# Cuban Possession in US



## asmartbull (Aug 16, 2009)

Folks
Today I was told by a local law enforcement officer that it was no longer illegal to possess Cuban tobacco in the US. He then went on to say it is still illegal to bring it in, but do to a lapse in a section of the embargo agreement, it is not illegal to possess. I will be talking to a buddy in ATF, to see if he can clarify. Has anyone heard of this..........enjoy the weekend


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## dyieldin (Sep 27, 2009)

I do not want to rain on the parade but I think we all would have heard of this if the law had been changed.


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## d_day (Aug 24, 2008)

I have not heard anything like that, but somehow I doubt he is correct. Local law enforcement officials rarely know anything beyond what they deal with on a daily basis. Traffic cops will know a good portion of the vehicle code and little else, beat cops the same with penal code and a little vehicle code. Other codes are generally enforced by other officials. Local cops do not enforce federal law, and as such are unlikely to know any of it. Of course, I'm not saying he's not telling the truth, only that I have my doubts.


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## Snake Hips (May 30, 2008)

Nothing changed at all - that's always been true. It's never been illegal to possess Cuban goods. The wording of the law itself is easily available if one wants to see.


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## CraigJS (Dec 23, 2009)

Do a Google search for, Buying cuban goods, trading with the enemy, importation of cuban goods, etc. I'm sure you'll find the answer..
Besides we don't bring them in, the post office does.:rofl:


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## tpharkman (Feb 20, 2010)

If you are worried about any of your possibly illegal actions then please just come to Iowa and forget about the law. Yes we do have laws here but the judges (heavens knows how they get elected) will not send you to jail for anything.

Yes indeed, Iowa...home of the brave and at one time free and now the ultimately un-prosecutable.

Back on topic--I agree with the above poster that local law enforcement have limited knowledge of federal policy (thank goodness).


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## Cigary (Oct 19, 2007)

Wish it were all true as I wouldnt have to have my illegal cuban immigrant roll my cigars for me anymore.


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## Perfecto Dave (Nov 24, 2009)

> we don't bring them in, the post office does


The very governing body that has banned them?

Despicable...........



> illegal cuban immigrant


New laws here...mine had to leave. Maybe I can lease yours for short!


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## zitro_joe (Oct 6, 2008)

A fellow BOTL, who is a Customs Agent says: what?


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## zitro_joe (Oct 6, 2008)

zitro_joe said:


> A fellow BOTL, who is a Customs Agent says: what?


second text just came in.
he says The Office of Foreign Assets Control prohibits the importation - that's his part of the equation. He said beyond that he does not have jurisdiction so he has never looked into it.


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## Scott W. (Jul 10, 2008)

My Aunt's brother works for the Dept. Of Homeland Security and he told me it is definitely illegal to possess in the US any Cuban item


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## SmoknTaz (Jun 18, 2008)

scottw said:


> My Aunt's brother works for the Dept. Of Homeland Security and he told me it is definitely illegal to possess in the US any Cuban item


What if you have a Cuban wife?


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## TonyBrooklyn (Jan 28, 2010)

What you mean cuban cigars are illegal?:yield:
All joking aside here is great reading on the subject.:usa2:

Cuban Cigars - The Law

Keep in mind it was written in 1995


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## SmoknTaz (Jun 18, 2008)

TonyBrooklyn said:


> What you mean cuban cigars are illegal?:yield:
> All joking aside here is great reading on the subject.:usa2:
> 
> Cuban Cigars - The Law
> ...


Thanks Tony :tu


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## SmoknTaz (Jun 18, 2008)

_"There is a total ban on the importation into the United States of Cuban-origin cigars and other Cuban-origin tobacco products. This prohibition extends to such products acquired in Cuba, irrespective of whether a traveler is licensed by Office of Foreign Asset Controls (OFAC) to engage in Cuba travel-related transactions, and to such products acquired in third countries by any U.S. Traveler, . . ."_

READ MORE


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## KetherInMalkuth (Dec 17, 2009)

Perhaps I'm splitting hairs here, but in everything I read on the page Tony posted, the government wording specifically addressed transportation of and transactions of cuban products, there wasn't a single mention in the government wording about "possession", that seems like a glaring omission considering any drug law, or alcohol control law, etc always specifically address "possession" as a crime, so that strikes me as particularly odd in this case.


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## JGD (Mar 2, 2009)

KetherInMalkuth said:


> Perhaps I'm splitting hairs here, but in everything I read on the page Tony posted, the government wording specifically addressed transportation of and transactions of cuban products, there wasn't a single mention in the government wording about "possession", that seems like a glaring omission considering any drug law, or alcohol control law, etc always specifically address "possession" as a crime, so that strikes me as particularly odd in this case.


