# Whisky and cigars. Or whiskey, if you prefer.



## Favvers (Jan 30, 2013)

I fancied a quick smoke and a nice whisky tonight, so I've gone for a J. Fuego Origen Ltd Original and a glass of Lagavulin 12 (2009 bottling). Normally, I don't pair very peaty scotch with cigars as I think the best pairings work on contrast, unless you find a really good match.

But the L12 is much sweeter and softer than Lagavulin 16 so I thought I'd give it a try. The L12 possibly lacks some of the complexity Lagavulin is famous for but it's a delicious scotch nonetheless. Some of the later releases have been harsher apparently - I haven't tried them - but this release works really well with this particular cigar. 

Origen Originals have a reputation of being pretty robust little smokes (I'd post links to some other puffers' excellent reviews but I can't yet!) which I totally agree with. The L12 has a lemony top note, and some briny, salted caramel flavours that contrast nicely with the hefty leather and spice of the cigar. The peat is there of course, but it's tamed enough so as not to fight the flavours of the cigar - more beach barbecue than pile of burning tyres. The result is a rounded mix of flavours which I think are totally complimentary. Caol Ila 12, which might be easier to get hold of, might give a similar result.


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## Favvers (Jan 30, 2013)

Sorry, there should be a picture with this but I can't seem to make it appear.


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## GoJohnnyGo (Nov 19, 2011)

Lagavulin 12 is one of the few Islay scotches,on my list, that I haven't gotten around to yet. I really want to grab a bottle because I love the 16 so much. I've also really been enjoying the cask strength stuff lately. Geez, I need to get on the ball with this. I do love coal ila 12. Thanks for making me thirsty.


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## Favvers (Jan 30, 2013)

Cask strength is the way to go! Try before you buy with the L12 I reckon. From what I've read, each year's release is quite different. The 2009 is mellow by Lagavulin standards but people seem to find the later ones pretty peaty. I love Caol Ila 12 too. It used to be quite widely available in the UK (like Ardbeg 10 and even Uigeadail) but it's online or specialist shops now.


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## HIM (Sep 12, 2012)

Smoking a Herrera Esteli and drinking Bulleit Rye. Really liking the pairing.


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## RocknRoll (Jul 22, 2013)

I just had an Excalibur Epicure with some 1792 Ridgemont Reserve. 

No thought involved in either the setting up or the execution on this pairing. Just enjoyed it for what it was ... me, a cigar and some bourbon.


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## ejewell (Feb 19, 2013)

I like your clarification on the nomenclature of beverages.  
Not a lot of people recognize a difference. Thumbs up.


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## Frodo (Oct 1, 2009)

I like Laga 16 with Padron '64 Maduros but generally prefer bourbon or rum to scotch when pairing...


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## Favvers (Jan 30, 2013)

ejewell said:


> I like your clarification on the nomenclature of beverages.
> Not a lot of people recognize a difference. Thumbs up.


Whisky geek, that's my excuse! Of course it gets complicated as some US manufacturers use whisky to describe their bourbon and some make whiskey that's more akin to scotch but still call it whiskey. That's before you consider Ireland.


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## Favvers (Jan 30, 2013)

Frodo said:


> I like Laga 16 with Padron '64 Maduros but generally prefer bourbon or rum to scotch when pairing...


I'm the same. I rarely drink scotch with a cigar, which is why I thought I'd start this thread. I think it comes down to that sweetness that works so well with cigars that's more commonly associated with bourbon or rum. Some scotch is quite dry and best enjoyed alone. That said there are plenty of sweet malts and blends - I'm going to dig out some of my Speyside malts and see what works there.

Brandy is another good cigar spirit of course.


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## ammymorcle (Jul 27, 2013)

I don't drink scotch with cigar.


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## DrumComp (Jul 28, 2013)

I just got back from the liquor store.... and now I remember why I don't pair scotch whisky and cigars. The 18 year old bottle of Bunnahabhain was a mere 95 dollars. I was going pair it with a LP No.9(I have never had it). But alas I couldn't afford it right now... but I am think about it for my birthday.

So my question is do you guys think this would be a good pair?


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## Favvers (Jan 30, 2013)

DrumComp said:


> I just got back from the liquor store.... and now I remember why I don't pair scotch whisky and cigars. The 18 year old bottle of Bunnahabhain was a mere 95 dollars. I was going pair it with a LP No.9(I have never had it). But alas I couldn't afford it right now... but I am think about it for my birthday.
> 
> So my question is do you guys think this would be a good pair?


