# Don't ask don't tell policy



## opus

I have been burned for the last time. I know it has happened to others as well. I am no longer divulging sources to anyone that has been here less than 6 months and that I have not dealt with personally before, so *PLEASE DO NOT ASK *as I *will not tell*. I am tired of being burned by careless young gorillas. Sorry to be so blunt but apparently that is all that will work with some. This time it took less than 24 hours. No offense to anyone in particular, just a lesson I have finally learned the hard way. Shame on me.


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## mike32312

You know you try to help someone out and they F^$K things up. Cs is suck a great site with such willing helpful BOTL, they we try to help out the newbies and it ends up biting us in the ass. I agree, guidelines have been put in place for a reason. Newbies need to establish themselves first. Sorry for whatever happened Opus but your absolutely right. Point made.


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## RcktS4

I think it goes without saying that sources should be held very closely - it's sort of like the 'sex partner pyramide' in reverse - not only are you exposing the source to the person you contact, you are also exposing the source to everyone THEY tell about it, and everyone THEY tell, and on and on and on. Good sources DO go away.

I guess I must come off as a complete jerkoff, because I pretty much never get asked for sources. I have shared a couple with people I trust very highly, but very few.

When I was new here, I respectfully asked a red-haired bastage of a copper-topped gorilla if he might help me out with sources, and the answer I got stayed with me: he politely declined, saying he'd been burned in the past, but very kindly offered to send me a small sampler to try. He nicely let me know that I needed to be around for more than a couple of months and a couple doxen posts before he'd trust me with sources. Classy way to handle it, IMO, and one that I've copied ever since (and NO, this is not an invitation to mooch smokes off me, so don't bother.)

Cubans are illegal, and I like them too much to risk my sources (and a LOT of other people's sources as well) on someone I have no real reason to trust.

Sorry you got burned Skip.


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## LasciviousXXX

That sucks, I echo the sentiments of Raney (something I will hardly ever do, so pay attention) and have to say that I get asked quite often about sources by some of the newer folk. I've politely declined most and given out a couple but the good ones you hold onto until you know the person very very well. 

Sorry to hear about the troubles skip, what happened?


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## Roger Miller"

Believe me -- sources do "go bad". They have a business to run and markets to protect. I don't blame them at all for shutting down. Here is a quote from a very wise man:



A_Very_Wise_Man said:


> This is the kind of thing that I keep trying to warn people about. All of a sudden people have sources for getting Cuban cigars, they start overspending on their credit cards, telling all their friends, posting about it, then thinking they're BIG experts, all this just draws the wrong attention.


There was a thread recently started, i forget where, where the intention of the post was to develop a PM system for exchanging vendors. I just shook my head -- imbeciles. Not only do the vendors react to the strain -- so does Customs.

_____
rm


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## cvm4

Join the club. I rarely ever divulge my sources. Not to mention when some new guy PM's me and they have a limited number of posts, it makes me feel ackward so I just don't respond. I go by the "loose lips sink ships" mentality.


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## onlyonerm

I certainly can understand and respect why you want to keep your sources guarded, but just from another perspective those of us who have no sources don't really know where else to turn. I hope you will keep in mind that it is the occasional bad apple that makes you feel this way and not the majority of us.

For those of you with no access to Habanos you can try what I did. Try to find and buy a sought after NC box and offer some trades and hope to get some habanos in return. I personally bought a box of God of Fires by Carlito and was able to trade for some nice ISOM cigars thanks to a very generous BOTL.

Just a thought.


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## Rituxumab

:tpd:


onlyonerm said:


> I certainly can understand and respect why you want to keep your sources guarded, but just from another perspective those of us who have no sources don't really know where else to turn. I hope you will keep in mind that it is the occasional bad apple that makes you feel this way and not the majority of us.
> 
> For those of you with no access to Habanos you can try what I did. Try to find and buy a sought after NC box and offer some trades and hope to get some habanos in return. I personally bought a box of God of Fires by Carlito and was able to trade for some nice ISOM cigars thanks to a very generous BOTL.
> 
> Just a thought.


bump


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## Roger Miller"

onlyonerm said:


> I certainly can understand and respect why you want to keep your sources guarded, but just from another perspective those of us who have no sources don't really know where else to turn. I hope you will keep in mind that it is the occasional bad apple that makes you feel this way and not the majority of us.
> 
> .


Sorry, i don't agree. I think the issue is proliferation -- it's hard to avoid.

Now, if you are new to a source and you buy half a dozen or so boxes a year, and *NEVER* tell anybody else -- ok, fine, probably not a big deal. But that's the exception i believe, not the rule. Some of the best vendors are no longer taking new customers -- why do you think that is?

_____
rm


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## ToddziLLa

Roger Miller" said:


> Some of the best vendors are no longer taking new customers -- why do you think that is?


Two words:

DA

KLUGS

:r :w


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## Mbraud4

ToddziLLa said:


> Two words:
> 
> DA
> 
> KLUGS
> 
> :r :w


:tpd:


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## jgros001

onlyonerm said:


> I certainly can understand and respect why you want to keep your sources guarded, but just from another perspective those of us who have no sources don't really know where else to turn. I hope you will keep in mind that it is the occasional bad apple that makes you feel this way and not the majority of us.


This is the response I hate. Really, you don't need anyone to tell you a source. Use the search function...use google. It is not that hard to find a reliable source. Now reliable sources with aged stock is something of another story. 
:c


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## mike32312

Ok so I'm new and don't have any sources. Will some BOTL send me some sampler packs. :r :r :w :sl :sl


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## CrazyFool

(this is not sarcastic at all) I dont get how telling someone a resource could burn you in the end. what is happening? i have 3 great sources and when someone asks i make sure they are a true BOTL (time tested) and honestly i give them my #2 and 3 source because i have close relations with my #1.

but back to my (completley innocent but probably stupid) question, how are you getting burned? is the store not accepting your orders? are the newbies taking your info and then dissapearing in to the night? help a confused gorilla so i dont make the same mistakes!


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## Rituxumab

mike32312 said:


> Ok so I'm new and don't have any sources. Will some BOTL send me some sampler packs.
> 
> I always look forward to your responses.
> 
> LMAO...:al


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## Rituxumab

jgros001 said:


> This is the response I hate. Really, you don't need anyone to tell you a source. Use the search function...use google. It is not that hard to find a reliable source. Now reliable sources with aged stock is something of another story.
> :c


If only the rest of us were as savy as you. :fu


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## jgros001

Rituxumab said:


> If only the rest of us were as savy as you. :fu


Savvy!!! :fu


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## sgresso

Can I have all of your sources?


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## sgresso

j/k

Thankfully I have not had to ask for anything.
If you get to know ppl the info is available in time.


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## ToddziLLa

CrazyFool said:


> (this is not sarcastic at all) I dont get how telling someone a resource could burn you in the end. what is happening?


Well, I'll tell you.

Those vendors with aged stock is just that. STOCK. Once it runs out, buh bye. You tell someone your source, a few weeks later say 10 people know, and BAM, no more stock with age. They buy it all. No more soup for you.


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## RcktS4

Please don't be offended by this, but for those of you who don't understand why giving out sources is so potentially damaging: you are the last people I want to have access to my sources. If you cannot see the downsides, then you will not treat these relationships with the respect that I believe they need. That's my belief.

Mo has spelled all of this out with extraordinary clarity in the "Sources for Cuban Cigars" sticky - please consider reading it carefully.

In short: what makes a source _good_ is a relatively controlled amount of 'exposure' - exposure to customs and, YES, exposure to other buyers who may be something less than brilliant in their dealings. The truth is that if it were easy for anyone who wanted them to buy cuban cigars, there would be very little access to good cuban cigars because they would all be gone. There is one very well-known vendor who, up until about a year ago (when he was publicly named in another forum) was a tremendous source for very hgih quality, very well-priced cigars including a lot with 2-4 years of age on them sold at no premium. Now the prices are still good, but the stock is almost all six months old or less, and shipping time has practically tripled due to the volume of orders.

Now some will say this is an elitist position: correct. I believe that if it requires effort, honor, and more than a little bit of patience to get access to these sources, everyone who DOES get access will treat them with more respect, and only those who have a real passion for the hobby will get to them.

I did not really understand this when i was new here, but some very helpful people explained it to me, and eventually I found a few breadcrumbs that I managed to have confirmed by people who I had given some degree of reason to trust me.

In short: if you can't wait a few months and "pay your dues", so to speak, then I frankly don't have any interest in helping you with sources. In fact, I sincerely hope no one else does either, as they are probably giving you some of my contacts as well.

There is one exception I will amke to the above: I will ALWAYS tell someone if I have reason to think a vendor is selling fakes or crap. I have no interest in anyone ever being ripped off.

/rant


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## ComicBookFreak

RcktS4 said:


> Please don't be offended by this, but for those of you who don't understand why giving out sources is so potentially damaging: you are the last people I want to have access to my sources. If you cannot see the downsides, then you will not treat these relationships with the respect that I believe they need. That's my belief.
> 
> Mo has spelled all of this out with extraordinary clarity in the "Sources for Cuban Cigars" sticky - please consider reading it carefully.
> 
> In short: what makes a source _good_ is a relatively controlled amount of 'exposure' - exposure to customs and, YES, exposure to other buyers who may be something less than brilliant in their dealings. The truth is that if it were easy for anyone who wanted them to buy cuban cigars, there would be very little access to good cuban cigars because they would all be gone. There is one very well-known vendor who, up until about a year ago (when he was publicly named in another forum) was a tremendous source for very hgih quality, very well-priced cigars including a lot with 2-4 years of age on them sold at no premium. Now the prices are still good, but the stock is almost all six months old or less, and shipping time has practically tripled due to the volume of orders.
> 
> Now some will say this is an elitist position: correct. I believe that if it requires effort, honor, and more than a little bit of patience to get access to these sources, everyone who DOES get access will treat them with more respect, and only those who have a real passion for the hobby will get to them.
> 
> I did not really understand this when i was new here, but some very helpful people explained it to me, and eventually I found a few breadcrumbs that I managed to have confirmed by people who I had given some degree of reason to trust me.
> 
> In short: if you can't wait a few months and "pay your dues", so to speak, then I frankly don't have any interest in helping you with sources. In fact, I sincerely hope no one else does either, as they are probably giving you some of my contacts as well.
> 
> There is one exception I will amke to the above: I will ALWAYS tell someone if I have reason to think a vendor is selling fakes or crap. I have no interest in anyone ever being ripped off.
> 
> /rant


Well said Raney!!!

CBF:w


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## (909)

jgros001 said:


> This is the response I hate. Really, you don't need anyone to tell you a source. Use the search function...use google. It is not that hard to find a reliable source. Now reliable sources with aged stock is something of another story.
> :c


Exactly

you boys hear that??? :sl

Now do you feel Savvy??


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## Herf_Nerder

I personally would like to find a source, but I understand it is such a sensitive topic, that I think I am just better off lurking around looking for "breadcrumbs" so I can find my own in time.

Once I have a source or two of my own, only then could I even begin to think about PMing one of the senior gorillas about ISOM info, and it would only be with the notion that I would like to compare the ones I have found to any other sources out there. 

Like one poster said, just do enough searching on your own on this site, google, etc, all of the information is out there if you know how to look. I have been doing some casual checking around, and I believe there are possibly some decent ones anyone out there can find... Hopefully I'm not completely wrong in my assumptions...


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## (909)

It seems funny to me that there are retailers that advertise here day in and day out in the pop up ads and in the Retailers section and that the Sourceless among us still have to ask for sources. It's like CSI, use the clues and figure it out yourself.:r


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## ky toker

I'm the same way with my ****.


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## bpegler

I am just a simple newbie, but the way I found this forum was through Google searches. I was doing some research of my own into the availabilty of certain cigars I had only smoked overseas. While I can appreciate that there may be certain vendors who provide extraordinary value and/or product, for those who are willing to do a little work, there are tons of pretty good deals out there. I just take the attitude that if it looks to good to be true, it probably is.  So far I haven't been burned.

I guess time will tell...


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## SeanGAR

I'm not elitist and I'll share my source:

www.wherethehellcanIbuysomecubans.com

If the page doesn't load for you, you've failed the security check.


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## tnorthern

I will offer my $.02 only because I new to this board and I can (sort of) relate to the eagerness of a newb wanting to buy some ISOMs. First thing that most notice when trying to buy is that the prices seem high and you can rarely buy less than a fiver of any given line so the risk if you do get ripped off is greater than with NCs. Also it is a kind of rush to have something that most can't get and you do feel like you are elite once you acomplish that. 
I joined this board in search of like minded folks who enjoy the same hobby as me not in search of Cubans. It could be very different for every other member that joins, thus the caution that older members can and should exercise. I made the mistake of posting a response in the vendor section early on and a more experienced member took the time to let me know that this was not advisable. It could have gone very differently and could have completely changed my view of this board if that member had thrashed me instead of gently swatting me. 
I think that even as a new member it is up to us to handle some of our fellow gorillas with kid gloves at first and if they are persistant then be more forcefull. Obviously you don't owe it to anybody to divulge your sources, that doesn't necessarily give us the right to be outright rude to someone who may or may not know better. 
That being said free will is still a personal right so it is in each of us to determine how to handle situations that arise in our daily lives.


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## bpegler

SeanGAR said:


> I'm not elitist and I'll share my source:
> 
> www.wherethehellcanIbuysomecubans.com
> 
> If the page doesn't load for you, you've failed the security check.


I am amazed! Who knew I could purchase cuban black and milds with a tip!

Great website...


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## drevim

ToddziLLa said:


> Two words:
> 
> DA
> 
> KLUGS
> 
> :r :w


Scary how I was thining the same thing....Dave ruining it for everyone, leave the rest of us a little, you bully :r !!!

Seriously, I guess I fall in the inbetween. I'm still very new, but I do have some decent sources. I will admit to making the newb mistake of asking, after about a week on the site, and taking the :sl for doing so. It is a "all good things come to those who wait" situation to be sure. I know there is nothing new being said here, that isn't covered in the sticky, but get out and know some people, herf, chat, whatever.

I guess I don't know about the glory times, when there were boxes and cabs to be had all around. Hell, it's tough enough to find new boxes of stuff, much less aged. I don't mean to sound naive, I know there are vendors still hidden from me, but even the vendors I have with aged stock, seem to struggle with new sticks, and charge a premium for aged. I guess it's all business.

I personally have gotten a number of requests for sources, in my short time here, and always appreciate the hateful PM back, after I tell them to stick around for a while (way to influence people to help you).

Sorry, done rambling now!!!


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## ToddziLLa

(909) said:


> It seems funny to me that there are retailers that advertise here day in and day out in the pop up ads and in the Retailers section and that the Sourceless among us still have to ask for sources. It's like CSI, use the clues and figure it out yourself.:r


:tpd: Exactly. BANNERS anyone? :r


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## Jeff

Its like getting security clearance. No one will just hand the passcodes over to you until they see you have a reliable history.

I don't get what the big deal is about putting in some time on the forum and getting to know people? There aren't many good things in this world that one dosn't have to earn.


