# Humidification of Havanas - Wet Vs. Dry



## ESP (Jan 1, 2000)

I think the following article has been posted some years back, but since we have many new members, I thought you may enjoy reading this debate and the interesting fact that it has been going on for more than 80 years!

The site http://www.uk-cigars.co.uk/archives/wets.htm has other articles of interest (see archives),,

http://www.uk-cigars.co.uk/archives/wets.htm

happy reading!


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## LasciviousXXX (Oct 12, 2004)

Thanx for the informative reading's ESP!!

This will make a good discussion point when everyone has had a chance to read it.


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## Corona Gigante-cl (Sep 8, 2005)

TFTL. Very interesting piece.

The following statement surprised me.

_"I would say that 98 per cent of smokers prefer their cigars to be humidified. It does not alter the flavour, but it makes the cigars slightly pliable and springy -- much more manageable, that's the key.

"When cigars dry out, they can crack and break up and although the flavour is often not impaired, it affects most people's enjoyment of them." _

It negatively affects my enjoyment of a cigar when it is so dry that the wrapper cracks when I snip off the cap. Dealing with that flap of wrapper sticking to my lip everytime I take a draw is a pain.

OTOH, isn't it true that the drier the cigar, the faster the burn and the looser the draw? Although this might not, strictly speaking, affect the flavour of the cigar, it seems to me that the experience of smoking it will be very different.


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## stormin (Feb 11, 2005)

Very interesting. Thanks for the article.

I believe we make too much out of a few percentage points in humidity (myself included). People rigorously try to maintain the RH in their humidor to within 1 or 2 percentage points of what they believe is the ideal. 65% seems to be the most popular choice here @ CS. I maintain mine at close to 69%. Not because I disagree with 65%, just because with the combination of storage devices and humidity devices I am using, 69% (+/- 2%) seems to be what the atmosphere naturally gravitates towards. Anything more or less then that requires constant attention.

The results of blind taste tests are universally shocking in their inaccuracy. Can you imagine the results of a blind taste test set up to try and distinguish between differences in humidity? If we stored some cigars at 55%, 60%, 65% and 70%. Lets say 3 different cigars, 4 of each (one for each humidity level). The reviewer would smoke them and try to make an educated guess as to what humidity it was stored at and which ones they liked the best. The results would be very interesting and humbling. 

Good topic.


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## stogie_kanobie_one (Feb 9, 2006)

Very nice, there is a lot of interesting information on that site. Thanks.


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## sirwood (Aug 26, 2003)

Thanks for the link !

This statement caught my eye -
"It is as true today as it was then that to gain the full benefit from ageing and maturing, Havanas must be kept at a significantly lower humidity, no higher than 50%, and be allowed gradually to lose some of the moisture content which they contain when they are first imported."

??? First I have heard of this !
I have dry boxed a couple of cigars to try & free up the draw. This has worked to varied success, but I have noticed a 'harshness' that surprised me - I thought it was due to the reduced humidity/water content.

I store my cigars at 65%, and I like the feel & taste that comes from a humidified cigar.:w


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## drrgill (Jan 1, 2000)

Nice article and info. I like mine on the Moist side and feel like a kid with a new toy!! Went out today and got my Radio Shack remote Temp Hygrometer for $17.95. Lots of discussion this weekend about this item. I know my Cigars will taste better with this new toy!!

Gil


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## Diselfitter (May 20, 2006)

Nice Article. 

I have read a lot of the debate on this. Many prefer to keep the cigars around 63% while others contend they keep theirs at 70%... and everything in between. 

Some do it because thats what they learned form others, Other do because they have this belief in their mind that there is a true taste difference if kept at a lower rh. 

My Preference is really pretty simple. 

I keep my cigars stored and humidified so is that they keep. 
I don't want a dry cigar that cracks when I clip it, Nor do I want a cigar that is overly humidified that it is like clipping a sponge. 

I have two humidors set up, one where I keep the larger ring cigars, 47 ring gauge and up, and one where I keep lesser ring gauge cigars. 

