# Moonshine question



## pdisme

So I was flipping channels yesterday and came across some documentary-style show about moonshine. I watched because I like shows about brewing beer, distilling spirits, etc. but what caught my attention is something one of the guys said as they're loading gallon water jugs of the stuff into the back of a pickup truck; he mentioned 'these babies are worth $100/each.' I started digging around online and found similar references to these prices. Here's a price list from just last November on a site that sells stills:



> Honey shine = $200 per gallon
> 
> Agave = $180 per gallon
> Blackberrry brandy = $160 per gallon
> Blueberry brandy = $160 per gallon
> 
> Strawberry brandy = $160 per gallon
> Rye whiskey = $80 to $120 per gallon
> 
> Apple brandy = $60 to $120 per gallon
> Rum =$70 to $120 per gallon
> 
> Peach brandy = $60 to $120 per gallon
> Corn whiskey = $45 to $120 per gallon


This got me curious about why it would be worth that much? I can buy a gallon of legal high quality rum for a lot less than $120; why would anyone want to buy a water jug of rum made in someone's back yard in equipment of questionable construction/materials? I don't drink the other types of alcohol listed but pretty sure brandy can be had for less than those prices.


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## Damselnotindistress

I'm not an expert on Moonshine (despite being a Kentucky native), but I can comment on homemade wine I had while at Fort Dix in 1983... :shocked: stuff wasn't playin' as far as true POTENCY!!!


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## pdisme

Hmm, but when it gets that high in alcohol content I don't think you can really taste anything? And if that's the case, I can buy a gallon of Everclear 151 proof for $50 legally. Hell in New Orleans you can buy a bottle of 190 proof lol.


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## beercritic

Hand crafted stuff can be amazing. Ever try home made beer? If the brewer knows his stuff (and they generally do), it beats hell out of store bought. Pssst... words to the wise; get a taste before buying, and ask 'em for some "Strawberry Panty Dropper."

I judge. I know.


Joe


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## smburnette

Genuine Appalachian Kentucky moonshine costs 15 dollars per quart. The flavored variety(apple pie, blueberry cobbler, peach cobbler, etc) is 15 dollars per pint... I am right in the heart of it and can tell you that while entertaining, that show is far from the truth. It makes us look like ******* idiots..


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## pdisme

Well on the plus side, the show was in Virginia I think. 

That's interesting though; if there's something inherently better about this stuff, I don't understand why legal distilleries aren't lining up to produce it? I read there's only a few places that legally produce 'white whiskey'.


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## Scott W.

I make apple pie moonshine at home using ever clear, apple cider,apple juice, cinnamon and whipped cream vodka. It's 60 proof and I can make 2 gallons for 60 bucks. It's like when that one dude cut the shine with apple juice. 2 pints and your good.


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## smburnette

An interesting side note. Charred shine is normally faked most of the time. Put a tablespoon of Pepsi in a quart of clear shine and it will sell as aged, charred shine to the tourists for a higher price.


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## smburnette

scottw said:


> I make apple pie moonshine at home using ever clear, apple cider,apple juice, cinnamon and whipped cream vodka. It's 60 proof and I can make 2 gallons for 60 bucks. It's like when that one dude cut the shine with apple juice. 2 pints and your good.


Replace the apple with peach juice, jar with half a peach, and you have peach cobbler..


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## Scott W.

smburnette said:


> Replace the apple with peach juice, jar with half a peach, and you have peach cobbler..


I'll try that next. My brother and our wives drank a gallon of shine in one night, good stuff.


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## AStateJB

pdisme said:


> Hmm, but when it gets that high in alcohol content I don't think you can really taste anything? And if that's the case, I can buy a gallon of Everclear 151 proof for $50 legally. Hell in New Orleans you can buy a bottle of 190 proof lol.


Believe it or not... true moonshine when made correctly is INCREDIBLY smooth! I've had homemade apple pie moonshine that was somewhere in the neighborhood of 130 proof and I could easily drink it straight. No burn, no rubbing alcohol flavor... just sweet apple pie goodness!


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## pdisme

Interesting; sounds like there's more to it than meets the eye in that case. And I guess the illegal aspect is simply the proof is too high to sell and/or liquor license costs are too high or impossible to obtain in the state in question?


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## Scott W.

The illegal aspect is the fact that the moonshiners do not pay taxes on the liquor they sell nor to they conform to the regulations other distillers do. The liquid itself is not illegal in any way.


