# Why I don't buy Cuban cigars



## docruger (Feb 12, 2009)

Sure, I've smoked Cuban cigars - guilty as charged - and have even enjoyed many of them, but I don't buy Cuban cigars. Actually the last time I bought Cuban cigars was about five years ago in Tijuana. They were Cohiba Robustos, and who even knows if they were genuine.

Let's face it, there is something to be said for Cuban cigars, but here's the rub: Whenever I speak to a cigar smokers who claim to buy Cuban cigars on a regular basis - they always have "a connection" - I tend to get this visceral reaction. Is it because I'm jealous that they can afford a $300 box of cigars? Maybe a little, but it's not about money. It's about principles. Sure, there are still some very fine cigars made in Cuba, and the Cuban soil and climate are perfect for growing prime leaf, but remember, the _government_ makes the cigars, and we all _know_ what happens when the government takes control of an industry. (Beware auto manufacturers.)

If you're a cigar smoker, they you're probably aware that many of the manufacturers of premium non-Cuban cigars are themselves Cuban expatriates. Moreover, the cigars are all produced from Cuban seed tobaccos. Families like the Perdomos, Olivas, Padróns, Toraños, Eiroas, Plasencias, the Carrillos, Quesadas - I could go on ad infinitum - have all been able to create some amazing cigars working with different soils in other countries. In many ways, the cigars created by the aforementioned are every bit as Cuban as a Havana Partagas Serie D or Montecristo No.2.

Using the skills that have been handed down for generations, these grandmasters working in Miami, Tampa, The Dominican Republic, Honduras, and Nicaragua have worked their tails off, _independently_ from scratch mind you, to exceed the standards of their native country and create the fine brands they are today.

When an American buys a box of Cuban cigars, I doubt they ever consider, or can even relate to, the brutality many of these same Cuban families have had to endure at the hands of Castro's goons, as illustrated in this quote taken directly from the Perdomo cigars website:

_A quiet and peaceful man steadfastly opposed to Castro and the communist revolution, Silvio Perdomo was soon arrested in his own home and quickly tried and incarcerated in the notorious Isle of Pines prison where he endured his harshest treatment. Three years later he was transferred to La Cabana, a murky 18th century fortress overlooking Havana Bay. For the next 12 excruciating years, Silvio suffered through squalid conditions, torture and near-starvation at La Cabana and four other Cuban prisons. Nick, Sr. was also a target of the wrath and violence inherent in establishing Castro's "New Cuba." Ambushed by pro-Castro guerillas, he was shot and critically wounded - within view of the very home his father Silvio was arrested and abducted from.​_José Oliva has often told me of his personal disdain for the Castro regime. David Blanco of Los Blancos Cigars once told me a story about a relative of his who, despite hating Castro, had an important job in the regime. One day he received a call from a friend telling him he was being set up for a "hit." In a heartbeat he was on the next boat to Miami, and had to send for his wife and children later. Can you imagine not even having time to say goodbye to your wife and children? There are countless untold stories of families enduring dishonor, oppression, strife, and death.

So when someone tells me about the great box of Cubans he just picked-up, I think of it as a slap in the face to these fine gentleman, and all that they have achieved since putting their families' homeland behind them. Just walk through any cigar store today and look at all the marvelous cigars the free market has created! I don't see the _need_ to buy Cuban cigars. And anyone who actually believes that Cuban cigars are superior to all other handmade cigars, is seriously misguided.

I think its fair to say that many of the manufacturers would like to see the embargo lifted, if only to blend their cigars with Cuban tobacco. Maybe when that happens, I'll buy a Cuban cigar. But realistically, I'd say the Cubans have a lot of catching up to do first.

by gary korb

cigaradvisor.com


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## AspiringGent (May 15, 2009)

I have a bit of a different take on this.

Some of the major (and minor) corporations we buy from on a regular basis (Walmart, etc.) contribute immensely to child labor and poor working conditions for people all over the world particularly in Asia. Yet I still visit the local dollar store, and continue to buy goods at the cheapest price regardless of country of origin.

While Cuban treatment of prisoners is despicable, only in the past couple months has the US government closed up Guantanamo and stopped doing it themselves. Yet when I lived in the US for quite some time, I faithfully supported the troops.

That's not to say the Cuban government's actions haven't been horrendous at times, but there are many other things we buy or groups we associate with that have committed similar atrocities if on different scales. That and living in Canada, 90% of the cigar market is Cuban, so it's tough to ignore. If you have the moral fortitude to create a personal embargo on Cuban goods, I give you huge props, but until I cut out McDonald's, Walmart, the Dollar Store, Old Navy, etc., I'll keep buying Cubans.


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## Patrick B (Nov 5, 2008)

This thread could quickly get way too political, if it hasn't already...


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## Snake Hips (May 30, 2008)

That's fine and dandy, but in this world you can't really maintain that principle. I can't afford to not drive a car, not wear shoes or clothes and shop only at the farmer's market. There's really nothing in a first-world life where you can avoid supporting oppressive governments and/or corporations. I smoke Cuban and non-Cuban, with preference for Cubans as a whole; I enjoy them, so I smoke them. And they're cheaper as a bonus. I can't be bothered to dictate really anything I do around those principles, because it's, well, impossible.

Also, on the topic of ethics, is there any difference? I can't discern whether the people of Cuba are any worse off than those in the Dominican, Honduras, Mexico and Nicaragua. They're all poor, poor folks with less-than-ideal governments. In Cuba, being a torcedor is considered quite the job to have. That's gotta' count for something I think.


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## GlockG23 (Mar 7, 2009)

Patrick B said:


> This thread could quickly get way too political, if it hasn't already...


yes Patrick I agree with you


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## d_day (Aug 24, 2008)

I don't buy cubans. It's not for any of the prefectly valid reasons listed above, but simply because I try to obey the law (even when I don't agree with it) whenever possible. As long as they remain illegal in the US, I'll not buy them. Even if they do suddenly become legal, I'm not likely to buy many then. There are just too many NCs that I adore.


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## Hot Stuff x (Jan 2, 2009)

AspiringGent said:


> While Cuban treatment of prisoners is despicable, only in the past couple months has the US government closed up Guantanamo and stopped doing it themselves.


The OP was discussing persecution, inprisonment, and torture of Cuban citizens by the Castro goverment simply becuase of thier political beliefs. And you equate that with the U.S. inprisonment of armed terrorists who were captured on the battlefield, actively engaged in trying to kill U.S. or coalition soldiers? There is a reason it is jokingly referred to as "Club Gitmo".

If you had to be inprisoned in Cuba, would you rather it be in Castro's prisons or at Gitmo?


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## Frinkiac7 (Dec 12, 2008)

AspiringGent said:


> I have a bit of a different take on this.
> 
> Some of the major (and minor) corporations we buy from on a regular basis (Walmart, etc.) contribute immensely to child labor and poor working conditions for people all over the world particularly in Asia. Yet I still visit the local dollar store, and continue to buy goods at the cheapest price regardless of country of origin.
> 
> ...


I was just going to post a similar thought.

