# Government and Advocacy Groups Stepping Up Their Game



## MDSPHOTO (Sep 10, 2013)

Its amazing the PR machine that is in play during the last days of the FDA public notice. While the FDA said they extended the date for more feedback, it has become clear to me that the only reason they extended that date was to get their own study out the door to counter feedback from cigar smokers. It is not a coincidence that this study was published yesterday and everyone is piling on manipulating the resulting statistics for their own agendas. I don't think I believed the premium cigars were going to get regulated, but now I am pretty certain they are.

Little Filtered Cigar, Cigarillo, and Premium Cigar Smoking Among Adults - United States, 2012-2013

New Study Finds 17.4 Million U.S. Adults Smoke Cigars, Showing Need For FDA to Regulate All Cigars to Protect Public HealthStatement of Matthew L. Myers, President, Campaign for Tobacco-Free Kids_Jul. 31 2014_
WASHINGTON, DC - A new government study published today shows that 17.4 million Americans - 7.3 percent of U.S. adults - smoke cigars every day, some days or rarely. This study shows that cigar smoking is a serious public health problem that must be addressed through strategies such as Food and Drug Administration regulation of all cigars and taxation of cigar products at the same rate as cigarettes.
This study is the latest of several that have demonstrated how the popularity of cigars is undermining overall efforts to reduce smoking in the U.S.
A new CDC survey released in June (the 2013 Youth Risk Behavior Survey) found that while cigarette smoking continues to decline among high school students, cigar smoking rates have barely budged. As a result, high school boys now smoke cigars at the same rate as cigarettes (16.5 percent for cigars, 16.4 percent for cigarettes), and an alarming 23 percent of male high school seniors smoke cigars (compared to 19.6 percent who smoke cigarettes). Among all high school students, 12.6 percent were current (past-month) cigar smokers in 2013.
Sales data also show that overall consumption of cigars is rising. Cigar sales increased by 114 percent between 2000 and 2013 (from six billion to more than 13 billion cigars), while cigarette sales fell by 37 percent. (Data source: U.S. Alcohol and Tobacco Tax and Trade Bureau, Tax Statistics)
These trends come as tobacco companies have exploited regulatory and tax loopholes to promote cigars, often in ways that appeal to kids. Unlike cigarettes, cigars are not currently regulated by the FDA. This has allowed cigars to escape important public health regulations that apply to cigarettes, such as a ban on candy and fruit flavors that attract kids.
In addition, a 2009 law that increased federal tobacco taxes taxed larger cigars at a lower rate than cigarettes and small cigars. Some manufacturers responded by increasing the weight of their products to qualify for the lower tax rate, with one company going so far as to add a clay material found in kitty litter to its cigars. These tax evasion schemes both encourage tobacco use by reducing prices and cost the government significant revenue. The Government Accountability Office reported earlier this week that such efforts (including both increasing the weight of small cigars and relabeling higher-taxed roll-your-own tobacco as lower-taxed pipe tobacco) have cost the federal government at least $2.6 billion in revenue.
The FDA and Congress must protect public health by closing these loopholes. The FDA must quickly finalize its proposed rule to regulate all tobacco products, including all cigars, and reject proposals to exempt some "premium cigars" from regulation. Today's study shows that approximately 3.6 million adult cigar smokers (19.9 percent of all cigar smokers) usually smoke premium cigars, so any exemption would create a huge loophole and put the health of millions of Americans at risk. All cigar smokers should have the benefit of basic, common-sense regulations, such as disclosure of ingredients and appropriate warning labels about health risks. Any exemption would also invite tobacco companies to manipulate their products to qualify for the exemption and escape regulation, as they have done in the past.
In addition, Congress should equalize taxes on all tobacco products at the same rate as cigarettes to eliminate incentives for tax evasion. States with tobacco tax disparities should do the same.
In another troubling finding, today's study finds that, regardless of the type of cigar they smoke, nearly 60 percent or more of cigar smokers are either current or former cigarette smokers. Reiterating previous findings from the National Cancer Institute (NCI), the study states, "Cigar smokers that are current or former smokers are more likely to report inhaling cigar smoke, putting them at particularly high risk for tobacco-related diseases."
According to NCI, cigar smoking causes cancer of the oral cavity, larynx, esophagus and lung, and cigar smokers are at increased risk for an aortic aneurysm. Daily cigar smokers, particularly those who inhale, have an increased risk of heart disease and chronic obstructive pulmonary disease (COPD).
It is imperative that the FDA and Congress take action to address the health risks posed by cigar smoking and prevent the growth in cigar smoking from undermining overall efforts to reduce tobacco use, the nation's number one cause of preventable death.
The new study was conducted by researchers at the CDC, FDA and Rutgers School of Public Health. It was published in the CDC journal Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report.


