# Embargo. Is there anything we can do?



## Regiampiero (Jan 18, 2013)

The title is pretty straight forward. I was just wondering in a time where our number one importer is the largest communist country with shady and controversial laws (China), why do we still have an embargo with a small country like Cuba that poses no threat to our country? Is there some sort of petition or motion to contact our representative as a group to get this outdated legislation abolished? We're doing it for the new up-coming tobacco laws, but why not the embargo?

Just throwing it out there. I for once am going to contact my representatives and ask them to take a look at this (for a lack of a better word) stupid law, but if I'm alone what are the chances they're even going to read it?


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## Scott W. (Jul 10, 2008)

I just try to ignore it:smoke:


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## Bruck (Jan 8, 2013)

Well, I know this doesn't make sense per se, but I'm pretty sure nothing along these lines will happen until Fidel Castro kicks the bucket. After that, I think the movement to get the gov't to lift the embargo will get some legs.


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## Perfecto Dave (Nov 24, 2009)

What embargo? Honestly, for selfish reasons, I like things just the way they are. No embargo, no cigars. Not in the way we know it now....much worse I'm afraid.


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## Tobias Lutz (Feb 18, 2013)

I would love Habanos being more readily accessible and in turn, possibly less expensive, but at the end of the day this isn't a bone I'm interested in picking. From an objective point of view, there are 101 things I wish my elected officials would work to sort out before trying to end the embargo on Cuba. Just my take on it.


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## commonsenseman (Apr 18, 2008)

Tobias Lutz said:


> I would love Habanos being more readily accessible and in turn, possibly less expensive, but at the end of the day this isn't a bone I'm interested in picking. From an objective point of view, there are 101 things I wish my elected officials would work to sort out before trying to end the embargo on Cuba. Just my take on it.


While it does seem like a silly embargo, especially when you compare them to other countries that we willingly trade with; I agree with you Tobias, there are so many other things that are much more important.


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## john_007 (Nov 4, 2011)

The quality of cigars that will be produced if the embargo was lifted would be horrible. Imagine the demand for cuban cigars at that point, CC would not even resemble what we smoke now. OBviously there are other things far more important than cigars but that is not really a discussion for this setting. Have a great day all.


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## teedles915 (Jun 18, 2009)

And remember if those cigars are legal they are taxed. Talk about a price increase.


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## protekk (Oct 18, 2010)

john_007 said:


> The quality of cigars that will be produced if the embargo was lifted would be horrible. Imagine the demand for cuban cigars at that point, CC would not even resemble what we smoke now. OBviously there are other things far more important than cigars but that is not really a discussion for this setting. Have a great day all.





teedles915 said:


> And remember if those cigars are legal they are taxed. Talk about a price increase.


Agree 100%


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## Mante (Dec 25, 2009)

There is an embargo? :madgrin:


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## asmartbull (Aug 16, 2009)

1. These cigars would be cost prohibitive due to taxes and quality control would go down the hopper, so lets leave this along.

On a serious note this actually has more to do with trade agreements with other countries......tons of agricultural issues here...at least what I am told from my friend at the State Dept.
It is also hard to ignore that many in FL is against such a move and we all know that FL can change elections...


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## szyzk (Nov 27, 2010)

I'll echo what's above... Leave it alone! The prices are good, the quality of tobacco coming from the country is REALLY good right now, and I'm fine waiting five days to two weeks for purchases to arrive via airmail as opposed to buying in person.


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## Herf N Turf (Dec 31, 2008)

"Dear Honorable Representitive,

Please do all in your power to ensure that I am forced to pay double what I do now for Cuban cigars and that they become so over-produced the fields become depleted of all nutrients and desertified.

A Voter"

Seriously, I've been torn over this for a long time. Yes, it bothers me that the Cuban people are basically living a subsistence existence on a land-locked prison. Human rights violations abound and poverty is the order of the day. Then again, it's the system they chose, in the most absolute and violent manner at their disposal. Most of the dissidents left and took up residence in south Florida and central America. Honestly, from a selfish standpoint, I say leave it alone. From humanistic standpoint, I say give it back to the mob and bring back the casinos.


