# Cubans vs the rest of the world



## dayplanner (Dec 11, 1997)

I am wondering how many people think that all Cubans are superior to Non-Cuban cigars. I recently smoked a Padron Ambassador that I think was as good if not better than at least a couple of ISOM's I have smoked... (one was a Cohiba Sig IV and sorry, can't remember the other stick at the moment and couldn't find the ring, yes I save them)

So... as you can see I have set up a little poll and am looking forward to hearing your thoughts on the superiority of the mighty Cuban cigar. It would be great to find out what particular domestic cigar you find better than what particular Cuban for reference sake. 

Of course there are the they are all just different colors and some prefer blue and some prefer red argument but I am hoping to find out if or how often you have found either a particular NC superior to an ISOM OR what Cubans you think are very regularly poor performers. Do you think there are Cubans that are just fluff?


I'm thinking that this should be a dollar for dollar survey... meaning judging a ten dollar ISOM against a ten dollar NC

Thanks in advance... I look forward to your findings!


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## Churchlady (Jan 22, 2004)

I don't love cubanos for the sake of their origin. I like the flavor profile that many of them share. The Sig I Cohiba is the only cohiba that I'd say I flip over. MC Joyitas and the R&J churchills are phenomenal too. On the NC side, I'd have to say as a rival, the Graycliff Crystal Pirate, the AF Short story and the JDN Antanos have fantastic attributes that I'll prefer over a cuban at times.

So for me, it's not just that it's a cuban, it's what flavor, size and mood that set what cigar I'm going to prefer.


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## Navydoc (Jan 26, 2005)

I would take the following non-cubans: Opus X, DC Max, Anejo, Graycliff, Ashton VSG over the following Cubans: Rafael Gonzalez, Rey Del Mundo, and Jose Piedra. 90% of what I smoke are Cuban though.... :w


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## MoTheMan (May 24, 2003)

Churchlady said:


> So for me, it's not just that it's a cuban, it's what flavor, size and mood that set what cigar I'm going to prefer.


I'm with CL on this, although I tend to strongly lean more towards the Habano profile than NC ones.


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## altbier (Feb 20, 2005)

I agree with church lady, I have found some great cigars that i think are far better than cubans. from what I understand, since the soils in Cuba have not been replenished(i.e. not fertilizing or rotating crops) that the tobacco is not as good as say 20 years ago. There is a new line the Mr Bundles is going to sell in a couple of weeks that matches some of the cuban cigars almost perfectly. Even without trying to do that, they are incredible cigars.
Other cigars I love are the Series X and Punch champions and punch rare corojo. So I guess it is a matter of taste.

I think some people buy into the hype too. The idea of forbidden fruit. An Opus X is pretty much the same as an Ashton VSG. And for the non cigar snob like me, Ashton is softer on the wallet.

my 2 cents worth.

Cheers!


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## Funnymantrip (Oct 28, 2004)

I think it's a mix. I would agree and opus, or don carlos or anejeo are wonderful sticks. Out of that group I would never turn down a shark. They rank right up there with #2, PSD4 in my book. 

There are some NC's that have great press that I just don't seem to like and would pick all the rest of the NC's over those any day. 

Same thing with the ISOM's. Not a big fan of the Bolivar or Sancho, just not my speed.


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## Mr. White (Dec 4, 2004)

I'll go against the grain and say that out of the 2 ISOM's I've now had, for the price, I feel I can find a better NC/DR/HON stick.

EVeryone's probably going to think I'm nuts, but when I factor in Price/Risk/Flavor/Consistency, the non-isoms win out. Aroma, I'd have to give to the ISOM's. As they do smell quite good.


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## (909) (Jul 27, 2004)

Churchlady said:


> I don't love cubanos for the sake of their origin. I like the flavor profile that many of them share. The Sig I Cohiba is the only cohiba that I'd say I flip over. MC Joyitas and the R&J churchills are phenomenal too. On the NC side, I'd have to say as a rival, the Graycliff Crystal Pirate, the AF Short story and the JDN Antanos have fantastic attributes that I'll prefer over a cuban at times.
> 
> So for me, it's not just that it's a cuban, it's what flavor, size and mood that set what cigar I'm going to prefer.


Churchlady hit it on the head. My favorite NC smokes are the AF Short Story, La Aroma de Cuba Corona, Cusano C10, Padron 64 anny. My favorite ISOMs are the PSD4, the Boli PC and the Partagas Short.

ISOM vs non ISOM?? It's what you're in the mood for.

I like all of those on my list equally.


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## Smokem94 (Mar 18, 2005)

I just know what I like and that is Habanos almost exclusively these days. There are still some acceptable NC's, but not many for my tastes.


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## IHT (Dec 27, 2003)

smoke what tastes good to you.


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## Ninja Vanish (Apr 7, 2005)

CAO Criollos remmind me somewhat of the way a cuban smokes, with the exception of the amount of smoke produced. (The Criollo didn't make as much think smoke as an ISOM) Both of the cubans I have smoked recently as well as the Criollo followed this pattern: the first few puffs after lighting were not so great, in fact tasted sort of bad, but once you get past that, it gets better, and better, and better and better until you get it down to just a little nub. Alot of NC's I have tried are good to start with but once they get down closer to the end they begin to get bitter and taste diminishes signifcantlly. I also like the La Flor Dominicana Double Ligero, it gives a good buzz like some of the cubans I have tried. Macanudo Maduro's have a good long lasting flavor that doesn't get bitter until you have smoked the goodie out of every last inch of it, at least that is my opinion.