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## ToddziLLa

Jeff said:


> There aren't many good things in this world that one dosn't have earn.


Yea huh....YUENGLING!!!!!!!! :c :c :c

[/threadjack]


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## Puffy69

Here ya go Todd.









I dont ask for Sources anymore. I got tired of being denied, so I did my own research. Ive found some good ones out there and realized that its not Rocket Surgery although there are some Gems out there that I wish I had. I guess in due time someone will confied in me. And then I will Slip Slide Away.Lol..


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## icehog3

ToddziLLa said:


> :tpd: Exactly. BANNERS anyone? :r


My first purchases were from a vendor who advertises in the retailer forum here and has a banner ad. I didn't PM people I hardly knew yet and ask for anything. I made my purchases, learned what I liked, and continued to participate here.

Eventually, certain members who I did splits with and traded with divulged a source or two. And those are sources I might give to someone that I form a RELATIONSHIP with here...not just someone who I've rarely or never talked to who PMs me for a source.

Then, there are a couple sources that I have been given and asked not to pass along. I have enough respect for the members who shared those sources with me to honor their requests.

Give one of the retailers here (banner or Forum) a try. Feel free to PM me about a source you are already aware of, and I will tell you if my dealings (if any) have been positive. But I won't give you a source without having some type of relationship with you...I think that's fair, huh?


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## tnorthern

icehog3 said:


> Give one of the retailers here (banner or Forum) a try. Feel free to PM me about a source you are already aware of, and I will tell you if my dealings (if any) have been positive. But I won't give you a source without having some type of relationship with you...I think that's fair, huh?


Couldn't be fairer. I totally agree with you.


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## ss396

a hint for new guys with no sources. there are box splits and people selling really good cigars in the WTS every day. i scored some really nice aged sticks for myself from cool members. try that and be resourceful, you will be rewarded.


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## woobie

Guys I would like to thank you for all the responses to the OP. I too wondered what was meant by being burned, I assumed it meant being nabbed by customs and nothing else, not that that is a good thing.

Your responses have shown me it's much more than just that.


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## MiamiE

Roger Miller" said:


> Some of the best vendors are no longer taking new customers -- why do you think that is?


Oh so true! Im feeling this right now, especially with vendors with aged stock. Thankfully though no one has PM'd me asking for sources which i see as a blessing. Myself and a couple other Florida BOTL share most of the same sources and IMO they're best kept in this tight group. :c


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## justinphilly-cl

(909) said:


> It seems funny to me that there are retailers that advertise here day in and day out in the pop up ads and in the Retailers section and that the Sourceless among us still have to ask for sources. It's like CSI, use the clues and figure it out yourself.:r


yeah, its like...HELLO!!! right in front of you!!!!


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## MiamiE

justinphilly said:


> yeah, its like...HELLO!!! right in front of you!!!!


Im not gonna lie. I screwed up when i first started. Search for some of my first posts and you'll see what a noobie is all about. Its better if you dont figure it out until your ready.


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## PuroBrat

I have been around here for a few years (gar boards in general) and never had a "Source" until recently when I guy I used to work with sent my name and email Addy to a "Source" and vouched for me. I have yet to buy from this source but Sam does send me emails from time to time.

The smokes of the forbidden variety that I have purchased have all been singles at a premium price from a vendor in HK who readily advertises in the forums. I still got B***h slapped, for mentioning HIS name, by more than one FOG around here (no names).

I can understand fully the protective nature when guarding a good source, but if that source has banner ads at all the gar sites, what's the big deal of mentioning their name when someone hasn't noticed the banner and asks for a source? I mean, a secret is only worth keeping if it IS a secret.:2


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## MiamiE

IMO, even if the vendor decides to post an ad, its still taboo to speak about any vendors AT ALL! It only causes or can cause problems as seen by this event with Skip. (OpusOx)


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## icehog3

PuroBrat said:


> I can understand fully the protective nature when guarding a good source, but if that source has banner ads at all the gar sites, what's the big deal of mentioning their name when someone hasn't noticed the banner and asks for a source? I mean, a secret is only worth keeping if it IS a secret.:2


Because that's the way pds wants it....end of story.


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## catfishm2

I think it's all part of the "I want it now" attitude. And to me that's the surest way of not getting it. Relationships have to be cultivated, a little legwork has to be done. Patience is a virtue. Lots of times things come when you least expect it. As was mentioned earlier, "loose lips do sink ships." Those were the words of wisdom I was given and I think it is very appropriate. Become involved in CS, contribute, cultivate friendships, and things will come in time.


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## opus

catfishm2 said:


> I think it's all part of the "I want it now" attitude. And to me that's the surest way of not getting it. Relationships have to be cultivated, a little legwork has to be done. Patience is a virtue. Lots of times things come when you least expect it. As was mentioned earlier, "loose lips do sink ships." Those were the words of wisdom I was given and I think it is very appropriate. Become involved in CS, contribute, cultivate friendships, and things will come in time.


:tpd: Couldn't say it ant better than that Mark.


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## PuroBrat

icehog3 said:


> Because that's the way pds wants it....end of story.


This here is as good a reason as anyone needs. And it IS the end of the story, from a functional standpoint. But the little boy in me still begs WHY do he want it that way.:r


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## icehog3

PuroBrat said:


> This here is as good a reason as anyone needs. And it IS the end of the story, from a functional standpoint. But the little boy in me still begs WHY do he want it that way.:r


Maybe you should kick the crap outta that little boy? ;-)


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## PuroBrat

icehog3 said:


> Maybe you should kick the crap outta that little boy? ;-)


Wife beats that little boy every day, but he still keeps askin' WHY?

:r


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## slcraiders

PuroBrat said:


> This here is as good a reason as anyone needs. And it IS the end of the story, from a functional standpoint. But the little boy in me still begs WHY do he want it that way.:r


That was funny, Purobutt. "Little boy in me". Grabbing my rib cage, I am laughing so damn hard. End of story.


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## Da Klugs

Lot's of good advice here. Being invovled in our community will ultimately afford you the knowledge of those you get to know and earn trust from. There are many ways to get involved here. PIF's, MAF, Newbie Sampler, WTS, reviewing cigars you smoke, etc.

Just remember, it's a pay to play sport and here many times it's pay it forward. If you don't know what that means, you shouldn't be asking anyone for their hard earned sources. :2


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## PuroBrat

slcraiders said:


> That was funny, Purobutt


WTF :c I am going to assume that was a typographical error, otherwise I am going to have to get out of my chair and do some major.....

crying.


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## slcraiders

Weep away, Purobutt. :BS


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## PuroBrat

slcraiders said:


> Weep away, Purobutt. :BS


I shall not weep over your assessment after all. You are obviously correct, I mean, look at your immediate popularity. Well done!:r


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## One Lonely Smoker

onlyonerm said:


> I certainly can understand and respect why you want to keep your sources guarded, but just from another perspective those of us who have no sources don't really know where else to turn. I hope you will keep in mind that it is the occasional bad apple that makes you feel this way and not the majority of us.
> 
> For those of you with no access to Habanos you can try what I did. Try to find and buy a sought after NC box and offer some trades and hope to get some habanos in return. I personally bought a box of God of Fires by Carlito and was able to trade for some nice ISOM cigars thanks to a very generous BOTL.
> 
> Just a thought.


Geezus, 4 pages in one day. That has to be a record. My opinion, for what it's worth is, if a person has been here long enough to qualify for some of the systems suggested here, they would likely already have a source. hehe. As for me, and you know who you are, the people that I gave a source to had better hope they don't F it up, or they will pay dearly. It also seems to me that the people who get a source and then use it for 3-4 boxes a year have no reason to even ask for a source. I mean, why bother. You are either in or you are out. But it also seems to me that the people who only nibble at a source are also the people most likely to give that source out in the proliferation scheme suggested above. "look at me, I have a source, here it is boys." (sound of source being given to a dozen people)
So I agree. The people that have been granted a source from me should feel lucky in that it will not be happening again. My main man sent me a free copy of the second printing of the White Bible today. I can only imagine that it is for my continued hard-core patronage. This is a guy that is way too valuable to waste, but I also feel compelled to help him out when I can since he will tell you that he is not near as busy as some vendors, without actually saying he needs all the customers he can get. But when I send a person his way, youcan bet they are not some dumb-ass off the assembly line. 
As for the question offered on page 1 "what is a person to do if sources are held closely?" Do what I did. I looked hard for a month or so, narrowed the list down based on what I thought were some solid thoughts on red flags and sent my money out. Got burnt the second time out, moved on, got burned 6 months later, moved on and then found Mr Right. NEVER SPENT ANOTHER PENNY WITH ANYONE ELSE!!! Why bother? Good ones are VERY hard to find. And guess what? I lost about 1200 dollars before I found him. Maybe half of that was not truly lost, but when someone sends you 8 boxes of real and two fake, it might as well be 10 fake for all you can trust them.
DO YOUR OWN WORK and feel good about it on the back end. No one needs a source given to them. Just ask the people who left CA in disgust, and there were a ton of them. Bottom line is it might be really exasperating being turned down for a source, and you may feel like the only person in the world being treated badly, but you need to grow up. This is a forum for people that buy and enjoy Cuban cigars, not for people who are looking for sources. If you have an interest in CCs and come in from other parts of this site, don't be a dick. If you have no source, itmight be because you aren't ready for it yet or the people here do not feel like you can handle it. Crass, maybe. But hey, ask OPUSOX what he got for his trouble. Sure, most people here are happy to mentor, but like I said, people who do not regularly purchase CCs should use this forum for what it is, a learning experience and nothing more. It is a huge resource, but alot of people "don't have the time" to read and learn. They are here for only one reason, and they won't admit it. Not to paint em all with the same brush, but you'd be surprised how often the shoe fits. I can guarantee by the time you have read through all the posts that interest you WAY BACK through page 20 or whatever, chances are you will have read, contributed, asked, learned and eventually found a source by dead reckoning. 
You don't need to ask me, and for that matter, I won't share anymore either.

well, probably not, anyway.


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## slcraiders

PuroBrat said:


> I shall not weep over your assessment after all. You are obviously correct, I mean, look at your immediate popularity. Well done!:r


Oh, Purobutt -aka- Puromooch. I did not know this was a popularity contest. I would have worn my best suit.

I am sorry that I do not fit in with you and your followers (rejects).


----------



## Da Klugs

slcraiders said:


> Oh, Purobutt -aka- Puromooch. I did not know this was a popularity contest. I would have worn my best suit.
> 
> I am sorry that I do not fit in with you and your followers (rejects).


Thanks. Is it douchbag or douch bag?


----------



## slcraiders

Da Klugs said:


> Thanks. Is it douchbag or douch bag?


Niether, thanks. No problems with you, Da Klugs. I am writing to PuroB.... You seem like a great guy. Purob.... is simply something else.


----------



## IHT

MiamiE said:


> IMO, even if the vendor decides to post an ad, its still taboo to speak about any vendors AT ALL! It only causes or can cause problems as seen by this event with Skip. (OpusOx)


and not all vendors who post banner ads are worth a damn.


----------



## MiamiE

IHT said:


> and not all vendors who post banner ads are worth a damn.


Greg, dont put doubts in my head! :r PM incoming!


----------



## Da Klugs

slcraiders said:


> Niether, thanks. No problems with you, Da Klugs. I am writing to PuroB.... You seem like a great guy. Purob.... is simply something else.


You implied I was a "follower" (reject). That didn't seem very nice.

Do you have any personal negative experience with Michael or is this just a lemming like run here to get banned and run back to make whoopie about?

If Michael has done you, you personally, some wrong, lets hear it. Otherwise chill and enjoy your stay here.

None of us enjoy reading this type of thing. It adds nothing to anyones experience here. Why do it other than to "create an effect"? The only effect is the obvious one ... you're going to get banned if you continue to attack another member here.

Michael a mooch? Who knew!!! Wow! Duh.. we are so blind. Thank you, thank you, thank you. :r


----------



## IHT

MiamiE said:


> Greg, dont put doubts in my head! :r PM incoming!


PM replied to.


----------



## kvm

IHT said:


> and not all vendors who post banner ads are worth a damn.


I think that is part of the problem and why new members start asking for sources. Sure they can find them but they don't know if they can trust them and they don't want to get burned. As far as vendors with banner ads or posting in the retailers section, I myself would rather have a vendor that keeps a low profile. What probably stopped me from making the mistake of asking was reading Mo's post. That shed a whole new light on things and I have never asked anyone for a source. It should be mandatory reading for newbies. Opusxox can you give us a "generic" if nothing else explaination of how you got burned?


----------



## onlyonerm

kvm said:


> I think that is part of the problem and why new members start asking for sources. Sure they can find them but they don't know if they can trust them and they don't want to get burned. As far as vendors with banner ads or posting in the retailers section, I myself would rather have a vendor that keeps a low profile. What probably stopped me from making the mistake of asking was reading Mo's post. That shed a whole new light on things and I have never asked anyone for a source. It should be mandatory reading for newbies. Opusxox can you give us a "generic" if nothing else explaination of how you got burned?


Exactly, easy to type in Cuban Cigars in any search engine, I probably have 8 such sites saved in my favorites but I am not sure that is exactly an effective way to find a reputable source.


----------



## SeanGAR

onlyonerm said:


> Exactly, easy to type in Cuban Cigars in any search engine, I probably have 8 such sites saved in my favorites but I am not sure that is exactly an effective way to find a reputable source.


Well, when I want to find a reliable suplier of pipe tobacco, I put in a small order at a bunch of different vendors and see how they do. I do that a couple of times and I can narrow down those vendors that I want to buy pipe tobacco from in the future and those that I don't.


----------



## jgros001

kvm said:


> I think that is part of the problem and why new members start asking for sources. Sure they can find them but they don't know if they can trust them and they don't want to get burned. As far as vendors with banner ads or posting in the retailers section, I myself would rather have a vendor that keeps a low profile. What probably stopped me from making the mistake of asking was reading Mo's post. That shed a whole new light on things and I have never asked anyone for a source. It should be mandatory reading for newbies. Opusxox can you give us a "generic" if nothing else explaination of how you got burned?


Want to know a good source...read the archived posts...they say a lot. Email a vendor, generally shady sources do not reply quickly and when they do you get shady answers. *Ask vendors questions, know prices.* When I was starting out - I did simple google searches and cigar board searches. Each source was emailed...if I did not like the response, I moved on. No sense giving someone I do not like my money. I made some mistakes (don't think I ever flat out asked for a source) and learned. Not saying I know everything (because that is far from the truth) - but I learned a lot. Like was said before, everyday something is up for grabs on this site. There are a lot of wise words in this post alone. Even when I had a good source, I did not trust them off the bat - it takes time. Most of the members will confirm a source via pm - especially the ones that advertise. The best advice I've been given and have not gotten the opportunity to do is, go to a herf. Best way to form a relationship is to actually meet someone. I think I have rambled enough.


----------



## IHT

IHT said:


> and not all vendors who post banner ads are worth a damn.


