# Cigar Aficionado Editorial about "POT"



## Tabloid Snapper

I seldom make comments on editorial or letter to the editors. But this one struck home what the FDA is slamming legal cigar maker with rules, that will cost them, and the consume pay more for what was once a legal comity with few regulations. CIGARS.

Yet Medical Pot or Recreational Pot will be on the next Tuesday ballots in many states. Some states already have medical pot, and recreational pot. My state will vote next Tuesday for full recreational pot, and I hope it goes down in flames.

Give me a break FDA leave the cigar industry alone. Cigars don't cause the social problems POT is causing in Washington State & Colorado. Just two recent examples of stupid voter being fool by the Medical / Recreational Pot lobby.

I honestly in my lifetime never ever thought I would see the day when State legalized recreational pot.

The FDA need to leave the Cigar inductry alone, and the Justice Dept & DEA need to go full blast on the War on Drug including enforcing FEDERAL POT LAWS. JMHO


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## UBC03

To preface my comments I rarely drink and get drug tested often so I don't partake in cannabis. In my younger days it was a whole different story.

I've had friends die from cirrhosis at a relatively young age. I've never lost any of my old pot head buddies to excessive weed consumption. 

The tax benefit to the states that legalized are in the hundreds of millions. For something that people will buy tax free if it was illegal. The main issue most states are having is testing how high the person is when pulled over and the thc content of edibles. I've read about accidental ingestion by minors but they don't list the amount of children that accidentally ingest alcohol.

This is like anything else. If you're pro, you'll find the positive things in it

If you're against, you'll find the negatives.

Myself, obviously I'm pro legalization. Won't smoke it regardless because it's not federally legal. So it will still be a reason to fail a drug test at places I work. 

As I mentioned it's not federally legal and is regulated on a state by state basis and not under the control of the fda as far as I know.

Again to each his own. Everything in moderation. Pot, booze, sex, anything that's done for enjoyment can be taken to the extreme and become a detriment to that person and people in their life.

Just my 0.02$



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## Regiampiero

I hope they legalize pot, that way they can tax that and leave cigars alone.

As far as the FDA regulation, let's just hope they lose the lawsuit from cra and ipcpr. Given the FDA's record on lawsuits it might just happen. 

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## WinsorHumidors

I agree with cannabis legality ... not too many pot smokers die prematurely ... alcohol is a killer of men and young adults alike ... yet it is legal everywhere.

I don't agree with the ages of either though ... the human brain does not mature until 25 years ... before that ... smoke and imbibe at your own peril.

CT


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## SeanTheEvans

I fear that the prison industry will take a HUGE hit if pot becomes legal, and we wouldn't want THAT to happen, right? :vs_unimpressed:

As far as pot vs cigars, I don't see any relation. That's like comparing cigarettes to oxycotin or heroin. Apples to Automobiles. 

I don't see who any of this could hurt (pot, cigars, cigarettes, alcohol, drugs in general, etc) besides the individual using, until the point when some other laws already in place are broken. As long as you're not committing violence, being disruptive to society in general - I'm a fan of personal freedoms and the choice to do what one wants with their own body. Just don't go around messing up other folks' lives with your choices. Simple enough.

At least that's what I thought freedom was all about


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## Regiampiero

WinsorHumidors said:


> I agree with cannabis legality ... not too many pot smokers die prematurely ... alcohol is a killer of men and young adults alike ... yet it is legal everywhere.
> 
> I don't agree with the ages of either though ... the human brain does not mature until 25 years ... before that ... smoke and imbibe at your own peril.
> 
> CT


Well...yes there a lot people that die from all sorts of substances when they're abused, but to blame the substance doesn't solve the problem. The problem lies in the people and the way they see that substance. Growing up in Italy, where all fathers let their kids drink a little bit of their wine/beer, and where mothers give a little grappa to their kids when they're teething, I can tell you that exposure to alcohol at an early age isn't the problem. In fact its the total opposite. In my teen-age years I noticed the kids that were more sheltered were always the ones getting into trouble for drugs and alcohol abuse. Creating that forbidden fruit mentality is just as dangerous among kids (if not more) that increasing the drinking age in adults. Not to mention the hypocrisy in the law as it stands. You can die for your country at 18, but you can't toast to it. The open minded way I was raised is what I thank God (and my father) everyday for, and the reason why through High-school and college I was offered pot many times and never felt the urge to try it. Not saying pot is bad, but I just never felt the need to oblige.


