# Are cubans really that great?



## Smoked (Apr 12, 2007)

I see quite a bit of hype about the Cuban cigars and I find myself wondering if they are really worth the price? My understanding is that the climate in Cuba is the best for growing tobacco but I have had many great cigars that are not Cuban. Do they really live up to the hype?


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## riverdawg (Dec 4, 2006)

They are different. Good, Bad and sometimes Ugly. I love em. I also love NC 's. Its just a different way to look at a painting.



EDIT: Oh and there is just something about a Cuban cigar. I tend to lick my lips a bunch...............and drool!!


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## auradefect (Apr 11, 2007)

I wish I could tell you. So far all my experience has been with non-cubans. Hopefully one day I'll get enough money saved up to order some. It's just hard for me to justify buying an entire box, when I'm not sure exactly which ones I'd like the best, since there are so many different brands/styles of cubans.

I wish more of the cuban cigar vendors offered good variety sampler packs so I can see which ones I like best before I pull the trigger on full boxes.

But to answer your question, most people love cubans. It probably has to do with the weather down there, along with the soil its grown in.


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## kvaughan (Jul 11, 2006)

Yes. However, there are some excellent NC cigars that can hold thier own.


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## RGD (May 10, 2006)

It's kinda like wine. Do you want a California or French wine. The California wines can be excellent, but most standards are set by French wine. Same deal here.


Ron


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## ResIpsa (Mar 8, 2006)

Some people prefer Cuban cigars, some prefer NC's. I like single malt scotch. Some people don't. With both It's really a matter of personal taste for most people.

Personally, I smoke Cubans for the status they provide


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## [OT] Loki (May 24, 2006)

I enjoyed the hell out of the RYJ corinitos I smoked. I also enjoyed the hell out of the short story I smoked after it.

It all depends on where you like your gerbils from


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## Blueface (May 28, 2005)

My wife thinks I am.
Frankly, I think the same of her.

Oh crap, cigars. Didn't read that.


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## Diesel Kinevel (Aug 21, 2006)

no comment


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## [OT] Loki (May 24, 2006)

Blueface said:


> My wife thinks I am.
> Frankly, I think the same of her.
> 
> Oh crap, cigars. Didn't read that.


I was waiting for this post


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## kvaughan (Jul 11, 2006)

ResIpsa said:


> Personally, I smoke Cubans for the status they provide


Isn't that what they are made for? :r


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## CrazyFool (Oct 2, 2005)

I wish they wernt... but they SOOOOO are 

THeres equally good cigars, but nothing is actually similiar in taste. Expample? I find a lot of Nicaraguan puros to be AS good as a Cuban. not better, not similar (Padron & DOn Pepin  )


now the only other note is that some total shite cubans are not as good as some NC's but even then, the NCs that are needed to beat cubans are top notch smokes. A (machine made) Jose Peidra is pretty freakin impressive, and it often takes a 10 dollar PAN or Opus to match it :2


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## burninator (Jul 11, 2006)

No, they aren't. Hands off!! :r


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## No1der (Apr 2, 2007)

ResIpsa said:


> Some people prefer Cuban cigars, some prefer NC's. I like single malt scotch. Some people don't. With both It's really a matter of personal taste for most people.
> 
> Personally, I smoke Cubans for the status they provide


Oh, Single Malt Scotch :dr

Now that's the good stuff, everything else just tastes like swill since I tried Single Malts. I'd rather have a cheap single malt than a medium blend. That's just me though.

As far as Cuban cigars go? Well, I've had a couple here and there and all I can tell you is that they can be quite good. I think the main difference is that the Cubans have a different idea of what is "Medium Bodied" as opposed to NC's or most others.

I haven't tried enough cigars to give a definite response to the Cuban question but like I said; it seems that they have a different idea as far as descriptions.

I like medium bodied maduros, generally speaking, and the Cohiba I had were described as medium but tasted full to me. It was good, don't get me wrong but I was a little dissapointed because of the very thing I'm posting about.

Hope this helps.

If anyone else would like to correct me in this respect please do so because I haven't smoked that many contrabans.

Cheers,
Rob


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## Blueface (May 28, 2005)

[OT] Loki said:


> I was waiting for this post


:r 
Glad to see I have not lost my predictability, huh?


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## j6ppc (Jun 5, 2006)

Blueface said:


> My wife thinks I am.
> Frankly, I think the same of her.
> 
> Oh crap, cigars. Didn't read that.


Carlos I don't think he was referring to minutos!

Seriously - it is a matter of individual preference great cigars don't have to be from one particular country although there are many who do prefer to smoke primarily one or the other assuming they have a choice in the matter.
It is, IMHO, really about finding out what tastes best to *you* rather than just following the herd in a lemming like fashion.


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## Smoked (Apr 12, 2007)

Sounds like I am just going to have to figure it out for myself. I'll get some eventually and I hope that I hate them.

:w


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## ScottishSmoker (Feb 11, 2007)

The Romeo y Julieta Cubans are a LOT more than their counterparts...General's Cohibas are crap compared to the real thing...Hell, there a lot of better cubans than there available counterparts...


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## rainman (Apr 13, 2007)

Unfortunately for my pocketbook, I've really only smoked Cuban cigars with the exception of the odd Dominican at a golf tournament. I do enjoy cubans a lot, but they definitely taste MUCH better when smoked in Cuba :ss 

Something about the sun, ocean, palms and a cold Mojito :al combined with a good Cuban makes for an unforgettable experience.


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## moki (Jan 12, 2004)

Smoked said:


> I see quite a bit of hype about the Cuban cigars and I find myself wondering if they are really worth the price? My understanding is that the climate in Cuba is the best for growing tobacco but I have had many great cigars that are not Cuban. Do they really live up to the hype?


Some you may like, some you may not like. They are just cigars, and your personal tastes won't suddenly go out the window just because of the island the cigars happened to come from.

It's like the situation with French wine back in the 70's. Nothing could top French wine, it was the soil, blah blah blah. And then in blind taste tests, Californian wines trounced 'em. The same thing happened again in the rematch.

Now, there are still some great wines from France... but there are some crappy ones too. And given that cigars, wine, food, etc. are all about personal taste, no one can declare anything in absolute terms.

What matters is what you like.


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## Woogie (Mar 6, 2007)

I can't wait to smoke my first Cuban. However, I don't see myself leaving the country anytime soon, so I guess it will be a while.


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## piperman (Sep 8, 2005)

Really its up to you, myself I think they are over rated. :2


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## ResIpsa (Mar 8, 2006)

Woogie said:


> I can't wait to smoke my first Cuban. However, I don't see myself leaving the country anytime soon, so I guess it will be a while.


Just a heads up, if you're a U.S. citizen it's illegal to smoke a Cuban cigar anywhere you are in the world. Sorry Woogie.


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## sparkygreen (Apr 10, 2007)

I have yet to experience an ISOM smoke either....Im sure ill find a couple along the way though...I cant wait! :ss


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## pistol (Mar 23, 2006)

Smoked said:


> I see quite a bit of hype about the Cuban cigars and I find myself wondering if they are really worth the price? My understanding is that the climate in Cuba is the best for growing tobacco but I have had many great cigars that are not Cuban. Do they really live up to the hype?


Just for clarification, the non Cuban cigars (PAM, Tatuaje, Ashton, LFD, etc) that I enjoy are more expensive than the majority of Cuban cigars that I enjoy...


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## Hoodere (Apr 8, 2007)

I have smoked Cubans that were great, I have tasted NC's that are great. I do not like the risks involved in purchasing Cubans. Also I have had a lot of Cubans with manufacturing faults, plugs and so on. I do not believe the Cuban factories maintain manufacturing standards as high as the NC manufacturers.
What I am waiting for is for the embargo to be lifted permitting the NC blenders access to some Cuban leafs. We are very fortunate to have access to the multitude of fine cigars that we enjoy. And in my opinion are just as good or evan better than the Cubans. 
In international competitions the NC's fare extremely well.


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## Woogie (Mar 6, 2007)

ResIpsa said:


> Just a heads up, if you're a U.S. citizen it's illegal to smoke a Cuban cigar anywhere you are in the world. Sorry Woogie.


Very true, very true. I guess my only hope is either regime change in Cuba or a policy change by the U.S.

BTW, I enjoyed this months Cigar Aficianado articles over Cuba. I hope the embargo ends soon, as it looks like a beautiful place to visit and smoke!


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## pistol (Mar 23, 2006)

Hoodere said:


> What I am waiting for is for the embargo to be lifted permitting the NC blenders access to some Cuban leafs.


Can you imagine the price tag that'd be on a Padron, Fuente, or Ashton Cuban blend if/when it becomes possible? I shudder at the thought!


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## bama (Jan 24, 2007)

I don't think Cubans are any better than NCs, but it's personal preference, I guess. I don't think Cubans would be any more popular than NCs, were it not for the embargo. The fact that they are illegal makes them so much "better."


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## jloutlaw (Feb 22, 2007)

Check out the rankings on Top25cigar.com. If I counted correctly, 35 of their top 100 cigars are Cuban. I didn't check the total for all countries, but my guess is that no other country had that many. The top 10 has 3 Cubans a smiliar % to the top 100. The top cigar is a Padron and from Nicaragua. The Cuban's are among the best, but according to all the rankings I've seen the cigars from other countries are just as good. There is an appeal for the forbidden fruit in the US that makes them better when you can get them, but is it worth breaking the law?


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## stevieray (Sep 28, 2006)

moki said:


> What matters is what you like.


That's it in a nutshell


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## No1der (Apr 2, 2007)

ResIpsa said:


> Just a heads up, if you're a U.S. citizen it's illegal to smoke a Cuban cigar anywhere you are in the world. Sorry Woogie.


Well, I'm a dual citizen as I was born in Denmark while my daddy worked for Uncle Sam over there, so does that mean that only 50% of me is allowed to smoke Cubans? :ss

Rob


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## K Baz (Mar 2, 2007)

No1der said:


> Well, I'm a dual citizen as I was born in Denmark while my daddy worked for Uncle Sam over there, so does that mean that only 50% of me is allowed to smoke Cubans? :ss
> 
> Rob


That is correct and if you will accept my suggestion I would suggest you nominate the top half as the half allow to have cubans.


