# In Search of Pipe Dreams: "Just sell thirty of your $100 pipes"



## Irfan (Dec 18, 2011)

I got a copy of "In Search of Pipe Dreams" on my kindle the other day. An interesting read, but the guy sure does have expensive tastes in pipes, buying four or five Bo Nordhs and Sixten Ivansenn pipes at a time at $5000 each. He really does seem to believe that "efficient market theory" applies to pipe prices and that expensive pipes are expensive because they are technically better than cheaper pipes. And that the progression keeps on going all the way to the top. That doesn't seem to take into account that certain makers might be able to command astronomically high prices because it's a tight market and they are famous. Any ultra-rich collector, even if he doesn't know nothing about pipes, is gonna want a Bo Nordh after reading that book, which will make the price even higher and therefore make the pipe even more desirable -- obviously, if it costs even more it must be even better.

I liked the bit where he said a "great pipe" is not something that hits you in the face like a psychedelic experience, it's more that it's a pipe that you find yourself reaching for most often out of a collection of 200 or so. Funny, I feel that way about my Barling meer, and it only cost $40.

I love that bit where he addresses the concerns of those that may not be able to afford a $3000 pipe ("Just sell thirty of your $100 pipes". Yeah, right.)

I did like the section on estate pipes. I particularly liked the section on Bertram Pipes of Washington, DD, particularly as I'd just purchased one on eBay for $12.50. The author does say that the quality varied wildly depending on the era, but it looks like it's worth a try. Probably not the one that Joseph Stalin smoked.

The author said Joseph Stalin liked Bertram pipes. Here's a shot of him kicking back after a busy day sending people off to the Gulags.










Just out of curiosity, I also searched eBay for the "great Danes" that the author mentions, and some of the others. He gives great praise to an American pipe maker, Tony Rodriguez. There was one of his pipes for sale last night, from a Russian-based vendor with only a handful of feedback, which might have kept the price down. It was at $68 until the last few mins. I put in a bid at $102.34, just in case everyone was really asleep or didn't notice, but it was never going to be mine, it jumped to $189 in the last ten seconds. That's probably still cheap for a pipe by that maker, but out of my league. I'll stick to my sub-$30 estates and be happy with them until the lotto numbers cooperate.

#5309. Rare Find TONY RODRIGUEZ Hand Made USA. Bo Nordh's briar | eBay


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## drastic_quench (Sep 12, 2008)

That kind of money is just going to far for a pipe. :llama:

Normally, I'm not one to make such declarations, but thousands and thousands for a piece of Mediterranean shrub carved by a mere mortal in the last hundred years? Pass. For five grand, it better allow paradox-free time travel and grant me eye lazers.


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## mikebjrtx (May 21, 2012)

If the enjoyment per dollar really worked that way, I would need emediate medical attention after four hours and would only be getting warmed up.


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## Irfan (Dec 18, 2011)

drastic_quench said:


> Normally, I'm not one to make such declarations, but thousands and thousands for a piece of Mediterranean shrub carved by a mere mortal in the last hundred years? Pass. For five grand, it better allow paradox-free time travel and grant me eye lazers.


I think I'd get the Canon 5D Mark III and a kick ass lens instead, even if my numbers came up. Then a Harley-Davidson for a tour of the US. And then a few other things long before the $5000 pipe (and that was sometime in the '90s!). But there's no accounting for collectors with a large disposable income. People pay all sorts of money for all sorts of ridiculous things. The guy who lives in the flat next to mine is an economist, he told me about "giffen goods" the other day: it's a term economists use for goods that become highly valued because they are expensive, which drives up the demand and makes them even more expensive. Personally, I get my kicks by finding some old estate pipe by a relatively unknown artisan. Then I tell myself that it's probably just as good as the $5000 pipe and that I'm a lot smarter than the those richs sobs who don't know any better. It's just a way that I have of making myself feel good about living on an average income.

