# Legit Stores like LCDH vs Grey Market vendors



## TonyBrooklyn (Jan 28, 2010)

_*Just recently my buddy Pete bought me back a box of crack sticks. Everyone out of the box fantastic.
Now i am curious is there something to this authorized store vs grey market vendors.
Or is it just the luck of the draw.
Me and Pete who is camera shy discussed it last night. True this box has much darker wrappers than the other.
And while i personally prefer these wrappers to lighter colored ones. It is purely for their aesthetic value.
While it is true to some degree the wrapper imparts certain flavors. I never thought it to be the whole story, of what the cigar was all about. They are also so perfectly constructed and burn so well so young. Look at that ash these are ROTT.
Okay maybe storage has something to do with it. Well all i can say for me personally i would not mind paying the extra scratch. If this is the case all the time. The harder part would be securing a steady supply.

As the night went on and we really thought back about it. Sure we have had our share of experiences through out the years. I mean Jeez me and Pete have been smoking Cubans since The Marines. We both agreed that some of the best cigars we have ever smoked we purchased in stores. Almost always From Spain or England. I frankly always bought into the general consensus. That it really is all just marketing , or is it??? Now i have had some outstanding cigars from grey market vendors. Quite frankly nothing as good as cigars purchased through legit channels. All right so you read this far. Allow an old man the privilege of picking your brain for a moment. Thoughts? :vs_cool:
*_


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## Gummy Jones (Mar 30, 2017)

makes sense that grey market cigars get picked over

thankfully you cant always judge a book by its cover!


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## Cigary (Oct 19, 2007)

Can of worms ......LCDH has become synonymous with quality over the years where they have status as the "go to" safe place instead of " gray market" Vendors.

I have my own Vendors that I use that have done me well over the decades because I have vetted them....I know their product and their NAMES....relationships that were developed over time and without them it would have been a process of pain and BS. Also, use a good Credit Card just in case an issue comes up where quality is a problem and ensure that you read their Return Policy/Warranty because some will only work with you for 30 days and then once that time frame is over....you're SOL. When you work with a reputable source you are somewhat protected. My Sources give me at least 1 year because they know me and have been my source for a long time and know that I rest/age my orders plus the fact that as a tip....I tell them to choose one cigar out of every box I order....this is the secret sauce of ordering because they take time to process "good cigars" instead of just ordering cigars in general....this gives them the incentive to actually pick good product....good cap, wrapper, etc. I'm not a 'potluck' type of person when it comes to my cigars. JHO


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## BobP (Nov 2, 2018)

Learn something new every day here.


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## TonyBrooklyn (Jan 28, 2010)

Cigary said:


> Can of worms ......LCDH has become synonymous with quality over the years where they have status as the "go to" safe place instead of " gray market" Vendors.
> 
> I have my own Vendors that I use that have done me well over the decades because I have vetted them....I know their product and their NAMES....relationships that were developed over time and without them it would have been a process of pain and BS. Also, use a good Credit Card just in case an issue comes up where quality is a problem and ensure that you read their Return Policy/Warranty because some will only work with you for 30 days and then once that time frame is over....you're SOL. When you work with a reputable source you are somewhat protected. My Sources give me at least 1 year because they know me and have been my source for a long time and know that I rest/age my orders plus the fact that as a tip....I tell them to choose one cigar out of every box I order....this is the secret sauce of ordering because they take time to process "good cigars" instead of just ordering cigars in general....this gives them the incentive to actually pick good product....good cap, wrapper, etc. I'm not a 'potluck' type of person when it comes to my cigars. JHO


I love the new icon yes premium for sure none better than my brother from another mother!:wink2:
I know the vendor you speak of will hand pick a box of cigars by your choice of wrapper color, aroma,even draw tight or loose. He is above the grey market vendors. Yes i agree one gets what they pay for no doubt. However for the premium he charges . Many are either unable or un willing to cough up the extra scratch. great post i hope you newbies are taking this in. Sorry my R/G gun is empty but your in the cross-hairs. Peace my brother! :vs_cool:


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## Cigary (Oct 19, 2007)

TonyBrooklyn said:


