# Black light Cuban Seal photos



## Gordon in NM

I've been trying for a while to get some decent photos of the new (current) cuban box seals under ultraviolet light, think I finally got it figured out...





The image is a duplicate of the crest on the stamp which is printed in green ink, but moved to the center of the seal and printed in UV ink.

Also, here is a shot of the microprinting on the current seal taken through a hand held 10x loupe. It's not a great photo as I would have needed about two more hands (or a different lens) to get a really good one.



The photos don't show clearly enough how much the invisible inks pop out at you (bright golden yellow)when you examine the seal under black light. The light I have I bought for $6.95 at Target(marked down from $12.95) 18" flourescent w/UV tube. Kids use 'em to set off their black-light posters... man I remember that LOL. It's a nice cheap way to reassure yourself about the product of a new vendor as soon as you recieve it.

Let's see if this thing works...

Gordo


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## DsrtDog

Great post Gordon...I have learned some more today  Thanks and enjoy the sticks... :w


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## floydp

Thanks Gordo, nice post


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## dayplanner

Very cool.... learning made fun

THANKS!


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## catfishm2

Great information. Thanks for sharing.


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## altbier

Thats is some great photography! Thanks for sharing!


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## hollywood

super pictures Gordo! takes a steady hand to use a handheld loupe! great information to share!


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## dayplanner

Great looking pics gordo...thanks for posting them


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## Ron1YY

Great pics Gordon. Very insightful.


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## Scott M

Strong work.

This'll make a great addition to CS. Did you post this in the photo area?

S.


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## Navydoc

I hate to be the one to say this but......I have several boxes and jars of "fakes" with this same seal.....same ultraviolet pics and again, the seriel number that begins with DBxxxxxxxxx. I guess I'm just saying that even this new seal won't guarentee authenticy. Maybe others have a similar experience.


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## One Lonely Smoker

Navydoc said:


> I hate to be the one to say this but......I have several boxes and jars of "fakes" with this same seal.


I can't imagine anyone buying jars at this point. I would think that the ones that were availavble at the "turn of the century" are picked clean. There is a well publicized story of an entire shipment of porcelain jars from Espana just walking off the dock in Havana. I am not trying to sound smug in that first statement, but when I read the news story about the stolen jars, I just rolled my eyes and thought "that's another specialty item with perfect packaging being filled with fake cigars."


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## RPB67

Great Pics. Its getting tougher and tougher these days. that is why you need a good source.

Be careful dont forget WWW.justfakes.com is still around. I cant believe no one has shut this site down yet.


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## dayplanner

RPB67 said:


> Great Pics. Its getting tougher and tougher these days. that is why you need a good source.
> 
> Be careful dont forget WWW.justfakes.com is still around. I cant believe no one has shut this site down yet.


Goodness gracious.... I had no idea a site like that existed... anybody know where this operates out of? WHY hasn't this scum been shut down? You would think that the manufactures would come down on this stuff pretty hard. I wonder if they know? I am going to start contacting companies to see if there is something that can be done. Probably wouldn't hurt for others to do the same so I will report back with contact info in another thread directly started for this purpose.

BTW.... I guess the guy that owns it is Rick Goodman.... anyone know who this is?

Thanks for the heads up RPB67


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## Navydoc

Just to clear the air....the fakes are no longer part of my "stash" Once identified they were "disposed" of. I just wanted to share my experience for the benefit of others that may not have seen these. For me the DB means DON'T BUY......


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## Jsabbi01

Very helpfull, I plan on starting to buy a few boxes of ISOMs soon, and all of the infomation here is invaluable.


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## Gordon in NM

Navydoc said:


> I hate to be the one to say this but......I have several boxes and jars of "fakes" with this same seal.....same ultraviolet pics and again, the seriel number that begins with DBxxxxxxxxx. I guess I'm just saying that even this new seal won't guarentee authenticy. Maybe others have a similar experience.


BINGO... Navydoc gets the prize! (don't know what it is yet but we'll think of something).

I didn't mention it (intentionally)but this box is under suspicion! I was hoping somebody might pipe up with comfirmation. The box in question has a number of features which are so close as to be within the range, but seem just a tiny bit off. Individually probably no big deal but collectively hmmm. The biggest problem is that the cigars were definitely Cuban, and were in fact very tasty. Tasty enough that they have all been smoked, I have nonetheless suspected them for a number of small reasons which I will detail in a post to follow

The DB seal code was one of the issues that first made me suspect them.

