# CA Tobacco Tax Increase has taken effect!



## TankSD13 (Jun 13, 2017)

I was not up to speed on the latest Tobacco Tax increase and was blindsided when I went to purchase a stick and my local B&M marked $11.27 and the the total at the register came to nearly $18! This sort of takes all the fun out of walking circles around the humidor looking at all the great selection, knowing you won't buy any with that type of tax theft. I am going to be getting very familiar with online cigar shopping, that's for sure!


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## Fusion (Apr 5, 2017)

If the store/lounge has it in stock before 1 July they should not be charging at the new tax rate, my local lounge said it would be a few more weeks before he will charge it.


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## ebnash (Mar 5, 2017)

Yes, quite annoying. My local lounge built additional Humidor storage space last year and have been loading up inventory and will not impose the increases on us until they use up that inventory. Not sure logistically how they can do this but that is what they advertising. If nothing else, it may protect them while many other shops most likely go out of business. Just a sad unfortunate truth. 

Your online purchases most likely won't be safe for long since they are working to impose tax collection for online sales regardless of shipping origin. Amazon already charges tax on all sales regardless of where they ship from. I assume they are trying to get ahead of the imminent changes coming.


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## MidwestToker (Sep 14, 2016)

Sin taxes are a terrible idea, but legislators and voters continue to pass them because, on the surface, they sound like a great idea. Tax tobacco! It's terrible for you and you shouldn't be doing it in the first place!

Last year, Kansas increased their sin taxes in order to fill a massive budget shortfall. Again, the thought process was that it's better to tax a bad habit than small business income. On paper that sounds like a good idea, but it wasn't nearly enough to fill the shortfall and now they've increased income taxes anyway.

Sales taxes that target things like tobacco and alcohol are regressive and will place more of a burden on low-income people (who are more likely to drink and smoke cigarettes for a number of societal reasons). Not only that, by taxing something that is thought of as bad, you're not really discouraging it...in fact, governments would only benefit from higher sales.

Meanwhile, those of us who enjoy premium cigars are caught up in all of this mess because the general population doesn't see a distinction between Edgefield Menthols and an Opus X.


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## TankSD13 (Jun 13, 2017)

I didn't get a chance to talk with the shop owner about differentiating the current stock with the new stock but that will be something I will ask about. The B&M I went to is a local smoke shop/outlet that has two locations in the area with some well stocked humidors. I feel bad for both of the owners as the road ahead just got a lot bumpier.


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## Fusion (Apr 5, 2017)

MidwestToker said:


> Sin taxes are a terrible idea, but legislators and voters continue to pass them because, on the surface, they sound like a great idea. Tax tobacco! It's terrible for you and you shouldn't be doing it in the first place!
> 
> Last year, Kansas increased their sin taxes in order to fill a massive budget shortfall. Again, the thought process was that it's better to tax a bad habit than small business income. On paper that sounds like a good idea, but it wasn't nearly enough to fill the shortfall and now they've increased income taxes anyway.
> 
> ...


Someone, cant remember who(a member from California) has already posted here that Small Batch Cigars had sent him a Email stating they will be charging the new tax to Californian buyers, its started already.


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## Thig (May 10, 2017)

MidwestToker said:


> Sin taxes are a terrible idea, but legislators and voters continue to pass them because, on the surface, they sound like a great idea. Tax tobacco! It's terrible for you and you shouldn't be doing it in the first place!
> .


Sin taxes are a bad idea but the main reason they pass is that the majority of the people are not affected and don't pay it. The 85‰ of the people that don't smoke or use tobacco would rather you pay the tax. Same goes for alcohol, the cost of a bottle of bourbon is around 50 percent tax.


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## csk415 (Sep 6, 2016)

Damn. I feel for the ones living in cali. If my only source for a smoke was my local shop I would have to quit. Guess that's the goal. Whats next? Confiscate all cigars shipped into the state and force you to pay the tax.


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## SeanTheEvans (Dec 13, 2013)

This is what happens when other people know how you should be living better than you do


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## Thig (May 10, 2017)

Follow the money, them wanting you to be healthier is just cover for them wanting you to pay most of the taxes.


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## Bruced (May 20, 2017)

California need money to fund my neighbors CHiP's pension, he get 92% of his highest pay monthly for life. California's laws, pensions for public employees, home prices, taxes, etc. are out of control.


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## Steve C. (Jun 16, 2015)

I've got enough stash to last at least 2-3 years. If this tax makes it to online cigars too, I won't be buying any more. In addition to the federal taxes, we here in northern mexico are being taxed out of our gourds by the state and local governments, and they are diligently looking for more, more, and more ways to tax, surcharge, licenses and fee. Many of these taxes increase automatically every year. As has been said, unionized govt employees' pensions are the cause of a huge portion of the deficit, as well as the High Speed Rail and the illegal immigrant aiding and abetting being committed by the elected politicians and their cohorts.


