# Sudden RH Spikes In Wineador



## ProjectSunfire (Mar 30, 2011)

I have a Newair 280 with about 3 pounds of HF 65% beads spread throughout the 5 drawers. For almost 9 months I have had rock solid numbers with the RH & temps, even during the brutal Florida summer. Difference from top to bottom was never more than 1-2%, which always amazed me. But in the last 2 weeks the RH has suddenly started spiking uncontrollably. No matter what I try I can't get it back to 65% and am getting differences as much as 7% from the bottom to middle/top...with RH going over 70% a few times. If I crank the temp way down I can get the top down to 65% but then the bottom dips below 60%. I'm just scratching my head here...

Does anyone have any idea what is going on here??


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## Lapithicus (May 25, 2014)

Did anything change? Did you put a bunch more cigars in? Add a fan? or more likely, remove a fan? Any change in the ambient temperature of the room?


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## ProjectSunfire (Mar 30, 2011)

Lapithicus said:


> Did anything change? Did you put a bunch more cigars in? Add a fan? or more likely, remove a fan? Any change in the ambient temperature of the room?


no more or less cigars. it has been filled to capacity since day 1. did not add or remove a fan. ambient temp of the room basically stays the same year round.


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## jp1979 (Sep 12, 2013)

what kind of hygros do you have? maybe check them to see if they have gone out of whack


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## ProjectSunfire (Mar 30, 2011)

jp1979 said:


> what kind of hygros do you have? maybe check them to see if they have gone out of whack


I have calibrated humi-care digitals. I took them out of the wineador and put them in another humi with a similar setup and after a few hours all were reading 68/66...so its not the hygrometers. I put them back in the wineador this morning and it was reading 72%...ok now I'm getting concerned.

I am wondering if this would even make sense but has anyone used a mix of beads...half 65% and half 60%??


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## huskers (Oct 2, 2012)

ProjectSunfire said:


> I have calibrated humi-care digitals. I took them out of the wineador and put them in another humi with a similar setup and after a few hours all were reading 68/66...so its not the hygrometers. I put them back in the wineador this morning and it was reading 72%...ok now I'm getting concerned.
> 
> I am wondering if this would even make sense but has anyone used a mix of beads...half 65% and half 60%??


You don't want to mix beads, they will fight each other.

Sounds to me like maybe a fan quit or you need more circulation.

How many fans do you have?


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## huskers (Oct 2, 2012)

Whats the RH in your house?


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## ProjectSunfire (Mar 30, 2011)

huskers said:


> You don't want to mix beads, they will fight each other.
> 
> Sounds to me like maybe a fan quit or you need more circulation.
> 
> How many fans do you have?


RH in house is around 78%. I do not have any additional fans in there. I never saw the need before since it has been so stable & consistent until now.


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## Old Smokey (Sep 13, 2013)

How have you been rehydrating your beads?


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## huskers (Oct 2, 2012)

ProjectSunfire said:


> RH in house is around 78%. I do not have any additional fans in there. I never saw the need before since it has been so stable & consistent until now.


I would try to throw an additional fan in there and see what happens.

MANY people use an extra fan in the larger wineadors in order to reach an = RH from top to bottom.

Also, look at your beads and take the wetter of the two out and dry them up with a hair dryer.

Its almost like you have a leak and the outside air is getting in your wineador.

Is your drain hole still plugged?


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## Gdaddy (Sep 20, 2012)

This is what happens in Florida. I have the same thing happen. The beads have gotten too moist and slowly lose their ability to absorb any more moisture. Dry them out and put them back in. I need to do this every couple of months. I do 1 minute blasts in the microwave then quickly stirring with a spoon to release the moisture. You'll see the steam in the air. Two 1 minute blasts is a plenty.


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## ProjectSunfire (Mar 30, 2011)

Old Smokey said:


> How have you been rehydrating your beads?


I use a syringe with DWI but actually havn't touched them in a few months because RH stayed at 65%.


