# Do not Support Scottish Tobacco in Atlanta



## phatmax (Mar 18, 2009)

*I was in Scottish Tobacco yesterday on Piedmont Rd in Atlanta looking at pipes and tobacco. (getting back into it after a hiatus)

The owner is some sort of Middle Easterner and while I was there he was talking to two Macanudo reps about the increase in tobacco taxes.

They where all in agreement that the increases are dumb and are actually going to reduce the revenue that the government gets from tobacco products, as people will become priced out of their vice.

They looked at it as over-milking the cash cow until it died.

Then the owner pops off with, "well, I voted for Obama, but I did not think he was going to do this first thing. This is terrible for my business."

I was very tempted to point out this:

. TOBACCO TAX INCREASE: Senators on March 23, 2007, voted, 59-40, to raise the U.S. tax on a package of cigarettes from 39 cents to $1 and use the $20 billion in new revenue over five years to expand the State Children's Health Insurance Program (SCHIP). A yes vote was to raise tobacco taxes. (SCR 21)

McCain voted no. Obama voted yes.

So, well over a YEAR before the election, Obama voted in the Senate to increase taxes... It is a REAL SHAME that the owner of Scottish Tobacco did not do just a LITTLE research into what his candidate stood for and VOTED FOR, before the business owner voted on Nov. 4th.

So the business owner that voted for HOPE and CHANGE, got just that... His business is going to CHANGE because fewer patrons will come in, and he is going to be HOPING to stay in business.

His pipe tobacco was 4 bucks an ounce PLUS when I asked about the briar pipes and his selection, he started talking about how they are better the "joint pipes", like I wanted to smoke pot in them.

Needless to say, I am not going to give money for over-priced products to a person who by proxy voted to increase taxes on something I like doing.

Edwards Pipes on Piedmont is a cool place and nice folks, you should go there, if so inclined.
*


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## Cypress (Jun 27, 2007)

I encourage this not to be a political debate as this is against our policy. Please make any responses respectfully.

4. Religious/Political Threads or Post

We are all mature adults but when dealing with these two subjects there will never be a good outcome, so for this reason Religious/Political discussions are NOT allowed. End of discussion.


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## zitro_joe (Oct 6, 2008)

Okay...
I kind of feel like there is an underlying issue here. I see the title, I read the post but the message is all over the place:noidea:


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## zitro_joe (Oct 6, 2008)

Cypress said:


> I encourage this not to be a political debate as this is against our policy. Please make any responses respectfully.
> 
> 4. Religious/Political Threads or Post
> 
> We are all mature adults but when dealing with these two subjects there will never be a good outcome, so for this reason Religious/Political discussions are NOT allowed. End of discussion.


Whew, glad that was settled early. There are several fuses in that message that can ignite some heated conversations.


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## phatmax (Mar 18, 2009)

Cypress said:


> I encourage this not to be a political debate as this is against our policy. Please make any responses respectfully.
> 
> 4. Religious/Political Threads or Post
> 
> We are all mature adults but when dealing with these two subjects there will never be a good outcome, so for this reason Religious/Political discussions are NOT allowed. End of discussion.


Sorry about that, can this get moved into the "Tobacco Legislation" sub-forum?

I thought that people would want to know that a business owner is helping to hurt our hobby/ lifestyle / life choice.

I do apologize and did not mean to start a ----storm.

BTW, is that you on your bike?

I ride an SV650 here in the Atlanta area.... Well, strike that, I AVOID Atlanta on my bike... that is like going bungee jumping over razor blades... might not get hurt, but not a good idea to start with.


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## nizzer (Apr 16, 2008)

What does him being middle eastern have to do with anything??? 

And you basically are claiming that you do not want to shop there because he decided to vote in a manner that did not fully represent his interests. I find that hard to believe. 

The only thing he did wrong was make a hint about using other materials in briar pipes. 

I feel like the guy who wrote this is definitely trying to market the other local b&m by badmouthing one that is run by a tax paying fellow american. 

BTW, I'm not trying to be disrespectful or make this political so if it seems like I am, I apologize.


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## zitro_joe (Oct 6, 2008)

nizzer said:


> What does him being middle eastern have to do with anything???


 Ditto... As soon as I read that the whole message lost credibility, to me. I feel that it was stated to incited a harsh reaction towards the shop he is attacking. Booooo!


