# The Story of the Fake LE, 3 Different Ones



## OpusXtasy (Apr 2, 2005)

This is going to be fun as with the holidays approaching we all have wish lists for ourselves and others and want to get some primo good smokes, rare in fact if they are available. Tonight I will be posting pictures for comparison of what I am saying are fake boxes of LE cigars compared to real boxes of LE cigars. Where the sh*t might hit the fan is these boxes came from a "reputable" vendor. I don't mind taking my lumps on a learning curve for a box here and there but this was multiple boxes and I don't think one of them is legit. I can not think of a better place to get educated, experienced and honest opinions on these cigars because I want to make sure to the best of my abilities I am not crying wolf, nor do I want to wrongly accuse anyone of wrongdoing knowing how important reputations are when it comes peddling fakes. I have been doing this long enough that my gut tells me something is not right. Where I will need the most help is with the warranty seals with the serial numbers as compared to the manufacturing dates. Construction on these looks suspect and the bands have definite differences in color and/or appearance. What first set me off after seeing the inconsistencies in construction was that the LE bands on the suspect smokes are not embossed like the LE bands on the legit smokes. This however is not enough evidence to make final judgment so all opinions are welcome. Let the show begin! :gn


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## justinphilly-cl (Sep 7, 2005)

in this corner, a reputable vendor hailing from ( ?? ) his record is virtually spotless......

and in the opposite corner, a member of club stogie, opusxtasy...

alright boys lets keep it clean. members of the audience are free to discuss and share opinions, but lets not get involved in the battle.. no shots below the belt, andyou cannot be saved by the bell in ANY round..



Lets get ready to rumble............................... :bx


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## Blueface (May 28, 2005)

justinphilly said:


> in this corner, a reputable vendor hailing from ( ?? ) his record is virtually spotless......
> 
> and in the opposite corner, a member of club stogie, opusxtasy...
> 
> ...


Justin,
Lets add that names should be left out to protect the innocent.
Remember, if factual, can't be libel or slander. HOWEVER, if unproven or purely speculative, could be a problem.

Also, 10 point must system for scoring- maximum 12 rounds.

Any volunteers to be the ref?


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## justinphilly-cl (Sep 7, 2005)

dude, i dont want to know names.. TRUST ME!! I played the role of michael buffer, we need refs, ring-card girls (must post pics), and judges..


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## smokeydude (Oct 5, 2005)

ding,ding,ding


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## Blueface (May 28, 2005)

justinphilly said:


> dude, i dont want to know names.. TRUST ME!! I played the role of michael buffer, we need refs, ring-card girls (must post pics), and judges..


One more thing, I think we should put this bout off.
In order to do this right, I think there should be a number of judges.
Say, any member with a 100 rg or higher (make sure it includes us).
Next, a week before the match, ship samples to all members.
Each member gets one of the purported real ones and one of the purported fakes.
We then all have a "away" herf while the match goes on.
This way, we can truly judge the match.

All that agree chime in.


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## justinphilly-cl (Sep 7, 2005)

chime in here


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## RPB67 (Mar 26, 2005)

I dont care who the vendor is.

I just want to see the noticable differences in the cigars and the boxes.

Post the pics.


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## justinphilly-cl (Sep 7, 2005)

i would like to nominate rpb as a judge.. since i certainly would not nominate him for a ring-card-girl


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## RPB67 (Mar 26, 2005)

justinphilly said:


> i would like to nominate rpb as a judge.. since i certainly would not nominate him for a ring-card-girl


Just want to see the pics. Leave the judging to the Fogs out here.


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## raisin (Dec 3, 2005)

I'm always afraid to indulge my paranoia, let the trail begin!


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## jgros001 (Jun 14, 2005)

Let's see some pics!



Blueface said:


> In order to do this right, I think there should be a number of judges. Say, any member with a 100 rg or higher (make sure it includes us).


I am sure there are plenty of gorillas with lots of RG that I could give a damn what they think about a box of fakes. Say it with me now, RG does not equal expert.


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## dayplanner (Dec 11, 1997)

jgros001 said:


> Let's see some pics!
> 
> I am sure there are plenty of gorillas with lots of RG that I could give a damn what they think about a box of fakes. Say it with me now, RG does not equal expert.


