# Legal Risks of Buying Cubans?



## FpDoc77 (Nov 30, 2005)

Im not sure how many of you will think this is an inappropriate post. If it is forgive my ignorance and I will let it go. With my recent experience smoking Cubans I am very close to making a purchase. I never go into anything blind. I know some about the legal ramifications of buying Cubans. I know the main thing is the cigars being seized. What is the worst case scenerio? How high are the fines? Can you get jail time? Any information would be greatly appreciated.


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## PaulMac (Jul 15, 2003)

FpDoc77 said:


> Im not sure how many of you will think this is an inappropriate post. If it is forgive my ignorance and I will let it go. With my recent experience smoking Cubans I am very close to making a purchase. I never go into anything blind. I know some about the legal ramifications of buying Cubans. I know the main thing is the cigars being seized. What is the worst case scenerio? How high are the fines? Can you get jail time? Any information would be greatly appreciated.


Criminal penalties of up to 1 million for corporations, 250,000 for individuals and 10 years in prison, plus civil penalties of up to 65,000 per occurence

PaulMac


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## FpDoc77 (Nov 30, 2005)

I okay I just wet my pants. Another question...whats the worst that you have heard of happening to a regular joe buying for himself a box or 2?


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## PaulMac (Jul 15, 2003)

confiscation, the occasional threatening letter that will go beyond making you wet pants and approach fill em status, but in the end, appears to not mean much either


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## Charles (Sep 28, 2005)

I have tried Cuban cigars in the past and really enjoy them. I have only purchased and smoked them outside of the US though. You have to understand that it is against the law. I doubt that anything will happen, you only have to review some of the posts on this site to see what I mean, but is it worth it? No judgements on my part believe me, just want you to think about what you are doing. The ISOMs that I have smoked have been the best cigars of my short smoking experience and I hope to enjoy more soon.


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## PaulMac (Jul 15, 2003)

oh and lest I forget, if you travel people who have had confiscations always seem to be the unlucky guy who gets extra searching attention...wonder how that happens...hrmmmm.


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## SeanGAR (Jul 9, 2004)

You read a lot on various forums and you see that there are people who have attempted to buy Cubans and who have gotten a letter instead of cigars. They ignore the letter and thats all. But I don't like the idea of being on a government list someplace one bit. 

And there was talk on another forum of customs agents trying to infiltrate the online cigar commnity in late '04. The government took 2 years to investigate the online bong industries before arresting glassblowers and those selling bongs online, notibly Tommy Chong. If they arrest you for selling a piece of glass, what will they get you for violating a trade embargo? 

Not being an alarmist or anything ... just thinking out loud here...


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## FpDoc77 (Nov 30, 2005)

Sean I dont think you are being paranoid...just careful. Point well taken.


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## palm55 (Jan 5, 2006)

I've wondered the same...

It's a 55-mile run from where I am to Canada, and I'm sure quite a fine selection of Cubans... Trouble is, I'm more than a bit concerned about the trip back through the tunnel or over the bridge to Michigan, espcially in light of post-911 measures.

Ahh well... I'm having fun with the NC's... And I don't have to worry about stuffing Cubans into my pants and sweating it out at the border!


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## (909) (Jul 27, 2004)

SeanGAR said:


> You read a lot on various forums and you see that there are people who have attempted to buy Cubans and who have gotten a letter instead of cigars. They ignore the letter and thats all. But I don't like the idea of being on a government list someplace one bit.
> 
> And there was talk on another forum of customs agents trying to infiltrate the online cigar commnity in late '04. The government took 2 years to investigate the online bong industries before arresting glassblowers and those selling bongs online, notibly Tommy Chong. If they arrest you for selling a piece of glass, what will they get you for violating a trade embargo?
> 
> Not being an alarmist or anything ... just thinking out loud here...


Spooky!


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## FpDoc77 (Nov 30, 2005)

Palm I live about the same distance from Canada. I wonder if you took the labels off put them in a ziplockador and came back how they would ever know they were a Cuban.


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## FpDoc77 (Nov 30, 2005)

And just one question...bongs are sold publically all over the US. Why would that be an issue unless they were also selling marijuana?


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## PaulMac (Jul 15, 2003)

FpDoc77 said:


> Palm I live about the same distance from Canada. I wonder if you took the labels off put them in a ziplockador and came back how they would ever know they were a Cuban.


they don't have to.
They can confiscate on suspicion of being Cuban, its up to you to PROVE otherwise to them


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## FpDoc77 (Nov 30, 2005)

So they confiscate...to me thats not a huge deal. The other stuff you were talking about would scare the crap out of me.


