# Bar codes removed



## PJD (Aug 15, 2009)

Hi all,
I'd like to pick the brain of the hive mind here. I got two boxes of goodies delivered today. They look and smell spectacular, no visible cues of wrongness, but what irked me is that the bar codes had been removed and the boxes opened. I don't really mind if the vendor inspects prior to shipment (in fact I consider that a good thing) but I'm uneasy about getting boxes without bar-codes; i.e. grey market or perhaps even black-market stock. Do most (or all) vendors do this now? Should I be looking for a new vendor (feel free to PM with your thoughts if you like). 

I've bought from this source in the past and the cigars are definitely first-rate -- he even has some nice, older box-codes on occasion. Since I got blacklisted from one major vendor I'm loathe to #[email protected]! off another one if all y'all think the issue is nothing to worry about.


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## protekk (Oct 18, 2010)

I saw your other post and to my eyes I see nothing to make me think they are not legit. Most vendors I have used (and have used a bunch recently) remove the barcode.


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## asmartbull (Aug 16, 2009)

Pete
VERY common with certain vendors.
Rest easy, all is good


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## PJD (Aug 15, 2009)

I'm sure that they're not counterfeit so I'm not worried on that front, but the whole thing kinda irks me more than a bit. Other than LCDH is this normal behavior?


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## szyzk (Nov 27, 2010)

asmartbull said:


> Pete
> VERY common with certain vendors.
> Rest easy, all is good


Agreed, Bullman knows what's up. I've seen a few vendors do this - and not even with every order I've placed. Needless to say, the cigars were always wonderful and I let the lack of barcode slip my mind.


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## Mante (Dec 25, 2009)

PJD said:


> Other than LCDH is this normal behavior?


Yes.


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## usrower321 (Mar 27, 2011)

My barcodes were removed from my most recent order of psd4 10 box and it was my first order from the vendor so I was a little leery of it until I did some research and everything on the box checked out. Mine did come sealed though. Those sticks look top notch so I would put it out of your mind.


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## BamaDoc77 (Jan 31, 2007)

Rest easy, the proof is in your mouth, not in a barcode. Smoke in peace my friend.


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## PJD (Aug 15, 2009)

I've enjoyed about 100 sticks more or less from these guys (with another hundred or so napping) and zero complaints with the product. So as I said up-thread I'm not worried in the slightest that they could be fakes or anything like that. It's more of an aesthetic and peace-of-mind kind of thing. i.e. not liking the fact it's been tampered with, regardless of how meaningless that statement is. But since this is now common practice I'll consider the matter closed and will puff away happily


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## karmaz00 (Dec 5, 2007)

alot of vendors (overseas) i have seen this quite a few times, should be ok, enjoy the cigars... never seen this in cuba, this would raise a flag for me....as long as u trust your vendor, this is nothing to worry about...enjoy the cigars


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## bpegler (Mar 30, 2006)

The vendors don't remove the tags. The distributors do.
Distributors are only able to sell in their region, but a lot of cigars get piled up in one place, and are needed in another. So magically they move, even though this is against HSA policy. Those boxes then magically get their bar codes removed, so no one can prove distributors are breaking the rules.

This is what is know as the grey market. Or, the semi free market at work.

The cigars are fine. All the counterfeit boxes have their super duper holograms intact.


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## szyzk (Nov 27, 2010)

PJD said:


> It's more of an aesthetic and peace-of-mind kind of thing. i.e. not liking the fact it's been tampered with, regardless of how meaningless that statement is. But since this is now common practice I'll consider the matter closed and will puff away happily


It would be wonderful to track these back, but as it is we're already enjoying something that's verboten. I had a WTH? moment the first time I received a box missing some of the stickers, but once I had a better understanding of the "distribution" of these cigars I gave up worrying about them being tampered with.


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## Richterscale (Jan 8, 2011)

bpegler said:


> The vendors don't remove the tags. The distributors do.
> Distributors are only able to sell in their region, but a lot of cigars get piled up in one place, and are needed in another. So magically they move, even though this is against HSA policy. Those boxes then magically get their bar codes removed, so no one can prove distributors are breaking the rules.
> 
> This is what is know as the grey market. Or, the semi free market at work.
> ...


+1 They do it because they can be tracked and discovered to be selling on the grey market as opposed to HSA sanctioned.