> I love the new icon yes premium for sure none better than my brother from another mother!:wink2:
> I know the vendor you speak of will hand pick a box of cigars by your choice of wrapper color, aroma,even draw tight or loose. He is above the grey market vendors. Yes i agree one gets what they pay for no doubt. However for the premium he charges . Many are either unable or un willing to cough up the extra scratch. great post i hope you newbies are taking this in. Sorry my R/G gun is empty but your in the cross-hairs. Peace my brother! :vs_cool:


You've given me more RG than I deserve.. I owe more for certain. You and I are from a past generation where your word was your bond...a handshake was a contract and when you and I talk or exchange posts I don't even think about trust...I trust you implicitly and that's better than currency these days and the relationship of those Vendors that you and I both know... I've only had one screw up in a decade and guess what...they fixed it immediately and took ownership and on the replacement order I told the guy...take any 2 cigars for his help...to his credit he only took the customary 1 cigar tip and that spoke volumes to me about this man....honesty and character.

As far as Life Time Member Badge... doesn't even get me a cup of coffee... and I loves me coffee. Brother from another Mother is pretty darn accurate. &#128513;


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## bpegler (Mar 30, 2006)

The reputable grey market vendors are all Authorized Dealers. You can verify this through Habanos S.A. 

They buy master cases and sell the boxes contained within. I don’t think that there are any regional differences in the quality of boxes in a master case. Perhaps the EMS cigars were better at one time, but I don’t think that that’s still necessarily true anymore.

I think that there are certainly some vendors who do a much better job with storage. And there are definitely some who are much more careful inspecting before sales.

LCDHS do get first crack at the rare and htf stuff. And a good shop will return inspected boxes that are sub par for some reason. 

But I must confess that I’ve never received a bad EMS box, so maybe, just maybe, there are some additional quality controls happening somewhere.


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## TonyBrooklyn (Jan 28, 2010)

bpegler said:


> The reputable grey market vendors are all Authorized Dealers. You can verify this through Habanos S.A.
> 
> They buy master cases and sell the boxes contained within. I don't think that there are any regional differences in the quality of boxes in a master case. Perhaps the EMS cigars were better at one time, but I don't think that that's still necessarily true anymore.
> 
> ...


_
_

:grin2::grin2::grin2::grin2::grin2:


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## Mark in wi (Apr 22, 2018)

Cigary said:


> You've given me more RG than I deserve.. I owe more for certain. You and I are from a past generation where your word was your bond...a handshake was a contract and when you and I talk or exchange posts I don't even think about trust...I trust you implicitly and that's better than currency these days and the relationship of those Vendors that you and I both know... I've only had one screw up in a decade and guess what...*thiey fixed it immediately and took ownership and on the replacement order I told the guy...take any 2 cigars for his help...to his credit he only took the customary 1 cigar tip and that spoke volumes to me about this man....honesty and character.
> *
> As far as Life Time Member Badge... doesn't even get me a cup of coffee... and I loves me coffee. Brother from another Mother is pretty darn accurate. &#55357;&#56833;


One of theses days we need the experienced elders to teach a "Proper Etiquette for Cigar Smokers" class. Topics could include; 100 level - how to season a humidor, cutting the cap (including not sucking on your cigar and asking to borrow a cutter), and proper etiquette at a B&M/lounge - including not running anything under your nose at a store. 200 level intermediate lessons on storage, your changing palette, different generalities about leaf origin/flavors, sharing of your new found hobby with others, and an introduction to resting cigars. After completion of the previously mentioned lessons they would move on to teaching noobs patience, aging cigars, and of course the proper way to order cigars to ensure a long lasting relationship, and good cigars, from a retailer. I'm sure there are more topics I'm still unaware of that will need to be taught too.

Oh wait a minute...that's what this place is! Online learning at it's best!:smile2: I guess we will have to start calling some around here "Professor." :vs_laugh:


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## S&W (Aug 2, 2018)

From a Noobs perspective this adds another layer of complexity to an already daunting adventure. I've got to say that I'm having trouble working up the nerve to order CC's from anyone without the benefit of the advice that I can't get because it's against the rules. I'm beginning to see why relatively few BOTL smoke CC's. It's not for the faint of heart.


