# Warning: NJ residents being charged back-taxes on Internet Purchases.



## uptown_cigar

I got a call from a customer this morning who said that he received a letter from the State of NJ, claiming that he owes money in taxes for cigars that were purchased from these people BACK IN 2003!!! I thought it might be a fluke, until someone else on another board told me the same thing. He also got the letter from the state today. Just thought everyone should be aware of this. Oh, and a side note....someone from this company was BANNED from another board a few months back. Just thought I would mention it.


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## mryellowx

*Re: NEW HAVANA CIGARS in OH...not good*

Thats the state. If you read the fine print on almost any online retailer its says if the customer is out of state they are soppose to pay their own states tax.


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## uptown_cigar

*Re: NEW HAVANA CIGARS in OH...not good*



mryellowx said:


> Thats the state. If you read the fine print on almost any online retailer its says if the customer is out of state they are soppose to pay their own states tax.


So does that mean that anything I purchase out of state should be taxed? There is no tax on purchases made from out of state. This doesn't apply to anything else...only tobacco. Also, I missed the fine print you talk about. And I usually read EVERYTHING in the fine print.


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## uptown_cigar

*Re: NEW HAVANA CIGARS in OH...not good*

New Havana Cigars said that these records were given to the state from Fedex. So NJ decided that based on the values on the packages that was given to Fedex, this is how they will base the tax rate.


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## JDC20

*Re: NEW HAVANA CIGARS in OH...not good*



uptown_cigar said:


> So does that mean that anything I purchase out of state should be taxed? There is no tax on purchases made from out of state. This doesn't apply to anything else...only tobacco. Also, I missed the fine print you talk about. And I usually read EVERYTHING in the fine print.


Yes, a use tax is "supposed" to be paid on any purchase that come from outside the state if the item is shipped in. It is the consumers responsibility to report.

Also, NJ has something funny going on as I believe that they require retailers to report to them any tobacco shipped into the state. I know a number of online retailers that do so and only do so to the state of NJ.

Edit: The Fedex thing makes more sense, but NJ is known to try to collect the tax.


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## uptown_cigar

*Re: NEW HAVANA CIGARS in OH...not good*



JDC20 said:


> Yes, a use tax is "supposed" to be paid on any purchase that come from outside the state if the item is shipped in. It is the consumers responsibility to report.
> 
> Also, NJ has something funny going on as I believe that they require retailers to report to them any tobacco shipped into the state. I know a number of online retailers that do so and only do so to the state of NJ.
> 
> Edit: The Fedex thing makes more sense, but NJ is known to try to collect the tax.


Thanks for the explanation. I'll spread the word.


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## BamBam

*Re: NEW HAVANA CIGARS in OH...not good*



uptown_cigar said:


> Thanks for the explanation. I'll spread the word.


soooo...being a fellow retailer do you still stand by your damaging claim that your competitor is "not good". This is the first time I ever heard anything negative about NHC.

This seems a sort of strategy as a retailer. Put a title that a competitor is "not good" so everyone sees it whether they open the thread or not. Then in the thread the retailer finds out the claim is false, yet the title remains for all to see.

Sort of like putting something damaging on the front page of a newspaper and then retracting it the next day on page 3 where noone looks.


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## uptown_cigar

*Re: NEW HAVANA CIGARS in OH...not good*



BamBam said:


> soooo...being a fellow retailer do you still stand by your damaging claim that your competitort is "not good". This is the first time I ever heard anything negative about NHC


In my post title, I wrote "not good" referring to the situation. Also, this is after TWO of my customers received these letters. I'm just looking out for them and for everyone else that is tired of getting SCREWED by the tax nazis.


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## BamBam

*Re: NEW HAVANA CIGARS in OH...not good*



uptown_cigar said:


> In my post title, I wrote "not good" referring to the situation.


That is not how I took it, and I'm sure not how anyone else took it.

the title is pretty straight forward, it has the name of a cigar company, the state where it's located so there's no mistake of the exact company, and the words "not good". Pretty obvious.



uptown_cigar said:


> I'm just looking out for them and for everyone else that is tired of getting SCREWED by the tax nazis.


ummmm.....I don't think so. Just to clarify...the State of NJ is the "Tax Nazi" not New Havana Cigars. If you wanna look out for people then shine the spotlight where it belongs, the State doing the Taxing, not on a competing business.

