# Kitty Litter misconception



## Gdaddy (Sep 20, 2012)

I've seen many posts from people who, based on their comments, appear to believe that just by placing kitty litter in their humidor is all that's required and that the crystals will automatically take the RH to the perfect level. 
KL is NOT like a Boveda pack or polyglycol solution in that you open the package and set it in the humidor and that's all you have to do. Kitty crystals don't work that way. It's great stuff but they are not magic.

The KL you buy will have a moisture level that will vary. Equisicat purchased in Southern Florida will be different than one purchased in Arizona. There needs to be an understanding that the KL once placed in the humidor will probably require some 'training' to reach your desired level of RH.

If the RH is too high you will need to bake out the moisture in order to drop the level. (either oven or micro wave)
If the RH is too low you'll need to SLOWLY add some moisture to raise up to that desired level. (spritz lightly with distilled water or place a wet sponge/paper towel in humidor to release moisture slowly)

Once your RH level is reached the mass of the crystals will help to maintain that level. Be aware also, as time passes the RH may creep up or down and the KL will require a small tweak every now and then. It doesn't automatically 'KNOW' what level to balance out at. You will have to take it to the level you want. There is nothing 'automatic' about it.

Hope this helps.


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## Simon.G (Jan 10, 2013)

Nice advice.
Always best to get the humi working spot on for a couple of days before popping cigars in :cowboyic9:

Try and keep things *'nice and simple'*...


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## Gdaddy (Sep 20, 2012)

Be aware your cigars have a moisture level also that will have an influence on RH. So once you have everything balanced out at a perfect RH and then you pile in a bunch of cigars that may be higher or lower in RH then you may see a fluctuation in RH that needs a little correction.


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## Bondo 440 (Jul 24, 2012)

I agree with everything here. It's great in the summer for pulling RH down to 65%. But _adding _RH to your humidor with KL takes a bit of practice in the winter months. Face it. It is designed to reduce moisture, not release it.

And we all know I am a big KL fan, but because of the maintenance of KL during the dry RH in the winter season now, I decided to try HCM beads because they are supposed to have memory and return RH better. But I saw none of the "maintenance free, drop in and go" I hear about with those either. They are finally OK now. But retraining HCM beads was not easier. And that's what it took. No use getting into details. I like KL but right now I am just trying to use the beads keep it simple too. Constant RH swinging just gets old.

My point is not "one versus the other". Or a "slam" on either media. 
My point is anyone expecting a "drop in " solution is like expecting a humidor to arrive at your door pre-seasoned.

Bodeva Paks may be different, I dunno.


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## shawnrichardson (Jan 7, 2013)

thanks Don for explaining. I have never used KL and was wondering HOW and why you would choose that over beads or Boveda packs. I will still with the low maintenance Boveda packs for now. I am only having to maintain a small desktop humi currently.


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## tony (Feb 2, 2008)

Bondo 440 said:


> I agree with everything here. It's great in the summer for pulling RH down to 65%. But _adding _RH to your humidor with KL takes a bit of practice in the winter months. Face it. It is designed to reduce moisture, not release it.
> 
> And we all know I am a big KL fan, but because of the maintenance of KL during the dry RH in the winter season now, I decided to try HCM beads because they are supposed to have memory and return RH better. But I saw none of the "maintenance free, drop in and go" I hear about with those either. They are finally OK now. But retraining HCM beads was not easier. And that's what it took. No use getting into details. I like KL but right now I am just trying to use the beads keep it simple too. Constant RH swinging just gets old.
> 
> ...


we may be polar opposites. the beads are as close to set it and forget it as i will ever get. mine stays consistently at 65% and will only start to drop about 2-3 months after recharge. when it gets down to about 60% i take them out and douse them in distilled water and usually within about an hour or two i will be back up to 65%. wait 2-3 months, then repeat. this has been extremely reliable for both of my desktop humis. sometimes in the winter months i will keep a small jar of pg solution in both humis since i tend to keep the house a bit cooler in winter but i believe the jar is for naught. this is all in south tejas with moderate humidity and high heat.

the thought of using cat litter in a humidor makes me cringe. however, i understand it works for a lot of people so keep on keeping on.

we do likely agree that no single solution is the answer to everyone's problem

i do have a wineador in the works, im not sure what is going to work best for it but im sure going to try to not change anything other than adding more beads (and a fan)


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## Gdaddy (Sep 20, 2012)

Boveda packs are superior technology. (and you pay for it) The silica is housed in a membrane that governs the amount of moisture released.It acts like a gate keeper the same as a reverse osmosis membrane. It's the membrane that makes it a no brainer.