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## ProjectSunfire (Mar 30, 2011)

huskers said:


> I would try to throw an additional fan in there and see what happens.
> 
> MANY people use an extra fan in the larger wineadors in order to reach an = RH from top to bottom.
> 
> ...


drain hole is not plugged. I was thinking maybe I suddenly have a leak. Its just baffling to me since absolutely nothing has changed in the setup


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## ProjectSunfire (Mar 30, 2011)

Gdaddy said:


> This is what happens in Florida. I have the same thing happen. The beads have gotten too moist and slowly lose their ability to absorb any more moisture. Dry them out and put them back in. I need to do this every couple of months. I do 1 minute blasts in the microwave then quickly stirring with a spoon to release the moisture. You'll see the steam in the air. Two 1 minute blasts is a plenty.


hmmmm...interesting. I will try this tonight and see if it does the trick. Thanks!


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## huskers (Oct 2, 2012)

ProjectSunfire said:


> *drain hole is not plugged*. I was thinking maybe I suddenly have a leak. Its just baffling to me since absolutely nothing has changed in the setup


Plug the drain........that will certainly help keep the RH inside your wineador more steady.

Your getting the higher RH from your house coming in through that drain hole and it's causing your RH in your wineador to rise.

You probably haven't noticed it because it take a while for the RH to change since it's coming in through that little drain hole.

Your beads just kept absorbing the RH until they no longer could.


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## ProjectSunfire (Mar 30, 2011)

huskers said:


> Plug the drain........that will certainly help keep the RH inside your wineador more steady.
> 
> Your getting the higher RH from your house coming in through that drain hole and it's causing your RH in your wineador to rise.


I will try it...but don't you think that during the nasty humid FL summer this would have already been an issue if it was due to the drain not plugged?


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## huskers (Oct 2, 2012)

ProjectSunfire said:


> I will try it...but don't you think that during the nasty humid FL summer this would have already been an issue if it was due to the drain not plugged?


You said your house temps remain fairly steady.

Do you use an air conditioner?


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## ProjectSunfire (Mar 30, 2011)

huskers said:


> You said your house temps remain fairly steady.
> 
> Do you use an air conditioner?


AC in Florida...no never. LOL

I didn't see the part where you said the beads have slowly absorbed the excess until now. That makes sense


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## Gdaddy (Sep 20, 2012)

I use AC also and my drain hole is plugged. Maybe from opening the door and getting out cigars in comes new air that has some moisture in it. In a few months my RH starts to rise. I'm not really sure why.

A quick 2 minute session in the microwave immediately corrects it and I'm good for a few more months. I take it down to 59/60 rh and then do it again when it gets back up to 64.

I leave the temp set @ 66 degrees and never touch that. 

It is VERY important to stir the beads after each minute of microwave to release the steam. If you don't stir moisture will be re-absorbed.


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## ProjectSunfire (Mar 30, 2011)

ok I microwaved the beads, stirred them, let them cool and then put them back in the wineador. I unplugged the unit. I also plugged the drain. let's see what happens. I'm about ready to move all of the premium sticks back to the old coolidor if things don't get back to normal really soon


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## earcutter (Aug 25, 2013)

ProjectSunfire said:


> ok I microwaved the beads, stirred them, let them cool and then put them back in the wineador. I unplugged the unit. I also plugged the drain. let's see what happens. I'm about ready to move all of the premium sticks back to the old coolidor if things don't get back to normal really soon


Keep us posted - I'll be interested to hear the result.

A quick fwiw, I had spikes at one time and couldn't figure out what was going on either. It was a total mystery as no variable had changed (or so I thought). I think my beads were saturated as well, because ultimately a brother here told me to throw my beads in the oven and dry them out too, and it worked! So I guess there was a variable that had changed.

Good luck!! Nothing worse than seeing a humi spike all over the place.


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## ProjectSunfire (Mar 30, 2011)

earcutter said:


> Keep us posted - I'll be interested to hear the result.
> 
> A quick fwiw, I had spikes at one time and couldn't figure out what was going on either. It was a total mystery as no variable had changed (or so I thought). I think my beads were saturated as well, because ultimately a brother here told me to throw my beads in the oven and dry them out too, and it worked! So I guess there was a variable that had changed.
> 
> Good luck!! Nothing worse than seeing a humi spike all over the place.


