# Cubans at a US Tobacco Shop



## TechMetalMan (Apr 2, 2006)

So I live in Houston TX USA.

There is a small Tobacco shop in the katy area where they will offer you Cubans if they see you in there more than once for cigars.


Anyways, I always hear about how hard they are to get a hold of- so it surprises me that this shop has it. I've seen some of the boxes (which they keep hidden from plain site) and the do say Hecho in Cubana or whatever. They sell for about 18 up.

So here are my two theories:

Houston is close to Mexico and I guess it wouldn't be overly hard to go into Mexico, buy Cubans and somehow smuggle them across the border. I simply assume the owner of the shop does it?

or 

They are fakes.

What do you guys think? How rare are Cubans really?


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## icehog3 (Feb 20, 2005)

Cubans aren't rare. Fake Cubans aren't rare. Not worth the risk, IMHO.


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## Warhorse545 (Oct 16, 2005)

icehog3 said:


> Cubans aren't rare. Fake Cubans aren't rare. Not worth the risk, IMHO.


:tpd:

Stacey


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## vic_c (Sep 7, 2005)

I personally wouldn't buy anything from them Cuban or non-Cuban...when you first start out smoking cigars there is always some idiot lurking in the shadows waiting to sell you the ever mysterious "Cuban cigar"....and 99.9% of the time it is fake.:2


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## TechMetalMan (Apr 2, 2006)

Even with the boxes?

I wouldn't get one because of the price- but maybe I will warn my friend who wants to get one.:sl


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## teeznutz (Jan 17, 2006)

Don't waste your time. They are probably fake!


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## dayplanner (Dec 11, 1997)

Why would you want to buy something illegal from someone you don't know... especially when you also don't even know if they are real? Consider this... you can be busted big time for trying (and/or succeeding) to buy fakes!!! 

Unless you know some of these people real well......... RUN!


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## MiamiE (Mar 5, 2005)

Fake Fake Fake.


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## vic_c (Sep 7, 2005)

TechMetalMan said:


> Even with the boxes?
> 
> I wouldn't get one because of the price- but maybe I will warn my friend who wants to get one.:sl


The boxes don't mean anything...take a look at the counterfeit cigar photos forum on this board.


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## bpegler (Mar 30, 2006)

vic_c said:


> The boxes don't mean anything...take a look at the counterfeit cigar photos forum on this board.


I just came back from the Dominican Reublic, and even there (where there are no laws prohibiting cuban cigars) almost all the "cubans" were fake. I am frankly more worried about buying cigars in general from a merchant who might be dishonest. Beware...


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## Da Klugs (Jan 8, 2005)

Shhhh! Damn you're letting the secret out. Think about it. Cigar shop owners are "plugged in". Like during prohibition, there are countless brave souls risking all for our smoking pleasure.

Shop owners have taken the bull by the horns and developed modern day underground railroads to provide us with our fine Cuban cigars. Some meet up with Northwest pilots late at night in bars for exchanges (trades booze for gars) in dark corners. Some shop owners have friends who know people in the Cuban cigar industry. Brothers or sisters of people who know people who can get us the goods.

Many have banded together and gone to the great length of setting up fake, fake Cuban factories in Miami. Under the guise of rolling fake Cuban cigars they use this front to provide us with "the good stuff".

The true masters have perfected the techniques necessary to avoid detection. Carefully sanding off one or even 2 of the triple caps as to "fool" the unwitting into thinking their cigars are not real Cubans. Taking the stance that the best hiding place is in plain sight, putting glass tops on their boxes... daring the authorities to notice. Such bravado. Many take the brave stance of leaving the cigars in trunks of cars, unhumidified closets, and under counters, and only with a wink and a smile will they share the good stuff with those in the know.

Understand that these folks expect to make a profit. $ 25 - $ 30 per cigar is the norm for Cubans costing $ 8-10. But think of the risk they are incurring. Many times these cigars may have had a tortuous route to get to your B&M so they may look a bit worse for the wear. Fear not. After all why would your local shop go to all this trouble if they were not true lovers of the forbidden leaf.


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## bpegler (Mar 30, 2006)

Da Klugs said:


> Shhhh! Damn you're letting the secret out. Think about it. Cigar shop owners are "plugged in". Like during prohibition, there are countless brave souls risking all for our smoking pleasure.
> 
> Shop owners have taken the bull by the horns and developed modern day underground railroads to provide us with our fine Cuban cigars. Some meet up with Northwest pilots late at night in bars for exchanges (trades booze for gars) in dark corners. Some shop owners have friends who know people in the Cuban cigar industry. Brothers or sisters of people who know people who can get us the goods.
> 
> ...


OK, so I have a serious question. Just what kind of coffee do you guys drink in the morning? I mean, forget the cigars, I want some of that s***.


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## NCatron (Sep 7, 2005)

bpegler said:


> OK, so I have a serious question. Just what kind of coffee do you guys drink in the morning? I mean, forget the cigars, I want some of that s***.


He was probably looking at his new humongidor while typing that, and got a bit giddy and lightheaded.


