# Somebody explain this Boveda video to me...



## Bizumpy (Nov 14, 2014)

I see lots of people here who love Heartfelt beads which are supposed to maintain a specific humidity like Boveda packs do.

However, this comparison ad video for Boveda shows the Heartfelt beads significantly over-humidifying a container.






Can someone explain what's going on here? thx


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## JIK (Sep 4, 2014)

Heartfelt beads are great if used correctly. I'm sure they over saturated the beads before placing them in the container. 

Never really liked companies that have to trash there competitors to show that they are better. A good product will speak for itself. Shady move by Boveda IMO.


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## Bizumpy (Nov 14, 2014)

I don't mind them showing how other products fail to measure up, but yeah if they deliberately misused a competitor's product then that's very shady.


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## NorCalJaybird (Sep 2, 2014)

JIK said:


> Heartfelt beads are great if used correctly. I'm sure they over saturated the beads before placing them in the container.
> 
> Never really liked companies that have to trash there competitors to show that they are better. A good product will speak for itself. Shady move by Boveda IMO.


Maybe do your own video.... Just a thought  I am personally at the point where I trust the Boveda over the hygrometer. Maybe I am a fool. Who knows.

Cheers
Jay


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## JIK (Sep 4, 2014)

NorCalJaybird said:


> Maybe do your own video.... Just a thought  I am personally at the point where I trust the Boveda over the hygrometer. Maybe I am a fool. Who knows.
> 
> Cheers
> Jay


Not sure why I would make my own video....... Don't misenterprate my response. Boveda packs work, in fact I like and use their product. What I don't like is the bashing of other products, especially one that has been proven and has a great rep in the industry. They are either knowingly using it incorrectly, or don't know how to use it. Heartfelt beads work very well. They will only release an excess amount of humidity if they are over saturated.

Either way it's not a big deal, I'm not upset about it, just find it kinda shady.


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## Bizumpy (Nov 14, 2014)

^^^ I too didn't understand the prior poster's response. I'm a fan of Boveda packs and, if they really work, I'd be a fan of Heartfelt beads. 

It is interesting that Boveda disabled the comments section of the Youtube vid in question.


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## Billb1960 (Oct 10, 2014)

So we're just going to assume that they're not using the HF as directed because why? What if they are using them exactly as directed?

In fact I believe that the gentleman in the video is actually a member here @cprsquared. Why don't you PM him and ask him yourself?


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## gtechva (Mar 9, 2014)

Billb1960 said:


> So we're just going to assume that they're not using the HF as directed because why? What if they are using them exactly as directed?
> 
> In fact I believe that the gentleman in the video is actually a member here @cprsquared. Why don't you PM him and ask him yourself?


Seems like HF would have went out of business, unless there are enough goobers that want their cigars ruined. All of those products must work to some degree for these people to keep their doors open. Oh, the drama.:drama:


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## deadrift (Nov 4, 2014)

gtechva said:


> .... Oh, the drama.:drama:


 true, true

Pretty tough to tell, but I can't see any white beads in the HF tube. If that's the case, and the tube was soaked before the test, those results make sense to me. If the HF directions were followed so that only 60- 70% of the beads were wet (clear), with the results shown on the video it's hard to imagine how HF could still be in business. I can only say that my results with my calibrated hygrometers have been vastly different, and I'm not throwing my beads out yet. So there you have it...


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## Billb1960 (Oct 10, 2014)

The first response to this post was the assertion that Boveda was intentionally sabotaging the competition. All I'm saying is you can't make that assumption unless you have more facts.


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## Trackmyer (Jun 6, 2014)

I do not think ill of Boveda making the video. When you look at the number of new cigar smokers that come in to the hobby using gels, foams, and other such devices. Questions on RH control are on every forum. I think Boveda simply cut to the chase and made a video showing folks how their product stand above others.

Did they saturate the beads first? Don't know, but look at it from the point that it could be done. Try to over saturate a Boveda pack for the same test. As a many year Boveda user, and short time HF beads user I can admit that I too had a learning curve when it came to proper use of beads. Between drying beads in the oven, drying in the microwave, it took a bit of trial and error, along with patience and the help of knowledgable brothers here. Boveda however has no learning curve. They are essentially dummy proof.

I understand the opinion of folks who dislike putting down the competition, I just don't feel that was the case here. No bad words were ever used in the description, just layed out the test and did it.

This will help clear the water for newer folks before they follow advice from forum users who really don't know, or have tried a four way comparison of different products on the market. 
@cprsquared, great video Charlie, still waiting for the release of that BIG Boveda pack for coolers and wineadors. I will be all over it when it hits the market.


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## cprsquared (Feb 13, 2013)

Trackmyer said:


> I do not think ill of Boveda making the video. When you look at the number of new cigar smokers that come in to the hobby using gels, foams, and other such devices. Questions on RH control are on every forum. I think Boveda simply cut to the chase and made a video showing folks how their product stand above others.
> 
> Did they saturate the beads first? Don't know, but look at it from the point that it could be done. Try to over saturate a Boveda pack for the same test. As a many year Boveda user, and short time HF beads user I can admit that I too had a learning curve when it came to proper use of beads. Between drying beads in the oven, drying in the microwave, it took a bit of trial and error, along with patience and the help of knowledgable brothers here. Boveda however has no learning curve. They are essentially dummy proof.
> 
> ...


Thanks @Trackmyer. We yanked that video not long after we posted it because what we didn't show well was our method or a longer explanation of the actual capability of beads. As a result, some people were a little heated, because they've figured out a way to make beads work for them.

What the world knows for sure is that you can over-wet gel/crystals/beads and that was the primary point of the video - that you can over-do it with water. To address your point on Boveda humidifying beyond the RH on the pack, they can only do that under one condition: They absorb their max amount of water, which is usually due to "recharging" them. That, along with "recharging" introducing hassle and maintenance, is why we don't recommend it. But if you did fatten one up too much, it just needs to lose a little water and then it'll be perfect again.

