# Silicon Cat litter instead of Beads?



## Puffy69 (Sep 8, 2005)

I read on line somewhere that guys are using unscented Silicon Cat Litter instead of the Heartfelt beads..Saving mass loot..3.5 [email protected]$7 as apposed to 1 lb. @ $29. Anyone ever do that here? If so, does it work.?


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## Alpedhuez55 (Dec 16, 2005)

Rock Star said:


> I read on line somewhere that guys are using unscented Silicon Cat Litter instead of the Heartfelt beads..Saving mass loot..3.5 [email protected]$7 as apposed to 1 lb. @ $29. Anyone ever do that here? If so, does it work.?


I just read a long post on another forum in that this morning. I guess the Exquisite cat is what a lot of people use.

This is $10.99 for 8 pounds at Petsmart. They say it keeps the the humidor at 65%. i think I am picking up some at lunch since I am going to set up a coolidor this weekend!!!

And when they humidity drops, I guess you just take a leak in beads and you are good for a few months. Though I think I will stick with Distilled H2O.


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## Puffy69 (Sep 8, 2005)

Yup,,Thats it...No Odor... Right?


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## jgros001 (Jun 14, 2005)

Is it just the cat litter or are they using something in addition to it? That would certainly be a much cheaper alternative. Although, I think I would feel a little funny having that in my humidor.


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## Puffy69 (Sep 8, 2005)

jgros001 said:


> Is it just the cat litter or are they using something in addition to it? That would certainly be a much cheaper alternative. Although, I think I would feel a little funny having that in my humidor.


Its the Silicon, that heartfelt beads are made of..They are not beads though..they are more like crystals..you have to get the unscented..it absorbs cat piss..its the same stuff they put in products (the little bags you see)...


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## Millow (Dec 30, 2005)

I'd like to read more about this. It is kind of hard to believe though.


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## Alpedhuez55 (Dec 16, 2005)

jgros001 said:


> Is it just the cat litter or are they using something in addition to it? That would certainly be a much cheaper alternative. Although, I think I would feel a little funny having that in my humidor.


It is just the Cat litter from what I read. It is more or less the same stuff (Silca Gel) that they use to make the beads. You would treat them the same as any other beads. Be careful no to let them get too moist to quickly or the will crack. I guess the best way is to put them in a tuperware container with a bowl of distilled water.

There is a good Q&A section on Beads in the Cigar Accessories Review section. I would go there for the info on how to use them.

I am picking some up at lunch. Hopefully it will work like they say it does.

And the Exquisite Cat brand is unscented.


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## Ta2Bear (Jan 6, 2006)

The product is the same no matter where they use it. it is also used in disposable diapers. It was originally created for landscapers. It can be purchased from wholesale greenhouse or landscaping supply houses in 50 pound bags, as aqua crystals. (or any one of about 20 brand names) www.rainsavers.com sells them for $43.00 for 10 pounds or $195.00 for 50 pounds.


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## Ta2Bear (Jan 6, 2006)

Ta2Bear said:


> The product is the same no matter where they use it. it is also used in disposable diapers. It was originally created for landscapers. It can be purchased from wholesale greenhouse or landscaping supply houses in 50 pound bags, as aqua crystals. (or any one of about 20 brand names) www.rainsavers.com sells them for $43.00 for 10 pounds or $195.00 for 50 pounds.


Also cognac can be added to the crystals if you want to infuse your favorites smokes!


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## Mindflux (Dec 5, 2005)

Very interesting..


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## backwoods (Sep 15, 2005)

excellent post rockstar!!! hopefully this works. I am also gonna pick some up tonight and see what happens.


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## mosesbotbol (Sep 21, 2005)

Make sure to use "before" the cat gets to it or your cigars will never taste the same...


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## Redman (Oct 18, 2004)

Ta2Bear said:


> The product is the same no matter where they use it. it is also used in disposable diapers. It was originally created for landscapers. It can be purchased from wholesale greenhouse or landscaping supply houses in 50 pound bags, as aqua crystals. (or any one of about 20 brand names) www.rainsavers.com sells them for $43.00 for 10 pounds or $195.00 for 50 pounds.


I had some of these on hand before I purchased my 65% beads so I figured I would try them and see what they would do, needless to say the results were less than expected. Once they charged they expand in size and have a texture feeling similar to jelly or snot. I had in tentionall left some old chepo Thompsons out for about a weeks prior to this so I put them in a tupperware container with the crystals and a digital hygro from radio shack and left them for a while, when I returned about 5 hrs later the hygro read 87%, just a bit high for me, so I left them in there for almost a month, opening the tupperware container about every other or every three days and the humidity never dropped much blow 80% and the cigars were unsmokeable they were so saturated (like they were smokeable before ) Just my 2:2 but I would suggest buyig some Heartfelt 65 or 70% beads and being done with it, I hate to spend what I spend on cigars and then see them uined cause I was trying to short cut on humidificatin devices.


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## RumblePen (May 17, 2005)

Does this mean I can piss in my humidor instead having to walk all the that way to the bathroom in the morning?

