# CI Charging For SCHIP Already



## Jonesee

I got my daily email from CI on their specials and the Perdomo Tierra del Sol is on the special. I clicked the link, was forwarded to CI's web site and greeted with this disclaimer copied and pasted ditectly from their site:

_Note: due to SCHIP taxes, the price of Tierra del Sol received a slight price increase *starting last month*, but the increase was modest at onlyl $2-$5 per bundle depending on size. So this fine Perdomo handmade remains a tremendous value. _

So for a month CI has been raising prices ahead of the tax. Which is not due on inventory currently in stock!!!! It looks like a little "revenue enhancement" going on at CI. Or more accurately a "money grab". I'm truly disapointed in them.

And they said it was dependent on size??? Ummm, interesting, I didn't read the tax was dependent on size...

Here is a link to the page if you want to see it yourself:

Tierra del Sol - Cigars International

I hate the feeling I get when I think someone I have done business with is trying to take advantage of me. CI has good prices, but I believe I can match or beat them with a little tenacity and searching. This was all I needed for motivation.

I sent CI a note with the text and link to this thread and asked if they had a response. I will forward anything they might send to me.


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## KickU2Sleep

It will be interesting to see what kind of response they give, if any...Doesn't make sense to charge ahead of the start date....:dunno:


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## Gone Dave

KickU2Sleep said:


> It will be interesting to see what kind of response they give, if any...Doesn't make sense to charge ahead of the start date....:dunno:


 Its a money grab,:bump:
A store by me raised the price of cigs, last week to "adjust "the new tax into them ..then they raised them again yesterday...:twisted:


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## sboyajian

every store that I know of raised cigarette prices last week.. it's because 99% of the people don't know anything about the tax.


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## Firerat

Cigs have gone up twice here in the last 2 weeks and will go up again.

Thank God I quit smoking!!


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## docruger

sounds like a bad case of jumping the gun


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## Chopper

Money grab.


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## Old Stogie

I believe that some retailers are gouging in order to create revenue to pay the tax on their existing stock on April 1st.


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## ghe-cl

I don't know about CI or other cigar operations, but those of you complaining about cigarette retailers are, I think, misguided. Earlier this month there were news reports that Philip Morris had raised its prices 71 cents a pack, 62 cents for the SCHIP tax coming April 1 and 9 cents for the increased cost of business. Reynolds followed with a 44-cent price hike. The company said it was raising prices early to avoid disruptions that can be caused by big tax boosts.


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## wolfmonk

With CI it sounds like an unfortunate case of gouging "'cause we can".
Very sad.


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## JDC20

Is it possible that this price increase was brought on by Perdomo and not CI?


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## Jonesee

It's possible, but only CI has had the increase as best I can tell. So... I tend to think it is a CI move.

I'm still waiting on a reply from them. If it was a Perdome price increase I would assume I would have gotten a quick reply explaining they were simply passing on an increase from the manufacturer. Right now I am betting I don't get a reply and if I do it will be wriiten in marketing happy-speak and be irrelevent.


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## sboyajian

Old Stogie said:


> I believe that some retailers are gouging in order to create revenue to pay the tax on their existing stock on April 1st.


 I believe the tax is imposed on the manufacturer side, so if a cigar cost a retailer 2.30 and it now costs them $2.65 (the 35 cent difference, from the previous amount).. if the retail simply passes the tax to you (increase sales price from 4.60 to 4.95 -- double original retail plus new tax), then there is no need to gouge before April 1, as they will still be selling existing stock at the new price and thus at some point we will be paying more for sticks that didn't have the tax.

Some retailers are not so "nice" and actually plan on profitting on the additional tax. The example above shows a retailer simply passing the additional tax to the consumer. Some shops will simply double (2.65 becomes 5.30). Recouping not only the tax for the retailer, but putting an extra 35 cents per stick in their pocket.

So while a full box may cost the retailer $7 for a box of 20, it will cost the consumer $14.

I am happy to know that my B&M will only be passing the extra along to me and not charging me double.


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## Jonesee

OK: In absence of a reply from CI I just went on to the CI online live help and asked about the price change. The short reply was I needed to call the Customer Service 888 line and ask for a supervisor.

I called, I asked and after a long wait I was told the supervisor, Trish, was busy and would I like to leave a voice mail. I told them I had some time and could hold. They thanked me put me on hold and in about 90 seconds was sent to a voicemail anyway. I definitely felt like I was getting the old shove off because they don't want to discuss it.

CI's reputation is dropping quickly right now. Does anyone have a direct line to CI? or know a manager's name??


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## BlueHavanaII

A couple of cigar manufacturers have increased their wholesale prices in March. I do not believe that Perdomo was one of them. Wholesale price increases are due to increased taxes, as well as increase labor, production and shipping costs, so they are not a consistant 35 cent increase per cigar. As noted previously, for the retailer (and the consumer), this is an increase in wholesale cost (cost of goods sold) and adding a retail margin, will increase the retail price proportionately.

Retailers adding the increase to their existing inventory are justifying this on "cost of replacement", which I do not agree with (but is a quantifiable practice).

