# land of the free?



## catfish (Jan 31, 2007)

I just scanned over the titles of the threads in this section, the first thing that poped into my mind was what the heck is happening to our freedoms. Democrat, Republican I wouldn't give a plug nickel for any of these crooks. Someday all americans are going to wake up and have a realization that we now live in the book "1984" and we will have nobody to blame but ourselves.


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## Will_S (Jan 2, 2008)

Yep this is it. Pilot chipping programs are already in place for "the sake of the children" and when those kids grow up, they'll be chipping their kids. Video cameras are everywhere and autonmous remote controlled observation drones are a reality. If you go to an MD complaing of feeling out of sorts or discontent, chances are they'll offer you the latest in mind control medication. Everybody has a number. Rfid chips are already in passports and will soon be in everything we own. Buy Coke, watch american idol and keep whatever humanity or individuality you have managed to salvage under your hat or they'll take it from you, it stands in the way of you being a good consumer.


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## Jbailey (Nov 9, 2006)

Quote from Bill Hicks

“Go back to bed, America, your government has figured out how it all transpired. Go back to bed America, your government is in control. Here, here's American Gladiators. Watch this, shut up, go back to bed America, here is American Gladiators, here is 56 channels of it! Watch these pituitary retards bang their f***ing skulls together and congratulate you on the living in the land of freedom. Here you go America - you are free to do what well tell you! You are free to do what we tell you!”


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## RETSF (Dec 7, 2006)

*A friend of mine sent this to me. The author is unknown.

Panem et Circenses*

Mrs. du Toit 
The title of this post literally translates to "Bread and Circuses" and originates from: 
&#8230; Already long ago, from when we sold our vote to no man, 
the People have abdicated our duties; for the People who once upon a time 
handed out military command, high civil office, legions - everything, now 
restrains itself and anxiously hopes for just two things: 
bread and circuses​It was written by the poet Juvenal in the 1st/2nd century AD. 
It is as true today as it was when it was written, and it will be true tomorrow and for all the tomorrows to come. 
I cannot think of a phrase and a citation that more clearly articulates what is Man and what is society. 
The use of the phrase then (and the use now) translates to a panacea, something that serves to distract the populace from what is truly important. In Roman times it was literally the handing out of bread and the circus (the performances at the Coliseum). 
Politicians knew then (and know today) that all they need to do to placate and pacify a people is to throw them a few crumbs of bread. They need to make sure the populace are entertained and fed, with a few bricks of welfare cheese, a promise of free TV and radio, food stamps to buy boxes of Kraft Macaroni and Cheese, and tax breaks for the rest of us, so we might adorn our bodies and our children with stuff to make life tolerable. 
As long as their bellies are fed, at least partially, they won't pay attention to the erosions of their freedom or feel the hand in their pocket that takes their money or fondles their sex organs. 
It is, in essence, whatever distracts Man from doing what is right, be that the "selfish" interest of obtaining sustenance for himself, or the escapism he finds in watching the misery and torture of others. Whether he is caught up in the gossip of the latest scandal or crime, or hiding out in his head, dreaming of lofty ideas of what could be, it is still a circus and still simply a distraction, a slight of hand. If everyone would just behave the way he believes they should, or if he were in charge, or his policies or theories were put in place, all would be well. In not unusual moments of fancy, he might even choose to imagine that they really are, _en masse_, basically wonderful beings. 
We watch the never-ending broadcasts of modern incarnations of the gladiators of the Coliseum in shows such as _Survivor_, _Intervention_, or the great passions of soap operas; marvel at gizmo extravaganzas, or any number of things that make our lives easier or filled with greater status symbols, and base materialism. We focus our attention purely on the business of _getting_ - paying little or no attention to what we are _giving away_ in the process. 
And so it goes from generation to generation, from society to society, and the baton of whatever panacea is in fad or fashion, whatever tasteless gruel is filling their bellies, the masses are placated, even while they watch their civilizations erode, eventually to the point of ashes, while chanting timeless phrases of "Burn down the mission!" "They had it coming!" or "Now things will be fair!" It is a constant litany of the excuse to destroy that which others created and left for their progeny to destroy. It was first recorded as chants as warnings in choruses in the Greek plays, and heard above the cacophony of traffic and ear bending and mind-numbing music at any protest march of today. Voices shouting. Voices chanting. Always the same chants, always the same trespasses, all giving way for Bread and Circuses. 
If that were all there was, I'd slit my wrists tomorrow. Man has not changed at all since time began and he will not change at all when time finishes. 
Knowing that could cause all of us to slide into the darkness of depression, of misery, and of the sheer hopelessness of it all&#8230; so we distract ourselves, to whatever degree we can tolerate, to whatever takes us away from that gloomy portrait of all that we are, all that we have done, and all that we hope to be. 
Perhaps. 
Some of us do not do that, but we are also firmly aware that others do. Our awareness of that truth and all that it entails does not at all dissuade us. In fact, we find the randomness and rarity of it all the more encouraging. We're not about numbers, in fanciful talk of quantity. We're all about quality. 
We know that among the masses a few will shine through, for no reason at all. There will be a few, a very few who will choose, and choose everything, differently. The are the very few exceptions to the rule. And it is for those, and those only, that we hold on, and for them we do what we do. No one else matters. 
We have to resign ourselves to the reality of it all, and find a reason to go on, to find a purpose in our lives, and the lives of a precious few, who we find among the muck, the misery, the *****graphy, and the graffiti. That's what we hold on to, and take it upon ourselves to protect all that is good and worthy for the next generation. 
For the next will need it to rebuild, too, so that their lives can be focused on passing along the little bit of wisdom Man has acquired over the millennia, all the beauty and purpose he has discovered, and each generation then will have a handful of people who will take that baton and protect it, as best they can, until such time as they find a willing taker with whom they can share all that the baton holds. If he cannot find someone to hand it to, he will bury it or hide it, knowing that at some future point someone will find it, and will understand its value, and it will go on. That, too, is a certainty. 
Every now and again we will find that person in history or in the present, that rogue individual, that rare exception to the rule, and all that we have done and all that we have learned will be guarded and treasured by him, until such time as he is no more. 
And that, as they say, makes all the difference, and more than enough to go on in happiness and peace.


