# Winter Humidor Blues



## 05Venturer (Jan 7, 2014)

Hey everyone,
I have a new 50 count humidor that I completed seasoning and now I am having a terrible time keeping the humidity up on. I have about 40 sticks in it right now. I have a Boveda 72, a container of RH beads and still cant get over 62%. This mornign I also added a shotglass of distilled water to try to help, I will have to removed cigars to add anything else.
Any help would be appreciated.:baby:


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## Tobias Lutz (Feb 18, 2013)

I strongly suggest getting the shot-glass out of there before disaster ensues! The dry, cool air during winter (particularly if you have very dry method of heating your house like wood or gas) will lead to contraction with wooden humidors and the seals as not as good. Not a big deal, it happens. Many of us store our sticks in the 62rh range all year. RIght now some of mine have dropped to 58. They will not be hurt at all and when spring comes your box should regulate.


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## Hoosierace (Jul 16, 2013)

I was having the same problem with a humidor this winter thanks to the huge swings of humidity in the house. Mine was just a cheap unit but i ended up getting it to stabilize by putting it into a giant ziplock bag (walmart). Sort of hokey but i was desperate.


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## 05Venturer (Jan 7, 2014)

Tobias Lutz said:


> I strongly suggest getting the shot-glass out of there before disaster ensues! The dry, cool air during winter (particularly if you have very dry method of heating your house like wood or gas) will lead to contraction with wooden humidors and the seals as not as good. Not a big deal, it happens. Many of us store our sticks in the 62rh range all year. RIght now some of mine have dropped to 58. They will not be hurt at all and when spring comes your box should regulate.


Just curious as to what disaster you would be referring to? Spillage??


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## Tobias Lutz (Feb 18, 2013)

05Venturer said:


> Just curious as to what disaster you would be referring to? *Spillage*??


Exactly! Not only are your sticks at risk, but spilling an ounce of water on a concentrated area of your humidor could lead to warping of the wood.


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## 05Venturer (Jan 7, 2014)

Tobias Lutz said:


> Exactly! Not only are your sticks at risk, but spilling an ounce of water on a concentrated area of your humidor could lead to warping of the wood.


Thanx


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## 05Venturer (Jan 7, 2014)

OK so I fired up a vaporizer in my smoking room and will see what happens for the next day or so. Hopefully this will help out


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## apollo (Jan 11, 2014)

I would either go exclusive to the Boveda, or get them out of there all together. They don't play well with other devices, and the RH is always trying to correct it's self. 

If it were me, I'd only use the Boveda 72's (get three or four for your size of box) and let them work their magic. Unless your humidor is poorly seasoned, or leaking badly, they will stabilize the humidity.

If you decide to reseason the humidor, get three of the Boveda 84's, and let them work for two weeks. Get the cigars into a gallon zip-lock with a Boveda 69 while the 84's work on the wood.


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## cprsquared (Feb 13, 2013)

05Venturer said:


> Hey everyone,
> I have a new 50 count humidor that I completed seasoning and now I am having a terrible time keeping the humidity up on. I have about 40 sticks in it right now. I have a Boveda 72, a container of RH beads and still cant get over 62%. This mornign I also added a shotglass of distilled water to try to help, I will have to removed cigars to add anything else.
> Any help would be appreciated.:baby:


Hey Kent, I'm the Business Development Director at Boveda, we can get you squared away pretty easily. "Seasoning" means a lot of things to a lot of people, but it's officially defined as getting the wood in the humidor all the moisture it needs to keep a constant RH where you'll store the cigars - generally 68-70. Boveda is a "smart" technology, where it recognizes ambient humidity and adds or removes to achieve the RH on the pack. Beads don't do that (in spite of the marketing). We recommend using at least 1 Boveda per 25 cigar capacity. We say "at least" because Boveda is the only product that will never over humidify. In contrast, beads will over humidify if you spray/wet them too much - which automatically disqualifies them from being 2-way humidity control (again, in spite of the advertising). @apollo is correct, that using Boveda + something else can get you mixed results. You have beads/gel/crystal/sponge giving off high humidity and Boveda trying to remove it.