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## Tobias Lutz (Feb 18, 2013)

MDSPHOTO said:


> It was published in the CDC journal *Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report*[/URL].[/COLOR]


That would be a great name for a garage punk band :nod:

A previous mentor once taught me "beware of anyone bearing statistics". I don't generally believe the ones provided by the government, and I don't particularly believe those cited by smokers (particularly the infamous Surgeon General's pipe study of the 60s that claimed pipe smokers live longer than non-smokers). The most troubling finding to me, out of all these studies, is the amount of money pissed away on a daily basis to finance them.


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## DarrelMorris (Feb 7, 2012)

:banghead:
Unbelievable.


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## Reggie (Oct 21, 2013)

MDSPHOTO said:


> Some manufacturers responded by increasing the weight of their products to qualify for the lower tax rate, with one company going so far as to add a clay material found in kitty litter to its cigars.


Well, that tears it. Please, big government, regulate those bastards! Cuz if you say it, it must be true and I'm shore not smart nuff to just not buy that crap.

Give me a break..

We're boned.

Better stock up.


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## Emperor Zurg (May 6, 2013)

MDSPHOTO said:


> *New Study Finds 17.4 Million U.S. Adults Smoke Cigars, Showing Need For FDA to Regulate All Cigars to Protect Public Health*
> 
> *Statement of Matthew L. Myers, President, Campaign for Tobacco-Free Kids*
> 
> _Jul. 31 2014_





MDSPHOTO said:


> WASHINGTON, DC - A new government study published today shows that 17.4 million Americans - *7.3 percent of U.S. adults - smoke cigars* every day, some days or rarely. This study shows that cigar smoking is a serious public health problem that must be addressed through strategies such as Food and Drug Administration regulation of all cigars and taxation of cigar products at the same rate as cigarettes.


Am I the only one to see the obvious hypocrisy here? "Tobacco free kids?!?" What the hell does that have to do with tobacco using adults??

But really folks, does anyone here still think this ISN'T going to happen? This 'public comment' period was and is nothing more than smoke and mirrors to dupe the stupid into thinking the government actually gives a sh!t about what they think. There is HUGE money to be made by 'regulating' cigars and our nanny-state government is perpetually bankrupt. This is GOING to happen; doesn't matter if NOBODY wants it.


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## MDSPHOTO (Sep 10, 2013)

Emperor Zurg said:


> Am I the only one to see the obvious hypocrisy here? "Tobacco free kids?!?" What the hell does that have to do with tobacco using adults??
> 
> But really folks, does anyone here still think this ISN'T going to happen? This 'public comment' period was and is nothing more than smoke and mirrors to dupe the stupid into thinking the government actually gives a sh!t about what they think. There is HUGE money to be made by 'regulating' cigars and our nanny-state government is perpetually bankrupt. This is GOING to happen; doesn't matter if NOBODY wants it.


I am afraid you are right. Where has CRA been as a counter balance to all this nonsense? Unless I've missed something, I have not seen any response from them on all the last few rounds fired by the Gov't and their cronies.