But the government would likely argue that in order to be in possession, the individual would have to have first completed a transaction to acquire the product. Since in drug cases a transaction is not limited to purchasing, but can also be trading or gifting, the same would go with Cuban products. Also, how would you not transport it if it was in your possession?

That's what I would argue at least.


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## Suzza (Mar 18, 2010)

SmoknTaz said:


> What if you have a Cuban wife?


Oh no you didn't!


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## mhartnett (Dec 3, 2009)

I just don't think the government cares much what you do with Cuban things once they're in the country. The money isn't going to Cuba anymore.


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## tpharkman (Feb 20, 2010)

When they use verbage such as "fine up to $50,000 per violation" and "imprisonment up to 10 years" who sets or determines when those penalties are imposed? Is it just ambiguous or what somebody feels like imposing on any particular day or are their guidelines set in place to follow? Does one box get you a $1000 fine or do you get the full fine of $50,000 imposed? When does the threat of prison time come into play?

Any opinions?


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## Snake Hips (May 30, 2008)

tpharkman said:


> When they use verbage such as "fine up to $50,000 per violation" and "imprisonment up to 10 years" who sets or determines when those penalties are imposed? Is it just ambiguous or what somebody feels like imposing on any particular day or are their guidelines set in place to follow? Does one box get you a $1000 fine or do you get the full fine of $50,000 imposed? When does the threat of prison time come into play?
> 
> Any opinions?


According to the Treasury Department, it depends on the scale of the infraction. For the half-dozen people who get caught every half-decade, the fines usually stay in the very low thousands with prison time never mentioned, and those people were having hoards of stuff shipped in over periods of years. People who don't do that and just buy a few boxes here and there just get a letter to fax to their vendor for replacements. 90% of people penalized for violating embargoes were doing something with Iran, and the ones being penalized for doing things with Cuba are mostly corporate and have nothing to do with importing anything. The corporate violations are the ones that get the $50,000 fines.


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## ghe-cl (Apr 9, 2005)

If you check with the State Department, I believe you will find that not only is importation into the U.S. and possession in the U.S. of Cuban cigars (in addition to other non-educational Cuban items) illegal, it is also technically illegal for a U.S. citizen to purchase Cuban goods in third countries. To the best of my knowledge, I don't believe anyone has ever been prosecuted for that, but I believe it remains part of the embargo.


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## BigKev77 (Feb 16, 2008)

ghe said:


> it is also technically illegal for a U.S. citizen to purchase Cuban goods in third countries.


I have never heard of that. I have some friends in Iraq who buy them when they can find some that are legit. I would think if that were the case they would make sure our service men weren't buying them. There are some pretty dumb laws though, so who knows.


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## SmokinJoe (Apr 7, 2007)

bigkev77 said:


> I have never heard of that. I have some friends in Iraq who buy them when they can find some that are legit. I would think if that were the case they would make sure our service men weren't buying them. There are some pretty dumb laws though, so who knows.


Yeah, pretty hard to enforce, but true. "United States citizens cannot legally acquire or consume Cuban cigars, even while traveling abroad."

Interesting reading...


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## TonyBrooklyn (Jan 28, 2010)

SmoknTaz said:


> Thanks Tony :tu


Your welcome Bro!:bump2:


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## TonyBrooklyn (Jan 28, 2010)

KetherInMalkuth said:


> Perhaps I'm splitting hairs here, but in everything I read on the page Tony posted, the government wording specifically addressed transportation of and transactions of cuban products, there wasn't a single mention in the government wording about "possession", that seems like a glaring omission considering any drug law, or alcohol control law, etc always specifically address "possession" as a crime, so that strikes me as particularly odd in this case.


Yes that is exactly what i got out of the article there is a rather large Grey area. But i guess in order for one to be in possion of Cuban products one has already broken the law sort of a catch 22. But realistically they might be gifted. If an American citizen did not spend U.S dollars for said Cuban product. Then technically he is not trading with the enemy. So in fact has he really broken the law? :rain: :bump2:


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## zitro_joe (Oct 6, 2008)

bigkev77 said:


> I have never heard of that. I have some friends in Iraq who buy them when they can find some that are legit. I would think if that were the case they would make sure our service men weren't buying them. There are some pretty dumb laws though, so who knows.


They buy the cubans from from the other countries exchanges. A lot brag about it so I inform them that the law states we cant buy them, no matter where we are located.


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## CraigJS (Dec 23, 2009)

Oh well I'm almost 59 so if they take me, I'll be as big a burden on them as they've been on me...