Because we don't believe we need to be bashful with facts, we'll release another video once we can present it in a way that's informed by the solid data we're accumulating now. It's a bit of a process with time lapse and video editing, but as the Global Leader in 2-way Humidity Control, we'd be shirking our duty if we didn't inform the public of what they can/can't expect out of products that make the same claims as Boveda.

We'll be back with a more thorough video sometime in the first quarter. In the meantime, thank you and everyone else for your business, we look forward to releasing a number of exciting products in 2015, all with the explicit intent of making cigar aging with Boveda as simple as it is perfect. Cheers! Charlie (edited because I had a paragraph out of order)


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## garublador (Jun 5, 2014)

Billb1960 said:


> The first response to this post was the assertion that Boveda was intentionally sabotaging the competition. All I'm saying is you can't make that assumption unless you have more facts.


You can't assume they didn't sabotage the competition without facts, either. In this case all we have is evidence that it was sabotaged, either intentionally or unintentionally. Many people have used the beads without seeing that type of behavior, and not just in the cigar industry, but in the museum industry as well. What's more likely, museum curators are, and have been for years, using a method of humidity control that doesn't work to protect their art, or that the beads were misused in a YouTube video promoting a competing technology?


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## NorCalJaybird (Sep 2, 2014)

JIK said:


> Not sure why I would make my own video....... Don't misenterprate my response. Boveda packs work, in fact I like and use their product. What I don't like is the bashing of other products, especially one that has been proven and has a great rep in the industry. They are either knowingly using it incorrectly, or don't know how to use it. Heartfelt beads work very well. They will only release an excess amount of humidity if they are over saturated.
> 
> Either way it's not a big deal, I'm not upset about it, just find it kinda shady.





Bizumpy said:


> ^^^ I too didn't understand the prior poster's response. I'm a fan of Boveda packs and, if they really work, I'd be a fan of Heartfelt beads.
> 
> It is interesting that Boveda disabled the comments section of the Youtube vid in question.


What I am saying is if you feel like they are misusing or being shady about it then make your own video. Do it as you would want the test to be done and prove to yourself and everyone else the they are/were misusing the competitors products. Ya know kind of a "myth Busters" sort of thing. Man that's all I was saying nothing more, nothing less.

Enjoy the morning gents! We have Blue skies for the first time in almost a month!

Cheers
Jay


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## Billb1960 (Oct 10, 2014)

garublador said:


> You can't assume they didn't sabotage the competition without facts, either. In this case all we have is evidence that it was sabotaged, either intentionally or unintentionally. Many people have used the beads without seeing that type of behavior, and not just in the cigar industry, but in the museum industry as well. What's more likely, museum curators are, and have been for years, using a method of humidity control that doesn't work to protect their art, or that the beads were misused in a YouTube video promoting a competing technology?


Again, you are assuming facts not in evidence. There is absolutely no way to tell whether the HF beads were "sabotaged" or not.


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## cprsquared (Feb 13, 2013)

Billb1960 said:


> Again, you are assuming facts not in evidence. There is absolutely no way to tell whether the HF beads were "sabotaged" or not.


Thanks Bill.

To go a little further for anyone who thinks we "sabotaged" beads. One doesn't need to "sabotage" beads to make them not work. You just need to add too much/little water than the directions state. This is easy to do, because a "spray" of water from one bottle may not be the same for another guy's bottle. Or someone's estimate of wetting 50%, 60% or 70% of the beads may be different than another guy's. The point was to not only contrast the effort/guesswork of beads to the simplicity of Boveda, but also to show that beads can give you too high an RH even when you're following the directions (because it's subjective to size of spray and your % of wetting estimate), vs Boveda that will never over-humidify, no matter how many you use, assuming that they haven't been "recharged" too far (which is part of the reason we don't recommend recharging).

The point of the first video and better explained in an upcoming video is that even following the directions, it can still accidentally be done wrong.


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## Billb1960 (Oct 10, 2014)

cprsquared said:


> Thanks Bill.
> 
> To go a little further for anyone who thinks we "sabotaged" beads. One doesn't need to "sabotage" beads to make them not work. You just need to add too much/little water than the directions state. This is easy to do, because a "spray" of water from one bottle may not be the same for another guy's bottle. Or someone's estimate of wetting 50%, 60% or 70% of the beads may be different than another guy's. The point was to not only contrast the effort/guesswork of beads to the simplicity of Boveda, but also to show that beads can give you too high an RH even when you're following the directions (because it's subjective to size of spray and your % of wetting estimate), vs Boveda that will never over-humidify, no matter how many you use, assuming that they haven't been "recharged" too far (which is part of the reason we don't recommend recharging).
> 
> The point of the first video and better explained in an upcoming video is that even following the directions, it can still accidentally be done wrong.


And I think the fact that this discussion is even possible further demonstrates your point. While the HF beads may be miles ahead of green florist foam the fact is you can still screw it up and over humidify your cigars something which it isn't possible to do with Boveda.


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## JIK (Sep 4, 2014)

Billb1960 said:


> Again, you are assuming facts not in evidence. There is absolutely no way to tell whether the HF beads were "sabotaged" or not.


I never stated they were intentionally sabotaged. I only proposed that they were over saturated. Whether it was intentional or unintentional was unknown.

Until now of course, if you read the post by the Boveda rep, their intention was to show that HF could be over saturated, so they did purposely over saturate them. The video didnt clearly show what they say they were trying to represent. Instead it showed Boveda working and HF not working. If you have used HF before you would know that they work very well if used correctly so clearly upon watching the video, one could assume that something was done incorrectly.