On the cigarette front, we have a SH**STORM in progress! Many vendors increased their prices in March. On April 1st, there will be a floor stocks inventory tax. Imagine the following scenario:
Mar 1st - wholesale cost $3.00
Mar 15th - wholesale cost $3.61
April 1st - Floor stocks tax of $.61 - effective wholesale cost $4.22
April 2nd - wholesale cost $3.61

This means that inventory purchased after a price increase, but before April 1st will be effectively taxed twice, but the gov't will only receive the floor stock tax (the manufacturer will keef the rest!)


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## slyder

How many members do we have here total? Lets say its 700. Why dont we do a little boycotting? What if our 700 members spread the word and everyone stopped using CI and Cbid for a few months? If 700 people told 2 other smokers thats 1400 more people not using their sites. Maybe then they would respond to a very easy question. Lets face it.....there are other places to buy cigars...maybe not as cheap but id pay a little more to be treated right.


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## wescoaststogie

Geez you guys are like a bunch of school girls with your talk of boycotts and all this drama nonsense!

:yell: :yell: :yell: :yell: :yell::yell: :yell: :yell: :yell: :yell:

First off you don't know jack shit about the reason for the increase, so to come to any conclusions at all is just plain ridiculous. Why don't you all just slow down, light up a stogie, and sit back and wait for some more information to come in before raising the protest signs :israel:


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## Jonesee

Welcome to the pond West. 

I am not assuming anything, nor did I advocate a boycott. I have posted what was on their link and what I have done so far to learn more. If you have any information at all that could enlighten me, please share it. So far:

1) What I know is what CI posted the reason for the increase themselves on the site. 
2) They stated is was because of SCHIP. I provided the quote and the link for anyone that is curious.
3) I used thier customer service system to email them a note asking for clarification. The customer service ticket remains open almost 24 hours later. They deserve a break however because I did send it on a Sunday evening and I assume they don't work those tickets over the weekend.
4) I used their personal online help system where you are able to IM a customer service rep. She advised me to contact a supervisor at the help desk and gave me the phone number that is also at the top of their website.
5) I called the number and asked for a supervisor. The customer service rep asked what it was in reagards to and I told her. She said yes I would need to talk to a supervisor (Trish) and said she would send me over. She came back on and said the supv. was busy would I like to leave a voice mail. I declined told her I had time to wait and she put me on hold. In about 90 seconds from then I was sent to a blind voice mail. I was definetely left with the impressionI was being avoided. Both voice and actions led to that belief.

I am typically a qiet person, not very demanding, it is just not in my style. So I don't believe I did anything that would put them off for any reason.

As factually as I can I have relayed my 3 separate ways I have tried to speak with CI for clarification. None have been successful so far.

My guess is I will get a reply and my ticket closed after 4/1 with a explanation of the tax. It won't answer my query, but I assume they need to respond at some point to close the ticket.

West, if you have any other suggestions please fel free to tell me and I will folllow through. if you have any insight, please feel free to share it.


Again welcome to our little coral reef I hope you enjoy it here.


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## David M

Perhaps he is right and we need to wait for the answer but from what you described, including their lack of desire to talk to you (which in itself is uncommon) seems to point in a different direction. We should definitely wait to hear what they say though.

I dont know much about all of this stuff except for the planned increase on April 1.

I bought 280 cigars today with this expected tax increase in mind. Here is some info I got while on the phone with 2 vendors whom I bought from today.

Famous - They are offering a 1-month grace period before they start charging with the new tax. I dont know if thats connected to their existing high inventory or what but thats what they told me.

TampaHumidor - They are currently low on inventory and they plan to sell all of their existing stuff without charging the new tax. She expected their store to start charging with the new tax on April 10.

As for the people power boycott stuff. If the people are in fact getting screwed, it is a great tool for the people to show their displeasure, voice their opinions and by the very nature of the type of protest - they will be heard.

Keep us posted.


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## OracleSmoke

++++ edit +++++ a ton of posts said everything I was gonna say.

Anyone want a link to the tax portion of the bill, it can be found HERE:

http://www.stogieguys.com/wp-content/uploads/SCHIP-Taxes.pdf

Hope the above isn't in violation of anything here 

kind of a bitter first post there bro! Ya gotta ease into it a bit before banging the members so harsh. People may get the impression you work for the company in question or somethin'.


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## wescoaststogie

my point is, who knows why the price of those cigars went up early. why just these particular cigars and not all cigars? maybe due to the upcoming taxes the manufacturer had to make some changes in order to keep producing these bundles. who really knows. why assume it's all CI's doing though? do they have a history of screwing and gouging customers? not that i'm aware of, so why not give them the benefit of the doubt.

also, why get so worked up over an early price increase of some lousy bundled cigars? as far as i know this has not affected 99.99% of all the rest of their cigars, so who really cares?

i just think your energy is being spent in the wrong place. why not go out and protest SCHIP or something more useful :smoke2:


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## Scott W.

OracleSmoke said:


> ++++ edit +++++ a ton of posts said everything I was gonna say.
> 
> Anyone want a link to the tax portion of the bill, it can be found HERE:
> 
> http://www.stogieguys.com/wp-content/uploads/SCHIP-Taxes.pdf
> 
> Hope the above isn't in violation of anything here
> 
> *kind of a bitter first post there bro! Ya gotta ease into it a bit before banging the members so harsh. People may get the impression you work for the company in question or somethin'.*




:tpd: 100%, not a good intro.


