# Cost for RyJ Churchill & Monte #2



## (909) (Jul 27, 2004)

A customer of mine has bought a box of Monte #2 and a box of RyJ Churchills. He wants to sell me a partial box (5 of each) for $13.00 a stick which is his cost. 

I'd like to have the sticks but isn't $13.00 a little high even for a partial box or am I being a tightwad and I should chalk it up to customer relations?


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## SeanGAR (Jul 9, 2004)

Those cigars should run somewhere as low as 9 bucks each by the box, shipped. Other places you may pay what he is saying is his cost. Problem in the US is that there is a huge cost differential in what different places charge to ship here. 
sean


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## Nely (Nov 11, 2004)

I would chalk it up!


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## GOAT LOCKER (Aug 7, 2004)

Depending on where he got them and how much he paid for shipping, that's not an unreasonable price. If the R&J's are tubos, that's only a couple bucks more than they cost at the cheapest shops I've seen. Non-tubos and the #2 can be had for about $9 each. If you are sure of his source (they are not fake), the cigars look, smell and feel really good, I'd say it's worth it for the convenience and known quality.


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## dayplanner (Dec 11, 1997)

They may be legit, but the price would be too high for me. You are not a tightwad, I wouldn't pay it. There are too many reputable vendors to buy from someone who either has fake cigars or paid too much.....or worse....BOTH.


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## MoTheMan (May 24, 2003)

I'm with the others on this one. If they look legit & athentic, then not a bad price for sticks that are already in the hand.

The price is not steep to me, it just may indicate that they came from a place with high taxes. If your friend is a true BOTL, he won't mind telling you from where he obtained them -- not like you're trying to compete with him or anything!!


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## (909) (Jul 27, 2004)

High taxes, you hit it on the head. They came from Canada.


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## SeanGAR (Jul 9, 2004)

(909) said:


> High taxes, you hit it on the head. They came from Canada.


Many places in Canada charge a lot more than that, those prices would be considered quite good from there. Monte 2 and R&J Church are classics. Buy 'em as long as they're McCoy.


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## cazadore (Jan 1, 2000)

Now that I know where your friend got them from, I would be worried that the price is TOO LOW. There are many fake sites that sell RyJ Churchills and Monte #2's for that price, but there are NO legit places that I know of in Canada where you can get them for that. Taxes on tobacco in Canada are the highest in the world.

That's $325 a box. That is seriously cheap for real Cuban cigars from Canada. I would question his source before purchasing.


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## SeanGAR (Jul 9, 2004)

cazadore said:


> Now that I know where your friend got them from, I would be worried that the price is TOO LOW. There are many fake sites that sell RyJ Churchills and Monte #2's for that price, but there are NO legit places that I know of in Canada where you can get them for that. Lots of fake sellers operating out of Canada, many claiming to be in Montreal.
> 
> That's $325 a box. Absolutely no way they're real AND from Canada. Hell, the taxes, duties and tariffs are almost that much. Seriously.


I have no personal experience with habanos from Canada whatsoever, but I will say that if you look carefully you can find boxes of Monte 2 from Canadian sources for $300 on sale. They are $308.75 on another site. R&J Churches are $331.25 at that same place. There are other higher profile glitzy places that charge double that amount. So the cost structure that he is talking about is quite good for Canada, but not unreasonable enough to scream fake. 
SeanGAR


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## cazadore (Jan 1, 2000)

If you believe that you can get real Monte #2's and RyJ Churchills for those prices, thru a legit Canadian vendor, by all means, go for it. From my many years of experience (don't let the post count and the screen name mislead you), at that price, they are almost assuredly fakes. 

Enjoy.


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## Butch (Nov 1, 2004)

Being that " I AM CANADIAN" sorry molson canadian beer commercial interlude...

Ya I would ask where this guy got them from ask for box code and holo code and serial code due to a lot of fakes but if you get the company name that he got them from lemme know, my sources around the Toronto area do not meet that price close but more like $16-17USD for R&J and $9-$14USD for the Monte. If you get any info and they are up here in Canada pm me and I will ask around my fellow BOTL that travel and live up here if the store is reputable, if they are not in my neighbourhood or if I have not dealt with them personally.


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## CgarWyzrd (Jun 20, 2004)

(909) said:


> A customer of mine has bought a box of Monte #2 and a box of RyJ Churchills. He wants to sell me a partial box (5 of each) for $13.00 a stick which is his cost.
> 
> I'd like to have the sticks but isn't $13.00 a little high even for a partial box or am I being a tightwad and I should chalk it up to customer relations?


Start by buying one of each, smoke them and then, if all is well, buy the rest.