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## phatmax (Mar 18, 2009)

nizzer said:


> What does him being middle eastern have to do with anything???
> 
> And you basically are claiming that you do not want to shop there because he decided to vote in a manner that did not fully represent his interests. I find that hard to believe.
> 
> ...


Sorry I brought any sort of regional descent into this.

A: I was simply telling a story, if he was hugely fat, I would have said the hugely fat owner. *ETA: I was rather suprised that a Middle Easterner was running a place called "Scottish Tobacco" just thought it was part of the story*

B: I will not patronize a business that is counter to my personal beliefs. I would not patronize a motorcycle shop that supported HP limit legislation on motorcycles or increasing taxes on my hobby. Or if the owner of said shop supported a legislator that did.

C: I was down on Piedmont doing work and there are actually 3 shops within 3 miles of each other and I had not been to any of them and visited them all. I really liked Edwards, and I am not being a shill for them. It was a real pipe shop, which I have never been to before and it was a great experience.

D: The place is WAY overpriced.

I am just frustrated that not only is our hobby / life choice being villified and attacked from the media and other outside sources, that there are people within our community who would willingly support people who are against us.

Again, I DO apologize for posting this in this forum and if the mods want to move or lock it, have right at it.


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## Cypress (Jun 27, 2007)

I see both points of view but rather than lock it I would encourage constructive conversations to make ones point clearer rather than being an argument of sort.


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## stanthetaxman (Oct 10, 2005)

Sounds to me like the owner, and the patron, have both made "informed" decisions?! Isn't America beautiful?


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## Acesfull (Dec 9, 2007)

They get what they deserve if they go under.... im just sayin. Next time they might do a little research before voting. I'm just sayin....


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## nizzer (Apr 16, 2008)

There is nothing wrong with judging a business by price and service etc... But from your original message it just seemed like you were deciding not too support the place because of the owner's political decisions. And that combined with the sensitivity of race was not giving off a very good overall message. That's the only reason I commented. IM glad you clarified your point.


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## mash (Jul 24, 2007)

Cypress said:


> I see both points of view but rather than lock it I would encourage constructive conversations to make ones point clearer rather than being an argument of sort.


How can something constructive come of this? The OP doesn't like Middle Easterners or Obama,we get it.


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## Cypress (Jun 27, 2007)

mash said:


> How can something constructive come of this? The OP doesn't like Middle Easterners or Obama,we get it.


I am trying to be fair here and not lock a thread because of my political views. I didn't want to piss anyone off by closing a thread especially since no one has reported it as of yet. I have been watching this thread all morning since it has been posted and so far it has not reached a level where it is ugly. As stated by the OP he was merely telling a story and part of it was his opinion on what the nationality of the owner. Would it be any different if he would have said Anglo-Saxon. America is a beautiful place where even an Asian descent person can own a successful Mexican or Cajun restaurant. Unfortunately if we are going to talk about SCHIP in this board then automatically it is political. What i have read in the statements that have been posted is that because he does not like the SCHIP tax he does not like anyone who supports it rather than just pin pointing it to just one person.


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## snowboardin58 (Dec 2, 2006)

stanthetaxman said:


> Sounds to me like the owner, and the patron, have both made "informed" decisions?! Isn't America beautiful?


Yep. We all get very well informed viewpoints and surely everybody listens. Oh America. That's why the past few months a "rare few" of us on campus often retreated to the cigar shop here. Common ground. OK that's not why, but somehow those who we struck conversations with were similar. And to tell you the truth, I'm at a freaking state university and I've met people with the same "rare beliefs(for a college) from basically every race.

That's sad that that owner had to be so ignorant to his actions because he could be hurting. Not that his vote made the difference, but it does in principle, surely. I can't stress that enough.

The man who owns the Smoke shop here at MSU was a big part of voting down the state tax raise in 2007 and he's started with flyers w/ phone numbers again for this years shot at doubling the tax. That would seriously put many shops out of business, especially a smaller college campus. A smaller shop can only do so much, especially when college kids aren't making up the majority of sales/esp. upper-top shelf smokes. They do pipe and rolling tobacco so their rolling tobacco is done. Damn Big Tobacco.