Thank you. Yes it is extremely frustrating because for over 9 months this thing has been literally maintenance free. I should have known it was to good to be true haha


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## Bizumpy (Nov 14, 2014)

Yep, all things being equal, an upward spike in RH when using HF beads indicates that they've hit saturation point. Californians use HF beads to humidify, Floridians use HF beads to dessicate. Kinda interesting


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## Gdaddy (Sep 20, 2012)

ProjectSunfire said:


> ok I microwaved the beads, stirred them, let them cool and then put them back in the wineador. I unplugged the unit. I also plugged the drain. let's see what happens. I'm about ready to move all of the premium sticks back to the old coolidor if things don't get back to normal really soon


Did you see steam when you stirred the beads? Why did you unplug the unit? The fans won't be circulating the air. I'd set it at the highest setting (66 degrees?) and let it run.


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## ProjectSunfire (Mar 30, 2011)

Gdaddy said:


> Did you see steam when you stirred the beads?


I definitely did. I noticed that they were kind of "sticky" in that that they stuck to my fingers. don't know if that is good or bad


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## Gdaddy (Sep 20, 2012)

ProjectSunfire said:


> I definitely did. I noticed that they were kind of "sticky" in that that they stuck to my fingers. don't know if that is good or bad


That's why I like to do 1 minute and stir so it doesn't get too steamy. Then do another minute and stir and less steam comes out. 3 times if need be. BTW... as stated above, the fans unplugged will give no circulation. Set it at the highest setting (66 degrees?) and let it run.


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## earcutter (Aug 25, 2013)

ProjectSunfire said:


> I definitely did. I noticed that they were kind of "sticky" in that that they stuck to my fingers. don't know if that is good or bad


I did mine more slowly in the oven - once "cooked" lol, they were sticky for me too. I can't say if it's good or bad, but it didn't seem to affect mine in the long-run.


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## ProjectSunfire (Mar 30, 2011)

Gdaddy said:


> That's why I like to do 1 minute and stir so it doesn't get too steamy. Then do another minute and stir and less steam comes out. 3 times if need be. BTW... as stated above, the fans unplugged will give no circulation. Set it at the highest setting (66 degrees?) and let it run.


ok I plugged it back in and its set at 66 (highest setting). I'll check it in the morning and if its still not dropping I guess I'll try to dry the beads out some more?


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## Gdaddy (Sep 20, 2012)

ProjectSunfire said:


> ok I plugged it back in and its set at 66 (highest setting). I'll check it in the morning and if its still not dropping I guess I'll try to dry the beads out some more?


Good. Let it sit over night and see what happens. Don't open the door. If there's no drop by tomorrow then dry them out a bit more until you no longer see steam coming off them when you stir.

I'm betting you'll see a change by morning.


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## ProjectSunfire (Mar 30, 2011)

Gdaddy said:


> Good. Let it sit over night and see what happens. Don't open the door. If there's no drop by tomorrow then dry them out a bit more until you no longer see steam coming off them when you stir.
> 
> I'm betting you'll see a change by morning.


thanks man...I really appreciate all the help


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## Gdaddy (Sep 20, 2012)

Bizumpy said:


> Yep, all things being equal, an upward spike in RH when using HF beads indicates that they've hit saturation point. Californians use HF beads to humidify, Floridians use HF beads to dessicate. Kinda interesting


Excellent point.

That's why it depends on where you live and the humidity conditions before anyone seasons a humidor or add moisture to their beads. A lot of newbies get in trouble following the dogma that you must season a new humidor or spritz the beads with water to somehow magically 'activate' them to get them to work. If you live in Arizona - yes but if you live in Florida - no.


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## 455 Punch (Nov 24, 2013)

It may have been both the unplugging and the beads saturating, but by changing both variables tonight, you'll never know which it was. That may not matter to you, as long as you get the even RH you're looking for, but it would drive me nuts not knowing. You can always unplug tomorrow and see what the RH does, then plug back in.


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## ProjectSunfire (Mar 30, 2011)

well 2 hours later and RH is still at 72%...so hopefully overnight it will drop. otherwise tomorrow I will start moving as much as will fit into the other humidors until I figure out how to resolve the issue


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## Bizumpy (Nov 14, 2014)

...keeping in mind, too, that 72% isn't exactly the end of the world for cigars.


