# Genesis - The Project - Blatant Liga Copy!



## jeffreyjames (Dec 15, 2011)

Hi All,

So I've heard really good things about this Genesis, the project cigar. I went to CI and placed an order for a five pack. They arrived today, and I can't help to get a little bit annoyed at the fact that it is a almost exact Liga Privada copy as far as the label goes. Now I should give it a chance and smoke it before I get annoyed, but it's hard just on principle to get excited about a company that imitates. Ok rant over.

Does anyone else agree, or have impressions about this cigar ?


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## capttrips (Jun 25, 2012)

Are you serious because this is one of the....I won't say it. Why would you write off a cigar because of the band? You're not smoking the band are you? Besides, I don't think the bands look anything alike.


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## JG5000 (Dec 28, 2012)

There are lots of copy cats in the market. Not sure if this is one or why it would be so upsetting. Smoke it...I heard they are great. I have one resting in my humidor.


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## grapplefu (Jan 16, 2011)

I don't see any problem with the bands nor does it look like a Liga band to me.


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## [email protected] (Aug 16, 2012)

Disagree, dont look a like.


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## copper0426 (Aug 15, 2012)

Are you sure your looking at the right cigar. I DON'T see it at all. I've smoked both and like them both. I have them both in my humidors.


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## D307P (Sep 28, 2012)

I don't see it


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## DarrelMorris (Feb 7, 2012)

I've heard good things about them. There are so many cigar lines out there that it is inevitable that some may resemble others. It may not be a deliberate attempt at imitation. Even if it is, let the cigar speak for itself.


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## jeffreyjames (Dec 15, 2011)

Really, no similarities? Again, I'm going to smoke it, and I hope I like it, but it just really seems like its impersonating. Others online have said the same thing. Google it, I'm not crazy.


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## BMack (Dec 8, 2010)




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## nfusion770 (Apr 1, 2011)

Maybe have to try these out- always handy to have a few cheapies around


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## copper0426 (Aug 15, 2012)

I am speechless I GOTTA GO WITH THE GOLDEN RULE HERE FELLAS


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## nfusion770 (Apr 1, 2011)

Wait so is everyone just commenting that they don't see a similarity (which I guess I can see in the color scheme and pattern)or are these dog rockets? I read a couple of reviews that seemed to pretty positive.


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## jeffreyjames (Dec 15, 2011)

Thank you. Curious to hear others impressions rather than people bashing me for having an observation.



nfusion770 said:


> Wait so is everyone just commenting that they don't see a similarity (which I guess I can see in the color scheme and pattern)or are these dog rockets? I read a couple of reviews that seemed to pretty positive.


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## D307P (Sep 28, 2012)

It's a good cigar and can be picked up cheaply on Cbid


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## capttrips (Jun 25, 2012)

The comment in and of itself is just ridiculous and then to try to defend that comment is more ridiculous.


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## capttrips (Jun 25, 2012)

Not to split hairs but these cigars are not "cheap". They are inexpensive.


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## [OT] Loki (May 24, 2006)

jeffreyjames said:


> View attachment 43002
> View attachment 43002
> 
> 
> really, no similarities? Again, i'm going to smoke it, and i hope i like it, but it just really seems like its impersonating. Others online have said the same thing. Google it, i'm not crazy.


oh my god, they both have white on them!


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## Shemp75 (May 26, 2012)

I think they are even rolled the same way! That annoys me greatly! let me check to see if they both have glue holding the bands on. (better not!)


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## kra961 (May 16, 2012)

Wow I couldn't disagree more with your statement jeffrey. Thinking you might have overdosed just a little on nicotine. I'll be willing to step up to help a BOTL alleviate the angst you're suffering just send me the Genesis. What more can a brother do?


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## Stillinger (Jan 29, 2013)

i don't think they're a rip off, but there are some similarities if you look at it in a certain way. 

Whatever. A decent smoke is a decent smoke. I've found the Genesis I had to be a decent smoke. Not something I'm going to stab a guy for, but something I wouldn't say no to.


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## [OT] Loki (May 24, 2006)

Shemp75 said:


> I think they are even rolled the same way! That annoys me greatly! let me check to see if they both have glue holding the bands on. (better not!)


unless they're rolled on the thighs of 15 year old virgins i'm not interested


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## Goatmilk (Jan 2, 2012)

I never noticed this before thanks for pointing it out! I just completely destroyed the box of toros I just got. Bastards!


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## JG5000 (Dec 28, 2012)

Lol...alright...no need to rub it in...it was a mistake...let's not bully the guy.


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## PhillyPhan (Aug 19, 2008)

I wouldn't go as far as calling it a rip off but I definitely agree that there are undeniable similarities between the bands.


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## splattttttt (May 17, 2012)

Padron and Mantecristo are identical. Can we argue about them?


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## ATCarp (Sep 24, 2012)

Agreed... Plus, who really cares. Yes, I can see the similarities too. No need for people to get butthurt, ON EITHER SIDE.


JG5000 said:


> Lol...alright...no need to rub it in...it was a mistake...let's not bully the guy.


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## HIM (Sep 12, 2012)

I do see some definite similarities, but I wouldn't go so far as to say its a blatant copy.


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## RyanSK (Dec 27, 2012)

I see similarities as well, but not enough to call it a rip-off. :ask:


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## Ky70 (Aug 21, 2012)

[OT] Loki said:


> unless they're rolled on the thighs of 15 year old virgins i'm not interested


Yuck


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## Brookswphoto (Dec 25, 2008)

splattttttt said:


> Padron and Mantecristo are identical. Can we argue about them?


Its ok to copy the cubans.


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## splattttttt (May 17, 2012)

Brookswphoto said:


> Its ok to copy the cubans.


there's much truth in what you speak LOL


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## stonecutter2 (Jul 12, 2012)

jeffreyjames said:


> Hi All,
> 
> So I've heard really good things about this Genesis, the project cigar. I went to CI and placed an order for a five pack. They arrived today, and I can't help to get a little bit annoyed at the fact that it is a almost exact Liga Privada copy as far as the label goes. Now I should give it a chance and smoke it before I get annoyed, but it's hard just on principle to get excited about a company that imitates. Ok rant over.
> 
> Does anyone else agree, or have impressions about this cigar ?


I don't think it's quite an exact copy, but it's styled similarly.

