# Sick of lousy draw cigars



## fiatster (Jan 8, 2013)

I'm looking for some input on inexpensive everyday cigars that have a good draw and decent smoke output. I simply want a few brands that I can keep as a "no brainer" smoke. The flavor or complexity is not an issue for these sticks. I know for the price range these cigars will not be the best, but I do want a cigar that has a nice easy draw. I am tired of buying sticks and finding out that I need to hook them up to a Hoover to get any smoke out of them. I just want something to grab as a so called yardgar for when I don't have the time to enjoy some of my better sticks. I'm looking at a price range of $30 to $40 a bundle of 20. If anyone has had any experience with sticks such as these and can suggest some I would be very grateful. Most of these sticks are only offered in bundles and not 5 packs (although if there are any that might be offered in one of the 5 pack auctions that would be good too) so if I can avoid buying a bundle and having 19 left over because of poor draw I would be happy. Again, flavor and complexity are not the top priority for these.
Some of the ones that I have tried and found to be terrible on the draw are Augusto Reyes Factory Selects, Andros, Dominique and Maroma Dulce.
Thanks for the help.


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## Scott W. (Jul 10, 2008)

Might not be the sticks, might be your humidor, what I'd your humidity level?


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## fiatster (Jan 8, 2013)

I keep 60% HF beads in my humidors.


scottw said:


> Might not be the sticks, might be your humidor, what I'd your humidity level?


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## fiatster (Jan 8, 2013)

A lot of my better sticks are fine, but the cheaper ones are the problem. So I think the humidity level is ok.


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## Shemp75 (May 26, 2012)

You get what you pay for.


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## nikesupremedunk (Jun 29, 2012)

Interesting...never had those cigars but I haven't really had any problems with draw on NC's. Hope you find what you're looking for.


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## Scott W. (Jul 10, 2008)

fiatster said:


> A lot of my better sticks are fine, but the cheaper ones are the problem. So I think the humidity level is ok.


I'd have to agree. On CI, there are some good bundles for 40 to 50 bucks. The GH 2002s are pretty damn good for a yard gar or for just hanging out when you don't want to tuck into a higher priced stick.


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## Dio (Nov 17, 2012)

Why don't you try Olor Fuente?



fiatster said:


> I'm looking for some input on inexpensive everyday cigars that have a good draw and decent smoke output. I simply want a few brands that I can keep as a "no brainer" smoke. The flavor or complexity is not an issue for these sticks. I know for the price range these cigars will not be the best, but I do want a cigar that has a nice easy draw. I am tired of buying sticks and finding out that I need to hook them up to a Hoover to get any smoke out of them. I just want something to grab as a so called yardgar for when I don't have the time to enjoy some of my better sticks. I'm looking at a price range of $30 to $40 a bundle of 20. If anyone has had any experience with sticks such as these and can suggest some I would be very grateful. Most of these sticks are only offered in bundles and not 5 packs (although if there are any that might be offered in one of the 5 pack auctions that would be good too) so if I can avoid buying a bundle and having 19 left over because of poor draw I would be happy. Again, flavor and complexity are not the top priority for these.
> Some of the ones that I have tried and found to be terrible on the draw are Augusto Reyes Factory Selects, Andros, Dominique and Maroma Dulce.
> Thanks for the help.


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## fiatster (Jan 8, 2013)

I have one or two brands that are inexpensive but with a good draw but would like a few more choices. But thanks for your input.


Shemp75 said:


> You get what you pay for.


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## fiatster (Jan 8, 2013)

Thanks for the suggestion Scott.


scottw said:


> I'd have to agree. On CI, there are some good bundles for 40 to 50 bucks. The GH 2002s are pretty damn good for a yard gar or for just hanging out when you don't want to tuck into a higher priced stick.


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## fiatster (Jan 8, 2013)

I'll put them on my list. Thanks Zhenyu.


Dio said:


> Why don't you try Olor Fuente?


