# Info who claim they have MC Edmundos...



## poker (Dec 11, 1997)

From the Habanos SA website:

Habanos S.A. is pleased to announce the world launching of Edmundo, the new vitola from Montecristo. The launching is going to take place in Paris on *May, 13* . Coprova, our Exclusive Distributor in France will be in charge of this remarkable event. Other Exclusive Distributors will be invited to the launching of Edmundo which is the first size to be added to Montecristo's standard size range since 1971.

From a reputable source dated today:

Lots of stories about regarding the new Montecristo Edmundo 
which is due to be launched in the UK market on the 20th of May but I have it confirmed :

1) Edmundo is not yet for sale in Havana
2) Edmundo is not yet for sale anywhere.

Consequently,if you have bought or been offered Edmundo already,
it is likely that the cigars are not what they are purported to be.

Heres my question. If the Montecristo Edmundo in due to be released in May, according to Habanos SA, how is it that some of you already have them? 
If I were a cautious man, I would question my sources.


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## DaveC (Sep 4, 2003)

hmmm, me thinks that promo boxes were available...


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## Deem (Jan 1, 2000)

"*Diplomatico 
Club Member

Joined: 20 Jun 2003
Posts: 536
Location: San Diego, CA
Posted: Mon May 03, 2004 9:01 am Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

And mine came from a LCDH owner who scored several boxes pre-launch from a friendship he has with a VP at Habanos SA. Review posted. * "
This was a post at Cigar Weekly today. Apparently David at the TJ LCDH has had quite a few boxes.


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## poker (Dec 11, 1997)

Promo boxes? Wait, if Habanos SA controls the launching date of a cigar & also names the distributer (Coprova) that will be launching the event, I see no way anyone can get a "promo", let alone a full box. I could be wrong, but I personally wont be buying any Edmundos till after they are more widely available. I would rather "know" I will get the real deal, then "hope" I get the real deal.  

Kinda reminds me of when Siglo VI's were starting to show up a month before they were officially released. Reports of fake VI's floated around at that time too.


Just food for thought.


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## DaveC (Sep 4, 2003)

wow, some of our advertised vendors here are already offering them too.


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## poker (Dec 11, 1997)

Like I said, I could be wrong. I hope everyone here that did get them, got real ones.


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## MoTheMan (May 24, 2003)

Deem said:


> "*
> And mine came from a LCDH owner who scored several boxes pre-launch from a friendship he has with a VP at Habanos SA. Review posted. * "
> This was a post at Cigar Weekly today. Apparently David at the TJ LCDH has had quite a few boxes.




What Deem said, and sources have also indicated to me that the LCDH does have a few boxes.


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## Bruce5 (Jul 27, 2003)

I got mine from MotheMan and his source seems legit to me.
If they were not real, then they used Montecristo's tobacco.
I know two very reputable sites that are selling them.
One advertizes right here on C.S. 
.


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## poker (Dec 11, 1997)

Well obviously Im wrong & the Habanos SA website is lieing to me LOL


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## Deem (Jan 1, 2000)

Poker, didn't the LCDH in TJ have the Siglo VI's before the official release for an event? The box Barry bought? Not sure the exact date and if it was before official release though.


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## ilikecigars (Mar 24, 2003)

me thinks the reputible source....who calls us his friend....is in competition with the other vendors...........so dont believe every email you recieve..why is he so concerned anyway? oh...thats right hes our friend...yeah, right..o.k.
there around and there legit...he simply hasnt got them in yet...


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## jimmy (May 1, 2003)

poker said:


> Heres my question. If the Montecristo Edmundo in due to be released in May, according to Habanos SA, how is it that some of you already have them?
> If I were a cautious man, I would question my sources.


and i would love to hear about, or see the responses from these vendors posted here if possible. of course ommitting the vendor.
jimmy


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## ricmac25 (May 13, 2003)

I've seen a vendor who has them "coming soon" but they weren't in yet. They were taking pre-orders though.


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## poker (Dec 11, 1997)

ilikecigars, obviously you got the same email as I did. This led me to seek out my own answers by searching the Habanos SA website Habanos SA

This led me to the original question in my post:
_If the Montecristo Edmundo in due to be released May 13th, according to Habanos SA, how is it that some of you already have them? _

The business you mention in your post is irrelevant to the question.

Now I dont doubt for one minute that there are some Edmundos out there. Trust me, I know. I have had Trinidad Robusto Extras & other cigars 4+ months prior to their "official" release, so I know some cigars get handed out prior to launching, but lots of full boxes?

