# rtrimbath's Newair 181 Wineador Build



## rtrimbath (Sep 22, 2013)

My wineador project has been in the works since November 27, 2013 when I ordered my drawers from Forrest at wineador.com. I consider that my official start date. I decided at the time that the 18 bottle Newair was the size I wanted. If only I had a time machine to change that decision to a 28 bottle. That is my biggest regret. I figured on the wait being at least 2 months for a non-rush order, so all I could do is get all the materials together to prepare for the drawers. Ordering a Newair AW-181E was a very large hassle because from November till January there were none in stock anywhere (that I could find). I had some real worries that I would have drawers for a wine cooler I couldn't get. Finally in the first week of January I was able to get one from overstock.com. I paid way too much, but I wanted to have the cooler aired out, washed and ready for when the drawers arrived. Plus, there were no other options to purchase from. That made the decision a little easier. Here's some pics from the day it arrived...
View attachment 84068
View attachment 84069


While I was waiting for the cooler to be shipped I purchased some supplies to get the dreaded plastic smell that I've heard so much about out. I bought some activated charcoal, empty cedar boxes, baking soda, and fragrance free Dawn to take care of it. When it arrived I opened the cooler door to be absolutely shocked. NO SMELL!!! I still washed it thoroughly with the dish soap and distilled water and let it air out for a couple days, but there was no need for anything else. I really lucked out on that one.

Now it was time to settle in and wait for the drawers. One day I saw a thread by @bleslie34 describing how he lined his cooler with cedar panels. I decided to copy the process. I ordered two 1/4"x5"x48" Spanish Cedar planks off of Amazon and cut them to fit. I attached the panels with Liquid Nails. The Liquid Nails caused the planks to warp instantly, so if anyone plans on replicating this I would find another solution to attaching the panels. Kind of a bummer, but no one will really see it anyways.














Since I still had time to kill till my drawers arrived, I decided to make something for my Heartfelt beads to sit in besides a plastic container. I took an old Ashton 898 box and removed the lid, and then drilled holes in the sides. I took some screen patches and secured them with epoxy over the holes. None of this was really necessary, but I was really restless from the wait.








On February 10th, 2014 I finally got my shipment notification for my drawers. Another 8 days on February 18th, 2014 they finally arrived. I ordered 1 vented false-bottom drawer, 3 vented regular drawers, and 1 shelf; all with the Blood Wood upgrade.




















There were a few problems I ran into with the drawers, but Forrest was helpful. The finish must have been a little tacky when packaged because the saran wrap left some marks on one of the drawers. There were also some gaps in the joints, and excess glue. I'm sure part of it had to do with the 2 1/2 month wait giving me unrealistic expectations, but in any case Forrest offered to replace the whole set! I didn't think that was necessary, but was grateful for the offer. He really is a great guy to deal with. Top-notch customer service. I used my own 3" pulls because I liked the look of a set I found at Lowes.








I am currently seasoning the drawers. I am using a modified Herf N' Turf method using two sponges wet with distilled water; one larger one on the bottom and a smaller one up top. I also threw in some 84% Boveda seasoning packs I had left over from a previous humidor seasoning. It took about a day and a half to get the rh up to 80% and I let it sit like that for three days. I have now removed and replaced all of the sponges and Boveda packs with my 65% Heartfelt Beads. I am using 1 lb. in the box I made on the bottom of the cooler and a 1/2 lb. in a small media bag on the top shelf. I also have some large Heartfelt tubes thrown in the drawers.

I'm heading out of town for a bit and won't be able to get you pics of the filled drawers for about a week. At least I have something to look forward to when I get home. I'll post more pictures then.


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## SeanTheEvans (Dec 13, 2013)

That Wineador is very much awesome bro!:mrgreen:

Love the idea of putting the HF beads in an old cigar box w/ the holes - very clever. Might steal that one from you in the future. I agree, your handles are very nice as well, good choices. Will be interested in seeing what you put in this beast, thanks for the post and pics!


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## Kilo (Feb 7, 2014)

Looks awesome!! Good job! Can't wait to see it stocked.


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## danmdevries (Jan 31, 2014)

That's an awesome idea if you can afford the space, to put your beads in a box. I'm stealing that idea.


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## rtrimbath (Sep 22, 2013)

Thanks for the replies! I think it's shaping up pretty nicely. One thing I'm having trouble is deciding where to put a hygrometer/s. there's plenty of room on the front of the drawers, but I can't bring myself to attach adhesive to them. I might just put one on the top that I'll have to open the cooler to see once I get my rh stabilized. We'll see. Here's a pic I forgot to post. I'll try to keep them coming when I get back.


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## rtrimbath (Sep 22, 2013)

I think I forgot to mention that I removed the Newair logo from the glass using dental floss like a saw through the glue. I then used Goo Gone to remove any residue. I can thank Puff for that little trick.


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## ejewell (Feb 19, 2013)

I'm waiting for it to have sticks. :smoke: lol


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## Warren_G (Jan 11, 2014)

My favorite part of that humidor is the UK sticker on top


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## quo155 (Aug 10, 2010)

What an awesome job you've done both with your build and detailing the build with info and photos...RG coming to you!



rtrimbath said:


> Since I still had time to kill till my drawers arrived, I decided to make something for my Heartfelt beads to sit in besides a plastic container. I took an old Ashton 898 box and removed the lid, and then drilled holes in the sides. I took some screen patches and secured them with epoxy over the holes. None of this was really necessary, but I was really restless from the wait.
> View attachment 48187


Now, I am going to steal this idea for mine! I've had my beads sitting on the bottom in some plastic lid, for years...I've hated it but I absolutely love this idea! Now, it's off to my B&M tomorrow to grab a few free boxes.

Again, great job!


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## rtrimbath (Sep 22, 2013)

quo155 said:


> What an awesome job you've done both with your build and detailing the build with info and photos...RG coming to you!
> 
> Now, I am going to steal this idea for mine! I've had my beads sitting on the bottom in some plastic lid, for years...I've hated it but I absolutely love this idea! Now, it's off to my B&M tomorrow to grab a few free boxes.
> 
> Again, great job!


Thanks for RG. I'll take all I can get! And you're more than welcome to steal the box idea. I think it fits into the whole scheme better than something plastic.

Literally all the knowledge needed to build this wineador were from tips I learned on puff.com. I hope I can give a little back to the forum. If anyone has any questions or needs further clarification let me know.


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## MDSPHOTO (Sep 10, 2013)

Very nice box! Any worries about the odors from the adhesives you used to hang the wood an attach the screens?


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## rtrimbath (Sep 22, 2013)

MDSPHOTO said:


> Very nice box! Any worries about the odors from the adhesives you used to hang the wood an attach the screens?


I did at first, but the odor of the epoxy I used for the box dissipated after about a week. I actually made the box before I even bought the cooler, so it had plenty of time to air out.

After attaching the cedar panels, It took about a week with the door open to get rid of the smell. I had plenty of time till my drawers arrived, so it all worked out perfectly.


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## rtrimbath (Sep 22, 2013)

I'm having some trouble uploading the pictures of my filled drawers. It keeps saying I'm past my quota. Anyone know how to get around that?


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## rtrimbath (Sep 22, 2013)

Warren_G said:


> My favorite part of that humidor is the UK sticker on top


How did I miss this post!!! I went to UK for college 2002-2006. I've decided to name my cooler the Wildcat Wineador and plan to put the UK logo on the glass.


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## Warren_G (Jan 11, 2014)

rtrimbath said:


> How did I miss this post!!! I went to UK for college 2002-2006. I've decided to name my cooler the Wildcat Wineador and plan to put the UK logo on the glass.


We just became friends! I went from 05 to 10. Still live in LexVegas! The Wildcat Wineador is a sick name. Well played sir


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## rtrimbath (Sep 22, 2013)

Warren_G said:


> We just became friends! I went from 05 to 10. Still live in LexVegas! The Wildcat Wineador is a sick name. Well played sir


I knew you were legit as soon as you referred to it as Lex Vegas!! Haha


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## Warren_G (Jan 11, 2014)

rtrimbath said:


> I knew you were legit as soon as you referred to it as Lex Vegas!! Haha


Funny!


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## rtrimbath (Sep 22, 2013)

I'm going to try and upload my drawer pics through photobucket.
First Drawer: Alec Bradley, Tatuaje, and Singles


Second Drawer: Oliva Brand being biggest contributor


Third Drawer: I got the memo that a Drew Estate drawer seems to be required in every wineador.