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## cprsquared (Feb 13, 2013)

JIK said:


> I never stated they were intentionally sabotaged. I only proposed that they were over saturated. Whether it was intentional or unintentional was unknown.
> 
> Until now of course, if you read the post by the Boveda rep, their intention was to show that HF could be over saturated, so they did purposely over saturate them. The video didnt clearly show what they say they were trying to represent. Instead it showed Boveda working and HF not working. If you have used HF before you would know that they work very well if used correctly so clearly upon watching the video, one could assume that something was done incorrectly.


Thank you Jonas, that was exactly the point of our video - to show that following the directions can get bad results for reasons of incorrect estimates on how much is a "spray" or what's 50, 60 or 70% wet. We didn't do a good job of explaining the setup and reason for the test in the last video, we will in the next one. Cheers! Charlie


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## garublador (Jun 5, 2014)

cprsquared said:


> Thanks Bill.
> 
> To go a little further for anyone who thinks we "sabotaged" beads. One doesn't need to "sabotage" beads to make them not work.


Using them incorrectly is sabotaging them. Your point seems to be that beads don't work, assuming you use them wrong, but Boveda packs do work, assuming you use them right. That's hardly a fair comparison. Rather than talking about the ease of use you're comparing functionality under different conditions. Here's a place where you suggest beads can't absorb water, emit something other than water (though you don't say what impurities might be present), will damage cigars if they're placed too close, require "activation," will cause mold in your cigars, and somehow won't work at all if not in some unspecified temperature range:

What Makes Boveda Different? | Boveda® Official Site | Find Boveda Here!

You have a good product. There's no need for this type of marketing.


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## demuths1770 (Jan 2, 2014)

First off here is my funny to lighten this thread up some..... Brian Glenn of cigar obsession SOAKS his beads and they work just fine lol of now that I got that out I love boveda. It has been a life saver since I got back into cigars and was using gel. Only down fall was over the sumer my packs needed to remove more humidity than release and when I got the packs they where fully charged and not removing humidity. Once I discharged the packs all was good. Now going with beads its not so much about how much is soaked or not for it to work. It all depends on the ambient humidity. If the outside humidity is 75% and you have 70% of the beads soaked your gonna need to dry them out quicker than if you had 50% soaked. Like wise if the humidity outside was 50% and 50% of the beads where soaked you will be rehumidify more than if 70% where soaked. Boveda is more idiot proof than beads for a beginner. The point of the video is to show its idiot proof. If you did not have instructions or know anything about beads that person would more than likely soak the beads. Only saving grace of over soaked beads is as the humidor is opened it would lose humiditiy and some beads would dry out and begin to drop the humidity.


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## cprsquared (Feb 13, 2013)

garublador said:


> Using them incorrectly is sabotaging them. Your point seems to be that beads don't work, assuming you use them wrong, but Boveda packs do work, assuming you use them right. That's hardly a fair comparison. Rather than talking about the ease of use you're comparing functionality under different conditions. Here's a place where you suggest beads can't absorb water, emit something other than water (though you don't say what impurities might be present), will damage cigars if they're placed too close, require "activation," will cause mold in your cigars, and somehow won't work at all if not in some unspecified temperature range:
> 
> What Makes Boveda Different? | Boveda® Official Site | Find Boveda Here!
> 
> You have a good product. There's no need for this type of marketing.


Hey Scott, everything we mention on that page are stories we've heard from people who've used other products in the past, pointing out how expensive it can be not using Boveda.

As for the using right/wrong and what does/doesn't work: All anyone has to know for Boveda is the minimum to use for a certain space, because there's no maximum. Unless you're using way too few, it'll always work (and may still work with too few, just not for as long). Contrasted to the best efforts to follow bead directions, someone's estimate of % of beads wetted and/or what constitutes spraying/soaking can be different. Put a way I haven't put it before, *performance of anything other than Boveda relies on your interpretation and execution of the directions* and whether it really has 2-way capabilities. Because of that, we don't feel it's unfair to point out (and make a video about) trying to diligently follow the directions. While you might consider Boveda to have "directions" on how many to use, counting the number of packs is a bit easier than guesstimating or taking the time to weigh the appropriate number of beads.

Clearly, we understand people have been satisfied/thrilled with beads. My mistakes were not showing the setup or expressing what we were showing (no matter the results).

Thank you also for the kind words and your business. Merry Christmas! Charlie


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## MadMatt (Jan 20, 2013)

It's called Marketing...


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## MDSPHOTO (Sep 10, 2013)

:deadhorse::deadhorse::deadhorse:


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## Lee M (Nov 12, 2014)

JIK said:


> ...If you have used HF before you would know that they work very well if used correctly so clearly upon watching the video, one could assume that something was done incorrectly.


 yeah so do condoms.....


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## JIK (Sep 4, 2014)

Lee M said:


> yeah so do condoms.....


Ummmmmm....... Ok


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## LGHT (Oct 12, 2009)

Business Development Director is another name for "Marketing, and scamming cheater". 

This video is a bunch of crap trying to make a point that doesn't exist. Why do you think they disabled the comments from the video?? Clearly they didn't use the beads correctly and are simply trying to line their corporate business development pockets by trying to bash the little guy's product. These ass hats should be Ashamed that they had to stoop so low. I mean seriously aren't you're business development pockets filled enough already??? What's next a commercial with some circus animals pissing on some packets to show you how easy they are to use???