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## PJD (Aug 15, 2009)

So who does HSA sanction? I'm not asking for names of vendors obviously, just the general class. Obviously LCDH's retail locations would leave them on but what other classes of vendor? I'm guessing major high-turnover B&Ms in big markets (Germany, Spain, Asia, the UK, etc)?


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## Vitulla (Aug 6, 2011)

thanks for clearing this up. Had a box come in before Xmas and was a little worried. Good to know!


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## Mante (Dec 25, 2009)

bpegler said:


> All the counterfeit boxes have their super duper holograms intact.


ound: Well, it would be funny if it was not so true. :thumb:


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## bpegler (Mar 30, 2006)

PJD said:


> So who does HSA sanction? I'm not asking for names of vendors obviously, just the general class. Obviously LCDH's retail locations would leave them on but what other classes of vendor? I'm guessing major high-turnover B&Ms in big markets (Germany, Spain, Asia, the UK, etc)?


All the legitimate vendors are authorized dealers. I'm reasonably sure yours is. Therefore, all the cigars are the same. Over time you will get some boxes with barcodes, and some without. But there will be no difference in quality.

A PSD4 bought at a LCdH, and one bought from a legitimate online retailer are the same.

The LCdHs do get preferential treatment with access to REs and LCdH banded cigars, but most of these end up on the grey market as well. For instance, I recently purchased some Upmann Royal Robustos, a LCdH banded cigar, from an authorized dealer who isn't a LCdH.

Happens all the time.


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## TonyBrooklyn (Jan 28, 2010)

BamaDoc77 said:


> Rest easy, the proof is in your mouth, not in a barcode. Smoke in peace my friend.


Words of wisdom listen to Bama you don't smoke the stickers bands or boxes. The taste of the cigar is the bottom line.


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## Mante (Dec 25, 2009)

As per usual the Cuban market is as clear as mud. This is a good thing if you think on it re the embargo. Those of us that can buy cuban cigars legally do not see a real issue here as we trust our vendors. There is one, and only one B&M in my town that stocks legit Cuban cigars. Are they LCDH authorized? No. They do however only stock authentic cigars and many on this forum have tasted them. As you grow in this hobby you will learn what is trustworthy & what is not, your taste buds will educate you.


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## PJD (Aug 15, 2009)

I think for me it harkens back to my mis-spent yoot. Whenever I bought an LP, part of the fun wasn't just enjoying the music, but _popping the album's cherry_ as my buddy called it--taking off the shrink-wrap, removing the pristine liner and record out of the sleeve; when everything was perfect. That carried on to CDs/DVDs and electronic goodies. There's a great deal of satisfaction to be had when you not just buy a new gizmo but unseal the box and peel off the plastic protecting the screen/shiny-surface, etc.

I take that same small enjoyment with my stogies...cutting through the box seals, opening up the box, gently removing the thin cedar sheet and Habanos SA slip, getting that rush of t'baccygoodness aroma (and being glad I don't get a whiff of ammonia), and gazing upon perfect mould-free/beetle-free sticks all lined up in a perfect dark-to-light row, like soldiers at attention.

Call my crazy, but I feel cheated whenever anything mutes one of those little bits of personal satisfaction. Consider it cigar foreplay (and not in the Monica sense of the word ). The tease before is often as powerful as the glow after. Sometimes more!


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## TonyBrooklyn (Jan 28, 2010)

PJD said:


> I think for me it harkens back to my mis-spent yoot. Whenever I bought an LP, part of the fun wasn't just enjoying the music, but popping the album's cherry as my buddy called it--taking off the shrink-wrap, taking the pristine liner and record out of the sleeve, everything perfect. That carried on to CDs/DVDs and electronic goodies; there's a great deal of satisfaction to be had when you not just buy a new gizmo but unseal the box and peel off the plastic protecting the screen/shiny-surface, etc. I take that same small enjoyment with my stogies...cutting through the box seals and seeing everything pristine and exact, getting that rush of t'baccygoodness (and being glad I don't get a whiff of ammonia), seeing perfect mould-free/beetle-free sticks all lined up in a perfect dark-to-light row, like soldiers at attention.
> 
> Call my crazy, but I feel cheated whenever anything mutes one of those little bits of personal satisfaction. Consider it cigar foreplay (and not in the Monica sense of the word ).


Change vendors there are those that ship in sealed intact boxes with seals intact. Why cheat yourself if that part of it gives you pleasure. The only thing that bothers me is the embargo. The only time i get to walk into a humidor filled with Cuban cigars is when i travel. For me that is the best part of cigar smoking so i understand what you are saying. Buying cigars online cheats me of that experience.