Don't these things have to be conditioned to maintain a certain humidity? I don't think they design kitty litter to expell cat piss when the ambient cass piss falls below a certain cass piss humidity level.


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## Mindflux (Dec 5, 2005)

Found an archived thread where Viper really knocks the kitty litter and soil crystals. With good reason I guess.. he wants to move his product. 

I'd like to hear more about this, though.


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## awhitaker (Sep 23, 2005)

Some may argue that the grade of the silica gel is better but in the end, it's all about silica gel and the chemical nature of it. Museums have used silica gel in many forms for years, now it's used in humidors. It's all about conditioning the cat litter first by putting it in a sealed container with a bowl of distilled water and monitoring the rH level until it reaches the desired level, then you can put the cat litter in your humidor and it should keep that rH level in your humidor. Here's a website where you can buy silica gel in a sheet form or bead form for museums. Notice they have a dry beads or beads that have already been conditioned to a certain rH. The sheer they sell is kind of cool too. But yeah the cheapest would be cat litter. I might have to try it too. Doesn't hurt to try especially since it's so cheap.

http://www.apsnyc.com/html/control.html#TOP


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## Alpedhuez55 (Dec 16, 2005)

Redman said:


> I had some of these on hand before I purchased my 65% beads so I figured I would try them and see what they would do, needless to say the results were less than expected. Once they charged they expand in size and have a texture feeling similar to jelly or snot. I had in tentionall left some old chepo Thompsons out for about a weeks prior to this so I put them in a tupperware container with the crystals and a digital hygro from radio shack and left them for a while, when I returned about 5 hrs later the hygro read 87%, just a bit high for me, so I left them in there for almost a month, opening the tupperware container about every other or every three days and the humidity never dropped much blow 80% and the cigars were unsmokeable they were so saturated (like they were smokeable before ) Just my 2:2 but I would suggest buyig some Heartfelt 65 or 70% beads and being done with it, I hate to spend what I spend on cigars and then see them uined cause I was trying to short cut on humidificatin devices.


It sounds like you may have overcharged the beads if they had the consistancy of jelly. Plus when the beads are overcharged and left in Tupperware, there is nowhere for the excess humidity to escape, so the cigars would naturally become saturated. Humidors breath, tupperware does not. I would give them another try with less water.


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## Scott M (Jan 4, 2005)

I think he was talking about the silica pellets / cat litter v. the beads, 55. Overcharging the beads doesn't result in a change in consistancy, only clear beads. 

My take is that with the litter you have no control of the humidity level inside the humidor. It's not like PG, a Cigar Oasis or beads where you have the RH set to a certain range, (or point) and then your modest efforts go towards maintaining that range. 

I'd think with the litter you'd have to add dry litter to decrease the level, or add DW to increase the level, without the benefit of knowing where you'll end up. HOWEVER, I could be wrong about this.

My 2 centavos; spend the coin on "fire and forget" beads. Consider the "mass loot" you're spending as an investment in peace-of-mind and control. 


Scott"backspace"M


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## jgros001 (Jun 14, 2005)

Scott M said:


> My take is that with the litter you have no control of the humidity level inside the humidor. It's not like PG, a Cigar Oasis or beads where you have the RH set to a certain range, (or point) and then your modest efforts go towards maintaining that range.
> 
> I'd think with the litter you'd have to add dry litter to decrease the level, or add DW to increase the level, without the benefit of knowing where you'll end up.
> 
> ...


I agree. If the litter was so great, do I really think everyone and their mother would endorse the beads? No.


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## colgate (Jan 18, 2005)

jgros001 said:


> I agree. If the litter was so great, do I really think everyone and their mother would endorse the beads? No.


The litter aint so great. Prolly better suited to NC's since they like a little more humidity but I didn't get good consistent results with the stuff. Too hard to get right. Buy the 65% beads and forget about it. Forever.


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## Puffy69 (Sep 8, 2005)

Thanks everyone for their input..Just looking to see if anyone had done this before..I heard of one person in this thread that has done it and he says it sucks..


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## RumblePen (May 17, 2005)

awhitaker said:


> Some may argue that the grade of the silica gel is better but in the end, it's all about silica gel and the chemical nature of it. Museums have used silica gel in many forms for years, now it's used in humidors. It's all about conditioning the cat litter first by putting it in a sealed container with a bowl of distilled water and monitoring the rH level until it reaches the desired level, then you can put the cat litter in your humidor and it should keep that rH level in your humidor. Here's a website where you can buy silica gel in a sheet form or bead form for museums. Notice they have a dry beads or beads that have already been conditioned to a certain rH. The sheer they sell is kind of cool too. But yeah the cheapest would be cat litter. I might have to try it too. Doesn't hurt to try especially since it's so cheap.
> 
> http://www.apsnyc.com/html/control.html#TOP


I think there's more to conditioning the silicon than that. Think about it. If all you had to do to condition it was to make it hold a certin RH for a certain amount of time, then all of our beads would turn from 70% to 66% beads just because we let them sit at that level for too long.

I think they need to be manufactured to hold a certain RH.


