# Counterfeit Analysis: Glass Tubed RyJ Churchills



## dayplanner (Dec 11, 1997)

Welcome to this chapter of Counterfeit Cubans: Exposed! This time, we're going to take a look at an absolutely fascinating specimen. This sample first came to light here. I contacted forum member IslesFan and was able to acquire it for the archives. Mike, thank you for making it possible for me to share this with the online cigar community.

Counterfeits are almost always intended to be direct copies of their genuine counterparts. At least they attempt to mimic the general appearance of the item with sufficient fidelity such that casual scrutiny would not raise any red flags. This style of counterfeits could be called "knock-offs."

Another category of counterfeits plays it a little looser and you might find vitolas that don't actually exist in the marca. For example, Hoyo de Monterrey Piramides, Montecristo Churchills, and Partagas Robustos (not the Serie D No. 4 which is of the robustos _vitola de galera_ but an actual "Robusto" _vitola de salida_ designation which you would find on the box.) It appears that these are attempts to attach popular vitolas to any marca whether or not such things are actually in regular production. As these items have no analog in the ranks of the authentic, they might be called "bogus." While most of these are pretty pedestrian, once in a blue moon, you come across one that is as audacious as it is artful. Such is the case with the cigar we're going to take a closer look at.

While I have come across many counterfeit tubos such as Punch Churchills and Cohiba Siglo VI, the RyJ Churchills is probably the most common because it is familiar almost to the point of becoming iconic. This one, however, is unique. It is a rendering of the classic Romeo y Julieta Churchills tubo *in glass!*

in this first photo, an authentic RyJ Churchills tubo is the cigar on the left and the glass tubed specimen is on the right. In the _pairing_ on the left, we see the external details of both items, full length. The counterfeit comes in a plain glass tube, much like a test tube. In contrast to the authentic item which has the printing applied directly to the tube surface, the glass tube actually has a printed adhesive label applied to it. It is this label that contains all the print details of the real thing. There are two notable aspects of this label. First, the label stock has a satin finish providing a nice translucent surface to provide contrast for the printing. Second, they've added a tiny graphic of the island of Cuba to the left of the word "Romeo" at the cap end.

The cap is not a screw-on unit as is found on the aluminum tube but a simple lathe-turned or plug-cut wooden stopper that's held on by the "Handmade Habanos" adhesive label at the cap end. As a result of this design, the overall length of the counterfeit is about a quarter inch longer than the real thing.

Let's take a closer look at some of the external details. In this next photo pairing, we see a close-up of the head end of the tubes. There are obvious but slight differences in the fonts and typography but nothing that would jump out at the eye unless an authentic specimen were on hand to compare against. If the fact that the cigar was in glass did not tip one off, tiny details such as this would not be of much additional help.

Turning to the backs of the tubes, we see pretty much what we saw on the front. The makers of this counterfeit did a reasonably good job of mimicking the real thing. They even included the recycling symbol to the right of the main text box. This symbol is missing from my tube as it is pre-2000.

Referring back to the first photo, in the right hand side pairing, we see the two naked cigars. Aside from a slight length differential and a shade difference in the band, they don't appear radically different. The wrapper leaf does not appear totally out of character and if you were to hand me an unbanded specimen, I would not be immediately suspicious. However, closer inspection would reveal some details that would be cause for concern. As usual, comparison against an authentic reference specimen highlights the differences one can notice.

This next photo is a close-up of the bands. There are clear differences again in the font and typography and these are of a qualitative and not quantitative nature. *Quantitative* differences are appearance variations one would expect based on normal variations in the production process used to produce them. For example, shallower or deeper embossing, print registration, opacity of the metallic pigment (bronze ink). These properties vary along a spectrum from perfect to poor, light to dark, and shallow to deep. This type of feature difference can almost never be used to gauge authenticity with any degree of confidence.

*Qualitative* differences are differences that cannot occur if authentic materials and processes are used. For example, if the font should be serif (Times Roman) but appears sans serif (Helvetica). Or if white squares that should be the exact same width as a black grid appears only 40% of the width. These differences are _impossible_ in the authentic item and are _immediately_ diagnostic of counterfeit status. The only exceptions are in the vitola printing on the sides of dress boxes. I have, on occasion seen qualitative differences that I suspect are a result of "that's Cuba" type situations involving either materials or training issues.