If your humidor is really seasoned, you're a single Boveda 72 (for a total of two) away from perfection. Even if the humidor isn't quite seasoned, the 2nd 72 (and no beads) will be great. May run a little low if it's not completely seasoned, but based on where you are now, it'll likely be 65+ for a few days until both 72's are getting you in the 70 area. Since humidors are built to breathe/exchange air, most humidors will stabilize a few points below the RH Boveda you're using.

Thank you very much for your business, let me know if I can be more help. Cheers! Charlie


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## cigarshopper (Dec 12, 2013)

Hi Charlie

I've been hearing a lot of talk on many forums and threads (right here on Puff) talking about, "recharging," Boveda packs when they've run their recommended course. Is there any validity to this or are people just putting their cigars in jeopardy by trying to recharge packs?

Thanks!


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## cigarshopper (Dec 12, 2013)

The best thing to do is get rid of all your humidors, especially if you live in cold weather states like I do. The rise and fall of humidity in the early Spring, late Fall and all of Winter, plays havoc with even the best humidors. On the advice of a guy associated with a certain company which makes products to regulate humidity, I went out and bought 52oz. coolers. I placed my whole collection of cigars, and continue to do so, in zip-lock bags with a 69% Boveda pack and a piece of cedar from the cigar box. My cigars age wonderfully, and the coolers protect the contents from wild swings from dry temps and when the weather gets humid. I also throw 3, 72% packs inside the cooler to keep the inside of the cooler just so, these packs will last you a lot longer than what the instructions say they will. The only thing you should do is open the drain plug (I do it twice a week for 35 minutes) and let the inside of the cooler breath. I've been doing it for 2 years now, and my smokes have never tasted better!


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## cprsquared (Feb 13, 2013)

cigarshopper said:


> Hi Charlie
> 
> I've been hearing a lot of talk on many forums and threads (right here on Puff) talking about, "recharging," Boveda packs when they've run their recommended course. Is there any validity to this or are people just putting their cigars in jeopardy by trying to recharge packs?
> 
> Thanks!


Hey Marc!

Because it's the only product in the world that can do it, we love to tell people that Boveda will absorb moisture if exposed to an RH higher that what's on the pack. But since we designed Boveda to be activation and maintenance free, we don't push introducing hassle where there doesn't need to be. We also don't suggest it because it can be over-done. If a Boveda absorbs about 15% of its starting weight, it'll throw off the salt/water ratio and run higher until it gives up moisture to bring it into spec. This is OK because 95+% of our customers need moisture vs. needing constant moisture removal.

This all comes down to value. When compared to the eternally refillable 1-way gel/crystal/beads, Boveda may seem expensive until you consider: Boveda has a 0% chance of humidifying beyond the RH on the pack, when used and prescribed. 100% of other products can over-humidify, which is clear by their directions that include max wetting/filling instructions. It's an admission that performance isn't up to their "technology", but up to the amount of water used, container, ambient air, ambient temp, number of cigars and condition of cigars. What's really expensive is learning that the hard way and ruining a box full of cigars. https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...81739817.82443.321849847860114&type=1&theater

We feel Boveda is a low cost insurance policy that also gives you more time to enjoy life instead of fussing with a humidor. Thank you very much for your business, let me know if I can be more help. Cheers!


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## cpmcdill (Jan 11, 2014)

For what it's worth, I find that when the room RH is really low in the Winter, if I run a room humidifier (I have a Vick's) where the humidors are, it makes a difference.


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## 05Venturer (Jan 7, 2014)

cpmcdill said:


> For what it's worth, I find that when the room RH is really low in the Winter, if I run a room humidifier (I have a Vick's) where the humidors are, it makes a difference.


Exactly what I did the other day and I pulled the beads and added a couple Boveda 72 minis that I had and as of today all is good in Kenny's Smoking Room!!
I am now going to just run the vaporizer for an hour or so a day while I am in there smoking and I think I am good until this dreaded winter is over.


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## The Wolverine (Jun 19, 2013)

Most likely the humidor does not have a good seal and you should have one pack for the humidor and one for every 50 cigars to start at least two.


