# Can You Say "NATIONALIZED HEALTHCARE"



## Cigar Diva (May 14, 2007)

Our Senators and Congressmen are now "back in secession" deciding for us, what is best for us (because YOU are to stupid to make your own decisions). Please do not hold me to this, but I have heard the bill out of congress is a across the board $1.00/cigar tax with a floor tax due April 1, 2008. The bill that passed out of OUR senate graciously caps cigar tax at $10.00/cigar with a floor tax of 43% DUE APRIL 1, 2008.

IPCPR (formerly known as RTDA) estimates 97% of B&M will go out of business overnight.

Cigars are less than 1% of the tobacco industry.

EQUAL TREATMENT!!!!!!

TAX ME 2,000% OR 20,000%, then TAX EVERY OTHER BUSINESS IN MY UNITED STATES OF AMERICA EXACTLY THE SAME!!!!!

My battle cry is EQUAL TREATMENT!

TAX ME, TAX MY NEIGHBOR!!!

How many small businesses can survive a 2,000% tax increase, much less a 20,000% tax increase?


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## Labman (May 27, 2007)

Wiser words were never spoken, Lynn. They are just trying to make an example out of tobacco companies. Unfortunately, for us, they are targeting the little guys...i.e. the cigar companies. If they really wanted to make money for their SCHIP, they would go after the huge cigarette industry.


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## Tha Criddler (Jul 26, 2007)

NATIONALIZED HEALTHCARE...it sounded good in the beginning.


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## JohnR (Apr 1, 2007)

I am really hoping for that VETO! Something tells me, a deal will be worked out that WE WON'T LIKE!


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## Tha Criddler (Jul 26, 2007)

JohnRider said:


> I am really hoping for that VETO! Something tells me, a deal will be worked out that WE WON'T LIKE!


I get that same feeling.


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## SMOKING HANDSOME DUDE (May 24, 2007)

Lynn, I understand what you are saying. What can I do to help? Seems like all the replys are saying oh to bad. We need to do something.

Darren


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## cigarsmoka-cl (Jul 31, 2007)

I think that the floor tax is the real business killer here. The whole thing sucks!


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## Cigar Diva (May 14, 2007)

cigarsmoka said:


> I think that the floor tax is the real business killer here. The whole thing sucks!


Your right, the floor tax is a SUDDEN death. Would your rather die a slow painful death or a sudden death? The size of the tax increase will create an overnight black market that will still put many, if not most of B&M's out of business, only slowly. Certainly it might be more possible to survive a tax increase on only new product purchased, it is still one hell of a hill to climb for the B&M's.


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## tobacmon (May 17, 2007)

I can't beleve these guy's--It really pisses me off to see the guy's (that are probably smoking illegals) get away with this bulls***--I can't stand these mother Fluckers!! Finally something I found that I enjoy to do and the Nazi Goverment takes it away...This is CRAP---


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## JohnR (Apr 1, 2007)

Look out. The $10 Roly is coming our way.


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## JTokash-cl (Jul 22, 2007)

I saw a video by Rocky Patel and he said he (i.e. his lawyers) is/are trying to fight this taxation on cigars based on the Central American Free Trade Agreement. From what I understand (which might be wrong...), it's not "legal" to tax anything coming from the countries in the agreement. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems as if Rocky might have found a loophole to the cigar tax.

Regards,
-JT


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## JohnR (Apr 1, 2007)

TheScienceGuy said:


> I saw a video by Rocky Patel and he said he (i.e. his lawyers) is/are trying to fight this taxation on cigars based on the Central American Free Trade Agreement. From what I understand (which might be wrong...), it's not "legal" to tax anything coming from the countries in the agreement. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems as if Rocky might have found a loophole to the cigar tax.
> 
> Regards,
> -JT


Call me a cynic, but I don't think Congress is going to let a pesky trade agreement get in the way of their saving the children.


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## Cigar Diva (May 14, 2007)

JohnRider said:


> Call me a cynic, but I don't think Congress is going to let a pesky trade agreement get in the way of their saving the children.


Why should they start now? After All, John Edwards stated that gun ownership is a privilege and NOT a right. I guess he as a different version of the Constitution than I do.


