# Dunhill - worth the price?



## ChronoB (Nov 4, 2007)

I currently have a Peterson system pipe and a Bjarne Nielsen pipe. To the best of my knowledge they aren't "cheap" pipes; both have good reputations. My question is this: is a $350 Dunhill going to smoke any better/different than a $100 Bjarne? Cupojoes has Dunhill Rubybarks on their site, and those pipes look fantastic. But I can't justify the price (to myself or my wife) without the pipe being an upgrade in quality. Is there a real difference?


----------



## dogsplayinpoker (Jan 23, 2007)

There are way too many "ifs" to whether one pipe smokes better than another. I will say that Bjarne makes a solid product. Sometimes I have problems with the finish-work, mainly aesthetic, but the end result is normally a good buy for the buck. 
I have had three Dunnies and ALL have been excellent smokers and expertly constructed. I went the estate market for 2 and have 1 new. 
Will it smoke better? A Dunhill will most likely smoke like a champ from the start but to say it will smoke better would be a leap. If a pipe smokes great is largely dependent on you, the smoker. How well you break it in. How often you clean it. What you smoke in it.
Is it worth $250 more than a Bjarne? In my very humble opinion, no.
If you can find a Dunhill in the $200 range(possibly estate) that is the way I would go.


----------



## IHT (Dec 27, 2003)

http://www.clubstogie.com/vb/showthread.php?t=59805&highlight=dunhill

me, i'm a cheap fluck. i've found some of my cheap fluckin pipes smoke excellent. i've got a couple pipes that are over $100 in worth that don't smoke worth a poo.
there are some that feel a dunhill is well worth whatever you pay, re-sale value, etc, etc.
i may change my tune though. if you like it, and it smokes well, then it's worth it.

edit: lol... there's more links to other topics in the topic i linked to.


----------



## ultramag (Aug 23, 2007)

I'm pretty new, but the best answer I think I have saw to this popular question was, " You just have to buy one and see if it's worth it to you."


----------



## Big T (Dec 8, 2006)

No question that Dunhill make nice pipes, but whether or not they are worth the money is a long-standing debate. The general consensus is that you are definitely paying a premium for the name. If you can find a good deal on an estate, that's probably the best way to go.

In fact, we had this discussion the other night at the Herf. Come on Pipeyeti, I'm waiting for you to chime in on this one!


----------



## pipeyeti (Aug 22, 2007)

The answer is no it will not smoke that much better than your pete or any of your other pipes. If you are looking for a pipe to buy thats in the 350 range there are so many pipes out there that will smoke better than any dunhill. Look at north american carvers, Brian Ruthenberg or Rad Davis and others Now thier pipes will smoke better. Big T saw some of the pipes I make And I will say for sure that they will smoke better. Oh can you tell I am not a big Dunhill fan? I have owned 6 of them thru the years and each smoked no better than some 50 dollar pipes I own. I always wanted a Dunhill thats why I kept buying them, telling myself each time that I just got a bad one. After six bad ones I gave up.


----------



## JPH (Jun 30, 2006)

I like my pipes to be under $100...

I have however smoked some really expensive pipes....they sure smoke sweet... I say if you can aford it it's probably worth it...but I'm not overextending myself for one as i do with cigars...

edit: and i want to add that the expensive pipes have a nice re-sale value....


----------



## ChronoB (Nov 4, 2007)

Wow, seems to be a great deal of debate on this. Far more than I considered there would be.



pipeyeti said:


> If you are looking for a pipe to buy thats in the 350 range there are so many pipes out there that will smoke better than any dunhill. Look at north american carvers, Brian Ruthenberg or Rad Davis and others Now thier pipes will smoke better .


I believe you, Pipeyeti, but I'm curious as to why those pipes or any pipe in that range smokes better than another. Why does a Brian Ruthenberg pipe smoke better than a Dunhill? Bettter briar, better carving, etc?


----------



## DubintheDam (Jun 5, 2007)

From what I've read, they should smoke very well, with a small chance that they won't, but you're paying at least $100 just for the name, you're paying $100 for the probability that it will be a good smoker (quality control and maker's knowledge) that puts the pipes' actual worth at about $150 and for $150 you could pick up a real nice Parker (by Dunhill) or a Stanwell.

I do not think it will be worth the $350 in my inexperienced opinion. I worked out the average I have paid for my pipes (20) and it comes to about €55-60, which translates to about $70-80 in real buying terms.

At $150, why don't you go for the CLUBSTOGIE forum pipe, I hear they're still taking orders.


----------



## croatan (Mar 23, 2005)

I'm pretty sure I've stated my opinion in previous threads, but I'll say it again. Dunhill makes nice pipes. Will they smoke "better" than comparatively-priced pipes? Probably not. Will they smoke better than most cheap (under $100) pipes? Definitely. If you want a Dunhill pipe, then buy one. I have a couple. I like them very much. Do I plan to buy more? Not right now. I'm happy with the ones I own (they also have more sentimental meanings to me aside from just being Dunhill pipes), but there are many other pipes out there right now that I'd rather have than _more_ Dunhills.

I look at Dunhill pipes like I look at Rolex watches. They aren't the best bang for your buck by any means, but a lot of folks swear buy them, and if you want one, then get one. If you don't like it for some reason, you can always sell it and not lose too much money.


----------



## pipeyeti (Aug 22, 2007)

Better engineering, No gaps at the bottom of the mortise tennon junction. A draft hole drilled around 4mm a nice button and button end draft holejuction. All of those things the attention to all the small details are what make the difference. Not wood not graining its the mechanics of the pipe. I have made pipes for myself with a cheap 2$ block of briar I got on close out from a pipemakers supply. Used all of the mention things and the pipes smoke fantastic.