 :tpd: Somebody just ask Bruce lol


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## RPB67 (Mar 26, 2005)

carbonbased_al said:


> :tpd: Somebody just ask Bruce lol


Or if MRN will take a break from washing his car. We can ask him !

From what I see out here Bruce is very knowledgable and would be a great canidate to be one of the judges.


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## Blueface (May 28, 2005)

jgros001 said:


> Let's see some pics!
> 
> I am sure there are plenty of gorillas with lots of RG that I could give a damn what they think about a box of fakes. Say it with me now, RG does not equal expert.


Dude, you need to lighten up.
Have you considered anger management classes?

I was freaking kidding!
Have you ever heard of being facetious?
Can you smile and can we all chuckle together?

Say it with me now, LIGHTEN UP!


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## jgros001 (Jun 14, 2005)

Blueface said:


> Dude, you need to lighten up.
> Have you considered anger management classes?
> 
> I was freaking kidding!
> ...


Don't really feel like starting some s*** but...

Who took the jam out of your doughnut today? I was just stating an opinion. Is that ok?? I didn't notice any anger in my post, ie no exclamations, no caps, no bad words. You sir are the one who is getting angry, see the exclamations, caps. Heed your own advice.


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## Da Klugs (Jan 8, 2005)

Just post the pics. The FOG's love this kind of chit. I'm sure the ones that matter will emerge from their semi euphoric state, part the cloud of aged smoke. and comment.

Or maybe avoid the drama and send them back for a refund. If this is a reputable vendor as you say, that shouldn't be a problem.

I don't get everyone's facination with EL's. That Habaonos 2000 maduro wrapper does not do anything for me. Maybe they will be sublime in 5 to 10 years but there are plenty of smokes that are great now or available with some age on them that IMO kick EL Butt especially for the money.


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## GOAT LOCKER (Aug 7, 2004)

I'm with Dave, you can just post the pics, or just send them back and never have to worry if they are fake. The only fakes I've seen come from "reputable vendors" were the Original Release and 2001 EL's that recently reappeared.


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## OpusXtasy (Apr 2, 2005)

GOAT LOCKER said:


> I'm with Dave, you can just post the pics, or just send them back and never have to worry if they are fake. The only fakes I've seen come from "reputable vendors" were the Original Release and 2001 EL's that recently reappeared.


Link to pictures coming in a few minutes. Looks like Mr. Locker is getting 
_very warm!_


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## OpusXtasy (Apr 2, 2005)

These are the links for the Montecristo Robusto LE:

http://home.insightbb.com/~garydr/LE_FAKES/DSC02057.JPG

http://home.insightbb.com/~garydr/LE_FAKES/DSC02058.JPG

http://home.insightbb.com/~garydr/LE_FAKES/DSC02059.JPG

http://home.insightbb.com/~garydr/LE_FAKES/DSC02060.JPG

http://home.insightbb.com/~garydr/LE_FAKES/DSC02061.JPG

http://home.insightbb.com/~garydr/LE_FAKES/DSC02062.JPG

http://home.insightbb.com/~garydr/LE_FAKES/DSC02063.JPG

http://home.insightbb.com/~garydr/LE_FAKES/DSC02064.JPG

http://home.insightbb.com/~garydr/LE_FAKES/DSC02065.JPG

http://home.insightbb.com/~garydr/LE_FAKES/DSC02066.JPG

http://home.insightbb.com/~garydr/LE_FAKES/DSC02067.JPG

http://home.insightbb.com/~garydr/LE_FAKES/DSC02068.JPG

http://home.insightbb.com/~garydr/LE_FAKES/DSC02069.JPG

http://home.insightbb.com/~garydr/LE_FAKES/DSC02070.JPG

http://home.insightbb.com/~garydr/LE_FAKES/DSC02071.JPG

http://home.insightbb.com/~garydr/LE_FAKES/DSC02072.JPG


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## OpusXtasy (Apr 2, 2005)

OpusXtasy said:


> These are the links for the Montecristo Robusto LE:
> 
> http://home.insightbb.com/~garydr/LE_FAKES/DSC02057.JPG
> 
> ...