JMHO


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## SeanGAR (Jul 9, 2004)

cazadore said:


> If you believe that you can get real Monte #2's and RyJ Churchills for those prices, thru a legit Canadian vendor, by all means, go for it. From my many years of experience (don't let the post count and the screen name mislead you), at that price, they are almost assuredly fakes.
> 
> Enjoy.


I only lived in Canada for 25 years...what do I know.....


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## (909) (Jul 27, 2004)

Being that "I WAS CANADIAN" I do know that you can buy cigarettes from the reservations at a reduced cost. Could it be that someone is getting cigars from a reservation at a cost lower than vendors paying taxes?


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## Butch (Nov 1, 2004)

YES it does happen I know it first hand about tobacco cheaper on the Reserves


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## SeanGAR (Jul 9, 2004)

Butch said:


> YES it does happen I know it first hand about tobacco cheaper on the Reserves


I've heard Mohawks do a pretty good business on tax free tobacco ........ to go with the gambling of course. You might note they also pay no federal or provincial income taxes, so their cost structure is completely different from anybody else. 
Sean


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## cvp747 (Jan 23, 2005)

$13.00 a stick seems reasonable (maybe a tad high) as that's $325.00 a box. They are over or around $200.00 a box (can't remember exact price) at the airport duty free in Havana. Therefore no... import duties, taxes, shipping costs and shop profit etc to bring the price to that level.

A 50% to 100% markup would make sense as everyone along the line is taking their cut.

I'm just back from Havana today and going again on Tuesday I'll have a look at what they can be had for there... exactly.


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## SeanGAR (Jul 9, 2004)

cvp747 said:


> $13.00 a stick seems reasonable (maybe a tad high) as that's $325.00 a box. They are over or around $200.00 a box (can't remember exact price) at the airport duty free in Havana. Therefore no... import duties, taxes, shipping costs and shop profit etc to bring the price to that level.
> 
> A 50% to 100% markup would make sense as everyone along the line is taking their cut.
> 
> I'm just back from Havana today and going again on Tuesday I'll have a look at what they can be had for there... exactly.


The thing about Canada and tobacco/cigars in particular is that they tax the living tar out of them. When I lived there last, a pack of cigarettes (25) was more than $6.50 Canadian. It got so bad that the manufacturers starting selling packages of 10 cigarettes (used to call them kiddy packs). Once the government realized the extent of the cigarette smuggling going on, they reduced the tax somewhat. So it is suspect to see reasnably priced cigars from Canada. However, the Indians pay no taxes, so they can actualy sell cigars reasonably priced, and much less than normal retail outfits. That is the only place in Canada that you can find cigars that are not ridiculously expensive.


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## cazadore (Jan 1, 2000)

I guess they don't sell fakes in Canada, eh? 

I can give you a list of at least 3 internet sources right off the top of my head (don't worry, administration, I'm not going to) that claim to be in Montreal that sell for the prices the poster quotes. Everything is fake as a $3 bill. 

If any of you can get an RyJ Churchill or Monte #2 at a LEGIT shop, for example Thomas Hinds or the LCDH in downtown Toronto for $13US, please let me know. Seriously. 

You can't even LOOK at a REAL one in Canada for that price.


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## jordon (Mar 23, 2004)

Those prices do sound too low (to this Canadian).

From the duty free zone in Ontario - Ryj - about $21USD and Monte #2 - about $16USD.

One of the easiest ways to tell if a shop in Canada is legit - ask if they sell Cuban Punch. If yes, turn around and leave. It is illegal to sell Cuban Punch cigars in Canada (some trademark issues).


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## KlicK (Feb 1, 2005)

I'm with jordon and cazadore on this one. My gut says that these prices are far too low. Locally (in Canada) we have Holy Smokes stores that offer some of the lowest prices on Cuban cigars in the area (London), and they're considerably higher than the prices posted above.

Having said that, I am aware of at least one native Canadian who was in the business a few years ago. His cigars were the genuine article, and his prices were amazing. Unfortunately he got busted and his business disappeared. So, this _could possibly_ be a similar setup where all of the Canadian taxes are bypassed, thereby reducing the price.

However, based on the input of some BOTL in Montreal who have tried to contact several of the businesses in question, I'd steer clear. There are too many red flags to ignore. That's just my $.02, of course.


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## (909) (Jul 27, 2004)

Survey says.......................................FAKES!!

I picked up the smokes yesterday and sure as $h!t, they were bogus.

The guy opens up the UPS box and opens the bubble wrap then produces 4 glass top boxes!!! 2-boxes of Monte #2 and 2-boxes of RyJ Churchills.

HMMMM...glass top boxes I thought to mself "Aren't glass top boxes fakes?".

Then I noticed that the bands were not aligned. "HMMM I thought, aren't the labels always neatly aligned".

Being a customer of mine, I paid him and kept my mouth shut.

