# Women and Cigars



## docruger (Feb 12, 2009)

I copied this from MR BILLS PIPE AND TOBACCO COMPANY. web sight

Ladies, take heart - you are not alone. This section of our Web Site is devoted to those who have chosen to stand out as unique cigar smokers enjoying a traditionally male pleasure.

There are quite a few famous women who smoke cigars: 


 Whoopi Goldberg
 Bette Midler
 Linda Evangelista
 Madonna
 Sharon Stone
 Demi Moore
 Jodie Foster
 Ellen Barkin
 
This is by no means a complete list. The late Lucille Ball was also a cigar smoker. And like the statistics for the rest of the population of cigar smokers, the percentage is rising.

It used to be a rare event to see a woman puffing a cigar. Cigar smoking has traditionally been viewed as a strictly male endeavor, and a woman smoking a cigar was looked upon as an anomaly. Today, however, more and more women are smoking cigars. Although they only make up a small percentage compared to men, female cigar aficionados are becoming more and more of a familiar sight.

According to the Cigar Association of America, a study conducted in the mid-1980s showed that less than one tenth of one percent of cigar smokers were women. Currently, the Cigar Association estimates that women account for up to two percent of cigar smokers. With about 10 million to 12 million people smoking cigars today compared to 8 million to 10 million during the time of the first study, according to the Cigar Association, there now could be as many as one quarter of a million women cigar smokers compared to as few as 8-10,000 in the mid-1980s.

Cigar smoking is the new chic. There's even a book written by Tomima Edmark; *Cigar Chic: **A Woman's Perspective, *offering everything women need to know about smoking a cigar.


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## Cypress (Jun 27, 2007)

That is great that women are getting more and more into cigars.


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## Hemingway in Havana (Feb 27, 2009)

docruger said:


> There are quite a few famous women who smoke cigars:
> 
> 
> Whoopi Goldberg
> ...


Devil's advocate:twisted:: Just because these women all appeared on the cover of Cigar Aficionado does _not_ mean that they are cigar smokers. They appeared on the cover in the middle of "the boom" and I'm sure it was probably just for publicity...:biggrin1:


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## RYJ 08 (Jul 24, 2008)

Would love if my gf would take it up trying to get her to come to cuba with me


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## PerpetualNoob (Sep 9, 2008)

Women and cigars? I'll take one of each, please!


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## Herf N Turf (Dec 31, 2008)

PerpetualNoob said:


> Women and cigars? I'll take one of each, please!


Be careful what you wish for...

"Honey, have you seen that Opus X"? :biggrin1::biggrin1:


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## Acesfull (Dec 9, 2007)

My gf smokes with me from time to time... yeah she's that awesome


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## Tarks (Mar 3, 2009)

I feel that cigar smoking is a man thing. Watching a woman smoke does not turn my crank.


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## ghost (Jun 8, 2006)

Herf N Turf said:


> Be careful what you wish for...
> 
> "Honey, have you seen that Opus X"? :biggrin1::biggrin1:


Haha! Alll sorts of trouble with this one!

Actually, the wife and I enjoy an AVO on our anniversary. This is the only time she partakes in a cigar.


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## dinoa2 (Feb 7, 2008)

There are quite a few famous women who smoke cigars: 

Whoopi Goldberg 
Bette Midler 
Linda Evangelista 
Madonna 
Sharon Stone 
Demi Moore 
Jodie Foster 
Ellen Barkin 
well lets call them up and ask them if they smoke.

someone said they just posed on cover for publicity.


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## karmaz00 (Dec 5, 2007)

a new one, is katy perry....new singer was smkoing cigars at a party....


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## docruger (Feb 12, 2009)

Famous Cigar Smoking Women
Sharon Stone has been a "Poster Woman" for Cigar Aficianado Magazine for some time now. She is also a member and smokes cigars regularly



Catherine the Great was born in 1729. She loved smoking fine cigars and bands are her invention. She insisted on a band to keep her royal fingers from getting stained with tobacco.





Marlene Dietrich played the Russian ruler in the film "The Scarlet Empress." The actress was often seen smoking cigars.





Gertrude Stein shared her love of good literature and love of good cigars with her friends, Alice B. Toklas, Ernest Hemingway and F. Scott Fitzgerald.





The poet Amy Lowell, enjoyed a fine cigar. Although, she smoked in private, it was well known that they belonged to a Lesbian, cigar smoking group called the George Sand Society. It was a literary group where the women would gather, read, smoke cigars and discuss the books. It still exists today.







Bonnie Parker, of Bonnie and Clyde infamy, and Annie Oakley, relieved some of the stress of their jobs.. by smoking cigars.







Madonna, is a woman with hernamein the music charts... and cigars in herrelaxation kit.









Demi Moore found her way to relax with Arturo Fuenta's Hemingway Classics.









Daryl Hannah picks up a stogie from time to time. As a matter of fact...she never misses an opportunity to enjoy an Ashton.









Jennifer Aniston lights one up at some of the better known Cigar Lounges in LA. Check out Hamilton's in Santa Monica sometime!











J-Lo with a cigar? Oh yeah! Another woman who knows where to find a few minutes to relax. J-Lo enjoys a mild Panatela.









Our list would not be complete without Jodie Foster. She knows her way around a good cigar. She says it helps to slow her down and gives her a minute to think and contemplate her next moves.









Whoopi Goldberg is all over a good Davidoff cigar. She never clips the tip...she uses a punch! She's been smoking cigars since she was a kid!









Selma Hayek has had a fondness for cigars since she was little as well. She prefers the mild smoke only Cubans can provide.


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## MrMusicMan1 (Sep 5, 2008)

Interesting from CA It's long (part 1):

Aficionadas: Women and Their Cigars

by Gwen Martin and Evan J. Elkin

"These gentlemen gave us some seegars...these are leaves of tobacco rolled up in such a manner that they serve both for a pipe and for tobacco itself. These the ladies, as well as gentlemen, are very fond of smoking."

-John Cockburn, English traveler in Costa Rica, 1735

"A cigar numbs sorrows and fills the solitary hours with a million gracious images."

-George Sand, 1867

"For me, cigar smoking is part of the ritual of the fine art of living."

-Helena Stigeler, president and cofounder, Michel Perrenoud International, Inc., 1995

"I smoked my first cigar during a business trip to South America," says Dallas-based businesswoman, inventor, author and patent-law expert Tomima Edmark. "I had just returned from a dinner given by one of the embassies in Santiago, Chile, and I was sitting in the hotel lobby with a group of 12 American businessmen when they, en masse, began lighting up Cuban cigars. I was intrigued by the sight. One of them offered me a cigar, but in a very teasing way, never expecting me to accept."

Having grown up with five brothers, Edmark knew a dare when she saw one. "They were surprised at first when I said, 'Sure.' But they loved the fact that I joined them, and they loved showing me the ropes. I have to say I didn't enjoy the taste right away, but I immediately understood the pleasure in the ritual--cutting it, holding it, gesturing with it."

Edmark says that her cigar smoking attracted the attention of a number of other men in the hotel lobby that evening. "Some of the men in our group called my attention to a Latin gentleman who they said had been staring at me amorously for some time," Edmark says with a laugh. "The man eventually approached me and said, 'I've been looking all my life for a woman who smokes a cigar.' I declined his invitation to dinner."

Edmark's story may resonate with other cigar aficionadas. It sums up the whole range of reactions that a cigar-smoking woman is bound to elicit. Confronted with a woman smoking a cigar, men

may fall back on familiar ways of relating with women in an attempt to "normalize" a disorienting experience: "Let me show you how," like a boss or father; "Let me tease you," like an older brother; "Let me sweep you off your feet and seduce you," like a macho man; and occasionally, "Let me do this with you," like a co-conspirator and a buddy. A woman's desire to smoke cigars is threatening to some men, comical to others. Some men find it titillating and sexy; for other men it can be an initiation rite, a way to break down gender barriers and welcome a woman into the group.

It can also be just plain shocking: Author and editor Colleen Mogil, 31, of Philadelphia's Main Line, once caused a car crash by smoking a cigar. "I was driving home, cigar in hand. I stopped at a light and noticed a man in the next lane staring at me with a look that said, 'Is that lady smoking a cigar, or am I seeing things?' As he tried to figure it out, he drove right into the car in front of him."

In the words of journalist/supermodel Veronica Webb, "It's fascinating to see a woman with a cigar because it's about staking a claim. And it often takes people off guard." Webb should know: The BBC-affiliated reporter, who smoked her first cigar with Cigar Aficionado editor and publisher Marvin Shanken, recently wrote an article on cigars for Esquire. "I was intimidated," she says. "Cigars are one of the great male secrets, and here I was writing about them."

Women, it seems, just aren't supposed to like cigars. We all know the cliché: An exasperated wife looks at her husband and demands, "Are you really going to smoke that vile thing?" Almost 100 years ago, Rudyard Kipling's short story, "The Betrothed" (1899), laid the foundation for today's stereotypes about cigars and the war of the sexes. In it, a fiancée tells her husband-to-be, "Darling, you must choose between me and your cigars."

Less than 50 years later, Hollywood portrayed a woman with a cigar as a provocative novelty in the film version of Colette's Gigi. The eponymous heroine (played by Leslie Caron) is transformed from ragamuffin to the "ideal woman." Significantly, her training includes learning how to select, unwrap and clip a good cigar--and then offer it to her escort. Of course, she wasn't supposed to smoke it. Gigi might appreciate cigars, even be an expert at handling them, but the pleasures of a smoke were still reserved for men. The message was clear: A woman who reveres cigars, knows how to appreciate them, but leaves them to the guys is a dream come true.

Since the days of Kipling, and onto the legacy of Gigi, cigars have belonged to men. Or so it would seem. Think about it: With a cigar, men celebrate the birth of a child, cement business deals and affirm friendships. They smoke them in clubs and secret societies. Cigars are an integral part of such cherished guy-rituals as the poker game and the stag party.

If the association between men and cigars in American culture is strong--indeed, as overpowering as Cohiba smoke in a windowless room--the link between women and cigars is, well, shrouded in smoke and mystery.

