# Vacuum Sealing Mason Jars



## KevinV

After looking up old threads and doing some searching online I found a good way to vacuum seal up Mason jars for next to nothing.

I have a Ziploc hand vacuum pump that I got at Wal-Mart a while back for under $4 for the pump and a set of bags. If you poke a hole in the top of a Mason jar lid with a thumbtack and then loosely place a small strip of tape (I used some clear Scotch storage tape) over the hole, you can then pump the air out of the jar. The tape gets sucked down over the hole and the lid stays vacuum sealed to the jar.

It shows no sign of giving up the seal, and putting the screw top ring on should keep it tight as usual.

All I had on hand was a small jelly jar, but I plan to pick up an assortment the next time I'm at the store.

Hand Vacuum Sealer

Lid With Sealed Hole

An Airtight Seal


----------



## sounds7

I think if there is a hole that is only covered by tape that there will be air exchange over time. I am having good results with just hand tightening lids because the gasses given off by the fermenting of tobacco creates a nice seal that is if I don't keep opening the jar for tastes. (My biggest problem)


----------



## apevia

Depending on what your putting in the mason jars (assuming tobacco) I have heard of one way to do it, but am not sure how tobacco would hold up. Putting the jar in pot boiling water while closed will give it a nice tight seal, only for a few seconds. Once again, not sure how tobacco would work in this case. My family does it with homemade salsa all of the time.


----------



## louistogie

Nice I've been reading some old threads to. Do you guys clean the jars out before putting tobacco?


----------



## Mad Hatter

louistogie said:


> Nice I've been reading some old threads to. Do you guys clean the jars out before putting tobacco?


I don't Louis but maybe I should.

Op - The best way I can think of to insure a semi-vaccuum seal w/o stoving, boiling or whatever, would be to place the jars in a closed up vehicle on a hot summer day. After they're nice and toasty open the lid to let some of that hot air out, reseal and then take inside...... not saying that's what I do but if I was going to I'd probably do it that way. Some guys boil the jar and then put their tobacco in while its still hot and seal it. All I know is it would be a pity to get down the road and learn you did something terribly wrong and all your tobacco isn't at all the way it should be.


----------



## drastic_quench

There's no need to do anything to your jars other than make sure they're clean. The screw top lids are airtight, and you don't need a vacuum seal for tobacco as it doesn't help age it any. In fact, tobacco needs some air in there to age. So not only is there no benefit, there can actually be a negative impact.

Half pint mason jars are a nice size for those who won't smoke through a full size jar quickly after opening.

And finally, there's no need to over-stuff jars.


----------



## tzaddi

Here is a link to one of my threads where I have created a blend and then by stoving or as some call it "hot-packing" I can accomplish the mason jar seal.

http://www.cigarforums.net/forums/v...sion/77343-cigar-birthing-21.html#post1894195

I realize that this is not exactly what some are asking about but it does add a bit to the discussion.


----------



## KevinV

drastic_quench said:


> There's no need to do anything to your jars other than make sure they're clean. The screw top lids are airtight, and you don't need a vacuum seal for tobacco as it doesn't help age it any. In fact, tobacco needs some air in there to age. So not only is there no benefit, there can actually be a negative impact.


A hand pump won't pull all the air out, but it does remove enough to create a vacuum. If a vacuum seal was a bad thing, you wouldn't find the manufacturers doing it to their tins...they'd just screw them shut and be done with it. And if it's not aging in the tins, what's it doing?

Here's an excerpt from the Mac Baren Knowledge Base...

_*"First, 100 g of tobacco is weighed and placed in the bottom of the tin. The paper roundel is then folded over to protect the tobacco and finally the lid is put on. All the way round the inside edge of the lid is a rubber membrane and when we complete the packing process by extracting about 40% of the air out of the tin, the membrane ensures that the vacuum created remains inside the tin. Consequently the moisture level in the tobacco does not change for a long time - decades, in fact. The tobacco does not lose its moisture until the tin is opened or the rubber membrane begins to degrade (after many years). So as well as looking attractive, a tin offers the major advantage that unopened it keeps the tobacco fresh for many years."*

_


----------



## KevinV

tzaddi said:


> Here is a link to one of my threads where I have created a blend and then by stoving or as some call it "hot-packing" I can accomplish the mason jar seal.
> 
> http://www.cigarforums.net/forums/v...sion/77343-cigar-birthing-21.html#post1894195
> 
> I realize that this is not exactly what some are asking about but it does add a bit to the discussion.


Very cool...thanks for the link.


