# Bad advice at a B&M



## PJD (Aug 15, 2009)

All I can say is thank heavens for online forums like this one. The days of trusting even specialty retail store clerks is gone, IMHO. Sherman, set the Wayback Machine to Last Week....

So, I needed to buy a Boveda Pak calibration bag. I headed off to JR in Whippany NJ, abut a 20 minute drive from where I live. After getting blank stares from three of the regular clerks one of the senior guys there comes up and asks what it is and why I need one. I explain and he recommends the traditional salt test, but what he then told me was somewhat shocking. He recommended I take a tablespoon of salt, toss it loose into a bag, add water (again, loose) and put in the meter for "an hour or two." He explained that "them bags are a ripoff and we don't sell 'em."

I was really curious now as to how much Great Advice could be had here, so I mentioned I was thinking of buying a new humidor and what he'd recommend for getting it seasoned correctly. His suggestion was to wet down everything with distilled water till it's soaking wet, let it dry, repeat twice more then put the cigars in. 

Keeping a straight-face I then asked this Fountain Of Knowledge how to best humidify the box, saying I sort-of like the concept of Heartfelt Beads. "Them's gahbage." he muttered. "Use this bottle of special humidifying liquid we sell for $19.95 in the sponge inside the humidor, keep it wet and that it." He then wandered off.

I have to wonder how many newbies have been sold stuff they didn't need, given really bad advice or were just plain turned off by folks like this. I find it a terrible shame when B&M specialty stores of any kind (not just cigar-related) aren't up on the Right Ways Of Doing Things, dispense wrong or misleading information and simply do a disservice to their customers. People bemoan the decline of "mom-and-pop" retailers, but in reality, other than satisfying the "I want it now" craving, what's the incentive for folks to continue patronizing such establishments? I'll still purchase the occasional NC cigar from them and will buy a drink at their cigar bar in the cold weather months, but that's about it.


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## fiddlegrin (Feb 8, 2009)

Yeeeeesh!

Thank goodness you knew better:thumb:


.


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## PJD (Aug 15, 2009)

fiddlegrin said:


> Yeeeeesh!
> Thank goodness you knew better:thumb:.


Agreed, but how many other n00bs have been now ruined their new humidors and potentially their cigar collections, listening to advice like this.

When I was a lot younger and into photography I knew I could trust advice in the two local camera shops as both places had first-rate photographers and darkroom guys working there. Those days are gone forever, for the most part at least. I'm very thankful for great Websites like this, and that the 'Net ultimately developed the critical mass necessary to be the true font of knowledge.


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## Colton1106 (Nov 13, 2009)

Wow.. That just makes me apprehensive to buy anything without checking the info from my Puff friends here first..


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## commonsenseman (Apr 18, 2008)

Wow what an Idjit! 

Luckily I have a B&M nearby that has smart people who work there!


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## Habanolover (Feb 22, 2006)

You should have asked him if you could speed up the process by submerging your humidor in a bathtub full of boiling distilled water for 24 hours. :r


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## kid smoker (Oct 13, 2009)

It's too bad that you had this experience. It is a good thing that you already have knowledge and can spot bad advice.

If you're going to find them anywhere, it is there. Time was when you could walk into a department store and every clerk knew their products backward and forward. Not so today.

Specialty retail is the last bastion of the informed employee. There are two kinds of specialty retailers. The mom and pop and the big box store. If you're looking for price, most of the time the big box retailer will blow the little guy right out of the water. If you're looking for selection it's the same thing. If you're looking for depth of inventory, you're in the right place. Service? Maybe. Knowledge? Good luck! It can happen. Just not too often.

JR is a big box store. Just like Best Buy, Dicks, and Guitar Center.

Local mom and pop retailers have to provide service. If they don't, they're out of business. Same goes with knowledge. Taste aside, usually know what they're talking about. (When it comes to taste, one man's Chateau Petrus is another man's Two Buck Chuck.) All of this knowledge and service comes at a price. They cannot purchase enough product to get the same discounts as the big guys. So you pay more. 

On the other hand, if they have a nice lounge, who cares? The don't have one at JR in North Carolina. Do they have one in Jersey?

Try not to be too critical of all specialty retailers. Most of them are working very hard to provide you with the service and advice you need.