I'm pretty sure I can't show pictures of my fourth drawer.


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## rtrimbath (Sep 22, 2013)

Here's a pic of the cedar tray I keep on the top shelf.


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## ProjectSunfire (Mar 30, 2011)

Great job on this! I love the bead container...I'm stealing this one too! I also really like the idea of lining it with cedar. I may have to look into that option as I'm waiting for my drawers to arrive.


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## rtrimbath (Sep 22, 2013)

ProjectSunfire said:


> Great job on this! I love the bead container...I'm stealing this one too! I also really like the idea of lining it with cedar. I may have to look into that option as I'm waiting for my drawers to arrive.


If you want to line your cooler with cedar, you might want to do some tests on what to attach the panels with. Liquid Nails caused a lot of warping, but it definitely does the job. I would maybe suggest some kind of epoxy, but that could be expensive. Let me know what size cooler you're going to use and I can tell you how much, and where to order the planks from.

I think I'm going to start charging royalties on the bead box idea. Haha


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## ProjectSunfire (Mar 30, 2011)

rtrimbath said:


> If you want to line your cooler with cedar, you might want to do some tests on what to attach the panels with. Liquid Nails caused a lot of warping, but it definitely does the job. I would maybe suggest some kind of epoxy, but that could be expensive. Let me know what size cooler you're going to use and I can tell you how much, and where to order the planks from.
> 
> I think I'm going to start charging royalties on the bead box idea. Haha


I have a NewAir 280. I did a quick search for cedar online but am not sure what to even look for. If you could give me some recommendations that would be awesome!


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## rtrimbath (Sep 22, 2013)

ProjectSunfire said:


> I have a NewAir 280. I did a quick search for cedar online but am not sure what to even look for. If you could give me some recommendations that would be awesome!


Go onto amazon and search for "Spanish Cedar". It comes in various sizes from a company called "Quality Wood For Less". Now I'm not sure what the interior dimensions are for the 280, but you may need to get two different sizes to stretch the width of your cooler. It worked out perfectly for the 181 by using 2 - 5"x1/4"x48" planks. The 181 is 11" wide so a 1/2" gap on each side was acceptable. I think you may need a combination of the 3" wide and 5" wide. The length of the boards are 48", so you may need to purchase accordingly for the length of your cooler.

What are the interior dimensions of the 280?


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## ProjectSunfire (Mar 30, 2011)

rtrimbath said:


> Go onto amazon and search for "Spanish Cedar". It comes in various sizes from a company called "Quality Wood For Less". Now I'm not sure what the interior dimensions are for the 280, but you may need to get two different sizes to stretch the width of your cooler. It worked out perfectly for the 181 by using 2 - 5"x1/4"x48" planks. The 181 is 11" wide so a 1/2" gap on each side was acceptable. I think you may need a combination of the 3" wide and 5" wide. The length of the boards are 48", so you may need to purchase accordingly for the length of your cooler.
> 
> What are the interior dimensions of the 280?


I have no idea what the dimensions are. I will have to measure it tonight. I wonder if lining it with cedar is overkill with the drawers...but I love overkill and I can't imagine having too much cedar! plus it will give me something to do while waiting lol


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## sjcruiser36 (Dec 20, 2012)

Awesome wineador!!! Thanks for the tip on the bead drawer. I'm going to start mine in a few months. I have everything I need except the Heartfelt beads and activated charcoal.


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## ProjectSunfire (Mar 30, 2011)

The 280 interior dimensions are 14.5 inches wide, 24 inches high and 13 inches deep according to Newair. Will have to verify when I have a chance. Now on to googling for cedar


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## rtrimbath (Sep 22, 2013)

ProjectSunfire said:


> The 280 interior dimensions are 14.5 inches wide, 24 inches high and 13 inches deep according to Newair. Will have to verify when I have a chance. Now on to googling for cedar


Hmmm.... It might be a little trickier for you. If you were to use the planks I used found on Amazon, you would need (2) 5" wide combined with (1) 3" wide to leave you with .75" on each side, but the length needed (50") is more than the length of one of the boards (48"). An 1" short on both ends really wouldn't warrant buying 3 whole other planks in my opinion.

Oh, and yes this is all horrible overkill, but it looks pretty cool and smells great!


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## FlipMo (Oct 1, 2013)

rtrimbath said:


> Thanks for the replies! I think it's shaping up pretty nicely. One thing I'm having trouble is deciding where to put a hygrometer/s. there's plenty of room on the front of the drawers, but I can't bring myself to attach adhesive to them. I might just put one on the top that I'll have to open the cooler to see once I get my rh stabilized. We'll see. Here's a pic I forgot to post. I'll try to keep them coming when I get back.
> View attachment 48196


I'm with you on this. I also didn't want to directly apply the hygrometer to the Macassar Ebony hardwood fronts... it's too pretty to stick a hygrometer onto it, lol... I also didn't want to have to remove the sticky adhesive if I changed my mind and decided I wanted to change the location of the hygrometer in my wineador. So what I did was rest the hygrometer onto one of the drawer pulls near the top of the wineador. I also use a wireless weather system that I got from Acurite (I think that's the company) which shows the RH and TEMP in 2 places. The display on top shows the readings from the wireless part of the system. Usually people place the wireless part of the unit outside their window to show the current RH and TEMP for outside the house. I just put the wireless sensor on the empty space on the bottom of the wineador near where I keep the glass tray of HF beads. I put the display module on my night-stand next to my bed. The display module also shows the time and date and also the current temp in the room. It's very convenient in that I can check on my wineador's RH/Temp just by checking out the display module without having to go over to the wineador and read the Xikar digital hygrometer that's sitting on the drawer pull. I like my set up. Maybe you should do something like that?

And yeah, you shouldve gotten the larger wineador. Not much difference in price, but a lot more room for the sticks.


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## rtrimbath (Sep 22, 2013)

FlipMo said:


> I'm with you on this. I also didn't want to directly apply the hygrometer to the Macassar Ebony hardwood fronts... it's too pretty to stick a hygrometer onto it, lol... I also didn't want to have to remove the sticky adhesive if I changed my mind and decided I wanted to change the location of the hygrometer in my wineador. So what I did was rest the hygrometer onto one of the drawer pulls near the top of the wineador. I also use a wireless weather system that I got from Acurite (I think that's the company) which shows the RH and TEMP in 2 places. The display on top shows the readings from the wireless part of the system. Usually people place the wireless part of the unit outside their window to show the current RH and TEMP for outside the house. I just put the wireless sensor on the empty space on the bottom of the wineador near where I keep the glass tray of HF beads. I put the display module on my night-stand next to my bed. The display module also shows the time and date and also the current temp in the room. It's very convenient in that I can check on my wineador's RH/Temp just by checking out the display module without having to go over to the wineador and read the Xikar digital hygrometer that's sitting on the drawer pull. I like my set up. Maybe you should do something like that?
> 
> And yeah, you shouldve gotten the larger wineador. Not much difference in price, but a lot more room for the sticks.


This Acurite weather system sounds like the solution I've been looking for!! Any idea what the model number is that you're using or a picture of the display? I'm seeing a few different types of weather stations from Acurite on the market. I'm looking for the best fit now.


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## elricfate (Mar 2, 2013)

http://www.amazon.com/Ambient-Weather-WS-08-X2-8-Channel-Thermo-Hygrometer/dp/B00EW463SS/

That's the one I use. I calibrated it. One sensor in my safe, the other sensor in my Wineador.


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## ProjectSunfire (Mar 30, 2011)

elricfate said:


> Amazon.com - Ambient Weather WS-08-X2 Wireless Indoor/Outdoor 8-Channel Thermo-Hygrometer with Daily Min/Max Display with Two Remote Sensors - Weather Stations
> 
> That's the one I use. I calibrated it. One sensor in my safe, the other sensor in my Wineador.


would you guys please stop posting new cool stuff that I now have to go buy!!!


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## quo155 (Aug 10, 2010)

Thanks @FlipMo for mentioning what you did in regards to the weather station. I've been considering doing this with one I have laying around...I will now do this tonight and give it a shot!