These types of antics don't make me wanna deal with a company that comes from that angle. :2

I call BS. Back Pedal on


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## uptown_cigar

*Re: NEW HAVANA CIGARS in OH...not good*

Bambam,

Were you banned from another board going under a different name back in September? Just trying to figure out if you are the same person I'm thinking about. Mr Punch?


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## srduggins

*Re: NEW HAVANA CIGARS in OH...not good*

I have to agree with BamBam on this one. Good job calling him out.


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## uptown_cigar

*Re: NEW HAVANA CIGARS in OH...not good*

Sorry to hear that. I stand by what I wrote.


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## kansashat

*Re: NEW HAVANA CIGARS in OH...not good*

Not to be confrontational, or throw rocks, but I can see where it looked kinda like you might be casting New Havana Cigars in Ohio in a less than favorable light.

Not that you meant it that way, but it could be seen that way.


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## BamBam

*Re: NEW HAVANA CIGARS in OH...not good*



uptown_cigar said:


> Bambam,
> 
> Were you banned from another board going under a different name back in September? Just trying to figure out if you are the same person I'm thinking about. Mr Punch?


Nope. Never been banned for callin things like I see em. :tu


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## uptown_cigar

*Re: NEW HAVANA CIGARS in OH...not good*



BamBam said:


> Nope. Never been banned for callin things like I see em. :tu


My mistake. And he wasn't banned for calling things like he sees them. He knows why he was banned. If you work there or deal with him, you would probably know who he is. But thanks anyway for the clarification.


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## Stick

*Re: NEW HAVANA CIGARS in OH...not good*



uptown_cigar said:


> Mr Punch?


Is a member here, profile seen *here*.



uptown_cigar said:


> I got a call from a customer this morning who said that he received a letter from the State of NJ, claiming that he owes money in taxes for cigars that were purchased from these people BACK IN 2003!!!


Info on *use tax*. Yes, one is legally supposed to pay taxes on out of state purchases such as trough a catalog or on the internet. For NJ, see *here*.

Might want to PM a mod and ask to have the thread title changed. :2


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## wattsd

*Re: NEW HAVANA CIGARS in OH...not good*

I would think that anyone doing business with NHC on this board would have clicked the thread to see what was going on, then realized that the author did not intend on slamming the company but rather the state....If someone is reading the title and taking another ones word that this company is "not good" than that someone is an idiot and shouldn't be smoking cigars with the rest of us. I understand both points but don't think the author should have to worry about the title being damaging to the companies reputation. After all....we all clicked the link and found out different. Now I'm going to go to the NHC and see what the fuss is about...maybe spend some money.

But thats just me


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## dannysguitar

*Re: NEW HAVANA CIGARS in OH...not good*

Drama fo yo mama!


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## Nabinger16

*Re: NEW HAVANA CIGARS in OH...not good*

The title to the thread may or may not be misleading to some, but Israel is a good guy. I'm sure it wasn't his intent to start an argument about the integrity of a shop that's almost 500 miles away.


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## SeanGAR

*Re: NEW HAVANA CIGARS in OH...not good*



wattsd said:


> If someone is reading the title and taking another ones word that this company is "not good" than that someone is an idiot and shouldn't be smoking cigars with the rest of us.


_NEW HAVANA CIGARS in OH...not good_

The thread title is pretty clear. _New Havana Cigars in OH ... not good._ Please explain, oh brilliant one, what that means if other than ... er ... New Havana Cigars in OH ... not good? LOL.


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## Nabinger16

*Re: NEW HAVANA CIGARS in OH...not good*



Stick said:


> This may very well be true. Nonetheless it would be prudent to ask that the thread title to be changed. :2


I'll agree 100% but it's possible the request has already been made.


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## uptown_cigar

*Re: NEW HAVANA CIGARS in OH...not good*



Nabinger16 said:


> I'll agree 100% but it's possible the request has already been made.