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## ProjectSunfire (Mar 30, 2011)

Bizumpy said:


> ...keeping in mind, too, that 72% isn't exactly the end of the world for cigars.


It is to me!!! Lol

so it's still at 71%. So I will try to dry the beads more tonight.


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## 455 Punch (Nov 24, 2013)

Give the RH a bit of time to equilibrate. I'm thinking that it takes a little bit of time for the beads to pull moisture out of the air and that air has to be circulating for a speedier function. 1% over night may be the rate. Be patient . I know, hard to do.


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## ProjectSunfire (Mar 30, 2011)

455 Punch said:


> Give the RH a bit of time to equilibrate. I'm thinking that it takes a little bit of time for the beads to pull moisture out of the air and that air has to be circulating for a speedier function. 1% over night may be the rate. Be patient . I know, hard to do.


patience? What is this patience you speak of? hahaha. yeah I know...I'm working late tonight so it will be another 12 hours until I can check it again. hopefully will be down another 1%


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## Old Smokey (Sep 13, 2013)

You have to realize your cigars are probably adding humidity to the air so it will take some time for them to slowly come down to your preferred RH. It you notice the RH slowly dropping then things are happening the way they are supposed to.


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## Gdaddy (Sep 20, 2012)

ProjectSunfire said:


> It is to me!!! Lol
> 
> so it's still at 71%. So I will try to dry the beads more tonight.


The good news is it's responding in the right direction. You do have 3 lbs. of beads so it may require another couple of drying sessions. It only takes a few minutes so I would dry them more. I dry them until there's no more visible steam. Shoot for low 60's.

It's also important to understand that the speed of absorption is accelerated by exposing the beads to the air as openly as possible. A sack/bag of beads will work slower than beads spread out in an open air flat pan. So give them as much exposure as possible.


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## huskers (Oct 2, 2012)

ProjectSunfire said:


> well 2 hours later and RH is still at 72%...so hopefully overnight it will drop. otherwise tomorrow I will start moving as much as will fit into the other humidors until I figure out how to resolve the issue





ProjectSunfire said:


> It is to me!!! Lol
> 
> so it's still at 71%. So I will try to dry the beads more tonight.


Dude.............relax.

It could take a few days before it will settle back down.


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## ProjectSunfire (Mar 30, 2011)

thanks everyone. I'll try to be patient


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## earcutter (Aug 25, 2013)

ProjectSunfire said:


> thanks everyone. I'll try to be patient


You have to be - slow and steady is the win. Recall that the actual relativity (within reason of course) is now where as disastrous as the quick spikes.


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## MegaGlide (Jul 22, 2012)

Old Smokey said:


> You have to realize your cigars are probably adding humidity to the air so it will take some time for them to slowly come down to your preferred RH. It you notice the RH slowly dropping then things are happening the way they are supposed to.


Yup. IIRC, the OP said it was filled to capacity. If all those cigars are at 72%, it'll take a good long while for the RH to drop. The air is easy. The cigars shedding moisture into the air until it is all equal is what takes time.


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## ProjectSunfire (Mar 30, 2011)

quick update. I had some time to kill this morning so I took out all of the beads again and put them in 1 huge tupperware container and nuked them in 1 min increments then stirred between sessions. I kept doing this until I did not see any more steam. Put them all back in the cooler. So hopefully this will resolve the issue. I'll give it a few days for things to acclimate back to normal.


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## jp1979 (Sep 12, 2013)

Try a small container of damp rid to bring it down faster. I believe @TonyBrooklyn has mentioned using it, maybe he can chime in.


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## Gdaddy (Sep 20, 2012)

ProjectSunfire said:


> quick update. I had some time to kill this morning so I took out all of the beads again and put them in 1 huge tupperware container and nuked them in 1 min increments then stirred between sessions. I kept doing this until I did not see any more steam. Put them all back in the cooler. So hopefully this will resolve the issue. I'll give it a few days for things to acclimate back to normal.


If steam still came out they were still saturated. What was the RH this morning before you opened the door?


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## ProjectSunfire (Mar 30, 2011)

Gdaddy said:


> If steam still came out they were still saturated. What was the RH this morning before you opened the door?


It was at 70%


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## Gdaddy (Sep 20, 2012)

ProjectSunfire said:


> It was at 70%


Good. You'll be mid sixties in a couple of days.


