# How can you tell when they are ready?



## Addiction (May 8, 2007)

Is the only way a test smoke? I mean other than following general consensus on well know boxes?


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## Old Sailor (Jul 27, 2006)

*Re: How can you tell when they ate ready?*

Some you'll smell the amonia when openned.


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## Addiction (May 8, 2007)

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Old Sailor said:


> Some you'll smell the amonia when openned.


So in that case I simply wait till I don't smell the ammonia anymore and they are good?


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## icehog3 (Feb 20, 2005)

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Addiction said:


> So in that case I simply wait till I don't smell the ammonia anymore and they are good?


Not necessarily.

Ammonia smell = not ready

No ammonia smell = gotta try one and see.


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## Old Sailor (Jul 27, 2006)

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icehog3 said:


> Not necessarily.
> 
> Ammonia smell = not ready
> 
> No ammonia smell = gotta try one and see.


:tpd: about says it all.:tu


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## Sandman (Mar 26, 2006)

*Re: How can you tell when they ate ready?*

Generally speaking, smoking one is a great way to find out. Other than than, squeezing the cigar to test moisture content, and smelling are other ways.


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## 68TriShield (May 15, 2006)

*Re: How can you tell when they ate ready?*

Getting impatient Bryan?


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## hamncheese (Oct 5, 2006)

*Re: How can you tell when they ate ready?*

Gotta try one. The concept of "ready" is entirely unique to what you like in cigars. To me, they could be ready while they could be nowhere close to you. There is no hard fast rule.


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## Addiction (May 8, 2007)

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68TriShield said:


> Getting impatient Bryan?


Not really more curious. Everything I've put down I know needs a minimum of 4 years before its even worth a test, so i accept that. But my Cuban collection is growing at an alarming rate and in July I was planning to buy 5-6 fresh boxes and thats what got me thinking "if I buy fresh, how will I know when they are ready?"

So just wanted the information.


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## DBall (Jun 4, 2007)

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Addiction said:


> Everything I've put down I know needs a minimum of 4 years before its even worth a test...


Some stuff actually tastes good fresh, and it never hurts to have a baseline smoke right off the truck. I've found that not everything benefits from age... :tu


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## vicvitola (Mar 18, 2008)

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Addiction said:


> Not really more curious. Everything I've put down I know needs a minimum of 4 years before its even worth a test, so i accept that. But my Cuban collection is growing at an alarming rate and in July I was planning to buy 5-6 fresh boxes and thats what got me thinking "if I buy fresh, how will I know when they are ready?"
> 
> So just wanted the information.


Everyone has a different definition of "ready".


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## dvickery (Jan 1, 2000)

*Re: How can you tell when they ate ready?*

Addiction

for me it goes by year.

for myself i find pretty much anything from '99 or older is ready...i have found nothing youthful lately in any of these .i would not be afraid to open any box from '99 or older.

i dont have any open boxes of smokes from '00 (for no particular reason) at the moment so i really cant say.

still many youthful signs in all '01 and '02 boxes that i have open.but lots of good stuff too.

nothing wrong with trying tho.

hope this helps
derrek


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## wayner123 (Mar 29, 2007)

*Re: How can you tell when they ate ready?*



Addiction said:


> Not really more curious. Everything I've put down I know needs a minimum of 4 years before its even worth a test, so i accept that. But my Cuban collection is growing at an alarming rate and in July I was planning to buy 5-6 fresh boxes and thats what got me thinking "if I buy fresh, how will I know when they are ready?"
> 
> So just wanted the information.


How do you "know" they need a minimum of 4 years?

To me, "ready" is as soon as I receive them. If they are smoking good now why wait? IMO, they aren't going to be SO much more better in a few years. Smoke 'em while you got 'em.


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## adsantos13 (Oct 10, 2006)

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Addiction said:


> Not really more curious. Everything I've put down I know needs a minimum of 4 years before its even worth a test, so i accept that.


Personally, I wouldn't put down anything longterm without trying it every so often. Even if the cigars have not reached some sort of "peak", its still fun and fascinating to try the cigars every so often along the way in order to note how the box is changing.


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## The Professor (Jul 20, 2006)

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adsantos13 said:


> Personally, I wouldn't put down anything longterm without trying it every so often. Even if the cigars have not reached some sort of "peak", its still fun and fascinating to try the cigars every so often along the way in order to note how the box is changing.


Once again, we're in agreement, Andre. Especially for someone who is still learning a lot and not anywhere near FOG stage, I think it's important to experience those cigars at different points. You learn a lot about how a cigar matures, a year's harvest, etc., by smoking it every so often.

A nice, specific example of that is a vertical tasting -- say party shorts from 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, and 2007. With a group of friends, get all of them lighted up and start a puff-puff-pass. You'll notice pronounced and subtle differences between the same cigar from different years. Truly amazing ... and something you'd never experience in the same way if you let all your cigars sit for 4 years.