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## MocoBird (Sep 2, 2004)

IMHO.....I find that some well aged, quaility "domestic" cigar can really give some Cubans a run for their money. 
I went with.....

"I think that Cubans are great but that there are a lot of NC's that rival them".......with a little age!


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## tecnorobo (Mar 29, 2005)

IHT said:


> smoke what tastes good to you.


exactly.


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## dadof3illinois (Nov 7, 2004)

I've found over the years that I just like a good Cigar! There are several Non Cuban cigars out there that I really like and would take over many Cubans (Opus X isn't one though).

Don't get me wrong, I love Cuban Cigars but some just don't do it for me.

It's all in your "flavor profile", everyone is different. Just smoke what you like.


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## Roger Miller" (Apr 15, 2004)

I have no idea. I rip the bands off all my cigars as soon as i get them, toss the boxes, and just dump them into big cedar trays in my humidor. If i don't like the one i pick out, i pitch it and grab another. Cuts down on the decision time in picking a cigar, i just do it by size now.

j/k  seriously, it is a matter of personal taste. What CL, Mo, and IHT said.



altbier said:


> .... There is a new line the Mr Bundles is going to sell in a couple of weeks that matches some of the cuban cigars almost perfectly. ...


And what, may i inquire, line is that?

_____
rm


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## RPB67 (Mar 26, 2005)

There are alot of good non cubans out there. However, I am more towards an only cuban smoker. I like the taste and I like the way they smoke.


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## Mr. White (Dec 4, 2004)

Ninja Vanish said:


> the first few puffs after lighting were not so great.


I have heard that this can be caused from overheating the cigar when first lighting it. Some people actually prefer regular flame lighters as opposed to torch lighters for this reason.


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## IHT (Dec 27, 2003)

Roger Miller" said:


> I have no idea. I rip the bands off all my cigars as soon as i get them, toss the boxes, and just dump them into big cedar trays in my humidor. If i don't like the one i pick out, i pitch it and grab another. Cuts down on the decision time in picking a cigar, i just do it by size now.


THAT ^^^^ is a kick-ass idea. i hate rifling throuhg boxes/ziploc bags with the door open to my humi trying figure out what i want....


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## MocoBird (Sep 2, 2004)

Roger Miller" said:


> I have no idea. I rip the bands off all my cigars as soon as i get them, toss the boxes, and just dump them into big cedar trays in my humidor. If i don't like the one i pick out, i pitch it and grab another. Cuts down on the decision time in picking a cigar, i just do it by size now.


 :r Excellent Idea!! Very time effective! :r


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## dayplanner (Dec 11, 1997)

Jokieman said:


> I have heard that this can be caused from overheating the cigar when first lighting it. Some people actually prefer regular flame lighters as opposed to torch lighters for this reason.


I use a torch and get a solid light going aided with a gentle puff or two but I then I try to let it cool down before really considering the smoke "started"

I lately have made a conscious effort to draw more gently on my cigar so I don't over heat it ( I think I was "puffing" too hard before) and I also try to be somewhat consistent time wise about the draws so it does not start to go out and that way when I do draw it is ready. Other wise, before I was finding myself with it not lit enough so I would take a good hard puff to get it going before my draw but then noticing that the draw was too hot.

It seems that since I have been doing this I have been able to discern a lot of the flavors I read about for so long without a clue.

I had a (my first) Vegas Robaina - Famoso last night thanks to a great BOTL, and what a great cigar...Full of flavor and some spice yet no harshness what so ever... this is a characteristic I have found very common in ISOM's so far.

Just for the record... I went with "I find Cubans are usually the best but occasionally find an NC that is better"


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## OpusEx (Oct 31, 2003)

I really believe this to be an apples and oranges thing in some respects. There are good and bad in both NC's and ISOM's, but what seperates the two IMHO is the characteristic of "complexity". I have yet to have a NC that has ANY, it might have a nice flavor or body, but it starts and remains the same throughout, which is boring to me after a bit and thus makes me not only put the cigar down well before finishing it, but inhibits me from wanting to have that particular cigar again. Where as an ISOM (and no not everyone) can and usually does change throughout the smoking. I truly enjoy the subtle, but noticeable changes that I get to experience while enjoying ISOM's and usually nub them, as to not miss that very last change that may come. NC's on the other hand are usually relegated to yard gars or simply something to smoke when in the company of others or when not wanting to pay any particular attention to the cigar itself. When enjoying an ISOM I always give it the time and attention it deserves or it, by its uniqueness, demands my attention. In the same train of thought, I think I can attribute some of the NC's lack of any complexity to the fact that the trend in manufacturers today is to make the most "powerful" or "largest ring" or just plain concentrate on the marketing end of any new cigar, as opposed to just making a damn good cigar, which will sell itself (a trend that is frighteningly rearing its ugly head with the presence of Altadis SA's involvement in Habanos SA). Lastly, yes it's all about what YOU as an individual like and enjoy and hats off to you for your own individuality, but given the ability to choose, hands down there is no comparison dollar for dollar (in fact most of the time it's less $ for the ISOM, case in point one of the few NC's I do enjoy, though it is not complex, but is a great little smoke and doesn't need to be complex due to it's size is the Padron Anniversary Principe Maduro and @ $8-10/each, I'll take any of the TPC's from havana anyday of the week at less cost). Alright, off the :sb 
:r


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## Ninja Vanish (Apr 7, 2005)

Jokieman said:


> I have heard that this can be caused from overheating the cigar when first lighting it. Some people actually prefer regular flame lighters as opposed to torch lighters for this reason.


