# Dyed Wrappers on Cigars



## itsme_timd (Nov 21, 2008)

I've heard this discussed several times but never thought much of it myself, but I got nailed with one today that made me think twice.

Since RP's OWR made #8 on CA's Top 25 I decided to pull one out of the humi and give it a shot. I've recently read some post on 'cigar wetting' and with the crazy weather here in GA this time of year my humi was a couple points low (62%) so I decided to try it out.

Well... when I rubbed the cigar this is what I got. Ridiculous. I know there are some that have said they don't care about dyed wrappers but if you've got to doctor your stuff up THIS much then you must be starting with some pretty bad wrapper leaf. And what is in the dye that he's using to get this color???

I sure won't run out to buy anymore RP's in the future.


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## zeavran1 (Aug 18, 2009)

That looks nasty. Shame because I like those smokes.


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## RBGTAG (Sep 9, 2009)

I have had the same thing happen with some Rocky Patel R4's I believe they are called. It turned my mouth a reddish brown color, so much that I thought I was bleeding.


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## unsafegraphics (Dec 18, 2009)

RBGTAG said:


> I have had the same thing happen with some Rocky Patel R4's I believe they are called. It turned my mouth a reddish brown color, so much that I thought I was bleeding.


Same here, not to mention that I thought the R4 ws terrible!


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## RBGTAG (Sep 9, 2009)

unsafegraphics said:


> Same here, not to mention that I thought the R4 ws terrible!


Definitely did not live up to the review or my expectations. I guess you do get what you pay for on some occasions.


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## unsafegraphics (Dec 18, 2009)

RBGTAG said:


> Definitely did not live up to the review or my expectations. I guess you do get what you pay for on some occasions.


I got it in CI's Econimic Stimulus Sampler, It had some gems, but this wasn't one of 'em.


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## Herf N Turf (Dec 31, 2008)

Rocky is known for this, but trust me, he ain't near the only one doing it! There's nothing toxic, or unnatural about the dye. I've known this for years, but still smoke that, among other, dye jobs. 

Try wetting a Partagas black. You can use the residue to touch up your gray 

Bottom line, you either like the cigar the way it is, or you don't.


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## unsafegraphics (Dec 18, 2009)

Herf N Turf said:


> Rocky is known for this, but trust me, he ain't near the only one doing it! There's nothing toxic, or unnatural about the dye. I've known this for years, but still smoke that, among other, dye jobs.
> 
> Try wetting a Partagas black. You can use the residue to touch up your gray
> 
> Bottom line, you either like the cigar the way it is, or you don't.


I've had a a few Partagas Black's (love 'em), but I didn't notice any dye on 'em. Gonna keep an eye out for that next go-round...


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## Magnate (Nov 27, 2009)

OMG, that's terrible!! 

I also didn't know Partagas Blacks were dyed... I do like those... and I have some Pronto's in the box now... I'll have to test them. If they're dyed, they're out. 

I hate the idea of smoking dye, frankly. Even ignorantly. I would love to know more cigars that are dyed so that I can avoid them. 

Whether I like the smoke it produces or not, I vote with my dollars and don't want makers to dye their tobacco. I want a genuine product, ya know? 

So yeah, anyone have a list of "known dyers"


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## AMHero (Dec 31, 2009)

Dye!?!!? That sounds disgusting. If it was so good why paint on it like that. EWW

Are you sure its dye and not the wrapper dissolving! (Say anything to convince me its not dye!)


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## Herf N Turf (Dec 31, 2008)

Guys, guys, GUYS! Before you all start running to the landfill with your humidors, don't forget, you *LOVE *these cigars! For the love of God, dying a wrapper is done for no other reason than eye appeal at POS (point of sale). It's simply done to hide water and sun spots; make the wrapper appear more uniform. In most cases, such as RP, it's utterly tasteless. If you want to experience something unnatural, wrap your lips (prelight) around an AF Don Carlos. It has a sweetened wrapper (also a cigar I like). Don't be so naive! Maduro (the fermentation process) does not produce a black, or anywhere _close _to black, effect. Even oscuro, which is naturally darker, doesn't come out black!