Regardless of the band, I do enjoy the sticks. They're great for the price. The first one I smoked ended prematurely at the 1/4 line because of a distraction. I relit the stick the next day, after it sat in the ashtray - I thought, why waste this cigar. Then I thought - whoa this thing is great, what cigar was this again?

They have some great flavor.

I have the ashtray exclusive vitola - robusto extra I think. It's like 0.5" longer than a robusto. As an aside, the ashtray is great, too. Decent wood grain and the tray bottom is glass. Nice little drawer on the bottom for accessories, too.


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## Max_Power (Sep 9, 2010)

The genesis project band is obviously modeled after the liga band. That's the first thought I had when I saw them, and I'm sure it's helped CI sell a bunch of them. Just like their Nica Libre band is obviously modeled after the Padron anni bands.


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## B-daddy (Oct 29, 2012)

Max_Power said:


> The genesis project band is obviously modeled after the liga band. That's the first thought I had when I saw them, and I'm sure it's helped CI sell a bunch of them. Just like their Nica Libre band is obviously modeled after the Padron anni bands.


^^^ I thought this when I saw them in the catalog. Certainly not identical but similar. Haven't smoked them (but look forward to) and don't know if they're any good.

More concerned about the flogging our brother took for expressing his opinion. Good natured pokes, cool. Impassioned arguments, great. That's the fun and value of the forum; but this was a mini-feeding frenzy. I guess I shouldn't talk/judge. I know I often send messages with good natured intentions that are ultimately received as insulting. Just give folks the benefit of the doubt.


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## jeffreyjames (Dec 15, 2011)

I really appreciate that. As a newer member of the forum, I cant say it was a particularly welcoming string of responses. Being called a "Tool" and mocked repeatedly, maybe one could imagine how that would seem to a new smoker at your local cigar lounge. So maybe it's more of a similar band than a copy, I could see that and apologize if anyone is that passionate about the brand that they reacted.



B-daddy said:


> ^^^ I thought this when I saw them in the catalog. Certainly not identical but similar. Haven't smoked them (but look forward to) and don't know if they're any good.
> 
> More concerned about the flogging our brother took for expressing his opinion. Good natured pokes, cool. Impassioned arguments, great. That's the fun and value of the forum; but this was a mini-feeding frenzy. I guess I shouldn't talk/judge. I know I often send messages with good natured intentions that are ultimately received as insulting. Just give folks the benefit of the doubt.


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## Fuzzy (Jun 19, 2011)

Just smoke the damn cigar! Then, lets us know how you liked it.

My opinion is, it's a fine cigar but, it is not a LP.


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## capttrips (Jun 25, 2012)

What really were you expecting? You call out a great member of the cigar community and question his integrity without ever smoking the damn cigar. You got what you deserved.


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## Max_Power (Sep 9, 2010)

jeffreyjames said:


> I really appreciate that. As a newer member of the forum, I cant say it was a particularly welcoming string of responses. Being called a "Tool" and mocked repeatedly, maybe one could imagine how that would seem to a new smoker at your local cigar lounge. So maybe it's more of a similar band than a copy, I could see that and apologize if anyone is that passionate about the brand that they reacted.


IMHO, it's "copied" as closely as they thought they could get away with. An exact clone would obviously incite litigation.


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## penguinshockey (Aug 31, 2010)

With all due respect Dave - I don't believe it was a blantant copy either however they could have been a little more original with the design imho.



capttrips said:


> What really were you expecting? You call out a great member of the cigar community and question his integrity without ever smoking the damn cigar. You got what you deserved.


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## jeffreyjames (Dec 15, 2011)

I simply made an observation. Was expecting a simple conversation. Maybe a disagreement. Especially from a fellow head who's name suggests they have been turned on by psychedelics.

Btw. I smoked the cigar. It was good. I liked it.



capttrips said:


> What really were you expecting? You call out a great member of the cigar community and question his integrity without ever smoking the damn cigar. You got what you deserved.


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## nfusion770 (Apr 1, 2011)

It seems this cigar was always viewed as somewhat of a Liga clone and the label similarities are certainly there. Even this Puff review (a firmly established member) from last year assumes a Liga comparisons.

http://www.cigarforums.net/forums/vb/non-habanos-reviews/313346-ramon-bueso-genesis-project-review.html

I am not sure if the OP just struck a cord or what, but the response was the most aggressive I've seen in my short time here, especially when he seems to be echoing a sentiment that seems pretty common.

Anyway, another cigar I am not familiar with that I might give a try.


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## ssaka (Oct 28, 2007)

I am so confused by this thread... 

IMO, the Ramon Bueso is a knock-off - the general look, the story, the pitch, etc. etc... I am surprised some others do not see it, but ultimately it is a non-issue.

We are in an industry where knock offs are common, plus there are only so many different ways people can brand cigars so overlap is a relatively common occurrence.

Plus as a general rule of thumb, many big catalog company house brands are intended to be look-a-likes to draft off the good will of other successful brands. It is part of our industry and most others really.

So while I believe it is a knock-off, while I believe the guys at CI know it is a knock off, it is not something to go to war over imo.

The Genesis cigar itself imo is a pretty decent smoke, I have had a few that were excellent, but most have been pretty good particularly for the price.

I think they are worth trying, I can understand why a consumer would buy and enjoy them, but I do not think they are even close to LP in quality or flavor.

All the above is JUST MY PERSONAL OPINION.

BR,

STS


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## fuente~fuente (May 11, 2009)

Max_Power said:


> The genesis project band is obviously modeled after the liga band. That's the first thought I had when I saw them, and I'm sure it's helped CI sell a bunch of them. Just like their Nica Libre band is obviously modeled after the Padron anni bands.


Pretty much it...


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## Madlying (May 10, 2011)

I have had the Genesis #9 and really enjoyed it, ok just kidding. Maybe I am one of the weird ones, but I prefer the Genesis over the Liga, don't get me wrong I do enjoy the Liga.

When the Siglo cigar came out some felt it was a knock off of Cuban Cohibas because of the band. Well the Siglo is a really good cigar, and it didn't hurt that Frank Llaneza had a hand in creating it.


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## Mante (Dec 25, 2009)

jswaykos said:


> This forum is a shadow of what it used to be. Just sayin'.


What have your musings got to do with this thread Joe? Just askin'. :fencing:

On topic: It is often said that imitation is the highest form of flattery & I must say I agree there is a component of imitation with those bands pictured. I'd be proud to have my band copied (even if I had one), that a competitor considered it worthy of the effort.


