# Drybox rules of thumb.



## madbricky (Mar 29, 2013)

I have been putting 5 cigars a week into a seasoned un-humidified humidor (20 count).
They are stored cello on at 67% rh and transferred to box.
After one week the darker, thicker wrapped smokes still tunnel and go out. CT wrapped smokes are just ok.
Questions:
50 ring dark smokes such as Oscuro, Cameroon, Maduros cello on or off and roughly how long to keep in for best wrapper burn and no relights.

Light wrapped 50 ring, cello on or off and rule of thumb on drybox time.
Thanks in advance for sage advice and info my B-SOtls.
CT


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## HIM (Sep 12, 2012)

Doesn't really answer your questions but just store everything around 62 and don't smoke anything without a few months rest. Everything in my stash is acclimated to 60-62 and smokes perfectly without dry boxing.


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## Tobias Lutz (Feb 18, 2013)

HIM said:


> Doesn't really answer your questions but just store everything around 62 and don't smoke anything without a few months rest. Everything in my stash is acclimated to 60-62 and smokes perfectly without dry boxing.


+1. IMO dry-boxing is a band-aid on the wound that is your humidor's incorrect Rh. Store them right and smoke them straight from the humi.


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## six10 (May 23, 2013)

Could it be the humidity escaping the cigars and then getting caught by the cello (that's right next to the wrapper)? If I drybox its always without cello and in an AC house but for a few hours. I've had habano 2000 wrappers before that definitely had burn issues. Hope it works out for you.


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## Pj201 (Apr 27, 2013)

IMO one thing that causes tunneling the most is to many puffs to fast, and the thicker skinned camis, and the heavy darker wrappers will magnify this. I was taught that about one puff a minute was perfect for a nice burn and a cool ,flavorful smoke. I know the world is in a hurry but that's one of the wonderful things of our hobby, enjoying the time spent and relaxing. If there is any advice I could give most botl it is slow your burn!


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## Branzig (Jul 14, 2013)

I find that all dark wrappers are a little tricky to burn if you aren't used to them. Too little or too many puffs and you can run into problems. The oils make for some wonky burns at times and if they are over humidified or to fresh forget about it.

I agree with the above statements, forget dry boxing, just lower the overall RH and smoke right from your humi. Rapidly lowering the cigar's RH can be just as bad as rapidly raising it. My humi is around 63-65 and after about a month I can smoke anything immediately when I pull out a stick.


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## Gdaddy (Sep 20, 2012)

Maduros especially can take a fair amount of time to dry out. I have some that have been in my humidor for 6 months and are still tunneling and going out. There's too much moisture in them still at 63% RH humidor.

I read somewhere that a cigar will absorb moisture much faster than it will release moisture. So a dry cigar can sit @ 63% for a few weeks and be ready to smoke but cigar, especially maduro, that's too wet can take a year or more to get where it needs to be.

That's why I started my moisture removal process using a microwave. I've given cigars that I dryed in the microwave to people and I didn't tell them I had used this method. They all enjoyed the cigars very much and I'm amazed at how well they burn. However, the interesting thing is when people know it's been microwaved they taste something funky. The imagination has a powerful affect on the cigar. Blind testing shows the reality that they taste just fine.

The problem I see with dry boxing is that the cigar drys from the outside in. The process is not uniform throughout. The microwave works on the entire cigar.


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## madbricky (Mar 29, 2013)

Great advice! Im probably guilty of under puffing on most smokes trying not to ruin the last third with bitterness. I really enjoy the Oscuro flavor and its a challenge to smoke it right so wrapper and filler keep pace. 
I'm going to cut the crystals back and shoot for 60% from 65-67% that it is typically holding in the air conditioned room. I'm going to pull the cello on my cued up smokes too in case the cello is trapping moisture on the wrapper.
Thanks BOTLs!!


