# Flying Pig T52 WTF?



## castaweb (Apr 24, 2011)

So, today's the day. I have let these Pig's rest in the humi for 2+ weeks now. I have been looking so forward to smoking one of these but I was determined to be patient so I could have the "best" that these things could give. They have been in my humi that is a rock solid 65-66 RH for going on 3 weeks. This is going to be great!

Look at this little beauty. Lovely color and neat shape.









Cut the tail off (And ONLY the tail. I didn't want to take to much off) and light this baby up. Seems like a loose draw. Like maybe one of most loose draws I can remember. I keep puffing on this thing but not much smoke from the foot and tastes bad. Real bad. I work on it off and on for maybe another 5-6 miutes and I notice something weird. The Pig feels spongy. Real spongy. I have had a few spongy cigars in my life but nothing like this. This thing feel like it is maybe half full. Not sure what to think. First WTF is that the cigar is not smoking evenly. Way to much time for the wrapper to be only a half inch burned. Second WFT is the bad spongy.










I am perplexed by this for sure. I go to the humidor and double check the rest of the Pig's in the box. They are all firm to the touch and seem fine. I double check the RH and it is fine. Mmmm?

So, I feel around the entire length of the cigar and find what I can only describe as "a lump of coal" near the foot end. While not as hard as a rock, it is a hard mass. I have never experienced this before. Some tunneling yes, but this no. I rolled the cigar back and forth between my index finger and thumb and "work" the charcoal plug out of the cigar. What is left is the picture below. It looks as if a 60RG melon baller was used to leave a perfect little concave divot in the stick. WTF?










I worked the "lump of coal" out and purge the cigar and then I get it going again. The burn is really uneven and I hate that because the "coal" has me hesitant to put any more fire to it, soft flame or not.










You can see how uneven the burn is here. More than a half inch out of even. WFT?










I get the cigar evened out a bit and actually enjoy smoking it for maybe 12 minutes. Then, much to my chagrin, my stocking is again filled with the ominous "lump of coal." At this point, I decide to tap out. I have looked forward to this for almost a month, since the day I ordered the box of Pig's. I had the house to myself and it was not 90+ degrees like it was all weekend.

Now I decide that I will do some exploritory cigar surgery. All my enjoyment has been killed so maybe I will discover something enlightening by razoring this thing open. When I cut it down, I literally had to saw through the coal part to get it open. Not sure if it can be seen in the picture but this is not ash, it is coal.










So now I seek opinions as to why and WFT. There are many members on here with far more experience and knowledge than me. I hope that there is some explanation. Tell me if it was me. Is it just a bad stick?

I have had about 15 Drew Estates cigars in the past 3 months and each and every one was flawlessly constructed. Every one except this one.

I am pissed and disappointed. I don't get an entire night of uninterupted time often and this one was massive letdown. Damnit, I should be out in my Adirondack chair finishing this cigar up and enjoying the gentle breeze and not in my basement on the computer writing this.


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## bwhite220 (May 15, 2011)

Holy crap!! That sponge pic is kind of comical though. Sorry, I'm sure you're furious!

I'm newish to the cigar world and I have no idea what happened to you but I'm interested in finding out what the pros say.


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## StogieNinja (Jul 29, 2009)

Me too. That's just WEIRD!


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## k-morelli (Jun 22, 2011)

the sponge picture looks like a fun house mirror. on another note that's terrible that it happened.. have you thought about contacting the maker? it seems documented well enough to at least raise a concern with them, what's the worst that could come of it


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## CALIFORNIA KID (Nov 21, 2010)

you might be interested in this thread. I had the same problem with a NUB

http://www.cigarforums.net/forums/vb/general-cigar-discussion/288236-nub-problems.html


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## Rock31 (Sep 30, 2010)

LPs smoke much better closer to 60 but what happened to your cigar is just weird....could have been previously stored at 70+ and your two weeks didn't do much to it....if you have another bury it for a few months at 62 or less.