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## mrreindeer (Sep 4, 2008)

So, based on advice from a guy in New Orleans from whom I bought my first cigars...I kept a moist paper towel over some RP Vintage 1992's (I bought 1/2 a box of glass tubos so he gave me the cigar box). Fortunately, these were in tubes so it didn't much matter. But I took my newfound knowledge and kept it going with additional cigars. And I wasn't using distilled water either. Needless to say, it didn't take long for the mold to move in.

So when I went to buy my very first humidor from a local B&M, they set me straight about the distilled water thing, seasoning and keeping the thing humidified and I was quite content using a puck and distilled water. But the stupid analog hygro obviously didn't admit to me the correct humidity. 

And I live in L.A. where it gets pretty warm and it was summer about this time and well, I started cultivating a cute little colony of beetles. All while the analog hygro stated a comfy 60% humidity.

I learned on here about going digital, beads, Vino's and now I'm a happy camper. 

But I did buy (and still have) a bottle of Xikar '70/70 fluid' (i think that's what it's called)...seemed like a good idea with the puck at the time...

Anybody want to buy it from me?


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## mrreindeer (Sep 4, 2008)

madurolover said:


> You should have asked him if you could speed up the process by submerging your humidor in a bathtub full of boiling distilled water for 24 hours. :r


Donnie, I'm not sure I understand, are you joking...because I do this regularly.

:rotfl:


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## PJD (Aug 15, 2009)

mrreindeer said:


> And I live in L.A. where it gets pretty warm and it was summer about this time and well, I started cultivating a cute little colony of beetles. All while the analog hygro stated a comfy 60% humidity.
> 
> I learned on here about going digital, beads, Vino's and now I'm a happy camper.


Actually, the beetles probably came for a visit because of the warmth (over 80 degrees F), not the humidity.

Even though I only started along the Path Of The Leaf in June of this year, I decided to just do it right from the start. Good quality humidor(s), properly seasoned, each with a 2oz container of 70% beads (and one with a smaller container of 65% as well) and three good-quality digital hygrometers and Boveda Paks to check their calibration regularly. Luckily I'm in a house with Central Air (which I only need for about 5 months of the year in northern NJ) so temperature regulation isn't much of an issue.


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## PJD (Aug 15, 2009)

mrreindeer said:


> Donnie, I'm not sure I understand, are you joking...because I do this regularly. :rotfl:


 Oh The Horror! You can't just use any old bathtub to boil your humi in distilled water. Everybody knows you _must _use a hermetically-sealed pressure vessel calibrated to precisely 11.375psi of pure nitrogen. Best to feed the heater with Monster Cable for power, too.


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## mrreindeer (Sep 4, 2008)

I agree with kid smoker....I didn't get the warm fuzzies at JR's in NYC either.


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## mrreindeer (Sep 4, 2008)

PJD said:


> Oh The Horror! You can't just use any old bathtub to boil your humi in distilled water. Everybody knows you _must _use a hermetically-sealed pressure vessel calibrated to precisely 11.375psi of pure nitrogen. Best to feed the heater with Monster Cable for power, too.


Uh oh....


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## PJD (Aug 15, 2009)

kid smoker said:


> On the other hand, if they have a nice lounge, who cares? The don't have one at JR in North Carolina. Do they have one in Jersey?


Yep. In fact, I will be on my way there in about an hour or so. Vitamin N deficiency doncha know. They have both a lounge and actual bar/restaurant, with a decent selection of beverages and a modest bar menu. You're welcome to smoke whatever you bring with you or buy in the store, but they frown on outside food and drink, which is understandable of course. I just eat before going since I'm not fond of their food offerings.

The only thing I wish they DID offer was WiFi connectivity. Even at a price (though free would be better ).

I find their service to be very friendly for the most part and they do _mean well_, but given what transpired I just can't trust their knowledge.

Now, let me compare that with a place in Manhattan I visited two weeks ago. NO cigars allowed that weren't purchased onsite, period although you _can_ bring in outside drinks if you want. The staff weren't friendly at all unless you were a regular. Welcome to Noo Yawk, eh?

What I seriously want is reasonable selection, fair prices (not deep-discounted - I can use the 'Net for that if I want), friendly and knowledgeable staff and an overall atmosphere that tells new smokers "We want to earn your business and your respect, and we'll do that by making your visit a friendly home away from home."


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## 5.0 (Sep 9, 2009)

There is a word that comes from getting bad/wrong/expensive information froma supposedly good source in my other hobby...an inground pool.....

you go in ask a few questuions on chemistry etc, and they sell you a bunch of stuff and give you a bunch of advice.....