I'm not quite sure - I've never tried the cigar you suggest. I remember Bunnahabhain 18 being quite savoury and woody, but not very peaty, as you'd expect from a Bunnahabhain. If anything I think it would work best paired with a sweet-tasting cigar, but it would be interesting to hear what others think.


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## DrumComp (Jul 28, 2013)

Yup yup. The liga privada no. 9 by Drew Estate is supposed to be sweet and savory cocoa. Medium-Full bodied. So I was looking for sweet scotch. I could cut the price in half if went down to 12 year bottle. But was looking for advice before taking the plunge.


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## Favvers (Jan 30, 2013)

DrumComp said:


> Yup yup. The liga privada no. 9 by Drew Estate is supposed to be sweet and savory cocoa. Medium-Full bodied. So I was looking for sweet scotch. I could cut the price in half if went down to 12 year bottle. But was looking for advice before taking the plunge.


Honestly then, I'd go for a whisky with a sweeter profile in general and little to no peat, unless you've simply got to have a peaty one. Dalmores, Aberlour, especially Aberlour a'Bunadh, older Glenrothes (12 is a bit light), maybe older Balvennies, Dalwhinnies or Glenmorangies.

If you really like peat, maybe Ardbeg Blasda or Uigeadial, or a Caol Ila. Generally I think peat, and especially the medicinal taste you get with some pleated whiskies, is quite hard to successfully match with a cigar. Don't get me wrong, I love pleated whisky but tend not to drink it with cigars.

A good pointer is Dalmore's purpose designed Cigar Malt. The flavour is big and sherried with a marmalade sweetness. Lots of burnt toffee and caramel. It was designed to match, specifically, a Partagas Serie D No. 4, obviously a woody, spicy powerhouse cigar. I tend to follow this kind of principal to match cigars with booze.

You've made me really want a smoke and a drink now... Good luck, let us know what you decide on.


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## Frodo (Oct 1, 2009)

DrumComp said:


> Yup yup. The liga privada no. 9 by Drew Estate is supposed to be sweet and savory cocoa. Medium-Full bodied. So I was looking for sweet scotch.


16yr Glenlevit Naddura. Sweet with sweet. And the Naddura (although semi-pricey) is cask-strength and one of the better bargains around...

Here's the thing though. If you are looking to pinch pennies, perhaps think about pairing with Bourbon. Wild Turkey is on the sweeter side of Bourbon and can be found for reasonable prices in the US (like the Wild Turkey Rare Breed).


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## Tommystephen01 (Jul 19, 2013)

According to my knowledge if you take both at same time it's a harmful for you so, don't take a risk


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## GoJohnnyGo (Nov 19, 2011)

Tommystephen01 said:


> According to my knowledge if you take both at same time it's a harmful for you so, don't take a risk


What?


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## ookoshi (Jul 24, 2013)

My Sunday afternoon ritual is a glass of Highland Park 12yr and a cigar.

During the week I usually drink bourbon, which I think makes me appreciate the smoothness of a good single malt more.


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## Favvers (Jan 30, 2013)

ookoshi said:


> My Sunday afternoon ritual is a glass of Highland Park 12yr and a cigar.
> 
> During the week I usually drink bourbon, which I think makes me appreciate the smoothness of a good single malt more.


Highland Park 12 is great, my friend also has it as his house malt. It's accessible to most people but still interesting. Have you discovered any particularly good cigar pairings?


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## ookoshi (Jul 24, 2013)

Recently I've been smoking some milder cigars and the most memorable pairing was the Gurkha Grand Reserve Robusto. They were both smooth and complemented each other well.


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## DrumComp (Jul 28, 2013)

Thanks for the advice guys. I ended up buying the bottle that night. This is what I learned...


Tommystephen01 said:


> According to my knowledge if you take both at same time it's a harmful for you so, don't take a risk


Could be true if your area has been battling heatwave and you drink&smoke too much outside.



Frodo said:


> 16yr Glenlevit Naddura. Sweet with sweet. And the Naddura (although semi-pricey) is cask-strength and one of the better bargains around...
> 
> Here's the thing though. If you are looking to pinch pennies, perhaps think about pairing with Bourbon. Wild Turkey is on the sweeter side of Bourbon and can be found for reasonable prices in the US (like the Wild Turkey Rare Breed).


The Naddura was what my buddies and I had picked first, but then I spotted the The 18 year old bottle of Bunnahabhain. Which was switched to the 12 year bottle instead[$97 vs $43], that ended up being a little to peaty. As for the Bourbon that is our bread and butter, and we were looking to mix it up a-bit, so it was out.



