# ZK Bombings



## primetime76 (Feb 8, 2011)

Boy how times have changed....just a mere 8ish months ago Foster gathered a group of 22 (if I remember correctly) willing BOTL to take on Shuckins...and we did! 22 bombs landed on the master himself...it was a good time for a deserving BOTL. Spawned from that bombing run was my idea, the Zilla Killas...hell, if hitting Shuckins was that much fun, think about all of the other BOTL that we could hit with the same force! Thus, the Zilla Killas were born....we have been bombing ever since, trying to hit one BOTL per month (at minimum) as well as doing other individual hits. Fast forward those same 8 months and now we have The Zilla Killas, The Squids, The Legion of Boom, Team Infidel (part of the Squids),The Cigar Fellas...and I am sure that I am forgetting someone!

My take....it is played out. I have given SERIOUS consideration to leaving the ZK and going it on my own...showing appreciation to individual BOTL that have helped me in some way in the forums, and have not made my decision 100% yet. 

I have to agree with some of the FOGs on the site (thank you to Smelvis for calling it as he saw it in his "has the vibe changed" thread...it really got me thinking) in saying that all of these large scale group bombings back and forth between groups are getting a little tiring....there are tons of BOTL that are in the forums, that contribute every day that deserve recognition. 

So to answer a couple of probably questions:
Yes, the Zilla Killas will remain (with or without me) and will, on a rare occassion send out a bombing with 10+ packages.

The "bravado" or "dick measuring" will cease with the other groups (at least on my behalf) and I will personally target people when I feel like they deserve it, outside of the ZK (and hope that my brothers will do the same).
I just feel that bombs have lost their meaning....we are now bombing for the sake of bombing and it doesn't make sense....as much as we like to pretend that receiving a bomb "sucks" it is awesome and should be well thought out and heartfelt. Zk has one final bomb going out today and we will fulfill our committment to Thom (Short Fuse) to supply his soldiers at their post deployment party. We had a good run fellas...now is the time to get back to basics.


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## k-morelli (Jun 22, 2011)

very well said Kipp. "get back to the basics", everything these days gets so complicated and loses meanings.


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## max gas (Apr 11, 2011)

Well stated Kipp. I've heard other members of various groups state the same thing. As entertaining as the Shit talking can be, it has gotten a little excessive lately. I'm just as guilty as the next person for throwing jabs just to get someone worked up. It's time to take bombing back to it's basics, as a sign of appreciation and not whose group is bigger and can hit harder.


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## primetime76 (Feb 8, 2011)

Come on fellas...it is ok to comment in here. Open the dialogue! Lol


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## David_ESM (May 11, 2011)

Despite being a squid and trying to hit all the llamas as often as possible. I have seen the importance of spreading the love so to speak. Looking over my list it seems that at the time my packages went out (since some people later joined bomb groups) I am sitting at almost exactly 50/50 on my bombs to group members/non group members.

I'm happy with that number and will try to keep it similar moving forward.


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## kapathy (Nov 20, 2010)

The trash talk is fun...to a point, a little jab here and there is great but when it spans out to 75 pages of B.S. to the 1-2 meaningful pages its not longer amusing. I will continue my assault (if you can call it that) on whoever I feel, granted my last bombs have all been mostly aimed at squid but none were chosen simply becasuse of affiliation. I love to take part in the massive group efforts and look forward to the next one.


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## Scott W. (Jul 10, 2008)

Good move Kipp.....I applaud the decision.


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## Big Bull (Mar 22, 2011)

We at the "ZK Processing Center" stand behind our fearless leader!! Lets get back to basics folks.....


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## mcgreggor57 (Nov 3, 2011)

Does this mean there won't be pledge week in the near future? 

Voices of reason one and all.


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## primetime76 (Feb 8, 2011)

kapathy said:


> The trash talk is fun...to a point, a little jab here and there is great but when it spans out to 75 pages of B.S. to the 1-2 meaningful pages its not longer amusing. I will continue my assault (if you can call it that) on whoever I feel, granted my last bombs have all been mostly aimed at squid but none were chosen simply becasuse of affiliation. I love to take part in the massive group efforts and look forward to the next one.


Bingo Kevin...


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## zenom (Aug 30, 2011)

The funny thing is Kipp, you are the one usually doing most of the shit talking. I will admit that I did/do my fair share, especially when the Bomb Squids formed. it was only to stir the pot and to make things more entertaining. When it got old, I stopped. The thread died.