I do this because On the larger ring gauge I found yes they tend to burn to hot when they are drier, and they could be a bit looser in the draw. So I bump up the rh just a little.. I can tweak it as I need to but generally where I live it is pretty arid, so I keep them around 68% rh

On the smaller ring gauge. I go just a touch lower...and I can tweak it as well if needed. 
the reason is I had too many cigars that seemed tight on the draw, while my larger ones smoked very well.. 
After separating them out. I made the adjustments and things seem fine, I have less tight draws. 
Plugged is plugged.. after trying every trick in the book.. I just tend to toss them, unless the plug is very near the head of the cigar, and I really want to smoke it. then I just loop off the plugged portion. 

Obviously there are extremes in both sides of this. 
too wet they are soggy and they tend to drip ...LOL 
seriously.. they tend to go out more frequently, and I have noticed some also build up in resin, giving an unpleasant taste toward the end of the smoke. 
Too dry, they crack, and split, burn hot, Kinda like smoking a cartoon cigar. 

I try not to make my hobbies complicated with a lot of theory, what not.. I do what works for me, and what I enjoy. 


Deez 

I think the bottom line is one has to find out what they like.


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## ESP (Jan 1, 2000)

IMO its good to remember the following when reading the said article:

1. DRY STYLE
First, I think the article is about the ideal conditions fr the long term (say over5 yrs of ag), and what's best to get the full flavors to peak. Not a simple side by side test, but a long and very inaccurate test since the variables and mixes to start with keep on changing from year to year,,

imo the drying out of the cigars by importers and distributors in the UK probably started as a measure to save money! The UK Custom & Excise taxes tobacco based on weight! (and a lots of £££’s that is). Therefore by drying out the cigars they (the importers) reduced one part of a very large sum they had to pay Her majesty’s Customs & Excise! And perhaps that somehow contributed to the later "Dry English style". Just imagine distributors back in the 1920’s sending out cigars to tobacconists that had no humidification devices to begin with! I think we can draw the conclusion as how the dry style developed. On one hand I have met a few of people who only smoked their cigars dry (God bless their soul! they now are looking from above!) but those cigars were matured minimum of 5 years and many were 10yrs and older, AND matured in full boxes (air tight) in low UK temps and RH around 55% - so there is a difference between those and a cigar that was left out to dry and lost its oils (or its soul)..

The other thing is that majority of tobacconists in the UK did not use humidification devices, so I assume receiving so called "dry cigars" say cured around 5 years at 55%RH and putting them in their glass top shelves was the normal practice – actually I know a few tobacconists that still carry no humidification devices in their glass top humidors and cigars taste just as good as when they come out of their walk-ins. But if you ever visited UK you would know that the whole country is like a giant humidor! most of the time the RH is above 60% and temperatures are also on the 40-60 DF range. So I figure (and still see in a few local shops I visit) in certain humidors that have no humidification devices, the cigars do just fine! My guess is that H&F brings the humidity back up before distribution. (I am not sure if they still dry out the cigars before weighing them for the tax man) but know for sure that they promote walk-in humidors and so on for their accounts. Basically the preference is to humidify because first it is easier to handle (it would not break or unravel during transport) and second due to the fact that most people like them better that way! (specially these days that tobacco business has no time – say 5 yrs – to age them cigars before putting them on shelves.

2. MATURING
Older the cigar the lower the humidity it holds. For instance the 15-20 yr old vintage cigars hold less water and feel dryer Vs. a younger cigar. For instance, after lighting a vintage cigar once it warms up and loosens a bit, it starts showing subtleties of its flavour, but most of the time not from the very start but after a few inches of ash developes – at least that’s most of my experience with them. I think cigars marked for long(er) term maturation should rest in a lower RH and Temp range (some people put the box or jar in zip lock bags to reduce the air flow even more) – basically there is a simple rule – the more air flow/temp/RH = faster maturation and the reverse is also true (i.e., the cooler and dryer and less air intake causes in slower maturation and many believe more flavors are preserved that way – but it shows only after cigars mature – say 5-7 yrs at least). For example more flavors survive in a 20yr old RyJ Tubos Vs, dress box, of course assuming same or similar aging conditions (say both came from lockers of a certain well established tobacconist). On the other hand, if you want to smoke a good RASS then keep them in the dress box in a 65-70 (RH/Temp) for 2 years and they will be just great, however if you got the extra cash, tuck away a few boxes in zip lock bags in say 60-60 (temp/RH) for 7-10 yrs and see the difference! The only problem is the obvious time/money problem that most of us are in need of one or another – or both!).

