# Cigars vs. Pipes



## z0diac (May 18, 2010)

After smoking pipes for a few months now, trying different pipes, different tobaccos, different packing techniques, etc... I can honestly say I DO like smoking my pipe, but wow is it ever a lot more work than smoking a cigar, and not nearly as tasteful. So I decided to put a list of pros and cons for each. I'm sure everyone will be able to add a dozen more for each one, but this is just MY findings...

Cigars & Pipes: Pros & Cons

Cigar Pros 
- Can be smoked usually without needing relight
- can easily be put into pocket
- can be held in mouth without hands
- you know when it's finished
- no cleaning required
- no tongue bite

Cigar Cons
- foul smell to non-smokers
- humidors need to have levels maintained
- mold or beetle outbreak can destroy entire humidor's collection
- lengthy smoke times *
- expensive compared to other tobaccos

Pipe Pros
- enjoyment of using same pipe repeatedly and getting it 'worked in' with use
- cheap tobacco compared to cigars
- wider variety of tastes in tobacco

Pipe Cons
- tongue bite
- needs to be re-lit often to keep getting mouthfuls of smoke
- lengthy smoke times *
- hard to tell when a bowl is actually 'finished'
- often require one hand to hold
- can't be stored on-person easily (and after you're done you're stuck with your pipe and tamper that you have to hold if you're out somewhere)
- need to be cleaned after use
- pipes can be expensive
- when smoking in public, you can get nasty stares at you from people who think you're smoking a crack pipe - especially when holding a lighter to it (no lie!)

Summary
- cigars are better for traveling around with, and are much easier to smoke. You light and enjoy. And you're pretty much going to have a lot of smoke on each draw, and can smoke it down to the end where you know it's done, and can then discard either in ashtray or anywhere outside, as it's just leaves anyway (whereas with a pipe, how many times have I smoked and smoked, thought I'm done, tapped out the ash only to find a large lump of unburnt tobacco fall out). Pipes are more suited to indoor smoking where you can hold on to it or set it down when you need both hands. Some might say, well you can just buy a light weight pipe for when you're doing things like driving or fishing, etc.. True but what if the pipes I like are too heavy to hold in the mouth while doing that? It means I have to give them up. Pipes have the advantage of having more tolerable odors when smoked inside (compared to cigars), but are much more finicky and require more work to keep going. The one advantage I found with a pipe, is I can let it go out if I don't feel like standing outside on the porch any longer, bring it in, tap out the ash, and leave the remaining unsmoked tobacco in the pipe and store it in my cabinet without stinking up the room. Cigars go out fairly quickly after you stop drawing on them as well, but if you don't have a container to put them in which seals, they're not very pleasant to leave in a room for a day or two. The major disadvantage with the actual smoking of a pipe (that I've found) is the lack of flavor and smoke compared to cigars. With a cigar, you get mouthfuls of flavor and smoke on each draw, but with a pipe, you get a lot when you light it and heat is being directly applied, but to keep it smoking well, sometimes you have to keep sucking on it to the point of bad tongue bite (and bowl heat-up) just to keep it burning properly, and it becomes very frustrating. Ok if I was sitting inside, with my tamper text to me, and a lighter to keep re-lighting it, but it's usually more than I want to put up with when I'm doing something else.

I've been smoking a pipe only for a few months, and took up cigars last summer, but of the two, I'll have to say cigar smoking is much more pleasurable. That may change in the future of course, and I *DO* still like smoking my pipes, but for someone who likes very strong flavor, mouthfuls of smoke, and doesn't have the patience to fidget with what I'm smoking on a regular basis just to keep it going properly, I'll chose cigars over pipes. But luckily, we can chose BOTH 

ps - before pro-pipers reply in force saying "yah well you're just not experienced enough" or "your tobacco is probably too wet" or whatever... I've tried lots of variations. Different kinds of tobacco, using it right away, sometimes drying it out for DAYS beforehand, light packing, tight packing, etc, etc. and as much as I *DO* like smoking my pipes (don't get me wrong here, I'm NOT anti-pipe !!), I'm someone who likes to light what I'm smoking and have mouthfuls of smoke and taste from start to finish without having to worry about anything else. Cigars give that to me.

* - by lengthy smoke times I mean, you can't step outside for a 'quick pipe' or a 'quick cigar' while you're at a bar or restaurant or friend's house. I guess this is an advantage that cigarettes have over both (doh!)


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## dirletra (Apr 14, 2009)

I started down the pipe slope about a month ago now and I have really enjoyed it! My main cons for cigars are price, price, and time. I've been having a bowl or three a day of baccy and I truly love the taste! Although most the tobacco species are different than cigar tobacco, I have found them to be pretty complex, yet not as much as some cigars. If I'm at home I'll enjoy either a cigar (which takes me at least 1.25 hours to smoke) or a pipe. If I'm out I'll enjoy a smaller cigar (looking at some <2$ CCs) or some nice Amish chewing tobacco. I am a tobacco freak and a tobacco purists. Your right though, I'm getting pretty good at smoking out of a pipe, but with a cigar, you can rest your mind a little more with the relights. Either way, I think they each have their places and are both excellent!!


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## DSturg369 (Apr 6, 2008)

dirletra said:


> Either way, I think they each have their places and are both excellent!!


+1

As for pros and cons.... Each smoker must make their own list and decide.


