# Remove the tray?



## TheMarlinInLV (Jul 30, 2012)

so i tried a search and didn't really find anything like this question to help me out, if there is something already posted maybe someone can post a link?

Well, I just got done seasoning my humidor and put my sticks into it today. I bought a 4 oz xicar crystals humidification jar and put it in my humidor. BUT, since I put it in below the tray it is a little too large and pushes the tray up a bit...

it closes what looks like completely, and it seems to be holding humidity (only been an hour tho)...so what would you recommend? 

Should I remove the tray and just place the sticks in the bottom portion of the humidor? Leave it? Return the 4 oz and order a 2 oz from online? is the 2 oz jar shorter btw?

also, secondary question...is there any special use for the tray? like is that supposed to be the "on deck circle" you will be smoking soon or just an extra level for more sticks? I put my sticks, only have 18 atm, on the tray since I figured the humidity rises and that would be best for the sticks?

Thanks puff!


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## zephead61 (Apr 18, 2012)

I would return the crystals and get either Boveda packs or Heartfelt beads. They are a much better humidification device and will eliminate your space problem.

The tray is just for keeping your sticks organized/separated. For example, you want to keep your maduros separate from your habana sticks so as they age, you won't have the maduro oils, smell, etc. affecting the taste of your habanos.


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## Bondo 440 (Jul 24, 2012)

- Just load the crystals into a smaller jar. Clear tubes are best
- Your humidity will change after you load your cigars. If your empty humidor was finally RH stable in the first place, do not add more than 20 at a time. 
- Your upper tray RH and bottom RH may differ by about 4 % . Combat this by limiting open time. Also I sort cigars in the top tray leaving 1 vent opening in the middlle of the tray, or 2 shorter openings so the humidification can get to the top. Don't lay a carpet of cigars across the top tray with no way to get humidity to breathe up there. I just went through this with twin new trayed humidors and lower and upper gauges and that is what I discovered. Here's a picture below, ignore the tags, but it was handy and shows the breathe holes and a second hygrometer on the tray on the right during the tests


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## Fuzzy (Jun 19, 2011)

I am with Chuck on this. 

Remove the jar and use HF beads or Boveda packs. The beads can be had in tubes and take about as much space as a cigar. Boveda packs are almost flat and take up very little room.


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## Bondo 440 (Jul 24, 2012)

Totally agree about the separation. Glad you covered that.
I have multiple humidors so separation is not much of an issue. 
LOL as you can see, this photo shows my Bum Cigar section !

Maybe someone can recommend RH % for the Boveda paks?


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## zephead61 (Apr 18, 2012)

Bondo 440 said:


> Totally agree about the separation. Glad you covered that.
> I have multiple humidors so separation is not much of an issue.
> LOL as you can see, this photo shows my Bum Cigar section !
> 
> Maybe someone can recommend RH % for the Boveda paks?


65%


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## TheMarlinInLV (Jul 30, 2012)

zephead61 said:


> I would return the crystals and get either Boveda packs or Heartfelt beads. They are a much better humidification device and will eliminate your space problem.
> 
> The tray is just for keeping your sticks organized/separated. For example, you want to keep your maduros separate from your habana sticks so as they age, you won't have the maduro oils, smell, etc. affecting the taste of your habanos.


Sounds good! Thanks for the information about separation...

I'm going to try and return the crystals and will definitely look for the other products you mentioned...hopefully I can find a local B&M that has them...are water pillows ok? i saw those at the B&M i usually go to.


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## TheMarlinInLV (Jul 30, 2012)

so, some semi bad news for me...

I let the humidor stand for the day...well when I opened the humidor the humidity was 59%! So I panicked, I decided to put a clean, damp washcloth in the humi as well as taking out the tray since it is not likely as air tight as i'd hope...

I plan to leave the overnight and check the humidity when I wake up, hopefully things will have stabilized by then...I plan on going to B&M's around town to look for other alternatives since it does not seem that the size of the 4 oz jar is working...maybe i can find the 2 oz and buy 2 of them or hopefully I can find some Boveda or Heartfelt beads....

Now, the thing Im thinking (wondering) is that I think I will need a lot of whatever I do end up buying considering how dry the climate is here in vegas....should I consider Kitty Litter and maybe spray it with water? Ive tried to read on the KL setup thread and it seems like most people use it to bring DOWN humidity as opposed to raise it, but from reading it does seem like wetting the KL can be effective...am i on the right track with my understanding of KL? I think I may like KL more because of the price point, and me thinking I'll need a lot of whatever I get and would rather get the most cost effective thing...but ultimately the product that will most effectively raise and maintain the humidity is the most important factor of course.

thanks...


