# flavors



## Bshambo (Jun 20, 2013)

Still very new to Habano's as I have only smoked a handful of different sticks. To me they are very enjoyable but seem to lack a lot of different flavor profile compared to nc's. I am actually starting to enjoy them more and more but the twang is the most discernible flavor as they all seem to have it. Some are just better than others and I'm not sure why because twang is all I really get. So far the hdm epicure 2 and the rass are my favorites. To me they are outstanding. is it just me?


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## [email protected] (Aug 16, 2012)

Is it just you that they are outstanding, no......some if not most enjoy those mild smokes. 

Is it just you who thinks Cubans lack diff flavor profiles, YES.

someone with more knowledge can elaborate but if I want strong I grab boli and party
If I want mild I grab h upmann or ramon

Flavors vary from honey and cashews with mild sticks or spice and leather with others. 
The only constant with all habanos I have found is the twang slight barnyard smell of most and quality of stick time after time.


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## Bshambo (Jun 20, 2013)

[email protected] said:


> Is it just you that they are outstanding, no......some if not most enjoy those mild smokes.
> 
> Is it just you who thinks Cubans lack diff flavor profiles, YES.
> 
> ...


Sounds about right Ian. The only thing i have found so far is the boli jc's I bought , many are plugged. The ones that aren't are delicious though.


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## Bshambo (Jun 20, 2013)

funny thing is I enjoy strong nc's but the cc's you named as milder i like better than the partys and boli. those are 4 of the 5 i have had though.


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## egoo33 (Jul 21, 2013)

like everything time and patience and you'll be able to pick apart flavors also retrohale that will help a lot


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## Bshambo (Jun 20, 2013)

egoo33 said:


> like everything time and patience and you'll be able to pick apart flavors also retrohale that will help a lot


yes sir. I do retro, thats why I pick up flavors from nc's. I think your right though , it's a different animal. almost an acquired taste. Although I loved them off the bat.


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## egoo33 (Jul 21, 2013)

Bshambo said:


> yes sir. I do retro, thats why I pick up flavors from nc's. I think your right though , it's a different animal. almost an acquired taste. Although I loved them off the bat.


thats one of the reason im a covert have yet to have one i didnt like just liked some more than others as far as twang try out a Trinidad ive found twang aplenty. granted my sample size is smaller than most but damn twangy


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## pmr1010 (Jul 13, 2013)

I wouldn't call either the HdM Epi2 or RASS milder, they're two of my go to cigars. Some very nice flavors and personally I would say they're medium-full. After a while they settle down but not too quickly.

Bshambo, give it time and take your time smoking them, enjoy the experience. Some Habanos are truly much better than others, just like some maduros are better than others. You're on the tight track with the two you mentioned, try Partagas Shorts or Series D No. 4. You'll notice a difference in flavors as you smoke more.


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## pmr1010 (Jul 13, 2013)

I second Trinidad, good stuff


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## asmartbull (Aug 16, 2009)

I am not sure what rh you are storing you Habanos at, but I find that 60 will help flavors be more discernable. .....and don't confuse power for flavor, as most Habanos will compete in the power game....


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## TonyBrooklyn (Jan 28, 2010)

Bshambo said:


> Still very new to Habano's as I have only smoked a handful of different sticks. To me they are very enjoyable but seem to lack a lot of different flavor profile compared to nc's. I am actually starting to enjoy them more and more but the twang is the most discernible flavor as they all seem to have it. Some are just better than others and I'm not sure why because twang is all I really get. So far the hdm epicure 2 and the rass are my favorites. To me they are outstanding. is it just me?


Taste is very subjective.
Habanos provide a huge range of flavors not available in Non Cubans.
If you don't taste it in them consider yourself lucky.
For it is a very slippery slope my friend.


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## egoo33 (Jul 21, 2013)

find a marca you like and try different sizes and see what clicks, i found that i enjoy a JL 2 more than the PC, the flavors were easier to pick up for me and had more of that twang that i was looking for


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## six10 (May 23, 2013)

Saw this somewhere and thought you might find it interesting: 