In this photo, we see a mix of quantitative and qualitative differences. Can you guess which is which? We have registration of the print/emboss details relative to the trimming of the band. We have a difference in the appearance of the metallic nature of the band. We also see subtle differences in the fonts which I already indicated where of a qualitative nature. In this case, by the time I've noted these differences, I would be pretty confident about calling fake. But for instructional purposes, let's look at the two ends of the cigars.

In this next photo, I show the heads and the feet. The head shot is pretty illuminating. The authentic specimen on the left shows a well constructed head with the classic "triple cap" appearance. The fake on the right has a bizarre appearance that I've never seen on a Cuban cigar whether _totalmente_ or _mecanizado_ in manufacture.

The feet are somewhat less revealing. The authentic specimen is perhaps a bit underfilled but appears reasonably bunched and uniform with an acceptable number of stems of small diameter. The counterfeit does not appear horrible by comparison. The center of the bunch does not appear to be packed with short filler and the bunching is not unusual. There does appear to be quite a few stems though and they appear substantial but not grotesquely so.

And that's a look at one of the more artful counterfeits in my archive. As fakes go, a specimen like this is a genuine pleasure to behold. The challenge and interest in a case such as this is not merely in determining whether it is in fact genuine. Here, that was the least interesting question to address. In this case, I tried to understand the motivation that gave birth to something so audacious. The challenge was in reverse-manufacturing the processes used to create such a curious and ingenious homage to the iconic Romeo y Julieta Churchill.

Wilkey


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## MeNimbus (Dec 18, 2006)

Thank you for the great comparison between the fake and real RyJ. I wouldn't be able to tell the difference between the two. 

The fake looks very good and if that was at my B&M I would've picked it up. =/


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## NCRadioMan (Feb 28, 2005)

I love this channel!! 


Thanks Wilkey!


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## Sandman (Mar 26, 2006)

Thank you for another great analysis.


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## carni (Jan 18, 2007)

That is a pretty sweet camera to capture the plume on the real RyJ. Don'y see that too often.


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## Fumioso (Apr 28, 2006)

Another fascinating analysis. Thanks Wilkey!  

A question though: has anyone ever seen a fake with a triple cap? How much skill is involved with applying a triple cap -- is it so difficult that counterfeits never (or rarely) have them?


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## ToddziLLa (Oct 17, 2005)

Nothing surprising here...excellent work by a BOTL who cares about the shared passion we all have. I commend you Sir -- you have done and continue to do great work for our community.


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## carni (Jan 18, 2007)

Fumioso said:


> Another fascinating analysis. Thanks Wilkey!
> 
> A question though: has anyone ever seen a fake with a triple cap? How much skill is involved with applying a triple cap -- is it so difficult that counterfeits never (or rarely) have them?


I have actually seen fakes with 4 caps. The triple cap is an extra quality trademark of c.c. It is done in Don Pepein lines but does not involve a great deal of difficulty. Triple cap does slow production a little which is why you do not see them in machine made c.c. or a majority of hand made n.c.


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## dayplanner (Dec 11, 1997)

Fumioso,

The triple cap method is sometimes referred to as the "vuelta" or flag method of closing the head. As carni noted, it is a technique that is particular to Cuban totalmente a mano parejos. Also as noted, various non-Cuban brands use them for example Tatuaje. 

As to whether I have seen them on counterfeits, the answer is yes. Some counterfeits are visually indistinguishable from the real thing. 

One other thing to keep in mind is that while the nominal appearance is three layers, this exact number is only seen typically on one face or angle of the cigar. If you look carefully, authentic Habanos may display anywhere from 2-4 layers or more. Here are an LGC Tainos and SLR DC that show four layers.


Wilkey


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## Ermo (Jun 3, 2006)

Thanks Wilkey!!

Another great post.


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## dunng (Jul 14, 2006)

Another great in depth post. Thanks for all the hard work! :ss


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## earnold25 (Oct 5, 2006)

great post. thanks!


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## gvarsity (Dec 12, 2006)

Thanks for the enlightening lesson.


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## Bubba -NJ (Dec 6, 2005)

These are always a must read , great job 3x5card , and thank you for sharing your knowledge .


