# News on the embargo's demise?



## krisko (Jul 28, 2007)

I just read in the USA Today that cuban diplomats in the US are launching a new effort to end the US embargo of Cuban products in light of a leadership change in Washington. Apparently they are going to petition the UN to declare the US embargo illegal (good luck with that).

The article said that McCain would keep everything in place until Cuba made more strides towards freedom and democracy. If Obama wins, he would be willing to meet with Raul Castro and allow US citizens to visit family and spend money in Cuba. With improvement in human rights, Obama would end the US embargo.


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## Ashcan Bill (Jul 29, 2006)

krisko said:


> Apparently they are going to petition the UN to declare the US embargo illegal (good luck with that).


That alone would probably be enough to keep it in place another fifty years! :r


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## icehog3 (Feb 20, 2005)

krisko said:


> Apparently they are going to petition the UN to declare the US embargo illegal (good luck with that).


The UN is more impotent than a 90 year old man. :2


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## Blueface (May 28, 2005)

icehog3 said:


> The UN is more impotent than a 90 year old man. :2


On Viagra?


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## icehog3 (Feb 20, 2005)

Blueface said:


> On Viagra?


I'll let you know when I'm 90.  :r


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## ucla695 (Jun 27, 2006)

I'm not holding my breath on this, but hopefully Obama can start to unwind it if he becomes president.


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## totallytentative (Oct 4, 2008)

I take the more cynical view that there are forces behind the scenes that will ensure that the embargo stays in place until either:

a) Castro dies
b) Castro and anyone who knew Castro dies
c) Anyone within living memory of la revolucion dies


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## icehog3 (Feb 20, 2005)

ucla695 said:


> I'm not holding my breath on this, but hopefully Obama can start to unwind it if he becomes president.


I'm holding my nose.


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## mosesbotbol (Sep 21, 2005)

I don't mind if Cuba is "Communist". I do mind whether the people of the island are living at satisfactory economic level, their human rights, and their freedom of thought. They could still live under the veil of Socialism, have an active trade relationship with US and all that. Influx of commercialism and trade will pierce further in Cuba's armor than any embargo has done in 40 years. 

The taste of money and prosperity go a long way.

I hope Obama (if he wins) takes a different approach. If it doesn't work, we can always go back to the way have been treating Cuba. We (and Cuba) live in a much different world than it was in the early 60's.


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## Blueface (May 28, 2005)

mosesbotbol said:


> I don't mind if Cuba is "Communist".
> 
> I do mind whether the people of the island are living at satisfactory economic level, their human rights, and their freedom of thought.


I believe the term for this is "oxymoron".


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## Footbag (May 14, 2008)

Being that Cuba is only about 100 miles from Florida, and we have a military base there; I think that allowing Cubans in America to send money back to their families isa great first domino in a chain. 
I do not believe that the dangers that existed when the embargo was put into place (missles in Cuba)are still of significant worry to Americans. 
At this point I would have no problem with the lifting of the embargo. I think Fidel is past the point of no return, and Raul doesn't appear to have the power or Iron fist that Fidel had.
Remember, we lifted the embargo on Iranian items, and the current situation wasn't enough to replace the embargo there. 
I wouldn't be surprised if we saw the embargo dripped in the next 5 years.



Blueface said:


> I believe the term for this is "oxymoron".


I see freedom of [political] thought as being the only oxymoron, but we have to remember it's not a democracy. For those of us from the USA, it would be hard to consider that true freedom, but a vast majority of Cubans are happy with their current situation. Given they've been conditioned to "socialistic living", they take solstice in it.

When my parents visited Cuba, they met a doctor. He was paid the same as the guy who sells T-shirts on the beach. They asked him why he chose to go through all of the training if he wouldn't be rewarded. He responded because he had the grades and thats where the government expected him to go. It's a totally different type of living, but I wouldn't say they are unhappy.

I do think the theft of the industries [including the cigar] is a crime that may have to go unpunished given how much time has passed.


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## Blueface (May 28, 2005)

Footbag said:


> I think that allowing Cubans in America to send money back to their families isa great first domino in a chain.
> 
> but a vast majority of Cubans are happy with their current situation. Given they've been conditioned to "socialistic living", they take solstice in it.


To the first point:
Done on a regular basis. In fact, what I criticize the most as my relatives want the Embargo but support sending money regularly along with meds and anything they can. Talk about an irony.

To the second point:
:r
Where would any statistics to support that come from? Certainly not from any of the Cubans I know or relatives I still have down there.
Now.....if you want to talk about what they "have to pretend to feel like"? Yeah, they are very, very happy.