A more detailed post will follow.

Gordo


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## hollywood

Aren't there suposed to be a group of letters or numbers that show up differently in the Blacklight? Part of the DB------- code? The first pic you have up is a legit label from what I can tell. If you look close at the DB label; there is part of the area surrounding the DB------- code that is missing, and the crest is off-center a bit.

Did I get close to what you're thinking here?


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## God

Good info...


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## Gordon in NM

hollywood said:


> Aren't there suposed to be a group of letters or numbers that show up differently in the Blacklight? Part of the DB------- code? The first pic you have up is a legit label from what I can tell. If you look close at the DB label; there is part of the area surrounding the DB------- code that is missing, and the crest is off-center a bit.
> 
> Did I get close to what you're thinking here?


That's part of it. notice also that the letters and numbers all seem to show up equally well and the same color on the DB label? I am going to try to get a set of good photos together (hopefully tommorrow) with all of my observations. My sense is if these were fakes (and I'm starting to think they were), they were damn good fakes. They smoked great, and it took me a while to even start wondering about them.

The cigars were Cohiba Siglo III's, box, bands,Linea 1492 ribbon,printed linea 1492 placard, cedar sheet,etc., all look good and right.

Box code is a little weird though...LOME MAR04
From the listings I've seen, LOME is a series 2000 code:

2000 - LOME, LQME 2001 - CLE EL Laguito ( Cohiba )

but I'm not sure if it was in use as late as MAR04.

Has anybody seen a legitimate box with the LOME code and a date that late?

Other small issues as well, I'll try to put together another post that lays it all out for some of the heavy hitters here to weigh in on. as I said, the biggest problem with all of this stuff is that the cigars were really good.

More to follow,

Gordon


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## GOAT LOCKER

Gordon in NM said:


> Has anybody seen a legitimate box with the LOME code and a date that late?


The Cohiba factory switched to MKO in 2003. I've heard of several cases of LOME being used by counterfitters on late 2003/2004 boxes. I'd say that box code pretty well confirms them as fakes. But if they tasted good...


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## Jeff

Great information on this subject. Thanks.


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## RPB67

Good info and nice pics.


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## LasciviousXXX

Yep Goat got it right, LOME & LQME were only in use till '03 and then Cohiba swithced codes.

From what I can tell.... if you have an '04 box with the LOME El Laguito codes.... tis probably fake.... how do they taste though?

That's probably your number one indicator.


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## poker

under UV lighting, the numerical part (i.e., the last six digits) of the serial number should appear black, while the letters (i.e., the first two characters) still appear red.

I'll take some high res pics tonight of some labels under 300W VHO UV lamps I have.


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## pinoyman

poker said:


> under UV lighting, the numerical part (i.e., the last six digits) of the serial number should appear black, while the letters (i.e., the first two characters) still appear red.


*That is Correct!*

Salud!


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## Navydoc

Well, real or not it sounds like you enjoyed them which is more than I can say for the ones I had. Good info. though for everyone! Thanks Poker, I'll have to check that out..


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## pinokio

Real interesting thread! One thing here is getting me confused. Under the black light are you supposed to tell the difference between red and black??
On the second pic you can tell the first two characters are slightly darker than the six digits, is this what it is supposed to look like? Is this the difference between red and black, or on this pic there is no difference??
Confusing huh?


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## Gordon in NM

poker said:


> under UV lighting, the numerical part (i.e., the last six digits) of the serial number should appear black, while the letters (i.e., the first two characters) still appear red.
> 
> I'll take some high res pics tonight of some labels under 300W VHO UV lamps I have.


Yep, that is the case. There is even more to this thing than just the seal, I think it's going to require a mini article to describe all that's going on here, and a bunch of comparative photo's. I discovered some very interesting stuff researching this matter, some of it involving some rather high class fakery. There is a story here beyond what you can see in this thread, and I'm going to try to put it all together as a package with photos, references, and observations, as time allows. Once again, they were very good cigars. If they hadn't been, none of the details they got right (and there were a lot of them) would have mattered.

Also, there is a possibility that I can get my hands on a couple of cigars and or boxes from the same sale/seller (quite a cigar story there) to explore this thing further. It's all water under the bridge at this point, but my curiosity is damn well piqued and I'm going to follow this thing as far as I can take it.