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## CALIFORNIA KID (Nov 21, 2010)

Rock31 said:


> LPs smoke much better closer to 60 but what happened to your cigar is just weird....could have been previously stored at 70+ and your two weeks didn't do much to it....if you have another bury it for a few months at 62 or less.


agree.

I have dry boxed my ligas for a week some times. they smoke way better dryer.


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## RetiredNavyIC (Jun 3, 2011)

Sounds like the sponginess you describe (and display, great pics!) was a sign of a poorly/loosely rolled cigar. This caused tunneling and the result is the charcoal plug. It doesn't seem to me that you would be at fault. You just received a bad stick. Sorry it happened to you.

Edit: Oops didn't notice the 2 weeks rest. Yeah maybe a little more rest, could also have been over humidified.


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## RGraphics (Apr 9, 2011)

wonder if you had a bug living in there for a while, built a nest then died.


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## Mr_mich (Sep 2, 2010)

Sounds to me like poorly rolled cigar. I know LP smoke better at low RH but even if it was at 70rh it should never do that. 


I wonder if you can contact the manufacture if they would do anything about it. I know it's only $12 but if it was my company i would care about every customer and every smoking experience.


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## CALIFORNIA KID (Nov 21, 2010)

Mr_mich said:


> Sounds to me like poorly rolled cigar. I know LP smoke better at low RH but even if it was at 70rh it should never do that.
> 
> I wonder if you can contact the manufacture if they would do anything about it. I know it's only $12 but if it was my company i would care about every customer and every smoking experience.


I agree you should send an email. Worst that happens is you waste 5 min.


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## castaweb (Apr 24, 2011)

CALIFORNIA KID said:


> you might be interested in this thread. I had the same problem with a NUB
> 
> http://www.cigarforums.net/forums/vb/general-cigar-discussion/288236-nub-problems.html


Eerily similar. We are BOTC (Brother Of The Coal!)


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## castaweb (Apr 24, 2011)

Rock31 said:


> LPs smoke much better closer to 60 but what happened to your cigar is just weird....could have been previously stored at 70+ and your two weeks didn't do much to it....if you have another bury it for a few months at 62 or less.


This is possible but not likely in my opinion. The humi has been opened and closed at least 25-30 times since the Pig's went to sleep. There is no way that they are not equalized with the rest of the sticks in there. Everything in there smokes great. It has been nearly a month since they were sent from a reputable retail store and I left them out of the humi for 2 days before I put them in.

I could see not being able to keep it lit if it was overhumidified but the spongy stuff is nuts. I wasn't putting that much pressure on it either.

Also something I neglected to include in my original post. I dry boxed this cigar for 8 hours.


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## Scott W. (Jul 10, 2008)

Yeah bro, looks like a cross between a possible construction issue and or, it never properly stabilized. Sorry you had a bad experience.


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## fivespdcat (Nov 16, 2010)

Not sure what happened to that LP, definitely looks like a construction issue, but this has to be the post with the most mentions of WTF. And no, that is not a good thing...


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## castaweb (Apr 24, 2011)

I do acknowledge that this could just be a bad cigar. If so, it is a damn expensive cigar and that sucks. I am really a fan of all the Drew Estate stuff I have tried. I have never had a poorly made stick nor have I heard about one. I know there is always a first time but they have a really good quality record.

As far as more rest. The cigars are the 501st box of 3,250 boxes made in 2010. I have to think that they are a year or more old. Can't see how more rest would make that much difference. I really feel like they are at the same RH as everything in the humi. On the other hand, you might be right.



RetiredNavyIC said:


> Sounds like the sponginess you describe (and display, great pics!) was a sign of a poorly/loosely rolled cigar. This caused tunneling and the result is the charcoal plug. It doesn't seem to me that you would be at fault. You just received a bad stick. Sorry it happened to you.
> 
> Edit: Oops didn't notice the 2 weeks rest. Yeah maybe a little more rest, could also have been over humidified.


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## castaweb (Apr 24, 2011)

I agree that if it was my company, I would want to know. I will send them some info about it and see what, if anything they say.



