# New Presidential "overhaul" of the embargo



## Tritones (Jun 23, 2010)

Among other things, the President's restructuring of the embargo includes "... travelers will be allowed to import up to $400 worth of goods from Cuba, including $100 in alcohol and tobacco -- even Cuban cigars."

Also there will be a loosening of travel restrictions to Cuba, although tourism will still not be on the table.

Of course, $100.00 may not buy many cigars or much rum ... :biggrin:

Still, it may be a start.


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## Sigaar (Sep 19, 2014)

linkey for the fine print on this?


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## Tritones (Jun 23, 2010)

Sigaar said:


> linkey for the fine print on this?


Obama announces historic overhaul of Cuba embargo - CNN.com

Still all aglow, I think - not much fine print yet.


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## Emperor Zurg (May 6, 2013)

Well this is all fine and good but when will be be able to get cigars imported from asteroid Indiriana?


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## Tritones (Jun 23, 2010)

Emperor Zurg said:


> Well this is all fine and good but when will be be able to get cigars imported from asteroid Indiriana?


Silly Emperor, they don't roll cigars on Indiriana - they just grow some very rare tobaccos there. But you can't get any - the Gutencalabergs own the farms and use all the leaf for their own blends.


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## Tobias Lutz (Feb 18, 2013)

Tritones said:


> Of course, $100.00 may not buy many cigars or much rum ... :biggrin:
> 
> Still, it may be a start.


$100 will buy a good amount of Haitian rum, and in my experience, that's better rum than commie rum


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## tnlawyer (Jul 17, 2013)

As far as domestic politics go, this is a head scratcher. FL is typically in play during national elections, but me thinks this will piss off the Cuban-Americans and may cause FL to become a landslide. Biggest reason the embargo hasn't already been lifted IMO.


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## madmarvcr (Jun 1, 2013)




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## 8ball (Feb 17, 2006)

So if you're allowed to bring $100 in tobacco into the country, would this not then make cuban cigars legal? I thought US citizens are not allowed to partake in any tobacco from Cuba.


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## tnlawyer (Jul 17, 2013)

8ball said:


> So if you're allowed to bring $100 in tobacco into the country, would this not then make cuban cigars legal? I thought US citizens are not allowed to partake in any tobacco from Cuba.


That only applies to people authorized to travel there. Regular non-Cuban folks like me and you are still banned from traveling there.


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## 8ball (Feb 17, 2006)

tnlawyer said:


> That only applies to people authorized to travel there. Regular non-Cuban folks like me and you are still banned from traveling there.


Ah, thanks for clearing that up.


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## tnlawyer (Jul 17, 2013)

So it's really a headline with no substance. How typical.


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## Aithos (Jul 13, 2014)

This is and isn't a significant change. On one hand it provides a legal means of obtaining cuban cigars, meaning that owning or smoking them itself for "authorized individuals" is not illegal. However, it still prohibits resale, so there will be no legal secondary market and it is unclear whether gifting them is allowed. I'm also sure this doesn't mean we will be able to legally buy from vendors in other countries selling them, so it's a very shallow start.

The bright side is it *is* a start and can only be loosened further.


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## tnlawyer (Jul 17, 2013)

$100 worth of alcohol/cigars is a joke. This is muchado about nothing except perception.

And looks like the perception among the US Cuban population isn't a happy one.

Little Havana Cubans Happy For Gross, Angry At Administration « CBS Miami


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## 54 Conqueror (Jun 17, 2011)

tnlawyer said:


> That only applies to people authorized to travel there. Regular non-Cuban folks like me and you are still banned from traveling there.


So your saying if I can travel there I can smoke em here on US soil but if I am not allowed to travel there I can't smoke em here on US soil?

Seems to be a critical piece missing from that


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## tnlawyer (Jul 17, 2013)

54 Conqueror said:


> So your saying if I can travel there I can smoke em here on US soil but if I am not allowed to travel there I can't smoke em here on US soil?
> 
> Seems to be a critical piece missing from that


That's the way it's stated. But seriously...when was the last time a person was arrested for smoking one on US soil?


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## Tritones (Jun 23, 2010)

tnlawyer said:


> That only applies to people authorized to travel there. Regular non-Cuban folks like me and you are still banned from traveling there.


