# Beetle threat probability?



## jcazz (Apr 2, 2011)

I've seen more threads on here about the precautions Puffers take to avoid beetles, but I haven't see any discussion about how many have had an infestation?

I ask because i've never taken any special precautions, haven't frozen sticks, and knock on wood, I've never had an issue.

I understand freezing is relatively easy to do, but is it really necessary?

Also, can beetles Get through cello? Does leaving sticks in the cello keep (or help keep) an infestation contained?

Just wanted to hear from others if the precautions are really necessary, or more for peace of mind?


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## Eddie A. (Apr 7, 2011)

Subscribed. I'd be interested to here the replies to this question


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## lukesparksoff (Apr 21, 2010)

They will eat through cello,Beatles are rear but when they hit they will wipe you out, why take a chance.


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## eNthusiast (Dec 4, 2009)

been smoking almost 2 years now and haven't had to deal with beetles.

you have to understand the conditions in which the beetles need to hatch. if your humidor conditions are kept under those which the beetle larvae need to hatch you should be clear. i'm too lazy to look up those conditions but as a general rule i'll say you should be under 74 degrees RH and temp F.

you also have to keep in mind those conditions during transit.


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## jcazz (Apr 2, 2011)

lukesparksoff said:


> They will eat through cello,Beatles are rear but when they hit they will wipe you out, why take a chance.


I didn't know they could get through cello - that's a little more worrisome. Just curious what the odds of an outbreak really are?

I understand that freezing is easy insurance - I am thinking about doing it going forward too since it is so easy (just time consuming). I'm more curious if it's strictly necessary?

Are my odds 1 in 10 of an outbreak if I don't freeze or more like 1 in 100 or 1 in 1000 (or even higher)? I'm curious only because i've never really worried before joining here, but I see a lot of threads about freezing. In 14 some odd years of smoking, I've not had an issue, but I don't know if that's normal or if i've just been really lucky. 

Jacob


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## fivespdcat (Nov 16, 2010)

I haven't made too many precautions regarding beetles. Most of my sticks are bough in boxes, so if my understanding is correct, they don't eat through cedar? So I'm hoping my risk is limited to individual boxes??? On the other side, my temps in the basement are around 62F all year around so I'm sure that helps a ton. It will definitely be interesting to see how many have actually had a problem.


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## lukesparksoff (Apr 21, 2010)

If you have under 50 sticks ,roll the dice ,but with me, over 3000 sticks it would crush me ,2 years ago they hit my CC stash and I almost cried,I'm still hurting over it.


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## lukesparksoff (Apr 21, 2010)

Trust me they do eat through cello,i know first hand


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## jcazz (Apr 2, 2011)

lukesparksoff said:


> If you have under 50 sticks ,roll the dice ,but with me, over 3000 sticks it would crush me ,2 years ago they hit my CC stash and I almost cried,I'm still hurting over it.


OUCH!! I can't imagine.

I don't have any CCs, and only about ~200 sticks in total; nothing that is so rare or special I couldn't replace fairly easily.


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## jimbo1 (Aug 18, 2010)

had a small problem that I caught early a few months ago in one cigar I got, after that I freeze everything that comes through my front door, temps can get a little high here in Fl., even though I keep my stash in a temp controlled environment, what if I have a power outage? and temps start getting high, not worth it, IMHO, just freeze em, for me its worth the piece of mind.....


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## Rock31 (Sep 30, 2010)

eNthusiast said:


> been smoking almost 2 years now and haven't had to deal with beetles.
> 
> you have to understand the conditions in which the beetles need to hatch. if your humidor conditions are kept under those which the beetle larvae need to hatch you should be clear. i'm too lazy to look up those conditions but as a general rule i'll say you should be under 74 degrees RH and temp F.
> 
> you also have to keep in mind those conditions during transit.


I am pretty sure larvae can hatch under optimal conditions as well, it will just take longer.

I have had no problems but I still freeze everything, it's a few days "work" but it's a no brainer to just do it.


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## jcazz (Apr 2, 2011)

Good information everyone - still would like to hear from people who have had an outbreak of beetles. I would love to try to get a feeling for the chance of beetles for the average smoker.

Thanks!
Jacob


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## quincy627 (Jul 2, 2010)

The only problem I have had with beetles happened last Summer. I happened twice during very hot weather months, both orders from Cbid. Both beetles were found on the inside lid of my humidor. Froze all sticks, cleaned out the humi and did not have any other issues. I mentioned the sticks came from Cbid. I have had many other orders from here that have been perfectly fine. I think it was more likely the hot weather that the larva thrived on and not any indicator of the product I received.


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## NoShhhSherlock (Mar 30, 2011)

I have read some good info from allot of people of what beetles are and what damage they can cause as well as how to prevent them. But Where do they come from? Are they in the cigars themselves?


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## kumanchu (Mar 16, 2011)

according to the other big thread, larvae can hatch in 4 months at "optimal" cigar storing conditions.