Mr_mich said:


> Sounds to me like poorly rolled cigar. I know LP smoke better at low RH but even if it was at 70rh it should never do that.
> 
> I wonder if you can contact the manufacture if they would do anything about it. I know it's only $12 but if it was my company i would care about every customer and every smoking experience.


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## Kampaigner (Jan 28, 2011)

To put it simply, time. They need to rest for quite awhile. I had some Punch Punch Maduros that did the exact same thing to me. After two weeks bam crazy wet coaly junk. I let them rest for another month to a month and a half and golden. 

I smoke my T52's at 70 RH. With no issues and love'em. Believe me my friend.they just need more time to chill out. Just let them sit for another month from now and then have another. You should be good to go then.


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## fanman1 (Sep 6, 2010)

I'm sorry this happened but I must say your pictures are beautiful


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## Zogg (Aug 31, 2010)

send drew estates a picture of you squeezing that LP and say it was very obviously not packed with enough tobacco to the point where it just fizzed out and sucked completely.

Worst thing that could happen is they say "sorry man, we'll look into it"

I've seen other companies (I'm not saying try to get free cigars but you deserve your piggy experience!) give a box to someone when they receive a crap cigar and get a hold of the company about it

That is obviously a construction issue, no cigar magically fills itself with more tobacco over time, and if it was too wet for the wrapper to burn as quickly, it wouldn't have chugged right though and concaved so quickly you probably would have just had draw issues and had it go out a lot.

definitely get a hold of drew estate!


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## castaweb (Apr 24, 2011)

Paul,



Zogg said:


> send drew estates a picture of you squeezing that LP and say it was very obviously not packed with enough tobacco to the point where it just fizzed out and sucked completely.
> 
> Worst thing that could happen is they say "sorry man, we'll look into it"
> 
> ...


Thanks for the thoughtful reply.

I have to say that you made a great point that was obvious and I should have been able to see it myself. The cigar would not "magically" fill itself. As a matter of fact, I would think that if the tobacco were too wet as has been mentioned here, then the cigar would have been a little overful with wet, swolen leaves. I am not sure if the logic is correct but I respect your opinion. Thanks.

FYI all, I did send an email to Drew Estate. I am not sure what they will do but they have a great rep so we will see. I will keep you posted.


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## Zogg (Aug 31, 2010)

castaweb said:


> Paul,
> 
> Thanks for the thoughtful reply.
> 
> ...


that was my thought process, im not a "noob" anymore, but I'm still no cigar expert, so i just went off of my experience with over-humidified sticks!

Keep us up to date on if/when/how they get back to you!


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## COYOTE JLR (Sep 21, 2009)

I'm sorry that you had such a poor experience with what should have been (and has been in my experience) a phenomenal cigar. 

I think it's a good thing that you emailed Drew Estate. They're a fantastic company and from everything that I have seen of JD, he is a passionate cigar enthusiast and businessman as well as just a standup guy. I would think that they'd take care of you. I know of the one or two messed up LP experiences I've seen others have in the past, the way that JD&co responded went a long way in cementing some serious loyalty in me.


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## ktblunden (Oct 7, 2010)

castaweb said:


> As far as more rest. The cigars are the 501st box of 3,250 boxes made in 2010. I have to think that they are a year or more old. Can't see how more rest would make that much difference. I really feel like they are at the same RH as everything in the humi. On the other hand, you might be right.


Here's the thing. If the B&M you bought them from stored them at 70% (which a lot of stores do), two weeks in your humi is not enough time for them to have stabilized, particularly being inside a box. It takes a good long while for something with a ring gauge that thick to be the same RH all the way through. To expand a little more on it, the box itself is also starting from the higher RH. Until the excess humidity leaches out of the wood, that will continue maintain the higher RH in the cigars as well. I explain all this to just give you a better understanding of it.

All that being said, however, I agree that a high humidity probably couldn't make a well constructed cigar that hollow in the middle. It was most likely a construction issue, but I would give the rest of those a good long rest before trying another one just to be sure. I'm glad you sent an email. JD is a really good guy who stands behind his product 100%.


