# So how many have tried an Undercrown yet?



## Richterscale (Jan 8, 2011)

I tried one of the robustos this weekend and I hate to say it but I think I actually preferred it to most of the Liga Privadas! I'll have to smoke a few more just in case I was starstruck lol but it was REALLY smooth and tasty.


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## loki993 (Sep 25, 2010)

I had the Gordo 6x60 this weekend. Not my preferred vitola but that's all they had. I liked it a lot. Cant say I liked it more then a T52, but very very good. I will have to smoke more and some different vitolas to see if it can knock down the big boys lol. 

To me it seemed like something in between the T52 and the #9. Kinda the cocoa sweetness and leather from the T52 and the spice from the #9. 

Maybe I'm crazy, My palate is not the best because of my sinuses, but did anyone else get some Dirty Rat?


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## Richterscale (Jan 8, 2011)

Yeah man I tend to agree with you.. try one of the smaller RGs.. it really mellows. This is box-worthy.


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## szyzk (Nov 27, 2010)

Going to smoke a robusto today! It was gifted to me by a customer and I'm definitely interested in trying it!


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## Richterscale (Jan 8, 2011)

Let me know what you think, Andrew! Especially since the boobie prize for having the worst Fantasy Football team in your league will be a box of them.. 

;-)


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## szyzk (Nov 27, 2010)

Haha, I don`t even want to talk about FF... My team is 4-2 but they`re playing above themselves, and most of my wins came from my opponents having bad weeks. The Undercrown is good though I`m finding it a bit one-dimensional. I`ve sort of moved away from LP/DE in the last few months, but I want to pick up a few more of these and let them sit for a while.


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## Richterscale (Jan 8, 2011)

I definitely agree about it being one dimensional but man I love that dimension.. I feel the same way about the higher end la auroras.


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## deep (Mar 13, 2009)

I want to try one of the smaller RG of these - hopefully this weekend. Keep posting your thoughs guys, thanks!


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## Dread (Oct 16, 2009)

Im heading up to NH on Thursday so Ill definitely grab some when I'm up there


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## Richterscale (Jan 8, 2011)

You won't be disappointed me thinks! I forgot to add.. My robusto burned for nearly 2 hours.. I was puffing fairly slow but that's still impressive.


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## Dread (Oct 16, 2009)

I didnt realize youre in Bristol. Im in west CT all the time, have you been to the new shop in Southington yet? I have a meeting there on Thursday.


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## Richterscale (Jan 8, 2011)

Dread said:


> I didnt realize youre in Bristol. Im in west CT all the time, have you been to the new shop in Southington yet? I have a meeting there on Thursday.


Fire and Smoke? Yeah I think you and I chatted briefly about it a couple of months ago! What time you gonna be there Thursday? Last time I was there I was asking about your sticks!


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## Dread (Oct 16, 2009)

Richterscale said:


> Fire and Smoke? Yeah I think you and I chatted briefly about it a couple of months ago! What time you gonna be there Thursday? Last time I was there I was asking about your sticks!


There is a place that just opened a few months ago called Micky Blakes, its 4500 sq ft or something along those lines. Real nice looking place.


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## gator_79 (Sep 16, 2009)

I ordered 3 of the beli's but I won't get to smoke one until Dec, when I return home from deployment.


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## Richterscale (Jan 8, 2011)

Dread said:


> There is a place that just opened a few months ago called Micky Blakes, its 4500 sq ft or something along those lines. Real nice looking place.


Wow I just checked out the site.. that place is beautiful! What time you gonna be there? Good luck man!!


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## rjacobs (Aug 9, 2011)

Where can these be found online? My google-fu is failing me.


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## Marlboro Cigars-cl (Feb 19, 2007)

I wish but cigar budget is done until December.
:cb


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## Hot Lips (Dec 28, 2009)

loki993 said:


> To me it seemed like something in between the T52 and the #9. Kinda the cocoa sweetness and leather from the T52 and the spice from the #9.
> 
> Maybe I'm crazy, My palate is not the best because of my sinuses, but did anyone else get some Dirty Rat?


This is exactly how it was described to us at IPCPR - I like it more than the 52 and less than the 9. We had tunnel issues with the only two robustos smoked, but we're on that with research right now. The others have all been great so far.


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## rhetorik (Jun 6, 2011)

I would also like to know where you guys are getting these. B&M Only? Online?


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## Hot Lips (Dec 28, 2009)

rjacobs said:


> Where can these be found online? My google-fu is failing me.


we don't have them online - but you can call 417-886-8380 if you don't find them elsewhere. We ship out every morning


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## primetime76 (Feb 8, 2011)

Dread said:


> Im heading up to NH on Thursday so Ill definitely grab some when I'm up there


You should come to Undun in West Lebanon, NH...would love to see your product on their shelves...they just built a gigantic humi ad are looking to fill it!


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## castaweb (Apr 24, 2011)

I have not had the chance to smoke one yet but I can say that the Undercrowns are one of the best smelling cigars I have ever sniffed. I can't wait to light this thing up.


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## Richterscale (Jan 8, 2011)

Yeah the tunneling issues were non-existent for me. That thing burned razor sharp for almost 2 hours. Unreal.. 

You can find them online all over the place but I suggest you give Hot Lips a call!


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## Richterscale (Jan 8, 2011)

Brett your PM box is full! lol ;-)


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## raycarlo (Apr 25, 2011)

Picked up a Belicoso and a Gran toro today, would like to let them rest a week but that might be difficult, the smell soooo yummy, I'll let you know what I think when I get to them. I picked them up at my local B&M, they had a box each of 4 sizes I think they were $8.45 for the Belicoso and Gran toro, the other two larger sizes I don't recall the prices but if anyone is having problems getting a hold of them I could pick some up and send to you at cost.


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## Dread (Oct 16, 2009)

Richterscale said:


> Brett your PM box is full! lol ;-)


Just emptied it Jason, sorry bout that


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## Hot Lips (Dec 28, 2009)

Richterscale said:


> Yeah the tunneling issues were non-existent for me. That thing burned razor sharp for almost 2 hours. Unreal..
> 
> You can find them online all over the place but I suggest you give Hot Lips a call!