PM sent


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## doctorcue

*Re: NEW HAVANA CIGARS in OH...not good*


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## uptown_cigar

*Re: NEW HAVANA CIGARS in OH...not good*

I apologize for my carelessness in choosing the title on this thread and have asked a MOD to change it.


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## vudu9

*Re: NEW HAVANA CIGARS in OH...not good*



doctorcue said:


>


I Freakin' love that pic!!! Can't stop laughing!


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## rx2010

*Re: NEW HAVANA CIGARS in OH...not good*

NHC is a class operation with EXCELLENT customer service

this tax thing stinks for those affected though


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## stevieray

*Re: NEW HAVANA CIGARS in OH...not good*



uptown_cigar said:


> So does that mean that anything I purchase out of state should be taxed? There is no tax on purchases made from out of state. This doesn't apply to anything else...only tobacco. Also, I missed the fine print you talk about. And I usually read EVERYTHING in the fine print.


As a retailer I would think you would be up on the tax laws. Maybe your shop doesn't do internet/phone orders from out of state. The owner of the shop is required to keep records on file of all transactions. If the Tax Man comes calling, asks for the records, and threatens to fine the shop or even worse, pull your tax permit if you don't provide the info.......what would you do?

Now, if I was a retailer and I was going to call out another retailer in a public forum I would make damn sure I knew what I was talking about before I did it as well as being very carefull about the wording of the post. Just my :2


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## themoneycollector

*Re: NEW HAVANA CIGARS in OH...not good*

I saw this from another person as well. We should keep this discussion constructive.

We should keep track of any shops that are having their customers targeted with letters by different states.

Also, what triggered this? I still don't understand why NJ is seeking tax money from NHC located in OH?


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## JCK

*Re: NEW HAVANA CIGARS in OH...not good*



themoneycollector said:


> I saw this from another person as well. We should keep this discussion constructive.
> 
> We should keep track of any shops that are having their customers targeted with letters by different states.
> 
> Also, what triggered this? I still don't understand why NJ is seeking tax money from NHC located in OH?


NJ is looking to collect sales tax on purchases made from NJ residents from the mentioned OH retailer...

I believe there are certain manufacturers that report sales to distributors/retailers to tax agencies and certain manufacturers that don't.

I'm surprised Fedex would get involved in this unless they're under so much scrutiny these days.


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## kheffelf

*Re: NEW HAVANA CIGARS in OH...not good*



uptown_cigar said:


> Bambam,
> 
> Were you banned from another board going under a different name back in September? Just trying to figure out if you are the same person I'm thinking about. Mr Punch?


It is interesting to think about New Havana now having problems with this and what they (he) did to a really great brick and mortar owner. If other shops start getting into trouble I might start thinking differently, but right now I am suspicious.


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## Stick

*Re: NEW HAVANA CIGARS in OH...not good*



themoneycollector said:


> Also, what triggered this? I still don't understand why NJ is seeking tax money from NHC located in OH?


It's called a *use tax* (link.) New Jersey is collecting taxes from New Jersey residents who bought cigars from Ohio over the internet, presumably.

For more discussion on CS see *this thread*, especially *this post*.

In New Jersey:
_"The Wholesale Tobacco Products Sales and Use Tax
Act imposes a 30% sales or use tax on all tobacco
products exclusive of cigarettes. This would include
but is not limited to:
• Cigars
• Pipe tobacco
• Snuff
• Chewing tobacco
This 30% tax is imposed upon the wholesale price
upon the sale, use or distribution of a tobacco product
within this State." 
...
"Evasion of the WTPS&U Tax Act carries criminal
penalties similar to violations of the Cigarette Tax Act."
...
*Undocumented importation from other states is the
most common form of evasion*. [emphasis added] OCI along with other
units of the Division of Taxation are enforcing the
provisions of this act both by criminal prosecution
and audits of tobacco product retailers, wholesalers
and suppliers."_

For the rest of the document see *here* (link).


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## PerpetualNoob

One thing they never explain, how the Hell is J. Random Smoker supposed to know the wholesale price of the cigars he buys?


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## Stick

PerpetualNoob said:


> One thing they never explain, how the Hell is J. Random Smoker supposed to know the wholesale price of the cigars he buys?