Anytime you buy products or services from a big multinational corporation, someone is getting exploited and somewhere, in some small way, you're contributing to human hardship in some corner of the world. Don't like it, but that's the name of the game. Better to make your own personal peace with it rather than boycott one item out of "principle," but turn a blind eye to similar atrocious behavior in all sorts of other things you buy.


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## llatsni (Jan 3, 2009)

@the OP: I see very selective use of history in your reasoning. Plenty of the non-cuban cigars originate in countries with similar atrocious political records. I doubt there ever was a country birthed through peace and tolerance.


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## jledou (Jul 18, 2008)

Patrick B said:


> This thread could quickly get way too political, if it hasn't already...


Danger Will Robinson, Danger


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## RYJ 08 (Jul 24, 2008)

I buy cubans because i live in ireland and I enjoy them im a 5 a day smoker. The only non cuban i smoke is padron 2000, 5000 and rarely a rp 1990, anyway there is not a big demand for dom,nic hon here...

a cuban seed means nothing the counrty is mecka for top quility cigars only. and im planning on heading down for two weeks and probably smoke ten fine cigars day with top qulitly cuban coffee.........


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## newlifetaxidermy (Sep 25, 2008)

To the OP:

While I certainly understand the principles you hold, I don't think boycotting Cuban cigars somehow makes you more "righteous" than those of us who like to smoke CCs. I am sure you somehow feel good about yourself because you are not supporting Castro's government. However, if you will consider for a moment things you purchase on a daily basis that support rogue regimes, I am sure you will understand my point of view. When you purchase a gallon of gasoline or any petroleum based products (A partial list of products made from petroleum), you are in essence supporting murderous dictators whose subjects wish they were treated as well as the Cubans. Furthermore, you are supporting regimes that are directly responsible for the murder of 2,740 Americans on 9/11/01. So, until you move into the woods and live a completely petroleum free lifestyle, I don't want to hear any of this crap about not supporting Castro and his regime.


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## newlifetaxidermy (Sep 25, 2008)

BTW, Cuban-seed doesn't mean jack squat. I hear Cremosas are made with Cuban-seed tobacco.


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## docruger (Feb 12, 2009)

docruger said:


> Sure, I've smoked Cuban cigars - guilty as charged - and have even enjoyed many of them, but I don't buy Cuban cigars. Actually the last time I bought Cuban cigars was about five years ago in Tijuana. They were Cohiba Robustos, and who even knows if they were genuine.
> 
> Let's face it, there is something to be said for Cuban cigars, but here's the rub: Whenever I speak to a cigar smokers who claim to buy Cuban cigars on a regular basis - they always have "a connection" - I tend to get this visceral reaction. Is it because I'm jealous that they can afford a $300 box of cigars? Maybe a little, but it's not about money. It's about principles. Sure, there are still some very fine cigars made in Cuba, and the Cuban soil and climate are perfect for growing prime leaf, but remember, the _government_ makes the cigars, and we all _know_ what happens when the government takes control of an industry. (Beware auto manufacturers.)
> 
> ...


 I only posted this for a read and never implied any agreement with the author so please refrain from directing negative feed back toward me. THANKS


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## Raybird (Oct 17, 2008)

I have it on good authority that lifting the embargo will result in the manufacturers that supply us legally buying most or all of the Cuban tobacco for their blends. I guess it's ok with me, but I do hate to see the Castros profit from this.


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## llatsni (Jan 3, 2009)

docruger said:


> by gary korb
> 
> cigaradvisor.com


I presumed you were Gary Korb!

You should have made it clear that you are quoting the opinion of someone else or an article for discussion, and that you didn't necessarily agree.

Otherwise... APOLOGIES!


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## audio1der (Mar 8, 2006)

I buy them because I enjoy them. If non-cubans were the only cigars available, I doubt I would smoke. It's just personal preference.


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## Egis (Feb 3, 2009)

Yeah I smoke cubans all the time then I'm in my home country "Europe" down hear only NC's, or cubans if I brought them with me. But besides that, this is happening all other the world, you can't control it! Down hear too!


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## Cigary (Oct 19, 2007)

I was a bit surprised at the thread but then again,,,,this is one persons opinion and I would hope that this thread, if it continues, will keep itself on track as far as letting people express their opinions without resorting to negative bumps or chastisment. I can actually respect both side of the debate,,,people have their own reasons for either smoking CC's or not,,,,I smoke them because I like them and I do not agree with the reasoning behind why they are illegal. I agree with the reasoning back when JFK signed the embargo,,,,so why did he have Salinger go boy 1200 petit upmanns? Why didn't he let the rest of the cigar smokers have the same chance to do what he did? I liked JFK but he was deceptive in his policy,,,he was a hypoctrite in how we went about doing what he did. I know we live in a country with laws but I am not a lemming either. I will not follow BS laws that infringe upon my rights as a citizen and if you disagree with that then you would have to disagree with our forefathers who pretty much said that if we find as a citizen that the laws are wrong we have a duty to hold the gov't accountable and change it. Will my smoking a CC endanger or hurt anyone else because I choose to smoke a cigar grown and rolled in another country? C'mon,,,,don't be so naive' as to think that a cigar is one of the political tools that props a country up,,,,,in this case,,,a cigar is just a cigar. My 2 cents on this.


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## Snake Hips (May 30, 2008)

Raybird said:


> I have it on good authority that lifting the embargo will result in the manufacturers that supply us legally buying most or all of the Cuban tobacco for their blends. I guess it's ok with me, but I do hate to see the Castros profit from this.


I can heartily guarantee that Cubatabaco will never sell any Cuban leaf to other manufacturers.

@docruger
My apologies - you could have mentioned that you weren't Gary Korb


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## mash (Jul 24, 2007)

To the OP. I knew you weren't Gary Korb, but when you post something like this on a forum without any other information, people may assume you're advocating this point of view. Instead of being defensive later, you may want to indicate your position, or non-position on the post. This is particularly the case when the thread is titled "Why I don't"


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## ahbroody (Mar 24, 2008)

Some posts here were TLTR (too long to read)
That said I smoke both NC and CC. Increasingly more CC, but I still enjoy certain NC. CCs attempts at maduros have been comedy for the most part. JJ Maddies, 26s and 64s hell even anejos seem to win out. 

I dont fear the whole legality thing. Guess being a cop and having a JD makes you realize its fairly safe 

Smoke what you like. I know I do.


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## karmaz00 (Dec 5, 2007)

i mostly enjoy CC, becasue i can get them in cdn...a big reason for this, is that our local BM only really carry CC, and NO or little selection of NC, where its the oppisite in the USA of course....there will be many of opinions on this, hopfully it wont get to carried away..happy smoking


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## Scott W. (Jul 10, 2008)

mash said:


> To the OP. I knew you weren't Gary Korb, but when you post something like this on a forum without any other information, people may assume you're advocating this point of view. Instead of being defensive later, you may want to indicate your position, or non-position on the post. This is particularly the case when the thread is titled "Why I don't"


I agree 100% especially when the OP posts many things written by others and copied and pasted into threads here.


