# SCHIP VETO'd



## stevieray

Bush just vetoed it!!!

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21111931/


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## RETSF

:chk:chk:chk


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## Seanohue

Best damn news I've heard all day! (42% on my physics test  )


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## 12stones

That's good news, but it should have never gotten to this point.


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## Silky01

Here's the fox news link also; probably both say same thing:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,299129,00.html

At least he's come thru with something he promised! w00t!


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## mosesbotbol

Guess I am having a cigar in celebration!

:bl


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## illinoishoosier

We can't get too excited yet...these things always have a way of getting resurrected with something extra added.

But smoke 'em now!!:ss:bl


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## Studebaker

And of course the MSNBC article perpetuates the misconception, "It would be funded by raising the federal cigarette tax by 61 cents to $1 per pack." No mention of the rest of the extortion picture.  

Celebrate now, but stay ready. They'll be back.


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## Darrell

:chk:chk:chk

Smoke 'em if you got 'em. Let's hope this does not blow up in our faces. :tu


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## GOAT LOCKER

But what about _*THE CHILDREN*_™ ?


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## glking

GOAT LOCKER said:


> But what about _*THE CHILDREN*_™ ?


They can still afford to buy a good cigar!:ss


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## dayplanner

Seanohue said:


> Best damn news I've heard all day!


:tpd:


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## Silky01

Studebaker said:


> And of course the MSNBC article perpetuates the misconception, "It would be funded by raising the federal cigarette tax by 61 cents to $1 per pack." No mention of the rest of the extortion picture.
> 
> Celebrate now, but stay ready. They'll be back.


Fox at least said that Bush told congress he would veto it and that they knew about it!


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## doctorcue

Very nice. All of the news talks about how Bush killed the "Child healthcare bill". No mention of $85k income households, 25 year old kids, etc. Lets hope the house holds it's ground.


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## Coffee Grounds

Great news!


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## Smoked

Tonight I will smoke many a cigar and drink many a Scotch.


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## jjirons69

Maybe Ms. Floydp has his address. We should send him some 5-ers! Non-CC of course. Hell, they probably are still trying to smoke all of JFK's CC stash. :u



Seanohue said:


> Best damn news I've heard all day! (42% on my physics test  )


In some of my classes, 42% was a B or C, depending if anyone threw the curve off.


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## smokin5

I believe that calls for lighting up a stogie!:ss


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## c2000

Bush hates children.



Jerry in Minnesota.


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## Silky01

smokin5 said:


> I believe that calls for lighting up a stogie!:ss


Just did an "after lunch" pipe celebration:chk


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## BigFrankMD

I was really enjoying the talk radio last night at work, funny how people talked about Bush "exploiting soilders" to make his case for the war, but now congress and the senate are exploiting children. Nothing more than a bunch of child molesters trying to start government run national health care.

Shameless.


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## King James

great news! definitely calls for a celebratory smoke!


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## Lorglath

Seanohue said:


> Best damn news I've heard all day! (42% on my physics test  )


Great news on the SCHIP.. Sean... 42% was passing where i went


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## macjoe53

c2000 said:


> Bush hates children.
> 
> Jerry in Minnesota.


Not really. His plan makes more fiscal sense.


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## dayplanner

RETSF said:


> :chk:chk:chk


:ss


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## BlueHavanaII

It's not over yet. Make sure you phone your representatives to ensure the veto is not overridden. Right now the Socio-crats are 20 votes away from taking this away from us!

Jim


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## Coffee Grounds

Wow 
This does call for a con-grads smoke. I am going to dig deep to the bottom shelf of the humi and fire up something special.

I hope everyone realizes what a major bullet we just dodged. Our B&M's would of gone out of business to fund this socialized health plan for the libs.


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## PadronMe

c2000 said:


> Bush hates children.


Yea. I don't know how he sleeps at night.


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## FriendlyFire

Wow, Maybe we put togeather a Nice big Sampler and ship it to the white house. I'm serious.


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## Cheeto

*Bush vetoes child health insurance plan*

The bill we feared would destroy the cigar industry as we know it was vetoed by president Bush today. Somehow I don't think it was because of the tax increase, but Bush's view on healthcare. Either way though, the cigar industry seems to be safe for now.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071003...en_s_health;_ylt=AmUby7CXS_L.5BKDPtjYFpOs0NUE


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## Cheeto

*Re: Bush vetoes child health insurance plan*

oops, delete both of these please, a slow computer and my complete inability to understand acronyms makes this thread null and void.