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## Redman (Oct 18, 2004)

Alpedhuez55 said:


> It sounds like you may have overcharged the beads if they had the consistancy of jelly. Plus when the beads are overcharged and left in Tupperware, there is nowhere for the excess humidity to escape, so the cigars would naturally become saturated. Humidors breath, tupperware does not. I would give them another try with less water.


Actually the tupperware that I have does not produce a airtight seal at all, I have stored some in the same container I did this test with, with the 65% beads and I had to recharge the beads after a some time so i would believe that the moisture has to be escaping somewhere. I did try the crystals again with a lot less water some time after the first trial run but did not include it in the post cause I tought I was getting a bit long winded. In the second run the crystals were lightly moistened and didn't turn into the jelly consistency but turned more of a clear color leaving me feeling a bit better about it this time but in the end the result was the same, the rh skyrocketed without being able to control it. I guess what i am saying is buy the beads and charge em and forget em, much less work involved methinks.


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## RedBaron (Nov 25, 2005)

My :2 I would rather support a BOTL, (in this case heartfelt), as opposed to a corporate petshop.


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## CrazyFool (Oct 2, 2005)

RedBaron said:


> My :2 I would rather support a BOTL, (in this case heartfelt), as opposed to a corporate petshop.


true that- so dont do for it the money when it was a fine BOTL that introdiced us to beads altogether. and honestly anything that sounds too good and easy to be true...... yup


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## RumblePen (May 17, 2005)

RedBaron said:


> My :2 I would rather support a BOTL, (in this case heartfelt), as opposed to a corporate petshop.


What if said corporate petshop was owned by a BOTL? The plot THICKENS!


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## (909) (Jul 27, 2004)

Boys, Boys Boys!!!

I'm with ScottM, lets think about this one. We spend $100-$700.00 a box for cigars and then we are going to take a chance on humidifying them with kitty litter???

Spend the cash on the beads, put them in the humidor and forget about 'em. Split wrappers, plugged (overhumidified), uneven burn smokes are not good. 

I've got 2 humidors with beads, one with about 15 everyday smokes and another that holds about 200. I check the RH on the one with the 200 smokes about once a month and it always reads 66% exactly. All I did was to take the 2 humidification units included with the box and replace the Oasis with 65% beads.


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## txmatt (May 22, 2004)

The thing with all of these alternate ideas is you don't know what humidity they will maintain.

As someone else mentioned the chemistry in the beads is already set, you can't change their absorb to/release at point as you can with changing the PG/Water ratio. The silica gel is chemically "programmed" to its absorb/release point.

When you buy 65% beads you know they will absorb moisture and bring RH down to 65% when RH is above it or release moisture when RH falls below 65%; they behave this way chemically.

When you buy the Kitty Litter, etc you have no way of knowing the chemically "set" humidity level. That said you could charge some and see what it absorbs to.

-Matt-


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## Da Klugs (Jan 8, 2005)

RumblePen said:


> I think there's more to conditioning the silicon than that. Think about it. If all you had to do to condition it was to make it hold a certin RH for a certain amount of time, then all of our beads would turn from 70% to 66% beads just because we let them sit at that level for too long.
> 
> I think they need to be manufactured to hold a certain RH.


Ding Ding

Plus they are designed to desorb as well as absorb humidity. The crystals (cat litter) purpose is to absorb moisture. They sell 65% and 70% at heartfelt. They work as advertized and hold their renvironment at the designed RH.

Cat litter does a great job of absorbing cat piss and making nice little lumps out of their do do. So it is a great product as well.

I have pure silicone caulk in my basement that is only $ 2 a tube. Probably not going to use it in my humi though.


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## Redman (Oct 18, 2004)

txmatt said:


> *The thing with all of these alternate ideas is you don't know what humidity they will maintain.*
> 
> As someone else mentioned the chemistry in the beads is already set, you can't change their absorb to/release at point as you can with changing the PG/Water ratio. The silica gel is chemically "programmed" to its absorb/release point.
> When you buy 65% beads you know they will absorb moisture and bring RH down to 65% when RH is above it or release moisture when RH falls below 65%; they behave this way chemically.
> ...


Thanks Matt, that was the point I was trying to make.


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## LeafHog (Feb 11, 2004)

Da Klugs said:


> ...I have pure silicone caulk in my basement that is only $ 2 a tube. Probably not going to use it in my humi though.


You didn't use it to seal up those cabinettas? :r


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## txmatt (May 22, 2004)

Da Klugs said:


> I have pure silicone caulk in my basement that is only $ 2 a tube. Probably not going to use it in my humi though.


We know what you use those tubes for!!


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## Lance (Nov 25, 2005)

I think you all are confusing 2 different products.

Some people have been talking about gel, which is used for landscaping. That expands and turns into jelly.

If thats what you used unsuccesfully, and it sounds that way, then you used a different product than the kitty litter. 

It sounds like the kitty litter is a hard crystal, much like the beads. It doesnt change shape, or get jelly like, it just goes from white to clear. 

I dont think the kitty litter beads were designed to hold a certain humidity, but I think, perhaps, that just happens to be what this product may do in addition to absorbing piss. 

