# I've Abandoned Humidors Completely!!!



## MoreBeer (Feb 13, 2010)

After several years I've come to the conclusion that storing cigars individually within humidors is not the best method and can prove problematic. Even with the correct RH, I think cigars have a tendency to absorb too much of the moisture given out by whatever humidification device is in use and the RH reading is therefore inaccurate in direct relationship to the cigar content itself.

The reason I say this is without-a-doubt, sticks stored in their original boxes within another large container that contains a device to maintain humidity (cooler, big cabinet style humidor that holds boxes, etc.) seem to have the most consistent taste over time. I believe this is fact since they're not directly impacted by whatever is throwing moisture in the air and the RH device is then maintaining the condition of the cigar boxes themselves, and not the cigars which is a better approach to storage.

So, I've given all my humidors to my friends and am keeping one small one only for cigars I intend to smoke during the week.

Just my opinion.


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## Hermit (Aug 5, 2008)

Cooler - yes.
Big Cedar Chest - *NO!*
Wrong kinda cedar.

Oh yeah, edit yer post and make me look like a big dummy. ound:


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## MoreBeer (Feb 13, 2010)

Hermit said:


> Cooler - yes.
> Big Cedar Chest - *NO!*
> Wrong kinda cedar.


What I meant by "big cedar chest" is a large cabinet style actual cigar humidor to hold boxes.


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## Ducrider (Feb 4, 2010)

I could see cigars in boxes having an additional layer of stability. I'll have to start buying a lot more boxes and test out this theory. :evil:


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## Hermit (Aug 5, 2008)

MoreBeer said:


> What I meant by "big cedar chest" is a large cabinet style actual cigar humidor to hold boxes.


OK then.
Just tryin' to prevent a potential tragedy.


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## thegoldenmackid (Mar 16, 2010)

I just don't see how this is the humidor's fault per say. This seems to speak more about the combination of the hydration device and monitoring tool. To each their own I suppose.


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## BDSmith (May 8, 2010)

My step-dad just leaves them in the bag the cigar shop puts the singles into. Buys like 10 at a time and they'll be gone in 3 or 4 days if I'm around. 

I agree that cigars generally seem better when I buy them from a reputable cigar shop and smoke them right away over them being in my humidor for a month or two. Maybe they store them at a different humidity level or something? Maybe I'm just crazy.


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## thegoldenmackid (Mar 16, 2010)

BDSmith said:


> Maybe I'm just crazy.


That's probably it.

While I like to tell myself I'm not paranoid... I def. look at my hygrometers way too many times in a week.


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## MoreBeer (Feb 13, 2010)

Think about it...cigars are warehoused within their boxes in climate controlled rooms. The individual boxes don't contain any RH device inside. They don't need it as long as the air outside is controlled.


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## BDSmith (May 8, 2010)

thegoldenmackid said:


> That's probably it.
> 
> While I like to tell myself I'm not paranoid... I def. look at my hygrometers way too many times in a week.


My glass top gets a glance every time I walk by. The solid top has been checked 4 times today alone. ound:Granted one of those times was me grabbing my Oliva O outta there.


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## Dan-Hur (Feb 26, 2010)

Yeah, but aren't the boxes sealed while in the warehouse? I thought that had something to do with it. Don't know personally. I've thrown all my sticks into a tupperware container with a 2oz CI jar. Haven't had problems yet but my collection, such as it is, is pretty small. It's probably different with bulk storage.


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## BDSmith (May 8, 2010)

MoreBeer said:


> Think about it...cigars are warehoused within their boxes in climate controlled rooms. The individual boxes don't contain any RH device inside. They don't need it as long as the air outside is controlled.


My box of Olivas came shrink wrapped. Then, they are in cellophane too. What's the deal with this? Does the shrink wrap seal whatever humidity level was in there when they were packaged? What about long term storage? What about temperature change? The RH changes with temperature, no? The shrink wrap can't breath, can it? Am I over thinking this?


