# Do these look legit?



## PDV (Nov 26, 2008)

I have no experience with CCs, but picked up a sampler of sorts from an acquaintance. He's been getting his cigars from the same source for several years and presumably knows what he's getting. I got seven HdM double coronas, two Partagas Serie P No. 2, one Partagas Serie D No. 4, one Monte EL 2001 double corona, and one Monte EL 2006 robusto.

To my uneducated eye, the construction and labels look ok, and the sizes seem appropriate compared to the specs I've seen online. It's probably hard to tell from the photos I'm attaching, especially since I don't have any of the boxes, etc, but I'm wondering if anyone with more experience can point out anything that would help to confirm whether or not these are legit.

P1010448.jpg (72.0 KB)

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## mrsmitty (Jan 22, 2009)

PDV said:


> I have no experience with CCs, but picked up a sampler of sorts from an acquaintance. He's been getting his cigars from the same source for several years and presumably knows what he's getting. I got seven HdM double coronas, two Partagas Serie P No. 2, one Partagas Serie D No. 4, one Monte EL 2001 double corona, and one Monte EL 2006 robusto.
> 
> To my uneducated eye, the construction and labels look ok, and the sizes seem appropriate compared to the specs I've seen online. It's probably hard to tell from the photos I'm attaching, especially since I don't have any of the boxes, etc, but I'm wondering if anyone with more experience can point out anything that would help to confirm whether or not these are legit.
> 
> ...


I'd like to know the same thing especially on the hoyo.


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## Habanolover (Feb 22, 2006)

Not much way to tell with the pics. The best way to tell is to let your taste buds tell the tale. :2

Edit: I see you are inexperienced with Habanos. If you could get a shot of the boxes it may help, or it may not. There are no guarantees unless you know and trust your source.


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## Cigary (Oct 19, 2007)

Send me one of each and I will let you know,,,no charge for sending them out to me. lol

It's hard to make an accurate report from a photo,,,,if they taste good to you who cares?


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## bdw1984 (May 6, 2009)

can you get any close up photos of the bands? or like donnie said (before i did as USUAL lol) a shot of the boxes? it's too tough to tell from the pics you posted

ben


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## SkinsFanLarry (Aug 21, 2009)

Let me start off by saying, I'm not trying to be a smart arse!

Inexperienced or not when it come to CC's, if you buy or are given them by someone you know or trust, or purchase them from a reputable dealer/B&M and still feel like you need to ask additional persons or a forum _"do they look real"_ than I personally wouldn't have bought them.

Like I said, I'm not trying to be a smart arse and/or give the impression that I can always tell the real thing from a fake.

I've always told myself, if I'm not 100% sure than I'm not buying them, especially if the price is to good to be true.

Just my :2

I gotta agree with Cigary, _"if they taste good to you who cares?"_


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## PDV (Nov 26, 2008)

madurolover said:


> Not much way to tell with the pics. The best way to tell is to let your taste buds tell the tale. :2
> 
> Edit: I see you are inexperienced with Habanos. If you could get a shot of the boxes it may help, or it may not. There are no guarantees unless you know and trust your source.


No access to the boxes. I didn't really figure the photos I posted would be determinative, but I have seen people ID counterfeit Cohibas on here (although those were pretty obvious), so I thought it wouldn't hurt to ask. Thanks for the response.


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## PDV (Nov 26, 2008)

bdw1984 said:


> can you get any close up photos of the bands? or like donnie said (before i did as USUAL lol) a shot of the boxes? it's too tough to tell from the pics you posted
> 
> ben


I'll see if I can figure out how to get a better closeup of the bands. I did notice that there was a slight variance in the colors in one of the HdM bands compared to the others. I don't know if there has been any change in those bands over time, nor do I know how much age is on any of these, with the exception of the ELs (assuming that they are legit).


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## PDV (Nov 26, 2008)

SkinsFanLarry said:


> Let me start off by saying, I'm not trying to be a smart arse!
> 
> Inexperienced or not when it come to CC's, if you buy or are given them by someone you know or trust, or purchase them from a reputable dealer/B&M and still feel like you need to ask additional persons or a forum _"do they look real"_ than I personally wouldn't have bought them.
> 
> ...


If I shouldn't buy any CCs unless I'm 100% sure that they are legit, I could never buy any, because I don't know of any way of confirming that. I got them from the best source I know of, a person I know well who trusts his source, but I don't know the source so I can't really be 100% sure. I did get one cigar from the same source previously, a Partagas Serie D No. 3 EL 2001. It was outstanding, so I assume it was the real deal. I wanted to try a few more, and just thought I would see if anyone on here could point out anything to confirm whether they're real or not. The price was definitely not too good to be true.

