# How many packing error do you tolerate?



## gcbright (Dec 1, 2012)

Hi,

Recently saw a message chain about a shipping error where a lot of good people came to the defense of the vendor with comments like:

Did you give them a chance to make it right?

To me, any packing error isn't about the vendor making it right, it is about the fact it happened at all. As I have gotten older and moved into a consulting project manager role, I have gotten less tolerant about vender related packing errors be it under or over shipping an item or shipping the wrong item. I have a zero tolerance rule with all vendors. One screw up and they are off the goto list. It isn't about them making it right, because everyone will make it right. It is about the loss of my time spent getting it corrected with them and my time spent adjusting timelines on projects.

I also find I have taken the same level of intolerance into my personal mail order experiences. If an organization doesn't have good enough quality assurance to pack and ship the right product in the right amount, I take my business elsewhere without best price being an issue.

Anyway, all of this got me to thinking. How many error do you tolerate from a source before you go elsewhere and does best price effect your decision to move on or stay with them?


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## Scott W. (Jul 10, 2008)

It was not about tolerating mistakes, the comments were to suggest waiting to see what the vendor does to fix it before public ally flaming them.


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## gcbright (Dec 1, 2012)

scottw said:


> It was not about tolerating mistakes, the comments were to suggest waiting to see what the vendor does to fix it before public ally flaming them.


I think you are sort of missing my point. Everyone will fix an error or problem. The issue is when an error occurs in the first place. Has project management turned me into a crazy person just shy of the tinfoil hat people with my attitude towards zero tolerance on vendor errors?


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## MarkC (Jul 4, 2009)

gcbright said:


> As I have gotten older and moved into a consulting project manager role, I have gotten less tolerant about vender related packing errors be it under or over shipping an item or shipping the wrong item.


Funny, as I've gotten older, I've become more tolerant of mistakes by people. Sure, if they're constantly fouling up, that's one thing, but tolerating an occasional lapse makes me feel a bit less embarrassed when I make my inevitable mistake...


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## Mante (Dec 25, 2009)

scottw said:


> It was not about tolerating mistakes, the comments were to suggest waiting to see what the vendor does to fix it before publicly flaming them.


:tpd::tu There was no need to reference the other thread to ask a question.

To answer the OP's question: I could not care how it is packed/shipped as long as the product arrives in the condition I purchased it in within a reasonable time frame. Mistakes happen in life & unless I'm screwed around by the same company numerous times (and able to put the problem on the company alone) I am happy to supply plenty of leeway.


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## gcbright (Dec 1, 2012)

MarkC said:


> Funny, as I've gotten older, I've become more tolerant of mistakes by people. Sure, if they're constantly fouling up, that's one thing, but tolerating an occasional lapse makes me feel a bit less embarrassed when I make my inevitable mistake...


Hi Mark,

Tolerance for mistakes by individuals I have. You will make mistakes, I will make mistakes. Vendors should have quality control measures in place to prevent the mistake of any one individual impacting the customer. I would rather pay more money to a company that has one guy pack a shipment and another guy check it before it ships than continue a relationship with a company that doesn't have a good quality assurance system in place.


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## Thoroughbred (Jul 19, 2011)

This is a perfectly legitimate question. I tend to give vendors the time needed to correct any issue, and I haven't been disappointed with the results of my chosen vendors. I agree that the vast majority of vendors will correct their mistakes, and those who do not will not be in business very long. I will say that I'm fairly careful in selecting vendors though. I'm looking for bargains on my favorite cigars (in addition to reliable service) so it's a bit of a balancing act.

I think you draw an appropriate comparison with operations in your own business. However, as I think about it, there are some interesting differences in the cigar business that I rarely see in other businesses. For example, manufacturers regularly compliment (and publicly consume) their competitor's products. There is more of a united front with competitors in the cigar business, which has a lot to do with the challenges faced by the industry. Somehow, this united feeling is also felt among the end consumers, hence the term B/SOTL.