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## rtrimbath (Sep 22, 2013)

elricfate said:


> Amazon.com - Ambient Weather WS-08-X2 Wireless Indoor/Outdoor 8-Channel Thermo-Hygrometer with Daily Min/Max Display with Two Remote Sensors - Weather Stations
> 
> That's the one I use. I calibrated it. One sensor in my safe, the other sensor in my Wineador.


I didn't realize it came with two sensors. So you can have one on top and one on bottom? I think you definitely found my solution!


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## elricfate (Mar 2, 2013)

Yea, you can add up to six more sensors to it. And the console shows min/max temp and humidity for the last 24 hours, resets at midnight, and you can have it cycle through all the different sensors on a five second per sensor scrolling cycle.


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## FlipMo (Oct 1, 2013)

This is the one I use...

AcuRite Digital Indoor / Outdoor Temperature & Humidity Monitor with Intelli-Time Clock 00592


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## rtrimbath (Sep 22, 2013)

FlipMo said:


> This is the one I use...
> 
> AcuRite Digital Indoor / Outdoor Temperature & Humidity Monitor with Intelli-Time Clock 00592


I like the look of that one better, but can it use multiple sensors?


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## elricfate (Mar 2, 2013)

Looks like it has one sensor with it, but it also looks like it only supports that one sensor :-/

Also I don't see how to calibrate it. Is there a way to do that?


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## FlipMo (Oct 1, 2013)

It only has one sensor. The manual it came with didn't show anything about any calibration needed. I just used it out of the box and haven't had any problems with it thus far.


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## rtrimbath (Sep 22, 2013)

I literally just got an email from Xikar about their PuroTemp multiple sensor hygrometer. Pretty much exactly what we are talking about. Coincidence? Just saw the price. Kind of expensive. $79.99 for unit and 1 sensor. $39.99 for each additional sensor.


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## SeanTheEvans (Dec 13, 2013)

rtrimbath said:


> I literally just got an email from Xikar about their new PuroTemp multiple sensor hygrometer. Pretty much exactly what we are talking about. Coincidence? Don't have a price on it yet, but if anyone has any info on the PuroTemp let me know. I'm highly interested because all my hygros are Xikar and work great.


Just got the same one. Then I realized that it was $80 for main unit and 1 sensor. $40 each sensor after that. So for all three sensors and the main unit $160? Yeah..... no. Not for me. No thanks. I'd get a real hygrometer at that price point.


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## elricfate (Mar 2, 2013)

SeanTheEvans said:


> Just got the same one. Then I realized that it was $80 for main unit and 1 sensor. $40 each sensor after that. So for all three sensors and the main unit $160? Yeah..... no. Not for me. No thanks. I'd get a real hygrometer at that price point.


And... uh... you still can't clibrate them, it appears. :-(


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## rtrimbath (Sep 22, 2013)

I think I've settled on this one.
Ambient Weather WS-07-X2 Big Digit 8-Channel Wireless Thermo-Hygrometer with Two Remote Sensors


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## rtrimbath (Sep 22, 2013)

In other news, I'm having a little issue with keeping the rh in my cooler level. The bottom of the wineador averages between 62-63% and the top stays between 64-65%. When the fan kicks on, both drop by 2-3%. Is there anything I can do to keep it in balance, or is this just the way it is?


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## elricfate (Mar 2, 2013)

rtrimbath said:


> In other news, I'm having a little issue with keeping the rh in my cooler level. The bottom of the wineador averages between 62-63% and the top stays between 64-65%. When the fan kicks on, both drop by 2-3%. Is there anything I can do to keep it in balance, or is this just the way it is?


I have Heartfelt beads in the bottom of mine in a tray, and I have two 8oz bags of HCM Cigar beads in my drawers. It tends to keep the whole thing level while the cooler is on. 65% through and through (remote hygrometer is on the bottom and I have a calibrated hygroset in the top for testing)


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## rtrimbath (Sep 22, 2013)

Right now I have 1 lb. HF beads on the bottom, 1/2 lb. in a media bag up top, and 4 2oz. Tubes in each drawer. The 1/2 lb. on top is dry to deal with the extra humidity that rises. Should I wet all of the beads? Or is there something else I may be doing wrong? I doubt a 2% swing is going to hurt anything, but if there's a way to keep it all in balance I'd like to know.


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## elricfate (Mar 2, 2013)

rtrimbath said:


> Right now I have 1 lb. HF beads on the bottom, 1/2 lb. in a media bag up top, and 4 2oz. Tubes in each drawer. The 1/2 lb. on top is dry to deal with the extra humidity that rises. Should I wet all of the beads? Or is there something else I may be doing wrong? I doubt a 2% swing is going to hurt anything, but if there's a way to keep it all in balance I'd like to know.


Well ultimately you have two forces acting in concert. The cooler (if it's on) is using a peltier to cool the air. This causes it to sink. The beads are making the air more humid until they reach equilibrium with the environment around them, the humid air wants to rise. In reality, the cooler air is always going to be a far greater acting factor than the humidity, so keeping a fan in the cooler (or the cooler turned on) to move air is the best way to keep the humidity uniform.

To be transparent about it, I'd say if you leave the beads up top alone, eventually they're going to reach equilibrium, but that's just forcing the beads on the bottom to work harder to make them that way. I'd just wet both sets until they're 50-60% clear and see what happens. More than likely if there's no air moving, it's going to take more effort on them to be the same (since the volumes and surface area differs from top to bottom).


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## rtrimbath (Sep 22, 2013)

elricfate said:


> To be transparent about it, I'd say if you leave the beads up top alone, eventually they're going to reach equilibrium, but that's just forcing the beads on the bottom to work harder to make them that way. I'd just wet both sets until they're 50-60% clear and see what happens. More than likely if there's no air moving, it's going to take more effort on them to be the same (since the volumes and surface area differs from top to bottom).


I am going to wet the top beads to see if there's a difference. I have an Oust fan I can add, but because of the tray I have up top it will only fit at the bottom. Not sure if it will help, but I'm going to give it a shot putting it at the bottom to stir the air at least. I'll check on everything in the morning and see if any progress has been made. Thanks for the info @elricfate.


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## rtrimbath (Sep 22, 2013)

I bought that Ambient Weather remote sensor hygrometer. I'll post picks and a little review when it arrives.


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## rtrimbath (Sep 22, 2013)

I can't seem to stabilize my rh. It is sticking around 64% up top and 61% on bottom. Should I add more beads? I thought 2 lbs. distributed throughout would be plenty.

Another thing I'm finding odd is both my hygrometers are reading at 68 degrees when the cooler says it is at 65. I've even tried dropping the temp lower just to see if I could get them to drop below 68 degrees but it won't. The fan turns on, the cooler temp reading goes down, but no temp drop on either of my hygrometers. Anyone else have this problem?


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## rtrimbath (Sep 22, 2013)

I've gotten the cooler temp to drop to 65 on my hygrometers by turning the temp down to 62. The only real reason I care about the temp is I don't want the cooler that i just bought to be broke.


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## elricfate (Mar 2, 2013)

Well, take the temp on your controller with a grain of salt. Remember that these coolers work on a peltier attached to a heatsink with a fan moving air situation. The ambient temperature in your house is going to affect the temperature inside the cooler. When you set it to 65, it's going to work as best it can to get to that temperature within a set of constraints that a logic controller has set (because it assumes it's already working in a 65ish degree home). 

Setting it lower means you will hit your target temp easier if your ambient temp is higher. I have a Koldfront, and at the highest setting on the temp selector (warmest) it gets down to 64-65 in my home, but I also keep my home at 69 most of the time.


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## ProjectSunfire (Mar 30, 2011)

rtrimbath said:


> I can't seem to stabilize my rh. It is sticking around 64% up top and 61% on bottom. Should I add more beads? I thought 2 lbs. distributed throughout would be plenty.
> 
> Another thing I'm finding odd is both my hygrometers are reading at 68 degrees when the cooler says it is at 65. I've even tried dropping the temp lower just to see if I could get them to drop below 68 degrees but it won't. The fan turns on, the cooler temp reading goes down, but no temp drop on either of my hygrometers. Anyone else have this problem?


are you positive your hygrometers are calibrated? I have tested mine a few times to see how accurate the temp gauge of the cooler is and it was dead on with both of my digital hygrometers at whatever temp I set it at. or maybe there is something is wrong with the thermo-electric cooler itself?