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## demuths1770 (Jan 2, 2014)

LGHT said:


> Business Development Director is another name for "Marketing, and scamming cheater".
> 
> This video is a bunch of crap trying to make a point that doesn't exist. Why do you think they disabled the comments from the video?? Clearly they didn't use the beads correctly and are simply trying to line their corporate business development pockets by trying to bash the little guy's product. These ass hats should be Ashamed that they had to stoop so low. I mean seriously aren't you're business development pockets filled enough already??? What's next a commercial with some circus animals pissing on some packets to show you how easy they are to use???


the point of the video was to show the ease of use to a beginners which a beginner may soak there beads


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## LGHT (Oct 12, 2009)

demuths1770 said:


> the point of the video was to show the ease of use to a beginners which a beginner may soak there beads


Ahh ok that explains it all. I thought the video was a "humidification grudge match" designed to scare new consumers into not purchasing a competitors product. Especially since the video didn't specifically clarify that the test was clearly bias and never mentioned they intentionally misused the competitors product to make a point that doesn't exist.

I just want to go out and by some boveda packs now since the company is so full of honesty and integrity.


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## Billb1960 (Oct 10, 2014)




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## cprsquared (Feb 13, 2013)

LGHT said:


> Business Development Director is another name for "Marketing, and scamming cheater".
> 
> This video is a bunch of crap trying to make a point that doesn't exist. Why do you think they disabled the comments from the video?? Clearly they didn't use the beads correctly and are simply trying to line their corporate business development pockets by trying to bash the little guy's product. These ass hats should be Ashamed that they had to stoop so low. I mean seriously aren't you're business development pockets filled enough already??? What's next a commercial with some circus animals pissing on some packets to show you how easy they are to use???


 @LGHT, I'd put "Marketing, Scamming Cheater" on my business card, but it won't fit!

In as much serious as my usual personality can accumulate, my apologies if we offended you with the video. As I've been admitting here for the last couple days, as the first comparison video we've ever done, I should have done a better job with what we were showing (that following the directions of refillable gel/crystal/beads can get mixed results) and showing the preparation - that we were following the directions. The comments kept ignoring my attempts to explain what I should have explained in the video: 1. The effort it takes to follow the directions, 2. Diligently following directions can still get mixed results.

We didn't want to nuke the video because we thought that was the weakest thing to do.

We don't have enough left in 2014's marketing budget for circus animals, but I do have enough to send you some free Boveda. We don't believe it's possible to have a surplus of Christmas cheer, so we're happy to have some show up on your doorstep. Fire an email to [email protected] if you'd like to take us up on it. In any case, have a very Merry Christmas and for holding us to a high standard. Cheers! Charlie


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## Billb1960 (Oct 10, 2014)

cprsquared said:


> @LGHT, I'd put "Marketing, Scamming Cheater" on my business card, but it won't fit!
> 
> In as much serious as my usual personality can accumulate, my apologies if we offended you with the video. As I've been admitting here for the last couple days, as the first comparison video we've ever done, I should have done a better job with what we were showing (that following the directions of refillable gel/crystal/beads can get mixed results) and showing the preparation - that we were following the directions. The comments kept ignoring my attempts to explain what I should have explained in the video: 1. The effort it takes to follow the directions, 2. Diligently following directions can still get mixed results.
> 
> ...


So in 2015 can I order a zebra?


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## cprsquared (Feb 13, 2013)

Shhhh! We'll announce our herbivore line of products when they're ready!


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## Billb1960 (Oct 10, 2014)

cprsquared said:


> Shhhh! We'll announce our herbivore line of products when they're ready!


:thumb:


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## Trackmyer (Jun 6, 2014)

cprsquared said:


> @LGHT, I'd put "Marketing, Scamming Cheater" on my business card, but it won't fit!
> 
> In as much serious as my usual personality can accumulate, my apologies if we offended you with the video. As I've been admitting here for the last couple days, as the first comparison video we've ever done, I should have done a better job with what we were showing (that following the directions of refillable gel/crystal/beads can get mixed results) and showing the preparation - that we were following the directions. The comments kept ignoring my attempts to explain what I should have explained in the video: 1. The effort it takes to follow the directions, 2. Diligently following directions can still get mixed results.
> 
> ...


Your a class act Charlie!

A fella comes in here, both guns blazing. Sending flames all over the joint, and you not only keep your cool. 
You offer to send him free product. Well done.

Happy Holidays to you sir.


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## Gdaddy (Sep 20, 2012)

LGHT said:


> Business Development Director is another name for "Marketing, and scamming cheater".
> 
> This video is a bunch of crap trying to make a point that doesn't exist. Why do you think they disabled the comments from the video?? Clearly they didn't use the beads correctly and are simply trying to line their corporate business development pockets by trying to bash the little guy's product. These ass hats should be Ashamed that they had to stoop so low. I mean seriously aren't you're business development pockets filled enough already??? What's next a commercial with some circus animals pissing on some packets to show you how easy they are to use???


Would you make this comment straight to his face in person? I doubt it. Of all the comments made I see only one "asshat". You can make your point perfectly clear without resorting to name calling. Bad form.


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## Billb1960 (Oct 10, 2014)

Sacred cows die hard


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## Gdaddy (Sep 20, 2012)

Boveda is a class act. Hands down the finest humidification device on the market.

What the video shows is accurate and if you take the beads *as the instructions suggest* and spray them with water you will spike the humidity. I said this long ago. You'll also damage the beads.

However, if the beads are used correctly they can work very well. No water should ever be sprayed directly on them. I fault the people from heartfelt for putting it in their instructions. No silicon bead including kitty litter should ever come directly in contact with water.


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## Trackmyer (Jun 6, 2014)

Gdaddy said:


> Boveda is a class act. Hands down the finest humidification device on the market.
> 
> What the video shows is accurate and if you take the beads *as the instructions suggest* and spray them with water you will spike the humidity. I said this long ago. You'll also damage the beads.
> 
> However, if the beads are used correctly they can work very well. No water should ever be sprayed directly on them. I fault the people from heartfelt for putting it in their instructions. No silicon bead including kitty litter should ever come directly in contact with water.


