# Cigar Marijuana



## Stogie

I find it interesting that in some states like California it is easier to get a presciption to buy and smoke marijuana then it is to find a legal place to smoke cigars. I have never smoke marijuana but I would think that the effects of cigars is way less then the effects of marijuana yet the law makers come down harder on us? Make sense to you?


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## ghe-cl

While it isn't overly difficult to get a prescription for medical marijuana in most California metro areas and to find a dispensary where you can purchase it, the process is by no means as simple as it is to walk into a cigar shop, buy and smoke a cigar, which can be done in just about every California locality of size.


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## Stogie

ghe said:


> While it isn't overly difficult to get a prescription for medical marijuana in most California metro areas and to find a dispensary where you can purchase it, the process is by no means as simple as it is to walk into a cigar shop, buy and smoke a cigar, which can be done in just about every California locality of size.


The reason I think it is easy in California to obtain legal Weed is because when I was down at Venice Beach in California a few months back there was a ton of walk up Kush Doctors as they call them. See pic. There were even people smoking it all around the beach in broad daylight.


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## Cigary

It's the politics of tobacco...marijuana at some point is going to be legal and controlled by gov't because of the revenue it will produce and it will be a tax driven commodity. Cigars do not provide the gov't enough revenue and in these economic times "weed" is something that even the gov't is going to get involved in just like in prohibition times...once it was legalized the revenue it generated from taxes was enough to keep it going and still going strong. Most prescription medications are not good for us but it gives the Gov't enough money that they allow it. Compare the history of marijuana over the last 100 years of use and some of the medications over the last 10 years and see which ones are worse. Money...revenue...that is what drives business and Gov't..always has and always will. What's good for the public is secondary.


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## TonyBrooklyn

Good post Cigary i agree i would give ya a bump but it keeps telling me i gotta spread some around first. Ah well I'll go find some other poor soul to bother. LOL Heres one in thought anyways.:bump:


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## Cigary

I hear ya Tony,,,it won't let me give you more either so we'll just have to wait and spread more around until they let us bump each other again.


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## BTcigars

Politicians have to have a common enemy to fight against and in this case it is tobacco. This serves as a way to rally the troops and divert attention from matters that really do warrant such attention. 

I do believe that weed will be legalized here but it's only a matter of time before there is a backlash. Right now people think its the greatest thing and it will help in so many ways to legalize it. The truth is that weed is a drug! Whenever I watch the news and see people going to dispensaries, they are always 20 somethings that hide their faces from the cameras.

Some dispensaries are regularly shut down because they do illegal busines. A chain was raided and was said that in two years they made millions of dollars from illegal sales. When it becomes legalized and the reality of its true nature comes through, then it will be a whole new mess to deal with.


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## JGD

BTcigars said:


> Politicians have to have a common enemy to fight against and in this case it is tobacco. This serves as a way to rally the troops and divert attention from matters that really do warrant such attention.
> 
> I do believe that weed will be legalized here but it's only a matter of time before there is a backlash. Right now people think its the greatest thing and it will help in so many ways to legalize it. The truth is that weed is a drug! Whenever I watch the news and see people going to dispensaries, they are always 20 somethings that hide their faces from the cameras.
> 
> Some dispensaries are regularly shut down because they do illegal busines. A chain was raided and was said that in two years they made millions of dollars from illegal sales. When it becomes legalized and the reality of its true nature comes through, then it will be a whole new mess to deal with.


Out of curiosity, what do you think the backlash will be?


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## BTcigars

jadeg001 said:


> Out of curiosity, what do you think the backlash will be?


I believe that it will be crime. The NAACP supports the legalization effort because they say too many black youths are in jail over simple pot possession. This is one example that illustrates that there is a problem and by legalizing, all you are doing is saying that you dont want to deal with the problem anymore.

Another thing is growers. There was one couple in the foot hills whom had 600+ plants growing in their backyard. Their neighborhood reeked of weed but it was all "medicinal". This puts their neighbors at risk when people openly grow plants and if someone wants to steal the plants, the innocent neighbors could be caught in the criminal act.

I also think CPS will have new concerns. There is a girl I know that is a friend of a friend of a friend. She is a real pothead. Her dad gets medicinal weed and smokes it with his wife and they actually turned her onto it so now they all smoke it openly in their house. Now she has a 3yo of her own and I can only imagine that the cycle will continue.

Yes I know I am ranting but it seems like the motivation behind the legalization is to reduce jail/prison population and taxation. California is in such a money pit right now and the promise of a new source of revenue will be very tempting to pass it through.

Once the novelty of legalization wears off, thats when the new problems associated with it will start to mature (Im thinking about 3-5 years down the road).


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## Cigary

There are so many realities to this...regardless if you're an advocate or not. Just the unbelievable amount of money that is spent because of this...if it were legalized the State makes a ton of money. The judicial system is relieved in the prosecution of those who sell, grow and buy and this is an amazing amount of money we're talking about. Legalizing this would pretty much take care of that element of society that uses this as a means to threaten or kill others over warefare in this industry. I don't condone the legalizing of it except for medicinal use...if people want to use it for recreational use that is their business just like alcohol and as long as they aren't driving under the influence where it affects others then that is something they can deal with. What people do is their own business as long as it does not interfere with my life.