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## palm55 (Jan 5, 2006)

FpDoc77 said:


> Palm I live about the same distance from Canada. I wonder if you took the labels off put them in a ziplockador and came back how they would ever know they were a Cuban.


Doc,

Good question! Know of anyone with a good stash of RG Dunn wrappers for a retro-fit!!??


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## PaulMac (Jul 15, 2003)

FpDoc77 said:


> So they confiscate...to me thats not a huge deal. The other stuff you were talking about would scare the crap out of me.


indeed!
I did hear a news story about some guy they busted in chicago that they planned to prosecute, but he was importing like 50-100 boxes a week and then reselling them...
my opinion only, but I think for the most part customs isn't gonna go for a guy who gets an odd box here and there....heard occasional stories about boxes that have been opened for inspection still being delivered...


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## FpDoc77 (Nov 30, 2005)

Palm now you are thinking.


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## palm55 (Jan 5, 2006)

PaulMac said:


> they don't have to.
> They can confiscate on suspicion of being Cuban, its up to you to PROVE otherwise to them


Paul/Mac,

Did you have to rain on our parade so soon!!?? Doc and I were just STARTING to use our imaginations here!!!


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## PaulMac (Jul 15, 2003)

palm55 said:


> Paul/Mac,
> 
> Did you have to rain on our parade so soon!!?? Doc and I were just STARTING to use our imaginations here!!!


my apologies, in the future I will give you at least a half hour to really get some detailed plans before I dash all your hopes in little itsy pieces :r


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## FpDoc77 (Nov 30, 2005)

Paul that would be the kind thing to do. :tg 
Dont you see our genius mind at work? :r


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## palm55 (Jan 5, 2006)

PaulMac said:


> my apologies, in the future I will give you at least a half hour to really get some detailed plans before I dash all your hopes in little itsy pieces :r


Thanks for the benefit of the doubt!!!

I've arranged for a hovercraft capable of speeds in excess of 100 mph... Doc is working on diguises... I think we have a plan!!!


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## FpDoc77 (Nov 30, 2005)

Palm and myself partners in crime...cuban smuggling. We are two very bad men...dont step in our way. :bx


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## PaulMac (Jul 15, 2003)

palm55 said:


> Thanks for the benefit of the doubt!!!
> 
> I've arranged for a hovercraft capable of speeds in excess of 100 mph... Doc is working on diguises... I think we have a plan!!!


hrmmm....tell me, that hovercraft....it faster th....
Oh hell...
lemme wait the half hour :tg


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## Sir Tony (Dec 18, 2005)

Three strikes, then castration with a cigar cutter.


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## SeanGAR (Jul 9, 2004)

FpDoc77 said:


> And just one question...bongs are sold publically all over the US. Why would that be an issue unless they were also selling marijuana?


They were in no shape or form selling weed. Drug paraphenalia (sp??) is illegal. Any pipe that the government says is primarily used to smoke illegal drugs is illegal. They made and sold glassware (OK.. bongs). Some was expensive art-type glassware used by collectors as decoration. Tommy Chong was threatened (they would go after his wife and kid) so he plead guilty to keep them away from his family. Pretty sick abuse of power IMHO.


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## FpDoc77 (Nov 30, 2005)

Tony thats just wrong but love ur sig. U must be a Steeler man.


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## Da Klugs (Jan 8, 2005)

FpDoc77 said:


> Im not sure how many of you will think this is an inappropriate post. If it is forgive my ignorance and I will let it go. With my recent experience smoking Cubans I am very close to making a purchase. I never go into anything blind. I know some about the legal ramifications of buying Cubans. I know the main thing is the cigars being seized. What is the worst case scenerio? How high are the fines? Can you get jail time? Any information would be greatly appreciated.


The first rule of fight club is........


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## FpDoc77 (Nov 30, 2005)

SeanGAR said:


> They were in no shape or form selling weed. Drug paraphenalia (sp??) is illegal. Any pipe that the government says is primarily used to smoke illegal drugs is illegal. They made and sold glassware (OK.. bongs). Some was expensive art-type glassware used by collectors as decoration. Tommy Chong was threatened (they would go after his wife and kid) so he plead guilty to keep them away from his family. Pretty sick abuse of power IMHO.


Thats BS...they can be used to smoke anything from tobacco to clover leaves. Only way it can be proven as drug paraphenalia is if it has been used to smoke illegal drugs. If his marketing was...hey here is some MJ smoking bongs then the guy is merely ignorant. Other than that I dont see a case.


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## palm55 (Jan 5, 2006)

Sir Tony said:


> Three strikes, then castration with a cigar cutter.