To cheer myself up for not getting the Tony Rodriguez, I just put in a low offer on an estate by Aaron Beck, I offered $52 on a pipe that the vendor was asking $164 and she took it (I presume "she" with a name like "Peaceangel", but you never know). Actually, I think there's a bit of psychology operating there: I come away thinking I've gotten a good deal because it was so much less than the asking price, but I wonder if I would have gone that far at an auction? Maybe, maybe not. I admit I'm a sucker for American pipes from the sixties. One of the things that I like is that the guys who made pipes back then were craftsmen, trying to make a good, useful object, and not artistes producing works of art. Here it is:


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## Irfan (Dec 18, 2011)

The author makes a good case for professional restoration of estates, rather than attempting to hack away at them yourself when you don't really know what you are doing. I've never bought a new briar, so I'm kind of used to pipes turning up with cake and oxodized stems. Of course I clean them, but they never look anything close to new and they probably still carry the ghosts of the Christmas past with them. I just don't know any better. I bought another Malaga (1960s, Michigan) the other day, with a bad stem, for $5. If you paid Briar Walker $25 for a new stem and $35 for a full restoration, you'd still get a pipe that is almost guaranteed to be better than anything new that you could get for $65, with the possible exception of a cob. 

My problem is that I'm not based in the US, so sending a pipe there for restoration gets expensive with the shipping. I've just worked out a way that I can re-ship purchases in the US to other US addresses, including a repair person, without bringing them back to Indonesia first (anyone in a similar situation, PM me). I might try Briar Walker on the Bertram and the Aaron Beck to see how it goes.


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## MarkC (Jul 4, 2009)

drastic_quench said:


> That kind of money is just going to far for a pipe. :llama:
> 
> Normally, I'm not one to make such declarations, but thousands and thousands for a piece of Mediterranean shrub carved by a mere mortal in the last hundred years? Pass. For five grand, it better allow paradox-free time travel and grant me eye lazers.


I've got to say, if I could afford Sixten Ivarsson pipes, I'd be right there with him.


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## Hermit (Aug 5, 2008)

MarkC said:


> I've got to say, if I could afford Sixten Ivarsson pipes, I'd be right there with him.


Me too, if I had money to burn, but I think after 
about $500, yer payin' for something more than a pipe.


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## MarkC (Jul 4, 2009)

I don't doubt it; I couldn't say where the line is where you cross over from 'better pipe' to 'something else'; I haven't hit it yet, and with my budget, I don't see it happening anytime soon!


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## Mante (Dec 25, 2009)

LOL. I'm still a newb & cannot justify spending more than $40 on a pipe. Each to his own and I do see the point of the OP's post as I have wasted volumes of dollars on hobbies in the last 10 years. If you enjoy your hobby then do as you will but do not expect everyone else to see it your way as the author did in that book.


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## Irfan (Dec 18, 2011)

Hermit said:


> Me too, if I had money to burn, but I think after
> about $500, yer payin' for something more than a pipe.


Well, that's where I found myself disagreeing with him. If he'd said that he was just in love with beautiful briar and saw the pipes as smokeable works of art, I could have seen his point. But he keeps on insisting that you are far more likely to get a brilliant, functioning price at that level. Interesting, isn't it? I know all the old hands on this forum say, it's not what the pipe looks like, it's how it smokes. Personally, I think aesthetics and so on count for a lot: if you say it doesn't matter what your pipe looks like, I dare you to paint it hot pink. Go on, it won't affect the functionality. Also, if you gave me two pipes, one a Chinese made thing and the other an American estate of the type I like, I don't care if they taste exactly the same, I'm still gonna want the artisan produced American one. I just like the idea of it, and that puts me in a good mood to enjoy my pipe. Maybe some people need to spend $10,000 to get the same affect.


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## Mante (Dec 25, 2009)

> Also, if you gave me two pipes, one a Chinese made thing and the other an American estate of the type I like, I don't care if they taste exactly the same, I'm still gonna want the artisan produced American one.


