# If you don't have a local B&M....get ready to be screwed....



## Davetopay (Jan 19, 2008)

Senate Passes PACT Act

This article doesn't mention pipe baccy specifically, but it might end up included. There are quotes talking about the banning of shipment of baccy via USPS, and general shipment of baccy across state lines.

I haven't had a chance to see the bill, or a detailed summary, but I'll bet it isn't good.:usa:


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## MattN (Dec 19, 2009)

Or, get ready to take off your tin foil hats...


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## GlassGuy (Feb 14, 2010)

as long as you have paid your tax on the tabacco there shouldnt be any issues with mailing the gov cannot even enforce this. or just use UPS of fedex


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## WWhermit (Nov 30, 2008)

GlassGuy said:


> as long as you have paid your tax on the tabacco there shouldnt be any issues with mailing the gov cannot even enforce this. or just use UPS of fedex


Sure it can. Passed in 2009, no tobacco can be mailed into Washington state. Passed by WA State Govt. :hurt:

WWhermit
ipe:


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## commonsenseman (Apr 18, 2008)

WWhermit said:


> Sure it can. Passed in 2009, no tobacco can be mailed into Washington state. Passed by WA State Govt. :hurt:
> 
> WWhermit
> ipe:


Yup. I better stock up on my bulk tobacco now, 99% of what I like isn't available locally.


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## GuitarDan (Nov 26, 2009)

So either the laws of interstate commerce become amended regarding one state taxing another's sales, or virtually all online/mail order is illegal? Outfits like 4noggins, Mars, pipes and cigars, etc... are all automatically ruined?

I can't quite fathom this on a Federal level...


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## Magnate (Nov 27, 2009)

WWhermit said:


> Sure it can. Passed in 2009, no tobacco can be mailed into Washington state. Passed by WA State Govt. :hurt:
> 
> WWhermit
> ipe:


I wonder how often the State government gets to look at federally protected mail?

I wonder if it's ever affected anyone...


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## Brinson (Oct 28, 2007)

The law specifically excludes cigars, and only includes cigarettes and roll your own cigarette tobacco. To the letter, pipe tobacco should not be included in this law.


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## Magnate (Nov 27, 2009)

Oh yeah, look at that... it's not in the law regarding the ban (RCW 70.155.140) it's in the definitions (RCW 70.155.010 (6) )


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## Verschnupft (Jun 15, 2009)

Wasn't it already illegal to sell cigarettes over the internet/mailorder?


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## smelvis (Sep 7, 2009)

Verschnupft said:


> Wasn't it already illegal to sell cigarettes over the internet/mailorder?


It is here in WA. and to agree with Chris, They are lucky to have a line of ten to fifteen people waiting, who is going to open these packages?


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## DSturg369 (Apr 6, 2008)

My advice is unchanged.... Stock up NOW! Another tidbit of advice, if you haven't already done so, is to find an OTC or "drugstore" brand/blend you like and can find locally.


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## MarkC (Jul 4, 2009)

I honestly feel right now that pipe smokers have a grace period in the tobacco wars; I'm not as nervous as I was. I also honestly feel that if I don't take advantage of that grace period and stock up, I'm a fool...


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## BrSpiritus (Apr 9, 2009)

MarkC said:


> I honestly feel right now that pipe smokers have a grace period in the tobacco wars; I'm not as nervous as I was. I also honestly feel that if I don't take advantage of that grace period and stock up, I'm a fool...


I'm 36 years old and intend on living a long a fruitful life, so stocking up until I die will only take about all my paychecks this year. Honestly this is a self feeding nightmare, sit back, relax and smoke a bowl before going insane. November is a long ways away from now and the Dems can do alot of damage before then, if they do pass this shite I intend on lobbying my Senator to repeal it along with the schip taxes after the Republicans reclaim congress. I wonder how they intend to enforce it if they do pass it? ATF raids on internet tobacco merchants? I do have a B&M shop nearby but with a name like Cigar Landing you can tell pipes and tobacco are there as an afterthought. As a matter of fact I remember they have more Shisha than pipe tobacco. I really miss Davidus Cigars in Maryland, they had every tin of pipe tobacco known to mankind in that store.

BrSpiritus


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## kvv098 (Mar 16, 2010)

I am stocking up. Local stores have lots of stuff I don't care for and almost nothing I like. I hope tobacco will not be illegal to smoke for some years to come.


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## MarkC (Jul 4, 2009)

BrSpiritus said:


> Honestly this is a self feeding nightmare, sit back, relax and smoke a bowl before going insane.


If you can't go insane on the internet, where_ can_ you go insane?