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## CarnivorousPelican (Jan 25, 2013)

5 Vegas Classic and Tampa Sweet Hearts no 500... I haven't ran across any construction issues with either of those yet...


The gran habano 2002 vintage you are going to run into draw issues...

If you like PM me an address I will bomb you a sampler of GH 2002 vintage, 5 Vegas Classic, Tampa Sweet Hearts and some Ovverruns.. you can give them a try see what you think... I need to get rid of some of these... I bought GH 2002 vintage and am stuck with them.. I dislike the taste and can't stand draw issues, the ovverruns I didn't like the taste but had good draw, the Tampa Sweet Hearts I smoke once and awhile but still again the taste isn't my preference, the 5 vegas classic I can stand the taste and I guess it is a ok work cigar...


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## Scott W. (Jul 10, 2008)

CarnivorousPelican said:


> 5 Vegas Classic and Tampa Sweet Hearts no 500... I haven't ran across any construction issues with either of those yet...
> 
> The gran habano 2002 vintage you are going to run into draw issues...
> 
> If you like PM me an address I will bomb you a sampler of GH 2002 vintage, 5 Vegas Classic, Tampa Sweet Hearts and some Ovverruns.. you can give them a try see what you think... I need to get rid of some of these... I bought GH 2002 vintage and am stuck with them.. I dislike the taste and can't stand draw issues, the ovverruns I didn't like the taste but had good draw, the Tampa Sweet Hearts I smoke once and awhile but still again the taste isn't my preference, the 5 vegas classic I can stand the taste and I guess it is a ok work cigar...


Sorry you ran into issues with the Ghs, I've smoked about 25 or so of them without a single problem. Damn bro


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## jfdiii (Nov 12, 2010)

If flavor and complexity is not an issue, looking for a no maintenance (pre cut) always dependable knockaround cigar that is UNDER your price range, then consider:

"Principes cigars are low-cost, good-quality bundle cigars presented in a package of 25 Petit Coronas. Machine-made at Tabacalera La Aurora in the D.R. with mild Dominican tobacco trimmings, homogenized binder, and tasty Cameroon wrappers, Principes offer a smooth and flavorful 'everyday' cigar."--Famous Smokes

"La Aurora cigars are made in the oldest factory in the Dominican Republic – established in 1903 with a rich 100 year tradition of cigar making. Popular among native Dominicans, they’re made from the trimmings of the regular La Aurora cigar production and are the pride of the Dominican cigar industry. A short-filler smoke offering a flavorful medium-bodied taste and smooth draw."--CI

The **** wrapper is super tolerant of humidity extremes, and they are individually packaged and sealed. This is not a sit on the deck with a single malt watching the sun go down cigar by any means, but if you don't like them you will have a friend that does, and at less a buck a stick, it's worth taking the chance, IMO.


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## B-daddy (Oct 29, 2012)

I've bought these in that price range and have been happy with them. If I had to pick just a couple, I'd go with the Bahia Maduro, Nica Libre, and the Cu-Avanna. All of these have performed perfectly and consistently. Oh, forgot the flor de oliva, good too. 

5 vegas gold maduro torpedo $ 1.55 
Cu-Avanna Maduro Toro $ 1.40 
Flor De Oliva Robusto $ 1.25 
Bahia Maduro Panchos $ 0.95 
Nica Libra Diplimatico $ 1.40 
Pinar Del Rio Oscuro Toro $ 2.00 
Gran Habano Vintage 2002 Robusto $ 1.80 
Gran Habano Azteca El Jaguar $ 1.80 
Cuba Libre One Toro $ 2.00 
5 Vegas Series A Archetype $ 1.80 
La Vieja Habana Connecticut Chateau Corona $ 1.80 
Blue Label Corona $ 1.00 
Xikar HC Series Connecticut Robusto $ 1.80 
E.P. Carillo New Wave Gran Via (Churchill) $ 2.00


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## stonecutter2 (Jul 12, 2012)

Padron cigars come in a variety of price ranges. They've almost always had a very open draw for me, yet are packed well with tobacco.


