# Wineador Fan Question... Constant v. Timed



## tmmedic20 (Oct 30, 2011)

Back story!

Today I finally finished out my wineadors modifications. This included a ETC controller (my thermostat was close to 10 degrees off), and a 120mm fan for circulation, on a outlet timer, set to run for 2 mins ever other hour.


The Question.

After some discussion in VHerf, the question was brought up "Why not just have the fans run 24/7?"

My theory on this is... The fan running 24/7 would cause some cigars to dry out. Others have expressed that in the stabilized RH environment that would not be true.

So I ask the general Puff population, which is true and what is your logic behind it?

Thanks in advance
Thomas


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## Fuzzy (Jun 19, 2011)

My not so logical mind says the intermittent use of the fan is best but I have a question. Since the wineador has a fan that runs whenever the cooling unit is on, how often does your wineador run?


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## tmmedic20 (Oct 30, 2011)

Fuzzy said:


> how often does your wineador run?


During the winter.. Almost none at all
During the summer... maybe 2x a day 4-5 mins at a time.

Not enough to give sufficient circulation IMO...


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## Johnpaul (Aug 15, 2011)

I run my extra fan 24/7 as it seems to me that it is best to keep the rh stable from top to bottom this way. with the extra fan turned off their is a few % rh difference from top to bottom. It also helps the rh recover fast after I open the door. I am not sure what the harm could be circulating constantly.


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## SDH619 (Mar 19, 2012)

Not sure if this makes sense to everyone. If the RH is set and stable to say 65% top to bottom, and if the fan runs 24/7 with that RH. How would the cigars dry out.


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## Nathan (May 11, 2005)

My fan runs 24/7 but the only problem I have with it is that the fan acts as a heater in the unit making the compressor cycle on more often, it would not dry out the cigars. With my fan the cooler cycles on average 5 minutes sooner with the fan running than without it running, but the fan makes the humidity jump back to 65% within 90 seconds after the compressor shuts off. My ideal situation would be to set up a controls system that turns the fan on when the compressor is running then leaves it running for another 2 minutes after the compressor shuts off. I had thought of a control system that I could rig up to make work but it would have cost around $100 if I remember correctly, I decided to buy more cigars instead.


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## zvan (Apr 14, 2012)

hey guys, thought I would put my $.02. As a chemistry major I know (or like to think i know :tongue1 a little bit about moisture and wind and things... Fans create a movement of air and that movement of air increases the surface area that is in contact (with your cigars in this case) in any given amount of time. So this is how wind can cool things off quicker than it would without wind. It increases the surface area of the air molecules that can effectively absorb some of that heat energy rather than no wind and having the same air molecules sitting around on the object.

Now this works similarly for humidity. Air can obviously hold moisture and that in fact is the crude definition of humidity. When we increase the amount of air touching a cigar in any given amount of time that cigar will either gain or lose water from/to the air faster than without the fan. HOWEVER in this case the windedor has a pretty much constant humidity and temp level. This means that if a cigar is at 65% humidity and the air around it is also at 65% humidity you are in equilibrium and therefor no net change of water vapor will occur!

So here's the bottom line (according to my theory of course) leaving a fan on will in no way dry out a cigar if the environment has a stable RH. In fact having a fan on all the time will most likely bring your cigars either up or down to your environmental RH QUICKER than without them. So having the fan on all the time may in fact be a good idea! The only problem i can see happening with this is if you have an extremely dry cigar and you put it in the winedor and maybe the fan makes it go up in humidity to fast and swells and splits it.

Again this is my theory and it makes sense to me but may be complete nonsense. Anyways thanks for reading and i hope it helped!!


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## Johnpaul (Aug 15, 2011)

Nathan said:


> My fan runs 24/7 but the only problem I have with it is that the fan acts as a heater in the unit making the compressor cycle on more often, it would not dry out the cigars. With my fan the cooler cycles on average 5 minutes sooner with the fan running than without it running, but the fan makes the humidity jump back to 65% within 90 seconds after the compressor shuts off. My ideal situation would be to set up a controls system that turns the fan on when the compressor is running then leaves it running for another 2 minutes after the compressor shuts off. I had thought of a control system that I could rig up to make work but it would have cost around $100 if I remember correctly, I decided to buy more cigars instead.


I don't know what kind of fan you are using but standard 12v dc computer fans usually run on less than one watt and are very efficient so the amount of heat normally generated by them is usually negligible at best.