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## MidwestToker

You can hate smoking pot with the heat of a thousand suns, however I'd hope you would have compassion for the lives our outdated and ridiculous legal system has ruined.

We know a few things for sure: 1) pot is not chemically addictive. Sure, you can be dependent on it, but your body won't go through detox without it. That's not true of alcohol or nicotine. 2) Pot is relatively harmless when smoked in moderation. It's no more of a carcinogen than smoking the occasional cigar. 3) It's also fairly harmless on a societal level. I smoked a lot of weed back in the day and while it may have affected a couple of math tests I took, I was able to lead a healthy life, get through college and then quit when I got into the real world. I occasionally partake, but it is rare. I know far more people who have allowed alcohol to negatively affect their life. Most potheads I know still live productive and healthy lives. 4) There are medical benefits. The FDA and many doctors won't own up to it yet, but I'm going to go ahead and believe cancer and AIDs patients who say medical marijuana is the only thing that lets them eat. I have a brother with Crohn's disease and it helps him with minor pain management. It also helps reduce tremors and seizures for anyone who suffers from those.

This also doesn't take into account the tax revenue that can be gained, nor the benefit of reducing the money being spent in the black market--which can be used to finance other, more seedy endeavors.

Despite all of those rational points, we're putting people away for decades because of marijuana related offenses. There are people who have killed, raped, stolen--you name it--who do less time than small-time pot dealers and repeat possession offenders.

Again, you might not want to partake in it, or you might not want anyone you know to partake in it--that's completely fine--but for many people, it's a harmless hobby that could land them in jail.


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## poppajon75

I'm all for an individuals right to choose to partake or, not. As stated earlier in several posts moderation is key in anything you do especially when dealing with what you put into your body. I'd much rather see pot grown locally creating jobs than seeing the pockets of the cartels getting fat from bringing it across our borders. Not to mention the that big pharmaceutical conglomerates are trying to shut it down for a reason. They see the benefits and, view it as a threat to their products. I don't smoke it anymore but, if I had the option between something created in a lab with 100 possible side effects or something that may make me sleepy and want to raid the fridge. ...... I'm getting fat and taking a nap. ... I think there's a lot worse things out there than pot and, this country should be focusing on them. JMHO

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## Cigary

Each generation deals with it's own societal issues and problems and will continue to do so as we evolve. Most of our opinions stem from growing up in our family during periods of our lives that have affected us. Those who grew up in the Depression have been affected by going "without" and thus started to save afterwards just in case things got really bad. They would save everything no matter what it was. Fast forward to the Generation of the 50's and 60's where alcohol was plentiful and people drank like there was no tomorrow and add narcotics to things and you get irresponsible citizens. Everything choice that's made has consequences....intended or unintended and everything boils down to responsibility. Pills, booze, driving with or without seatbelts...the list is endless. I don't have an issue for pot when it comes to medical needs for those who suffer with chronic pain and other illnesses...it's the difference between having a life and not having one because I've seen it first hand. I also believe people should be able to choose what they want to do as long as it doesn't interfere with others lives...like being an alcoholic and driving drunk and they get into a wreck.....that is making a choice where it affects others in a negative way and that's wrong. So many tangents that we could drive ourselves nutts....


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## Navistar

Don't think I have noticed any social problems in Colorado.


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## Navistar

@Tabloid Snapper I have seen you rant on about this multiple times elsewhere. not sure if you have a bad memory or political agenda?


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## Bird-Dog

Navistar said:


> Don't think I have noticed any social problems in Colorado.


If I'm not mistaken, Denver has had quite an increase in the homeless population there; people who flocked there, drawn by the lure of legal pot, but without any plan as to how they were going to address their own basic needs.

In the current atmosphere I'm not sure it's entirely fair to blame it on pot, or on Colorado, so much as on the repressive policies of other states and the country as a whole. And you also have to give a nod to the irresponsibility of some individuals whose actions, or lack thereof, tend to lend ammunition, counter to their own ideology, to those opposed to legalization elsewhere, thus prolonging the resistance to the eventual and inevitable sweep of more relaxed policies toward pot!


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## UBC03

Same thing happened in San Fran in the 60s. Young people tend to think things will work out once they get there. They seldom do.

