# What kind of premium do you put on aged tins?



## Contrabass Bry (May 3, 2010)

New guy here looking for other's perspectives on a rather subjective question.

I recently came across a local shop that has some 100g tins of McClelland Virginias (#24, #27, Blackwoods Flake and Dark Star) from 2007. Blackwoods Flake being my #1 favorite tobacco and Dark Star in the top five. Problem is they are asking half again what I could purchase these from my current e-tailer.

As info, I have no cellared tobacco to speak of. Just a pound of limp-wristed aromatic I keep on hand for the benefit of She Who Must Be Appeased. I smoke no more than a bowl a day, but I REALLY want to enjoy what I do smoke (aromatics notwithstanding....)

So it comes down to: 

2 tins of 3yr old tobacco vs 3 tins of new stock. And what a difference those three years make!Mmmmmm!

Your thoughts are appreciated.


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## Mr.Lordi (May 20, 2007)

It all depends on the availability of the blend, the age, the demand for age tobacco of that brand and what people are willing to pay for that particular blend. I reckon, anyways. 

Dunhill from Murray era will sell for lots more than that of the Lane era.

Aged Filmore by GLP, a blend still in stock, probably wouldn't fetch much more than a normal tin, I figure. Unless it is massively old, then possibly. 

I could be wrong.


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## Mister Moo (Sep 8, 2005)

Contrabass Bry said:


> New guy here...
> 
> ...it comes down to:
> 
> 2 tins of 3yr old tobacco vs 3 tins of new stock. And what a difference those three years make...


Maybe. Maybe not. My take. Save the premium money and put it into new tobacco you like. Follow your own (new) stuff through time and learn what it is you want to build a cellar around.


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## MarkC (Jul 4, 2009)

I'd have a hard time paying for the old ones, for two reasons. The first tin of Blackwoods Flake I purchased (from pipesandcigars.com, if it matters) was four years old anyway, with no extra premium, so I'd have a hard time paying extra to someone just because they couldn't sell it earlier. 

The second reason, of course, is I'm cheap... 

I guess the pipe has brought a little patience to my life; I'm looking forward to discovering the joys of five year old tobacco, but I'll age my own.


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## dmkerr (Oct 27, 2008)

Mister Moo said:


> Maybe. Maybe not. My take. Save the premium money and put it into new tobacco you like. Follow your own (new) stuff through time and learn what it is you want to build a cellar around.


Second this. No sense buying any tobacco just because it's aged. Buy some new tins and determine what you like so that later you can decide what is worth a premium price.


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## Uelrindru (Mar 16, 2010)

I'm with MarkC on that. I wouldn't pay extra money because the store can't sell it. There are plenty of stores that sell older tins for the same as new and you can always age it for yourself. You can only smoke so much at once right? But you can always pick up a few tins of some great stuff for cellaring.


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## Contrabass Bry (May 3, 2010)

All good points! Thanks for the input!

My dilema is that if I buy now, I'll most likely smoke now. Not a lot of expendable cash to keep purchasing after this buy.


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## Uelrindru (Mar 16, 2010)

So you don't have a cellar big deal, enjoy your tobacco how ever you come upon it. When you have money squirrel some tins away when you don't, smoke what you have.


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## Commander Quan (May 6, 2003)

If this is all your buying go get the aged stuff from the local guy, because with shipping you'll have spend as much to get the cheaper stuff.


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## Requiem (Dec 6, 2008)

You will not be able to appreciate some aged blend unless you know exactly what to expect from it when freshly tinned. 
I believe the effects of aging is only perceptible to someone who as been smoking the pipe for, at least, as much time as the tin is closed.
Start your own tobacco cellar, find your favorites and enjoy how they get old at the same pace you do.


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## Contrabass Bry (May 3, 2010)

Thanks for all the feedback! Makes good food for thought.

For what it's worth, MarkC's statement came to pass in my case... 
I was of the belief (based on my admittedly brief experience) that all purchases were pretty much newly tinned stock. Last night, a replacement order came in that had two tins dated from 2006! Now there is no way of knowing if this was done as a courtesy or if it was just serendipity, but this definately changes my perspective on purchasing. 

I will go forward getting the most bang for my buck and attempt to keep some to the side for aging.

Such a helpful bunch with varied perspectives, I knew it was a good idea to join this forum! 

Thanks again!