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## TonyBrooklyn

Cigary said:


> There are so many realities to this...regardless if you're an advocate or not. Just the unbelievable amount of money that is spent because of this...if it were legalized the State makes a ton of money. The judicial system is relieved in the prosecution of those who sell, grow and buy and this is an amazing amount of money we're talking about. Legalizing this would pretty much take care of that element of society that uses this as a means to threaten or kill others over warefare in this industry. I don't condone the legalizing of it except for medicinal use...if people want to use it for recreational use that is their business just like alcohol and as long as they aren't driving under the influence where it affects others then that is something they can deal with. What people do is their own business as long as it does not interfere with my life.


Spoken like a true American my thoughts exactly.:usa:
Might be great for export as well.:dunno:
At least we could shrink the trade deficit.:doh:


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## Dan-Hur

I'm on the fence about it, myself. There are some fair arguments to legalization, but I don't know what the long term effects might be. For example, I think it was Amsterdam that legalized heroin recently, even going so far as to provide it for people at hospitals and allowing them the option of seeking treatment for the addiction. Apparently, heroin use in Amsterdam had reached a point where people were nonchalantly shooting up in public. Their answer to that was to legalize the drug to bring crime down and keep the addicts off the streets. Now, I understand that there are crimes associated with heroin that legalizing the drug and providing it for addicts would alleviate, but honestly, isn't this silly? Making an illegal activity legal doesn't mean people stop doing it, it just means that it's no longer a crime. Legalize assault, for example, and violent crime rates will drop. That's an extreme example, but it fits the point. To me, it seems like a way to statistically hide the problem without actually fixing it. I guess what I'm trying to say is: are we eventually going to start legalizing hard drugs in order hide a problem rather then deal with it? At some point down the line, will I be funding a stranger's addiction or what?


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## JGD

BTcigars said:


> I believe that it will be crime. The NAACP supports the legalization effort because they say too many black youths are in jail over simple pot possession. This is one example that illustrates that there is a problem and by legalizing, all you are doing is saying that you dont want to deal with the problem anymore.
> 
> Another thing is growers. There was one couple in the foot hills whom had 600+ plants growing in their backyard. Their neighborhood reeked of weed but it was all "medicinal". This puts their neighbors at risk when people openly grow plants and if someone wants to steal the plants, the innocent neighbors could be caught in the criminal act.
> 
> I also think CPS will have new concerns. There is a girl I know that is a friend of a friend of a friend. She is a real pothead. Her dad gets medicinal weed and smokes it with his wife and they actually turned her onto it so now they all smoke it openly in their house. Now she has a 3yo of her own and I can only imagine that the cycle will continue.
> 
> Yes I know I am ranting but it seems like the motivation behind the legalization is to reduce jail/prison population and taxation. California is in such a money pit right now and the promise of a new source of revenue will be very tempting to pass it through.
> 
> Once the novelty of legalization wears off, thats when the new problems associated with it will start to mature (Im thinking about 3-5 years down the road).


I understand your points, however, I receptively disagree as I think legalization will in reality help these issues rather then hurt them. For instance, with the crime aspect in terms in people in prison, I have seen first hand how the judicial system has wasted thousands of taxpayer dollars on prosecuting people for marijuana possession. If it was legalized not only would we save money that way but we would also save money in terms of paying for the incarceration of those convicted on marijuana charges.

On the point of neighbors being caught in the cross-fire in stealing marijuana I don;t think this will happen nearly as much as it does now. My reasoning is that once it is legal and there is nothing stopping someone from growing their own, or going to the store and buying it, the motivation to steal it will be the same as say someone stealing a 6-pack of beer or a pack of cigarettes. It simply won;t be worth the risk.

As to the story of the the girl you know, again, once it is legal it will be no different than someone who is addicted to nicotine. In fact, it will be arguably better as it has been proven that unlike nicotine, marijuana is not physically addictive.

Finally, the taxation benefit will be huge. There is a potential of billions of dollars coming in to the country through taxing marijuana similarly to how tobacco is taxed. When you add that to money saved (see above) then we could make some strides to get out of the ridiculous debt the country is in.

Now, obviously I am for legalization of marijuana, but I will also state that although I have smoked marijuana in the past, I no longer do, and I haven't in a long time. In fact, if it was legalized tomorrow I would not plan on smoking it as its simply not for me.


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## JGD

Dan-Hur said:


> I'm on the fence about it, myself. There are some fair arguments to legalization, but I don't know what the long term effects might be. For example, I think it was Amsterdam that legalized heroin recently, even going so far as to provide it for people at hospitals and allowing them the option of seeking treatment for the addiction. Apparently, heroin use in Amsterdam had reached a point where people were nonchalantly shooting up in public. Their answer to that was to legalize the drug to bring crime down and keep the addicts off the streets. Now, I understand that there are crimes associated with heroin that legalizing the drug and providing it for addicts would alleviate, but honestly, isn't this silly? Making an illegal activity legal doesn't mean people stop doing it, it just means that it's no longer a crime. Legalize assault, for example, and violent crime rates will drop. That's an extreme example, but it fits the point. To me, it seems like a way to statistically hide the problem without actually fixing it. I guess what I'm trying to say is: are we eventually going to start legalizing hard drugs in order hide a problem rather then deal with it? At some point down the line, will I be funding a stranger's addiction or what?