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## zephead61 (Apr 18, 2012)

TheMarlinInLV said:


> so, some semi bad news for me...
> 
> I let the humidor stand for the day...well when I opened the humidor the humidity was 59%! So I panicked, I decided to put a clean, damp washcloth in the humi as well as taking out the tray since it is not likely as air tight as i'd hope...
> 
> ...


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## Bondo 440 (Jul 24, 2012)

LOL OK slow down Sal. Check a few things here.

1- This washcloth is on a tray, not just laying on the bottom of the humidor, right ?
2- The washcloth is moistened with only Distilled water, right? if it's tap water, get it out of there.
3- Removing the tray for a while is OK, but if you replace it three days later, you're RH will sink temporarily as the cedar gets treated again. Why not just leave it in, and treat with the rest of the unit? 

No big deal with 52% since there are no cigars in there to get "shocked" . I am not even confident your Hygrometer is correct.
Do you know the testing procedure? 

I use an open shot glass with distilled water to treat / season a new Humidor. Washcloth's can harbor bacteria


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## Bondo 440 (Jul 24, 2012)

TheMarlinInLV said:


> Sounds good! Thanks for the information about separation...
> 
> I'm going to try and return the crystals and will definitely look for the other products you mentioned...hopefully I can find a local B&M that has them...are water pillows ok? i saw those at the B&M i usually go to.





zephead61 said:


> so, ....................
> 
> You can only buy the Heartfelt beads from Heartfelt Industries, which is located in Nevada. Not sure if they have a walk in store, but they ship really fast. https://www.heartfeltindustries.com/
> I personally think they are the best way to go, as they not only release moisture, but absorb it as well, keeping the RH perfect.
> ...


Yes Marlin, stay away from Tidy Cat !!


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## Tman (Sep 12, 2010)

I would start from scratch:

1. Season your humidor. Do it properly. http://www.cigarforums.net/forums/v...5096-how-herf-n-turf-seasons-new-humidor.html

2. You CAN use heartfelt beads Heartfelt Industries, Heartfelt Cigar Humidor Humidity Beads, Heartfelt Beads, Humidors, Quality Cigar Accessories or you can even use KL.

some info you want to read up on KL before you use it:
http://www.cigarforums.net/forums/vb/cigar-accessory-discussion/276966-kitty-litter-set-up.html
and make sure it is *unscented * silica gel like the one they sell here: ExquisiCat® Crystals Fragrance Free Cat Litter - Litter - Litter & Accessories - PetSmart

3. If you still have trouble maintaining RH% since you are in a really dry place or your wooden humidor is leaking humidity (as most cheaper humidor does), you can try using one or two 2 oz crystal gel. If you use two, put one on top and one on bottom. The reason why people don't like them is that a) they go above 70% RH if you're not careful b) they release moisture, but very poor at absorbing them.


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## TheMarlinInLV (Jul 30, 2012)

Bondo 440 said:


> LOL OK slow down Sal. Check a few things here.
> 
> 1- This washcloth is on a tray, not just laying on the bottom of the humidor, right ?
> The cloth is just damp and it is on top of a plastic baggie, so there is no contact with any wood. Ive read that would be a definite no no.
> ...


Zephead, I did the dollar bill test when I bought it and it was good according to what I've read. I also dropped the lid and it makes the woosh sound as opposed to a crack/smack when it closes. So because of that I thought it was a humidor with a good seal.

Tman, in my novice opinion I don't think I need to season it again. I read the herf n terf seasoning link and pretty much did what he did. Things went south when I left the xicar crystals in it alone...

Thanks for the replies everyone!


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## zephead61 (Apr 18, 2012)

When you replace the rag with the sponge, and you should, make sure you buy a brand new sponge and use it for your humi only. Most of all, be patient, don't freak out (it's just a wooden box), sit back and enjoy a smoke!


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## Bondo 440 (Jul 24, 2012)

TheMarlinInLV said:


> ....................
> Thanks for the replies everyone!


Sounds good. Saw your message earlier and it was wiser to just run that by you than have a disaster later. 
Looks like you know what you're doing. Let us know how it turns out.


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## TheMarlinInLV (Jul 30, 2012)

So think I got good news and bad news...

I returned the xicar crystals and "unfortunately" was only given store credit in return and was "forced" to use that credit to buy a Perdomo Habano Toro Maduro and a Torano Master...both will be the darkest and most full bodied cigars i have tried up to this point in my cigar smoking career, but Ive been wanting to step my game up!