And this is one of the fine fella's who helped me understand HF beads and the error of me reading their instructions. Thanks again, Don.


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## Emperor Zurg (May 6, 2013)

Gdaddy said:


> No silicon bead including kitty litter should ever come directly in contact with water.


I told my cat that months ago but AFAIK she's still spritzing her beads. Typical female: she just doesn't listen to me.
Tried to get her to read the threads on the subject but she's more interested in batting at the pointer on the screen.










But seriously, is this thread STILL going?? It's like the Energizer bunny. It keeps going and going...:frusty:


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## Haroon (Nov 20, 2014)

cprsquared, you mentioned some new products in 2015 any chance for a wineador sized pack?


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## cprsquared (Feb 13, 2013)

Haroon said:


> cprsquared, you mentioned some new products in 2015 any chance for a wineador sized pack?


I can quietly confirm we're testing a version of Boveda with large containers/humidors/winedors specifically in mind. We just might be able to make an announcement in about 45 days.


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## demuths1770 (Jan 2, 2014)

LGHT said:


> Ahh ok that explains it all. I thought the video was a "humidification grudge match" designed to scare new consumers into not purchasing a competitors product. Especially since the video didn't specifically clarify that the test was clearly bias and never mentioned they intentionally misused the competitors product to make a point that doesn't exist.
> 
> I just want to go out and by some boveda packs now since the company is so full of honesty and integrity.


Its a simple product to use which is the main point. I don't think therre is any reason to start name calling on a product that just wants to help the n00b with humidity especially w how hard the gel is pushed. As a n00b I fell into that trap and it was a waste. Puff pointed me into the right direction. I give boveda and @cprsquared two huge thumbs up


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## SeanTheEvans (Dec 13, 2013)

cprsquared said:


> @LGHT, I'd put "Marketing, Scamming Cheater" on my business card, but it won't fit!
> 
> *In as much serious as my usual personality can accumulate, my apologies if we offended you with the video.* As I've been admitting here for the last couple days, as the first comparison video we've ever done,* I should have done a better job with what we were showing* (that following the directions of refillable gel/crystal/beads can get mixed results) and showing the preparation - that we were following the directions. The comments kept ignoring my attempts to explain what I should have explained in the video: 1. *The effort it takes to follow the directions*, 2. Diligently following directions can still get mixed results.
> *
> We didn't want to nuke the video because we thought that was the weakest thing to do. *


What I gather here is that you are making a joke of an apology, then admit that you put up a video that isn't very clear, but refuse to remove it for fear of looking "weak"?

You then follow up by repeating that following instructions is hard? And offer to further market your product by sending it to someone for free rather than address the actual issue at hand (not that @LGHT doesn't have an adequate humidification device).

Then somehow people think you're a hero of sorts here? I'd agree, it's a damn shady move putting up things intentionally misrepresenting competition, but then not correcting the situation except for some explanation (advertisement) on this forum about how the other products don't work and yours actually does.

You CAN misuse Boveda if I'm correct. You could submerge it in water, or puncture it, or heck- if the humidity is too high, it will (as has been mentioned) stop absorbing the excess, allowing WHAT? high humidity, just like you showed "other devices" allowing.... crazy eh?



demuths1770 said:


> Its a simple product to use which is the main point. I don't think therre is any reason to start name calling on a product that just wants to help the n00b with humidity especially w how hard the gel is pushed. As a n00b I fell into that trap and it was a waste. Puff pointed me into the right direction. I give boveda and @cprsquared two huge thumbs up


I think that Boveda is simple is NOT the main point. If that was the point, you could just show someone throwing in Boveda, and it working! No other examples needed. But to show "what will happen to your cigars if you use something other than Boveda"- WHICH IS AN INCORRECT BLANKET STATEMENT.



Trackmyer said:


> Your a class act Charlie!
> 
> A fella comes in here, both guns blazing. Sending flames all over the joint, and you not only keep your cool.
> You offer to send him free product. Well done.
> ...


I think it's easy to keep your cool when you're the one wrongly bashing another product, and then make a joke out of anyone who argues otherwise. The big bully rarely loses his temper when he's taking lunch money. I mean, do you really think that "all of these other humidification devices except for Boveda, only do one thing- which is give off 100% humidity until they are dried out." I don't think that to be true, now is it?

I think you guys are misinterpreting what the issue is here. Nobody is arguing that Boveda works, but it's pretty low to start saying that the same humidification that loads of brothers here have been easily and successfully using is inadequate. No good reason to ish on the small guy - and yeah, they wrote "spritz" or "spray" the beads, and we know now that you shouldn't. Not the end of the world.

I have both products myself, but keep seeing this come up over and over again and the marketing side of Boveda doesn't sit very well for me. I certainly wouldn't buy any more, but thankfully I can recharge them (against manufacturer's recommendation, of course).


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## Bizumpy (Nov 14, 2014)

For my own edification, if you don't spray Heartfelt beads with water, what do you do?


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## JIK (Sep 4, 2014)

Bizumpy said:


> For my own edification, if you don't spray Heartfelt beads with water, what do you do?


Heartfelt Industries Cigar Humidor Humidity Beads Set Up


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## SeanTheEvans (Dec 13, 2013)

Bizumpy said:


> For my own edification, if you don't spray Heartfelt beads with water, what do you do?


Well, the most important question is what the ambient humidity is. If you have a humidor that you keep in a home where the humidity is 80%, you don't want to wet the beads at all, as they should be dry in order to remove moisture from the air to bring your container to a lower, more desirable RH. If you live somewhere and the ambient humidity is low, you might want to "charge" the beads, so that they will have moisture which they can give off to acclimate their surroundings to the desired RH. This can be done in a number of ways, detailed on the HF website, although passively (same methods as recharging bovedas) is recommended if you want to keep the beads from fracturing.