JUST TO BE CLEAR!!

in my response that i quoted here - i was referring to another website that at one time had banner ads galore and they didn't care if the cigars had milkweed running throughout them...

i will not comment anymore... 
as i was told when i was new, DO YOUR OWN DAMN LEGWORK/RESEARCH.
this is a very touchy subject, a lot of good info has been said already...


----------



## Sandman

This is a joke. Many people hear live and breathe by this forum. The fact is there are a hell of a lot of serious smokers who could care less about being on a cigar forum. I appreciate this place for all the good info, and that is the only reason I signed up. But for some reason if you don't have enough posts or bananas you are looked upon as someone not worthy. I found some great sources by searching on my own, and I would gladly give them out to anyone. How are getting burned? Many people just want to know how to find cuban cigars, and are looking for someone reputable, to turn to. But please disrespect them due to a few bad apples. A good vendor is a good vendor, and you are not so good to have all the special cigars for yourself. But then again maybe you are due to having so many more posts. Go ahead flame the s#@t out of me, I do not live by this forum.


----------



## PaulMac

luvsmesumcigars said:


> This is a joke. Many people hear live and breathe by this forum. The fact is there are a hell of a lot of serious smokers who could care less about being on a cigar forum. I appreciate this place for all the good info, and that is the only reason I signed up. But for some reason if you don't have enough posts or bananas you are looked upon as someone not worthy. I found some great sources by searching on my own, and I would gladly give them out to anyone. How are getting burned? Many people just want to know how to find cuban cigars, and are looking for someone reputable, to turn to. But please disrespect them due to a few bad apples. A good vendor is a good vendor, and you are not so good to have all the special cigars for yourself. But then again maybe you are due to having so many more posts. Go ahead flame the s#@t out of me, I do not live by this forum.


Spoken by someone who in the future will get some nice letters from the customs service
I am hoping and praying none of my sources are the same as yours


----------



## mr.c

PaulMac said:


> Spoken by someone who in the future will get some nice letters from the customs service
> I am hoping and praying none of my sources are the same as yours


c mon paul , as c.s noob ambassador you can do better than that

o


----------



## Gordon in NM

Da Klugs said:


> Thanks. Is it douchbag or douch bag?


For some perverse reason, I find the notion that Klugs can't spell douchebag to be insanely amusing.

It has also been suggested however that there is something VERY wrong with me.

Dave, for you my brother...
http://narang.com/instructions/douchebagset.html

Gordo


----------



## PaulMac

mr.c said:


> c mon paul , as c.s noob ambassador you can do better than that
> 
> o


we all have our off days lol


----------



## cvm4

luvsmesumcigars said:


> This is a joke. Many people hear live and breathe by this forum. The fact is there are a hell of a lot of serious smokers who could care less about being on a cigar forum. I appreciate this place for all the good info, and that is the only reason I signed up. But for some reason if you don't have enough posts or bananas you are looked upon as someone not worthy. I found some great sources by searching on my own, and I would gladly give them out to anyone. How are getting burned? Many people just want to know how to find cuban cigars, and are looking for someone reputable, to turn to. But please disrespect them due to a few bad apples. A good vendor is a good vendor, and you are not so good to have all the special cigars for yourself. But then again maybe you are due to having so many more posts. Go ahead flame the s#@t out of me, I do not live by this forum.


That's your choice...Lemme know when your vendor's stock is all dried up because you gave out the source 1 too many times :sl


----------



## opus

kvm said:


> Opusxox can you give us a "generic" if nothing else explaination of how you got burned?


It's kinda like when you have that special fishing hole, or in offshore fishing that special number that always produces fish time after time. You share the numbers with a friend and instruct him to not spread it around. The next time you visit that location there are four boats anchored there and nobody is catching anything. A good fishing hole takes a lot of work to find, or is given to you in confidence and should be not be taken lightly. I will take people fishing, but rarely give out the numbers. I know guides that will be very pissed off and smash it if they find you have a handheld GPS.


----------



## PaulMac

opusxox said:


> It's kinda like when you have that special fishing hole, or in offshore fishing that special number that always produces fish time after time. You share the numbers with a friend and instruct him to not spread it around. The next time you visit that location there are four boats anchored there and nobody is catching anything. A good fishing hole takes a lot of work to find, or is given to you in confidence and should be not be taken lightly. I will take people fishing, but rarely give out the numbers. I know guides that will be very pissed off and smash it if they find you have a handheld GPS.


and then the goverment finds out you are fishing out of season and confiscates your catch!


----------



## opus

PaulMac said:


> and then the goverment finds out you are fishing out of season and confiscates your catch!


:r That is something to consider. With all those boats anchored up you get more attention from the feds, and need to move on to a new hole, not unlike procuring fine cigars.


----------



## Kayak_Rat

opusxox said:


> It's kinda like when you have that special fishing hole, or in offshore fishing that special number that always produces fish time after time. You share the numbers with a friend and instruct him to not spread it around. The next time you visit that location there are four boats anchored there and nobody is catching anything. A good fishing hole takes a lot of work to find, or is given to you in confidence and should be not be taken lightly. I will take people fishing, but rarely give out the numbers. I know guides that will be very pissed off and smash it if they find you have a handheld GPS.


I agree totally with OpusXOX, on both fishing hot spots and sources. I have been here a short time and do not as of yet have a source. Maybe because I am not ready for one, maybe for other resons I wont understand. I do however have access to a wide range of cigars cuban and NC. If there is something I want to try, I save up some money and contact one of the BOTL's I have formed great and long-term relationships(you know who you are). They are more than happy to let me sample from their sources, even if it is indirectly. It did take some time and effort, but it is well worth it. There are some great guys here and the longer I stay the more I am introduced to and am reminded of. Thanks to all of you who have been so generous to me. To the "younger bucks", take your ime and ingest as much knowledge as possible. Meet a few of these guys. Participate in the forum. Out of the blue you will find a great BOTL out there who will take you under his wing and teach you what you need to know about everything cigar related. No need to argue about sources and such. Just sit back and enjoy a good smoke, and enjoy this great forum. Thanks PDS.

Zack


----------



## Sandman

I guess I don't really understand. Out of 3 different vendors, I have had 3 different types of shipping. I'm sure that your vendors do not have such special shipping methods that they are sure to catch on. Then again what the hell do I know. All I know is that in my short time here i have repeatedly observed so called newbies get bashed for asking for a reliable source. Granted, the sources should not be displayed for all to see, but jeez we are all just looking for great cigars. I guess I am wrong for speaking my mind on this. I'm sorry.


----------



## oddball

luvsmesumcigars said:


> This is a joke.... I appreciate this place for all the good info, and that is the only reason I signed up. But for some reason if you don't have enough posts or bananas you are looked upon as someone not worthy. I found some great sources by searching on my own, and I would gladly give them out to anyone. How are getting burned? ....Go ahead flame the s#@t out of me, I do not live by this forum.


Welcome to the forum...

To sign up simply to get good info is not enough, IMO. It sounds like a cliche, but I quickly discovered that this forum is give and take, a community, if you will. BOTLs are not stupid; they do not want to be taken advantage of just like any other persons.

I have very little experience with the ISOM situation, but I found my "source" without references, just with investigation, intuition, and believe it or not, mathematics. But my first ISOMs have been acquired thru trade and purchase from some very generous people in this forum. "Stick around and be cool" is not an offhand piece of advice. This forum is "home" for many folks, what's so bad about that? Nobody likes it when people "hit and run" at their parties, why should CS members?

'Tis not a flame, just some friendly banter


----------



## Sandman

oddball said:


> Welcome to the forum...
> 
> To sign up simply to get good info is not enough, IMO. It sounds like a cliche, but I quickly discovered that this forum is give and take, a community, if you will. BOTLs are not stupid; they do not want to be taken advantage of just like any other persons.
> 
> I have very little experience with the ISOM situation, but I found my "source" without references, just with investigation, intuition, and believe it or not, mathematics. But my first ISOMs have been acquired thru trade and purchase from some very generous people in this forum. "Stick around and be cool" is not an offhand piece of advice. This forum is "home" for many folks, what's so bad about that? Nobody likes it when people "hit and run" at their parties, why should CS members?
> 
> 'Tis not a flame, just some friendly banter


I understand that this is home for a lot of people, and I respect that, but please we are all here for the same thing whether we are new to the internet forums or have been smoking for years. It is all about finding the best smoke possible. Maybe I just don't know the extent that sources are being ruined. It is hard for me to imagine.


----------



## justinphilly-cl

luvsmesumcigars said:


> I guess I don't really understand. Out of 3 different vendors, I have had 3 different types of shipping. I'm sure that your vendors do not have such special shipping methods that they are sure to catch on. Then again what the hell do I know. All I know is that in my short time here i have repeatedly observed so called newbies get bashed for asking for a reliable source. Granted, the sources should not be displayed for all to see, but jeez we are all just looking for great cigars. I guess I am wrong for speaking my mind on this. I'm sorry.


listen man, no-one is trying to dis-encourage (is that a word) you or anyone from "learning" what you can from the site.. Put it like this....Weed is illegal right? Well, you wouldnt walk into a room with a ton of people you dont know and yell, "Does anyone have nay weed?" No, you wouldn't.. Nor would you, if you knew where to get the weed, walk into a room with people you dont know and yell, "Hey, i know where you can get some weed!" No, but in due time, once we all get to know each other, we will all get high together.

Listen, i dont want to compare weed to cubans, but they are both illegal, and they both can get you, or your supplier in trouble.. So, at the risk of getting pinched, we keep the suppliers under wraps..

Please dont feel like it is a lost cause.. There are PLENTY of opportunites on this site, for you and any other newb to buy ISOM's. Just look around.. And as far as I am concerned, all newbs should REALLY appreciate and take advantage of these opportunites to get these smokes for 3 reasons

1- You dont have the risk of the gov't confiscating your stuff!

2- Back in the day, as short as a few months ago, newbs were NOT allowed to even participate in PIF's involving ISOM's.. Now after only a few posts, and some trader feedback you're in!

3- Once you buy into 1 group buy, or sampler sale, you get positive trader feedback.. Mostly by older members.. This feedback is visible to all, and once that climbs you are more and more "in" the jungle..

Just let time take its course.. I promise you that you will be giving these speeches to new members protecting "your" sources.. And you will realize the importance of keeping these sources safe.. Especially when they run out of the cigars you are so crazily looking for.. Por Larranga Petit Coronas!!!

good luck, please take this post well. Forums of any kind are finnicky, and it is only when you stick around long enough to appreciate "what" they have to offer, can you really begin to appreciate "all" that they have to offer.

peace


----------



## justinphilly-cl

luvsmesumcigars said:


> please we are all here for the same thing whether we are new to the internet forums or have been smoking for years. It is all about finding the best smoke possible.


not me, i am here to masturbate all over klugs's humidors!


----------



## PuroBrat

u Sick young man, go stand in the corner, and stop pulling on that, it is a TOOL not a toy.


justinphilly said:


> not me, i am here to masturbate all over klugs's humidors!


----------



## Sandman

justinphilly said:


> listen man, no-one is trying to dis-encourage (is that a word) you or anyone from "learning" what you can from the site.. Put it like this....Weed is illegal right? Well, you wouldnt walk into a room with a ton of people you dont know and yell, "Does anyone have nay weed?" No, you wouldn't.. Nor would you, if you knew where to get the weed, walk into a room with people you dont know and yell, "Hey, i know where you can get some weed!" No, but in due time, once we all get to know each other, we will all get high together.
> 
> Listen, i dont want to compare weed to cubans, but they are both illegal, and they both can get you, or your supplier in trouble.. So, at the risk of getting pinched, we keep the suppliers under wraps..
> 
> Please dont feel like it is a lost cause.. There are PLENTY of opportunites on this site, for you and any other newb to buy ISOM's. Just look around.. And as far as I am concerned, all newbs should REALLY appreciate and take advantage of these opportunites to get these smokes for 3 reasons
> 
> 1- You dont have the risk of the gov't confiscating your stuff!
> 
> 2- Back in the day, as short as a few months ago, newbs were NOT allowed to even participate in PIF's involving ISOM's.. Now after only a few posts, and some trader feedback you're in!
> 
> 3- Once you buy into 1 group buy, or sampler sale, you get positive trader feedback.. Mostly by older members.. This feedback is visible to all, and once that climbs you are more and more "in" the jungle..
> 
> Just let time take its course.. I promise you that you will be giving these speeches to new members protecting "your" sources.. And you will realize the importance of keeping these sources safe.. Especially when they run out of the cigars you are so crazily looking for.. Por Larranga Petit Coronas!!!
> 
> good luck, please take this post well. Forums of any kind are finnicky, and it is only when you stick around long enough to appreciate "what" they have to offer, can you really begin to appreciate "all" that they have to offer.
> 
> peace


I really appreciate this feedback. I am not looking to be rude I guess I just didn't understand. I guess it makes sense. The fact is that in the short time that I have enjoyed cigars I have smoked more isoms than NC's, due to new found internet sources and friends. I just can't stand people disrespecting others just because they are new to this site. This goes for so many other forums, not just cigar forums. I know a quite a few seasoned smokers who have absolutely no clue about Club Stogie. Sorry if I offended anyone.


----------



## OpusEx

luvsmesumcigars said:


> I understand that this is home for a lot of people, and I respect that, but please we are all here for the same thing whether we are new to the internet forums or have been smoking for years. It is all about finding the best smoke possible. Maybe I just don't know the extent that sources are being ruined. It is hard for me to imagine.


I seldom respond, but I'm in some mood tonight, so here goes. Yes it is about finding the best possible smoke and finding them requires time, trust, relationships and effort. You sir have exhibited very little to none of that in your short stay here. Some of the "best smokes" are in short supply and high demand, just like many commodities in the world today. I have no idea what your other interests are in life, partially due to the fact that you have not introduced yourself to this forum or told us anything about yourself. However, if you found a great source for wine let's say and you were an avid wine collector (and this source had limited bottles of wine that you had scoured the earth for and could find no where else) you would be happy to share that source with all that you knew? I think not, unless you had already filled your cellar to the max with what you wanted. Or would you keep that source more closely guarded to yourself with the thought of being able to continue getting that wine from the source for as long as you could? I am special? No, I'm not special, but I am enjoying the rewards of the "time, trust, relationships and effort" I have worked hard to achieve, but hey,* "I'm sorry honey, you're right, put the dog on the phone, I'll talk to him"* :r First person to respond with the originator of that quote will get a cigar I have acquired by putting in "time, trust, relationships and effort"

Now all that said, we all know that this or any "forum" for that matter (internet based or not) is not the be all end all. We all have interests and friends outside of here (although I wonder about some of you here with thousands of posts LOL). My hope, because we can never have too many of them, is that you will stay, enjoy this community, become an enthusiastic member and put it in your "time, trust, relationship and effort" and who knows, what you think has been the "best smoke" you've had will pale in comparison to that which you may have the opportunity to try while working on the items in " " 's


----------



## pnoon

OpusEx said:


> . . . but hey,* "I'm sorry honey, you're right, put the dog on the phone, I'll talk to him"* :r First person to respond with the originator of that quote will get a cigar I have acquired by putting in "time, trust, relationships and effort"


Janis Osborne?