You're right, if they taste good there's no issue. If they don't, I'd like to know whether to write off CCs or just this source.


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## Habanolover (Feb 22, 2006)

SkinsFanLarry said:


> _"if they taste good to you who cares?"_





PDV said:


> You're right, if they taste good there's no issue.


Even if you like the way they taste I still would not buy them if they are fakes. This is one of the things that keeps counterfeiters in business. When we give counterfeiters our money then we are just helping them to improve their operation and produce better fakes. :2


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## jessejava187 (Aug 25, 2009)

Inexperienced or not when it come to CC's, if you buy or are given them by someone you know or trust, or purchase them from a reputable dealer/B&M and still feel like you need to ask additional persons or a forum _"do they look real"_ than I personally wouldn't have bought them.

I feel the same way, If its from a brother, I know we is truely a good BOTL, they i would never have a doubt, Its more where i get them then if they look real or not, if that makes sense.


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## RYJ 08 (Jul 24, 2008)

Sorry PDV but they look fake to me the hoyo gave them away, also the construction looks bad very veiny on all of them . Even if they are, some fakes are not bad to smoke. made i mexio i think.


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## tupacboy (Sep 10, 2009)

did u try smoking one yet?

the construction on the hoyo is a bit suspect


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## PDV (Nov 26, 2008)

I haven't smoked one yet. I'll report back when I do. I actually got these back in June and thought I'd let them rest a while. If it ever warms up again I'll give one a try.

I'm open to any more input from the peanut gallery in the interim.


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## Snake Hips (May 30, 2008)

RYJ 08 said:


> Sorry PDV but they look fake to me the hoyo gave them away, also the construction looks bad very veiny on all of them . Even if they are, some fakes are not bad to smoke. made i mexio i think.


What about the Hoyos "gives them away?" They look rather good to me, actually, all of them.


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## Scott W. (Jul 10, 2008)

The Monte's are suspect. Look at the center of the band, the lettering and lines are offset and they should not be unless it's my eyes.


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## Tarks (Mar 3, 2009)

scottw said:


> The Monte's are suspect. Look at the center of the band, the lettering and lines are offset and they should not be unless it's my eyes.


Montecristo is well known for having off centered bands. I have a box of Monte 4's that are the real deal and some of my bands look off center.

Enjoy your smokes, they look damn good to me.


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## Habanolover (Feb 22, 2006)

Snake Hips said:


> What about the Hoyos "gives them away?" They look rather good to me, actually, all of them.


:tpd:


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## Frinkiac7 (Dec 12, 2008)

They look good at first glance to me.

We Yankees have few ways of ensuring our CCs are real unless we purchase them ourselves, in person, from an authorized dealer, preferably LCDH. 

That being said, if you trust your source and have it that they do good work, then smoke away. The proof is in the pudding with any cigar, though. If it is to your liking, or if it tastes like/reminds you of similar Habanos you had in the past, you should be good.

I would take a counterfeit Habano that was a great smoke over a plugged, legit Habano any day. If it smokes well, all other things are ancillary IMO.

Also, protip: having a vein does not mean "counterfeit!"


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## Herf N Turf (Dec 31, 2008)

Snake Hips said:


> What about the Hoyos "gives them away?" They look rather good to me, actually, all of them.


I was thinkin the same thing. I have all those in my humi and they are consistent with what I see everyday. Unless you can show more damning evidence, I'd assume them to be real and turn them to ash with glee.


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## bimmian (Jul 13, 2009)

I've personally had veiny, rough, splotchy, and slightly lumpy cigars, and off-centered bands... ALL from a trusted vendor. If I didn't know any better/trust my vendor, I would have automatically wrote them off as counterfeits based on appearance only. (Yes, my vendor was also verified as legit for me by one of the kind mods here...) Let's not forget that they are coming from a communist dictatorship and are bound to have imperfections from time to time. 

Then again, I'm also the guy who had a fake Cohiba Maduro called out here, (gifted by an uninformed friend to an inattentive me) and sometimes not paying attention to the band CAN bite you, lol! So it's a mixture of knowing what to look for and what not to sweat, I'm finding out... Certain brands can allow certain defects/variances, while others allow different things to slip. Sometimes the defects in the bands is actually an indicator of authenticity! SLR bands, for instance, are very lightly embossed in the shield, and hard to make out. If you get a SLR with very clean, crisp embossing in the shield, it just might be fake (to my understanding)!