To me, so what if there is shit talking and fun involved in bombing. The bottom line is that a BOMB is a GIFT. Spontaneous, thoughtful a prank etc. It's a damn gift. People should appreciate it for that and that alone. Keep in mind too, that a lot of the bombing's here usually are by newbies, WHY? because they need to get themselves known to get into a "bomb squad" if they want too. I think everyone getting all dramatic over bombs is even more ignorant than just bombing. Don't participate if you don't like the shit talking...to me the shit talking is what makes the bombs fun. Now I for one am not one to go out and typically send 20-30 sticks in a bomb as I think that is overkill, but I would and have done it on rare occasions. 

To me if a group wants to send out mass bombing's so be it. Let them do it, it's their money. 

Plain and simple. A group or personal bomb should be a gift, regardless of the circumstance and for whatever reason the person wants to send the bomb. For instance, I never really cared for your online persona Kipp, but I felt it appropriate to send you the cigars I did from the heart and the tampon as a prank. It should be for whatever reason you want to send a bomb and that is no one else's business. 

Just my 2 cents.


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## primetime76 (Feb 8, 2011)

You are right Andy...and I am just sick of feeling that I have to keep it up because it just doesn't stop. Glad to hear how you really feel...thanks for being honest.


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## StogieNinja (Jul 29, 2009)

I think the bottom line is that some people felt the need to "keep up." Kipp's right, and others have also said this, that's when it stops being fun! Bombs should be sent because the sender wants to, not because of peer pressure, or a desire to keep up with the Joneses.

I'm going to keep sending bombs. There are a lot of deserving BotLs I have yet to Ninja! the sending of lots of bombs is not the issue. The issue I think others have had is the level of "intensity" that the recent "gang warfare" has brought.

So I'm going to keep sending bombs, and I'm going to keep trash talking, because as Andy said, it brings a lot of fun and entertainment to the forums. But I'm going to be much more cognizant of the way I trash talk, so those new to the forums don't get the wrong idea.

I've thought about this a lot, and it's obvious to me how outsiders and noobs could see all of this as a closed circle of insiders who are all trying to prove they're more generous than the next guy. Obviously that's not the case - we do this because we like and we respect each other! So, I'm going to be much more careful how I put things to ensure others looking in understand just how brotherly all of this really is.

The solution to the problem is not to quit bombing. Bombing has a much greater upside than downside for this community! It's simply to take a step back, get some perspective, and then just make sure what the _way_ we're bombing and trash talking is helping this great community of ours.


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## Oldmso54 (Jul 31, 2010)

mcgreggor57 said:


> Does this mean there won't be pledge week in the near future?
> 
> Voices of reason one and all.


I'm organizing a sorority pledge in the near future Gregg ... pre requisites are young, pretty and willing to .... well Ill get to that part later. Unfortunately - dont think you qualify. But any who meet the criteria are welcome to start applying (photos accepted)

PS: this was just an attempt to bring a little humor and levity to the topic (no harm intended)


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## zenom (Aug 30, 2011)

The thing that I think is funny about this thread, is that some of you were the ones that were talking the most shit when other bombing groups started or even when I sent 4 bombs. About how you were "elite" etc. I think some of you should really look in the mirror. I agree that it should not be a "bigger is better" contest. I mess with you guys about the bombs you send because it's fun (and because even as the first post says about foster getting 22 people, to me that is a bigger is better comment). But at the same time some of you are the ones who made it look like it was a an "elite" club to begin with. To me if you wanted bombs to be more personal you wouldn't have joined or started ZK from the get go. Maybe that is why guys like Shuckins, Smelvis etc., have the respect they have. I remember when I started bombing I asked how to get into a group and was like "gotta make yourself known as a bomber" etc. From a newbie in bombing, people have asked me and I told them the same thing "bomb and you will be noticed", why? Because that is what I was told. If you guys truly want to change the "bombing" mentality, then I hope you truly live by what you are saying on the forums here right now, otherwise it's all BS anyway.

Just friggin bomb if you want to, stop letting it get to you. Just because you bomb and talk shit doesn't mean you can't be a helpful member of the community. All of this just seems to me like a big cry for help or something. It should be a brotherhood. If someone reads the forums and takes the jokes personal or whatever, then to me that is their problem. Just as it is mine if I don't like how puff runs the site, how squids handle business etc. Just participate or don't. Bottom line.