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## TKE174 (Nov 19, 2011)

I look at this way in my largest desk top which was a 300 count there was no fan. Rh stayed stable. I now have a wineador Rh 63% as of this AM with rain outside the KL is doing its job I have not plugged it in because temps in shed remain at 68 degrees. The micro environment is stable thus you have achieved your goal, circulating air is fine because its the same Rh as long as you have no outside factors where you are adding or subtracting moisture.


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## Mante (Dec 25, 2009)

To be honest I had two computer fans in my wineador & I took them out around 18 months ago. The RH is more stable without them.


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## asmartbull (Aug 16, 2009)

To add to Warrens post, 
I have found that strategically placed beads/kl is most important.


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## Mante (Dec 25, 2009)

asmartbull said:


> To add to Warrens post,
> I have found that strategically placed beads/kl is most important.


 A+. The solution is right there in Al's post.


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## tmmedic20 (Oct 30, 2011)

Little more history to the dilemma...

I have a abundance of KL placed strategically throughout. The problem I have seen is the RH change from top shelf to lower shelf. 

My setup
NewAir 280E
2 Bloodwood front Cedar drawers (Courtesy of Forest)
1 Bloodwood front Cedar Shelf (Courtesy of Forest)
1 Wire rack 
4Lbs of KL places evenly throughout the Cooler 
Contents:
Approx 100 loose sticks
3 Cigar boxes with sticks

Now before the fan this is what I would get:
top shelf range 60-62 %RH
lower shelf 66-68 %RH

Seems ideal CC's on top NC's on bottom everyone happy
Problem is even with that much KL before the fan when I would open the door for more then a few mins it would take up to 4 hours to recover/stabilize (can show you trending logs if you want)

After Fan's
Top Shelf 60-62
Lower Shelf 62-64

Perfect for me, since i like my smokes around 62 NC, and 60 CC (don't ask where I came up with those numbers was a bunch of trial and error and personal preference!)
Door open for a few mins recovery time is give or take an hour.

This is after 2 days of Fans being installed running 2 mins every other hour..

Guess next thing I need to do is run the fan for 24/7 and see what difference it will make. Which will require me devising a device that will direct the air so its not blowing straight onto any single cigar related object.

Thanks for all the great input guys.


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## tmmedic20 (Oct 30, 2011)

FYI.... I know that none of this truly has a HUGE impact on the care of my cigar (They are tougher than we give them credit for), but I like to experiement. To see the whys and hows of things. Just the scientific perception I take in most things in life coming out of me.

The RH in my wineador is stable and appropriate, the fan thing is just fun to mess with!


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## Mante (Dec 25, 2009)

Solution: Open the wineador, take out what you want & close the door. Why is this a scientific experiment? Common sense is your friend here as a wineador is just a big assed humidor with temp control. If I opened a desktop for more than a few minutes and it took "hours" to recover I would question my RH control no matter what device or medium you choose to use.



> the fan thing is just fun to mess with!


 I have to ask why you posted this thread given your intent.


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## tmmedic20 (Oct 30, 2011)

Tashaz said:


> I have to ask why you posted this thread given your intent.


When I explained my setup to some folks in Vherf, the fan thing was called into question. Just wanted the general populations thoughts on it.


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## Mante (Dec 25, 2009)

All is good then but there is a vast difference between the open forum & vHerf. You have a valid question in your original post, it has been answered many times already on this forum.


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## sum12nv (Aug 22, 2011)

Subscribing.. I just received my newair aw280e yesterday and have been reading anything to do with wineadors since I ordered it. It will be awhile until I receive my drawers and get everything setup but ive really been contemplating adding fans. I'm glad this topic came up.


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## Nathan (May 11, 2005)

Johnpaul said:


> I don't know what kind of fan you are using but standard 12v dc computer fans usually run on less than one watt and are very efficient so the amount of heat normally generated by them is usually negligible at best.


I have a 120mm AC fan and it definitely adds a significant amount of heat. If I were to leave the fan running and the compressor off all night it would be well above ambient temp in the morning. Also like I said the compressor cycles 5 minutes earlier with the fan on. Some of that could be due to the increase in heat transfer from the surroundings because of the air moving around in the unit but the heat from the fan certainly contributes.


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## Johnpaul (Aug 15, 2011)

Nathan said:


> I have a 120mm AC fan and it definitely adds a significant amount of heat. If I were to leave the fan running and the compressor off all night it would be well above ambient temp in the morning. Also like I said the compressor cycles 5 minutes earlier with the fan on. Some of that could be due to the increase in heat transfer from the surroundings because of the air moving around in the unit but the heat from the fan certainly contributes.


Get rid of the AC fan and go with this and that problem would go away... Newegg.com - Vantec Stealth 120mm Double Ball Bearing Silent Case Fan - Model SF12025L


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