Of course there are always limits, imo the higher limit for RH is 72% and lower 55% as well as temp of 55-65 Farenhite. 

3. YOUNGONS
I have another problem: I also like them young! As a result I keep my stash in different RH ranges (the older ones in my basement at 55-60RH and the everyday smokes 65-70 plus my secret stash that shall remain that way – otherwise it may become ground for divorce - if my better half finds out where I have been hiding the children’s school fees!) . I also have a desktop kept at 70. But let me tell you, with all these blend changes, new special releases every year and all variables that go into this hand made and therefore varied-in-quality-to-begin-with product, then even with all trial and errors in the world, we can only take it one step at a time, and I have stopped guessing how long to age certain vitolas and when the cigar peaks. I just buy as many boxes as I can, set some aside, and keep on smoking from one box, if its sick, well I smoke another one in a month, if its good, I keep going… LOL  

There is also a theory that leads stores such as Davidoff setting the RH at 70-72 (it goes something like take out one degree of %RH for every year of age starting from 75%, e.g., a 3 yr old cigar rests at 72% RH – this is just from memory, I probably messed it up – please correct if you remember the source, otherwise just submit it to the memory for long term storage!)

Sorry folks for the long ramble, but figured this is a good topic and sharing our opinions once in a while IZGOOD!specially when we can only do the virtual herf! Yeah, I smoke mine here behind the keyboard and you listen and say $hit this guy loves the sound of his own voice (note to self: wish I could make it to the SOCAL Herf, this is the 7th year I am missing it – darn),,


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## mosesbotbol (Sep 21, 2005)

When Dunhill had a shop in Boston, they'd keep their cigars around 70%, I found them too humid for my taste, but they are more of an authority than I am, but I think the US conumer is looking for a humid cigar, where the real collector is not as likely to buy a single and smoke it right away.


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## Okee (Mar 31, 2005)

ESP said:


> I just buy as many boxes as I can, set some aside, and keep on smoking from one box, if its sick, well I smoke another one in a month, if its good, I keep going&#8230; LOL


I like the way you handle the ups and downs of this hobbie,(keep it simple).
A very enjoyable read.


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## ESP (Jan 1, 2000)

Okeechobeeman said:


> I like the way you handle the ups and downs of this hobbie,(keep it simple).
> A very enjoyable read.


Actually its not as simple as it seems, every time I smoked a cigar I used to keep a mental note as how great or terrible it was smoking, but after some years those mental notes got jumbled up and now I just take educated guesses!  
For example I have a theory on aging: imo cigars go through cyclical aging! (not as clear cut as MNR states! ) for example a 15 yr old vitola that tasted a bit sick (tannic, harsh) at one time and 3 months later the next one from the same box can smoke sublime without a hint of harshness,, I think cigars go through changes all the time, sometimes they offer loads of flavor, sometimes flat (sleep), and sometimes harsh, I guess it depends which flavor profile overshadows the others at each time. Of course when this song and dance is complete, like any other living organism, the cigars can also die! and taste like water,, Of course let's not forget the generalities such as sick period between 3mo and 1 yr (or 2 for some vitolas), after that there is the general consensus of 5-10 yrs that most cigars would reach a fullness and some say peak (imo that's at mid range RH/temps of 65/65), now you see why I just keep'on smoking regardless of all these crap theories! LOL


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## mosesbotbol (Sep 21, 2005)

ESP said:


> now you see why I just keep'on smoking regardless of all these crap theories! LOL


:tpd:

If you like the way it smokes, then smoke it; old or young. Don't let some guy in Hong Kong tell you either way. Sure he's an authority, but you are the one getting the enjoyment out of it, and that is why you are smoking the cigar to start with.