Molon Labe..


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## BigKev77 (Feb 16, 2008)

craigjs said:


> oh well i'm almost 59 so if they take me, i'll be as big a burden on them as they've been on me...
> 
> Molon labe..


great post!


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## Scott W. (Jul 10, 2008)

SmoknTaz said:


> What if you have a Cuban wife?


I think that's OK so long as you didn't purchase her online.


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## TonyBrooklyn (Jan 28, 2010)

CraigJS said:


> Oh well I'm almost 59 so if they take me, I'll be as big a burden on them as they've been on me...
> 
> Molon Labe..


Great point i say the same thing all the time. :blabla:
I am sneaking up on 51 no one is going to deny me my pleasures of life. :martini: :couch2:
How much longer we got anyways.


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## ongreystreet (Nov 3, 2008)

I am assuming that possession isn't illegal, but how you got it is. I am also assuming Cuban products pre embargo aren't illegal to possess.

What about a more likely situation. 20 yr old kid is given beer, but doesn't drink it, by someone over 21.

Is it illegal for a 20 year old kid to have beer if he doesn't buy it or drink it? I dunno. I am sure it's illegal to give alcohol to a minor/under 21.


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## BigKev77 (Feb 16, 2008)

scottw said:


> I think that's OK so long as you didn't purchase her online.


Hey, what's that website!! Oh yeah, no discussing sources.


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## KetherInMalkuth (Dec 17, 2009)

ongreystreet said:


> I am assuming that possession isn't illegal, but how you got it is. I am also assuming Cuban products pre embargo aren't illegal to possess.
> 
> What about a more likely situation. 20 yr old kid is given beer, but doesn't drink it, by someone over 21.
> 
> *Is it illegal for a 20 year old kid to have beer if he doesn't buy it or drink it?* I dunno. I am sure it's illegal to give alcohol to a minor/under 21.


Albeit every state has thier own specific laws, every state I've ever lived in makes is specifically illegal to possess alcohol underage, some also have separate laws for consumption.


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## Shaz (Oct 10, 2008)

I've been told a couple of times on these forums from my US BOTLs that not only is it illigal for US citizens to posess anything of Cuban origin. It's illigal to posess, use, consume Cuban products, even when not in the US. 
So, if true, you're breaking US law when lighting up a CC in Canada.


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## Herf N Turf (Dec 31, 2008)

Shaz said:


> I've been told a couple of times on these forums from my US BOTLs that not only is it illigal for US citizens to posess anything of Cuban origin. It's illigal to posess, use, consume Cuban products, even when not in the US.
> So, if true, you're breaking US law when lighting up a CC in Canada.


And, they've told you right!


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## iMarc (Feb 24, 2010)

scottw said:


> > Originally Posted by *SmoknTaz*
> > _What if you have a Cuban wife? _
> 
> 
> I think that's OK so long as you didn't purchase her online.


Just make sure to check for beetles.


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## JGD (Mar 2, 2009)

KetherInMalkuth said:


> Albeit every state has thier own specific laws, every state I've ever lived in makes is specifically illegal to possess alcohol underage, some also have separate laws for consumption.


This is true. For example, in MD and MA it's illegal to posess alcohol if your under 21. In NY it's not.


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## Tarks (Mar 3, 2009)

Shaz said:


> I've been told a couple of times on these forums from my US BOTLs that not only is it illigal for US citizens to posess anything of Cuban origin. It's illigal to posess, use, consume Cuban products, even when not in the US.
> So, if true, you're breaking US law when lighting up a CC in Canada.


So Kaz. Let's flip it here for minute. Is it illegal for a Canadian to possess cc's while visiting the USA? If so, I broke the law this weekend! LMAO.


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## JGD (Mar 2, 2009)

Tarks said:


> So Kaz. Let's flip it here for minute. Is it illegal for a Canadian to possess cc's while visiting the USA? If so, I broke the law this weekend! LMAO.


Yes. You were not allowed to bring them into the country. You're a bad man, Charlie Brown.


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## Shaz (Oct 10, 2008)

iMarc said:


> Just make sure to check for beetles.


 ound:
I thought you're supposed to be checking for ticks.


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## Shaz (Oct 10, 2008)

Tarks said:


> So Kaz. Let's flip it here for minute. Is it illegal for a Canadian to possess cc's while visiting the USA? If so, I broke the law this weekend! LMAO.


Haha! Why doesn't this surprise me.
Life's too boring if you always play by the rules.


