# Heartfelt beads going above RH



## rubic (Dec 16, 2013)

After reading the rave reviews on here and elsewhere about the heartfelt beads I decided to give them a try. Bought two pucks to start, one at 70% and the other at 65%. With a calibrated hygrometer I get readings up to 75% with the 65% beads, and 79% with the 70% beads. You can see what I mean in the attached image.
Is this normal?

I'm using a spray bottle filled with distilled water to douse the beads. Not sure if there's something I'm doing wrong.


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## Nature (Jul 30, 2012)

My guess is too much dousing. They might be oversaturated. Let them dry out.
Also, how wet are the cigars in the jar? In an airtight environment like a sealed jar, they should need very little, if any additional moisture added.


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## rubic (Dec 16, 2013)

Yeah I wondered about the beads being overly wet. I've tried several different levels. Even with 3/4 of the beads white, the humidity is still at 75, when it should be 65.
They were in a cedar humidor previously, which was at 70%RH. The jar doesn't seem to be airtight at all. The beads go from fully translucent to white after about 3 weeks. I did have the jar without any humidification device for a while but the humidity steadily fell over time.


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## danmdevries (Jan 31, 2014)

Ive found my beads need very very little added hydration. But, ive also been on a buying binge for the last few months. Still, the wet-shipped cigars have actually caused my boxes to run high until I quit messing with the beads and let em do their two way job.

In one of by hybrids, I only put oven-dried beads in because the boxes carried so much moisture the beads were saturated and the rh held above 70. After week, still hot some high readings but were much more uniform.


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## tjhemp (Dec 29, 2013)

The only time I have had my beads run over the RH is if they are over saturated. Otherwise they have always been spot on. RH is tricky sometimes because there are so many factors that can cause it to run higher or lower than expected.


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## Gdaddy (Sep 20, 2012)

I would take the beads completely out of the humidor until they dry out. Your RH is way too high and your cigars are sucking in that moisture. Not good.
Very simply ... spraying water in the humidor won't lower the rh it raises it.


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## rtrimbath (Sep 22, 2013)

I've been having trouble with mine too. I put a pound of 65% in the base of my humidor, and they run at about 71-73%. I did spray them initially, but only till about a quarter were translucent as a test. The odd thing is the beads I used up top, which came from a different 65% bag work great. It has had me seriously thinking I got the wrong percentage beads. I'm going to let them fully dry out and go from there.


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## Gdaddy (Sep 20, 2012)

There is a misconception that the 'beads' come in different strength levels and are all somehow 'designed' to maintain a specified RH. This is NOT true. Beads are all the same product. If you buy a bag of 65% beads it simply means they have already been acclimated to that level of moisture. If you take those 65% beads and spray them down with water they are no longer 65% beads. There is a misconception that ALL beads need to be sprayed down in order to somehow activate them. This misconception has sent plenty of people down the wrong road to high humidity levels.

My advise is to take the beads you have purchased and simply place them in your humidor without doing anything to them. For some reason this is difficult for many people. Then, after a week or two, adjust accordingly if needed. If you have high RH the last thing you want to do is introduce more water into your humidor in an effort to make the beads work better.


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## Laynard (Oct 10, 2013)

Gdaddy said:


> There is a misconception that the 'beads' come in different strength levels and are all somehow 'designed' to maintain a specified RH. This is NOT true. Beads are all the same product. If you buy a bag of 65% beads it simply means they have already been acclimated to that level of moisture. If you take those 65% beads and spray them down with water they are no longer 65% beads. There is a misconception that ALL beads need to be sprayed down in order to somehow activate them. This misconception has sent plenty of people down the wrong road to high humidity levels.
> 
> My advise is to take the beads you have purchased and simply place them in your humidor without doing anything to them. For some reason this is difficult for many people. Then, after a week or two, adjust accordingly if needed. If you have high RH the last thing you want to do is introduce more water into your humidor in an effort to make the beads work better.


I thought this was true for HCM beads, but HF was predesigned? Maybe I'm wrong.