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## Johnny Rock (Jun 25, 2010)

I love them both. I would smoke my pipes more if I could find some medium to full flavor/nic tobacco that doesn't have a huge bite, the only turn off for me atm.


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## Zfog (Oct 16, 2010)

Johnny Rock said:


> I love them both. I would smoke my pipes more if I could find some medium to full flavor/nic tobacco that doesn't have a huge bite, the only turn off for me atm.


They both have pros and cons of course. Not really going to get into that again.
@ JR try out G&H Dark Flake Unscented or even Petersons Irish Flake.

:spider:


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## Johnny Rock (Jun 25, 2010)

I'll check those out Zach, thanks.

I haven't smoked much flake, but I understand that flake when rubbed and dried properly might deliver less bite, even with the full flavor blends. Gotta try some flake!!


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## TonyBrooklyn (Jan 28, 2010)

For me pipe tobacco is over processed like fast food! Once in a while okay, just really a matter of taste preferred! Cigars have more depth and change like the weather. More often i am surprised by a cigar never by a pipe.


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## z0diac (May 18, 2010)

dirletra said:


> I started down the pipe slope about a month ago now and I have really enjoyed it! My main cons for cigars are price, price, and time.


Definitely. A $10 tin can last me quite awhile, whereas a $10 cigar will last me 45mins. Although, I don't buy $10 cigars. But even $3-5 cigars are still far more expensive than pipe tobacco or cigarettes.



> I've been having a bowl or three a day of baccy and I truly love the taste!


Oh no doubt. I love the taste of my pipe tobaccos, but I just wish there was MORE of it. Then again, coming from a cigar past, I guess it's expected for me to find pipes on the weak side.



> some nice Amish chewing tobacco. I am a tobacco freak and a tobacco purists.


After opening up a new tin of Dunhill flake and smelling it, I instantly wanted some old Redman chew (yah.. the hick stuff). The smell reminded me of it right away and that Dunhill smelt sooooo good I just wanted to stuff it in my mouth 



> Your right though, I'm getting pretty good at smoking out of a pipe, but with a cigar, you can rest your mind a little more with the relights. Either way, I think they each have their places and are both excellent!!


Oh most definitely. As I said, I love my pipe smoking. It just takes a lot more effort, which I don't always have the time/place to put in. I think I would enjoy it much more if I smoked inside and could sit on the couch watching a movie or in front of the computer with a pipe at my side.


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## z0diac (May 18, 2010)

Johnny Rock said:


> I love them both. I would smoke my pipes more if I could find some medium to full flavor/nic tobacco that doesn't have a huge bite, the only turn off for me atm.


The best tobacco I've found so far (and some pipe-background smokers find it harsh and disgusting) is 1792 by Sam Gawith. Still not as strong as smoking a cigar, but when it's burning nicely it'll be close to a mild-medium cigar. Nice tobacco flavor too. I'm not big on the soapy flavors that English tobacco have. I like a nice strong Virginia.

Some day I'll break apart a nice cigar and try smoking it in the pipe. See if it's the pipe tobacco that's weak or just the process of smoking it in a pipe that makes it weaker. But I'd imagine the tobacco of a nice full-bodied strong cigar smoked in a pipe would be a fairly nice (if not at least unique) experience.


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## z0diac (May 18, 2010)

Johnny Rock said:


> I'll check those out Zach, thanks.
> 
> I haven't smoked much flake, but I understand that flake when rubbed and dried properly might deliver less bite, even with the full flavor blends. Gotta try some flake!!


Dried is always better I find. And it's DEFINITELY the moisture that gives the bite. It converts to hot steam during combustion and stings the tongue. Many people think the exact opposite - that the moisture 'cools' the smoke making it smoother. Not so.

But Sam Gawith's 1792 flake has VERY little bite. I've only had 2 bowls but didn't dry it at all first and just stuffed it straight in, and it was a fairly dry smoke.


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## Mante (Dec 25, 2009)

Being new to pipes I am enjoying the new tastes & sensations, preferring to not compare the two as I find them complimentary to each other. Both enhance my smoking journey & relaxation in their own way.


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## Xodar (Mar 4, 2011)

I have limited cigar experience, but the quick pipe smoke can be found. Smoking ban in bars here means periodically everyone files out to a balcony for a cigarette, and I just relight the pipe still in my pocket from the last trip, and when everyone stubs a butt I just place back in my pocket for the next lap. It's one of my favorite aspects of pipe smoking actually.

Only recently have I started sampling mid range-ish cigars, and still smoke them like a treat when finishing something difficult or relaxing with a drink.

But for the most part I find tobacco to be like sex, however I go about it I seem to enjoy it.


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## Xodar (Mar 4, 2011)

z0diac said:


> Dried is always better I find. And it's DEFINITELY the moisture that gives the bite. It converts to hot steam during combustion and stings the tongue. Many people think the exact opposite - that the moisture 'cools' the smoke making it smoother. Not so.
> 
> But Sam Gawith's 1792 flake has VERY little bite. I've only had 2 bowls but didn't dry it at all first and just stuffed it straight in, and it was a fairly dry smoke.