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## mash (Jul 24, 2007)

Cypress said:


> I am trying to be fair here and not lock a thread because of my political views. I didn't want to piss anyone off by closing a thread especially since no one has reported it as of yet. I have been watching this thread all morning since it has been posted and so far it has not reached a level where it is ugly. As stated by the OP he was merely telling a story and part of it was his opinion on what the nationality of the owner. Would it be any different if he would have said Anglo-Saxon. America is a beautiful place where even an Asian descent person can own a successful Mexican or Cajun restaurant. Unfortunately if we are going to talk about SCHIP in this board then automatically it is political. What i have read in the statements that have been posted is that because he does not like the SCHIP tax he does not like anyone who supports it rather than just pin pointing it to just one person.


Fair enough. Hopefully lesson learned here. The store owner's nationality was of absolutely no relevance here and I don't buy the subsequent explanation. Same with the political bent. This is a cigar forum, this kind of stuff just leads to trouble.


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## Brule (Aug 28, 2008)

There seems to be this accepted axiom that in choosing how to spend one's money, political leanings of the retailer should not matter. That's crazy. I don't want my money eventually going toward causes that I don't like and the OP's argument on that fact seems fine to me. The "middle eastern" thing really makes no matter one way or the other. There's no reason to assume the OP's comment was anything more than a casual observation and a bit of a stretch to consider it inherently racist.

Just my 2 cents... :???:


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## uptown_cigar (Nov 27, 2007)

Each and every one of us has the right to support or deny support to any business for ANY reason...political or not. That's the beauty of this country and the freedoms we have. If you choose to boycott a business because of their beliefs, go for it. There are others out there. With that being said, there are businesses out there that I choose to boycott, and others I choose to support for a variety of reasons.


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## Plazma (Mar 11, 2009)

Cypress said:


> I am trying to be fair here and not lock a thread because of my political views. I didn't want to piss anyone off by closing a thread especially since no one has reported it as of yet. I have been watching this thread all morning since it has been posted and so far it has not reached a level where it is ugly. As stated by the OP he was merely telling a story and part of it was his opinion on what the nationality of the owner. Would it be any different if he would have said Anglo-Saxon. America is a beautiful place where even an Asian descent person can own a successful Mexican or Cajun restaurant. Unfortunately if we are going to talk about SCHIP in this board then automatically it is political. What i have read in the statements that have been posted is that because he does not like the SCHIP tax he does not like anyone who supports it rather than just pin pointing it to just one person.


True but would you refer to said restaurant owner as "some kind of Asian" person? I'm not middle eastern and even I found that a bit aggressive.


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## d_day (Aug 24, 2008)

I think it's a little over the top to stop frequenting a store based on who the owner voted for for president. Every candidate has a platform that they run on. Most people will agree with some parts of it, and then agree with other parts of the other candidate's platform. Some issues are much more important than others. Which issues are important will vary from person to person. When making my decision to vote, SCHIP wasn't even a consideration.


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## Plazma (Mar 11, 2009)

Brule said:


> There seems to be this accepted axiom that in choosing how to spend one's money, political leanings of the retailer should not matter. That's crazy. I don't want my money eventually going toward causes that I don't like and the OP's argument on that fact seems fine to me. The "middle eastern" thing really makes no matter one way or the other. There's no reason to assume the OP's comment was anything more than a casual observation and a bit of a stretch to consider it inherently racist.
> 
> Just my 2 cents... :???:


Not saying that the OP is racist, that would require much more proof BUT.

"The shop owner is of middle eastern descent."

"The shop owner is some sort of middle easterner."

See how different they sound when you read them? Try saying it aloud.

Fortunately what people are saying is right, the man has the right to boycott the tobacco shop in question. Likeminded people have the right to agree with the OP as well. Just as others have the right to never step foot in a shop with a "McCain/Palin" sign up in their window. One of the reasons I love this country is that we're allowed to resist and protest.


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## Cypress (Jun 27, 2007)

Plazma said:


> True but would you refer to said restaurant owner as "some kind of Asian" person? I'm not middle eastern and even I found that a bit aggressive.


You are correct, the tone was not the best of choice, however there are 47 different Asian Countries which does include part of the middle east.


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## Acesfull (Dec 9, 2007)

d_day said:


> Most people will agree with some parts of it, and then agree with other parts of the other candidate's platform. Some issues are much more important than others. Which issues are important will vary from person to person.


