# Advice for Cuban cigar buyers



## moki (Jan 12, 2004)

Given the amazing number of posts in this forum from folks who are wondering whether the cigars they just bough are fakes or not, this is a public service announcement. 

If you've followed these threads, you're aware that 99% of the questioned cigars end up being fake. As such, here's my advice:

1) If you're not in a La Casa Del Habano, don't buy Cuban cigars while on vacation

2) If your "source" is in Miami, don't buy cigars from them

3) If your source has a friend/relative/associate/whatever that works in a cigar factory in Cuba, do not buy cigars from them

4) If you're buying cigars online, and you're not extremely sure of the vendor's credentials, do not buy cigars from them

5) Do not buy "Cuban" cigars from someone you don't know on eBay, yahoo, etc.

6) If you aren't very sure of what the real deal is, trade with an experienced board member who does before you plunk down your cash anywhere else

7) Finally, the old maxim of "If it sounds too good to be true, then it is" is applicable; look up the prices of various cigars, and if the price you're being asked to pay is significantly lower, this is a huge tip-off that the cigars are not genuine.

I don't want to see any of the purveyors of fake cigars be financially rewarded for peddling their junk, but more importantly, I don't want to see folks here getting ripped off.


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## ResIpsa (Mar 8, 2006)

wise advice and well said Moki...


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## Boston_Dude05 (Oct 10, 2006)

Great post. Is there also a thread on some basic signs of how to spot a fake? I've seen the bands post on CA and also the warranty seal one, but anyone general tips on how to spot fake ISOMs? Also seems having the book by MRN helps?


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## moki (Jan 12, 2004)

Boston_Dude05 said:


> Great post. Is there also a thread on some basic signs of how to spot a fake? I've seen the bands post on CA and also the warranty seal one, but anyone general tips on how to spot fake ISOMs? Also seems having the book by MRN helps?


The above 7 steps are pretty close to all you need to ensure that the cigars you're getting are the real deal. While "post-mortem" examinations can be illuminating, you can avoid the need to do them completely by exercising some prudence as I've outlined.

Certainly some cigars are easy to tell that they are fake, because of packaging that never existed, really poorly done bands, etc. However some fakes have extremely good packaging that is very hard to distinguish from the real deal. Cuba also routinely cranks out cigar bands/packaging that is aberrant enough to make you wonder if the cigars are real or not.

So I'd really suggest relying on trusted sources and common sense above all else.


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## mastershogun (Nov 3, 2006)

thanks for the info... where can i get a store locator for when i do travel?


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## RJT (Feb 12, 2005)

http://www.habanos.com/habanos.asp


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## mastershogun (Nov 3, 2006)

RJT said:


> http://www.habanos.com/habanos.asp


i;m not seeing the store locator :hn


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## dayplanner (Dec 11, 1997)

mastershogun said:


> i;m not seeing the store locator :hn


It's there. Look harder


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## mastershogun (Nov 3, 2006)

all i am seeing is one address for each region under the Exclusive Dealers section. is there a way i can find all the locations of the actual B&M in a given country or region?


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## RJT (Feb 12, 2005)

mastershogun said:


> i;m not seeing the store locator :hn


This is a partial list...which was linked from the LCDH website.

http://www.habanoscaribe.com/index_english.html


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## moki (Jan 12, 2004)

mastershogun said:


> thanks for the info... where can i get a store locator for when i do travel?


Right here: http://www.lacasadelhabano.cu/mundo_i.asp


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## mastershogun (Nov 3, 2006)

moki said:


> Right here: http://www.lacasadelhabano.cu/mundo_i.asp


thanks for the link


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## CrazyFool (Oct 2, 2005)

Moki, well done man, this is sticky material. One more i might add to your impressive list-

*If your vendor says "any box, any brand- same price" they are fakes.* Many pedalers will sell a churchill and petit corona box of the the same amount, for the same amount :hn


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## Timberlake2006 (Sep 8, 2006)

Good info, I do think a lot of the "are they real threads" are also gifts, such as the case of my recent thread, I would much rather post an "are they real" thread then play 20 question with the person that gifted them and maybe sound ungreatful or such, at least thats why I posted


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## justinphilly-cl (Sep 7, 2005)

Timberlake2006 said:


> Good info, I do think a lot of the "are they real threads" are also gifts, such as the case of my recent thread, I would much rather post an "are they real" thread then play 20 question with the person that gifted them and maybe sound ungreatful or such, at least thats why I posted


imho, if i am ever gifted a cigar from someone who really doesnt know if they are real, i deem them as fake.. sounds stupid i know, but i cant imagine whoever hey got it from knows where they got it.....