As a counter point, is that not the same reasoning the author of the book is using but he uses dollars versus you using country of manufacture? I'm just a little confused as it now seems that you are justifying his thoughts though from a different angle. You insinuate that the same dollar chinese one could not be produced by an "artisan". Maybe it is but you do not yet know his name?


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## Irfan (Dec 18, 2011)

Tashaz said:


> As a counter point, is that not the same reasoning the author of the book is using but he uses dollars versus you using country of manufacture? I'm just a little confused as it now seems that you are justifying his thoughts though from a different angle. You insinuate that the same dollar chinese one could not be produced by an "artisan". Maybe it is but you do not yet know his name?


Yes, it could be. I guess that with labor costs being cheaper in China, you could even argue that Chinese pipe that cost the same should be better. There may even be a bunch of cool, froody Chinese pipe makers that I'd like the sound of if I knew about them. But I don't. Maybe that's because I'm not really motivated to look into it. But for some reason, the stories about the older generation of American pipe makers appeals to me, with their shops and their display windows and sample jars. It's not racial or political or social, I'm not an American nor am I unreservedly a fan of all things American, or even most things. It's just when I see an old American estate pipe with a name I've never heard of, I'm motivated to look it up and find out more about it. Thus, with a collection of about 20 briars, I have no less than four Malaga pipes, one John Bessai, one Paul's Cayuga, one Roswitha Anderson, with an Aaron Beck and a Diebel's on the way. I don't hold that those pipes are necessarily the best value (that prize goes to the cob -- another area where the Americans do well!), just that I'm more likely to pick them up, admire them, and want to smoke them than I am with factory produced and European and other non-US pipes.

So, yes, it's the same as the author. It's a matter of non-logical, seemingly irrelevent considerations affecting the enjoyment of a pipe. I don't see any need to try to overcome that. It's a little bit like saying you have a thing for women with flaming red hair. You don't really need to justify it, it just is.


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## Mante (Dec 25, 2009)

Irfan said:


> Yes, it could be. I guess that with labor costs being cheaper in China, you could even argue that Chinese pipe that cost the same should be better. There may even be a bunch of cool, froody Chinese pipe makers that I'd like the sound of if I knew about them. But I don't. Maybe that's because I'm not really motivated to look into it. But for some reason, the stories about the older generation of American pipe makers appeals to me, with their shops and their display windows and sample jars. It's not racial or political or social, I'm not an American nor am I unreservedly a fan of all things American, or even most things. It's just when I see an old American estate pipe with a name I've never heard of, I'm motivated to look it up and find out more about it. Thus, with a collection of about 20 briars, I have no less than four Malaga pipes, one John Bessai, one Paul's Cayuga, one Roswitha Anderson, with an Aaron Beck and a Diebel's on the way. I don't hold that those pipes are necessarily the best value (that prize goes to the cob -- another area where the Americans do well!), just that I'm more likely to pick them up, admire them, and want to smoke them than I am with factory produced and European and other non-US pipes.
> 
> So, yes, it's the same as the author. It's a matter of non-logical, seemingly irrelevent considerations affecting the enjoyment of a pipe. I don't see any need to try to overcome that. It's a little bit like saying you have a thing for women with flaming red hair. You don't really need to justify it, it just is.


Haha. Nicely answered. 

I agree we all have our own little quirks that make us lean towards certain areas in our hobbies. How we justify that to others is for all intent superfluous, we only need to justify it to ourselves to enjoy the hobby. :thumb:

A recent example if I may. I have just taken up archery again. I have a recurve bow & am undertaking instruction to improve my form. Would a $1000 bow do me any good? No it would not but I would derive a massive amount of pleasure from owning such a bow, however, I see no point in spending that sort of money when I cannot do the bow justice. I, like you, see a limit this time around as I have failed to see that limit in the past and spent way to much on other hobbies.