I agree to a point d_day but SCHIP is going to cause alot of smaller businesses to go under due to the increase compiled with the current economic state. Its not a good time to pass that tax. If their business is their livelihood they should have thought harder. I've talked to a few owners of B&M's that I frequent at home about this via email and this seemed to be the consensus. When I placed my huge order even the guy on the phone commented that he is getting alot of them due to SCHIP and expecting business to slow down alot come April 1st. Here is an excerpt from an email

I asked..

Also how much is SCHIP going to effect prices? I heard it capped at $.43 per stick. How true is that?

He replied

Nick,
The Federal excise tax levied by SCHIP is 52.75% of the manufacturers cost, capped at 40.26 cents per stick. But that's where the tax starts. After manufacturer and retail mark-ups, we estimate that the effect at the stick level will be anywhere from .90 cents to $1.10 per cigar. We think it will effect our box prices by around $15.00 a box. These are just estimates because we haven't seen any new price sheets from our vendors yet. Overall, it's not a very pretty picture. The industry estimates that 25% of smaller, independent tobacco shops will go out of business this year.


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## phatmax (Mar 18, 2009)

:amen:


Plazma said:


> Not saying that the OP is racist, that would require much more proof BUT.
> 
> "The shop owner is of middle eastern descent."
> 
> ...


Did not mean to hit any sensitive nerves with the way I wrote it. It was certainly not meant to have a negative, I thought it was simply an odd combination, as every other tobacco shop I have ever been in is owned or manned buy older white guys (mostly with facial hair too)

I hope that does not mean I am facial-hairist... (joking)

Now, if I dumped out the rag-head, camel-jockey line... Well..... that would be pretty obvious. (which I am not, I am just demonstrating the difference between a description and racial epithats)

Simply seeing something and describing it, should not be considered as an overt or covert attempt at racism.

I am short. I can't tell you how many times I have heard people describe me as "the short guy". I don't take offense, because I am usually the shortest person in a group.

When people point out my wife to others, they usually say "the black girl with the _____ color shirt on" It is simply an observation of the easiest description.

I frequent a Halal restaurant by work (that has awesome food, btw) and it is run by a middle-eastern family, they could be Lebanese, Turkish, Iranian, I have not a clue, but they are super nice and good cooks. But all I am doing is giving a good desciption to let the reader get a fuller picture.

Could you imagine reading a good book, then going back and removing any sort of descriptive words about people, just in case it would offend someone. Literature would pretty much suck. This applies to real literature and not the writings of whacko Skinheads.

All in all, the store was over-priced, the owner was...presumptive to say the least, and on my part I feel that he has done damage to himself and to all others with his uninformed choices. It may just be a principle thing, and some people might not care about that, which is fine. I do and I hope that others do and when the time comes we can band together and protect our rights as Americans to smoke a stogie or light a pipe, without being taxed to death or made to look like villians.

I hope that the store owner comes around to and decides to fight unfair taxation and treatment of a selected group.


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## JCK (Nov 9, 2006)

I have my own personal reasons to stop supporting Scottish Tobaccos neither related to race or politics. I haven't walked in that shop in a year or so simply because I don't agree with the pricing structure.

While most pedestrian smokes are priced moderately, all of the HTF cigars, i.e. Fuente special releases are astronomical. $44 for a Casa Fuente Robusto for example.

There are so many shops in Atlanta that I have options. If Scottish Tobaccos hasn't sunk yet due to it's pricing structure, I don't think SCHIP is going to put them under either.

I believe this shop has agreements with some local lounges to provide the cigars. I'm not sure about this, but I do know one of the girls that worked there also was a cigar girl at a local club. 

The owner of the shop is actually a likeable fellow on the hustle, but you have to realize his point of view.


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## wolfmonk (Dec 14, 2008)

If the max increase to the retailer is .40 or so cents why would the end price be .90 - over $1 higher? What additional fees have to be tacked on, or are retailer's just taking advantage of the tax in order to add still more on for the customer? What am I missing?


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## Buddha024 (Jul 31, 2008)

d_day said:


> Some issues are much more important than others. Which issues are important will vary from person to person. When making my decision to vote, SCHIP wasn't even a consideration.