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## rtrimbath (Sep 22, 2013)

ProjectSunfire said:


> are you positive your hygrometers are calibrated? I have tested mine a few times to see how accurate the temp gauge of the cooler is and it was dead on with both of my digital hygrometers at whatever temp I set it at. or maybe there is something is wrong with the thermo-electric cooler itself?


I'm a 100% on the calibration (at least for rh). Could it be because my hygros are placed up against the glass? Maybe the temp up front is higher than the temp in back by the fan.

I was also thinking of either adding more beads or kitty litter in to help with the rh. Is there any problem with mixing beads and kitty litter in the same unit? I've dropped a ton on beads already and am not excited to spend any more.


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## elricfate (Mar 2, 2013)

rtrimbath said:


> I'm a 100% on the calibration (at least for rh). Could it be because my hygros are placed up against the glass? Maybe the temp up front is higher than the temp in back by the fan.
> 
> I was also thinking of either adding more beads or kitty litter in to help with the rh. Is there any problem with mixing beads and kitty litter in the same unit? I've dropped a ton on beads already and am not excited to spend any more.


My Ambient weather sensor matches my Hygroset II -- the temp in the back vs the temp up by the glass.

Also, I tend to mix KL in with mine without any issues. As long as you make sure that the RH is about the same between them there shouldn't be too much fighting.


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## ProjectSunfire (Mar 30, 2011)

rtrimbath said:


> I'm a 100% on the calibration (at least for rh). Could it be because my hygros are placed up against the glass? Maybe the temp up front is higher than the temp in back by the fan.
> 
> I was also thinking of either adding more beads or kitty litter in to help with the rh. Is there any problem with mixing beads and kitty litter in the same unit? I've dropped a ton on beads already and am not excited to spend any more.


I doubt the rh would differ that much from front to back in that volume of space. But you never know...not like any of this is exact science lol

I personally would not mix beads and KL. I do not think that KL will help regulate rh like beads will. I just ordered another pound of beads so I will have 2 1/2 lbs in mine when its set up. I am curious to see what problems I run into with this project. seems some people have no issues an others do. maybe it's because some of us are more neurotic than others


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## elricfate (Mar 2, 2013)

ProjectSunfire said:


> I do not think that KL will help regulate rh like beads will.


I'm interested in knowing why you think that.


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## ProjectSunfire (Mar 30, 2011)

elricfate said:


> I'm interested in knowing why you think that.


I really do not want to turn this into a beads vs KL debate...there seems to be enough of that on here already! I am in no way an expert on the subject and have never tried KL. I only use beads and have always had excellent results to the point that I hardly ever check the rh in any of my humidors. From what I have read & and been told KL does not absorb excessive humidity like beads can. So by mixing them I would just worry that regulating ability to be compromised.

But I am neurotic and obsessive so you can probably disregard my paranoia haha


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## elricfate (Mar 2, 2013)

ProjectSunfire said:


> I really do not want to turn this into a beads vs KL debate...there seems to be enough of that on here already! I am in no way an expert on the subject and have never tried KL. I only use beads and have always had excellent results to the point that I hardly ever check the rh in any of my humidors. From what I have read & and been told KL does not absorb excessive humidity like beads can. So by mixing them I would just worry that regulating ability to be compromised.
> 
> But I am neurotic and obsessive so you can probably disregard my paranoia haha


No worries, I really was just curious. The differences between KL and, say, something like HCM beads are very much their composition, one is silica with salts and the other is clay. But the differences between KL and something like HF beads aren't as broad. They're both silica based and they both have the same types of salts, it's the grade of silica used that's the main difference. I mixed mine in the sense that I run them all in an amalgamation inside the wineador, but in all honesty I don't think there's that much of an issue running them in the same tray so long as the RH potential is about the same for both.


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## ProjectSunfire (Mar 30, 2011)

elricfate said:


> No worries, I really was just curious. The differences between KL and, say, something like HCM beads are very much their composition, one is silica with salts and the other is clay. But the differences between KL and something like HF beads aren't as broad. They're both silica based and they both have the same types of salts, it's the grade of silica used that's the main difference. I mixed mine in the sense that I run them all in an amalgamation inside the wineador, but in all honesty I don't think there's that much of an issue running them in the same tray so long as the RH potential is about the same for both.


I really, really wish I could just buy a 5 lb bag of litter and not worry about it. I know plenty of people use it with great results. But I would always be bothered by it and I already have enough beads so its not really even an issue. The way I look at it is I have $1000's invested in cigars so spending $100 on beads and not worrying about them is worth it to me


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## jjashikki (Dec 19, 2013)

elricfate said:


> No worries, I really was just curious. The differences between KL and, say, something like HCM beads are very much their composition, one is silica with salts and the other is clay. But the differences between KL and something like HF beads aren't as broad. They're both silica based and they both have the same types of salts, it's the grade of silica used that's the main difference. I mixed mine in the sense that I run them all in an amalgamation inside the wineador, but in all honesty I don't think there's that much of an issue running them in the same tray so long as the RH potential is about the same for both.


Actually HCM beads are pretty much the same as the heartfelt beads. The guy that developed them is a member on Puff, not very active anymore, and he explained the differences between the HCM, heartfelts and basically any other silica desiccant. Basically HCM and heartfelt beads are the same thing but HCM beads have smaller pores and aren't treated with alcohol so they have a much higher capacity. The difference is that because of the alcohol treatments that heartfelts beads go through they're pretty much a constant 65% whereas HCM you can change the "set point" around. I won't go into it anymore since it's pretty much hearsay at this point but here's a link to the original thread.

http://www.cigarforums.net/forums/vb/cigar-accessory-discussion/182025-shilala-beads-3.html


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## elricfate (Mar 2, 2013)

jjashikki said:


> Actually HCM beads are pretty much the same as the heartfelt beads. The guy that developed them is a member on Puff, not very active anymore, and he explained the differences between the HCM, heartfelts and basically any other silica desiccant. Basically HCM and heartfelt beads are the same thing but HCM beads have smaller pores and aren't treated with alcohol so they have a much higher capacity. The difference is that because of the alcohol treatments that heartfelts beads go through they're pretty much a constant 65% whereas HCM you can change the "set point" around. I won't go into it anymore since it's pretty much hearsay at this point but here's a link to the original thread.
> 
> http://www.cigarforums.net/forums/vb/cigar-accessory-discussion/182025-shilala-beads-3.html


Funny that that thread states it's a silica product (HCS) but the HCM beads state they're not silica.

[HR][/HR]
HCM Cigar Beads -- FAQ
There is no PG (Propylene Glycol), salts, or silica in HCM beads. HCM Beads work using the simple principle of equilibrium. They have a much higher affinity for gathering and releasing water than silica beads; the construction of HCM beads allows for a far greater reservoir of water to be made available for use in a humidor.

[HR][/HR]

So now I wonder if he no longer offers (HCS) and has since moved on to HCM.

HCM Beads vs. Heartfelt - Humidor Forum - CigarPass.com

http://www.shilalasbeads.com/2010-02-20Rev-A-BeadInstructions.pdf



> These bags contain Humidity Controlling Molecular (
> HCM) beads. The beads are a 100% clay product
> with no chemical additives and are very safe and no
> n-toxic


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## jjashikki (Dec 19, 2013)

elricfate said:


> So now I wonder if he no longer offers (HCS) and has since moved on to HCM.


I'm pretty sure that @shilala is no longer involved in it and it's a new guy that uses them. From my interactions with him he doesn't seem to be as knowledgeable about the product but the product is still good. I've been using the 8oz tube in a 50 qt cooler for a couple months now and i'm really happy with the results. HCM vs Heartfelt vs HCS (i'm not even sure what these are, they were just mentioned a couple times in that old thread) vs kittylitter is such a dead horse and with so much speculation. If we ever get a material scientist as a member in here I for one would gladly bomb the bejezus out of him if he could shed some light on this. haha either way use what you have if it works.


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## SeanTheEvans (Dec 13, 2013)

jjashikki said:


> haha either way use what you have if it works.


*The* best way to end any bead/boveda/KL convo!


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## elricfate (Mar 2, 2013)

jjashikki said:


> I'm pretty sure that @shilala is no longer involved in it and it's a new guy that uses them. From my interactions with him he doesn't seem to be as knowledgeable about the product but the product is still good. I've been using the 8oz tube in a 50 qt cooler for a couple months now and i'm really happy with the results. HCM vs Heartfelt vs HCS (i'm not even sure what these are, they were just mentioned a couple times in that old thread) vs kittylitter is such a dead horse and with so much speculation. If we ever get a material scientist as a member in here I for one would gladly bomb the bejezus out of him if he could shed some light on this. haha either way use what you have if it works.


