# So I'm trying to convince my girlfriend...



## KickinItInSD (Aug 4, 2010)

That pipe tobacco isn't the cancerous, life-leeching, demon that our home state of California equates to tobacco. Any ideas?

Oh, and her grandfather died of cancer related to tobacco, so that makes things a million times harder.


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## Mitch (Oct 2, 2009)

KickinItInSD said:


> That pipe tobacco isn't the cancerous, life-leeching, demon that our home state of California equates to tobacco. Any ideas?
> 
> Oh, and her grandfather died of cancer related to tobacco, so that makes things a million times harder.


I don't know what to say other then you are still a man and can make some decisions on your own. Or just do it behind her back, what she doesn't know wont hurt her usually, hahaha

I will usually hear my wife out, and listen to her feelings on a subject. If it is a major decision like buying a house, where to go on vacation, I always want to make that decision together. But things like can I smoke cigars, we don't control those things in our relationship.

I am personally not attracted to women who smoke cigs, So when I was looking for a wife, I didn't start dating a woman who smokes and expect her to quit. I found a non-smoker.

My 2 cents


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## KickinItInSD (Aug 4, 2010)

Well I guess the hard part is that when she met me I didn't smoke anything, then I got into the 
Navy, met a few Chiefs...and it all went downhill from there hahaha. I live next to an awesome
awesome tobacco shop, with the best guys ever, so I hoped taking her there would fix things,
but she refused to go...women can be so stubborn

I'm trying to put my foot down, but I think she might be close to the whole, "tobacco, or me" idea.


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## ChronoB (Nov 4, 2007)

KickinItInSD said:


> That pipe tobacco isn't the cancerous, life-leeching, demon that our home state of California equates to tobacco. Any ideas?
> 
> Oh, and her grandfather died of cancer related to tobacco, so that makes things a million times harder.


You're facing an almost, but not quite impossible task. Remember that you're trying to overcome brainwashing, and a negative personal experience with her grandfather. These things take time, if it happens at all. Here are some talking points.

The best you can explain to her is that she shouldn't equate cigarettes to cigars or pipes. It is like equating Grade C meat to filet mignon at your local Ritz Carlton dining room. Not the same thing.

People have been enjoying tobacco in one form or another for thousands of years. It is only in the past 60 years or so, after the big cig companies turned cigarettes into the horrible little sticks they are now, coupled with widespread, _heavy _abuse of cigs, that we've come to identify all tobacco use as bad.

Most modern commercial cigs are only about 50 percent cheap tobacco. The rest is a slurry of reconstituted tobacco bits and chemicals specifically designed to increase the absorption of nicotine, regardless of what those other chemicals will do to you.

None of that crap is put in premium cigars or pipe tobacco. In fact, much of the _natural_ things that can be bad for you are lessened by the sweating/fermenting/curing processes applied to premium tobacco.

And finally, even if non-cig tobacco use has some harmful effects, they are greatly lessened by not inhaling, and by the relaxation and stress relief that pipe smoking offers. Pipe smoking for some is just a hobby, others a pastime, and for others a lifestyle. For all, it offers a great deal that contributes to our well being, even if it yellows our teeth a little.

Finally, if it comes down to a "tobacco or me" type of thing, you both need to evaluate your relationship. We're not talking about dog fighting, strip clubs, or snake handling. We're talking about pipe and cigar smoking. If that is a deal breaker, then there are other issues at play.


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## indigosmoke (Sep 1, 2009)

It amazes me that someone who is worried they might lose you 30 years from now because you smoke would leave you now if you don't quit smoking. Some logic there. Sounds like a control issue to me.


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## KickinItInSD (Aug 4, 2010)

I think it would be more of a threat that she could never go through with. Thanks for that comment Chrono. I've used the reasoning about cigarettes =/ cigars/pipes, but if she sees smoke coming out, a little light goes off in her head.