 I actually prefer cedar matches which is what I use most of the time, maybe I will puff less when lighting up next time, see what happens.


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## IHT (Dec 27, 2003)

Ninja Vanish said:


> I actually prefer cedar matches...


that, right there, could be your problem.

read Mo's post in THIS TOPIC, should be post #2.


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## MiamiE (Mar 5, 2005)

ive had about 20-30 different cubans so far and i can say i havent had ONE that was worse than the best NC ive had. although it was very close. the Padron 64's are amazing cigars and probably the only other NC ill buy. i got a Padron 26 sitting here that i think is probably the best cigar ill ever smoke, even better than some cubans. my theory is if it aint a Padron Annie it doesnt beat a cuban.


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## Thurm15 (Jan 28, 2005)

I'm in the only tried a few ISOM's category. The 1st was a Party short with a date of OCT 04. I knew it was young but couldn't resist. I thought it was a good smoke but wasn't blown away so I'm gonna try and let em sit for a while. Now the 2nd ISOM I tried was a Boli PC from Aug 03. I was blown away by this one. The best Cigar I've had yet hands down. the Padron 64 Monarca I had and a CAO Extreme Robusto I smoked that was well aged in a friends Humi also blew me away though So the jury is still out for me.


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## radar (Dec 31, 1999)

Most of my favorites are Cuban, but there are some NCs that I prefer to some Cubans.


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## icehog3 (Feb 20, 2005)

I'm just glad there are some great NCs out there...can't necessarily afford to smoke Cubans every day, so it's nice that some of the other countries have really come a long way in producing some quality cigars. That being said, I'll take a BBF over any NC anyday.


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## magno (Nov 8, 2004)

God knows if I have it in me to be coherent right now, but here's my spiel, ramble, opinion, ....whatever

I've been smoking alot of Cubans lately. I had a few runs of cuban after cuban that left me thinking I'd rather have a Padron. But, after Fredster bombed me back in my fledging Cs days (that would be last november) I've been gravitating more and more to the Forbidden leaf. As others have pointed out, there is something about the quintessentially Cuban taste that you just can't get out of any other leaf. that doesn't mean Cubans are better -- just different. And I prefer the flavour profile these days (though I happily chomp on my fair share of premium domestics) and the domestics I like are the ones whose tastes remind me of Cubans.

On any level other than taste, however, the best Domestics flog -- yes, FLOG -- the Cubans. In terms of construction, looks and burn , Padron, AVO, Fuente, the Aurora 100 anos line etc. etc. all consistently best the Cubans in my estimation. Granted, I have a few Cubans in my humidor that are simply gorgeous, but even my best sticks pale in comparison to my 1926 Padrons.

Then again, my best Domestics cost upwards of 3 times what my favourite Cubans go for.

The following cigars are -- in every category --on par with Cubans in my book.

Padron 1926 natural : as good as any Cuban and better than most

Opus X Super Belicoso: Nothing else taste like an Opus, and the Belicoso just happens to be my favourite.

La Aurora 100 anos corona: a perfect PC



Franksmith said:


> I am wondering how many people think that all Cubans are superior to Non-Cuban cigars. I recently smoked a Padron Ambassador that I think was as good if not better than at least a couple of ISOM's I have smoked... (one was a Cohiba Sig IV and sorry, can't remember the other stick at the moment and couldn't find the ring, yes I save them)
> 
> So... as you can see I have set up a little poll and am looking forward to hearing your thoughts on the superiority of the mighty Cuban cigar. It would be great to find out what particular domestic cigar you find better than what particular Cuban for reference sake.
> 
> ...


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## radar (Dec 31, 1999)

icehog3 said:


> I'm just glad there are some great NCs out there...can't necessarily afford to smoke Cubans every day, so it's nice that some of the other countries have really come a long way in producing some quality cigars. That being said, I'll take a BBF over any NC anyday.


Amen! The fact that they have come so far also expands the variety of good smokes to be had which enhances the whole experience IMHO.


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## MocoBird (Sep 2, 2004)

Same ole thing day after day just gets boring. Be it cigars or cars or whatever. I would get bored real fast if all I had was Cubans to smoke. I need a little change. I mean if the cigar Nazi’s came in and told me I had to pick one kind of cigar to smoke forever I would have to go with the Cubans. But since I have choices in my life, I just say…..
“To each his own………………… Variety is the spice of life!”