We had at least 5 more smoked today with no issues


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## szyzk (Nov 27, 2010)

Hot Lips said:


> We had at least 5 more smoked today with no issues


The one I smoked, and the two that I saw smoked, were pretty much okay. My wrapper needed a few jumpstarts but it was nothing that took away from the cigar.


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## Blacklog_angler (Apr 30, 2010)

Received my box of Gran Toro's today and smoking the first as I type. The burn is razor sharp with no touch up's with tons of smoke and a nice draw. They do seem to last longer than a similar cigar of the same size. Taste has some cream, spice and is extremely smooth. I wouldn't say I like it more than the LP9 but its hanging right there with it.

Definitly box worthy and for those looking I got mine at Famous Smoke. They had all Vitollas in stock as of a day or so ago.


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## kozzman555 (Sep 10, 2011)

Is this a limited run or a regular production? Should I grab a box now, or will I be able to wait a bit?


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## Dread (Oct 16, 2009)

Regular run so you should be able to wait. But at the same time T52 and 9 were supposed to be regular production although not high volume and boxes are getting harder and harder to come by.


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## Richterscale (Jan 8, 2011)

kozzman555 said:


> Is this a limited run or a regular production? Should I grab a box now, or will I be able to wait a bit?


Well I think it's restricted based on the wrappers. But there should be much more available that LP's.


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## Blacklog_angler (Apr 30, 2010)

kozzman555 said:


> Is this a limited run or a regular production? Should I grab a box now, or will I be able to wait a bit?


I think they are regular production but for how hard it is to find LP9s anymore I just bought a box.


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## Hot Lips (Dec 28, 2009)

We were told they will be easier to come by


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## NoShhhSherlock (Mar 30, 2011)

I have not tried one of these but hopefully will sometime.


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## bigslowrock (May 9, 2010)

I'm looking forward to giving them a try. Just got to get my hands on them


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## castaweb (Apr 24, 2011)

Had a small herf with Danfish and Probate Geek last night and smoked one of the Undercrowns. I was impressed. Not super complex but great flavor and burned like a champ.


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## primetime76 (Feb 8, 2011)

Anxiously awaiting an opportunity to try them! I am sure that they will be readily available soon enough...


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## Johnnie (Aug 28, 2011)

rjacobs said:


> Where can these be found online? My google-fu is failing me.


They are listed at cigar.com


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## szyzk (Nov 27, 2010)

We have a bunch of these in stock right now. It waits to be seen, but I would guess that they'll be a little more commonplace than the 9s & 52s have been.

That said, we're starting to catch back up with the LPs. We've had at least two sizes of each in stock for quite a while now because shipments to us aren't spaced as far apart. Seems like Liga's production is catching up.


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## raycarlo (Apr 25, 2011)

OK couldn't wait, smoking the Gran toro right now and so far so good, ridiculous amounts of tasty smoke.


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## szyzk (Nov 27, 2010)

raycarlo said:


> OK couldn't wait, smoking the Gran toro right now and so far so good, ridiculous amounts of tasty smoke.


This cigar put out almost the same amount of smoke as the La Casita Criolla I smoked a day earlier. Both filled the entire room with thick clouds!


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## BDog (Oct 19, 2010)

Both the Belicoso and Gran Toro were exactly what I expected from reading the reviews. Changing the wrapper really did give the Undercrowns a more unique flavor profile. As stated , very one dimensional , but not a boring or tiresome dimension. Can we chalk this up as a good blend from the rollers who were forced to improvise and come up with something tasty without using up all the Liga wrappers?


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## Richterscale (Jan 8, 2011)

I'll tell you what.. I'd rather have a box of Undercrown right now over the LP. Maybe I'm just starstruck for a moment.. maybe it's just good and new but I would honestly chose the UC right this moment.


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## Staxed (Oct 16, 2011)

Just got an email that these are in stock at the local B&M, think I might head out there today and pick one up...see how they are for a noob.


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## Engineer99 (Aug 4, 2011)

Just picked up a double corona as well as a few of the other new offerings from Tatuaje( Fausto, TAA) and plan to put fire to them this weekend. From all the glowing reviews, Saturday can't get here fast enough.


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## Richterscale (Jan 8, 2011)

Nice! And I gotta say.. with you living in San Leandro you've got us all beat for ambiance! I visited a friend there about 10 years ago. It was beautiful.


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## Mutombo (Aug 3, 2010)

Just picked up a beli at a local shop. Overpaid for it but I wanted to try one before buying more.


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## Richterscale (Jan 8, 2011)

Mutombo said:


> Just picked up a beli at a local shop. Overpaid for it but I wanted to try one before buying more.


I think you're going to like it, Justin! Hope all is well bro.


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## Staxed (Oct 16, 2011)

Just picked one up myself, didn't make it back home in time to smoke it tonight as I have other plans, but tomorrow it shall be done  looking forward to it from all the good reviews.


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## Richterscale (Jan 8, 2011)

I've got a Belicoso in my cooler and I think I'll do that one tomorrow.. after my Federal Rosado in the morning!


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## mata777 (Jul 11, 2011)

I need to try these.


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## JPinDC (Feb 14, 2008)

Would there be much of a difference in profile from the 5x50 to the 6x50? The reason I am asking is that the price diffference is almost negligible but I want to have the size that captures the stick at its best.

jp


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## crazystix (Oct 13, 2011)

JPinDC said:


> Would there be much of a difference in profile from the 5x50 to the 6x50? The reason I am asking is that the price diffference is almost negligible but I want to have the size that captures the stick at its best.
> 
> jp


Undercrown is not available in those sizes. The Toro is 6x52 and the Robusto is 5x54. I would expect that they have similar, but not exactly the same profile since they have different ring guage sizes and not same ratio of tobacco to wrapper. I have a box of Toros but have not smoked one yet.


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## stock93pgt (Jan 3, 2011)

just an fyi, ive been keeping an eye on that new cigarsprintsale site from cigar.com and seen the under crown grand something on there a 10 pack. forget how much they went for but they been really good prices on all their stuff. i havent gotten any yet due to daughters bday coming up and spending $$$ there lol. she comes before my hobby. well at this point everything comes before my hobby. but on a better note, my disability was approved this week! so ill be able to buy some sticks soon at ease! didnt know how disabled you have to be to get it! my whole right side is outta whack due to a stroke i had 6 months ago.


