# Stonehaven in a tin ... nice effort



## Sam_Wheat (Oct 7, 2010)

Just a notice to those who don't know, Esoterica does not release Stonehaven in tins.

Sealed Esoterica Stonehaven Pipe Tin Tobacco 1/2oz - eBay (item 220751041408 end time Mar-08-11 13:29:49 PST)


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## TXsmoker (Sep 6, 2010)

There was a thread about this guy a few weeks ago. Someone told him about this site, and he came to defend himself. He is repackaging stuff and selling it. Its only a half ounce tin.


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## indigosmoke (Sep 1, 2009)

I wonder if this is the same guy who was at it a few weeks ago and who ripped off Eric from Tamp&Puffs logo? I notice he's also got some FVF and Penzance in round tins. LOL.


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## Jivey (Dec 6, 2010)

It is. I remember the name... He is the reason BOTL that would like to purchase these blends, for their own consumption, cannot get them.


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## gahdzila (Apr 29, 2010)

> While the package has never been opened, the tobacco inside is not for consumption.


Huh?!?


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## TXsmoker (Sep 6, 2010)

Fleabay rules, no tobacco for sale, but "collectable packaging" seems to be ok. He is lying though, as those arent original tins. I signed on and reported him.


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## indigosmoke (Sep 1, 2009)

Well, I reported his auctions. Not that it will do any good. Even though a blind man could see what he is doing and that he is violation of their own, so called, "policies", I'm sure eBay will just wash their hands of it and take the profit. They don't seem to have any problem with folks who sell collectable "bags" of Stonhaven and Penzance. We'll see.


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## Jack Straw (Nov 20, 2008)

Reported this one, just as I have every single one of his tobacco auctions I have seen. 

All his old auctions were removed by ebay, that I saw anyway.


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## CWL (Mar 25, 2010)

indigosmoke said:


> Well, I reported his auctions. Not that it will do any good. Even though a blind man could see what he is doing and that he is violation of their own, so called, "policies", I'm sure eBay will just wash their hands of it and take the profit. They don't seem to have any problem with folks who sell collectable "bags" of Stonhaven and Penzance. We'll see.


I think a faster way would be for the brandowner for Esoterica to be informed that someone is infringing on their trademark and (claiming) to be selling their tobacco. This is the kind of stuff that the BATF also gets involved with.


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## indigosmoke (Sep 1, 2009)

Andrew, that's great. I hope they remove these too. However, when someone repeatedly violates their policies they should suspend their account and cancel all their auctions. Otherwise, they'll just keep at it until someone doesn't see and report them and they slip through.


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## kneepa (Feb 6, 2011)

right on guys... even tho I haven't been looking on ebay for stuff like this , its good to know that you all with the expierence are calling it out. giving a bit of warning to us new guys who might be easily tricked.


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## indigosmoke (Sep 1, 2009)

CWL said:


> I think a faster way would be for the brandowner for Esoterica to be informed that someone is infringing on their trademark and (claiming) to be selling their tobacco. This is the kind of stuff that the BATF also gets involved with.


That's a great idea. What is BATF?


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## Jack Straw (Nov 20, 2008)

I think there is a certain point where ebay will in fact suspend his account. Hopefully this will be the straw to break the proverbial camel's back!


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## Jack Straw (Nov 20, 2008)

I assume he means ATF - Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms


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## TXsmoker (Sep 6, 2010)

Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms


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## TonyBrooklyn (Jan 28, 2010)

I wonder where he is getting the tins. He must buy them in huge lots. Must be some profit in his counterfeiting!:dunno:


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## indigosmoke (Sep 1, 2009)

TonyBrooklyn said:


> I wonder where he is getting the tins. He must buy them in huge lots. Must be some profit in his counterfeiting!:dunno:


He probably gets them here or somewhere similar. They're not too expensive really. They have no minimum order or handling fees.

Screwtop Tin Containers -Specialty Bottle


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## CWL (Mar 25, 2010)

Yup, BATF. ATF Online - Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives

ATF is what I keep my home stocked with !


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## TXsmoker (Sep 6, 2010)

CWL said:


> Yup, BATF. ATF Online - Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives
> 
> ATF is what I keep my home stocked with !


Automatic Transmission Fluid?


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## Troutman22 (Feb 2, 2011)

I read somewhere, not sure if it was this site or another, that someone bought one and reported back his findings. He said the tin was a nifty little tin that was plastic-taped as the seal. He bought Annie Kake and said it tasted like Annie Kake but that the price for the 1/2 ounce was ridiculously high. He also said that the lid had a home printed decal type sticker.


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## owaindav (Mar 7, 2010)

It was this site. I can't remember who. Maybe Moo? And it's amusing that the label says, "Stonehaven. Best Full English Tobacco"

Last I checked Stoney was a va/bur.


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## dmkerr (Oct 27, 2008)

He is persistent, that guy. Which is ok - it makes him that much easier to despise.


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## sounds7 (Mar 25, 2009)

I wouldn't mind it if Butera would actually offer a tinned version of Stonehaven. Then I wouldn't have to break open an 8oz bag and transfer the contents to 2oz mason jars every time I bought the stuff. As for this guy well I said all I needed to say about him in the last thread which I believe was closed by the moderators. He did refund my money on ebay for the fake tin of Anni Kake he sold me. That surprised me.


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## Firedawg (Nov 8, 2010)

owaindav said:


> "Stonehaven. Best Full English Tobacco"
> 
> Last I checked Stoney was a va/bur.


 the Margate labeled with Best Full English Tobacco. If it was cheaper I would buy it and than give him negative. after a few others did that he wouldnt be able to sell it with the negative score.


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## sounds7 (Mar 25, 2009)

Another ebay no no that he is guilty of is he is advertising his non ebay store website on his bio page.

ElectronicSeekers Were Our Customers Comes First!!!

You too can enjoy 3oz of premium tobacco for only 40 bucks


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## owaindav (Mar 7, 2010)

It says that sampler package will be in stock on the 17th! Can't wait to report him again on the bay if he puts it there!


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## User Name (Feb 11, 2011)

sounds7 said:


> Another ebay no no that he is guilty of is he is advertising his non ebay store website on his bio page.
> 
> ElectronicSeekers Were Our Customers Comes First!!!
> 
> for just 40 bucks you too can have 3oz of premium tobacco


I like how he spells "where" wrong. HA!


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## owaindav (Mar 7, 2010)

Here's where he's getting his tins and jars from. Kerr 0500 wide mouth mason jar half pint, 8oz - eBay (item 400187129435 end time Mar-11-11 12:45:47 PST)

His last several buys have been ziploc bags, jars and plastic storage containers. Wonder what he's going to hawk next!


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## Troutman22 (Feb 2, 2011)

> He is persistent, that guy. Which is ok - it makes him that much easier to despise.


HAHA NoicE!
:r


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## tedswearingen (Sep 14, 2010)

I wonder why we should report this infraction on eBay? Stay with me here...

Now, I wouldn't endorse this illegal behavior. I'll clear that up. Moving on...

Remembering that while we are those responsible for creating such monsters, the only reason I can think to turn this guy in is to protect one of our pipe smoking brothers from getting a bunk deal. Seems most of us agree that if someone wants to spend ridiculous money buying 'rare' tobacco we ought to let them. As long as the consumer is actually get some Stonehaven in a bogus tin at an inflated cost why not let him? 

Granted, the dude selling this stuff is a creep; he should be ashamed of himself. He's one of those lurkers that should be purged from the internet. At the very least he should come out and say what he's doing. He shouldn't be using Germain labels. 

But when I think of the reaction from the pipe community when eBay makes policy against any kind of tobacco paraphernalia on their site I imagine that we'll be sorry we complained so much. Actually, we'll probably just blame it on the government.

Just trying to stay skeptical here. Don't hit me.


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## owaindav (Mar 7, 2010)

Ted, thank you again for your input. Here's why I think this guy should be stopped. I'm looking at this from the perspective of the companies he's representing on those tins.

Germain, Dunhill and Samuel Gawith take extraordinary effort to create a great and consistent product. Their goal, as any manufacturer of any product is to make the consumer's experience the same every time they purchase their product.

When someone takes that product and repackages it, the manufacturer's efforts at quality control are now gone. If he was selling this as repackaged FVF, Stonehaven, etc. I wouldn't have a problem with it. However, what happens when someone buys one of these tins and it's dry or the experience isn't the same as it it's bought directly from a distributor? If someone has never tried it before and it's less than exceptional, then these companies may have lost a customer and their name is impugned.

That's my problem with this guy.


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## CWL (Mar 25, 2010)

I'm looking at it from a trademark infringement angle. This guy is using and abusing trademarks without being granted rights. This will make the enforcement people come crashing down on him. 

Think BAT will just say "Go ahead and use "Dunhill" logos and brand names"?