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## CeeGar (Feb 19, 2007)

Herf N Turf said:


> "Dear Honorable Representitive,
> 
> Please do all in your power to ensure that I am forced to pay double what I do now for Cuban cigars and that they become so over-produced the fields become depleted of all nutrients and desertified.
> 
> ...


This sums up my thoughts, as well. I hate that the people of Cuba are enduring such conditions. There are still refugees on makeshift rafts in the ocean daily! I would be interested to know how the younger generation in Cuba view their situation.


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## commonsenseman (Apr 18, 2008)

You know what's funny? I forgot about them being taxed if legalized........

For selfish reasons, I agree that it would ruin Cubans for those of us that enjoy them.

As for the Cuban people, I just don't know. Part of me thinks we should lift the embargo to "help" them, and part of me thinks we should just leave them alone.


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## brimy623 (May 25, 2013)

Herf N Turf said:


> "Dear Honorable Representitive,
> 
> Please do all in your power to ensure that I am forced to pay double what I do now for Cuban cigars and that they become so over-produced the fields become depleted of all nutrients and desertified.
> 
> ...





asmartbull said:


> 1. These cigars would be cost prohibitive due to taxes and quality control would go down the hopper, so lets leave this along.
> 
> On a serious note this actually has more to do with trade agreements with other countries......tons of agricultural issues here...at least what I am told from my friend at the State Dept.
> It is also hard to ignore that many in FL is against such a move and we all know that FL can change elections...


Ahhhhhh!!
As I'm sure most know, if you think our hobby has a "slippery slope", try playing politics!!!
Aside from the forbidden fruit that some are able to enjoy, what can the ISOM offer "US" besides said fruits?!
China produces so much of the technology that we use, I see *NO* conceivable way that our government imposes any kind of embargo on them, despite any atrocities they may commit. It doesn't hurt (China) that they own about 50% of one of the US's economic capitals (NYC)!


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## Tritones (Jun 23, 2010)

The embargo gives me the opportunity to disobey an unjust law, thus affording me the moral high ground necessary to sustain my carefully-maintained self-delusion that I am making a difference in the world. If the embargo falls, I will be faced with the daunting task of identifying another unjust law in whose disobedience I could find not only self-righteous satisfaction, but also enjoyment of the material products of such disobedience. That's just too much effort; I'd rather relax and smoke a cigar.

Disclaimer - any Cuban cigars mentioned or alluded to in this post are works of fiction. Any resemblance to actual Cuban cigars, whether in transit, in storage, or up in smoke, is purely coincidental.


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## commonsenseman (Apr 18, 2008)

I just had another thought. If the embargo were lifted & other countries had access to Cuba's tobacco, I wonder what that would do to the cigar industry as a whole? Would we see Cuban/other tobacco blends? Would Cuba be able to grow enough tobacco to satisfy demand?

Food for thought.

@Tritones I think that's just part of the fun for all of us!


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## CeeGar (Feb 19, 2007)

commonsenseman said:


> I just had another thought. *If the embargo were lifted & other countries had access to Cuba's tobacco*, I wonder what that would do to the cigar industry as a whole? Would we see Cuban/other tobacco blends? Would Cuba be able to grow enough tobacco to satisfy demand?
> 
> Food for thought.
> 
> @Tritones I think that's just part of the fun for all of us!


If it's me, highest bidder wins. Higher prices paid for the raw product, taxes out the wazoo, insufficient supply, lax QC....no thank you. Not to mention that you have companies suing each other over brand names. Guess where the cost of all the legal battles fall?