Just like the heartfelt beads arent designed to be used as kitty litter, but probably can be....

:2


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## Da Klugs (Jan 8, 2005)

Hey no offense intended. Maybe they will work great.

I don't shop at ALDI either. Supposedly it's just like regular food. The Coca Buffs, Frosted Flakeroos, etc. just give me the willies. It's the bizarro world of food.


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## canadasmokes (Dec 20, 2005)

I think that the silicon cat litter only absorbs and doesnt stop absorbing, where as the heartfelt beads are composed of silicon to stop absorbing when the surrounding humidity reaches 65% or 70%.
I have a strong feeling the heartfelt beads are very different. IMHO


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## awhitaker (Sep 23, 2005)

Here is an excerpt from a paper written by Steven Weintraub called 'Demystifying Silica Gel':

"It is important to understand how silica gels vary in performance in order to select the most costeffective gel for a particular application. MH, the hysteresis corrected buffering capacity of silica gel, is the critical variable for assessing silica gel efficiency."


In this paper it diiscusses medium-density silica gel which I would say is close to the cat litter and it also discusses Art-Sorb silica gel and Rhapid Gel silica gel. I would say based on the readings that Viper probably uses a form of Rhapid Gel. Conditioning silica gel is as simple as placing the gel in a sealed container and adjusting the RH with distilled water or adding dried beads or beads with less or more RH to the batch to get the desired Rh. 

The big difference between all these silica gels is Mh. Rhapid Gel has a high Mh as I would assume Vipers beads do at the 65-70% RH range. Cat litter does not. This means that you would have to use a lot more cat litter (about 10 times probably) than Vipers beads. By the way Mh is the average amount of water (in grams) that is gained or lost by 1 kilogram of silica gel for each 1% change in RH. 

After reading all this, the thing I'm wondering is what is Vipers Beads Mh? From what people say, I would guess it's high which means they are very efficient as opposed to cat litter silica gel.


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## Alpedhuez55 (Dec 16, 2005)

txmatt said:


> When you buy 65% beads you know they will absorb moisture and bring RH down to 65% when RH is above it or release moisture when RH falls below 65%; they behave this way chemically.
> 
> When you buy the Kitty Litter, etc you have no way of knowing the chemically "set" humidity level. That said you could charge some and see what it absorbs to.
> 
> -Matt-


I think the point for me is that I read of several people using these beads, and saying they are maintaining 65% humidity without any problems. Maybe the kitty litter was not designed for that function, but apparently it works in that manner. THey follow the the instructions for Climmax Beads (which & guess at least look Identical to the Kitty Litter) and they work like a charm.

A lot of products have uses other than what they were intended for. Crazy glue was originally developed to close wounds on the battlefield. But it is used to hang fat stupid contruction workers from I-beams among other things 

I am tempted to try it out of curriosity. If it works, great!!! If it doesn't, it will look like my sister's cats are crapping in diamonds for a few weeks.


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## joshua-cr (Sep 7, 2005)

I would like to see a side by side test of the kitty litter vrs beads in a controlled environment. Something in me says "why the heck would kitty litter be calibrated for 65% humidity?"


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## awhitaker (Sep 23, 2005)

joshua said:


> I would like to see a side by side test of the kitty litter vrs beads in a controlled environment. Something in me says "why the heck would kitty litter be calibrated for 65% humidity?"


Kitty litter wouldn't be calibrated to 65%, you would have to condition it yourself. Viper's beads and all the other passive silica-based humidifiers are conditioned already. You just put them them your humidor and your set, when the RH drops and doesn't come back up, just add water. If the RH rises and doesn't come down, dry the beads out.

In the end the answer is: you would have to use more kitty litter than heartfelt beads based on the Mh value. Which means Heartfelt beads will react faster to a drop or rise in the RH, so as a result one needs less Heartfelt beads per cubic inch than kitty litter.


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## ghostrider (Oct 30, 2005)

Only real use I could see for using kitty litter in my humidor is to keep the "dog rockets".


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## Nooner (Feb 22, 2005)

I use Exquisicat 'Pearls' in my Coolers. Not in my Humidors as space is at a bit more of a premium in the Humis. I use a TON of the beads in my cooler-a-dors, and another humidification source.

I bought the big jug of Pearls(round beads) and conditioned them a couple different ways - the one I found most successful was to use my Cigar Oasis and a spray bottle. I put the beads into stockings, filled up the Oasis, misted the inside of the cooler generously, set the Humidity sensor from my wireless unit in the cooler and let 'er sit. I watched the humidity slowly climb, and occasionally(over a few days) added more water to the Oasis and via the spray bottle. Once the beads reached about 65% I vacuum sealed all the beads and took them and sat them out on my porch - it gets pretty hot out there and I figured that woudl even out the amount of moisture each bead was holding.

I also used the other method, which is to put them in a sealed bag and gradually mist them until they reach desired humidity, I suffered a lot more cracked beads with that batch and ended up processing them with all the other beads when I used my Nooner-approved Scientifically concieved bead processing method.

I also tried salinating(using a solution of salt and water) the beads, and they did NOT absorb the salt - so nothing to be gained by using salt to set the humidity, although there may be other chemicals that would work.