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## IHT (Dec 27, 2003)

magno said:


> On any level other than taste, however, the best Domestics flog -- yes, FLOG -- the Cubans.
> *{IHT - i like to smoke my cigars, so i'm in it for the taste.}*
> 
> In terms of construction, looks and burn , Padron, AVO, Fuente, the Aurora 100 anos line etc. etc. all consistently best the Cubans in my estimation. Granted, I have a few Cubans in my humidor that are simply gorgeous, but even my best sticks pale in comparison to my 1926 Padrons.
> *{IHT - very cool. i've only had a few 1926s, and i had a photo in my gallery here - that i recently deleted - that has a photo of a piss poor burning '26. i do agree, the majority of premium NCs do look a buttload better fresh outta the box (and most have a very good draw to them), but i love the look of a cuban that looks all dusty with the start of plume.}*


not disagreeing with you, just relating my own experiences.
non-cubans do look pretty darn good. nice construction, etc.
i've recently been bombed the f*ck out of with non-cubans, and have been smoking them up like crazy (cuz i have no drawers for singles, everything is still in zip-locs on top of boxes in my humi). iv'e noticed that a lot of them have burn issues, rolling issues.

hey, they still burn, i still get smoke, so i really dont' give a rip if it looks like a 20 day old dog turd that's turned white in the sun, or a fuggin cigar rolling masterpiece... as long as it tastes good, that's what i'm after.

i had a CAO Italia last night, i guess a toro size or so, pretty solid smoke. tonight i might light me up that big Criollo they gave out, the one i bought was pretty darn good. recently got a big ass Gurkha from RcktS4, and i haven't had one since i was a newbie (which is the cigar that got my neighbor and another co-worker into cigars), can't wait to try that as well....

so, as i said in my first post, smoke what you like, that's what i do.

and my replies weren't "aimed" at magno (not mango), just using your reply to get "my" feelings across. hope you don't take it any other way, as it wasn't meant that way.


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## PaulHag (Feb 12, 2005)

I couldnt tell ya


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## Nely (Nov 11, 2004)

IHT said:


> smoke what tastes good to you.


This statement has a lot of weight. Until recently I was very happy smoking my Toranos gold, my pirahnas and my AF's. That is until I was gifted some cubans. All of the sudden I started getting cravings for that specific profile that only cubans have, and while I still enjoy the above mentioned cigars, it is not the same anymore. There is something in the flavor of a cuban that I really like, that it hits the spot like no other cigar can, and its got nothing to do with the forbidden fruit mentality. I was one of the ones that thought that cubans were too expensive, but if you compare them there isn't really much of a difference. With the money that you spend buying a box of nice premiums you can also buy a box of cubans, probably not the same size but a very satisfying smoke indeed.


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## magno (Nov 8, 2004)

Hey, I ain't offended and I don't think Mango would be offended, neither. 

I wouldn't smoke a cigar that didn't taste good either. But I like my cigars to look like whoever rolled em wasn't some disgruntled underpaid employee with callouses on her once- virgin thighs. I like tight ashes and nice round tips on my belicosos. These add to the whole experience for me. I also like sweet, well-endowed women in tight shirts and mini-skirts. Now, I'm cool with just the sweet , well-endowed woman sans tight shirt and mini-skirt ensemble, but she better not be wearing a Mumu neither.

Gonna smoke me a Ghurka tonight, myself -- courtesy of Kansashat.



IHT said:


> not disagreeing with you, just relating my own experiences.
> non-cubans do look pretty darn good. nice construction, etc.
> i've recently been bombed the f*ck out of with non-cubans, and have been smoking them up like crazy (cuz i have no drawers for singles, everything is still in zip-locs on top of boxes in my humi). iv'e noticed that a lot of them have burn issues, rolling issues.
> 
> ...


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## dayplanner (Dec 11, 1997)

radar said:


> ....but there are some NCs that I prefer to some Cubans.


Any particulars Radar?


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## God (May 5, 2004)

Good or bad... long or short... thick or thin... a hand rolled cigar from a master is a thing of beauty... be they Cuban, Dominican, Honduran, Nicaraguan or somewhere else on the globe... they are all from the "Leaf"... (pause for a moment of silent meditation and to wipe a tear from my eye)...

Okay boys... light 'em up!!! :r 

As to the topic of this thread I would agree with much that has been said... peoples tastes are different, the particular smoking occasion may be different and every cigar will be different as so are opinions. My experience is that several other NC will rival Cubans... not saying one is any better than the other... I have had bad Cubans and very good, complex Cubans but then again I can say the same thing about NCs.

The interesting thing is trying to pinpoint the exact thing that will define a great cigar... If you take a master roller from Cuba and give him access to the finest non-cuban tobaccos available and time to perfect the blend your only variable will be the soil and conditions that Cuban tobacco is grown in... I don't feel that this by itself will guarantee you a better cigar than quality grown tobacco from another area. Just my two cents worth...


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## SeanGAR (Jul 9, 2004)

I'm an equal opportunity smoker. I'll smoke exclusively cubans for a couple of days then smoke only NCs for 2 weeks. I smoke mainly NCs so Cubans are a taste treat this way but honestly I'd miss my Piranhas, LGCR5s, Boli Fuerte 554s or other smokes if I could only smoke cubans.


