# New Hampshire Cigar Buyers - Taxes Coming?!



## maduromojo-cl (Dec 15, 2007)

I'm a Massachusetts resident and, admittedly, slip over the border to buy my sticks. Well, I just read some disturbing news in the March 18th edition of Cigar Insider. Even though the article was entitled "New Hampshire Could Treat Little Cigars as Cigarettes" it mentioned two disturbing bills. The main bill (HB 1309) discussed in the article is about re-defining what is already *federally defined *as "little cigars" (which are _tobacco-wrapped _, not paper wrapped as cigarettes are, products weighing three pounds per thousand units) as cigarettes. Rep. Susan Almy (D-Graf), a sponsor of the bill states, "These 'little cigars'-*most of which are really cigarettes*-are tax evasion mechanisms which also evade fire-safe rules [rules adopted requiring cigarettes be self-extinguishing]." Basically, she's saying people are buying these to inhale like cigarettes to avoid cigarette tax. :eeek: Really? That many people are smoking "little cigars" as cigarettes?! And does anyone know if a "little cigar" is more money than a cigarette? :brick: I've been hanging out at my B&M in NH and watch tons of cigarette smokers come in to buy cartons (some of those no-name cigs are really cheap) or loose tobacco for rolling, but maybe I just haven't noticed those "little cigars" flying of the shelves.

What's even more disturbing is another bill, HB1510, "which would introduce a
60 percent tax on the wholesale price of a retailer's entire
cigar inventory, as well as a 60 percent tax on the wholesale
price of individual sticks purchased." :brick:

NH voters (as well as out-of-state cigar smokers) time to let your voice be heard. What happened to the tax-free, business friendly, John Birch Society, New Hampshire I used to know? Too many Mass. liberals move north and poison the well? (Ummm, in case you're wondering I lean more to the left but government waste and foolish law making is shimming me more each year.) I may send some emails to bill sponsors as someone who drops a lot of coin across the state line. Of course, admitting I buy in tax free NH will probably have the Mass. Dept. of Revenue knocking at my door with their fat fingers out.


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## Toasted Coastie (Feb 16, 2008)

This bill is in interim study: http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/legislation/2008/HB1510.html

While certainly disconcerting, these suggested changes have a long way to go before vote. This gives time to rally against it. Anywho, I guess I will be going shopping pretty soon.....


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## nhcigarfan-cl (May 8, 2007)

I've been following that cigar tax bill also. It hasn't been getting any traction. I not worried.

On a better note, there is a new liquor license bill in the capital. Currently under NH law liquor licenses are set up so there aren't any true "bars" that serve alcohol only. Either you have a promotion/event license which allows alcohol sale due to an event, such as a band or catering, or a liquor license were a percentage, I think it's like 60% or 70%, of your gross sales must be from food. 

These two new licenses will allow establishments, such as cigar stores, to get a license to sell alcohol without meeting either the promotion or food sale requirements. 

Basically, it will create a bar situation where smoking is allowed under the smoke-free policy in NH. Places that serve food will remain smoke-free. 



Smart thinking in my opinion. It meets the needs of both sides. Also, a great additional revenue source for our local B&M's.


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## Toasted Coastie (Feb 16, 2008)

I saw that one too. Definitely a great revenue stream for B&M's


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## Doogie (Oct 15, 2007)

fight hard guys, but you will probably loose. the compromize will be they wont tax the inventory but everything else. being able to sell liquer at local B&M would be nice


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## maduromojo-cl (Dec 15, 2007)

Thanks for that link Ron. And that's interesting Tyler, it paves the way for Cigar Bars and B&M's to have cigar/alcohol promotional events without the red tape. 

As a note, the Cigar Insider article mentioned that on March 5th the New Hampshire House of Representatives voted to pass bill HB 1309 that changed the definition of “cigarettes” in the state tobacco tax to include small-sized cigars. So that's the first step. If "little cigars" are now "cigarettes" they should be able to be taxed even if HB 1510 doesn't pass it seems. (Incidentally, I edited my initial post to make it clearer what HB 1309 means. I misunderstood the details of what each bill covered.)