I say "smoke 'em!" If they have a slightly sweet/sour "twanginess" to them, is how I would describe the way CCs taste to my palate... esp. the PSP2s, which should be mostly earthy and spicy flavors with those notes in the background.

Sorry for the long-ass post, it's just that I'm learning a TON from all of you on this forum and I'm anxious to share my new knowledge!


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## Scott W. (Jul 10, 2008)

Tarks said:


> *Montecristo is well known for having off centered bands. *I have a box of Monte 4's that are the real deal and some of my bands look off center.
> 
> Enjoy your smokes, they look damn good to me.


They are? Go to Cigar Aficionado and look up their new section on how to identify counterfeits. They say off centered bands are one of the easier ways to tell as well as the shape of the Fleur De Lis in the center.


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## bimmian (Jul 13, 2009)

I am in NO WAY an "expert" of any sort as far as Havanas goes, but I must admit that my very first CC was a Monte #2 my sister brought me back from LCdH Vancouver, and the print on that band was slightly off-center...

I'm not sure why CA would say that.. Maybe they meant if it's REALLY off-center, I've had some counterfeits that had that issue, but that was like I said, REALLY off-center. 

Sorry to jump in your convo without an invite, but I felt like I could help shed some light on this if I shared my personal experience.eace:


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## Scott W. (Jul 10, 2008)

bimmian said:


> I am in NO WAY an "expert" of any sort as far as Havanas goes, but I must admit that my very first CC was a Monte #2 my sister brought me back from LCdH Vancouver, and the print on that band was slightly off-center...
> 
> I'm not sure why CA would say that.. Maybe they meant if it's REALLY off-center, I've had some counterfeits that had that issue, but that was like I said, REALLY off-center.
> 
> *Sorry to jump in your convo* without an invite, but I felt like I could help shed some light on this if I shared my personal experience.eace:


It is an open forum and anyone is welcome to share with us their knowledge and experiences so please don't apologize, it's nice to have you.


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## PDV (Nov 26, 2008)

And I certainly appreciate everyone's input. This is the type of information I was looking for, even though there does not appear to be a uniformity of opinion.


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## JoeyBear (Jul 31, 2007)

RYJ 08 said:


> Sorry PDV but they look fake to me the hoyo gave them away, also the construction looks bad very veiny on all of them . Even if they are, some fakes are not bad to smoke. made i mexio i think.


?? That's a ridiculous response

They appear to be fine, but there are other factors that have been discussed. Check the bands and then try one or find someone with enough experience with ISOMs that they will be able to help determine if they are real or fake.


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## Tarks (Mar 3, 2009)

scottw said:


> They are? Go to Cigar Aficionado and look up their new section on how to identify counterfeits. They say off centered bands are one of the easier ways to tell as well as the shape of the Fleur De Lis in the center.


I hear you but i can tell from experience (Approx 25 boxes of Monte) that they often have off centre bands. Not terribly off centre but off centre non the less. All of my boxes have been purchased from a LCDH in Cuba. The only Monte product that I ever purchased from a local B&M was a Monte Open a few months ago. This cigar had a different band on it. I'm not sure if Monte has recently changed their bands or not.


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## Scott W. (Jul 10, 2008)

Tarks said:


> I hear you but i can tell from experience (Approx 25 boxes of Monte) that they often have off centre bands. Not terribly off centre but off centre non the less. All of my boxes have been purchased from a LCDH in Cuba. The only Monte product that I ever purchased from a local B&M was a Monte Open a few months ago. This cigar had a different band on it. I'm not sure if *Monte has recently changed their bands or not.*




*They actually changed the Fleur DeLis in the middle and I think the font at one point. Not too sure how long ago though. *


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## ss396 (Sep 24, 2005)

unless your friend has had that monte dc el 2001 in his humidor for 6+ years, its a fake. these have been sold out every where for a long, long time.


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## AspiringGent (May 15, 2009)

I've had authentics with imperfect bands, and fakes that were a little too perfect in fact. The best way to tell is to smoke one.


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## Tarks (Mar 3, 2009)

ss396 said:


> unless your friend has had that monte dc el 2001 in his humidor for 6+ years, its a fake. these have been sold out every where for a long, long time.


I am sure that there are many people that purchase LE's keep some of them for long term aging so having one would not be unusual. Also, you would be surprised how many are still around in B&M's in Canada and Europe.


