# ’99 – ’01 Cigars



## SmokinApe (Jun 20, 2007)

*'99 - '01 Cigars*

I wanted to make a comment around the abundance of '99 - '01 cigars hitting the market from some of the bigger discount retailers and the quality or should I say the alleged quality of these sticks. Before I get started I wanted to throw some assumptions out there to make sure my thought process is clear.

-	'99 - '01 were arguably the worst years for production as a result of a rapid increase in demand.

-	These production issues were around; poor blending, poor construction and rushing "less than matured" leaf to market.

-	As a rule FOGs and people who are very serious about what they smoke have an affinity for aged stock.

-	Cigars from '99-'01 were avoided by the aforementioned FOGs and connoisseurs. Even today many experienced smokers avoid these cigars.

-	Vendors had trouble moving these cigars as a result of the quality; many have been kept in what could be described and "questionable" storage.

-	As a result of the demand around quality aged stock, there is less available; you can't run out and create aged stock.

-	Many of the "discount" vendors are now pushing this "vintage" stock at rates lower then '06 - '08 stock even though many FOGs and connoisseurs prefer aged stock

-	More supply then demand = lower prices

I have seen many posts from folks swearing to the incredible '99 - '01 smokes they are getting from the discount vendors. How can this be? I am sure there are some good smokes out there but overwhelming response is that everyone is getting great cigars&#8230;


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## icehog3 (Feb 20, 2005)

*Re: '99 - '01 Cigars*

I have got some great '99s - '01s from vendors the last year....maybe time as improved some of them, but among the good cigars have been:

'00 Hoyo du Prince
'99 RyJ Cazadores
'99 Partagas du Conn #1
'01 Cohiba Lanceros

I could continue, but you get the drift.


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## K Baz (Mar 2, 2007)

*Re: '99 - '01 Cigars*

Maybe and I am just guessing but I believe alot of the issue regarding quality from this time as I read was due to the use of "young" leafs.

Since there was such a boom stocks we not left to ferment as long as they once were.

I think this issue has been solved with the 00-01 crops having sat in stock for 8 years plus or minus.

There are still the issues of inexperienced rollers but we see this even today with plugged cigars and the like.

I am torn about the improper storage of stock I think every good buisness man would store stock properly if they wanted to maintain there investment. I have not toured an of the vendors to confirm but even I store my Gurkhas well and I have no plan to smoke or sell them but it is just as eay to store them in a humi as it is to store them out of the humi.

I have no answers just some ideas perhaps I am bias as I am eyeing up some Hoyo du Prince and I think they will be the bees knees. Plus I have a cab of Parti PC that just arrived and the smell alone on these was worth the price. :tu


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## uptown_cigar (Nov 27, 2007)

*Re: '99 - '01 Cigars*



SmokinApe said:


> I wanted to make a comment around the abundance of '99 - '01 cigars hitting the market from some of the bigger discount retailers and the quality or should I say the alleged quality of these sticks. Before I get started I wanted to throw some assumptions out there to make sure my thought process is clear.
> 
> - '99 - '01 were arguably the worst years for production as a result of a rapid increase in demand.
> 
> ...


In my experience, '99-'01 were questionable, but some were spot on. It's basically a "hit or miss" thing when it comes to these years. You will be able to find some that are great, and also some that have lousy construction and/or quality control on them. You might get lucky in these years, however.


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## icehog3 (Feb 20, 2005)

*Re: '99 - '01 Cigars*



uptown_cigar said:


> In my experience, '99-'01 were questionable, but some were spot on. It's basically a "hit or miss" thing when it comes to these years. You will be able to find some that are great, and also some that have lousy construction and/or quality control on them. You might get lucky in these years, however.


Pretty much the same as every year, by that measure.


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## Smoked (Apr 12, 2007)

*Re: '99 - '01 Cigars*

I have been loving the 99-00 stock that is out there right now. I have had a few issues with construction but you get that with any cigar. Like Icehog said, the Du Princes are great! I only have a few left from a CAB with another on the way.  :ss


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## lenguamor (Nov 23, 2006)

*Re: '99 - '01 Cigars*

Just my personal hypothesis, but I think the "boom" theory is flawed when applied to Cuban cigars.

