# The Search for Twang



## sirxlaughs

Recently, a discussion about a flavor commonly referred to as "twang" came up. Being the curious fellow that I am, I wanted to know what everyone thought "twang" was. What it tastes like, what's unique about it, etc. Personally, I think it means different things to different people, which (to me) makes it mean nothing. "Twang", from my current understanding, is often used to describe a taste that is supposed to be unique to *all* Cuban cigars. I don't see how this is possible unless there is a clear, universally accepted definition to "twang." 
So, the idea of blind tastings came up. If the taste is truly unique, it should be identifiable. Not only should it be identifiable, more than one person should be able to do it. 
Enter the idea for this "search for twang." I've PM'd a few members offering an invitation to participate in this blind search using their tastebuds only (to the best of their ability). I'm curious to see the results of such a group tasting. Things like, will all the cigars taste the same to everyone? Will everyone find the "twang"? Will the "twang" be found only in the Cuban cigars? So on and so forth.
I'd like to get 3 people to participate. I wish I could do more, but I'm neither rich in money nor in cigars (relatively, of course). This is the list so far:

1. Breakaway500
2. Dan-Hur
3. tobacmon

Should anyone else be interested, shoot me a message and I'll send you the details so far.


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## gjcab09

I like the elusive, yet ever-addictive poon-twang! :tease::biggrin:


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## asmartbull

gjcab09 said:


> I like the elusive, yet ever-addictive poon-twang! :tease::biggrin:


It was only a matter of time.....:tea:


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## gjcab09

asmartbull said:


> It was only a matter of time.....:tea:


The thing is...there's no embargo on it either!


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## The Waco Kid

gjcab09 said:


> The thing is...there's no embargo on it either!


There is around here after I smoke a cigar.


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## sirxlaughs

lol... Some time ago, one of the descriptions I read about twang was "twat + poon tang". It led to a lot of Cuban cigar orders. :lol:


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## Cypress

I think this belongs in the Habano's section.


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## sirxlaughs

Cypress said:


> I think this belongs in the Habano's section.


If that's the case, then please move the thread but this will involve all cigars, not just Cubans. There have been similar tastings done in the past and they were posted in General.


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## Cypress

sirxlaughs said:


> If that's the case, then please move the thread but this will involve all cigars, not just Cubans. There have been similar tastings done in the past and they were posted in General.


Let me check with the rest of the Mods then. It will remain open.


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## sirxlaughs

Cypress said:


> Let me check with the rest of the Mods then. It will remain open.


Thanks.


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## Breakaway500

I am honored and excited to take part in the search for the truth in Twang. Please please please don't send me any nasty-ass cigars.


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## Perfecto Dave

gjcab09 said:


> I like the elusive, yet ever-addictive poon-twang! :tease::biggrin:


*Ya beat me too it..........but I spelled mine different!!:cowboyic9:*



> there's no embargo on it either!


*Some states it's legal to purchase...others is a no-no.*


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## gjcab09

Perfecto Dave said:


> *Ya beat me too it..........but I spelled mine different!!:cowboyic9:*


...a twang by any other name...:wink::wink::wink:


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## sirxlaughs

I need at least one more volunteer. Anyone?


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## Dan-Hur

sirxlaughs said:


> I need at least one more volunteer. Anyone?


Any requirements? 'Cause I'm up for anything. If you want someone with CC experience, though, I'm not your man.


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## sirxlaughs

Dan-Hur said:


> Any requirements? 'Cause I'm up for anything. If you want someone with CC experience, though, I'm not your man.


Actually, it might be interesting to have someone without any CC experience in the group. PM sent.


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## Shaz

This is going to be interesting. 
Thread subscribed.


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## smelvis

Bruno
I am almost positive I could now know the difference. I don't know or have an opinion about the twang. I know it in many as a grassy, barnyard start that usually goes away and turns out to be a great smoke like the BBF's

Good luck with this!


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## sirxlaughs

Shaz said:


> This is going to be interesting.
> Thread subscribed.


I'm hoping it will be. I'm a believer that a specific country doesn't really have a specific taste. However, due to rote memorization, I think that one can become familiar with a taste profile (as almost anything). For example, many times when people smoke an unfamiliar cigar they will most likely say, "This tastes like Cigar A, therefore it must be from Cigar A's country." I've seldom heard, "This cigar tastes like Country B, just like every other cigar from said Country." 
In other blind tastings, I've seen very experienced smokers get 8/10 correct. The more interesting part is the ratings. Usually a non-cuban cigar will place highest or second highest in these tastings. Of course, this isn't always the case, but, seemingly, the trend. 
Anyway, let me stop myself before on start ranting on. It all basically sums up to, "Cigars are cigars. Smoke what you like."


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## Mante

Definately an interesting one to watch. Thanks Bruno & all the testers.:madgrin:


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## sirxlaughs

smelvis said:


> Bruno
> I am almost positive I could now know the difference. I don't know or have an opinion about the twang. I know it in many as a grassy, barnyard start that usually goes away and turns out to be a great smoke like the BBF's
> 
> Good luck with this!


Thanks! Yes, I'm familiar with the grassy taste of some Cubans also. I just don't think it's pervasive in all of them. Would you like to participate?


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## smelvis

sirxlaughs said:


> Thanks! Yes, I'm familiar with the grassy taste of some Cubans also. I just don't think it's pervasive in all of them. Would you like to participate?


Naw Thanks though, I agree the grassy taste is not in all that I have smoked so I am curious when you get this figured out.


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## Dan-Hur

sirxlaughs said:


> Actually, it might be interesting to have someone without any CC experience in the group. PM sent.


Replied.


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## tobacmon

Replied..


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## sirxlaughs

Looks like I've got three participants. Now, I've got some work ahead of me prepping everyone's package. Stay tuned. More to come.


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## Magnate

I am sure I could pick out unbanded cubans vs unbanded NC's just on sight with about 90% or better accuracy... Something about the wrinkles on the wrappers. 

I bet I could do even better smoking them. 

It doesn't mean Cuban tobacco is the best, that's up to each person to decide... but there is something different about cubans that you can't find elsewhere.


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## sirxlaughs

Magnate said:


> I am sure I could pick out unbanded cubans vs unbanded NC's just on sight with about 90% or better accuracy... Something about the wrinkles on the wrappers.
> 
> I bet I could do even better smoking them.
> 
> It doesn't mean Cuban tobacco is the best, that's up to each person to decide... but there is something different about cubans that you can't find elsewhere.


The visual stuff aside, this is about taste. If I were to make this truly a "double blind" test, I'd have to make sure that the participants couldn't actually look at the cigars. But, we don't live in a perfect world. There is something about a lot of cigars that you can't find anywhere else. That's the great thing about cigars. If they all tasted the same (even the ones from the same country), what would be the point to all the variety? I already have my own opinions about rote memorization of marcas and blends vs the "taste of a country."
Also, this blind experiment is something that everyone can try themselves with their friends. My brother and I used to do it. It's quite interesting and fun.
For example, my brother gave me a JFR cigar once. I was able to correctly identify it as Nicaraguan, but not b/c I could taste a Nicaraguan "twang" in it. It tasted very similar to some of Pepin's blends. So, I associated Pepin with Nicaragua. My mind didn't automatically go to Nicaragua. If I had never smoked a Pepin, I would've been completely stumped. The cigar didn't taste like a JdN or Padron. It tasted very specifically like a Pepin blend.


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## Dan-Hur

This is gonna be pretty exciting. I'm guessing the visual way to identify a CC would be the triple cap, but there are NCs that are also triple capped. The 601s and the G.A.R.s have them, I think.


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## Magnate

sirxlaughs said:


> The visual stuff aside, this is about taste. If I were to make this truly a "double blind" test, I'd have to make sure that the participants couldn't actually look at the cigars. But, we don't live in a perfect world. There is something about a lot of cigars that you can't find anywhere else. That's the great thing about cigars. If they all tasted the same (even the ones from the same country), what would be the point to all the variety? I already have my own opinions about rote memorization of marcas and blends vs the "taste of a country."
> Also, this blind experiment is something that everyone can try themselves with their friends. My brother and I used to do it. It's quite interesting and fun.
> For example, my brother gave me a JFR cigar once. I was able to correctly identify it as Nicaraguan, but not b/c I could taste a Nicaraguan "twang" in it. It tasted very similar to some of Pepin's blends. So, I associated Pepin with Nicaragua. My mind didn't automatically go to Nicaragua. If I had never smoked a Pepin, I would've been completely stumped. The cigar didn't taste like a JdN or Padron. It tasted very specifically like a Pepin blend.


I don't disagree that JdN and Padron are different, etc.

But, with Cuban cigars, there's a flavor that they almost all have, regardless of marca, that non cubans don't have. Some have it stronger than others, but it's pretty much always there.

And I didn't mean to rain on the fun... I was just throwing in my hypothesis... I love blind taste testing things. The missus and I do it with different things a couple times a year.


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## sirxlaughs

Magnate said:


> I don't disagree that JdN and Padron are different, etc.
> 
> But, with Cuban cigars, there's a flavor that they almost all have, regardless of marca, that non cubans don't have. Some have it stronger than others, but it's pretty much always there.
> 
> And I didn't mean to rain on the fun... I was just throwing in my hypothesis... I love blind taste testing things. The missus and I do it with different things a couple times a year.


Long rant warning. 
No raining. We're all just sharing and discussing our ideas. With such a variety of people, of course they will differ. When I express mine, I always try to explain properly and somewhat logically how I came to my conclusions. 
The only thing we seem to disagree on is that there is a Cuban taste that non-Cuban cigars can't seem to get. I agree that it is nearly impossible to duplicate a cigar's taste (regardless of region - ie: Pepin will probably not be able to imitate an OpusX using his own tobacco). It wouldn't be any fun if all cigars tasted the same anyway. With all the varying palates, it's nice to have options. Like an old candy bar commercial used to say, "Sometimes you feel like a nut, sometimes you don't." haha
I also agree that there is a common taste across many Cuban cigars, but I've been able to find subtleties of that taste in cigars of other regions. When I thought about it, I thought of Cuba's size relative to how many cigars they put out. Wouldn't it be natural to think that many of the brands use the same tobacco? Not necessarily the same blends, but many of them must get some of their tobacco from the same farms. Then I was curious how big Nicaragua was (without neighboring territories). They are not so different in size. Why is it that no one has found a specific Nicaraguan taste? Is the tobacco in Nicaragua that varied? Do they use that many different strains? I know Pepin recently started using the small amount of Pelo d'Oro he grew. But if the taste is country based, why isn't there a Nicaraguan taste? Or a Dominican taste? So on and so forth. Does a Davidoff taste like a Fuente? Does a Partagas taste like a Vegas Robaina? 
Anyway, it'll always be one of those endless debates. With differing palates and all the variables that can influence taste (outside of the taste buds and tobacco), I don't think there will ever be a definitive answer.
I just don't like to see the "air of superiority" some people have. The "if you can't taste it, blah blah" kind of comments. I'm more of the "Just smoke what tastes good to you" type. If some guy came up to me and told me he likes Acids, I'd initially look at him like . But if after trying a different selection of cigars, if he told me he still liked Acids over them, who am I to say that there's something wrong with that? Do I chalk it up to this person's inability to taste a "real" cigar? 
And I'm gonna stop talking now. haha. I can type until my fingers bleed, but people will have their opinions and I will have mine. All I want to do with this blind tasting is have a little fun, and hand out some good cigars from varying regions to some fellow BsOTL. :dude:


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## sirxlaughs

Dan-Hur said:


> This is gonna be pretty exciting. I'm guessing the visual way to identify a CC would be the triple cap, but there are NCs that are also triple capped. The 601s and the G.A.R.s have them, I think.


There used to be many visual cues that a trained eye could use to identify a Cuban cigar from a counterfeit. The thing about that is that the lines have blurred in recent years. Premium non-Cuban cigars have been constantly upping the ante in terms of quality and construction. Either way, for the purposes of this tasting, I'd prefer if everyone resisted analyzing the appearance of the cigars and focused solely on the smoke.


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## tobacmon

With the post about identifying by the look of the wrapper--Is that aged or just printed models? I am by no way a cc expert, long way from it (dreams maybe) but had no idea you could identify just from the wrapper. I know about the triple cap but I thought I read there are Nics now coming out that are triple capped. This will be interesting .


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## sirxlaughs

tobacmon said:


> With the post about identifying by the look of the wrapper--Is that aged or just printed models? I am by no way a cc expert, long way from it (dreams maybe) but had no idea you could identify just from the wrapper. I know about the triple cap but I thought I read there are Nics now coming out that are triple capped. This will be interesting .


It used to be true that you could identify from appearance. A true, double blind test would be done in a way that wouldn't allow the cigar to be seen. Taste is affected by many factors other than the sensors on your tongue. But as a said earlier, the appearance stuff has blurred in recent years. Over the last decade, more and more top quality NC cigars have shown equal or superior construction to many CCs. When you factor in consistency, there are quite a few NC cigar brands that have hopped in the lead.

edit: About the triple caps - you will receive the cigars already cut. I'm waiting for the blank cigar bands to arrive. After that, I'm going to label, clip, pack, and ship. I'll have more info, such as cigar quantity, by the end of the week.


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## sirxlaughs

Small update for everyone:

The blank cigar bands I ordered came in. I had predicted that I would need boxes bigger than the typical VCR tape-sized usps, so those should be arriving soon. The three participants will (most likely) have 12 cigars to (hopefully) enjoy and review.


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## dirletra

I'm reallly looking forward to this.


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## Breakaway500

I promise not to nuke,disect,or visually analyze any of my test cee-gars..


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## Dan-Hur

Out of curiosity, what are some characteristics considered common in NC tobacco? Cuban tobacco is supposed to have a "twang," but what flavor characteristics should I look for in Honduran, Nicaraguan or Dominican tobacco?


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## sirxlaughs

Dan-Hur said:


> Out of curiosity, what are some characteristics considered common in NC tobacco? Cuban tobacco is supposed to have a "twang," but what flavor characteristics should I look for in Honduran, Nicaraguan or Dominican tobacco?


That's one of the things to be determined by this test. If taste is actually identified by country, or by rote memorization of specific marcas that we identify with certain countries.:biggrin:
No worries, though. This is all in good fun. In the end, the most important thing I hope you get out of this is that you got to enjoy some good smokes. :tu


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## tobacmon

Looks like I'll be smoking the cigars being sent in the early AM when my taste buds are at it's best. This should be pretty good and look forward to hopefully not making an arsh out of me self--------


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## tobacmon

_*On a side note:*_ I was wondering if the Twang that we are calling it, was something that is in the cc because of the fertile soil, the years of experience planters, trimming, curing and the like from what I understand can only be found in the ISOM.

I'm thinking the same as above can be found also in the Dominican Republic and Nicaragua? I'm getting a headache--


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## Breakaway500

I am sure soil,climate and handling all have a part in making the characteristics of a cigar unique.


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## bouncintiga

well truth is, if people really knew how to replicate that flavor, then we'd have more CC tasting cigars from NC companies. Some have been very close though and I've had a cigar or two where i said to myself, DAMN this kinda reminds me of a cc. So for now we point to things we think affect it, soil, climate, etc.


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## sirxlaughs

tobacmon said:


> _*On a side note:*_ I was wondering if the Twang that we are calling it, was something that is in the cc because of the fertile soil, the years of experience planters, trimming, curing and the like from what I understand can only be found in the ISOM.
> 
> I'm thinking the same as above can be found also in the Dominican Republic and Nicaragua? I'm getting a headache--


Personally, I feel that there are too many factors that affect taste. The same cigar can taste different from person to person. This is why I tend to dislike blanket statements like, "If you can't taste it, then blah blah blah" or "all of these are better than all of those." That may have been true a few decades ago, but I don't think that Cuban cigars are the definitive end-all-be-all of the cigar world anymore. If anything, I think they are more limited by making only puros. Some of the most popular cigars today are blends. Pepin Garcia, for example, has been using Connecticut broadleaf wrappers on many of the cigars he produces with excellent results. More recently, he blended a cigar for Nestor Miranda with a Dominican wrapper.

http://blog.winemag.com/editors/2008/02/25/blind-tasting-napa-cabernet-er-syrah/


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## tobacmon

I did notice the cohiba esplendidos has a very sweet taste and that I'm thinking can only be done with a little sugar water while doing the cap. Not positive but think so.

If we only knew the secret we all would be $$$$$$


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## bouncintiga

tobacmon said:


> I did notice the cohiba esplendidos has a very sweet taste and that I'm thinking can only be done with a little sugar water while doing the cap. Not positive but think so.
> 
> If we only knew the secret we all would be $$$$$$


Funny you should mention that, I know the liga privada 9 flying pigs, the wrappers I believe are cured in water with some tabasco sauce. This was told to me by a friend who works in a cigar shop and the drew estate rep told him.


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## sirxlaughs

Another small update. Cigars have been selected and labeled. I left them in they're original boxes until I'm ready to pack everything and ship them out to you guys.


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## tobacmon

Thanks for the update Bruno--Flying Pigs and Tabasco sauce---


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## Mante

Here we go....... :woohoo:opcorn:


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## asmartbull

Tashaz said:


> Here we go....... :woohoo:opcorn:


welcome back buddy


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## dirletra

perhaps, if all the smokes are together while shipped, the smell of the CCs will rub off on the others, making it harder to smell the difference?... maybe.


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## sirxlaughs

dirletra said:


> perhaps, if all the smokes are together while shipped, the smell of the CCs will rub off on the others, making it harder to smell the difference?... maybe.


No. But this isn't about smell either. This is about taste. If it would make everyone feel better, I can package them all individually.


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## tobacmon

sirxlaughs said:


> No. But this isn't about smell either. This is about taste. *If it would make everyone feel better, I can package them all individually*.


I don't think this would be necessary Bruno. Anyway you wish to ship will in no doubt be the correct way I'm sure.


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## Habanolover

Where we at with this? 

I love watching these go down and am anxiously looking forward to this one.


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## LosingSleep

Habanolover said:


> Where we at with this?
> 
> I love watching these go down and am anxiously looking forward to this one.


I am also.

Can we also get the participants cigar smoking history? Maybe years smoking, regions familiar with, favorites and amount?


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## sirxlaughs

Habanolover said:


> Where we at with this?
> 
> I love watching these go down and am anxiously looking forward to this one.


I'm almost ready to ship out the cigars. Last week was mine and my mother's birthday so it was busier than usual. I don't want to prep them until I have everything ready to box and send. I've picked out, what I think is, a nice, varied selection. Whatever the results are, I hope the cigars are enjoyed. If all goes according to schedule, everything will ship out this week.


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## sirxlaughs

LosingSleep said:


> I am also.
> 
> Can we also get the participants cigar smoking history? Maybe years smoking, regions familiar with, favorites and amount?


You're still welcome to participate if you'd like.


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## Habanolover

sirxlaughs said:


> I'm almost ready to ship out the cigars. Last week was mine and my mother's birthday so it was busier than usual. I don't want to prep them until I have everything ready to box and send. I've picked out, what I think is, a nice, varied selection. Whatever the results are, I hope the cigars are enjoyed. If all goes according to schedule, everything will ship out this week.


Sounds good Bruno. Wasn't trying to rush you or anything. Like I said, these things just really interest me. :tu


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## sirxlaughs

Habanolover said:


> Sounds good Bruno. Wasn't trying to rush you or anything. Like I said, these things just really interest me. :tu


Understood. 
I also want to try and keep people updated as this goes along. These things interest me too.


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## LosingSleep

sirxlaughs said:


> You're still welcome to participate if you'd like.


I'm not available but thanks.


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## sirxlaughs

Hello again, everyone. The vacuum bags I ordered arrived today. Hopefully, I can get everything together and out the door tomorrow. Unless I make any last minute additions/subtractions, each participant will be receiving 15 cigars each. Tall order, I know but as I mentioned before, I would like the participants to (hopefully) just enjoy (what I think) is a nice variety of smokes from all over. Also, since reviewing 15 cigars is no simple task, I'd like to once again thank Mark, Daniel and Paul for doing this. I'll post the "rules" or "guidelines" or whatever you want to call them soon. If anyone has ever followed one of Moki's tastings, they will basically be just like that.


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## Breakaway500

Rules? Rules? We don't need no stinking rules! :wink:


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## sirxlaughs

Breakaway500 said:


> Rules? Rules? We don't need no stinking rules! :wink:


You know what I mean. Just some guidelines to keep the review format consistent. :biggrin1:


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## Scardinoz

This should be infinitely fascinating.


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## Johnny Rock

sirxlaughs said:


> You're still welcome to participate if you'd like.


I would like to particapate if is not too late.

I have been known to enjoy some Twang. Let me know, addy is in the profile. Thanks.


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## Rodeo

This could be epic


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## swingerofbirches

Thread subscribed!


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## cigar loco

opcorn:


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## sirxlaughs

Johnny Rock said:


> I would like to particapate if is not too late.
> 
> I have been known to enjoy some Twang. Let me know, addy is in the profile. Thanks.


PM sent.


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## eyesack

This sounds freakin awesome! Can't wait to see some reviews!  Bruno, you are about to make history haha.


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## tobacmon

Thanks for the update Bruno---Curious of how our comparisons will be amongst the reviewers? *Question:* Are you going to have the same cigars (say #1) be the same cigar for every reviewer and if we all do them at the same time we can get each of our reviews, opinions, etc. done at the same time? Just mentioning so it will be easier to track everyone involved reviews and thoughts sequenced as we move along.

This should be a great thread to watch as this moves along. So many cigars to little time---Thanks again for doing this.....ainkiller:

*The search for TWANG!*


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## sirxlaughs

Yes, the cigars will be the same and in the same order for everyone.

edit: Also, it looks like we have a forth participant. I'll post more tonight. I suppose now that the boxes have gone out, it's a good a time as any to post the guidelines and such. I'll also send everyone the DC numbers when I get home.


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## Dan-Hur

Soooo looking forward to this. Gonna have to make some room in the humidor.


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## Breakaway500

Just to whet my appetite,I had a Bolivar RC tonite...fresh off the ..plane...with about two weeks to get over any jet lag...in the gun safe/humidor. 

What a great cigar. I def could pick one of these out of a barrel of...imposters... If these get better with age...hell they are so good now I might not be able to let them...age.


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## sirxlaughs

9405 5036 9930 0365 0535 59
9405 5036 9930 0365 0535 35
9405 5036 9930 0365 0535 42
9405 5036 9930 0365 0535 28

I forget whose is whose, but they should all arrive at roughly the same time. Here are the guidelines I've asked (borrowed straight from Moki):



> What you're reviewing is the taste of the cigar. I have clipped the caps off of the cigars to mitigate the empirical data that can be gleaned from the cigar, but please do not examine the wrapper, vitola, etc. I realize the temptation is great, but just light the cigar up and smoke it.
> 
> To make the reviews interesting, I have some mandatory information I'd like each reviewer to submit. The goal isn't to embarrass anyone, but rather to see if we can establish any trends in the cigars that are reviewed. We can't do that without meaningfully standardized data.
> 
> To that end, each review that is submitted to me via PM must contain the following:
> 
> Cigar #: the number of the cigar you smoked
> 
> Tasting notes: be as long or as short as you like, describing what you tasted when you smoked the cigar
> 
> Origin: what country you think the tobacco in the cigar is principally from
> 
> Age: how old (in years) you think the cigar is
> 
> Price: pick one of the following price-points: budget, everyday, premium, super-premium
> 
> Rating: 1-10, 10 being the best... how good was this cigar overall?
> 
> Marca: a guess at exactly what cigar line (eg: Cohiba, Partagas, etc.) you think you smoked
> 
> ...that's it. While I realize that some of these categories may be complete shots in the dark, at least please take a stab at them.


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## tobacmon

sirxlaughs said:


> 9405 5036 9930 0365 0535 59
> 9405 5036 9930 0365 0535 35
> 9405 5036 9930 0365 0535 42
> 9405 5036 9930 0365 0535 28
> 
> I forget whose is whose, but they should all arrive at roughly the same time. Here are the guidelines I've asked (borrowed straight from Moki):


Look forward to spending my mornings reviewing this line-up. Thanks again Bruno for doing this. I just hope I don't embarrass myself--- :dunno::smoke:oke:


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## Dan-Hur

tobacmon said:


> Look forward to spending my mornings reviewing this line-up. Thanks again Bruno for doing this. I just hope I don't embarrass myself--- :dunno::smoke:oke:


Same here.


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## Shaz

The one thing I've seen on other BTTs, and it looks like you're on top of this Bruno, is where the reviews are posted before all are in. So, some of the reviewers get see the reviews from others before posting, thus tainting their reviews. 
It looks to me like the reviews will go in via pm to Bruno, and once they are all in, only then would they be posted.
This should be fun.
Thanks Bruno, for your generosity and giving us all something to look forward to.


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## sirxlaughs

Shaz said:


> The one thing I've seen on other BTTs, and it looks like you're on top of this Bruno, is where the reviews are posted before all are in. So, some of the reviewers get see the reviews from others before posting, thus tainting their reviews.
> It looks to me like the reviews will go in via pm to Bruno, and once they are all in, only then would they be posted.
> This should be fun.
> Thanks Bruno, for your generosity and giving us all something to look forward to.


You got it. This is why I've requested that the reviews be sent to me first. Once everyone submits a review for a particular cigar, I'll post the results.


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## sirxlaughs

tobacmon said:


> Look forward to spending my mornings reviewing this line-up. Thanks again Bruno for doing this. I just hope I don't embarrass myself--- :dunno::smoke:oke:


There won't be anything to be embarrassed about. All we're looking for is honest opinions. :smoke2:


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## Johnny Rock

15 cigars to review will be a good challange. Should take up most of my spare time for a couple of weeks.

It will be difficult to not form pre-opinions based on the look and feel of the cigars, but hopefully we will be able to give honest reviews just on the taste...and the Twang, or lack there of.

Looking forward to the test!! :ss


----------



## tobacmon

Looks like my reviews will start tomorrow in the early AM, providing my PO man will be here today!


----------



## Dan-Hur

tobacmon said:


> Looks like my reviews will start tomorrow in the early AM, providing my PO man will be here today!


