# Need help with cigar shop business plan...



## Havana Dave (Feb 3, 2013)

Hey all, I've decided to look into opening a cigar shop and lounge and thought that I might pick the brains of any current shop owners. I'd like to know what to expect and what's expected of me? I've never written a business plan and it seems a bit confusing. Any help from a pro would be greatly appreicated. Thank you


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## johnb (Feb 20, 2012)

Hi David,
let me be the first to say welcome to the forum, you may want to pop over to the new puffer fish forum and introduce yourself New Puffer Fish Forum
this way you can introduce yourself and let the guys get to know you. You may have a little more success getting assistance this way.


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## Danny (Feb 2, 2013)

Sorry wrong thread
good luck in your venture


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## Bad Andy (Jul 16, 2011)

There is a lot to know about any business. I certainly wish you success. A good business plan is essential. What type of business experience do you have? Once we know a little more about your plans and ideas, I am sure we can help.


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## mihc45 (May 8, 2012)

My biggest suggestion would be to try to go in and visit as many stores and lounges as possible. Not just the ones in your area but travel to see if something in another city has something differnt then your local ones might have. Then you can see what you like about certain lounges and what you think was a waiste of money. 

I own a few succesfull businesses and only 1 of them i had a actual buisness plan for, sometimes people get too caught up in the buisness plans instead of what the buisness is really about, which for you would be a comfortable place to hang out, smoke, relax, and purchase cigars at good prices and hopefully some boutique ones that are hard to find for consumers. All while hopefully tring to turn a profit.


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## Blue Raccoon (Mar 13, 2011)

hire a Professional.. there's endlessly more to running a shop then throwing stock on a shelve. Endless paperwork,, there is paperwork to fill out paperwork.


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## tatuaje09 (Feb 2, 2013)

Check with your city about licensing and permits. Also be sure that your community will allow such a business. Get an attorney and an accountant. Register your business with the state. Open a business bank account. Seek out suppliers for your products. Find a location, haggle over rent. Stock the shelves. Hire me to create a website and for all your graphic design needs. Promote, promote, promote. Open the doors for business! Promote and promote some more.

Starting any type of business isn't that difficult. Building a clientele and keeping it profitable - now that's the hard part. Good luck!


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## jhedrick83 (Dec 4, 2012)

mihc45 said:


> My biggest suggestion would be to try to go in and visit as many stores and lounges as possible. Not just the ones in your area but travel to see if something in another city has something differnt then your local ones might have. Then you can see what you like about certain lounges and what you think was a waiste of money.


^This. If these are things you have already thought of I apologize, I just wanted to give you the best advice I can. I started my own business about 4 years ago and my advice would be:

1. Visit other shops and lounges to get ideas. Go home and figure the costs for the ideas, to determine if they would be worth it. Example, do you want to offer lockers, sell beer, food, etc.

2. Take your time! Make sure you have everything planned out, unexpected expenses/costs can doom you before you start. Look not just at costs to rent/buy the space your shop will be in but look for the demographic info for the surrounding area. Make sure it is an area that has the average income to support you. Consult with an attorney to figure out the best way to incorporate (LLC, PLLC, Chapter S, etc) to best insulate you from personal costs if the business fails. Don't forget there will be costs such as taxes, insurance, utilities, advertising, inventory, furniture/fixtures for the shop, ventilation, credit card machine fees (Use Square, it's the cheapest!), etc.

3. Once you have figured your monthly costs, figure your profit margin on your merchandise and use that to see how much you will have to sell each month to break even (plus whatever you will need to be paid). See if you feel like this is a realistic number, if not go back and re-evaluate what you offer in terms of product, markup and in-store amenities.

4. Make a marketing plan, try to be creative if you can. The more targeted you can get, the better. Think about what other categories cigar smokers fall into golfers, boaters, etc. Find ways to reach those groups.

5. Running a business is just as much selling yourself to others as it is selling the products. Always be friendly, approachable, helpful and easy going.

6. Make sure you know your local city/states regulations regarding sale of tobacco and smoking.

I hope all this helps!