The NC brands certainly were affected by the boom and its blissful demise, but we have to reason that for most of the 20th century Cuba not only supplied 100% of the tobacco for its own Marcas, but also supplied Cuban tobacco to literally HUNDREDS of bonded warehouses in the US that used it in American brands from powerhouses (Red Dot, Hauptman's) to boutiques (private label, promotional), as well as for mass production in brands such as White Owl, Dutch Masters, etc.

Cuba has the capacity to supply a huge percentage of the world's tobacco in proportion to its size...I rather doubt that the boom, which occurred mostly in a country which had almost no access pre-internet to Cuban cigars, affected the quality of Cuban cigars as much as perception might dictate.


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## Addiction (May 8, 2007)

*Re: '99 - '01 Cigars*

I have quite a few 99-01 boxes (at least 30) and they afre smoking great to me. Well technically I'm not smoking out of al 30 but you get the point lol.


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## newcigarz (Feb 11, 2007)

*Re: '99 - '01 Cigars*



Smoked said:


> I have been loving the 99-00 stock that is out there right now.


:tpd: '01 SP Coronas, '00 Black Princes, among others are spot on.

Hey is this that reverse psychology thing, You know to keep more for yourself???:r


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## kjd2121 (Jul 13, 2006)

*Re: '99 - '01 Cigars*

The Partagas 898's are awesome - '99'


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## jkorp (Sep 27, 2007)

*Re: '99 - '01 Cigars*

Ditto on the Du Princes they are incredible, but also:

'01 QDO Coronas (love these)
'00 Vegueros Marevas and Seoane
'01 VRC
'00 PdeP#1
'01 Dip #1 and #3

These are some of my purchases and they have all been incredible.

Maybe time heals most wounds.... I don't know. But the way these are smoking and the price they can be had for, it's a no brainer.


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## icehog3 (Feb 20, 2005)

*Re: '99 - '01 Cigars*

Almost forgot the '01 Sancho Panza Coronas...num.


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## Darrell (Aug 12, 2007)

*Re: '99 - '01 Cigars*

I haven't had a bad stick from 99-01. :ss


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## zmancbr (Nov 20, 2007)

*Re: '99 - '01 Cigars*

The '99 Hoyo du maire are perfect. Wonderful flavor and great draw... everything you would expect from a nice cigar. :tu


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## Don Fernando (Jan 1, 2000)

*Re: '99 - '01 Cigars*

I got some 00 Punch black prince (already smoked tru a complete box, now starting the second box) and I love 'em.


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## SmokinApe (Jun 20, 2007)

*Re: '99 - '01 Cigars*

Thanks for all the responses... Given everyone's positive experiences, why the delta in price from their '07-'08 counterparts?

It doesn't make sense that a fixed quantity product that is better then more readily available product would cost less...


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## chenvt (Apr 12, 2008)

*Re: '99 - '01 Cigars*



SmokinApe said:


> Thanks for all the responses... Given everyone's positive experiences, why the delta in price from their '07-'08 counterparts?
> 
> It doesn't make sense that a fixed quantity product that is better then more readily available product would cost less...


Maybe the reason there is so much still available is because of the general perception of 00-01 stock? Which of course works in our favor, but worldwide demand of these must not be high since the initial releases were deemed so poor that most people avoid it. My biggest fear is that word spreads that some of these have come along nicely and prevents me from trying out and probably buying some of the marcas I want to try.

I never tried the 00-01 stock when it was released, but like many of the others here, I'm enjoying select 00-01 marcas..


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## mikeyj23 (Feb 25, 2007)

*Re: '99 - '01 Cigars*



icehog3 said:


> Almost forgot the '01 Sancho Panza Coronas...num.


Is that num or om num num num?

I've got some great 00 du Princes (like others have mentioned) that are fantastic, as well as some 99 RS12s that are equally fantastic. Neither have had any burn/draw problems, construction is consistent and I've enjoyed every one.