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## BP22 (Apr 13, 2006)

mosesbotbol said:


> :tpd:
> 
> If you like the way it smokes, then smoke it; old or young. Don't let some guy in Hong Kong tell you either way. Sure he's an authority, but you are the one getting the enjoyment out of it, and that is why you are smoking the cigar to start with.


Now that makes sense to me.


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## StudentSmoker (Apr 24, 2006)

stormin said:


> Very interesting. Thanks for the article.
> 
> I believe we make too much out of a few percentage points in humidity (myself included). People rigorously try to maintain the RH in their humidor to within 1 or 2 percentage points of what they believe is the ideal. 65% seems to be the most popular choice here @ CS. I maintain mine at close to 69%. Not because I disagree with 65%, just because with the combination of storage devices and humidity devices I am using, 69% (+/- 2%) seems to be what the atmosphere naturally gravitates towards. Anything more or less then that requires constant attention.
> 
> ...


:tpd:

I like to keep mine at 69% also, but that's only because it's my FAVORITE number. :r


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## ESP (Jan 1, 2000)

mosesbotbol said:


> :tpd:
> 
> If you like the way it smokes, then smoke it; old or young. Don't let some guy in Hong Kong tell you either way. Sure he's an authority, but you are the one getting the enjoyment out of it, and that is why you are smoking the cigar to start with.


I do have lots of respect for opinion of the guy in Hong Kong, I used to correspond with him before his book and also participated in a quiz he ran, but the answers he provided then was his and only his - and although I respect him or that (hey, it was his cigars he was giving away, so if he said frog's skin is not waterproof, well that was it! ) You see, having a few million $£ worth of cigars in one's cellar would widen the daily choice, but not necessarily make one the absolute God on some subjective matter such as personal taste and so on. I think his opinion - although very valuable - is just that: one BOLT's opinion where each of us has only one vote, and the strongest vote is that of ourselves! 
keeponsmking :w


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## drrgill (Jan 1, 2000)

I was in a meeting one time with 9 other people and the head guy said .." You know if we are all going to agree on everything then 9 of you dont need to be here"!!

I like em 70-75% I wish I could find some 75% Beads for my every day smokes. My aging station...Coolerdor 65-70%. I guess this all goes back to why they make more than one kind of cigar.

Drrgill


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## Corona Gigante-cl (Sep 8, 2005)

drrgill said:


> I was in a meeting one time with 9 other people and the head guy said .." You know if we are all going to agree on everything then 9 of you dont need to be here"!!


Is he an engineer? Sound like it.

An optimist thinks the glass is half full.

A pessimist thinks the glass is half empty.

An engineer thinks the glass twice as big as it needs to be.


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## sirwood (Aug 26, 2003)

Corona Gigante said:


> Is he an engineer? Sound like it.
> An optimist thinks the glass is half full.
> A pessimist thinks the glass is half empty.
> An engineer thinks the glass twice as big as it needs to be.


HEY - what's with the engineer joke ?!?
The glass is clearly too big!


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## HeavySmoke (Apr 9, 2006)

StudentSmoker said:


> :tpd:
> 
> I like to keep mine at 69% also, but that's only because it's my FAVORITE number. :r


:r Well timed, that was awesome. Hahahahaa


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## n2advnture (Aug 9, 2004)

Interesting article but I don't know of anyone who doesn't humidify their cigars in one sense or another. (eg, people in humid climmates do "add" humidity because their ambient conditions don't require it).

The largest debate doesn't seem to be whether or not to humidify but at which RH level is best.

It has been my experience (16+ years in the hobby) that 65% RH is the best all around RH level. (I have been storing/aging cigars at 65% RH for nearly 10 years now) 70% is just too wet for a majority of cigars which creates burn, draw and to some extent flavor problems.

Sometimes...even 65% is a bit too much so I will on ocassion dry box for a few days prior to smoking.