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## ckay (May 10, 2010)

JD and Saka will take care of you. Not a doubt in my mind about that.


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## thegoldenmackid (Mar 16, 2010)

ckay said:


> JD and Saka will take care of you. Not a doubt in my mind about that.


This. Send Drew Estate an e-mail. They will get you the premium cigar that you paid for.


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## ocolon53 (Jun 19, 2010)

castaweb said:


> Eerily similar. We are BOTC (Brother Of The Coal!)


Add me to this list. The worst was that this happened to me while driving, so there was nothing I could do but chuck it.

I've also had it happen with a JDN Antano, so I burried the ones I have left in the bottom of the humi to try at a later date.


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## BMack (Dec 8, 2010)

That squeezing picture is absolutely hilarious!

Hope they do take good care of you, that's really sucky that was your first experience with a cigar you looked forward to.


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## TonyBrooklyn (Jan 28, 2010)

castaweb said:


> So, today's the day. I have let these Pig's rest in the humi for 2+ weeks now. I have been looking so forward to smoking one of these but I was determined to be patient so I could have the "best" that these things could give. They have been in my humi that is a rock solid 65-66 RH for going on 3 weeks. This is going to be great!
> 
> Look at this little beauty. Lovely color and neat shape.
> 
> ...


I tried some that were gifted me!
I remember saying WTF? as well!


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## castaweb (Apr 24, 2011)

TonyBrooklyn said:


> I tried some that were gifted me!
> I remember saying WTF? as well!


Were they the same problems?


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## castaweb (Apr 24, 2011)

FYI, I emailed a short description of the issue and a link to this thread to Drew Estate yesterday evening. No word from them today.


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## ssaka (Oct 28, 2007)

castaweb said:


> So, today's the day. I have let these Pig's rest in the humi for 2+ weeks now. I have been looking so forward to smoking one of these but I was determined to be patient so I could have the "best" that these things could give. They have been in my humi that is a rock solid 65-66 RH for going on 3 weeks. This is going to be great!


Castaweb,

First off let me apologize for the piss poor cigar and know that I will personally replace the box of cigars from my personal stash since we have none left in inventory.

Please email me your snail mail and I will make it right. Liga Privada is our ultra-premium product and we always stand 100% behind it when it comes to any quality related issue.

We do everything possible to ensure each of these cigars our of the highest possible caliber, but ultimately it is a handmade product constructed out of all natural tobacco which regretfully results in the occasional bad cigar.

Sponginess is extremely odd for this blend given the tobaccos utilized and how it is constructed. As you will commonly read this is a cigar that tends to smoke at its optimum when it is at a lower humidity which is typically a reflection of it heavy leaf recipe that is bunched in the lazy entubado style that we employ on this particular product line.

It is very difficult for me to tell you exactly the problem with this particular cigar was without having dissected it myself. Had I had the luxury <cough> of smoking it I would have stopped doing so right in the beginning so I could have torn it apart and then I could provide you a more definite answer as to why this cigar burned as it did.

That being said, I can tell you with 100% certainty that the problem had absolutely nothing to do with improper storage humidity.

I can also tell you that this cigar did not taste or smell like we the makers intended.

Please keep my caveat in mind, but thanks to your detailed description and photos I think I can provide everyone some insight as to what I believe was wrong with this particular cigar.

I actually believe there were TWO problems with this cigar.

# 1 - A "bad" leaf of ligero - I say this because of your "black coal" description. What do I mean by bad? It is hard to describe via type, so bear with me.

In reality this wasn't actually a bad leaf (hence my quotations), but rather a leaf that was different than it sisters from the same crop and priming and/or texture. Different in that it for whatever reason nature resulted in it having a much higher natural resin level than the other leafs that are from the same crop of similar thickness.

