# Is 72 degrees too warm for long-term storage?



## romwarrior (Jan 16, 2008)

I am trying to avoid purchasing a vinotemp and subsequently being committed by my wife. I have several boxes of CC and NC's that I will being working through over the next several years. Yesterday it was about 100 degrees outside and with the A/C on, my cooler never got above 72 degrees. So I figure that's about as hot as it will get in my cooler since we tend to turn on the a/c during hot days.

So is 72 degrees ok for periods of time for long-term storage? Of course it won't always be that hot but it could last for several days at a time. I would LOVE to get a Vinotemp but I'm not sure if I want to go through torture my wife would put me through if I got one.

Any input is appreciated!


----------



## pnoon (Jun 8, 2005)

72 degrees, while not optimal, is just fine for the high point. Even for days at a time.
:2


----------



## KnuckleDragger (Apr 18, 2008)

I'm finding myself in the same predicament as I live in the Phoenix metro area and keep my house warmer than most to save on energy costs. My :2... 1c = easier to ask for forgiveness than for permission , 2c = ask her to imagine the torture she would put you through if beatles ate through all of those cigars and you had to replace them all. Better safe than sorry. ~KD


----------



## gnukfu (Dec 19, 2007)

I believe 75 degrees is the max temp. Just tell your wife that you have umpteen bazillion dollars invested in your cigars and so what's a couple of hundred bucks to ensure they don't go poof....of course you may not want to let her know how much you have invested....


----------



## DennisP (May 13, 2007)

The only thing I've ever read regarding temps is the ability for beetles to hatch. If that is a worry freeze.

I'm curious if there is anything regarding storage temps affects on the cigars.


----------



## romwarrior (Jan 16, 2008)

Thanks for all the quick responses. Yeah, that is the main reason I am trying to avoid the vinotemp. I would easily be able to justify it by telling her how much these cigars are worth but then I would have a whole other battle. We'll see, I'm really afraid of beetles.

Since we're talking long-term storage here, I'll ask another question instead of cluttering up the forum:

What the best method for long-term storage of singles? I have a ton of singles I've received through trades and PIF's and such. Right now I have most of them stored in the five finger bags, but are those ok for long-term? Is it better to store in boxes with lids? Trays?

Thanks for all your help!


----------



## hotreds (Dec 4, 2007)

pnoon said:


> 72 degrees, while not optimal, is just fine for the high point. Even for days at a time.
> :2


:tpd: Just don't let it venture too far above that!!(Or you might have some friends join your collection!)

Storing in five finger bags isn't a problem, either. Just avoid joining any flavored cigars with non-flavored! What exactly do you mean by "long term storage?"


----------



## chenvt (Apr 12, 2008)

romwarrior said:


> Thanks for all the quick responses. Yeah, that is the main reason I am trying to avoid the vinotemp. I would easily be able to justify it by telling her how much these cigars are worth but then I would have a whole other battle. We'll see, I'm really afraid of beetles.
> 
> Since we're talking long-term storage here, I'll ask another question instead of cluttering up the forum:
> 
> ...


Boxes are better than trays, since the vinotemp humi can fluctuate, but keeping them in a box with a lid helps maintain steady humidity


----------



## romwarrior (Jan 16, 2008)

hotreds said:


> Just avoid joining any flavored cigars with non-flavored! What exactly do you mean by "long term storage?"


No flavored stuff here. And by long-term I guess I mean up to 2-3 years (at least for the singles in bags). For the full boxes I have they will probably last longer.


----------



## kyee (Sep 16, 2005)

72 is too high for my comfort. I wouldn't want my cigars to be anywhere above the 65 degree range for any extended amount of time. If you only have a few boxes, then the ROI might not be worth your while. However, if you've got a large amount of $$$ in many boxes, then I definitely believe it's a worthwhile purchase to protect those valuable cigars.


----------



## Corona Gigante-cl (Sep 8, 2005)

There's no hard and fast rule that I'm aware of, but if you're planning on aging them 5+ years, I think you'd be better off biting the bullet and buying the vinotemp. It will cost you about the same as a box of cigars and you'll reap the benefits for years to come.

As I understand it, the aim of long term aging is to slow down the fermentation of the tobacco by lowering the temperature and reducing the oxygen exchange. 72% is way to warm for aging, IMHO. I would shoot for 60/60. Just my $0.02.


----------



## Addiction (May 8, 2007)

romwarrior said:


> I am trying to avoid purchasing a vinotemp and subsequently being committed by my wife. I have several boxes of CC and NC's that I will being working through over the next several years. Yesterday it was about 100 degrees outside and with the A/C on, my cooler never got above 72 degrees. So I figure that's about as hot as it will get in my cooler since we tend to turn on the a/c during hot days.
> 
> So is 72 degrees ok for periods of time for long-term storage? Of course it won't always be that hot but it could last for several days at a time. I would LOVE to get a Vinotemp but I'm not sure if I want to go through torture my wife would put me through if I got one.
> 
> Any input is appreciated!


If the issue is an aggravation issue and not a money issue, then save yourself the sweating it (yes pun intended) and get the Vinotemp. A little hunting around and you can pick up a reasonably sized one for less than $200 most likely.


----------



## Addiction (May 8, 2007)

Corona Gigante said:


> There's no hard and fast rule that I'm aware of, but if you're planning on aging them 5+ years, I think you'd be better off biting the bullet and buying the vinotemp. It will cost you about the same as a box of cigars and you'll reap the benefits for years to come.
> 
> As I understand it, the aim of long term aging is to slow down the fermentation of the tobacco by lowering the temperature and reducing the oxygen exchange. 72% is way to warm for aging, IMHO.* I would shoot for 60/60.* Just my $0.02.