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## Gdaddy (Sep 20, 2012)

rtrimbath said:


> I've been having trouble with mine too. I put a pound of 65% in the base of my humidor, and they run at about 71-73%. I did spray them initially, but only till about a quarter were translucent as a test. The odd thing is the beads I used up top, which came from a different 65% bag work great. It has had me seriously thinking I got the wrong percentage beads. I'm going to let them fully dry out and go from there.


You probably got the right percentage beads you changed them to a higher rh when you sprayed them down.

Let them dry out and then set them somewhere that has 65% RH. They will acclimate to that RH and once again become '65% beads'.


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## TJB (Dec 10, 2012)

I always thought the HF beads had a different ratio of salts or kind of salt on them that "sets" them. The HCM beads I heard are clay based so they have to "acclimate." I would let them dry out a bit and suck the moisture out of your cigars from a dry state. I just built a wineador and my beads have been a little oversaturated as well and are running about 67.

If it was true that the HF beads have just been acclimated then there would be no real benefit to buying them over KL.


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## SeanTheEvans (Dec 13, 2013)

I'd agree with others who have mentioned that you are wetting them too much. They can't suck extra moisture out of the air if they themselves are already saturated. You said they go white in 3 weeks. What is the RH when they are all white? I can't imagine 70%. You should never wet them more than half if your RH is running too high. Good seal + wet sticks (new ones) means the beads will constantly be pulling moisture out of them to make the environment at 65%. If there is too much (beads are saturated), you need to dry the beads to continue. Wetting them will exacerbate the problem by keeping the beads filled at max capacity faster. After they reach this point, the humidity will remain at whatever it is until it slowly leaks out the jar. 

In conclusion - put beads in dry, as they are taking moisture out of wet (70%) cigars. Don't wet them more if the RH is already too high.


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## USHOG (Dec 28, 2012)

Sounds like to much water in the beads to me. An easy way to get rid of extra water in the beads is to freeze a water bottle (place it in a bowl to catch the water) in an air tight container with the beads, the cold from the frozen water bottle will condensate the water in the container lowering the water level in the beads. I have a large enough humidor to do this inside my humidor when the Humidity goes above 65% to regulate it, but you could use a cooler or plastic container that will do the same thing.


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## Gdaddy (Sep 20, 2012)

TJB said:


> I always thought the HF beads had a different ratio of salts or kind of salt on them that "sets" them. The HCM beads I heard are clay based so they have to "acclimate." I would let them dry out a bit and suck the moisture out of your cigars from a dry state. I just built a wineador and my beads have been a little oversaturated as well and are running about 67.
> 
> If it was true that the HF beads have just been acclimated then there would be no real benefit to buying them over KL.


The HF beads are of higher density and are MUCH more efficient than KL. They hold more moisture and work much faster. So there is a great advantage to using them.
However, these beads do come preconditioned at the RH they advertise. No need to 'activate' them either or you'll change the RH. Just put them in the box close the lid and step away from the humidor. The top museum quality beads are all preconditioned for a precise setting.

They can also be easily reconditioned up or down. In dry areas they may need a boost of moisture every now and then. Misting with direct water can cause harm by causing them to crack open and become less efficient. So a damp sponge placed in the humidor will raise the RH level safely and properly. In Florida for example,when the RH is too high, they can be dried easily with a hair drier.


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## Fuzzy (Jun 19, 2011)

Not sure where you are or how your cigars are stored. I live in a high humidity area and never wet the 65% HF beads in my airtight storage. This, due to the fact that most of my purchase arrive on the wet side and, the average RH outside is almost always above 70%. 

I actually have to dry my beads a couple times a year, done whenever the hygrometer reads above 65% for more than a few days.

I also use a combo of 65% boveda packs and 65% beads in resting tupperdor and rarely do I even check the RH since the cigars smoke so well when I finally smoke them.


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## kcviper (Mar 15, 2014)

I put my 65% HF beads in my new humi without wetting at all and it really helped stabilize the humi. I find that they can go a long time in-between wetting with DW and that a little DW goes a long way. I really like them and once they settle in, yours will hit 65% pretty steadily like mine do. GL......


