# yet another real or fake



## cwaddell_1 (Feb 27, 2004)

First off, I want to thank everyone for their replies in advance. 

Next I will let you know that I am a newbie to the cigar smoking lifestyle. I am only 24. I have been smoking for about 2 years at a rate of about 2 to 3 cigars per week. I have been smoking mostly Padrons, Punches, Don Tomas, and others. 

A couple of weeks ago I purchased a box of Montecirsto #2's (Cuban) from a supposed reliable source. After receiving the box I hit the internet and read up on fakes and counterfeit cubans. Having no experience with Cubans, other than some fakes I have gotten in the past, I can only rely on the visual signs of spotting a fake. So far everything seems legit except the ring. The government seal looks to be real down to the micro scripting. The "Habanos sa..." stamp is a heat stamp, the factory code is EOG Feb 03, and the Habanos seal is in the correct place and looks to be real. The Habenos gaurantee was in the box as well as the strip of wax paper across the bands. The piece of cedar between the layers is in good shape and has the finger cut out in the top right hand corner. The cigars look to be in very good shape and uniform in both color and size. They smell great and taste very good. I have smoked some Padron 1926 and 1964 series and these cigars are as good if not better, yet still different. The cigars are firm, not hard, and have no soft spots. I cant check the cap since it is a torpedo. The only other thing I know to do is to cut one open and see if it has long filler or short filler. 

Now back to the band. It does not match the band on CA but it is an exact match for the band on the Montecristo C LE 2003. My question is whether they have started putting these new bands on other Monte's or if these are fakes with the wrong band on them. Attached is a pick of the band I am talking about on the Montecristo C LE 2003.


By the way I spent 200 on the box and he does offer a large selection of other cubans at various prices. he claims he has a connection in Miami that gets them from Cuba but isnt sure exactly how. 

Thanks again.


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## Matt R (Dec 12, 1997)

"By the way I spent 200 on the box and he does offer a large selection of other cubans at various prices. he claims he has a connection in Miami that gets them from Cuba but isnt sure exactly how."

I believe you have answered your own question......


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## jimmy (May 1, 2003)

> he claims he has a connection in Miami that gets them from Cuba but isnt sure exactly how.


if i had a dollar......

was dooped by that same line myself in the beginning

good luck
jimmy


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## cwaddell_1 (Feb 27, 2004)

thanks for the help.

now, the next question is: is there some where I can view the wholesale prices for cubans? I figure this is the best way to let my supplier know he is dealing in fakes. I think he honestly believes he is selling the real thing. I think he has just been duped by an excellent fake. also is it worth it to cut one of these open to check the filler? this seems to be end all way of telling if it is fake or not other than experience. 

my next question is a bit of a moral one. i have read the opinions of those on this site that continuing to purchase fakes when you know it is a fake is a horrible thing to do. I do respect the art of smoking cigars and in no way do I want to degrade that art. But these fakes are really good and less than what I would pay for the Padron 1926's which are my favorites. is it wrong for me to continue to buy these cigars? should I just bite the bullet, save up, and buy the real thing.

And if I do decide to bite the bullet are there any reliable sites? after doing some studying, I have even been able to pick out fake Cohibas on some websites just by looking at the bands. also what should I expect to pay for a real box of Monte #2's?


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## jimmy (May 1, 2003)

> I think he honestly believes he is selling the real thing.


it happens all the time. usually to non smokers, or brand new smokers.



> is it worth it to cut one of these open to check the filler?


absolutely. that will be the true tell.



> is it wrong for me to continue to buy these cigars? should I just bite the bullet, save up, and buy the real thing.


if you enjoy them, that is all that really matters in my opinion. just don't try to pass them off as authentic to anyone. fakes are usually still cuban tobacco, and a lot of them very good cigars.



> also what should I expect to pay for a real box of Monte #2's?


$250-300

enjoy!
jimmy


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## WACigar (Feb 17, 2003)

I would say, if you like them, buy them. I have a box of Montecristo #2 that I'm pretty sure are fake but they are quite good.


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## poker (Dec 11, 1997)

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
is it wrong for me to continue to buy these cigars? should I just bite the bullet, save up, and buy the real thing.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


The only person that can answer that is you.

I have my own opinions, but I think everyone here knows my answer & why.


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## Matt R (Dec 12, 1997)

Well, I am not shy enough to answer the question of your dilemna to buy or not. Purchasing counterfeit Habanos only strengthens the counterfeiters pockets, allowing them to screw uknowing people over and over again. So, good or not, it is wrong to continue to support the counterfeiters.


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## Fredster (Jan 26, 2004)

For $200.00 you can get a box of Monte #2's that are REAL from duty free Spain.(a bit more with shipping) Speaking as someone who lives in Florida, anything you buy in the States is guaranteed to be fake,whether from Miami or wherever. The fakes I have smoked, I wouldn't pay anything for. Yes they are usually cuban tobacco, but they are not quality long filler, a lot of times literally scraps swept off the floors in the Cuban factories. Also, as Matt stated you are supporting their cause and that hurts the legit Habanos business. There are lots of legit websites that will ship to the states, just have to do some research.


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## cwaddell_1 (Feb 27, 2004)

ok guys, I was with my friend who supplied me with the Monte 2's yesterday. I told him that I'm not sure that these cigars are real. He stated that to the best of his knowledge they are. 