Hmm, I'd say moisture and oversmoking are the most common causes of a scalded tongue or bite, but they're not the sole cause. Sometimes it's a chemical reaction to a topping or the alkalinity shift sweet tobaccos provide (which is where all the acidic drink advice comes into play). I know on a personal level SG Best Brown Flake removes skin off my tongue freshly lit in a churchwarden, our mutual PH'es clash. But I can smoke FVF from the same manufacturer like I was racing to finish with little ill effect. 
But I do agree, virtually every pipe tobacco benefits from some drying time, with a few noteable exceptions (H&H blends come pretty crispy).


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## 92hatchattack (May 30, 2009)

I have a pipe question. Is most pipe tobacco flavored or natural? Every time i smell someone smoking a pipe its always a wonderfull sweet smell. Im always thinking to myself that theres no way thats natural tobacco, and it must be infused.


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## Andrewdk (Feb 3, 2011)

Smoke what you like and like what you smoke. I enjoy both, relights not a big deal as cigars present as many burning issues (corrections, poor construction etc). I rarely get an hour plus to enjoy a smoke so I like the fact I can put my pipe down come back later and its just as good, stop part way through a cigar and the rides over.


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## z0diac (May 18, 2010)

Xodar said:


> Hmm, I'd say moisture and oversmoking are the most common causes of a scalded tongue or bite, but they're not the sole cause. Sometimes it's a chemical reaction to a topping or the alkalinity shift sweet tobaccos provide (which is where all the acidic drink advice comes into play). I know on a personal level SG Best Brown Flake removes skin off my tongue freshly lit in a churchwarden, our mutual PH'es clash. But I can smoke FVF from the same manufacturer like I was racing to finish with little ill effect.
> But I do agree, virtually every pipe tobacco benefits from some drying time, with a few noteable exceptions (H&H blends come pretty crispy).


Yes the chemicals in the tobacco do play a role in tongue bite - I've noticed even drying out aromatics still stings my tongue when smoking. And the Dunhill Flake (virginia) I just had, which I lay out for *2 days* gave me tongue bite which I'm still feeling (I smoked it 4hrs ago!). Whereas 1792 hasn't given me tongue bite yet and I smoke that wet right out of the tin. But I noticed the dry Dunhill Flake I had today wasnt nearly as bad as my first bowl which was straight out of the tin.

But I agree with everyone else's comments - both cigars and pipes have their place. I enjoy both. I just seem to need more alignment of the stars and heavens to be able to enjoy my pipes as much as I enjoy my cigars :redface:


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## dirletra (Apr 14, 2009)

Tobacco is an amazing and seductive plant. I can relish it in any form. It is truly amazing! I'm reading a spectacular book about the history of tobacco, and the knowledge it has given me makes me enjoy the plant even more. Speaking of putting cigar tobacco in a pipe, I'm very curious to see how that would taste. I'm going to try and smoke that chewing tobacco out of my pipe tomorrow and see if it's any good. I'm pretty sure it is straight Virginia tobacco bc the leaves arent as thick and dark as burley. Just an FYI.


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## z0diac (May 18, 2010)

dirletra said:


> Tobacco is an amazing and seductive plant. I can relish it in any form. It is truly amazing! I'm reading a spectacular book about the history of tobacco, and the knowledge it has given me makes me enjoy the plant even more. Speaking of putting cigar tobacco in a pipe, I'm very curious to see how that would taste. I'm going to try and smoke that chewing tobacco out of my pipe tomorrow and see if it's any good. I'm pretty sure it is straight Virginia tobacco bc the leaves arent as thick and dark as burley. Just an FYI.


I'm the same way. I used to just smoke cigarettes but that was just out of habit. (wasn't addicted, still not.. .can go a week without thinking of a smoke in winter, but it's out of habit - while I'm driving, on break at work, etc.) Then I got into cigars last summer. Absolutely LOVE the taste, just don't love the lack of time I have to fit one in. Then I got into a YouTube kick about pipes, pipe tobacco, etc... anything that you need 'stuff' for, I'm a junky for. (One of the best things I like about photography is just all the gear that's required) So naturally, a hobby in pipes and pipe smoking was going to happen. Then, after receiving my first fresh pipe tobacco tins and smelling it, I had an urge for chewing tobacco. Something with some physical WEIGHT that you can actually FEEL on your palette and not just airy smoke. But I can't find anywhere that sells it anymore (and I'm not into the 'dipping' tobacco like Skoal. More a Redman guy myself (although I've only chewed tobacco maybe half a dozen times, and that was 25 yrs ago).

NOW I'm thinking of getting into snuff. At least I can do it indoors. And I thought PIPE smoking got me weird looks when lighting it in public. Wait until they see me snorting snuff off my hand! :rockon:


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## dirletra (Apr 14, 2009)

Haha! I feel ya! Not to get too off topic but I HATE dip! It taste nothing like tobacco, has much higher TSNA levels, contains formaldehyde, and a bunch of other crap! Red man and Levi Garret are delicious but as of this week I've been getting into good ole plain Jane 100% tobacco. It's grown by the Amish you can get them here. 2 bucks for 3 oz of tobacco! I'm in heaven! It's the most primitive form of tobacco and I love it! Im growing my own chew and pipe tobacco currently. I could go on forever but I won't. :banana::bounce::banana:


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## Blue_2 (Jan 25, 2011)

92hatchattack said:


> I have a pipe question. Is most pipe tobacco flavored or natural? Every time i smell someone smoking a pipe its always a wonderfull sweet smell. Im always thinking to myself that theres no way thats natural tobacco, and it must be infused.