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## fiatster (Jan 8, 2013)

Great list! Thanks Brian. I actually have the Pinar Del Rio Oscuro Toro, Gran Habano Vintage 2002 Robusto, Blue Label Corona in my humidor, but have not yet tried them. I got them about a month ago and letting them rest. I also have an order of the Flor De Olivias that I'm waiting for. Now I anxious to give them a try. 


B-daddy said:


> I've bought these in that price range and have been happy with them. If I had to pick just a couple, I'd go with the Bahia Maduro, Nica Libre, and the Cu-Avanna. All of these have performed perfectly and consistently. Oh, forgot the flor de oliva, good too.
> 
> 5 vegas gold maduro torpedo $ 1.55
> Cu-Avanna Maduro Toro $ 1.40
> ...


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## huskers (Oct 2, 2012)

You should invest in a draw tool!!

I've even found that higher grade cigars are plugged sometimes.

Draw tool for the win!


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## fiatster (Jan 8, 2013)

Yeah, I got one. It helps on the occasional bad stick, but I just like to be able to avoid the brands that seem to be consistently hard drawers. A lot of good suggestions to try in the tread. 


huskers said:


> You should invest in a draw tool!!
> 
> I've even found that higher grade cigars are plugged sometimes.
> 
> Draw tool for the win!


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## B-daddy (Oct 29, 2012)

fiatster said:


> Great list! Thanks Brian. I actually have the Pinar Del Rio Oscuro Toro, Gran Habano Vintage 2002 Robusto, Blue Label Corona in my humidor, but have not yet tried them. I got them about a month ago and letting them rest. I also have an order of the Flor De Olivias that I'm waiting for. Now I anxious to give them a try.


No problem, brother. Us cheap-asses need to look out for eachother. Just smoked a Gran Hab Vin '02 about an hour ago. Been a while. Forgot how much I liked them.


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## A144 (Jul 9, 2012)

Give the Garo Double Habano a try. They're my go to "yard gar" right now. My buddy Mitch and myself have smoked a dozen or so and haven't had a stuck one yet. Flavors are good, just not complex. Burn is usually outstanding for what they cost. They're about $2-2.50 a stick retail, but you can get them for less on CBid.


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## jazzboypro (Jul 30, 2012)

Here is what i have for everyday cigars in order of preference:

Alcazar #1 Maduro 8x52
Flor De oliva Maduro Churchill 7x50
GR Special Red Label Churchill 7x48
Perdomo Fresco Bundle Giganti Maduro 8x52
Indian Tabac Classic Chief 7.25x52

I have not yet made up my mind about the Indian Tabac, for i will sure buy any of the others again especially the Alcazar

Good luck to you


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## fiatster (Jan 8, 2013)

I did pick up a 5 pack of these on cbid a short time ago. I haven't tried them yet. Sounds good.


A144 said:


> Give the Garo Double Habano a try. They're my go to "yard gar" right now. My buddy Mitch and myself have smoked a dozen or so and haven't had a stuck one yet. Flavors are good, just not complex. Burn is usually outstanding for what they cost. They're about $2-2.50 a stick retail, but you can get them for less on CBid.


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## fiatster (Jan 8, 2013)

I have 1 Alcazar #1 Maduro and a flight pack of the Indian Tabacs. Again, not yet tried them. I know this sounds nuts that I have many of these but haven't tried them yet. The reason is the cold weather here has kept me from smoking any new sticks because I want to sit down and really enjoy them while I try them out. BUT...the weather is improving and I'll be digging into all of these suggestions soon. I really find it great that many of your suggestions I already have in my humidor. Many thanks to all for the help.



jazzboypro said:


> Here is what i have for everyday cigars in order of preference:
> 
> Alcazar #1 [/URL] Maduro 8x52
> Flor De oliva Maduro Churchill 7x50
> ...


