# Doormat or Significant Other?



## tfar (Dec 27, 2007)

Which category do you belong in?

It always makes me wonder how a lot of male members here submit to their wives' -in my eyes capricious- wish not to smoke in the house. Then they come on the forum and applaud their wives for letting them smoke as a once in a lifetime occasion or whine that they cannot even smoke in the garage (with the possibility of flammable fumes that might not be great anyway).

I don't want to insult anyone and am very respectful of my girlfriend of wife-like proportions (eight years and going strong) but I always think respect goes both ways and tolerance is a large part of it.

I only see a few exceptions:

-medical reasons like asthma, allergy (proven), migraine (proven and under medication) and so forth
- you smoke the cheapest and most awful stinkies (no one here does, I am sure)
- you smoke like a train all day long
- you have babies in the house.


Personally, I think that a cigar from time to time if confined to one room that is properly aerated (that age-old method, try it out) should not bother anyone except for the above conditions.

I mean, imagine, what if you told her she has to do her scrap booking or sewing on the porch because you consider the fumes of glue and the noise of the sewing machine to be pollution and not healthy for you or you just don't like the sound of that machine? Now imagine you do this to her when it is freezing outside. She'd be pi**ed speechless.:gn

If we consider that most couples pay for their abode together and in many cases it is the man who pays for it (and the woman who does the upkeep, but as we saw proper aerating goes a long way), I think you guys should have a more serious and firmer stance on where you WANT to smoke.

So what's your excuse to not grow some balls?

Putting my flamesuit on already. :bx

Till


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## LordOfWu (Dec 31, 2007)

I for one chose to not smoke in the house because I don't like the 'day after' smell (and I smoke pretty much every day, so it wouldn't go away). My wife agreed that once we have the finances set we will build a sun room/smoke room.

Next, I have kids, so that's obvious, but I made the decision before they came along.

Finally, it's a matter of respect...you have some good points, and my wife is very respectful of some things she does that I don't like the smell of (popcorn is one )


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## pakrat (Feb 10, 2008)

I smoke outside. Not because she makes me, but because I choose to. She smoked cigs for years before I got into cigars. When we bought a house and remodeled it, I wouldn't let her smoke inside. She had to smoke outside, rain or shine(no covered porch for the first year). Now, to be fair, I smoke my cigars outside. I just can't justify doing something that I wouldn't let her do.:ss


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## SR Mike (Feb 4, 2008)

LordOfWu said:


> Finally, it's a matter of respect...you have some good points, and my wife is very respectful of some things she does that I don't like the smell of (popcorn is one )


Respect all the way. My wife tells me all the time that she does not mind if I smoke inside. She does not smoke, has no desire to, so what is the point of me sitting around smoking inside? I have a place to go if I want to smoke, sure it is 15 miles away from home, but only one mile away from work.

When I purchased my home, it was from an indoor smoker, the walls and ceilings were yellow, that was after new white paint was applied too. I have seen and smelled the damage and personally do not want this place to return to that.

I do not smoke everyday either. She does not mind me smoking, so I do not mind keeping it away from her.


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## tfar (Dec 27, 2007)

pakrat said:


> I smoke outside. Not because she makes me, but because I choose to. She smoked cigs for years before I got into cigars. When we bought a house and remodeled it, I wouldn't let her smoke inside. She had to smoke outside, rain or shine(no covered porch for the first year). Now, to be fair, I smoke my cigars outside. I just can't justify doing something that I wouldn't let her do.:ss


Fair stance, I can see that. Of course, you could always humbly apologize for your idiotic bitchiness in the cigarette matter and ask if she could forgive you (jewelry helps) and let you smoke cigars inside. Or you could say that cigars are really not the same thing as cigarettes.

I don't know about anyone else but I really find that cigar smoke sticks around less than cigarette smoke and when stale doesn't smell so badly. Naturally, one should not let it get stale and it is easier to aerate after a single cigar than to aerate after each cigarette.

My mother has been smoking cigarettes for 45 years. She is between one and two packs a day now. She aerates the entire place completely over night. But climate and location make that possible (no one can get in while the window is open). The place still smells smoky and she has to repaint at least every three years. It tried to convince her that those thousands of dollars were better spent in fitness classes or vacation but she just won't listen. :chk

Till


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## tfar (Dec 27, 2007)

I should specify that if you choose to smoke outside for reasons independent of your significant other you are, of course, not a doormat. In fact, I prefer to smoke on the porch weather permitting because it is quite nice out there and because I feel my cigar tastes better when I breathe fresh air.

Till


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## tfar (Dec 27, 2007)

SR Mike said:


> Respect all the way. My wife tells me all the time that she does not mind if I smoke inside. She does not smoke, has no desire to, so what is the point of me sitting around smoking inside? I have a place to go if I want to smoke, sure it is 15 miles away from home, but only one mile away from work.
> 
> When I purchased my home, it was from an indoor smoker, the walls and ceilings were yellow, that was after new white paint was applied too. I have seen and smelled the damage and personally do not want this place to return to that.
> 
> I do not smoke everyday either. She does not mind me smoking, so I do not mind keeping it away from her.


If she really doesn't mind you smoking there is no point keeping it away from her.

If you don't smoke daily and you aerate well, your house will not get yellow again so no need to drive somewhere else to smoke. Unless, that is you like that other place better. But again, this has nothing to do with her so it doesn't apply here.

Till


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## Cheeto (May 10, 2007)

cigar smoke smells. It makes everything smell. I don't like walking into a smoker's house let alone buying one. It takes a lot of work to get the odors of smoke out of fabrics and the walls. Even if I somehow was able to smoke inside, I don't think I would. Maybe on occasion but nothing major. Besides I don't get outside enough as it is.


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## EvanS (Dec 29, 2006)

Wife and I haven't smoked in the house for 10+ years...by mutual choice. But that's us in our day to day environment. Parties and gatherings, especially if the weather is bad...bring it on inside. Everything airs out just fine from the occasional HERF


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## tfar (Dec 27, 2007)

Cheeto said:


> cigar smoke smells. It makes everything smell. I don't like walking into a smoker's house let alone buying one. It takes a lot of work to get the odors of smoke out of fabrics and the walls. Even if I somehow was able to smoke inside, I don't think I would. Maybe on occasion but nothing major. Besides I don't get outside enough as it is.


Again, house preservation on your own will has nothing to do with the doormat vs. balls question. Or is it the wife who makes you care about this question? It doesn't seem so.

Check out the recent thread we had on different smoke-out detergents. There is some potent stuff in there. Also, when you do buy a house and you know you will smoke in there, you can outfit it in a way that attracts less odors e.g. wood or laminate floors, washable wall paint, blinds instead of fabrics.

It goes without saying that the decoration choices might be more important to you and your wife than where you smoke.

I think this will be an interesting thread.

Till


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## smokeyscotch (Apr 26, 2007)

I smoke outside out of respect for my house and those in it. I smoked on the recliner today only because we were ventilating the whole house. I don't want the house smelling like stogies any more than she does. If it is really cold out, I do place a fan at the door and close myself off to enjoy a cigar. 
On a side note. There are S'sOTL on this forum that along with my wife may not want to be stereotyped as sewers and scrapbookers. My wife as well as other women can shoot, weld, paint, along with many other things, just like we do. She never puts down my smoking cigars. She realizes the R&R they allow me. I refuse to answer the poll due to it either being the MAN of the house or a "Door Mat". You left out the the respect for eachother part. I am not angry, or defensive. It just seems a little sexest is all.:2


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## zmancbr (Nov 20, 2007)

I don't smoke in the house but rather at the cigar shop here in town. I am a pretty big regular there since its about a mile or less away. Keeps the house fresh and its fun there anyway. But come summer time, I will prob move to the porch!!:tu

However, she does tolerate my stinky clothes and that makes her a keeper to me!


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## Guest (Feb 24, 2008)

smokeyscotch said:


> I smoke outside out of respect for my house and those in it. I smoked on the recliner today only because we were ventilating the whole house. I don't want the house smelling like stogies any more than she does. If it is really cold out, I do place a fan at the door and close myself off to enjoy a cigar.
> On a side note. There are S'sOTL on this forum that along with my wife may not want to be stereotyped as sewers and scrapbookers. My wife as well as other women can shoot, weld, paint, along with many other things, just like we do. She never puts down my smoking cigars. She realizes the R&R they allow me. I refuse to answer the poll due to it either being the MAN of the house or a "Door Mat". You left out the the respect for eachother part. I am not angry, or defensive. It just seems a little sexest is all.:2


:tpd:

Well said, Tim


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## tfar (Dec 27, 2007)

smokeyscotch said:


> I smoke outside out of respect for my house and those in it. I smoked on the recliner today only because we were ventilating the whole house. I don't want the house smelling like stogies any more than she does. If it is really cold out, I do place a fan at the door and close myself off to enjoy a cigar.
> On a side note. There are S'sOTL on this forum that along with my wife may not want to be stereotyped as sewers and scrapbookers. My wife as well as other women can shoot, weld, paint, along with many other things, just like we do. She never puts down my smoking cigars. She realizes the R&R they allow me. I refuse to answer the poll due to it either being the MAN of the house or a "Door Mat". You left out the the respect for eachother part. I am not angry, or defensive. It just seems a little sexest is all.:2


Tim, of course, I made it explicitly and deliberately sexist and stereotyped in order to make a point. You can just replace not liking the sound of the sewing machine with not liking the shine of her arc welder.

I thought I had made the point of RESPECT and TOLERANCE very clear in my initial post and all following statements. "I don't want to insult anyone and am very respectful of my girlfriend of wife-like proportions (eight years and going strong) but I always think respect goes both ways and tolerance is a large part of it."

There are three options in the poll. The first is the doormat, the second is a middle ground that you stand on firmly against a capricious wish and the third is the super macho that says I smoke where I wish if she doesn't like it she can leave.

I must admit that I am generally very respectful of my partners but also that I have had, in a distant past, too many women who thought they could bitch on virtue of being women. Even the current one sometimes tries to impose her will on me in a way that I find anywhere between castrating and spoiling the fun. The reason we are still together is that I have made it very clear that this would not fly anymore. I let it slip too many times and was too unhappy. We are both much happier and respect and tolerate each other more now that those things have been clarified. It took literally years and tears to get there.

So, maybe the poll is a bit abrasive because I was once dangerously close to the doormat and would secretly like to be the super macho with a harem in a desert palace but am really just in the middle.:r

FYI, I was raised by a single mother and read her hardcore feminist magazines at age 10 already. My current gf has studied feminism extensively and I am grateful for the eye-opening conversations I have had with her about it. I could almost bet I am in the top-ten percentile of non-sexist males.

Till


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## havana_lover (Feb 15, 2007)

smokeyscotch said:


> I smoke outside out of respect for my house and those in it. I smoked on the recliner today only because we were ventilating the whole house. I don't want the house smelling like stogies any more than she does. If it is really cold out, I do place a fan at the door and close myself off to enjoy a cigar.
> On a side note. There are S'sOTL on this forum that along with my wife may not want to be stereotyped as sewers and scrapbookers. My wife as well as other women can shoot, weld, paint, along with many other things, just like we do. She never puts down my smoking cigars. She realizes the R&R they allow me. I refuse to answer the poll due to it either being the MAN of the house or a "Door Mat". You left out the the respect for eachother part. I am not angry, or defensive. It just seems a little sexest is all.:2


:tpd:


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## taltos (Feb 28, 2006)

This might be the most arrogant and obnoxious posting that I have seen in my 3 years of reading this board and my 2 years of being a member. I do not smoke in our house because the smoke bothers her and not for any medical condition. Believe it or not, smoke can bother other people even if they do not have athsma or any other medical conditions. After 26 years of marriage, I think that I can say that a relationship is based upon mutual respect and concessions on both sides. If your attitude is typical of those in Austin, I know one city to avoid ever visiting.