More later,

Gordon


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## Gargamel

I went through the exact same thing last year. I have half a box of, get this, Cohiba Piramide EL 2004. They have that DB code on the perfectly placed seal, the LOME factory code on the bottom and the little hologram. The sticks were perfect looking. I even broke a couple open to look for short filler which they did not have...only long filler. I smoked one and knew immediately it was not the real deal. It wasn't a terrible smoke it just had no taste whatsoever and the only smell I got off the sticks themselves was a faint tobacco odor and cedar.

I got wrangled into buying the half box because a friend of mine had got a box of Siglo VI's, I smoked one and it was actually one of the best cigars I had in months. So I decided to grab 6 more singles from him and let them sit for a while. In the meantime he wanted to split the Box of Fauxhibas and I bit (he had no idea they weren't real). After looking them over and remembering the sublimes had come out the same year I knew that something was wrong here. I did some research (about 40 hours worth) 
into these perfect fakes that were circulating. I decided to go out and get some of my own Siglo VI's (which were a bit banged up due to unbanding) to compare the 2 and they aren't even really that close. The fakes are a smaller gauge, a bit longer and much darker. The labels are a bit off as well but still close enough. 

It is my belief that this is a huge operation. The guy who sells them around here gets $225 per box no matter he sells. My friend is still having a hard time believing they aren't real (he actually doesn't believe me). The guy actually had the nerve to go into the tobacco shop my buddy works at with a trashbag full of these sticks. I would like to meet the guy myself and tell him his stogies are fake but who knows who he is plugged in with. Something as large scale as this is is no doubt organized crime and I value my life enough to not go medddling with counterfieters :gn . I just chalked it up as a loss and the stogies sit on my bookcase unhumidified. I sometime use the leaf for patch jobs. In a way I am grateful it happened because it caused me to research cigars at length and learn a few things.

What I am curious about if anybody has actually got any of these "DB's" from retailers.


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## Gordon in NM

Gargamel said:


> I went through the exact same thing last year. I have half a box of, get this, Cohiba Piramide EL 2004. They have that DB code on the perfectly placed seal, the LOME factory code on the bottom and the little hologram. The sticks were perfect looking. I even broke a couple open to look for short filler which they did not have...only long filler. I smoked one and knew immediately it was not the real deal. It wasn't a terrible smoke it just had no taste whatsoever and the only smell I got off the sticks themselves was a faint tobacco odor and cedar.
> 
> I got wrangled into buying the half box because a friend of mine had got a box of Siglo VI's, I smoked one and it was actually one of the best cigars I had in months. So I decided to grab 6 more singles from him and let them sit for a while. In the meantime he wanted to split the Box of Fauxhibas and I bit (he had no idea they weren't real). After looking them over and remembering the sublimes had come out the same year I knew that something was wrong here. I did some research (about 40 hours worth)
> into these perfect fakes that were circulating. I decided to go out and get some of my own Siglo VI's (which were a bit banged up due to unbanding) to compare the 2 and they aren't even really that close. The fakes are a smaller gauge, a bit longer and much darker. The labels are a bit off as well but still close enough.
> 
> It is my belief that this is a huge operation. The guy who sells them around here gets $225 per box no matter he sells. My friend is still having a hard time believing they aren't real (he actually doesn't believe me). The guy actually had the nerve to go into the tobacco shop my buddy works at with a trashbag full of these sticks. I would like to meet the guy myself and tell him his stogies are fake but who knows who he is plugged in with. Something as large scale as this is is no doubt organized crime and I value my life enough to not go medddling with counterfieters :gn . I just chalked it up as a loss and the stogies sit on my bookcase unhumidified. I sometime use the leaf for patch jobs. In a way I am grateful it happened because it caused me to research cigars at length and learn a few things.
> 
> What I am curious about if anybody has actually got any of these "DB's" from retailers.


Hey Gargamel, check out this thread on CW.
They are discussing sublimes but note the LOME boxcode mentioned on page 1, and follow it to page 2. Also note the smokers reaction to the quality of the LOME smoke...

http://forums.cigarweekly.com/viewtopic.php?t=90358&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=lome&start=0

and there's more,

Gordon


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## The Prince

Gordon, Those are great photos. I knew about this trick, just never seen It before. Thanks for the education.


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## Gargamel

Like I said that one Siglo VI was great but none of the others cigars compared. They smoked good but just had no flavor. Even if they smoke awesome and taste incredible I disagree with "well if they taste good...". These cigars make in into circulation in boxpasses and trades and cause many problems and headaches. 

