# Rolling my own cigar



## Rook83 (Apr 8, 2013)

Hey gents/gals, I am now going to try and roll cigars myself. I found tobacco leaves online and they don't seem that crazy expensive. My plan is to have connecticut filler and binder and use cameroon as my wrapper...some of the 'gars I smoke use variations of this combo...have any of y'all done this? Any tips or pitfalls I should avoid?


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## Laptime61 (Mar 12, 2014)

I haven't but im very interested. If you do roll your own take some pics and let us know how they turn out... and if you need a taste tester hehe :smoke2:


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## JustTroItIn (Jan 12, 2014)

Look up some posts from @Bruck. I have seen him smoking his home rolls on more than one occasion in the "What are you smoking now" thread. I'm sure he will be chiming in shortly.


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## Erphern (Jan 28, 2014)

Laptime61 said:


> I haven't but im very interested. If you do roll your own take some pics and let us know how they turn out... and if you need a taste tester hehe :smoke2:


^^^ I'd definitely be interested in pictures! Of the process, mostly.


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## Engineer99 (Aug 4, 2011)

This dude is the resident guru of the homemade cigar rolling set. http://www.cigarforums.net/forums/vb/members/32531-tntclip.html

He doesn't post here anymore, and his existing posts are great. He can be found as a regular contributor on another forum.


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## Gdaddy (Sep 20, 2012)

Been rolling my own for a while now. I love it and no longer buy cigars. Well, maybe an occasional cigar now and then.

Here's a very good tutorial with pictures.

How to Grow Tobacco • View topic - How I roll cigars 101...........

Here's one of my latest....


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## TJB (Dec 10, 2012)

Engineer99 said:


> This dude is the resident guru of the homemade cigar rolling set. http://www.cigarforums.net/forums/vb/members/32531-tntclip.html
> 
> He doesn't post here anymore, and his existing posts are great. He can be found as a regular contributor on another forum.


Did he leave after the comments on his last rolled cigar?


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## Engineer99 (Aug 4, 2011)

TJB said:


> Did he leave after the comments on his last rolled cigar?


I was wondering what you alluded to for a minute...until I looked up what he rolled.LOL.

The cat's skin is far from that thin and he received as much, if not more ribbing on the other site where he posted the same pics.

He's tackled some of the more challenging vitolas, like lanceros and torpedos, and while they're not perfect, they smoke just fine according to recipients of his handiwork. He even deconstructed a plugged CC Partagas 898 and remade it...


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## TJB (Dec 10, 2012)

Engineer99 said:


> I was wondering what you alluded to for a minute...until I looked up what he rolled.LOL.
> 
> The cat's skin is far from that thin and he received as much, if not more ribbing on the other site where he posted the same pics.
> 
> He's tackled some of the more challenging vitolas, like lanceros and torpedos, and while they're not perfect, they smoke just fine according to recipients of his handiwork. He even deconstructed a plugged CC Partagas 898 and remade it...


I watched his video he is very good. Makes me want to give it a try but I don't know any of the tricks of adding special recipe flavors to make the cigar unique. Such as adding spice or coffee notes. I don't know what is natural tobacco smell vs what is added.


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## Engineer99 (Aug 4, 2011)

TJB said:


> I watched his video he is very good. Makes me want to give it a try but I don't know any of the tricks of adding special recipe flavors to make the cigar unique. Such as adding spice or coffee notes. I don't know what is natural tobacco smell vs what is added.


Making a cigar unique has everything to do with the experience of blending different types of tobacco and knowing the proportions and placement in a cigar. Spice or coffee notes are simply ways of describing the flavors and aromas present when smoking a cigar. There are cigars that are infused with various aromatics, and are specifically described as infused.

The vast majority of premium hand rolled 100% tobacco cigars that this forum is mostly dedicated to do not include any adulterants to produce a particular flavor. "Spice" and "coffee", as well as a plethora of other generic terms like "earthy" are generalized terms used to describe flavors and aromas in a way that most people will interpret per their experience.


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## Rook83 (Apr 8, 2013)

Gdaddy said:


> Been rolling my own for a while now. I love it and no longer buy cigars. Well, maybe an occasional cigar now and then.
> 
> Here's a very good tutorial with pictures.
> 
> ...


Dang! That is very well done! Did you use a cigar mold? Thats the one thing I didn't buy...strictly because I just wanted to try this out...I'm not serious at it, nor do I plan to be in the near future...but the cigar in that pic looks pretty dang good...store bought!


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## Rook83 (Apr 8, 2013)

Engineer99 said:


> This dude is the resident guru of the homemade cigar rolling set. http://www.cigarforums.net/forums/vb/members/32531-tntclip.html
> 
> He doesn't post here anymore, and his existing posts are great. He can be found as a regular contributor on another forum.


Thank you very much for this! I will read up on it...my leaves won't get delivered for a little less than a week, so I'm going to take this weekend and study!


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## Rook83 (Apr 8, 2013)

Laptime61 said:


> I haven't but im very interested. If you do roll your own take some pics and let us know how they turn out... and if you need a taste tester hehe :smoke2:


Absolutely...hopefully I'll get to rolling in the next two weeks


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## Rook83 (Apr 8, 2013)

Erphern said:


> ^^^ I'd definitely be interested in pictures! Of the process, mostly.


great idea...I'll take pics and video...hopefully it turns out good...


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## Gdaddy (Sep 20, 2012)

Rook83 said:


> Dang! That is very well done! Did you use a cigar mold? Thats the one thing I didn't buy...strictly because I just wanted to try this out...I'm not serious at it, nor do I plan to be in the near future...but the cigar in that pic looks pretty dang good...store bought!


Thanks.

Yes, a mold is needed to press the tobacco into shape. You can make your own inexpensive molds for a couple of dollars using PVC.


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## Gdaddy (Sep 20, 2012)

This is the mold I currently use. This does a fantastic job and is a step up from the PVC.


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## Rook83 (Apr 8, 2013)

Gdaddy said:


> This is the mold I currently use. This does a fantastic job and is a step up from the PVC.
> 
> View attachment 48428


wow, that's really nice...where'd you get that?


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## TJB (Dec 10, 2012)

Engineer99 said:


> Making a cigar unique has everything to do with the experience of blending different types of tobacco and knowing the proportions and placement in a cigar. Spice or coffee notes are simply ways of describing the flavors and aromas present when smoking a cigar. There are cigars that are infused with various aromatics, and are specifically described as infused.
> 
> The vast majority of premium hand rolled 100% tobacco cigars that this forum is mostly dedicated to do not include any adulterants to produce a particular flavor. "Spice" and "coffee", as well as a plethora of other generic terms like "earthy" are generalized terms used to describe flavors and aromas in a way that most people will interpret per their experience.


Well thanks for the info. I was wondering in the past how say a nicaraguan puro from Illusione and say a Padron are so different. I guess it has to do with other variables with the tobaccos (proportions, fermentation, aging) used and not so much anything "extra." See I thought previously there were only a few families growing this stuff so how many different ways is there to get a cigar to be unique when there are only like 4 countries that source the stuff and supply the same tobacco to everyone? Maybe I am missing something but I guess there are still ways to get the tobacco to somehow taste unique.


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## Gdaddy (Sep 20, 2012)

TJB said:


> Well thanks for the info. I was wondering in the past how say a nicaraguan puro from Illusione and say a Padron are so different. I guess it has to do with other variables with the tobaccos (proportions, fermentation, aging) used and not so much anything "extra." See I thought previously there were only a few families growing this stuff so how many different ways is there to get a cigar to be unique when there are only like 4 countries that source the stuff and supply the same tobacco to everyone? Maybe I am missing something but I guess there are still ways to get the tobacco to somehow taste unique.


Interesting isn't it? How could they possibly taste so differently? After all, they are just leaves from a few locations.

It's a fact that tobacco has been processed and treated many different ways. I see videos (from major suppliers) where the rollers fingers are stained from some kind of additive or dye. I've also seen the processing rooms in Cuba where the leaves get sprayed down with a special enhancements. These are the true family secrets that happen in hidden back rooms. They would have you believe it's the simple blending of leaves but there's more to it.

So yes, the cigars, even though they are not really sold as being infused, have been processed to incorporate a flavor to make them unique. There are lots of tobacco flavorings being used as well as treatments to simply 'enhance' and remove harshness. This is especially helpful to manufacturers who slip in un-aged tobacco. First year tobacco comes at a much cheaper price and is widely used in lower priced cigars.


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## TJB (Dec 10, 2012)

Gdaddy said:


> Interesting isn't it? How could they possibly taste so differently? After all, they are just leaves from a few locations.
> 
> It's a fact that tobacco has been processed and treated many different ways. I see videos (from major suppliers) where the rollers fingers are stained from some kind of additive or dye. I've also seen the processing rooms in Cuba where the leaves get sprayed down with a special enhancements. These are the true family secrets that happen in hidden back rooms. They would have you believe it's the simple blending of leaves but there's more to it.
> 
> So yes, the cigars, even though they are not really sold as being infused, have been processed to incorporate a flavor to make them unique. There are lots of tobacco flavorings being used as well as treatments to simply 'enhance' and remove harshness. This is especially helpful to manufacturers who slip in un-aged tobacco. First year tobacco comes at a much cheaper price and is widely used in lower priced cigars.


Yeah see this is what I was thinking. There has to be a way for them to differentiate from the rest. Good info.


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## Gdaddy (Sep 20, 2012)

Rook83 said:


> wow, that's really nice...where'd you get that?


I get it from a guy who closed his web site. PM me if you want to buy one and I'll give you his e-mail.


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## Rook83 (Apr 8, 2013)

Gdaddy said:


> I get it from a guy who closed his web site. PM me if you want to buy one and I'll give you his e-mail.


PM sent...thanks!


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## Bruck (Jan 8, 2013)

JustTroItIn said:


> Look up some posts from @Bruck. I have seen him smoking his home rolls on more than one occasion in the "What are you smoking now" thread. I'm sure he will be chiming in shortly.


Hi y'all, sorry for slow response - just got back online after a few days out with a broken internet. (Comcast is the Burger King of ISPs)

I started rolling my own about a month ago, so I'm definitely still on the learning curve, but I'd be happy to share my experiences. It's not hard to make cigars that taste good, but getting them to look good and draw/burn well is proving to be a bit of a challenge. I've got the draw pretty well down, but my sticks still look a bit like Backwoods rejects 

I've been shamelessly picking the brain of @Gdaddy, who, as you can see, is quite capable of making good looking cigars.

The general advice I can offer at this point is to read up on the subject as much as possible, watch some youtube videos, and just do it. & yes, a good mold is key to making good looking sticks.


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## Rook83 (Apr 8, 2013)

Bruck said:


> Hi y'all, sorry for slow response - just got back online after a few days out with a broken internet. (Comcast is the Burger King of ISPs)
> 
> I started rolling my own about a month ago, so I'm definitely still on the learning curve, but I'd be happy to share my experiences. It's not hard to make cigars that taste good, but getting them to look good and draw/burn well is proving to be a bit of a challenge. I've got the draw pretty well down, but my sticks still look a bit like Backwoods rejects
> 
> ...


Definitely...I've been watching a ton of vids today...my wife wants to participate as well even though she doesn't smoke...her attention to detail I'm sure will make them at least presentable...in your experience, do you have to use a combination of filler leaves? I only purchased one type of filler leaf (Nicaraguan viso)...I know some cigars only have one type of Connecticut filler, but haven't heard of ones that have only Nicaraguan viso...just curious...


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## Rook83 (Apr 8, 2013)

I bought Nicaraguan viso filler, Connecticut Broadleaf binder, and Cameroon wrapper....I know its kind of an odd combination, but those are the types of leaves I love...


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## Bruck (Jan 8, 2013)

Rook83 said:


> Definitely...I've been watching a ton of vids today...my wife wants to participate as well even though she doesn't smoke...her attention to detail I'm sure will make them at least presentable...in your experience, do you have to use a combination of filler leaves? I only purchased one type of filler leaf (Nicaraguan viso)...I know some cigars only have one type of Connecticut filler, but haven't heard of ones that have only Nicaraguan viso...just curious...


I started out with the "medium cigar sampler" from leafonly dot com, which included CT broadleaf binder and wrapper, and nic seco and dominican ligero for filler. So the filler blend I started out with was one leaf of ligero and the rest seco. Plus I would add in some scraps to fill it out, most CT broadleaf pieces left over from cutting the wrappers and binders.

I've since added some paraguay viso (no more than one leaf at a time) and "cubano" seco, which I bought from wholeleaftobacco dot com. The viso I use has a pretty strong aroma and flavor, so I use it in limited quantities.

I just got some Ecuador maduro wrapper, so I used that in my latest batch. Looks a bit nicer than the CT broadleaf, but is more delicate and harder to work with. Don't know how they taste yet, but they smell nice!


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## Gdaddy (Sep 20, 2012)

I like the Nicaraquan seco and blend in the Nic Ligero to pump it up to my liking. I can make it as strong as i want. For my taste I think the Viso mixed with ligero would be a tad too much nicotine.


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## Skeat5353 (Mar 15, 2014)

How do you learn how to roll your own cigars? That's crazy. I've watched videos on youtube. It looks like it would take years to master the art.


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## Gdaddy (Sep 20, 2012)

Skeat5353 said:


> How do you learn how to roll your own cigars? That's crazy. I've watched videos on youtube. It looks like it would take years to master the art.


It's not that hard. You need to be a little crafty. My first cigar was at least smokable and improved on each one. Here's a photo of the first six cigars I rolled. They were not too bad for a rookie and they smoked just fine.


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## Alexv (Mar 16, 2014)

I would love to roll my own cigars, it will save me a lot of cash. It doesn't look easy at all though.


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## Bruck (Jan 8, 2013)

Skeat5353 said:


> How do you learn how to roll your own cigars? That's crazy. I've watched videos on youtube. It looks like it would take years to master the art.


It would take years to get as good as the Cubans  But to make something that's smokeable, aesthetics notwithstanding, wouldn't take long at all. I've only been at it about a month, and that's just a few hours on the weekends, and mine are getting halfway decent. Here's one of my better ones:


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## Bruck (Jan 8, 2013)

Alexv said:


> I would love to roll my own cigars, it will save me a lot of cash. It doesn't look easy at all though.


My rough back-of-the-envelope calculation is that you can get the variable cost down to abt $1.50 a stick. I've got about $150 in fixed costs so far (cutting board, knife, molds, etc.). So yes, it could save a regular cigar smoker a lot of green (happy St. Pat's Day BTW) in the long run.

Of course that's ignoring the time that goes into it, which I consider "hobby" time, i.e., free.

To me it's kind of like handloading ammunition - you save money over retail, but the real benefit is that you can tailor the rounds to exactly how you want them. Same with cigars - you can control size, blend, strength, flavor, etc.


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## Alexv (Mar 16, 2014)

...


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## Bruck (Jan 8, 2013)

Rook83 said:


> I bought Nicaraguan viso filler, Connecticut Broadleaf binder, and Cameroon wrapper....I know its kind of an odd combination, but those are the types of leaves I love...


Have you started rolling your own yet? How's it coming?


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## OnePyroTec (Dec 11, 1997)

Every time I see one of these posts it make me want to break out the old leaves and roll some up again. :mischief:


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## Rook83 (Apr 8, 2013)

Bruck said:


> Have you started rolling your own yet? How's it coming?


Hey! Yeah, I rolled about 7 so far and they looked like crap! They smoked real nice, a bit loose, but the flavor was superb...I just ordered a cigar mold 48 ring gauge and it should arrive by Wednesday, or perhaps Thursday. As soon as it comes in, I'll roll some more and put my labels on and take some pics...I didn't realize how skilled one has to be to roll without a mold...I think with the mold, the cigar will actually be compressed and tighten up the draw...also it should add to the smoothness and consistency...can't wait for the delivery truck! I'll post some pics and take a vid of it and upload it on my youtube page...hopefully they'll come out great...:dunno:


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## Gdaddy (Sep 20, 2012)

The mold will improve the appearance greatly. Taste is way more important than looks anyway. Glad to hear you are enjoying them.

What blend did you end up with?


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## Rook83 (Apr 8, 2013)

Gdaddy said:


> The mold will improve the appearance greatly. Taste is way more important than looks anyway. Glad to hear you are enjoying them.
> 
> What blend did you end up with?


So my filler is Nicaraguan long filler viso and Connecticut shade broadleaf. My binder is PA oscuro OR Connecticut shade. And my wrapper is Cameroon or Connecticut Maduro...I've made two different kinds and the Cameroon wrapped one is amazing!


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## Bruck (Jan 8, 2013)

Rook83 said:


> So my filler is Nicaraguan long filler viso and Connecticut shade broadleaf. My binder is PA oscuro OR Connecticut shade. And my wrapper is Cameroon or Connecticut Maduro...I've made two different kinds and the Cameroon wrapped one is amazing!


Welcome to the RYO club, Shahukh!

Yes, I can see those sticks being real flavor bombs! I'm approaching it a little more conservatively, using a base of seco and adding various flavor and strength leaves to see what makes a good blend.

Here's a pic of my latest batch:










They came out a little funky as I was teaching a local BOTL how to roll / wrap.

Did you order the mold from Leafonly dot com? I've been looking at that one, but @Gdaddy hooked me up with a guy who's selling single molds in the proper configuration. I bought one, will probably pick up a few more in the near future. I've mainly been using PVC/hose clamp molds which work OK.


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## Rook83 (Apr 8, 2013)

Bruck said:


> Welcome to the RYO club, Shahukh!
> 
> Yes, I can see those sticks being real flavor bombs! I'm approaching it a little more conservatively, using a base of seco and adding various flavor and strength leaves to see what makes a good blend.
> 
> ...


Yeah i I went ahead and bought the mold from leafonly...it's a bit expensive, but I figured if I didn't like it, I could easily sell it or keep practicing....that's awesome that you were teaching someone to roll! My mold comes in tomorrow so I will be taking pics and vids of it...so I can see my mistakes and compare to vids on YouTube...after these leaves are done, I'll probably get a variety and try making different ones...your cigars came out nice man! What kind of glue did you use? I'm not sure the glue from leafonly is that great...it adheres great when the cigar is dried, but when it's still damp it falls apart a bit...maybe the mold will help with that also...we'll see tomorrow!


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## Bruck (Jan 8, 2013)

Rook83 said:


> Yeah i I went ahead and bought the mold from leafonly...it's a bit expensive, but I figured if I didn't like it, I could easily sell it or keep practicing....that's awesome that you were teaching someone to roll! My mold comes in tomorrow so I will be taking pics and vids of it...so I can see my mistakes and compare to vids on YouTube...after these leaves are done, I'll probably get a variety and try making different ones...your cigars came out nice man! What kind of glue did you use? I'm not sure the glue from leafonly is that great...it adheres great when the cigar is dried, but when it's still damp it falls apart a bit...maybe the mold will help with that also...we'll see tomorrow!


Yes, the mold will make a big difference. What I do is roll and bind, then put in the mold for a while (10 to 30 min usually) and trim the ends, then rotate 90 degrees to get rid of the ridges, then close the mold for 2 or more hours. After that I wrap. Did you get the round end mold or the open ended one?

For glue I started out using powdered gum arabic from my wife's art supplies, then switched to a cellulose glue that I got from the guy who sells single cigar molds. It is fantastic! I gave my wife back her gum arabic  PM me if you want the guy's e-mail address.


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## Rook83 (Apr 8, 2013)

Bruck said:


> Yes, the mold will make a big difference. What I do is roll and bind, then put in the mold for a while (10 to 30 min usually) and trim the ends, then rotate 90 degrees to get rid of the ridges, then close the mold for 2 or more hours. After that I wrap. Did you get the round end mold or the open ended one?
> 
> For glue I started out using powdered gum arabic from my wife's art supplies, then switched to a cellulose glue that I got from the guy who sells single cigar molds. It is fantastic! I gave my wife back her gum arabic  PM me if you want the guy's e-mail address.


I got the round cap one...didn't really know which one to pick, but I thought that one would help with my caps...I've only had one rolling session, so I'm gonna see if I like the glue tomorrow night...if not, I'll totally get that info from you...thanks for the advise man, didn't realize how much of an art from this is!


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## Gdaddy (Sep 20, 2012)

Bruck said:


> For glue I started out using powdered gum arabic from my wife's art supplies, then switched to a cellulose glue that I got from the guy who sells single cigar molds. It is fantastic! I gave my wife back her gum arabic  PM me if you want the guy's e-mail address.


I've been looking all over for that stuff. Had no idea he even carried it. I sent John an e-mail tonight.

I didn't like the taste of pectin at all so the gum Arabic was a good upgrade for some time now but from what I hear the cellulose is definitely the way to go. Especially need it for putting on the cap.


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## Rook83 (Apr 8, 2013)

Bruck said:


> Have you started rolling your own yet? How's it coming?


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## Rook83 (Apr 8, 2013)

Came out pretty well...not perfect yet, but I'll have to keep practicing...can't wait to smoke 'em!


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## Gdaddy (Sep 20, 2012)

Those look really good. The mold does a nice job doesn't it? Got to let them dry.

Looking forward to your review.


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## Rook83 (Apr 8, 2013)

Gdaddy said:


> Those look really good. The mold does a nice job doesn't it? Got to let them dry.
> 
> Looking forward to your review.


Oh yeah, the mold made a world of difference! Now I have to get better at leaf prep and maintenance. All is due time...


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## Gdaddy (Sep 20, 2012)

Rook83 said:


> Oh yeah, the mold made a world of difference! Now I have to get better at leaf prep and maintenance. All is due time...


I find that most of my time is spent on leaf prep. The rolling is quick and easy(and fun). Most of the video demonstrations show the last yard of cigar making in the rolling of the cigar. There are another 99 yards spent on the aging and processing and sorting and flattening and spraying and ...

The time spent preparing the tobacco is uninteresting but takes hundreds of man hours.

A poorly rolled cigar with good tobacco can still be a good tasting cigar but a well rolled cigar with crappy tobacco will still end up a crappy cigar.


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## Rook83 (Apr 8, 2013)

Gdaddy said:


> I find that most of my time is spent on leaf prep. The rolling is quick and easy(and fun). Most of the video demonstrations show the last yard of cigar making in the rolling of the cigar. There are another 99 yards spent on the aging and processing and sorting and flattening and spraying and ...
> 
> The time spent preparing the tobacco is uninteresting but takes hundreds of man hours.
> 
> A poorly rolled cigar with good tobacco can still be a good tasting cigar but a well rolled cigar with crappy tobacco will still end up a crappy cigar.


Very true...would you mind giving me your input on leaf prep? I just mist distilled water in the bag and seal for 1 - 2 days, remove the mid vein, and roll with a pin...they come out OK, but they are always so wrinkled which makes everything more difficult...I see these videos on youtube and the roller's binder or wrapper leaves are completely flat and smooth without wrinkles...is there a trick to using the rolling pin that I am not doing?


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## Bruck (Jan 8, 2013)

Rook83 said:


> View attachment 48691
> View attachment 48692
> View attachment 48693
> 
> ...


Very nice! Your cigars are way more photogenic than mine!


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## Rook83 (Apr 8, 2013)

Bruck said:


> Very nice! Your cigars are way more photogenic than mine!