This abnormally high resin content means that while the leaf is being bulked in pilons along with the other 5,000+ lbs of like tobacco this particular leaf regretfully does not ferment completely. The only way for us to know when a bulk is ultimately ready to be broken down for the final time and for the leaf to be bale aged is by proofing it, feeling it, and smoking it.

Now obviously if we smoked every leaf to tell if a bulk was ready we would have no tobacco, so what we do is regularly pull sample hands from the pilons and test those and from these sampled results we can tell whether the bulk is ready or requires another turn.

But in any given bulk there will always be a few leaves that are extra-grasso and do not ferment 100%. This is typically not a problem in your thinner leaf varieties such as Piloto Cubano or even seco & viso primings of Nica-grown Habano Seed, but it is unavoidable in the extra-heavy leaf like the ASP Esteli Ligero utilized in this particular blend.

When I say unavoidable you have to keep in mind that 99.999% is ready and there really no way for us to tell that these few random fatty leaves could have used more time. And the result is occasionally you will be the unlucky recipient of one of these leafs, it will burn very hot, almost like a wick and the excess resin will congeal into a black tar resulting in the lump of coal experience.

Honestly that explanation is not perfect, I keep retyping it, but this is really something I could better explain in person while showing you some tobacco that is at various stages in its bulking process and showing it to you as we proofed it. FYI, "proofing" is when we stretch a sample leaf, pinch crack it, ignite the tear and then observe the burn characteristic of the leaf while inhaling the smoke through our noses.

The bottomline is the "black coal" issue happens randomly due to nature almost exclusively in heavy ligeros and it is regretfully unavoidable. Anyone that smokes a lot of uber-heavy smokes will eventually experience this and imo, you should just throw away the cigar because it will not taste as the blender intended.

#2 - I believe this particular cigar is missing one of the visos and an extra leaf of ligero was added by mistake instead. This I cannot be certain of without having dissected the cigar myself, but looking at the sponginess after it was lit, the way the tunneling appears and your final photo I am pretty sure this was the case.

I have a longwinded answer as to why I think this base on the pictures, but honestly this is even harder for me to explain via type. So please forgive if I do not try to.

However unlike #1, this was and is avoidable and was simply a mistake the bunchero made. Why? Because he is human&#8230; what I do know is that ALL of the Flying Pigs are made by just three pairs (a bunchero & rolera) and this type of mistake is extremely uncommon as our LP pairs are our absolute best.

Whew&#8230; anyone still actually reading this?

In summary: the cigar you got was f'cked up, we are genuinely sorry you had such a bad experience with Liga Privada, please email me your snail mail so I can get you what you paid for and rightly deserve and hopefully make it up to you.

Please know we greatly appreciate your taking the time to write this post. Albeit critical of the cigar and rightly so, you were detailed, fair minded in your tone and provided a lot of photos that allowed me to reply in much more insightful way than is typically possible with an online complaint.

And finally, much thanks for also adding in your post the fact that you had smoked 15 of our cigars in the last 3 months and that each of those smoked flawlessly. Although we will never be able to make every handmade cigar flawless, it is always the goal we strive for.

BR,

Steve Saka
President, Drew Estate
saka @ drewestate.com


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## Kampaigner (Jan 28, 2011)

Wow...great answer!


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## ssaka (Oct 28, 2007)

PS: Drew Estate is a big company, we got about 1,000 employees so I have no clue as to who in heck even gets emails that are sent to many of our addresses... I bet in about week someone brings me a copy of it though... I am kinda curious to see...

STS


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## dragonhead08 (Feb 3, 2011)

wow, that was super informative. All cigar manufacturers should take notes on how to treat customers. makes me feel good about my recent purchase of No. 9's. I accept that being handmade we are bound to get some bad sticks occasionally and this is a great example of a company standing behind their product. Also good to know that their sticks smoke better in lower RH.


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## jakesmokes (Mar 10, 2011)

Great answer. Very cool read.

Also, +1 on the dry boxing. I have found that the T-52s I have smoked have all tasted better when they dry boxed for at least a couple of days. I've had only one pig and it was pretty fabulous.