In pipe tobacco it's referred to as Casing. Most pipe tobacco, as in the very aromatic and highest grossing in sales, are all cased tobaccos.

The 'Room Note' of Natural tobaccos tend to earn you just as many friends as Cigar smoke.


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## z0diac (May 18, 2010)

dirletra said:


> Haha! I feel ya! Not to get too off topic but I HATE dip! It taste nothing like tobacco, has much higher TSNA levels, contains formaldehyde, and a bunch of other crap! Red man and Levi Garret are delicious but as of this week I've been getting into good ole plain Jane 100% tobacco. It's grown by the Amish you can get them here. 2 bucks for 3 oz of tobacco! I'm in heaven! It's the most primitive form of tobacco and I love it! Im growing my own chew and pipe tobacco currently. I could go on forever but I won't. :banana::bounce::banana:


So the Amish are selling on the internet huh? I wonder if they used hand-carved wooden keyboards... Anyway, that site looks great. I'm only 20mins from NY state (I'm in Canada) but may just have to get a NY PO Box and have it delivered there  I'm not -really- into chew though, but sometimes I get a strong urge for it. Especially when I smell the freshness of a nice flake tobacco tin just opened :redface:


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## 92hatchattack (May 30, 2009)

Blue_2 said:


> In pipe tobacco it's referred to as Casing. Most pipe tobacco, as in the very aromatic and highest grossing in sales, are all cased tobaccos.
> 
> The 'Room Note' of Natural tobaccos tend to earn you just as many friends as Cigar smoke.


Ok, so what do most pipe smokers smoke then? The natural or the cased? Do pipe smokers that smoke cased tobacco get the same kind of flack that people that smoke infused cigars tend to get?


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## sengjc (Nov 15, 2010)

Pipe smoking sounds like a lot of work and time. Probably not for me at this point of my life.


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## Mante (Dec 25, 2009)

sengjc said:


> Pipe smoking sounds like a lot of work and time. Probably not for me at this point of my life.


Bloody anally retentive cigar smoker, a friggin Aussie to boot! LMAO. Nowhere near as much effort as you think Seng, in fact I think it is simpler than the effort we put into keeping humidors & cigars.


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## sengjc (Nov 15, 2010)

Tashaz said:


> Bloody anally retentive cigar smoker, a friggin Aussie to boot! LMAO. Nowhere near as much effort as you think Seng, in fact I think it is simpler than the effort we put into keeping humidors & cigars.


I thought you need to go similar lengths for pipe baccy? Maybe not the freezing process but I don't freeze my NCs anyway.


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## Mante (Dec 25, 2009)

sengjc said:


> I thought you need to go similar lengths for pipe baccy? Maybe not the freezing process but I don't freeze my NCs anyway.


No freezing, no humidors, no wrappers splitting, no beetles. More? LOL


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## Andrewdk (Feb 3, 2011)

Tashaz said:


> No freezing, no humidors, no wrappers splitting, no beetles. More? LOL


+1 to that Warren, however it does take time to learn the right packing and puffing technique for a pipe, cigars just light up and smoke.


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## Mante (Dec 25, 2009)

Andrewdk said:


> +1 to that Warren, however it does take time to learn the right packing and puffing technique for a pipe, cigars just light up and smoke.


I agree with your points as well Andrew. I will say however, when I started smoking cigars I very nearly gave up after a few months as I was frustrated with the burn & the way many tasted "off". The retailers were to blame for this. Thank goodness the forums were here for my transition into pipes as it has been almost care free in comparison.:lock1:


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## sengjc (Nov 15, 2010)

Tashaz said:


> No freezing, no humidors, no wrappers splitting, no beetles. More? LOL


I could have sworn I have read threads where it is recommended that pipe baccy be stored in humidified jars of some sort. Hrmmm...



Andrewdk said:


> +1 to that Warren, however it does take time to learn the right packing and puffing technique for a pipe, cigars just light up and smoke.


I have asked Tashaz this before: do you need different pipes for different types of pipe baccy? He didn't really know but he has bought quite a selection of pipes.


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## Andrewdk (Feb 3, 2011)

sengjc said:


> I could have sworn I have read threads where it is recommended that pipe baccy be stored in humidified jars of some sort. Hrmmm...
> 
> I have asked Tashaz this before: do you need different pipes for different types of pipe baccy? He didn't really know but he has bought quite a selection of pipes.


Pipe tobacco needs to be stored in jars so it doesn't dry out, no humidification required.

For regular smoking a number of pipes is required as they need 12-24hrs between smokes to dry out. Some smokers dedicate an individual pipe to a particular blend or brand as some flavours can transition (ghost) to the next smoke, like keeping different cigars in different humis to prevent same.


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## dirletra (Apr 14, 2009)

sengjc said:


> Pipe smoking sounds like a lot of work and time. Probably not for me at this point of my life.


The first time I smoked out of a pipe I got REALLY frustrated, but about three days after that I had it down and could really enjoy it! All the folks here helped me out!


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## Xodar (Mar 4, 2011)

92hatchattack said:


> Ok, so what do most pipe smokers smoke then? The natural or the cased? Do pipe smokers that smoke cased tobacco get the same kind of flack that people that smoke infused cigars tend to get?