Thanks! I'm just trying to get the hang of consistency...I dig the way yours look, especially those labels! I'm trying to find online how to prep wrappers and binders so that they are smooth and pliable...kind of like a stepwise list of what to do and how to accomplish a completely smooth cigar...hopefully if I find something, I'll post it here...


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## Rook83 (Apr 8, 2013)

Rook83 said:


> Oh yeah, the mold made a world of difference! Now I have to get better at leaf prep and maintenance. All is due time...


*in..hahaha dammit, I hate typos!


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## Bruck (Jan 8, 2013)

Rook83 said:


> Thanks! I'm just trying to get the hang of consistency...I dig the way yours look, especially those labels! I'm trying to find online how to prep wrappers and binders so that they are smooth and pliable...kind of like a stepwise list of what to do and how to accomplish a completely smooth cigar...hopefully if I find something, I'll post it here...


I just used regular printer paper, cut them with a paper cutter and scissors, and glued them on with cigar glue, as tight as I could get them.

Making a new batch tomorrow. I'll post a pic if they're not too much of a disaster  Trying some blends with more flavor leaves - viso, sumatra, cameroon, etc.


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## Rook83 (Apr 8, 2013)

Bruck said:


> I just used regular printer paper, cut them with a paper cutter and scissors, and glued them on with cigar glue, as tight as I could get them.
> 
> Making a new batch tomorrow. I'll post a pic if they're not too much of a disaster  Trying some blends with more flavor leaves - viso, sumatra, cameroon, etc.


Oh man, I've been wanting to try the sumatra blend...let me know if its easier to work with...I bought 'cigar labels' online...but they are matte...none are photo quality that I've come across...so when I print a black label, it doesn't look all that great...I'll try with photo paper some time and see if it gets better...


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## Gdaddy (Sep 20, 2012)

Rook83 said:


> Very true...would you mind giving me your input on leaf prep? I just mist distilled water in the bag and seal for 1 - 2 days, remove the mid vein, and roll with a pin...they come out OK, but they are always so wrinkled which makes everything more difficult...I see these videos on youtube and the roller's binder or wrapper leaves are completely flat and smooth without wrinkles...is there a trick to using the rolling pin that I am not doing?


I use the filler right out of the bag and add no moisture. It's very dry but doesn't quite crumble. Just remove the center vein(I use the pizza cutter here) My desk lamp serves as an x-ray to see if there are folds that need to be flattened. The ligero is a thick leaf and certainly gets no moisture either. I spritz the two binder leaves and quickly blot any remaining moisture from them. They want to be just moist enough to be pliable.

The wrapper leaf gets a good spray and let rest for an hour or so. Soft, moist and pliable but not wet.

Most of the the time spent prepping is removing any random stems and making sure that the leaves are totally unfolded. Rolling the leaf with a rolling pin seems to do nothing and is a waste of time. Especially make sure the leaf is unfolded to the outer edge. There's always 1/4 inch or more folded under and can cause irregular burning.

As ratty as the binder looks on a newly rolled cigar it comes out of the mold greatly improved. Even after putting on the wrapper and the cap I give it a quick 5 minute press in the mold.


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## Rook83 (Apr 8, 2013)

Gdaddy said:


> I use the filler right out of the bag and add no moisture. It's very dry but doesn't quite crumble. Just remove the center vein(I use the pizza cutter here) My desk lamp serves as an x-ray to see if there are folds that need to be flattened. The ligero is a thick leaf and certainly gets no moisture either. I spritz the two binder leaves and quickly blot any remaining moisture from them. They want to be just moist enough to be pliable.
> 
> The wrapper leaf gets a good spray and let rest for an hour or so. Soft, moist and pliable but not wet.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the detailed description...I was under the impression that rolling with a pin would flatten out the veins of the binder and wrapper...


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## Gdaddy (Sep 20, 2012)

One other point... The flavor, draw and burning quality should be your main area of concern. Appearance should be last on the list. I do like that the cigars are NOT perfect like store bought. I want it to look hand made this way people really get excited that it's a REAL hand rolled cigar instead of one of the same'old cigars claiming to be hand rolled. People are looking for a different experience, so if the performance is there no one will care what it looks like.


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## Bruck (Jan 8, 2013)

Gdaddy said:


> One other point... The flavor, draw and burning quality should be your main area of concern. Appearance should be last on the list. I do like that the cigars are NOT perfect like store bought. I want it to look hand made this way people really get excited that it's a REAL hand rolled cigar instead of one of the same'old cigars claiming to be hand rolled. People are looking for a different experience, so if the performance is there no one will care what it looks like.


Amen, bro!
Although I'm still working on them not looking like old man junk


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## Bruck (Jan 8, 2013)

Latest batch, y'all:










Wrappers are Ecuador Shade and Maduro. The Shade is great to work with, but gets discolored a bit when it gets too damp.
Binder is "Aleman," whatever that is. Anyway it was cheap and comes well-reputed.
Filler is about half seco (Piloto Cubano for about half till I ran out, then Columbian Seco which has a richer aroma), with various combinations of Dominican Ligero, Paraguay Viso, Sumatra, and Cameroon. It was kind of an informal design of experiments.


----------



## Bruck (Jan 8, 2013)

PS, I read on another forum that "Aleman" (Spanish for Germany) really is grown in Germany. It's then fermented/processed in DR.


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## Rook83 (Apr 8, 2013)

Bruck said:


> PS, I read on another forum that "Aleman" (Spanish for Germany) really is grown in Germany. It's then fermented/processed in DR.


Nice, have you smoked any yet?


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## Rook83 (Apr 8, 2013)

YouTube

This is the video of me rolling the cigars...can't believe it took me 14 minutes to do one hahaha!


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## Gdaddy (Sep 20, 2012)

Says the video is private. Can't be viewed


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## divedoc (Mar 7, 2013)

I dig the BROHIBA bands.


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## Rook83 (Apr 8, 2013)

Gdaddy said:


> Says the video is private. Can't be viewed


Ah, thanks for that...I just changed it....video is here...

This is how I roll a cigar - YouTube


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## Bruck (Jan 8, 2013)

Rook83 said:


> Nice, have you smoked any yet?


Haven't smoked any with the Aleman wrapper yet - they're still "marrying." (I like to hume the new sticks for a few weeks b/f smoking)

But it does work well for binder. And the reviews on fairtradetobacco say it's got a good flavor.


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## Bruck (Jan 8, 2013)

Rook83 said:


> Ah, thanks for that...I just changed it....video is here...
> 
> This is how I roll a cigar - YouTube


Great vid, I was the first viewer - I learned something - using a rolling pin to flatten out the veins!

You might try the Paraguay viso that leafonly sells - full of flavor, kind of a grainy/sweet sungrown taste.


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## Bruck (Jan 8, 2013)

divedoc said:


> I dig the BROHIBA bands.


Tnx. Mrs. Bruck helped out here with her computer art skills


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## Bruck (Jan 8, 2013)

Just had one of my first sticks with the Ecuador Maduro wrapper - you guys need to try this, excellent sweet/toasty flavor!

The maduro wrapper is a little tough to work with as it's pretty delicate, but definitely worth it.


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## Gdaddy (Sep 20, 2012)

Great video. Thanks for sharing.

My only comments would be...

The bag of binder leaf looked like the entire bag was fairly moist. They will begin to mold in a fairly short time and develop a sour odor and ammonia. I only moisten the amount of binder that will be used that day in a separate bag and leave the rest dry. The binder leaves hydrate in just a few minutes so they really don't need to soak over night.

This part made me scream... "NO, Don't do it !!"... You had a nice cigar then you lopped off a big wad of tobacco before it went in the mold and then after it came out you lopped off another big wad to meet your size criteria of a robusto. Hey, it's your baby but I'd take that cigar as it was rolled and just square the ends. If a robusto size is what you want then use less tobacco and you won't end up with that much waste. Just a thought to ponder.

Keep up the good work.


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## Gdaddy (Sep 20, 2012)

Picture just to clarify the vein direction for both wrapper and binder.


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## Rook83 (Apr 8, 2013)

Gdaddy said:


> Great video. Thanks for sharing.
> 
> My only comments would be...
> 
> ...


Yeah, I did end up with a ton of scraps...perhaps I'll measure beforehand and save some tobacco leaf!


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## Rook83 (Apr 8, 2013)

Bruck said:


> Just had one of my first sticks with the Ecuador Maduro wrapper - you guys need to try this, excellent sweet/toasty flavor!
> 
> The maduro wrapper is a little tough to work with as it's pretty delicate, but definitely worth it.


Thats the wrapper I'm using...can't wait to try it...I'm gonna let it sit in the humi for a few weeks or so first though, but man it smells great!


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## edwardsdigital (Mar 18, 2013)

I really hate you guys. Every time I see one of these threads I want to try rolling, but I just dont have the time right now to devote to it (let alone the space to store the materials). They all look great to me considering none of you are professional torcedores. 

Like always..... One Day!


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## OnePyroTec (Dec 11, 1997)

Bruck said:


> Just had one of my first sticks with the Ecuador Maduro wrapper - you guys need to try this, excellent sweet/toasty flavor!
> 
> The maduro wrapper is a little tough to work with as it's pretty delicate, but definitely worth it.


When you are up for a challenge LMK. I have some aged Brazilian maduro that is even tougher to work with.


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## Bruck (Jan 8, 2013)

Rook83 said:


> Thats the wrapper I'm using...can't wait to try it...I'm gonna let it sit in the humi for a few weeks or so first though, but man it smells great!


Yes, that's what I usually do - let them sit at least a few weeks, which stresses my patience as I'm experimenting with different blends and I want to try them all NOW


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## Bruck (Jan 8, 2013)

OnePyroTec said:


> When you are up for a challenge LMK. I have some aged Brazilian maduro that is even tougher to work with.


I believe it. From what I've read, maduro is naturally delicate as it's been fermented longer and at higher temperatures. And fermenting is basically a controlled rot.


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## Rook83 (Apr 8, 2013)

edwardsdigital said:


> I really hate you guys. Every time I see one of these threads I want to try rolling, but I just dont have the time right now to devote to it (let alone the space to store the materials). They all look great to me considering none of you are professional torcedores.
> 
> Like always..... One Day!


It's definitely fun...I got some leaf samples for pretty cheap from leaf only...


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## Bruck (Jan 8, 2013)

edwardsdigital said:


> I really hate you guys. Every time I see one of these threads I want to try rolling, but I just dont have the time right now to devote to it (let alone the space to store the materials). They all look great to me considering none of you are professional torcedores.
> 
> Like always..... One Day!


Doesn't take much space. Does take some time though.


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## Bruck (Jan 8, 2013)

Gdaddy said:


> Great video. Thanks for sharing.
> 
> My only comments would be...
> 
> ...


I think @Rook83 can afford to waste tobacco bcs he's rich. Did you see that hat he was wearing in the video? 

But it does raise the question - what do you do with your scraps?

For me, the longer pieces I re-use as filler, stuffing it in when I don't feel like I have enough in the cigar. & occasionally I'll make a "recycled" cigar filled entirely with scrap, but the flavor tends to be a bit of a mishmash. Shorter scraps I just save in a bag. I ordered a couple cheap pipes to see if cigar tobacco smokes okay that way.

I'm also doing a little project with a batch of scraps, attempting to make black cavendish, following this posting:

Making Black Cavendish Pipe Tobacco

Any other ideas?


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## Rook83 (Apr 8, 2013)

Bruck said:


> I think @Rook83 can afford to waste tobacco bcs he's rich. Did you see that hat he was wearing in the video?
> 
> But it does raise the question - what do you do with your scraps?
> 
> ...


Ha! Rich! I needed that laugh...3rd year med student, who's wife is also a 3rd year med student means that I'm worth more dead than alive hahaha....I like the pipe idea...I like to roll my scraps into my filler, but yeah I can see an odd mix of flavors...i have a whole bag of scraps...maybe I can make some chewing tobacco?


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## Bruck (Jan 8, 2013)

Rook83 said:


> Ha! Rich! I needed that laugh...3rd year med student, who's wife is also a 3rd year med student means that I'm worth more dead than alive hahaha....I like the pipe idea...I like to roll my scraps into my filler, but yeah I can see an odd mix of flavors...i have a whole bag of scraps...maybe I can make some chewing tobacco?


Well good luck with the studies! It's a long road but worth it. (not a Dr. myself but I have several friends that went that route - I'm an engineer myself).

I'll let y'all know how the cavendish turns out. It's in the steaming phase at this point. Doesn't smell too good but it is getting nice and black.

I've seen some recipes/processes on the web for making chewing tobacco. It looks a little tedious but doable.


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## Gdaddy (Sep 20, 2012)

Bruck said:


> Well good luck with the studies! It's a long road but worth it. (not a Dr. myself but I have several friends that went that route - I'm an engineer myself).
> 
> I'll let y'all know how the cavendish turns out. It's in the steaming phase at this point. Doesn't smell too good but it is getting nice and black.
> 
> I've seen some recipes/processes on the web for making chewing tobacco. It looks a little tedious but doable.


Yes! Please let us know what happens. I can't wait to hear.

Have got a big bag of scraps just looking for an experiment.


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## Hatattack (Jan 5, 2011)

I just saw this on my local CL, you be a pro!

Cigar Rollers Bench & Rocking Chair


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## Bruck (Jan 8, 2013)

Hatattack said:


> I just saw this on my local CL, you be a pro!
> 
> Cigar Rollers Bench & Rocking Chair


Broken link - what was it?


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## Bruck (Jan 8, 2013)

Gdaddy said:


> Yes! Please let us know what happens. I can't wait to hear.
> 
> Have got a big bag of scraps just looking for an experiment.


Re the cavendish - didn't turn out as well as on the website, but it basically worked. It's chopped and drying in my tobacco grotto. It will probably take a couple days to dry out. Smells like unflavored pipe tobacco. I've got a couple pipes coming in the mail soon so I'll be able to try it out.


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## Bruck (Jan 8, 2013)

Gdaddy said:


> Yes! Please let us know what happens. I can't wait to hear.
> 
> Have got a big bag of scraps just looking for an experiment.


Hello, Don, I finally got a Dr. Grabow in the mail & tried it out on a few different experiments:

Homemade Cavendish plain: You could say it worked - tasted like unflavored pipe tobacco basically. Not bad, just kind of dull. But they say Cavendish isn't really for smoking by itself; it needs to be blended with something or otherwise tarted up, and I would have to agree.

Homemade Cavendish with some flavoring: I cased some of my cavendish with a few drops of vanilla in some Irish whiskey (shooting in the dark here). It was pretty much the same as the plain Cavendish - I need to add more flavor.

Unadulterated cigar tobacco scraps (randomly selected pieces): pretty good! Basically like smoking a cigar but in convenient pipe configuration. I could see using this to burn thru some of the rolling scraps.

I'm going to see if I can find some real pipe tobacco tomorrow on my way home from work, & try some mixtures w/ the cigar tobacco. I realize that there are a zillion brands and flavors of pipe tobacco, so this will be more luck than science.


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## Bruck (Jan 8, 2013)

Latest batch:










14 in all, various lengths, 6 with Ecuador Maduro wrapper, 8 wrapped in Ecuador Shade. Binder is Aleman (born in Germany, processed in DR). Innards are a little stronger than my usual blend - a little more ligero and a little less seco.

Hat tip to @Rook83 - I used your idea of flattening the subveins on the wrappers and binders with a rolling pin.


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## Gdaddy (Sep 20, 2012)

Bruck said:


> Latest batch:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Really nice group of cigars! What are you using for filler?

Here's an excellent video a guy posted at Whole leaf showing a close up of of the triple cap method. BTW... that glue from John is the best.

Enjoy...

Habanos - YouTube


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## Bruck (Jan 8, 2013)

Gdaddy said:


> Really nice group of cigars! What are you using for filler?
> 
> Here's an excellent video a guy posted at Whole leaf showing a close up of of the triple cap method. BTW... that glue from John is the best.
> 
> ...


Tnx Don. Good video! Still working on caps.

Filler: my RYO sticks could use a bit more kick in the flavor and vitamin N department so I stepped it up a notch. One or two leaves of ligero (Dominican), one big leaf of viso (Paraguay), and one leaf of seco (Colombian). In a few of them I put a leaf of Sumatra or Cameroon - trying out these flavors as well. Other innovations for this batch are using fewer leaves in general (working on getting a good draw) and ironing out the veins in the wrapper and binder leaves for improved smoothness.

I picked up four more 7x52 molds from John. They're actually 8" long so I can roll some real monsters if I want  ...or just not use the whole thing and roll robustos.


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## Rook83 (Apr 8, 2013)

Bruck said:


> Latest batch:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Nice! I really liked the way they turned out! The wrapper looks really smooth...job well done man...mine come out a little less smooth than yours...but it is most likely my leaf prep. Even when I stretch the leaf while rolling, the wrapper still wrinkles...I was thinking about spraying the leaves and sealing them for two days...then roll with a pin...then somehow spread the leaves and maybe place a heavy book on them for an hour...I don't know if that will work...I know the professionals use a leaf flattening machine that compresses the veins and stretches and flattens them out...I read that somewhere...anyways, I'll probably roll another batch in a week or so...but great job on yours!


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## Bruck (Jan 8, 2013)

Rook83 said:


> Nice! I really liked the way they turned out! The wrapper looks really smooth...job well done man...mine come out a little less smooth than yours...but it is most likely my leaf prep. Even when I stretch the leaf while rolling, the wrapper still wrinkles...I was thinking about spraying the leaves and sealing them for two days...then roll with a pin...then somehow spread the leaves and maybe place a heavy book on them for an hour...I don't know if that will work...I know the professionals use a leaf flattening machine that compresses the veins and stretches and flattens them out...I read that somewhere...anyways, I'll probably roll another batch in a week or so...but great job on yours!


Tnx vm, Shahrukh. My cigar botox techniques:

Try to buy wrappers & binders that are less veiny - the Ecuador shade and maduro wrappers are good, and the Aleman binder as well. The CT broadleaf that I started out on had very thick, woody veins.

Use a mold - I see you do this too.

Developed a technique of "pulling" while binding and wrapping - keeps the leaf taut and smooth.

Wrap on a stainless steel surface - the damp leaf adheres to the surface to keep it stretched smooth.

When wrapping, orient the wrapper leaf so the outside edge is on top, so the actual surface of the cigar shows the smaller ends of the veins

Stole your idea - roll the veins flat with a rolling pin

Also, @Gdaddy puts the wrapped cigar back in the mold for a while after wrapping - I haven't tried this yet, but will have to look into it.

Let us know if flattening the leaves under your PDR helps 

One more thing - if there are any blemishes near the cap end, that's where I put the band


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## Gdaddy (Sep 20, 2012)

I saw a video at the Rocky Patel factory where they would put cigars in a box press mold over night after the wrappers were on. So I figured a finish press doesn't hurt them. 

My daughter has a kitchen aid mixer that has a pasta roller on it. Two adjustable rollers to set at any thickness running at a nice slow speed. I've been thinking about that lately but she might not like tobacco getting run through it.


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## Bruck (Jan 8, 2013)

Gdaddy said:


> My daughter has a kitchen aid mixer that has a pasta roller on it. Two adjustable rollers to set at any thickness running at a nice slow speed. I've been thinking about that lately but she might not like tobacco getting run through it.


It won't be a problem if you don't tell her 

FWIW, when I was making psuedo-Cavendish from my tobacco scraps, I used my wife's steamer and 6-qt cooking pot. The tobacco steamed for several hours and stained the steamer and pot pretty dark, but they cleaned right up with soap and water.


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## Rook83 (Apr 8, 2013)

@Bruck @Gdaddy so the one thing I didn't do is press after the wrapper...half of my sticks are wrapped with Cameroon and those wrappers are so fragile that I was nervous to do that...the Maduro wrappers I have can take it just fine I'm sure...I just smoked two of my finished ones after a week in the humi. The Maduro wrapped one was very chocolatey, and a nice mild-medium stick...the Cameroon was an absolute flavor bomb...excellent taste and I was super happy with the draw and results...I have a ton of Cameroon leaf left, but its difficult to consistently get it wrapped without ripping...I read that its one of the tougher leaves to work with...I'm going to roll next Saturday...after drying out, spending 72 hours in the freezer, if y'all want to try one, PM me your address and I'll send one or two...thanks for all the advice...on my next roll, I'm going to press post wrap and see if they smoothen out completely...I know that flavor beats appearance, but I just want them to look great too! :cowboyic9:


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## Bruck (Jan 8, 2013)

Very good - I am planning on getting some cameroon wrapper in my next leafonly order.

You might try the Ecuador shade wrapper - it's pretty sturdy & smooth. Taste is nutty/creamy. Would be fun to swap a couple RYOs - I'll PM you my addr.


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## Gdaddy (Sep 20, 2012)

Rook83 said:


> @Bruck @Gdaddy so the one thing I didn't do is press after the wrapper...half of my sticks are wrapped with Cameroon and those wrappers are so fragile that I was nervous to do that...the Maduro wrappers I have can take it just fine I'm sure...I just smoked two of my finished ones after a week in the humi. The Maduro wrapped one was very chocolatey, and a nice mild-medium stick...the Cameroon was an absolute flavor bomb...excellent taste and I was super happy with the draw and results...I have a ton of Cameroon leaf left, but its difficult to consistently get it wrapped without ripping...I read that its one of the tougher leaves to work with...I'm going to roll next Saturday...after drying out, spending 72 hours in the freezer, if y'all want to try one, PM me your address and I'll send one or two...thanks for all the advice...on my next roll, I'm going to press post wrap and see if they smoothen out completely...I know that flavor beats appearance, but I just want them to look great too! :cowboyic9:


I'd love to try one. I'm PM my address later tonight.

You put put the Cameroon in the freezer? Before rolling it? You got this from Leafonly right?

After finished rolling with the wrapper I always immediately place it in the mold for a final press while it's still moist. Half hour does it just fine. Adds the final 5% improvement to the cigar.


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## Gdaddy (Sep 20, 2012)

Rook83...What's the rest of the blend consist of?

Bruce...what's the flavor story on the Aleman???


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## Gdaddy (Sep 20, 2012)

Bruck said:


> Very good - I am planning on getting some cameroon wrapper in my next leafonly order.
> 
> You might try the Ecuador shade wrapper - it's pretty sturdy & smooth. Taste is nutty/creamy. Would be fun to swap a couple RYOs - I'll PM you my addr.


Before you order let's see what the Cameroon is like. I can tell you the Corojo from whole leaf is an amazing wrapper(deep red color) and I'd like to see how it compares.

I also tried the Havana 7 from leafonly and it was like latex rubber. Real stretchy and slight red toned also.


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## Rook83 (Apr 8, 2013)

Gdaddy said:


> I'd love to try one. I'm PM my address later tonight.
> 
> You put put the Cameroon in the freezer? Before rolling it? You got this from Leafonly right?
> 
> After finished rolling with the wrapper I always immediately place it in the mold for a final press while it's still moist. Half hour does it just fine. Adds the final 5% improvement to the cigar.


I put the Cameroon in the freezer after I rolled them...yeah I bought them from leaf only...super delicate even when properly hydrated...but the flavor is fantastic!