Another question since Im probably alone on this one (and thats okay, I dont mind asking questions): What exactly is everyone using as a "guage" for authenticity on these cigars? What are you comparing them to?


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## MoTheMan (May 24, 2003)

poker said:


> Another question since Im probably alone on this one (and thats okay, I dont mind asking questions): What exactly is everyone using as a "guage" for authenticity on these cigars? What are you comparing them to?


That's a great question to ask because I'm always suspicious of any Cuban cigar I ever smoke as to its authenticity. Even if it's from a reliable, established, reputable source, I still carry a small degree of suspicion. Part of that, I guess, is because there's still secrecy surrounding the island of Cuba (i.e., the way the Castro or any communist regime rules), and with secrecy there can be inconsistency of information. So even if I know of a reputable source, I don't know how good or reliable their suppliers are.

In one of my first posts on CS I wrote, "Now I can never be sure that what I'm getting is 100% authentic Havanas, no matter where I am ordering from, even if it's from Davidoff of Geneva", and that's just what I've come to believe. When it comes to ISOM's, it's still a bit of a crap shoot where you take your chances. BUT, those chances are getting better and better all the time in our (the consumer's) favor.

Back to your question Poker, because I think it's a very important question for CS. What I use as a guage is a number of different factors and not just a single one. Here's what I look for.

1) Authenticity. I keep a mental note on box codes, seals, box and band craftsmanship, and nearly always check them out (often more than once).
2) I scrutinize the heck out of any new dealer (new to me that is) of ISOM's (or Domestics) before I even think of ordering anything from them.
3) I try to get a lot of feedback from others I know as to how legit a source of (ANY) cigars are. What their experience has been, have they been satisfied, etc...
4) I try to guage the level of experience and knowledge of anyone I talk to about cigars (ISOM or domestic). Not really to see if I know more or have better information, but because there are people out there that are walking treasure troves of information on cigars. Ture BOTL. One guy in our local herf, Kim (he doesn't post here), has introduced me to so many Domestics that I had never considered before that I really owe him a lot.
5) I pay attention to subtleties when I'm around someone I consider an experienced BOTL. People who've been smoking a long time have subtle ways of checking a cigar, a look, a touch, OR even the way they reminisce about a cigar they've smoked. I saw Cashcow (I miss him) nod a particular way when I was discussing the Quintero brand with. I got this gut feeling that he knew a lot about this brand and may have been smoking it for many years before I even got into cigars. That's why I enjoy herfing so much.

BUT, there are still other subtleties I look for.

6) The look, touch, feel, scent, burn, ash, aroma, taste, and finish all are important.
7) The QUESTION. I always ask myself, especially when I'm trying a new cigar if the way it smokes, its flavor, the mood and experience I'm getting from it are what this cigar is all about. I guage if others think it's a good cigar because they have a similar experience when smoking it. This, to me, is a measure of its authenticity
8) Experience! That's an important one because I can't tell you how many fakes and counterfeits I've smoked over the years, and after a while you just don't want to waste any more of your money or time on crap and you develop a good feel for spotting a fake. A true story here: In 1996 I was at a resort in Mexico and bought a few BBF's at a cigar shop (supposedly well thought of) near my resort. Didn't really enjoy smoking them that much and held on to the last couple of sticks. Nearly two years later I was in Jamaica when the proprietor of the resort's duty free shop offered me another BBF. I shirked and declined it much to his surprise. He tried very hard persuading me that the quality of the cigar was good, then he made me an offer. He would give it to me at no charge and if I liked it then to buy the next one (BBF) to smoke. Man, I can still remember that BBF to this day. It was fantastic & really turned me around to this brand. Bought the last of his half box before I left the island. Now here's the good part. I still had two (BBF) cigars left from that trip to Mexico two years before stitting in my humidor, so when I got home I did a comparison. THERE WAS NO COMPARISON!! The cigars from Mexico weren't a belicoso, they were a torpedo size!!! Their wrapper was darker and coarser. I also did a cigar dissection for comparison. The Mexican one had poorer quality leaves, mixed short & long fillers, where the BBF did not have that.

BTW, IMHO, I don't think that Jamaica or Mexico, in general, have very many good sources for ISOM's, so buyer beware.

9) My gut feeling. A vague and very personal guage where I ask if I think I'm smoking an authentic stick.

Poker, I don't think you were questioning if some of us feel we know of legitimate sources, but I think your broad based question is an important one for everyone to ponder, and a good question at that.

