# So here we go... Kitty litter question



## Aquaelvis (Jun 23, 2015)

Ok, so before I go on, let me throw out the disclaimer; first, I have searched and read lots about this. I'm posting because I'd like to hear from the guys on here that I've come to respect their opinions. Second, please don't turn this into a sh!t storm. 
My question, I have some heartfelt beads and they have worked absolutely great. I can't say a bad thing about their performance. Only thing I can say is they are closed right now and take forever to ship. Not to mention they aren't cheap. (Not too much, but not cheap) 
So with that said, I'm thinking of putting together a coolidor the store some boxes and bundles. I was going to order HB but I'd really like to get this done this week, before my next cbid shipment. 
If you have used beads and KL, what are your thoughts? If you are using KL in a coolidor, how is it working? Any hints, tricks, tips? 

*if you don't have any first hand experience please don't post. Please don't post that beads are the best and all others suck, I've read those threads! I know beads work well... No need to go over that. I'm just wondering if KL will work ok for what I'm trying to do. I probably won't be keeping the coolidor operating all the time. 

The other option is to put my beads in the coolidor (1/2 pound) and put KL in the humidor. (Tall cabinet with hydra XL... Using the beads in the top to help out)


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## tysalem (Dec 31, 2011)

I used to use kitty litter for my wineador back about three years ago. Sadly, I got rid of it before I went to boot camp.

That being said, KL worked absolutely perfect for me. I had a fairly small wine fridge (12 bottles) so all I did was place a shallow dish at the bottom, filled it with KL and saturate approximately 75% of the KL with distilled water. It took me about two days to get the mixture right and after that, my wineador was holding 65% perfectly.

KL is a great option if you want to save some money and have a large area to humidify. So many people swear by HF beads and for good reason. They work great and will last forever. You'll also find a large number of people who swear by KL. It works really well. You just have to tinker with it a little more to get the perfect RH.

For what you're looking to do, I'd say KL should work great. Hope this helps you out.

Here is a link that explains how to set up the KL. It's pretty damn informative.
http://www.cigarforums.net/forums/v...n/276966-kitty-litter-set-up.html#post2987092

Also, here is a link to the thread that goes into detail the type of KL most of us use. 
http://www.cigarforums.net/forums/v...exquisicat-crystals-cat-litter-must-read.html


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## Cigary (Oct 19, 2007)

Tysalem is giving a great post here and I've been using KL for close to 4 years and love it. I've used HB and it also works great but as you said....the cost can be formidable esp. when you have a lot of stock like I do. KL is a "set it and forget it" type of media that you get to set what RH you want. When first setting up use about 1 1/2 times the litter that you'd use with Beads.....put the litter in a container that is shallow so you can have as much litter exposed as possible...use your imagination as to what type of container as I've used a lot of different things...even those $1 soap containers where I'd put put the litter inside and it's perfect for a 100 count sized wood humidor or tupperware. Put the litter in dry and see where your RH is in about 8 hours....usually it's around 60% so once you've checked it then spray some DW over the litter...don't drench it but spray about 5 times....recheck in another 6 hours and see where your RH is...depending on where it is you can use that formula for the next time you spray...example....let's say that you raised the RH from 60% and with 5 sprays it went up to 64%....that becomes your formula for raising the RH....if you like to have your RH at 66% then you spray another 2 to 3 sprays and you're done. Less than a day you can lock in your RH. Check it for the next few days to ensure that your RH is where you want it and isn't losing any % or gaining. PM me if you need some more info.