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## Timberlake2006 (Sep 8, 2006)

justinphilly said:


> imho, if i am ever gifted a cigar from someone who really doesnt know if they are real, i deem them as fake.. sounds stupid i know, but i cant imagine whoever hey got it from knows where they got it.....


Doesnt sound stupid, its prolly about 95% percent correct, but a BOTL's 2nd opinion never hurts, and im sure yall like the pictures :tg


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## moki (Jan 12, 2004)

Timberlake2006 said:


> Good info, I do think a lot of the "are they real threads" are also gifts, such as the case of my recent thread, I would much rather post an "are they real" thread then play 20 question with the person that gifted them and maybe sound ungreatful or such, at least thats why I posted


Yep, understood -- nothing I posted here was meant to be a "dig" against anyone, just hoping the information is useful.

Gifts are indeed a tough call; easiest thing to do is smile and accept them, then do your research as you did.

I also segregate any cigars that are not either: 1) Bought by myself or 2) Given to me by someone that I _know_ wouldn't have fake cigars in their mix.

Anyone else, they get tossed into a separate humidor where I will eventually determine the authenticity of said cigars. I do this both for myself, and also so that I don't pass along cigars I'm not 100% sure of to anyone else.


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## Timberlake2006 (Sep 8, 2006)

moki said:


> Yep, understood -- nothing I posted here was meant to be a "dig" against anyone, just hoping the information is useful.
> 
> Gifts are indeed a tough call; easiest thing to do is smile and accept them, then do your research as you did.
> 
> ...


Sounds like a good method, and I think once you have the cigars, the #1 way to know if they are real is to light em up.


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## moki (Jan 12, 2004)

Timberlake2006 said:


> Sounds like a good method, and I think once you have the cigars, the #1 way to know if they are real is to light em up.


Assuming you are very familiar with the taste profile of a given line of cigars, this is true. Some fakes do taste pretty good though, so just enjoying the cigar doesn't mean anything.


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## cfheater (Jan 14, 2006)

one thing that irks me more than anything is someone who finds a source but needs more sources. If you find a source why not stick with them? I know sometimes people want to get cigars (RE's, LE's)that their regular vendor doesn't have but it seems guys want ten sources or a source for best price on Cohiba, best price for Bolivar, best price for SLR's. :2


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## cls515 (Sep 28, 2005)

What does it matter? Why do all your shopping at Wal-Mart when there are other stores out there?


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## Old Sailor (Jul 27, 2006)

Moki, Thanks for the informative post, found it very informative. Kudos bro.


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## DriftyGypsy (May 24, 2006)

cfheater said:


> one thing that irks me more than anything is someone who finds a source but needs more sources. If you find a source why not stick with them? I know sometimes people want to get cigars (RE's, LE's)that their regular vendor doesn't have but it seems guys want ten sources or a source for best price on Cohiba, best price for Bolivar, best price for SLR's. :2


And what is the problem with this, do you buy all your NC's at ONE place or do you comparison shop.


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## [OT] Loki (May 24, 2006)

i was hoping to find a store in ireland but from the links here it doesn't seem like there are any


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## RJT (Feb 12, 2005)

mastershogun said:


> thanks for the link


Not to confuse you but you can buy legit cigars outside of a LCDH. A good example of this is in Grand Caymen. They have a offical LCDH store but they also have other shops that sell 100% legit cigars, (LETS CALL THEM OFFICAL APPOINTED STORES). They buy from the offical Habanos distributer for that area. The main thing is do your home work and follow the advice of Moki. RJT


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## moki (Jan 12, 2004)

RJT said:


> Not to confuse you but you can buy legit cigars outside of a LCDH. A good example of this is in Grand Caymen. They have a offical LCDH store but they also have other shops that sell 100% legit cigars, (LETS CALL THEM OFFICAL APPOINTED STORES). They buy from the offical Habanos distributer for that area. The main thing is do your home work and follow the advice of Moki. RJT


Sure... but there are plenty of legit shops in the Caribbean (and elsewhere in the world) that also sell fakes (knowingly or unknowingly). Certainly if you know what you're buying, or know the store in question, nothing wrong at all with buying from a non-LCDH shop.

Just trying to be extra-safe to prevent people from hurting themselves.


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## Rballkid (Sep 7, 2005)

Thanks for the great informative post. It helped me learn quite a bit so now I can know what to look for.


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## RJT (Feb 12, 2005)

moki said:


> Sure... but there are plenty of legit shops in the Caribbean (and elsewhere in the world) that also sell fakes (knowingly or unknowingly). Certainly if you know what you're buying, or know the store in question, nothing wrong at all with buying from a non-LCDH shop.
> 
> Just trying to be extra-safe to prevent people from hurting themselves.