Part of the "overhaul" is supposed to be loosening travel restrictions. Not so far as to allow "tourism" as a reason to visit Cuba, but possibly for business and aid purposes. The article also notes more or less in passing that the President "urged" Congress to repeal the embargo altogether.

Obviously he doesn't care about Florida since he can't run again. But I would think the party would care since they need to put up a contender. The permutations and possibilities grow and spread ...


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## tnlawyer (Jul 17, 2013)

^will be interesting to follow. I still maintain it's just a bunch of hot air and will have zero meaningful impact. We shall see.


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## Emperor Zurg (May 6, 2013)

Tritones said:


> ...But you can't get any - the Gutencalabergs own the farms and use all the leaf for their own blends.


Yes, and I hear the GutenCartel is heavily armed, so much so that they refer to their cigar diameter not by ring gauge but by Calabre.


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## piperdown (Jul 19, 2009)

Two things beyond the original article seem to be significant to me. One a direct phone call between both leaders, something that supposedly hasn't happened since 1959. They've always used intermediaries before. Second is talks of opening up embassies, again, something that hasn't been around since 1959.


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## MDSPHOTO (Sep 10, 2013)

This is all just a ruse by the government to subvert the potential tobacco black market as they prepare the new FDA tobacco legislation. At least this way they will be able collect taxes on those now legal cubans.


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## Tritones (Jun 23, 2010)

tnlawyer said:


> ^will be interesting to follow. I still maintain it's just a bunch of hot air and will have zero meaningful impact. We shall see.


I'm on the fence about this - you surely could be right. On the other hand, there is this:



piperdown said:


> Two things beyond the original article seem to be significant to me. One a direct phone call between both leaders, something that supposedly hasn't happened since 1959. They've always used intermediaries before. Second is talks of opening up embassies, again, something that hasn't been around since 1959.


Could be smoke (non-Cuban, of course) and mirrors, or could be an actual crack in the wall. We'll see!


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## Tritones (Jun 23, 2010)

Emperor Zurg said:


> Yes, and I hear the GutenCartel is heavily armed, so much so that they refer to their cigar diameter not by ring gauge but by Calabre.


Damn straight.


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## z0diac (May 18, 2010)

Tritones said:


> Of course, $100.00 may not buy many cigars or much rum ... :biggrin:
> 
> Still, it may be a start.


Are you kidding? Cigars no, but rum? They were selling 26ers of Havana Club rum for like 6 bucks a bottom at the resort last time I was there.


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## z0diac (May 18, 2010)

54 Conqueror said:


> So your saying if I can travel there I can smoke em here on US soil but if I am not allowed to travel there I can't smoke em here on US soil?
> 
> Seems to be a critical piece missing from that


I believe basically it means US citizens who are authorized to travel there (ie: doctors, press, etc.. who obtain special permission) will be able to bring back some booze and stogies with them.

This is just a stepping stone. Eventually it will be wide open to all Americans and the prices of US cigars will skyrocket once US stores are allowed to stock them.


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## Sigaar (Sep 19, 2014)

z0diac said:


> Eventually it will be wide open to all Americans and the prices of US cigars will skyrocket once US stores are allowed to stock them.


Why would the prices skyrocket? Serious question, not sure I'm following. Maybe at first, as demand exceeds supply, but after that initial spike, I see no reason why prices would skyrocket, unless they add some crazy taxes on CC. After the newness wears off, I'd expect demand to drop and prices along with it. Not much different than guns and ammo. We've had some big spikes due to political reasons increasing demand, but that has settled down...alot. I'm getting several email each week with some of the best ammo prices I've seen in a while.


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## cakeanddottle (Mar 14, 2011)

all I know is that I have a _lot_ of boxes yet to buy for both long and short term, and I am totally happy with the current arrangement. This introduces uncertainty for the future and makes me a little sick to my stomach.


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## Trackmyer (Jun 6, 2014)

There are so many angles to this that do not seem to be that thought out. I feel some of this jibber jabber started because of us getting a American back that was taken prisoner 5 years ago, as well as an CIA operative taken prisoner 20 years ago.

Naturally this didnt happen because Cuba's leader is a swell guy. No we turned over 3 Cuban Intelligence agents that we had.

Why is it we always give more than we get? It gets old. Were bigger, stronger, and yet we always cowtail to these types when we should crush them under our thumb. 