Another analogy. "I smoke cuban cigars every day as I'm a rebel & can afford to". Hmmmm....no need to do that when you can lose the elitism, rebel attitude & risk factor but many choose to do so & justify that they are correct in their thoughts because they have convinced themselves and their palate that everything else is inferior. (Coming from a cuban cigar smoker in a country where they are legal to buy)

P.S. I'm agreeing with you here & I thank you for a thread that is both intriguing from the point of views expressed & the diversity it elicits. Now, way to many big words here & overly serious for my usual posting. Back to your generic program people, nothing to see here.


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## Andrewdk (Feb 3, 2011)

A younger and more rebellious part of me wants to shout Posh Bugger and throw a brick through his window. I'd only spend that kind of money on a pipe if it came with a lapdancing supermodel. Especially anything handmade the quality of work and price do not always walk hand in hand, I know plenty of cigar guys could stick their hands up for high end pricey smokes that are plugged or unsmokable. If the holes are drilled properly, the tenon and shank set properly and the walls of a proper thickness, and of course of the correct material (cob, meer, briar whatever) then the enjoyment level can only be varied by the smokers temperament.

Maybe a noobs opinion but if the smoke is cool, the draw is sufficient, the ember a-glow, and the pipe cool and dry, what the hell does it matter how much it cost. An MM cob, Dr Grabow, Nording, Peterson etc are all capable of the above.


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## MarkC (Jul 4, 2009)

Yes, but different pipes do accomplish the task with different levels of enjoyment, at least to me. A Danish Stanwell smokes a lot better than any basket pipe I've ever had (although I guess you could get lucky). Moving up, the Cavichhis I've picked up smoke better than all the Stanwells (except one; I _did_ get lucky!). It's not inconceivable to me that there carvers who produce pipes that are even better. How much better, and how much that adds to the price is beyond my knowledge.


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## Andrewdk (Feb 3, 2011)

MarkC said:


> Yes, but different pipes do accomplish the task with different levels of enjoyment, at least to me. A Danish Stanwell smokes a lot better than any basket pipe I've ever had (although I guess you could get lucky). Moving up, the Cavichhis I've picked up smoke better than all the Stanwells (except one; I _did_ get lucky!). It's not inconceivable to me that there carvers who produce pipes that are even better. How much better, and how much that adds to the price is beyond my knowledge.


It's undebatable there are pipes of lesser and greater quality, but to say a price point determines a good smoke and all others are inferior and not worth smoking just seems inconcievable to me. Having said that I haven't smoked a $3,000 pipe before either.


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## MarkC (Jul 4, 2009)

Let me know when you do; it's the only way I'll find out what it's like!


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## Andrewdk (Feb 3, 2011)

MarkC said:


> Let me know when you do; it's the only way I'll find out what it's like!


Will do, however once I have posted the review can I come stay at your place? No doubt I would need to flee to another continent as soon as the wife found out how much it cost me. LOL:frown::car:


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## Mante (Dec 25, 2009)

MarkC said:


> Let me know when you do; it's the only way I'll find out what it's like!


You and me both Mark. *Watches Andrew* :spy:

West Aus is good mate.


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## Andrewdk (Feb 3, 2011)

Tashaz said:


> You and me both Mark. *Watches Andrew* :spy:
> 
> West Aus is good mate.


Yeah but it wouldn't be far enough! To be fair to my darling wife she has actually gotten quite tolerant of my tobacco hobby over the last year, however spending that much on a pipe would probably result in said pipe crammed so far down I could rectrum-hale. Now there's a YouTube video you'd never forget.


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## Mante (Dec 25, 2009)

Andrewdk said:


> Yeah but it wouldn't be far enough! To be fair to my darling wife she has actually gotten quite tolerant of my tobacco hobby over the last year, however spending that much on a pipe would probably result in said pipe crammed so far down I could rectrum-hale. Now there's a YouTube video you'd never forget.