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## Uelrindru (Mar 16, 2010)

Guys this is only impacting people if the place you buy from doesn't follow the law and submit the forms and tax information to the state they are shipping to. Most of the online sites are ALREADY required to do this. The only thing this changes is it now applies to indian reservations in addition and it explictly excludes cigars. It never mentioned pipe tobacco at all on any of it's renditions. 
I don't know about how this applies to international orders... I would think it doesn't but I'm not sure and IMNAL so I don't know.


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## Mister Entertainer (Oct 7, 2009)

I think we need to panic more. I'm also going to build a bombproof shelter, buy many guns because the govt is going to take those away too right? And stock up on beer and prescription drugs because Obama wants to take all of that away right? I'm also going to go ahead and choose Obama as my favored scapegoat to blame for anything. I love people thatg only see one side of everything. Sorry about my rant, I just don't think we need to be freakin out too much.


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## Uelrindru (Mar 16, 2010)

You could have a point, we could make the walls of the shelter out of tobacco tins, face them inwards so you can open them without ruining your wall and you'd be all set.


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## Dan-Hur (Feb 26, 2010)

Mister Entertainer said:


> I think we need to panic more. I'm also going to build a bombproof shelter, buy many guns because the govt is going to take those away too right? And stock up on beer and prescription drugs because Obama wants to take all of that away right? I'm also going to go ahead and choose Obama as my favored scapegoat to blame for anything. I love people thatg only see one side of everything. Sorry about my rant, I just don't think we need to be freakin out too much.


Ever hear the expression "give them an inch, they take a mile"? What you're saying was probably said when the first of any form of nanny-state governance was introduced. Talking about slippery slopes, the one labeled "legislation" is the steepest. I'm *SO* tired of hearing "oh, what's the big deal? It's just this one little thing." It was that one little thing fourteen trillion dollars ago and it'll be that one little thing when we remember with fondness that comparably tiny amount. By the way, speaking of favored scapegoats, whose name do you see posted to every twenty-first century woe?


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## Uelrindru (Mar 16, 2010)

But they're already doing this, the only thing this does is ammend an earlier act to include indian reservations, specifically exclude cigars and give it more teeth. It will NOT effect websites that are adhering to the Jenkins act already because that's what the Jenkins act did.... they aren't trying to crush our souls, they're eliminating a loophole.


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## drastic_quench (Sep 12, 2008)

Uelrindru said:


> But they're already doing this, the only thing this does is ammend an earlier act to include indian reservations, specifically exclude cigars and give it more teeth. It will NOT effect websites that are adhering to the Jenkins act already because that's what the Jenkins act did.... they aren't trying to crush our souls, they're eliminating a loophole.


How dare you be sensible and rational!


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## Mister Entertainer (Oct 7, 2009)

drastic_quench said:


> How dare you be sensible and rational!


You sir, just made my day.


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## Mad Hatter (Apr 8, 2007)

Uelrindru said:


> But they're already doing this, the only thing this does is ammend an earlier act to include indian reservations, specifically exclude cigars and give it more teeth. It will NOT effect websites that are adhering to the Jenkins act already because that's what the Jenkins act did.... they aren't trying to crush our souls, they're eliminating a loophole.


Oh, really?............... Hmmm

OMG!!! I can't believe the American people are letting this happen. What the........ *panic* OMG! I'm running out right now to buy anything and everything I can get my hands on.


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## Dan-Hur (Feb 26, 2010)

Mad Hatter said:


> Oh, really?............... Hmmm
> 
> OMG!!! I can't believe the American people are letting this happen. What the........ *panic* OMG! I'm running out right now to buy anything and everything I can get my hands on.


Yes, let's try to pretend(with sarcasm, YAY!) that governments never get out of hand with legislation.


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## Brinson (Oct 28, 2007)

Actually, it does more than amend the Jenkins act. One of the revisions disallows selling of cigarettes and RYO tobacco online or mail order completely. Still, for pipes and cigars, it does nothing but tighten regulation and enforcement.


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## Mad Hatter (Apr 8, 2007)

Dan-Hur said:


> Yes, let's try to pretend(with sarcasm, YAY!) that governments never get out of hand with legislation.


No, I'd rather pretend I really don't give a flying ****. Times change and I adapt. Its life. Suck it up and drive on.


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## Dan-Hur (Feb 26, 2010)

Mad Hatter said:


> No, I'd rather pretend I really don't give a flying ****. Times change and I adapt. Its life. Suck it up and drive on.


A truly nonsensical reply.