The problem with your analogy is that the difference between marijuana and heroine is astronomical. Heroin is a terrible drug that has destroyed inner city neighborhoods such as those in Baltimore. Marijuana has never been shown to be a direct cause of death, nor is it physically addictive.


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## tpharkman

Just because something is made legal and then taxed doesn't mean all of the problems are going to go away. I imagine the amount of illegal producers of the "hippie cabbage" are going to grow not shrink. Once pot is legalized you are still going to have backyard growers and street dealers pushing the chronic without collecting tax. When that happens there is still going to be crimes associated with pot that are going to cost the taxpayer money and land people behind bars.

I may be wrong about this and I will admit it publicly if I am but mark my words legalization will be a magnafication of the problem not the "fix".

Question: If CCs are legalized but taxed in an outrageous manner and if you could grow and roll your own cubans in your basement, corn field, forest, or mountain hideaway would you buy them legally and pay the tax or would you grown your own or buy from somebody who did for a fraction of the cost?


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## teedles915

I may make a few enemies by posting this, but those who know me know that I'm not one to hold bcak my true feeling so here it is.

I am of the believe that what a consenting adult chooses to do in their own home or property, that does not effect me, my friends, or my family is their business and only their business. I do not want the government, or anyone for that matter to come into my house and tell me what I can and can not do. Why do I care if the neighbor chooses to do weed, cocaine, acid, heroin, or any other drug for that matter. If they are adults, are not harming chlidren, or anyone else that doesn't have the ability to make an educated decision. 

With all that being said I haven't touched an illegal drug in 8 years, nor would I if they were legal. But I didn't make that choice because someone else told me it was wrong. I made it because I am an adult who should have the right to make a decision that effects me and my family, without the interference of anyone else.


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## Dan-Hur

jadeg001 said:


> The problem with your analogy is that the difference between marijuana and heroine is astronomical. Heroin is a terrible drug that has destroyed inner city neighborhoods such as those in Baltimore. Marijuana has never been shown to be a direct cause of death, nor is it physically addictive.


I wasn't trying to say that marijuana was comparable to heroin in terms of addiction, societal or bodily consequences, only that legalizing a petty drug like marijuana may lead to legalizing harder drugs like heroin. Like I said, I'm on the fence about it. I can only speak for myself when I say that I wouldn't use it even if it were legal. And I'm not trying to come off as superior when I say that, it's just a personal choice of mine. I don't drink, either.


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## Herf N Turf

We tend to be very short-sighted in this country.

As a die hard constitutionalist, whether or not I believe in the use of marijuana, heroin, whatever, is moot. The fact is that drug use and anything else an individual chooses to do with their own body is protected by the Constitution. The Harrison Act, which was the beginning of all de-legalization of substances, was a well orchestrated and highly controversial action, which everyone knew was being used to side-step the constitution. Because of racism and media smoke and mirrors, the public was duped into turning a blind eye to this travesty. 

Likewise, Nixon's "war on drugs" was nothing but a war on minorities and youth culture. It's cost us trillions of dollars, through ill-advised interdiction policies, destroyed an entire segment of the minority population, glutted our jails, prisons and judicial systems... and for what? The use of drugs has never been higher.


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## Dan-Hur

Herf N Turf said:


> We tend to be very short-sighted in this country.
> 
> As a die hard constitutionalist, whether or not I believe in the use of marijuana, heroin, whatever, is moot. The fact is that drug use and anything else an individual chooses to do with their own body is protected by the Constitution. The Harrison Act, which was the beginning of all de-legalization of substances, was a well orchestrated and highly controversial action, which everyone knew was being used to side-step the constitution. Because of racism and media smoke and mirrors, the public was duped into turning a blind eye to this travesty.
> 
> Likewise, Nixon's "war on drugs" was nothing but a war on minorities and youth culture. It's cost us trillions of dollars, through ill-advised interdiction policies, destroyed an entire segment of the minority population, glutted our jails, prisons and judicial systems... and for what? The use of drugs has never been higher.


Don, I agree with you. I firmly believe in the notion that if it neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg, it's none of my business. However, I don't know that decriminalizing these drugs is the right solution. If you spill some milk, you have to clean it up, but you can't put it back in the glass. What I mean is that you can't go back to original situation after peoples' mindsets have been changed. A lot of people now expect the government to intercede on just about everything, which is why I brought up Amsterdam. In Amsterdam, the drug problem got so bad they started using government money to provide addicts with heroin. If that happens here, well then my pocket has officially been picked.


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## youngstogiesmoker

TonyBrooklyn said:


> Spoken like a true American my thoughts exactly.:usa:
> Might be great for export as well.:dunno:
> At least we could shrink the trade deficit.:doh:


I'm gonna go completely off topic, but shrinking the trade deficit isn't neccesarily as good a thing as it seems like it would be actually. I didn't beleive it either but every economics professor I have had has explained it to me, but thats another discussion entirely.