Favvers said:


> Honestly then, I'd go for a whisky with a sweeter profile in general and little to no peat, unless you've simply got to have a peaty one. Dalmores, Aberlour, especially Aberlour a'Bunadh, older Glenrothes (12 is a bit light), maybe older Balvennies, Dalwhinnies or Glenmorangies.
> 
> If you really like peat, maybe Ardbeg Blasda or Uigeadial, or a Caol Ila. Generally I think peat, and especially the medicinal taste you get with some pleated whiskies, is quite hard to successfully match with a cigar. Don't get me wrong, I love pleated whisky but tend not to drink it with cigars.
> 
> ...


:thumb: Probably the best advice given:thumb: Unfortunately they Didn't have the Cigar malt.


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## DrumComp (Jul 28, 2013)

Ok, So the cigar was fantastic, and the Scotch was good, but it was a match not meant to be...

During the first 1/3 of cigar the pair was like a fantasy, my pallet could not get enough. But slowly the peat started to build and by the end of the glass I knew it wasn't good match. But we had a back up.... Hefeweissbier Dark and Hefe-weiss-Dunkel :beerchug: MMMMmmmmm Now that's some good beer.


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## HIM (Sep 12, 2012)

The best pairing I've found for the LP9 is Glenlivet 15 French oak. Both have a nice similarity in their pepper notes and cinnamon zing. Though to be honest about 90% of the time I prefer to enjoy my cigars and spirits separately so they each get my full attention. A bad pairing easily brings down the experience of a great cigar or whisky/whiskey.


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## Frodo (Oct 1, 2009)

DrumComp said:


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> 
> 
> ...





HIM said:


> The best pairing I've found for the LP9 is Glenlivet 15 French oak. Both have a nice similarity in their pepper notes and cinnamon zing. Though to be honest about 90% of the time I prefer to enjoy my cigars and spirits separately so they each get my full attention. A bad pairing easily brings down the experience of a great cigar or whisky/whiskey.


There's a couple of good lessons here I think.

1) Just because you like a scotch does not mean it will pair with a particular cigar.

2) Unless a Scotch whisky has lots of sweetness, it may be best appropriated separately from cigars.

I find scotch pairings with cigars to generally be temperamental. They can work, but it can be more hit or miss (for me) than bourbon or rum.


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## Favvers (Jan 30, 2013)

Frodo said:


> There's a couple of good lessons here I think.
> 
> 1) Just because you like a scotch does not mean it will pair with a particular cigar.
> 
> ...


Good summation. Scotch is never my go-to spirit when I want to smoke. Some do work but rum or bourbon is so much easier.



DrumComp said:


> Thanks for the advice guys. I ended up buying the bottle that night. This is what I learned...
> 
> Could be true if your area has been battling heatwave and you drink&smoke too much outside.
> 
> ...


Honestly, I wouldn't actually buy the cigar malt. It's simply overpriced I think - goes for about £70 here, and for that you can pick up some far more interesting bottles. It lacks complexity and is just very powerful and sweet. Nice sure, but you can get that from loads of other, less expensive drams.


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## DrumComp (Jul 28, 2013)

Frodo said:


> There's a couple of good lessons here I think.
> 
> 1) Just because you like a scotch does not mean it will pair with a particular cigar.
> 
> ...


Yup I am slowly learning. We still had a good night.


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## Benthe8track (May 21, 2013)

I'm an Islay freak so I can pair an Ardbeg with anything but a great combo I found recently was a 1926 Padron and 18y/o Laphroaig.
Bourbons (Buffalo Trace is such a gem for the price) seem to pair better with my CCs:monte #2s , hoyo DCs, PunchPunch,.

For you experienced Whisky folk is there an Irish Whisky worth drinking?


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## Favvers (Jan 30, 2013)

Benthe8track said:


> I'm an Islay freak so I can pair an Ardbeg with anything but a great combo I found recently was a 1926 Padron and 18y/o Laphroaig.
> Bourbons (Buffalo Trace is such a gem for the price) seem to pair better with my CCs:monte #2s , hoyo DCs, PunchPunch,.
> 
> For you experienced Whisky folk is there an Irish Whisky worth drinking?


I'm not a big fan of Irish whiskey, but generally Midleton (correct spelling) is good, if a bit on the expensive side.


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## crgcpro (Jul 1, 2012)




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## crgcpro (Jul 1, 2012)

Irish Whiskey-My favorite was Jameson 12 year until some of my Irish buddies turned me onto Paddy
Bourbon-Booker's, Baker's, and Basil Hayden
Scotch-Not a big Scotch drinker but I absolutely love Macallan 18. Macallan 12 is delicious as well. Macallan 25 when I'm burning my casino comps is unfrickingbelievable but it'll break the pocketbook as a regular thing.