Anyhow, regardless of how and why on the prisoner release, Cuba was and is a bad bad place. With many humanitarian issues going on, and for us to do deals with them is akin to doing deals with the Bad Guys. If you dont think Cuba is that bad, ask any of the Cubans who risked their lives to escape it and reach our shores. I left South Florida a decade ago and the influx of refugees was almost daily.

I too like our setup now. We can smoke the good stuff, without huge taxation, and run the risk of getting caught. Fair tradeoff to me. 

Make it legal, and our fed and state govn. will tax the heck out of them.


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## Herf N Turf (Dec 31, 2008)

Tritones said:


> Silly Emperor, they don't roll cigars on Indiriana - they just grow some very rare tobaccos there. But you can't get any - the Gutencalabergs own the farms and use all the leaf for their own blends.


These are the same Gutenschild and Calaberg families who have been manipulating the world economies for two hundred years. The R+HTF and legendary Gutencala Cala~Cala Reserva Guten Chateau Maduro No 5 (double robusto) was just a microcosm. Funny thing is, not one person who's been lucky enough to smoke one from one of the 500 boxes ever made, has said they were anything short of the best cigar ever. Who thinks candela binder?!?! Go figure :dunno:


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## Sigaar (Sep 19, 2014)

I realize alot of you guys like "things they way they are" with regard to CC's, but sorry, I disagree. I would strongly prefer to NOT have .gov telling me what I can buy. Just because you can get an illegal item cheap from a guy in some alley, that doesn't make it "better" than removing some .gov law that prevents you from legally buying it. I'm a big believer in "Minimum government = maximum freedom". Sure, you might pay some taxes on CC's, just like we currently do for NC's, but know what? I hate taxes as much as the next guy, but I'd rather pay some taxes on a LEGAL item available in a LEGAL FREE MARKET. Let CC's be sold in the free market like anything else. Not sure if we'll get there, but I'll take the free market and good 'ol capitalism over buying illegal shit in the shadows any day of the week.


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## asmartbull (Aug 16, 2009)

Not happening in our life time.
While travel may improve, existing trade agreements will not allow for agricultural imports...not going to happen


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## Jordan23 (May 25, 2012)

z0diac said:


> This is just a stepping stone. Eventually it will be wide open to all Americans and the prices of US cigars will skyrocket once US stores are allowed to stock them.


I agree. I think it'll happen within my lifetime. I see a huge demand and a drop in quality at first. Then it'll level off and the novelty will wear off for most; then prices will stabilize.


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## rangerdavid (Oct 3, 2013)

travel restrictions not lifted ............ yet. Bet they will be. Details will no doubt be worked out in the coming weeks. 


That being said, my Mom was born there. She's 93. As soon as I effin can, we're going!! I want her to touch her home soil once more while she's here.


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## KungFumeta (Aug 7, 2014)

So its finally happening. And there's no stopping it now. It might take a few years or a couple of decades, but the crack has been opened and we're only going forward from here.
This is great for a lot of reasons, but personally I'm with Cake and Dottle. It makes me a little sick to my stomach. Even though I'm Spanish and living in Spain and have access to legal, reasonably priced cubans, that's gonna end once you Americans start purchasing legal cubans in B&Ms and online. Even with the current state of affairs, the US is the biggest market for cuban cigars. When they become legal, demand is going to explode and most everyone in this forum is going to be the worse for it, even us foreigners.
It's not gonna explode because of the guys who are ordering them illegaly off the internet (this also, since being legal you guys will probably place bigger orders more often), but because of the millions of people who will start buying singles in B&Ms out of the prestige factor.

The market is gonna change, and a lot of us are gonna get screwed. I like it fine as it is.

Also I have no problem with the government forbidding me certain things so long as I can ignore them with a tolerable risk factor.

It's a good thing I just recieved 2014's incentive pay. I'll be steadily stocking up the aging tuperdor in preparation from now on.


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## Shemp75 (May 26, 2012)

Cuban cigars being Legal will not in one bit change my smoking and buying habits.


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## z0diac (May 18, 2010)

Sigaar said:


> Why would the prices skyrocket? Serious question, not sure I'm following. Maybe at first, as demand exceeds supply, but after that initial spike, I see no reason why prices would skyrocket, unless they add some crazy taxes on CC. *After the newness wears off, I'd expect demand to drop and prices along with it.*


???!? There will be a CONTINUED demand for them. Every single cigar store in the US will now be selling Cubans. MANY more people will be be continually BUYING Cubans. There will be a CONTINUED increase in demand.