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## Havana Dave (Feb 3, 2013)

I thank you all for your input. I live in Oklahoma and I'm looking to open in the city of Edmond. After some initial research I've discoverd that the city of about 83,000 has 3 tobacco shops that carry cigars and they all seem to be bunch together on the northwest side of town bording into Oklahoma City. Inside Edmond itself their is a growing population of affulent, educated males from 35-50. I want to tap into this underserved market and create a casual but upscale feel to my shop and offer a lounge to the customer in order to give them a great place to enjoy a smoke. I'm not sure I'll offer alcohol. I was thinking gourmet coffe. I am real good friends with a shop owner and manager of a B&M in Oklahoma City and thought about consulting them with reguards to inventory and finding wholesale dealers. I want my place to appeal to the average joe and the affluent buyer.


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## tatuaje09 (Feb 2, 2013)

Liquor licenses can be very hard to obtain and very very expensive.


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## jhedrick83 (Dec 4, 2012)

Would you carry pipe tobacco and cigarette rolling supplies as well? Coffee would be good, a good espresso machine can be expensive. You would need a fridge for the milk/cream as well. You might want to see if there is a local roaster or chocolatier that you could cross promote with.



Havana Dave said:


> I thank you all for your input. I live in Oklahoma and I'm looking to open in the city of Edmond. After some initial research I've discoverd that the city of about 83,000 has 3 tobacco shops that carry cigars and they all seem to be bunch together on the northwest side of town bording into Oklahoma City. Inside Edmond itself their is a growing population of affulent, educated males from 35-50. I want to tap into this underserved market and create a casual but upscale feel to my shop and offer a lounge to the customer in order to give them a great place to enjoy a smoke. I'm not sure I'll offer alcohol. I was thinking gourmet coffe. I am real good friends with a shop owner and manager of a B&M in Oklahoma City and thought about consulting them with reguards to inventory and finding wholesale dealers. I want my place to appeal to the average joe and the affluent buyer.


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## tatuaje09 (Feb 2, 2013)

jhedrick83 said:


> Would you carry pipe tobacco and cigarette rolling supplies as well? Coffee would be good, a good espresso machine can be expensive. You would need a fridge for the milk/cream as well. You might want to see if there is a local roaster or chocolatier that you could cross promote with.


That might require a food/beverage servers permit. And of course you would need a qualified barista.


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## jhedrick83 (Dec 4, 2012)

Learning to be a Barista is easy, I spent 3 years of college working in a local shop. Might need permits, but it's worth a look.


tatdiesel said:


> That might require a food/beverage servers permit. And of course you would need a qualified barista.


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## tatuaje09 (Feb 2, 2013)

jhedrick83 said:


> Learning to be a Barista is easy, I spent 3 years of college working in a local shop. Might need permits, but it's worth a look.


I agree. It's much more safe than selling alcohol. Less liability.


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## mihc45 (May 8, 2012)

If you really wanted to have coffee i would look into if there were any gourmet coffee trucks in the area and see if they can park outside your lounge for your busy times to help promote eachother. This would take care of you needing a permit/supplies/machines/baristas.


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## ghe-cl (Apr 9, 2005)

First, call the local chamber of commerce, SBA branch and community college to see if they have a mentoring program that can hook you up with someone highly experienced . You need to do some serious work on demographics. Just how big and growing is that group of affluent males? Observation isn't very reliable. Get the census data, down to census tracts and see exactly what the numbers are. To be quite honest, I think that the area seems awfully small to support four tobacco shops. Figure 20% are too young to smoke, you're down to about 60,000. At least half of them are women, so only a tiny percentage of them are potential customers, and that puts you at 30,000. At least 10% are too old, ill, infirm, poor, etc., to be customers. I'd guess that 5% would be generous when you're estimating the percentage of those remaining are cigar smokers, but let's be crazy and say it's double that. So, you're looking at a pool of only about 2,700. They're already somebody's customer, so you'll have to "steal" most of your customers. (Things like supplying local golf courses, etc., are already being done, so you'll have to work for that business, too, most likely by cutting deeply into your profit margin.) Given that it's unlikely most cigar smokers will regularly visit a store more than 8-10 miles from their home or office, you're down to probably a potential 1,000 at best. Of course, I could be way off. There may be specific things about your location that I'm obviously not taking into account. But these are the kinds of things you need to seriously consider, not just whether you're going to serve espresso or cappuccino.


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## tatuaje09 (Feb 2, 2013)

ghe said:


> Of course, I could be way off.


