# Flavor profiles of Cubans vs non-Cubans



## CBR (Mar 31, 2010)

After over 10 years of smoking cigars believe it or not I haven't really smoked anything but Cubans. Living in canada and the popularity of Cubans just happened to dictate the circumstances. Anyways, im getting ready for my next order and want to know how non-Cubans differ in terms of palate. Do lean more towards certain flavors and away from others? In a blind taste test could the pedigree be differentiated?


----------



## BMack (Dec 8, 2010)

NC's tend to be stronger and fuller in my experience. Everything varies by region and blend.


----------



## asmartbull (Aug 16, 2009)

Given that Boli and Party CC's are about as strong as Cubans get,
it is pretty easy to tell the difference. Most NC's will be bolder and their spice tend to come across as pepper. Again, I hate speaking is such broad strokes. There are 1000's of nc's so it is likely to find more dislikes than likes....One nice think, is that there is a consensus of NC's that are at the top of the food chain. Try the Anejo and Padrons.


----------



## CBR (Mar 31, 2010)

Very helpful! Thanks. I'll take this into consideration as I peruse the reviews for NCs.


----------



## Cigary (Oct 19, 2007)

Asmartbull is pretty accurate here since he's got an advanced degree in Cigarology.


----------



## asmartbull (Aug 16, 2009)

Cigary said:


> Asmartbull is pretty accurate here since he's got an advanced degree in Cigarology.


I just think...."What would Gary say"

and divide by 2....:smoke2:


----------



## CBR (Mar 31, 2010)

So one of the NC cigars that seems to consistently be held in high regard is the Opus X. One problem is I can't seem to find any retailers that sell it (I'm used to frequenting Cuban e-tailers and their NC selection is pretty small). 

I guess the question is now where can I find these sticks online? (pls don't say eBay haha!)


----------



## sengjc (Nov 15, 2010)

CBR said:


> So one of the NC cigars that seems to consistently be held in high regard is the Opus X. One problem is I can't seem to find any retailers that sell it (I'm used to frequenting Cuban e-tailers and their NC selection is pretty small).
> 
> I guess the question is now where can I find these sticks online? (pls don't say eBay haha!)


Here are some US retailers that I use as they ship internationally:
Discount Cigars and Humidors, Best Cigar Prices Online! | Atlantic Cigar Company
Cigars, Humidors - ***************.com
Cheap Humidors Cigar Humidor Cigar Accessories CheapHumidors.com

Another online retailer that I have never used before but ships overseas:
Cigars - Humidors - Cigar Accessories | Famous Smoke Shop


----------



## Bunker (Jul 20, 2010)

For Opus try:

Fuente Cigars - Tampa Sweethearts Cigar Company - Don Carlos Cigars Fuente Hemingway Cigars Short Story Montesino Cigars Flor De Ybor City Cigars Casa Cuba Cigars Tampa Bay Cigars Cuban Cigars - you may have to call for Opus

www.ovtc.com - what they have listed is not always in stock


----------



## Herf N Turf (Dec 31, 2008)

Honestly, Sor, I think finding an Opus X in Thailand is going to be a little like trying to find a needle in a needle stack. There are no fair prices for Opus on the internet and those that are anywhere close to fair, will hammer you on shipping. Being in Bangkok, you might get lucky and find a Fuente account. That would be your best bet.

There are other cigars out there, which are at least as good as what currently goes for Opus X. Fuente Hemingway maduros and Anejos are outstanding cigars, as well as Ashton VSG. Padron's Anniversary series cigars are (while nothing like Opus), also very good, flavorsome and complex smokes, more readily acquired than Opus.

Trying to compare Cubans to non-Cubans is a dicey enterprise. The only real thing they have in common is that both are made of rolled up, rotten tobacco leaves and fire is applied. Cuban soil is simply so unique and renders such a unique product profile, that it cannot be replicated, even under the most strict manipulation.


----------



## ssutton219 (Apr 17, 2007)

Personally I dont think you can compare the two...

I believe both have their strong points...

One of my favorite threads---

http://www.cigarforums.net/forums/vb/habanos-discussion/140023-great-fredster-blind-taste-test.html

good read...ignore the personal bs and the reviews and cigars are interesting..

Good Luck

Shawn


----------



## ouirknotamuzd (Jan 29, 2011)

CBR said:


> So one of the NC cigars that seems to consistently be held in high regard is the Opus X. One problem is I can't seem to find any retailers that sell it (I'm used to frequenting Cuban e-tailers and their NC selection is pretty small).
> 
> I guess the question is now where can I find these sticks online? (pls don't say eBay haha!)


eBay(haha!)


