# Real or Fake



## mustang1 (Oct 11, 2007)

With some recent posts about fakes I got a little nervous about my most recent purchase. It arrived today and I crawled all over it. 

I need some expert advice for I am suspecting these to be fakes based on what I have read on the stickies, search and recent posts. 


Here is the box as it arrived minus shrink wrap. What first caught my eye were the words "Hand Made" written in English. I don't know if this is normal as this is my first box of Punch Punch. 



Here is the box code for July of 2007 and the letters BLP. I can't find what that means anywhere. The hallmark feels like it is burned in although slightly. I can feel the lettering. 



And here the warranty seal displaying the two letters and six numbers. The thing that irks me on this is the color of the seal. From what I have read and seen it should be a darker green color (being from 07'). I can make out some micro-printing although barely, my loupe isn't very good. And I don't have a UV light handy to see the COA. 



The Habanos sticker lacking the two thin black stripes above and below the word "Habanos". Sorry pic sucks. 



When I opened them the corner of the paper was stuck to the lid of the box. I had read that some fakes are made and boxed literally before the glue dries. 



And lastly the piece of wood used to seperate the bottom and top layer. The finger hole, from what I have read, is supposed to be a half moon or crescent shape. 

Here's some misc. shots.





Sorry for the huge post. What do you think? I can't or more honestly don't want to decide.


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## Don Fernando (Jan 1, 2000)

my guess: fake


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## NCRadioMan (Feb 28, 2005)

Looks fine to me. They don't come shrink wrapped.  And box codes mean nothing anymore except the date when boxed. Seals come in a wide range of greens and the way the cedar insert is arranged means nothing. I just looked at a number of boxes and none of them have two black lines above and below "habanos".

Do you trust your vendor?


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## Costa (Jan 26, 2008)

Don Fernando said:


> my guess: fake


What makes you say that?


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## Da Klugs (Jan 8, 2005)

It's all about where you got them. A legit vendor? Wouldn't worry about it.

If you bought them from "a guy" that's different.

What made you post this in the first place? You see many things posted here, everything from examinations of an individual cigar to UV treasties on warranty seals and light wavelength. It can cause paranoia for those just getting into the hobby and buying things for the first time.

Bottom line is simple. Almost 100% of the time fakes do not come from our vendors. They come from individuals.


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## bobarian (Oct 1, 2007)

Due to the high quality of fake/counterfeit Cubans, I think it comes down to sourcing. Is this a vendor you have purchased from before and trust? If not, then you may want to investigate further. But after reading 3x5card's recent post, it is getting very difficult, if not impossible for the casual smoker to discern fakes. :2


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## Old Sailor (Jul 27, 2006)

NCRadioMan said:


> Looks fine to me. They don't come shrink wrapped.  And box codes mean nothing anymore except the date when boxed. Seals come in a wide range of greens and the way the cedar insert is arranged means nothing.
> 
> Do you trust your vendor?


:tpd: If ya trust your vender, why worry.


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## SilverFox (Feb 19, 2008)

I am by no means an expert but all those are consistent with my understanding of real not fake. All the things you described are consistent with my boxes recently received from a vendor I do trust, other than the cedar separator part that I would have to recheck.

Also with respect to the roll they are very well constructed not that loose filler and binder I have seen in more obvious fakes.

For what it is worth I say real.


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## chibnkr (May 2, 2007)

For real? 

Half-moon? 

There is plenty of info out there if you search for it. To be honest, (1) current factory codes are a mystery, (2) construction varies considerably (3) so do serial numbers on warranty seals, (4) the half-moon cut on the cedar sheet largely disappeared in the mid-90s, (5) at the end of the day, you have to trust your tobacconist because all of the above don't really mean anything if you are confident in your cigar merchant.


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## newcigarz (Feb 11, 2007)

chibnkr said:


> (5) at the end of the day, you have to trust your tobacconist because all of the above don't really mean anything if you are confident in your cigar merchant.


+1 Trust your source


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## Funnymantrip (Oct 28, 2004)

I think you are ok.. The wrappers look good, and the color for the box was very uniform. I just ran and looked at my boxes. I don't have any 'black lines' around the habanos on any of my boxes. 
I also checked some cedar dividers, now most I have are half moons, some have been cut kind of half moony but none of those are uniform. They all look to me like they have been cut by hand into that shape and not 'machined' in any way. 
If you trust your source you have no problems at all. They seem right off the truck but it might be a nice enough night for you to try them. It might come down to what I told myself on my first box while I was smoking it. "If this is fake and I got duped, then bless him because I will be a fantastic customer"


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## Don Fernando (Jan 1, 2000)

Costa said:


> What makes you say that?


the fingerhole and the glued paper. But like I said, it's a guess, i am not sure. I could be wrong.


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## Gargoyle (Mar 2, 2008)

Please send the box to me for careful analysis.

I am not an expert, but using this box to experiment will help me get there.


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## CigarmanTim (Apr 5, 2008)

Da Klugs said:


> Bottom line is simple. Almost 100% of the time fakes do not come from our vendors. They come from individuals.


I hope you are right about this. I am traveling overseas soon and it will probably be the last time....so I will need to be able to trust a vendor in the coming months/years.