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## Footbag (May 14, 2008)

Blueface said:


> To the second point:
> :r
> Where would any statistics to support that come from? Certainly not from any of the Cubans I know or relatives I still have down there.
> Now.....if you want to talk about what they "have to pretend to feel like"? Yeah, they are very, very happy.


Maybe my words should have been a more measured "content" as opposed to "happy" and maybe even that is a bit generous. The opinions I've stated are those of the few people that I've spoken to that have visited Cuba. I have noticed the passion that many on this board speak with on the topic, albeit rightfully so.

One thing I think is difficult to do is judge the happiness of a Cuban from the eyes of an American where happiness is easily confused with wealth; and well being is often ignored.

All that said, my inclination is to believe that the lifting of the embargo will coincide with a rapid influx of cultural ideals that would devastate any government attempting to restrict it.

I am one to vote with my wallet, and if I believed that the money I spend on cigars was primarily being used to suppress as opposed to feed and care for Cubans, I'd stop buying them.


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## Blueface (May 28, 2005)

You raise good points that often misunderstood. I don't hope to change anyone's minds but I hope you see how my points, from an eye witness, vastly vary.



Footbag said:


> Maybe my words should have been a more measured "content" as opposed to "happy" and maybe even that is a bit generous. The opinions I've stated are those of the few people that I've spoken to that have visited Cuba. I have noticed the passion that many on this board speak with on the topic, albeit rightfully so.
> 
> *That is where the problem lies.
> What those that have visited see is not really what they think they see.
> ...


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## Habanolover (Feb 22, 2006)

Carlos, it is always enlightning to see your views on your homeland. :tu


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## Footbag (May 14, 2008)

Blueface said:


> You raise good points that often misunderstood. I don't hope to change anyone's minds but I hope you see how my points, from an eye witness, vastly vary.
> 
> [/b]


Good post. Changing peoples minds is never a bad thing, but sharing a personal story allows people to better understand the realities of individual situations is more valuable. That said, as I'm sure you know this issue is covered with nuance because we all want what is best for the Cuban people and what is worst for the regime. And the regime has positioned itself to prevent us from separating the two.

As for the small point about Cuba as a destination, even though it attracts tourists from all over the world. It is so close to our country that it would have to have a substantial impact on their economy. Even a 35% increase in tourism revenue would be a boost. Whether or not the Cubans would see any benefit is in question.

I would hope and expect, whether the embargo is lifted or not, there would be constant pressure from our government to push for better "freedom of though"as an earlier poster put it.


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## replicant_argent (May 13, 2006)

Might I humbly suggest to anyone that shows interest in this thread to use the Search tool... (our happy little friend). I think before posting after posting of "embargo/lifting/news this week" threads, as has been done at least 2 or 3 times in the past year, you find the pertinent subjects in the sites archives and history and read them. Rather than going through the histrionics of thread evolution. Possible search terms might be Cuba, Cuban, embargo, demise, communist, communism, health care, Castro, (Raul and Fidel), Guevara, atrocities, fear, murder, revolution, firing squads, inequitable living conditions, facade, tourists, Michael Moore, dung-filled loser, United Nations, impotent, etc, etc.........

Only slightly tongue in cheek. You might actually learn more, very quickly, by PM'ing Carlos and asking him a couple of questions. I am sure he will respond with the passion that is in his soul, and give you enough to think about for at least 1 millionth of the time it will take until the actual lifting of the embargo.


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## Blueface (May 28, 2005)

replicant_argent said:


> Might I humbly suggest to anyone that shows interest in this thread to use the Search tool... (our happy little friend). I think before posting after posting of "embargo/lifting/news this week" threads, as has been done at least 2 or 3 times in the past year, you find the pertinent subjects in the sites archives and history and read them. Rather than going through the histrionics of thread evolution. Possible search terms might be Cuba, Cuban, embargo, demise, communist, communism, health care, Castro, (Raul and Fidel), Guevara, atrocities, fear, murder, revolution, firing squads, inequitable living conditions, facade, tourists, Michael Moore, dung-filled loser, United Nations, impotent, etc, etc.........
> 
> *Bitchy today, aren't we Pete?:r*
> 
> ...


See above.


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## krisko (Jul 28, 2007)

I didn't mean for this thread to get political but since it has I'll add my two cents.