----------



## ChronoB (Nov 4, 2007)

Considering the controversy, I'd be more intersted to know what people own in the $300 range, or what you'd go buy if you had $300.


----------



## Mad Hatter (Apr 8, 2007)

ChronoB said:


> Considering the controversy, I'd be more intersted to know what people own in the $300 range, or what you'd go buy if you had $300.


I'd buy a couple of nice Pete's or maybe a new Nording or a nice Meer


----------



## American Psycho-Analyst (Aug 14, 2007)

ChronoB said:


> Considering the controversy, I'd be more intersted to know what people own in the $300 range, or what you'd go buy if you had $300.


I'd buy more Dunhills. Every Dunhill that I own is far superior to the Petersons, the Sasienis and the Stanwells that I own in regards to the dryness of the smoke, the ease of the draw, the seeming inability of the briar to overheat etc. I've been inundated with negative tripe about Dunhill since I began to smoke slightly more expensive pipes, but, personally, I've never experienced anything but quality and success with this brand.


----------



## ChronoB (Nov 4, 2007)

American Psycho-Analyst said:


> I'd buy more Dunhills. Every Dunhill that I own is far superior to the Petersons, the Sasienis and the Stanwells that I own...I've never experienced anything but quality and success with this brand.


Strongest vote so far for Dunhills.

No one has mentioned Ashton pipes. Worth the dough?


----------



## Bruce (Dec 31, 1999)

I had around 15 Dunhill at one time. Now I am down to 2.
IMHO, for $300 and under, you can score a pre-trans Barling which again IMHO a better smoking pipe and has a bit of "cool factor" mystique about them.

One of my favorite English pipes (for English blends) is an old pre-trans Barling Billiard with a saddlebit stem. Actually, this is a pre-war Barling. Bought it for $140 at a pipe show.....smokes like a dream!


----------



## bonggoy (Mar 9, 2006)

ChronoB said:


> Considering the controversy, I'd be more intersted to know what people own in the $300 range, or what you'd go buy if you had $300.


I will put the 300 towards a downpayment on a carved Roush 

In th 300 range, I would go for a Ruthenberg, Rad Davis or a John Crosby.


----------



## DubintheDam (Jun 5, 2007)

bonggoy said:


> I will put the 300 towards a downpayment on a carved Roush
> 
> In th 300 range, I would go for a Ruthenberg, Rad Davis or a John Crosby.


Ruthenberg pipes, very nice, just checked then out, nice classic styles:

http://www.briarart.com/

A lot of pipe for $300.


----------



## Mister Moo (Sep 8, 2005)

Totally inexpert opinion here.

$350? For that a Dunhill is a $200 dot and a $150 pipe. If you're trying to justify a $350 price _for a better smoker_ then pick two (count 'em, TWO) CS Pipe Forum jobbies by Mark Tinsky. You won't have to wonder how they smoke. Why not run a poll among people who have smoked the forum pipe, asking:

WHICH WOULD YOU PREFER?

1/ea $300 Dunhill that I don't know how it'll smoke; or
2/ea $150 Tinsky forum pipes that are known spot-on (except for IHT's).

3:1 smarter smokers everywhere will take the Tinsky(s).

However, _if what you really want is a white dot_, get the Dunhill. There is nothing wrong with coveting the dot. Hey! I have a TAG/Heuer gold case watch and I really like it - been wearing it daily for 17 years, but it keeps EXACTLY the same time as a $22.99 Timex at Walgreens.

And, speaking as a fiscal conservative, if I had to justify non-investment pipe price vs. quality to someone other than myself or my CPA, I'd probably be rubybarking up the wrong tree.


----------



## The Pirate (May 20, 2007)

And now for a different point of view with no disrespect to pipe carvers, big buck pipes, and the people that like them. If you are talking about the smoking quality of the pipe, a Dunhill will smoke no better that a corn cob. Price has little to do with the way a pipe smokes. Proper drilling and fitting do.
I have some pipes that I paid as little as $3. They are fantastic smoking pipes. I have a hand carved pipe that my wife bought me for Christmas in 1976. The cost was was over $400. It smokes like a dog turd dipped in gorilla urine. It has a hot spot that will some day burn through if I ever decide to smoke it regularly. Every once in a while I fire it up just to remind myself that a big investment in a pipe is a very bad idea. It works everytime! Pipes are not a good financial investment either, especially when you consider the declining number of pipe smokers. In twenty years you may not be able to recover 1/4 of your investment. If you are looking from and investment perspective, put your money in a good long term cd.
I have found some wonderful old pipes on Ebay. Old Custombilts, Marxman, and even Wally Franks. These older pipes, from what I have read, were made when better grades of briar were available for all pipemakers. The better and aged briar makes for a great smoking.
If you just want a beautifully carved pipe just because you want one, that is another story. If you think it will make you happy, get it. It is really a personal decision, and one that can be made by you alone.
Ken


----------



## ChronoB (Nov 4, 2007)

Mister Moo said:


> Totally inexpert opinion here.
> 
> $350? For that a Dunhill is a $200 dot and a $150 pipe. If you're trying to justify a $350 price _for a better smoker_ then pick two (count 'em, TWO) CS Pipe Forum jobbies by Mark Tinsky. You won't have to wonder how they smoke. Why not run a poll among people who have smoked the forum pipe, asking:
> 
> ...


Where can I see/get more info on the forum pipe?


----------



## madurofan (Sep 8, 2005)

Smoke what you like, like what you smoke.

I've got a few Dunhills, they smoke very well. So do my Ser Jacs, Tinskys, Maestros, etc.