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## jcazz (Apr 2, 2011)

Sherlockholms said:


> I have read some good info from allot of people of what beetles are and what damage they can cause as well as how to prevent them. But Where do they come from? Are they in the cigars themselves?


Yep - they lay eggs on the growing leaves and they get rolled into the cigars. The eggs are tiny & get rolled into the finished cigar.

If the conditions are right they can hatch & the larva go wild & turn your smokes into dust & beetle-poop.

I did find this on wiki:

The complete life cycle takes 26 days at 37 °C (98.6 °F) and 120 days at 20 °C (68 °F). L. serricorne cannot tolerate the cold; adults die within 6 days at 4 °C (39.2 °F), and eggs survive 5 days at 0-5 °C.


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## lukesparksoff (Apr 21, 2010)

Most Brands ,all CC ,and good vender's already flash freeze for you,but every once in a while a little bugger gets through,


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## JGD (Mar 2, 2009)

I received a large order last month and noticed right away that a Siglo VI had a beetle hole on the head of the cigar. I froze all of those cigars and I am now in the process of freezing the rest of my cigars. I suggest that people start freezing sooner than later because it is a pain in the ass to freeze all of your cigars when you have 1000+. For instance, I just took about a third of my smokes out of the fridge today and put another third in. Come Friday I will hopefully put the last of portion of my cigars in there.


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## xobrian (Mar 29, 2011)

lukesparksoff said:


> Most Brands ,all CC ,and good vender's already flash freeze for you,but every once in a while a little bugger gets through,


Wow, looks like they had some fun in that box.


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## djangos (Mar 14, 2011)

OUCH!! Hopefully they did not belong to someone here.....:yuck:



lukesparksoff said:


> Most Brands ,all CC ,and good vender's already flash freeze for you,but every once in a while a little bugger gets through,


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## cedjunior (Apr 7, 2007)

I do inspections pretty regularly. I've only ever found a dead beetle, it was in a 5 year old box of Padron 4000's. No sign of any other foul play on those cigars since then.


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## NoShhhSherlock (Mar 30, 2011)

jcazz said:


> Yep - they lay eggs on the growing leaves and they get rolled into the cigars. The eggs are tiny & get rolled into the finished cigar.
> 
> If the conditions are right they can hatch & the larva go wild & turn your smokes into dust & beetle-poop.
> 
> ...


Thanks for clearing that up. :hat:


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## Mr. Slick (Aug 17, 2010)

It gets hot down here. It's hard to keep the temp at exactly 70. I freeze all shipped orders and B&M purchases.


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## asmartbull (Aug 16, 2009)

My buddy went to wally world and got 
a small portable ac unit and put it in a walk in closet.
It comes on for an hr or 2 mid day.
He never noticed an increase in his electric bill


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## asmartbull (Aug 16, 2009)

http://www.portableairshop.com/Resi...s&src=google&gclid=CNKxipaxp6gCFYjsKgodaWgsIw

just an example of ac units


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## 92hatchattack (May 30, 2009)

^^^ Those would be sweet is a closet. I wish they could be had for under $200 though.

So do you guys buying Padron 26's, and opus x's really go and throw them in the freezer?


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## asmartbull (Aug 16, 2009)

92hatchattack said:


> ^^^ Those would be sweet is a closet. I wish they could be had for under $200 though.
> 
> So do you guys buying Padron 26's, and opus x's really go and throw them in the freezer?


EVERY ONE


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## Blue_2 (Jan 25, 2011)

I was hit recently on a B&M purchase, a CAO Soprano. 

I had left it for a few weeks in a small tupperdor with a few other recently purchased sticks. When I went to transfer them to the Coolidor, a bunch of dust came pouring out the foot! I pulled the red "Sopranos" band off and saw the hole, right through the back of the ring. I count myself lucky that I caught it when I did, and that they were isolated to begin with. Anything going in my coolidor will be personally freeze treated.


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## 92hatchattack (May 30, 2009)

Wow, i guess i will start freezing new shipments and hope my stock is ok.

So freezing doesnt effect the taste of these high end cigars?


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## smelvis (Sep 7, 2009)

asmartbull said:


> EVERY ONE


Ditto or times two or me as well, oh yeah I do the same


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## Mr. Slick (Aug 17, 2010)

asmartbull said:


> EVERY ONE


+1 freeze everything


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## Blue_2 (Jan 25, 2011)

Gordon Mott even got hit, twice.


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## lukesparksoff (Apr 21, 2010)

asmartbull said:


> EVERY ONE


+1 Better safe than sorry


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## NoShhhSherlock (Mar 30, 2011)

lukesparksoff said:


> +1 Better safe than sorry


You are correct sir.


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## Tritones (Jun 23, 2010)

Rock31 said:


> I am pretty sure larvae can hatch under optimal conditions as well, it will just take longer.
> 
> I have had no problems but I still freeze everything, it's a few days "work" but it's a no brainer to just do it.