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## Navistar

Some people will always be a drain on society regardless of the vices they seek. I don't recall ever having an issue finding marijuana in my college days before it was legal so I refuse to direct blame now.


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## Tabloid Snapper

Navistar said:


> @Tabloid Snapper I have seen you rant on about this multiple times elsewhere. not sure if you have a bad memory or political agenda?


Actually I made my comment on something I read in Cigar Aficionado how the Feds are shall we say picking on the Cigar inductry that has always been a legal enterprise.

BTW 60 minutes did a piece impact of how Colorado's legal "pot" inductry is effecting one Colorado twon with shall we say big problems.

The Pot Vote - 60 Minutes Videos - CBS News

I think the 60 Minutes piece shed some light on how Colorado's voter may have been sold a bill of good. IMHO 60 Minutes covered both side of Colorado story.


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## Bird-Dog

UBC03 said:


> Same thing happened in San Fran in the 60s. Young people tend to think things will work out once they get there. They seldom do.


Not just young 'uns, but yep... and every Gold Rush, and the Sooners cum Dust Bowl Oakies' West Coast migration, and flocking from farms to factories, and the Ellis Island immigration boom, and, and, and...


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## Navistar

Tabloid Snapper said:


> Actually I made my comment on some I read in Cigar Aficionado how the Feds are shall we say picking on the Cigar inductry that has always been a legal enterprise.
> 
> BTW 60 minutes did a piece impact of how Colorado legal "pot" inductry is effecting one Colorado twon with shall we say big problems.
> 
> The Pot Vote - 60 Minutes Videos - CBS News


Well if they say it's so, it surely is.


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## Bird-Dog

Navistar said:


> Well if they say it's so, it surely is.


(_smirk_)


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## UBC03

There's two sides to every debate.

It's a lost cause to try to change a made up mind...

This is advice to both sides of the debate. Be content knowing you're right..

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## Tabloid Snapper

People on both side of this subject have strong feeling. This subject will not go away, it will be in the NEWS, and both side of people supporting, and not supporting have strong feelings.

I think everone should read the editorial in Cigar Aficionado (Ray Lewis was on Cover)

Then watch the 60 Minutes piece about Colorado from last Sunday.

Maybe some people will have a new understand of the subject.

Have a Smokey Day. Cigar Smoke that is.


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## Joe Sticks

Personally, I believe in individual Liberty. People have the right to live as they wish, as long as they allow others to do the same and cause no harm to others. I believe in voluntary exchange and voluntary association. 

Others do not own my life, and I do not own theirs.

The politicians & bureaucrats should stop sticking their noses into pot, tobacco, and numerous other areas where they have no business.

If anyone thinks the grifters in D.C. are benevolent types who 'know better' as to how to live your life - - - IMO that's a very naive outlook.

There is a deeper rabbit hole to explore. That probably makes many people extremely uncomfortable. Just websearch "CIA involvement in drug trade". This whole regulation thing is a farce by hypocrites.


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## UBC03

Joe Sticks said:


> Personally, I believe in individual Liberty. People have the right to live as they wish, as long as they allow others to do the same and cause no harm to others. I believe in voluntary exchange and voluntary association.
> 
> Others do not own my life, and I do not own theirs.
> 
> The politicians & bureaucrats should stop sticking their noses into pot, tobacco, and numerous other areas where they have no business.
> 
> If anyone thinks the grifters in D.C. are benevolent types who 'know better' as to how to live your life - - - IMO that's a very naive outlook.
> 
> There is a deeper rabbit hole to explore. That probably makes many people extremely uncomfortable. Just websearch "CIA involvement in drug trade". This whole regulation thing is a farce by hypocrites.


If it wasn't for their meddling and warnings I'm sure I would of tipped over a vending machine on myself or closed a few babies in their stroller. God knows without them I would of thought plastic bags were a great toy for small children.

I'd like to thank them from saving me from me. 

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## SeanTheEvans

Watching this 60 minutes piece, I see

Pros - Bigger economy
Jobs in the area
Investment in the community
$141 million in taxes
Less possession arrests

Cons - One Dr's anecdotal evidence about increase in babies with THC - something not yet proven to be negative
More ER patients have pot in their system (obvious, since it's now legal) - even though it doesn't say that's the reason they went to the ER
Criminals have come to the area to take advantage of the situation.
Driving? It might be a problem?