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## Stan41 (Sep 30, 2009)

In my opinion it will become illegal to send tobacco by USPS, UPS, or Fedex. The only way tobacco can be shipped will be by motor freight (like whiskey) and then only to a licensed wholesaler. I don't know when this will happen, but probably sooner than later.

Meanwhile, I'm 68 and with the arrival of 4 more pounds of tobacco via USPS yesterday I consider my cellar complete. (actually under my bed) I am pretty sure I have enough tobacco to last the rest of my life unless my house burns. In the future I may occasionally order a tin or two of something I haven't tried, but no substantial orders.

Stan


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## Mad Hatter (Apr 8, 2007)

Dan-Hur said:


> A truly nonsensical reply.


Ok dude. You got it. I don't have enough things in my life that concern me so I need to worry every day of my life about what might be. Hell, its better than worrying about the fact that there's nothing I can do about it. While I'm busy pretending I'll pretend I like this forum as much as I did before someone hung the "Whiners Wanted" sign out front. I'll also pretend that the friendly banter and normal postings still go one here and haven't seen a sharp drop off because some people are so freaking sad they have to go everywhere and try to make everyone else as unhappy as they themselves are. Thank you and all the other whiners for bringing your stupid drama to the pipe forum.


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## commonsenseman (Apr 18, 2008)

Whoa, getting heavy in here!

While I think it's definately something to be concerned about, I don't think talking about it does anything. I'm all about action. If crap like this gets passed, we need to try to campain against those that voted for it & for those that voted against it. Get these jokers out of office.

My .02


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## MarkC (Jul 4, 2009)

I'm glad to see it get heavy. Does this mean we can actually start following the forum rules and leave the politics out of it? That would certainly be an improvement. At the very least, people (yes, Davetopay, you are a major culprit lately) could do us the courtesy of posting threads like this in the tobacco legislation forum where it belongs.


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## Dan-Hur (Feb 26, 2010)

Mad Hatter said:


> Ok dude. You got it. I don't have enough things in my life that concern me so I need to worry every day of my life about what might be. Hell, its better than worrying about the fact that there's nothing I can do about it. While I'm busy pretending I'll pretend I like this forum as much as I did before someone hung the "Whiners Wanted" sign out front. I'll also pretend that the friendly banter and normal postings still go one here and haven't seen a sharp drop off because some people are so freaking sad they have to go everywhere and try to make everyone else as unhappy as they themselves are. Thank you and all the other whiners for bringing your stupid drama to the pipe forum.


Wow, bud, an impressive display. I don't appreciate sarcasm when it comes to stuff like this just because it happens so often. My tolerance for this crap has gone down in recent years, what else can I say? Do I have other stuff in my life that worries me more than some tobacco legislation? Absolutely. However, I saw the post and since it's just one in a long line of things like it, I couldn't help but throw in my own. Why not? Everyone else is. That's what it's for, isn't it? I didn't even notice that it was in the pipe forum. Perhaps it should be moved to the tobacco legislation forum, instead. Either way, I didn't start this thread and nothing forced you to participate in it. I intend to go on as if this thread never happened except for when I'm posting in it because I like this site. The subject concerns me and, obviously, it concerned you enough to throw your two cents into the jar. For the record, I don't smoke a pipe, cigarettes or use chewing tobacco. I don't drink, either, but I still get pissed off when more unnecessary laws get passed that really only serve as the basis for some puffed up politician's next campaign ad.


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## Mad Hatter (Apr 8, 2007)

commonsenseman said:


> Whoa, getting heavy in here!
> 
> While I think it's definately something to be concerned about, I don't think talking about it does anything. I'm all about action. If crap like this gets passed, we need to try to campain against those that voted for it & for those that voted against it. Get these jokers out of office.
> 
> My .02





MarkC said:


> I'm glad to see it get heavy. Does this mean we can actually start following the forum rules and leave the politics out of it? That would certainly be an improvement. At the very least, people (yes, Davetopay, you are a major culprit lately) could do us the courtesy of posting threads like this in the tobacco legislation forum where it belongs.


Sorry guys. The block user button only accomplishes so much. I've been busy lately and haven't been here much but it never looks like I missed much more than the rehashing of the same old news and the influx of more disgruntled souls.