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## Will_S (Jan 2, 2008)

The difference being that the technology and control now exist to find those who shine through and medicate or otherwise blunt them before they have a chance to make waves.


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## taltos (Feb 28, 2006)

I am concerned that soon many people will find out the true value of the Second Amendment as in protecting the people from their government.


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## sanfrantreat (Jan 12, 2008)

I just want to say what is in canada we ban certain fats (can't remember name) from fast foods and what not for our own good. We ban smoking in doors for our own good, soon in april they are banning the direct public view of tobaccana for our own good. They are thinking of banning smoking in public areas ie parks, sidewalks, soon we'll be sneaking puffs up north in a tent scowling around to see if the rangers are after us. And this is all for our own good! oh btw I dont find its for my own good rather in fact I find it detrimental to my own good, I like flavour put the fat back in.


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## Spect (Sep 19, 2007)

r-ice said:


> soon in april they are banning the direct public view of tobaccana for our own good.


I just noticed this first hand. I was in the airport on Friday looking for something to read. I couldn't find a damn thing so I though maybe I could stomach a copy of Cigar Aficionado if I could find it. When I did finally see it, it was just above the "Men's Magazines" next to the P0rn mags with one of those dark pieces of plastic covering all but it's title.


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## Aladdin Sane (Aug 25, 2006)

Land of the free????


The only politician who knows / respects the meaning of those words is Ron Paul.


Ron who???..........EXACTLY.....  

.....Back to your regulary scheduled program.....


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## Mark C (Sep 19, 2007)

A few hundred years ago when people got pissed in England, they hopped a boat and came over here.... where are we supposed to go now?


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## RETSF (Dec 7, 2006)

Mark C said:


> A few hundred years ago when people got pissed in England, they hopped a boat and came over here.... where are we supposed to go now?


SPACE......THE NEW FRONTIER :gn


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## catfish (Jan 31, 2007)

What bothers me on top of loosing the freedoms is that nobody seems to see what I see and nobody cares.


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## RETSF (Dec 7, 2006)

catfish said:


> What bothers me on top of loosing the freedoms is that nobody seems to see what I see and nobody cares.


See "*Panem et Circenses" *above


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## sanfrantreat (Jan 12, 2008)

catfish said:


> What bothers me on top of loosing the freedoms is that nobody seems to see what I see and nobody cares.


thats because every statement is followed by "for your own good.."


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## Dr_Trac (Nov 8, 2006)

Mark C said:


> A few hundred years ago when people got pissed in England, they hopped a boat and came over here.... where are we supposed to go now?


