# JR Cigar catalog



## orca99usa (May 23, 2008)

I just got the latest JR Cigar catalog. It reads like an obituary for the cigar industry. There is a long narrative in the front in which they talk about the multitudes of products they are no longer allowed to sell, and they talk about taxes gradually putting them out of business. The catalog contains no pictures (aside from one on the back cover). It is nothing more than a price list. They say that "Half the products in this catalog will not exist a year from now."

I have not heard any other cigar vendor make such dire statements. Are they being overly dramatic, or is there something that other sellers aren't saying? It was a very depressing read. It certainly didn't put me in the mood to buy anything.


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## skiswitch6 (Aug 13, 2010)

Just for clarification... is this the one with the title "Uncle Sam Wants Smokers"? I'm going to download it online and give it a once over. If someone wants to post the link to the download... I'm about 3 posts away still from being able to do that.


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## saigon68 (Apr 16, 2009)

Yeah I read it & it does appear to be a cigar obit. Very glum. I don't know as to the total veracity of the article, however based on what I see in the news every day it is striking. Perception is reality. Sad.


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## emk (May 4, 2009)

JR's has a history of exaggerating and being overly dramatic. If JR's cannot sell everything that it did before, what will be gone? Not normal, handmade cigars. Cigarettes masquerading as cigars, flavored...etc....good riddance.

For the moment, some cigars are significantly discounted and are listed w/o all the stories that may be amusing to someone but may be insulting to some people's intelligence.

Imagine looking through a catalog for good cigars at low prices? Isn't that what a catalog is for? I'm amazed, amused, & discouraged by all the concern that cigar-smokers have for the stories for & about blenders, manufacturers, & vendors. The news is: some prices are lower.


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## Cigary (Oct 19, 2007)

Probably the reason why I buy as much as I do lately..subscribing to the theory that one day they may all be gone. That is a sad thing to think about...meanwhile back on the auction cigar sites.........


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## thegoldenmackid (Mar 16, 2010)

It was part of the two-fold marketing campaign of that catalog.
A. We are going out of business
B. This was our accidentally released wholesale list.

Both are a crock of ____.

For those that are unaware, JR is owned by General Cigar. General's parent company, Swedish Match, and Scandinavian Tobacco merged. What this means is that CAO is now part of the general conglomerate. 

They aren't dying and the taxes are a load of crap. North Carolina's taxes aren't New York's. Furthermore, SCHIP didn't hurt that many business, most retailers just screwed around with keystoning and ended up raising their prices dramatically more than the $.40 maximum of SCHIP.

If you want to talk to people that are in risk of going out of business, not doing well and unable to get the proper supply... go talk to your B&M, not Cigars International or JR (both of whom are owned by larger tobacco conglomerates) 

The only truth to the "not being able to sell certain brands" is that smaller companies: Miami Cigar, My Father, etc. are coming out with new labels that are for B&Ms only. The reason: because Cigars International and JR have screwed them long enough and prostituted their products on the internet.

/rant.


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## humbertothehorrible (Oct 3, 2006)

thegoldenmackid said:


> It was part of the two-fold marketing campaign of that catalog.
> A. We are going out of business
> B. This was our accidentally released wholesale list.
> 
> ...


Correction: JR is owned by Altadis (Europe). CI is owned by Swedish Match.


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## orca99usa (May 23, 2008)

> If you want to talk to people that are in risk of going out of business, not doing well and unable to get the proper supply... go talk to your B&M, not Cigars International or JR (both of whom are owned by larger tobacco conglomerates)


The last time I went to the B&M I frequent most often, I got a chance to talk to the owner with no one else around. The picture was glum. Many of his regular customers have either lost their jobs entirely or had their salaries cut so significantly that luxuries (like cigars) are out of the question. He was behind on submitting his lease payment for the month, but he had worked something out with the property owner. He said that he was "going to hang on as long as I can". I would hate to see this place go, but I understand the economics.



> I'm amazed, amused, & discouraged by all the concern that cigar-smokers have for the stories for & about blenders, manufacturers, & vendors.


I'm particularly amused by the ones along the lines of "The manufacturer screwed up on an order years ago, and the screwup was so wildly popular that we have them made this way now." No manufacturer with anything approaching quality control will "accidentally" send out orders with the wrong number of cigars in every box, or cigars that missed the banding process, or cigars that were bundled instead of boxed. I just don't buy it. It may make for a semi-amusing story, but as a business person I would be reluctant to do business with a supplier who was constantly botching orders.