I'm not sure where you're getting your figures from. Especially considering you don't know the demographics of that area.


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## ghe-cl (Apr 9, 2005)

tatdiesel said:


> I'm not sure where you're getting your figures from. Especially considering you don't know the demographics of that area.


I just looked up census data for the city (http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/40/4023200.html) and then rounded for simplicity. I don't think I'm off about any of my general assumptions, most of which are common sense. I was just saying I there could be something specific about his potential shop location that could make a difference.


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## tatuaje09 (Feb 2, 2013)

I agree with you concerns, but I wouldn't feel comfortable giving figures as we don't really know what's going on in the op's area.


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## Stillinger (Jan 29, 2013)

No, he doesn't know exactly. But that's still some of the cut and dry factors that have to be taken into consideration. Smoking cigars, and smoking in general, is still a niche. 

What's his potential customer base? That's the big factor. If there's a decent potential client base, what margins will he have to sell at to make a profit? Will the area sustain those numbers? 

That's also why in his original post he was talking about how some of the other stores are on the border with OKC. There's more potential clients. 

The area I'm at in Maryland is a similar area. We've got one store that does a decent business. I imagine a second store in a town 30-40 minutes from here, say in Calvert County MD could do a decent business as well. But that's still a bit dicey based on how much foot traffic they'll get.


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## Havana Dave (Feb 3, 2013)

mihc45 said:


> If you really wanted to have coffee i would look into if there were any gourmet coffee trucks in the area and see if they can park outside your lounge for your busy times to help promote eachother. This would take care of you needing a permit/supplies/machines/baristas.


That's a great idea!


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## Havana Dave (Feb 3, 2013)

jhedrick83 said:


> Would you carry pipe tobacco and cigarette rolling supplies as well? Coffee would be good, a good espresso machine can be expensive. You would need a fridge for the milk/cream as well. You might want to see if there is a local roaster or chocolatier that you could cross promote with.


Yes, I would carry pipes and pipe tobacco. I would also have Hookas and shisha. Plus all the expected accessories.


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## Havana Dave (Feb 3, 2013)

ghe said:


> First, call the local chamber of commerce, SBA branch and community college to see if they have a mentoring program that can hook you up with someone highly experienced . You need to do some serious work on demographics. Just how big and growing is that group of affluent males? Observation isn't very reliable. Get the census data, down to census tracts and see exactly what the numbers are. To be quite honest, I think that the area seems awfully small to support four tobacco shops. Figure 20% are too young to smoke, you're down to about 60,000. At least half of them are women, so only a tiny percentage of them are potential customers, and that puts you at 30,000. At least 10% are too old, ill, infirm, poor, etc., to be customers. I'd guess that 5% would be generous when you're estimating the percentage of those remaining are cigar smokers, but let's be crazy and say it's double that. So, you're looking at a pool of only about 2,700. They're already somebody's customer, so you'll have to "steal" most of your customers. (Things like supplying local golf courses, etc., are already being done, so you'll have to work for that business, too, most likely by cutting deeply into your profit margin.) Given that it's unlikely most cigar smokers will regularly visit a store more than 8-10 miles from their home or office, you're down to probably a potential 1,000 at best. Of course, I could be way off. There may be specific things about your location that I'm obviously not taking into account. But these are the kinds of things you need to seriously consider, not just whether you're going to serve espresso or cappuccino.


All great points that I need to consider. I'm just not sure where to look for the needed data. Do you know?


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## johnb (Feb 20, 2012)

have a look here International Premium Cigar & Pipe Retailers it is the ipcpr website, they will have some valuable info for B&M owners


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## ghe-cl (Apr 9, 2005)

Havana Dave said:


> All great points that I need to consider. I'm just not sure where to look for the needed data. Do you know?


Here's where you can find quick census data on Edmond: Edmond (city) QuickFacts from the US Census Bureau This site will help you use census data in all kinds of ways: Data Access Tools Your local chamber of commerce: Edmond Area Chamber of Commerce


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## ghe-cl (Apr 9, 2005)

tatdiesel said:


> I agree with you concerns, but I wouldn't feel comfortable giving figures as we don't really know what's going on in the op's area.


