# Fake RASS?



## SmokinApe (Jun 20, 2007)

I happened to see a RASS the other day that had a band that was more like this:

Then this:

These are from here:

http://www.cigaraficionado.com/Cigar/CA_Counterfeits/Counterfeit_Page/0,3391,64,00.html

Maybe some of the fine gorillas can compare bands they have seen to these and discuss...

The RASS I saw is from a respected vendor...


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## jmcrawf1 (May 2, 2007)

SmokinApe said:


> The RASS I saw is from a respected vendor...


Cuban quality control?


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## jkorp (Sep 27, 2007)

Damn man, they look too close for me. I'd have a hard time picking that out.

Did you smoke it?


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## SmokinApe (Jun 20, 2007)

To me, the above bands are clearly different... This difference IMO is more than QC...


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## SmokinApe (Jun 20, 2007)

It was smoked and thought to be real...


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## Blueface (May 28, 2005)

Maybe it's me but I wouldn't base it on a band alone.
Would need the stick to also compare.
If smoked, tasted real, water under the bridge.


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## SmokinApe (Jun 20, 2007)

Here is yet another fake band:



The one I saw didn't look like this.

The one I saw was from a box with this code:TEB SEP 07


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## jkorp (Sep 27, 2007)

these things are so inconsistent sometimes, sounds like the smoke confirmed it was a good one I guess


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## SmokinApe (Jun 20, 2007)

jkorp said:


> these things are so inconsistent sometimes, sounds like the smoke confirmed it was a good one I guess


I'd like to think so... I would have never considered it being fake until I saw the gallery of CA...


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## hk3 (Jan 29, 2008)

I have seen this before. I have a box of Belvederes that have the cheesy semi plain bands on them. Now, if you look at the newer Regional bands, they are very, very nice. More define on the raised dots and more vibrant in color as well.


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## Sandman (Mar 26, 2006)

SmokinApe said:


> Here is yet another fake band:
> 
> The one I saw didn't look like this.
> 
> The one I saw was from a box with this code:TEB SEP 07


Nothing wrong with that box code. Did it taste good?


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## SmokinApe (Jun 20, 2007)

Sandman said:


> Nothing wrong with that box code. Did it taste good?


Yes


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## jamesb3 (Jan 29, 2008)

The best thing I can say is to make sure that you are buying your smokes from a reputable dealer. It can make all the difference. Sometimes if a deal sounds to good it probable is. If you know anyone with a lot of experience buying CC's get there advice on where to buy your CC's. I do believe there may be advice here on the site on the best places to buy.


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## Da Klugs (Jan 8, 2005)

If you really want to drive yourself crazy start looking at Bolivar bands. Green shirt red shirt orange shirt, tan face pink face, green face... very inconsistent.

There were fake RASS here 3 years ago. Polish release. Easy to tell as they tasted like chemical infused cardboard.


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## hk3 (Jan 29, 2008)

Da Klugs said:


> If you really want to drive yourself crazy start looking at Bolivar bands. Green shirt red shirt orange shirt, tan face pink face, green face... very inconsistent.
> 
> There were fake RASS here 3 years ago. Polish release. Easy to tell as they *tasted like chemical infused cardboard*.


Yummy where can I get some of these? :r:r


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## pnoon (Jun 8, 2005)

hk3 said:


> Yummy where can I get some of these? :r:r


I believe there is a Premium Cigar Pass currently in progress.


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## hk3 (Jan 29, 2008)

pnoon said:


> I believe there *was* a Premium Cigar Pass in progress.


:ss


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## pnoon (Jun 8, 2005)

pnoon said:


> I believe there *was* a Premium Cigar Pass in progress.





hk3 said:


> :ss


Touché


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## SmokinApe (Jun 20, 2007)

Here is a band from Cubancigarwebsite.com, it's different from the others:



Note that is says "Cuba" on the left of the band, the others don't. This is supposed to be the band from 06 and on...


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## Puffy69 (Sep 8, 2005)

Da Klugs said:


> *If you really want to drive yourself crazy start looking at Bolivar bands. Green shirt red shirt orange shirt, tan face pink face, green face... very inconsistent*.
> 
> There were fake RASS here 3 years ago. Polish release. Easy to tell as they tasted like chemical infused cardboard.


:r i did, about 4 years ago..Damn inconsistancies..Never seen a band change so much and then there is upmann who changes their band completely every 3 yrs..lol.


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## SmokinApe (Jun 20, 2007)

Here is a scan of the band in question:


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## SmokinApe (Jun 20, 2007)

In this picture you can see the "cuba" on the right side of the first cigar:


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## Scimmia (Sep 22, 2006)

SmokinApe said:


> Here is a scan of the band in question:


I've got an RASCC band sitting here that looks exactly like that. From a reputable vendor, JUL 07 box.

Had one last night, smoked great.


