# Fake Monte #2s?



## PJD (Aug 15, 2009)

Hi all,
Well, this afternoon's joy was relatively short-lived when I opened the yellow plastic package and unwrapped what was supposedly a box of genuine Monte #2s from a reportedly-reliable vendor.

What first tweaked my attention was the Habanos seal was not intact. 









Secondly, there were two Cuba warranty seals, an older one that had been cut and a newer-style with hologram over top. 









One the newer seal the middle of the coat-of-arms did NOT pass through the corner of the box, and when I ran the sticker code through the Habanos website it said they were counterfeit. Just like the boy who dropped his toothpaste, I was Crestfallen.

As I opened the package up I noticed the wrappers on a few sticks were flaking a bit,









and the cigar's wrappers and bands were both darker than on a 3-pack of Monte-2s I'd bought from the same vendor back in Sept. (3 on the left are the old ones, three on the right are from this box of 25)


















(the 3 with lighter bands were the older ones)

I know that for some of y'all here on puff the cost of a box of Monte 2s is relatively trivial. For me it's not, and I'm wondering if I may have some recourse or am I stuck with these now that the box is opened?

I've documented the whole process in the attached photos. Hey, I'm hoping I'm wrong here, but my spidey-sense is definitely tingling. Did I just get 25 stick-shaped lumps of coal in my stocking?



















Here's the whole album for anybody interested:
Pictures by pjd61 - Photobucket


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## Herf N Turf (Dec 31, 2008)

I think you can take the "reliable" out of that sources title. Frankly none of those look right to me. Perhaps Ive just been lucky, but I've never seen sloppy caps like that on Monte 2. The bands all look funky to me, but it could be the light.


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## Habanolover (Feb 22, 2006)

The Habanos sticker and the seal are not much of a concern. The sticker was probably cut because the vendor opened the box to inspect them before shipping. During the transition from the old warranty seal to the new one it is not uncommon for a box to have both seals on it. The only thing that looks worrisome to me is the noticeable difference in the color of the bands but you need to keep in mind that this is Cuba you are talking about and it is entirely possible.

Also I agree with Don about the caps. They look terrible.


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## PJD (Aug 15, 2009)

That's a bit of good news, for sure. The vendor is supposedly very reputable according to someone whose word I absolutely trust on this site <G>.

I suppose I should give them the benefit of the doubt, but the "counterfeit" message from Habanos' Website is still unnerving to say the least. My plan was to let these rest until the summer before starting to enjoy them.


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## Speedie (Nov 24, 2009)

Hmmm. I'm no expert, but if I got those I'd think they were fake.


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## Habanolover (Feb 22, 2006)

PJD said:


> That's a bit of good news, for sure. The vendor is supposedly very reputable according to someone whose word I absolutely trust on this site <G>.
> 
> I suppose I should give them the benefit of the doubt, but the "counterfeit" message from Habanos' Website is still unnerving to say the least. My plan was to let these rest until the summer before starting to enjoy them.


There have been reported glitches in the warranty verification site. If you want to you may PM me the name of the vendor and I will try to verify them for you.


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## Snake Hips (May 30, 2008)

The box details look fine to me, but those cigars look kind of bunk for sure. The bands do look too dark and the caps are terrible. But the Habanos website is far from accurate, and the Montecristo No. 2 is far from consistent on any basis - there have been some pretty gnarly-looking genuine No. 2s out of Cuba.

But that doesn't help you much - the only thing that's surefire is trust your vendor. If you want to PM me, I can give you my input on the vendor like madurolover; multiple opinions could help. If not, it's fine. But if you trust the vendor in the first place, I think the cigars are fine; just not the cream of the crop in looks perhaps.


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## tobacmon (May 17, 2007)

Like Big Poppa & SnakeHips I'd PM one or both. They will steer you in the right direction. As far as the smokes, let em rest a bit and give one a try to see what you taste buds tell you. If you PM members here that don't mind or go to the CC BST maybe you can get with someone that will help you in your endeavor...I hope everything works out!


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## harley33 (Mar 27, 2009)

Good luck, I know that someone here can help you out. One of the biggest things that has stopped me from ordering the Monte 2's is the inconsistency/quality issues you hear about coming out of their many factories. 

Hopefully they rest and turn into smoke you're looking for. Good luck.


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## 96Brigadier (Oct 20, 2009)

madurolover said:


> The Habanos sticker and the seal are not much of a concern. The sticker was probably cut because the vendor opened the box to inspect them before shipping. During the transition from the old warranty seal to the new one it is not uncommon for a box to have both seals on it.


Agreed, having just been to Cuba and bought 7 boxes of cigars from a state run LCDH I can tell you that every single one of the older boxes had both the new and old warranty seal on them, and several also had the Habanos sticker and seal cut. If I remember right it was only the Cohibas that didn't have both new and old sticker on them.


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## Joeluka (Nov 21, 2009)

I don't know where yours came from but I recently picked up 4 Monte #2 3packs and they all had the same darker label on them and flaky caps too.


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## PJD (Aug 15, 2009)

tobacmon said:


> Like Big Poppa & SnakeHips I'd PM one or both. They will steer you in the right direction. As far as the smokes, let em rest a bit and give one a try to see what you taste buds tell you. If you PM members here that don't mind or go to the CC BST maybe you can get with someone that will help you in your endeavor...I hope everything works out!


OK, I PMd with a few folks on here and the consensus is that I went with a very reputable vendor, so I guess I'll chalk this up to quality control issues at the factory and hope the draw/taste is good after they sit for a few months.

