# Building a personal supply of aged cubans -- a strategic inquiry.



## Roger Miller" (Apr 15, 2004)

I have a question for some of the long term Cuban cigar smokers that have developed a cache of personally aged boxes. 

How did you go about doing that?

I am sure that financial resources, storage capacity, and will power all came into play. So, what strategies have been successfully employed; from the small to grand scale?

Just curious.

_____
rm


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## Jsabbi01 (Feb 24, 2005)

I'm assuming not smoking the cigars plays a major role in long term aging...


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## RPB67 (Mar 26, 2005)

Hunting and talking to fellow botl's. I have a few boxes that I have aged for the past 10 years - 2 boxes of Monte#2s and a box of Cohibas. Thats the easy way. Aged cigars can be very expensive to buy.I am always talking to my fellow botl's.I have boughten some from an estate sale in England that they had 3 years ago, also I have a few cigar stores that I use and they have gotten me some good deals.They are the ones with the inside tracks on what their good customers have and want to get rid of. Its a hit and miss if you want the deals. Otherwise you will be paying top dollar. Be patient and do some hunting.


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## One Lonely Smoker (Jan 21, 2005)

Wow, finally a question that I can really help on, and a chance to spout my philosophy of cuba cigars which is:

1. There has NEVER been a tread that stated "Cubans set to reduce prices."
These things always go up, so while it may be expensive this year, yu can 
bet it will be more so next year. So why not stock up.

2. I have never heard anyone start a thread that stated "I aged my cubans
too long, and now all of the taste is gone." IME, they get better and
better every year, so why not stock up. 

3. IF the embargo ever lifts, it will be hard to get a really good cigar for
awhile I'll bet. This is like a bomb shelter for your sinful luxury. You will
have a nice buffer against the market until it improves. In fact, reasons
1 & 2 are really just pre-ambles to #3. #3 is the most important reason,
IMHO. It's gonna be good that you can freely smoke, but bad times as
far as supply and demand and RAMPANT counterfeiting!!!

4. And this is where it gets controversial. I age my stash in ice chests with
a humidifying element on top of the top box. They are packed in there,
although I am sure loose would be better. My cigars never taste like 
plastic, and they are in excellent condition. You do not need to buy a
piece of furniture to stash your stash in. But you will need your desktop
to get your smoking stash ready to smoke. Ice chested cigars need to
breathe a day or so before smoking, IME. Also, leave all your cigars in 
their original boxes and shut. IF you have some nice cedar boxes, you
should feel free to transfer sticks from a flat dress box to the cedar box
for storage. It really makes a difference. 

If it has been your habit to smoke everyday, you have to realize that you will be smoking 14 boxes a year +. If you can't afford that, you either have to slow down or forget aging. I have been stashing boxes for 3+ years and have over 50 boxes aging. I take out 2-3 sticks from most of the boxes and throw them in a large desktop. Some boxes are still sealed, many are unsealed but still intact. I mostly only smoke cigars with 3+ years of age now and it DID cost me alot of money, but I have no family to worry about. About 6 months ago I stopped buying anything. I did not want to start another ice chest, it was time to save money. But I will start again after the summer is over. It is a "jump in now or forget it" kind of thing as stated in rule 1 and 2. The quicker you start, the quicker you will start smoking more rounded cigars. This method also allows you to gauge the progress, since you are harvesting a few out of each box twice a year or so. I hope you can see my points and they are helpful to you. It is not important how big you start, just that you start. 
-----edit
I should also mention that the oldest box I have is 98, so I am not exactly some London shop or anything, but they were aged by me, so I know what they've been through. I am moving to a new place with a nice cool damp basement, so I am looking forward to moving them down there very soon, hehe.


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## Steeltown (Jan 18, 2005)

Great info One Lonely Smoker!


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## Da Klugs (Jan 8, 2005)

OLS - great post. Only thing I have to add is if you lack self control then just buy more than you possibly can smoke in 3-4 years.


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## The Prince (Apr 9, 2005)

As far as strategy, I always purchase two boxes of the same brand and vitola. One box for smoking now, one for aging. Seems to work well so far.


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## dvickery (Jan 1, 2000)

rm
what ols said is wisdom for sure and exactly the way i have gone about it (scary ols...i could have written the same reply...but unfortunately i am not that eloquent with a keyboard).

it really is quite simple...BUY MORE THAN YOU SMOKE.in 5 years you will have a nice stash of good smokes...in ten years...a realllly nice stash.

of all of ols's sage advice...i believe the most overlooked pearl is "leave all your cigars in their original boxes and shut".

derrek


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## MoTheMan (May 24, 2003)

Yeah! Very good info.
When I started smoking cigars, I had read enough & knew that cigars generally get better, mellower, rounder with age, although they maylose some of their kick (which I figured was OK 'cause they still ahve plenty of kick). So when I first started buying cigars by the box, I did so with the intention of aging them. I had every intention of letting boxes sit for 8-10 years, smoking only a stick or two at a time to enjoy; I do happen to have some cigars with that much age on them. Unfortunately, one of my greatest "vices" is that I like to share sticks with fellow BOTL's, and "unfortunately", the best stick I have tend to be ones with age on them. That has depleted my aged reserves a bit.

What RPB67 said is also very good advice. You can search to find some really good sticks . . . and they're out there, although they might sell for a premium.


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## One Lonely Smoker (Jan 21, 2005)

The Prince said:


> As far as strategy, I always purchase two boxes of the same brand and vitola. One box for smoking now, one for aging. Seems to work well so far.