That was the "bad news"

so the good news is I went to a different B&M and YESSSS! they had boveda packs! I bought 2 69's. I think that should be sufficient because I only have about 20 sticks right now...and i think my humidor is about a 50 ct box. So I went to pop those in, and when I did that I saw that my RH was at 72%! Thats about 3 hours after I removed the xicar crystals and left just the wash cloth. So I think thats a good sign! hopefully those boveda packs will settle it right at 65-69%!

Now, I noticed another thing...my temp is about 82°! noooooo! Ive seen a post on that somewhere in the newbie intro stuff and it just said to move it to a cooler spot...but I think its already in a cooler spot, anything other suggestions on what to do about this? Is low 80° temp really bad? beetles?

thanks again puff!


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## TheMarlinInLV (Jul 30, 2012)

starting to smoke this torano master...its too strong for my pallet so far, still on 1st third! i need baby steps, i think the alec bradley american blend churchill's are perfect for my pallet at this point in my smoking career! hopefully this torano mellows a bit tho!


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## zephead61 (Apr 18, 2012)

Yes, 80 degrees is bad! Either move your humi to a cooler spot, 72 or below, or freeze all your sticks to kill any possible beetle infestation. Once you do that, 80 degrees won't matter.


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## TheMarlinInLV (Jul 30, 2012)

zephead61 said:


> Yes, 80 degrees is bad! Either move your humi to a cooler spot, 72 or below, or freeze all your sticks to kill any possible beetle infestation. Once you do that, 80 degrees won't matter.


noooooo...okay, well i don't really want to freeze my sticks since I thought I've read that that is a complete no-no?arrgh

I'm trying to move it to a spot thats not near anything that emits heat since i had it by my 5 gal water dispenser! Hopefully this stabilizes it...

on a better note, I'm already eating my words on this torano master...after the initial few draws I'm already liking it and its still in its 1st third...might be nubbing this one out! Im thinking the new (stronger) tobacco shock mixed with the torch chem residue from light may have shocked the pallet initially...and man, this torano has a great draw! i love torano...i smoked a decent amount of casa torano's and loved them too and they also had a great draw!mmmmmm...good friday!


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## Quine (Nov 9, 2011)

Those bovida packs will work ok, but are an expensive solution though you can re-charge them. But there are better ways like KL which can be used very well to humidify (easy) as well as dry (harder to do, but the KL works decently here too). But apart from all of this, there is nothing wrong with removing the tray and putting all the sticks in the bottom part. If the tray is lifted a little bit it will mess up the lid seal as you have discovered. The "separation" issue is really pretty minimal unless you are mixing infused sticks with non-infused. You shouldn't do that, but otherwise mixing maduros with naturals etc is not going to have a noticeable effect, at least it doesn't on my palate.

Under no circumstances should you put a wet cloth or sponge directly on the wood. You didn't have to panic. A some-what low Rh for a couple of days isn't going to hurt anything. Your temp is high, but I understand if there isn't much you can do about that. Freezing cigars _the right way_ for a couple of days kills beetles and their eggs, you don't leave the sticks in the freezer as long term storage. Must be done right, in air-tight container, plastic bags with air sucked out, etc. But most of today's cigars don't have beetles in the first place and your collection is small, so the chance that you have any beetle eggs to worry about is small. Apart from the beetle issue, the low 80's is not too high a temp for cigars. Not ideal, but it isn't going to ruin them if you keep the RH properly set. Consider where these things are manufactured... Tropical countries with consistently high temps and humidity.


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## Tman (Sep 12, 2010)

TheMarlinInLV said:


> Zephead, I did the dollar bill test when I bought it and it was good according to what I've read. I also dropped the lid and it makes the woosh sound as opposed to a crack/smack when it closes. So because of that I thought it was a humidor with a good seal.
> 
> Tman, in my novice opinion I don't think I need to season it again. I read the herf n terf seasoning link and pretty much did what he did. Things went south when I left the xicar crystals in it alone...
> 
> Thanks for the replies everyone!


I worry a little because you're reading 59% RH with Xikar crystal in there. These suckers should be getting your RH% to 65-70% if you are using a 4oz jar with 100-50ct humidor. Boveda is not going to help you any more than the Xikar crystal on this matter. Neither is Heartfelt beads. Either your humidor leaks a lot, your hygrometer is off, or you haven't seasoned your humidor enough.