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## thegoldenmackid (Mar 16, 2010)

I mean, I understand your point Steve, but I'm lost as to how this has anything to do with the humidor. If you have a stable humidification device in a humidor that can hold boxes what's the problem? If you have a cooler and stick something not so reliable in there, I don't see the advantage.



BDSmith said:


> My glass top gets a glance every time I walk by. The solid top has been checked 4 times today alone. ound:Granted one of those times was me grabbing my Oliva O outta there.


Right there with you buddy. As to the shrinkwrap. I imagine that was before shipping and not storage? There's a video on YouTube of JR... it's hard to tell what they do.


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## BDSmith (May 8, 2010)

Well, it's stored at the cigar shop until it sells at least. Weeks, months, who knows? Then it goes home to someone, and they do whatever they do with it, weeks, months later. 

I'm sure the manufacturers/distributors are doing it whatever way is best. It's just weird that some come shrink wrapped, some come just in a box. Some come with cellophane, some don't. 

To keep it on topic, this is how the cigar shops store them. We take them home, open them and change all that.

Like we agree, I'm probably crazy. The OP probably is too. But I understand and agree with him that something definitely seems different with the storage on a big scale vs a little scale and how they taste different.


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## Magnate (Nov 27, 2009)

I completely agree with the OP. But that's a ways down the slope for most people. Not many people are going to jump to a $500+ storage solution. 

But that doesn't stop me from agreeing.


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## tpharkman (Feb 20, 2010)

It looked to me like they age Fuente's in bundles and not inside of their individual box. I have to believe that consistent storage leads to consistent flavor no matter what form that takes.


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## Stench (Aug 17, 2009)

When I set up my cooler, the first thing I did was buy some empty cigar boxes to put my singles into. Almost all of my cigars are inside a box...INSIDE my cooler. RH is rock solid.


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## smelvis (Sep 7, 2009)

Magnate said:


> I completely agree with the OP. But that's a ways down the slope for most people. Not many people are going to jump to a $500+ storage solution.
> 
> But that doesn't stop me from agreeing.


I give ya six months and will see ya in the club.


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## Benji (Jan 10, 2010)

smelvis said:


> I give ya six months and will see ya in the club.


Make it 3! :rofl:


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## Mante (Dec 25, 2009)

Benji said:


> Make it 3! :rofl:


Yessum. What you have done is basically abandoned desktops per se and moved up to one big humi for storing boxes. Good luck with the OCD now, you are doomed, _Doomed!_ I say. LOLound:


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## salmonfly (Nov 11, 2009)

This is what I really love about this place, all of my Brothers turning this thread into one big think tank!! :hmm:


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## smelvis (Sep 7, 2009)

Tashaz said:


> Yessum. What you have done is basically abandoned desktops per se and moved up to one big humi for storing boxes. Good luck with the OCD now, you are doomed, _Doomed!_ I say. LOLound:


So let me get this straight we are suppose to store the cigars in the box in another box? :hmm:


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## Mante (Dec 25, 2009)

smelvis said:


> So let me get this straight we are suppose to store the cigars in the box in another box? :hmm:


Yes indeed. If you have coffins leave them in their box, in the full box, then place the whole box into the big humidified box. Simple really! :thumb::hand::mn:bx


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## smelvis (Sep 7, 2009)

Tashaz said:


> Yes indeed. If you have coffins leave them in their box, in the full box, then place the whole box into the big humidified box. Simple really! :thumb::hand::mn:bx


They should just sell em that way to begin with :mod:


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## Mante (Dec 25, 2009)

smelvis said:


> They should just sell em that way to begin with :mod:


 I cant afford a Vino full of coffins in their original boxes! Should get the vino for free methinks if purchasing that much. Best I'd get is free mold, ahem, I mean Plume. LMAO


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## ongreystreet (Nov 3, 2008)

The fact is cigars are much more durable then people give them credit for, and the average person either opens their humidor too often (especially small ones) or over humidifies to compensate for the fear of their cigars drying up. You might check your hydrometer 4 times a day, which is over kill since the cigars are wrapped, sit on a shelf, then sit on a truck, then sit on a plane, then sit on a truck, then sit in a warehouse, then sit on a truck, then sit in a shop, then get driven home all before they are checked again.