Just FYI, this was box code on these guys is *MUE-AGO09*.


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## PJD (Aug 15, 2009)

Joeluka said:


> I don't know where yours came from but I recently picked up 4 Monte #2 3packs and they all had the same darker label on them and flaky caps too.


I was in an independent tobacconists shop in Toronto a few weeks ago and their open box of Montecristo #2s on the shelf looked absolutely flawless. Nothing like the bad-boys I got yesterday. I guess that's what I was expecting. But at $460 a box up there....


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## Deemancpa (Nov 28, 2009)

PJD said:


> I was in an independent tobacconists shop in Toronto a few weeks ago and their open box of Montecristo #2s on the shelf looked absolutely flawless. Nothing like the bad-boys I got yesterday. I guess that's what I was expecting. But at $460 a box up there....


PJD Thanks for the post...I was a little worried.....Deeman


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## Deemancpa (Nov 28, 2009)

Let's saddle up and head North!!!!!!!!!!! You need a refund and blacklist that shop in here. Thoughts?


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## PJD (Aug 15, 2009)

Deemancpa said:


> Let's saddle up and head North!!!!!!!!!!! You need a refund and blacklist that shop in here. Thoughts?


I've heard privately from a few members here who say my source is above reproach, so I'll defer to their judgements, I suppose. I'll let 'em sit and mellow for a few months and see what they smoke like this summer. Still a little disappointing, though. Build quality was definitely NOT up to par, IMHO.


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## Snake Hips (May 30, 2008)

PJD said:


> I've heard privately from a few members here who say my source is above reproach, so I'll defer to their judgements, I suppose. I'll let 'em sit and mellow for a few months and see what they smoke like this summer. Still a little disappointing, though. Build quality was definitely NOT up to par, IMHO.


If the vendor is reputable, as it seems to be, you can contact them about your dissatisfaction with the cigars; any good vendor will have a satisfaction guarantee and take sub-par cigars back and replace them.


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## Rodeo (May 25, 2009)

Snake Hips said:


> If the vendor is reputable, as it seems to be, you can contact them about your dissatisfaction with the cigars; any good vendor will have a satisfaction guarantee and take sub-par cigars back and replace them.


Good advice, there.

I'd send them back and order something else. They may indeed smoke ok, but that's one ugly box of cigars.


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## Rodeo (May 25, 2009)

For comparison purposes:


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## McCleod (Apr 16, 2008)

madurolover said:


> There have been reported glitches in the warranty verification site. If you want to you may PM me the name of the vendor and I will try to verify them for you.


I just put in an XXXXX - XXXXXXX code series from a box of Partagas #4s delivered today (actually one of two boxes delivered today with consecutive numbers) -- I got the "You are a victim of fraud" message from the verification site. It is somewhat unnerving. The other stamp on the box is "STA SEP-09." They look good; still at office, have not smoked one.


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## Tarks (Mar 3, 2009)

Personally I think they are the real deal. The box, seals and bands look just fine. Monte has changed the bands from the older light brown simple bands to the newer darker brown embossed bands. The cigars look great as well with the exception of the few that have the wrappers coming loose. Cosmetic perfection is not a priority in Cuba, tobacco quality on the other hand is.

Enjoy your cigars and don't worry about the small imperfections.


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## Rodeo (May 25, 2009)

I'm assuming they are legit, his source was verified. But it's still a bad box. 

There's really only 3 indicators of quality before you fire it up. Color, construction and smell.

There is striking inconsistency in wrapper colors, based on the photos above. Strike one. Construction appears really bad. Strike Two. Aroma at cold?? We don't know, but they'd have to smell damm good for me to even think about keeping them.


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## tx_tuff (Jun 16, 2007)

My only question is did you ever talk to the vendor after you got the cigars? And if so what did they say? 

Thanks to all the CC smokers here looks like you have the real deal, enjoy!


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## Cadillac (Feb 28, 2007)

Tarks said:


> Personally I think they are the real deal. The box, seals and bands look just fine. Monte has changed the bands from the older light brown simple bands to the newer darker brown embossed bands. The cigars look great as well with the exception of the few that have the wrappers coming loose. Cosmetic perfection is not a priority in Cuba, tobacco quality on the other hand is.
> 
> Enjoy your cigars and don't worry about the small imperfections.


Couldn't have said it better myself. Smoking them will be the true test though.


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## PJD (Aug 15, 2009)

*REAL Monte #2s?*



Snake Hips said:


> If the vendor is reputable, as it seems to be, you can contact them about your dissatisfaction with the cigars; any good vendor will have a satisfaction guarantee and take sub-par cigars back and replace them.


OK guys,
I'm convinced that what I got are legit-but-darned-ugly sticks and that the vendor is reputable. I'm debating e-mailing them about the issue, but I think I'll let it slide and hope for the best. I don't mind ugly if they taste good. What I am afraid of is that if the appearance is poor because they were badly-rolled, how many of the suckers are going to be plugged. Only time will tell, I guess.

I looked at the bands from the older three versus those in the new box. Indeed, the new darker ones are ever-so-slightly embossed whereas the old ones were not. Also, of further note, one of the 3 older ones was a single gifted to me by a friend in Montreal from an LCDH. That one stick is, by far, the nicest of the three and has the lightest colored wrapper. I'd lit one up from the 3-pack back in September, so now it's 2 newer, one much older and 25 brand-new. I think I'll keep that single old one for a couple more years if I can hold out that long!


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## Stench (Aug 17, 2009)

I stumbled upon this while surfing after reading your thread and thought it was interesting....