Here's the letter NJ sent to a member here which breaks down how they calculated the tax owed (*link*):

_"Dear Taxpayer,

The Federal Government requires any entity or persons shipping cigarettes or tobacco products in interstate commerce to file a monthly report of all shipments to the receiving state's tax administrator. Information received by the State of New Jersey indicates that you are in receipt of untaxed cigars from Blue Havana II Cigars and Gifts.

New Jersey Statutes Annotated, N.J.S.A. 54:40B-1 et. seq. (Tobacco Product Tax) levies a 30% tax on every tobacco product and N.J.S.A 54:32B-1 et. seq. (Sales and Use Tax) levies a tax of 7% on the purchase price including the 30% tax.

The New Jersey Division of Taxation has determined that you are liable for the following tax amount based on the purchase listed below:

Date 4/30/2007
Description: Cigars $90.00
Tobacco product tax @ 30% $27.00
Amount subject to sales tax @ 7% $117.00

Tax Due $27.00
$ 8.19
Total Taxes to be remitted by the above named purchaser: $35.19

Please make your remittance payable to "State of New Jersey" and mail in the envelope provided along with a copy of this letter within (30) days of the date hereof. Failure to respond will result in the assessment of penalties and interest as provided by New Jersey statute.

Very truly yours,
Audit Services Branch
[Name], Technician, MIS
[Phone number]
Cigarette & Tobacco Products Tax"_


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## kansashat

Stick said:


> Here's the letter NJ sent to a member here which breaks down how they calculated the tax owed (*link*):
> 
> _"Dear Taxpayer,
> 
> The Federal Government requires any entity or persons shipping cigarettes or tobacco products in interstate commerce to file a monthly report of all shipments to the receiving state's tax administrator. Information received by the State of New Jersey indicates that you are in receipt of untaxed cigars from Blue Havana II Cigars and Gifts.
> 
> New Jersey Statutes Annotated, N.J.S.A. 54:40B-1 et. seq. (Tobacco Product Tax) levies a 30% tax on every tobacco product and N.J.S.A 54:32B-1 et. seq. (Sales and Use Tax) levies a tax of 7% on the purchase price including the 30% tax.
> 
> The New Jersey Division of Taxation has determined that you are liable for the following tax amount based on the purchase listed below:
> 
> Date 4/30/2007
> Description: Cigars $90.00
> Tobacco product tax @ 30% $27.00
> Amount subject to sales tax @ 7% $117.00
> 
> Tax Due $27.00
> $ 8.19
> Total Taxes to be remitted by the above named purchaser: $35.19
> 
> Please make your remittance payable to "State of New Jersey" and mail in the envelope provided along with a copy of this letter within (30) days of the date hereof. Failure to respond will result in the assessment of penalties and interest as provided by New Jersey statute.
> 
> Very truly yours,
> Audit Services Branch
> [Name], Technician, MIS
> [Phone number]
> Cigarette & Tobacco Products Tax"_


It doesn't seem right that they 1st hit you with a tobacco excise tax, then charge you a sales tax on the excise tax itself. Seems like a form of double dipping to me.


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## JCK

Looks like this isn't just isolated to NHC either. That letter was generated from sales reporting from another vendor.


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## wattsd

*Re: NEW HAVANA CIGARS in OH...not good*



SeanGAR said:


> _NEW HAVANA CIGARS in OH...not good_
> 
> The thread title is pretty clear. _New Havana Cigars in OH ... not good._ Please explain, oh brilliant one, what that means if other than ... er ... New Havana Cigars in OH ... not good? LOL.


So now its attacks on peoples intelligence. Like I said, anyone influenced that much by the title of a thread is a friggin moron. All you have to do is click it, read about it, then make an educated decision about whether or not you will continue to do business with NHC. Or maybe you are the type of person who just does what everyone tells him without making any effort whatsoever in making your own choices. Why the hell am I taking flac, all I did was express MY opinion just like everyone else in this thread. Maybe you should let the grownups talk for a while before you start jumping in guns blazing trying to pick apart what someone wrote because your life is so meaningless you have nothing better to do. So sorry to make it personal but it seems thats the way things are now done on here.

Thank you everyone who had meaningful feedback, it was interesting.