To your point, I believe HCM beads are just a bentonite clay. Same stuff used in the old "odor absorbing" kitty litter mixes (non-silica) -- if you've ever had a cat you would recognize the little tiny clay balls in it. Heartfelt are Type A silica and kitty litter is type B silica.

You can go on from there, or we can start a separate thread where the dead horse keeps getting beaten (though I think dropping some scientific knowledge might not hurt).

But really, use whatever works for you. I used to just use distilled water and plant (water) beads. They worked for what I needed them for at the time. I've since moved on to using several methods for reaching a standard equilibrium, and they work really well together. Any one of them would work on its own, but they're all working together is a thing of beauty. It's why I'm equal opportunity when people talk about their humidification preferences.


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## rtrimbath (Sep 22, 2013)

I have an extra 1/2 lb. of beads left that I might add to the top. Maybe a pound on the bottom and a pound up top with 1/2 pound spread between the drawers will help. If that doesn't work I'll add some KL to the bottom.

I think @ProjectSunfire is onto something with me being neurotic. It's more than likely that there is no problem at all with the rh and temp in my cooler, but I am just over thinking things.


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## ProjectSunfire (Mar 30, 2011)

rtrimbath said:


> I think @ProjectSunfire is onto something with me being neurotic. It's more than likely that there is no problem at all with the rh and temp in my cooler, but I am just over thinking things.


I don't think I said that you were neurotic! But I definitely am and over think everything. I used to freak out every single time my rh changed a few points. now I don't even look anymore


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## elricfate (Mar 2, 2013)

ProjectSunfire said:


> I don't think I said that you were neurotic! But I definitely am and over think everything. I used to freak out every single time my rh changed a few points. now I don't even look anymore


hahaha. :der:


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## rtrimbath (Sep 22, 2013)

ProjectSunfire said:


> I don't think I said that you were neurotic! But I definitely am and over think everything. I used to freak out every single time my rh changed a few points. now I don't even look anymore


You're right that you never said it. Maybe it just took you to say something about yourself to realize that I am in the same boat! I think in a year I'll look back and laugh at how worried I was about my rh and temp.


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## ProjectSunfire (Mar 30, 2011)

rtrimbath said:


> You're right that you never said it. Maybe it just took you to say something about yourself to realize that I am in the same boat! I think in a year I'll look back and laugh at how worried I was about my rh and temp.


nothing wrong with being cautious over our collections. but when we start to obsess over the minor things ...that's when it gets a little crazy haha


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## ProjectSunfire (Mar 30, 2011)

as I am waiting for the drawers to arrive I have been trying to get rid of the plastic smell. so right now I have baking soda and lots of cedar in there. seems to be working well. just for the hell of it I thought I would plug it in and set it at 64 degrees and then put in a few hygrometers to see what the readings were. After 2 days it is dead on 64 degrees top & bottom. but the crazy thing to me is that humidity is at 65% top & bottom. which is always my target in all my humidors but that's with several pounds of beads. 

Just can't believe I'm getting 65% with zero humidity devices!


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## rtrimbath (Sep 22, 2013)

ProjectSunfire said:


> as I am waiting for the drawers to arrive I have been trying to get rid of the plastic smell. so right now I have baking soda and lots of cedar in there. seems to be working well. just for the hell of it I thought I would plug it in and set it at 64 degrees and then put in a few hygrometers to see what the readings were. After 2 days it is dead on 64 degrees top & bottom. but the crazy thing to me is that humidity is at 65% top & bottom. which is always my target in all my humidors but that's with several pounds of beads.
> 
> Just can't believe I'm getting 65% with zero humidity devices!


It's funny, it looks like I traded humidity problems for no plastic smell, and you have the opposite haha. Not sure which is better!


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## rtrimbath (Sep 22, 2013)

So, here's my current setup: 1 lb. 65% Heartfelt Beads, 2 Oust fans (I planned on putting 1 on top and had to remove the cover to fit), 2x 1/2 lb. mesh bags filled with KL.


Here's the Kitty Litter I used in case anyone is wondering. I microwaved it to get it down to 65% rh.


I'm hoping this will help stabilize rh at the bottom.

(Copied and Pasted wrong pic at first. OOPS!)


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## rtrimbath (Sep 22, 2013)

Got my Ambient Weather remote hygrometer in the mail today and am in the process of calibrating it. All seems right with it at the moment. I'll let everyone know how well it works after a few days of use.


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## rtrimbath (Sep 22, 2013)

I found that the Ambient Weather hygrometer display fit perfectly into an empty Trinidad Reyes 12 count box, and I thought it looked pretty cool that way. I'm finding all kinds of ways to reuse empty cigar boxes.


I keep all my accessories on top of my wineador as well.


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## Cigar-Enthusiast (Feb 2, 2014)

Great progress on the wineador! It looks awesome. 
I love how you recycled stogies boxes. It's a great idea and one that may steal in the distant future.


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## elricfate (Mar 2, 2013)

rtrimbath said:


> I keep all my accessories on top of my wineador as well.


Funnily enough, so do I. And I keep them all in a cigar box. I also keep another humidor up there for my infused cigars.


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## rtrimbath (Sep 22, 2013)

I'm having a hell of a time with my rh and hygrometers. I recalibrated all my hygrometers just to be safe, and now every one shows a different percentage. My old ones are saying 62% up top and 66% on bottom. The new Ambient Weather hygrometers are reading 70% up top and 73% on bottom! The weird thing is when I put them all back into the calibration bags, they read 75%. I'm at a loss.


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## SeanTheEvans (Dec 13, 2013)

hmmm.....

could be varying update times/sensitivities? I'd suggest calibrating them to the RH you plan on keeping (if possible). I've read that can help, as the farther away you get from your orig calibration, the more "off" they can be. remember, these are all still cheap toys unless you get an NIST certified hygrometer....

Besides throwing them all back into 1 bag for a day (or two) to see what's what, not sure what to tell you- best of luck getting it all to work though


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## elricfate (Mar 2, 2013)

Another thing to consider is that the Ambient Weathers update once a minute, the other cigar specific ones probably update every ten seconds. If every single one of them is reading 75% in the same exact environment, something's wrong or you're not giving them enough time to equalize in the wineador. I know that my Hygroset is way more sensitive (because of the ten second update period vs the minute) than my Ambient Weather to RH swings, but that's just timing really. They both read dead the same in different parts of my 28 bottle wineador. The hygroset is up front on the top shelf and the ambient weather is all the way in the back (attached with velcro to the back wall) and the middle of the wineador.


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## rtrimbath (Sep 22, 2013)

SeanTheEvans said:


> hmmm.....
> 
> could be varying update times/sensitivities? I'd suggest calibrating them to the RH you plan on keeping (if possible). I've read that can help, as the farther away you get from your orig calibration, the more "off" they can be. remember, these are all still cheap toys unless you get an NIST certified hygrometer....
> 
> Besides throwing them all back into 1 bag for a day (or two) to see what's what, not sure what to tell you- best of luck getting it all to work though


I wish I would have known about NIST certified hygrometers 2 weeks ago. Uuuhhhg!


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## rtrimbath (Sep 22, 2013)

GO CATS!!!


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## rtrimbath (Sep 22, 2013)

I've got the readings to more or less even out with my hygrometers, so I'm beyond happy about that. I'm still having trouble with my overall rh distribution though. I'm sure everyone is sick of hearing about it by now. 71% at the bottom and 63% up top. The only thing I can think to do is add more beads or KL up top. Not sure how to bring the rh down at the bottom though. I swear I never thought building a wineador would be so frustrating!!!


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## SeanTheEvans (Dec 13, 2013)

That is kind of confusing, as I'd expect higher RH at the top...

I don't have much KL experience though, so perhaps if you dried out the KL on the bottom via Tony's oven method you could bring down RH?

This has been an exciting project to watch, try to relax man, it's been enjoyable for us to see your progress through this build, it should be enjoyable for you as well! I know how it can be though when things just. dont. work.

So sit back, have a drink, take a think, and read around, someone has got to have had this problem before, and the answers may be hiding in some deep dark entombed thread... zombie time?