There is no reason for the embargo to exist. It's not very 'American' and it certainly has had no beneficial impact on either the people of Cuba or America. Cubans in America are not 'legally' allowed to assist and visit their families in Cuba (they do anyway) and Americans are not allowed to travel to and enjoy products from Cuba (they do anyway). 

It would seem that the best way to introduce change and freedom to a nation is for America to freely trade with it. Trade with America is certainly not a cure for all ills but it certainly can't do any harm. Cuba has items that are in demand in America and America has items that Cuba would certainly like to purchase....what's the holdup? I guess the best support for lifting the embargo is simply the fact that it didn't work. Insanity is continuing to do the same things after 50 years and expecting a different result.

It might be logical to think that the human rights abuses that have occurred in Cuba were aided by the US embargo. There's probably a good chance that the citizens of Cuba would enjoy more freedoms today if they had an open dialogue and trade with the free people of America.

(the above is merely an opinion. please don't slam my RG...again!)


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## NCRadioMan (Feb 28, 2005)

C'mon krisko, we all know logic has no place in politics.


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## Habanolover (Feb 22, 2006)

Very well put krisko. :tu


I would like to mention though that open talk about RG is frowned upon here.


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## krisko (Jul 28, 2007)

madurolover said:


> I would like to mention though that open talk about RG is frowned upon here.


I didn't know that and I was just kidding anyway.


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## Habanolover (Feb 22, 2006)

krisko said:


> I didn't know that and I was just kidding anyway.


No problem brother, just letting you know for future reference. :tu


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## SR Mike (Feb 4, 2008)

The embargo may not last long as Raul is not that young. The embargo names Raul Castro right along with his brother Fidel, the embargo is to remain in effect until they are both out of power.

Will the US remove the embargo with Raul in power? I have no idea. Does it concern me? Not really. Would I like to buy CCs in my local B&M? Absolutely.

I think the USA has enough to worry about, rather than Cuba's government, so we can buy their cigars. They are not threatening to kill Americans. When both Raul and Fidel are gone, then we can look into legally buying Cuban products. First, how about the USA work a little more in the exporting side of the economy, personally I would like to see more "Made in the USA" products at Walmart.


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## Blueface (May 28, 2005)

madurolover said:


> No problem brother, just letting you know for future reference. :tu


:tpd:
However, can't imagine sometimes why folks do things like that over "discussions".
They are just that.
If anyone gets that offended to resort to that, man, just another argument to support why it is abused (both ways).
As close to home as this subject is to me, it is still just nothing more than a discussion. One which none of us can really change today.


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## Blueface (May 28, 2005)

SR Mike said:


> I would like to see more "Made in the USA" products at Walmart.


Now that is one heck of a dream.


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## krisko (Jul 28, 2007)

SR Mike said:


> I think the USA has enough to worry about, rather than Cuba's government, so we can buy their cigars.


This is true...it's back burner stuff. In fact, if Obama wins we may not see him repeal the embargo until his second term where he doesn't care if he can carry Florida.


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## JCK (Nov 9, 2006)

I hear speculation from my Brother-In-Law to be. He left Cuba when he was 5 years old I think. His family lives in the Homestead area. I never hear much dialogue concerning the Embargo, other than disdain for Castro.

I think my brother-in-law would favor the end of the Embargo, but I believe at the same time he was too young to understand the ramifications of Castro's Regime.

With the change of events in Cuba, power going from one Castro to another, do you believe Cuban Americans in Florida still feel the same about the Embargo?


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## Blaylock-cl (Apr 28, 2006)

krisko said:


> I didn't mean for this thread to get political...


Good point.

How 'bout we keep it moving on it's original track.


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## Blueface (May 28, 2005)

khubli said:


> With the change of events in Cuba, power going from one Castro to another, do you believe Cuban Americans in Florida still feel the same about the Embargo?


Ji,
Interesting thing is that there are many Cuban Americans that oppose it (yours truly).
It didn't serve to crush them.
They survived nearly 50 yrs with it.
Time to move on.
However, I understand why the elders feel the way they do.
I just hope I get to see my birthplace again someday.


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## M1903A1 (Jun 7, 2006)

Footbag said:


> Remember, we lifted the embargo on Iranian items, and the current situation wasn't enough to replace the embargo there.


I believe the embargo on Iran has been lifted only slightly, if at all.

Take a look at the OFAC website's list of fines and enacted sanctions, and you'll see lots of penalties having to do with Iran. In fact, last time I looked, there were more penalties for Iranian violations than Cuban ones.