She also seems to think that pipe tobacco is addicting, and that I am now addicted. Now I know Nicotine is addictive, but for how much I smoke, I sriously doubt addiction has crept in.

Even for some of you Senior members who have cellars full, I doubt you are in the same addictive state as say...a lifelong cig smoker. 

What are your thoughts?


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## Mitch (Oct 2, 2009)

indigosmoke said:


> It amazes me that someone who is worried they might lose you 30 years from now because you smoke would leave you now if you don't quit smoking. Some logic there. Sounds like a control issue to me.


This is true.


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## ultramag (Aug 23, 2007)

KickinItInSD said:


> I'm trying to put my foot down, but I think she might be close to the whole, "tobacco, or me" idea.


I'd sure miss her.


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## indigosmoke (Sep 1, 2009)

ultramag said:


> I'd sure miss her.


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## Mitch (Oct 2, 2009)

KickinItInSD said:


> I think it would be more of a threat that she could never go through with. Thanks for that comment Chrono. I've used the reasoning about cigarettes =/ cigars/pipes, but if she sees smoke coming out, a little light goes off in her head.
> 
> She also seems to think that pipe tobacco is addicting, and that I am now addicted. Now I know Nicotine is addictive, but for how much I smoke, I sriously doubt addiction has crept in.
> 
> ...


I wouldn't say I am addicted at all. Am I willing to quit, nope. I enjoy both cigars and pipe. Why would I quit something I enjoy. I think the key to life is finding a balance in all things. I try to work hard, enjoy my family, enjoy scotch, enjoy pipe and cigars, enjoy my friends, love my church. I try to balance my life in all areas.

I have family (Some uncles and aunts) who are addicts to alcohol. That doens't mean I should never touch it, just means I should learn from them.


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## Mitch (Oct 2, 2009)

indigosmoke said:


> CMT : Videos : Brad Paisley : I'm Gonna Miss Her


bro, exactly what i was thinking. :rofl:


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## indigosmoke (Sep 1, 2009)

If she's open to reason have her watch this. I don't think many people actually realize what's in a cigarette. It also describes how they freebase tobacco in cigarettes to make the nicotine effect much, much stronger (for just the same reason people freebase cocaine.) Might also help on the addiction thing. And no, pipe smoking is nothing like cigarette smoking in that regard. I've gone on vacations, business trips etc for a week or more and don't miss the pipe. I rountinely skip a day or two smoking because I cant find the time, etc. Show me a cigarette smoker that does that without any cravings. There aren't many.


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## Jack Straw (Nov 20, 2008)

There is some mild addictiveness to Pipes, but it's more of a habit thing than a physiological "MUST SMOKE NOW" thing. Kind of like being addicted to the process of sitting down and reading a book, or working on a hobby for an hour. For instance when I was traveling recently I barely smoked the pipe at all, in fact the idea of sitting out in the cold smoking a pipe compared to my usual easy-chair was not attractive enough for me to smoke more than twice in two weeks. On the other hand, with cigarette smokers, it could be raining molten lava with zombies walking around and they would still find a way to go outside for a smoke. Completely different.

One thing you might do, is just show her the studies that say that pipe smokers live longer than non-smokers, statistically speaking.


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## indigosmoke (Sep 1, 2009)

Jack Straw said:


> it could be raining molten lava with zombies walking around and they would still find a way to go outside for a smoke.


:rofl:


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## ultramag (Aug 23, 2007)

KickinItInSD said:


> She also seems to think that pipe tobacco is addicting, and that I am now addicted. Now I know Nicotine is addictive, but for how much I smoke, I sriously doubt addiction has crept in.
> 
> Even for some of you Senior members who have cellars full, I doubt you are in the same addictive state as say...a lifelong cig smoker.
> 
> What are your thoughts?