I think I'll be getting mine today. According to the USPS website, it was processed in a Lorain facility and is out for delivery today.


----------



## Breakaway500

My package should be here today as well.It shows confirmation at the PO this morning. Hmm...what to have after lunch..seeing as the mail does not come till 3:00pm usually. Don't want to spoil my pallate..


----------



## Dan-Hur

Just opened mine a few minutes ago and threw them into the humidor. Though I probably wouldn't be able to determine the origin of a cigar just by looking at it, I'll still refrain from doing so. Although, it really is very tempting not to give them the usual once over.


----------



## bouncintiga

nice! can't wait for the reviews and results to start pouring in. good luck fellas!


----------



## sirxlaughs

Great to hear they're about to reach you guys. Not to put a hamper on things or make the suspense worse, but it might be a good idea to let the cigars acclimate a bit in your own humidors. I vacuum packed (w/o crushing) the cigars to help eliminate as much of the "travel lag" as possible, but you never know. 
That being said - I can't wait for the reviews to start. Again, I thank all of you for taking the time to do this and hope that you enjoy the selection. :cb


----------



## Breakaway500

Let the whang flow! I admit to giving them all a good sniff,and honestly,they all smell delicious!










#3 smells familiar. #5 is intriguing... I'm drooling....


----------



## bouncintiga

WOW THAT'S A LOT OF CIGARS. 

sorry for caps but that's what i read/said out loud LOL. 

have fun reviewing guys!


----------



## Breakaway500

Well...it's a tough job..but someone has to do it...:wink:


----------



## Johnny Rock

Mine arrived today also, they are resting in a seperate humidor until tomorrow when the immolation will begin. 

BTW, they do look the same as Marks, only mine were cut better...LOL.

The bonus round one looks totally, well never mind...


----------



## tobacmon

Mine got here also and have them in a humi all by themselves line up 1-15. Look forward to digging in and seeing where the twang takes me. Thanks Bruno for having this review for us all.They "all" do look tasty.


----------



## Breakaway500

Bruno,are we reviewers supposed to send our reviews to you in a PM for release so as not to prejudice the others?


----------



## sirxlaughs

Breakaway500 said:


> Bruno,are we reviewers supposed to send our reviews to you in a PM for release so as not to prejudice the others?


Yes, please. Once all the reviews for a particular cigar are in, I will post them all at once. Thanks!


----------



## Breakaway500

10-4. I am going to give #1 a rip before lunch.


----------



## Johnny Rock

Just finished mine and the review, I hope they are all this good. :ss


----------



## tobacmon

Finished #1 and will PM you tomorrow after I move from paper to the PC. 

Starting on Saturday morning with #2 after they have acclimated a few days from their travel. 

Bruno, if its OK to do so I can take some pictures as I progress threw the smokes and send the review through a PM as you requested.


----------



## sirxlaughs

tobacmon said:


> Finished #1 and will PM you tomorrow after I move from paper to the PC.
> 
> Starting on Saturday morning with #2 after they have acclimated a few days from their travel.
> 
> Bruno, if its OK to do so I can take some pictures as I progress threw the smokes and send the review through a PM as you requested.


It's totally ok. I only ask that you use the format I posted earlier so that the reviews are all consistent.


----------



## tobacmon

sirxlaughs said:


> It's totally ok. I only ask that you use the format I posted earlier so that the reviews are all consistent.


Got it ----- not a problem...Thx.


----------



## Dan-Hur

Just sent in my second review. I won't say anything until Bruno posts the reviews, but I am enjoying this.

Bruno, let me know if my reviews have been too general.


----------



## Breakaway500

What's not to enjoy..free primo cigars!


----------



## sirxlaughs

Dan-Hur said:


> Just sent in my second review. I won't say anything until Bruno posts the reviews, but I am enjoying this.
> 
> Bruno, let me know if my reviews have been too general.


Your reviews have been great so far. How general, detailed, etc you are is up to you. :thumb:


----------



## Scardinoz

As long as the review is not 250 word count essay comprised entirely of, "This cigar was good. It was a good cigar. It reminded me of one other cigar I had that was good. I dare say it was really good. I think 'extremely good' would be an exaggeration. I liked this cigar", I'm happy.

Bonus points if you mention flavor or construction.


----------



## Arnie

Gotta sign up for this thread, this will be great reading!


----------



## Johnny Rock

# 2 on the nubber at the moment, I'll have my review in about a half hour or so. So far Bruno has me spoiled, I hope it doesn't go too far downhill frome here. :ss 

This could be a front loaded trick (or treat) for Halloween I suppose, but so far this is the type of test I will take on any time..

btw Bruno, what's the odds of you sending me another 15 just to make sure I got them right?? LOL


----------



## sirxlaughs

Johnny Rock said:


> # 2 on the nubber at the moment, I'll have my review in about a half hour or so. So far Bruno has me spoiled, I hope it doesn't go too far downhill frome here. :ss
> 
> This could be a front loaded trick (or treat) for Halloween I suppose, but so far this is the type of test I will take on any time..
> 
> btw Bruno, what's the odds of you sending me another 15 just to make sure I got them right?? LOL


LoL.... Opinions can't be right or wrong. Besides, that's what the results are for. :cb :biggrin:

Also, I like how Mark just smoked a "Bruno #2." LoL :lol:


----------



## Johnny Rock

Getting ready to submit review #3.

You are a sly testing headmaster...I don't want to say too much, but I don't think anyone would have expected this...:ss


----------



## Dan-Hur

Johnny Rock said:


> Getting ready to submit review #3.
> 
> You are a sly testing headmaster...I don't want to say too much, but I don't think anyone would have expected this...:ss


Sent mine in earlier today. It's really hard not talking about it, but I'll hold off until the reviews are posted.


----------



## Breakaway500

Soo..which one is your favorite so far?Don't have to elaborate on why. I doubt that is breaking the rules. Bruno already know from our reviews. He's probably having as much fun doing this as us!


----------



## sirxlaughs

I'm sure it will be tempting to share notes, but please resist doing so for the time being. As soon as all reviews are in for each cigar, I promise I'll post them immediately. Then, we can have a big discussion about it since I'll have my own feedback to give about each cigar as well.


----------



## tobacmon

PM SENT #1


----------



## tobacmon

PM Sent #2


----------



## Mante

Can I start taking guesses since I'm not a tester? LMAO. J/K Bruno. How long can the testers stay quiet I wonder? Fun indeed! :clap2:


----------



## sirxlaughs

Awesome! Nice pic. With that, I now have all the reviews for cigar #1. Before the big give-away, I'd like to tell a little as to why I chose this particular cigar to be first. While the rest were numbered randomly, this particular cigar has become one of my favorites. Originally, it couldn't hold a candle to almost anything in my collection. I found it earthy, bitter, and harsh at times. There was very little sweetness to it, but I told myself to wait, that maybe the bitter harshness was simply that tannic sign of aging potential. It seemed to pay off this year. The last two I had were utterly pleasant. No harshness or bitterness. Just a melody of sweet cedar, smooth and creamy smoke, and some tart undertones. It's surprising that only one reviewer seemed to match my experience with it. Two reviewers noticed a similar taste profile and even guessed the same brand. Oddly enough, though, from different origins. So, the reason why I chose this cigar to be #1 was to possibly set the bar high. The standard, if you will, by which the others may or may not measure up to. Without further ado, the reviews are in the following post along with the big reveal.


----------



## sirxlaughs

Cigar #1

*Reviewer: Mark (Breakaway500)*

Tasting Notes: Churchill sized,medium brown wrappper,veiny.Prelight draw was tight,but manageable.First 30 minutes were woodsy,a hint of leather,which dissappeared quickly.Even burn,low smoke quantity.Relight at 1/2 way..my pace was off the cigars.Same wood,earth flavors..mild to medium strength.Not a complex flavor profile.Another relight at the 2/3 point..still a tighter draw than I prefer.Smoked down to the nub with no build of strength,and no bitterness.Mild aftertaste.
Total smoking time just under two hrs. Paired with a non sweetened cappuchino.Medium nicotine buzz,pleasant.

Origin: non-Cuban, possibly Dominican

Age: young

Price: Premium

Rating: 8/10

Marca: N/A

*Reviewer: Dan(Dan-Hur)*

Tasting Notes: First couple of puffs give me a sweet tobacco flavor intermingled with tea. As things moved along, I started to pick up a tart sweetness particularly in the back of the throat. I also picked up caramel and some slightly floral notes that I really enjoyed. The aroma reminded me of honey.

Origin: My guess, based on the cigar it reminded me of, is that it is Indonesian.

Age: This is a shot in the dark for me, but I guess that it's less than year old.

Price: Premium.

Rating: 9/10

Marca: My guess is that it's a Sultan Cigar. I reviewed one of these recently and this one really reminded me of it.

*Reviewer: John(Johnny Rock)*

Tasting notes: Grassiness, sweet, spicy vegetable type twangyness, building to medium to full flavored very relaxing classic ISOM stick.

Origin: Pinar Del Rio, Cuba
Age: 4 ~ 5 yrs

Price: Super-premium

Rating: 9

Marca: Cohiba Esplendido

*Reviewer: Paul(tobacmon)*

Tasting notes: be as long or as short as you like, describing what you tasted when you smoked the cigar:
Pre Draw clean and clear with taste of hay/grass and slight cedar. Toasted the foot with soft flame, burn sharp, draw was great, taste were from Hay/Grass at the pre draw to 1st. 3rd. being mixed with slight hints of pepper. 2nd. 3rd. burn going a bit array but trying to keep up with taste of cedar and oak. I do enjoy this smoke.

Origin: what country you think the tobacco in the cigar is principally from:
I will say this was not a cigar from the ISOM. This is always a hard one for me but I said I would try so my guess is a Dominican cigar.

Age: how old (in years) you think the cigar is:
Very hard to guess in years for me but if I was to guess maybe young -under a year or between 1 & 1 ½.

Price: pick one of the following price-points: budget, everyday, premium, super-premium: Premium

Rating: 1-10, 10 being the best... how good was this cigar overall? 6-7

Marca: a guess at exactly what cigar line (eg: Cohiba, Partagas, etc.) you think you smoked; Cohiba


----------



## tobacmon

Sweet working on #3's paperwork as I type---


----------



## sirxlaughs

Cigar #1 - H. Upmann Monarchs A/T Jun 03, Cuban










Congrats to Johnny Rock for getting the origin correct.

As of Cigar #1:

Mark - 0/1
Dan - 0/1
John - 1/1
Paul - 0/1


----------



## tobacmon

OK that was a good start---


----------



## sirxlaughs

Awesome. Looks like I'll be able to post a few reveals today. On to Cigar #2!


----------



## sirxlaughs

Cigar #2

*Reviewer: Mark (Breakaway500)*

Tasting Notes: Corona,medium brown,smooth wrapper.Creamy,earthy/grassy,light leather.Mild,perfect draw.Sweet on my tongue.Excelllent aroma,medium smoke quantity.A few touch ups,but not bothsome.Splendid aftertaste!

Origin: Cuban

Age: aged

Price: Premium

Rating: 9.25 Nice cigar!

Marca: N/A

*Reviewer: Dan (Dan-Hur)*

Tasting Notes: Pretty straightforward earth and cedar notes for most of the smoke. Also picked up some coffee and occasionally cocoa toward the end. For the first inch or so, the cigar was mild and bordering on bland, but it did pick up.

Origin: I'm thinking it might be Dominican. I've read that Dominican tobacco tends to be pretty mild and my own experience has generally matched that description.

Age: Maybe over a year. I can't really pinpoint the age of a cigar.

Price: Everyday, maybe around 2-4 bucks for this one.

Rating: 7/10. Seemed like a pretty average cigar to me. It wasn't too bad, but I wouldn't seek it out.

Marca: No idea. If I thought I recognized the cigar, I'd make a guess, but I don't think I've ever had this one before.

*Reviewer: John (Johnny Rock)*

Tasting notes: Grassiness, sweet spicy vegetable twang, building from mild to medium. Excellent burn.

Origin: Pinar Del Rio, Habano

Age: 4~5 yrs

Price: Super-premium

Rating: 8.5

Marca: Cohiba Corona Especial

*Reviewer: Paul (tobacmon)*

Tasting notes: be as long or as short as you like, describing what you tasted when you smoked the cigar: *Did the usual ritual in the pre-draw that is clear with a slight tug. Lit with my torch, and my first draw was slight leather and pepper. Not getting the cubanist taste from this cigar though the burn, clear draw and peppery flavors allure me in that direction. I like this smoke and will be interested to know what they are. I like this size and the first 1/3 are giving off taste of grass and pepper. The second 1/3 I started having problems with keeping it lit and the wrapper was unraveling a bit. Wrapper straighten out and some grass and oak were still around the last 1/3.*

Origin: what country you think the tobacco in the cigar is principally from: *Dominican would be my guess.*

Age: how old (in years) you think the cigar is: *1 year maybe.*

Price: pick one of the following price-points: budget, everyday, premium, super-premium: *Premium*

Rating: 1-10, 10 being the best... how good was this cigar overall? *7*

Marca: a guess at exactly what cigar line (eg: Cohiba, Partagas, etc.) you think you smoked; *This is again hard for me but will make a stab at it and say it is a Boliva line.*


----------



## sirxlaughs

Cigar #2 - Bolivar Gold Medal Sep 07, Cuban










Congrats to both Mark and John for getting the correct origin.

As of Cigar #2:

Mark - 1/2
Dan - 0/2
John - 2/2
Paul - 0/2


----------



## Dan-Hur

Wow, I was way off. If I ever get around to ordering CCs, that H. Upmann is first on my list. I really enjoyed that one but it didn't even cross my mind that it might be Cuban. The second one didn't really do it for me, but it wasn't bad. I'm a little shocked to find out that it was Cuban, too.


----------



## Breakaway500

My #1 was a bit tighter than I like..I could not get into a good pace with it.No excuses..just did not wow me. Funny,the H.Upmann Mags I recently bought have not really impressed me either. I'm on Bruno #4...and smiling!


----------



## asmartbull

Dan-Hur said:


> Wow, I was way off. If I ever get around to ordering CCs, that H. Upmann is first on my list. I really enjoyed that one but it didn't even cross my mind that it might be Cuban. The second one didn't really do it for me, but it wasn't bad. I'm a little shocked to find out that it was Cuban, too.


Dan
It looks like you are at a disadvantage on a "twang" test if you have not had many CC's....:hmm:


----------



## Dan-Hur

Damn double post. Yeah, my CC experience is quite limited, but I figured I'd try to look for something that made the cigar different from all the NCs I've had.


----------



## asmartbull

Breakaway500 said:


> My #1 was a bit tighter than I like..I could not get into a good pace with it.No excuses..just did not wow me. Funny,the H.Upmann Mags I recently bought have not really impressed me either. I'm on Bruno #4...and smiling!


That Monarch doesn't impress many... it really isn't like any other Upmann,,,and for the $$$$ they should be ashamed.
I did a review on these a month ago,,,and it was underwelming...


----------



## sirxlaughs

Dan-Hur said:


> Wow, I was way off. If I ever get around to ordering CCs, that H. Upmann is first on my list. I really enjoyed that one but it didn't even cross my mind that it might be Cuban. The second one didn't really do it for me, but it wasn't bad. I'm a little shocked to find out that it was Cuban, too.


My experience with both those cigars is similar to yours. The Gold Medal isn't a cigar I plan on repurchasing, and is certainly not the best I've experienced from Bolivar. The Monarchs, on the other hand, took a long time to come around. I had thought nothing could top my '03 Sir Winstons, but now they taste flat by comparison. It might be the tubes and the whole "slower aging" thing.



Breakaway500 said:


> My #1 was a bit tighter than I like..I could not get into a good pace with it.No excuses..just did not wow me. Funny,the H.Upmann Mags I recently bought have not really impressed me either. I'm on Bruno #4...and smiling!


It's unfortunate that consistency has been a constant issue for me with more than a few Cuban cigars. Your results for Cigar #2 blew me away. It made me jealous that I never had that experience with them. haha
I also had two boxes of Mag 46s (one left) from '05. They took a long time to come around too. When I first got them, they were damn near unsmokable for two years.


----------



## sirxlaughs

asmartbull said:


> Dan
> It looks like you are at a disadvantage on a "twang" test if you have not had many CC's....:hmm:


Technically, it shouldn't matter if "twang" is supposed to be unique to Cuban cigars, as has been claimed. He should be tasting something completely unique to them. Yet, the first cigar reminded him of a Sultan. Maybe Indonesian tobacco has some "twang" to it too? Don't worry so much about things like "dis/advantage". This is all about taste and opinion. Even John, who got the first two correctly as Cuban, tasted the same cigar (Cohiba). I've never tasted grassiness in an Upmann. This is why palates are personal and subjective. Give 4 people the same cigar, and get four different opinions, yes?


----------



## sirxlaughs

asmartbull said:


> That Monarch doesn't impress many... it really isn't like any other Upmann,,,and for the $$$$ they should be ashamed.
> I did a review on these a month ago,,,and it was underwelming...


I'm not sure who "many" are, but the Monarch and the Sir Winston are essentially the same cigar. The reviewers here seemed pretty impressed with two of them giving the cigar a 9/10. The Monarch requires more time than the Sir Winston. This has been my experience. My brother had a box of 01 Monarchs (untubed) that were incredible. If you go over to cigars-review.org, you'll see that the Monarchs and Sir Winston have the same average score. If you check Cigar Aficionado, you'll also see that the Sir Winston's highest score was a 93, while the Monarch's was a 92.


----------



## Breakaway500

I did notice a bit of twang on the Upmann right after the light,but it soon disappeared.I have had this same taste sensation with a few D.R. cigars,so that is what I guessed as origin. This is quite an eye opening exercise!


----------



## Breakaway500

Someone is anxiously awaiting something...


----------



## asmartbull

sirxlaughs said:


> I'm not sure who "many" are, but the Monarch and the Sir Winston are essentially the same cigar. The reviewers here seemed pretty impressed with two of them giving the cigar a 9/10. The Monarch requires more time than the Sir Winston. This has been my experience. My brother had a box of 01 Monarchs (untubed) that were incredible. If you go over to cigars-review.org, you'll see that the Monarchs and Sir Winston have the same average score. If you check Cigar Aficionado, you'll also see that the Sir Winston's highest score was a 93, while the Monarch's was a 92.


If you are relying on CA for scores, it is a sad day.
They are also the say folks that give FRESH Behike's the highest scores on the planet, and havle the Oliva's leading the pack of NC's. If you compare same yr Monarch's and Sir Winstonn's (02,05, 08) there not even close...I believe the monarch could be mistaken for D.R.
I guess to each his own,,,sorry for the hijack


----------



## sirxlaughs

asmartbull said:


> If you are relying on CA for scores, it is a sad day.
> They are also the say folks that give FRESH Behike's the highest scores on the planet, and havle the Oliva's leading the pack of NC's. *If you compare same yr Monarch's and Sir Winstonn's (02,05, 08) there not even close...I believe the monarch could be mistaken for D.R.*
> I guess to each his own,,,sorry for the hijack


That's kind of what I said, isn't it? Remember that I said I have both a box of '03 Monarchs A/T and '03 Sir Winstons. I used CA as a point of reference like any other. There are some "normal", forum reviews of the Behike that make it out to be one of the best on the planet as well. It is possible. To be more specific, the 52 and 54 scored a 94, while they 56 was given an 85. The highest rated Oliva was given a 94. In any case, I'm not here to debate CA/CI. They are just guys with opinions, and I only used them as a point of reference. If you want, I can give you MRN's opinion and point you to a few different forum discussions about them. Again, the folks here didn't think they were so bad, and you can check other review sites like cigars-review.org. Either way, "to each his own" is exactly one of the points of this. We are all individuals whose palates may or may not agree. I happen to think my '03 Monarchs are terrific and was confident they would set the bar high for all subsequent reviews.


----------



## Dan-Hur

The H. Upmann Monarch really hit the spot for me, but 6-7 years seems like a long time to wait to enjoy something. Of course, I only keep a small supply of cigars and don't have a humidor specifically for aging.

The Bolivar was decent enough but it seemed kind of flat to me. Looking forward to seeing what #3 is.


----------



## tobacmon

Wow #2 was another one that surprised me--I was at least spot on with the Line though...Maybe because I've not had many Gold Medals--

#3 PM sent-------------


----------



## sirxlaughs

Awesome! Another reveal coming soon as I compile the results. Cigar #3 has so far been the most interesting. One of the reasons I picked this cigar is that the last time I smoked one (about 2 months ago), it absolutely baffled me. It tasted nothing like I remembered it, and very "ambiguous" when it comes to origin.


----------



## tobacmon

Dan-Hur said:


> The *H. Upmann Monarch really hit the spot for me, but 6-7 years seems like a long time to wait to enjoy something*. Of course, I only keep a small supply of cigars and don't have a humidor specifically for aging.
> 
> *Same here -**---I don't keep many long enough and that might be a reason behind the loss of twang we are calling it--not sure but would enjoy trying something (same cigars) from 2 different time zones and see if that could be the answer to my ignorance---*
> 
> *The Bolivar was decent enough but it seemed kind of flat to me*. Looking forward to seeing what #3 is.


*I enjoyed the Monarch but thought so far #2 (to me) was much better*:help:


----------



## tobacmon

A little off subject here Bruno but wanted to see what your favorite cc cigar is ? That is the best bang for the buck?


----------



## sirxlaughs

*Cigar #3*

*Reviewer: Mark (Breakaway500)*

Tasting notes: Corona..light brown,smooth wrapper.Toasty flavor at first, tight draw,but within reason.Earthy,light to medium smoke quantity.Slow pace-beautiful white ash! Perfect burn. Some grassiness 1/2 way..an incredible ash column.Turning malty flavored,with the other flavors hanging in there as well. Very consistent flavor delivery right to the nub. I prefer a bit more sweetness,but other than that,an excellent smoke!

Origin: Mild Cuban

Age: well aged

Price: N/A

Rating: 8.75

Marca: N/A

*Reviewer: Dan (Dan-Hur)*

Tasting notes: Primarily hay and grassy flavors throughout. Not unpleasant, but different from what I'm used to. Two or three puffs in and I got a strange, almost numb sensation on the tip of my tongue and the roof of my mouth. The smoke itself was smooth and pleasantly copious. As it moved along, it got a little peppery with some more earthy flavors and occasional wood and cocoa notes. The smoke, all told, was pleasant and unique but not the best I've ever had or the best of the unmarked cigars I've had so far. I'd say it's about tied with #2. On a side note, it burned faster than I expected it to, given the size. I'm not sure the exact measurements, but it was about five inches long with I'd guess a more than fifty ring gauge.

Origin: I think it might be Cuban. Don't know about twang, but it was pretty different from my usual fair.

Age: I'd guess maybe two or more years old.

Price: Everyday.

Rating: 7/10

Marca: Since I'm unfamiliar with any Cuban brands, I'd really just be flat out guessing with this one.

*Reviewer: John (Johnny Rock)*

Tasting notes: Grassiness, sweet spicey vanilla twang, with come mocha overtones in the background building from medium to full. Excellent burn.

Origin: Pinar Del Rio, Habano

Age: 4~5 yrs

Price: Super-premium

Rating: 9

Marca: Cohiba Siglo IV

*Reviewer: Paul (tobacmon)*

Tasting notes: I could taste the age of this smoke from the subtle musty flavors of the pre-draw. This followed up with lots of cedar, slight hay and tobacco after the light. I have enjoyed all the smokes so far but this one was the one that grabbed my attention. The draw, burn line and marble ash were all along what I like and enjoy in a smoke.

Origin: Stuck in between the CC & Dominican on this smoke as the Monte's tend to do that to me if indeed that is what this cigar is. So I'm going all out and say it's a CC.

Age: This cigar feels and taste like it does have a few years on it-I'd guess 1-2

Price: Premium

Rating: 7

Marca: Montecristo


----------



## sirxlaughs

tobacmon said:


> A little off subject here Bruno but wanted to see what your favorite cc cigar is ? That is the best bang for the buck?


I can't say I have a definite favorite since my craving changes almost day to day. The two that I've had that have been the most consistent for me have been the Bolivar PC and Partagas PSD4. Best bang for the buck for me has been Partagas Shorts and Ramon Allones Specially Selected. These two are less expensive than many, have given me few consistency issues, and (the ones I've gotten) haven't needed to be aged to smoke well.


----------



## tobacmon

sirxlaughs said:


> I can't say I have a definite favorite since my craving changes almost day to day. The two that I've had that have been the most consistent for me have been the Bolivar PC and Partagas PSD4. *Best bang for the buck for me has been Partagas Shorts and Ramon Allones Specially Selected. These two are less expensive than many, have given me few consistency issues, and (the ones I've gotten) haven't needed to be aged to smoke well.*


+1 on your thoughts--I also enjoy the RASS and the shorts are great with a morning cup of joe. Thanks!


----------



## sirxlaughs

The last time I smoked Cigar #3, I was in Central Park. After a lit it, I thought to myself, "Holy sh*t! They never tasted like this before!" I had smoked one about 6 months or a bit longer prior to that. To me, the cigar had transformed to the point where I didn't recognize it anymore. And now, the big reveal:

*Cigar #3:* Avo LE 07, Dominican









Back when the box was still full.

Paul came very close. Ultimately, everyone came to the same conclusion.

As of cigar #3:

Mark: 1/3
Dan: 0/3
John: 2/3
Paul: 0/3


----------



## tobacmon

I've had one of these cigars (well now 2) and was impressed with them. The price was not to my fancy and think that is why I went with the Tat's for instance.


----------



## sirxlaughs

tobacmon said:


> I've had one of these cigars (well now 2) and was impressed with them. The price was not to my fancy and think that is why I went with the Tat's for instance.


Did you notice any differences/similarities between the two?


----------



## tobacmon

sirxlaughs said:


> Did you notice any differences/similarities between the two?


I did --- it reminded me of the Tatuaje Cojonu 2006 but with some different flavors mixed in, but very similar to me.


----------



## Breakaway500

The bright white ash column on cigar #3 was amazing.I am usually not one to comment on ash,but it held on for so long,and was so vivid it stole the show.Dominican..well,that would have been my second choice..