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## Syekick (Jun 5, 2007)

Cheeto said:


> cigar smoke smells. It makes everything smell. I don't like walking into a smoker's house let alone buying one. It takes a lot of work to get the odors of smoke out of fabrics and the walls. Even if I somehow was able to smoke inside, I don't think I would. Maybe on occasion but nothing major. Besides I don't get outside enough as it is.


:tpd: Absolutely. Up until a decade back, I used to smoke cigarettes, in the house. After I quit we wound up moving two years later and I learned how much better a new smoke free home could be. A smoke free home doesn't reek. Plus, no discolored walls. After a few years, remove your pictures from the walls to see that for yourself.


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## shilala (Feb 1, 2008)

I don't smoke in the house and neither does my girlfriend.
I have always subscribed to the "Cleanliness is next to Godliness" theme.
There are two air cleaners and two humidifiers running in the house and it's kept very clean at all times. It's because I want to provide the healthiest possible atmosphere for us and our kids.
My girlfriend is 100% on board with that and she keeps a very nice house.

So I guess our situation doesn't fall within the confines of the original post.
I guess I just don't want the house to smell like an ashtray. I don't want it to smell like a bar or a barn, either. It's not that tose things are at all "bad" or "wrong", and I don't think of it that way. It's just that a barn should smell like a barn and my house shouldn't.

Did you guys ever buy a book or something from ebay that came from a smoker's house?
I did once. They were so gross that I threw them in the garbage. I could smell the box outside on the front porch when I opened the door.
That's friggin nasty.

Oh yeah, one more thing...
The girlfriend has no issue with me smoking cigars. She doesn't even complain when I stink. She thinks it's cute. 
I'm far more disturbed by my lingering smell than she is.


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## Racer3 (Nov 27, 2006)

I choose not to smoke in the house, I just don't enjoy it. Nothing better than sitting outside to enjoy a good cigar. My wife allows me to smoke inside if I want to. The same goes for her, she smokes cigaretts, so if either one wants to smoke in the house it ok. But we do limit where we smoke to the kitchen.:tu


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## AD720 (Jan 14, 2008)

Do to the cold weather I have created a smoking room in a small room in my basement. There are two small windows in there so I open one of them, put a fan in it and smoke. I try hard not to open the doors that separate that small room from the rest of the basement and it seems to work. A slight smell permeates through the house if it is a strong smoke or if I have more than just me smoking down there and it really aggravates me but I think a better exhaust fan (maybe an old range hood?) would help. I have a little TV and a space heater in there so it is a pretty cool little man-cave. 

But honestly, I can't wait for the weather to warm up a but so I can go back to smoking outside. I prefer it.

And even if the girlfriend was cool with smoking indoors, I wouldn't be. I don't want the house to smell like smoke. Plus I have some expensive electronics that I wouldn't want to be infiltrated by smoke.


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## icehog3 (Feb 20, 2005)

tfar said:


> If she really doesn't mind you smoking there is no point keeping it away from her.


There is a difference between a spouse not "mind(ing) you smoking", and wanting to be subjected to the smoke and the smell themselves. So I don't understand your statement "there is no point in keeping it away from (them)" at all.


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## ucla695 (Jun 27, 2006)

I used to smoke inside before I got married and actually enjoyed it quite a bit. I found it to be a little more relaxing to smoke while watching TV or listening to music. I could also pick up on the subtle flavors and aroma of the smoke a little better. Now, out of respect for my wife, I choose to smoke outside because I don't want our place smelling like stale cigar smoke. Plus, the Ipod Touch helps on the entertainment factor and I can smoke in peace.


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## vstrommark (Oct 25, 2007)

Two things:

1. You made your poll gender specific. Many SOTL here.
2. You don't list my situation. I am the smoker in the family and I made the rule for no smoking inside.

I have many friends who do not smoke, plus I'm not overly fond of the lingering smell of cigar or cigarette smoke. I herf in the garage in bad weather and the linger smell there annoys me. So I am the source of my own annoyance.

I like the after smell of my pipe tobacco but still smoke only outside or in the garage.


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## massphatness (Jan 4, 2008)

Can I plead the fifth?


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## SilverFox (Feb 19, 2008)

smokeyscotch said:


> I smoke outside out of respect for my house and those in it. I smoked on the recliner today only because we were ventilating the whole house. I don't want the house smelling like stogies any more than she does. If it is really cold out, I do place a fan at the door and close myself off to enjoy a cigar.
> On a side note. There are S'sOTL on this forum that along with my wife may not want to be stereotyped as sewers and scrapbookers. My wife as well as other women can shoot, weld, paint, along with many other things, just like we do. She never puts down my smoking cigars. She realizes the R&R they allow me. I refuse to answer the poll due to it either being the MAN of the house or a "Door Mat". You left out the the respect for eachother part. I am not angry, or defensive. It just seems a little sexest is all.:2


I am fully with Tim on this one. I don't smoke in the house for a number of reasons.

My wife is allergic to Tobacco smoke.
I don't like the smell of stale Tobacco smoke (in fact I have a tobacco jacket (ok beat up ole hunting jacket) that stays in the garage that I smoke in so my clothes dont smell of it.
I will never let my kids see me smoking them (they are too young yet to know the difference between cigars and cigarettes)
My garage is my place, yup tools, cold, concrete floor etc. But all my stuff, not a common area.

Now to the root, even if all of the above where not in play I would not do it in the house if my wife asked me not too. Same reason I wouldn't go out and play poker, or head out to the hockey game with the boys if she asked me not too. Why, well its simple, 18 years ago I made a vow to commit to her for the rest of my life and I take that very seriously. I am just as much in love with my wife as the day we got married maybe more so, so I do what she asks me out of respect and devotion to her and our commitment to each other. Now before you go throwing me under the bus as the resident door mat recognize that she would do the same for me and that she would only ask me to do or not to do things with a reason. Am I far more tolerant than she is, you betcha so I don't particularly care what color she want to paint the house, or if what piece of art goes where on the wall, when I done have an opinion she respects it.

Not sure if that was clear or not but in the end I agree with Tim, I wouldn't answer the poll based on the extremes it presents and the stereotype it seems to insinuate but then that is the great thing about this forum, opinions and the right to state them.

:ss


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## Da Klugs (Jan 8, 2005)

You can make any room a smoking room with the proper ventillation. Negative pressure (air only flows into the room based upon the CFM rating of the fan) ensures that no smell occurs anywhere but there. It limits the residual smell that proper cleaning and an Ozone machine takes care of pretty well.

Find the right room in the house if you have one. Spec and price the fan and installation. Find the appropriate piece of jewelry for the wife.. lets make a deal time.  (SOTL's please substitue Power Tool for jewelry and husband for wife))


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## thebiglebowski (Dec 19, 2005)

taltos said:


> This might be the most arrogant and obnoxious posting that I have seen in my 3 years of reading this board and my 2 years of being a member. I do not smoke in our house because the smoke bothers her and not for any medical condition. Believe it or not, smoke can bother other people even if they do not have athsma or any other medical conditions. After 26 years of marriage, I think that I can say that a relationship is based upon mutual respect and concessions on both sides. If your attitude is typical of those in Austin, I know one city to avoid ever visiting.


i'm kinda with taltos here. tfar, despite your exposure to "feminism" at an early age, you're coming across as being pretty misogynistic with this poll/question/post. as many others have stated, it's my choice not to smoke a cigar inside, not a strict mandate by my wife. it stinks. it gets in the fabric of your furniture, on your walls, in your carpet, rugs, etc. you talk about properly aerating after a smoke, but never really explain what you mean by that. all i can think of is opening the windows of your house? at this time of year that could be deadly in most parts of this country.

that being said, i had posted sometime last year that my jenn-air cooktop's vent is so efficient that i can smoke a cigar at my stove area in the kitchen and it doesn't stink! my wife doesn't mind it at all and when it's chilly, like now, i will smoke in the house. i try not to make a habit of it, though.


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## floydpink (Feb 15, 2007)

My wife hates the smell of cigars but smokes cigs, go figure.

My daughter is 3 and already lectures me when we go to the mall that I'm not buying cigars at my favorite B&M.

I have it rough as a smoker, but love my family, so I either go out to the patio and smoke a cigar in the Jacuzzi or out to the garage and mess around with something and smoke.

It seems to be a comfortable balance based on trying to keep everyone happy and also not exposing my little girl to second hand smoke.

If this qualifies me as a doormat, please wipe your feet gently when you walk on my face!!


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## Silky01 (Jul 16, 2007)

Damn, reading this thread makes me glad I'm single and even more so, makes me want to light up one. I do smoke in my apartment, and I just had to find another (d/t moving soon) and luckly, the guy didn't cared at all about me smoking there--he was actually more worried about me having cats! But, I do realize the smell lingers; I've tried a lot of stuff to get it out, but this being single, and having friends over often, this is something they have gotten used to knowing me. When marriage comes, I'll decide then if it's an outside thing or what not. I'd definitely prefer a smoking room, and will put the money into it to decrease the circulation to the other parts of the house/etc. It'd be my mancave.


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## Wolfgang8810 (Jan 17, 2008)

I simply choose not to. When i get ready to smoke a cigar (especially an expensiive one) I go outside with my cigar, cutter, Glass of green tea, and a lighter. Its just me and the cigar. No outside interuptions (unless in emergancy) That is the way I think you get the most out of a cigar.

On another note hasnt anyone heard of FEBREEZE lol


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## hornitosmonster (Sep 5, 2006)

I joke about my wife not letting me but to be truthful I would never choose to smoke in my house...I just do not like that moldy-day after smell...


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## PadronMe (Apr 26, 2005)

tfar said:


> my girlfriend of wife-like proportions (eight years and going strong)





tfar said:


> So what's your excuse to not grow some balls?


What's yours?


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## duhman (Dec 3, 2007)

hornitosmonster said:


> I joke about my wife not letting me but to be truthful I would never choose to smoke in my house...I just do not like that moldy-day after smell...


Same here. My wife hates the smell and it's not a big deal for me to not have to let her smell it.


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## Silky01 (Jul 16, 2007)

Wolfgang8810 said:


> On another note hasnt anyone heard of FEBREEZE lol


I febreezed the hell outta my car 2 days before, the day before, and day of a trip, plus aired it out--my friend with the super-sensitive nose smelled nothing, but the other, it still made her nauseous (I'm thinking it was psychological cause she expected to smell it, so she did--plus she didn't sensitize to it even after 6hrs in my car the other day).


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## Darrell (Aug 12, 2007)

I would not smoke in the house if I could. I rather be courteous to her and the kids, they don't really enjoy cigar smoke, so I am not going to make them smell it where they eat, sleep, and play.


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## RUJohnny99 (Jan 20, 2008)

I didn't even smoke in the house when I lived alone.


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## SR Mike (Feb 4, 2008)

tfar said:


> If she really doesn't mind you smoking there is no point keeping it away from her.
> 
> If you don't smoke daily and you aerate well, your house will not get yellow again so no need to drive somewhere else to smoke. Unless, that is you like that other place better. But again, this has nothing to do with her so it doesn't apply here.
> 
> Till


My smoking has just as much to do with her as me. I respect her, if you cannot see past that, then I feel sorry for any girl you are involved with.


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## Pablo (Oct 13, 1997)

I choose to smoke outside because I would not want to expose my wife and children to the residual smoke.

They more than tolerate me and my myriad of habits, I see smoking outside as nothing more than respect for them. If that means I am a doormat or lacking kahunas...then I am what I am! :tu


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## icehog3 (Feb 20, 2005)

pds said:


> I choose to smoke outside because I would not want to expose my wife and children to the residual smoke.
> 
> They more than tolerate me and my myriad of habits, I see smoking outside as nothing more than respect for them. If that means I am a doormat or lacking kahunas...then I am what I am! :tu


Lacking kahunas? You ARE the Big Kahuna, Paul!!


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## Pablo (Oct 13, 1997)

icehog3 said:


> Lacking kahunas? You ARE the Big Kahuna, Paul!!