:focus: for me! lol



jadeg001 said:


> I understand your points, however, I receptively disagree as I think legalization will in reality help these issues rather then hurt them. For instance, with the crime aspect in terms in people in prison, I have seen first hand how the judicial system has wasted thousands of taxpayer dollars on prosecuting people for marijuana possession. If it was legalized not only would we save money that way but we would also save money in terms of paying for the incarceration of those convicted on marijuana charges.
> 
> On the point of neighbors being caught in the cross-fire in stealing marijuana I don;t think this will happen nearly as much as it does now. My reasoning is that once it is legal and there is nothing stopping someone from growing their own, or going to the store and buying it, the motivation to steal it will be the same as say someone stealing a 6-pack of beer or a pack of cigarettes. It simply won;t be worth the risk.
> 
> As to the story of the the girl you know, again, once it is legal it will be no different than someone who is addicted to nicotine. In fact, it will be arguably better as it has been proven that unlike nicotine, marijuana is not physically addictive.
> 
> Finally, the taxation benefit will be huge. There is a potential of billions of dollars coming in to the country through taxing marijuana similarly to how tobacco is taxed. When you add that to money saved (see above) then we could make some strides to get out of the ridiculous debt the country is in.
> 
> Now, obviously I am for legalization of marijuana, but I will also state that although I have smoked marijuana in the past, I no longer do, and I haven't in a long time. In fact, if it was legalized tomorrow I would not plan on smoking it as its simply not for me.


I agree with most of the points here, and I guess I can throw out that I have never smoked marijuana in my life and I know a few buddies who damn near threw their lives away using it. The economic value would be huge, especially in the beginning, however its surprising how little the overall usage would actually change. Its surprising how few people would actually decide to smoke it even if it was legal, I know I wouldnt personally.

I am for the legalization because it gives everyone more money, states have more money, so more things get fixed that needs fixed. Less incentive to tax everyone to pay for shit. Its sad, but money rules everything, and having more money is good.

That being said, I think you gotta do some studies, at least get them started on long term effects.



Dan-Hur said:


> Don, I agree with you. I firmly believe in the notion that if it neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg, it's none of my business. However, I don't know that decriminalizing these drugs is the right solution. If you spill some milk, you have to clean it up, but you can't put it back in the glass. What I mean is that you can't go back to original situation after peoples' mindsets have been changed. A lot of people now expect the government to intercede on just about everything, which is why I brought up Amsterdam. In Amsterdam, the drug problem got so bad they started using government money to provide addicts with heroin. If that happens here, well then my pocket has officially been picked.


I see your point and I think I can add to it by saying that yes marijuana is not addictive, but it is a gateway drug (I wanna say there are studiers to prove that but I'm not sure) which could lead to further drugs being legalized.

However I can never understand why some people think that when a decision is made, that decision will inevitably be repeated. I'll use the recent baseball blown call perfect game. Bud Selig could have overturned the call while eating cereal the next morning but he refused to do that because he thinks that it would open up all calls to be reviewed...simply put, no it doesnt have to work that way. You can draw the line and say "this is a one-time thing and does not pertain to any other call ever." and thats the end of the discussion. Govt could legalize it and write _in the legislation_ that this is it; without certain studies and proof of the safety of all illegal substances that want to be reviewed they cannot be reviewed, make all those tests damn near impossible and the issue is over, marijuana is legal and other drugs will never be.

I do think that the whole push for legalization will blow over as the economy continues to improve and the need for money becomes less desperate.

Well I read over that and some may have came off as me being an asshole so I gotta say that I'm not trying to offend anyone and dont mean any harm to anyone at all, sorry if I offended anyone in anyway. :hippie:

Damn that was a long post, and nowhere near the question posed by the OP...sorry...

I think that if marijuana was legalized, you would see the places you could smoke it take as big a hit and probably bigger than the hit that we cigar smokers have taken. Right now they hide behind the "its for medical purposes excuse". If legalized, restaurants, parks, cities, public places in general, would say "sorry, no smoking allowed" and I'm sure some, if not most cigar lounges would not allow marijuana

whew...my fingers have blisters...


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## Mante

Cigary said:


> * until they let us bump each other again*.


Please, for the love of god, keep this in private Gary. I dont want to witness any such thing as you & Tony bumping uglies thankyou!:jaw:u


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## wsamsky

tpharkman said:


> Just because something is made legal and then taxed doesn't mean all of the problems are going to go away. I imagine the amount of illegal producers of the "hippie cabbage" are going to grow not shrink. Once pot is legalized you are still going to have backyard growers and street dealers pushing the chronic without collecting tax. When that happens there is still going to be crimes associated with pot that are going to cost the taxpayer money and land people behind bars.
> 
> I may be wrong about this and I will admit it publicly if I am but mark my words legalization will be a magnafication of the problem not the "fix".
> 
> Question: If CCs are legalized but taxed in an outrageous manner and if you could grow and roll your own cubans in your basement, corn field, forest, or mountain hideaway would you buy them legally and pay the tax or would you grown your own or buy from somebody who did for a fraction of the cost?


The problem with your question is that you can't grow and roll your own cubans because you arent in cuba and you havent learned the trade of rolling cigars. I think this will also be valid for marijuana. There are many diffrent types of strains and marijuana is not easy to grow, it is a trade just like rolling cigars. It would be easier for lazy stoners to just buy weed and pay taxs to get instant gratification rather than investing time, money, and hard work for delayed gratification but saving some money.


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## zeavran1

youngstogiesmoker said:


> I see your point and I think I can add to it by saying that yes marijuana is not addictive, but it is a gateway drug (I wanna say there are studiers to prove that but I'm not sure) which could lead to further drugs being legalized.


