# pipesandcigars.com Rant



## MiamiMikePA (May 16, 2012)

Ok, so here is my rant for today. I'm probably overreacting, but I'm annoyed so it is what it is. I've been wanting to order a tin of Samuel Gawith Squadron Leader & Grousemoor for a while, but it seems as though online retailers have either one or the other in stock, not both. Last Wednesday I was looking around on pipesandcigars.com and noticed they had both, so I decided to place my first online pipe tobacco order. Seeing as how they had free shipping if you bought $100 worth of stuff I figured why not. So after adding on more tobacco, a senior reamer, and pipe cleaners to get to the $100 I placed my order. I went to their site today to check the status, but nothing was available. I sent them an email to see what the deal was. I just received a response saying here is an email we sent you the same day please respond. Here it turns out because the shipping address I used was different from the billing address they would not complete the order. They are telling me this is an AMEX rule. I believe them, but honestly I do this all the time and have never heard this "rule" before, but not saying it isn't as I honestly don't know. Guess AMEX carriers aren't gift givers if this actually is the case, lol.

As annoying as all of this is to me what really annoys me is the fact that after they received no response from me they didn't have the courtesy to make a call to the phone number provided in the order. As a business don't you think that would be a good customer service practice? Call me old school, but letting an order just sit, that a customer obviously wants, seems like bad business practice to me...but what do I know?

End of the day no big deal, but it does annoy me how some of these online dealers do business. The email sent to me just seemed so coy it irked me. Needless to say I told them to go ahead and cancel my order. Really just not into dealing with people like that so I guess I'll just wait till another vendor has both in stock, no biggie. Like I said I'm probably overreacting and cutting off my nose despite my face, but I really don't care. I know a lot of people love this vendor, they probably are a great vendor, but I will never know!

-Mike


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## DrRus (Jun 5, 2012)

Oh, I can rant about pipesandcigars all day long, but in your case your rant is aimed at the wrong company.

1. It's not the merchant's fault but AMEX. AMEX is one of the worst companies when it comes to real customer experience, yours is just yet another example. Close your Amex and you won't have this problem again 

2. You didn't order by phone, so why would you expect them to call you? Also:


> I sent them an email to see what the deal was.


Why didn't you call them? :blabla:

They are not a corporation with a separate CS department, I suspect their online business is just guy in front of a computer in the back office of the smoke shop  
And yes, you are old fashioned, I can't remember the last time I had a company call me instead of sending me an email.

If you think this little mishap was a bad experience - consider yourself blessed.


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## pffintuff (Apr 20, 2011)

I don't deal with them anymore, after they sent me the wrong pipe.

I have a one strike rule with websites, that's it.


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## MiamiMikePA (May 16, 2012)

I have to disagree with you about the AMEX as i absolutly love it. I use it for EVERYTHING, sending gifts included, and have never had a single issue with it. IMO their customer service is 2nd to none!

As far as expecting a phone call to straighten it out I only said that after they got a none response from me. If they didn't respond to my email I would have called them. Why require me to put my phone number on the order if they don't intend to use it when there is an issue? Just as a past example of why they should have made a phone call... I ordered a pair of custom golf shoes a few months ago from an online retailer. I had a gift card and split the payment between it and a cc. For whatever reason the guy keying the order didn't enter the info correctly. They sent me an email, I didn't respond within 24 hours and they called me to straighten the issue out.


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## Oldmso54 (Jul 31, 2010)

My experience with P&C has been good. I also was sent the wrong pipe but they immediately shipped out the correct one and sent a shipping label to send the wrong one back with = so no cost to me. I've changed orders after placing them; shipped stuff as gifts and asked that the receipt not go with the gift (which they've gotten right every time / more than I can say for other online retailers). I've always had good email communications and good phone conversations. They've always been flexible with me. Maybe I've just been lucky but I have nothing bad to say about P&C, their customer service, their site or their products.


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## Xodar (Mar 4, 2011)

Credit card companies whack the retailer at POS for a fee, generally a percentage with a minimum charge. Adding steps to your card services to minimize fraud, such as matching billing addresses and/or zip codes can get you a lower rate, which in turn lets you keep your prices low.
DrRus also has a point, in that this isn't a mega corporation. Russ Oulette, their master blender and the guy with his face on the catalogue, answers the phone sometimes. The high mucky muck of their pipe tobacco brand answers the business phone. Combine that with the large online business they do and I am not entirely surprised they don't follow up digital orders with phone calls all the time. I have had them call me on a couple of occasions about out-of-stock items on my order, and they were pleasant and helpful. They are clearly one of the biggest retailers of pipe tobacco on the internet, and it would be a shame to all parties if a credit card snafu kept you from doing business with them. You might try sending an email explaining your situation (or call if you prefer) and see if they offer to help, a lot of people have had good CS experiences with them in the past.