Exactly what I have been thinking d_day. I do not agree with the SCHIP tax, but that would not, and did not, affect how I voted for President.

:ss :w :ss


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## Acesfull (Dec 9, 2007)

wolfmonk said:


> If the max increase to the retailer is .40 or so cents why would the end price be .90 - over $1 higher? What additional fees have to be tacked on, or are retailer's just taking advantage of the tax in order to add still more on for the customer? What am I missing?


Glad ya asked....

Another when asked that exact question another B&M owner answered it with this..

Handmades are by manufacturer/distributor. Some companies are absorbing the costs, some are sticking to the tax, others are adding the tax and their percentage mark-up. Basically, the more hands that touch the product before it gets to you, the more chance you will see pricing go higher. Most B&Ms have no intentions of raising prices based on percentage, they are sticking with their current margins so any increase is on the part of the manu/dist.

SCHIP
The above link reaffirms by CI that there will be a potential $1 per stick increase as well....


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## d_day (Aug 24, 2008)

wolfmonk said:


> If the max increase to the retailer is .40 or so cents why would the end price be .90 - over $1 higher? What additional fees have to be tacked on, or are retailer's just taking advantage of the tax in order to add still more on for the customer? What am I missing?


 Distrubutors and retailers mark up their products by percentages, not by flat amounts. Let's say that retailer X has a 50% mark up. If he pays $5.00 for a cigar, he's going to sell them for $7.50. If that retailer's cost on that cigar goes up by $.40, his price will rise as well. His cost is now $5.40, and his sale price is now $8.10.

These taxes will all be assessed the first time the cigars change hands. So, the importer or manufacturer (if made in USA) will pay the tax. The importer will sell to a distributor, the distributer will sell to shops, or other smaller distributers. If the cigars change hands three times before they make it to the consumer, at the same 50% mark up, the $.40 tax turns into a $.90 increase. If you add in a second distributer, that same $.40 turns into $1.35.


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## Cypress (Jun 27, 2007)

I really would like to caution people from overspending because of the SCHIP Tax. I am seeing it now as there have been quite a few great deals in the BST section as people are kinda strapped for cash. I have an ungodly feeling that later on this year the people who overspent prior to April 1 will be taking a big loss trying to recover some cash during hard times. I would recommend buy what you can now and not overspend and give yourself a budget to live off of throughout the year.


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## d_day (Aug 24, 2008)

Cypress said:


> I really would like to caution people from overspending because of the SCHIP Tax. I am seeing it now as there have been quite a few great deals in the BST section as people are kinda strapped for cash. I have an ungodly feeling that later on this year the people who overspent prior to April 1 will be taking a big loss trying to recover some cash during hard times. I would recommend buy what you can now and not overspend and give yourself a budget to live off of throughout the year.


 I've been thinking the exact same thing, and haven't increased my spending at all.


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## Frinkiac7 (Dec 12, 2008)

I don't think it's fair to boycott a store just because the owner (naively, perhaps) voted for Obama. He made his choice, now his business has to live with the consequences. That's punishment enough for him.


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## cab28 (Feb 24, 2008)

This is quite a rant for someones second day on the site.


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## docruger (Feb 12, 2009)

well we all make bad choices at times but all we can do is to live with them and thats bag enough with out others reminding us.:doh:


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## Buddha024 (Jul 31, 2008)

cab28 said:


> This is quite a rant for someones second day on the site.


Indeed.

:ss :w :ss


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## DBCcigar (Apr 24, 2008)

Let me chime in....

The owner of Scottish Tobacco (Sheffy) is a freaking idiot! He'll cuss you and everything else for no reason at all. I've lived in Atlanta my entire life and I've only stepped foot in his store one time. His prices are insane ($99.00 for an Opus X) and his attitude sucks. I cannot tell you how many people have said they will never enter his store again. I'm not even going to get into the reason why he is still in business, especially with a better shop is literally 100 yards away. You figure it out.


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## cab28 (Feb 24, 2008)

DBCcigar said:


> Let me chime in....
> 
> The owner of Scottish Tobacco (Sheffy) is a freaking idiot! He'll cuss you and everything else for no reason at all. I've lived in Atlanta my entire life and I've only stepped foot in his store one time. His prices are insane ($99.00 for an Opus X) and his attitude sucks. I cannot tell you how many people have said they will never enter his store again. I'm not even going to get into the reason why he is still in business, especially with a better shop is literally 100 yards away. You figure it out.