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## JCK (Nov 9, 2006)

what years are printed on those montecristo edicion limitada smokes? It's hard to tell from the photos. I'd do a little research on the two years printed and make sure the sizes jive with what you've got there.

One of the P2s looks a little ugly and twisted. 

If the hoyos came out of the same box, there's alot of variation in color for the wrappers which I don't think is normal.


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## PDV (Nov 26, 2008)

JCK said:


> what years are printed on those montecristo edicion limitada smokes? It's hard to tell from the photos. I'd do a little research on the two years printed and make sure the sizes jive with what you've got there.
> 
> One of the P2s looks a little ugly and twisted.
> 
> If the hoyos came out of the same box, there's alot of variation in color for the wrappers which I don't think is normal.


Like I mentioned in the original post, there is a Monte EL '01 double corona and an EL '06 robusto. I already checked, and there were ELs in those sizes in those years.

I know what you mean about the one P2, but I think the photo accentuated that.

I don't know if the HdMs came out of the same box or not.


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## bimmian (Jul 13, 2009)

Naw, don't sweat the P2 being ugly, I literally JUST burned one that had these 3 horrible, bumpy veins (I wish I had taken a pic if I knew I would need it. Too late now, lol!)... And it tasted GREAT! Burned kinda effed up, but tasted great...

Kind of like this, but worse, and 3 of 'em.. (This is a different one)


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## tobacmon (May 17, 2007)

I think if you smoke them that would be the best way to tell if they are real or not.

If possible post some close ups of the heads and bands!


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## bimmian (Jul 13, 2009)

I totally agree... I would recommend starting with the one of the Partagas... They usually have a flavor that is unlike anything else in the cigar world that I'm aware of. (To me, at least.. Hopefully you'll notice it right off the bat, too.) It might not be like "BOOM! POW! Right in your face!!", but there should definitely be at least a subtle but noticeable a difference between them and any NCs you've tried so far. Something sweet and tangy (that's the best I can describe it) about them that can't be duplicated by anything else on my palate.

Try one or two and let us know what you think of them! If they're real, which they sure look like to me (to the best I can tell from the photos), you may have a hard time smoking anything else for awhile, lol!


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## PDV (Nov 26, 2008)

I decided to smoke one of the Hoyos last weekend since I have more of them. The burn was nice and even, the ash firm, and the smoke was very smooth. However, it was very mild...just not that flavorful to my taste buds. Pretty boring, actually, especially for such a long cigar. The draw was also a little tight, but not too bad, and it produced what I would term a moderate amount of smoke.

I have nothing to compare this to, so it doesn't really help me determine if these are the real deal or not. I'm hoping that the others have more flavor, legit or not.

P1010453.jpg

P1010454.jpg

Sorry about the poor picture quality. I think it's about time that I read the owner's manual for my camera (which I've had for years).


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## Snake Hips (May 30, 2008)

The Hoyo Double Corona is a very mild cigar, so that sounds about right.


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## Gromulin (Oct 24, 2008)

If I have nothing else to go by, I always look for the triple-cap, and embossing on the band. I know that not all bands are embossed, but I've yet to hear of a couterfeiter bothering to emboss their bands.

After you've got some experience, your nose will tell you as much as your eyes.


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## Habanolover (Feb 22, 2006)

Gromulin said:


> If I have nothing else to go by, I always look for the triple-cap, and embossing on the band. I know that not all bands are embossed, but I've yet to hear of a couterfeiter bothering to emboss their bands.
> 
> After you've got some experience, your nose will tell you as much as your eyes.


Now days counterfeit bands can look almost identical to the real thing, embossing and all.


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## Gromulin (Oct 24, 2008)

madurolover said:


> Now days counterfeit bands can look almost identical to the real thing, embossing and all.


You are probably right. Thats why I tend to stay away from Cohibas, and some other "big name" cigars, if I'm traveling.

Find reputable vendors. Expect plugs if it's more than 30% off...and enjoy.

Once you get the taste for Puros, you can tell pretty fast if it's the real thing.

If it tastes good and helps the day fade away...who really cares if Fidel got a cut?


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## clovis (Apr 14, 2004)

Okay, a bit long, but what the heck, it's been a while...