Aww, quit it. Your making me blush.

Honestly though, I think some folks here are confusing respect for being a doormat. That's Ok though, those kind of differentiations tend to come from time spent on earth. That I have plenty of!


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## taltos (Feb 28, 2006)

I think that with his attitude, his girlfriend is lucky that they are not married. He does not even have the cojones to come back and answer some of the responses. Another set of internet balls.


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## icehog3 (Feb 20, 2005)

pds said:


> Aww, quit it. Your making me blush.
> 
> Honestly though, I think some folks here are confusing respect for being a doormat. That's Ok though, those kind of differentiations tend to come from time spent on earth. That I have plenty of!


I think I might rival ya on that one Paul...we're a couple of old flucks!


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## floydpink (Feb 15, 2007)

I'm old too and hopefully wiser, but definitely uglier than when I had all my hair.

I find that the older I get, the more I treat others as I would like to be treated.

Also, I like going to bed at peace with my wife opposed to at war.

Considering my loud motorcycle, constant need for new toys, and cigar breath and reoccuring gas, my wife is quite tolerant.


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## taltos (Feb 28, 2006)

floydpink said:


> I'm old too and hopefully wiser, but definitely uglier than when I had all my hair.
> 
> I find that the older I get, the more I treat others as I would like to be treated.
> 
> Also, I like going to bed at peace with my wife opposed to at war.


Still have all my hair but otherwise totally in agreement. Good points sir!


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## Ashcan Bill (Jul 29, 2006)

pds said:


> Aww, quit it. Your making me blush.
> 
> Honestly though, I think some folks here are confusing respect for being a doormat. That's Ok though, those kind of differentiations tend to come from time spent on earth. That I have plenty of!





icehog3 said:


> I think I might rival ya on that one Paul...we're a couple of old flucks!


Damn kids. :r

My wife supports my cigar smoking, but doesn't particulary care for the smell. I love her enough to smoke outside, which I prefer anyway. Never thought of myself as a doormat, but then again I've never felt much need to project a macho persona. Guess I'm a doormat.


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## awsmith4 (Jun 5, 2007)

I actually prefer to smoke outside and in my experience keeps me from smoking too many.


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## gocowboys (May 20, 2007)

awsmith4 said:


> I actually prefer to smoke outside and in my experience keeps me from smoking too many.


How you smoke too many?


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## awsmith4 (Jun 5, 2007)

reggiebuckeye said:


> How you smoke too many?


My wallet could explain for me but I also find if I have too many my taste buds suffer as well


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## gocowboys (May 20, 2007)

awsmith4 said:


> My wallet could explain for me but I also find if I have too many my taste buds suffer as well


I got you.


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## BigVito (Jan 1, 2000)

I smoke outside. :ss I guess Im dormant


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## thebiglebowski (Dec 19, 2005)

BigVito said:


> I smoke outside. :ss I guess Im dormant


vito - you're only dormant, cuz it's winter and it's freaking cold in wisconsin!


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## slimm (Feb 24, 2008)

Not a doormat, but do not smoke indoors due to children 7 & 5. Perhaps when I get a home with a theater room.......


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## BigVito (Jan 1, 2000)

thebiglebowski said:


> vito - you're only dormant, cuz it's winter and it's freaking cold in wisconsin!


:r someone forgot to pay the heating bill


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## Major Captain Silly (May 24, 2007)

I smoke outside at my wife's request. I guess that make me a 6'5'' 260lb doormat. You wanna come wipe your feet on me? 

MCS


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## shilala (Feb 1, 2008)

Major Captain Silly said:


> I smoke outside at my wife's request. I guess that make me a 6'5'' 260lb doormat. You wanna come wipe your feet on me?
> 
> MCS


hehehehe


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## icehog3 (Feb 20, 2005)

Major Captain Silly said:


> I smoke outside at my wife's request. I guess that make me a 6'5'' 260lb doormat. You wanna come wipe your feet on me?
> 
> MCS


No....but I like you!


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## Major Captain Silly (May 24, 2007)

icehog3 said:


> No....but I like you!


Then get over here and give me a hug!

MCS


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## icehog3 (Feb 20, 2005)

Major Captain Silly said:


> Then get over here and give me a hug!
> 
> MCS


Two men over 6'2 tall and 240 pounds hugging?

Sounds good to me! Leave the light on! :r


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## Guest (Feb 25, 2008)

icehog3 said:


> Two men over 6'2 tall and 240 pounds hugging?
> 
> Sounds good to me! Leave the light on! :r


That's just wrong, on soooooo many levels!!

(Can I get photos?)


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## LasciviousXXX (Oct 12, 2004)

Marriage, like other things in life, is a constant compromise. When you get married I'm sure you'll see that as well.

I smoke on our porch because I'm compromising. I buy a lot of cigars and am fanatical about cigars to the point of obsession so I choose not to expose her to the smell of cigars in the house as well as my incessant talking about them, obsessing over them, looking at them, collecting them, etc.

IMO its less about being a "doormat" or not having any balls and more about compromise and trying to have a healthy relationship :2


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## Shabalula (Feb 24, 2007)

My wife has repeatedly said that she doesn't mind me smoking the occasional cigar in the house, as long as the windows are open and fans are going. That's reasonable. The smell of an occasional cigar does not linger long if, as other BOTL's have mentioned, there is proper ventilation.

I don't smoke inside however. Reason 1 is that I have 3 kids, all under 5. This may be my first reason, but its not really a rational one. The room I would smoke in is not one that the kids are in regularly, in fact, we try and keep them out as much as possible.

Reason 2 is the main reason that I don't smoke in the house; the fans are outside in the shed and I'm too lazy to go out and get them. 

I live in Southern California, so weather is not really an issue and I like to sit on the front porch and have a nice smoke. That way, if I see one of my neighbors out and about, I can tell them to come over and have a smoke with me. :ss


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## M1903A1 (Jun 7, 2006)

LasciviousXXX said:


> Marriage, like other things in life, is a constant compromise. When you get married I'm sure you'll see that as well.
> 
> I smoke on our porch because I'm compromising. I buy a lot of cigars and am fanatical about cigars to the point of obsession so I choose not to expose her to the smell of cigars in the house as well as my incessant talking about them, obsessing over them, looking at them, collecting them, etc.
> 
> IMO its less about being a "doormat" or not having any balls and more about compromise and trying to have a healthy relationship :2


DINGDINGDINGDINGDING!!!!!! :tu

Sooooo many people, on so many levels and over so many things, need to understand this.

(And yeah, I'm single...but that makes me objective as well as an astute observer!)


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## ChasDen (Dec 12, 2007)

Since my cigar addiction has cost us so much money I include the wife as much as I can. She asks me what I like about certain cigars and dislike about others. As a pipe smoker and ex-cigarette smoker I am all to well aware of stinky cars, apartments and cloths. One thing we were discussing once winter came along was where I would smoke my cigars. She still smokes cigarettes but generally only a few a night in the house. I told her the smell of the cigarettes bothered me in our bed room so she try’s not to smoke in there after dinner. As avid outdoors people in the summer I often smoke outdoors (weather permitting) but when it’s below freezing no way. So to compromise I started smoking relatively smaller cigars and ones that don’t fill the whole house with smoke like a swat team incendiary device. When she smells one she does not like she tells me and that’s the last time I smoke that one inside. By compromising this way I get to smoke indoors and she gets to say no when it bothers her. Many times it strikes up conversations about the various smells that make me concentrate on just what I taste so I can explain it to her. 

I was describing this conversation to her tonight before she went to bed and she brought up a good point. Our situation is truly a compromise; 2 sides working towards a common middle ground. For those of you who claim you are compromising by smoking outdoors, how is that a compromise at a common middle ground? Say you are doing it out of respect, fine but we don’t see it as a compromise. 

As for the smell, what in the world are you guys smoking that stinks up your place that bad? I smoke 1 cigar a day indoors on the weekends and maybe 2 total during the week. We have a pretty big place that is well ventilated and I smell the meatballs I cooked last night lingering through the house but for the life of me can not smell the Torano Exodus 1959 I smoked after dinner.

Chas


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## j6ppc (Jun 5, 2006)

pds said:


> Aww, quit it. Your making me blush.
> 
> Honestly though, I think some folks here are confusing respect for being a doormat.


Well said. Most relationships involve *respect*, give, take and a modicum of compromise.


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## pnoon (Jun 8, 2005)

j6ppc said:


> Well said. Most relationships involve *respect*, give, take and a modicum of compromise.


Welcome to the jungle.


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## tfar (Dec 27, 2007)

ChasDen said:


> Since my cigar addiction has cost us so much money I include the wife as much as I can. She asks me what I like about certain cigars and dislike about others. As a pipe smoker and ex-cigarette smoker I am all to well aware of stinky cars, apartments and cloths. One thing we were discussing once winter came along was where I would smoke my cigars. She still smokes cigarettes but generally only a few a night in the house. I told her the smell of the cigarettes bothered me in our bed room so she try's not to smoke in there after dinner. As avid outdoors people in the summer I often smoke outdoors (weather permitting) but when it's below freezing no way. So to compromise I started smoking relatively smaller cigars and ones that don't fill the whole house with smoke like a swat team incendiary device. When she smells one she does not like she tells me and that's the last time I smoke that one inside. By compromising this way I get to smoke indoors and she gets to say no when it bothers her. Many times it strikes up conversations about the various smells that make me concentrate on just what I taste so I can explain it to her.
> 
> I was describing this conversation to her tonight before she went to bed and she brought up a good point. Our situation is truly a compromise; 2 sides working towards a common middle ground. For those of you who claim you are compromising by smoking outdoors, how is that a compromise at a common middle ground? Say you are doing it out of respect, fine but we don't see it as a compromise.
> 
> ...


Wow, 24 hours, 5 pages and a couple of attempted personal low blows coming out of the defensive corner, guess this poll is a real success. 

Chas's post is exactly my position on the subject. That is what I call true respect and tolerance. It is a true and fair compromise.

As a matter of fact, between typing this line and the previous lines the following happened: I relit my pipe several types with a lighter that has a pretty loud click sound. So my GF knocks on the wall to tell me she wants me to come over. Like the good Pavlovian poodle I am, I go over to her bedroom which is next to the smoking room (see here http://www.clubstogie.com/vb/showthread.php?t=136674&highlight=fumoir ). She tells me the click-click of my lighter is preventing her from sleeping and she can still hear the music even though I turned it way down. I say "No problem, darling", I turn off the music and use another lighter. Problem solved.

Some of you obviously have thin skin (a common internet forum problem), others didn't read or didn't understand the stipulations and premises of my post or didn't detect that it was deliberately formulated in an exaggerated manner to make it clearer and more fun (you know 'fun'? As in not completely serious.)

In any case, I think the entire smell problem is not really as bad as it is made out to be. Obviously, sensitivities vary. Being that it is relatively easy to smoke without leaving a nasty smell (see DaKlug's post), I find a whole house smoking ban without due cause (see initial post) a bit excessive.

What is interesting is the preferred concept of respect to the level of self-effacement rather than tolerance that grows out of respect. To me, that is the concept that brings the best compromise. If I know my partner loves doing something but it somehow bothers me (unless it is really very annoying for me), I will let my partner do it anyway because I love and respect her. Maybe she is nice enough to do it less often or only when it bothers me least but I don't even require that because I know it is what she likes. I might try to find ways how to support it better. The same is true for smoking cigars (two packs of cigarettes are a different story as are five cigars a day but I also made that clear in the initial post). If it is slightly annoying for her but brings me great pleasure, I would expect that she tolerates it. If you have to give up a great pleasure or seriously compromise it (as in freezing your ass off or sitting in the garage like a child in the basement being punished), just so that the other doesn't have a slight ennui , then I find the deal is not very balanced.