----------



## Rook83 (Apr 8, 2013)

Gdaddy said:


> Rook83...What's the rest of the blend consist of?
> 
> Bruce...what's the flavor story on the Aleman???


1) Filler: Nicaraguan viso long filler + Cameroon filler; Binder: PA Oscuro; Wrapper: Cameroon
2) Filler: Nicaraguan viso long filler; Binder: Connecticut; Wrapper: Connecticut Maduro


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## Gdaddy (Sep 20, 2012)

Rook83 said:


> 1) Filler: Nicaraguan viso long filler + Cameroon filler; Binder: PA Oscuro; Wrapper: Cameroon
> 2) Filler: Nicaraguan viso long filler; Binder: Connecticut; Wrapper: Connecticut Maduro


What, no ligero?


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## Bruck (Jan 8, 2013)

Gdaddy said:


> Rook83...What's the rest of the blend consist of?
> 
> Bruce...what's the flavor story on the Aleman???


I just use Aleman for binder and to be honest, I can't tell if it adds or changes anything. So I'd have to say it's subtle and non-objectionable  It is a very good binder, nice and strong w/o obtrusive veins, and the price is right as well.

There are some reviews of that leaf for various purposes on the free trade tobacco forums and they're all pretty positive.


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## Bruck (Jan 8, 2013)

Gdaddy said:


> Before you order let's see what the Cameroon is like. I can tell you the Corojo from whole leaf is an amazing wrapper(deep red color) and I'd like to see how it compares.
> 
> I also tried the Havana 7 from leafonly and it was like latex rubber. Real stretchy and slight red toned also.


Latex rubber - is that good or bad? I've been eyeing the Havana 7 as well. Nice thing abt Leaf Only is that most of their stuff can be bought by the 1/4 pound so you can experiment.


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## Gdaddy (Sep 20, 2012)

Bruck said:


> Latex rubber - is that good or bad? I've been eyeing the Havana 7 as well. Nice thing abt Leaf Only is that most of their stuff can be bought by the 1/4 pound so you can experiment.


That's a good thing!

The stuff was the stretchiest wrapper I've tried. Strong and elastic. Really fun to roll and tasted good also. I'd also like to try the Havana primed. These are strong and I like it!

I agree that the 1/4 lb. samples are wonderful to experiment with and I wish WLT did the same thing.

I got stuck on Maduro wrappers for many years and now these new wrappers are winning me over.


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## Gdaddy (Sep 20, 2012)

FYI... on the leafonly forum has a guy named 'Roxy' who rolls some really professional sticks and he uses the Havana 7 also.


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## Bruck (Jan 8, 2013)

Gdaddy said:


> That's a good thing!
> 
> The stuff was the stretchiest wrapper I've tried. Strong and elastic. Really fun to roll and tasted good also. I'd also like to try the Havana primed. These are strong and I like it!
> 
> ...


I bet we could get WLT to sell smaller units. I've gotten a couple half pounds from them but the situation was that they didn't have a whole pound of what I wanted at the time. There's a guy named Don there who I think is the owner, who is pretty accommodating. At any rate, I'll definitely have to get some of the Havana 7.


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## Rook83 (Apr 8, 2013)

Gdaddy said:


> What, no ligero?


No ligero...I just wanted to initially experiment before I bought different variations...I think the viso holds its own strength wise...my sticks so far have been mild-medium...which is typically what I prefer...I think I'm gonna get some Brazilian leaf next time, as I love CAO cigars...it'll probably be next month though...


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## Bruck (Jan 8, 2013)

@Gdaddy, @Rook83, et al: I made some flake tobacco out of cigar scraps - wrote up the experience in the pipes forum, if you're interested:

homemade-flake-1st-attempt

I'll probably post this on the free trade forum as well.


----------



## Bruck (Jan 8, 2013)

And for your viewing pleasure, my latest batch, just finished wrapping them:










An assortment of Ecuador Shade, Ecuador Maduro, and Cameroon wrappers; binders are all Aleman, and fillers are several combinations of Dominican Ligero, Colombian Seco, Paraguay viso, Brazilian viso, Cameroon seco, and Sumatra seco (not all at the same time  ). Also in a few of these I threw in a leaf of VA flue cured - thought I'd see what a little cigarette tobacco does to the flavor profile.


----------



## quo155 (Aug 10, 2010)

Bruck said:


> And for your viewing pleasure, my latest batch, just finished wrapping them:
> 
> An assortment of Ecuador Shade, Ecuador Maduro, and Cameroon wrappers; binders are all Aleman, and fillers are several combinations of Dominican Ligero, Colombian Seco, Paraguay viso, Brazilian viso, Cameroon seco, and Sumatra seco (not all at the same time  ). Also in a few of these I threw in a leaf of VA flue cured - thought I'd see what a little cigarette tobacco does to the flavor profile.


Looking great Bruck!


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## Rook83 (Apr 8, 2013)

Bruck said:


> @Gdaddy, @Rook83, et al: I made some flake tobacco out of cigar scraps - wrote up the experience in the pipes forum, if you're interested:
> 
> homemade-flake-1st-attempt
> 
> I'll probably post this on the free trade forum as well.


That is too cool! I've never smoked a pipe, but that is a really cool idea...I'm going to see how much scrappage I have and see it chewing tobacco would be a good idea...


----------



## Bruck (Jan 8, 2013)

Rook83 said:


> That is too cool! I've never smoked a pipe, but that is a really cool idea...I'm going to see how much scrappage I have and see it chewing tobacco would be a good idea...


Chewing tobacco is a little easier to make, and there are numerous recipes for it on the interwebs, including the free trade site. I'm not really into chaw myself, so I haven't gone in this direction. Actually pipe smoking is something I recently picked up, mainly as a way to consume the excess tobacco from cigar rolling. An inveterate cheapskate like me can't just throw it away! I don't really like mixing scrap into fillers as it introduces a basically uncontrolled variable in the flavor profile, and I've found that all-scrap fillers tend to be yard gars at best (sorry agn for sending you one!).


----------



## Bruck (Jan 8, 2013)

quo155 said:


> Looking great Bruck!


Tnx very much. A few of them have my first attempts at the "Cuban Triple Cap."


----------



## Rook83 (Apr 8, 2013)

Bruck said:


> Chewing tobacco is a little easier to make, and there are numerous recipes for it on the interwebs, including the free trade site. I'm not really into chaw myself, so I haven't gone in this direction. Actually pipe smoking is something I recently picked up, mainly as a way to consume the excess tobacco from cigar rolling. An inveterate cheapskate like me can't just throw it away! I don't really like mixing scrap into fillers as it introduces a basically uncontrolled variable in the flavor profile, and I've found that all-scrap fillers tend to be yard gars at best (sorry agn for sending you one!).


No sorries brother...anything in my humidor is worthy of smoking...I don't tend to chew a lot...wife hates it, but every now again I've got the hankerin' for some...and in Chicago, each tin is about $9...insane prices...


----------



## Bruck (Jan 8, 2013)

Rook83 said:


> No sorries brother...anything in my humidor is worthy of smoking...I don't tend to chew a lot...wife hates it, but every now again I've got the hankerin' for some...and in Chicago, each tin is about $9...insane prices...


Hey, what are you doing online during the day? You should be doing your med homework 
My excuse is I threw out my back over the weekend and am taking a sick day. Hopefully I can get back to the office tomorrow.


----------



## Rook83 (Apr 8, 2013)

Bruck said:


> Hey, what are you doing online during the day? You should be doing your med homework
> My excuse is I threw out my back over the weekend and am taking a sick day. Hopefully I can get back to the office tomorrow.


Hahaha! Its a slow day, and I'm about to go on vacay back down to TX for a bit...Gotta take care of some house stuff for my folks...sorry you threw your back out man...I can imagine how much pain that would be...feel better...Ibuprofen and ice/heat!


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## quo155 (Aug 10, 2010)

@Rock83...you've done an outstanding job on these cigars! Keep it up!!!


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## Bruck (Jan 8, 2013)

Right now I'm smoking just about one of the best sticks I've rolled so far:
Wrapper: Ecuador maduro
Binder: Aleman
Filler: a little Dominican Ligero, Paraguay viso, Piloto seco, and a leaf of Cameroon seco. The Cameroon and maduro really work well together!


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## Gdaddy (Sep 20, 2012)

Bruck said:


> Right now I'm smoking just about one of the best sticks I've rolled so far:
> Wrapper: Ecuador maduro
> Binder: Aleman
> Filler: a little Dominican Ligero, Paraguay viso, Piloto seco, and a leaf of Cameroon seco. The Cameroon and maduro really work well together!


I have a slight variation of this blend and I really like it too. Have got some Aleman ligero thrown in there and Piloto viso instead of Paraguay viso. Have you tried the Aleman seco as a wrapper? It's a beautiful dark maduro and I like it much better than the Equador maduro. It rolls better, more stretchy and I believe it tastes better too. I feel guilty using it as binder.

Rolled several where I did the same blend but did Nicaraguan ligero and Aleman ligero together. What a cigar! The ligero makes a huge impact on the overall flavor of the cigar. Been using a half leaf of each. I am a nicotine baby and it's not too much for me.

Your cigars are looking better each time. The triple cap will get easier and easier with practice. It really gives a nice finished look to the cigar and well worth learning.


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## Gdaddy (Sep 20, 2012)

Just remembered, this was a good one also..

Nicaraguan seco binder 2 half leaves
Pilioto seco filler
Aleman ligero

Aleman maduro wrapper

It's simple but the Piloto is very mild and lets the flavor of the Aleman be the star of the show. The Piloto also burns well like a Volado.

If you're looking for a perfect burning cigar use the thinnest leaf you can as wrapper. I really like the results from using a Nic seco or Dominican seco leaf as a wrapper. It's delicate but makes a beautiful looking cigar with minimal veins and a medium brown color. Highly recommended and you'd never know it was a simple seco leaf. I'll try to post some photos tomorrow.


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## Rook83 (Apr 8, 2013)

quo155 said:


> @Rock83...you've done an outstanding job on these cigars! Keep it up!!!


Thanks man! Can't wait to beef up the funds and try new combinations!


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## quo155 (Aug 10, 2010)

I may get some laughs here...but I rolled my own last week and enjoyed the heck out of it tonight! There are all sorts of things wrong with this one...but that's ok, it was a start! I had it too loose (working on that), I didn't get the veins right (I didn't care at the time, just wanted to start!!) But, it smoked great...I enjoyed it...I had it...so I smoked it!

A long road ahead of me, but that's part of the fun in this hobby!


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## Rook83 (Apr 8, 2013)

quo155 said:


> I may get some laughs here...but I rolled my own last week and enjoyed the heck out of it tonight! There are all sorts of things wrong with this one...but that's ok, it was a start! I had it too loose (working on that), I didn't get the veins right (I didn't care at the time, just wanted to start!!) But, it smoked great...I enjoyed it...I had it...so I smoked it!
> 
> A long road ahead of me, but that's part of the fun in this hobby!


Nicely done brother...no laughs here...we all started somewhere...hell I just started last month I think...A few things I've noticed...and please anyone chime in...
1) Leaf prep is key. My filler tends to be on the dry side...but my binders and wrappers are always a bit too damp...this is because I am impatient.
2) As far as rolling the filler into the binder, there are various methods. The 'entubado' method seems to be the favorite amongst the professionals, but I just roll my filler as if I am wrapping it with a binder...once the shape is achieved and is relatively smooth, then I wrap with a binder.
3) Cigar glue is super important...the one I bought online (not going to mention the store name because everything else was great) was not of good quality in my opinion, even after following directions. If you use a tad bit of glue on the outer border of the wrapper and binder as you're rolling, the cigar becomes pretty solid.
4) I'd rather have too tight than too loose. You can always loosen a cigar while you're smoking it.
5) Mold is for looks...I only bought one because I was bored and I wanted to see how smooth I could make them...
6) What I learned from the gents and gals on this site, specifically this thread: Who cares what it looks like? As long as it tastes good and smokes good!

Keep rolling and share your experience/blends with us so we can all experiment with this stuff...congrats on your tasty cigar...its super fun and the folks on this forum are amazing! Beware...buying leaves will leave you thin in the wallet!


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## Rook83 (Apr 8, 2013)

By the way, I like your chaveta! Where did you get one? I'm using a [email protected]&! pizza cutter!


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## quo155 (Aug 10, 2010)

Rook83 said:


> By the way, I like your chaveta! Where did you get one? I'm using a [email protected]&! pizza cutter!


No other place...but the BEST place to get leaf, they have these chavetas: Genuine Hand Made Chaveta

Also, thank you for the nice comments and for allowing me to jack your thread!


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## Gdaddy (Sep 20, 2012)

Rook83 said:


> Nicely done brother...no laughs here...we all started somewhere...hell I just started last month I think...A few things I've noticed...and please anyone chime in...
> 1) Leaf prep is key. My filler tends to be on the dry side...but my binders and wrappers are always a bit too damp...this is because I am impatient.
> 2) As far as rolling the filler into the binder, there are various methods. The 'entubado' method seems to be the favorite amongst the professionals, but I just roll my filler as if I am wrapping it with a binder...once the shape is achieved and is relatively smooth, then I wrap with a binder.
> 3) Cigar glue is super important...the one I bought online (not going to mention the store name because everything else was great) was not of good quality in my opinion, even after following directions. If you use a tad bit of glue on the outer border of the wrapper and binder as you're rolling, the cigar becomes pretty solid.
> ...


Cigar glue is super important. I used pectin in the beginning and had to cut the wrappers off almost 50 cigars. It was horribly bitter. Why people recommend this stuff is beyond me. Doesn't anyone ever taste it? You seem to be gluing the entire length. I did that also in the beginning but came to realize that it was a waste of time.

I finally made my way to cellulose glue and is widely used in the cigar industry. It is the best I've used...by far.


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## Gdaddy (Sep 20, 2012)

Rook83 said:


> By the way, I like your chaveta! Where did you get one? I'm using a [email protected]&! pizza cutter!


I love my large wheel pizza cutter. Made by Cutco and is high quality with no wheel wobble and perfect cuts. I'd rather spend the money on another pound of tobacco leaf than a chaveta. I also find the pizza cutter easier to use. I see a lot of guys buying the tuck cutter also for $200 plus. This is for production workers and does nothing for the amateur roller. The money spent on that tuck cutter would buy a big pile of beautiful tobacco leaf. A simple cigar cutter or even a pair of scissors does just as good a job.


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## Rook83 (Apr 8, 2013)

Gdaddy said:


> I love my large wheel pizza cutter. Made by Cutco and is high quality with no wheel wobble and perfect cuts. I'd rather spend the money on another pound of tobacco leaf than a chaveta. I also find the pizza cutter easier to use. I see a lot of guys buying the tuck cutter also for $200 plus. This is for production workers and does nothing for the amateur roller. The money spent on that tuck cutter would buy a big pile of beautiful tobacco leaf. A simple cigar cutter or even a pair of scissors does just as good a job.


Yeah I saw those tuck cutters...only for a second hahaha! Yeah, I bought a POS pizza cutter from Walmart for $0.99...I definitely have wobble...maybe I won't be such a cheapskate and buy one for $5!


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## Gdaddy (Sep 20, 2012)

Rook83 said:


> Yeah I saw those tuck cutters...only for a second hahaha! Yeah, I bought a POS pizza cutter from Walmart for $0.99...I definitely have wobble...maybe I won't be such a cheapskate and buy one for $5!


Get a large wheel and check the center attachment to make sure it has little wobble. Get a good one and check the center attachment. My cutco is tight with no wobble. The blade on a large wheel cutter is about as big as a chaveta. So I could take the blade off and use it like a chaveta, which I've done and found it to be more difficult to use than a rolling wheel. I've seen Cuban rollers use a knife blade or a machete but I would use that either.

The tuck cutter is really used for a 'cut to length' measurement tool as well as a cutter so it's is good for production work. I don't have any length restrictions so whatever they turn out to be is how I smoke'em.


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## Rook83 (Apr 8, 2013)

Gdaddy said:


> Get a large wheel and check the center attachment to make sure it has little wobble. Get a good one and check the center attachment. My cutco is tight with no wobble. The blade on a large wheel cutter is about as big as a chaveta. So I could take the blade off and use it like a chaveta, which I've done and found it to be more difficult to use than a rolling wheel. I've seen Cuban rollers use a knife blade or a machete but I would use that either.
> 
> The tuck cutter is really used for a 'cut to length' measurement tool as well as a cutter so it's is good for production work. I don't have any length restrictions so whatever they turn out to be is how I smoke'em.


Holy crap! A machete would be insane...


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## Bruck (Jan 8, 2013)

Gdaddy said:


> Just remembered, this was a good one also..
> 
> Nicaraguan seco binder 2 half leaves
> Pilioto seco filler
> ...


Sounds good. I just started using some Cameroon leaves for wrappers, did 2 so far. Got the leaves in a Leafonly sample. Don't know how they taste yet, but they rolled perfectly and smell great. Even Mrs. Bruck, who normally is pretty blase about my RYO hobby, said wow, that really looks good!


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## Bruck (Jan 8, 2013)

Gdaddy said:


> Just remembered, this was a good one also..
> 
> Nicaraguan seco binder 2 half leaves
> Pilioto seco filler
> ...


I'm smoking almost that exact thing right now except with a shade wrapper. Very nice, nutty, sweet, tangy.


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## Gdaddy (Sep 20, 2012)

This is a simple Nicaraquan seco leaf used as a wrapper and it makes a great tasting and sharp burning cigar.


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## Bruck (Jan 8, 2013)

Gdaddy said:


> This is a simple Nicaraquan seco leaf used as a wrapper and it makes a great tasting and sharp burning cigar.
> 
> View attachment 49186


That's absolutely beautiful! Great rolling. Of course with the picture cut off I can't see what the bottom half looks like


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## Gdaddy (Sep 20, 2012)

Try this one...Here's the Aleman seco wrapper.


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## quo155 (Aug 10, 2010)

Gdaddy said:


> Try this one...Here's the Aleman seco wrapper.





Gdaddy said:


> This is a simple Nicaraquan seco leaf used as a wrapper and it makes a great tasting and sharp burning cigar.


Great! Great job Gdaddy!!!


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## Bruck (Jan 8, 2013)

Gdaddy said:


> Try this one...Here's the Aleman seco wrapper.
> 
> View attachment 49188


Looks good. Was that sold as a wrapper, or did you just find a leaf in the seco bag that was in good enough shape to be one?


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## Gdaddy (Sep 20, 2012)

Bruck said:


> Looks good. Was that sold as a wrapper, or did you just find a leaf in the seco bag that was in good enough shape to be one?


No, both were sold as seco. Picked a leaf and wrapped it up. Lots of good leaf in the Aleman seco.


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## Bruck (Jan 8, 2013)

Gdaddy said:


> No, both were sold as seco. Picked a leaf and wrapped it up. Lots of good leaf in the Aleman seco.


That might be a way to cheap out a bit on the RYOs - just look for nice leaves among the filler batches, since leaves sold as wrappers tend to be abt 2x as expensive. Plus, I'm finding that even when I flatten the veins with a rolling pin, they still tend to protrude, at least for most of the wrappers I've tried from WLT and Leafonly.


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## quo155 (Aug 10, 2010)

Bruck said:


> That might be a way to cheap out a bit on the RYOs - just look for nice leaves among the filler batches, since leaves sold as wrappers tend to be abt 2x as expensive. Plus, I'm finding that even when I flatten the veins with a rolling pin, they still tend to protrude, at least for most of the wrappers I've tried from WLT and Leafonly.


Bruce, I'm right there with you! I've only rolled a total of 5 (LOL) but I am having the hardest time with the binders and wrappers. I just assume it's due to my lack of experience...or my fat fingers!


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## Gdaddy (Sep 20, 2012)

quo155 said:


> Bruce, I'm right there with you! I've only rolled a total of 5 (LOL) but I am having the hardest time with the binders and wrappers. I just assume it's due to my lack of experience...or my fat fingers!


A good exercise is when you roll a cigar and it's not quite right un-roll it and start over until it is right. No harm done and don't settle for imperfection. Roll one cigar until you can do it right.

Are you laying out the veins in the right direction?


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## quo155 (Aug 10, 2010)

Gdaddy said:


> A good exercise is when you roll a cigar and it's not quite right un-roll it and start over until it is right. No harm done and don't settle for imperfection. Roll one cigar until you can do it right.
> 
> Are you laying out the veins in the right direction?


Yes, I got the veins going the in the right direction, now. I agree...I should just keep re-rolling the cigar until it fills right.

I'm just realizing that there is a lot of necessary leaf prep to be done, something I had not thought of.

Thanks!


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## Rook83 (Apr 8, 2013)

quo155 said:


> Yes, I got the veins going the in the right direction, now. I agree...I should just keep re-rolling the cigar until it fills right.
> 
> I'm just realizing that there is a lot of necessary leaf prep to be done, something I had not thought of.
> 
> Thanks!


Leaf prep and patience...thats the hardest part for me...but once its done, the leaves are soooo much easier to work with and tend to rip less...


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## bigLuke5595 (May 22, 2014)

I respect any man who would roll his own cigar. I used to roll my own cigarettes back when I smoked the nasty things and I cant even imagine rolling something so enormous. Roll long and prosper!


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## Bruck (Jan 8, 2013)

quo155 said:


> Yes, I got the veins going the in the right direction, now. I agree...I should just keep re-rolling the cigar until it fills right.
> 
> I'm just realizing that there is a lot of necessary leaf prep to be done, something I had not thought of.
> 
> Thanks!


Also, in case it's not obvious, when you orient the wrapper leaf, make sure the outer edge of the leaf is up (away from you). This way, the small end of the veins will be exposed (assuming you're rolling up, i.e., away from yourself - that's the only way I've seen it done).


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## Bruck (Jan 8, 2013)

bigLuke5595 said:


> I respect any man who would roll his own cigar. I used to roll my own cigarettes back when I smoked the nasty things and I cant even imagine rolling something so enormous. Roll long and prosper!


That's what I used to think last year. But earlier this year I took a lesson (demo really) at the Graycliff factory in Nassau (Bahamas) & was hooked.

It's actually not that hard to roll something smokeable. Getting them to look good is what a lot of this discussion is about, with blending for flavor a close second.


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## Rook83 (Apr 8, 2013)

Bruck said:


> That's what I used to think last year. But earlier this year I took a lesson (demo really) at the Graycliff factory in Nassau (Bahamas) & was hooked.
> 
> It's actually not that hard to roll something smokeable. Getting them to look good is what a lot of this discussion is about, with blending for flavor a close second.


That is awesome! I would love to take a seminar/class one day...especially at a known cigar factory...haven't found any in Chicago that offer classes, but in Ft. Worth and Austin they have 7 day courses...and I'm sure a ton of places in Miami...although they are super expensive...


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## Bruck (Jan 8, 2013)

Rook83 said:


> That is awesome! I would love to take a seminar/class one day...especially at a known cigar factory...haven't found any in Chicago that offer classes, but in Ft. Worth and Austin they have 7 day courses...and I'm sure a ton of places in Miami...although they are super expensive...