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## MiamiMikePA (May 16, 2012)

Sounds like there is quite a split in how people on here feel about these guys. Honestly I didn't expect that! I figured I'd be getting bashed, but apparently these guys have had some issues. I would like to say I don't think these guys are a bad company, simply sharing my isolate experience.


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## hardcz (Aug 1, 2007)

Sucks you had a bad experience though you are flying off the deep end IMO.


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## Michigan_Moose (Oct 11, 2011)

Never had a issue with P&C ever


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## DrRus (Jun 5, 2012)

MiamiMikePA said:


> Sounds like there is quite a split in how people on here feel about these guys. Honestly I didn't expect that! I figured I'd be getting bashed, but apparently these guys have had some issues. I would like to say I don't think these guys are a bad company, simply sharing my isolate experience.


Not really a split, we all had mishaps with PC and other merchants, it's the nature of the beast.

My biggest beef with them is really not that big of a deal to most - I just hate how their stated online availability does not match the actual inventory. So I end up receiving partial orders or have to cancel orders because they don't actually have the stuff in stock.
It was annoying enough to me to make the switch to Mars, yet I don't hesitate to use PC as a backup if Mars doesn't have something in stock but PC does.

As far as the rest of the popular online retailers - they just can't match the amount of tobacco PC and Mars carry.


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## MiamiMikePA (May 16, 2012)

I'd hardly say I've gone flying off the deep end, but I guess everybody is welcome to their opinion. In my estimation that may be a "slight" exaggeration. lol


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## mcgreggor57 (Nov 3, 2011)

Great experience with them here. I can't speak for the Amex issue but I believe Famous requires _all_ initial orders be shipped to the billing address. After that, you can have it shipped anywhere.

Now if only they would offer free shipping codes rather than $100 minimums


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## ChronoB (Nov 4, 2007)

There's no online retailer with a perfect reputation. I've had great luck with P&C.com over the years, and the the couple times there was a issue with an order the customer service was great. But past experiences by no means guarantee I won't have a terrible experience with them someday. I recommend giving them a second chance, but the choice is yours, of course.


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## hardcz (Aug 1, 2007)

OK, well I didn't quite mean that you went raging, throwing stuff through walls Hulk style, just that there obviously were other ways that you could of handled that, and by swearing off the vendor because of one issue to me is a little over board. Unless you're the type to do that for everything, I mean everyone makes mistakes, and if you were at a B&M and they forgot to put something in your bag, then found out shortly after, they'd probably say sorry and whatever, but the stuff is in your hands ,where this case you'll have to wait around a few days to get it... or who knows now how long since you cancelled.

Personally I like my card through my credit union, customer service puts AMEX to shame :ranger:


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## TonyBrooklyn (Jan 28, 2010)

I use smoking pipes personally better prices great service. But them again i am manly a cigar smoker so what do i know aside from the occasional order.


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## pipinho (Aug 27, 2011)

I never had problems with p and c.


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## CCW13 (Jun 10, 2012)

I hope I have a good experience. I just placed my first online order with P&C. Looking forward to getting my pipe and free bobblehead lol


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## drastic_quench (Sep 12, 2008)

Just an FYI for those of you who receive unordered merchandise, you can legally keep it. If it is an honest shipping error, ordered pipe A, they sent pipe B:

Q. What should I do if the unordered merchandise I received was the result of an honest shipping error?

A. Write the seller and offer to return the merchandise, provided the seller pays for postage and handling. Give the seller a specific and reasonable amount of time (say 30 days) to pick up the merchandise or arrange to have it returned at no expense to you. Tell the seller that you reserve the right to keep the merchandise or dispose of it after the specified time has passed.

Unordered Merchandise


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## BrewShooter (Mar 17, 2011)

Do you have a good local B&M? I ask becacuse I worry you are going to run out of online vendors pretty quickly. :wink:


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## x6ftundx (Jul 31, 2008)

yeah I have to say that P&C has to be one of my top retailers out there on the web. I purchase lots of stuff and have never had an issue. They even sometimes put a little extra in the box. Too bad but I think you should give them another chance.