The beads work great, and the coolers are rock solid at 65%


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## Jkbd33 (Jun 22, 2005)

RumblePen said:


> Does this mean I can piss in my humidor instead having to walk all the that way to the bathroom in the morning?


Those humdors really do it all. :r

We have it made.


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## Nooner (Feb 22, 2005)

Oh... I shoud mention... the pearls are MUCH lighter than the beads. I would say that per volume they are seem 1/2 to 1/3 the weight(but that is not a scientific observation).

Beads are obviously much higher quality silica than the cat pearls.


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## (909) (Jul 27, 2004)

I hear that Cremosas are aged in Kitty Litter which lends a certain quality unattainable by any other method.


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## galaga (Sep 18, 2003)

(909) said:


> I hear that Cremosas are aged in Kitty Litter which lends a certain quality unattainable by any other method.


Now, we know how Dave did it!


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## LeafHog (Feb 11, 2004)

galaga said:


> Now, we know how Dave did it!


just don't try to use your Depends in your cooler Rick! :bx


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## galaga (Sep 18, 2003)

LeafHog said:


> just don't try to use your Depends in your cooler Rick!


You outhouse designers/sh!t routers know all the tricks -- (yabastage):fu r)


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## steve12553 (Sep 25, 2005)

I'd alway be afraid of attracting cats.


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## par (May 22, 2005)

I just had to research this one. And in the process i had to relearn a bit of high school chemistry that had been long forgotten.

note: i'm a computer geek so this is unchartered territory for me. But i'm pretty decent with physics so i figured that chemistry couldn't be too hard.

in any case, the silica beads and their compositions that i've come across online which are used as the basis for cat litter ar all fully absorbent; i.e. they won't release any humidity once charged. You could probably mask this by charging them up and then playing with temperature to control RH but in either case, they aren't a particularly good buffer to maintain RH with.

so that lead me to try to figure out what mr heartfeld really sold to me. And that wasn't that easy since all i knew was how it looked and some ideas on the chemical composition. I'm fairly certain that this is some form of silica that used a variety of salts (different salts release H2O at different RH's). This seems logical or it would be really tricky to sell a 70% and a 65% version. The second question had to do with the indicator, so the beads has to be washed with an indicator to change from milky to translucent. 

So this is what i believe (and again, i'm a complete amatuer at this). I think that heartfelds beads are some form of sodium silica that has been treated with an agent. The silica is prone to cracking due to the porous nature of the silica (don't pour water on the beads) and the sodium is what is used to make the beads absorb and release humidity.

so, i'm fairly sure that we are looking at a chemical compound which on the surface shares some properties with cat litter but is really a different chemical compund all together.

my few cents (and since i'm not a chemist i can be 100% wrong -but this is my theory based on observation and an evening of googling).

cheers everyone!


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## DownUnder LLG (Mar 29, 2005)

Well I guess it would keep all those Cuban Cats that people keep in their humi's happy  


Anyone else remeber that or is it just me.


Oh and my :2 , I would sooner support a BOTL and use his product. Why? Because he's a great bloke, he stands by his product, he offers great service and if you have problems or concerns he will help you out no end. I don't know about anyone else, but I don't see many Cigar chomping cats about that you can ask advice for about the stuff they pi$$ in.

Cigars here (Aus) aren't cheap, I've said this 100 times here before, and I am not going to trust the cigars that have been given to me by the generous gorillas here to some unknown quantity because I value each and everyone that has been given to me and I make sure too look after them as well as I can. It's easier and less work.


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## homeless_texan (Sep 11, 2005)

I know I'm a noob, but I don't think i would be interested in turning my humidores into litter boxadores.


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## opus (Jun 21, 2005)

Use what you like, I think viper's beads are cheap for a *proven product *when it comes to protecting my cigar investment. I have seen people with $30,000 gun collections balk at paying $1500 for a real safe to protect them. Some firearms cost more than that. Similarly, one pound of heartfelt beads costs les than some cigars. It just doesn't make sense to me to skimp on storage and protection.:2


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## drevim (Dec 21, 2005)

opusxox said:


> Use what you like, I think viper's beads are cheap for a *proven product *when it comes to protecting my cigar investment. I have seen people with $30,000 gun collections balk at paying $1500 for a real safe to protect them. Some firearms cost more than that. Similarly, one pound of heartfelt beads costs les than some cigars. It just doesn't make sense to me to skimp on storage and protection.:2


I'm with Opus here, as well as the majority in this thread. I couldn't be happier than I am with Dave's products. This is why I will continue to do business with him. The fact he's a great BOTL helps, too. But seriously, try the Heartfelt beads, everybody can't be wrong. They are great.


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## Puffy69 (Sep 8, 2005)

par said:


> I just had to research this one. And in the process i had to relearn a bit of high school chemistry that had been long forgotten.
> 
> note: i'm a computer geek so this is unchartered territory for me. But i'm pretty decent with physics so i figured that chemistry couldn't be too hard.
> 
> ...


Thanks Par for the info.