----------



## pipeyeti (Aug 22, 2007)

madurofan said:


> Smoke what you like, like what you smoke.
> 
> I've got a few Dunhills, they smoke very well. So do my Ser Jacs, Tinskys, Maestros, etc.


Best reply yet:tu


----------



## ultramag (Aug 23, 2007)

ChronoB said:


> Where can I see/get more info on the forum pipe?


Here is a link to the forum pipe:

http://www.clubstogie.com/vb/showthread.php?t=82391&highlight=forum+pipe

Plenty of pictures and comments throughout that thread.:tu

I haven't smoked alot of the big name pipes our more experienced members are talking about in this thread, but I can say the Mark Tinsky forum pipe is beautiful and well made. Fit and finish is top notch I think, and it was the first pipe I owned that showed me what a was meant when someone says a pipe smokes good. I love my Tinsky!


----------



## Kayak_Rat (Nov 28, 2005)

The Pirate said:


> And now for a different point of view with no disrespect to pipe carvers, big buck pipes, and the people that like them. If you are talking about the smoking quality of the pipe, a Dunhill will smoke no better that a corn cob. Price has little to do with the way a pipe smokes. Proper drilling and fitting do.
> 
> Would it not be safe to assume that the custom made or higher end pipes have more effort put into them? After all, Dunhill has been around forever. Something they are doing is right.
> 
> ...


Please see above.


----------



## American Psycho-Analyst (Aug 14, 2007)

Good posts, everyone. Interesting little discussion here....


----------



## dayplanner (Dec 11, 1997)

The Pirate said:


> And now for a different point of view with no disrespect to pipe carvers, big buck pipes, and the people that like them. If you are talking about the smoking quality of the pipe, a Dunhill will smoke no better that a corn cob. Price has little to do with the way a pipe smokes. Proper drilling and fitting do.
> I have some pipes that I paid as little as $3. They are fantastic smoking pipes. I have a hand carved pipe that my wife bought me for Christmas in 1976. The cost was was over $400. It smokes like a dog turd dipped in gorilla urine. It has a hot spot that will some day burn through if I ever decide to smoke it regularly. Every once in a while I fire it up just to remind myself that a big investment in a pipe is a very bad idea. It works everytime! Pipes are not a good financial investment either, especially when you consider the declining number of pipe smokers. In twenty years you may not be able to recover 1/4 of your investment. If you are looking from and investment perspective, put your money in a good long term cd.
> I have found some wonderful old pipes on Ebay. Old Custombilts, Marxman, and even Wally Franks. These older pipes, from what I have read, were made when better grades of briar were available for all pipemakers. The better and aged briar makes for a great smoking.
> If you just want a beautifully carved pipe just because you want one, that is another story. If you think it will make you happy, get it. It is really a personal decision, and one that can be made by you alone.
> Ken


Wow. Just wow. I think you may have just treated us all with what has to be the most idiotic post ever to grace the pipe boards. Lemme get this straight, all high end pipes are crap because of one bad semi expensive pipe you bought 30 some years ago? That one shit pipe is the benchmark for which all expensive pipes should be judged  On top of that brilliant conclusion, your saying that a 3 dollar drug store pipe will smoke just as well a high end pipe? I'm guessing you've never actually smoked a Dunhill, or a Roush, or any high end pipe before. As for the investment portion of your post, do you actually look at pipe auctions? Mid to high end pipes really aren't going down in value, and tobacco tins are only goin up. Good lord man, I need to give myself a few seconds to recover from the IQ drop I just suffered from reading that whole post :hn

Anyways, Dunhills are good pipes. A bit overpriced I feel, but they smoke well enough(and certainly better than a cob :tu). And they hold their value!


----------



## American Psycho-Analyst (Aug 14, 2007)

_Anyways, Dunhills are good pipes. A bit overpriced...._

And herein lies one of the chief pleasures to be obtained from Dunhill collecting: consistently searching the web and various B&Ms across the country you will, invariably, find excellent deals on good, estate Dunhill pipes. When you get that classy Dunnie and smoke it, you can say to yourself... "Wow, after all that searching, I found a goddamn steal on this cool-smoking pipe, that, if were to want to, I could immediately auction off on Ebay for more than I paid for it...."


----------



## dayplanner (Dec 11, 1997)

American Psycho-Analyst said:


> _Anyways, Dunhills are good pipes. A bit overpriced...._
> 
> And herein lies one of the chief pleasures to be obtained from Dunhill collecting: consistently searching the web and various B&Ms across the country you will, invariably, find excellent deals on good, estate Dunhill pipes. When you get that classy Dunnie and smoke it, you can say to yourself... "Wow, after all that searching, I found a goddamn steal on this cool-smoking pipe, that, if were to want to, I could immediately auction off on Ebay for more than I paid for it...."


Indeed p


----------



## ChronoB (Nov 4, 2007)

Well, I don't know about anyone else here, but I buy pipes to smoke, not to auction. And a $400 pipe should only be an investment in the sense that you'll get 20, 30, 40 years out of it. In my research I've found that many $400 plus pipes appear to be expensive more from odd design (depending on your preference) or exclusivity (one guy makes a hundred pipes a year).

Now, I find the idea that a drug store briar or one I make myself being as good as a $100 or higher priced pipe is simply hyperbole. Briar quality is either important or it's not, and I'm hard pressed to think it is not. Nor is briar the only factor. If it was we'd all be pipe makers because scooping out bowls and drilling holes is not hard.

One assumes the combination of premium briar _and _premium craft yields a premium pipe, regardless of price. I'm sure there are sub-$100 pipes out there that fit that description, and well as over-$300 ones that do. My question to everyone is, what are those pipes in both ranges? Who makes those pipes? How can Dunnill not be making premium pipes?


