# New developments between U.S. and Cuba



## dyj48 (May 1, 2006)

Well, I don't know if this will lead to anything, but the size of the delegation speaks to some possible new developments regarding the trade embargo...

http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/news/world/16254590.htm

http://www.abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory?id=2729915


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## DriftyGypsy (May 24, 2006)

I am wondering, while it is against the law for an American anywhere to posess a Cuban cigar what is the diplomatic thing to do when you are a Congressman on a fact finding mission to Cuba and you are presented a box of Cuba's finest. It would be an insult not to accept them. Do you bring them back and give them to customs to destroy? 

o


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## Bob (Jun 29, 2006)

Good Question!!:r


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## Sancho (Oct 13, 2006)

That would be illegal though correct? You cannot posses, for any length of time, cuban cigars be it in the states or abroad. Or am I worng in that statement?


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## Lumpold (Apr 28, 2005)

DriftyGypsy said:


> I am wondering, while it is against the law for an American anywhere to posess a Cuban cigar what is the diplomatic thing to do when you are a Congressman on a fact finding mission to Cuba and you are presented a box of Cuba's finest. It would be an insult not to accept them. Do you bring them back and give them to customs to destroy?
> 
> o


I do believe that's the idea! Didn't someone make their press secretary do that? I don't remember who though.


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## DriftyGypsy (May 24, 2006)

Now suppose you are the Customs man when the 10 Congressmen return and you are given only 8 boxes of illegal Cuban cigars... 

o


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## Lumpold (Apr 28, 2005)

See, my memory is saying Pierre Salinger was made to hand over some cubans by one of the Kennedy brothers. But I can't remember. They got them from a Russian diplomat (or president, I don't remember!)
Edit: http://www.cigaraficionado.com/Cigar/CA_Archives/CA_Show_Article/0,2322,1319,00.html Pierre Salinger, 250 cuban smokes from Kruschev, JFK makes him hand them over to Customs.


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## icehog3 (Feb 20, 2005)

Lumpold said:


> See, my memory is saying Pierre Salinger was made to hand over some cubans by one of the Kennedy brothers. But I can't remember. They got them from a Russian diplomat (or president, I don't remember!)
> Edit: http://www.cigaraficionado.com/Cigar/CA_Archives/CA_Show_Article/0,2322,1319,00.html Pierre Salinger, 250 cuban smokes from Kruschev, JFK makes him hand them over to Customs.


I would have defected!!! :r


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## Tristan (Jul 11, 2006)

I was speaking with a lawyer a couple months ago. He said that although it is illegal for a US Citizen to buy/smoke cuban cigars outside the US the case would be thrown out if put before a court. He said our constitutional rights would block a prosecution.

I would think our government officials would be held by a higher standard, but that's a standard rarely upheld.

If I were a cuban diplomat offering any gift of any kind I would be offended if it were refused. But that's just my opinion! :w


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## DriftyGypsy (May 24, 2006)

Actually I do believe it is against the law for the President and Vice-President to KEEP any gift given by a head of state or diplomat over a certain dollar amount. They have to turn it over to the GAO or someone, I do not know if the same holds true for Congressmen and/or Senators.


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## Lumpold (Apr 28, 2005)

icehog3 said:


> I would have defected!!! :r


I, IceHog3, do solemnly swear to pledge allegience to the state of The Penalty Box...


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## LSUTIGER (Jan 13, 2004)

Sancho said:


> That would be illegal though correct? You cannot posses, for any length of time, cuban cigars be it in the states or abroad. Or am I worng in that statement?


unless you are a government official 'on the take' :tg


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## icehog3 (Feb 20, 2005)

LSUTIGER said:


> unless you are a government official 'on the take' :tg


I haven't heard that phrase since Charles Bronson stopped making movies.


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## DriftyGypsy (May 24, 2006)

LSUTIGER said:


> unless you are a government official 'on the take' :tg


Excuse me, I have absolute trust that all our New Jersey government officials are honest law abiding folks, and would never store their savings in their freezer.