As for when enough is enough, that is a personal choice for each customer. Luckily, my patience hasn't been tested to any great degree. Just my 2 cents.


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## Stradawhovious (Oct 17, 2012)

Shit happens.

People make mistakes.

Maybe the shipping guy had a bad day? Happens to all of us.

To me It's how the mistakes are handled. 

So yes, give them time to own up to the mistakes, and make it right. Its a pipe dream to expect shipping and receiving departments that move such a large quantity of merchandise to operate at six-sigma levels.


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## splattttttt (May 17, 2012)

gcbright said:


> I think you are sort of missing my point. Everyone will fix an error or problem. The issue is when an error occurs in the first place. Has project management turned me into a crazy person just shy of the tinfoil hat people with my attitude towards zero tolerance on vendor errors?


what are you gonna do after every one you trust ****s you over? Just askin?


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## Scott W. (Jul 10, 2008)

Great point Jack


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## splattttttt (May 17, 2012)

scottw said:


> Great point Jack


Thanks Scott. I always complain to vendors when they screw up. They usually let me keep the crap and send me what I asked for later lol. But I'm small time.


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## IBEW (Jan 17, 2009)

IMO, having zero tolerance with vendor/QC mistakes is unreasonable. I've always rated vendors not by their mistakes, but by how they correct them. 

As a business owner, if a customer told me they have zero tolerance for errors, I'd fire them as a customer!


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## splattttttt (May 17, 2012)

IBEW said:


> IMO, having zero tolerance with vendor/QC mistakes is unreasonable. I've always rated vendors not by their mistakes, but by how they correct them.
> 
> As a business owner, if a customer told me they have zero tolerance for errors, I'd fire them as a customer!


I actually did that once. Said, sorry! I'm not what you're looking for lol.


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## IBEW (Jan 17, 2009)

splattttttt said:


> I actually did that once. Said, sorry! I'm not what you're looking for lol.


It is a good feeling.
I had a customer get a major attitude with one of our people. Oh no, big mistake!

Back to the OP/subject - I think eventually you're going to run out of vendors!


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## usrower321 (Mar 27, 2011)

Keep in mind these people aren't shipping your lifesaving medications. They're shipping cigars/cigar accessories. I certainly think you're being unreasonable.

Have you ever made a mistake at your place of employment? I'm damn sure you wanted to do everything you could to make it right and you hoped your client/boss didn't fire you for one mistake.

I pray you don't fire your employees for one mistake. Everyone has off days, we're human beings.


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## splattttttt (May 17, 2012)

another great point.


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## kapathy (Nov 20, 2010)

Its impossible to get every single order fullfilled perfectly. As long as humans stock, sort, pick, pack and ship....there will be mistakes. I used to work at a warehouse picking motorcycle parts..... I know nothing about motorcycles....all I did was pick what I was told to pick...if something was in the wrong place I would have no idea. Esp since I wouldnt get a real description just a location and name (such as aisle 32 section d shelf 5 location 6- chain) I would scan the label and into the box. Gotta figure its the same in a cigar warehouse. Oh also then add in the whole quota aspect where if your not filling your orders fast enough blah blah blah blah blah....fact of the matter is mistakes happen. Do you carry the same zero tolerance in every other aspect of your life? Ever go to a restaurant and get an under/over cooked steak, or have your neighbors mail delivered to your house, have your cable company double charge for some bs?


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## Mante (Dec 25, 2009)

IBEW said:


> As a business owner, if a customer told me they have zero tolerance for errors, I'd fire them as a customer!


Here. here.


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## CigarGoogler (Sep 23, 2012)

Stradawhovious said:


> Shit happens.
> 
> People make mistakes.
> 
> ...


Exactly...and being black-belt certified (the nomiclature is still hilarious to me), I can assure everyone that mistakes will still occur with any volume.