Cigar Aficionado | Counterfeit Gallery | Montecristo

I'm totally ignorant about CC's, but do hope that this is just a messy legit batch....still smoke good!


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## McCleod (Apr 16, 2008)

I posted above about my serial numbers experience; did not receive any comments. Can anyone give me an idea of their experience with the verifying site? I saw the "glitches" comment. Do most of your cigars check out? Any? As I posted earlier, both of my 2009 boxes were called "frauds." I will check when I get home to see if I have other 2009 boxes (if that is the year that the verify site is supposed to work on) and check them out. The vendor I used is one of two that i know have a reputation for legitimacy. Regards, Butch.


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## Rodeo (May 25, 2009)

Butch, I haven't used the verification system. Given the glitches, it's probably safer to know and trust the source.

If you want, PM me and I'll let you know if I've used them. Steve


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## clampdown (Feb 7, 2006)

Smoke em.


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## SmokinApe (Jun 20, 2007)

Sending those back seems a little extreme to me...


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## SmokinApe (Jun 20, 2007)

Rodeo said:


> I'm assuming they are legit, his source was verified. But it's still a bad box.
> 
> There's really only 3 indicators of quality before you fire it up. Color, construction and smell.
> 
> There is striking inconsistency in wrapper colors, based on the photos above. Strike one. Construction appears really bad. Strike Two. Aroma at cold?? We don't know, but they'd have to smell damm good for me to even think about keeping them.


How are you determining the color is off? They look fine? Cigars from to different boxes in the one pick...

The construction is "really bad?" The heads do look a little banged up but that happens in shipping and they really don't look that bad, certainly not enough to deem overall construction really bad...


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## SmokinApe (Jun 20, 2007)

Deemancpa said:


> Let's saddle up and head North!!!!!!!!!!! You need a refund and blacklist that shop in here. Thoughts?


Really? Blacklist the shop?


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## PJD (Aug 15, 2009)

Well, there is another option - someone forward a few dozen boxen of Monte-2s for me to compare 'em against and perform a full taste analyses 

Seriously, though, I think I'll drop a note to the vendor after Christmas and express my concerns, but in all likelihood, I have to wonder if it's worth the effort to go through the exchange process. Most of the sticks were reasonably-good looking but there were a few real nasty ones thrown in as well. Two flaking-caps and a couple more with caps that didn't look all that great and one with a cracked wrapper.

My interest now turns to properly humidifying these sticks. It took 'em a week to arrive and at this time of year, they likely spent all that time with no humidification. No surprise then that once I set them in my humidor, the hygrometers fell like a rock and at present are stiting between 60 and 63% RH. I have four ounces of 70% Heartfelt beads and 1 ounce of 65% beads, all recently moistened thoroughly with distilled water. Am I correct in assuming the sticks and the air inside the humidor will slowly come up to around 70% after a while or should I be doing something more to bring them up faster? Do I risk further damage by keeping them below 70% for even longer than the week they were in-transit?


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## SmokinApe (Jun 20, 2007)

PJD said:


> Well, there is another option - someone forward a few dozen boxen of Monte-2s for me to compare 'em against and perform a full taste analyses
> 
> Seriously, though, I think I'll drop a note to the vendor after Christmas and express my concerns, but in all likelihood, I have to wonder if it's worth the effort to go through the exchange process. Most of the sticks were reasonably-good looking but there were a few real nasty ones thrown in as well. Two flaking-caps and a couple more with caps that didn't look all that great and one with a cracked wrapper.
> 
> My interest now turns to properly humidifying these sticks. It took 'em a week to arrive and at this time of year, they likely spent all that time with no humidification. No surprise then that once I set them in my humidor, the hygrometers fell like a rock and at present are stiting between 60 and 63% RH. I have four ounces of 70% Heartfelt beads and 1 ounce of 65% beads, all recently moistened thoroughly with distilled water. Am I correct in assuming the sticks and the air inside the humidor will slowly come up to around 70% after a while or should I be doing something more to bring them up faster? Do I risk further damage by keeping them below 70% for even longer than the week they were in-transit?


Your best bet, with this type of cigar, is to keep them between 60 - 65% They prolly came to you too wet to begin with...


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## PJD (Aug 15, 2009)

That low? wow. I figured 65-70. This humi is quickly becoming ISOM-only. Party D4s, Lucis a few assorted others that were acquired on trips north, etc (and two from a very very kind PUFFer, who I wish to thank yet again). Next Christmas I think I'm going to go with some Cohibas instead! Dying to try and compare the Genio Maduro and Siglo VI.


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## fuente~fuente (May 11, 2009)

I'm confident the source is legit, like many here. But... If your not 100% happy with them Peter, send them back brother.:nod: That's their policy. I'm sure the vendor has done it before, & will do it again in the future... I know your just trying not to be a hassle, but again.... "If your not 100% satisfied"... It's their policy..... Right???

IMO... Send them back, & get what *you paid* for.


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## SmokinApe (Jun 20, 2007)

fuente~fuente said:


> I'm confident the source is legit, like many here. But... If your not 100% happy with them Peter, send them back brother.:nod: That's their policy. I'm sure the vendor has done it before, & will do it again in the future... I know your just trying not to be a hassle, but again.... "If your not 100% satisfied"... It's their policy..... Right???
> 
> IMO... Send them back, & get what *you paid* for.


Folks need to make sure there expectations are realistic and inline with the average experience. To me, there is nothing wrong with that box and it's about what most of them look like... Reading this forum over the past few days it seems like some folks are "send them back" happy...