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## wattsd

oh, and I liked the kitty pictures


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## Blueface

wattsd said:


> I would think that anyone doing business with NHC on this board would have clicked the thread to see what was going on, then realized that the author did not intend on slamming the company but rather the state....If someone is reading the title and taking another ones word that this company is "not good" than *that someone is an idiot* and *shouldn't be smoking cigars with the rest of us*





wattsd said:


> So now its attacks on peoples intelligence. Like I said, anyone influenced that much by the title of a thread is a friggin moron.


Thanks for the clarification.
I have learned a lot from this thread and your "Dale Carnegie" "How to win friends and influence people" training.
I learned I am an idiot.
I learned I am a moron.
I learned I should not be smoking cigars with the rest of CS members (Ji aka Khubli, that means we cannot meet up on the 28th).
.......and Sean is the one attacking people's intelligence?

Wow.


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## JCK

Blueface said:


> I learned I should not be smoking cigars with the rest of CS members (Ji, that means we cannot meet up on the 28th).


Yeah we can Carlos.. you forget I'm an idiotic moron! So we're in good shape.


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## piperman

I want the smiley face eating popcorn back.


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## NCRadioMan

*Re: NEW HAVANA CIGARS in OH...not good*



wattsd said:


> So now its attacks on peoples intelligence.





wattsd said:


> Like I said, anyone influenced that much by the title of a thread is a *friggin moron*.


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## Blueface

khubli said:


> Yeah we can Carlos.. you forget I'm an idiotic moron! So we're in good shape.


Glad we are not alone.
See ya on the 28th.
By the way, get ready for some great fish sandwiches, rum runners and Cuban coffee (and smokes of course).

Threadjack off.


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## JCK

Blueface said:


> Glad we are not alone.
> See ya on the 28th.
> By the way, get ready for some great fish sandwiches, rum runners and Cuban coffee (and smokes of course).
> 
> Threadjack off.


Just so I haven't completely lost my mind, we're talking about Saturday the 27th right?

Getting myself ready!


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## Blueface

khubli said:


> Just so I haven't completely lost my mind, we're talking about Saturday the 27th right?
> 
> Getting myself ready!


LOL

27th/28th?
What is the difference?

My bad. I have to program the 27th in my head instead of the 28th.


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## wattsd

Haha. Look.

The only point I am/was trying to make was that people who read the title of a thread, whether its bad or good, and make a decision based on reading just the title are idiots. If I started a thread and said "Cigars from Havana...not good" and people read that and then swore off those cigars, well draw your own conclusions. It comes down to one person making a comment about a business, and then being "called out" because someone else "THINKS" that person is just doing it to drum up business for themselves. People are always making smart ass comments just to drum up some drama when all they really had to do was ask a simple question. This isn't the first time a post was hijacked because people started pointing fingers and insulting each other. Even moderators are quick to get in on it now. And if this is the type of place where people with a 10,000 posts say little smart ass comments to those of us just starting out on here, than I guess thats the type of place this is. 

The title has been changed. It was determined the author did not infact mean what it appeared he wrote. Anyone who didn't read on and figure that out, but rather swore off a cigar store, is still an idiot.

We can start a new thread if people still want to bicker about something.


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## Prospector

Does anyone know if there are any other states that are doing the same? I know pretty much every state imposes a use tax (which usually approximates it's sales tax rate), but these excise taxes are quite something else.


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## JCK

Georgia's Excise is 22% or 23% plus 8% sales tax in my county. If a Retailer or Fedex were to report this sale to the State of Georgia, then I imagine I'd get hit with a letter from Georgia's Department of Revenue sometime in the future.

I imagine every state does it, just depends on what information is voluntarily given to each state.


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## piperman

I dont think AZ does it because most smoker of ciggs go to the Indain Res to pickup cartons of smoke for 30.00, and out of the res they are 45 to 50


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## Prospector

Can I assume that if a retailer or online vendor ships something to another state, he doesn't have to add his own state's excise taxes? I know that's the way it is for sales taxes.


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## BlueHavanaII

This is not new. I was involved in this back in June 2007. Click here for Cigar Advisor blog

The state of Georgia residents making out of state purchases to report them and pay the OTP tax. If not reported, there could be a fine of $250 as well.