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## Changeup (Aug 10, 2010)

JR = Overly aggressive marketing tactics with a flare for dramatics which I find at times amusing but more often annoying. Unfortunately, they carry a brand or two that I can not seem to find anywhere else.

Best regards.


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## thegoldenmackid (Mar 16, 2010)

humbertothehorrible said:


> Correction: JR is owned by Altadis (Europe). CI is owned by Swedish Match.


Yeah thanks. Not sure what I was thinking when writing that. Guess I just wanted to complain about General.


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## AJ FERNANDEZ FAN (Aug 10, 2010)

Yeah I got that catalog too and thought it was a little drastic. I chalked it up as more of a scare tactic more then anything.


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## Jeff (Jan 2, 2005)

orca99usa said:


> I'm particularly amused by the ones along the lines of "The manufacturer screwed up on an order years ago, and the screwup was so wildly popular that we have them made this way now." No manufacturer with anything approaching quality control will "accidentally" send out orders with the wrong number of cigars in every box, or cigars that missed the banding process, or cigars that were bundled instead of boxed. I just don't buy it. It may make for a semi-amusing story, but as a business person I would be reluctant to do business with a supplier who was constantly botching orders.


LOL This is so true. These "stories" are simply ridiculous. Its about as real as WWF wrestling.


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## Rosie (Jul 10, 2010)

From just looking at the brands that I normally buy, most of them are slightly lower in the new catalog, maybe by 3 or 4 dollars. It seems like a lot of the stuff, though, seems much lower priced, mostly stuff that has been too pricey for me to buy anyway. Quite a few of the items are more expensive than I've bought them from JR in the past. So, in no way is this catalog a "printing screwup".

I was listening to Cigar Dave yesterday, and he said that at the IPCPR convention the two biggest trends were more ecomomy priced smokes and more labels for B&M only.

I think most of the doom and gloom from the industry is that the profit margins will no longer be what they once were. A lot of folks don't have the funds to spend a lot on cigars anymore. Both suppliers and retailers will have to streamline in order to survive.

When SCHIP was first signed, I thought it would be a huge hit in my enjoyment of cigars. However, in reality, for me anyway, the prices have gotten cheaper on the brands I buy on a regular basis in the last year and a half. There are much better specials these days and I get more for my money.

It seems that many times, what's bad for suppliers and retailers is ultimately good for consumers. As long as said suppliers and retailers stay in business, that is.

Cheers,

Rosie


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## thegoldenmackid (Mar 16, 2010)

Rosie said:


> I was listening to Cigar Dave yesterday, and he said that at the IPCPR convention the two biggest trends were more ecomomy priced smokes and more labels for B&M only.


Not sure if Dave and I were at the same convention. The most popular price range seemed to be the $6-$8 range. The $5 range seems to have slowed down. B&M only sticks and the $5 have also been the trend since the last show.

The theme of IPCPR this year was: extensions.


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## oldforge (Apr 30, 2008)

thegoldenmackid said:


> The reason: because Cigars International and JR have screwed them long enough and prostituted their products on the internet.
> /rant.


One man's prostitute is another one's love of a lifetime.


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## craig_o (Aug 9, 2010)

thegoldenmackid said:


> It was part of the two-fold marketing campaign of that catalog.
> A. We are going out of business
> B. This was our accidentally released wholesale list.
> 
> ...


All I know is, I ordered two boxes of CAO Anniversary Maduros. :bowdown:


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## thegoldenmackid (Mar 16, 2010)

craig_o said:


> All I know is, I ordered two boxes of CAO Anniversary Maduros. :bowdown:


Probably a good call. I really wonder how much longer General is going to be willing to pay CAO prices for tobacco. I see a lot of blends going away or getting massively changed. Albeit, probably not the La Traviata or Brazillia.


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## Warren (Apr 6, 2007)

I didn't see many good deals in their catalog when you figure in the $9 for shipping. If you were going to buy several boxes it might be okay but most people grab a bundle or a box so if you tack on $9 to those prices it's nothing special.