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## Tha Criddler (Jul 26, 2007)

I was just curious what the "Hang'em From the Nearest Tree!" in your signature meant?


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## Cigar Diva (May 14, 2007)

Tha Criddler said:


> I was just curious what the "Hang'em From the Nearest Tree!" in your signature meant?


I'm a Texan with a strong belief in our founding fathers belief in limited government, tradition, and history. Texas has such a rich history of individual independence, self reliance, and standing up for our individual right, beliefs, and traditions, and to now have to spend hours upon hours fighting for what our forefathers have already fought for, just pops my cork.

Between "State-Wide" smoking bans and now the proposed Federal "EXISE" tax to fund NATIONALIZED HEALTH CARE under the heading of "IT'S FOR THE CHILDREN", that if passed with the proposed floor tax, will put me out of business overnight. YEA, "HANG'EM (our elected officials) FROM THE NEAREST TREE!" At this point, I do not know if I will have a business in 4 shorts months from now and EVERYTHING my husband and I have worked all of our lives to build along with our entire life savings could possible evaporate overnight and we could find ourselves in more debt than we can ever pay off due to legislation to fund health care for children that I did not have and do think I should have to support. The current proposed legislation would fund healthcare for children of families making $80,000/year of less from birth to age 25 (even if they get married) and I won't even mention the illegal aliens that this funds.

I have only ONE question for our elected officials. How is putting me out of business going to fund ANYTHING?


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## Cigar Diva (May 14, 2007)

Labman said:


> Wiser words were never spoken, Lynn. They are just trying to make an example out of tobacco companies. Unfortunately, for us, they are targeting the little guys...i.e. the cigar companies. If they really wanted to make money for their SCHIP, they would go after the huge cigarette industry.


Or how about the fast food industry that is causing some of the health care problems for the "CHILDREN". Lets put a *20,000%* tax on Big Mac's or Kid's Meals.


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## Cigar Diva (May 14, 2007)

JohnRider said:


> I am really hoping for that VETO! Something tells me, a deal will be worked out that WE WON'T LIKE!


I have looked at your post several times and I would like to know what your thinking is in hoping for a VETO. It is not the first time I have heard that Bush will veto the bill, I just have not seen, historically, anything to indicate that would happen.


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## happy1 (Jun 29, 2007)

Cigar Diva said:


> Or how about the fast food industry that is causing some of the health care problems for the "CHILDREN". Lets put a *20,000%* tax on Big Mac's or Kid's Meals.


Amen Brother what are they going to do when they dont get the money they thought they would? They need to reform the medicaid system and contoll all the b*llshit spending


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## lawdaug_1 (Apr 19, 2007)

It just shows you how stupid their line of thinking is, Lets put a huge tax on cigars for the kids but if we can not afford the cigars their would be no money for the kids. They are not thinking!!!! DAAAAH


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## havanitascigars-cl (Apr 29, 2007)

Part of the problem here is us and the tobacco industry. For years, whenever any government (state or federal) needed more money they proposed a tobacco tax and we accepted it. When smoking bans are put in place, we accept it. Sure, we send letters to officials, but what threat can we make, "I won't vote for you"? We are a minority and they know it. They also know most people will not make their decision based on views on tobacco, but on other things. 

We also allow people to say, "I do not care if they tax tobacco. I do not smoke." We need to educate the public on why we should be allowed to continue to smoke if we choose. We need to explain to them how the governmnet bans our passion this time, but what will be next? The Big Macs mentioned above are on the block. New York has already attempted to restrict fast food.

The industry needs to form a strong coalition. Often these cigar companies and tobacco companies keep to themselves because they are too small to do anything alone. The larger companies are based overseas and do not concern themselves with taxes here.

The tobacco industry needs to unite like the alcohol industry does. Do you think Anheuser-Busch would allow this legislation to go through? They would lobby and fight. Imagine trying to enforce an alcohol ban. It has been tried and it failed. The industry would not allow such a ban to happen again.

As I said in another thread, the Constitution is designed to protect the rights of individual groups from mob rule. What other example can you find of the mob trampling on the rights of a small group than in the case of tobacco use?


