# East Texas Medical Center decides discriminatory behavior not an issue



## Nurse_Maduro

The more I think about this, the more it angers me. I had to post it here, to see what everyone else thinks. Am I over-reacting?

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Commentary, News
*East Texas Medical Center decides discriminatory behavior not an issue*

Posted by John Daily ⋅ October 16, 2011 ⋅ 
Coming next: This, in your own home.

It is not news that most hospitals these days have a strict no-smoking policy. However, the East Texas Medical Center made news on October 12, when the Pittsburgh gazette.com posted a story stating that the facility would no longer consider _any_ tobacco users for employment beginning April, 2012.

This sounds so much like a clear discriminatory mandate that bears repeating: _Anyone_ who uses _any_ form of tobacco, smokeless or not, in_ any_ amount, even if it is only casual use in their own home, will _not_ be eligible for employment at the East Texas Medical Center beginning April, 2012.

I wanted so much to write this as a straight news story, but it angers me so much that I just can't seem to do so, even after several attempts at several different angles. What I do in my own home is_ my_ own business, _not_ the business of my employer. I just happen to be a nurse, and a pipe and cigar smoker. For the last month, I've avoided using all forms of tobacco as a show of solidarity with my girlfriend, who is kicking the cigarette habit. That's the beautiful thing about using other forms of tobacco: they don't have all those nasty addictive additives and compounds that cigarettes have; thus, it's not an issue to stay tobacco-free as long as she needs me to be, and it wouldn't be an issue for me to not smoke during my work week.

Sadly, however, it appears that our ability, as tobacco users, to make such decisions will be taken away from us if this is allowed to happen uncontested. As Syracuse, NY tobacco store owner Erik once said: "As long as your personal rights are more popular than my personal rights, it is ok to discriminate."

Clearly, the East Texas Medical Center believes that, too.

Source: The Pittsburgh Gazette.com: "Tobacco users need not apply"

(from Cigar Hell)


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## Mante

No I do not think you are over reacting. As long as any past time is legal then no employer has any right to discriminate against an employee for what they undertake on their own time. That is my view, as an employer.

I may not agree with an employees lifestyle choices but that is not my concern as long as it does not interfere with them carrying out their duties.

What's next? STD clinic workers not allowed to have sex? Train drivers not allowed to fly planes? 

To often the cigarette addiction is confused with tobacco use in my opinion.


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## David_ESM

All it will take is one lost law suit for that policy to be burned... Can't believe the hospital has a legal team dumb enough to sign off on that.


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## bcannon87

As an East Texan I believe this 100%! About 3 years ago I tried to go to work for ETMC where for 1 yr of my service they would put me through paramedic school. So we had to do a physical "test" and a written test. The guy running the physical test was one of those fitness nuts that looked like all food intake over the last 5 years has been protein shakes. Now I am not a guy of this stature but I'm not a blimp either. I have a torn rotator cuff and one part of the physical test is 10 continual minutes of chest compressions and on 2 different times slowed down slightly, just like everybody else. And passed the other parts of the test with more proficiency then the others in the test. Some couldn't even pick up the gurney with a patient on it. But as I was the only "larger" person in this test both times I believe the guy overseeing the test didn't much care for bigger people. And what really pisses me off is that some of ETMC's medics are much larger than I. So the article above is just another reason why I will not ever use ETMC!! I believe firmly that their discriminatory actions is BS and totally uncalled for! Just my :2


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## Nurse_Maduro

Tashaz said:


> Too often the cigarette addiction is confused with tobacco use in my opinion.


THIS. MY GOD, Warren, THIS.

I wish everyone would understand that the two terms are NOT interchangeable. Do you mind if I use that quote on the blog? I'll give you credit, of course.


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## Mante

Nurse_Maduro said:


> THIS. MY GOD, Warren, THIS.
> 
> I wish everyone would understand that the two terms are NOT interchangeable. Do you mind if I use that quote on the blog? I'll give you credit, of course.


Use away John but no need to give credit for common sense. :biggrin1:


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## Nurse_Maduro

bcannon87 said:


> As an East Texan I believe this 100%! About 3 years ago I tried to go to work for ETMC where for 1 yr of my service they would put me through paramedic school. So we had to do a physical "test" and a written test. The guy running the physical test was one of those fitness nuts that looked like all food intake over the last 5 years has been protein shakes. Now I am not a guy of this stature but I'm not a blimp either. I have a torn rotator cuff and one part of the physical test is 10 continual minutes of chest compressions and on 2 different times slowed down slightly, just like everybody else. And passed the other parts of the test with more proficiency then the others in the test. Some couldn't even pick up the gurney with a patient on it. But as I was the only "larger" person in this test both times I believe the guy overseeing the test didn't much care for bigger people. And what really pisses me off is that some of ETMC's medics are much larger than I. So the article above is just another reason why I will not ever use ETMC!! I believe firmly that their discriminatory actions is BS and totally uncalled for! Just my :2


Billy, that's just amazing. I cannot begin to imagine how frustrated that must have made you. :mad2:

Thanks, Warren! It fits right in with the other quotes.


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## Enrique1780

Seems odd as long as the employees don't engage in that behavior on hospital property. I don't see how this will hold up.


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## quo155

Great thread Nurse!

As an East Texan, one that was born at ETMC (yea, a long time ago), uses ETMC exclusively for my family's needs (often as I have three kids, one a 5 yr old tree climbing BOY! And, we have three HUGE hospital systems in Tyler, _so there is a choice_), a long history of family employment at ETMC...I will be checking into this and getting some facts. I don't doubt the story on this one bit...but I want to know if it has been contested and where it sits today as this was established a few months back. I hate this kind of discrimination and I too feel it not only injustice...but pure ignorance on ETMC's behalf as tobacco use is not only LEGAL, there is much separation between "cigarette smokers" and cigar/pipe smokers.