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## CritterBuddy (May 10, 2015)

Cigary said:


> Tysalem is giving a great post here and I've been using KL for close to 4 years and love it. I've used HB and it also works great but as you said....the cost can be formidable esp. when you have a lot of stock like I do. KL is a "set it and forget it" type of media that you get to set what RH you want. When first setting up use about 1 1/2 times the litter that you'd use with Beads.....put the litter in a container that is shallow so you can have as much litter exposed as possible...use your imagination as to what type of container as I've used a lot of different things...even those $1 soap containers where I'd put put the litter inside and it's perfect for a 100 count sized wood humidor or tupperware. Put the litter in dry and see where your RH is in about 8 hours....usually it's around 60% so once you've checked it then spray some DW over the litter...don't drench it but spray about 5 times....recheck in another 6 hours and see where your RH is...depending on where it is you can use that formula for the next time you spray...example....let's say that you raised the RH from 60% and with 5 sprays it went up to 64%....that becomes your formula for raising the RH....if you like to have your RH at 66% then you spray another 2 to 3 sprays and you're done. Less than a day you can lock in your RH. Check it for the next few days to ensure that your RH is where you want it and isn't losing any % or gaining. PM me if you need some more info.


Haven't used HF beads but this is exactly how I set my wineador up with KL. Used about 1/2 pound of KL on a Chinet dinner plate and works like a charm. Cost was $14 for 8 pounds of KL so I have a lifetime supply.


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## Old Smokey (Sep 13, 2013)

As far as using your imagination for KL holders, I have people use those plastic trays with the slide lids that hold 100 rounds of .22LR ammo. Or drill several holes in a couple of cigar wood coffins. Less chance of spilling.


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## jim_jones (Apr 14, 2010)

Petri dishes work good too.


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## BKDW (Nov 7, 2009)

Litter works great--using it for six years going strong.

Still have the same box that I purchased too.

it definitely is extremely cost effective.


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## SDR88 (Mar 13, 2015)

I used KL in my coolidor and it worked great. I used 1lb in a dish and put a panty hose over it so they wouldn't spill out. I also use 2lbs of KL in my wineador using the same method and it works great.


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## Aquaelvis (Jun 23, 2015)

Well thanks for all the help gents, I'll pick up some KL tomorrow and give it a whirl!


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## Old Smokey (Sep 13, 2013)

@Aquaelvis make sure you get the right kid of litter. Exquisicat that was mentioned above is what you want. The clay type will not work.


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## Cigary (Oct 19, 2007)

This is what you want:


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## Aquaelvis (Jun 23, 2015)

Cool, I sent the ol' lady to petsmart today.


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## stonecutter2 (Jul 12, 2012)

I used the MiMi litter from Wal mart, works fantastic in my coolidor.

My containers are plastic baby food containers (as opposed to the glass kind) filled with litter. I drilled a bunch of holes in the tops for some, but others I just left open. Then I placed some Spanish cedar slats across the top of them, I had from cut those off some trays to make 'em fit in a little wineador. It allows a lot of air flow down to the litter without sacrificing much space. And the occasional discovery of random sticks that fell down makes getting to the bottom of the coolidor a good time.

I then put a few large Boveda packs in the cooler, and let that moisture work its way through the process and into the litter. It's held 65-68% for a very, very long time. Only recently after a couple years did I have to recharge a pack. I was amazed at how stable it all was, and maintenance free.


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## ORMason (Nov 4, 2012)

Sounds like you've got your system running smoothly, I may try a mix of litter and boveda. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## StogieNinja (Jul 29, 2009)

stonecutter2 said:


> I used the MiMi litter from Wal mart, works fantastic in my coolidor.
> 
> My containers are plastic baby food containers (as opposed to the glass kind) filled with litter. I drilled a bunch of holes in the tops for some, but others I just left open. Then I placed some Spanish cedar slats across the top of them, I had from cut those off some trays to make 'em fit in a little wineador. It allows a lot of air flow down to the litter without sacrificing much space. And the occasional discovery of random sticks that fell down makes getting to the bottom of the coolidor a good time.
> 
> I then put a few large Boveda packs in the cooler, and let that moisture work its way through the process and into the litter. It's held 65-68% for a very, very long time. Only recently after a couple years did I have to recharge a pack. I was amazed at how stable it all was, and maintenance free.


I have a similar setup, but using Culebras cigar coffins with needlepoint backing as the lid. I use five of those, and five Bovedas in each of my wineadors. Holds absolutely rock steady, within +/-1%.