----------



## drastic_quench

Here's G.L. Pease on vacuum sealing:



> Vacuum sealing is great for vegetables and coffee, but is pointless for tobacco. Tobacco needs some air to be locked in with it , at least to begin with, in order for it to age. A perfectly vacuum sealed container will likely keep the tobacco "fresh," but it may not really age the way we expect it to. I'm more than a little suspicious about the heavy plastic "bags" used by most of these machines. They hold moisture in just fine, but they really don't prevent gas exchange, and I'm not sure they're truly able to stand the test of time. Tins are best. Jars are a close second. The special high barrier bags we used for a while for our 8oz packaging have several layers, each designed to be impenetrable to a different sort of molecule. I've conducted extended tests with this material, and am satisfied that the tobacco will age nearly, if not as well as in the tins, at least for the short term. They are only slightly evacuated to facilitate packing and sealing. For best long-term aging, though, I still recommend tins.


Vacuum sealed tins seem like a gimmick to me. There's no benefit.


----------



## nate560

All I have ever done is make sure the jars are clean I use half pint jars good for 2oz. Fill them up put the lid on and screw tight never had a problem. Just opened a jar of FVF from 2000 still moist much darker alot of sugar build up folded and stuffed very nice to say the least. IMO no need for wax, tape or what ever make sure there clean lid tight and look forward to some good stuff down the road only my opinion.


----------



## Mad Hatter

I think a vaccuum sealed tin is simply proof that its airtight, the same reason I'd want a vaccuum seal on my mason jars and a tighter seal at that so I don't hear a chorus of pings and pops when the room temp rises above or falls below 65 degrees


----------



## dmkerr

drastic_quench said:


> There's no need to do anything to your jars other than make sure they're clean. The screw top lids are airtight, and you don't need a vacuum seal for tobacco as it doesn't help age it any. In fact, tobacco needs some air in there to age. So not only is there no benefit, there can actually be a negative impact.
> 
> Half pint mason jars are a nice size for those who won't smoke through a full size jar quickly after opening.
> 
> And finally, there's no need to over-stuff jars.


This is my feeling, too. I have no experience with vacuum sealing tobacco in mason jars so I don't know if there's any negative impact but I can tell you that tobacco stored in non-preheated mason jars comes out very nice indeed!


----------



## Arizona

Interesting post. Thanks for sharing Kevin, let us know over a period of a year or two how this "tape" process holds up. As mentioned it's probably not a long term storage proposition cuz the tape will age and fail, but for a year or two as you smoke your way through your stockpile it should be fine. 

I use largemouthed Large Mason jars for my tobacco. I smoke one blend so it's been easy to do this. I pack them firmly and just put the lid on tight. I mark the top of the lid with the name of the tobacco inside and the date. I put them in a cool dry place and forget about them. I have around 15 large jars packed in this way. That should be a few years worth of smoking for me. Over time I add to this and plan on having dozens of these jars stored away soon. Big Brother will continue to tax our pleasures more and more, so it's a hedge against paying more and more for tobacco.


----------



## AcworthAl

dmkerr said:


> This is my feeling, too. I have no experience with vacuum sealing tobacco in mason jars so I don't know if there's any negative impact but I can tell you that tobacco stored in non-preheated mason jars comes out very nice indeed!


Agree. however, if you really want to vacuum seal them, FoodSaver makes an attachment that seals mason jars. I have one, but have not tried it with tobacco. I put the stuff into the jars, screw the lids on tight and it seems to work fine for months.


----------



## Z.Kramer

I'd like to add my two cents into this discussion as to whether or not you need to vacuum seal your jars. 

If you are jarring your tobacco in order to have it age, I would say your should not vacuum seal them, because the presence of oxygen is necessary for the aging process. 

Now if you are jarring your tobacco and want the tobacco to remain at the exact state it is currently in (as far as condition and taste etc), then you should vacuum seal the jars. It will create a sort of state of suspended animation (for lack of a better term)

Now to create an excellent vacuum seal all you need to do is get the jars nice and hot, then screw on your air tight lids nice and tightly, and leave them somewhere relatively cool.


----------



## Hermit

I started pipe smoking less than a year and a half ago.
I have only been jarring tobacco for a year or so.
I use half pint jars. They go through the dishwasher and that's all.
I wash the lids seperately, because I fear the heat dry can dry out the sealing rubber.
I do not heat the jars, use any bleach, vacuum, tape, wax or voodoo.
The little microbes create their own vacuum.
Yesterday, I opened a jar of H&H Louisiana Red that I put up a year ago.
I had to pry the lid off..whoosh.