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## avitti (Jun 4, 2011)

If Cuba wanted to it could export its tobacco right now -just not to the USA. There was a time it exported a minimal amount to Spain not sure if this still occurs..The USA does currently trade some agricultural products with Cuba -i believe one of them is wood..all this trading is supposed to be cash only deals---but wouldn't it be ironic if some of the wood was used in the making of cigar boxes


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## Herf N Turf (Dec 31, 2008)

Tritones said:


> The embargo gives me the opportunity to disobey an unjust law, thus affording me the moral high ground necessary to sustain my carefully-maintained self-delusion that I am making a difference in the world. If the embargo falls, I will be faced with the daunting task of identifying another unjust law in whose disobedience I could find not only self-righteous satisfaction, but also enjoyment of the material products of such disobedience. That's just too much effort; I'd rather relax and smoke a cigar.
> 
> Disclaimer - any Cuban cigars mentioned or alluded to in this post are works of fiction. Any resemblance to actual Cuban cigars, whether in transit, in storage, or up in smoke, is purely coincidental.


The BIG question is, were any cigars harmed in the production of this post? 



avitti said:


> If Cuba wanted to it could export its tobacco right now -just not to the USA. There was a time it exported a minimal amount to Spain not sure if this still occurs..The USA does currently trade some agricultural products with Cuba -i believe one of them is wood..all this trading is supposed to be cash only deals---but wouldn't it be ironic if some of the wood was used in the making of cigar boxes


I believe this relationship still continues, Vit'. Spain's had an incestuous relationship with Cuba and it's baccy for half a millennium. As we know, Altadis own half of HSA and last I heard were still brokering baccy in the EU market.


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## Lrbergin (Jun 14, 2012)

In my selfish views, I don't see how it could be much better than it currently is. Cuban cigars are a few clicks of the mouse and weeks worth of shipping away. They are also reasonably priced and tax free.


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## Perfecto Dave (Nov 24, 2009)

All in favor of lifting the embargo raise your right hand.......that's what I thought...I don't see many hands in the air either.


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## szyzk (Nov 27, 2010)

commonsenseman said:


> I just had another thought. If the embargo were lifted & other countries had access to Cuba's tobacco, I wonder what that would do to the cigar industry as a whole? Would we see Cuban/other tobacco blends? Would Cuba be able to grow enough tobacco to satisfy demand?


#1 There are going to be more lawsuits than you can shake a stick at due to naming rights. That's going to muck up the process from day one.
#2 The price of tobacco would skyrocket. They can barely keep up with the demand in the US as it is, and that's with most people thinking it's impossible to buy Cubans. If we had a reasonable amount of LCDHs in the US and they mailordered, Cuba wouldn't be able to keep up with demand. Every yokel would be waiting in line to try one of these cigars.
#3 Regardless, you think the Fuentes or Pepin wouldn't be bidding on lots of tobacco for the chance to blend a hybrid cigar? There would definitely be some manufacturers jumping on this.
#4 Quality would drop. It would take years of money flowing into Cuba for the infrastructure to be upgraded to meet demand; in the meantime, there would be a noticeable and unavoidable drop in quality.
#5 Nobody really mentions this, but there would be less cigars going to the Asian, UK, Canadian, etc. distributors. That would raise prices, too.

I guess my point is that we'd all be back smoking NCs - or in the poorhouse. But I would love to smoke a Fuente-made cigar using both Dominican and Cuban tobacco... In fact, I dream about the day I could try something like that!


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## dgold21 (Jul 7, 2007)

Perfecto Dave said:


> All in favor of lifting the embargo raise your right hand


*sitting on hands looking around while whistling*


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## TonyBrooklyn (Jan 28, 2010)

Tashaz said:


> There is an embargo? :madgrin:


:noidea::noidea::noidea::noidea::noidea::wink::yo:


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## bpegler (Mar 30, 2006)

I find myself in the company of scofflaws...

Clearly within my comfort zone.


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## Scott W. (Jul 10, 2008)

szyzk said:


> #1 There are going to be more lawsuits than you can shake a stick at due to naming rights. That's going to muck up the process from day one.
> #2 The price of tobacco would skyrocket. They can barely keep up with the demand in the US as it is, and that's with most people thinking it's impossible to buy Cubans. If we had a reasonable amount of LCDHs in the US and they mailordered, Cuba wouldn't be able to keep up with demand. Every yokel would be waiting in line to try one of these cigars.
> #3 Regardless, you think the Fuentes or Pepin wouldn't be bidding on lots of tobacco for the chance to blend a hybrid cigar? There would definitely be some manufacturers jumping on this.
> #4 Quality would drop. It would take years of money flowing into Cuba for the infrastructure to be upgraded to meet demand; in the meantime, there would be a noticeable and unavoidable drop in quality.
> ...