As someone who dipped snuff for over twenty years I can 110% claim with all honesty that pipe and cigar smoking is nothing compared to ciggies and chewing. When those things get a hold of you it's tough to break free. If you aren't using at the moment it takes over your mind. All you can think about is getting out of that meeting so you can get a dip for your lip or fire up that Camel. I herf with a couple guys who smoke cigs and it was an amazing thing to me to watch a guy spend 2 1/2 hours smoking a Monte 'A' and then not be able to light a Marlboro fast enough to get the nic hit. If that don't show the things we're dealing with here are different monsters, then nothing will. I've been essentially pipe free the 3 or 4 days due to a sinus infection and it's not a big thing at all. I don't even really think about it other than I'd like to fire up some fine weed to relax and savor the flavor. I know when chewing I'd be drooling and snotting and still trying to dip even though it would make me miserable because it was an addiction, not something I enjoy. Since I couldn't enjoy a pipe now, why waste the tobacco??? This coming from a guy who had been enjoying 3-4 bowls a day for the last 2+ months. Sometimes I just don't have time and may go a couple weeks without a bowl or more. Not a big deal other than like mentioned above I just miss the relaxing time.

The problem is when dealing with an irrational person who doesn't care about reason, logic, or facts and has been pre-programmed by society for the last 20 years or so none of this really matters. That's the key to "fitting in" in todays society. Don't let the facts or your experiences muddy the waters of hysteria. Have a headache??? Cut the friggen thing off then. No common sense or moderation whatsoever.

I apologize somewhat for my initial off the cuff remark, however if an issue like this results in an ultimatum like that then this is most likely not someone you want to have to make lifes big decisions with. Being married is hard some days, even with fairly like minded people who don't insinuate, let alone actually issue, child-like ultimatums over things that are largely not their decision to make and they aren't informed about. It's just no way to do someone you love IMO.

Take away from this what you'd like and leave the rest as you wish, however without a doubt, this is not big tobacco addiction. It has it's risks, it can get you, we'd be fools not to realize it, but it's just not the same risks, amounts used, or addictive qualities as the big tobacoo the unwashed masses want to lump it in with.


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## indigosmoke (Sep 1, 2009)

ultramag said:


> It has it's risks, it can get you, we'd be fools not to realize it, but it's just not the same risks, amounts used, or addictive qualities as the big tobacoo the unwashed masses want to lump it in with.


Precisely. Like everything is life there are tradeoffs, and little or nothing you do or consume is risk free. It's just that people have grown accustomed to feeling they can openly criticize your choice to smoke when they would never consider doing so on a wide range of other behaviors.

Does she use household cleaning chemicals, eat processed foods, drive a car, etc, etc, etc? To which people respond, well you have to drive (actually you don't), you have to eat (almost all of us could eat a healthier diet) to which I respond I think you have to enjoy your life and not worry about every god dang thing that might kill you in 20 years. We have become such a paranoid, risk adverse society in general, it sometimes boggles my mind. Seal yourself off from the world like the boy in the plastic bubble if you want, that's your choice...me I'm sticking with my Irish Flake, port and steak. I'm more that willing to pay the piper when the time comes. None of us are going to live forever.

This reminds me of the muscian Warren Zevon. He died at a fairly young age and most probably his life was shortened by hard living (drinking, smoking, drugs, etc, but he died of mesothelioma, so it might also have had something to do with asbestos exposure at some point, see these things aren't as black and white as the antis want them to be) but refused to see it as a tragedy. In his final months he often said (to parphrase) "I lived the life of a rock star for 30 years. I don't regret that!"


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## jfdiii (Nov 12, 2010)

I can't post links yet but go to meerschaumstore/health for a good article. I cite this one often. Thank God my wife works for a tobacco company so my pipe smoking is actually encouraged.


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## dmkerr (Oct 27, 2008)

The best thing to tell her, IMHO, is that a lack of moderation in just about anything is dangerous. Eating too much, driving too fast, overstressing, overspending, etc.

