkC (Jul 4, 2009)

I can't say I settled on that, but I use the same 'bulldog=diamond shank' rule. No thought on my part, that's just the way I learned it back in my youth.


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## Mister Moo (Sep 8, 2005)

round's rhodesian
diamond, doggie
anything else
leaves me agog-ie


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## owaindav (Mar 7, 2010)

And the Moos have it! I agree, I think.

Interestingly enough, as I was looking on the old fleabay last night for Dunhills, I ran across what was being described as a Dunhill bent bulldog. As I recalled this thread, I realized, it has a round shank! The nerve! It's bent and has a round shank. How dare they?!


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## indigosmoke (Sep 1, 2009)

'Tis but thy name that is my enemy;
Thou art thyself, though not a Rhodesian.
What's Rhodesian? it is nor shank, nor stem,
Nor bowl, nor finish, nor any other part
Belonging to a briar. O, be some other name!
What's in a name? that which we call a bulldog
By any other name would smoke as sweet;


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## RJpuffs (Jan 27, 2008)

indigosmoke said:


> 'Tis but thy name that is my enemy;
> Thou art thyself, though not a Rhodesian.
> What's Rhodesian? it is nor shank, nor stem,
> Nor bowl, nor finish, nor any other part
> ...


Good one! Bump this poet's RG!


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## Jeff10236 (Nov 21, 2010)

ultramag said:


> I've come to settle on the diamond shank being the determining factor between the shapes. Bent diamond shanks with the bulldog shaped bowl are bent bulldogs in my world. I'm not overly picky, if at all, about the shape/proportions of the bowl.


I've always pretty much gone with what the manufacturer called theirs (even if it doesn't totally agree with similar shapes from other makers, or with my more generic definition). But, when I either never knew what they called it, or if I've had it long enough that I've forgotten, that has pretty much been my definition too (and it appears to be the most common here). Though, I've run into enough snobs with different definitions that if I'm somehow in a conversation about it I will identify it as a shape that some call a Rhodesian and some call a bulldog if it isn't the one combo that all the definitions agree upon. Early on I heard people talk about a bent bulldog so I never bought the "straight = bulldog, bent = Rhodesian" that I sometimes hear. I had never heard the one with the size/proportion and shape of the crown of the bowl until recently, and then all of a sudden I heard it 5 or 6 times in a very short period of time.



ultramag said:


> To throw one more point of contention I've heard debated several times into the mix, there are those who think a bulldog can't be a bulldog without two rings around the bowl. It's definitely a shape everyone has chosen to make defining _much_ more difficult than it need be IMNSHO. :frusty:


That is a new one, never heard it before. I agree that it is made more difficult than it has to be, so many disagreements as to what it means (though apparently from this thread, there is a general consensus that round = Rhodesian, diamond = bulldog, which is good to see).


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## Contrabass Bry (May 3, 2010)

Mister Moo said:


> round's rhodesian
> diamond, doggie
> anything else
> leaves me agog-ie


That TOTALLY reminded me of Steve Martin's rendition of John Lillison's (England's greatest one-armed poet) "Pointy Birds" from "The Man with Two Brains".

"O pointy birds, o pointy pointy, anoint my head, anointy-nointy."

/back to topic


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## Jack Straw (Nov 20, 2008)

Jeff, next time you run into one of these snobs, refer to the pipe as a "bulldesian" to throw them for a loop.


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## Mister Moo (Sep 8, 2005)

Contrabass Bry said:


> That TOTALLY reminded me of Steve Martin's rendition of John Lillison's (England's greatest one-armed poet) "Pointy Birds" from "The Man with Two Brains".
> 
> "O pointy birds, o pointy pointy, anoint my head, anointy-nointy."
> 
> /back to topic


Both stolen from the genius that was Ogden Nash.


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## indigosmoke (Sep 1, 2009)

Mister Moo said:


> Both stolen from the genius that was Ogden Nash.


"The cow is of the bovine ilk; one end is moo, the other milk." - Ogden Nash

And I agree, a mind of pure genius.