Pushing beyond the smoke screen of cliché, however, it's obvious that Edmark, Mogil and Webb are not alone. Increasingly, women are starting to smoke cigars, or are coming out of the closet as longtime cigar smokers. They're enjoying the aroma and taste and ritual--and why shouldn't they? It's not an anomaly or a coincidence--in fact, it turns out that the "masculinization" of cigars is a recent historical development, and that there is as much precedent for women loving cigars as hating them.

At trendy clubs such as Manhattan's Le Cigar at Tatou and Cigar Bar, at Big Smokes where traditionally the only women were miniskirted "spokesmodels," and at George Sand Society events, where women outnumber men three to one, cigar aficionadas are a visible new presence.

But are women smoking cigars in sufficient numbers to exert a significant influence on the marketplace? Diana Silvius-Gits sits on the board of directors of the Tobacconist's Association of America, is former president of the Retail Tobacco Dealers of America, Inc., and owns the Up Down Tobacco Shop in Chicago. "Women are our next big market," Silvius-Gits says. "We are seeing a tremendous surge of women smoking cigars. They're educated, they know what they want and I see more of them every day in my store." Helena Stigeler, president of Michel Perrenoud International, says that three times more women than men buy Perrenoud's pyramid-shaped humidors.

Market research conducted in the late 1980s determined that women comprised one-tenth of one percent of the total cigar market in the United States. Norman Sharp, president of the Cigar Association of America, says that the market has clearly changed in the eight years since this study was done. Based on anecdotal reports from cigar manufacturers and retailers, women appear to be smoking cigars in significantly greater numbers.

For these women, cigars are a relaxing ritual, a meditative experience and a reflection of the level of status and success that they have achieved. Take the case of Cynthia Ekberg Tsai, who runs two East Coast venture capital firms (Tsai Globus Bioventures and MassTech Ventures) and is founder and director of NuGene Technologies, Inc., a gene therapy technology company based at New York University. Tsai started smoking cigars 10 years ago.

"My life is high-stress," she says. "A cigar, for me, is about relaxation. It allows me--requires me--to sit still for an hour! I savor the taste, watch the smoke, get lost in my thoughts." She prefers a smaller ring gauge Davidoff and smokes three or four times a month, on special occasions or with business associates.

Like many of the women interviewed for this article, Tsai says she is more likely to smoke cigars in Europe, where it is common for women to do so. In her experience, many Europeans are downright blasé about women with cigars. She recalls taking a friend to an elegant luncheon in Paris where, "completely unsolicited, the waiter came over and offered us a cigar after our meal. That made quite an impression on me."

Sharp says that statistics support Tsai's observations: There are more women cigar smokers in Europe, with Denmark having the highest per-capita consumption. In Tsai's opinion, the United States has been slower to accept women cigar smokers in a business context as well. Every year she attends the World Economic Forum in Davos, Switzerland, and doesn't think twice about lighting up a cigar alongside some of the world's top businessmen. Here in the States, Tsai is much more hesitant in doing so.

Tsai may feel that way because she has had a few awkward moments involving cigars. On a 1991 trip to South Africa, for example, she caused a commotion by lighting up in a restaurant. "Everyone, including the chef, came to my table, saying they were so excited--they had never seen a woman smoking a cigar!" Tsai concedes that "it is inevitably a statement for a woman to smoke a cigar--you know you'll attract some attention if you're doing it in public." But, she adds, "It's hardly ever a negative response. And it's also simply about enjoying the pleasures of living."

Edmark (who in 1989 created a popular women's hair accessory called the TopsyTail and is now marketing her new product, the "Bowrette Collection") says she knows that people may assume she is trying to make a statement by smoking a cigar. But she insists, "I smoke them because I enjoy them. The taste and the smoke are really pleasant." Still, she concedes that being a businesswoman who smokes a cigar hasn't hurt her professionally: "I know that by smoking cigars I have created an image and an ambience of success around myself. If people think I'm a mogul, fine!"

Julie Ross, cofounder of the George Sand Society, Santa Monica--a cigar-smoking club that welcomes women and men (there is now a chapter in Manhattan)--has been smoking cigars for 10 years. She prefers Montecristos and Avos, and says she picked up the habit from a friend visiting from Europe. "It's common to see women smoking cigars in Italy," she notes. "And women have always smoked cigars in Holland and Denmark, maybe because historically, equality between men and women has always been the rule there."

Whatever the reason that aficionadas are more common in Europe, Ross notes that cigar smoking is catching on in Southern California. "Our membership is about 60 to 70 percent women, with most of the women successful professionals in their mid-30s and up. But there's another group that's growing--women in their 20s, most of them college and graduate students." Ross says she is especially gratified that the GSS draws both men and women. "In an unusual twist, women are bringing their husbands and boyfriends to our events," she says. "At our last formal dinner, almost every woman in the room was smoking a cigar, even male members' wives."

Far from alienating men, cigar smoking is a ritual that can bond women with each other and the men in their lives. As Ross puts it, "When a man and woman share the love of cigars, it creates a unique intimacy." For example, Michael Sirgado, an attorney with Waters, McPherson, McNeill, often goes to Dunhill's and Davidoff's Manhattan stores with his wife, Jo Anne, also an attorney: "I enjoy a cigar more when my wife picks it out. Going together is a sort of ritual we share."

After her South American adventure, it was a boyfriend who showed Edmark the etiquette of selecting, cutting and smoking a cigar. "I found it endearing that he wanted to show me how to go about it," she says. So endearing, in fact, that the two are now married. "We smoked Romeo y Julietas to celebrate the night he proposed. I saved the butts and bands and am having them framed," she says with a laugh. In a reversal of the Gigi dynamic, husband Stephen Polley, chairman, president and CEO of the Dallas-based Interphase Corporation, selects and prepares Edmark's cigars for her. Edmark doesn't like "little ones"--she tends to go for Churchills. "If you're going to smoke a cigar, don't be scared of big ones," she advises women who want to experiment. "They're actually milder."

Women aren't just smoking cigars in record numbers; they have also made successful careers in nearly every facet of today's cigar marketplace. Helena Stigeler develops and markets elegant and innovative cigar-smoking accessories. Cigar manufacturers such as Emmanuelle Marty, cofounder, co-owner and president of Sublimado Cigar Corp. in Miami, have dispensed with the notion that women cannot thrive at the highest echelons of the international cigar industry. For these women, enjoying cigars is an integral part of their work.

"Cigars are my livelihood, but I also find them relaxing and elegant," says Marty. "Smoking is like having a conversation with myself. I love to play with the smoke and savor the aroma of quality tobacco. For me, it's an event. And I think women can look very elegant with a cigar." She prefers her own Cognac-mellowed Sublimados, but also smokes Cuban Montecristos and Bolivars.

Stigeler, who smokes Avo Belicosos, concurs. In fact, she thinks cigar smoking is about complementarity between the sexes. "Women becoming cigar smokers and going to events in recent years has allowed men to feel more comfortable with their own elegance."

Perhaps no one has met with greater success in blending business with pleasure than Silvius-Gits. She markets her own line of cigars (the Dominican-manufactured Diana Silvius). She also flexes her political muscle through her involvement with national tobacco organizations (she recently joined Cigar Aficionado's Lafayette Park smokers rally before the Big Smoke in Washington, D.C.), and speaks with boundless enthusiasm and knowledge about smoking cigars. Silvius-Gits, whose motto is: "If it doesn't smoke, I don't want to have anything to do with it," describes the Davidoff Double "R" in the reverential language Keats used to describe his Grecian urn. About her encyclopedic cigar knowledge, she says simply that "women who work in the industry really know their stuff."


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## MrMusicMan1 (Sep 5, 2008)

(part 2)

Alicia Wilson is living proof of Silvius-Gits' theory. She is the store manager at Alfred Dunhill of London's Manhattan branch, where she runs cigar-education seminars. Wilson trains corporate executives and other interested individuals (men and women) in the art and science of cigar smoking, and consults with restaurants in creating cigar menus to complement their cuisine. "I don't think men have a problem taking advice from me about cigars," she says.

Cigars are often a kind of social glue within families, too. There's no denying that passing on the love of a cigar establishes bonds between the generations. Stigeler says, "My associations and memories of my father with a cigar are wonderful. Because whenever he had a cigar in hand, it meant he would feel relaxed and have time to talk with me. This is always at the back of my mind when I smoke a cigar." Apparently, Stigeler has passed on those happy associations; her daughter, Veronica, 23, is also an avid cigar smoker.

When Diane Collatos' father took her at 16 to see Gigi, he may well have had the training and initiation of his daughter into womanhood in mind. Things turned out quite differently: Setting out to create a cigar handler, he unwittingly created not just a cigar smoker, but a connoisseur. "After we saw the film he would say to me, 'Honey, could you 'Gigi' me a cigar?' I would go into his humidor, pick a cigar and light it for him. I used to get a few puffs. That and the aroma of the humidor were the payoffs for me."

Collatos, a Boston native who is now a ceramic artist (she recently designed an ashtray for a friend's cigar store), smokes two to three cigars per day and sports an elegant gold cigar cutter--inherited from her grandfather--around her neck. While we may think of cigar smoking as something passed on from fathers to sons, Stigeler, Collatos and many other women prove that the rite is frequently passed from father or grandfather to daughter.

Wilson reports that she smoked her first cigar at age four, while sitting on her grandfather's lap at a bullfight in Seville. She says that her grandfather knew what he was doing when he offered her puffs of his cigar as a child. "He believed that cigars, and red wine for that matter, were not age or gender specific, and set out to pass his love of cigars to his grandchildren, male and female."

Ross notes that "a lot of women have very distinct memories of their childhood and adolescence relating to cigars. Maybe they got empty cigar boxes to keep their little things in. And the smell reminds them of important male figures--like grandfathers, uncles and dad--in their early lives." Or, in Ross' case, important female figures: Her mother smoked panatelas to wean herself from cigarettes.

It is not only men, then, who pass the love of cigars down through the generations. Tom Favelli grew up around cigars, but it wasn't a family patriarch who initiated him into the pleasures of a good smoke: It was his great-grandmother. Favelli owns the Key West Havana Cigar Company and recalls hearing stories about his great-grandmother enjoying her cigar at family functions. "None of the men in my family smoked," he says. "She was sort of an inspiration for me."