----------



## uvacom

Z.Kramer said:


> I'd like to add my two cents into this discussion as to whether or not you need to vacuum seal your jars.
> 
> If you are jarring your tobacco in order to have it age, I would say your should not vacuum seal them, because the presence of oxygen is necessary for the aging process.
> 
> Now if you are jarring your tobacco and want the tobacco to remain at the exact state it is currently in (as far as condition and taste etc), then you should vacuum seal the jars. It will create a sort of state of suspended animation (for lack of a better term)
> 
> Now to create an excellent vacuum seal all you need to do is get the jars nice and hot, then screw on your air tight lids nice and tightly, and leave them somewhere relatively cool.


Heating a jar, tightening the lid, and letting the jar cool will not create a true vacuum. It will just lower the pressure of the gases inside the jar relative to the external atmosphere. That will provide a good seal, as you say, but there will still be plenty of oxygen (and other atmospheric gases) inside so the tobacco will age in that case, which may or may not be desirable. Further, the heating process will probably stove the tobacco slightly, which also may or may not be a desired change.

For jarring tobacco, I think just using a clean (preferably sterilized), room-temperature jar & lid is best. In fact, as the microbes in the tobacco do their work they will consume oxygen and create a lower-pressure environment in the jar within some months anyway, so the seal is good. Some folks go an extra step and dip the lids in paraffin in order to provide a secondary barrier in case the jar's seal fails.


----------



## Z.Kramer

uvacom said:


> Heating a jar, tightening the lid, and letting the jar cool will not create a true vacuum. It will just lower the pressure of the gases inside the jar relative to the external atmosphere. That will provide a good seal, as you say, but there will still be plenty of oxygen (and other atmospheric gases) inside so the tobacco will age in that case, which may or may not be desirable. Further, the heating process will probably stove the tobacco slightly, which also may or may not be a desired change.
> 
> For jarring tobacco, I think just using a clean (preferably sterilized), room-temperature jar & lid is best. In fact, as the microbes in the tobacco do their work they will consume oxygen and create a lower-pressure environment in the jar within some months anyway, so the seal is good. Some folks go an extra step and dip the lids in paraffin in order to provide a secondary barrier in case the jar's seal fails.


With all due respect, I am not trying to start an argument here, but if the gases inside the jar are at a lower pressure than the atmosphere that is, by definition, a vacuum. This is the process used to jar foods, and will keep them unchanged for extremely long periods of time, but I admit, I have never used this method for tobacco. Also if you heat the jar then quickly pour in the tobacco and seal it, it is unlikely the heat will affect the tobacco at all.

I agree with you as far your recommended method of storing tobacco. I have a question though. Considering the law of conservation of mass, how can microbial gas consumption create a lower pressure inside a sealed jar?


----------



## KevinV

I did up a few more jars last night and one has already lost its vacuum. I think I'll stick with the tightly closed jars from now on.


----------



## uvacom

Z.Kramer said:


> With all due respect, I am not trying to start an argument here, but if the gases inside the jar are at a lower pressure than the atmosphere that is, by definition, a vacuum. This is the process used to jar foods, and will keep them unchanged for extremely long periods of time, but I admit, I have never used this method for tobacco. Also if you heat the jar then quickly pour in the tobacco and seal it, it is unlikely the heat will affect the tobacco at all.
> 
> I agree with you as far your recommended method of storing tobacco. I have a question though. Considering the law of conservation of mass, how can microbial gas consumption create a lower pressure inside a sealed jar?


Vacuum is the absence of matter, so it's only a vacuum if there are no (or practically no) atmospheric gases in the jar. A quick check of the dictionary will confirm this, wikipedia also provides a good explanation. Admittedly it's a difference of degree (one might casually refer to the condition of which we are speaking as a "partial vacuum"), but if somebody wants to vacuum-seal their tobacco (you gave a very good explanation of the pros/cons of doing so), heat canning is not a good way to do it because plenty of atmospheric gases will remain.

The law of conservation of mass is not a law of conservation of volume. The microbes consume the oxygen & some nitrogen (amongst other compounds), and excrete CO2 and other compounds. Not all of the oxygen or nitorgen consumed are excreted as gases, and CO2 is about 1.5 times more dense than air at STP, so as the CO2 content rises, the pressure decreases (since there is more matter per unit volume in CO2). All the while, the sum of the matter in the jar does not change.