I believe the beads are the same basic silica technology as the Kitty litter. When you order 65% beads it's my opinion that the beads have simply been acclimated to 65% moisture level. You could do the exact same thing with Kitty litter. I don't believe that the beads have any "memory" that makes them gravitate to a predetermined RH level. This would also require a different 'memory' to occur at each different RH level that they offer. It's just not that sophisticated of a product to have different 'settings'. I've never used them but I've read that beads require RH adjustments just like KL for some users.

Think about this...once my KL is acclimated to 65% in my wineador of 66 degrees if I pulled it out, sealed it up tight, and send it to you and you put it in your wineador of 66 degrees in the same size what do you think the RH would be? My bet is it will be 65% also.


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## Gdaddy (Sep 20, 2012)

tony said:


> we may be polar opposites. the beads are as close to set it and forget it as i will ever get. mine stays consistently at 65% and will only start to drop about 2-3 months after recharge. when it gets down to about 60% i take them out and douse them in distilled water and usually within about an hour or two i will be back up to 65%. wait 2-3 months, then repeat. this has been extremely reliable for both of my desktop humis. sometimes in the winter months i will keep a small jar of pg solution in both humis since i tend to keep the house a bit cooler in winter but i believe the jar is for naught. this is all in south tejas with moderate humidity and high heat.
> 
> the thought of using cat litter in a humidor makes me cringe. however, i understand it works for a lot of people so keep on keeping on.
> 
> ...


Exactly my point. The beads have no memory and they require the same maintenance as kitty litter. The KL is just as odorless as the beads. No need to cringe.


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## Bondo 440 (Jul 24, 2012)

Gdaddy said:


> Exactly my point. The beads have no memory and they require the same maintenance as kitty litter. .......


Let me just clear up here. I am not talking about HeartFelts. I am talking about HCM beads. HCM works differently. Adding water directly to them is disastrous. The things will attempt to melt your container ! You can only hydrate HCM beads using an ambient technique. Don't want anybody adding water to HCM bead packs here. So let me just share this experience.

My problem was one of the humidors was not initially at my desired RH before I put the beads in. I thought it wouldn't be a problem, but now I know it was. After a few weeks, the beads "learned 60%. " It's either that, or one of my packs came to my door at 60% . I know this after following the site recommendations, testing the pack separately, in tupperware , and it was at 60 % . After rehydrating and "training" them at 65% per distributor's instructions, I put the pack back in the humi. Then all good. No more problems.

At the moment, guys I do appear to be "maintenance free". Sans my hijack, I will yield the remainder of my time back to the forum. 
Smoke On ! my brothers !


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## stonecutter2 (Jul 12, 2012)

I generally use KL to reduce RH or to maintain/buffer RH. It's difficult to dial them in to the right RH - I start with small quantities of distilled water, and add more until I hit the right mark. Then I let things settle.

I use KL in my coolidor with great success. It's on the bottom, in plastic rectangular baby food containers, with a layer of spanish cedar planks on top (sides cut off of cheap trays).

I find that space is a premium in humidors, so I use Heartfelt beads in those. In my coolidor and wineador, I have large Boveda packs as well as KL - the Boveda regulates the humidity, the KL helps buffer.