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## purepoker (Sep 15, 2011)

fiatster said:


> I'm looking for some input on inexpensive everyday cigars that have a good draw and decent smoke output. I simply want a few brands that I can keep as a "no brainer" smoke. The flavor or complexity is not an issue for these sticks. I know for the price range these cigars will not be the best, but I do want a cigar that has a nice easy draw. I am tired of buying sticks and finding out that I need to hook them up to a Hoover to get any smoke out of them. I just want something to grab as a so called yardgar for when I don't have the time to enjoy some of my better sticks. I'm looking at a price range of $30 to $40 a bundle of 20. If anyone has had any experience with sticks such as these and can suggest some I would be very grateful. Most of these sticks are only offered in bundles and not 5 packs (although if there are any that might be offered in one of the 5 pack auctions that would be good too) so if I can avoid buying a bundle and having 19 left over because of poor draw I would be happy. Again, flavor and complexity are not the top priority for these.
> Some of the ones that I have tried and found to be terrible on the draw are Augusto Reyes Factory Selects, Andros, Dominique and Maroma Dulce.
> Thanks for the help.


Nica Libre has always performed well, great burn, draw, and decent smoke volume and flavor. They fit your budget as well... Every vitola is decent...


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## SteveSatch (Aug 1, 2012)

If the OP doesn't take you up on the offer I will! : )



CarnivorousPelican said:


> 5 Vegas Classic and Tampa Sweet Hearts no 500... I haven't ran across any construction issues with either of those yet...
> 
> The gran habano 2002 vintage you are going to run into draw issues...
> 
> If you like PM me an address I will bomb you a sampler of GH 2002 vintage, 5 Vegas Classic, Tampa Sweet Hearts and some Ovverruns.. you can give them a try see what you think... I need to get rid of some of these... I bought GH 2002 vintage and am stuck with them.. I dislike the taste and can't stand draw issues, the ovverruns I didn't like the taste but had good draw, the Tampa Sweet Hearts I smoke once and awhile but still again the taste isn't my preference, the 5 vegas classic I can stand the taste and I guess it is a ok work cigar...


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## CarnivorousPelican (Jan 25, 2013)

PM me an Address.. Anyone else up for Pelican's po boy Sampler?


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## KcJason1 (Oct 20, 2010)

Lower your RH to 60-65!


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## fiatster (Jan 8, 2013)

My humi is stocked with 60% HF beads.


KcJason1 said:


> Lower your RH to 60-65!


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## KcJason1 (Oct 20, 2010)

fiatster said:


> My humi is stocked with 60% HF beads.


HF beads are garbage.. that's your problem!


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## CarnivorousPelican (Jan 25, 2013)

KcJason1 said:


> HF beads are garbage.. that's your problem!


You should become a sales rep for Boveda and Kitty litter...  Which I am moving that way... I am very happy using Boveda mainly and using the beads just as a buffer... The next wineador 100+ bottle I am going to have to go with Kitty litter, HCM, Boveda and or use tupperware... HF prices are insane... I have to say it... Are you just using Kitty litter or have you tried the HCM beads yet?


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## fiatster (Jan 8, 2013)

My hygrometer reads 61% Maybe the HF beads and hygrometer have teamed up t get me 


KcJason1 said:


> HF beads are garbage.. that's your problem!


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## fiatster (Jan 8, 2013)

I have KL but have not used it because I read here that 60%-65% is the best to shoot for. Doesn't KL come out to closer to 70%?


CarnivorousPelican said:


> You should become a sales rep for Boveda and Kitty litter...  Which I am moving that way... I am very happy using Boveda mainly and using the beads just as a buffer... The next wineador 100+ bottle I am going to have to go with Kitty litter, HCM, Boveda and or use tupperware... HF prices are insane... I have to say it... Are you just using Kitty litter or have you tried the HCM beads yet?