> *Not much different than guns and ammo*. We've had some big spikes due to political reasons increasing demand, but that has settled down...alot. I'm getting several email each week with some of the best ammo prices I've seen in a while.


TOTALLY different than guns and ammo. The guns and ammo craze started after the school shooting, and people were all worried about new laws that were going to take away all their guns and ammo. Now that we've realized that isn't going to happen, people are stockpiling and hoarding ammo a lot less because they know they'll be able to get it on the shelf in the future. Are you really tellin me that you haven't seen ammo prices go up since everyone started buying the stuff like mad?

You open up a new marking of over 300M people RIGHT NEXT DOOR to the seller, and demand is really going to increase - and STAY increased. That always drives prices up. And if it doesn't drive prices up, it will mean Cubans will be hard to find when you want them. OR... they'll massively increase production resulting in poorer quality product.


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## asmartbull (Aug 16, 2009)

Without a major overhaul of their government, there is no incentive to change as anything fir the US. Truth be told, this will hurt our relationship with Venezuela, which is already bad.
you al add I have to think that Congress has to appropriate the dollars and the Reps need FL......Another thing to remember is that any inceease in revenue will only help their Gov....
travel, yes.....major trade, no......
This is yet another example of our President being a terrible negotiator.


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## lukesparksoff (Apr 21, 2010)

Sigaar said:


> I realize alot of you guys like "things they way they are" with regard to CC's, but sorry, I disagree. I would strongly prefer to NOT have .gov telling me what I can buy. Just because you can get an illegal item cheap from a guy in some alley, that doesn't make it "better" than removing some .gov law that prevents you from legally buying it. I'm a big believer in "Minimum government = maximum freedom". Sure, you might pay some taxes on CC's, just like we currently do for NC's, but know what? I hate taxes as much as the next guy, but I'd rather pay some taxes on a LEGAL item available in a LEGAL FREE MARKET. Let CC's be sold in the free market like anything else. Not sure if we'll get there, but I'll take the free market and good 'ol capitalism over buying illegal shit in the shadows any day of the week.


Every time I buy a box, it feels like I have sinned. It would be nice and honorable to be legal


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## TonyBrooklyn (Jan 28, 2010)

Tritones said:


> Among other things, the President's restructuring of the embargo includes "... travelers will be allowed to import up to $400 worth of goods from Cuba, including $100 in alcohol and tobacco -- even Cuban cigars."
> 
> Also there will be a loosening of travel restrictions to Cuba, although tourism will still not be on the table.
> 
> ...


For people who live in southern Fla a rocks throw away. Or people traveling anywhere in the Caribbean. This can be a worthy exercise in the world of travel.
As far as the amounts involved. People will be smuggling back as much as they can hide in their luggage. Forget about those that will go there by boat.


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## Aithos (Jul 13, 2014)

Tritones said:


> Part of the "overhaul" is supposed to be loosening travel restrictions. Not so far as to allow "tourism" as a reason to visit Cuba, but possibly for business and aid purposes. The article also notes more or less in passing that the President "urged" Congress to repeal the embargo altogether.
> 
> Obviously he doesn't care about Florida since he can't run again. But I would think the party would care since they need to put up a contender. The permutations and possibilities grow and spread ...


I think they realize they are screwed next election anyway, unless something really drastic happens we're going to continue going back and forth between Republican and Democrat every other election because the people keep voting on idiots and then being angry when they do stupid things. The same applies for how congress has gone the past several elections as well. The problem is that voters and politicians have gotten more and more partisan over the years and that's a bad trend for accomplishing things, particularly if you want to do the right thing. The way the system works now if the voters get partisan it ties your hands and forces you to vote strictly party or risk losing re-election. It's a broken system.


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## TonyBrooklyn (Jan 28, 2010)

asmartbull said:


> Without a major overhaul of their government, there is no incentive to change as anything fir the US. Truth be told, this will hurt our relationship with Venezuela, which is already bad.
> you all add I have to think that Congress has to appropriate the dollars and the Reps need FL......Another thing to remember is that any increase in revenue will only help their Gov....
> travel, yes.....major trade, no......
> This is yet another example of our President being a terrible negotiator.