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## The Wolverine (Jun 19, 2013)

Why are you dryboxing in the first place ?If your humidity is right you should not have to.I can see it if you get sticks for a shop that is over humified and you do it to try one but other than that no.Maduro wrappers sometime have burn problems, especially even more if they are too wet.Lower the humidity in your storage a little I use 65-69% for everything (nothing smaller than 50rg in the lot) and maybe let the maduros sit longer to stabilize.I don't let them set for months I don't need to,two weeks tops.


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## beercritic (Feb 13, 2011)

I rotate sticks into my 12 count aluminum herfadore. I tend to smoke them after 3 days "rest."


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## Branzig (Jul 14, 2013)

madbricky said:


> I'm going to pull the cello on my cued up smokes too in case the cello is trapping moisture on the wrapper.


I don't know if that is really necessary, I keep the cello on all my cigars that come with them and have never experienced moisture being trapped. True cello is permeable. But it is a personal preference thing I suppose, I take my cigars to a lot of bars and friends houses, so I like the added protection the cello gives.


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## The Wolverine (Jun 19, 2013)

It takes awhile for the beads to dry what % beads do you have?The cello is not the problem that makes no difference.Make sure you toast the foot evenly.


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## Fuzzy (Jun 19, 2011)

I got caught up in the drybox craze awhile back. Found it harder for me to create a dry box effect than it is to just maintain my storage at just under 65% and rest my stash for a year or so.


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## B-daddy (Oct 29, 2012)

Gdaddy said:


> Maduros especially can take a fair amount of time to dry out. I have some that have been in my humidor for 6 months and are still tunneling and going out. There's too much moisture in them still at 63% RH humidor.
> 
> I read somewhere that a cigar will absorb moisture much faster than it will release moisture. So a dry cigar can sit @ 63% for a few weeks and be ready to smoke but cigar, especially maduro, that's too wet can take a year or more to get where it needs to be.
> 
> ...


Don, you're an evil genius. I generally store everything from 63-65% and don't have many burn issues right out of the humi. But your microwave process is so intriguing, that I'm going to try with sticks ROTT (which I usually have all kinds of burn issues, particularly the maduros). Can't wait to see what happens.

I've got a buddy that routinely rails on me about keeping my humidity too low. He's a 70/70 guy and I've smoked from his stash before. About every other cigar is bitter and burns badly. He then becomes an excuse machine. I don't push the issue. Well-stored, good-burning, tasty stogies are reward enough.


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## Gdaddy (Sep 20, 2012)

B-daddy said:


> Don, you're an evil genius. I generally store everything from 63-65% and don't have many burn issues right out of the humi. But your microwave process is so intriguing, that I'm going to try with sticks ROTT (which I usually have all kinds of burn issues, particularly the maduros). Can't wait to see what happens.
> 
> I've got a buddy that routinely rails on me about keeping my humidity too low. He's a 70/70 guy and I've smoked from his stash before. About every other cigar is bitter and burns badly. He then becomes an excuse machine. I don't push the issue. Well-stored, good-burning, tasty stogies are reward enough.


If you try it please follow the exact procedure. No one yet, to my knowledge, has followed the three 15 second intervals. The first 15 seconds yields the most steam. The second 15 seconds yields half the steam. The third 15 second interval is optional. Then let it rest for a few hours before smoking. You will be amazed how good it burns.

Like I said, I've confirmed that blind taste tests on unknowing smokers that there are no odd flavors. Just moisture has been removed and the flavor is improved because of that. However, I do try to avoid buying cigars that are that wet to begin with but as we all know it happens from time to time.

Good luck!


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## The Wolverine (Jun 19, 2013)

Gdaddy said:


> If you try it please follow the exact procedure. No one yet, to my knowledge, has followed the three 15 second intervals. The first 15 seconds yields the most steam. The second 15 seconds yields half the steam. The third 15 second interval is optional. Then let it rest for a few hours before smoking. You will be amazed how good it burns.
> 
> Like I said, I've confirmed that blind taste tests on unknowing smokers that there are no odd flavors. Just moisture has been removed and the flavor is improved because of that. However, I do try to avoid buying cigars that are that wet to begin with but as we all know it happens from time to time.
> 
> Good luck!