Like I said, take the cigar on it's own merit. Don't let a little vegitable dye decide for you.

Hell, I'm smoking an Edge maduro right now. I've known these wrappers were dyed since I started smoking them. I LOVE this cigar and the fact that it's dyed has NO effect on that enjoyment whatsoever.

If you start x-ing out every cigar that has a dyed, or otherwise "manipulated" wrapper, you're gonna have a LOT LESS cigars to enjoy.

Finally, stop sprayin' the damn things and rubbing your hands all over them!


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## itsme_timd (Nov 21, 2008)

AMHero said:


> Are you sure its dye and not the wrapper dissolving! (Say anything to convince me its not dye!)


I wish!

I've discussed that with a few others and one argument that was brought up was that when you brew tea the water turns brown, that is true but there are 2 factors here that make me think that is not the case with these cigars.

1) This was instant, no time for the pigment to 'brew' out of the cigar, the cigar was dampened and my hand was dyed within 1-2 seconds.
2) I've had a lot of other maduros and although they can leave a slight tint, this was very dark - it looked like furniture stain.

I've got an email out to RP now and will share anything that I hear on the subject.


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## itsme_timd (Nov 21, 2008)

Herf N Turf said:


> Finally, stop sprayin' the damn things and rubbing your hands all over them!


LOL! I knew that one was coming! :hat:


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## Herf N Turf (Dec 31, 2008)

itsme_timd said:


> LOL! I knew that one was coming! :hat:


Tim, in case you don't already know, I like you a lot, enjoy the hell out of your posts and consider you a BOTL of the first order. However, COME ON MAN, you're frightening the natives!

Makers have been dying wrappers since before most here smoked their first cigar. It's common practice. Some are more obvious than others. You like the cigar the way it is, or you don't. (Did I already say that?) For instance, tobacco has been rinsed in cocoa since tobacco and cocoa were "discovered" by western europeans, perhaps (and there's evidence of this) before.

*I simply CANNOT believe that this is being treated like some kind of new discovery.*

I also understand that there are a lot of new smokers here, so, for the record...
*
Manufacturers have been dying wrappers for decades! It's nothing new.*


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## arodgers (Sep 10, 2009)

I love the OWR, regardless of dying, but I've had connecticut wrappers turn my fingers brown when I wet them to take the wrapper off of the cigar. This may not necessarily be from dye.


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## itsme_timd (Nov 21, 2008)

Herf N Turf said:


> Tim, in case you don't already know, I like you a lot, enjoy the hell out of your posts and consider you a BOTL of the first order. However, COME ON MAN, you're frightening the natives!
> 
> Makers have been dying wrappers since before most here smoked their first cigar. It's common practice. Some are more obvious than others. You like the cigar the way it is, or you don't. (Did I already say that?) For instance, tobacco has been rinsed in cocoa since tobacco and cocoa were "discovered" by western europeans, perhaps (and there's evidence of this) before.
> 
> ...


Yeah, I've heard the topic several times before and I've always seen the house divided on it. You've got one school of thought that says if you like the cigar then smoke it and another school of thought for those that don't like the wrappers being dyed. For me, this was the first time I ran into it - especially this severely. I've smoked a boatload of maduros and other dark cigars and I do sometimes get the cap a bit moist when smoking but have never seen the coloration on my hands like this.

I would like to know what is used in the dyeing process, I've heard some makers use a 'soup' that may include molasses or cocoa but I just don't know! Maybe it's shoe polish? Furniture stain?????? :wacko:

Another tidbit I didn't know was that cigar makers use paraffin on the wrapper sometimes to give them that sheen we all love. I was chatting with David Blanco at an event and he filled me in on this. You may see what you think is a dark and oily wrapper but it's got food-grade paraffin on it to make it shine more - all about eye appeal.