Flavors
*Bolivar - Rich taste, tangy flavors & strong toasted tobacco flavor.
*Cohiba - Pleasant, grassy taste with strong bean flavors; vanilla, cocoa &
coffee.
*Cuaba - Aggressive tobacco flavor, herbs, woodiness, grassy bluntness.
*Flor de Juan Lopez - Pleasant, moderate - strong tobacco taste with a
woody flavor & aftertaste.
*Fonseca - Aromatic, herbal flavors with a mild sugary sweetness and a hint
of vanilla, honey and saltiness.
*Hoyo de Monterrey - Soft, sweet flavors, creamy, mild & aromatic with some
woodiness and hints of orange peel.
*H. Upmann - Suave taste, with a heavy bean flavors and hints of caramel &
coffee.
*La Gloria Cubana - Pleasant aroma with flavors of cedar, caramel & citric
zest.
*Montecristo - Rich, traditional toasted tobacco flavor, with a roasted nut
undertones.
*Partagas - Heavy, earthy flavor, with hints of leather & black pepper.
*Punch - Spicy with pleasant woody flavors and hints of peppers, black and
white
*Quai d' Orsay - a grassy quality mild toasted tobacco with a faint sugary
sweetness
*Ramon Allones - toasted tobacco flavor, with some fruitiness, especially
dark berries
*Rey del Mundo - Mild, sweet taste, with honey, coffee & vanilla
compliments, a very unique and pleasant aroma.
*Romeo y Julieta - Very complex with changing flavors; oak, nutty, floral &
often tangy.
*San Cristobal de la Habana - Tastes of Wood, honey and hints of white
pepper
*San Luis Rey - Nutty, bean flavors with some hint of saltiness.
*Sancho Panza - Subtle grassy flavor, a strong saltiness & some woody
sweetness.
*Trinidad - Pleasant mild tobacco taste with strong bean flavors; vanilla,
cocoa and coffee with a honey after-taste.
*Vegas Robaina - Smooth tobacco taste, leather with subtle pepper and
herbal qualities.
*Vegueros - Mildly herbaceous taste with hints of mintiness


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## dvickery (Jan 1, 2000)

sporky

patience ... true complexity and true strength come only with time .

my '92 upmanns taste hauntingly like black olives .

my '98 bolivar coronas taste like oranges ... weird .

my '03 bolivar coronas juniors are spicy spicy spicy ... taste like spleef ... really good spleef that came on a stick back in the 70's .

derrek


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## pmr1010 (Jul 13, 2013)

Tied Stick, you know. That shit that's tied to a stick man...



Right up there with Labrador.


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## egoo33 (Jul 21, 2013)

pmr1010 said:


> Tied Stick, you know. That shit that's tied to a stick man...
> 
> Right up there with Labrador.


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## tnlawyer (Jul 17, 2013)

My main complaint with CC is QC or the lack thereof. If I smoke 100 Padrons, 99 of them will be on point. If I smoke 100 Bolivars, maybe 70 of them will. I like what CCs offer, just wish they were more consistent. QC is seriously lacking IMHO.


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## streetz166 (May 20, 2014)

tnlawyer said:


> My main complaint with CC is QC or the lack thereof. If I smoke 100 Padrons, 99 of them will be on point. If I smoke 100 Bolivars, maybe 70 of them will. I like what CCs offer, just wish they were more consistent. QC is seriously lacking IMHO.


I'd have to agree with this.


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## TonyBrooklyn (Jan 28, 2010)

To add to the flavor discussion.
I am smoking a Cohiba Espy that is blowing me away with flavor and complexity.
I have had many a Cuban Cigar that has blown my socks off like this one.
Sadly i cannot say the same for non Cubans.
Not even just one time has a non Cuban blown me away.


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## tnlawyer (Jul 17, 2013)

TonyBrooklyn said:


> To add to the flavor discussion.
> I am smoking a Cohiba Espy that is blowing me away with flavor and complexity.
> I have had many a Cuban Cigar that has blown my socks off like this one.
> Sadly i cannot say the same for non Cubans.
> *Not even just one time has a non Cuban blown me away.*


I don't want to butt heads with the king of FOGs, but this statement is just wacky to me. I say that with all due respect. I like CCs but will probably never become one of the "I only smoke CC" guys. Too many great NC cigars out there.


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## Bshambo (Jun 20, 2013)

tnlawyer said:


> My main complaint with CC is QC or the lack thereof. If I smoke 100 Padrons, 99 of them will be on point. If I smoke 100 Bolivars, maybe 70 of them will. I like what CCs offer, just wish they were more consistent. QC is seriously lacking IMHO.


I bought a box of boli jc's and half it seems are plugged.


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## tnlawyer (Jul 17, 2013)

Bshambo said:


> I bought a box of boli jc's and half it seems are plugged.