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## mustang1 (Oct 11, 2007)

Da Klugs said:


> _What made you post this in the first place?_ You see many things posted here, everything from examinations of an individual cigar to UV treasties on warranty seals and light wavelength. It can cause paranoia for those just getting into the hobby and buying things for the first time.
> 
> Bottom line is simple. Almost 100% of the time fakes do not come from our vendors. They come from individuals.


I posted this based on info from stickies and posts/links here on CS.

*Sorry, inducing mass panic was not my intention.*

It looks like they are real so I can breath easy. I did not get them from "a guy", I got them from a vendor whom I haven't dealt with before. You just hear so many horror stories. I was a victim of the paranoia this kind of post can cause and I won't do it again.


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## krevo81 (Apr 3, 2008)

They're fake. 

Please dispose of them appropriately in my mailbox or simply leave them on my door step.


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## butterbeezy (Sep 12, 2007)

Funnymantrip said:


> It might come down to what I told myself on my first box while I was smoking it. "If this is fake and I got duped, then bless him because I will be a fantastic customer"


:tpd: :r I might use that on my sig LOL


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## mash (Jul 24, 2007)

mustang1 said:


> I posted this based on info from stickies and posts/links here on CS.
> 
> *Sorry, inducing mass panic was not my intention.*
> 
> It looks like they are real so I can breath easy. I did not get them from "a guy", I got them from a vendor whom I haven't dealt with before. You just hear so many horror stories. I was a victim of the paranoia this kind of post can cause and I won't do it again.


No worries, I doubt this post created a lot of anxiety. There is so much variability from Cuba that I don't think any of the irregularities you point out here mean much. I certainly have seen all of this, except for the exact shape of the cedar divider, in legitimate boxes.


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## chibnkr (May 2, 2007)

krevo81 said:


> They're fake.
> 
> Please dispose of them appropriately in my mailbox or simply leave them on my door step.





Gargoyle said:


> Please send the box to me for careful analysis.
> 
> I am not an expert, but using this box to experiment will help me get there.


Please see: http://www.clubstogie.com/vb/showpost.php?p=1641021&postcount=20


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## zamco17 (Mar 24, 2006)

They look good, triple capped and everything. It is all about the vendor.


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## j6ppc (Jun 5, 2006)

Assuming a trusted vendor those look fine.



Gargoyle said:


> Please send the box to me for careful analysis.
> 
> I am not an expert, but using this box to experiment will help me get there.


:hn


krevo81 said:


> They're fake.
> 
> Please dispose of them appropriately in my mailbox or simply leave them on my door step.


:hn:hn


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## Addiction (May 8, 2007)

Da Klugs said:


> It's all about where you got them. A legit vendor? Wouldn't worry about it........
> 
> ......... Almost 100% of the time fakes do not come from our vendors. They come from individuals.


Take this to the bank. pay what it costs and buy from sources who have reputation. Fakes that cost 60% less than the real thing are still simply well priced fakes.

If I bought CCs I would buy only from sources known to be 100% authentic.


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## Bear (Sep 22, 2007)

chibnkr said:


> Please see: http://www.clubstogie.com/vb/showpost.php?p=1641021&postcount=20


All great points except for one... Larry really is a devilishly handsome gentleman! :ss

(This Larry?)


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## z3ro (May 8, 2008)

One point, and im still a newb, so im probably wrong

BUT..

if ya like em, who cares? tell peope they're cc, and no one will know but you (but dont try to sell them on CS)


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## Tour De Cigar (Feb 26, 2007)

where's the round blue official seal of Altadis?

Im not an expert on this I just read and try to learn, but from what Ive been reading is about the consistence from the cc's maker all the way down from the box.. what concerns me about your box is the lightness of the heat stamp and also the position of the stamp code most of the boxes that I saw and read about are like this..



in this order, the color of the stamp could vary from blue, black and I forget the last color..

also, but you might not just have shown us where is the slender piece of wax paper running across the bands?

again Im not saying they are fake or real, but like most gorillas have said here do you trust your vender.. I guess to me buying cc's for the very first time is like getting into the cigar hobby.. you try to do everything right.. your hygro/temp gotta be 70/70 if not you gonna go crazy well I know for me, in the early stages it was like that everything had to be exact.. well not anymore, you know like you had mention you was looking for the moon shape in the finger cut out... little stuff like that we look for when in the long run it really doesnt make a difference like the 70/70 theory it really dont make a difference.. but I guess buying cc's something gotta be right and exact.... :tu


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## Rudder (Feb 7, 2008)

There's only one true way to find out. SMOKE EM' Unless youve never had them before and in that case send me one and i'll tell you.:ss


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## Mr. Doug (Apr 22, 2007)

You can't fake flavor. Smoke one and find out.

The PP is one of my favorites. What you showed looks to be legit. I had questions about the cedar paper on another box that I had, and was told by several BOTL that a diag-cut is just fine.

I wouldn't worry about them one bit...


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## andy_mccabe501 (Oct 3, 2006)

in regards to the stamp - they vary alot, i've seen a few boxes where they are VERY feint, and you can barely feel the stamp, to very pronounced with alot of texture - my guess is it literally varies box to box.

how does the wax paper insert look?

if you trust your source, then its all good


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