At this point, I think lessons would be superfluous. You're doing pretty well and I would bet that the hints and tips you pick up here and on the free trade forum are all you need.

The lesson at Graycliff was $75 & lasted a couple hours. Prior to that I knew nothing, zip, nada, zero about rolling a cigar other than a vague impression that tobacco was somehow involved.


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## Rook83 (Apr 8, 2013)

Bruck said:


> At this point, I think lessons would be superfluous. You're doing pretty well and I would bet that the hints and tips you pick up here and on the free trade forum are all you need.
> 
> The lesson at Graycliff was $75 & lasted a couple hours. Prior to that I knew nothing, zip, nada, zero about rolling a cigar other than a vague impression that tobacco was somehow involved.


True...$75?? Man, these classes in Austin are $1200 for a week! But you get some kind of an educational credit or something...so not really sure what all that entails...what I want to learn and perfect, and I'm sure that practice and supply would make do, is how they roll such a beautiful cigar without a mold...I guess just getting consistent thickness throughout the stick and taking only 5-10 minutes to roll a cigar from start to finish...but I'm sure if I keep at it, I'll get close to there...I'm sure these torcedors get the best possible leaves, which have been deveined and pre-prepped...


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## Rook83 (Apr 8, 2013)

@quo155 not to stray off topic, but are the bullets in your picture .357s?


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## bigLuke5595 (May 22, 2014)

Bruck said:


> That's what I used to think last year. But earlier this year I took a lesson (demo really) at the Graycliff factory in Nassau (Bahamas) & was hooked.
> 
> It's actually not that hard to roll something smokeable. Getting them to look good is what a lot of this discussion is about, with blending for flavor a close second.


What would you say, from personal experience, is the harder style/shape to roll? If you have gotten that far into it


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## Bruck (Jan 8, 2013)

bigLuke5595 said:


> What would you say, from personal experience, is the harder style/shape to roll? If you have gotten that far into it


I've only rolled cylindrical ones in the 48-52 RG range. The different shapes are made by choice of mold. But from what I've heard, the narrower ones like lanceros are quite challenging. I can see that - even with the fatties I roll it's hard to get the distribution even, so I would expect that it's even tougher with the skinny ones.

I'm guessing the culebra would be toughest, but I'm not going to even attempt that!


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## Bruck (Jan 8, 2013)

Rook83 said:


> True...$75?? Man, these classes in Austin are $1200 for a week! But you get some kind of an educational credit or something...so not really sure what all that entails...what I want to learn and perfect, and I'm sure that practice and supply would make do, is *how they roll such a beautiful cigar without a mold.*..I guess just getting consistent thickness throughout the stick and taking only 5-10 minutes to roll a cigar from start to finish...but I'm sure if I keep at it, I'll get close to there...I'm sure these torcedors get the best possible leaves, which have been deveined and pre-prepped...


Indeed - I'm just now smoking the last of the cigars that we rolled during our little lesson. We used no mold and it came out pretty smooth, in a roughly torpedo shape, but not up to production standards.

OTOH, even the pros use molds most of the time.


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## bigLuke5595 (May 22, 2014)

Bruck said:


> I've only rolled cylindrical ones in the 48-52 RG range. The different shapes are made by choice of mold. But from what I've heard, the narrower ones like lanceros are quite challenging. I can see that - even with the fatties I roll it's hard to get the distribution even, so I would expect that it's even tougher with the skinny ones.
> 
> I'm guessing the culebra would be toughest, but I'm not going to even attempt that!


A culebra or an egg most likely lolol xD well if you are ever interested in relieving yourself of one of your cigars, I would happily trade two or three for one, sounds like a real treat!


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## Bruck (Jan 8, 2013)

bigLuke5595 said:


> A culebra or an egg most likely lolol xD well if you are ever interested in relieving yourself of one of your cigars, I would happily trade two or three for one, sounds like a real treat!


I'd be happy to do a little trade. You don't seem to have PM activated in your acct though. (don't want to trade contact info in the open forum).


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## bigLuke5595 (May 22, 2014)

Bruck said:


> I'd be happy to do a little trade. You don't seem to have PM activated in your acct though. (don't want to trade contact info in the open forum).


Absolutely, I wouldn't do such a thing either. I have pm in...4 days! I think. Sounds about right anyways. I made my account yesterday. I will contact you as soon as I get PM abilities! I'll send you a little assortment that I think any cigar lover would enjoy


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## Rook83 (Apr 8, 2013)

Now what kind of mold did they use here? hahaha!


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## Bruck (Jan 8, 2013)

Rook83 said:


> View attachment 49230
> 
> 
> Now what kind of mold did they use here? hahaha!


Nice setup. Do you go though a lot of neighbors?


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## Bruck (Jan 8, 2013)

bigLuke5595 said:


> Absolutely, I wouldn't do such a thing either. I have pm in...4 days! I think. Sounds about right anyways. I made my account yesterday. I will contact you as soon as I get PM abilities! I'll send you a little assortment that I think any cigar lover would enjoy


Oh, I see you're pretty new here. Welcome aboard!


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## Rook83 (Apr 8, 2013)

ok...wrong picture...I am not good with computers!


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## Rook83 (Apr 8, 2013)

View attachment 85803


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## Rook83 (Apr 8, 2013)

Bruck said:


> Nice setup. Do you go though a lot of neighbors?


hahaha! I swear...I tried uploading a picture of the Sopranos cigars that are shaped like wine bottles, bullets, and a bat...I can't even blame the computer for that error!


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## bigLuke5595 (May 22, 2014)

Bruck said:


> Oh, I see you're pretty new here. Welcome aboard!


Thanks plenty mate!:mrgreen::mrgreen::mrgreen:


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## harned (Jun 11, 2013)

Ok I just ordered a handful of leaf samples from leafsonly.com. I got inspired from what I've seen here lol. Plus I need a summer project aside from yard work. Where did you guys get your instructions to get started? I've watched a few youtube videos. Trial and error? Thanks for the inspiration and any tips.


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## Rook83 (Apr 8, 2013)

harned said:


> Ok I just ordered a handful of leaf samples from leafsonly.com. I got inspired from what I've seen here lol. Plus I need a summer project aside from yard work. Where did you guys get your instructions to get started? I've watched a few youtube videos. Trial and error? Thanks for the inspiration and any tips.


Hey man, welcome to the club...its addicting, frustrating and fun all at the same time...I learned by videos and enhanced specific techniques by the guys on this site, specifically @Bruck and @Gdaddy...

This is one of the videos...he makes amazing videos and explains pretty well....his technique is amazing...but difficult in my opinon
Timothy Torres Hand rolling a cigar part 1, April 14, 2012 - YouTube

This is the video I made...very amateur...but smokeable and somewhat presentable...
This is how I roll a cigar - YouTube

Hope this helps...if you have any questions, let us know man...and let us know what blends you're using...


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## Bruck (Jan 8, 2013)

harned said:


> Ok I just ordered a handful of leaf samples from leafsonly.com. I got inspired from what I've seen here lol. Plus I need a summer project aside from yard work. Where did you guys get your instructions to get started? I've watched a few youtube videos. Trial and error? Thanks for the inspiration and any tips.


I had a mini-lesson in January at the Graycliff factory in the Bahamas. It was mainly the torcedora shows me how to do it, I do it, she undoes it an does it right 

Other than that, mostly youtube videos and other instructional websites plus tips from guys online as @Rook83 mentions.

So in addition to the tobacco, the minimum equipment you'll need is a cutting board and a rounded knife (chaveta) of some kind. I use a pizza knife mainly. You'll also need some kind of glue to keep the finished product together. I started out using gum arabic but switched to cellulose glue which works great.

& if you want to step up your game aesthetically, you'll want to get molds.

& one last word of advice - most of the info on cigar rolling that I've seen on the web is pretty accurate, but there's some disinformation out there - be sure to triangulate!


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## Gdaddy (Sep 20, 2012)

harned said:


> Ok I just ordered a handful of leaf samples from leafsonly.com. I got inspired from what I've seen here lol. Plus I need a summer project aside from yard work. Where did you guys get your instructions to get started? I've watched a few youtube videos. Trial and error? Thanks for the inspiration and any tips.


Great video here...If you have any questions just ask.

Rolling Habanos


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## harned (Jun 11, 2013)

Thanks for all the info. As far as a mold, I thought about trying to make one out of wood by clamping 2 pieces together and drilling out the middle then sanding it down smooth. I went with 1/4 lb selections of con broadleaf maduro, nic ligero, honduran seco, and brazil seco. Any suggestions for a blend?


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## harned (Jun 11, 2013)

Sorry. I meant hon viso and brazil viso. Not seco. Also the broadleaf is wrapper.


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## Rook83 (Apr 8, 2013)

harned said:


> Thanks for all the info. As far as a mold, I thought about trying to make one out of wood by clamping 2 pieces together and drilling out the middle then sanding it down smooth. I went with 1/4 lb selections of con broadleaf maduro, nic ligero, honduran seco, and brazil seco. Any suggestions for a blend?


I've had great luck with the nicaraguan viso...and i just ordered some nicaraguan ligero as I'm going to roll some more this weeked...I've been wanting to try that brazilian forever...just hadn't pulled the trigger yet...


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## Bruck (Jan 8, 2013)

harned said:


> Thanks for all the info. As far as a mold, I thought about trying to make one out of wood by clamping 2 pieces together and drilling out the middle then sanding it down smooth. I went with 1/4 lb selections of con broadleaf maduro, nic ligero, honduran seco, and brazil seco. Any suggestions for a blend?


With what you've got there, I'd go with CT broadleaf wrapper and binder, one leaf of ligero, one leaf of viso, and two of the seco. A leaf of cameroon in place of one of the secos would kick up the flavor.


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## Bruck (Jan 8, 2013)

@Gdaddy, @Arizonadave, @Rook83 et al: my continuing saga of what to do with cigar scraps in the pipe section of Puff:


Homemade Flake - 2nd batch

I also posted this on the fair trade forum.


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## quo155 (Aug 10, 2010)

Gdaddy said:


> Great video here...If you have any questions just ask.
> 
> Rolling Habanos


For anyone interested...this video (and it's hosting forum) is one of the best EVER made on this subject!


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## quo155 (Aug 10, 2010)

Bruck said:


> Also, in case it's not obvious, when you orient the wrapper leaf, make sure the outer edge of the leaf is up (away from you). This way, the small end of the veins will be exposed (assuming you're rolling up, i.e., away from yourself - that's the only way I've seen it done).


Smart tip! TY!



Rook83 said:


> Leaf prep and patience...thats the hardest part for me...but once its done, the leaves are soooo much easier to work with and tend to rip less...


I need to do this prep work though...I'm just not made of patience!


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## Rook83 (Apr 8, 2013)

Bruck said:


> @Gdaddy, @Arizonadave, @Rook83 et al: my continuing saga of what to do with cigar scraps in the pipe section of Puff:
> 
> 
> Homemade Flake - 2nd batch
> ...


Love it!


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## Rook83 (Apr 8, 2013)

quo155 said:


> Smart tip! TY!
> 
> I need to do this prep work though...I'm just not made of patience!


So what I do is just spritz the leaves a little with DI water and enclose it in a bag for 2 days...I don't know if there is a better method...if there is, someone let me know...but I notice that the leaves become like thin leather and stretchy...this goes for binder and wrapper leaves...the filler I spritz 2 hours before rolling...they just need to be somewhat pliable, not stretchy in my opinion...


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## Bruck (Jan 8, 2013)

Rook83 said:


> So what I do is just spritz the leaves a little with DI water and enclose it in a bag for 2 days...I don't know if there is a better method...if there is, someone let me know...but I notice that the leaves become like thin leather and stretchy...this goes for binder and wrapper leaves...the filler I spritz 2 hours before rolling...they just need to be somewhat pliable, not stretchy in my opinion...


That's about what I do, only I just moisten the binder and wrapper the night before I plan to roll. I also spritz the filler ever so slightly, and only if it needs it. It's usually at the right level from a sealed bag, but bags I've opened in the past sometimes need a little more moisture. Also, I don't return moistened leaves to the original bag (i.e., those I ended up not using) as this leads to mold.


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## Bruck (Jan 8, 2013)

quo155 said:


> Smart tip! TY!
> 
> I need to do this prep work though...I'm just not made of patience!


Just to puf a finer point on it, a video I watched that was linked on the fair trade site indicated that Cuban rollers use the outer edge of the wrapper for export cigars, and the inner part (closer to the main vein), where the subveins are more pronounced, for domestic sale cigars.


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## LegoMaximus (May 8, 2014)

i think that would be somthing cool to learn.:smoke::smoke::smoke:


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## quo155 (Aug 10, 2010)

Bruck said:


> Just to puf a finer point on it, a video I watched that was linked on the fair trade site indicated that Cuban rollers use the outer edge of the wrapper for export cigars, and the inner part (closer to the main vein), where the subveins are more pronounced, for domestic sale cigars.


That's an interesting point...and helpful!


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## Gdaddy (Sep 20, 2012)

harned said:


> Thanks for all the info. As far as a mold, I thought about trying to make one out of wood by clamping 2 pieces together and drilling out the middle then sanding it down smooth. I went with 1/4 lb selections of con broadleaf maduro, nic ligero, honduran seco, and brazil seco. Any suggestions for a blend?


PVC is dirt cheap and makes a very good mold. I cut them in half with a hack saw. This cost under two bucks.

View attachment 85884


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## harned (Jun 11, 2013)

Good thinking. What rg is that? Also, anyone roll corona size cigars? The smaller seem like they'd be harder to get a good draw.


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## Bruck (Jan 8, 2013)

quo155 said:


> That's an interesting point...and helpful!


The other thing about which part of the leaf to use, is to try to use the end closer to the tip of the leaf (vs. the stem) where the subveins are thinner.


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## Gdaddy (Sep 20, 2012)

harned said:


> Good thinking. What rg is that? Also, anyone roll corona size cigars? The smaller seem like they'd be harder to get a good draw.


You can buy pvc in several diameters. The one shown is about a 52 RG. Next size smaller is like a corona. Bring a cigar with you to Home Depot.

A good draw comes from the proper amount of tobacco. This is where feel comes in. Feel the 'bunch in your hand. Experiment and you'll get just as good a draw on a small cigar as you do a large one. Not a problem.

After only a few cigars you'll be surprised how good they are.

One important point to make.... when you roll the cigar the tobacco filler should be very dry. Just below the point of cracking or crunching. Anything more wet will compress and be a hard draw and take forever to dry out. This is how it comes in the bag. Only the wrapper should be moist and supple. That will dry out in a few days.


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## Gdaddy (Sep 20, 2012)

When you roll both binder and the wrapper it's important that the leaf veins run in the direction as shown below.


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## Bruck (Jan 8, 2013)

Gdaddy said:


> PVC is dirt cheap and makes a very good mold. I cut them in half with a hack saw. This cost under two bucks.
> 
> View attachment 85884


I had to do a double-take on your pic - that's exactly what mine look like (obviously) 

Mine are all 3/4" ID = 48 RG, but my sticks usually expand an RG or two after I release them from the restraints.


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## langos (Mar 1, 2011)

Gdaddy said:


> When you roll both binder and the wrapper it's important that the leaf veins run in the direction as shown below.


I'm not sure how discernible you'll find this or, if you've heard of it but, right binder and left wrapper or left binder and right wrapper used together?


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## Gdaddy (Sep 20, 2012)

langos said:


> I'm not sure how discernible you'll find this or, if you've heard of it but, right binder and left wrapper or left binder and right wrapper used together?


Doesn't matter. Just flip them upside down or turn them over when using binder. The wrapper goes only one direction.


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## Rook83 (Apr 8, 2013)

Whoever mentioned putting the cigars in the mold after final wrapping, thanks! These turned out quite a bit smoother than any other batch I've done thus far...even with super prominent veins...Can't wait to get some wrappers with minimal veins using this technique...then they'll be smooth as hell...next step...figuring out how to make a good looking cap...and @Gdaddy, I put ligero in this one...I'm gonna fire it up sometime next week and I'll see how it turns out!


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## Rook83 (Apr 8, 2013)

finally figured out how to attach this pic


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## Gdaddy (Sep 20, 2012)

Rook83 said:


> Whoever mentioned putting the cigars in the mold after final wrapping, thanks! These turned out quite a bit smoother than any other batch I've done thus far...even with super prominent veins...Can't wait to get some wrappers with minimal veins using this technique...then they'll be smooth as hell...next step...figuring out how to make a good looking cap...and @Gdaddy, I put ligero in this one...I'm gonna fire it up sometime next week and I'll see how it turns out!
> View attachment 49293


Twas me!

I like to give the cigars a 'final press'. Sometimes I leave them over night. You have to watch out for the ridge caused by the mold(I see it in yours). After a 10 minute press rotate the cigar 90 degrees and then don't tighten it down all the way. Just snug it up and leave over night. You'll get a feel for it. Produces the best looking sticks.

Ligero adds a lot of flavor and character. I think you'll like it! Of the two cigars I sent you the short one had a small amount of ligero and the longer one had a touch more. Neither one would be considered more than medium strength.


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## langos (Mar 1, 2011)

I think what I'm really trying to ask is, have you all used, tried, or heard of the practice of using a left side binder with a right side wrapper or, the reverse, to help keep the seam from loosening. When I heard of the practice, then used it, I found that it was the reason why my seams may not have stay tight.















BINDER.....WRAPPER


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## Gdaddy (Sep 20, 2012)

langos said:


> I think what I'm really trying to ask is, have you all used, tried, or heard of the practice of using a left side binder with a right side wrapper or, the reverse, to help keep the seam from loosening. When I heard of the practice, then used it, I found that it was the reason why my seams may not have stay tight.
> 
> View attachment 49295
> View attachment 49296
> ...


I honestly don't think that matters and would complicate the process. What's important is that the veins are running long ways on the cigar to make them less visible. Otherwise the cigar gets really lumpy and bumpy.

The only time the seams don't stay tight is when I roll the cigar too loosely. A technique I use when rolling is pulling backward on the cigar to slightly stretch and tighten the wrapper especially watching the finished outer edge.

Having said that... they are your cigars and you roll them the way you want!!


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## Bruck (Jan 8, 2013)

Hello y'all, here's my latest experiment - in my last batch I added some VA flue cured to the filler. Smoking one right now. the VA seems to add some tanginess, almost a citrus flavor. Haven't decided if I like it or not though.


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## harned (Jun 11, 2013)

When you decide let us know. I thought about adding some oriental leaf to see what happens. Figured I get myself lined out with traditional leaf first tho. Just got my leaf in the mail, so I'll prob start this week.


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## Bruck (Jan 8, 2013)

harned said:


> When you decide let us know. I thought about adding some oriental leaf to see what happens. Figured I get myself lined out with traditional leaf first tho. Just got my leaf in the mail, so I'll prob start this week.


Will do!  I have to smoke some of the exact same blend but w/o the VA flue cured to compare.

Congrats on getting the leaf - your first batch? BTW, this is a good thread for rolling hints and technique, and there's a more focused forum on the fair trade tobacco site, if you are not already there yet.


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## Bruck (Jan 8, 2013)

harned said:


> When you decide let us know. I thought about adding some oriental leaf to see what happens. Figured I get myself lined out with traditional leaf first tho. Just got my leaf in the mail, so I'll prob start this week.


Nope, don't really like the extra tanginess that the VA flue cured adds. I smoked a couple from the same batch & they're much better without.

I picked up some burley (part of my attempt to make flake tobacco); maybe that would be good. It's a little milder in flavor/aroma.


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## Bruck (Jan 8, 2013)

Latest crop of Brohibas, just finished wrapping, now they're on the drying rack for a day or so:










They're mostly filled with Dominican ligero, Brazilian viso, Colombian seco, and Cameroon seco. A few are all-Sumatra filler. Binders on all are Aleman, and wrappers are Ecuador shade, Ecuador maduro, and Cameroon. The cameroon wrappers are a dream to work with.

Didn't put a lot of effort into aesthetics this time, but am _slowly_ getting the hang of the triple-cap, which I applied to a few of them - dig the two-tone triple cap on the bottom one


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## harned (Jun 11, 2013)

Well here is my first attempt. Not terrible lol. I need to finish my mold, planning on some wood work this week. It has a con broadleaf wrap with brazil viso binder and nic ligero, honduran viso, and some brazil fillers. I tried a triple cap but covered it with another and pig tailed it for cover.


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## Rook83 (Apr 8, 2013)

Bruck said:


> Latest crop of Brohibas, just finished wrapping, now they're on the drying rack for a day or so:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You didn't have a problem with the cameroon wrappers?? I had such a tough time, that now I am using what I have for filler...I thought these leaves were so brittle and fragile, and I struggled with them...the flavor is impeccable though...


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## Rook83 (Apr 8, 2013)

harned said:


> View attachment 49397
> Well here is my first attempt. Not terrible lol. I need to finish my mold, planning on some wood work this week. It has a con broadleaf wrap with brazil viso binder and nic ligero, honduran viso, and some brazil fillers. I tried a triple cap but covered it with another and pig tailed it for cover.


Well done man...looks wayyyy better than my first attempt...


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## harned (Jun 11, 2013)

I had some medium filler so I tried a couple free hand cigarillos. I think my draw is too loose on 2 of them tho. Do you guys leave them out or dry box them until they lose their moisture? I don't want mold.


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## harned (Jun 11, 2013)

Rook83 said:


> Well done man...looks wayyyy better than my first attempt...


Thanks buddy. I used your YouTube vid lol. I caught your bunching technique after the fact tho. I'm definitely going to use your method next time. Bunching in a leaf will help gauge my filling. Live and learn right? Anyone can buy a cigar, who rolls their own lol. Besides us that is.


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## Rook83 (Apr 8, 2013)

harned said:


> Thanks buddy. I used your YouTube vid lol. I caught your bunching technique after the fact tho. I'm definitely going to use your method next time. Bunching in a leaf will help gauge my filling. Live and learn right? Anyone can buy a cigar, who rolls their own lol. Besides us that is.


Heck yah!


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## Gdaddy (Sep 20, 2012)

harned said:


> View attachment 49398
> I had some medium filler so I tried a couple free hand cigarillos. I think my draw is too loose on 2 of them tho. Do you guys leave them out or dry box them until they lose their moisture? I don't want mold.


I leave them out in my air conditioned room at 52 rh for 3 or 4 days to completely dry then place them in the humidor @63 % for at least a week before smoking.


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## quo155 (Aug 10, 2010)

@Bruck - looking good as always, great group of smokes!
@harned - hey, that's not bad at all for your first few smokes! They look great, now to see how they smoke for you!


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## Bruck (Jan 8, 2013)

harned said:


> View attachment 49397
> Well here is my first attempt. Not terrible lol. I need to finish my mold, planning on some wood work this week. It has a con broadleaf wrap with brazil viso binder and nic ligero, honduran viso, and some brazil fillers. I tried a triple cap but covered it with another and pig tailed it for cover.


Know what that looks like? A real cigar!!! Congratulations and welcome to the club  Being able to RYO is very liberating.


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## Bruck (Jan 8, 2013)

Rook83 said:


> You didn't have a problem with the cameroon wrappers?? I had such a tough time, that now I am using what I have for filler...I thought these leaves were so brittle and fragile, and I struggled with them...the flavor is impeccable though...