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## MarkC (Jul 4, 2009)

Yeah, I ordered a tin of Embarcaderro last month that I wanted to try in the meerschaum I'm planning to buy in the fall, figuring it would then be six months old and a little better to try. The tin arrived last week, already seven months old. I tell ya, you can't win!


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## Contrabass Bry (May 3, 2010)

Talked to the Customer Service rep. "You caught me! I dug though the tins to find those for you..."
Whatta gem!

@MarkC,

Where do you plan on purchasing your meer from? My favorite is an massive IMP that I got off of ebay. They called it "the Cone" because the rustication looks like a pine cone. smokingpipes is calling the rustication "scales". Both are applicable. It's coloring extremely well for a 5 month old pipe that only gets smoked 3-4 times a week.

HyperText Transfer Protocol://sgreyq (dot) bay (dot) livefilestore (dot) com/y1pvG7Wz01qG9oQAK2svOzfx70U7GxTZVSOcJHD3aCZCG2CNEWRXyndGFpg2yyBS-Vi5nrbBFiMLFS4cO4ZE1vXdONWYrXXHFZa/DSC03093.jpg

if you care to take a look. I'm 25 posts shy of the 30 needed to post an image.:redface:


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## MarkC (Jul 4, 2009)

I haven't decided yet. I'm looking at IMP, and at the Altinok "classic shapes" pipes.


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## IHT (Dec 27, 2003)

i don't consider 3 yrs "aged". 
i believe you're going to be paying MORE at your local B&M compared to your fav e-tailer anyway, even if it wasn't aged.

does your B&M have these priced higher than the same blend from '09 or '10?
i've been to places where i've found stuff from '00 all the way to '03, same price as brand new stock.

if it were me, i'd just buy it from your e-tailer and get 3 tins... who knows, you may get stuff from 07 or 08 anyway.


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## Contrabass Bry (May 3, 2010)

Oh, it's not them that are charging more for older stock. That's just their standard price.

I am an admitted neophyte when it comes to purchasing tobacco and since there are 3 places that actually sell pipe tobacco near me, I thought I might have come across a rare find.

Seems the concensus is: "Whoopee! Three year old tins....save yer dough."

Message received.


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## dmkerr (Oct 27, 2008)

Contrabass Bry said:


> Oh, it's not them that are charging more for older stock. That's just their standard price.
> 
> I am an admitted neophyte when it comes to purchasing tobacco and since there are 3 places that actually sell pipe tobacco near me, I thought I might have come across a rare find.
> 
> ...


It's just that 3 year old tins are not really rare enough to charge a premium for. When I buy a batch of McClellands, they are usually at least 2 years old if not more.

In your case, if they charged the same price as newer stuff, I'd buy the older. For a premium price, I may not unless I was intimately familiar with what 3 years of age does to the blend.


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## MarkC (Jul 4, 2009)

IHT said:


> i don't consider 3 yrs "aged".


Um...okay. But surely you'll agree that, whatever "aged" is, a tin sealed three years ago is somewhat closer to it than one sealed last week? I'm pretty new at this, but I'll go further out on a limb and suggest that it would be somewhere in the neighborhood of three years closer...


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## MarkC (Jul 4, 2009)

Well, that was certainly a smart alec post...sorry. I'll go get my first cup of coffee now...


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## drastic_quench (Sep 12, 2008)

None, unless it's a one off blend. For instance, if I really loved Christmas Cheer 2002, I guess I would have to shell out quite a bit because they'll never be another 02 - and then the age is just a bonus.

Now a blend that's still in production, I wouldn't value any higher. If you've got a five-year-old tin of Odyssey, whatever, so will I... in five years. If I want a bunch of five-year-old tins of Odyssey, all I need to do is buy them and wait. And at the rate I smoke, I probably wouldn't get to them for five years anyhow.


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## Contrabass Bry (May 3, 2010)

This has all been great advice and quells my anxiousness for picking up these tins locally.

I was not aware that "older stock" was/is still distributed through these websites. My (obviously incorrect) belief was that anything that is bought recently, was tinned recently. Seeing as how most covet their Virginias/Virginia blends that have had time do it's magic, I thought the only way to enjoy aged tobacco, was to buy it fresh and put it away.

Since ALL of my hobbies must fit within my $80/month allotment, I currently only have 4oz of decent tobacco. What I'm getting at, is I will not have any surplus to tide me over UNTIL newly tinned tobacco would reach the (meager) amount of aging that the local tins have on them.