----------



## Johnny Rock

sirxlaughs said:


> The last time I smoked Cigar #3, I was in Central Park. After a lit it, I thought to myself, "Holy sh*t! They never tasted like this before!" I had smoked one about 6 months or a bit longer prior to that. To me, the cigar had transformed to the point where I didn't recognize it anymore. And now, the big reveal:
> 
> *Cigar #3:* Avo LE 07, Dominican
> 
> Back when the box was still full.
> 
> Paul came very close. Ultimately, everyone came to the same conclusion.
> 
> As of cigar #3:
> 
> Mark: 1/3
> Dan: 0/3
> John: 2/3
> Paul: 0/3


Are you sure someone didn't pull a switch-a-roo on you, steal your AVO's and replace them with some CC's? :spy:...LOL


----------



## sirxlaughs

Johnny Rock said:


> Are you sure someone didn't pull a switch-a-roo on you, steal your AVO's and replace them with some CC's? :spy:...LOL


LoL... I wouldn't complain if they did. I'm really liking the way they're smoking now.


----------



## tobacmon

Forth page of the thread and #4 is en route---


----------



## sirxlaughs

*Cigar #4*

*Reviewer: Mark (Breakaway500)*

Tasting notes: Petit robusto..light brown smooth wrapper. Delicious creamy,buttery..wet leather,light grass and little digs of sweetness. Perfect draw and pace.Moderate smoke quantity.Ended stronger,but nicely done! This is a wonderful cigar. If this is not a Cuban,I'll eat a bug! Some cracking of the wrapper just ahead of the fire ring,but did not affect anything other than visual. My new favorite.

Origin: Cuban

Age: aged

Price: Ultra premium

Rating: 9.6

Marca: possibly another Bolivar?

*Reviewer: John (Johnny Rock)*

Tasting notes: Full bodied leather and earth, a little rough around the edges. Slight burn problem, with wrapper crack and peel.

Origin: Pinar Del Rio, Habano

Age: > 2 yrs

Price: premium

Rating: 7.5

Marca: Trinidad short edmundo or Monte petite edmundo. Leaning to the Trini, not high on my buy list.
*
Reviewer: Dan (Dan-Hur)*

Tasting notes: The smoke is leathery and smooth with some mild pepper in the back of the throat. After a couple of puffs, I start to pick up a flavor that's reminding me of bell peppers. Toward the middle, the smoke gets a little woody but the prominent flavor is still leather intermingled with the bell pepper. The last couple of puffs were a shade sweeter and spicier than the rest of the cigar but still leathery and smooth. Pretty nice cigar with ample smoke but a somewhat finicky burn.

Origin: Dominican

Age: 3-5 years.

Price: premium

Rating: 8/10

Marca: N/A

*Reviewer: Paul (tobacmon)*

Tasting notes: Pre-draw had some cubanist taste with woodsy, oak flavors. Slight tug on the draw, as I would expect from a yearling. The ash has slight marbling to it that also says it's from the ISOM.

Origin: Cuba

Age: 1

Price: Premium

Rating: 8

Marca: Partagas D-4 maybe


----------



## Breakaway500

Sooooooo?? What is it? I need to order some...


----------



## bouncintiga

interesting results so far. before this last review I would've said that a lot of this hinged on the experience or lack thereof of the reviewers. 

But then again I've claimed an NC or two to remind me of CC's. before i get flamed i did say "remind".


----------



## Mante

bouncintiga said:


> interesting results so far. before this last review I would've said that a lot of this hinged on the experience or lack thereof of the reviewers.
> 
> But then again I've claimed an NC or two to remind me of CC's. * before i get flamed *i did say "remind".


Relax Andrew, that is not what Bruno is after methinks. There are indeed NC's that are "Cubanesque", La Riqueza comes to mind but the aim here is to see if a definite cuban taste can be nailed down.


----------



## bouncintiga

Tashaz said:


> Relax Andrew, that is not what Bruno is after methinks. There are indeed NC's that are "Cubanesque", La Riqueza comes to mind but the aim here is to see if a definite cuban taste can be nailed down.


heh, always smart to protect oneself from the cc vs nc flames that are almost sure to follow once "wild and audacious" claims are made for either side.


----------



## Mante

bouncintiga said:


> heh, always smart to protect oneself from the cc vs nc flames that are almost sure to follow once "wild and audacious" claims are made for either side.


Indeed that is true in the open forum but there are no sides here. The challenge was put forward and our heroes accepted (Kudos to you all for stepping up where I lacked the balls to do so). No judgments are being passed here. I understand your reasoning though. *Smile*:smoke:


----------



## fiddlegrin

From the notes on #4 I'm guessing boli cc 

:woohoo:


----------



## fiddlegrin

P.S.
Thank you Bruno for hosting this fun Event :thumb:

:yo:


----------



## sirxlaughs

fiddlegrin said:


> From the notes on #4 I'm guessing boli cc
> 
> :woohoo:


Mark made the same correlation to cigar #2. The big reveal is coming. I scurried to take a pic of the cigar/box before heading out to work. Good thing I have an office I can hide in occasionally. :typing:



fiddlegrin said:


> P.S.
> Thank you Bruno for hosting this fun Event :tu
> :yo:


My pleasure.


----------



## Tredegar

Been wanting to say this for a long, long time.

Isn't "The Search for Twang" a cheap Chinese Martial Arts movie from the seventies?


----------



## sirxlaughs

bouncintiga said:


> interesting results so far. before this last review I would've said that a lot of this hinged on the experience or lack thereof of the reviewers.
> 
> But then again I've claimed an NC or two to remind me of CC's. before i get flamed i did say "remind".


I'm trying to keep this a flame free thread. haha...
Many people get defensive when you make claims contrary to their own (of which I am also guilty of), but I'm hoping this thread can stay more open minded. 
I also agree that one of the biggest factors in a person's accuracy in a blind tasting is experience. I've read blind tastings where people managed to get 8-9 out of 10 cigars correct. One of the most memorable ones I read, one of the reviewers even identified a 1970's Montecristo right down to the year. One of the things that intrigued me about having Dan in this blind tasting is that his palate is arguably the most inexperienced of the panel. That being said, all the tasting notes he's provided me have been close to my own experience, if not exact. But due to his lack of experience with Cuban marcas, he can't pinpoint their origin. This was also one of my earlier arguments. That rather than an entire country having a particularly unique taste in all of it's tobacco, people (from experience) can come to recognize the blends of specific brands/vitolas and thereby correlate a country. It's kind of like how Dan correlated the Monarch with the Sultan, Paul was torn with his reminiscence of Montecristo with the Avo, and John thought I was playing spot the Cohiba games(LoL, joke from a PM). I'll save some of my other thoughts for the end since I can probably ramble on near infinitely.


----------



## Mante

Tredegar said:


> Been wanting to say this for a long, long time.
> 
> Isn't "The Search for Twang" a cheap Chinese Martial Arts movie from the seventies?


The classic was called "Enter the Wang" but the sequel was "Game of Twang" Sorry Bruno. LOL


----------



## tobacmon

fiddlegrin said:


> From the notes on #4 I'm guessing boli cc
> 
> :woohoo:


I was thinking of the Boli also but did not seem as full. but with age,that could be the determining factor....we,ll see


----------



## sirxlaughs

*Cigar #4:* Bolivar Short Bolivar (Asian Pacific Regional Release) AGO(August) '08, Cuban










Congrats to John, Paul, and especially Mark who not only got the origin correct, but the marca as well.

For me, this cigar screams Bolivar more than any other Bolivar I've had. Think of a PC, but fatter, shorter, and more concentrated in Bolivar goodness. Mark, if you really want to get your hands on there (my box is one of 7400), I can tell you where you can still find them, but there is a premium attached to regional releases. Given your enjoyment of both Bolivars, I'd recommend their regular production stuff first (PC, RC, CG, etc).

As of Cigar #4:

Mark: 2/4
Dan: 0/4
John: 3/4
Paul: 1/4


----------



## bouncintiga

sirxlaughs said:


> I'm trying to keep this a flame free thread. haha...
> Many people get defensive when you make claims contrary to their own (of which I am also guilty of), but I'm hoping this thread can stay more open minded.
> I also agree that one of the biggest factors in a person's accuracy in a blind tasting is experience. I've read blind tastings where people managed to get 8-9 out of 10 cigars correct. One of the most memorable ones I read, one of the reviewers even identified a 1970's Montecristo right down to the year. One of the things that intrigued me about having Dan in this blind tasting is that his palate is arguably the most inexperienced of the panel. That being said, all the tasting notes he's provided me have been close to my own experience, if not exact. But due to his lack of experience with Cuban marcas, he can't pinpoint their origin. This was also one of my earlier arguments. That rather than an entire country having a particularly unique taste in all of it's tobacco, people (from experience) can come to recognize the blends of specific brands/vitolas and thereby correlate a country. It's kind of like how Dan correlated the Monarch with the Sultan, Paul was torn with his reminiscence of Montecristo with the Avo, and John thought I was playing spot the Cohiba games(LoL, joke from a PM). I'll save some of my other thoughts for the end since I can probably ramble on near infinitely.


ahh yes i see. the point isn't for people to identify with precise accuracy what year, marca and cigar a particular smoke is due to years and years of experience.

but I would still say that the CC newbie should at least be very well versed in NC's. I say this because there are a lot more more NC's than CC's (in the US), and it could be hard to say whether one could taste a difference unless they have tried most NC's otherwise they might be quick to label a new NC they've never had before as a CC just because it tasted "different". but does that different taste correspond to the twang from CC's? does that make sense?

also then, since you've already posted the results from the reviews along with the correct cigar, do you think these results will bias future tastings since now the smokers can relate past flavors to the news ones?


----------



## sirxlaughs

bouncintiga said:


> ahh yes i see. the point isn't for people to identify with precise accuracy what year, marca and cigar a particular smoke is due to years and years of experience.


Exactly. All those criteria are there for fun. The main point is to see if there is a common flavor that people have dubbed "twang." I remember when I first heard the word, learned a little history about, and can still recall the taste it was used to described. Over the years, it's just become a word people use to describe Cuban cigars in general, and most people now identify it with different tastes based on their own palates. While I would've agreed that Cuban cigars were unique and unrivaled in just about every way a few decades ago, I just can't do it anymore. The cigar world gets more interesting everyday. I just recently smoked one of those "Face" cigars from Tatuaje. It's Mexican on the outside with Nicaraguan innards, and I can honestly say I've not tasted anything like it. I smoked it til my fingers burned. There is a very unique taste to that cigar that kind of reminded me of a Sumatran wrapped cigar I had once (I can't remember the brand, tho).



> but I would still say that the CC newbie should at least be very well versed in NC's. I say this because there are a lot more more NC's than CC's (in the US), and it could be hard to say whether one could taste a difference unless they have tried most NC's otherwise they might be quick to label a new NC they've never had before as a CC just because it tasted "different". but does that different taste correspond to the twang from CC's? does that make sense?


I agree, a smoker with little experience in any type of cigar would simply be guessing. But one of the reasons I decided to do each reveal as the reviews are completed is to sort of alleviate that. For example, each reviewer has now sampled three Cuban cigars. If there really is a common taste among them all, they should now be identifiable since I've revealed them as Cuban. Also notice that everyone, from the most to the least experienced, thought the Avo was Cuban. I know it's just one cigar, but when arguing absolutes, it only takes one example to cast doubt.



> also then, since you've already posted the results from the reviews along with the correct cigar, do you think these results will bias future tastings since now the smokers can relate past flavors to the news ones?


I debated this for a while, but ultimately decided to do each reveal as the reviews are completed. One of the reasons I did, I stated above. I also didn't want to be a prick, in a way. haha. It's kind of like when there's an exam in school with subsequent questions that hinge on the answer of a previous question. So, if you got the first one wrong, you're screwed for the rest. Something about that just doesn't seem "nice" to do.


----------



## Breakaway500

.."do you think these results will bias future tastings since now the smokers can relate past flavors to the news ones?"

Only if Bruno used two of the same cigar in the line up.

I don't thing he would be so cruel...


----------



## Dan-Hur

I almost said Cuban, but I went with Dominican because I noticed some similarities between #4 and the #3. I think it was the texture of the smoke because I got a similar sensation in the mouth and on the tongue that I haven't noticed in any other cigars.


----------



## bouncintiga

Breakaway500 said:


> .."do you think these results will bias future tastings since now the smokers can relate past flavors to the news ones?"
> 
> Only if Bruno used two of the same cigar in the line up.
> 
> I don't thing he would be so cruel...


that's not what i meant though.. what i mean is now that you tasters have sampled various cigars and know what to look for "twang wise", will that bias affect future tastings. say, cigar #7 has a flavor which reminds me of cigar #2 therefore it's of ____ origin.


----------



## sirxlaughs

bouncintiga said:


> that's not what i meant though.. what i mean is now that you tasters have sampled various cigars and know what to look for "twang wise", will that bias affect future tastings. say, cigar #7 has a flavor which reminds me of cigar #2 therefore it's of ____ origin.


That's kind of what we're "searching" for. Even if I didn't reveal them, they'd just continue making incorrect answers. Like, if they said non-Cuban for #2, and then #7 tastes like #2, they may say non-Cuban again. This should also be reflected in the tasting notes. For example, if they tasted a leathery oddness in #2, and then tasted it again in #7. Furthermore, if that taste is what we're looking for, it should be noticed across all cigars of a particular origin. That is to say that, so far, cigars 1, 2, and 4 should all have tasted similar, but 3 should've been the odd man out lacking whatever unique quality those 3 had. So far, it seems that each reviewer is tasting something slightly different, which I think shows us both how unique our palates can be and the perception of "taste" can be more involved than just the sensors on our tongues. Another thing I'm finding interesting is the rating each person is giving the cigars. It also gives us insight into taste preference. One reviewer may really enjoy a particular cigar, while another does not. The variance so far has been anywhere from a 7 to 9+. I'm actually relieved (so far) that none of them have scored below a 7. One of my goals in picking the cigars out was the hope that, regardless of the results, the entire experience will turn out to be a pleasant one. One of the "reveals" that I don't mind giving away is that there are no "joke" cigars in the bunch. I wasn't giggling to myself while packing a strawberry Dutch Masters. LoL


----------



## fiddlegrin

sirxlaughs said:


> *Cigar #4:* Bolivar Short Bolivar .......
> 
> As of Cigar #4:
> 
> Mark: 2/4
> Dan: 0/4
> John: 3/4
> Paul: 1/4
> Dafiddla: 1/1 --- :brick:


Heheeheehee! :lol:


----------



## Dan-Hur

No Dutch Bastards? That's a relief.

Anyway, mostly what I've been trying to do is match each cigar with a familiar experience. The first one that tasted really different to me was #3, which gave me an odd sensation in the mouth and on the tongue. #4 gave me a similar sensation which is why I ended up picking Dominican over Cuban.


----------



## Johnny Rock

I love the whole idea of picking up a cigar with no band and trying to figure out what it is. 

The test becomes really difficult if you happen to get one that doesn't meet your flavor profile. In the spirit of the game you plow through it anyway, trying to be as objective as possible. I've smoked many a banded cigar all the way through that I did not care for, making sure I got my money's worth out of the cigar. 

Thankfully Bruno hasn't spiked this batch with any dog rockets (yet), although they wouldn't be much more difficult for me to identify, based on my personal buying habits...LOL


----------



## sirxlaughs

fiddlegrin said:


> Heheeheehee! :lol:


LoL... Maybe I'll give everyone about an hour or so after posting reviews to post spectator guesses. haha



Johnny Rock said:


> I love the whole idea of picking up a cigar with no band and trying to figure out what it is.
> 
> The test becomes really difficult if you happen to get one that doesn't meet your flavor profile. In the spirit of the game you plow through it anyway, trying to be as objective as possible. I've smoked many a banded cigar all the way through that I did not care for, making sure I got my money's worth out of the cigar.
> 
> Thankfully Bruno hasn't spiked this batch with any dog rockets (yet), although they wouldn't be much more difficult for me to identify, based on my personal buying habits...LOL


Or did I...... :spy:.....:mischief:


----------



## Johnny Rock

#6 on the nubber ATM, a very enjoyable stick for me. Whatever this one is, I need to get a box, or at least the rest of Bruno's stash...LOL, freakin yummy!! :ss


----------



## tobacmon

*As of Cigar #4:

Mark: 2/4
Dan: 0/4
John: 3/4
Paul: 1/4*

Finally on the board---Should have #5 done and PM to you in the AM---


----------



## tobacmon

PM sent!


----------



## Rodeo

Very enjoyable read here gents


----------



## sirxlaughs

*Cigar #5

Reviewer: Mark(Breakaway500)*

Tasting Notes: Torpedo,dark brown,veiny wrapper.Prelight draw was peppery. First 1/3 was earthy,black pepper,rich tobacco-chocolate. Perfect draw,medium strength delivery,medium smoke quantity.Settled into a pleasant unsweetened dark chocolate flavor/light pepper from 1/2 way till the end. Very different from the last 4 cigars reviewed.Shorter burn time than I expected.

Origin: Non Cuban, Honduras, second guess would be Nicaragua

Age: aged

Price: Premium

Rating: 8.8

Marca: N/A

*Reviewer: John (Johnny Rock)*

Tasting notes: Medium to Full bodied leather and earth. Hints of cocoa, nuts and slight bit of pepper on the retrohale. Good burn characteristics

Origin: Esteli, Nicaragua

Age: ~ 1 yrs or less

Price: premium (can be had for mid)

Rating: 8

Marca: Pretty sure this is a Man-o-War Torp

*Reviewer: Dan (Dan-Hur)*

Tasting notes: First light brings nice, heavy flavors of earth which quickly mellow down and join a very pleasant array of coffee, cocoa and wood. Got a little over-zealous in my enjoyment of the cigar in the first inch and half so I had to force myself to slow down, taking a puff every two minutes instead of just every one minute. As things progress, the cocoa, coffee and earth flavors stay pretty consistent, with some mild baking spices popping in. All told, a very smooth and flavorful cigar. Burn was little finicky, but the ash was firm and only fell twice during the duration of the smoke.

Origin: It reminded me of the Pradon x000s and Perdomo Habano I've had, so I think it might be Nicaraguan.

Age: 3-5 years, maybe. Smelled pretty strongly of cedar which makes me think it had some time in a humidor.

Price: Premium.

Rating: 9/10. Top notch smoke in my book.

Marca: Might be a Perdomo.

*Reviewer: Paul (tobacmon)*

Tasting Notes: Starting off lots of leather and spice and a nutty after taste and reminding me of the Tatuaje line. Lots of smoke, the burn lines a bit off, relit couple of times, but overall I 'm enjoying this smoke very much. Noted coffee/cocoa in the middle of this smoke and leathery background also. Rounding out the end was the ever-present spicy & leathery taste from the beginning.

Origin:.Nicaragua

Age: 2-3

Price: Premium

Rating: 8/10

Marca: Tatuaje Cojonu 2006


----------



## Breakaway500

Wow. We all pretty much nailed it in flavor and being a non Cuban. Well..what was it?


----------



## bouncintiga

the suspense is killing me. :target::target::target:


----------



## sirxlaughs

*Cigar #5:* Don Pepin Blue Imperiales APR 2007, Non-Cuban, Nicaraguan










As Mark noted, everyone pretty much nailed this cigar. I'm curious as to everyone's thoughts, knowing now that this is a Pepin Blue, on how they feel it compares to a fresh one.
Congrats, everyone!

As of cigar #5:
Mark: 3/5
Dan: 1/5
John: 4/5
Paul: 2/5


----------



## Breakaway500

I have never had one before,but I did like it! I'm just about to light #8....


----------



## youngstogiesmoker

Subscribed.

Great thread, great test. Great read. Keep up the good work fellas.


----------



## Dan-Hur

A DPG Blue, huh? Going to have to try a fresh one soon to see how it compares because I really enjoyed that one. Looking forward to seeing what #6 was.


----------



## Breakaway500

Heaven..I'm in heaven...


----------



## fiddlegrin

sirxlaughs said:


> *Cigar #5:* Don Pepin Blue Imperiales APR 2007, Non-Cuban, Nicaraguan


Gah! I missed my chance to guess!:target:

The D.P. Blue Imperiales I tried were all pepper, all the time with non of the fun complexities yall got.
Makes me wish I had aged the stash of em I had instead of offing them.

Congratulations on an enjoyable schmoke Fellers! Glad you enjoyed em!
:clap2:...:clap2:...:clap2:...:clap2:...

.


----------



## Johnny Rock

Just submitted my review for #8, which was another very nice smoking experience. :ss 

So far I've been really stumped on the Marca and age, this one will not help my score either...LOL :hmm::hmm:.


----------



## tobacmon

I was not impressed with Blue label when it first was introduced but must say this one I would of enjoyed if it weren't for the burn problems and the relights.


----------



## Johnny Rock

Making my way through #9 ATM. It's a dirty job (you know the ashes and all), but someone has to do it. Whatever this is will definitely be on my buy list. 

Getting really envious of Bruno's stash at this point.

Bruno, when this is all over, what are the odds of getting the bands from these sticks as memorabilia?


----------



## sirxlaughs

Johnny Rock said:


> Making my way through #9 ATM. It's a dirty job (you know the ashes and all), but someone has to do it. Whatever this is will definitely be on my buy list.
> 
> Getting really envious of Bruno's stash at this point.
> 
> Bruno, when this is all over, what are the odds of getting the bands from these sticks as memorabilia?


Highly unlikely since I threw them all out. I could always remove the bands from some other ones and put'em in an envelope.


----------



## Dan-Hur

I've actually kept all the blank bands and put them with the rest of my collection.


----------



## Breakaway500

^Me too.. Although, they weren't blank.


----------



## Johnny Rock

# 10 is in the ashtray, a neat little firecracker. 

I'll be interested to see the reviews on this one. 

Probably do # 11 after dinner.


----------



## Breakaway500

No update today..hmm..maybe some of the boys are slacking...


----------



## Johnny Rock

Breakaway500 said:


> No update today..hmm..maybe some of the boys are slacking...


Yeah, smoking all those great cigars takes it's toll on you, I might need a rest myself and smoke a few dog rockets this weekend...LOL


----------



## Shaz

Ok, who's holding this up. :spank:
I can't wait for the next review.op2:op2:op2:


----------



## Johnny Rock

# 11 is on the nubber and my review is in the book.

The selection of cigars that we were asked to review by Bruno, are second to none IMO.

I am almost lost for words of how a BOTL could send out 60 of his best smokes for us to burn up and BS about on a forum.

You are a BOTL of no equal Bruno. This excersize you dreamed up for everyone's enjoyment and education should go down in puff history...I'm just saying... WOW!! :ss


----------



## Breakaway500

Yea..it's been a eye opener for me,especially the smaller sizes. Bigger isn't always better.. Grand Master Bruno has been very kind.


----------



## sirxlaughs

Wow, guys. Thanks so much for the kind words. I'm deeply humbled. While looking through the emoticons, I noticed there's an "embarrassed" one, but it looks retarded. So, I'll use this one instead. ::behindsofa:
I truly am glad you've all enjoyed the experience thus far. :tea:

A little off-topic, but something I only picked up on earlier this year. Many may know of a certain "authority" on Cuban cigars known by his pen name, MRN. A book with lots of a great pictures, some good info, and some "odd" info (I'd rather say odd than call it bad just b/c I don't agree with it). This little emoticon :tea: being called "tea" had me craving some puerh. I'm not sure how many tea enthusiasts there are on the board, but there are some teas that are purposely aged very similarly to cigars requiring things such as temp, humidity, oxygen flow, etc. Puerh is such a tea. One thing I never noticed from MRN's book that I noticed in the "Aging" section of it was this:








Apologies for the blurry cell phone shot. For anyone trying to read the excerpt beneath the tea shot, he calls it "Poo Lee" for some reason. Maybe he speaks something other than Cantonese or Mandorin (Pu-erh is Mandarin, Bo-lay is Cantonese). There's also some nonsense about aging tea in air tight containers and cellophane being air tight. He says something about people not "breathing" their teas. That's all nonsense. In fact, the tea ages in pretty much the same way as cigars. If you seal it completely, no oxygen will interact with the tea, and you will (in essence) freeze it in time. Also, real cellophane (not polypropylene) breathes a bit. That's why it's used for cigars. It provides a protective barrier while allowing some (very small) amounts of air and moisture in/out. Off-topic rant about an off-topic subject aside, what I found interesting, is that I've been drinking this tea and never noticed that MRN made the same connection to it that I have. And now, I'm going to go enjoy some 2003 Lang He "green mark".


----------



## Arnie

There is more to you than meets the eye, Bruno. I didn't know there were many tea guys here. I am partial to the Estate teas from Assam and Darjeeling myself, but I have a small stash of Pu Erh along with Keemun and Nilgiri and so on and so forth. 
We served Afternoon Tea at our restaurant years ago. It was fun. We made our own blend called Smoky Rose, which goes surprisingly well with a Taboo Twist.

But I never made the connection of that nasty tannin taste of an over-brewed pot of tea and a young cigar. I should have, now that I remember a young Bolivar RC that had that taste. I just didn't connect the two. Good one, Bruno!


----------



## tobacmon

*I have #6, 7 & 8 done and on paper--PM ing Bruno now*----

Working on #9 today and #10 tomorrow morning.


----------



## Breakaway500

Slacker!


----------



## fiddlegrin

Johnny Rock said:


> This excersize you dreamed up for everyone's enjoyment and education should go down in puff history...I'm just saying... WOW!! :ss


+ 30 I'm sure:thumb: :clap2:....:clap2:....:clap2:....:clap2:....

:high5:


----------



## fiddlegrin

sirxlaughs said:


> A little off-topic, but .........I'm not sure how many tea enthusiasts there are on the board, but there are some teas that are purposely aged very similarly to cigars requiring things such as temp, humidity, oxygen flow, etc. Puerh is such a tea. :tea:


What an interesting thread jack! :nod:

.


----------



## fiddlegrin

Arnie said:


> But I never made the connection of that nasty tannin taste of an over-brewed pot of tea and a young cigar. I should have, now that I remember a young Bolivar RC that had that taste. I just didn't connect the two. Good one, Bruno!


And a facinating segway back to cigars! :nod:

Fun Stuff!!!!!!!!!
Virtual rg :bump2: s all around!