In the end that are your cigars and you can do what you want, I really don't care... I just suspect you'll be sending lots of boxes back...


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## clampdown (Feb 7, 2006)

PJD said:


> That low? wow. I figured 65-70. This humi is quickly becoming ISOM-only. Party D4s, Lucis a few assorted others that were acquired on trips north, etc (and two from a very very kind PUFFer, who I wish to thank yet again). Next Christmas I think I'm going to go with some Cohibas instead! Dying to try and compare the Genio Maduro and Siglo VI.


I keep my sticks around 60-65 and rarely if ever have draw problems or a plugged cigar. I used to keep them around 70 a few years ago and have been very happy with the change.


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## SmokinApe (Jun 20, 2007)

clampdown said:


> I keep my sticks around 60-65 and rarely if ever have draw problems or a plugged cigar. I used to keep them around 70 a few years ago and have been very happy with the change.


I actually try to keep mine @ 60% and no higher...


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## clampdown (Feb 7, 2006)

SmokinApe said:


> I actually try to keep mine @ 60% and no higher...


How do you find this low humidity compliments the ability to remove the band?


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## pitbulljimmy (Aug 1, 2009)

Ifind now that my CC humidor is sitting in the 63 - 66 % RH range, I have not had any tight draws or burn issues. Before when my Humi sat at 70%, draws were tight regularly.


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## SmokinApe (Jun 20, 2007)

pitbulljimmy said:


> Ifind now that my CC humidor is sitting in the 63 - 66 % RH range, I have not had any tight draws or burn issues. Before when my Humi sat at 70%, draws were tight regularly.


Well said, this is the point I was trying to make. Plus I find the flavor is richer...


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## fuente~fuente (May 11, 2009)

SmokinApe said:


> Folks need to make sure there expectations are realistic and inline with the average experience. To me, there is nothing wrong with that box and it's about what most of them look like... Reading this forum over the past few days it seems like some folks are "send them back" happy...
> 
> In the end that are your cigars and you can do what you want, I really don't care... *I just suspect you'll be sending lots of boxes back*...


Maybe just one???

I've never had to send anything back personally... I really don't consider myself a "send them back" happy person. And niether dose Peter, from what I can see in the tone of his posts.

Then again... I've never recieved anything that I deemed unfit to me.


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## SmokinApe (Jun 20, 2007)

clampdown said:


> How do you find this low humidity compliments the ability to remove the band?


I find it helps by allowing the glue to dry fully... I has reduced the amount of tears to the wrapper... If I do get a wrapper tear I just use some of my Cigar Glue...










http://www.cigarforums.net/forums/vb/want-sell-trade-wts/261897-wts-cigar-glue-pectin.html


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## Deemancpa (Nov 28, 2009)

SmokinApe said:


> Really? Blacklist the shop?


Friends,
There's an obivous disconnect here: if your Monte don't have the appearance as posted by Rodeo. Send them back or express your concerns with the vendor. All of my orders have been prestine upon arrival.

furthermore, there's problem; else you wouldn't have expressed it in the forum. why settle for second class dried out cigars.....truste me that don't appear like that just because of shipping....... Once I told a vendor that I wasn't happy with my order and they sent me another for free because they wanted my business and any recommendation to friends.

If the vendor doesn't work with you, then yes, put them on the no fly list! Strength in numbers my friends. Deeman has spoken!


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## SmokinApe (Jun 20, 2007)

fuente~fuente said:


> Maybe just one???
> 
> I've never had to send anything back personally... I really don't consider myself a "send them back" happy person. And niether dose Peter, from what I can see in the tone of his posts.
> 
> Then again... I've never recieved anything that I deemed unfit to me.


That is wonderful for you... Also, I didn't say you were "send them back" happy... I said some folks seem that way... And well, to me, you did put off that vibe... Sorry if I assumed, just trying to help...


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## clampdown (Feb 7, 2006)

Again, smoke one before sending them back. You never know what you might get. I have had some of the ugliest cigars smoke beautifully. Plus, Im not too concerned with poor construction of the part on the cigar that i cut. 

Ok, back to the issue at hand, Ape, do you have any flavored pectin?


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## SmokinApe (Jun 20, 2007)

Deemancpa said:


> Friends,
> There's an obivous disconnect here: if your Monte don't have the appearance as posted by Rodeo. Send them back or express your concerns with the vendor. All of my orders have been prestine upon arrival.
> 
> furthermore, there's problem; else you wouldn't have expressed it in the forum. why settle for second class dried out cigars.....truste me that don't appear like that just because of shipping....... Once I told a vendor that I wasn't happy with my order and they sent me another for free because they wanted my business and any recommendation to friends.
> ...


What is the "no fly list?"


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## SmokinApe (Jun 20, 2007)

clampdown said:


> Again, smoke one before sending them back. You never know what you might get. I have had some of the ugliest cigars smoke beautifully. Plus, Im not too concerned with poor construction of the part on the cigar that i cut.
> 
> Ok, back to the issue at hand, Ape, do you have any flavored pectin?


Not really. I have been toying with some in the lab and the bacon flavor seems the most promising, I'll make sure to keep everyone posted.


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## clampdown (Feb 7, 2006)

SmokinApe said:


> Not really. I have been toying with some in the lab and the bacon flavor seems the most promising, I'll make sure to keep everyone posted.


Ok, Ill ask the question everyone is wondering, is it Kosher?


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## SmokinApe (Jun 20, 2007)

clampdown said:


> Ok, Ill ask the question everyone is wondering, is it Kosher?


Not the bacon... I can't attest to the preparation methods of the flavoring I am using...