Well I finally got my buddy to see the light with these threads.

Has anyone bought these from a reputable retailer?


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## Gordon in NM

Gargamel said:


> Like I said that one Siglo VI was great but none of the others cigars compared. They smoked good but just had no flavor. Even if they smoke awesome and taste incredible I disagree with "well if they taste good...". These cigars make in into circulation in boxpasses and trades and cause many problems and headaches.
> 
> Well I finally got my buddy to see the light with these threads.
> 
> Has anyone bought these from a reputable retailer?


Didn't mean to imply that the smokes anybody got from this racket were or should begood, o.k., or bad or anything else. I posted the link because Here was a guy, who thought he had some great Sublimes, (may or may not have been) but that this vitola was showing up with LOME boxcodes as well. POint is, is that I think you are right on the money with your observation that this is a BIG operation, and it's in a whole different class from the glass-toppers with their very weak if mighty successful efforts. The SLB that these came in is nicer than the real ones are. and somebody went to a lot of effort here. The warranty label passes casual UV inspection and the micro-printing is PERFECT.

I gotta wonder how many boxes there are out there. One thing I do know is that from here on out I'm gonna be excersizing real scrutiny on anything with a LOME code, even the 2000-2003's.

Thanks for adding your experiences on this matter, I've goty a feeling there is a lot more there.

Gordo


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## Nely

This is scary!


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## The Prince

Was this a person you purchased these from, or a retailer?


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## Gordon in NM

The Prince said:


> Was this a person you purchased these from, or a retailer?


It's a long story Prince, but the short version is... no not from a retailer. They were bought through a casual friend, a cigar smoker who has a contact... who has a boat.... who comes through with the great stuff...No B.S. ....

I think this casual friend may have bought quite a bit of stuff from this same contact. Right now I'm trying to figure out how to breach the subject to him, and maybe try to get a look (photos?) at anything else he might have bought from this fellow.

All without embarrassing a nice guy. I only bought one box, but they had me fooled for a while too.

Gordo


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## Gargamel

Gordon in NM said:


> Didn't mean to imply that the smokes anybody got from this racket were or should begood, o.k., or bad or anything else. I posted the link because Here was a guy, who thought he had some great Sublimes, (may or may not have been) but that this vitola was showing up with LOME boxcodes as well.


I was just speaking generally not directed at anyone particularly.


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## poker

As promised....


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## poker

[No message]


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## poker

[No message]


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## The Prince

A very Informative thread. Thanks.


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## GOAT LOCKER

Outstanding thread! I did not know the first 2 characters of the serial number glowed red in black light. Now I just gotta climb up into the attic and find my old black light :w


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## hollywood

Great additional pictures Kelly! are they from different years? curious as to why the space at the bottom where the code is, is different on some. One will have the detail of the leaves on either side of the code, while others appear to be without them.

can you see where i'm speaking about? just still curious.


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## pinokio

Thanks for the pics and info Poker, answered my question.


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## t'kay

Awesome thread! I kinda want some blacklight pictures for art now...perhaps when i have my own house i'll just have a blacklight room with Seals all over it


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## AuntBee

Are there scenarios where the boxcode (from a genuine cubano) is all red under UV? I have received boxes from a very reputable source that is still all red under UV, but the smokes are awesome. Does this distinction automatically make the product fake?


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## icehog3

Great thread and info, thanks guys!


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## falconpunch99

AuntBee said:


> Are there scenarios where the boxcode (from a genuine cubano) is all red under UV? I have received boxes from a very reputable source that is still all red under UV, but the smokes are awesome. Does this distinction automatically make the product fake?


Yeah I would like to see what people say about this because I've seen the same thing before.


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## Uniputt

I don't know about everyone else around here, but I vote that this thread be moved to the hall of fame for future reference by everyone. This has been most informative. Thanks for all the effort put into the pictures, and the explanations. 

This place is "The Bomb".


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## SDmate

great thread guys, It's scary to think how sophicated these operations have got & being a newb what is stopping these guys from putting true box codes on their so called cubans cigars or is their volume so great that they don't have to worry about fooling everybody.


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## Gordon in NM

AuntBee said:


> Are there scenarios where the boxcode (from a genuine cubano) is all red under UV? I have received boxes from a very reputable source that is still all red under UV, but the smokes are awesome. Does this distinction automatically make the product fake?