----------



## Bruce (Dec 31, 1999)

Chrono....check out the new thread I started....Pulvers Briars has some really nice English pipes at good prices. Heck, there's even a Dunhill that I thought of buying myself.


----------



## The Pirate (May 20, 2007)

carbonbased_al said:


> Wow. Just wow. I think you may have just treated us all with what has to be the most idiotic post ever to grace the pipe boards. Lemme get this straight, all high end pipes are crap because of one bad semi expensive pipe you bought 30 some years ago? That one shit pipe is the benchmark for which all expensive pipes should be judged  On top of that brilliant conclusion, your saying that a 3 dollar drug store pipe will smoke just as well a high end pipe? I'm guessing you've never actually smoked a Dunhill, or a Roush, or any high end pipe before. As for the investment portion of your post, do you actually look at pipe auctions? Mid to high end pipes really aren't going down in value, and tobacco tins are only goin up. Good lord man, I need to give myself a few seconds to recover from the IQ drop I just suffered from reading that whole post :hn
> 
> Anyways, Dunhills are good pipes. A bit overpriced I feel, but they smoke well enough(and certainly better than a cob :tu). And they hold their value!


Thank you for your kind words. The $400 pipe was my worst over all experience. Unfortunately there have been others not quite in the $400 range also ( a couple Caminettos and a couple Ben Wades) My point, which you obviously missed, is that spending $400 for a pipe does not in anyway make it a certainty that that it will be a fine smoking pipe (that was the original question). No, I did not have to buy 20 $400 pipes to realize that price has little to do with the smokeability of the pipe. I did not say all expensive pipes were crap. I merely said it was a bad investment. And since there are inexpensive pipes that smoke as well, there is no real advantage to spending that kind of money unless you just want to own that particular pipe.
I did not say the $3 pipe was a drug store pipe. I merely said $3 is what I paid. That pipe is a Savnelli. I have several Savs that cost less than $400 that are fine smokers. The old Custombilts that I collect are fine smoking pipes. Are the hand carved/high end pipes prettier? Yes, for sure. Do they smoke better soley because they cost more? No. I have sevral Boswell pipes that cost a lot less than $400 that are hand caved, nice looking and smoke wonderfully.
As far as the pipe values and resale values go...It is a fact that the number of pipe smokers has been declining since the 1980's. The internet has been a big boost to the pipe smoking community. But oveall, the population of pipe smokers is way down from what it was years ago. As the market declines, and in my estimation, will continue to do so, the number of buyes will decline as well. With all the pipes that will be available and a purchasing segment getting smaller, I think pipes will suffer the usual laws of supply and demand...few buyers, surplus of product= ;ower prices. The one thing that would save this is a decline in the number of had made pipes that are available. 
Now do me the kindness of going back to the first post of the thread and re-read the original question "will a $300 Dunhill smoke better than..."
The answer is still no. It could..but that is not a certainy. The price does not assure the smokeability. There are many inexpensive pipes that will smoke as well. I wish I could be arond in 20 years to see the value of pipes, but that is unlikey as I am already 65 years old. I am not going to rant on you about your personal comments about me. It is not worth a flame war. On the other hand, read my post again and see what I was trying to say. Don't think of me as bashing expensive pipes or people who smoke them. I don't care how you spend your money. It was just my opinion and I think I am as entitled to it as you are to yours...only I won't make any insulting remarks about you or your intelligence.
Ken


----------



## paperairplane (Nov 8, 2007)

How to spend $300 on a pipe? Buy two $25 pipes and $250 worth of premium leaf.

Dunhill or no, the best pipe in the world won't make bad tobacco better.

As for our ability to scoop bowls and drill holes, I would be willing to bet that most people don't want to bother, are scared to try or don't have the tools. 

Check you local University - a pipe can be made from an apple, tin foil, coke can, etc and still achieve the desired result.

There is certainly something to be said for pride of ownership, exclusivity and craftsmanship... I know a lot of people who gladly pay double or triple the price of a Honda to buy a Harley that burns more gas, gets worse mileage and will break down more often simply b/c of brand image.

YMMV


----------



## DubintheDam (Jun 5, 2007)

I just love the way the old Dunhill question evokes so much passion. But as others have done lets bring it back to the source:

"Dunhill - worth the price?"

NO....all the previous posts and other sources sugggest a $350 pipe is probably worth between $200-300 at the most when you look at the new pipes market.

"Is a $350 Dunhill going to smoke any better/different than a $100 Bjarne?"

PROBABLY....all the previous posts and other sources sugggest it should but there is no 100% guarantee of this.

"I can't justify the price (to myself or my wife) without the pipe being an upgrade in quality. Is there a real difference? "

YES, there is almost certainly an upgrade in quality, but again no 100% guarantee of this and it may not translate to actual smoking qualities.

Personally I think filter pipes usually smoke better that non-filter pipes, so I would insist on buying a Dunhill 9mm filter system pipe. Call me Rebel!


----------



## dogsplayinpoker (Jan 23, 2007)

ChronoB said:


> One assumes the combination of premium briar _and _premium craft yields a premium pipe, regardless of price. I'm sure there are sub-$100 pipes out there that fit that description, and well as over-$300 ones that do. My question to everyone is, what are those pipes in both ranges? Who makes those pipes? How can Dunnill not be making premium pipes?


over $300= nearly every pipe company or single craftsman will have pipes that, because of grain/shape/materials, will run in excess of $300. Personally, I love L'Anatra pipes. I have 6 in the $200 to $300 range. All of these pipes smoke great. If they hadn't, I would not have bought more after the first one. 
The more difficult pipe to find would be the "premium" pipe under $100. You will have plenty of folks who have a personal history with a brand and swear by that brand. Peterson has a loyal following. Savinelli and Stanwell have many faithful smokers in their fold(s). 
Do you have a particular brand you like? If you do, and want to buy a higher grade pipe, look at the higher end of their inventory.