Favelli is not alone. He recently reminisced with one of his customers, Eloy Rodriguez, who recalls weekly Sunday visits to his grandmother. "We would bring her a pint of whiskey and three maduro cigars," says Rodriguez. "She would cut them in half to last her for the next six days." Which meant that by the next weekly visit, his grandmother was more than ready for her daily cigar. She skipped the requisite grandmotherly cheek-pinching and commentary and zeroed right in on where the cigars might be. "Lighting the cigar came first--hello kisses could wait until she'd had a few puffs," says Rodriguez, who inherited a preference for maduros.

Partly in homage to these trailblazing women smokers, Favelli now markets two cigars named after women--"The Lena" and "The Estella," which he will package in old-style glass jars called amatistas. The label on the jars depicts the image of a woman smoking a cigar. Of course, he also has more contemporary women smokers in mind. "I love having women customers," says Favelli, who estimates that women comprise about five percent of his clientele. He also reports that, over the last year, women have been buying cigars in greater numbers and with more knowledge and authority. "I like seeing a woman buck tradition and enjoy a good cigar."

For Isabel Cid Sirgado, Ph.D., chair of Modern Languages and Comparative Literature at the City University of New York's Baruch College and president of Academic Enterprises Inc., smoking a cigar is less about bucking tradition and more about continuing it. Born in Cuba, Sirgado's Galician grandfather started his own handrolled cigar factory in Havana after leaving H. Upmann. By the 1860s, he had 40 rollers working under him. Sirgado herself is now an avid and informed cigar smoker. When she can't get her hands on a Cuban Cohiba, she prefers Romeo y Julietas and Davidoffs.

Sirgado feels strongly that she inherited her love of cigars as much from the women in her family as from the men. In one of her earliest memories, she recalls uncovering the mystery of why her grandmother never emerged from her room before 11 a.m. "Each morning, one of the cigar makers would knock at my grandmother's door carrying a tray containing four or five cigars, which were custom-made for her every day. She would take her pick--she liked them tapered and on the small side. She wouldn't emerge until she had had her cigar."

Even though Isabel Sirgado cites her grandmother's influence, "it was my best woman friend of more than 20 years who taught me to appreciate the nuance and ritual of smoking; she was a mentor to me." This tradition lives on. Sirgado's daughter, Gloria Isabel Mastrianni, a promotions coordinator for Manhattan's Mix 105 radio station, enjoys smoking after family dinners at their summer house in the Hamptons. And Sirgado's son, Michael, has also inherited his mother's love of cigars. Beaming, he relates a story of how she managed to bring him a Cuban Cohiba from Paris in honor of his passing the bar exam. "Most probably," Sirgado says with a smile, "in matters of cigar smoking, I am his role model." Michael recalls always thinking it was "cool" that he had a cigar-smoking mother, and now they can be seen smoking regularly together in many of the cigar-friendly restaurants in Manhattan, where, according to Sirgado, no one makes much of a fuss over her smoking.

In contrast, cigar-smoking women of our grandmothers' generation usually pursued their pleasure in private. Oral historian Perucho Sanchez, an 88-year-old Key West native and veteran of the cigar industry (he worked in factories in Key West and Tampa), recalls that clearly there were social pressures at that time which made it difficult for women to smoke cigars in public. Sanchez says that the many women rollers he knew when he worked in Florida eschewed the more socially acceptable cigarette and went to impressive lengths to smoke the cigars they preferred. "They would take the cigars and cut them up. Then they would reroll the tobacco in cigarette paper. And you know how they held it together? With a hairpin!" He still sounds amused and amazed at the image: the cigar, cunningly rearranged and disguised, held together by this utilitarian but slightly risqué signifier of femininity.

But women didn't always have to hide the fact that they loved a good cigar. According to tobacco historian Jordan Goodman in his book, Tobacco in History: The Cultures of Dependence (London: Rutledge, 1993), the process of "gendering" tobacco consumption of any sort--pipe, cigar and chewing tobacco--did not get under way until the nineteenth century.

"Though we may find the image of a pipe- [or cigar-] smoking woman uncomfortable because of our own gender assumptions and constructions," Goodman writes, "there is little evidence of this [discomfort]" before the nineteenth century. In other words, our forefathers didn't bat an eye when our foremothers lit up.

In fact, our notion that women in the United States and Europe didn't consume tobacco until the twentieth century arrived and "modernized" us couldn't be more false. In J.C. Roberts' book, The Story of Tobacco in America (New York: Knopf, 1952), an English traveler to the colonies noted in 1686 that religious services in one backwoods settlement involved an unusual ritual: "The minister and all the others smoke before going in. The preaching over they do the same...everybody smokes, men, women, girls and boys from the age of seven."

It wasn't just that it was acceptable for women to smoke; doctors believed that there was a special link between feminine health and tobacco and often prescribed hand-rolled tobacco "cigars" and pipes for their women patients. "How many women have I seen almost lifeless from headache or toothache or catarrh restored to their former health by the use of this plant?" Paul de Reneaulme wondered rhetorically in his Botanic Compendium, published in Paris in the early 1600s.

This link between women and the healing power of cigars, it seems, goes back hundreds of years and may have its earliest roots in pre-Columbian societies. In fourteenth-century Aztec culture, for example, tobacco gourds and pouches were the insignia of women doctors and midwives. And it wasn't only in Aztec society that women smoked. John Cockburn, an English traveler to Costa Rica, wrote in 1735, "These gentlemen gave us some seegars...these are leaves of tobacco rolled up in such a manner that they serve both for a pipe and for tobacco itself. These the ladies, as well as gentlemen, are very fond of smoking."

The situation was similar in America and Europe. By all accounts, men and women smoked cigars in equal numbers during the eighteenth century. But by the nineteenth century, change was under way, and by the early twentieth century, the relationship between women and tobacco was undergoing radical alterations. From the 1920s onward, the American tobacco industry increasingly aimed at encouraging female cigarette smokers.

A 1926 Chesterfield ad, for example, shows a flapper looking longingly at her cigarette-smoking date and asking him coyly to "Blow some my way." A slogan used by American Tobacco in an ad campaign in the late 1920s, "Reach for a Lucky Instead of a Sweet," had a double-pronged message directed at women. It linked the "elegant" size of the cigarette to the elegance of a waspish waist.

Cigarettes were represented as modern and simple. The cigar and pipe were comparatively cumbersome, not to mention time-consuming, and so were gradually relegated to special occasions. Cigars, within this scheme of things, were more suitable to the drawing room, and to men.

From the turn of the century until recent decades, cigar smoking by American and European women continued to be a covert affair. Latin American women, on the other hand, fared better. Women's cigar smoking may have its common ancestry in Aztec society, but it developed along decidedly different lines in the United States than it did in modern-day Latin America.

"I realize that seeing a woman with a cigar is not an entirely 'natural' thing for some Americans," Isabel Sirgado concedes. "But for many Cuban women, it's common." Because of Sirgado's Cuban heritage, cigars for her are a family affair and smoking is part of her personal legacy. In Latin culture there is an important and extremely time-honored link between women and cigars.

Cynthia Fuente-Suarez, president of the Arturo Fuente Cigar Factory, and Sublimado president Marty are proof that cigar production and consumption have nothing to do with gender. "In my country, and also in other places I've been like the Dominican Republic, cigars aren't the property of men," says the French-born Marty, who travels extensively in Latin America for business. In France, for example, "cigars are part of a whole cultural appreciation of good food, good wine and leisurely dining." Marty has helped foster such appreciation in the United States as well. This past April, she donated Sublimados to a women-only cigar dinner at Bella Luna in New Orleans.

The young CEO was impressed by the savvy cigar-smoking damas mayores (older ladies) she saw in the Dominican RepubIic. "These women had lived through a time when everyone in the Dominican Republic was given rights to a small plot of land on which to grow tobacco for profit," notes Marty. "Many of them smoked cigars to check the tobacco. For men and women of this generation, smoking cigars is about a democratic right to grow and sell. Younger Dominican women don't do it. I realized that it was generational and political."

Cigars also have deep significance in Santeria, the African-based spiritual tradition that is popular throughout the Caribbean and Latin America and which incorporates and reworks some elements of Catholicism. According to one expert on Afro-Caribbean diaspora culture (who asked to remain anonymous), "In Santeria, tobacco is a sacred substance, and the cigar has central importance. Priests and priestesses smoke cigars in both sacred and secular contexts. Cigars elevate the smoker, regardless of gender." She adds that the smoke has two functions within a Santeria ritual: It cleanses the air and invites particular deities, who are partial to cigar smoke, down into the room. "It is a great act of respect to offer a gift of cigars, especially Cuban cigars, to a priestess [or Santera]," she says.

Even for Latinos who have no direct connection to Santeria, the link between cigars, spirituality and women is a strong one. Olga Manosalvas, born in New York of Ecuadoran parents, is an accomplished painter and third-generation cigar aficionada (she picked it up from her mother, her Aunt Isabel Sirgado and her grandmother). In fact, one of her earliest memories involves a cigar put to what some might consider "unorthodox" purpose: As a young child she once had a high fever that would not break. After consulting two doctors, her grandmother became convinced that someone had given Olga the evil eye. She placed the girl in a doorway, lit a cigar and smoked it facing her granddaughter. She then collected the ashes from the cigar and "washed" Olga by rubbing them onto her skin. The fever went away.


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## MrMusicMan1 (Sep 5, 2008)

(part 3)

Manosalvas recently designed an illustration for a cigar box based on such practices and beliefs: It is a figure called "la cubanita," a priestess from Santeria symbology who is adorned typically in a white dress and turban. "La cubanita smokes cigars for spiritual healing and cleansing," Manosalvas explains. She adds that, while such stories and symbols enrich the cigar-smoking experience for her and for many women who share her cultural heritage, it is only part of the picture. She also enjoys the smoke, and is quite a connoisseur--"I smoke Cuban Cohibas, and when I can't get them I smoke Avos."

Such use of cigars by women in homespun healing rituals is common in Latin America. Sirgado notes that she sometimes smokes "to clear the air" when she feels the presence of "ill will": "It's common to take seven ritual puffs, as a recognition of the seven Afro-Cuban deities and a way to neutralize bad influences around you. It's not really so hard to understand," Sirgado continues. "Where there is a cigar, there is mysticism."

It carries over into this culture, too. Think of Marlene Dietrich in Orson Welles' Touch of Evil or any of those psychics with storefront spaces in major cities. Their cigars or cigarettes are part of their mystical power.