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## tony (Feb 2, 2008)

Gdaddy said:


> Once your RH level is reached the mass of the crystals will help to maintain that level. Be aware also, as time passes the RH may creep up or down and the KL will require a small tweak every now and then. It doesn't automatically 'KNOW' what level to balance out at. You will have to take it to the level you want. There is nothing 'automatic' about it.


this is what i was referring to. my beads have maintained rock solid 65% for 3-4 years now with no "tweaking". however, i am no chemist and it may just be the planets aligning for me with my local climate or it may just be dumb luck

regardless, i had no intentions of starting any arguments on the "better" humidification system. its fairly clear from all the posts here, none are infallible


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## claws (Apr 17, 2011)

I use an open top box of bead style kitty litter. to bring it to proper initial humidity I placed it in a sealed box with a humidistat and a sterile water wet pack for one week. once the beads read stable I moved them to the tupador. Sealed and with the Cigars at humidity( i like around 63-66%) it holds rh stable for about 14 days undisturbed. (which does not happen much lol.) to combat humidity loss i have a small bottle of sterile water that i apply a few drops to the crystals. In my set up six drops to the beads will restore about 15%. My tupador is clear so its easy to keep an eye on temp and rh. Kitty litter is not perfect but way better then the wet cotton swab i stated with lol!


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## tony (Feb 2, 2008)

claws said:


> Kitty litter is not perfect but way better then the wet cotton swab i stated with lol!


lol

cant argue with that


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## TonyBrooklyn (Jan 28, 2010)

Gdaddy said:


> Boveda packs are superior technology. (and you pay for it) The silica is housed in a membrane that governs the amount of moisture released.It acts like a gate keeper the same as a reverse osmosis membrane. It's the membrane that makes it a no brainer.
> 
> I believe the beads are the same basic silica technology as the Kitty litter. _When you order 65% beads it's my opinion that the beads have simply been acclimated to 65% moisture level. _You could do the exact same thing with Kitty litter. I don't believe that the beads have any "memory" that makes them gravitate to a predetermined RH level. This would also require a different 'memory' to occur at each different RH level that they offer. It's just not that sophisticated of a product to have different 'settings'. I've never used them but I've read that beads require RH adjustments just like KL for some users.
> 
> Think about this...once my KL is acclimated to 65% in my wineador of 66 degrees if I pulled it out, sealed it up tight, and send it to you and you put it in your wineador of 66 degrees in the same size what do you think the RH would be? My bet is it will be 65% also.


It is the mineral salts added to heartfelt or any other bead that regulates the amount of R/H. Originally they were manufactured to store valuable art work and museum pieces. Then adapted by heartfelt and others for use in cigar storage.


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## Hoosier Daddy (May 15, 2012)

I've been successfully using KL in my wineador since I started it up nine months ago, but I'm thinking of switching to beads only because I really don't like the dust problem caused by the KL. It's pretty substantial. I use the media bags found in the aquarium section of pet stores.


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## Habanolover (Feb 22, 2006)

Keep in mind that the HF beads also have some dust. Since you will not need near as much of it then the dust will be less but there will be a small amount.


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## jurgenph (Jun 29, 2011)

so i got curious...

i picked up a bag of silica kitty litter.
put some of it in a ziplock bag with a hygrometer (calibrated recently with a 62% boveda pack)

after 2 hours it's already up to 67%, wonder what they will settle at after a day or so.
hah, i thought they "looked dry"

looks like i'll need to dry those out before introducing cigars to them.


J.


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## splattttttt (May 17, 2012)

TonyBrooklyn said:


> *It is the mineral salts added to heartfelt or any other bead that regulates the amount of R/H*. Originally they were manufactured to store valuable art work and museum pieces. Then adapted by heartfelt and others for use in cigar storage.


Not many people realize that crystal based humidification systems used to promote a humid environment is primarily due to the content of the salts added to the crystals.
"Silica," or silicon dioxide (SiO2), is also a mineral similar to quarts. This natural byproduct when mechanically processed accordingly can be made to absorb moisture.
When combined with salts, it becomes both a moisture absorbing and moisture producing media.
It's the amount of salts added to the silica crystal that govern the intended relative humidity it can maintain. Just add water.

More fun facts.