Most people here smoke natural I think. Overall I believe there is a heck of a lot more aromatic sold. And yes, there is a little aro-snobbery, lol, but it's not severe. It stems from some blenders using the casings to cover up mediocre tobacco, so people tend to associate heavy aromatics with poor tobacco. There are some good aromatics out there (Boswell's comes to mind) that have a following that combine tasy, good room note, and quality tobacco.


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## DSturg369 (Apr 6, 2008)

Pipe smoking isn't and doesn't have to be a difficult thing. It just takes a little practice is all. You had to learn the in's and out's of cigar smoking didn't you? Storage, cutting, lighting, smoking... Just takes a little time to get it down. Well worth the minimal effort involved.


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## NoShhhSherlock (Mar 30, 2011)

I agree. There really is not any "cons" to pipe smoking nor cigar smoking. They are just attributes that come with the hobby. Pipe smoking is a breeze, and when done right there is no cons. The same with cigar smoking.


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## dirletra (Apr 14, 2009)

Very well put Matthew!


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## z0diac (May 18, 2010)

Tashaz said:


> Bloody anally retentive cigar smoker, a friggin Aussie to boot! LMAO. Nowhere near as much effort as you think Seng, in fact I think it is simpler than the effort we put into keeping humidors & cigars.


Actually i thought the same about cigars before I got into them. But it wasn't until I got my humis that I realized exactly how maintenance free they are. I open the lid to look at the humidity level every week or so (and when I go to grab one of course) but aside from that, nothing. (and every few months I'll take them all out to do a visual inspection - but it's more of a dragon admiring his hoard type thing)

But with pipes it's much more time consuming. Taking apart and cleaning after every use. Letting them sit while apart so that all moisture evaporates. Having to carry around the tamper and lighter after I've lit it, having to carry around a pipe/tamper/lighter after I've smoked it. Having to suck on it to the point of tongue bite just to keep it from going out... I still have tongue bite now after the bowl I smoked YESTERDAY! :mmph:

Pipes taste great when they're burning properly... but they're so much more work. I realize that for some people, that's part of the fun. And I *DO* enjoy my pipes. They're just a ton more work than smoking a stogie.


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## Zfog (Oct 16, 2010)

z0diac said:


> Actually i thought the same about cigars before I got into them. But it wasn't until I got my humis that I realized exactly how maintenance free they are. I open the lid to look at the humidity level every week or so (and when I go to grab one of course) but aside from that, nothing. (and every few months I'll take them all out to do a visual inspection - but it's more of a dragon admiring his hoard type thing)
> 
> But with pipes it's much more time consuming. Taking apart and cleaning after every use. Letting them sit while apart so that all moisture evaporates. Having to carry around the tamper and lighter after I've lit it, having to carry around a pipe/tamper/lighter after I've smoked it. Having to suck on it to the point of tongue bite just to keep it from going out... I still have tongue bite now after the bowl I smoked YESTERDAY! :mmph:
> 
> Pipes taste great when they're burning properly... but they're so much more work. I realize that for some people, that's part of the fun. And I *DO* enjoy my pipes. They're just a ton more work than smoking a stogie.


Sorry but if packed correctly this would not happen my man. practice makes perfect.


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## joay11 (May 20, 2011)

Currently own about thirty pies and have been smoking them for many years now (but have just recently made the switch back to cigars).




Zfog is right, it shouldn't require a great deal of to keep it lit. Most new cigar smokers overpack, pack just enough so it feels "springy".

You're probably smoking something heavily aromatic (wet and gooey), that might explain the tongue bite. I would try a different tobacco, something virgina or english. If you smoke a few bowls at a time you'll get tongue bite no matter what.

I've stored tobacco for many years in cool cellar without humidifcation, it will eventually dry out even in these conditions but can easily be revived with an orange peel.

....but cigars still taste better IMO they just cost more.


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## GeoffbCET (Mar 15, 2011)

They each are in a world of their own. Both with many pros and cons. But, the one thing I think they do have in common is that doing either of them, it's very relaxing. Helps wind down a stressful day.


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## z0diac (May 18, 2010)

Zfog said:


> Sorry but if packed correctly this would not happen my man. practice makes perfect.


Hehe.. I *KNEW* (as I posted in post 1) that I'd get a reply like ^^^ sooner or later 

I've tried a dozen different ways of packing, and have never been able to light it and have mouthfuls of smoke all the way from top down to the bottom of the bowl.

The only time I get lots of smoke is after the tobacco has been lit. Then it goes progressively weaker. And if I ever smoke it casually with a puff here and there, it goes out. You have to draw on it quite often just to keep it going.

I've tried light packing, tight packing, light on the bottom thicker on top, vice versa, I've tried twisting flakes, rubbing flakes out, just stuffing them in, I've tried all that with both fresh tobacco and tobacco that's been left to sit out and dry.

But not just that: EVEN THE VETERANS on YouTube who've been smoking pipes for years (some of them decades!!) are constantly relighting their pipes just to keep them going.

So it's like we have a choice - suck on them to the point of tongue bite to keep them going, or keep putting a lighter up to them ever 5 mins to get them ignited properly again.

It's frustrating! :smile:


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## z0diac (May 18, 2010)

joay11 said:


> You're probably smoking something heavily aromatic (wet and gooey), that might explain the tongue bite. I would try a different tobacco, something virgina or english. If you smoke a few bowls at a time you'll get tongue bite no matter what.