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## PremiumsOnly (Jul 28, 2007)

Cigar Diva said:


> I have looked at your post several times and I would like to know what your thinking is in hoping for a VETO. It is not the first time I have heard that Bush will veto the bill, I just have not seen, historically, anything to indicate that would happen.


It has been mentioned in many national news headlines. You can read one mention of it at http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/78550.php


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## shrtcrt (Jan 29, 2006)

I thought the President could not veto it since it got enough votes. This tax makes no sense at all and the back tax is just stupid. Lets look at the crazy cost of health care in this country. Why is a 5 minute visit with the dr. over $100! How crazy is that. Lets spend money on teaching people to eat fresh and non processed foods. The growth of fast food and over processed food has caused the health care problems, not enjoying a fine cigar.


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## Cigar Diva (May 14, 2007)

shrtcrt said:


> I thought the President could not veto it since it got enough votes. This tax makes no sense at all and the back tax is just stupid. Lets look at the crazy cost of health care in this country. Why is a 5 minute visit with the dr. over $100! How crazy is that. Lets spend money on teaching people to eat fresh and non processed foods. The growth of fast food and over processed food has caused the health care problems, not enjoying a fine cigar.


My understanding of the way the legislation stands at this point is that both the house and senate *passed "SCHIPS" legislation* with a substantial tobacco tax increase with a moderate (as compared to the other categories of tobacco) increase in cigarette tobacco tax. Pipe tobacco would jump about 300%, roll your own cigarette tobacco about 800%, and cigar tax increase is somewhere between *2,000%* and *20,000%*. Since the bills passed out of their respective bodies differently, it now goes to *"committee"* in an attempt to find something the house and senate can both agree upon. Historically, committees are heavily weighted with supporters/co-authors of the bill.

The President *can* veto any legislation but with enough votes (3/4), the legislative bodies can override the President's veto. The senate *(THANK YOU KAY (THROW AMERICANS UNDER THE BUS) BAILEY HUTCHINSON)* has enough support to override a veto, but the house does not. Bush does not have a great track record for vetoing bad/poor legislation and I have grave concerns that this legislation will be any different.


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## CBCyclone (Mar 21, 2007)

> NATIONALIZED HEALTHCARE...it sounded good in the beginning.


Not to me it didn't. I refuse to work my ass off to pay for health care for some lazy f**k who wants to sit on his ass watching TV and drinking beer all day! And that's waht natiinalized health care ends up doing, giving coverage to those who CAN work but choose to be lazy and unproductive.


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## shrtcrt (Jan 29, 2006)

Cigar Diva said:


> Why should they start now? After All, John Edwards stated that gun ownership is a privilege and NOT a right. I guess he as a different version of the Constitution than I do.


I have the same version that you do, and that CCW permit I have in my wallet and 9mm on my side proves it. Sorry but if someone who does not care about being a law abiding citizen will carry, then someone who WANTS to obey the laws should be able to.

I don't think anyone knows what is going on anymore. Why we let anyone have this much control over things is outrageous. Lets look at the REAL reasons people are sick, quality of food, and too many prescription pills. When I start feeling bad, I don't think that I need to pop a pill or take some drugs, al though sometimes I do a shot of NyQuill and it goes away. But for the most part I take like to take anything. People just want to take a pill and make it go away. Lets do something about that.


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## PV1191 (Dec 9, 2007)

Cali Tax retail tax for hand rolled cigars is 47%. I was looking at starting a distributorship or even a B&M until I found that out. OUCH! Now I understand why Curly Heads are $4 to $6 each in the stores here.


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## nativetexan_1 (Jan 1, 2008)

My problem with nationalized heathcare is that, try as you might, you can't find authorization for Congress to get into it in the Constitution. Doesn't Congress still have to follow the Constitution? If so, where do they find such authorization? We haven't given them cart blanc to do as they please have we? Send 'em packing.


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## Sea Jay (Jan 28, 2008)

CBCyclone said:


> Not to me it didn't. I refuse to work my ass off to pay for health care for some lazy f**k who wants to sit on his ass watching TV and drinking beer all day! And that's waht natiinalized health care ends up doing, giving coverage to those who CAN work but choose to be lazy and unproductive.