Tony,

While you're watching the pre-game stuff, Doc and I will be on our way across the river with 100 boxes of Cubans... If we can hawk them fast enough, we might be able to get a couple of tickets!


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## SeanGAR (Jul 9, 2004)

FpDoc77 said:


> Thats BS...they can be used to smoke anything from tobacco to clover leaves. Only way it can be proven as drug paraphenalia is if it has been used to smoke illegal drugs. If his marketing was...hey here is some MJ smoking bongs then the guy is merely ignorant. Other than that I dont see a case.


They are the government ... they make the laws. They arrested many people for just selling bongs and pipes. Asscroft, the man who lost an election to a dead man, at work. These were clean, new pipes and bongs ... no residue .... but they are illegal in this country.

http://www.dea.gov/pubs/csa.html#863
http://talkleft.com/new_archives/001868.html
http://www.dea.gov/ongoing/pipedreams.html


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## FpDoc77 (Nov 30, 2005)

palm55 said:


> Tony,
> 
> While you're watching the pre-game stuff, Doc and I will be on our way across the river with 100 boxes of Cubans... If we can hawk them fast enough, we might be able to get a couple of tickets!


Now ur talking...Super Bowl tickets. I was looking those babies up online...2250-5000k a piece. Im dying to go but couldnt live with myself if I spent that kind of cash. Your hovercraft better have some serious speed.


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## Sir Tony (Dec 18, 2005)

palm55 said:


> Tony,
> 
> While you're watching the pre-game stuff, Doc and I will be on our way across the river with 100 boxes of Cubans... If we can hawk them fast enough, we might be able to get a couple of tickets!


I will sell my soul for tickets (starting at around $2000.00).


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## PaulMac (Jul 15, 2003)

SeanGAR said:


> They are the government ... they make the laws. They arrested many people for just selling bongs and pipes. Asscroft, the man who lost an election to a dead man, at work. These were clean, new pipes and bongs ... no residue .... but they are illegal in this country.
> 
> http://www.dea.gov/pubs/csa.html#863
> http://talkleft.com/new_archives/001868.html
> http://www.dea.gov/ongoing/pipedreams.html


all I gotta say is...in the third link....that gas mask bong is the coolest thing ever! lol
Bet Icehog wants it on the island with him


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## Moglman-cl (May 27, 2005)

Da Klugs said:


> The first rule of fight club is........


:tpd:


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## FpDoc77 (Nov 30, 2005)

Da Klugs said:


> The first rule of fight club is........


Just want to know about legalities nothing more.


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## Da Klugs (Jan 8, 2005)

FpDoc77 said:


> Just want to know about legalities nothing more.


Then use the wonderful Private Messaging system built into this forum.

Good Karma..... Whoooooooo!!!!


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## dayplanner (Dec 11, 1997)

PaulMac said:


> they don't have to.
> They can confiscate on suspicion of being Cuban, its up to you to PROVE otherwise to them


How would that be? How could they confiscate them if they had no proof, markings or evidence of their country of origination? What law allows them to do so?

Can you prove this?

I could see them asking you to declare their origination BUT what happened to innocent until *proven* guilty?


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## galaga (Sep 18, 2003)

FpDoc77 said:


> Just want to know about legalities nothing more.


Then: http://www.cbp.gov/xp/cgov/travel/alerts/cuban_cigars.xml

Or more better: http://www.clubstogie.com/vb/showthread.php?t=8698


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## PaulMac (Jul 15, 2003)

Franksmith said:


> How would that be? How could they confiscate them if they had no proof, markings or evidence of their country of origination? What law allows them to do so?
> 
> Can you prove this?
> 
> I could see them asking you to declare their origination BUT what happened to innocent until *proven* guilty?


Personally no...but I know of certain individuals, who had cigars seized and a letter saying they were welcome to come pick them up if they could prove they were not cuban.


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## FpDoc77 (Nov 30, 2005)

Da Klugs said:


> Then use the wonderful Private Messaging system built into this forum.
> 
> Good Karma..... Whoooooooo!!!!


Point taken Klugs. Plan to do so in the future.


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## Puffy69 (Sep 8, 2005)

Im glad I dont have to worry about this crap cuz I only smoke Dominicans..


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## Jeff (Jan 2, 2005)

SeanGAR said:


> Not being an alarmist or anything ... just thinking out loud here...


Nothing alarmist in your thoughts at all Sean. In my opinion, if the gov wants to bust you, they can come down on you like a ton of bricks. However, there are many people out there willing to accept the risk


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## Andyman (Jun 8, 2004)

Rock Star said:


> Im glad I dont have to worry about this crap cuz I only smoke Dominicans..