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## demuths1770 (Jan 2, 2014)

SeanTheEvans said:


> Well, the most important question is what the ambient humidity is. If you have a humidor that you keep in a home where the humidity is 80%, you don't want to wet the beads at all, as they should be dry in order to remove moisture from the air to bring your container to a lower, more desirable RH. If you live somewhere and the ambient humidity is low, you might want to "charge" the beads, so that they will have moisture which they can give off to acclimate their surroundings to the desired RH. This can be done in a number of ways, detailed on the HF website, although passively (same methods as recharging bovedas) is recommended if you want to keep the beads from fracturing.


If more explanation was used in the boveda video this is the point that was was proven. There is more thought and work into beads. As a noon you want to keep your cigars at the right rh and to do that moister is needed so a noon may wet the beads when the humidity is 80%. And offering the free boveda was because he stated he was going to go purchase some. The statement beads don't work is wrong but rather beads not usped properly will not work is a better statement. Depending how the beads where used it dose prove that if miss used beads can be bad and that Bryan Glenn of cigar obsession was in fact wrong


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## gtechva (Mar 9, 2014)

All of this could have been avoided by a disclaimer stating the video proves brand B, when used properly works. Where as brand H, when used wrong, doesn't work well at all.

You see it all the time on tv, especially late night/early morning.

"We put a spoon full of oil in our frying pan and the chicken is delicious. We used turpentine in the competitors pan and the chicken was ruined. Buy our frying pan."


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## demuths1770 (Jan 2, 2014)

gtechva said:


> All of this could have been avoided by a disclaimer stating the video proves brand B, when used properly works. Where as brand H, when used wrong, doesn't work well at all.
> 
> You see it all the time on tv, especially late night/early morning.
> 
> "We put a spoon full of oil in our frying pan and the chicken is delicious. We used turpentine in the competitors pan and the chicken was ruined. Buy our frying pan."


they have already stated the video was done wrong. i do find it interesting that when the beads are used wrong they over humdidfy soooooo that proves how wrong cigar obsession really is. i just dont see why when a company comes out and says they did something wrong we need to keep talking them down. they did prove one good fact that we already knew that gel is no good and they also showed what happens when beads are used wrong as well.


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## MadMatt (Jan 20, 2013)

:smoke2:


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## SeanTheEvans (Dec 13, 2013)

demuths1770 said:


> they have already stated the video was done wrong. i do find it interesting that when the beads are used wrong they over humdidfy soooooo that proves how wrong cigar obsession really is. * i just dont see why when a company comes out and says they did something wrong we need to keep talking them down. * they did prove one good fact that we already knew that gel is no good and they also showed what happens when beads are used wrong as well.


But the company hasn't pulled the video, hasn't changed the description to explain what they really did, and it continues to promote their product as working stating that "Boveda is the only product that actually stops adding moisture when it reaches the desired humidity. " That simply isn't true.

Also, I'm absolutely POSITIVE that Boveda can be used wrong too. If we want to assume the user has no clue what they are dong - I don't see any directions saying that you must "remove your boveda packet from those plastic bags they come in". So if I just toss a bunch of Boveda I buy at a B&M into a humidor or cooler, without doing ANYTHING, I don't think they will work properly. So much for idiot-proof.

Again, I think HF & Boveda work great, but this is just like a Presidential election, where a big name has put false ideas out there and now it would be up to each individual to be told that this advertisement is not accurate to correct the situation. Or the big company could you know... fix their "mistake" instead of simply claiming that they don't want to look "weak" by removing a confusing and misleading video that makes absurd declarations about other products.

If I spend $100,000 airing TV ads that "Kyle from Lancaster is an abuser" and show a one second clip of you punching ANYTHING, followed by a logo for my brand of Pillows, Brand A do you think that's okay? What if when people ask me about it, I say, "Oh, I wasn't clear, Kyle abuses his pillows because they aren't fluffy enough for him, he should buy Brand A pillows. Sorry my ad was misleading", but DON'T pull the ad... am I intentionally still misleading people? Will Kyle suffer unnecessarily from my lack of details in the ad? Am I being deceptive in my practices?

I believe so, although I wouldn't do any of this, because I'm not sleazy, and Kyle from Lancaster is a great guy: so I know he wouldn't abuse anyone, or anything, not even a pillow.


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## LGHT (Oct 12, 2009)

SeanTheEvans said:


> But the company hasn't pulled the video, hasn't changed the description to explain what they really did, and it continues to promote their product as working stating that "Boveda is the only product that actually stops adding moisture when it reaches the desired humidity. " That simply isn't true.
> 
> Also, I'm absolutely POSITIVE that Boveda can be used wrong too. If we want to assume the user has no clue what they are dong - I don't see any directions saying that you must "remove your boveda packet from those plastic bags they come in". So if I just toss a bunch of Boveda I buy at a B&M into a humidor or cooler, without doing ANYTHING, I don't think they will work properly. So much for idiot-proof.


Great summary and the points are all dead on. Bottom line is Boveda is more concerned with increasing their sales by any means necessary, then being an honest company that makes a great product. It's a shame as I've been using Boveda for certain applications for some time. However I can't support or continue to purchase a product from a company with such dishonest business practices.


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## Billb1960 (Oct 10, 2014)

SeanTheEvans said:


> But the company hasn't pulled the video, hasn't changed the description to explain what they really did, and it continues to promote their product as working stating that "Boveda is the only product that actually stops adding moisture when it reaches the desired humidity. " That simply isn't true.
> 
> Also, I'm absolutely POSITIVE that Boveda can be used wrong too. If we want to assume the user has no clue what they are dong - I don't see any directions saying that you must "remove your boveda packet from those plastic bags they come in". So if I just toss a bunch of Boveda I buy at a B&M into a humidor or cooler, without doing ANYTHING, I don't think they will work properly. So much for idiot-proof.
> 
> ...