I'm surprised 3 hour leaving the wash cloth did much. It usually takes up to a day or two to make any difference.


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## TheMarlinInLV (Jul 30, 2012)

Quine said:


> But there are better ways like KL which can be used very well to humidify (easy) as well as dry (harder to do, but the KL works decently here too).
> 
> So KL is a good way to get humidity up?like spray it down and then put it in the humi?
> 
> ...


So yea, just a quick update. That Torano Master was awesome yesterday! and as you can see with my comments in my above post...my Rh is stabilized at 61%, debating on buying KL, maybe putting a sponge with distilled water in it, or maybe buying a 75 Boveda pack hoping that that will split the difference and bring Rh to around the 65% range...suggestions about that?

and also...my temp is still high, 79°-82° and I have moved it around to no success! any suggestions on that?

thanks again Puff!


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## Bondo 440 (Jul 24, 2012)

You are in Vegas, you might need to put it in a room with an Air Conditioner.
If you don't have one, start dating a nice girl that does, and you're golden, bother !:whoo:


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## hawesg (Jun 9, 2012)

I would check out the thread "the science behind freezing" I'm on my phone so it would be a pita to find the link, since I decided to freeze my sticks I definatly can't tell the difference. I'll add the link when I go home

Here's the link http://www.cigarforums.net/forums/vb/cigar-questions/272095-science-behind-freezing.html, what I did was make a small tuperdor so that I could leave a few out that could be smoked while my freshly frozen sticks stabilized


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## Quine (Nov 9, 2011)

TheMarlinInLV said:


> So yea, just a quick update. That Torano Master was awesome yesterday! and as you can see with my comments in my above post...my Rh is stabilized at 61%, debating on buying KL, maybe putting a sponge with distilled water in it, or maybe buying a 75 Boveda pack hoping that that will split the difference and bring Rh to around the 65% range...suggestions about that?
> 
> and also...my temp is still high, 79°-82° and I have moved it around to no success! any suggestions on that?


First off, KL works fine. Yes, basically you put it (dry) in a nylon stocking or some other similar sack or for a small humidor a plastic pill bottle with lots of holes drilled into it works well. Then add a little water to it by spraying, dripping it into the pill bottle, or just dropping the stocking into a bowl with a little water. I only use a very little. In a pill bottle (good for a small humidor in _my_ ambient rh) containing say 2oz of KL I put in like 1/2 teaspoon of water. In your desert environment, you will need a little more KL than that probably and so a little more water too...

Next, if there is nothing you can do about the temperature then don't worry about it. 80F isn't all that bad and I presume it will come down in the winter. Lastly, at 80F 61% Rh is still a decent amount of water in the air. You are reporting that your cigars smoke fine, so maybe in your situation (_your_ humidor, _your_ climate, etc) 61% is just fine. Leave it alone for a while and see how the sticks come along...


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## Bondo 440 (Jul 24, 2012)

Bondo 440 said:


> You are in Vegas, you might need to put it in a room with an Air Conditioner.
> If you don't have one, start dating a nice girl that does, and you're golden, bother !:whoo:


Just Kidding Marlin. Look at this as well ..

Cigar Geeks - Portal KnowledgBase


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## TheMarlinInLV (Jul 30, 2012)

Quine said:


> First off, KL works fine. Yes, basically you put it (dry) in a nylon stocking or some other similar sack or for a small humidor a plastic pill bottle with lots of holes drilled into it works well. Then add a little water to it by spraying, dripping it into the pill bottle, or just dropping the stocking into a bowl with a little water. I only use a very little. In a pill bottle (good for a small humidor in _my_ ambient rh) containing say 2oz of KL I put in like 1/2 teaspoon of water. In your desert environment, you will need a little more KL than that probably and so a little more water too...
> 
> Next, if there is nothing you can do about the temperature then don't worry about it. 80F isn't all that bad and I presume it will come down in the winter. Lastly, at 80F 61% Rh is still a decent amount of water in the air. You are reporting that your cigars smoke fine, so maybe in your situation (_your_ humidor, _your_ climate, etc) 61% is just fine. Leave it alone for a while and see how the sticks come along...


OK, so I have had family in town for the weekend so sorry for not updating...but on the upside it has let me let the humidor go untouched and see where it stabilizes to after a couple days as opposed to the 9-24 hours I was checking on my humi before...

so it seems like rh has settled at 60%...but I just checked it to get a stick to smoke and it was actually at 59%...so it looks like 59% right now...

the temp when i checked and rh was at 60% was at 82° and right now when rh was 59% the temp was 81.3°...so i think temp range is going to be 81°-82° and rh at 59%-60%...