So the tolerance out of respect method in these cases seems to work better in theory and practice than the exclusive respect method where the sacrifice on one end is bigger than the gain on the other end. Of course, everybody needs to find the method that works best for them in regards to self-respect and respect of the other and the relationship. If you have found that lucky balance, congratulations. It's just that the number of posts where males either whine or display their martyrdom as respect for their wives made me think about the dynamics of it and post this poll.

On a side note, as far as everybody in Austin being arrogant, that is a large assumption based on a single post from a single person. I think Austinites are not arrogant at all and it is a wonderful place to live even if, like me, you are not from Austin. Now Germans, that is an entirely different thing. These people are arrogant, obnoxious, sexist and misogynistic beyond your wildest imagination. I would suggest you avoid going there. 

Till


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## miana_silvius (Jan 6, 2008)

smokeyscotch said:


> I smoke outside out of respect for my house and those in it.
> On a side note. There are S'sOTL on this forum that along with my wife may not want to be stereotyped as sewers and scrapbookers. My wife as well as other women can shoot, weld, paint, along with many other things, just like we do. She never puts down my smoking cigars. She realizes the R&R they allow me. I refuse to answer the poll due to it either being the MAN of the house or a "Door Mat". You left out the the respect for eachother part. I am not angry, or defensive. It just seems a little sexest is all.:2


What he said...and btw - I'm a cigar-smoking sewer and scrapbooker. I do my hobbies indoors because they do not affect the lives and health of others. I smoke my cigars outside on my patio, regardless of the weather...out of respect to my family and my home.

And btw - when I paint, it's in the garage because of the fumes. Oh, and do you want to see my shotgun collection?

I respect my husband and my kids treat them accordingly.

Plus, it's fun to cuddle up with hubby on the back patio when it's cold and smoke cigars together! 

Stop stereotyping...just because a husband smokes outside does not mean his wife has him by the balls. k?


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## icehog3 (Feb 20, 2005)

tfar said:


> What is interesting is the preferred concept of respect to the level of self-effacement rather than tolerance that grows out of respect. To me, that is the concept that brings the best compromise. If I know my partner loves doing something but it somehow bothers me (*unless it is really very annoying for me*), I will let my partner do it anyway because I love and respect her.


Maybe cigar smoking in the house is *really very annoying *to some of our member's spouses.


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## tfar (Dec 27, 2007)

icehog3 said:


> Maybe cigar smoking in the house is really very annoying to some of our member's spouses.


In that case, as stated, refrain from smoking in the house by all means. Just like I turned off the music immediately and used a different lighter so she could sleep undisturbed.

And again, for all those who are really very dense, the stereotyping was done to make a point, not because I'm a chauvinist pig. Besides that, probably 99% of members here are men and I have not seen a single post by a woman that whines or shows herself as a loving martyr because she has to smoke outside.

Often, when I smoke outside or inside my girlfriend comes to sit with me and we talk and talk and talk. This makes me appreciate the cigar and the girlfriend doubly. As I said in my intro, smoking a cigar for me is about the three C's: cigar, circumstance and company.

Till


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## LasciviousXXX (Oct 12, 2004)

tfar said:


> What is interesting is the preferred concept of respect to the level of self-effacement rather than tolerance that grows out of respect


What I find interesting is the lack of logical reasoning that comes with the above statement and the out and out arrogance that accompanies it. Now I'm not taking a personal "low blow" at you by any means and I'm sure you love your GF very much, however the level of misguided reasoning in your post 4 posts up is interesting.

You seem to like to lead your discussions in a direction by assuming that certain things be accepted as truths. For example your insinuation that those who choose not to smoke inside (outside of the few exception you provide) either have no balls or are bowing down to their spouse's will unnecessarily. I find this type of argument frustrating as it forces the person responding to first clear these misconceptions you've placed at the beginning of your discussion and _then_ state their own thoughts on the original question. It makes for double the work basically.

As I said in my post on the last page, its more about compromise than about self-effacing behavior or the lack of balls. I understand you're trying to have a somewhat risque topic but it comes off as more offensive than controversial.

Again, I'm by no means thin-skinned or taking pot shots at you. Just my own observations of this thread :2


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## tfar (Dec 27, 2007)

LasciviousXXX said:


> What I find interesting is the lack of logical reasoning that comes with the above statement and the out and out arrogance that accompanies it. Now I'm not taking a personal "low blow" at you by any means and I'm sure you love your GF very much, however the level of misguided reasoning in your post 4 posts up is interesting.
> 
> You seem to like to lead your discussions in a direction by assuming that certain things be accepted as truths. For example your insinuation that those who choose not to smoke inside (outside of the few exception you provide) either have no balls or are bowing down to their spouse's will unnecessarily. I find this type of argument frustrating as it forces the person responding to first clear these misconceptions you've placed at the beginning of your discussion and _then_ state their own thoughts on the original question. It makes for double the work basically.
> 
> ...


I don't see the lack of logical reasoning. The perceived arrogance I can see. If that is so, then so be it.

It wasn't an insinuation either but a straight-out statement of my opinion based on my perception. I hate the disclaimer culture and thus did not give a list of possible circumstances that would fit any and all human situations that people can claim as an excuse. So it is simply an opinion. This opinion can be agreed upon and seen as true or it can be seen as a misconception. In the latter case it might trigger even more discussion which is why I chose to make it a bit more provocative.

As in any discussion of a given topic a thesis is made, this thesis is then refuted or proven with a reason and then new thoughts are brought in to open up the discussion or bring a result of more or less final validity to it. It's not double work but the nature of a discussion.

If some bloke on an internet forum says something in a deliberately pointed fashion (and declares it as such from the get go) and people still feel offended, then the shoe must fit somehow.

We agree that compromise in this case is a good thing. How this compromise is achieved whether it works is everyone's own business. The reason I made this post is that I found it peculiar that some have reached a compromise they are evidently not very happy with (or they shouldn't complain). Instead they compensate by saying how much they respect their partner. It is this discrepancy that I am mocking in the manner of Till Eulenspiegel, my namesake. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Till_Eulenspiegel 

If any righteous man felt offended by the pure insinuation his respect for his wife might make them a doormat in the eyes of another (unimportant and powerless) man, should I apologize or feel sorry for them? 

So, please, take the poll and the thread for what it is; a jovially poking entertainment and fun poll. I really didn't think it would ruffle so many proud cock feathers. Had I known this, I might have not posted it. Please, also consider the enormous and extraordinary amount of personal background and justification I gave to explain it, to the point where it is almost not funny anymore, just to make sure no little sensitivity gets hurt. There is not much more one can do. If one has to treat adult cigar smokers with velvet gloves and cannot even be remotely critical in a humorous fashion, how sad is this?

Till


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## LasciviousXXX (Oct 12, 2004)

tfar said:


> I don't see the lack of logical reasoning. The perceived arrogance I can see. If that is so, then so be it.
> 
> It wasn't an insinuation either but a straight-out statement of my opinion based on my perception. I hate the disclaimer culture and thus did not give a list of possible circumstances that would fit any and all human situations that people can claim as an excuse. So it is simply an opinion. This opinion can be agreed upon and seen as true or it can be seen as a misconception. In the latter case it might trigger even more discussion which is why I chose to make it a bit more provocative.
> 
> ...


I believe you're missing the point my friend. You state that if a man is "offended by the insinuation his respect for his wife might make him a doormat in the eyes of another, should I apologize or feel sorry for them" (paraphrasing).... well no. However you shouldn't be surprised by the way in which people will respond to this since it is you yourself that points the finger initially. I understand you're post was joking in nature but you must also understand that it seems to most that there was serious barb behind that thin veil of humor.

You go to great lengths to make your points, bringing in personal information, providing amusing anecdotes and throwing in bits of humor. However, the bottom line is that your opinion in regards to this topic is that people who smoke outside are somehow selling themselves short and lack the testicular fortitude to stand up to their significant others. When you initially go on the attack it shouldn't be a surprise that people might be offended. Not because it ruffled their "proud cock feathers" but because many feel your opinion is incorrect, unrealistic and misguided. So when people point this out to you it should be taken as such instead of trying to turn it around that people are just getting their feelings hurt or have thin-skin.

As far as the lack of logical reasoning goes I find it hard to believe that a person of obvious intelligence (such as yourself) cannot see the overly simplistic way in which the statement I quoted is worded. To say that the common form of respect is akin to that of self-effacement is blatantly broken logic. It would take several leaps of faith and judgement to arrive at that conclusion. That is all I meant by that statement.


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## tfar (Dec 27, 2007)

I hear you. Point well taken.

I just checked the poll results. Almost 75% don't fall in the first category. And almost none of those who did vote for the doormat category raised a stink about it. They just smilingly (I hope) and manly played along.

Testicular fortitude is a wonderful word! Do you think there is a testicular fortitude scale? That would be a great thread, no? "Rate your testicular fortitude". 

Would the scale be an open scale? How should we call it? The Richter scale (incidentally my last name) or perhaps the Rockwell scale (pun intended)? If it were a 1-10 scale I would rate myself probably somewhere between 6 and 7; and that is with a dose of natural male hybris caused by testosterone. 

Till


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## gnukfu (Dec 19, 2007)

:cp Wow! We get another chance to vote for Ralph Nader!


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## floydpink (Feb 15, 2007)

I dunno, usually guys who joke so much about nuts and such are usually lacking in that general area.

Ones who are exceedingly philosophical on top of it with huge vocabularies are usually lacking in the region but exceeding in the monkey spanking region and need to get out more.


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## bbaug14 (Sep 6, 2007)

I smoke outside for several reasons. First, I don't wany my house smelling like smoke. I live in Michigan, and you just aren't airing your house out. There's no way. Two, I don't want stained walls. I don't care what anyone says, you smoke inside, it's going to stain the walls. Three, my finacé doesn't want me smoking in the house. If one and two weren't there, would I smoke in the house? Probably not. It's not that I'm a doormat, it's that I respect the person I share a home with. That's what it comes down to. If there was something that she did that I didn't want her doing in the house, she wouldn't do it because we have respect for each other. Isn't that sweet? Yes, it's sweet. Also, I prefer being outside. It's rough in the winter months, but I have a heater in the garage, so I'm good to go. Yeah, the garage smells like smoke, which does suck, but I can air that out this summer and we don't spend each day in there, so I can live with that, and so can she....


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## PadronMe (Apr 26, 2005)

Worse thread ever!:hn


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## The Dakotan (Jun 4, 2007)

I swore I would stay out of this. This is ridiculous. 

That is all.


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## smokeyscotch (Apr 26, 2007)

LasciviousXXX said:


> I believe you're missing the point my friend. You state that if a man is "offended by the insinuation his respect for his wife might make him a doormat in the eyes of another, should I apologize or feel sorry for them" (paraphrasing).... well no. However you shouldn't be surprised by the way in which people will respond to this since it is you yourself that points the finger initially. I understand you're post was joking in nature but you must also understand that it seems to most that there was serious barb behind that thin veil of humor.
> 
> You go to great lengths to make your points, bringing in personal information, providing amusing anecdotes and throwing in bits of humor. However, the bottom line is that your opinion in regards to this topic is that people who smoke outside are somehow selling themselves short and lack the testicular fortitude to stand up to their significant others. When you initially go on the attack it shouldn't be a surprise that people might be offended. Not because it ruffled their "proud cock feathers" but because many feel your opinion is incorrect, unrealistic and misguided. So when people point this out to you it should be taken as such instead of trying to turn it around that people are just getting their feelings hurt or have thin-skin.
> 
> As far as the lack of logical reasoning goes I find it hard to believe that a person of obvious intelligence (such as yourself) cannot see the overly simplistic way in which the statement I quoted is worded. To say that the common form of respect is akin to that of self-effacement is blatantly broken logic. It would take several leaps of faith and judgement to arrive at that conclusion. That is all I meant by that statement.


:tpd: Perfectly said. Ditto!:tu


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## carni (Jan 18, 2007)

i live in florida so smoking outside is not a big deal.


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## SR Mike (Feb 4, 2008)

How can one judge a person's respect for their wife as not a compromise? 