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## bigjohn89 (Dec 14, 2012)

To each his/her own. My tolerance level for anything is outweighed by my forgiving nature. If u continually get it wrong thats another story!


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## gcbright (Dec 1, 2012)

IBEW said:


> IMO, having zero tolerance with vendor/QC mistakes is unreasonable. I've always rated vendors not by their mistakes, but by how they correct them.
> 
> As a business owner, if a customer told me they have zero tolerance for errors, I'd fire them as a customer!


The question is where is your breaking point? The 1st error, the 2nd or the 30th? I do not view my standard on packing errors outlandish. I deal with 5 to 10 vendors a year for shipments between 100 and 150. In the last two years, none of my vendors has had a packing error. Now there have been shipper screw ups (There is a black hole in GA, where shipments have vanished without a trace.) but those do not count. Although there is one national package shipper that we do not use for anything out of Atlanta. I pay slightly more but having reliable sources is worth the extra money.

QA on packing is too easy. It is not a holy grail, it is an easily attainable outcome. There are too many things that are beyond the seller and customers control with purchases, those things that can be controlled should be controlled. Shipments can get lost or damaged, sealed parts can be defective, those things happen. But packing the right contents for shipping and checking that shipment for accuracy is the one item that is controllable.


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## bigjohn89 (Dec 14, 2012)

gcbright said:


> QA on packing is too easy. It is not a holy grail, it is an easily attainable outcome. There are too many things that are beyond the seller and customers control with purchases, those things that can be controlled should be controlled. Shipments can get lost or damaged, sealed parts can be defective, those things happen. But packing the right contents for shipping and checking that shipment for accuracy is the one item that is controllable.


This i can agree with. If yourobs sole purpose is to make sure a.b.c.d is in the box......then it should ne a.b.c.d 100%is of the time. Real life though tells me the warehouse/qa/qc guy is human and prone to mistakes. Everyones threshold is different.


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## gcbright (Dec 1, 2012)

bigjohn89 said:


> Real life though tells me the warehouse/qa/qc guy is human and prone to mistakes. Everyones threshold is different.


Hi John,

I find that the two man system (sometimes 3) works wonders. One guy packs, one guy checks and sometimes with some vendors a 3rd guy rechecks. I am willing to pay that little bit extra to get it right the first time. What is your tolerance level os packing?

Thanks


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## bigjohn89 (Dec 14, 2012)

gcbright said:


> Hi John,
> 
> I find that the two man system (sometimes 3) works wonders. One guy packs, one guy checks and sometimes with some vendors a 3rd guy rechecks. I am willing to pay that little bit extra to get it right the first time. What is your tolerance level os packing?
> 
> Thanks


While i have no experience buying cigars and 
having them shipped......i have recieved many 
shipments and my tolerance level is low. I agree the standard should be get it right the first time. 2 strikes and you are out with me.


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## gcbright (Dec 1, 2012)

bigjohn89 said:


> While i have no experience buying cigars and
> having them shipped......i have recieved many
> shipments and my tolerance level is low. I agree the standard should be get it right the first time. 2 strikes and you are out with me.


Hi John,

I saw that you are located in GA. Do you ever have any problems with a shipment falling into a black hole? There was a time a few years ago, that my supplier down there had to start using a different shipper for anything that left their warehouse. The shipment would literally just disappear. The last tracking data would be it was picked up, rcvd at the main warehouse for the state, sometimes left there never to be heard from again.

Thanks


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## bigjohn89 (Dec 14, 2012)

gcbright said:


> Hi John,
> 
> I saw that you are located in GA. Do you ever have any problems with a shipment falling into a black hole? There was a time a few years ago, that my supplier down there had to start using a different shipper for anything that left their warehouse. The shipment would literally just disappear. The last tracking data would be it was picked up, rcvd at the main warehouse for the state, sometimes left there never to be heard from again.
> 
> Thanks


I have had 2-3 shipments (all UPS) disappear from existance. I know USPS is crazy slow for shipping in GA.