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## RPB67 (Mar 26, 2005)

*Re: How can you tell when they ate ready?*



Addiction said:


> Not really more curious. Everything I've put down I know needs a minimum of 4 years before its even worth a test, so i accept that. But my Cuban collection is growing at an alarming rate and in July I was planning to buy 5-6 fresh boxes and thats what got me thinking "if I buy fresh, how will I know when they are ready?"
> 
> So just wanted the information.


Only one way..........smoke them.

Some are good fresh and some are not.


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## jkim05 (Feb 26, 2007)

*Re: How can you tell when they ate ready?*

It's like Schrödinger's cat, they're both ready and not ready at the same time until you smoke one.


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## Navydoc (Jan 26, 2005)

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The Professor said:


> Once again, we're in agreement, Andre. Especially for someone who is still learning a lot and not anywhere near FOG stage, I think it's important to experience those cigars at different points. You learn a lot about how a cigar matures, a year's harvest, etc., by smoking it every so often.
> 
> A nice, specific example of that is a vertical tasting -- say party shorts from 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, and 2007. With a group of friends, get all of them lighted up and start a puff-puff-pass. You'll notice pronounced and subtle differences between the same cigar from different years. Truly amazing ... and something you'd never experience in the same way if you let all your cigars sit for 4 years.


Or PSD4's.......like the short idea though....ummmmmm


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## 68TriShield (May 15, 2006)

*Re: How can you tell when they ate ready?*



Addiction said:


> Not really more curious. Everything I've put down I know needs a minimum of 4 years before its even worth a test, so i accept that. But my Cuban collection is growing at an alarming rate and in July I was planning to buy 5-6 fresh boxes and thats what got me thinking "if I buy fresh, how will I know when they are ready?"
> 
> So just wanted the information.


I don't agree with this Bryan unless 4 years is a length of time you have set for yourself.
Most of my cigars are recent production and I don't have any boxes of cigars that are "sick" or that I have laid down for a long period of time.


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## Addiction (May 8, 2007)

*Re: How can you tell when they ate ready?*



wayner123 said:


> How do you "know" they need a minimum of 4 years?
> 
> To me, "ready" is as soon as I receive them. If they are smoking good now why wait? IMO, they aren't going to be SO much more better in a few years. Smoke 'em while you got 'em.


Conventional wisdom really. For example people I trust have told me to give Sir Winstons 8-10 years, so the ones I've bought are put away for another 4 years. Similarly I was told to give Edmundo Dantes a couple more years by sources I trust. Since I'm hoping to little by little totally replace all my stock, even my current aged stock, with stuff I've aged myself I dont mind that game plan.


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## Addiction (May 8, 2007)

*Re: How can you tell when they ate ready?*



The Professor said:


> Once again, we're in agreement, Andre. Especially for someone who is still learning a lot and not anywhere near FOG stage, I think it's important to experience those cigars at different points. You learn a lot about how a cigar matures, a year's harvest, etc., by smoking it every so often.
> 
> A nice, specific example of that is a vertical tasting -- say party shorts from 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, and 2007. With a group of friends, get all of them lighted up and start a puff-puff-pass. You'll notice pronounced and subtle differences between the same cigar from different years. Truly amazing ... and something you'd never experience in the same way if you let all your cigars sit for 4 years.


Not all of them per se, just three specific boxes. However with this many gorillas saying shift my strategy its as good as shifted (tho it pains me to start to break up such pretty looking full boxes sigh).


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## Addiction (May 8, 2007)

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Navydoc said:


> Or PSD4's.......like the short idea though....ummmmmm


Actually as part of my next series of orders I was picking two different cohibas and getting a 06, 07, and 08 box for just such an experiment. maybe I'll only pick one stick and try it from 04 to 08 or so, assuming I can find one such stick.


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## Addiction (May 8, 2007)

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68TriShield said:


> I don't agree with this Bryan unless 4 years is a length of time you have set for yourself.
> Most of my cigars are recent production and I don't have any boxes of cigars that are "sick" or that I have laid down for a long period of time.


Then it sounds like I need to go weapons free a bit and not worry about it so much. Thanks Dave, thats what I was trying to figure out.


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## pnoon (Jun 8, 2005)

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wayner123 said:


> How do you "know" they need a minimum of 4 years?
> 
> To me, "ready" is as soon as I receive them. If they are smoking good now why wait? IMO, they aren't going to be SO much more better in a few years. Smoke 'em while you got 'em.


I think many here would strongly disagree. That is not to say that fresh smokes aren't good. I just know that many will improve significantly with a few years of age.


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## icehog3 (Feb 20, 2005)

*Re: How can you tell when they ate ready?*



pnoon said:


> I think many here would strongly disagree. That is not to say that fresh smokes aren't good. I just know that many will improve significantly with a few years of age.


Just look at Cohiba Robustos....fresh, I don't care for them at all. Put 10 years and them, and "Wow", what a cigar.


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## pnoon (Jun 8, 2005)

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icehog3 said:


> Just look at Cohiba Robustos....fresh, I don't care for them at all. Put 10 years and them, and "Wow", what a cigar.