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## Marlboro Cigars-cl

Nice.
:tu


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## SmokeyJoe

*Re: Bush vetoes child health insurance plan*

Glad for the reprieve. :tu
_"They frighten easily, but they will soon be back... and in greater numbers."_ 
*- O. Kenobi*


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## JCK

He's got a humidor to fill...

http://www.cubancrafters.com/cigar_events.php?cigar_event_id=10


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## croatan

*Re: Bush vetoes child health insurance plan*

I merged a couple of threads about this together.


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## JCK

I started thinking... would the White House mailing system pass along cigars sent to the President or would they be put in the trash bin in fear that someone is trying to poison the President?


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## JCK

N/M.. found my answer.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/contact/

Gifts & Items Sent to the White House

Items sent to the White House often experience a significant delivery delay and can be irreparably harmed due to the security screening process. Therefore, please do not send items of personal importance, such as family photographs, because items may be unable to be returned.

We also request that gifts of a consumable nature, such as food, flowers, and other perishable items, not be sent to the White House due to the security screening process. While the President and Mrs. Bush and Vice President and Mrs. Cheney appreciate your thoughtfulness, they request that you look instead to your local community for opportunities to assist your neighbors in need.

To comment on the web site or to report an error, please send feedback to the Web Development Team.


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## drawfour

macjoe53 said:


> Not really. His plan makes more fiscal sense.


I think the "Bush hates Children" quip by Jerry was a tongue-in-cheek reference to Kanye West's infamous "George Bush hates black people".

Jerry definitely is aware of the fiscal sensibilities of the veto.


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## Mystophales

It was funny after I heard about this I told my wife to just watch the news tonight and see how many references the news makes to this damn near destroying the lives of children. Not two minutes later comes a commercial for the 10pm news and the first thing they say is "Tonight at 10 find out how President Bush has taken away health care for children."


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## TripleF

doctorcue said:


> Very nice. All of the news talks about how Bush killed the "Child healthcare bill". No mention of $85k income households, 25 year old kids, etc. Lets hope the house holds it's ground.


Great point doctorcue!! It's unreal how the media twists things......just blows me away.

We do need to be prepared because now they will renegogiate the bill and attempt to override the veto.

Sit tight........


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## ATLHARP

GOAT LOCKER said:


> But what about _*THE CHILDREN*_™ ?


Let'em smoke Dunhills!

ATL


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## Seanohue

drawfour said:


> I think the "Bush hates Children" quip by Jerry was a tongue-in-cheek reference to Kanye West's infamous "George Bush hates black people".
> 
> Jerry definitely is aware of the fiscal sensibilities of the veto.


Pay attention to the wording! I had to write a paper on this in my morality class last year in high school, and the actual quote was "George Bush does not care about black people". I also said hate, so I got the assignment wrong.


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## Sawyer

I had to explain to my co-workers this morning about why Bush vetoed this. They all came in believing the media hype about how Bush doesn't want kids to have health care. After I explained $83,000 household income and 25 year old children, they understood.


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## Budprince

Hooray for the veto! Remeber to stay vigilant though, the people beind this thing are indefatigable, and also know the value of incrementalism. . . look for them to come back at it again with smaller steps toward the same end.

But once again, hooray for the veto!


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## BlueHavanaII

*Next step...*

Yesterday, the House of Representatives voted further consideration of the veto message and the bill, H.R. 976, be postponed until October 18, 2007.

This vote to delay, sponsored by the Democrats (Hoyer-MD), went strictly along party lines with 222 Ayes (all Dems) and 196 noes (1 Dem). This gives the Democrats two weeks to try to turn two dozen Republicans and override the veto.

Our message should be simple... keep telling your Representatives to vote against this bill!!!


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## Bob

The stupidity of this bill and others like it demean the American people. To assume that a household making over 80K a year is in need of federal help for childcare is taxation gone amuck!!! This would turn into a true monster of a health care crisis should the tax implied not be paid and smokers really did quit smoking in protest of the taxation. It would put manufacturers out of business and at the same time put this kind of government health care tied to tobacco out of comission. It would be comparable to the tossing of tea in the ocean as was once done to the King of England! It is stupid for our representatives to address healthcare in this way. A much better way can and will be found if we can convience the representatives of this lunacy to stop addressing healthcare using tobacco money. If the manufacturerers and corporations of big tobacco could support the American smoker in a "smoke out" it would be helpful in applying pressure to the government in trying to address healthcare in this way. An active protest would be to not pay tobacco taxes in protest but the only way to do that would be to refrain from smoking.....which in turn would hurt manufacturers...NONE of us want to see that happen. There has to be a democratic way of protest to stop this overbearing legislation. This kind of thing ties the hands of the consumer and it ties the hands of the manufacturer and it takes away personal power and freedom of choice to all concerned. This is only round one. Any ideas on what can be done??