Good question, while I don't have the definitive answer, I have and have had boxes with seals as you describe that are to my satisfaction very much genuine. I think this does happen from time to time.

I have a box of Boli PC's from '03 with an all red number. The cigars are gone but were definitely straight up, from a trusted vendor, and besides, who would bother to fake Boli PCs. I'll see if I can get a picture of that seal up.

What I DO notice, and pay attention here,
 is that the fake warranty seals I have seen are printed on a different paper. The paper of the genuine seal reads pretty dark under UV illumination with some obviously UV reactive (read white under UV) fibers in them. The fako seals read MUCH whiter under UV than the real McCoys If you have a good seal, and compare them side by side, the difference is clear. The real one will read much darker in UV. Examine it with a loupe under UV and you'll readily see the whiter fibers, against the darker background.

Examine the paper, there is something there. Some papers use UV brighteners in the mix and I think these fakes are printed on such stock.

More to come,

Gordo

Meantime, I'd avoid like the plague anything with a "DB" prefix on the warrranty seal. Also be leery of the date when you see a LOME or LQME factory code. If the date code is after 03 they're sure to be bogus. I don't think LOME was used after 02 but I'm not DEAD certain.

If anyone has a known good LOME 03 box I'd like to hear from you.


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## RcktS4

I just have to say that I think this is one of the most informative (and interesting) threads I've seen on here. Thanks guys, esp. Gordon and Poker, for the info. Keep it coming! I need more fodder for the obsession!


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## DownUnder LLG

This is what I call a "Top o da Wozza" thread. Well done guys, man my head is spinning.


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## Gordon in NM

Here's the Boli seal I mentioned:



As I examine it closely in natural light, I can see a difference in the ink used for the letters, and that used for the numbers. they are in fact two different inks. The letters are a little redder, and the numbers just a half a shade purpler. I think the UV differences or lack thereof have to do with additives to the second ink, or perhaps the skimping on one component or another. I believe it's just a quality control issue



My current conclusion is that it's a matter of the batch of ink used for the numbering. I believe that the seals are printed in sheets by the govt. printing office, and that they are numbered in a separate operation, hence the often differing gaps and spacing between lettercodes and numbers. It is the different ink used for the numbers that is supposed to read darker under UV, and I think that the composition of the numbering ink may vary from batch to batch.

Remember this is Cuba.

All this is of course just speculation and guesswork based on my own observations and a little applied logic. I claim NO real expertise on the subject.

Gordo


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## One Lonely Smoker

Gargamel said:


> I would like to meet the guy myself and tell him his stogies are fake but who knows who he is plugged in with. Something as large scale as this is is no doubt organized crime and I value my life enough to not go medddling with counterfieters :gn.


You said a mouthful my man, Think about it. Who has the resources to go ALL OUT into a business that is as lucrative as the cocaine trade with virtually none of the risk. It is no stretch at all to realize that it does not take billions of dollars to produce the same materials on a large scale that the Cubans have designed and made for their own operation. And you can get cigars rolled for embarassingly low costs down in Central America. Put it all together and you can fool anyone. In fact, with all of the info available through these forums, I am shocked that they still make these box code mistakes that are the dead giveaways after investing so much time and research into the packaging minutia. You bet there's organized crime involved, and you bet when the embargo lifts, it'll be Katie bar the door! You won't be able to swing a dead cat without hitting a counterfeit cuban cigar in the US. And we spend so much time deriding Mexico as the home of the fake cuban cigar. Just wait.


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## Lamar

Great Stuff!


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## SeanGAR

Gordon is dead on folks, this thread and Cadazores helped me ID a bad box.

How about a seal that fluoresces red? The microprinting on this seal is superb, the nicest that I have seen, and you can see the letters are red and numbers are not. But the red fluorescence? Anybody else with red fluorescing seals? From a box of 10 LGC Tainos 2001.

http://filebox.vt.edu/users/okeefes/red01seal.jpg


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## vic_c

Fakes ?

This is a repost with pictures after my account was deleted during the crash.

Here are photos I took of three different boxes from 3 different vendors.....as you can see the second number portions are slightly darker in color but not "black" ....some more so than others.

are these all fakes ?