I'm not "giving figures." I'm using census data -- Edmond pop., 82,963; under 18, 24.8%; females, 51.6%; 65 and older, 11.1%; below poverty level, 10.1% -- and doing some minor extrapolation. Sure, there could be variations around a specific locale, say one at a college campus or next to a convent. But overall, those figures are what they are for the city he's considering for a business. The kind of hard, cold facts that need to be considered by anyone going into business and expecting to make a profit.


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## tatuaje09 (Feb 2, 2013)

ghe said:


> I'm not "giving figures." I'm using census data -- Edmond pop., 82,963; under 18, 24.8%; females, 51.6%; 65 and older, 11.1%; below poverty level, 10.1% -- and doing some minor extrapolation. Sure, there could be variations around a specific locale, say one at a college campus or next to a convent. But overall, those figures are what they are for the city he's considering for a business. The kind of hard, cold facts that need to be considered by anyone going into business and expecting to make a profit.


Consenus data is still figures. Regardless, this data takes a backseat if you are good at finding a niche and marketing. By using these figures you are pigeon-holing his success rate. A good salesman can sell a ketchup popsicle to an eskimo.


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## Havana Dave (Feb 3, 2013)

ghe said:


> I'm not "giving figures." I'm using census data -- Edmond pop., 82,963; under 18, 24.8%; females, 51.6%; 65 and older, 11.1%; below poverty level, 10.1% -- and doing some minor extrapolation. Sure, there could be variations around a specific locale, say one at a college campus or next to a convent. But overall, those figures are what they are for the city he's considering for a business. The kind of hard, cold facts that need to be considered by anyone going into business and expecting to make a profit.


Thanks for the links! They will definatley help. much appreciated!


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## Havana Dave (Feb 3, 2013)

Are there any shop owners that would allow me to look at their business plan? Just to give me an idea of what to include.


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## Damselnotindistress (Aug 7, 2011)

Just a few "nuts 'n bolts" details to greatly consider:

1. Whether your business is going to be "incorporated" or "LLC/LLP" which is Limited Liability Co. or if you're going to have additional partners, Limited Liability Partnership. A regular corporation is just that - Inc. But then you have what's called an "S" Corp. A regular corporation is 500 employees or more/an "S" Corp. is 500 employees or less. And as you know incorporating your business is how you protect yourself legally should some yah-hoo somewhere decide he/she wants some free money and tries to sue you because they say they got hurt from your product. But when it comes to your tax return there are some personal deductions you're disallowed due to incorporating. I only know this because my cousin tried to incorporate and was told she couldn't claim some personal ordinary deductions she was used to being able to. Then, in the late 1990's they came out with what's called "Limited Liability" companies so you could both use your same ordinary personal tax deductions AND have the protection of a corporation. In short, you have the best of both worlds. As a shop owner it may not be advisable to be a "Sole Proprietorship", because if anything "happens" - you're on your own. You can be sued for your house, your car, your first born, etc., etc. A corporation or Limited Liability company can only surrender items belonging to the business. And of course we're only talking about worst case scenarios.

2. As far as your clientele you may have in mind sophisticated premium handmade cigar smokers as your customer base. But be prepared - those "Black & Milds", machine-made El Producto's, King Edwards, and so on aren't sticking around due to persons being too embarrassed or unwilling to be seen buying those. You might want to keep at least a few of these selections on hand despite what they may be in our opinion. A business doesn't just fail due to lack of sales. Sometimes a business goes under - SURPRISE - because of so many orders coming through you can't meet demand. 

3. And yes, definitely consulting other tobacconists and B&M owners is wise, HOWEVER, and I do mean a big however, never come across to them as a competitor. You might have to use your wits in this, but remember THEY have to make sales and retain a customer base. They may not be too helpful if you come off like you're going to steal business from them.

Some of this you may already be aware of or have previously researched. 'Sure hope this is some help :smile: And best of wishes to you.


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## sdlaird (Mar 15, 2011)

Couldn't provide you with a business plan, but I will give you my thoughts as a semi-regular B&M customer.

Believe it or not, #1 on my list is good ventilation. I think it is overlooked by many or simply impractical for a lot of locations. Obviously, I do not have a problem with cigar smoke, but I don't want to have to worry about oozing cigar smoke if I have to meet up with someone afterwards. Too many B&M's have poor ventilation causing smoke to stagnate and saturate. Finally, (see below) if you are to attract a broader customer base including non-cigar smokers, it is essential.