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## tedswearingen (Sep 14, 2010)

Dave, that's very true. It's not cool for this guy to screw with a brand. Companies work hard to create a brand image and people shouldn't get away with hurting that image by means of deceptive persuasion simply to make a buck. 

CWL, I think this ties into your comment as well.


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## drastic_quench (Sep 12, 2008)

Yep, I wouldn't bother reporting this guy. If you keep poking those Ebay guard dogs, they're gonna wake up and bite indiscriminately. I don't even buy tobacco on Ebay, but that's a grey avenue we want left open.


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## indigosmoke (Sep 1, 2009)

I hear what you all are saying, but I just find their entire tobacco policy a thinly veiled scam. Collectable tins...yeah right. Either allow people to sell tobacco or don't, but don't come up with some so called policy that is total BS. Admittedly, I don't buy tobacco on eBay, and maybe I should be more sensitive to the needs of those who do, but I figure if someone really wants (and can afford) to pay $70 for a tin of Edgeworth they can do so through a consigner like Pipestud or someone else who isn't lying about the fact that they are selling tobacco.


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## skydvejam (Feb 27, 2011)

It is a way to advertise to the masses, and speaking of advertising, anyone recently been to his shops homepage? I am thinking he is not going to get very many sells with the first item he has up for sell. 
That shows a lot of this guys mental capacity, and even if I did not know what I know from on here, I would never buy anything from anyone that petty to place something like that on there online store.
Here is the linky


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## TXsmoker (Sep 6, 2010)

Did you read the description?

ElectronicSeekers Were Our Customers Comes First!!!


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## User Name (Feb 11, 2011)

skydvejam said:


> It is a way to advertise to the masses, and speaking of advertising, anyone recently been to his shops homepage? I am thinking he is not going to get very many sells with the first item he has up for sell.
> That shows a lot of this guys mental capacity, and even if I did not know what I know from on here, I would never buy anything from anyone that petty to place something like that on there online store.
> Here is the linky


Haha that's awesome!

oh man, I wish that was a sticker or something. I'd buy it.


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## TXsmoker (Sep 6, 2010)

Is the Puff image copyrighted? This could get real good...


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## Jivey (Dec 6, 2010)

skydvejam said:


> It is a way to advertise to the masses, and speaking of advertising, anyone recently been to his shops homepage? I am thinking he is not going to get very many sells with the first item he has up for sell.
> That shows a lot of this guys mental capacity, and even if I did not know what I know from on here, I would never buy anything from anyone that petty to place something like that on there online store.
> Here is the linky


That is very funny. He has lurked here before the last time he posted bogus tins. Looks like he is back. Isn't he a peach? I am sure having that posted on his homepage will have everyone trusting him as a vendor.


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## Rock31 (Sep 30, 2010)

TXsmoker said:


> Did you read the description?
> 
> ElectronicSeekers Were Our Customers Comes First!!!


I think he likes us


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## Firedawg (Nov 8, 2010)

So he still cares what we say even after being banned! lolz

Uniquebriar=fail!


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## Troutman22 (Feb 2, 2011)

Wow, just wow. I can't believe someone who has a business would do something like that. Even if it is a repackaging business.


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## TXsmoker (Sep 6, 2010)

Rock31 said:


> I think he likes us


For some reason, his product description made me think of the Southpark episode with the Chef's Salted Chocolate balls song.


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## sounds7 (Mar 25, 2009)

TXsmoker said:


> Did you read the description?
> 
> ElectronicSeekers Were Our Customers Comes First!!!


LOL
hone: Yeah little does this guy know that one of the biggest gatherings of pipe/cigar smokers on the internet is the forum he plastered that message to. Way to build a customer base.


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## skydvejam (Feb 27, 2011)

Hey it might get some more pipe smokers over here though, then they will be forewarned.


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## Jack Straw (Nov 20, 2008)

:lol:


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## MarkC (Jul 4, 2009)

But...if we do that, how will the customer come first?


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## User Name (Feb 11, 2011)

MarkC said:


> But...if we do that, how will the customer come first?


huh?

:gossip:

OHHHH!

:rofl:


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## shannensmall (Jun 30, 2010)

Has anyone linked that to John C. ? I bet he would be real interested in seeing his logo like that. Someone should PM a Mod.

I tend to agree with Ted on this ons. Like I said before, I have no issues with someone reselling a product as long as they are honest about it.. This isn't the case with this guy. What a real class act. His copyright infringement is also completely not acceptable. Ted if you read this, any chance you can shoot an email to some of the higher ups who actually own those logos he stealing?

Look we can all report him to ebay until we are blue in the face. We will be lucky if he gets even as much as a slap on the wrist...and at worst, they ban him. Big whoop, not hard to change an IP addy and start another account. But get him financially and legally in trouble over this copyright crap...now that's a whole different story. People have gone to jail over less.


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## Habanolover (Feb 22, 2006)

shannensmall said:


> Has anyone linked that to John C. ? I bet he would be real interested in seeing his logo like that. Someone should PM a Mod.


I am making some inquiries into it. :tu


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## shannensmall (Jun 30, 2010)

eheheheh sweet.

You rock!


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## Sam_Wheat (Oct 7, 2010)

TXsmoker said:


> Did you read the description?
> 
> ElectronicSeekers Were Our Customers Comes First!!!


You can add it to your cart for only $.01!


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## CWL (Mar 25, 2010)

Well, it looks like he has removed his listings for home-tinned Esoterica and Dunhill tobaccos. Maybe eBay made him do it, but I'm sure we had some part in it.

This guy obviously is in the business of selling pipes, and quality ones at that. What I don't get is why would he get involved in making-up bogus tins of tobacco and trademark infringement issues with some of the most well-known and popular tobacco brands?


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## TonyBrooklyn (Jan 28, 2010)

sounds7 said:


> Another ebay no no that he is guilty of is he is advertising his non ebay store website on his bio page.
> 
> ElectronicSeekers Were Our Customers Comes First!!!
> 
> You too can enjoy 3oz of premium tobacco for only 40 bucks


Too funny i mean really this guy sells counterfeit tobacco and $300 pipes!
I wonder i'll bet he was a rocket scientist before he went into the counterfeiting racket. Oh that Puff ad he has on there shows he is interested in building a large following!:loco::loco::loco::loco::loco:


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## freestoke (Feb 13, 2011)

Wonder if they actually are Ardor pipes.

But, I've always wondered about people who are so lazy that they don't even bother to check signs, logos, titles and so forth, for spelling errors: "...*Were* Our Customers *Comes* First!!!" Personally, I'd also deduct another couple of points for too many exclamation points, but I'm a tough grader.


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## owaindav (Mar 7, 2010)

By the way, his name is Pedro Ortiz. One of my internet buddies has done a little research.


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## dmkerr (Oct 27, 2008)

freestoke said:


> Wonder if they actually are Ardor pipes.
> 
> But, I've always wondered about people who are so lazy that they don't even bother to check signs, logos, titles and so forth, for spelling errors: "...*Were* Our Customers *Comes* First!!!" Personally, I'd also deduct another couple of points for too many exclamation points, but I'm a tough grader.


I'm just happy that they PORVIDE all us pipesmokers with the things we want.


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## dmkerr (Oct 27, 2008)

Sam_Wheat said:


> You can add it to your cart for only $.01!


Two things I notice.

1) He does have balls. Not the crispiest chip in the bag by a long shot, but balls? I'd say so.

2) He didn't misspell anything this time, which is probably a first.

So I'm betting he learned his craft in prison.


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## FiveStar (Jan 7, 2010)

What a loser.


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## FlimFlammery (Feb 25, 2011)

tedswearingen said:


> But when I think of the reaction from the pipe community when eBay makes policy against any kind of tobacco paraphernalia on their site I imagine that we'll be sorry we complained so much. Actually, we'll probably just blame it on the government.


I have to agree with Ted on this one. I don't like what he's doing from an integrity standpoint or how he's infringing on the trademarks of respected tobacco brands and the community here is to be commended for the effort in getting his auctions yanked from eBay. Yet I for one would not want to see the day when eBay no longer permitted the sale of "collectible tobacco tins" by honest and responsible sellers. As state governments become increasingly strident at reigning in internet based tobacco sales, such auctions could become one of the last options that many of us have for purchasing blends that are not available from our local B&M's. I hope it never comes to that though.


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## TonyBrooklyn (Jan 28, 2010)

owaindav said:


> By the way, his name is Pedro Ortiz. One of my internet buddies has done a little research.


No not this guy!

AMW | Fugitives | Pedro Ortiz | Brief

That would explain the whole thing!
:loco::loco::loco::loco::loco:


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## sounds7 (Mar 25, 2009)

hmm. Padro has added a bit more to his message now. Wow I didnt realize you couldnt buy tobacco products on ebay anymore because of us.