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## SmokinApe (Jun 20, 2007)

Deemancpa said:


> Friends,
> There's an obivous disconnect here: if your Monte don't have the appearance as posted by Rodeo. Send them back or express your concerns with the vendor. All of my orders have been prestine upon arrival.
> 
> furthermore, there's problem; else you wouldn't have expressed it in the forum. why settle for second class dried out cigars.....truste me that don't appear like that just because of shipping....... Once I told a vendor that I wasn't happy with my order and they sent me another for free because they wanted my business and any recommendation to friends.
> ...


Perhaps more detailed photographs are in order, that way a proper juxtaposition can be had...


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## fuente~fuente (May 11, 2009)

SmokinApe said:


> That is wonderful for you... Also, I didn't say you were "send them back" happy... I said some folks seem that way... And well, to me, you did put off that vibe... Sorry if I assumed, just trying to help...


I don't even send food back at a restaraunt, & sound like Mr. Rogers in the drive-through.:tongue1: But I guess my trying to help a BOTL in this thead, _filled with different advice & opinions, _could be seen as just that in my post. You gave yours, & I gave mine.

And we all know what happens when we assume...


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## SmokinApe (Jun 20, 2007)

fuente~fuente said:


> I don't even send food back at a restaraunt, & sound like Mr. Rogers in the drive-through.:tongue1: But I guess my trying to help a BOTL in this thead, _filled with different advice & opinions, _could be seen as just that in my post. You gave yours, & I gave mine.


Yes, and you sound like a wonderful and caring person...



fuente~fuente said:


> And we all know what happens when we assume...


Yes, we are often correct...


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## Cigary (Oct 19, 2007)

Anytime a consumer buys a product from a company and that company has a policy of "your satisfaction guaranteed" then it's up to the consumer who bought the product to decide for themselves as to what they expected. The theme of the post implies you are not satisfied even if they are real. This is a no brainer here and we can all give our opinions as to what we would do but it's not our money that was spent and what our satisfaction is compared to what the OP is going to be . If the goods are real and you still don't like em send them back and get a replacement. As long as you are happy with the product that is all that matters but if you are going to stick them in your humidor for a few months to "see" if they measure up later then you have taken yourself out of the "satisfaction" department. My expectations for cigars is pretty much what my experience with them tells me. Every Monte #2 I have bought were always in good shape and if it were my money I'd send em back yesterday and explain to the dealer my reasons for sending them back. I'm sure the dealer will make it right as this isn't the first time product has been sent back to them. To keep your business I can bet you he will send the next box of cigars in pristine condition,,,and if he didn't I'd find another dealer. my 2 cents


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## fuente~fuente (May 11, 2009)

SmokinApe said:


> Yes, and you sound like a wonderful and caring person...


Why thank you... I am!!!:thumb:



SmokingApe said:


> Yes, we are often correct...


Congrats.....:bl


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## SmokinApe (Jun 20, 2007)

The first complaint from the OP was that the Habanos label was broken. Another was the bands were not what he expected.

Did the OP ask to have the cigars inspected? If they were inspected the seal would have been broken... Don't you see the irony here?

In order to QA a box, all seals need to be broken. When seal are broken people run to the forums and ask if they got fakes

People who are newer say stuff like "send them back" and "black list the vendor" all because someone didn't know what to expect...

This is silly...



Cigary said:


> Anytime a consumer buys a product from a company and that company has a policy of "your satisfaction guaranteed" then it's up to the consumer who bought the product. This is a no brainer here and we can all give our opinions as to what we would do but it's not our money that was spent and what our satisfaction is compared to another is going to be different. If the goods are real and you still don't like em send them back and get a replacement. As long as you are happy with the product that is all that matters but if you are going to stick them in your humidor for a few months to "see" if they measure up later then you have taken yourself out of the "satisfaction" department. My expectations for cigars is pretty much what my experience with them tells me. Every Monte #2 I have bought were always in good shape and if it were my money I'd send up back yesterday and explain to the dealer my reasons for sending them back. I'm sure the dealer will make it right and this isn't the first time product has been sent back to them. To keep your business I can bet you he will send the next box of cigars in pristine condition,,,and if he didn't I'd find another dealer. my 2 cents


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## SmokinApe (Jun 20, 2007)

This thread has gone from and these fake? To a maybe, send them back in case. To a send them back due to the quality.

The OP said there was slight flaking...


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## Deemancpa (Nov 28, 2009)

I'll go back to the well said opinion.....Trust your vendor! Of course broken seals don't equate to fakes...obviously done for qc........there's a difference between a uniformed appearance in the box...and let me create a box of 25 for you with a hodge podge of mix and match cigars with no uniformity. 

Let your conscience be your guide.....don't settle becasue its to much trouble. deeman


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## clampdown (Feb 7, 2006)

Do we not forget that these are dried leaves rolled up and have traveled from Cuba to Europe/Canada then to the United States. You will run the risk of having a few bumps here an there. I have a friend that will send back cigars if he isn't satisfied and he has waited on the returns for several months. I would rather just notify the company of my displeasure, smoke the cigar and if it's worth keeping then I will keep it. I don't smoke the bands, so who cares if they are a little off. Remember, this a poor communist country, so you're going to run the risk of having some poor quality from time to time. 

I agree with Ape about the boxes. It's impossible to check the quality of the cigars unless they are opened and inspected. Unless they are some rare box that I want to save for some reason then I don't care if the box is opened. In fact, if this ensures that I won't be sold a box filled with cracked cigars and a product that looks inferior, why complain? I would hate to have a box of Monte 2's delivered to my house, unopened and then a few years down the road I open the box and not be satisfied with the cigars that I see.