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## bazookajoe (Nov 2, 2006)

cigarshopper said:


> *The best thing to do is get rid of all your humidors*, especially if you live in cold weather states like I do. The rise and fall of humidity in the early Spring, late Fall and all of Winter, plays havoc with *even the best humidors*. On the advice of a guy associated with a certain company which makes products to regulate humidity, I went out and bought 52oz. coolers. I placed my whole collection of cigars, and continue to do so, in zip-lock bags with a 69% Boveda pack and a piece of cedar from the cigar box. My cigars age wonderfully, and the coolers protect the contents from wild swings from dry temps and when the weather gets humid. I also throw 3, 72% packs inside the cooler to keep the inside of the cooler just so, these packs will last you a lot longer than what the instructions say they will. The only thing you should do is open the drain plug (I do it twice a week for 35 minutes) and let the inside of the cooler breath. I've been doing it for 2 years now, and my smokes have never tasted better!


Terrible advice and simply not true. A well made humidor will seal substantially better than a cooler. I have several humidors and coolers and the only advantage the coolers have is cost and an extremely marginal benefit of slowing temp changes. Humidors on the other hand have the advantage of helping to mitigate changes in the environment much better than plastic coolers. It sounds like you are sealing your cigars in ziplocs with Boveda packs, in which case you don't even need a humidor or cooler. You could put them in a cardboard box in your closet...

Also, if the cigars are fresh (and you're not long term aging) they give off ammonia and they need more air flow than opening the drain plug a couple of times a week can provide. If you're happy with your set-up and enjoy your cigars that's whats most important, but don't assume what's best for you is what's best for everyone and toss out blanket statements that contradict the experience of others.


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## cigarshopper (Dec 12, 2013)

It looks like bazooka bozo didn't get burped again today. The advice is good, given to me by a person who works developing the very best humidification devices for cigars and equipment that need to have a steady relative humidity while in use. Humidors do not protect your cigars completely, if the relative humidity fluctuates greatly in the room you keep your humidors in. Once again, you comment on a post I made and prove yourself to be an ass.

For that, you get a box of your favorite Gurkha Cigar.


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## cigarshopper (Dec 12, 2013)

"Terrible advice and simply not true. A well made humidor will seal substantially better than a cooler. I have several humidors and coolers and the only advantage the coolers have is cost and an extremely marginal benefit of slowing temp changes. Humidors on the other hand have the advantage of helping to mitigate changes in the environment much better than plastic coolers. It sounds like you are sealing your cigars in ziplocs with Boveda packs, in which case you don't even need a humidor or cooler. You could put them in a cardboard box in your closet..."

"Also, if the cigars are fresh (and you're not long term aging) they give off ammonia and they need more air flow than opening the drain plug a couple of times a week can provide. If you're happy with your set-up and enjoy your cigars that's whats most important, but don't assume what's best for you is what's best for everyone and toss out blanket statements that contradict the experience of others."

It looks like bazooka bozo didn't get burped again today. The advice is good, given to me by a person who works developing the very best humidification devices for cigars and equipment that need to have a steady relative humidity while in use. Humidors do not protect your cigars completely if the relative humidity fluctuates greatly in the room you keep your humidors in. Once again, you comment on a post I made and prove yourself to be an ass.

For that, you get a box of your favorite Gurkha Cigar.


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## bazookajoe (Nov 2, 2006)

cigarshopper said:


> ...prove yourself to be an ass...


Really? How so? Because I disagree with you? I suppose calling me a bozo and an ass, as well as saying in another thread that people who like Acids are not real cigar smokers shows you to be someone who's opinion should be highly valued...


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## cigarshopper (Dec 12, 2013)

If you like smoking infused, "cigars," have at it. I don't care what you smoke. Your whole reply to my post about, "getting rid of your humidors," is a complete contradiction. Think before you post, reread before you post. Then use the edit function, it might help when you end up contradicting yourself.

Gurkha and Acid Cigars are everywhere! Especially on the auction sites and the closeout sections of most online cigar stores.


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## The Wolverine (Jun 19, 2013)

Humidors have been around and used long before coolers if you have a good one and know how to set up the humidification you should be fine.


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## bazookajoe (Nov 2, 2006)

cigarshopper said:


> ...Think before you post, reread before you post...


:biglaugh:


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## bazookajoe (Nov 2, 2006)

cigarshopper said:


> ...Your whole reply to my post about, "getting rid of your humidors," is a complete contradiction...