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## craig_o (Aug 9, 2010)

Warren said:


> I didn't see many good deals in their catalog when you figure in the $9 for shipping. If you were going to buy several boxes it might be okay but most people grab a bundle or a box so if you tack on $9 to those prices it's nothing special.


Their selection doesn't seem better than FSS, either. No Olivas?! Really? But the CAOs I mentioned were going for $87 a box on backorder, plus a gimmie pack of robustos. Pretty difficult to beat.


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## 1029henry (Jan 18, 2010)

On their website, they claim they made a giant mistake and let their wholesale price list out and mailed one to every cigar smoker on the planet. What a load of horse crap. How dumb do they think we are? How insulting.They'll get no more business from me.


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## orca99usa (May 23, 2008)

I'm sure that nobody proofread the catalog when it was printed. And if those were wholesale prices, they weren't that special.


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## orca99usa (May 23, 2008)

> One man's prostitute is another one's love of a lifetime.


The major sellers allow them to move a lot more product. Do the manufacturers want to sell as many cigars as they do now, or 25% of what they currently sell but get full price for each one? The number is a guess, but you get the point.


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## c2000 (Oct 16, 2003)

Here is my take on all of this.. First of all during the cigar boom the manufactures and vendors were selling shit for big money, the prices went way up on everything because they could get it..Then when the boom was over everything stayed the same price.. Also when I first started smoking most of the box sizes were 25 count then somewhere along the line almost all the boxes started to be 20 count and the price stayed the same I think that the cigar manufacturers can discount their product a little to help the vendors stay in business..

Jerry in Minnesota.


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## thegoldenmackid (Mar 16, 2010)

c2000 said:


> Here is my take on all of this.. First of all during the cigar boom the manufactures and vendors were selling shit for big money, the prices went way up on everything because they could get it..Then when the boom was over everything stayed the same price.. Also when I first started smoking most of the box sizes were 25 count then somewhere along the line almost all the boxes started to be 20 count and the price stayed the same I think that the cigar manufacturers can discount their product a little to help the vendors stay in business..
> 
> Jerry in Minnesota.


Great stuff Jerry. There also was a major discrepancy on post SCHIP keystoning...

Pinnacle of your sentiments in recent memory: Flor de Oliva, raised prices post SCHIP and went from 25 to 20.


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## Arnie (Jan 5, 2009)

I'm beginning to think this JR catalog was a stroke of marketing genius.
This is the third thread I have seen talking about it. How often do you see so many folks talking about one catalog?
I bought three boxes and 3 5ers and got a good price on cigars I like but would have put off buying for awhile. Jr has done it again.

On a different note; a customer of mine has a son in the B&M business. He runs a really nice place and is very smart. He outfitted all the hotels downtown with humidors and spends his days filling them up with smokes. He has some very nice house blends made by Oliva and RP. 4 or 5 years ago business was booming and he was pretty flush. About 6 months ago I asked the dad how business was at the "shop" and he told me they are "just paying the bills." These are not good times in the cigar business world. If your experience is coming here and perusing the What's your latest purchase thread, and go to your B&M thinking he's getting rich you are likely mistaken. 
I haven't taken the time to look up General's or Swedish Match's public ledgers but I bet if you did you might find they are not making the big bucks we assume they are. There just might be red ink there. 

The point is, there might be more than a grain of truth in the BS Lew was shoveling in that catalog. This is not a great time to be selling tobacco.


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## thegoldenmackid (Mar 16, 2010)

Arnie, I agree with the notion that the cigar business isn't going well... 

Difference is JR isn't closing anytime soon. (Sure does help when you happen to be the Altadis corporate store doesn't it)


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## Arnie (Jan 5, 2009)

thegoldenmackid said:


> Arnie, I agree with the notion that the cigar business isn't going well...
> 
> Difference is JR isn't closing anytime soon. (Sure does help when you happen to be the Altadis corporate store doesn't it)


Charlie, I wasn't implying JR was going under any time soon. But in general, tobacco is not the gravy train it was in years past. It's slowly fading away.


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## CWL (Mar 25, 2010)

Of course most of it is marketing hooey, but we're all suckers for a pretty leaf...

