# The Stamp?



## MocoBird (Sep 2, 2004)

Though I would put this question out to all you monkeys and see if we can't come up with an explanation.
Heres my story&#8230;..
As most of you know, and those who don't need to check out the photos of mine in the Counterfeit Cigar Photos Gallery, that I have a small collection of counterfeit Cuban cigar boxes. I get a lot of questions concerning these boxes and how I came to the conclusion that they truly are fakes. My standard answer is to say "The seal is void of any watermark and the micro-printing is one solid line. This telling me it's a copy. Also a friend of mine gave them to me along with a few other boxes of "Cubans" and we both knew they were all fakes." Now believe me when I say that I am sure these are fakes. The person I got them from would openly discuss the fact that they were fakes and when he had to go away on "vacation" for 2-5 years instead of throwing them away he gave them to me. I should add we were not what you would call close friend more acquaints who paths would cross every once in a while. He was just aware that I had a fondness for cigars and offered them to me. With that said here's the question. I was pm by falconpunch99 aka Jason and he asked this&#8230;.

*Hi, I was looking at the photos from your "fake" monte #2's in the counterfeit gallery. My question is why were they fake???? Someone said on one of the photos, I think it was poker, that he has seen "the stamp" on many counterfeit boxes before, but I don't buy it. I would really appreciate knowing all the ways they were fake. You were right, they do look good! Thanks
-Jason (AKA falconpunch99)*

To which I gave him the standard reply stated above. To which he replied&#8230;.

*I recently bought a box of monte #2's in december. The box code checked out, the UV light test checked out the micro printing checked out, everything checked out, but it has that seal on there. Does that mean, in spite of everything checking out right, these are fakes?
-Jason*

To add to the dilemma, Poker had made a post on a picture of the seal in question in the Counterfeit Cigar Photos Gallery and said&#8230;..

*Seen that round stamp many times and every time it indicated a fake box.
Great pic.* (_gee thx's, i try _  )

Also another member "rabiis" posted on the same photo&#8230;

*I seen that same stamp on boxes and I was wondering the same thing. I heard that "tiendas intur" are actually government run stores in Cuba....you think they're coming out of there? I'm going to inspect that box further and check the government seal for the microprinting. Thanks for the info*

Anybody know anything about this stamp? I have no answer for falconpunch99. I have never seen it before on any "real" box of Cubans I have purchased. Only on the "fakes" I have and they all have it. I also have unopened boxes of "fake" Cohiba Robustos and RyJ Churchills that you folks have not seen yet. They also has the same round stamp. Actually the picture below is from the box of RyJ Churchills. Any thoughts?


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## Cigar Czar (Mar 6, 2005)

Just by the Gloss on the Seal, FAKE FROM A MILE AWAY.

It says on the top of the stamp in spanish "Sold In Cuba"

The bottom letters of the stamp, seem to read Counterfeit in a foreign language. Must have been stamped by a foreign customs agent.

Can anyone on the board read, or know what language is it?

Fake, photo copy written All Over That Seal. :w


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## MocoBird (Sep 2, 2004)

Cigar Czar said:


> Just by the Gloss on the Seal, FAKE FROM A MILE AWAY.


The reason for the gloss on the seal is because the box is covered in plastic. It's shrink-wrapped. Check out my photo gallery and you will see pictures of a seal after the shrink-wrap has been removed....no gloss.


Cigar Czar said:


> The bottom letters of the stamp, seem to read Counterfeit in a foreign language.


..and which language would that be? Spanish?


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## Cigar Czar (Mar 6, 2005)

Really can't read them, what is spelled on it? :w


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## MocoBird (Sep 2, 2004)

Cigar Czar said:


> Really can't read them, what is spelled on it? :w


Top of the circle: VENDIDO EN CUBA
Bottom of circle: COMINTUR
Middle of circle: TIENDAS INTUR


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## Cigar Czar (Mar 6, 2005)

Nope..."No Saber" "No Se" :w


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## MocoBird (Sep 2, 2004)

The mystery continues.......................


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## Cigar Czar (Mar 6, 2005)

Went on a site in Cuba, the only hit is that the word in the middle is a State Shop like Caracol, but no Hits on the bottom word. :w


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## Navydoc (Jan 26, 2005)

Without a doubt......the stamp tells me they are fake...I have purchased several boxes with this stamp and everyone was fake. I, like many others on this board, have purchased many real boxes and none of them have ever had this "stamp". All the boxes coming out of Miami have this stamp and are ALL fake. Just my experience and 2 cents...The seal number also usually begins with DBxxxxxxxxx


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## Viper139 (Jan 13, 2005)

The name and logo play on the »Tiendas Intur«, the state-run stores in Cuba, in which one can only make purchases with hard currency. 