Cuban-American singer La India, whose salsa collection has topped charts in recent months, smokes a cigar during her show and refers to Afro-Cuban religious deities in her songs. According to one expert on Afro-Caribbean culture, La India's use of cigars is "double-coded." On the one hand, she says, "It's a nod to tradition, an expression of her Cuban identity." But, she adds, "don't forget that La India is young and that she has a non-Latin audience and sensibility, too. By smoking a cigar, she's also saying, 'I'm a rebellious girl. I'm doing what, for non-Latins, seems very masculine.'"

La India isn't the first woman to revel in the bad-girl aspects of smoking a cigar. Madonna used one as an aggressive prop and harnessed the truly noxious aspect of secondhand smoke in her 1994 tête-à-tête with David Letterman. In the ensuing hoopla, it was unclear whether it was Madonna's words or the image of a woman with a cigar that got under everyone's skin. What is clear is that Madonna used the cigar as part of her gambit to be seen as powerful and brazen.

In doing so, she was borrowing from a tradition that stretches back to the nineteenth century. According to Richard Klein, Ph.D., professor of French at Cornell University and author of Cigarettes are Sublime (Durham: Duke University Press, 1993), "At that historical moment--and even today--a woman smoking a cigar sent a signal that she had assumed the male prerogative of taking pleasure in public. And so cigars were props for women who staged their sexuality in public--gypsies, actresses and prostitutes." Bizet's ultravixen Carmen, who brazenly smoked cigars in the town square, comes to mind. More recently, Marlene Dietrich--who shocked the world by wearing men's suits in the 1930s--also enjoyed playing with the cigar's scandalous associations: She smoked them as she watched women burlesque dancers at the Frisky Pom-Pom Club in Hollywood and dined with buddy Ernest Hemingway on the S.S. Normandie. She even smoked one during her cameo as a border town gypsy/madam in Touch of Evil: "Future?" she asks Welles' character in the movie, taking a puff on her cigar and letting the smoke play around her face in a moment of cinematic iconicity. "You haven't got a future. It's all used up."

It's likely that Dietrich picked up her habit in 1920s Berlin, where women's cigar-smoking clubs--usually loosely knit groups of artists, writers, club-owners and demimondaines--mushroomed. These cigar clubs were a place for progressive women to get together to network, socialize and exert their power. Such clubs also sprang up across the Atlantic in New York, Chicago, and other major cities, but little historical evidence exists. "That's because they were secret clubs which succeeded in being secret," says one cigar historian. The need for secrecy, he adds, signals that, by the late nineteenth century, cigars were indeed considered the property of men; hence their attractiveness for renegade women who cherished their individuality and felt they had a right to the power and privileges that men called their own.

Today, the largest women's cigar-smoking society in the United States takes its name from one such renegade: George Sand, the nineteenth-century novelist who wrote The Haunted Pool, had a celebrated liaison with Frédéric Chopin, agitated for women's rights and wore men's clothing. Cigar smoking was part of her "lifestyle as rebellion" campaign--she is said to have smoked several per day. Julie Ross, who co-founded the George Sand Society, Santa Monica, with Jivan Tabibian three years ago, says they chose their namesake for "her uncompromising individuality and spirit of freedom. She was an outrageous character but also very accomplished and successful."

Women writers of Sand's era and beyond seem to have had a penchant for cigars: Nineteenth-century biographer and poet Amy Lowell is said to have created a scandal at Harvard when she lit up a cigar during a visit; French novelist Colette is rumored to have smoked them in bed, while modernist grande dame Gertrude Stein indulged during her weekly salon, the artistic epicenter of postwar Europe.

While some women retain the likes of Dietrich and Sand as their "patron saints" of cigar smoking, women's cigar smoking today is clearly no longer just about rebellion. The profile of today's aficionada does not fit easily into a rigid stereotype. Tobacconist Silvius-Gits says that "women who smoke cigars are an attractive, successful and sophisticated bunch who know what they want and know how to enjoy life."

When asked what it is that she enjoys most about a cigar, Stigeler muses: "Just to watch the smoke curling and disappearing in the air--and all your stress disappears with it--it's like meditating." For Isabel Sirgado it's the same: "Simply by the fact that I have lit a cigar, means I have given myself permission to truly relax and forget about the world, for at least an hour, if not two."

Perhaps because of a change in the social climate where cigars are concerned, the aficionadas we spoke to report that they derive as much pleasure from a cigar smoked in public as from one smoked in private. Alicia Wilson recently strolled down Fifth Avenue, along New York City's Central Park, smoking a Churchill without any fanfare or comment from passersby, male or female. One man did stop to ask her what kind of cigar she was smoking. "I answered before I realized it was the comedian Jackie Mason," she says.

Indeed, most aficionadas report only minor snags: When they shop for a cigar, for example, salespeople often assume they're trying to pick one out for somebody else, or they try to steer them to smaller, more "feminine" sized smokes, even though many aficionadas have discovered the cooler, richer smoke they get from a larger ring gauge. Then there are those who take exception to what they see as flagrant gender-bending: Author Mogil (who has written an essay titled "Give That Lady a Cigar") reports that an outraged restaurant patron once demanded of her, "Who do you think you are--Madonna?"

But in general, women report that people are enthused and supportive about their cigar smoking. Julie Ross says, "I've rarely met a man who had a problem with my cigars. In fact, I get incredibly positive reactions: 'What are you smoking?' 'I wish I had some of those,' and so on." Most aficionadas laugh off the occasional flak, focusing instead on the pleasure of a good smoke. Asked if she plans to cut down on her consumption of five to seven cigars a week, Ross chuckles. "Nope. Although according to Jim Belushi [Profile, Spring 1994 Cigar Aficionado--Ed.], I should have quit by now--it's been much longer than three years!"

To find out more about the George Sand Society, contact: Kimberly Shaw at (310) 394-8667 in Santa Monica, or Tammy Meltzer at (212) 757-7610 in New York.


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## slyder (Mar 17, 2009)

Ive got 2 words for you......Lewinsky


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## docruger (Feb 12, 2009)

slyder said:


> Ive got 2 words for you......Lewinsky


that's only one word.


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## TanithT (May 30, 2009)

Tarks said:


> I feel that cigar smoking is a man thing. Watching a woman smoke does not turn my crank.


 So....don't watch. Sheesh. That's kind of like saying that wine tasting is a woman thing. That's horsecrap. If you have the palate to appreciate it, then you should enjoy it to its fullest.

As Sigmund Freud said, sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. It doesn't, er, stand in for anything else.

Here's a link that other ladies (and gentlemen) who smoke cigars may enjoy. Bay Gourmet Cigar Page


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## nativetexan_1 (Jan 1, 2008)

Little boys play with trucks, little girls play with dolls.

Older boys play football, older girls play volleyball.

Men smoke cigars, women smoke daintier things.

I personallly am not at all turned on by a woman with a cigar.

PS. I believe in male/female roles in society. Doesn't make my opinions popular.


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## Cypress (Jun 27, 2007)

This is the beauty of living in America. Every one is entitled to their own opinion.


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## bdw1984 (May 6, 2009)

just got back home from a cigar bar... took a lady friend with me... enough said... she looked sexy


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## TanithT (May 30, 2009)

nativetexan_1 said:


> I personallly am not at all turned on by a woman with a cigar.


No offense, but nobody except your wife is likely to want you to be personally turned on by what they are doing. I know that I would be pretty creeped out if some guy told me that he *was* turned on by it. I do hear that there are guys with this as a fetish. I just don't think I wanna herf with them. :dunno:


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## Blaylock-cl (Apr 28, 2006)

slyder said:


> Ive got 2 words for you......Lewinsky


And can you tell me how this comment is relevant to the topic... or necessary for that matter? 

I think we all need to keep to the original topic and remind ourselves that we have female members here who may find some of the comments a bit degrading.


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## TanithT (May 30, 2009)

Blaylock said:


> I think we all need to keep to the original topic and remind ourselves that we have female members here who may find some of the comments a bit degrading.


Thank you.

All discussions of snobbery and individuality in smoking aside, that is most definitely the *wrong* way to smoke a cigar. They are really best when taken orally. :twisted:


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## CasualAdventurer (May 29, 2009)

I guess I have no real opinion about women smoking cigars. Cigars help me unwind; women often make me anxious. For me both are a private indulgence. ;-)


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## GlockG23 (Mar 7, 2009)

TanithT I wonder if you made the list?
opcorn:

This thread should get back on course, Dave does not mess around

:focus:
Joe's (docroger) original post was I believe, to make the observation that 
female cigar smokers are out there more then ever. Plus to make 
the newer female cigar smokers here at Puff fell more at ease and 
welcome (correct me if I am wrong Joe)

oh

Nicole Kidman smokes Ashton's, Cohiba and Montecristo No. 2's. I believe, among other brands


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## Cigar Man Andy (Aug 13, 2008)




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## CasualAdventurer (May 29, 2009)

> Originally Posted by nativetexan_1 View Post
> I personallly am not at all turned on by a woman with a cigar.


I beg to differ...


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## GlockG23 (Mar 7, 2009)

Cool picture Andy!!


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## TanithT (May 30, 2009)

GlockG23 said:


> TanithT I wonder if you made the list?


I doubt it. :biggrin1:



> Joe's (docroger) original post was I believe, to make the observation that female cigar smokers are out there more then ever. Plus to make the newer female cigar smokers here at Puff fell more at ease and
> welcome (correct me if I am wrong Joe)


I certainly do appreciate that. Thank you.

Cultural artifacts tend to be remarkably arbitrary. When America was originally founded, wearing a wig was an exclusively male domain. That paradigm has shifted, and now it's considered to be something only women do. Is there any logical reason for this? No, not really. There just seems to be a tendency for cultures to assign gender to iconic objects on a random basis. Generally the more primitive the culture, the less mutable the gender assignments are, even when they don't make any logical or practical sense.

Men wear "skirts" in Scotland, and it probably would not be a good idea to call the average wearer of the kilt and sporran effeminate. The traditional Middle Eastern robe is not bifurcated, and in other cultures might be called a "dress". In several indigenous cultures, pipe smoking is considered a strictly female affair; men do not partake. In our own culture, you can find men who will swear that wine and wine tasting is only for women and sissies; men drink beer and Scotch.