Of course, I think he means when buying cigars you KNOW you love, buy two boxes at a time. Nothing is worse than buying two boxes of an unknown vitola and being stuck with them when you hate em. Well, there's lots worse, but that's bad. 
The last time I got Monte #2's, I just got three boxes. What's the harm in that? NOW. If you cannot keep up with your own demand financially, you could also get a BIG cedar box and drop 5 of every box you buy in that box and never smoke them. That way you'd have the box for smoking, but would always have the 5 "aged ones" waiting for you at some hopefully much later date. Of course, if they are incredible then, you will only have 5 and not the whole box. So it's good for budget tightness, but bad for having to find out the hard way that you cant replay time and get that long process back. TIVO for cigars does not exist.


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## sgoselin (Dec 12, 1997)

dvickery said:


> rm
> it really is quite simple...BUY MORE THAN YOU SMOKE.in 5 years you will have a nice stash of good smokes...in ten years...a realllly nice stash.derrek


There it is. Buy more then you smoke. I really got going on building a stashat the start of the cigar boom in the 90's. Forget about Cubans,you could not even get Dominican and Honduran cigars consistently so I began laying them down. I always had a humidor, but I never really stocked up. Luckily my business did extremely well for several years and I would take my end of year bonus and invest in cigars and better storage. As I transitioned into mostly (eventually all) Cuban cigars it required more research and money. I was also able to invest in some vintage stuff which remains salted away (to some extent). My goal was and is to be able to smoke a well aged Cuban cigar every time I smoke and I have achieved that goal. I have not bought a box of cigars since December of 03 and yet I am sure that I still have several thousand cigars. I find myself running low on go to brands like the Bolivar PC, I should really pick up a few cabs soon. It just takes time and money.


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## MiamiE (Mar 5, 2005)

if you dont have the money to buy more then your screwed, like me. i dont smoke a lot which is a good thing so i only buy 1-2 boxes at a time, never of the same smoke.


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## Steeltown (Jan 18, 2005)

Roger Miller" said:


> So, what strategies have been successfully employed; from the small to grand scale?


What about trying to convince the wife that instead of the stock market/mutual funds that cigars are a great investment, and that you should channel money away from your 401K and into cuban cigars for retirement? That would be one lofty strategy, has anyone made it work for them?


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## Nely (Nov 11, 2004)

Great advice here. My strategy: to get a second part-time job, invest in a cooled cabinet, and filled the thing up. Unfortunately, i'm still stuck in the afternoon shift and training in the mornings. But that can all changed soon *crossing fingers*
steeltown I could stare at that sig pic all day!!!


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## refill (Feb 22, 2005)

Great info OLS salutes to ya!


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## Lamar (Dec 12, 1997)

Amen to the best advice of all...store them in boxes with the lids sealed shut. Makes all the difference in aging be it one box or a thousand.


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## ESP (Jan 1, 2000)

~??er Miller"].... financial resources, storage capacity, and will power all came into play. ...
_____
rm[/QUOTE]

when it comes to cigars I have no will power, so the next best thing is going broke! yes spending lots of money is the only way!


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## sgoselin (Dec 12, 1997)

when it comes to cigars I have no will power, so the next best thing is going broke! yes spending lots of money is the only way! [/QUOTE]

Hey ESP, I have not been around much for a while. How ya doin'? I have no will power either, money is an easier alternative. LOL!


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## One Lonely Smoker (Jan 21, 2005)

sgoselin said:


> My goal was and is to be able to smoke a well aged Cuban cigar every time I smoke. It just takes time and money.


Whoomp, There it is...my point exactly and his goal was the same one I had. I figured if that was the way CC's were sold these days, I would have to adapt. Keep in mind in the old days, you could regularly find 3-10 year old boxes if you had good contacts. Once that dried up, I had to shift my way of doing things, and I pledged never to smoke a CC before it's time. Of course as I get older, newer cigars are intriguing to me too. But I'd rather that be an every so often kind of thing.


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## One Lonely Smoker (Jan 21, 2005)

Lamar said:


> Amen to the best advice of all...store them in boxes with the lids sealed shut. Makes all the difference in aging be it one box or a thousand.


Just to add another point. I have never thought that it was bad to store different cigars together in a humi, I used to empty my boxes into a 400 ct. humi and separate the vitolas with cedar sheets. And they never swapped flavors, that's not the point I'm making. But my cigars never got plume, they never got a whole lot better and they tended to lose whatever nice oily sheen they may have shipped with. What I eventually figured was that no matter how full I would pack this box, there was more oxygen than there needed to be and probably not the best seal in the world besides. One day I just said F it, I am boxing everything back up and just throwing them in a cooler. Everything is back to normal, cigars are oily and supple, and the flavors just burst to life. Keep em sealed up boys!!! As humans, We don't die so much as we rust...we oxidize until we die. It keeps us alive and kills us at the same time. And if you have cedar boxes laying around, feel free to rebox your dress boxed cigars for storage. It makes them nice and oily.


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## Lamar (Dec 12, 1997)

One more common sense suggestion...

Buy with the end in view. According to your tastes, buy some boxes that will be ready as per your tastes in two years, others that will be to your liking in five years and others that will peak in ten years or so that way you will always have a supply of aged sticks.

Trust your judgement on this...if you like your party shorts at the two year mark then that works for you or if you are one of those wierdo's like me that likes the D4 after the sick period then its your tastes alone that matters.

Hope this helps but I like RA at 2 years, Shorts at 4 years, SP Beli's at 5, Boli just about anything at 4 to 5, Punch with as much age as I can...

Enough of that...develop your own taste in cigars and age them to your liking and time schedule.


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## Fredster (Jan 26, 2004)

Great info by One Lonely Smoker. Unfortunately I fall into the category of smoking one a day or more so I smoke em up quick! I have to buy them with age which is a lot more expensive than being patient (and smoking less!)