Yes - larvae can, will, and do hatch at 65/65 - they just develop a little more slowly. If you have viable eggs in your cigars, they _will_ eventually hatch when kept in the recommended storage conditions. They will hatch faster at higher temps, but 65 degrees _will not_ prevent hatching.

Fortunately, it is probably fairly rare for viable eggs to make it into your humidor, considering the lengths most manufacturers go to in trying to destroy all stages of the beetle's progress.

Someone asked about them eating through cedar. Only the larvae actually feed. Once they become adults, they stop feeding. Tobacco is not the only thing that the larvae will eat - they also eat some grains and even some cellulose products. However, they probably do not eat cedar. Don't mop your brow, however - adult beetles burrow and bore, and they have been known to drill through cedar.

If you aren't going to smoke them within a few days, freeze them. Not to mention any names, but there's this guy from Brooklyn who hangs around here, and claims to have smoked his cigars right out of the deep freeze. Did I remember that right, Tony? :biggrin:


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## hawaiian (Jan 24, 2011)

If you're so worried about cigars changing taste or drying out you can always freeze few stick to test. Let them rest for few weeks in the humi afterwards then you can do a comparison with non frozen ones.
I couldn't notice any difference so all my cigars go into the freezer before seeing my humi. My ambinet temp goes over 80 at times but no worries about beetles since I know I killed them all.


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## Rock31 (Sep 30, 2010)

Even if the probability is 1 in a million, why not freeze anyway? It's quick and you can smoke something else while freezing your new shipment.

@Mike yes our good friend from Brooklyn loves Cigaricles.


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## Tritones (Jun 23, 2010)

Rock31 said:


> Even if the probability is 1 in a million, why not freeze anyway? It's quick and you can smoke something else while freezing your new shipment.
> 
> @Mike yes our good friend from Brooklyn loves Cigaricles.


Yep - I'm in the "freeze 'em all" camp. On Tony's advice, I quit the day in the fridge before and after freezing, and have noticed no problems. So, out of the shipping box, into the freezer for three days, then into the coolidor (or the humi if their life expectancy is short).


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## 92hatchattack (May 30, 2009)

So, how long of a time frame without freezing would you consider your cigars to be safe? Is it safe to say that if i have had cigars for over a year with no problems that they are not going to hatch beetles in the future?


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## zenbamboo (Aug 30, 2010)

92hatchattack said:


> So, how long of a time frame without freezing would you consider your cigars to be safe? Is it safe to say that if i have had cigars for over a year with no problems that they are not going to hatch beetles in the future?


I would like to tell you yes, but when you consider that the ones that do hatch may have survived years from the fields, to the curing barns, to the fermenting warehouse, through rolling and more aging, then I would say no. Why chance it? I am at the point where I no longer enjoy cigars ROTT or fresh from a B&M. So whenever I get anything new, it goes straight into the freezer for a few days and then stuffed in a coolidor for a few months at least. The only exception I have made to that rule was when my wife went to a B&M for Valentines Day and picked me up two Davidoff Especial Seleccíon. I smoked one that night, but the other went in the freezer for a few days and is being saved for next year.


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## Tritones (Jun 23, 2010)

92hatchattack said:


> So, how long of a time frame without freezing would you consider your cigars to be safe? Is it safe to say that if i have had cigars for over a year with no problems that they are not going to hatch beetles in the future?





zenbamboo said:


> I would like to tell you yes, but when you consider that the ones that do hatch may have survived years from the fields, to the curing barns, to the fermenting warehouse, through rolling and more aging, then I would say no. Why chance it? I am at the point where I no longer enjoy cigars ROTT or fresh from a B&M. So whenever I get anything new, it goes straight into the freezer for a few days and then stuffed in a coolidor for a few months at least. The only exception I have made to that rule was when my wife went to a B&M for Valentines Day and picked me up two Davidoff Especial Seleccíon. I smoked one that night, but the other went in the freezer for a few days and is being saved for next year.


The eggs can survive several years at least before hatching, but there would have to be a reason they didn't hatch - like unsuitable conditions. In a well-maintained humidor, they almost certainly would hatch in the time frame you mentioned. That's the fairly entomologically correct response. Remember, the whole time the tobacco is on the farm, growing, aging, etc., there is the chance of new eggs being laid in it. Same at the factory and in the aging process - because of all the new tobacco shipments in and out. So, the eggs may be fresh by the time the cigar gets to you - just ready to hatch. After a year with no hatch - probably OK. Don't know if I would risk my cigar collection, though.


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## scrunchie (Jul 24, 2008)

Since only the larvae eat cigars, are sticks only at risk from already present eggs or will the newly formed adults lay more eggs that will then hatch into more larvae that will eat more sticks? Was the damage to that box of Padrons all from already-present eggs?


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## jimbo1 (Aug 18, 2010)

So once you freeze then your good to go? Or can you still have an outbreak after freezing if you keep the cigars too warm? Either way I still freeze all that I get, just curious if freezing would equal zero possibility of beetles in the future. Also I don't think freezing had any effect on the taste, as long as you freeze em right.