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## dawgs47 (Mar 15, 2007)

I got my 1st one this weekend, and I will be waiting for it to age before smoking it.


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## kvaughan (Jul 11, 2006)

ResIpsa said:


> Just a heads up, if you're a U.S. citizen it's illegal to smoke a Cuban cigar anywhere you are in the world. Sorry Woogie.


I live in Petoria. We can do whatever we want. :r

Fidel says hello.


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## pnoon (Jun 8, 2005)

dawgs47 said:


> I got my 1st one this weekend, and I will be waiting for it to age before smoking it.


You must be a VERY patient person as you are looking at a minimum of 2 to 3 years for a cigar to age. Unless, of course, it is already aged.


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## pistol (Mar 23, 2006)

bama said:


> I don't think Cubans are any better than NCs, but it's personal preference, I guess. I don't think Cubans would be any more popular than NCs, were it not for the embargo. The fact that they are illegal makes them so much "better."


:r The fact that they are illegal makes Cuban cigars better?! I hope that's a personal view too, because I certainly don't agree with it! I guess Europeans and Asians, who as a cigar smoking population (I'm sure that there are exceptions) smoke more Cuban cigars than non Cuban cigars missed the memo that Cuban cigars aren't illegal in their countries?! Go to a B&M anywhere in Europe and I guarantee that 80% of their inventory is from Cuba... I was in Korea a few months ago and went to a cigar shop, and I saw no non Cuban cigars in the store. So why would all of these people who have the legal option to buy and smoke Cuban cigars or non Cuban cigars overwhelmingly decide on an inferior product?


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## txmatt (May 22, 2004)

moki said:


> Some you may like, some you may not like. They are just cigars, and your personal tastes won't suddenly go out the window just because of the island the cigars happened to come from.
> 
> It's like the situation with French wine back in the 70's. Nothing could top French wine, it was the soil, blah blah blah. And then in blind taste tests, Californian wines trounced 'em. The same thing happened again in the rematch.
> 
> ...


^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
*I completely agree with Andrew.*


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## kjd2121 (Jul 13, 2006)

Most of the Cuban cigars I smoke are smooth from the very beginning of the cigar. I'm able to take in smoke and pass it out through my nose without the bite that many NC's have. This goes for some of the real cheap cubans - Jose Piedra.

I've had NC's that are very good (Tatuaje Cojonu 2003), but they take a while to get real smooth.

Cubans are definately a much smoother and more complex smoke than most NC's.

IMHO - :ss:ss


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## croatan (Mar 23, 2005)

No1der said:


> Well, I'm a dual citizen as I was born in Denmark while my daddy worked for Uncle Sam over there, so does that mean that only 50% of me is allowed to smoke Cubans? :ss
> 
> Rob


Unfortunately, the US will impose its penalty on your entire body for such a transgression.

As far as Cubans v non-Cubans: well, some people would rather eat a salad than a steak. I'm not one of them. That doesn't make either one wrong. (Well, to me it does, but that's because I hate vegetables and will probably die an early death, but that's beside the point.)


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## Boston_Dude05 (Oct 10, 2006)

Yeah Cubans are generally great people, except for maybe Castro :r


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## BP22 (Apr 13, 2006)

It's all about personal taste preferences. The best statement I have read regarding Cuban cigars is that they are "*Unique Since 1492*"...smoke what you like. :ss

I think price is not an issue. If I were to smoke Cuban cigars the majority of them would be under $5 a stick... :tu


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## Islesfan (Mar 1, 2005)

Depends on what YOU like. To me some are some aren't, the same as liking some NC's and not so much others.


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## stormin (Feb 11, 2005)

Yes. :tu


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## Corona Gigante-cl (Sep 8, 2005)

stormin said:


> Yes. :tu


:tpd:


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## bama (Jan 24, 2007)

pistol said:


> :r The fact that they are illegal makes Cuban cigars better?! I hope that's a personal view too, because I certainly don't agree with it! I guess Europeans and Asians, who as a cigar smoking population (I'm sure that there are exceptions) smoke more Cuban cigars than non Cuban cigars missed the memo that Cuban cigars aren't illegal in their countries?! Go to a B&M anywhere in Europe and I guarantee that 80% of their inventory is from Cuba... I was in Korea a few months ago and went to a cigar shop, and I saw no non Cuban cigars in the store. So why would all of these people who have the legal option to buy and smoke Cuban cigars or non Cuban cigars overwhelmingly decide on an inferior product?


Indeed it is.

And to answer your question, perhaps they've bought into the hype or perhaps b/c, in certain countries, status symbols are important.


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## Blueface (May 28, 2005)

I smoked a Cuban once.
Actually, come to think of it, she was so hot, more like she smoked me. 

That aside, those that have had Cuban cigars know that what makes them appealing is a simple fact, they are unique in their taste and they are great.
Are all Cuban cigars equal in quality/taste? Of course not.
Are there non Cubans that are much better than some Cubans, of course. Take the Padron Annis as an example.

BUT Cubans are unique indeed and they are cherished by the world as the best, not just by folks in the US because they are illegal. There is a reason why they cannot meet the WORLD's (not just USA) demand for them.


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## lenguamor (Nov 23, 2006)

Why, yes. Yes we are. :ss


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## Blueface (May 28, 2005)

bama said:


> Indeed it is.
> 
> And to answer your question, perhaps they've bought into the hype or perhaps b/c, in certain countries, status symbols are important.


:r 
Taste do vary and I respect that.
However, that is still funny what you just said.


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## ResIpsa (Mar 8, 2006)

Blueface said:


> I smoked a Cuban once.
> Actually, come to think of it, she was so hot, more like she smoked me.


I had a smokin' Cuban once. Is that the same thing


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## Blueface (May 28, 2005)

ResIpsa said:


> I had a smokin' Cuban once. Is that the same thing


Vic,
You too?:r


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## txdyna65 (Aug 21, 2006)

Blueface said:


> My wife thinks I am.
> Frankly, I think the same of her.
> 
> Oh crap, cigars. Didn't read that.


Dunno, I'll let ya know next month when I meet him.....so far he's been a great guy though :ss


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## Blueface (May 28, 2005)

BTW,
I might add that Cubans are in fact legal in the US.
I can prove it.

(line tossed........waiting........waiting..........bite, come one, bite)


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## ResIpsa (Mar 8, 2006)

Blueface said:


> Vic,
> You too?:r


Yes Indeed Carlos! Smokin' Cubans....mmmmmm......:dr


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## Blueface (May 28, 2005)

GREAT CUBANS

Teofilo Stevenson
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teofilo_Stevenson


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## Blueface (May 28, 2005)

GREAT SMOKING HOT CUBANS

Cameron Diaz
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cameron_Diaz


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## Blueface (May 28, 2005)

GREAT SMOKING HOT CUBANS WITH A LONG Assh

Eva Mendez
http://www.evamendes.com/


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## Blueface (May 28, 2005)

GREAT I WOULDN'T MIND SMOKING THIS CUBAN, CUBAN

Jamie Lynn-Siegler
http://www.hbo.com/sopranos/cast/character/meadow_soprano.shtml


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## Blueface (May 28, 2005)

GREAT CUBAN ON MY LIST OF CUBANS

Daisy Fuentes
http://www.idigdaisy.com/


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## Mr. White (Dec 4, 2004)

Smoked said:


> I see quite a bit of hype about the Cuban cigars and I find myself wondering if they are really worth the price? My understanding is that the climate in Cuba is the best for growing tobacco but I have had many great cigars that are not Cuban. Do they really live up to the hype?


I really don't think you will get a definitive answer here. On the one hand, yes, some of them really are that good. On the other hand, there are some really good NC's too.

However, Cuban cigars are not for the faint of heart, especially here in the U.S.A, because you not only have to factor in the cost of the stogies, but the potential for seizure by customs, and the very real and dreaded OFAC letters/pre-penalty fines that a lot of people are getting nailed with.

IMO, If you have to worry about the cost of a box of Cuban Cigars, then you'll be doing yourself a big favor by sticking to NC's, because in the end those Cuban cigars can cost you a lot more than just the price of a box or cab.


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## Blueface (May 28, 2005)

WIFE'S FAVORITE CUBAN THAT SHE WOULD LIKE TO SMOKE (she made me do it or I can't go out and play)

Andy Garcia
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000412/


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## burninator (Jul 11, 2006)

Blueface said:


> BTW,
> I might add that Cubans are in fact legal in the US.
> I can prove it.
> 
> (line tossed........waiting........waiting..........bite, come one, bite)


Really?! How can I get some?!!!


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## Blueface (May 28, 2005)

THIS LINK NSFW - NSFKids - NSFWife

Had to throw this out here and open at your discretion.
This is a crazy Cuban, Niurka Marcos, when she posed for Playboy.
Yikes!!!

http://forums.hollywood.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/36360111/m/499106379


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## Blueface (May 28, 2005)

*Re: Are Cubans really that great?*

So........hopefully I have contributed to answering the question of the thread, "Are Cubans really that great?"
(finally decided to put that "capital" thing on the C on Cuban on the title).


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## Seanohue (Oct 2, 2006)

Blueface said:


> GREAT SMOKING HOT CUBANS
> 
> Cameron Diaz
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cameron_Diaz


I actually did not know Cameron Diaz was Cuban. Learn something new everyday, and from Carlos!


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## Nely (Nov 11, 2004)

Are cubans really that great?
Yeah they are. But they loose their oomph with age. Carlos can tell you all about that and where in Canada you can get the special blue pill:r
BTW: Here is a better Cuban:
http://www.psxextreme.com/wallpapers/psp/Vida-Guerra-02.jpg

edited by me


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## Blueface (May 28, 2005)

Nely said:


> Are cubans really that great?
> Yeah they are. But they loose their oomph with age. Carlos can tell you all about that and where in Canada you can get the special blue pill:r


Nelson, you PUNK!!!
You sign on.
Tell my secrets.
Then sign off, all in a minute?
Who is the real minute man here?:r


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## Nely (Nov 11, 2004)

See what I mean? I've been here all along:hn


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## Blueface (May 28, 2005)

Nely said:


> See what I mean? I've been here all along:hn


Your little green light is off.
How could I forget Vida?


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## Corona Gigante-cl (Sep 8, 2005)

Nely said:


> BTW: Here is a better Cuban:


Could we not do the whole T&A thing again, please? This is not the place. PM me and I can direct you to some more appropriate sites.