Cigars, and wine, on a fundamental level, are consumable works of art. To discourage the appreciation of such art based on gender is unsupportable. Interestingly enough, there are far more female "supertasters" than male, suggesting that the finer palates may well be found among women. Might this be a reason that some men are afraid to allow women into their august company, for fear of being "shown up" by a better palate?

In my humble opinion, life is far better if we can all enjoy the art of a good cigar together, each to our own taste and ability.


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## gglen (Apr 20, 2009)

I like being around ladies that enjoy a good cigar. The conversations are enlightening and I get introduced to cigars that I may not have thought to try before.


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## nativetexan_1 (Jan 1, 2008)

Either I miscommunicated or you misunderstood. I certainly didn't mean that in any form of a sexual turn-on. To be more blunt (but perhaps a little more clear), I don't like the looks of a woman with a cigar stuck in her mouth. Men are men, women are women, and they have different roles in society. I see cigar smoking as a male role. 

I'm not trying to change everyone's opinion. The questioin was asked, and I answered it. If answers are not wanted, questions should not be asked.

Look at it as an election. I lost. 'nough said.


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## Blaylock-cl (Apr 28, 2006)

nativetexan_1 said:


> Little boys play with trucks, little girls play with dolls.
> 
> Older boys play football, older girls play volleyball.
> 
> ...





nativetexan_1 said:


> I'm not trying to change everyone's opinion. The questioin was asked, and I answered it. If answers are not wanted, questions should not be asked.


Curious...What was the question that you were responding to? :ask:


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## TanithT (May 30, 2009)

nativetexan_1 said:


> Either I miscommunicated or you misunderstood. I certainly didn't mean that in any form of a sexual turn-on. To be more blunt (but perhaps a little more clear), I don't like the looks of a woman with a cigar stuck in her mouth. Men are men, women are women, and they have different roles in society. I see cigar smoking as a male role.


Thank you for clarifying.

This is a free country. You are welcome to have any arbitrary opinion or cultural/religious taboo that you like, even if other people think it's strange or makes no logical sense. Everyone else is welcome not to care very much what a stranger thinks of them while they are following their own version of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

There really isn't a question here, as far as I can tell, Blaylock. It's just a matter of someone feeling the need to publicly express a negative personal opinion.


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## MrMusicMan1 (Sep 5, 2008)

Blaylock said:


> Curious...What was the question that you were responding to? :ask:


:second:
:bitchslap:
LOL


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## ashmaster (Oct 10, 2008)

I'll keep my response fairly simple. As far as I'm concerned if a women wants to partake in the pleasure of smoking a cigar more power to her, makes no-nevermind to me. It just a wonderful thing.


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## nativetexan_1 (Jan 1, 2008)

Once again I failed to be clear. There apparently was no question. Let's just say the topic was broached and I responded.


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## docruger (Feb 12, 2009)

:tpd:


MrMusicMan1 said:


> :second:
> :bitchslap:
> LOL


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## Gespinoza1 (Apr 21, 2008)

All I have to say is if 3:39 and on in this video is not sexy then I don't know what is!

Puff.com - Eddie Ortega of 601 Cigars explains to Seidy how to Cut, Light, and Smoke a 601 Cigar. Video in Spanish


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## tx_tuff (Jun 16, 2007)

Nuff said.


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## Herf N Turf (Dec 31, 2008)

For me, I dont feel the need to define everything a woman does as "sexy" vs non-sexy and I dont buy into the whole gender-role thing, but thats just MHO. I love smoking cigars with women, simply because I generally prefer the company of women. I enjoy smoking with an experienced female smoker and I also enjoy introducing a cigar-curious woman to a great smoke. There's nothing "sexual" about it and that's the part I find demeaning. If a woman is _trying _to be sexy while smoking a cigar, that's a different thing and is based soley upon _her _sexappeal, not the cigar. FYI, they're playing with _your mind_, not the cigar, and they know it!

Fundementally, I think its great to discuss women and cigars, since I think it can be a welcoming invitation into a hobby, which evokes and imparts passion and pure enjoyment. At the end of the day, at least for me, the enjoyment of smoking with another human has nothing to do with "plumbing".


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## Sweet_Cigars (Oct 3, 2008)

I have gotten so use to smoking cigars with the wife that now if I smoke by myself, it kinda sucks. Don't get me wrong I enjoy the smoke but the social company part that is associated with the whole experience is missing which makes a BIG difference in the whole experience. Moral of my point.

Woman smoking cigars is great!:clap2:


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## TanithT (May 30, 2009)

Herf N Turf said:


> For me, I dont feel the need to define everything a woman does as "sexy" vs non-sexy and I dont buy into the whole gender-role thing, but thats just MHO. I love smoking cigars with women, simply because I generally prefer the company of women. I enjoy smoking with an experienced female smoker and I also enjoy introducing a cigar-curious woman to a great smoke. There's nothing "sexual" about it and that's the part I find demeaning.


THANK YOU.

There is something deeply disturbing about men who are incapable of relating to a person without a ***** except in a sexualized way. At the end of the day, we're all just human beings, and we enjoy many of the same things. If we can share those enjoyments with each other, they become even better.


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## CasualAdventurer (May 29, 2009)

TanithT said:


> THANK YOU.
> 
> There is something deeply disturbing about men who are incapable of relating to a person without a ***** except in a sexualized way. At the end of the day, we're all just human beings, and we enjoy many of the same things. If we can share those enjoyments with each other, they become even better.


Really? You don't relate to men in a sexualized way? You're not looking for the knight in shining armor? The Captain Kirk? You don't like like the tension that such relating brings with it?

That's hard to believe. ;-)


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## TanithT (May 30, 2009)

CasualAdventurer said:


> Really? You don't relate to men in a sexualized way? You're not looking for the knight in shining armor? The Captain Kirk? You don't like like the tension that such relating brings with it?
> 
> That's hard to believe. ;-)


No, most men are strangers, casual acquaintances, professional colleagues or friends. I'm very happy with my boyfriend, so I relate to other men nonsexually. That's probably a pretty normal viewpoint, or at least I should hope it is. Even if I was single, I would still relate to the vast majority of men nonsexually. Just having a ***** is not sufficient criteria to get me interested in someone "that way", sorry. :biggrin:

And no, I really don't like tension and drama in my social life. I got sick of that kiddie shit in junior high school. Either someone can relate to me in an honest and straightforward adult manner, or they can go play games somewhere else. That applies whether I'm dating them or not. Actually it applies in particular to anyone I'd want to date.

There seems to be this social culture of men and women treating each other differently and to some extent deceptively, playing games rather than being honest and friendly and fair, and it's all just weird to me. Not interested in playing. I'd much prefer to relate to people as people and dispense entirely with the games.

If it helps to understand my viewpoint, I come from "nerd culture" and spend most of my time in academia, where the social values are a bit to the left of the mainstream.


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## CasualAdventurer (May 29, 2009)

Interesting. I don't recall suggesting deception or playing games, only reveling in certain roles. In my experience most women appreciate a man who is manly, and most men I know prefer women who are feminine. No games, no drama, just an enjoyment of the things that make us different. That doesn't have to mean that you'll sleep with them, just that you appreciate the differences. 

As for me, I love the differences. I truly enjoy being a man, and I enjoy just as much the company of women who enjoy being a woman. I don't have anything against men who are feminine, or women who are masculine, they just aren't the people who I hang out with (or who hang out with me for that matter).


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## TanithT (May 30, 2009)

CasualAdventurer said:


> Interesting. I don't recall suggesting deception or playing games, only reveling in certain roles.


Then where does the tension come from? Why not just relax and enjoy the company of others who are equally comfortable in their roles?



> In my experience most women appreciate a man who is manly, and most men I know prefer women who are feminine. No games, no drama, just an enjoyment of the things that make us different. That doesn't have to mean that you'll sleep with them, just that you appreciate the differences.


Who gets to define what is masculine and what is feminine? How do our cultural definitions differ from those of other cultures around the world? Whose interpretations are valid, and why? What really are the differences, after becoming aware of the arbitrary specifics of individual cultures? Those are some pretty good questions.

I personally appreciate diversity in all its forms, both the kind you're talking about and all other kinds. I don't find tension in it so much as acceptance and relaxation. I find tension only when there is drama, games and manipulation, which I consider to be a negative. If there isn't any of that going on and everybody is happy with who they are, that's a situation to relax in with friends without any tension.


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## CasualAdventurer (May 29, 2009)

Okay, now this is getting fun ;-).



> Then where does the tension come from? Why not just relax and enjoy the company of others who are equally comfortable in their roles?


Tension isn't always a bad thing. Sometimes tension reveals beauty. For instance, without tension a guitar string will never play a pleasant note. Sometimes tension reveals strength, as in a suspension bridge where, without tension, it would collapse. The same is true in relationships; a little matching of wits or a little playfulness can build a healthy mental or physical tension without deceit or game playing.



> Who gets to define what is masculine and what is feminine?


I do. (Joking.) In all seriousness, some of the definitions are cultural but some are biological. I've confessed earlier I smoke cigars mostly alone as a way to unwind, so I don't see many men or women lighting up. That's probably why I don't have a strong opinion about cigar smoking being a sex-oriented past time. This is an example of a cultural practice rather than a biological one. But there are differences in men and women's biology that help define feminine.

Women are (usually) the smaller sex and served by a man's strength. Men are (usually) more physically capable and are served by a women's gentleness and compassion. A quick example: tennis. Ever notice that the best women's tennis player's serves are never as fast as most of the men's? It's because a woman's shoulder is designed differently than a man's. It doesn't matter how much she works out, how much she developes the muscles of her arms, shoulder and back, a man with equal strength training will always be able to serve a faster tennis ball. All because of the design of the shoulder girdle.

That's what I mean by recognizing and apreciating the differences. Men and women are equal, but different, each being better at something than the other. That is not cultural, or relative, or subjective.


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## Cypress (Jun 27, 2007)

Can't both men and women just sit down and relax and smoke a cigar and forget about the differences between them? 

Maybe its just me in my married life where most of my other friends who have married since I have known them live busy lives too and I don't get to spend much time away from my wife. Personally, I enjoy, cigars, wine, beer, scotch, whiskey, pool, motorcycles (yes she has a Ninja), and many other things. My wife is my best friend and I have no one else to share my relaxation time with other than by myself.