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## Puffy69 (Sep 8, 2005)

You all are right...They arent cheap and you shouldnt skimp but from the thread I was reading from another board was making it sound like the Kitty litter was the same thing as the Heartfelt beads..I support Heartfelt.being that i've bought beads from him in the past but if he was selling me kitty litter for $29 per lb (which obviosly he isnt)i was just gonna save me some $ on that area of my cabinet (the $ pit)and have more $ for those sticks we like to fill them with.I just wanted to know if anyone has had any experience with this product and so far only 1 person has, out of everyone who posted here. Some people had some good info for me and I am definitely not defering from the Heartfelt Beads now. Ive never owned a cat and nerver knew that kitty litter had silica in it. Totally different product all together. I was mislead. Thanks all for you input..HEARTFELT BEADS ROCK!


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## joshua-cr (Sep 7, 2005)

This is from Viper's FAQ:


> Humidification beads are a moisture sensitive silica material which absorbs and desorbs moisture in order to offset changes in relative humidity (RH). The beads are generally available preset to a specific RH, in the case of cigars 65% and 70%. Opinions differ as to what is the "best" RH for cigars but most BOTLs seem to prefer 65% and that is my experience as well.
> 
> Humidification beads were first developed for the art and museum industry and are used extensively by that industry for the stable storage of priceless artifacts and art. The manufacturer I purchase the beads I sell also supplies places such as the Smithsonian and The National Archives.
> 
> ...


I think the difference is the kitty litter is made for absorbing. The beads are made for 2-way humidification, I.E it gives off moisture as well as aborbs it. If the kitty litter did that, it would stink like pee when a cat saturated it. So I guess if you have high humidity problems only you could use some kitty litter to tame them by adding enough to absorb the excess moisture, but who knows exactly how much... and the temperature might affect it.


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## HKGuns (Jan 7, 2006)

http://www.cwaller.de/english.htm?eprosorbdirections.htm~information

Click on products then "Art SORB".


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## cigar no baka (Sep 7, 2005)

Man, if I stuck kat litter in my humidor, my cat would walk by and go "oh, another litterbox!" and proceed to piss on, around and/or in my humidor. Then I'd have to kill him. I love my cat so no go for me.


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## joshua-cr (Sep 7, 2005)

HKGuns said:


> http://www.cwaller.de/english.htm?eprosorbdirections.htm~information
> 
> Click on products then "Art SORB".


Lots of technical details there. Thanks for sharing!


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## par (May 22, 2005)

I read up on the art sorb but i don't think that's what heartfeld is using either. According to the technical docs of art sorb it's a decent buffer for when ambient temperature changes the RH rapidly which is important for museums and galleries. It acts as a RH buffer to smooth out sudden RH changes. However it's not a moisture control agent, it's merely a buffer. art sorb won't actively strive for a relative humidity equilibrium the way heartfeld beads will (and i think that i understood the literature right).

According to some text i managed to dig up from stanford they suggested that the kind of silica that art sorb is won't work well to maintain humidity -not even when properly charged.

i think the beads that heartfeld sells are a bit more sophisticated than the art sorb (altough the basic principle is the same). In either case, i really really like heartfelds beads -they are rock solid in maintining RH. I 100% endorse his product, it's amazingly good.

and to Joshua, i wished i went and read heartfelds FAQ before i studied up on the various silica gels last night...


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## GOAT LOCKER (Aug 7, 2004)

What Par said. The beads from Viper are a mixture of silica and hygroscopic salts with a set humidity point. Being the cheap skate that I am, I did try the kitty litter crystals in a test humidor, with poor results. Humidity was regulated over a wide range, between 60% and 75%. Vipers beads are rock solid at 65%.


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## par (May 22, 2005)

I assume that the way one sets the humidity point is a selection of the salts used. There are some salts that are hygroscopic at 75% and others are hygroscopic as low as 50%. By carefully selecting the right proportions one can create a custom point where the salts strive to maintain equilibrium.

It's been pretty interesting to read up on this stuff. I found out that a museum in seattle used a custom mix of salts as a way of maintaining a 60% RH in one exhibit. The museum had been using silica gels but found that the air became too dry and didn't maintain the RH the way they wanted to. The writeup was from the early 90's so i assume that silica beads with hygroscopic salts must be a fairly recent invention. Whoever came up with it, it's a pretty clever to combine silica and salts. Simple and cute -works like a charm!

p.s. i'm posting so much because i found this very intereresting. Yeah i know, i should go and get a life...


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## dayplanner (Dec 11, 1997)

par said:


> p.s. i'm posting so much because i found this very intereresting. Yeah i know, i should go and get a life...


You're in good company... or bad depending on how you look at it

:w


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## Bubba -NJ (Dec 6, 2005)

Hey Rockstar here is a link to another fine cigar forum with some good info about the kitty litter -http://www.cigarsmokers.com/showthread.php?t=1847&highlight=Kitty+litter , read the whole page , it seems easy to do with the kitty litter but maybe it's not easy . :u I'm staying with heartfelt beads . I did read that if you're having high humidity issues , the kitty litter is a good way to bring down the RH because it absorbs moisture so well .