----------



## Bruce (Dec 31, 1999)

For what it's worth, here's my suggestion.
Buy a Cavicchi! IMHO this is one of the most underated pipes on the market. The craftsmanship is excellent and the graining of these pipes are always way undergraded.

You can buy an excellent example for well under $300 bucks.
These pipes are excellent smokers right from the begining, they require very little break in.

That being said, if you still lust for a Dunhill, by all means, buy one! If you decide to collect Dunhills, you may want to narrow your focus as there are a multitude of styles, shapes, finishes, ect.
I personally like the Root Briars, but they are usually pricy. What surprises me about the higher grades is that the graining isn't really anything special.....in fact somewhat underwhelming for the price you pay.

At one time I started to collect Dunhill Cherrywoods. Thought this was a cool and unusual shape. I had 6 of them at one time, and I wasn't even close to completing the collection.


----------



## Papichulo (Jan 21, 2007)

Bruce said:


> For what it's worth, here's my suggestion.
> Buy a Cavicchi! IMHO this is one of the most underated pipes on the market. The craftsmanship is excellent and the graining of these pipes are always way undergraded.
> 
> You can buy an excellent example for well under $300 bucks.
> These pipes are excellent smokers right from the begining, they require very little break in.


One of the reasons is the Cavicchi uses the highest grade briar:tu I have been researching them for the past few days. I just cannot afford one yet, but it is on my dream list.


----------



## Ardarel (Sep 16, 2007)

Once in the past I had a Dunhill Shell Briar 4, and an unexpensive Captain Black, both very good smokers!... the latter took some more time to break in.

The Dunhill was much better finished, and had nicer looks. 

Jorge


----------



## mr.c (Apr 8, 2004)

over priced , overhyped... but I want one :r


----------



## dayplanner (Dec 11, 1997)

The Pirate said:


> Now do me the kindness of going back to the first post of the thread and re-read the original question "will a $300 Dunhill smoke better than..."
> *The answer is still no. It could..but that is not a certainy.* The price does not assure the smokeability. There are many inexpensive pipes that will smoke as well. I wish I could be arond in 20 years to see the value of pipes, but that is unlikey as I am already 65 years old. I am not going to rant on you about your personal comments about me. It is not worth a flame war. On the other hand, read my post again and see what I was trying to say. Don't think of me as bashing expensive pipes or people who smoke them. I don't care how you spend your money. It was just my opinion and I think I am as entitled to it as you are to yours...only I won't make any insulting remarks about you or your intelligence.
> Ken


Right. The answer is definetly no. Maybe. Possibly. Most of the time. Some of the time?

There's no sense in arguing with over this. You obviously don't have any high end pipes (except the holy grail of shit it seems), so how would you even know if there was a difference? You don't! That's really the only reason I jumped on your post. I can't stand it when people talk out of their ass!

And, this is just my experience of course, I find that all my high end pipes smoke better than the cheapies I bought when I was new at this. Better briar, better quality, better smoke. Compare a Roush to a Boswell someday, there's quite a difference p

Bruce is dead on, Cavicchi pipes are excellent! Top notch pipes, and pretty reasonably priced still.


----------



## kheffelf (Jul 31, 2006)

carbonbased_al said:


> And, this is just my experience of course, I find that all my high end pipes smoke better than the cheapies I bought when I was new at this. Better briar, better quality, better smoke. Compare a Roush to a Boswell someday, there's quite a difference p
> 
> Bruce is dead on, Cavicchi pipes are excellent! Top notch pipes, and pretty reasonably priced still.


Haven't got the chance to smoke a Cavicchi or a Roush, hopefully own one of the two in my life, but saw the talk about Boswell earlier made by the Pirate and agree with Smitty, not with the Roush but with other pipes made in the USA. Boswells are good 50 dollar pipes. They are nice because they are hand made and cheap but there are so many flaws in his pipes, that is the reason why they are so cheap. I think I have four Boswells and they are all decent pipes, none of them pass a pipe cleaner and all have some sort of rustication to cover up flaws in the briar, I used to think they were great until I realized that if I wanted to spend a little more money I could get a lot better of a pipe. The Tinsky's I have and the one Davis I used to own blew away the Boswells right from the start. I would still recommend a Boswell to someone starting out and wanting to buy a cool first pipe. Cool as in look not exactly cool as in smoking. But something I have really learned while enjoying this hobby you really do get what you pay for.


----------



## The Pirate (May 20, 2007)

carbonbased_al said:


> Right. The answer is definetly no. Maybe. Possibly. Most of the time. Some of the time?
> 
> There's no sense in arguing with over this. You obviously don't have any high end pipes (except the holy grail of shit it seems), so how would you even know if there was a difference? You don't! That's really the only reason I jumped on your post. I can't stand it when people talk out of their ass!
> 
> ...