I do the opposite though, and spray the KL down every so often (once or twice a year, usually in the fall when temps begin to cool) and then let the Bovedas absorb any extra humidity, recharging themselves.


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## elco69 (May 1, 2013)

Aninjaforallseasons said:


> I have a similar setup, but using Culebras cigar coffins with needlepoint backing as the lid. I use five of those, and five Bovedas in each of my wineadors. Holds absolutely rock steady, within +/-1%.
> 
> I do the opposite though, and spray the KL down every so often (once or twice a year, usually in the fall when temps begin to cool) and then let the Bovedas absorb any extra humidity, recharging themselves.


hmmm..I got a few Camacho Liberties coming in and some extra needle point mesh from my coolidor setup, maybe I should break up my 2 containers into 4 or 5 and spread them around more some more.


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## coachdread (Apr 25, 2015)

You can also use filter bags for aquarium filter media. They sell them at Petsmart (where they happen to sell the KL). I get the 3" x 8" bags and they hold plenty of KL without any leakage and because they're designed to be used in an aquarium, they have no trouble getting wet or allowing moisture through. Best part of all...they run less than a buck apiece. 

Top Fin® Filter Media Bag


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## StogieNinja (Jul 29, 2009)

coachdread said:


> You can also use filter bags for aquarium filter media. They sell them at Petsmart (where they happen to sell the KL). I get the 3" x 8" bags and they hold plenty of KL without any leakage and because they're designed to be used in an aquarium, they have no trouble getting wet or allowing moisture through. Best part of all...they run less than a buck apiece.
> 
> Top Fin® Filter Media Bag


The only problem with those bags is that sometimes the KL leaves silica dust from bits that get rubbed off if the bag gets moved. I used aquarium filter bags at first, but switched for that reason.


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## euro (Aug 2, 2015)

I have been working on my tupperdor because I knew a humidor wouldn't be enough for the cigars I'm planning to buy. My tupperware box is 70liters and wasn't airtight so I used weather stripping to seal it. I got some acryl polymer crystals, according to the manufacturer they hold up moist and release it at 70 RH. The last couple days it was driving me crazy because the RH got over 73 which is too high.

I have been using silica kitty litter for my cat since the day I got him (six years), so I decided to give it a try as I always buy them in bulk (9 * 5 liter bags for 23 euros including shipping). I have filled a plastic container with the litter and sprayed it a couple of times with DW and I have placed it in my tupperdor. So far the RH is set on 68. I bet if I gave it less sprays it would be on 65RH. A couple hours later and the RH is still set on 68%!

The conclusion I can draw is that they are releasing and holding moisture so they work in two ways compared to the acryl polymer crystals who just work in one way. It's not that I'm a cheapskate it's just that this works very stable in my tupperdor. Anything else gives me a high RH. If your 'dor is airtight you should give this a chance. The acryl polymer crystals I bought are pretty expensive I bought 8 grams for 14 euros! You can use any brand of kitty silica litter as long it's not scented.

There is an another thing I want to make clear about KL. It's about odor killing issue some people worry about. Some people say that it will remove the smell of cedar of in your 'dor. This isn't true. What they mean with odorless is when your kitty uses it. For an example if your cat takes a big one in his litterbox the kitty litter will suck out the moisture of it's feces and kills the bacteria which cause the bad smell.

Just in case you wondered: I have placed 3 empty cigar boxes into my tupperdor. I did moist them a bit. Without any humidification source the RH is 61-62%. In the room the RH is set between 50-60%. I use KL only, no other humidification source. Tomorrow I will post a photo.


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## Bird-Dog (Oct 16, 2009)

Aninjaforallseasons said:


> I have a similar setup, but using Culebras cigar coffins with needlepoint backing as the lid. I use five of those, and five Bovedas in each of my wineadors. Holds absolutely rock steady, within +/-1%.
> 
> I do the opposite though, and spray the KL down every so often (once or twice a year, usually in the fall when temps begin to cool) and then let the Bovedas absorb any extra humidity, recharging themselves.


That is darn cool!