Great post bro

~Mark


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## chibnkr (May 2, 2007)

I prefer my cigars a bit on the "wetter" side believe it or not. I usually shoot for 67/66% RH.


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## mosesbotbol (Sep 21, 2005)

I go for 60-65% at best. I think my Aristocrat shuts off at 65%. Never any burn problems or damaged cigars.


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## 68TriShield (May 15, 2006)

chibnkr said:


> I prefer my cigars a bit on the "wetter" side believe it or not. I usually shoot for 67/66% RH.


Older cigars are sometimes more fragile too imo.I think thats cheap insurance in your case Mike.I believe its a prudent move on your part


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## n2advnture (Aug 9, 2004)

chibnkr said:


> I prefer my cigars a bit on the "wetter" side believe it or not. I usually shoot for 67/66% RH.


That does surprise me a bit M, do you age them at the same as well?

~Mark


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## chibnkr (May 2, 2007)

n2advnture said:


> That does surprise me a bit M, do you age them at the same as well?
> 
> ~Mark


I do keep all my boxes and sticks at the same RH. Every humidor is set to 66/67% (I say 66/67% because I generally get a variance of 66% at the bottom and 67% at the top for my MXT-Plus). Honestly, I do find it hard to believe that the difference between 65% and 67% will have any impact on long-term aging. I mean, keep in mind that even the most precise, calibrated digital hygrometer that I use has a margin of error of +/- 1% RH, and that margin of error increases at the extremes (i.e., it is larger when the RH approaches 0% and 100%). And this is a "certified" unit. Most people just use a standard digital hygrometer. These generally have a larger margin of error. So, even if you think you are set to 65% you might actually be at 63% or 67%...


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## n2advnture (Aug 9, 2004)

chibnkr said:


> I do keep all my boxes and sticks at the same RH. Every humidor is set to 66/67% (I say 66/67% because I generally get a variance of 66% at the bottom and 67% at the top for my MXT-Plus). Honestly, I do find it hard to believe that the difference between 65% and 67% will have any impact on long-term aging. I mean, keep in mind that even the most precise, calibrated digital hygrometer that I use has a margin of error of +/- 1% RH, and that margin of error increases at the extremes (i.e., it is larger when the RH approaches 0% and 100%). And this is a "certified" unit. Most people just use a standard digital hygrometer. These generally have a larger margin of error. So, even if you think you are set to 65% you might actually be at 63% or 67%...


I re-read my post and it sounded a little "know it all" but wasn't intended as such by any means. I'm the dumbest guy I know 

I totally agree and think people tend to focus TOO much on keeping an RH level even withing 5%, my surprise was if someone asked me what do you think CB stored his smokes in, I would have guess low 60s (60-63) and not higher 60s (66/67) :tu in which case I think there would be a difference.


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## chibnkr (May 2, 2007)

n2advnture said:


> I re-read my post and it sounded a little "know it all" but wasn't intended as such by any means. I'm the dumbest guy I know
> 
> I totally agree and think people tend to focus TOO much on keeping an RH level even withing 5%, my surprise was if someone asked me what do you think CB stored his smokes in, I would have guess low 60s (60-63) and not higher 60s (66/67) :tu in which case I think there would be a difference.


No worries at all, and I didn't think your post sounded at all like a know-it-all. I guess my summary is, IMHO, mid-sixties is ideal. Plus or minus a percent or two shouldn't make much difference.


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## Harpo (Oct 11, 2007)

Corona Gigante said:


> It negatively affects my enjoyment of a cigar when it is so dry that the wrapper cracks when I snip off the cap. Dealing with that flap of wrapper sticking to my lip everytime I take a draw is a pain.