You make a good point *however*, I think it at least bears mentioning that the HF beads actually *instruct* users to do what apparently is the wrong thing to do with silica beads, i,e. put them in direct contact with water.


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## SeanTheEvans (Dec 13, 2013)

Billb1960 said:


> You make a good point *however*, I think it at least bears mentioning that the HF beads actually *instruct* users to do what apparently is the wrong thing to do with silica beads, i,e. put them in direct contact with water.


Not wrong. On the site, as already provided, it mentions that it will cause them to fracture, and how to avoid that if you so choose (passive recharging).

I have fractured some of my beads. I dip mine in water, I drop water on them, I do what I want (or don't want when I'm in a rush) - they still work absolutely fine. My humi (wood) is rock solid at 65% all day, all year - with ONLY HF beads inside it. Crazy, especially if you believe that "Boveda is the only 2-way humidification device".

Still, this isn't exactly a thread about HF instructions (which I believe we can all agree could be improved), but more about a company intentionally spreading lies and mistruths about another company's product for self-gain.

I can intentionally misuse Boveda as well if I want, and then act like it's a shoddy product, but I have class, and don't want to misinform however many new puffers might be reading on how to safely protect their precious stash - because there are numerous viable options.


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## Billb1960 (Oct 10, 2014)

SeanTheEvans said:


> Not wrong. On the site, as already provided, it mentions that it will cause them to fracture, and how to avoid that if you so choose (passive recharging).
> 
> I have fractured some of my beads. I dip mine in water, I drop water on them, I do what I want (or don't want when I'm in a rush) - they still work absolutely fine. My humi (wood) is rock solid at 65% all day, all year - with ONLY HF beads inside it. Crazy, especially if you believe that "Boveda is the only 2-way humidification device".
> 
> ...


First of all I wouldn't put that video in the category of "spreading lies" although it certainly could've used more setup to clarify it's intent. The fact that the creator of the video came on here and made that point is worth pointing out as well.

Sure you can misuse Boveda but it's a whole bunch harder to do.


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## SeanTheEvans (Dec 13, 2013)

Billb1960 said:


> First of all I wouldn't put that video in the category of "spreading lies" although it certainly could've used more setup to clarify it's intent. The fact that the creator of the video came on here and made that point is worth pointing out as well.
> 
> Sure you can misuse Boveda but it's a whole bunch harder to do.


You can call it what you want, but I'd say that making statements such as:

"Many products say they regulate humidity in your humidor, but Boveda is the only product that actually stops adding moisture when it reaches the desired humidity."

"this video shows that all other humidification devices do nothing but add 100% moisture to the environment, and thus are not true 2-way humidity control"

"all of these other humidification devices except for Boveda, only do one thing- which is give off 100% humidity until they are dried out."

would qualify as "spreading lies". Are any of those three statements true? The video, which was not well-explained would make it appear so, but the actual experiences of hundreds and hundreds of members here would say otherwise.

What part of those statements is not a lie, in your opinion Bill? Do you really think that HF beads simply give off humidity until they are dried out? Odd that there aren't more posts here about thousands of dollars of cigars being ruined by HF beads. My cooler says 65% right now with 65% beads in there. The beads still have moisture in them. Looks like they don't only release it until 100%. Looks like instead, it "stopped adding moisture once it achieved the desired humidity".

and damn, if I put a soaking wet sponge in my cooler, the beads will soak up the excess moisture that the sponge releases into the air. Is that not "true 2-way humidity control"?


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## demuths1770 (Jan 2, 2014)

SeanTheEvans said:


> But the company hasn't pulled the video, hasn't changed the description to explain what they really did, and it continues to promote their product as working stating that "Boveda is the only product that actually stops adding moisture when it reaches the desired humidity. " That simply isn't true.
> 
> Also, I'm absolutely POSITIVE that Boveda can be used wrong too. If we want to assume the user has no clue what they are dong - I don't see any directions saying that you must "remove your boveda packet from those plastic bags they come in". So if I just toss a bunch of Boveda I buy at a B&M into a humidor or cooler, without doing ANYTHING, I don't think they will work properly. So much for idiot-proof.
> 
> ...


to play devils advocate someone could take beads toss em in when they get em and they would olny work if it was in a high humidity area. i see where you are coming from and yes it wouldnt kill anything to pull the video and as for them being the only product that stops adding moisture when it reaches the desired humidity, well on a B&M and large scale level they really are the only one. i only heard of heartfelt beads becasue of puff. boveda is in alot of B&Ms and on the web. its all part of the marketing scheme and every company dose it in one way or another but i do agruee the video should atleast be pulled until they have a chanch to redo it with some better wording and more instructions and input on whats happening/been done during set up


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## Billb1960 (Oct 10, 2014)

SeanTheEvans said:


> You can call it what you want, but I'd say that making statements such as:
> 
> "Many products say they regulate humidity in your humidor, but Boveda is the only product that actually stops adding moisture when it reaches the desired humidity."
> 
> ...


Like I said the creator of the video has already explained his intentions in the video. To answer your question(s) apparently when used incorrectly the HF beads are capable of all 3 of the assertions you quoted.

With that I'm done with this discussion. I don't work for Boveda and while I'm a fan of their ease of use I also realize it comes at a cost. It's one I'm willing to pay.


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## SeanTheEvans (Dec 13, 2013)

Billb1960 said:


> Like I said the creator of the video has already explained his intentions in the video. To answer your question(s) apparently when used incorrectly the HF beads are capable of all 3 of the assertions you quoted.
> 
> With that I'm done with this discussion. I don't work for Boveda and while I'm a fan of their ease of use I also realize it comes at a cost. It's one I'm willing to pay.