.


----------



## sirxlaughs

Looks like I've got some reviews to compile. Stay tuned, everyone.


----------



## fiddlegrin

Now I've got a hankerin for some Lapsang Souchong :tea:


----------



## sirxlaughs

Arnie said:


> There is more to you than meets the eye, Bruno. I didn't know there were many tea guys here. I am partial to the Estate teas from Assam and Darjeeling myself, but I have a small stash of Pu Erh along with Keemun and Nilgiri and so on and so forth.
> We served Afternoon Tea at our restaurant years ago. It was fun. We made our own blend called Smoky Rose, which goes surprisingly well with a Taboo Twist.
> 
> But I never made the connection of that nasty tannin taste of an over-brewed pot of tea and a young cigar. I should have, now that I remember a young Bolivar RC that had that taste. I just didn't connect the two. Good one, Bruno!


That's awesome. After going through my tea obsession (trying to find the ones that I'd stick with), I pretty much landed on puerh for myself (both cooked and raw since they're so different) and oolong for both myself and the wife. I usually just drink water when I'm smoking, but you've given me quite an idea. 



fiddlegrin said:


> And a facinating segway back to cigars! :nod:
> 
> Fun Stuff!!!!!!!!!
> Virtual rg :bump2: s all around!
> 
> .


Glad you thought so. It would be interesting if people on forum all of a sudden started posting pictures of their tea in their cigar reviews. :lol:
Actually.... maybe I'll do that. :thumb:


----------



## sirxlaughs

*Cigar #6

Reviewer: Mark(Breakaway500)*

Tasting Notes: Petit robusto..medium brown smooth wrapper.Mmm..leathery-woodsy..moderate smoke quantity.A little touch of black pepper.Nice draw. Settled into a full strength smoke,with a bit of rye,but mostly old leather,which I like. One minor touch-up.Smoked till it burned my fingers.This one has me confused.

Origin: I am going to say Cuban..could be D.R.

Age: 1-2 yrs aged

Price: Premium

Rating: 9 Very unique flavor presentation!

Marca: N/A

*Reviewer: John (Johnny Rock)*

Tasting notes: _Medium bodied, perfect construction and burn. Honey, leather and oak with hints of vanilla. A tickle of creamy spice on the retrohale, did not want this to end. Very close to cigar nirvana._

Origin: _Dominican Republic_

Age: 2-3 _yrs_

Price: premium

Rating: 9

Marca: _If this isn't a LFD Maceo, I'll eat my hat...LOL:ss_

*Reviewer: Dan (Dan-Hur)*

Tasting notes: First inch or so was dominated by some pleasantly sweet earth and cedar notes. At about halfway, coffee and wood became more prominent but with the same underlying sweetness. In the final inning, I started to pick up a sort of baking spice flavor that went very nicely with the cedar.

Origin: Might be Cuban.

Age: Not really sure, but I'll say 3-5 years.

Price: Premium.

Rating: 9/10

Marca: N/A

*Reviewer: Paul (tobacmon)*

Tasting Notes: Started with a pre-draw of cedar & earth. Draw was clean and clear. After the light the leather and pepper kicked in and was very enjoyable. In the middle some cedar & hay were present with slight peppery after tones. Had a few problems with the burn line but a few touch ups took care of that. At the end of this cigar it added some slight leathery taste combined with more pepper & stayed in line with the middle taste notes but a bit more intense.

Origin: Cuba

Age: 3-4

Price: Premium

Rating: 8/10

Marca: RyJ or H. Upmann


----------



## sirxlaughs

*Cigar #6:* L'Esprit de Verite 2008 Vintage, Nicaragua










In case not everyone knows the story behind these cigars - Pete Johnson, being a wine buff (bordeaux), was inspired by the wine industry and decided to create a true vintage cigar meant to be aged as a cigar in the box. To clarify, "true" vintage means that all the tobacco used for this cigar is single estate from the same crop year (2008 ). The tobacco was dried and fermented for about a year to release the ammonias and such. Then, instead of aging in bales, they immediately rolled the cigars, stored them for another year and put them on the market. The whole "true" vintage concept is also where the name "La Verite", meaning "The Truth", comes from. Box codes in the cigar industry are arbitrary, and usually only mean when the cigar was placed in the box. It tells you nothing about the tobacco itself. There are other cigars which claim to use tobacco from specific years, but you don't always know how much of the tobacco is from that certain year. I picked these up because I'm very interested in seeing how this project will pan out. 
Unfortunately, no one managed to pick this one out and John might even be headed towards some indigestion. :lol:


----------



## bigslowrock

Let me see, bigtotoro did a review on these, I wonder how they compare.

http://www.cigarforums.net/forums/v...tatuaje-la-espirit-de-verite-quick-dirty.html


----------



## sirxlaughs

I forgot to mention:

As of Cigar #6:

Mark: 3/6
Dan: 1/6
John: 5/6
Paul: 2/6


----------



## sirxlaughs

*Cigar #7

Reviewer: Mark(Breakaway500)*

Tasting Notes: Robusto,medium brown smooth wrapper.Very tight draw,almost plugged.Some massaging made it smokeable. Peppery,moderate bitter grassy flavor.One touch up. Past the halfway point it opened up a lot,having a bittersweet grassy flavor with cedar.Nice aroma.

Origin: Cuban

Age: needs more age?

Price: Premium

Rating: 7.6

Marca: Punch

*Reviewer: John (Johnny Rock)*

Tasting notes: _Medium bodied, nice construction, but a wavy burn. Nutty, with cocoa, leather and woody flavors. Lots of Cuban Twang...which I describe as a king of sweet spicy vegetative zing_

Origin: _Habano_

Age: _less than 1 yr, seemed like ROTT_

Price: _Premium_

Rating: _7.5 now 9 in a few years_

Marca: _Monte Grand Edmundo_

*Reviewer: Dan (Dan-Hur)*

Tasting notes: First couple of inches are woody with some vanilla and slight grassy flavor. Toward the middle, the grassy taste fades a bit and some coffee and caramel flavors start to develop. In the final stretch, grass and wood become more dominate, but the coffee and caramel are still in play. Burn was solid and the ash was resilient despite the wind that wouldn't stop blowing.

Origin: Reminded me a bit of #1, the H. Upmann, so I'm thinking it might be Cuban.

Age: 5+

Price: Premium.

Rating: 8/10

Marca: H. Upmann

*Reviewer: Paul (tobacmon)*

Tasting Notes: The draw had a little tug with it but it lit well. The taste of wood and cedar combined with a slight sweetness to it right from the start. The spicy taste with a sweet caramel after taste picked up in the middle of this smoke that lasted till the end. The slight marbling ash held very well throughout the entire smoke that says it was put together well.

Origin: Cuba

Age: 3

Price: Premium

Rating: 8/10

Marca: Cohiba maybe a Siglo series


----------



## sirxlaughs

*Cigar #7:* Cohiba Siglo VI, NOV 04










Congrats to everyone for getting the origin correct, and extra kudos to Paul for getting origin, marca, and series. Very nice! I could have sworn John was going be the one to nail this one.

As of cigar #7:

Mark: 4/7
Dan: 2/7
John: 6/7
Paul: 3/7


----------



## Breakaway500

Wow..6 years old..man,it sure smoked green! I wish the draw had not beed so tight.No excuses..just wishing out loud. Well...on with the show! Nice job,Paul!


----------



## Johnny Rock

sirxlaughs said:


> *Cigar #7:* Cohiba Siglo VI, NOV 04 I could have sworn John was going be the one to nail this one.


It just figures... :doh: An '04 and I thought it was ROTT :frusty:

Well, my excuse will be I never had one older than '06... that's my story and I'm sticking to it...LOL:violin:


----------



## sirxlaughs

Johnny Rock said:


> It just figures... :doh: An '04 and I thought it was ROTT :frusty:
> 
> Well, my excuse will be I never had one older than '06... that's my story and I'm sticking to it...LOL:violin:


If its any consolation, I was never a big fan of them myself. Maybe the newer years were better.


----------



## Johnny Rock

Just finished #12, an my review is in. A nice little number that I wouldn't have minded being twice as long. 

Hopefully my age and marca guesses will get better. This is a lot harder then it would seem, a real eye opener for me.


----------



## sirxlaughs

*Cigar #8

Reviewer: Mark(Breakaway500)*

Tasting Notes: Petit lancero/corona..medium brown veiny wrapper..Perfect draw..a light peppery start followed by rich buttery,creamy flavor.Moderate smoke quantity,perfect burn.Intensified 1/2 way to oozy butter/cream and vanilla.Oh my...what a cigar.Such flavor and well over an hour from such a little smoke.So much butter!Medium to full strength.Brought a bit of sweat to my brow.

Origin: Hmm..I'm gonna have to say non Cuban,Dominican

Age: well aged

Price: Premium

Rating:9.6 a wow cigar!

Marca: Possibly an Opus X petit?

*Reviewer: John (Johnny Rock)*

Tasting notes: _Medium to full bodied, excellent construction and burn. Bittersweet cocoa and leather with woody, earthy flavors. Plenty of Cuban Twang of sweet spicy grassy zing._

Origin: _Habano_

Age: _Well rested ~ 4 -5 years_

Price: _Premium_

Rating: _8_

Marca: _Pure guess of H. Upmann grand corona ???_

*Reviewer: Dan (Dan-Hur)*

Tasting notes: Mostly leathery with some slight earthy notes pretty much throughout the duration of the smoke. The smoke itself was smooth and copious. At about the midway point, it started to get creamy with some peppery notes on the back of the tongue. Burn was nice and even and the ash was solid gray and only fell once before I called it quits. Not a bad smoke and it reminded me of the Bolivar I had earlier on.

Origin: Cuban maybe.

Age: 3+

Price: Premium.

Rating: 7.5

Marca: N/A

*Reviewer: Paul (tobacmon)*

Tasting Notes: Pre-Draw clear with taste of oak and some cedar. After the light noted some taste of leather & some spice. Nice size smoke. Picking up some more intense pepper and oak at the midway point. Really enjoying this cigar so far. Lots of smoke and the leather, white pepper are part of the midway and end of this smoke. Can't wait to see what this one is.

Origin: Honduran

Age: 2

Price: Premium

Rating: 7/10

Marca: N/A


----------



## bigslowrock

Tat?


----------



## sirxlaughs

*Cigar #8:* Opus X Petite Lancero purchased in 2008 (unsure if actual age), Dominican Republic










Congrats to Mark for getting it all! Seems he really enjoyed this one. It also happens to be a huge favorite of mine.

As of cigar #8:

Mark: 5/8
Dan: 2/8
John: 6/8
Paul: 4/8


----------



## Dan-Hur

Wow, you really went all out on this. Opus X, Cohiba, etc. Both of those, by the way, were firsts for me. Thanks again for the opportunity.

I saw an Opus X in a larger size up at my B&M. I'm tempted to get it now in order to compare the two sizes.


----------



## mike91LX

awesome thread guys ive been checking this daily. hats off to sixrlaughs for making this possible


----------



## fiddlegrin

Nice!!!!

I missed all the windows for guesses.... :dunno:

Nice work Gents!


----------



## tobacmon

sirxlaughs said:


> *Cigar #7:* Cohiba Siglo VI, NOV 04
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Congrats to everyone for getting the origin correct, and *extra kudos to Paul for getting origin, marca, and series. Very nice! *I could have sworn John was going be the one to nail this one.
> 
> As of cigar #7:
> 
> Mark: 4/7
> Dan: 2/7
> John: 6/7
> Paul: 3/7


Thanks Bruno for the comment and the awesome cigars you have forfeited to everyone. You my friend are the one to get the "Extra Kudos" for doing this--One for the record books for sure! I need to find out who your vender are---


----------



## tobacmon

#9 sent, working on #10.....


----------



## tobacmon

The L'Esprit de Verite 2008 Vintage was the first I have smoked and due to the cost ($16-$20 each) I probably would have picked something else in Pete's line. Thanks Bruno for giving me the opportunity of trying it!


----------



## sirxlaughs

*Cigar #9

Reviewer: Mark(Breakaway500)*

Tasting Notes: Petit corona..light/medium brown veiny wrapper. Hard draw.Grassy..bitter on the tongue,good burn.Low smoke quantity.Mild.Somewhat earthy.Ho hum...unremarkable.

Origin: Non Cuban.

Age: young

Price: n/a

Rating:6.5

Marca: n/a

*Reviewer: Dan (Dan-Hur)*

Tasting notes: Draw was really tight on this one, had to use a draw tool and even then it was tough. Anyway, the cigar started off with some really nice coffee and caramel flavors with some sweet spice as well. Flavor was consistent throughout and very pleasant. The draw did loosen up very nicely after about an inch. After the halfway mark, it developed some woodiness, but the coffee/caramel flavor was dominant.

Origin: Might be Dominican.

Age: 2-3 years

Price: Premium

Rating: 8

Marca: N/A

*Reviewer: John (Johnny Rock)*

Tasting notes:_Medium bodied, excellent construction and burn. Sweet tobacco and leather with woody, earthy flavors. Plenty of Cuban Twang of sweet spicy cinnamon/citrus zing._

Origin: _Habano_

Age: _~ 3 -4 years_

Price: _Premium_

Rating: 9

Marca: _Boli petite corona _

*Reviewer: Paul (tobacmon)*

Tasting Notes: This smoke had a nice slight tug on the draw with taste of cedar and earth. Started off with a nice burst of cedar and pepper followed up with a hint of spice. After smoking for a bit the Pepper I loss and the leather started picking up with great intensity. No problems with the burn the cigar started to mellow out at the midway point with the same taste as the start. The finish was pleasant and you could still taste the white pepper and leather. A smoke I enjoyed.

Origin: ISOM

Age: 2

Price: Premium

Rating: 8/10

Marca: N/A


----------



## Breakaway500

I would like another #8 for hitting it on the head... My #9 was such a letdown,especially after that yummy Opus! Oh well...take the good with the ..not so good. If #9 was a Bolivar,it will be my first dud Bolivar.


----------



## Johnny Rock

Breakaway500 said:


> I would like another #8 for hitting it on the head... My #9 was such a letdown,especially after that yummy Opus! Oh well...take the good with the ..not so good. If #9 was a Bolivar,it will be my first dud Bolivar.


Hay, you've been buying up every opus on the boards for a month now!! if anyone should get another #8 it should be us un-seasoned opus smokers...LOL :ss

Sorry you didn't like #9, I thought it was top notch...now #13, that was just an unlucky number for me. :tape: can't wait to see what it was.


----------



## Breakaway500

I never had a petit X before,but the Opus butter was there,and in spades!So,I figured it was either an Opus,or the next best thing. I have to say,Opus X has been 100% for me,since my first. The secret to Opus is to sip it...mmm.May have to have one tonight... 
My nine was uber-tight..I had issues with 12 too... tough to test drive a car on flat tires...


----------



## Johnny Rock

Breakaway500 said:


> I never had a petit X before,but the Opus butter was there,and in spades!So,I figured it was either an Opus,or the next best thing. I have to say,Opus X has been 100% for me,since my first. The secret to Opus is to sip it...mmm.May have to have one tonight... My nine was uber-tight..I had issues with 12 too...


Just goes to show you, #12 for me was a pleasure, not a WOW, but very good. :noidea:

Have burned #13 yet? :twitch:


----------



## Breakaway500

I have been doing only one a day,and like to light it about 9-10:00 a.m.,with a fresh palate.13's on for tomorrow. Sad to see the end so near... It's been fun! (I scored three more petit X's today...I envy all those sitting on boxes of them.. )


----------



## Breakaway500

My mistake...it was #11 I had issues with,not #12. I'm so confused.

Soo...old Grand Master Bruno..what was #9?


----------



## Johnny Rock

Breakaway500 said:


> My mistake...it was #11 I had issues with,not #12. I'm so confused.


LOL... 15 cigars, hard to keep track of...



Breakaway500 said:


> Soo...old Grand Master Bruno..what was #9


oke:opcorn:


----------



## youngstogiesmoker

Bruno! Bruno! Bruno!

I do have to say though...this is one of the most well thoughtout, and put together taste tests I've ever seen. Took awhile to get into it but that made all the difference.

This is damn near perfect. Well done Bruno!!


----------



## sirxlaughs

Sorry for the delay everyone. Busy weekend. My uncle came to our apartment for the first time with his wife and two kids (one of which is my goddaughter). So, here it is:

*Cigar #9:* Trinidad Coloniales DIC 06, Cuba










Congrats to John and Paul for getting this one. Not much to say about this one. I've always found Trinidad to be pretty mild, but I do remember them being harsh when young.

As of cigar #9:

Mark: 5/9
Dan: 2/9
John: 7/9
Paul: 5/9


----------



## thefenderbender

Outstanding thread! Well done!


----------



## tobacmon

Something told me to guess and I would have guessed the Trini. Have not had a lot of this line but need to get me a few--Thanks Bruno. 
Finishing the wright up for #10 and sending a PM for you. Sad to see this ending, some great cigars and I for one appreciate again you doing this mega review!


----------



## Breakaway500

Well,at least it was not a Bolivar.That would have really rocked my faith!


----------



## sirxlaughs

*Cigar #9

**Reviewer: Dan (Dan-Hur)*

Tasting notes: I don't usually go for smaller cigars, but this one was pretty good. Nice chocolate and coffee flavors with some earthy undertones. It reminded me of the CAO Brazilia which I've only had in the toro size.

Origin: Nicaraguan

Age: 1-2 years

Price: everyday

Rating: 8/10

Marca: Only guess that comes to mind is the CAO Brazilia carioca.

*Reviewer: Mark(Breakaway500)*

Tasting Notes: Panatela,very dark brown wrapper,veiny.Perfect draw.Charcoal at first,sweet on the tongue,black pepper,cedar,moderate smoke quantity.Perfect burn.Strenghtened from the midpoint on, holding the pepper/cedar/spice flavors,to a very nice finish. For a quick little cigar,this has loads of rich,full flavors. Very nice!

Origin: Non Cuban, nicaragua

Age: Aged

Price: n/a

Rating: 8.8

Marca: Tatuaje?

*Reviewer: John (Johnny Rock)*

Tasting notes: _Medium to full bodied little firecracker. Leather and cocoa, with a hint of black pepper on the retrohale._

Origin: _Probably a mixed filler_

Age:_ > 2 years_

Price: _Every day_

Rating: _7.5_

Marca: _My guess is a CAO of some sort; Brazillia, or MX 2 Dagger_

*Reviewer: Paul (tobacmon)*

Tasting Notes: Started this little booger off and was a little fire cracker-full of pepper and slight taste of cedar at the start followed by the same threw the middle 1/3 also. Not noticing much changes yet but I'm looking forward to seeing it do so. Not a bad morning smoke, perfect size with my morning cup of coffee so far. The last 1/3 was the same as the middle 1/3 but the pepper fell off quite a bit but was still present along with the cedar & woodsy taste.

Origin: Nicaraguan

Age: 1

Price: Everyday

Rating: 7/10

Marca: CAO Italia (?)


----------



## Breakaway500

Bruno..that ^is the review of ceegar #10.. Confusing,isn't it? Looks like all the reviewers thought non cuban..


----------



## sirxlaughs

Indeed it is. Typo on my part. Too bad we can't go back and edit posts after a certain amount of time. I hope everyone notices the typo.


----------



## sirxlaughs

*Cigar #10:* Tatuaje Petite Cazadores Reserva May 2010, Nicaragua










This is one of my (new) top short smokes. No aging needed (although, I'm curious about it), ready off the truck, etc. This is another that everyone got and Mark even got Tatuaje correct. Very nice!

As of cigar #10:

Mark: 6/10
Dan: 3/10
John: 8/10
Paul: 6/10


----------



## Breakaway500

That was a nice little,smoke,having lots of character.I have never had one,but the flavor profile reminded me of a larger Tat I had a month ago.It was not as impressive..but I am finding the little cigars concentrate more of the main flavors of a blend. With a few more years of age,it would be interesting to revisit it..


----------



## tobacmon

Wow 3 out of 4 thought it was a CAO line---Maybe my pallet needs some rest--LOL --- #11 coming to you........


----------



## sirxlaughs

*Cigar #11

**Reviewer: John (Johnny Rock)*

Tasting notes: _Medium to full bodied with lots of cocoa and leather. Sweet tobacco with a little rasins or something like that. Tastes like an Opus X, but not available in this format_

Origin: _My guess is Domican Republic_

Age:_~ 2-3 years_

Price: _Premium_

Rating: _8.5_

Marca: _My guess is Arturo Fuente something or other_

*Reviewer: Mark(Breakaway500)*

Tasting Notes: Short robusto(soon to be shorter),dark brown,smooth wrapper.Almost impossible draw.I massaged it,rolled it,squeezed it and then finally cut it back 1/2",then another 1/2". Still a tight draw,but smokeable.Very woody,charcoal..some toast.Uneven burn..low smoke quantity..I had to really fight this cigar.

Origin: Non Cuban..wild guess of DR.

Age: young

Price: n/a

Rating: 6.0

Marca: n/a

*Reviewer: Dan (Dan-Hur)*

Tasting notes: First inch has some nice chocolate and spice flavors with a bit of leather. As it went along, the chocolate fell into the background with leather and wood becoming more dominant. Not a bad cigar but it started to get too hot a little sooner than I would have expected.

Origin: Nicaraguan.

Age: 2-3 years

Price: Premium

Rating: 8/10

Marca: might be one of the Padron x000 series.

*Reviewer: Paul (tobacmon)*

Tasting Notes: First thing that I noticed was the clear draw from the start followed with some taste of earth & slight cedar. Lit this with a soft flame -Noticing a bunch of pepper from the retro hale and some leather in the background. Smooth out a bit at the ½ way mark and really enjoying this cigar. Picking up some cocoa, slight pepper and an oakie dokie taste. The ash marbling and has to be born in some very fertile soil. The last part was smooth with the Peppery, cocoa being very subtle and smooth. Curious about what this smoke is. Every cigar you have sent so far are very nice and appreciate you doing this for everyone involved-I now envy your collection.

Origin: Nicaragua

Age: 2-3

Price: Premium

Rating: 8/10

Marca: Only had a couple but will guess and say I think it was a Tat T110


----------



## sirxlaughs

tobacmon said:


> Wow 3 out of 4 thought it was a CAO line---Maybe my pallet needs some rest--LOL --- #11 coming to you........


I also thought that was interesting. I'm might have to try one of those little CAO's and see how they compare.


----------



## Breakaway500

If cigar #11 was an Opus X (blasphemy!!) I'll eat a bug!! 

Just nubbin #14...very good buzz..


----------



## sirxlaughs

Breakaway500 said:


> If cigar #11 was an Opus X (blasphemy!!) I'll eat a bug!!
> 
> Just nubbin #14..good buzz..


I won't be able to reveal it until later tonight (so I can take a photo of it), but it's not an Opus. Sorry you ended up with a plugged one. It's kind of surprising. These are (literally) new. I got the box last month, and enjoyed it so much I decided to include it. haha

Hope you guys enjoy 14. It's one of my personal favorites.


----------



## Breakaway500

Nubbin 14..oh mama!







Couldn't get it in the photo...but I got 7 rings in one puff! HA!

Yea..plugged cigars are something that happens..just like flat tires....


----------



## Johnny Rock

#14 was a very nice little smoke. I want a bunch more of these. Yum!!


----------



## fiddlegrin

From the notes on #11,
I guessing it's a Padron. Although with the rasins/Opus John picked up I have to mention a "La Aroma de Cuba" original release as a possibility.
I had one that was very Opusesque! :dr: Course it was only 1 of 10 that had it...


Rock On Yall! arty:


.


----------



## Breakaway500

Ewwww! I hate raisins! Glad I don't get any of that flavor when I smoke an Opus.. Raisins are good for one thing..making ice wine!

I think #11 was an organic cigar...what are those things called Verdadera? Made with mortar..Ha! I do wish mine had not been so messed up..


----------



## tobacmon

Twang #12 coming in a PM


----------



## sirxlaughs

*Cigar #11:* Nestor Miranda Dominicano Coffee Break Oscuro, Non-Cuban, Mixed - Dominican wrapper w/ Nicaraguan innards










Congrats again to everyone for getting that this is a non-Cuban cigar. Apologies again to Mark who got one that was plugged. Otherwise, I think this is a great little cigar that can be had in the $5 range. I also think it was Pepin's first time working Dominican tobacco. For anyone who doesn't know, this line was a collaboration between Nestor Miranda, Pepin Garcia, and Guillermo Leon (Leon Jimenes, La Aurora, etc).

As of cigar #11:

Mark: 7/11
Dan: 4/11
John: 9/11
Paul: 7/11


----------



## sirxlaughs

*Cigar #12

**Reviewer: John (Johnny Rock)*

Tasting notes: _Medium to full bodied zingy, twangy, tasty little smoke. Woody cedar, with a creamy spice retro-hale._

Origin: _Habano_

Age: _2 - 3 years_

Price: _Every day_

Rating: _8_

Marca: _My guess is a Punch, or Partagas_

*Reviewer: Mark(Breakaway500)*

Tasting Notes: petit corona-dark brown,very veiny wrapper.Hard draw,but OK. Woodsy-black pepper,light smoke quantity.Couple of touch ups.Medium strength.1/2 way,cedar and toast predominate.Still light peppery on the tongue.

Origin: Non Cuban..D.R...AF?

Age: 2yrs

Price: n/a

Rating: 8.0

Marca: AF

*Reviewer: Dan (Dan-Hur)*

Tasting notes: Nice coffee and cocoa flavor with some earthy undertones to start. At about the halfway point, I started to pick up some woody and grassy flavors along with the coffee.

Origin: Cuban

Age: 2-3 years.

Price: Everyday

Rating: 8/10

Marca: N/A.

*Reviewer: Paul (tobacmon)*

Tasting Notes: Pre-draw had a slight tug and taste of sweet grass / hay were preset. Stayed steady with taste of oak, cedar through the midway point and waiting for it to give me something to write home about. After the midway point I'm starting to get some slight pepper with a slight coffee & woodsy background. Not a big wow factor but not a bad smoke either. Also noted it starting to be a little harsh in the back of my throat when retro inhaling it.