#2 on my list is something to drink. I know that liquor licenses are expensive, but IMO well worth it. Also, a beer and wine license is easier to obtain than a full liquor license and might be a halfway starting point. This can help two fold. First, there is a high profit margin on beer and wine and would provide extra income. Second, it gives non-cigar smokers a reason to visit your lounge. (This is another good reason for #1 above) At worst, have bottled water, sodas and maybe something of a variety of rootbeers. A lot of people like root beer with their cigars. I actually like ginger beer.

Those are my "customer comments" on the issue. Good luck and keep us posted.


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## jhedrick83 (Dec 4, 2012)

sdlaird said:


> #1 on my list is good ventilation.


^^ This as well. Nothing kills my desire to go to a B&M more than know if if there are more than a couple people in there smoking it will be a fog.


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## sdlaird (Mar 15, 2011)

jhedrick83 said:


> ^^ This as well. Nothing kills my desire to go to a B&M more than know if if there are more than a couple people in there smoking it will be a fog.


Thanks! It's important, but often over looked!


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## yaqui (Apr 11, 2011)

jhedrick83 said:


> ^^ This as well. Nothing kills my desire to go to a B&M more than know if if there are more than a couple people in there smoking it will be a fog.


me too.

Also it would be nice to just pay a cutting fee if I wanted to sit and smoke one of my own. Two or three bucks would okay with me.


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## Arnie (Jan 5, 2009)

There is a lot of great advice here already, but I will put in my 2 cents. I am in the restaurant business so I cannot speak directly to a cigar shop, however, I have seen dozens of businesses fail.

Make sure you have enough capitalization. I can't tell you how many times I've seen restaurants fail because the new owners failed to have enough money to get going. Start-up will always cost more than you think, there will always be some unexpected expense. Figure your start up costs and then add 15 to 20 percent.

Due diligence. Check out any lease with a lawyer before you sign. Visit the city regulators and building folks before you start and make sure you know what hoops they will make you jump through BEFORE you start. There is nothing like a surprise from some bureaucrat who pops in to tell you you'll have to spend 150,000 dollars on a brand new sprinkler system or you can't open. 

Insurance. Get more than you need, and get an umbrella policy to cover the unexpected. They are relatively cheap. Say someone slips on the ice outside your shop, breaks his nose and requires plastic surgery and the landlord's insurance won't cover it......he's coming for you. 

Try like crazy to avoid the "all blue sky syndrome". When we are about to open a business it is so easy to see all the good things that will make us a success and ignore the downside. Why will people come to your shop instead of the one they already frequent? You better have something the other shops don't offer, like great selection and great prices, the best service, a better smoking lounge, a knowledgeable staff, a polite and helpful staff, etc. You have one chance to convert a patron of another store, MAYBE two. Make it count. 

Learn the percentages in your industry. What is standard markup in retail cigar shops? What percentage does the average shop devote to lounge square footage compared to inventory? What percent should your rent be, labor cost? Can you cover all your overhead and have enough to live on? How many customers per day will have to buy a cigar or two to make the rent and all other expenses? What is the average profit percent for a shop? 

Lastly, I always ask people who want my advice about opening a restaurant..... how much are you willing to lose before you pull the plug? Think about it. I have seen many people keep pouring good money down a rat hole thinking it is going to turn around. Set a figure in your mind BEFORE you start. I hate to be the voice of doom, but almost three quarters of start up businesses fail. Be mindful of that figure, it should haunt you just a little bit. It will motivate you to do better than the other guy.

Good luck.


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## Arnie (Jan 5, 2009)

Damselnotindistress said:


> Just a few "nuts 'n bolts" details to greatly consider:
> 
> 1. Whether your business is going to be "incorporated" or "LLC/LLP" which is Limited Liability Co. or if you're going to have additional partners, Limited Liability Partnership. A regular corporation is just that - Inc. But then you have what's called an "S" Corp. A regular corporation is 500 employees or more/an "S" Corp. is 500 employees or less. And as you know incorporating your business is how you protect yourself legally should some yah-hoo somewhere decide he/she wants some free money and tries to sue you because they say they got hurt from your product. But when it comes to your tax return there are some personal deductions you're disallowed due to incorporating. I only know this because my cousin tried to incorporate and was told she couldn't claim some personal ordinary deductions she was used to being able to. Then, in the late 1990's they came out with what's called "Limited Liability" companies so you could both use your same ordinary personal tax deductions AND have the protection of a corporation. In short, you have the best of both worlds. As a shop owner it may not be advisable to be a "Sole Proprietorship", because if anything "happens" - you're on your own. You can be sued for your house, your car, your first born, etc., etc. A corporation or Limited Liability company can only surrender items belonging to the business. And of course we're only talking about worst case scenarios.
> 
> ...