----------



## D. Generate

Great information in this thread for those who'll actually read. Do your own legwork, earn some trust and be more patient than a six year old who wants a damn grape otterpop and wants it RIGHT NOW! Seriously, walk into any local cigar shop and there are probably a hundred plus different vitolas and marquees to experiment with. 

They are cigars, not trophies. Smoking a Habano doesn't make you cool, more influential or have better luck with women. Look at me, I've smoked some.

Anybody who disregards the information generously provided here and PM's a gorilla just for a source is an f'n idiot.


----------



## pnoon

D. Generate said:


> . . .and be more patient than a six year old who wants a damn grape otterpop and wants it RIGHT NOW!


:r 
:tpd: 
Well said, D.


----------



## Sandman

[Q
Anybody who disregards the information generously provided here and PM's a gorilla just for a source is an f'n idiot.[/QUOTE]

You just made my point.


----------



## BigDirtyFoot

OpusEx said:


> * "I'm sorry honey, you're right, put the dog on the phone, I'll talk to him"* :r First person to respond with the originator of that quote will get a cigar I have acquired by putting in "time, trust, relationships and effort"


Larry the Cable Guy?

or Ron White. Can't exactly remember whom. Actually I think it was Ron White.


----------



## OpusEx

BigDirtyFoot said:


> Larry the Cable Guy?
> 
> or Ron White. Can't exactly remember whom. Actually I think it was Ron White.


and with your "editing" skills you are CORRECT SIR! Love that bit he does about the dog taking a crap on the rug and his wife calling to tell him, like he's gonna be able to do something about it "I'm in Georgia!" LMAO "Let him out, he'll crap out there, I've seen him do it!" TFF! PM me with your mailing address please and put Ron White in the subject line


----------



## dayplanner

Luckily, for me, I found mo's post fairly quick after signing up here.
Saved me and others alot of trouble.

Protecting sources is perfectly understandable, and I can't for the life of me figure why anyone has a problem with that. That said,

NST's and PIF's have been very, very good to me.


----------



## BigDirtyFoot

Yes, I must say that Mo's post was one of the first posts I read - at least I read it within the first two or three weeks I was on Club Stogie. And it's quite a hefty thread - I almost feel like it should be madatory reading for LLGs. I never made the mistake of asking for sources - I've tried to do my own research, and now I typically ask if people have had good or bad experiences with sources, which I feel is less frowned upon.


----------



## pnoon

Someone who "gets it"



cquon said:


> Luckily, for me, I found mo's post fairly quick after signing up here.
> Saved me and others alot of trouble.
> 
> Protecting sources is perfectly understandable, and I can't for the life of me figure why anyone has a problem with that. That said,
> 
> NST's and PIF's have been very, very good to me.


Someone who doesn't



luvsmesumcigars said:


> You just made my point.


----------



## poker

Whats a source?


----------



## OpusEx

poker said:


> Whats a source?


LMAO! I have to ramble on forever :sb

and YOU just say 3 words

I guess wisdom does come with age :tg


----------



## GOAT LOCKER

BigDirtyFoot said:


> Yes, I must say that Mo's post was one of the first posts I read - I almost feel like it should be madatory reading for LLGs.


Hmm, "before posting, you must read the following post and pass the subsequent test." Sounds like a good idea!


----------



## BigDirtyFoot

Yes, it makes sense - it may even turn away some people who aren't mature enough to be here. However, I'm not sure if this is implementable, plausible, or really necessary. It seems like the CS community takes care of its problems pretty well. That's another thing to remember, since this is a community, everyone helps shape the rules that we all follow, and newcomers either decide to follow those rules, and then add/amend them later on, or leave.


----------



## MiamiE

opusxox said:


> It's kinda like when you have that special fishing hole, or in offshore fishing that special number that always produces fish time after time. You share the numbers with a friend and instruct him to not spread it around. The next time you visit that location there are four boats anchored there and nobody is catching anything. A good fishing hole takes a lot of work to find, or is given to you in confidence and should be not be taken lightly. I will take people fishing, but rarely give out the numbers. I know guides that will be very pissed off and smash it if they find you have a handheld GPS.


Oh so true. Skip if your ever around the Keys, let me know. I do a lot of fishing down there and can get you on some BIG bull sharks around the Keys bridges. Also enough mangroves, and grouper to satisfy you.


----------



## RPB67

I protect my source.

I have three. One of these is a person who lives over seas and takes care of me. They take care of me and I take care of them. I have had relationships with them for around 10 years now. Thats a long time and I have naturally built a good rep with them.

I would never ruin that. I dont think I would share my sources unless I knew the certain member would treat them rite.

Sometimes its not all about price !


----------



## PaulMac

> Anybody who disregards the information generously provided here and PM's a gorilla just for a source is an f'n idiot.





> You just made my point.


So if someone called you on the phone, without giving you their name, or telling you anything about themselves and asked you for information on how to break the law you would tell them? cause thats essentially what an unsolicited pm is like. I would also prolly call them an f'n idiot.
Its not the fact that they ask, its that they ask people who have no clue who they are, and act like its something they are entitled to and WE are the f'n jerks if we don't give it to them. They get indignant and obnoxious and cry like little babies if you don't tell them. yeah, thats someone I wanna help
It all comes down to what I been bitching about for the last week, newbies could give a crap for doing anything on their own, without doing any of the legwork themselves, some of us have spent years cultivating these relationships and we ain't about to just go, here, have at it. Dead sources are made in this way, and those of us in this game for a long time all have more than one of them. If the newbies were patient and spent the time, it will prolly be a more enjoyable experience anyway....yer prolly better off having sex with the girl down the street to gain experience before you go after Jessica Alba...cause after Jessica...its all inferior, plus ya wanna know what yer enjoying .


----------



## RPB67

PaulMac said:


> You just made my point.


So if someone called you on the phone, without giving you their name, or telling you anything about themselves and asked you for information on how to break the law you would tell them? cause thats essentially what an unsolicited pm is like. I would also prolly call them an f'n idiot.
Its not the fact that they ask, its that they ask people who have no clue who they are, and act like its something they are entitled to and WE are the f'n jerks if we don't give it to them. They get indignant and obnoxious and cry like little babies if you don't tell them. yeah, thats someone I wanna help
It all comes down to what I been bitching about for the last week, newbies could give a crap for doing anything on their own, without doing any of the legwork themselves, some of us have spent years cultivating these relationships and we ain't about to just go, here, have at it. Dead sources are made in this way, and those of us in this game for a long time all have more than one of them. If the newbies were patient and spent the time, it will prolly be a more enjoyable experience anyway....yer prolly better off having sex with the girl down the street to gain experience before you go after Jessica Alba...cause after Jessica...its all inferior, plus ya wanna know what yer enjoying .[/QUOTE]

Do tell more about Jessica !!! :r

Good post...


----------



## Sandman

PaulMac said:


> So if someone called you on the phone, without giving you their name, or telling you anything about themselves and asked you for information on how to break the law you would tell them? cause thats essentially what an unsolicited pm is like. I would also prolly call them an f'n idiot.
> Its not the fact that they ask, its that they ask people who have no clue who they are, and act like its something they are entitled to and WE are the f'n jerks if we don't give it to them. They get indignant and obnoxious and cry like little babies if you don't tell them. yeah, thats someone I wanna help
> It all comes down to what I been bitching about for the last week, newbies could give a crap for doing anything on their own, without doing any of the legwork themselves, some of us have spent years cultivating these relationships and we ain't about to just go, here, have at it. Dead sources are made in this way, and those of us in this game for a long time all have more than one of them. If the newbies were patient and spent the time, it will prolly be a more enjoyable experience anyway....yer prolly better off having sex with the girl down the street to gain experience before you go after Jessica Alba...cause after Jessica...its all inferior, plus ya wanna know what yer enjoying .


Fair enough. I appreciate people taking time to explain. It does make sense. I will keep my mouth shut. I guess i was just sick of seeing newbies bashed. I'm sure some deserve it.


----------



## Shaggy17sc

luvsmesumcigars said:


> Fair enough. I appreciate people taking time to explain. It does make sense. I will keep my mouth shut. I guess i was just sick of seeing newbies bashed. I'm sure some deserve it.


I don't really think its even a case of bashing. most the time it seems like its a newbie asking something that is stated in the rules to not be openly discussed, and the noobs taking offense to it.

I know of a few sources, great awesome ones?? i dunno. all I know is that they are Legit. I spoke to someone, said "I found this, and while I'm not asking for a source, I would like to know if this is a good vendor that will provide what they say they will." 
By doing that, I have not asked for sources, I've done my own legwork, I get what I want (if I have the available funds of course) and I've not broken the rules of this board, or proven myself to be someone who cant look for what they want.
There are plenty of NCs out there that I enjoy, I've had a few Cubans gifted to me by people on here, and they were great. I loved every bit of smoke that wafted (pretentious word ain't it?) from them, I also know, that since I got my own source, and verified it; that I CAN have the forbidden fruit when I want it. But why rush? Enjoy what you have and what you can get, don't test drive a Ferrari and buy a pinto.

I'm sure that rambled on, had typos and bad punctuation, and managed to not make any sense, but its the way it seems to me

David


----------



## opus

luvsmesumcigars said:


> Fair enough. I appreciate people taking time to explain. It does make sense. I will keep my mouth shut. * I guess i was just sick of seeing newbies bashed.* I'm sure some deserve it.


This thread is not newbie bashing, it may seem that way to a noob, but it is not. We are taking the time to try and explain lessons learned. My original post was not newbie bashing. Hell I didn't mention a name or give specifics because I don't agree with public flagellation. I have discussed this via PM with the gorillas involved and others just interested in more details.I still don't think you get it. I understand.

My Father tried to save me grief by telling me what he learned the hard way. When I was young I had to re-learn his lessons for myself the hard way. It can be painful in various ways. The older I get, the smarter my Father becomes. I have since learned that he is the smartest man I ever met, I just didn't know it at the time. No, I am not trying to replace your Father. We are trying to pass along some lessons learned the hard way. My Father also told me " son, when your mouth is open you are not learning a thing, keep it shut, listen and learn."

Find a gorilla that has been around for a while and pose these thoughts to him via PM. You will save yourself a lot of time and potentially embarassing memories. Again not bashing, just trying to help.


----------



## mosesbotbol

Just point them to a good British vendor that is legit but big dollars, or sterling I should say. Since I can't warrant paying those prices, I have nothing to lose by offering one of them as a potential vendor, lol...


----------



## MiamiE

mosesbotbol said:


> Just point them to a good British vendor that is legit but big dollars, or sterling I should say. Since I can't warrant paying those prices, I have nothing to lose by offering one of them as a potential vendor, lol...


True, but that may be someone elses reputable vendor


----------



## PadronMe

What's with all these long posts. I just want someone to tell me where I can get some Coobans.


:r I kid, i kid.


----------



## dadof3illinois

There is some great information here for those who will read it.

This is about gaining *trust *from fellow members and being someone who is *mature* in there dealings, not only with vendors but with members here.

If you get mad because someone doesn't give out their trusted source to you just because you asked then you have the maturity level of my 4 year old son and are most likely as reliable. If that's the case then just don't even ask!!!


----------



## RcktS4

D. Generate said:


> ... be more patient than a six year old who wants a damn grape otterpop and wants it RIGHT NOW!


[homer]mmmm.... grape otterpop... [/homer]


----------



## poker

whats a source?


----------



## RcktS4

what's a poker?


----------



## Shaggy17sc

I cant belive the mouse aint got anything to say on this.


----------



## IHT

luvsmesumcigars said:


> I guess I don't really understand. Out of 3 different vendors, I have had 3 different types of shipping. I'm sure that your vendors do not have such special shipping methods that they are sure to catch on. Then again what the hell do I know. All I know is that in my short time here i have repeatedly observed so called newbies get bashed for asking for a reliable source. Granted, the sources should not be displayed for all to see, but jeez we are all just looking for great cigars. I guess I am wrong for speaking my mind on this. I'm sorry.


you're right, you don't understand.

understand this:
you are new, nobody knows who you are. hence the term "newbie". it takes time to build TRUST among people, especially those that are doing illegal things.
if some guy walked up to you on the street as you were stealing a car, would you tell him you're stealing a car and show him how and all the other info? no, cuz you don't know him from jumpstreet.

so, newbie that none of us know or trust, when you're on a forum with ppl who work for customs, are you going to start openly talking about your sources?

i would say sit back, read, learn, and relax, but i feel more like just telling you :fu .

good thing we're more laid back here than other boards (and already have sources) - not only would nobody give you a source (ever - even after hanging around for a year), but when you finally got one from someplace else, you're name could've already made it to that source as someone NOT TO SELL TO. lucky for you, we're not like that. instead, you'll just get a :sl for being a newbie and not fully understanding the consequences of openly talking/giving out sources.


----------



## rahbass

Shaggy17sc said:


> I cant belive the mouse aint got anything to say on this.


The mouse is busy pulling his hair out in frustration.


----------



## poker

Heres a true story that happened to me on how sharing a trusted source can go bad for anyone that cares...

I had a friend (lets call him Dick) I had known for a few years. He had recently discovered cigars and like many, loved everything about them. One day I decided I would give him something he may not have had before. I handed him a mid 90's MC Especiale. Not only had he never had one, he never had a cuban cigar before, period! He was floored. He wanted & needed more.
Every week he would call me & would want to buy a couple Cubans from me. Now, Im not in the business of making money off of friends, so instead I would just give him a couple every now & then and tell him to enjoy.

One day when he asked, I thought to myself "why am I just giving this guy all my cigars? Why am I taking the risk of seizure so I can give him cigars?"
(you have to understand this was during a time in the past when hardly any vendors offered "guaranteed delivery")
I decided I would devulge & share a great reputable source with him, so he could take the risk himself and get whatever he wanted & I could get out from being the "free cigar vending machine" I had become.

I emailed this vendor to let him know I referred a friend of mine to him. He was accepted and could now order anything he wanted.
I called Dick back and told him he was good to go.

A month or so later I get a call at 11pm from this vendor asking how well do I know the guy I referred. Now Im worried.

Heres what I was told:

Dick ordered a box of aged Montecristo No 2's. The cigar were seized at US Customs. Dick got a letter. Dick emailed vendor a nasty email saying he got ripped off. The vendor replied that since I referred him, he would ship out another box without question. The 2ed box arrived without any problems.....until...
Dick decided to call his credit card company & reversed the charges claiming he never got what he paid for. :c 
My vendor took the loss of 2 boxes by a guy I personally referred.:c :c

In the end:
I offered to pay for the loss to the vendor since I felt responsible. He refused saying it wasnt my fault. I still felt like an ass.

I called Dick but never got anyting but an answering machine. I left 4 messages asking him to call me about this. Never heard from or seen Dick again after that.

The vendor is still one of my sources, but its one I will not share, nor will I ever refer anyone to them again.