I think the difference between a fresh Sir Winston and one from, say, 2003 is remarkable. 5 Years from now, the difference will be even more pronounced.


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## The Professor (Jul 20, 2006)

*Re: How can you tell when they ate ready?*



Navydoc said:


> Or PSD4's.......like the short idea though....ummmmmm


It was just an example.  Do I sense a vertical Shorts PPP in the works??? :ss


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## Addiction (May 8, 2007)

*Re: How can you tell when they ate ready?*



pnoon said:


> I think the difference between a fresh Sir Winston and one from, say, 2003 is remarkable. 5 Years from now, the difference will be even more pronounced.


This is the scary part of the hobby to me. The catch 22 of wanting to experience that difference between good, remarkable and extraordinary. For example, it sounds like if i dont smoke any of the Edmundo Dantes until they are "ready" that I miss "the journey *IS* the experience" portion. However for some of these kinds of sticks (and the attached price points), I'm not sure I want the flight to Grand Bahama, I'd gladly simply take the time on the island if you catch my drift. And I wonder if I smoke 1 a year in the intervening years if at the end when they start to blow my mind will I regret I took the journey and didnt simply wait for the box to arrive?

I know guys, I know I'm over thinking it but I'm starting to get in a bit deep methinks. I want to smoke almost the best cigars. By almost the best, I mean that against my better judgement (or should I say common sense?) I got a couple of dunhills and davidoffs just so I can have the experience but I dont plan to play in that area with any regularity. But there is a lot of stuff at the next rung down that I can comfortably play with and I want to have those experiences.

Last year I came out strongly on the side of Cubans being overrated (a theory that I still support in some ways even as deep in as I am). Paul gifted me quite a few aged cubans to try and about every other week i'd try a couple. I'd write Paul and say "Thats not it" diligently. And little by little, more and more it became it. And even after all this time has passed I occasionally wonder what it was I missed because I wasn't ready, you know?

Just rambling now I suppose.


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## pnoon (Jun 8, 2005)

*Re: How can you tell when they ate ready?*



Addiction said:


> This is the scary part of the hobby to me. The catch 22 of wanting to experience that difference between good, remarkable and extraordinary. For example, it sounds like if i dont smoke any of the Edmundo Dantes until they are "ready" that I miss "the journey *IS* the experience" portion. However for some of these kinds of sticks (and the attached price points), I'm not sure I want the flight to Grand Bahama, I'd gladly simply take the time on the island if you catch my drift. And I wonder if I smoke 1 a year in the intervening years if at the end when they start to blow my mind will I regret I took the journey and didnt simply wait for the box to arrive?
> 
> I know guys, I know I'm over thinking it but I'm starting to get in a bit deep methinks. I want to smoke almost the best cigars. By almost the best, I mean that against my better judgement 9or should I say common sense?) I got a couple of dunhills and davidoffs just so I can have the experience but I dont plan to play in that area with any regularity. But there is a lot of stuff at the next rung down that I can comfortably play with and I want to have those experiences.
> 
> ...


I completely understand your dilemma. However, one can never know what tomorrow will bring. I subscribe to the "smoke less. smoke better" theory. And I am also a firm believer in enjoying the "journey". If I really want to enjoy, say, some 80s SWs, I will track them down and buy them. I have no intention of buying fresh cigars now and aging them for 20-30 years. I recognize it is the ideal way to do it but it just won't work for me.

Bottom line - never regret the journey. It is the journey that truly provides the appreciation for the destination.


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## wayner123 (Mar 29, 2007)

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pnoon said:


> I think many here would strongly disagree. That is not to say that fresh smokes aren't good. I just know that many will improve significantly with a few years of age.


Hey, that's fine. I know I am in the minority. It's just my opinion.

I think Addictions point is that he should wait, so as to get the mindblowing experience from the correct amount of waiting. My point is what if you wait all that time and they still don't blow your mind? Do you wait longer? Did you miss the correct time? Will they ever be mind blowing?? What if after all that time, you now prefer a spicy stick? Or a different vitola? In four years a lot can change in your life.

If you like them now, smoke them. If you can afford to wait and you want to, then do so. There are many factors as to why someone might prefer an aged smoke over a fresh one, but it all comes down to personal preference. However, I would never put cigars away to age without at least testing 1 or 2.


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## wayner123 (Mar 29, 2007)

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icehog3 said:


> Just look at Cohiba Robustos....fresh, I don't care for them at all. Put 10 years and them, and "Wow", what a cigar.


Are these smokes that you aged for 10 years? Or are you buying vintage? If you are buying vintage, the vintage crop may have been a better crop than the current one, so there is no real way to determine if aging is what made it better. That's my thought at least.

And if you personally aged them, your taste buds and preferences are sure to of changed in the past 10 years, so maybe you are more receptive to the Cigar now than when you first tried it.