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## docruger (Feb 12, 2009)

I always put where I copied from. and when I come across a good read, I like to share with fellow BOTL. and BTW my profile clearly says my name is JOE. thanks


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## Scott W. (Jul 10, 2008)

Not trying to offend you Joe and I certainly find the information interesting. I was not intending to put down your thread for sure.


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## ss396 (Sep 24, 2005)

life is too short not to smoke cuban cigars.


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## Blaylock-cl (Apr 28, 2006)

scottw said:


> I agree 100% especially when the OP posts many things written by others and copied and pasted into threads here.





docruger said:


> I always put where I copied from. and when I come across a good read, I like to share with fellow BOTL. and BTW my profile clearly says my name is JOE. thanks


I usually post a LINK. That will definately avoid any confusion, IMO.


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## aphexacid (May 3, 2006)

I'm not getting sucked into the political portion of this.

All i'm gonna say is, i always chuckle everytime someone says something about how cuban seed cigars grown elsewhere are just as good. Theres no comparison. Cubans are cubans, and thats that. some taste cuban-esque. some have an interesting flavor all their own which i would go to. But there is not one non-cuban cigar on the same level as the real deal.


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## donp (Mar 5, 2006)

One of the best things about the USA is that everyone has an opinion, and has the right to have that opinion and to speak it. In addition to opinions, we have freedom of choice. We can buy whatever we want without conscience, or worry about how it affects other people (except drugs etc). 
I smoke cuban cigars, as well as good non cuban cigars. I choose to do so. I cannot imagine what it was like or would be like to live in a country that wouldn't allow me basic freedoms. Yet, I cannot imagine what it was like to have lived under the repressive and corrupt regime that prompted castro and his followers to overthrow that regime. 
That was another time, another place, which still has issues related to people not having basic human needs met. If I buy cuban cigars, I don't believe I am buying them from anyone in the present cuban regime but, a customer of them. The cigars I buy, have already been bought, and I am merely buying them from someone else, perhaps thousands of miles away. Do I feel guilt? Do I find my cigars less enjoyable? The answer to both is no, I am okay with enjoying my cigars which I am able to buy (and not pay $300.00 for). I do not however, find fault with anyone who has a differing opinion for, in the land that I love, it is okay to be different and to think differently about most things.


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## Baldyisme (Jan 22, 2009)

Donp - assuming by your post that you are an American? If so it's illegal for you to purchase CC, anywhere, even outside the US. So yes, you do have the freedom of choice so long as you don't get caught.

Aphexacid - well said sir.

Being Canadian I do have the freedom to smoke whatever I can get a hold of. My personal preference is for CC but why be stupid and limit myself to NC or CC. It's nice to go to 2 separate vinodor and pick whatever I feel like smoking at that moment. No limit, no restrictions, no guilt, this hobby is about enjoying the finer things in life. So why bring the stress, politics and BS that made me crave a nice cigar at the end of a long day take away from my cigar enjoyment pleasure??? I hope one day soon my American BOTL/SOTL have the same freedom that I have.


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## CAJoe (Jan 14, 2008)

All of you Americans with Cuban Cigars are breaking the law! I need you to send me your contraband so that I may destroy it for you! :wink:


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## Cigary (Oct 19, 2007)

Lol,,,,all I can send you are the ashes of the cigars I smoked. Incidentally to what was said in the original post in this thread,,,

Quote "Let's face it, there is something to be said for Cuban cigars, but here's the rub: Whenever I speak to a cigar smokers who claim to buy Cuban cigars on a regular basis - they always have "a connection" - I tend to get this visceral reaction. Is it because I'm jealous that they can afford a $300 box of cigars? end Quote

I don't buy $300 boxes of any cigar,,much less Cubans or Domestic. There are far too many brands of cigars that you can purchase for under $200 or even $150 for that matter. There are plenty of Cuban boxes that sell for considerably less than $300 as well and lately you can buy CC's for less than a domestic. As far as a "connection" is concerned you buy cigars from a reputable dealer,,,this isn't a back alley deal for a lot of cigar smokers where we can score cigars like a meth head looking for a downtown deal. Cigars are a commodity that are used the world over and enjoyed. Cigars were made to be enjoyed not be corrupted by a political process and of all the things that yanks my chain about my country this is one of them. This doesn't mean I am an anarchist it simply means I disagree with some of the policies of our goverment and just because it's the law of the land doesn't mean its right. Our forefathers never meant for our rights to be trampeled on like they have been. We still trade with Viet Nam,, Korea, , ,,we trade with Japan,,Germany, Russia,,,,Saudi Arabia after 9/11,,,the list is endless.

If anyone can show me logic in this area and not just say,,"Its against the law" I am all ears.


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## donp (Mar 5, 2006)

Baldyisme said:


> Donp - assuming by your post that you are an American? If so it's illegal for you to purchase CC, anywhere, even outside the US. So yes, you do have the freedom of choice so long as you don't get caught.
> 
> Aphexacid - well said sir.
> 
> Being Canadian I do have the freedom to smoke whatever I can get a hold of. My personal preference is for CC but why be stupid and limit myself to NC or CC. It's nice to go to 2 separate vinodor and pick whatever I feel like smoking at that moment. No limit, no restrictions, no guilt, this hobby is about enjoying the finer things in life. So why bring the stress, politics and BS that made me crave a nice cigar at the end of a long day take away from my cigar enjoyment pleasure??? I hope one day soon my American BOTL/SOTL have the same freedom that I have.


Baldy:
You are correct oh great one! I am an american. And yes, I am aware that it is illegal for me to enjoy a cuban cigar whether home or away. My post basically consisted my big fat juicy rationalization about the issue. My personal feelings are that the policy is wrong, and should be repealed, kinda like the prohibition of alcohol in this country. But, I know that this matter is more complicated.


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## Arnie (Jan 5, 2009)

Say, isn't Gary Korb one of the guys at Famous Smoke Shop?? He would obviously have a vested interest in convincing you not to smoke Cubans since he can't sell them to you.
Or am I thinking of another Gary?


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## Buddha024 (Jul 31, 2008)

Arnie said:


> Say, isn't Gary Korb one of the guys at Famous Smoke Shop?? He would obviously have a vested interest in convincing you not to smoke Cubans since he can't sell them to you.
> Or am I thinking of another Gary?


You are correct Arnie. Good point too.

:ss :w :ss


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## ToJo (Jun 24, 2009)

I shy away from Cubans simply because I find them to be overpriced. I've also found that people rely too heavily on the fact that it's a Cuban to mean that it's guaranteed to be a great cigar. The price is high, but is it really that great? I started in this hobby smoking nothing but Cubans. Recently I've found online retailers, and I've moved on to expand my world to include more than just one small island. When many of those great cigar producing families fled Cuba, they took their experience, heart, technique, and seed with them. There are some great cigars that come from Cuba, but there are now cigars from other countries that are great as well. It takes some time for people to catch up with reality. The Cuban monopoly on quality has been eradicated for decades now.