Personally, I think it's some Voodoo curse they put on the leaf that makes it that dark... and I want no part of that. :bolt:


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## bdw1984 (May 6, 2009)

itsme_timd said:


> Personally, I think it's some Voodoo curse they put on the leaf that makes it that dark... and I want no part of that. :bolt:


classic rg bump material!


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## Cigary (Oct 19, 2007)

Herf N Turf said:


> Try wetting a Partagas black. You can use the residue to touch up your gray
> 
> QUOTE]
> 
> Seriously, does this work? Ask anyone who knows me I have a lot of gray on my beard and if this works I'll go buy a 5 pak tonight.:idea:


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## itsme_timd (Nov 21, 2008)

Cigary said:


> Herf N Turf said:
> 
> 
> > Try wetting a Partagas black. You can use the residue to touch up your gray
> ...


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## Shaz (Oct 10, 2008)

When I first came upon these kind of threads, I was pretty pissed. And the thought of dye on my lips and fingers just made me more upset. But I really haven't had dye coming off like that with these cigars. And I do like some of them a lot. So, I've become ok with this practice. I do like a cigar to look good. But most importantly, it has to taste good. As long as I'm not looking like some kind of goth drag queen.:bolt:


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## Rev2010 (Sep 3, 2008)

What I want to know is how can you really tell the difference between dyed and natural? I ask because I've had these same RP's that left that color of my lips, if I wiped my lips I would have that brown on my hand. BUT!... I noticed recently I get the same thing when wiping my lips when smoking a Padron 4000 Maduro and I seriously doubt Padron dyes their wrappers, I really doubt it though it's possible. So I got to thinking... how much coloring naturally comes off just from the wrappers oils? I'm sure a nicely humidified wrappers oils are not 100% translucent, so they should technically leave a color no? But yeah, I know there is the practice of dying out there, I just wonder how one can truly tell which are dyed and which have a natural color stain.

If someone can factually verify whether Padron dyes theirs or not I would love to know cause sometimes when I get that tart ammonia taste on my lips I wipe them and always get that brown streak though I doubt they are dying them. RP OWR's though definitely seem dyed as I too even get the stain on my fingers which I never really see in other cigars.


Rev.


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## Jimbo57 (Aug 15, 2009)

I'm not gonna say where it looks like Tim's hands have been.... but eeeewwwwww!!!!!

LOL. Dyed wrappers are one of the very first things I happened to read about right after I joined Puff.
Thank goodness because I really would have had Tim's reaction if I hadn't known about it beforehand.

With that said, Tim's example seems a little above the norm unfortunately for him.

But... did you smoke it and what did you still think about it??


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## arodgers (Sep 10, 2009)

Jimbo57 said:


> With that said, Tim's example seems a little above the norm unfortunately for him.


That's because he wet the wrapper for some reason.


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## Cigary (Oct 19, 2007)

Tim,,,the last time this subject matter was brought up I did research on this topic with RP being the centerpiece if he was doing it. I never read anything about where he said Yay or Nay on this. Sooo, like you, I put my interest in this subject matter and sent him an email about it and never heard BOO in return. I didn't take that as a snub,,after all I'm just one person who doesn't blog or hold any kind of power in the cigarworld but since you do blog and have a little more power than I do I hope he answers you with some type of compelling answer that will put this subject matter to bed once and for all.

*You may want to pick up more than a 5'er.... *

Ha Ha,,,God love ya Timmy! I can hardly wait til the "grayness" comes upon you along with his brother Mr. Prostate and their uncle " I GottaTakeaLeak every half hour",,,,good times I tell ya.


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## SmoknTaz (Jun 18, 2008)

arodgers said:


> That's because he wet the wrapper for some reason.


This would be why. _Spraying water on your cigar ..._


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## arodgers (Sep 10, 2009)

SmoknTaz said:


> This would be why. _Spraying water on your cigar ..._


I read the thread, and I understand why it was done in the old days, but after switching wrappers on two cigars and seeing how much stuff came off of even a connecticut wrapper, there's no way I'd try it with one I was planning on smoking soon.