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## mosesbotbol (Sep 21, 2005)

I know of one merchant in or around Boston who sells/sold Habanos. He has been in business 40+ years, and is a little "out there", but if you want to pay his price, he has them. I personally have never bought one from him, and that last time I saw a box from him was about 8 years, so it's not so uncommon.

There's another store in or around Boston that sells Habanos if you have deep pockets, and I know his are real, so if you want a $35.00 Lusitania, they can be bought. I think you he has to know you, you can't come in asking for Habanos...


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## zamco17 (Mar 24, 2006)

Fake-a-ruski


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## NCatron (Sep 7, 2005)

The Cigar King's Chicago suburb B&M location has it right.

They have the WORST looking fake Cohibas I have ever seen. (Think Cremosa wrapped in a Cohiba band colored by a 2 year old with crayons). But they put them in the bargain bin for $2. Now that's honesty


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## scc135 (Feb 6, 2006)

The B&M I go to also sells fake cohibas for dirt prices. If anything, I'd take a look at the so called "cubans" they're offering just to humor yourself and to see if they're real. You can always find better deals than 18 a stick though.


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## DonJefe (Dec 1, 2003)

I used to get at least one goober a week that would try to sell me Cubans when I had my shop. Should have bought them, I would have an impressive collection of glass top boxes!!:r


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## Suburbahick (Jun 4, 2005)

TechMetalMan said:


> So I live in Houston TX USA.
> 
> There is a small Tobacco shop in the katy area where they will offer you Cubans if they see you in there more than once for cigars.
> 
> ...


Im kinda close to katy... i think


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## Danimal (Jun 6, 2004)

Houston aye? Interesting to know that.


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## PuroBrat (Sep 8, 2005)

This whole thread bothers me. A LOT

Do I think that shop has Fakes? Hell, I don't know, and I am not in a position to pass the judgment. But whether they are, or not, fake doesn't really matter, from a legal standpoint, they are still breaking the law. I don't agree with offering them to any old Joe that has darkened the door twice, but that is their business AFAIC. And as BOTL, it is our responsibility to protect our sources, isn't it?

I know a B&M that sells real ones. For a price that is reasonable. But you have to become a regular, and get to know the owner. After a while he may slip the existence of the secret stash into a casual conversation. If anybody asks him up front, you guys can guess what he would say, right?

But I would NEVER EVER mention the name of this shop, or even the Town it is in. Especially in an open forum. Even if you ask me, I will not tell you, unless you are one of those trusted BOTL that has earned the respect that affords you such inside information. Why will I not tell? Well, if you can't figure that out, then I won't bother trying to explain it.

I wish a MOD would take out the reference to the shops location, just like we would do if it was an On-Line retailer's name up there. After all, that shop owner just might be trying to provide his repeat customers with a nice treat. I wouldn't want to be responsible for getting him in trouble for that.


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## IHT (Dec 27, 2003)

while everyone on here is telling you they're fakes, as they most likely are fakes, they may not be. but what you should be asking yourself (and this guy), why is he asking $18 dollars a piece for them (depending on what they are).

you never know, he may have legit sources, order some in himself on the cheap, then sell them to his "buds" at the shop who don't know any better. all they read is "Cigar Aficionado" and think that, "hey, cubans really do cost $29 each for a churchill - james suckeling even says so in cigar aficionado!" 
and now those boobs with ears think they're getting a helluva deal....

i'm sure someone has said this, but if your local B&M is selling stuff under the table to his buddies (whether real or fake) for inflated prices, what will he do to his patrons he doesn't know very well? what kind of "special deals" are you getting that you don't know about?

if given the option of shopping there or buying strictly online, i'd choose online if you can afford to buy samplers and by the box instead of overpriced singles from the crooked shop owner.


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## moki (Jan 12, 2004)

IHT said:


> while everyone on here is telling you they're fakes, as they most likely are fakes, they may not be. but what you should be asking yourself (and this guy), why is he asking $18 dollars a piece for them (depending on what they are).


Unless the cigars are being sold for approximately double the normal retail price, they are fake (and even if they are double retail in price, they are probably fake anyway).

Think about it for a moment. In the cigar business, the wholesale price that a dealer pays is generally 1/2 what the retail price is. They need this profit margin in order to make any money in a retail business for rent, salaries, taxes, and all of the other overhead involved, not to mention the fact that most smaller cigar shops aren't selling a massive amount of product.

So why would they bother with selling Cuban cigars at all, and risking their business? To make some money. In order for it to be worth their while, they'd have to charge at least the mark up that they do for their legal cigars, which would be to double the price they paid for 'em.

So if they are legit cigars, and they are buying them from trusted vendors, they'll have to charge about double what you see from various vendors, otherwise it isn't worth their while to bother.

They are absolutely not getting these cigars at wholesale prices, so do the math.

The most likely answer is that they are cheap fakes; they may not know they are cheap fakes, but that's what they are. Pick up one or two, and send them to someone who knows that particular Cuban brand well for analysis.


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## Puffy69 (Sep 8, 2005)

All of the above...