I mean no offense by asking for clarification but I'm curious, how many people have their aging space set up differently than their everyday use space?


----------



## shilala (Feb 1, 2008)

Hey Rom,
Here's an idea that might help...
When I condition my beads I use a big cooler. The fans I use generate some heat, but the HCM beads themselves release a lot of heat. The cooler gets hot. Way over 80 degrees.
In order for me to get the beads to a fine-tuned 65%, I need the right temperature, 70 degrees. To bring the temp down, I use a large bowl of ice with two monster Papst fans laid over it blowing on the ice.
It works wonders and I can fine tune the temp by adding just a couple cubes at a time after I've used a lot to bring the temp down.

That got me thinking about whether you could use ice to your advantage.
I just thought this thing up, pics first...









The two dishes are Wally rubbermaid, 4" square x 2" high.
The sponge is one of those little scrubber back sponges, I tore off the scrubber and cut the sponge with scissors to fit neatly in the bottom of the bowl.

Here's what's gonna happen here...
The melting ice will cool the cooler. The problem is that a very good amount water vapor will condense on the outside of the ice bowl. 
I addressed the drip problem with the bottom catch bowl.
The sponge is for three things...
1.) It will gather the drip water and tie it up, making it ready for later.
2.) It creates an airspace that should effectively create an insulating layer between your cigars and the condensate from the ice bowl. It regulates the air gap between bowl one and bowl two so that the bowl's sides never touch, insuring that no water drips down the outside bowl.
3.) It collects the water so you can put it back in your humi environment safely, without pouring it on your beads and cracking them up.

The reason we want to catch the condensate is that this ice melting process is going to pull a LOT of water out of your beads. If you don't catch it, you'll have to add it later. I don't want to screw up your beads or the fine balance of humidity in your humi.
So when things cool down, just lift out the top bowl and leave the sponge and the other bowl in there. Use the sponge to dry the outside of the ice bowl.
The water in the sponge will be any water that the beads have lost, so you gained nothing, lost nothing, and changed nothing once the sponge has dried.
Hope this helps!!!
Scott


----------



## basso4735 (Feb 17, 2008)

Great idea..might have to use this in my cooler....


----------



## romwarrior (Jan 16, 2008)

Leave it to shilala to come up with a great DIY solution. Scott, you are amazing. However, I work all day and have a 1-year old, so I really need something that is a set-and-forget solution. You guys have convinced me enough. I am off to read all of those "how to convince your wife to get a vino" threads!:hn

Thanks everyone!!


----------



## Funnymantrip (Oct 28, 2004)

Im in Florida and in the summer, in order to pay for my electric bill. 78 degrees is the lowest we go.. I have never had a problem with storage of cigars.


----------



## DennisP (May 13, 2007)

Funnymantrip said:


> Im in Florida and in the summer, in order to pay for my electric bill. 78 degrees is the lowest we go.. I have never had a problem with storage of cigars.


I think those of us in Florida pipe up on this issue every few weeks. Hell, I don't even know a cigar shop that has their smokes below 72 degrees.


----------



## kyee (Sep 16, 2005)

Safe temp/RH levels have been explained on multiple boards thru numerous threads. 65/65 up to 70/70 have been recommended as safe levels. If you're ok with the possible risk at higher levels, that is your decision.


----------



## shilala (Feb 1, 2008)

basso4735 said:


> Great idea..might have to use this in my cooler....


I'm interested to see how often it'd be necessary to replace the ice.
If the cooler is seldom opened, it wouldn't be a big deal.
Using regular fridge ice shouldn't be a problem, either, because any contaminants are kept right in the icebowl. Hehe, I said icebowl. :r


----------



## shilala (Feb 1, 2008)

romwarrior said:


> Leave it to shilala to come up with a great DIY solution. Scott, you are amazing. However, I work all day and have a 1-year old, so I really need something that is a set-and-forget solution. You guys have convinced me enough. I am off to read all of those "how to convince your wife to get a vino" threads!:hn
> 
> Thanks everyone!!


I think you made a brilliant decision.
When you shop Vino, Make sure you look at the Frigidaire FWC342GB Wine Cooler at Lowe's.
200 bucks, it's a 35 bottle wine cooler, and they're awesome.
I'm so pleased with the two I use for my cigars that I bought one for drinks that sets on the back porch.
The only difference between using a vino and using the Frigidaire for cigars is that you'll need to add a decent little computer fan to dry the evaporator plate.
Good Luck with the wife!!!


----------



## DennisP (May 13, 2007)

kyee said:


> If you're ok with the possible risk at higher levels, that is your decision.


That's my point though. If one is freezing what is the risk? Is there anything out there saying that temps in the mid 70s are going to cause the cigars to go bad?

I'm not saying a vinotemp is a bad idea, they are great if that is what you want and many, many advantages. I just don't think it is the only option.


----------



## hotreds (Dec 4, 2007)

romwarrior said:


> No flavored stuff here. And by long-term I guess I mean up to 2-3 years (at least for the singles in bags). For the full boxes I have they will probably last longer.


Well, if you mean to store them for YEARS, I'd venture to say you're better off at a humidity level of about 60%. Good luck- you've gotten beaucoup good info here! I doubt I could leave my stogies alone for that long of a time!


----------