Microwave.....ok..:faint2: Cigars have been around how long centuries and they smoked fine.I would rather spend the time and get the storage % right than be in a hurry just to smoke wet cigar.imho Patience that's the key. hwell:


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## A.McSmoke (Jan 9, 2013)

Pj201 said:


> IMO one thing that causes tunneling the most is to many puffs to fast, and the thicker skinned camis, and the heavy darker wrappers will magnify this. I was taught that about one puff a minute was perfect for a nice burn and a cool ,flavorful smoke. I know the world is in a hurry but that's one of the wonderful things of our hobby, enjoying the time spent and relaxing. If there is any advice I could give most botl it is slow your burn!


My thoughts and suggestion to the OP are in line with Patrick.

If all of your cigars are having similar burn/tunneling issues, I think the problem is more with the way the cigars are being lit & smoked. I don't think you could be that unlucky to have so many poorly burning sticks in a row.

Try putting a good toast on the foot before puffing if you normally light & puff simultaneously. 
Try using a different cut that is smaller and creates less smoke/cooler temps.


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## Gdaddy (Sep 20, 2012)

The Wolverine said:


> Microwave.....ok..:faint2: Cigars have been around how long centuries and they smoked fine.I would rather spend the time and get the storage % right than be in a hurry just to smoke wet cigar.imho Patience that's the key. hwell:


Cigar companies have long realized the benefits of aging the cigar. No question about that. They also realize that cigar aging costs them money. Some cigars get sent out prematurely and need more time to rest.

Space in my wineador (330 ct) is valuable to me. If I get a few bundles that are damp they take up a lot of space just sitting there. Depending on how wet they are it's possible they take up space for many months to over a year.

My winedor is not used as an aging room but rather a holding room. I put my premium cigars, that are aged well from the factory, in the winedor to _maintain_ their RH until I smoke them in the coming weeks. For me the trouble begins when buying lower priced sticks for golf/yard gars. Occasionally, I get a bundle that are wet and now they are taking up valuable space. As I said, I'm not interested in aging them but now I'm forced to. If I could I'd send them back.

So, if I have a cigar that has well aged tobacco but, after rolling, it's plagued with burn problems and bitterness and too wet to smoke all I want to do is take out the moisture. Not looking to age it more (it's already aged)...just dry it out.

The science behind the microwave is that it's a frequency that excites the water molecule. (no plutonium or anything like that) Can take that water molecule from a solid to a liquid. Then it's easy to just blow it away. Just the water molecule. Of course, if you microwave a cigar for too long a period you'll cook the cigar and ruin it. However, I believe you can excite the moisture to just the right amount and remove just the water. Leaving the cigar properly aged and properly dried without waiting a year. This moves those recently unsmokable cigars into enjoyable smoke and out of my humidor making room for other 'hopefully' properly dried and aged cigars.

I have had excellent results with this method. For some reason people conjure up all kinds of reason not to even try it. Again, I'm not claiming to turn dog rockets into Padrons nor would I ever microwave any properly aged premium cigars. If you have room to age then store them away for months on end. Provided the end result is the same I'd rather wait 2 minutes.


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## madbricky (Mar 29, 2013)

Avery, Im toasting then torching the end into an even cherry before I even puff. Im a little bit at a loss on the last dozen smokes going into burn issues and then bitter at 1/2 or last 1/3. I turn the smokes every week in the trays. Two digital hygrometers reading 1% difference at the native 67% of crystal KL. Ive pulled 2lbs of crystals on the bottom and letting the air exchange every day going for 62%
Im not a mad puffer either. Could it be the high humidity of the smoking room? Everything starts tasty then goes downhill at 50%
I just stubbed out a really good diesel unholy cocktail and cut it open.1/2" tunnel again. Aargh!
The burn issue is on the outside.
Even nuked the burn is the same eventually.
This has been an issue in July only.
Ill try a smoke in the AC today.