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## wescoaststogie

OracleSmoke said:


> ++++ edit +++++ a ton of posts said everything I was gonna say.
> 
> Anyone want a link to the tax portion of the bill, it can be found HERE:
> 
> http://www.stogieguys.com/wp-content/uploads/SCHIP-Taxes.pdf
> 
> Hope the above isn't in violation of anything here
> 
> kind of a bitter first post there bro! Ya gotta ease into it a bit before banging the members so harsh. People may get the impression you work for the company in question or somethin'.


nope i am in no way affiliated with CI or any of there siblings/subsidiaries, but I do a fair amount of business with them and have had nothing but positive experiences, even when there was an issue with my orders they have always promptly taken care of it. i like to give those companies the benefit of the doubt until i have all the information.


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## Jonesee

I absolutely agree West. I am trying to get the information and have been unsuccessful in 3 separate attempts.

The easiest reply they could have offered was the manufacturer did it and they are forced to pass it on and wanted all their loyal customers to know that.

But: they haven't said that. the lack of response has become as interesting as the note itself. 

My guess is they are in a box because they can't collect for a tax that hasn't been imposed yet, and they will not be remitting to the govcernment for. They can raise their prices, but claiming it is a tax that isn't yet in place might be a little edgy. It could be they are either passing on a manufacturere's increase or one of their own and their copy writer took a liberty that pushes the lines a bit.

And, I order from them too...


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## wescoaststogie

scottw said:


> [/b]
> 
> :tpd: 100%, not a good intro.


yea i have this habit of calling it like i see it, and probably not in the most pleasant way possible, but oh well we can't all be happy go lucky sailors i guess.

would you rather i show you my grouchy and grumpy side a few months after joining, kinda like what happens with girlfriends? oh wait nevermind, this ain't a dating site is it :biggrin1:


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## Doogie

its a money grab by pedormo or CI. it just isn't right


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## Scott W.

Even if you just said "Hi my name is.........." before donkey punching the forum would have been fine. It just came off the wrong way but nevertheless, welcome to the pond! The dating site is Peter Puff.com, not Puff.com.


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## wescoaststogie

Jonesee said:


> I absolutely agree West. I am trying to get the information and have been unsuccessful in 3 separate attempts.
> 
> The easiest reply they could have offered was the manufacturer did it and they are forced to pass it on and wanted all their loyal customers to know that.
> 
> But: they haven't said that. the lack of response has become as interesting as the note itslef. And, I order from them too...


so maybe the people on the phone, or whoever is in the office right at this second, does not know the reason? maybe the pricing decisions are made by the higher ups, and they aren't sitting around all day to answer phone calls, maybe they are on a beach somewhere (where i would be).

you just can't expect to get those kind of business answers immediately, it's not realistic.

are you just looking for something to get worked up over today, or what? just for a single lousy bundled cigar? common man you're killing me here lol


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## smokeydog

Doogie said:


> its a money grab by pedormo or CI. it just isn't right


gurkha's got jacked up to.


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## slyder

wescoaststogie said:


> Geez you guys are like a bunch of school girls with your talk of boycotts and all this drama nonsense!
> 
> :yell: :yell: :yell: :yell: :yell::yell: :yell: :yell: :yell: :yell:
> 
> First off you don't know jack shit about the reason for the increase, so to come to any conclusions at all is just plain ridiculous. Why don't you all just slow down, light up a stogie, and sit back and wait for some more information to come in before raising the protest signs :israel:


Hi welcome to the site!

Please dont talk to me in that manner.

If the tax is supposed to take effect on April 1 on the cigars coming into the country on that date how can somebody start chargin the tax a week ahead of time on current stock?? That is my whole gripe. I do alot of business with CI but I sure as hell aint gonna stick by them if they are gouging people. Its sounds like they made it plain as day in their advertisement the reason they raised the price.....SCHIP!

Again welcome to the site...im sure we will butt heads again somewhere.:boxing:


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## sboyajian

smokeydog said:


> gurkha's got jacked up to.


 That's because Gurkha did a $5 per box increase across the board on 3/1/09.

Drew Estate is also adding a 5% increase per box, PLUS the SCHIP tax.


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## OracleSmoke

Something I don't get about the tax on current stock is, from what I can read into the bill and revenue code 5701(a) is that cigars in general are taxed by weight under/over 3lbs per thousand. 

Does anyone know where this was translated to a specific dollar amount per cigar?

And how does the current stock tax figure if the taxes are based on weight per thousand? Do they have to ask the manufacturers how much a thousand weigh per model of cigar or did they just figure it with a certain size range and above = a large cigar?

I know they can't weigh the cigars at the retailers 'cause they're already in a box that likely weighs more than the cigars inside... so how are they calculating taxes on current stock? Total count per size?


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## Jonesee

Guys, don't feed the troll. If you get worked up over his comments you have made his day.

When CI gets back to me I will post their response here and share it with everyone.


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## Frinkiac7

I snagged a box from CI tonight at the price it's been listed at for months...glad I beat the SCHIP bump.