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## indigosmoke (Sep 1, 2009)

I still see plenty of SG, Dunhill, Stonehaven for auction. The guy sounds like a lunatic to me. I wonder if he mistook his own auctions being cancelled for them banning all sales. We'll see I guess. Their tobacco policy is still the same however:

http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/tobacco.html


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## TXsmoker (Sep 6, 2010)

I just read his rant on his site. Does this loser really think people like him for ripping them off? He's nothing more than a crook and needs to be in prison.


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## shannensmall (Jun 30, 2010)

indigosmoke said:


> I wonder if he mistook his own auctions being cancelled for them banning all sales.


Judging by his spelling and the wonderful job he did on reformatting or attempted reformatting of the Puff logo, he isn't the sharpest nail in the box.

Then there was his couple of posts here... yeah a real winner this one is. :loco::banghead:


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## User Name (Feb 11, 2011)

I wouldn't buy anything pipe related from a site called "Electronic Seekers". Especially when the drop down categories on the side of the webpage are names of companies that manufacture electronics. 

Guess he won't be making his rent this month. Better go get his job back at McDonald's.


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## CWL (Mar 25, 2010)

He's back on eBay schlepping fake tins of Esoterica. Even raised his price.

I think this man is deranged.

Sealed Pipe Tin Tobacco 1/2oz - eBay (item 220751419450 end time Mar-11-11 08:57:23 PST)


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## User Name (Feb 11, 2011)

CWL said:


> He's back on eBay schlepping fake tins of Esoterica. Even raised his price.
> 
> I think this man is deranged.
> 
> Sealed Pipe Tin Tobacco 1/2oz - eBay (item 220751419450 end time Mar-11-11 08:57:23 PST)


so he's selling one tin, but he has pics of both pen. and stone.? Is he just going to randomly send you one or the other when you win the bid?

He can't even do that right, jeez.


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## Xodar (Mar 4, 2011)

Glad I saw this thread, I may have bit and dropped a few bucks just to try the mythical Stoney. Caveat Emptor I suppose.

Although, as previoously mentioned, pretty ballsy making your own tins and labels.


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## shannensmall (Jun 30, 2010)

Xodar said:


> Glad I saw this thread, I may have bit and dropped a few bucks just to try the mythical Stoney. Caveat Emptor I suppose.
> 
> Although, as previoously mentioned, pretty ballsy making your own tins and labels.


For someone just wanting to sample this stuff, his price isn't out of the question. I know I would pay it. The problem is in the way he's going about doing it. I'm not going to post it, but there is a perfectly legal way to do what he's doing, and not break ebay policy or any copyright laws. But I'll just leave that for him to not figure out.:banghead:


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## Hermit (Aug 5, 2008)

tedswearingen said:


> I wonder why we should report this infraction on eBay? Stay with me here...
> 
> Now, I wouldn't endorse this illegal behavior. I'll clear that up. Moving on...
> 
> ...


I was thinking that too.
Be careful what you wish for.


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## Xodar (Mar 4, 2011)

There's almost a catch 22 there though. I have to think that most folks who would pay the inflated price would be in my shoes. Meaning I read about this flake, I like flakes, and I might hazard fifteen dollars to try a small amount.
But provided what showed up was darker than 1792, I'd have no inkling whether it was the real deal or not.
I suppose I'm just going to go with my general rule of "If it feels shady, don't".


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## indigosmoke (Sep 1, 2009)

Xodar said:


> There's almost a catch 22 there though. I have to think that most folks who would pay the inflated price would be in my shoes. Meaning I read about this flake, I like flakes, and I might hazard fifteen dollars to try a small amount.
> But provided what showed up was darker than 1792, I'd have no inkling whether it was the real deal or not.
> I suppose I'm just going to go with my general rule of "If it feels shady, don't".


I hear you, but $15 plus shipping for 1/2 an ounce is extremely high, even for Stoney. For example if you are somewhat persistent you can probably find an 8oz bag for ~$80 or $10 an oz on eBay. Even if you don't like it you could certainly make some good trades here for leaf you like and come out with a better deal in the end, at least IMO. But I have to say, Stonehaven lover that I am, it's really just not worth all that much money, at least to me. Heck, $80 can buy a pound of other great tobaccos in tins or a couple of pounds of other great bulks. I guess if money is no object, OK, but seriously, as much as I like Stonehaven for those who do have to watch their tobacco budgets I'd say wait until you can find someone who will trade you a sample or until your number comes up when it's in stock. It's a great tobacco, but there are at least 4 or 5 other blends I'd be less happy to run out of, and this is coming from someone who really loves Stonehaven. From reading this forum it's hard to believe, but one can actually be a happy Puffer without ever having tried Stonehaven. You might not even like it. Just ask Mark C. Then again, he thinks that FVF is the bee's knees, and I think it's OK but nothing special. But that's they way it goes with tobacco. One man's whoopie is another man's so what. In fact, after the recent hunt for the Stoney holy grail so many have engaged in, I'm waiting for the first one who got some but had never tried it to say "eh...nothing special." Then I'll know I've found a man who knows his own mind and is not affected by hype.


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## CWL (Mar 25, 2010)

Here's the crux of the issue to me.

How do we _know_ it is real Esoterica Stonehaven, or Dunhill, or SG in the tins? Because some person that makes up fake tins of product promises us? Can we really trust his word? Has his behavior shown him as somebody that can be trusted in any way? He could be packing each tin with ear wax for all we know.

This is why Trademarks are protected so carefully by brand-owners and their licensees. A brand name, the reputation for quality and the image is very important for companies, retailers and consumers.

Somebody could buy one of those fake tins, smoke it and then remark on the internet "I just tried a tin of Stonehaven, and it sucked!" Who gets harmed by this?


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## dmkerr (Oct 27, 2008)

CWL said:


> Here's the crux of the issue to me.
> 
> How do we _know_ it is real Esoterica Stonehaven, or Dunhill, or SG in the tins? Because some person that makes up fake tins of product promises us?


So far, everyone I've spoken to that's purchased his tobaccos say they are the real deal. He apparently has a stock of these blends and he's simply making tins and overcharging for the blends. I wouldn't complain if he simply sold it in baggies, but you can't do that on ebay. So he created fake tins with real logos and artwork, which is fraud.

By the way, the ebay ad linked above is now gone.


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## Firedawg (Nov 8, 2010)

He has pulled all the tins from ebay! Guess the hammer fell, so it looks like this one is wrapped up for now. Nice work all.


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## dmkerr (Oct 27, 2008)

Firedawg said:


> He has pulled all the tins from ebay! Guess the hammer fell, so it looks like this one is wrapped up for now. Nice work all.


Yeah, but now we can't buy tobacco over the internet anymore!!!!:banghead:

Oh wait... maybe we just can't buy tobacco on Ebay anymore.

All I remember is that he blamed us for something like that. Or maybe all it means is that we can't buy HIS tobacco over the internet anymore. LOL!


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## skydvejam (Feb 27, 2011)

Funny, he has more funny tins for sale already, so much for banning it all from fleabay.
Guy just seems like a real class act.


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## MarkC (Jul 4, 2009)

CWL said:


> Somebody could buy one of those fake tins, smoke it and then remark on the internet "I just tried a tin of Stonehaven, and it sucked!" Who gets harmed by this?


The poster, when he's thoroughly flamed for thinking it comes in a tin...


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## Jack Straw (Nov 20, 2008)

He still has 2 up, reported! Found them in my daily "1/2 oz tobacco" search. :lol:


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## sounds7 (Mar 25, 2009)

Jack Straw said:


> He still has 2 up, reported! Found them in my daily "1/2 oz tobacco" search. :lol:


Maybe he is just toying with us now.
Sealed Esoterica Stonehaven Pipe Tin Tobacco 1/2oz - eBay (item 220751576806 end time Mar-09-11 14:12:02 PST)

Sealed Penzance And Stonehaven Pipe Tin Tobacco 1/2oz - eBay (item 220751579081 end time Mar-11-11 14:17:59 PST)

Ebay should just get tired of taking down this guys auctions and ban him for multiple infractions.


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## skydvejam (Feb 27, 2011)

Or do a little better and ban his IP


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## owaindav (Mar 7, 2010)

I wonder if it's copyright infringement to put the Puff.com logo straight from the website up for sale for $.01?


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## Habanolover (Feb 22, 2006)

owaindav said:


> I wonder if it's copyright infringement to put the Puff.com logo straight from the website up for sale for $.01?


I have informed Jon and provided him a link to this guy's site.


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## gahdzila (Apr 29, 2010)

owaindav said:


> I wonder if it's copyright infringement to put the Puff.com logo straight from the website up for sale for $.01?


I'm no lawyer. I don't play one on TV, either. But my guess is it wouldn't hold up in court as copyright infringement. I'm just guessing, though. Nonetheless, that doesn't mean John can't send the guy a nasty threatening cease and dissist letter.