----------



## sounds7

KevinV said:


> I did up a few more jars last night and one has already lost its vacuum. I think I'll stick with the tightly closed jars from now on.


http://media.entertonement.com/embed/PlayerText.swf


----------



## RJpuffs

The objective of the exercise is to maintain an "air tight seal"; i.e. no outside air goes in, and no inside air goes out. The presence of air within, and air tightness is required for proper aging - unlike cigars that need to be ventilated often to dispel the ammonia stench.

Negative pressure is mostly used for such seals, its the easiest to create and nature maintains it for you. If the contents of the container are at a lower pressure than the outside world, the outside will try to push its way in. A good seal (i.e. rubber gasket) will maintain the seal using this outside pressure. Heating the contents (or just the container) will result in hotter air inside when the seal is applied. As the contents cool, the air (as much as it may be) will contract, reducing pressure. Since the seal is air tight, the outside pressure maintains the seal. Foodstuff is cooked and immediately jarred to also kill off microbes/bacteria/etc in the same hot air sealing step. With baccy we want those little critters to live on.

Now put that container in an oven, or in the sun - and the contents will heat up and expand. When the inside pressure exceeds the outside air pressure, the seal will yield and "pop". Ergo the popped tins after spending a few days in a hot UPS truck. When you use a coin to pop open an Escudo tin, the leverage from the coin exceeds the internal pressure and the tin pops open. Thats why you can't just unscrew it open, your fingers lack the strength to overcome the internal negative pressure.

Class dismissed. Light up a bowl of Escudo now and ruminate :yo:


----------



## dmkerr

RJpuffs said:


> The objective of the exercise is to maintain an "air tight seal"; i.e. no outside air goes in, and no inside air goes out. The presence of air within, and air tightness is required for proper aging - unlike cigars that need to be ventilated often to dispel the ammonia stench.
> 
> Negative pressure is mostly used for such seals, its the easiest to create and nature maintains it for you. If the contents of the container are at a lower pressure than the outside world, the outside will try to push its way in. A good seal (i.e. rubber gasket) will maintain the seal using this outside pressure. Heating the contents (or just the container) will result in hotter air inside when the seal is applied. As the contents cool, the air (as much as it may be) will contract, reducing pressure. Since the seal is air tight, the outside pressure maintains the seal. Foodstuff is cooked and immediately jarred to also kill off microbes/bacteria/etc in the same hot air sealing step. With baccy we want those little critters to live on.
> 
> Now put that container in an oven, or in the sun - and the contents will heat up and expand. When the inside pressure exceeds the outside air pressure, the seal will yield and "pop". Ergo the popped tins after spending a few days in a hot UPS truck. When you use a coin to pop open an Escudo tin, the leverage from the coin exceeds the internal pressure and the tin pops open. Thats why you can't just unscrew it open, your fingers lack the strength to overcome the internal negative pressure.
> 
> Class dismissed. Light up a bowl of Escudo now and ruminate :yo:


Professor Puffs did it in the smoking room with the mason jar :wink:

Good explanation. Thanks!


----------



## dmkerr

Ok, next question - mostly on topic.

You've stored your baccy for the requisite number of years and now you're ready to start smoking it. Do you:

A) Smoke the crap out of it (in a big hurry) because once you break the seal, the tobacco starts turning to dust and fungus.
B) Smoke it at your leisure, retightening the seal after each bowl.
C) Remove it from the mason jar and place it in a different container.

Please provide the reasoning for your choice. Thanks in advance.


----------



## sounds7

dmkerr said:


> Ok, next question - mostly on topic.
> 
> You've stored your baccy for the requisite number of years and now you're ready to start smoking it. Do you:
> 
> A) Smoke the crap out of it (in a big hurry) because once you break the seal, the tobacco starts turning to dust and fungus.
> B) Smoke it at your leisure, retightening the seal after each bowl.
> C) Remove it from the mason jar and place it in a different container.
> 
> Please provide the reasoning for your choice. Thanks in advance.


To me it depends on the tobacco and its age. But assuming its a tobacco that goes down really fast then I smoke it before the taste is lost forever. This can be somewhat avoided at the start by separating the tobacco into smaller containers which all wouldn't have to be opened at the same time. take a look at these

Hexagon & Candle Jars - Specialty Bottle

Once a tin is opened (Or Bulk) I transfer the contents to jars like these.


----------



## dmkerr

sounds7 said:


> To me it depends on the tobacco and its age. But assuming its a tobacco that goes down really fast then I smoke it before the taste is lost forever.


So, once you open a sealed tin, the tobacco starts a flavor reduction process?


----------



## sounds7

dmkerr said:


> So, once you open a sealed tin, the tobacco starts a flavor reduction process?