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## wescoaststogie

sboyajian said:


> That's because Gurkha did a $5 per box increase across the board on 3/1/09.
> 
> Drew Estate is also adding a 5% increase per box, PLUS the SCHIP tax.


how am i trolling if this guy just confirmed my suspicions that it's not fair to assume that CI is at fault here? because in the case of the Gurkha's that someone tried to stack up the blame with, it obviously was not CI's doing.

but that's okay, keep calling me a troll, when i was just the only one trying to bring some sanity and rationalism to the conversation, while everyone else was all in a panic and ready to assemble the troops :hand:


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## Jonesee

Wes, have you read my posts?

Follow the link I provided and please read CI's copy. I didn't write it, they did. I am just asking for clarification. They stated the price increase was because of SCHIP, I didn't. I have tried to be absolutely fair about this and have done everything I know to do to get clarification from them.

This is really a friendly place with a wealth of knowledge. Everyone learns a little and everyone teaches a little. I always believe you don't look for a problem without the obligation of finding an aswer. That is what I am trying to do. Rather than rant about this thread is the most general of ways, help us learn why the ad copy stated that SCHIP was the reason for the price increase.


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## ghe-cl

OracleSmoke - The legislation sets a cap for "large cigars" at about 40 cents per cigar. So there will be no tax higher than that on an individual cigar. As to your question about weights and sizes, basically 99.9% of the hand-rolled cigars you're buying are classified as large cigars. The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives oversees it, and the categories are well-known to all the manufacturers, who are the ones initially paying the taxes.


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## BlueHavanaII

OracleSmoke said:


> Something I don't get about the tax on current stock is, from what I can read into the bill and revenue code 5701(a) is that cigars in general are taxed by weight under/over 3lbs per thousand.
> 
> Does anyone know where this was translated to a specific dollar amount per cigar?
> 
> And how does the current stock tax figure if the taxes are based on weight per thousand? Do they have to ask the manufacturers how much a thousand weigh per model of cigar or did they just figure it with a certain size range and above = a large cigar?
> 
> I know they can't weigh the cigars at the retailers 'cause they're already in a box that likely weighs more than the cigars inside... so how are they calculating taxes on current stock? Total count per size?


Cigars are CLASSED by weight, not TAXED by weight.


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## OracleSmoke

Yah I figured most cigars are "large". I didn't see anything in the legislation that defined the method used.

Either way, a lotta the manufacturers I smoke have said they're not gonna be hitting folks with the tax right away if at all.

It'd be great if we had a running list of manufacturers who've stated they're not raising prices immediately. I saw the videos where Pete Johnson said he wasn't raising his prices.


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## Jonesee

I received a written response from CI today. The text in total follows:

*Thank you for passing this along, Bradley. All upper management has been notified.

Kimberly
Customer Service*


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## ade06

Jonesee said:


> I received a written response from CI today. The text in total follows:
> 
> *Thank you for passing this along, Bradley. All upper management has been notified. *
> 
> _*Kimberly*_
> _*Customer Service*_


Lol, thank you "upper management" for being on notice of what you (or your sales force) already knows. So that's their best response to getting called out?


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## smokeydog

sboyajian said:


> That's because Gurkha did a $5 per box increase across the board on 3/1/09.
> 
> Drew Estate is also adding a 5% increase per box, PLUS the SCHIP tax.


thanks for the info. i was sort of mad because the park avenue went up 10 bucks a box, so i snared a box of sol cubano maduro last night off of devils


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## smokeydog

Jonesee said:


> I received a written response from CI today. The text in total follows:
> 
> *Thank you for passing this along, Bradley. All upper management has been notified.
> 
> Kimberly
> Customer Service*


that seems like a pretty crappy response. what exactly does that mean, there is a problem thanks. they seem to be dropping the ball at ci. i wonder if something changed with there state tax, but they could atleast explain though. the boycott is looking better and better.:fencing:


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## slyder

[ the boycott is looking better and better.:fencing:[/quote]

Thank you!! Finally somebody that sees things my way! Lets tear down their empire and start our own up

PS...im kiddin people, Im talkin smack....of course we arent gonna boycott.....at least for now.:chkI like chicken


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## scottericsonon

smokeydog said:


> that seems like a pretty crappy response. what exactly does that mean, there is a problem thanks. they seem to be dropping the ball at ci. i wonder if something changed with there state tax, but they could atleast explain though. the boycott is looking better and better.:fencing:


i'm in PA same as CIl(like an hour away)...nothing in our STATE tax changed over the last couple days

scott


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## JDC20

OracleSmoke said:


> Yah I figured most cigars are "large". I didn't see anything in the legislation that defined the method used.
> 
> Either way, a lotta the manufacturers I smoke have said they're not gonna be hitting folks with the tax right away if at all.
> 
> It'd be great if we had a running list of manufacturers who've stated they're not raising prices immediately.


I think Lew Rothman said it best

_"Any manufacturer who claims to be a good guy by absorbing this entire tax was already charging too much for his cigars to begin with. Conversely, anyone raising the full amount or more (given the state of the economy today) was selling the product very close to cost and was forced to raise."_

Now granted, there will be some smaller manufacturers that can hold their prices steady until they receive their next shipment of product whether it be 2 weeks or 2 months. But for the big companies selling 20, 30, 40, millions cigars a year, bringing shipping containers full of cigars in each week, they get hit with the tax as early as tomorrow.