Argh, my #1 pet hate is that damn stupid flap of wrapper that wants to go everywhere but back on the cigar. :r

I like my cigars at around 63%. Very few draw/burn problems, but not so dry it makes the cigars all harsh and "crackly". :2

Edit: With regards to the article, I was actually in Alfred Dunhill (on Jermyn Street, London) yesterday and a lot of the boxes on display has codes from the mid-90s so it seems they still might practice their aging-before-sale methods. I picked up a tasty little Bolivar PC from 1995 which had a faded old label and a plume-covered wrapper... mighty tasty! :tu


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## dvickery (Jan 1, 2000)

yes there have been a few people that have made this comment in one way or another on this thread already...

it is all relative to the calibration of your hygrometers.

since i got my humidor in dec and emptied 7 coolers i have found i have a wealth of hygrometers.

so i put 3 hygrometers(all the same make model of hygro) in the humidor on top of the same box of cigars.guess what i got 2 minutes ago when i looked...

62%
65%
66%

so in all probability...michael's 67% and n2advnture's 65% and Harpo's 63% are all the same...the right humidity for he who stores/smokes/ages them.

oh...the humidistat in the humi is set for 62.5%

oh again...my cigars smoke/taste fine at all 4 humidities so it is "the right humidity" for me.

derrek


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## Da Klugs (Jan 8, 2005)

dvickery said:


> yes there have been a few people that have made this comment in one way or another on this thread already...
> 
> it is all relative to the calibration of your hygrometers.
> 
> ...


Low sixties are a good thing. High fifties on certain cigars for smoking is my preference. Personal preference and practical circumstances collide for most smokers. I think the circumstances and company have a much larger affect on the enjoyment of a particular cigar than RH.


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## chibnkr (May 2, 2007)

dvickery said:


> so in all probability...michael's 67% and n2advnture's 65% and Harpo's 63% are all the same...the right humidity for he who stores/smokes/ages them.


LOL! However, I am _much_ more confident about the accuracy of my hygrometer (vs. most others' hygrometers) because it is a laboratory "certified" hygrometer (e.g., it is not your "run-of-the-mill" Radio Shack / Oregon Scientific / etc. hygrometer...I purchased it from a laboratory supply house and paid a premium for it). So, I'm pretty confident that my hygrometer that reads 66% RH indicates that my humidor _really is at 66%_ (the margin of error is, I believe, +/- .5% for this unit).


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## icehog3 (Feb 20, 2005)

chibnkr said:


> LOL! However, I am _much_ more confident about the accuracy of my hygrometer (vs. most others' hygrometers) because it is a laboratory "certified" hygrometer (e.g., it is not your "run-of-the-mill" Radio Shack / Oregon Scientific / etc. hygrometer...I purchased it from a laboratory supply house and paid a premium for it). So, I'm pretty confident that my hygrometer that reads 66% RH indicates that my humidor _really is at 66%_ (the margin of error is, I believe, +/- .5% for this unit).


Group Buy!! :r


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## cigarflip (Jul 4, 2004)

chibnkr said:


> LOL! However, I am _much_ more confident about the accuracy of my hygrometer (vs. most others' hygrometers) because it is a laboratory "certified" hygrometer (e.g., it is not your "run-of-the-mill" Radio Shack / Oregon Scientific / etc. hygrometer...I purchased it from a laboratory supply house and paid a premium for it). So, I'm pretty confident that my hygrometer that reads 66% RH indicates that my humidor _really is at 66%_ (the margin of error is, I believe, +/- .5% for this unit).


I have a digital hygrometer made by VWR Scientific and 2 Abbeon Certified Hygrometer (Analog). They are expensive. The analogs cost around $140.00.


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## calistogey (Jun 14, 2005)

n2advnture said:


> Interesting article but I don't know of anyone who doesn't humidify their cigars in one sense or another. (eg, people in humid climmates do "add" humidity because their ambient conditions don't require it).
> 
> The largest debate doesn't seem to be whether or not to humidify but at which RH level is best.


Agree with the above! Can be a little difficult to pinpoint exacting humidity down to decimal points so at this stage, I use the Accumonitor and the OS merely as guides. I say it's ideal somewhere between drawing tight and caps popping off when cutting.


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## n2advnture (Aug 9, 2004)

Da Klugs said:


> ...Personal preference and practical circumstances collide for most smokers. I think the circumstances and company have a much larger affect on the enjoyment of a particular cigar than RH.


Absolutely bro! Well, said :tu

~Mark


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