I think the flaw comes when you fail to realize that Cuba has quality control issues _every_ year, and that consistency is not why we smoke Cuban cigars. I don't think anyone will deny that 99-00 were sub-par years, but that doesn't mean that nothing good came out those years. I think you just have an 75% chance of having a good box instead of the usual 90%. Caveat emptor.


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## icehog3 (Feb 20, 2005)

*Re: '99 - '01 Cigars*



chenvt said:


> Maybe the reason there is so much still available is because of the general perception of 00-01 stock?


I would bet that definitely has something to do with it. :tu


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## DBall (Jun 4, 2007)

*Re: '99 - '01 Cigars*

I got some 00 RS 12 that are close to (if not, are) my favorite cigars... It pains me to know they are not for sale any more and that I have less than a box left. Aside from that, I haven't smoked much 99-01 stuff... had a du Prince that was good and another I pitched midway.


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## GrtndpwrflOZ (May 17, 2007)

*Re: '99 - '01 Cigars*

MAY I GET ONE OF EACH PLEASE.
THANK YOU

B:ss



icehog3 said:


> I have got some great '99s - '01s from vendors the last year....maybe time as improved some of them, but among the good cigars have been:
> 
> '00 Hoyo du Prince
> '99 RyJ Cazadores
> ...


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## One Lonely Smoker (Jan 21, 2005)

*Re: '99 - '01 Cigars*

I thiink almost anything old that you like would be worth a try if there was a discount.


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## Beagle Boy (Jul 26, 2006)

*Re: '99 - '01 Cigars*

maybe it's just been my bad luck, but my experiences with the construction and the flavors of the 99-01 product, even from trusted vendors - they will have to be at a big discount before I will try them again :2

But hey, we are lucky to have all the options to even make this a valid question! :tu


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## SaltyMcGee (Dec 15, 2006)

*Re: '99 - '01 Cigars*

I have a cab of '00 SLR Serie A's that are fantastic!


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## vicvitola (Mar 18, 2008)

*Re: '99 - '01 Cigars*



Beagle Boy said:


> maybe it's just been my bad luck, but my experiences with the construction and the flavors of the 99-01 product, even from trusted vendors - they will have to be at a big discount before I will try them again :2


:tpd:

A fews Gems but for the most part average at best IME. Two years ago most 96-98 blew these cigars away and still do IMO. I'd rather smoke 03's or fresh (06-07)


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## icehog3 (Feb 20, 2005)

*Re: '99 - '01 Cigars*



GrtndpwrflOZ said:


> MAY I GET ONE OF EACH PLEASE.
> THANK YOU
> 
> B:ss


No soup for you...come back, one year!


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## One Lonely Smoker (Jan 21, 2005)

*Re: '99 - '01 Cigars*



SmokinApe said:


> Thanks for all the responses... Given everyone's positive experiences, why the delta in price from their '07-'08 counterparts?
> It doesn't make sense that a fixed quantity product that is better then more readily available product would cost less...


You know what kills me about this thread?? While some of you guys were arguing about whether or not it was worth it to jump on these discounts, and why they were happening, and how the product could be worth whatever price, the people with an open mind were cleaning out the closets and enjoying what have been, for me, the best cigars I have smoked since the mid 80s. Not in overall taste depth or quality, but in satisfaction, smoothness and maturity. Thanks to one brutha, thanked in private, for clueing me in to the fact that the sale was on in the first place. The answer to all your questions was finally THIS: The cigars were universally reviled for their poor construction and materials.....The internet made this "truth" spread even faster and more completely.........Vendors couldn't sell them as new.........vendors had trouble moving them as aged..........there was nothing categorically or empirically wrong with the cigars that time didn't cure.......there are some bad cigars in every box.

End result, alot of people took a chance and scored big time. As I read through various threads on the subject, it is clear that just as many people sat on the fence until it was too late. But the good news is, this trend is evolving constantly and new cases are being opened every day and the stuff is still moving, so pull your head out and get up on that thang. Like the LeHoyo series??? Better get moving beyotches.