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## Habanolover (Feb 22, 2006)

ToJo said:


> I shy away from Cubans simply because I find them to be overpriced. I've also found that people rely too heavily on the fact that it's a Cuban to mean that it's guaranteed to be a great cigar. The price is high, but is it really that great? I started in this hobby smoking nothing but Cubans. Recently I've found online retailers, and I've moved on to expand my world to include more than just one small island. When many of those great cigar producing families fled Cuba, they took their experience, heart, technique, and seed with them. There are some great cigars that come from Cuba, but there are now cigars from other countries that are great as well. It takes some time for people to catch up with reality. The Cuban monopoly on quality has been eradicated for decades now.


While I agree with the majority of your post I would like to say that often times I save money by smoking Cubans. I really do not understand why everyone thinks they are outrageously expensive.


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## GrtndpwrflOZ (May 17, 2007)

Who are you people and where do you come from?
But my biggest question is......
What is a cuban?
I thought that cuban was the owner of the Dallas Mavericks.

I do believe most french wine is derived from california seeds (was it a fire in France, or something like that that wiped out the vineyards?). Does that make french wine and California wine the same.

Who doesn't speed? If you speed are you still a law abiding citizen? NO
You break the law. 
What is worse?
Speeding or knowing Marc Cuban

I do however know a guy who knows a guy who dated a girl who has an aunt who has a son who used to work in a factory whos still friends with a guy who works for cohibo.
I can get you a nice 20 count glass top box of Cohibos for real cheap.
now to find that alley.


OZ

Now for reality.
those "other" smokes are by far cheaper


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## Snake Hips (May 30, 2008)

^ Not entirely sure I get your post...

Cubans are very often more inexpensive than non-Cubans. You can even check Marty's list and see the official prices in Cuba itself.

And I see your point about the wine - but whether or not they got the seeds from California, a Cabernet Suvignon grape seed is a Cabernet Sauvignon grape seed. It's the climate you grow it in and techniques you use that distinguishes different wines of the same variety. Same with tobacco. Non-Cuban manufacturers use Cuban seed plants, but the terroir and techniques are different, making the cigars different. To many, cigars of Cuban tobacco taste better, and are cheaper to boot, so that's who "us people" are.

Unless I've completely misread the intentions of your post. In that case, I apologize in advance.


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## Habanolover (Feb 22, 2006)

Snake Hips said:


> ^ Not entirely sure I get your post...
> 
> Cubans are very often more inexpensive than non-Cubans. You can even check Marty's list and see the official prices in Cuba itself.
> 
> ...


I am pretty sure that Brian was saying the same thing you are. He was saying that just because you have the same seed does not mean it will produce the same results.

He also stated that many times Cuban cigars are cheaper than non-Cuban.


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## Tarks (Mar 3, 2009)

madurolover said:


> While I agree with the majority of your post I would like to say that often times I save money by smoking Cubans. I really do not understand why everyone thinks they are outrageously expensive.


I could not agree with you more. If people would do their homework they will find that most cc's are in the same price range as a premium nc. (and yes I do put an average cc in the same category as a premium nc) Now, a premium cc is a different story. They can be very very expensive.


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## Kilobyte (Dec 10, 2008)

The true Habanos cigar families now live in Central America since the Cuban revolution. The embargo wrought the best domestic cigars ever created. To buy cigars from Cuba today is to finance Communists who could care less what their enemy needs or desires.


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## Habanolover (Feb 22, 2006)

Kilobyte said:


> To buy cigars from Cuba today is to finance Communists who could care less what their enemy needs or desires.


Well it is good to know that you don't buy clothes, toys, household products, etc. from China. 

I myself have never sent a dime to Cuba even though I smoke quite a bit of Habanos.


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## Hermit (Aug 5, 2008)

madurolover said:


> Well it is good to know that you don't buy clothes, toys, household products, etc. from China.
> 
> I myself have never sent a dime to Cuba even though I smoke quite a bit of Habanos.


...and quit driving so you don't buy any oil from Venezuela and Iran. :mrgreen:


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## Habanolover (Feb 22, 2006)

Hermit said:


> ...and quit driving so you don't buy any oil from Venezuela and Iran. :mrgreen:


Yep, no public transprtation either.


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## Arnie (Jan 5, 2009)

I'll just address a few general points here:

The grapes grown in Europe are growing on American ROOTSTOCK, not from American seed. The American grape varieties are resistant to the fungus(I believe) that ravaged European grapes in the 19th century. So the European varietals were grafted onto American rootstock. Many fruits are grown on hardy root stock, roses too. The climate, soil, latitude, elevation, etc all play their part in the final product. Any given year will produce grapes, tobacco, or any agricultural product slightly different from years past. But the general conditions lead to a general quality consistency in a region. Some strains of a fruit will produce better in one region while a different region produces another variety better.

When you harvest and how you blend come into play in both wines and cigars. A red Bordeaux is a blend of many grapes, mainly Cabernet Sauvignon, Merlot and Cabernet Franc; and most cigars are blends of many varieties of tobacco, grown in different regions. Many Cubans are blended with tobacco from the Vuelta Abajo region only, but they are blended with different varieties and with leaves from different parts of the plant. So the style of the blenders will affect the taste of the cigars. 

Also, if you want to buy cigars only from American-style democracies----good luck with that. Most countries that produce goods for us do not sport the freedoms, prosperity and choices that we have. Pick your poison, so to say. If I felt that way I would just buy Muniemakers, made in the USA with all-Connecticut tobacco. And not all that bad of a cigar.

Price-wise, Cubans are not that bad for the quality. They beat any of the super premiums I've smoked. Whether it's Pepin, Padilla, Opus X, Padron 26,,, I just prefer a RASS or PSD#4. But that's just me.

My 2 cents. And not even worth that, probably.


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## Hermit (Aug 5, 2008)

Buy American - smoke Burley.


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## commonsenseman (Apr 18, 2008)

opcorn:


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## Stinkdyr (Jun 19, 2009)

Welllllllll let's see now. Hmmmmm. I just sparked up a very mediocre RASCC that cost $10 but was worth $2. I will age the rest some more and hope they improve. 

Otoh, I also recently plundered a La Riqueza #5 that cost me $6 but was worth $10.

To each his own.


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## GrtndpwrflOZ (May 17, 2007)

Stinkdyr said:


> Welllllllll let's see now. Hmmmmm. I just sparked up a very mediocre RASCC that cost $10 but was worth $2. I will age the rest some more and hope they improve.
> 
> Otoh, I also recently plundered a La Riqueza #5 that cost me $6 but was worth $10.
> 
> To each his own.


A $10 RASCC !!!!

Bro, you got ripped. I think a box was going for around $80 last month.
$80 / 25 = $3.24 per stick. Where'd ya get $10 from?


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## Habanolover (Feb 22, 2006)

Stinkdyr said:


> Welllllllll let's see now. Hmmmmm. I just sparked up a very mediocre RASCC that cost $10 but was worth $2.


I think you may need to find another place to buy your cigars if you pay $10.00 for a $4.00 cigar! :2


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## GrtndpwrflOZ (May 17, 2007)

madurolover said:


> I think you may need to find another place to buy your cigars if you pay $10.00 for a $4.00 cigar! :2


HEY!!!! 
I know a guy with a back room.
Any stick $18 5 for $75.
Let me know.