Excellent advice, especially the LLC. I tried to bump you, I have to spread some love around first.


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## Necmo (Oct 29, 2012)

Arnie said:


> Make sure you have enough capitalization. I can't tell you how many times I've seen restaurants fail because the new owners failed to have enough money to get going. Start-up will always cost more than you think, there will always be some unexpected expense. Figure your start up costs and then add 15 to 20 percent.


Excellent advice right there. No matter how much you plan and crunch numbers, there will always be miscellaneous and/or unexpected expenses that you didn't think of during budgeting.


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## jhedrick83 (Dec 4, 2012)

Agreed. The way I planned was that I counted on having no business for 6 months, figured my costs and did open doors until I had that cash in reserve. That may be a bit much, but planning for the worst and hoping for the best can make the difference between success and failure. There will be enough stress when you first start, try to minimize it as much as possible.


Necmo said:


> Excellent advice right there. No matter how much you plan and crunch numbers, there will always be miscellaneous and/or unexpected expenses that you didn't think of during budgeting.


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## MarkC (Jul 4, 2009)

Arnie said:


> Lastly, I always ask people who want my advice about opening a restaurant..... how much are you willing to lose before you pull the plug? Think about it. I have seen many people keep pouring good money down a rat hole thinking it is going to turn around. Set a figure in your mind BEFORE you start. I hate to be the voice of doom, but almost three quarters of start up businesses fail. Be mindful of that figure, it should haunt you just a little bit. It will motivate you to do better than the other guy.


Damn, I wish I'd heard this one before I took my one shot at running a business. I would have been a lot better off to pull the plug six months earlier and not run my finances into the ground.


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## Havana Dave (Feb 3, 2013)

All of you have given me important things to think about. I really appreicate it. It's helping me. 

Also, I want to hear from anyone who has a list of "likes and dislikes" about a B&M store/lounge. What makes you come back? Stay away?


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## Blue Raccoon (Mar 13, 2011)

*I would also have Hookas and shisha*

imo, serious cigar and pipe smokers will tend to stay away.


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## piperdown (Jul 19, 2009)

Dislikes:
having to travel more than 25 minutes to get to one
'attitude', meaning they're friendly but they're the baddest, most cool awesome place. One around here, great lounge but the marketing puts me off.
Smoking fog from poor ventilation. Can be tricky because you can end up spending a fortune on a great HVAC and the required air changes can drive up utility costs

Likes:
Open space
Good selection of cigars
Something to drink such as wine or beer
Friendly knowledgeable staff
Games; poker table (play for points or something), checkers, darts, etc. Not too many, just something to get people together.
Good selection of magazines

I travel for work and have visited many B&M's across a large section of the US. My favorite physical location is in Melbourne Florida called Executive Cigar. Open, airy, tastefully decorated. Selection is not great and the staff are okay but not up to par.
We have quite a few B&M's around here. I wish I could get the staff and customers from Cigar and Tabbac and combine them with the selection and space of Outlaw Cigar South and throw in Diebels taste. That would be fantastic. Only way to make it better would be if it was only a few minutes away.


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## jhedrick83 (Dec 4, 2012)

Likes:

Ventilation, Comfortable furniture, TVs with sports, friendly staff, beer/liquor/coffee, tons of accessories (lighters, cutters, humidor acessories like bovedas, gels, etc), humidors both desktop and travel, clean bathrooms, uncramped humidor, competitive pricing (I don't mind paying a bit extra to buy locally, just don't try and screw me), music can be nice just don't blast it. Emails about deals/events are always welcome as well.

Dislikes:
Poor Ventilation, Cramped humidor, cramped lounge, pushy salesman, loud spaces (I'm going to relax, nothing but hard surfaces can make for one loud lounge.) Difficult to get in and out of traffic wise, same cigars every time, only the "big" brands like Romeo, Punch, Mac, Cohiba, etc. Constant email spamming...