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## SmokinApe (Jun 20, 2007)

Deemancpa said:


> I'll go back to the well said opinion.....Trust your vendor! Of course broken seals don't equate to fakes...obviously done for qc........there's a difference between a uniformed appearance in the box...and let me create a box of 25 for you with a hodge podge of mix and match cigars with no uniformity.
> 
> Let your conscience be your guide.....don't settle becasue its to much trouble. deeman


The cigars is question are all of a uniform appearance...


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## Cigary (Oct 19, 2007)

SmokinApe said:


> The first complaint from the OP was that the Habanos label was broken. Another was the bands were not what he expected.
> 
> Did the OP ask to have the cigars inspected? If they were inspected the seal would have been broken... Don't you see the irony here?
> 
> ...


It's not silly at all because it is the OP's money he spent on a product that he had and has expectation of. Your opinion has been splashed throughout the whole thread and we get it,,,trust me. You didn't start the thread and your opinion is taken just like the rest of us because,,,we have our opinion as well. I am not "new" and I have been buying cigars when you were probably still in diapers and everybody has their own expectations when buying any product,,,cigars, TV's, cars, etc. There is a reason a company has "Satisfaction Guaranteed" in their business regimen because everyone is different and has their own expectations.

You have stated what your opinion is and that is fine but allow others to voice theirs without condemnation just because their opinion differs from what you feel. If the OP wants to send em back, send em back for whatever reason he chooses as he spent the money, not you and not me. :focus:


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## SmokinApe (Jun 20, 2007)

What is silly is thinking they are fake, the pile on about them being fake and the call to blacklist a legit vendor... I already posted that he should send them back if he wasn't happy...



Cigary said:


> It's not silly at all because it is the OP's money he spent on a product that he had and has expectation of. Your opinion has been splashed throughout the whole thread and we get it,,,trust me. You didn't start the thread and your opinion is taken just like the rest of us because,,,we have our opinion as well. I am not "new" and I have been buying cigars when you were probably still in diapers and everybody has their own expectations when buying any product,,,cigars, TV's, cars, etc. There is a reason a company has "Satisfaction Guaranteed" in their business regimen because everyone is different and has their own expectations.
> 
> You have stated what your opinion is and that is fine but allow others to voice theirs without condemnation just because their opinion differs from what you feel. If the OP wants to send em back, send em back for whatever reason he chooses as he spent the money, not you and not me. :focus:


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## fuente~fuente (May 11, 2009)

SmokingApe said:


> This is silly...


And for how this thread is going... This thread has gone from trying to help someone, to poo flinging, because someone came in & decided to stir the pot & take pop shots at other peoples _opinions _in a forum, which is a place to share each others _opinions _together in a friendly manner........_most of the time anyway.:decision: _At least from what I've seen since I've been here on Puff.

But also... You have shared good advice.:nod: It's just the way you've went about carrying yourself in this thread that doesn't sit well with me.


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## Cigary (Oct 19, 2007)

SmokinApe said:


> What is silly is thinking they are fake, the pile on about them being fake and the call to blacklist a legit vendor... I already posted that he should send them back if he wasn't happy...


Duly noted and we're good here. The OP is master of his domain and will do what he wants to do with or without our consent and since he put it out there for people to give their opinions,,,we did our duty. I like Fuente~Fuente's remarks about this below and at the end of the day we should give our remarks and opinions in a non adversarial way.



fuente~fuente said:


> And for how this thread is going... This thread has gone from trying to help someone, to poo flinging, because someone came in & decided to stir the pot & take pop shots at other peoples _opinions _in a forum, which is a place to share each others _opinions _together in a friendly manner........_most of the time anyway.:decision: _At least from what I've seen since I've been here on Puff.
> 
> But also... You have shared good advice.:nod: It's just the way you've went about carrying yourself in this thread that doesn't sit well with me.


I agree with ya brother. Some keen advice and wisdom here.


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## SmokinApe (Jun 20, 2007)

I agree that we're here to help each other and give good advise... Sending them back and blacklisting the vendor isn't really good advise IMO... 

Cigary, do you see anything at all that would make you think these are fake? Also, in your opinion do you think the construction of these cigars is at a level that they should be sent back?

As far as fuente, he is one of the blacklist poo flingers... he should get out of the glass house before casting stones...


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## Deemancpa (Nov 28, 2009)

Friends 

My comments about blacklisting was in the form of a question. Surely, if you made a purchase you would want everyone to know not to buy and proceed with caution. 

We have opinions just like other things. Some you take a sound bite and run with it. My intent was to help a fellow smoker.... 

Deeman


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## SmokinApe (Jun 20, 2007)

Deemancpa said:


> If the vendor doesn't work with you, then yes, put them on the no fly list! Strength in numbers my friends. Deeman has spoken!


That's a little more then a question... but I am sure you meant well...


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## PJD (Aug 15, 2009)

SmokinApe said:


> The first complaint from the OP was that the Habanos label was broken. Another was the bands were not what he expected.
> 
> Did the OP ask to have the cigars inspected? If they were inspected the seal would have been broken... Don't you see the irony here?
> 
> ...


I never asked if the seals had been broken, nor did I ask for the cigars to be inspected, although on further review, maybe I should ask for that next time around. Honestly, though, opening a pristine box, cutting the seals myself, etc, is part of the enjoyment. "Popping its cherry" is the term I use  Seeing perfect presentation with my PSD4s in their wooden box was a sight to behold.