You are still missing the point. I think your elitest attitude has blocked your objectivity. I had high end pipes. I got rid of the Ben Wade and Caminetto stinkers. I kept the one rotten pipe because it was a gift from my wife. I kept my 1976 Savanelli Anniversary set because they are fine pipes. I also had many mid range and lower priced pipes that did not smoke well and others that did.
No one is ridiculing you for buying high end pipes. No one is saying not to buy high end pipes. 
My whole statement was that a high end pipe may smoke no better than a cob. The price of a pipe does not insure smokeability. High end pipes may not be a good investment financially as far as recovering your money in the future due to the declining number of pipe smokers. That is all. It was all based on my conversations with pipemakers Love Greiger and Lannes Johnson, and Joel Shapiro and articles written by Melvin Schwartz and chatting with tobacco blender Bob Runowski. I like talking to Bob. In my opinion he is one fine blender of burley tobaccos. Strange that two of his favorite pipes would be Carey and Custombilt.
Anyway, I was only trying to offer what I have learned in over 40 years of pipe smoking. Obviously, anything I say will result with only more elitest bull and insults. Usually in a discusion, the one who results to insults as a form of defense and support for thier position is doing so because they think ridiculing those with opposing views adds strength to their opinion. And the funny thing is all you needed was your opinion. I never was trying to dissuade anyone from buying what they want. I was only posting my conclusions based on my experiences. And all you had to say is that you disagree with my point of view.That would have been enough. But you still felt it necessary to be insulting. I have no problem with your position on pipes. Mostly I have a problem with your attitude in expressing it and your general lack of maturity. Sorry I took the time to post. After all, you probably have 3 years experience smoking a pipe and already have everything figured out. You will not be bothered with my posts on this subject any longer. You already know everything there is to know about pipes.
Ken


----------



## IHT (Dec 27, 2003)

opinions and experiences are all we have to go by (and opinions of others whom we trust their judgements).

pirate,
when you made this statement, it took me aback a bit as well.
_"If you are talking about the smoking quality of the pipe, a Dunhill will smoke no better that a corn cob. Price has little to do with the way a pipe smokes. Proper drilling and fitting do."_
now, i totally agree that proper drilling/fitting are what make a pipe smoke well, not the price. no arguements there. the part that sticks out, and is probably what stuck out to everyone is the "dunhill will smoke no better than a corn cob." that could be true, but it goes back to drilling/fitting as well there.

i've got 2 cobs, same shape, same maker. one smokes very well, the other is horrible, i'm about to just chuck it after 1 bowl - i can't get a draw, even while empty. that goes back to construction issues with the pipe, which we all agree on.

anyway, i've never smoked a dunhill, probably never will, won't miss a wink of sleep over it either. that ain't my bag, baby.

i was very much a "cheap pipe snob", if you consider my most expensive pipe was right around $100 until just last year. i haven't been smoking for 40 yrs (i'm only 37), but it's been a decade. 
last year (or was it earlier this year?) sent me some really nice pipes. pipes that i'd never be able to afford. they're beautiful, and drilled properly, so they smoke perfect. better than my others.
i have some, that are very solid pipes, older and thoroughly broken in that want to smoke themselves. i think you could take a basket pipe, drilled properly, and break it in, and it'll be an awesome smoker for years and year.

just a few months back, we got our forum pipes from Mark Tinsky. the first one i got was drilled off a bit, so i sent it back. got the replacement and it's one of the easiest smokers i have, right off the bat, still have only had less than 15 bowls in it. cost me nearly $200.

picked up a Ser Jacapo for 110 at the pipe show - it smokes awesome as well.

having been a cheap pipe smoker, and still am, i can say, through my own expereinces, that my Cavicchi 3c, Rad Davis, Tinsky forum pipe, Ser Jacapo Maxima, they all smoke better than my Sasieni's, my savinelli's, my stanwells, and my mastro de pajas.

there's no doubt that there are some expensive pipes that smoke like crap, and they are probably only expensive because of their looks (shape and grain), and not the quality engineering that needs to be the #1 goal of the pipemaker.

now i know, from my own experience, that some pipemakers prices are well worth the money, but cheaper pipes, when drilled correctly, will smoke on par with those high dollar pipes (if they're drilled correctly).
we could get into draught hole size, etc, but that's personal pipers preference.

thanks for giving us your :2, i appreciate the input from your experience and having you over here - i've seen your posts on other boards as well.


----------



## The Pirate (May 20, 2007)

IHT said:


> opinions and experiences are all we have to go by (and opinions of others whom we trust their judgements).
> 
> pirate,
> when you made this statement, it took me aback a bit as well.
> ...


I admit that the original staement about the cob was not worded in the most clear manner. I in no way meant that every cob will smoke as well as every Dunhill, or any other brand for that matter. I think I did make a corrected statement in later posts. My main point in answer to the original post was that the price of any pipe does not assure smokeability.
My bad experiences with 5 high end pipes have led me to the conviction that I can get a very fine smoking pipe without spending a fortune. So much so that I started collections of pipes that would make most high end smokers turn up their collective noses. I collect Custombilts, Marxman, Wally Frank, and even Duncan Hill. Part of the reason for this collection is the place that these pipes hold in pipe history, along with the my opinion that they are fine smoking pipes.
To go along with this collection, I do have a few more nice more expensive pipes. And as far the pipes made by Tinsky, Downie. et al...I am sure they are nice finely crafted pipes. I am sure there are many happy owners of their pipes. I am not bashing their craft. I was only trying to point out that things other than smokeability influences the purchase of such pipes. Craftmannship, beauty of the grain, stain, and style would be, I think among some of the major influences. But when it comes down to the way a pipe smokes, it becomes the mechanical aspects that take the forefront.
I must not be a very decernive smoker. I really find very few pipes that do not smoke well. And when I do find one it is usually due to an error in drilling and fitting. I find that I get the same fine smoke from my Sav 1776 Anniversary set and my Winslow that I get from my Custombilts and Jake Hackert cobs. I really can determine only good smoking and bad smoking and for some reason the shades of gray escape me. And as I have mentioned, the determining factor between good and bad can almost always be traced back to to a mechanical error.
Thank you IHT for allowing us to have different opinions without resorting to name calling and insults. I guess it all comes down to the old axiom "Smoke what you like...like what you smoke"
Ken


----------



## paperairplane (Nov 8, 2007)

I can't help but quote movies - "It is so choice. If you have the means, I highly recommend picking one up."

