# Some Help from EVERYBODY



## One Lonely Smoker (Jan 21, 2005)

Well, everybody that has had contact with the Hoyo de Monterrey Churchills. My only experience with one was a tight draw, and from what I have read, that was EVERYBODY's experience with the Hoyo Churchill. But as I have access to the largest group of knowlegable and rational cigar smokers on the web, I figured I would use one of my helps. I'd like to ASK the audience. These can be had in '00 vintage at a very decent price right now, (before they go up by 150 a box and land in the aged section.)  At the price asked, I could tolerate a golf ball rate of maybe 5-6 a box, high for sure, but still worth the money. However, I must consider the reputation of the cigar on top of the construction issues related to the year of production. THAT tells me to run away. But at 160 a box, isn't it at least worth a try? We're talking 25 Julieta 2's......I have seen this brand/vitola onsale before and always held my ground, because of the perceived draw problems, but this is a good price, indeed. A little advice would help me make up my twisted mind


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## parshooter (Dec 22, 2007)

00's are a crap shoot, in general, not just the RyJs. I've had some that were perfectly fine, others I couldn't suck smoke out of with a Dyson (from the same box). I tend to steer away from them, just because there are other years out there and I'd rather spend the extra few bucks and be more assured of getting better quality construction and taste. :2


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## One Lonely Smoker (Jan 21, 2005)

BUY!? B-B-B-B BUSHWOOD?

I think it might just be a typo or a braino, but you said RyJ's, I am talking about Hoyos...but no matter, the Hoyos are more notorious for tight rolls than any RyJ, so point is still way valid.


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## parshooter (Dec 22, 2007)

One Lonely Smoker said:


> We're talking 25 Julieta 2's......


 This is where I got RyJ from :r


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## Mystophales (Aug 20, 2007)

I have never had one from 2000 but I have had 4 CC Hoyo's and every damn one of them had a tight ass draw. 2 of them I was so frustrated with it I tossed them...I thought I was just extremely unlucky but I have stayed away from them ever since.


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## One Lonely Smoker (Jan 21, 2005)

parshooter said:


> This is where I got RyJ from :r


I need to use fewer technical terms, the Julieta 2 is the vitola de galera, or the size. If you already knew that I aplolgize for bringing it up, but you know me, I never miss a chance, lol. For Myphostaphales, I butchered that one, this was one of the first CC's I ever actually paid for, bought it in Windsor, Ontario at Mecca for smokers, LCDH. I saved it back a few months, because I had smuggled it so tenderly, and I held a great reverence for it. So one day I took it to "The Finish Line" in NO, an OTB parlor, and upon lighting it, I knew I had made a mistake not bringing more cigars. Dead tight. One bad experience SHOULDN'T color a whole cigars rep, but every review I have ever read tells me they ALL draw poorly. So why do I make an entire thread to tell me something I already know. I guess I am looking for ONE person to say, Oh, no, I never have any trouble with THESE. Or one person to say, draw or no draw, 160 a box is too good to pass up. :r


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## parshooter (Dec 22, 2007)

You also gotta ask yourself: "Self, why are these only $160 a box?" :ss


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## hamncheese (Oct 5, 2006)

parshooter said:


> You also gotta ask yourself: "Self, why are these only $160 a box?" :ss


Truth :ss


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## croatan (Mar 23, 2005)

Buy 'em. They're a great value at that price. So far, I'm 8 for 8 on good draws from those (from two different boxes).


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## One Lonely Smoker (Jan 21, 2005)

parshooter said:


> You also gotta ask yourself: "Self, why are these only $160 a box?" :ss


Actually, this is not what I would ask myself based on the fact that in a VERY similar situation  99 dollar a box Punch Coronas were spectacular. They had not had the punch aged out of them and they were very nicely aged and plume covered and musty and sweet. I was doing cartwheels over that deal. No I have no problems whatsoever with the potential for disappointment on poor handling.
With that said, every deal is different, but that is not something I asked myself at all. CERTAINLY a VALID point! But I am not worried.


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## Coffee Grounds (Feb 14, 2007)

I find it hard to believe you able to buy a box of these churchills for $160.


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## zipa (May 24, 2008)

Coffee Grounds said:


> I find it hard to believe you able to buy a box of these churchills for $160.


A box of 25 HdM Churchills retail for ~$500 in Spain and ~$350 in Switzerland, so yeah, I'd be wary of such a "bargain". Remember, if it sounds too good to be true...