As far as I have heard, only NJ has gone after the consumer, which sounds like it sucks, but can save the B&M industry by leveling the playing field. My prices are about 12% higher than online retailers, simply because we have a tax to pay. It's not fair to us that you can order from CI, Famous, etc and avoid taxes while undercutting the little B&M.

Every state has a budget and taxes are their primary source of revenue. If the states collected their due on tobacco (which shouldn't be taxed separately, but that's another rant), maybe they'd lower taxes (haha... yeah right, but you know what I mean!).


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## l0venpeace

Prospector said:


> Can I assume that if a retailer or online vendor ships something to another state, he doesn't have to add his own state's excise taxes? I know that's the way it is for sales taxes.


That is true. If I ship to Texas, I charge you Texas taxes because I am located in Texas. If I ship to you in California, I charge you no tax, and it is your responsibility to report it yourself.

FYI- California appointed a special task force last year to go after online tobacco purchasers for back-tax. In only a couple months they had billed for millions of dollars. Watch out for the tax man!


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## SeanGAR

*Re: NEW HAVANA CIGARS in OH...not good*



wattsd said:


> *So now its attacks on peoples intelligence.* Like I said, *anyone influenced that much by the title of a thread is a friggin moron.* All you have to do is click it, read about it, then make an educated decision about whether or not you will continue to do business with NHC. Or maybe you are the type of person who just does what everyone tells him without making any effort whatsoever in making your own choices. Why the hell am I taking flac, all I did was express MY opinion just like everyone else in this thread. * Maybe you should let the grownups talk for a while before you start jumping in guns blazing trying to pick apart what someone wrote because your life is so meaningless you have nothing better to do.* So sorry to make it personal but it seems thats the way things are now done on here.
> 
> Thank you everyone who had meaningful feedback, it was interesting.


I called you "brilliant one".

You called others idiots and friggin morons.

From your post, it is quite apparent that I am wrong.

Apologies for insinuating that you are a "brilliant one". As you have shown conclusively, you are not.


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## Only Fuentes

I realize that I'm late to this party. _*Let's make one thing absolutely crystal clear:*_ Israel (uptown cigars) meant absolutely NO harm to any other retailers in this thread. I have purchased from him several times and have the utmost respect for him!! I live 15 minutes from Holt's for crying out loud but chose to buy from him because he is a very customer oriented shop owner. His customers start calling him with these retro-tax charges and all he wanted to do was alert the membership here. There shouldn't even be a question in anyone's mind about his motives. This is a state tax issue not a supplier issue.

Bam Bam :

Have you ever bought from Uptown? If not then you have ZERO right to question his motives. You probably buy from NHC and are just as loyal to them as I am to my sources and that's fine but again that gives you ZERO right to question his motives without at least a PM about it. And before you start question MY motives know this: I spend more than $20k a year on smokes so I know more than a little than most about retailers and their motives.


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## SeanGAR

Only Fuentes said:


> Bam Bam :
> 
> Have you ever bought from Uptown? If not then you have ZERO right to question his motives.


Baloney.



> And before you start question MY motives know this: I spend more than $20k a year on smokes so I know more than a little than most about retailers and their motives.


:r

Seriously .. you write for MadTV?


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## BamBam

Just when I think I'm done with a thread



Only Fuentes said:


> _*Let's make one thing absolutely crystal clear:*_ Israel (uptown cigars) meant absolutely NO harm to any other retailers in this thread.


Thanks for speaking for someone else....since you can read his mind and all



Only Fuentes said:


> There shouldn't even be a question in anyone's mind about his motives.


There was...to more than a few



Only Fuentes said:


> This is a state tax issue not a supplier issue.


Then shouldn't it have been titled "New Jersey Tax Dept...Not Good"

Think about it



Only Fuentes said:


> Bam Bam :


What



Only Fuentes said:


> Have you ever bought from Uptown?


No



Only Fuentes said:


> If not then you have ZERO right to question his motives.


Wrong..my forefathers guaranteed that right for me



Only Fuentes said:


> You probably buy from NHC and are just as loyal to them as I am to my sources


Wrong again. never done business with them. Also never seen them post a negative comment about a competitor.