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## thegoldenmackid (Mar 16, 2010)

And that is why Liga is Liga.


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## Cigar Noob (May 22, 2011)

ssaka said:


> PS: Drew Estate is a big company, we got about 1,000 employees so I have no clue as to who in heck even gets emails that are sent to many of our addresses... I bet in about week someone brings me a copy of it though... I am kinda curious to see...
> 
> STS


And you my friend "get it". I am yet to have my first LP (was just gifted a t52 piggy last week) but this is certainly the kind of attention to detail that gets my attention. I know how others rave about these and will consider this experience the exception to the rule. These certainly pass the eye and smell test... can't wait for the taste test! Keep up the fantastic work Steve.


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## smelvis (Sep 7, 2009)

ssaka said:


> Castaweb,
> 
> First off let me apologize for the piss poor cigar and know that I will personally replace the box of cigars from my personal stash since we have none left in inventory.
> 
> ...


Hi Steve
Welcome to Puff hope to see a man of your integrity here more often, wow what a way to make a man happy!! I love many of your cigars and love your response WTG Brother!! :rockon:

smelvis/Puff Member

Oops sorry I see you have been a member longer than me, but still welcome anyway


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## castaweb (Apr 24, 2011)

Thanks for the response Steve. I know that you cannot be certain what went wrong with this individual cigar but I can tell that you really gave it some thought and gave me the most likely explanation you could offer. With your knowledge and experience, I am sure that the conditions you describe are the the most plausable reason for what happened.

I am glad that I contacted you as well. Initially, I had no intention of doing so but was prompted to by some of the members of the board. I am very pleased that you responded because instead of feeling disappointed with Drew Estate based on this small (but significant to me) hiccup, I can now be impressed with you because you handled the problem with care and consideration. It's true, I have smoked a fair number of your cigars recently and I don't view this incident and any reason to stop.

Thanks again Steve and one of your employees contacted me so I will get my info emailed back to them.


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## k-morelli (Jun 22, 2011)

Great Customer Service and a Truly Nice guy for what he's doing to remedy this problem. If I haven't purchased from Drew Estate before this would definitely persuade me to do so


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## bcannon87 (Sep 8, 2010)

Freakin awesome!! That is the portrait of great customer service!!!


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## Rays98GoVols (Sep 22, 2008)

ssaka said:


> Castaweb,
> 
> First off let me apologize for the piss poor cigar and know that I will personally replace the box of cigars from my personal stash since we have none left in inventory.
> 
> ...


Now this is how you handle customers. Customer Service is a lost art, but not at Drew Estate.

I smoke the #9 Belicoso and T52 Belicoso regularly (and love them) without a problem. It's good to know if I have a problem Drew Estate will back them up and make it right.


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## BigDaddyBry (Jun 13, 2010)

Class act all the way. Makes me feel a whole lot better about the $$ i drop on ligas. Can't wait to try the undercrown, L40 and the MF-13. 

"Oh i could put alot more Ligas on the market, but they ain't gonna taste like Ligas"-JD


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## rjacobs (Aug 9, 2011)

:rockon:to Steve Saka.

Most companies would not come on a web forum and give an in depth explanation and say they ****ed up. They would come on and do damage control and try to not take the blame. I have only ever had one Drew Estate cigar, but I will for sure try some more after reading this.


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## Mutombo (Aug 3, 2010)

Awesome reply Steve. And that's one of the (many) reasons I smoke Liga.


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## xobrian (Mar 29, 2011)

ssaka said:


> Castaweb,
> 
> First off let me apologize for the piss poor cigar and know that I will personally replace the box of cigars from my personal stash since we have none left in inventory.
> 
> ...


Wow great explanation Steve! Thanks for taking the time to tell us all of that, I found it quite interesting.

Also I'd just like to tell you that you guys do a great job with the LP line, I have several boxes I am working on smoking through, almost every single one has perfect construction & taste. I am really looking forward to the releases later this year! :bounce:

Keep up the good work!


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## ckay (May 10, 2010)

thegoldenmackid said:


> And that is why Liga is Liga.