Thanks for posting this topic Don :kiss:


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## Arizona Dave (Nov 5, 2012)

The *"Silica"* everyone is referring to is *Diatomaceous Earth (DE).* I used to own an opal mine with a high grade of this stuff around. Keep in mind, it holds and releases moisture no matter where you buy it......the kind I had is of the fresh water variety, and is even used in livestock and chicken feed to control internal parasites (yes, it kills bugs). *Only use the Natural kind, not pool filter DE!* Here's an article:Diatomaceous earth - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
I agree with Tony, Jack, and Habanolover.


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## splattttttt (May 17, 2012)

Dave, is it the same as the crystal variety, or the more opaque silica variety?, ie; as in what they put in those packets to help attract moisture from manufactured commercial products?


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## yellowv (Dec 24, 2011)

I have not touched the KL in my wineador for at least 6 months. Has been absolutely rock solid after I got it where I wanted it. I add a spritz or two to the KL in my coolerador every two or three months. The stuff is friggin fantastic.


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## Arizona Dave (Nov 5, 2012)

splattttttt said:


> Dave, is it the same as the crystal variety, or the more opaque silica variety?, ie; as in what they put in those packets to help attract moisture from manufactured commercial products?


 My understanding of it, although limited, it's amorphous. I have found it both in cakes (not at the opal site) and a fine powder (at the opal site). My understanding is this kind (fresh water/opal kind) is what they also make kitty litter with. Can't give my site, but if you look up Lovelock, NV and diatomaceous earth, you'll find a manufacturing plant there that would probably like to explain it in further detail?

As they say on Shark tank "I'm Out", LOL


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## Fuzzy (Jun 19, 2011)

Not an expert on KL, I learned of its use here thanks to Tony, it works for me. I live and spend a majority of my life in the swamps where the annual average humidity is above 70%. It is a rare time that I have to spritz the stuff. More likely, I have to dry it a couple times a year.

By accident, I discovered that adding 65% Boveda packs has created a rock solid means to keep my stash where I need/like it. The Bovedas seem to last forever, the litter and old pieces of cigar boxes seems to help buffer the storage to help maintain an even RH.


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## ol' dirty ewok (Oct 26, 2012)

All great information to consider when prepping my wineador! Thanks for clarifying


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## splattttttt (May 17, 2012)

Arizona Dave said:


> My understanding of it, although limited, it's amorphous. I have found it both in cakes (not at the opal site) and a fine powder (at the opal site). My understanding is this kind (fresh water/opal kind) is what they also make kitty litter with. Can't give my site, but if you look up Lovelock, NV and diatomaceous earth, you'll find a manufacturing plant there that would probably like to explain it in further detail?
> 
> As they say on Shark tank "I'm Out", LOL


Shark tank?


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## Mac05 (Jan 20, 2013)

So I'm building a 2.5 gal tupperdor right now and curious what you guys think about using KL in it? Do you think that this is too small? If you think I could use it how much do you think is a good amount to use?


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## splattttttt (May 17, 2012)

Mac05 said:


> So I'm building a 2.5 gal tupperdor right now and curious what you guys think about using KL in it? Do you think that this is too small? If you think I could use it how much do you think is a good amount to use?


1 cup measurement is perfect. Find a small container than can hold one sheet of paper towel or cotton balls you can use as a means of a spill proof distilled water reservoir. That will finalize your passive evaporative system nicely.


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## Arizona Dave (Nov 5, 2012)

splattttttt said:


> 1 cup measurement is perfect. Find a small container than can hold one sheet of paper towel or cotton balls you can use as a means of a spill proof distilled water reservoir. That will finalize your passive evaporative system nicely.


 That'll work too. KL won't harm you, nor will the dust either, it's the pool grade stuff ya' kneed to stay away from.

I use a similar system to the one Splattttttt just mentioned, but I use small pill bottle sized containers with lids that I put in a clean sponge, that I clean 2x a week. Sponges are disposable. (Bought a pack of sponges 6 months ago, not even half done). Haven't tried cotton, but in the past I have used the paper towel trick. Your choice!

Or boveda packs, which are great.......


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## Mac05 (Jan 20, 2013)

Thanks for the help guys. I guess its off to the pet store for me. Any specific brands that you would suggest to me?