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## Footbag (May 14, 2008)

M1903A1 said:


> I believe the embargo on Iran has been lifted only slightly, if at all.
> 
> Take a look at the OFAC website's list of fines and enacted sanctions, and you'll see lots of penalties having to do with Iran. In fact, last time I looked, there were more penalties for Iranian violations than Cuban ones.


It was lifted on Cashews, Caviar and Rugs, but the main point was that it was Iran. Tensions haven't necessarily been easing there.


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## shilala (Feb 1, 2008)

Blueface said:


> I just hope I get to see my birthplace again someday.


Carlos, Thanks so much for sharing your personal experience. My buddy always says "You don't go to your banker with questions about your haircut, you go to the barber."
A guy can learn about a teaspoon's worth from books. I've learned more that I wanted to learn about Cuba from this thread than I've from anything else I've seen. It's good to hear the truth. :tu

I have a question from your comment above...
When you do get to go back, how do you expect to be received?
Reason I ask is that I don't have any understanding of how the people there feel for the folks that got out.
Would there be jealousy, for instance, or is the general feeling one of happiness for those that have gotten out of Cuba?

I hope it's not too personal a question, I'd love to hear your thoughts. (Far better smoking a cigar with you on your sunporch. Your sunporch and not my porch cause it's friggin freezing here.)


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## Blueface (May 28, 2005)

shilala said:


> Carlos, Thanks so much for sharing your personal experience. My buddy always says "You don't go to your banker with questions about your haircut, you go to the barber."
> A guy can learn about a teaspoon's worth from books. I've learned more that I wanted to learn about Cuba from this thread than I've from anything else I've seen. It's good to hear the truth. :tu
> 
> I have a question from your comment above...
> ...


My pleasure to share.
I am not really sure how I can expect to be received but would guess that it would be with open arms. The Cuban Americans have done a tremendous job of always sending funds and goods to those left behind. We still do on a daily basis. Considering we can bring yet more, I would assume it would never be a hatred towards those of us that left.

Come on down to South Florida and we can share a smoke. It is cold for us today though. 50's this morning and 40's by the lake.


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## JCK (Nov 9, 2006)

Carlos, I do hope that you someday get to visit the Cuba. I believe it's important for 1st Generation Immigrants to keep ties with their ancestry, especially if you have family ties overseas.

I feel blessed that I've had several opportunities to visit South Korea, although I have no recollections since I immigrated when I was a year old.

Both my parents never had the opportunity to re-unite with their parents, the grandparents I could never know. Both of my parents left their families at an early age due to Korean War. My ancestors were caught behind the lines that's considered North Korea now.

I do hope to visit Cuba someday for obvious reasons. :] Perhaps we can smoke the good smoke in Havana someday.


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## Blueface (May 28, 2005)

khubli said:


> Carlos, I do hope that you someday get to visit the Cuba. I believe it's important for 1st Generation Immigrants to keep ties with their ancestry, especially if you have family ties overseas.
> 
> I feel blessed that I've had several opportunities to visit South Korea, although I have no recollections since I immigrated when I was a year old.
> 
> ...


Ji,
All this talk made me throw something crazy out at my wife.
I told her we should plan a trip there for next year.
Not sure if I can pull it off with all that is now going on with my daughter losing her job and me possibly having to fund her for while but, if she gets straightened out, I may go.

I just fear what can happen while I am there and not being able to make it back. I can go there legally as I am Cuban, have family there, so does my wife. She has her dad whom she hasn't seen much in nearly forty years. Twice, for a few days in those years to be exact. He is in failing health and that would be a reason for our visa to be granted. I can see my uncle whom I haven't seen since 1966. Cousins I never met. Visit graves of family I never got to see again alive. Go to El Floridita and sit at the table that was always reserved for dad and have a famous frozen diaquiri. Visit El Malecon and see the waves of the Caribbean crash on it once more. Visit where I grew up, my school, see if friends are still around there. Go to Varadero and enjoy the splendor of one of the most beautiful beaches in the world. And of course, along each step of the way, the largest vitola I can find lit and in my mouth.


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## Habanolover (Feb 22, 2006)

Blueface said:


> Ji,
> All this talk made me throw something crazy out at my wife.
> I told her we should plan a trip there for next year.
> Not sure if I can pull it off with all that is now going on with my daughter losing her job and me possibly having to fund her for while but, if she gets straightened out, I may go.
> ...


Damn Carlos, that would be an excellent trip for the two of you to make.
I hope that you are able do it. :tu


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## RicoPuro (Sep 24, 2008)

Now, auming an end to the embargo becomes a reality: Are we ready to start splurging big bucks to buy legal Cuban smokes in the US? As it is, they are expensive and their quality control has declined in the last 10-15 years. IMHO the best cigar in the world is no longer a Cuban.