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## Bman (Jun 10, 2003)

One last thing to consider with all the great advise from the good brothers here....proper storage....you need to invest in a quality cabinet that will maintain stable RH...temp will be a key in safe storage due to bug attacks....no matter how old a box of cigar are, they will be worthless without stable humity control...the major item to building your aged stock...buy, buy, buy, buy, smoke a few, buy, buy, buy....Bman


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## DownUnder LLG (Mar 29, 2005)

Jsabbi01 said:


> I'm assuming not smoking the cigars plays a major role in long term aging...


Bugger, thought I was doing something wrong 

Seriously, great advice from the BOTL here, as I am starting to look toward this myself this info has helped a great deal. Thanks.


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## Bruce5 (Jul 27, 2003)

Great thread guys. Kudos to many of you for sharing your wealth of info on such a widely viewed topic. I am a little behind some of these very experienced members. Please note that I only own cubans and my goal is also to smoke only aged ones. As far as building my supply, I do a little of everything: 
.
1) Buying current production and aging them yourself: OLS nailed this one. This certainly would be the cheapest as there is no premium paid for aging. You also have the benefit of knowing how your cigars have been aged. I will expound upon this point below. 
.
2) Buying aged to mature cigars: Lamar made a great point. While I have some very mature cigars, there are many I love at 3-5 years. As far as the more mature cigars I do not have the patience to age cigars for such a lengthy time. I have found a good vender for these... and this is where I do have to pay the larger premium. One point I would like to mention (mainly warn less experienced smokers) is that some venders or their sources have sub-optimal storage conditions which ruins the cigars. These cigars lose their flavor and it never comes back. Find a good vender. 
.
3) Having found some venders that age cigars properly, here is my philosophy. I search for moderately aged cigars and weigh out the premium for doing so. Lets say the average dress box of PCs (current production) runs approx $120. Many times I have found that I could find the same dress box for approx $145 with 3-7 years of age on them. 25 cigars, $25 more. This premium of $1 per stick for some decent aging is easily worth it for me. I can usually find similar pricing for 50 cabs and larger size cigars, sometimes slightly higher. In fact, when friends ask I always say "Pay the extra dollar." This is the happy medium that works best for me.  
.
Again, great job here guys.


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## pinoyman (Jan 28, 2005)

Bruce5 said:


> Great thread guys. Kudos to many of you for sharing your wealth of info on such a widely viewed topic. I am a little behind some of these very experienced members. Please note that I only own cubans and my goal is also to smoke only aged ones. As far as building my supply, I do a little of everything:
> .
> 1) Buying current production and aging them yourself: OLS nailed this one. This certainly would be the cheapest as there is no premium paid for aging. You also have the benefit of knowing how your cigars have been aged. I will expound upon this point below.
> .
> ...


*I'm with you Amigo!*


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## MiamiE (Mar 5, 2005)

some great info here. although finding the 'aged' vendors is a bit harder than most think.


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## One Lonely Smoker (Jan 21, 2005)

Bruce5 said:


> One point I would like to mention (mainly warn less experienced smokers) is that some venders or their sources have sub-optimal storage conditions which ruins the cigars. These cigars lose their flavor and it never comes back. Find a good vender.


This is an excellent point!!!!!!!!!!
I have a vendor that I really like, I trust him, he trusts me, he delivers the goods and really makes me feel like one of his best clients (I am, lol). BUT, I have some boxes from him from 98 and although they are OK, I am SURE that they could be alot better. I mean, they have lost all of their personality. They are very smooth and somewhat tasty, but I would bet you any money that they were not stored in perfect conditions since 98. Everything I get from him is great as long as it is from this century, but I am thinking that it is best to age my own from here on out. No more oldies from this guy, even though he is really not stocked in that way anyhow. Hell, there's no one I trust more than me for storing them right long term. If you have to have aged stix, choose wisely my young padawans


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## Fredster (Jan 26, 2004)

One Lonely Smoker said:


> This is an excellent point!!!!!!!!!!
> I have a vendor that I really like, I trust him, he trusts me, he delivers the goods and really makes me feel like one of his best clients (I am, lol). BUT, I have some boxes from him from 98 and although they are OK, I am SURE that they could be alot better. I mean, they have lost all of their personality. They are very smooth and somewhat tasty, but I would bet you any money that they were not stored in perfect conditions since 98. Everything I get from him is great as long as it is from this century, but I am thinking that it is best to age my own from here on out. No more oldies from this guy, even though he is really not stocked in that way anyhow. Hell, there's no one I trust more than me for storing them right long term. If you have to have aged stix, choose wisely my young padawans


Very good points here for sure. However, Cuban cigars are very inconsistant. If you have boxes from 98 that don't have a lot of zip, I would bet it's just lacking quality tobacco (ligero), or good quality tobacco was available when they were rolled, but the blend got screwed up. Sometimes Cubans have decent construction but don't taste right (weak or no depth). I know it's been mentioned in c.a. that there has been a ligero shortage in the past. I have experienced cigars that just taste weak from all of my vendors from time to time. I'm sure storage plays a role once in a while, but I would bet most of the time it's the tobacco. Seem's like to me from 97-02 it's real hit or miss. I have had incredible cigars from these years, and I've had lots of duds that had descent draws, but the flavor just wasn't right. I've had a lot personally from 97-02 that tasted like they were just lacking ligero. I don't know for sure, and I'm not an expert by any means, but I think storage is a small factor most of the time. I mean if cigars are your business, how hard is it to keep them at a good humidity and temp? Unless it's some rinky dink place. Some of these vendors have hundreds of thousands of $$$ sitting around and storage is monitored quite closely. Just my 2 cents. On a side note, I split a jar of Monte Millemium robustos recently with Bruce and Heartpumper. Totally flat and no complexity at all. Bruce and I had a jar before that one ( a few months) from the same vendor and they were incredible. I don't know for sure, but I assume they were sitting right next to each other for the last 5 years. This vendor has always had them in stock so I don't think they just came in from somewhere else where they were stored improperly.