Unless you smoke a pipe all day long, you're probably a moderate smoker. I average about 7-10 bowls per week. A "moderate" cigarette smoker (of which there are few) smokes about 7 times as many cigarettes. And they directly inhale the smoke.

Pipesmoking is not without its risks. I find it to be less risky than my work commute. And it's a soother of the soul and temperament, which promotes a less stressful life, which in turn promotes a longer life. 

On the other hand, I once tried to convince a girlfriend whose sister was killed by a handgun that guns in the right hands were ok. You have a tough road ahead! It's very difficult to overcome a strong emotional argument with the use of logic.


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## KickinItInSD (Aug 4, 2010)

Wow everyone, thanks for the responses. I am going to be taking all this in, and try to convince 
her in the next few days...maybe I'll record it for you guys...haha.

Do you know where the studies are about the pipe smokers life expec...that would be freakin 
awesome stat to show her..since she's a biologist!


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## indigosmoke (Sep 1, 2009)

dmkerr said:


> The best thing to tell her, IMHO, is that a lack of moderation in just about anything is dangerous. Eating too much, driving too fast, overstressing, overspending, etc.


Very wise.

"Moderation is the silken string running through the pearl chain of all virtues." - Joseph Hall


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## indigosmoke (Sep 1, 2009)

KickinItInSD said:


> Wow everyone, thanks for the responses. I am going to be taking all this in, and try to convince
> her in the next few days...maybe I'll record it for you guys...haha.
> 
> Do you know where the studies are about the pipe smokers life expec...that would be freakin
> awesome stat to show her..since she's a biologist!


I don't have links to the original studies, but some info can be found here:
Pipe Smoking and Health

However, to be fair there are other studies that show there are risks associated with pipe smoking, although increased mortality may not be one of them:
Pipe Smoking | CVS Health Resources

However, without knowing the methodologies and ideologies of all of these studies it's hard to determine where the facts and fiction lie. Witness the recent vaccine study scandal:
Infamous Study Linking Autism to Vaccines Called a

I think Utramag's earlier post hits the nail on the head. Clearly there are some risks associated with pipe smoking, but one has to balance those risks versus the rewards. It's the thought that everyone that smokes a bowl of pipe tobacco a day is going to drop dead from pipe smoking that is absurd in my opinion.

I also think Eric is right on the mark in this video as well:


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## Breakaway500 (May 7, 2010)

Try this on her: You are much more likely to be injured driving a car than by smoking tobacco. When she gives up driving..you will give up smoking..hey it's worth a shot..


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## Jack Straw (Nov 20, 2008)

indigosmoke said:


> Very wise.
> 
> "Moderation is the silken string running through the pearl chain of all virtues." - Joseph Hall


"Take the middle way." -Buddha


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## Jack Straw (Nov 20, 2008)

I remember reading a nicely done if slighly outdated survey of research on the subject. Let me see if I can find it. One of the more interesting studies noted that among identical twins, if one smoked a pipe and the other didn't, the pipe smoker tended to live longer.


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## KickinItInSD (Aug 4, 2010)

The problem is...she's super smart, like MD smart. It is incredibly hard to argue with her. 

Thanks for all the links Indigo!!!!

I also need a good video of a quiet, peaceful, man smoking. Possibly youtube? I need to convince her that her image of tobacco
isn't entirely right, and there's a way to make it a relaxing hobby. You know
what I mean?

This is going to be a large undertaking, haaaa


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## Natedogg (Jun 21, 2010)

Smoking isn't the only cause of cancer, and it's not always smoking that causes lung cancer. It also doesn't cause cancer in everyone.

My wife's step-mom died of stage 4 lung cancer at 53 years old. She was a devout Christian (who worked for a Diocese) and never smoked anything in her life.

My grandfather smoked 2 packs of non-filters a day until his mid-60's. He died at 88 years old from complications caused by working in the factories in Detroit in the early days of the automobile industry. No cancer.