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## zenom (Aug 30, 2011)

Let me just add something here too...because some of this is just too damn funny. When you look at LOB's professor chaos thread, a good number of ZK post in there talking about how boring it is, talking smack etc. When our group bomb I can guarantee went to deserving BOTL's and not just one. So it's funny to see this thread a day after we launched our attack and shit was being talked in that thread alone. 

Just keep that in mind when you think about "change". I don't care wether we shit talk or not, so to me it's pointless just pointing out the double sided nature of this thread.


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## StogieNinja (Jul 29, 2009)

Andy, I get what you're saying. Agree with a lot of it. There's a lot of knee-jerk reaction going on. But a lot of that I think is related to some of us taking a step back and looking at things from someone else's point of view. Dave (smelvis) got us all thinking about why we do this. Obviously we do it to make someone's day. So when we were told "hey...y'all might have derailed a bit", it got us thinking, and that thinking has cause some of us to realize we'd come across the wrong way, and in some ways have caused effects we never intended. such as the elitism you felt when you joined. We never should have made you feel that way! 

I do a lot of trash-talking. As I said before, I fully intend to continue it, but with just a little more attention to how it comes off. The Squids have no plans to discontinue bombing great BotLs. The fun is going to continue for sure! 

But hopefully, as I also said before, all of this dialogue will lead to us continuing with the intended positives (the camraderie, the entertainment, the fun of making someone else's day) without the unintended negatives (the elitism, the exclusivism, etc). 

We don't need to stop having fun by any means. We just need to be a bit more intentional, and we can continue to build a great community.


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## zenom (Aug 30, 2011)

Derek, 
I like you and Kipp and all the others who talk shit. But my bottom line is, the biggest shit talkers probably should have just walked the walk, instead of making a "whoa is me" kinda thread, that's all. Definitely don't post in smelvis' thread, then the next day or same day talk shit in someone else's. It's just silly. If you want to make a change, do it. I agree with Smelvis and the concept, it's not that I have the problem with. I have a problem with the people who are being the "poster children" for the whole convo. Period.

If you don't want to talk shit, DON'T. If you feel like you need to bomb more than others and you don't want to DON'T. If you want to help other cigar smokers, DO IT. To me I enjoy the shit talking. To me it beats a day at the office working. It's fun, so is sharing cigars wether in a bomb or in person. Again, I think the perspective and the people who are the cheering section are what is leaving a bitter taste.


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## sweater88 (Jul 31, 2011)

Man....you guys think a lot...I stopped paying attention when I started daydreaming about sorority pledges...thanks a lot Shawn


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## StogieNinja (Jul 29, 2009)

zenom said:


> But my bottom line is, the biggest shit talkers probably should have just walked the walk, instead of making a "whoa is me" kinda thread, that's all.


You're right, actions speak much louder than words, and will ultimately be more important than anything said right now. But, I think the dialogue is healthy for the community, and I don't think the tone has been one of "woe is me", but more along the lines of "hey, this got me thinking, let's talk about how we can improve things."



zenom said:


> Derek... If you want to make a change, do it. I agree with Smelvis and the concept, it's not that I have the problem with. I have a problem with the people who are being the "poster children" for the whole convo. Period.


Fair enough. Though I'm not trying to be a poster child for anything, as I said above, I simply think the dialogue is healthy. But you're right... instead of talking, I should just make the change. That's fair statement, and one I intend to put to use.


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## ProbateGeek (Oct 13, 2010)

I've recently and inadvertently gotten busy, both at work and at home, so have spent many MANY days away from the cigar bomb threads, and the forum in general (I do pop into "chat" when I'm smoking, and it's good times there). I would guess it's been almost a month since I was anywhere near active on these threads.

I will say, having read some of the "vibe" post by smelvis, and some of the subsequent fallout, that coming back to the threads after quite a long break I in fact HAVE noticed a change, especially compared to even what the cigar bomb environment looked like last summer. Things always change, and of course not all of it is good. But not all of it is bad either. I do think it's good to step back and take stock, and then act on any new insights gained.

I guess the only thing constructive I might add is that we might want to amend the "all about bombing" sticky to forewarn any newbies or casual observers that the banter one encounters here is all in good fun, and that the cliques that are seemingly warring with one another are really just friends showing respect for the "other teams" in a way peculiar to this fine community. 

Dunno. I'm tired, and thought I had something more to say. If the apparent fighting and excessive (to some) "smack talk" is not right for this community, my guess is that in the end it will die off, and this great ship will right itself. 

Perhaps that's what's happening now. 