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## cigarflip (Jul 4, 2004)

SmokinApe said:


> Here is a scan of the band in question:


Don't see any problem. I have a whole bunch that says habana on both ends and the only ones I see that have both habana and cuba are the edition regionals(estupendo, eminencia,benelux). Of course I don't have any that are 07s so I don't know what they look like.


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## NCRadioMan (Feb 28, 2005)

Here are two great threads on the differences in bands. Especially with Bolivar. It's good reading. You can never go by band alone.

http://www.clubstogie.com/vb/showthread.php?t=21277&highlight=Bolivar+fakes

http://www.clubstogie.com/vb/showthread.php?t=87296


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## D. Generate (Jul 1, 2004)

Fakes exist. They're like gravity, there is no escaping them. But you said 'reputable vendor'. It either is or isn't. A reputable vendor won't have fakes. 

Cuban QC is rubbish. A lot of variations in a lot of different ways. Trust the vendor or don't; a single pic of a band will never guarantee authenticity one way or the other.


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## SmokinApe (Jun 20, 2007)

While I agree it's best to buy from a trusted vendor ISO an untrusted one, anything can happen...

When a vendor operates in one country and ships from a shared warehouse on a different continent, anything can happen...

I am going to assume that not every vendor has top secret security clearance requirements for it's shipping clerks... I you are a "bad guy" who has access to fakes, where better to have a place to dump them then a "trusted vendor?"

Even the best restaurants serve a bad meal from time to time...

Now maybe the pictures on CA are not correct? But they got me wondering...


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## SmokinApe (Jun 20, 2007)

Take a guess where this one is from:



It's from just fakes....


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## SmokinApe (Jun 20, 2007)

Here is a pic from a RASS review for Sep 07 box code, I feel pretty good after seeing this:


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## The Professor (Jul 20, 2006)

SmokinApe said:


> While I agree it's best to buy from a trusted vendor ISO an untrusted one, anything can happen...
> 
> When a vendor operates in one country and ships from a shared warehouse on a different continent, anything can happen...
> 
> ...


You know ... I've heard this same bit of speculation from a number of people, recently, and think it's just trash. Pure and simple. If you don't know and trust the sourcing of your vendor, you have no business asserting you trust anything or not. Speculation about nefarious clerks without any evidence is just hogwash.

Not trying to take it out on you, oh King of the Grape Swishers; but you said it, so I'm responding.


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## NCRadioMan (Feb 28, 2005)

You are focusing, even obessing, on the band way too much, bro. 
:2


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## The Professor (Jul 20, 2006)

NCRadioMan said:


> You are focusing, even obessing, on the band way too much, bro.
> :2


:tpd:

Indeed.


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## Da Klugs (Jan 8, 2005)

Sean Connery is from Scotland.
He played a character from England.

Nicolas Cage is US born.
He played a character from the US.

Both were righteous criminals wrongly imprisoned.
Connery told Cage to look in a church for some excitement.

If what you read on the internet or see on TV was always true, now they both would know who shot JFK. :r

Wish I still had the pic... 20 bolis of different sizes and years with 16-17 variations on the bands.


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## floydpink (Feb 15, 2007)

I remember getting a little freaked out when I opened a box of RASS and noticed how different the wrapper colors were from each other.

The first couple puffs put my worried mind to rest.:ss


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## Da Klugs (Jan 8, 2005)

Found it... the wonderful world of Boli Bands....


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## dayplanner (Dec 11, 1997)

Every 2006 Ramon Allones Estupendos (Asian RE) that I've seen has had the above band with the more pronounced dimples, and all have come from a vendor beyond reproach.

It all comes down to trusting your vendor. Even the best of the best can have a slipup, but the chance of that happening is very rare.


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## The Professor (Jul 20, 2006)

Da Klugs said:


> Found it... the wonderful world of Boli Bands....


That's amazing, Dave. I'm sooooo saving that picture.


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## Sandman (Mar 26, 2006)

Da Klugs said:


> Found it... the wonderful world of Boli Bands....


I knew they were inconsistent, but.....................wow!


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## SmokinApe (Jun 20, 2007)

Sorry if I hit a nerve... I still stand by the premise that when dealing with people, anything can happen...



The Professor said:


> You know ... I've heard this same bit of speculation from a number of people, recently, and think it's just trash. Pure and simple. If you don't know and trust the sourcing of your vendor, you have no business asserting you trust anything or not. Speculation about nefarious clerks without any evidence is just hogwash.
> 
> Not trying to take it out on you, oh King of the Grape Swishers; but you said it, so I'm responding.


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## SmokinApe (Jun 20, 2007)

NCRadioMan said:


> You are focusing, even obessing, on the band way too much, bro.
> :2


Your are probably correct... Hey, I am new to this and wanted to seek the advice of those more experienced...


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## SmokinApe (Jun 20, 2007)

That pic of the Bolis is crazy... Thanks for posting it Dave...