Yup.


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## Rock31 (Sep 30, 2010)

Awesome! You can't ask for anything more from a company.


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## ktblunden (Oct 7, 2010)

You know, a lot of companies would have ignored the issue completely and never responded. Others would have posted a quick apology and offered to make it right. I don't know of too many other companies where the president would take the time to type up such a detailed explanation as to *why* the problem occurred in addition to offering to make it right. Fantastic job Steve, it's good to know when a company stands behind their product. I love LP cigars, and I love them just a little bit more after reading that. Thanks man.


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## Zogg (Aug 31, 2010)

oh god this thread is full of obnoxiously-long quotes.. 

anyway..

I'm definitely grabbing more LP stuff, ive always liked drew estate for some reason or another, but this helps "seal the deal"

is it the same "team" handling the undercrown and uzi weighs a ton releases, even though theyre technically not "liga privada"? Cause im probably going in and buying a box of each "blind" so to speak


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## bwhite220 (May 15, 2011)

I just bought my first box of cigars tonight! Because of Steve's response, I bought a box of #9s AND a second box of T52s! Thanks for all that you do, Steve.


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## zeebra (Mar 26, 2010)

Love the Liga Privada line! Love the toro the most! Funny I saw this thread and I got a DPG 1922 Box pressed torp today that is doing the same thing! Might have to email DPG.

But that is a great response by Mr.Saka and a great company to deal with! Just sad that LP are getting tougher and tougher to find! Glad I'm as stocked up as I can be with them.


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## Scott W. (Jul 10, 2008)

Steve, Great explanation and good on you for taking the time to reply in such detail, you have a prodyct worth standing behind. I have smoked and enjoyed the Liga Privada line immensly with no flaws to date so your point about " to err is human" must be correct. Thank you for being so stand up, Happy smoking.

SW


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## nealw6971 (Jul 8, 2011)

ssaka said:


> Castaweb,
> 
> First off let me apologize for the piss poor cigar and know that I will personally replace the box of cigars from my personal stash since we have none left in inventory.
> 
> ...


First of all... wow. Secondly... Steve, you have me as a customer for life. Anyone who is willing to go to this length to provide the highest standard of customer service to a customer deserves to have my business.

I will be enjoying my first Liga after it has rested for awhile. I'm also a fan of the Acid line (love the Hawg), Tabak Especial and Opulence. I'm also looking forward to my first mazo of Uzis. And after reading your post (yes, I read all of it), I am sold on Drew Estate 100%.

Thank you for taking the time to post here in a forum where we have so many brothers who appreciate fine cigars. I am truly amazed because in this day and age, no one usually gives a sh*t.

You have my business from here in perpetuity because it's obvious that you care.

Thank you!


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## nealw6971 (Jul 8, 2011)

BTW, if any brothers haven't added RG to Steve Saka, I'd like to know why not?


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## jdfutureman (Sep 20, 2010)

That's good stuff and is consistent with the JD interview I watched and enjoyed immensly.


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## Zogg (Aug 31, 2010)

I need to try that dirty rat ive had sitting, the other LP's arent exactly vitolas i like (though piggy's are cool as hell). I can see myself snagging a box of those if i like em (yet to try no.9 blend only t52)


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## CALIFORNIA KID (Nov 21, 2010)

Zogg said:


> I need to try that dirty rat ive had sitting, the other LP's arent exactly vitolas i like (though piggy's are cool as hell). I can see myself snagging a box of those if i like em (yet to try no.9 blend only t52)


I love LP, but I agree with the size thing. I wish thy would make a corona


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## thegoldenmackid (Mar 16, 2010)

Zogg said:


> oh god this thread is full of obnoxiously-long quotes..
> 
> anyway..
> 
> ...


I can't answer this question as well as Saka, but...

Liga Privada and Undercrown are both made at Drew Estate.

MUWAT is made at Joya De Nicaragua. I know there has been a lot of effort that has been put in by the Drew Estate team at JDN at almost every level of the cigar.