:tpd: As usual Moki we see eye to eye  . I almost hated to throw that info into the mix but thought I should, but yes for 100% for sure buy from LCDH. RJT


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## Navydoc (Jan 26, 2005)

Timberlake2006 said:


> Good info, I do think a lot of the "are they real threads" are also gifts, such as the case of my recent thread, I would much rather post an "are they real" thread then play 20 question with the person that gifted them and maybe sound ungreatful or such, at least thats why I posted


I have a question in this case....when you were "gifted" these cigars did the individual tell you they may be fakes? If not, the individual knows he/she gifted you cigars and now you post a "are these real" thread...????? I believe that if a cigar is gifted to you then smoke it...if you liked it then great..if not then you are out nothing. The only time I see it appropriate to call someone out for possible fakes is if they are selling them to other members here. As usual just my :2


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## Dzrtrat (Oct 9, 2006)

Thanks for the post Moki, very good advice! :w


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## Boston_Dude05 (Oct 10, 2006)

One random question, what if the LCDH is operated by a parent company that owns other cigar stores that aren't officially LCDH stores? Would those be OK to buy from, using the transitive property? For example, if we know Store #1 is an LCDH, but Store #1 is owned by ParentCo and ParentCo actually has 2 other cigar shops, Store #2 and #3, for example, but these aren't officially LCDHs. Can you say that since Store #1 is LCDH and ParentCo owns Store #2 and #3 that these additional stores are OK? I guess the question in such an instance would by why aren't the other 2 stores (and they are in the same city) LCDHs?


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## MeNimbus (Dec 18, 2006)

Thank you Moki and Happy New Year. Please forward all referrals of reputable ISOMs to me thanks hehe. But seriously I am looking for creditable and reputable ISOM referrals. Enjoy your day :w


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## burninator (Jul 11, 2006)

MeNimbus said:


> Thank you Moki and Happy New Year. Please forward all referrals of reputable ISOMs to me thanks hehe. But seriously I am looking for creditable and reputable ISOM referrals. Enjoy your day :w


All things in their own time, my man.


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## j6ppc (Jun 5, 2006)

MeNimbus said:


> Thank you Moki and Happy New Year. Please forward all referrals of reputable ISOMs to me thanks hehe. But seriously I am looking for creditable and reputable ISOM referrals. Enjoy your day :w


You have read the whole don't ask don't tell thingie right?


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## Kayak_Rat (Nov 28, 2005)

j6ppc said:


> You have read the whole don't ask don't tell thingie right?


And risk learning something with no immediate gratification?


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## bpegler (Mar 30, 2006)

MeNimbus said:


> Thank you Moki and Happy New Year. Please forward all referrals of reputable ISOMs to me thanks hehe. But seriously I am looking for creditable and reputable ISOM referrals. Enjoy your day :w


Key Largo is a reputable Island South of Miami. Key West less so...


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## Danbreeze (Jun 27, 2006)

Navydoc said:


> I have a question in this case....when you were "gifted" these cigars did the individual tell you they may be fakes? If not, the individual knows he/she gifted you cigars and now you post a "are these real" thread...????? I believe that if a cigar is gifted to you then smoke it...if you liked it then great..if not then you are out nothing. The only time I see it appropriate to call someone out for possible fakes is if they are selling them to other members here. As usual just my :2


Thanks for the informative post Moki-they should make it a sticky.

I was given a fake Esplandido a few months ago with the notion that they knew it was fake and wanted a guinea pig to give a second opinion. I think a good reason to post the "are they fake" thread is to prevent yourself from sending them to some one else in a trade/bomb and damaging your rep. I hope they are not done to call someone else out.


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## Timberlake2006 (Sep 8, 2006)

Navydoc said:


> I have a question in this case....when you were "gifted" these cigars did the individual tell you they may be fakes? If not, the individual knows he/she gifted you cigars and now you post a "are these real" thread...????? I believe that if a cigar is gifted to you then smoke it...if you liked it then great..if not then you are out nothing. The only time I see it appropriate to call someone out for possible fakes is if they are selling them to other members here. As usual just my :2


I would NEVER call someone out on them gifting me fakes, the would be simply disrespectful, the only reason I would want to know if they are real or fakes is to know if I am smoking the real deal or not, is for my own personal reference, as said in a previous post, I just smiled and said thank you, and I am very greatful of the gesture, real or otherwise... but I don't see a problem confirming if they are real or not


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## bonggoy (Mar 9, 2006)

MeNimbus said:


> Thank you Moki and Happy New Year. Please forward all referrals of reputable ISOMs to me thanks hehe. But seriously I am looking for creditable and reputable ISOM referrals. Enjoy your day :w


Seriously?