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## asmartbull (Aug 16, 2009)

jeffreyjames said:


> Hi All,
> 
> So I've heard really good things about this Genesis, the project cigar. I went to CI and placed an order for a five pack. They arrived today, and I can't help to get a little bit annoyed at the fact that it is a almost exact Liga Privada copy as far as the label goes. Now I should give it a chance and smoke it before I get annoyed, but it's hard just on principle to get excited about a company that imitates. Ok rant over.
> 
> Does anyone else agree, or have impressions about this cigar ?


If this annoys you, you should a Cohiba CC, then try it's NC namesake......Now that will P*ss you off !


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## B-daddy (Oct 29, 2012)

Johnnie said:


> Seriously man. I've been inactive for a while. Checking a thread from the email every now and again but not many. Now it's as if I went went off the college after my parents celebrated their 25 anniversary, all warm and lovey and I come home for Christmas and my dads living in the garage and my moms throwing frying pans at him as he's carving the turkey.


Don't fret, Johnnie. Mommy and Daddy are still smoochin' it up most nights. You just caught them at a weak moment. Families that don't argue once in a while, end up killing eachother in their sleep. :gn ...Or boring each other to death. :hn

I don't have a very large frame of reference, because I've only been active here a few months. In general, though, this forum is full of good folks that genuinely try to help but aren't afraid of a frank and honest disagreement.

C'mon home. Your room's just the way you left it. :hug:

(I apologize for the side road. Back to the topic.)


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## ssaka (Oct 28, 2007)

I remain utterly confused by this thread and am blissful in such confusion... <snicker>

STS
"Now going to go make something else for someone else to copy"


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## jswaykos (Oct 26, 2010)

asmartbull said:


> If this annoys you, you should a Cohiba CC, then try it's NC namesake......Now that will P*ss you off !


Ha, my thoughts exactly.


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## sdlaird (Mar 15, 2011)

ssaka said:


> I remain utterly confused by this thread and am blissful in such confusion... <snicker>
> 
> STS
> "Now going to go make something else for someone else to copy"


Please do. As someone said earlier, imitation is the highest form of flattery. Your thoughts in the longer, earlier post, are spot on. The rest of the nonsense would take too long to explain, but there have been "happenings" with the constitution of the members and posters that has changed the dynamic here --- probably just temporary, maybe not. Time will tell.

Back on topic -- I have had one Genesis that was gifted by a friend and I thought it was good and I would have another. RG was too big for my liking. Price point OK, I do not see it as a huge "value" stick in the what you get compared to what you pay sense, but not overpriced either.

Does it have marketing similarities -- yes it does, you can't deny that just because it is not an exact clone. If you said, I just looked at a label and generally, it can be described as "Having a white to off-white band with muted "water mark" type lettering in the background. Scripted wording and a large black square with logo." And then asked "guess the brand...." What would you guess it was? I would guess it was an LP #9 or T-52 or Dirty Rat or..... you get the point.

Marketing works on the subconscious and IMO that was the goal, to make one deep down somewhere associate that label with the LP line and hope to get a similar experience out of the cigar when smoked.

Finally, WTF???? Why are you guys jumping on a guy that made a post that was making a personal observation and then asked if anyone else agreed? Tossing personal insults in response IMO shows bad form. What ever happened to a respectful disagreement? Just because someone disagrees, especially when it comes to personal opinions and personal impressions, does not make it a right versus wrong debate. It is immature, ignorant and arrogant to take the position that because someone holds an opinion that you disagree with, strongly disagree with or even believe is simply wrong somehow makes that person stupid. Really?

In general, in everyday life, this approach to discourse is unacceptable. However, here, in a forum and community that prides itself on brotherhood, generosity and above all, differences of opinion on highly subjective topics, it is blasphemy.

MY post ^^^ is a rant! MY post ^^^ is a "tantrum!"

And just so you know, MY post ^^^ is so right, you would have to be a complete idiot to disagree with me. (<----- See this here is called sarcasm, it is intended to bring attention to the issue)

Go ahead, flame away! :crash:


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## Magnificent_Bastard (Feb 29, 2012)

Interesting thread. Lively debate. And I especially like that Mr. Saka chimed in with his .02.

FWIW, it is a tasty cigar, and it is nothing close to a LP.


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## 8ball (Feb 17, 2006)

This thread is great advertising for the genesis! I have one resting, looking forward to trying it.


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## splattttttt (May 17, 2012)

ssaka said:


> I remain utterly confused by this thread and am blissful in such confusion... <snicker>
> 
> STS
> "Now going to go make something else for someone else to copy"


l volunteer as test pilot.

And all you cry babies please, just stop. No body cares. Enough with the soapbox rants.


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## teedles915 (Jun 18, 2009)

capttrips said:


> Dear moderator: Will you please close this worthless thread.


Closing this one is certainly tempting...... but that would be unfair to the op who posted a legitimate question.

Gentlemen,

Please have some respect, if you do not like the topic move on and let other people comment. Personal shots, and rudeness are not needed, and certainly unwanted by the majority of the members here.


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## HIM (Sep 12, 2012)

ssaka said:


> I remain utterly confused by this thread and am blissful in such confusion... <snicker>
> 
> STS
> "Now going to go make something else for someone else to copy"


Steve, while I dont think the band is a blatant copy I think the general look as you mentioned is similar and I totally agree with your points. Though admittedly I dont know the story behind the Genesis. Sadly the practice happens all the time, and not just with cigars. Heres some horrible ones in a variety of markets, the former copying the latter.... Admiral Nelson / Captain Morgan... Jianghuai Auto Corps 4R3 / Ford F150.... Samsung / Apple.... LEGO / Kiddiecraft.... Oreo / Hydrox.... Finding Nemo / Pierre the Clownfish....Unforgettable Dream - The Bar Kays / Easy - The Commodores.

And atop them all IMO is the cigar companies taking advantage of the Cuban companies names.


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## Herf N Turf (Dec 31, 2008)

jswaykos said:


> This forum is a shadow of what it used to be. Just sayin'.


I could, with great validity, say the same of YOU.

Trust me, it's NOT the forum  


ProbateGeek said:


> Yes, to all three of these. Now I may have been active solely on the pipe side since, oh, around Christmas or so when all the sh*t was hitting the fan here, but to practically tear a guy's head off for posting a legit thread?
> 
> Shame on you, Shemp75 whoever you are - the more I see of your caustic posts the less time I want to spend here. Sheez...