Canada!


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## borndead1 (Oct 21, 2006)

Aladdin Sane said:


> Land of the free????
> 
> .....Back to your regulary scheduled *programming*.....


That's the way I see it anyway.

Want change? Vote for a third party. Any party other than Dem or Rep. You can flip a coin 2,000 times and you will never get anything other than heads or tails.


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## Mark C (Sep 19, 2007)

Dr_Trac said:


> Canada!


I was in Toronto right after the '04 Presidential election here in the US. I heard several commercials on the radio from lawyers and other companies offering to help US citizens who wanted to emmigrate to Canada. I thought that was a little funny, wonder if anybody actually did?

Lately I've been saying that if Hillary wins it's time to look for island real estate in the Caribbean and an engineering job with a rum producer.


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## catfish (Jan 31, 2007)

Mark C said:


> I was in Toronto right after the '04 Presidential election here in the US. I heard several commercials on the radio from lawyers and other companies offering to help US citizens who wanted to emmigrate to Canada. I thought that was a little funny, wonder if anybody actually did?
> 
> Lately I've been saying that if Hillary wins it's time to look for island real estate in the Caribbean and an engineering job with a rum producer.


 Rum producer? I'm looking for a job as a rum TASTER.


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## fizguy (Jul 26, 2006)

I was listening to the radio on the way to work yesterday and there was an ad for the Maryland CHIP program.

This is a paraphrase, but pretty close to a direct quote:

"MCHIP will help keep our children from using tobacco and help adults quit."

I was yelling at the radio, "what if we don't WANT to quit?" I was so angry!


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## RedRockCola (Jan 29, 2008)

*Its all a game of power... make the people dependant on the government to make your decisions for you and when the time comes to decide between that government or make your own way the people will never consider the option of freedom! Just look at Russia. The "People's Public of Russia" had so conditioned its citizens to the idea that they had no choice and no options but to do things they way they were told when they actually started to HAVE choices in how to live life they didn't know what to do with that choice. *

*We had a Russian Student in our highschool that transfered here for a year. I've never seen someone's eyes so wide as the time we took him to walmart. He couldn't wrap his mind around the fact that there was more than one type of toothpaste, more than one type of spaghetti sauce... he didn't know what to do with his choices because he had never been afforded any choice at all!*

*THAT is the direction that we are headed as a nation if we continue to allow Mother Government to tell us when where how and why we have to do things! Its all started with the little things like safety regulations and smoking bans. Before long its where we can work and what we can drive. *

*"Let me see your papers... Where are your PAPERS?!" Get used to hearing it if we don't take our government back.*


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## Corona Gigante-cl (Sep 8, 2005)

It seems to me that there's a lot more freedom, and a quite bit more justice, around now than there was forty years ago. I guess it depends on your perspective. Just my $0.02.


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## Infin1ty (May 12, 2007)

catfish said:


> I just scanned over the titles of the threads in this section, the first thing that poped into my mind was what the heck is happening to our freedoms. Democrat, Republican I wouldn't give a plug nickel for any of these crooks. Someday all americans are going to wake up and have a realization that we now live in the book "1984" and we will have nobody to blame but ourselves.


Great reference, I love that book!


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## c2000 (Oct 16, 2003)

fizguy said:


> I was listening to the radio on the way to work yesterday and there was an ad for the Maryland CHIP program.
> 
> This is a paraphrase, but pretty close to a direct quote:
> 
> ...


 It is something,,it is assumed that anyone who smokes wants in the worst way to quit but just can't..

Jerry in Minnesota.


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## jafount (Jan 16, 2008)

taltos said:


> I am concerned that soon many people will find out the true value of the Second Amendment as in protecting the people from their government.


I'm more worried that we WON'T have the chance to find out!



Aladdin Sane said:


> Land of the free????
> 
> The only politician who knows / respects the meaning of those words is Ron Paul.
> 
> ...


Amen Brother.....amen.



Mark C said:


> A few hundred years ago when people got pissed in England, they hopped a boat and came over here.... where are we supposed to go now?


Take this mother effer back!



borndead1 said:


> That's the way I see it anyway.
> 
> Want change? Vote for a third party. Any party other than Dem or Rep. You can flip a coin 2,000 times and you will never get anything other than heads or tails.


Again....AMEN!