You are very kind in your choice of words Bullman. Terrible negotiator is an under statement, as far as Venezuela screw that Bastage IMHO.


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## Aithos (Jul 13, 2014)

KungFumeta said:


> So its finally happening. And there's no stopping it now. It might take a few years or a couple of decades, but the crack has been opened and we're only going forward from here.
> This is great for a lot of reasons, but personally I'm with Cake and Dottle. It makes me a little sick to my stomach. Even though I'm Spanish and living in Spain and have access to legal, reasonably priced cubans, that's gonna end once you Americans start purchasing legal cubans in B&Ms and online. Even with the current state of affairs, the US is the biggest market for cuban cigars. When they become legal, demand is going to explode and most everyone in this forum is going to be the worse for it, even us foreigners.
> It's not gonna explode because of the guys who are ordering them illegaly off the internet (this also, since being legal you guys will probably place bigger orders more often), but because of the millions of people who will start buying singles in B&Ms out of the prestige factor.
> 
> ...


I disagree with this idea, the simple fact is that cigar smoking is a very small market hobby. Having Cuban cigars available to the general public will cause a spike in interest and then once the novelty has worn off the market will settle and Cuban cigars won't be any more expensive than they are now (or very little different). Why? For one because they aren't any better than NC cigars from a quality perspective, they are just different. Secondly, because there is only so much you can charge for a cigar and expect people to actually buy it, if a price is too high then people will stop buying. That's the way a supply and demand market works, if you have no demand then costs have to come down or supply shrinks. If every cigar is $10 a stick there are a lot of people who just won't buy.

edit: I think it's pretty silly to say 300 million people will mean a huge increased demand. Cigar smokers are a very small portion of the total buying population even if you ignore the fact that close to half that population can't even smoke them legally. Then take out half the cigar smoking population who already buy them through various means, take out another quarter who don't care about Cubans one way or another and you're left with a fraction of the cigar smoking population. Now you have to also compete with the best NC offerings and the illusion and exclusivity will be gone so the cigars will have to stand on their own merit. Again, after an initial spike of interest I think you see them for the same prices you do now.


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## Perfecto Dave (Nov 24, 2009)

"May" be good for some of the people on the island with the extra cash being able to be sent. Definitely more bad than good for anyone that enjoys hand rolled tobacco coming south to north.
Big O's approach to foreign policy is some of the worst seen in a half century. This "quietly" brokered move will do nothing for his already in the toilet legacy. I find it ironic to be not allowed to mix state and church but one of the largest religious leaders in the world can help broker and influence the "States" on how to run their political system. 
Once this is in full swing all the top shelf rollers will be leaving the island for greener wallets and a repeat of history will follow.
With a huge influx of fakes on the market here in the states and the total crappy quality coming off the island it's gonna make your head spin and it'll be hard to tell the difference between the two.
JMO............


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## magoo6541 (Mar 9, 2014)

TonyBrooklyn said:


> You are very kind in your choice of words Bullman. Terrible negotiator is an under statement, as far as Venezuela screw that Bastage IMHO.


Ha ha. I was thinking "too kind" and then I saw your response. You put it well.

As far as trade, price and quality:

The US is (from what I understand) the largest market for cigars. I feel that some underestimate what would happen if the flood gates of trade were opened. The supply would drop like a rock. It would mostly be from the nonsmokers or from the occasional smoker who has never tasted the forbidden fruit. If you hang out on the internet for more than a couple seconds or hang out in a decent B&M and keep a watchful eye, cubans are already readily available but, for the most part, not openly discussed. So those who have a great interest in the hobby are already in the game so to speak. For everyone else though, it would be come a new novelty. Most would buy one or two for the "prestige" of having a real cuban but the occasional smoker might stock up a desktop humidor. Either way, supply would drop and I don't see how supply could keep up unless new factories were opened or old ones reestablished.

We had a talk a while back about trademarks (In my opinion the bigger issue when it comes to cigars) and I can't remember the consensus of the members here. Each cuban brand has a US trademarked brand already in production. IE: The Dominican Montecristo has a US trademark owned by Imperial Tobacco and therefore, the Cuban Montecristo cannot sell in the US because of trademark infringement. Either Imperial Tobacco or Habanos SA would have to change name and logo and I don't see either side budging on an issue that big. Every single Cuban brand has a US trademarked brand. The only 2 that are truly owned by Cuba in my mind would be Cohiba and Trinidad since the Cuban government essentially established those brands. Every other brand was seized by the government when the state took over the entire industry.