Um, I think a wrapper switching experiment with an Opus and a Bolivar Belicoso Fino might be in the near future.


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## szyzk (Nov 27, 2010)

Scott W. said:


> Um, I think a wrapper switching experiment with an Opus and a Bolivar Belicoso Fino might be in the near future.


I would love it. I'd be more interested in the Opus wrapper on the bunched BBF as that should maximize the flavor; using a Cuban wrapper on Dominican filler would probably result in something less tasty.


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## Scott W. (Jul 10, 2008)

Agreed, now I need to practice switching wrappers!


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## szyzk (Nov 27, 2010)

Scott W. said:


> Agreed, now I need to practice switching wrappers!


I'm pretty good at rolling wrapper tobacco. Can do a very nice triple cap or a respectable pigtail (and I'm getting better at making it fan out - fancy!) at the end of a nice, tight, three twist spiral. But taking them off... I'll leave that to the professionals.


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## TonyBrooklyn (Jan 28, 2010)

szyzk said:


> I'm pretty good at rolling wrapper tobacco. Can do a very nice triple cap or a respectable pigtail (and I'm getting better at making it fan out - fancy!) at the end of a nice, tight, three twist spiral. But taking them off... I'll leave that to the professionals.


I have seen people do it by first soaking the cigar in water or spray misting the cigar over a period of time. Wrapper comes right off, can't help but think its gotta take some flavor away.


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## Tritones (Jun 23, 2010)

Herf N Turf said:


> The BIG question is, were any cigars harmed in the production of this post?


Definitely not. A few, if such cigars actually existed, which of course they do not, may have been ignited and burned to the last lip-scorching nub. However, I have never interviewed a single cigar who objected to that fate. In fact, they all seem to look forward to it.

Except for the occasional lunkhead that won't stay lit ...


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## Regiampiero (Jan 18, 2013)

There's been a lot of valid points, some that I have thought of before and some that I heard for the first time. Here is what I think about them:

Prices/Taxes - Prices of Cuban cigars skyrocket after the embargo was put into place because many fields that were dedicated to tobacco growth had to be switch to vegetables and even fruit growth in order to sustain the population. If the embargo was lifted, Cuba would be free to import a good portion of their food from the US decreasing the number of farming subsides our government gives out and hollowing Cubans to concentrate more on cigars as they used to. To me that's killing too birds with one stone. 
As far as taxes. I buy from Canada so I'm paying my fair share of taxes, if anything I would be getting a tax brake if they would directly import to the US. Not to mention that many cigars manufacturers have adjusted their manufacturing process to decrease the cost to produce cigars while at the same time keeping the quality they are known for, and Perdomo is a prime example. 

Law Suits - I know that Cubatabaco has a beef with cigars with the same name not being sold by Cuba, but they already lost the lawsuits in the international court when it comes to Cohiba and a few other brands. I’m sure that won’t even be blimp on the radar as far as the embargo is concerned.

Cigar quality would decrease – I think the opposite is true. For starters, just because the demand in Cuban tobacco will increase, it doesn’t mean that the current tobacco companies are going to be souly responsible to fill that gap. Miami cigars and other companies can easily buy Cuban tobacco and make Cuban cigars outside Cuba. 
Secondly, Introducing Cuban tobacco to the NC market and creating a whole new variety of mixed blends can only improve the industry. Some of you have already mentioned what type of blends you would like to see and I was there with you on the mouth watering. 

All in all remember that the market will always adjust to what the consumer wants, and I don’t think this will be any different.


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## john_007 (Nov 4, 2011)

While I understand where your conning from what history has shown us is Cuba has a really hard time with consistency when demand is very high.