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## Bax (Sep 12, 2007)

*Re: '99 - '01 Cigars*



One Lonely Smoker said:


> You know what kills me about this thread?? While some of you guys were arguing about whether or not it was worth it to jump on these discounts, and why they were happening, and how the product could be worth whatever price, the people with an open mind were cleaning out the closets and enjoying what have been, for me, the best cigars I have smoked since the mid 80s. Not in overall taste depth or quality, but in satisfaction, smoothness and maturity. Thanks to one brutha, thanked in private, for clueing me in to the fact that the sale was on in the first place. The answer to all your questions was finally THIS: The cigars were universally reviled for their poor construction and materials.....The internet made this "truth" spread even faster and more completely.........Vendors couldn't sell them as new.........vendors had trouble moving them as aged..........there was nothing categorically or empirically wrong with the cigars that time didn't cure.......there are some bad cigars in every box.
> 
> End result, alot of people took a chance and scored big time. As I read through various threads on the subject, it is clear that just as many people sat on the fence until it was too late. But the good news is, this trend is evolving constantly and new cases are being opened every day and the stuff is still moving, so pull your head out and get up on that thang. Like the LeHoyo series??? Better get moving beyotches.


 Yep, that pretty much sums it up:tu


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## One Lonely Smoker (Jan 21, 2005)

*Re: '99 - '01 Cigars*



SmokinApe said:


> I wanted to make a comment around the abundance of '99 - '01 cigars hitting the market from some of the bigger discount retailers and the quality or should I say the alleged quality of these sticks. How can this be? I am sure there are some good smokes out there but overwhelming response is that everyone is getting great cigars&#8230;


Right on both accounts. There ARE some good cigars out there, and people are chiming in every day about how they are not just good, but great. NOW, all we have to do is start a viral web campaign maligning the quality and craftsmanship of the _*2006 vintage *_and in 2013, we can take another shot at the brass ring.


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## borndead1 (Oct 21, 2006)

*Re: '99 - '01 Cigars*

I have gotten a not so great cab of 2000 Hoyo du Prince, a box of 2001 SLR Regios that still taste like ammonia for some reason, and a box of moldy 1998 Fonsecas. I guess yooz guys are getting all the good stuff! :hn



One Lonely Smoker said:


> You know what kills me about this thread?? While some of you guys were arguing about whether or not it was worth it to jump on these discounts, and why they were happening, and how the product could be worth whatever price, the people with an open mind were cleaning out the closets and enjoying what have been, for me, the best cigars I have smoked since the mid 80s. Not in overall taste depth or quality, but in satisfaction, smoothness and maturity. Thanks to one brutha, thanked in private, for clueing me in to the fact that the sale was on in the first place. The answer to all your questions was finally THIS: The cigars were universally reviled for their poor construction and materials.....The internet made this "truth" spread even faster and more completely.........Vendors couldn't sell them as new.........vendors had trouble moving them as aged..........there was nothing categorically or empirically wrong with the cigars that time didn't cure.......there are some bad cigars in every box.
> 
> End result, alot of people took a chance and scored big time. As I read through various threads on the subject, it is clear that just as many people sat on the fence until it was too late. But the good news is, this trend is evolving constantly and new cases are being opened every day and the stuff is still moving, so pull your head out and get up on that thang. Like the LeHoyo series??? Better get moving beyotches.


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## jkorp (Sep 27, 2007)

*Re: '99 - '01 Cigars*



borndead1 said:


> I have gotten a not so great cab of 2000 Hoyo du Prince, a box of 2001 SLR Regios that still taste like ammonia for some reason, and a box of moldy 1998 Fonsecas. I guess yooz guys are getting all the good stuff! :hn


How long have you had your princes? My experience is they need a few months to make themselves at home.


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## poker (Dec 11, 1997)

*Re: '99 - '01 Cigars*

Lets not forget the infamous fireproof H2000 wrappers that were just horrible imo.