Actually I smoke ONLY Virginia and English. My first pouch was an aromatic, but I got tongue bite (and it was very weak) so I stopped aromatics right then and there. Actually mostly Virginia now. I've tried a few different English and don't go for the soapy/flowery kind of taste that it has. Feels like someone's wife slipped some poupoerie (sp?) in there 

1792 is the only one I've really like so far - very little (if any) bite, and it's stronger than other pipe tobaccos. Still not as strong as a cigar (which is the strength I prefer) but not nearly as weak as the other pipe tobaccos I've tried.

The bowl I had yesterday was Dunhill Flake (virginia). I let it sit out on a piece of blank paper for 1.5 days before smoking it, and I STILL got major bite from it (I smoked it yesterday and can still feel the tongue bite!). And after smoking it for 20-30 mins, I had enough. Pulled out the remaining tobacco and was surprised to see the unburnt tobacco that came out being very very moist, almost to the point of wet.

I think I'll try rubbing the flake out first and letting it dry THAT way instead of in original compressed flake form.


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## Zfog (Oct 16, 2010)

Read the last pipe Article written by I believe Natedogg. The art of tamping properly. It is something that you just kind of figure out. Proper packing, tamping and smoking must be figured out. Once you figure it out it becomes 2nd hand. 
Just like learning to light a cigar. The first time you do it, you are kind of fumbling, overlighting one side more than the other, etc. Once you learn how to do it, it is just natural.
I started with cigars, and I get plumes of smoke from my pipe. Without gettin tongue bite or overheating the bowl.
I have seriously never gotten tongue bite. I also don't smoke many Aro's either.
Not harping, but just trying to help if I can.:smile:


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## karatekyle (Nov 2, 2010)

z0diac said:


> Hehe.. I *KNEW* (as I posted in post 1) that I'd get a reply like ^^^ sooner or later
> 
> I've tried a dozen different ways of packing, and have never been able to light it and have mouthfuls of smoke all the way from top down to the bottom of the bowl.


It seriously takes years to be able to perfectly pack a pipe 100% of the time. Its not like lighting a cigar where you can get really good at it after 40-50 sticks. And you should NEVER have a mouthful of smoke. Its not like a cigar in that sense. You should sip a pipe like you sip really hot coffee. Then you won't usually get tongue bite.



z0diac said:


> The only time I get lots of smoke is after the tobacco has been lit. Then it goes progressively weaker. And if I ever smoke it casually with a puff here and there, it goes out. You have to draw on it quite often just to keep it going.
> 
> I've tried light packing, tight packing, light on the bottom thicker on top, vice versa, I've tried twisting flakes, rubbing flakes out, just stuffing them in, I've tried all that with both fresh tobacco and tobacco that's been left to sit out and dry.
> 
> ...


Letting your pipe go out is a good thing. Its wetter tobacco, it should go out. Its part of pipe smoking. If your pipe doesn't go out, your probably doing it wrong (puffing too hard or fast). Besides, some of the richest taste can come right after you light. I sometimes smoke the first quarter of a bowl then let it go out and leave it for a while and relight it later. It tastes fabulous. I was a die hard cigar smoker and have transitioned to pipes lately. I still love my stogies but a pipe has a certain reverance and history that surpasses the cigar. You can continue to admire and smoke a pipe for a lifetime. You can't go buy "estate" cigars that have been smoked and handed down from man to man over generations. They both have their pros and cons. But relighting, packing, and tongue bite are not cons of pipe smoking. Because they happen much less when you master the art.


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## 92hatchattack (May 30, 2009)

What the hell is tongue bite?


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## Mante (Dec 25, 2009)

92hatchattack said:


> What the hell is tongue bite?


Feels like this.ound:ound:ound:


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## russ812 (Aug 14, 2010)

Tashaz said:


> Feels like this.ound:ound:ound:


Looks like you're losing a little hair Warren. :cheeky:


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## karatekyle (Nov 2, 2010)

92hatchattack said:


> What the hell is tongue bite?


Tashaz pretty much hit the nail on the head! :spit:

Its a feeling on your tongue you get from tobacco that is either too moist. Sometimes certain tobaccos just set it off but I tend to get it from moist tobacco more often than not.


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## Zfog (Oct 16, 2010)

russ812 said:


> Looks like you're losing a little hair Warren. :cheeky:


You would to with tongue bite like that. ound:


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## 92hatchattack (May 30, 2009)

Oh, crap, maybe i dont want to try pipe smoking. haha


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## NoShhhSherlock (Mar 30, 2011)

Jake, on the subject of tongue bite. I have found it can depend on the blend. An example would be the altadis spit fire(notice the name) blend, very pleasant to smoke but it gives a tongue burn like you would not believe. I thought I had an Iron tongue until I tried this blend lol. Also it could depend on how wet/dry the blend is ime, too wet and you will have to relite often and get tongue burn, too dry and it burns too fast and you get tongue burn. So that is something to take into consideration as well as how it is packed. :smile:


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## z0diac (May 18, 2010)

karatekyle said:


> It seriously takes years to be able to perfectly pack a pipe 100% of the time.


AAAaack! My tongue won't last that long! 



> Its not like lighting a cigar where you can get really good at it after 40-50 sticks.