But in the meantime, continue watching your mailboxes, and keep your heads low boys! :ss


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## Danfish98 (Jun 5, 2011)

I've debated back and forth all day as to whether I should respond to this thread. My initial reaction was anger as (and I don't mean this in a mean way, this is just the way it is) I always have felt Kipp has been the ring leader of the trash talk on Puff. I think this may be an overreaction in the opposite direction. I have felt at times that the trash talk has gone to far. The main time I can think of Shawn stepped in and said something and that was the end of it. I definitely think we need to keep any of the talk solely in the bomb forum (for the most part we do, but I can think of a couple occasions where we didn't and that shouldn't happen). What has concerned me lately is the new guys that feel they have to try to outdo the veterans on here and in many cases the new guys are also young college guys. Bombing is expensive and when you start trying to 1 up each other it gets extremely expensive. We need to encourage people to be generous, but not to overstretch themselves. The last thing I want to see is one of my Puff friends to into bankruptcy because of trying to keep up with the Jones' when it comes to bombing. I think we need to make sure we let everyone know that the trash talk is all in good fun and we all are friends here and we need to make sure we don't encourage people to go beyond their means. This is the most generous group of people I've ever come across and I've had more fun in the past couple months here than I've had in a long time.


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## Cigar Noob (May 22, 2011)

Never been a big fan of the shit talk and I really don't engage in it. But, I don't have an issue with people that do, I just ignore many of the posts/threads. I do find some irony that the poster boy of the trash talk chose not to just stop doing it, or tone it down.... but to make an announcement about it.


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## Vicini (Oct 10, 2010)

zenom said:


> Let me just add something here too...because some of this is just too damn funny. When you look at LOB's professor chaos thread, a good number of *ZK post in there talking about how boring it is*, talking smack etc. When our group bomb I can guarantee went to deserving BOTL's and not just one. So it's funny to see this thread a day after we launched our attack and shit was being talked in that thread alone.
> 
> Just keep that in mind when you think about "change". I don't care wether we shit talk or not, so to me it's pointless just pointing out the double sided nature of this thread.


yup I said it's boring cause it is. All this "I'm gonna hide my address so people don't know it's me bombing" is lame. 007. unibomber, professor chaos all lame. A bomb is a great thing and one should be proud to have sent something to a deserving BOTL.

As for shit talking it's gonna happen on any forum and as it is generally light hearted and joking around it is easy to get caught up in the "My dick is bigger" type stuff just try to keep in perspective that at the end of the day it's all about giving to one another ether to say "thank you for your help" or to say "Try this" or just to say "Welcome to the community"


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## Cigar Noob (May 22, 2011)

Vicini said:


> ... just try to keep in perspective that at the end of the day it's all about giving to one another ether to say "thank you for your help" or to say "Try this" or just to say "Welcome to the community"


:nod: very well said.


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## primetime76 (Feb 8, 2011)

Sorry for the short reply...will elaborate when I vet on a pc and off ky phone...but good discussion last night. I tend to agree with Derek on this and feel as though he really gets what I am saying...thanks bro. And yes Andy...you will see much less shit talk from me going forward. I won't stop completely, but it will not be in every damn thread.


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## zenom (Aug 30, 2011)

Vicini said:


> yup I said it's boring cause it is. All this "I'm gonna hide my address so people don't know it's me bombing" is lame. 007. unibomber, professor chaos all lame. A bomb is a great thing and one should be proud to have sent something to a deserving BOTL.
> 
> As for shit talking it's gonna happen on any forum and as it is generally light hearted and joking around it is easy to get caught up in the "My dick is bigger" type stuff just try to keep in perspective that at the end of the day it's all about giving to one another ether to say "thank you for your help" or to say "Try this" or just to say "Welcome to the community"


It wasn't just you Dennis. There were multiple ZK in the thread talking smack, so was not directed at you particularly. Just FYI.


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## primetime76 (Feb 8, 2011)

Aninjaforallseasons said:


> You're right, actions speak much louder than words, and will ultimately be more important than anything said right now. But, I think the dialogue is healthy for the community, and I don't think the tone has been one of "woe is me", but more along the lines of "hey, this got me thinking, let's talk about how we can improve things."
> 
> Fair enough. Though I'm not trying to be a poster child for anything, as I said above, I simply think the dialogue is healthy. But you're right... instead of talking, I should just make the change. That's fair statement, and one I intend to put to use.