Ok, I'll explain it so even you can understand, although I doubt you will. A good plastic cooler like a Coleman Xtreme can slow down temp changes but doesn't seal well enough to control rapid humidity changes. A high quality humidor that seals better than a cooler, will, because of the spanish cedar inside will help stabilize the RH during the swings in the environment (temp and humidity changes both affect RH) which coolers won't do unless you put cedar inside, in which case it's not the cooler doing the work. I'm speaking from actual experience, not because some mystery guru told me it's true. Summary: a cooler has a minuscule advantage in extreme and rapid temperature changes but overall a high quality humidor is better at dealing with temperature and humidity changes in it's environment.

You don't have to agree or even believe it, but resorting to name calling tells me you simply don't have anything intelligent to say. I've seen your type come and go here and I suspect I'll still be here long after you're gone.


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## apollo (Jan 11, 2014)

bazookajoe said:


> Ok, I'll explain it so even you can understand, although I doubt you will. A good plastic cooler like a Coleman Xtreme can slow down temp changes but doesn't seal well enough to control rapid humidity changes. A high quality humidor that seals better than a cooler, will, because of the spanish cedar inside will help stabilize the RH during the swings in the environment (temp and humidity changes both affect RH) which coolers won't do unless you put cedar inside, in which case it's not the cooler doing the work. I'm speaking from actual experience, not because some mystery guru told me it's true. Summary: a cooler has a minuscule advantage in extreme and rapid temperature changes but overall a high quality humidor is better at dealing with temperature and humidity changes in it's environment.
> 
> You don't have to agree or even believe it, but resorting to name calling tells me you simply don't have anything intelligent to say. I've seen your type come and go here and I suspect I'll still be here long after you're gone.


I agree 100%. I think the main advantage of the cooler is the economical option it gives you, so you can invest in more boxes of cigars and less into humidors.

There is no comparison to the environment a WELL BUILT humidor can give you. I use a Diamond Crown, made by Reed & Barton in the US, and I have had fantastic results. The cedar is very forgiving when opening and closing often on days I am going to enjoy my cigars. The humidity is back in the box at my desired level within around a half an hour or so after opening a few times.

IMO, the cooler is a compromise (less than ideal, but cheap and works pretty good), but a well built humidor is the perfect solution. It is, however, imperative to spend the money up front and get something that will perform. Because I can't get another US made Reed & Barton, my next will be a Waxing Moon. It's an investment in my time so I don't have to bang my head against the wall trying to chase humidity in an inferior Chinese box.

I can't see skimping on storing my very expensive collection. YMMV.


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## The Wolverine (Jun 19, 2013)

You should also look at Daniel Marshall they have good deals directly from his site.


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## cigarshopper (Dec 12, 2013)

Humidors are a waste of money and time. If anything, they're a vanity item. You don't need them. If your buy a cooler and prep it well, (cedar line it and condition it) you have a larger storage unit, especially if you have a large collection of cigars. I've used humidors in the past (good humidors) and they just don't cut it in New England with the large fluctuation in temperature and humidity. Use whatever you want, and what works best for you.

"Ok, I'll explain it so even you can understand, although I doubt you will." hahaha! ... So says The Bazooka Blowhard


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## apollo (Jan 11, 2014)

The Wolverine said:


> You should also look at Daniel Marshall they have good deals directly from his site.


Thanks, will do!

I will say though, I like the thought of supporting a one man show building humidors out of the back of his home.

My overall point is: buy once, cry once (or at least until the collection gets too big)! Get a _quality_ box to protect your _quality_ cigars.


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## cprsquared (Feb 13, 2013)

Let me *cautiously* enter this part of the conversation! Hey David, I'm the Business Development Director at Boveda and we've tested all kinds of containers for moisture control not only for cigars, but also guitars, food, electronics, medical devices, medical marijuana and a bunch of others. Guitar cases are the least efficient storage container, followed by wood humidors. On the other end of the spectrum are flip-top coolers. You can imagine submerging a tightly closed wood humidor and a tightly closed cooler in a swimming pool overnight. When you pull them out the next day, the humidor would be full of water inside, the cooler much less so, if at all. That's an extreme example, but water vapor acts in the same way. It will transfer through the seals, of course, but also through the walls of the humidor. Because moisture won't escape through the walls of a cooler, the only place it can escape (and it will to some degree) is through the seal.