Im not very happy with this at the moment and think I will have to go the KL route, since I am a bit disappointed that the Boveda's didn't get the job done...and don't really wanna support the product if it didn't get the job done for me already...



Bondo 440 said:


> Just Kidding Marlin. Look at this as well ..
> edit:had to delete link to post because I don't have enough posts to share links


So thanks for this link bondo and KL advice quine, because I think this is my best option right now just cuz vegas is so damn dry! I think nylon stocking sounds good because I don't have any pill bottles unfortunately! so with the nylon stocking, i put that stocking inside a tupperware dish so it doesn't touch wood (kinda like what bondo's link said) or is it ok just in the stocking?

also...is there anything anyone can recommend about my temp? I do have it in a air conditioned room Bondo...i think AC is a must here in LV Bondo, well to maintain sanity at least!lol...but yea, its in my bedroom on the floor and I have my thermostat set at 75°! so i don't know what else I can do as far as moving its location!frustrating!


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## TheMarlinInLV (Jul 30, 2012)

also...do you guys think maybe my humi is not as airtight as I may think it is since the Rh has dropped a bit and not maintained or raised to the 65%-69% like the boveda packs are supposed to set it at? they did pass dollar bill test and the drop test....?


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## stonecutter2 (Jul 12, 2012)

TheMarlinInLV said:


> also...do you guys think maybe my humi is not as airtight as I may think it is since the Rh has dropped a bit and not maintained or raised to the 65%-69% like the boveda packs are supposed to set it at? they did pass dollar bill test and the drop test....?


My (total noob) opinion is to let things be for a while. Smoke the sticks and see if you like them. If you have burning issues (relighting a lot) wrapper issues (cracking/splitting/unraveling), or flavor/smoke issues (harsh or bitter smoke) then maybe they're too dry, and continue to fiddle with the humidity.

Otherwise, if you're holding at 59 to 60%, then so be it for now. Let the sticks/humi adjust to that for awhile and see if the humidity rises a bit. Could be you have a few dry sticks in the humi, and they're dropping your humidity down a bit. Or your seasoning wasn't done for a long enough time (I've read some humis take longer, maybe kiln dried cedar for a longer period).

All in all, no worries just yet - you're talking 59%, not like 40% or 78% or something. You can tweak to get the humidity right where you want it. Unless the humidity keeps plummeting, hang back and let the sticks and humi chill.


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## stonecutter2 (Jul 12, 2012)

TheMarlinInLV said:


> OK, so I have had family in town for the weekend so sorry for not updating...but on the upside it has let me let the humidor go untouched and see where it stabilizes to after a couple days as opposed to the 9-24 hours I was checking on my humi before...
> 
> so it seems like rh has settled at 60%...but I just checked it to get a stick to smoke and it was actually at 59%...so it looks like 59% right now...
> 
> ...


As an alternative to a stocking (which can hold a ton of litter), you might also consider some baby food "jars" - *not* the glass kind! The *plastic* rectangular new-fangled kind! You can easily poke holes in them to vent the litter, and put the cover back on so the litter doesn't leak/produce as much dust, and they're usually really cheap at your grocery store. They're also plastic so you can drip water into them easily without worrying about it coming out of the bottom. You can pitch the food or look for something that seems like a yummy treat or something you'd eat, like applesauce or fruit cocktail. Wash and dry well, poke a few holes in the lid, then fill with silica gel kitty litter.


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## TheMarlinInLV (Jul 30, 2012)

stonecutter2 said:


> As an alternative to a stocking (which can hold a ton of litter), you might also consider some baby food "jars" - *not* the glass kind! The *plastic* rectangular new-fangled kind! You can easily poke holes in them to vent the litter, and put the cover back on so the litter doesn't leak/produce as much dust, and they're usually really cheap at your grocery store. They're also plastic so you can drip water into them easily without worrying about it coming out of the bottom. You can pitch the food or look for something that seems like a yummy treat or something you'd eat, like applesauce or fruit cocktail. Wash and dry well, poke a few holes in the lid, then fill with silica gel kitty litter.


nice suggestion man! this was actually a bit of an issue for me...before Ive seen tiny tupperwares that would be good for this but they always came in sets and don't wanna but more tupperware...i actually ended up calling walgreens and told the pharmacist my situation and he was like come on down, but in a passive aggressive are you f'ing with me bro about this bs-type of way!lol

looks like i have a couple options now!thanks


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