Btw, Ron, no Ashton Heritage in full boxes. Unless something comes in from Manchester. I'm dying to take a ride today.


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## Toasted Coastie (Feb 16, 2008)

maduromojo said:


> Thanks for that link Ron. The Cigar Insider article mentioned on March 5, the New Hampshire House of Representatives voted to pass bill HB 1309 that changed the definition of "cigarettes" in the state tobacco tax to include small-sized cigars. So that's the first step. If "little cigars" are now "cigarettes" they should be able to be taxed even if HB 1510 doesn't pass it seems. (Incidentally, I edited my initial post to make it clearer what HB 1309 means. I misunderstood the details of what each bill covered.)
> 
> Btw, Ron, no Ashton Heritage boxes. Unless something comes in from Manchester. I'm dying to take a ride today.


I think that Manchester Hudson News is closed though. Check out Holy Smokes on South Willow BLVD. Mike (the owner) is a hot shit and loves to talk about tobacco legislation....


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## maduromojo-cl (Dec 15, 2007)

Toasted Coastie said:


> I think that Manchester Hudson News is closed though. Check out Holy Smokes on South Willow BLVD. Mike (the owner) is a hot shit and loves to talk about tobacco legislation....


Yeah I thought Manchester was closed too but they may not have dumped all their inventory on Nashua yet. One of the clerks (or managers, it was on the phone on the weekend) gave me the impression that there may be more to come from the Manchester store. Wishful thinking on my part?

Okay just talked to someone there (I wanted a list of boxes in stock because it's a pain to see them) and he said no more from Manchester but he may re-stock. Also, they'll be open for about a year more in Nashua.


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## Toasted Coastie (Feb 16, 2008)

maduromojo said:


> Yeah I thought Manchester was closed too but they may not have dumped all their inventory on Nashua yet. One of the clerks (or managers, it was on the phone on the weekend) gave me the impression that there may be more to come from the Manchester store. Wishful thinking on my part?
> 
> Okay just talked to someone there (I wanted a list of boxes in stock because it's a pain to see them) and he said no more from Manchester but he may re-stock. Also, they'll be open for about a year more in Nashua.


Nice....


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## [email protected] (Oct 18, 2007)

doogie466 said:


> fight hard guys, but you will probably loose. the compromize will be they wont tax the inventory but everything else. being able to sell liquer at local B&M would be nice


I wouldn't necessarily assume this. NH voters are a curious lot. They take things like personal liberties and nongovernmental interference pretty seriously. Whereas in most states, the average voter might look at this situation and say "well, they need the money, gotta tax someone for it, better the smokers than me." NH voters are more likely to see if for what it really is and say "well, if I let them get this tax through the door, then next month, they'll come back with another proposal that may indeed affect me, so let's kill this one now."

Keep in mind that NH is the only state that has a law written to ensure it's Presidential Primary is first, has no helmet law for Motorcycle riders, and at least used to not have a seatbelt law (not sure if the last one is still the case).

Residents gotta take action, but they probably will. I certainly hope so or I may have to find another B&M.

- Jim


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## nhcigarfan-cl (May 8, 2007)

No helmet law or seat belt law for adults. I think it's either under 12 or under 18 for the seatbelt and it might be the same for the helmet. Not sure though.


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## FN in MT-cl (Feb 25, 2008)

We are pretty liberal out here in Montana. Up until a few years ago it was legal here to drive....Yet consume alcohol...as long as You were not over the limit. NO mandatory helmet law for adults, etc.

Yet we have a 100% tax on tobacco products. When it was up for vote in the Legislature several years ago the State was really broke. Normally I'd have given it a 50/50 chance of passing, yet it did.

NH may be liberal but when it comes to securing additional Govt funding.......anything can happen. Don't give up the fight.

FN in MT


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