During the boom the cigars conning out of Cuba were inconsistent, and quality control was at an all time low. In order to manufacture that many cigars the process to cure and age the tobacco was compromised. If the embargo were lifted the demand for the cigars would be so high the would either have to compromise quality or keep selling roughly what they do now and price would be astronomical due to the demand. Also while land may be available for tobacco it take time for it to be ready to produce good tobacco, minerals and nutrients. The intire infrastructure would have to change, barns built, factory expansion, all of this would take years and in that time cigars and smokers would suffer. Anyway just my 0.02 . Have a good day everyone.


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## john_007 (Nov 4, 2011)

I wrote that on my phone, sorry for lack of punctuation. :laugh:


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## Regiampiero (Jan 18, 2013)

john_007 said:


> While I understand where your conning from what history has shown us is Cuba has a really hard time with consistency when demand is very high.
> 
> During the boom the cigars conning out of Cuba were inconsistent, and quality control was at an all time low. In order to manufacture that many cigars the process to cure and age the tobacco was compromised. If the embargo were lifted the demand for the cigars would be so high the would either have to compromise quality or keep selling roughly what they do now and price would be astronomical due to the demand. Also while land may be available for tobacco it take time for it to be ready to produce good tobacco, minerals and nutrients. The intire infrastructure would have to change, barns built, factory expansion, all of this would take years and in that time cigars and smokers would suffer. Anyway just my 0.02 . Have a good day everyone.


I understand your point, but I don't think the change is going to be as drastic as everyone thinks. The same amount of factories and the same amount of land used to be enough to provide god cigars to the entire world (including the US) before the embargo, so why should it be any different if the embargo would e lifted? If nothing else the demand is going to be lower in the long run given that the cigar industry as since expanded and now good quality cigars also come rom the Dominican Republic, Nicaragua and Honduras. 
Also lets not forget that even if the embargo is lifted that doesn't mean there's going to be a change of government. In a communist regime, if they get a demand increase of 100% they're going to convert those fields back to tobacco growing in a mater of 2 to 3 years regardless of you loses out of the deal.

Also I found an interesting case study that argues that the embargo did the exact opposite of throwing out the Fidel Castro regime by making every other nations more sympathetic toward the Cuban people, and by giving Fidel a scape goat every time is idea failed. 
http://www1.american.edu/ted/cigar-trade.htm


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## Tritones (Jun 23, 2010)

Regiampiero said:


> Also I found an interesting case study that argues that the embargo did the exact opposite of throwing out the Fidel Castro regime by making every other nations more sympathetic toward the Cuban people, and by giving Fidel a scape goat every time is idea failed.
> TED Case Study:Cigar Trade


This is a pretty widespread argument ("argument" in the sense of putting forth an ordered opinion). However, whether or not the embargo has had any effect on Castro's regime (as opposed to his cigars) is a political discussion, which invariably turns into an argument of another kind. That's why we don't discuss politics on Puff. :tape: :thumb:


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## Regiampiero (Jan 18, 2013)

Tritones said:


> This is a pretty widespread argument ("argument" in the sense of putting forth an ordered opinion). However, whether or not the embargo has had any effect on Castro's regime (as opposed to his cigars) is a political discussion, which invariably turns into an argument of another kind. That's why we don't discuss politics on Puff. :tape: :thumb:


Yea...I guess you're right. I just thought it was a pretty interesting point of view and one I've never considered.


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## jabuan (Jan 20, 2013)

Tritones said:


> The embargo gives me the opportunity to disobey an unjust law, thus affording me the moral high ground necessary to sustain my carefully-maintained self-delusion that I am making a difference in the world. If the embargo falls, I will be faced with the daunting task of identifying another unjust law in whose disobedience I could find not only self-righteous satisfaction, but also enjoyment of the material products of such disobedience. That's just too much effort; I'd rather relax and smoke a cigar.
> 
> Disclaimer - any Cuban cigars mentioned or alluded to in this post are works of fiction. Any resemblance to actual Cuban cigars, whether in transit, in storage, or up in smoke, is purely coincidental.


:amen:
I love it!