Origin: Nicaraguan

Age: 1-2

Price: Everyday

Rating: 7/10

Marca: Not sure on this one---has me stumped!


----------



## Dan-Hur

Just sent in the last review. Can't wait to see the results. Thanks again Bruno for putting all this together.


----------



## tobacmon

Twang #13 done and sending a PM---#14 will be completed this evening and #15 in the AM


----------



## sirxlaughs

*Cigar #12:* Cohiba Maduro 5 Secretos OCT 09, Cuba










Congrats to John and Dan for getting this one. It's taken some time, but this one has come around a bit for me. I still don't think the Maduro 5 series is worth the price of admission, but it's not as bad as it was once. The first time I smoked one I thought, 5 year old tobacco my ass - must be just the one leaf that's been properly aged.

As of cigar #12:

Mark: 7/12
Dan: 5/12
John: 10/12
Paul: 7/12


----------



## bouncintiga

I think it's hilarious that the one cigar the reviewers are split on is the cohiba maduro. People have been saying for a CC this is the most NC flavored cigar and if they didn't know from looking at the band they might think it was an NC. 

great selection of cigars my friend! Looks like you put a lot of thought into this taste testing. bump for you


----------



## Breakaway500

Funny thing is I had one of these about two weeks ago. It did not impress me then,or now.Matter of fact,I have yet to have a Cohiba do anything for me. Guess I am not a Co-hee-ba man!


----------



## JGD

Breakaway500 said:


> Funny thing is I had one of these about two weeks ago. It did not impress me then,or now.Matter of fact,I have yet to have a Cohiba do anything for me. Guess I am not a Co-ee-ba man!


Mark, what Cohibas have you had? I know a few people that feel that way, I on the other hand can't get enough.


----------



## Breakaway500

About 1/2 dozen different ones..two maduros,so not really a lot of the brand,but in all honesty,they just don't have the flavor profile I prefer. I'm not saying they are bad,I just seem to prefer others. All the Bolivars (cuban) I have had have really knocked my socks off.


----------



## JGD

Breakaway500 said:


> About 1/2 dozen different ones..two maduros,so not really a lot of the brand,but in all honesty,they just don't have the flavor profile I prefer. I'm not saying they are bad,I just seem to prefer others. All the Bolivars (cuban) I have had have really knocked my socks off.


I completely understand. The flavor profile just doesn't fit everyone, and the maduros IMO have not been too great yet. Have you had a siglo ii with a few years on it yet?


----------



## Breakaway500

No,I have not. So far,the only cubans that have wowed me have been the Bolivars,and I am glad Bruno had a few in the test to confirm to myself that they do whet my whistle..
I have a box of Punch-Punches and a box of Mag 46's and have only had two out of each..and will let them rest for a while,as they did zip for me young. I wonder why the Bolivars are so yummy so young??


----------



## sirxlaughs

bouncintiga said:


> I think it's hilarious that the one cigar the reviewers are split on is the cohiba maduro. People have been saying for a CC this is the most NC flavored cigar and if they didn't know from looking at the band they might think it was an NC.
> 
> great selection of cigars my friend! Looks like you put a lot of thought into this taste testing. bump for you


Many thanks for the bump!
What's funnier is that all they basically did was change the wrapper to a maduro that's been aged 5 years. Usually, maduro wrappers are reserved for EL's when it comes to Cubans. My hypothesis is that it's b/c of the extra work and time involved in making a maduro wrapper. To me, it seems that Cuban cigars ship as fresh as possible with the hopes that the consumer will do the rest of the work (aging). I think it may even have been MRN that started referring to the "ammonia" phase as the "sick" period. Originally, the "sick" period was used to refer to a point in the cigar's aging where it becomes bland for a while. 2005 was a particular ammonia laden year for me. Even Pete Johnson mentions releasing ammonias from the tobacco for his Verite cigars. This way, they are ready to smoke and they will continue to age. It really makes me wonder about Cuba's production capabilities. I find it interesting that you don't really hear/read much about the age of the tobacco going into their regular production stuff (with the exception of the Maduro 5 wrapper).


----------



## JGD

Breakaway500 said:


> No,I have not.


Well, I will have to remedy that. PM incoming.


----------



## Breakaway500

Go ahead..make my day...


----------



## sirxlaughs

*Cigar #13

**Reviewer: John (Johnny Rock)*

Tasting notes: _Medium to full bodied . Woody but ashy and harsh. The first Bruno I did not fully enjoy._

Origin: _????? Probably with my luck, a top Habano_

Age: _Either very young, or past it's prime (might be in sick stage)_

Price: _Every day_

Rating: _6.5_

Marca: _I won't caution a guess on this one_

*Reviewer: Mark(Breakaway500)*

Tasting Notes: Corona,medium brown wrapper,veiny..nice draw.Grassy,bitter on the tongue,but not harsh.Some nuttiness and cedar.Perfect burn.Very interesting flavor delivery!Pleasant aftertaste,good smoke quantity. I found myself enjoying this cigar.

Origin: I'm going to say Cuban because I have not had an NC with this type of character.

Age: aged 2-3yrs.

Price: Premium.

Rating: 8.5

Marca: N/A

*Reviewer: Dan (Dan-Hur)*

Tasting notes: irst couple of puffs were dominated by sweet coffee and slightly leathery notes. From the first inch onward, the cigar developed a primarily grassy flavor with some slight pepper, leather and coffee undertones.

Origin: Possibly Cuban

Age: 5+

Price: Premium

Rating: 8/10

Marca: N/A.

*Reviewer: Paul (tobacmon)*

Tasting Notes:Getting the twang off the pre-draw with this smoke for sure. If not I want some more. Has a very nice draw with some slight taste of sugar and woodsy background. 1st. part was nice and mellow with some oak and cedar. The 2nd. Third. Started to pick up just a bit with the intensity of the same as the 1st. third but with hints of leather. I'm enjoying this one. Hated to see the last 1/3rd. come but was very steady from the start with slight taste of cocoa and coffee and still taste something sweet in the background. The burn was great and makes me thinking it was well aged.

Origin:Cuba

Age: 3-4

Price: Premium

Rating:9/10

Marca: I'm thinking a Monte but would not be surprised if it were a Party or HDM for some reason.


----------



## sirxlaughs

Breakaway500 said:


> Go ahead..make my day...


LoL.... nice photo...

A little aside on #13. This is another example of varying palates. One of the things I will do once this is all done is compile the data including lowest, highest, and average ratings for each cigar.


----------



## Slowpokebill

This has been an interesting thread to follow. Thanks to those that put in all the effort...well done.


----------



## Breakaway500

We all guesses cuban,but not all of us liked it. It had a very interesting flavor delivery that seasoned your palate at first,and then played with you..a little of this,a little of that. It was very tricky..but I liked it! (not as much as #14,though..)


----------



## Johnny Rock

# 15 done and in the books. Can't wait to see what that was...Sorry this little adventure has to come to an end. I really enjoyed participating in this unprecedented taste test. 

Bruno, you obviously have a very envious, well rounded stash , and you generosity is unsurpassed. Thanks for sharing some of your best smokes with us, and putting together the "Search for Twang" I hope we all found what we were looking for, I know I did.

Anxiously awaiting the last of the results and your overall impression of how the testing went. All my best, you are a true BOTL.

Johnny Rock :ss


----------



## tobacmon

Breakaway500 said:


> Funny thing is I had one of these about two weeks ago. *It did not impress me then,or now.Matter of fact,I have yet to have a Cohiba do anything for me. Guess I am not a Co-hee-ba man!*


*Funny thing is the only ones that I really enjoy are the Esplendidos ( too much $$$) & Siglo and like you did not get much out all the others.
*



JGD said:


> I completely understand. *The flavor profile just doesn't fit everyone, and the maduros IMO have not been too great yet.* Have you had a siglo ii with a few years on it yet?


*
Good point -- this is probably why I guessed the Siglo that Bruno had in this review dead on---*


----------



## tobacmon

*PM sent for twang #14 *--------------- #15 will be in the AM to finish up. Hope to have it posted in the PM when I get home.


----------



## sirxlaughs

*Cigar #13:* Por Larranaga Petit Coronas FEB 07, Cuba










Congrats to everyone for getting this one! Sorry that you didn't enjoy it, John. I like how you guessed it correctly anyway. LoL 
The first time I had one was in a trade. I found them so different and good compared to my staple Boli PC that I had to get my own cab. I find them milder and sweeter than the Bolivar. It's always nice to have variety.


----------



## sirxlaughs

*Cigar #14

**Reviewer: John (Johnny Rock)*

Tasting notes: _Medium bodied . Plenty of zesty twang. Hints of sweet leather and nutty cocoa. Big cigar taste in a small format._

Origin: _Partagas factory, Habana, Cuba_

Age: _These are great ROTT but this one might be a little older, but less that 2 yrs._

Price: _Every day_

Rating: _8_

Marca: _Pretty confident this is a_ _Party Short_

*Reviewer: Mark(Breakaway500)*

Tasting Notes: petit corona-meduim brown,smooth wrapper.Perfect draw. Toasty,light black pepper at first.Nutmeg..barley malt on my tongue.Very nice.Medium strength,good smoke quantity.Perfect burn.Leathery 1/2 way..very classy cigar.Me likey!

Origin: Cuban

Age: aged 2yrs

Price: Premium

Rating: 9.2

Marca: another Bolivar?

*Reviewer: Dan (Dan-Hur)*

Tasting notes: fired it up and was greeted with some pleasant vanilla and wood flavors that continued on throughout the smoke. At about the halfway point, it started to get really peppery, but not unpleasantly so. The construction seemed solid but it was windy as hell in my area today so the ash, while resilient, didn't last long.

Origin: Possibly Dominican

Age: 1-2 years

Price: premium

Rating: 8/10

Marca: N/A.

*Reviewer: Paul (tobacmon)*

Tasting Notes: This smoke was a first for me I guarantee. The taste and flavors from the start were unusual to me. I can taste the pepper, leather combination but there is something else that seems to be what everyone says is flowery I guess is the best word I can think of threw the first 1/3rd. The 2nd. 1/3rd. however was a different story, it began to loose the flowery taste (I really was not fond of) and pick up with some of my favorites that include cedar, slight pepper and a bit of leather. This is where I made my decision on the birth of this smoke. I'm starting to enjoy it now. The intensity picked up a bit but smooth out also. The final 1/3rd. was more of the same as the middle part but had a bit more of a kick to it. This will probably be an inexpensive smoke and catch me by surprise. I liked it!

Origin: ISOM

Age: 2-3

Price: Going out on the limb and say everyday

Rating: 8/10

Marca: SLR ???


----------



## sirxlaughs

Forgot to post:

As of cigar #13:

Mark: 8/13
Dan: 6/13
John: 11/13
Paul: 8/13


----------



## tobacmon

sirxlaughs said:


> *Cigar #13:* Por Larranaga Petit Coronas FEB 07, Cuba
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Congrats to everyone for getting this one! Sorry that you didn't enjoy it, John. I like how you guessed it correctly anyway. LoL
> The first time I had one was in a trade. I found them so different and good compared to my staple Boli PC that I had to get my own cab. I find them milder and sweeter than the Bolivar. It's always nice to have variety.


I guess the reason I was not sure of the line was because I have only had a few of these and was not a big fan when I smoked the youngsters. Age has its privileges I guess.arty:


----------



## sirxlaughs

*Cigar #14:* Illusione Epernay Le Petit(no date, but I got them a few months ago), Nicaragua










From what I've read of this cigar, it was done to be something totally different from the (possibly) overpowering main line. It was blended for the "European" palate (whatever that means), and to be able to be paired with champagne. Lucky me for being Portuguese, I guess? The biggest (and only) problem with them is that they are so f-in expensive. They only come in cabs of 50 and this little 4.5" x 44 cigar goes for around $6+. To me, that just seems like quite a lot of money for such a small cigar. I'll give it to Giolito, though. This line is great and maybe there's something to the tobacco used, production costs, etc that make it priced as such to maintain a decent profit margin. For anyone who's found the main line overpowering, or maybe just likes a change of pace, these cigars are terrific. They have a very "old school" taste to me. A nice, smooth, sweet, floral, etc cigar with enough kick to it to let you know you're still smoking an Illusione.
I'm not so surprised that people missed this one, but I am surprised that our least experienced taster got that it wasn't Cuban. Congrats Dan on getting this one!

As of cigar #14:

Mark: 8/14
Dan: 7/14
John: 11/14
Paul: 8/14


----------



## LosingSleep

sirxlaughs said:


> *Cigar #14:* Illusione Epernay Le Petit(no date, but I got them a few months ago), Nicaragua
> 
> From what I've read of this cigar, it was done to be something totally different from the (possibly) overpowering main line. It was blended for the "European" palate (whatever that means), and to be able to be paired with champagne. Lucky me for being Portuguese, I guess? The biggest (and only) problem with them is that they are so f-in expensive. They only come in cabs of 50 and this little 4.5" x 44 cigar goes for around $6+. To me, that just seems like quite a lot of money for such a small cigar. I'll give it to Giolito, though. This line is great and maybe there's something to the tobacco used, production costs, etc that make it priced as such to maintain a decent profit margin. For anyone who's found the main line overpowering, or maybe just likes a change of pace, these cigars are terrific. They have a very "old school" taste to me. A nice, smooth, sweet, floral, etc cigar with enough kick to it to let you know you're still smoking an Illusione.
> I'm not so surprised that people missed this one, but I am surprised that our least experienced taster got that it wasn't Cuban. Congrats Dan on getting this one!
> 
> As of cigar #14:
> 
> Mark: 8/14
> Dan: 7/14
> John: 11/14
> Paul: 8/14


Wow, and the guys that guessed Cuban were very sure of themselves. I'll have to head over to the B&M and grab a few. Curious to see if I have the same experience.

Great thread! Very entertaining.


----------



## Breakaway500

Illusion indeed! If not for this test,I would never have found this little jewel. Bruno,these also come in larger sizes.I believe I will get a 5 pack of each to sample..... OOhh..they have a sampler!


----------



## Dan-Hur

Man, I when I saw the other reviewers saying Cuban, I was sure they were right.


----------



## Breakaway500

Maybe the blender is importing cuban tobacco to make them.....

If nothing else,this experiment has shown me that it is the final taste alone that defines a cigar,and not its origin. 
Also,small ring gauge cigars are not to be avoided! They can be as amazing as anything larger.

By the way,what does ISOM mean?


----------



## Slowpokebill

Breakaway500 said:


> Maybe the blender is importing cuban tobacco to make them.....
> 
> If nothing else,this experiment has shown me that it is the final taste alone that defines a cigar,and not its origin.
> Also,small ring gauge cigars are not to be avoided! They can be as amazing as anything larger.
> 
> By the way,what does ISOM mean?


ISOM...Island South of Miami

More and more these days I find I'm smoking smaller ring gauge sticks again. The number 14 reviews have moved the Illusione Epernay to the top of my try it list.


----------



## bouncintiga

this selection amazes me as the reviews keep coming in. can't wait til my 08 cab of plpc's is finally good.


----------



## Breakaway500

Damn..no Epernay petits in stock. I'll try a couple of the other sizes in 10 packs..I guess the word is out...


----------



## Johnny Rock

Curses, foiled again!!! 

That little Illusion is a sweet little number.

@ Mark if you find some let me know, gotta have some. :ss


----------



## Chris R

These reviews have been great! Thanks for doing them bruno!

The epernay is one of my favorite cigars. I find it to have a great balance of flavors unlike a lot of other NCs.


----------



## sirxlaughs

Hey, guys. I'm kind of jacking my own thread, but I started a box split on the Epernay for anyone interested.


----------



## Breakaway500

If they are the Petits,I'm in!! They dind't even have full boxes...


----------



## JGD

sirxlaughs said:


> Hey, guys. I'm kind of jacking my own thread, but I started a box split on the Epernay for anyone interested.


http://www.cigarforums.net/forums/vb/splits-group-buys/278326-illusione-epernay-le-petit.html


----------



## Johnny Rock

As always, I'm too little too late.

Enjoy guys!!! :ss


----------



## tobacmon

*Twang #15--Bonus PM sent---*

Bruno,
I am truly humbled by your decision to do this for all involved. I envy your selection and collection and very much appreciate you choosing me as one of your reviewers. You have been a gracious host and I'm sure I speak for everyone involved and reading this thread " Thanks Very Much" for doing this!


----------



## sirxlaughs

tobacmon said:


> *Twang #15--Bonus PM sent---*
> 
> Bruno,
> I am truly humbled by your decision to do this for all involved. I envy your selection and collection and very much appreciate you choosing me as one of your reviewers. You have been a gracious host and I'm sure I speak for everyone involved and reading this thread " Thanks Very Much" for doing this!


You're very welcome and it was my pleasure. I'm glad everyone enjoyed it as I have enjoyed reading all your reviews.
And now for the grand finale!


----------



## sirxlaughs

*Cigar #15 - Bonus Round

**Reviewer: Dan (Dan-Hur)*

Tasting notes: opens up with some nice coffee and wood notes with hints of grass. Grass stays prominent but the coffee falls into the background and some leather starts to come into play. Got a little peppery toward the end and started to burn a little too hot for me.

Origin: might be Cuban.

Age: 3+ years

Price: premium

Rating: 7.5/10

Marca: N/A

*Reviewer: Mark(Breakaway500)*

Tasting Notes: petit corona-box pressed,light brown,very veiny wrapper.Good draw,grassy-bitter on the tongue.Good burn.Mild.Earthy,cedary..

Origin: Cuban

Age: aged...2yrs

Price: N/A

Rating: 8.2

Marca: H.Upmann?

*Reviewer: John (Johnny Rock)*

Tasting notes: _Strange little smoke, the first inch tasted like a unfiltered cigarette, at the half way point some citrus and ashy kind of lettuce flavor, not sure what to make of this odd little smoke. Had to put it down about halfway, my mouth was puckering a bit too much. The ash looked like a machine rolled American cigar with homogenized tobacco product filler, but the cigar was toothy looking with plenty of bumps and veins._

Origin: _Somewhere on the streets of a Caribbean, or New York Island. Possibly Elizabeth, New Jersey _

Age: _About a week_

Price: _Budget, might have been free???_

Rating: _Unsmokeable, most probable dog rocket status _

Marca: _Casa del Juan, or Joe...lol_

_Sorry about the lousy review for the bonus round, but I could just not smoke it. Not trying to insult, only inject a little humor. Thank you very much for the opportunity to participate in this great, historic taste test_

*Reviewer: Paul (tobacmon)*

Tasting Notes: Not much from the pre-draw except some maybe dirt & earthy taste. The draw was clear and I lit er-up. Slight taste of sugar followed up with some earth and some oak but not intense. Very subtle smoke threw the midway point nothing popping out at me. Not a bad smoke but a bit on the mild side for me. Smooth taste of cedar and earth is all I got from this one. Either it has many years on it or it's not my cup of tea or coffee. I did nub it in anticipation of getting a surprise but I got nothing. Again, not a bad smoke but too mild for me. Out of all the smokes this one was the hardest to pin point its origin. With that said I'm going with what this reviews were all about---

Origin: Not really getting a Twang but that might be because there are a few years this was sitting around. -I'll go with the ISOM. Final answer!

Age: 4-6

Price: Budget

Rating: 7/10

Marca: N/A


----------



## tobacmon

Oh the pain----can't wait for the final tally--If I did 50% I'd be a happy camper!


----------



## tobacmon

I remember my first that was gifted to me from My ole pal BaBa when they first arrived on scene (Thanks Bill) and thought what a great smoke. I enjoy the larger rings sizes and must say it left me with the same impression as it did to the other reviewers.:bowdown:



Breakaway500 said:


> Illusion indeed! If not for this test,I would never have found this little jewel. Bruno,these also come in larger sizes.I believe I will get a 5 pack of each to sample..... OOhh..they have a sampler!


----------



## sirxlaughs

*Cigar #15 - Bonus Round:* Blackstone Kings circa 1950's, American made from all Cuban tobacco



















Let see if this link will work. Something interesting I found through a Google search.

So, there you have it. The final cigar. It seems that everyone pretty much just guessed it. haha. John's review was quite entertaining, as this cigar really didn't fit his palate at all. As I mentioned to John in a PM, I included this cigar as an experience. We all read about how cigars can potentially age for decades, if not indefinitely. So, when I saw an opportunity to purchase cigars as old as my father, I took it. Suffice to say, he, my brother, and I were all underwhelmed by the experience. As my own cigars went through their own aging I also began to notice that, to my palate, there is such a thing as "too much" age. While there isn't a set number of years (since it's all dependent on the tobacco and how it is stored), I did notice that 5 or so is usually enough for me.

I want to (yet again) thank all the tasters for participating. I hope you all enjoyed the selection and were able to take something positive from all of it. One of my favorite mottos when it comes to cigars has been "Smoke the cigar, not the label."

This whole thing is obviously open for discussion for anyone wants to give their thoughts and such. I'm also going to be compiling all the data into one concise post.

Thanks very much, everyone!

As of cigar #15:

Mark: 9/15
Dan: 8/15
John: 11/15
Paul: 9/15


----------



## JGD

Wow. Paul's review seemed to be spot on with the hint of twang that diminished with age. Color me impressed!


----------



## Breakaway500

Aged 60 years.Who could have guessed?? It wasn't terrible..it just smoked kinda flat..very mild.

We actually all finished very close together.A cigar one way or the other would have made it quite even.

I believe the more experenced the palate,the easier it becomes to pick out certain flavor profiles. If I had never had a Bolivar or an Opus X,I am sure I would not have been able to name them specifically. I was just lucky with the Tat. And in all honesty,all the others were a guess,based on my limited experience with both CC and NCs. 

In summation,I have to say there is no specific "twang" to all CCs, just as all NCs have no specific taste profile. Each cigar is unique to itself. Just like people..


----------



## Dan-Hur

Wow, a fifty plus cigar?! That's quite a curve ball. I've read about pre-embargo Cuban cigars being legal for purchase, but I always figured that a cigar that old, even if stored properly, would have lost its flavor. This one wasn't bad but I wonder how it would compare to a "fresh" one. Bruno, thanks again for putting this together especially for that last one as it definitely was an experience.


----------



## bouncintiga

wow if this thread isn't cool i don't know what is.


----------



## asmartbull

Breakaway500 said:


> Aged 60 years.Who could have guessed?? It wasn't terrible..it just smoked kinda flat..very mild.
> 
> We actually all finished very close together.A cigar one way or the other would have made it quite even.
> 
> I believe the more experenced the palate,the easier it becomes to pick out certain flavor profiles. If I had never had a Bolivar or an Opus X,I am sure I would not have been able to name them specifically. I was just lucky with the Tat. And in all honesty,all the others were a guess,based on my limited experience with both CC and NCs.
> 
> In summation,I have to say there is no specific "twang" to all CCs, just as all NCs have no specific taste profile. Each cigar is unique to itself. Just like people..


I disagree,,,respectfully....
If the testers mostly smoked habanos, I believe it would be EASY to tell what wasn't a Cuban. They may not be able to tell you what Marca it was, but I think one could identify country of origin. To me, that is the cuban twang.


----------



## sirxlaughs

Breakaway500 said:


> Aged 60 years.Who could have guessed?? It wasn't terrible..it just smoked kinda flat..very mild.
> 
> We actually all finished very close together.A cigar one way or the other would have made it quite even.
> 
> I believe the more experenced the palate,the easier it becomes to pick out certain flavor profiles. If I had never had a Bolivar or an Opus X,I am sure I would not have been able to name them specifically. I was just lucky with the Tat. And in all honesty,all the others were a guess,based on my limited experience with both CC and NCs.
> 
> In summation,I have to say there is no specific "twang" to all CCs, just as all NCs have no specific taste profile. Each cigar is unique to itself. Just like people..


I gotta say that I agree. While there will always be similarities when you're using the same or similar tobacco (like how most of the tobacco in the high end Cuban brands use tobacco from the same regions), there is so much that goes into blending a cigar. Add all of that to all of the things that can affect our individual palates. Then, add that to the fact that not all palates and taste preferences are the same. The original 6 Tatuaje brown labels all have their own vitola-specific blends, but they all have a similar taste. Padron cigars are Nicaraguan puros, but taste nothing like an Illusione.


----------



## sirxlaughs

asmartbull said:


> I disagree,,,respectfully....
> If the testers mostly smoked habanos, I believe it would be EASY to tell what wasn't a Cuban. They may not be able to tell you what Marca it was, but I think one could identify country of origin. To me, that is the cuban twang.


It's been said and done by many others. Look up Moki's test with Fredster, for example. Blind tasting is never easy, no matter how it may seem to those of us on the outside looking in. From all the blind tasting I've seen, and people I've spoken to, it points more to being able to associate tastes with marcas and then with countries. For example, I think that if a someone smoked exclusively Partagas and nothing else, that person would not be able to identify the country of origin if I handed him something different. If you don't mind my asking, what flavor/taste do you identify "twang" as being?

I ask b/c I found it interesting that John noticed a citrus taste in the final cigar even though he could not finish it. Through my own research (and I could always be wrong), the word "twang" was originally used to describe a citrusy, tart taste found in many Cuban cigars. This taste is neither found in all Cuban cigars nor is it exclusive to Cuban grown tobacco anymore. As the word became "viral" and spread throughout the cigar world, it lost it's original meaning. People started using it as a "nothing" word. They would smoke something Cuban that tasted Cuban, smelled Cuban, etc, therefore, it must be "twangy". One of my original points was, if "twang" is a real flavor and is exclusively present in Cuban tobacco, why didn't all the tasting notes reflect this? After I exposed the first few Cuban cigars in the test, the taste profiles were also exposed. So, why wasn't every Cuban and non-Cuban identified with 100% accuracy afterwards? Mark has already admitted that many times, he was purely guessing. Only our least experienced taster was able to identify the Illusione as non-Cuban, but still couldn't identify the "Nicaraguan taste."

http://blog.winemag.com/editors/2008/02/25/blind-tasting-napa-cabernet-er-syrah/

There's an example of how even professional wine tasters couldn't identify Syrah.


----------



## bouncintiga

love the thread and the work that's been put in so not to sound like a debbie downer but that link for the syrah wine showed me more how blind tastings are not the way to go about testing than anything else.


