# No love for quality, estate meerschaums?



## DeeSkank (May 26, 2010)

Ever since I've heard about meerschaum pipes, I've CRAVED one. My experience with briar has been sub-par, especially when I can buy a MM cob for 1/10th the price that smokes just as well (at least in my noob opinion).

I've been scouring ebay and the WTS threads here for a quality meerschaum based on recommendations here (Altinok, IMP, Baki) but I can't seem to find ANY quality estate pipes. Is there another website where I could pick one up?

Is it just that everyone loves their meerschaum pipes so much, that they can't seem to part with one? I'm assured that paying retail for one is WELL worth it. I've been itching to order this pipe from Altinok for weeks Altinok Pipe - New Horizons 132 but my college budget won't allow it.

Come on you stingy men! Someone must have a quality meerschaum that they could part with.


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## J. R. Henderson (Oct 30, 2010)

Hmmm. I've done a whole lot of shopping around for pipes recently, meers included, and I don't think you can get a quality meer for less than $100 new — certainly not from Altinok or Peterson. I can see why you're looking for an estate meer. I think they're rarer to see in estates because briars are far more common. Plus, intricate, colored quality meers sell for far more than $100, estate or no.

Google "estate meerschaum" and click on the first link, to thesmoker.com (I'm still too new to post links). I see an estate block meer for $55 on that page, a ways down it. BUT, I don't know if it's a quality meer. Someone with more knowledge would have to tell you that.


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## Broz (Oct 16, 2010)

I've been casually checking estate meer auctions (in addition to pipe auctions in general). From what I've seen there is a lot of meers of dubious origin selling for well under retail... I'm afraid that if I do buy an estate meer that it will be junk.


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## DeeSkank (May 26, 2010)

J. R. Henderson said:


> Hmmm. I've done a whole lot of shopping around for pipes recently, meers included, and I don't think you can get a quality meer for less than $100 new - certainly not from Altinok or Peterson. I can see why you're looking for an estate meer. I think they're rarer to see in estates because briars are far more common. Plus, intricate, colored quality meers sell for far more than $100, estate or no.
> 
> Google "estate meerschaum" and click on the first link, to thesmoker.com (I'm still too new to post links). I see an estate block meer for $55 on that page, a ways down it. BUT, I don't know if it's a quality meer. Someone with more knowledge would have to tell you that.


From what I've found, all the cheaper estate meers tend to have intricate carving. That throws up a red flag for me, at least per their smoking quality. I'd be more than happy to have a basic design but have a superior smoker.


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## Contrabass Bry (May 3, 2010)

I think it would be risky business to look for an estate meer at this stage of the game. There would be no guarantee of it being block, not pressed AND if were treated properly AND if it were severely ghosted with something you wouldn't/couldn't stand tasting (removing ghosts isn't as simple as with briar).

I'd keep your eye on fleabay and pick up a new IMP (meerfan). They have many standard shapes that range from $60-$85. They will even accept offers below the "BIN" price.


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## dmkerr (Oct 27, 2008)

DeeSkank said:


> From what I've found, all the cheaper estate meers tend to have intricate carving. That throws up a red flag for me, at least per their smoking quality. I'd be more than happy to have a basic design but have a superior smoker.


I have an IMP that I'd be willing to part with. Sorry, I don't have any pics and no means to take any (digital camera died and has yet to be replaced). It's about a Group 4 size full bent, just starting to color on the shank. Not sure what shape I'd call it - somewhere between an egg and a billiard. Very deep bend but pipecleaners pass through pretty easily. It's an excellent smoker with a full draft but the bowl is a little small for me and I don't smoke it much. I think it sold for about $130 new and I'd be willing to sell it for $50.

If you want to take a chance, here's what we can do. I'll ship it to you. If you like it and want to keep it, you send me a check for $50. If you don't, send it back and you're only out the cost of shipping it back to me. I'd first need to clean it up a bit. Let me know if you're interested. I can guarantee the high quality of the pipe but of course can't guarantee you'll like it.


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## Jimmyc (Nov 5, 2009)

Really nice offer dmkerr!


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## indigosmoke (Sep 1, 2009)

Jimmyc said:


> Really nice offer dmkerr!