He also had a brand new box of Cohiba Siglo VI's and gave me a one. I saw him break the seals and I inspected the box. From everything I have read and seen on the Internet, everything looked real: the box, seals, stamps, bands, ect. They have a triple cap as well. When I got home I cut it open. This is the first cigar I have ever done this to so I need some help on if this is long filler or short filler. From compairing them to other pics on the internet it looks to be long filler. I have tried to post some pics but it is saying that my message is too big. If anyone would be willing to let me email these pics to you and you could take a look at them I would be very grateful. Thank you all for your help!


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## CaseyRobusto (Mar 2, 2004)

First time poster. Wonderful Forum by the way. I'm going through this real or fake debate as well with Montecristo #1. The bands on mine look a little off. The color on them seems faded. I tryed to have one today but there wasn't any draw whatsoever. That is not normally the case with Montecristo's. Or any cigar for that matter. I'm going to take them down to my local cigar store. See what the boys have to say. Finally hello to all you out there keep up the good posts there very helpfull. 
P.s. Good luck cwaddell.


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## Bruce5 (Jul 27, 2003)

Counterfeiting is a very easy thing to do. Look at the watch industry. If people in Hong Kong can make a fake Rolex that 
looks identical (and I have seen them) and sell them for $50.00,
how easy would it be to fake a wood box, a label and a cigar.
.
I have seen perfectly counterfeited cigars, bands and boxes.
When I tasted the cigar, I could tell it was fake. 
.
One way for you to tell if your cigars are fake is to have an 
experienced ISOM smoker smoke one. For the $8.00 you paid for the cigar it is easily worth the peace of mind.
.
You could mail a cigar to one of the gorillas on this site.
I am not trying to relieve you of one of your cigars, just a long drawn out headache. Good Luck.


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## Bruce5 (Jul 27, 2003)

Oh yeah, there are plenty of experienced smokers in the 
Orange County/Southern Cal area.


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## MoTheMan (May 24, 2003)

Bruce,

I hear that you might be interested in moving to Orange County/SoCal area?!?!?!

There are plenty of experienced smokers out there, I understand. [LOL]

BTW cwaddell_1, my only beef with counterfeit cigars is this: Tha if you smoke 'em & enjoy them, hey, all the more power to you. BUT, if you're paying a premium price simply because they're supposed to be "Cuban", and they're not the real factory thing, the're probably worth a lot less, and the extra money you're shelling out is going into somebody else's bank account my friend.

MoTheMan


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## BayouDawg (Nov 6, 2003)

My rule of thumb: If I think they might be fake...they are probably fake, it's just too common. My experience with counterfeits is that there is almost always just a little something (or maybe a big something) not quite right about them. I can't count the number of times I've been handed a cigar claimed to be authentic when it was not, often cigar bought on the island.

Trust your intuition, and buy from reputable dealers only.


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## DUFFER (Dec 11, 1997)

If it walks like a..., talks like a...., quacks like a ......

then it must be.....


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## Guest (Mar 12, 2004)

Smoke the real thing my friend! 
For only a few extra dollars you could be puffin' on the real thing from a legit vendor and not even have a worry about if you are smoking banana peels or not.

It may take a bit of work to find a legit, affordable source but they are out there and they are not trying to rip you off.
Happy hunting!!


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## Che (Dec 4, 2003)

Is this a trick question? If that picture is an example, you need to work on becoming familiar with dimensions (your first clue). At a quick glance looks like a number higher than 2 to me, and if your reputable dealer doesn't know what a number 2 looks like, then you've got Ray Charles leading Stevie around.

Where do I collect my prize for the correct answer?


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## IHT (Dec 27, 2003)

che, he said that the photo was of what the bands looked like, not that very cigars he purchased.

all i can say is this:
if you've smoked those padron anni's, and then smoked your monte #2s, and you rate them the same, *then you have fake monte's*.

i haven't found a non-cuban that even comes close to a friggin QUINTERO! and that goes for the Padron Anni's as well. not even close to the same as a Monte #2.


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## ilikecigars (Mar 24, 2003)

my guess is there are more counterfeit cubans in miami florida then anywhere in the world...manhattan being a second runner up...


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## cwaddell_1 (Feb 27, 2004)

*update on my situation*

I recently got a box of Monte #4's from a reputable overseas vendor. WOW, is all I can say. These babies were pretty darn good. I have never smoked a cigar that corrected itself the way this one did. My light was a little uneven but the wrapper ran to correct itself. Also I have never gotten a buzz from smoking a cigar. But, a few puffs into this one I could defiantly feel something. The flavor was great and extremely smooth. Also everything checked out as far as the box, stamps, seals, and bands. Once I was able to put this box beside the box of #2s, it is clear that the 2s are fakes. The tip was the Cuban and Habanos seals. The fake box's seals looked like they were made with copy paper, thicker and nontransparent. The real seals were slightly transparent, just enough to see the squares on the border of the box. This is something I would have never looked for if I hadn't notice the difference by comparing the boxes side by side. I checked some of the pics posted on other threads and noticed the transparency in seals on real boxes. I know this doesn't guarantee the authenticity of the number #4s but it guarantees that the #2's are fakes. One of my neighbors has a lot more experience than I with Cubans and cigars in general. He inspected the box and the cigars. He was also there when I smoke the first one and he said it burned like a real Cuban and the ash was the right color, he also commented on the scent of the tobacco.

Now that I am 99% sure I have a reliable source I find myself grabbing for trees that are passing me by on the slippery slope. I am already trying to decide on my next purchase. I am thinking about the Partagas shorts because they are pretty inexpensive and I would like something a little stronger. Any suggestions would be great.


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