*You took the words out of my mouth. *

Cigar Diva - I also live in Texas and share your thoughts about Hutchinson. As if we don't already pay enough money in property taxes. I paid less in Florida where I lived right on the Atlantic ocean. I live in a small middle class home now in Texas and pay nearly $5,000 in property taxes. This is robbery!


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## stig-cl (Nov 13, 2007)

nativetexan_1 said:


> My problem with nationalized heathcare is that, try as you might, you can't find authorization for Congress to get into it in the Constitution. Doesn't Congress still have to follow the Constitution? If so, where do they find such authorization? We haven't given them cart blanc to do as they please have we? Send 'em packing.


The Constitution is by no means comprehensive, and all three branches of the federal government have taken on powers not specifically designated in the Constitution. If Congress steps over the line, the execute and judicial branches will step in and keep them in check.


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## JeffyB (Oct 24, 2007)

My feelings on this SCHIP thing is to tax the things that are actually making kids sick, causing diabetes, etc... - tax the video game systems/cartridges, fast food, sodas, high fructose corn syrup food items, etc.

Since this program is a "mandatory funded" program, it needs to have funding coming in. If everyone who currently smokes quits/purchases online/black market, there's no tax income coming into the system, and something else would have to be taxed. In addition, one quote I saw was that the Dems need 20-40,000 *NEW* smokers to fund this program for the duration that they want.

The thing that really p!sses me off about what the Dems want is that the program would include families that make up to 60K/year, increase the eligibility cut-off age from 18 to 23 or 24, and make it so that no documentation of citizenship would be needed to enroll in the program - can we say ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS being eligible? Sorry, I don't want to be paying for them...

Just my $.02...


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## havanitascigars-cl (Apr 29, 2007)

stig said:


> The Constitution is by no means comprehensive, and all three branches of the federal government have taken on powers not specifically designated in the Constitution. If Congress steps over the line, the execute and judicial branches will step in and keep them in check.


HAHAHAHA... I am sorry, but this is not even close to the truth. What about the Patriot Act? It violates several rights of the Constitution. The President pushed, Congress passed it and most legislators admit they never read it before voting for it, and the Supreme Court has refused to hear cases against it. There are so many violations of the Constitution that the entire government refuses to check one could fill volumes writing about them.


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## Cigary4343 (Jul 12, 2008)

I'm with ya and I have a ton of trees in the backyard some with branches that you can hang a bull elephant from!


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## Cowboyjeans (Feb 27, 2008)

Why the heck do we elect such fools to run our government. This is representative government, so how come we are not represented? I want a return to the constitution and less obtrusive government, but when the public schools can fill our kids minds full or communism, this is what we get.


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## Oxman (Jun 28, 2008)

Oh, the sweeping generalizations that pop up when the discussion gets political! Sure...blame the Democrats because of evil taxes. The approved-by-Fox-News Republicans have NO blame in this issue for their decades-long protection of Big Tobacco, right?


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## CBCyclone (Mar 21, 2007)

> Republicans have NO blame in this issue for their decades-long protection of Big Tobacco, right?


And protecting YOUR rights as a smoker at the same time. If it was up to the liberals this website wouldn't even exist because cigar smoking would be considered a capital crime.

And this is no sweeping generalization when I say that the Democratic party and the liberals have ruined this country with their constant policies of coddling criminals, freely handing out money to lazy people who don't want to work, and throwing money at problems rather than fixing them.

And this is coming from a former Democrat who got out in working world and saw first hand what Democrat policies have done to commerce in this country and was appalled and disgusted by it.


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## Oxman (Jun 28, 2008)

I'm out. People cannot discuss political differences without venom. It seems that too many people have lost the ability to disagree without being disagreeable. And since I'm not a Fox News disciple, I should keep a low profile.


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## CBCyclone (Mar 21, 2007)

There was no venom in what I wrote. Its' just my opinion. I have no hatred towards liberals. I just feel that their policies are counterprodcutive in a free-enterprise system.


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## flathead59 (Feb 1, 2008)

Oxman said:


> I'm out. People cannot discuss political differences without venom. It seems that too many people have lost the ability to disagree without being disagreeable. And since I'm not a Fox News disciple, I should keep a low profile.


And deciding people are "Fox News disciples" isn't venom? Damn I must have missed that broadcast on CNN.


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