The truth is more is usually better, more cedar, more beads (or whatever *correct *humidification system), and even more cigars.


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## Mante (Dec 25, 2009)

ongreystreet said:


> The fact is cigars are much more durable then people give them credit for, and the average person either opens their humidor too often (especially small ones) or over humidifies to compensate for the fear of their cigars drying up. You might check your hydrometer 4 times a day, which is over kill since the cigars are wrapped, sit on a shelf, then sit on a truck, then sit on a plane, then sit on a truck, then sit in a warehouse, then sit on a truck, then sit in a shop, then get driven home all before they are checked again.
> 
> The truth is more is usually better, more cedar, more beads (or whatever *correct *humidification system), and even more cigars.


Nicely stated yet again. The moral of the story is use whatever works for you.:amen:


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## asmartbull (Aug 16, 2009)

I have abandoned all but 2 humi's.
Everything is in 3 150 qt coolers.
I went from 100-1800+ cigars in a year.
Coolers are the only way....with boxes inside


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## Perseus459 (Sep 14, 2007)

I keep my boxes and overflow desktop humi's inside a dorm size fridge in my cave in the basement. Unplugged of course. When I first loaded it humidity was around 73-74%. After a week with a couple of Boveda Paks humidity runs 67-69% which is what I store most of my sticks at. Temp and humidity have remained constant for the last 9 months with 2 69% Boveda's.


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## Mante (Dec 25, 2009)

asmartbull said:


> I have abandoned all but 2 humi's.
> Everything is in 3 150 qt coolers.
> I went from 100-1800+ cigars in a year.
> Coolers are the only way....with boxes inside


As much as I agree with your theory Al, Coolers are not the "Only" way. Wineadors are another way. *Smile*


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## asmartbull (Aug 16, 2009)

Tashaz said:


> As much as I agree with your theory Al, Coolers are not the "Only" way. Wineadors are another way. *Smile*


show-off,,,

question: How many wineadors will you need to hold 90 boxes
answer: To feekin many..............

arty:


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## Mante (Dec 25, 2009)

asmartbull said:


> show-off,,,
> 
> question: How many wineadors will you need to hold 90 boxes
> answer: To feekin many..............
> ...


Indeed Al you are correct. I hold only a small number of boxes, ie 40, in my little wineador whilst it gets to 120F degrees. I'm suffering while they are not. I would love to see a "Cooler" type humi survive our summers. Beetles here? None! LMAO. You can also buy a Wine Fridge here that would hold about 120 CABINETS for about $700AUD. That sounds like a deal to me.


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## J Daly (Apr 14, 2010)

thegoldenmackid said:


> I def. look at my hygrometers way too many times in a week.


+1! Charlie, I too suffer from OHM (Obsessive Hygro Monitoring) syndrome. I can't help it. -Jamie


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## CraigJS (Dec 23, 2009)

Too bad all of us can't afford or have the room for a 150 qt. cooler set up or wineador. Quess wer'e stuck with the worthless humidors.. :sad:


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## Mante (Dec 25, 2009)

CraigJS said:


> Too bad all of us can't afford or have the room for a 150 qt. cooler set up or wineador. Quess wer'e stuck with the worthless humidors.. :sad:


Relax Craig, Your fine! We all started there and no matter what others say I can gaurantee they have at least one humi stashed somewhere like I do. Your sarcasm will not work Grasshoper, Your legs are weak. LMAO. Nice post though.:banana::banana::banana:


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## CraigJS (Dec 23, 2009)

Like a sniper when the shot presents its self you have to take it.. no rip intended ( just envy showing).


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## Herf N Turf (Dec 31, 2008)

Dear God! I hope my cigars don't read this thread. So far, my practice of not only removing them from their original boxes, but removing the cellophane and placing them all in one of five *sub-standard* humidors has been rendering the best tasting smokes I've ever had. :hmm:

Shhhh!

Honestly, I think time and consistent condition are the operators here, not the vessel.