Jorge


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## Habanolover (Feb 22, 2006)

RicoPuro said:


> Now, auming an end to the embargo becomes a reality: Are we ready to start splurging big bucks to buy legal Cuban smokes in the US? As it is, they are expensive and their quality control has declined in the last 10-15 years. IMHO the best cigar in the world is no longer a Cuban.
> 
> Jorge


I can buy many of the best Cuban smokes in the world cheaper than I can buy say, an OpusX.


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## Blueface (May 28, 2005)

madurolover said:


> Damn Carlos, that would be an excellent trip for the two of you to make.
> I hope that you are able do it. :tu


I hope so.
I am bent on it now.
If not 2009, can plan for 2010.
Will just need to do a whole lot of planning first.
Need to make sure I leave all matters firmed up with a will and trust funds.
Can't risk something going south while I am there, not making it back and leaving a mess behind.
Sounds like a crazy thought but very much a real one.
My dad screwed the government when he left.
He and I share the same name.
I have always feared they have a checklist as you arrive. Primarily why I have never considered it.
I am sure the visas will take a while to get.
The rest is a breeze from there.


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## Habanolover (Feb 22, 2006)

Blueface said:


> I hope so.
> I am bent on it now.
> If not 2009, can plan for 2010.
> Will just need to do a whole lot of planning first.
> ...


 Any chance of stuffing my fat a$$ in a suitcase? :r


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## Blueface (May 28, 2005)

madurolover said:


> Any chance of stuffing my fat a$$ in a suitcase? :r


As long as it has wheels and you don't mumble while you are in there.:r


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## JCK (Nov 9, 2006)

Carlos.. that sounds like an amazing trip. I definately think you should make this trip, but I'm not sure about that recommendation at the potential cost.

Perhaps there is a way you can get a feel for the current situation before you embark. The memories that you will carry with you after this trip will last a lifetime. God Bless if you do make this trip. If it comes down to it, we'll send the ClubStogie HRT in after you and your family.


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## Blueface (May 28, 2005)

khubli said:


> Carlos.. that sounds like an amazing trip. I definately think you should make this trip, but I'm not sure about that recommendation at the potential cost.
> 
> Perhaps there is a way you can get a feel for the current situation before you embark. The memories that you will carry with you after this trip will last a lifetime. God Bless if you do make this trip. If it comes down to it, we'll send the ClubStogie HRT in after you and your family.


Just checked on current costs (approximate).

$1000 for both passports (Cuban)
$800 airfare for two
$1000 hotel for the week
$700 rental car expense
+ US passport expense for the return trip home
plus meals and other expenses.

$5,000 trip (YIKES!!!)

The cheapest part would be the $20 fee to see Robaina.
I would throw in an extra $80 if he would herf with me.

Hurry up and end this Embargo so I don't need to spend $1000 on my Cuban passports.


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## JCK (Nov 9, 2006)

Do you have U.S. Passports right now?


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## NCRadioMan (Feb 28, 2005)

madurolover said:


> I can buy many of the best Cuban smokes in the world cheaper than I can buy say, an OpusX.


:tpd: Cuban cigars, on the whole, are much cheaper than nc's nowadays. There are many, many great cigars that cost less than $4 a pop.

Carlos, go for it brudda! You can't put a price on great memories and being happy, my friend. If I could, I would go with you! :ss


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## Blueface (May 28, 2005)

NCRadioMan said:


> Carlos, go for it brudda! You can't put a price on great memories and being happy, my friend. If I could, I would go with you! :ss


Forgot,
Add 20% to the exchange.
For $1000, I get $800.

May not happen in 2009 but will shoot for 2010.
I have to get that wife of mine to finally become a US citizen.

Just sucks that I have to go with dual passports as the only way for me to go legally if I go to see family.


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## RicoPuro (Sep 24, 2008)

Blueface:

It is actually a LOT cheaper to purchase a package for an "all inclusive" in Varadero. You still have the chance of visiting "Mecca'' (Havana) which is about 2-3 hours away. We are talking somewhere around $700-1000 for a 3 night package including airfare from Mexican territory.


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## RicoPuro (Sep 24, 2008)

Cigars from LCDH or the factories in Havana are pricey and you don't want to risk purchasing crappy knock-offs from street vendors...