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## Johnnie (Aug 28, 2011)

stock93pgt said:


> just an fyi, ive been keeping an eye on that new cigarsprintsale site from cigar.com and seen the under crown grand something on there a 10 pack. forget how much they went for but they been really good prices on all their stuff. i havent gotten any yet due to daughters bday coming up and spending $$$ there lol. she comes before my hobby. well at this point everything comes before my hobby. but on a better note, my disability was approved this week! so ill be able to buy some sticks soon at ease! didnt know how disabled you have to be to get it! my whole right side is outta whack due to a stroke i had 6 months ago.


Very good dad! I know how difficult it can be to resist. Sorry to hear about the stroke. I wish you a speedy and full recovery. Pretty scary stuff. I hope that the disability will be enough to ease the finical end enough that you can just focus on your family and on getting better.

Best wishes,
JohnnieSavage


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## JPinDC (Feb 14, 2008)

crazystix said:


> Undercrown is not available in those sizes. The Toro is 6x52 and the Robusto is 5x54. I would expect that they have similar, but not exactly the same profile since they have different ring guage sizes and not same ratio of tobacco to wrapper. I have a box of Toros but have not smoked one yet.


Yes, you are correct and I know what the ratios mean. I was confused. The MUWAT is 5x60,6x60 and 7x60.


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## Rwatkins5 (Oct 16, 2011)

Love the double corona the best . Cigar has good flavor , mild strength, lots of smoke like a Drity Rat . Smoking one right now with morning coffee . If you like liga you won't be disappointed . Will buy more .


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## stock93pgt (Jan 3, 2011)

so is this a high nic smoke?


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## Richterscale (Jan 8, 2011)

stock93pgt said:


> so is this a high nic smoke?


I haven't found it to be so.. then again I have never had a cigar I found to have too much so I'm likely a bad judge of this.


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## Rwatkins5 (Oct 16, 2011)

Not high nicotine


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## Hot Lips (Dec 28, 2009)

The DC especially is a smoke bomb like the 9 - -which I love


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## stock93pgt (Jan 3, 2011)

well then, i might get a 10 pack soon! well i was sold when i was watching the ipcpr video that the ************ boys did on Jonathan drew this yr


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## Truebigmike75 (Aug 27, 2011)

i went to 6 of my local B&M shops today i not one of them are carrying them yet


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## Hot Lips (Dec 28, 2009)

Truebigmike75 said:


> i went to 6 of my local B&M shops today i not one of them are carrying them yet


We aren't far from you and ours just came in - so you may have some arrive there soon. You could also schedule a road trip...


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## Staxed (Oct 16, 2011)

Well, I just got done with mine a little while ago, about an hour and 15 minutes smoke (I probably smoked it too fast though)...it was extremely enjoyable. Best cigar I've had yet (though, that's not shocking as I haven't had much).

Was even good enough for me to do a noob review


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## Richterscale (Jan 8, 2011)

Staxed said:


> Well, I just got done with mine a little while ago, about an hour and 15 minutes smoke (I probably smoked it too fast though)...it was extremely enjoyable. Best cigar I've had yet (though, that's not shocking as I haven't had much).
> 
> Was even good enough for me to do a noob review


Nice!! Glad you enjoyed it too! They really knocked it out of the park with this one.


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## Truebigmike75 (Aug 27, 2011)

Hot Lips said:


> We aren't far from you and ours just came in - so you may have some arrive there soon. You could also schedule a road trip...


God i hope so....maybe i will have to make a road trip down to springfield. Have not been down there i a couple year since all my friends are now graduated.


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## Staxed (Oct 16, 2011)

Richterscale said:


> Nice!! Glad you enjoyed it too! They really knocked it out of the park with this one.


They certainly did, I'm sitting here wishing I had another one already, and can't wait to get a box to age, I can just imagine how they might be a year from now.


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## Bravo_Kilo (Aug 19, 2011)

Smoking one now from my fiver that I got from HopperB. So far it's delicious! Very No. 9ish (which I love), but with less body. Lots of aromatic smoke that never over powers. The burn is a little jagged at times with some propensity to tunnel down towards the band. Ahouldn't be a problem with adequate rest. I'd say these are box worthy. The flavor profile is right in my wheelhouse.


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## jbgd825 (Aug 26, 2011)

So I don't keep up with release info as much as others do but will these be limited in any way? Or will these be a regular offering from drew estate?


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## ckay (May 10, 2010)

They are a regular release.


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## thebayratt (Jun 4, 2009)

I got 5 gran toros in the mail a few days ago. If I get time to sit and enjoy, i will. Hopefully today or tomorrow. Ive heard great things about them!


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## Dread (Oct 16, 2009)

Ive smoked 2 now, good but not great in my opinion.


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## StogieNinja (Jul 29, 2009)

Bravo_Kilo said:


> Very No. 9ish (which I love), but with less body.


This will be interesting for me. I love No.9, and I'm not sure I'd want less body. The T52, while very good, wasn't nearly as good a smoke as the No. 9 IMHO, so I'm guessing I'll still prefer the No. 9 over this. Looking forward to trying one, though.


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## Richterscale (Jan 8, 2011)

Dread said:


> Ive smoked 2 now, good but not great in my opinion.


Brett! You're spoiled with all of the Rodrigos you get to smoke!!


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## stock93pgt (Jan 3, 2011)

ok, so if this is alot like a liga no.9 and a t52, and i dont like the undercrown, is it fair to say i shouldnt try the liga no.9 or t52?


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## ssaka (Oct 28, 2007)

stock93pgt said:


> ok, so if this is alot like a liga no.9 and a t52, and i dont like the undercrown, is it fair to say i shouldnt try the liga no.9 or t52?


No...

The LP No. 9, the LP T52 and the Undercrown are three independent blends - all have different fillers recipes and all three have different wrappers.

Short synopsis:

Q: What is the difference in flavor between the LP No. and T52 and Undercrown.

A: Imo, the No. 9 is more earthy, lusher in body with strong backnotes of espresso and finishes naturally sweeter. This sweetness is a common trait of all good Connecticut Broadleaf. The T52 on the other hand is more peppery with strong notes of leather with a leaner, spicier finish. The Undercrown is closer to the No. 9 in flavor, but with even more natural sweetness and brightness to the flavor - it is creamier in profile.

Of course taste is subjective, so you may characterize all the blends different, however there is little doubt once you have smoked all three they truly are independent blends.