Habanolover said:


> I have informed Jon and provided him a link to this guy's site.


Do keep us posted.


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## owaindav (Mar 7, 2010)

gahdzila said:


> I'm no lawyer. I don't play one on TV, either.
> 
> Do keep us posted.


But did you stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night?


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## freestoke (Feb 13, 2011)

gahdzila said:


> I'm no lawyer. I don't play one on TV, either. But my guess is it wouldn't hold up in court as copyright infringement.


It would be a trademark violation, I think, provided the logo is trademarked. Don't know if it is or isn't.


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## Habanolover (Feb 22, 2006)

Looks like he has removed the PUFF logo from his website. :mrgreen:


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## gahdzila (Apr 29, 2010)

owaindav said:


> But did you stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night?


LOL. I wish. I got shifted to the night shift for the month, so I worked last night.


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## commonsenseman (Apr 18, 2008)

How did I miss this thread? Good stuff, except I don't get it. The last 5 tins of Stonehaven I've bought have been 1/2oz tins? :dunno:


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## DirtyBlackSocks (Jan 6, 2011)

While I don't like what this guy's doing - if people continue to make complaints and divert ebay resources to things like this, sooner or later they're going to pull the plug on tobacco products altogether.

Which would suck.

From what I've read he's at least providing people with the real product inside the fake tins...that doesn't make him a saint, but it doesn't make him a thief either.


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## freestoke (Feb 13, 2011)

commonsenseman said:


> How did I miss this thread? Good stuff, except I don't get it. The last 5 tins of Stonehaven I've bought have been 1/2oz tins? :dunno:


Maybe that's why you thought it tasted just like Carter Hall.


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## Rock31 (Sep 30, 2010)

Habanolover said:


> Looks like he has removed the PUFF logo from his website. :mrgreen:


That was quick! Nice going.


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## CWL (Mar 25, 2010)

This has to be taken from the point of Trademark infringement and counterfeiting.

A lot of corporations are coming-down hard on them to enforce this on eBay. 

If it is approached from this direction, it is another case of eBay closing the doors on another unscrupulous counterfeiter.


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## Jivey (Dec 6, 2010)

So if we let it slide because it is the "real" product, do we just close our eyes to the counterfeit labeling? The crime he is committing is not tobacco sales, it is unlawful use of a trademarked image. eBay knows who pays the bills, without pressure from the government they will not pull tobacco sales. They only remove sales that are reported,it would be bad for business to proactively seek out ads that "might" not be 100% legit, much like the collectable tin ads.


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## Firedawg (Nov 8, 2010)

Also this guy was a total DB (vinager and water product) He misrepresents what we here stand for and has even been banned from here also. Ebay will not change things over one person. They have to many other things to look at.


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## User Name (Feb 11, 2011)

he should have just spelled esoterica with a "Z"

Ezoterica tobacco. Sounds gangsta enough.


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## owaindav (Mar 7, 2010)

Here's the latest! Sealed BALKAN SOBRANIE 759 Pipe Tin Tobacco 1/2oz - eBay (item 220752037256 end time Mar-16-11 13:47:18 PDT)

He also has an actual bag of Penz for $60 and an actual tin for $20. Now, the question is, how would anyone buy his 1/2 oz tin seeing the actual thing there?


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## tedswearingen (Sep 14, 2010)

I want to thank everyone for not kicking me in the neck for my last couple of comments.

Enjoyably, this thread has turned out to be something of a 'watchdog' for the possibly lesser informed pipe smoker. Maybe a thread like this would make for a good Sticky post. Nevertheless, it's cool that this thread has generated some nice back-and-forth dialogue, having touched on both an ethical and economic nuance of our hobby. I'm certainly captivated.

Some here on Puff.com seem to know each other personally. But I don't think we should take half of what's said here as personally as we do as often as we do. As pleasant as it is to post on the board and be involved in the discussion, I think for most of us this experience is largely an impersonal exchange of free ideas and shared experience. Message boards like these operate best because of that. Thank you tempered Moderators.

That said, I hope the party responsible for stirring up this controversy changes their ways. At the same time it's critical to understand that this is clear example of the bitter aftertaste we create with so much hype.

Now if we could all just switch to Prince Albert.


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## Habanolover (Feb 22, 2006)

tedswearingen said:


> Now if we could all just switch to Prince Albert.


I am going to trade all of my Stonehaven for Prince Albert!

OK Maybe not. :r


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## sounds7 (Mar 25, 2009)

Did this dude sell 8 different 1/2 oz tins of Sobranie for 40 dollars each?:ask:
a half ounce for 40 dollars plus shipping in a fake tin. think about that one for a minute. 

edit: the listing was probably taken down. No one would be that dumb right?


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## skydvejam (Feb 27, 2011)

Yep when it looks like that, they took it down, wonder when this guy is gonna stop posting that stuff on ebay?


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## Jivey (Dec 6, 2010)

sounds7 said:


> Did this dude sell 8 different 1/2 oz tins of Sobranie for 40 dollars each?:ask:
> a half ounce for 40 dollars plus shipping in a fake tin. think about that one for a minute.
> 
> edit: the listing was probably taken down. No one would be that dumb right?


Only $1280.00/lb. Who actually buys this stuff? I would hope most people are smarter than this, even if they had the money to spare.


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## Cpuless (Aug 8, 2009)

Hoping for people to be smart is about as likely for hoping to see herrings falling from the sky. It happens every once and a while but its incredibly unlikely to happen when you are looking for it...


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## CWL (Mar 25, 2010)

Well he's gone from eBay. 

Like I said, if you approach eBay from the point of Trademark infringement and counterfeit products, eBay will come down fast & hard. Also helps if you let the Brand-owners know that somebody is using their brands. Notice how quickly the Dunhill tins disappeared but Esoterica came back? I think the seller didn't realize that Arango Cigar Co. would also be miffed that somebody was using the Esoterica brands.


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## MarkC (Jul 4, 2009)

sounds7 said:


> Did this dude sell 8 different 1/2 oz tins of Sobranie for 40 dollars each?:ask:
> a half ounce for 40 dollars plus shipping in a fake tin. think about that one for a minute.
> 
> edit: the listing was probably taken down. No one would be that dumb right?


I could see people paying that for Balkan Sobrainie easily. It's not exactly cheap on eBay by the pouch, is it? I've seen it well over a hundred for what I assume to be a 2 oz. pouch. Or were those for a six pouch box?


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## freestoke (Feb 13, 2011)

CWL said:


> I think the seller didn't realize that Arango Cigar Co. would also be miffed that somebody was using the Esoterica brands.


To paraphrase Olympia Dukakis in "Moonstruck", what the seller didn't realize is a lot. There's a quote apropos to the thread, one of the great lines of all time, "Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American public." H.L. Mencken.


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## Mister Moo (Sep 8, 2005)

owaindav said:


> It was this site. I can't remember who. Maybe Moo? And it's amusing that the label says, "Stonehaven. Best Full English Tobacco"
> 
> Last I checked Stoney was a va/bur.


I never bought from this dick but I did report him to EBay for various violations including probable trademark infringements. Seller proudly told me that he made the labels himself which, therefore, made the packaging unique and collectible.

This seller is a thief plan and simple.


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## freestoke (Feb 13, 2011)

Mister Moo said:


> This seller is a thief plan and simple.


He might actually be too ignorant to KNOW he's a thief.


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## sounds7 (Mar 25, 2009)

Or more than likely doesn't care that he is a thief. He probably made fake cigar bands for bogus Cohiba cigars back in Puerto Rico before moving to the U.S. main land and has now just adapted his craft to the local market and the internet.


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## sounds7 (Mar 25, 2009)

That last comment doesn't apply to other PR by the way just this guy.


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## skydvejam (Feb 27, 2011)

BTW he is still on E-bay, just his tins keep getting knocked off, link to his ebay profile.


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## x6ftundx (Jul 31, 2008)

yeah Ebay has gone crazy... I had nine of my auctions removed and I also heard from my other four selling friends that all their's have been removed as well... grrrr I hope this doesn't start something that we are all going to regret that buy or sell tobacco on Ebay.


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## Jivey (Dec 6, 2010)

x6ftundx, don't you buy tobacco and sell it for inflated prices when the supply has been exhausted? While I don't agree with this practice at all, I do commend you for at least selling it in its original packaging.


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## DirtyBlackSocks (Jan 6, 2011)

Jivey said:


> x6ftundx, don't you buy tobacco and sell it for inflated prices when the supply has been exhausted? While I don't agree with this practice at all, I do commend you for at least selling it in its original packaging.


I do that with limited edition cigars...it's common practice.

I don't see any wrong with putting out my money to buy an item then waiting years for it to completely go out of stock before selling my own stock to make extra cash.