Hm.. maybe it was because I smoked cigarettes before, but I never had a problem lighting a cigar. ( ? )



> And you should NEVER have a mouthful of smoke. Its not like a cigar in that sense. You should sip a pipe like you sip really hot coffee. Then you won't usually get tongue bite.


Aahh, well I'm just to eager with it then. That's what's causing the tongue bite. I want LOTS of thick smoke and mouthfuls of flavor each draw. I get that with a cigar. I think pipes are best for people who haven't smoked before. They're a good introduction. But for people who have smoked cigars and are used to strong tobacco flavors, mouthfuls of thick smoke, etc.. it's a hard transition to go to pipes after that. It's like asking a strong coffee drinker to switch to a herbal tea 



> Letting your pipe go out is a good thing.


Someone earlier posted in this thread that their pipe never goes out, and mine goes out because I'm inexperienced at packing. So who's right? 



> Its wetter tobacco, it should go out. Its part of pipe smoking. If your pipe doesn't go out, your probably doing it wrong (puffing too hard or fast).


Definitely me. I'm impatient. I want it to burn strong continuously so I draw on it to frequently I think.



> Besides, some of the richest taste can come right after you light.


That's because that's when you get the most smoke!  I want it to be like that ALL the time! 



> You can continue to admire and smoke a pipe for a lifetime. You can't go buy "estate" cigars that have been smoked and handed down from man to man over generations.


Yah that's part of the attraction for me. I'm the type of person who only likes coffee mugs with white insides so I can 'work them in' over the years. Some people have to have mugs that look like they were just bought in a store that day. I like the ceramic showing the stains over years of usage. Same with pipes. I get emotionally attached to them. Then again - I get emotionally attached to my work tools as well, so... 
I lost m tape measure at work once and spent endless breaks in the shop looking for it. Even offered up a reward.

I think what I might need is a pipe with a nice short and wide bowl. Keep the CO2 from being trapped deep down inside and causing it to smolder out. Plus I never have time to stand there for 45 mins to smoke a full bowl. Maybe a smaller open bowl would do me some good.


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## z0diac (May 18, 2010)

92hatchattack said:


> What the hell is tongue bite?


it's not something that HURTS right away as if pouring scolding hot water on your tongue would, but the long-lasting feeling is probably the same for both.

Feels like your tongue got scolded in hot water, and the effects can last a long time (over 24hrs later and my tongue is still sore from yesterday).

Pipe tobacco is very wet compared to cigar/cigarette tobacco. When it burns, the moisture at the embers heats into steam, which is drawn into the mouth. That steam making contact with the back and especially the sides of the tongue, burns it.


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## joay11 (May 20, 2011)

Don't get into pipes if you're looking save money on tobacco, once you start appreciate the look, feel and smoke of a nice pipe it can be a slippery slope to inevitably dumping huge $$$ into an pipe collection.


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## Andrewdk (Feb 3, 2011)

joay11 said:


> Currently own about thirty pies


Never smoked a pie, they any good?:biglaugh:


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## joay11 (May 20, 2011)

Andrewdk said:


> Never smoked a pie, they any good?:biglaugh:


dum de dum, I will not recommend pies at this time. hehe


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## sengjc (Nov 15, 2010)

Andrewdk said:


> Never smoked a pie, they any good?:biglaugh:


At least he's not doing unthinkable acts on a pie ala the kid in American Pie. 

Meh, I'll think I'll leave of pipe still, and that graphic explanation from Tashaz isn't helping either.


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## Mante (Dec 25, 2009)

Zfog said:


> You would to with tongue bite like that. ound:


The hair loss makes me distinguished, or is that disgusting? I dont know, ask Tash. :mrgreen:


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## sengjc (Nov 15, 2010)

Where the heck do you get these cat pics, mate? You seem to have loads of them. :twitch:


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## karatekyle (Nov 2, 2010)

z0diac said:


> Pipe tobacco is very wet compared to cigar/cigarette tobacco. When it burns, the moisture at the embers heats into steam, which is drawn into the mouth. That steam making contact with the back and especially the sides of the tongue, burns it.


Back and sides? Interesting! I seem to only get it right on the front and tip area. Must be a difference in smoking technique!

...A better way of saying that is probably "must be _my general lack of_ smoking technique!" :doh:


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## z0diac (May 18, 2010)

karatekyle said:


> Back and sides? Interesting! I seem to only get it right on the front and tip area. Must be a difference in smoking technique!
> 
> ...A better way of saying that is probably "must be _my general lack of_ smoking technique!" :doh:


Yah it's probably to do with where the smoker has the tip of the stem inside his/her mouth while drawing on it. I try to get mine right in the middle of my mouth 'cavity' so it's not going right up against a part of tissue as it's drawn in.

I just had a bowl of 1792 in my new meerschaum and had no bite. But I didn't get any bite with 1792 in my briar either. And that stuff is MOIST. It's gotta be very tobacco-dependent as far as the deciding factors for bite or no bite.