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## M1903A1 (Jun 7, 2006)

Actually, I have read that our illustrious Congresscritters have exempted themselves from such rules, which are of course intended only for us proles and not to be followed by the anointed.... :tg


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## donp (Mar 5, 2006)

Lumpold said:


> See, my memory is saying Pierre Salinger was made to hand over some cubans by one of the Kennedy brothers. But I can't remember. They got them from a Russian diplomat (or president, I don't remember!)
> Edit: http://www.cigaraficionado.com/Cigar/CA_Archives/CA_Show_Article/0,2322,1319,00.html Pierre Salinger, 250 cuban smokes from Kruschev, JFK makes him hand them over to Customs.


I believe US officals are required to claim or record gifts given by foreign officials with some registry back in Washington. I am not clear on the policy or the procedure though.


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## Thurm15 (Jan 28, 2005)

This Embargo ain't going anywhere for a while. As long as Communism reigns in Cuba, the Political Prisoners remain in Jail and there are no Free Elections, the US Government will keep the Embargo in place.


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## awesome1 (Dec 13, 2006)

Although it is illegal to purchase cuban cigars unless they are pre embargo it is ok to recieve them as gifts.


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## M1903A1 (Jun 7, 2006)

awesome1 said:


> Although it is illegal to purchase cuban cigars unless they are pre embargo it is ok to recieve them as gifts.


WRONG-O-RAMA!

It's illegal to possess even so much as a used band if it's post-embargo!

For a long time there was a loophole, wherein an American with a "legitimate" reason to visit Cuba could bring back a certain amount of Cuban goods (officially $100 worth, but I think this was often stretched to accomodate one and only one box of cigars or bottle of rum). This has since been terminated.


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## awesome1 (Dec 13, 2006)

M1903A1 said:


> WRONG-O-RAMA!
> 
> It's illegal to possess even so much as a used band if it's post-embargo!
> 
> For a long time there was a loophole, wherein an American with a "legitimate" reason to visit Cuba could bring back a certain amount of Cuban goods (officially $100 worth, but I think this was often stretched to accomodate one and only one box of cigars or bottle of rum). This has since been terminated.


If you did bring back cigars during this time period then it would not be illegal to posses them would it since you bought them in a time frame that was acceptable.

It is also not against the law if I were visiting a friend in Canada and he gave me a cigar to smoke or even a box of cigars to smoke. It is illegal to make a purchase at this time.

As you noted it was legal to bring back one box of cigars at one point in time I believe in 03 that was stopped and the regulations changed to where you could no longer spend money in Cuba and then after that the regulations changed again, in July or Aug 05 to where you could no longer travel to cuba without a license.

Of course many of us feel that this is unconstitutional and when brought before the supreme court they concurred.

Anyway, the bottom line is if you have a cuban cigar in your possession or even a box or two you have the legal right to do so. If however you have lots of purchases on your cc from overseas vendors then you might have something to worry about..

Last saturday i recieved an 8300 fine from ofac for traveling to cba in may.. I expect another one for my june trip, probably in january.. If they dont negotiate both of them to under 1000 then I will ask for the hearing in DC.


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## niterider56 (Jun 30, 2006)

Okay lets be real, the only reason those %#*&^@! theives went down their was to get smokes for the holiday season.


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## boonedoggle (Jun 23, 2006)

awesome1 said:


> If you did bring back cigars during this time period then it would not be illegal to posses them would it since you bought them in a time frame that was acceptable.
> 
> It is also not against the law if I were visiting a friend in Canada and he gave me a cigar to smoke or even a box of cigars to smoke. It is illegal to make a purchase at this time.
> 
> ...


Well, if you do come up to DC, we'll have to have a herf in your honor!


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## awesome1 (Dec 13, 2006)

I'll know after I respond to the letter and see what thier response is. Even if I dont though Im always game for a little travel and cigars and I like DC so we can herf anyway!!!


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## DriftyGypsy (May 24, 2006)

niterider56 said:


> Okay lets be real, the only reason those %#*&^@! theives went down their was to get smokes for the holiday season.


They were probably tired of getting fakes off the internet


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## dyj48 (May 1, 2006)

This is another article from the Boston Globe. Apparently, there is a movement to open up travel between the U.S. and Cuba. Congressman Delahunt from Massachusetts will be requesting hearings to end the ban on travel to Cuba.

http://www.boston.com/news/local/ma...hunt_pushes_for_end_to_us_travel_ban_on_cuba/


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## icehog3 (Feb 20, 2005)

dyj48 said:


> This is another article from the Boston Globe. Apparently, there is a movement to open up travel between the U.S. and Cuba. Congressman Delahunt from Massachusetts will be requesting hearings to end the ban on travel to Cuba.
> 
> http://www.boston.com/news/local/ma...hunt_pushes_for_end_to_us_travel_ban_on_cuba/


Great...I can see the Chucky Cheeses' being built promptly.