----------



## Breakaway500

This quote from the wine tasting blind testing link about sums it up for me:

"This exercise in blind tasting reminded me how much I still don’t know. It also provoked me into thinking much more deeply, than a non-blind tasting would have."

Until you have actually do one of these blind cigar taste tests,you only think you know what you know...


----------



## fuente~fuente

This might be the most intriguing thread I've seen here on PUFF.

Thanks to Bruno for making this thread possible & unselfishly sharing parts of his hard earned collection, & all the testers for your time & thoughts. :yo:


----------



## sirxlaughs

Just some data from the entire series broken down to pure numbers if anyone (like myself) is interested.
Cigar Rankings (for those who are curious):

*by Lowest rating:*

1. Don Pepin Imperiales Apr 07, non-Cuban, Nicaragua - *8*
1. L'Esprit de Verite 2008 Vintage, non-Cuban, Nicaragua - *8*
1. Illusione Epernay Le Petit, non-Cuban, Nicaraguan - *8*
2. Bolivar Short Bolivar (Asian Pacific Regional Release) AGO(August) 08, Cuban - *7.5*
2. Cohiba Siglo VI, NOV 04, Cuban - *7.5*
3. Bolivar Gold Medal Sep 07, Cuban - *7*
3. Avo LE 07, non-Cuban, Dominican - *7*
3. Opus X Petite Lancero purchased in 2008 (unsure if actual age), non-Cuban, Dominican Republic - *7*
3. Tatuaje Petite Cazadores Reserva May 2010, non-Cuban, Nicaraguan - *7*
3. Cohiba Maduro 5 Secretos OCT 09, Cuban - *7*
3-4. H. Upmann Monarchs A/T Jun 03, Cuban - *6-7*
4. Trinidad Coloniales DIC 06, Cuban - *6.5*
4. Por Larranaga Petit Coronas FEB 07, Cuban - *6.5*
5. Nestor Miranda Dominicano Coffee Break Oscuro, Non-Cuban, Mixed - Dominican wrapper w/ Nicaraguan innards - *6*
6. Blackstone Kings circa 1950's, American made from Cuban tobacco - *0*

*by Highest rating:*

1. Bolivar Short Bolivar (Asian Pacific Regional Release) AGO(August) 08, Cuban - *9.6*
1. Opus X Petite Lancero purchased in 2008 (unsure if actual age), non-Cuban, Dominican Republic - *9.6*
2. Bolivar Gold Medal Sep 07, Cuban - *9.25*
3. Illusione Epernay Le Petit(no date, but I got them a few months ago), non-Cuban, Nicaraguan - *9.2*
4. H. Upmann Monarchs A/T Jun 03, Cuban - *9*
4. Avo LE 07, non-Cuban, Dominican - *9*
4. Don Pepin Blue Imperiales APR 2007, non-Cuban, Nicaraguan - *9*
4. L'Esprit de Verite 2008 Vintage, non-Cuban, Nicaragua - *9*
4. Trinidad Coloniales DIC 06, Cuban - *9*
4. Por Larranaga Petit Coronas FEB 07, Cuban - *9*
5. Tatuaje Petite Cazadores Reserva May 2010, non-Cuban, Nicaraguan - *8.8*
6. Nestor Miranda Dominicano Coffee Break Oscuro, Non-Cuban, Mixed - Dominican wrapper w/ Nicaraguan innards - *8.5*
7. Blackstone Kings circa 1950's, American made from Cuban tobacco - *8.2*
8. Cohiba Siglo VI, NOV 04, Cuban - *8*
8. Cohiba Maduro 5 Secretos OCT 09, Cuban - *8*

*by Overall rating:*

1. L'Esprit de Verite 2008 Vintage, non-Cuban, Nicaragua - *8.75*
2. Don Pepin Blue Imperiales APR 2007, non-Cuban, Nicaraguan - *8.45*
3. Illusione Epernay Le Petit(no date, but I got them a few months ago), non-Cuban, Nicaraguan - *8.3*
4. Bolivar Short Bolivar (Asian Pacific Regional Release) AGO(August) 08, Cuban - *8.275*
5. H. Upmann Monarchs A/T Jun 03, Cuban - *8-8.25*
6. Opus X Petite Lancero purchased in 2008 (unsure if actual age), non-Cuban, Dominican Republic - *8.025*
7. Por Larranaga Petit Coronas FEB 07, Cuban - 8
8. Bolivar Gold Medal Sep 07, Cuban - *7.9375*
8. Avo LE 07, non-Cuban, Dominican - *7.9375*
9. Trinidad Coloniales DIC 06, Cuban - *7.875*
10. Tatuaje Petite Cazadores Reserva May 2010, non-Cuban, Nicaraguan - *7.825*
11. Cohiba Siglo VI, NOV 04, Cuban - *7.775*
12. Cohiba Maduro 5 Secretos OCT 09, Cuban - *7.75*
13. Nestor Miranda Dominicano Coffee Break Oscuro, Non-Cuban, Mixed - Dominican wrapper w/ Nicaraguan innards - *7.625*
14. Blackstone Kings circa 1950's, American made from Cuban tobacco - *5.675*


----------



## Breakaway500

I find it very interesting to see the Bolivar short Bolivar second on the worst list rating,and first on the best rating list!!

The overall (average scored) favorite 3 cigars were ALL non cuban.


----------



## sirxlaughs

Breakaway500 said:


> I find it very interesting to see the Bolivar short Bolivar second on the worst list rating,and first on the best rating list!!
> 
> The overall (average scored) favorite 3 cigars were ALL non cuban.


I might have to clarify the lowest rating list. It's listed from highest to lowest, of the lowest rating given (does that make sense?). 
Yea, the overalls show that there were certain cigars that had more consistent ratings from reviewer to reviewer. There are other cigars with bigger differences, which (to me) shows either consistency issues across cigars (from the same boxes, no less) or differences in people's palates and preferences. The Por Larranaga, for example had a lowest rating of 6.5 and a high of 9. The top 3 overalls didn't rate lower than an 8 from anyone.


----------



## Slowpokebill

Another number that would be interesting to me is how the origin voting went per cigar...cuban or NC.


----------



## sirxlaughs

Do you mean how many correct answers there were for each cigar? Like this?:

1. H. Upmann Monarchs A/T Jun 03, Cuban - *1/4*
2. Bolivar Gold Medal Sep 07, Cuban - *2/4*
3. Avo LE 07, non-Cuban, Dominican - *0/4*
4. Bolivar Short Bolivar AGO 08, Cuban - *3/4*
5. Don Pepin Blue Imperiales APR 2007, non-Cuban, Nicaraguan - *4/4*
6. L'Esprit de Verite 2008 Vintage, non-Cuban, Nicaragua - *1/4*
7. Cohiba Siglo VI, NOV 04, Cuban - *4/4*
8. Opus X Petite Lancero ~2008, non-Cuban, Dominican - *2/4*
9. Trinidad Coloniales DIC 06, Cuba - *2/4*
10. Tatuaje Petite Cazadores Reserva May 2010, Nicaragua - *4/4*
11. Nestor Miranda Dominicano Coffee Break Oscuro, Non-Cuban, Mixed - Dominican wrapper w/ Nicaraguan innards - *4/4*
12. Cohiba Maduro 5 Secretos OCT 09, Cuba - *2/4*
13. Por Larranaga Petit Coronas FEB 07, Cuba - *4/4*
14. Illusione Epernay Le Petit, non-Cuban, Nicaragua - *1/4*
15. Blackstone Kings circa 1950's, American made from Cuban tobacco - *3/4*


----------



## Breakaway500

So,only twice did every reviewer agree on a cuban cigar being of cuban origin. 

..and three times all 4 reviewers agreed on an NC being NC.

...yet once...all 4 reviewers thought an NC was a Cuban.



Interesting....


----------



## bouncintiga

looks like from the overall ratings, nicaragua is the place to go for cigars with the top three, followed by two cubans.

I guess that means everyone should go buy nicaraguan cigars and leave those inferior cubans alone :amen:


----------



## Breakaway500

Hmm...I would not come to that conclusion..however,it does put some holes in the "Cuban cigars are the only GOOD cigars" exclamation...


----------



## Johnny Rock

Well the Avo sure had me fooled, I was positive that was a CC. I also think that for me, it was the most pleasurable stick out of the bunch. Bruno said that it had morphed into a smoke he didn't recognize after awhile, and that's why I thought someone might have pulled the old switch-a-roo on him...LOL

Other surprises for me were both of the Cohiba CC's, I liked them both, but neither one WOWed me.

That little Illusione was a sweet little stick that had CC all over it IMO, almost miffed me that it wasn't...hahaha!!!

Oh well, back to the mundane for now. Like Mark said: _"Until you have actually do one of these blind cigar taste tests,you only think you know what you know"_

It was a fun and exciting couple of weeks....looking forward to the next mystery smoke, waiting for the test results and seeing what everyone else thought.

Glad to be part of this. Many thanks to Bruno, and all of the other testers and contributors of this thread.


----------



## Arnie

This is a great thread.

Good job Bruno for putting this together.

Even better job by the 4 participants who put themselves out on a limb not knowing what they were going to have to review and guess on. Kudos to our intrepid smokers!!

Bruno, as I understand it, you were trying to debunk the theory of Twang with this thread, no? I wonder if you changed anyone's mind? We need a show of hands. Anyone's mind changed by the results?

Also, wouldn't it be interesting to find a chemist on Puff who could analyze cigars from Cuba, and Dominican, Nicaraguan and Honduran puros? That way we could find out if there are any chemical compounds that are in consistently higher proportion in Cubans than other cigars. That might give us a clue about the elusive, mysterious Twang. 

Anyway, great job by all involved!!


----------



## sirxlaughs

bouncintiga said:


> looks like from the overall ratings, nicaragua is the place to go for cigars with the top three, followed by two cubans.
> 
> I guess that means everyone should go buy nicaraguan cigars and leave those inferior cubans alone :amen:


Why leave them alone? Personal taste plays a big factor, as well as what you're in the mood for. I'm not always in the mood for a Tatuaje.... well.... maybe I am. Regardless, those results only reflect the selection and palate of this particular test. Also, the two top rated cigars from the highest rating list are from Cuba and D.R. With the huge variety of cigars in the world, I think (if anything) this test just shows that there are great cigars to be had from all over. 
I also realize that you may just have been sarcastic. In which case, disregard my rant. :lol:


----------



## sirxlaughs

Johnny Rock said:


> Well the Avo sure had me fooled, I was positive that was a CC. I also think that for me, it was the most pleasurable stick out of the bunch. Bruno said that it had morphed into a smoke he didn't recognize after awhile, and that's why I thought someone might have pulled the old switch-a-roo on him...LOL
> 
> Other surprises for me were both of the Cohiba CC's, I liked them both, but neither one WOWed me.
> 
> That little Illusione was a sweet little stick that had CC all over it IMO, almost miffed me that it wasn't...hahaha!!!
> 
> Oh well, back to the mundane for now. Like Mark said: _"Until you have actually do one of these blind cigar taste tests,you only think you know what you know"_
> 
> It was a fun and exciting couple of weeks....looking forward to the next mystery smoke, waiting for the test results and seeing what everyone else thought.
> 
> Glad to be part of this. Many thanks to Bruno, and all of the other testers and contributors of this thread.


It was my pleasure!
Yea, that Avo was a purchase that I actually regretted for the first two years I had them. The flavor profile was ok, but they were just so harsh. Think of a young, tannic wine. I kept wondering if they'd ever come around. Then, I had that one that just blew me away and my regret turned into relief and happiness that I didn't pawn the box off. haha
You may also want to try Cabaiguan, if you never have. The ones I have didn't make it into the test, but they are also quite good and "Cuban-esque". :lol:


----------



## Johnny Rock

Arnie said:


> This is a great thread.
> 
> Good job Bruno for putting this together.
> 
> Bruno, as I understand it, you were trying to debunk the theory of Twang with this thread, no? I wonder if you changed any one's mind? We need a show of hands. Any one's mind changed by the results?
> 
> Anyway, great job by all involved!!


I for one only now believe that some NC cigars besides CC's have a certain "Twang" to them. It is not difficult to describe the twang for me. I taste it as a vegetative zing which can come from many different flavors. The Zing/twang is an after taste that sticks with your palette that I associate with fruit, grass or other vegetable type (organic) tastes.

Twang is not Earth, Barnyard, Leather, Coffee, Mocha, Pepper, Molasses or other "Dark" tastes.

The Zing or Twang to me is a real pick-me-up when smoking a cigar and easily identifiable. More CC's than NC' have the Twang thing going on. Still, the Twang is is a flavor feature in a cigar that I much appreciate and savor.


----------



## Arnie

Johnny Rock said:


> I for one only now believe that some NC cigars besides CC's have a certain "Twang" to them. It is not difficult to describe the twang for me. I taste it as a vegetative zing which can come from many different flavors. The Zing/twang is an after taste that sticks with your palette that I associate with fruit, grass or other vegetable type (organic) tastes.
> 
> Twang is not Earth, Barnyard, Leather, Coffee, Mocha, Pepper, Molasses or other "Dark" tastes.
> 
> The Zing or Twang to me is a real pick-me-up when smoking a cigar and easily identifiable. More CC's than NC' have the Twang thing going on. Still, the Twang is is a flavor feature in a cigar that I much appreciate and savor.


Thanks John. That's a thoughtful answer.

Can I use Zing/Twang in my profile somewhere? I like it!


----------



## Dan-Hur

I'm not prepared to rule out "twang" given my own limited experience, but I will say this: while I enjoyed many of the Cuban cigars, the H. Upmann in particular, none of them would replace my current NC favorites. I can't say I tasted twang exactly, but all the ones I thought were Cuban(including the AVO) had a grassy flavor that I hadn't experienced before. This is what I assumed was twang, but then again, I didn't pick up any of it in the Upmann.


----------



## sirxlaughs

Dan-Hur said:


> I'm not prepared to rule out "twang" given my own limited experience, but I will say this: while I enjoyed many of the Cuban cigars, the H. Upmann in particular, none of them would replace my current NC favorites. I can't say I tasted twang exactly, but all the ones I thought were Cuban(including the AVO) had a grassy flavor that I hadn't experienced before. This is what I assumed was twang, but then again, I didn't pick up any of it in the Upmann.


What're your current favorites?


----------



## Dan-Hur

sirxlaughs said:


> What're your current favorites?


Fuente Hemingway, HdM Excalibur Prensado Oscuro, CAO Italia and Brazilia and the Man O' War lines are my current favorites. With the exception of the Hemingway, availability is a pretty big factor in my choices. While I really enjoyed the Monarch, the price and aging factor rule them out as something I'd be able to regularly enjoy. I'm not trying to down on Cubans or anything, I'm just reacting to the way some people regard NCs as immediately inferior. It's hard for me to believe that when I've enjoyed a wide range of NCs.


----------



## marked

This has been a very interesting thread to read through. Kudos to Bruno for hosting it and sharing his collection, and thanks to the guys that put themselves out there to do the reviews. 

The regulars at my B&M do this all the time. A cigar is picked from the walk-in, stripped of it's bands, and given to someone to determine which cigar it is. They're not allowed in the walk-in while they're smoking, and they're supposed to avoid studying the cigar as much as possible. Obviously, it's much easier when you know the basic stock of the walk-in, but it's still a tough task.


----------



## tobacmon

JGD said:


> *Wow. Paul's review seemed to be spot on with the hint of twang that diminished with age. Color me impressed!*


Thanks for the comment Jim -- Something told me this would be the kicker. I smoked a Hoyo de Monterey that was over 16 years and thought from the mellow taste #15 was giving me it was indeed something that was from years back. really impressive!

*Thanks again Bruno--you da mon*~!


----------



## Herf N Turf

I waited around for this thing to come to fruition and I must say, HERE HERE! This is one of the best threads in recent memory and reminiscent of threads gone by.

Thanks for putting this together, Bruno, and for providing us with such a great read.:yo:


----------



## sirxlaughs

Herf N Turf said:


> I waited around for this thing to come to fruition and I must say, HERE HERE! This is one of the best threads in recent memory and reminiscent of threads gone by.
> 
> Thanks for putting this together, Bruno, and for providing us with such a great read.:yo:


Thanks for the kind words. It was my pleasure. I'm glad everyone (that I know of) enjoyed it, and that all the tasters (hopefully) enjoyed the selection. :cb


----------



## Mutombo

Great thread, just read through the whole thing in one sitting! Thanks for putting it together!


----------



## Tritones

Is it too late to volunteer for this? ound:

Seriously - great thread. I enjoyed every bit of it. Makes me about triply grateful to Mark for that Epernay. It will definitely have to catch fire soon!


----------



## Breakaway500

Ahh.Epernay..just torched one up today. I love them! The petits should be in stock next week...I'm getting a full box.


----------



## Johnny Rock

Just read through the entire thread again. It was great fun, and a huge eye opener for me.

Hats off to Bruno and the tasting crew for a truly memorable experience.


----------



## jedipastor

This is a frickin' awesome thread! Seriously, great job to everybody. I've wanted to either participate in or host something like this for a while. Really cool idea.

To me, it just goes to show that whether you tend to prefer Cubans or non-Cubans, you can enjoy cigars from anywhere! This is why I like to tell my friends who exclusively smoke only one or the other to try some cigars from other places--you can be surprised by how much you like something that you'd sworn off at some point.

I think the fact that it was not always clear which cigars were actually Cubans and which not is very interesting too. Although I usually feel like I can tell, if I smoked them unbanded like this I'm not sure how I'd do.

And I've always thought the Epernay had a lot of Cuban characteristics too, but regardless of whether that's "good" or "bad," I love that cigar


----------



## JGD

Breakaway500 said:


> Ahh.Epernay..just torched one up today. I love them! The petits should be in stock next week...I'm getting a full box.


I picked up a couple of them (sticks, not boxes) the other day thanks to this thread.


----------



## CigarSmokePhilosopher

i have to say i'm going to pick up some Avo LE 07 if all four reviewers including JOHN fell for it being a cuban. must be worth a try.


----------



## LosingSleep

CigarSmokePhilosopher said:


> i have to say i'm going to pick up some Avo LE 07 if all four reviewers including JOHN fell for it being a cuban. must be worth a try.


Good luck with that.


----------



## CigarSmokePhilosopher

LosingSleep said:


> Good luck with that.


elaborate

btw, i decided to just get the real deal


----------



## Mante

CigarSmokePhilosopher said:


> elaborate


LMAO..... I'm waiting on the reply as I already know the answer..... Cmon Lost Sleeper. :smile: I as well wish you good luck with that purchase as it's going to be a long search.


----------



## TonyBrooklyn

LosingSleep said:


> Good luck with that.





CigarSmokePhilosopher said:


> elaborate
> 
> btw, i decided to just get the real deal





Tashaz said:


> LMAO..... I'm waiting on the reply as I already know the answer..... Cmon Lost Sleeper. :smile: I as well wish you good luck with that purchase as it's going to be a long search.


Agreed nothing tastes like a Cuban except for a Cuban.:deadhorse:


----------



## Mante

TonyBrooklyn said:


> Agreed nothing tastes like a Cuban except for a Cuban.:deadhorse:


Thats not exactly what I was referring to Tony. 2007 Avo's are going to be nigh on impossible to find unless they are from private stock, like Bruno's were. :smile:


----------



## TonyBrooklyn

Tashaz said:


> Thats not exactly what I was referring to Tony. 2007 Avo's are going to be nigh on impossible to find unless they are from private stock, like Bruno's were. :smile:


Sorry mis understood as i assumed my response was a give me. In Brooklyn lingo that means everyone realized its meaning. I was just responding in a manner in which anyone would IMHO that has an extensive history of smoking Cuban Cigars would respond. Hope i didn't confuse:rockon:


----------



## Mante

TonyBrooklyn said:


> Sorry mis understood as i assumed my response was a give me. In Brooklyn lingo that means everyone realized its meaning. I was just responding in a manner in which anyone would IMHO that has an extensive history of smoking Cuban Cigars would respond. Hope i didn't confuse:rockon:


LMAO.... Like you said in an RG comment.... Stop making a big deal out of it. I was just explaining My post, no need to explain yours. :spank::biglaugh::biglaugh::biglaugh::tg


----------



## LosingSleep

CigarSmokePhilosopher said:


> elaborate
> 
> btw, i decided to just get the real deal


Sorry, good luck finding the Avo retail. Let us know how thee real deal works out for you.



Tashaz said:


> LMAO..... I'm waiting on the reply as I already know the answer..... Cmon Lost Sleeper. :smile: I as well wish you good luck with that purchase as it's going to be a long search.


mg:



TonyBrooklyn said:


> Agreed nothing tastes like a Cuban except for a Cuban.:deadhorse:


No, but except for one...


----------



## TonyBrooklyn

LosingSleep said:


> Sorry, good luck finding the Avo retail. Let us know how thee real deal works out for you.
> 
> mg:
> 
> No, but except for one...


Don't believe everything you read.op2:


----------



## CigarSmokePhilosopher

Avo LE 07 Toro

though its "out of stock" atm


----------



## Johnny Rock

'09's are plentiful. Buy some and stash them for a couple of years...cheers!

That little Illusione Epernay Petite is worth a look also, just saying...


----------



## sirxlaughs

CigarSmokePhilosopher said:


> Avo LE 07 Toro
> 
> though its "out of stock" atm


Not just at the moment. They are limited editions. They are no longer made. If a store is out of stock, then it is indefinite.


----------



## Breakaway500

Epernay Petits are still not in stock...I email them every monday...they tell me any day now...


----------



## sirxlaughs

Johnny Rock said:


> '09's are plentiful. Buy some and stash them for a couple of years...cheers!
> 
> That little Illusione Epernay Petite is worth a look also, just saying...


I dare say that none of the newer LEs from Avo will ever be the same as the 07, 05, and the incredible 22. I could be wrong, since the 07 didn't surprise me until earlier this year. 
And those Epernays.... well.... let's just say I'm decently stocked on those. :biggrin:


----------



## Slowpokebill

Breakaway500 said:


> Epernay Petits are still not in stock...I email them every monday...they tell me any day now...


here you go

Fullers Pullers


----------



## Breakaway500

$332 vs. $270..I'll wait a bit..I would like two boxes,so a penny saved...Thanks for the link,though..


----------



## Slowpokebill

You know it is easy to be the cheapest on a product you don't have.

I have no idea who you're waiting to get the Epernays in stock. Illusione like some others only sells to certain dealers. So often some of the heavy internet dealers have to buy on the open/secondary market. They tend to go a long time between having things like Illusiones and Padrons in stock. And often the prices seem to go up on the new supply and match or exceed other dealers.

The other outfit I've bought Illusiones from is Tampa Humidor Illusione Criollo and Corojo Combination Cigars

nice they sell the Petites in half box splits. I'd have to really like something to buy two 50 count cabinets.


----------



## Breakaway500

I have bought Epernays from this source before,and they have always honored their prices. I don't honestly know if they are the cheapest on price,but they have always treated me well.I figured a few weeks of waiting is the least I can do in return for the great service I have received in the past. I may put the money saved toward a box of Epernay Le Fermes as these have been excellent!


----------



## TonyBrooklyn

I can buy a Cab of 50 Partagas shorts for less than that.
And i won't have to search for the TWANG as its in there!

*Le Petit 4 1/2 X 44 - 50 cigars per box / 25 per 1/2 box* *Single* *$6.65* Add to cart *5 - Pack* *$33.25* Add to cart *Half Box* *$166.25* Add to cart *Box* *$332.50*


----------



## Breakaway500

^ Interesting,I'll have to try a box...but I'm holding off on "importing" any more cigars till the heat is off...


----------



## TonyBrooklyn

You and me both my brother you and me both


----------



## sirxlaughs

TonyBrooklyn said:


> I can buy a Cab of 50 Partagas shorts for less than that.
> And i won't have to search for the TWANG as its in there!
> 
> *Le Petit 4 1/2 X 44 - 50 cigars per box / 25 per 1/2 box* *Single* *$6.65* Add to cart *5 - Pack* *$33.25* Add to cart *Half Box* *$166.25* Add to cart *Box* *$332.50*


And I can buy a cab of Le Petit's for less than the price you've quoted. Please stop tainting this thread. I've already told the mods I'd avoid responding to you, but you continue this nonsense. You keep comparing prices on cigars you buy illegally and pay no taxes/duties/etc on. Go ask anyone in a foreign country who buys their cigars legally how much a cab of Partagas Shorts cost. In England they go for about 7 GBP ($10+) each. We already know where you stand on cigar preference, twang, etc. You don't need to reiterate the same nonsense here if you have nothing constructive to contribute. 
I want this thread to be about constructive, friendly debate comparing apples to apples. Taste to taste, etc. Price is not comparable unless you can walk to a store and compare.


----------



## Max_Power

Breakaway500 said:


> Epernay Petits are still not in stock...I email them every monday...they tell me any day now...


My local sPot always has them in stock at $5 a piece. If you ever travel through RI I can tell you where to stop.


----------



## TonyBrooklyn

Cigars bought online from a vendor out of state are with out taxes. So as a model my post works. Cigars bought from J.R ,Holt's, C.I etc. etc. etc. The vendor that bill has posted are without local taxes added into the state in which you introduce them. Sorta like buying cigarettes in North and South Carolina and bringing them to New York. Nothing is tainted here we as BOTL are carrying on a constructive conversation. That's what this forum is for. The only time it is tainted is when one insults with the use of profanity towards another member. To compound the problem the offender fails to see his mistake.op2:


----------



## Scardinoz

Tax Free = Tax Free

Closer to the topic at hand, I consider twang to be the somewhat grassy zing to a cigar. Perhaps others are referring to something else. In the case of this entirely pleasant grassy zing, I have experienced it in some Davidoff cigars as much as I have experienced it in Habanos, so it can not be exclusive to Habanos. Davidoff also happens to be rather pricey.

Twang or no twang, I have never had a Dominican cigar that would have made me guess its origin a few miles west. Even still, a blind taste test would likely leave me with a sub par batting average.

As a side note, if someone blindfolded me and gave me a JO, I doubt I would guess Cuban. I have no idea what my guess would be.