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## pnoon (Jun 8, 2005)

*Re: How can you tell when they ate ready?*



wayner123 said:


> Hey, that's fine. I know I am in the minority. It's just my opinion.
> 
> I think Addictions point is that he should wait, so as to get the mindblowing experience from the correct amount of waiting. My point is what if you wait all that time and they still don't blow your mind? Do you wait longer? Did you miss the correct time? Will they ever be mind blowing?? What if after all that time, you now prefer a spicy stick? Or a different vitola? In four years a lot can change in your life.
> 
> If you like them now, smoke them. If you can afford to wait and you want to, then do so. There are many factors as to why someone might prefer an aged smoke over a fresh one, but it all comes down to personal preference. However, I would never put cigars away to age without at least testing 1 or 2.


I don't disagree with this post. What I did disagree with is your statement "they aren't going to be SO much more better in a few years." I think Cuban cigars can change/improve dramatically in a few years. Whether or not to buy and wait is another debate altogether.


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## wayner123 (Mar 29, 2007)

*Re: How can you tell when they ate ready?*



pnoon said:


> I don't disagree with this post. What I did disagree with is your statement "*IMO,* they aren't going to be SO much more better in a few years." I think Cuban cigars can change/improve dramatically in a few years. Whether or not to buy and wait is another debate altogether.


Ok, I was just making sure you saw it was just my opinion (IMO). I have taken a lot of heat for my position on aged vs fresh.


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## pnoon (Jun 8, 2005)

*Re: How can you tell when they ate ready?*



wayner123 said:


> Ok, I was just making sure you saw it was just my opinion (IMO). I have taken a lot of heat for my position on aged vs fresh.


No heat from me, Wayne. Just an opposing point of view. :tu


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## fizguy (Jul 26, 2006)

*Re: How can you tell when they ate ready?*



icehog3 said:


> Not necessarily.
> 
> Ammonia smell = not ready
> 
> No ammonia smell = gotta try one and see.


In other words, the absence of ammonia is a necessary but not a sufficient condition for excellent smokes! Just ask your old math professor.


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## avid toker (Dec 4, 2006)

*Re: How can you tell when they ate ready?*



Addiction said:


> This is the scary part of the hobby to me. The catch 22 of wanting to experience that difference between good, remarkable and extraordinary. For example, it sounds like if i dont smoke any of the Edmundo Dantes until they are "ready" that I miss "the journey *IS* the experience" portion.QUOTE]
> 
> A compelling reason to go deep with your stock levels...there's no tried/true way of telling they're ready until you smoke one. I generally move in increments of 6 or 12 months depending on how I deem them to be progressing. I can do this however because I have enough sticks/variety to last me a good number of years.
> 
> ...


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## skibumdc (Jun 27, 2007)

Here are my opinions, which somewhat educated, could be worth didly squat!

1) Economics: Time vs. Value of money: Buying and aging yourself is certainly cheaper than buying vintage boxes 4 years from now.
2) Knowledge: How will you know how much better they are in 5 years if you never tasted it along the way?
3) Addiction, you have enough storage to conceivably buy 2 boxes per year of a particular stick. You can have 2 sticks per year out of one box for 10 years, and if they are ready for PRIME Time in 10 years....well now you have another entire box to enjoy. Sure you don't have 4 boxes, but how would you know if they past their prime if you never tasted along the way.
4) Final Comment:

There is NO wrong turn down this journey for any of us. Whether we smoke 1 stick per month, per week, etc. or purchase by the truckload, the only thing, I repeat, THE ONLY THING THAT MATTERS is if you are enjoying the ride!

Coulda woulda shoulda. You can't live your life or cigar journey wondering what you have missed.

*Experience is the mother of all knowledge. *
Smoke some each year to LEARN when they are ready.


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## Addiction (May 8, 2007)

skibumdc said:


> .......
> 3) Addiction, you have enough storage to conceivably buy 2 boxes per year of a particular stick. You can have 2 sticks per year out of one box for 10 years, and if they are ready for PRIME Time in 10 years....well now you have another entire box to enjoy. Sure you don't have 4 boxes, but how would you know if they past their prime if you never tasted along the way.
> 4) .......


One small correction Mr Rudo. I "kinda' have enugh storage to do that. the Aristocrat is full and the long term ager is getting that way. theoreticallly I need to smoke to have room for ANYTHING.


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## skibumdc (Jun 27, 2007)

Addiction said:


> One small correction Mr Rudo. I "kinda' have enough storage to do that. the Aristocrat is full and the long term ager is getting that way. theoretically I need to smoke to have room for ANYTHING.


What's this theory stuff? You do smoke.
I can prove it!

Besides, I thought you were calling Bob to purchase a twin for your mxt?
I wrote him this morning and told him to start building it for you. LOL


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## Addiction (May 8, 2007)

skibumdc said:


> What's this theory stuff? You do smoke.
> I can prove it!
> 
> Besides, I thought you were calling Bob to purchase a twin for your mxt?
> I wrote him this morning and told him to start building it for you. LOL


Actually if I get........Scratch that, lets be completely honest here, *WHEN* I get my next Aristocrat it will be the next size up from my current one. Really just another 25 boxes of storage would suit me plenty I suspect. And I could completely live with no drawers since I got desktops to spare.