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## cigarflip (Jul 4, 2004)

This is a great post and a lot of worthy advice from seasoned veterans. I know it's hard to exercise self control when dealing with the current production cigars that are already smoking well. My question though is, if the 03's, 04's and 05's are smoking so well now, can aging improve them that much more?


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## Bruce5 (Jul 27, 2003)

cigarflip said:


> This is a great post and a lot of worthy advice from seasoned veterans. I know it's hard to exercise self control when dealing with the current production cigars that are already smoking well. My question though is, if the 03's, 04's and 05's are smoking so well now, can aging improve them that much more?


.
Yes, aging will take them to an entirely different level
where there is much more enjoyment.


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## Fredster (Jan 26, 2004)

cigarflip said:


> This is a great post and a lot of worthy advice from seasoned veterans. I know it's hard to exercise self control when dealing with the current production cigars that are already smoking well. My question though is, if the 03's, 04's and 05's are smoking so well now, can aging improve them that much more?


My guess is the 03's-05's will improve, but they will age quicker. If they taste pretty good now, I'm guessing they will peak earlier than cigars in the past. Instead of peaking at 10 years, some may reach a peak in 5-7. Of course I'm just guessing nobody knows the future and can tell for sure. Some 03's I've had definately got very good after a couple years. Some say the cooking or fermenting process changed around 03. Could be, although I've never heard any Habanos official confirm this. Could also be that when the quality control was stepped up in 03 (this is very evident) they also decided to age the tobacco a bit longer in bales before rolling. My guess is the later is true. In any event the cigars are tasting pretty darn good fresh these days (for the most part) so logic would seem they will age and mature qucker.


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## coppertop (Dec 29, 2003)

I've smoked some of my 04 PLPC with about 6 or 7 months of age on them and they freaking rock. So 4 or 5 yrs I can't wait.


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## MoTheMan (May 24, 2003)

Fredster said:


> My guess is the 03's-05's will improve, but they will age quicker. If they taste pretty good now, I'm guessing they will peak earlier than cigars in the past. Instead of peaking at 10 years, some may reach a peak in 5-7. Of course I'm just guessing nobody knows the future and can tell for sure. Some 03's I've had definately got very good after a couple years. Some say the cooking or fermenting process changed around 03. Could be, although I've never heard any Habanos official confirm this. Could also be that when the quality control was stepped up in 03 (this is very evident) they also decided to age the tobacco a bit longer in bales before rolling. My guess is the later is true. In any event the cigars are tasting pretty darn good fresh these days (for the most part) so logic would seem they will age and mature qucker.


Second hand information coming from Mitch at
indicates that the tobacco crops from '03 onwards been of exceptional quality, many believe because Altadis has been investing very heavily in growing Cuban tobacco (i.e., providing fertilizer, machinery, raw supplies). Also, it's been said, although I have no confirmation on this, that Cuba has been producing excess tobacco for aging/storing since '03 onwards.

Just between you & me, if all that's true, it means good news for all of us. :w


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## coppertop (Dec 29, 2003)

MoTheMan said:


> Second hand information coming from Mitch indicates that the tobacco crops from '03 onwards been of exceptional quality, many believe because Altadis has been investing very heavily in growing Cuban tobacco (i.e., providing fertilizer, machinery, raw supplies). Also, it's been said, although I have no confirmation on this, that Cuba has been producing excess tobacco for aging/storing since '03 onwards.
> 
> Just between you & me, if all that's true, it means good news for all of us. :w


Thanks for the info Mo......good info as always


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## One Lonely Smoker (Jan 21, 2005)

I think it should be noted that this situation is alot like the stock market. When you have someone on TV talking about why people should invest in it, they always make the point "that while no one can guarantee from day to day what the stock market will do, and thus, investors should invest with caution, over the last 70 years, the stock market has returned blablabla percent".....and so it goes with Cuban cigars. And I think this is an especially sensitive time for "investing" in cuban cigars. I think it is indeed a safe bet that the influx of cash has allowed the Cubans to pour resources into the soil and into better methods of handling the tobacco, but few people can definitively say just HOW they are aging the tobacco today and how it differs from the methods of recent decades. Lots of us have read about flue-curing experiments and such. And don't get me started on wrapper burn. So it should be taken as a warning that no one knows at this early stage if we can depend on our cigars to age the way they always have in the past. I am certainly hopeful that this is a QC thing and a "aged tobacco in, better cigar out" type deal. I would be crushed to find that the cigars I am nurturing will fade away the way some lesser cigars do. All of this aside, though, I stick to my previous post. Buy Now, buy lots, buy smart.


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## BP22 (Apr 13, 2006)

Just bumping an older thread, some real good info.


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## ToddziLLa (Oct 17, 2005)

Never read this, good stuff.


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## 68TriShield (May 15, 2006)

Thats some good reading...


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## BP22 (Apr 13, 2006)

ToddziLLa said:


> Never read this, good stuff.


I love going through some of the older posts. Tons of great info. I was searching for info on "cooking" and came accross this gem of a thread.


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## noprob1017 (Jul 29, 2006)

I defintiely enjoyed this thread. I've had some luck finding some 3 to 7 year old boxes from vendors I trust. Others I'm aging myself.