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## Sawyer

Bob said:


> The stupidity of this bill and others like it demean the American people. To assume that a household making over 80K a year is in need of federal help for childcare is taxation gone amuck!!! This would turn into a true monster of a health care crisis should the tax implied not be paid and smokers really did quit smoking in protest of the taxation. It would put manufacturers out of business and at the same time put this kind of government health care tied to tobacco out of comission. It would be comparable to the tossing of tea in the ocean as was once done to the King of England! It is stupid for our representatives to address healthcare in this way. A much better way can and will be found if we can convience the representatives of this lunacy to stop addressing healthcare using tobacco money. If the manufacturerers and corporations of big tobacco could support the American smoker in a "smoke out" it would be helpful in applying pressure to the government in trying to address healthcare in this way. An active protest would be to not pay tobacco taxes in protest but the only way to do that would be to refrain from smoking.....which in turn would hurt manufacturers...NONE of us want to see that happen. There has to be a democratic way of protest to stop this overbearing legislation. This kind of thing ties the hands of the consumer and it ties the hands of the manufacturer and it takes away personal power and freedom of choice to all concerned. This is only round one. Any ideas on what can be done??


Black Market. Just order from out of the country. But then that would hurt the B&M owners.


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## Corona Gigante-cl

fishforfree said:


> Great point doctorcue!! It's unreal how the media twists things......just blows me away.


Yes, isn't it? Here's an good example.



Sawyer said:


> I had to explain to my co-workers this morning about why Bush vetoed this. They all came in believing the media hype about how Bush doesn't want kids to have health care. After I explained $83,000 household income and 25 year old children, they understood.


_The president also complained that the bill would cover too many children who don't need federal help. "This program expands coverage, federal coverage, up to families earning $83,000 a year. That doesn't sound poor to me," the president told the Lancaster audience.

Dorn [Stan Dorn, a senior research associate with the Urban Institute, a Washington-based think tank] says that's not exactly right, either. "This bill would actually put new limits in place to keep states from going to very high-income levels. SCHIP money would no longer be available over 300 percent of the federal poverty level, which is about $60,000 for a family of four."

The president gets to make the $83,000 claim because New York had wanted to allow children in families with incomes up to four times the poverty level onto the program. That is, indeed, $82,600. The Department of Health and Human Services rejected New York's plan last month, and under the bill, that denial would stand. White House officials warn, however, that the bill would allow a future administration to grant New York's request._

More...​


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## GOAT LOCKER

Corona Gigante said:


> Yes, isn't it? Here's an good example.
> Bunch of stuff from NPR deleted


It's a very complex issue, and both sides are spinning as always. Most sources of info are pretty biased, but the bottom line is that they want to increase the program costs by $35B at the expense of a small number of tax payers.

Also, the income requirements are misleading. The requirements set by most states are not even gross income, but allow many deductions. New Jersey has already raised the income limit to $72K/Year under the "old" SCHIP. You think they are counting other federal, state and local benefits as income? WIC, food stamps, subsidized housing, etc?

Also, according to the Congressional Budget Office report, between 25% and 50% of all new enrollments under the proposed guidlines would be people cancelling their existing insurance in order to join SCHIP.

And as far as enrolling adults? There are already 671,000 adults enrolled.

How about this... Institute cost sharing between the state and federal governments like it is done now, but the federal share starts decreasing at 150% of poverty level, and ends at 200%. If states want to provide medical welfare to the middle class, that's on them. This way, the blue states can create their social utopias and I can move to a conservative state to get away from these taxes. Let us know how it works out...

It's just a matter of time anyway. We already have coverage for the children, the elderly, the poor and the lower middle class. All you need now is the middle class. The upper middle class and the rich will pay out of pocket for high end "filet mignon" medical care, while the rest will get government cheese.


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## nimravus01

GOAT LOCKER said:


> It's a very complex issue, and both sides are spinning as always. Most sources of info are pretty biased, but the bottom line is that they want to increase the program costs by $35B at the expense of a small number of tax payers.
> 
> Also, the income requirements are misleading. The requirements set by most states are not even gross income, but allow many deductions. New Jersey has already raised the income limit to $72K/Year under the "old" SCHIP. You think they are counting other federal, state and local benefits as income? WIC, food stamps, subsidized housing, etc?
> 
> Also, according to the Congressional Budget Office report, between 25% and 50% of all new enrollments under the proposed guidlines would be people cancelling their existing insurance in order to join SCHIP.
> 
> And as far as enrolling adults? There are already 671,000 adults enrolled.
> 
> How about this... Institute cost sharing between the state and federal governments like it is done now, but the federal share starts decreasing at 150% of poverty level, and ends at 200%. If states want to provide medical welfare to the middle class, that's on them. This way, the blue states can create their social utopias and I can move to a conservative state to get away from these taxes. Let us know how it works out...
> 
> It's just a matter of time anyway. We already have coverage for the children, the elderly, the poor and the lower middle class. All you need now is the middle class. The upper middle class and the rich will pay out of pocket for high end "filet mignon" medical care, while the rest will get government cheese.