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## Emperor Zurg (May 6, 2013)

MDSPHOTO said:


> I am afraid you are right. Where has CRA been as a counter balance to all this nonsense? Unless I've missed something, I have not seen any response from them on all the last few rounds fired by the Gov't and their cronies.


Well the CRA going up against the ever-bloating Federal Government is a lot like the fireflies that went up against my windshield on the way home last night. **SPLAT!** Safe to say the last thing that went thru their mind was their rectum. The Fed wants this money grab. They can taste all those dollars already - probably have them spent already. The CRA is just shoveling sh!t against the tide and they likely know it. If they don't already know it, they're about to find out.

Stock up while you can!!!

And don't you Habanos smokers think you're going to get out of this unscathed. When this all comes to a head and a 2 dollar yard gar now costs upwards of 12 bucks, millions of guys like me - who right now have little to no interest in the ISOM - are going to be looking elsewhere for better, more affordable smokes... smokes that aren't taxed to death because they're 'under the radar' so to speak. I bet this will have a similar effect to a sudden lifting of the trade embargo, at least in part.


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## tnlawyer (Jul 17, 2013)

Emperor Zurg said:


> And don't you Habanos smokers think you're going to get out of this unscathed. When this all comes to a head and a 2 dollar yard gar now costs upwards of 12 bucks, millions of guys like me - who right now have little to no interest in the ISOM - are going to be looking elsewhere for better, more affordable smokes... smokes that aren't taxed to death because they're 'under the radar' so to speak. I bet this will have a similar effect to a sudden lifting of the trade embargo, at least in part.


I thought about this as well. People will likely turn to these cigars as a cheaper alternative.

Agree with everyone here who thinks the regulation is going to happen regardless. Grab your ankles boys and girls...


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## brimy623 (May 25, 2013)

MDSPHOTO said:


> 7.3 percent of U.S. adults - smoke cigars every day, some days or rarely.
> 
> high school boys now smoke cigars at the same rate as cigarettes (16.5 percent for cigars, 16.4 percent for cigarettes), and an alarming 23 percent of male high school seniors smoke cigars (compared to 19.6 percent who smoke cigarettes). Among all high school students, 12.6 percent were current (past-month) cigar smokers in 2013.[/COLOR]


7.3% of adults; I thought being an adult gave you the right to make such decisions!!
7.3% of approximately 250 million = a huge problem?? Come on!!

And I'm sure these high school kids are not smoking "premium" cigars!



Tobias Lutz said:


> "beware of anyone bearing statistics".


statistics = politicians best friend because of it's ease of skew-ability.



Emperor Zurg said:


> Am I the only one to see the obvious hypocrisy here? "Tobacco free kids?!?" What the hell does that have to do with tobacco using adults??
> 
> But really folks, does anyone here still think this ISN'T going to happen? This 'public comment' period was and is nothing more than smoke and mirrors to dupe the stupid into thinking the government actually gives a sh!t about what they think. There is HUGE money to be made by 'regulating' cigars and our nanny-state government is perpetually bankrupt. This is GOING to happen; doesn't matter if NOBODY wants it.





MDSPHOTO said:


> I am afraid you are right. Where has CRA been as a counter balance to all this nonsense? Unless I've missed something, I have not seen any response from them on all the last few rounds fired by the Gov't and their cronies.


It does seem inevitable! :mad2::mad2:


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## jimmyv723 (Jul 2, 2014)

Gotta love the Government saying someone is exploiting loopholes. I actually thought the percentage of Cigar Smokers would have been higher so maybe the actual numbers will backfire for them but unfortunately I doubt that. The thing people need to realize is that even if you don;t smoke cigars them doing something like this is bad for everyone. It's just one more freedom they've taken away and they will just keep going. Really is amazing when you think about it and how we've become basically what we fought so hard to free ourselves from so long ago.