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## Jivey (Dec 6, 2010)

I am talking days, not years man. Here There is a lot of people who missed the boat on Stonehaven when it was in stock and would have loved to get even one bag at retail price.


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## DirtyBlackSocks (Jan 6, 2011)

Jivey said:


> I am talking days, not years man. Here There is a lot of people who missed the boat on Stonehaven when it was in stock and would have loved to get even one bag at retail price.


Well in the same note I also probably share around 5 grand worth of tobacco on a yearly basis for no good reason.

I randomly go into cigar shops and hand people cigars that would cost 40 bucks a pop these days, ect.

I think people should divide stonehaven into smaller packages, say samplers, 1 oz, 2 oz ect. and charge a 20% increase from what it actually cost them if they want to make a buck off it.

There are so many people out there, including myself, that live paycheck to paycheck - that I simply could not get a chance to buy it when it was available, and it's not like it comes in cheaper small tins, either.


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## x6ftundx (Jul 31, 2008)

Jivey said:


> I am talking days, not years man. Here There is a lot of people who missed the boat on Stonehaven when it was in stock and would have loved to get even one bag at retail price.


Actually that was from the last batch last year. I never got any this year though I have to admit I was looking myself and not to do a quick turn around on Ebay. I started the auction for what I paid for it last year 29.99, not my fault that it jumped to 76.00 is it?


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## x6ftundx (Jul 31, 2008)

Jivey said:


> x6ftundx, don't you buy tobacco and sell it for inflated prices when the supply has been exhausted? While I don't agree with this practice at all, I do commend you for at least selling it in its original packaging.


I don't try and sell it for inflated prices. I look at what it is selling for under 'completed' and then adjust the price to represent what it is selling for. It's not my fault that some tobacco goes for more than others.

Anyway I am basically having to stop selling tobacco because of what Ebay is doing. I was just telling everyone that something strange is going on with Ebay. Didn't mean to start anything... going back into hiding... lane:


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## Firedawg (Nov 8, 2010)

A ticket scalper is still a ticket scalper.


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## owaindav (Mar 7, 2010)

x6ftundx said:


> Actually that was from the last batch last year. I never got any this year though I have to admit I was looking myself. I started the auction for what I paid for it last year 29.99, not my fault that it jumped to 76.00 is it?


I'll give him this one for sure. Can't fault a guy for starting at what they paid and other folks wanting it this bad.


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## skydvejam (Feb 27, 2011)

x6ftundx said:


> Actually that was from the last batch last year. I never got any this year though I have to admit I was looking myself and not to do a quick turn around on Ebay. I started the auction for what I paid for it last year 29.99, not my fault that it jumped to 76.00 is it?


I also do not have an issue with this, it is supply and demand, he is straight forward and honest with his listing.


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## Jivey (Dec 6, 2010)

Danny, I didn't mean to come off like I did. What you are doing is perfectly within your right and I respect you for doing it honestly, unlike the guy this thread was started over. Your listing makes no mention of it being from 2009 so I was unaware.


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## x6ftundx (Jul 31, 2008)

Jivey said:


> Danny, I didn't mean to come off like I did. What you are doing is perfectly within your right and I respect you for doing it honestly, unlike the guy this thread was started over. Your listing makes no mention of it being from 2009 so I was unaware.


I understand, I try not to put the years on there if possible unless I absolutly know, it's not fair to anyone doing that. I never know how long it's been sitting in a warehouse or a shipping container before it really hits the shelf so a 2009 might have been 2008 for all I know. It's not like they date the stupid things. Some companies do and that's great but not all of them. I really do wish everything had a born on date like GL Pease... I just hope it makes it the 5 days without Ebay screwing it up like the rest of my other auctions :crash:

Again I understand, have a great night!


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## freestoke (Feb 13, 2011)

All this gives me pause to consider: Had I bought one tin to save and one to smoke, between 1960 and 1980, that'd be a lot of cans of Mix965, Nightcap, Royal Yacht, Early Morning Pipe, Baby's Bottom...all the Dunhills, actually...Balkan Sobranie, Flying Dutchman, Three Nuns...on second thought, let's not think about that.

sigh


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## MarkC (Jul 4, 2009)

Um...could you mail me a tin of Flying Dutchman before you wake up?


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## Mister Moo (Sep 8, 2005)

skydvejam said:


> I also do not have an issue with this, it is supply and demand, he is straight forward and honest with his listing.


In reference to the seller whose listing got this started, I have no problem with someone buying low and selling high; neither do I have a gripe with someone who repackages as long as the seller makes it clear he repackaged the item from bulk.

But everyone should have a MAJOR issue with a seller who labeled his repackaged goods with stolen trademarks and logos - that's a crime whether or not BAT and Germain/Esoterica want to bother with prosecution. Stealing a logo or a trademark is the equal of picking a pocket, snatching a purse or robbing a bank.


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## shannensmall (Jun 30, 2010)

x6ftundx said:


> I don't try and sell it for inflated prices. I look at what it is selling for under 'completed' and then adjust the price to represent what it is selling for. It's not my fault that some tobacco goes for more than others.
> 
> Anyway I am basically having to stop selling tobacco because of what Ebay is doing. I was just telling everyone that something strange is going on with Ebay. Didn't mean to start anything... going back into hiding... lane:


I have to wonder, if the recent release of Stonehaven and Pensance haven't cause a flood of resales on the bay, with most sellers not even bothering to try and abide by the rules. That alone may be why they are coming down harder on sales of "collectible" tins than usual. :mod:


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## buddha daddy (Jun 14, 2006)

He does have a handy and very telling item up for sale for a penny,



> All you mother ****ers at puff.com can suck my balls! Because of this website puff.com Ebay sellers cant sell SG FVF or other tobacco sales there responsible for snitching and getting your auctions removed. Now you cant find tobacco on ebay. Thx to the dickheads at puff.com


What a d-bag


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## Habanolover (Feb 22, 2006)

I kind of like his new take of the Logo. Pretty cool looking. :r


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## skydvejam (Feb 27, 2011)

I must agree, the issue here is not the resale of the tobacco, the issue was the practices of the person repackaging the product, and selling those as original packaging, sort of like using restoration parts on a car, and calling it original.
Shady practices always harms the consumers.


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## TonyBrooklyn (Jan 28, 2010)

buddha daddy said:


> He does have a handy and very telling item up for sale for a penny,
> 
> What a d-bag


Whatsoever a man soweth, that shall _he_ also _reap_.

:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:


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## Hermit (Aug 5, 2008)

tedswearingen said:


> I wonder why we should report this infraction on eBay? Stay with me here...
> 
> Now, I wouldn't endorse this illegal behavior. I'll clear that up. Moving on...
> 
> ...


*You were right.* Ebay lowers the boom:

"80639634097 - SEALED 50g Samuel Gawith SQUADRON LEADER Tin

We're sorry to tell you that the item isn't available for purchase anymore. We removed the listing because it likely fell into one of these three categories:

-- The listing doesn't follow eBay guidelines.
-- The item isn't allowed on eBay or can only be listed under certain conditions.
-- The listing contains pictures or words that may have violated copyright or trademark rights.

This is disappointing for everyone, but sometimes it's an action we have to take to protect you as a buyer."


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## indigosmoke (Sep 1, 2009)

That's interesting Hermit. They still haven't changed there tobacco policy however.

Tobacco policy


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## Firedawg (Nov 8, 2010)

This is a good thing. Now the hoarders who buy so they can sell on ebay will stop since their is no reason to buy pipe tobacco. Leaving more for the people that would like to purchase the product and actually smoke it. If you have tins that are old and rare sell them on consignment with tobacco shops. To just buy tobacco and flip it is low character in my eyes. I understand that yes you might have 2 bags and one you dont need so you list it. Fine. however buying as much as you can get your hands on than reselling, is a low character in my eyes. This is my opinion and many might not think that way. So be it, I do however and I have that right.


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## Hermit (Aug 5, 2008)

indigosmoke said:


> That's interesting Hermit. They still haven't changed there tobacco policy however.
> 
> Tobacco policy


They haven't changed it, but it looks like they are now enforcing it.
(at least this anecdote seems to indicate.)


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## indigosmoke (Sep 1, 2009)

Hermit said:


> They haven't changed it, but it looks like they are now enforcing it.
> (at least this anecdote seems to indicate.)


I think you are right. I still see out of production tobaccos like the old Dunhills on auction, but none of the currently available tobaccos like Penzance or Stonehaven. At least that's what a quick search for auctions shows.


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## CWL (Mar 25, 2010)

I see current production tins still available, although they are older tins (but less than 10 years old). I won't list any so not to harm the auction, but they can be found right this moment.


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## MarkC (Jul 4, 2009)

DON'T PANIC!!! The Samborger is still there!