----------



## TonyBrooklyn

Scardinoz said:


> Tax Free = Tax Free
> 
> Closer to the topic at hand, I consider twang to be the somewhat grassy zing to a cigar. Perhaps others are referring to something else. In the case of this entirely pleasant grassy zing, I have experienced it in some Davidoff cigars as much as I have experienced it in Habanos, so it can not be exclusive to Habanos. Davidoff also happens to be rather pricey.
> 
> Twang or no twang, I have never had a Dominican cigar that would have made me guess its origin a few miles west. Even still, a blind taste test would likely leave me with a sub par batting average.
> 
> As a side note, if someone blindfolded me and gave me a JO, I doubt I would guess Cuban. I have no idea what my guess would be.


Its hard Zach when ones palate is used to both Cuban and Non Cuban cigars. When one only smokes Cubans the palate is trained to pick out those specific flavors that only Cubans produce. Here are some non cigar related examples. I buy all my sausage at the pork store. There is no way someone can plop down supermarket sausage and pass it off as pork store sausage. This holds true for many other things i use sugar no artificial sweetener is going to fool me. I only use butter no Margarine will fool me. I only use olive oil no other oil will fool me. Fresh Mozzarella versus Polly-O.
Etc Etc Etc i have friends that do not notice the difference in either foods or cigars. This is both a curse and a blessing depending on how one chooses to except it. :hungry::hungry::hungry::hungry::hungry:


----------



## Breakaway500

I can tell what dairy my wife buys the milk from.Drives her nuts..


----------



## Scardinoz

TonyBrooklyn said:


> i have friends that do not notice the difference in either foods or cigars. This is both a curse and a blessing depending on how one chooses to except it. :hungry::hungry::hungry::hungry::hungry:


Well, I certainly notice a difference or I wouldn't be here. My point is that the difference does not seem - to me - to be as simple as whether or not a cigar has twang. In my experience - depending on how you define twang (there seems to be some slight citrus to it, as well) - NC and CC alike can exhibit twang. Of course, it is notably present in nearly all Habanos.

If someone were to ask me if a cigar I tasted blind was Cuban or not, I would not look for twang as it seems to me that there are NC that can achieve this. Instead, I would have to look at the big picture. The twang, the earth tones, the barn yard, the spice, the floral notes, the coffee,etc. NC cigars have these flavors but they don't exhibit them in the same way.

In short, to me, it is not easy to say XXXXX flavor is how you distinguish a CC from a NC. I have to look at the 'big picture'.

I do see your point, though, Tony. I use only real butter, real sugar, and Italian wines.


----------



## TonyBrooklyn

Scardinoz said:


> Well, I certainly notice a difference or I wouldn't be here. My point is that the difference does not seem - to me - to be as simple as whether or not a cigar has twang. In my experience - depending on how you define twang (there seems to be some slight citrus to it, as well) - NC and CC alike can exhibit twang. Of course, it is notably present in nearly all Habanos.
> 
> If someone were to ask me if a cigar I tasted blind was Cuban or not, I would not look for twang as it seems to me that there are NC that can achieve this. Instead, I would have to look at the big picture. The twang, the earth tones, the barn yard, the spice, the floral notes, the coffee,etc. NC cigars have these flavors but they don't exhibit them in the same way.
> 
> In short, to me, it is not easy to say XXXXX flavor is how you distinguish a CC from a NC. I have to look at the 'big picture'.
> 
> I do see your point, though, Tony. I use only real butter, real sugar, and Italian wines.


That's exactly right Zach Twang and flavors are present in all cigars. But Cuban Twang is unique to Cuban cigars. Even before the smoking of a cigar the look the feel the smell coming off the foot of a Cuban is unique. The pre light draw is also unique. Another example if my wife bought another brand of olive oil i would distinguish it as olive oil but not the one i normally use. Now you may take the band off a Cuban but its still a Cuban. If i smoke it i might not pick out the Marca but i most certainly couldn't mistake it for a non Cuban and visa versa. By the same token all Nicaraguan, Dominican, Honduran cigars also exhibit different quality's. I can tell a Dominican by its Metallic Twang many love it i find it revolting but its there. Nicaraguan cigars have a musty smell that comes off the foot that and there pepper undertones give them away. Honduran tobacco to me tastes like Mexican tobacco. Strange all three tobaccos exhibit a camphor like Twang but if you can pick out the other differences. Then you can tell them apart as well. Much harder than picking a Cuban from any one of them. Picking a Cuban is easy they are so unique .But mistaking one of them for a Cuban. Is like mistaking a Corvette for a Ferrari.


----------



## Breakaway500

Maybe Bruno would like to do another blind test extension of this test...for those of you who feel they can still tell a Cuban from a non-cuban.(I don't have enough cubans,especially aged ones or I would volunteer)
It is NOT as easy as you might think. Untill you are put to the test,it is all talk. I expect 100% positive results,but the way..


----------



## TonyBrooklyn

I beg to differ i don't think any seasoned Cuban only cigar smoker would be stumped for even a second. :deadhorse:
Maybe James Suckling is looking for a job!mg:
Or rather a challenge!:rockon:


----------



## marked

I was under the impression that at least a couple of the guys in this test _were _seasoned Cuban smokers.


----------



## Arnie

I nominate Tony as a panelist/taster for "Search for Twang #2"

However, I don't think it's fair to expect Bruno to foot the bill for the next Twang thread, so I suggest we chip in for the cigars while still having Bruno choose. Any takers?


----------



## TonyBrooklyn

marked said:


> I was under the impression that at least a couple of the guys in this test _were _seasoned Cuban smokers.


Quite the contrary.
None where Cuban only seasoned smokers.
Most had little knowledge with Cubans.
With the exception of Paul.
The key here is Cuban only.


----------



## TonyBrooklyn

Arnie said:


> I nominate Tony as a panelist/taster for "Search for Twang #2"
> 
> However, I don't think it's fair to expect Bruno to foot the bill for the next Twang thread, so I suggest we chip in for the cigars while still having Bruno choose. Any takers?


You guys wanna send me 15 cigars to test you think you can stump me go right ahead. I could use some smokes i will only smoke the ones i know to be Cuban as i will be able to pick them before i lite them. As long as Bruno is not involved i am in!op2:


----------



## marked

TonyBrooklyn said:


> Quite the contrary.
> None where Cuban only seasoned smokers.
> Most had little knowledge with Cubans.
> With the exception of Paul.
> *The key here is Cuban only.*


Why? Wouldn't someone that has experience with both be better able to distinguish?


----------



## TonyBrooklyn

marked said:


> Why? Wouldn't someone that has experience with both be better able to distinguish?


This should explain it an earlier post to Zach of course this is IMHO!

Its hard Zach when ones palate is used to both Cuban and Non Cuban cigars. When one only smokes Cubans the palate is trained to pick out those specific flavors that only Cubans produce. Here are some non cigar related examples. I buy all my sausage at the pork store. There is no way someone can plop down supermarket sausage and pass it off as pork store sausage. This holds true for many other things i use sugar no artificial sweetener is going to fool me. I only use butter no Margarine will fool me. I only use olive oil no other oil will fool me. Fresh Mozzarella versus Polly-O.
Etc Etc Etc i have friends that do not notice the difference in either foods or cigars. This is both a curse and a blessing depending on how one chooses to except it.


----------



## marked

TonyBrooklyn said:


> This should explain it an earlier post to Zach of course this is IMHO!
> 
> Its hard Zach when ones palate is used to both Cuban and Non Cuban cigars. When one only smokes Cubans the palate is trained to pick out those specific flavors that only Cubans produce. Here are some non cigar related examples. I buy all my sausage at the pork store. There is no way someone can plop down supermarket sausage and pass it off as pork store sausage. This holds true for many other things i use sugar no artificial sweetener is going to fool me. I only use butter no Margarine will fool me. I only use olive oil no other oil will fool me. Fresh Mozzarella versus Polly-O.
> Etc Etc Etc i have friends that do not notice the difference in either foods or cigars. This is both a curse and a blessing depending on how one chooses to except it.


Well...nice analogy, but I'm pretty sure that a dish or meal could be prepared with sweeteners, margarines, other oils, etc, and you wouldn't be able to tell the difference. And just so, a cigar could be rolled from different tobaccos, binders, and wrappers, and you might be fooled. Until you've been put to the test, it's all supposition.


----------



## TonyBrooklyn

marked said:


> Well...nice analogy, but I'm pretty sure that a dish or meal could be prepared with sweeteners, margarines, other oils, etc, and you wouldn't be able to tell the difference. And just so, a cigar could be rolled from different tobaccos, binders, and wrappers, and you might be fooled. Until you've been put to the test, it's all supposition.


I have over the 30 years i have been smoking cigars been tested by many. So how many cigars are you sending?:eyebrows:


----------



## bpegler

I wouldn't use the word twang myself. It's more of a mineral underlying flavor to me. Like a salt that's not NaCl but darker. It is unique to most Cubans. However I've been fooled by very young and extremely old cigars that don’t give the same texture to me. I believe I would be fooled with false negatives but not false positives. 
Just as a side note the Johnny O's I've smoked don’t taste Cuban to me.


----------



## marked

TonyBrooklyn said:


> I have over the 30 years i have been smoking cigars been tested by many. So how many cigars are you sending?:eyebrows:


If I had the stock, I'd run a test. Unfortunately, I've never had a Cuban, much less a level of stock to pass out. And the way it's going it looks like I might not ever. :mmph:

I would love to see a test with people such as yourself that claim they can always tell the difference. The last test was interesting, but I'm not sure it proved anything.


----------



## asmartbull

bpegler said:


> I wouldn't use the word twang myself. It's more of a mineral underlying flavor to me. Like a salt that's not NaCl but darker. It is unique to most Cubans. However I've been fooled by very young and extremely old cigars that don't give the same texture to me. I believe I would be fooled with false negatives but not false positives.
> Just as a side note the Johnny O's I've smoked don't taste Cuban to me.


I agree that Johnny O is different and could throw you off. But taking it a step further, I think you could get it by process of elimination. It definitely isn't Nic, Hon, Mex, ect....I also get a does of barnyard that isn't present in most NC's


----------



## bpegler

marked said:


> If I had the stock, I'd run a test. Unfortunately, I've never had a Cuban, much less a level of stock to pass out. And the way it's going it looks like I might not ever. :mmph:
> 
> I would love to see a test with people such as yourself that claim they can always tell the difference. The last test was interesting, but I'm not sure it proved anything.


WHAT! Never had a Cuban?
Let's fix that.
PM me your address Brother and let's see what Santa can find ...


----------



## bpegler

asmartbull said:


> I agree that Johnny O is different and could throw you off. But taking it a step further, I think you could get it by process of elimination. It definitely isn't Nic, Hon, Mex, ect....I also get a does of barnyard that isn't present in most NC's


Maybe whatever it is isn't a puros. That could explain what I experienced.


----------



## TonyBrooklyn

bpegler said:


> I wouldn't use the word twang myself. It's more of a mineral underlying flavor to me. Like a salt that's not NaCl but darker. It is unique to most Cubans. However I've been fooled by very young and extremely old cigars that don't give the same texture to me. I believe I would be fooled with false negatives but not false positives.
> Just as a side note the Johnny O's I've smoked don't taste Cuban to me.





asmartbull said:


> I agree that Johnny O is different and could throw you off. But taking it a step further, I think you could get it by process of elimination. It definitely isn't Nic, Hon, Mex, ect....I also get a does of barnyard that isn't present in most NC's


I always said that if there was one cigar blindfolded that could fool me it would be a Johnny -O. Not fully a Cuban in taste it tastes like no other non Cuban as well. But i have been out of the non Cuban game for so long who knows!


----------



## TonyBrooklyn

bpegler said:


> WHAT! Never had a Cuban?
> Let's fix that.
> PM me your address Brother and let's see what Santa can find ...


You hit the lotto Mark Bob is a most generous BOTL !
Nice Bob!
Now your finished Mark once you try a Cuban your a goner!


----------



## asmartbull

Re-reading this thread is really making my eyes bleed.

One short note.....

I believe that anyone who smoked "mostly" cc's
could tell if they were smoking a NC....Don't care if you call it twang or something else. I am turning into a CC snob,,
Went to a local B&M yesterday and was looking for ANYTHING that resembled a CC profile. No luck..
I did enjoy and LP#9.......

The short answer is that there are many veterans on this board that could easily identify a CC vs NC

That said....op2:


----------



## Slowpokebill

I can feel another blind test coming on. I know I don't have enough experience with Cubans, I've had a few in my 30 years of cigar smoking, but not more than could be counted on the fingers of one hand. Worse my palette just isn't refined enough. I'm pretty sure some others with more refined palettes and more experience wouldn't have much trouble picking Cubans from NC.

Anyway, this thread has continues to be fun to watch with its twist and turns.


----------



## marked

bpegler said:


> WHAT! Never had a Cuban?
> Let's fix that.
> PM me your address Brother and let's see what Santa can find ...


Seriously? That would be awesome! Actually, it would be my first bomb as well! :rockon:


----------



## sirxlaughs

TonyBrooklyn said:


> I beg to differ i don't think any seasoned Cuban only cigar smoker would be stumped for even a second. :deadhorse:
> Maybe James Suckling is looking for a job!mg:
> Or rather a challenge!:rockon:


Many people before made the same claim only to be made aware otherwise. If I didn't know better, I'd say you were Fredster's twin. I guess it's fortunate for you that when I sent you an invitation to participate, I got a response from a mod instead. You talk big, but when it came down to it, you didn't want to participate. So, you can keep believing what you believe. In the end, we'll just have to agree to disagree.



TonyBrooklyn said:


> Cigars bought online from a vendor out of state are with out taxes. So as a model my post works. Cigars bought from J.R ,Holt's, C.I etc. etc. etc. The vendor that bill has posted are without local taxes added into the state in which you introduce them. Sorta like buying cigarettes in North and South Carolina and bringing them to New York. Nothing is tainted here we as BOTL are carrying on a constructive conversation. That's what this forum is for. The only time it is tainted is when one insults with the use of profanity towards another member. To compound the problem the offender fails to see his mistake.op2:


No, they are not. They have importation tax. The US taxes all incoming tobacco regardless of local taxes. You can only avoid local taxes by shopping out of state. Your model does not work, and it never will work until Cuban cigars can be bought in the States legally. 
It's tainting it b/c you just say the same thing over and over. Enough already. We get it. Cubans are the best wheels on the planet. They're cheaper, better, stronger, faster, etc. Gotcha. Anyone who disagrees with you is either ignorant, lacking a refined palate, etc. Got it. Then you'll end with, "Smoke what you like, like what you smoke." Wonderful. Thanks.



Slowpokebill said:


> I can feel another blind test coming on. I know I don't have enough experience with Cubans, I've had a few in my 30 years of cigar smoking, but not more than could be counted on the fingers of one hand. Worse my palette just isn't refined enough. I'm pretty sure some others with more refined palettes and more experience wouldn't have much trouble picking Cubans from NC.
> 
> Anyway, this thread has continues to be fun to watch with its twist and turns.


Many experienced smokers can even pick out specific marcas with both Cuban and non-Cuban cigars. I've seen it done and it's amazing. But even they'll tell you that it's not the uniqueness of the tobacco's origin, but remembering that specific blend. Give someone who smokes only Cuban Montecristo's a Cuban Bolivar, and they'll have no idea what they're smoking. Saying that if you only smoke one thing, you can tell when you're not smoking is ridiculous. Of course that's possible. If you eat beef all your life, and someone gives you chicken, you'll be able to say, "This isn't beef." But you won't be able to say it's chicken. Does that make sense? So, if all you smoke is Cuban tobacco, you may be able identify that tobacco from that farm/region/etc, but you won't be able to identify anything else. Most of the Cuban marcas get all of their tobacco from two regions of the country. If I go hit the streets of Cuba and get some street cigars made from some guy's backyard plants, I wonder if someone would be able to say "Oh yea, that's totally Cuban." I, personally, don't think so unless they had smoked that particular tobacco before.
Paul is a highly seasoned smoker, and his results in this tasting reflected that. However, even he was stumped by cigars that he had never experienced before. If my collection was more diversified (a la Moki, for example), I guess that I'd be able to garner more interesting results. 
In any case, the point of this tasting was quite simple and I explained it many times. The meaning of the word "twang" has been lost over time and come to mean so many thing, it's basically meaningless. You'll never see a "professional" taster use that word. Some people think it's a salty quality. Some people think it's a grassy quality. It goes on and on. Plain, simple fact is, there is a lot of unique tobacco out there that comes even from the same country. Connecticut broadleaf doesn't taste like Pennsylvania broadleaf. Padrons don't taste like Pepins. Fuentes don't taste like Avos. Robainas don't taste like Partagas(es).


----------



## marked

sirxlaughs said:


> Many people before made the same claim only to be made aware otherwise. If I didn't know better, I'd say you were Fredster's twin. I guess it's fortunate for you that when I sent you an invitation to participate, I got a response from a mod instead. You talk big, but when it came down to it, you didn't want to participate. So, you can keep believing what you believe. In the end, we'll just have to agree to disagree.
> 
> No, they are not. They have importation tax. The US taxes all incoming tobacco regardless of local taxes. You can only avoid local taxes by shopping out of state. Your model does not work, and it never will work until Cuban cigars can be bought in the States legally.
> It's tainting it b/c you just say the same thing over and over. Enough already. We get it. Cubans are the best wheels on the planet. They're cheaper, better, stronger, faster, etc. Gotcha. Anyone who disagrees with you is either ignorant, lacking a refined palate, etc. Got it. Then you'll end with, "Smoke what you like, like what you smoke." Wonderful. Thanks.


----------



## asmartbull

The only positive thing that is coming out of this thread now....

Mark is getting cigars...................

From great brother Bob...........

It's all going down from here,,,,,


----------



## Breakaway500

There is no denying facts. 
Fact: No one who was involved in this test could accurately determine cubans from non cubans.
Fact:Some testers were better at it,but in the end,there was no special "Twang" that any cigar smoker could identify as specific to cubans,and no "Untwang" specific to non cubans.
Fact: Until a believer in "Twang" is actually put to the test, it is all talk,and talk is cheap.


----------



## miken1967

Guys,

I'm still a newbie here. Can someone explain exactly what you mean by twang? I see the term used a lot here but don't know what it means.


thanks.


----------



## Mante

miken1967 said:


> Guys,
> 
> I'm still a newbie here. Can someone explain exactly what you mean by twang? I see the term used a lot here but don't know what it means.
> 
> thanks.


Advise: Read through the whole thread from the beginning.



> Fact: No one who was involved in this test could accurately determine cubans from non cubans.
> Fact:Some testers were better at it,but in the end,there was no special "Twang" that any cigar smoker could identify as specific to cubans,and no "Untwang" specific to non cubans.
> Fact: Until a believer in "Twang" is actually put to the test, it is all talk,and talk is cheap.


Harsh, but true. (Coming from a predominantly Cuban smoker)



> The only positive thing that is coming out of this thread now....
> 
> Mark is getting cigars...................
> 
> From great brother Bob...........
> 
> It's all going down from here,,,,,


I agree but the OP is being poked a little here considering what he put up out of his own stash of fine well aged cigars. I think he maybe has a right to say his piece in his own thread.


----------



## asmartbull

I swore I wasn't going to post again...but what the hell.
You guys are talking about 2 different things.
Twang and identifying Cubans.

To identify Cubans, you must have smokes a lot of cubans.
There was one experienced Cuban smoker, and he also smokes an equal amt of NC's. I believe most that smoke
"mostly" Cubans could make the distinction upon lighting the cigar. If Tony, Bob, Steve (Rodio), Donnie, were involved, the outcome would have been different.
As for twang , it has no bearing as it is usually how a Cuban cigar smoker discribes an essence he picks up
in Cuban tobacco. It is not a flavor..........

On a side note, I often was wondering how novice cuban cigar smokers could pick out Cuban cigars...That test only proved that Bruno is a generous brother......

Back to yo corner


----------



## Mante

> On a side note, I often was wondering how novice cuban cigar smokers could pick out Cuban cigars...That test only proved that Bruno is a generous brother......


Yet again I agree but the offer was made from the beginning to numerous people to take part, myself included. I excused myself as I did not think I could do Bruno's smokes justice. That does not give me the right to come into HIS thread & start espousing my views, in fact it does the opposite. 0.02c that I'm sure are going to get me in the shit again but it needs to be said.


----------



## TonyBrooklyn

sirxlaughs said:


> Many people before made the same claim only to be made aware otherwise. If I didn't know better, I'd say you were Fredster's twin. I guess it's fortunate for you that when I sent you an invitation to participate, I got a response from a mod instead. You talk big, but when it came down to it, you didn't want to participate. So, you can keep believing what you believe. In the end, we'll just have to agree to disagree.
> 
> You where told by a Mod not to contact because of your behavior on another thread. You know the one where you used profanity towards me for expressing my opinion on an open forum. As i recall your ring gauge was gouged be many forum members as well. You did however recoup that with this rebellious thread on how someone couldn't tell a Cuban from a non Cuban .Talk big wow finding ways to insult without profanity's i am impressed for sure. I have no desire to participate in anything sponsored by you. I only came into this thread to talk with other Botl about cigars. You see i stayed away as Mods told me not to answer your threads or posts . They told you the same thing but you have been answering my posts first indirectly now directly for months so i figured whats good for the goose is good for the gander. Bruno in all honesty your ignorance is only superseded by your belligerence. IMHO you have no idea of what it takes to be a member of a forum. Passing out 60 free cigars to sponsor a thread that proves nothing. Is not how to make friends on a forum. I can't imagine why the Mods have not closed down this deteriorating thread.
> You made a mistake your pride wouldn't let you admit it. So instead of doing what was right and apologizing on an open forum. The very same forum you insulted on. You choose to play this back and forth game. My father taught us when your wrong be humble. I apologize when i am wrong all men do. Beats the hell out of bumping heads with someone you are bound to run into nearly everyday.
> 
> Oh yeah and about importation taxes they are peanuts its the state and local taxes that are the killer. Nice play on ones words though.
> And taxes or no taxes the price vs what you are getting is my point. You keep playing on the tax issue what are you an I.R.S agent.


----------



## asmartbull

Tashaz said:


> Yet again I agree but the offer was made from the beginning to numerous people to take part, myself included. I excused myself as I did not think I could do Bruno's smokes justice. That does not give me the right to come into HIS thread & start espousing my views, in fact it does the opposite. 0.02c that I'm sure are going to get me in the shit again but it needs to be said.


None of this is personal....In reading the thread, taking into acct those involved, the results are predicable...I'm not dissing Bruno..But lets face it,,,,,if Warren and I are talking about "twang" amongst ourselves as it relates to cigars we are smoke....we know what each other is talking about.....I also think it would be hard pressed to stump Warren on CC or NC.....

Are there exceptions,,,absolutely. Aged stock comes to mind, but even then I can't believe one could mistake a 97 Fundy with NC.............It is hard when you have 2 different conversations going on.....

Kudo's to Bruno for doing this.....

I think this Summer it would be fun to do a BIG blind test....Get 15-20 with different backrounds ( cc'ers and mixed CC/NC). Throw 100.00 each in the pot for purchase of cigars. Ask a mod or anyone to administer....I would be willing...

Ask 2 questions, Cuban or NC. Describe "overall" experience.

Last note by me on this............


----------



## Breakaway500

Tony,put yourself to the test. If you are so confident,I would think you would jump at an opportunity to show your stuff!
Like us other testers,we were asked to only smoke the cigar,and not dissect it to determine its origin.
I'll bet you CAN'T do it 100%.

Cetain cuban cigars aged properly are good smokes.Some not so good. Do they all share this grassy,sweaty,barnyard,meaty flavor called twang? No.

Certain Non cuban cigars aged properly are good smokes.Some not so good. Do they all lack a grassy,sweaty,barnyard,meaty flavor called twang? No.


----------



## TonyBrooklyn

Breakaway500 said:


> Tony,put yourself to the test. If you are so confident,I would think you would jump at an opportunity to show your stuff!
> Like us other testers,we were asked to only smoke the cigar,and not dissect it to determine its origin.
> I'll bet you CAN'T do it 100%.


I already have Go back and read the responses to this thread . Arnie suggested it pages ago. I said i would be more than happy to be a panelist as long as it doesn't involve Bruno. I am afraid of nothing and I'll bet you are wrong! I could not would not ever mistake a non Cuban for a Cuban.


----------



## Mante

> I think this Summer it would be fun to do a BIG blind test....Get 15-20 with different backrounds ( cc'ers and mixed CC/NC). Throw 100.00 each in the pot for purchase of cigars. Ask a mod or anyone to administer....I would be willing...
> 
> Ask 2 questions, Cuban or NC. Describe "overall" experience.


Oh hell yes!!!! Count me in already. Get it done Al. :lock1:


----------



## tobacmon

I for one was stumped on many of the cigars we reviewed but found the AVO 07 to be one of the best smokes in the review and there were many stellar smokes in it. So good that I thought it was CC. I have let many smokes sit for a few years and found the longer most rest the better they seem "to me" get with age. Not all cigars do this for some reason and do not have any answers for this. I must admit after doing this review I honestly feel I can't get a 100% accuracy in determining what was CC and what was not. Reminds me of I'm not smarter than a "Fifth Grader!" Just being honest. 

Bruno was very generous as many BOTL here are and again I appreciate the time and effort he put into the review so everyone would have their own opinion's.


----------



## TonyBrooklyn

asmartbull said:


> None of this is personal....In reading the thread, taking into acct those involved, the results are predicable...I'm not dissing Bruno..But lets face it,,,,,if Warren and I are talking about "twang" amongst ourselves as it relates to cigars we are smoke....we know what each other is talking about.....I also think it would be hard pressed to stump Warren on CC or NC.....
> 
> Are there exceptions,,,absolutely. Aged stock comes to mind, but even then I can't believe one could mistake a 97 Fundy with NC.............It is hard when you have 2 different conversations going on.....
> 
> Kudo's to Bruno for doing this.....
> 
> I think this Summer it would be fun to do a BIG blind test....Get 15-20 with different backrounds ( cc'ers and mixed CC/NC). Throw 100.00 each in the pot for purchase of cigars. Ask a mod or anyone to administer....I would be willing...
> 
> Ask 2 questions, Cuban or NC. Describe "overall" experience.
> 
> Last note by me on this............