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## Mante (Dec 25, 2009)

Herf N Turf said:


> Dear God! I hope my cigars don't read this thread. So far, my practice of not only removing them from their original boxes, but removing the cellophane and placing them all in one of five *sub-standard* humidors has been rendering the best tasting smokes I've ever had. :hmm:
> 
> Shhhh!
> 
> Honestly, I think time and consistent condition are the operators here, not the vessel.


:spammer: :attention: :spank: :lock1: :lock1: :lock1: 
:tpd: :tpd: :tpd: :tpd: :tpd: :tpd:
ROTFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Vindi (Aug 24, 2007)

Herf N Turf said:


> Dear God! I hope my cigars don't read this thread. So far, my practice of not only removing them from their original boxes, but removing the cellophane and placing them all in one of five *sub-standard* humidors has been rendering the best tasting smokes I've ever had. :hmm:
> 
> Shhhh!
> 
> Honestly, I think time and consistent condition are the operators here, not the vessel.


I have to agree. It shouldn't matter if your smokes are in a cooler or humi. As long as the temp and RH is good it should be the same. Either in the original boxes stored as singles in a humi should make no difference.

This is just based on my thinking as I have done no testing.

Maybe you are storing them at too high a RH and that is giving you the impression that the ones that you store in sealed boxes taste better because they might be at a lower RH due to the time it will take to bring the whole box up to your RH level. What RH are you storing at?


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## Cigary (Oct 19, 2007)

Herf N Turf said:


> Dear God! I hope my cigars don't read this thread. So far, my practice of not only removing them from their original boxes, but removing the cellophane and placing them all in one of five *sub-standard* humidors has been rendering the best tasting smokes I've ever had. :hmm:
> 
> Shhhh!
> 
> Honestly, I think time and consistent condition are the operators here, not the vessel.


Once again it's apparent Don knows exactly what he's talking about.  Remember that the goal is to keep air and other elements out. Tight fitting seams and secure closure are important. Keeping the RH and temperature at the optimum levels is what is important and when you keep digging in and out of whatever you put them in tends to degrade the aging process if that is your goal...aging. It has been said that true aging of any cigar is 5 years plus and it was considered ungentlemanly to smoke a cigar under 5 years of age.

Most of us smoke our stash within a years time so aging for us doesn't really apply unless you are a fastidious student of the art of aging cigars. Like good wine when they are stored in a constant temp and in oak barrels ( tour of Varrimista Winery in Tuscany ) for 12 months it's the process that makes all the difference and it's the same every time. Now, if they were to constantly open the barrels and roll them outside and play around with them you would not get the intended product. Cigars are durable...no doubt about it and they can take more abuse than we'd like to give them. Under optimum conditions they do indeed smoke and taste better as I can attest when smoking some of my favorite cigars ( Opus, Esplendidos) and keep them in pristine and optimum condition...RH/Temp. I have some Esplendidos that are 5 years old and when I smoke them it's like heaven. When I smoke an Esplendido that has 2 years of age on it it's just a smaller piece of heaven.

Then there are those of us who really don't notice any difference at all between a 1 year cigar and a 5 year cigar. The more you are around this hobby your tastes and acumen will change to reflect that level of taste just like those connoisseurs that are around coffee, wines, etc. Am I a cigar connoisseur? I wish but I can tell more about cigars now than I did when I started 40 years ago. Development of ones taste buds occur during infancy and if you were breast fed then your development of your taste buds were heightened as opposed to those who were bottle fed. I blame my mother for bottle feeding me since I will probably never be a connoisseur.


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## thegoldenmackid (Mar 16, 2010)

Cigary said:


> I blame my mother for bottle feeding me since I will probably never be a connoisseur.


I know we were going to get back to breast. I'm going to get my tiny violin now.

I really think the only solution is to create your own aging room in your house. Just sayin'.