Look at George Burns...

It's all about your genetic make-up and how your body reacts to it. It's no different than your chances of getting hit by a car, choking on a piece of steak, etc. Your whole life is risk vs. reward. Hell, breathing the air these days is just as bad as smoking, and 75% of the food on the shelves is worse.

So eff it, if this 1 vice I have destroys me, so be it. At least I can say that I enjoyed it, and didn't live my life scared shitless of every little thing and people didn't have control over everything I did; I did it on my own. Live your own life. If your girlfriend is already trying to control your life and change you, I say you don't need her. You can't force people to change, they have to choose to change on their own. And most people don't change very much when they do.


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## Jack Straw (Nov 20, 2008)

How about a video of Bertrand Russell, he was a pretty smart guy. 

And he lived to be 97 years old.


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## indigosmoke (Sep 1, 2009)

KickinItInSD said:


> she's super smart, like MD smart.


If she really thinks like an MD you're doomed to failure. My flight instructor once told me the worst student pilots he ever had were MDs. They thought they knew everything and were smarter than everyone else and you could never convince them of anything they didn't choose to believe, even in a completely unrelated activity like learning to fly an airplane. Luckily he could afford to take on only the students he wanted to so he got tired of worrying they were going to kill themselves and stopped training them... lol.


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## Jack Straw (Nov 20, 2008)

Health Benefits of Pipe Smoking | Pipes Magazine - The #1 Source for Pipes and Pipe Tobacco Information


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## indigosmoke (Sep 1, 2009)

Jack Straw said:


> How about a video of Bertrand Russell, he was a pretty smart guy.
> 
> And he lived to be 97 years old.


Andrew, that was wonderful! If I hadn't just bumped your RG for your contest thread you'd be getting another one. What I really love is the story of how being in the smoking section of the plane saved his life! Beautiful. It just shows you that trying to manage the risks in life is a no win proposition. You can't fight fate, as they say. I'll be smiling all day over this one, and smoking a pipe or two in his (and your) honor.


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## KickinItInSD (Aug 4, 2010)

Haha, that guy is perfect, but perhaps something a little more modern, it might 
not relate enough to the times right now :rofl:


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## GuitarDan (Nov 26, 2009)

Kill two birds with one stone:
Dropping your girlfriend solves the original problem, AND leaves more money for excellent tobacco...


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## indigosmoke (Sep 1, 2009)

I just thought of this video. Another possible side effect from smoking a pipe to consider.


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## Cigary (Oct 19, 2007)

My response has always and will be quality of life. I don't like cigarettes and they are indeed something to worry about as far as health issues. Pipes or cigars are something that are quite different in terms of tobacco experience. I've yet to hear any cigarette smoker tell me that they smoke because of their great flavor or how they make their life better.

Cigars/pipe smokers tend to experience in large degree an experience of relaxation which translates to less stress/anxiety in life which is the real killer. I understand the debate with our relationships over the use of cigars/pipes and it has to be a situation where you sit down and discuss it like adults..with no ultimatums and tactics that border on manipulation.

When I talked it over with my wife I told her that what I get with cigars I don't get with other things that will relax me...should I take a handful of chemistry laden pills that tend to cause more issues than anything else? I smoke in moderation which means I have about 3-5 cigars a week and always get a check up for my heart, lungs, etc. Life is short enough without adding frustrations and anxiety to the mix. I don't know any adult who lives like a monk that doesn't consume things that aren't good for them...we eat things that can be defined as not good for us....ice cream, pies, hamburgers,..the list is too long. I get in a car everyday and that is more of a risk than my cigars.


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## CardinalsFan (Dec 27, 2010)

Dont waste your time. You can convience women of NOTHING!!!


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## Commander Quan (May 6, 2003)

The problem is that you are thinking logically and she is thinking emotionally. In her mind you will never be able to rationalize smoking.


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