You have been poolstored.........

P.S. If you are looking for puff.com level of information and almost as welcoming place for all things pool/spa

www.troublefreepool.com


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## kid smoker (Oct 13, 2009)

PJD said:


> Yep. In fact, I will be on my way there in about an hour or so. Vitamin N deficiency doncha know. They have both a lounge and actual bar/restaurant, with a decent selection of beverages and a modest bar menu. You're welcome to smoke whatever you bring with you or buy in the store, but they frown on outside food and drink, which is understandable of course. I just eat before going since I'm not fond of their food offerings.
> 
> The only thing I wish they DID offer was WiFi connectivity. Even at a price (though free would be better ).
> 
> ...


Sounds nice. WiFi would be sweet.

Your wants are reasonable. It would be great if everybody thought that way. Always remember to stop by the locals and buy a few sticks to keep that resource going.


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## PJD (Aug 15, 2009)

kid smoker said:


> Sounds nice. WiFi would be sweet.
> 
> Your wants are reasonable. It would be great if everybody thought that way. Always remember to stop by the locals and buy a few sticks to keep that resource going.


Just got back about an hour ago. Nice glass of Glenmorangie LaSanta and a FlorFina 8-5-8 Maduro. They had a good crowd in there again this afternoon. They have no plans for WiFi, though. I'm guessing if they did, they'd realize that they wouldn't have any turnover at their tables!

Here's a link to the place: JR Cigar - The World's Largest Cigar Store - Whippany, NJ


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## Cigary (Oct 19, 2007)

madurolover said:


> You should have asked him if you could speed up the process by submerging your humidor in a bathtub full of boiling distilled water for 24 hours. :r


ROFL,,,I almost wet myself.

On a serious note, this place is a fountain of knowledge that will give any noob enough knowledge to go out like you did and seperate fact from fiction. Glad you already knew beforehand what you had found out so you didn't get taken by these bozos.


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## PJD (Aug 15, 2009)

Incidentally, I should have added this in my last post. I wanted to buy a box of my favourites while I was there (Excalibur 1066 Dark Knights). On JR's Website they're about $75. They didn't have any boxes in stock, but to buy 25 sticks from their retail shop would have topped the scales at $125 plus NJ state sales tax. Gaah. Needless to say, I placed my order when I got home!


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## topshelfcigars (May 5, 2007)

I couldn't have said it any better than KidSmoker did.

Don't write off all the B and M tobacconists because of one bad experience at JRs...

It's a shame to get bad "information" like that.

I'll say one thing for JRs in Whippany - it is a real nice place to enjoy a cigar.


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## PJD (Aug 15, 2009)

Yep, that it is, and I most assuredly did just that.


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## Wiseguy1982 (Nov 17, 2009)

This reminds me of my last trip to my my OLD B&M. I went there looking for hygrometers, and he said if I was keeping 25-50 I wouldn't need one at all. :nono:


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## jst2007 (Feb 7, 2009)

im really familiar with jr in whippanny and also paramus needless to say the guys there only want to ring up your purchase and set you on your way. the only good part is the whippany store has that bar and resturant lounge,where you can have a beer or sandwich with your smoke.if you purchase a sandwich from them you get a free monticristoi tubo with your order


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## jst2007 (Feb 7, 2009)

ohh by the way heartfelt beeds is the best investment that you will ever buy period. get rid of those useless foam inserts in your humidor


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## jst2007 (Feb 7, 2009)

Heartfelt Industries, Cigar Humidification, Cigar Humidor Humidity Beads, Heartfelt Beads, quality Cigar Accessories


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## PJD (Aug 15, 2009)

Wiseguy1982 said:


> This reminds me of my last trip to my my OLD B&M. I went there looking for hygrometers, and he said if I was keeping 25-50 I wouldn't need one at all. :nono:


Surprising how messed up some folks can be. Another one of my habbits--er--hobbies is barbecue and the level of misinformation floating around out there is just downright frightening.

Speaking of bad humidor setups, I was at the local beer-by-the-case store in Wayne back in September, just before our family's summer party. They also have a modest selection of cigars in a glass-front display case so I ventured over for a look. It was a 5 shelf vertical display case measuring about 7 feet high. On the bottom was a consumer-grade electric room humidifier puffing out supposedly-humid air. They had a Caliber-III up in one corner, which read 82 degrees F and 48% RH, which was roughly what the store felt like (warm and dry).