----------



## (909)

poker said:


> Heres a true story that happened to me on how sharing a trusted source can go bad for anyone that cares...
> 
> I had a friend (lets call him Dick) I had known for a few years. He had recently discovered cigars and like many, loved everything about them. One day I decided I would give him something he may not have had before. I handed him a mid 90's MC Especiale. Not only had he never had one, he never had a cuban cigar before, period! He was floored. He wanted & needed more.
> Every week he would call me & would want to buy a couple Cubans from me. Now, Im not in the business of making money off of friends, so instead I would just give him a couple every now & then and tell him to enjoy.
> 
> One day when he asked, I thought to myself "why am I just giving this guy all my cigars? Why am I taking the risk of seizure so I can give him cigars?"
> (you have to understand this was during a time in the past when hardly any vendors offered "guaranteed delivery")
> I decided I would devulge & share a great reputable source with him, so he could take the risk himself and get whatever he wanted & I could get out from being the "free cigar vending machine" I had become.
> 
> I emailed this vendor to let him know I referred a friend of mine to him. He was accepted and could now order anything he wanted.
> I called Dick back and told him he was good to go.
> 
> A month or so later I get a call at 11pm from this vendor asking how well do I know the guy I referred. Now Im worried.
> 
> Heres what I was told:
> 
> Dick ordered a box of aged Montecristo No 2's. The cigar were seized at US Customs. Dick got a letter. Dick emailed vendor a nasty email saying he got ripped off. The vendor replied that since I referred him, he would ship out another box without question. The 2ed box arrived without any problems.....until...
> Dick decided to call his credit card company & reversed the charges claiming he never got what he paid for. :c
> My vendor took the loss of 2 boxes by a guy I personally referred.:c :c
> 
> In the end:
> I offered to pay for the loss to the vendor since I felt responsible. He refused saying it wasnt my fault. I still felt like an ass.
> 
> I called Dick but never got anyting but an answering machine. I left 4 messages asking him to call me about this. Never heard from or seen Dick again after that.
> 
> The vendor is still one of my sources, but its one I will not share, nor will I ever refer anyone to them again.


"Lets call him Dick" thats great!!!


----------



## kvm

This should be posted in the sources for cuban cigars thread. Rates right up there with Mo's story. Amazing some of the $hit that people will do.


----------



## scc135

I'm a newbie and I have a source already. I think the first thread (or at least one of the first) I read was "Source for Cuban Cigars" I learned to keep my mouth shut then and I eventually gained a source. It's a very public source, but it's a source non-the-less. I really feel bad that other newbs have cost some of you guys your favored sources. I say ding everyone who asks publicly.


----------



## opus

Poker's post reminds me of another thought about vendors.
If you are smuggling contraband accross borders for profit, (and let's face it that is what is transpiring here), would you rather deal with 20 guys you have previously worked with in the past without problems, guys buying many boxes each....Or would you rather deal with 200 guys you don't know, but are buying a few boxes each? The sales may be higher with with the 200, but the risks are far greater. *This is the vendor's livlihood we are dealing with here*. Also, if their inventory gets wiped out by 1 box wonders, the regulars will move on because the aged stock is no longer there. They will lose valued customers for the sake of a quick buck. This has happened. Sorry if this was already covered previously. I have no more to add to this thread.


----------



## Stonefox

It is not that hard to find a "source". Anyone asking I would be hesitant to talk ti in the first place. Just do a internet search! You will find all the "sources" you need. Thats how I did and I've been very happy At some point you have to just take the plunge and takes your chances. Just start small and as your confidence grows you will become more at ease. I'm not willing to take the rap for someone else nor am I going to risk getting my "source " put on the customs radar.


----------



## stig

Anyone who is new here but not new to smokinf cigars should already know that it is not cool to ask someone for a source, especialy if you don't know them that well and they don't know you. There is a lot of good information here and it has taken me an entire lunch hour just to read through all of the posts here but I am left with one burning question that just needs to be answered.

D.Generate, what the hell is an otterpop?


----------



## Puffy69

poker said:


> whats a source?


Source is the Crack House. People dont understand that Others and myself would never give the address to the Crack House without even knowing who they are.. They could be the DEA for all I know. And even if I did know they were cool, It would still need to be a good relationship before I give them directions to the House. They might have deep pockets and buy them out,or bad habits that leave me empty handed with no House to got to. Ya gotta build a Rep before you Get.


----------



## smitdavi

This is prolly one of the best threads a noob can read along with Mo's post. For me I don't have a source and I'm not worried about sources. I'm hanging out and making friends and enjoying my time on the boards. My time will come. For now, I'll just soak up all the info I can about this amazing hobby. In my short time being here i've learned so much and met so many amazing people. Sorry about your bad luck Skip


----------



## poker

Rock Star said:


> Source is the Crack House. People dont understand that Others and myself would never give the address to the Crack House without even knowing who they are.. They could be the DEA for all I know. And even if I did know they were cool, It would still need to be a good relationship before I give them directions to the House. They might have deep pockets and buy them out,or bad habits that leave me empty handed with no House to got to. Ya gotta build a Rep before you Get.


Thats called "the connection"


----------



## LasciviousXXX

poker said:


> Thats called "the connection"


Poker knows all about the "connection" :r


----------



## poker

in the past my friend, in the past. :r


----------



## bpegler

This may sound a little odd, but I would be worried if there wasn't great reluctance to share sources to someone like me. I am new, and could be anyone at all. The stories shared about people getting burned (and getting their sources screwed) suck. I am deeply interested in people's experiences in a general way, without the specifics.

I do a lot of fishing, and I am always ready to show a friend a good spot. I would never take a stranger anywhere.


----------



## (909)

stig said:


> Anyone who is new here but not new to smokinf cigars should already know that it is not cool to ask someone for a source, especialy if you don't know them that well and they don't know you. There is a lot of good information here and it has taken me an entire lunch hour just to read through all of the posts here but I am left with one burning question that just needs to be answered.
> 
> D.Generate, what the hell is an otterpop?


http://www.otterpop.com/

You don't have any kids

Check it out!!


----------



## LasciviousXXX

poker said:


> in the past my friend, in the past. :r


Yeah right, whatever pusher-man!

We all know you started a new "business" last year and that it keeps you on the "move" a lot and that you're now making a considerable amount more than you used to. I'm on to your clever ruse Mr. Poker, you can't fool me.

Besides, where else would you get all that money to support your Craps habit if you weren't dealing????


----------



## thebiglebowski

my question; why is this thread a *sticky?!*


----------



## MiamiE

thebiglebowski said:


> my question; why is this thread a *sticky?!*


Because the new members need to learn. As much as i would advise them to read this thread I would also recommend reading the 'Sources for Cuban Cigars' thread. Lots of information there.


----------



## ToddziLLa

luvsmesumcigars said:


> Fair enough. I appreciate people taking time to explain. It does make sense. I will keep my mouth shut. I guess i was just sick of seeing newbies bashed. I'm sure some deserve it.


Just wanted to clarify a point here.

This Web site is absolutely the most non-newbie-bashing site out there. I can't tell you how many times someone has asked for sources our divulged sources in a public manner in the past. We simply say "Hey, that's against the rules. Delete your post and move on."

We are a very forgiving bunch. We don't drive newbies in the ground like 90% of the other forums do. _That's_ what separates ClubStogie from the rest, and _that's_ why we are so close to each other.

Having said that, welcome to CS.


----------



## Lopez

bpegler said:


> This may sound a little odd, but I would be worried if there wasn't great reluctance to share sources to someone like me. I am new, and could be anyone at all.
> 
> *I do a lot of fishing, and I am always ready to show a friend a good spot. I would never take a stranger anywhere.*


Exact analogy I was thinking of. I can think of one river in Oregon and a couple in New Zealand that I will never tell anyone about, at least not in enough detail that a listener could figure out where they are.


----------



## PaulMac

ToddziLLa said:


> Just wanted to clarify a point here.
> 
> This Web site is absolutely the most non-newbie-bashing site out there. I can't tell you how many times someone has asked for sources our divulged sources in a public manner in the past. *We simply say "Hey, that's against the rules. Delete your post and move on."*
> 
> We are a very forgiving bunch. We don't drive newbies in the ground like 90% of the other forums do. _That's_ what separates ClubStogie from the rest, and _that's_ why we are so close to each other.
> 
> Having said that, welcome to CS.


After we do what is in bold they usually respond with calling us a bunch of elitest a-holes and spend 10 minutes calling us names, and THAT is why some of us get rather pissed off about the whole thing


----------



## thebiglebowski

MiamiE said:


> Because the new members need to learn. As much as i would advise them to read this thread I would also recommend reading the 'Sources for Cuban Cigars' thread. Lots of information there.


we're making someone's *opinion/prerogative *into *policy*? that's what this _feels _like...


----------



## stig

(909) said:


> http://www.otterpop.com/
> 
> You don't have any kids
> 
> Check it out!!


Wow, 2 kids and I never heard of these. But then again, if I can't bang on it or smoke it then what's the point?


----------



## stig

thebiglebowski said:


> we're making someone's *opinion/prerogative *into *policy*? that's what this _feels _like...


It's not neccesarily opinion or prerogative, it's just plane old common sense and good manners is what this is all boiling down to.


----------



## RcktS4

thebiglebowski said:


> we're making someone's *opinion/prerogative *into *policy*? that's what this _feels _like...


_sigh_ 
The damn board's policy is that cuban cigars are illegal, sources are not named out loud, and is dictated by the owner of the board, who is anything but heavy-handed.

The sources issue is not policy, it's an ongoing problem that shows up every few months and frankly gets pretty annoying buy the 300th time someone asks the same asinine questions and points the same accusatory 'but I think you guys are being jerks' finger. It's a damn sticky because someone thought it was valuable enough to sticky it.

No offense (well not much) but what the hell is wrong with any of that? I have yet to see someone who has been continuously active and involved here for more than six months disagree with any of the points made above. I wonder why THAT is? Not to be elitist, but doesn't involvement for a reasonable period of time count for something, or are we so damn equal that experience has now become worthless?


----------



## SeanGAR

thebiglebowski said:


> we're making someone's *opinion/prerogative *into *policy*? that's what this _feels _like...


When you own and run a web site on cigars, you can make up whatever rules please you. Sound fair?


----------



## PuroBrat

RcktS4 said:


> ....doesn't involvement for a reasonable period of time count for something, or are we so damn equal that experience has now become worthless?


That is where the problem is. I think it is that in society today, some think everyone should be equal.

Call it the BOTL No Noob left behind policy :BS

There IS a reason why the profiles here show Join Date, # of Posts, Trader comments and User Comments. Not to mention RG, positive as well as Negative. It is all about building a reputation as a Stand Up BOTL, one who deserves to be trusted, because they earned it. If you have not paid the Piano Player, than stay in the seats and don't try to dance. Does this mean you can't drink the beer, or eat the Peanuts? Not at all, but you have to pay the Piano Player before you get to dance. IMHO


----------



## ToddziLLa

PuroBrat said:


> That is where the problem is. I think it is that in society today, some think everyone should be equal.


If someone I've never met came up and asked me how to do ILLEGAL THINGS, I WOULD NOT TELL THEM. The equality card can't be played here.

It's pretty simple actually.


----------



## PuroBrat

ToddziLLa said:


> If someone I've never met came up and asked me how to do ILLEGAL THINGS, I WOULD NOT TELL THEM. The equality card can't be played here.
> 
> It's pretty simple actually.


Totally agree, I must not be making my posts clear enough or something. Does everybody understand that I Agree with the Policy, and with the reasons they are in place?

I feel like some think I am arguing against the Board's policy, and for giving it all over to new people. And this is NOT the case, not at all.


----------



## IHT

RcktS4 said:


> _sigh_
> The damn board's policy is that cuban cigars are illegal, sources are not named out loud, and is dictated by the owner of the board, who is anything but heavy-handed.
> 
> The sources issue is not policy, it's an ongoing problem that shows up every few months and frankly gets pretty annoying buy the 300th time someone asks the same asinine questions and points the same accusatory 'but I think you guys are being jerks' finger. It's a damn sticky because someone thought it was valuable enough to sticky it.
> 
> No offense (well not much) but what the hell is wrong with any of that? I have yet to see someone who has been continuously active and involved here for more than six months disagree with any of the points made above. I wonder why THAT is? Not to be elitist, but doesn't involvement for a reasonable period of time count for something, or are we so damn equal that experience has now become worthless?


just wanted to point out that you used the wrong version of "by/buy". 

you think you're so smart, mr. bigshot lotsa posts, been here for so long! you think that gives you any special treatment on here, other than built up trusts among other members, maybe some life-long friendships? huh... do you??!!

well, that don't mean JACK SQUAT when you're living in a van down by the river.


----------



## RcktS4

IHT said:


> just wanted to point out that you used the wrong version of "by/buy".
> 
> you think you're so smart, mr. bigshot lotsa posts, been here for so long! you think that gives you any special treatment on here, other than built up trusts among other members, maybe some life-long friendships? huh... do you??!!
> 
> well, that don't mean JACK SQUAT when you're living in a van down by the river.


ow. that made my colon slam shut. now my hiney really hurts.

no, seriously. It feels like I got something maybe stuck up there. Ow. ow. ow. feel bad for me now?


----------



## justinphilly-cl

SeanGAR said:


> When you own and run a web site on cigars, you can make up whatever rules please you. Sound fair?


:tpd: ----> though i would never call seangar stupid...(An RG ding from him would hurt like hell!)


----------



## stogie_kanobie_one

Wow..... This thread is growing exponentially. as a new guy I would never even think of asking anyone to divulge their sources. I think it is interesting when a new guy does this. Simply because I'm a nervous nelly myself and so as a NEW GUY would trust very few sources given. I mean even though someone may be a tried and true BOTL as a new guy I barely new what BOTL meant. I think I read ISOM 30 or so times before the light bulb came on and I figured it out. Many others have said it best, the information is out their for anyone willing to do the research. 

Admittedly the fear factor is big when looking to acquire these sticks but with that said I think that factor only increases the more people that know what you're into and looking for. Talking about them is one thing but the closer you get to the act of acquiring them..... I say Newbie and tried and true BOTL alike should tread very carefully. I'm sure many BOTL's could have some great sources. But I'm confidant should I ever want to develop my own sources I could... so why not search for your own gem?


----------



## Jason Love III

dadof3illinois said:


> This is about gaining *trust *from fellow members and being someone who is *mature* in there dealings, not only with vendors but with members here.


:tpd: Nicely put, as well as the other great posts here...


----------



## icehog3

luvsmesumcigars said:


> but please we are all here for the same thing whether we are new to the internet forums or have been smoking for years. It is all about finding the best smoke possible.


Not for some of us it's not. I have sources to find the best smokes possible. I stay here for the friendships. I don't expect you to understand though, based on your philosophy.


----------



## ToddziLLa

PuroBrat said:


> Totally agree, I must not be making my posts clear enough or something. Does everybody understand that I Agree with the Policy, and with the reasons they are in place?
> 
> I feel like some think I am arguing against the Board's policy, and for giving it all over to new people. And this is NOT the case, not at all.