Link please. LOL. You would be safe here as long as you went north & called yourself Margaret whilst driving a big dump truck.


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## Deuce Da Masta (Dec 4, 2006)

i couldnt disagree more. I find far more enjoyment in smoking an old estate pipe i found, cleaned and restored back to its old glory. Its half the fun of pipe smoking searching for that perfect smoking gem. Id much rather have 30 $100 pipes that i know and love then one pipe id be afraid to even light up...


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## mikebjrtx (May 21, 2012)

If I ever get to the point that I have $3000.00 to spend on a pipe it would be cool to have it. I bet I'll have the money to just buy it before I have 30 $100.00 pipes I would want to trade. I will also have a $1,000,000.00 car and a $10,000,000.00 house first. I haven't quite decided if I want the pipe or the private jet first. "Let them eat cake"


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## freestoke (Feb 13, 2011)

There is a certain joy in extravagance, as in the author's case, but why would he stop at pipes anybody with the bucks can afford? Seems lazy and dull, when for a mere $12000 he could have had an unsmoked Dunhill given to King George V, in its original case with all the nifty paperwork. There was something like a Comoy's pipe store display cabinet set of four pipes, unsmoked, from the 50s -- I think it was only $10000 or so, though. Even something "cheap", like an unsmoked 60s Sasieni Eight Dot, which you have a reasonable shot at for under $1000, would carry a more "perfect pipe" heft in my view. Artisan schmartisan.

It's a bit like the massive amounts of energy required to get one more teensy piece of acceleration as you approach the speed of light. A chamber to burn tobacco in can only be so good.


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## Irfan (Dec 18, 2011)

freestoke said:


> There is a certain joy in extravagance, as in the author's case, but why would he stop at pipes anybody with the bucks can afford? Seems lazy and dull, when for a mere $12000 he could have had an unsmoked Dunhill given to King George V, in its original case with all the nifty paperwork. [/IMG]


George, Shmeorge. I want Stalin's.


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## szyzk (Nov 27, 2010)

And my new business venture comes to mind: I'm going to begin carving $8000 pipes. Why $8000? Because that's what I'm going to charge! They won't be worth more than the cost of the wood, the knife and my time but Mr. Author doesn't need to know that. I'll take out a billboard in front of this guy's house to advertise my wares and RAKE IN THE MONEY!

Also, my $8000 pipes are going to be of the highest quality because they cost $8000!


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## Irfan (Dec 18, 2011)

szyzk said:


> Also, my $8000 pipes are going to be of the highest quality because they cost $8000!


Hehe. But it is important that someone actually buys them. Mr. Author did actually point out that the explosion in prices at the high end is encouraging that kind of attitude. Back in the 1990s, Bo Nordh was turning over more than a million dollars a year, if you add up the figures, not too mouldy. As Mr. Author says, this encourages the attitude: How hard can it be to make a pipe?! I can do that!


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## freestoke (Feb 13, 2011)

Everyone should read *Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds*, as in, *required reading to get a high school diploma*. There should be an entire course dedicated to it, and in college, "Remedial EPDMC" for those who didn't attend the right schools. The pertinent chapters in this discussion are "The South Sea Company" and "The Tulip Mania". :lol:


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## Irfan (Dec 18, 2011)

freestoke said:


> The pertinent chapters in this discussion are "The South Sea Company" and "The Tulip Mania".


I've read another book on the tulip mania. Hysterical! My favorite was the bit where the shipping director invited the sea captain over for breakfast to congratulate him for his successful journey. While the director was out of the room, the captain saw a "pickled onion" in a jar and ate it. It was the director's prize tulip bulb, worth more than the entire cargo on the recent voyage. The captain was imprisoned until the director's rage subsided.

Facebook, anyone?