The only thing I'm uncertian of is if I'll keep my current one or move it out. It would be good for my collection if I kept it. It would be bad for my creidt cards, marriage and probably my health if I kept it hto lol.


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## Addiction (May 8, 2007)

skibumdc said:


> What's this theory stuff? You do smoke.
> I can prove it!
> 
> Besides, I thought you were calling Bob to purchase a twin for your mxt?
> I wrote him this morning and told him to start building it for you. LOL


And I mean smoke at a greatly accelerated rate, I need to smoke 5 boxes in the next three days just to accomodate whats already coming.


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## skibumdc (Jun 27, 2007)

Ahh I see your problem.
Well 3 options:
1) Time for a cooler to tide you over until you can purchase your twin mxt
2) Find a friend you trust with the capacity to hold you over
3) Sneak them onto a top shelf in Leesburg Pipe and hope no one notices!!
LOL


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## krisko (Jul 28, 2007)

It is quite impressive that you guys are buying CCs now to smoke in 5+ years. I have neither the budget nor the patience for that. I've been on a buying spree for cigars that I hope it ignore for about a year. After that, it's on!

I can recommend a few CCs that are ready to smoke when you get them. I think the Boli RC, Punch Punch, and PSD4 are great fresh. They could be a lot better with 5 years on them but I am likely to never find out.:ss


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## icehog3 (Feb 20, 2005)

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wayner123 said:


> Are these smokes that you aged for 10 years? Or are you buying vintage? If you are buying vintage, the vintage crop may have been a better crop than the current one, so there is no real way to determine if aging is what made it better. That's my thought at least.
> 
> And if you personally aged them, your taste buds and preferences are sure to of changed in the past 10 years, so maybe you are more receptive to the Cigar now than when you first tried it.


Gifted cigars with over 10 years on them Wayne. And you are correct, they could have been a better crop, but I have had them over a range of years from early to late 90s, and all were good, whereas all the ones I tried fresh ('05s, '06s, '07s) were grassy and flat. So there definitely could have been great harvests from '91-'97, and crappy harvests from '05-'07, but I believe it is more than that. I think opinions of some of the bigger Cohiba whores in the Jungle might lean towards my view too, but I don't discount yours as a possibility.


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## wayner123 (Mar 29, 2007)

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icehog3 said:


> Gifted cigars with over 10 years on them Wayne. And you are correct, they could have been a better crop, but I have had them over a range of years from early to late 90s, and all were good, whereas all the ones I tried fresh ('05s, '06s, '07s) were grassy and flat. So there definitely could have been great harvests from '91-'97, and crappy harvests from '05-'07, but I believe it is more than that. I think opinions of some of the bigger Cohiba whores in the Jungle might lean towards my view too, but I don't discount yours as a possibility.


That's why I say an aged vs fresh Blind taste test needs to happen. :tu


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## icehog3 (Feb 20, 2005)

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wayner123 said:


> That's why I say an aged vs fresh Blind taste test needs to happen. :tu


But again, could be a harvest thing Vs. an aging thing.

But if you can find a pre '94 CoRo and a fresh one, I would be more than happy to be your subject.


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## The Professor (Jul 20, 2006)

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wayner123 said:


> That's why I say an aged vs fresh Blind taste test needs to happen. :tu


I think it really depends on the age and freshness for something like this. For example, an extremely fresh cigar might not have any hints of ammonia, etc. Similarly, some of the 07 stock smokes as well as, say 03 or 04 stock, in my experience. But you put a 98 versus an 07 of the same cigar against one another, and an avid smoker is *most likely* going to be able to tell the difference.

Just to be clear, though ... I am not going to play Fredster to your Moki. :bn Just making a generalization with appropriate qualifiers. Lots of other factors (like storage, palate cleanliness, experience, etc.) play into this....


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## calistogey (Jun 14, 2005)

pnutbutrsangwich said:


> Gotta try one. The concept of "ready" is entirely unique to what you like in cigars. To me, they could be ready while they could be nowhere close to you. There is no hard fast rule.


:tu
Diminished straight tobacco taste, more enhanced flavors, good balance and no hints of sharpness or edge. Then again, it's not when the box is ready, but rather it is when I'm ready to smoke the whole box(usually after I've found a replacement).


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## Da Klugs (Jan 8, 2005)

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wayner123 said:


> That's why I say an aged vs fresh Blind taste test needs to happen. :tu


Been there, done that. It's interesting in narrow bands of years. Long periods of time are a different animal and typically not much of a surprise. But there are always exceptions.

Did it with 898 NV. Early 80's, and 98's. Verry different cigar in the two periods. One is good one is really nuanced and different.

You can pick cigars aka Moki like which are exceptions... PSD4's are a good example that actually taste better fresh to most. HU Mag 46 is a cigar for me that I prefer 05 over fresh and 98's.

It's all over the map so anyone with some specific experience with certain cigars who is trying to make a point one way or the other can do so based upon cigar selection.