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## dayplanner (Dec 11, 1997)

There are no questions on authenticity, but there are a few lingering questions on draw.


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## parshooter (Dec 22, 2007)

Coffee Grounds said:


> I find it hard to believe you able to buy a box of these churchills for $160.


 I don't. And to answer my own question: 99/00 were suspect years for Habanos quality. Many people know that, therefore, there are stocks of cigars available for these years. It all boils down to supply and demand.


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## dayplanner (Dec 11, 1997)

Coffee Grounds said:


> I find it hard to believe you able to buy a box of these churchills for $160.


I don't. I have two boxes and have had mixed luck from the first box. I've smoked maybe fifteen or so and had five that were rolled tight. Otherwise good cigars.


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## 68TriShield (May 15, 2006)

croatan said:


> Buy 'em. They're a great value at that price. So far, I'm 8 for 8 on good draws from those (from two different boxes).


I've enjoyed mine too James.A couple were a little stiffer then I'd like but very tasty. 
Go for it!


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## DonJefe (Dec 1, 2003)

Had one last night that smoked like a dream!:tu


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## hk3 (Jan 29, 2008)

One Lonely Smoker said:


> Actually, this is not what I would ask myself based on the fact that in a VERY similar situation  99 dollar a box Punch Coronas were spectacular. They had not had the punch aged out of them and they were very nicely aged and plume covered and musty and sweet. I was doing cartwheels over that deal. No I have no problems whatsoever with the potential for disappointment on poor handling.
> With that said, every deal is different, but that is not something I asked myself at all. CERTAINLY a VALID point! But I am not worried.


PM me your addy and you can decide on your own what you think of them.


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## Fredster (Jan 26, 2004)

I've had bad luck with Hoyo C-Hills in the past. Had a box of 97's that were almost all plugged. 

I have not had 00 Hoyo C-Hills, but I will say I have had very good luck with 99 and 00 cigars in general lately. I have Romeo C-Hills and H Upmann Monarchs from 00 and both have excellent construction. I think all of the 99 and 00's have been inspected and most vendors have weeded out the bad ones. So my advice is for 160.00, I'd buy.:2


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## 68TriShield (May 15, 2006)

I just nubbed a 2000 Churchill...mmm mmm mmm :tu


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## romwarrior (Jan 16, 2008)

If you don't want a whole box, the singles just went on sale. Minimum 5. Not quite as cheap per stick but a way to sample them.

**EDIT**

Looks like the singles are 01's versus the boxes that are 2000.


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## okierock (Feb 24, 2006)

At $160 you will still be doing cartwheels over this deal if half of them are plugged. These are great cigars.

Send em my way if you decide your out.:dr


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## One Lonely Smoker (Jan 21, 2005)

Wow, what a great bunch of responses! My first thought is "Who in their right mind would pay 500 dollars for a box of Hoyo Churchills?" But all of the responses that talked about tight draws, your experience matches mine completely. I have never had an Hoyo Churchill that DIDN'T draw too tight. But I am also heartened to see that a number of people I respect think the way I do, that at 160 a box for OLD Hoyo Churchills, you'd still be turning cartwheels if 1/2 of the box was tight. I tend to almost agree with that, I am thinking more like 1/3, though.:r
I also think that this is a real crapshoot, but as Fredster said, all of these boxes have been re-inspected and even though they weren't draw-tested or anything, the appearance of every box ought to be at some minimum standard of quality, I would think. I for one am really happy for the chance to go against conventional wisdom and give the 99's 00s and 01s a chance. Their reputation worldwide has given us a chance to steal them at a bargain, and our own collective knowlege helps us realize that in some ways, these "bad" cigars are almost a myth. Every 01 box I have has been excellent over the last 5-6 years, and I KNOW people have had trouble with their construction and their appearance, but this has not been a problem for me yet. So to get a crack at them at almost half price in some cases is just a windfall. Let people grumble and speculate on their true nature, I have read and experienced enough to tell me it's MORE than worth the risk. YAY, cigars!
Thanks everyone. If nothing else, perhaps this will cause even the naysayers to get together with friends for a couple of box splits.


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## One Lonely Smoker (Jan 21, 2005)

You know what's funny, I can almost guarantee that after I get ahold of a few boxes of these, I will immediately wish I had done it twice! As with the Punch Coronas, no doubt it will be too late by then.


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## parshooter (Dec 22, 2007)

Let us know how they are. I'll be interested in your reviews :ss


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