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## x6ftundx (Jul 31, 2008)

Hermit said:


> They haven't changed it, but it looks like they are now enforcing it.
> (at least this anecdote seems to indicate.)


Yep they are enforcing it. You can't even do a one-day auction anymore, tried last night. They are taking a hard look at the tobacco/pipe section and are discussing about deleting them all together because of all the hassle that it takes. I had a long talk with one of the CA's up ther (that's what they call the guys that take down the auctions). Anyway they are getting upset because it seems that everyone is telling on everyone else and they are having to put too many people on it. They are also talking about the pipe section as well because the russian, china, etc. pipes are getting too many complaints and they are having to put people on that as well trying to enforce their buyer protection. Apparently Russia and China don't care and all Ebay can do is refund the money and close their Ebay accounts.

Only time will tell but it kind of sucks because now everyone looses out who wants to purchase or sell on Ebay. It's like first grade all over again. :sad:


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## FlimFlammery (Feb 25, 2011)

Baby and bath water, meet window.


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## Mister Moo (Sep 8, 2005)

tedswearingen said:


> I wonder why we should report this infraction ... the only reason I can think to turn this guy in is to protect one of our pipe smoking brothers from getting a bunk deal...


Uniquebriar's pricing is irrelevant.

If YOU imagined and then opened up smokingpipes.com and invested the sweat of your brow, the balances in your bank account and the trust/faith of your family to inventory pipes, tobacco, computers and all that jazz to make a living, and you hired and trained people and paid wages and taxes, bought a building - and if, after many years of effort, you developed a large and loyal client base... you'd have to be proud, right?

And then the guy next door decides to do the same thing and calls his business "Uniquebriar Tobacco Company." Well, that's his business and that's life in capitalism.

But what if the guy next door copies your company name, logo and web page appearance along with all your keywords and meta tags and starts a business called smokingpipes.com? That is a crime.

My old man taught me an intentional omission is the same as a lie and ignoring a crime is the same as committing it. I still roll that way 50 years later. Perhaps I am just out of date but, among friends, I hope not.


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## RJpuffs (Jan 27, 2008)

fleeBay + crooks + limited baccy = shortages (of limited baccy).

no fleeBay = no crooks buying up limited baccy for the sole purpose of repackaging and/or reselling and/or gouging. Therefore no fleeBay = more baccy for those of us that actually SMOKE this stuff.

Have I sold stuff on the 'bay? Yes, and even got 25 bucks for a tin of Escudo at one time (when it cost $8.49). Cool profits, sure, but thats not why I buy pipe baccy.

Have I bought stuff on the 'bay? Yes, and found a 10 year old Gray Havens for a pittance. Great deal, sure, but I take no pleasure out of bilking some sap that doesn't know what he/she is selling for peanuts.

I grudgingly agree with the Moo on this one - righteousness is worth more than profits. We can't put aside respect for intellectual property just to get a few bucks and/or an aged tin. Nations have fallen over petty greed, we as a small community (pipe smokers) within a small community (smokers) within a small community (sane humans) have to try to preserve our values and what makes us, us. Lack of such values makes them, them.

Besides, for any brother that needs to get rid of their excess baccy or obtain more - we have a buy/sell forum right here. Get a fair price, get a fair deal. Works to everyone's advantage, and no fleabay commissions or homemade tin labels :cheer2:


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## Firedawg (Nov 8, 2010)

x6ftundx said:


> Only time will tell but it kind of sucks because now everyone looses out who wants to purchase or sell on Ebay. It's like first grade all over again. :sad:


Who looses out? The scalper or the buyer who pays 500% more for a product just because he got there 5 minutes late at the e-tailer? This is a good thing now. People will buy what they need now(no reason to buy 4+ bags) and more for everyone at fair market pricing. I personally think this is a win for me and pipe tobacco smokers.


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## shannensmall (Jun 30, 2010)

I was wondering when and if they would catch on to the whole selling of current production baccy. I mean, the whole thing is a gray market to begin with, but this did blatantly violate their TOS.


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## FlimFlammery (Feb 25, 2011)

Firedawg said:


> Who looses out?


If they end up pulling the plug on all tobacco sales, those who currently engage in what many would consider perfectly acceptable sales, such as aged tins of tobacco, would loose out. If I was such a seller (which I'm not, never sold anything on eBay) I would want to get the best price possible for whatever it was I am selling. The high profile nature of eBay helps to ensure that, with items that would constitute a seller's market at least. And I for one do not begrudge someone getting more than I would personally be willing to pay for something, particularly when the buyer wasn't taken advantage of and still considers it money well spent.


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## Firedawg (Nov 8, 2010)

If it is an older tin or discontinued tobacco It falls under the ebay policy. Thats how it works but a new bag of stonehaven a collectable bag or a 1/4oz SEALED tin? LOL. These "sellers" are the ones ruining the tobacco policy not us. They are taking advantage of the system and Ebay is doing something about it. Be pissed at the ones breaking the rules and causing this to happen not the ones pointing it out.


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## indigosmoke (Sep 1, 2009)

Firedawg said:


> Be pissed at the ones breaking the rules and causing this to happen not the ones pointing it out.


I have to say this pretty much hits the nail on the head IMO.

I have to say I'm with Moo and Ron on this one and second their comments as well.

As far as I'm concerned if you want to buy or sell old/rare or aged tobacco you can do it though a consigner like Pipestud. For example, he's got a 5 year old bag of Stonehaven going for $120. Even with his 30% cut the seller is still getting $84. Not bad. As for the buyers they pay what they pay in my book. If you can afford to pay $80 for a bag of Stoney I'm not going to cry for you if you have to pay $120.

As for the Chinese ripoffs, etc ruining the estate pipe sales, that is unfortunate. But it's not the fault of the people who get ripped off or eBay for not wanting to spend the manpower needed to deal with such crooks. It's the crooks fault. Cheaters, scammers, thieves etc affect us all in everything we buy or sell. Let's face it, we pay a "shrinkage" fee for theft in just about every retail product we buy. That's why they used to chop your hand off if you stole something. Again, there will always be other ways to buy/sell estate pipes although the prices will buy higher for buyers and lower for sellers, but that's the effect criminals have on any market.

But IMO you can't blame the victims or the honest folk who are offended by and report the crooks.


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## TonyBrooklyn (Jan 28, 2010)

Mister Moo said:


> My old man taught me an intentional omission is the same as a lie and ignoring a crime is the same as committing it. I still roll that way 50 years later. Perhaps I am just out of date but, among friends, I hope not.


_Your not out of date my friend your father taught you right. Moral fiber is something that is severely lacking in today's word! That being said i am very happy to see there are people left in this world. That were taught the same as i and live their lives accordingly!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!_


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## FlimFlammery (Feb 25, 2011)

Firedawg said:


> If it is an older tin or discontinued tobacco It falls under the ebay policy. Thats how it works but a new bag of stonehaven a collectable bag or a 1/4oz SEALED tin? LOL. These "sellers" are the ones ruining the tobacco policy not us. They are taking advantage of the system and Ebay is doing something about it. Be pissed at the ones breaking the rules and causing this to happen not the ones pointing it out.


I'm not talking about the current policy but about the direction the current policy may be headed (as was x6ftundx, who you quoted). Even the current policy is a grey area with sealed aged tins because most of us know the value of the tobacco inside of them will exceed that of the tin itself in most cases (which would disqualify the item under the current policy).

I'm sure eBay would much prefer to allow any and all tobacco sales since they would make more money, but that would draw a lot of legal and political fire on various levels. I would think that most here would understand and appreciate that fact. Loose enforcement of the current policy gave them sufficient cover while allowing for the broader array of tobacco products without requiring a lot of resources on eBay's end. Making it more expensive for them to maintain the existing policy and forcing their hand towards ending all tobacco sales would end some of the current abuses but would still be a net loss when all was said and done.

And the trademark abuses are a separate issue from the tobacco policy. I would not think they'd end the tobacco sales over simply that. People are obviously raising a stink about auctions of currently available tobaccos in general.


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## shannensmall (Jun 30, 2010)

Actually, the trademark abuse would get them in a lot more hot water than the bending of their current rules. Also, by them not enforcing the rules as it was, is what opened them up to persecution over this trademark thing.


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## x6ftundx (Jul 31, 2008)

Firedawg said:


> Who looses out? The scalper or the buyer who pays 500% more for a product just because he got there 5 minutes late at the e-tailer? This is a good thing now. People will buy what they need now(no reason to buy 4+ bags) and more for everyone at fair market pricing. I personally think this is a win for me and pipe tobacco smokers.


I don't think this is a win. I think this will make the hording go even further. If I know I can't get it on Fleabay then I know I am going to stock up like crazy. For example look at the dunhill when it was released. Most people bought 10 tins but not much of it showed up on Fleabay.