I think this is the most important point that's been made on this thread. I grew up in the Bronx, NY and ALL of the people I know that got mixed up in heavy drugs started with pot. Again, not all got hooked on drugs but ALL heavy drug users I know started with pot. Once they got used to the high they looked for something else. Just like a new cigar smoker usually starts with mild smokes until they look for something stronger.


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## Cigary

zeavran1 said:


> I think this is the most important point that's been made on this thread. I grew up in the Bronx, NY and ALL of the people I know that got mixed up in heavy drugs started with pot. Again, not all got hooked on drugs but ALL heavy drug users I know started with pot. Once they got used to the high they looked for something else. Just like a new cigar smoker usually starts with mild smokes until they look for something stronger.


If people want to do drugs cough syrup can be used as a gateway drug...anything that will get you high,,,,huffing, drugs, etc. is what people do because they want to get high. To say that weed is a gateway drug is like saying cars are the reason for speeding tickets. People choose in life what they want to do...it's choices and if getting high is something they want to do they are going to find whatever is available. People drink but not all become alcoholics...using cigars as an example for addiction or going to something stronger is a bit of a stretch. I know plenty of people who don't smoke something stronger and love mild ones. We have to get back to the beginning where people choose to do the things they do and are responsible for those acts. For the same idea of people who eat a ton of food and weigh 500 pounds...is a donut a gateway food for them?

I never did agree with the idea of "gateway" anything because it sounds as if human beings just don't have a choice in what they consume, smoke, drink, buy, etc. We make a conscious choice from getting up in the morning to going to sleep at night...at the end of the day if I become addicted to anything it's my choice and as long as my addiction doesn't hurt anybody else it becomes my choice...even if it's the wrong choice I still own it. Legislating choices is a Pandoras Box that usually ends up badly.

Understand I am saying this with all due respect and know this may not be something you will agree with but isn't this what we are talking about as well? Giving each of us the "choice" to have our own opinions without having to worry about somebody legislating our thoughts?:beerchug:


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## JGD

Cigary said:


> If people want to do drugs cough syrup can be used as a gateway drug...anything that will get you high,,,,huffing, drugs, etc. is what people do because they want to get high. To say that weed is a gateway drug is like saying cars are the reason for speeding tickets. People choose in life what they want to do...it's choices and if getting high is something they want to do they are going to find whatever is available. People drink but not all become alcoholics...using cigars as an example for addiction or going to something stronger is a bit of a stretch. I know plenty of people who don't smoke something stronger and love mild ones. We have to get back to the beginning where people choose to do the things they do and are responsible for those acts. For the same idea of people who eat a ton of food and weigh 500 pounds...is a donut a gateway food for them?
> 
> I never did agree with the idea of "gateway" anything because it sounds as if human beings just don't have a choice in what they consume, smoke, drink, buy, etc. We make a conscious choice from getting up in the morning to going to sleep at night...at the end of the day if I become addicted to anything it's my choice and as long as my addiction doesn't hurt anybody else it becomes my choice...even if it's the wrong choice I still own it. Legislating choices is a Pandoras Box that usually ends up badly.
> 
> Understand I am saying this with all due respect and know this may not be something you will agree with but isn't this what we are talking about as well? Giving each of us the "choice" to have our own opinions without having to worry about somebody legislating our thoughts?:beerchug:


I completely agree Gary.


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## zeavran1

Cigary said:


> If people want to do drugs cough syrup can be used as a gateway drug...anything that will get you high,,,,huffing, drugs, etc. is what people do because they want to get high. To say that weed is a gateway drug is like saying cars are the reason for speeding tickets. People choose in life what they want to do...it's choices and if getting high is something they want to do they are going to find whatever is available.


Just giving you the facts as I know them. My friends and some family who have had problems with heavy drugs started with pot. They didn't do cough syrup, they didn't sniff aerosol cans or anything like that. The fact is they smoked pot FIRST. I agree people choose what they do in life but understand that that a POSSIBLE worse case scenario of smoking pot (I certainly don't mean it happens to everyone because I know people who do it and function very well) can be a slippery slope into drugs. I've seen on this thread people say "who cares what drugs people do as long as it doesn't affect me". To think that people who do drugs won't affect any of us is not realistic. They to a certain extent cannot control what they do. Incredibly good people can do incredibly bad thinks. I don't think the government understands what they are trading for some tax dollars. My 2 cents is that I don't think that's good for anyone. Just my opinion. Smoke whatever you want as long as you don't take my last cigar!! :wave:


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## FiveStar

Herf N Turf said:


> We tend to be very short-sighted in this country.
> 
> As a die hard constitutionalist, whether or not I believe in the use of marijuana, heroin, whatever, is moot. The fact is that drug use and anything else an individual chooses to do with their own body is protected by the Constitution. The Harrison Act, which was the beginning of all de-legalization of substances, was a well orchestrated and highly controversial action, which everyone knew was being used to side-step the constitution. Because of racism and media smoke and mirrors, the public was duped into turning a blind eye to this travesty.
> 
> Likewise, Nixon's "war on drugs" was nothing but a war on minorities and youth culture. It's cost us trillions of dollars, through ill-advised interdiction policies, destroyed an entire segment of the minority population, glutted our jails, prisons and judicial systems... and for what? The use of drugs has never been higher.


Preach brother preach! Whatever you want to smoke is fine by me, as long as you're not hurting anyone. In my experience, the mind altering substances that are either legal or prescribed are just as harmful if not more in many cases than those that come with jail time. And the history of prohibition of substances has invariably been backed by thinly veiled racial discrimination and absolute sensationalism.