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## lenguamor (Nov 23, 2006)

Seanohue said:


> I actually did not know Cameron Diaz was Cuban. Learn something new everyday, and from Carlos!


Half-Cuban. Jamie-Lynn too.


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## Trooper (Jan 16, 2007)

We have a cuban family in our neighborhood - and man, can they throw the baseball - they never get tired like my peoples do - so, yeah - cubans are great!


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## floydp (Jun 6, 2004)

Blueface said:


> Your little green light is off.
> How could I forget Vida?


Oh boy Vida, yeah I like cubans just fine. Oh yeah Carlos is a nice feller too. I've read their smokes ain't bad either.


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## moki (Jan 12, 2004)

pistol said:


> :r The fact that they are illegal makes Cuban cigars better?! I hope that's a personal view too, because I certainly don't agree with it! I guess Europeans and Asians, who as a cigar smoking population (I'm sure that there are exceptions) smoke more Cuban cigars than non Cuban cigars missed the memo that Cuban cigars aren't illegal in their countries?! Go to a B&M anywhere in Europe and I guarantee that 80% of their inventory is from Cuba... I was in Korea a few months ago and went to a cigar shop, and I saw no non Cuban cigars in the store. So why would all of these people who have the legal option to buy and smoke Cuban cigars or non Cuban cigars overwhelmingly decide on an inferior product?


Premium non-Cuban cigars are almost exclusively targeted at the largest cigar market in the world, the USA. For most brands, selling abroad is a token gesture done primarily to maintain world-wide trademarks.

I know plenty of people in countries outside of the USA who eagerly seek Padrons, Opus, Anejos, Davidoffs, VSGs, and other non-Cuban cigars. They are nearly impossible to get, because manufacturers don't really care, they are targeting the US market.

In addition, there are plenty of us who have access to just about any cigar we choose; the decision is made based on taste, not country of origin.


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## Smoked (Apr 12, 2007)

Thanks for the informative posts guys. I'll stick with the available smokes for now and proceed as time goes on.


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## RJT (Feb 12, 2005)

Blueface said:


> :r
> Glad to see I have not lost my predictability, huh?


I was going to say I think Carlos is great as far as Cubans go.


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## Ivory Tower (Nov 18, 2005)

If I'm smoking them, they are. :r


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## Stonato~ (Dec 22, 2006)

Smoked said:


> I see quite a bit of hype about the Cuban cigars and I find myself wondering if they are really worth the price? My understanding is that the climate in Cuba is the best for growing tobacco but I have had many great cigars that are not Cuban. Do they really live up to the hype?


Try some, and try some aged. 
I see alot of talk about smoking what you like, and your taste is all that matters. Yes, that is true. But the question wasn't "should we smoke what we like". It's, are they worth the price and do they live up to the hype. There are some things that are universally accepted regardless of what we like... a Ferrari is a better car than a Civic. Yes, Cubans really are that great. This is not MHO!


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## Stonato~ (Dec 22, 2006)

Blueface said:


> WIFE'S FAVORITE CUBAN THAT SHE WOULD LIKE TO SMOKE (she made me do it or I can't go out and play)
> 
> Andy Garcia
> http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000412/


c'mon? You forgot the most lovable Cuban of all time!!!
Poor Desi.


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## Fistville (Mar 26, 2007)

I think they are fantastic, but it's all personal taste. I'd pass up alot of cubans for specific NCs though, and if you aren't patient enough to age, they can be a pretty lackluster experiance.


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## wharfrathoss (Dec 27, 2006)

if my cigar budget was unlimited, i'd smoke cubans plenty-being what it is though, i still find a lot of smokes to enjoy-i've enjoyed the few cubans i've had, but they're different, not better IMHO


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## TheDirector (Nov 22, 2006)

My answer is YUP!


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## havana_lover (Feb 15, 2007)

I think they have a taste all of there own, something a NC just doesnt have.. Does that make them better? yes and no it makes them different, sometimes I want the NC and not the cuban its all depending on what mood Im in..


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## moki (Jan 12, 2004)

havana_lover said:


> I think they have a taste all of there own, something a NC just doesnt have.. Does that make them better? yes and no it makes them different, sometimes I want the NC and not the cuban its all depending on what mood Im in..


Certainly that makes sense. But what doesn't make sense to me at least is to talk about "Cuban cigars" as if they are a monolithic entity. There are dozens of different lines of cigars from Cuba; they do not all taste the same, otherwise there would be little point in having different lines of cigars in the first place.

I also do not find any taste similarities between, say, a Guantanamera and a Vegas Robaina, or between a Bolivar and a Quai d'Orsay, or say a Partagas and a Quintero.

Thus to me at least, it makes more sense to discuss lines of cigars, not country of origin. I've had plenty of cigars from Cuba that I've loved, and plenty that I thought sucked. Usually it is somewhere in the middle, the same as with cigars from outside of Cuba.

The other thing is that I fully agree that to really appreciate Cuban cigars, you need to be smoking nicely aged stock. However what people often miss is that the same holds true for premium cigars from outside of Cuba. As a for instance, given the choice between smoking a 10 year old Padron 1964 Anniversary and a 10 year old Punch, I would take the Padron every time. But I'd take a 10 year old Cohiba in lieu of either. 

But you can't compare relatively "fresh" cigars from outside of Cuba to aged Cuban cigars... premium tobacco with a good bit of age on it has the advantage regardless of the country of origin, for my tastes.


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## Kiss079 (Mar 25, 2007)

I've got this "friend" who loves them.


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## forgop (Apr 18, 2007)

I've really enjoyed the cubans I've smoked. That said, I can enjoy 5 NC cigars a lot more than a single cuban. There are enough good smokes that you can pick up that I can't justify the added cost to be honest.


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## moki (Jan 12, 2004)

forgop said:


> I've really enjoyed the cubans I've smoked. That said, I can enjoy 5 NC cigars a lot more than a single cuban. There are enough good smokes that you can pick up that I can't justify the added cost to be honest.


How much do you typically spend per cigar? Like anything else, there are a range of prices for various lines of Cuban cigars. Some are very inexpensive, and compare very favorably in price to what you may be buying now.


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## RHNewfie (Mar 21, 2007)

I found that I had no middle ground, the ones I liked I loved and the ones I didn't I hated.


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## pistol (Mar 23, 2006)

moki said:


> Premium non-Cuban cigars are almost exclusively targeted at the largest cigar market in the world, the USA. For most brands, selling abroad is a token gesture done primarily to maintain world-wide trademarks.
> 
> I know plenty of people in countries outside of the USA who eagerly seek Padrons, Opus, Anejos, Davidoffs, VSGs, and other non-Cuban cigars. They are nearly impossible to get, because manufacturers don't really care, they are targeting the US market.
> 
> In addition, there are plenty of us who have access to just about any cigar we choose; the decision is made based on taste, not country of origin.


Andrew,
I agree with what you said completely and respect your opinion as a great BOTL. However, what I said was not incorrect. Overseas, really in any market other than the American one, B&M's carry almost exclusively Habana cigars. True, a lot of this is due to Non Cuban cigar company marketing heavily in the USA, but in addition to that, the majority demand throughout the world is for Cuban cigars. You are right, my Korean uncle is a big cigar guy and he asks me to send him some premium non Cuban smokes (Opus X and Padron in particular). There are non Cuban sticks that I enjoy very much especially the LFD and PAM. However, my point is those premo non Cuban smoke cost MUCH more than a regular production Cuban smoke. IMHO, I'd rather smoke 80% of the Cuban marcas (like you said, not a fan of all of them- vegueros, Piedra, etc), than 80% of the non Cuban lines out there. Why do all of the non Cuban cigars boast cuban seed tobacs? I believe a lot of it is because of marketing, but it cannot be denied that Cuban cigars are universally recognized to be the gold standard (not just in the USA, where they are illegal). Either way, I agree with you that there are many excellent non Cuban cigars out there; I just don't agree that as a group (keep in mind the "as a group") 80% of non Cuban cigars can deliver the same smoking experience at the same price point as their Cuban counterparts.


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## moki (Jan 12, 2004)

pistol said:


> Andrew,
> I agree with what you said completely and respect your opinion as a great BOTL. However, what I said was not incorrect. Overseas, really in any market other than the American one, B&M's carry almost exclusively Habana cigars. True, a lot of this is due to Non Cuban cigar company marketing heavily in the USA, but in addition to that, the majority demand throughout the world is for Cuban cigars. You are right, my Korean uncle is a big cigar guy and he asks me to send him some premium non Cuban smokes (Opus X and Padron in particular). There are non Cuban sticks that I enjoy very much especially the LFD and PAM. However, my point is those premo non Cuban smoke cost MUCH more than a regular production Cuban smoke. IMHO, I'd rather smoke 80% of the Cuban marcas (like you said, not a fan of all of them- vegueros, Piedra, etc), than 80% of the non Cuban lines out there. Why do all of the non Cuban cigars boast cuban seed tobacs?


The same reason that friends of mine who have never smoked a cigar _in their life_ say they want to try a Cuban cigar. Why?

It isn't because of the taste. It isn't because that's what they like. It isn't because of what they know. It's because of perception.

There's a story that I've mentioned before, but I'll mention it again. A guy I know was a "Cuban snob" -- he would refuse to smoke anything other than Cuban cigars. He'd try some non Cuban cigars, then wrinkle his nose and go back to his Cubans.

Well, as it turns out, he was smoking fake Cuban cigars obtained via a "source" in Miami. Likely crappy Honduran "Fauxibas". But it didn't matter, because he _thought_ he was smoking "the best in the world".

Perception is a very powerful thing. Engage in a blind taste test sometime, I assure you that you'll be surprised.

Now, all that being said, I fully understand and agree with people who have developed a penchant for the taste profile of particular lines of cigars, regardless of where they happen to come from.

For some people, there's nothing like a Cuban Bolivar, because they have become intimately familiar with the taste over the years. But that doesn't translate into "all Cuban cigars" are this or that.

I think we essentially agree on things, but are simply coming at it from different angles.