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## filly (Dec 12, 1997)

I was ruined at an early age for Cubans. I have smoked several varieties of NC and quite frankly, they tasted like burning cardboard pizza boxes. They had little flavor and were aged at least 3 years! lol I do love the Padron Annis but not the newer ones. I have had quite a few of the old Annis with age on them (before they got into all that wrapper/ fake stuff) and THEY age very well. The new one's suck with age, lose their spice and become just flat. I have smoked tons of Opus and Fuente and Ashton products but they are just so one dimensional for me. It's not that I won't smoke a NC, but I KNOW I can buy cheaper cubans, esp here in CA. I'd have to buy online and I just rather get a 50 cab of PC's for the same price as a primo box of smokes: more bang for the buck and flavor as well. I think you have to also consider that most of the cigars you folks have smoked (not all of you and not trying to diss anyone here) haven't had enough age on them for you to appreciate what they can really become. I have smoked plenty of well aged cigars, talking 15-20 year old smokes here, (thanks to very generous BOTL as I sure as heck can't afford these smokes! lol) and by far they are superior to any NC I have EVER smoked. Some of them, I'd give my front teeth for!  I will say that I smoked a very nice, gifted Davidoff Milli, that was very nice flavor but if I smoked those, I might as well get a couple of boxes of Cubanos!


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## LasciviousXXX (Oct 12, 2004)

I myself started off smoking really good NC's, I was given plenty of helpful recommendations by BOTL here on which NC's would blow me away. I admit that their are tons out there that I really like.

Having said that..... when I was first introduced to Cubans (cigars not people ) I just about flipped. The best damn smokes I've ever had, flavor was outstanding, strength was powerful without being overbearing. In other words..... I had fallen in love. 

Nowadays about 98% of what I smoke is Cuban. I still receive good NC's from generous BOTL here and I enjoy them with open arms. However, since being introduced to the DarkSide, my palate is reserved for Havanas only


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## poker (Dec 11, 1997)

Those who know me know what I smoke.


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## LasciviousXXX (Oct 12, 2004)

Buttnuggets???????


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## poker (Dec 11, 1997)

LoL!


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## JohnnyCashFan (Apr 24, 2005)

Never had a Cuban.


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## poker (Dec 11, 1997)

I can change that if you like


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## icehog3 (Feb 20, 2005)

Sounds like an offer you shouldn't refuse JCFan!!


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## DownUnder LLG (Mar 29, 2005)

Well I have fav's in both camps. I have had some really great cubans and some really bad ones, I have also had the same experience with NC's. I'm sure this is probably the same with most of you BOTL. A lot of people rave about the Monte #2, a smoke I have had a few of and it has had some drastic inconsistencies and when you read about how many sticks they produce in a year you start to understand why. I would say that some of the Cubans I have had that I really like are the Boli RC, HDM Epi#2. On the NC side I have become a recent fan of Padron, I have enjoyed Opus X, Ashton VSG, AF CF. For me it comes down to what I'm feeling like at the time, its like choosing a wine with a meal or a wine that I feel like. If I feel like something full, I smoke full, if i'm feeling mild I go mild... you get the idea. I think this is why I have not developed a truly specific fav, with exception of the Ash VSG and now the Padron, these have probably become my go to smoke unless I am graving something specific as I said above, it comes down to what i'm feeling like.
Cheers
Jason


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## CigarTom (Aug 27, 2003)

Sorry, there aren't enough choices in this poll. It depends on the day of the week, the wind direction, barometric pressure, what clothes I'm wearing, my astrological forecast, and a variety of other critical factors. If you're going to leave this info out of your poll, I'm going to have to refuse to participate.


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## radar (Dec 31, 1999)

Franksmith said:


> Any particulars Radar?


Aurora 100 Anos coronas and Puros Indios Viejo and Reserva Maxima come to mind immediately. The corona sized Aurora is an excellent smoke for about $10 and the PIs' are even less money 3 or 4 bucks a stick.


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## NCRadioMan (Feb 28, 2005)

As of now I'm in the majority in the poll. The habana's I've had have all been better than anything else I've smoked. But I absolutly love Toranos! And had my first Paddy Anny 64 a few days ago and It was really, really good! So I reckon you can find greatness in both.


:ms NCRM


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## dayplanner (Dec 11, 1997)

radar said:


> Aurora 100 Anos coronas and Puros Indios Viejo and Reserva Maxima come to mind immediately. The corona sized Aurora is an excellent smoke for about $10 and the PIs' are even less money 3 or 4 bucks a stick.


Thanks for the reply...

I am always interested in trying what more experienced smokers like. I thought that I was a mild only smoker then I tried smokes like PSD4's and LGC SR4's in Madero and found out that I like more flavor than what I thought. I have smoked a pretty decent selection in the last month and haven't tried a single thing that I thought was to strong unless it was also very bitingly harsh... like burning the heck out of the nostrils when exhaling via nose.


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## radar (Dec 31, 1999)

Franksmith said:


> Thanks for the reply...
> 
> I am always interested in trying what more experienced smokers like. I thought that I was a mild only smoker then I tried smokes like PSD4's and LGC SR4's in Madero and found out that I like more flavor than what I thought. I have smoked a pretty decent selection in the last month and haven't tried a single thing that I thought was to strong unless it was also very bitingly harsh... like burning the heck out of the nostrils when exhaling via nose.