My previous post wasn't directed at you brother, rather than just a general statement.

Carry on!


----------



## stig

You don't ask a junkie who his supplier is.

You don't ask your teenage son if he has towels that can stand up on their own.

You don't talk to strangers.

You don't ask your best friend to see his wife naked. (well maybe some of you do.)

And you don't ask the large gorilla for his sources, it's kinda like reaching out and kicking him in the ding ding, it's just going to piss him off and why on earth would you want to intentionaly piss off a gorilla?


----------



## bpegler

_Ding ding_? That doesn't sound like a very big gorilla to me.


----------



## LasciviousXXX

stig said:


> You don't ask your best friend to see his wife naked. (well maybe some of you do.)


I do I have, and I did.... bow chiga bow wow!


----------



## MoTheMan

LasciviousXXX said:


> I do I have, and I did.... bow chiga bow wow!


Dustin,

You bad!


----------



## LasciviousXXX

Hell Mo, a good friend will offer to let you see his wife naked..... a great friend will just strip without being asked 


:r


----------



## RcktS4

LasciviousXXX said:


> Hell Mo, a good friend will offer to let you see his wife naked..... a great friend will just strip without being asked
> 
> :r


...and a friend like Dustin wasn't wearing any clothes to begin with


----------



## thebiglebowski

justinphilly said:


> :tpd: ----> though i would never call seangar stupid...(An RG ding from him would hurt like hell!)


no. no need for that - i don't play that way. funny, though, how a difference of opinion (NOT on the relevance of the post, but how it may be perceived) has brought on a few jabs at me (including pointing out my tenure of LESS than 6 months).

ah, well. cheers!

edit:

oh, wait - i just notice i've beeng dinged four times. and for what? expressing my opinion in a constructive way? thanks, fellas. that's lovely.

edit, part II:

actually, for clarity's sake, it was just one big gorilla really clobbering me for four points...


----------



## IHT

LasciviousXXX said:


> bow chiga bow wow!


now, i've seen the Family Guy episode where Peter gets his own theme music
but dustin has his own **** them music...


----------



## LasciviousXXX

Of Course Greg! I wouldn't be the XXX if I didn't have my own **** Theme Song.... geesh, you'd think you'd know that by now........


----------



## Eternal Rider

What's all this fighting about? I am new to this forum and I have enough common sense not to ask anyone for their sources. I feel if I stay here long enough and don't step on alot of gorillas toes. I will make friends with pepole here and they will share their soures with me if they want to. It is their source and it is their's to share if they feel like it. Older Gorillas have spent alot of time and money building sources. I feel who am I to ask for their sources when they don't know if they can trust me or not.


----------



## t'kay

Well boys..let's just make this simple. If you REALLY want sources that bad, make some home videos like Dustin, or offer to [_edited by:MoTheMan Reason: Ladies should never talk like that._] Hello! How do you think I got my sources?


----------



## mr.c

t'kay said:


> Well boys..let's just make this simple. If you REALLY want sources that bad, make some home videos like Dustin, or offer to [_edited by:MoTheMan Reason: Ladies should never talk like that._] Hello! How do you think I got my sources?


:al

luv the edit by mo, awesome! Now I know how paulmac got his sources


----------



## tecnorobo

t'kay said:


> Well boys..let's just make this simple. If you REALLY want sources that bad, make some home videos like Dustin, or offer to [_edited by:MoTheMan Reason: Ladies should never talk like that._] Hello! How do you think I got my sources?


uh oh... MO STEPS IN


----------



## (909)

t'kay said:


> Well boys..let's just make this simple. If you REALLY want sources that bad, make some home videos like Dustin, or offer to [_edited by:MoTheMan Reason: Ladies should never talk like that._] Hello! How do you think I got my sources?


Unless they are talking like that in a whisper in your ear:r


----------



## LasciviousXXX

Oh crap Mo!!! I wanted to hear what she had to say :r 

Believe me, that girl knows how to get "sources"


----------



## icehog3

t'kay said:


> Well boys..let's just make this simple. If you REALLY want sources that bad, make some home videos like Dustin, or offer to [_edited by:MoTheMan Reason: Ladies should never talk like that._] Hello! How do you think I got my sources?


I'm tingly all over!!!


----------



## DownUnder LLG

Certainly a lota great info here. Sorry you got burned Skip, it just amazes me that people will take advantage of others in such a way.
I joined this board for the common interest we share. And what may come as a surprise is that I too would have like some sources too. Why is that a surprise, well cubans are legal here so why would I want a source. Because they are just too damn expensive here. Eventually a very well known gorilla here offered to help me out, this was just recently. But instead of flat out asking him I PM'd him a pile of websites that I had been researching and asked him for his opinion on them if he had one. He offered his opinion and some other sources as well. He was even generous enough to say to me that I should mention his name with one paticular vendor as a sort of in roads.
Well I still haven't used any of these vendors, which is more of an available funds issue... or perhaps unavailable funds, and I have not and despite his generous offer will not use his name to get my way in. I am most greatful for the info he has given me and I will do all I can to protect it and him.

This is a good example of all good things come to those who wait. Just enjoy the scenery of the jungle and you will eventually see the wood from the trees.


----------



## t'kay

Too bad I have all your sources XXX or I'd offer to tell you what I said in exchange.


----------



## LasciviousXXX

t'kay said:


> Too bad I have all your sources XXX or I'd offer to tell you what I said in exchange.


You don't have to tell me Nat, hell you've done most of those services to me anyhow


----------



## Mister Moo

DownUnder LLG said:


> ...I joined this board for the common interest we share.... all good things come to those who wait. Just enjoy the scenery of the jungle and you will eventually see the wood from the trees.


D'uh... what's not to understand? After 30-years in my business I know where most of the good, the bad and the ugly is hidden. I only share the important stuff with people I trust - folks who don't kiss and tell and who won't embarass me in front of my lifelong friends/associates. Nothing different here. It's a virtual community but it's still very much the real world. Sorry you got put out Skip - I'm a cigar newguy but this stuff is obvious.


----------



## Da Klugs

Wow...

Sources? None of them are "ours". They existed before we knew about them. They or others will be around after we stop buying from them. Someone gave them to us. 

There was trust that:

1. We were not "Da man" (Not sure how MO got his first one but whatever)

2. Someone felt they knew enough about us to share something of value to them. A good source is valued. When you ask for one that is the real issue.. risk of loss.

3. You will be responsible with the information. Access to something good can easily be spoiled by people of poor character. I'm sure there are some folks that regret giving me certain vendors ... but that is more of a volume thing, I hope.  

4. They understood that the source was of value to us and wanted to share it based upon having established a relationship, friendship, kinship, whatever. However, giving an aged source to an 18 year old with a cigar budget of $ 300 a year seems a bit silly.

Not sure why, but I get numerous PM's asking for information. A very high percentage of the time they are titled.. YO or Hey or Dude. Not kidding that's the salutation. It gets better. Most do not identify themselves. No hi I'm Jim we haven't really met but I'm a good guy from Iowa with 3 kids etc. 100% of the time my response is a nice hey plug in and it will happen.

Once in a great while it's from a brother who it's a surprize they asked, and a pleasure to share. 

It's a fine line that demonstrated character is the best vehicle to use to cross.


----------



## Brandon

Just like anything in life worth having, you have to earn it. Nobody is obligated to give anyone sources. Asking someone else for sources, without any type of established relationship, shows a lack of class. It seems that many folks don't know the meaning or value of trust.


----------



## DonWeb

DownUnder LLG said:


> This is a good example of all good things come to those who wait. Just enjoy the scenery of the jungle and *you will eventually see the wood from the trees*.


what is with the not so hidden references to dustin?


----------



## DonWeb

Da Klugs said:


> Not sure why, but I get numerous PM's asking for information. A very high percentage of the time they are titled.. YO or Hey or Dude. Not kidding that's the salutation. It gets better. Most do not identify themselves. No hi I'm Jim we haven't really met but I'm a good guy from Iowa with 3 kids etc. 100% of the time my response is a nice hey plug in and it will happen.


yo, dude!

it's your avatar. it portrays you in such an avuncular manner that we newbs are drawn to you like a moth to flame.

edit: (cue the dating game theme music)...i'm from wi, married, with two (grown) kids. i enjoy medium-well steaks, long walks on moon-lit beaches and snuggling under a blanket watching classic movies.


----------



## etenpenny

i came to this information by sitting back watching, talking to others around until I picked up a few sources and then asking a few folks along the way to verify those
we have all made some mistakes along the way but I cant imagine sending out a message that just says "hey dude, whats you favorite source"

to quote office space "na man... shit no man..... I think you would get yer ass kicked for saying something like that"


----------



## icehog3

Da Klugs said:


> Not sure why, but I get numerous PM's asking for information. A very high percentage of the time they are titled.. YO or Hey or Dude. Not kidding that's the salutation. It gets better. Most do not identify themselves. No hi I'm Jim we haven't really met but I'm a good guy from Iowa with 3 kids etc. 100% of the time my response is a nice hey plug in and it will happen.


I didn't read this carefully enough the first time ....there's nothing I hate more than being called "Dude" by someone who doesn't know me. Back in my less tactful days, I grabbed more than one asswipe by the throat. That being said, we should make this a sticky, "Don't call the FOG (or non-Newb, in my case) 'Dude'"!!!!


----------



## Neuromancer

icehog3 said:


> I didn't read this carefully enough the first time ....there's nothing I hate more than being called "Dude" by someone who doesn't know me. Back in my less tactful days, I grabbed more than one asswipe by the throat. That being said, we should make this a sticky, "Don't call the FOG (or non-Newb, in my case) 'Dude'"!!!!


Uh, oh...now ya did it...you know everyone's gonna call you "Dude" in every PM they send you...


----------



## icehog3

Neuromancer said:


> Uh, oh...now ya did it...you know everyone's gonna call you "Dude" in every PM they send you...


If they are people I've talked to here before, it wouldn't bother me...

But I thought D.Gen was "El Dudarino"!!!


----------



## etenpenny

icehog3 said:


> If they are people I've talked to here before, it wouldn't bother me...
> 
> But I thought D.Gen was "El Dudarino"!!!


from now on tom you are the "hockey dude" to me


----------



## icehog3

etenpenny said:


> from now on tom you are the "hockey dude" to me


Sawright Elliott, we know each other...only people I don't know pi$$ me off!!


----------



## Mister Moo

icehog3 said:


> Sawright Elliott, we know each other...only people I don't know pi$$ me off!!


I know you. You a Gordie Howe wannabe dude.


----------



## cvm4

Oh My! 13 pages...I sure did miss a lot


----------



## icehog3

Mister MaDuroo said:


> I know you. You a Gordie Howe wannabe dude.


I could do a lot worse!!


----------



## IHT

cvm4 said:


> Oh My! 13 pages...I sure did miss a lot


this is page 5 for me (i have my setup for 40 posts per page).


----------



## D. Generate

icehog3 said:


> But I thought D.Gen was "El Dudarino"!!!


"I'm the Dude. So, that's what you call me. You know, that, or his Dudeness, or Duder, or El Dudarino, if you're not into the whole brevity thing."



icehog3 said:


> ....there's nothing I hate more than being called "Dude"


So, uh, when do the credits come back anyway? No reason. Just wondering.


----------



## kvm

icehog3 said:


> I didn't read this carefully enough the first time ....there's nothing I hate more than being called "Dude" by someone who doesn't know me. Back in my less tactful days, I grabbed more than one asswipe by the throat. That being said, we should make this a sticky, "Don't call the FOG (or non-Newb, in my case) 'Dude'"!!!!


:r Now you know whats going to happen when credits come back


----------



## kvm

IHT said:


> this is page 5 for me (i have my setup for 40 posts per page).


For a thread called Don't ask don't tell there is a lot of asking and telling going on.


----------



## t'kay

Don't ask, don't tell...I like the "ask, show, don't tell policy" myself, as do my many love slaves...er wait, I guess that makes me THEIR love slave. DAMNIT! I always thought I was in charge.:c


----------



## icehog3

t'kay said:


> Don't ask, don't tell...I like the "ask, show, don't tell policy" myself, as do my many love slaves...er wait, I guess that makes me THEIR love slave. DAMNIT! I always thought I was in charge.:c


But you ARE in charge Natty.....at least until Dale gets some credits.


----------



## t'kay

icehog3 said:


> But I AM in charge until Dale gets some new pillows.


Overshare ice..please no more.


----------



## MoTheMan

BUMP!

I know of one dealer that's no longer taking new customers nor is he shipping to the US, he used to in the past. They got waaay too much scrutiny of their operation from US law enforcement and now stick to their non-US clientele only.


----------



## drevim

MoTheMan said:


> BUMP!
> 
> I know of one dealer that's no longer taking new customers nor is he shipping to the US, he used to in the past. They got waaay too much scrutiny of their operation from US law enforcement and now stick to their non-US clientele only.


I have to assume that a dealer that can pick and choose his customers, is a level (or 10) above any that I have, so I wonder this:

Did said vendor get narced on by a disgruntled customer?
Did said vendor get noticed because he shipped so much into the US that it stood out?
Did said vendor advertise to the point that he got noticed on a forum by "The Man"? I have to assume that this wouldn't be the case or the number of vendors who do still advertise on boards would be having their stuff looked at more frequently.

I have to assume that even some of the big advertisers will eventually get to the point where they will be customer selective, just for the fact that, a number of them will sell out of the more popular brands in a matter of hours of receiving them. Which drives away some of their more prolific buyers.


----------



## JezterVA

justinphilly said:


> listen man, no-one is trying to dis-encourage (is that a word) you or anyone from "learning" what you can from the site.. Put it like this....Weed is illegal right? Well, you wouldnt walk into a room with a ton of people you dont know and yell, "Does anyone have nay weed?" No, you wouldn't.. Nor would you, if you knew where to get the weed, walk into a room with people you dont know and yell, "Hey, i know where you can get some weed!" No, but in due time, once we all get to know each other, we will all get high together.
> 
> *Superb analogy. Straight and to the point.*
> 
> *<SNIP>*
> 
> Just let time take its course.. I promise you that you will be giving these speeches to new members protecting "your" sources.. And you will realize the importance of keeping these sources safe.. Especially when they run out of the cigars you are so crazily looking for.. Por Larranga Petit Coronas!!!
> 
> *PM inbound... *
> 
> peace


Excellent thread and excellent posts by the senior gorillas. This is a MUST read for all newbs.


----------



## HeavySmoke

kvm said:


> I think that is part of the problem and why new members start asking for sources. Sure they can find them but they don't know if they can trust them and they don't want to get burned. As far as vendors with banner ads or posting in the retailers section, I myself would rather have a vendor that keeps a low profile. What probably stopped me from making the mistake of asking was reading Mo's post. That shed a whole new light on things and I have never asked anyone for a source. It should be mandatory reading for newbies. Opusxox can you give us a "generic" if nothing else explaination of how you got burned?