Man, I think we're startin to beat on the guy. Live and learn. I've bought cigars for WAY TOO MUCH before. I just don't bad mouth the whole genre for it. (I don't even know if that makes sence)

If you like NC's more power to ya. If ya like CC's then more power to ya. I TRY to still smoke everything.....but alas I keep lighting a sigII or a $10 RASCC....just kidding. $10...that equals $250 a box. WOW, I'll sell ya a box for $200 That's a $50 savings...Sorry, I digress.


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## Nickerson (Mar 19, 2009)

I really side with the author of this article. Cuban cigars seem to have gotten such a reputation the way they are now due to hype. There are hundreds of cigars made by some original Cuban families who now grow outside of Cuba. Fuente, Garcia, Perdomo, Torano, Padron, Oliva, Padilla, and the list goes on and on.

For the prices of just one these "Cuban" cigars that got all hyped up you could buy a box of non-Cubans that have every bit of potential of being as good if not better. I'm always looking for great smokes at a cheap price. Its kind of my goal to find the best cigars at the most affordable price. Its the quality to pricing ratio.


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## commonsenseman (Apr 18, 2008)

Nickerson said:


> I really side with the author of this article. Cuban cigars seem to have gotten such a reputation the way they are now due to hype. There are hundreds of cigars made by some original Cuban families who now grow outside of Cuba. Fuente, Garcia, Perdomo, Torano, Padron, Oliva, Padilla, and the list goes on and on.
> 
> For the prices of just one these "Cuban" cigars that got all hyped up you could buy a box of non-Cubans that have every bit of potential of being as good if not better. I'm always looking for great smokes at a cheap price. Its kind of my goal to find the best cigars at the most affordable price. Its the quality to pricing ratio.


I agree completely, there are just too many fantastic non-cuban cigars, to bother trying to get illegal cigars. I don't even think they're anything special.


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## Habanolover (Feb 22, 2006)

Nickerson said:


> I really side with the author of this article. Cuban cigars seem to have gotten such a reputation the way they are now due to hype. There are hundreds of cigars made by some original Cuban families who now grow outside of Cuba. Fuente, Garcia, Perdomo, Torano, Padron, Oliva, Padilla, and the list goes on and on.
> 
> For the prices of just one these "Cuban" cigars that got all hyped up you could buy a box of non-Cubans that have every bit of potential of being as good if not better. I'm always looking for great smokes at a cheap price. Its kind of my goal to find the best cigars at the most affordable price. Its the quality to pricing ratio.


Cory, as has been stated many times, Cuban cigars in general are not really more expensive than non-Cubans. For the price you would pay for a box of say Fuente King "B"'s I could get a box of Cubans that would blow them out of the water. Of course, like all things cigar, taste is subjective.

I just hate seeing people shy away from Habanos because they think the price is so much higher. Of course as with any cigars some of the special releases, limited runs, etc. will be more expensive.


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## Nickerson (Mar 19, 2009)

madurolover said:


> Cory, as has been stated many times, Cuban cigars in general are not really more expensive than non-Cubans. For the price you would pay for a box of say Fuente King "B"'s I could get a box of Cubans that would blow them out of the water. Of course, like all things cigar, taste is subjective.
> 
> I just hate seeing people shy away from Habanos because they think the price is so much higher. Of course as with any cigars some of the special releases, limited runs, etc. will be more expensive.


Maybe if you go to Cuba itself and pick up some boxes, from prices outside of Cuba from what I've seen so far, everything is in the $25.00 to $50.00+ price range on average.


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## Nickerson (Mar 19, 2009)

bdw1984 said:


> bad form bro bad form


hmm?


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## ssutton219 (Apr 17, 2007)

Smoke what you like.


Its as easy as that....Acid or Cohiba..doesnt matter as long as you enjoy it...


We all do things that might or might not be legal or moral at some point...just different degrees..I know some have pulled the tag off your mattress.


Enjoy the hobby.:grouphug:




Shawn


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## Habanolover (Feb 22, 2006)

ssutton219 said:


> know some have pulled the tag off your mattress.
> 
> Shawn





> <www.puff.com>
> 
> You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to ssutton219 again.


Don't tell me you are a "mattress - detagger" Shawn! :r

Shawn is correct though when he says smoke what you like.


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## commonsenseman (Apr 18, 2008)

ssutton219 said:


> I know some have pulled the tag off your mattress.


What! You pulled the tag off your mattress??? I smell a scandal.
:spy:


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## Tarks (Mar 3, 2009)

Nickerson said:


> Maybe if you go to Cuba itself and pick up some boxes, from prices outside of Cuba from what I've seen so far, everything is in the $25.00 to $50.00+ price range on average.


Do your homework Cory. Only super premium cc's are in this price range. Most of my cc's are in the $5 range. And that's a Canadian $5!


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## K Baz (Mar 2, 2007)

Tarks said:


> Do your homework Cory. Only super premium cc's are in this price range. Most of my cc's are in the $5 range. And that's a Canadian $5!


Long as you don't buy them in Canada :yo:


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## Tarks (Mar 3, 2009)

K Baz said:


> Long as you don't buy them in Canada :yo:


Not true. Muahahahaha! Again, do your homework!!!!


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## Nickerson (Mar 19, 2009)

Tarks said:


> Not true. Muahahahaha! Again, do your homework!!!!


Hard to do homework when you got no books.

Its very hush hush. I know what Google tells me, and theres no other way at the moment :"(.

Why can't you be a better friend Google!?

P.S. Who is that in your avatar...


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## Tarks (Mar 3, 2009)

Nickerson said:


> Hard to do homework when you got no books.
> 
> Its very hush hush. I know what Google tells me, and theres no other way at the moment :"(.
> 
> ...


I would like to say that it is my wife but its not!!! Although my wife does have a great body I would never be able to get her to wear that. Lets just say its my GF! lmao.

When you say google is not your friend does that mean they block certain searches?


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## Habanolover (Feb 22, 2006)

Let's make sure we don't disclose enough information that it leads people to vendors. Afterall, Cubans are illegal in the US.

Thanks guys!


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## Nickerson (Mar 19, 2009)

Tarks said:


> I would like to say that it is my wife but its not!!! Although my wife does have a great body I would never be able to get her to wear that. Lets just say its my GF! lmao.
> 
> When you say google is not your friend does that mean they block certain searches?


Nope, I mean their searches are rubbish. The sources I was looking at had things way over priced, every site on the first 2 pages actually. And their reliability is probably very low. Also most of the good sites from what I see and hear don't promote themselves, don't optimize for search engines and seems to be a word of mouth way of spreading.


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## Arnie (Jan 5, 2009)

Nickerson said:


> I really side with the author of this article. Cuban cigars seem to have gotten such a reputation the way they are now due to hype. There are hundreds of cigars made by some original Cuban families who now grow outside of Cuba. Fuente, Garcia, Perdomo, Torano, Padron, Oliva, Padilla, and the list goes on and on.
> 
> For the prices of just one these "Cuban" cigars that got all hyped up you could buy a box of non-Cubans that have every bit of potential of being as good if not better. I'm always looking for great smokes at a cheap price. Its kind of my goal to find the best cigars at the most affordable price. Its the quality to pricing ratio.