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## dyj48 (May 1, 2006)

Wilkey,

Doesn't this indicate something perhaps a bit more ominous. I'm assuming that counterfeiting cuban cigars have been around for a long time, but it seems that the level of sophistication in reproducing these are increasing. If true, it may mean that for many of us lay smokers, it will become much more difficult in differentiating counterfeit cigars from the real thing. 

Obviously, just looking at the band, the caps, the containers and the boxes aren't enough these days. Of course, the final test is simply the taste test, but still for many of us newbs, it makes our examination of our acquisitions pretty limited. 

Nothing beats education, and knowing your retailer, but geez, it's a bit scary to be spending a bunch of bucks on fakes.....

As usual, thanks for your continual work on exposing these cigars.


Davis


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## Old Sailor (Jul 27, 2006)

A most excellent report, and enjoyed the read.....nice to actually see the difference....Thanks


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## dayplanner (Dec 11, 1997)

dyj48 said:


> Wilkey,
> 
> Doesn't this indicate something perhaps a bit more ominous. I'm assuming that counterfeiting cuban cigars have been around for a long time, but it seems that the level of sophistication in reproducing these are increasing. If true, it may mean that for many of us lay smokers, it will become much more difficult in differentiating counterfeit cigars from the real thing.
> 
> ...


Davis,

You're right in that cigar counterfeiting has been around a long time and also that the effort and sophistication seem to be rapidly increasing. Over the course of the last year, the proportion of fakes that are indistinguishable from the real thing has been rising. I would go so far as to say that the casual or occasional smoker or smoker of Habanos would have little chance of identifying one of the good counterfeits. And by this, I'm speaking primarily of the off-island counterfeits made in places like Mexico, the Dominican Republic, and other places using no Cuban tobacco.

So the $64 dollar question is: How can I be sure that I'm buying the real thing? Isn't that the real concern for all of us and especially for those new to the hobby?

Here are my thoughts on this. Please keep in mind that these are just my opinions on the matter and they should not be construed as advice.

1. Buy from dealers on whom the consensus is positive. Better yet, seek out those dealers who have never had an issue raised as to authenticity. This isn't the same as saying simply buy from a dealer who appears reputable. The standard is more stringent than that and requires that you spend some time getting to know your more experienced gorillas so that you can begin to have frank discussions about vendors. Just as the counterfeiters have their own network, the Habanophiles do as well. *Knowledge and community are part of our defense.* But this doesn't mean that sources should be shared or traded like baseball cards. The best of sources are an invaluable asset to the serious Habanophile community and as such they should be guarded. Use your own personal judgement. I always have a few reputable and public "beginners" sources to hand out in case I'm asked.

2. Scrutinize everything that you buy and come across with an eye toward understanding the entire package. Get to know the bands, construction, boxes, labeling, and more. Just because you are now buying from a trustworthy vendor (and not simply "trusted," do you see the difference?) *does not mean that you should cease to be vigilant.* I can name two instances of cigars/packaging that came from a trustworthy source that were not right. One was a simple manufacturing error and the other was a significant change that impacts the battery of tests that can be used to diagnose fakes. I would not have been able to get to the root of either of these issues if I didn't have a good relationship with the vendor and I didn't know that these differences were well out of the range of what is considered normal.

3. One very important aspect of this ongoing learning and observation is that you will get a sense for the range of variation that you could reasonably expect to see over time and over numerous samples. A good number of the authentication requests I get are a result of the person not having a sense of what could be considered "normal variation." They will see something in one cigar that differs from the only other cigar they've had and will get concerned that they have a fake. This sense will help you see what is a genuine "that's Cuba" situation and what might actually be cause for concern.

With the exception of a few publicly known vendors, there are not many sources that a casual smoker of Havana cigars can count on for authentic goods. That said, most of the members of online cigar forums are a bit more dedicated than the average cigar dabbler so I think these points will resonate.

Wilkey


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## maphic (Jan 30, 2007)

awesome thread. i just learned alot


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## nozero (Jul 7, 2007)

My thanks to all who contributed to this thread. VERY helpful!

:tu


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## Coffee Grounds (Feb 14, 2007)

Great Post


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## RHNewfie (Mar 21, 2007)

Great thread! Thanks!!


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## dj1809 (Jun 16, 2007)

Very cool and informative post.
Another reason the hobby is a fascinating one.


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## thebiglebowski (Dec 19, 2005)

wow. thanks for resurrecting this post.


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