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## craigchilds

JDC20 said:


> I think Lew Rothman said it best
> 
> _"Any manufacturer who claims to be a good guy by absorbing this entire tax was already charging too much for his cigars to begin with. Conversely, anyone raising the full amount or more (given the state of the economy today) was selling the product very close to cost and was forced to raise."_


I don't know that I buy this. CigarsInternational (I'm speaking of its subsidiary CigarBid.com, in particular) is often lower than JR Cigars (owned by Lew Rothman). Case in point: a crate of 60 Omar Ortez Originals usually goes for $120-130 on CBID. It goes for $160 on JRCigars.


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## JDC20

craigchilds said:


> I don't know that I buy this. CigarsInternational (I'm speaking of its subsidiary CigarBid.com, in particular) is often lower than JR Cigars (owned by Lew Rothman). Case in point: a crate of 60 Omar Ortez Originals usually goes for $120-130 on CBID. It goes for $160 on JRCigars.


Lets dig a little deeper. Omar Ortez is a brand owned by Altadis, Altadis is the parent company of JR cigars.

CI/CBid is owned by General Cigar, Altadis's chief competition. It would make sense for General Cigar (the competitor) to undersell Altadis on its on product, its good business. Also if you take a look, JR's has many of Generals brands at lower prices than than CI/Cbid. That issue is more of a business competition than an issue tied to SCHIP.

Another thing to remember is CBid can let name brand, nationally distributed brands sell at cost, or even below cost because they can make 200-300% on their "House Brands" or "Private Labels". They can use the name brands stuff to lure people in but they make their real money on their exclusive product offerings.


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## OracleSmoke

I thought swisher intl. owned CI? Is swisher under GC too?

I was just reading through some back issues of Smoke Shop magazine the other day and there was a good interview with Lew Rothman in there. I don't recall the date of the article but basically Lew said if the mfg. was coming to him to sell their product, the mfg. knew the line was dead because JR was at that time the leader in low cost smokes. I don't know how JR stacks up against the other large online retailers these days, but something in that comment about SCHIP lew made rang out to me, If a mfg absorbs the increase then he was making more than enough profit before the tax. Which I'm assuming Lew meant that the mfg was overcharging for their product. Then he says, if the mfg. increased the price by the amount of the new tax, the mfg was selling close to cost.

From that, I guess his intent was to infer that the honest fair profit mfg. will increase their price by the tax and that the dishonest or profiteer mfg. will absorb the cost.

The only thing that stands out in that statement to me is that the guy who absorbs the cost is willing to make less profit while the guy who raises prices to match the tax isn't willing to lose profit.

Since we don't have price sheets from the mfg. or the distributors we'll never know what's true in relation to profit margins. But if I feel a smoke is worth the price I'm paying, and the mfg. is willing to make less profit to spare me the expense, I appreciate it more than a mfg. pushing the entire cost onto me.

For some reason, when a big time retailer and successful salesman tells me that paying more for my cigars means I'm not being cheated, my first instinct isn't to believe him. It tends to set the stage for making a great excuse to increase the price of everything when you can get people to believe it.

Maybe he's just letting us know in advance that Altadis will be increasing everything to the max tax.

Slightly off topic, but I just spoke with a retailer who told me retailers aren't going to be charged the tax on their floor stock. Apparently this only applies to the manufacturers and what they have in stock.

So from that I take it that retailers aren't responsible for the tax but rather it's the manufacturers or importers that pay it and pass it to the retailers, if they in fact pass it on at all.

Wish we could see a list of which mfg. are gonna eat the taxes for a while and which aren't.


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## JDC20

Nope Swisher is not related to General/CI.

As for the commentary, I really don't believe any manufacturer will be able to eat the tax. It is a matter of when not if they raise the prices. There will be many companies that can hold the price for a while maybe even 3-4 months, depending on how much inventory they have in stock now, as you pointed out there is no floor tax for retailers or distributors/manufacturer on existing inventories. I would be willing to bet, any company that says they will eat the tax will have a price increase proportionate to the tax (or more) by the end of the year. They won't call it an SCHIP tax, it will be production cost increase or something else.

You are right it is the manufacturer/distributor that brings the product into the country that is liable for the tax.



> For some reason, when a big time retailer and successful salesman tells me that paying more for my cigars means I'm not being cheated, my first instinct isn't to believe him. It tends to set the stage for making a great excuse to increase the price of everything when you can get people to believe it.


I don't think it is a cheated/not cheated discussion. The price increase or lack of would would be an insight into the profit margin of a certain product, no more no less. One thing to remember is that this is a business and they all operate on their own set profit margin, they know what they have to get for their product to stay viable as a company.

Just as a disclaimer, I am coming at this issue as an employee of a Manufacturer/Distributor, so I am not viewing the issue purely as a consumer.


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## HooLiGaN

You can go to their Auction Website, Cigarbid.com (its ran by Cigars International) and save money there by bidding on what you want. at least its competative and I always pay less than catalog price.