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## PufPufPass (Feb 24, 2010)

I was also curious for some time since some cigars left dye on my lips and fingers, but I think most will give off some color on your finger if you rub the wrapper against your finger after you have some saliva on it, even 5 yr old Opus X perf. No.2 gave off some color. I smoked Fonseca Cubano Limitado Maduro once and it was bad, I was able to paint walls with it, and it was still wet out of the box, definetly they dipped it in something. Hoyo 1066 dark Knight being that black also gave off some paint on my fingers..


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## TonyBrooklyn (Jan 28, 2010)

itsme_timd said:


> I've heard this discussed several times but never thought much of it myself, but I got nailed with one today that made me think twice.
> 
> Since RP's OWR made #8 on CA's Top 25 I decided to pull one out of the humi and give it a shot. I've recently read some post on 'cigar wetting' and with the crazy weather here in GA this time of year my humi was a couple points low (62%) so I decided to try it out.
> 
> ...


Rocky's cigars are notorious for that so are some LGC and Onyx i have seen. Nothing new or worth getting excited about as Don has said its Safe!


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## Richterscale (Jan 8, 2011)

While it's known that a lot of companies dye their cigars, it's also DENIED by many companies and that makes them liars. Whether I enjoy a cigar or not isn't the issue here.. it's been stated earlier that I want to KNOW what I'm ingesting. 

I posted another thread about a possible allergic reaction to a CAO Criollo and Camacho Corojo that I experienced and come to find out it was something in the glue that they capped the stick with which caused my tongue to explode and destroy my sense of taste for weeks. I'm sorry but this is important information and as a consumer I deserve to be made aware of what I'm putting in my mouth and my body. I don't need them to put a disclaimer on a cigar but I definitely want to know WHAT the dye is.. WHAT is in the glue on a CAO Criollo and Camacho Corojo that causes my mouth and lips to swell up. 

That is not alarmist.. it's being an informed consumer. I enjoy a lot of RP's and I'll continue to smoke them but I am definitely interested in what I'm ingesting and you should be too.


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## HWiebe (Jul 13, 2010)

The guy at La Casa Del Habano told me about the wrapper dye jobs last time I was in there. I still love RP OWR and will continue to skome em since I really love that double chocolate muffin flavour.

I understand those that don't like to smoke the mystery dye, but if its dirty hands you're worried about, just leave the band on and hold it between your fingers around the band. That IS after all its original purpose, to keep the rich from staining their white gloves while smoking a delicious cigar.:mrgreen:


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## Oldmso54 (Jul 31, 2010)

Herf N Turf said:


> Guys, guys, GUYS! Before you all start running to the landfill with your humidors, don't forget, you *LOVE *these cigars! For the love of God, dying a wrapper is done for no other reason than eye appeal at POS (point of sale). It's simply done to hide water and sun spots; make the wrapper appear more uniform. In most cases, such as RP, it's utterly tasteless. If you want to experience something unnatural, wrap your lips (prelight) around an AF Don Carlos. It has a sweetened wrapper (also a cigar I like). Don't be so naive! Maduro (the fermentation process) does not produce a black, or anywhere _close _to black, effect. Even oscuro, which is naturally darker, doesn't come out black!
> 
> Like I said, take the cigar on it's own merit. Don't let a little vegitable dye decide for you.
> 
> ...


Love the last line - that's funny LOL


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## Richterscale (Jan 8, 2011)

I'm reading my post again and I hope it doesn't come off nasty. That's not my intent at all. I would just like to be informed when I'm putting something in my mouth (I know.. that's what she said heh) but seriously.. cigarette companies add all kinds of stuff to their smokes and I'm sure it's all for a reason but without giving me the opportunity to know exactly what I'm smoking that's not tobacco I feel misled and suspicious. Having said that.. it's time for a rocky! haha eace:


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## Herf N Turf (Dec 31, 2008)

It's a cigar.