Nicely put


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## omowasu

GOAT LOCKER said:


> It's a very complex issue, and both sides are spinning as always. Most sources of info are pretty biased, but the bottom line is that they want to increase the program costs by $35B at the expense of a small number of tax payers.
> 
> Also, the income requirements are misleading. The requirements set by most states are not even gross income, but allow many deductions. New Jersey has already raised the income limit to $72K/Year under the "old" SCHIP. You think they are counting other federal, state and local benefits as income? WIC, food stamps, subsidized housing, etc?
> 
> Also, according to the Congressional Budget Office report, between 25% and 50% of all new enrollments under the proposed guidlines would be people cancelling their existing insurance in order to join SCHIP.
> 
> And as far as enrolling adults? There are already 671,000 adults enrolled.
> 
> How about this... Institute cost sharing between the state and federal governments like it is done now, but the federal share starts decreasing at 150% of poverty level, and ends at 200%. If states want to provide medical welfare to the middle class, that's on them. This way, the blue states can create their social utopias and I can move to a conservative state to get away from these taxes. Let us know how it works out...
> 
> It's just a matter of time anyway. We already have coverage for the children, the elderly, the poor and the lower middle class. All you need now is the middle class. The upper middle class and the rich will pay out of pocket for high end "filet mignon" medical care, while the rest will get government cheese.


Agreed, and well put. I agree with the veto for the above reasons, even without consideration of my cigar habit. Consider this:

- Since when is a 25-year old considered to be a child eligible for government health care? Last I had heard, when one turned 18, it was college clinics, medicare, or employer insurance.

- Since when is a family making 80000.00 / annum eligible for government healthcare? 80K is WELL ABOVE the countrys median wage. Buy less games for the Playstation 3 and spend some on copays. How hard is that?

- Since when is anyone "uninsured"? Every American is insured through Medicare/Medicaid at a bare minimum. The government already picks up the tab if one cannot pay. There is no such thing as an uninsured American.

You really have to wonder how deep the rabbit hole goes on this one. Sometimes the mob mentality of some groups just amazes me - how willing they are to take the news at "face value" without looking behind the curtain to see who controls the Wizard of Oz. Our dollar is weak, the last thing we need are more government entitlements or spending programs.


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## dennis569

The parade of kids by the liberal bedwetters has begun.
"For the children"
From now on when someone says "for the children" I'm automaticaly
against it.
Let's face it, most kids are little pricks. If you disagree just spend a
bit of time in a Wallmart.
My kids are grown now but I remember like it was yesterday having a house full of runny nosed little beggers. 
Most of these welfare minded folks learn their welfare attitudes as kids.
"Mommy, I'm hungry, Daddy, I need clothes for school" Always whinning.
When I was a kid we were tough (even if we couldn't spell)
And we were poor, too. When I was six years old we didn't have no fancy
cigars. We had to smoke corn silk. No tv either. We had to entertain ourselves. I feel sorry for kids these days. They'll never know the thrill of tripping chickens or the hilarity of getting hogs drunk on mash.
I guess I'm getting to be a cranky old turd. But I like it.
Euell says " Howdy"


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## CeeGar

Please enjoy....


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## Studebaker

dennis569 said:


> The parade of kids by the liberal bedwetters has begun.
> "For the children"
> From now on when someone says "for the children" I'm automaticaly
> against it.
> Let's face it, most kids are little pricks. If you disagree just spend a
> bit of time in a Wallmart.
> My kids are grown now but I remember like it was yesterday having a house full of runny nosed little beggers.
> Most of these welfare minded folks learn their welfare attitudes as kids.
> "Mommy, I'm hungry, Daddy, I need clothes for school" Always whinning.
> When I was a kid we were tough (even if we couldn't spell)
> And we were poor, too. When I was six years old we didn't have no fancy
> cigars. We had to smoke corn silk. No tv either. We had to entertain ourselves. I feel sorry for kids these days. They'll never know the thrill of tripping chickens or the hilarity of getting hogs drunk on mash.
> I guess I'm getting to be a cranky old turd. But I like it.
> Euell says " Howdy"


:r What a great role model for your kids!


