# Cigars as an investment



## kitchenwarrior (Jun 13, 2017)

I asked this question on the general cigar discussion a couple members thought it might solicit a more in depth response here " Does anyone store cigars as a long term investment. I.E. vintage wine or craft beer people will pay a premium for beers that are no longer in production or a previous years vintage. Or vintage wine can fetch a premium if preserved in proper conditions years down the road. Is this something that happens in the cigar world as well? Does anyone buy boxes with the intention of holding onto them for years to later collect a premium or trade for other vintage cigars"? 







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## bpegler (Mar 30, 2006)

The reputable vintage dealers are mostly British. Some of the shops sell vintage cigars that they've had in their possession for decades. A single Dunhill Cabinetta from the 1980s will run in excess of $500. 

There are also annual auctions, where vintage boxes are sold for 4 and occasionally 5 figures. 

There are quiet markets run by insiders for vintage boxes.

There are also scams. And cigar trading boards that are like the Wild West.

If someone wanted to make money, even very serious money, it would certainly be possible. Cohiba ELs typically double or triple in price after 5 years or so.

But unless you were well known in the cigar community, it would be very difficult to make the sales.

What I'm describing is different, of course, than flipping boxes for a quick profit. That's very similar to the whiskey market, where popular items get bought and sold almost immediately.


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## TonyBrooklyn (Jan 28, 2010)

Bob as always has pretty much summed it up. I really have nothing to add except to say that for me personally. 
Cigars are meant to be smoked cars are meant to be driven Women are meant to be fondled.:vs_cool:


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## Scap (Nov 27, 2012)

I invest for my own amusement. Have no intention to ever sell any off.


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## Semper Noctem (Feb 10, 2017)

bpegler said:


> The reputable vintage dealers are mostly British. Some of the shops sell vintage cigars that they've had in their possession for decades. A single Dunhill Cabinetta from the 1980s will run in excess of $500.
> 
> There are also annual auctions, where vintage boxes are sold for 4 and occasionally 5 figures.
> 
> ...


Those people in the whisk(e)y market, specifically the allocated bourbon market, make my blood boil. They buy up every limited bottle they can and then sell them on the secondary for 2-5x of retail.


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## SBjanderson (Jul 11, 2017)

Semper Noctem said:


> Those people in the whisk(e)y market, specifically the allocated bourbon market, make my blood boil. They buy up every limited bottle they can and then sell them on the secondary for 2-5x of retail.


Case and point would be any of the Pappy Van Winkle line, if you look up the MSRP on their website they sell bottles for a reasonable price. For some reason... Oh wait... The reason pointed out above... They sell for outrageous amounts of money.


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## Semper Noctem (Feb 10, 2017)

SBjanderson said:


> Case and point would be any of the Pappy Van Winkle line, if you look up the MSRP on their website they sell bottles for a reasonable price. For some reason... Oh wait... The reason pointed out above... They sell for outrageous amounts of money.


Pappy is good, but I wouldn't pay more thank 2x retail for any of them.

I'll just leave this here:


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## scott1256ca (Jan 4, 2017)

> Those people in the whisk(e)y market, specifically the allocated bourbon market, make my blood boil. They buy up every limited bottle they can and then sell them on the secondary for 2-5x of retail.


They are like scalpers. 
When hobbyists buy this stuff and then sell it a few years down the road because they decide they don't want to consume it, or they realize it is worth money, and the frankly need the money more than the item, I have no problem with it. But when you buy up limited editions etc. just to profit from it later or even immediately, then you ruin it for the hobbyists. Just like scalpers who purchase all the tickets and jack up the price by double so the real fans don't get a reasonably priced ticket. This is why concerts sell out in 15 seconds, even when the band tries to set a reasonable price.
I also think that unless you know what you are doing it could be a tough way to make a few bucks. You have to put some money in up front, knowing you have to sit on it for 5-7 years before it is going to bring any profit and hope nothing goes wrong along the way. Also, you DO need that reputation. No one is going to want to spend $1000 on a box of 7 yr old cigars if they think they were kept in a storage locker the whole time.


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## gunnersguru (Sep 10, 2016)

other than the rarest of rare cigars would you make any long term profit . I have bought some 2yr old boxes that go for 300 new/stock for 250 . so you buy a new 300 box ( I hope care for it ) then sale it 2yrs latter for 250.


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## TonyBrooklyn (Jan 28, 2010)

People like to pay big bucks for old stuff, i must be worth a fortune!:vs_laugh:


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## Champagne InHand (Sep 14, 2015)

SBjanderson said:


> Case and point would be any of the Pappy Van Winkle line, if you look up the MSRP on their website they sell bottles for a reasonable price. For some reason... Oh wait... The reason pointed out above... They sell for outrageous amounts of money.


Too much counterfeiting going on. I would pass.

Drink the regular Buffalo Trace if you are a big bourbon guy.

With Habanos and the continuing mould study elsewhere, I would be hard pressed to even smoke the vintage cigars.

When in Orlando this year, the shop I was at had so many cigars with reported plume.

No we know that most plume is done type of fungus.

Caveat Emptor or buyer beware.

I now know that the box I bought having the little white dots, which I wiped down as well as wiping the box out, were a yeast strain common to hands.

Most fungi is fairly harmless if smoked, but for anybody that has a compromised immune system or is using bio drugs for arthritis, eczema, or anything else, these drugs like steroids really lower your immune system's ability to fight off infections, cancerous cells etc.

When I read the findings and one of them was aspergillis, which is all too common I thought of fungal infections I have seen in the hospital. Aspergillosis is one of the nastiest to treat. Mucor being the worst.

These fungi are everywhere but especially in soils.

With more info coming out daily, I just wouldn't want to be buying or holding a stockpile of Habanos.

That's just me. I'll keep enough for myself to smoke for a couple years as I like to age them myself, but I check up on things.

Flipping anything has inherent risks.

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## mi000ke (Feb 8, 2014)

I invest in financial markets, and my portfolio is up over 16% year to date.
I invest in real estate, and that portfolio has returned about 13% year to date

I buy cigars to smoke and whiskey to drink, and my consumption of both is up about 20% year to date.

I'd say things are going well.


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