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## Laserjock (Mar 25, 2006)

Cypress said:


> Can't both men and women just sit down and relax and smoke a cigar and forget about the differences between them?
> 
> Maybe its just me in my married life where most of my other friends who have married since I have known them live busy lives too and I don't get to spend much time away from my wife. Personally, I enjoy, cigars, wine, beer, scotch, whiskey, pool, motorcycles (yes she has a Ninja), and many other things. My wife is my best friend and I have no one else to share my relaxation time with other than by myself.


Great post...


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## jaq6plus (Jun 7, 2006)

I have smoked cigars for about 17 years. I started during a vacation to Cuba. I do it because I enjoy it and do not consider whether anyone else likes me doing it. I am entitled to that enjoyment and no one else matters. My husband does not smoke. He has always accepted my cigar smoking, has never questioned it. Other people have, on odd occassions, remarked about it but I just engaged them in conversation about it, even offer them one. I appreciate the dialogue of this thread, it is interesting to see the various opinions. Some of them are very Stone Age-ish but it's someone's opinion. Relax and enjoy your cigar, I am.


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## jaq6plus (Jun 7, 2006)

p.s.

I ride a motorbike too, a Harley!


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## CasualAdventurer (May 29, 2009)

> Can't both men and women just sit down and relax and smoke a cigar and forget about the differences between them?


Where's the fun in that? It's like watching the sky slowly fade to black with the sunset to your back -- you miss out on the best part of the day! Enjoying a woman for the shear fact that she is a woman doesn't have to be sexual, its an appreciation much like that of enjoying a good cigar, a fine wine, or a masterpiece of art. I hope I am the kind of man that inspires women to appreciate mankind.


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## tx_tuff (Jun 16, 2007)

I just don't think you get it.



CasualAdventurer said:


> I hope I am the kind of man that inspires women to appreciate mankind.


For reading all the replys from the women in this thread I don't think you are.


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## Herf N Turf (Dec 31, 2008)

> Okay, now this is getting fun ;-).


For whom?

This thread seems to me to have completely run amok.



> Tension isn't always a bad thing. Sometimes tension reveals beauty. For instance, without tension a guitar string will never play a pleasant note. Sometimes tension reveals strength, as in a suspension bridge where, without tension, it would collapse. The same is true in relationships; a little matching of wits or a little playfulness can build a healthy mental or physical tension without deceit or game playing.


There is a vast difference in physical tension and emotional tension. Tension of either kind must be accompanied by release. Whether talking about a guitar string, or the notes it plays, tension without release is called "stress".



> Women are (usually) the smaller sex and served by a man's strength. Men are (usually) more physically capable and are served by a women's gentleness and compassion. A quick example: tennis. Ever notice that the best women's tennis player's serves are never as fast as most of the men's? It's because a woman's shoulder is designed differently than a man's. It doesn't matter how much she works out, how much she developes the muscles of her arms, shoulder and back, a man with equal strength training will always be able to serve a faster tennis ball. All because of the design of the shoulder girdle.


If you picked up a tennis racquet and practiced everyday for 10yrs, lifting weights, doing everything you could do, you would never return Serena Williams' serve, let alone serve anywhere near her speed. No matter what kind of "girdle" you have :biggrin:



> That's what I mean by recognizing and apreciating the differences. Men and women are *equal, but different*, each being better at something than the other. That is not cultural, or relative, or subjective.


"different but equal"? Wasnt there a policy in 60's Alabama sounding very similar to this, which sought to cement racial segregation? :hand:



> Enjoying a woman for the shear fact that she is a woman doesn't have to be sexual, its an appreciation much like that of enjoying a good cigar, a fine wine, or a masterpiece of art.


Interesting. Aren't three out of the four examples here, OBJECTS? :ask:

If a man wants to be the kind of man who inspires women to appreciate them, start by treating them as people.


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## dwhitacre (Jan 2, 2008)

*At the last Herf I attended, I brought my wife and she enjoyed a cigar... Now she wants a box for her birthday!!!*

*I don't see anything wrong with this other than the cigar budget may double!!!:biggrin:*


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## TanithT (May 30, 2009)

CasualAdventurer said:


> I hope I am the kind of man that inspires women to appreciate mankind.


Mostly you are inspiring me to want to marry Herf N Turf. :biggrin:


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## Acesfull (Dec 9, 2007)

Herf N Turf is wise.... where is that damn bowdown smiley and he has an awesome avatar to boot


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## Riedelma (Mar 17, 2009)

Very well said Herf N Turf


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## CasualAdventurer (May 29, 2009)

Herf I think the thread has stayed on topic, everyone has expressed their views well and (mostly) without being insulting about it (your racism comment notwithstanding). I think until you get to know me better you probably shouldn't assume anything including my ability to return Serena's serve. 

And yes, it has been fun for me. I've communicated a love for the fairer sex and for all of life, and if that is something you feel needs to be debated, well, I feel very sorry for you.


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## tx_tuff (Jun 16, 2007)

I didn't see a insult or a racism comment. I think you just don't like somebody doing to you that you have done to the women who have posted in this thread.


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## TanithT (May 30, 2009)

CasualAdventurer said:


> I've communicated a love for the fairer sex and for all of life


Ever seen the movie "Boxing Helena"? Arguably one of the creepiest flicks of all time. Basically, there's this guy, and he really loves this girl, and he thinks she's beautiful, and he doesn't want her to leave him. So he amputates all her limbs and keeps her in a box under his bed.

So, yeah. Love. It may be what makes the world go round, but I can definitely live without the creepier expressions of it.


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## baddddmonkey (Oct 13, 2008)

Sweet_Cigars said:


> I have gotten so use to smoking cigars with the wife that now if I smoke by myself, it kinda sucks. Don't get me wrong I enjoy the smoke but the social company part that is associated with the whole experience is missing which makes a BIG difference in the whole experience. Moral of my point.
> 
> Woman smoking cigars is great!:clap2:


Same with me Sweet C! I always try to get the girlfriend to come out and smoke with me. Where I live, I don't have any friends that like to smoke. It's also hard to make new friends in this town when everything is centered around alcohol. Which I don't drink anymore. Anyway, basically I think it is just a great feeling when my lady comes outside and enjoys a smoke with me.

This last spring break I was at home and visiting one of my smokin buddies. His girlfriend was smoking an Oliva V Lancero. So she is a bad-ass on her own.

Smoking with a male or female friend doesn't matter to me, just as long as if you have someone to smoke with. It just makes it so much better. I would prefer a female friend though, they smell better than any of my friends and they are better looking too!


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## CasualAdventurer (May 29, 2009)

TanithT said:


> Ever seen the movie "Boxing Helena"? Arguably one of the creepiest flicks of all time. Basically, there's this guy, and he really loves this girl, and he thinks she's beautiful, and he doesn't want her to leave him. So he amputates all her limbs and keeps her in a box under his bed.
> 
> So, yeah. Love. It may be what makes the world go round, but I can definitely live without the creepier expressions of it.


You think I'm creepy? Really? Wow... okay.


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## Cypress (Jun 27, 2007)

CasualAdventurer said:


> You think I'm creepy? Really? Wow... okay.


I think that if this childish bickering does not stop the thread will be closed. There have been some well and not so well expressed views on the subject. I would like to see these views and not wonder who is creepy and who is not. In fact if you stay around here a bit you can figure out who is and isn't and keep it to yourself. Thanks.


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## Habanolover (Feb 22, 2006)

The only woman I would look at sexually while they are smoking is my girlfriend. Of course she is the only one I look at that way period. I do enjoy smoking cigars with women though. As a matter of fact I enjoy it as much as smoking with men. I wonder why? Oh yeah, it is because I am sharing the experience of smoking a good cigar with someone who is doing the same. A great part of the cigar experience is the comraderie that comes along with it and I enjoy that whether it be a man or woman.


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## TanithT (May 30, 2009)

CasualAdventurer said:


> You think I'm creepy? Really? Wow... okay.


This is not intended as a personal attack. I don't know you personally; I am making general social commentary on an attitude and a behavior. Contrary to popular mythology, love is not always enough, and sometimes it is a bad justification for some very unpleasant things.

The objectification/sexualization of women really is pretty creepy if you think about it. When taken to an extreme, the results are horror movie fodder. Even when the sentiment is expressed fairly mildly by men who are not likely to turn a woman into a living rendition of Venus de Milo, I do find it deeply disturbing to be regarded as something other than a normal adult human being.

I'm not an object. Like you, I'm a person, a human being, and I want to live my life and relate to other people in a pretty ordinary, drama-free and healthy way. I really don't want any gender-related tension or stress in my life. That stuff might have been kind of fun when I was a hormonal teenager, but I've largely lost my patience for it as a working adult, especially in a professional context. My attitude can be summed up as, "Talk to me like a normal adult human being, or don't, please. If you insist on role-playing, we might as well haul out the Dungeons and Dragons books and have some fun with it, since we aren't going to get anything else done." :biggrin:

In a personal context, what I look for in a man is someone who is capable of being my best friend and partner, someone who really thinks of me as another human being just like him. Not "separate but equal"; the deep gulf and chasm that creates is one that would leave me feeling lonely even in a marriage bed. Together, as partners, and most importantly as people.

Guys who don't get that are very hard for me to relate to, and mostly I'd rather not. I do have the best friend and partner I've always wanted, so it's not like I'm looking. But I still find it hard to relate socially to guys who really don't think of women as fellow human beings, friends and potential partners, but more as objects d'art. And if they're really extreme in the attitude, I might start looking around for where they keep the box, and quietly edging towards the door. That's how it makes me feel.

Just a bit of insight into what it feels like from this side, guys. Take it or leave it as you will.


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## biged843 (Aug 5, 2008)

I never knew there were so many different thoughts on women smoking cigars. Me personally, I say the more the merrier. Everybody I come in contact with, man or woman, I try to introduce them to cigars. I thought that was the point. I'll enjoy a cigar with just about anybody.

When it comes to women and cigars, I see no problem with it. In fact I encourage it. The Cigar shop I manage outside Charleston, SC we just had I second ladies night. It when very well and the ladies have a great time. 

And just from business prespective, women give us a new stream of income. They are a market that has not been marketed to enough. I think that is a mistake the cigar industry has made and I'm trying to change that at the shop I run.