----------



## Herf N Turf (Dec 31, 2008)

ssutton219 said:


> One of my favorite threads---
> 
> http://www.cigarforums.net/forums/vb/habanos-discussion/140023-great-fredster-blind-taste-test.html
> 
> ...


Indeed, that is one of the great, all-time threads ever produced here (there).

Unfortunately, the OP hasn't access to the Habanos forum,yet, but I suggest revisiting that link when you do!


----------



## fivespdcat (Nov 16, 2010)

Herf N Turf said:


> Indeed, that is one of the great, all-time threads ever produced here (there).
> 
> Unfortunately, the OP hasn't access to the Habanos forum,yet, but I suggest revisiting that link when you do!


I'm worn out after reading that thread....


----------



## lukesparksoff (Apr 21, 2010)

Wow ,when I first read this thread title ,I thought (here we go ). We have had many CC Vs NC threads here at Puff . I started out only smoking CC also (only because I thought it was prestigious,pretty dumb right) Bull and don was meticulously accurate with their answer. +1 LOL ,what they just said. I wouldn't go with the OpusX , unless you are willing to wait 6m- to a year for the cigar to rest.(Not many NC cigars can beat a OpusX after a year rest). The Anejo,and the padron ann. are ready to smoke now. i would add to the must try list is Paul Garmirian Symphony ,2007 Camacho liberty,and a Tatuaje Verocu (Red) Tubos . I think you will like them all,if not I will buy them off you LOL. Good luck in the world of NC cigars


----------



## CBR (Mar 31, 2010)

You guys are great! I am going to pick up a few samplers containing your recos and some others that sound interesting. I think I missed the boat somewhere so I do have to ask, why are Opus X so hard to find? I checked the review section of Puff and they are not discontinued. Is there a supply or production issue?


----------



## Melshiraki (Mar 21, 2011)

CC have a unique taste, but, ifnyounarenwilling to spend so much moneynon a boxnthat will surly have at least a handful of very bad constructed cigars, buy them. My experience in buying legitimate CC from high end tobacconists does not change the quality issue. I don't buy much CC anymore...more heartache and disappointment by wondering if the CC I light up will be good enough to smoke. I would say that one must expect 10% or more of a box to be unshakable!


----------



## Mante (Dec 25, 2009)

Melshiraki said:


> CC have a unique taste, but, ifnyounarenwilling to spend so much moneynon a boxnthat will surly have at least a handful of very bad constructed cigars, buy them. My experience in buying legitimate CC from high end tobacconists does not change the quality issue. I don't buy much CC anymore...more heartache and disappointment by wondering if the CC I light up will be good enough to smoke. I would say that one must expect 10% or more of a box to be unshakable!


In reply I can say only this :frusty::frusty::frusty: Lower your RH. Burn issues & plugging are a lot less common nowadays than you insinuate. Maybe you need to step back, read & learn a little more before making such profound statements here (A handful from a box equals 20%, not 10%). As far as price goes, most Cubans of a similar standard are as cheap as Non Cubans so that is an invalid argument as well. This train of thought should not be pursued in this thread though as it belongs in the Habanos forum or PM if you wish to debate it, see you in about 99 posts Bert.


----------



## sengjc (Nov 15, 2010)

Or you can invest in a draw poker like I have.

I really don't know why people still complain of plugged sticks anymore when there are implements out there that will alleviate this problem. :dunno:

In fact I purposely buy tightly rolled to plug sticks these days since I know the smoke will be longer, more even burning and exudes cooler smoke with more richness to it.

Plus I know for sure I am getting my money's worth in tobacco by weight. :mrgreen:


----------



## sengjc (Nov 15, 2010)

CBR said:


> You guys are great! I am going to pick up a few samplers containing your recos and some others that sound interesting. I think I missed the boat somewhere so I do have to ask, why are Opus X so hard to find? I checked the review section of Puff and they are not discontinued. Is there a supply or production issue?


Think of it as petrol. Americans love their Opus Xs and Padrons hence the supply issue. 

Which reminds me, if you want to try something else besides the Opus X, I would go for Padron Anniversaries which is another brand of the same echelon as the Opus X and easier to find.