You'll never find me mainlining coke, or freebasing a few shards of meth, but if someone else enjoys using and/or abusing the substance, who am I to make that decision for them? And moreover, who is Uncle Sam to throw them in jail?

Bottom line, I'll pull the lever for anyone willing to stand up for individual freedom.

:hippie:


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## zeavran1

FiveStar said:


> Bottom line, I'll pull the lever for anyone willing to stand up for individual freedom.
> 
> :hippie:


I like that idea but I just can't escape the feeling that the same people who defend my "freedom" are the same people who are slowly trying to deny my right to put the quality smoke of a beautifully rolled, premium hand rolled cigar into my body. I hope I'm wrong.


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## Team Fuente

Stogie said:


> I find it interesting that in some states like California it is easier to get a presciption to buy and smoke marijuana then it is to find a legal place to smoke cigars. I have never smoke marijuana but I would think that the effects of cigars is way less then the effects of marijuana yet the law makers come down harder on us? Make sense to you?


comparing cigars too weed? cigars have never sent me into a giggle fit. accept that one time I bought a box of anjeos,or picking up my first pair of davidoff scissors,or.....(man I wish I was burnin a stick now.Wait I am, Im going to jack in the box for tacos)izza:izza:izza:izza: serious moment though cigars dont give me the munchies:smokin:


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## seegarfan

Cigary said:


> There are so many realities to this...regardless if you're an advocate or not. Just the unbelievable amount of money that is spent because of this...if it were legalized the State makes a ton of money. The judicial system is relieved in the prosecution of those who sell, grow and buy and this is an amazing amount of money we're talking about. Legalizing this would pretty much take care of that element of society that uses this as a means to threaten or kill others over warefare in this industry. I don't condone the legalizing of it except for medicinal use...if people want to use it for recreational use that is their business just like alcohol and as long as they aren't driving under the influence where it affects others then that is something they can deal with. What people do is their own business as long as it does not interfere with my life.


My thoughts exactly. From someone who is now considered totally disabled and unable to work due to 2 unsuccessful back surgeries and had a third to install an electronic device in my back with internal wires running up and down my spine to help control my back, hip and leg pain and has been on just about every hard narcotic pain reliever.........I would be willing to try it if it ever becomes legal in my state.

The current medication I'm on would cost me $739.00 a month for 90 pills. Fortunately with insurance my cost is only $125.00 - but look how much this cost the insurance company.......are there cheaper meds - yeah but they don't work as good for me.

I have not smoked weed in a long time - many years. But having suffered with the pain I have had these last 4 years.....if it would help.....I would not have a problem with it. Unless you have had the type of neuropathic pain that I and a lot of people suffer from - you really don't know what you would be willing to try for relief. I'm opened minded enough to say let those that suffer and their doctors make that decision if it is a viable treatment for their condition.

Thanks Mark


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## PunchMan6

Cigary said:


> It's the politics of tobacco...marijuana at some point is going to be legal and controlled by gov't because of the revenue it will produce and it will be a tax driven commodity. Cigars do not provide the gov't enough revenue and in these economic times "weed" is something that even the gov't is going to get involved in just like in prohibition times...once it was legalized the revenue it generated from taxes was enough to keep it going and still going strong. Most prescription medications are not good for us but it gives the Gov't enough money that they allow it. Compare the history of marijuana over the last 100 years of use and some of the medications over the last 10 years and see which ones are worse. Money...revenue...that is what drives business and Gov't..always has and always will. What's good for the public is secondary.


 Agreed 100%...and please let me add that if u think these people who get medicinal mj from dispensaries have it "easy", let me tell you that they are under constant scrutiny by the govt, local and federal, and by no means have it easy!!! Some day the govt will realize that legalizing medicinal marijuana will solve a huge part of this countries monetary problems, along with hemp!!!

Rant over!!!!


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## Cigary

zeavran1 said:


> Just giving you the facts as I know them. My friends and some family who have had problems with heavy drugs started with pot. They didn't do cough syrup, they didn't sniff aerosol cans or anything like that. The fact is they smoked pot FIRST. I agree people choose what they do in life but understand that that a POSSIBLE worse case scenario of smoking pot (I certainly don't mean it happens to everyone because I know people who do it and function very well) can be a slippery slope into drugs. I've seen on this thread people say "who cares what drugs people do as long as it doesn't affect me". To think that people who do drugs won't affect any of us is not realistic. They to a certain extent cannot control what they do. Incredibly good people can do incredibly bad thinks. I don't think the government understands what they are trading for some tax dollars. My 2 cents is that I don't think that's good for anyone. Just my opinion. Smoke whatever you want as long as you don't take my last cigar!! :wave:


Ya know Rich,,,in a perfect world I'm right there with ya and unfortunately the real world comes with real dilemnas such as what we deal with. Alcoholism started with the first drink...no doubt about it. Stronger drug addiction probably started with weed...no doubt about that either. The question begs why does it start...where does the specific need for drugs come from? How much does it affect the general populace? It affects all of us in some way shape and form. The sociological ideology is that we all live in peace, have families and live within the framework of law that protects all of us. Here comes the disconnect...people make bad choices and their bad choices influence the rest of us and we're left to clean up a mess whereby unintelligent human beings are not able to think for themselves and left to their own devices will make a bad situation even more intolerable. What's the answer? Obviously we live in a world of laws and some are so ridiculous it defies imagination. Imagine having a law that sends people to prison to warehouse them and never does it rehabilitate them even though that is the goal. Everybody recognizes that prisons do nothing to rehab people and yet it becomes a training ground for more of them to go back into the world to be a "smarter" criminal. Our Gov't makes some extremely stupid laws that work backwards as to what the true intent was. Make drugs illegal and for the last 100 years what has been done? People are going to do what they want to do right up until the time the next generation is taught how to be a decent human beings and the element of criminal behavior is exorcised out of the minds of our children.