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## 12stones (Jan 6, 2006)

I'd just have to hope my cat doesn't know how to open the humidor. I still have a traditional humidifier but might look into the 70% beads. I actually prefer an rH of about 73-75% (course, I have nothing but NC sticks). I've noticed a lot of people here stick with 65% and was wondering why? Just curious.


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## HKGuns (Jan 7, 2006)

I should add that I use Heartfelt beads in both my humidors. This was only posted as information. I doubt the cat litter plan would "hold water".

I'm pretty sure these are the real deal......Viper advertises various art institutes use the same product. This may not be his source, but I'd bet they are the same.


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## Puffy69 (Sep 8, 2005)

Bubba -NJ said:


> Hey Rockstar here is a link to another fine cigar forum with some good info about the kitty litter -http://www.cigarsmokers.com/showthread.php?t=1847&highlight=Kitty+litter , read the whole page , it seems easy to do with the kitty litter but maybe it's not easy . :u I'm staying with heartfelt beads . I did read that if you're having high humidity issues , the kitty litter is a good way to bring down the RH because it absorbs moisture so well .


Thanks Man...Very interesting..Im with Heartfelt too..Ordering another lb. now


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## TypeO- (Jan 4, 2006)

I hope that it's the litter box that my cat is attracted to and not the scent of the crystals. I don't need my cat climbing into my cabinet and pissing on my cigars.


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## Viper139 (Jan 13, 2005)

There is absolutely no comparison between Heartfelt Beads and kitty litter (designed to de a desicant, absorb cat piss) other than they are both a silicon based product. And of course there is no difference in cigars since they are all made of tobacco so we can smoke any of them and they will taste the same...correct?

I have used beads for about five years, long before I started to sell them. When I decided to go into the business of selling them I researched very carefully which manufacturer to purcase the beads from. Some of the research consisted of testing performed by independant laboratories. This testing was done for the museum and art industry but is applicable here. The 5 main manufacturers of beads were tested for their performance in a given Rh range. The beads I sell tested far more accurate within the 60% to 70% Rh range in exchange rate (the amount of time to react to Rh changes) and accuracy. The others performed well at much lower Rh levels (20%-30%) but that is not important to us. This is the main reason I chose the product I sell. 

So not only is there a major difference between Heartfelt Beads and kitty litter, there is also a difference between the high end products.

I figure if the Smithsonian, the National Archives and the Louvre can trust this product for use in protecting multi million dollar works of art and irreplaceable ducuments it should work real well for our cigars.


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## SmokusMaximus (Sep 7, 2005)

Thanks Dave for jumping in.

I think that some folks are just trying to find an economical step up from the foam type humidifiers and PG solution and they forget that there is a lot of Organic Chemistry that goes into engineered products.

I have found that over the years, there is no cheap way of getting quality humidification control in a humidor. There are just degrees of expense involved with the process. I myself, like the ability to "set and forget" that Heartfelt beads provide. I check my humidors as necessary and add distilled water, measured by a medicine syringe, to the tubes as needed. I don't worry about cracking beads as the efficiency does not go down and they are contained in the tubes. I would not hesitate to change to another product if there was a better one out there. So far, I have not found it and the only product I could see as being better than Dave's beads would be a man servant that takes care of all the little chores.  

The act of maintaining my cigars shouldn't be so time consuming as that I get nothing else done. That detracts from the reason I enjoy cigars so much. Dave has a solid product and for the price he charges, it can't be beat!


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## Puffy69 (Sep 8, 2005)

Viper139 said:


> There is absolutely no comparison between Heartfelt Beads and kitty litter (designed to de a desicant, absorb cat piss) other than they are both a silicon based product. And of course there is no difference in cigars since they are all made of tobacco so we can smoke any of them and they will taste the same...correct?
> 
> I have used beads for about five years, long before I started to sell them. When I decided to go into the business of selling them I researched very carefully which manufacturer to purcase the beads from. Some of the research consisted of testing performed by independant laboratories. This testing was done for the museum and art industry but is applicable here. The 5 main manufacturers of beads were tested for their performance in a given Rh range. The beads I sell tested far more accurate within the 60% to 70% Rh range in exchange rate (the amount of time to react to Rh changes) and accuracy. The others performed well at much lower Rh levels (20%-30%) but that is not important to us. This is the main reason I chose the product I sell.
> 
> ...


And your right..Im sorry for even starting this thread..I was just wondering if anybody ever did this..I conteplated trying it and glad I didnt..Ive ordered 2 times from you and just ordered for the 3rd time..I really like this product but sometimes can get a little expensive for humidification..I have a big cab to maintain and its eating those beads like Pac-Man but you know what, its worth it. I figure Im going need at least 3 to 4lbs to get it right..We'll see..1 lb at a time..


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## Redman (Oct 18, 2004)

Personally I wouldn't apologize for the post at all, you did nothing wrong, I think it has been a very informative thread to all. Just me though


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## Nooner (Feb 22, 2005)

Rock Star said:


> And your right..Im sorry for even starting this thread..I was just wondering if anybody ever did this..I conteplated trying it and glad I didnt..Ive ordered 2 times from you and just ordered for the 3rd time..I really like this product but sometimes can get a little expensive for humidification..I have a big cab to maintain and its eating those beads like Pac-Man but you know what, its worth it. I figure Im going need at least 3 to 4lbs to get it right..We'll see..1 lb at a time..