I second your sentiments. I prefer not to learn via trial and error. Trial and error seems like the wrong way to go about, and an expensive lesson to learn.


----------



## icehog3

HeavySmoke said:


> I second your sentiments. I prefer not to learn via trial and error. Trial and error seems like the wrong way to go about, and an expensive lesson to learn.


Welcome to Club Stogie.


----------



## MoTheMan

drevim said:


> I have to assume that a dealer that can pick and choose his customers, is a level (or 10) above any that I have, so I wonder this:
> 
> *Did said vendor get narced on by a disgruntled customer?*
> *Did said vendor get noticed because he shipped so much into the US that it stood out?*
> Did said vendor advertise to the point that he got noticed on a forum by "The Man"? I have to assume that this wouldn't be the case or the number of vendors who do still advertise on boards would be having their stuff looked at more frequently.
> 
> I have to assume that even some of the big advertisers will eventually get to the point where they will be customer selective, just for the fact that, a number of them will sell out of the more popular brands in a matter of hours of receiving them. Which drives away some of their more prolific buyers.


Said vendor was well known & well established.
In fact, they didn't take new customers unless by referral. Now they're not taking any new customers at all.
Typically what happens is that over enthusiasm on the part of a Havanophile newbie* eventually finds a leak and gets to The Man -- no, not me, the GOVERNMENT MAN. An example is too many phone calls to a foreign country or internet traffic (at odd hours, let's say) to a certain site that get monitored, checks reveal that business is a cigar dealer, word goes out to customs to check for all packages coming from this locale . . . and whamoo, seizures).
All I can say is this, if you want to indulge in Havanas, then discretion, discretion, discretion!!!

*Now I was a newbie once too, made mistakes, suffered seizures. I just don't like to stick my neck out like that anymore.


----------



## illuminatus

Wow... I've been following this thread, and I really like it. I don't have much to say, besides echoing the sentiments of others. I was a newb (still am). I don't remember ever asking for sources(not saying I didn't, I just don't remember), after I did my time, and established myself, I was offered a source, along with a name for a referral. Since then, I've done my research, established some legit vendors (through asking FOGs about previous experiences with vendors whose names I supplied). I personally have never placed an order, I prefer to deal in splits with BOTLs here, mainly because I can't afford a box right now. Well, I could, but I wouldn't eat for two weeks. It was actually a tough decision, as you can imagine. :r

So the gist of my ramblings is the same as everyone else's... Wait, wait, patience, good things happen. Also, check the WTS forum.


----------



## drrgill

*"Experience is a tough teacher, She gives the Test first then the Lesson"*


----------



## MoTheMan

drrgill said:


> *"Experience is a tough teacher, She gives the Test first then the Lesson"*


True, so true!

Great quote.


----------



## opus

drrgill said:


> *"Experience is a tough teacher, She gives the Test first then the Lesson"*


Lessons learned through experience are the lessons you will *never *forget.


----------



## HeavySmoke

icehog3 said:


> Welcome to Club Stogie.


Thank you. I dig this site. Im not going anywhere anytime soon and I already have learned alot from old posts. You guys (and ladies) know your stuff! Say hello sometime.


----------



## kanadakid

Gents

Haven't posted in a while but have some thoughts that might be helpful to all.

We should never divulge our sources. It creates a feeding frenzy that causes issues for the exporter.

What we can provide are those sites selling fakes and taking us for a ride. There are tons of those out there and we should list those sites that we have been burned by.

And there is a lot of them !


Kid


----------



## Ermo

I agree. I have one reliable source that I would never share. If something were to happen to that connection I wouldn't know where to start...:hn


----------



## Leeboob

wow...thats a lot of readin. i agree with everyone who has voiced their opinion of don't ask don't tell. i've only been a member here for a couple of months and don't have many posts, i guess thats 'cause i don't have a whole hell of a lot to say on the subject, but i'm learning. i have one trade in the nst and what did i find in the fog's end of the deal? why, a few isoms. imagine that. not to mention a little leg work on my part and i may have a couple of "sources". just waiting to work a little over time so i can do some sampleing (sp?).

thanks to all the fogs for making this site what it is today and to all the newbs such as myself who will pick up the torch. 

and i apologize if i've ever called anybody dude in a pm.

carry on
Lee


----------



## Badkarma

I have not been here that long, but I for one can say that I would never EVER ask anyone for a source. If I cant figure it out on my own, I dont have the motivation. But then I could never afford a box anyway. I'm lucky that I can get them in 5'vers when I want them.

If someone offered, that I trusted, a 5'ver. I would not ask any questions.
Friendship is a whole lot more important than a box of cigars.


----------



## Bigwaved

mike32312 said:


> You know you try to help someone out and they F^$K things up. Cs is suck a great site with such willing helpful BOTL, they we try to help out the newbies and it ends up biting us in the ass. I agree, guidelines have been put in place for a reason. Newbies need to establish themselves first. Sorry for whatever happened Opus but your absolutely right. Point made.


This clearly explains why you put the comment #14 on your ramblings thread. Thanks for keeping us newbs in line. I want this board to keep the way it is. If we earn respect, then great. If we do not, then as they say, "You made your bed, now sleep in it".


----------



## wij

*Advice from one Noob to another*

Being a noob and wanting to try some of the forbidden fruit I went on search and resulted in a source that I feel pretty good about. It's not all that difficult so don't get upset if you don't have a source, just put some leg work in.

The same day that I posted about receiving my first shipment someone PM'd me inquiring about my source. My source was not intrusted (which I would never violate) to me by a BOTL and this person had reasonable RG and post count so I thought what the heck I'm a noob I owe my fellow BOTL's some payback. I ante'd up my source. To this day i've never received so much as a thank you PM. I feel a little bit "taken advantage of".


----------



## Bigwaved

*Re: Advice from one Noob to another*



wij said:


> Being a noob and wanting to try some of the forbidden fruit I went on search and resulted in a source that I feel pretty good about. It's not all that difficult so don't get upset if you don't have a source, just put some leg work in.
> 
> The same day that I posted about receiving my first shipment someone PM'd me inquiring about my source. My source was not intrusted (which I would never violate) to me by a BOTL and this person had reasonable RG and post count so I thought what the heck I'm a noob I owe my fellow BOTL's some payback. I ante'd up my source. To this day i've never received so much as a thank you PM. I feel a little bit "taken advantage of".


Kinda' like when you let someone in your lane during bad traffic and don't even get so much as a nod...


----------



## kanadakid

Gents,

I'm all for not sharing your hard eraned sources for cuban cigars. I have 2 sources that I believe are rock solid and priced fairly. not the cheapest but resonable. 

One from a personal contact in Hong Kong and the other from where the supplier in hong kong bought his cigars and a lot of personal reseaserch time.

What I think would be helpful to the guys looking for sources is a list of those know WIPEs who will lie and steal their money only to ship them fakes. This is the best way I know to repay those creeps who do this. 

So if you have been burned let everyone know so they can avoid the bad guys.


Kid 

Favorites

El rey choix superemes
1964 Padron's
1992 Rockey patels
Gurkha Titans


----------



## Corona Gigante-cl

kanadakid said:


> What I think would be helpful to the guys looking for sources is a list of those know WIPEs who will lie and steal their money only to ship them fakes. This is the best way I know to repay those creeps who do this.
> 
> So if you have been burned let everyone know so they can avoid the bad guys.


Well, that sounds like a great idea, only we don't publically discuss sources here.

Please read 3 Simple rules of Club Stogie, giving particular attention to rule #1.


----------



## kanadakid

Corona Gigante said:


> Well, that sounds like a great idea, only we don't publically discuss sources here.
> 
> Please read 3 Simple rules of Club Stogie, giving particular attention to rule #1.


Thanks for the feedback.

Exception- if you don't buy from them and /or they don't have cuban cigars ......they are not a source.

What I'm saying is to discuss those who are not sources.

Kid


----------



## poker

whats a source?


----------



## ToddziLLa

poker said:


> whats a source?


Hell if I know. :r


----------



## snkbyt

If you want to smoke cubans? It takes time to find a source of your own, and yes you will not be the only one using that souce. The name of the game is to be observant and to ask discreet questions after introducing yourself as a fellow cigar lover/smoker.

"Life is to short to smoke a cheap cigar"

DOC Motto
"No Glocks - Just Locks"


----------



## kanadakid

SNK,

I agree with you, finding a source is not difficult if you do your homeowork. IMO the challenge is to find sources that are either from countries with low tobacco tax and thus decent prices and those who aren't getting 40% of their stuff flagged.

For example you can find reliable sources in Canada, but the cost due to the very high taxes makes them prohibitive.

So the challenges are out there for those looking for a balance between, relaibility, cost and trustworhtness. This can take some time to drill down to all three (RCT)

Kid


----------



## M Thompson

_Cubans? What, do they make good cigars or something?_ 

I do have one question though, if I am ready to do some legwork and research, where _exactly_ would I start and does anyone have any phone numbers?!? Of course I'm kidding! I hope you guys have a sense of humor... 

/* avoiding direct eye contact with charging gorrillas... */

Ok, all kidding aside: Honestly, I'm very happy smoking my occasional (all "NC") Cohiba singles and the Montecristo Especial #3s I bought a box of to get a free premium cigar sampler (plus, the MCs came in a awesome white box that now acts as a nice desktop humidor!) Of course, my new hobby has also lightened my wallet a few hundred dollars in the past few weeks on a variety of other smokes, which I've enjoyed but could probably not identify in a lineup if my life depended on it. At this point, I think a genuine Cuban might be wasted on my inexperienced cigar tasting skills. I know "RANCID" and "NOT RANCID", purley a binary rating system right now. 

(EDIT: I *did* actually smoke a MC #3 single before opting to buy an entire box! I'd hate to get stuck with over $100 worth of cigars without knowing if they were any good!)

Phew! What a long thread!!! I'm glad I read it though, lots of great information. When its time, I hopefully will not make the same embarrassing mistakes as the newbies before me...

Cheers!!

--Mike


----------



## opus

kanadakid said:


> SNK,
> 
> I agree with you, finding a source is not difficult if you do your homeowork. IMO the challenge is to find sources that are either from countries with low tobacco tax and thus decent prices and those who aren't getting 40% of their stuff flagged.
> 
> For example you can find reliable sources in Canada, but the cost due to the very high taxes makes them prohibitive.
> 
> So the challenges are out there for those looking for a balance between, _relaibility, cost and trustworhtness_. *This can take some time to drill down to all three *(RCT)
> 
> Kid


*So take the time*. Cost you can tell from a website or email. Reliability you can only learn from experience. Trustworthiness, would you believe me if I told you someone was trustworthy? I may not be trustworthy myself.

I would be happy to tell you what I think of a vendor that you ask me about via PM.


----------



## RGD

M Thompson said:


> _. . . At this point, I think a genuine Cuban might be wasted on my inexperienced cigar tasting skills. I know "RANCID" and "NOT RANCID", purley a binary rating system right now.. . . _


_

Well Mike - you should be able to move up to a more involved rating system pretty soon - so I'll give you mine.

Feel free to use and test it out:

Sucks
Doesn't Suck
Doesn't Suck, Buy Again

Have fun!

Ron_


----------



## wij

opusxox said:


> Trustworthiness, would you believe me if I told you someone was trustworthy? I may not be trustworthy myself.


Hey opus I'll trust you if you want to confide in me!!!!!! (joking of course)


----------



## Bobb

RGD said:


> Sucks
> Doesn't Suck
> Doesn't Suck, Buy Again


:r I use the same system. It works great!


----------



## Pablo

I thought Cuban cigars were illegal...aren't they supposed to be filled with weed or something?

I knew this girl who had some source on her...we pretty much stayed away. I think I'll do the same concerning this thread.


----------



## kvm

pds said:


> I thought Cuban cigars were illegal...aren't they supposed to be filled with weed or something?
> 
> I knew this girl who had some source on her...we pretty much stayed away. I think I'll do the same concerning this thread.


Would that be Hot Skanks? :r


----------



## DonJefe

kvm said:


> Would that be Hot Skanks? :r


You talkin' bad about my woman?!


----------



## M Thompson

RGD said:


> Sucks
> Doesn't Suck
> Doesn't Suck, Buy Again


Nice!

I think I can still enjoy a good cigar without having to say witty things like _"minty, with a hint of elephant watering hole"_. Oh well, maybe one day my tasting skills will catch up to my ego! LOL! Or maybe, my wallet will catch up to my cigar hobby...


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## kanadakid

opusxox said:


> *So take the time*. Cost you can tell from a website or email. Reliability you can only learn from experience. Trustworthiness, would you believe me if I told you someone was trustworthy? I may not be trustworthy myself.
> 
> I would be happy to tell you what I think of a vendor that you ask me about via PM.


You misunderstood my post as I have taken the time............I have had sources for years plus my son is in the cigar business. I was discussing the challenges that those who don't have sources face.

Kid


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## Lopez

RGD said:


> Well Mike - you should be able to move up to a more involved rating system pretty soon - so I'll give you mine.
> 
> Feel free to use and test it out:
> 
> Sucks
> Doesn't Suck
> Doesn't Suck, Buy Again


Same system I use. It has the advantage of being easy to remember.


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## mikestod

Ok, so I'm not looking for sources first off...I have a line on one already.

What I am hoping for is some tips on buying so you don't get burned. Either by having your packages seized or by being overcharged due to markup or supplier taxes. How can I tell if the line I have on a supplier will pay off. The person who gave me the info isn't overly knowledgeable about cigars in general. I wonder if he orders them as a status symbol more so then simple enjoyment... And to him, money is no object. For me, I'm looking to pay a fair price and not be grossly overcharged.

I've had a couple habanos that i've gotten in the newbie trade and think its time to dive off the deep end. I just don't want to get screwed doing it. I'm especially interested on the whole date code thing and how to tell which batches are the better ones to buy.A ny tips either by post or PM would be great.

Thanks in advance,
Mike


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## j6ppc

mikestod said:


> Ok, so I'm not looking for sources first off...I have a line on one already.
> 
> What I am hoping for is some tips on buying so you don't get burned. Either by having your packages seized or by being overcharged due to markup or supplier taxes. How can I tell if the line I have on a supplier will pay off. The person who gave me the info isn't overly knowledgeable about cigars in general. <snip>
> 
> Thanks in advance,
> Mike


Frankly between this entire thread and the "sources" thread also stickied in this forum - http://www.clubstogie.com/vb/showthread.php?t=8698 you should be able find answers all of your questions.

The really short version - know your prices. If a deal looks too good to be true well then most likely the source is not selling the real deal.

The flip side of that is when someone is charging 20-30% more than what seems to be the going rate and possibly adding exhorbitant shipping charges then you might also want to look around a bit futrther.

Reputable vendors will usually guarantee delivery, be responsive to email etc..

Once your reseach has narrowed things down a *small* order or two of something that does not break the bank is an excellent way to test the waters.

Lastly - know your box codes / SN prefixes and generally read up on how to tell what is fake and what is real.


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## uwhoo

Edited By XXX

Pm Sent


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## uwhoo

Well I am sitting up here in Canada wondering what is the big deal?