Guy


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## Bruce5 (Jul 27, 2003)

It is funny how far I have fallen since this thread began. :hn 

I have multiple boxes now from the 80s, 70s and even into the 60s. I try mainly to smoke 94 or earlier before the blends changed on most cigars. 

Thanks for pulling this one out of the cellar.


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## n2advnture (Aug 9, 2004)

Buying plan for aging:

First you have to calculate how much you smoke:

Let's say I...I mean you smoke 1 per day  
= 365 sticks per year (average)
= 15 boxes per year (average)
= 1.25 boxes per month (average)

Double that to 2.50 boxes per month (1 to smoke and 1 to age)

*** Make a list of vitolas and wait until they are on sale to purchase them.

*** Buy “semi” aged stock - 03 or earlier and try to pick them up on sale. 

*** This is the key part ***
Every time you open 1 box, immediately purchase another to replace the box you just opened (box #3). By the time you smoke through box #1 & box #2, this box will be 6 years old (if purchased as an 03’ box).

In 12 months you will have 30 boxes that have a minimum of 2 years and some up to 3/4 years of age. (assuming you don’t open any – if you open 1, you have to buy another. If you open 1 of each, you should have purchased 45 boxes in 12 months – smoking through 15 of them leaving you with 30 at the end of 1 year.)

In 24 months, you will be smoking boxes with a minimum of 3 years of age and some up to 4/5 years of age.

In 36 moths, you will be smoking boxes with a minimum of 4 years of age and some up to 5/6 years of age….you get the idea.

Make any sense?

Hope this helps
~Mark


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## n2advnture (Aug 9, 2004)

cigarflip said:


> ...My question though is, if the 03's, 04's and 05's are smoking so well now, can aging improve them that much more?


It definitely remains to be seen of the late 03s through mid 05s are going to age well or not. It seems it took them a while to work out the draw machines which left a lot of vitolas spongy and underfilled. As the tobacco shrinks with age, this may result in a VERY undesirable draw (ie extremely loose).

Just my opinion though

~M


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## BP22 (Apr 13, 2006)

n2advnture said:


> Buying plan for aging:
> 
> First you have to calculate how much you smoke:
> 
> ...


Awesome info Mark...Thanks!!!


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## scrapiron (Jun 24, 2006)

I've yet to find any aged stock more than about a year old. Would love to though...


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## Fredster (Jan 26, 2004)

Bruce5 said:


> It is funny how far I have fallen since this thread began. :hn
> 
> I have multiple boxes now from the 80s, 70s and even into the 60s. I try mainly to smoke 94 or earlier before the blends changed on most cigars.
> 
> Thanks for pulling this one out of the cellar.


Bruce,
you definately have fallen down the slippery slope bro! I have actually slowed way down after 10 years of daily Habanos smoking. Partly for health reasons and partly due to my new money pit, I mean house. You need to get down to Florida again, you wouldn't recognize the place now. Been averaging a couple smokes a week.


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## Twill413 (Jul 19, 2006)

n2advnture said:


> In 12 months you will have 30 boxes that have a minimum of 2 years and some up to 3/4 years of age. (assuming you don't open any - if you open 1, you have to buy another. If you open 1 of each, you should have purchased 45 boxes in 12 months - smoking through 15 of them leaving you with 30 at the end of 1 year.)


45 boxes in a year seemed like a lot to me, and could run anywhere from $5,000 for shorts or somethign similar, to anywhere north of $20,000. Then I started thinking about how much sticks with good age in good condition cost. You are looking at 2-3X at least return on investment in 5-10 years. Now good luck convincing a significant other of that if you have one.


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## n2advnture (Aug 9, 2004)

Twill413 said:


> 45 boxes in a year seemed like a lot to me, and could run anywhere from $5,000 for shorts or somethign similar, to anywhere north of $20,000. Then I started thinking about how much sticks with good age in good condition cost. You are looking at 2-3X at least return on investment in 5-10 years. Now good luck convincing a significant other of that if you have one.


That's just assuming you smoke 1/day and 2-3x is conservative IMHO on 5-10 years IMHO as well 

If you smoke 1/day at $11, you talking $4015/yr so it would be double that.


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## Twill413 (Jul 19, 2006)

I am not disagreeing with you at all. I was trying to be conservative with an estimate on ROI. I didn't want to throw something ridiculous out there. It's actually a really good plan for ending up smoking aged stock of cubans every day for the rest of your life. And could be just as inexpensive as smoking new premium NC's. I haven't had a cuban yet, but I assume most people would rather smoke an at LEAST 3 year old cuban over a new NC any day of the week. Great thread.


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## n2advnture (Aug 9, 2004)

Twill413 said:


> I am not disagreeing with you at all. I was trying to be conservative with an estimate on ROI. I didn't want to throw something ridiculous out there. It's actually a really good plan for ending up smoking aged stock of cubans every day for the rest of your life. And could be just as inexpensive as smoking new premium NC's. I haven't had a cuban yet, but I assume most people would rather smoke an at LEAST 3 year old cuban over a new NC any day of the week. Great thread.


I know bro, I was just typing it out in case I missed something. I wrote that quite a few years ago 

The same can be applied with N/Cs as most cigars stand to benefit from aging.

~M


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## audio1der (Mar 8, 2006)

This is a fantastic thread!
Buying boxes 2 at a time may not be practical for all of us, but it is a good idea. 45 boxes a year would be a life decision equivalnet to getting married for me- mostly because it would be 1 or the other.

Single guys- don't get married, and some of the previous posts could still apply to you!


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## n2advnture (Aug 9, 2004)

audio1der said:


> This is a fantastic thread!
> Buying boxes 2 at a time may not be practical for all of us, but it is a good idea. 45 boxes a year would be a life decision equivalnet to getting married for me- mostly because it would be 1 or the other.
> 
> Single guys- don't get married, and some of the previous posts could still apply to you!