===

Q: Which is stronger, the LP No. 9 or T52 or the Undercrown?

A: First off, which of the two LP blends is stronger seems to be a hotly debated issue, it seems about 50% of consumers consider each of the two to be the stronger - it is weird, I am use to consumer's opinions on how strong vs. mild a cigar is to different, but I have never seen any two blends split so 50/50 on this issue. Imo, the T52 is the stronger of the two. First off, I have the benefit of having smoked all of both blends' individual leaves separately, so I am confident that the ingredients themselves are stronger in the T52. Secondly, I know I can smoke a No. 9 from initial light to nub with rarely pulling it from my mouth, while I find it necessary to pull the T52 every 10 minutes or so out of my yap due to it potency.

The Undercrown however I think most people will agree it is milder than the other two... imo, it is a touch stronger than medium in body... maybe a 6.5 on a 10 point strength scale.

===

Everything about cigars is subjective - one man's dream cigar is another's dog rocket.

I know most people will compare UC to the No. 9 and T52, but imo they really should be judged on their own merit in the grand spectrum of all the blends in the marketplace. I suspect just as some folks prefer the 9 over the T52 and vice versa the same will be the case with the Undercrown. I can see how someone would love the UC, but find the LPs overpowering and I can also see how some folks might find the UC does not deliver enough octane to suit their fancy.

Some folks will love all three like myself (I am kinda biased though ;>) while other folks will say none are for me... and this OK.

As I have said a hundred times before: "As a blender if you make a cigar that everyone likes, then you have made a cigar nobody loves..."

Hope this helps,

Steve Saka
President, Drew Estate


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## Richterscale (Jan 8, 2011)

ssaka said:


> No...
> 
> The LP No. 9, the LP T52 and the Undercrown are three independent blends - all have different fillers recipes and all three have different wrappers.
> 
> ...


Now that's an answer!  Thanks Steve! I love them all but right now the UC owns me. Then T52>LP9 but either way these are all fantastic and you guys should be proud and are deserving of all the success in the world.


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## stock93pgt (Jan 3, 2011)

yup, this is why, no matter what ppl say, i would try one to make my own mind up on things! i will try all three soon!


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## StogieNinja (Jul 29, 2009)

Let me just say how awesome it is to have someone like Steve popping in here and giving answers like this!



ssaka said:


> the No. 9 is more earthy, lusher in body with strong backnotes of espresso and finishes naturally sweeter. This sweetness is a common trait of all good Connecticut Broadleaf. The T52 on the other hand is more peppery with strong notes of leather with a leaner, spicier finish. The Undercrown is closer to the No. 9 in flavor, but with even more natural sweetness and brightness to the flavor - it is creamier in profile.


Thanks for the information Steve. After everyone saying its a "weaker" No. 9, I was ready to write it off. But I'm definitely looking forward to trying the Undercrown now!


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## Rock31 (Sep 30, 2010)

Picked a Belicoso up yesterday at a random B&M I saw while driving, it was $6 but the hygrometer read 83f 78rh so it will rot in my cooler for a bit before I smoke it lol.


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## castaweb (Apr 24, 2011)

Richterscale said:


> Now that's an answer!  Thanks Steve! I love them all but right now the UC owns me. Then T52>LP9 but either way these are all fantastic and you guys should be proud and are deserving of all the success in the world.


Same here Jason. I completely agree with you.

Also, I am surprised at how much of Steve's post I agree with. I really would not have said it any differently. And I am one who seems to have a taste somewhat out of the mainstream. Either way, the Undercrown is a great cigar Steve. Congratulations.


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## thebayratt (Jun 4, 2009)

Had a Gran Toro today.

Very good!
Glad I got a 5pk


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## deep (Mar 13, 2009)

Tried my first one tonight and I thought it was very enjoyable. It was a medium plus stick for me without the spice and made a great easy smoke, I am sure i will be picking some of these up. 

And let me add another thanks to Mr Saka for chimming in here.


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## aroma (Apr 12, 2010)

Steve - thanks for the great explanation!

How would you compare the 3 blends if they each had one year's rest in the humidor after purchase? And again if they each had two years' rest?


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## Dando (Jul 16, 2010)

Tried the Undercrown Belicoso and the Corona Doble and ehh..

For the money there are better sticks out there.

My guess, they put these out to fill the cash flow shortage due to the lack of No. 9 and T-52 being pretty much sold out for some time now.

Moving along.


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## ssaka (Oct 28, 2007)

Dando said:


> Tried the Undercrown Belicoso and the Corona Doble and ehh..
> 
> For the money there are better sticks out there.
> 
> ...


Couple of quick thoughts:

- I got NO problem with you NOT LIKING the UC and posting so - everyone has their own likes and dislikes in a cigar. We don't expect everyone to love everything we make, hell I am prez of the company and I don't enjoy all the cigars we make...

- My issue with your comment is the "they put these out to fill the cash flow shortage due to..."

#1 - We are in the cigar business. We make cigars to sell, we make cigars to earn a profit. We are not a charity, we don't do this for the common good of the planet, etc. etc. We hope people find value in our products and willingly exchange their hard earned dollars for the smoking experience our cigars deliver.

Yes, we hope to make money by making and selling cigars. Your comment reads like we are doing something wrong by trying to earn a profit from our risk and labor and I find this notion misguided.

You go open a factory in a third world country, you buy 5 years of tobacco on spec, you pay a thousand plus people every week, etc. etc. You get the idea...

#2 - However, your assertion that we released Undercrown to make up a "cash flow shortage" is incorrect.

If this was the goal, then we really would have just made more Liga Privadas by changing the blends slightly.

95% of the consumers would never even notice and we in turn would make more money. The brand is incredibly hot - everyone screaming at us to make more: our own sales people, retailers, consumers. And its "hotness" is not due to a great rating or some slick ad campaign, it is solely on word of mouth... (thanks folks, we do appreciate the kind words.)

With all the demand if we were to modify the blend slightly we would be going to the bank like Trump baby!

Just think about how many times a brand is released and it tastes like X and six months later it tastes like Y.

We are very proud and protective of keeping Liga Privadas being the exact same cigar as humanly possible year after year - the No. 9 LP blend has been in the market since 2007 and I would argue to my death it is one of the most consistent cigars ever made in both flavor and construction.