Same to this. Just because some nipple weening whiners thought they controlled the forum, rather than the forum controlling itself, does NOT constitute anything hitting any fan of any significance. All is well and business continues as usual.

Personally, the only thing I noticed hitting anything was reality hitting a few miscreants in the forehead.

Now, BACK TO THE TOPIC AT HAND.


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## sdlaird (Mar 15, 2011)

Herf, setting aside the departed and the varying opinions on that, i would like to keep this thread focused on this thread. i am interested to hear your thoughts on the responses the op received.


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## Gdaddy (Sep 20, 2012)

No need to beat up Jeffery so bad. Really not necessary.

Back to topic... The Nica Libre copies the Padron as well but I really don't care. Those who think it's a Padron are the fools. However I enjoy it none the less.


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## cigarmax (Feb 23, 2011)

A copy, who cares. I'm just going to enjoy my pedron and kookie cola and relax.


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## splattttttt (May 17, 2012)

I'm gonna go smoke some bands. Cigar bands that is...


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## HIM (Sep 12, 2012)

Why? Everyone just act like a damn respectable adult and there's no issue. Puff is a forum mostly for people interested in the cigar hobby. Theres no reason to be rude to anyone or should there be a need for the mods to police us.


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## TJB (Dec 10, 2012)

Whatever happened to imitation as the highest form of flattery?

If anything I think I will have to try one of these now . 

And you people are MEAN!!! And entertaining!


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## pittjitsu (Mar 30, 2012)

To be honest, I never looked at the band very closely but when I reviewed the cigar, I did compare it to the Liga #9 and T52. Its color wrapper and taste is what brought me to that conclusion. I believe I called it "the poor man's Liga". But as someone pointed out already, if that offends you, take a look at the many Cuban cigars that have had their full name, band and vitola copied by non Cuban Co's. That's just plain theft and intent to confuse the consumer. Many of those Cuban companies are family owned and have history over 100 yrs old. So their markings and names are more personal than just a business cheap shot.
Lastly, why not show your feelings to the maker by choosing NOT to purchase them?


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## cigarmax (Feb 23, 2011)

pittjitsu said:


> To be honest, I never looked at the band very closely but when I reviewed the cigar, I did compare it to the Liga #9 and T52. Its color wrapper and taste is what brought me to that conclusion. I believe I called it "the poor man's Liga". But as someone pointed out already, if that offends you, take a look at the many Cuban cigars that have had their full name, band and vitola copied by non Cuban Co's. That's just plain theft and intent to confuse the consumer. Many of those Cuban companies are family owned and have history over 100 yrs old. So their markings and names are more personal than just a business cheap shot.
> Lastly, why not show your feelings to the maker by choosing NOT to purchase them?


Many of the Cuban brands were taken by the owners when they were forced to repatriate to other lands after the revolution. Many then eventually sold the brand names to major manufacturers. The theft occured when the revolutionary government nationalized their assets.


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## DSTEW (Jan 1, 2013)

pittjitsu said:


> To be honest, I never looked at the band very closely but when I reviewed the cigar, I did compare it to the Liga #9 and T52. Its color wrapper and taste is what brought me to that conclusion. I believe I called it "the poor man's Liga". But as someone pointed out already, if that offends you, take a look at the many Cuban cigars that have had their full name, band and vitola copied by non Cuban Co's. That's just plain theft and intent to confuse the consumer. Many of those Cuban companies are family owned and have history over 100 yrs old. So their markings and names are more personal than just a business cheap shot.
> Lastly, why not show your feelings to the maker by choosing NOT to purchase them?


I agree with you wholeheartedly that if you think something is a copy you should not purchase it. That said, when you start talking about the Cubans there is a whole history to consider. The government took the lands, brands, farms, etc... from all the families when the communists took over. Many of those that fled started "similar" brands. Not always the case but I am just saying. I do a lot of work in Miami with one of the preeminent Cuban American families. Any mention of "cuban brands and copycats" without a comprehensive discussion of the communist takeover is criminal to those guys.

On the original topic, While I do think they look similar I don't think its fair to call it a "blatant liga copy". To me that implies the intent of the owner was to copy LP and that implies that you know a lot more information than I think you do. I'm not saying it is or isn't a blatant copy. I am just saying you would really have to know some insider information to say that their whole purpose was to copy the look of liga. I don't really understand what would be gained from looking similar. Are people really buying them thinking they are LP? I'll grant you that I often underestimate the number and magnitude of idiots in the world - but I just don't think people are buying the genesis project thinking its a liga. They have a different name, feel, price, flavor, etc...

I am more inclined to say they just look similar aesthetically and it is not a blatant copy.


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## fuente~fuente (May 11, 2009)

Serenity now... Serenity now... :fish2:


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## splattttttt (May 17, 2012)

DSTEW said:


> I agree with you wholeheartedly that if you think something is a copy you should not purchase it. That said, when you start talking about the Cubans there is a whole history to consider. The government took the lands, brands, farms, etc... from all the families when the communists took over. Many of those that fled started "similar" brands. Not always the case but I am just saying. I do a lot of work in Miami with one of the preeminent Cuban American families. Any mention of "cuban brands and copycats" without a comprehensive discussion of the communist takeover is criminal to those guys.
> 
> On the original topic, While I do think they look similar I don't think its fair to call it a "blatant liga copy". To me that implies the intent of the owner was to copy LP and that implies that you know a lot more information than I think you do. I'm not saying it is or isn't a blatant copy. I am just saying you would really have to know some insider information to say that their whole purpose was to copy the look of liga. I don't really understand what would be gained from looking similar. Are people really buying them thinking they are LP? I'll grant you that I often underestimate the number and magnitude of idiots in the world - but I just don't think people are buying the genesis project thinking its a liga. They have a different name, feel, price, flavor, etc...
> 
> I am more inclined to say they just look similar aesthetically and it is not a blatant copy.


after reading this post (thanks Daniel), I'm greatfull for what was started here. Making lemonade.


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## HIM (Sep 12, 2012)

No offense Tony but because its rude to the OP and shouldn't be done in the open thread. Lets keep the thread on topic instead of it becoming arguments amongst members. Again no offense, just tryin to help keep the peace and the thread on topic before the mods have to shut it down.