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## TonyBrooklyn (Jan 28, 2010)

jcazz said:


> I've seen more threads on here about the precautions Puffers take to avoid beetles, but I haven't see any discussion about how many have had an infestation?
> 
> I ask because i've never taken any special precautions, haven't frozen sticks, and knock on wood, I've never had an issue.
> 
> ...


I got away for twenty years or so without freezing. Then i got hit bad that was 10 or so years ago. I freeze everything now no problems since then. :lever:


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## Tritones (Jun 23, 2010)

scrunchie said:


> Since only the larvae eat cigars, are sticks only at risk from already present eggs or will the _*newly formed adults lay more eggs that will then hatch into more larvae that will eat more sticks*_? Was the damage to that box of Padrons all from already-present eggs?


Yes - they will breed and multiply. No way of knowing about the Padrons just from the picture, but it sure looks like there must have been a lot of the little suckers, so it may reflect multiple generations. It might only be from one original batch of eggs, though - females lay about 200 eggs in their short little lives, so one little lady could leave behind the makings of a lot of devastation.

I had a little chat with a tobacco beetle once - here's a little bit of our conversation, in case you're interested:

http://www.cigarforums.net/forums/vb/general-cigar-discussion/274735-interview-cigar-beetle.html


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## Tritones (Jun 23, 2010)

jimbo1 said:


> So once you freeze then your good to go? Or can you still have an outbreak after freezing if you keep the cigars too warm? Either way I still freeze all that I get, just curious if freezing would equal zero possibility of beetles in the future. Also I don't think freezing had any effect on the taste, as long as you freeze em right.


See info below - as long as you get your cigars cold enough, for long enough, and then keep them away from tobacco fields and new, unfrozen sticks (so no new bugs find them), you should be safe.

Research provided for growers and manufacturers says that 100% control of all stages of tobacco beetle development is achieved at slightly below 0 degreees Fahrenheit (0.4 to be exact) for 24 hours _after the product has reached the desired temperature. _ That last is key - your cigars have to reach 0 degrees or so all the way to the center, and then stay there for 24 hours. (From the Cooperation Centre for Scientific Research Relative to Tobacco - CORESTA web site)

http://www.coresta.org/Guides/Guide-No9-Freezing-parameters_Nov09.pdf

It seems like 72 hours in the freezer works for everyone around here. This allows for the cigar to reach freezer temperature all the way through, and also may allow for longer exposure if the freezer isn't quite at 0 degrees.

Note that "flash freezing" places the tobacco in good air circulation in an environment that will take it down to -13F or lower, and then it only needs to stay for a few hours.


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## lukesparksoff (Apr 21, 2010)

These boogie man threads always get the hive buzzing, Freezing is like using condoms (not perfect at all , my money is on mother nature) ,eventually you are going to get drunk and forget LOL. Then your fate is up to the Cigar Gods.


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## jcazz (Apr 2, 2011)

Let me re-pose my original question since it seems the VAST majority of people weighing in on this thread freeze their 'gars regardless of the manufacturer's or distributor's handling.

Since it seems I've read that may manufacturers and some distributors freeze stock starting about 3 years ago - has anyone had a beetle outbreak in the last few years? Yea/nea and do you freeze or roll the dice with luck?


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## lukesparksoff (Apr 21, 2010)

I got hit 2 years ago and yes I do freeze even my highend stuff


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## TonyBrooklyn (Jan 28, 2010)

jcazz said:


> Let me re-pose my original question since it seems the VAST majority of people weighing in on this thread freeze their 'gars regardless of the manufacturer's or distributor's handling.
> 
> Since it seems I've read that may manufacturers and some distributors freeze stock starting about 3 years ago - has anyone had a beetle outbreak in the last few years? Yea/nea and do you freeze or roll the dice with luck?


Don't believe everything you read or hear. Supposedly Cuba freezes all stock that leaves the island. Wrong i know of many that have got hit by the dreaded beetle. After this so called fictitious freezing occurred.


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## kumanchu (Mar 16, 2011)

TonyBrooklyn said:


> Don't believe everything you read or hear. Supposedly Cuba freezes all stock that leaves the island. Wrong i know of many that have got hit by the dreaded beetle. After this so called fictitious freezing occurred.


there may be other reasons that explain why eggs or bugs were transfered to previously frozen cigars.

just because a guy washes his hands at a restaurant before leaving the bathroom, doesn't mean they are still clean after he opens a door to exit the bathroom by pulling on a dirty handle. the fact that his hands are dirty don't negate the fact that he washed his hands in an attempt to be clean.


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## TonyBrooklyn (Jan 28, 2010)

kumanchu said:


> there may be other reasons that explain why eggs or bugs were transfered to previously frozen cigars.
> 
> just because a guy washes his hands at a restaurant before leaving the bathroom, doesn't mean they are still clean after he opens a door to exit the bathroom by pulling on a dirty handle. the fact that his hands are dirty don't negate the fact that he washed his hands in an attempt to be clean.