A lot of money is spent by many guys on cigars and accessories, when the wife does not nag about them smoking in the first place or complain about the amount of money spent, is that not a compromise on her part?

This is a very lopsided argument when you do not truly know anyone's personal situation. When you tell a guy he has no balls because he smokes outside without knowing the true circumstances (even if he does not want to share with the internet world), you are just full of it.


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## ResIpsa (Mar 8, 2006)

tfar said:


> I hear you. Point well taken.
> 
> I just checked the poll results. Almost 75% don't fall in the first category. And almost none of those who did vote for the doormat category raised a stink about it. They just smilingly (I hope) and manly played along.
> 
> ...


I absolutely love guys like you, 'cause they usually mean lots of money for guys like me, :tu:r

FWIW: threads like this usually end up with the OP self destructing and being banned. Just something to keep in mind.


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## Blueface (May 28, 2005)

For a guy seldom short on words, who just ran across this thread for the first time, my response is as follows:

(birds chirping, wind blowing, blank stare)


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## smokeyscotch (Apr 26, 2007)

SR Mike said:


> How can one judge a person's respect for their wife as not a compromise?
> 
> A lot of money is spent by many guys on cigars and accessories, when the wife does not nag about them smoking in the first place or complain about the amount of money spent, is that not a compromise on her part?
> 
> This is a very lopsided argument when you do not truly know anyone's personal situation. When you tell a guy he has no balls because he smokes outside without knowing the true circumstances (even if he does not want to share with the internet world), you are just full of it.


:tpd: There is so much more that could be said in this thread. However, no sense in having a mind changing battle. That never works and get stuff blown up. I know my wife respects me and my cigar hobby. I mean we can't go shopping without going to the B&M. She knows every Thursday is CBid shipping day. She also realizes there are always more beads to buy, storage to upgrade, a better cutter, a better lighter, better cigar line, well you get my drift. Notice I haven't said a thing about actually smoking yet. It thrills my wife to see me - like a cigar, smell my new purchase, or just drool all over the B&M. I would say she repects and compromises quite a bit. She also works her butt off to help pay the mortgage and everything else. Women did go to work a long time ago. I still say the thread seems sexist. But hey, that is my opinion. tfar, as a jungle member I respect your opinions, we disagree on this one, but I respect them. I choose to compromise, and respect you as another cigar lover. 
So, I hope you got the results you needed from this research. 
Guys/Gals, I think we all should chip in and send tfar some Cremosas.:r:ss

Now that was humor.

Now I'm going outside to smoke, balls intact.:tu


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## Blueface (May 28, 2005)

Couldn't help it.

Wife grew up near the famous Vuelta Abajo region of Cuba.
Her grandfather was a Veguero.
Her grandmother was a torcedera.
Her mother was a torcedera.
They smoked cigars all around her since the day she was born.
She loves the smell of Cuban cigars as it reminds her of her family roots.
She completely supports my habit more commonly known to many as hobby.

That said, I smoke outside, invariably, and would never consider to do it indoors.
Many personal reasons of which the most important is my wife and respect for her wish/preference for me not to do it.
I was a cigarette smoker many years ago and smoked indoors. She never nagged me about it. She wanted me to stop for health reasons but would never nag me.
Today, walking into a room where one or many has smoked, I have a very keen sense of smell awareness I did not have then.
I recognize I don't want my home and that of my wife to smell that way. I recognize I should not put someone I truly love through something I choose to do to myself. I should not impose my filthy habit on her and for me not to do so is not indicative of not having any cojones. I actually think it takes much more cojones to actually make such a concession and perhaps that is why we are together over 31 years and I haven't needed Vic's services.


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## tfar (Dec 27, 2007)

smokeyscotch said:


> :tpd: There is so much more that could be said in this thread. However, no sense in having a mind changing battle. That never works and get stuff blown up. I know my wife respects me and my cigar hobby. I mean we can't go shopping without going to the B&M. She knows every Thursday is CBid shipping day. She also realizes there are always more beads to buy, storage to upgrade, a better cutter, a better lighter, better cigar line, well you get my drift. Notice I haven't said a thing about actually smoking yet. It thrills my wife to see me - like a cigar, smell my new purchase, or just drool all over the B&M. I would say she repects and compromises quite a bit. She also works her butt off to help pay the mortgage and everything else. Women did go to work a long time ago. I still say the thread seems sexist. But hey, that is my opinion. tfar, as a jungle member I respect your opinions, we disagree on this one, but I respect them. I choose to compromise, and respect you as another cigar lover.
> So, I hope you got the results you needed from this research.
> Guys/Gals, I think we all should chip in and send tfar some Cremosas.:r:ss
> 
> ...


Right on, no one will make me change my mind about my definition of respect and tolerance (that other important word no one else has even used in this thread), and I am not going to change anyone's mind, either. Nor will I be the judge of whether you got balls or not; I am not that preposterous.

I have explained my position, the reasoning behind it and the reason for this thread well enough that anyone can understand it. No one needs to agree with it and I don't mind if someone voices disagreement; that's what discussions are for, no?

On a sociological and personal as well as on a cigar level it was an interesting discussion and poll and thus might not be the worst thread ever but even have some merit, after all it got a great number of views and responses where people really thought about what they were writing instead of just chiming in with "Man, awesome Padrons. I love those, too."

As for intelligence or huge vocabulary being related to spanking the monkey that is an unheard to theory and requires further examination. How about we make a statistical poll where we all take the same IQ-test with a heavy weighting on language skills and then post the monkey spanking rate with it? Wait, that would really have nothing to do with cigars unless if we use a test group of non-cigar smokers to see if vocabulary and monkey spanking are after all related to cigar smoking. Freud would have a ball (no pun intended).

Cheers everyone,

Till


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## CigarMonkel (Jan 7, 2008)

*deleted after rereading what was written and realizing i have dyslexia.*


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## floydpink (Feb 15, 2007)

tfar, forgive me for asking, but is there any chance you live in is a "he" ??

Not that there's anything wrong with that....

I'm feeling a little philosphical for some reason.


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## DriftyGypsy (May 24, 2006)

After reading through these posts I am wondering if you had discussed with your girlfriend the building of your smoking room, the use that it would be put to and how often, prior to putting the time and effort into it.


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## tfar (Dec 27, 2007)

Did you read my previous posts? Why are you asking? I said "girlfriend" many times. Is there now a correlation between homosexuality and cigars or where you smoke them? Stop throwing me balls for new outrageous polls: I smoke outside, therefore I am gay. Now that would be over the top. Even I would take offense. 

It's a she and a very pretty and smart one at that. Brunette French girl with close to perfect measures, a Ph.D. pending and a very stubborn attitude. Arguing with her is ten times harder than this light banter.

Or do you mean, seriously now, that if it were a man, because it is a man he would not have any qualms about the cigar smoke inside the house? In that case should we attribute that to a keener feminine olfactory sense (proven) or to a sociologically different attitude to cigars and a different form of compromising between men and women? This might actually go to the bottom of the problem but could still be conceived as sexist (see Larry Summer's mathematic remarks - Harvard).

Gents, I rest my case, though. As I said, it's been interesting and beneficial IMHO but all has been said and there are more interesting threads on this great forum than this one which I had the audacity to start. I don't think it's leading anywhere from here. And we all have other things to do than worry about someone else's perception of our cojones or our partnership philosophies, since we are all very sure about those.

Till


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## replicant_argent (May 13, 2006)

Blueface said:


> For a guy seldom short on words, who just ran across this thread for the first time, my response is as follows:
> 
> (birds chirping, wind blowing, blank stare)


:tpd: 
Having a full and richly diverse vocabulary and the means to assemble it into some kind of argument, debate, or thought does not necessarily equate the ability to tactfully refrain from its use.

I could have sworn I would "hear trolleys" after wading through this thread. I would remark on the poll itself, but I think it is beneath what my convictions and common sense will allow.


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## bazookajoe (Nov 2, 2006)

tfar said:


> Some of you obviously have thin skin (a common internet forum problem), others didn't read or didn't understand the stipulations and premises of my post or didn't detect that it was deliberately formulated in an exaggerated manner to make it clearer and more fun (you know 'fun'? As in not completely serious.)...





tfar said:


> And again, for all those who are really very dense, the stereotyping was done to make a point, not because I'm a chauvinist pig...


:BS

Your opinion of those who don't agree with you?


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## gnukfu (Dec 19, 2007)

tfar said:


> ......Brunette French girl with close to perfect measures......


Hmmmm what are close to perfect measures? That could be quite a debate. :ss

Amazing how shallow I am that after all this discussion I pick that phrase to comment on.:tu


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## tfar (Dec 27, 2007)

DriftyGypsy said:


> After reading through these posts I am wondering if you had discussed with your girlfriend the building of your smoking room, the use that it would be put to and how often, prior to putting the time and effort into it.


Since this is a question that has indeed not been discussed and is very well justified, let me answer it.

I just asked her whether we had discussed it because I didn't really remember. She says "No, it was your house and you just said you wanted a smoking room in there. I really didn't care. All that disturbs me is the clutter."

In terms of time and effort she said "That was really nothing compared to turning the garage into a home theatre and all the time you spent researching re-modeling it."

I know that, when it is nice and orderly, she actually likes the room because it is one of the few areas in the house that is remotely cozy. Otherwise there are almost no furniture and the furniture that are there are steel, glass, leather but no upholstery and no curtains (like the smoking room incidentally). There are also almost no knick-knicks just a ton of art. It is also so to say our living room. Otherwise if we have guests we sit around the dinner table or on the floor. The ordinary living room with couches, cabinets low tables and so on does not exist chez nous. So that is a sacrifice many would not want to make.

She says, you can do what you want, as long as it doesn't invade my room. She has her own bathroom and bedroom (she got the master suite). But still, I do have some of my art in there. She doesn't really mind though because it is stuff we chose together and most of the art in her room is actually hers. The only thing she does complain a little about is that there is a 4x8ft painting that encroaches on her bed. On the other hand she is not too unhappy with it because it is one of the best pieces and does fit nicely with the rest of her things. We are both art historians and both collect.

What I do get grieve about from her (and righteously so), is the disorder I spread. I have gotten a bit better but I still have a long way to go.

I can only encourage everyone to think about converting one small room to a multi-use smoking room. Perhaps a den or office or the guest bedroom. That is if you do have the room to do so, of course. If we had children I would have to smoke in my office and turn the smoking room into a child's room. So I really know that it is a great luxury and am grateful for it. But it isn't hard to do. You need a fan, perhaps an air purifier and a couple of other odor fighters and you are good to go. It doesn't need to be the full-blown ventilation and seal thing that some of you built, even if this is optimal and desirable.

I use the room for smoking maybe once or twice a week. I actually prefer smoking on the porch for taste reasons if it's not too cold. I try to confine my indoor smoking to that room simply because it is easier to keep one room in good shape than the entire house. However, if I do need to leave the room for a minute or two I often take the cigar or pipe with me to other parts of the house. Since I smoke so little, that has never done any harm. We have been here more than four years and I can assure you that there is no nicotine in the corners and no traces behind the artwork.

Till


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## ResIpsa (Mar 8, 2006)

tfar said:


> It's a she and a very pretty and smart one at that. Brunette *French girl* with close to perfect measures, a Ph.D. pending and a very stubborn attitude. Arguing with her is ten times harder than this light banter.
> 
> Or do you mean, seriously now, that if it were a man, because it is a man he would not have any qualms about the cigar smoke inside the house? In that case should we attribute that to a keener feminine olfactory sense (proven) or to a sociologically different attitude to cigars and a different form of compromising between men and women? This might actually go to the bottom of the problem but could still be conceived as sexist (see Larry Summer's mathematic remarks - Harvard).
> 
> ...


eye em knot az smarte az ewe end yur gyrl iz, but sence were doin' soh muche funnin' and kydding arund here, I'm sorre, but I'me jist besyde myself and kan't hep frum askin'.........sense yu lyke sterotipes soh muche, iz it trew thatz dem frenchies wymen stynk real bade, have pore higene, end dunt shaave there armes ore legges??? Cuz thatz whut eye herd abowt dem.