I have your addy, I'll be heading down to the Bonita Smoke Shop when I can catch a minute. I'll send you a sampler.


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## dayplanner (Dec 11, 1997)

radar said:


> I have your addy, I'll be heading down to the Bonita Smoke Shop when I can catch a minute. I'll send you a sampler.


Is Gary awesome or what?

I can personally tell you it is NOT "what"

BTW, Gary... I would avoid walking around out in the open for just a little while... and maybe stock up on some sand bags :gn


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## colgate (Jan 18, 2005)

Cubans vs the rest of the world?
This reminds me of the old SNL skit where the Chicago guys sit around and debate different scenarios for the Bears or Ditka to face and who would win.

Cubans vs, say, a double Ligero Padron 1776? Da Cubans.


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## Arleban (Oct 13, 2004)

Gotta rack up another for the never had a Cuban option. Supposedly they're great. I would just be slightly afraid to find out how much better given my lack of cigar fundage as it is.


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## TShailer (Jan 31, 2005)

The few cubans that I've smoked were all outstanding. However, there is a wonderful variety of NCs out there and on a snowy April day I can go down to one of several great tobacconists, buy an NC, and smoke it in their shop with a great bunch of people. (Today's a snowy April day and I'm headed down to the shop.) Just happy with the variety.

-ts


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## Thurm15 (Jan 28, 2005)

Just got done with a RASS. Unbelievable!!! I believe after smoking the Party short and boli PC that I'm starting to lean toward ISOM's. OH NOOOOOOOOOO!


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## dayplanner (Dec 11, 1997)

Thurm15 said:


> Just got done with a RASS. Unbelievable!!! I believe after smoking the Party short and boli PC that I'm starting to lean toward ISOM's. OH NOOOOOOOOOO!


Welcome to the dark side of the slope my BOTL... I'll try to catch you at the bottom if you are not coming in too fast.... :hn


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## poloboy7 (Apr 19, 2005)

I haven't had too much experience with Cubans or cigars in general, but there is just something about Cubans that I can't describe. Every single time that I smoke a cuban I always end up flat on the floor. I feel like there has got to be something in that tobacco that NC just don't have. I have heard fellow BOTL's mention that the soil has some nutrient of some sort, but I don't remember what it is. It terms of flavor, my young palatte is still trying to discern the various flavors of a fine cigars, which I hope to get better at as I smoke more cigars.


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## PJMAC (May 1, 2005)

There are a couple of other things to consider. Are you sure they weren't fakes? There are alot out there. I've seen some great ones. I've had several bonefide cubans of poor quality. Some of the brands in high demand have suffered from quality problems in the past. Don't forget the cubans make some cheapies (machine made)as well. I have also found that many smokers from the US don't really enjoy the full bodied strength some cubans produce. Different strokes for different folks. Don't get me wrong, there are some great non cubans. I probably smoke more non cubans as I smoke cubans. It's also difficult to say after smoking just a few. After all, imagine smoking the 2 worst n/c's you have ever smoked and then forming an opinion about n/c's. All I'm trying to say is don't write them off completely until you have had a chance to try a few more.

PJ



Jokieman said:


> I'll go against the grain and say that out of the 2 ISOM's I've now had, for the price, I feel I can find a better NC/DR/HON stick.
> 
> EVeryone's probably going to think I'm nuts, but when I factor in Price/Risk/Flavor/Consistency, the non-isoms win out. Aroma, I'd have to give to the ISOM's. As they do smell quite good.


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## cigartexan (Jan 1, 2000)

poker said:


> Those who know me know what I smoke.


What, Toscani's?


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## punch (Mar 5, 2005)

Most of what we taste is in the mind. The tongue only takes about five inputs and then mixes them with the nose and other inputs to send a signal to the brain that you interpret as taste. Not very romantic, but that is about it. This is also why two people can eat / drink / smoke the exact same thing and get two completely different tastes. Some things, like construction and burn can be measured. These, to some degree, add or detract from the overall experience. 

Discussing cigars is a lot like discussing music or art. There is no right answer. I am in the group that finds Cuban cigars good, but not any better than the best NC brands. I have to strongly disagree with those that say NC cigars lack complexity. I have found several NC brands that exhibited as much or more complexity than the Cubans that I have smoked thus far. Included in these are the La Aurora perfectos, the Fuente Don Carlos and Hemmingway brands, and the Perdomo Reserve brands. And these cigars give me the added advantage that a) I don’t need to worry if I just got ripped off with a fake, b) I am not breaking the law by buying them, and c) I don’t have to “let them rest” for four years to get them to taste good. These points alone prejudice me in favor of the NC brands, and I am sure that is part of what contributes to the taste and overall smoking experience.