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## TonyBrooklyn (Jan 28, 2010)

john_007 said:


> While I understand where your conning from what history has shown us is Cuba has a really hard time with consistency when demand is very high.
> 
> During the boom the cigars conning out of Cuba were inconsistent, and quality control was at an all time low. In order to manufacture that many cigars the process to cure and age the tobacco was compromised. If the embargo were lifted the demand for the cigars would be so high the would either have to compromise quality or keep selling roughly what they do now and price would be astronomical due to the demand. Also while land may be available for tobacco it take time for it to be ready to produce good tobacco, minerals and nutrients. The intire infrastructure would have to change, barns built, factory expansion, all of this would take years and in that time cigars and smokers would suffer. Anyway just my 0.02 . Have a good day everyone.


To be honest there where no good cigars during the boom coming from anywhere. There were so many dog rockets that came out of any country that could grow tobacco. To be honest IMHO the Cubans where the best. Construction issues yes but the raw product the tobacco was very good. Unlike the fly by night brands that would pop up all over the place.


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## Mante (Dec 25, 2009)

TonyBrooklyn said:


> To be honest there where no good cigars during the boom coming from anywhere. There were so many dog rockets that came out of any country that could grow tobacco. To be honest IMHO the Cubans where the best. Construction issues yes but the raw product the tobacco was very good. Unlike the fly by night brands that would pop up all over the place.


To an extent I think the same can be said today though to a lesser extent. :thumb:


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## TonyBrooklyn (Jan 28, 2010)

Tashaz said:


> To an extent I think the same can be said today though to a lesser extent. :thumb:


Yes Warren you make a very good point. Outside the Cuban market brands are always popping up. The Cubans are doing the opposite eliminating Marcas and Vitolas at will.
Sure wish it was the other way around:hmm:


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## szyzk (Nov 27, 2010)

Regiampiero said:


> I understand your point, but I don't think the change is going to be as drastic as everyone thinks. The same amount of factories and the same amount of land used to be enough to provide god cigars to the entire world (including the US) before the embargo, so why should it be any different if the embargo would e lifted? If nothing else the demand is going to be lower in the long run given that the cigar industry as since expanded and now good quality cigars also come rom the Dominican Republic, Nicaragua and Honduras.
> Also lets not forget that even if the embargo is lifted that doesn't mean there's going to be a change of government. In a communist regime, if they get a demand increase of 100% they're going to convert those fields back to tobacco growing in a mater of 2 to 3 years regardless of you loses out of the deal.
> 
> Also I found an interesting case study that argues that the embargo did the exact opposite of throwing out the Fidel Castro regime by making every other nations more sympathetic toward the Cuban people, and by giving Fidel a scape goat every time is idea failed.
> TED Case Study:Cigar Trade


A few things to remember though...

1. The demand would be greater than ever. Greater than it is now. People who don't smoke would be clamoring for Cuban cigars because they have been built up as THE forbidden fruit. Obviously the demand would eventually wane but not immediately.

2. Supply wouldn't meet demand immediately because the raw product wouldn't be ready. You can't just pull up beds of lettuce or grain or whatever and successfully plant tobacco. Soil studies and enrichment cycles would be needed to prep the land, growing, fermentation and aging cycles would need completed, etc. That takes time and money. Additionally, many warehouses in Cuba have been shut down. Yes, in the process some have expanded but not in as great a number. They would need an influx of cash - and time - to prepare and grow the infastructure.

3. Distribution to consumers would still be through LCDHs. The pricepoint would still be controlled by Habanos SA. Furthermore, do you think our lawmakers wouldn't see these potential sales as a reason to push (again) for higher taxes?

Obviously over time things would stabilize, but I'm convinced that it would be years before normal guys like us could enjoy quality Cuban cigars on a daily basis... Which leads me right back to: I like things just the way they are.


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## Regiampiero (Jan 18, 2013)

Tashaz said:


> To an extent I think the same can be said today though to a lesser extent. :thumb:


That's funny...I was thinking the same thing last night while I was browsing some of the new cigars that came out of IPCPR and I was wondering if we are in the midst of a boom right now.


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## Regiampiero (Jan 18, 2013)

szyzk said:


> A few things to remember though...
> 
> 1. The demand would be greater than ever. Greater than it is now. People who don't smoke would be clamoring for Cuban cigars because they have been built up as THE forbidden fruit. Obviously the demand would eventually wane but not immediately.
> 
> ...