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## Thoroughbred (Jul 19, 2011)

Blue Raccoon said:


> *I would also have Hookas and shisha*
> 
> imo, serious cigar and pipe smokers will tend to stay away.


I have to agree with this. In my opinion, you're either catering to an upscale clientele or to younger smokers who smoke hookas and shisha. To put it in perspective, how many _upscale_ cigar shops have you see that also offer hookas and shisha? By the same token, how many affluent cigar smokers do you see in shops that cater to hipsters?

Nothing against either party, but they don't often cross the line.


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## tatuaje09 (Feb 2, 2013)

Definitely no bongs!!!!


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## JohnHayCigars (Sep 29, 2006)

Dave, good luck. It is a fun business to have. I opened my shop 8 months ago. I did not have a business plan yet. My wife and I had just started talking about opening a shop and the plan was for a year away. A shop came available in what we felt was the best location around for many miles so within a week of the offer we were stocking shelves. It was way too quick but we had nothing to lose and do not regret it. We also have our own cigar company which helps a lot. We have had income from internet sales for about 9 years now. The store is now also our shipping dept., stock and main office. We are in a tourist town near Lancaster, PA so all summer long we have a steady line of bus traffic. I am finding plenty of extra time through the winter for paper work, organizing events, planning specials, etc.


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## ghe-cl (Apr 9, 2005)

As others have noted, there is a terrific amount of good advice on this post. As several also note, you need in your early stages to decide what type of clientele you're going after. Everyone likes to talk about how cigars are a great social leveler and you'll find judges and bricklayers chatting in a cigar shop. That's true to a certain degree, but I think that the common denominator there is the clients' cigar interest. That isn't always the case among cigar smokers and there are small niches in the already small cigar business as well. It's almost impossible to cater to them all. A younger crowd is more likely to want later hours, music, alcohol and a kind of lively place. An older crowd is generally going to be turned off by almost any and all of those. Trying to do both is extremely difficult. Think of shops along a spectrum of dominoes to disco. 
My strongest advice would be to invest in several weeks of traveling to talk with cigar shop owners outside your area where they won't consider you competition. Pick their brains, take notes, ask a thousand questions. If I were doing this, I'd see if someone would let me work in their shop for a week or two just to soak up what goes on.


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## piperdown (Jul 19, 2009)

jhedrick83 said:


> Likes:
> 
> Ventilation, Comfortable furniture, TVs with sports, friendly staff, beer/liquor/coffee, tons of accessories (lighters, cutters, humidor acessories like bovedas, gels, etc), humidors both desktop and travel, clean bathrooms, uncramped humidor, competitive pricing (I don't mind paying a bit extra to buy locally, just don't try and screw me), music can be nice just don't blast it. Emails about deals/events are always welcome as well.
> 
> ...


Great point about music being too loud! Something light like classical spanish guitar, BVSC or along those lines.


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## Under A Mountain (May 24, 2007)

Does Oklahoma have a lottery? If so get a terminal. Most State lotteries pay 6 cents on the dollar. Doesn't sound like much but it ads up. Also there is no outlay to you, they supply the pencils, the game cards, the paper, and the ink. You just collect the cash. You might even attract people who don't smoke into your store with it.


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## tatuaje09 (Feb 2, 2013)

JohnHayCigars said:


> Dave, good luck. It is a fun business to have. I opened my shop 8 months ago. I did not have a business plan yet. My wife and I had just started talking about opening a shop and the plan was for a year away. A shop came available in what we felt was the best location around for many miles so within a week of the offer we were stocking shelves. It was way too quick but we had nothing to lose and do not regret it. We also have our own cigar company which helps a lot. We have had income from internet sales for about 9 years now. The store is now also our shipping dept., stock and main office. We are in a tourist town near Lancaster, PA so all summer long we have a steady line of bus traffic. I am finding plenty of extra time through the winter for paper work, organizing events, planning specials, etc.


Glad to hear about your success. :rockon:


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## Blue Raccoon (Mar 13, 2011)

Under A Mountain said:


> Does Oklahoma have a lottery? If so get a terminal. Most State lotteries pay 6 cents on the dollar. Doesn't sound like much but it ads up. Also there is no outlay to you, they supply the pencils, the game cards, the paper, and the ink. You just collect the cash. You might even attract people who don't smoke into your store with it.


seriously??

maybe add a 'pole' for dancing and have amateur night.. that should bring them in.