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## mikbry24 (Jun 18, 2015)

Gdaddy said:


> The HF beads are of higher density and are MUCH more efficient than KL. They hold more moisture and work much faster. So there is a great advantage to using them.
> However, these beads do come preconditioned at the RH they advertise. No need to 'activate' them either or you'll change the RH. Just put them in the box close the lid and step away from the humidor. The top museum quality beads are all preconditioned for a precise setting.
> 
> They can also be easily reconditioned up or down. In dry areas they may need a boost of moisture every now and then. Misting with direct water can cause harm by causing them to crack open and become less efficient. So a damp sponge placed in the humidor will raise the RH level safely and properly. In Florida for example,when the RH is too high, they can be dried easily with a hair drier.


Gdaddy, do you realize your comments on this topic are in complete opposition to the directions that come with the HF beads? I would be interested to hear David's (Heartfelt) comments if anyone has them. I may dry mine out and give them another go with your advice. Thanks for the input!


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## SeanTheEvans (Dec 13, 2013)

mikbry24 said:


> Gdaddy, do you realize your comments on this topic are in complete opposition to the directions that come with the HF beads? I would be interested to hear David's (Heartfelt) comments if anyone has them. I may dry mine out and give them another go with your advice. Thanks for the input!


It's been many times well-documented on here that the directions that come with the HF beads are pretty worthless - but to each their own, all you can do is take the entirety of the information that you've come across and synthesize your own educated opinion from there


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## elco69 (May 1, 2013)

SeanTheEvans said:


> It's been many times well-documented on here that the directions that come with the HF beads are pretty worthless - but to each their own, all you can do is take the entirety of the information that you've come across and synthesize your own educated opinion from there


I love HF Beads! With that being said, Sean is right, the instructions are kinda useless. I just ran into my HF Beads running high on the RH. I was wondering why they were running high so I looked at my jar and noticed hat they were all clear and water was sitting at the bottom. DOH! :frusty: I added to much water and didn't drain it all the way. There was purely too much water in the jar and the beads all could not take in anymore. I shook out all the excess water and let it sit out side for an hour and they are perfect now.


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## JMatt (Apr 9, 2015)

mikbry24 said:


> Gdaddy, do you realize your comments on this topic are in complete opposition to the directions that come with the HF beads? I would be interested to hear David's (Heartfelt) comments if anyone has them. I may dry mine out and give them another go with your advice. Thanks for the input!


I guess Gdaddy can speak for himself but i also agree with him and i have spent considerable time experimenting. Marketing hype says they regulate at a fixed RH but fact is experience shows that the word regulate is confusing to most because they only buffer. They are preconditioned in an enclosure for the RH you specify so when received you should in general not require spraying or drying unless your temperature is far from 70 degrees F or the temperature the seller used to precondition. As they give off moisture the conditioned RH decreases ever so slightly and continues to do so. As they take in moisture the conditioned RH increases. Otherwise you wouldn't have to spray them or dry them. Beads are technically a desiccant regardless of marketing hype and seek a balance RH with surrounding air in both directions. Some types just do a better/ quicker job in the ideal cigar storage range.


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## rebus20 (Jan 1, 2015)

My hf 65 runs at 70 in my basement due to the humidity levels. My small humi in the living room for flavored sticks runs a constant 65.


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## Trip59 (Aug 9, 2010)

I'd been doing a good bit of thinking about this recently. I'm in Florida, nice and humid... outside. Inside, there's the AC or heat, or the open windows depending on the time of the year all wreaking havoc on the humidity. I'm ashamed to say that I let my coolidor go for a bit too long, my 65% beads dipped down to just under 60 and stayed there for quite a while. I had gotten away from cigars for various reasons. So when I quit cigs back at the beginning of May, I decided to give myself a week or two and then return to cigars, once my taste and sense of smell returned. In the meantime, I needed to fix the humidity. I didn't want to do violent things to the humidity, so rather than spraying, dipping, dunking, soaking, etc. I simply added a jar of nice fresh silica gel. I always have a box of dry stuff on the shelf, use it for tons of things other than tobacco. With that jar, it took just 4-5 days to bring the RH back to the mid 60's without the quick shock of dunking. I left it there, then put the lid on when it got near where I wanted, and am keeping an eye on it.