And as you can see I'm from Canada Eh'


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## RumblePen (May 17, 2005)

I always wondered about that whole Tommy Chong in jail bit. I mean, there are headshops all over the country that sell bongs! But I guess arresting some little guy in Maine doesn't get the district attorney's (or whoever got glory for the conviction) name in the headlines.


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## FpDoc77 (Nov 30, 2005)

Rumble I dont doubt it happened but it makes me wonder how they pulled it off.


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## mels95yj (Jun 4, 2005)

RumblePen said:


> I always wondered about that whole Tommy Chong in jail bit. I mean, there are headshops all over the country that sell bongs! But I guess arresting some little guy in Maine doesn't get the district attorney's (or whoever got glory for the conviction) name in the headlines.


All I know is there a shop locally that sells them. However, they don't call them bongs. I forget the exact terminology, but it's not a bong. They did a news piece on them. The owner said that if the customer makes any statement, joking or not, about pot, weed or anything drug-related, they have to kick them out of the store with no sale. They are not allowed back into the store neither. So, I guess if you're buying a table centerpiece or making a lamp out of it, you can buy as many as you want! :r

Mel


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## mosesbotbol (Sep 21, 2005)

mels95yj said:


> All I know is there a shop locally that sells them. However, they don't call them bongs. I forget the exact terminology, but it's not a bong. They did a news piece on them. The owner said that if the customer makes any statement, joking or not, about pot, weed or anything drug-related, they have to kick them out of the store with no sale. They are not allowed back into the store neither. So, I guess if you're buying a table centerpiece or making a lamp out of it, you can buy as many as you want! :r
> 
> Mel


"Water Pipe - for Tobacco Use Only" Have you seen how much smoke filling one of those up with tobacco produces? Like the smoke from half a cigar!


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## awhitaker (Sep 23, 2005)

Please refrain from using the words 'weed' and 'marijuana'. These words just like 'Cubans' are red flagged by the government. If you could please use the term 'green tobacco' and 'ISOMs' for 'Cubans'.

Thank you.

Oh yeah by the way the risk is hanging in the town square. Either that or quartering depending on if you live in Texas.


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## Andyman (Jun 8, 2004)

awhitaker said:


> Please refrain from using the words 'weed' and 'marijuana'. These words just like 'Cubans' are red flagged by the government. If you could please use the term 'green tobacco' and 'ISOMs' for 'Cubans'.
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> Oh yeah by the way the risk is hanging in the town square. Either that or quartering depending on if you live in Texas.


I am sure we have outsmarted the US Government by using the word ISOM instead of Cuban..


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## dayplanner (Dec 11, 1997)

awhitaker said:


> Please refrain from using the words 'weed' and 'marijuana'. These words just like 'Cubans' are red flagged by the government. If you could please use the term 'green tobacco' and 'ISOMs' for 'Cubans'.
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> Oh yeah by the way the risk is hanging in the town square. Either that or quartering depending on if you live in Texas.


:r :r Funny guy.


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## Stogiefanatic182 (Oct 28, 2005)

palm55 said:


> I've wondered the same...
> 
> It's a 55-mile run from where I am to Canada, and I'm sure quite a fine selection of Cubans... Trouble is, I'm more than a bit concerned about the trip back through the tunnel or over the bridge to Michigan, espcially in light of post-911 measures.
> 
> Ahh well... I'm having fun with the NC's... And I don't have to worry about stuffing Cubans into my pants and sweating it out at the border!


Im 3 hours from Canada by way of the thruway. Walked back into the states twice with no problems


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## Da Klugs (Jan 8, 2005)

If this was a make a wish thread.. I would wish this thread would go away. Any mod that wants to give me an early Birthday present..... 

It's like talking about tongue or mouth cancer. Obvious risks, lots of factual information available (elsewhere if you are morbid enough to look) but is not a positive karma enhancing activity to engage in or perpetuate a thread on.

:2


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## Stonefox (Nov 3, 2005)

Da Klugs said:


> If this was a make a wish thread.. I would wish this thread would go away. Any mod that wants to give me an early Birthday present.....
> 
> It's like talking about tongue or mouth cancer. Obvious risks, lots of factual information available (elsewhere if you are morbid enough to look) but is not a positive karma enhancing activity to engage in or perpetuate a thread on.
> 
> :2


 I agree! All this talk makes me nervous as I wait for a shipment of um nevermind  I better be quiet. You know what they say: Loose lips sink shipments.:hn


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## Andyman (Jun 8, 2004)

Da Klugs said:


> If this was a make a wish thread.. I would wish this thread would go away. Any mod that wants to give me an early Birthday present.....
> 
> It's like talking about tongue or mouth cancer. Obvious risks, lots of factual information available (elsewhere if you are morbid enough to look) but is not a positive karma enhancing activity to engage in or perpetuate a thread on.
> 
> :2


:tpd:


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## Mr. White (Dec 4, 2004)

Franksmith said:


> How would that be? How could they confiscate them if they had no proof, markings or evidence of their country of origination? What law allows them to do so?
> 
> Can you prove this?
> 
> I could see them asking you to declare their origination BUT what happened to innocent until *proven* guilty?