And if used incorrectly, Boveda are capable of all 3 of the assertions as well. I don't even see a discussion here on your part, just an adamant defense of a shyster and his product. Each time I refute what you state, you simply ignore the point and move on to another, equally invalid, point.

Did you know that if you use a pencil incorrectly you can lose an eye? Talking about incorrect usage of products should have no place in a demonstration of the abilities of products. That would be like saying "My pens are the best, *the only pens that you won't lose an eye using*!" because if incorrectly used, you could lose an eye with other manufacturer's pens!



demuths1770 said:


> as for them being the only product that stops adding moisture when it reaches the desired humidity, well on a B&M and large scale level they really are the only one. i only heard of heartfelt beads becasue of puff. boveda is in alot of B&Ms and on the web.


Yes, and I'm sure Boveda would like to remain the only large-scale one... perhaps by unfairly bashing any other competitors before they have a chance to gain traction?

Seems even grimier to me that the largest humidification supplier who already has multiple cigar companies signed on would have to resort to stomping out any little guy who attempts to invade their playing field.

Also I do believe that HCM beads are used world-wide for many purposes, and they have two-way humidity control as well if I'm correct. Kitty litter too.

Personally, I hadn't heard of any of these companies before I joined Puff, but once I signed up and became educated, it seems more and more like the front-runner in this game is quite fond of taking cheap shots at all the other options in an uncouth effort to keep their lead.

The video not being pulled says that the company has no scruples. The comment section being closed says that they totally knew this was an issue but silenced any immediate critics so that they could continue to pump out their propaganda unopposed.

Funny, that we're still hearing about a new video that will be posted to better explain things... although this video is from 2013, and the new one that will supposedly correct the situation is slated for 1st quarter 2015?

Strange that a company doesn't seem to be concerned with keeping an admittedly easily misinterpreted video up for a year or more without any alteration/elaboration/etc. I guess a webcam and internet connection wasn't in the budget for 2014?


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## Gdaddy (Sep 20, 2012)

SeanTheEvans said:


> If I spend $100,000 airing TV ads that "Kyle from Lancaster is an abuser" and show a one second clip of you punching ANYTHING, followed by a logo for my brand of Pillows, Brand A do you think that's okay?


Is this a picture of Kyle punching his horse? He does look like an angry fellow. :wacko:


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## JIK (Sep 4, 2014)

Unfortunately some people don't care about integrity anymore. 

As a business owner myself I can't fathom bashing my competitors, or misrepresenting their product. It's even more tasteless when the bigger more established company goes out of their way to make the little guy look bad. 

And interprate it as you will but they are definitely spreading lies. I do say are because the video is still being viewed. 

The Boveda rep coming on here and explaining himself was a decent effort. His following demeanor and the fact there was no action taken except a few words on a forum shows that they really aren't all that interested in being honest. An honest person would not only remove the video but make another explaining what was misinterpreted in the first. 

My conclusion is this, Boveda has a great product, I have always felt that way. But the people behind the product, unfortunately show zero integrity. This guy right here, cares what type of people get his money. If you don't, that's your problem.

Happy smoking and Merry Christmas!


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## Billb1960 (Oct 10, 2014)

Merry Xmas gentlemen!


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## SeanTheEvans (Dec 13, 2013)

Gdaddy said:


> Is this a picture of Kyle punching his horse? He does look like an angry fellow. :wacko:
> 
> View attachment 51608


Honestly it looks more like a kangaroo, ammirite?


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## gtechva (Mar 9, 2014)

Gdaddy said:


> Is this a picture of Kyle punching his horse? He does look like an angry fellow. :wacko:
> 
> View attachment 51608


This proves CPR doesn't work (if used incorrectly on the back of a dead horse).

I use kitty litter in my humidors and refuse to follow the directions on the bag. Just sayin'...


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## Bizumpy (Nov 14, 2014)

SeanTheEvans said:


> And if used incorrectly, Boveda are capable of all 3 of the assertions as well.


I think the point was that Boveda can't be used incorrectly.

I guess if you failed to unwrap them, or didn't actually put them in the humidor, then you'd be using them incorrectly


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## SeanTheEvans (Dec 13, 2013)

Bizumpy said:


> I think the point was that Boveda can't be used incorrectly.
> 
> I guess if you failed to unwrap them, or didn't actually put them in the humidor, then you'd be using them incorrectly


Or if you get them wet, or if you don't have enough of them, or if you over-recharge them, or if they dry out...


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## Bizumpy (Nov 14, 2014)

Interesting, though.. this was discussed in another thread here... I've never had an issue with getting the Boveda packs wet... I "recharge" mine in cups of water all the time.


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## gtechva (Mar 9, 2014)




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## purepoker (Sep 15, 2011)

Bizumpy said:


> Interesting, though.. this was discussed in another thread here... I've never had an issue with getting the Boveda packs wet... I "recharge" mine in cups of water all the time.


Dude, knock it off. YMMV, IMHO, etc, etc, this is a troll thread. This kind of thread is created to stir up shit. I'm not calling you names, being rude, etc, etc, just stating my opinion. If you don't like it, too bad...


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## Bizumpy (Nov 14, 2014)

Well, I don't dislike your opinion, I just don't really care about it...

Anyway, my original question about Heartfelt beads has been answered, I think. It appears that they were over-saturated in the vid. That's all I wanted to know.


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## zoey (Nov 17, 2013)

I am fortunate enough to have a job where I get to shut the marketing team down all the time and tell them this kind of crap would never fly. I watched the video and could smell the marketing ploy/bs a mile away.

Boveda isn't the first to pull this type of stunt nor will they be the last. Vote with your wallets. My two cents. If you like Boveda then buy them if HF then go that route.


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