I could be wrong but I don't see habanos cigars being legally sold in the US for a very long time, if at all.


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## TonyBrooklyn (Jan 28, 2010)

magoo6541 said:


> Ha ha. I was thinking "too kind" and then I saw your response. You put it well.
> 
> As far as trade, price and quality:
> 
> ...


I think our thoughts are the same as 99% of all Americans. That being said i agree with you. If the embargo lifted tomorrow it would take a decade to get things rolling.
Lawsuits getting production up etc etc etc.


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## ELLASU (Jun 9, 2014)

I would love to be able to try one to see what the difference is. If I ever figure out how you guys get them here, I am doing it. With that said, there are sticks I truly love that do not come from the island and I do not see the others being so much better that I abandon the ones I have.


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## Aithos (Jul 13, 2014)

I agree the larger issue is the trademark one, but I think that's pretty easy to resolve honestly. You just set a prescedent that they have to distinguish themselves by country of origin - Cohiba NA, Cohiba CU and then title cigars appropriately, Habana for Cuba and something else for USA. Alternatively you could have the sizes be different, numbers for Cuba and words for USA or something. 

I also think you're underestimating how the dynamic would change after the initial spike of interest wore off. A big part of the interest in Cubans in the first place is the mystique and the forbidden aspect. I've read over and over that Cubans aren't better cigars, just different. Once you strip away the tantalizing forbidden fruit aspect suddenly you just have a pretty small addition of lineups to the already overwhelming lineup of premium cigars. People aren't suddenly going to go from smoking Padron and Davidoff to exclusively Cubans. Initially? Sure, supply is going to pale compared to demand.

The other thing no one has mentioned is that there won't be any more customs issues. All those cigars confiscated now will make it to market without issue. I really don't think it would make much of a difference long term and might even have a positive effect on the Cuban lines of cigars.


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## madmarvcr (Jun 1, 2013)

The problem is the disagreement between these 2 companies, Imperial Tobacco and General Cigar

First lets look at Imperial Tobacco
Imperial Tobacco owns 50% of Habanos SA and these NC brands
H. Upmann 
Juan Lopez 
Montecristo 
Romeo y Julieta 
Saint Luis Rey 
Trinidad

if the embargo ended today, these CC brands above would be released in the US through Altadis, USA immediately
Because Imperial owns 50% of Habanos SA, there would be no fight over trademarks or copyrights of these brands

I believe the long term goal of Imperial is to have Altadis USA be the Official Distributor in the USA for Habanos SA
The infrastructure is already in place.

The big problem is General Cigar, they have the USA rights to these brands
Bolivar
Cohiba 
Hoyo De Monterrey 
La Gloria Cubana
Partagas 
Punch
Rafael Gonzales
Ramon Allones 


The biggies are Bolivar, Cohiba, and Partagas

As long as Imperial and General can not come to an agreement, the embargo most likely will not be lifted for cigars.

Lets say that Imperial and General do reach an agreement on trademarks and distribution, they would only have to lobby 10-15 key senators or congressmen and boom, embaro lifted.


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## Sigaar (Sep 19, 2014)

z0diac said:


> ???!? There will be a CONTINUED demand for them. Every single cigar store in the US will now be selling Cubans. MANY more people will be be continually BUYING Cubans. There will be a CONTINUED increase in demand.
> 
> TOTALLY different than guns and ammo. The guns and ammo craze started after the school shooting, and people were all worried about new laws that were going to take away all their guns and ammo. Now that we've realized that isn't going to happen, people are stockpiling and hoarding ammo a lot less because they know they'll be able to get it on the shelf in the future. Are you really tellin me that you haven't seen ammo prices go up since everyone started buying the stuff like mad?
> 
> You open up a new marking of over 300M people RIGHT NEXT DOOR to the seller, and demand is really going to increase - and STAY increased. That always drives prices up. And if it doesn't drive prices up, it will mean Cubans will be hard to find when you want them. OR... they'll massively increase production resulting in poorer quality product.