That efficiency (along with the practical need for more space!) is why we use coolers to age hundreds of boxes in various places in our office. We throw a pile of Boveda in and check them every 6 months. You can see the date we wrote on the seal - 9.2.13. 6 Boveda that still have a bunch of life in them after 4 months are protecting about 30 boxes.

Thank you very much for your business, let me know if I can ever be of help. Cheers!


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## apollo (Jan 11, 2014)

cprsquared said:


> Let me *cautiously* enter this part of the conversation! Hey David, I'm the Business Development Director at Boveda and we've tested all kinds of containers for moisture control not only for cigars, but also guitars, food, electronics, medical devices, medical marijuana and a bunch of others. Guitar cases are the least efficient storage container, followed by wood humidors. On the other end of the spectrum are flip-top coolers. You can imagine submerging a tightly closed wood humidor and a tightly closed cooler in a swimming pool overnight. When you pull them out the next day, the humidor would be full of water inside, the cooler much less so, if at all. That's an extreme example, but water vapor acts in the same way. It will transfer through the seals, of course, but also through the walls of the humidor. Because moisture won't escape through the walls of a cooler, the only place it can escape (and it will to some degree) is through the seal.
> 
> That efficiency (along with the practical need for more space!) is why we use coolers to age hundreds of boxes in various places in our office. We throw a pile of Boveda in and check them every 6 months. You can see the date we wrote on the seal - 9.2.13. 6 Boveda that still have a bunch of life in them after 4 months are protecting about 30 boxes.
> 
> ...


Very interesting Charlie! So it only takes 6 Boveda to take care of that huge cooler? Having to use only 6 packs would sway my opinion of the cooler method for sure.

Any issue with "seasoning" the boxes, or just toss them in?

Thanks!


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## cprsquared (Feb 13, 2013)

Yessir, we've been doing it this way for years. We're advocates for making your life simple, along with providing value with predictable cigar aging perfection and very little effort, so coolers are our suggestion for mass storage. We use wood humidors for things we could smoke at any time. (There are 3 in my office) Six Boveda work well in that cooler. I'm guessing we'll get a total of 8-9 months from that Boveda set. If we wanted 16-19, we'd use 12. The only thing you need to worry about is using *enough*, because it's impossible to use too much, since Boveda will never humidify beyond the RH on the pack. No seasoning, just toss those puppies in. I hope that saves you a lot of $ and hassle!


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## bazookajoe (Nov 2, 2006)

cprsquared said:


> Let me *cautiously* enter this part of the conversation! Hey David, I'm the Business Development Director at Boveda and we've tested all kinds of containers for moisture control not only for cigars, but also guitars, food, electronics, medical devices, medical marijuana and a bunch of others. Guitar cases are the least efficient storage container, followed by wood humidors. On the other end of the spectrum are flip-top coolers. You can imagine submerging a tightly closed wood humidor and a tightly closed cooler in a swimming pool overnight. When you pull them out the next day, the humidor would be full of water inside, the cooler much less so, if at all. That's an extreme example, but water vapor acts in the same way. It will transfer through the seals, of course, but also through the walls of the humidor. Because moisture won't escape through the walls of a cooler, the only place it can escape (and it will to some degree) is through the seal...


Charlie, certainly no need to be cautious, at least not with me since you're clearly able to engage in discourse without resorting to insults. I understand what you're saying in your example but my experience with coolers doesn't bear this out, possibly because water can behave differently than a combination of water vapor and air and wood humidors were designed for the latter. I'm an applications engineer and many times in testing, the slightest change in conditions or variables can dramatically change results, often in ways that don't make sense given what is already known about the materials involved. For the purpose of this discussion I'm content to look at my own actual experience rather than theory. The conditions you test under may benefit you in developing products and technologies but they may not be applicable to my particular situation.

I have several coolers and humidors in various locations at my house, in one case an Aristocrat humidor and a large Coleman Xtreme cooler side by side in a location that averages ~70% RH most of the time (I live near the coast). Both use the same 65% beads for humidification in quantities that amount to the same bead to space ratio in each. The same hygrometer is used to measure RH in each unit. The humidor is consistently 64-65% RH and the cooler is consistently 70-71%. Regardless of how/why etc. the humidor is doing a better job. I have the same experience in another location that sees much higher temps. and lower RH. If I had to guess I'd say that my humidors seal better.