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## CarnivorousPelican (Jan 25, 2013)

fiatster said:


> I have KL but have not used it because I read here that 60%-65% is the best to shoot for. Doesn't KL come out to closer to 70%?


I believe you train it from what I understand from the forums and reading etc.. It is used as a humidity buffer ( just like beads) which means it doesn't regulate the RH ..

This is the best doc I have found that doesn't hit the math hardcore..

http://talasonline.com/photos/instructions/silica_gel_info.pdf



> As the exhibition case gains or loses humidity because of leakage, the hygroscopic materials within the case
> must gain or lose some moisture content in order to remain in equilibrium with the RH of the surrounding air.
> The water gained or lost by these materials offsets most of the expected change in RH with in the case. In effect, these materials act as
> buffers to slow down the rate of change in RH within the exhibition case.


So I guess think of it like this the silica gets to a equalized moisture content with the environment.. when the environment RH goes up or down the silica also changes with the environment because it has a equalize with the surrounding environment. So if the RH goes down the silica releases some "water/moisture" which slows the lowering of the humidity, and if the humidity goes up the silica absorbs some moisture slowing the rise of humidity. The salts affect the absorption rate that is what I understand so far and depending on the hygroscopic material etc.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hygroscopic

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humidity_buffering

It makes sense when you think of it like a piece of bread that is wet and dries because the environment is dryer but as the bread dries the moisture goes into the environment eventually the environment and bread will equalize if it is enclosed... Just imagine moisture leaving a wet piece of bread into a closed box well that moisture has to go somewhere and Vice-versa... There is a bunch of math and heavy crap I can't believe how complicated freaken humidity is and science doesn't even fully understand every aspect of humidity moisture etc ...

Hence I can take 70% beads and dry or wet them x amount and they will lower or raise the environment relative humidity y amount but it won't reach 70%... Or how you can oversaturate your beads and it goes over 70 rh % then it will release moisture until the environment and the beads reach some equilibrium which may not be 70 % rh... So with buffers you may have to tinker with it to find the equilibrium you want... I am assuming it is best to keep it within a drift range so it doesn't get to out of wack.. Hence why I like boveda it seems to maintain a stable RH because from what I understand it is more like a saturated salt solution ( is that correct to say ? ) the boveda is going to attempt to get the environment to equalize with it and if not it dries out or I assume has some apex it reaches for maximum saturation dunno I am not a scientist... I been using Boveda+Beads and I don't have to jack with it much at all but am pretty sure you could replace HF beads with HCM beads or Kitty Litter.. You will need more kitty litter than HCM beads because from what I understand the HCM beads are more hygroscopic if I can say it like that than the silica used in the kitty litter, and the price points I haven't went over I am sure some scientist or math wiz on here can calculate it out


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## CarnivorousPelican (Jan 25, 2013)

By the time you understand the mathematics involved in relative humidity and moisture content etc you will be a full blown meteorologist and can start your own weather channel..  All from smoking cigars... I knew there was some education involved and I am quite disgusted that I now know that much about moisture... That is more than I would like to know.. I use to believe that moisture was the work of the spirits but notnow cigars have totally ruined my ignorance which I believe I will gratefully retain some ignorance... Because before you know it I am going to make a weather machine and its going to rain on everyone except me and I will charge people not to be rained on then when they are all paying not to be rained on I will make a giant drought which then they will have to pay a cancellation fee for the none rainy service, but then a change of service fee that will be spread out over their 5 year weather contract.  That's just how I roll...


Anyways that is atleast how I understand it now the hygroscopic materials and the pressure / moisture equalization and the grand finch that lives in the red hole I don't know about but am sure others know more than I on all of this...


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## KcJason1 (Oct 20, 2010)

fiatster said:


> I have KL but have not used it because I read here that 60%-65% is the best to shoot for. Doesn't KL come out to closer to 70%?


It can range from 50-70 out of the package.. If its to dry add a spray or two of DW.. If its to wet put it in the oven and dry out.

Mine came 55.. About 3 sprays and it now sits at 61.