+1! He's one of the best BOTL out there. If it were a straight pipe I'd be all over this offer. $50 for what I know will be a very well cared for IMP Meer is a screaming deal. You'd be lucky to find a crap size 4 meer for that price. Bent pipe lovers hurry up and PM him to position yourself first in line for this fantastic offer. This is going to make some piper one very happy camper. I'd bump his RG up yet again if I didn't have to spread some love (and RG) around first.


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## DeeSkank (May 26, 2010)

dmkerr said:


> I have an IMP that I'd be willing to part with. Sorry, I don't have any pics and no means to take any (digital camera died and has yet to be replaced). It's about a Group 4 size full bent, just starting to color on the shank. Not sure what shape I'd call it - somewhere between an egg and a billiard. Very deep bend but pipecleaners pass through pretty easily. It's an excellent smoker with a full draft but the bowl is a little small for me and I don't smoke it much. I think it sold for about $130 new and I'd be willing to sell it for $50.
> 
> If you want to take a chance, here's what we can do. I'll ship it to you. If you like it and want to keep it, you send me a check for $50. If you don't, send it back and you're only out the cost of shipping it back to me. I'd first need to clean it up a bit. Let me know if you're interested. I can guarantee the high quality of the pipe but of course can't guarantee you'll like it.


Wow! What a generous offer! I would love to take you up on that. It says a lot about your character. Im in class right now on my iPhone, but feel free to PM me the details or Ill shoot you one in a few.

EDIT: Is it either of these? I'm trying to find the pipe that fits your description.
http://www.smokingpipes.com/pipes/new/imp/moreinfo.cfm?product_id=63219

http://www.smokingpipes.com/pipes/new/imp/moreinfo.cfm?product_id=63216


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## dmkerr (Oct 27, 2008)

Contrabass Bry said:


> I think it would be risky business to look for an estate meer at this stage of the game. There would be no guarantee of it being block, not pressed AND if were treated properly AND if it were severely ghosted with something you wouldn't/couldn't stand tasting (removing ghosts isn't as simple as with briar).


Sadly, this is true. Once you remove Deniz Ural and Sinan Altinok from the equation, you're taking a huge risk with buying meerschaum pipes through the 'net. Musn't forget Mike at IKMeerschaum, though - another topnotch dude! There is a test one can do to determine if the meer is block or pressed, but not until you're holding it in your hands - and by then it may be too late if the seller doesn't accept returns. The trick is to buy from a knowledgable PIPE seller, not an antique shop that gets a meer once in a blue moon and has no idea about it. Ask the seller questions. Particularly you'll want to ask if the draw is open. Ask the seller to insert a pipe cleaner from the bit opening all the way to the shank. If it goes through without too much trouble, you'll have a good smoker. Remember that these artisan carvers are not engineers. They can carve a beautiful pipe but a lot of them can't make a proper draft hole. Comparing the smoke of any of my Bakis against my one Bekler CAO tells the tale. The Bekler is an exquisite carving that smokes ok. The Baki is exquisite as well, but it also smokes great!

Also note that unless one is an established meer smoker, a pressed meer will smoke about the same. It won't color as well and it'll be heavier due to its non-porous nature, but if kept clean it should taste about the same. The lack of porosity will necessitate a thorough cleaning regularly, but so does block meer. I Everclear mine every 3-5 smokes. It takes about 2 minutes and does a million bucks worth of good. So a nice pressed meer will be cheaper and provide a good smoke but you'll miss half the fun of meer smoking - watching them color! Plus if you prefer big pipes as I do, a pressed meer will snap your jaw due to its extra weight. Pressed is like a basket pipe - fine at its intended duty but certainly nothing to write home about.

There's really no way to remove a ghost in a meer other than smoking it until the ghost "gives up the ghost". An Everclear bath (inside only, please!) helps but if cherry blend was smoked in it for 62 years, it'll taste like cherry for the next 62 smokes. Not much you can do about it other than suffer. So ask if the seller knows what was smoked. Chances are he does. If he doesn't, it's a coin flip, I suppose.

So don't automatically write off an Ebay estate pipe, but do exercise some due diligence.

Edit: Sheesh, I had no idea I was rambling until I saw my post in its finished state. Sorry about that, folks!