What works for me in my environment may not work as well for others. Whether it's beads, kitty litter, Boveda packs, spanish cedar, copper etc. there are many diverse experiences, preferences and results. Bottom line is there is no "right" way to do things. People should use whatever methods or materials provide them with the satisfaction and enjoyment they want from this hobby. The only time I generally speak up is when someone's comments stray from opinion to declaration of "facts" which simply aren't true in all cases, therefore not facts. I enjoy a spirited and healthy debate unless or until someone resorts to insults or belittling which has no place here...


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## jjashikki (Dec 19, 2013)

cprsquared said:


> No seasoning, just toss those puppies in. I hope that saves you a lot of $ and hassle!


Charlie, thanks so much for your input into this thread, it's much appreciated and I have a few question about the Boveda packets that I'm hoping you can help me with.

1) I know that the Boveda website says that you need one for the humidor itself and one for every 50 cigars of storage capacity. I'm assuming that the 1 pack per 50 cigars still applies to coolers but what about the one for the humidor itself? Since you still have cedar boxes in the cooler would you have to add an additional one or two depending on how many boxes you have in the cooler and how many would that be? Or do you have to add one for the humidor because of the inherent moisture exchange between the humidor and ambient?

2) The website is also very emphatic that it's 1 pack per 50 cigars of capacity so does that mean that with a 50 quart cooler I'd still need a minimum of around 5 packets regardless of how many boxes I have in there?

3) I'm also in the midst of setting up a cooler for cigar storage and my understanding is that you still have to season it if you're adding any cedar to allow the cedar to absorb the right amount of moisture. But this was with HCM beads so I can see it being different with Boveda packs. Is the seasoning unnecessary with Boveda packs because of they will always output to 65% RH or should you still allow some time for cedar boxes to acclimate prior to adding cigars. This is more for a first time set up with around 6 or 7 boxes since I feel like adding a box at a time wouldn't be an issue.

Thanks for any answers you can provide me.

David, what kind of beads are you using for your cooler and have you checked if they're still outputting to 65% RH? If you live in a 70% area by the coast and your beads are at 70% it sounds like they were left out and absorbed to that humidity but if not let me know. I ask because I've got some 65% beads on the way for my cooler and I don't really like my cigars to be at 70% so I'm curious as to whether this is something that's common with beads in a cooler or if it's a YMMV kind of thing.


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## bazookajoe (Nov 2, 2006)

jjashikki said:


> ...
> 
> David, what kind of beads are you using for your cooler and have you checked if they're still outputting to 65% RH? If you live in a 70% area by the coast and your beads are at 70% it sounds like they were left out and absorbed to that humidity but if not let me know. I ask because I've got some 65% beads on the way for my cooler and I don't really like my cigars to be at 70% so I'm curious as to whether this is something that's common with beads in a cooler or if it's a YMMV kind of thing.


Aaron, it's definitely a ymmv kind of thing. In my case, the beads in the cooler are saturated because the cooler is not completely sealing out the RH around it. They don't output, they absorb and release (probably what you meant). My humidor on the other hand either seals better or the mass of wood inside (it's fairly large, bigger than my cooler) is absorbing moisture, but whichever it is the beads are not overtaxed and are able to moderate the RH at 65%.

Let me mention at this point that Boveda packs work very well-I use them when I ship cigars to the troops so no one has to give the humidity issue a second thought.


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## jjashikki (Dec 19, 2013)

bazookajoe said:


> Aaron, it's definitely a ymmv kind of thing. In my case, the beads in the cooler are saturated because the cooler is not completely sealing out the RH around it. They don't output, they absorb and release (probably what you meant). My humidor on the other hand either seals better or the mass of wood inside (it's fairly large, bigger than my cooler) is absorbing moisture, but whichever it is the beads are not overtaxed and are able to moderate the RH at 65%.


Ahh ok that makes sense. I'm in a relatively low humidity area so I don't think I'll have this problem but I wont really know until the spring or summer. And yes I've used the Boveda packs before but I got the HCM beads because of the ammonia issue with coolers, though this may not be an issue with enough boxes in there. Thanks for the input/quick response.