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## Dan-Hur (Feb 26, 2010)

MarkC said:


> I'm glad to see it get heavy. Does this mean we can actually start following the forum rules and leave the politics out of it? That would certainly be an improvement. At the very least, people (yes, Davetopay, you are a major culprit lately) could do us the courtesy of posting threads like this in the tobacco legislation forum where it belongs.





commonsenseman said:


> Whoa, getting heavy in here!
> 
> While I think it's definately something to be concerned about, I don't think talking about it does anything. I'm all about action. If crap like this gets passed, we need to try to campain against those that voted for it & for those that voted against it. Get these jokers out of office.
> 
> My .02


Just saw these. I'm sorry that it got heated and I agree that it needs to be in a different area of Puff where the "whiner's club" can meet and not bother others. Like I said, though, I didn't notice that it was in the pipe forum.


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## Mister Entertainer (Oct 7, 2009)

All of this bickering is making me feel salty and its not even directed towards meh...


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## GreatBonsai (Jun 30, 2008)

Mad Hatter said:


> Ok dude. You got it. I don't have enough things in my life that concern me so I need to worry every day of my life about what might be. Hell, its better than worrying about the fact that there's nothing I can do about it. While I'm busy pretending I'll pretend I like this forum as much as I did before someone hung the "Whiners Wanted" sign out front. I'll also pretend that the friendly banter and normal postings still go one here and haven't seen a sharp drop off because some people are so freaking sad they have to go everywhere and try to make everyone else as unhappy as they themselves are. Thank you and all the other whiners for bringing your stupid drama to the pipe forum.


Seconded. Seriously, shouldn't this thread have been a continuance of the other thread about the possibility of this being passed that was started a few days ago? Do we really need to clutter the board with the proverbial 'falling sky' posts? Yes, laws are being passed. Yes, it makes tobacco more difficult to buy. So what are you going to DO about it? Post in an obscure niche forum (as government and legislation is concerned)? Blog about it? Complain until your throat is raw, and your pipe empty? Or are you actually going to call your congressman and have them DO something? If you want to go that route, do it now. Don't wait until pipe tobacco is unable to be shipped, because then it will be far too late. It's FAR easier to prevent a law from being passed than to get it repealed.

/rant

Edit: Whoops, didn't see the 3rd page...


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## BrSpiritus (Apr 9, 2009)

First there was SCHIP and the masses heard about raised taxes and panicked...
And there were shortages throughout the land.

Then there even more shortages, rumours of shortages and production cutbacks...
And the masses panicked buying all they could see.

Then there was HR2069 a rumoured 775% increase in pipe tobacco tax...
And the masses panicked buying all they could see.

And now there is PACT, and the masses panicked. Much blood was spilt that day of swords
and spears and uncounted tears as the pipe tobacco hoarders fought and died
over the last tin of Prince Albert on the shelf. 

And so what do we learn? SCHIP raised taxes a little, the early shortages were temporary but after the buying spree when e-tailers came back in stock there were really shortages especially among boutique tobacco companies but it is not across the board, many tins are still in stock you're only screwed if you want most SG tins or Penzance. Honestly I have some Penzance cellared but I don't understand what all the woo-woo is about over this brand. So then there was HR2069 which has died in comittee and now PACT which does what exactly? Does anyone know? It's really going after cigarettes not pipe tobacco. So the e-tailers are the ones benefitting from all this through increased panic selling. 

You know what I want? A tobacco party like the tea party. Every company blantantly labeling cigarette rolling tobacco as "Pipe tobacco" we should take their product and burn it. Yes D&R tobacco I'm aiming at you! You started this BS about relabeling tobacco to avoid the tax thinking you were so effen clever but I knew in my heart what the end result would be. If I want to roll a cigarette I will buy a pouch of Drum at the local B&M and pay the SCHIP. It's still cheaper than buying a pack of cigarettes.

Ok rant OFF.

BrSpiritus


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## Uelrindru (Mar 16, 2010)

It only stops the mail of tobacco products for places that don't follow the tax reporting the WTF thread has it all spelled out I won't repost it. Stop freaking out this isn't stopping anyone that hasn't been doing it illegally already. Not even cigarettes


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## phinz (Jan 5, 2010)

WWhermit said:


> Sure it can. Passed in 2009, no tobacco can be mailed into Washington state. Passed by WA State Govt. :hurt:
> 
> WWhermit
> ipe:


What about strawman mailings... :mischief:


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## Rascal (Jan 29, 2010)

I have never seen the purpose in complaining about legislation on a message board. Other than using this medium to be informed whatever energy you intend to spend on this should be directed at your elected officials. If you don't have a file folder full of mostly form letter responses from your representatives, IMO, you don't have a right to complain.

With that said, whatever comes comes. I don't believe in making things appear worse than they are. If, eventually, my selection is limited again I figured I survived it once I can survive it again. This hobby was around long before the internets.