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## poker

GF 044578 looks faintly ok but kinda strange
GH 1564 looks strange as both letters & numbers are exactly the same color
GM 127633 looks ok

Remember, its usually more than just the government seal that 
determines if a box is real or not. Its usually more often than not a combination of things that one should observe when making that determination:

Government seal
Habanos SA chevron
Burn stamp on bottom
Date/factory code
Cigar size
Uniformity of color
Triple cap
Band detail
Price
Taste


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## vic_c

Thanks Poker.... I posted some more pics of GM 127633 (the monte 2's box #1) and GH 1564 (the RyJ's) in a different post because I didn't want to hijack this thread but I thought the black light pictures were interesting and seemed a little off.


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## MoTheMan

poker said:


> Remember, its usually more than just the government seal that
> determines if a box is real or not. Its usually more often than not a combination of things that one should observe when making that determination:
> 
> Government seal
> Habanos SA chevron
> Burn stamp on bottom
> Date/factory code
> Cigar size
> Uniformity of color
> Triple cap
> Band detail
> Price
> Taste


Couldn't say it better.


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## vic_c

For reference: *110% LEGIT BOX SEAL PHOTO*......this Party D box was purchased a week ago at a Davidoff store in Switzerland.


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## Blueface

vic_c said:


> Fakes ?
> 
> This is a repost with pictures after my account was deleted during the crash.
> 
> Here are photos I took of three different boxes from 3 different vendors.....as you can see the second number portions are slightly darker in color but not "black" ....some more so than others.
> 
> are these all fakes ?


Great photos.
How do you guys shoot these black light photos?


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## Gordon in NM

Blueface said:


> Great photos.
> How do you guys shoot these black light photos?


Digital camera, no flash, UV illumination, proper exposure settings.

A tripod helps to keep things sharp at the slower shutter speeds sometimes needed.

Gordon


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## dyj48

Just an observation on these great photos by Bluefacel and vic c. If vic c.s photos are legit, and the holograms are printed the same way for all legit boxes, you might notice that the letter "c" from the word "nacional" does not have the hologram seal touching it. IMHO, I would guess that for the three photos by blueface that box GM127633 are legit and the first two are not. This might mean with black light we can tell by simply looking at the word "nacional" if it's legit or not. that is until the counterfeiter catch up with this as well.


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## dyj48

dyj48 said:


> Just an observation on these great photos by Bluefacel and vic c. If vic c.s photos are legit, and the holograms are printed the same way for all legit boxes, you might notice that the letter "c" from the word "nacional" does not have the hologram seal touching it. IMHO, I would guess that for the three photos by blueface that box GM127633 are legit and the first two are not. This might mean with black light we can tell by simply looking at the word "nacional" if it's legit or not. that is until the counterfeiter catch up with this as well.


I'm sorry, I guess all of the photos were by Vic C. Didn't follow the thread concisely. Still, just great photos by Vic C.


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## Lopez

Does anyone know when the UV ink shield started appearing on the seals? Is it something that started when they went to the new seal in 2000/2001?


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## dayplanner

Guys,

I have some very interesting comparative pictures that I will post up tonight. The most illuminating comparisons are of authentic and counterfeit seals imaged side by side under UV.

Wilkey


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## dayplanner

*Ultraviolet Light Illuminated Cuban Warranty Seal*

Guys,

Here are some comparative photos I've taken of two boxes of Bolivars. One box is a 2005 vintage semi-plain box of Coronas Junior, authentic. The other box is a 2004 vintage semi-plain box of Coronas, counterfeit. This latter box also provided the specimens for the real/fake comparison I posted in the Habanos forum.

The UV illumination was carried out with a $20 long-wavelength UV lamp commonly used by stamp collectors.

*Picture 1. UV illuminated Cuban Warranty Seals*
There are two things to note. The first is not so visible in this particular exposure and that is the details of the two shields are slightly different. The second thing, though, is screaming obvious. Authentic seals are printed on paper stock that has no brightening agents in it. The counterfeit seal on the counterfeit box is printed on stock which does contain UV-active optical brighteners commonly used in the manufacture of high-brightness office and inkjet papers.

Authentic seals should look dull, and on older boxes almost dingy.










*Picture 2. Detail of the Cuban Warranty Seals*
In this blow-up, three things are notable. First, the ink used in the counterfeit seal on the left is of a different shade than the authentic specimen. Second, the two-letter alphabetic prefix and six-letter numeric serial number are not aligned. Third, the printing of the fake is fuzzy and the ink bleeds into the surrounding paper fibers. The serial letter/number combo on the authentic seal is crisp and sharp.









Wilkey


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## Diselfitter

3x5card Great Photo work. 

the comparision makes it much easier to understand. 