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## KcJason1 (Oct 20, 2010)

CarnivorousPelican said:


> By the time you understand the mathematics involved in relative humidity and moisture content etc you will be a full blown meteorologist and can start your own weather channel..  All from smoking cigars... I knew there was some education involved and I am quite disgusted that I now know that much about moisture... That is more than I would like to know.. I use to believe that moisture was the work of the spirits but notnow cigars have totally ruined my ignorance which I believe I will gratefully retain some ignorance... Because before you know it I am going to make a weather machine and its going to rain on everyone except me and I will charge people not to be rained on then when they are all paying not to be rained on I will make a giant drought which then they will have to pay a cancellation fee for the none rainy service, but then a change of service fee that will be spread out over their 5 year weather contract.  That's just how I roll...
> 
> Anyways that is atleast how I understand it now the hygroscopic materials and the pressure / moisture equalization and the grand finch that lives in the red hole I don't know about but am sure others know more than I on all of this...


It's not rocket science like people try to make it out to be!


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## CarnivorousPelican (Jan 25, 2013)

KcJason1 said:


> It's not rocket science like people try to make it out to be!


That is called Sarcasm and a joke...


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## circadianswing (Dec 23, 2012)

I feel the op on bad draw... I like aurora 107 in any size, maybe out of price range but a quality smoke! For a cheap smoke try thompson's in house corojo cubano torpedo... A warm draw and good herf!


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## SteveSatch (Aug 1, 2012)

Tough draw really takes away from the smoking experience for me.


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## purepoker (Sep 15, 2011)

Most Rocky Patel cigars i've smoke also have an easy draw... 1992 can be found cheap, and put out a decent amount of smoke with a nice draw...

QUOTE=fiatster;3830818]I'm looking for some input on inexpensive everyday cigars that have a good draw and decent smoke output. I simply want a few brands that I can keep as a "no brainer" smoke. The flavor or complexity is not an issue for these sticks. I know for the price range these cigars will not be the best, but I do want a cigar that has a nice easy draw. I am tired of buying sticks and finding out that I need to hook them up to a Hoover to get any smoke out of them. I just want something to grab as a so called yardgar for when I don't have the time to enjoy some of my better sticks. I'm looking at a price range of $30 to $40 a bundle of 20. If anyone has had any experience with sticks such as these and can suggest some I would be very grateful. Most of these sticks are only offered in bundles and not 5 packs (although if there are any that might be offered in one of the 5 pack auctions that would be good too) so if I can avoid buying a bundle and having 19 left over because of poor draw I would be happy. Again, flavor and complexity are not the top priority for these.
Some of the ones that I have tried and found to be terrible on the draw are Augusto Reyes Factory Selects, Andros, Dominique and Maroma Dulce.
Thanks for the help.[/QUOTE]


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## ehk (Aug 21, 2012)

The last bad draws I had were some Liga Dirty Rats.....about a month and a half ago. This was my 1st box of Dirty Rats and my first taste of them. The first 2 I picked was plugged in a bad way. My friend was half way done his while I was 3 cm into the cigar. Even using a poker didn't help either cigar. Had to put it out and grabbed another with the same result, so I gave up for the night. Thought about taking the tabacco out, buy a pipe, and smoke it, but it was too much trouble. About 2 weeks later, I finally had one that was alright and it was an pretty good smoke. Hope there aren't any other plugged Rats in the box....6 left fingers crossed.


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## Jwr0201 (Apr 11, 2013)

Try PDR Capa Maduro. entubado rolling...excellent draw and smooth as silk. Very attractive price as well. I've turned several friends onto these with all positive results.
RR


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## Jwr0201 (Apr 11, 2013)

Speaking of sticks with lousy draw... Patel Edge Maduro was my favorite for a couple of years. Last bought a half dozen 5 or 6 mos ago. Draw on every one was like sucking a pea thru a straw. I'm done with Patels - too costly to put up with that garbage.
RR


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