We're going to have to agree to disagree. I don't believe there will be a CONTINUED, long term, huge demand. Initially, sure. And even so, the manufacturers will increase production. That may not cover all the initial demand, but it will help. But the average Joe isn't going to be buying Cuban cigars by the truckload. Once the occasional cigar smoker has a handful of sticks, or even a box, they'll be good. And I believe in the FREE market. As another poster said, if the price goes up too much, demand will slacken, and prices will come down. That's how it's supposed to work, and that's a good thing. And know what else? I'd rather the price go up due to the free market and get the .gov out of it, rather than have the prices lower due to it being a black market item.

As for ammo, the prices _DID_ go up...and they've started to come down pretty nicely. Why? Because the SUPPLY for most calibers looks to be exceeding DEMAND, with the possible exception of 22LR, though even that seems to be much more available than it was.


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## madmarvcr (Jun 1, 2013)

Aithos said:


> ...
> The other thing no one has mentioned is that there won't be any more customs issues. All those cigars confiscated now will make it to market without issue.


If the embargo is lifted, there will still be customs issues, instead of confiscating your cigars, Customs will slap a big Duty and Tax bill on your international shipment if contents not properly declared or valued.
And with that, we still will not be able to discuss international vendors of CC's on Puff, if they ship with out declaring real contents and real value.
What we will get to discuss, which is appalling, is vendors like Famous or CI, with their specials and blowouts on their cuban offerings.


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## deke (Aug 19, 2013)

madmarvcr said:


> If the embargo is lifted, there will still be customs issues, instead of confiscating your cigars, Customs will slap a big Duty and Tax bill on your international shipment if contents not properly declared or valued.
> And with that, we still will not be able to discuss international vendors of CC's on Puff, if they ship with out declaring real contents and real value.
> What we will get to discuss, which is appalling, is vendors like Famous or CI, with their specials and blowouts on their cuban offerings.


I can hardly wait to see the Gurkha Cuban offers -- 40 different cigars at $50 MSRP, on sale for $8


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## TonyBrooklyn (Jan 28, 2010)

Aithos said:


> I agree the larger issue is the trademark one, but I think that's pretty easy to resolve honestly. You just set a prescedent that they have to distinguish themselves by country of origin - Cohiba NA, Cohiba CU and then title cigars appropriately, Habana for Cuba and something else for USA. Alternatively you could have the sizes be different, numbers for Cuba and words for USA or something.
> 
> I also think you're underestimating how the dynamic would change after the initial spike of interest wore off. A big part of the interest in Cubans in the first place is the mystique and the forbidden aspect. I've read over and over that Cubans aren't better cigars, just different. Once you strip away the tantalizing forbidden fruit aspect suddenly you just have a pretty small addition of lineups to the already overwhelming lineup of premium cigars. People aren't suddenly going to go from smoking Padron and Davidoff to exclusively Cubans. Initially? Sure, supply is going to pale compared to demand.
> 
> The other thing no one has mentioned is that there won't be any more customs issues. All those cigars confiscated now will make it to market without issue. I really don't think it would make much of a difference long term and might even have a positive effect on the Cuban lines of cigars.


Nothing could be further from the truth. The forbidden fruit factor does not hold water. In places all over the world where any and all cigars can be purchased legally. Cuban are always the cigar of choice period. In fact the last time i traveled Europe about 5 years back. I was in Spain a local walked right up to me and said in his best english. "An American with a palate is a rare sight" We sat had coffee smoked cigars i still keep in touch with the gentleman from Madrid.


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## Sigaar (Sep 19, 2014)

^^Ralfy (Scotch reviewer from Scotland on YouTube) smokes Padron's.


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## TonyBrooklyn (Jan 28, 2010)

100 dollars worth of SEEGARS isn't really much but. For instance if i bring back 100 Custom Rolls and declare them as Peso cigars:heh: that would be my $100.:smoke2: I mean there is no price sheet and receipts are forged all the time. My friends from Canada do it so it should work here. That being said the Custom rolls in Cuba my Canadian friends have informed me are drying up. It would appear Habanos is tired of the competition. Or maybe they are gearing up for all the new tourists!:dance:


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## Magnificent_Bastard (Feb 29, 2012)

deke said:


> I can hardly wait to see the Gurkha Cuban offers -- 40 different cigars at $50 MSRP, on sale for $8


:biglaugh:


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## OnePyroTec (Dec 11, 1997)

TonyBrooklyn said:


> Nothing could be further from the truth. The forbidden fruit factor does not hold water. In places all over the world where any and all cigars can be purchased legally. Cuban are always the cigar of choice period. In fact the last time i traveled Europe about 5 years back. I was in Spain a local walked right up to me and said in his best english. "An American with a palate is a rare sight" We sat had coffee smoked cigars i still keep in touch with the gentleman from Madrid.