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## D307P (Sep 28, 2012)

I always stay out of the mix on some of the threads, and always try to be as friendly as possible. I think, and this is my opinion, is what started the "shots" was the way Jeff worded his original post. You can never tell a persons inflections in a typed post, email, or even a text. But his use of words such as annoyed upon opening his package, or hard to get excited about a company that imitates, I think was maybe not converyed to us in the way he meant it. 

If his post would have said something like "has anyone else noticed that some cigar companies seem to copy others bands" and listed a few examples, it would have resulted in many posts of friendly back and forth comparisons of similar bands.


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## Dave.73 (Mar 25, 2010)

Gentlemen,

I appreciate the discussion but we need to try to stay on topic. I am going to go back through the thread and remove any off topic posts. I just wanted to post this note here as to why so everyone knew the reason.

If you want to continue the off topic discussion please do so in PM. There is also no need to reply to my post as that will derail the thread again. Thanks.


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## tswest11 (Jan 31, 2013)

I bought a bunch for about 3 bucks a piece and very happy about it. I've enjoyed them and certainly had much more expensive sticks that aren't nearly as good. Although my overall cigar experience is limited.

As to the copy thing, the entire industry (and nearly all industries, to be fair) are copy cats. Companies make what people buy, and that includes labels and appearance just as well as performance (marketing talk here). Definitely some similarities, but I've seen a lot of cigars with similar bands.


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## Jordan23 (May 25, 2012)

Max_Power said:


> The genesis project band is obviously modeled after the liga band. That's the first thought I had when I saw them, and I'm sure it's helped CI sell a bunch of them. Just like their Nica Libre band is obviously modeled after the Padron anni bands.


+1. I havent tried the Genesis yet, but plan to. To the OP-Try it, you may love it. People are different. I like the Undercrown more than LPs and like Nica Libres a bit more than the regular padron line. Everyone's palate is different.



Madlying said:


> I have had the Genesis #9 and really enjoyed it, ok just kidding. Maybe I am one of the weird ones, but I prefer the Genesis over the Liga, don't get me wrong I do enjoy the Liga.
> 
> Not weird, that's your opinion and yours is the one that matters as the smoker.
> 
> When the Siglo cigar came out some felt it was a knock off of Cuban Cohibas because of the band. Well the Siglo is a really good cigar, and it didn't hurt that Frank Llaneza had a hand in creating it.


I always wanted to try that cigar...because of the band. I also heard it was good.



teedles915 said:


> Closing this one is certainly tempting...... but that would be unfair to the op who posted a legitimate question.
> 
> Gentlemen,
> 
> Please have some respect, if you do not like the topic move on and let other people comment. Personal shots, and rudeness are not needed, and certainly unwanted by the majority of the members here.


Big +1. They guy just had a question. Whether some felt it was..whatever...I feel the response could have been more welcoming to someone new.


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## Wicked_Rhube (Jul 29, 2012)

I think if you can copy a band, good for you. If you can copy the taste / smoke / experience, and sell em for less, then good for me!


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## Maluther45 (Feb 20, 2013)

Being a noob myself i saw these on CI and didn't really read the description. I just saw the picture and thought it was another DE line a d would likely be good. I only didn't buy it because I'd just stuffed my humi full and had still more cigars on order.


I did eventually read the review and its obviously not a DE product. I could easily see someone confusing it with a liga should they just be handed a stick. Not all of us are that good at recognizing bands yet!

Judging by its review though it looks like its going on my list to be ordered soon!


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## [email protected] (Aug 16, 2012)

Wicked_Rhube said:


> I think if you can copy a band, good for you. If you can copy the taste / smoke / experience, and sell em for less, then good for me!


ΔΔΔΔΔΔΔΔΔΔΔΔΔΔΔΔΔΔΔΔΔ couldnt have said it better.


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## HIM (Sep 12, 2012)

Taste is very subjective so of course ymmv but I didn't think the 2 Genesis Ive smoked were even comparable to any Liga I've smoked in flavor. Like not even close.


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## Questionablesanity (Jul 24, 2012)

I have never been fortunate to have any LP so I cannot attest to any kind of taste similarity, however I was able to pick up some of the Genesis the Project from a BOTL and I love them. One of my favorite go to smokes. Not to pricey and great taste. As far as the label goes, if LP was Apple than yeah, they would go after the Project but I am guessing in the end (like most of Apples ridiculous claims) they would lose. Like others have said, the label is reminiscent of an LP but not a direct copy.


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## HugSeal (Dec 5, 2011)

The bands certainly have some similarities and I wouldn't be surprised if they looked to the LP when designing it. Is it the same or a blatant copy? Not in my opinion. Is it heavily influenced by LP? I would say yes. Then again, cigarbands with gold, embossing and some kind of coat of arms(not sure if that word exists in american english I'm afraid, it's like an insignia for a certain house of knights)-like print is pretty abundant too.

Telling people to get back on topic, in a thread that spiraled away a bit with insults, while simultaneously calling others "nipple weening whiners"(which must be some kind of on the spot made up insult, how do you even ween a nipple, and what does weening mean?) is an interesting take on the whole concept of consistency.



Herf N Turf said:


> I could, with great validity, say the same of YOU.
> 
> Trust me, it's NOT the forum
> 
> ...


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## pittjitsu (Mar 30, 2012)

DSTEW said:


> . I don't really understand what would be gained from looking similar. Are people really buying them thinking they are LP? I'll grant you that I often underestimate the number and magnitude of idiots in the world - but I just don't think people are buying the genesis project thinking its a liga. They have a different name, feel, price, flavor, etc...
> 
> I am more inclined to say they just look similar aesthetically and it is not a blatant copy.


I hear you but I think your underestimating the power of branding and the subconscious of the consumer. Have you ever gone to the supermarket and accidently bought the off brand because the label was so similar to the main brand? I have. There is a reason they aim their marketing that way. I think our minds see familiarity as a sign of comfort and if Liga Privada already won you over, it cant hurt to tie your brand to it in any fashion possible. Personally, Like I said, I never consciously looked at the label but I did add in my review of the Genesis that it reminded me of a Liga. That was purely on taste and looks of the stick. Yet I have no doubt that the cigar looking similar to a Liga has helped them sell more than a few to otherwise skeptical consumers.


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## Matt4370 (Jan 14, 2012)

Herf N Turf said:


> I could, with great validity, say the same of YOU.
> 
> Trust me, it's NOT the forum
> 
> ...


What an arrogant response. Power hungry mods does not reality make. To call people like Ron (Shuckins), Pete, Ian, and others, "miscreants"?