That's exactly right so by freezing all my stock as i receive it. And storing in a pristine environment. I am sure that beetles can never infest my stock. Sort of a sterilization procedure its fool proof and mandatory IMHO!.


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## Frankenstein (Jan 12, 2011)

so if you guys buy a box, does the entire box go in the freezer as a whole, or do you break them up into 5 packs or so?


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## TonyBrooklyn (Jan 28, 2010)

Frankenstein said:


> so if you guys buy a box, does the entire box go in the freezer as a whole, or do you break them up into 5 packs or so?


You can freeze the whole box. I personally take them out and inspect everyone as i place them in a bag to freeze.:beerchug:


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## kumanchu (Mar 16, 2011)

TonyBrooklyn said:


> That's exactly right so by freezing all my stock as i receive it. And storing in a pristine environment. I am sure that beetles can never infest my stock. Sort of a sterilization procedure its fool proof and mandatory IMHO!.


thanks for finishing my thought! but I agree with this, and after a short mental debate last week have begun freezing all of the cigars that I have in my possession. there will be no comingling of previously frozen sticks with unfrozen sticks either


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## Mr. Slick (Aug 17, 2010)

kumanchu said:


> there may be other reasons that explain why eggs or bugs were transfered to previously frozen cigars.
> 
> just because a guy washes his hands at a restaurant before leaving the bathroom, doesn't mean they are still clean after he opens a door to exit the bathroom by pulling on a dirty handle. the fact that his hands are dirty don't negate the fact that he washed his hands in an attempt to be clean.


That just created the perfect analogy for me:

The supposed factory freezing is to a public restroom as freezing (for a possible 2nd time) when you receive an order is to a private restroom. I am one who likes to wait til I get home.... 
:bounce::bounce:


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## Mr. Slick (Aug 17, 2010)

Frankenstein said:


> so if you guys buy a box, does the entire box go in the freezer as a whole, or do you break them up into 5 packs or so?


I like to freeze the boxes too just incase they get used for a dry box or get used inside a cooler or something.

I don't know if it is possible for a beetle egg to be lurking in the wooden box somewhere. . . but I figured I would rule that out as a possible threat.


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## TonyBrooklyn (Jan 28, 2010)

Mr. Slick said:


> I like to freeze the boxes too just incase they get used for a dry box or get used inside a cooler or something.
> 
> I don't know if it is possible for a beetle egg to be lurking in the wooden box somewhere. . . but I figured I would rule that out as a possible threat.


If an egg is lurking the freezing process will destroy it. I personally if i freeze a whole box. Allow two extra days bumping it to 5 days instead of 3.


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## Mr. Slick (Aug 17, 2010)

TonyBrooklyn said:


> If an egg is lurking the freezing process will destroy it. I personally if i freeze a whole box. Allow two extra days bumping it to 5 days instead of 3.


:rockon: :rockon:


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## Tritones (Jun 23, 2010)

TonyBrooklyn said:


> If an egg is lurking the freezing process will destroy it. I personally if i freeze a whole box. Allow two extra days bumping it to 5 days instead of 3.


Absolutely - wood is one of the best insulators around and leaving your sticks in the box will definitely increase the time it takes to get the temperature down to where it needs to be. Even if you take the top off. The sticks are piled up and tend to insulate the center ones, and the wood itself will insulate the bottom ones.

If I had room to do it, I would take the sticks out, freeze them in ziplocks, and freeze the box separately - ideally with the lid open.


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## ziggityz (Sep 13, 2010)

So now that I'm thoroughly freaked out...what's the rule of thumb for a regular freezer? 5 days should be good?? then in the fridge for a day or so? I have a relatively small collection right now...about 30 or so if I clear out my humi, freeze the cigars, will I need to do anything special to the humi to kill anything in there as well??


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## blainer (Apr 22, 2011)

Some really great info here, although it gives me the eeby jeebies everytime i read about those infernal bugs!


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## Hannibal (Apr 22, 2011)

Are the beetles more prevalent in a certain make than any of the others? 

Only reason why I'm asking is you are hearing about it more and more now.


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## JGD (Mar 2, 2009)

ziggityz said:


> So now that I'm thoroughly freaked out...what's the rule of thumb for a regular freezer? 5 days should be good?? then in the fridge for a day or so? I have a relatively small collection right now...about 30 or so if I clear out my humi, freeze the cigars, will I need to do anything special to the humi to kill anything in there as well??


It depends on how cold your freezer gets. Mine is cold enough that 48 hours is enough to kill them.


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## jcazz (Apr 2, 2011)

*Cruel twist of irony*

So I started the thread because I was curious about the chances of getting a beetle outbreak. I have never had one, and hadn't heard about freezing sticks prior to joining Puff.

I have a small 25 count desktop humi that I had some low-value sticks in and this weekend while prepping to move them to the new cooler I saw.... a beetle larva!