All of you doubting Thomases had it right. I'll smoke them sometime in the future and laugh about it for sure, but right now I'm out a few bucks and feeling a little sore about it.


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## SeanGAR (Jul 9, 2004)

cazadore said:


> I guess they don't sell fakes in Canada, eh?


Is that what I said?


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## (909) (Jul 27, 2004)

SeanGAR said:


> Is that what I said?


Thats right Eh! I shoulda listen to you.


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## SeanGAR (Jul 9, 2004)

(909) said:


> Thats right Eh! I shoulda listen to you.


Oh, I was telling you the price was do-able. Apparently in this case, it was not.

Well, anything with a glass top is fake. Buying stuff that isn't 1- Cohiba, 2- R&J Church, or other "classic" habanos makes sense. For example, Quay d'Orsay are probably much less likely faked than Cohibas, Montecristo, or R&J, since fewer people have heard of them. Cuabas are harder to fake because rolling figuarados is not as simple as parejos. Who would fake Piedras or Fonsecas when they are so inexpensive? there is less money in faking a box costing $120 than $325.

It really burns that you got sucked into that one, you need to get your guy to send them back for a refund if possible. I know, that is tough when they are not exactly kosher in the US.

Sean


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## (909) (Jul 27, 2004)

Sean, check out the pictures in the Counterfeit photo section. They aren't a bad copy, just a copy.


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## SeanGAR (Jul 9, 2004)

(909) said:


> Sean, check out the pictures in the Counterfeit photo section. They aren't a bad copy, just a copy.


You get stuck for 5 of each or a box?


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## (909) (Jul 27, 2004)

5 of each at $135.00 total.


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## SeanGAR (Jul 9, 2004)

(909) said:


> 5 of each at $135.00 total.


Man, well, live and learn, at least you're not out megabux like the other guy. You going to delicately point to the cigarnexus site? Man, I need to start rebanding those Professor Silas I have iced....


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## cazadore (Jan 1, 2000)

SeanGAR said:


> Oh, I was telling you the price was do-able. Apparently in this case, it was not.
> 
> Well, anything with a glass top is fake. Buying stuff that isn't 1- Cohiba, 2- R&J Church, or other "classic" habanos makes sense. For example, Quay d'Orsay are probably much less likely faked than Cohibas, Montecristo, or R&J, since fewer people have heard of them. Cuabas are harder to fake because rolling figuarados is not as simple as parejos. Who would fake Piedras or Fonsecas when they are so inexpensive? there is less money in faking a box costing $120 than $325.
> 
> ...


My point was that you believed that you could purchase real Habanos RyJ Churchills and Monte #2's from a legitimate source in Canada for the prices that (909) said he paid for them. With the outrageous taxes, duties and tariffs that's a virual impossibility. So if you said it was possible, the ONLY possibility was that the cigars were fakes.

No offence meant. It's just that too many people are being taken on the cigar boards lately by people selling fakes. To imply that someone can get those REAL HABANOS cigars, FROM CANADA, at those prices is gross misinformation. If people believed that, then they could stumble on one of the web sites claiming to be in Montreal, see those prices, remember what you said and then get ripped off.


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## coppertop (Dec 29, 2003)

cazadore said:


> My point was that you believed that you could purchase real Habanos RyJ Churchills and Monte #2's from a legitimate source in Canada for the prices that (909) said he paid for them. With the outrageous taxes, duties and tariffs that's a virual impossibility. So if you said it was possible, the ONLY possibility was that the cigars were fakes.
> 
> No offence meant. It's just that too many people are being taken on the cigar boards lately by people selling fakes. To imply that someone can get those REAL HABANOS cigars, FROM CANADA, at those prices is gross misinformation. If people believed that, then they could stumble on one of the web sites claiming to be in Montreal, see those prices, remember what you said and then get ripped off.


Hey Cazadore......I don't think Sean knows who you are. Nothing against you Sean, just cazadore is a very well respected member on several other cigar boards....

2,368 at one
1,450 at another
1,625 at another

And these are just the 3 that I know of. And a majority in the CC forums under a different name. So if he says something, you can pretty much bet that he isn't :BS you. And, as you can see.....he was right.

Just letting you know that this guy knows what he is talking about. Those posts aren't BS posts.


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## poker (Dec 11, 1997)

909,

check your PM's


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## SeanGAR (Jul 9, 2004)

cazadore said:


> My point was that you believed that you could purchase real Habanos RyJ Churchills and Monte #2's from a legitimate source in Canada for the prices that (909) said he paid for them. With the outrageous taxes, duties and tariffs that's a virual impossibility. So if you said it was possible, the ONLY possibility was that the cigars were fakes.