Just look at how few T52s there have been in the marketplace this past year. Why is this? Not because we don't have the tobacco, we do, we have tons of our exclusive Stalk Cut Habano on hand, but we just don't feel it has reached it optimum potential - so we have held back. Talk about cash flow dings... We chose this course of action because we feel it is important to maintain the integrity of the product because we know T52 customers deserve our best. The tobacco and the cigars are great "as is", but we know they are not as great as they could be, so we wait. (Btw - T52s will start slowly showing back up in January assuming we are pleased with them next month.)

#3 - Yes, we released a new brand in Undercrown and yes we hope it sells well. But in no way have we mislead anyone.

We tell people clearly it is a new blend, disclose its similarities and differences to the existing LPs very publicly for all to read and judge for themselves and even state we don't expect everyone to like it.

What other cigar company president do you know that would state something like this?!?! Everyone else tells you that their newest cigar is their best ever, greatest smoke on the planet, will make your head of hair fuller and your ***** larger for gawdsake...

For you to imply it in some way that we are doing something underhanded or wrong by introducing Undercrown as we have to the marketplace is extremely unjust.

So in short: Dando - Your "cash flow" comment is completely wrong and I hope you didn't intend for it to be malicious.

As you can tell by my long winded reply, I took it to be so. And yes, I am guilty of being extremely passionate about our cigars and our company.

BR,

Steve Saka
President, Drew Estate


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## ssaka (Oct 28, 2007)

One last comment... who am I kidding... scratch that...

One MORE comment: Along the way while trying to grow our business we do our honest best to try and improve the lives of our Nica and US team members. In addition to improving their standard of living, I don't have an exact count off the top of my head, but I know we have supported over 200+ charities between the two countries in the last year alone.

Steve Saka
An "EVIL" Cigar Company Executive


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## Staxed (Oct 16, 2011)

Steve,

Thank you VERY much for coming and commenting on this thread, a very enjoyable read!. I haven't tried a lot of LE stuff, but the stuff I have tried has been phenomenal...and I intend to try it all as soon as I can.

And the Undercrown...well...damn good job on that stick!

also, I tried to PM you a question, but I can't it seems. Would you mind emailing me at daniel.b.barr at gmail.com if you have time?


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## ssaka (Oct 28, 2007)

aroma said:


> Steve - thanks for the great explanation!
> 
> How would you compare the 3 blends if they each had one year's rest in the humidor after purchase? And again if they each had two years' rest?


I can't comment on how UC will taste after a year of rest, because I have yet to have any around for a year. Oldest I have smoked is about 7 months and it struck me as the same.

I have spoke with a few guys who have had some of the original Y2007 No. 9s in this last year and all have raved about them becoming very creamy with the extra age on them. I concur, this is what happens, but IMO I like them with less than 2 years on them. They are good with more time on them, but it takes some of the spice from the blends (in particular the T52) that I personally enjoy.

Overall when it comes to LPs, I personally prefer them "as released" which typically means they have somewhere between 6 months to a year of age on them because of this spice factor.

More than the age issue, the one thing that I do think is important is to smoke these cigars on the drier side of 70% RH - I like to keep mine at about 67% RH. Both blends are packed with so much heavy viso and ligeros and being paired with such thick capas I really do feel as though smoking them with a lower moisture concept greatly improves the experience.

I think this is true of all heavy Nica leaf blends like Tatuaje, Pepin, Oliva Vs, etc.

BR,

STS

ps: This true of UC also, however you have to be careful to not rush dry box them as the wrapper is more delicate than those on the No. 9 and T52. It is possibly to over dry the exterior while the barrel retains more moisture than I desire - that is why with UCs I think it is better to just let them rest in a humidor for a couple of months vs. dry boxing below 60% RH.


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## primetime76 (Feb 8, 2011)

My locak B&M is actually having a Drew Estate Event tomorow and should have the Undercrown and the MUWAT as well...I am VERY much looking forward to meeting the DE rep and FINALLY geting a chance to try these two sticks! How does the Uzi compare to the LP line? I LOVE everything about Liga Privada!


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## wahoofever (Jul 5, 2011)

Nice Steve.

I had Undercrown near the top of my to try list. Time to move it up.


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## aroma (Apr 12, 2010)

ssaka said:


> ... IMO I like them with less than 2 years on them. They are good with more time on them, but it takes some of the spice from the blends (in particular the T52) that I personally enjoy.


The reason I asked about aging is that I personally don't like that quality in young cigars. I do, however, *love* the flavors in the T52, once age has mellowed them. A T52 with 1+ yrs was probably the best cigar I've ever had, after a couple of years of trying as many different blends as I can. I've got a bunch resting and a bunch of 9's and a few Undercrowns, hoping they live up to that sublime memory.


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## maxlexi (Sep 2, 2011)

aroma said:


> The reason I asked about aging is that I personally don't like that quality in young cigars. I do, however, *love* the flavors in the T52, once age has mellowed them. A T52 with 1+ yrs was probably the best cigar I've ever had, after a couple of years of trying as many different blends as I can. I've got a bunch resting and a bunch of 9's and a few Undercrowns, hoping they live up to that sublime memory.


Im trying one tonight with about a weeks rest on it. wish me luck.


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## Treadwell (Jul 7, 2011)

Had one last night, much enjoyed it.


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## bazookajoe (Nov 2, 2006)

ssaka said:


> Couple of quick thoughts:
> 
> - I got NO problem with you NOT LIKING the UC and posting so - everyone has their own likes and dislikes in a cigar. We don't expect everyone to love everything we make, hell I am prez of the company and I don't enjoy all the cigars we make...
> .
> ...


Steve, thanks for participating in our forum and for your candor. Must be a full time job battling opinion or misinformation being spread around so easily on internet forums and blogs. Here's to hoping that Drew Estate continues to prosper so you can continue to provide cigars many of us enjoy so much, not to mention continue to provide a living for your employees. Like you I don't like all of your lines but would hate to be without the ones I do enjoy.



ssaka said:


> ...Along the way while trying to grow our business we do our honest best to try and improve the lives of our Nica and US team members. In addition to improving their standard of living, I don't have an exact count off the top of my head, but I know we have supported over 200+ charities between the two countries in the last year alone...