Holy Sh!t! :jaw:

Fortunately those sticks had been alone in the desktop humi - and off to the freezer they went! I ran out of ziplock bags & space, but I managed to get about 1/2 of my collection into bags & in the freezer as well, and I'll flip the rest in Wednesday after the first batch has had it's soak.

So there you go - I started the thread because in ~14 years of smoking I've never had a problem and then I actually catch a friggin' larva in the humi!

I don't know where the little bugger came from though - I looked at all of the sticks and didn't see any holes in the cigars. I'm hoping & praying that maybe an egg was in the humi from way back and the temp/humidity just happened to be right to "hatch" the little beastie.

So color me converted; into the freezer everything now goes!

What a cruel twist of irony!


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## lukesparksoff (Apr 21, 2010)

just got my $1 sampler from CI,it went directly into the freezer. I was thinking why would someone sell $18 worth of cigars for a $1 free shipping (everyone would have brought them for $3 or $5) I was thinking what if i was CI and had a beetle out break in the bundled cigar section ,what would be cheaper refreeze everything or sell them for a $1. and free up some inventory. ,if a customer get a beetle,then they would send you a $1,Just my conspiracy theory LOL


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## bboz (Jan 8, 2011)

Thanks for the warning about beetles. I never knew. As soon as I get home, Im throwing half of sticks in the freezer and then the other half is going in


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## TonyBrooklyn (Jan 28, 2010)

http://www.cigarforums.net/forums/vb/cigar-questions/289422-beetles.html


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## kilowatter (Jun 7, 2009)

posted under wrong topic. sorry:sorry:


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## i2rule (Apr 21, 2011)

lukesparksoff said:


> just got my $1 sampler from CI,it went directly into the freezer. I was thinking why would someone sell $18 worth of cigars for a $1 free shipping (everyone would have brought them for $3 or $5) I was thinking what if i was CI and had a beetle out break in the bundled cigar section ,what would be cheaper refreeze everything or sell them for a $1. and free up some inventory. ,if a customer get a beetle,then they would send you a $1,Just my conspiracy theory LOL


Most offers like this are for first time customers and I highly doubt they want to send new customers beetle infested cigars. I would guess your two spots are just wrapper imperfections. After all, cigars are a natural item and they aren't all "perfect". Usually beetles do a lot more damage than two little holes and you can see the "tunnel" from the filler all the way out of the wrapper. From what I can see that's not the case here. Plus, the cigars in that sampler are from reputable companies, most if not all of which freeze their sticks and tobacco on the factory level. I've been a long time customer of CI and I never had any problems, when I did they made up for it and then some. I don't think it is right to put up a post like this calling out CI when you're not even sure they are beetles. :director: :spank:


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## lukesparksoff (Apr 21, 2010)

i2rule said:


> Most offers like this are for first time customers and I highly doubt they want to send new customers beetle infested cigars. I would guess your two spots are just wrapper imperfections. After all, cigars are a natural item and they aren't all "perfect". Usually beetles do a lot more damage than two little holes and you can see the "tunnel" from the filler all the way out of the wrapper. From what I can see that's not the case here. Plus, the cigars in that sampler are from reputable companies, most if not all of which freeze their sticks and tobacco on the factory level. I've been a long time customer of CI and I never had any problems, when I did they made up for it and then some. I don't think it is right to put up a post like this calling out CI when you're not even sure they are beetles. :director: :spank:


People kill me ,do conspiracy theory mean anything to you

second no freeze process is perfect mother nature will win

#3 what brand it is means nothing

#4 and yes I have gotten a beetle from CI before (CI was very nice about it they just sent me replacement cigars) ,EVERYONE gets beetles it's like a common cold ,all you can do is try your best to be safe





 (PLEASE WATCH)

Sorry if this sounds harsh but people get so defensive about their fav.vendor


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## TonyBrooklyn (Jan 28, 2010)

Any hole in your wrapper means beetles ate there way out period! As far as the vendor goes any vendor that would send you beetles!
Is not a vendor i would be using again. That being said freeze all your stash as you acquire it. Trust no one but yourself!:nod:


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## hawaiian (Jan 24, 2011)

ziggityz said:


> So now that I'm thoroughly freaked out...what's the rule of thumb for a regular freezer? 5 days should be good?? then in the fridge for a day or so? I have a relatively small collection right now...about 30 or so if I clear out my humi, freeze the cigars, will I need to do anything special to the humi to kill anything in there as well??


Search for a thread called "Science of freezing..." it has a chart of times required to kill the eggs, larvae, bugs... My freezer at home goes to -2F which is around -18C I think so few hours is enought to kill them all but I leave my stick in there for 3 days. I go overkill to make sure I don't have those stinking bugs.


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## d_day (Aug 24, 2008)

eNthusiast said:


> been smoking almost 2 years now and haven't had to deal with beetles.
> 
> you have to understand the conditions in which the beetles need to hatch. if your humidor conditions are kept under those which the beetle larvae need to hatch you should be clear. i'm too lazy to look up those conditions but as a general rule i'll say you should be under 74 degrees RH and temp F.
> 
> you also have to keep in mind those conditions during transit.