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## Cigary (Oct 19, 2007)

Kalifornia is a joke...one of the reasons I moved away from there was because of their ridiculous laws...I keep my primary home in Atlanta and use my condo in San Diego a few months out of the year and tobacco there is out of hand. I bring a few hundred cigars with me when I go there...hoping to sell it next year and call it a life and buy a cabin back here somewhere with a big porch ....cigar and pipes and Drambuie. 😁


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## UBC03 (Nov 18, 2015)

I live in West Virginia..taxes are extremely low here. Of course most of the population is dirt floor poor. If I work here it's 8$ an hour less than going to the Pa. side in Pittsburgh. But when you work there they tax the hell outta ya, but it's still worth it in your net pay. 

As far as pensioners.. Living in the rust belt I've seen plenty of my friends' parents lose their pension when the companies filled bankruptcy. So kudos to these guys with good, guaranteed pensions. Beats the hell outta workin til you die and losing everything you have. Maybe it's just me but I like the thought of retirees living comfortably after working their entire life. 

Our out of check deductions went up because the average lifespan of a carpenter has raised and pensioners are living longer thanks to safer workplaces. We as working members need to pitch in to make sure the retirees checks keep coming without a drop in pay. That's a "tax" I'm happy to pay to assure my retired friends and neighbors aren't struggling.


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## Westside Threat (Oct 25, 2016)

B&M's have always been expensive. Now they are ridiculously expensive. I can count on two hands how many cigars I have bought at a B&M in my lifetime and fairly certain I won't ever purchase from one again. Besides, 99% of my cigar purchases I don't pay tax on since they are bought over seas. 

Weather is nice in California, unless you live in an apartment with no balcony, no need to go to the B&M to smoke. I can't see most of the B&M's around me staying in business, but maybe I'm wrong. Perhaps there is a dedicated enough group to keep them a float.


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## Steve C. (Jun 16, 2015)

Cigary said:


> Kalifornia is a joke...one of the reasons I moved away from there was because of their ridiculous laws...I keep my primary home in Atlanta and use my condo in San Diego a few months out of the year and tobacco there is out of hand. I bring a few hundred cigars with me when I go there...hoping to sell it next year and call it a life and buy a cabin back here somewhere with a big porch ....cigar and pipes and Drambuie. &#128513;


My dream would be a nice home in another state, on enough acreage that I could shoot my guns from my porch without endangering anyone, or breaking any laws. Along with plenty of cigars of course.


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## Steve C. (Jun 16, 2015)

Yep, I would think that b&m's in Kalexico definitely just made the endangered species list.


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## Steve C. (Jun 16, 2015)

UBC03 said:


> I live in West Virginia..taxes are extremely low here. Of course most of the population is dirt floor poor. If I work here it's 8$ an hour less than going to the Pa. side in Pittsburgh. But when you work there they tax the hell outta ya, but it's still worth it in your net pay.
> 
> As far as pensioners.. Living in the rust belt I've seen plenty of my friends' parents lose their pension when the companies filled bankruptcy. So kudos to these guys with good, guaranteed pensions. Beats the hell outta workin til you die and losing everything you have. Maybe it's just me but I like the thought of retirees living comfortably after working their entire life.
> 
> ...


I may make some enemies here, but, other than social security, I never thought the govt had any business in the pension business. It was just a vote pandering sellout to the unions. I provided my own pension by working long, hard, and smart, and making investments out of my saved income. Mine isn't coming out of anyone else's pocket or adding to the state or local deficit. That's the difference. I don't begrudge anyone what they made for themselves.


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## UBC03 (Nov 18, 2015)

Steve C. said:


> I may make some enemies here, but, other than social security, I never thought the govt had any business in the pension business. It was just a vote pandering sellout to the unions. I provided my own pension by working long, hard, and smart, and making investments out of my saved income. Mine isn't coming out of anyone else's pocket or adding to the state or local deficit. That's the difference. I don't begrudge anyone what they made for themselves.


A portion of my check goes toward my pension. I'll assume gov't employees do the same as well. The international invests our pension in the market. The state I'm sure invests or borrows against the state employees pension fund. I'm betting that your state mishandled the funds, and being a GUARANTEED pension, the had to cover their @ss and raised taxes to cover it.

As a side note if I don't work there's no money going into my pension. So I also have to work hard, and work long hours to be able to retire and be comfortable in doing so.

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## Fusion (Apr 5, 2017)

Westside Threat said:


> B&M's have always been expensive. Now they are ridiculously expensive. I can count on two hands how many cigars I have bought at a B&M in my lifetime and fairly certain I won't ever purchase from one again. Besides, 99% of my cigar purchases I don't pay tax on since they are bought over seas.
> 
> Weather is nice in California, unless you live in an apartment with no balcony, no need to go to the B&M to smoke. I can't see most of the B&M's around me staying in business, but maybe I'm wrong. Perhaps there is a dedicated enough group to keep them a float.


I will still frequent my local B&M or in my case a Lounge, gets me out of the house and talking to humans instead of the dog when the wife is at work, may have to stick with the Curly Heads if the prices get any higher though.