My cameroon wrappers work great! They don't have to be completely damp, and the go on like gift wrapping paper. Mine aren't fragile at all. I think I got them at leafonly. I use the 14" ones which are a bit small for anything bigger than robustos; will probably get a bag of 16" ones next time.


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## Bruck (Jan 8, 2013)

quo155 said:


> @Bruck - looking good as always, great group of smokes!
> @harned - hey, that's not bad at all for your first few smokes! They look great, now to see how they smoke for you!


Tnx, you're too kind!


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## Bruck (Jan 8, 2013)

harned said:


> View attachment 49398
> I had some medium filler so I tried a couple free hand cigarillos. I think my draw is too loose on 2 of them tho. Do you guys leave them out or dry box them until they lose their moisture? I don't want mold.


I let mine sit on the drying rack for about a day in the fairly arid basement, then let them acclimate in my 65% RH tupperdor for at least a couple weeks before I smoke them. It was a test of patience to wait that long when I first started a few months ago, but now I have a rolling backlog. Just looking at my notes, I've made 119 cigars since February, and consumed 94, but probably half of those were gifted/traded.


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## harned (Jun 11, 2013)

Thanks for the kind words guys. Its hard to just watch them drying without knowing about how the draw or burn will end up. I think the cigarillos may actually turn out fine now that they are drying. I'll just have to wait and see. Damn.


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## Bruck (Jan 8, 2013)

harned said:


> Thanks for the kind words guys. Its hard to just watch them drying without knowing about how the draw or burn will end up. I think the cigarillos may actually turn out fine now that they are drying. I'll just have to wait and see. Damn.


You can test the draw before capping (if you don't pigtail them right off the bat). Draw usually doesn't change much with drying.


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## harned (Jun 11, 2013)

Thats good to know. I be ok then. Man this hobby is addicting, I just keep thinking about blends, technique ... Has the newness worn off yet for you guys?


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## Gdaddy (Sep 20, 2012)

harned said:


> Thats good to know. I be ok then. Man this hobby is addicting, I just keep thinking about blends, technique ... Has the newness worn off yet for you guys?


No! It is addicting and it gets worse. I'm starting to understand the blending a little better now so I roll fewer cigars but put more thought into the process. Like Bruce says, it's nice to have a rolling backlog that are ready to smoke.

Remember, if for any reason you aren't happy with the results of the finished cigar cut off the wrapper and re-roll it. Don't waste the cigar because of a flaw. Fix it.


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## Bruck (Jan 8, 2013)

harned said:


> Thats good to know. I be ok then. Man this hobby is addicting, I just keep thinking about blends, technique ... Has the newness worn off yet for you guys?


The newness wears off, and that's a good thing - corresponds to figuring out what you're doing and developing good technique. But the thrill isn't gone. I keep wanting to settle into a few good blends that I can go into "production mode" on, but I just keep buying and trying different leaves and blends. Not sure when that's going to end - probably when I've got the entire inventory ranges of leafonly and wholeleaf in my tobacco library 

Meanwhile, I think we picked a good time to start rolling our own - if the FDA has its way, we'll be the only ones who can afford decent cigars!


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## harned (Jun 11, 2013)

Here's try no 2. Getting better at bunching. I may try to do more at a time. Btw I screw on up each time and end up with a pyramid lol.


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## Gdaddy (Sep 20, 2012)

harned said:


> View attachment 49412
> 
> Here's try no 2. Getting better at bunching. I may try to do more at a time. Btw I screw on up each time and end up with a pyramid lol.


Nice sticks! They just get better and better. Addicting.


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## quo155 (Aug 10, 2010)

harned said:


> View attachment 49412
> 
> Here's try no 2. Getting better at bunching. I may try to do more at a time. Btw I screw on up each time and end up with a pyramid lol.


Very nice Curtis...great job IMO!

I actually love the pyramid!

Can't wait to see just how well you like them once you've smoked 'em! I'll bet that they're awesome!


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## Lunicy (Apr 20, 2014)

I cant roll any. I try and try. They come out really spongy. Limp.
I tried adding more and more leaf. re-rolling and re-rolling. Tried compacting so tight it wont draw. still limp.


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## Bruck (Jan 8, 2013)

harned said:


> View attachment 49412
> 
> Here's try no 2. Getting better at bunching. I may try to do more at a time. Btw I screw on up each time and end up with a pyramid lol.


Not too shabby


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## quo155 (Aug 10, 2010)

Lunicy said:


> I cant roll any. I try and try. They come out really spongy. Limp.
> I tried adding more and more leaf. re-rolling and re-rolling. Tried compacting so tight it wont draw. still limp.


Hey Dave...don't give up!

Visit this thread (and forum): Rolling Cigars

As well as all of the great info here on Puff AND in this thread......you can find many tips.

I failed, over and over at first too...but I'm still trying!


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## Rook83 (Apr 8, 2013)

Lunicy said:


> I cant roll any. I try and try. They come out really spongy. Limp.
> I tried adding more and more leaf. re-rolling and re-rolling. Tried compacting so tight it wont draw. still limp.


I think the limp sponginess can be attributed to how wet the filler leaves are when rolling...Filler leaves should almost, but not crack when bunching...binder and wrapper leaf should also not be too wet...but more wet than filler...they should have an elastic stretchy feel to it...if they are too damp, just keep them in the plastic bag longer so the moisture evens out...


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## Bruck (Jan 8, 2013)

Lunicy said:


> I cant roll any. I try and try. They come out really spongy. Limp.
> I tried adding more and more leaf. re-rolling and re-rolling. Tried compacting so tight it wont draw. still limp.


It sounds like you might be over-hydrating. What I do is give the filler leaves a slight spritz of DW if they're not pliable enough right out of the bag (sometimes the fillers don't require any rehydrating at all), dampen but not saturate the binder leaves, and wet down the wrappers pretty well (again, not saturated, just enough to be pliable and somewhat stretchy). Then I let them sit for a few hours that way in plastic grocery bags, usually overnight.

You might be bunching them wrong - are you doing it "entubado"? That entails basically rolling each leaf individually when assembling the filler wad.

+ there are a lot of good rolling videos on youtube if you haven't seen them.

Keep trying! You'll get the hand of it  Good luck!


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## harned (Jun 11, 2013)

Mine feel spongy too, but my filler was so dry it broke up. I'm also sure my wrappers were too wet after reading the previous posts. I'll be trying until these damn things are rolled good and solid. And thanks for the compliments. 
The pyramid shapes feel more solid than the coronas. After the binder I wrapped them tightly in paper instead of a mold. ? Maybe that's the way I should stick with lol


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## Bruck (Jan 8, 2013)

Good Evening, y'all,
I just got a pound of Criollo ligero in from Whole Leaf. Any ideas on what I should blend it with? I've never used Criollo before.


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## Bruck (Jan 8, 2013)

Rolled some sticks with the new Criollo ligero as part of the blend, & all cameroon wrappers:










I was in kind of a hurry so I didn't put the usual amount of effort into the wrapping. Mainly interested in how the new criollo tastes. I'll let them humidorify for a couple weeks & give them a try.


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## langos (Mar 1, 2011)

They seem nice and fat.


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## Gdaddy (Sep 20, 2012)

Looking good. I'd be curious as to your opinion of the Criollo.


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## harned (Jun 11, 2013)

Same here. Let us know what the criollo adds. It may be in my next purchase lol. I would wrap it with something maduro for a sweetness to counter the spice and earthy notes. Just my op tho. I'm a sucker for a maddie.


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## Bruck (Jan 8, 2013)

langos said:


> They seem nice and fat.


Built for comfort, not speed 

I use 48 and 52 RG molds. They probably look fat bcs a few of them ended up pretty short, which was due to having some small wrapper leaves.


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## langos (Mar 1, 2011)

Bruck said:


> Built for comfort, not speed
> 
> I use 48 and 52 RG molds. They probably look fat bcs a few of them ended up pretty short, which was due to having some small wrapper leaves.


That sounds right :fu

I was thinking something like 52 to 56.... though the one on the left doze look like a Nub. Maybe the lens is a little wide I'd guess?:???:


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## Bruck (Jan 8, 2013)

langos said:


> That sounds right :fu
> 
> I was thinking something like 52 to 56.... though the one on the left doze look like a Nub. Maybe the lens is a little wide I'd guess?:???:


No, it really is as short as it looks  I used Cameroon wrappers, and they're pretty small, so I cut off the part that didn't get wrapped.


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## Rook83 (Apr 8, 2013)

Hey guys, the mold I bought was from leafonly...I looked at another mold that had a smaller part on the top half of the mold...the top part would compress into the larger "C" bottom half of the mold...my mold is an exact half, which causes the wings when molding...anyone have any input on this?


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## Gdaddy (Sep 20, 2012)

Rook83 said:


> Hey guys, the mold I bought was from leafonly...I looked at another mold that had a smaller part on the top half of the mold...the top part would compress into the larger "C" bottom half of the mold...my mold is an exact half, which causes the wings when molding...anyone have any input on this?


The one they sell on leafonly is not a design used in the cigar industry. The 'male' top part is supposed to compress the cigar into the 'female' bottom sort of like a 'hug'.

Here's the one I use. Since I don't do mass production a couple of these molds work perfectly for me and don't require an elaborate press mechanism. Many times I'll do just one cigar and this is easy to use and not so cumbersome.


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## Gdaddy (Sep 20, 2012)

Simple clamp system. Fits several molds easily or just one at a time.


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## Rook83 (Apr 8, 2013)

Gdaddy said:


> The one they sell on leafonly is not a design used in the cigar industry. The 'male' top part is supposed to compress the cigar into the 'female' bottom sort of like a 'hug'.
> 
> Here's the one I use. Since I don't do mass production a couple of these molds work perfectly for me and don't require an elaborate press mechanism. Many times I'll do just one cigar and this is easy to use and not so cumbersome.
> 
> View attachment 49552


hmmm...wondering if I should sell mine on ebay and also purchase a regular mold...just for aesthetic purposes...not necessarily functionality...I guess I never noticed that the halves were not even in a true mold...I probably wouldn't have shelled out the $50 if I knew that...


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## Bruck (Jan 8, 2013)

Rook83 said:


> hmmm...wondering if I should sell mine on ebay and also purchase a regular mold...just for aesthetic purposes...not necessarily functionality...I guess I never noticed that the halves were not even in a true mold...I probably wouldn't have shelled out the $50 if I knew that...


All depends what you're after. If you're trying to make really professional cigars, then ditch the circular molds and go for the conventional ones. I do abt half and half. I have 5 of the singles that @Gdaddy shows, and a plethora of the PVC molds which are effectively the same as the leafonly molds, but without the rounded ends.

You might be able to get decently round sticks, i.e., no wings, in the circular mold - try using it without overstuffing the cigars, and then open the mold up after about 30 min to an hour, and rotate the sticks 90 degrees (if you're not already doing this).


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## harned (Jun 11, 2013)

I made one like the leafonly mold and get some minor creases also. They usually wrap over ok without showing much. Maybe when, or if, mine get better I'll worry about them lol. Btw, I tried the aged nic ligero leaf as a wrapper and wow, they look rugged. Anyone else try them as a wrap?


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## Gdaddy (Sep 20, 2012)

harned said:


> I made one like the leafonly mold and get some minor creases also. They usually wrap over ok without showing much. Maybe when, or if, mine get better I'll worry about them lol. Btw, I tried the aged nic ligero leaf as a wrapper and wow, they look rugged. Anyone else try them as a wrap?


I was wondering about putting ligero as a wrapper. Have you smoked one? taste? Was fearful it would be too strong. I'd really like some lanceros in a rough wrap. Please let us know how it goes.


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## Bruck (Jan 8, 2013)

Had one of @Gdaddy 's RYOs today.

Review here:
http://www.cigarforums.net/forums/vb/non-habanos-reviews/335753-lago-maria-puffer-ryo.html


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## Bruck (Jan 8, 2013)

Hey, this thread has been kind of dead lately!

Here's my latest batch, just finished wrapping them:










They're mostly filled with Colombian seco, Brazilian Viso, and Criollo ligero; a few have a leaf or two of Cameroon seco, and one has a leaf of Sumatra (the little pale one). One has a little Aleman in the filler as I had some extra binder. All are bound with Aleman. The darker wrappers are Cameroon, and the lighter ones Ecuador Shade.


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## Rook83 (Apr 8, 2013)

Bruck said:


> Hey, this thread has been kind of dead lately!
> 
> Here's my latest batch, just finished wrapping them:
> 
> ...


Looks great! And I've smoked yours, so I know they'll be great!


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## Bruck (Jan 8, 2013)

Tnx! On a couple of these I struggled with wrapper length. I was using some small Cameroon leaves and kept running out of wrapper before I ran out of cigar!


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## ukfan83 (May 20, 2010)

I have read through this thread a few times and watched some videos and maybe you all could answer a question I have. If your using long filler that runs the entire length of the cigar what would make it have different pronounced flavors in each third? Is it the different amounts of heat on the tobacco or would you have to add different amounts of each to each third?


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## Gdaddy (Sep 20, 2012)

ukfan83 said:


> I have read through this thread a few times and watched some videos and maybe you all could answer a question I have. If your using long filler that runs the entire length of the cigar what would make it have different pronounced flavors in each third? Is it the different amounts of heat on the tobacco or would you have to add different amounts of each to each third?


My opinion would be that smoke that's drawn through the cigar has an influence on the remaining tobacco by leaving behind resin deposits of varying nicotine levels. As the cigar burns down the flavors could change a little, a lot or not at all and not always for the better depending on the variables in the tobacco. If it's green tobacco and high nicotine the cigar could start off good and then become unbearable. Moisture level of the tobacco will also have an effect.


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## ukfan83 (May 20, 2010)

Gdaddy said:


> My opinion would be that smoke that's drawn through the cigar has an influence on the remaining tobacco by leaving behind resin deposits of varying nicotine levels. As the cigar burns down the flavors could change a little, a lot or not at all and not always for the better depending on the variables in the tobacco. If it's green tobacco and high nicotine the cigar could start off good and then become unbearable. Moisture level of the tobacco will also have an effect.


Sounds good to me. I was watching the video posted at the beginning and that got me curious. The smoke going through the tobacco makes sense though.


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## ukfan83 (May 20, 2010)

So did anyone start rolling their own by buying the 1/4 lb samplers instead of the full lb? I was thinking of pull I g the trigger on a few 1/4 lb to try my hand at this.


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## Bruck (Jan 8, 2013)

ukfan83 said:


> So did anyone start rolling their own by buying the 1/4 lb samplers instead of the full lb? I was thinking of pull I g the trigger on a few 1/4 lb to try my hand at this.


I started with a cigar rolling sampler on leafonly dot com. I got the medium one. Good blend, and not too pricey. You can get all your beginner's mistakes out of the way, then expand to different blends.

Beware! It's addictive!

I've been at it for just over 5 months and have rolled 138 cigars so far 

There are some good amateur blenders on this thread, including our friend @Gdaddy, who can provide good ideas and advice on what to buy, plus how to cheap out on supplies and equipment (which can be pretty minimal).


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## ukfan83 (May 20, 2010)

I know some of you use a mold and some don't. Anyone use PVC pipe cut in half with clamps? How does that work for you. I would like to use a mold but would not like to pay the price at leafonly just quite yet.


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## Gdaddy (Sep 20, 2012)

ukfan83 said:


> I know some of you use a mold and some don't. Anyone use PVC pipe cut in half with clamps? How does that work for you. I would like to use a mold but would not like to pay the price at leafonly just quite yet.


My advice would be NOT to buy the mold on the leafonly site. It's not made correctly. It needs to have a male / female design where there is a lip that slides down in the mold and actually 'hugs' the cigar properly.

Look at this design closely and you'll see the lip that runs the perimeter of the lid and fits down in the mold compressing the tobacco. The Leafonly mold just squeezes it together.

If you buy a mold this is a feature you what to look for. Otherwise just stay with the PVC.


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## ukfan83 (May 20, 2010)

Gdaddy said:


> My advice would be NOT to buy the mold on the leafonly site. It's not made correctly. It needs to have a male / female design where there is a lip that slides down in the mold and actually 'hugs' the cigar properly.
> 
> Look at this design closely and you'll see the lip that runs the perimeter of the lid and fits down in the mold compressing the tobacco. The Leafonly mold just squeezes it together.
> 
> ...


Probably going to stick with PVC for a bit. But where can I find a mold like that. I've been searching the net all day and can't find anything similar to it.


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## Bruck (Jan 8, 2013)

I have a few of the ones that @Gdaddy showed. I also have a number of homebrew PVC ones:



















These will produce nice cylindrical sticks for little cost but don't make a round end for putting on a cap. & they tend to leave ridges on the sides.


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## Gdaddy (Sep 20, 2012)

ukfan83 said:


> Probably going to stick with PVC for a bit. But where can I find a mold like that. I've been searching the net all day and can't find anything similar to it.


I have a private guy that had some of these for I think $22 ea. If you want hit me with a PM and I'll give you his email


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## ukfan83 (May 20, 2010)

Gdaddy said:


> I have a private guy that had some of these for I think $22 ea. If you want hit me with a PM and I'll give you his email


Thanks. I will probably take you up on that after I get one test batch with some PVC. I'll be placing my order about a week from Monday for the leaf since I'll be out of town until then. Don't want it sitting on the front porch unattended. Gonna be a long week.


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## harned (Jun 11, 2013)

ukfan83 said:


> So did anyone start rolling their own by buying the 1/4 lb samplers instead of the full lb? I was thinking of pull I g the trigger on a few 1/4 lb to try my hand at this.


I just found what wrap, binder, and 2 fillers I wanted and ordered a 1/4 lb of each. Worked out fine. I actually ended up with a handful of wrappers left so I rolled some med fillers last night.


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## Gdaddy (Sep 20, 2012)

harned said:


> I just found what wrap, binder, and 2 fillers I wanted and ordered a 1/4 lb of each. Worked out fine. I actually ended up with a handful of wrappers left so I rolled some med fillers last night.


What tobacco blend are you using? How are the cigars?


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## harned (Jun 11, 2013)

Gdaddy said:


> What tobacco blend are you using? How are the cigars?


Well I haven't burned one yet. Figured maybe a rest would be good. I have nic ligero and honduran viso for fillers, brazil viso binder, and conni broadleaf wrapper. The hond leaf was really dry and small and the brazil leaf had several that couldn't be used as binder, but the broadleaf and nic ligero were in great shape and were easy to work with.


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## Gdaddy (Sep 20, 2012)

harned said:


> Well I haven't burned one yet. Figured maybe a rest would be good. I have nic ligero and honduran viso for fillers, brazil viso binder, and conni broadleaf wrapper. The hond leaf was really dry and small and the brazil leaf had several that couldn't be used as binder, but the broadleaf and nic ligero were in great shape and were easy to work with.


The filler leaf wants to be dry. Just below the point of cracking when it's rolled.

I bet that cigar is going to be surprisingly good. The ligero has lots of flavor and is an important element in the cigar for balance. Let us know how it is.


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## harned (Jun 11, 2013)

Will do. The hond leaf was dry to the point of cracking and falling apart when bunching. I finally figured out that I needed to spritz it a bit the day before.


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## Gdaddy (Sep 20, 2012)

harned said:


> Will do. The hond leaf was dry to the point of cracking and falling apart when bunching. I finally figured out that I needed to spritz it a bit the day before.


I like to spray a mist of water inside on the upper surface of the plastic bag. This raises the RH in the bag and leave it for a day or two is all it needs.


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## Gdaddy (Sep 20, 2012)

harned said:


> Will do. The hond leaf was dry to the point of cracking and falling apart when bunching. I finally figured out that I needed to spritz it a bit the day before.


What did you use for cigar glue?


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## ukfan83 (May 20, 2010)

So I have another question. In the video posted earlier she said to use three different types of tobacco. Volado for combustion, seco for aroma and flavor, and fuerte (ligero / viso) for strength. I'm sure this is just a suggestion and it seems that most here are using two types? What would be the benefit of using three compared to two like I have read most which seem to taste and burn well ? Or am I just overcomplicating things?


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## Rook83 (Apr 8, 2013)

ukfan83 said:


> So I have another question. In the video posted earlier she said to use three different types of tobacco. Volado for combustion, seco for aroma and flavor, and fuerte (ligero / viso) for strength. I'm sure this is just a suggestion and it seems that most here are using two types? What would be the benefit of using three compared to two like I have read most which seem to taste and burn well ? Or am I just overcomplicating things?


I'm not sure...I typically just use viso for filler...I don't like strong cigars that much...I recently put 1 leaf of ligero per cigar and I didn't like it as much...It was Nicaraguan ligero, so I'm not sure the difference in strength compared to Dominican...I will say this, the cigars I put ligero in had way better burn properties than mine with just viso...I'm sure the others with more knowledge will chime in...they seem to have a great hang on these things...


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## harned (Jun 11, 2013)

Gdaddy said:


> What did you use for cigar glue?


I used the Leaf Only pectin. I may try to find a better alternative if I keep rolling. How about you?


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## harned (Jun 11, 2013)

The leaf placement on the plant affects the thickness of the leaf; hence, the burn properties. The ligero burns slower since its the thickest leaf. If you use it, place it in the middle of your bunch and surround it with faster burning varieties. Its better to cone than tunnel. 

I just smoked one of my first rolled cigars on a trout fishing trip. Again I used conn. Broadleaf wrap, brazillian viso binder, and honduran viso and nic ligero fillers (about 50 50). The burn and draw weren't bad, the ligero makes it burn slow. It was strong, but had a good taste. I'll do a better review, as my taste buds are a bit screwed up right now, plus it was evening after drinking all day fishing lol.


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## Gdaddy (Sep 20, 2012)

harned said:


> I used the Leaf Only pectin. I may try to find a better alternative if I keep rolling. How about you?


I've used several. Currently I like Xanthan gum available at Walmart in the flour isle. I found the Pectin to be extremely bitter. Biggest mistake I made when starting to roll. Stick your finger in the jar and taste it. No manufacturers use pectin either so that should be an indication.


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## Gdaddy (Sep 20, 2012)

harned said:


> The leaf placement on the plant affects the thickness of the leaf; hence, the burn properties. The ligero burns slower since its the thickest leaf. If you use it, place it in the middle of your bunch and surround it with faster burning varieties. Its better to cone than tunnel.
> 
> I just smoked one of my first rolled cigars on a trout fishing trip. Again I used conn. Broadleaf wrap, brazillian viso binder, and honduran viso and nic ligero fillers (about 50 50). The burn and draw weren't bad, the ligero makes it burn slow. It was strong, but had a good taste. I'll do a better review, as my taste buds are a bit screwed up right now, plus it was evening after drinking all day fishing lol.


I did a video on this subject posted below. The blend you describe is all heavy leaf and all full flavored. All the powerful flavors will be fighting each other for the lead. A blend using some lighter easy burning leaf can really help subtle flavors come out instead of being drowned out.

In the video the ligero I'm using is Aleman and it's thick and difficult to roll so I sandwich it between easy burning Piloto leaves with just touch of viso. That cigar should burn razor sharp.