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## dmkerr (Oct 27, 2008)

DeeSkank said:


> Wow! What a generous offer! I would love to take you up on that. It says a lot about your character. Im in class right now on my iPhone, but feel free to PM me the details or Ill shoot you one in a few.
> 
> EDIT: Is it either of these? I'm trying to find the pipe that fits your description.
> I.M.P. Meerschaum Extra Large Smooth Bent Egg Pipes at Smoking Pipes .com
> ...


It's closer to the first one but not exactly. It also has a silver band around the stem at the shank end, which adds to its aesthetics as well as its price tag. lol.

I'll PM you shortly.


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## Contrabass Bry (May 3, 2010)

dmkerr said:


> Edit: Sheesh, I had no idea I was rambling until I saw my post in its finished state. Sorry about that, folks!


Your post is nothing like rambling. More like sage advice. Thanks for expanding on my comments. Every bit of info can help now and for future reference.

Keep on doing what you do!


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## CWL (Mar 25, 2010)

Be really wary of eBay estate Meers. I gave it a try and am hitting about 25% success for getting a decent pipe. I have received 2 good pipe and several that need new stems, tenons plus some that are just outright broken in unrepairable areas. Even bought a nice-looking calabash until I took the cap off. The Meer underneath had been broken into 2 pcs and then superglued back together again.

You should only deal with people you know or who have a good rep'.


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## J. R. Henderson (Oct 30, 2010)

It seems odd to me that intricately carved meerschaum pipes (not the super-intricate ones, but your standard bearded guy wearing a turban, _et al_) are more likely to be made from lower-quality meerschaum. I'd think that if a carver's going to take the time to carve a nice pipe, they'd use high-quality block meerschaum. What's the deal here? Is block meer just that expensive?

To be safe, my first meers will come either from a tobacconist, or online from Altinok or Peterson... probably Peterson, since I can get a black-colored silver spigot meer for around $100. Nothing too fancy, but Peterson is a trusted name in this business, and I really like some of their pipes.


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## dmkerr (Oct 27, 2008)

J. R. Henderson said:


> Is block meer just that expensive


Yes. And supplies are getting low. And the diggers have to go further into the earth, which elevates the danger level. And finally, what to do with all that meerschaum dust? Toss it? haha - not these days! press it and glue it and make a cheap pipe out of it, my friend!!!! :biggrin1:

Your tobacconist is a good bet. Also, www.bestmeerschaums.homestead.com (Deniz Ural, for Baki pipes and his master carver collection), Altinok, or www.smokingpipes.com for IMP's. In another thread, a poster bought an IMP over Ebay and isn't sure if the seller will take care of his cracked pipe. smokingpipes will do so. Nice guarantee. Also, poster IKMeerschaum sells some quality pipes. They can be had. The bad news is a crappy briar will outsmoke a crappy meerschaum, and crappy meers are all over Ebay. Know your seller, as CWL stated. VERY important.


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## J. R. Henderson (Oct 30, 2010)

Makes sense. Supplies of non-renewable resources decrease as the years go by, and meerschaum is more rarefied than many materials. They need to quit making jewelry out of the stuff, dang it!

I'm definitely going to ensure I buy only quality meers, and will be staying away from eBay entirely when shopping for them. Thanks for linking me to the Deniz Ural site. I've browsed the other brands you mentioned, but hadn't seen Baki pipes before.

Having done a bit more research, it seems that Peterson meers are made from African meerschaum, which is supposed to be inferior. Any idea why? Regardless, I'm going to ensure I get a true block meer from a reputable carver/retailer, even if it means paying $200-300 for a design I like.


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## drastic_quench (Sep 12, 2008)

Peterson meers will have Peterson drilling and draws, so they're already leaning towards inferior, and when you factor in their outrageous asking price: bunk! Now if Savinelli made meers...


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## dmkerr (Oct 27, 2008)

J. R. Henderson said:


> Makes sense. Supplies of non-renewable resources decrease as the years go by, and meerschaum is more rarefied than many materials. They need to quit making jewelry out of the stuff, dang it!
> 
> I'm definitely going to ensure I buy only quality meers, and will be staying away from eBay entirely when shopping for them. Thanks for linking me to the Deniz Ural site. I've browsed the other brands you mentioned, but hadn't seen Baki pipes before.
> 
> Having done a bit more research, it seems that Peterson meers are made from African meerschaum, which is supposed to be inferior. Any idea why? Regardless, I'm going to ensure I get a true block meer from a reputable carver/retailer, even if it means paying $200-300 for a design I like.


lol - yeah, and no more cane handles! Sheesh! The meer will soak up the sweat and oils from your palm and turn the nice white virgin meer into a grayish ugly mess!