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## One Lonely Smoker (Jan 21, 2005)

*Re: '99 - '01 Cigars*



borndead1 said:


> I have gotten a not so great cab of 2000 Hoyo du Prince, a box of 2001 SLR Regios that still taste like ammonia for some reason, and a box of moldy 1998 Fonsecas. I guess yooz guys are getting all the good stuff! :hn


OK, this is where my argument falls to the ground, becasue there WERE rumours, well, anecdotal evidence of some underfermented tobacco going into bunches, too. I think I remember CA saying, young tobacco is one thing, you can just AGE the cigars into submission, but you can't _*finish*_ fermentation, THAT has to be done properly and completely first. That might be what you got on those Regios. And i am sorry to hear that ANY bad boxes went out. Because I am far from finished sitting here waiting for the rest of the chickens to come home.
------------------------
And I didn't GET any of THOSE!, lol.


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## One Lonely Smoker (Jan 21, 2005)

*Re: '99 - '01 Cigars*

DANGIT!!! The Punch Margaritas just disappeared. Shite. i was gonna combo up with the Joyitas.

Ah who am I kidding, I'm tapped out.


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## bobarian (Oct 1, 2007)

*Re: '99 - '01 Cigars*



jkorp said:


> How long have you had your princes? My experience is they need a few months to make themselves at home.


My 99's and 01's were awesome from the get go! Got some 00's coming so after a test smoke I will let them rest for a few months on your recommendation. The current batch of 99-01's has been overall a great opportunity for us newbies to expand our collections and get some decently aged smokes. I doubt very much that in 5 years we will find 05-07 stuff at anywhere near todays prices. Yes, you may get a bad stick or two. But when you are paying cheap NC prices for aged CC's its kind of a no-brainer. :2


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## Eternal Rider (Feb 27, 2006)

*Re: '99 - '01 Cigars*



One Lonely Smoker said:


> DANGIT!!! The Punch Margaritas just disappeared. Shite. i was gonna combo up with the Joyitas.
> 
> Ah who am I kidding, I'm tapped out.


I got them before they tapped out. They are on their way along with some La Flor Del Cano Selectos. I am going to let them rest awhile and then try them.I am sure they are goimng to be good everything else has been so far.


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## ForestPuma (Jun 28, 2007)

*Re: '99 - '01 Cigars*

I have had some very very good 99-01 stock and some not so good. I think that happens with all years.

01 Cohiba Lanceros
99-00 HDM Du Princes
01 Punch Black Princes
01 Partagas 898's
01 QDO Coronas
00 Vegueros Marevas

These have all been great for me.


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## romwarrior (Jan 16, 2008)

*Re: '99 - '01 Cigars*

Any thoughts from anyone on the Party Churchills Deluxe that are up??


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## One Lonely Smoker (Jan 21, 2005)

*Re: '99 - '01 Cigars*

You know, it seems just like EVERY other cigar out there. You read cigarreviews dot org and they go on and on about how awesome they are, then you read top25cigars reviews and they all have no flavor. So who knows. I think that in this particular case I am going to go with the past their prime crowd. I find Churchills to be the cigars that tend to give out early, the blends are usually on the milder side to start and for some reason they seem to go first. Give me an old Cervantes or Perla anyday. Your mileage may definitely vary, and I am having good luck with the Partagas de Partagas, so who knows. But if I was picking off that list, I'd go SLR Churchills.


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## borndead1 (Oct 21, 2006)

*Re: '99 - '01 Cigars*



jkorp said:


> How long have you had your princes? My experience is they need a few months to make themselves at home.


They taste ok but they are rolled really loose. Feels like nothing in your hand and burn in about 20 minutes. About 1 in 5 are absolutely perfect and make me want to buy 10 more cabs. Maybe I did just get a bum box. Aww man....the wheels are turning. :hn


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## scroggers (Nov 12, 2007)

*Re: '99 - '01 Cigars*

I was wondering if anyone had any experience with RG corona extras from this time period?? I've read that the newer ones a pretty good for the price.


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## bobarian (Oct 1, 2007)

*Re: '99 - '01 Cigars*



romwarrior said:


> Any thoughts from anyone on the Party Churchills Deluxe that are up??