I agree that quality control (centering, color, etc) can be spotty.
However, I think based on the picture I see that Monte band on the 01 is incorrect. Monte bands back then actually had a different style. The crest-like object did not have the long whispy arms on it like they do now. It was shorter horizontally... In addition the paper for the band was more "porous" than the current one that has a sheen on it. The effect is sort of subtle if you don't have them side by side, but it's almost like the difference between matte paint and glossy paint on a wall. I can't recall exactly when this changed, but I think it was maybe 2003...someone correct me if I am wrong, I'm going from memory. I'm calling that one out because I believe it is actually wrong (like seeing the "new" gold embossed design on a 2001 Cohiba). It looks like a post 2003 label an pre2003 cigar.

Is it possible that the 2001 LE Monte is still legit?...maybe...is it possible that your friend gets his cigars without bands? Then he rebands them? Maybe he rebanded his 2001 Monte with a new band by mistake. I can't tell whether there are triple caps of course, so that could rule them as fake if triple caps are missing. 

Comments on the Hoyo seem in line with this bland stick. They are smooth...they smell really good, but they have little taste in my opinion. I guess they were great back in the day, but I never had one of those. I always thought a fresh box of Hoyos smelled like raisins and then tasted like...well..almost air.

Slightly off topic, but just me rambling now...
It is my opinion (whatever that is worth) that bands, seals, etc. are generally only a way to negate authenticity. Even then, bands that have the correct picture/design but have printing flaws or embossing flaws can still absolutely be legit. There is quite a variation in the tint of yellow or red used on a cigar for example. As for centering I can pull currency out fo my wallet and find legal tender bills that aren't centered that great. 

Cuban cigar wrappers of recent history have sort of a certain feel and generally a certain color to them that is failry unique. The veins have a certain "stitched" appearance to them often where it kind of pulls the leaf tight and creates little ripples taht lead into the vaines...I don't see this often on a noncuban. Upon opening, a box of cuban cigars generally has a certain smell that is quite different from noncubans. My noncuban humidor smells good, but completely different from my cuban humidor. The noncuban humi smell tickles my nose and smells very strongly of cedar. When I put a Arturo Funete up to my nose an take a whiff, it has a strong cedar smell. My whole noncuban humidor smells like that (even though I don't think I have a singel Funete in there. The smell is sharper for lack of a better word. The cuban humi smells more mellow...like sweet perfume...or really strong tea leaves before you actually brew the tea. The cuban smell is also much more dense for lack of a better word.

Oh, well, just trying to help a fella out. It's tough when you always hear "you won't know until you smoke it"...but if you've never had one how will you know? In defense of this answer though there is truth in it. I would be that if you were to smoke say 10 cubans from variuos boxes and brands you would certainly have a few that were not duds. When you hit those (non-duds) you will then understand what a person means when that peson says "smoke it and you will know." Suppose you have never had Dr. Pepper. You have had pretty much all other colas. If a person were to give your first Dr. Pepper you may never know if it is really a Dr. Pepper, but you will certainly know that it is not Coke, Pepsi, etc. That's when you have likely had your first cuban.

Please keep in mind that I have not had most of the recent noncuban stuff that is supposed to taste like a cuban (Pepins, etc.).

I'll shut up for now.


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## Snake Hips (May 30, 2008)

Gromulin said:


> If I have nothing else to go by, I always look for the triple-cap, and embossing on the band. I know that not all bands are embossed, but I've yet to hear of a couterfeiter bothering to emboss their bands.
> 
> After you've got some experience, your nose will tell you as much as your eyes.


I've yet to hear of a counterfeiter that _doesn't_ emboss their bands. Even the fakest, fakey Cohibos on the streets of Mexico have embossed bands (though that's about all they get right). I've seen...maybe one or two examples of counterfeit cigars without embossing.

@Clovis
Good catch about the fleur de lis on the Montecristo bands. However, I would like to point out that ELs and ERs both employ special bands that are more detailed, uniform and well-made. Maybe it's possible the post-2003 fleur de lis was used on the older Montecristo Edicion Limitadas?


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## zackly (Jun 27, 2008)

*Re: Do these Hoyos look legit?*

I was gifted a few Cuban Hoyos recently. I don't know much about Cuban cigars. They are a little over 7" and maybe 46-48 ring guage. Does anyone know if all HDM Cubans have embossed bands? These don't but appear to have a triple cap. Thanks!



madurolover said:


> Now days counterfeit bands can look almost identical to the real thing, embossing and all.


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## bdw1984 (May 6, 2009)

yes all hdm's have embossed bands and if there is no triple cap they're not legit, bottom line


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## Snake Hips (May 30, 2008)

bdw1984 said:


> yes all hdm's have embossed bands and if there is no triple cap they're not legit, bottom line


Yes, all have embossed bands. As for triple caps, untrue sir.


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