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## Bob (Jun 29, 2006)

icehog3 said:


> Great...I can see the Chucky Cheeses' being built promptly.


Does that mean we can get the hammer and hit the squirrel on the head??


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## donp (Mar 5, 2006)

icehog3 said:


> Great...I can see the Chucky Cheeses' being built promptly.


Don't forget about the McDonald's


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## blawmt (Dec 12, 2006)

I am a government employee and we all follow the same rules to a point. I can not accept a gift of greater value then $25.00 USD unless that gift is given customerely to everyone. I can also accept that gift if by my denial of that gift would be a cultural insult. All gifts have to be declared to your immediate department head. Diplomatic gifts (ceremonial weapons, jewelery, etc) given to an attache of the United States are considered gifts to the entire nation. These are often kept at presidential libraries, the White House, museums, etc. Who knows how well they are followed. 

Those are the rules as I understand them. However embargo items are still embargo items.


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## papajohn67 (May 25, 2006)

Thurm15 said:


> This Embargo ain't going anywhere for a while. As long as Communism reigns in Cuba, the Political Prisoners remain in Jail and there are no Free Elections, the US Government will keep the Embargo in place.


At 1st blush your post made me blink....thought you were talking about China. Just picked up our brand new "made in China" artificial Xmas tree from Target last night. Good thing stuff from Commie China ain't embargoed. I hear their also pretty darn good to their Political Prisoners. Wonder if one of them made our tree?


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## cvm4 (Sep 10, 2005)

It's a start atleast...I hope...


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## donp (Mar 5, 2006)

blawmt said:


> I am a government employee and we all follow the same rules to a point. I can not accept a gift of greater value then $25.00 USD unless that gift is given customerely to everyone. I can also accept that gift if by my denial of that gift would be a cultural insult. All gifts have to be declared to your immediate department head. Diplomatic gifts (ceremonial weapons, jewelery, etc) given to an attache of the United States are considered gifts to the entire nation. These are often kept at presidential libraries, the White House, museums, etc. Who knows how well they are followed.
> 
> Those are the rules as I understand them. However embargo items are still embargo items.


Thanks for the clarification blawmt. 
Happy holidays.


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## dyj48 (May 1, 2006)

Well, this is also interesting, Congressman Flake from Arizona is also working to change the current status between Cuba and US. The stew is brewing, folks, let's see if the cauldron boils over into real changes in our relationships with Cuba....

http://www.tucsoncitizen.com/daily/local/36427.php


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## TheDirector (Nov 22, 2006)

Lumpold said:


> See, my memory is saying Pierre Salinger was made to hand over some cubans by one of the Kennedy brothers. But I can't remember. They got them from a Russian diplomat (or president, I don't remember!)
> Edit: http://www.cigaraficionado.com/Cigar/CA_Archives/CA_Show_Article/0,2322,1319,00.html Pierre Salinger, 250 cuban smokes from Kruschev, JFK makes him hand them over to Customs.


Great Article. I wonder what lifting the embargo would do ISOMs price quality and availability.....hmmmmm?


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## [OT] Loki (May 24, 2006)

TheDirector said:


> Great Article. I wonder what lifting the embargo would do ISOMs price quality and availability.....hmmmmm?


quality would go down, availabilty would go up


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## Lumpold (Apr 28, 2005)

I reckon you got that wrong.... I think both would go down. With the size of the US market, both availability AND quality would go down. Keep the embargo!


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## awesome1 (Dec 13, 2006)

Just a point of clarification, they are not talking about lifting the embargo, only relaxing or eliminating the travel ban.


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## mr.c (Apr 8, 2004)

a spanish surgeon and equipment has been rushed to cuba

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16346039/


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## joed (Nov 12, 2005)

Lumpold said:


> I reckon you got that wrong.... I think both would go down. With the size of the US market, both availability AND quality would go down. Keep the embargo!


- quantity, quality and availability are not significantly changed

- price goes way up!