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## elco69 (May 1, 2013)

euro said:


> I have been working on my tupperdor because I knew a humidor wouldn't be enough for the cigars I'm planning to buy. My tupperware box is 70liters and wasn't airtight so I used weather stripping to seal it. I got some acryl polymer crystals, according to the manufacturer they hold up moist and release it at 70 RH. The last couple days it was driving me crazy because the RH got over 73 which is too high.
> 
> I have been using silica kitty litter for my cat since the day I got him (six years), so I decided to give it a try as I always buy them in bulk (9 * 5 liter bags for 23 euros including shipping). I have filled a plastic container with the litter and sprayed it a couple of times with DW and I have placed it in my tupperdor. So far the RH is set on 68. I bet if I gave it less sprays it would be on 65RH. A couple hours later and the RH is still set on 68%!
> 
> ...


If I may make a suggestion, try some of your CC's between 62-65% I find that most CC's smoke and taste better in that range. Some guys here even go as low as 60%


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## Bizumpy (Nov 14, 2014)

Think I'm one of the few who tried KL and didn't like it. I found that the RH varied too much and when I put it in a bag with a hygrometer it would read anywhere from 65 to 85% with only a slight difference in added water. I used it in aluminum cigar tubes that I had punched hundreds of tiny little holes in.

But I use multiple Tupperware containers rather than one large humidor so YMMV. I have six 50-count Tupperdors and I throw one Boveda pack in each and they can sit for months without having to check on them at all. Other than recharging them every year or so, Bovedas require zero maintenance in small, sealed spaces. 

Once I got used to that, even the slight maintenance that beads require seemed too much for me. With Bovedas you don't have to worry about distilled water, you don't have to worry about dust, you don't have to worry about charging them before use, and when they're dry you just touch them and you can tell.

The best use I found for KL is actually to recharge Boveda packs. I soak the beads, put them in the aluminum tubo, and put it in a plastic bag with any dry Boveda packs. About two weeks later the packs are back to normal.


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## Cigary (Oct 19, 2007)

I started using these years ago and found them to be one of the best types of KL holders out there esp. for tupperware/wood/etc humidors. They are slim and can be put into any type of humidor where the KL is exposed like it is supposed to be...as much surface area as possible. KL works best when it is allowed to have most of it exposed otherwise you're only using less than 25% of what you've put into filter bags that tend to bunch all of the litter together. The unit that is pictured you can get for about a $1 on the auction sites and you remove that foam crap and put the KL inside...put the screen over it...you're good to go. Each unit is a perfect size for about 75 cigars and when you need to adjust the RH up you just spray over the screen a couple of times and you're good for another few months. There is no worry for spilling or dust...the screen keeps everything intact and makes recharging very simple for a cost that is very cheap.


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## euro (Aug 2, 2015)

elco69 said:


> If I may make a suggestion, try some of your CC's between 62-65% I find that most CC's smoke and taste better in that range. Some guys here even go as low as 60%


I have heard that also on other forums. I will do it in the future. So far my tupperdor is pretty empty so this is a great opportunity for me to play a little bit with the RH and KL.



Bizumpy said:


> Think I'm one of the few who tried KL and didn't like it. I found that the RH varied too much and when I put it in a bag with a hygrometer it would read anywhere from 65 to 85% with only a slight difference in added water. I used it in aluminum cigar tubes that I had punched hundreds of tiny little holes in.
> 
> But I use multiple Tupperware containers rather than one large humidor so YMMV. I have six 50-count Tupperdors and I throw one Boveda pack in each and they can sit for months without having to check on them at all. Other than recharging them every year or so, Bovedas require zero maintenance in small, sealed spaces.
> 
> ...


Maintaining a stable RH in a tupperdor is pretty hard. Just a couple sprays of water can make the difference. Kitty Litter works in two directions so basically it's the same as the beads. This morning when I woke up the RH was on 64. Just out of curiosity I decided to give the KL a couple sprays and now the RH is set on 70%.