Now, to the issue at hand (to summarize), I'm convinced that beyond a doubt my source is reliable; I'm no longer concerned that they're fakes and I do not doubt the seller's good reputation (at least yet). Now, if they tell me to get lost or "too bad, that's how they are," well, I'll cross that bridge if/when I get there.

I will indeed contact the vendor on Monday expressing my concerns and attaching photos of both the earlier ones and the new ones and ask for their guidance. If _they_ suggest sending them all back for exchange, then no problem. I'd personally prefer to get a different factory code and maybe with a little age on them, but that may be asking too much. At the very least, I do want to return the ones with poor caps and especially that one with the cracked/flaky wrapper. At ~$10 a stick that's a problem for sure.


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## SmokinApe (Jun 20, 2007)

PJD said:


> I never asked if the seals had been broken, nor did I ask for the cigars to be inspected, although on further review, maybe I should ask for that next time around. Honestly, though, opening a pristine box, cutting the seals myself, etc, is part of the enjoyment. "Popping its cherry" is the term I use  Seeing perfect presentation with my PSD4s in their wooden box was a sight to behold.


I am not knocking you PJD, we all were in that exact spot at one time... What I am doing is telling you that you have a legit box of decent looking cigars... and that I hope you enjoy them and possibly post a review...


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## fuente~fuente (May 11, 2009)

SmokinApe said:


> As far as fuente, he is one of the blacklist poo flingers... he should get out of the glass house before casting stones...


No... I'm the "send back happy" guy...

It's obvious that we are going nowere with this, except for sending Peter's thread down the toilet.

Agree to disagree... Let's leave it at that.:nod:

If anything... This thread has given me a good enough reason to drink ALOT of Eggnog tonight!:lol:

Now... I've gotta go get ready for Christmas Eve.

Merry Christmas guys!!!:wave:


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## PJD (Aug 15, 2009)

SmokinApe said:


> I am not knocking you PJD, we all were in that exact spot at one time... What I am doing is telling you that you have a legit box of decent looking cigars... and that I hope you enjoy them and possibly post a review...


I edited my post after you posted. Thanks to all for your opinions. As this was my first full-box of ISOMs and my first box of Monte #-anythings, I wanted to ask everyone's opinions. The seals were my first concern, the different band colours were my second, different wrapper colours were my third and the flaky/cracked sticks my fourth. The first three issues were explained to my satisfaction and the fourth I will deal with in the coming week (and will post the results here).

Thanks to all for your extremely valuable opinions and knowledge and for putting this n00b's mind at ease. Cheers and Merry Christmas to one and all!


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## Cigary (Oct 19, 2007)

SmokinApe said:


> I agree that we're here to help each other and give good advise... Sending them back and blacklisting the vendor isn't really good advise IMO...
> 
> Cigary, do you see anything at all that would make you think these are fake? Also, in your opinion do you think the construction of these cigars is at a level that they should be sent back?
> 
> ...


*C'mon man, aren't you better than this during the Holidays? Step back and put the shovel down as all you're doing is diggin a hole you may not be able to fill in after you're done with this diatribe. Let's all relax, drink whatever it is that is your favorite and enjoy the Holiday. I am on my 3rd double shot Bloody Mary and feeling little or no pain.*


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## SmokinApe (Jun 20, 2007)

So you duck the question, classy... you obviously have an opinion...


I am not digging a hole, you are... And as far as how I spend my time, I am discussing cigars which happens to be a hobby of mine...

All I did was post an opinion and you attack me for it...


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## Habanolover (Feb 22, 2006)

All right guys, let's simmer down and spread some Christmas Cheer. 

The OP has been told that his source is legit. As far as retuning the smokes, that is his decision. If he were to ask me I would tell him to put them away and enjoy them when he is ready. Others may say they would return them. Neither is right or wrong, just opinions. As far as boycotting the vendor, I really see no point in even entertaining that idea. The vendor is someone who is respected in several communities and IMO is above reproach.

I think I am gonna fire up a Trini Robusto T and watch some football.

*Merry Christmas all!*


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## SmokinApe (Jun 20, 2007)

Nice post ML with some *solid *advise... A cigar sounds like a wonderful idea, happy holiday's to all....



madurolover said:


> All right guys, let's simmer down and spread some Christmas Cheer.
> 
> The OP has been told that his source is legit. As far as retuning the smokes, that is his decision. If he were to ask me I would tell him to put them away and enjoy them when he is ready. Others may say they would return them. Neither is right or wrong, just opinions. As far as boycotting the vendor, I really see no point in even entertaining that idea. The vendor is someone who is respected in several communities and IMO is above reproach.
> 
> ...


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## harley33 (Mar 27, 2009)

Merry Christmas All...



Happy Holidays-

Jeff


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## RJT (Feb 12, 2005)

I would send them back but that is my opinion, you do what you want. I find it hard to believe that Cuba sent these out with the mis-matched bands. I am thinking the vendor may have put some from another box into this one to make it a full box. Either way I would not accept these as is. I expect my Cubans to be pretty darn near perfect and expect my vendors to inspect them prior to shipping. I refuse to pay good money for Cubans that would look like that. PM ME THE vendor if you dont mind I am curious....


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## smelvis (Sep 7, 2009)

Well as long as opinions are now what we are saying, LOL

I know who the vendor was and know of several people who have used them for years, I use a similar vendor and they are the nicest people to speak too you could ask for!

I would smoke one, then decide, I would also email a photo and explain politely that you understand they are below their own standards and it would be in both your best interests time and hassle wise for you to keep them! But at the same time a discount or some kind of consideration from said vendor at their discretion would be acceptable in order to build upon an already stellar reputation. basically leave it up to them and see what happens.