I guess my answer to your question is that I really have no (100% reliable) way to verify authenticity of a cigar (even to know if a domestic is of good quality). But I do know if I'm enjoying the cigar I'm smoking, if I think it's the real thing, and if I think I got my money's worth. :u


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## poker (Dec 11, 1997)

Thanks Mo, thats more of the answer I was looking for.


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## Bruce5 (Jul 27, 2003)

My ways of authenticating these smokes were:
1) Discussing the source.
2) Normal box inspection... sticker, seal, code.
3) Tasting... the Montecristo taste is evident.
very similar to the Monte #2.
...
Here is a picture of someone having 5 boxes of them.

http://f2.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/likinwa/detail?.dir=/Alexli&.dnm=b39f.jpg&.src=ph


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## MoTheMan (May 24, 2003)

Great Pictures Bruce, and not just the Edmundos.
How the heck did you find these?

MoTheMan


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## Bruce5 (Jul 27, 2003)

Mo, us less tenured primates still can have something up our sleeves...
besides lots of hair.
....
Once on the link, click the "next" button to see add'l pictures
of the Edmundo box.


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## MoTheMan (May 24, 2003)

I'm not sure that the Cohiba Exquisitos came in varnished boxes back in '91 (some of the LLG's out there may want to correct me on that), but I do remember that the Cohiba line used to be Cellophaned for some time.

Geez that guy has a lot of cigars. Nice collection; one that I'd like to emulate someday.

MoTheMan


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## Matt R (Dec 12, 1997)

All those cigars are for sale, if you have the dough.  

As for the Edmundos.... no idea, though I do know that some people were able to sample them in Havana during the Festivale and prior to that. I would look real close at vendors claiming to have many boxes to sell. It is not beyond the realm of reality though for some retailers to have a small number of boxes. All it really takes is for them to have an inside track to someone within Habanos SA. Even at that though, the reviews I have been hearing are not very good and they have been coming from people who are very experienced in Havanas.


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## IHT (Dec 27, 2003)

off topic: i noticed in that link that all the boxes are full. 
does this guy NOT smoke cigars, but just collect them?


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## Brandon (Dec 11, 1997)

What I want to know is why folks are going nuts over Monte's, that are going to be regular production cigars.


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## Fredster (Jan 26, 2004)

I'm with you Brandon. I love Monte's,but why rush to get them. I've never had one young that smoked great. I'd rather wait till they are launched everywhere, and get some with a few months age.


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## Matt R (Dec 12, 1997)

IHT said:


> off topic: i noticed in that link that all the boxes are full.
> does this guy NOT smoke cigars, but just collect them?


He is a retailer. Those boxes are either for sale or have been sold. And no, I won't tell you who he is. LMAO!!!


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## poker (Dec 11, 1997)

[email protected]


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## jimmy (May 1, 2003)

Matt R said:


> He is a retailer. Those boxes are either for sale or have been sold. And no, I won't tell you who he is. LMAO!!!


matt-
can you tell us who that retailer is please?



go flyers!
jimmy


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## Matt R (Dec 12, 1997)

Nope.. but if you guys want some of that stuff, let me know. I only charge 30% over what he does. :z


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## DaveC (Sep 4, 2003)

:r 

i am in for 12 boxes


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## UpInSmoke (Apr 21, 2004)

It's like Bruce said, the taste won't lie. Of course, checking the boxes/seals/stamps/bands and the appearance of the cigars would definitely help verify authenticity as well.

Some early shots from April 20:
Photo #1
Photo #2
Photo #3


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## Barrythevic (Jan 1, 2000)

Deem said:


> Poker, didn't the LCDH in TJ have the Siglo VI's before the official release for an event? The box Barry bought? Not sure the exact date and if it was before official release though.


What happened with my box of Sig VI's is this:

Gordon, myself and several other people were invited to the LCDH in TJ for a sample tasting of the new Sig VI several months before the official release. They were hand delivered by Manuel Garcia, VP of Habanos SA along with the North American launch of the Quantanamera line of cigars.

We were asked what we thought of the new cigars and the Sig VI.

Several months later, there was the grand reopening of the only official LCDH in TJ. At that event Manuel Garcia again hand carried from Cuba the first 3 boxes officially launching the Sig VI in North America. This was several weeks after the official launch in Europe. I got box # 1, which Manuel graciously signed and dated for me. The cigars have the old bands by the way.

So to wrap up the thread, there are indeed promo sticks of pre release cigars that are legit, but the idea of many full boxes before the release of a new cigar invites questions.

Many others have answered this better than I could have.