For the most part, agreed. When I was in the cigar selling game, I did send quite a bit to the Netherlands as special requests from customers for Illja when he was alive. There are a few out there who just wanted that something different.

I take a bit of an obscure look at the embargo and changes. Castro has been laughing at the embargo since it has been implemented. EVERY other country in the world can trade and travel there. Making a small change with the rules to the embargo will not change a thing for the people who live there. And everyone is assuming that Habanos S.A. will be eager to spend millions in court to fight trademark battles & set up shop here...for what???...they already had a long time customer base worldwide who would fight to keep the cigars out of our country just as hard so they wouldn't be shortened of supply.

As of today, 1 Swiss Franc equals 1.01 US Dollar. Shipping is less than I would spend in fuel just to drive to a cigar store. YMMV


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## KcJason1 (Oct 20, 2010)

Sigaar said:


> I realize alot of you guys like "things they way they are" with regard to CC's, but sorry, I disagree. I would strongly prefer to NOT have .gov telling me what I can buy. Just because you can get an illegal item cheap from a guy in some alley, that doesn't make it "better" than removing some .gov law that prevents you from legally buying it. I'm a big believer in "Minimum government = maximum freedom". Sure, you might pay some taxes on CC's, just like we currently do for NC's, but know what? I hate taxes as much as the next guy, but I'd rather pay some taxes on a LEGAL item available in a LEGAL FREE MARKET. Let CC's be sold in the free market like anything else. Not sure if we'll get there, but I'll take the free market and good 'ol capitalism over buying illegal shit in the shadows any day of the week.


I would never buy some CC's from a guy in the alley, too many fakes... If they legalize CC's they will become crap for 5+ years... As Cuba tries to keep up with demad. I say keep the embargo the way it is.
As for Taxes... Thats whats nice about CC's.. Their cheap... I can get a Knock your socks off CC for the price of a dog rocket NC..


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## bpegler (Mar 30, 2006)

I've been through one cigar boom. It destroyed the quality of Havanas for about 2-3 years.

I would hate to live through another.

Lifting the embargo would result in overproduction for several years. We would all get to see tent pegs again.

Yuck.

BTW, Cuban tobacco is still the best in the world, but they struggle with quality control.


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## tnlawyer (Jul 17, 2013)

bpegler said:


> I've been through one cigar boom. It destroyed the quality of Havanas for about 2-3 years.
> 
> I would hate to live through another.
> 
> ...


I mentioned this in another thread and was told it was a storing problem or that the cigars just hadn't been aged enough. I say BS. CC are good/great but they suffer from more QC issues than the Fuentes and Padrons of the world.


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## bpegler (Mar 30, 2006)

tnlawyer said:


> I mentioned this in another thread and was told it was a storing problem or that the cigars just hadn't been aged enough. I say BS. CC are good/great but they suffer from more QC issues than the Fuentes and Padrons of the world.


I would pay absolutely stupid money for Havanas rolled with the care of Padrons. That's why I smoke so many custom rolls these days.

That being said, lower RH and time help Havanas that are a bit tightly rolled.


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## tnlawyer (Jul 17, 2013)

bpegler said:


> I would pay absolutely stupid money for Havanas rolled with the care of Padrons.


That just gave me a boner.


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## Tritones (Jun 23, 2010)

bpegler said:


> I would pay absolutely stupid money for Havanas rolled with the care of Padrons. That's why I smoke so many custom rolls these days.
> 
> That being said, lower RH and time help Havanas that are a bit tightly rolled.


As the guy who never met a thread he couldn't hijack ... wait - if you hijack your own thread is it really hijacking? Anyway - it does seem like CCs err on the tightly-rolled side more often than the other way. I'm not nearly experienced enough for this to really be meaningful, but I've never had a soda-straw Habano. I have had my fair share of head-collapsers, though ...


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