It makes me wonder what the problem really is here. Sounds mostly like opinions being stated as if they were facts.


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## UBC03

SeanTheEvans said:


> Watching this 60 minutes piece, I see
> 
> Pros - Bigger economy
> Jobs in the area
> Investment in the community
> $141 million in taxes
> Less possession arrests
> 
> Cons - One Dr's anecdotal evidence about increase in babies with THC - something not yet proven to be negative
> More ER patients have pot in their system (obvious, since it's now legal) - even though it doesn't say that's the reason they went to the ER
> Criminals have come to the area to take advantage of the situation.
> Driving? It might be a problem?
> 
> It makes me wonder what the problem really is here. Sounds mostly like opinions being stated as if they were facts.


As I said before people can look at the same "evidence" and see 2 totally different scenarios playing out.

It's the same with guns, politics, religion, liberals and conservatives.

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## poppajon75

UBC03 said:


> As I said before people can look at the same "evidence" and see 2 totally different scenarios playing out.
> 
> It's the same with guns, politics, religion, liberals and conservatives.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G925V using Tapatalk


Unless I'm mistaken I read a thread here on this forum about cigar lounge ettiquite that suggested those topics for the most part be left at the door when indulging in said businesses.


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## UBC03

poppajon75 said:


> Unless I'm mistaken I read a thread here on this forum about cigar lounge ettiquite that suggested those topics for the most part be left at the door when indulging in said businesses.


That was kinda my point.. This thread is one of those for or against kind of topics. There's very little middle ground.

It's been discussed in a mature civil manner. But has the potential to get ugly if someone decided to take it there. I hope we wouldn't do that.

Thanks to the contributors for keeping this a discussion not an argument.

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## Regiampiero

UBC03 said:


> That was kinda my point.. This thread is one of those for or against kind of topics. There's very little middle ground.
> 
> It's been discussed in a mature civil manner. But has the potential to get ugly if someone decided to take it there. I hope we wouldn't do that.
> 
> Thanks to the contributors for keeping this a discussion not an argument.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G925V using Tapatalk


I disagree lol, as I'm perfectly in the middle not giving two hoots about pot lagality.

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## Cigary

I agree with UBC as to how this thread has stayed on track because it's often that subject matter like this can often take a dirt road. My "love affair" with history and why things happen is not a mystery as many think it is in terms of why civilization(s) rise and fall. The Fall of Rome is a classic version of this as to how a civilization,,,, which for many centuries was the envy of the world and became as we all know the decaying and immoral civilization it turned into. Several reasons were that Romes overexpansion and military overspending gobbled up most of their resources ( sound familiar?) secondly was Government corruption and political instability.....again...( sound familiar?) the political fallout and downright corruption of their Leadership added to the rot of the common man who would then turn to things that corrupted themselves...As the situation worsened, civic pride waned and many Roman citizens lost trust in their leadership. That lent to more instability of the population to find something to engage in for what they called self determination...much like the last hundred years of our country where alcohol and drugs became plentiful and escapism was the real goal. 

Booze and drugs aren't the root cause of decline but rather it's the culmination of the variables as to how we race to the bottom of life. Traditional Values was the anchor of the growth of successful nations and too often as history records is the vast migration of outside civilizations that came in and destroyed the host nation because of their differing POV as to their own beliefs and thus the deterioration of the hosting civilization. If you want to destroy a country ...introduce an opposing value that doesn't agree with the country that they migrate to. Again...sound familiar? The moral of this quick observation is that each civilization will deal with changing attitudes of values that can either make it stronger or make it weaker and we dive into the rabbit hole of "subtext" that pushes us into useless dialogue as to what is right and what is wrong...or what is expedient. When a civilization concerns itself with bettering their neighbors instead of themselves you'll have a successful nation and the opposite according to Newtons 3rd Law... For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction....regardless of this being about gravitation it is certainly applicable to society as well.

The more a civilization tends to rot the more they look for a quick fix to heal their mental and physical suffering and that can be almost anything from drugs, booze, immoral living...any stimulus that will take their minds off of their maladies...and those that follow this path wonder why their lives are such a mess and the only thing they have to share in life is about their misery.....ever witness this and their ability to offer up something of value is pretty pretty non existent. While the debate about Pot/Booze/etc. will always be with us it begs for the logical answer as to why we think we have to have it? Recreational use is a symptom of a greater problem....medicinally it is a tool that has proven itself but requires a logic of use that escapes most of us. Just some thoughts here as I tend to think outside the box more than I probably need to.