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## TechMetalMan (Apr 2, 2006)

Seems that I have bothered quite a few of you guys here- sorry to offend you guys.

However I have not named the shop at all- and there are a few tobacco shops in west houston so...

Anyways- I know that they had some cuban montecristos for 18 and cuban cohibas for around that price as well, not sure what those sell for in the legal market, but if that makes it any easier to decide if they are marking them up way too high.

They seem pretty easy going about it, so perhaps they are fakes, but they seem almost too comfortable about mentioning them.


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## moki (Jan 12, 2004)

TechMetalMan said:


> Seems that I have bothered quite a few of you guys here- sorry to offend you guys.
> 
> However I have not named the shop at all- and there are a few tobacco shops in west houston so...
> 
> ...


In this case, given the scenario, I would call them fakes until proven otherwise.


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## smokemifyagotem (Mar 12, 2003)

Same thing happened to me when I first got into smoking cigars in college. This guy who worked in a shop right off campus told me he had Esplendidos and Monte 2's for $25 a pop. Like an idiot I bought 3 and they were fake. Trust me, DO NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES buy "cubans" from this guy.


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## RJT (Feb 12, 2005)

I agree and disagree with some of what has been said on this thread. I knew a guy that had a shop before that had Cubans. Yes they were very real. Yes they were marked up something awful. However I will say this lets say this guy has a source and buys a box of X that cost him $5.00 a stick. This price is what you would see (if you knew "how to" and a source.) Now, he would sell these same sticks for around $10.00 to $15.00 a stick. There is alot of this that goes on at other shops, cigar bars, private clubs, etc. An Example would be, Las Vegas is full of real deal Cubans that can be had if you know how and where to look. Expect to pay big bucks though. 

With that said, call it price gouging or what you want but he is assuming all the risk so expect to pay a higher price. If people are willing to pay the high prices, then so be it.

Now the fake issue. I see it as they have more risk selling fakes than the real deal. First off, its not like they are a street dealer in Miami selling to some floating trailer park (cruise ship) guys that they will never see again. So why would they risk selling a customer at a store location a fake, only to be found out and someone get pissed and tell the proper authorties. A some what regular customer is less likley to say anything to anyone about his new found pot of Cuban gold he has found. However their is always the risk of getting fakes.

I say if you REALLY must try one and want to buy on from this guy. Buy one or 2 and find you a trusted and wise member to give it the once over for you and see what happens. 

Just my :2 (what ever that is worth) RJT


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## moki (Jan 12, 2004)

RJT said:


> However I will say this lets say this guy has a source and buys a box of X that cost him $5.00 a stick. This price is what you would see (if you knew "how to" and a source.) Now, he would sell these same sticks for around $10.00 to $15.00 a stick.


Right, that's the kind of markup that you'd have to see in order to even *consider* that they might be legitimate.



> There is alot of this that goes on at other shops, cigar bars, private clubs, etc. An Example would be, Las Vegas is full of real deal Cubans that can be had if you know how and where to look. Expect to pay big bucks though.


True. But there are also lots of fakes in Vegas too, and they cost big bucks too. 



> Now the fake issue. I see it as they have more risk selling fakes than the real deal. First off, its not like they are a street dealer in Miami selling to some floating trailer park (cruise ship) guys that they will never see again. So why would they risk selling a customer at a store location a fake, only to be found out and someone get pissed and tell the proper authorties. A some what regular customer is less likley to say anything to anyone about his new found pot of Cuban gold he has found. However their is always the risk of getting fakes.


I disagree. First, the shop would likely get in less trouble for selling misrepresented cigars than they would for selling contraband that is clearly and patently illegal in the USA.

But more importantly, it's very possible that the cigar store has no idea whether the cigars are real or not, and may be passing along fakes unwittingly.

Either way, I do agree with what's been said here. Stay the hell away from buying Cuban cigars at local US cigar shops. They will either be fake, or they will be extremely overpriced.

So why bother?


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## ATLHARP (May 3, 2005)

vic_c said:


> I personally wouldn't buy anything from them Cuban or non-Cuban...when you first start out smoking cigars there is always some idiot lurking in the shadows waiting to sell you the ever mysterious "Cuban cigar"....and 99.9% of the time it is fake.:2


:tpd:

A word of Advice: Avoid! It isn't worth dealing with the trouble.......

ATL


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## MoTheMan (May 24, 2003)

MiamiE said:


> Fake Fake Fake.


*FAKE FAKE FAKE ! !*
Honestly, I've bought what looked like very legit looking Habano sticks from a cigar store in downtown San Diego. Smoked like crap! Absolute fakes!!


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## Roger Miller" (Apr 15, 2004)

TechMetalMan said:


> .....not sure what those sell for in the legal market, but if that makes it any easier to decide if they are marking them up way too high.


Not to put too fine a point on this, but, in the US, there is NO LEGAL MARKET for Cuban cigars.

_____
rm


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## fpkjr (Mar 6, 2006)

vic_c said:


> take a look at the counterfeit cigar photos forum on this board.


That's good advice, go here too.. 
http://www.cigarnexus.com/counsel/counterfeit/index.html

Fpkjr


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