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## punch (Mar 5, 2005)

moki said:


> Certainly that makes sense. But what doesn't make sense to me at least is to talk about "Cuban cigars" as if they are a monolithic entity. There are dozens of different lines of cigars from Cuba; they do not all taste the same, otherwise there would be little point in having different lines of cigars in the first place.
> 
> I also do not find any taste similarities between, say, a Guantanamera and a Vegas Robaina, or between a Bolivar and a Quai d'Orsay, or say a Partagas and a Quintero.
> 
> ...


Yes . . . to nearly every word (I'm not that fond of Cohiba).


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## moki (Jan 12, 2004)

pistol said:


> Andrew,
> I agree with what you said completely and respect your opinion as a great BOTL. However, what I said was not incorrect. Overseas, really in any market other than the American one, B&M's carry almost exclusively Habana cigars. True, a lot of this is due to Non Cuban cigar company marketing heavily in the USA, but in addition to that, the majority demand throughout the world is for Cuban cigars.


Just to touch on this part of your post a bit more... were there no embargo, I agree that the majority of the cigars demanded in the USA would be Cuban cigars as well. It only makes sense, given the history of the cigar producing culture.

So in markets outside of the USA, you not only have the history and perception of Cuban cigars as being "the chit" but they also have the world wide distribution network, and familiarity with smokers in terms of branding. Add in the fact that non-Cuban cigar manufacturers just don't care about markets outside of the USA (for the most part), and the result is fairly obvious.

This is a very, very hard hurdle to overcome. Nothing short of a world-wide embargo on Cuba would really make a dent in it, in my opinion, regardless of the quality of cigars being produced outside of Cuba. However it is interesting to note that Davidoff continues to sell their cigars strongly around the world, especially in Europe, despite having abandoned Cuba in favor of the Dominican Republic for their cigar production some 15 years ago or so. Branding.

Meanwhile the non-Cuban cigars sold to the USA exist only because of Cuba; exiles brought with them experience, and are producing wonderful cigar that are _almost entirely_ marketed towards the USA. Seriously, I know many people who work at cigar companies, and any sales outside of the USA are considered as being entirely tangental, done mostly to maintain world-wide trademarks.

It might interest you, though, that in places like The Netherlands, France, etc., the majority of cigars that are sold are not Cuban cigars. They are local blends/varieties. Now I grant you that this is like Bud being the best selling beer, but it's still interesting. 

So the fact that Habanos are world-regarded as the best premium cigars not only makes sense, but there's really no other possible situation given the way the markets have developed.


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## pistol (Mar 23, 2006)

moki said:


> The same reason that friends of mine who have never smoked a cigar _in their life_ say they want to try a Cuban cigar. Why?
> 
> It isn't because of the taste. It isn't because that's what they like. It isn't because of what they know. It's because of perception.
> 
> ...


You are correct, we are agreeing here! There's no need to engage in a blind taste test because I really do enjoy more than a handful non Cuban cigars. I'm a big fan of both box pressed LFD releases, and the PAM 64 is also a very nice cigar to me. I just have to pay an arm and a leg for them! I've never been a fan of the Fuente lines for some reason (except the Anejos, which I enjoy, but haven't smoked enough of because they are so limited), but I also enjoy the Tatuajes (however, see the arm and a leg reference above!). I've never disagreed about the quality of many non Cuban cigars. In fact, the only reason I entered this quagmire is because someone said Cuban cigars are only viewed as good because they are illegal in the United States (which I whole heartedly disagree with, and I think you do to).
PS- I also smoke two el cheapo bundle smokes in the El Mejor and Nestor maduros, and like them a lot on the cheap!


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## moki (Jan 12, 2004)

pistol said:


> In fact, the only reason I entered this quagmire is because someone said Cuban cigars are only viewed as good because they are illegal in the United States (which I whole heartedly disagree with, and I think you do to).


Yep, we're on the same page. That I would certainly disagree with... in fact my most recent purchase was "Esplendido"


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## Corona Gigante-cl (Sep 8, 2005)

moki said:


> I know plenty of people in countries outside of the USA who eagerly seek Padrons, Opus, Anejos, Davidoffs, VSGs, and other non-Cuban cigars. They are nearly impossible to get, because manufacturers don't really care, they are targeting the US market.


Andrew, it's not that I disagree with anything you've said, but I think you've got a bit of a circular argument going here. I think if Consolidated Dog Rocket, USA ® thought they could turn a profit in Europe, South America, or Asia, anywhere else in the world, then they would do so, using all the tariff-busting, rock'n'roll marketing techniques at which US-based multinationals so excel. So what's stopping them? I think the answer is clear. The vast majority of the cigars sold in this country wouldn't stand a chance in a free market where they would have to compete head-to-head with Cuban cigars on the basis of quality and value. The Padrons, Fuentes, (I would add AVO), etc you cite are the exceptions rather than the general rule.



moki said:


> Yep, we're on the same page. That I would certainly disagree with... in fact my most recent purchase was "Esplendido"


97s?


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## pistol (Mar 23, 2006)

Corona Gigante said:


> The vast majority of the cigars sold in this country wouldn't stand a chance in a free market where they would have to compete head-to-head with Cuban cigars on the basis of quality and value. The Padrons, Fuentes, (I would add AVO), etc you cite are the exceptions rather than the general rule.
> 
> 97s?


That's what I was trying to say!:ss


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## Tristan (Jul 11, 2006)

Why wait when you can enjoy an ISOM right now!

http://www.jrcigars.com/index.cfm?page=cig_view&itemcode=ISLA

:ss :tu


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## moki (Jan 12, 2004)

Corona Gigante said:


> Andrew, it's not that I disagree with anything you've said, but I think you've got a bit of a circular argument going here. I think if Consolidated Dog Rocket, USA ® thought they could turn a profit in Europe, South America, or Asia, anywhere else in the world, then they would do so, using all the tariff-busting, rock'n'roll marketing techniques at which US-based multinationals so excel. So what's stopping them? I think the answer is clear. The vast majority of the cigars sold in this country wouldn't stand a chance in a free market where they would have to compete head-to-head with Cuban cigars on the basis of quality and value. The Padrons, Fuentes, (I would add AVO), etc you cite are the exceptions rather than the general rule.


I disagree with you utterly. Again, many people have access to whatever cigars they want, myself included. There are plenty of non-Cuban cigars that not only "stand a chance", but in my mind, also kick the crap out of many Cuban cigars. This is for my personal tastes, of course, and yours may vary.

What you are missing is that the USA is the world's largest cigar market. Companies like Padron don't need to care about any other markets, and in fact, would not be able to supply major pushes world-wide.

You've also neatly side-stepped the issue of Davidoff continuing to be a very strong-selling world-wide brand despite leaving Cuba 15 years ago or so. I'd argue that while Padrons, Fuentes, Avos, etc. may be "exceptional", so also are Bolivars, Cohibas, and Partagas. There are quite a number of marginal Cuban brands that I just could care less about.



> 97s?


...but of course


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## Freeman (Jun 7, 2006)

Smoked said:


> I see quite a bit of hype about the Cuban cigars and I find myself wondering if they are really worth the price? My understanding is that the climate in Cuba is the best for growing tobacco but I have had many great cigars that are not Cuban. Do they really live up to the hype?


That is a great question and it is not really all that simple to answer. The short answer is yes. Yes Cubans are wonderful when they are ON. However they are not always ON.

IMHO Cuban tobacco (grown in Cuba) is most certainly superior to anything else, however great tobacco alone does not a good cigar make. Some Cuban cigars are just in such high demand that attention to detail is lost in the process and sometimes you find yourself stuck with a stick that is just unsmokeable (unsmokeable is that even a word?).

There are many NC cigars which are outstanding, but just in a different way, and IMHO you should avail yourself of these before you take the plunge. I love a good Rib eye steak, however, as good as Rib eye on the grill is, it's a poor substitute when my craving is for Long Island Bay Scallops. Both are enjoyable, but in different ways.

Just my 2 cents.

Enjoy the journey, And may the lord have mercy on your soul! :w

Ken


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## icehog3 (Feb 20, 2005)

Yes. Yes they are.


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## carni (Jan 18, 2007)

First off cubans sandwhiches are really that great:dr so good.

cc are superior to nc. the only nc that are in the ballpark are from padron, fuente, and pepin. avo close but not that close. even at that, the best of each brand are only considered.

the only argument you can make, nc better than cc, is consistency and construction. however, in my experience i have had more plugged nc than cc and super premium nc (10+) have let me down more times than any cc.

so if your arguing premium priced counterparts, forget it. if you are arguing avg. priced ($4-$7) nc you can find bigger vitolas than cc but not a better cigar.

also, to each his own. everyone has an opinion and mine is that, an opinion.


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## moki (Jan 12, 2004)

carni said:


> cc are superior to nc. the only nc that are in the ballpark are from padron, fuente, and pepin. avo close but not that close. even at that, the best of each brand are only considered.


Sorta like French wines are the best in the world because of the soil, climate, etc., right?

That's what most people thought, anyway. Now the situation has changed.

_(And yes, you might argue that wine and cigars are two totally different things... but the claims and reasoning the proponents of each have used are identical in terms of mind-share, heritage, tradition, seed, soil, climate, etc. They are also both luxury taste-oriented products, and French wines did indeed dominate the world for quite some time. Now things have changed.)_



> the only argument you can make, nc better than cc, is consistency and construction. however, in my experience i have had more plugged nc than cc and super premium nc (10+) have let me down more times than any cc.


I'm curious as to why you believe that Davidoff continues to sell extremely strongly world-wide, in markets where they appear side by side with Cuban cigars. This despite the fact that they pulled out of Cuba for quality reasons 15 years ago, and are now made in the Dominican Republic with no Cuban tobacco whatever.


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## pistol (Mar 23, 2006)

moki said:


> Sorta like French wines are the best in the world because of the soil, climate, etc., right?
> 
> That's what most people thought, anyway. Now the situation has changed.
> 
> ...


Davidoff sells very well because it is a quality, limited production line with an impeccable lineage. I never said that there weren't excellent non Cuban cigars out there, because there are! However, for my money, I'll take an 8$ Punch SS#1 (with a couple years) over a 15$ Davidoff (or $300/stick Cuban Davi!)anytime! My biggest issue with the majority of outstanding non Cuban cigars is the ultra premium price point that they retail at...