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## Cigary (Oct 19, 2007)

S&W said:


> From a Noobs perspective this adds another layer of complexity to an already daunting adventure. I've got to say that I'm having trouble working up the nerve to order CC's from anyone without the benefit of the advice that I can't get because it's against the rules. I'm beginning to see why relatively few BOTL smoke CC's. It's not for the faint of heart.


It's a different journey for sure....CC's are forbidden fruit and have been for decades so when one goes down the road it has a different trajectory. Puff is a place that will not let the members dictate their Policy....regardless of our opinion and I can't say I agree or disagree with it....it just means that one has to seek their own journey and do it in such a way where the compromise doesn't break established rules...it can be done but this is why Veterans are so quiet to discuss.....and DON'T ask them....at some point you'll find through experience what the answer is...secret handshake, secret code, secret this secret that....took me years to do it right so if that gives you any info....how it's done.


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## BobP (Nov 2, 2018)

S&W said:


> From a Noobs perspective this adds another layer of complexity to an already daunting adventure. I've got to say that I'm having trouble working up the nerve to order CC's from anyone without the benefit of the advice that I can't get because it's against the rules. I'm beginning to see why relatively few BOTL smoke CC's. It's not for the faint of heart.


The first time is always tough. This can be applied to a few things that come to mind, for example jumping out of a perfectly good helicopter. But, after the first time, it gets easier and you find yourself enjoying it. Just be prepared for your second order soon after the first.


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## S&W (Aug 2, 2018)

Cigary said:


> Puff is a place that will not let the members dictate their Policy....regardless of our opinion and I can't say I agree or disagree with it....it just means that one has to seek their own journey and do it in such a way where the compromise doesn't break established rules...


The rules are in place for a reason and I wasn't looking for a work-around. Just expressing a little dismay, that while still debating whether and where to take the plunge, yet another variable to consider was presented in this thread. But I'm not easily discouraged.

This is another excellent thread with great info. I apologize for the thread drift.


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## TonyBrooklyn (Jan 28, 2010)

S&W said:


> From a Noobs perspective this adds another layer of complexity to an already daunting adventure. I've got to say that I'm having trouble working up the nerve to order CC's from anyone without the benefit of the advice that I can't get because it's against the rules. I'm beginning to see why relatively few BOTL smoke CC's. It's not for the faint of heart.


Start with a small order become friends with those that smoke Cubans. Etc.:vs_cool:
Its really that easy or at least it was for us old timers.
And we had to order by word of mouth and trust there was no internet.
Orders where phoned or faxed in back then.
The problem that i have these days with helping people out is.
As soon as they hit a bump you get the old well you told me to.
Forget about a thank you sense of entitlement i think its called. :vs_laugh:
This thread was about differences in legit stores vs grey market period.
So how did you interject with purchases. :vs_mad:


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## S&W (Aug 2, 2018)

TonyBrooklyn said:


> ...This thread was about differences in legit stores vs grey market period.
> So how did you interject with purchases. :vs_mad:


That's an easy question. The answer is "a sense of entitlement":wink2:

Again my apologies for the thread drift. Linear thought/conversation is not one of my strong suits.

...and Thank you!
:grin2:


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## UBC03 (Nov 18, 2015)

S&W said:


> That's an easy question. The answer is "a sense of entitlement":wink2:
> 
> Again my apologies for the thread drift. Linear thought/conversation is not one of my strong suits.
> 
> ...


Thanks for respecting our rules..I understand, it's tough to get a grasp on things

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk


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## Cigary (Oct 19, 2007)

S&W said:


> The rules are in place for a reason and I wasn't looking for a work-around. Just expressing a little dismay, that while still debating whether and where to take the plunge, yet another variable to consider was presented in this thread. But I'm not easily discouraged.
> 
> This is another excellent thread with great info. I apologize for the thread drift.


I didn't think that you were looking for a work-a-round....and Tony expressed his post perfectly.....