Here are the things that I question:
1. The bands are a different color
2. The edicion limitada bands on the fakes are no embossed
3. The date codes and serial numbers do not make sense. The fake are all 
date coded SUA NOV 00 with the following serial numbers
a.	DD 251523
b.	DD 251533
c.	DD 251536
The real ones have a date code of PAR DIC 00 with a serial number of
AF 221375. I think the letters are too high for the dates

4.	The inside sheet of paper included with all LE cigars is much lighter print than the legit box
5.	The construction is very rough on the fake Montes and the smell is very underwhelming
6.	The warranty seal is translucent as if it is printed on paper of lower quality. You can see the artwork of the cigar box under the seal. The printing of the seal has a bolder deeper green on the original while it is fainter on the fake boxes.

Please let me know what you think or if you want more pictures. I also have pictures of the fake Romeo Robusto LE and the Partagas Piramide LE. These two have the same issues as the Montecristo cigars. I am sending these back as I do not feel comfortable at all with these smokes. I appreciate all your input and am going to use this to become even more educated on spotting fakes.


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## GOAT LOCKER (Aug 7, 2004)

These early EL's started showing up at a few otherwise reputable dealers in 04 and 05. There are certainly a few genuine boxes available, if you look hard enough, but suddenly there were hundreds of boxes at numerous places. Monte Robustos, Monte DC's, Cohiba Piramides and RyJ Robustos. Most shops caught on that these were fake and removed them from their inventory, but a few shops still have them. Some are supposed to be decent Cuban cigars, but fake none the less.

There are several threads here warning people to beware of fake EL's from 00 and 01. Hopefully your retailer will take them back with no problems.


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## Bruce5 (Jul 27, 2003)

As a general piece of info IIRC, the early EL bands were not embossed.


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## GOAT LOCKER (Aug 7, 2004)

Bruce5 said:


> As a general piece of info IIRC, the early EL bands were not embossed.


Good info, checking the few singles I have, only the 03 and later are embossed. Never noticed that before...


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## Blueface (May 28, 2005)

jgros001 said:


> Don't really feel like starting some s*** but...
> 
> Who took the jam out of your doughnut today? I was just stating an opinion. Is that ok?? I didn't notice any anger in my post, ie no exclamations, no caps, no bad words. You sir are the one who is getting angry, see the exclamations, caps. Heed your own advice.


Come on. Seriously. Lighten up.
Lets end it here.
I was joking. Even with my caps, it was a facetious response to your "can you say" facetious response.
Justin and I were having fun and you turned it around for I don't know what reason.
You originally stated that many members with high rings couldn't care about fakes or something to that affect. Sure, your opinion, but don't know what prompted that and don't believe that comment to be true.
Then, you state high ring does not mean experience. Perhaps true, perhaps not, but again, don't know what prompted that unsolicited opinion that was clearly an attack on my joke of giving taste tests to members with ring higher than 100.


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## justinphilly-cl (Sep 7, 2005)

it seems to me that we have a side-fight going on here as well.. And me, being to pot-stirrer, would like to add..



And in this corner, jgross, claims that caps means anger.....

And in the BLUE corner....................... :bx


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## Blueface (May 28, 2005)

No side match.
I either misinterpreted his facetious comment that was intended as humor or I interpreted it right.
If I got it wrong, my apoligies.
If I got it right, well, it is not worth continuing.

By the way Justin, you did in fact start this.
No SUBLIMES for you.

OOPS, there I go using caps again.


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## LasciviousXXX (Oct 12, 2004)

Guys, can we knock off the shit?

Seriously, this is an informative thread and I'd like to read a good thread in the Habanos section without having to wade through the shit. If you got beef, take it to PM.

I'd like to get back to the discussion on fake EL's now.

Thanx,
XXX


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## Neuromancer (Sep 7, 2005)

Blueface said:


> No side match.
> ...By the way Justin, you did in fact start this.
> No SUBLIMES for you....


You are such a meanie...


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## justinphilly-cl (Sep 7, 2005)

Blueface said:


> No side match.
> I either misinterpreted his facetious comment that was intended as humor or I interpreted it right.
> If I got it wrong, my apoligies.
> If I got it right, well, it is not worth continuing.
> ...


lol!


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## Blueface (May 28, 2005)

Back to the real thread.

The comparisons are incredible.
Nothing like photos to tell a story.

I would still be curious to see how they taste, even if fakes, by smoking them back to back. Would be really interesting to see how much they go out of their way when making these fakes.