I have had Blackwoods Flake in both new and 3yr old forms. Even though I've only been smoking pipes for 6 months, it is abundantly clear the difference that time has made. I love it fresh but with the age, to me, it's transcendental.

So really, it's down to a "quantity over quality" question. But now that many have stated that they still regularly purchse stock that is older, there is the added variable of "luck" in whether your particular e-tailer has older stock of that particular tobacco.

I will walk in faith that I will place an order and be provided some that has "started it's journey". 

Either way, I will still enjoy.

I appreciate everyones time and perspective on this matter.

Cheers!


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## IHT (Dec 27, 2003)

MarkC said:


> Um...okay. But surely you'll agree that, whatever "aged" is, a tin sealed three years ago is somewhat closer to it than one sealed last week? I'm pretty new at this, but I'll go further out on a limb and suggest that it would be somewhere in the neighborhood of three years closer...





MarkC said:


> Well, that was certainly a smart alec post...sorry. I'll go get my first cup of coffee now...


didn't take it that way.
i agree that 3 yrs old is closer to being aged than 3 weeks. 

i've actually wanted to discuss what "age" most ppl feel their tobacco could be listed as "aged", but i haven't had the time to post it.

*side note: while i said that you _can/could_ get a 3 yr old tin from an e-tailer, it's not as likely as going and digging for them yourself at the local B&M. if you're buying highly sought after blends, your chances aren't very good you'll get some shipped your way from '06 or '07.


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## dmkerr (Oct 27, 2008)

Contrabass Bry said:


> Since ALL of my hobbies must fit within my $80/month allotment, I currently only have 4oz of decent tobacco. What I'm getting at, is I will not have any surplus to tide me over UNTIL newly tinned tobacco would reach the (meager) amount of aging that the local tins have on them.
> 
> I have had Blackwoods Flake in both new and 3yr old forms. Even though I've only been smoking pipes for 6 months, it is abundantly clear the difference that time has made. I love it fresh but with the age, to me, it's transcendental.


Then, for Blackwoods at least, the aged versions might be worth a premium to you. I agree it ages like an absolute mofo.

Your first point (quoted above) might make even more of a difference. If you have no way to buy new and age yourself, buying aged might be the way to go. My main point was that unless you know what aging does for a specific blend, you won't know if you're getting what you're paying for. I've found some that I prefer fresher rather than aged (although they are rare!) and some don't seem to do much at all with advanced age.


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## Contrabass Bry (May 3, 2010)

It will be a gamble, for sure.

Arrrrrgggghhh! I hate making these decisions....

I have to say, this 4yr old tin of #25 is stellar! Sooooo sweet! It's how I would envision a DIY 50/50 blend of 5100 and 5105 would taste (in a perfect world).

Can't wait to see what time has done for the Royal Cajun Ebony....


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## dmkerr (Oct 27, 2008)

Contrabass Bry said:


> I have to say, this 4yr old tin of #25 is stellar! Sooooo sweet! It's how I would envision a DIY 50/50 blend of 5100 and 5105 would taste (in a perfect world).
> 
> Can't wait to see what time has done for the Royal Cajun Ebony....


Interesting! In my experience, #25 displays the least change with age among all the McClellands brown-label virginias.  Which means it become twice as good over time instead of 4x as good, like the others do. Still, a worthy cellarmate.

Ever smoked fresh Rattray's Hal O' The Wynd? If you have not, try some. Then PM me and I'll send you a sample of the ridiculously aged version (about 16 years old). Ok, the sample will be small because I'm running out but it'll definitely give you an idea of what long-term aging can do to VA blends. :banana:


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## Contrabass Bry (May 3, 2010)

I'll put Hal O' The Wind on my Father's Day order!:tu

Having a penchant for stoved Virginias, are there some archetypal blends anyone can suggest?


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## IHT (Dec 27, 2003)

off topic:
contrabass bry, can you recommend some decent contrabass/double bass recordings from the romantic period? i've been grooving on a canadian site that allows me to play some of their recordings here at work, and the contrabass has been one of my favorites lately.
https://www.analekta.com/en/album/Garden-Scene.571.html


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## Contrabass Bry (May 3, 2010)

Sure! You can't go wrong with any work by Bottesini. Grand Italian pieces in a very virtuostic "operatic" style. Unfortunately there were not a great number of romantic composers that saw any merit in writing solos for the double-bass (contrabass, bass violin, string bass) so many great players just adapt major pieces that were originally written for cello, violin, french horn, etc.