*Start with a small order become friends with those that smoke Cubans. Etc.
Its really that easy or at least it was for us old timers.
And we had to order by word of mouth and trust there was no internet.
Orders where phoned or faxed in back then.
The problem that i have these days with helping people out is.
As soon as they hit a bump you get the old well you told me to.
Forget about a thank you sense of entitlement i think its called. 
This thread was about differences in legit stores vs grey market period.*

Over the years Veteran Members have been exploited for their knowledge when it comes to Vendors who deal in Cuban Cigars....it goes on and I'm sure that our Veteran Members and Mods can give you stories that would piss off the Good Humor Man even on their best days. When I was naive' enough to let info like that out I still got exploited giving out sensitive info and those who said...."just tell me who you use and nobody will find out...." well, guess what...the line formed around me in PM's as to.....hey, so and so told me about such and such Vendor and can you give me the name of your 'guy' so I can get deals and can I use your name as a referral.....( r u friggin kidding me? )

This is one big reason as to why I wouldn't give out info ...esp. to new people....I have trust issues in general but stuff like that just sends me over the top.

Conversations or discussions about the subject just doesn't make sense because everybody knows how sensitive it is so why is it still around....again...forbidden fruit is the 'draw'....and it's not worth the person with the info to let it out because invariably the story gets out and the person trying to do something to "help" out another is the one who gets spanked over it. Sooooo,,,,for new Members ...or Veterans who look for sources....DON'T EVEN GO THERE....DON'T DO IT.....don't compromise a Veteran with that question even with the caveat that you wouldn't reveal sources from private conversations....will this stop the practice....even Im not that naive'.:serious:


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## TonyBrooklyn (Jan 28, 2010)

S&W said:


> That's an easy question. The answer is "a sense of entitlement":wink2:
> 
> Again my apologies for the thread drift. Linear thought/conversation is not one of my strong suits.
> 
> ...


No worries and thanks for the thanks.
Even though i did nothing for you.
And thank you for getting the thread back on track.
Before a trigger happy well never mind.
Just glad it was not shut down. :vs_cool::vs_cool::vs_cool::vs_cool::vs_cool:


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## Pag#11 (Apr 14, 2018)

My opinion is some places pick through there master cases and select the best boxes. 
Other places sell the whole case . You can get a very good box or a not so good box and it is what it is. 
What does the place do with the boxes that don't pass his scrutiny? Probably sell to the other guy. 
I have heard nothing but good about those dark wrapper crack sticks. Little stronger than the light wrappers which is fine with me. 
On a final note in the age of the internet I don't have to ask Tony or cigary where. It's all out there. People just don't want to do the foot work and research. If I didn't already know who has the dark wrappers within 10 mins and some busy fingers I can find out. Puff is old-school they want you to put the effort in as it should be. Amen to that fellas.

Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk


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## Peapaw (Oct 12, 2018)

I haven't decided if it's worth the hassle for me to go through the trouble of finding a source. 
And that's me personally, every one is different.


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## mata777 (Jul 11, 2011)

Like Tony, I prefer dark wrappers. In my newbie days I would just place the order and would receive an open "inspected" box, 8 out of 10 times I would end up with light wrappers. Two years into it I started to request sealed boxes and ended up with lots more of the darker wrappers. 

There's one vendor that I'm willing to order from that always opens and inspects boxes, goes through master cases, and lists box codes/years during his sales. (about all I can say), sometimes great deals can be had through him and his stock is as good or better as any LCDH stick that I've had in my humble opnion. That said I've also had sticks from other grey market vendors that have rivaled or surpased LCDH sticks. 

Even a not so great box of habanos knocks the socks off 90% of the over priced nc's out there, for me at least. Pro tip, invest in a perfect draw tool to deal with the occasional plugged stick, not super common but does happen (even happens with nc's from time to time).