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## szyzk (Nov 27, 2010)

The cigar vendor who gets it right 100% of the time doesn't exist.


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## gcbright (Dec 1, 2012)

bigjohn89 said:


> I have had 2-3 shipments (all UPS) disappear from existance. I know USPS is crazy slow for shipping in GA.


Some things never change. The Bermuda Triangle of shipments is not off the coast of Florida, but alive and well in your state and haunts the guys in brown more than any other entity.


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## bigjohn89 (Dec 14, 2012)

gcbright said:


> Some things never change. The Bermuda Triangle of shipments is not off the coast of Florida, but alive and well in your state and haunts the guys in brown more than any other entity.


Not to drag this out but UPS lost one shipment that was 3 boxes. It was some of my wifes Mary Kay makeup. Lost all 3to boxes once it hit the peach state!!!!


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## gcbright (Dec 1, 2012)

bigjohn89 said:


> Not to drag this out but UPS lost one shipment that was 3 boxes. It was some of my wifes Mary Kay makeup. Lost all 3to boxes once it hit the peach state!!!!


Hi John,

Thanks for confirming that some things never change. If Amelia Earhart vanished today she would be last seen driving a UPS truck in GA. Wow, a three box shipment, tell your wife I think she set the record!


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## hogjaw (Jun 14, 2012)

solely a personal decision - not public decision.

Important point to make - qty of vendors supplying product????

Coming out of manufacturing 30 yrs, the Big 3 had this type approach - no tolerance for mistakes. Reference: Google to see their status over past 10 years and trail of decline/failure/bailout.

I live in real world, no fantasy here - just my opinion.


gcbright said:


> Hi,
> 
> Recently saw a message chain about a shipping error where a lot of good people came to the defense of the vendor with comments like:
> 
> ...


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## kra961 (May 16, 2012)

I would have to say you going to experience and very small list of vendors you'll go to and eventually no vendors you can go to. 

Mistakes happen problems arise process break no matter how much control you think you have you are still dealing with humans and we are by and large an imperfect lot. if your tolerance levels doesn't accept the fact that you are dealing with humans in the process then I think there are larger issues not related to shipping or vendor problem that you are talking about. 

Not trying to be snide or rude here but I strongly doubt you yourself are 100% perfect in what you do in your profession or as a human. 

As long as a vendor attempts to make an issue right I have no problem with issues arising, as the saying goes poo does happen. If on the other hand the vendor or shipper does not make the attempt to make it right then I will stop giving my business to them and eventually they will no longer be in business. 

Just my 2 cent's.


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## yellowv (Dec 24, 2011)

Man you must be a joy to deal with. People make mistakes plain and simple. There is no level of QC that is going to insure a mistake never happens. As everyone else has said it is all about how it is taken care of. As for the two and three guys to check the package for accuracy... good luck with that. Most businesses these days either can barely afford the one guy , more or less 2 to check his work, or will run as tight a budget as possible to make the most money.


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## ShortFuse (Jun 6, 2011)

Tashaz said:


> :tpd::tu There was no need to reference the other thread to ask a question.
> 
> To answer the OP's question: I could not care how it is packed/shipped as long as the product arrives in the condition I purchased it in within a reasonable time frame. Mistakes happen in life & unless I'm screwed around by the same company numerous times (and able to put the problem on the company alone) I am happy to supply plenty of leeway.


Warren prefers having his cigars shipped upside down so they dont have to acclimate as long. Being said, he would of run out of vendors some time ago.


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## gcbright (Dec 1, 2012)

yellowv said:


> Man you must be a joy to deal with.


Well most days. I did discover that there are companies out there that really do check their stuff and you can count on them to control their internal process and give excellent service. They will never be the best price, but they will always be the most reliable. Unless they are shipping UPS from a GA warehouse and then all bets are off.


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## teedles915 (Jun 18, 2009)

I think this one has ran its course. If you guys would like to continue this conversation please do so by pm.


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