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## forgop (Apr 18, 2007)

moki said:


> How much do you typically spend per cigar? Like anything else, there are a range of prices for various lines of Cuban cigars. Some are very inexpensive, and compare very favorably in price to what you may be buying now.


Pretty much all the smokes I buy are all robusto/churchill/double corona in size. Therefore, when you're buying Partagas Lusitania's, RyJ churchills, HdM double coronas, you're probably paying around $15-20 each.

In comparison, I've completely filled my humidor, zipidor (and a cigar jar/Legends humidor courtesy of cbid) with approximately 225 sticks over the past 3 weeks at an average of $2/stick.


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## pistol (Mar 23, 2006)

forgop said:


> Pretty much all the smokes I buy are all robusto/churchill/double corona in size. Therefore, when you're buying Partagas Lusitania's, RyJ churchills, HdM double coronas, you're probably paying around $15-20 each.
> 
> In comparison, I've completely filled my humidor, zipidor (and a cigar jar/Legends humidor courtesy of cbid) with approximately 225 sticks over the past 3 weeks at an average of $2/stick.


You pay how much for a Lusi?!?! I pay less than $12/stick for them. Compare that to a premium Non Cuban churchill. Don't compare them to the cigar bundles that you get off of cbid because you are comparing premium to non premium. When you start comparing bargain prices to cigars that don't sell at bargain auctions, you are comparing apples and oranges... I think people have a skewed view of Cuban Cigar prices because people keep talking about how expensive Cuban cigars are. They are in fact usually cheaper than the premium non Cuban smokes (PAM/PAN, Davi, most of Fuente's lines, LFD's premium lines, Tatuaje's premium lines, AVO's premium lines, VSG/ESG, etc).


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## jdtexan (Feb 12, 2007)

*yes!!!!!!!*


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## icehog3 (Feb 20, 2005)

pistol said:


> When you start comparing bargain prices to cigars that don't sell at bargain auctions, you are comparing apples and oranges...


More like apples and turds. :2 :r


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## Corona Gigante-cl (Sep 8, 2005)

forgop said:


> Pretty much all the smokes I buy are all robusto/churchill/double corona in size. Therefore, when you're buying Partagas Lusitania's, RyJ churchills, HdM double coronas, you're probably paying around $15-20 each.
> 
> In comparison, I've completely filled my humidor, zipidor (and a cigar jar/Legends humidor courtesy of cbid) with approximately 225 sticks over the past 3 weeks at an average of $2/stick.


A man who knows a great deal when he sees one :tu

Without wishing to give offense, I'd be interested to know how many of those 'gars you end up smoking because if your trajectory is anything like average, I predict you'll be giving away at least half of those sticks. Or trying to.


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## forgop (Apr 18, 2007)

Corona Gigante said:


> A man who knows a great deal when he sees one :tu
> 
> Without wishing to give offense, I'd be interested to know how many of those 'gars you end up smoking because if your trajectory is anything like average, I predict you'll be giving away at least half of those sticks. Or trying to.


Why would I need to give away HdM Excalibur #1's, Rocky Patel Vintage churchills/robustos, and 5 Vegas?

Sure, some of them aren't premiums, but most of them are a good everyday/value cigar. Until my wife is done raising the younguns all day and can finish school and get a "real" job with a nice income, these wil do for me for the most part.

I'm in the process of splurging on maybe a 10 pack to store for special occasions, but other than that, I'm fine. :ss


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## LiteHedded (Apr 10, 2005)

Smoked said:


> I see quite a bit of hype about the Cuban cigars and I find myself wondering if they are really worth the price? My understanding is that the climate in Cuba is the best for growing tobacco but I have had many great cigars that are not Cuban. Do they really live up to the hype?


well
they're not bad that's for sure


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## pistol (Mar 23, 2006)

forgop said:


> Why would I need to give away HdM Excalibur #1's, Rocky Patel Vintage churchills/robustos, and 5 Vegas?
> 
> Sure, some of them aren't premiums, but most of them are a good everyday/value cigar. Until my wife is done raising the younguns all day and can finish school and get a "real" job with a nice income, these wil do for me for the most part.
> 
> I'm in the process of splurging on maybe a 10 pack to store for special occasions, but other than that, I'm fine. :ss


Nobody's saying you need to! What CG was saying (correct me if I'm wrong please!), and he is correct, most new members here make large cigarbid purchases. After a few months here their tastes change because they are exposed to more and more cigars (including Cuban cigars). After this exposure, many members reflect and realize that their mass Cbid purchases probably won't get smoked as they begin to gravitate to more and more premium cigars. The majority of such members give away or bomb these smokes away to make room for purchases that satisfy their new tastes...


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## Blueface (May 28, 2005)

forgop said:


> In comparison, I've completely filled my humidor, zipidor (and a cigar jar/Legends humidor courtesy of cbid) with approximately 225 sticks over the past 3 weeks at an average of $2/stick.


No offense intended but sort of reminds me of going to Ruth's Chris or DelFrisco's and dropping $40 bucks on a steak.
I could have gone to the supermarket and bought lots of pounds of ground hamburger beef and filled my freezer with the same amount of money.
OK, but, which would I prefer to eat? Tough one.


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## pistol (Mar 23, 2006)

Blueface said:


> No offense intended but sort of reminds me of going to Ruth's Chris or DelFrisco's and dropping $40 bucks on a steak.
> I could have gone to the supermarket and bought lots of pounds of ground hamburger beef and filled my freezer with the same amount of money.
> OK, but, which would I prefer to eat? Tough one.


That depends, do you have any Hamburger Helper? I like HH :dr :r


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## Blueface (May 28, 2005)

ANOTHER GREAT CUBAN

Man actually was one of only three or so in his time/his playing days that ever played all nine positions in one MLB game.
Good ole Campi
Bert Campaneris
http://www.baseball-reference.com/c/campabe01.shtml


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## Blueface (May 28, 2005)

ANOTHER GREAT CUBAN WHO TURNED NOT SO GREAT

Rafael "AKA I AM ON STEROIDS" Palmeiro
http://www.baseball-reference.com/p/palmera01.shtml


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## Blueface (May 28, 2005)

A JOKER OF A GREAT CUBAN

Who entertained us for years on Batman
Cesar Romero
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cesar_Romero


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## TheMagicDragon (Apr 20, 2007)

They don't suck.


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## Blueface (May 28, 2005)

A GREAT CUBAN WHO LOVED GREAT CUBAN CIGARS

Mr. "look at the sky and how the heck the ball is a strike I don't know" Luis Tiant.
Man did he love his stogies.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/t/tiantlu01.shtml


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## TheMagicDragon (Apr 20, 2007)

Blueface said:


> A GREAT CUBAN WHO LOVED GREAT CUBAN CIGARS
> 
> I like Cubans. Period. The people _and_ their stogies! :ss


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## forgop (Apr 18, 2007)

pistol said:


> Nobody's saying you need to! What CG was saying (correct me if I'm wrong please!), and he is correct, most new members here make large cigarbid purchases. After a few months here their tastes change because they are exposed to more and more cigars (including Cuban cigars). After this exposure, many members reflect and realize that their mass Cbid purchases probably won't get smoked as they begin to gravitate to more and more premium cigars. The majority of such members give away or bomb these smokes away to make room for purchases that satisfy their new tastes...


I understand and agree with your point, but just because I'm a noob on this board doesn't mean I'm a noob to smoking cigars. I'm only 32, but I've been smoking cigars(not the gas station variety)for over 10 years now. It's been an on again/off again "hobby" for me, but over that amount of time, I've been pretty consistent as to what I've liked.

I've smoked better than 20 different ISOM's(still awaiting to enjoy my Esplindodos that's been aging in my humidor the past 7 years)and without a doubt, they've been great cigars. However, being a single income household while my wife is home with 3 kids all 4 and under, I'll have to hold out on the bigger dollar smokes until they're all in school.


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## forgop (Apr 18, 2007)

Blueface said:


> No offense intended but sort of reminds me of going to Ruth's Chris or DelFrisco's and dropping $40 bucks on a steak.
> I could have gone to the supermarket and bought lots of pounds of ground hamburger beef and filled my freezer with the same amount of money.
> OK, but, which would I prefer to eat? Tough one.


But are you eating steak everyday as well?

If money is no object, you have a point. But when you're trying to get the best value, you're eating more hamburger than steak, aren't you.

Of course, since I just started the Atkins thing yesterday, all I'll be eating for awhile is hamburger, steak, bacon, and eggs.


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## punch (Mar 5, 2005)

pistol said:


> Davidoff sells very well because it is a quality, limited production line with an impeccable lineage. I never said that there weren't excellent non Cuban cigars out there, because there are! However, for my money, I'll take an 8$ Punch SS#1 (with a couple years) over a 15$ Davidoff (or $300/stick Cuban Davi!)anytime! My biggest issue with the majority of outstanding non Cuban cigars is the ultra premium price point that they retail at...


Matter of taste. I'd take a $6.00 Afrique (with a couple of years) over the $8 Punch, and the $15 Davidoff over either. Come to think of it, I'd probably choose the $6.50 Tatuaje Noellas over any of the above. Depends on the time of day and what I have eaten and what I am drinking.


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## pistol (Mar 23, 2006)

punch said:


> Matter of taste. I'd take a $6.00 Afrique (with a couple of years) over the $8 Punch, and the $15 Davidoff over either. Come to think of it, I'd probably choose the $6.50 Tatuaje Noellas over any of the above. Depends on the time of day and what I have eaten and what I am drinking.


I'm with you on the Afrique, those are good (it's been a while since I've had one, may have to dig one up this afternoon)! I really like the Cuban Punch SS#1 with a few years on it though. It really is tough to beat for me!


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## Snakeyes (Mar 1, 2007)

I've only had a few (Cohibas, Monecristo, Punch, RyJ, H.Upmann, Partegas) and while they are very good they are also very expensive (even in Cuba!). I don't think anyone questions that they are great but for the money you can buy a lot more very good alternatives (5 Vegas Series A Alphas come to mind ) Just my :2 

While we are talking about Cubans I find Cohibas to be highly overated. I smoked a few in Cuba and no question, they are a good cigar. As good as the price they fetch? Not IMHO. I find it interesting that an industry that is reliant on personal taste (I much prefer Monte 2's) can allow an entire brand like Cohiba to be that expensive. I just don't get what all the hype is about. Maybe I'm missing something, maybe I'm not smoking them right. Again, just my :2


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## joed (Nov 12, 2005)

icehog3 said:


> More like apples and turds. :2 :r


The fact that someone is making them means that someone is buying them - which tells me that someone likes to smoke turds!