For me, that kind of sums this whole thing up... if you can justify a few hundred dollars on a pipe - go to it. This is a hobby and pipes are collectible. I wouldn't necessarily liquidate the 401K for old briar, but like anything else you can probably get out of it what you put into it.

Also, I can't stand not using something. Why have a muscle car in the garage if you're too worried about the paint to take it out and do a burnout once in a while.


----------



## dls (Aug 3, 2007)

This discussion seems to have gotten way out of hand, The Pirate is being attacked for stating his opinion, while others seem to be crying when the same happens to them. I know very little on this subject as I am still very new to this hobby, but it seems to me that a fair number people who own high end pipes are... snob's isn't a strong enough word, ASS HOLES is the one I'm looking for. The operative words there being "a fair number", not all. I just want to emphasize that so that I don't get attacked myself. This board is one that is usually devoid of briar elitism, which is one reason it's such a nice place to visit. Everyone just needs to chill! :2


----------



## DubintheDam (Jun 5, 2007)

I read an article somewhere on the net recently (probably altsmokers or pipe.org, can't remember where sorry) they did the Pepsi/CocaCola test, and found that a lot of pipe smokers could not tell the difference when smoking 'blind' between the big leading names and other cheaper but still well made pipes. The researcher concluded that they're was a major psychological effect happening, often smokers feel their high grade smoke better because they know it is a Dunhill or a Larsen.

Most owners (of whom I am not one) of high grades will say they smoke better, but they should also realize how much their appreciation is effected by this psychological element. Actually some of the impassioned posts suggest this all too clearly.

For me, I'm against pretension in anything, be it in artistic, philosophical or academic matters. I joined this forum because I was turned down by an 'elitist' pipe smoker club here in Amsterdam. I know I will always have far much more enjoyment smoking my corn cob, or my Big Ben budget than any high grade I will ever buy. On principle I would never buy a new Dunhill, second hand perhaps, but only then because I quite like the way they look.


----------



## Raindog (Jul 28, 2007)

Looking at it from a purely logical point of view the main thing affecting pipes smoking nicely is the clear airway of the correct size for the bowl capacity, with no leakages of air.
High price doesn't equal perfect smoking, but the higher the price the more care a maker should take to insure a good well made bore and join. Makers sometimes have bad days, and you might just end up with a bad smoker, but the likelihood is that you won't, and if you do you send it back and they'll get it right. 
If you buy cheap pipes you might end up with a perfect smoker, as it's not difficult to get the bore right. But again, you might get a bad one. And the chances are they won't mend it for you. 
Ya pays ya money and takes ya choice:cb


Jeff.


----------



## Mad Hatter (Apr 8, 2007)

Raindog said:


> Looking at it from a purely logical point of view the main thing affecting pipes smoking nicely is the clear airway of the correct size for the bowl capacity, with no leakages of air.
> High price doesn't equal perfect smoking, but the higher the price the more care a maker should take to insure a good well made bore and join. Makers sometimes have bad days, and you might just end up with a bad smoker, but the likelihood is that you won't, and if you do you send it back and they'll get it right.
> If you buy cheap pipes you might end up with a perfect smoker, as it's not difficult to get the bore right. But again, you might get a bad one. And the chances are they won't mend it for you.
> Ya pays ya money and takes ya choice:cb
> ...


Good post Jeff. Is there a formula/table for figuring the correct size airway vs chamber dimensions?


----------



## mr.c (Apr 8, 2004)

dls said:


> This discussion seems to have gotten way out of hand, The Pirate is being attacked for stating his opinion, while others seem to be crying when the same happens to them. I know very little on this subject as I am still very new to this hobby, but it seems to me that a fair number people who own high end pipes are... snob's isn't a strong enough word, ASS HOLES is the one I'm looking for. The operative words there being "a fair number", not all. I just want to emphasize that so that I don't get attacked myself. This board is one that is usually devoid of briar elitism, which is one reason it's such a nice place to visit. Everyone just needs to chill! :2


I think reverse briar elitism is more common on boards. meaning that all people that smoke anything but cobs are snobs, and that there is no difference between high end pipes and dr.grabows -its just a statice symbol.

bs


----------



## IHT (Dec 27, 2003)

we try to pride ourselves with the "no snob" policy... 
we do have some members who can afford what is considered "the best of the best", but they don't flaunt it to be snobby... they have the cash to pay for works of art that also smoke very well - and if it's what they like, and they roll like that, that's cool. 

if you have just found that you'd prefer to smoke cobs and focus on your favorite tobaccos, that's cool as well. we've all seen that old guy who's smoked the same kaywoodie for 3 decades, full of prince albert... pipe would smoke itself if it walked near a flame...

me, having met a good number of these guys, and/or conversed with them on the phone, you can hear and see the tones of their voices. you can then translate that into how they talk on here...

while some of us were a little surprised at one comment, he's clearly stated in his subsequent posts the same things that the majority of us also state: engineering of the pipe is paramount to a good smoker. it's not "name", it's not "grain"... it's the drilling/fitting of the pipe.

a-holes about it? it may seem that way because you don't hear the tone of their voice, just a smart-ass tone in the typing. i'm guilty of it too.

do i believe that a high end pipe can smoke better than a lower end pipe? yes. now that i have some, yes. 
why do i feel that way? as i said, they're drilled perfectly, the airways are more open to the way i like...
as i also stated, i have some cheaper pipes that will be on par with the high dollar ones... why? they're drilled perfectly, well broken in... 
yes, i could tell if i were blindfolded if i were smoking my own pipes, because i can tell by the ease of draw on the higher grade pipes due to the increased airway size.

i'm the least bit asshole about being a pipe snob. just ask my cheap stanwell (under $20) sitting next to me, that's right next to my estate Sasieni ($20).

bottom line i think we've all said: engineering is the key to a good smoking pipe. i've told many a newbie via PM when they ask, you can get a basket pipe, make sure it's drilled correctly, and it'll smoke just fine.

so, lets keep it civil. we're not discussing politics in the "everything but" forum.