I guess in my head the time line would be between 2 to 3 years, and I would be fine with that. Obviously if it went any further in the order of decades its a different story, but I doubt that. Fields can be reconstituted in about 2 years and the manufacturing process can be revamped at the same time.

But seriously, the construction quality issue is mute IMHO. What makes a CC is the tobacco, so what would prevent Don Pepin from making a true Cuban Classic in Miami in stead of Havana or Pinar Del Rio? True the tobacco is still going to be limited (for that 3 year period I mentioned previously), but I believe quality could only go up if you take the construction outside of Cuba. This also fixes the distribution issue because if Miami Cigar is the manufacturer, than Habanos would have no say on the price point.


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## john_007 (Nov 4, 2011)

TonyBrooklyn said:


> To be honest there where no good cigars during the boom coming from anywhere. There were so many dog rockets that came out of any country that could grow tobacco. To be honest IMHO the Cubans where the best. Construction issues yes but the raw product the tobacco was very good. Unlike the fly by night brands that would pop up all over the place.


I think part of that has to do with the demographic in which you are marketing to. In my opinion US customers like to jump on the next best thing, or the coolest band, and if its HTF even better, and thats why you see these brands pop up all the time. In reality all this did was push me away, i actually Like that HSA controls all of the cigar making in cuba in my opinion this leads to a better product.


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## szyzk (Nov 27, 2010)

Regiampiero said:


> I guess in my head the time line would be between 2 to 3 years, and I would be fine with that. Obviously if it went any further in the order of decades its a different story, but I doubt that. Fields can be reconstituted in about 2 years and the manufacturing process can be revamped at the same time.
> 
> But seriously, the construction quality issue is mute IMHO. What makes a CC is the tobacco, so what would prevent Don Pepin from making a true Cuban Classic in Miami in stead of Havana or Pinar Del Rio? True the tobacco is still going to be limited (for that 3 year period I mentioned previously), but I believe quality could only go up if you take the construction outside of Cuba. This also fixes the distribution issue because if Miami Cigar is the manufacturer, than Habanos would have no say on the price point.


Don Pepin or Miami Cigar or whomever would be buying tobacco from HSA - prices would be high, which would push a higher price onto the consumer. Everything would still be controlled by Cuba.

Honestly, I think outsiders using Cuban tobacco would be a novelty anyway. I greatly prefer Puros, be it Dominican, Nicaraguan, Honduran or Cuban, just like I greatly prefer single-origin coffee, tea and chocolate. It would be fun to see what different blenders could do with Cuban tobacco but at the end of the day I'd rather have a Bolivar, Upmann, Qd'O or Partagas, and I think Cuban Puros would dominate the market.


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## Regiampiero (Jan 18, 2013)

szyzk said:


> Don Pepin or Miami Cigar or whomever would be buying tobacco from HSA - prices would be high, which would push a higher price onto the consumer. Everything would still be controlled by Cuba.
> 
> Honestly, I think outsiders using Cuban tobacco would be a novelty anyway. I greatly prefer Puros, be it Dominican, Nicaraguan, Honduran or Cuban, just like I greatly prefer single-origin coffee, tea and chocolate. It would be fun to see what different blenders could do with Cuban tobacco but at the end of the day I'd rather have a Bolivar, Upmann, Qd'O or Partagas, and I think Cuban Puros would dominate the market.


Wouldn't a cigar made with all Cuban tobacco and by Cuban people still be considered a puro even if it was rolled in the US, Nicaragua or elsewhere? I get the traditionalist would see an issue in that, but if you think about it they would be even more original/puro since the people who created the blends would then have a chance to roll the cigars they or their ancestors created. Is there even a family left in Cuba that created one of the big names and still makes cigars there?

As far as pricing its obvious we're not going to agree, I just don't think the prices would go up very drastically for any significant period of time. As many here pointed out the demand would go up because of the whole forbidden fruit thing, but as we all know all trends come to a end...And thank God too, if they didn't we would still be seeing more grown men in jorts!