I would do something like that! Companies are people so I would also wish them and theirs a very Happy Holiday and if you have a first name use it, My company rep is Jamie, I feel like we are friends! 

Good Luck Bro!

dave


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## RJT (Feb 12, 2005)

smelvis said:


> Well as long as opinions are now what we are saying, LOL
> 
> I know who the vendor was and know of several people who have used them for years, I use a similar vendor and they are the nicest people to speak too you could ask for!
> 
> ...


Sounds like a plan.......... :rockon:


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## Rodeo (May 25, 2009)

oops ... when I said I'd send them back I didn't realize we were looking at cigars from two (three?) different boxes. The color variation was troubling ... not so much anymore, now that I actually READ the OP 


Merry Christmas all!


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## tobacmon (May 17, 2007)

Some good points here -- that's what I enjoy about the forums, being able to post your "Opinion" is a vital part of the sites. Some take this personally and that is not what this site is about. If it were me I would do like Smelvis and go a step further and smoke one now to see if the cubanist taste and flavors are present. I think you have received some very good inputs and the decision is always what would make "You" happy. 
Some of the "Best" cigars I've had really looked ugly but from the reputation of the Monte CC I "myself" would have exspected more.

Just me thinking out loud here!


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## salmonfly (Nov 11, 2009)

In order to QA a box, all seals need to be broken. I alway ask the vendor to open my boxes and check that all is ok before shipping.


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## McCleod (Apr 16, 2008)

McCleod said:


> I posted above about my serial numbers experience; did not receive any comments. Can anyone give me an idea of their experience with the verifying site? I saw the "glitches" comment. Do most of your cigars check out? Any? As I posted earlier, both of my 2009 boxes were called "frauds." I will check when I get home to see if I have other 2009 boxes (if that is the year that the verify site is supposed to work on) and check them out. The vendor I used is one of two that i know have a reputation for legitimacy. Regards, Butch.


Boy, am I stupid! Apparently, you have to put the numbers in without spaces. When I did that (following the advice of Rodeo's good friend "Jamie," everything came up roses! The verification site pronounced my two boxes as perfectly legit. My apologies, Regards, Butch.


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## havanajohn (Apr 4, 2009)

I got a headache from reading all this vitrol...


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## PJD (Aug 15, 2009)

OK guys, here's my followup to the original situation.

Before writing a word to the vendor I wanted to spark one up and have a taste. Bearing in mind these were from a full box dated August 2009 and had just been transported a great distance in frigid/dry conditions I wasn't expecting much. I needn't have worried. Even though the stick wasn't as nice-looking as others it tasted wonderful - everything I remembered from this summer's MC2.

Once these settle down a tad I'm sure they'll be even better. I will still fire off a short note to the vendor and mention the few with less-than-stellar wrappers but for the most part, I consider this case closed. Those sticks are a bit like me, I guess - ugly spuds with great taste <grin>.

Thanks again to everyone for their opinions and suggestions. I really hope to be able to pay this all forward to another n00b down the line someday who also is unsure of _his _first ISOM order. Wishing all B/SOTLs a great 2010.


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## harley33 (Mar 27, 2009)

Great news. I've been there, done that.

Enjoy the smokes-

Jeff


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## RJT (Feb 12, 2005)

Kool deal....


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## Snake Hips (May 30, 2008)

PJD said:


> OK guys, here's my followup to the original situation.
> 
> Before writing a word to the vendor I wanted to spark one up and have a taste. Bearing in mind these were from a full box dated August 2009 and had just been transported a great distance in frigid/dry conditions I wasn't expecting much. I needn't have worried. Even though the stick wasn't as nice-looking as others it tasted wonderful - everything I remembered from this summer's MC2.
> 
> ...


If they taste good, then what else is there?


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## tobacmon (May 17, 2007)

Great to hear Peter---now your talking! Looks \can be deceiving sometimes I know but until you do your research you just don't know!


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## SmokinApe (Jun 20, 2007)

Great news! Enjoy the smokes...


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## RYJ 08 (Jul 24, 2008)

To be honest i think you have real monti's there but the box was broken up. what i mean is the light brown band looks like the older band, and the shiney one looks like the new style. If you have seen any of the new range like the open eagl, master and regatta have the new shiney band. when they come out of cuba they all look the same colour and size because of the quality control. but if you got them from a vender recommended to you he might of replaced damaged ones with new style, either way enjoy monti's are very earthy and very constant.


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## PJD (Aug 15, 2009)

Final followup from me on this topic: I sent an e-mail to the vendor (with pics) and received only a terse "sorry about that" reply in response. No offer of recompense, no request to send the less-than-perfect sticks back for credit or refund, etc. I will be spending a little more but going with a different vendor next time. I've been reading a number of similar stories and I suspect I'm not alone in having these difficulties.

Again, thanks to one and all for your reassurances that I got a box of the real McCoys. Y'all are great around here.


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## Snake Hips (May 30, 2008)

PJD said:


> Final followup from me on this topic: I sent an e-mail to the vendor (with pics) and received only a terse "sorry about that" reply in response. No offer of recompense, no request to send the less-than-perfect sticks back for credit or refund, etc. I will be spending a little more but going with a different vendor next time. I've been reading a number of similar stories and I suspect I'm not alone in having these difficulties.
> 
> Again, thanks to one and all for your reassurances that I got a box of the real McCoys. Y'all are great around here.


Definitely go with another vendor. That's uncalled-for, IMO.


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