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## 36Bones (Aug 18, 2011)

I'm sorry you had a bad experience. In two years of doing business with P&C, I've only had one problem. I called them and they corrected it while I was on the phone. Since then, they've been outstanding. No retailer is perfect. I order from three different vendors and I can count one hand, the trouble I've had from ordering online. AMEX on the other hand is the devil. I won't even go in to how many times, I had trouble with AMEX on business trips. I hope you have great luck on your next transaction.


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## szyzk (Nov 27, 2010)

As someone who works at a B&M/online retailer I have no reason to purchase from other companies, but P&C has pretty much been my only online pipe retailer for going on the past 18 or so months. P&C are good people - no, _great_ people - and they work hard to fix their mistakes and to keep your business.

No retailer is perfect, and although we all strive for 100% positive customer experiences this whole industry is left up to bleedover from human error. It's unfortunate that bad transactions do happen, but most retailers - given the opportunity - will fix the problem without hesitation. In my experience as a customer and a retailer, a simple phone call is usually all that's needed. Yeah, the customer shouldn't have to take the initiative but sometimes - for a variety of different reasons - that's what it takes to ensure you walk away happy.


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## mikebjrtx (May 21, 2012)

I have had two issues:

1 They sent only 1 instead of 10 of an item, but I talked to Josh and he immediately verified the shipping mistake and even offered to send the rest expedited freight.

2 I bought an IMCO G 55 R Pipe Lighter (a real piece of s*** even posted a review of it here) I haven’t contacted them about it yet but expect they will let me send it back for a refund. This thing is so horrible I don’t want a replacement.

They have been super nice and easy to deal with on the phone. I understand if someone makes a mistake even on a first order. The deal killer for me is when it’s a pattern or the problem isn’t cheerfully fixed. The lighter was a manufacturers problem but I will get back and let you know how it turns out.


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## Machurtado (Nov 11, 2009)

I too have had nothing but good experiances with P&C. Like others have said if you have a one and done policy then you may run out of retailers pretty soon.


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## Hermit (Aug 5, 2008)

Among my *many *orders, they have made a few mistakes.
Every time they do, it takes one email and they fix it quickly 
and I usually end up with some free tobacco. 
Their customer service is one of the best. :tu


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## MiamiMikePA (May 16, 2012)

Well after a good amount of posts from you guys it seems as though they do pretty well by most of you, so maybe I'll give them another shot. No I don't just disregard all business if things don't go perfectly, but you know what they say about first impressions! I do have amazing B&Ms around me, but none in the immediate area that are great for pipe tobacco. I'm under and hour from both CI and Famous, but again not great for pipe stuff. Boswell is about 2 1/2-3 hrs away and Mars is about an hour, although Mars doesn't have a store front anymore.


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## hardcz (Aug 1, 2007)

Awesome to hear Mike, I'm sure you'll be happy.


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## MarkC (Jul 4, 2009)

Okay, let me get this straight: you are upset that they didn't contact you to find out why you didn't contact them?


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## DSturg369 (Apr 6, 2008)

MarkC said:


> Okay, let me get this straight: you are upset that they didn't contact you to find out why you didn't contact them?


:twitch: :lol:


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## Mante (Dec 25, 2009)

Through seven orders with Pipes & Cigars I have never had anything but service beyond the call of duty & I'm half a planet away. Even if I did have a minor issue (like your's) I would not be ranting on a forum about it, I'd be talking to them directly. The only rant I've ever justified starting involved a $3000 cigar order & that company has since lost an awful lot of credibility (re business) on numerous forums.



> I'm probably overreacting


 You said all that was needed right there.


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## houncer (Dec 15, 2011)

Nothing but good experiences for me and Pipes & Cigars. I once ordered a small pouch of Carter Hall and they sent me a giant tub. I pointed out the error and they told me to just keep the tub.


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## Trout Langston (Dec 1, 2011)

I'm a little biased because P&C is a customer of ours, but yours is the first negative comment I remember seeing about P&C on this or any other forum. I'm pretty sure they have someone who also participates on puff.com, and I'd be shocked if you didn't get a PM in the next day or so from them.


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## MiamiMikePA (May 16, 2012)

I would like to add to this that P&C did reach out to me today. They apologized for the inconvienence and let me know that they do in fact call, but I emailed them a day before they do that. Guess I'm not crazy for thinking that a company should do this! Anyway, guess I jumped the gun a bit and I think I will give them another order and see how it goes.