For the record, I have never had tongue bite with a cigar arty: Probably due to the fact that when drawing on a cigar, the combusted gas being drawn in is passing through so much other tobacco, the steam never makes it to the mouth. Whereas in a pipe, the burning tobacco goes pretty much straight into the mouth with nothing in the way. Straight down the tube of the stem and into the mouth. I still haven't tried shredding up part of a cigar and smoking it in the pipe. I'll have to use a cigar cutter and snip off an inch and try it. Although with the much lower moisture content of cigar tobacco, I imagine it wouldn't be as bad as pipe tobacco anyway. But then again, like I said, the 1792 I smoked tonight was very moist. I'll find out if/when I ever get around to trying the cigar-tobacco-in-pipe thing


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## karatekyle (Nov 2, 2010)

z0diac said:


> Aahh, well I'm just to eager with it then. That's what's causing the tongue bite. I want LOTS of thick smoke and mouthfuls of flavor each draw. I get that with a cigar. I think pipes are best for people who haven't smoked before. They're a good introduction. But for people who have smoked cigars and are used to strong tobacco flavors, mouthfuls of thick smoke, etc.. it's a hard transition to go to pipes after that. It's like asking a strong coffee drinker to switch to a herbal tea


I love the coffee to tea analogy. That hits the nail on the head! I was a cigar smoker pre-pipes and I couldn't be more accurate describing my first couple bowls.

And I'd say they're best for people who are looking for a new frontier to master. When you've honed your palate in the world of cigars, take up a pipe. At first, you'll be the coffee fanatic who can't tell the difference between earl grey and green leaf. But you can start to hone your palate even further. I will say, nothing was better for my cigar palate than a month or two of pipe smoking. Makes every flavor in a cigar pop!



> Someone earlier posted in this thread that their pipe never goes out, and mine goes out because I'm inexperienced at packing. So who's right?


In the pipe world, your pipe never going out is like the "holy grail" or perfect bowl. But I used to do it all the time. The thing is, I puffed like a cigar smoker. My tongue ended up black and blue and my pipe was so hot you could fry an egg on it. Its only something to brag about if you sip and smoke the pipe well and it stays lit. Its the mark of a good pipe or tobacco packing job. Now, mine will only do it when I'm smoking bad.

The skinny of it is; if it goes out, you're probably smoking too "well." As pipe smokers smoke more, they get better at judging their rate, pack, tobacco and pipe to get the optimum smoke.



> Definitely me. I'm impatient. I want it to burn strong continuously so I draw on it to frequently I think.


Story of my life, brother! I would be a liar if I said I didn't do the exact same thing 90% of the time. All this advice is coming from a fellow locomotive. I like to have a trail of smoke behind me too!



> That's because that's when you get the most smoke!  I want it to be like that ALL the time!


There are some tobaccos that will have more of this. Look into it. Or blend your own! Find something you like and throw a pinch of tambo in it. Or blending cyrian latakia. Figure out how to make the pipe fit _you. _Not the other way around!!



> Yah that's part of the attraction for me. I'm the type of person who only likes coffee mugs with white insides so I can 'work them in' over the years. Some people have to have mugs that look like they were just bought in a store that day. I like the ceramic showing the stains over years of usage. Same with pipes. I get emotionally attached to them. Then again - I get emotionally attached to my work tools as well, so...
> I lost m tape measure at work once and spent endless breaks in the shop looking for it. Even offered up a reward.


I know it!!! I hate throwing away a good worn in pair of jeans. Or a pair of work boots! I've never understood why anyone colors their hair. I'm 19 with gray hairs already and I cherish every single one! Pipes have such character. I love that about them.



> I think what I might need is a pipe with a nice short and wide bowl. Keep the CO2 from being trapped deep down inside and causing it to smolder out. Plus I never have time to stand there for 45 mins to smoke a full bowl. Maybe a smaller open bowl would do me some good.


Yeah! Try 'em out! Find a bulldog or rhodesian. You might run across something that really works for ya. Thats what all the shapes and different blends are for!

I love that you're trying it and thinking about it. You have a fantastic ideology about it all, I look forward to reading more about your journey.


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## z0diac (May 18, 2010)

Well I tried my first meerschaum pipe last night, with 1792. Burnt *great*. But the other time I smoked 1792 (in my briar) it smoked great too. Instead of folding the flake I rolled it around into a loose wiry ball. Burnt pretty much the whole way without needing a relight. I only re-lit after tamping it down a bit just to ignite it a bit more. Love the meerschaum though (and love 1792 to boot). 'Think I might make my meer 1792-only. 

Actually all these pipe posts should probably go into the pipe forum. This 'technically' is the pipe pro/cons vs. cigar pro/cons thread. Hah.. 'think we lost that a long time ago.

But instead of folding flakes into my briar from now on, I'll try rolling them out a bit into a kind of bird-nest-ball and smoke them that way. 'Still searching for less bite / more combustion.


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## InsidiousTact (Dec 3, 2010)

z0diac said:


> Well I tried my first meerschaum pipe last night, with 1792. Burnt *great*. But the other time I smoked 1792 (in my briar) it smoked great too. Instead of folding the flake I rolled it around into a loose wiry ball. Burnt pretty much the whole way without needing a relight. I only re-lit after tamping it down a bit just to ignite it a bit more. Love the meerschaum though (and love 1792 to boot). 'Think I might make my meer 1792-only.
> 
> Actually all these pipe posts should probably go into the pipe forum. This 'technically' is the pipe pro/cons vs. cigar pro/cons thread. Hah.. 'think we lost that a long time ago.
> 
> But instead of folding flakes into my briar from now on, I'll try rolling them out a bit into a kind of bird-nest-ball and smoke them that way. 'Still searching for less bite / more combustion.


Meers don't really ghost, so try some other baccys in it, you may be pleasantly surprised by the results!


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