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## freestoke (Feb 13, 2011)

Irfan said:


> I've read another book on the tulip mania. Hysterical! My favorite was the bit where the shipping director invited the sea captain over for breakfast to congratulate him for his successful journey. While the director was out of the room, the captain saw a "pickled onion" in a jar and ate it. It was the director's prize tulip bulb, worth more than the entire cargo on the recent voyage. The captain was imprisoned until the director's rage subsided.
> 
> Facebook, anyone?


"Hello, Dear! Welcome home! While you were in London, I let Forsythe take a few of your pipes to kindergarten to paint. The school said it would be fine as along as they hadn't been smoked, so I hope that's all right, since you have so many. Isn't it cute how he's carved his little initials into the bowls!"


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## CaptainEnormous (Sep 30, 2010)

Just to throw in an opinion on the side of the collectors (of which I'm not one, but might be if finances were different). . .

The OP mentions Sixten Ivarsson, which is a great case to look at.
Sixten revolutionized pipes and pipe-making. For a collector, he's _the _catalyst for the transition from classic English forms to Danish styling. A true master.
There's a proud lineage in the high-end pipe world of people who apprenticed under him. . .not the least of which being his children and grandchildren.
In fact, it's hard to point to a current pipemaker who's work _doesn't_ incorporate Sixten's.

So, yeah, no pipe smokes 30x better than a $100 pipe. 
But that can't be the only point. 
There's got to be room for beauty and form. And history.


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## Irfan (Dec 18, 2011)

freestoke said:


> "Hello, Dear! Welcome home! While you were in London, I let Forsythe take a few of your pipes to kindergarten to paint. The school said it would be fine as along as they hadn't been smoked, so I hope that's all right, since you have so many. Isn't it cute how he's carved his little initials into the bowls!"


Hehe. Well, after he'd calmed down, he might realize that little Forsythe might have a brilliant future as a million-dollar-a-year pipe maker.

I like the idea that the next generation of teenage multi-billionaire entrepreneurs will be pipe makers. So much more useful than some dumb internet application like Facebook or Twitter.



CaptainEnormous said:


> There's got to be room for beauty and form. And history.


Sure. It's no sillier than people paying ridiculous prices for an Andy Warhol painting, or Charles Manson's swiss army pocket knife, or a piece of toilet paper used by Britney Spears or whatever. Sorry, the last two examples are silly, but you know what I mean. I guess I just don't understand the mentality of people with more money than they know what to do with. I suppose it's no different from me looking for a sixties pipe and then googling to see if I can find out a bit about the maker, maybe even dig up an image. Just a matter of adding three or four zeros to what you spend on it.


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## MarkC (Jul 4, 2009)

freestoke said:


> Everyone should read *Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds*, as in, *required reading to get a high school diploma*. There should be an entire course dedicated to it, and in college, "Remedial EPDMC" for those who didn't attend the right schools. The pertinent chapters in this discussion are "The South Sea Company" and "The Tulip Mania". :lol:


Hold on there; you're talking investors now. That's a whole different breed than collectors. For someone completely bitten by the collector bug, the price doesn't matter; he'll never sell it anyway. Admittedly, a lot of people lie somewhere along the line from collector to investor, but anyone who's actually using collectable pipes as an investment tool rather than a collection will most likely get just what they deserve.


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## MarkC (Jul 4, 2009)

Irfan said:


> I guess I just don't understand the mentality of people with more money than they know what to do with.


Try again. It's pretty obvious that they know exactly what to do with it.

(By the way, great conversation starter, but the board says I've gone bump crazy on RG lately; I owe you one!)


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## freestoke (Feb 13, 2011)

CaptainEnormous said:


> So, yeah, no pipe smokes 30x better than a $100 pipe.
> But that can't be the only point.
> There's got to be room for beauty and form. And history.