This thread is so full of FAIL


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## splattttttt (May 17, 2012)

HugSeal said:


> The bands certainly have some similarities and I wouldn't be surprised if they looked to the LP when designing it. Is it the same or a blatant copy? Not in my opinion. Is it heavily influenced by LP? I would say yes. Then again, cigarbands with gold, embossing and some kind of coat of arms(not sure if that word exists in american english I'm afraid, it's like an insignia for a certain house of knights)-like print is pretty abundant too.
> 
> Telling people to get back on topic, in a thread that spiraled away a bit with insults, while simultaneously calling others "nipple weening whiners"(which must be some kind of on the spot made up insult, how do you even ween a nipple, and what does weening mean?) is an interesting take on the whole concept of consistency.


 *weaning a baby off the nipple* Like, let the effin shit go for goodness sake. The topic is cigar bands! Not about everyone here wanting to be a mommy.


Matt4370 said:


> What an arrogant response. Power hungry mods does not reality make. To call people like Ron (Shuckins), Pete, Ian, and others, "miscreants"?
> 
> This thread is so full of FAIL


 that like a parting comment on your part Matt?


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## HugSeal (Dec 5, 2011)

splattttttt said:


> *weaning a baby off the nipple* Like, let the effin shit go for goodness sake. The topic is cigar bands! Not about everyone here wanting to be a mommy.


Let what go? I don't have anything to let go off, I was simply replying to the thread stating my opinion about the bands. Meanwhile I replied to another post in this thread that in my opinion was rude, unneccesary and outright wrong. Why is it so intimidating that I express an opinion?


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## tonyrocks922 (Mar 6, 2007)

*loud noises *


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## splattttttt (May 17, 2012)

Staying on topic... Blatant Copy? What about the *Carbon Copy Brand???* I'll probably never try them! But the way they claim of using similar blends? 
How can they make such claims of being able to reproduce a Cuban with tobacco grown in Nicaragua? They can't!


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## Selias (Jan 22, 2013)

Remind me to never ask a question here. Wow, talk about ripping off a newb's head.


Did some of the folks from AR15 dot com make their way here or something?


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## splattttttt (May 17, 2012)

Selias said:


> Remind me to never ask a question here. Wow, talk about ripping off a newb's head.
> 
> Did some of the folks from AR15 dot com make their way here or something?


please stay on topic. Thank you!


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## fuente~fuente (May 11, 2009)

Selias said:


> Remind me to never ask a question here. Wow, talk about ripping off a newb's head.
> 
> Did some of the folks from AR15 dot com make their way here or something?


Naaaah... Ask any question you want. 99.99% of the time, you'll get more help than you'll need. 

This thread however, just happens to be the exception...


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## Herf N Turf (Dec 31, 2008)

sdlaird said:


> Herf, setting aside the departed and the varying opinions on that, i would like to keep this thread focused on this thread. i am interested to hear your thoughts on the responses the op received.


Thanks for the call to revisit reality, Scott! LOL

My thoughts have actually already been visited. "Don't judge a book by it's cover", comes to mind. Yes, I concede that there are some similarities, but I fail to see how it could/would/should cloud one's experience of the smoke itself. There's really only so much you can do with a band, logo, label, that's not already been done. Again, while I see some similarity, I don't see how the similarities could diminish the experience. After all, I tend to remove bands pre-light, anyway. To me, it's just a piece of paper, wrapped around a cigar. Some of my favorite cigars sport some of the least attractive, or interesting bands.

For me, *this thread is the perfect set-up* for Jeffery to do a thoughtful review of the stick. He could slam the band and express how aesthetics do, or don't impact his personal enjoyment. Perhaps, for him, it's like fine dining where, "presentation is everything". I could respect that. Either way, it would prove fascinating reading.


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## stonecutter2 (Jul 12, 2012)

Selias said:


> Remind me to never ask a question here. Wow, talk about ripping off a newb's head.
> 
> Did some of the folks from AR15 dot com make their way here or something?


lol, too true.


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## shaun341 (Dec 21, 2012)

IMO if you want to see the bueso band as the same as an lp band then you will find a way, but they are very different in almost all aspects. about the only similarity is that they both use white with background writing in it. LP does not have a black ring at the bottom of there bands and they also don't say Genesis the Project in gold lettering in the black band that does not exist on an LP. They also don't say ramon bueso throughout the entire white area of the band. I mean if you want to take 1/10 of the entire band and call it the same then you could do that with just about any brand that has a similar color in it.


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## fuente~fuente (May 11, 2009)

See... Me & McDonald's have this misunderstanding. 

They're McDonald's... I'm McDowell's... 

They have the Golden Arches, & I have the Golden Arcs. 

They have the Big Mack, I have the Big Mick...


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## ssaka (Oct 28, 2007)

fuente~fuente said:


> See... Me & McDonald's have this misunderstanding.
> 
> They're McDonald's... I'm McDowell's...
> 
> ...


I love that goofy movie! :>


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## Jordan23 (May 25, 2012)

fuente~fuente said:


> See... Me & McDonald's have this misunderstanding.
> 
> They're McDonald's... I'm McDowell's...
> 
> ...


Bump for you Jason! I needed that. Best post I have read in a long time.....!! Where's my Coming to America dvd? Absolute classic. Mumbling to myself "Will you taste the soup!?"


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## fuente~fuente (May 11, 2009)

Jordan23 said:


> Bump for you Jason! I needed that. Best post I have read in a long time.....!! Where's my Coming to America dvd? Absolute classic. Mumbling to myself "Will you taste the soup!?"


Aggghhh hggghaaaa! Aggghhh hgggghaaaa!

Vhat is dat? Velvet???


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## jeffreyjames (Dec 15, 2011)

Hi All-

After the series of aggressive replies to my original post, I believe I subconsciously decided to not return to the forum. I've always been the type of person in life that when I see blatant negativity around me, I respond, and then quickly move on and away from it. I am a fairly new member of the community, and decided prematurely that with such a harsh response from SOME of the members, it was not a community that I wanted to be a part of. 

I logged back in tonight and saw that the thread carried on quite a bit, and what I saw truly changed my mind of what this community is all about. I saw people that I have never met or even had dialogue with, stand up for me, someone they had no connection to. I saw intelligent, respectful disagreement to my original post, and even had my own original, even fairly close minded opinion shift in to a more open minded opinion of what I originally had expressed. This is the true meaning of community for me, and I just really want to say thank you for those who showed their true, impressive colors. There are some genuine, kind, wise, humorous people here who I would really like to get to know.