Only Fuentes said:


> but again that gives you ZERO right to question his motives without at least a PM about it.


Wrong again..see 2 above



Only Fuentes said:


> And before you start question MY motives know this: I spend more than $20k a year on smokes so I know more than a little than most about retailers and their motives.


Just because you spend a lot of money on cigars does not mean that you can read people and tell what their motives are.

Seriously....How do you correlate those 2 together?


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## kansashat

Perhaps we need to change the name of this thread to "One Knee-Jerk Begats Another Knee-Jerk?"

:r


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## montecristo#2

OK - I would like to bring this thread back on track.

I was under the impression, that the retailer had to notify the state that a purchased had taken place, otherwise how would they know you had bought tobacco? You could have bought a humidor for all they know.

I know this is the reason places will not ship cigarettes across state lines, as they have to be reported. It is not clear if cigars fall under that same category, but clearly some states do not care.

In terms of the use tax, if you buy anything online you are technically suppose to pay tax for it. :hn

So the question is did NHC report the transaction to NJ or was it FedEx or someone else? I have heard of these things happening with Fedex in the past and it is based on how much the retailer indicates on the shipping notice. I have heard of some places putting less on the shipping notice because of this (not necessarily related to tobacco).

I guess that is the question. Has anyone asked Dan at NHC? I am not sure he would want to answer if it was a yes, but I would also think he would want to clear this up as well. I have bought from Dan several times, I think they are a great shop.

I have also bought from Israel and Uptown (even before he worked there) and they are a great shop as well.


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## Stick

montecristo#2 said:


> I was under the impression, that the retailer had to notify the state that a purchased had taken place, otherwise how would they know you had bought tobacco? You could have bought a humidor for all they know.


It appears in at least one state that retailers are required to report the information to their state (Georgia), who then passed that information along to New Jersey. From *this thread*:



BlueHavanaII said:


> As FFX stated, I was the vendor. Tobacco taxes are not paid (or rebated) on out of state sales and *I am required to file both a "Schedule C" in Georgia with the name of the purchaser and city, as well as the invoice, for all out of state sales*. I have never heard of any states billing the consumer and wonder what it costs the state of NJ to go after this money (in this case, less than $30).
> 
> They also billed FFX for the sales tax. Has any else ever heard of a state go after intrastate sales tax on such a small amount?
> 
> In the future, I will make it clear that all taxes are the responsibility of the customer as all internet retailers do.
> 
> Jim





BlueHavanaII said:


> *The state of Georgia sends the Schedule C information to NJ*. I would also bet that this is a reciprocal agreement, so Georgia residents beware when buying from NJ!
> 
> Jim


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## Cigary

PerpetualNoob said:


> One thing they never explain, how the Hell is J. Random Smoker supposed to know the wholesale price of the cigars he buys?


 F'N A right, bubba. So, now we all have to patrol our mailboxes for said Gov't agency to drop a little note in our files saying we are defrauding the USA of taxes, esp. when we pay on the avg. 30 taxes a month as it is. My oh my, we just aren't paying enough as it is so let's all get together and ask the gov't to raise all of the bailouts to 1 trillion dollars instead and let's give all of our tax money to entitlement programs leaving us, the middle class, with virtually no money, forclosed houses, higher credit card interest because the Credit Card companies can raise their rates anytime they see fit now. We should all just roll over and sing Kumbi Ya and things will be forever wonderful.

(rant over)


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## montecristo#2

Stick said:


> It appears in at least one state that retailers are required to report the information to their state (Georgia), who then passed that information along to New Jersey. From *this thread*:


Ahh, that makes sense.

I believe in CA they pay the tobacco tax up front, so if they sell out of state, they need to submit paperwork to get reimbursed. That paperwork probably has a name and address. So if CA wanted to send that information to the buyer's state they could.

I guess my next question, as a Buyer, should I know this information before I make a purchase?


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## BlueHavanaII

montecristo#2 said:


> Ahh, that makes sense.
> 
> I believe in CA they pay the tobacco tax up front, so if they sell out of state, they need to submit paperwork to get reimbursed. That paperwork probably has a name and address. So if CA wanted to send that information to the buyer's state they could.
> 
> I guess my next question, as a Buyer, should I know this information before I make a purchase?