Deniz will have about 80 more pipes listed on his site this month. Hang on a bit before you buy so you have more to choose from. And a lot of them will be less than $200.

African meer isn't "inferior" per se. It's just different. It's harder and heavier and it doesn't color. It smokes very well. Pete african meers are highly regarded. You just won't get the darker patina as you smoke it but that should be a secondary concern, anyway. I smoke meers 98% of the time simply because I prefer the clarity of the smoke.


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## Walter MItty (Sep 27, 2009)

You mention staining a Meer by handling it. Do you smoke it wearing a cotton glove or how do you best treat a Meer to allow for the perfect coloration without damiging it's character. I don't smoke Meers as yet, but I have just acquired a good one for my brother's Xmas gift. I want to make sure that I know how it is best handled. I suspect that he knows but if not I want to be of help. And I am just curious. 

Rob


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## dmkerr (Oct 27, 2008)

Walter MItty said:


> You mention staining a Meer by handling it. Do you smoke it wearing a cotton glove or how do you best treat a Meer to allow for the perfect coloration without damiging it's character. I don't smoke Meers as yet, but I have just acquired a good one for my brother's Xmas gift. I want to make sure that I know how it is best handled. I suspect that he knows but if not I want to be of help. And I am just curious.
> 
> Rob


I'm a clencher and I don't touch the stone at all. I handle it by the stem. That said, I would be consider very anal. Some folks don't touch the meer for the first 20 smokes to make sure the beeswax penetrates the meer. If I were giving advice, I'd say don't touch the block at all unless you rewax it regularly... which is pretty simple to do. Or just make sure your hands are clean. But the meer's best quality is the smoke which isn't affected by touching the bowl.


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## J. R. Henderson (Oct 30, 2010)

dmkerr said:


> African meer isn't "inferior" per se. It's just different. It's harder and heavier and it doesn't color. It smokes very well. Pete african meers are highly regarded. You just won't get the darker patina as you smoke it but that should be a secondary concern, anyway. I smoke meers 98% of the time simply because I prefer the clarity of the smoke.


That's good to hear. Yeah, I'd read that it's harder and heavier, doesn't color, et cetera - but my main concern is quality of construction, and I'm the sort who'd rather have a pre-colored meer, anyway. Perhaps I'll start off with a Peterson meer. The main reason I want one right now is as something to fall back on if I sour a briar and need to sweeten it, or just want to have bunch of smokes without worrying about stressing out a briar. That and the smoke clarity thing. Once my collection gets larger (just one briar currently), taking it easy on briars will be less of a concern.


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## dmkerr (Oct 27, 2008)

J. R. Henderson said:


> That's good to hear. Yeah, I'd read that it's harder and heavier, doesn't color, et cetera - but my main concern is quality of construction, and I'm the sort who'd rather have a pre-colored meer, anyway. Perhaps I'll start off with a Peterson meer. The main reason I want one right now is as something to fall back on if I sour a briar and need to sweeten it, or just want to have bunch of smokes without worrying about stressing out a briar. That and the smoke clarity thing. Once my collection gets larger (just one briar currently), taking it easy on briars will be less of a concern.


Sounds like a plan. If the meer goes sour, just swab out the inside of the shank and stem with Everclear or any high octane liquor. Good as new.


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## Jojah17 (Mar 30, 2010)

I agree with everyone's sentiments with sticking with quality meerschaum carvers/suppliers as I have been through a couple of very dumpy off-brand meers. Weak draws and poor drilling make for a shit pipe experience.

I feel the need to chime in here as I experienced something similiar (as I feel a number of new pipe smokers do when they first start out). I was convinced when I first took up the pipe almost a year ago that I needed a meer to truly enjoy the experience. I struggled with the tobacco and I struggled with my briar and I never really hit the point where I was really enjoying myself. However, when I smoked my friends quality meer I experienced a whole new level of taste and aroma that I couldn't achieve with the briar....*yet.* However, instead of switching- I stuck with the Briar- I practiced packing, patience, and slowing down to really enjoy the smoke. I learned when to tamp and when to set the damn thing down and let it take a breather. Eventually, I reached the point that smoking a briar was just as enjoyable as smoking that nice meer.