So.. Thanks all, smoke on, and I appreciate you welcoming me here with your refreshing response.

-Jeff


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## splattttttt (May 17, 2012)

keep on truckin brah


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## jhedrick83 (Dec 4, 2012)

Glad that was the decision you made, Puff is a great place and a wonderful source of info. There are always a few in every crowd who are just malcontents, don't let them scare you off. :lalala:


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## BMack (Dec 8, 2010)

jeffreyjames said:


> Hi All-
> 
> After the series of aggressive replies to my original post, I believe I subconsciously decided to not return to the forum. I've always been the type of person in life that when I see blatant negativity around me, I respond, and then quickly move on and away from it. I am a fairly new member of the community, and decided prematurely that with such a harsh response from SOME of the members, it was not a community that I wanted to be a part of.
> 
> ...


Good! I hope you understand that you probably couple have worded things differently and not have gotten that response. If you would have asked what others thought and said what you felt, I'm sure the response would have been more discussion oriented. I personally still don't see much of a resemblance, I see more differences than similarities...but opinions vary from person to person.

Glad to see you back.


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## John75 (Sep 28, 2012)

Glad you decided to come back and join in again. Sometimes people get their panties in a wad, what can you do? don't let it keep you away, for what you seek is on these pages!

I can see your original point, although I wouldn't call it a blatant copy, but as we say in the business the Genesis labels certainly targeted the "feel" of the LP labels. And there are a lot of similarities with the labels. Yes, I am in the design business, actually I'm an art director, so I'd a least like to think that I have a somewhat educated opinion on this kind of thing. A certain design has some success for any number of reasons, usually because it's tied to a great product, and other similar products start to target the look and feel of the successful products. It makes sense; why target a loser right? Color palate is similar, elements have been treated in a similar way, modern fonts used with a mix of cursive fonts, foil stamping used; the layout is quite different. A copy no, but the LP most certainly was the benchmark for the design. Hey, Lexus built cars for the first ten years of their existence copying the design elements of a Mercedes Benz; it worked for them. If you're going to pick a design direction, you might as well pick a good one!

Nice to see you back, friendly piece of advice going forward. Ask questions and encourage discussion don't make bold statements, well... unless it's time to make a bold statement! See you on the board.


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## Madlying (May 10, 2011)

> I always wanted to try that cigar...because of the band. I also heard it was good.


I really like the Siglo, and they are not very expensive either.


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## fuente~fuente (May 11, 2009)

jeffreyjames said:


> Hi All-
> 
> After the series of aggressive replies to my original post, I believe I subconsciously decided to not return to the forum. I've always been the type of person in life that when I see blatant negativity around me, I respond, and then quickly move on and away from it. I am a fairly new member of the community, and decided prematurely that with such a harsh response from SOME of the members, it was not a community that I wanted to be a part of.
> 
> ...


Glad to see you shrug it off Jeffery...

Let me also just say that this is great example of why we should be very careful when your posting sometimes. We're all not "seasoned vet's" here, & some may be new to forums all together. Who knows? Who knows how many guys who would've became good members here, who were put off by somone else's post toward them?

Think twice about what you post if it may be taken a little brashly before you hit "reply", especially to a newer member.


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## capttrips (Jun 25, 2012)

I think it's important for newcomers to remember that first impressions are everything around here. When they come out and slam something without any knowledge of it then you kinda get what you asked for. As for the guys who have been here a bit we need to practice patience and understanding. I know this very well because more than one moderator has told me to stop slapping around noobs and crushing their dreams. Welcome back and there will be a group hug and singing of Cumbyahh later.


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## Gordo1473 (Dec 1, 2012)

:grouphug::smoke::smoke2:


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## neko988 (Oct 5, 2011)

Jeff, not sure if you had realized, that the person ssaka who has been commenting on your post, in agreement with your initial feelings of it being a copy of the LP branding, IS liga privada! He is the man behind the LP brand, so rest assured, you were obviously not off the mark. Glad to see you came back, don't let the few, ruin the many great BOTL's on this site.


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## TJB (Dec 10, 2012)

Glad you decided to stay. This forum is almost as addicting as the cigars we smoke! By the way I had a genesis cigar last night and you know what? It was good!


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## alecshawn (Jun 24, 2012)

If they taste like a liga #9 or T 52....then they are crap. Those are the two most over rated smokes that i can think of. If i were to try to copy a cigar..( i have never had a genesis) but i think one would try (and of course fail) to copy a Padron or Fuente smoke. That cant be done...but i would give kudos to whomever tried.
Note: After seeing the pics....the OP is correct..certainly a copy. Just a bad choice of stogies to copy.


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## atbat16 (Feb 6, 2013)

alecshawn said:


> If they taste like a liga #9 or T 52....then they are crap. Those are the two most over rated smokes that i can think of. If i were to try to copy a cigar..( i have never had a genesis) but i think one would try (and of course fail) to copy a Padron or Fuente smoke. That cant be done...but i would give kudos to whomever tried.
> Note: After seeing the pics....the OP is correct..certainly a copy. Just a bad choice of stogies to copy.


Shawn what padrons or Fuentes would you recommend in the no. 9 or t52 price range?


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## huskers (Oct 2, 2012)

yep, lets write off all cigars that mention cuba in their description at all.................Pisses me off that non cuban cigars think they can anyway be related to cuba.


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## Stillinger (Jan 29, 2013)

Can't say I agree on Ligas being overrated.


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## alecshawn (Jun 24, 2012)

atbat16 said:


> Shawn what padrons or Fuentes would you recommend in the no. 9 or t52 price range?


At the B&M i goto...both liga #9 and t52 can run around 10-14.00...So, i would recommend the same Fuentes regardless of price..Opus X xxx runs 12.95, Padron 1964 Exclusivo runs around 10-11. Anejo's close to 10-12 Hemingways, depending on size..10-11. A pardon 6000 also runs even lessat 7-8ish. ANY, of those knocks the socks off of Drew Estate smokes. Frankly..Even the Gran Reserva line. I.E. Flor fina 858's.
If you are willing to spend 20.00 the Padron family reserve...85th is 20.00 give or take a couple of bucks depending on where you get it.
Really, in the end. Most Fuentes and Honestly, ALL Padrons are simply a better smoke than the Ligas.