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## Corona Gigante-cl (Sep 8, 2005)

forgop said:


> I understand and agree with your point, but just because I'm a noob on this board doesn't mean I'm a noob to smoking cigars. I'm only 32, but I've been smoking cigars(not the gas station variety)for over 10 years now. It's been an on again/off again "hobby" for me, but over that amount of time, I've been pretty consistent as to what I've liked.
> 
> I've smoked better than 20 different ISOM's(still awaiting to enjoy my Esplindodos that's been aging in my humidor the past 7 years)and without a doubt, they've been great cigars. However, being a single income household while my wife is home with 3 kids all 4 and under, I'll have to hold out on the bigger dollar smokes until they're all in school.


Cool. It's great you can find cigars you enjoy without breaking the bank.

Smoke what you like, like what you smoke!


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## volfan (Jul 15, 2006)

Desi Arnaz was great.


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## donp (Mar 5, 2006)

Smoked said:


> I see quite a bit of hype about the Cuban cigars and I find myself wondering if they are really worth the price? My understanding is that the climate in Cuba is the best for growing tobacco but I have had many great cigars that are not Cuban. Do they really live up to the hype?


A good cigar, if it is hyped, will always live up to the hype if it is properly cared for. IMO that covers cc and nc. You will see on these boards a lot of enthusiasm for Pepin Garcia cigars, nc's which are excellent and usually live up to the hype. In addition, there are many nc's which are much more expensive than cc's and you get what you pay for.


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## [OT] Loki (May 24, 2006)

come on guys, why talk down on a quality low cost stick? There is nothing wrong with enjoying a LVH or something like that. You don't need to burn PAMs evey night to get a quality smoke. I've smoked house brands that I have enjoyed just as much as Punches


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## pistol (Mar 23, 2006)

[OT] Loki said:


> come on guys, why talk down on a quality low cost stick? There is nothing wrong with enjoying a LVH or something like that. You don't need to burn PAMs evey night to get a quality smoke. I've smoked house brands that I have enjoyed just as much as Punches


who's talking down on quality low cost sticks? I don't see where anyone did that...


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## decesaro (Jan 31, 2006)

Better than sexxxx :tu ......

of course what do I know, Ive been married for 14 yrs


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## AuntBee (Apr 20, 2005)

Why yes, they most certainly are.
I believe that the vast majority of cigar lovers who have experienced large samples of both Cubans and Non Cubans will tell you, at equal cost and availability, they would choose the Habano every time. Find me someone who smoked over 100 of each and prefers the NC. He's the same guy who would drive the Civic over the Ferrari if they cost the same price. Just Aunt Bees' opinion.


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## 68TriShield (May 15, 2006)

AuntBee said:


> Why yes, they most certainly are.
> I believe that the vast majority of cigar lovers who have experienced large samples of both Cubans and Non Cubans will tell you, at equal cost and availability, they would choose the Habano every time. Find me someone who smoked over 100 of each and prefers the NC. He's the same guy who would drive the Civic over the Ferrari if they cost the same price. Just Aunt Bees' opinion.


4 posts since 2004,i hope you hang out for a bit and get that post count up.We'd like to hear what else you have to say...


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## broozer (Mar 23, 2006)

YES, cuban cigars are better than NC's and everyone who starts buying them slowly realizes it. they taste much better, have more flavor and don't leave that nasty metal taste in your mouth when you're done smoking them. just last night i smoked a cuban cigar from '01 that was so creamy and peppery that i didn't even need to take a sip of water until i had about 2" left on it. 

if and when you do start smoking cubans then do this: smoke cubans for one month straight and don't smoke any of your favorite NC's. then when the 30 days has passed light up your favorite NC and get back to me/us and tell us how it tastes then. i can promise you'll see the difference then.

bruce


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## broozer (Mar 23, 2006)

AuntBee said:


> Why yes, they most certainly are.
> I believe that the vast majority of cigar lovers who have experienced large samples of both Cubans and Non Cubans will tell you, at equal cost and availability, they would choose the Habano every time. Find me someone who smoked over 100 of each and prefers the NC. He's the same guy who would drive the Civic over the Ferrari if they cost the same price. Just Aunt Bees' opinion.


:tu what he said!

bruce


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## Ozone89 (Dec 29, 2006)

I tried a handful of the real McCoy's, and I wasn't that impressed at all. IMO, I honeslty think there are many NC manufactors that really make a nice product, that surpass the Cuban. 

I'm no cigar expert, and I'm starting to realize now..that smoking cigars and rating them ARE just an opinion..NOT Gospel. I've only been smoking cigars for 1 year, and I've learned alot by reading and paying attention to what others had to say. 

Not everyon is going to like the Cuban..just like I'm sure there are people who don't like NC's. 

In the end, it's the love of smoking a cigar that matters to me..not who made it.


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## fireman43 (Oct 15, 2006)

As with anything, there are good and not as good on both sides of the spectrum. You will get varying opinions depending on who you ask. My opinion is that there are greats on both sides. Habanos are the forbidden fruit for us Americans, and many smoke them because they aren't supposed to, and many smoke them because they prefer them to NC's. I smoke them, both CC and NC, because I like em both.:ss


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## Gargamel (Nov 8, 2004)

Ozone89 said:


> I tried a handful of the real McCoy's, and I wasn't that impressed at all. IMO, I honeslty think there are many NC manufactors that really make a nice product, that surpass the Cuban.
> 
> I'm no cigar expert, and I'm starting to realize now..that smoking cigars and rating them ARE just an opinion..NOT Gospel. I've only been smoking cigars for 1 year, and I've learned alot by reading and paying attention to what others had to say.
> 
> ...


There's a problem with smoking _a handful of the real McCoys_. How were they stored? Are they really real? Are they 05, 06, 99, or 2000? Most Havanas are not very good fresh and some boxes and cigars are just "off". I keep hearing about "06-06". Maybe I haven't smoked enough of the 06's but the only ones Ive found palatable so far are SigII's and Trinidad Reyes and Colonials (these are great). And those SigII tubes were only good because they were already smooth.

What I will say is there is a depth and richness I find in Cuban tobacco that I do not find in NC's. Someone said something about a "metallic" taste. I get that often. I've found a correlation between Connecticut wrappers and metal. There are a few NC's I enjoy but it's just a straight forward story. The only flavors I have ever tasted out of an NC is Coffee/espresso, cherries(once), leather, and fried chicken...yes people _fried chicken_. But for the most part they are straight forward and have an unpleasant aftertaste.

Somethings are just the way they are. Back when I used to cultivate other things, it didn't matter what I did or where I did it or where I got it from. The taste of Northern California could not be duplicated. And so it is...

So, yes I think Cubans are great. My stash is hidden away in my house and not on display. I smoke with my bands off. I don't go out Herfing (NTTAWWT). So what I am saying is no one really knows what I smoke and no one on here knows who I am. My cigar collection is probably 90% Cuban. Why? Because they are great.


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## ResIpsa (Mar 8, 2006)

Gargamel said:


> The only flavors I have ever tasted out of an NC is Coffee/espresso, cherries(once), leather, and friend chicken....


What does friend chicken taste like?? Do friends actually taste like chicken??:dr


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## Bigwaved (May 20, 2006)

ResIpsa said:


> What does friend chicken taste like?? Do friends actually taste like chicken??:dr


Everything tastes like chicken...goof ball


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## fireman43 (Oct 15, 2006)

ResIpsa said:


> What does friend chicken taste like?? Do friends actually taste like chicken??:dr


You could always go up to a friend and ask to taste them Vic.:r (Prefrably one of the opposite sex to avoid going down a road you might not care to tread):tu


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## Gargamel (Nov 8, 2004)

ResIpsa said:


> What does friend chicken taste like?? Do friends actually taste like chicken??:dr


If you haven't actually had a Fried chicken w/gravy cigar experience, I feel for you. It's a rare bird...


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## Bigwaved (May 20, 2006)

fireman43 said:


> You could always go up to a friend and ask to taste them Vic.:r (Prefrably one of the opposite sex to avoid going down a road you might not care to tread):tu


Does someone named Pat not taste like chicken?



Gargamel said:


> If you haven't actually had a Fried chicken w/gravy cigar experience, I feel for you. It's a rare bird...


Wet dog, fried chicken with gravy...what are you using to store your cigars in, anyway?


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## ResIpsa (Mar 8, 2006)

Gargamel said:


> If you haven't actually had a Fried chicken w/gravy cigar experience, I feel for you. It's a rare bird...





Bigwaved said:


> Wet dog, fried chicken with gravy...what are you using to store your cigars in, anyway?


I do not want to know what wet dog tastes like..........

as to fried chicken with gravy tasting cigars.....I don't know what fried chicken with gravy tastes like, I'm a northern boy and we don't put gravy on our fried chicken.


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## ResIpsa (Mar 8, 2006)

fireman43 said:


> You could always go up to a friend and ask to taste them Vic.:r (Prefrably one of the opposite sex to avoid going down a road you might not care to tread):tu


Is it wrong to ask a female friend to taste them??


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## ATLHARP (May 3, 2005)

Smoked said:


> I see quite a bit of hype about the Cuban cigars and I find myself wondering if they are really worth the price? My understanding is that the climate in Cuba is the best for growing tobacco but I have had many great cigars that are not Cuban. Do they really live up to the hype?


No they suck and are overpriced, on top of that they will make you pregnant.:ss

ATL


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## burninator (Jul 11, 2006)

ATLHARP said:


> No they suck and are overpriced, on top of that they will make you pregnant.:ss
> 
> ATL


Uh oh, I think I'm due. :hn


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## JPH (Jun 30, 2006)

TheMagicDragon said:


> They don't suck.


:cb


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## Bigwaved (May 20, 2006)

ATLHARP said:


> No they suck and are overpriced, on top of that they will make you pregnant.:ss
> 
> ATL


I saw a picture of a half man/half gerbil in the National Enquirer...


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## jesto68 (Dec 7, 2006)

Bigwaved said:


> I saw a picture of a half man/half gerbil in the National Enquirer...