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## tfar (Dec 27, 2007)

She just asked me to say the following. She doesn't have a problem with pipe or cigar smoking at all. What she does have a problem with is that I spend too much time on stupid forums arguing stupid stuff while she would need me to discuss more pressing questions like the new syllabus she is supposed to develop on contemporary art. What does this mean? I gotta go and take care of real problems.

Close to perfect measures would be 35-24-35 on a petite frame of 162cm and perhaps at the most 110 lbs. You are right, what a wonderful subject for debate.

Vic (ResIpsa), I take it you are a lawyer possibly working on divorces. We intend to get married in the foreseeable future and will use the services of a lawyer to determine most determinable eventualities in case of a divorce(i.e. pre-nup, separation of goods, child care, alimony etc.). We both like it this way. When things are clear from the outset there is already that much less to argue about. However, having made it as far as we have through some really hard times for both of us, we have gotten pretty good at the respect and tolerance thing so I am of good hope.

Thanks for the back-handed compliments on language skills. As a non-native speaker that means a lot to me.

Till


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## tfar (Dec 27, 2007)

ResIpsa said:


> eye em knot az smarte az ewe end yur gyrl iz, but sence were doin' soh muche funnin' and kydding arund here, I'm sorre, but I'me jist besyde myself and kan't hep frum askin'.........sense yu lyke sterotipes soh muche, iz it trew thatz dem frenchies wymen stynk real bade, have pore higene, end dunt shaave there armes ore legges??? Cuz thatz whut eye herd abowt dem.


You should try out for yourself, not with mine, though.

I once read a statistic of French men only owning three pairs of underwear on average. And I once met a Japanese girl who said she found the French stink while in the metro (tube). It is known that Asians have lower body odor and the Parisian metro isn't the best-smelling place in the world. So I can see where the comment comes from.

All French women I have been with are the opposite of what you described but I do not want to commit any indiscretions, you'll understand.

Till


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## ResIpsa (Mar 8, 2006)

Actually Till, my post was not intended as a put down of your language skills, but was more aimed at the attitude portrayed here.....



tfar said:


> .....a Ph.D. pending and a very stubborn attitude. Arguing with her is ten times harder than this light banter.


 which some may take as a comment on the intelligence level of those posting in this thread.

Sometimes I'm a little obtuse for my own good. No offense meant, and apology extended.


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## Blueface (May 28, 2005)

tfar said:


> I can only encourage everyone to think about converting one small room to a multi-use smoking room. Perhaps a den or office or the guest bedroom. That is if you do have the room to do so, of course.
> 
> Till


OK.
I can see folks up north having a need but the decision should still be based on mutual agreement with other significant, not based on ones need/opinion without care for the other.
Here is a better idea.
Move to Florida and you will never want to go to a smoking room.


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## miana_silvius (Jan 6, 2008)

Hey! I grew up in Boca Raton! (Is this a highjack???)

But really...I saw this picture and thought - hey! That looks like where I grew up! lol.

What are the odds? What area of Boca are you in? You can pm if you want.



Blueface said:


> OK.
> I can see folks up north having a need but the decision should still be based on mutual agreement with other significant, not based on ones need/opinion without care for the other.
> Here is a better idea.
> Move to Florida and you will never want to go to a smoking room.


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## SR Mike (Feb 4, 2008)

tfar said:


> Right on, no one will make me change my mind about my definition of respect and tolerance (that other important word no one else has even used in this thread), and I am not going to change anyone's mind, either.


 What was the point of starting this thread? We all have our own understanding of respect, tolerance, and compromise, why start a fire?



> Nor will I be the judge of whether you got balls or not; I am not that preposterous.


Yet this is what you are doing. You are telling some they are a doormat because they smoke outside because of their significant other, even when they explain that it is not because their wife/girlfriend told them to. You started the balls issue when you posted this:



> Again, house preservation on your own will has nothing to do with the doormat vs. balls question.


Your stance and reasoning has changed in this thread, you started by playing devil's advocate to now agreeing with reasons for not smoking indoors for what reasons you deem appropriate. Since I have been looking back on your previous posts, I reread this:


> Tim, of course, I made it explicitly and deliberately sexist and stereotyped in order to make a point.


At this point, I tend to look at my posting as though I am feeding a troll. My point has been made also, as such I will step back and refrain from posting on this thread. I am happy with my non-French wife and have no issue with refraining from smoking indoors, my decision not hers.


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## SmokeyJoe (Oct 3, 2006)

smokeyscotch said:


> I smoke outside out of respect for my house and those in it. I smoked on the recliner today only because we were ventilating the whole house. I don't want the house smelling like stogies any more than she does. If it is really cold out, I do place a fan at the door and close myself off to enjoy a cigar.
> On a side note. There are S'sOTL on this forum that along with my wife may not want to be stereotyped as sewers and scrapbookers. My wife as well as other women can shoot, weld, paint, along with many other things, just like we do. She never puts down my smoking cigars. She realizes the R&R they allow me. I refuse to answer the poll due to it either being the MAN of the house or a "Door Mat". You left out the the respect for eachother part. I am not angry, or defensive. It just seems a little sexest is all.:2


:tpd: Yeppers... me too. None of the options above fit my relationship. :ss


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## mustang1 (Oct 11, 2007)

I smoke in my home where and when it pleases me. My GF of thirteen (13) yrs is very tolerant of it. While I know she doesn't always like the smell of it she understands it's relaxing for me. 

I don't chase women. (Except for her, I chase her quite often)

I don't sit in bars all the time. (On occasion I will hit the bars with friends, besides smoking in bars is outlawed in Ohio)

I don't use drugs. 

I'm self-employed with a finacially sound future, foreseeable future anyway. 
All things considered I'm an Fing catch man!:r

That said, I do see many posts here from botl stating that "wifey" has strictly forbade them to burn inside "their" home. So I think it is a legit discussion. 

Also I can see how tfar could make the assumption that many gorillas choosing to smoke out of doors out of respect for their partners may be because they do not wish to endure another tirade or brow beating, or worse...sex withheld as punishment. In fact I have seen posts here stating this explicitly. 

In my short time here I have often thought about a post like this. There was no way I could see to open it with out upsetting some people so I erred on the side of caution. Hats off to you tfar I for one think you handled the onslaught quite well. You are a well spoken gorilla. 

No offense to the botl that do smoke outside, hell I enjoy the occasional smoke on the porch or backyard when the weather is right. 

I don't have children, when I do my situation will change. For me that will probably mean smoking in a designated room (above ground and not in the garage) in the house. :2


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## mikeyj23 (Feb 25, 2007)

mustang1 said:


> I smoke in my home where and when it pleases me. My GF of thirteen (13) yrs is very tolerant of it. While I know she doesn't always like the smell of it she understands it's relaxing for me.
> 
> I don't chase women. (Except for her, I chase her quite often)


She sounds like a very nice young lady. Thirteen is pretty young to have that sort of respect and tolerance  J/K


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## smitty (Sep 19, 2006)

tfar said:


> She says, you can do what you want, as long as it doesn't invade my room. She has her own bathroom and bedroom (she got the master suite).


Sounds like you were playing the role of doormat in that one huh?

Goes to show you that its always about give and take along with respect.

Personally though, I don't like the smell of cigar smoke in the house.


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## mustang1 (Oct 11, 2007)

mikeyj23 said:


> She sounds like a very nice young lady. Thirteen is pretty young to have that sort of respect and tolerance  J/K


Ouch..please try to keep em' above the waist. She is younger than me, one (1) year depending on the month.


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## ja3480 (Nov 21, 2007)

I smoke outside... I have a beautiful 4 mth old daughter. No clouding the air around her inside!!


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## ttours (Jan 28, 2007)

Little bit afraid of those that did not select option #2. That and guys smoking cigars at 14 and having a tolerant GF of 13. My wife of 15 is still not both feet on board!!!:tu

tt:cb


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## Kiwi Michelle (Aug 2, 2006)

mustang1 said:


> Ouch..please try to keep em' above the waist. She is younger than me, one (1) year depending on the month.


Wow i had to read your original post twice - i thought you had a 13 yr old girlfriend!!!

BTW - i'm a doormat............Won't smoke inside coz of kids. We are looking at a HRV system that is suppose to keep your house fresh as a daisy so might be able to sneak one in!


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## Poriggity (Dec 8, 2005)

Honestly, I smoke outside, because the smell bothers my wife. I do it because I respect her feelings. If that makes me a doormat, then so be it, but I'd rather sleep in my own bed, next to my wife, than be stuck in a hotel somewhere because I disrespected my wife. Oh, btw, when I do have a smoke, I shower, change clothes, and brush my teeth before she gets home. Its all because I'm whipped 

Scott


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## mustang1 (Oct 11, 2007)

ttours said:


> Little bit afraid of those that did not select option #2. That and guys smoking cigars at 14 and having a tolerant GF of 13. My wife of 15 is still not both feet on board!!!:tu
> 
> tt:cb


Wow, you all are having some fun with me. For the record: Me 30 years old, the GF: 29 years old. :ss


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## gnukfu (Dec 19, 2007)

Blueface said:


> OK.
> I can see folks up north having a need but the decision should still be based on mutual agreement with other significant, not based on ones need/opinion without care for the other.
> Here is a better idea.
> Move to Florida and you will never want to go to a smoking room.


That is so wrong as I look at the snow in my yard and see that an ice storm is coming tomorrow. I got bombed by Volt today so I need a place to stay for a while. I'll be there tomorrow. :ss Man that looks nice!


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## dwhitacre (Jan 2, 2008)

I smoke outside so I don't stink up my house or contaminate my wee little baby!!!

My wife has very little to do with my smoking outside.

I didn't post on the poll because I felt that I don't fit the categories.


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## tfar (Dec 27, 2007)

smitty said:


> Sounds like you were playing the role of doormat in that one huh?
> 
> Goes to show you that its always about give and take along with respect.
> 
> Personally though, I don't like the smell of cigar smoke in the house.


Smitty, give and take is exactly right in a good balance. The master suite is warmer than the rest of the house (we are in Texas) for air ducting reasons. She likes it warmer. She also doesn't mind having an office desk in her bedroom. I have a ton of equipment and an impossible filing system (read heaps of paper). So I need a separate office and bedroom which I got. She has more cloths and the master closet is bigger. It was a very well thought out compromise and we both feel good about it. None of us ever complained that we would like the reversed situation.

SrMike has said that I made those who smoke outside because of their own will look like doormats, too, or that there is no category for those people. If you do follow the semantics of the poll and my statements there is no such interpretation possible for the first case. Those who smoke outside for any reason besides avoiding a nagging wife (and believe me I have done stuff a million times to avoid her nagging) just don't fall into the scope. Some have correctly noticed that and consequently didn't vote.

I also don't judge because I don't press the vote button for anyone. I left no fourth choice e.g. "I smoke outside because that's what I like" because that's not what it was about. Sorry, if you felt left out.

Finally, I am glad that some, like mustang1, understand the sense and tone of this thread. Thanks, bro.

After all, this does get tiring for everyone. I'd much prefer a big huffing and puffing group hug between brotherly united doormats and hardwood floors. Perhaps we should start a very neutral poll asking do you smoke inside or outside and then give the reasons. Seriously. It might bring more answers than my admittedly incendiary poll.

Till

P.S.: My hat is off to the mods who didn't close this earlier and to those members who kept it civil even though they were in disagreement. I'll smoke a Special T in your honor. :cb


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## tfar (Dec 27, 2007)

OT:

Blueface, that is beautiful. Is that your place? Looks great. I have a question. So this steel pavillion structure over the pool is that glassed in? It looks like there is a reflection of glass on the left. It would make sense if it was an enclosure of some sort to shelter from wind and leaves getting into the pool. Or, if it is not glass, do you out a trap or panels on that structure? Otherwise, I don't get the sense of it except maybe a decorational purpose.