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## splattttttt (May 17, 2012)

Mac05 said:


> Thanks for the help guys. I guess its off to the pet store for me. Any specific brands that you would suggest to me?


Crystal Cat Litter » ExquisiCat® Crystals Fragrance Free Cat Litter | PetSmart. distilled water MUST be additive free. That means no added salt/mineral of other substances. A jar for use to add water and some sanitized and pure absorbing material like cotton balls or even that green foam ladies like for their decorating projects will work.
The bigger the humidifier the bigger your active humidification system should be. I usually look at it this way. Dedicate 10-15% of the unit's internal volume for all combined hydration media. These can be stacked or placed side by side.


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## jurgenph (Jun 29, 2011)

without naming brands, are all litters the same texture or structure?

the one i got a while back to "experiment with" if very fragile and brittle.
i can pretty much pulverize the crystals between my fingers.

i may try to order some of the litter beads to see how they hold up.


J.


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## Necmo (Oct 29, 2012)

No, I was just at the petstore yesterday and they vary from brand to brand.

The "off-brands" were almost like pulverized grain and really brittle.


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## jurgenph (Jun 29, 2011)

hah... they only had one silica brand at my local grocery store.
looks like i'll need to do some shopping online.

J.


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## Mac05 (Jan 20, 2013)

My wife went to a pet store today, we live in Germany for now, and did some searching with her translator app. I now have a GIANT bag of the crystal type KL. Time to try this out


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## splattttttt (May 17, 2012)

something else to consider now... AndresMadera aka Andrew is running a pass and is using these.
What do you guys think? Little pricey, I thought.


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## jabuan (Jan 20, 2013)

Gdaddy said:


> Be aware your cigars have a moisture level also that will have an influence on RH. So once you have everything balanced out at a perfect RH and then you pile in a bunch of cigars that may be higher or lower in RH then you may see a fluctuation in RH that needs a little correction.


ain't that the truth! i recently set up a wineador with 65% HF beads, and with handful of cigars and cigar boxes it was hovering around 66-68%. the devil site got me pretty damn good recently and i've added like 50 or so cigars within the span of two to three weeks and the humidity jumped up to 75%. not to mention i'm in it a lot since it's my only humidor. But with patience it starts creeping down slowly but surely. i threw the buggahs in there dry since i 1) i live in hawaii and 2) to absorb the always "wetter than normal" cigars from online retailers.


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## splattttttt (May 17, 2012)

jabuan said:


> ain't that the truth! i recently set up a wineador with 65% HF beads, and with handful of cigars and cigar boxes it was hovering around 66-68%. the devil site got me pretty damn good recently and i've added like 50 or so cigars within the span of two to three weeks and the humidity jumped up to 75%. not to mention i'm in it a lot since it's my only humidor. But with patience it starts creeping down slowly but surely. i threw the buggahs in there dry since i 1) i live in hawaii and 2) to absorb the always "wetter than normal" cigars from online retailers.


good to have an extra pound of kl to use specifically for fine tuning, as in your case... Just add it when stocking up and leave till the rh is back to normal.


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## Herf N Turf (Dec 31, 2008)

Great thread and lots of good information here!

Personally, I've never really warmed to the seeming love affair that many seem to have with cat litter. It would seem to me that you could as easily "train" a sock, or a tampax to do essentially the same thing.

The biggest difference between cat litter and HCM, versus Boveda and Heartfelt is that the latter are regulated. HCM set themselves apart from cat litter, in that they indeed have a sort of "memory". Once trained, HCM will hold your desired RH with very little maintenance. Not so cat litter, which must be regularly monitored and adjusted. In truth, the only 'advantage' to cat litter is cost savings and the fact that if you screw it up, you can just throw it out and start over.

Without a doubt, the lowest maintenance, easiest and most idiot proof media are Boveda and Heartfelt (and like) beads. There are also museum products, which are regulated and work identically to HF beads. In fact, that's what HF beads are; repurposed, repackaged museum beads. The salts, when properly applied, are extraordinarily accurate and predictable. So much so that they are more accurate than any but the most sophisticated hygrometers. They hold many thousand times more water than low-density gels, such as used in cat litter, so far less is required to accomplish the same desired result.