Quality control at Drew Estate is quite incredible and it shows. While I don't smoke ACID or frankly anything that DE makes besides Liga Privada, the consistency of Liga Privada is at the top of the game in my experience, right alongside Padrón and Davidoff.


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## Partially Deaf (Jun 25, 2011)

Wow, I am very impressed by the stand up service from Drew Estates.


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## tobacmon (May 17, 2007)

Great to see you around Steve.. I remember when you first arrived. This is why many here keep coming back--its people like you. 

Well Done Sir!


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## FWTX (Feb 9, 2011)

ssaka said:


> Whew&#8230; anyone still actually reading this?
> 
> BR,
> 
> ...


Steve - Are you kidding???
Keep going - we live for this stuff on PUFF!
I could read this kind of first hand information for hours.

And thanks for confirming something that I had posted on before about a member with a problem cigar (not an LP) that on occasion an over resinous leaf can slip by all the QC.
Your response was terrific and I am now a loyal Drew Estate / Liga Privada devotee. I have some #9's waiting at home - I'll smoke one to your health.


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## andrprosh (Apr 5, 2011)

This is exactly why this place is amazing.


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## lord sevein (Aug 31, 2010)

Major props to Steve and Drew Estate for not only making this right, but taking the time to propose several explanations as to why it happened in the first place. THAT is customer service.

I haven't smoked anything by Drew except the Isla del Sols (bought a box of those ;p) but this alone has convinced me to start. A company that would go this far to correct a mistake is definitely worth a look (or a box) from me.

What do you guys suggest?


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## NoShhhSherlock (Mar 30, 2011)

That sponge picture looks amazing, sad but amazing. It does not happen often but sometimes you just get a bad stick, very strange though.


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## BMack (Dec 8, 2010)

It's responses like this that make this industry and hobby soo worthwhile. Even the guys at the top are part of this close community.


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## ProbateGeek (Oct 13, 2010)

ssaka said:


> . . . And the result is occasionally you will be the unlucky recipient of one of these leafs, *it will burn very hot, almost like a wick and the excess resin will congeal into a black tar* resulting in the lump of coal experience.
> Steve Saka
> President, Drew Estate
> saka @ drewestate.com


I'm very late to this, but have to say this is one of the coolest threads I've read on puff. Amazing customer service makes me want to go out and buy some more Drew Estate wonders.

But it also reminds me of something that happened to me with a 6-stick sampler of DE Naturals I got from CI (still available, I think) when I was first starting with cigars. All but one were fine, though very different from the ACID line I had been enjoying. For some unknown reason, almost from the start the Green Hero burned with a putrid, black, oily smoke that tasted and smelled exactly like burning plastic. Really, REALLY nasty stuff - I was afraid to even breath it. This was back before I was active on this forum (too bad), but it was quite bad - after a few puffs I was done, and was glad I was in my garage and not in the house. Of course, I immediately cut the cigar apart to find the piece of plastic I was sure was in there. Nothing - just some stinky, slightly damp, dark tobacco.

Could this have been a similar occurrence as Matt's? Doesn't seem likely, without knowing what type of leaf is used in a Green Hero (I don't think they're even made anymore). I will never forget that smoke though - reminded me of the old tar-pot signal devices they used to use on highway construction/repair sites. Black, oily, smelly - very weird.

I was always curious about that one, and am very glad this worked out in the end for you Matt. Which reminds me: when we getting together for that Portland herf? :eyebrows:

Still waiting on the ACID line of pipe tobaccos, too, if Steve's still around!

:ss


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## sengjc (Nov 15, 2010)

Glad to see active feedback from a major industry player.

The few T52s I have been fortunate to enjoy, one DC and a Torp, have not had issues described. Still got one more of each plus a pair in the Robustos and a fiver of the Pigs ageing away. As for the #9s, a fiver of the Toros and a Pig plus a couple of Dirty Rats.

DEs are very rare in Australia, almost non-existent, a real shame.

Can hardly wait to get my hands on some Undercrowns.


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