 That was just based on 1/day smoking, you can alter the "formula" to fit your needs...but everyone comes around at some point! ROFLMAO!

~M


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## landhoney (May 17, 2008)

n2advnture said:


> That was just based on 1/day smoking, you can alter the "formula" to fit your needs...but everyone comes around at some point! ROFLMAO!
> ~M


This is what I'm afraid of, my plan now is based on two per week, and splitting every box bought in half(or buying two boxes, but not likely at present) with half for this year and half for aging. This will continue for at least 3-5 years and then the aged stock can begin to be sampled. I will continue to split the boxes up after that, but because the aged smokes are 'in play' I should have more to age from new purchases which will be smoked less and less. Make sense? Good plan?

This is a great thread BTW, and exactly what I was looking for. I have a nice size wine cellar at present, and along with some very fine wines, a bottle of 1910 Sercial Madeira that I am waiting to open till 2010 to make it a full century old. So the answer is hopefully 'yes' to whether I've got the constitution to stay away from the aging sticks. 

Any updates from anyone, any new strategies or success stories.


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## bonggoy (Mar 9, 2006)

landhoney said:


> This is what I'm afraid of, my plan now is based on two per week, and splitting every box bought in half(or buying two boxes, but not likely at present) with half for this year and half for aging. This will continue for at least 3-5 years and then the aged stock can begin to be sampled. I will continue to split the boxes up after that, but because the aged smokes are 'in play' I should have more to age from new purchases which will be smoked less and less. Make sense? Good plan?
> 
> This is a great thread BTW, and exactly what I was looking for. I have a nice size wine cellar at present, and along with some very fine wines, a bottle of 1910 Sercial Madeira that I am waiting to open till 2010 to make it a full century old. So the answer is hopefully 'yes' to whether I've got the constitution to stay away from the aging sticks.
> 
> Any updates from anyone, any new strategies or success stories.


No real strategy myself. I started collecting/buying more than I can smoke, a little over two years ago. Easier with all the sales the last few months.


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## Silound (May 22, 2007)

As soon as I have disposable income to start, I have the following plan:

Build a large cabinet humidor with two small windows. Buy an initial selection of cigars totaling about $3000 in value. Preferably some that already have a little age. Looking to hold around 5000 sticks in the cabinet. Adjustable shelves, storage only.

Once a month, buy $500 worth of cigars just to store. It can be pre-aged, fresh, expensive, or several boxes of lower priced. Doesn't matter, it's the dollar value that I'm looking at. Stash these boxes in my cabinet. I'm looking for a total of at least two boxes of each cigar I get, per year. Label the boxes with DOP, vendor, and box info (for inventory).



For me, this isn't a hard plan...I already buy boxes and don't even smoke half of them, so just sticking them in a cabinet without smoking any isn't that bad.


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## chibnkr (May 2, 2007)

The strategy is rather simple: purchase more cigars than you smoke! It has worked for me.


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## landhoney (May 17, 2008)

chibnkr said:


> The strategy is rather simple: purchase more cigars than you smoke! It has worked for me.


Yeah, but I feel without some kind of plan things will get messed up or disorganized. I'm generally not super organized/tidy, but with things like this I like to have a plan and then do it and just relax knowing I don't have to worry. Speaking of worry, my supposedly 300(there aren't nearly 300 in there) count humi is basically full as of today, so I need a new plan.


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## chibnkr (May 2, 2007)

Well, the first step is to purchase a large cabinet humidor that has at least 2x the capacity that you think you will *ever* need (believe me, you *will* fill it up). Then, just start purchasing cigars that you like. It is as simple as that. Be opportunistic - take advantage of "good buys" and "good finds" as you encounter them. This is exactly what I have done over the past 12 or 13 years and I have built-up a modest collection of about 10K cigars. I am kind of anal and keep a spreadsheet of my inventory (it helps me to remember what I have and facilitates cigar selection any given night). Given that I probably only go through three or four boxes per year, I am pretty-much set for the rest of my natural life. Now, I no longer smoke many "fresh" cigars because I have a sufficient inventory to smoke only vintage stuff (smoke less, smoke better as Zino said). But, if you smoke a lot of cigars this is more difficult. In short - don't over-think it.


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## flyinillini75 (Jun 7, 2007)

This is a great thread. I am glad that it has been resurrected. Just jumped off of the slope and started to begin the process of putting some smokes away for some rest. Sounds like I need to buddy up with one lonely smoker or some of the other BOTL posting here.......


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## bonggoy (Mar 9, 2006)

landhoney said:


> Yeah, but I feel without some kind of plan things will get messed up or disorganized. I'm generally not super organized/tidy, but with things like this I like to have a plan and then do it and just relax knowing I don't have to worry. Speaking of worry, my supposedly 300(there aren't nearly 300 in there) count humi is basically full as of today, so I need a new plan.


Heed the jungle's advice, go big. People are saying double the space that you think you will need, I say buy the biggest humidor that your budget will allow. Nothing beats coolers. For under 100 dollars, you will have a humidor that will hold 30 to 40 boxes of cigars.


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## dayplanner (Dec 11, 1997)

Thanks for bringing this thread back, it helps me get valuable information that I may not have come across.


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## Addiction (May 8, 2007)

My strategy is really simple:

1. Flip 90% of your NC stock out.

2. Turn that into a reasonable number of reasonably aged cigars to fill most of your storage.

3. Fill 10% of your storage with current boxes.

4. As I smoke a box I replace it with current boxes that will have a chance to age.

5. I also buy five boxes a year SPECIFICALLY for aging. I intend to not open those boxes for five years, I have reminders on my outlook calender and dates on the boxes. Last years boxes were 07 Emundo Dantes (tho I bought them for last year I made the purchase this year). One of this years boxes will be party Charlottes, have not decided on the second yet.