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## GoMets (Sep 25, 2013)

05Venturer said:


> Hey everyone,
> I have a new 50 count humidor that I completed seasoning and now I am having a terrible time keeping the humidity up on. I have about 40 sticks in it right now. I have a Boveda 72, a container of RH beads and still cant get over 62%. This mornign I also added a shotglass of distilled water to try to help, I will have to removed cigars to add anything else.
> Any help would be appreciated.:baby:


If you have an old cooler sitting around stick the humi in there. That will lesson the temp swings and the rh swings as well. Toss in a sponge or two with Distilled water in the bottom to create a more humid (and sealed) environment for your humi. I did that with my humi's and everything stabilized after a day or two. The dry cold months are rough


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## cprsquared (Feb 13, 2013)

jjashikki said:


> Charlie, thanks so much for your input into this thread, it's much appreciated and I have a few question about the Boveda packets that I'm hoping you can help me with.
> 
> 1) I know that the Boveda website says that you need one for the humidor itself and one for every 50 cigars of storage capacity. I'm assuming that the 1 pack per 50 cigars still applies to coolers but what about the one for the humidor itself? Since you still have cedar boxes in the cooler would you have to add an additional one or two depending on how many boxes you have in the cooler and how many would that be? Or do you have to add one for the humidor because of the inherent moisture exchange between the humidor and ambient?
> 
> ...


Happy to be of help, Aaron!

1. An old version of our site did mention adding a Boveda for the humidor, but we've modified that to 1 Boveda per 25 cigar capacity, even if it isn't full of cigars. This new tack takes into account some humidors that breathe a little more than usual. Since Boveda is the only product that won't over-humidify, your only concern is having enough horsepower (number of Bovedas).

2. Just to make sure we're talking the same thing, we suggest 1 per 25 in a wood humidor, 1 per 50 in a cooler. Again, you'll never buy more Boveda than you need, because using more than the minimum will last longer. So you can use the minimum and replace at "A" interval, or you could use twice as many and replace at "A x 2".

3. If the boxes have been stored around the target RH, you can just toss as many in at a time as you want. If they're a little dry, Boveda will run a little low until the boxes (and cigars) get the intended moisture. From there, Boveda will stop adding moisture and make the usual fine-tuning at the RH you've chosen.

4. We've got a hot debate going on regarding beads on another thread. Here's a pre-wet bag we received today, 1.20.14. It illustrates that reality doesn't live up to marketing and that if you were expecting to toss these in a humidor or container, you'd be rather....... disappointed. I tell people that if you don't want buy the simple perfection of Boveda, save the money and wet an old sock instead of buying beads. You'll get the exact same results.


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## cprsquared (Feb 13, 2013)

Agreed. Certainly different quality plays a part of whether a cooler is better than a humidor. We happen to have landed on coolers that are very efficient. Thanks for letting us be a part of the discussion, let me know if I can be future help!


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## huskers (Oct 2, 2012)

bazookajoe said:


> Terrible advice and simply not true.* A well made humidor will seal substantially better than a cooler*. I have several humidors and coolers and the only advantage the coolers have is cost and an extremely marginal benefit of slowing temp changes. Humidors on the other hand have the advantage of helping to mitigate changes in the environment much better than plastic coolers. It sounds like you are sealing your cigars in ziplocs with Boveda packs, in which case you don't even need a humidor or cooler. You could put them in a cardboard box in your closet...
> 
> *Also, if the cigars are fresh (and you're not long term aging) they give off ammonia and they need more air flow than opening the drain plug a couple of times a week can provide*. If you're happy with your set-up and enjoy your cigars that's whats most important, but don't assume what's best for you is what's best for everyone and toss out blanket statements that* contradict *the experience of others.


I'm a bit confused by this statement. You say that a humidor seals SUBSTANTIALLY better than a cooler but then you go on to say that a cooler needs more airflow than opening the drain once in a while.

The way I read that is the humidor provides more airflow than a cooler but how is that possible if the cooler seals better?


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## jjashikki (Dec 19, 2013)

huskers said:


> I'm a bit confused by this statement. You say that a humidor seals SUBSTANTIALLY better than a cooler but then you go on to say that a cooler needs more airflow than opening the drain once in a while.
> 
> The way I read that is the humidor provides more airflow than a cooler but how is that possible if the cooler seals better?