Barry


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## poker (Dec 11, 1997)

UpInSmoke said:


> It's like Bruce said, the taste won't lie. Of course, checking the boxes/seals/stamps/bands and the appearance of the cigars would definitely help verify authenticity as well.


I love this topic & debate 

While I agree 100% with the claim "the taste wont lie", again I ask the question, "what are you comparing it against to qualify authenticity?"
If one were talking about Esplendidos, Montecristo No 2's, Partagas Lusitanias, etc, I would understand with no question to the phrase "the taste wont lie". There are hundreds upon thousands of those out there to compare against!
But back to the Edmundo, considering what seems like only 3-4 places having them, again I ask, what does one compare them to to qualify them as authentic? Compare them to a another Monte? I would think the blend would be different. A RyJ Churchill & an RyJ Prince of Wales have different blends, as does the Punch Black Prince vs the Punch Punch.
Thoughts?


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## seagarsmoker (Jan 1, 2000)

poker said:


> I love this topic & debate
> 
> Thoughts?


My head hurts.... :z


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## Brandon (Dec 11, 1997)

BTW.... I'm not about to go dig through all of my boxes, but I don't remember any, off hand, with the stamp so far off from the center of the box.


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## UpInSmoke (Apr 21, 2004)

*@poker*

The Edmundo is quite similar to the Monte #2 (it's even been suggested that it's the same blend). That should make them pretty straightforward to distinguish from fakes.

I think that a good rule of thumb is this: if everything else about the cigars is legitimate (bands, etc. etc. that I've mentioned before) and the build/texture looks similar to what it's supposed to be then the odds are very good that it's the real deal. As you know, there are very minute details such as the number of field workers on the Habanos warranty seal, the new design of the Monte band, etc. that would not be easy to replicate.

Even if it is your first taste of a given smoke, you would have to run into some very well-made fakes to be fooled.


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## MoTheMan (May 24, 2003)

Great discussion, great pictures. :u 

But I'm not saying anymore here. (LOL)

MoTheMan


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## poker (Dec 11, 1997)

Upinsmoke,

A very fair & logical answer. But given that many of us here are in the US where our local tobacconist dosent have Havana cigar boxes on the shelves to rumage thru & inspect, many are left to make decisions based on the internet.

Given that, Brandon poses a very good question. Memory of my boxes, I cannot recall the Habanos SA burn seal (as Brandon posted) so off center as the one pictured. Granted, Cuba is not known for exacting standards in many cases, _but if this pic was one of a couple to make a decision on whether to buy or not buy, actual product unseen, what would you do?_
I know what I would do, at least for right now


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## cigarking (Jun 5, 2003)

FYI-

I bought my stock( Motecristo Edmundos) from Club Havana in miramar-
Enrique montz and Cid.

Also got the new released Romeo Exhibicion Hermosos # 2 being held in humidor until I brng back next weekend.Got these from Melia Atlantico Hotel 
in their Habanos Cigar store and also Cuaba Diademas. These were still in master cases and I was offered and bought thier entire stock-at least what they had then and thier at the time.

Don't always belive what you read -even coming From Habanos.
Just look at thier new buying guide book of current Cuban Cigars available on the market. They have SLR'S in Tubes. ???? Have been in the cigar business for over 6 years and never seen these or even heard about them, even inquired on how I can get them through my distributor (CIMEX) and they never realized that those even existed.

Montecristo Edmundos JNLMAR04 ( I believe this is new code for Partagas Factory which around 50 percent of all brands are rolled)

La Corona will also be moving in the next few weeks to thier new factory which has doubled in size and taken on another 100 rollers. They will be located near Romeo Y Julieta in Cierro , Havana.So be warned to expect tight cigars coming out from this factory until new rollers get more expierience on the bench. 

Thanks
Damian 
Puro Rey


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## DaveC (Sep 4, 2003)

that's the code on my edmundos.

also i have some SLR Churchills in tubes fyi


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## smokeymo (Jan 1, 2000)

Great thread....just a few comments:

SLR pc's and churchills in tubes have been available in the UK for around 6 years.

I have smoked three Edmundos,two gifted to me in Havana and one in London,they all tasted young/fresh/strong and nothing whatsoever like a Monte 2.Of course it may be just my impression on the flavour but it's strange that all three just struck me as having the same "fresh blend"....too fresh in fact to say what it tasted like but nothing reminded me of a Monte 2.

Yes,some Havana cigar merchants do on occasion receive miniscule quantities of cigars pre launch but there would never be a quantity that could be commercially sold....who would we sell a box or two too? a couple of customers? and then upset a few thousand more? It makes no sense.