Cory,
I would like to respectfully say that I completely disagree with your statements about the price of CC's and the fact that they are more hype than substance. I have boxes of Garcias, Padrons, Perdomos, etc, so I am not being snobby; but the CC's are better than all of them. I can't say why, but there is something about the taste, the nuances and subtleties in a CC that takes it to the promised land, so to say. And the quality of construction is every bit as good or better. There is a good reason why they are the world's standard, to which all other cigars are compared.

And you can get them for 5 and 6 bucks apiece. Good ones.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

By the way, GO SOX!!!! They are suffering again tonight, but they will break out of it and make some people pay!


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## BigRay023 (Apr 11, 2009)

Tarks' squeeze in his avatar is Sexy Canadian Girl Ashleigh:hungry:


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## K Baz (Mar 2, 2007)

Tarks said:


> Not true. Muahahahaha! Again, do your homework!!!!


Know who\what your saying but I stand behind my not in Canada statement - love to argue why but of course that would out the source

Plus this way sounds more spooky and cryptic

And as always smoke what you like and bigger what others think say or do


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## GrtndpwrflOZ (May 17, 2007)

Has anybody (not a US citizen) clicked on the banner on the top of the page?
You know the vendor we don't speak of.


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## GrtndpwrflOZ (May 17, 2007)

Has anybody (that is not a US citizen) clicked on the banner on the top of the page?
You know the vendor we don't speak of.
I know I see it right there on the right side of the large banner.
I mean Puff put it there. Am I the only one who sees it?

ANYBODY???????


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## Snake Hips (May 30, 2008)

GrtndpwrflOZ said:


> Has anybody (that is not a US citizen) clicked on the banner on the top of the page?
> You know the vendor we don't speak of.
> I know I see it right there on the right side of the large banner.
> I mean Puff put it there. Am I the only one who sees it?
> ...


I'm a US citizen but I have never clicked the banner. I know all I need to know.

Nobody's going to arrest you for clicking it...


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## K Baz (Mar 2, 2007)

I have decided to totally agree with everything in this thread.

DO NOT buy cuban cigars

DO NOT even try cuban cigars

if you are already smoking a cuban cigar STOP

* good now there is more for me.

But honestly if you don't like them don't smoke them

If you don't think they are worth the hype don't talk about them

If you think they are to costly don't buy them

Cigars and taste are personal options

Me I think many cigars much loved on this site are "meh" at best so I sold my stock and let others enjoy them

Now on to more pressing issues like cello on or off - PS we rarely have this arguement in the cuban cigar world.


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## Habanolover (Feb 22, 2006)

I would like to remind everyone that if a site that sells Cuban cigars has an ad here that they are for nn-US members.

*It is illegal for US citizens to buy Cuban products.*


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## McCleod (Apr 16, 2008)

I respect everyone's opinion, even if I do not agree with it -- or portions of it. I think most economists will tell you that the "sweat shop" and child labor issues are bogus. Many of the jobs where people are working for pennies per day are coveted in the third world. It is better to trade with other countries; create jobs that may appear to be less than desirable for others, than try to legislate higher wages for someone and thereby eliminate those jobs. This is a serious issue than cannot be resolved in this forum, but the US has a habit of being very selective when it comes to knocking different repressive regimes. China has to be one of the worst repressive societies, but they are a BIG trading partner of ours. Smoke them if you've got them! Best regards, McCleod.


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## ca21455 (Jul 23, 2006)

Cuban cigars are illegal! What's next, paying for sex?


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## BigRonS (Apr 5, 2008)

Threads like this make me laugh....

Sure there are good non cubans..But chosing not to buy them because you dont agree with their government, thats kinda silly...


i smoke because i enjoy it. i smoke cubans because i enjoy them. Alot more then NC's. the prices arent that different, so why chose a lower grade for the same price?

BTW, i disagree with most things in the first post


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## Nickerson (Mar 19, 2009)

ca21455 said:


> Cuban cigars are illegal! What's next, paying for sex?


Wtf.. You don't have to pay for sex?

I'VE BEEN HAD!!


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## Herf N Turf (Dec 31, 2008)

BigRonS said:


> chosing not to buy them because you dont agree with their government, thats kinda silly...


Good point. I do not agree with my current government, but I still eat Doritos.


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## UPGRAYEDD (Aug 3, 2009)

Ahhh, I used to try to apply these same principles about politics myself. If you look at the modern world, you can't divide economics and politics. Peasants around the world share the same burden of corrupt governments.

I traveled the world over in the U.S. Navy. The list of countries I haven't been to, is much shorter than the other. Cuba is an economic and civil rights trophy compared to many of those places.

I make my living repairing mechanical imported from all over the world and installed by immigrants from everywhere. The imports I own are from the same countries the US exports to. 
My Infinity built in Japan, BMW built in Germany, Ford Lightning built in Canada, Ford Cobra built in Detroit (I consider Detroit a third world country). I have guns from all over Europe and AK's assembled from parts from the who's who list of communist bloc countries. Cans of ammo from Africa, Korea, China, Russia, Bosnia, etc.. Booze and coffee from literally every corner of the globe. Clothing made on every continent. Electronics built from components from everywhere in the freaking universe.

The only people that are subject to the Cuban embargo are the US peasants. Congress lifted its own embargo, but just for the elite on capital hill in 2001. Government statesman, or their "representatives", can travel to Cuba and return with any amount of cigars they wish. "We the People", cannot. Hey, they need someone to have principles and make a point. They just need us to do it because they are above their own embargo.

Quite honestly, Im so much more concerned for US right now, that I don't have time to protest 60 year old Cuban politics. I treat the ban on Cuban cigars with same respect I do speed limit signs.....


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## commonsenseman (Apr 18, 2008)

UPGRAYEDD said:


> Ahhh, I used to try to apply these same principles about politics myself. If you look at the modern world, you can't divide economics and politics. Peasants around the world share the same burden of corrupt governments.
> 
> I traveled the world over in the U.S. Navy. The list of countries I haven't been to, is much shorter than the other. Cuba is an economic and civil rights trophy compared to many of those places.
> 
> ...


Well said sir.


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## BigRonS (Apr 5, 2008)

Herf N Turf said:


> Good point. I do not agree with my current government, but I still eat Doritos.


hahah, that was what i was getting at... You definately put it in better words, lol...


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## Shaz (Oct 10, 2008)

madurolover said:


> I would like to remind everyone that if a site that sells Cuban cigars has an ad here that they are for nn-US members.
> 
> *It is illegal for US citizens to buy Cuban products.*


This is the thing I don't get. I genuinely respect the rules of this forum and abide by them as best I can. But I can't understand the difference between how this forum can post an ad from a source of Cubans , and us discussing or posting a link to same. Especially if the post is geared towards non US citizens. Am I missing something? :dunno:
Telling us it's illigal for US citizens to buy cc's does not explain this discrepancy.
And the line above from Madurolover could just as easily apply to posts by individuals as well.
No disrespect intended. I just fail to see the difference.