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## smokeydog

XMegaDude said:


> You can go to their Auction Website, Cigarbid.com (its ran by Cigars International) and save money there by bidding on what you want. at least its competative and I always pay less than catalog price.


this is what i usually do, but over the last 2 weeks even there prices are jacked up


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## Nickerson

Seems like pretty sleazy business, although my purchases don't rely on what I think of a company usually, its all about pricing. If they are the cheapest price then I'll most likely buy there.

Over all I like CigarsInternational best, great selection, good prices.


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## craigchilds

JDC20 said:


> Lets dig a little deeper. Omar Ortez is a brand owned by Altadis, Altadis is the parent company of JR cigars.
> 
> CI/CBid is owned by General Cigar, Altadis's chief competition. It would make sense for General Cigar (the competitor) to undersell Altadis on its on product, its good business. Also if you take a look, JR's has many of Generals brands at lower prices than than CI/Cbid. That issue is more of a business competition than an issue tied to SCHIP.


Good point. I didn't think of that. I never realized CI/CBid was owned by General Cigar.


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## ezmoney5150

Friday I stopped in at Dad's Smoke Shop in Cleveland and picked up a box of Oliva Serie V Figurado. Not only did I not have to pay S-CHIP tax I actually got a deal. 

I think anybody who does business with CI need to email them and show their disapproval.


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## Jonesee

Interesting development on the CI SCHIP disclaimer. THEY REMOVED IT!!! LOL

I saved the link, so I went back and checked on a whim and all mention of SCHIP is gone. A nerve must have been struck because "corrective action" was taken.

When "all upper management" became aware of it, it became a hot enough issue that the ad copy got changed.

I guess that is the only clarification or comment that CI is going to offer...


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## Steeleagle

How can someone be "gouged" on a 100% luxury item?


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## slyder

its really not a matter of "gouging" its a matter of them charging the new SCHIP tax 5 days before the SCHIP tax took effect (4/1/09)


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## Jack Straw

Um, today is April 1, and I just checked 2 cigars that I remembered the prices of on CI from weeks ago, and they are exactly the same.


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## slyder

Jack Straw said:


> Um, today is April 1, and I just checked 2 cigars that I remembered the prices of on CI from weeks ago, and they are exactly the same.


I know what day it is......this thread goes back a few days. Read the whole thing. :nono:


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## Jack Straw

I know. It's just that people are complaining about tax hikes on some cigars before the tax, when others don't even rise after the tax. It just seems to me that CI is not as "evil" as this thread makes them out to be. Maybe it's just me?


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## slyder

ive been watchin Cbid and some cigars are rising others are not. Wonder why? Ill never understand this bill and have read it 3 times.:banghead:


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## LibertyToad

Jonesee said:


> So for a month CI has been raising prices ahead of the tax. Which is not due on inventory currently in stock!!!! It looks like a little "revenue enhancement" going on at CI. Or more accurately a "money grab". I'm truly disapointed in them.


That's dishonest. I'll think twice before ordering from them again.:rant:


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## wescoaststogie

Jonesee said:


> So for a month CI has been raising prices ahead of the tax. Which is not due on inventory currently in stock!!!! It looks like a little "revenue enhancement" going on at CI. Or more accurately a "money grab". I'm truly disapointed in them.





LibertyToad said:


> That's dishonest. I'll think twice before ordering from them again.:rant:


you guys are both totally clueless and have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. the price increases have come from the MANUFACTURERS and is being passed on to the consumers as you would expect. several manufacturers increased prices BEFORE the tax took effect.

how can people be surprised to see price increases now? this stuff has been in the pipelines for months and months. wake up man.

if you want to blame someone blame the Obama administration and congress for SCHIP to begin with.


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## wescoaststogie

oh so i see, you get negative ratings if you speak the truth? lol

common then lets have some more negative love, for a truly pointless numbering system. about as useless as all the rest of the numbers and labels people try to put on you in every other aspect of society.


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## slyder

hmm I didnt know thats how the ring gauge thingy worked. Good to know.:tape:


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## Poriggity

Another reason NOT to shop at CI... There are many other better vendors out there.
Scott


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## Jonesee

Wes, one last time. Please read the original post.

*CI said they raised it for SCHIP.*
They didn't claim a manufacturer increase, they said in their own ad copy it was SCHIP!!! If you have some knowledge that no one else on the board has, please share it. If you read all the posts on this subject you will see the response from CI and even they haven't claimed it was a manufacturer's increase. Their action was to delete the SCHIP reference in the ad copy.

As for the negative points. Maybe it isn't what you say but how you say it... I would suggest you re-read your posts. If I walked in a bar and talked to people I didn't know like you did in here, I would assume the fight would be on. Just a thought.


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## slyder

Jonesee said:


> Wes, one last time. Please read the original post.
> 
> *CI said they raised it for SCHIP.*
> They didn't claim a manufacturer increase, they said in their own ad copy it was SCHIP!!! If you have some knowledge that no one else on the board has, please share it. If you read all the posts on this subject you will see the response from CI and even they haven't claimed it was a manufacturer's increase. Their action was to delete the SCHIP reference in the ad copy.
> 
> As for the negative points. Maybe it isn't what you say but how you say it... I would suggest you re-read your posts. If I walked in a bar and talked to people I didn't know like you did in here, I would assume the fight would be on. Just a thought.