I can't even find one store her that sells those boveda packs. I could order them from Germany but no instead I ordered some acrly polymer beads which according to the manufacturer release moisture at 70%, they only release moisture but they dont take moisture. I already have a couple bags of KL for my cat so I decided to try it with KL and it works.

I have a plastic candy container with the size of a small cigar box. Maybe in the future I will cut out a window from the top, glue some aquarium filter screen to it, attach some velcro tape on the back so I can put it on the lid of my tupperdor. I freaking love DIY lol


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## narc83 (Dec 16, 2015)

euro said:


> ...silica kitty litter...So far the RH is set on 68. I bet if I gave it less sprays it would be on 65RH. A couple hours later and the RH is still set on 68%!...
> 
> The conclusion I can draw is that they are releasing and holding moisture so they work in two ways compared to the acryl polymer crystals who just work in one way. It's not that I'm a cheapskate it's just that this works very stable in my tupperdor. Anything else gives me a high RH. If your 'dor is airtight you should give this a chance. The acryl polymer crystals I bought are pretty expensive I bought 8 grams for 14 euros! You can use any brand of kitty silica litter as long it's not scented.
> 
> There is an another thing I want to make clear about KL. It's about odor killing issue some people worry about. Some people say that it will remove the smell of cedar of in your 'dor. This isn't true. What they mean with odorless is when your kitty uses it. For an example if your cat takes a big one in his litterbox the kitty litter will suck out the moisture of it's feces and kills the bacteria which cause the bad smell.


Cat litter works well but the dust annoys me whenever i have to spray the cat litter. Cat litter is the bulk version of silica that is most affordable. I wanted to utilize PG solution to inhibit mold and didn't want to be constantly spritzing the cat litter (i live in Arizona where the humidity is usually 20% or less) that's why i chose the bulk crystal polymer gel route aka water beads.

The superabsorbent polymers go by different names but are basically the same thing with the difference being if they are either polyacrylate or polyacrylamide copolymers. One holds 100x their weight in water while the other is 400x. The 100X stuff is cheaper and works perfectly with propylene glycol as a mold inhibitor. The Cat litter version of the polymer goes by the name 'water beads' and is like 7 dollars a pound when dry. They are round and come in different colors and they are now showing up in cigar jars and marked up drastically. The blue color seems to be a favorite for the Cigar International version. Water beads also go by the name 'crystal soil water beads' and come in either either 1 lb, 3 lb, or 50 lb bags. Adding Propylene glycol helps to regulate the humidity at 70% (PG at 50/50 dilution settles at 70% rh)

They are used as water bead decorations for weddings and for gardens to release water over long time frames while aerating the soil when they expand and contract when hydrating and dehydrating. The other version of the polymer is the stuff they use in diapers and the cheapest bulk version comes in a powder (hydrates into a gel) but cost twice as much as the water beads for half a lb. The round water beads have better surface area and regulate the humidity quicker.

google, "1 Pound Bag of Water Beads - Clear by Cosmo Beads" and they should pop up from Amazon for $6.99/lb. half a pound can make 6 gallons so 1 lb of the water beads is a life time supply.

Dryer climates the polymers are awesome since once you get the proper amount it can last month with zero maintenance. The cat litter though is much better for those in humid conditions that require a desiccant like silica crystals. You can also combine the two but its important that in dry climates that you use more polymer and a tiny amount of dry cat litter as a regulator.

Silica crystals are best at desiccants but work decently enough as 2 ways but you will require a massive amount otherwise it will fluctuate quite a bit from morning to night time. Here in Arizona the day time temp can hit the low 70s at day time while dropping to the low 30's at night time and as such with cat litter the Rh fluctuated from 66-76%. My room that i stored it in the temp would go from 61 up to 70 degrees F and it fluctuated too much for my liking. Temps can go from highs of 58 all the way to 74, with the lows from anywhere from 32-44. Its a bit of a roller coaster and house in the southwest don't have basements since all construction is concrete slab foundations.

The water beads charged with PG solution are rock solid from a low of 68% rh at morning to 72% rh at night. The temp extremes don't effect the polymer as much as the cat litter.


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