Also, would love to dissect the fake by slightly cutting into the binders on both and comparing the insides.


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## cigarking (Jun 5, 2003)

OpusXtasy said:


> Here are the things that I question:
> 1. The bands are a different color
> 2. The edicion limitada bands on the fakes are no embossed
> 3. The date codes and serial numbers do not make sense. The fake are all
> ...


I have a couple of questions:

When were the SUA boxes purchased?? 
Same Vendor as the other boxes you believe are authentic?
Were the boxes sealed ?
Did the boxes look like the warranty seals might have been removed and new seals pasted??

As for the bands , just because they are lighter or darker or the printing is not centered does not suggest they are fake. Once they are the old dull chocolate wrappers and not shiny wrappers.

In the Cuban Cigar factories the quality of appearnce of the cigar boxes, labels,heat stamps and even proper stamping of factory codes are sometimes overlooked.This is Cuba now, nothing goes to waste and factory workers don't make USD$40,000.00 a year!!

I am looking at the factory codes and I do think the cigars are authentic.


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## SeanGAR (Jul 9, 2004)

GOAT LOCKER said:


> There are several threads here warning people to beware of fake EL's from 00 and 01. Hopefully your retailer will take them back with no problems.


What GL said.


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## vic_c (Sep 7, 2005)

Excellent post...pics really do tell a thousand words!


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## One Lonely Smoker (Jan 21, 2005)

Holy crap son, were you stocking up for nuclear winter???
That is JUMPING IN with both feet. Them's alotta boxes. Do you have multiples of the other vitolas as well??
Yipes.


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## dayplanner (Dec 11, 1997)

One Lonely Smoker said:


> Holy crap son, were you stocking up for nuclear winter???
> That is JUMPING IN with both feet. Them's alotta boxes. Do you have multiples of the other vitolas as well??
> Yipes.


When or if Brad makes that statement... it carries a lot of weight


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## OpusXtasy (Apr 2, 2005)

cigarking said:


> I have a couple of questions:
> 
> When were the SUA boxes purchased??
> Same Vendor as the other boxes you believe are authentic?
> ...


Not same vendor.
Not Sealed. 
Yes, the warranty seals look like that could have happened.
I understand about the bands. On some bands it is just color. On others the printing is different. I know the difference between the old and new Monty bands.


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## One Lonely Smoker (Jan 21, 2005)

Excellent questions by cigarking, I was wondering that myself as I have NEVER had a single box of havanas arrive with the warranty seal flaking off. The habanos chevron loves to come off, but the warranty seal, IME has always stuck, well, like glue. Wait, I DID have one box do that, and it was a "suspect" box now that I think on it. But with all of the seals flaking off, I would be upset. I was holding off on saying anything because of the extreme difficulty in doing so, but I would send them all back, and pray that it went well. You had PMd me the vendor in question and I had heard no bad stories, but I think I just did see one. Best of luck with that deal, it's going to be a challenge. And for the record, I do not feel comfortable dealing with any vendor that opens my boxes. Even to put bubble wrap inside, hell, especially to put BW in a box. IME, it tears up the feet. I trust my guy completely, but he also very rarely opens boxes either. There are far too many things to worry about without getting a bunch of open boxes with slack seals, crooked burnt irons, odd looking factory code stamps, VERY bizzare bands, questionable warranty serial sequences, etc. I mean, take your pick.


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## OpusXtasy (Apr 2, 2005)

Agreed. I have had a few seals peel off somewhat on legite boxes but they were cabinet selection. Sometimes paper does not stick to wood as well.


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## cigarking (Jun 5, 2003)

Opusxtasy,

After looking carefully at your pictures again, (the third from last pic)the Monte El's on right are shorter and more round, El's on left look a bit longer ,smaller ring guage and slightly box pressed. 

I would send them back, if the seals were broken when recieved maybe fake EL's were placed in a real box or an empty one after the real cigars were sold.(maybe at a store)

So...can we see the pics of the R Y J and Partagas EL's!!!


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## OpusXtasy (Apr 2, 2005)

cigarking said:


> Opusxtasy,
> 
> After looking carefully at your pictures again, (the third from last pic)the Monte El's on right are shorter and more round, El's on left look a bit longer ,smaller ring guage and slightly box pressed.
> 
> ...


Yes. I will post this weekend.


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