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## Firedawg (Nov 8, 2010)

x6ftundx said:


> I don't think this is a win. I think this will make the hording go even further. If I know I can't get it on Fleabay then I know I am going to stock up like crazy. For example look at the dunhill when it was released. Most people bought 10 tins but not much of it showed up on Fleabay.


I would think that the people buying from on ebay dont have any since they are willing to pay the high prices. So I dont see your logic on this one. I understand that you will see it differently since you were one that sold a lot on ebay. It just feels wrong to me, now demographically where I live the moors and taboos make it wrong what you do. You have different views on it. I cannot say your wrong or I am right but have to go by my values and you yours.

As a society we love to press our views on everyone else not thinking that even "cross-town" or across the tracks can be completely different. I look at the Micheal Vick issue with dogs. He didnt really think it was that bad since his way of life and up bringing that was a norm in society however most other areas it is a taboo. He found out the hard way.( I am in no way saying he was right BTW!) However if your view was right than you would be still aloud to sell it on ebay.

As for the Tobacco policy on Ebay their was some flagrant miss uses of it and as of now ebay is policing it. Good or bad it is the new way.


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## x6ftundx (Jul 31, 2008)

Firedawg said:


> I would think that the people buying from on ebay dont have any since they are willing to pay the high prices. So I dont see your logic on this one. I understand that you will see it differently since you were one that sold a lot on ebay. It just feels wrong to me, now demographically where I live the moors and taboos make it wrong what you do. You have different views on it. I cannot say your wrong or I am right but have to go by my values and you yours.
> 
> As a society we love to press our views on everyone else not thinking that even "cross-town" or across the tracks can be completely different. I look at the Micheal Vick issue with dogs. He didnt really think it was that bad since his way of life and up bringing that was a norm in society however most other areas it is a taboo. He found out the hard way.( I am in no way saying he was right BTW!) However if your view was right than you would be still aloud to sell it on ebay.
> 
> As for the Tobacco policy on Ebay their was some flagrant miss uses of it and as of now ebay is policing it. Good or bad it is the new way.


I was actually one of the people paying the high prices at the start. I have one store within 2 hours of my house. They don't have any idea what pipes are or care so off to Fleabay I went to purchase the stuff I always wanted. I found out later through research that if I also bought the stuff that I always wanted I could buy one or two more and sell them to cover the orginal purchase. I always started at the price that I paid plus shipping and it's not my fault that they went price crazy but that's how capitalisim works. Anyway I understand where you are coming from. It's just sad now and I still think this will make it worse than better. Hopefully in a few months everything will be back to normal and people will see the tobacco that they want again.

Oh and by the way it's funny that the crazy guy keeps emailing me telling me that it's puff's fault that he was kicked off of ebay with a suspension and am I supposed to tell you guys that. I laughed only because he was mad that he couldn't sell his fake tobacco and now no one can sell any tobacco ever...

from his email:

Hey Hey what up. Ebay knocking everone down. thx to your buddys at puff.com snitching!!! They woked up all the watch dogs. Now no one can sell tobacco thats out of stock anymore.


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## owaindav (Mar 7, 2010)

I hate that we "woked up all the watchdogs" but this guy was wrong. I go to his site occaisionally and look. He still has an "f you Puff" listing but he's no longer using the logo. He really hates us. Strangely, I'm ok with that!


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## x6ftundx (Jul 31, 2008)

owaindav said:


> I hate that we "woked up all the watchdogs" but this guy was wrong. I go to his site occaisionally and look. He still has an "f you Puff" listing but he's no longer using the logo. He really hates us. Strangely, I'm ok with that!


I totally agree


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## shannensmall (Jun 30, 2010)

> He really hates us. Strangely, I'm ok with that!


Leaves me feeling all warm n fuzzy inside.


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## GuitarDan (Nov 26, 2009)

I am a small bit annoyed that another avenue for tobacco acquisition has closed.


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## owaindav (Mar 7, 2010)

You know, I've still got several tobaccos on my watch list on the bay. I don't think they've shut it down completely.


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## sepia5 (Feb 14, 2006)

This guy's not giving up.

Pipe Tin Tobacco - eBay (item 220756898289 end time Mar-20-11 07:24:06 PDT)

In fact, he's getting creative. Now he's selling a "pipe tin tobacco" that is "brand-new, unused, unopened, undamaged," and, notably, "unsmoked." But check out the picture:










It's empty, I swear! Just selling empty "unopened," "unsmoked" tins, here!


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## shannensmall (Jun 30, 2010)

And still in copyright violation.

Reported. :/


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## skydvejam (Feb 27, 2011)

Yes and notice he shows it open and empty, as well as a 10 dollar shipping charge >.<
Well now he is getting rid of stuff that he can not use on Ebay, but yet on his site he is still selling this stuff.


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## Hermit (Aug 5, 2008)

Rather than report him to ebay,
report him to the companies that
he's ripping off. I'd rather see the
little termite sued to oblivion, than
banned from ebay.


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## x6ftundx (Jul 31, 2008)

GuitarDan said:


> I am a small bit annoyed that another avenue for tobacco acquisition has closed.


Don't worry, give it a month or two to calm down and by summer everything should be back to normal...


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## x6ftundx (Jul 31, 2008)

Hermit said:


> Rather than report him to ebay,
> report him to the companies that
> he's ripping off. I'd rather see the
> little termite sued to oblivion, than
> banned from ebay.


It's very hard to get banned from Ebay. Especially if you have a strong feedback rating


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## FlimFlammery (Feb 25, 2011)

Could he not simply design his own "collectible" tin without using any other company's trademarks and stipulate that the purchase would include a coupon that could be redeemed online for a free 2 oz sample of tobacco (Stonehaven in this case)?


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## sepia5 (Feb 14, 2006)

skydvejam said:


> Yes and notice he shows it open and empty, as well as a 10 dollar shipping charge >.<
> Well now he is getting rid of stuff that he can not use on Ebay, but yet on his site he is still selling this stuff.












Yup. That's the image I meant to attach before . . . but it was late.


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## dmkerr (Oct 27, 2008)

Mister Moo said:


> But what if the guy next door copies your company name, logo and web page appearance along with all your keywords and meta tags and starts a business called smokingpipes.com? That is a crime.
> 
> My old man taught me an intentional omission is the same as a lie and ignoring a crime is the same as committing it. I still roll that way 50 years later. Perhaps I am just out of date but, among friends, I hope not.


If you're out of date, so am I, Moo. I work for a company that has copyrights and we protect them like they were our livelihood. Because they are.

It's no ok for this guy to make tins with actual logos of other companies on them, even if the stuff inside is legit. That's copyright infringement, pure and simple.

But I have to laugh at his taking offense at getting "snitched" on. The prison system is full of people like him. If somebody hadn't'a told!!!! lmao


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## HWiebe (Jul 13, 2010)

For those who haven't seen it - bottom right corner:


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## Firedawg (Nov 8, 2010)

I like my new avatar at least! thanks uniquebriar.


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## shannensmall (Jun 30, 2010)

Firedawg said:


> I like my new avatar at least! thanks uniquebriar.


HAHAHA! Now that's freaking funny.:laugh:


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## Firedawg (Nov 8, 2010)

Received a message thru Ebay today:

Dear firedawg1989,

Haha nice avatar on puff. But guess what your more than happy to keep it cause i dont care. infact tell jon queputa. to replace his corny one. 

- uniquebriar

Guess he should have put a trademark on it?


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## MarkC (Jul 4, 2009)

dmkerr said:


> If you're out of date, so am I, Moo. I work for a company that has copyrights and we protect them like they were our


He's lucky he wasn't bootlegging Disney stuff. Mr. Moo's not so bad; I've turned in local business that steal, usually day care companies stealing from Disney, or (of all things) plumbers and such stealing from DC Comics. No, I'm not out of date; I'm just an asshole.


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## skydvejam (Feb 27, 2011)

Firedawg said:


> I like my new avatar at least! thanks uniquebriar.


Classic.


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## indigosmoke (Sep 1, 2009)

MarkC said:


> He's lucky he wasn't bootlegging Disney stuff.


Dang it. There goes my plan for Mickey Mouse English Mixture and Pluto's Perique Blend. I guess I've have to think of something else for my eBay get rich quick scheme.


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## Eirik (May 7, 2010)

indigosmoke said:


> Dang it. There goes my plan for Mickey Mouse English Mixture and Pluto's Perique Blend. I guess I've have to think of something else for my eBay get rich quick scheme.


I know you are into Tolkien and came up with the good idea writing his estate to inquire what was his favorite blend. 
How about repackaging Capstan in tiny tins and sell it as "Tolkiens Own". I'm sure Orlik is OK with it.

You could also make an orch blend (discard burly, with a slight sulfer topping). I think that would be an aromatic who would taste like it smells. Maybe not a croud pleaser, but I don't think that's what those in market for such a blend is seaking.