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## elricfate (Mar 2, 2013)

An oven is good for bringing down the RH, a microwave is better/faster. Stick it in there, give it 30 seconds, wipe down the microwave, 30 more, wipe down, let it cool off, check RH. In general the microwave causes the water to turn into steam, which condenses inside the microwave. It, literally, forces the water out of the KL.


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## Joe Bonzo (Dec 20, 2013)

Really awesome build, thanks for sharing!


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## rtrimbath (Sep 22, 2013)

SeanTheEvans said:


> So sit back, have a drink, take a think, and read around, someone has got to have had this problem before, and the answers may be hiding in some deep dark entombed thread... zombie time?


Good and sound advice indeed.

I'm glad everyone is enjoying the build and maybe even gaining some knowledge and tips for their own wineador build. Believe it or not I am having a great time and I think building this wineador is the best idea I've had in a really long time. Like I said before, my only regret is not going for a 28 bottle.

And here's why. On my last trip to my local B&M Bloom's in Pittsburgh, they had a BOGO box deal on anything Oliva. 2 boxes of Oliva V Torpedo and some Ligas later, my cooler's almost full. Here's a pic of the damage.


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## rtrimbath (Sep 22, 2013)

I put one of the boxes away for aging and the other one in my Oliva Wineadrawer. I had to kick my Nubs out and into some Tupperware due to lack of room. Here's how the wineadrawer looks now.


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## ejewell (Feb 19, 2013)

rtrimbath said:


> Good and sound advice indeed.
> 
> I'm glad everyone is enjoying the build and maybe even gaining some knowledge and tips for their own wineador build. Believe it or not I am having a great time and I think building this wineador is the best idea I've had in a really long time. Like I said before, my only regret is not going for a 28 bottle.
> 
> And here's why. On my last trip to my local B&M Bloom's in Pittsburgh, they had a BOGO box deal on anything Oliva. 2 boxes of Oliva V Torpedo and some Ligas later, my cooler's almost full. Here's a pic of the damage.


I love blooms. It is dangerous when I go there. my last trip left me walking out with a box of sharks and then some. haha.

I haven't checked this thread in a while but seeing your recent updates.... I'ma have to figure out your IP or something so I can hunt down that wineador and scrape off that horrid decal.

:fish:

Go big orange.

or.. We are!


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## elricfate (Mar 2, 2013)

Next time I'm in Pittsburgh I need to stop spending so much time eating at DeLuca's and Primanti's and buying stuff to bring home to Cbus from Penn Mac and hit up Bloom Cigar Company... I can't believe I've never done it, of all the Pittsburghian things I've done.


edit to add: I HAVE done leaf and bean, however.


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## rtrimbath (Sep 22, 2013)

elricfate said:


> Next time I'm in Pittsburgh I need to stop spending so much time eating at DeLuca's and Primanti's and buying stuff to bring home to Cbus from Penn Mac and hit up Bloom Cigar Company... I can't believe I've never done it, of all the Pittsburghian things I've done.
> 
> edit to add: I HAVE done leaf and bean, however.


After going to Bloom's it has become impossible for me to go anywhere else. Their walk-in humidor is about 20x the size of leaf and bean's. No joke. I'm not trying to advertise, but you have to check it out!

Oh, and sorry @ejewell, but the UK decal stays!


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## rtrimbath (Sep 22, 2013)

I think my humidity problem is being caused by lack of airflow due to the tray on top. When I mover the sensor to the other side, which is closer to the 1lb. Of beads, the rh read 67%. As opposed to 62% on the opposite side of the tray without the beads. It sounds like common sense really. I just wish I could get everything to even out.


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## rtrimbath (Sep 22, 2013)

So I've all but given up on my humidity problems. The bottom drawer stays around 70%, the middle two around 63-65%, and 62% on top. At least they aren't dangerously high or dangerously low. My only guess is airflow problems. Anywhose, thank you to everyone for all the tips and helpful remarks. I hope everyone enjoyed the build as much as I did.


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## elricfate (Mar 2, 2013)

rtrimbath said:


> So I've all but given up on my humidity problems. The bottom drawer stays around 70%, the middle two around 63-65%, and 62% on top. At least they aren't dangerously high or dangerously low. My only guess is airflow problems. Anywhose, thank you to everyone for all the tips and helpful remarks. I hope everyone enjoyed the build as much as I did.


If you ever get truly concerned... I can think of at least one method for redistribution of humid air that would work. It involves a fan, a funnel-shaped adapter to go from the fan's input size to the size of a 1/2" diameter PVC tube, some elbows, a drill, and some mounting brackets for the back wall of the wineador. Then all you need is a timer to set up a schedule to have it run for a minute or two every hour or so and it should push the air from directly over the beads (where it will be the most humid until it rises naturally) into the backs of the drawers.


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## rtrimbath (Sep 22, 2013)

elricfate said:


> If you ever get truly concerned... I can think of at least one method for redistribution of humid air that would work. It involves a fan, a funnel-shaped adapter to go from the fan's input size to the size of a 1/2" diameter PVC tube, some elbows, a drill, and some mounting brackets for the back wall of the wineador. Then all you need is a timer to set up a schedule to have it run for a minute or two every hour or so and it should push the air from directly over the beads (where it will be the most humid until it rises naturally) into the backs of the drawers.


I'm not sure I'm quite to that point, but I do appreciate the info. I will keep it in mind, thanks.

I raised the temp 1 degree to 66, and it seems to have evened out the rh in 3 out of 4 drawers to 65. Still a little high in the bottom and a little dry up top, but tolerable. I was surprised 1 degree made that much of a difference, but it has.

Oh, and I almost forgot. C-A-T-S! CATS! CATS! CATS!


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## elricfate (Mar 2, 2013)

rtrimbath said:


> I'm not sure I'm quite to that point, but I do appreciate the info. I will keep it in mind, thanks.
> 
> I raised the temp 1 degree to 66, and it seems to have evened out the rh in 3 out of 4 drawers to 65. Still a little high in the bottom and a little dry up top, but tolerable. I was surprised 1 degree made that much of a difference, but it has.
> 
> Oh, and I almost forgot. C-A-T-S! CATS! CATS! CATS!


Could be the difference between the fan running intermittently and running constantly, enough to push air around the entire cabin of the wine cooler.

Also, they're going to have a tough time with UConn. And I think the Gators are going to come back and stomp the bejesus out of Wisconsin to prove a point.


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## rtrimbath (Sep 22, 2013)

elricfate said:


> Could be the difference between the fan running intermittently and running constantly, enough to push air around the entire cabin of the wine cooler.
> 
> Also, they're going to have a tough time with UConn. And I think the Gators are going to come back and stomp the bejesus out of Wisconsin to prove a point.


I agree with you on all counts...

As for UK, Just let me have my moment in the sun haha. I could be singing quite a different tune in a week, but a boy can dream.


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## WNYTony (Feb 12, 2014)

Great thread ! Lots of good info - will save all of us future wineador owners some headache, time and money for sure.
I am picking up a Newair 281 later this week and I am going to be hitting up Amazon for that cedar lining and doing the top, back and bottom like you have done. Love that look and more cedar has got to be like more bacon - never a bad thing.
I saw another build that used some computer fans running off a timer to switch on for 15-30 minutes 3-4 times a day and I think I am going to try that route since I see how you have upped your circulation to level things out.
I also bought that same Ambient remote rh a few months ago and love it. That will save sticking anything to the drawer fronts and having to open it to read rh.
I hope mine comes out nearly as nice as yours, but I cannot, will not, never no never have a UK sticker on it ! I'm here in Western NY and our local team is St. Bonaventure, whom you should recall took you guys to a double overtime (5/12 matchup) NCAA game back in 2000 before you finally snuck by us. It was a great game and we almost pulled it out.... ahhh memories.
Great job on the build and the thread - thanks for sharing the knowledge.


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## rtrimbath (Sep 22, 2013)

WNYTony said:


> Great thread ! Lots of good info - will save all of us future wineador owners some headache, time and money for sure.
> I am picking up a Newair 281 later this week and I am going to be hitting up Amazon for that cedar lining and doing the top, back and bottom like you have done. Love that look and more cedar has got to be like more bacon - never a bad thing.
> I saw another build that used some computer fans running off a timer to switch on for 15-30 minutes 3-4 times a day and I think I am going to try that route since I see how you have upped your circulation to level things out.
> I also bought that same Ambient remote rh a few months ago and love it. That will save sticking anything to the drawer fronts and having to open it to read rh.
> ...