:clap2:


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## wescoaststogie

Jonesee said:


> Wes, one last time. Please read the original post.
> 
> *CI said they raised it for SCHIP.*
> They didn't claim a manufacturer increase, they said in their own ad copy it was SCHIP!!! If you have some knowledge that no one else on the board has, please share it. If you read all the posts on this subject you will see the response from CI and even they haven't claimed it was a manufacturer's increase. Their action was to delete the SCHIP reference in the ad copy.
> 
> As for the negative points. Maybe it isn't what you say but how you say it... I would suggest you re-read your posts. If I walked in a bar and talked to people I didn't know like you did in here, I would assume the fight would be on. Just a thought.


so what, maybe someone screwed up and attached the wrong ad to the wrong cigar? it's just one crappy bundled cigar that this affected correct?

you come out here making it sound like they are bending ever single customer over on all their cigars, when in reality maybe they just printed the wrong ad for one bundle. just ridiculous. seriously this whole thing is blown WAY out of proportion, and this entire thread is one giant


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## slyder

wescoaststogie said:


> so what, maybe someone screwed up and attached the wrong ad to the wrong cigar? it's just one crappy bundled cigar that this affected correct?
> 
> you come out here making it sound like they are bending ever single customer over on all their cigars, when in reality maybe they just printed the wrong ad for one bundle. just ridiculous. seriously this whole thing is blown WAY out of proportion, and this entire thread is one giant


whats crappy to you may be great to somebody else..remember that.


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## Poriggity

wescoaststogie said:


> so what, maybe someone screwed up and attached the wrong ad to the wrong cigar? it's just one crappy bundled cigar that this affected correct?
> 
> you come out here making it sound like they are bending ever single customer over on all their cigars, when in reality maybe they just printed the wrong ad for one bundle. just ridiculous. seriously this whole thing is blown WAY out of proportion, and this entire thread is one giant


Dude,
come on.. The fact remains, whether the ad print was a "mistake" or not, they still printed it, and they did in fact raise the price on some cigars, BEFORE SCHIP took effect. IMHO, thats a bad move. Period.
Scott


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## havanitascigars-cl

wescoaststogie said:


> you guys are both totally clueless and have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. the price increases have come from the MANUFACTURERS and is being passed on to the consumers as you would expect. several manufacturers increased prices BEFORE the tax took effect.
> 
> how can people be surprised to see price increases now? this stuff has been in the pipelines for months and months. wake up man.
> 
> if you want to blame someone blame the Obama administration and congress for SCHIP to begin with.


West--- Please light up a cigar and chill out on the language. There is no need to be name-calling. Make your point and then move on. Your posts are hostile and they do not need to be. I have been on these boards since Jesus was a baby I think, and these guys are a great community. If you do not cool it, then you will never learn how generous the members here are. Just a thought.


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## Poriggity

I have a better thought.. why not just leave? Its apparent he's never going to show any respect to any of us, so my thought is, he'd be better off leaving, and going elsewhere.. But again, thats just my opinion.


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## wescoaststogie

slyder said:


> hmm I didnt know thats how the ring gauge thingy worked. Good to know.


yea, it appears to be a cute little system for people "in the circle" to pump each other up with inflated numbers or something, so they feel good about themselves i guess?

i don't really know, but it reminds me of the popularity contests back in the high school days. in any case, it looks like i'm off to a splended start lol

:cheer2:


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## wescoaststogie

Poriggity said:


> Dude,
> come on.. The fact remains, whether the ad print was a "mistake" or not, they still printed it, and they did in fact raise the price on some cigars, BEFORE SCHIP took effect. IMHO, thats a bad move. Period.
> Scott


so what the hell were they supposed to do when some of the manufacturers raised their prices BEFORE SCHIP took effect? just eat the cost? :der:

Dude,
come on.. get a clue about even the most basic business functions and then come back.


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## Scott W.

wescoaststogie said:


> so what the hell were they supposed to do when some of the manufacturers raised their prices BEFORE SCHIP took effect? just eat the cost? :der:
> 
> Dude,
> come on.. get a clue about even the most basic business functions and then come back.


Your straightforwardness is an admirable trait for you I'm sure but speaking to others on this forum the way you do will not add anything positive to your posts. I'd take it down a level or two.


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## Zarathustra19

Though westcoast may have been a bit abrasive, he has a point. Its not as if every retailer decided to just raise the prices before taxes took effect. The manufacturers upped the MSRP and they had to respond. The retailers also have to pay a floor tax on whatever they have in stock, which is an insane amount of money for them to cover. I like to think of it as keeping our online retailers in business. But, I certainly see where people can get extremely pissed at this hike in price.


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## Buddha024

Zarathustra19 said:


> The manufacturers upped the MSRP and they had to respond.


If that's what happened then why did CI say they were raising the prices due to the SCHIP tax days before 4/1? Or give that as the reason in a follow up email? That's what Jonesee was upset about to begin with. I think we keep losing sight of that.