By making some drugs legal is not going to open the floodgates for more drug use unless parents do their job in training their children to be responsible people. In the meantime smart controls should be used and introduced into the mainstream to at least lessen the total out of control measures that aren't working. Legalizing that portion will take away the outrageous amount of money that is being used to fight what is a losing battle...the money that would be saved is the same money that could be used in training the next generation to live smarter, better educated with a better chance to survive and flourish. It's a tough thing to try and find answers that will work for society,,,I just know that what I have been seeing for the last 40 years in terms of what is being done just ain't workin...at all. Let's hope the next 40 years will change for the better with better ideas.

This has been a good discussion and everybody has been respectful in their posts and that...unlike a lot of forums is something to be proud of where members can talk about things on an intellectual level without reducing it to personal level.


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## Fibo

Stogie said:


> I find it interesting that in some states like California it is easier to get a presciption to buy and smoke marijuana then it is to find a legal place to smoke cigars. I have never smoke marijuana but I would think that the effects of cigars is way less then the effects of marijuana yet the law makers come down harder on us? Make sense to you?


Given today's politicians...It makes perfect sense.


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## PunchMan6

Alright Ive been followin this thread all day and alot of you make some very good points...HOWEVER...this is a topic near and dear to my heart for several reasons and I feel I have to say my peace on all this...First off, anyone who thinks that medical MJ patients have it easy they are sorely mistaken!!! They , by law, have the right to choose whatever medicine they want for their serious ailments, but if they choose MMJ to medicate and help themselves they are criminals, technically!!! WTF!! Makes no sense IMHO...MMJ is NOT a drug, it is a harmless flower that has been used for thousands of yrs to treat numerous ailments and for religious ceremonies and it has NEVER killed anyone!!!
Yes I smoke cigars, and I know they are harmful to my health, but that has never stopped me from doing anything in my life, as I choose to do...however, to say that MMJ is MORE harmful than cigars is a bit nearsighted...just my .02...MMJ, especially when taken internally or vaporized is completely harmless to the body and brain, and has been proven to help many patients with numerous life-threatening ailments...
Aside from MMJ, there is the whole issue of hemp and all of its various uses...hemp is completely harmless and contains no THC or Cannabinoids, and can be used for many things including fuel, clothing, health foods, oils, beauty products, etc...it is totally sustainable and actually helps heal the environment!!! WTH is wrong with our govt??? If they legalized HEMP, they would have a valuable multi-use commodity that could help fix the national debt crisis we are in right now and will continue to be in for years to come!!! I could go on for hours about this but Ive bored u guys enuf...when it comes down to it, medical MJ and hemp should and will be legalized soon enuf and then everyone will see what they should of done years ago!!!


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## Mr.Lordi

There is a book

Marijuana is SAFER: So why are we driving people to drink? Good book. Check it out.


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## Cigary

PunchMan6 said:


> Alright Ive been followin this thread all day and alot of you make some very good points...HOWEVER...this is a topic near and dear to my heart for several reasons and I feel I have to say my peace on all this...First off, anyone who thinks that medical MJ patients have it easy they are sorely mistaken!!! They , by law, have the right to choose whatever medicine they want for their serious ailments, but if they choose MMJ to medicate and help themselves they are criminals, technically!!! WTF!! Makes no sense IMHO...MMJ is NOT a drug, it is a harmless flower that has been used for thousands of yrs to treat numerous ailments and for religious ceremonies and it has NEVER killed anyone!!!
> Yes I smoke cigars, and I know they are harmful to my health, but that has never stopped me from doing anything in my life, as I choose to do...however, to say that MMJ is MORE harmful than cigars is a bit nearsighted...just my .02...MMJ, especially when taken internally or vaporized is completely harmless to the body and brain, and has been proven to help many patients with numerous life-threatening ailments...
> Aside from MMJ, there is the whole issue of hemp and all of its various uses...hemp is completely harmless and contains no THC or Cannabinoids, and can be used for many things including fuel, clothing, health foods, oils, beauty products, etc...it is totally sustainable and actually helps heal the environment!!! WTH is wrong with our govt??? If they legalized HEMP, they would have a valuable multi-use commodity that could help fix the national debt crisis we are in right now and will continue to be in for years to come!!! I could go on for hours about this but Ive bored u guys enuf...when it comes down to it, medical MJ and hemp should and will be legalized soon enuf and then everyone will see what they should of done years ago!!!