Beetles can be controlled through temperature, but the temps are much lower than what you would think. It takes temps below 63 degrees to keep eggs from hatching. It takes temps far lower to kill larvae that have already hatched. Relative humidity is irrelevant.

And let's not forget that this is pest has been annoying humans for 3500 years. It also attacks dried food stuffs we keep around the house, so an infestation can come from outside sources as well.


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## TonyBrooklyn (Jan 28, 2010)

JGD said:


> It depends on how cold your freezer gets. Mine is cold enough that 48 hours is enough to kill them.


I have a commercial freezer that gets down to 25 below! I still keep em in there for 72 hrs minimum! Better safe than sorry i never understood what all the rush is about.


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## SanchoAnchovy (Oct 9, 2010)

Now I'm paranoid.

I threw some new sticks in with an old, dry bunch I'm trying to resuscitate. Does that mean I should freeze _everything_ in there?


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## i2rule (Apr 21, 2011)

TonyBrooklyn said:


> Any hole in your wrapper means beetles ate there way out period! As far as the vendor goes any vendor that would send you beetles!
> Is not a vendor i would be using again. That being said freeze all your stash as you acquire it. Trust no one but yourself!:nod:


I don't know where you get your information but tabacco leaves being grown in the dirt they do have inperfection. Holes inthe wraper could be caused by a couple of thing. The sun for example can cause hold in the leaf therefore you have some growers using the shade method to grow there tabacco. Or insects could have eat the leafs as well.

Beetles are know to do extensive damage to a cigar not just a pin hole. 
Sorry my friend but you are severely misinformed. :noidea:


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## jakesmokes (Mar 10, 2011)

jcazz said:


> Yep - they lay eggs on the growing leaves and they get rolled into the cigars. The eggs are tiny & get rolled into the finished cigar.
> 
> If the conditions are right they can hatch & the larva go wild & turn your smokes into dust & beetle-poop.
> 
> ...


If this is true.. then is it even possible to kill the eggs in a residential freezer? From what I have heard, residential freezers dont get that cold? Is this true?

Thanks.


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## lukesparksoff (Apr 21, 2010)

jakesmokes said:


> If this is true.. then is it even possible to kill the eggs in a residential freezer? From what I have heard, residential freezers dont get that cold? Is this true?
> 
> Thanks.


As far as I know , a residential freezers does get cold anuff to kill most beetles.It's like using condoms ,it should work but not 100%.


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## iMarc (Feb 24, 2010)

jakesmokes said:


> If this is true.. then is it even possible to kill the eggs in a residential freezer? From what I have heard, residential freezers dont get that cold? Is this true?
> 
> Thanks.


My side by side refrigerator/freezer operates right around 0 F (-18 C) for normal daily use.

According to the science behind freezing thread, that should mean unprotected beetles at all stages will be dead in 1-3 of hours at that temperature.

Surely expanding that out to 48-72 hours should be sufficient.


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## jcazz (Apr 2, 2011)

jakesmokes said:


> If this is true.. then is it even possible to kill the eggs in a residential freezer? From what I have heard, residential freezers dont get that cold? Is this true?
> 
> Thanks.


Our garage fridge's freezer runs at between 0f and -1f which should be plenty cold enough to kill in a matter of hours. I agree with Marc - 72 hours should't leave much alive even in fairly dense bundles of cigars.

After starting this thread - I found a larva in my desktop humi! I have run 1/2 of my sticks through a 72 hour freeze. They came out last night and the other 1/2 are in the freezer right now.

I've smoked cigars for ~14 years and never had a problem until now. Go figure!


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## lukesparksoff (Apr 21, 2010)

I have room to freeze everyones Cigars , just mail them to me and I will take very special care of them LOL.


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## iMarc (Feb 24, 2010)

lukesparksoff said:


> I have room to freeze everyones Cigars , just mail them to me and I will take very special care of them LOL.


Excellent!

I've got 15 boxes of Ron Mexicos that I've been aging that I'm starting to worry about.


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## lukesparksoff (Apr 21, 2010)

iMarc said:


> Excellent!
> 
> I've got 15 boxes of Ron Mexicos that I've been aging that I'm starting to worry about.


send them over brother LOL .15 boxes will not even put a dent in my frig. I will smoke a $1 cigar just like it was a Pardon#45 ROTFLMAO


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## Rock31 (Sep 30, 2010)

Don't hate on the Mexicos, and they come in bundles not boxes :bitchslap:


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## Tritones (Jun 23, 2010)

iMarc said:


> My side by side refrigerator/freezer operates right around 0 F (-18 C) for normal daily use.
> 
> According to the science behind freezing thread, that should mean unprotected beetles at all stages will be dead in 1-3 of hours at that temperature.
> 
> Surely expanding that out to 48-72 hours should be sufficient.





jcazz said:


> Our garage fridge's freezer runs at between 0f and -1f which should be plenty cold enough to kill in a matter of hours. I agree with Marc - 72 hours should't leave much alive even in fairly dense bundles of cigars.
> 
> After starting this thread - I found a larva in my desktop humi! I have run 1/2 of my sticks through a 72 hour freeze. They came out last night and the other 1/2 are in the freezer right now.
> 
> I've smoked cigars for ~14 years and never had a problem until now. Go figure!