- Everyone heads up to the Shack.


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## [OT] Loki (May 24, 2006)

Lumpold said:


> I reckon you got that wrong.... I think both would go down. With the size of the US market, both availability AND quality would go down. Keep the embargo!


i guess I read that as ease of availability


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## Lumpold (Apr 28, 2005)

joed said:


> - quantity, quality and availability are not significantly changed
> 
> - price goes way up!
> 
> - Everyone heads up to the Shack.


See, now I agree with what you mean about quantity... I don't think the output would be increased exponentially, just a little, but the amount of actual tobacco, I feel would increase less. I don't know if that would mean a return to smaller smokes to increase possible output to cover the market, or simply 'shoddier' cigars in the lower price brackets?

Heading to the shack sounds like a plan.


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## M1903A1 (Jun 7, 2006)

On this topic, a related thought came to mind over the weekend...Castro converted a lot of prime tobacco acreage to growing sugar cane not long after the Revolution. Has any information come to light about how much Cuban acreage is devoted to tobacco now versus 1959?


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## awesome1 (Dec 13, 2006)

Thats a good question, Robainas family got thier start in sugar before switching to tobacco. Theres certainly room for expansion in the growing arena down there and my understanding is the new factories were built to handle increased production. 

My opinion for what its worth is this. If Cuba opens up and the economy picks up there wont be much incentive for people to continue to roll cigars as cheaply as they have been. I think this drives the price up permanently. I also think that if there is a hard time keeping up with demand then altidas will simply raise the prices until demand drops to a level they can produce. In short I see Cuban cigars becoming like french bordeaux. Very few drink it daily but occasionaly enjoy a glass or 2.. If coros were 50.00 each you might still smoke them but very rarely.. I think the days of cheap habanos are coming to an end when they become legal in the US.


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## dyj48 (May 1, 2006)

awesome1 said:


> Just a point of clarification, they are not talking about lifting the embargo, only relaxing or eliminating the travel ban.


Awesome is correct, most of the discussions seems to hinge around lifting travel restrictions. However, this is an interesting online discussion with two congressmen who were involved in the recent trip to Cuba.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/discussion/2006/12/19/DI2006121901056.html


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## awesome1 (Dec 13, 2006)

Thanks for posting the link, that was a god read. Its interesting that the democrat from mass gets it and the republican from Texas doesnt. I have to say the Ma representatives view was pretty accurate. Since i am working in Boston now but still living in CT on the weekends I am a taxpayer here and as such will be writing him a letter later this evening. 

I think the bottom line is that we all know the embargo is a failure and politically motivated at this point. The American people get it and the Cuban people get it. 10% of cubas population lives in the US and over a billion a year is sent to Cuba in remittances to families. There arent to many of them that dont understand whats really going on. I hope our representatives do the right thing and end the restrictions on Cuba. 

Cuba may have some human rights issues but so do many other countries we do business with. IMO its far worse to try and starve a nation into revolting than imprisoning 100 or so political prisoners for speaking out against the government. 

Although I am not in prison I am now subject to thousands in fines and my travel is monitored by the US government because of my travels to Cuba. I recognize there are some real differences there, but one thing is surely different, I was born in America and I am supposed to be free. That freedom should entitle me to travel where I choose unless we are at war with that country.


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## LSUTIGER (Jan 13, 2004)

Jim McGovern has my vote for President.


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## Hydrated (Aug 9, 2006)

icehog3 said:


> I haven't heard that phrase since Charles Bronson stopped making movies.


Chuck stopped making movies???

Dammit!


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## punch (Mar 5, 2005)

LSUTIGER said:


> Jim McGovern has my vote for President.


Interesting that the Democrat was interested in biotech and medical research. The Republican from Texas the oil. Some people cannot help but live the stereotype.


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## LSUTIGER (Jan 13, 2004)

punch said:


> Interesting that the Democrat was interested in biotech and medical research. The Republican from Texas the oil. Some people cannot help but live the stereotype.


I'm a registered republican in Texas and I work in the oil field. I couldn't disagree with that guy more. I think I will send him a letter. :sl


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## punch (Mar 5, 2005)

LSUTIGER said:


> I'm a registered republican in Texas and I work in the oil field. I couldn't disagree with that guy more. I think I will send him a letter. :sl


:r I could not help while reading the article thinking "Is this interview real, or is someone having a little bit of fun here."