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## Beer Alchemist

scottw said:


> The illegal aspect is the fact that the moonshiners do not pay taxes on the liquor they sell nor to they conform to the regulations other distillers do. The liquid itself is not illegal in any way.


And the slew of regulations that are broken. Of course like you said, that is all about the protection of tax revenue. What makes me laugh is my homebrew shop, like many, sell distillation equipment along with books on it and all the ingredients, but of course it's only for water distillation. I still haven't figured out what one would need turbo yeast and an oak barrel for water distillation though.

I don't see why the price would be so high other than the illegal aspect of it. Then it gets into supply/demand. Perhaps those are prices in dry counties.


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## pdisme

Beer Alchemist said:


> I don't see why the price would be so high other than the illegal aspect of it. Then it gets into supply/demand. Perhaps those are prices in dry counties.


That's what I don't understand. If they're avoiding taxes and licensing, their costs are lower than legit distilleries. I can of course see charging more for a better product, and I'm sure there exists illegally produced moonshine that is very high in quality and worth some premium, but why would something made clandestinely, in questionable equipment and without the added expense of aging, tax, licenses, etc. also be worth five to ten times what legal booze of the same type costs?


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## David_ESM

scottw said:


> I make apple pie moonshine at home using ever clear, apple cider,apple juice, cinnamon and whipped cream vodka. It's 60 proof and I can make 2 gallons for 60 bucks. It's like when that one dude cut the shine with apple juice. 2 pints and your good.


You're not making shine... You are making a mixed alcoholic beverage... However it sounds delicious :wink:

Anyways, comparing the shine to normal over the counter booze isn't apples to apples since you are talking about a LARGE proof difference.

If you did compare it to everclear, a gallon of 151 everclear would run me $100 here in Washington anyways...


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## pdisme

David_ESM said:


> If you did compare it to everclear, a gallon of 151 everclear would run me $100 here in Washington anyways...


I made five gallons of 'punch' for new years eve and had to buy two gallons of everclear; here in Florida it's about $50/gallon equivalent.


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## David_ESM

I wish...


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## jks067

I know this is an old topic but I just wanted to interject that moonshine made correctly is higher in purity and proof than any commercial alcohol. Homemade ethanol has far less methanol and fusel alcohols than a similar product that you can obtain from a commercial distiller. The home distiller has more control over the foreshots, heads, hearts, feints and tails of their distillation run mainly because the scale of the process is small and care is taken to make a superior product. I use a pot still to run 55 proof low wines then a reflux column to distill a product that comes off at ~96% alcohol, which is the percentage of purity that ethanol reaches azeotrope and can go no higher. I then have to cut this with distilled water to store it as it will melt plastic. If I want to transfer a flavor into my spirit I use the pot still to do a classic whiskey or bourbon run. It goes back to the saying, "If you want something done right, it's best to do it yourself.".


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## back woods

Scott W. said:


> I make apple pie moonshine at home using ever clear, apple cider,apple juice, cinnamon and whipped cream vodka. It's 60 proof and I can make 2 gallons for 60 bucks. It's like when that one dude cut the shine with apple juice. 2 pints and your good.


 Well this is the problem, you SIR do not make moonshine YOU MAKE A MIX DRINK. I buy my corn I malt it, spend the time it takes to ferment it take the time it takes to cook it take a chance on going to jail. Take pride in my product. Will put it up to the taste of any product on the market. I do not have the money that it takes such as $50000 for all the permits $250000 to $400000 for your business then $30 per gal federal taxes then state taxes. Not to count the cost of material. So when you say you make apple pie moonshine at home I laugh. YOU KNOW NOTHING ABOUT MOONSHINE. 
But I guess people that you sell your ever clear to think that you are a moonshiner . You would not make a pimple on a moonshiners A--

THANKS

BACK WOODS


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## TreySC

back woods said:


> Well this is the problem, you SIR do not make moonshine YOU MAKE A MIX DRINK. I buy my corn I malt it, spend the time it takes to ferment it take the time it takes to cook it take a chance on going to jail. Take pride in my product. Will put it up to the taste of any product on the market. I do not have the money that it takes such as $50000 for all the permits $250000 to $400000 for your business then $30 per gal federal taxes then state taxes. Not to count the cost of material. So when you say you make apple pie moonshine at home I laugh. YOU KNOW NOTHING ABOUT MOONSHINE.
> But I guess people that you sell your ever clear to think that you are a moonshiner . You would not make a pimple on a moonshiners A--
> 
> THANKS
> 
> BACK WOODS


Easy big guy. Besides this being a 2 year old thread, I don't think he ever said he sold it.