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## Blaylock-cl (Apr 28, 2006)

Cypress said:


> There have been some well and not so well expressed views on the subject. I would like to see these views... Thanks.


...agree with Sam.



CasualAdventurer said:


> Where's the fun in that? It's like watching the sky slowly fade to black with the sunset to your back -- you miss out on the best part of the day! Enjoying a woman for the shear fact that she is a woman doesn't have to be sexual, its an appreciation much like that of enjoying a good cigar, a fine wine, or a masterpiece of art. I hope I am the kind of man that inspires women to appreciate mankind.





TanithT said:


> This is not intended as a personal attack. I don't know you personally; I am making general social commentary on an attitude and a behavior. Contrary to popular mythology, love is not always enough, and sometimes it is a bad justification for some very unpleasant things....


I'd like to see this *get back on track *from both/all parties. I think we all understand how you feel about the topic being discussed; and I don't think anymore "bantering" back and forth is going to get any thing resolved, or "enlighten" anyone anymore than it already has. 

Back on topic: I think it's great that more women are getting into the enjoyment of smoking cigars!


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## TanithT (May 30, 2009)

Blaylock said:


> Back on topic: I think it's great that more women are getting into the enjoyment of smoking cigars!


I agree. I definitely enjoy having female smoking buddies, though they've been few and far between as a rule. "Cigarqueen" and I used to majorly paint the town back when we both hung out on alt.smokers.cigars on Usenet and lived in the San Francisco Bay area. I do miss those days and hope to find more herfing companions both male and female where I live now (Raleigh, NC).


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## CasualAdventurer (May 29, 2009)

Cypress said:


> I think that if this childish bickering does not stop the thread will be closed. There have been some well and not so well expressed views on the subject. I would like to see these views and not wonder who is creepy and who is not. In fact if you stay around here a bit you can figure out who is and isn't and keep it to yourself. Thanks.


Thanks dad! :caked:


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## uli2000 (Apr 21, 2009)

Dont know any ladies who like cigars personally (my wife certainly doesnt), but I would have no prob smoking with any woman who does.


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## Acesfull (Dec 9, 2007)

my gf likes to go for long ashes when she smokes..










she did that one last night


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## MrRogers (Jun 15, 2009)

I'm sure there are some serious female smokers out there as evidenced by the women in this thread but I think they are few and far between to say the least. I've always thought the profiles CA would do on female smokers were silly. If you want to write a piece on Demi Moore go ahead, but don't stick a cigar in her hand, write a blurb on how she likes mild panatelas, and expect us to think she is a serious smoker. I think that if I were a women I would find that a bit irritating. 

A women wanting to be one of the guys and lighting up at a cigar bar once a year does not constitute a rise in female cigar smokers (nor does the guy who lights up annually at the company picnic or golf game). I don't see cigar smoking as a completely "male activity" and am glad to see serious female smokers in the forum. 

MrR


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## MrRogers (Jun 15, 2009)

Woops. Sorry cypress. Wont happen again.

MrR


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## mistabman (May 18, 2008)

My gf is my favorite person to smoke with. She'll come out with me maybe once every week or two and enjoy a nice flavorful med to med-full stick. Usually we enjoy them while walking around our neighborhood or simply sitting out on our deck.


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## Cigary (Oct 19, 2007)

I think while the topic in its general form is fine we need to be realistic,,men are men and women are women and the topics of conversation when men are around will get "salty",,,and any woman who smokes with men should understand that men with men will be or tend to get that way. Add a woman to the mix and you have a different dynamic. Is it right to have to change the dynamics when a woman comes in to the mix? I understand that men should be gentlemen and all,,,but men like boys,,,will be men and boys.

When we go to the football games,,and such we still do what we do even with women in the stands and men are just who we are when we get together. When a woman comes in I try to ensure I keep things mild and respect who is in the room. However, you can't tell me that when a woman comes into the mix that you dont change the direction of the conversation? Facts of life and not wanting to add fire to this but let's all be real and honest. When you get to know the women who smoke cigars and everyone gets a feel for each other,,,,then we can be totally honest without hurting feelings. my 2 cents


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## TanithT (May 30, 2009)

Cigary said:


> Add a woman to the mix and you have a different dynamic. Is it right to have to change the dynamics when a woman comes in to the mix? I understand that men should be gentlemen and all,,,but men like boys,,,will be men and boys.


It really depends on the culture those men and women come from. Some cultures and subcultures have significantly greater dimorphism in their behavioral expectations. When we think of cultures such as the Middle East, we understand that "men and women are different" in terms of their social behavior, and it seems intuitively obvious that in such a culture, social relations between the sexes must be to some extent formal and stilted rather than relaxed and natural.

The dominant culture of modern America is not actually that far off from the Middle East in terms of how different social expectations are of men and women. So when you get men and women together who are from that culture, it can be difficult for either to fully relax and enjoy socializing in mixed gender company.

There are subcultures in America and Europe that very largely lack social dimorphism. Men and women from those cultures are less likely to feel that they are expected to behave differently in one another's company, and feel that they can tell the same jokes, discuss most of the same topics, and be comfortable being "themselves" in one another's company.

I grew up in one of those subcultures, lucky me. So I am not, honestly, much affected by mixed gender company, and I usually find the extremes of both male and female behavior to be a bit strange, especially when they appear to be at odds or in conflict.

The question of "is it fair" to expect a bunch of guys who are relaxing with their stogies to suddenly be on full social alert, curtail their fun and watch their language when a woman wants to smoke with them. No, it's not fair, if they were there first. She can join them - really join them - or not, as she chooses. At that point if one of the guys isn't comfortable with that, then it's more his problem than hers if she's made it clear that she's perfectly okay with the guys just relaxing and being guys.



> When we go to the football games,,and such we still do what we do even with women in the stands and men are just who we are when we get together. When a woman comes in I try to ensure I keep things mild and respect who is in the room. However, you can't tell me that when a woman comes into the mix that you dont change the direction of the conversation? Facts of life and not wanting to add fire to this but let's all be real and honest.


I can't, obviously, speak for every woman in the world, or even every woman from my own subculture. But the only disrespect that would concern me would be sexual hatred and contempt, actual hate speech (racist, homophobic, etc), or speaking of either men or women as objects to be used and taken advantage of. I don't like hearing that about men from women either.

I don't care if people swear or fart or tell sexually explicit jokes. The respect I want shown is *toward everyone*, basically, so the conversation doesn't devolve to "let's bash these people because we're so much better than them." This doesn't mean you can't be clear that your ex-wife or ex-husband was a scumbag, just that it's not fair to say "All men are scum" or "All women are b*tches." To me that crosses the line to hate speech, and it condemns people who mostly aren't guilty.



> When you get to know the women who smoke cigars and everyone gets a feel for each other,,,,then we can be totally honest without hurting feelings. my 2 cents


That would be the ideal goal.


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## Acesfull (Dec 9, 2007)

This thread is very interesting... I guess because I'm the type of person and I will be who I am no matter what or who is around I dont find women any different than men. I even "guy out" in front of my gf and she accepts it. It doesn't mean I love her any less, its just means I am me and she accepts that.


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## 2Curious (May 30, 2009)

TanithT said:


> The question of "is it fair" to expect a bunch of guys who are relaxing with their stogies to suddenly be on full social alert, curtail their fun and watch their language when a woman wants to smoke with them. No, it's not fair, if they were there first. She can join them - really join them - or not, as she chooses. At that point if one of the guys isn't comfortable with that, then it's more his problem than hers if she's made it clear that she's perfectly okay with the guys just relaxing and being guys.


I've thought about this for a few weeks now. How my mere presence hanging at the local B&M affects the group as a whole. The honest truth is, it changes. It's not a good or bad thing, it just "is". It's reality. Most men of a certain age were raised to respect women, so they automatically go into a "mode" when we appear. If I had a nickel for every time a man said "excuse my language" after swearing, forgetting I was there, I would be a billionaire! Since I'm ex-military, I can tell you first hand that the foulest mouthed being on the planet, is not a male truck driver...it is a female drill sergeant. Foul foul creatures, trust me.

Sometimes I try to move around when I'm hanging for a long night at the shop, between the inside seating and the outside seating... to allow men some time on their own, knowing some of them cannot fully relax if I am around. But, I have noticed that the more we all become closer friends, all this becomes moot. 

Also, I'm not sure I would know exactly how to convey/announce to the guys that "I'm perfectly ok with them being guys". How does one announce that, and at what point, 2nd meeting, 3rd meeting, upon first handshake and introduction of names? It's just awkward. 

Easy Example:
I know that any of us that swear occasionally, or frequently for that matter, if we were around our parents, would go into an automatic "parent" mode, without even a conscious thought that we were doing so. It's the same thing with some men when they are in the presence of women, they go in the "mode". It just is. The comment that naturally would spill out about the woman who just walked by, is edited.

In the end, as women, this is something we cannot change. All we can do is try to be attune to it, understanding and realistic.
:decision:


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## slyder (Mar 17, 2009)

2Curious said:


> Since I'm ex-military, I can tell you first hand that the foulest mouthed being on the planet, is not a male truck driver...it is a female drill sergeant. Foul foul creatures, trust me.


LOL how true. When i was in USAF basic in San Antonio we had a couple female drill instructors. They were meaner than the men! I got yelled at my fair share while there but when those women would bark at me Id swear I was on the edge of crying. This one we had was super mean. Her husband ran the Confidence Course and looked like Sgt Slaughter and so did she for that matter!! She was a 200lb monster. She had a chest...not breasts....a chest! I swear she had a beard too. I wanna say her and her husband were both ex Para Rescue or something. Real tuff customers.


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## Acesfull (Dec 9, 2007)

slyder said:


> I wanna say her and her husband were both ex Para Rescue or something. Real tuff customers.


 Not to threadjack but my drill instructor at AF basic told me the same thing... odly enough he didnt wear his badge.. just his medic badge.. You figure if you were a PJ you would be proud enough to wear the badge.. I think thats just a story they tell all the trainees to make them think they are BA


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## slyder (Mar 17, 2009)

Yeah cause once you earn it you wear it no matter what field you go into. Like weapons systems Missle Badge. We wear it even if we start slingin chow at the mess hall. I actually was stationed with a guy that almost made it through PJ training. He got hypothermia in his last couple weeks while diving with no wet suit. So they booted him back to weapons school. He was not happy.