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## JMatt (Apr 9, 2015)

that's a good way to do it Trip. I do that also in my humidor as my beads start to fall but not so quite as low as you let it get. Gel is a good way to go at restoring the set point you want as long as you keep an eye on it.


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## Gdaddy (Sep 20, 2012)

mikbry24 said:


> Gdaddy, do you realize your comments on this topic are in complete opposition to the directions that come with the HF beads? I would be interested to hear David's (Heartfelt) comments if anyone has them. I may dry mine out and give them another go with your advice. Thanks for the input!


Yes, I'm aware that the instructions are incorrect. :smile:

It's a fact that silica beads don't like direct water contact. They crack and split. This comes from the manufacturer. They also come pre-conditioned at a specific RH simply by the amount of water they contain. It's easy to take them up or down to a different rh level. They NEVER need to be 'energized' by spritzing them. Horrible advice.

I don't understand why the instructions say what they say but I'd listen to the manufacturer.


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## Jcarpen (Jun 14, 2015)

I've had a similar situation I just bought a large puck of heatfelt 65% but when put in a ziplock bag for about a week it reads 70% and I know the digital hygrometernal is calibrated correctly and I did nothing more then take the puck of beads out and put it in the ziplock bag without adding any dw, most beads already looked slightly clear out of the factory packaging.


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## mikbry24 (Jun 18, 2015)

Gdaddy said:


> Yes, I'm aware that the instructions are incorrect. :smile:
> 
> It's a fact that silica beads don't like direct water contact. They crack and split. This comes from the manufacturer. They also come pre-conditioned at a specific RH simply by the amount of water they contain. It's easy to take them up or down to a different rh level. They NEVER need to be 'energized' by spritzing them. Horrible advice.
> 
> I don't understand why the instructions say what they say but I'd listen to the manufacturer.


Thanks, Gdaddy. This kinda makes me rethink things a bit. I ordered some cigars recently and have some 69 RH Boveda Packs and going to try that for a while. Not so sure about the beads anymore. Really appreciate the feedback/information.


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## elco69 (May 1, 2013)

Me thinks if you charge them wrong they will over hydrate like mine did. When I first got them, they were all white and no clear ones. I put them in a nylon and dipped half of it into DW for 20 seconds and then let the excess drip off completely. My wineador ran solid at 65% for a month, then a bunch of new sticks came in and my RH dropped and held 62% for a week, probably didn't help that that door was open for over 30 minutes, reorganizing the drawers and my stash to accommodate the 100+ new sticks that came in. I followed a reputable youtube reviewer's advice for recharging and he submerged the beads into tap water, I just did it in DW and wow did my RH go up above 70. I had to dry them out and redo it like the first time and they are solid at 65 again.


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## Gdaddy (Sep 20, 2012)

elco69 said:


> Me thinks if you charge them wrong they will over hydrate like mine did. When I first got them, they were all white and no clear ones. I put them in a nylon and dipped half of it into DW for 20 seconds and then let the excess drip off completely. My wineador ran solid at 65% for a month, then a bunch of new sticks came in and my RH dropped and held 62% for a week, probably didn't help that that door was open for over 30 minutes, reorganizing the drawers and my stash to accommodate the 100+ new sticks that came in. I followed a reputable youtube reviewer's advice for recharging and he submerged the beads into tap water, I just did it in DW and wow did my RH go up above 70. I had to dry them out and redo it like the first time and they are solid at 65 again.


When you submerse them in water it will also wash off salts that are critical to maintaining the proper humidity. It is not how the beads were formulated to work properly and it's so easy to just leave them alone and let them do their job. Any adjustment up or down is very easily accomplished. Heat them in an oven to remove moisture and place them in air that has a higher RH and let them simply absorb moisture to a new level.