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## GrtndpwrflOZ (May 17, 2007)

There are no such things as cuban cigars


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## joncaputo (Sep 29, 2008)

Shaz said:


> This is the thing I don't get. I genuinely respect the rules of this forum and abide by them as best I can. But I can't understand the difference between how this forum can post an ad from a source of Cubans , and us discussing or posting a link to same. Especially if the post is geared towards non US citizens. Am I missing something? :dunno:
> Telling us it's illigal for US citizens to buy cc's does not explain this discrepancy.
> And the line above from Madurolover could just as easily apply to posts by individuals as well.
> No disrespect intended. I just fail to see the difference.


The difference is this. YOU are in the US. The company in question is NOT.


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## Shaz (Oct 10, 2008)

joncaputo said:


> The difference is this. YOU are in the US. The company in question is NOT.


No I"M not in the US. I'm in Canada. I know that this site originates from the US. It would make sense if Puff didn't post ads from sellers of Cubans. At least this way it would be consistent. But you do, and YOU are in the US.
The question still remains unanswered. Why the discrepancy?


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## Tarks (Mar 3, 2009)

My question is, why run the site out of the US. Wouldn't it make more sense to run it out of Canada? We are all here for the same reasons, "cigars". No disrespect to you Jon, just a good ol conversation.


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## joncaputo (Sep 29, 2008)

Shaz said:


> No I"M not in the US. I'm in Canada. I know that this site originates from the US. It would make sense if Puff didn't post ads from sellers of Cubans. At least this way it would be consistent. But you do, and YOU are in the US.
> The question still remains unanswered. Why the discrepancy?


YOU isnt YOU specifically but users of the site who in many instances would be interested in posting links to buying cuban cigars. It would not make sense to us because we have over 25% of our traffic coming from OUTSIDE the US. Its not a discrepancy but a nuance that is misunderstood. Hope this clears it up, but if it doesnt its not changing


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## joncaputo (Sep 29, 2008)

Tarks said:


> My question is, why run the site out of the US. Wouldn't it make more sense to run it out of Canada? We are all here for the same reasons, "cigars". No disrespect to you Jon, just a good ol conversation.


No disrespect taken. I am a US citizen, I live in the US, we are hosted in the US and I have no interest in trying to hide or misrepresent any of the above. It is what it is until the law changes..


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## joncaputo (Sep 29, 2008)

I am ducking out of this thread..just wanted to (once again) clarify our position on cuban cigars and why we do have advertisers here who sell cuban cigars to our non US visitors. carry on.


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## Shaz (Oct 10, 2008)

joncaputo said:


> YOU isnt YOU specifically but users of the site who in many instances would be interested in posting links to buying cuban cigars. It would not make sense to us because we have over 25% of our traffic coming from OUTSIDE the US. Its not a discrepancy but a nuance that is misunderstood. Hope this clears it up, but if it doesnt its not changing


:biggrin1: I don't want this site to change. I like it fine the way it is. It's no biggie to me, as that's the way it's always been. But since the take over from the old forum, there are now ads here that never were there before. I don't care about that, per se. But I still don't get why CC ads can be put on this site. But we can't mention the same companies in our posts. Posts that would not suggest the purchase of cc cigars, but just in passing. 
What I was thinking where it would be useful is possibly outing the known sites that deal with fakes. Or other useful information. Although that's opening up another can of worms. 
Anyway, just asking. It's all good.


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## tx_tuff (Jun 16, 2007)

Shaz said:


> But since the take over from the old forum, there are now ads here that never were there before.


Many of the people who where here before the "take over" will be happy to tell you that yes the old forum did run banners for CCs! So unless you mean specific websites and not just websites that sell CCs then that is a false statement.


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## Shaz (Oct 10, 2008)

tx_tuff said:


> Many of the people who where here before the "take over" will be happy to tell you that yes the old forum did run banners for CCs! So unless you mean specific websites and not just websites that sell CCs then that is a false statement.


I stand corrected. I joined just shortly before the change and couldn't remember for sure. But I was under the impression that it was ad free.
Anyway, it doesn't change that this discrepancy exists. 
But that's ok. I'll stick to pms.


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## Hermit (Aug 5, 2008)

Shaz said:


> But that's ok. I'll stick to pms.


You have pms?


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## Bigtotoro (Jul 5, 2009)

I wanted to post here a week ago but figured it would not be a good idea to go off half cocked. Now that several of you have gone off half cocked for me, I can come in. And anyway, it would be inappropriate of me to make a political comment in response to the political comments of others when I made a big fuss about politics not belonging here. 

So...I do not smoke CC's for the same reason I do not drink Glenrothes 85...I do not have either of them. They are not readily available. I totally would. Like, right NOW. At 3:30am, I would. I guess I'll stick to my regular old Glenrothes or Laphroaig 15 and mc NC's until things change.


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## Stench (Aug 17, 2009)

Bigtotoro said:


> I do not smoke CC's for the same reason I do not drink Glenrothes 85...I do not have either of them. They are not readily available.
> 
> 
> > :amen:
> ...


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## pitbulljimmy (Aug 1, 2009)

If the US lifts its embargo on Cuba.... won't the flood of Cuban cigars into the US markey make the quality of the overall product suffer as manufacturers rush out cigars to meet demand? Won't the cigars be shipped younger, and rolled from tobacco with less age??

Maybe I'm just being greedy... But I say keep the embargo. It gives us Canucks a leg-up!


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## smoke_screen (Dec 1, 2007)

I say, if the embargo is lifted for awhile people will be buying cc's left and right just because they can. Now they can sample the once forbidden fruit. After awhile though it will wear off and they will become like every other cigar. Yes, I do smoke CC's but only once and awhile, and to be honest there are some NC's that I like better than even my favorite CC


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## JGD (Mar 2, 2009)

pitbulljimmy said:


> If the US lifts its embargo on Cuba.... won't the flood of Cuban cigars into the US markey make the quality of the overall product suffer as manufacturers rush out cigars to meet demand? Won't the cigars be shipped younger, and rolled from tobacco with less age??
> 
> Maybe I'm just being greedy... But I say keep the embargo. It gives us Canucks a leg-up!


I know there is disagreement about this, but I for one don't think that the quality out if Cuba will diminish. Even though they are hurting economically now (anyone read the article on the news last week about the toilet paper availability?), it would not be smart to rush out more cigars at lower quality as it would hurt their revenue world wide. What I do think will happen is that we will see Canadian prices in the U.S., not because of the tax, but because of the demand. The only problem with quality I can foresee is that when we go to our local shops and pick up a few cubans they will not be as good as the ones that we are used to smoking. This will not be because of the quality out of Cuba, but because unlike many other shops world wide that have had inventory for years, all of our shops will have mostly new sticks. I believe that Cuba doesn't age the cigars before shipping them out, so we will be buying new sticks as opposed to aged ones. Though, I could be wrong, and only time will tell.

One another note, I do think that tourism in Cuba will change, for the worse as most people will be concerned, as there will be an influx of American tourists. However, if that influx brings better living situations to the people of Cuba, then it is not our place to wish for anything different. Just my two cents.


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## Tarks (Mar 3, 2009)

There is so much i would like to add to this discussion but I think it is in my best interest to stay out of it. I will say that I completely disagree with most of everything that has been posted in this thread in regards to the "Cuban Life". It seems that the media is "brainwashing" Americans into thinking that Cubans are suffering. Damn, I think I have said too much. Sorry.