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## JohnHayCigars (Sep 29, 2006)

tatdiesel said:


> Glad to hear about your success. :rockon:


Thanks tat.


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## Under A Mountain (May 24, 2007)

Not sure I see the correlation between selling state sanctioned gambling and a pole.
Anecdotal evidence time.

My friends smoke shop did about $14,000 a week in lottery. At 6 cents on the dollar that's over 3 grand a month or almost 40 grand a year. I don't know too many small business owners who would turn their nose up at that kind of revenue.

And belive me, the times I was in there smoking, seeing a guy buy a lottery ticket didn't ruin the taste of my cigar.


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## ghe-cl (Apr 9, 2005)

Under A Mountain said:


> Not sure I see the correlation between selling state sanctioned gambling and a pole.
> Anecdotal evidence time.
> 
> My friends smoke shop did about $14,000 a week in lottery. At 6 cents on the dollar that's over 3 grand a month or almost 40 grand a year. I don't know too many small business owners who would turn their nose up at that kind of revenue.
> ...


It's an interesting issue. I don't think I've ever seen a cigar shop with a lounge and premium cigar selection selling lottery tickets. On the other hand, it's pretty common in cigarette/head/tobacco shops, especially those located in a high-traffic area. I think that might be the key. A shop that's not in a high-traffic area would probably pull in few people with lottery tickets. On the other hand, a shop in a high-traffic area probably would have considerable competition for lottery ticket sales from other retailers.


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## Under A Mountain (May 24, 2007)

ghe said:


> It's an interesting issue. I don't think I've ever seen a cigar shop with a lounge and premium cigar selection selling lottery tickets. On the other hand, it's pretty common in cigarette/head/tobacco shops, especially those located in a high-traffic area. I think that might be the key. A shop that's not in a high-traffic area would probably pull in few people with lottery tickets. On the other hand, a shop in a high-traffic area probably would have considerable competition for lottery ticket sales from other retailers.


I see your points ghe. In my opinion I'd try and sell everything related to tobacco and then some. My fantasy store would be combo tobacco shop/lounge. Candy, chips, sodas, newspapers, lottery. Anything within reason for revenue, and foot traffic. You want Marlboro Lights, hell I'll sell them to you. Pouch of Redman?, no problem.

Good luck OP


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## ivanrod007 (Feb 24, 2008)

Havana Dave said:


> I thank you all for your input. I live in Oklahoma and I'm looking to open in the city of Edmond. After some initial research I've discoverd that the city of about 83,000 has 3 tobacco shops that carry cigars and they all seem to be bunch together on the northwest side of town bording into Oklahoma City. Inside Edmond itself their is a growing population of affulent, educated males from 35-50. I want to tap into this underserved market and create a casual but upscale feel to my shop and offer a lounge to the customer in order to give them a great place to enjoy a smoke. I'm not sure I'll offer alcohol. I was thinking gourmet coffe. I am real good friends with a shop owner and manager of a B&M in Oklahoma City and thought about consulting them with reguards to inventory and finding wholesale dealers. I want my place to appeal to the average joe and the affluent buyer.


Havana Dave good luck with your business. We opened a cigar bar in Dallas 4 years ago and it has been both difficult and fun. Here in Dallas there are many cigar shops, but because of a smoke ban in the city we have only a couple of cigar bars where you can still smoke inside. Because of our location our cigar bar is a bit more expensive than your regular shop; we also offer a full bar which attracts a lot of people (male and female). What we noticed is that people that don't mind paying a bit more for a good cigar and a comfortable place to relax, will spend more money on premium drinks and will bring friends and clients. A liquor license is a must if you want to bring better clients. Very important also is a good ventilation system; you don't want your clients visiting the bar to smell like smoke, or not be able to see thru the cloud of smoke in the bar. After that is comfortable couches, nice set ups for 4 people or more (like a social club), good wholesale cigar distributor, good location, and friendly staff. Most people that visit us rave about our staff, and rum selection. You should visit us sometime if you are in Dallas: Havana Social Club outside of AA center.
Best of luck
Ivan R.


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