What would be the point of Habanos SA doing an exclusive launch in Paris/London/Milan if the cigars are already being legitimately sold a month or two beforehand? That also makes no sense as it is destroying their own marketing efforts and investment.

The Edmundo are not being sold in Havana till after they are being launched in Europe.Enquiries with Habanos have confirmed that the cigars have been made but they are still waiting for the boxes to pack them in.

Edmundo now?.....buyer beware.

Best

SmokeyMo


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## jimmy (May 1, 2003)

smokeymo said:


> Edmundo now?.....buyer beware.
> 
> Best
> 
> SmokeyMo


WOW! that's scary to hear...

jimmy


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## Matt R (Dec 12, 1997)

DaveC said:


> also i have some SLR Churchills in tubes fyi


Don't have any, but have seen them.


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## smokeymo (Jan 1, 2000)

Scary it may well be but having had a meeting with one the Hunters and Frankau directors and been told that there was no way on earth any Edmundos being sold before the Paris launch are legit,one just has to feel it's a buyer beware situation at this stage.

Further thoughts:

Edmundo is a regular production vitola not a limited edition

There will be a lot of product available after they are legitimately launched so what's the point of scrabbling round and paying over the odds at this stage for potentially suspect cigars.

You will have the opportunity no doubt to purchase these cigars from your favorite cigar merchant be they in Europe,Middle East or elsewhere at the correct price for that prevailing market.

These cigars will need time to settle down....smoking fresh puros is generally a disapointing experience IMHO

Best

SmokeyMo


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## Brandon (Dec 11, 1997)

smokeymo said:


> There will be a lot of product available after they are legitimately launched so what's the point of scrabbling round and paying over the odds at this stage for potentially suspect cigars.


.... so one can say, "I have some, and you don't. Neeerneerneeer!"


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## Matt R (Dec 12, 1997)

smokeymo said:


> Scary it may well be but having had a meeting with one the Hunters and Frankau directors and been told that there was no way on earth any Edmundos being sold before the Paris launch are legit,one just has to feel it's a buyer beware situation at this stage.
> SmokeyMo


Probably true, Mitch. But, legit Siglo VIs were around before they were officially launched. Very limited numbers, but they were available. Like Brandon and yourself said though, why risk it when they are at an all-time premium in price right now (legit or not) and are going to be readily available soon? Besides that, I never buy a cigar until someone sends me one first.  
hint hint.. that release date in the UK is coming up soon: )


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## poker (Dec 11, 1997)

smokeymo said:


> There will be a lot of product available after they are legitimately launched so what's the point of scrabbling round and paying over the odds at this stage for potentially suspect cigars.


My point *EXACTLY*


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## MoTheMan (May 24, 2003)

Brandon said:


> What I want to know is why folks are going nuts over Monte's, that are going to be regular production cigars.


Well, the Monte Edmundos were officially released this week so they're now available for more general consumption.

But, I really wasn't expecting to start a big frenzy when I posted my tastings a few weeks ago. Like everyone else, I had heard about this release, even knew a herf who got his hands on a box over a month and a half ago(!), and I was willing to wait patiently till they became abailable and gotten tasting notes on them before I finally thought of buying a box.

Like a lot of the postings on this thread, I wasn't exactly eager to go out & get a full box right away, especially for a cigar that was going to be regular production.

*THEN*, I received an e-mail from a LCDH (a reputable one that others I know have been to, outside the US) that they had them available. Well, call it an impulse buy. Figured the price wasn't outrageous so I sprung for the box. Had a friend who was able to pick it up and bring it with him to the US & ship it to me.

My only regret!? Now that they're becoming more available worldwide, the lowest prices I've seen are some 40% LESS than what I paid!!!!! Whoa! Maybe I shoulda' waited, but hey, I've enjoyed the ones I've smoked, and to me, it's really about the enjoyment of the leaf that counts. :w

MoTheMan


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## Enyafan (Oct 26, 2003)

very true Mo. if you think they are real and enjoy them so much the better. 40 percent more money does hurt me ouchie!


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## MoTheMan (May 24, 2003)

Enyafan said:


> very true Mo. if you think they are real and enjoy them so much the better. 40 percent more money does hurt me ouchie!


True!

It hurts more when you realize that wihile I do like to spend on cigars, I generally consider myself a more prudent spender.


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## kjunge (Jan 8, 2004)

I think the edmundos are available on May 25 here in Germany. Can't wait to give one a try. Will see how they stack up against the 2s.

KJ


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