These are quite mild and smooth. I really like them for a long lazy afternoon smoke. Dont remember the exact box code but they are from this period. :tu


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## jkorp (Sep 27, 2007)

*Re: '99 - '01 Cigars*



borndead1 said:


> They taste ok but they are rolled really loose. Feels like nothing in your hand and burn in about 20 minutes. About 1 in 5 are absolutely perfect and make me want to buy 10 more cabs. Maybe I did just get a bum box. Aww man....the wheels are turning. :hn


I was just wondering, because when I first got my cab, I though they tasted great but the draw was horrible. I smoked 2 or 3 then let them sit for a month. Somewhere in the 1-3 months of being in the Vino magic occured because everyone has been perfection.


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## jkorp (Sep 27, 2007)

*Re: '99 - '01 Cigars*



bobarian said:


> These are quite mild and smooth. I really like them for a long lazy afternoon smoke. Dont remember the exact box code but they are from this period. :tu


I agree with Bob in that they are pretty mild, but a little too mild for my taste. I personally wouldn't buy any more of these, there are better churchills to be had.


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## krisko (Jul 28, 2007)

*Re: '99 - '01 Cigars*

I took advantage of the first round of the overstock sale a month ago or so and have already dipped my foot into the pool. The Bolivar CEs I got are just as good as other CEs I've enjoyed...I saw no quality drop off in any category. I've also tried a couple of Robainas Clasicos...one was quite good and the other was good with a lot of quality issues. I had to keep my lighter and drawpoker handy. Regardless, the value is a no brainer and I am quite happy with the purchase.

Now I have to hear that the Hoyo du Princes from this batch are good too. And I'm under a self-imposed spending freeze....I might have to break it now.


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## jkorp (Sep 27, 2007)

*Re: '99 - '01 Cigars*



krisko said:


> Now I have to hear that the Hoyo du Princes from this batch are good too. And I'm under a self-imposed spending freeze....I might have to break it now.


NO they suck, don't waste your money. Seriously....


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## BengalMan (Aug 13, 2007)

*Re: '99 - '01 Cigars*

I have a box of 98 Du Prince's and a cab of 01 Du Prince's, both of which are amazing.


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## Bax (Sep 12, 2007)

*Re: '99 - '01 Cigars*

Nice to hear that... since I um... you know... broke the cigar budget.... again. :ss


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## landhoney (May 17, 2008)

*Re: '99 - '01 Cigars*



scroggers said:


> I was wondering if anyone had any experience with RG corona extras from this time period?? I've read that the newer ones a pretty good for the price.


Someone should really answer this man's question. :tpd:


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## krisko (Jul 28, 2007)

*Re: '99 - '01 Cigars*



landhoney said:


> Someone should really answer this man's question. :tpd:


I was wondering the same thing about the RGs....they get a lukewarm reception at top25.

As for me, I think I'm going with the du Prince cabs and 10 sticks of the Coronas Punch.


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## One Lonely Smoker (Jan 21, 2005)

*Re: '99 - '01 Cigars*

I can tell you that based SOLELY on a decade of reading about everything I can read about every cigar in the universe, and yet NEVER having had the first ONE, this cigar has a reputation for being over-filled, a la the HDM Churchill. I have never had a HDM Churchill that was light and airy, nor could any of them draw worth a crap. SO when I read person after person saying that they draw poorly, I can relate. This did not stop _*me*_ from hitting that deal, I loves me some RG cigars. But for most people, this stick should NOT trump any other cigar on that list. You know what list I mean.


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## One Lonely Smoker (Jan 21, 2005)

*Re: '99 - '01 Cigars*



krisko said:


> As for me, I think I'm going with the du Prince cabs and 10 sticks of the Coronas Punch.


Just wanted to let you know that while youstill can, go for 20 sticks of Punch Coronas. 30 if you have the money.


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## romwarrior (Jan 16, 2008)

*Re: '99 - '01 Cigars*



One Lonely Smoker said:


> Just wanted to let you know that while youstill can, go for 20 sticks of Punch Coronas. 30 if you have the money.


:tpd:I had one last night and again it was great. I've had a few of these from my box now and they have all been great. Get as many as you can.


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