That is exactly it Derek...it is about improvement for the forum as a whiole...not leaving anyone out of the "fun" that would like to join. I can tell you right now, with 100% certainty that we WILL lose key members of this forum if we continue on the path that we have created. I was speaking to a member on Puff (but we were on a different forum at the time) about another Puff member who was also on that other forum...and he up and left because of the cliques and the tone that the site took on with new members. Now, this site is significantly more than 1-2 people, but part of the charm of Puff is having access to these people, their knowledge, their generosity, their experience and I, for one, do not want to risk losing that part of the forums.

The best idea that I have heard so far is to impliment a restriction on the bombing forum....you have to wait 3 months and 100 posts to access addresses, why not have it be the same to access the forum? I would allow access to the bombing stickies so that noobs can get a feel for what it is supposed to be all about, but no access to the actual shit talking squids vs lobsters vs llama threads until they meet that criteria. Of course, we could still bomb the ever loving crap out of noobs, but they wouldn't be able to post in the "bomb" section. I don't know...just trying to bring a little civility back to the forums (and to myself) and make the forums a morte inviting place for EVERYONE...not just those of us that shit talk.


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## zenom (Aug 30, 2011)

primetime76 said:


> Sorry for the short reply...will elaborate when I vet on a pc and off ky phone...but good discussion last night. I tend to agree with Derek on this and feel as though he really gets what I am saying...thanks bro. And yes Andy...you will see much less shit talk from me going forward. I won't stop completely, but it will not be in every damn thread.


Kipp see brother, this is what is confusing for me about this whole thing.



> The "bravado" or "dick measuring" will cease with the other groups (at least on my behalf) and I will personally target people when I feel like they deserve it, outside of the ZK (and hope that my brothers will do the same).





> And yes Andy...you will see much less shit talk from me going forward. I won't stop completely, but it will not be in every damn thread.


Either you are or you are not. Either way I don't care, it's just the whole starting a thread about it all that leaves me going WTF? I agree about bombs, smelvis' point etc. But again if someone want's to bomb 20 cigars, there should be no reason for feeling you need to keep up with anyone else. Sometimes you buy a big gift for someone at Christmas and other times a small one. It all works out in the end.


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## primetime76 (Feb 8, 2011)

zenom said:


> Kipp see brother, this is what is confusing for me about this whole thing.
> 
> QUOTE]
> 
> Andy, I am not sure what you are confused about...I am stopping posting in every thread about you guys or the Squids sending out "dog rockets" or posting about how it is boring....thing slike that. Because, hell, it isn't boring and I was doing it solely to get a rise out of you other groups. Bombing is a GREAT thing and I am going to start treating it as such...I am done with the "your bombs aren't good" (even though it was always said in jest). Nobody on here is an "enemy" even as part of a "rival" (though I hate to use that term in this thread) group. So I guess to sum it up...you will be hearing more positive things from me...less shit talking and more contributions to the site as a whole as opposed to 95% bomb banter.


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## szyzk (Nov 27, 2010)

primetime76 said:


> The best idea that I have heard so far is to impliment a restriction on the bombing forum....


Just a few observations, since you brought it up...

I mentioned to a few people as early as June that I was seeing a lot of "entitlement" from some Puffers. Some newbies were showing up and either trying to goad established members into bombing them (which I found very rude) or they were giving attitude when they didn't receive bombs (which is equally as rude).

Not that any of you guys were/are doing anything wrong, but it seems to me like "outsiders" were coming in, seeing pages and pages of packages being sent out and the large focus that is put on that section of the board by you zoo groups, forming some unrealistic expectations from this community, and completely missing the reason why bombing exists. Of course, all of that could be avoided if people would read the informative "All About Bombing" thread started by Blaylock, but we already know that many people jump right into the fire without first taking a look around.

I should also say that I haven't seen as much of that entitlement the last month or two, but my participation here has dropped so maybe I'm missing a lot of it.


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## primetime76 (Feb 8, 2011)

szyzk said:


> Just a few observations, since you brought it up...
> 
> I mentioned to a few people as early as June that I was seeing a lot of "entitlement" from some Puffers. Some newbies were showing up and either trying to goad established members into bombing them (which I found very rude) or they were giving attitude when they didn't receive bombs (which is equally as rude).
> 
> ...


Dude....I completely agree...and I was one of the worst. Shit talking and trying to create an elitist atmosphere with the creation of the Zilla Killas...saying things like "best of the best" "elite bombing group" and things like that...shit, we weren't any better than anyone else who sends a bomb and it is long over due to start acting like it. Dave's post really opened my eyes to it...and I felt bad...almost a little sick that I helped create an atomsphere that we were excluding people and making people feel bad (or worse, having feelings of "goading" others into bombing them). I, myself, am over it...I will remain with ZK but we are COMPLETELY restructuring the way we do things...if someone wants to join the board room, let me know and you are invited...but realize that things are going to be much less structured going forward and I am going to focus on hitting people that I want to show appreciation to, whether it is a "ZK hit" or not.