I would be willing to as well no need for anyone to donate their stash and control the thread and the experiment. Neutral parties set it up lets see who's talk is really cheap! $100 is a cheap price to pay to dispel this myth. Ok that's Bull Man and me Warren we need 2 more say a panel of 5.


----------



## sirxlaughs

TonyBrooklyn said:


> sirxlaughs said:
> 
> 
> 
> Many people before made the same claim only to be made aware otherwise. If I didn't know better, I'd say you were Fredster's twin. I guess it's fortunate for you that when I sent you an invitation to participate, I got a response from a mod instead. You talk big, but when it came down to it, you didn't want to participate. So, you can keep believing what you believe. In the end, we'll just have to agree to disagree.
> 
> You where told by a Mod not to contact because of your behavior on another thread. You know the one where you used profanity towards me for expressing my opinion on an open forum. As i recall your ring gauge was gouged be many forum members as well. You did however recoup that with this rebellious thread on how someone couldn't tell a Cuban from a non Cuban .Talk big wow finding ways to insult without profanity's i am impressed for sure. I have no desire to participate in anything sponsored by you. I only came into this thread to talk with other Botl about cigars. You see i stayed away as Mods told me not to answer your threads or posts . They told you the same thing but you have been answering my posts first indirectly now directly for months so i figured whats good for the goose is good for the gander. Bruno in all honesty your ignorance is only superseded by your belligerence. IMHO you have no idea of what it takes to be a member of a forum. Passing out 60 free cigars to sponsor a thread that proves nothing. Is not how to make friends on a forum. I can't imagine why the Mods have not closed down this deteriorating thread.
> You made a mistake your pride wouldn't let you admit it. So instead of doing what was right and apologizing on an open forum. The very same forum you insulted on. You choose to play this back and forth game. My father taught us when your wrong be humble. I apologize when i am wrong all men do. Beats the hell out of bumping heads with someone you are bound to run into nearly everyday.:yield:
> 
> 
> 
> Let me correct a few things. I was told by a mod not to contact you directly after inviting you to participate in this. The "profanity" used against you was one insult that I used after you insulted me. Then, Cigary came in and used more insults than I can count.
> Also, my ring gauge was gouged by 3 members. One of them apologized, and gave me a bump later on. Maybe that's "many" to you. Quite honestly, my ring gauge received many more bumps than "gouges" after my confrontations with you.
> You came into this thread after everything was over to do nothing but stir the pot. You even kept using the popcorn emoticon. Expecting a show of some sort?
> You're still calling me ignorant. It's all fine and good. Like I said. We'll agree to disagree. You and I will not get along, and that's just how it is. Some things in this world just weren't meant to be. You want to preach your word as gospel, go for it. Again, I already summarized everything you have to say in an earlier post. You are no longer needed in this thread. If you continue this, I'll just have to ask the mods to close this down as you'll just further taint a topic that was meant to encourage fun, open minded discussion. Instead, you come on here and have only negative things to say. Oh, I wouldn't be fooled. No "real" Cuban cigar smoker would be fooled. That's great. It really seems as if you still haven't read the old blind tasting between Moki and Fredster.
> I will never apologize to you b/c (in my eyes) calling you what I called you was not a mistake. I called you out, and you didn't like it. You called me ignorant, and I responded. In my dealings with you, you'll always stop talking cigars, and resort to ad hominems like claiming that anyone who thinks a non-Cuban can be better than a Cuban must have a screwed up palate. We are all individuals with individual tastes. Not all of them are going to agree with yours. You don't like being called out, and you don't like being disagreed with. You think you're opinion is fact.
> I've seen more nonsense come out of your posts in your short time here than I've seen in most of my years combined. Magnesium makes Dominican cigars taste metallic? It's funny that you make claims here and there with absolutely no basis for them other than hearsay. Well, I heard this guy say it who heard it from that guy who was told by some other guy etc and they're all "experts." :hand:
> You don't even know who really invented the "wheel." I'll give you a hint, it wasn't the Cubans. You keep talking about non-Cuban cigars and then admit you've been "out of the game" for years. Essentially, you admit you know nothing of the current status of non-Cuban cigars, but claim that you do. The only thing positive I can say to you is that we are all entitled to our opinions. You prefer Cuban cigars over all others. That's all good. There are many people that share your preference. You prefer to the point of shunning all others. That's all good too. You are, again, not alone in this. My problem is the way you act towards everything non-Cuban and the people who like anything non-Cuban. You don't need to be a broken record about it.
> I'll leave as you like to - Smoke what you like. Like what you smoke.
Click to expand...


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## asmartbull

tobacmon said:


> I for one was stumped on many of the cigars we reviewed but found the AVO 07 to be one of the best smokes in the review and there were many stellar smokes in it. So good that I thought it was CC. I have let many smokes sit for a few years and found the longer most rest the better they seem "to me" get with age. Not all cigars do this for some reason and do not have any answers for this. I must admit after doing this review I honestly feel I can't get a 100% accuracy in determining what was CC and what was not. Reminds me of I'm not smarter than a "Fifth Grader!" Just being honest.
> 
> Bruno was very generous as many BOTL here are and again I appreciate the time and effort he put into the review so everyone would have their own opinion's.


Paul
I paid a lot of attention to your reviews ....I to believe it hard to be 100%, especially when there are cigars that tend to "break" the rules.....Johnny O comes to mind
along with some lesser known CC's that stray across some lines. I do believe one could be at 90-95 %.
Aging is a variable that can't be factored......
I look forward to this Summer....I don't want to do this in Winter when the experience can't be maximized...

Now I am really done


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## TonyBrooklyn

sirxlaughs said:


> TonyBrooklyn said:
> 
> 
> 
> Let me correct a few things. I was told by a mod not to contact you directly after inviting you to participate in this. The "profanity" used against you was one insult that I used after you insulted me. Then, Cigary came in and used more insults than I can count.
> Also, my ring gauge was gouged by 3 members. One of them apologized, and gave me a bump later on. Maybe that's "many" to you. Quite honestly, my ring gauge received many more bumps than "gouges" after my confrontations with you.
> You came into this thread after everything was over to do nothing but stir the pot. You even kept using the popcorn emoticon. Expecting a show of some sort?
> You're still calling me ignorant. It's all fine and good. Like I said. We'll agree to disagree. You and I will not get along, and that's just how it is. Some things in this world just weren't meant to be. You want to preach your word as gospel, go for it. Again, I already summarized everything you have to say in an earlier post. You are no longer needed in this thread. If you continue this, I'll just have to ask the mods to close this down as you'll just further taint a topic that was meant to encourage fun, open minded discussion. Instead, you come on here and have only negative things to say. Oh, I wouldn't be fooled. No "real" Cuban cigar smoker would be fooled. That's great. It really seems as if you still haven't read the old blind tasting between Moki and Fredster.
> I will never apologize to you b/c (in my eyes) calling you what I called you was not a mistake. I called you out, and you didn't like it. You called me ignorant, and I responded. In my dealings with you, you'll always stop talking cigars, and resort to ad hominems like claiming that anyone who thinks a non-Cuban can be better than a Cuban must have a screwed up palate. We are all individuals with individual tastes. Not all of them are going to agree with yours. You don't like being called out, and you don't like being disagreed with. You think you're opinion is fact.
> I've seen more nonsense come out of your posts in your short time here than I've seen in most of my years combined. Magnesium makes Dominican cigars taste metallic? It's funny that you make claims here and there with absolutely no basis for them other than hearsay. Well, I heard this guy say it who heard it from that guy who was told by some other guy etc and they're all "experts." :hand:
> You don't even know who really invented the "wheel." I'll give you a hint, it wasn't the Cubans. You keep talking about non-Cuban cigars and then admit you've been "out of the game" for years. Essentially, you admit you know nothing of the current status of non-Cuban cigars, but claim that you do. The only thing positive I can say to you is that we are all entitled to our opinions. You prefer Cuban cigars over all others. That's all good. There are many people that share your preference. You prefer to the point of shunning all others. That's all good too. You are, again, not alone in this. My problem is the way you act towards everything non-Cuban and the people who like anything non-Cuban. You don't need to be a broken record about it.
> I'll leave as you like to - Smoke what you like. Like what you smoke.
> 
> 
> 
> Calling someone ignorant was is never meant as an insult. We are all ignorant to things from time to time. When one chooses to remain ignorant and then mock things/ others they do not understand that is indeed sad. To rebel with profanity is a sign of lower intelligence. I am ashamed that i allowed you through your constant petty anty remarks drag me down to the level in witch you have played ball. Live in denial continue to mock what you do not understand. Hate those you don't even know. Whatever works for you God Bless!
> I am going to quote Bull Man here "Now i am really done!"
Click to expand...


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## Mante

asmartbull said:


> I look forward to this Summer....I don't want to do this in Winter when the experience can't be maximized...


Thats my winter bastage! Good thing I love sitting in front of the Chiminea with Tash & smoking in winter. LOL. I'd suggest you guys get the logistics sorted & get this in it's own thread. I want more than a panel of 5 though.


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## asmartbull

Tashaz said:


> Thats my winter bastage! Good thing I love sitting in front of the Chiminea with Tash & smoking in winter. LOL. I'd suggest you guys get the logistics sorted & get this in it's own thread. I want more than a panel of 5 though.


I am thinking 16-18
1/2 CC'ers, 1/2 CC/NC or possibly NC'ers


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## Mitch

gjcab09 said:


> I like the elusive, yet ever-addictive poon-twang! :tease::biggrin:


 lol, My exact thought...

By the way, you were wondering what we think of the taste, awesome :lock1:


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## Mitch

TonyBrooklyn said:


> sirxlaughs said:
> 
> 
> 
> Calling someone ignorant was is never meant as an insult. We are all ignorant to things from time to time. When one chooses to remain ignorant and then mock things/ others they do not understand that is indeed sad. To rebel with profanity is a sign of lower intelligence. I am ashamed that i allowed you through your constant petty anty remarks drag me down to the level in witch you have played ball. Live in denial continue to mock what you do not understand. Hate those you don't even know. Whatever works for you God Bless!
> I am going to quote Bull Man here "Now i am really done!"
> 
> 
> 
> You guys are bickering like ol wash women. My gosh, take the drama to Dr. Phil (or pm's) but keep it off the boards.
Click to expand...


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## sirxlaughs

asmartbull said:


> I swore I wasn't going to post again...but what the hell.
> You guys are talking about 2 different things.
> Twang and identifying Cubans.
> 
> To identify Cubans, you must have smokes a lot of cubans.
> There was one experienced Cuban smoker, and he also smokes an equal amt of NC's. I believe most that smoke
> "mostly" Cubans could make the distinction upon lighting the cigar. If Tony, Bob, Steve (Rodio), Donnie, were involved, the outcome would have been different.
> As for twang , it has no bearing as it is usually how a Cuban cigar smoker discribes an essence he picks up
> in Cuban tobacco. It is not a flavor..........
> 
> On a side note, I often was wondering how novice cuban cigar smokers could pick out Cuban cigars...That test only proved that Bruno is a generous brother......
> 
> Back to yo corner


You missed one crucial point I tried to make. The twang. A claim was made that *all* Cuban tobacco has a "twang" that makes it unique from all other tobacco. If this is true, *anyone *(even a noob) should be able to pick it out. Picking out tastes is not about smoking experience. Dan was the most inexperienced smoker in the bunch, but all of his tasting notes were spot on. Compare them to reviews by other people for the same cigars. His palate works. So, after I exposed the Cuban ones in the beginning, the test should have been cake since the "uniqueness" had been exposed. My other claim was that experience comes into play b/c we memorize the tastes of blends and marcas. We then identify those with a country of origin. I saw the comparison to beef and pork. This test is more like comparing different apple breeds. Would you be able to pick out a Fuji vs a Gala apple? Would you start talking about the Fuji apple's twang that isn't present in any other apple? I'm not saying it's not possible. It can be done with anything. If you experience only one of something, then you'll be able to pick out that one something, but nothing else. My question was whether or not there is one unique flavor (twang), or if there's a uniqueness to each marca/blend that a person can get used to tasting and remember.


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## sirxlaughs

asmartbull said:


> Paul
> I paid a lot of attention to your reviews ....I to believe it hard to be 100%, especially when there are cigars that tend to "break" the rules.....Johnny O comes to mind
> along with some lesser known CC's that stray across some lines. * I do believe one could be at 90-95 %.*
> Aging is a variable that can't be factored......
> I look forward to this Summer....I don't want to do this in Winter when the experience can't be maximized...
> 
> Now I am really done


And you would be correct in your belief. If you'd like, I could PM you some tests where this very thing happened (different boards, so I'd rather not post them publicly). Moki was also "challenged" on this board by a more novice member and got 100%. You should read how he explained this and how humble he was about it.


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## Mitch

I will settle this debate for you guys. Everyone send me your NC and your CC and I will tell you which one is which, hehe...


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## sirxlaughs

Mitch said:


> I will settle this debate for you guys. Everyone send me your NC and your CC and I will tell you which one is which, hehe...


But it's more fun to do it myself. :lol: :tease:


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## asmartbull

sirxlaughs said:


> You missed one crucial point I tried to make. The twang. A claim was made that *all* Cuban tobacco has a "twang" that makes it unique from all other tobacco. If this is true, *anyone *(even a noob) should be able to pick it out. Picking out tastes is not about smoking experience. Dan was the most inexperienced smoker in the bunch, but all of his tasting notes were spot on. Compare them to reviews by other people for the same cigars. His palate works. So, after I exposed the Cuban ones in the beginning, the test should have been cake since the "uniqueness" had been exposed. My other claim was that experience comes into play b/c we memorize the tastes of blends and marcas. We then identify those with a country of origin. I saw the comparison to beef and pork. This test is more like comparing different apple breeds. Would you be able to pick out a Fuji vs a Gala apple? Would you start talking about the Fuji apple's twang that isn't present in any other apple? I'm not saying it's not possible. It can be done with anything. If you experience only one of something, then you'll be able to pick out that one something, but nothing else. My question was whether or not there is one unique flavor (twang), or if there's a uniqueness to each marca/blend that a person can get used to tasting and remember.


I understand the premise, but universal comments are tough to prove, twang included. I don't use twang, since it is not a flavor. But when Warren tells me about a cigar 
that has a lot of twang, I know what he means. It's kinda like ****,,,,,Hard to describe, but know it when I see it. I use this understand to identify CC's. I have yet to experience a NC with the same ( what ever you call it)

Regardless this horse is now glue...........

I am really done this time


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## tobacmon

asmartbull said:


> Paul
> I paid a lot of attention to your reviews ....I to believe it hard to be 100%, especially when there are cigars that tend to "break" the rules.....*Johnny O comes to mind*
> 
> *I've had only "one" Johnny O and one sitting that Santa sent me but a larger ring gauge. Not to sound bad but I was not impressed with my first one and that might be because of the viola--We'll see because my next looks to be a robust ...*
> 
> along with some lesser known CC's that stray across some lines. I do believe one could be at 90-95 %.
> Aging is a variable that can't be factored......
> 
> *I look forward to this Summer....I don't want to do this in Winter when the experience can't be maximized...
> *
> 
> *Now I am really done*


*I understand completely and look forward to watching or participating--Only my doctor knows for sure--Thinking Positive!!!*


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## Breakaway500

If "twang" were SO discernable,as some say,there would be no issue in finding "it" in a cigar.If it is not a flavor,what is it? 
I consider myself to have a pretty good sense of taste,and I could not differentiate between CC and NC by flavor alone. 
Yes,I could pick out specific cigars by flavor alone (especially the Bolivar RC and the OpusX) but it was because I am familiar with their particular flavor characteristics,not because one had Twang and one did not.
I believe Twang to be a mystical force conjured up by the staunch believers in its existence.
Similar to how Harley riders from the 90's proclaimed anything else with two wheels was not a "real" motorcycle. I often wondered what they were babbling about,having driven and owned (still..) HD's since the panhead days..and the truth was that yes,they did indeed feel the HD was the only "real" motorcycle in the world..but the fact was,no...other motorcycles existed..and the only difference was...they were..different.
Not better or worse,just different. 
The only "magic" was how the owner felt about their beloved bike.
Same thing with CC's. They are just cigars. I find no magic,but I do agree some have a salty,meaty flavor to them,but it is NOT an exclusive CC trait.
I prefer the flavor of Opus to any CC I have ever had. I'm not saying better or worse,just a personal preference..


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## sirxlaughs

asmartbull said:


> I understand the premise, but universal comments are tough to prove, twang included. I don't use twang, since it is not a flavor. But when Warren tells me about a cigar
> that has a lot of twang, I know what he means. It's kinda like ****,,,,,Hard to describe, but know it when I see it. I use this understand to identify CC's. I have yet to experience a NC with the same ( what ever you call it)
> 
> Regardless this horse is now glue...........
> 
> I am really done this time


I understand what you're saying. And I agree with you. It's actually not that hard to describe, though. I've made mention of it a few times. Originally, twang described a citrusy, tart taste present in many Cuban cigars. There was a time where this was not seen anywhere else but in particular Cuban blends. As the word gained popularity and went "viral", it just become an adjective for "Cuban taste." There are many marcas from Cuba that don't have this "twang." Cohiba comes to mind for me. My experience with that marca is limited, but I've come to know them as having an underlying grassy quality. John picked out this grassiness in the test and identified the first four cigars as Cohibas. Mark, who's admitted to being a Bolivar lover, correctly identified every Bolivar in the test. 
I tried to be very methodical, yet as random as possible with this test. I tried very hard to make it "easy". Every cigar I choice (to me) is unique and doesn't taste like any other. The Gold Medal, for example, I picked b/c I felt it didn't represent the Bolivar brand well. So, I had another Bolivar in there to see if people would find a similarity between them. I also put in cigars that I felt are some of the best representatives of what a good/great cigar is/should be from my collection. One thing I didn't want happening is someone saying that I picked X origin cigars of known better quality than Y origin cigars. No Swishers, no red dots, no Piedras, etc. I didn't do this b/c I wanted to show my generosity. I'm actually not very generous at all. I wish I could be, but I can't afford to be. My wife saw me going through the selection process sometimes saying stuff like, "I've only smoked one of these myself." or, "I only have 5 of these left and now I'm giving 4 of them away. WTF am I doing?" My main reasons (there's more than one) were to have some fun reading the reviews, bring an interesting topic/activity that hasn't been done in a long time to this board, spark some quality conversation, and maybe even open some eyes to how vast the cigar world has become. Many people don't know that Cuba become the epicenter of the tobacco world b/c a European said so. The natives were busy wrapping shriveled up tobacco in corn leaves or getting high off it. The Europeans (the Spanish were a large influence) refined everything. The Portuguese learned how to "smoke" from the Mexicans. Europeans built the factories. They designed the blends (not all of them, of course). They invented the modern day Cuban cigar, not the Cubans. When Castro took over the country, he took ownership of everything. Part of the reason why there's double branding (besides the copyright nonsense with the embargo) is that those Cuban brands that were absorbed by Cubatobacco took their name and moved. Why did everyone run to Cuba for tobacco? B/c a King decreed that Cuba be the the dispatch hub for tobacco. Maybe a business decision? Who knows. Jean Nicot first studied the tobacco plant in gardens in Portugal. The cigar band wasn't invented by a Cuban. The dress box - European. The cabinet box - European. 
In any case, I'm just ranting and babbling now. I hope everyone can still read through this thread with enjoyment minus a little interruption here and there.


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## fuente~fuente

Breakaway500 said:


> If "twang" were SO discernable,as some say,there would be no issue in finding "it" in a cigar.If it is not a flavor,what is it?
> I consider myself to have a pretty good sense of taste,and I could not differentiate between CC and NC by flavor alone.
> Yes,I could pick out specific cigars by flavor alone (especially the Bolivar RC and the OpusX) but it was because I am familiar with their particular flavor characteristics,not because one had Twang and one did not.
> I believe Twang to be a mystical force conjured up by the staunch believers in its existence.
> Similar to how Harley riders from the 90's proclaimed anything else with two wheels was not a "real" motorcycle. I often wondered what they were babbling about,having driven and owned (still..) HD's since the panhead days..and the truth was that yes,they did indeed feel the HD was the only "real" motorcycle in the world..but the fact was,no...other motorcycles existed..and the only difference was...they were..different.
> Not better or worse,just different.
> The only "magic" was how the owner felt about their beloved bike.
> Same thing with CC's. They are just cigars. I find no magic,but I do agree some have a salty,meaty flavor to them,but it is NOT an exclusive CC trait.
> I prefer the flavor of Opus to any CC I have ever had. I'm not saying better or worse,just a personal preference..


Good post... You can call it whatever you want. Twang, meaty, salty, poo-poo, whatever... It is what it is... A different profile from a different region. Just like Dominican has one, just like Nicaraguan has one, just like Honduran has one. That doesn't mean it's "better", It just means it's different. If that happens to be your favorite profile, than so be it, but it doesn't mean anything else except that you prefer a different profile in your smokes. There's no pixie that sprinkles magical twangy dust over the heavenly fields of Cuba. It's a cigar that tastes different because it's grown in a different region, just like they all are. The difference is that a lot of cigars meld these regions when blending. It would be much different if everything were a "puro" like Cubans. The difference in profiles would be easier to pick out.

But in the end.... _*Cue the token phrase..._ * You* smoke what *you* like.


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## longburn

Wow, this above all else should show that no matter how long you've enjoyed this hobby you learn something new all the time. I want to give a round of applause to everyone who participated and especially to Bruno. This is a thread that should go down in history as a classic and to be referred to again and again. In fact, it would be nice to see it published. Great job guys I appreciate this very much


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## jmj_203

TonyBrooklyn said:


> I always said that if there was one cigar blindfolded that could fool me it would be a Johnny -O. Not fully a Cuban in taste it tastes like no other non Cuban as well. But i have been out of the non Cuban game for so long who knows!


I had to bump this, as this thread always is a great read and it shows how much we can be way too stubborn and opinionated. I also recommend, as someone who professes the Superiority of Cuban tobacco so much, shouldn't you be experienced in the NC game to be able to profess Cuban superiority? As someone who has spent a lot of time in NC's and about a year smoking CC's, the NC market has made huge strides to making it an even playing field. I'm loving the CC's I'm smoking, I just don't get people being so Anti one side or the other. If you love cigars, smoke cigars not just one brand over and over. Just my thoughts.


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## avitti

jmj_203 said:


> I had to bump this, as this thread always is a great read and it shows how much we can be way too stubborn and opinionated. I also recommend, as someone who professes the Superiority of Cuban tobacco so much, shouldn't you be experienced in the NC game to be able to profess Cuban superiority? As someone who has spent a lot of time in NC's and about a year smoking CC's, the NC market has made huge strides to making it an even playing field. I'm loving the CC's I'm smoking, I just don't get people being so Anti one side or the other. If you love cigars, smoke cigars not just one brand over and over. Just my thoughts.


To each his own preferences-it didn't take me long at all to decide i liked CC over NC cigars.By what you like-like what you smoke.I have but two gifted Rodrigo's in my collection or i would have none at all..By the way Cuban cigars are not just one brand-and if you enjoy you're NC's-well that just more CC's for those who don't enjoy NC's....


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## asmartbull

jmj_203 said:


> I had to bump this, as this thread always is a great read and it shows how much we can be way too stubborn and opinionated. I also recommend, as someone who professes the Superiority of Cuban tobacco so much, shouldn't you be experienced in the NC game to be able to profess Cuban superiority? As someone who has spent a lot of time in NC's and about a year smoking CC's, the NC market has made huge strides to making it an even playing field. I'm loving the CC's I'm smoking, I just don't get people being so Anti one side or the other. If you love cigars, smoke cigars not just one brand over and over. Just my thoughts.


Why bump a thread with the sole intent to "take a shot" at another member? Resurrecting a thread to call a member "stubborn and opinionated", is in poor taste. If you don't have something positive to contribute, say nothing at all !!


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## TonyBrooklyn

jmj_203 said:


> I had to bump this, as this thread always is a great read and it shows how much we can be way too stubborn and opinionated. I also recommend, as someone who professes the Superiority of Cuban tobacco so much, shouldn't you be experienced in the NC game to be able to profess Cuban superiority? As someone who has spent a lot of time in NC's and about a year smoking CC's, the NC market has made huge strides to making it an even playing field. I'm loving the CC's I'm smoking, I just don't get people being so Anti one side or the other. If you love cigars, smoke cigars not just one brand over and over. Just my thoughts.


Jared
I won't take that poke personally as i know you well and know you mean no harm. But to speak out of ignorance is a sin. So allow me to educate you i have had my fill of non Cuban cigars i have been smoking cigars almost 33 years now. Started in my 20's while in the Corps. I would say last 15 years Cubans exclusively except for the gifted non Cuban. Or occasional trip to a B&M with a friend i meet on the road. So 33 years minus 15 leaves 18 years i have to still smoke Cubans for 3 more years to catch up to the amount of time i smoked non Cubans. 18 years is long enough for me to know that non Cubans are shit an inferior product for my tastes. If you like em you smoke em I'll Pass!


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## Johnny Rock

Sorry to see this thread to Coda this way, a bleak last stanza so to speak.

This was a fun experience for me and quite a few members who did not participate in the challenge.

Tastes and experiences differ.... that's what makes the world go 'round.

Smoke what you like and stick with that. Respect other peoples opinion, or just keep it to yourself.

JMO :ss


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## longburn

This blind taste test was epic. I want to thank everyone who contributed to this, it had done much toward improving my understanding of cigars and their various taste profiles.


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## TonyBrooklyn

I personally always liked David Starbucks taste test better! It represented those that Talk the Talk and Walk the Walk! Many were waiting for the heavy hitters so called experts of Habano's to get a cigar wrong. When they didn't the thread went to the bottom quickly. They were not quick to speak up figuring they would not interject till someone fell on their face. But no one did so they never had their 15 minutes of fame as Andy R.I.P would say!
Karma ain't it a bitch!


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## asmartbull

Since this goes back to 12/10, let's call it a day.....
Perhaps this Winter I can put together a blind test with guys
with all levels of experience....

Closing this up


----------