You have to do extra shit like drop the RH to less than 60 to make up for the poor QC. Habanos SA needs to get out from under govt control.


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## Bshambo (Jun 20, 2013)

TonyBrooklyn said:


> Taste is very subjective.
> Habanos provide a huge range of flavors not available in Non Cubans.
> If you don't taste it in them consider yourself lucky.
> For it is a very slippery slope my friend.


Don't get me wrong Tony. I do really enjoy them. They just seem to all taste very similar because of the twang being most prominent to me. Most of the sticks I have smoked or around a year old or less so maybe time will change them?


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## Bshambo (Jun 20, 2013)

I'm at 62% now. I'll drop it lower.


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## Bshambo (Jun 20, 2013)

tnlawyer said:


> You have to do extra shit like drop the RH to less than 60 to make up for the poor QC. Habanos SA needs to get out from under govt control.


What are you using for humidity? I'm assuming kl? Bovedas only go down to 62%


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## tnlawyer (Jul 17, 2013)

Bshambo said:


> What are you using for humidity? I'm assuming kl? Bovedas only go down to 62%


I use KL in my cuban humidor and HF beads in my other humidors and in my cooler.


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## dvickery (Jan 1, 2000)

tnlawyer i completely disagree with your qc comment .

i will re-iterate ... time time time ... i have not had a totally plugged cigar that has spent 3 years in my humi at 62% for years and years .

it is NOT quality control that is lacking ... it is a lack of understanding .

the very nature of cuban cigars means that they are a different animal than non cuban cigars .
yes you will/do get cuban cigars that are good to smoke "right off the truck" these days ... but with the "right off the truck" mentality/practice comes a pretty high percentage of poor performances albiet the smokable ones are good .

to those who refuse to rest/age cigars for (at least) 3 years ... you get what you deserve ..you will get (maybe)30 out of every 100 that perform/smoke like sh!t .

it has nothing to do with quality control (better now than any time in the last 20 years) and it has every thing to do with the smoker .

to those fairly new to cuban cigars ... patience ... experience ... cant buy patience or experience with anything but time .

sorry for being crabby
derrek


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## tnlawyer (Jul 17, 2013)

dvickery said:


> tnlawyer i completely disagree with your qc comment .
> 
> i will re-iterate ... time time time ... i have not had a totally plugged cigar that has spent 3 years in my humi at 62% for years and years .
> 
> ...


So why is it that the NC companies have figured out how to make cigars that don't have to sit for 36+ months? Why are they "a different animal"? I still say it's QC, and I'm not sorry for being crabby. :biggrin:


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## dvickery (Jan 1, 2000)

tnlawyer said:


> So why is it that the NC companies have figured out how to make cigars that don't have to sit for 36+ months? Why are they "a different animal"? I still say it's QC, and I'm not sorry for being crabby. :biggrin:


So why is it that the NC companies have figured out how to make cigars that don't have to sit for 36+ months? ... i have no idea .

Why are they "a different animal"? i dont know i just accept that they are not non cuban cigars .

cant accept that cuban cigars are different and dont like your 70% performance ... the answer is non cubans .

dont got patience and dont like your 70% performance ... the answer is non cubans .

believe it or dont believe i dont care ... it is the simple truth .

derrek


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## tnlawyer (Jul 17, 2013)

dvickery said:


> So why is it that the NC companies have figured out how to make cigars that don't have to sit for 36+ months? ... i have no idea .
> 
> Why are they "a different animal"? i dont know i just accept that they are not non cuban cigars .
> 
> ...


You accept the QC issues. As do I. I just know they exist and that it's something I have to put up with if I want to smoke CC.


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## TonyBrooklyn (Jan 28, 2010)

tnlawyer said:


> I don't want to butt heads with the king of FOGs, but this statement is just wacky to me. I say that with all due respect. I like CCs but will probably never become one of the "I only smoke CC" guys. Too many great NC cigars out there.


Hey bro no offense taken smoke what you like last time i checked America was a free country.


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## TonyBrooklyn (Jan 28, 2010)

tnlawyer said:


> So why is it that the NC companies have figured out how to make cigars that don't have to sit for 36+ months? Why are they "a different animal"? I still say it's QC, and I'm not sorry for being crabby. :biggrin:


Jeez i dunno how come fine wines , Bourbons, cheese, etc is aged as well.
Must be poor Qc using your mentality.