I did a search on the term Tiendas Intur and as you can see it refers to a state run store in Cuba that only allows hard surrency transactions. I found many other references to that type of store.


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## MocoBird (Sep 2, 2004)

Well there’s no doubt that these are fakes. I was just wondering I guess if there ever was a time where maybe this type of stamp was used. I was afraid that falconpunch99 might be holding a box of fakes. Just kind of wanted to pass it by everyone and get a few opinions for him. You would not believe how good these boxes look. On the front of the RyJ Chuchills boxes the gold medals are even embossed into the paper and the cigars inside look perfect. Damn good job for a bunch of fakes!
Thanks guy….I do value your .02 cents!


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## Cigar Czar (Mar 6, 2005)

The color of the Offical Seal is too Green, 
and slightly off skew.Ha Ha Fakes, maybe letting them
settle a bit might make them smokeable.LMFAO :w


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## MocoBird (Sep 2, 2004)

Cigar Czar said:


> maybe letting them
> settle a bit might make them smokeable.LMFAO :w


I've had them for about 3 years or so. Think thats long enough? :r


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## Cigar Czar (Mar 6, 2005)

And the Review is? "It Tastes Cuban" :w


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## MocoBird (Sep 2, 2004)

Cigar Czar said:


> And the Review is? "It Tastes Cuban" :w


Well maybe "It looks Cuban"


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## Cartierusm (Jan 25, 2005)

Moco, have you ever had a box of real Cubans that were shrink wrapped? Because I've never seen one that is, even in LCDH.


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## ilikecigars (Mar 24, 2003)

i remember reading on another board about that stamp and how they said it was from a box of fugazzis..not that that helps any.
what bothers me is that there are places (sites) on the web were one can buy lables,boxes,seals...all very legit habanos stuff .
the only proof nowdays is in the puddung or should i say the cigar itself..

anyone can save/buy bands, put them on a triple cap domestic and put them in a real cuban box...and yes even triple cappa is no proof anymore..it has too taste cuban..and then ive had cuban origan cigars that were good and cuban but not what they were sold as...
the dang farmers steal or buy cheap tabaco and roll them in there houses and sell on the streets or too guys wanting to stick bands on them box them and sell in the states..especially florida.
so buyer beware more then ever..find one good vendor and stick with him i say...


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## rumballs (Mar 15, 2005)

"Sold in Cuba" is obvious.
"Intur" stands for Instituto de Turismo.
"Tiendas Intur" are tourist stores.
"Comintur" is probably something like "Comisión Interdepartamental del Turismo Rural".

It seems obvious that Comintur is some variation of Intur.

There is a different acronym in Cuba - COMARNA which is Comisión Nacional de Protección del Medio Ambiente y del Uso Racional de los Recursos Naturales

I found one site (in Spain I think, rather than Cuba) where it seems to stand for "Comisión Interdepartamental del Turismo Rural"

"Intur" also refers to a type of currency in Cuba. 
Cuba uses Pesos and Centavos, but also has a separate currency system for visitors, which gets the nickname "intur", because it is issued by the tourism department. This type of currency is fixed to the US Dollar.

"Comintur" also seems to be an internet provider in Uruguay.

That's all I can find.
Here's my "bibliography":
http://www.sed.manchester.ac.uk/geography/undergraduate/fieldwork/cuba/living_economy.htm
http://babelfish.altavista.com/babe...org.uy/revista.062/Comunicacion.html&lp=es_en
http://www.cubanet.org/CNews/y02/nov02/08e6.htm
http://petrus.upc.es/~saaei2001/actas/infoturi/cubaocio.htm
http://www.canadacuba.ca/traveltips/qandatours.php
http://digilander.libero.it/mirson/stati/cuba.htm
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?r102:E19FE1-244:
http://www.hellocuba.ca/advice.php


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## Nely (Nov 11, 2004)

This seal is very weird. So there hasn't been a legit box carrying this seal right? What would be the reason for putting the seal on then?


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## poker (Dec 11, 1997)

I stand by what I said. They're not what they appear to be.


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## SeanGAR (Jul 9, 2004)

poker said:


> I stand by what I said. They're not what they appear to be.


Hey poker, is the factory stamp always above the date stamp or can they be on the same line?


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## poker (Dec 11, 1997)

Seen them both ways. More often then not though, the factory & date are on seperate lines.