6. I seal all my aging stuff in vacuum bags so I dont slip up and open them. I just started doing this tomorrow lol.


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## landhoney (May 17, 2008)

Addiction said:


> 6. I seal all my aging stuff in vacuum bags so I dont slip up and open them. I just started doing this tomorrow lol.


I've never heard of this done, are there risks? What are you methods?
I would assume getting the whole box into the right RH zone and then vacuum sealing, but I don't like to assume.

BTW, happy to dig up an old thread, aging is something that interests me a great deal, and I don't mind some searching. I may ask seemingly dumb questions, but most of the time I've at least done a little searching(except for the above question, but no one has mentioned it before in this thread I think).


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## Da Klugs (Jan 8, 2005)

*Re: Building a personal supply of aged Cubans -- a strategic inquiry.*

1. Find something you like.
2. Plan ahead and buy more of it.

Repeat steps 1 and 2 as economics and storage capacity allows.

Now finding something you like is somewhat of a crapshoot given the purpose of the intent of this thread is to "plan for" smoking aged cigars. Brings to light the most difficult question.. is what you like fresh going to be liked better with age? Or, will cigars that start out life not very good prove to be the ones that shine with age? Is the past performance of a cigar an accurate predictor of how fresh ones will behave over time?

There are a myriad of threads about aging. Many focus on temperature and humidity. Sometimes there is a discussion on packaging types, which to me is a pretty big issue. Personally, I think cabs age better than dress boxes given the choice... like SLR A's, Party PC's etc, etc, will always buy them in cabs when given a choice. The added bonus of seemingly fewer tight cigars comes along for the ride with this approach. Taking it to another level is varnished cabs. Then again, some of the better cigars I have smoked were "pre aged" elsewhere and were stored in dank dark places with seemingly little care and concern compared to what we go through storage wise so it's not just packaging and storage. How they start out life + time appears to be as big if not the biggest determination of flavor evolution.

I have become a believer in most circumstances regarding the value of diminished airflow/transfer that the varnished box delivers over plain cabs. However, it might be strongly influenced by the nature of the cigars that come in them in the first place. (Typically higher end ones.. Cohibas, Trinidad's, Sir Winnies etc). The crazy sticks that I come across in partial quantities I store in varnished Cohiba cabs if that means anything. Also have come to believe in lower RH both for storage and smoking. 60% storage and 55-60 for smoking. However, there is a price paid with this approach in that higher RH, temperature and airflow makes em more smokable more quickly. Based upon one mans experience I believe that they just don't reach their full potential in terms of nuance and richness with this approach.

When the Cubans really try... IE classic humidors like the 1492, 25th, 1994 how do they choose to store and encase the cigars? Single layers of cigars, separated by cedar sheets (cedar contact with 2 sides of each cigar) inside of varnished boxes. I've been thinking about varnishing some QDO corona boxes. 

Over time, I find myself worrying less about picking winners and concentrate more on appreciating the ongoing evolution of my cigars. A caveat here is that I have the ability to buy "proven winners" in the aged cigar market to integrate into what I smoke today so probably not a fair comparison. Time changes them and us and experiencing the dual combination is one of the things that makes this hobby so interesting.

Leads to an interesting question. If you are buying wide and deep over time with the full understanding that there will be winners and losers in terms of what gets great vs not.... from a pure economic standpoint there has to be a break even point where it's cheaper to just buy vintage winners. This of course eliminates the joys of collecting, caring and coveting, and most importantly directly experiencing the evolution of your cigars, from the experience.

The blended approach seems best. Layaway things you can. Find fresh things you like... I think fresh belongs in anyones rotation particularly today. Find matured cigars that you like. Things like 2-3 year old PLPC's are just so sparkly good that you would hate to miss this experience by not having a supply to smoke while you are waiting for the 10 year bloom of caramel. Couple this with some ability to buy and smoke proven vintage winners along the way and you have a nice composite who's components can be adjusted to suit the needs of any smoker.

Or

Just don't worry about it too much, smoke what ya got. A pretty high percentage of folks end up selling all their cigars and moving on to pipes anyway. :r


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## borndead1 (Oct 21, 2006)

*Re: Building a personal supply of aged Cubans -- a strategic inquiry.*



Da Klugs said:


> Just don't worry about it too much, smoke what ya got. A pretty high percentage of folks end up selling all their cigars and moving on to pipes anyway. :r


Any chance of you doing that?


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## landhoney (May 17, 2008)

*Re: Building a personal supply of aged Cubans -- a strategic inquiry.*



Da Klugs said:


> This of course eliminates the joys of collecting, caring and coveting, and most importantly directly experiencing the evolution of your cigars, from the experience.
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Just don't worry about it too much, smoke what ya got. A pretty high percentage of folks end up selling all their cigars and moving on to pipes anyway. :r


1st part - Yes, I enjoy the process, immensly, at least with wine I do and so far with cigars(but part of the reason I age wine is because I can't afford not to ('86 Margaux anyone :r).

2nd part - Really? Amazing.

Thank you for that post Da Klugs, very insightful. I think its great to have a 'philosophy' and perspective like that on something that is based on years of 'research', appreciation, love, dedication, etc. I realize it may just be a cigar, but there is definitely more to it than that when you invest yourself into the 'hobby'(must be a better word, but you know what I mean).