But If you are interested in doing this ... then just do it. They are always fun to watch.


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## wayner123 (Mar 29, 2007)

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Da Klugs said:


> Been there, done that. It's interesting in narrow bands of years. Long periods of time are a different animal and typically not much of a surprise. But there are always exceptions.


Did you write it down or anything like that? I would love to see the test and results.



Da Klugs said:


> But If you are interested in doing this ... then just do it. They are always fun to watch.


Well, I would have to go out and buy a vintage collection. Based on my preference, I don't buy vintage smokes. And I don't know if I want to. I mean after the testing I am stuck with 20+ aged cigars that cost me a lot more and IMO, don't taste any better. So while I think it would be a great experiment, I do not have the funds nor the collection to make it happen.


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## icehog3 (Feb 20, 2005)

*Re: How can you tell when they ate ready?*



wayner123 said:


> .
> 
> I mean after the testing I am stuck with 20+ aged cigars


I like having that problem! 



wayner123 said:


> .... don't taste any better.


That seems like such a huge generalization, Wayne. While not every CC becomes better with age, my experience shows me that many do.


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## vicvitola (Mar 18, 2008)

Wet aged vs Dry Aged
Midwest vs Argentinian
Bone In vs out

I have my preferences but I really love steak.











bananas too


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## wayner123 (Mar 29, 2007)

*Re: How can you tell when they ate ready?*



icehog3 said:


> That seems like such a huge generalization, Wayne. While not every CC becomes better with age, my experience shows me that many do.


Well for me it has held true. I do not claim to have tried every vintage or even half, but I have tried various years, marca's, vitolas and none of them impressed me much at all. These are just my opinions though. And taste is very subjective.

Addiction showed my thoughts on the matter precisely.



Addiction said:


> Everything I've put down I know needs a minimum of 4 years before its even worth a test, so i accept that.


There are quite a number of people that subscribe to this theory. I think Addiction may have changed his mind for now on the matter, but there are still many others who do this very thing of aging sticks without ever testing them, or testing 1 or 2 and then not touching for a number of years. That may be great for them,(if you want/can afford to do that) but it also turns a number of people away from CC's as they think "there is no way I am going to wait on a cigar for 4 years before I can smoke it, I want to smoke a cigar now". My encouragement is to say there are many CC's that are good fresh, and to convey my preference that fresh smokes are just as good, *IMO.* I honestly do not think that an aged stick is SO much better to have spent so much time waiting on it, or so much more money. 

Again, I know I am in the minority, and these are just my opinions. I am not saying you guys are wrong for your opinions. If you prefer aged sticks, that's great. I am not saying my thoughts are superior to yours when it comes to fresh vs aged. I am just giving my point of view :ss


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## icehog3 (Feb 20, 2005)

I totally agree that there are many CCs that are good fresh, and I also will smoke 1-2 when I buy a new box, and if they are smoking that well, I may smoke through the box. But I can site scores of examples fo aging improving cigars immensely. First one comes to mind is some Mag46s I bought in '04. Tried one fresh, another a few months later, again in a year. They all sucked. Gave away 2/3rd of the box to people who said they wanted to try one. Then went back to it last summer....Magic! Superb cigar!

I have had similar experiences with many cigars...RyJ Belis, Bolivar CGs, Mag50s, Partagas Presidentes, Por Larranaga Lonsdales, just to name a few right off the top of my head.


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## wayner123 (Mar 29, 2007)

icehog3 said:


> I totally agree that there are many CCs that are good fresh, and I also will smoke 1-2 when I buy a new box, and if they are smoking that well, I may smoke through the box. But I can site scores of examples fo aging improving cigars immensely. First one comes to mind is some Mag46s I bought in '04. Tried one fresh, another a few months later, again in a year. They all sucked. Gave away 2/3rd of the box to people who said they wanted to try one. Then went back to it last summer....Magic! Superb cigar!
> 
> I have had similar experiences with many cigars...RyJ Belis, Bolivar CGs, Mag50s, Partagas Presidentes, Por Larranaga Lonsdales, just to name a few right off the top of my head.


Have you given thought to maybe your preferences have changed between now and then? And also how developed your palate may have become? I am not saying that is "why" it was better to you. I honestly would like to know your thoughts on the matter.


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## adsantos13 (Oct 10, 2006)

*Re: How can you tell when they ate ready?*



wayner123 said:


> I mean after the testing I am stuck with 20+ aged cigars that cost me a lot more and IMO, don't taste any better


Also, what would be the point of doing the test if already, before the test has even happened, you already know the result will end in you still preferring the fresh smokes over the aged ones? 

IMO, the debate in this thread can go on forever. Some person prefers fresh, some aged. Am I right in thinking that that should be the end of the debate right there?


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## wayner123 (Mar 29, 2007)

*Re: How can you tell when they ate ready?*



adsantos13 said:


> Also, what would be the point of doing the test if already, before the test has even happened, you already know the result will end in you still preferring the fresh smokes over the aged ones?