The Fallacy of the Beard, if I remember my old logic class aright, although there is something to your accusation of us presenting a False Choice as well. At what point does one call the pecuniary worth of a piece of art too dear? Beauty being in the eye of the beholder and all that, exactly how much prettier are these pipes than a Castello, say? $6000 prettier? Are Andy Warhol paintings really worth it, or is it just buying a piece of psychedelic history? In other words, just how much are these pipes really worth, other than to say people pony up the money for them? Pretty though they may be, a pipe not only reaches its smokability limit but also a beauty limit, leaving us with history and rarity to make up the difference. Since I had gotten the impression these were currently being produced, I've got to wonder about rarity and history.

As to rarity, an "unjust" phenomenon exists in the classical guitar world with regard to the price of fine old intruments. Masuro Kohno and his contemporary Ignacio Fleta made world class guitars. The lazy Fleta didn't make nearly as many guitars as the industrious Kohno. Masuro Kohno worked night and day, tirelessly pumping out guitars, so there are a lot of them. I would challenge anybody to try to convince me that a Fleta sounds ANY better or is ANY prettier or ANY better made or uses better materials than a Kohno, but the Fleta's go for astronomical prices, while you can get a top of the line Kohno for maybe $5000. Perhaps the same is true for pipes: The pipes of lazy pipe makers cost more than those of the hard working pipe makers, even when they don't make better or prettier pipes. Life is never fair, is it?


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## Mante (Dec 25, 2009)

MarkC said:


> (By the way, great conversation starter, but the board says I've gone bump crazy on RG lately; I owe you one!)


Agreed & I am in the same predicament as I bumped Irfan recently.


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## Andrewdk (Feb 3, 2011)

Tashaz said:


> Agreed & I am in the same predicament as I bumped Irfan recently.


Sorted!
I like both Dave and Jim's points on history and rarity. I'm a history buff and have to admit when I see Edwardian silver mounted pipes I go a little dizzy, I know I'd never smoke it and it would sit on a shelf but the amber stem, the markers mark stammed on the mounting. It's a piece of a time gone past. I think these make better arguments then, "As its more expensive it must be better, just send Jeeves down to the flea market with 30 of your cheapo $100 pipes then".


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## Mante (Dec 25, 2009)

ROTFLMAO! Indeed Andrew. There is much that we admire about any hobby & some of us spend insane amounts of money chasing them. Some can spend abhorrent amounts and live in their small belief that they have the best of it. Better to actually enjoy every smoke for what it is & see the beauty involved methinks.


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## Irfan (Dec 18, 2011)

freestoke said:


> Are Andy Warhol paintings really worth it, or is it just buying a piece of psychedelic history? In other words, just how much are these pipes really worth, other than to say people pony up the money for them?


Andy Warhol used to be fascinated by this whole argument himself. There's a story about him producing two identical screen paintings, selling one for five bucks at the local flea market, and the other to a dealer for $50,000 or whatever. "Other than to say people pony up the money for them"? Well, I'm not sure that anything has any real, intrinsic value except what people are prepared to pay for it. How would you ever know? I had a friend who was an art dealer, she always said that when I asked her what a painting was worth: "It's worth what I can sell it for. I'll know what it's worth when I've found the buyer."


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## freestoke (Feb 13, 2011)

As my Latin teacher suggested, at least as I remember it, "_De gustibus non disputaremus_". He constantly entreated us to use the active voice, rather than use "est" with a gerund, participle or infinitive.









In art, judging quality demands knowledge of the techniques and materials and a quasi-objective perception of the skill of the artisan. The price of an object d'art frequently reflects the consensus of experts in the field, but experts can be as bogus as the works they peddle. "Music" has its highly praised charlatans, too; Ethyl Merman, anyone? mg: Or say Charlie Daniels, who in all truth is a hack fiddler, but makes tons more money than a studio fiddle player who could saw mountain music circles around him and probably throw in a Bach partita and Irish fiddle playing for good measure.

I'm sticking with "Tulip Mania". :lol:


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## MarkC (Jul 4, 2009)

I can't stop laughing; out of all the awful music that's been recorded, how did you pick Ethyl Merman? I wouldn't even know how to start winnowing down the list!