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## TonyBrooklyn

Tabloid Snapper said:


> I seldom make comments on editorial or letter to the editors. But this one struck home what the FDA is slamming legal cigar maker with rules, that will cost them, and the consume pay more for what was once a legal comity with few regulations. CIGARS.
> 
> Yet Medical Pot or Recreational Pot will be on the next Tuesday ballots in many states. Some states already have medical pot, and recreational pot. My state will vote next Tuesday for full recreational pot, and I hope it goes down in flames.
> 
> Give me a break FDA leave the cigar industry alone. Cigars don't cause the social problems POT is causing in Washington State & Colorado. Just two recent examples of stupid voter being fool by the Medical / Recreational Pot lobby.
> 
> I honestly in my lifetime never ever thought I would see the day when State legalized recreational pot.
> 
> The FDA need to leave the Cigar inductry alone, and the Justice Dept & DEA need to go full blast on the War on Drug including enforcing FEDERAL POT LAWS. JMHO


Its an interesting debate for sure. I gotta say of all the things to do to get a buzz. Pot is most definitely the safest, it may have health benefits for some as well. That being said i can't imagine what a society full of pot heads. Driving around going to work operating handguns etc. Would be like, but then again if people used it responsibly. Like many do with alcohol i see no harm in it whats so ever.:vs_cool:


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## TonyBrooklyn

Tabloid Snapper said:


> People on both side of this subject have strong feeling. This subject will not go away, it will be in the NEWS, and both side of people supporting, and not supporting have strong feelings.
> 
> I think everone should read the editorial in Cigar Aficionado (Ray Lewis was on Cover)
> 
> Then watch the 60 Minutes piece about Colorado from last Sunday.
> 
> Maybe some people will have a new understand of the subject.
> 
> Have a Smokey Day. Cigar Smoke that is.


No doubt it is a money maker. It took Colorado out of the red and put it in the black. :vs_cool:


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## Tabloid Snapper

Joe Sticks said:


> Personally, I believe in individual Liberty. People have the right to live as they wish, as long as they allow others to do the same and cause no harm to others. I believe in voluntary exchange and voluntary association.
> 
> Others do not own my life, and I do not own theirs.
> 
> The politicians & bureaucrats should stop sticking their noses into pot, tobacco, and numerous other areas where they have no business.
> 
> If anyone thinks the grifters in D.C. are benevolent types who 'know better' as to how to live your life - - - IMO that's a very naive outlook.
> 
> There is a deeper rabbit hole to explore. That probably makes many people extremely uncomfortable. Just websearch "CIA involvement in drug trade". This whole regulation thing is a farce by hypocrites.


The FDA also needed to stay out of regulating Cigars, but like ever little agency in the Govenment they need a way to flex their power.

Sadly our lives are ruled by many agencies at federal, city, county & state level. Funny thing is in 1776 America seemed to do well with out all their agencies & department running our lives.

A wise man one said that if people followed & obeyed the 10 rules Moses brought down from the mountain on stone tables. The world might be a better place to live in.


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## Navistar

Tabloid Snapper said:


> The FDA also needed to stay out of regulating Cigars, but like ever little agency in the Govenment they need a way to flex their power.
> 
> Sadly our lives are ruled by many agencies at federal, city, county & state level. Funny thing is in 1776 America seemed to do well with out all their agencies & department running our lives.
> 
> A wise man one said that if people followed & obeyed the 10 rules Moses brought down from the mountain on stone tables. The world might be a better place to live in.


That I can agree with


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## UBC03

Tabloid Snapper said:


> Sadly our lives are ruled by many agencies at federal, city, county & state level. Funny thing is in 1776 America seemed to do well with out all their agencies & department running our lives.


Agreed , it sucks cigars and pipe tobacco got wrapped up in this whole vaping crack down..

As for life in 1776 .. The life expectancy was 36..I'll take a little government overreach against being dead 7 years ago ...

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## csk415

*Cigar Aficionado Editorial about "POT"*

Legalize it. As a former Leo I hated dealing with drunks. Nothing worse than a 4'10 whiskey/tequila drunk tard wanting to fight. I'll take the baked chill guy all day long. In Texas the laws have been relaxed. Not worth the time to write em up.

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