I don't think it's fair to assume that the retailers know every state's laws. Residents should be familiar to the rules of their own state.

Pertinent laws in Georgia are:

_O.C.G.A. § 48-11-2 (e) - ...Whenever cigars, cigarettes, or loose or smokeless tobacco is shipped from outside the state to anyone other than a distributor, the person receiving the cigars, cigarettes, or loose or smokeless tobacco shall be deemed to be a distributor and shall be responsible for the tax on the cigars, cigarettes, or loose or smokeless tobacco and the payment of the tax to the commissioner.

O.C.G.A. § 48-11-13 - (a) There is imposed a tax on every person for the privilege of using, consuming, or storing cigars, cigarettes, and loose or smokeless tobacco in this state on which the tax imposed by Code Section 48-11-2 has not been paid. The tax shall be measured by and graduated in accordance with the volume of cigars, cigarettes, and loose or smokeless tobacco used, consumed, or stored as set forth in Code Section 48-11-2.

(b) This Code section shall not apply to:
... (5) Cigars in an amount not exceeding 20 cigars which have been brought into the state on the person

O.C.G.A. § 48-11-14 - (a) Before any person acquires cigars, cigarettes, or loose or smokeless tobacco subject to the tax imposed by Code Section 48-11-13, such person shall register with the commissioner as a responsible taxpayer subject to the obligation of maintaining records and making reports in the form prescribed by the commissioner. The report shall be made on or before the tenth day of the month following the month in which the cigars, cigarettes, or loose or smokeless tobacco was acquired and shall be accompanied by the amount of tax due.

(b) If any person subject to the tax imposed by Code Section 48-11-13 fails to make the required report or makes an incorrect report, the commissioner shall assess the correct amount of tax due from that person from the best information available to him. A copy of the assessment shall be furnished the person by registered or certified mail or statutory overnight delivery, return receipt requested, or by personal service. Any person aggrieved by any assessment pursuant to this Code section may request a hearing in the manner provided in subsection (a) of Code Section 48-11-18.

(c) Every person subject to the tax imposed by Code Section 48-11-13 who fails to register with the commissioner as a responsible taxpayer, who fails to make a report within the time specified, or who fails to remit the tax within the time specified may be required to pay a penalty of not less than $25.00 nor more than $250.00 in addition to the tax and any other penalties imposed by law and found due by the commissioner. The commissioner may proceed to collect the tax and penalty in the manner provided in subsection (c) of Code Section 48-11-24._


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## themoneycollector

montecristo#2 said:


> Ahh, that makes sense.
> 
> I believe in CA they pay the tobacco tax up front, so if they sell out of state, they need to submit paperwork to get reimbursed. That paperwork probably has a name and address. So if CA wanted to send that information to the buyer's state they could.
> 
> I guess my next question, as a Buyer, should I know this information before I make a purchase?


That's a good suggestion, as a community we can track this kind of info


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## Finfan

Ah, New Jersey. A couple of years ago, my brother, who lives in north jersey, got a bill from the tax collector for $4,000 for cigarettes he bought online...I just moved back here to south jersey from RI, so I guess I will have to watch my mail for presents from the tax collector.


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## great ash

Welcome back to Jersey, brother!!!


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## icehog3

Only Fuentes said:


> And before you start question MY motives know this: I spend more than $20k a year on smokes so I know more than a little than most about retailers and their motives.


Does spending 20K+ a year on cigars make one more entitled to having an opinion than those who do not spend 20K?


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## pnoon

Only Fuentes said:


> And before you start question MY motives know this: I spend more than $20k a year on smokes so I know more than a little than most about retailers and their motives.


:r

I guess since I spent more than $5000 last year on car maintenance, I know more about automobile mechanics than you and the rest of the world.


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## Blueface

icehog3 said:


> Does spending 20K+ a year on cigars make one more entitled to having an opinion than those who do not spend 20K?





pnoon said:


> :r
> 
> I guess since I spent more than $5000 last year on car maintenance, I know more about automobile mechanics than you and the rest of the world.


If I were to have spent $5,000 on rectal exams, what would that make me?:r

My guess would be a "Wide Receiver".:r


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