As far as I (persoanlly) am concerned...the rivalry is dead. I will wish all the bombing groups continued success and happiness in their endeavors .

I like to compare the current bombing climate to Extreme Make Over, Home Edition...they do a world of good and build one tremendous house for a very deserving family...when they could build 10 modest homes for 10 deserving families.


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## bcannon87 (Sep 8, 2010)

primetime76 said:


> I like to compare the current bombing climate to Extreme Make Over, Home Edition...they do a world of good and build one tremendous house for a very deserving family...when they could build 10 modest homes for 10 deserving families.


Kipp, very well said brother! I think this thread along with Smelvis' thread will open alot of eyes and help get the bombings back to a "back to basics" feel. So I would like to say thank you to you and Dave.


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## szyzk (Nov 27, 2010)

Just to clarify, Kipp, and to state this again so I'm clear to anyone else reading this: I wasn't saying that any of the zoo groups were doing anything wrong. Far from it. I simply noticed a few newer members acting like they expected bombs just for being here, as opposed to getting a bomb because they contributed something that other members found "bomb-worthy".

I think one of the unintended consequences of the bomb section being so active (and the bomb-talk spilling over into other areas of the forums) was that people were getting the wrong idea about why bombing exists. I think it's completely awesome that so many people could get together to show appreciation to other members, and while I know you zoo groups did everything for all the right reasons the hype seemed to sweep up a lot of people.

All of that said, I have some Christmas bombs going out next week so... BOOOOOOM!!! I'm as guilty as the rest of you knuckleheads!!!


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## Swany (Aug 20, 2010)

I like this thread. It takes a real man to admit when he's wrong. Good job Kipp. You know, when I got back from my deployment last spring, I got back on Puff, and saw all this ZK stuff, with the banter htreads. It was fun, I found a couple of guys to join me and we blew them up. Than they destroyed me. Good times. But yeah, for a cigar forum to go from mostly about teaching, helping and just talking about the one thing we ALL have in common, burning of tobacco, to a complete bomb campaign, well, it's very hard to keep up with. We have brothers losing loved ones, sick families, more important problems, and the most posted in part is the dang ol bomb threads. So once again, good job Kipp for adding this with Smelvis' thread. Now, Im smoking a My Father Le Bijou 1922 with some swamp head midnight oil to drink. OUTSTANDING combination. Anyways...


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## Staxed (Oct 16, 2011)

primetime76 said:


> The best idea that I have heard so far is to impliment a restriction on the bombing forum....you have to wait 3 months and 100 posts to access addresses, why not have it be the same to access the forum? I would allow access to the bombing stickies so that noobs can get a feel for what it is supposed to be all about, but no access to the actual shit talking squids vs lobsters vs llama threads until they meet that criteria. Of course, we could still bomb the ever loving crap out of noobs, but they wouldn't be able to post in the "bomb" section. I don't know...just trying to bring a little civility back to the forums (and to myself) and make the forums a morte inviting place for EVERYONE...not just those of us that shit talk.


I've intentionally made it a point to stay out of this thread, as well as Smelvis' thread simply because I am still a Noob around here and I haven't been hugely involved in any of the stuff going on, and of course don't know how the site has 'changed' since I haven't been here that long. But I just had to state one thing after reading this particular post.

This is not the best idea, it's probably one of the worst. Limiting something like the bombing atmosphere from noobs would do nothing but increase this 'elite' gap that is trying to be fixed. Everyone that joins this website is an adult, and as much as it's nice that people are concerned about the financial welfare of others...it's their choice if they want to bomb or not, so trying to limit the ability of a person new to the site to even see the bombing forum...I just don't think that's right.

There are people that see the 3 month, 100 day limit on addresses and decide they will wait for that, then there are others that think it looks pretty fun, manage to get some address, and think it would be nice to send a few bombs to people they think deserve them from their limited time on the site. Personally (and of course because I was one of those people so I'm a little biased), I think this makes it easier for someone to get involved if that is the way they choose to do it.