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## MDS (Dec 4, 2012)

The problem with statistics is that people seem to readily accept numbers as fact.


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## Nature (Jul 30, 2012)

brimy623 said:


> statistics = politicians best friend because of it's ease of screw-ability.


Fixed it


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## Trackmyer (Jun 6, 2014)

Anti's need something to attack. You saw it when they went after cigarettes. Big Tobacco just rolled over and let it happen, as cigar smokers we watched and thought at least it isnt us.

But thats the thing, each new law that is created doesnt end it. Its just the next step. They will then think of the next aspect to go after and beat into submission. On and on, until they are here after us. It doesn't end at taxation, or smoking in buildings, or smoking in public parks, or even when we are required to only smoke in our private little box with proper ventilation and air scrubbers to prevent any second hand smoke from entering the atmosphere.

It ends when they get rid of all tobacco products....period.

We fight the same craziness with anti hunting and anti guns.....they dont want regulation they want complete removal.

Until we change our government leaders to leaders who want smaller government. We will continue to have our leaders decide for us what is ok for us to partake in.


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## Emperor Zurg (May 6, 2013)

Trackmyer said:


> We fight the same craziness with anti hunting and anti guns.....they dont want regulation they want complete removal.
> 
> Until we change our government leaders to leaders who want smaller government. We will continue to have our leaders decide for us what is ok for us to partake in.


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## Trackmyer (Jun 6, 2014)

Emperor Zurg said:


>


Indeed !!!


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## TCBSmokes (Sep 25, 2013)

Emperor Zurg said:


> Am I the only one to see the obvious hypocrisy here? "Tobacco free kids?!?" What the hell does that have to do with tobacco using adults??
> 
> But really folks, does anyone here still think this ISN'T going to happen? This 'public comment' period was and is nothing more than smoke and mirrors to dupe the stupid into thinking the government actually gives a sh!t about what they think. There is HUGE money to be made by 'regulating' cigars and our nanny-state government is perpetually bankrupt. This is GOING to happen; doesn't matter if NOBODY wants it.


Exactly. I'm Not A Kid. Leave my right to smoke cigars alone. T.


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## TCBSmokes (Sep 25, 2013)

And there's more.. Top Economists Tell FDA Its Cost-Benefit Analyses of Tobacco Rules are Badly Flawed and Underestimat - Campaign for Tobacco Free Kids.


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## Cob (Jul 23, 2014)

They are really going after the little filtered cigars and cigarillos there. I think we would be happy to let them have those if they would leave cigars alone but...What are the chances? Big sister is on the war path.


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## Branzig (Jul 14, 2013)

Anytime there is an "anti" movement in regards to alcohol, tobacco, or firearms the safe bet is to always use the *"SAVE THE KIDS!!!!"* card.

Washington state has used this particular scare tactic to bully tobacco users and gain the popular vote on plenty of initiatives and bills. All people see is, "keep kids off tobacco" and they don't care about what other sly little tid-bits may be in there. All they see and hear is "keep kids off tobacco" so they vote and or support it. Hate to break it to you all, but so far ol' WA state is batting 1.000 when using this tactic. Used it to raise taxes, outlaw shipping of loose leaf tobacco into the state, strict anti public smoking laws, currently using it to shut down every cigar-bar in the state...They're on a war path to take out all the tobacco in the state. Especially now that the marijuana sales taxes will supplement lost revenues.

Anyways, guess the moral of the story is, once the "save the kids from cancer" card is pulled, there is little to stop it. I am seeing the writing on the wall out:


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## dinoa2 (Feb 7, 2008)

that link that Tom gave above about the paper on cost benefits has a link to their paper and if you go further, has bios for these anti people with phone numbers and emails. some of these "experts" aren't even in the U.S. maybe we should email them and thank them for their help. 