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## BloodyCactus (Oct 19, 2010)

I always called my round peterson 999 a bulldog but I guess its a rhodie.. hmm I've been using the wrong terms to scour ebay


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## indigosmoke (Sep 1, 2009)

BloodyCactus said:


> I always called my round peterson 999 a bulldog but I guess its a rhodie.. hmm I've been using the wrong terms to scour ebay


Probably a good idea to use both terms, considering how much confusion this topic seems to engender.


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## Mister Moo (Sep 8, 2005)

Jack Straw said:


> ...But it lists the 08 as a diamond-shanked rhodesian! Here's one, and even Bear Graves is confused!
> Dunhill Shell Briar (3108) Pipes at Smoking Pipes .com


Bear, like most pipe smokers, is easily confused. Here is a screenshot from todays Dunhill.com pipe listings. Maybe you all can figure it out. :biggrin1:


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## Jack Straw (Nov 20, 2008)

:hmm:


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## ultramag (Aug 23, 2007)

Jack Straw said:


> :hmm:


And here I was counting on you to be able to explain it to me. :dunno:


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## WWhermit (Nov 30, 2008)

Mister Moo said:


> round's rhodesian
> diamond, doggie
> anything else
> leaves me agog-ie


One more line, some editing, and you would have yourself a nice haiku.

WWhermit
ipe:


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## Mister Moo (Sep 8, 2005)

WWhermit said:


> One more line, some editing, and you would have yourself a nice haiku.
> 
> WWhermit
> ipe:


Pipe haiku threads mean hoots
through gentle evening smoke.
You start one, bastage.

The question of what's a rhodesian and what's a bulldog is reduced to absurdity with the Dunhill listings. My final authority on pressing matters of what is lumberman and what is canadian, etc., has always been the ASP/FAQ. Their pipe chart has been down for some long time but I think it's back now, better than ever. I'll go have a look...

moment...

checking...

Yes! It is back. Jeff10236 - what do you think? http://www.aspipes.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=71&Itemid=50


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## Requiem (Dec 6, 2008)

Dunhill, and several other english manufacters, call bulldog to those with a tall bowl and rodhesian to the squat ones, regardless of the shank's shape or stem bent.


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## Jeff10236 (Nov 21, 2010)

Mister Moo said:


> Bear, like most pipe smokers, is easily confused. Here is a screenshot from todays Dunhill.com pipe listings. Maybe you all can figure it out. :biggrin1:


That looks like a perfect illustration of the "taller crown = bulldog, flatter crown = Rhodesian" definition. Notice the taller crown on the one labeled a bulldog, the bowl is proportioned almost like the stereotypical smokestacks of an 1800s locomotive while the two labeled Rhodesians have the diamond stem, but shorter crowns.

Heck, since there seems to be no real agreement, I'd move to dropping the name Rhodesian altogether since all Rhodesians are basically a variation of a bulldog anyway. Too established a name for that I guess, even if the definition fluctuates.


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## Jeff10236 (Nov 21, 2010)

Mister Moo said:


> Pipe haiku threads mean hoots
> through gentle evening smoke.
> You start one, bastage.
> 
> ...


I like that link.

But...did...you...have...to...introduce...Canadian v. lumberman. We haven't finished with Rhodesian v. bulldog yet. My head is swimming, I think I need... :new_all_coholic: Better.


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## MarkC (Jul 4, 2009)

And how much length does a lovat lunk if a lovat could lunk length?


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## ultramag (Aug 23, 2007)

I saw this "rhodesian" and almost immediately thought of this thread:

Italian Estate Becker Sandblasted Rhodesian (Two Clubs) (2006) (Unsmoked) Pipes at Smoking Pipes .com

This should sufficiently muddy the waters for a while. :hurt:

On edit:

One more and I'll quit. This, to me, is an almost textbook bulldog that is given the rhodesian shape designation.

http://www.smokingpipes.com/pipes/estate/italy/moreinfo.cfm?product_id=69222

Any thoughts?


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## asx (Jan 18, 2011)

Since I enjoy the bulldog name, like the diamond shank, and own what I consider a squat bulldog, I wholly support the "diamond = dog, round = rhodesian" rule.
It even has the alliteration to make it proper.


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