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## TonyBrooklyn (Jan 28, 2010)

jp1979 said:


> Try a small container of damp rid to bring it down faster. I believe @TonyBrooklyn has mentioned using it, maybe he can chime in.


I would take some silica kitty litter bake it at 200 degrees for a couple of hours till its good and dry stick them in watch the magic.


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## ProjectSunfire (Mar 30, 2011)

Gdaddy said:


> Good. You'll be mid sixties in a couple of days.


just got home from work. Hmmm........:rockon:


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## Gdaddy (Sep 20, 2012)

ProjectSunfire said:


> just got home from work. Hmmm........:rockon:
> 
> View attachment 51780


That's a beautiful thing!! If it drops to low 60's, which it may, don't worry it's fine. I even dip into the upper 50's sometimes.

Now you know what to do when it starts going back up in a few months. The microwave is quick and easy.


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## Dennis0311 (Dec 17, 2014)

Congrats. May the smoke be with you.


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## ProjectSunfire (Mar 30, 2011)

huge thanks to everyone for the assistance. scotch for everyone!


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## ProjectSunfire (Mar 30, 2011)

64/65 today...problem appears to be solved!


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## earcutter (Aug 25, 2013)

That's great news. Congrats. 

What a timely thread though. I think I am about to go through this exact same issue. 

I was seasoning a couple of new humis. They got up into the high 70's which is expected. I let it sit there like that for about a week. 

Anyway, knowing I had an order of sticks coming in a couple of days, I put my new Heartfelt beads in, not really expecting them to absorb all that humidity. At least not to the point of saturation. I mean they shipped somewhat dry (I thought).

Yesterday I put in my new sticks and thought nothing of it.

Today I open up the box to have a look... 78%. Yikes lol!! I'll leave it open for a while. It'll get there . Lessened learned though. Don't put your beads in a seasoned humi while the sponge is still in there. They suck up the excess pretty quick .


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## ProjectSunfire (Mar 30, 2011)

earcutter said:


> That's great news. Congrats.
> 
> What a timely thread though. I think I am about to go through this exact same issue.
> 
> ...


I think we sometimes forget that they are a 2-way humidification device. I obviously did!


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## Gdaddy (Sep 20, 2012)

earcutter said:


> That's great news. Congrats.
> 
> What a timely thread though. I think I am about to go through this exact same issue.
> 
> ...


Many people don't need to 'season' the humidor either. It doesn't take much effort to check the RH level of a humidor BEFORE doing anything and in many cases it's just fine right out of the box.


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## earcutter (Aug 25, 2013)

Gdaddy said:


> Many people don't need to 'season' the humidor either. I*t doesn't take much effort to check the RH level of a humidor BEFORE doing anything* and in many cases it's just fine right out of the box.


LOL! No it doesn't take much to check the RH before seasoning it - if indeed you need to season it. Good reminder.


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## ProjectSunfire (Mar 30, 2011)

Gdaddy said:


> That's a beautiful thing!! If it drops to low 60's, which it may, don't worry it's fine. I even dip into the upper 50's sometimes.
> 
> Now you know what to do when it starts going back up in a few months. The microwave is quick and easy.


Quick update. All is well! I have noticed that the very bottom is staying around 59. it is 64-65 from the middle to the top. I keep premium sticks in the bottom 2 drawers (CC, Padron, Tats, LP, etc) which seem to smoke better with the lower RH. I was going to look into adding some fans for circulation but now I am thinking that this may work out best by not having uniform RH throughout.


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## Gdaddy (Sep 20, 2012)

ProjectSunfire said:


> Quick update. All is well! I have noticed that the very bottom is staying around 59. it is 64-65 from the middle to the top. I keep premium sticks in the bottom 2 drawers (CC, Padron, Tats, LP, etc) which seem to smoke better with the lower RH. I was going to look into adding some fans for circulation but now I am thinking that this may work out best by not having uniform RH throughout.


Excellent. Now you know how easy it is to adjust. Before adding fans you might like it just the way it is. Enjoy!


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## jimsta10 (Apr 29, 2015)

this thread has been an excellent read...something out of TV soap series...the suspense was killing but had it read from start to finish...:banana:


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