Meers to me are a very forgiving pipe- they can be puffed hard, fast, and often -and will give you a very consistent smoke. Briars on the other hand can be a bitch to deal with but with time and patience they can smoke just as well as any meer.

There are advantages to both materials and in my mind one is not superior to the other- merely different choices for different people- hell I would say the majority of smokers enjoy both. That offer from DMKERR is exceedingly generous and im sure you will enjoy your new IMP if you take him up on it. That being said, don't forget about that lonely briar sitting on your shelf when you are lighting up that meer- there's plenty of room in the pipe cabinet for both.


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## DeeSkank (May 26, 2010)

Jojah17 said:


> I agree with everyone's sentiments with sticking with quality meerschaum carvers/suppliers as I have been through a couple of very dumpy off-brand meers. Weak draws and poor drilling make for a shit pipe experience.
> 
> That being said, I was convinced when I first took up the pipe almost a year ago that I needed a meer to truly enjoy the experience. I struggled with the tobacco and I struggled with my briar and I never really hit the point where I was really enjoying myself. However, when I smoked my friends quality meer I experienced a whole new level of taste and aroma that I couldn't achieve with the briar....*yet.* However, instead of switching- I stuck with the Briar- I practiced packing, patience, and slowing down to really enjoy the smoke. I learned when to tamp and when to set the damn thing down and let it take a breather. Eventually, I reached the point that smoking a briar was just as enjoyable as smoking that nice meer.
> 
> ...


Very, very well said! I'm excited to try out the IMP, but I haven't given up on briars just yet. I just had one of those "click" moments a while ago, I'm not sure if it was the new tobacco or if I was smoking slower, but the experience was just better. It was some GLP Westminster in a MM gentleman. It smelled EXACTLY like a campfire would. Yummm! I could pick out a few nuances, which I've only been able to do with cigars so far.

The last couple of bowls I had before this almost tasted a little bitter, not tounge bite though. I'm going to have to revisit them soon and see if it was my technique or if I just didn't care for the tobacco.


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## MarkC (Jul 4, 2009)

Walter MItty said:


> You mention staining a Meer by handling it. Do you smoke it wearing a cotton glove or how do you best treat a Meer to allow for the perfect coloration without damiging it's character. I don't smoke Meers as yet, but I have just acquired a good one for my brother's Xmas gift. I want to make sure that I know how it is best handled. I suspect that he knows but if not I want to be of help. And I am just curious.
> 
> Rob


I handle mine like a normal pipe and have had no problems. I am careful to wash my hands thoroughly with plenty of soap before handling the pipe, however.


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## dmkerr (Oct 27, 2008)

Jojah17 said:


> There are advantages to both materials and in my mind one is not superior to the other- merely different choices for different people-


Of course I would say that one IS superior to the other but that's a personal sentiment rather than an absolute one. But one advantage briar has is the cake in a dedicated pipe. The cake actually exudes some flavor during each bowl. If that flavor is sympathetic to the tobacco being smoked - or even the very same if the pipe is dedicated to one blend - it can actually add to the experience. People don't typically build cake in meers so the taste of the smoke is more "naked", if you will. Even so, a meer will "ghost" flavors, and I do dedicate meers but only to tobacco styles rather than specific blends. Anything with latakia can only go in certain pipes in my collection and anything aromatic goes into my one meer dedicated to aros. The rest of my meers can smoke anything... straight VA's, VaPers, Burleys, BurPers, VaBurPers, etc.


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## DeeSkank (May 26, 2010)

So the IMP from dmkerr arrived today! He also sent along a generous sampling of some tobaccos! This guy is an A+ BOTL!

List of the tobaccos that he sent along..

Rattrays 3 Noggins
Reiners Long Golden Flake
Cornell & Diehl Oriental Silk
Cornell & Diehl Kelly's Coin
GL Pease Barbary Coast.

And wow, she is a beauty and a sweeeeet smoker! I loaded her up with some of the Long Golden Flake shortly after she arrived and it was deeelicious!