 Now this makes sense to me.


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## phatmax (Mar 18, 2009)

Might be my second day on the site, but I have been on the internets a very long time....










actually:

Me and the wife...


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## zitro_joe (Oct 6, 2008)

phatmax said:


> Sorry I brought any sort of regional descent into this.
> 
> A: I was simply telling a story, if he was hugely fat, I would have said the hugely fat owner. *ETA: I was rather suprised that a Middle Easterner was running a place called "Scottish Tobacco" just thought it was part of the story*
> 
> ...


Alright bro, I'll take your word that you didn't have any racial/poitical agenda.

Just a suggestion, you can do what you want...when you rant about an issue, or person, stick to the necessary facts that support the thought/ opinion. The extra details included in the OP were detractors and seemed to suggest ulterior motives for posting. Know what I mean?

Due to information provided by others posted, I have a better idea for who this guy is; and I wont support that business.

:grouphug: Welcome to the Fora!

Joe


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## snowboardin58 (Dec 2, 2006)

Plazma said:


> Not saying that the OP is racist, that would require much more proof BUT.
> 
> "The shop owner is of middle eastern descent."
> 
> ...


I guess its just an observation. Its prominent in the mind because it is seen as uncommon. Its part of a branding of cigar shop owners in the US to, who they aren't commonly represented by, Arabs.

We don't progress until we can use descriptors without letting it run through our head as somebody hating. Leaving Facebook... | Facebook

black girls intelligent response I commended in comments YouTube - Is Black History Month Racist?

And unfortunately on Halloween somebody through a bike seat through my dorm window, shattering glass everywhere, and almost hitting my roommate's girlfriend. My McCain Palin sign was a ridiculous minority at this school(besides almost every cigar smokers I've met here!!), and was stuck to the bike seat on the ground. The school didn't report it like normal, even though my roommate had a decent description of that culprit.

Let's smoke! "Earth!" haha... err people/humans


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## snowboardin58 (Dec 2, 2006)

I'll smoke mine tonight to hoping that shop owner turns his life around so that frown isn't knocked upside down. Nursery rhyme time! Ok done. 

I hope all B&M's can make the best of it and survive.. the one here in EL doesn't even know their exact strategy yet.. I don't know if they're having sales, but I don't think they are. Sales because of a B&M payed floor tax, which is REALLY ridiculous and more of a level of unfair than the laws themselves!


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## cab28 (Feb 24, 2008)

phatmax said:


> Might be my second day on the site, but I have been on the internets a very long time....


 Stay home and eat all the fricken chips Kip.


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## Cypress (Jun 27, 2007)

:focus::focus::focus::focus::focus::focus:


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## Frinkiac7 (Dec 12, 2008)

snowboardin58 said:


> I guess its just an observation. Its prominent in the mind because it is seen as uncommon. Its part of a branding of cigar shop owners in the US to, who they aren't commonly represented by, Arabs.


On an interesting side note, I've noticed that a huge chunk of smoke shops here in my city ARE owned by Arab/Middle-Eastern guys. Some of them have been around for years, and I've noticed a few guys come in and buy out the "old guard" of Caucasian smoke shop owners and continue to run their stores well.

I don't buy into mass race/ethnic stereotyping, but all the Arab guys who own many of the smoke shops I frequent are some of the nicest guys around...always talkative, helpful, willing to shoot the shit with you or yuck it up. AND this one guy has THE hottest daughter who sometimes helps him out in the store. I had to stop going there when I realized I was favoring that shop way too heavily over other worthy B&Ms in town! So to anyone trying to insinuate that Arab smokeshop owners are a bunch of d-bags, the stereotype doesn't hold any water 'round my way!


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## Nickerson (Mar 19, 2009)

phatmax said:


> Me and the wife...


OMG INTERRACIAL LOVE!!!!11

jokes .

Surprised this threads still open. xD


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## piperman (Sep 8, 2005)

I dont think it has anything to do with who made it to the oval office the bill would have passed either way. So you might as well boycott all vendors.