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## Cigary (Oct 19, 2007)

After reading more of this thread there is no doubt in my mind at all that I would love to herf with Tanith and Kerri and feel totally at ease. The way both of these women are able to express themselves freely and confidently with wisdom is something I admire greatly. Thanks for your posts on here.


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## tx_tuff (Jun 16, 2007)

I don't care if me and the boys are smoking at the B&M, local bar, ice house etc... If a woman wants to join us that is fine with me. It doesn't matter to me if its a man or a woman its all about what kind of person they are, if they are good people like everybody I have meet here then its smoke on


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## TanithT (May 30, 2009)

Cigary said:


> After reading more of this thread there is no doubt in my mind at all that I would love to herf with Tanith and Kerri and feel totally at ease. The way both of these women are able to express themselves freely and confidently with wisdom is something I admire greatly. Thanks for your posts on here.


Thank you! :biggrin: Would definitely love to herf with some of the great BOTL's and SOTL's I've met here.


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## 2Curious (May 30, 2009)

TanithT said:


> Thank you! :biggrin: Would definitely love to herf with some of the great BOTL's and SOTL's I've met here.


http://www.cigarforums.net/forums/vb/general-discussion/252021-puff-web-herf-7.html#post2646098

Come join us tomorrow, Tanith!


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## TanithT (May 30, 2009)

That would have been fun, but I was getting ready for the Palmetto State Herf Crew's big Lake Greenwood herf that weekend. It was awesome by the way. Thanks for the invite though!


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## buckwylde (Jun 25, 2009)

I smoke with my girlfriend more than anyone else. She went from hating my cigar smoking (especially when she was quitting cigarettes) to waiting till I get home and inviting me to the porch for a smoke. It is really nice to share one of my favorite hobbies with her. Those who smoke together...stay together. ;-)


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## TTecheTTe (Jun 10, 2012)

I started smoking 21 years ago; a box of Arturo Fuente Hemingways that my hubby bought but did not like. I saw the AF Hemingway Short Story, bought it because it was "cute and feminine," and fell in love! He preferred mild Honduran and Nics, which I hated, as I quickly developed a decided preference for Dominican. In the last year I have expanding my horizons, and have given Nics another try, to my great surprise and shock! They have improved dramatically, and now are much more balanced and complex. If my hub hadn't quit smoking 10yrs ago I might have stayed married to him; I sure do miss the aroma of a great cigar, which you don't enjoy as you smoke.


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## Quine (Nov 9, 2011)

TTecheTTe said:


> I started smoking 21 years ago; a box of Arturo Fuente Hemingways that my hubby bought but did not like. I saw the AF Hemingway Short Story, bought it because it was "cute and feminine," and fell in love! He preferred mild Honduran and Nics, which I hated, as I quickly developed a decided preference for Dominican. In the last year I have expanding my horizons, and have given Nics another try, to my great surprise and shock! They have improved dramatically, and now are much more balanced and complex. If my hub hadn't quit smoking 10yrs ago I might have stayed married to him; I sure do miss the aroma of a great cigar, which you don't enjoy as you smoke.


Well this is certainly an interesting twist... If you haven't read it, try Rudyard Kipling's "The Betrothed" (my signature is it's most famous line) which starts out with the much more stereotypical "it's either me or your cigars!" coming from his wife. As for me I have no issues with women joining men in a smoking lounge. I can hang with men and I can hang with women and for me the mix is always good. I'm a generally polite conversationalist anyway, so my language and behavior don't change when a woman sits down to join me (or a group) for a smoke. Happy to meet a BOTL of either sex.

I turned my GF onto cigars a year ago now and we use our smoke time to chat about anything that comes to mind. My [ex] wife would never have joined me in a smoke, but I don't think she would have divorced me over the hobby (which wasn't a hobby at the time) either.


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## Fuzzy (Jun 19, 2011)

Thanks for bringing this thread back, Mari D'Anne.


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## BurnOne (Feb 26, 2012)

I smoked with my GF a few times but she just can't relax so its pretty seldom. 
I say if you want to smoke then smoke whatever kind of bits you got.
The whole gender roles argument there was interesting but futile as usual. I hope Tanith didn't leave puff because of this thread.


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## upandcoming (May 12, 2012)

A bit of a grave dug thread but Ill bite. My girl and I smoke almost everytime we get the chance. She doesnt usually do a whole one herself but will puff mine every now and again to get the flavors I describe to her. Best chance of quality time I definitely cherish her support in this hobby.


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## smartkid (Jun 5, 2012)

Every now and then i would roll my own cigar on her thigh :mrgreen:


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## Quine (Nov 9, 2011)

upandcoming said:


> A bit of a grave dug thread but Ill bite. My girl and I smoke almost everytime we get the chance. She doesnt usually do a whole one herself but will puff mine every now and again to get the flavors I describe to her. Best chance of quality time I definitely cherish her support in this hobby.


That's how my gf and I started out, she joining me in sharing a cigar. But as I got into stronger (flavor and strength) sticks, she had an harder time sharing them with me. One day visiting a B&M she happened to be with me and I suggested she try a D.E. "natural" and she now has her own stash consisting of some infusions (D.E. Java, Tatiana Java, and a recent bundle of "vanilla cigars" I found at Cuban Crafters for something like $1.50/stick), and D.E. "naturals". As a result of this, the hobby has become a bit more expensive, but in compensation, I get to smoke a whole cigar!


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## smokin3000gt (Apr 25, 2012)

Hemingway in Havana said:


> Devil's advocate:twisted:: Just because these women all appeared on the cover of Cigar Aficionado does _not_ mean that they are cigar smokers. They appeared on the cover in the middle of "the boom" and I'm sure it was probably just for publicity...:biggrin1:


You read my thoughts exactly!


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## smokin3000gt (Apr 25, 2012)

For my lovely young lady, I got her started with the infused smokes. Java was her favorite so I ordered a 5er for her. As I noticed she wasn't smoking as much of the Infused cigars before getting too sweet or too tired of them, I would let her puff on my smoke (I realize how that sounds but I don't think there is a way to word it where you dirty birds won't think that way) and to my surprise she has really enjoyed the little bit she has smoked. So now when we go to the B&M I get something for me and something for her. She has really enjoyed the Olivas and especially the NUB. Even more surprising she is now finishing the cigar, and the other day she actually lit up a second! 

I am happy to see her getting away from the sweet stuff and moving towards a real cigar.


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## smelvis (Sep 7, 2009)

I read this thread before I saw how old it was, early on some pretty bad stuff Kudos to the Mods for taking care of it. If I ever find a gal that mixes well with me I would Love for her to smoke cigars or at the least she would have to accept that I do or it just wouldn't happen period.

I Envy you with partners who enjoy this hobby with you you are lucky guy's


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## TTecheTTe (Jun 10, 2012)

Yes, time to get her a real cigar! Try an Arturo Fuente Heminway Short Story on her...that's the one that got me hooked and is still my fav and my daily.


smokin3000gt said:


> For my lovely young lady, I got her started with the infused smokes. Java was her favorite so I ordered a 5er for her. As I noticed she wasn't smoking as much of the Infused cigars before getting too sweet or too tired of them, I would let her puff on my smoke (I realize how that sounds but I don't think there is a way to word it where you dirty birds won't think that way) and to my surprise she has really enjoyed the little bit she has smoked. So now when we go to the B&M I get something for me and something for her. She has really enjoyed the Olivas and especially the NUB. Even more surprising she is now finishing the cigar, and the other day she actually lit up a second!
> 
> I am happy to see her getting away from the sweet stuff and moving towards a real cigar.


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## smokin3000gt (Apr 25, 2012)

TTecheTTe said:


> Yes, time to get her a real cigar! Try an Arturo Fuente Heminway Short Story on her...that's the one that got me hooked and is still my fav and my daily.


Funny you say that. Last weekend we were at an Alec Bradley event at the B&M and while everyone was smoking AB I went in the humi to get something different and picked up an AF SS. After I lit it up I passed it over to her where she took a few puffs and said WOW! She loved it. I almost had to wrestle it out of her little cigar thieving hands! Luckily I've got a box of Signatures coming so I can rope her in. The more she likes cigars, the more cigars I can smoke in the house! :heh:


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## TTecheTTe (Jun 10, 2012)

Thanks for turning me on to a great read; a must for all cigar lovers! Took me while to find it on Kindle as I was looking for a book. Perfectly articulates my love affair with cigars! Now, if there could just be a man whom loves great cigars and hockey...

You can view my little "haram" on my profile (I'm not yet permitted to post the link). However, she's never empty as I have a 70qt coolador of her sisters and cousins...



Quine said:


> Well this is certainly an interesting twist... If you haven't read it, try Rudyard Kipling's "The Betrothed"


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## TTecheTTe (Jun 10, 2012)

It's an incredible smoke for the RG. Ahh, but there's nothing like being wrapped in the etheral cloud, or downwind, of another's great smoke!


smokin3000gt said:


> Funny you say that. Last weekend we were at an Alec Bradley event at the B&M and while everyone was smoking AB I went in the humi to get something different and picked up an AF SS. After I lit it up I passed it over to her where she took a few puffs and said WOW! She loved it. I almost had to wrestle it out of her little cigar thieving hands! Luckily I've got a box of Signatures coming so I can rope her in. The more she likes cigars, the more cigars I can smoke in the house! :heh:


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## TTecheTTe (Jun 10, 2012)

You're welcome. Didn't know it dead; ignorance has it's advantages...


Fuzzy said:


> Thanks for bringing this thread back, Mari D'Anne.


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## Scottye83 (Jul 22, 2011)

The administrative assistant where I work (who is female) asked me for a cigar recommendation for her fiance who was having his bachelor party last weekend. She mentioned that they both enjoy the occasional cigar. I gave her an early wedding present, an LP No. 9 for his party, and I threw in a Padilla Cazadores for her. All day long I talked up how good the LP was. When she came back to work on Monday she admitted to me that I had made the LP sound so good she had smoked it herself and given her fiance the Padilla. She said it "took her cigar smoking to a whole new level" and now I've noticed her on Cbid a couple times when I walk past her desk.

I think this is awesome because now I have someone to do box splits with at work  In conclusion, women who smoke cigars are great.


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