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## j6ppc

What part of don't ask don't tell don't you understand?
Suck it up and drive on.


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## jgros001

j6ppc said:


> Frankly between this entire thread and the "sources" thread also stickied in this forum - http://www.clubstogie.com/vb/showthread.php?t=8698 you should be able find answers all of your questions.
> 
> The really short version - know your prices. If a deal looks too good to be true well then most likely the source is not selling the real deal.
> 
> The flip side of that is when someone is charging 20-30% more than what seems to be the going rate and possibly adding exhorbitant shipping charges then you might also want to look around a bit futrther.
> 
> *Reputable vendors will usually guarantee delivery, be responsive to email etc..*
> 
> Once your reseach has narrowed things down a *small* order or two of something that does not break the bank is an excellent way to test the waters.
> 
> Lastly - know your box codes / SN prefixes and generally read up on how to tell what is fake and what is real.


Be careful here...Peddlers of fake cigars also "guarantee delivery" but they do not "guarantee authenticity".


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## Corona Gigante-cl

j6ppc said:


> What part of don't ask don't tell don't you understand?
> Suck it up and drive on.


The "don't ask" part, apparently.

The needle of my troll-o-meter twitches.


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## j6ppc

jgros001 said:


> Be careful here...Peddlers of fake cigars also "guarantee delivery" but they do not "guarantee authenticity".


Good point.


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## Gorilla In The Mist

Any Fellow BOTL's care to shoot me a PM about any experience they've had with a certain retailer I've used? 

Please Im not looking for handouts. I will find my own sources, but just want to know your opinions if any, of a certain place.

ONLY long time members please. 

If i'm out of line I apoligize:sl


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## Bigwaved

poker said:


> *whats a source*?





pds said:


> * I knew this girl who had some source on her*...we pretty much stayed away..


Now that is the best answer yet.


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## yourchoice

Wow, that was a lot of reading! But a ton of good info. It amazes me people will b**ch about not getting something handed to them, but if you actually *read*, and use some common sense you're half way there (at least I hope:r )
I'm a patient sort, read read read, learn learn learn. Then I'll act. Patience is a virtue!


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## lenguamor

I don't know what the big deal is; over the years I've found plenty of sources without having to ask anyone at all. You'd be surprised how lucky you get when you're resourceful.


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## DriftyGypsy

lenguamor said:


> I don't know what the big deal is; over the years I've found plenty of sources without having to ask anyone at all. You'd be surprised how *lucky* you get when you're resourceful.


I think you miss the point. *If you live in the United States or are an American Citizen living abroad and you are purchasing Cigars that are made in Cuba then you are breaking the law.* Would you ask in a crowded bus how many people are doing something illegal. A better example would be going to a party where someone is passing around one of those illegal cigarettes, you know the hand rolled kinds, sweet pungent smell that can get you locked up. You ask "Hey, man this is goooodd chit, can I have the name of your dealer?"

However, you are correct you can get lucky if you are resourceful, I agree. Many of the people who have sources are resourceful and developed these sources the same way you have. Also, many of these sources do not want to be advertised. So, the don't ask, don't tell policy exists. Now, please also remember that this policy exists in the public section of the forums, not says you cannot PM someone and ask for a source. Keep in mind that you may not get the reply you want... :gn


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## Gargamel

Hey anyone know where I can score?


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## j6ppc

Gargamel said:


> Hey anyone know where I can score?


Yeah Pedro in Tijuana the dude with the zebra striped donkey has the goods.


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## PaulMac

Gargamel said:


> Hey anyone know where I can score?


good lord, you still alive? lol


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## Bigwaved

j6ppc said:


> Yeah Pedro in Tijuana the dude with the zebra striped donkey has the goods.


You know the one, he is next to vendor with the bacon wrapped tubes 'o goo...


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## Gargamel

PaulMac said:


> good lord, you still alive? lol


Alive and well Pauly Mac. Haven't been here in a while...may have to liven up the boards a bit.


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## The Professor

Bigwaved said:


> You know the one, he is next to vendor with the bacon wrapped tubes 'o goo...


I feel like a need a shower now.... [shudder]


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## gorob23

poker said:


> whats a source?


:al *THE* guy that can get *YOU* a parking spot the 15th ...:z


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## Gargamel

gorob23 said:


> :al *THE* guy that can get *YOU* a parking spot the 15th ...:z


Hey seriously guy...I'm fuggin jonesed out over here. Am I in the wrong forum?


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## lenguamor

DriftyGypsy said:


> I think you miss the point. *If you live in the United States or are an American Citizen living abroad and you are purchasing Cigars that are made in Cuba then you are breaking the law.* Would you ask in a crowded bus how many people are doing something illegal. A better example would be going to a party where someone is passing around one of those illegal cigarettes, you know the hand rolled kinds, sweet pungent smell that can get you locked up. You ask "Hey, man this is goooodd chit, can I have the name of your dealer?"
> 
> However, you are correct you can get lucky if you are resourceful, I agree. Many of the people who have sources are resourceful and developed these sources the same way you have. Also, many of these sources do not want to be advertised. So, the don't ask, don't tell policy exists. Now, please also remember that this policy exists in the public section of the forums, not says you cannot PM someone and ask for a source. Keep in mind that you may not get the reply you want... :gn


Brother, did you quote me by mistake? 

My point was that I won't be asking anyone for sources, now or ever, since I've got plenty of my own...and that there's no reason for anyone else not to be that resourceful.


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## Gargamel

j6ppc said:


> Yeah Pedro in Tijuana the dude with the zebra striped donkey has the goods.


Hey thanks for reducing my ring gauge for something that's "No laughing matter" then adding a joke to the same thread in the next post. I already had to live through the original "Ring Gauge Disaster" of February of 05. That's right we all got banged down to zero. I take some time off and come back only to have you deplete me on my 1st day back. At least I know I'm safe with you monitoring the boards. Classy guy....classy. Do yourself a favor and don't take yourself so seriously.

Pot calls the kettle Black.


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## DriftyGypsy

lenguamor said:


> I don't know what the big deal is; over the years I've found plenty of sources without having to ask anyone at all. You'd be surprised how lucky you get when you're resourceful.





lenguamor said:


> DriftyGypsy said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think you miss the point. *If you live in the United States or are an American Citizen living abroad and you are purchasing Cigars that are made in Cuba then you are breaking the law.* Would you ask in a crowded bus how many people are doing something illegal. A better example would be going to a party where someone is passing around one of those illegal cigarettes, you know the hand rolled kinds, sweet pungent smell that can get you locked up. You ask "Hey, man this is goooodd chit, can I have the name of your dealer?"
> 
> However, you are correct you can get lucky if you are resourceful, I agree. Many of the people who have sources are resourceful and developed these sources the same way you have. Also, many of these sources do not want to be advertised. So, the don't ask, don't tell policy exists. Now, please also remember that this policy exists in the public section of the forums, not says you cannot PM someone and ask for a source. Keep in mind that you may not get the reply you want... :gn
> 
> 
> 
> Brother, did you quote me by mistake?
> 
> My point was that I won't be asking anyone for sources, now or ever, since I've got plenty of my own...and that there's no reason for anyone else not to be that resourceful.
Click to expand...

I didn't quote you by mistake, and I realized you said you had your own sources, but what I was referring to, and perhaps I should have edited your post when I quoted was to just this part.


lenguamor said:


> I don't know what the big deal is;


 That was the part of your post I was referring to. You also have to remember that some people are too lazy to develop their own resources. It's a lot easier to ask then it is to research. But, the reason I didn't use just that part would have taken you totally out of context.


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## j6ppc

Gargamel said:


> Hey thanks for reducing my ring gauge for something that's "No laughing matter" then adding a joke to the same thread in the next post. I already had to live through the original "Ring Gauge Disaster" of February of 05. That's right we all got banged down to zero. I take some time off and come back only to have you deplete me on my 1st day back. At least I know I'm safe with you monitoring the boards. Classy guy....classy. Do yourself a favor and don't take yourself so seriously.
> 
> Pot calls the kettle Black.


Please accept my apology for that.


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## IHT

Gargamel said:


> Hey thanks for reducing my ring gauge for something that's "No laughing matter" then adding a joke to the same thread in the next post. I already had to live through the original "Ring Gauge Disaster" of February of 05. That's right we all got banged down to zero. I take some time off and come back only to have you deplete me on my 1st day back. At least I know I'm safe with you monitoring the boards. Classy guy....classy. Do yourself a favor and don't take yourself so seriously.
> 
> Pot calls the kettle Black.


what's up, gargamel? long time no post.

SOOOOO LONG that a lot of newbies here wouldn't know who you are/were - which is just like the long-time board members not knowing who the newbies are (i guess).
hopefully my bump made up for the accidental ding someone gave you.


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## Gargamel

IHT said:


> what's up, gargamel? long time no post.
> 
> SOOOOO LONG that a lot of newbies here wouldn't know who you are/were - which is just like the long-time board members not knowing who the newbies are (i guess).
> hopefully my bump made up for the accidental ding someone gave you.


Hey Greg I guess I'll shuffle on over to the Newbs forum and introduce myself again. Good to see you're still around.


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## lenguamor

DriftyGypsy said:


> I didn't quote you by mistake, and I realized you said you had your own sources, but what I was referring to, and perhaps I should have edited your post when I quoted was to just this part. That was the part of your post I was referring to. You also have to remember that some people are too lazy to develop their own resources. It's a lot easier to ask then it is to research. But, the reason I didn't use just that part would have taken you totally out of context.


NP dude...I just didn't want anyone to infer that I thought the core issue itself was not serious. Just that people shouldn't be so lazy when it comes to procuring something that they want.


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## The_Bombero

I understand asking for sources is probably not the best thing to do, especially if you are new to the board like me, but what about source verification? Obviously it's bad etiquette to mention and/or ask for sources on a public forum but what about PM? For example, say I have a source but I found another vendor that has better prices or carries a specific smoke that my first source doesn't. Is it innappropriate to ask someone if they've had experience with a certain source or have heard anything about them? Forgive me if this has been addressed already. Thanks.


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## montecristo#2

The_Bombero said:


> I understand asking for sources is probably not the best thing to do, especially if you are new to the board like me, but what about source verification? Obviously it's bad etiquette to mention and/or ask for sources on a public forum but what about PM? For example, say I have a source but I found another vendor that has better prices or carries a specific smoke that my first source doesn't. Is it innappropriate to ask someone if they've had experience with a certain source or have heard anything about them? Forgive me if this has been addressed already. Thanks.


You might consider introducing yourself in the new gorilla forum. Hang around, get to know some people and you will eventually get the answers to your questions. If you sent someone a PM now, you might not get a response. In three to four months, if you are still interested, you might not even have to ask the question.

Trust me, hang around, this is the best place on the net to talk about cigars and anything else you desire (accept how to obtain illegal cigars in the US).

Now, if you live outside the US, I have been told there are other forums on the net that openly discuss these topics, I suggest finding one of those (and sorry, I don't know which ones).


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## SDmate

The_Bombero said:


> I understand asking for sources is probably not the best thing to do, especially if you are new to the board like me, but what about source verification? Obviously it's bad etiquette to mention and/or ask for sources on a public forum but what about PM? For example, say I have a source but I found another vendor that has better prices or carries a specific smoke that my first source doesn't. Is it innappropriate to ask someone if they've had experience with a certain source or have heard anything about them? Forgive me if this has been addressed already. Thanks.


G'day mate welcome to Club Stogie
your best idea would to join in the NST make some posts & let people get to know you
then start reading through the forums you'll be surprised what you'll find readin the stickies
also it might be a good idea to also post in the New Gorilla forum
& tell us a little about yerself


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## fireman43

The_Bombero said:


> I understand asking for sources is probably not the best thing to do, especially if you are new to the board like me, but what about source verification? Obviously it's bad etiquette to mention and/or ask for sources on a public forum but what about PM? For example, say I have a source but I found another vendor that has better prices or carries a specific smoke that my first source doesn't. Is it innappropriate to ask someone if they've had experience with a certain source or have heard anything about them? Forgive me if this has been addressed already. Thanks.


Being a fairly new member here myself, I can only give you advice I try to follow....Good things come to those who wait. I'm not saying it's wrong to ask, and I'm not saying it's right. I am just saying I don't for my own reasons. I have made some friends here, and that is more important to me than any source out there. For myself, I would never want to make them feel uncomfortable by asking them. The longer you are here, and the more you actively particiapte...Tried and True...Doors open up to wonderful things. Many of the Alpha Gorillas shy away from gung ho chimps who PM them about sources. Use your best judgement is all I can say. This is just what I do and the way I feel about it.


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## stevieray

fireman43 said:


> I have made some friends here, and that is more important to me than any source out there. For myself, I would never want to make them feel uncomfortable by asking them. The longer you are here, and the more you actively particiapte...Tried and True...Doors open up to wonderful things.


well said


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## cigar no baka

fireman43 said:


> Many of the Alpha Gorillas shy away from gung ho chimps who PM them about sources. t.


Maybe because it could be Big Brother gathering names for The List....


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## fireman43

cigar no baka said:


> Maybe because it could be Big Brother gathering names for The List....


Exactly...It's been said time and time again, and I agree 100%...Sources are closely guarded for good reasons. No one is trying to keep anyone from finding sticks, that's not the reason behind it. It's protecting oneself and ones investment of time and money safe. Nobody wants to get an unfriendly knock on their door or letter in their mailbox.


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## mrbl8k

fireman43 said:


> Being a fairly new member here myself, I can only give you advice I try to follow....Good things come to those who wait. I'm not saying it's wrong to ask, and I'm not saying it's right. I am just saying I don't for my own reasons. I have made some friends here, and that is more important to me than any source out there. *For myself, I would never want to make them feel uncomfortable by asking them*. The longer you are here, and the more you actively particiapte...Tried and True...Doors open up to wonderful things. Many of the Alpha Gorillas shy away from gung ho chimps who PM them about sources. Use your best judgement is all I can say. This is just what I do and the way I feel about it.


I agree. The last thing I would want to do is make some one feel uncomfortable, or put them in an awkward position. I would rather the time pass and some one feel they know he/she enough to share. My main point here is also to make friends and learn as much as I can. :2


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## The_Bombero

Thanks for the replies. Hopefully people understand that I wasn't looking for sources, I was just wondering about etiquette when trying to find out if a vendor is legitimate/reliable etc. Looks like I have my answer and luckily I have some time and a little patience. Thanks again for everyone's replies and understanding.


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## bonggoy

The_Bombero said:


> Thanks for the replies. Hopefully people understand that I wasn't looking for sources, I was just wondering about etiquette when trying to find out if a vendor is legitimate/reliable etc. Looks like I have my answer and luckily I have some time and a little patience. Thanks again for everyone's replies and understanding.


If you are not looking for sources, then you are not. No need to explain yourself. Like everyone said, you gotta pay your dues. NST, trades, herfs, etc., will get you known. *Good things will come to those who wait.*


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## pnoon

bump

Always good to be reminded of things that are important.


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