It's bad for you.

Smoke it.

Enjoy it.

Then, die.
_
"Come on you sons of bitches, do you want to live forever?" -Sergeant Major Daniel Joseph "Dan" Daly, USMC, twice awarded the Congressional Medal of Honor_

...


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## Stubby (Dec 6, 2010)

At least it isn't dyed pink!

http://www.cigarforums.net/forums/vb/general-cigar-discussion/265280-pink-cigar.html

LOL!


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## Richterscale (Jan 8, 2011)

Herf N Turf said:


> It's a cigar.
> 
> It's bad for you.
> 
> ...


lol I hear ya brother, I'm fine with the risk I take smoking tobacco. But my recent experiences with the cap glue have shown me that I'm really wanting more info on some of the additives that are not presented upfront that's all. I think that's a legitimate concern. But the truth is that it's likely we'll never know barring absurd disclaimers requiring cigar makers to list everything in them.

But I still want to know what I'm smoking. No amount of concession to "it's all gonna kill us anyway" will make me any less inquisitive. Not that anyone gives a chit about what I want to know.


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## Matt1951 (Apr 25, 2010)

Richterscale said:


> lol I hear ya brother, I'm fine with the risk I take smoking tobacco. But my recent experiences with the cap glue have shown me that I'm really wanting more info on some of the additives that are not presented upfront that's all. I think that's a legitimate concern. But the truth is that it's likely we'll never know barring absurd disclaimers requiring cigar makers to list everything in them.
> 
> But I still want to know what I'm smoking. No amount of concession to "it's all gonna kill us anyway" will make me any less inquisitive. Not that anyone gives a chit about what I want to know.


Given that there are so many cigars to choose from, why smoke a cigar that makes a mess in your hand and mouth? Why buy any cigar from a mfg who sells crap like that? I had the same experience with OWR. I smoke many other maduros with absolutely no mess.


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## sengjc (Nov 15, 2010)

The lines I've come across that leave a stain on your fingers to date are:
. Macanudo Maduro
. La Gloria Cubana (NC) Maduro
. El Credito Maduro

Incidentally these share the same trait in that they leave a sour-plastic like note towards the final third.


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## Cigary (Oct 19, 2007)

Just to add another thought....I've been "wetting" my cigars for nearly 8 months now and everyone needs to understand that just about any cigar is going to leave its' coloring. When I wet my cigars I place it on a paper towel to let it rest and will roll it up lightly to absorb the water on the wrapper...very lightly. Guess what? You will see the color of the wrapper left on the towel and I have seen the process of the wrapper in the videos that most of us have seen. I recognize that some leave behind more and some less but to discount those cigars because of the amount left behind is throwing the baby out with the bath water.


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## sengjc (Nov 15, 2010)

I might clarify that the "stain on the fingers" in reference is from just smoking the cigar.

Agreed that if you wet your wrapper there will be a brown stain. No doubt you will experience this even with extra claro and candela wrappers, typically all tobacco.


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## CaptainBlenderman (Sep 3, 2010)

Richterscale said:


> lol I hear ya brother, I'm fine with the risk I take smoking tobacco. But my recent experiences with the cap glue have shown me that I'm really wanting more info on some of the additives that are not presented upfront that's all. I think that's a legitimate concern. But the truth is that it's likely we'll never know barring absurd disclaimers requiring cigar makers to list everything in them.
> 
> But I still want to know what I'm smoking. No amount of concession to "it's all gonna kill us anyway" will make me any less inquisitive. Not that anyone gives a chit about what I want to know.