Till


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## DriftyGypsy (May 24, 2006)

mustang1 said:


> I smoke in my home where and when it pleases me. My GF of thirteen (13) yrs is very tolerant of it. While I know she doesn't always like the smell of it she understands it's relaxing for me.
> 
> I don't chase women. (Except for her, I chase her quite often)
> 
> ...


Wow aren't you Mister Macho Caveman... do you keep her barefoot and in the kitchen as well... yeppers no woman has your balls on a plate... no room for compromise... BTW- does your Girl friend of 13 years _(length of time not age), _live with you. The only reason I ask is because you said *my* home singular. If indeed it is your solely your home and not hers as well, do you go to her house, do you smoke in her house.


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## smokeyscotch (Apr 26, 2007)

tfar said:


> OT:
> 
> Blueface, that is beautiful. Is that your place? Looks great. I have a question. So this steel pavillion structure over the pool is that glassed in? It looks like there is a reflection of glass on the left. It would make sense if it was an enclosure of some sort to shelter from wind and leaves getting into the pool. Or, if it is not glass, do you out a trap or panels on that structure? Otherwise, I don't get the sense of it except maybe a decorational purpose.
> 
> Till


Good Lord , Till. Now you are questioning a man's beautiful home design. I realize as an Art Historian, you probably are a little picky by nature (I'm a Fine Arts Grad, I know your type). However, I think if you keep on, you may knock on some doors you don't want opened.:2


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## duhman (Dec 3, 2007)

Hey Blueface, are there gators in those canals? Mmmmmm, gators.:dr


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## floydpink (Feb 15, 2007)

Sounds like he's never been to Florida, where screen pool enclosures are the norm unless you like cleaning out bugs once a day.

I can just see tfar landing in Miami now and heading to South Beach, "These scantily clad latin ladies, are they ornaments or merely underdressed subservient doormats!!? and those orange round things so eleqently displayed from the trees, are they an early Christmas ornament?"

For a guy who joined 2 months ago, this art historian sure draws a lot of attention, none for what we are here for; cigars.


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## Blueface (May 28, 2005)

tfar said:


> OT:
> 
> Blueface, that is beautiful. Is that your place? Looks great. I have a question. So this steel pavillion structure over the pool is that glassed in? It looks like there is a reflection of glass on the left. It would make sense if it was an enclosure of some sort to shelter from wind and leaves getting into the pool. Or, if it is not glass, do you out a trap or panels on that structure? Otherwise, I don't get the sense of it except maybe a decorational purpose.
> 
> Till





duhman said:


> Hey Blueface, are there gators in those canals? Mmmmmm, gators.:dr


It is both my home and for now, my office, right there where the picture was taken from, thanks to wireless and a business laptop, coupled with a job that can be done literally from anywhere I have internet access.

It is very common in Florida, known as Screen Enclosure or Lanai or "Bird Cage" to some.
It does not have glass as otherwise would bake us. The panels have screen material just as that found on your screen panels for windows for the home.
Keeps out mosquitos and bugs while still letting in natural fresh air.

As far as gators, yup. They are out there. Hear them when the mating urge hits. See one once in a while. See them more times when neighbors get stupid and decide to feed them or they find an occasional small dog.


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## muziq (Mar 14, 2005)

smokeyscotch said:


> Good Lord , Till. Now you are questioning a man's beautiful home design. I realize as an Art Historian, you probably are a little picky by nature (I'm a Fine Arts Grad, I know your type). However, I think if you keep on, you may knock on some doors you don't want opened.:2


Till is certainly picky :r, but I *think* he was simply asking a question, and not questioning Carlos. No one in his/her right mind would question Carlos :fu :r

EDIT: for the record, I'm a doormatt and damned proud of it :tu


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## icehog3 (Feb 20, 2005)

duhman said:


> Hey Blueface, are there gators in those canals? Mmmmmm, gators.:dr


Yes, and there's gold in them thar hills... :r


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## muziq (Mar 14, 2005)

icehog3 said:


> Yes, and there's gold in them thar hills... :r


I thought it was Texas Tea! Crap, time to sell the retirement property...


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## Blueface (May 28, 2005)

icehog3 said:


> Yes, and there's gold in them thar hills... :r


Tom,
Have you noticed that I am finding any thread I can to post a reminder photo for you?:r:r:r
Maybe I should update the other thread "for posterity" with a daily shot of the weather.
Wouldn't need to ever change the photo.:r


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## Blueface (May 28, 2005)

muziq said:


> Till is certainly picky :r, but I *think* he was simply asking a question, and not questioning Carlos. No one in his/her right mind would question Carlos :fu :r
> 
> EDIT: for the record, I'm a doormatt and damned proud of it :tu


:r
Valid question for anyone not ever having seen our "bird cages" in Florida.
We would never survive outdoors in the evening without one as our mosquitoes appear more like small planes landing as they head for you.
I just wanted him to see that some of us have no need whatsoever for a smoking room and are perfectly fine with the wife kicking us outside.:r


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## icehog3 (Feb 20, 2005)

Blueface said:


> Tom,
> Have you noticed that I am finding any thread I can to post a reminder photo for you?:r:r:r
> Maybe I should update the other thread "for posterity" with a daily shot of the weather.
> Wouldn't need to ever change the photo.:r


I know Brother Carlos...but I don't need any convincing....just need the age so I can collect the pension, and I am Florida bound!


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## King James (Dec 18, 2005)

icehog3 said:


> I know Brother Carlos...but I don't need any convincing....just need the age so I can collect the pension, and I am Florida bound!


I'll get you one of those borat one-piece swim suits for a retirement gift.... then you can walk the beaches in style


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## floydpink (Feb 15, 2007)

hopefully tfar knows I am not serious, and just kidding with him.

Nice smoking room Carlos. Mine isn't quite as nice, although I am about ready to put the pool in now that my daughter is learning to swim.

I had a friend who had a kid drown in the pool and have been paranoid since. That is another sad and all too common thing in Florida.

For now, it's the YMCA down the road and the neighbor's pool. You have a real Florida paradise scene going on.

I do have a jacuzzi with pop up speakers and LED lighting that is really fun to sit in at night and have a cigar and look at the stars.


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## icehog3 (Feb 20, 2005)

King James said:


> I'll get you one of those borat one-piece swim suits for a retirement gift.... then you can walk the beaches in style


With you on my arm, in your string bikini, how could life get any better.


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## replicant_argent (May 13, 2006)

King James said:


> I'll get you one of those borat one-piece swim suits for a retirement gift.... then you can walk the beaches in style


wasn't there a new ahem.......

photoshop thread started ??


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## Blueface (May 28, 2005)

King James said:


> I'll get you one of those borat one-piece swim suits for a retirement gift.... then you can walk the beaches in style


Photoshop guys.
PLEASE add Tom.


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## icehog3 (Feb 20, 2005)

Blueface said:


> Photoshop guys.
> PLEASE add Tom.


Bite me! :r


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## Blueface (May 28, 2005)

floydpink said:


> hopefully tfar knows I am not serious, and just kidding with him.
> 
> Nice smoking room Carlos. Mine isn't quite as nice, although I am about ready to put the pool in now that my daughter is learning to swim.
> 
> ...


Very nice!!!
Hey, FLORIDA!!!
I have always wanted an outdoor Jacuzzi like that but I have limited space.
Don't have the yard like that. Pool enclosure and patio is my yard.
Beyond my screen enclosure is "common grounds".
Freaking HOA all over down here but I guess helps maintain properties.


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## floydpink (Feb 15, 2007)

The jaccuzzi is great and really soothes away the day's stress and I use it at least 3 times a week.

My chiropractor was kind enough to write me a prescription for it, so it was a tax deduction.


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## DriftyGypsy (May 24, 2006)

icehog3 said:


> Bite me! :r


http://www.clubstogie.com/vb/showpost.php?p=1480398&postcount=24


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## mustang1 (Oct 11, 2007)

DriftyGypsy said:


> Wow aren't you Mister Macho Caveman... do you keep her barefoot and in the kitchen as well... yeppers no woman has your balls on a plate... no room for compromise... BTW- does your Girl friend of 13 years _(length of time not age), _live with you. The only reason I ask is because you said *my* home singular. If indeed it is your solely your home and not hers as well, do you go to her house, do you smoke in her house.


I believe this post was about a cohabitave situation. It would make little sense for me to comment if I didn't live with my GF. We have been together for the last 13 yrs, living together for the last 7 yrs, living in *our *own home for the last 5 yrs.

I did state it was my home because it is, it's hers too. She often calls it *her* home. We often say it's *our* home aswell. Please forgive this minor indiscretion.

Also, really don't see how you get "Mister Macho Caveman" out of my original reply. I actually listed the unmacho attributes about me.

I don't tell her what she can or can't do in *hers/our* home, so it would only make sense that she doesn't make those kind of demands of me.

She will tell anyone that I have the utmost respect for her, respect that I don't have to exemplify by enjoying a cigar outside the comfort of my own home. Like I stated earlier nothing against those that do, my situation is different is all.

Oh and whenever she is barefoot it is by her choice, I actually don't like barefeet in the kitchen, it can be unsafe, and not very cleanly. And yes she often is in the kitchen, she loves to cook. All the better IMHO.:ss


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## Blueface (May 28, 2005)

HA!!!
Found it.:r


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## muziq (Mar 14, 2005)

DriftyGypsy said:


> http://www.clubstogie.com/vb/showpost.php?p=1480398&postcount=24


Made my Tuesday, Drifty...:tu


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## Blueface (May 28, 2005)

DriftyGypsy said:


> http://www.clubstogie.com/vb/showpost.php?p=1480398&postcount=24


Photobucket for you.
:r


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## DriftyGypsy (May 24, 2006)

mustang1 said:


> I believe this post was about a cohabitave situation. It would make little sense for me to comment if I didn't live with my GF. We have been together for the last 13 yrs, living together for the last 7 yrs, living in *our *own home for the last 5 yrs.
> 
> I did state it was my home because it is, it's hers too. She often calls it *her* home. We often say it's *our* home aswell. Please forgive this minor indiscretion.
> 
> ...


Perhaps it was the perceived attitude of your post, somethings that struck me:


mustang1 said:


> I smoke in my home where and when it pleases me.


*
Now to be hosest you did add: *


mustang1 said:


> My GF of thirteen (13) yrs is very tolerant of it. While I know she doesn't always like the smell of it she understands it's relaxing for me.


But it was the first sentence that hit me wrong. Then there was this 


mustang1 said:


> I don't chase women. (Except for her, I chase her quite often)
> 
> I don't sit in bars all the time. (On occasion I will hit the bars with friends, besides smoking in bars is outlawed in Ohio)
> 
> ...


Even with the smilies after the first sentence this comes off as a little arrogant.



mustang1 said:


> That said, I do see many posts here from botl stating that "wifey" has strictly forbade them to burn inside "their" home. So I think it is a legit discussion.
> 
> Also I can see how tfar could make the assumption that many gorillas choosing to smoke out of doors out of respect for their partners may be because they do not wish to endure another tirade or brow beating, or worse...sex withheld as punishment. In fact I have seen posts here stating this explicitly.
> 
> In my short time here I have often thought about a post like this. There was no way I could see to open it with out upsetting some people so I erred on the side of caution.


You know, I have seen many of the same posts, however I believed they were in jest. Yes, there are a lot of BOTL's who are not ALLOWED to smoke in the house, many of them complain about it. Heck, I bitch because I cannot smoke in my office. But, as you stated you couldn't see a way to open the discussion without upsetting some people.



mustang1 said:


> Hats off to you tfar I for one think you handled the onslaught quite well. You are a well spoken gorilla.


You may feel he is a well spoken gorilla, but I think he is very arrogant. In your opinion there should be a place for a post like this, _*and perhaps you are correct.*_ But, such a post should not be done in such a way as it challenges a lot of peoples by calling them names. I guess that is why you didn't post originally.