Pay close attention to the leaf direction when rolling. It can take a good cigar and make it a great cigar.


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## Gdaddy (Sep 20, 2012)

This video shows the vein direction as well. Easy entubado method.


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## Clark82 (Jul 16, 2014)

This is great, I've been pondering on if I wanted to try it and now there's a very inexpensive way to do it. Thank you so much.


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## Gdaddy (Sep 20, 2012)

Clark82 said:


> This is great, I've been pondering on if I wanted to try it and now there's a very inexpensive way to do it. Thank you so much.


See if you can roll the paper towels as shown. Roll it and re-roll it over and over. Once it's feels real easy to do your ready to roll a cigar. You can get started for very little money. Let me know if you need help.


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## harned (Jun 11, 2013)

Nice vid gdaddy. Do you double up on your binder all the time? I usually treat it about like my wrapper. When I order again I'm going to get some seco to mellow it out a bit. Half ligero makes a hell of a wallup lol


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## Gdaddy (Sep 20, 2012)

harned said:


> Nice vid gdaddy. Do you double up on your binder all the time? I usually treat it about like my wrapper. When I order again I'm going to get some seco to mellow it out a bit. Half ligero makes a hell of a wallup lol


That's a 52 ring toro size cigar. In order to roll it tight enough it will require two binder leaves or they'll tear. Most video's you'll see the rollers use two leaves. Somewhat normal.

That ligero is called Aleman from Whole leaf Tobacco. It's aged 9 years. As it ages it loses nicotine but increases flavor. One of the advantages to aging.

The most important part of that video is too realize that the leaf is better and more flavorful closer to the tip. After the cigar is rolled it will have the 'good stuff' up toward the foot and the lessor tobacco in the head that gets thrown away. Takes a good cigar and makes it a great cigar.


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## Clark82 (Jul 16, 2014)

Gdaddy said:


> See if you can roll the paper towels as shown. Roll it and re-roll it over and over. Once it's feels real easy to do your ready to roll a cigar. You can get started for very little money. Let me know if you need help.


Oh I plan on going thru all of the wife's paper towels and getting it down pat before I place an order. Thanks again and I look forward to this new adventure.


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## Bubb (May 28, 2014)

Great video, where did you get the molds?


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## Gdaddy (Sep 20, 2012)

Bubb said:


> Great video, where did you get the molds?


I have a guy who sells them from home. When your ready send me a PM I'll give it to you.

These are good also... Professional Cigar Molds


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## Rook83 (Apr 8, 2013)

Hey @Bruck, how is that Brazilian viso? I was thinking of using it to wrap some Honduran and Nicaraguan filler...kind of like the CAO VR...was it easy to work with? Did you wrap any with it?


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## Rook83 (Apr 8, 2013)

Gdaddy said:


> My advice would be NOT to buy the mold on the leafonly site. It's not made correctly. It needs to have a male / female design where there is a lip that slides down in the mold and actually 'hugs' the cigar properly.
> 
> Look at this design closely and you'll see the lip that runs the perimeter of the lid and fits down in the mold compressing the tobacco. The Leafonly mold just squeezes it together.
> 
> ...


I second this, as I bought the one from leafonly...It is functional, but not great...I'll be selling mine on ebay and will by the one from wholeleaf...


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## Gdaddy (Sep 20, 2012)

Rook83 said:


> Hey @Bruck, how is that Brazilian viso? I was thinking of using it to wrap some Honduran and Nicaraguan filler...kind of like the CAO VR...was it easy to work with? Did you wrap any with it?


Bruce has some VERY good blends he's doing. Not sure if it's top secret but you need to pick his brain.


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## MattyVan (Jun 11, 2013)

Hello all,

I did not read this entire thread, just the first 6 pages.... Awesome job, I have a feeling I will try to learn to roll at some point in my life, maybe after I retire.... in 30 years.

I would be willing to do a trade of some store bought sticks for some of your home rolled. PM me if your interested.


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## Bruck (Jan 8, 2013)

Rook83 said:


> Hey @Bruck , how is that Brazilian viso? I was thinking of using it to wrap some Honduran and Nicaraguan filler...kind of like the CAO VR...was it easy to work with? Did you wrap any with it?


It's got a good flavor. I think it would be better for filler than binder or wrapper - pretty rough and wild, with lots of imperfections. I've only used it for filler.


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## Rook83 (Apr 8, 2013)

Bruck said:


> It's got a good flavor. I think it would be better for filler than binder or wrapper - pretty rough and wild, with lots of imperfections. I've only used it for filler.


Thanks for the input...I'll browse the internet for brazilian wrapper leaf...hopefully I can buy some at a decent price...


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## Clark82 (Jul 16, 2014)

Picked up a roll of paper towels last night. Anyone have any measurements on leaves?


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## Gdaddy (Sep 20, 2012)

Clark82 said:


> Picked up a roll of paper towels last night. Anyone have any measurements on leaves?


The paper towels are 11" long and each of the leaves is around 4" wide at the widest part.


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## Bruck (Jan 8, 2013)

Clark82 said:


> Picked up a roll of paper towels last night. Anyone have any measurements on leaves?


Looking forward to a review of the paper towel perfecto


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## Rook83 (Apr 8, 2013)

Gdaddy said:


> I did a video on this subject posted below. The blend you describe is all heavy leaf and all full flavored. All the powerful flavors will be fighting each other for the lead. A blend using some lighter easy burning leaf can really help subtle flavors come out instead of being drowned out.
> 
> In the video the ligero I'm using is Aleman and it's thick and difficult to roll so I sandwich it between easy burning Piloto leaves with just touch of viso. That cigar should burn razor sharp.
> 
> Pay close attention to the leaf direction when rolling. It can take a good cigar and make it a great cigar.


Excellent vid man! Finally sat down to watch it...Can't wait to get back to rolling...I like your method of bunching the filler...never seen that before...


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## harned (Jun 11, 2013)

Bruck said:


> It's got a good flavor. I think it would be better for filler than binder or wrapper - pretty rough and wild, with lots of imperfections. I've only used it for filler.


Agree. I used it for binder last time and it was pretty ugly.


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## harned (Jun 11, 2013)

Ok I wasn't sure if I wanted to keep rolling, but ended up with another leaf order. Since I order the 1/4 lb sample size, I bought a few different leafs. Here we go. Wrapper: Penn oscuro and cameroon. Binder: columbian. Filler: honduran seco, Indonesian sumatra seco, Dominican ligero, and nic viso. The sumatra leaf looks good and I'm thinking I may find some wrapper grade leafs in it. So I have lots of options for blends. So, what about suggestions?


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## Gdaddy (Sep 20, 2012)

harned said:


> Ok I wasn't sure if I wanted to keep rolling, but ended up with another leaf order. Since I order the 1/4 lb sample size, I bought a few different leafs. Here we go. Wrapper: Penn oscuro and cameroon. Binder: columbian. Filler: honduran seco, Indonesian sumatra seco, Dominican ligero, and nic viso. The sumatra leaf looks good and I'm thinking I may find some wrapper grade leafs in it. So I have lots of options for blends. So, what about suggestions?


The PA Oscuor is a great maduro wrapper at an excellent price point. The Cameroon is also excellent.

A good blend should consist of three components... Volado for combustion, Seco for flavor and aroma, and ligero for strength. A mistake I made was using too many powerful tobaccos. They were all fighting for the lead and the cigar ended up too strong flavored. They drowned each other out and didn't get any fine nuances of the smoke.

So, I backed it down and began mixing lighter tobacco with a touch of the stronger. Big improvement. So, the lightest tobacco in what you have selected is the Honduran seco and the Sumatra. Try rolling just two cigars, a simple blend of Honduran seco binder (as shown in the second video) with Honduran seco filler and half a leaf of Dominican ligero, wrapped in Pa Oscuro and the other in Cameroon.. Don't add anything else. Let it dry properly before smoking.

Then you could try the same cigar blend but this time try it using Colombian binder. That will kick it up a notch. Or... using the same foundation blend add a small amount of Nic viso which is very strong flavored, so start with a small amount and work up from there.

Using the Columbian binder with Nic viso and Dominican ligero will produce a very strong flavored cigar. Try one and see if you like it. You need to find what's good for you but I would start as mild as possible and work up from there.

Let me know how you make out!

Here's a wrapper video I just finished you may want to watch...


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## Clark82 (Jul 16, 2014)

Here is a couple of pics of my first attempt at rolling my own paper towel cigar. I've included a pic of the inside from the foot. Please critique with extreme prejudice. Thank you guys.


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## harned (Jun 11, 2013)

Not bad. Now see how it smokes lol.  @Gdaddy, I have seen a vid of a cuban lady doing a triple cap. Her second cap was smaller and tear drop shaped tho. So that is how I've done a few. Honestly tho, my 2nd cap I've been pigtailing. Just being lazy, and I like the way it looks.


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## Gdaddy (Sep 20, 2012)

Clark82 said:


> View attachment 49991
> View attachment 49992
> 
> 
> Here is a couple of pics of my first attempt at rolling my own paper towel cigar. I've included a pic of the inside from the foot. Please critique with extreme prejudice. Thank you guys.


That looks better than mine ! How did you get the rounded end without a mold?

You'd do the same exact thing and then stuff it in a mold. It would come out perfect. The only thing that you need to learn would be the amount of tobacco so it's not too tight or loose. You'll get the feel for that by your third cigar. If one of your first cigars come out too tight or too loose then cut it open and re-roll it correctly. Don't settle for imperfection.


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## Gdaddy (Sep 20, 2012)

harned said:


> Not bad. Now see how it smokes lol.
> @Gdaddy, I have seen a vid of a cuban lady doing a triple cap. Her second cap was smaller and tear drop shaped tho. So that is how I've done a few. Honestly tho, my 2nd cap I've been pigtailing. Just being lazy, and I like the way it looks.


That is a great video. I don't really see the purpose of the tear drop shape. As long as that bottom edge is rounded I don't worry about the shape of the top half. After all, it gets twisted into a pig tail and then she cut it off. So what's the purpose? Mine ends up the same as hers and is more simple to understand.

I like pig tails. Nothing wrong with that. Liga Privada pig tail look great but if you look closely they still run the second cap around the cigar and twist that into the pig tail. This way the cigar is 'taped' so it can't unravel.

Sounds like you're turning out some pretty good cigars.

Honestly, now that you've done it...was it that hard to do?


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## Clark82 (Jul 16, 2014)

Gdaddy said:


> That looks better than mine ! How did you get the rounded end without a mold?
> 
> You'd do the same exact thing and then stuff it in a mold. It would come out perfect. The only thing that you need to learn would be the amount of tobacco so it's not too tight or loose. You'll get the feel for that by your third cigar. If one of your first cigars come out too tight or too loose then cut it open and re-roll it correctly. Don't settle for imperfection.


I got the rounded edge by pigtailing the end it and twisting then cut, I'm surprised that it held shape. I'm pretty proud of it. I can't wait to get my hands on some leaf. (gotta wait till payday)


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## Gdaddy (Sep 20, 2012)

Clark82 said:


> I got the rounded edge by pigtailing the end it and twisting then cut, I'm surprised that it held shape. I'm pretty proud of it. I can't wait to get my hands on some leaf. (gotta wait till payday)


You now see how the cigar roll goes up and naturally makes a pig tail. No need to do anything but twist the leaf. The wrapper does the same exact thing. Then finish with a simple triple cap and it will blow your mind.


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## Clark82 (Jul 16, 2014)

Gdaddy said:


> You now see how the cigar roll goes up and naturally makes a pig tail. No need to do anything but twist the leaf. The wrapper does the same exact thing. Then finish with a simple triple cap and it will blow your mind.


I have taken everything you are telling me and let it sink in until I get me some leaf, I do have a question about where you get the plastic molds that you used in the video? Any advice would be greatly appreciated..


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## Gdaddy (Sep 20, 2012)

Clark82 said:


> I have taken everything you are telling me and let it sink in until I get me some leaf, I do have a question about where you get the plastic molds that you used in the video? Any advice would be greatly appreciated..


Sent you a Pm on where to get them.

You can also get reasonably priced starter kits here that are put together by blenders that take the guess work out and give you good cigars. This is where many beginners go wrong is just buying tobacco Willy Nilly. These kits are a good deal.

Whole Leaf Cigar Blends

Let me know if you need help.


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## Clark82 (Jul 16, 2014)

Thank you so much.


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## DrBob (Mar 26, 2014)

A friend and I just went in for two of the blend packs from whole leaf and plan on giving it a go. I did roll some paper towel cigars last night, and damned if by the second one it didn't feel and look like a cigar! Looking forward to posting a few pics in the next couple of weeks as I get going.


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## Gdaddy (Sep 20, 2012)

DrBob said:


> A friend and I just went in for two of the blend packs from whole leaf and plan on giving it a go. I did roll some paper towel cigars last night, and damned if by the second one it didn't feel and look like a cigar! Looking forward to posting a few pics in the next couple of weeks as I get going.


Congratulations Bob! The fun is about to begin.

While you're waiting for your order to come in keep practicing with the paper towels. So it's easy for you. Watch the video #2 and understand the sequence.

One other bit of advice... DON'T use Pectin as glue. It will give your cigars a crappy bitter taste.THE WORST ADVICE I got when I started rolling was pectin. Instead, get some Xanthan gum at Walmart in the flour isle. MUCH better choice. I like cellulose glue the best. Flavorless.

Good luck!!


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## Bruck (Jan 8, 2013)

Check it out, y'all:










Scored an antique perfecto mold last weekend - I was telling my aunt about rolling my own cigars and she said come on over and I'll give you an antique cigar mold, so I did  She's a real antique hound so I have to wonder what other treasures are lurking in her basement.

Anyway, it's got 20 slots for 4" perfectos; I haven't measured the RG yet. Going to try out out tomorrow (have the day off, what better way to spend it).


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## Gdaddy (Sep 20, 2012)

Bruck said:


> Check it out, y'all:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Can't wait to see some photos of these little beauties!


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## langos (Mar 1, 2011)

I like it. Nice score.


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## Bruck (Jan 8, 2013)

Gdaddy said:


> Can't wait to see some photos of these little beauties!


Rolled some today, just letting them sit in the mold right now before wrapping.


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## JustTroItIn (Jan 12, 2014)

Bruck said:


> Check it out, y'all:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Wow! Great score from your Aunt. I can't wait to see how they turn out.


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## Heath (Aug 16, 2013)

check it out we're going to be rolling soon. '98 criollo and Virginia looking good. if we screw it up which first time probably will it still aught to go well in fire pit.


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## Tritones (Jun 23, 2010)

Bruck said:


> Check it out, y'all:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'm not into molds, but I would definitely be up for one like that - love me some perfectos!


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## Bruck (Jan 8, 2013)

OK, here's the latest batch of Brohibas on the drying rack, comprised mostly of perfectos from the new mold, plus a few conventional ones.










They're a little rough. I'm learning that rolling and wrapping perfectos is not as easy as cylindrical vitolas! Some of them came out looking a little like perfectos, but most of them, well, I need more practice  Anyway, the innards are 1/2 a leaf each of Dominican Ligero, Colombian Seco, and Brazilian Viso. Binder is Aleman and wrappers are Ecuador Maduro on most of them, and Ecuador shade on two. I will probably use the shade wrapper on more of them in the future as it stretches better. That was the main problem with wrapping - the maduro didn't conform to the football shape very well, even with more glue.

There are a few "regular" cigars in the mix - I'm trying out a blend with Criollo ligero and Cameroon seco, with a couple different warppers.


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## Bruck (Jan 8, 2013)

Smoking one of the new perfectos right now. Flavor is pretty good but it's still a little wet from rolling - I usually let them hume for a week or two before smoking but I was impatient. Burn is okay, draw is a little loose. I'll up the leaf count by a half leaf next time. OTOH, it's been on for about 45 minutes and it's only about half gone.


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## Gdaddy (Sep 20, 2012)

Bruck said:


> OK, here's the latest batch of Brohibas on the drying rack, comprised mostly of perfectos from the new mold, plus a few conventional ones.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That's the problem I have with the Equador maduro wrapper. It's the most difficult to use and it always looks rough. The Aleman seco is far more pliable and stretchy and looks better too. One of my favorite wrappers.

You've inspired me to make a mold in the shape of these cigars. I like the old style look of them. Going to make it a little larger. My project for the day.

It does appear to be more difficult as you have to make adjustments to the filler to get it just right.


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## Bruck (Jan 8, 2013)

Gdaddy said:


> That's the problem I have with the Equador maduro wrapper. It's the most difficult to use and it always looks rough. The Aleman seco is far more pliable and stretchy and looks better too. One of my favorite wrappers.
> 
> You've inspired me to make a mold in the shape of these cigars. I like the old style look of them. Going to make it a little larger. My project for the day.
> 
> It does appear to be more difficult as you have to make adjustments to the filler to get it just right.


I'll have to try the Aleman for wrapper. The Ecuador shade is very pliable as well.

How are you planning to make a mold? Carve it, i.e., are you good with wood? Or do you have a 3D printer? That's what I'm planning to do when 3D printers get more popular and come down in price - forget the AR15 receiver; I'm making cigar molds


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## Gdaddy (Sep 20, 2012)

Bruck said:


> I'll have to try the Aleman for wrapper. The Ecuador shade is very pliable as well.
> 
> How are you planning to make a mold? Carve it, i.e., are you good with wood? Or do you have a 3D printer? That's what I'm planning to do when 3D printers get more popular and come down in price - forget the AR15 receiver; I'm making cigar molds


Was going to try a buttstock for the AR but it's easier/cheaper to just buy one.

I was in the woodworking business for thirty five years but newer technology is far easier. IMHO

Going to make a cigar model out of clay. Let it dry and sand it perfectly smooth.

Then take fresh moist clay and make an impression mold around the cigar. Then slice it in half length wise to make two parts. Shape the clay mold as perfectly as possible adding all details. This could be used as a mold but would crumple under pressing. This clay will be sealed as not to be porous so using 'one step release agent' seals the clay as well as a release agent.

You need three components to make a finished mold. First, pour a silicon mold of the clay mold using mold release spray. Remove the clay and you will be left with a reusable silicon mold. Pour casting urethane resin into the finished silicon mold and out pops a finished cigar mold. Of course doing each top and bottom half separately.

Silicon used will be... Omoo 25
Plastic resin will be... Smooth cast Onyx black plastic.
One step release agent

Smooth-On, Inc. - Mold Making & Casting Materials Rubber, Plastic, Lifecasting, and More

Once the silicon mold is made I can pop out as many molds as I want very easily.


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## DrBob (Mar 26, 2014)

Ok first two cigars are in, looked really nice right up until I applied the wrapper, which I think was not moist enough, so working on that for next rolling session Friday night. The two ratty looking cigars on the left are my creations, next to it is a nicer effort from my friend Kris (@Steah) who should be posting pics of his cigars and some custom molds he has made when he gets enough post count. He has a a few day head start on me, and already turning out beautiful cigars! I hope I catch on as fast as he did . Lookin g forward to smoking one of these as soon as I can get it humidified.


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## jacko (Jul 4, 2014)

why the Cohiba bands ?


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## langos (Mar 1, 2011)

jacko said:


> why the Cohiba bands ?


Look closer...

is "BROHIBA"


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## Bruck (Jan 8, 2013)

DrBob said:


> Ok first two cigars are in, looked really nice right up until I applied the wrapper, which I think was not moist enough, so working on that for next rolling session Friday night. The two ratty looking cigars on the left are my creations, next to it is a nicer effort from my friend Kris (@Steah) who should be posting pics of his cigars and some custom molds he has made when he gets enough post count. He has a a few day head start on me, and already turning out beautiful cigars! I hope I catch on as fast as he did . Lookin g forward to smoking one of these as soon as I can get it humidified.
> 
> View attachment 50191


Good work! Nothing beats the satisfaction of rolling and smoking your own cigar! Wait, I didn't mean for it to sound like that


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## Bruck (Jan 8, 2013)

langos said:


> Look closer...
> 
> is "BROHIBA"


BROHIBA

Manassas, Estados Unidos


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## jacko (Jul 4, 2014)

langos said:


> Look closer...
> 
> is "BROHIBA"
> 
> View attachment 50195


...I'm in awe ! that is outrageously cool


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## Bruck (Jan 8, 2013)

Glad u like  Mrs. Bruck is a graphic design artist, so I gave her the concept and she made it happen.


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## langos (Mar 1, 2011)

For some reason it has it all. It reminds me of a time when it was a thing- not that it's not a thing now, obviously- to use trade mark art and stuff and changing it just enough, to making t-shirts and stickers or whatever, to sell at concerts or whatever. Brilliant Bro! Props to da Mrs! ....


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## DrBob (Mar 26, 2014)

Batch two rolled tonight, @Steah came over and we rolled and put the cigars in molds then took a 2 hour break to smoke a cigar before wrapping. I could get use to this. At any rate these are a big improvement over batch 1 and look a lot more like cigars and a lot less like dog turds . Looking forward to smoking the first of batch one next week at another rolling session.

Using the Whole leaf Terrosa Profundo kit, and sticking to formula except the shorter fatter one which has an added leaf of some brazilian filler Kris brought over. The shorter skinnier one didn't go into a mold, instead I paper rolled it.









The little cigarillos are a short filler experiment, going to wrap them with some leftover binder, and maybe take them on the golf course.


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## Bruck (Jan 8, 2013)

Very nice, Bob, let us know how they smoke!


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## harned (Jun 11, 2013)

Looks good, bob. Here's my last batch with Cameroon wrap, columbian binder, and honduran seco & nic viso filler. I'm betting they are smoother than my last ligero bombs.


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## Gdaddy (Sep 20, 2012)

Made from a hand made mold I carved this past weekend...









This is my 'Little Rudy' shaggy foot


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## Bruck (Jan 8, 2013)

harned said:


> Looks good, bob. Here's my last batch with Cameroon wrap, columbian binder, and honduran seco & nic viso filler. I'm betting they are smoother than my last ligero bombs.


Lookin good, Curtis! Yes, that blend should be smooth, somewhat complex, and a little sweet.


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## Bruck (Jan 8, 2013)

My latest tobacco sculptures:










Trying various permutations of a blend that @Gdaddy particularly liked - Cameroon wrapper, aleman binder, criollo ligeor, and piloto cubano seco (dominican). A few of them have Ecuador shade wrappers. Dig the tail on the big one - couldn't bear to trim it


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## Steah (Aug 10, 2014)

Gdaddy said:


> Made from a hand made mold I carved this past weekend...
> 
> View attachment 50307


That's a nice looking mold. I don't think I have the patience for carving by hand. I tend to get frustrated at some point in the journey.
Did you do anything special/unobvious with the filler when rolling it?


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## Steah (Aug 10, 2014)

Sorry for the slight side-track:
Last Friday I attempted to create a new thread to discuss rolling techniques. After I submitted, I was informed that a moderator would need to approve before it would be visible. Any idea how long it takes for the moderators to clear newbies' topics? How does one go about getting in contact with a moderator?


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## Gdaddy (Sep 20, 2012)

Steah said:


> That's a nice looking mold. I don't think I have the patience for carving by hand. I tend to get frustrated at some point in the journey.
> Did you do anything special/unobvious with the filler when rolling it?