I'm actually with you, Jason. While I have no problem with the notion of a little color being left behind (I'm sure to some degree that would happen anyway), and I'm not saying that knowing that dye is being used would necessarily keep me from enjoying certain cigars, I do like knowing what it is and when they are doing it. If I had to choose, I would opt for an uglier cigar that was not dyed but tasted good. If I had some way of knowing which ones those were, I would tend to gravitate towards them...perhaps it's the "purist" in me that likes things as unadulterated as possible. I find it hard to believe that dye wouldn't affect the flavor at least somewhat. I'm sure they are food-grade dyes and are likely pretty harmless, but it is also likely that some are dyed more than others and that perhaps cheaper sticks use cheaper dyes, etc. It would just be nice to know...

Maybe the dyes on the maduros are cocoa-based and that is why they often taste like chocolate (and stain your fingers brown). Knowing something like that would help, I think. Besides, if I smoke a cheaper maduro and it tasted weird, it would be nice to know that it might be the dye and not the tobacco...perhaps it would be a cheapie that would be best smoked in a sumatra or cameroon wrapper instead of a dyed maduro. I don't know...I'm talkin' out my arse here...


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## Richterscale (Jan 8, 2011)

CaptainBlenderman said:


> I'm actually with you, Jason. While I have no problem with the notion of a little color being left behind (I'm sure to some degree that would happen anyway), and I'm not saying that knowing that dye is being used would necessarily keep me from enjoying certain cigars, I do like knowing what it is and when they are doing it. If I had to choose, I would opt for an uglier cigar that was not dyed but tasted good. If I had some way of knowing which ones those were, I would tend to gravitate towards them...perhaps it's the "purist" in me that likes things as unadulterated as possible. I find it hard to believe that dye wouldn't affect the flavor at least somewhat. I'm sure they are food-grade dyes and are likely pretty harmless, but it is also likely that some are dyed more than others and that perhaps cheaper sticks use cheaper dyes, etc. It would just be nice to know...
> 
> Maybe the dyes on the maduros are cocoa-based and that is why they often taste like chocolate (and stain your fingers brown). Knowing something like that would help, I think. Besides, if I smoke a cheaper maduro and it tasted weird, it would be nice to know that it might be the dye and not the tobacco...perhaps it would be a cheapie that would be best smoked in a sumatra or cameroon wrapper instead of a dyed maduro. I don't know...I'm talkin' out my arse here...


I think you're completely on target.


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## Johnny Rock (Jun 25, 2010)

Time for this link again, some great wrapper info by Steve Saka:

Maduro Education - by Steve Saka | Tobacconist University Blog


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## CaptainBlenderman (Sep 3, 2010)

Johnny Rock said:


> Time for this link again, some great wrapper info by Steve Saka:
> 
> Maduro Education - by Steve Saka | Tobacconist University Blog


+1 Great link John, thanks!

This doesn't answer all the questions of who dyes and what it is, but at least I know of a decent way to check by looking at the wrapper.


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## xhris (Sep 7, 2006)

I hope im not adding fuel to the fire, but IMHO it takes away from MY overall smoking experience, regardless if its purely aesthetic and doesn't affect the taste. For me, the visual aspect of smoking a cigar is almost as important as the taste, and dyeing the wrapper to make it look better just feels unnatural. Like Capt.Blenderman said, if two cigars tasted exactly the same and i knew one was dyed and the other was not, i'd go for the un-dyed one every time.


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## xJaCkSlApx (May 7, 2010)

Herf N Turf said:


> Guys, guys, GUYS! Before you all start running to the landfill with your humidors, don't forget, you *LOVE *these cigars! For the love of God, dying a wrapper is done for no other reason than eye appeal at POS (point of sale). It's simply done to hide water and sun spots; make the wrapper appear more uniform. In most cases, such as RP, it's utterly tasteless. If you want to experience something unnatural, wrap your lips (prelight) around an AF Don Carlos. It has a sweetened wrapper (also a cigar I like). Don't be so naive! Maduro (the fermentation process) does not produce a black, or anywhere _close _to black, effect. Even oscuro, which is naturally darker, doesn't come out black!
> 
> Like I said, take the cigar on it's own merit. Don't let a little vegitable dye decide for you.
> 
> ...


i am smoking one too and damn these sticks are nice probably my frav maduro


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