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## IHT (Dec 27, 2003)

punch said:


> Some things, like construction and burn can be measured. These, to some degree, add or detract from the overall experience.
> *{IHT - and some of us don't give a rip if the band is all kinds of cool colors w/ gold inlay and serial #s. if it tastes good, it tastes good, if it doesn't, it doesn't. if it burns and has a good draw and tastes good, that's all that most ppl are worried about. if you're worried about how the cigar looks in your mouth when you're sucking on it... well.... i'm happy for you.}*
> 
> c) I don't have to "let them rest" for four years to get them to taste good.


so... you're saying that the non-cubans you buy haven't already been aged? if that's the case, then they're false advertising when they say, "rolled with tobacco aged 3 yrs, blah, blah, blah".



c-bid about some non-cuban cigars said:


> The Padron 1926 is composed of fine sun-grown wrappers - plus all tobaccos used the blend are aged a full 5 years.
> 
> The Vintage Cabinet series features vintage leaves aged at least 5 years. A smooth, buttery taste.
> 
> ...


^^ i can't continue quoting all these fine cigars claims of being "PRE-AGED" - and all more than 4 yrs like you say cuban cigars need to be before they're smokeable.

there are tons of cuban cigars that you dont' have to age 4 yrs to smoke. and i dont' think i've seen anyone say you HAVE to age cuban cigars 4 yrs to taste good. that's not a smart statement to make by any stretch.

when you get a cuban cigar, and the date code that was on the bottom states when that cigar was boxed (they could've been sitting in a room in bundles for a few months waiting to be boxed), so the consumer has to do all the aging themselves (which is fine with me).

now, if you were to try some of your favorite non-cubans half a year after the tobacco was harvested, fermented, rolled, i'm sure you'd probably say, "boy, i should let these age 4 yrs."

as i said before: _ smoke what you like..._

what i didn't say before is what someone else had stated:
_like apples and oranges._

sorry for the tone of my reply, just calling :BS and it's NOT directed totally at Punch here... just some of the other replies as well, when they say you "have" to let a cuban age... of course, as with ALL cigars, they have to age...

anyway, apples and oranges, smoke what you like and want to smoke... but don't make statements about having to let cuban cigars age 4 yrs when the majority of non-cuban cigars are advertised to be aged with 4 yr old tobacco before it's even rolled... and have that as a reason WHY you feel non-cubans are equal to/better than cubans. 
so i could compare that new "Gurkha" that's been aged 8 yrs to a cuban cigar with the box code of '97 on it, right? would that be fair? they'd both be 8 yrs old at that point. and guess what, i wouldn't have had to let it "age 4 yrs".


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## punch (Mar 5, 2005)

IHT said:


> sorry for the tone of my reply, just calling :BS and it's NOT directed totally at Punch here... just some of the other replies as well, when they say you "have" to let a cuban age... of course, as with ALL cigars, they have to age...


No need to be sorry for your tone. Your post is your opinion and should be accepted as such. As to the "points" of you post, they are well taken. Perhaps the NC cigar makers pre-age cigars, perhaps they don't. The point that I was making is that it seems that whenever I state that I am not particularly impressed with a certain Cuban cigar, the first question I get is "what is the date code"? My answer is "Who the f#@k cares?" The reply is usually something like "Well, it takes a few years to get the full flavor from (insert brand here)". Well, that is what I think is bull$hit! If that is the case, wait a few years before charging me full price for the stick! I have not heard this excuse nearly as much for NC cigars, or for that matter, at all.

So, being somewhat of a simpleton, I prefer to buy what I can smoke now. If the whole aging Cuban thing is BS, then I thank you for the info. If the NC's are pre-aged, then I thank the manufacturer for taking the time to put out a quality product.

BTW - I don't believe that I have ever tried any of the products that you listed. The only cigar that I have tried that "claims" to be aged is the Cusano 18, and I did NOT find the few of those that I smoked any better than the Cubans. If the Auroras and Fuentes that I mentioned are, indeed, presented as pre-aged, then please accept my appology for my ignorant statement in my earlier post. As to the tobacco being pre-aged before rolling, I was under the impression that all good cigars were made with tobacco that had some time on it. If this is not the case with the Cubans, again please excuse my ignorance. It would certainly go a long way to explaining things, and indeed put the whole matter into the apples / oranges category.


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## IHT (Dec 27, 2003)

punch, PM sent.

everyone else, sorry about being a jackass in my last post. was in a rush, didn't really read it to see how it came off...


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## 5thDan (Mar 15, 2005)

MocoBird said:


> IMHO.....I find that some well aged, quaility "domestic" cigar can really give some Cubans a run for their money.
> I went with.....
> 
> "I think that Cubans are great but that there are a lot of NC's that rival them".......with a little age!


I agree. Since I've only been back into smoking gars for about a year and my palate is still maturing and changing. But, being close to Canada, I do have the chance to smoke a ISOM on occasion. I find the NC give me as much enjoyment and pleasure as the ISOM's.

:u


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## coppertop (Dec 29, 2003)

Churchlady said:


> So for me, it's not just that it's a cuban, it's what flavor, size and mood that set what cigar I'm going to prefer.


Well said, couldn't have put it any better if I tried.


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## CrazyFool (Oct 2, 2005)

is it me or are most cubans full as hell in body? Ive had a Cohiba, ROmeo, Punch, H Upman and a (im blanking....) (lost it) well anyway most of the cubans ive had were a little overly full (for me) in body


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## jgros001 (Jun 14, 2005)

CrazyFool said:


> is it me or are most cubans full as hell in body? Ive had a Cohiba, ROmeo, Punch, H Upman and a (im blanking....) (lost it) well anyway most of the cubans ive had were a little overly full (for me) in body


I'd recommend giving the ERDM Choix a try.