I gave the FDA my comments several times and filled out the form emails to my representatives. When do these rules and regs get published? I am a pessimist and don't see how some cigar companies will stay afloat when cigars will have to be more than $10 to avoid regulation. There are a lot of good smokes and companys making them that don't go for $10.


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## Branzig (Jul 14, 2013)

dinoa2 said:


> and don't see how some cigar companies will stay afloat when cigars will have to be more than $10 to avoid regulation


Most of them wont.

A significant amount of them will close up shop and cut their loses I would imagine.


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## dinoa2 (Feb 7, 2008)

according to Cigar Aficionado, 8 sentaors wrote to the FDA asking to leave cigars alone by changing their definition of premium cigars. it might be a start


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## Cob (Jul 23, 2014)

This pic is up on the FDA website. Writing is on the wall.


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## MDSPHOTO (Sep 10, 2013)

Cob said:


> This pic is up on the FDA website. Writing is on the wall.
> 
> View attachment 50252


OMFG! Curious! I work in an FDA regulated industry and THEY prohibit the use of consumer survey results as the basis for a promotional campaign, but they have no problem doing it themselves. Everyday I lose more and more respect for the leaders of this country.


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## Nature (Jul 30, 2012)

MDSPHOTO said:


> OMFG! Curious! I work in an FDA regulated industry and THEY prohibit the use of consumer survey results as the basis for a promotional campaign, but they have no problem doing it themselves. Everyday I lose more and more respect for the leaders of this country.


It gets even worse! The "study" used to fabricate this chart is flawed and completely biased.

1. The question asked lumps a cigar, cigarillo, or little cigar together.
2. They jump to the conclusion that a a response of "probably not" still leaves room and indicates some curiosity, which they refer to as "moderately curious" and on the other end they combine responses of yes and probably yes and are referred to as "highly curious".
So of the 4 responses, 3 of them are all combined to indicate "curiosity". I wonder how many of these that are truly curious actually do go on to become regular users? It could be very low, yet an "association" could still be made by this study
I also have worked with the FDA, and their associations made are sometimes ridiculous!​
Not surprisingly, publication of this article appearing in the _American Journal of Preventative Medicine_ was supported by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration, Center for Tobacco Products.

This chart does not belong on the FDA website. These agencies are becoming evermore nothing but propaganda machines use to push an agenda. Like David pointed out, the double standards imposed are outrageous!


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## SeanTheEvans (Dec 13, 2013)

I like the study. I want to do one where we ask who has heard of "Tobacco", and who "doesn't smoke". I'll use those numbers to prove that the MORE people hear about "Tobacco", the LESS LIKELY they are to smoke! As the majority of the population is non-smoking, I'm fairly sure that the results should support my goals.


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## Kasanova King (Jun 8, 2014)

Nature said:


> It gets even worse! The "study" used to fabricate this chart is flawed and completely biased.
> 
> 1. The question asked lumps a cigar, cigarillo, or little cigar together.
> 2. They jump to the conclusion that a a response of "probably not" still leaves room and indicates some curiosity, which they refer to as "moderately curious" and on the other end they combine responses of yes and probably yes and are referred to as "highly curious".
> ...


Not to mention that the only thing they're really curious about is the easiest way to take the tobacco out of the cigars so that they can fill them with the green stuff. lol.


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## beltjones (May 27, 2014)

Every time I know a little about a topic and the government gets involved I'm disgusted by the tactics they use and the mis-information they spew. Every. Time.

Next time I hear of a government study and pending action that is on a topic I'm not well-versed in, I'm just going to assume they're full of crap and trying to grab money.


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## Bruck (Jan 8, 2013)

beltjones said:


> Every time I know a little about a topic and the government gets involved I'm disgusted by the tactics they use and the mis-information they spew. Every. Time.
> 
> Next time I hear of a government study and pending action that is on a topic I'm not well-versed in, I'm just going to assume they're full of crap and trying to grab money.


Or power.


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## beltjones (May 27, 2014)

Or both!


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