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## Snake Hips (May 30, 2008)

It is NOT illegal to possess Cuban goods. It is NOT illegal to use Cuban goods. It is NOT illegal to consume Cuban goods. Read the law. It IS illegal to buy them or accept them, anywhere in the world, if one is a U.S. citizen. It IS illegal to bring Cuban goods into the U.S. as a non-citizen, even if you are en route to your own country. Pre-embargo cigars ARE legal; Corona Cigars has a humidor full of them for sale. But possession, use, consumption, etc., is NOT illegal, by the letter of the law. They cannot prosecute you for possession; they can prosecute you if they can prove how you got the product. When they take your hidden cigars at the airport, it's because you were trying to bring them in, not because you were in possession of them. There is of course the semantic argument that in order to possess them you probably had to either buy them or accept them as a gift, but I'm going by the literal letter of the embargo law. By the literal wording, possession is in no way illegal, nor is use or consumption.

As you can guess, I'm more literal than practical!


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## SmoknTaz (Jun 18, 2008)

scottw said:


> I think that's OK so long as you didn't purchase her online.





iMarc said:


> Just make sure to check for beetles.





Shaz said:


> ound:
> I thought you're supposed to be checking for ticks.


What about RH? I hear higher the better! :evil:


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## JGD (Mar 2, 2009)

Snake Hips said:


> As you can guess, I'm more literal than practical!


Unfortunatly, the Feds are likely to view it in aore practical way than in the literal sence. I've seen how the literal wording of the law has been extended to the practical view of the law numerous times while working in the criminal court system this summer.


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## Frinkiac7 (Dec 12, 2008)

The Treasury Dept. actually prohibits use or possession of CCs by U.S. citizens, even when they are abroad. (LOL). Good luck enforcing that, gang. 

Light 'em up, I say, boys. Odds are the judge and the prosecutor who would be working your case in a mythical situation where you'd get caught will go home and spark up a CC themselves.


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## Pugsley (Jul 12, 2009)

Frinkiac7 said:


> Light 'em up, I say, boys. Odds are the judge and the prosecutor who would be working your case in a mythical situation where you'd get caught will go home and spark up a CC themselves.


I don't know about other judges but the cigar smokers in the court I work at smoke Cubans almost exclusively. One judge who recently retired used to have his mailed to the court and would always give me a few when he got a shipment in. I sure do miss him.


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## tpharkman (Feb 20, 2010)

I don't know if one would be breaking the law while enjoying CCs in Canada but I know for sure they would be breaking the bank.


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## TonyBrooklyn (Jan 28, 2010)

Hey they had a video of Bill Clinton when he was still president buying a Monticristo Cuban Cigar.mg:


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## Amlique (Sep 9, 2009)

I'm sure the posession loophole was created so as to make a criminal of the president at the time the embargo was created. Ms Monroe's stud had a taste for Upman, and purchased how many 1000's of cigars before his embargo went into effect?


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## Snake Hips (May 30, 2008)

Amlique said:


> I'm sure the posession loophole was created so as to make a criminal of the president at the time the embargo was created. Ms Monroe's stud had a taste for Upman, and purchased how many 1000's of cigars before his embargo went into effect?


That would be redundant though; Kennedy bought 1,200 H. Upmann "Petite Upmanns" the day before he signed the embargo law, true, but the law states all products produced/acquired before the signing of the embargo were exempt.


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## Amlique (Sep 9, 2009)

Snake Hips said:


> That would be redundant though; Kennedy bought 1,200 H. Upmann "Petite Upmanns" the day before he signed the embargo law, true, but the law states all products produced/acquired before the signing of the embargo were exempt.


I was talking about the possession and usage. He would certainly have used at least one or two of the cigars after the embargo, no matter when he purchased them.


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## TonyBrooklyn (Jan 28, 2010)

Hey stuff like this is legal and its only $2,800 a box. 
Pre Embargo
Contact Nick he will hook you up.eace:


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## pointbreak (Feb 8, 2010)

SmoknTaz said:


> What about RH? I hear higher the better! :evil:


 I thought it depended on the ring gauge lol Back to topic..


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## Snake Hips (May 30, 2008)

Amlique said:


> I was talking about the possession and usage. He would certainly have used at least one or two of the cigars after the embargo, no matter when he purchased them.


I know you were - all products produced/acquired before the signing of the embargo are exempt. Kennedy bought the cigars the day before he signed the embargo. Therefore, they were exempt anyway.

Unless I'm completely misunderstanding what you mean by "I'm sure the posession loophole was created so as to make a criminal of the president at the time the embargo was created."


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## JustOneMoreStick (Sep 21, 2009)

check out the state department website to confirm but even smoking a CC outside the states is illegal but I have yet to hear anyone going after violators.


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