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## alecshawn (Jun 24, 2012)

Stillinger said:


> Can't say I agree on Ligas being overrated.


And i respect that. This is all our own personal opinions. Mine is no more important than yours.


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## splattttttt (May 17, 2012)

alecshawn said:


> And i respect that. This is all our own personal opinions. Mine is no more important than yours.


Agree to the fullest. For example; I smoked one of my favorite $2.00 cigar the other day and it just blew me away. Don't know if it had anything to do with planetary alignment, or the fact that it was Friday? But it was as good as any Padron I've ever smoked. Honest!


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## Stillinger (Jan 29, 2013)

alecshawn said:


> And i respect that. This is all our own personal opinions. Mine is no more important than yours.


Completely agree


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## Maluther45 (Feb 20, 2013)

Ohio is very lucky. I'm in Illinois and regardless if I'm in Chicago or suburbs or further away the pricing is vastly different. 

Any liga is around 10. Opus start at 30 to 50 and padron 64 is 20 just to get the smallest vitola. You can't even find an anejo. I've been to the two largest and "best" shops according to people I e talked to and those don't even carry opus. 

I just had to out that out there because I can't believe how much my state must suck for the pricing to be that different. I've only ever been to another b&m in Florida and the prices were close to home.


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## atbat16 (Feb 6, 2013)

alecshawn said:


> At the B&M i goto...both liga #9 and t52 can run around 10-14.00...So, i would recommend the same Fuentes regardless of price..Opus X xxx runs 12.95, Padron 1964 Exclusivo runs around 10-11. Anejo's close to 10-12 Hemingways, depending on size..10-11. A pardon 6000 also runs even lessat 7-8ish. ANY, of those knocks the socks off of Drew Estate smokes. Frankly..Even the Gran Reserva line. I.E. Flor fina 858's.
> If you are willing to spend 20.00 the Padron family reserve...85th is 20.00 give or take a couple of bucks depending on where you get it.
> Really, in the end. Most Fuentes and Honestly, ALL Padrons are simply a better smoke than the Ligas.


I look forward to trying these sticks, can't think one way or another without experiencing for myself.


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## sychodelix (Mar 20, 2013)

So what was the good cigar? Don't keep us in suspense!



splattttttt said:


> Agree to the fullest. For example; I smoked one of my favorite $2.00 cigar the other day and it just blew me away. Don't know if it had anything to do with planetary alignment, or the fact that it was Friday? But it was as good as any Padron I've ever smoked. Honest!


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## ShortFuse (Jun 6, 2011)

I'm not a huge supporter of the LP Unicos. They seem unreasonably HTF. This is coming from a guy that's been smoking for 3 years and cracked several codes to HTF cigars. I was at the point of hating LPs and LP devotees, but I think I've turned a corner. To each their own. I recently purchased a box of Undercrowns just for something economical to smoke while my better stock rests. Seeing the comparison being drawn between the RB Genesis and the LPs, I may pick some up and see what all the buzz is about. Not only are they readily available, but they are also half the price. I see that as them selling twice as many, so long as they live up to the bill. 

I will report back with my findings in a couple of weeks, after the purchase and acclimation. If they're half as good as a LP, then they're alright. Heck, they compete pricewise with Diesels and the more pedestrian Fuentes.


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## splattttttt (May 17, 2012)

sychodelix said:


> So what was the good cigar? Don't keep us in suspense!


Goody for you for asking. Garn Habano Asteca... Dry boxed at 47%rh for twenty days. Good non the less, but as it was, simply fabulous!


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## ProbateGeek (Oct 13, 2010)

I will not try the Ramon Buesos again. When they first came out I was as interested as the next guy (they presented well), but of the 5-er I picked up two were unsmokeable. These were easily the thinnest, most fragile wrappers I've ever seen on a cigar - on all five. Two pretty much exploded on being cut, two made it through the cut but then fell apart midsmoke, and only one (the fourth attempt, I believe) was I able to both cut and smoke to the end. I think the flavors in the one I was able to smoke were agreeable, but by then I was so pissed off I can't recall really enjoying the smoke all that much.

Like I said in an earlier post, The Project made it to my "do not buy" list right away - despite the fact that I'm the only one I know of who experienced this wrapper problem. I'm down to my last, one, lone LP, but I'll take the one LP over a 5-er of The Project any day.


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## sychodelix (Mar 20, 2013)

splattttttt said:


> Goody for you for asking. Gran Habano Azteca... Dry boxed at 47%rh for twenty days. Good non the less, but as it was, simply fabulous!


FTFY

Great, since Gran Habano #3 is one of my favorites anyway, so I've been keeping an eye out for that one. Will grab some next time I order. Thanks!


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## splattttttt (May 17, 2012)

sychodelix said:


> FTFY
> 
> Great, since Gran Habano #3 is one of my favorites anyway, so I've been keeping an eye out for that one. Will grab some next time I order. Thanks!


mine was the Fuerte. Cigars Int. is the go to for the 2 buck a stick grab


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## kra961 (May 16, 2012)

ProbateGeek said:


> I will not try the Ramon Buesos again. When they first came out I was as interested as the next guy (they presented well), but of the 5-er I picked up two were unsmokeable. These were easily the thinnest, most fragile wrappers I've ever seen on a cigar - on all five. Two pretty much exploded on being cut, two made it through the cut but then fell apart midsmoke, and only one (the fourth attempt, I believe) was I able to both cut and smoke to the end. I think the flavors in the one I was able to smoke were agreeable, but by then I was so pissed off I can't recall really enjoying the smoke all that much.
> 
> Like I said in an earlier post, The Project made it to my "do not buy" list right away - despite the fact that I'm the only one I know of who experienced this wrapper problem. I'm down to my last, one, lone LP, but I'll take the one LP over a 5-er of The Project any day.


I have to say out of the box's of them I have smoked I've only had one that had a problem tight draw but past that I really enjoy them in fact I'm having one now as I type this. Not arguing just sayin


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## ProbateGeek (Oct 13, 2010)

kra961 said:


> I have to say out of the box's of them I have smoked I've only had one that had a problem tight draw but past that I really enjoy them in fact I'm having one now as I type this. Not arguing just sayin


Yeah, I think I did enjoy the flavor of the one that smoked well. But I swear these things had near rice-paper-thin wrappers. I've never seen anything like it before or since. And no one else has complained, so I just drew the unlucky lot I guess.


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