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## Mark C (Sep 19, 2007)

catfish said:


> Rum producer? I'm looking for a job as a rum TASTER.


I've already got that job, I just can't find anyone who thinks I deserve a salary for my efforts 



Corona Gigante said:


> It seems to me that there's a lot more freedom, and a quite bit more justice, around now than there was forty years ago. I guess it depends on your perspective. Just my $0.02.


That may be true, but it seems to me there's a lot LESS freedom than there was *5* yrs ago.

I figure it's a problem related to the basic principles in the Constitution. If everything is allowed except what is expressly forbidden, then lawmakers have nothing to do except find new things to forbid in order to justify their jobs. The 'professional politician' is the downfall of democracy.



jafount said:


> Take this mother effer back!


Nice, is that really necessary? Go ahead and vote for Ron Paul. You've got as much chance electing Mickey Mouse as you do that clown, Mickey might even have an edge. Even if he DID get elected, you'd have to find a few hundred other clowns to fill in Congress or nothing productive would ever get done. There's a strong difference between idealism and realism.


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## muziq (Mar 14, 2005)

Oh my God, it appears I stumbled into the Dystopic Malcontents room. Sorry, excuse me...I was looking for Abuse.

:r


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## jafount (Jan 16, 2008)

Mark C said:


> Nice, is that really nececsary? Go ahead and vote for Ron Paul. You've got as much chance electing Mickey Mouse as you do that clown, Mickey might even have an edge. Even if he DID get elected, you'd have to find a few hundred other clowns to fill in Congress or nothing productive would ever get done. There's a strong difference between idealism and realism.


Is what really necessary? Change is slow to happen. If you're just going to throw your hands in the air and act as if one change at a time is insignificant, then your just adding to the problem.

If Ron Paul (or any third party candidate) would get elected, I believe it would send a message to the American people that their vote really does count. It would also send a message to the American two party joke of a system that we're all tired of the status quo.

Feel free to continue to be apathetic, but don't complain when things get worse. Even anti smoking laws didnt happen over night. There was a long progression of change that was started by some idealistic person and others eventually bought in.

Finally, by "take this mother effer back" I'm being literal. As another poster already stated, it may just come to having to actually exercise the second amendment. My biggest fear are the volume of people out there who don't have the stones to effect a change.


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## Mark C (Sep 19, 2007)

jafount said:


> If you're just going to throw your hands in the air and act as if one change at a time is insignificant, then your just adding to the problem.
> 
> If Ron Paul (or any third party candidate) would get elected, I believe it would send a message to the American people that their vote really does count. It would also send a message to the American two party joke of a system that we're all tired of the status quo.


At the rate the 'third party' is gaining votes, my grandchildren may never see change, and I'm only 26. Besides, starting at the top won't work. The 3rd parties need to gain a stronger presence in the lower levels of government, and in Congress, and then move on to the Presidency. They need something to show legitimacy before going for the top spot, without a grass-roots support system, they haven't got a prayer. I like the idea of a viable 3rd party, but until it becomes anywhere close to a reality, I'll stick to choosing the lesser of two evils.



> Finally, by "take this mother effer back" I'm being literal. As another poster already stated, it may just come to having to actually exercise the second amendment. My biggest fear are the volume of people out there who don't have the stones to effect a change.


The second ammendment ain't gonna help us take the country back, it would have to be a military coupe, rather than a citizen's uprising. I suppose it's possible, but the top generals are all political appointees. And even then we tried the Civil War thing awhile back, didn't go so well.

I'm all for change, but gradually pissing away a vote for the next hundred years isn't going to cut it. Something big needs to happen. I don't know what that is, or how to make it happen, but I don't believe the current 3rd party approach is the right one.


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## jafount (Jan 16, 2008)

Mark C said:


> At the rate the 'third party' is gaining votes, my grandchildren may never see change, and I'm only 26. Besides, starting at the top won't work. The 3rd parties need to gain a stronger presence in the lower levels of government, and in Congress, and then move on to the Presidency. They need something to show legitimacy before going for the top spot, without a grass-roots support system, they haven't got a prayer. I like the idea of a viable 3rd party, but until it becomes anywhere close to a reality, I'll stick to choosing the lesser of two evils.