*DEMYSTIFYING SILICA GEL*

5.1.B ADDING MOISTURE
The simplest method for conditioning silica gel is to place it in a room or environmental chamber
set to the desired RH level. The best method of confirming that the silica gel is at the correct RH is
by measuring the RH of a sample batch of gel. This is done by placing the sample gel in a sealed
container or plastic bag with a hygrometer (use a large amount of gel relative to the surrounding
air), and allow a day for the RH within the bag to stabilize with the gel mixture. Although an
approximate RH value can be calculated based on weight, this method is not recommended
because of its margin of error.
• Methods of speeding up conditioning time:
o Spread the gel as thin as possible.
o Use a fan to circulate air around the gel.
o Periodically mix the gel layers to improve uniformity.
• For a single layer of bead, allow at least 4 days if the gel is initially dry, and longer if
spread as a thicker layer.
• Silica gel can be conditioned to a higher RH than the desired level, either to speed up the
conditioning process or because of the inability to control RH. If so, it is important to allow
2-3 day for the moisture to equilibrate within and between the gel beads, especially if beads
with different moisture contents are mixed together.
• *The direct addition of water through mist spraying or immersion is not recommended, since
the high heat of decrepitation causes silica gel beads to crack and fragment. Although silica
gel retains its hygroscopic properties, the overall response time of silica gel in a tray will
slow down because of denser packing from the mix of large beads and smaller fragments. *

5.1.A REMOVING MOISTURE
The most efficient method of removing moisture is with heat. Although silica gel has a very high
melting temperature (1600º C), it will lose its chemically bound water and hygroscopic properties
if heated above 300º C. In addition, there is a new class of indicator gels, incorporating organic
dyes that are heat sensitive and their color indicating dye will be effected above 125-150º C
(Goldberg and Weintraub 2001). Therefore, it is not recommended that indicating silica gel be
heated above 120º C and regular gel be heated above 200º C. The principle impact of a lower heat
of regeneration is that a longer time is required to dry the gel and there is less potential for the
degradation of silica gel properties.
In a conventional oven, the time of regeneration varies from minutes to hours, depending on
temperature and the thickness of the gel. Although silica gel can be dried in a microwave oven, it
is difficult to determine the temperature inside the gel. Also, since metal cannot be used in a
microwave oven, only glass, ceramic or microwave safe plastic with a high melting temperature
should be used to hold the gel, since the individual beads can become very hot.

http://www.apsnyc.com/uploads/Demystifying Silica Gel.pdf


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## HBNDN (Aug 9, 2017)

Gdaddy said:


> There is a misconception that the 'beads' come in different strength levels and are all somehow 'designed' to maintain a specified RH. This is NOT true. Beads are all the same product. If you buy a bag of 65% beads it simply means they have already been acclimated to that level of moisture. If you take those 65% beads and spray them down with water they are no longer 65% beads. There is a misconception that ALL beads need to be sprayed down in order to somehow activate them. This misconception has sent plenty of people down the wrong road to high humidity levels.
> 
> My advise is to take the beads you have purchased and simply place them in your humidor without doing anything to them. For some reason this is difficult for many people. Then, after a week or two, adjust accordingly if needed. If you have high RH the last thing you want to do is introduce more water into your humidor in an effort to make the beads work better.


That is great to know


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## Kidvegas (Oct 17, 2016)

HBNDN said:


> That is great to know


Lol....i was gonna blast ya with the DEAD THREAD...foolery but, there's definitely some useful knowledge in this thread!!!!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## HBNDN (Aug 9, 2017)

Kidvegas said:


> Lol....i was gonna blast ya with the DEAD THREAD...foolery but, there's definitely some useful knowledge in this thread!!!!
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Haha Thanks!


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## ras_oscar (Aug 30, 2015)

So, are you telling me that there are no chemical differences between 60RH, 65RH and 70RH HF beads? That all beads come off the same production line, and merely receive initial factory conditioning at different RH levels? I didn't know that. I was fixin' to buy different RH level beads for summertime.


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