If you know your prices and are prepared to make a big order, you can save some money off the latest catalog. I made some purchases and did save money, especially now that we don't get raped with the shipping costs (more of a "grope" @ &8.95)


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## craig_o (Aug 9, 2010)

CWL said:


> Of course most of it is marketing hooey, but we're all suckers for a pretty leaf...
> 
> If you know your prices and are prepared to make a big order, you can save some money off the latest catalog. I made some purchases and did save money, especially now that we don't get raped with the shipping costs (more of a "grope" @ &8.95)


:rofl: "grope."


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## Rosie (Jul 10, 2010)

Arnie said:


> Charlie, I wasn't implying JR was going under any time soon. But in general, tobacco is not the gravy train it was in years past. It's slowly fading away.


I think the cigar business has been out of whack since the boom. The profit margins exploded and everyone expected them to stay that way forever. I think when everything shakes out, it will ultimately be better for consumers.

Cheers,

Rosie


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## JackH (Aug 13, 2009)

I realize JR's shipping has gone up but the Nat Sherman Omerta's price went from $29.95 to $20.25 so I bought 3 6-packs.


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## Rosie (Jul 10, 2010)

JackH said:


> I realize JR's shipping has gone up but the Nat Sherman Omerta's price went from $29.95 to $20.25 so I bought 3 6-packs.


Yes! I jumped on this as well. The only cigar from Nat Sherman that I really like. You can't beat that price with a stick!

Cheers,

Rosie


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## orca99usa (May 23, 2008)

Around here it seems that every strip mall has a smoke shop, and most of them carry cigars. I have learned not to waste my time with a place unless cigars are their primary business. Otherwise I'm looking at five or six kinds of overpriced sticks being sold by someone who knows nothing about them.


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## canney (Sep 2, 2007)

I still get the catalog even though I havent bought from them in years goes straight to the trash


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## Oldmso54 (Jul 31, 2010)

humbertothehorrible said:


> Correction: JR is owned by Altadis (Europe). CI is owned by Swedish Match.


 I know I am a little late to this thread (and a little naive I guess) but it's an absolute fact that JR is owned by Altadis and CI is owned by Swedish Match??


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## kenelbow (Jan 14, 2010)

I've never bought from them, yet somehow they got my address and sent me a catalog. I read the opening statement about the cigar industry being doomed and pitched the catalog. I hate alarmist statements. What a load of crap.


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## Turtle (Aug 24, 2010)

Eh, but doing a google search of PACT Act (yes, it was passed last year) revealed some amusing news stories. 

Apparently it is now illegal to mail tobacco products to troops - if you send to APO, etc it has to be shipped Express mail - but they can't get Express mail, thus any other form is illegal...

But I'm not sure why JR is harping on it... well except for marketing. PACT at least as far as I understand it, deals with cigarettes and smokeless tabacco.. not cigars.


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## smelvis (Sep 7, 2009)

Turtle said:


> Eh, but doing a google search of PACT Act (yes, it was passed last year) revealed some amusing news stories.
> 
> Apparently it is now illegal to mail tobacco products to troops - if you send to APO, etc it has to be shipped Express mail - but they can't get Express mail, thus any other form is illegal...
> 
> But I'm not sure why JR is harping on it... well except for marketing. PACT at least as far as I understand it, deals with cigarettes and smokeless tabacco.. not cigars.


That has been reversed, though it was never enforced with me at least.


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## dpcoz (Aug 24, 2010)

Arnie said:


> I'm beginning to think this JR catalog was a stroke of marketing genius.
> This is the third thread I have seen talking about it. How often do you see so many folks talking about one catalog?
> I bought three boxes and 3 5ers and got a good price on cigars I like but would have put off buying for awhile. Jr has done it again.
> 
> ...


I've visited two of JR's Superstores in North Carolina in the last four years - huge sales area, but no spot to sit down and smoke, although its more of a roadside attraction that a regular hangout.

Anyone remember the old JR catalogues where the owner would tell stories and curse? Quality bathroom reading!


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## Woodsroad (Sep 7, 2010)

I was in the JR Statesville store two days ago, and the staff were "quietly" telling everyone about the big mistake in the catalog, and that folks should run home, check it out, and order as much as possible before the mistake gets fixed. Well, that struck me kinda funny. I had looked at that catalog when it arrived at my house, and there were no price drops on anything that I liked.
Lew is brilliant, but does he still write the catalog? I'm doubting it.


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