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## vic_c (Sep 7, 2005)

I like both there are many great NC's....the cubans just taste different.


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## Blueface (May 28, 2005)

jgros001 said:


> I'd recommend giving the ERDM Choix a try.


Sublimes are very medium.
Quite a bit different than most Cohibas.

Trinidad Robusto Extra are very medium also.

There may be others out there but most of the rest from the ones I have tried are in fact pretty much full bodied. 
That is primarily what they been known for all these years.
Having smoked ISOMs 55 out of his 70 years, to this day, if the cigar does not leave a lasting bite/sting in the mouth/tongue, my dad is not happy with it. Give him a Romeo Hermoso 2 EL, or a Partagas 898 Varnished, or a Por Larranaga Londsdale and the man is in heaven. Those three are amongst the strongest I recall having.


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## colgate (Jan 18, 2005)

Bud Light v Guinness
hooking a sunfish v hooking a bonefish
wet aged v dry aged steak

oh there's a difference and it's not imaginary
or like the commercial says
Oh yeah they're plastic, and they're spectacular!

But seriously I think some real gems exist in the world of under 3 buck NC's. For instance, I've yet to have a Puro Indios green label that didn't hit the spot. Sure I usually put it down a lot sooner than my favorite habano but still it's a good enough to tide me over kind of smoke.


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## piperman (Sep 8, 2005)

The cigars I get are unbanded and most of them run 5.00 to 7.00 bucks for that price they are better than cubans. they are hand rolled right in front of me in a little shop Called "cigars" her in Mesa Az by a little cuban.

http://www.habanostorres.com


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## KraZieMaN55 (Oct 2, 2005)

I like both ISOM and NC. Yesterday I smoked a Punch Rare Corojo Magnum and it was great! Down to my last few of these I’ve been saving from 2001. Bottom line is, it’s a matter of preference and I don’t think anyone particular origin is superior to another. However, I do feel that ISOM has a certain taste that you can’t find in any NC and also, more complexities in flavors.


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## awhitaker (Sep 23, 2005)

Quite frankly I haven't found a cigar I wouldn't smoke. There's a certain joy that comes from lighting up a cigar and just relaxing. It caps off a busy day, a long weekend, a good dinner, or a morning cup of coffee. Granted there are some that I wish could last forever and then there are some that I wish would end soon, but all in all it's the act of smoking a cigar that pleases me. 

Of all the ISOMS I've had, I've enjoyed. I really haven't had a bad ISOM but I really haven't shopped in the bargain basement for an ISOM. Of all the NC's I've had, I've had a couple that I wish would end soon but I've also expected that since I have some bundles from the bargain basement we recognize as CBID or CHELL. But I've also found some enjoyable bargains that I wouldn't have if I would have just gone by word of mouth. 

In the end, when it comes cigars vs. no cigars, I prefer cigars. And a great one is always better than a good one but a good one is always better than no cigar at all.


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## DWSC_Bob (Sep 12, 2005)

awhitaker said:


> In the end, when it comes cigars vs. no cigars, I prefer cigars. And a great one is always better than a good one but a good one is always better than no cigar at all.


Well said and supports the point I was trying to make in the recent podcast. SOmetimes we get to concerned with smoking the 'right' cigars instead of the act itself.


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## colgate (Jan 18, 2005)

cubans vs dominicans? cubans 124, dominicans 0.
cubans vs hondurans? cubans 180, hondurans 0.
cubans vs the rest of the world? hmm, cubans 55, rest of the world 0.

da cubans.


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## Corona Gigante-cl (Sep 8, 2005)

I've smoked $10 DRs that have definitely rivalled or bettered the poorer $10 ISOMs I've smoked. Of course, usually it's not so easy to get the best DRs at MSRP.

None of the worst (harshest, nastiest tasting) I have smoked have been Cubans.

Some (not all, maybe not even most) of the best cigars (tastiest, most satisfying) I have smoked were Cubans.

Most of the most inspid, wish-I-could-have-that-hour-of-my-life-back-so-I-could-smoke-a-decent-cigar-instead were Cubans. Fakes? Maybe some of them, but definitely not all. "Sick period"? Maybe, I don't know.

It kind of sucks when you finally find a reputable dealer and pay top dollar for a product and for shipping and then you're advised to put them away in a controlled environment for a year or two before you can even smoke them. I can buy an Ashton VSG at my local B&M and smoke it that night or dry it out in my humi for a few weeks and be guaranteed of a consistent, enjoyable experience. It's the variability of the Cuban experience that's putting me off buying them more than the price or any other consideration.


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## dayplanner (Dec 11, 1997)

Cuba>everything else.


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## cwaddell_1 (Feb 27, 2004)

I'm with the majority on this one. I really like Cubans but there are a lot of nc's that I enjoy as well.


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## calistogey (Jun 14, 2005)

Most of the guys who know me thinks I'm some sort of an ISOM snob. Okay I'm pretty close, but nobody likes a snob.


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