Not a bad thread at all, no need to apologize. In my mind, there is a place for the beads AND for the cat litter. Just like the Cedar and cigars in our humidors buffer humidity changes, so does the cat litter. It is nowhere near as effecient as the Heartfelt beads, but it still works, you just have to monitor them more closely or set up another humidity source(I use an Oasis in one cooler, and a couple Diamond Crown humidifiers in the other). They are going to try and reach an equilibrium though.


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## Viper139 (Jan 13, 2005)

I too agree, absolutely no apologies needed. This is the process that we all like to go through to learn. If folks quit asking questions, and that is on any topic, the exchange of information would quit and that would be a huge loss.


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## Sir Tony (Dec 18, 2005)

We sell this stuff at my work, and it only absorbes as stated. It may be good if you have a drastic humidity apike and need to bring it down slowly. Heartfelts all the way, my tubes should be here tommorow.


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## Puffy69 (Sep 8, 2005)

Viper139 said:


> I too agree, absolutely no apologies needed. This is the process that we all like to go through to learn. If folks quit asking questions, and that is on any topic, the exchange of information would quit and that would be a huge loss.


Thats cool.I just didnt want to steer anyone in the wrong direction from using something other than the right product (which is Heartfelt Beads) for this application. Which could lead to less business for you now and they would eventually have to get beads from you cuz the litter wouldnt work and that would be a big waste of time. And that is the reason for my apology to you but yes, this was a good learning experience. Thanks for the info...


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## awhitaker (Sep 23, 2005)

Actually I've really enjoyed this thread. I'm a sucker for learning. When it comes down to it, Viper's prices for good buffering beads is a lot better than other suppliers. You could order 1lb of 65% or 70% Art-Sorb beads from Carr-McLean for $58.60 or you could order 1lb of 65% or 70% beads from Viper for $28.95.

You do the math and the result is Vipers beads are cheap as in a really good price for a very good product and he is a fellow BOTL. I'm still curious as to what Viper uses whether it's ArtSorb or RhapidGel or some other one but in the end, I think a lot of us our very curious people that love to dive into our hobby of cigars and learn everything we can.

Also in regards to stating that the cat litter is a dessicant and cannot desorb moisture but rather just absorb, I believe that is false according to some more reading I found. Some forms of silica are better dessicants than humidity buffers but they can all do both. Some forms just require more silica than others:

_
Silica Gel
A porous, granular, chemically inert, amorphous form of silicon dioxide, capable of absorbing and desorbing water vapour in order to reach equilibrium with the surrounding air. Hence it is used for drying the air in an enclosed space, or for buffering humidity changes, or to help maintain a specific level of relative humidity (RH) during storage, display or shipping. Gel can be reconditioned as necessary, using an oven for drying or a humidity chamber for higher humidities. N.B. For effective control using silica gel, the controlled space must be properly air-tight. Silica gel is most efficient when used in a fairly shallow layer spread over a large surface area.

Quantities quoted in suppliers' catalogues are not always equivalent. Typically, the amount suggested for silica gel used as a desiccant is considerably less than that suggested for use as a humidity buffer. The smaller packages and tins are best used simply as desiccants in small enclosures, since an unmanageable number would be required for buffering. Loose gel can be used either as a desiccant or as a buffer._


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## backwoods (Sep 15, 2005)

Well, after reading this thread I have decided to order some beads for my new humi. Thanks for all the info gang!


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## kjd2121 (Jul 13, 2006)

par said:


> I just had to research this one. And in the process i had to relearn a bit of high school chemistry that had been long forgotten.
> 
> note: i'm a computer geek so this is unchartered territory for me. But i'm pretty decent with physics so i figured that chemistry couldn't be too hard.
> 
> in any case, the silica beads and their compositions that i've come across online which are used as the basis for cat litter ar all fully absorbent; i.e. they won't release any humidity once charged. You could probably mask this by charging them up and then playing with temperature to control RH but in either case, they aren't a particularly good buffer to maintain RH with.


I went out to Petco this weekend and bought the Cat Crystals for my coolerdor. I filled one of those plastic containers with crystals and punched holes in the lid. I used RO water from my system and filled the container until approx 75% crystals were fully absorbed. I am using the Radio shack wireless hygrometer. I put the container into the cooler and waited overnight. In the morning the humidity level was at 55% and holding. I opened the cooler and lo and behold the crystals were dry. I quickly closed the lid and added more water to the crystals. I placed the newly charged crystals quickly into the cooler and in about 2 hours the humidity was at 65%. I monitored the humidity during the past 2 days and it will vary from 64% to 66%.

So it seems to me that the crystals are absorbing and giving off vapor contrary to what you say above. If the crystals didn't give off vapor then why were they dried out?

I also tried the crystals in a shot glass inside my desktop humi and they work just as well as the coolerdor.


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