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## OperationLongLeash (Aug 31, 2011)

Mike - I'm Travis from P&C, and I wanted to chime in here as well. First of all, I'm glad that when we got a hold of you today we were able to explain how we do things and get on the same page with you. Secondly, I really apologize for the hassle, it's AMEX's rule and we have to follow it, and it is a pretty huge PITA. I'm sure when you think of it from our side you can see that it'd be a lot better from a business perspective to just ship the order, get paid, and move along to the next one than to cause a bunch of unnecessary hoops for our staff and our customers to jump through that cost us extra labor and risk of losing sales/customers like you. It's the nature of doing business online, and we're just doing our best with the restrictions imposed on us. Same thing with taxes, international shipping, and anywhere else in our business someone wants to stick their nose in and make our jobs a little tougher than they should be. The good news in this case is it's a one-and-done PITA, once we've got a successful order we can ship anywhere you'd like with no problems. Thanks for coming back here and letting everyone know we resolved the issue, and for being understanding of our situation and giving us another shot! I look forward to proving to you what a great company we are and I appreciate you giving us the chance to do so.

Also thanks to everyone here who had nice things to say about us. Like many in this thread stated, nobody's perfect, certainly not us, but in the rare case where we have a snafu we do out best to make it right and then some. We've been tracking our error rate for some time now, and I'm glad to say it's currently at it's lowest point since I've been here at just under 0.75%. We ship lots of orders so mistakes will happen, but if one happens to you just let us know and we'll make it right as quickly and efficiently as possible. 

Thanks for the kind word Leonard, was great meeting you in Chicago and congrats again on your People's Choice award!


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## indigosmoke (Sep 1, 2009)

Mike, I just came across this thread and I'm glad to see things are being resolved. I'm originally from Albany and I fell in love with pipe smoking while walking by P&C's old shop in the mall. Yes, I'm old enough to have been in high school when you could still fire up your pipe in a pipe store in a shopping mall in NYS and let the wonderful scent waft out into the corridor for every person who entered the mall to enjoy! Needless to say, although they have grown into quite an online concern (by pipe smoking standards) they have the roots and the heart of your hometown B&M. Give them another chance and I'm sure they'll do right by you.

As for the quality of online inventory accuracy in the pipe smoking business...well...let's just say all of the vendors have had their issues. One thing I'll say for both Smoking Pipes and P&C is they have both tried to address the issues over the past few years and have greatly improved the accuracy of their websites. There are some others who shall remain nameless who haven't and I suspect never will and if you want something from them you had better call when you order or disappointment is likely to result. P&C and Smoking Pipes also both have representatives who post here, which I think helps things get resolved.

Anyway, I'll close with this for those of you who maybe haven't seen it yet. Unfortunately, it still applies in all too many cases out there, but p&c and smokingpipes get kudos from me for at least trying to improve things.


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## Xodar (Mar 4, 2011)

I laugh harder every time I see that video John!
99.9% of the time, if someone starts a rant about a retailer online the negative voices pour in, because we tend to take good shopping experiences as expected and the bad ones stick in our memory. It probably speaks volumes about the character of the business when satisfied customers on a completely independent board try to calm down an angry customer. It speaks even more when that businesses associates and employees care enough to address it personally. Little things like this ensure P & C will continue getting a healthy chunk of my cellar dollars.


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## Derrick_Y (Apr 26, 2012)

the only issue I have with P&C is the shipping to Canada. They charge twice what anyone else does as they will only ship Priority First Class or some higher level. But I just received my first P&C order by having it shipped to a fellow puff member and then redirecting to me. Took advantage fo the free 100.00 shipping so no complaints other than it delayed me getting my goods by a week.

As for the AMEX shipping issue, as WEB developer who has created and manages a few eCommerce sites this is common. It is one of the reason I use pay pal exclusively for online transactions. it allows me to set multiple shipping addresses easily and without issue regardless of the address on my credit card or bank account. The lack of a pay Pal option is what has stopped me from buying from smoking pipes.



OperationLongLeash said:


> Mike - I'm Travis from P&C,
> 
> We ship lots of orders so mistakes will happen, but if one happens to you just let us know and we'll make it right as quickly and efficiently as possible.


The best way to evaluate a business is not my the mistakes they make but on what they do to correct said mistake. The fact that P&C are even tracking this statistic shows me they care.


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