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## blugill (May 26, 2008)

The sad thing is that if our political climate continues in the way it is going by the time the embargo is lifted tobacco will be outlawed.


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## Neuromancer (Sep 7, 2005)

blugill said:


> The sad thing is that if our political climate continues in the way it is going by the time the embargo is lifted tobacco will be outlawed.


Fie, fie...a pox on you even suggesting such a thing...pfffft...pfffft...warding off the evil eye...


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## M1903A1 (Jun 7, 2006)

blugill said:


> The sad thing is that if our political climate continues in the way it is going by the time the embargo is lifted tobacco will be outlawed.


So what? We had speakeasies then, we'll have smokeasies now.

What's old is new again! :ss


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## Snake Hips (May 30, 2008)

M1903A1 said:


> So what? We had speakeasies then, we'll have smokeasies now.
> 
> What's old is new again! :ss


We already have smokeeasies now. I don't think there's a single bar in town that's enforced the smoking ban to any degree here!


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## shilala (Feb 1, 2008)

Blueface said:


> Come on down to South Florida and we can share a smoke. It is cold for us today though. 50's this morning and 40's by the lake.


If I can swing it this winter, Kerri and I will be down to Key Largo. We'll stay near the Pink Plaza, so you can't be too far. I'd love to meet you and your wife, same goes for Kerri. :tu


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## Blueface (May 28, 2005)

shilala said:


> If I can swing it this winter, Kerri and I will be down to Key Largo. We'll stay near the Pink Plaza, so you can't be too far. I'd love to meet you and your wife, same goes for Kerri. :tu


Ahhh.......the pink plaza and Mr. Bill at Island Cigars.
Can be dangerous indeed but fun.
Just let me know and will see if I can swing it.
We try to go down to the Key Largo area once every couple of months at least for an overnighter or two.

Heck, if the embargo goes away, we can do a puddle jumper over to Havana for a smoke there also.


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## Footbag (May 14, 2008)

Blueface said:


> Ahhh.......the pink plaza and Mr. Bill at Island Cigars.
> Can be dangerous indeed but fun.
> Just let me know and will see if I can swing it.
> We try to go down to the Key Largo area once every couple of months at least for an overnighter or two.
> ...


:tpd:I'm up for a Havana Herf!


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## mosesbotbol (Sep 21, 2005)

Smoking could be come illegal in Cuba like it is in several Euro countries sooner than one may think. Countries are signing anti-tobacco stuff as part of WHO treaties and the like... Sheer irony if Cuba does, and I do not see any reason why they wouldn't sign it...


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## Habanolover (Feb 22, 2006)

Footbag said:


> :tpd:I'm up for a Havana Herf!


HAVANA HERF??? WOOOOHOOOO:mn


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## JCK (Nov 9, 2006)

mosesbotbol said:


> Smoking could be come illegal in Cuba like it is in several Euro countries sooner than one may think. Countries are signing anti-tobacco stuff as part of WHO treaties and the like... Sheer irony if Cuba does, and I do not see any reason why they wouldn't sign it...


You think even with a large part of the DNP being tobacco? (my assumption is that tobacco is a large part of the economy, not to mention the traditions in Cuba behind tobacco.)


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## shilala (Feb 1, 2008)

Blueface said:


> Ahhh.......the pink plaza and Mr. Bill at Island Cigars.
> Can be dangerous indeed but fun.
> Just let me know and will see if I can swing it.
> We try to go down to the Key Largo area once every couple of months at least for an overnighter or two.
> ...


They have three day weekenders on Expedia that are pretty cheap. I just have to cross my fingers that I can make some money soon.


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## mosesbotbol (Sep 21, 2005)

khubli said:


> You think even with a large part of the DNP being tobacco? (my assumption is that tobacco is a large part of the economy, not to mention the traditions in Cuba behind tobacco.)


Yes, banning tobacco in public places should have nothing to do with what products are being manufactured in Cuba. These laws are for "public health" and supersede any manufacturing concerns. Certainly, there will be a lot of exemptions as having cigar friendly places is critical to Cuban heritage and tourism, but the laws on the book are inevitable, as they will be in USA.

The States are our only help to keep smoking alive in public. If there was not as much state sovereignty here, smoking would've been banned in public nationally years ago. It's a fervor taking over the world that can't be stopped. Only countries that don't need the money from World Bank and such the will be late or non-adopters of these laws.


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## rizzle (Mar 4, 2008)

madurolover said:


> I can buy many of the best Cuban smokes in the world cheaper than I can buy say, an OpusX.


Probably true, but not every one has that luxury.


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