The filler gets assembled with a taper at both ends. Obviously. The thing that's not obvious is that the filler gets bunched with the tips of the tobacco toward the foot of the cigar. You can see them popping out of the shaggy foot. The most flavorful part of the leaf should be up front and the least should be in the end you put in your mouth and throw away. No one hardly ever mentions this but it's a very important step to produce the richest flavor the leaf has to offer.


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## Gdaddy (Sep 20, 2012)

Here's the mold I carved last weekend...


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## Tritones (Jun 23, 2010)

Gdaddy said:


> ... the filler gets bunched with the tips of the tobacco toward the foot of the cigar. ... The most flavorful part of the leaf should be up front and the least should be in the end you put in your mouth and throw away. ... it's a very important step to produce the richest flavor the leaf has to offer.


This is good stuff!


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## Gdaddy (Sep 20, 2012)

Tritones said:


> This is good stuff!


Here's a photo of a seco filler leaf. It's folded over to see the difference of the tip of the leaf and the stalk end being lighter and half as dark. The richest tobacco wants to go up front in the foot. I talk about this in my video.


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## harned (Jun 11, 2013)

That mold is the shiz. Nice carving!


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## Bruck (Jan 8, 2013)

Steah said:


> Sorry for the slight side-track:
> Last Friday I attempted to create a new thread to discuss rolling techniques. After I submitted, I was informed that a moderator would need to approve before it would be visible. Any idea how long it takes for the moderators to clear newbies' topics? How does one go about getting in contact with a moderator?


Under quick links, there's a list of moderators.
I'm not sure when you can submit threads w/o moderator approval. But go ahead and ask your questions here - all of us torcedor wannabes monitor this thread


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## Rook83 (Apr 8, 2013)

Hey @Bruck and @Gdaddy I was wondering what ring gauge molds do y'all use? I normally use a 48 (from leafonly), but sold it recently...just curious...I just bought a true vintage mold from Tabacaleria de Garcia (they do RyJs and Montes I think), and am not 100% certain of the RG...also, how is the xanthan gum as glue? I bought some and was wondering how you liked it...is it the same 1 to 2 ratio with water?


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## Nicotine Napalm (Jul 31, 2014)

Gdaddy said:


> Here's a photo of a seco filler leaf. It's folded over to see the difference of the tip of the leaf and the stalk end being lighter and half as dark. The richest tobacco wants to go up front in the foot. I talk about this in my video.
> 
> View attachment 50319


Thanks for the info, Gdaddy! Wish I read this before I rolled some tonight--I was literally wondering which end of my bunch to make the foot . . .


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## Gdaddy (Sep 20, 2012)

Rook83 said:


> Hey @Bruck and @Gdaddy I was wondering what ring gauge molds do y'all use? I normally use a 48 (from leafonly), but sold it recently...just curious...I just bought a true vintage mold from Tabacaleria de Garcia (they do RyJs and Montes I think), and am not 100% certain of the RG...also, how is the xanthan gum as glue? I bought some and was wondering how you liked it...is it the same 1 to 2 ratio with water?


I use a 52 rg mold.

The Zanthan gum is good. I mix it thick. However it did get moldy rather quickly even though it was refrigerator. Used in wall paper paste.

I do like the cellulose the best although I am going to order some Gum Tragacanth next just for fun.


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## Gdaddy (Sep 20, 2012)

Nicotine Napalm said:


> Thanks for the info, Gdaddy! Wish I read this before I rolled some tonight--I was literally wondering which end of my bunch to make the foot . . .


Make sure your bunch is assembled so the tips are grouped together and rolled into the binder and the wrapper with the tips located up front in the foot. The best tobacco is what you want to smoke. You saw the video right?


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## Rook83 (Apr 8, 2013)

Gdaddy said:


> I use a 52 rg mold.
> 
> The Zanthan gum is good. I mix it thick. However it did get moldy rather quickly even though it was refrigerator. Used in wall paper paste.
> 
> I do like the cellulose the best although I am going to order some Gum Tragacanth next just for fun.


Awesome, thanks...the problem I was having with the pectin is that it wouldn't really adhere as well as I would like until it dried completely in the mold...


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## Bruck (Jan 8, 2013)

Rook83 said:


> Hey @Bruck and @Gdaddy I was wondering what ring gauge molds do y'all use? I normally use a 48 (from leafonly), but sold it recently...just curious...I just bought a true vintage mold from Tabacaleria de Garcia (they do RyJs and Montes I think), and am not 100% certain of the RG...also, how is the xanthan gum as glue? I bought some and was wondering how you liked it...is it the same 1 to 2 ratio with water?


Hello Shahrukh - my molds are 3/4" PVC, so 48 RG, some Churchill single molds that are 52 RG (same as the ones Don uses), and an antique small perfecto mold which I estimate to have an approximately 42 RG in the widest part.

I've never used Xanthan gum, but I have used gum arabic - is that the same thing? Anyway, the gum arabic worked okay, but I have some cellulose glue that works great, so I gave my wife back her gum arabic


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## Bruck (Jan 8, 2013)

Rook83 said:


> Hey @Bruck and @Gdaddy I was wondering what ring gauge molds do y'all use? I normally use a 48 (from leafonly), but sold it recently...just curious...I just bought a true vintage mold from Tabacaleria de Garcia (they do RyJs and Montes I think), and am not 100% certain of the RG...also, how is the xanthan gum as glue? I bought some and was wondering how you liked it...is it the same 1 to 2 ratio with water?


Hello Shahrukh - my molds are 3/4" PVC, so 48 RG, some Churchill single molds that are 52 RG (same as the ones Don uses), and an antique small perfecto mold which I estimate to have an approximately 42 RG in the widest part.

I've never used Xanthan gum, but I have used gum arabic - is that the same thing? Anyway, the gum arabic worked okay, but I have some cellulose glue that works great, so I gave my wife back her gum arabic


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## langos (Mar 1, 2011)

Your studdering.


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## Gdaddy (Sep 20, 2012)

Rook83 said:


> Awesome, thanks...the problem I was having with the pectin is that it wouldn't really adhere as well as I would like until it dried completely in the mold...


Sorry, I forgot. Here's the web site where both Bruck and I get the glue...

Cigar Rolling Products, Cigar molds, Chaveta Knife, Cigar Glue, etc.


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## Rook83 (Apr 8, 2013)

Gdaddy said:


> Sorry, I forgot. Here's the web site where both Bruck and I get the glue...
> 
> Cigar Rolling Products, Cigar molds, Chaveta Knife, Cigar Glue, etc.


Oh yeah, he sent me an email of his site a few weeks ago...obviously you can refrigerate the unused glue right?


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## Gdaddy (Sep 20, 2012)

Rook83 said:


> Oh yeah, he sent me an email of his site a few weeks ago...obviously you can refrigerate the unused glue right?


Yes. He sends his glue with a nice plastic container to keep it in. The glue is crystal clear, odorless and tasteless and the unused glue lasts for a good while refrigerated.
I mix small amounts pretty thick viscosity like a gel. Works very well. The Xanthan got moldy pretty fast.


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## Rook83 (Apr 8, 2013)

Gdaddy said:


> Yes. He sends his glue with a nice plastic container to keep it in. The glue is crystal clear, odorless and tasteless and the unused glue lasts for a good while refrigerated.
> I mix small amounts pretty thick viscosity like a gel. Works very well. The Xanthan got moldy pretty fast.


Thanks for the info Don...I'll be putting an order in for his cellulose glue and some new leaf...I have tons of Cameroon wrapper (cracked to hell because I didn't know what I was doing at first), Nic ligero and Nic viso...was thinking about just some PA oscuro binder, Honduran viso filler and Connecticut wrapper...not sure yet...but my schedule has cleared up a bit so i need to get back into it...and my mold gets delivered tomorrow or the day after!


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## Rook83 (Apr 8, 2013)

Bruck said:


> Hello Shahrukh - my molds are 3/4" PVC, so 48 RG, some Churchill single molds that are 52 RG (same as the ones Don uses), and an antique small perfecto mold which I estimate to have an approximately 42 RG in the widest part.
> 
> I've never used Xanthan gum, but I have used gum arabic - is that the same thing? Anyway, the gum arabic worked okay, but I have some cellulose glue that works great, so I gave my wife back her gum arabic


Thanks for the info...how are the perfectos coming out?


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## Gdaddy (Sep 20, 2012)

Rook83 said:


> Thanks for the info Don...I'll be putting an order in for his cellulose glue and some new leaf...I have tons of Cameroon wrapper (cracked to hell because I didn't know what I was doing at first), Nic ligero and Nic viso...was thinking about just some PA oscuro binder, Honduran viso filler and Connecticut wrapper...not sure yet...but my schedule has cleared up a bit so i need to get back into it...and my mold gets delivered tomorrow or the day after!


That CT wrapper is beautiful. Like golden yellow silk. Haven't tasted it yet but the cigars are perfect looking. I use the PA Oscuro wrapper and love it. Nice and chocolate big leaves. Honduran is nice too.

I also add the most boring of all the leaves on the list which is volado. Very mild but it burns great and, very importantly, helps to tone down all the strong flavored tobacco I have. Straight Nicaraguan seco and Ligero is too sharp and over powering for me but replace some with volado and it helps it enormously. It's like cooking. If you use all strong spices in the dish you lose the subtleties of all of them. Thought to ponder.


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## Bruck (Jan 8, 2013)

Rook83 said:


> Thanks for the info...how are the perfectos coming out?


Not too bad - have made a few batches of them. Started out pretty "rustic" looking, slowly getting better.

U been rolling lately?


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## Rook83 (Apr 8, 2013)

Bruck said:


> Not too bad - have made a few batches of them. Started out pretty "rustic" looking, slowly getting better.
> 
> U been rolling lately?


My schedule's been rough and I sold my leafonly cigar mold...It just wasn't for me...I bought another vintage one that will be delivered tomorrow...I thought it was a steal for $29...it has the original Romeo Y Julieta stamp on it, so I'm hoping its in good condition and hoping the RG is between 44-52...I am going to order some more leaf tonight and that cellulose glue...going on a bit of a vacation to LA and Vegas, so hopefully in between those two trips I can roll some...hopefully we can swap when I'm done! I'll keep y'all posted!


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## langos (Mar 1, 2011)

Rook83 said:


> ....I bought another vintage one that will be delivered tomorrow...I thought it was a steal for $29...it has the original Romeo Y Julieta stamp on it, so I'm hoping its in good condition and hoping the RG is between 44-52....



Is this the mold you got or like this?







If so, I have one like it. .._(#10)_



MarcL said:


> I bought a Montecristo White mold like this and, the branding on these type of molds scream Altadis USA because there all General cigar brands.
> I like the idea that their used for shipping or even better, displaying finished cigars in them.
> 
> This is what I know. They are .90 inch wide and .93 inch tall in the cavity. An oval.
> ...


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## Rook83 (Apr 8, 2013)

langos said:


> Is this the mold you got or like this?
> View attachment 50418
> 
> If so, I have one like it. .._(#10)_
> ...


dang...that is the one I got...is it functional? as in does it actually work to shape and smooth a rolled cigar? .90 would be like a 57 ring gauge...that's way bigger than what i was looking for...


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## langos (Mar 1, 2011)

Rook83 said:


> dang...that is the one I got...is it functional? as in does it actually work to shape and smooth a rolled cigar? .90 would be like a 57 ring gauge...that's way bigger than what i was looking for...


It should function. Mine does. It has solid wood halves with the grain that runs perpendicular to the cigar. The circumference is irregular and, the head sides don't meet together by 0.23 inches. (fixed with some TLC) 
I get a fat smoke with a slightly lopsided round head that won't roll away from me so easy. Perfecto.
I think they were meant for display by or for Altadis USA. I'm not sure.

Here is something on it. Cigar Molds made for Eye Candy


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## Rook83 (Apr 8, 2013)

langos said:


> It should function. Mine does. It has solid wood halves with the grain that runs perpendicular to the cigar. The circumference is irregular and, the head sides don't meet together by 0.23 inches. (fixed with some TLC)
> I get a fat smoke with a slightly lopsided round head that won't roll away from me so easy. Perfecto.
> I think they were meant for display by or for Altadis USA. I'm not sure.
> 
> Here is something on it. Cigar Molds made for Eye Candy


Thanks for the heads up...I just received the mold and it is friggin huge! I have already requested a refund so hopefully that will go through just fine...I think I should just suck it up and buy the used molds from wholeleaftobacco.com...I think they are $50 plus shipping...but they look to be the good quality professional mold...


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## Gdaddy (Sep 20, 2012)

Rook83 said:


> Thanks for the heads up...I just received the mold and it is friggin huge! I have already requested a refund so hopefully that will go through just fine...I think I should just suck it up and buy the used molds from wholeleaftobacco.com...I think they are $50 plus shipping...but they look to be the good quality professional mold...


48 x 7 1/4", 52 x 7", 54 x 6 1/2" and 60 x 6 1/4. Please indicate the size you want in the "special instructions" area.

Professional Cigar Molds (slightly used)

or

If you don't have a need to do 10 cigars at a time you might consider single molds. I'm not a production roller so I use 2 of them and do 4 to 6 cigars a day at my leisure and they are very easy to use and very high quality.









get them here...

Cigar Rolling Products, Cigar molds, Chaveta Knife, Cigar Glue, etc.


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## Rook83 (Apr 8, 2013)

Gdaddy said:


> 48 x 7 1/4", 52 x 7", 54 x 6 1/2" and 60 x 6 1/4. Please indicate the size you want in the "special instructions" area.
> 
> Professional Cigar Molds (slightly used)
> 
> ...


Yeah I think I will go with the 10 capacity mold...gonna get some of that glue from John though...


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## langos (Mar 1, 2011)

It was tough for me to do it. They are nice. Eventually, I got both kinds. but, it was after getting some older ones.


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## Rook83 (Apr 8, 2013)

langos said:


> It was tough for me to do it. They are nice. Eventually, I got both kinds. but, it was after getting some older ones.


yeah man, I'm bitter about this...but thankfully I'm flying out on vacation in a few hours, so its not like I could roll soon anyways...by the way, the diameter of the holes would have yielded a 62RG cigar! That's way too big for me! So hopefully he'll respond soon and we'll get the ball rolling on the refund...


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## langos (Mar 1, 2011)

They're kinda nice looking but, I was a little disappointed. I used it and kept it. Does the head area line up on yours?


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## Rook83 (Apr 8, 2013)

langos said:


> There kinda nice looking but, I was a little disappointed. I used it and kept it. Does the head area line up on yours?


I would have to sand it down a bit for the head part to fit...it seems that the skinny part that should slide in is too thick...

But now I have an effin' ethical dilemma...He just refunded my money + shipping and told me to keep the mold...and the money is already in my ****** account...I will still ship it back to him...I don't think I'd feel right keeping it...although it does look pretty cool...


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## langos (Mar 1, 2011)

That's interesting. Maybe not worth the hassle or, some bad eBay Feedback?


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## langos (Mar 1, 2011)

Rook83 said:


> I would have to sand it down a bit for the head part to fit...it seems that the skinny part that should slide in is too thick...
> 
> But now I have an effin' ethical dilemma...I don't think I'd feel right keeping it......


or maybe it's that your the One with the interest? pass it forward?


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## Rook83 (Apr 8, 2013)

langos said:


> or maybe it's that your the One with the interest? pass it forward?


Yeah I agree...if he doesn't want it back...I'll figure something out...I did just buy the one from wholeleaftobacco.com...I'm sure those are great molds, although I haven't heard much about them...


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## langos (Mar 1, 2011)

I can tell you that new ones are flawless and, might need some breaking in. They're tight. The used ones are very nice, with some hardly significant cracking. Both have bin treated with mineral oil.


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## langos (Mar 1, 2011)

Rook83 said:


> ......I did just buy the one from wholeleaftobacco.com...I'm sure those are great molds, although I haven't heard much about them...


What I do like about wood is that they do breath some.


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## Rook83 (Apr 8, 2013)

langos said:


> I can tell you that new ones are flawless and, might need some breaking in. They're tight. The used ones are very nice, with some hardly significant cracking. Both have bin treated with mineral oil.


nice, thanks for the info!


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## Rook83 (Apr 8, 2013)

Gdaddy said:


> I use a 52 rg mold.
> 
> The Zanthan gum is good. I mix it thick. However it did get moldy rather quickly even though it was refrigerator. Used in wall paper paste.
> 
> I do like the cellulose the best although I am going to order some Gum Tragacanth next just for fun.


Is there a particular brand or site you get your tragacanth from?


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## Gdaddy (Sep 20, 2012)

Rook83 said:


> Is there a particular brand or site you get your tragacanth from?


anything for Cooking, Baking for Culinary or Pastry items in Kitchen tools and supplies store on eBay!


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## madbricky (Mar 29, 2013)

@Gdaddy Don, could you post up links for all your YouTube vids? Thanks!


----------



## langos (Mar 1, 2011)




----------



## Gdaddy (Sep 20, 2012)

langos said:


>


Thanks Marc!


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## DrBob (Mar 26, 2014)

After a painfully long rest period of about 4 weeks smoked some of my first two batches the last couple of days. Here's a pic of me smoking a batch 1. Started out creamy and had a little leather and pepper, evolved into a nice strong leather and pepper at mid cigar and was full on earthy and peppery at the end.









And here's a pic of @Steah smoking a toro from my batch 2. He nubbed it so I will let him post a review of it if he wants 









Looking forward to rolling batch three after taste testing 1 and 2!


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## Bruck (Jan 8, 2013)

DrBob said:


> After a painfully long rest period of about 4 weeks smoked some of my first two batches the last couple of days. Here's a pic of me smoking a batch 1. Started out creamy and had a little leather and pepper, evolved into a nice strong leather and pepper at mid cigar and was full on earthy and peppery at the end.
> 
> View attachment 50511
> 
> ...


The joy of smoking your own brand 

I brought a box of stogies out to hunting camp the weekend before last, a mix of Brohibas and various commercial sticks. Didn't bring any Brohibas back home! Objectively speaking, mine are not as good as the commercial sticks in the $5 and up range, but they taste better bcs they're homemade 

Your 2nd pic reminds me of a time I went to the Dr. with a sports injury, which turned out to be just a pulled calf muscle. The doc had me roll up my pantleg, and immediately had me roll up the other one. He looks at both and says, "you have enormous calves!" Um, thank you, I think...


----------



## droy1958 (Sep 3, 2014)

Bruck said:


> The joy of smoking your own brand
> 
> I brought a box of stogies out to hunting camp the weekend before last, a mix of Brohibas and various commercial sticks. Didn't bring any Brohibas back home! Objectively speaking, mine are not as good as the commercial sticks in the $5 and up range, but they taste better bcs they're homemade
> 
> Your 2nd pic reminds me of a time I went to the Dr. with a sports injury, which turned out to be just a pulled calf muscle. The doc had me roll up my pantleg, and immediately had me roll up the other one. He looks at both and says, "you have enormous calves!" Um, thank you, I think...


Good to see another brother of the woods on here. My friend and I have 620 acres (320 ours) 300 leased in north central OK. We built a lodge on it and it's a little piece of heaven....As far as your doctor....errrr....I don't know.....


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## Bruck (Jan 8, 2013)

droy1958 said:


> Good to see another brother of the woods on here. My friend and I have 620 acres (320 ours) 300 leased in north central OK. We built a lodge on it and it's a little piece of heaven....As far as your doctor....errrr....I don't know.....


Sounds nice! We just use the national and state forests. The doc's wife works in the same office so I'm pretty sure he wasn't hitting on me


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## droy1958 (Sep 3, 2014)

Bruck said:


> Sounds nice! We just use the national and state forests. The doc's wife works in the same office so I'm pretty sure he wasn't hitting on me


Well that's yours also. Thats some beautiful country! Didn't say he was hitting on you, but I will only comment on hairless legs....Just the way I roll....


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## Steah (Aug 10, 2014)

DrBob said:


> He nubbed it so I will let him post a review of it if he wants


It was tasty! I guess I should have replied right away so I could remember more :/

Here's the novelty of our Labor Day camping trip to the Gila Wilderness:







Drew Estates' "Egg"

I ordered a Sebroso Medio kit from WLT, here are the first three:







The rightmost stick was book rolled to see how I liked it. The other two are entubado like all my previous cigars. Certainly faster to assemble, we'll see how it holds up in a few weeks.


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## langos (Mar 1, 2011)

Nice!


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## Bruck (Jan 8, 2013)

My latest batch, rolled them today:










With this batch I'm trying out some new tobacco I got from "Bigbonner," a grower in KY who posts on the Fair Trade site (PM me for his website if you're interested).
Wrappers are Ecuador shade and Ecuador maduro.
Binders are Bigbonner's "One Sucker" (his website explains the unusual name). This is a dark, leathery leaf, which makes an excellent binder.
Innards are various amounts of Criollo ligero (Nicaraguan), Brazil viso, Piloto Cubano Seco (Dominican), and Bigbonner's burley.
The burley is an experiment - never tried that leaf in a stogie before, but I usually include burley in my flake tobacco pressings. I hope it works well in the blend; otherwise I just rolled 9 dog rockets


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## Bruck (Jan 8, 2013)

I can't help myself, took a day off work today and rolled some more. Here they are on the drying rack:










This batch is some more of the blend I made a couple batches ago:
Wrapper: Cameroon (2 are Ecuador maduro)
Binder: Aleman (German born, Dominican processed)
Filler: Criollo ligero (Nicaraguan), Piloto Cubano Seco (Dominican), and in a few I put some Cameroon seco.

Been rolling a lot lately to replenish my inventory which is way down due to gifts, trades, and hunting camp


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## OnePyroTec (Dec 11, 1997)

What's the word with the burley experiment Bruce? Try one yet?


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## Bruck (Jan 8, 2013)

OnePyroTec said:


> What's the word with the burley experiment Bruce? Try one yet?


Not yet - I like to let them sit a couple weeks after rolling; actually 6 weeks or more is ideal, but I'm not that patient  Before 2 weeks though, it's really a different stick.


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## Bruck (Jan 8, 2013)

OnePyroTec said:


> What's the word with the burley experiment Bruce? Try one yet?


Smoking one right now. The burley adds a little citrusy sweetness and sharpness to the flavor. It's not bad, but I really haven't let them rest long enough to know the true flavor. I was just impatient  It adds a little of what I would characterize as cigarette-like flavor, but not in a bad way. I'll probably keep burley in the rotation for future blends.

This is fortunate, as I have a bunch of surplus burley - the grower from whom I ordered my last batch of leaves messed up and sent me 2# of the stuff which I didn't order, but he told me to keep them and subsequently sent me the correct order - nice guy! Burley is a good addition to my flake pressings, as well as cigarette tobacco blends, so I'll eventually put it all to good use.


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## NorCalJaybird (Sep 2, 2014)

You guys are REALLY getting good at rolling. I just went through the entire thread and DAMN! Now I too am wanting to roll my own. I think its a little ways a way yet though for me.

Cheers
Jay


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## NorCalJaybird (Sep 2, 2014)

langos said:


>


Just watched all 3. Well done sir! Makes me want to start rolling!