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## DirtyBlackSocks (Jan 6, 2011)

To bring out the ultimate nerd in myself one of those puffer fish is a salt water species while the other is an 8-line puffer, they lack spikes and live in brackish waters (where riverine tributaries merge into the ocean).

Scratch that, not an 8 line puffer, a fugu puffer - they start out in brackish waters then move into the ocean as they mature...they're the famous puffer fish that the Japanese eat which if not prepared right will kill you.


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## owaindav (Mar 7, 2010)

Eirik said:


> I know you are into Tolkien and came up with the good idea writing his estate to inquire what was his favorite blend.
> How about repackaging Capstan in tiny tins and sell it as "Tolkiens Own". I'm sure Orlik is OK with it.
> 
> You could also make an orch blend (discard burly, with a slight sulfer topping). I think that would be an aromatic who would taste like it smells. Maybe not a croud pleaser, but I don't think that's what those in market for such a blend is seaking.


Ooh! Tambo, Kelly's Coin and Byzantium combined in equal proportions. We could call it Fried Ork Flesh!


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## Mister Moo (Sep 8, 2005)

Eirik said:


> I know you are into Tolkien and came up with the good idea writing his estate to inquire what was his favorite blend.
> How about repackaging Capstan in tiny tins and sell it as "Tolkiens Own". I'm sure Orlik is OK with it.
> 
> You could also make an orch blend (discard burly, with a slight sulfer topping). I think that would be an aromatic who would taste like it smells. Maybe not a croud pleaser, but I don't think that's what those in market for such a blend is seaking.


LOL. Tolkien's Orch Blend - half an ounce of repackaged Mixture79 with a pinch of sulphur. Perfect at $12. A sure winner!


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## owaindav (Mar 7, 2010)

Mister Moo said:


> LOL. Tolkien's Orch Blend - half an ounce of repackaged Mixture79 with a pinch of sulphur. Perfect at $12. A sure winner!


LMAO Moo! I opened this thread expecting to see the old Moo av. Man that surprised me!


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## indigosmoke (Sep 1, 2009)

Eirik said:


> I know you are into Tolkien and came up with the good idea writing his estate to inquire what was his favorite blend.
> How about repackaging Capstan in tiny tins and sell it as "Tolkiens Own". I'm sure Orlik is OK with it.
> 
> You could also make an orch blend (discard burly, with a slight sulfer topping). I think that would be an aromatic who would taste like it smells. Maybe not a croud pleaser, but I don't think that's what those in market for such a blend is seaking.


LOL. You know, it's funny that you mention Tolkien. As much as I enjoy the Frog Mortons, Grey Havens and a few of the other blends with Tolkien inspired names, I've always wondered if the producers ever checked with his estate to see if they would mind if these names were used. I imagine that given his and Christopher's love of pipe smoking the answer would be yes.

I do realize names in books are not subject to copyright and that permission is not needed legally, but as Tolkien was all about names it would be the right thing to do, IMO. In his letters he talks about how when LOTR became well known in the 60's people started naming all sort of things based on his works and that it bothered him. Not that he minded them being used, but as he puts it, it would have been nice to be asked. In fact, when asked he would often help the person choose a name or even come up with an appropriate name (he was, after all, probably the foremost scholar on the development of names and the origin of names that has ever lived.) The one example he mentions that he did not like was the use of Shadowfax for a high speed ferry that ran from England to Europe. Not surprising from a man who generally felt modern technology was not a positive thing in the world.



Mister Moo said:


> LOL. Tolkien's Orch Blend - half an ounce of repackaged Mixture79 with a pinch of sulphur. Perfect at $12. A sure winner!


Moo, you are too funny. :rofl:


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## shannensmall (Jun 30, 2010)

DirtyBlackSocks said:


> To bring out the ultimate nerd in myself one of those puffer fish is a salt water species while the other is an 8-line puffer, they lack spikes and live in brackish waters (where riverine tributaries merge into the ocean).
> 
> Scratch that, not an 8 line puffer, a fugu puffer - they start out in brackish waters then move into the ocean as they mature...they're the famous puffer fish that the Japanese eat which if not prepared right will kill you.


If you are talking about the puffer in my Ava, he's a figure 8, named so after the figure 8 pattern on their backs. They start out in fresh and move to brackish, never going full salt. Max out at about 4 inches and are a very inquisitive species. I raised that guy myself from just a wee thing.


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## Mister Moo (Sep 8, 2005)

owaindav said:


> LMAO Moo! I opened this thread expecting to see the old Moo av. Man that surprised me!


I am stealing avatars for a while - at least until this thread blows over. 10,000 posts - 10,000rg? It's way past time to get banned, doncha think? Jon Caputo's avatar is looking very attractive right now. Blaylock... hmmmm.

Nothing is sacred until April Fools Day. :lalala:


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## Eirik (May 7, 2010)

indigosmoke said:


> LOL. You know, it's funny that you mention Tolkien. As much as I enjoy the Frog Mortons, Grey Havens and a few of the other blends with Tolkien inspired names, I've always wondered if the producers ever checked with his estate to see if they would mind if these names were used. I imagine that given his and Christopher's love of pipe smoking the answer would be yes.
> 
> I belive so to. As I understand the "Tolkien blends" are in general realy good. And the flavor profiles fits with what you would imagine being smoked in his books. So they are made with respect for the man. The problem is if someone takes advantage of the appeal Tolkienlore has on many new pipesmokers and starts putting out crap aromatics as Bilbo Mixture and such.
> I'm wondering how many who lately has started out with a LOTR inspired churchwarden?
> ...


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## Xodar (Mar 4, 2011)

Well said Eirik, It's interesting to think of the impact Tolkien has this far later both in literature and pipe smoking. Years back I wrote a paper for a lit class illustrating how he defined the modern fantasy perception of elves and dwarves. And up until a couple of months ago I was calling a Churchwarden a Gandalf, lol.


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## Eirik (May 7, 2010)

Xodar said:


> And up until a couple of months ago I was calling a Churchwarden a Gandalf, lol.


Why not? 
I have yet to see a churchwarden smoking what obviously is a wizards pipe..


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## Stonedog (Mar 9, 2011)

Eirik said:


> ...
> *I'm wondering how many who lately has started out with a LOTR inspired churchwarden?*
> ...


I'm dying to get a churchwarden for _exactly _this reason. In fact, the Tolkien books are one of the main reasons I first considered pipe smoking. Some people transition over from cigars or cigarettes. While I've smoked a few cigars in my life I don't do it on a regular basis. For me this is a link to another time and place (Middle Earth, Colonial america, a more gentile (EDIT: genteel) England, etc).


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## Mister Moo (Sep 8, 2005)

Stonedog said:


> ...a more gentile England, etc).


Couldn't get much more gentile (and less genteel) than it is now. You got to choose. :smile:


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## Nachman (Oct 16, 2010)

A few more Yidden might help the old island.


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## Stonedog (Mar 9, 2011)

Mister Moo said:


> Couldn't get much more gentile (and less genteel) than it is now. You got to choose. :smile:


mg: Spellchecker only gets you so far... I meant genteel of course.

The last few times I've been there it seems the last few decades have brought dramatic and not necessarily positive changes in the culture. But this is probably getting even farther off topic.


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## KBibbs (Oct 28, 2008)

I still love that throughout all of this, his website still says "Customers Comes First"
I'm glads to see he stills care so deeplys for hiss customersss.


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## Firedawg (Nov 8, 2010)

KBibbs said:


> I still love that throughout all of this, his website still says "Customers Comes First"
> I'm glads to see he stills care so deeplys for hiss customersss.


I think you need to clean your keyboard. Just a suggestion.


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## Mister Moo (Sep 8, 2005)

Nachman said:


> A few more Yidden might help the old island.


Mazel tov!


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## Jack Straw (Nov 20, 2008)

I was reminded of this guy just now, searched ebay, and look what I found. :lol:

Pipe Tin Tobacco 1/2.oz - eBay (item 220761576535 end time Mar-29-11 18:01:24 PDT)


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## x6ftundx (Jul 31, 2008)

oh god they haven't locked this thread yet... yes he is still selling but now he is just selling empty tins... copyrighted labels on tins but they still are empty...


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## freestoke (Feb 13, 2011)

What luck! Scoff 'em up now before it's out of stock!!


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## MarkC (Jul 4, 2009)

So he eliminates the one portion that appears to be genuine and legal and keeps selling the bootleg...do you get the idea that this guy is not playing with a full deck?


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## sounds7 (Mar 25, 2009)

He has them listed as sealed tins yet the picture shows it opened and empty. Hilarious.arty:


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## indigosmoke (Sep 1, 2009)

I still see a bunch of SG tins on auction so I don't think they've stopped all tobacco sales for those who were worried about that.


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