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## Herf N Turf (Dec 31, 2008)

There is something to be said for aging in the original semi-plain boxes (the typical paper covered whatever-wood) and cabinets (cedar boxes) and "consistency". Semi-plain boxes impart far less cedar essence to the flavor of the cigar, cabinets, more so. Typically, cabinets are akin to humidors, in terms of imparting cedar flavors to cigars, but they (cabinets) also slow the aging process somewhat, likely due to the simple fact that they are more tightly fit. The idea of a hermetically sealed environment for aging cigars is not ideal. Cigars need fresh air and especially oxygen to age. Fermentation, especially cannot occur in an oxygen depleted environment. I would not want to smoke a cigar that was left in it's original box, inside an unopened cooler for 5yrs. It would taste like a musty ammonia and phenol soaked sock. 

Wine, unlike spirits, doesn't age in barrels, it ages and reaches maturity in bottles. The breakdown of tannins and the accompanying transformation of gasses are what does the trick. Aging wine and cigars is somewhat similar, in that the more we restrict the exchange of gasses and byproducts, the more slowly and delicately they age. A cigar, aged in it's cellophane, left in it's original box, will age much more slowly than a cigar sitting on a tray, inside a humidor, which is opened daily. This cigar will impart a more delicate and complex experience. Min Ron Nee, perhaps the world authority on aging Cuban cigars, calls this "ethereal", I think, for lack of a better term.

Conversely, a cigar aged in a common desk-top humidor will age much more rapidly and hit the "flavorsome" stage far more quickly than the cigar aged using the "mini-wine-in-the-bottle" technique. I find the former to be much more agreeable where concerns non-Cuban cigars. In the case of most non-Cubans, you have a mish-mash of tobaccos from varying regions and of unknown age. These combinations impose far too many variables upon the aging process. You may have filler tobaccos that are 2 and 8yrs old, a binder that is a year old and a wrapper that is 2. What will happen to these tobaccos in 5-10yrs is anyone's guess and far above my pay grade to determine.

Whew! All that said, I don't "age" non-Cuban cigars. I allow them to "rest" for about 1-2yrs, simply to allow the effects of the final fermentation to dissipate. To my palate, this is when non-Cubans become most flavorsome. There are those rare exceptions, which serve to reinforce the rule. One example is Opus X. They seem to really come into their own after about 4yrs. However, at 5yrs, they go into a "dumb" phase and taste lifeless. They seem to come back around after that.

Sorry for all the jibber-jabber, but hopefully someone will find this helpful.


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## CraigJS (Dec 23, 2009)

We always do Don..


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## reblyell (Jan 28, 2010)

Herf N Turf said:


> Sorry for all the jibber-jabber, but hopefully someone will find this helpful.


No jibber-jabber there Don, just plenty of good info.


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## clintgeek (May 8, 2010)

Ducrider said:


> I could see cigars in boxes having an additional layer of stability. I'll have to start buying a lot more boxes and test out this theory. :evil:


Awesome reply. Any excuse to buy more is a good excuse, right?


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## BDSmith (May 8, 2010)

Definitely good info.

Maybe for some of us, we like the taste of a younger cigar over one that has seen some "rest." Or maybe it's just because that is what we are used to smoking. Who knows, that's the problem with taste.


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## socapots (Feb 22, 2010)

CraigJS said:


> We always do Don..





reblyell said:


> No jibber-jabber there Don, just plenty of good info.


like they said.. i love this site because of it.
always learning so much.


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## Bigtotoro (Jul 5, 2009)

BDSmith said:


> Definitely good info.
> 
> Maybe for some of us, we like the taste of a younger cigar over one that has seen some "rest." Or maybe it's just because that is what we are used to smoking. Who knows, that's the problem with taste.


Or maybe it because you are just wrong?!?! Kidding aside, I was introduced to the wonderful world of vinotemp and am NEVER going back. I finally made the Heartfelt plunge and that has fixed every problem I had. The 65% beads keep me at about 62%RH (I am using a little more than recommended for my size) and perversely they seem to control the temp as well. I would guess the stable RH makes the temp easier to balance. I know that the temp was always 66-72 before and now is a rock solid 61.


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## rus_bro (Jun 18, 2010)

storage may be the only thing keeping me from reaching a couple hundred.. damn cigars 
rb


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