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## HIM

What a jackass


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## piperdown

back woods said:


> Well this is the problem, you SIR do not make moonshine YOU MAKE A MIX DRINK. I buy my corn I malt it, spend the time it takes to ferment it take the time it takes to cook it take a chance on going to jail. Take pride in my product. Will put it up to the taste of any product on the market. I do not have the money that it takes such as $50000 for all the permits $250000 to $400000 for your business then $30 per gal federal taxes then state taxes. Not to count the cost of material. So when you say you make apple pie moonshine at home I laugh. YOU KNOW NOTHING ABOUT MOONSHINE.
> But I guess people that you sell your ever clear to think that you are a moonshiner . You would not make a pimple on a moonshiners A--
> 
> THANKS
> 
> BACK WOODS


You join, find an old thread and post this up?
If you decide to stick around, take some time to look around the forum and see how we interact with each other. Absolutely no call for ^^^ type of post.


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## Rock31

back woods said:


> Well this is the problem, you SIR do not make moonshine YOU MAKE A MIX DRINK. I buy my corn I malt it, spend the time it takes to ferment it take the time it takes to cook it take a chance on going to jail. Take pride in my product. Will put it up to the taste of any product on the market. I do not have the money that it takes such as $50000 for all the permits $250000 to $400000 for your business then $30 per gal federal taxes then state taxes. Not to count the cost of material. So when you say you make apple pie moonshine at home I laugh. YOU KNOW NOTHING ABOUT MOONSHINE.
> But I guess people that you sell your ever clear to think that you are a moonshiner . You would not make a pimple on a moonshiners A--
> 
> THANKS
> 
> BACK WOODS


relax buddy...


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## SeanGAR

back woods said:


> I buy my corn ...


Well, there is your first problem. You're on the grid. You have money, and you buy things.

Strike, strike, strike, you're out.

I use maize seeds passed generation to generation from the Mayan side of my family. I estimate the line is 1000 years old. We collect seeds each year to continue the line.

I grow my own corn partnering with my trusty mule, Scruffy.

Scruffy and I plow 4 acres of dry lowland and we fertilize using manure and .. stuff I steal from a neighbor's outhouse.

We grow the corn. We harvest and dry the corn. We malt and mash the corn. We distill the sour corn mash using a yeast and lactic cultures originally isolated from my great grand mammy's underwear and a pimple on my great, great grandpappy's ass at his funeral.

Buy .... buy ... nobody who is a true moonshiner BUYS corn. You probably BUY turbo yeast. Sigh.

You, sir, do not make TRUE shine and I'm shocked and appalled at your arrogance. You probably run a pot still with thumper keg. I have a 100-year old continuous Coffey still originally stolen from a distillery in Guyana by my great uncle Pirate Ronnie the Red. Works great. We finish with a 10 meter column still and age in charred American Oak barrels.

I do quality control using GCMS and LCMS with FTIR for quick checks. I keep the fusel alcohols under 1ppb, total.

THAT is what a shiner does, son.


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## Tobias Lutz

SeanGAR said:


> Well, there is your first problem. You're on the grid. You have money, and you buy things.
> 
> Strike, strike, strike, you're out.
> 
> I use maize seeds passed generation to generation from the Mayan side of my family. I estimate the line is 1000 years old. We collect seeds each year to continue the line.
> 
> I grow my own corn partnering with my trusty mule, Scruffy.
> 
> Scruffy and I plow 4 acres of dry lowland and we fertilize using manure and .. stuff I steal from a neighbor's outhouse.
> 
> We grow the corn. We harvest and dry the corn. We malt and mash the corn. We distill the sour corn mash using a yeast and lactic cultures originally isolated from my great grand mammy's underwear and a pimple on my great, great grandpappy's ass at his funeral.
> 
> Buy .... buy ... nobody who is a true moonshiner BUYS corn. You probably BUY turbo yeast. Sigh.
> 
> You, sir, do not make TRUE shine and I'm shocked and appalled at your arrogance. You probably run a pot still with thumper keg. I have a 100-year old continuous Coffey still originally stolen from a distillery in Guyana by my great uncle Pirate Ronnie the Red. Works great. We finish with a 10 meter column still and age in charred American Oak barrels.
> 
> I do quality control using GCMS and LCMS with FTIR for quick checks. I keep the fusel alcohols under 1ppb, total.
> 
> THAT is what a shiner does, son.


:/thread: Well played, Sir!


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