What he's referring to are two different things. Coolers need to be opened only if they don't have enough spanish cedar to absorb the ammonia he was referring to. Humidors do have enough so you don't need to circulate the air to get the ammonia out.


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## huskers (Oct 2, 2012)

jjashikki said:


> What he's referring to are two different things. Coolers need to be opened only if they don't have enough spanish cedar to absorb the ammonia he was referring to. Humidors do have enough so you don't need to circulate the air to get the ammonia out.


gotcha.

On aside note, I've never seen anyone just throw a bunch of single cigars in a cooler and call it good.

All the ones I've see have either ad some cedar shelves, lined with it or had cedar boxes inside.


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## huskers (Oct 2, 2012)

cprsquared said:


> Happy to be of help, Aaron!
> 
> 1. An old version of our site did mention adding a Boveda for the humidor, but we've modified that to 1 Boveda per 25 cigar capacity, even if it isn't full of cigars. This new tack takes into account some humidors that breathe a little more than usual. Since Boveda is the only product that won't over-humidify, your only concern is having enough horsepower (number of Bovedas).
> 
> ...


This is why you need to buy beads from a reputable company and not from ebay.

Beads work great when you buy to good ones and follow the directions...........Right Charlie?


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## The Wolverine (Jun 19, 2013)

I use beads in one and packs in another humidor, they both work . You don't use both in the same humidor if the packs are not enough just put in another one. Again one for the box and one for every 25 cigars you have a 50 count box that's two. You can also add one of the little packs that come with cigar shipments if the humidity is not enough. It all depends on how good the seal quality of the box. You seasoned it long enough right.. then with cigars in that are not bone dry it should work.( and no glass top ones imho)


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## jjashikki (Dec 19, 2013)

huskers said:


> gotcha.
> 
> On aside note, I've never seen anyone just throw a bunch of single cigars in a cooler and call it good.
> 
> All the ones I've see have either ad some cedar shelves, lined with it or had cedar boxes inside.


Yeah i've never really seen anyone do that either. But since I haven't seen an equation for volume of cedar to volume of tobacco I feel like a cooler should just be opened every once in a while.

This could actually be something interesting to investigate. Although I could see the amount of ammonia that a cigar gives off to vary a lot.


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## huskers (Oct 2, 2012)

jjashikki said:


> Yeah i've never really seen anyone do that either. But since I haven't seen an equation for volume of cedar to volume of tobacco I feel like a cooler should just be opened every once in a while.
> 
> This could actually be something interesting to investigate. Although I could see the amount of ammonia that a cigar gives off to vary a lot.


yep, I agree.


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## WNYTony (Feb 12, 2014)

Charlie - thanks for all your words of wisdom in the forums. I've had my share of humidity issues here in the chilly Northeast and based on everything I've read and the video (Boveda versus the competition) I'm going to pull the beads and give Boveda a try. A question I had that I haven't seen asked or answered is - any problem with standing them upright against the walls of a wooden humidor ? I see there is a 4 pack holder that I assume holds the large size, but will 1 on top of the other really work all that well versus just 2 singles hanging under the tray and 2 standing upright. It seems to me that being more spread out would be better, but you're the expert.
Thanks, Tony


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## gsantarelli1 (Dec 13, 2011)

One of my humidors totally dried out. Bad seal from day 1 (Salvador humidor). All my sticks are now in tupperware containers with Boveda. It is truly the best and most effortless medium of humidification out there. 

I may stop using wood humidors all together.


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## cprsquared (Feb 13, 2013)

Hey Tony! Your life it about to get really, really easy. At the cigar storage part, anyway. The Boveda can go anywhere in the humidor, in any orientation. We happen to space Boveda out in our humidors, but because there's natural air circulation happening in any case, it's not critical. The cedar holders are a really elegant way of getting the Boveda out of the way. So since performance with either method will both be ideal, you can decide whether holder(s) make sense for you. Thank you very much for your business, let me know when I can be more help. Cheers! Charlie


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## SeanTheEvans (Dec 13, 2013)

huskers said:


> This is why you need to buy beads from a reputable company and not from ebay.
> 
> Beads work great when you buy to good ones and follow the directions...........Right Charlie?


Absolutely. Although they do have a prerequisite of knowing how to read in order to use them, like *all* humidification products.


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