I would not be the subject of the test. In theory it would be a FOG who prefers aged sticks over fresh ones.



adsantos13 said:


> IMO, the debate in this thread can go on forever. Some person prefers fresh, some aged. Am I right in thinking that that should be the end of the debate right there?


I did not know there was a debate going on. In the realm of opinions, each person is entitled to their own and each one is correct. If I gave the impression of a debate, I am sorry.


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## adsantos13 (Oct 10, 2006)

*Re: How can you tell when they ate ready?*



wayner123 said:


> I would not be the subject of the test. In theory it would be a FOG who prefers aged sticks over fresh ones.


Ahh, misunderstood. Sorry about that. Just curious though, Wayner have you done a blind aged vs vintage test?



wayner123 said:


> I did not know there was a debate going on. In the realm of opinions, each person is entitled to their own and each one is correct. If I gave the impression of a debate, I am sorry.


Sorry, if my statement came off as rude. I didn't mean the word debate to construe anything other than discussion. The discussion in this thread is totally civil and not out of line at all. Of course everyone is entitled to their opinions, I never meant to imply otherwise.

FWIW, I like to smoke every and any cigar, fresh or aged.


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## raisin (Dec 3, 2005)

The cigar is alway's ready, the question really is, Are you ready? :tu


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## chibnkr (May 2, 2007)

*Re: How can you tell when they ate ready?*



icehog3 said:


> But if you can find a pre '94 CoRo and a fresh one, I would be more than happy to be your subject.


You know that can be arranged! Do you want the 1990, '91, '92, '93, or '94 CoRO, Tom?


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## wayner123 (Mar 29, 2007)

*Re: How can you tell when they ate ready?*



adsantos13 said:


> Ahh, misunderstood. Sorry about that. Just curious though, Wayner have you done a blind aged vs vintage test?


Sort of, Tw3nty and my trades have been that of sorts. But not a true test with thought out guidelines.



adsantos13 said:


> Sorry, if my statement came off as rude. I didn't mean the word debate to construe anything other than discussion. The discussion in this thread is totally civil and not out of line at all. Of course everyone is entitled to their opinions, I never meant to imply otherwise.
> 
> FWIW, I like to smoke every and any cigar, fresh or aged.


I didn't think it rude, I just wanted to clarify. These threads can turn south quickly sometimes.:tu


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## Bruce (Dec 31, 1999)

*Re: How can you tell when they ate ready?*



chibnkr said:


> You know that can be arranged! Do you want the 1990, '91, '92, '93, or '94 CoRO, Tom?


geez......friggin elitist snob!


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## chibnkr (May 2, 2007)

*Re: How can you tell when they ate ready?*



Bruce said:


> geez......friggin elitist snob!


You rang? 

Pot - meet kettle.


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## Da Klugs (Jan 8, 2005)

*Re: How can you tell when they ate ready?*



wayner123 said:


> I am just giving my point of view :ss[/COLOR]


I think we understand your point of view after the many posts where you express it. The beauty of our hobby is you can participate to whatever extent you want to and in whatever area that pleases you. However, you seem to want someone else to foot the bill to validate your opinion in some blind taste test here. That seems a bit disingenuous.

I had a 01 Cohiba Lancero on the way home last night from the shack that smoked like perfume. For me, last night 7 years seems a point on this cigar that is "most pleasing". Sublime right up till the point where I hit a deer at 60 mph.

Honestly, smoke whatever you like. We all tend to like what we smoke as most cigars are good to great in a one on one confrontation with our desire to smoke them.


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## vicvitola (Mar 18, 2008)

*Re: How can you tell when they ate ready?*



Da Klugs said:


> I had a 01 Cohiba Lancero on the way home last night from the shack that smoked like perfume. For me, last night 7 years seems a point on this cigar that is "most pleasing"


and I was going to hold off on ordering them.........


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## wayner123 (Mar 29, 2007)

*Re: How can you tell when they ate ready?*



Da Klugs said:


> However, you seem to want someone else to foot the bill to validate your opinion in some blind taste test here. That seems a bit disingenuous.


I really don't expect that the test will ever happen is why I kid about it. I am not being disingenuous, I do not want someone else to "foot the bill" to prove my opinion. I would love to be able to buy vintage singles and do the test. But then people would argue different crops, cigars chosen, how they were aged, who I picked for the test, etc etc. So no real conclusion would be made.

I hope you are alright from the deer accident. I know how dangerous they can be. And I fully agree smoke what you like.:ss:ss

EDIT: ** It's been pointed out to me that my tone may seem argumentative. I do not mean for it to come across like that at all. I apologize if it has, and I am sorry for any threadjacking on the OP. I'll stop talking now.