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## szyzk (Nov 27, 2010)

Regiampiero said:


> Wouldn't a cigar made with all Cuban tobacco and by Cuban people still be considered a puro even if it was rolled in the US, Nicaragua or elsewhere? I get the traditionalist would see an issue in that, but if you think about it they would be even more original/puro since the people who created the blends would then have a chance to roll the cigars they or their ancestors created. Is there even a family left in Cuba that created one of the big names and still makes cigars there?
> 
> As far as pricing its obvious we're not going to agree, I just don't think the prices would go up very drastically for any significant period of time. As many here pointed out the demand would go up because of the whole forbidden fruit thing, but as we all know all trends come to a end...And thank God too, if they didn't we would still be seeing more grown men in jorts? uke:


I was referencing manufacturers making blends that use, in part, Cuban tobacco because, with HSA having control of everything, I couldn't see too many Cuban Puros being commissioned outside of Cuba. They're going to want to protect their product (I'm thinking in years here, not months).


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## Frinkiac7 (Dec 12, 2008)

I will reiterate a point I'm sure has been made during four pages of threads. For selfish reasons, I'm just fine with the current state of affairs! I shudder to think what will happen to the Cuban cigar industry if/when the embargo is opened up and they are overrun with mass-market NC makers looking to exploit and make a quick buck. Rolling into town, buying up a whole crop, and setting the torcedors to work making 64 RG cigars as quick as they can! No thank you!


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## Regiampiero (Jan 18, 2013)

Frinkiac7 said:


> I will reiterate a point I'm sure has been made during four pages of threads. For selfish reasons, I'm just fine with the current state of affairs! I shudder to think what will happen to the Cuban cigar industry if/when the embargo is opened up and they are overrun with mass-market NC makers looking to exploit and make a quick buck. Rolling into town, buying up a whole crop, and setting the torcedors to work making 64 RG cigars as quick as they can! No thank you!


That's true, but I've seen that happen already, there's a B&M near my house that sells Cohiba with a yellow band that says Republica Domenicana. He was trying to sell them to me saying they were real Cohibas that were exported to the D.R. and then sold as legal cigars. He obviously had never smoked a real Cohiba because that thing was a 6 x 60 torpedo, but I'm sure other people have fallen for it.


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## Tobias Lutz (Feb 18, 2013)

Regiampiero said:


> That's true, but I've seen that happen already, there's a B&M near my house that sells Cohiba with a yellow band that says Republica Domenicana. He was trying to sell them to me saying they were real Cohibas that were exported to the D.R. and then sold as legal cigars. He obviously had never smoked a real Cohiba because that thing was a 6 x 60 torpedo, but I'm sure other people have fallen for it.


The $6.99 should tip someone off as to their authenticity :biggrin: Perhaps I'm weird, but I wouldn't buy from someone that tried that kind of BS with me again.


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## szyzk (Nov 27, 2010)

Tobias Lutz said:


> The $6.99 should tip someone off as to their authenticity :biggrin: Perhaps I'm weird, but I wouldn't buy from someone that tried that kind of BS with me again.


One thing I can't stand is scumbag cigar sellers. Trying to pawn off something as Cuban when it definitely isn't and/or just misrepresenting a cigar in the first place makes that guy a total scumbag cigar seller in my book.


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## Regiampiero (Jan 18, 2013)

Tobias Lutz said:


> The $6.99 should tip someone off as to their authenticity :biggrin: Perhaps I'm weird, but I wouldn't buy from someone that tried that kind of BS with me again.


I never bought cigars from this seller, its just a liquor shop with a small walk-in humidor near my house where I sometimes buy some booze. The part that really upsets me is that even after I took is entire sell's pitch apart by telling him how the size, label and price point were all wrong, he still insisted I should buy it. Some people don't know when to quit lying I guess.


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## OnePyroTec (Dec 11, 1997)

Perfecto Dave said:


> What embargo? Honestly, for selfish reasons, I like things just the way they are. No embargo, no cigars. Not in the way we know it now....much worse I'm afraid.


That about sums it up. Why fix what isn't broke?


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