Was he smoking a Cohiba?


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## donp (Mar 5, 2006)

[OT] Loki said:


> come on guys, why talk down on a quality low cost stick? There is nothing wrong with enjoying a LVH or something like that. You don't need to burn PAMs evey night to get a quality smoke. I've smoked house brands that I have enjoyed just as much as Punches


Good point. And the same would go for talking down higher priced smokes. FWIW, if it's a good smoke, price doesn't matter ie: famous Nicaraguan 3000's. Those are pretty hyped on these boards and for good reason. It is alos one of the reasons I was curious about them and, after a year of hearing about them, I pulled the trigger on a bundle and am glad I did. Some won't buy good higher priced smokes, either out of principle or simply because they cost too much. I for one won't pay 300 bucks for a box of nc's when I can get a box of better tasting cc's for half the amount; a good smoke at the right price is what I go for. Others who are well heeled can and do go for the high priced smokes simply because they can. 
If Smoke wants good smokes at prices he can afford then, IMO keeping an open mind is important; there are good smokes to be had cc or nc.:tu


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## donp (Mar 5, 2006)

broozer said:


> YES, cuban cigars are better than NC's and everyone who starts buying them slowly realizes it. they taste much better, have more flavor and don't leave that nasty metal taste in your mouth when you're done smoking them. just last night i smoked a cuban cigar from '01 that was so creamy and peppery that i didn't even need to take a sip of water until i had about 2" left on it.
> 
> if and when you do start smoking cubans then do this: smoke cubans for one month straight and don't smoke any of your favorite NC's. then when the 30 days has passed light up your favorite NC and get back to me/us and tell us how it tastes then. i can promise you'll see the difference then.
> 
> bruce


Hell I can't do that, I like my nc's too much and like my cc's even more. But above all, I like variety; I don't want to get tired of the nc's I like nor the cc's that I like. It should be a pleasure to decide at the end of a day (or the beginning for that matter), what I feel like smoking along with what kind of drink I feel like to accompany my cigar:dr


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## Blueface (May 28, 2005)

ResIpsa said:


> What does friend chicken taste like?? Do friends actually taste like chicken??:dr





Bigwaved said:


> Everything tastes like chicken...goof ball





fireman43 said:


> You could always go up to a friend and ask to taste them Vic.:r (Prefrably one of the opposite sex to avoid going down a road you might not care to tread):tu





ATLHARP said:


> No they suck and are overpriced, on top of that they will make you pregnant.:ss
> 
> ATL





Bigwaved said:


> I saw a picture of a half man/half gerbil in the National Enquirer...


All I can say is :r


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## Gargamel (Nov 8, 2004)

Bigwaved said:


> Wet dog, fried chicken with gravy...what are you using to store your cigars in, anyway?


It was actually "damp beagle". I probably should have washed that tuppi I store my go to smokes in better considering I used to use it for leftovers. On a serious note you've never had a cigar that smelled of and tasted like home cookin?...it's divine.


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## Bigwaved (May 20, 2006)

jesto68 said:


> Was he smoking a Cohiba?


Marlboro...


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## icehog3 (Feb 20, 2005)

Blueface said:


> A JOKER OF A GREAT CUBAN
> 
> Who entertained us for years on Batman
> Cesar Romero
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cesar_Romero


HOO HOO HOO HOO HOO!!!! :r


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## Swarth (Sep 29, 2006)

I saw a Werewolf smoking a Cohiba and drinking a Pina Colada at Trader Vic's ... and his hair was perfect.


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## cigar no baka (Sep 7, 2005)

In a nutshell, yes and no. I've found a few Cubans to be outstanding, but I've been unimpressed by most of the ones I have tried. I have also had a similar experience with NC sticks - a few outstanding ones, with most of the rest unimpressive.


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## Cadillac (Feb 28, 2007)

YES! For me, Cubans are fantastic. But I notice that they get much better with age. The first box I ever purchased was a box of Monte #2's. I remember trying a couple if sticks right away, and thinking they weren't so hot. What's all the fuss about?

After almost a year sitting, tried one again and couldn't believe the difference! Even the smell was a lot spicier! It is true, there are a lot of really good non-cubans, but it is different.

Ever notice that no one really compares Cubans to cigars made in Honduras? Or Cubans to Dominicans? It's always cubans to non-cubans.


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## Mr.Maduro (Aug 2, 2006)

The ones I hung out with this past Saturday were!!


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## Made in Dade (Aug 5, 2006)

No doubt Cubans are that good.

This one is my favorite.

http://www.evamendes.com/home.html


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## Accident (Sep 12, 2006)

Don't EVER try Macallan 18 single malt. One of the stupidest things I've done all year.

Try a Cuban at least once, but like the SMS, It can get expensive.

Accident


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## Smoked (Apr 12, 2007)

Made in Dade said:


> No doubt Cubans are that good.
> 
> This one is my favorite.
> 
> http://www.evamendes.com/home.html


I have actually had this Cuban before. The taste is good to start but once you get towards the end it starts to bitch and complain. The wrapper also started getting a bit old and I had to put it down. Oh well, I will just try out the next one that comes along.


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## donp (Mar 5, 2006)

Made in Dade said:


> No doubt Cubans are that good.
> 
> This one is my favorite.
> 
> http://www.evamendes.com/home.html


She is friggin gorgeous!


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## Smoked (Apr 12, 2007)

If there is one thing that I have learned from this thread it is that I will have to smoke many many cubans and many many NCs. I have many years of cigar smoking to do before I can come up with my own opinion on this matter. Much love to all of you for providing your input.


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## screwbag (Apr 21, 2007)

Now I'm still new to all this but it seems to me that at least some of it is status and old mystique. much like harley davidson (sorry to Harley fans) it's not the best engineered or the fastest...but it's one of the most expensive because of old school popularity. other examples would be: Levis, Louis Vuitton, etc. 

with that said I really look forward to my travels outside the US to really experience the cigars from Cuba...but for now..I'm happy with what I have and I could never hope to smoke all the kinds available legally


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## eriksson20 (May 2, 2007)

Smoked said:


> I see quite a bit of hype about the Cuban cigars and I find myself wondering if they are really worth the price? My understanding is that the climate in Cuba is the best for growing tobacco but I have had many great cigars that are not Cuban. Do they really live up to the hype?


I love Habanos, but this is a matter of taste yet again... some like brunettes some like blondes...

i find the aroma of cubans more fitted to my taste than a lot of other ones... there is no however any reason to dismiss great Dominican, Hoduran or Nigaraguan treats... hmmmmmm...

so, the right answer to this is: NoYeah?:hn

go figure

miker


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## icehog3 (Feb 20, 2005)

screwbag said:


> Now I'm still new to all this but it seems to me that at least some of it is status and old mystique. much like harley davidson (sorry to Harley fans) it's not the best engineered or the fastest...but it's one of the most expensive because of old school popularity. other examples would be: Levis, Louis Vuitton, etc.
> 
> with that said I really look forward to my travels outside the US to really experience the cigars from Cuba...but for now..I'm happy with what I have and I could never hope to smoke all the kinds available legally


You gotta smoke a bunch of them to form an opinion based on experience. After trying a few Cubans with age, I think you will find it isn't mystique....they really are much better. :2


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## Pablo (Oct 13, 1997)

It's all a matter of personal opinion. I for one love my Harley for what is it, American, steeped in tradition, customizable, and unique. Rumor has it those Cuban cigars can be pretty good as well!:tu


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## Texan in Mexico (Oct 29, 2007)

icehog3 said:


> You gotta smoke a bunch of them to form an opinion based on experience. After trying a few Cubans with age, I think you will find it isn't mystique....they really are much better. :2


They are good, once things settle down and we can get them at a decent price they will be great! You just cant justify the prices. :2


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## cbsmokin (Oct 10, 2007)

The forbidden fruit always tastes better.


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## Smoked (Apr 12, 2007)

Wow, I posted this before every having smoked a Cuban Cigar. I suppose I can now answer my own question. Yes, they are that great. However, there are Non-Cuban Cigars that are also great... just not as many.


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## Simplified (Feb 18, 2006)

This is a fun thread to read. It is like a political debate that really only has one answer. If you some day take the plunge you will know it and not look back. :2


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## Texan in Mexico (Oct 29, 2007)

Simplified said:


> This is a fun thread to read. It is like a political debate that really only has one answer. If you some day take the plunge you will know it and not look back. :2


You are right, just be ready to spend $$$.


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## moki (Jan 12, 2004)

Simplified said:


> This is a fun thread to read. It is like a political debate that really only has one answer. If you some day take the plunge you will know it and not look back. :2


That's silly. This is about wine, but it really applies to anything taste-related, such as cigars...

*The Subjectivity of Taste*

"Experts" who claimed that they could recognize a French wine anywhere, and that French wines were the best in the world, with a depth of flavor you can't find anywhere else because of the soil, tradition, etc. (stop me if this is sounding a bit too familiar) ended up being all wet.

Witness this triumvirate of blind taste testings:

*Round #1* -- *Round #2* -- *Round #3*

Look at how the tasters altered their opinion based on the fancy bottle, or the color of the wine. Look at how miserably the "experts" did at figuring out what wine was French, and what was not.

There is a direct analog here with cigars... every blind taste test I've seen has surprised the hell out of the people who took it, and smashed through the silly preconceptions about "Cuban cigars are the best"... because it's a meaningless phrase.


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## dayplanner (Dec 11, 1997)

Texan in Mexico said:


> They are good, once things settle down and we can get them at a decent price they will be great! You just cant justify the prices. :2


Not true. They aren't any more expensive than most NCs, and in fact cost a good less than some of the super premium NCs as well.


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## moki (Jan 12, 2004)

carbonbased_al said:


> Not true. They aren't any more expensive than most NCs, and in fact cost a good less than some of the super premium NCs as well.


That's true for the regular lines... but the ELs, regionals, and higher-end brands like Cohiba and Trinidad are extremely expensive, with a MSRP well above cigars like Opus X, Anejos, Padron 1964s, etc. for equivalent sizes.

However bear in mind that living in the USA and buying cigars abroad, you are not paying the state tobacco tax, the import duties, nor the state sales taxes. It's not an apples to apples comparison with that in mind.

However I do agree with you that people often think Cubans are more expensive than they really are.