Okay, here's what I think: if this guy is actually saying that smokability is the sole criteria in the price given to a pipe, yeah, he's obviously smoking the wrong pipes if you know what I mean. (I have to wonder if he believes smooth pipes are inherently superior to sandblasted models; this price theory seems to indicate that.) On the other hand, when a carver gains a reputation for delivering a great smoker time after time, it's certainly not going to hurt the price he can get for his pieces. So, not the sole criteria, but certainly a very big one, at least for a pipe smoker.

On the other hand, the idea that there is some price level at which no one should ever buy a pipe seems ludicrous to me. Certainly, there are levels that *you* should not buy a pipe, and there are levels that *I* should not buy a pipe, and hey, they might even be the same levels, but why Warren Buffet should have to smoke a Stanwell just because I do escapes me.


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## Irfan (Dec 18, 2011)

MarkC said:


> ... but why Warren Buffet should have to smoke a Stanwell just because I do escapes me.


I don't know, it kind of goes with his down-to-earth image. Actually, I can see him smoking a cob.


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## freestoke (Feb 13, 2011)

MarkC said:


> I can't stop laughing; out of all the awful music that's been recorded, how did you pick Ethyl Merman?


It was sort of like in *Ghostbusters*, when Mr. Stay Puft popped into Dan Akroyd's mind for the incarnanation of Gozer.









While never achieving the fame of Ethel (misspelled it first time through ) Merman, Florence Foster Jenkins once sold out Carnegie Hall in a particularly telling manifestation of HL Menken's observation, that nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American public. Here she is with a stunning rendition of Mozart -- I kid you not, stunning. My favorite singer of all time. It just gets better and better as the performance goes along, honest.

Florence Jenkins massacres Mozart - YouTube


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## MarkC (Jul 4, 2009)

I honestly thought I was so musically inept that I questioned my ability to tell the talented from the untalented. Thank you for reassuring me that, at least at one level, I can spot the difference!


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## MarkC (Jul 4, 2009)

mikebjrtx said:


> If I ever get to the point that I have $3000.00 to spend on a pipe it would be cool to have it. I bet I'll have the money to just buy it before I have 30 $100.00 pipes I would want to trade. I will also have a $1,000,000.00 car and a $10,000,000.00 house first. I haven't quite decided if I want the pipe or the private jet first. "Let them eat cake"


Sorry, but this post is still stuck in my brain. You seriously would spend a million on a car before you'd spend $3000 on a pipe? That boggles my mind.


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## mikebjrtx (May 21, 2012)

MarkC said:


> Sorry, but this post is still stuck in my brain. You seriously would spend a million on a car before you'd spend $3000 on a pipe? That boggles my mind.


Yes, no, maybe I am not really sure. It's not like I will have to make up my mind any time soon. Based on my preferences now I would actually have to sell 500 cobs to get that pipe. I was just pointing out that there are those with the means that a 10,000.00 pipe would not be something that they would think twice before buying. I was also wanting to point out the obliviousness to others pecuniary means the author showed with his statement "just sell thirty of your $100 pipes" by comparing it to the better known " Qu'ils mangent de la brioche"


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## freestoke (Feb 13, 2011)

mikebjrtx said:


> ...the *better known* " Qu'ils mangent de la brioche"


Sequeing neatly into the intellectual equivalent of 30 $100 pipes, with the pricey "_brioche_" rather than cake. :lol:


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## MarkC (Jul 4, 2009)

Well, now, I think we have to look at other factors. For example, for someone that's been smoking thirty years, having thirty $100 pipes is nothing. If you've been smoking for three years like me, it sounds mighty impressive. Plus, if you've already got 200 pipes, I don't see another $100 pipe as something that would convince you to take your wallet out. A lot depends on how far down the slope you are. Heck, if someone had told me how much tobacco I'd have on hand now three years ago, I would have assumed that at least a short stint in the padded cell was involved.


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