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## TonyBrooklyn (Jan 28, 2010)

I really appreciate all the input fella's.
You know i have been doing this so long.
Sometimes its good to get others perspective.
It keeps the senses keen and the eyes sharp.
:vs_cool::vs_cool::vs_cool::vs_cool::vs_cool:


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## Perfecto Dave (Nov 24, 2009)

Looks like a half corona in your pictures :wink2:
Being a desert rat I love these for a quick summer morning smoke before the day heat is unbearable.>
My short experience has been all over the board with these. Purchased from several different places and they're never the same box to box. Just a hit and miss product. Personally I think this comes more from the mass production of the product than where they were purchased. I say this one thing only because I had the pleasure of visiting as close to source as one could probably get and was able to open boxes and have a look. Half coronas really are not much cheaper on the island than thru mail vendors but in my mind I thought I might be getting a better product from being closer to the source. With summer heat coming, I grabbed a couple boxes because of the same reason you liking dark wraps. Comparing both boxes against one another I preferred one box over the other even tho on the inside they looked the same. I really think it's more the luck of the draw. Especially on the smaller ring smokes. One box burned with a dark pepper ash and the other with a salt, salt/pepper finish. Go figure. :serious:


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## TonyBrooklyn (Jan 28, 2010)

Perfecto Dave said:


> Looks like a half corona in your pictures :wink2:
> Being a desert rat I love these for a quick summer morning smoke before the day heat is unbearable.>
> My short experience has been all over the board with these. Purchased from several different places and they're never the same box to box. Just a hit and miss product. Personally I think this comes more from the mass production of the product than where they were purchased. I say this one thing only because I had the pleasure of visiting as close to source as one could probably get and was able to open boxes and have a look. Half coronas really are not much cheaper on the island than thru mail vendors but in my mind I thought I might be getting a better product from being closer to the source. With summer heat coming, I grabbed a couple boxes because of the same reason you liking dark wraps. Comparing both boxes against one another I preferred one box over the other even tho on the inside they looked the same. I really think it's more the luck of the draw. Especially on the smaller ring smokes. One box burned with a dark pepper ash and the other with a salt, salt/pepper finish. Go figure. :serious:


You know Dave i gotta agree with your assessment, as i am burning through these. 
I am finding as i am half way into both boxes. That they do indeed vary quite a bit. As do many smaller cigars. This goes for my beloved Partagas Shorts as well. The only smaller cigar i have ever found to be extremely consistent is a Bolivar Petite Corona. Just got an idea for a thread.:vs_cool:


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## Bird-Dog (Oct 16, 2009)

Perfecto Dave said:


> Looks like a half corona in your pictures :wink2:
> Being a desert rat I love these for a quick summer morning smoke before the day heat is unbearable.>
> My short experience has been all over the board with these. Purchased from several different places and they're never the same box to box. Just a hit and miss product. Personally I think this comes more from the mass production of the product than where they were purchased. I say this one thing only because I had the pleasure of visiting as close to source as one could probably get and was able to open boxes and have a look. Half coronas really are not much cheaper on the island than thru mail vendors but in my mind I thought I might be getting a better product from being closer to the source. With summer heat coming, I grabbed a couple boxes because of the same reason you liking dark wraps. Comparing both boxes against one another I preferred one box over the other even tho on the inside they looked the same. I really think it's more the luck of the draw. Especially on the smaller ring smokes. One box burned with a dark pepper ash and the other with a salt, salt/pepper finish. Go figure. :serious:





TonyBrooklyn said:


> You know Dave i gotta agree with your assessment, as i am burning through these.
> I am finding as i am half way into both boxes. That they do indeed vary quite a bit. As do many smaller cigars. This goes for my beloved Partagas Shorts as well. The only smaller cigar i have ever found to be extremely consistent is a Bolivar Petite Corona. Just got an idea for a thread.:vs_cool:


+1

The funny thing is, virtually all of the HUHC's I've had were from the Upmann factory and there's still a good bit of variance. I expect that from high-volume stuff like Monte #4's that are made in a whole bunch of different factories. But you'd think there'd be a little more consistency coming out of the main factory for the marca.

And, maybe it's just luck-of-the-draw, but I've had better results with the tins than dress boxes. That's based on at least half-a-dozen 5x5's vs three or four boxes/25, and it's held true for all of them. Don't ask why that would be, but as mentioned above, they were all LUB's (in the 2013-15 range). Not that I wouldn't ever buy boxes anymore if there's a big price difference, but all things being equal I'll go for the tins first.


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