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## PJD (Aug 15, 2009)

I hear ya, that's for sure. When I was in Munich last summer I walked into a pretty big B&M and got the full tour of the well-stocked humi. Yummm. Ditto whenever I hit the LCDH in Montréal. The walk-in at Cigar Inn on 2nd Avenue is almost as good, despite their not selling the real stuff.


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## lebz (Mar 26, 2011)

bpegler said:


> The vendors don't remove the tags. The distributors do.
> Distributors are only able to sell in their region, but a lot of cigars get piled up in one place, and are needed in another. So magically they move, even though this is against HSA policy. Those boxes then magically get their bar codes removed, so no one can prove distributors are breaking the rules.
> 
> This is what is know as the grey market. Or, the semi free market at work.
> ...


I had this before.. no worries.. if it looks good.. taste amazing.. smells like glory.. then its all good. As Tony mentioned if it upsets you switch up the vendor!


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## Mante (Dec 25, 2009)

I think you are over thinking this hobby to be honest. If the cigars are good then they are good. Trust your vendor. End of story.:spy:layball:


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## JGD (Mar 2, 2009)

PJD said:


> So who does HSA sanction? I'm not asking for names of vendors obviously, just the general class. Obviously LCDH's retail locations would leave them on but what other classes of vendor? I'm guessing major high-turnover B&Ms in big markets (Germany, Spain, Asia, the UK, etc)?


The stores or distributors that would get have some issues would be those who were originally sent the the boxes to be sold, but then flipped them to an online vendor to be sold. The reason the bar codes are removed is so that HSA cannot tell who the box was originally sold to. So, if the distributor for Spain received 10,000 boxes, that were meant to be distributed to licensed vendors in Spain, but instead only distributed 8,000 boxes within Spain and sold the remaining 2,000 boxes to a company in Switzerland who has as unauthorized internet business and HSA got ahold of a box from said internet business with a bar code saying that it was meant to be distributed in Spain, the Spanish distributor would get fined or would have their next allotment docked.


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## casadooley (Jul 11, 2006)

So let me see if I've got the story straight: You received Cuban cigars, in America, that you have verified are legit, yet you are upset that the boxes are not pristine? My advise to you Bro is to pour yourself a glass of your favorite libation, fire up one of so said cigars and chill. There are WAY bigger things to worry about in our world. :wink: Just my 2 cents and worth as much.


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## TonyBrooklyn (Jan 28, 2010)

casadooley said:


> So let me see if I've got the story straight: You received Cuban cigars, in America, that you have verified are legit, yet you are upset that the boxes are not pristine? My advise to you Bro is to pour yourself a glass of your favorite libation, fire up one of so said cigars and chill. There are WAY bigger things to worry about in our world. :wink: Just my 2 cents and worth as much.


Hey Kevin great to see you posting again and your post is spot on!
Peace my brother!


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## doomXsaloon (Jul 25, 2011)

PJD said:


> I think for me it harkens back to my mis-spent yoot. Whenever I bought an LP, part of the fun wasn't just enjoying the music, but _popping the album's cherry_ as my buddy called it--taking off the shrink-wrap, removing the pristine liner and record out of the sleeve; when everything was perfect. That carried on to CDs/DVDs and electronic goodies. There's a great deal of satisfaction to be had when you not just buy a new gizmo but unseal the box and peel off the plastic protecting the screen/shiny-surface, etc.
> 
> I take that same small enjoyment with my stogies...cutting through the box seals, opening up the box, gently removing the thin cedar sheet and Habanos SA slip, getting that rush of t'baccygoodness aroma (and being glad I don't get a whiff of ammonia), and gazing upon perfect mould-free/beetle-free sticks all lined up in a perfect dark-to-light row, like soldiers at attention.
> 
> Call my crazy, but I feel cheated whenever anything mutes one of those little bits of personal satisfaction. Consider it cigar foreplay (and not in the Monica sense of the word ). The tease before is often as powerful as the glow after. Sometimes more!


Ha! I just went through the abovementioned steps about an hour ago, as I just received my first box! (PSD #4) Your detailed description nailed it! (Same with the LP experience!) S
So I slowly opened the lid, was awed at the sticks....when suddenly the intoxicating aroma enveloped my brain and senses and soul.....my whole life was leading up to that moment!! hahaha


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