I fully agree on the time limits in place for the CC section and the Trades/etc section, but placing that type of limit on the bombing forum...I don't see anything good about that, and certainly nothing that would help solve this 'elite' rift that is trying to be squashed at the moment.

p.s....if it matters any, I never got a feeling of rudeness or anything from the smack talk when I joined, quite the opposite...I immediately could tell that it was friendly banter between groups of people that respected each other. But that could also just be because of my huge background in smacking in other games/sites for the same reason.

In the end, I'm not getting involved on either side of the arguement/discussion because I can agree with both sides...but as a noob, I just needed to put it out there that trying to place more limits on people new to the site isn't going to solve anything. The number 1 thing I've had a problem coming to grips to since I've joined is not smack talk or people being rude, etc...it's been the separation between 'noob' and 'FOGs'. Not everyone new to a website is 18 and just started smoking, and I think some people that have been here for a while forget that at times. If I had one thing to mention about the biggest flaw I've seen (and even at that it's a tiny flaw), it would be that.


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## foster0724 (Jun 9, 2010)

I can't believe that a simple thing I organized 8 or so months ago to kind of recognize all that Shuckins does for the forum has turned into all this BS. Kipp- after that mass bombing, you took the bull by the horns and asked everyone to ride along with you. Then the bull starts running in the wrong direction and you jump off and post it in public forums. Just remember, you had the reigns and were doing all the steering.


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## David_ESM (May 11, 2011)

I'm really confused at all the hostility evident in this thread.

I'm not going to get preachy or ramble on in this one. As far as I am concerned every ZK member has given far more to this community then anyone could expect. Despite any opinions regarding trash talking, or attitudes or any other crap, Kipp is right at the top of that list. With or without the ZK or any other groups, with or without trash talking, he is still gonna be up there at the top in my opinion.


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## StogieNinja (Jul 29, 2009)

I think two things need to be pointed out:

1. We _all_ got involved in the trash talk. And the trash talking is great fun! We just got a little carried away, that's all. But there's no reason to be upset at anyone. No one is doing anything wrong either before, or now. Dave brought up the fact that there was a new vibe, some of us thought about that, and now we're just dialoging about how to make our community better, that's all.

2. Every single one guy involved with the ZK, the Squids, Lobsters, Infidels, Mexi-cants, one-time bombers, noobs... whatever. We all got involved in the bombing and trash talk for two reasons - to create a fun place to be, and to make someone else's day! At the end of the day, that's what all this has been about, no one should have hurt feelings about anything.


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## primetime76 (Feb 8, 2011)

David_ESM said:


> I'm really confused at all the hostility evident in this thread.
> 
> I'm not going to get preachy or ramble on in this one. As far as I am concerned every ZK member has given far more to this community then anyone could expect. Despite any opinions regarding trash talking, or attitudes or any other crap, Kipp is right at the top of that list. With or without the ZK or any other groups, with or without trash talking, he is still gonna be up there at the top in my opinion.


...the feeling is 100% mutual bro.


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## zenom (Aug 30, 2011)

I think "hostility" is being confused with "honesty". I do not believe anyone has said Kipp or any other trash talker was not a viable part of the community. It was simply ironic that the person who trash talked to loudest, started a thread talking about tone it down. Plain and simple. As I said before, trash talk or don't. Participate in cigar bombs or don't etc. It really is that simple. Now back to our regularly scheduled broadcast. I hope you all had a great thanksgiving.


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## sdlaird (Mar 15, 2011)

Ok, OK, I will chime in.

Haven't been around all too long and am a proud member of the Squids. Here are my unsolicited thoughts.

Kipp, I respect and appreciate your original post and those that followed. As I see it, you are just a guy that is out therehaving fun and trying to do good things at the same time. Trash talk here about bombing is not really "trash talk", its bs, banter, cleverly worded faux insults directed at people who you actually like/respect/admire (fill in your word)

Some perceived that things got a little over the top. Maybe they did. Now both individuals and groups are reconsidering how they approach the bombing runs, to whom they send bombs, WHY they are sending bombs and finally, what they say about it. 

I see this as a good thing. Never hurts to take a look in the mirror and be self-critical. That is what Kipp did here and something we all should do avery once in a while with respect to life in general. I have done the same myself and have a different outlook on how I personally should approach bombs, the bomb threads, the banter etc.

I will remain a member of the Squids and proudly so! 

Remember, there is absolutely nothing wrong with getting together as a group to spread the joy of cigars. At its core, that is what the various factions are doing. The only real question is HOW. Now, we have some excellent examples in the form of Shuckins (and Zilla), and Smelvis whom we all know. 