I will look further into this and report back what I find...as this is, in short...CRAP _from ETMC_...

I may need to look at the other MC systems here for my family needs, but I will also see if they have the same "rules" in place...


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## mturnmm

I hate to be the bearer of bad news....USAA has a policy of no tobacco use as terms of employment.


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## Nurse_Maduro

quo155 said:


> I will look further into this and report back what I find...as this is, in short...CRAP _from ETMC_...
> 
> I may need to look at the other MC systems here for my family needs, but I will also see if they have the same "rules" in place...


Most excellent response, Sir!! Can't wait to hear what hoops you have to jump through in order to find someone who'll actually know something.

@Monte: USAA=United Services Automobile Association?


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## quo155

Nurse_Maduro said:


> Most excellent response, Sir!! Can't wait to hear what hoops you have to jump through in order to find someone who'll actually know something.
> 
> @Monte: USAA=United Services Automobile Association?


As found at: Def - East Texas Medical Center Tyler -- Heart, spine care, neurological, cancer treatment, -- Health Information

*Tobacco hiring policies*_

1. Effective April 1, 2011 East Texas Medical Center Regional Healthcare System and it's affiliates will no longer hire applicants who use any form of tobacco/nicotine products. In addition to doing pre-employment drug screening a tobacco/nicotine test will also be done. If an applicant tests positive for tobacco/nicotine or prohibited drugs all employment offers will be revoked. In such cases the applicant may re-apply in six (6) months._

This does not address current employees. I just realized that I have one friend that works at ETMC who dips Copenhagen as I do, so I will check with him to see if this affected him and what his opinion is...as I know he dips at work.

With this in place, I am led to believe that this is probably the case for most hospitals...just assuming. I am curious what others know about other hospital policies on this issue.

I am looking into possible litigations against ETMC due to this policy, unfortunately as they are a huge system in East Texas, as are the other area hospitals...they may have the upper hand in this as we have a very "not so well ran" local government with too much $ in their pockets and well...I will leave it at that.


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## quo155

Looks like *Trinity Mother Frances*, one of the other big systems here joined with *ETMC* recently...

Looking a little further, we have a huge array of Nurse & Doctor staffing agencies that are currently adopting the same position on tobacco use as many docs and nurses work privately through these companies for the two large medical systems here in East Texas.

*UT**H*, UT Health Systems (University of Texas Health Center in Tyler)...WILL BE RIGHT BEHIND THEM...


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## JeffyB

I read an article online (don't remember where though) about a different hospital doing the same thing; their reasoning was that since the smoke clings to the clothing, it constituted "third hand smoke", and was still dangerous to patients, especially for those who are allergic to it.

What's next though - hospitals not accepting patients due to "third hand smoke" on their clothing?


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## Nurse_Maduro

quo155 said:


> As found at: Def - East Texas Medical Center Tyler -- Heart, spine care, neurological, cancer treatment, -- Health Information
> 
> *Tobacco hiring policies*_
> 
> 1. Effective April 1, 2011 East Texas Medical Center Regional Healthcare System and it's affiliates will no longer hire applicants who use any form of tobacco/nicotine products. In addition to doing pre-employment drug screening a tobacco/nicotine test will also be done. If an applicant tests positive for tobacco/nicotine or prohibited drugs all employment offers will be revoked. In such cases the applicant may re-apply in six (6) months._
> 
> This does not address current employees. I just realized that I have one friend that works at ETMC who dips Copenhagen as I do, so I will check with him to see if this affected him and what his opinion is...as I know he dips at work.
> 
> With this in place, I am led to believe that this is probably the case for most hospitals...just assuming. I am curious what others know about other hospital policies on this issue.
> 
> I am looking into possible litigations against ETMC due to this policy, unfortunately as they are a huge system in East Texas, as are the other area hospitals...they may have the upper hand in this as we have a very "not so well ran" local government with too much $ in their pockets and well...I will leave it at that.


I moved away from an area where one hospital owned everything, so I completely understand what you mean. Good luck with that! lol

And also, wow...this already took place in April 2011?? I really misinterpreted that. Just shows me that I really can't write when I'm so impassioned.

Thanks, brother. Keep us posted. Let us know if there's anything we can do to help.


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## Nurse_Maduro

JeffyB said:


> I read an article online (don't remember where though) about a different hospital doing the same thing; their reasoning was that since the smoke clings to the clothing, it constituted "third hand smoke", and was still dangerous to patients, especially for those who are allergic to it.
> 
> What's next though - hospitals not accepting patients due to "third hand smoke" on their clothing?


Yikes. Don't give them any more ideas, please! :biggrin:


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## Mante

What really scares me is that not long ago it was accepted that second hand smoke is as dangerous as first hand smoking (FALSE!) and now we have "Third Hand Smoke"? What the hell is going on when this is even entertained?:hmm:


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## quo155

In "light" of all of this CR$P...I am suffering from Tenth Hand Smoke (D.E.A.D.)

...from the smoker to the clothes to the hand to the mouse to the CPU to the internet (skipped a few steps here for conservative sake) to my CPU to my mouse to my hand to my mouth...D.E.A.D.! (*D*angerous *E*levated *A*rticular *D*isease, caused by tenth hand smoke)...

Hey, you laugh now...but this is the crap our grandkids will have to deal with & BTW, smoking will still be legal as they will always need the tobacco tax monies...for their lip injections... :rockon:


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## truckertim

Its a sad day in America when people begin to lose employment over something as personal as tobacco use.


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