I'm really glad you got something positive out of this thread. That was definitely my intent. I really think lining the cooler with scedar is a great idea. It gives it that little extra bit of panache. 
H 
Sorry you don't like the UK logo, but I guess we can't all be perfect.

I'll be excited to see your build on Puff soon enough.


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## ejewell (Feb 19, 2013)

rtrimbath said:


> I'm really glad you got something positive out of this thread. That was definitely my intent. I really think lining the cooler with scedar is a great idea. It gives it that little extra bit of panache.
> H
> Sorry you don't like the UK logo, but I guess we can't all be perfect.
> 
> I'll be excited to see your build on Puff soon enough.


Haha. Roger is catching serious flak for his UK sticker.

Saw something tonight that reminded me of you... it was a UK banner that said

"lets make Michigan our Bitchigain." can't find it now though...


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## WNYTony (Feb 12, 2014)

Thanks and good luck this weekend


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## rtrimbath (Sep 22, 2013)

UK may not win the championship or even make the finals, but they have sure made this a fun tournament for me. I am going to pick out a victory cigar just in case they do win though. There's no reason to not be prepared haha.


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## WNYTony (Feb 12, 2014)

rtrimbath said:


> If you want to line your cooler with cedar, you might want to do some tests on what to attach the panels with. Liquid Nails caused a lot of warping, but it definitely does the job. I would maybe suggest some kind of epoxy, but that could be expensive. Let me know what size cooler you're going to use and I can tell you how much, and where to order the planks from.
> 
> I think I'm going to start charging royalties on the bead box idea. Haha


Love the look of the cedar on the top, back and bottom and going to flatter you (and others) with imitation.
Thanks for the tip on the Liquid Nails - I would have tried that as well so you saved me. 
I'm thinking about using the wood Gorilla Glue. Meant for wood and says all odorless and safe.
Did you have to use any braces or pressure past the hold in place for 5-10 min ? Just wondering how you did yours.

Also love the box idea and was planning on doing something similar. Very nice build, thanks for sharing.


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## elricfate (Mar 2, 2013)

WNYTony said:


> Love the look of the cedar on the top, back and bottom and going to flatter you (and others) with imitation.
> Thanks for the tip on the Liquid Nails - I would have tried that as well so you saved me.
> I'm thinking about using the wood Gorilla Glue. Meant for wood and says all odorless and safe.
> Did you have to use any braces or pressure past the hold in place for 5-10 min ? Just wondering how you did yours.
> ...


I would suggest food grade silicone for affixing it, but that's me.


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## rtrimbath (Sep 22, 2013)

elricfate said:


> I would suggest food grade silicone for affixing it, but that's me.


One of the multitude of times I wish I had listened to the advice from Puff and not the guy at Home Depot!


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## WNYTony (Feb 12, 2014)

elricfate said:


> I would suggest food grade silicone for affixing it, but that's me.


I have seen that before but can't find it. I did find the aquarium rated silicone and used that on a glasstop humi and that worked ok but I figured that was more of a sealant and less of an adhesive. Obviously the back and bottom are not that big of a concern but the underside of the top is where I would think an adhesive would be better.

I also plan on getting the wood up to rh before affixing it, which is a tip I read here on Puff that makes good sense.

The silicone will have enough adhesive properties attaching to "wet" wood ?


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## elricfate (Mar 2, 2013)

DAP 2.8-oz. Silicone Aquarium Sealant-00688 at The Home Depot

Aquarium grade is the same thing. "Food safe" is what you're looking for. As for sticking it to wet wood, I don't rightly know to be honest. You might have to brace it for the full 24 hours. I would think if you used enough of it, there might not be an issue, but you're attaching it to smooth plastic from a wet wood surface, so testing might be needed.


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## rtrimbath (Sep 22, 2013)

I drilled some 1/4" holes in the tray I got from cheap humidors to try and increase air flow on my top shelf. Not sure if it will work, but they look good at least.

I drilled the holes on both sides.


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## rtrimbath (Sep 22, 2013)

rtrimbath said:


> I drilled some 1/4" holes...


They are 1/2" holes not 1/4". My mistake.


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## WNYTony (Feb 12, 2014)

elricfate said:


> DAP 2.8-oz. Silicone Aquarium Sealant-00688 at The Home Depot
> 
> Aquarium grade is the same thing. "Food safe" is what you're looking for. As for sticking it to wet wood, I don't rightly know to be honest. You might have to brace it for the full 24 hours. I would think if you used enough of it, there might not be an issue, but you're attaching it to smooth plastic from a wet wood surface, so testing might be needed.


The Gorilla wood glue I plan to use is listed as "FDA compliant for indirect food contact".
Will have to post how it works to help or warn others as the case may be.
That smell from the silicone just drives me nuts !


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## WNYTony (Feb 12, 2014)

rtrimbath said:


> I drilled some 1/4" holes in the tray I got from cheap humidors to try and increase air flow on my top shelf. Not sure if it will work, but they look good at least.
> 
> I drilled the holes on both sides.


Nice job on those. I ordered the vents in mine from Forrest. Can only help as I see it.


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## rtrimbath (Sep 22, 2013)

WNYTony said:


> Nice job on those. I ordered the vents in mine from Forrest. Can only help as I see it.


Yeah I have the vented drawers. It's definitely a decision I don't regret. This is just the tray that sits on the top shelf.


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## WNYTony (Feb 12, 2014)

Nice - I was thinking I may do a tray too as I'm not a big box buyer. Will keep this in mind, although I doubt mine would be lined up as nicely as that !

Congrats on the win by the way - you guys going to do it ?


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## rtrimbath (Sep 22, 2013)

WNYTony said:


> Nice - I was thinking I may do a tray too as I'm not a big box buyer. Will keep this in mind, although I doubt mine would be lined up as nicely as that !
> 
> Congrats on the win by the way - you guys going to do it ?


Here's the line-up of the potential candidates I plan to smoke to celebrate if the Cats do pull off the impossible.

I plan on smoking one win or lose, but God I hope they win!

(I'm not able to show a photo of the No. 2, so I left the band in its place.)


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## WNYTony (Feb 12, 2014)

rtrimbath said:


> Here's the line-up of the potential candidates I plan to smoke to celebrate if the Cats do pull off the impossible.
> 
> I plan on smoking one win or lose, but God I hope they win!
> 
> (I'm not able to show a photo of the No. 2, so I left the band in its place.)


Damn that's a nice lineup ! Now I may have to actually root for UK ! 
The one you'll smoke if they lose is a Gurkha, right ? ha ha


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## rtrimbath (Sep 22, 2013)

WNYTony said:


> Damn that's a nice lineup ! Now I may have to actually root for UK !
> The one you'll smoke if they lose is a Gurkha, right ? ha ha


Lets not be too hard on ourselves!


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## rtrimbath (Sep 22, 2013)

Oh well. I'm still going to smoke the Feral Flying Pig. God damn that was an ugly game for UK fans. 12 missed free throws!!! *&[email protected]!!! 🙈


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## WNYTony (Feb 12, 2014)

They had a damn good run. 
Hopefully the Pig will help to ease the pain my friend.


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## rtrimbath (Sep 22, 2013)

WNYTony said:


> They had a damn good run.
> Hopefully the Pig will help to ease the pain my friend.


Yeah they did. Especially when you figure in that three weeks ago I would have been happy if they made it past the first round! It will be interesting to see if any of the Freshman decide to stay. I still love the Cats and in case anyone is wondering, the decal stays!


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## WNYTony (Feb 12, 2014)

Roger - did the 181 have the little plastic tabs in the front of the shelf slots for the wine racks like the 281 does ? And if so do you have to remove them for Forrest's drawers to fit properly ?
My spanish cedar arrived yesterday for the inside lining - hope it turns out as nice as yours looks. It smelled great sitting here in my office all day !


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## rtrimbath (Sep 22, 2013)

WNYTony said:


> Roger - did the 181 have the little plastic tabs in the front of the shelf slots for the wine racks like the 281 does ? And if so do you have to remove them for Forrest's drawers to fit properly ?
> My spanish cedar arrived yesterday for the inside lining - hope it turns out as nice as yours looks. It smelled great sitting here in my office all day !


There were no plastic tabs in front of mine. The drawers slid right into the slots.