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## Da Klugs (Jan 8, 2005)

*Re: How can you tell when they ate ready?*



wayner123 said:


> I really don't expect that the test will ever happen is why I kid about it. I am not being disingenuous, I do not want someone else to "foot the bill" to prove my opinion. I would love to be able to buy vintage singles and do the test. But then people would argue different crops, cigars chosen, how they were aged, who I picked for the test, etc etc. So no real conclusion would be made.
> 
> I hope you are alright from the deer accident. I know how dangerous they can be. And I fully agree smoke what you like.:ss:ss
> 
> EDIT: ** It's been pointed out to me that my tone may seem argumentative. I do not mean for it to come across like that at all. I apologize if it has, and I am sorry for any threadjacking on the OP. I'll stop talking now.


It's all good. Opinions are cool. I just wish Bruce, Mike, Derrek, Mo, Kelly et al would post more informed ones for us to make judgements on. Till then we are stuck with opinions from folks like us who have less than perfect knowledge on the subject at hand.


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## icehog3 (Feb 20, 2005)

wayner123 said:


> Have you given thought to maybe your preferences have changed between now and then? And also how developed your palate may have become? I am not saying that is "why" it was better to you. I honestly would like to know your thoughts on the matter.


In the case of the Mag46, I would say definitely that it was the cigar that had changed and not my palate. Obviously the palate can change as time goes on and can contribute to changing tastes, but I have no doubt that many cigars change, for the better, with age. Not trying to change your opinion, Brother, and I guarantee after my experiences, you will not change mine. Agree to disagree? 



chibnkr said:


> You know that can be arranged! Do you want the 1990, '91, '92, '93, or '94 CoRO, Tom?


Crap Michael....I'll bring the steaks, and let you pick my cigar!  :r


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## Bruce (Dec 31, 1999)

*Re: How can you tell when they ate ready?*



Da Klugs said:


> It's all good. Opinions are cool. I just wish Bruce, Mike, Derrek, Mo, Kelly et al would post more informed ones for us to make judgements on. Till then we are stuck with opinions from folks like us who have less than perfect knowledge on the subject at hand.


Point taken......I will try to "help" out more. By no means do I consider myself an expert or even close. 
But considering I use to "do business" by fax because Internet commerce didn't exist, I have been around a bit.


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## Bruce (Dec 31, 1999)

icehog3 said:


> In the case of the Mag46, I would say definitely that it was the cigar that had changed and not my palate. Obviously the palate can change as time goes on and can contribute to changing tastes, but I have no doubt that many cigars change, for the better, with age. Not trying to change your opinion, Brother, and I guarantee after my experiences, you will not change mine. Agree to disagree?
> 
> Crap Michael....I'll bring the steaks, and let you pick my cigar!  :r


I'll bring the wine!


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## chibnkr (May 2, 2007)

Bruce said:


> I'll bring the wine!


Done deal! Especially if you can scrounge-up another bottle of that martinelli Jackass Zin! :tu


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## Bruce (Dec 31, 1999)

Don't worry, I still have a six-pack left.


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## Deem (Jan 1, 2000)

Extended age does not necessarily mean a cigar is ready to smoke.

I smoked a Punch RS 11 from Dec '00 this week and it definetly tasted _young_.
However I haven't smoked many of these from various years. It might just be in a bad stage or maybe a batch of lesser quality tobacco (that year is known for over production).
I'm burying them in the humi for an extended length of time to see if they take a turn for the better.
I have some Coros and others from the same year that are smoking great!

I didn't read the all the posts from this thread so if this post seems a bit out of context so be it.

Dave, I hope the deer incident was not a real bad one.
Really missed seeing you guys recently


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## Silound (May 22, 2007)

To me, it's all different per cigar per year.

I have two boxes of PSD4's that are a year apart (2 and 3), and several singles that are around 5 (I think...) years old. The older singles and youngest box smoke with a better flavor than the middle box. 

Oddly, I have two boxes of identical year and factory of HdM Epicure #1's that taste distinctly different (both purchased at an LCDH, so I trust they aren't fugazi). Both I feel need some more time (only a wee hair over two years old) but they're obviously going down two different paths with flavor, and I suspect one will be ready earlier than the other.

And yet I have boxes of Boli PC's and Cohiba Robustos that I prefer to smoke fresher for the sharper tastes. Go figure...


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## icehog3 (Feb 20, 2005)

Bruce said:


> I'll bring the wine!


It's a party!

Hi Deem, great to see you!

I was fortunate enough to participate in e vertical tasting of PSD4s recently, smoking ones from '00 through '07 simultaneously. Some credence to the freshness theory (in the short term) could be given as almost all the tasters agreed that the '07 was better than both the '06, '04 and '03. The best was an '02, blew everything else out of the water, but some agreed that the '07 seemed to have many of the characteristics to give it the potential to age into waht the '02s are today.


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## FattyCBR (Feb 22, 2007)

Very interesting, I smoked 2 the past 2 weekends and felt the same way, I thought I was going crazy. They were both pepper on the tongue with a little bit of green bell pepper on the aftertaste. Very one-dimensional and no flavor development.



Deem said:


> Extended age does not necessarily mean a cigar is ready to smoke.
> 
> I smoked a Punch RS 11 from Dec '00 this week and it definetly tasted _young_.


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