Cheers
Jay


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## Billb1960 (Oct 10, 2014)

Some incredible stogies being rolled here! Thanks to all of the posters who took the time to share their lessons and encourage the newbies. I don't know that I'll ever have the determination and patience to roll my own but if I do i'm definitely going to revisit this thread.


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## Bruck (Jan 8, 2013)

Billb1960 said:


> Some incredible stogies being rolled here! Thanks to all of the posters who took the time to share their lessons and encourage the newbies. I don't know that I'll ever have the determination and patience to roll my own but if I do i'm definitely going to revisit this thread.


Well there is a learning curve but it's not as hard as it looks.


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## HIM (Sep 12, 2012)

So Im seriously considering taking the plunge on this and had some questions hopefully someone could help me with. Any advice is appreciated!

1. About how many filler leaves go into a 50 RG cigar? Im trying to figure out what a sensible amount of seco, viso, and ligero to have on hand is. 

2. How are you storing your leaf between rolling sessions?

3. How much ligero are you using and whats the body like of your cigars? Reading that most habanos are rolled with 1/4 or 1/2 a leaf of ligero Im imagining I'd need a full leaf to get more of a Nica strength. This obviously takes tweaking to fit my preference but I'm trying to find a good starting point.

4. Is there much of if any difference between the different glues?


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## Gdaddy (Sep 20, 2012)

HIM said:


> So Im seriously considering taking the plunge on this and had some questions hopefully someone could help me with. Any advice is appreciated!
> 
> 1. About how many filler leaves go into a 50 RG cigar? Im trying to figure out what a sensible amount of seco, viso, and ligero to have on hand is.
> 
> ...


Yes! Pectin is a VERY bitter glue and I had a very bad experience using it so I say NEVER use that stuff. Start off right and use the glue the pros use which is gum Taraganth or cellulose glue. Both are tasteless and colorless. Xanthan gum works well but will get moldy fairly quickly. All glue is kept refrigerated.

If you want to take this hobby to the next level then cigar rolling is for you. You can try some pre-packaged blended sampler found here...

Cigar Tobaccos

Any other question feel free to contact one of us.

Good luck!!!


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## Gdaddy (Sep 20, 2012)

FYI...This guy sells excellents molds and glue...

Cigar Rolling Products, Cigar molds, Chaveta Knife, Cigar Glue, etc.


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## HIM (Sep 12, 2012)

Sweet stuff thanks Don


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## Bruck (Jan 8, 2013)

OnePyroTec said:


> What's the word with the burley experiment Bruce? Try one yet?


Now that they've rested a few weeks, the flavor is settling in properly. The burley adds more of a "tobacco" flavor  Hard to explain, but kind of a sharp sweetness that balances well with the Latino leaves.


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## HIM (Sep 12, 2012)

Nica ligero and viso, seco binder, and PA Oscuro wrapper. Smoked well and was pretty tasty. I'll definitely be rolling more to give some rest.


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## Bruck (Jan 8, 2013)

Very good, Cole! The PA Oscuro is a wrapper I'll have to try out one of these days.

That was my problem when I first started out - I was too impatient to let them rest long enough before smoking. What am I saying? I still do that!


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## tmoran (Mar 25, 2014)

Bruck, I would love to try a couple of your RYO's, the burley looks particularly interesting to me. PM me if you are interested in a trade. We're probably not far from each other, so we can even arrange a local meetup.


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## HIM (Sep 12, 2012)

Bruck said:


> Very good, Cole! The PA Oscuro is a wrapper I'll have to try out one of these days.
> 
> That was my problem when I first started out - I was too impatient to let them rest long enough before smoking. What am I saying? I still do that!


Thanks Bruce. Its a great looking and smelling wrapper with a bit of sweetness. I'm going to try and roll a bunch of them so it'll make it easier to give em some down time. I can see these tasting much better in a few months. It wasn't as spicy as I'd like but the strength was a nice med-full.


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## Gdaddy (Sep 20, 2012)

HIM said:


> Nica ligero and viso, seco binder, and PA Oscuro wrapper. Smoked well and was pretty tasty. I'll definitely be rolling more to give some rest.
> 
> View attachment 50948
> 
> ...


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## HIM (Sep 12, 2012)

Gdaddy said:


> Proud of you brother! They look very nice!


thanks for all the help!


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## Bruck (Jan 8, 2013)

HIM said:


> Thanks Bruce. Its a great looking and smelling wrapper with a bit of sweetness. I'm going to try and roll a bunch of them so it'll make it easier to give em some down time. I can see these tasting much better in a few months. It wasn't as spicy as I'd like but the strength was a nice med-full.


They just get better over time - I like to let them acclimate for at least a couple weeks before smoking. I think about the longest I've kept an RYO around is about 3 months. I'm currently smoking a perfecto I made in August.

BTW, I'm not sure how important aesthetics are to you, but there are some techniques for keeping the wrapper smooth. The main one is developing a technique of lightly pulling while rolling the wrapper around. It would be easier if you had 3 hands  But hey, one thing at a time. The main thing is coming up with a nice, tasty blend.


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## HIM (Sep 12, 2012)

Bruck said:


> They just get better over time - I like to let them acclimate for at least a couple weeks before smoking. I think about the longest I've kept an RYO around is about 3 months. I'm currently smoking a perfecto I made in August.
> 
> BTW, I'm not sure how important aesthetics are to you, but there are some techniques for keeping the wrapper smooth. The main one is developing a technique of lightly pulling while rolling the wrapper around. It would be easier if you had 3 hands  But hey, one thing at a time. The main thing is coming up with a nice, tasty blend.


They aren't the end all be all but Im still trying to make them look like something I'd pay good money for. I knew about stretching the leaf but as with many things in life its easier said than done lol. Give me a couple months though and I'll have the whole thing down pat. Level 7 roller in the making :biggrin:


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## NorCalJaybird (Sep 2, 2014)

HIM said:


> They aren't the end all be all but Im still trying to make them look like something I'd pay good money for. I knew about stretching the leaf but as with many things in life its easier said than done lol. Give me a couple months though and I'll have the whole thing down pat. Level 7 roller in the making :biggrin:


HELL YEAH!!!! Go get em Level 7!

Cheers
Jay


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## Bruck (Jan 8, 2013)

HIM said:


> They aren't the end all be all but Im still trying to make them look like something I'd pay good money for. I knew about stretching the leaf but as with many things in life its easier said than done lol. Give me a couple months though and I'll have the whole thing down pat. Level 7 roller in the making :biggrin:


It doesn't hurt to be Cuban as well 

The main advantage that the professionals have is that they start out with really good leaves, whereas the ones we buy are a real mixed bag, so to speak. Also, because I'm the world's biggest cheapskate, I like to use as much of the leaf as possible, particularly the expensiver wrapper leaves.


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## HIM (Sep 12, 2012)

Bruck said:


> It doesn't hurt to be Cuban as well
> 
> The main advantage that the professionals have is that they start out with really good leaves, whereas the ones we buy are a real mixed bag, so to speak. Also, because I'm the world's biggest cheapskate, I like to use as much of the leaf as possible, particularly the expensiver wrapper leaves.


It also seems like the rollers have their wrappers and binders really well prepped for them. Every crease or wrinkle always looks perfectly stretched out and each leaf just looks perfect when they go to use it. That type of stuff plays big into aesthetics.


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## Gdaddy (Sep 20, 2012)

HIM said:


> It also seems like the rollers have their wrappers and binders really well prepped for them. Every crease or wrinkle always looks perfectly stretched out and each leaf just looks perfect when they go to use it. That type of stuff plays big into aesthetics.


Yep, the leaves look like pressed canvas or thin leather. The thing that will do the most for your cigars appearance is a good mold.


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## HIM (Sep 12, 2012)

Gdaddy said:


> Yep, the leaves look like pressed canvas or thin leather. The thing that will do the most for your cigars appearance is a good mold.


thats really a perfect description


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## langos (Mar 1, 2011)

I find sorting and preparing leaf could or should be essential. texture, weight/burn, color


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## Gdaddy (Sep 20, 2012)

langos said:


> I find sorting and preparing leaf could or should be essential. texture, weight/burn, color


Yes , in deed.

The leaves come very dry out of the bag and can certainly be rolled right out of the bag. However, if you mist them to get them pliable you will find that there are many folds and wrinkles that can be flattened and smoothed out. I do this with all binder leaf and of course the wrapper leaf.

I also do a lot of experimentation with blends so frequently spray the filler leaves and ligero leaves and flatten them out also. Almost every leaf will expand it's size by a fair amount once you unfold the hidden layers. I never let leaves stay wet for more than 24 hours and bring them back to low case again. Mold can begin pretty quickly.

I really don't think it makes a better looking cigar but it does make for a more uniform burn since their are no clumps or veins. Just smooth leaf.


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## langos (Mar 1, 2011)

Good stuff. I like the slower, ambient hydration that spraying the walls of the vessel brings. I've got some what of a staging of hydrating that gives me a nice workability that I like. It enables rolling on a whim.


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## HIM (Sep 12, 2012)

Has anyone tried the Piloto Cubano Viso? If so is this a good description(from whole leaf)....

"Flavor profiles are, slight nutmeg and cinnamon, smooth and nutty with hints of earth and slight vanilla notes."


How about the corojo 99 viso(also from whole leaf)...

"It has a malty sweetness with notes of cedar, nutmeg and white and black pepper. The smoke is thick, full bodied, earthy and smooth."


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## Gdaddy (Sep 20, 2012)

HIM said:


> Has anyone tried the Piloto Cubano Viso? If so is this a good description(from whole leaf)....
> 
> "Flavor profiles are, slight nutmeg and cinnamon, smooth and nutty with hints of earth and slight vanilla notes."
> 
> ...


I really like both the Piloto seco and the stronger viso. The Criollo 98 is also a very good choice.

"Corojo is a robust tobacco, not for the faint of heart." (not my cup of tea)


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## HIM (Sep 12, 2012)

Gdaddy said:


> I really like both the Piloto seco and the stronger viso. The Criollo 98 is also a very good choice.
> 
> "Corojo is a robust tobacco, not for the faint of heart." (not my cup of tea)


the 3 things I'm looking at for my next order is the two I named and the Criollo 98 actually. I remembered what you said about how it smelled so Im excited to try it out. Would you say the piloto has a sweet spice character to it?


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## langos (Mar 1, 2011)

Yes. I like it. I can Hardly argue with there descriptions at times but, I'm not sure how good I am at favor profiling. I didn't think I would like the corojo or criollo fillers as much as I do but, .... what can I say. the pounds I get do have some variance of primings it seems. meaning, there should be some sorting left to do. but. if your having trouble deciding which one to get or both, get one. ... more for me. hehe


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## Bruck (Jan 8, 2013)

+1 on the Piloto cubano seco - very good flavor, I assume the viso would be as well.
Also +1 on the criollo 98, very nice.

These two as filler, aleman binder, and cameroon wrapper are my best blend so far.


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## HIM (Sep 12, 2012)

The blend I had in mind was...

1 piloto seco
1 corojo 99 viso
1 Criollo 98 ligero
Dominican Binder

Havent settled on a wrapper yet. I'll probably try a few out with the same blend like Ive been doing. I have a feeling though that cameroon would be a good fit though.


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## langos (Mar 1, 2011)

what are you all doing? ..


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## langos (Mar 1, 2011)

LFD - dbl PRESS (counterfeit)


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## Rook83 (Apr 8, 2013)

langos said:


> LFD - dbl PRESS (counterfeit)
> View attachment 52709


Thats awesome! I gotta get back to rolling soon!


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## Ming on Mongo (May 15, 2015)

Noob here about to 'take the plunge', and what an outstanding thread… kudos to y'all! 

Maybe a dumb question, but I hear there are some folks who even leave out the wrapper altogether, which also seems to be a common practice among many of the factory torcedores who 'roll their own' for while they're working. So aside from the 'aesthetics' and some added flavor aspects, what's everyone's opinion on that? BTW, am mostly just looking to roll a quality 'everyday' and 'backyard' kinda smoke, where 'organic' looks are ok, but one where the tobacco quality and variety are also maybe a couple steps improved over a cheap backwoods "cheroot".


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## Rook83 (Apr 8, 2013)

I say go for it...I've done a couple of cigars without a wrapper and didn't really like the quality all that much, but that depends on what type of leaves you use...most of the binders I've bought from the online shops have small holes and tears in them...if you've read this super long thread, I'm the guy who is all about the aesthetics...so that was not satisfactory for me...but its going to take some trial and error...I guess if you find some binder that is really good quality and doesn't have rips in it, it should turn out just fine...good luck and post some pics!


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## Ming on Mongo (May 15, 2015)

Rook83 said:


> I say go for it...I've done a couple of cigars without a wrapper and didn't really like the quality all that much, but that depends on what type of leaves you use...most of the binders I've bought from the online shops have small holes and tears in them...if you've read this super long thread, I'm the guy who is all about the aesthetics...so that was not satisfactory for me...but its going to take some trial and error...I guess if you find some binder that is really good quality and doesn't have rips in it, it should turn out just fine...good luck and post some pics!


Thx, and understood re: the small holes & tears preventing a good 'seal' without the wrapper. Speaking of which, the 'entubado' method seems to make a lot of sense, especially for assembling a more 'controllable' blend. But does it also tend towards insuring a better 'draw' than say, 'book' bunching?

BTW, I kinda got hooked on Bezuki leaf on a trip to Indonesia, so if I do go for 'aesthetics', that'll be my first choice for a wrapper. And I gather from previous posts, that it's fairly 'versatile' and actually doesn't seem to interfere with the other blends that much? If not, what does it seem to pair well with?


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## langos (Mar 1, 2011)

It's always nice to see someone starting to roll. all you'll need is the will.. mostly.

Here is some more stuff to look at.

Cigar Forum

HERE >>> c i g a r b u m DOT com/forum/torcederos-unidos/homerollers-stand-counted-1870.html

whole leaf >>> Whole Leaf Tobacco | Roll your own cigars - Buy tobacco online

>>> https://www.leafonly.com/index.php

this guy is basic.


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## Rook83 (Apr 8, 2013)

Ming on Mongo said:


> Thx, and understood re: the small holes & tears preventing a good 'seal' without the wrapper. Speaking of which, the 'entubado' method seems to make a lot of sense, especially for assembling a more 'controllable' blend. But does it also tend towards insuring a better 'draw' than say, 'book' bunching?
> 
> BTW, I kinda got hooked on Bezuki leaf on a trip to Indonesia, so if I do go for 'aesthetics', that'll be my first choice for a wrapper. And I gather from previous posts, that it's fairly 'versatile' and actually doesn't seem to interfere with the other blends that much? If not, what does it seem to pair well with?


Never had the Bezuki leaf, but always been interested...honestly, I haven't rolled in more than 7 or 8 months or so...I even left my molds and everything in my parent's garage...entubado is probably the best method for draw and thickness, but it is super difficult for me...our friend @Gdaddy has some vids and his way works great...I've had a few of his hand rolled gars and there weren't any draw issues...mine were hit or miss...some were great, some were tight as hell...anyways, check out his youtube vids...


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## Ming on Mongo (May 15, 2015)

What did you find the most difficult about entubado bunching? Mostly seems like just hand rolling some 'straws' and bundling them together in whatever thickness and order you prefer. Is it about getting the right leaf moisture and 'hand' that'll 'cooperate'?

BTW, what happened… lack of time and opportunity, or did you decide to quit puffin' for awhile? Although I'd be mighty proud of any of your 'product' so far!

Of course I also have no shortage of "projects" that I've gotten into out of curiosity or whatever, only to discover there are some things I'm better off leaving to the "pros" (including several expensive 'lessons' in shade-tree car repairs…lol)!


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## elco69 (May 1, 2013)

Where do you guys get your supplies, like the different tobacco leaves etc.? How does it taste? Do they need rest like regular cigars?


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## Gdaddy (Sep 20, 2012)

elco69 said:


> Where do you guys get your supplies, like the different tobacco leaves etc.? How does it taste? Do they need rest like regular cigars?


Langos has the site listed above for all your supplies.

The cigars are excellent if you put the right blend together. Whole leaf sells a kit with the blend already for you to roll.

They are made from top quality aged tobacco. After rolling they should rest for a couple of weeks.

The cigar is your cigar. You can make it as strong or weak as you want. You can even leave off the wrapper if you so decide. If you like working with your hands then you should really give this a try. In no time you'll be surprised how good a cigar you can roll. If you need help and have questions then just ask.


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## Gdaddy (Sep 20, 2012)

Ming on Mongo said:


> What did you find the most difficult about entubado bunching? Mostly seems like just hand rolling some 'straws' and bundling them together in whatever thickness and order you prefer. Is it about getting the right leaf moisture and 'hand' that'll 'cooperate'?
> 
> BTW, what happened&#8230; lack of time and opportunity, or did you decide to quit puffin' for awhile? Although I'd be mighty proud of any of your 'product' so far!
> 
> Of course I also have no shortage of "projects" that I've gotten into out of curiosity or whatever, only to discover there are some things I'm better off leaving to the "pros" (including several expensive 'lessons' in shade-tree car repairs&#8230;lol)!


Most cigars are mass produced. There is a difference between 'hand made' and 'hand rolled'. Hand made is rolled using a Lieberman machine. Most cigar manufacturers use this to speed production. The consistency from cigar to cigar will vary. However, when you smoke a hand rolled cigar made 'entubado' style it is a unique and different experience. The draw can be adjusted to exactly how you like them. I haven't had a too tight of a draw in a couple of years (except when I buy a factory cigar).

Cigar rolling takes some practice and some basic knowledge but you can produce great cigars fairly quickly. It's not rocket science.


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## Ming on Mongo (May 15, 2015)

Yeah, had first seen those gizmos and if you look around, there are even some relatively inexpensive ones available, essentially oversized and glorified cigarette rolling machines (and probably fine if you're rolling scraps or 'mixed' filler). But the 'not rocket science' part did became pretty obvious, especially when I saw the video clip of the old cuban fellow who'd been a longtime torcedore, where he just quickly rolled an impromptu one up against his thigh, bit off the end and fired it right up… no triple cap, no wrapper, no 'toasting', no nuthin'!

To be sure, like most apparently 'simple' things, there's obviously still a tremendous amount of art required to do it well, especially starting with quality ingredients. And being an 'experimental' sort, I've ordered a variety from Leaf Only, mostly 'cuz they also allow quarter pound 'samples' (or even a single leaf), in order to satisfy my curiosity, including:
• Brazilian Havana Viso
• Indonesian Bezuki
• Cameroon Seco
• Indonesian Sumatra Seco
• CT 1-LS Broadleaf
• Ecuadorian Viso
• and several different kinds of Fronto & Grabba leaf to experiment with for binder, wrappers and a bit of ligero.

Also ordered their vanilla tobacco flavoring, and from an e-juice (vape) supplier, I managed to find a remarkably close match for DE's Kuba Kuba flavor. Of course the 'application' is gonna be the interesting part, and will post some pics here with an eval. of the 'first born' as soon as everything arrives.

But again, my thanks to you folks here, with this really comprehensive thread for "lighting the way"!


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## langos (Mar 1, 2011)




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## langos (Mar 1, 2011)




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## Ming on Mongo (May 15, 2015)

Please Marc, tell us more…?!!!


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## langos (Mar 1, 2011)

For some reason I'm into replicating LFD limited productions. got some boxes, some tobacco and now I'm hooked. can't get enough !


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## Gdaddy (Sep 20, 2012)

Beautiful work!! An excellent example of hand crafted cigars. 

Just think how good they will smoke knowing YOU rolled them.

Thanks for posting!!


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## Wbrian (Sep 11, 2012)

I just want to thank everyone who has posted on this thread before my iPad dies. I'm at 8% battery now after starting reading the thread yesterday, last night in bed (not on a charger) and now finishing it. A couple years ago, I rolled about a dozen dog rockets. The burn was horrible, but the flavor was decent. Might just pull out what I have around and see about starting again. It sure would make 3-4 cigars a day more affordable,

Thanks again,
Brian


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## TravisNTexas (Aug 12, 2015)

Marc those are just incredible. Amazing work!


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## JDom58 (Jul 27, 2015)

Well Since this a roll your own thread, I thought this YouTube video would be quite appropriate from Don Pepin and Manny Irirate on how to roll a cigar, good Music also


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## langos (Mar 1, 2011)

A new tin on the cheap.









Mata Fina and San Vicenta core, Piloto Cubano viso/saco, W/ US Connecticut binder and Habano 2000 wrapper.


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## langos (Mar 1, 2011)




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## Randy956 (Dec 16, 2013)

I gotta try this...


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## langos (Mar 1, 2011)

Randy956 said:


> I gotta try this...


You should. You may like it. This forum has gone dry though. everyone went to (some other site)

Mod edit: We do not allow promoting other cigar forums on Puff! You are welcome here, though it appears from your 6+ year post count that you have not given Puff a fair shot to even know what goes on here. But if you prefer another site so much that you feel compelled to promote it on Puff, then why are you here instead of there?


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## bpegler (Mar 30, 2006)

langos said:


> You should. You may like it. This forum has gone dry though. everyone went to BOTL


No, they haven't. And you, sir, apparently know nothing about etiquette on an online forum.

Go shill your site elsewhere.


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## langos (Mar 1, 2011)

bpegler said:


> No, they haven't. And you, sir, apparently know nothing about etiquette on an online forum.
> 
> Go shill your site elsewhere.


My apologies. There has not been much rolling here in a while and I'm trying to help.

Let me spend some time and see where the rolling is here.


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## bpegler (Mar 30, 2006)

langos said:


> My apologies. There has not been much rolling here in a while and I'm trying to help.
> 
> Let me spend some time and see where the rolling is here.


Perhaps if you have some additional expertise, you might simply share it with the members here.

That's what we do on cigar boards...


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## Bird-Dog (Oct 16, 2009)

langos said:


> My apologies. There has not been much rolling here in a while and I'm trying to help.
> 
> Let me spend some time and see where the rolling is here.


There are sites dedicated to the art of cigar rolling. But the one you mentioned really isn't one of them. And certainly, neither is Puff.

Nonetheless, Puff has it's own special highlights, that of a growing community of cigar lovers who like to hang out together, make new friends, exchange info about what's smoking well and where the best deals are, help out Noobs, and generally focus on cigar smoking and storage. Home rollers are definitely welcome, but it's far from the forum's specialty.


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## langos (Mar 1, 2011)

bpegler said:


> Then post helpful posts. It's that simple.


My apologies again. I'm willing to learn preferred etiquette. You know I meant that the rollers left here, that's it. 
In searching here, no one has been rolling lately I've noticed. I'm willing to help here if needed. If not, just say so. I will refrain from posting the other site.


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## langos (Mar 1, 2011)

curmudgeonista said:


> There are sites dedicated to the art of cigar rolling. But the one you mentioned really isn't one of them. And certainly, neither is Puff.
> 
> Nonetheless, Puff has it's own special highlights, that of a growing community of cigar lovers who like to hang out together, make new friends, exchange info about what's smoking well and where the best deals are, help out Noobs, and generally focus on cigar smoking and storage. Home rollers are definitely welcome, but it's far from the forum's specialty.


Thank you. I would love to help in your missions where I can.


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