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## Addiction (May 8, 2007)

I don't forsee a quality problem. I just think that some stores simply won't sell them, they won't be able to meet whatever outrageous demands are put in place to even order them. I suspect that you'd simly see maybe one in ten stores get them and a bit after that you'd start to see LCDHs in the US large markets liek New York, DC, Atlanta, LA, etc.

In the resultant boom 6-7 out of NC brands would collapse, only the very strongest would make it. The people most at risk are probably the people who don't own their own farms as the boom that lasts 8-12 months would make it too expensive for them to keep going. Cuban prices would be high at first but settle after a while because the population of cigar smokers won't grow much in the current anti-smoking environment.


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## Snake Hips (May 30, 2008)

Adding to the above, I don't see the mainstream American smoker liking most Cuban cigars much anyway. The domestic cigar market has evolved in its own direction over the past 50 years in the absence of Cuban smokes. Americans go for big, fat, spicy, make-your-balls-explode-from-nicotine cigars as a trend right now, and Cuban cigars are not, especially in larger formats, very strong. There are only a couple of puros that may be able to stand up to some Nicaraguans in strength, but they aren't popular vitolas, and the Habanos in vitolas that are popular aren't very strong compared to the popular Nicaraguan stuff coming out in recent years. Another "issue" is that Cuba produces no cigars with maduro characteristics. The one maduro they do produce has no similarities to any non-Cuban maduro flavors. Americans like their maduro.

I see Habanos being massively popular here at first because of obvious reasons, but I don't see them threatening non-Cuban companies to any significant degree after the U.S. market acclimates to Cuba's style.


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## Arnie (Jan 5, 2009)

Snake Hips said:


> Adding to the above, I don't see the mainstream American smoker liking most Cuban cigars much anyway. The domestic cigar market has evolved in its own direction over the past 50 years in the absence of Cuban smokes. Americans go for big, fat, spicy, make-your-balls-explode-from-nicotine cigars as a trend right now, and Cuban cigars are not, especially in larger formats, very strong. There are only a couple of puros that may be able to stand up to some Nicaraguans in strength, but they aren't popular vitolas, and the Habanos in vitolas that are popular aren't very strong compared to the popular Nicaraguan stuff coming out in recent years. Another "issue" is that Cuba produces no cigars with maduro characteristics. The one maduro they do produce has no similarities to any non-Cuban maduro flavors. Americans like their maduro.
> 
> I see Habanos being massively popular here at first because of obvious reasons, but I don't see them threatening non-Cuban companies to any significant degree after the U.S. market acclimates to Cuba's style.


Very good points.


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## Addiction (May 8, 2007)

Snake Hips said:


> Adding to the above, I don't see the mainstream American smoker liking most Cuban cigars much anyway. The domestic cigar market has evolved in its own direction over the past 50 years in the absence of Cuban smokes. Americans go for big, fat, spicy, make-your-balls-explode-from-nicotine cigars as a trend right now, and Cuban cigars are not, especially in larger formats, very strong. There are only a couple of puros that may be able to stand up to some Nicaraguans in strength, but they aren't popular vitolas, and the Habanos in vitolas that are popular aren't very strong compared to the popular Nicaraguan stuff coming out in recent years. Another "issue" is that Cuba produces no cigars with maduro characteristics. The one maduro they do produce has no similarities to any non-Cuban maduro flavors. Americans like their maduro.
> 
> I see Habanos being massively popular here at first because of obvious reasons, but I don't see them threatening non-Cuban companies to any significant degree after the U.S. market acclimates to Cuba's style.


And most Cubans aren't that big. Could you imagine going in a B&M and seeing a bunch of 40-46 ring gauge cigars going? Every time I visit one someone is burning a cigar so big it should have come with a kick stand.


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## Snake Hips (May 30, 2008)

Addiction said:


> And most Cubans aren't that big. Could you imagine going in a B&M and seeing a bunch of 40-46 ring gauge cigars going? Every time I visit one someone is burning a cigar so big it should have come with a kick stand.


True, that too. The only Habanos in "American" sizes are horribly expensive limited cigars like Edicion Limitadas and the regionals. There are a few robustos, but they're 50 ring, and there are only a few "toro" sized cigars (Trinidad Robusto Extra, Hoyo de Monterrey Epicure Especial, Montecristo Edmundo, Montecristo Open Eagle, Cohiba Siglo VI and H. Upmann Magnum 50 are the only ones I know of). The favored size in the rest of the world is the petite corona...


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## Habanolover (Feb 22, 2006)

Snake Hips said:


> True, that too. The only Habanos in "American" sizes are horribly expensive limited cigars like Edicion Limitadas and the regionals. There are a few robustos, but they're 50 ring, and there are only a few "toro" sized cigars (Trinidad Robusto Extra, Hoyo de Monterrey Epicure Especial, Montecristo Edmundo, Montecristo Open Eagle, Cohiba Siglo VI and H. Upmann Magnum 50 are the only ones I know of). The favored size in the rest of the world is the petite corona...


So many American smokers miss out on the subtleties of cigars by only smoking the large RG's.
Once I started smoking the Coronas, Pc's, Panatelas, etc. I was amazed at the flavors I could taste.


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## joncaputo (Sep 29, 2008)

madurolover said:


> So many American smokers miss out on the subtleties of cigars by only smoking the large RG's.
> Once I started smoking the Coronas, Pc's, Panatelas, etc. I was amazed at the flavors I could taste.


I am glad this was finally mentioned. I love Panatelas - the flavor for me on these types of cigars for some reason is just more..well..flavorful - size matters no doubt


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## Scott W. (Jul 10, 2008)

joncaputo said:


> I am glad this was finally mentioned. I love Panatelas - the flavor for me on these types of cigars for some reason is just more..well..flavorful - size matters no doubt


I agree and have become a huge fan of the petite corona and corona. At one time all I smoked were robusto and toro sizes. Man what a great little Boli PC can do to brighten up my day.


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## Arnie (Jan 5, 2009)

I've been on the Robusto Train for a long time myself; but I just ordered my first box of Party Shorts. Couldn't resist the great reviews!


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## Scott W. (Jul 10, 2008)

Arnie said:


> I've been on the Robusto Train for a long time myself; but I just ordered my first box of Party Shorts. Couldn't resist the great reviews!


Oh man, you are in for a treat. Just be careful and don't place one on top of your head or your tongue will beat your brains out to get to it. Nice pickup.


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## Arnie (Jan 5, 2009)

Thanks Scott,
That's good advice. I was just thinkin': Man, I oughta put a cigar on top of my head one of these days. What would I do without my Puff pals to help me? LOL


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## Scott W. (Jul 10, 2008)

Arnie said:


> Thanks Scott,
> That's good advice. I was just thinkin': Man, I oughta put a cigar on top of my head one of these days. What would I do without my Puff pals to help me? LOL


Well it sure looks like we dodged that bullet..............whew! Enjoy the sticks brother.


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## baba (Nov 5, 2007)

Interesting point of view Gary. Thanks for sharing. Good points


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