Not always. That depends on the tobacco as well. Virginias get better with age, burleys do not, Aromatics do not, Latakia blends get better in some cases but not to the extreme of the Virgina tobacco. Either way, I feel better protected in a sealed jar than leaving it in the opened tin because the chance of it drying up is far less because there is less air exchange.


----------



## dmkerr

sounds7 said:


> Not always. That depends on the tobacco as well. Virginias get better with age, burleys do not, Aromatics do not, Latakia blends get better in some cases but not to the extreme of the Virgina tobacco. Either way, I feel better protected in a sealed jar than leaving it in the opened tin because the chance of it drying up is far less because there is less air exchange.


Sorry - I mistyped. What I meant was... you have a mason jar full of tobacco that you've stored for, say, 3 years. You then open it. I realize it stops aging but is there any harm in taking out a small portion and then resealing the jar? Shouldn't it be just as safe as it was? Or am I missing something?


----------



## DSturg369

A clean jar/lid combo on a mason-type jar will seal itself after a very short time, so I see no need to vacuum seal. I have many such jars stored and all have sealed well.


----------



## drastic_quench

dmkerr said:


> Ok, next question - mostly on topic.
> 
> You've stored your baccy for the requisite number of years and now you're ready to start smoking it. Do you:
> 
> A) Smoke the crap out of it (in a big hurry) because once you break the seal, the tobacco starts turning to dust and fungus.
> B) Smoke it at your leisure, retightening the seal after each bowl.
> C) Remove it from the mason jar and place it in a different container.
> 
> Please provide the reasoning for your choice. Thanks in advance.


B, naturally. Opening the jar simply changes the atmosphere/aging. The jar is still a perfect container to the keep the tobacco moist and fresh. A jar with a screw top and rubber seal is really just a perfect resealable tin. You can trust with a simply clean jar, closed with a normal-force twist, to keep your tobacco A-OK.


----------



## MarkC

dmkerr said:


> Sorry - I mistyped. What I meant was... you have a mason jar full of tobacco that you've stored for, say, 3 years. You then open it. I realize it stops aging but is there any harm in taking out a small portion and then resealing the jar? Shouldn't it be just as safe as it was? Or am I missing something?


I don't see why not, although doing this repeatedly would certainly lead to dry out and degradation. In fact, I guess you could start the aging process all over again, but since you'd be starting from scratch, and there's an empty pipe right there...

I use small jars (half pint) for aging to hopefully avoid the issue. I can't get my head around the idea of buying 2 oz tins, and then using quart jars for bulk stuff.


----------



## sounds7

dmkerr said:


> Sorry - I mistyped. What I meant was... you have a mason jar full of tobacco that you've stored for, say, 3 years. You then open it. I realize it stops aging but is there any harm in taking out a small portion and then resealing the jar? Shouldn't it be just as safe as it was? Or am I missing something?


No harm but it will not be the same as if you hadnt opened it. Every time you open your jar you are releasing gasses which affect the aging process. It will still age but it ages differently than had you not opened it. G.L. Pease has written extensively on the aging of tobacco:

G. L. Pease - Frequently Asked Questions

"Question: So, I've opened an aged tin. Now what?

Pease: This is a little tricky. Once the seal of the tin is broken, the delicate balance present in that little ecosystem is permanently altered. You can't go back! So, once that tin is open, either smoke its contents fairly quickly, or transfer it to air-tight containers, like bail-top canning jars. The aging process from this point on will be different, but the tobacco will remain in fine condition for your enjoyment as long as it's kept in good condition. (The plastic lids on my tins will keep the tobacco in find shape for anywhere from a couple weeks to a few months, depending on the ambient temperature and humidity. Just keep an eye on it!) This is the reason, by the way, that I cellar 2-oz tins, rather than the 8-oz ones. Once I open that tin, I want to smoke its contents as quickly as possible to get the maximum enjoyment from my years of patience. It's like a fine wine - cellar it for a long time, but drink it fairly quickly."

Pease and his explanation are exactly why I store my tobacco (which has been opened) amongst many smaller jars rather than one large Mason Jar. I will never open all the jars of aging tobacco at once and can rest assured that i am not further altering the aging process. If the tobacco is in a sealed tin though, thats where it should stay until your ready to taste it. Afterwards to the jars. This is exactly what I did with that Solani Silver Flake you and I were discussing on the other thread. I smoked from one jar while the other jar was left alone for nearly 3 years. The results as I mentioned in that thread, were splendid!


----------



## dmkerr

Thanks, Drastic, Mark and Sounds!


----------