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## HIM (Sep 12, 2012)

tnlawyer said:


> So why is it that the NC companies have figured out how to make cigars that don't have to sit for 36+ months? Why are they "a different animal"? I still say it's QC, and I'm not sorry for being crabby. :biggrin:


Keep in mind most NCs are rolled with leaf thats already been aged. CCs are more of a vintage of that years harvest, like wine. Its not really fair to compare a beautifully aged wine to one that was just bottled. This is a lot of the reason why its such a "different animal" IMO. Once the tobacco has had a few years to age the cigars really start to turn it on. But before then the leaf just isn't there yet and the flavors tend to be muddled or unbalanced. Theres ways around dealing with this like buying aged stock but in many cases its going to be more expensive than aging current production yourself.


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## TonyBrooklyn (Jan 28, 2010)

HIM said:


> Keep in mind most NCs are rolled with leaf thats already been aged. CCs are more of a vintage of that years harvest, like wine. Its not really fair to compare a beautifully aged wine to one that was just bottled. This is a lot of the reason why its such a "different animal" IMO. Once the tobacco has had a few years to age the cigars really start to turn it on. But before then the leaf just isn't there yet and the flavors tend to be muddled or unbalanced. Theres ways around dealing with this like buying aged stock but in many cases its going to be more expensive than aging current production yourself.


_BINGO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

GIVE that man a SEEGAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!_


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## TonyBrooklyn (Jan 28, 2010)

Bshambo said:


> Don't get me wrong Tony. I do really enjoy them. They just seem to all taste very similar because of the twang being most prominent to me. Most of the sticks I have smoked or around a year old or less so maybe time will change them?


_Yes my friend!
Time will pay big dividends.
Unlike anything you have experienced.
Trust me on this time is you friend!_


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## tnlawyer (Jul 17, 2013)

HIM said:


> Keep in mind most NCs are rolled with leaf thats already been aged. CCs are more of a vintage of that years harvest, like wine. Its not really fair to compare a beautifully aged wine to one that was just bottled. This is a lot of the reason why its such a "different animal" IMO. Once the tobacco has had a few years to age the cigars really start to turn it on. But before then the leaf just isn't there yet and the flavors tend to be muddled or unbalanced. Theres ways around dealing with this like buying aged stock but in many cases its going to be more expensive than aging current production yourself.


The flavor thing I completely understand and agree with. What I'm talking about is the draw, the burn, etc. To me, these are construction/QC issues. I shouldn't have to wait years for those issues to be corrected.


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## HIM (Sep 12, 2012)

tnlawyer said:


> The flavor thing I completely understand and agree with. What I'm talking about is the draw, the burn, etc. To me, these are construction/QC issues. I shouldn't have to wait years for those issues to be corrected.


Personally IME I can't say its taken my cigars years to have a good draw and burn. Usually they're smoking fine for me after a couple months. I do believe they smoke a lot better at a lower RH than you'd typically store NCs though and keep mine at 58-60.


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## Rock31 (Sep 30, 2010)

tnlawyer said:


> The flavor thing I completely understand and agree with. What I'm talking about is the draw, the burn, etc. To me, these are construction/QC issues. I shouldn't have to wait years for those issues to be corrected.


What RH are you storing them at? I dropped all my CCs to between 56 and 59.

If you are in the 65 range, drop em or dry box and I think you will be pleasantly surprised.


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## tnlawyer (Jul 17, 2013)

HIM said:


> Personally IME I can't say its taken my cigars years to have a good draw and burn. Usually they're smoking fine for me after a couple months. I do believe they smoke a lot better at a lower RH than you'd typically store NCs though and keep mine at 58-60.


Agree that a few months is reasonable to get them acclimated, but my contention is that even after that amount of time, there is still a much higher rate of tight draw, wonky burn, etc than what you see with NC. Some of the fellas on here are saying that can only be cured with years of storage, and I think that is unreasonable. I keep them right at or slightly under 60. It's better, but the error rate is still high IMO.

I'm not trying to shit on CC...I enjoy them along with my NC. I just think there is room for improvement in the QC area. Maybe it's a function of the government controlling the operation.


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## concig (Mar 25, 2013)

tnlawyer said:


> I just think there is room for improvement in the QC area.


I will agree but also say that from my experience, QC has been improved over the last 1-2 years, maybe more. You can tell this by comparing younger cc's to vintage ones.Problems,especially too tight draw is much more frequent with the vintage ones.Also, quite young cc's of just 1-2 years can smoke very well.
Notable examples from my experience, partagas aristocrats,monte no.4 and others.


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