There are others that I would like to acknowledge including Barefoot who put a lot of thought into challenging me with a blind sampler of "Tres Minutos", (I did my best to meet the challenge with a few reviews) Richterscale who simply offered up some samplers to anyone who was interested, I was and he obliged. All that he asked was that I make an effort to truly contribute to Puff. He did this via PM and did not publicize. I have done what I could to live up to his request, posting a few noob reviews and offering advice to others where I thought I could help FWIW (Also, I now have a genuine appreciation for La Aurora because of it and have gotten in a couple of splits) I have traded with 3Smokes who is local and I have met up with him a couple of times and enjoyed a good cigar and good conversation (I owe him a bomb or two, I haven't forgotten) Not an exclusive list and tere are others, just a few examples.

I have bombed and been bombed by some good folks and I fully intend to continue. I will also be more thoughtful about how I do it moving forward so that it hopefully brings people together and does not divide. 

Hope everybody enjoyed their Thanksgiving. Peace!


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## kozzman555 (Sep 10, 2011)

I don't like dick measuring contests....I never win 

For myself, Puff was manna sent from heaven (lol a slight exaggeration, but close enough). I'm a pretty competitive person and love giving gifts. Puff is a place that really seemed like it was made for me. Where else can you competitively gift people?? Puff provides a place for those of us that believe sharing cigars with others is one of the best parts about our hobby. Even before I was told about Puff, I liked to swap cigars and try new things out with friends. This forum broadened the ideas, selection, knowledge and friends that I have. Despite the fact that as of late, our bombs seemed to be dick measuring contests, look who they were going to. They were going to some of the best people and great contributors to this forum. The whole point of making the cigar groups or factions or whatever you want to call them, was so you could really nuke someone that had it coming. Not just to prove you could do it, but to spread a little cheer around. If you're going to have a dick measuring contest, sharing our love of cigars has to be the best way to do it. 

As far as the shit talking goes, I'm guilty. Probably one of the most guilty. I love shit talking. I'm a shit talker. I do it with people I respect and know it's all in good fun. That being said, I know it's not for everyone. Some people don't like it, and that's ok. However, I think a little of it livens up the place a bit. But that's just MHO

Having read this thread in it's entirety, I see one of the main points of concern being brought up is who the bombs are going to. Generally speaking anyone that's in a bombing group joins up because they are extremely generous and loves sharing their cigars with other people. I honestly can't think of anyone that I have bombed, whether it was a solo shot or part of a group bombing that didn't honestly deserve it. Generally, you don't get invited to a bombing group unless you have thrown out a few bombs already. For me at least, that means anyone in another bombing group is fair game for getting hit. 

Another concern is where the bombing groups are heading. What direction they are going in and if someone feels comfortable with it. That's a matter each person has to decide. Before I actually agreed to join the ZK I asked about it. Who do they bomb, how often, what all is involved with being part of the group, etc etc. That's something that should be done by everyone. Know what you are getting into before joining. And later on, should you think that maybe the group isn't going the direction you thought it was or bombing someone you maybe don't think should be bombed, then bring it up. Let's not forget, in spite of the occasional drama on here, we're all adults. There should be no reason that someone should feel pressured to do something, like send a bomb. As has been stated many times already, a bomb is a gift. You own your cigars and its a privilege when you share them. Despite all my rants and mutterings, I am very humbled when I get bombed. It's great knowing people think enough of you to spend the money and take the time to send you something that they hold dear. 

All in all, I think this whole dick measuring thing is a misnomer. No one sends bombs just to prove they are better than someone. They send them out of the kindness of their heart to people they respect. The competition factor is really an afterthought. I really can't think of a single bomb I've seen on my time on puff that was solely sent just to prove how awesome someone is. We need to take the shit talking for what it is, just shit talking by people that truly respect each other and the bombs for what they are. Gifts from the heart.


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## StogieNinja (Jul 29, 2009)

Well said, Kozz.


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## ProbateGeek (Oct 13, 2010)

:music:


kozzman555 said:


> ... The whole point of making the cigar groups or factions or whatever you want to call them, was so you could really nuke someone that had it coming.


Ha, silly me. I joined Derek and David naively harboring a mistaken assumption that there might actually be some safety in numbers. Little did I know...

:ss

Excellent post, Adam.


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## tpharkman (Feb 20, 2010)

The only thing I can think of at the moment is all the effort you guys put into those custom made avatars. My single request is that when you disband the groups can you replace all of your avatars with Hot Chicks???....lol!!!!!


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