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## SeanGAR (Jul 9, 2004)

poker said:


> Seen them both ways. More often then not though, the factory & date are on seperate lines.


Thanks


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## rabiis (Mar 10, 2005)

There is another stamp that I seen it's a lot smaller than the one in question and I will post a pic as soon as I can get my hands on the box. I was wondering if anyone on here has seen something along these lines?


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## falconpunch99 (Feb 15, 2005)

I was looking at the counterfeit galleries when I noticed Mocobird's box of monte #2s. As I looked them over I couldn't for the life of me figure out why they were fakes, which is why I PMed him. His answer satisfied me so I just said to myself "Wow those are some really good fakes!" Then I noticed pokers comment about the seal. This threw me for a loop because I had recently bought a box of montes with that seal on there. So I checked everything, and everything came out positive: the labels, the government seal, the micro printing, the backlight water seal, etc. and all were liget. I have bought a box before without the seal so I shrugged it off because everything else checked out, they even smelled like s#@% when I opened the box, always a sign to me that the cigars are cuban. I've smoked a couple and have never thought they weren't cubans. Now I all of a sudden have doubts because of the stupid seal business. If these are fakes then they need to go in a museum for being the greatest copy of something yet produced by human hands. This is one of those questions I'm going to ask God when I get to heaven.


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## GOAT LOCKER (Aug 7, 2004)

falconpunch99 said:


> I had recently bought a box of montes with that seal on there.


 Well, you could ask Moco to contact his friend for a refund :r But then, you might end up sleepin with the fishes :gn


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## rabiis (Mar 10, 2005)

I hate to burst your bubble dude but I two boxes with this stamp in question and they are fake!!! lol although, the seal is a good fake but upon further inspection you can see the inconsistancies. Also, another thing noticed is the month for the box code is abbreviated in english instead of spanish i.e. "AUG" instead of "AGO" what's up with that? Cuba is a spanish speaking country why would they abbreviate in english?


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## falconpunch99 (Feb 15, 2005)

Nely said:


> This seal is very weird. So there hasn't been a legit box carrying this seal right? What would be the reason for putting the seal on then?


Exactly


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## One Lonely Smoker (Jan 21, 2005)

Not to keep this going or anything, but this one time...at cigar camp...
No, really, I ordered a box from a guy in Canada but the FerdX box came from Miami. The govt warranty seal was as big as the old style, and really shiny and had this peel off type adhesive on it. The UV's didn't work, the cigars smelled like another form of s-h-i-tee, and the cigars and bands looked like crap. So I back-charged him and called the tip line of the Miami-Dade Sheriff's office and filled them in on the name and the return address on the FerdX form and what had happened to me and what I though they were up to. A week or so later I heard about a major cigar bust in Miami on yahoo news. Connected??? I hope so. I hope that the supreme being has a karmic surprise for scum like that. The vendor allowed you to get online havana cigars if that helps.


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## rumballs (Mar 15, 2005)

One Lonely Smoker said:


> Not to keep this going or anything, but this one time...at cigar camp...
> No, really, I ordered a box from a guy in Canada but the FerdX box came from Miami. The govt warranty seal was as big as the old style, and really shiny and had this peel off type adhesive on it. The UV's didn't work, the cigars smelled like another form of s-h-i-tee, and the cigars and bands looked like crap. So I back-charged him and called the tip line of the Miami-Dade Sheriff's office and filled them in on the name and the return address on the FerdX form and what had happened to me and what I though they were up to. A week or so later I heard about a major cigar bust in Miami on yahoo news. Connected??? I hope so. I hope that the supreme being has a karmic surprise for scum like that. The vendor allowed you to get online havana cigars if that helps.


I'm confused. You called the police and said "I just tried to buy Cubans. Go arrest the people that sold them, even though they didn't actually sell me cubans." ?


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## JustAyoungMC (Feb 26, 2005)

mmblz said:


> I'm confused. You called the police and said "I just tried to buy Cubans. Go arrest the people that sold them, even though they didn't actually sell me cubans." ?


There was an episode of Cops in which the police were called to an argument and when the police arrived one of those engaged informed them that the other had stolen his weed and he wanted it back or money for it.


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## SVTNate (Dec 22, 2003)

Fakes. That warranty seal is a pathetic attempt. If you have to ask, you're buying them from the wrong places.

Cuba doesn't seal boxes in plastic, but some vendors do for shipping. I get boxes sealed in plastic all the time, and the warranty seals don't look like that.


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