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## billybarue (Mar 20, 2006)

I've commented about this before, but don't have near enough experience as most to make an definitive statement on the matter.

However, my opinion is that the wine comparison makes a lot of sense - to me at least. Both are organic/farmed products which benefit from care and attention. Look for example at the Syrah (Shiraz) grape. Try some Chateauneuf du Pape or Rhone wines (if you like wines like Cabernets or Merlots) and than try some of the great Rhone style wines coming from California that use Shiraz. Nuances and differences, but both fantastic. Shiraz/Syrah is grown in plenty of places around the world, as are many varietals, you just need to find the right conditions to grow it. Variations in soil, mineral content, rain fall, humidity, temperature and sunshine will result in differences but in the end production of the wine depends on the various artisans creating the final product. I think the analogy to cigars is similar.

One very interesting point that is often not mentioned in this analogy is the importance of the blending and artisanship. My wife's uncle was COO for the largest exporter of wine in Australia. While we were visiting (few years ago) he was about to head for France. He said the French were his largest customer and I wondered why. He said the French have been their own worst enemy when it comes to the wine industry. They no doubt produce world class wines, but they are ham-strung from making changes that suit various customers and allow them to produce braoder appeal and more affordable wines. Hearsay, but a good bit of the wine making in France is actually written into "law" (appelations). They cannot change blends or mess with the alcohol content and I would surmise there would be similar restrictions in Cuba with regard to cigars, especially when the embargo is lifted. The Australians (and everyone else for the most part) don't have that restriction. They can blend however they wish and change the alcohol content to suit the tastes, palate, and pocket-book of the of the consumer. Perhaps we are seeing similarities to this phenomenon with blenders and an artisan like Pepin Garcia who can use his vast experience to blend some great cigars.

In the end; more tobacco production (not just in Cuba), the end of the embargo, better artisanship, greater popularity (demand) for cigar smoking (recent "mini-boom") will in the *long-run* result in better product for the consumer. I think that has happened with wines over the last 30+ years and I would expect to see similar results with cigars. And oh BTW we will get the chance, perhaps, to see how aging of some of the recent Pepin products do with aging. TXMatt pointed this out in another thread, but presently there is no way to compare aged NCs because there really aren't any of merit right now - but that is changing too.

FWIW


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## Addiction (May 8, 2007)

Smoked said:


> I see quite a bit of hype about the Cuban cigars and I find myself wondering if they are really worth the price? My understanding is that the climate in Cuba is the best for growing tobacco but I have had many great cigars that are not Cuban. Do they really live up to the hype?


You've gotten dozens of answers already. I'll add one more.

My answer is couched in these facts. I've only been smoking for 6 months. And I've smoked fewer than 100 Cubans. But probably closely approaching 100 Cubans.

In my limited experience they don't live up to the hype. The average cuban cigar is niether better or worse than the average noncuban in my opinion, its just different. A good cuban is really good, but while they are completely different experiences than a good non cuban none of the good cubans I've had have made me say "Wow, time to sell off the 1964s and DCMs." I will readily concede however that aged cubans typically kick the crap out of all other cigars. But I truly believe there are many more NC that are great out of the box than there are cubans that are great out of the box.

That said I'll fall back to the best piece of advice I've ever seen on Club Stogie. The best cigar is the one you like.


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## floydpink (Feb 15, 2007)

screwbag said:


> Now I'm still new to all this but it seems to me that at least some of it is status and old mystique. much like harley davidson (sorry to Harley fans) it's not the best engineered or the fastest...but it's one of the most expensive because of old school popularity. other examples would be: Levis, Louis Vuitton, etc.
> 
> with that said I really look forward to my travels outside the US to really experience the cigars from Cuba...but for now..I'm happy with what I have and I could never hope to smoke all the kinds available legally


Well, hopefully your travels will teach you a little about soul and the race not always won by the swiftest.


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## IHT (Dec 27, 2003)

Addiction said:


> I will readily concede however that aged cubans typically kick the crap out of all other cigars. But I truly believe there are many more NC that are great out of the box than there are cubans that are great out of the box.
> 
> IHT - now if you factor in that non-cubans have been "pre-aged" before you even see them, some even advertise that they're 8 yrs old, etc, etc, then you can't give a fair comparison to a "new" non-cuban cigar to a new cuban cigar, you'd have to have an 8 yr old cuban cigar to be fair, correct?
> 
> That said I'll fall back to the best piece of advice I've ever seen on Club Stogie. *The best cigar is the one you like*.


the last portion of your quote is dead on, that's why i smoke pipes.


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## pnoon (Jun 8, 2005)

IHT said:


> the last portion of your quote is dead on, that's why i smoke pipes.


Indeed.


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## punch (Mar 5, 2005)

moki said:


> That's true for the regular lines... but the ELs, regionals, and higher-end brands like Cohiba and Trinidad are extremely expensive, with a MSRP well above cigars like Opus X, Anejos, Padron 1964s, etc. for equivalent sizes.
> 
> However bear in mind that living in the USA and buying cigars abroad, you are not paying the state tobacco tax, the import duties, nor the state sales taxes. It's not an apples to apples comparison with that in mind.
> 
> However I do agree with you that people often think Cubans are more expensive than they really are.


Very good point. Since we are talking about activities illegal in the United States, we could just compare the lower priced Cubans with a few Opus X or Tatuaje that were stuffed in the pocket while nobody was looking at the local B&M. Nothing beats free. (Not that I would ever contemplate shoplifting. But it is interesting how morality becomes relative in some of these discussions. Breaking the law is breaking the law.) In any case, the point is well taken. I have had quite a few Ashton VSG that really excited me far more than most of the Cubans that I have tried (including the few well aged ones. And yes, I participate in the same relative morality as some of you, so don't think that I am a goody-goody). I wonder how an equivalent sized Cuban Punch or Montecristo would cost after paying import duties, 20% Nebraska Tobacco Tax and 7.5% Sales Tax. I suppose I could do the math again, but the last time that I did, I did not find that the Cuban cigars that I really enjoyed were that much less expensive than the NC that I really enjoy. I do have to admit that I got hold of some PSD4's last year that were really fresh, and I really enjoyed them! Worth every bit of the probably too much that I paid for them!

I find cigars to be a lot like Scotch. I am partial to the malts of Islay. Most of the bottles in my collection come from Islay. I probably view Islay Scotch like many on this list view Cuban cigars, the best of the best. However, there are quite a few Speyside malts that I like, and like better than some of the Islays that I have tried. And for something really different, I enjoy a nice dram of Scapa now and then. Totally different flavor for sure. Like a Cuban Punch Punch compared to a NC Davidoff 4000. But both very good none the less. Now, speaking of Speyside, I have to have a discussion with my wife. When I said that she could have some of my Aberlour, I did not mean the bottle that she got into!


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## hova45 (Jun 17, 2007)

RGD said:


> It's kinda like wine. Do you want a California or French wine. The California wines can be excellent, but most standards are set by French wine. Same deal here.
> 
> Ron


While you are right I would prefer a italian, australian, and or californian or oregon wine to a french.:r


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## hova45 (Jun 17, 2007)

Smoked said:


> Wow, I posted this before every having smoked a Cuban Cigar. I suppose I can now answer my own question. Yes, they are that great. However, there are Non-Cuban Cigars that are also great... just not as many.


you know waht comes to mind, the padrons they are super good smokes no matter what and I have never had a bad one if you gave me a choice between the forbidden fruit el and a 40th anniversary id go with the 40th anniversary.


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## icehog3 (Feb 20, 2005)

hova45 said:


> you know waht comes to mind, the padrons they are super good smokes no matter what and I have never had a bad one if you gave me a choice between the forbidden fruit el and a 40th anniversary id go with the 40th anniversary.


And I would trade my 40th Anniversary for 2 RyJ Escudos.


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## moki (Jan 12, 2004)

icehog3 said:


> And I would trade my 40th Anniversary for 2 RyJ Escudos.


Young tobacco, overpriced! 

But seriously, if anyone has a brand or vitola they like, that's what it's all about... enjoy it. It's the generalizations that I find non-useful.


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## RETSF (Dec 7, 2006)

Just my :2, looking at a number of cigar boxes and lables they say Cuban Seed; Its my understanding that the Cuban Cigar ruled the cigar world up until Castro took power and a good part of the Cuban tobacco seed went to other countries. Although its derived from Cuban seed the same seed planted in Nic, Dom Republic ect..... tasts diffrent. The change in the soil make-up, weather conditions, growing period, sun vs shade grown, the curing process ect.... all alter the taste of the tobacco. The individual will determine which tastes the best or worst because of individual likes and dislikes, pallet and other personal factors. Basically there is a diff between beef raised on the open range compared to grain fed beef. Those of you who have hunted may have noticed that game meat tasted diffrent of one state to the next or due to the type of forage the animal sustained itself on. Good example would be caribou in northern Alaska have a stronger flavor than the same caribou that grazed in the southern part of the State. It dosent make it bad....its just different - its the same way with cigar tobacco.


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## Harpo (Oct 11, 2007)

moki said:


> That's silly. This is about wine, but it really applies to anything taste-related, such as cigars...
> 
> *The Subjectivity of Taste*
> 
> ...


I've found an interesting discussion on the merits and pitfalls of blind tasting wine, but you can easily substitute cigars into the argument. It takes into account a wider understanding of what you're drinking, an appreciation of subtlety, the potential a wine has with age and not just the flavour "on the day": Understanding A Wine.

:2


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## RETSF (Dec 7, 2006)

Harpo said:


> I've found an interesting discussion on the merits and pitfalls of blind tasting wine, but you can easily substitute cigars into the argument. It takes into account a wider understanding of what you're drinking, an appreciation of subtlety, the potential a wine has with age and not just the flavour "on the day": Understanding A Wine.
> 
> :2


Absolutly correct, the only diff between between the rating a wine or a cigar is that one is smoked and the other is drank. Appearence, construction (cigar only), Aroma, Taste ect..... Tasting is subjective to each individual, I might find the taste/aroma of a strong full bodied cigar such as a Indian Head Maduro - where someone else who likes the same type of cigar may find the taste and aroma of a maduro cigar grown/rolled in a different region more appealing. Even when rating the same cigar, my rating of a cigar say in the aroma/taste category may not be the exact same as another individual rating the same cigar.


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