I asked for the owner or manager of this small shop and mentioned what I saw and let him know as politely as possible that he's risking his expensive cigar inventory, if it wasn't already ruined. He had NO clue, other than the fact cigars needed humidity. Well, after about a five minute chat he thanked me and assured me that a new cabinet would be on-order and in shortly.

Last week I went back. Same case, same humidifier, same cigars on the same shelves. The Caliber-III was reading 62 degrees and 49% RH. I said nothing, but was tempted to suggest that the next time he wanted to throw away $5000 on cigars just write me a cheque and have done with it. Sad.


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## jst2007 (Feb 7, 2009)

hey pjd i dont know how far you travel for smokeshops but one of the best places to go and get cigars with a really friendly and knowlegeable staff is located about a 30 to 45 min trip to cigars international in pa. i go there on a regular basis for some really great deals, plus alot of great guys hangout in the lounge of the super store in bethleham Cigars International


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## jst2007 (Feb 7, 2009)

click on the link for info Cigars International


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## PJD (Aug 15, 2009)

jst2007 said:


> click on the link for info Cigars International


Thanks for the info. I don't really like to travel all that far, to be honest but I'll bookmark CI for when I do pass through that way. I generally let my smokes come to _me_ via the Little Brown Truck of Joy or Uncle Sam's Finest Turtles.

I'm just hoping some place not too far from me hosts a good sized herf. I'd love to get together and meet some new faces, swap stories and a few sticks, etc. As good as JR's lounge and bar are, they're not places to socialize with folks you don't really know.


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## iRace559 (Aug 27, 2009)

Unfortunately, I was once the victim of B&M advice. When I bought my humidor, I was not a member here on puff so i did not know any better. The owner told me to soak the inside of the humi with distilled water, and then leave a soaked sponge on a plastic bag inside it overnight and I was good to go. My humidity was up and down for months, and I ruined a few sticks. Thankfully, now I run beads and its stabilized itself.


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## PJD (Aug 15, 2009)

iRace559 said:


> Unfortunately, I was once the victim of B&M advice. When I bought my humidor, I was not a member here on puff so i did not know any better. The owner told me to soak the inside of the humi with distilled water, and then leave a soaked sponge on a plastic bag inside it overnight and I was good to go. My humidity was up and down for months, and I ruined a few sticks. Thankfully, now I run beads and its stabilized itself.


My first humidor experience was essentially the same but the bad advice came from the online merchant and was also printed on the included instruction sheet that came with the humidor. It took about 2 months to stabalize, and only then after going with the beads. My most recent humi arrived a few days before Thanksgiving; I followed the wisdom of this site and about 2 weeks after opening the package it's sitting rock-steady at 69% RH.


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## Smoke Rises (Dec 6, 2009)

madurolover said:


> You should have asked him if you could speed up the process by submerging your humidor in a bathtub full of boiling distilled water for 24 hours. :r


madurolover - another amusing reply. upon reading your insight information i immediately went to my 2 100 count humis and filled the tub with fresh tap water ( as i didn't want to use my good distilled water ) i'll let ya know how things turn out. thanks a bunch you da man :rotfl:


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## Smoke Rises (Dec 6, 2009)

kid smoker said:


> On the other hand, if they have a nice lounge, who cares? The don't have one at JR in North Carolina. Do they have one in Jersey?


yeah, the Whippany store is pretty happenin. full bar,restaurant and live bands.i if i remember correctly the humidor is app 5k sq ft.
i too have had issues with a guy there. it sounds like the same one to me. there were actually 2 that rubbed me the wrong way. their other location had some helpful people. can't remember the town but it's the smaller location east of the Whip store


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## PJD (Aug 15, 2009)

Smoke Rises said:


> yeah, the Whippany store is pretty happenin. full bar,restaurant and live bands.i if i remember correctly the humidor is app 5k sq ft.
> i too have had issues with a guy there. it sounds like the same one to me. there were actually 2 that rubbed me the wrong way. their other location had some helpful people. can't remember the town but it's the smaller location east of the Whip store


They also need to replace or clean out their big rear-projection TV in the lounge. All the smoke/nicotine has coated its innards and the picture is very hazy!


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## eyesack (Jul 19, 2009)

oooo mmmmm geeeeeee...