Good thoughts about the other side of the coin when it comes to those who suffer needlessly because anothers opinion of the legality of MMJ. Trust me when I say this...for those individuals who suffer from a chronic debilitating illness that hits a pain threshold of 10 more times in a week than others who live in a lifetime...where do these people go for pain management? To Doctors who pour tons of narcotics into their bodies where it causes more harm than good? Where it turns patients into addicts? Where some of the medications complicate their lives by giving them another illness on top of what they already suffer from? MMJ does lessen the severity of pain and gives patients back a portion of their lives that was tragically taken from them by illness or disease. For those who are lucky enough to live a life without pain and know nothing of what living with pain is like there but for the grace of God go yourselves. It is inconceivable to me how those who have never felt the crushing pain of illness/disease can deligate how another person should manage that kind of pain because of their own ignorance to that persons plight? I know personally those who suffer pain so great it would cause others to take their own lives if they were in the same condition and what brings it home even more consider a loved one who was in that kind of pain...would you really play the "legalistic card" and not give them something that would ease that pain?


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## PunchMan6

Cigary said:


> Good thoughts about the other side of the coin when it comes to those who suffer needlessly because anothers opinion of the legality of MMJ. Trust me when I say this...for those individuals who suffer from a chronic debilitating illness that hits a pain threshold of 10 more times in a week than others who live in a lifetime...where do these people go for pain management? To Doctors who pour tons of narcotics into their bodies where it causes more harm than good? Where it turns patients into addicts? Where some of the medications complicate their lives by giving them another illness on top of what they already suffer from? MMJ does lessen the severity of pain and gives patients back a portion of their lives that was tragically taken from them by illness or disease. For those who are lucky enough to live a life without pain and know nothing of what living with pain is like there but for the grace of God go yourselves. It is inconceivable to me how those who have never felt the crushing pain of illness/disease can deligate how another person should manage that kind of pain because of their own ignorance to that persons plight? I know personally those who suffer pain so great it would cause others to take their own lives if they were in the same condition and what brings it home even more consider a loved one who was in that kind of pain...would you really play the "legalistic card" and not give them something that would ease that pain?


more great points Gary...well said bro, seems we scared some people away from this thread!!!


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## seegarfan

Cigary said:


> Good thoughts about the other side of the coin when it comes to those who suffer needlessly because anothers opinion of the legality of MMJ. Trust me when I say this...for those individuals who suffer from a chronic debilitating illness that hits a pain threshold of 10 more times in a week than others who live in a lifetime...where do these people go for pain management? To Doctors who pour tons of narcotics into their bodies where it causes more harm than good? Where it turns patients into addicts? Where some of the medications complicate their lives by giving them another illness on top of what they already suffer from? MMJ does lessen the severity of pain and gives patients back a portion of their lives that was tragically taken from them by illness or disease. For those who are lucky enough to live a life without pain and know nothing of what living with pain is like there but for the grace of God go yourselves. It is inconceivable to me how those who have never felt the crushing pain of illness/disease can deligate how another person should manage that kind of pain because of their own ignorance to that persons plight? I know personally those who suffer pain so great it would cause others to take their own lives if they were in the same condition and what brings it home even more consider a loved one who was in that kind of pain...would you really play the "legalistic card" and not give them something that would ease that pain?


Great comments from both David and Gary.


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## TonyBrooklyn

I guess Marijuana should be legal but it does pose risks. I have a dear friend who lives in Boca Raton Florida. She has been a marijuana user since we were in High School. She has been diagnosed with chronic lung disease. It is progressing rapidly. Sadly she will most likely die of it in a couple of years.:bawling:


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## Mr.Lordi

TonyBrooklyn said:


> I guess Marijuana should be legal but it does pose risks. I have a dear friend who lives in Boca Raton Florida. She has been a marijuana user since we were in High School. She has been diagnosed with chronic lung disease. It is progressing rapidly. Sadly she will most likely die of it in a couple of years.:bawling:


Was pot her only smoke of choice? A lot of pot users tend to also be cigarette smokers, and this is were conclusive data on pot gets muddy, because they can't show conclusive results that Marijuana alone doesn't cause cancer or anything, because they tend to use other substances.


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## Cigary

Something to consider is Marinol which is a synthetic form of Delta-9-THC...for those who don't want to smoke cannabis Marinol is legal in all 50 states by prescription. While it does take longer for this to enter into your system it stays longer once you take the medication.

Here is a link for more info: Marinol vs Marijuana - Marijuana and Marinol


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## Breakaway500

I would like to see pot decriminalized.Let them tax it..set down some age guidelines about purchase and use,just like booze and tobacco. I've smoked pot since 16ish...on and off...never as a daily thing.I've gone for years without smoking pot at times in my life.(I'm over 50..) Used with respect,it is harmless. Abused,and it can be harmful both physically and mentally,just like any substance.I have personally seen both sides of the fence as to its efects on peoples lives. It can be abused.
I occasionally still smoke pot as it relaxes me better than any other substance I have ever used,with minimal side effects. If I am in a real nasty mood....it allows me to let thing go..to realize how silly life can become at times. 
I've never smoked cigarettes.Never. They make physically sick.Even the smell of them. That is a sure indication, to me, I should not be smoking them.However,I firmly believe people should be allowed to make their own decision about their use.
The biggest hurdle I see in having pot legalized in the USA,are the people in authority who still believe pot will take control of a person,and destroy their lives,and every one around them. Instead,they have decided,based their own fears,with NO evidence to support these beliefs, to control it's use by making it illegal. 
How simple minded and self serving is that?!


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