Like you, I too have only started smoking non-Cubans in a big way not too long ago and prior to that, I have been smoking predominantly Cubans. Some of the better non-Cuban lines that appeal to me and my Cuban-centric taste are like Joya de Nicaragua Antano, Ashton VSG, Arturo Fuente Hemingways, Camacho Corojo and Oliva Serie V. These are widely available, easy to find and reasonably priced.

By the way, I am Malaysian but living in Australia. If you happen to fly down to Kuala Lumpur, check out the duty free shops in the Kuala Lumpur International Airport as they have Padron Anniversaries (1964s and 1926s) and Arturo Fuente Hemingways there that are very reasonably priced. There are quite a few cigar selling shops in there that carry different brands.

I don't recall seeing Opus Xs the last time I was there but they may have some now. Another thing they have lots of are Davidoffs even the really rare and exclusive lines that the US market does not get.


----------



## asmartbull (Aug 16, 2009)

Tashaz said:


> In reply I can say only this :frusty::frusty::frusty: Lower your RH. Burn issues & plugging are a lot less common nowadays than you insinuate. Maybe you need to step back, read & learn a little more before making such profound statements here (A handful from a box equals 20%, not 10%). As far as price goes, most Cubans of a similar standard are as cheap as Non Cubans so that is an invalid argument as well. This train of thought should not be pursued in this thread though as it belongs in the Habanos forum or PM if you wish to debate it, see you in about 99 posts Bert.


Warren
Bless your heart.....My BP is now again stable...........


----------



## Mante (Dec 25, 2009)

asmartbull said:


> Warren
> Bless your heart.....My BP is now again stable...........


Happy to be of service Al....... :yo:


----------



## Melshiraki (Mar 21, 2011)

asmartbull said:


> Warren
> Bless your heart.....My BP is now again stable...........


Plugging and burning issues are not due only to RH...they are mostly due to inexperienced bunchers who bunch too much tobacco in the area just beneath the bands. My NCN have no issues...only my CC. Pokers do not do then job...using a poker changes the tastes dramatically. See you in 98 posts.


----------



## sengjc (Nov 15, 2010)

Melshiraki said:


> ...Pokers do not do then job...using a poker changes the tastes dramatically...


It does, never noticed. Maybe I am still a noob as I can't tell the difference. 

Ignorance is bliss, I guess.


----------



## fivespdcat (Nov 16, 2010)

I've enjoyed the few CC's I've had, however I really enjoy the NC's I smoke too. As for matching up the flavor profiles, I find it very difficult. The last CC that I smoked, was great, but had a flavor profile that I have never had replicated in a non-CC. Plus a lot of guys that are into the Cubans, age them quite a bit, which really changes the game a lot. Most NCers just smoke em! I don't because I like the taste of a well rested stick. 

Alas, I'm probably not much help since I don't buy Cubans. And to be perfectly honest most people who do will not really even consider NC's. People who like Cubans, almost exclusively like Cubans (this is in my experience).


----------



## Melshiraki (Mar 21, 2011)

sengjc said:


> It does, never noticed. Maybe I am still a noob as I can't tell the difference.
> 
> Ignorance is bliss, I guess.


Try the old side by side taste test...one that is not plugged and the other that you used your poker to get a sufficient draw...same brand and size. You may be able to tell the difference then. But, I must say that I still use my poker to save the cigar instead of throwing it away.


----------



## CBR (Mar 31, 2010)

sengjc said:


> Another thing they have lots of are Davidoffs even the really rare and exclusive lines that the US market does not get.


On the topic of Davidoffs, who do they smoke? I may be a victim of marketig hype but these sticks seem to garner mostly positive reviews. I've had their pipe tobacco and wasn't impressed - wouldn't want to make the same mistake with their cigars


----------



## sengjc (Nov 15, 2010)

Melshiraki said:


> Try the old side by side taste test...one that is not plugged and the other that you used your poker to get a sufficient draw...same brand and size. You may be able to tell the difference then. But, I must say that I still use my poker to save the cigar instead of throwing it away.


I can agree with you that there will definitely be some difference. Most premium cigars are after all made by hand and rarely a perfect art.

Similarly like how an underfilled cigar can be toasty and harsh because of the faster combustion rate, I find well filled, almost plugged cigars have slower burn and the flavours are richer with more "sweetness". Some people like toasty and some people like "sweetness". I prefer "sweetness".

But that is just me, my taste and preference. Also it is because of this imperfection in cigars, I find cigar smoking has an added layer of intrigue making it a more interesting past time. A bit like life, sometimes you have a good run, sometimes you have a bad run but you rarely have a perfect run.