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## Gdaddy (Sep 20, 2012)

madbricky said:


> Avery, Im toasting then torching the end into an even cherry before I even puff. Im a little bit at a loss on the last dozen smokes going into burn issues and then bitter at 1/2 or last 1/3. I turn the smokes every week in the trays. Two digital hygrometers reading 1% difference at the native 67% of crystal KL. Ive pulled 2lbs of crystals on the bottom and letting the air exchange every day going for 62%
> Im not a mad puffer either. Could it be the high humidity of the smoking room? Everything starts tasty then goes downhill at 50%
> I just stubbed out a really good diesel unholy cocktail and cut it open.1/2" tunnel again. Aargh!
> The burn issue is on the outside.
> ...


Even at lower RH you will have to wait months, even up to a year. Maduros especially take a long time to get the moisture out.


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## The Wolverine (Jun 19, 2013)

Gdaddy said:


> Cigar companies have long realized the benefits of aging the cigar. No question about that. They also realize that cigar aging costs them money. Some cigars get sent out prematurely and need more time to rest.
> 
> Space in my wineador (330 ct) is valuable to me. If I get a few bundles that are damp they take up a lot of space just sitting there. Depending on how wet they are it's possible they take up space for many months to over a year.
> 
> ...


There is a difference between resting cigars for aging and fermentation.Yes some companies do rush out sticks and when they do they have that hint of ammonia( I have even smoked some that have been rolled a short time and they smoked fine) .I guess you are in a place with high humidity the only time I have had a cigar that was so wet it would not smoke is when it was over humified because of storage at the store or me.I don't store for months before I can smoke mine can't wait that long....but I store them with less humidity.The microwave dries the cigar not Age it.Aging mellows out the tobacco over time,years.You can't rush that.You want a fast dry out ok nuke it I guess...there should be enough dry ones around I would think.That's just me.


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## The Wolverine (Jun 19, 2013)

I smoke maduros all the time and I don't wait years...has to be an environment thing.


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## The Wolverine (Jun 19, 2013)

madbricky said:


> Avery, Im toasting then torching the end into an even cherry before I even puff. Im a little bit at a loss on the last dozen smokes going into burn issues and then bitter at 1/2 or last 1/3. I turn the smokes every week in the trays. Two digital hygrometers reading 1% difference at the native 67% of crystal KL. Ive pulled 2lbs of crystals on the bottom and letting the air exchange every day going for 62%
> Im not a mad puffer either. Could it be the high humidity of the smoking room? Everything starts tasty then goes downhill at 50%
> I just stubbed out a really good diesel unholy cocktail and cut it open.1/2" tunnel again. Aargh!
> The burn issue is on the outside.
> ...


They are too wet have to be or puffing to fast.Try something other than KL that seems not to be working or your storage does not have a tight seal. I had this problem a few months ago everything was bitter,hygrometer was 67% found out it was off by 10% !Everything was wet got a new one and put in Boveda bags two way is the best way.Problem solved.


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## madbricky (Mar 29, 2013)

Im going to reset the whole shebang. Starting with zeroed hygrometers, uncharged crystals and yelling at my sweetie for cranking the AC to 60. Its freezing in there! Its not me, i smoke em each like a condemned man. Slow and sensual.

Hey Don! I get the microwave thing, even use it on ROTT. I think you either have stock in Amana or your dearly enthusiastic about a good trick. Im really needing a different fix here. Thanks bro


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## CigarPastor (Jul 23, 2013)

Gdaddy said:


> That's why I started my moisture removal process using a microwave.


I have never heard of this technique. Does it really work? Do you let it cool down? How long? I'm interested.


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## The Wolverine (Jun 19, 2013)

madbricky said:


> Im going to reset the whole shebang. Starting with zeroed hygrometers, uncharged crystals and yelling at my sweetie for cranking the AC to 60. Its freezing in there! Its not me, i smoke em each like a condemned man. Slow and sensual.
> 
> Hey Don! I get the microwave thing, even use it on ROTT. I think you either have stock in Amana or your dearly enthusiastic about a good trick. Im really needing a different fix here. Thanks bro


I'm smoking a maduro now that got to me on the 13th,burn is razor-sharp has not gone out once....