Oh, I agree with your statement almost completely, however my point was that Indians don't pay taxes, no dutes, they get gas at half the price you and I have to pay there, they dont pay income taxes, no business taxes, etc. Obviously I was wrong, huh? hahah.


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## Fredster (Jan 26, 2004)

cazadore said:


> My point was that you believed that you could purchase real Habanos RyJ Churchills and Monte #2's from a legitimate source in Canada for the prices that (909) said he paid for them. With the outrageous taxes, duties and tariffs that's a virual impossibility. So if you said it was possible, the ONLY possibility was that the cigars were fakes.
> 
> No offence meant. It's just that too many people are being taken on the cigar boards lately by people selling fakes. To imply that someone can get those REAL HABANOS cigars, FROM CANADA, at those prices is gross misinformation. If people believed that, then they could stumble on one of the web sites claiming to be in Montreal, see those prices, remember what you said and then get ripped off.


I don't know what prices you guys are talking about, but decent priced Havanas do come out of Canada. You just can't buy them in Canada for decent prices. I deal with one vendor in particular ( in Saint-Laurent) that avoids the high taxes by exporting only, and no they are not fakes. Pretty close to Spain on many prices.


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## SeanGAR (Jul 9, 2004)

coppertop said:


> Hey Cazadore......I don't think Sean knows who you are. Nothing against you Sean, just cazadore is a very well respected member on several other cigar boards....
> 
> 2,368 at one
> 1,450 at another
> ...


My point that Mohawks don't pay taxes and have a different tax structure than anybody else in Canada is correct, irrespective of Cazadore's knowledge of habano prices in Canada or anyplace else or the nature of these particular cigars. My posts were not BS posts and I wont have people put words in my mouth.

Have a nice day.


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## cazadore (Jan 1, 2000)

Coppertop, thanks for having my back. Much appreciated, bro.

Unfortunately, it's still BAD information to try and make the RARE exception of one online vendor in Saint-Laurent (of which I'm familiar) and the reservations the RULE. The probablity that those cigars came from those sources is extremely unlikely. To state that people can expect to be able to find those cigars *readily* at those prices at *LEGITIMATE* Canadian *ONLINE* sources is to me, irresponsible.

That's trying to make the exception the rule. What I wanted to get across to people was that if you find prices for cigars in Canada that are anywhere near what you would pay from other countries such as Spain, Switzerland, HK, etc. you need to ASK QUESTIONS BEFORE YOU SPEND YOUR MONEY. It's not IMPOSSIBLE, but extremely IMPROBABLE that you would be buying real Habanos cigars.

That's good information and good advice. SeanGAR, I'm sorry that you take exception with my trying to keep people on their toes to avoid being ripped off. If it seems too good to be true, it usually is.

(909), if Poker is PM'ing you, you're in good hands.


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## poker (Dec 11, 1997)

Caz,

Good solid advice to the newer folks on the board. Those who will listen will listen. Those who dive in before learning all they can will eventually learn, but at a price.


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## cazadore (Jan 1, 2000)

Thanks, Poker! You're right. Sometimes learning the hard way is the only thing that gets thru.

Btw, what did you SoCal boys do with SLR? Don't see him around much. Tell him Jerry says hi!


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## poker (Dec 11, 1997)

He's still around. See him most Saturdays when we gather on the patio.
I'll be in Switzerland again from tomorrow till next Sat, so I probably wont see him for another couple weeks but I will pass on the message


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## cazadore (Jan 1, 2000)

Muchas gracias, mi hermano. Have a great trip.


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## coppertop (Dec 29, 2003)

Yes as always good advice from elders...........listen or don't, thats an individuals own choice. Me....I'm all ears


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## IHT (Dec 27, 2003)

coppertop said:


> Me....I'm all ears


and no brain... :tpd:

sorry, couldn't resist.
on topic - cazadore, i've been reading his knowledge since i started smoking cigars back when CA had people who knew what they were talking about...


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## Fredster (Jan 26, 2004)

cazadore said:


> Coppertop, thanks for having my back. Much appreciated, bro.
> 
> Unfortunately, it's still BAD information to try and make the RARE exception of one online vendor in Saint-Laurent (of which I'm familiar) and the reservations the RULE. The probablity that those cigars came from those sources is extremely unlikely. To state that people can expect to be able to find those cigars *readily* at those prices at *LEGITIMATE* Canadian *ONLINE* sources is to me, irresponsible.
> 
> ...


I'm not giving anyone bad advice bro. What you say is 100% true. Most Habanos in Canada are outrageous. Just responding to the part where you said there are NO authentic Cubans at those prices, there are. I know of one other besides the one I mentioned, that is close to those prices when they have sales and such. For the most part though if it's not at least 500.00 a box in Canada, they are probably fakes.


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