I try to concentrate on the positives the smoke can contribute rather than notice the negatives. I think this simple philosophy makes cigars more enjoyable. I guess at the end of the day, I am just happy to be able to enjoy my past time. 

And like you said, better to use the draw poker than throw it away. Cigars are expensive. Better not to waste them!


----------



## sengjc (Nov 15, 2010)

CBR said:


> On the topic of Davidoffs, who do they smoke? I may be a victim of marketig hype but these sticks seem to garner mostly positive reviews. I've had their pipe tobacco and wasn't impressed - wouldn't want to make the same mistake with their cigars


They are usually very well constructed and creamy. Flavours are smooth and usually mild but some lines can be strong flavoured and spicy like the Limited Editions.

Not my usual choice as they can be expensive but occasionally I do like to smoke a Davidoff as this brand is nostalgic to me being one of the first brands I smoked.

Also it is nice to have a break from all the full bodied cigars some times. For this I tend to go for the Special and Thousand Series.


----------



## asmartbull (Aug 16, 2009)

Melshiraki said:


> Plugging and burning issues are not due only to RH...they are mostly due to inexperienced bunchers who bunch too much tobacco in the area just beneath the bands. My NCN have no issues...only my CC. Pokers do not do then job...using a poker changes the tastes dramatically. See you in 98 posts.


 Bert
I could see you point if the only cc's you had smoked were from 00-02.
If your statments of plugged CC is from experience with other yrs, I believe
you to have storage issues..


----------



## Mante (Dec 25, 2009)

asmartbull said:


> Bert
> I could see you point if the only cc's you had smoked were from 00-02.
> If your statments of plugged CC is from experience with other yrs, I believe
> you to have storage issues..





> My experience in buying legitimate CC from high end tobacconists does not change the quality issue


My point exactly & confirmed. If the cigars are being bought from "High end" shops & smoked without sufficient adjustment to a suitable smoking RH then I can see the problem straight away.:mmph:


----------



## sengjc (Nov 15, 2010)

asmartbull said:


> Bert
> I could see you point if the only cc's you had smoked were from 00-02.
> If your statments of plugged CC is from experience with other yrs, I believe
> you to have storage issues..


What are you on about, Bull. Those were the best years :mrgreen:

By the way, CBR, do you keep your cigars in a humidor where you are at? I was wondering since Bangkok is always humid and all that, you might get away...


----------



## CBR (Mar 31, 2010)

When I was in Canada I used a coolidor with properly calibrated hygrometer. When I moved here I just brought it with me. I have noticed though that if I let my sponge dry out the humidity will drop to 58% or so, I am guessing because I have the air con running in the evening when I'm home. The one I really have trouble with is the temperature, it's sooo hot during the daytime when the air con is off.


----------



## asmartbull (Aug 16, 2009)

sengjc said:


> What are you on about, Bull. Those were the best years :mrgreen:
> 
> By the way, CBR, do you keep your cigars in a humidor where you are at? I was wondering since Bangkok is always humid and all that, you might get away...


 Seng, we all laugh, but as far as taste goes, they were very good yrs.
I just can't deal with 1 in 4 being tight on the draw...


----------



## bpegler (Mar 30, 2006)

CBR said:


> When I was in Canada I used a coolidor with properly calibrated hygrometer. When I moved here I just brought it with me. I have noticed though that if I let my sponge dry out the humidity will drop to 58% or so, I am guessing because I have the air con running in the evening when I'm home. The one I really have trouble with is the temperature, it's sooo hot during the daytime when the air con is off.


A sponge is not a great humidification device, go with beads or KL, or you really run the risk of mold. 
I don't has a wonderful opinion about which NCs to smoke, but I would like to mention that I haven't gone to DEFCON 5 about the absurd Newb over generalizations about Cubans.

Aren't you guys proud?


----------



## Mante (Dec 25, 2009)

bpegler said:


> I would like to mention that I haven't gone to DEFCON 5 about the absurd Newb over generalizations about Cubans.
> 
> Aren't you guys proud?


:clap2::dude::bowdown: Indeed!:r


----------



## rhetorik (Jun 6, 2011)

CC's to me have a pretty distinct smell, but I can't quite put my finger on what it is


----------



## Cigary (Oct 19, 2007)

rhetorik said:


> CC's to me have a pretty distinct smell, but I can't quite put my finger on what it is


It's that characteristic smell of 'cow$hit' that has been laying out in the hot sun for an entire afternoon...but a good rich potent smell.