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## Twill413 (Jul 19, 2006)

Da Klugs said:


> Found it... the wonderful world of Boli Bands....


Thanks Dave. Makes another good point as to why sourcing is so key.


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## pnoon (Jun 8, 2005)

Twill413 said:


> Thanks Dave. Makes another good point as to why sourcing is so key.


AND why drawing a fake/authentic conclusion based on the band alone is foolish.


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## Da Klugs (Jan 8, 2005)

Twill413 said:


> Thanks Dave. Makes another good point as to why sourcing is so key.


Which from my perspective is simple... Reputible vendors don't knowingly sell fakes. If the cigars you are buying are part of their normal order/procurement process it is virtually inconcievable that there could be fakes. One off sales where they might act as brokers/intermediatries is a different issue.

I have not personally experienced a cigar that I felt was fake that I took out of a box that I purchased from a trusted vendor. Every cigar I have deemed to be fake came to me from individuals. One of the links that NCR man provided made this point as well. What was purported initially was an assumption based upon what someone who sent (sold) the cigars to the questioning party represented. It turned out to not be the case. (They lied) It was just a cover up by the seller of fakes to divert attention from the truth. Which was polish release cubans suck.


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## 44MAG (Mar 9, 2008)

Lets remember Cuba's economy is in shambles, shortages of raw materials (even for bands) abound. Even though they take great pride in their product, variances in band, boxes, etc... do occur. As was said, the final test is always the cigar itself!:tu


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## D. Generate (Jul 1, 2004)

Dave summed it up well.

Except for the bit about Polish releases sucking. My 2008 Polish regional edition Guantanamera Piramides are smoking great!


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## The Professor (Jul 20, 2006)

D. Generate said:


> Dave summed it up well.
> 
> Except for the bit about Polish releases sucking. My 2008 Polish regional edition Guantanamera Piramides are smoking great!


That's not a cigar ... that's a *hot dog*!


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## Papichulo (Jan 21, 2007)

The Professor said:


> That's not a cigar ... that's a *hot dog*!


:r:r

now that is funny.


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## cigarflip (Jul 4, 2004)

Maybe I should start smoking NCs. If they're faked, they might turn out to be cubans.


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## rizzle (Mar 4, 2008)

Stupid question: So if you can't go by the bands, etc., and since they supposedly taste like:BS when they are new and not aged, how the hell do you know if the new box you just bought is real or not? 
As you can probably tell I don't know a whole lot about procuring them for myself. Just seems like a whole hell of a lot of worrying going on to me.

I'll hang up and listen.


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## pnoon (Jun 8, 2005)

rizzle said:


> Stupid question: So if you can't go by the bands, etc., and since they supposedly taste like:BS when they are new and not aged, how the hell do you know if the new box you just bought is real or not?
> As you can probably tell I don't know a whole lot about procuring them for myself. Just seems like a whole hell of a lot of worrying going on to me.
> 
> I'll hang up and listen.


First and foremost, if you have a vendor you trust, you won't have to worry.
Freshies, to me, don't taste like :BS. Unless you mean that earthy barnyard smell. The best advice I can give regarding determining authenticity (besides a trusted ventdor) is that you cannot necessarily make a determination on one factor alone (like the bands). O.K. the glass top Cohiba box is the exception.


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## rizzle (Mar 4, 2008)

Gotcha. I would venture a guess though, that you pretty much take a stab in the dark in finding that "trusted vendor". Like Vincent Vega said, you play with matches, you gonna get burned.


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## dayplanner (Dec 11, 1997)

rizzle said:


> Gotcha. I would venture a guess though, that you pretty much take a stab in the dark in finding that "trusted vendor". Like Vincent Vega said, you play with matches, you gonna get burned.


Alternatively, you could hang around the boards, contribute to the community, develop friendships, and who knows what will happen


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## rizzle (Mar 4, 2008)

carbonbased_al said:


> Alternatively, you could hang around the boards, contribute to the community, develop friendships, and who knows what will happen


I was thinking that might be a better alternative. All in time.


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## The Professor (Jul 20, 2006)

carbonbased_al said:


> Alternatively, you could hang around the boards, contribute to the community, develop friendships, and who knows what will happen


Since when did Joe become the voice of reason?!?   

That's exactly the right advice. :tu


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## dayplanner (Dec 11, 1997)

The Professor said:


> Since when did Joe become the voice of reason?!?
> 
> That's exactly the right advice. :tu


Slowly learning from pnoon I guess :ss


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## pnoon (Jun 8, 2005)

carbonbased_al said:


> Slowly learning from pnoon I guess :ss


Even a blind squirrel occasionally finds a nut or two.


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## justinphilly-cl (Sep 7, 2005)

Da Klugs said:


> Polish release..


Classic Klugs, totally classic!! :tu


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