Thanks.

Deez


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## Guest

Sorry to resurrect an older thread, but thought i'd share some information I recently came across when checking a friends collection with a UV light. Based on other threads posted on this topic, I expected to see non-flourescent warranty seals with flourescent green marks for new-style warranty seals (containing the letter/numerical code). For the vast majority of boxes, this is what I came across, though there were some anomolies:

Two boxes of recent vintage Bolivar Colosales -- ordered directly from a LCDH -- flourescent seal with a pinkish mark

Two boxes of 2006 EL Cohiba Pyramids -- ordered directly from a LCDH -- flourescent seal with a pinkish mark

One box of 2006 JL Obus --floursescent seal with a pinkish mark (interestingly, the only box of three with these markings, the remaining two boxes have the traditional non-flourescent seal and the bright green mark)

One box RA Estupendos -- ordered from official habanos distributor -- non-flourescent "XX" seal with bright green mark on top of flourescent seal with pinkish mark

One box Partagas Pyramid EL original release --flourescent seal with pinkish mark

One jar Cohiba millenium reserve -- flourescent seal with pinkish mark


So it seems maybe we are in a transition period with respect to the nature of the paper stock on the warranty seals and the related color of the UV mark. Or, my friend owns a bunch of fakes? :hn 

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.


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## Boston_Dude05

Excellent thread, esp. w/the pics. Very informative.


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## Lost Sailor

GTS,for what it's worth,I recently got some new cigars in that have pink flourescence in the seal.As to authenticity, there are no doubts as they came from an LCdH and an authorized distributor...both have impeccable records (I'm wondering if they came from the same guys that your friend uses ).

RA Estupendos RE w/ the pink 
Punch Super Robustos RE w/ the neon yellow/green
Cohiba 2006 Pyramides EL both boxes w/ the neon yellow/green

above came from the same place.

Bolivar Colosales RE w/ the pink

Por Larranaga Lonsdales RE w/the neon yelow/green

both of these came from an official LCdH

intertesting thing is both the pink seals begin with *IA* then the 6 digits

when I started the thread on the other forum(yes,it was me:bn ) I was looking for someone,such as yourself,that could relate a similar finding,that's all.Man,what a shit storm it ended up causing.:BS 
Thanks for your input!


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## Boston_Dude05

Strange place for this thread. Shouldn't it belong in the ISOM lounge?


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## Kayak_Rat

If it is that way now, there might be a reason. Why not do a little research or maybe pm a mod about it?


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## Cigary

I have an idea that there aren't too many of us who haven't been fooled or taken for a ride as far as having a "fake" cuban cigar. As with most "must have" items there will always be market for counterfeit goods,,,,our precious stogies will be one of them. Our only guarantee is to buy authentic merchandise from an authentic merchant,,,period,,,end of statement. Seriously, it isn't only cigars,,,it is from cigars to Louis Vuitton to watches,,,,,there is a serious demand for these items and WE are always looking for a "good" deal,,,,where we can get said items for a bargain,,,,that is the problem. P T Barnum knew what he was talking about,,,,,we are suckers for things we want and will at times bargain with our nature to get the things we want for the price we want,,,,,,wellllll, here ya go. We just created a market for thieves to come in and "sell" us what we want and if I'm lying then why are there so many people interested in buying things underground? If we buy from legal merchants we are assured of getting what we paid for,,,yes, I know it is much higher but that is the way the world of supply and demand works. 

We could debate all day and night about this subject but the last word should and always be,,,if you want what you want,,then be prepared to pay what you have to pay,,,,,and should you be lucky enough to know a guy who knows a guy who has Cuban Cigars at a reduced price,,,,and you actually get to smoke a real Cuban Cigar,,,you are fortunate. However, as Karma usually works out, you end up paying for that honest Cuban by paying for a fake somewhere down the line,,,it all works out. Do like I do,,,shop around for the best deal available and get your stuff honestly,,,even if you are able to get illegal stuff on the side,,,sooner or later you pay,,,,,,it's called Destiny. This would be my :2


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## Pablo

Cigary, You shall from this point forward be called "Comma Man"


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## hova45

Really interesting info


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## Cigary

pds said:


> Cigary, You shall from this point forward be called "Comma Man"


Ha ha ha. Thanks as I have been called much worse and it's a good thing that you put in the right vowel at the start or else I would really have a reputation to live up to!!:ss


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