:ss :w :ss


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## Jonesee

Wes isn't telling us the whole story. He continues to say it a manufacturer's price increase. Either this is a WAG, or he has some inside information.

His defense of CI has been so adamant and closed that I am betting if we knew the whole story, there is a tie to CI, its parent or subsidiary. I've asked each time to disclose if he has any information the rest of us don't have. He has never come clean, yet continues to tell us it is a manufactuer's price increase when even CI hasn't said that. Makes one go HMMmmm...

And for the record I am not upset at all. It was just an observation on the ad from CI that warranted a question. CI's lack of response and Wes' tone and tenor of his responses have kept this thead going long after it could have died... Kind of a Streisand Effect


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## slyder

wescoaststogie said:


> yea, it appears to be a cute little system for people "in the circle" to pump each other up with inflated numbers or something, so they feel good about themselves i guess?
> 
> i don't really know, but it reminds me of the popularity contests back in the high school days. in any case, it looks like i'm off to a splended start lol
> 
> :cheer2:


Yeah a -63! wow! Sorry i couldnt find a high 5 smiley to post. how low do you think you can take it? Well good luck to ya in your quest.


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## BlueHavanaII

Zarathustra19 said:


> Though westcoast may have been a bit abrasive, he has a point. Its not as if every retailer decided to just raise the prices before taxes took effect. The manufacturers upped the MSRP and they had to respond. The retailers also have to pay a floor tax on whatever they have in stock, which is an insane amount of money for them to cover. I like to think of it as keeping our online retailers in business. But, I certainly see where people can get extremely pissed at this hike in price.


There was no floor stocks tax on cigars.
Prices have increased for a variety of reasons, and will continue to increase for the next several months. Increased labor and transportation costs, in addition to S-CHIP, have made the manufacturers take a hard look at their businesses and profit margins. Some raised prices as early as March 15th, while others have announced new pricing effective in May.


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## KickU2Sleep

-63.....And I was concerned that my ring gauge wasn't going up at all....:banana:

More on topic...I think the S-hit tax panic is being overblown(IMO)...I think once the hysteria subsides, in the end, we won't realize that much lose or increase....Hopefully I'm right(was right once, at least my wife tells me so)..If prices increase I will make concessions elsewhere to be able to enjoy cigars, maybe drink less top shelf and more swill....eat out less while at work, or as mentioned before,, sell my wife(slightly used blonde with some bagage, make offer).....In the end everything increases in price and you either accept it or you stop....I do firmly believe that the Govt is DEAD wrong with a tax that affects only a small percentage of the population. Taxes should be increased fairly throughout all segments of society....Peace, Love, and Cigars people..Can't we all just get along......:hippie:


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## nativetexan_1

I got my April CI catalog and compared prices to the March catalog. Just a sampling but:

(all in Robusto size)
Broatus -- No Change
RP Vintage 90 or 92 -- No Change
La Differencia Cuban -- No Change
5 Vegas Classic -- No Change
1876 Reserve -- No Change
Erin Go Bragh -- No Change
Gurka's Castle Hall -- No Change
Man o' War -- No Change
Victor Sinclair Triple Corojo -- No Change
Indian Tabac Super Fuerte -- No Change
El Mejor Emerald -- No Change, but are $10.00 higher on the website tonight
Alec Bradley Harvest Selection -- +$5.00

All-in-all, everything seems about the same to me, BUT, they are still selling cigars that were in the hands of the retailer before the new taxing scheme went into effect. There may still be changes coming.

PS. Sorry, but I just couldn't bring myself to check on too many of the "high roller" cigars.


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## havanitascigars-cl

nativetexan_1 said:


> I got my April CI catalog and compared prices to the March catalog. Just a sampling but:
> 
> (all in Robusto size)
> Broatus -- No Change
> RP Vintage 90 or 92 -- No Change
> La Differencia Cuban -- No Change
> 5 Vegas Classic -- No Change
> 1876 Reserve -- No Change
> Erin Go Bragh -- No Change
> Gurka's Castle Hall -- No Change
> Man o' War -- No Change
> Victor Sinclair Triple Corojo -- No Change
> Indian Tabac Super Fuerte -- No Change
> El Mejor Emerald -- No Change, but are $10.00 higher on the website tonight
> Alec Bradley Harvest Selection -- +$5.00
> 
> All-in-all, everything seems about the same to me, BUT, they are still selling cigars that were in the hands of the retailer before the new taxing scheme went into effect. There may still be changes coming.
> 
> PS. Sorry, but I just couldn't bring myself to check on too many of the "high roller" cigars.


There is a disclaimer in the catalog that prices may change without notice and the prices in this issue may increase by the time the reader receives it.


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## wescoaststogie

slyder said:


> Yeah a -63! wow! Sorry i couldnt find a high 5 smiley to post. how low do you think you can take it? Well good luck to ya in your quest.


haha, no quest in the works here, i was expecting to hit the century mark at least though the way things were going. one dude actually gave me a positive bump, but i reckon that feller must have just hit the wrong button so lets pretend i'm at -83 :high5:


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## slyder

the catalogs were all printed before April 1. So prices wont reflect the tax hike.


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## tx_tuff

This thread has gone past its usefulness, getting ugly in here. So I have decided to close it.


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