Yeah but I just have a hard time casting my vote for this:


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## Pendaboot (Jan 2, 2008)

Things are really hopeless if those who want change will not vote for it because they feel helpless or hopeless. Better to light one candle than to curse the darkness. Make fun or Ron Paul all you want. Me, I go the opposite way. I usually refuse to vote because no candidate deserves my vote. I rather like being able to say that I did not vote for the fool who got elected. There are actually fools who feel that there was a difference between Gore and Bush. I am coming out of the woodwork to vote for paul, not because I think he will win, but because, for the first time in a long while, he is a presidential candidate that I can vote for and not feel ashamed.

He may be wrong on half the issues, but he is right on the other half. *HALF!! *That's a lot more than the other power mad sociopaths! Half looks good when the choices are Hillary or Obama against Romney or McCain, three power mad crooks. If you disagree, answer me one question: name one thing your guy actually believes in? *Just ONE!*


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## borndead1 (Oct 21, 2006)

Mark C said:


> I like the idea of a viable 3rd party, but until it becomes anywhere close to a reality, *I'll stick to choosing the lesser of two evils.*
> I'm all for change, but gradually *pissing away a vote *for the next hundred years isn't going to cut it. Something big needs to happen. I don't know what that is, or how to make it happen, but I don't believe the current 3rd party approach is the right one.


In my humble opinion, it is this type of attitude that guarantees the continuation of the status quo bullshit. How are you pissing away your vote? I think you are pissing away your vote MORE by buying into the lie of the 2 party system and the whole "lesser of 2 evils" idea. I make my vote count by voting _against_ BOTH evils. Every time.


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## Namerifrats (Jan 24, 2008)

Every year more laws, more bans, more control. Firearms is also a big interest of mine. You've constantly got some slimey politician after your guns. We live in a society now that grants criminals more rights that law abiding citizens. Everybody think they can sure everybody for discrimination, negligence, or anything as long as it's not their fault. Nobody is held accountable for anything. The justice system is a joke all together. Free country where you are taxed for everything from every angle. The state of North Carolina is one of the biggest taxation states I know of. Taxes and fee's at every turn. My wife and I bought 2 new vehicles in Florida, and had to pay NC sales tax, now how the hell does that work. We pay one of the highest gas taxes in the country, income tax, vehicle and property tax, sales tax, fee's out the ass for BS like inspection. You never "own" anything. Work your whole life to pay off your home and your property, but you're taxed eternaly and the government will steal your stuff if you don't pay the tax. Our country is sowly working it's way into it's own demise. We have our troops scattered all over the world, forcing our ways on the middle east. Those people hate us, they don't care for our way of life, so why should we waste our troops lives and tax money on them when they would just as soon stab us in the back. You can also thank that crap for oil prices going through the roof. We're slowly turning all these other powerful nations against us and while it's true we have a strong army, we can't fight the world and I hate to say, but piss off China, Russia, or their allies and they'll roll in here and royaly kick us in the ass. They both have the shear numbers in man power alone to put a serious hurting on us. We've messed around and allowed more tha half of our jobs to go over seas, China pratically owns the US finacially. I may just be "over ranting", but personally, I've been looking elsewhere for a place to live.


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## dennis569 (Jan 16, 2007)

Been looking at other places to live (retire).
Belize is looking good.
Do they grow tobacco there?


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## Namerifrats (Jan 24, 2008)

I was eyeballing something in the central america / carribean, or maybe even Austrailia or New Zealand. Hardly ever hear much about those places. Hell, maybe even Cuba....lol, in 20 years that what this place will most likely be like anyway.


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## Smoked (Apr 12, 2007)

I don't really pay much attention to the elections because I am not allowed to vote. However, this Ron Paul guy seems like the best candidate that I have ever seen. It's a shame that he doesn't stand a chance.


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## smokering10 (Feb 26, 2008)

catfish said:


> I just scanned over the titles of the threads in this section, the first thing that poped into my mind was what the heck is happening to our freedoms. Democrat, Republican I wouldn't give a plug nickel for any of these crooks. Someday all americans are going to wake up and have a realization that we now live in the book "1984" and we will have nobody to blame but ourselves.


the only group i can say that believes in personal freedom has and is conservatives. we the few, meaning anybody how believes in personal liberty, see these sheeple who follow blindly and vomit. these politicans have become complacent with us the people and have made more power for themselves. they target certain sub groups that they can extort money out because they say its for the whole, its blatent communism. we in a sense are not the America of our parents or grandparents America. we got to stop voting these hacks in for office that stand for nothing with a fluffy speech or those will tax us to death.


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