The one disadvantage to HF beads, is that they are far more susceptible to operator error. The salts are bound through a simple covalency, so are therefore easy to rinse off, if improperly charged. I'm reminded of a You Tube video where a guy has his beads literally swimming in water, wondering why he's unable to achieve acceptable RH. No fixing stupid.

About the only thing, which in my opinion beats HF beads is the Accumonitor from Avallo/Cigar Solutions. But, beads still win out where space is a concern.


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## Gdaddy (Sep 20, 2012)

^^^ You've got me thinking about the HF beads. Also interested in the sheets. I may spring for the beads since I am always having to adjust the KL.


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## Arizona Dave (Nov 5, 2012)

Great info coming out of thread.......there's an option for everyone, and yet for collectors a better way to keep a tighter control on RH.


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## nick2021 (Sep 18, 2012)

Arizona Dave said:


> Great info coming out of thread.......there's an option for everyone, and yet for collectors a better way to keep a tighter control on RH.


x2, definitely a lot of good info!


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## jabuan (Jan 20, 2013)

Gdaddy said:


> ^^^ You've got me thinking about the HF beads. Also interested in the sheets. I may spring for the beads since I am always having to adjust the KL.


you won't be disappointed.


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## Arizona Dave (Nov 5, 2012)

jabuan said:


> you won't be disappointed.


 "Where" do you get them?


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## Arizona Dave (Nov 5, 2012)

splattttttt said:


> Crystal Cat Litter » ExquisiCat® Crystals Fragrance Free Cat Litter | PetSmart. distilled water MUST be additive free. That means no added salt/mineral of other substances. A jar for use to add water and some sanitized and pure absorbing material like cotton balls or even that green foam ladies like for their decorating projects will work.
> The bigger the humidifier the bigger your active humidification system should be. I usually look at it this way. Dedicate 10-15% of the unit's internal volume for all combined hydration media. These can be stacked or placed side by side.


Jack, I think you've found a good brand. Have you tried it yet?


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## jabuan (Jan 20, 2013)

Arizona Dave said:


> "Where" do you get them?


Heartfelt Industries, Cigar Humidor Humidity Beads, Cigar, Hygrometers and Cigar Accessoriesstore


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## splattttttt (May 17, 2012)

Arizona Dave said:


> Jack, I think you've found a good brand. Have you tried it yet?


the kitty liter, or the green foam substance ladies like to play with when their men folk ain't around / :


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## kenstogie (Jun 14, 2005)

Wow some great info here, I have used hf beads but in haste added h2o in the wrong way. So I fear I may have ruined some of them and am going to give kl a try. At least now I know how did it and will nevrr do that again! Still I am going to try the KL for now.


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## Arizona Dave (Nov 5, 2012)

jabuan said:


> Heartfelt Industries, Cigar Humidor Humidity Beads, Cigar, Hygrometers and Cigar Accessoriesstore


Very very interesting.......I'm going to have to buy a few now


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## Wicked_Rhube (Jul 29, 2012)

I like messing around with humidity media, but I mostly just use Boveda packs because they are so simple. They aren't too expensive if you get a 12 pack from the Monster. They usually have 65% or 69% packs on the "mash-up" every weekend, 12 for $36, free shipping. You can recharge them easy enough, but even if I buy a 12-pack a year thats $3 per month for fool-proof humidification. All the other methods are just fun science experiments to me! I am actually trying to make these "Orbeez" beads my daughter got for Christmas hold in the 70 range, not working so far...


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## splattttttt (May 17, 2012)

Wicked_Rhube said:


> I am actually trying to make these "Orbeez" beads my daughter got for Christmas hold in the 70 range, not working so far...


Hey hey, now you're talkin :wink:


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## gogirlanime (Jul 5, 2012)

WOW I didn't know some people believe only to put in kitty litter. I use humidification beads and kitty litter at the same time until the humidity is perfect and either remove both or leave them both in my humidor and the humidity remains perfect. I am glad you posted this for others though.


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