The cedar lining definitely takes a little effort, but I'm sure you'll be pleased with the results. It definitely makes the inside of your cooler smell great, and I imagine it helps hold humidity as well.


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## rtrimbath (Sep 22, 2013)

I've been having major problems with my rh. The bottom has spiked to around 73%. I have taken out all of the media on the bottom and it is still spiking. I have no idea of what to do and am actually considering moving everything on the bottom shelves into Tupperware till I can figure this out. Anyone have any ideas to help correct this?

P.S. My drain hole is already plugged.


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## Indy-hp (Feb 22, 2014)

I'd try placing some dry beads or KL in the bottom to absorb the excess moisture.


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## rtrimbath (Sep 22, 2013)

Indy-hp said:


> I'd try placing some dry beads or KL in the bottom to absorb the excess moisture.


I'm going to try that now.


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## Tmonte (May 11, 2014)

rtrimbath said:


> I'm going to try that now.


Off topic question but from your first post... I just received my shelves from Forrest. The blood wood fronts were also marred by the shrink wrap on 4 of the shelves. How did you resolve the issue? Thanks in advance!


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## rtrimbath (Sep 22, 2013)

Tmonte said:


> Off topic question but from your first post... I just received my shelves from Forrest. The blood wood fronts were also marred by the shrink wrap on 4 of the shelves. How did you resolve the issue? Thanks in advance!


He offered to replace the shelves, but I really didn't feel like waiting another 3 months. Looking back I wish I would have pressed the issue a little more and maybe got some sort of a refund, but it's too late now. I contemplated refinishing them myself, but my luck I would do more harm than good.


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## rtrimbath (Sep 22, 2013)

I dried about 2 lbs of KL in the microwave for about 2 minutes to get it nice and dry. After putting it in for the night, it's brought the rh down to about 70% on the bottom and 66% in the bottom drawer.

The outside rh is around 44% right now, so I'm not sure what's the problem. Plus being that the cooler is airtight, I'm not sure that should even matter.

The only thing I can think of is the drain hole not being plugged completely by the electrical tape I used. I'm thinking of replugging the hole with silicone if all else fails.


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## rtrimbath (Sep 22, 2013)

Does anyone have any tips for drying out Heartfelt Beads? I'm afraid if I Microwave them like KL they will crack and break apart.

Just found the thread that answers my question. I'm going to try out baking them at 170 degrees. We'll see how that works.


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## C.Scott (Mar 28, 2014)

rtrimbath said:


> Does anyone have any tips for drying out Heartfelt Beads? I'm afraid if I Microwave them like KL they will crack and break apart.
> 
> Just found the thread that answers my question. I'm going to try out baking them at 170 degrees. We'll see how that works.


If you're getting different RH in the different zones in the wineador, you might try adding a fan that helps circulate air, if you haven't already. Some people put their fans on a timer so it runs a few minutes every hour, others (such as myself) have a small fan run 24/7, that turns off when the door opens (using a door switch) to keep it from blowing out all the cold humid air. If you only fix them problem by putting dry beads in the "wet zone", the problem will happen again when those beads get saturated, and you'll have to dry your beads again.

As far as drying the beads, the thought of baking them scares me, although it might be fine. HF does say that the beads can experience "shock", causing them to break, when you add water to them too fast - the same might happen with drying them out too fast and too hot? Just guessing here. I still think I'd rather lay them out in a thin layer on a cookie sheet and put them in the sun, I can't imagine it would take more than a couple hours.


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## rtrimbath (Sep 22, 2013)

C.Scott said:


> If you're getting different RH in the different zones in the wineador, you might try adding a fan that helps circulate air, if you haven't already. Some people put their fans on a timer so it runs a few minutes every hour, others (such as myself) have a small fan run 24/7, that turns off when the door opens (using a door switch) to keep it from blowing out all the cold humid air. If you only fix them problem by putting dry beads in the "wet zone", the problem will happen again when those beads get saturated, and you'll have to dry your beads again.
> 
> As far as drying the beads, the thought of baking them scares me, although it might be fine. HF does say that the beads can experience "shock", causing them to break, when you add water to them too fast - the same might happen with drying them out too fast and too hot? Just guessing here. I still think I'd rather lay them out in a thin layer on a cookie sheet and put them in the sun, I can't imagine it would take more than a couple hours.


I have two Oust fans and I think there is just not enough room for the air to circulate.

After drying the beads out in the oven they turned a yellowish brown, but when I put them back into my cooler they brought the rh back into line within 3 hours. Ugly, but effective.

I do get what you're saying though. Drying the beads out may act as more of a bandaid than an actual fix, but I was at a loss of what else to do.


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## rtrimbath (Sep 22, 2013)

So after putting the dry beads in the bottom, the humidity has been holding 67% pretty stable, but the humidity up top has dropped down to 57%. I'm to the point of just giving up and leaving it where it is now. I'm very frustrated. At this point the cigars in my coolidor are better off than the ones in my wineador.


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## WNYTony (Feb 12, 2014)

Sorry to hear about all your issues Roger. Still waiting on my drawers from Forrest, but have 4 trays in mine now on the wine racks. I have noticed that my bottom and the shelf right in front of the rear fan tend to run 4-5% lower in rh than the top or lower middle. I have 1lb Heartfelt beads on the bottom of the unit with a computer fan circulating air upwards a few times a day so for me it seems to be right in the fan areas where I notice it. I'm not messing around with it until I get the drawers in and then I'll be fine tuning everything and hope I have better luck that you seem to be having. Will make sure to post back anything I find that works and will be watching your efforts as well.
Good luck with it.


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## Indy-hp (Feb 22, 2014)

An air circulation fan on a timer to run for ten minutes every 4-8 hours seems a reasonable solution


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## C.Scott (Mar 28, 2014)

Indy-hp said:


> An air circulation fan on a timer to run for ten minutes every 4-8 hours seems a reasonable solution


Agreed. He says he already has 2 fans running, but is concerned that maybe the airflow just isn't very good in there.

I think trying to battle 2 different climate zones in a wineador is a losing battle. You will never get them both to be the RH you want at the same time unless you solve your airflow problem. Here are some possible options:

-Reduce the depth of your shelves a little bit, so that air can pass freely from top-to-bottom along the back and/or front of the wineador.

-Somehow increase the airflow through the shelves themselves. Maybe partition off a small area in each shelf where there won't be any cigars blocking the gaps between slats.

-Install more fans, or move the one's you've got to better positions. Think of a vortex: If you have a fan in the bottom front that blows upward, and a fan in the top back that blows downward, you'll create a circular vortex allowing quite a lot of air movement. Whereas, if you only have 1 or 2 fans in the same location, blowing the same direction, then you'll only be circulating the air that is near the fans. If that still isn't enough, add another fan in the bottom rear that blows forward, and another one in the top front that blows rearward. Again, you may need to modify your shelves in order for air to be able to get passed around in the wineador.

Your fans and airflow should look more like this:

||-------->

<--------||

Rather than this:

||------->

||------->

Sorry for the crude ascii sketch 

Also, if your fans are on a timer, you should increase the frequency that they come on. A few minutes a couple times a day won't be enough to battle your problem, I think it should be more like 15 minutes every hour. Or ditch the timer entirely... Mine runs 24/7, not on a timer, and has not had any problems resulting from that.


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## rtrimbath (Sep 22, 2013)

Thanks for all of the feedback guys. The hardest thing about the location of my fans is finding room to put them in such a small cooler. I am going to try placing my Oust fans in different spots, but it's going to be a challenge. Something else I was thinking of was maybe supplementing my HF beads with 65% Boveda packs.

I'll make some adjustments and see how it goes.


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## JargonScott (Jan 28, 2014)

A+!


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## streetz166 (May 20, 2014)

Yes, I've read somewhere that not pushing your draws all the way back helped stabilize RH throughout the wineador.


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## rtrimbath (Sep 22, 2013)

streetz166 said:


> Yes, I've read somewhere that not pushing your draws all the way back helped stabilize RH throughout the wineador.


Yeah I've heard that too, but it seems my handle pulls stick out to far to pull them forward.

I've decided to remove the tray from the top to allow better air flow up top. I'm going to reserve that space for coffins now.

It's been about 2 weeks since I dried out my beads and it seems the humidity is already slowly on the rise (about 1% every two weeks). Changing the fan orientation as seemed to be a big help though.


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