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## cigarflip (Jul 4, 2004)

*Re: Building a personal supply of aged Cubans -- a strategic inquiry.*



Da Klugs said:


> 1. Find something you like.
> 2. Plan ahead and buy more of it.


1. Find something you like.
2. Plan ahead and buy more of it.
3. Find something you like.
4. Plan ahead and buy more of it.
5. Find something you like.
6. Plan ahead and buy more of it.
7. Find something you like.
8. Plan ahead and buy more of it.
9. Find something you like.
10. Plan ahead and buy more of it.
11.Find something you like.
12.Plan ahead and buy more of it.
13.Find something you like.
14.Plan ahead and buy more of it.
15.Find something you like.
16.Plan ahead and buy more of it.
17.Find something you like.
18.Plan ahead and buy more of it.
19.Find something you like.
20.Plan ahead and buy more of it.
21.Find something you like.
22.Plan ahead and buy more of it.
23.Find something you like.
24.Plan ahead and buy more of it.
25.Find something you like.
26.Plan ahead and buy more of it.
27.Find something you like.
28.Plan ahead and buy more of it.
29.Find something you like.
30.Plan ahead and buy more of it.
31.Find something you like.
32.Plan ahead and buy more of it.
33.Find something you like.
34.Plan ahead and buy more of it.
35.Find something you like.
36.Plan ahead and buy more of it.
37.Find something you like.
38.Plan ahead and buy more of it.
39.Find something you like.
40.Plan ahead and buy more of it.
41.Find something you like.
42.Plan ahead and buy more of it.
43.Find something you like.
44.Plan ahead and buy more of it.
45.Find something you like.
46.Plan ahead and buy more of it.
47.Find something you like.
48.Plan ahead and buy more of it.
49.Find something you like.
50.Plan ahead and buy more of it.

How am I doing Dave? :r


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## dvickery (Jan 1, 2000)

dvickery said:


> it really is quite simple...BUY MORE THAN YOU SMOKE.in 5 years you will have a nice stash of good smokes...in ten years...a realllly nice stash.
> 
> derrek


i quote myself from 3 years ago.

doesnt matter if you buy from the internet or retail in havana...doesnt matter if you buy them aged or fresh...it isnt rocket surgery.

it really is quite simple...BUY MORE THAN YOU SMOKE.

thats all i have to say about that
derrek


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## icehog3 (Feb 20, 2005)

dvickery said:


> i quote myself from 3 years ago.
> 
> doesnt matter if you buy from the internet or retail in havana...doesnt matter if you buy them aged or fresh...it isnt rocket surgery.
> 
> ...


Rocket surgery.....I like it, Derrek!! :ss


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## One Lonely Smoker (Jan 21, 2005)

I also want to give Dave some props on that post, you are a thinker. You take commonly available wisdom and blend it with a real personal perspective that never fails to leave me going, "hmmm, I NEVER thought of that before."
I always store my loose singles in old cedar cabs, and in fact, I have tried to eliminate plywood cedar cabs if I can find whole plank cabs. But the item about 'when the cubans REALLY try' was awesome to think about, and while I will never buy vintage, it really does make sense when someone else has already done the research and math for me, to think about the 'proven winner strategy.' I know you came by THAT information at some cost. THX.


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## zamco17 (Mar 24, 2006)

Jsabbi01 said:


> I'm assuming not smoking the cigars plays a major role in long term aging...


:r:r:r


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## Addiction (May 8, 2007)

landhoney said:


> I've never heard of this done, are there risks? What are you methods?
> I would assume getting the whole box into the right RH zone and then vacuum sealing, but I don't like to assume.
> .....


I just sent a PM asking this same question. It seems like all my favorite sources either store them vacuum sealed or vacuum seal them when the ship them to me. Shoot me a PM and I'll copy you on the details when I get em.

But as for assumptions, everything in my humi is at proper RH now, I have to believe that will be true when I seal the boxes. And actually I can't tell you any risks because I don't know any. I can only tell you that there are a number of gorillas I respect and admire greatly and whose collections I would trade my soul for and that whenever I get boxes from them they are vacuum sealed. I can also tell you that MRN suggests that restricting airflow slows aging, but that you get the deepest and best flavors this way. And if those are the sources selling it, I'm buying it.


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## dayplanner (Dec 11, 1997)

Addiction said:


> I can also tell you that MRN suggests that restricting airflow slows aging, but that you get the deepest and best flavors this way. And if those are the sources selling it, I'm buying it.


:tpd: Seems logical to me.


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## TheRealBonger (Sep 7, 2007)

great thread! got me thinking way to hard for a monday morning :ss


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## Blueface (May 28, 2005)

All great advice provided.

From my end, only supply of aged Cubans I have is the family.
Actually, I do have a box 2000 I just received. That is as aged as it gets for me (or better yet, my wallet).


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## cigarflip (Jul 4, 2004)

I found out that the best solution is to have a 90-10 ratio. For every box to smoke and gift, 9 should be for aging. Do this consistently and you'll either be broke or handsomely rewarded.


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## Blueface (May 28, 2005)

cigarflip said:


> I found out that the best solution is to have a 90-10 ratio. For every box to smoke and gift, 9 should be for aging. Do this consistently and you'll either be broke or handsomely rewarded.


or you will be handsomely rewarded by being broke.:r


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## j6ppc (Jun 5, 2006)

chibnkr said:


> The strategy is rather simple: purchase more cigars than you smoke! It has worked for me.


True that Michael.

I typically buy 20 boxes a year (more or less depending on cash flow and "deals").

AutoMagically aged since I don't smoke that many.

There are also a fair number of boxes out there that already have 5+ years on them that will give you a head start as well.

Then again recent years have been pretty dang tasty with just a year or so to settle in (or less).


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