The reason to leave them in the freezer for longer than the few hours needed to actually kill the beetles (all stages) is to make sure the cigars get that cold all the way to their centers.


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## jakesmokes (Mar 10, 2011)

Sorry to bump this thread again.. but I am paranoid. 

My plan is to start freezing in my residential freezer. I have turned the setting to its coldest for the freezer. So.. if I am reading the threads right, I need to put the cigars for 12 hours in the fridge, then 2 days in the freezer, then 12 hours again in the fridge. And then back into the coolerdor. Is that the general idea? Or am I missing a step?

I have spent so much money on these things.. and I dont want to screw it up .

Thanks!


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## asmartbull (Aug 16, 2009)

Hell, I just put them in the freezer for 3 days, then back in the coolers......

Relax and enjoy the hobbie


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## jcazz (Apr 2, 2011)

jakesmokes said:


> Sorry to bump this thread again.. but I am paranoid.
> 
> My plan is to start freezing in my residential freezer. I have turned the setting to its coldest for the freezer. So.. if I am reading the threads right, I need to put the cigars for 12 hours in the fridge, then 2 days in the freezer, then 12 hours again in the fridge. And then back into the coolerdor. Is that the general idea? Or am I missing a step?
> 
> ...


You can do the before/after step in the fridge, but I don't think it's necessary. I've tried some sticks I froze directly and I don't notice any difference in them having skipped the fridge step. Actually, I'm not sophisticated enough to notice a difference between the frozen & un-frozen sticks I have.

I wrapped them up well in Ziploc freezer bags, sucked all the air out with a straw, and let 'em freeze for 72 hours. Then I spread them out on a clean towel and let them come to room temp for about an hour.

I wiped off any condensation on the cello and popped them back into the cooler or humidor. I've not noticed any problems at all.

I do have two boxes I'm freezing now. Those I wrapped with saran and I'm going to leave them in for 120 hours just to be sure the very center gets to 0F. I'm in no rush to smoke any of the boxed cigars.


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## lukesparksoff (Apr 21, 2010)

Depends on how cold your freezer gets ,the colder the freezer the smaller the water crystals will be .My freezer on a medium setting runs at about neg -23C, at that temp I skip the frig (but I would say they are not ready to smoke ,but some members have no problems with it)


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## jakesmokes (Mar 10, 2011)

Hate to bump this thread.. though its a pretty good thread.

So I decided to freeze the Tambos I just got. And.. oddly enough.. I am short a 2 gallon bag. So I put the last box in there, sucked out the air and then sealed it up. Then I put *that* into a plastic kitchen bag and sucked the air out of that, knotted it up and stuck it in the freezer. Would that still work?

Thanks.

David


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## sengjc (Nov 15, 2010)

You know it is summer in the Northern Hemisphere when there is an outbreak of beetle threads on the forums :mrgreen:


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## 54 Conqueror (Jun 17, 2011)

I am one of those that are afraid I'd ruin them by doing something wrong.

Guess I may have to start now that I am trying to build a stash for when my Aristocrat arrives next month.

I am freaked about throwing all my Opus in a freezer!


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## Dizzy (Mar 19, 2011)

jakesmokes said:


> Sorry to bump this thread again.. but I am paranoid.
> 
> My plan is to start freezing in my residential freezer. I have turned the setting to its coldest for the freezer. So.. if I am reading the threads right, I need to put the cigars for 12 hours in the fridge, then 2 days in the freezer, then 12 hours again in the fridge. And then back into the coolerdor. Is that the general idea? Or am I missing a step?
> 
> ...


I have done a day in the fridge, 2 in the freezer, 1 in the fridge, let them sit in the bag on the counter for 6 hours and then back in the humi. Haven't had any problems with wrappers cracking, flavor loss, OR BEETLES...



54 Conqueror said:


> I am one of those that are afraid I'd ruin them by doing something wrong.
> 
> Guess I may have to start now that I am trying to build a stash for when my Aristocrat arrives next month.
> 
> I am freaked about throwing all my Opus in a freezer!


I was freaked out to throw stuff in the freezer at first too. But, I was more freaked out about beetles eating my cigars. Don't get me wrong, my collection is not as large or as expensive as most of the guys here, but I don't make that much and would have to lose even one cigar.

A fellow BOTL posted this thread and included some insight some from research he has done. Haven't had any issues with any of my smokes after freezing. Just gotta be careful.

http://www.cigarforums.net/forums/vb/cigar-questions/272095-science-behind-freezing.html


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