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## madbricky (Mar 29, 2013)

Tim, The CI cigars are run through a chilled bath of "save our shipping damage claims" water and I have yet to get a smokable out of them under 30 days.
Other vendors I hear may do better.


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## The Wolverine (Jun 19, 2013)

madbricky said:


> Tim, The CI cigars are run through a chilled bath of "save our shipping damage claims" water and I have yet to get a smokable out of them under 30 days.
> Other vendors I hear may do better.


Never heard of that before but maybe that is why they don't ship with the little moisture bags ( that I like).Just got some from them the other day will see what happens.


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## Gdaddy (Sep 20, 2012)

CigarPastor said:


> I have never heard of this technique. Does it really work? Do you let it cool down? How long? I'm interested.


Yes, it really does work. I do this for cigars that are too moist and having tunneling or problems staying lit and bitterness.

Follow these steps exactly.

First cut the end open in one cigar. Place the one cigar in the microwave and give it 15 seconds on 'high'. Take it out an immediately blow out through the cigar. Careful to not burn your lips as the steam is very warm. You should see steam come out the end. Let it rest for a few moments to cool off and repeat another 15 seconds. The second time should yield a lesser amount of steam. This visibly shows you there is less moisture in the cigar now. Let it sit for a half hour to completely cool down and your good to smoke it. You can experiment with a third 15 second interval but you may not need it.

You should get very much improved burn and bitterness should be gone also.

Let me know if you have any questions.


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## Tobias Lutz (Feb 18, 2013)

madbricky said:


> Tim, The CI cigars are run through a chilled bath of "save our shipping damage claims" water


LOL :lol::lol::lol:


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## CigarPastor (Jul 23, 2013)

Gdaddy said:


> You should get very much improved burn and bitterness should be gone also.
> 
> Let me know if you have any questions.


Thanks for the reply! After I posted I realized you had already answered some of my question. Thanks for still helping a noob!

I will try it! I'll admit I'm skeptical about nuking a cigar, but I'll try it with some yard cigars I've been having issues with. 
Question: has this ever split wrappers or other issues? Is there a fail rate to it or is it 100%?


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## Gdaddy (Sep 20, 2012)

CigarPastor said:


> Thanks for the reply! After I posted I realized you had already answered some of my question. Thanks for still helping a noob!
> 
> I will try it! I'll admit I'm skeptical about nuking a cigar, but I'll try it with some yard cigars I've been having issues with.
> Question: has this ever split wrappers or other issues? Is there a fail rate to it or is it 100%?


So far 100%. Not one crack.

Don't squeeze them and handle them gently after you blow out the steam and you should be fine.

Make sure you follow the steps to the tee.


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## The Wolverine (Jun 19, 2013)

“PATIENCE YOU MUST HAVE my young padawan” nothing takes the place of time....Instant gratification I guess.


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## erosing (Aug 3, 2010)

Have you checked the humidity in your dry box? Also, have you tried cutting before dry boxing?


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## Gdaddy (Sep 20, 2012)

Everyone here seems to love technology. They absolutely love their iphones more than anything. However, I find it interesting that when it comes to drying cigars the use of technology is NOT welcome. 

I mentioned microwaving at the Corona cigar bar the other night and now I'm as welcome as George Zimmerman at an NAACP meeting.


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## The Wolverine (Jun 19, 2013)

Yeah believe me it's not that bad...It's not that we don't love technology it's that this seems to be a quick fix for a more underlying problem.Improper storage and humidification. That should be addressed first because it can lead to more problems like mold.


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## madbricky (Mar 29, 2013)

Moving my stash of 8 smokes a week at 58%rh to a desktop humi at my room temp has really improved things. I also used my Xacto knife to cut a deep slit across the entubados style smokes to bring the draw closer to the outside. Works better on the thinner wrappers too. No cracking of wrapper.


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## The Wolverine (Jun 19, 2013)

You used the knife on what ...?Not the cigars right...


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