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## fordkustom

oh we can be assured it will raise its ugly mug in the future.


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## Papichulo

Imagine the billions of $$ will be saved if the illegals leave our country. It would ensure medical coverage for the poor citizens is taken care of. Secondly, if we tightened up the laws for unemployment we will reduce the unemployment rate. Thirdly, do not bail out the home mortgages. Lastly, if you lost your home to a natural disaster and did not have insurance piss on you. :2

I am pissed off!!!!

Back to the cigar tax. When was the last time a cigar smoker killed someone on our roads??

Drinking kills, not the cigar smoker.


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## TripleF

Papichulo said:


> Imagine the billions of $$ will be saved if the illegals leave our country. It would ensure medical coverage for the poor citizens is taken care of. Secondly, if we tightened up the laws for unemployment we will reduce the unemployment rate. Thirdly, do not bail out the home mortgages. Lastly, if you lost your home to a natural disaster and did not have insurance piss on you. :2
> 
> I am pissed off!!!!
> 
> Back to the cigar tax. When was the last time a cigar smoker killed someone on our roads??
> 
> Drinking kills, not the cigar smoker.


Here. Here. Brilliant post!!

We do need to do everything in our power, even though the political powers don't give us any power, to contact our politicians and try and convert them so that the additional 20 or so votes needed to overturn the veto are not gathered.

I sent this to my politician in FL:

_Do you have a conscience?

You can not possibly in right mind allow this amount of taxes you are proposing to be added on top of an industry you are trying to diminish and expect to force poor people earning 85K annually to accept these handouts.

Don't you remember when common sense ruled your judgement as opposed to political games. Are the political games you engage in so powerful that you have become numb to them and now you sleep peacefully at night?

The SCHIP bill is exactly that.........a game.

Explain this to an outsider:
Raise taxes on an industry we would like to eliminate.
Take tax money and give to families with incomes of 85K.

Everybody who hears this looks at me like a confused dog as they raise their eyebrow and tilt their head.

Vote common sense. Agree with the President and this one and leave the veto alone!_


*Contact your politicians again Gorillas. *
*Put the pressure on!!*


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## CIGARTOYZ

illinoishoosier said:


> We can't get too excited yet...these things always have a way of getting resurrected with something extra added.
> 
> But smoke 'em now!!:ss:bl


I agree with you. Its not over until its over


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## Corona Gigante-cl

GOAT LOCKER said:


> It's just a matter of time anyway. We already have coverage for the children, the elderly, the poor and the lower middle class. All you need now is the middle class. The upper middle class and the rich will pay out of pocket for high end "filet mignon" medical care, while the rest will get government cheese.


I won't comment on your unattributed assertions. but I agree with you there. As Winston Churchill said, "The United States invariably does the right thing, after having exhausted every other alternative."

And government cheese is better than nothing at all, don't you think?


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## kjjm4

Yes, government cheese is better than nothing at all, but I think the point he was trying to make is that most middle class citizens who have insurance now will get worse coverage/care under a government-run system, and probably pay more (through increased taxes).


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## GOAT LOCKER

Corona Gigante said:


> And government cheese is better than nothing at all, don't you think?


I guess you have never tried government cheese... 

Back in my younger days, they couldn't give the stuff away to the "poor", so they gave it to us military folk along with "grade B" beef. u

If it wasn't obvious enough, the "unattributed assertions" in the last paragraph were opinion.


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## Seanohue

Guys, its over. Start stocking up. http://news.aol.com/story/ar/_a/hur...l/20071010093209990001?ncid=NWS00010000000001


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## krash

From article: Ms. Pelosi on Tuesday said, “I think it’s really a sad statement about how bankrupt some of these people are in their arguments against S-chip that they would attack a 12-year-old boy.”

I think it's a sad statement that the Democrats needed to put a 12 year old boy in that position. Why didn't the mother or father testify? Because you get more shock value with a child. If you don't get your way the first time, throw out the line "you don't care enough about children". That will make even the toughest politician back away. I don't support this current proposal as it stands, so according to the Democrats and some Republicans I don't care about children. I don't have 6 kids and make 45000 a year to be honest. But I also don't have over 400,000 in assets. I can't understand why the parents can't pay for health coverage.

This is not an attack on the Democrats or the Republicans, just my :2 on this proposed tax and the article in the previous link. Take money from one group to pay for another group doesn't work. It never has. The cigarette tax in Minnesota was supposed to pay for health care and roads, but obviously that isn't happening. I also wonder how many of the people this bill is supposed to help are working for Walmart. They are notorios for not helping their employees with health coverage.


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