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## Alpedhuez55 (Dec 16, 2005)

Rascal said:


> I have never seen the purpose in complaining about legislation on a message board. Other than using this medium to be informed whatever energy you intend to spend on this should be directed at your elected officials. If you don't have a file folder full of mostly form letter responses from your representatives, IMO, you don't have a right to complain.
> 
> With that said, whatever comes comes. I don't believe in making things appear worse than they are. If, eventually, my selection is limited again I figured I survived it once I can survive it again. This hobby was around long before the internets.


It is about making people aware. How many newspapers are going to write about these kinds of bills? You usually hear about something like this on a trade site.

If a few people actually take a few minutes of time to call or write their representatives, it will help. I posted about the proposed 775% increase in Pipe Tobacco and several people sent letters to their congressmen and their congressmen's reply. I still would not be surprised to see them try to tack on that Pipe Tobacco tax to another bill as an Ammendment.

I think the bickering about it is a waste of time. But unfortunately for the most part, it largely one party that is trying to increase tobacco taxes. And if you attack that party, it puts some people on the defensive.


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## Dan-Hur (Feb 26, 2010)

Rascal said:


> I have never seen the purpose in complaining about legislation on a message board. Other than using this medium to be informed whatever energy you intend to spend on this should be directed at your elected officials. If you don't have a file folder full of mostly form letter responses from your representatives, IMO, you don't have a right to complain.
> 
> With that said, whatever comes comes. I don't believe in making things appear worse than they are. If, eventually, my selection is limited again I figured I survived it once I can survive it again. This hobby was around long before the internets.


It's possible to do both. It's not like it takes more than five minutes to throw out a post on these kinds of things. I wrote a letter, signed a petition and managed to write something about it on Puff. And as the guy above me said, I wouldn't have known anything about this if someone hadn't put it on here. And the whole "what happens, happens" thing is really just an excuse to be lazy. Do we really want another Prohibition? With that attitude, it really is only a matter of time before something like that happens again. Yes, I can live without cigars but the whole point of a free society is that the government isn't supposed to be able to control how you live your life. Taxes like these are used exactly for that purpose. It's just easier to get people to accept a tax over a ban.


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## Rascal (Jan 29, 2010)

Alpedhuez55 said:


> It is about making people aware. How many newspapers are going to write about these kinds of bills? You usually hear about something like this on a trade site.


If you reread my comment I support using this medium to make people aware but going on to complain about it is wasted energy especially if that is all someone does. The thread should be a call to arms not a sounding board.


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## Rascal (Jan 29, 2010)

Dan-Hur said:


> It's possible to do both. It's not like it takes more than five minutes to throw out a post on these kinds of things. I wrote a letter, signed a petition and managed to write something about it on Puff. And as the guy above me said, I wouldn't have known anything about this if someone hadn't put it on here. *And the whole "what happens, happens" thing is really just an excuse to be lazy.* Do we really want another Prohibition? With that attitude, it really is only a matter of time before something like that happens again. Yes, I can live without cigars but the whole point of a free society is that the government isn't supposed to be able to control how you live your life. Taxes like these are used exactly for that purpose. It's just easier to get people to accept a tax over a ban.


I disagree with that statement completely. Accepting failure as a possibility doesn't mean doing nothing. It just means that despite your best efforts it may not turn out the way you want so keep it in perspective.


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## Dan-Hur (Feb 26, 2010)

Rascal said:


> I disagree with that statement completely. Accepting failure as a possibility doesn't mean doing nothing. It just means that despite your best efforts it may not turn out the way you want so keep it in perspective.


I'm not saying you specifically since you appear to be active but a lot of my friends and people I've spoken with(mostly in the twenties range.) have that attitude. It's the "it doesn't effect me, so I don't care" kind of people that really get on my nerves. A lot of this stuff really isn't going to effect me at all but I care because it's only a matter of time before my number does come up. I hate being in a room with thirty people my age and only two of them give a damn about what goes on outside of Facebook or what have you.


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## gibson_es (Jan 23, 2010)

soon enough, cigars from that island south of miami will be cheaper and easier to obtain......if its not already!


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## phatmax (Mar 18, 2009)

Davetopay said:


> Senate Passes PACT Act
> 
> This article doesn't mention pipe baccy specifically, but it might end up included. There are quotes talking about the banning of shipment of baccy via USPS, and general shipment of baccy across state lines.
> 
> I haven't had a chance to see the bill, or a detailed summary, but I'll bet it isn't good.:usa:


The only thing this does is kill internet business and FORCE MORE TAXES TO BE COLLECTED.

That is all they care about. Money money money... From the wallet of the American who works for a living.


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