If you continue to enjoy solo bass music, you'll find the Classical period was the "golden age" for solo pieces written specifically for the double-bass.

I bet I could but together a "sampler" of pieces for you. PM me your mailing address unless you'd prefer to received them electronically.

Check out this link (doh!) to see if Bottesini is your cup o' tea:
arkivmusic dot com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=188118


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## IHT (Dec 27, 2003)

PM sent to you, Bryan.


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## Mad Hatter (Apr 8, 2007)

dmkerr said:


> Second this. No sense buying any tobacco just because it's aged. Buy some new tins and determine what you like so that later you can decide what is worth a premium price.


I third it! To buy aged tobacco takes money, but to buy and age your own takes money _*and*_ patience


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## teedles915 (Jun 18, 2009)

Mad Hatter said:


> I third it! To buy aged tobacco takes money, but to buy and age your own takes money _*and*_ patience


I tend to agree with this statement, but ( there's always a but) for someone like me who has been with the pipe for only about six months the ability to buy tins with a few years of age on them would be nice. It's not that I don't have the patience to wait cause for the most part I do. But I must admit that I get very jealous reading about the wonderfuly aged tobacco that you more experienced pipers get to puff on. So if was in the position to be some of the tobacco that I already know that I like fresh I would probably jump on it. Even if the price was a little more.


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## IHT (Dec 27, 2003)

Contrabass Bry said:


> Sure! You can't go wrong with any work by Bottesini. Grand Italian pieces in a very virtuostic "operatic" style. Unfortunately there were not a great number of romantic composers that saw any merit in writing solos for the double-bass (contrabass, bass violin, string bass) so many great players just adapt major pieces that were originally written for cello, violin, french horn, etc.
> 
> If you continue to enjoy solo bass music, you'll find the Classical period was the "golden age" for solo pieces written specifically for the double-bass.
> 
> ...


hey, i'm down with a sampler disc. i'll trade you a couple tins of tobacco for a couple :drum: :violin: discs.


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## MarkC (Jul 4, 2009)

teedles915 said:


> I tend to agree with this statement, but ( there's always a but) for someone like me who has been with the pipe for only about six months the ability to buy tins with a few years of age on them would be nice. It's not that I don't have the patience to wait cause for the most part I do. But I must admit that I get very jealous reading about the wonderfuly aged tobacco that you more experienced pipers get to puff on. So if was in the position to be some of the tobacco that I already know that I like fresh I would probably jump on it. Even if the price was a little more.


I look at it this way (and I'm really only about seven months ahead of you in 'pipe time'; I can't count the smoking I did in the seventies as I pretty much had to relearn everything, and didn't smoke that much back then anyway): by the time tobacco I've bought new is five years old, I'll have developed my palate more, hopefully be able to pick up on nuances I can't even spot now, and in general be better able to appreciate the tobacco in question. I can learn and age at the same time, which I guess is the point of life anyway, in a sense. Though, mind you, the aging is a lot easier than the learning sometimes...


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## dmkerr (Oct 27, 2008)

Contrabass Bry said:


> If you continue to enjoy solo bass music, you'll find the Classical period was the "golden age" for solo pieces written specifically for the double-bass.


I prefer more recent solo bass music from the likes of Dominic Duval, David Holland, Barre Phillips, Peter Kowald, etc. They're considered "jazz" guys but you might check them out just for grins.


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## Contrabass Bry (May 3, 2010)

MarkC said:


> mind you, the aging is a lot easier than the learning sometimes...


Truer words have not been spoken! You sir, are a warrior poet!


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## Contrabass Bry (May 3, 2010)

dmkerr said:


> I prefer more recent solo bass music from the likes of Dominic Duval, David Holland, Barre Phillips, Peter Kowald, etc. They're considered "jazz" guys but you might check them out just for grins.


I never had the inclination towards jazz. Mostly becuase I don't have the muse in me to be able to improvise. My forte has always been as an interpretor of the written music.

I appreciate the earlier "be-bop" jazz for the emerging and exciting artform that it was, but this "fusion" stuff just stinks of pop-influenced, esoteric, egomaniacs jerking off via their chosen instrument. "Yeah, I'm looking at you Pat Metheny!" Just my opinion.