----------



## IHT (Dec 27, 2003)

root, love the color change on your avatar. festive.
:tu


----------



## dls (Aug 3, 2007)

K, perhaps I misinterpreted a few posts. I apologize if I was out of line. There's no doubt in my mind that many (most) people here know far more than I do at this point about "this pipe vs that pipe", and I did not intend to come across as dismissive. I'll keep my mouth shut from now on when senior members are involved 

For the record, I WISH I could afford high-grade pipes, and if I could, I would most certainly, and unapologetically, horde them.


----------



## IHT (Dec 27, 2003)

dls said:


> I'll keep my mouth shut from now on when senior members are involved


no need for that. everyones opinion is their opinion. you have a right to post as well.
and reading "tones" into a post is a problem for everyone until they've heard/met someone to see how they actually talk/type.


----------



## Guest (Nov 13, 2007)

IHT said:


> root, love the color change on your avatar. festive.
> :tu


Odd place to throw that in isn't it Greg?

As for the dialogue of this thread, we're all blowing smoke because really that's what it comes down to. I'm a tobacco guy, for me that's what it is all about, it's the star... As long as a pipe functions to burn tobacco then its a good pipe no matter the price but that's me and that's how i roll.. Indeed...


----------



## IHT (Dec 27, 2003)

Root said:


> Odd place to throw that in isn't it Greg?


just saw you lurkin', that's all.


----------



## Mad Hatter (Apr 8, 2007)

Its nice to have an exchange like this because we can all sit back and hear both sides and gain from both perspectives. I'm with Pirate on a lot of things, but I'm also with Smitty on some things too. I've noticed a lot of high dollar pipes, in addition to being often works of art, are smooth finish and most of the more expensive ones (correct me if I'm wrong) have no filler. Given the inconsistency of briar from what I've read, a pipemaker would have to go through much of the labor process before even knowing if his finished product would be blemish-free. If it turned out not to be so, and there was no way to correct it then it would be back to the ol' drawing board. Finding that perfect piece of briar could be very costly in time, effort and material. Also I'm sure there is a difference in briar density and how it affects the coolness of smoking, which could also be a determining factor as to what was a keeper and what was not.

I've also noticed that the drafthole on my better smoking pipes comes in at the base of the bowl, ending, not at the edge of the bore, but at the bottom. The majority of my Stanwells (I have 7) come in a little higher than do the ones in my Petes (I have 4). If my Stannies go out near the bottom of the bowl, then I'm pissing in the wind trying to relight while the Petes are a go. The drilling on the best smoking Stanny I have wasn't completely followed through, or rather was drilled just a tad too low and so it whistles. I'd love to inspect some of the forum members' "good smokers" to try to find a common link as to what makes them good, but I doubt anyone is going to send me their favorite pipe and I'm not really in the mood for a long, long road trip either. I think I started a thread about this a while back and no one seemed to have any relevant answers. Since I need a new hobby anyway, I think I'll look into pipemaking equipment and leave my dremel on the shelf.


----------



## The Pirate (May 20, 2007)

Now this is a discussion! There are no apoligies needed from anyone and everyone should be allowed to voice thier opininns. Now consider this...Many of us buy pipes over the internet sight unseen..or worse yet, on Ebay. I bought many pipes on Ebay. Some were not as they were represented. Most of them were very nice pipes and smoked very well. Two of my favorites were NIB Wally Frank bent and a NIB Marxman. These were pipes for the 'working man' in their day. I was truly surprised at how well they smoke.
Pipes bought from online shops or known craftsmen are not a risk. If you find a problem,the craftsman will either do an exchange or make a new one. Buying an expensive pipe on Ebay could be a real nightmare. I don't worry to much about the estates I buy because they are not a big money investment. But I think I could get a little concerned buying a high grade estate pipe especially from a seller that I did not know. Has anyone had any sour experiences in this way?
Yeah I know I am stretching the original topic a little, but it does seem to fit the thread.
Ken


----------



## Mad Hatter (Apr 8, 2007)

No. The most money I've spent is for a couple of Pete spigots. I have LJC type money.


----------



## Raindog (Jul 28, 2007)

Hi Madhatter,
if there's a formula for pipe bowl size and bore dimensions for a perfect smoke I haven't seen it yet. 
Some of this could be down to personal taste too. I like a certain resistance to my draw. Others might like to feel they're virtually breathing in a lung of spring air on a mountain top with no pipe within a 5 mile radius! 
Maybe some pipe makers would like to tell us how they came up with the perfect smoker?


Jeff.


----------



## Mad Hatter (Apr 8, 2007)

Raindog said:


> Hi Madhatter,
> if there's a formula for pipe bowl size and bore dimensions for a perfect smoke I haven't seen it yet.
> Some of this could be down to personal taste too. I like a certain resistance to my draw. Others might like to feel they're virtually breathing in a lung of spring air on a mountain top with no pipe within a 5 mile radius!
> Maybe some pipe makers would like to tell us how they came up with the perfect smoker?
> ...


Good call Jeff. BTW, I'm Joe


----------



## Raindog (Jul 28, 2007)

Hi Joe! Good to meet you :tu

Jeff.


----------