Oh and as for me; I live alone, I smoke in my apartment except when my daughter is there. I have a girlfriend of three years, I smoke in her house and her car with her permission and encouragement, she of course also will smoke on occasion. I am lucky in that respect. Prior to her, I had a girlfriend who did not allow me to smoke in her house. No problem there, it was her house. Prior to that was the nag who constantly tried to get me to quit... she didn't last long.


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## Wolfgang8810 (Jan 17, 2008)

*Why dont we just close this thread? Nothing is being said that hasnt been said before in the 10 pages. I agree its arrogant and sexist but come on how many more times does a person need to type "reaspect" or "comprimise". Just getting my thoughts out there.*


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## DriftyGypsy (May 24, 2006)

Wolfgang8810 said:


> *Why dont we just close this thread? Nothing is being said that hasnt been said before in the 10 pages. I agree its arrogant and sexist but come on how many more times does a person need to type "reaspect" or "comprimise". Just getting my thoughts out there.*


Come on we ain't done...


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## icehog3 (Feb 20, 2005)

floydpink said:


> The jaccuzzi is great and really soothes away the day's stress and I use it at least 3 times a week.
> 
> My chiropractor was kind enough to write me a prescription for it, so it was a tax deduction.


When I move to Florida I need your doctor's office address. 



DriftyGypsy said:


> http://www.clubstogie.com/vb/showpost.php?p=1480398&postcount=24


You bite me too!



Blueface said:


> HA!!!
> Found it.:r


I would wear that suit and Brad's brimmed beanie if it would score me those two ladies. :tu


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## floydpink (Feb 15, 2007)

Hey Carlos,

Are you without power? I just saw about 3 million are without in South Florida on the news and it's uncertain when it will come back.

It's going out all around me, but I am in a pocket with power. I am a power ranger doormat and going outside to have a cigar because my wife is coming home.

BTW, that girl under Tom's right arm is extremely attractive.


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## Mrs.Smokinpoke (Sep 28, 2007)

PadronMe said:


> Worse thread ever!:hn


:tpd: I agree 100%, but I'm just a woman so what do I know. I better get back to my sewing.


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## icehog3 (Feb 20, 2005)

floydpink said:


> Hey Carlos,
> 
> Are you without power? I just saw about 3 million are without in South Florida on the news and it's uncertain when it will come back.
> 
> BTW, that girl under Tom's right arm is extremely attractive.


If he is, you might be waiting a while for a reply.  :r

I like her too....would be worth donning the suit. :r


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## Blueface (May 28, 2005)

floydpink said:


> Hey Carlos,
> 
> Are you without power? I just saw about 3 million are without in South Florida on the news and it's uncertain when it will come back.
> 
> ...


Lost it for a very brief moment.
All is fine here in Boca.
Freaked out as laptop was connected to power supply but no ill effects present.


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## Blueface (May 28, 2005)

Wolfgang8810 said:


> *Why dont we just close this thread? Nothing is being said that hasnt been said before in the 10 pages. I agree its arrogant and sexist but come on how many more times does a person need to type "reaspect" or "comprimise". Just getting my thoughts out there.*


Say it isn't so!!!
Where would we carry on all the Tom bashing?:r


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## kalvinchris (Jan 28, 2008)

I live a 6 unit apartment building and half the tenants smoke cigarettes. Others smoke a green substance illegal in the state of Oklahoma. I smoke cigars, indoors and out on the balcony. I enjoy smoking outside with a book. But I also like smoking inside and watching movies on my projector. I can go to the local B&M and do that but they are likely watching sports. While sports can be cool, there is just no chance I'm going to sit at a B&M, smoke a cigar, and watch the kind of movies I want to see. 

My girlfriend moved in about a year ago and we came to a compromise that I can smoke indoors 3 days a week. She isn't crazy about my cigar smoking, but she knows it's something I really enjoy. About once a month she will even sit down and have a cigar with me. It's all about compromise


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## mustang1 (Oct 11, 2007)

DriftyGypsy said:


> You may feel he is a well spoken gorilla, but I think he is very arrogant. In your opinion there should be a place for a post like this, _*and perhaps you are correct.*_ But, such a post should not be done in such a way as it challenges a lot of peoples by calling them names. I guess that is why you didn't post originally.
> 
> .


I did not intend to come off as arrogant, I appologize if I offended anyone.

I was commending tfar for dealing with the angry replies in, for the most part a civilized logical fashion. He could have run and hid after the first angry gorilla replied, but he stayed and held his ground.

I would like to make something clear, I do not agree completely with the way he presented his post, it was inflammatory but he did state that was his intention. In that regard it would be considered a success.

Hope this clears it up, I don't want beef with anyone (driftygypsy) in the jungle. With that I believe I am done here.


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## Blueface (May 28, 2005)

Since we are equal opportunity offenders, lets turn it on Drifty, compliments of Hollywood's talent.:r

*"I NEED RUM!!"*







[/QUOTE]


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## smokinpoke (Apr 8, 2006)

I don't smoke inside because as much as I like cigars I don't want my house smelling like stale cigar smoke.


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## tfar (Dec 27, 2007)

Blueface said:


> :r
> Valid question for anyone not ever having seen our "bird cages" in Florida.
> We would never survive outdoors in the evening without one as our mosquitoes appear more like small planes landing as they head for you.
> I just wanted him to see that some of us have no need whatsoever for a smoking room and are perfectly fine with the wife kicking us outside.:r


Carlos, thanks for not taking my question the wrong way. It was indeed just an information question and you answered that perfectly well. I have been to Miami before (for the art fairs, what do you think?) and driving along the waterways I have never seen those cages. The screen material is certainly the best solution but I didn't guess it was there because while the photo is very good there is not a hint of screen visible. Tastewise I actually like it. It reminds me of those 18th and 19th century pavilions in parks. They are called in German "Pleasure Pavilions". This seems quite a suitable name.

With a set-up like that my wife would have to beg me to smoke inside.:r

Till


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## BengalMan (Aug 13, 2007)

She can't really say anything when I work for a cigar company.


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## Blueface (May 28, 2005)

tfar said:


> Carlos, thanks for not taking my question the wrong way. It was indeed just an information question and you answered that perfectly well. I have been to Miami before (for the art fairs, what do you think?) and *driving along the waterways I have never seen those cages.* The screen material is certainly the best solution but I didn't guess it was there because while the photo is very good there is not a hint of screen visible. Tastewise I actually like it. It reminds me of those 18th and 19th century pavilions in parks. They are called in German "Pleasure Pavilions". This seems quite a suitable name.
> 
> With a set-up like that my wife would have to beg me to smoke inside.:r
> 
> Till


And you probably won't see them.

That is where the happy people go with lots of money to burn (to live that is as the homes on the waterway are primo bucks).
Near the water, the desire is the open feel, without any enclosures as they don't need them. Near the water, no mosquitoes or not nearly as bad as where I am out west. The breeze doesn't let them hang out long enough.
By out west, I mean I am about 8-9 miles west of the intercoastal. South Florida wise, that is way west. About a half mile from me west is the preserve with bobcats, gators and other fun things roaming free.
We have mosquitoes that appear to look like small planes landing.
As you leave the coastline, you definitely want the bird cage to protect you or you will look like you have been attacked by a bee hive.


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## floydpink (Feb 15, 2007)

icehog3 said:


> If he is, you might be waiting a while for a reply.  :r
> 
> I like her too....would be worth donning the suit. :r


That was indeed a dumb question regarding someone possibly losing their power. Kinda like "I see, said the blind man to his deaf son as his picked up his hammer and saw."

Only tfar will be able to understand such a profound statement based on his extensive Freud research in between art fairs in Miami.:r


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## tfar (Dec 27, 2007)

Thanks, Carlos. I even got an intro to Florida's mosquito biotopes and geography. Now, isn't that a useful thread?:r

Floyd, dude, there is no frickin' time for Freud research between art fairs. :r
These things are hard work. 10-12 hours of walking the museum walk i.e. slow with lots of standing. Then back to the hotel and off to parties and dinners. A horrible life. 

What I found weird is that to me, only knowing Miami from the eponymous Vice, all the cliches were true on first sight. But, unfortunately, I have not had the time to get to know the real Miami. I suppose there is one.

I did take a little photo series on the colors sky blue, pink and green. Great fun.

Till

P.S.: Now, this thread has definitely taken a weird turn. I wonder how much longer until somebody mentions Hitler or the Nazis.


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## Mrs.Smokinpoke (Sep 28, 2007)

tfar said:


> P.S.: Now, this thread has definitely taken a weird turn. I wonder how much longer until somebody mentions Hitler or the Nazis.


It looks like you just did.


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## floydpink (Feb 15, 2007)

I think this is where the self destruction part starts and where I leave due to heritage issues that are still painful. It's been entertaining, but I imagine some emotions are about to be stirred up now and I'd like to stay around the jungle a few more years.


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## Blueface (May 28, 2005)

tfar said:


> P.S.: Now, this thread has definitely taken a weird turn. I wonder how much longer until somebody mentions Hitler or the Nazis.





Mrs.Smokinpoke said:


> It looks like you just did.





floydpink said:


> I think this is where the self destruction part starts and where I leave due to heritage issues. It's been entertaining.


In response to the first quote:


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## andrewsutherland2002 (Feb 16, 2008)

Can't we all just get along? I mean seriously, why are we still arguing over the comments started by this poll?


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## tfar (Dec 27, 2007)

We aren"t arguing about that anymore which is great. I know the Hitler and Nazi comment was a foot in mouth thing. Should have put a smilie, sorry. What I meant is that the thread went so far away from the original thing with all the Borat and mosquito stuff that H and N would be the next step, according to a theory saying that the further a thread goes the more likely it is that those things get mentioned. I was, so to say, making a reference without mentioning. And I really don't see any connection whatsoever nor was it meant to be incendiary at all. I hope no one else sees one, either. So, please, no one jump on my "quote" just to be a smart ass, ok? I hope this one doesn't get willfully misconstrued. Thanks. Tough crowd, anyway. 

Till


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## rumballs (Mar 15, 2005)

:hn


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## smokinpoke (Apr 8, 2006)




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## hollywood (Feb 15, 2005)




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## icehog3 (Feb 20, 2005)

tfar said:


> So, please, no one jump on my "quote" just to be a smart ass, ok?


Damn....Guess I'm out.  :r


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## Kiwi Michelle (Aug 2, 2006)

icehog3 said:


> Damn....Guess I'm out.  :r


*Kiwi giggles*


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## gnukfu (Dec 19, 2007)




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## Harpo (Oct 11, 2007)

Luckily I'm blessed with a better half who not only tolerates my smoking, but enjoys the smell of cigars. Now her mother on the other hand... 


Edit: Just realised the last 100 posts were about how sexist this thread is. Ah well...


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## Blueface (May 28, 2005)

So, let me summarize then:



Blueface said:


>





smokinpoke said:


>





hollywood said:


>





gnukfu said:


>


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## DUCK (Jul 10, 2007)

Harpo said:


> Edit: Just realised the last 100 posts were about how sexist this thread is. Ah well...


sexist....nah!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Not the CS guys.


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## ca21455 (Jul 23, 2006)

New Years Resolutions:

Eat right: *BUSTED*
Complain less: *BUSTED*
Remember when it's time to take out the garbage:* BUSTED*
Exercise more:* BUSTED*
Do not get involved in goofy threads: *BUSTED*

Well at least I lasted till 2/27! :ss


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## icehog3 (Feb 20, 2005)

DUCK said:


> sexist....nah!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Not the CS guys.


But we don't have any "No Girls Allowed" Passes.  :r


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## miana_silvius (Jan 6, 2008)

i was here. 


again.


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## gnukfu (Dec 19, 2007)

DUCK said:


> sexist....nah!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Not the CS guys.


When you get a large group of guys together there is never any sexism. Most discussion revolves around the weather and how best to fertilize the lawn. :ss


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