I for one can vouch for the generosity of Drew Estate. In supplying cigars to our troops overseas, the only cigars requested by name by the soldiers were Acids, and though our members were ridiculously generous with their donations, not many of them sent Acids. I contacted Drew Estate and asked if we could get a discount for purchases for the troops, perhaps a deal set up with a particular vendor who might receive a special discount for helping us. Next thing I know close to a dozen boxes of Acids showed up at my door, donated by Drew Estate and just in time for holiday packages for the troops. Nuff said!

:thumb: :ss


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## ckay (May 10, 2010)

bazookajoe said:


> I contacted Drew Estate and asked if we could get a discount for purchases for the troops, perhaps a deal set up with a particular vendor who might receive a special discount for helping us. Next thing I know close to a dozen boxes of Acids showed up at my door, donated by Drew Estate and just in time for holiday packages for the troops. Nuff said!
> 
> :thumb: :ss


:clap2:


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## Staxed (Oct 16, 2011)

bazookajoe said:


> I for one can vouch for the generosity of Drew Estate. In supplying cigars to our troops overseas, the only cigars requested by name by the soldiers were Acids, and though our members were ridiculously generous with their donations, not many of them sent Acids. I contacted Drew Estate and asked if we could get a discount for purchases for the troops, perhaps a deal set up with a particular vendor who might receive a special discount for helping us. Next thing I know close to a dozen boxes of Acids showed up at my door, donated by Drew Estate and just in time for holiday packages for the troops. Nuff said!
> :thumb: :ss


Awesome, just another reason I love DE


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## Richterscale (Jan 8, 2011)

I've been without power so I haven't been able to follow this. I am thrilled to come back and read Steve's follow up post and hats off to a hell of a businessman and an apparently great guy. 

Let the trolls go smoke whatever they want.. Drew Estate isn't short of fans and/or lifelong customers thanks to a consistent and genuinely great product. Hats off to you and the rest of your company, sir.


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## Truebigmike75 (Aug 27, 2011)

I for one can vouch for the generosity of Drew Estate. In supplying cigars to our troops overseas, the only cigars requested by name by the soldiers were Acids, and though our members were ridiculously generous with their donations, not many of them sent Acids. I contacted Drew Estate and asked if we could get a discount for purchases for the troops, perhaps a deal set up with a particular vendor who might receive a special discount for helping us. Next thing I know close to a dozen boxes of Acids showed up at my door, donated by Drew Estate and just in time for holiday packages for the troops. Nuff said!

:thumb: :ss[/QUOTE]

Awesome simply awesome


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## skfr518 (Jul 4, 2011)

I will admit I did not read this entire thread, however since the President has chimed in I will say this. I fell in love with cigars because of DE, I will say I am not the biggest fan of some of their cigars but I started with the Juicy Loosy then went to the Dirty Torpedo, then the naturals, then I started to explore other options. My love for DE cigars has not faded and I still get others started smoking by using the DE cigars I enjoyed as my first cigars. I especially enjoy the LP line and my new favorite is the Undercrown. Thank you for what you did for our troops, it makes me want to support you even more.


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## Cigar Noob (May 22, 2011)

The only LP I've had is the T-52 flying pig and it was highly underwhelming. Not bad, but certainly not great or even good. Just average. Won't buy another LP if what I experienced was the norm. BUT, I have heard those goofy shapes are not the best reflection of the brand (which I can understand) so I will give them another try in a better vitola especially with all of the fanfare. 

Luckily for me, someone bombed me with an undercrown and will fire it up once letting it sit a few weeks.


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## AStateJB (Oct 13, 2011)

I still haven't gotten to try the UC... I'm hoping to pick one up soon though.


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## StogieNinja (Jul 29, 2009)

Cigar Noob said:


> The only LP I've had is the T-52 flying pig and it was highly underwhelming. Not bad, but certainly not great or even good. Just average. Won't buy another LP if what I experienced was the norm. BUT, I have heard those goofy shapes are not the best reflection of the brand (which I can understand) so I will give them another try in a better vitola especially with all of the fanfare.
> 
> Luckily for me, someone bombed me with an undercrown and will fire it up once letting it sit a few weeks.


Get your handS on a LP 9. I guarantee satisfaction!


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## doomXsaloon (Jul 25, 2011)

I was blown away by the 9 and 52....just received a 5er of the Undercrowns...letting them settle in a little before firing one up.


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## gosh (Oct 17, 2011)

Tried the UC last night, made quite an impression on me! Gotta get a box soon!


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## Maximon (Aug 3, 2011)

Bought a box knowing that they are in need of a little rest. Tried one anyway and was very, very pleased. I'm very much looking forward to them getting a little bit of a nap and am strongly considering buying another box for long term storage.


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## Dando (Jul 16, 2010)

ssaka said:


> Couple of quick thoughts:
> 
> - I got NO problem with you NOT LIKING the UC and posting so - everyone has their own likes and dislikes in a cigar. We don't expect everyone to love everything we make, hell I am prez of the company and I don't enjoy all the cigars we make...
> 
> ...


10-4 Steve.

I will keep my comments to the sticks and only the sticks in the future.

Dando :doh:


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## jdfutureman (Sep 20, 2010)

My first UC was quite my cup of tea. I prefer a fuller bodied smoke. The T-52 is my current fav, FYI. I probably will revisit these in the future with some more rest. I found them to be a bit bitter on the last third.


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## Quine (Nov 9, 2011)

Turned onto this thread from another in the same forum. Enjoy reading what Steve S. wrote. Love seeing participation from the people who are actually at the top of this game, the source of all this chatter and smoking enjoyment. I haven't stumbled on a T-52 or a #9 yet. I'm going to be working a new job soon (next week in fact) and I understand the local B&M in that town has just gotten some of these in. I have to drive down there for other reasons today, and might pay them a visit. Meanwhile, I bought a 5 pack of the Undercrown a few weeks ago because of the good reviews I read from other smokers whose tastes seem to follow my own. Those of you who have read my posts in another of these Undercrown threads know I am counted on the side of those who really like them!

Again Steve, thanks, have a great New Year, and oh yes, The D.E. Java is my gf's favorite cigar!


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## nealw6971 (Jul 8, 2011)

Always enjoy Steve's comments. I have yet to have a "bad" DE stick.