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## Plazma (Mar 11, 2009)

DBCcigar said:


> Let me chime in....
> 
> The owner of Scottish Tobacco (Sheffy) is a freaking idiot! He'll cuss you and everything else for no reason at all. I've lived in Atlanta my entire life and I've only stepped foot in his store one time. His prices are insane ($99.00 for an Opus X) and his attitude sucks. I cannot tell you how many people have said they will never enter his store again. I'm not even going to get into the reason why he is still in business, especially with a better shop is literally 100 yards away. You figure it out.


Haha now that's an even better reason to boycott the guy's store, not his political decisions. That's actually a big reason why I just shop online. Its hard to find good B&Ms around where I live, and when you do they aren't always the friendliest people.


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## Plazma (Mar 11, 2009)

snowboardin58 said:


> I guess its just an observation. Its prominent in the mind because it is seen as uncommon. Its part of a branding of cigar shop owners in the US to, who they aren't commonly represented by, Arabs.
> 
> We don't progress until we can use descriptors without letting it run through our head as somebody hating. Leaving Facebook... | Facebook
> 
> ...


Here in Southern California I've been hard pressed to find a tobacco shop that isn't run by Middle Easterners (as an aside). I'm not nor have I ever been a supporter of the conservative movement or the GOP. The whole McCain/Palin thing got really out of control and it was disheartening to see people being haranged for their political views.

Through the entire campaign for this election I saw a lot of news stories about people being harassed and assaulted for their beliefs on both sides. Its unfortunate and UnAmerican IMHO.


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## snowboardin58 (Dec 2, 2006)

Yes I really do get sick of it.. Election 2000 didn't seem as bad as 2004, and 1996 probably wasn't as bad as 2000.. but it has become far too much of a finger-pointing, name calling, twisting the truth game!



Plazma said:


> Here in Southern California I've been hard pressed to find a tobacco shop that isn't run by Middle Easterners (as an aside). I'm not nor have I ever been a supporter of the conservative movement or the GOP. The whole McCain/Palin thing got really out of control and it was disheartening to see people being haranged for their political views.
> 
> Through the entire campaign for this election I saw a lot of news stories about people being harassed and assaulted for their beliefs on both sides. Its unfortunate and UnAmerican IMHO.


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## Brule (Aug 28, 2008)

piperman said:


> I dont think it has anything to do with who made it to the oval office the bill would have passed either way. So you might as well boycott all vendors.


Bush vetoed previous bills like it several times. It was generally considered if Obama won it would pass and if McCain won it would not.

(<-- not a Dem or Rep)


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## snowboardin58 (Dec 2, 2006)

Oh wow, I can't say I've been in a US B&M that wasn't owned/operated by American cultured people(clear English speaking, and a run-of-the-mill shop) But I guess its more complicated.. I guess when I refer to an ethnic group, I refer to so with an attached meaning of them retaining their root characteristics. The more Americanized I would I could see running into one black owned, and possibly an Indian owned, B&M up North.. I guess outside of Dearborn, Mi, it doesn't seem nearly as likely. But I guess not! Are the areas you find these shops generally more heavily populated by Arabs? Even the smoke shop here sells incense and Hookah products!! ha



Nickerson said:


> OMG INTERRACIAL LOVE!!!!11
> 
> jokes .
> 
> Surprised this threads still open. xD


ha I know.. I guess it hasn't technically gone wrong. Well other than off topic to discuss the first post's nature b/c of a misinterpretation (and unfortunate this happens all too often in today's world for that matter)


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## snowboardin58 (Dec 2, 2006)

Nickerson and Phatmax, are you guys from Michigan? I see Plymouth and Canton



Frinkiac7 said:


> I don't think it's fair to boycott a store just because the owner (naively, perhaps) voted for Obama. He made his choice, now his business has to live with the consequences. That's punishment enough for him.


Ha yea, but he could boycott with a double meaning that (while its a lot) to want him to "go under," (or make less, I guess) it is the principle that he alone cannot do it, but he makes a difference by boycotting(like voting voting) because everybody may act in the same manner of "my vote doesn't make a difference."

Then again I would not want business to go under because I' pulling for the American economy! And my parents are Small Business Owners, so there's another pull. Small businesses are what makes America go (well, and physically, alcohol and cigarettes)


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## ablabmsz (Dec 15, 2019)

That "some sort of Middle Easterner" in the second sentence precedes what was said or done in the shop lets us know what your issue really is with it. Shame on you.


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