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## Timberlake2006 (Sep 8, 2006)

bonggoy said:


> Seriously?


Seriously... but not really, unless your into that kind of thing...


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## pnoon (Jun 8, 2005)

Timberlake2006 said:


> Seriously... but not really, unless your into that kind of thing...


Read more. React less.
I think he was responding to someone else's post - not yours.


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## Danbreeze (Jun 27, 2006)

bonggoy said:


> Seriously?


Too funny!! :r


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## Timberlake2006 (Sep 8, 2006)

pnoon said:


> Read more. React less.
> I think he was responding to someone else's post - not yours.


I wasn't reacting, It just sounded a lot like a line from the movie Dodgeball, if you haven't seen it, it was just a joke


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## Twill413 (Jul 19, 2006)

Navydoc said:


> I have a question in this case....when you were "gifted" these cigars did the individual tell you they may be fakes? If not, the individual knows he/she gifted you cigars and now you post a "are these real" thread...????? I believe that if a cigar is gifted to you then smoke it...if you liked it then great..if not then you are out nothing. The only time I see it appropriate to call someone out for possible fakes is if they are selling them to other members here. As usual just my :2


I was confused by this at first as well. I think the reference was to off the board gifted smokes. Like "I brought you these back from vacation" type smokes. Other than that, I tend to have more faith in the habanos I have received from people on the board.


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## Timberlake2006 (Sep 8, 2006)

Twill413 said:


> I was confused by this at first as well. I think the reference was to off the board gifted smokes. Like "I brought you these back from vacation" type smokes. Other than that, I tend to have more faith in the habanos I have received from people on the board.


Exactly what I was referencing, I have much faith in all the BOTL's here


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## moki (Jan 12, 2004)

With the recent posts, looks like it's time to top the thread again


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## moki (Jan 12, 2004)

Okay, I've got a permanent link to this advice set up on Vitolas.net now. Makes it easy to give the URL out to people who ask for advice, and also it contains links to more information on fake Cuban cigars:

*Advice for Cuban cigar buyers*


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## kjd2121 (Jul 13, 2006)

Thanks Moki - :ss :ss


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## FraGil (Jan 25, 2007)

moki said:


> 1) If you're not in a La Casa Del Habano, don't buy Cuban cigars while on vacation.


Is it possible to have this first point edited to say something like "be very cautious while on vacation" or "ask for further clarification"?

There are dozens of reputable dealers in the UK but only one Casa, does that mean only that one store should get the business and that anyone who wants to buy cigars has to go to London? Some have been trading a few years but most have a long history behind them (we've been going for 133 years afterall which is longer than anyone in Scotland)

One thing to bear in mind when you are shopping in the UK is that the official importer Hunters & Frankau stamp every Cuban box with an EMS stamp - This means the cigars are English Market Selection. This stamp is colour coded to indicate the year it was brought into the UK and has been in place since 1993 (although between '93 and '97 they used the same stamp and only starting changing it annually in 98)

If you are looking at Havanas in the UK this is one of two things you should look out for. The other is that the box should be OPEN. This is down to the importer again who double check visual quality on every box and send back ones that dont look of a high quality (veiny, wide variation in colours within a box, mould,etc). So if you are in the UK and you are offered a box of Cubans that is sealed and has no stamp THEN you should not buy it and leave the store.

This does not apply to duty free outlets whose boxes can be sealed and have a different stamp on them

Hope that helps out anyone thinking of visiting the UK


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## pistol (Mar 23, 2006)

FraGil, nice post man, welcome to CS


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## FraGil (Jan 25, 2007)

pistol said:


> FraGil, nice post man, welcome to CS


Thanks,

Just thought it could be helpful to let people know what to look for in a non-LCDH store to help authenticate the products rather than just dismiss them out of hand.

I've detailed what to look for in the UK but I dont know what if any practices are employed in other countries to offer consumer piece of mind.

Hmmm, think I smell a new thread about to be born....


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## Sean9689 (Nov 9, 2005)

Good information FraGil...you are correct. #1 should be edited and isn't entirely correct.

Glasgow, Scotland huh? Man, I wish I could get over there!


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## FraGil (Jan 25, 2007)

Sean9689 said:


> Glasgow, Scotland huh? Man, I wish I could get over there!


Glad you agreed

Glasgow's not a bad place - home of the worlds best whisky pub called the Pot Still (damn, really need a whisky emoticon!).

I've actually changed my profile now as I live in Glasgow but work in Edinburgh. Thought it best incase people mistake my store as still being in Glasgow


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## luckybandit (Jul 9, 2006)

Walmart Is Carying Cubans Now Too! Just Wait Till After The Embargo Is Lifted I Can See It Now!


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