----------



## bpegler (Mar 30, 2006)

Cigary said:


> It's that characteristic smell of 'cow$hit' that has been laying out in the hot sun for an entire afternoon...but a good rich potent smell.


Gary is, of course, correct. However the polite term for this is "barnyard".


----------



## sengjc (Nov 15, 2010)

CBR said:


> When I was in Canada I used a coolidor with properly calibrated hygrometer. When I moved here I just brought it with me. I have noticed though that if I let my sponge dry out the humidity will drop to 58% or so, I am guessing because I have the air con running in the evening when I'm home. The one I really have trouble with is the temperature, it's sooo hot during the daytime when the air con is off.


Hrmm...and turning the aircon on then makes the air dry...



asmartbull said:


> Seng, we all laugh, but as far as taste goes, they were very good yrs.
> I just can't deal with 1 in 4 being tight on the draw...


Hence the post regarding the draw poker and the ensuing discussion on its use.

To each his own, Bull. We all enjoy/smoke cigars slightly different to one another and what brings us together is that we enjoy smoking cigars. Don't worry about it.


----------



## Herf N Turf (Dec 31, 2008)

CBR said:


> When I was in Canada I used a coolidor with properly calibrated hygrometer. When I moved here I just brought it with me. I have noticed though that if I let my sponge dry out *the humidity will drop to 58% or so, *I am guessing because I have the air con running in the evening when I'm home. The one I really have trouble with is the temperature, it's sooo hot during the daytime when the air con is off.


58%??? Dear GOD! THat's the PERFECT RH for CUBANS!!!!!


----------



## CBR (Mar 31, 2010)

Herf N Turf said:


> 58%??? Dear GOD! THat's the PERFECT RH for CUBANS!!!!!


Curiously enough, should I keep NCs in a different humidor at a different RH? I always thought rolled up leaves would behave similarly with respect to RH regardless of pedigree or origin.


----------



## Goodkat (Sep 3, 2010)

CBR said:


> Curiously enough, should I keep NCs in a different humidor at a different RH? I always thought rolled up leaves would behave similarly with respect to RH regardless of pedigree or origin.


Apparently Habanos need their own humi ~60 RH. I'm not sure what the scientific reason for that is, but it is the consensus of practically all the experts here.


----------



## sengjc (Nov 15, 2010)

Goodkat said:


> Apparently Habanos need their own humi ~60 RH. I'm not sure what the scientific reason for that is, but it is the consensus of practically all the experts here.


Not sure if this is scientific:

Supposedly the ideal storage condition for CCs is basically to replicate the Cuban environment. Not sure what that is though but I am guessing about 60% RH.


----------



## Mante (Dec 25, 2009)

You can store habanos at any level you like but to age them or indeed smoke them at their best low sixties or high fifties are required. Storing at 68-70 is fine if that is what you want to do but they will need to rest at less than 65 to become smokable "At their best" for three months at least. YMMV.

This is way off topic to the OP's train of thought methinks. :focus:


----------



## asmartbull (Aug 16, 2009)

Tashaz said:


> You can store habanos at any level you like but to age them or indeed smoke them at their best low sixties or high fifties are required. Storing at 68-70 is fine if that is what you want to do but they will need to rest at less than 65 to become smokable "At their best" for three months at least. YMMV.
> 
> This is way off topic to the OP's train of thought methinks. :focus:


Give this man a cigar.....


----------



## BMack (Dec 8, 2010)

Goodkat said:


> Apparently Habanos need their own humi ~60 RH. I'm not sure what the scientific reason for that is, but it is the consensus of practically all the experts here.


I smoke NC or CC at about 62% RH. There are a couple specific cigars that smoke better at about 65-68% RH... but it all boils down to personal preference.

I started at 75%, went to 70% pretty quickly then I let everything trickle down to 62%. I didn't notice any difference between 62% to high 50s so I stuck with 62%.


----------



## CBR (Mar 31, 2010)

asmartbull said:


> Give this man a cigar.....


Just as soon as my NC order arrives!

Btw how's this sound for an order, a couple sticks of each: A Fuente Hemingways, Ashton VSG and ESG, and Padron 1964 and 1926.


----------



## p2min-cl (May 14, 2007)

CBR said:


> Just as soon as my NC order arrives!
> 
> Btw how's this sound for an order, a couple sticks of each: A Fuente Hemingways, Ashton VSG and ESG, and Padron 1964 and 1926.


You should be well pleased.


----------