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## dyj48 (May 1, 2006)

Well, the press is beginning to address the embargo following the visit by the Congressional Delegation. So let the advocacy games begin...I think things are going to start intensifying as the Congress begins to review the embargo. I'm not sure it it is going to go anywhere this next year, but this seems to reflect a new level of activity. Much of it seems to be based on agricultural trades which is supported by US Chamber of Commerce pushing for the removal of the embargo and travel restrictions.

Three recent articles below of which the first two are op-eds, one against removing the embargo and the other for removal. The last is a another interesting discussion of another set of Congresspersons advocating the end of the embargo.

http://www.suntimes.com/news/otherviews/186268,CST-EDT-perez26.article

http://www.nashuatelegraph.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061230/OPINION01/212300302

http://www.capitalpress.info/main.asp?SectionID=67&SubSectionID=782&ArticleID=29451&TM=40492.92


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## dyj48 (May 1, 2006)

Don't know if that last article came out...but it's from the Capital Press, so here it is:

Dated January 1, 2007

Lawmakers promote agriculture trade on Cuba trip
Copyright 2006 Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.

WASHINGTON (AP) - Reps. Jerry Moran and Jo Ann Emerson, back from a weekend visit to Cuba, said Dec. 18 the U.S. government should ease travel restrictions and expand agricultural trade with the communist nation.

"It's become clear to me that personal freedom follows economic opportunity," said Moran, R-Kan. "The larger trading relationship we have, the higher standard of living that Cuban people have, the more demands they will make upon their government for change."

Moran and Emerson, R-Mo., were part of a bipartisan congressional delegation that visited Cuba, the largest group of lawmakers to travel there since the U.S. trade embargo began more than 40 years ago.

The lawmakers are trying to gain a better understanding of the political situation in Cuba given the uncertainly surrounding Fidel Castro's health. They are also looking for ways to boost U.S. agricultural exports to the communist nation, which would benefit Midwestern farmers.

"Every single person with whom we met said they want to have negotiations to start building dialogue and communication between them and Washington, which is a different tone than they've taken in the past," Emerson said.

The Bush administration has said it will not open talks with Cuba until it becomes a democracy. While Moran said he's not a defender of Castro's regime, he asserts U.S. policy is misguided.

"There's a growing recognition that what we're doing is not working," Moran said.

Castro's medical condition has been kept under wraps since he underwent surgery for intestinal bleeding in July and temporarily ceded power to his younger brother Raul Castro. He has not been seen publicly since July 26.

Cuban officials tried to convince the lawmakers that Castro will return to power, but Moran said he suspects that is not true.

"My guess is sooner rather than later that Fidel Castro is no longer going to be the leader of Cuba," Moran said. "That gives us an opportunity to try to increase our relationship and develop an influence over the future Cuban government."

The delegation was not allowed to meet with Raul Castro. Emerson speculated the Cuban government did not want to signal that Fidel is no longer in power.

The group met with Foreign Minister Felipe Perez Roque, Parliament Speaker Ricardo Alarcon and Basic Industries Minister Yadira Garcia.

Moran and Emerson have long supported easing the trade embargo on Cuba. Moran backed a law passed by Congress in 2000 that allowed for the export of agricultural products, food and medicine to Cuba for the first time since the embargo began. Cuba purchased about $1.4 billion worth of agricultural commodities from U.S farmers from 2001 to 2005.

But the Bush administration last year imposed new restrictions that require Cuba to pay for goods before they leave U.S. ports. That change frustrated Cubans and caused trade to drop again. Moran and Emerson have tried unsuccessfully to stop the U.S. Treasury Department from enforcing the new rule.

Emerson said she is confident U.S. farmers will continue to be able to sell their products to Cuba, but she wants to end the new Treasury Department regulations, "so we can be on a level playing field price-wise for our products."


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## Bob (Jun 29, 2006)

At least the "showme state" tries?:u


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## ATLHARP (May 3, 2005)

donp said:


> Don't forget about the McDonald's


Starbucks, Havana?

NOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!

ATL


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## Terrasco (Nov 26, 2006)

Rep. Conaway is my congressman and he stated in a local interview that he was the only member of the delegation that did not support a lifting of the embargo.


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