*dons his Nomex jumpsuit*:yield:


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## dmkerr (Oct 27, 2008)

Contrabass Bry said:


> I never had the inclination towards jazz. Mostly becuase I don't have the muse in me to be able to improvise. My forte has always been as an interpretor of the written music.
> 
> I appreciate the earlier "be-bop" jazz for the emerging and exciting artform that it was, but this "fusion" stuff just stinks of pop-influenced, esoteric, egomaniacs jerking off via their chosen instrument. "Yeah, I'm looking at you Pat Metheny!" Just my opinion.
> 
> *dons his Nomex jumpsuit*:yield:


Early fusion was actually very good. The problem is it only lasted a couple of years before it sunk to exactly the level you mentioned. Even Metheny was a fairly straight-ahead jazz guy before the money started rolling in.  And he is by a long shot not the biggest abuser in the bunch! Go listen to Al DiMeola from the mid-to-late 1970's. On second thought, don't! lol


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## MarkC (Jul 4, 2009)

Personally, I'm a fan of Metheny. If you're judging him by what you hear on the radio, don't! HIs music is highly edited by the smooth "jazz" stations, in general wiping out the improvisations and just leaving the basic tunes, something that should be punishable by death, or perhaps even forced listening to Kenny G. and Boney M. Nah, even I wouldn't be that cruel...

But then I enjoy stuff by Peter Brotzmann, so I'm told I'm completely nuts anyway. (And yeah, I like the hard bop stuff as well; Art Blakey's Jazz Messengers circa 1961 or so when Lee Morgan and Wayne Shorter were in the group is a particular favorite!)


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## dmkerr (Oct 27, 2008)

MarkC said:


> But then I enjoy stuff by Peter Brotzmann,


About a year ago, I sold my full collection of his old FMP stuff - on vinyl! Made a KILLING! Thank the lord for digital copying and thank the lord for the hordes of Japanese LP collectors! arty:


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## MarkC (Jul 4, 2009)

Wow! I'd love to have Machine Gun on vinyl, but then, if Japanese jazz collectors were involved, I'm sure you got at least ten times what I'd have been wiling to pay. And that's probably a conservative estimate!


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## dmkerr (Oct 27, 2008)

MarkC said:


> Wow! I'd love to have Machine Gun on vinyl, but then, if Japanese jazz collectors were involved, I'm sure you got at least ten times what I'd have been wiling to pay. And that's probably a conservative estimate!


The vinyl doesn't have the extra tracks! 

And yes, they paid more than I would have been willing to pay, also. About 4 years ago, I sold a huge portion of my 1960's Blue Note LP's. Got about $40 per disc and about $43 per disc for the FMP's. Machine Gun is actually less rare than things like "For Adolphe Sax" on vinyl. In fact, I've only seen 2 copies of the latter, although I know more are out there.


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## Contrabass Bry (May 3, 2010)

Looks like I'm going to have to hit you guys up about a nice turntable set-up!


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## Eirik (May 7, 2010)

This weekend I tried the "fast ageing" in the stove thing. I first heard about it from the VegasSmoke site (he did forget a tin in the window of his car). 
The thing is I bought this local Va/Ken flake at my tobacconist. I really did'nt like it. So I packed the tobacco in tin-foil, put it in the tin, more foil in the oven at 90 C for 5 hours. 
The day after, I tried it and it had improved. Well, one of the reasons could be that a lot of the casing had evaporated. But I think it tasted a lot smother/sweeter. I have to say it was kind of dry but it smoked just fine.

Has any of you experienced cellar-guys tried this? And does it give some kind of pointer on what age will do to a tin? 
I'm planning to start a cellar but, that takes a bit more then 5 hours. 

:focus:

I also love jazz, especially live.
I'we seen P. Metheny and a lot of others at Molde Jazz festival (recomended). Personally I prefer be-bop and female-vocals(heard about Radka Tonef (married to Norway's most famous bass player and former pipe smoker))?


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## Latakius Vituscan (May 20, 2010)

Thank you Bryan for posting this question!

And, thank you Pipe Smokers for your considered responses!

I've been smoking pipes for many years and since joining Puff I've learned a boatload about the heretofore, unknown-to-me, nuance, aesthetics and economy of the art!

Now, back to some serious lurking and smoking!

-DJ


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