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## Nitrosportman (Oct 26, 2009)

that sucks
my wife just got back from new york while she was there she stopped by the cigar inn she had no clue what i wanted so she called me and the guy took time and talked to me about my likes and dislikes well she came home with some very fine sticks so i highly recommend the cigar inn to anyone in the new york area


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## LuciusSulla (Dec 14, 2009)

Well, if it makes any of you feel any better, some B&M folks really do take their job seriously and want to make their customers happy. I run a decently sized walk-in and am on here right now specifically reading for any tips I may not know and common problems customers are having with retailers. I take people spending money in my box pretty seriously, whether they just smoke bundles or nothing but $20 sticks. And no, I do not recommend the humidor solution when I know there is no use for it, lol. 

And a word on those counter-top "humidors" you see at gas stations. I had a woman repeatedly coming in my store for about two weeks buying crystal jars. Finally, she just explained that she had one of these counter displays. What she described to me was a total joke; it didn't even seal. The sales person who talked her into this said they would do all the servicing and that she wouldn't have to do a thing. Gas stations do have vendors that come in and contract to do this kind of thing from cigars to sunglasses. She noticed her product wasn't holding up well and first came to us to get a hygrometer. After realizing that her humidity was horrible, she started buying additional humidifiers not realizing that the whole thing was hopeless. I think after realizing that she had been ripped off, she finally told the vendor that sold her on this idea to come pick up his stuff.


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## PJD (Aug 15, 2009)

LuciusSulla said:


> Well, if it makes any of you feel any better, some B&M folks really do take their job seriously and want to make their customers happy. I run a decently sized walk-in and am on here right now specifically reading for any tips I may not know and common problems customers are having with retailers. I take people spending money in my box pretty seriously, whether they just smoke bundles or nothing but $20 sticks. And no, I do not recommend the humidor solution when I know there is no use for it, lol.


Sounds like you have a nice emporium there! Since it's in the owners' best interests, I'd guess most retailers have every intention of doing the right thing. But some either never learned or understood the correct procedures for handling and storing cigars or they hire epsilon semi-morons to man the register for them and ring up purchases who have little-to-no cigar knowledge. I'd venture to say the same goes for most B&M retailers of any specialty products.


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## jerseyjay (Nov 30, 2009)

Peter,
I had an interesting visit in Whippany as well. Guy behind the counter wasn't helpful at all and was trying to sell and move on to the next client. I felt totally ignored ! Last time I went I had a good experience. Excellent variety but inconsistent service for sure !

I need to check out the bar one of those days. What day of the week is a good day ?


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## PJD (Aug 15, 2009)

I wouldn't call their variety excellent, though they DO make up for it in quantity. The don't carry anything from Rocky Patel, Oliva or Padron which IMHO are three huge players to ignore. I'd rate their selection as "decent-to-good." 

I go to the lounge in the afternoons, usually after about 3 or so. Sometimes it's a zoo, sometimes only a few tables are occupied. Service in the bar/lounge is very good and the waitstaff are wonderful. Prices are quite fair and the selection of single malts meets with my approval. Liberals beware, however: Their TV is usually tuned to Fox News, though occasionally to ESPN.


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## jerseyjay (Nov 30, 2009)

PJD said:


> I wouldn't call their variety excellent, though they DO make up for it in quantity. The don't carry anything from Rocky Patel, Oliva or Padron which IMHO are three huge players to ignore. I'd rate their selection as "decent-to-good."


True ! I guess I treat them as B&M since I can walk-in any day and compared to smaller B&M shops, they are stocked pretty well. They are missing few mainstream brands like you said.

I couldn't find Camacho Conneticut on CI, Famous or Cigar.com ... JR had it 



> Their TV is usually tuned to Fox News, though occasionally to ESPN.


Hmmm... another turn-off !


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## friz (Jul 24, 2008)

I must be lucky. Bought my first humidor from brooklynncigars in wilmington,nc while on vacation. The owner was a new yorker like myself and sold me what I needed. For the last two years it has been flawless. He shipped it to me with a couple of cigars in it


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## smelvis (Sep 7, 2009)

On searching and reading it appears there are more complaint type threads involving JR than any other. Just from looking around I certainly didn't count!

My online experiences have lost them my business forever!! :tape:


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## PJD (Aug 15, 2009)

Well I gotta say they were fine mail-order. My go-to stick of choice is an Excalibur 1066 Dark Knight, and the box I ordered was well packaged, arrived in two days and at a lower price than anybody else I saw online. My real complaint is their B&M operation, particularly their employee knowledge and customer service at the cigar counter. Their bar, gift store, etc, are pretty good.


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