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## Steve C. (Jun 16, 2015)

UBC03 said:


> A portion of my check goes toward my pension. I'll assume gov't employees do the same as well. The international invests our pension in the market. The state I'm sure invests or borrows against the state employees pension fund. I'm betting that your state mishandled the funds, and being a GUARANTEED pension, the had to cover their @ss and raised taxes to cover it.
> 
> As a side note if I don't work there's no money going into my pension. So I also have to work hard, and work long hours to be able to retire and be comfortable in doing so.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G925V using Tapatalk


I love craftsmen and the industry. Spent my life in construction, involved in the trade unions both as an employee, and then as a contractor. My experience in both positions was negative.

As a roofer and roofing contractor, I didn't get paid for holidays, bad weather days, or days when there simply were no jobs to do. Also, being largely a piecework trade, it only paid equal to what you produced, or literally earned.
No work? No pay. Slow producer? Small check. Non-producer? Can't stay, get that govt job. You learned to manage your money or went and stayed broke.

Govt pensions are a different story. People pay in a pittance out of their own checks, just so they can say they "earned " it. I know of a retired IRS agent who said he drew out all he ever paid in in about six months. The rest is gravy, and the free insurance continues. They don't have to wait until age 67 to draw. It can be drawn after anywhere from 10 to 30 years of being on the payroll, regardless of age. Many draw for more years than they ever "worked" in the first place.


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## MidwestToker (Sep 14, 2016)

Steve C. said:


> I may make some enemies here, but, other than social security, I never thought the govt had any business in the pension business. It was just a vote pandering sellout to the unions. I provided my own pension by working long, hard, and smart, and making investments out of my saved income. Mine isn't coming out of anyone else's pocket or adding to the state or local deficit. That's the difference. I don't begrudge anyone what they made for themselves.


I think you have a strong misunderstanding of how public pension systems work. Sure, some state pension funds have been mismanaged. That's not the fault of the front line workers, but because politicians have mismanaged the entire government. It's not the pension system that's broken, it's everything else. Pension systems, through the use of longterm investment, should be self-sustainable and MANY are.

When you consider how many public pension systems there are (there are not only state, but many local governments have their own systems with separate accounts for regular employees, firefighters and police officers), on the whole, public pension systems are very successful. And the ability for someone ti leach off of them is limited if not impossible. You have to put in the time to get your share.

There's also the importance of forcing your employees to save money. The economic impact of people not saving money is catastrophic. That's wonderful that you're smart enough to do it on your own, but most people have a tough time doing that. Whether they don't have the business sense or they just can't afford it. This leads to a bunch of 60 year olds who have no pension and no health care and must live off of social security and medicare/medicaid for the rest of their lives


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## UBC03 (Nov 18, 2015)

Steve C. said:


> I love craftsmen and the industry. Spent my life in construction, involved in the trade unions both as an employee, and then as a contractor. My experience in both positions was negative.
> 
> As a roofer and roofing contractor, I didn't get paid for holidays, bad weather days, or days when there simply were no jobs to do. Also, being largely a piecework trade, it only paid equal to what you produced, or literally earned.
> No work? No pay. Slow producer? Small check. Non-producer? Can't stay, get that govt job. You learned to manage your money or went and stayed broke.
> ...


I'm with ya in the feast or famine theory..

I've been doing scaffold for years. Winter I'll try to find a drywall job inside. But if not I'll take a layoff till spring. Arthritis in my hands makes it difficult to climb in extreme cold. Plus I'm just too old for that $hit...

As for government pensions. I wish I had one. I don't fault anyone for taking what is offered them. I remember my grandfather bitchin about postal workers pensions 30 years ago. I'm sure someone will run across this thread in 40 years, drag it out, dust it off and bitch about their taxes or the flying car inspectors' pensions..
It'll probably be some noob arguing pro or con with a couple guys have been been dead for ten years.lol

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## SeanTheEvans (Dec 13, 2013)

Re: Pensions

I think the gripe is that if your company mishandles things or goes bankrupt, you're SOOO

But if you work for the gov't, and THEY mishandle things - then the general public is taxed and you still get your benies

That's why it might not seem fair - particularly when gov't jobs come with other perks (debt forgiveness, etc) and in many places (my city) it often seems that they really aren't earning their keep. Try to ask any government worker a question and see what reaction you get - from postal workers (in the office, at their JOB!), to police officers. Many have cushy jobs they can sit on with little education, knowing they make decent money and have security - while those who deal with these workers on a regular basis often get annoyed at how little service they are receiving for their taxes.

Not all gov't workers are bad - but yeah, it's a pretty sweet gig, mostly filled by "insiders" and those who know people. It's bothersome when "civil service" comes off more like leeching.


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## Bruced (May 20, 2017)

So to the good people who still live in the Golden State how is California going to deal with Cigars from a fair, I.E. Places like CI or the other online retailers. I am sure CI, and the other has no intention of sharing their mailing list with MOONBEAM.


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