I just wanted to show off a little bit


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## SmoknTaz (Jun 18, 2008)

DeeSkank said:


> So the IMP from dmkerr arrived today! He also sent along a generous sampling of some tobaccos! This guy is an A+ BOTL!
> 
> And wow, she is a beauty and a sweeeeet smoker! I loaded her up with some of the Long Golden Flake shortly after she arrived and it was deeelicious!
> 
> I just wanted to show off a little bit


That's awesome! wtg dmkerr :tu


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## JustOneMoreStick (Sep 21, 2009)

Nice pipe


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## dmkerr (Oct 27, 2008)

I decided not to clean the rim too much but it can be done if you want to, Dylan. Wrap the pipe in a hand towel tightly, exposing only the rim. Put some Everclear on a Q-tip and swab gently. That dark stuff on the rim will come off. It won't go back to white but it'll lighten considerably. I didn't clean it because some people like it on there (me! - lol). 

Glad you're enjoying the pipe!


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## tobacmon (May 17, 2007)

Very nice of you dmkerr--looks like a pipe he'll have for a lifetime. I like the look and shape of this smoker and looked to pick one up in the future. My understanding is it should be used for a primary baccy and not to throw several blends threw it, Is this true?

Always looking !


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## dmkerr (Oct 27, 2008)

tobacmon said:


> Very nice of you dmkerr--looks like a pipe he'll have for a lifetime. I like the look and shape of this smoker and looked to pick one up in the future. My understanding is it should be used for a primary baccy and not to throw several blends threw it, Is this true?
> 
> Always looking !


Not true. Meers will ghost a bit but not terribly, especially if they get an Everclear bath. After each smoke, I run a pipecleaner dipped in Everclear from the bit opening through to the shank. Of course, latakia blends and aromatics probably should have their own pipe but you don't have to be blend specific. Because there is no need for cake in a meer, the pipe won't retain the flavor of a specific tobacco. In fact, it's the clarity of the smoke that I find so rewarding in meers. I can smoke a straight burley and a vaper back to back in the same pipe with no cross-flavors.

Off topic, but for removing stem from shank - the better meers have a delrin push-type tenon and should always be removed AND reinserted clockwise or you run the risk of stripping it and having a loose stem eventually. The old bone screw-types will of course dictate how you remove and reinsert but the newer ones won't enjoy a counterclockwise turn as a briar does.


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## tobacmon (May 17, 2007)

Great to know and have some everclear that will take care of any ghosting I'm sure---Thanks Mike!


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## dmkerr (Oct 27, 2008)

tobacmon said:


> Great to know and have some everclear that will take care of any ghosting I'm sure---Thanks Mike!


Just don't drink it! :biggrin:


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## Contrabass Bry (May 3, 2010)

dmkerr said:


> I decided not to clean the rim too much but it can be done if you want to, Dylan. Wrap the pipe in a hand towel tightly, exposing only the rim. Put some Everclear on a Q-tip and swab gently. That dark stuff on the rim will come off. It won't go back to white but it'll lighten considerably. I didn't clean it because some people like it on there (me! - lol).
> 
> Glad you're enjoying the pipe!


I would leave it as well, for protection purposes. You can char meer and it would be a shame to do so.

Plus it can act as another coloring "point of contact"!

I'm sure that pipe will give you many years of smoking enjoyment! Kudos to Derrick!!


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## lbiislander (Oct 15, 2010)

dmkerr said:


> The old bone screw-types will of course dictate how you remove and reinsert but the newer ones won't enjoy a counterclockwise turn as a briar does.


I was taught to always remove the bit of my new briar by turning clockwise and insert it with the same clockwise rotation.:hmm:


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## dmkerr (Oct 27, 2008)

lbiislander said:


> I was taught to always remove the bit of my new briar by turning clockwise and insert it with the same clockwise rotation.:hmm:


I was not taught that but, upon reflection, that's probably a good idea. Best to go one direction, both on and off. Thanks for the info.


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## tobacmon (May 17, 2007)

dmkerr said:


> *Just don't drink it!* :biggrin:


LOL---*tell me about it!*:dude:


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## Mad Hatter (Apr 8, 2007)

I'm extremely partial to my African meers


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