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## CigarSnWhiskeY (Sep 6, 2011)

I have been searching high and low(online and local B&M) for LP with no luck! Ive heard nothing but good things about all 3 and cant wait to get my hands on them! I am still a relatively new BoTL and havent tried any DE smokes to date...I will have to soon...I respect a company where its president cares about the quality of product so much that he takes time out of his day to write to us and share info/respond to criticism!


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## falconman515 (Jul 10, 2011)

I had one of these for the first time about a month or so ago and it is by far my favorite smoke to date.

I have since bought a 10 pack of these and I can't wait to try more of the DE line.

Granted I have never tried a Liga Privada stick so these may not be as good but out of the handful smokes I have smoked since getting into this hobby about 6 months it is the best cigar I have had yet.


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## smokin surfer (Jul 21, 2012)

I found a 660 uc in my local b&m and smoked it after a few weeks rest. It was awesome. Struck me as much spicier than the lp no. 9 but truly I thought to myself I had discovered a true diamond in the rough. I've ordered some toros now.. Watching the mail!


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## booyaka (Aug 11, 2010)

I smoked a robusto from a 5 pack I got a couple weeks ago. I hate to say it, but it didn't do it for me yet. I say yet, cuz I got 4 more to go! we'll give it a few more weeks and giver another go. I also got a 5 pack of the toros, so we'll be doing a size comparason


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## Quine (Nov 9, 2011)

booyaka said:


> I smoked a robusto from a 5 pack I got a couple weeks ago. I hate to say it, but it didn't do it for me yet. I say yet, cuz I got 4 more to go! we'll give it a few more weeks and giver another go. I also got a 5 pack of the toros, so we'll be doing a size comparason


No cigar is cut out for every palate. What did you think of the rest of it? The smoke volume, construction, draw, burn? These are usually great cigars on all those counts, but of course flavor is the single most important part. Have you tried their more expensive brethren, the Liga #9 or T-52? What did you think of those? I certainly recommend you try again eventually. I smoked one of the original robustos sitting in my humi for 6 months and it was more delicious than I remember it being when I first bought them.


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## thegunslinger (Aug 3, 2012)

Unfortunately, my first experience with the Undercrown line was unimpressive. It burned unevenly for the duration. Every time I ashed, I'd notice pockets of space going back into the cigar from the end. There was a big one of these right under the wrapper on one side why I'm sure contributed to the burn problems. The draw wasn't very good and it didn't produce a lot of smoke. I'd had this sitting in my humi (67% RH) for 2.5 weeks after purchase.

I'm sure it was just a dud of a cigar, but it certainly was an underwhelming smoke considering all the praise I read for them.


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## zepp69 (Aug 23, 2012)

I had an LP Undercrown Doble...Amazing! Have just a few that are in the Humi. waiting to be enjoyed! :wave:


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## StogieNinja (Jul 29, 2009)

I'm under the impression these go through a distinct flat period. They're great fresh, and then I think they need a little rest. I've had some ROTT that were amazing, some after a month or two that were lackluster, then after a few months, they're sparkling again.


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## hawesg (Jun 9, 2012)

I enjoy UCs, the robusto and toro are good with even a tiny bit of rest, and I'm quite fond of the corona viva, sure if I was to compare them with a #9 or a T-52 they are nowhere near as good but they are a different line, I don't expect the same thing from a Hemingway as I would an anjeo or opus, that doesn't detract from Hemingways at all though


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## J. Drew (Aug 30, 2012)

I haven't tried one. It is on my wishlist. I will have to find a fiver at a good price!


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## lukesparksoff (Apr 21, 2010)

I'm a big Liga privada fan (Uc's are marketed under the Liga banner , but its clearly not a Liga) , expected a lot more , all in all it's a good cigar with a little rest. I keep a fiver in the humidor


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## Johnny Rock (Jun 25, 2010)

I am not a big fan of Maduro, so I probably won't. Count me out....


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## toofewbullets (May 8, 2012)

I enjoy the UCs very much so. Although I cannot compare them to the other Liga Privadas like the no 9 or t52 as I haven't had the chance to obtain/smoke one just yet.


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## Cmdio (Apr 30, 2012)

I totally love them. ROTT or with some rest (have yet to try one with more than a couple of months on it though, aside from a few I received in trades/bombs where I didn't know how much age they had on them). I prefer them to the #9 or T52, but I don't love those cigars all that much on their own. Just a personal palate thing.

My favorite sizes are the 6x60 gordito and the Corona Viva, I seem to like the far reaches of the spectrum in this cigar. I will say that these two sizes are 2 very different cigars.

I just split a box of the corona vivas with a buddy, and I'm keeping my eyes out for a deal on a box of the gorditos.

I think I could be happy if I could only smoke Undercrown for the rest of my life. I like them that much.


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## lukesparksoff (Apr 21, 2010)

Cmdio said:


> I totally love them. ROTT or with some rest (have yet to try one with more than a couple of months on it though, aside from a few I received in trades/bombs where I didn't know how much age they had on them). I prefer them to the #9 or T52, but I don't love those cigars all that much on their own. Just a personal palate thing.
> 
> My favorite sizes are the 6x60 gordito and the Corona Viva, I seem to like the far reaches of the spectrum in this cigar. I will say that these two sizes are 2 very different cigars.
> 
> ...


REALLY , just kiddin , Love what you smoke and smoke what you love

about 10 years ago, occasionally I had a drew estate kuba kuba ROTFLMAO .So brother I can't judge anyone, UC's are a good smoke


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## Paulharmo (Jan 2, 2012)

The Undercrown is the best cigar this noobie has ever smoked. I love the construction - perfect every time. I love the flavor - Fantastic medium-full body that I can stand and enjoy. My next box will undoubtedly be full of Undercrown Robustos.