What? That was the America where they still needed to ask permission to search your car if they pulled you over for as little as not wearing a seat belt.

This is the New and Improved America, where it's legal for them to read your email, petition search engine companies like Google and Yahoo (Yahoo rolled over and gave them the info btw.) For our "searching" habits. etc.

There are freedoms you think you have, but they're being gobbled up every time they pass a new bill or law.

They can prosecute whenever they want. It's like illegal MP3 downloads, when there's pressure, they just send out a bunch of notices to people that they have been watching for a while, letting them know when their court date is.

You may do something illegal (and I'm not saying ANYONE is doing anything wrong at all, this is just conjecture.) and 5 years from now you might get a little note in the mail box. or have someone show up at your door.

Even your internet provider, especially if it's cable, has rolled over and started monitoring network traffic and reporting people who download what they consider to be illegal items such as MP3's, Movies, etc. However the ones that do usually have parent companies associated with, like bigger production companies. Like TIme/Warner for instance.

I haven't heard of providers like the bells doing it yet, but I've got friends with cable providers who have gotten the notices in the mail to cease and desist, saying that they have reported them to authorities and that if the action continues they will cancel their internet access. Nothing's been said or done yet, but yeah, you can bet their name is in a database or 10 now.

P.S. Our Government is admittedly slow, but I'm pretty sure ISOM has made it into their databases over at the ATF. hehe.


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## icehog3 (Feb 20, 2005)

PaulMac said:


> all I gotta say is...in the third link....that gas mask bong is the coolest thing ever! lol
> Bet Icehog wants it on the island with him


I had a similar one in high school....my Mom found it in my closet. Not a good day.


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## PaulMac (Jul 15, 2003)

icehog3 said:


> I had a similar one in high school....my Mom found it in my closet. Not a good day.


first run through in college I was an engineering major....we a creative bunch I will say that


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## icehog3 (Feb 20, 2005)

Franksmith said:


> How would that be? How could they confiscate them if they had no proof, markings or evidence of their country of origination? What law allows them to do so?
> 
> Can you prove this?
> 
> I could see them asking you to declare their origination BUT what happened to innocent until *proven* guilty?


Rules of seizure are not the same as the standards for an arrest or a search warrant. The latter having a standard of "probable cause", with the seizures being subject to "reasonable suspicion". Not necessarily fair, but dat's da way it is.


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## icehog3 (Feb 20, 2005)

Da Klugs said:


> If this was a make a wish thread.. I would wish this thread would go away. Any mod that wants to give me an early Birthday present.....
> 
> It's like talking about tongue or mouth cancer. Obvious risks, lots of factual information available (elsewhere if you are morbid enough to look) but is not a positive karma enhancing activity to engage in or perpetuate a thread on.
> 
> :2


For my third post in this thread....I'm with Dave too.


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## RumblePen (May 17, 2005)

If you don't want to be reminded of the risks, then don't read the thread, it's as simple as that. I see no reason to sweep this thread under the rug (although I'm pretty sure you guys were kidding anyway). 

It's been pretty informative and has saved me some money (about the cost of a box of Le Hoya Du Princes--thanks Klugs, for giving me the first stick to make me crave it's flavor like a vampire for blood...you bastard!) and some theoretical jail time.

Although, I'm still thinking about buying a decorative piece of glass for my coffee table.


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## Bigga Petey (Mar 25, 2005)

I have brought Koobans back into the states in my front shirt pocket from Canada. "No sir. Nothing to declare," as he is eyeballing the sticks in my pocket. Didn't want to risk losing a box, even though I wouldn't buy one in Canada anyway. One needs to leave a pound of flesh for what good sticks cost over there. 

Furthermore, I believe the financial risk far outweighs the legal. Once a few good 'imported' cigars are sampled, and the appetite whetted, the spectres of financial confusion and deficits are sure to follow. :hn


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## opus (Jun 21, 2005)

To quote an idiot with a penchant for simple truths..."Stupid is as stupid does"


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## RumblePen (May 17, 2005)

opusxox said:


> To quote an idiot with a penchant for simple truths..."Stupid is as stupid does"


Hey, Forest's mom was no idiot!


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