BTW I just poured my 9-12 fingers of Baker's over some Whisky Stones. Highly recommend getting some Whisky Stones if you don't mix your Whiskeys! Whisky Stones

Pro


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## Favvers (Jan 30, 2013)

crgcpro said:


> Irish Whiskey-My favorite was Jameson 12 year until some of my Irish buddies turned me onto Paddy
> Bourbon-Booker's, Baker's, and Basil Hayden
> Scotch-Not a big Scotch drinker but I absolutely love Macallan 18. Macallan 12 is delicious as well. Macallan 25 when I'm burning my casino comps is unfrickingbelievable but it'll break the pocketbook as a regular thing.
> 
> ...


I haven't had Baker's or Booker's, what are those like? I love bourbon and wish there was a better choice in the UK. Specialist shops stock a few but then you over pay by a huge margin. I couldn't believe the price of some decent bourbons when I was in New Orleans a couple of years back. We pay at least twice as much in the UK for exactly the same bottle.


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## Frodo (Oct 1, 2009)

Benthe8track said:


> For you experienced Whisky folk is there an Irish Whisky worth drinking?


A safe choice would be Redbreast 12yr. Great quality, reasonable price. The total absence of smoke will be...noticed until you get acclimatized to it.


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## Frodo (Oct 1, 2009)

Favvers said:


> I haven't had Baker's or Booker's, what are those like? I love bourbon and wish there was a better choice in the UK. Specialist shops stock a few but then you over pay by a huge margin. I couldn't believe the price of some decent bourbons when I was in New Orleans a couple of years back. We pay at least twice as much in the UK for exactly the same bottle.


In the UK, the great deals are on older scotch whisky bottles. JW Black is similar price anywhere you go, but say, 30yr Ballantines will be much cheaper in your neck of the woods. In my neck of the woods, older Cdn whisky (20+ yrs) is the bargain.


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## crgcpro (Jul 1, 2012)

Favvers said:


> I haven't had Baker's or Booker's, what are those like? I love bourbon and wish there was a better choice in the UK. Specialist shops stock a few but then you over pay by a huge margin. I couldn't believe the price of some decent bourbons when I was in New Orleans a couple of years back. We pay at least twice as much in the UK for exactly the same bottle.


Baker's is very smooth and tasty. It's 107 proof but very drinkable when you want to pound a few back. Booker's on the hand is usually around 138 proof. Definitely sipping whisky. Best to drink it straight with some Whisky stones-an ice cube if you don't have stones. Too many of those will f.........k you up pretty good though.


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## Favvers (Jan 30, 2013)

crgcpro said:


> Baker's is very smooth and tasty. It's 107 proof but very drinkable when you want to pound a few back. Booker's on the hand is usually around 138 proof. Definitely sipping whisky. Best to drink it straight with some Whisky stones-an ice cube if you don't have stones. Too many of those will f.........k you up pretty good though.


Thanks Bart, I'll look out for some next time I'm at The Whisky Exchange, which is the easiest specialist shop I can get to.



Frodo said:


> In the UK, the great deals are on older scotch whisky bottles. JW Black is similar price anywhere you go, but say, 30yr Ballantines will be much cheaper in your neck of the woods. In my neck of the woods, older Cdn whisky (20+ yrs) is the bargain.


True. I've been buying a lot of single cask stuff recently, because the standard expressions have got so expensive the difference in price is not really that high. Booze of any sort is expensive in the UK. I went to Japan earlier this year, and despite the fact it had travelled halfway around the world, a bottle of say, Ardbeg 10 was actually a few pounds cheaper. Crazy.


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## HIM (Sep 12, 2012)

Ever check out the whiskey exchange website? Lots of great stuff on there I'd never have a chance to buy from any store around here.


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## Favvers (Jan 30, 2013)

HIM said:


> Ever check out the whiskey exchange website? Lots of great stuff on there I'd never have a chance to buy from any store around here.


I do, there is a great selection, but I quite like going to their shop in Borough Market. It's connected to a pretty decent wine merchant's too so it's not a great hardship (except on the bank balance).


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## HIM (Sep 12, 2012)

Yea I don't have that option, won't lie I'm a bit jealous lol. That's like having a great local B&M.


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## craftbeerfan (Jul 31, 2013)

Bourbon Whiskeys are the best, had a lot of them at Craft Beer Kings. Bourbon Whiskeys are for any season. =)


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## Favvers (Jan 30, 2013)

I agree they are good any time. I have to be in the mood for a particular kind of scotch before pouring a glass.


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