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## SilverStreak (May 7, 2012)

I'm a bit of a newb and haven't branched out much from my range of sticks, but from reading reviews and looking at profiles, the demand and opinion of these is pretty obvious. These are definitely on my to try list along with the LP9. Can't wait to get my paws on one these


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## Cmdio (Apr 30, 2012)

lukesparksoff said:


> REALLY , just kiddin , Love what you smoke and smoke what you love
> 
> about 10 years ago, occasionally I had a drew estate kuba kuba ROTFLMAO .So brother I can't judge anyone, UC's are a good smoke


Hold on now, I no where said these things are the best cigar I've ever had. They are not. However based on price point, constant avaliability, consistency, and everything else I would not be upset if I walked into my B&M and heard that the only cigar that will continue to be made is the UC. I would miss many of my other favorites, but the UC hits me just right. (I would also save hours a month that I wouldn't spend walking around the humidor trying to make up my mind)

However I am not a picky person. Similarily if Labatt or Molson were to be the only beers left, I also wouldn't be too upset. Are they the best beer out there? No, but they are solid beers that I would be happy with. (I would also save hours a month not standing in front of the coolers at the liquor store trying to decide what beer I want).


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## Etrain (Aug 19, 2012)

Just picked up a box of the belicosos based on the feedback I've seen on the forums about them. They are adjusting to their new home as I post, but I look forward to trying them in the future. They certainly are purty!
Eric


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## capttrips (Jun 25, 2012)

A fantastic cigar. I haves box of belicosos and toros in the coolidor waiting to smoke.


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## A144 (Jul 9, 2012)

I have yet to try an Undercrown, but they definitely on the top of my wishlist!


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## Cmdio (Apr 30, 2012)

Etrain said:


> Just picked up a box of the belicosos based on the feedback I've seen on the forums about them. They are adjusting to their new home as I post, but I look forward to trying them in the future. They certainly are purty!
> Eric


The Belicosos are completely terrible. You should probably send them to me and I'll make sure they get disposed of properly. :smoke2:


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## Loki21 (Jul 19, 2012)

This is a good cigar wish I was able to ever get ahold of a uc piggy.


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## Etrain (Aug 19, 2012)

Cmdio said:


> The Belicosos are completely terrible. You should probably send them to me and I'll make sure they get disposed of properly. :smoke2:


Chris,
Thank you for the kind heads-up. However as you can see, I am a new member, and I would hate to get the reputation of passing off my dog rockets to other members despite their gracious offer to help out. Imagine my embarrassment...  Eric


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## Koach Kuku (Jul 2, 2012)

Cmdio said:


> (I would also save hours a month that I wouldn't spend walking around the humidor trying to make up my mind)
> (I would also save hours a month not standing in front of the coolers at the liquor store trying to decide what beer I want).


+1 to both of these. Chicks go shopping for clothes... guys... we go shopping for beer and cigars... do you go with your favorite cause you know you will like it or do you try something new. but what if i dont like it, should i get a 22 oz, a 6 pack, 12 pack, should I make my own 6 pack of 6 new beers? should i go back and get another bottle of captain morgan private stock??? OMG SOOOO MANY CHOICES!!! its like a kid at a candy shop. instead a giant kid in a liquor store or a B&M


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## RayJax (Mar 13, 2012)

I really like the Undercrown Series.

I have smoked the Belicoso, Gran Toro, and most frequently the Robustos.

I have yet to try the new Corona Viva but will as soon as I pick up a five pack.

My local B&M have them for + $8 however if you follow Cigarmonster (Better be quick) and the Devil site (may take a while but watch often and closely) they can often be found for below $6 per stick which I find within my per stick budget.

They are certianly within my top 5 go to smokes.


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## booyaka (Aug 11, 2010)

Quine said:


> No cigar is cut out for every palate. What did you think of the rest of it? The smoke volume, construction, draw, burn? These are usually great cigars on all those counts, but of course flavor is the single most important part. Have you tried their more expensive brethren, the Liga #9 or T-52? What did you think of those? I certainly recommend you try again eventually. I smoked one of the original robustos sitting in my humi for 6 months and it was more delicious than I remember it being when I first bought them.


smoke was good, construction was top notch as expected. burn i had i to correct a couple times. I've had the #9 and loved it, and i have a t-52 thats been resting for 1.5 years which i will be smoking very soon. i will definitely be smoking another one soon just to see if this are progressign a posative direction....


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## Lrbergin (Jun 14, 2012)

I've had a couple of different vitolas now and everyone I've had has been good. These aren't knock your socks off cigars and overly complex, but they are good cigars. One of my favorite smokes in the everyday category even though they are pricey for an everyday.


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## nealw6971 (Jul 8, 2011)

Love it. The robusto is currently one of my favorite go to sticks. 3 boxes in the cooli.


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## tagi466 (Sep 6, 2012)

Smoked a couple and loved them. They put off a lot of smoke and have a great overall flavor.


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## Tru (Nov 26, 2011)

Robusto was my first box purchase still my go to after a long day


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## wahoofever (Jul 5, 2011)

I like the corona viva! the best but they are all tasty. I'm a guy who likes #9's but not T52's if that helps.


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## edin508 (Aug 7, 2012)

Got 6 of the robusto's recently. The fiver I got yesterday will need some rest. But one of them has been in there for a bit now (few weeks) and will have to be smoked this week. Will be my first!


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## nikesupremedunk (Jun 29, 2012)

Of the 2 that I had I smoked one and wasn't too crazy about it. I decided to smoke the other one today and this time for some reason it was overhumidified. Had to ditch it half way because I was tired of taking 3-4 puffs at a time only to get a small puff out. Such a shame because it was one of the most gorgeous cigars I've ever held...even better construction than T52 or No. 9. I'm slowly liking the Liga line and the UC's will be definitely purchased again.


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## jminsi (Nov 11, 2010)

Had a robusto yesterday that I've had in the humidor for about 6 months. Flavor was pretty good but it kept wanting to burn unevenly. It somehow always manage to correct itself though.


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## longburn (Mar 28, 2009)

I've got several in my humidor but I read somewhere they need to have about a year of age on them to be really enjoyable? Does anyone know if this is correct?


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## Cmdio (Apr 30, 2012)

longburn said:


> I've got several in my humidor but I read somewhere they need to have about a year of age on them to be really enjoyable? Does anyone know if this is correct?


I like them ROTT as well as with some age. I haven't had one with any more than a couple of months, I say try one now and then in a couple of months or up to a year.


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## TJM (Aug 9, 2012)

Just received 5 from the Monster, will be first Drew Estate (outside of trying a blondie when I first started smoking). Also picked up a fiver of My Uzi Weighs a Ton 6x60 and Arturo Fuente Hemingway Signature.

As for the MUWAT, I wont lie, marketing has sold me already with the Alec Bradley Black Market (which I love). We'll see how these go.


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