# Cuba/Castro Int'l Opinions ONLY



## mosesbotbol (Sep 21, 2005)

I would like to hear opinions on Cuba and Castro from NON-USA Citizens concerning all the events going on.

This is a passionate issue on both sides of the fence, yet we have very little insight from our international forum posters.


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## Blueface (May 28, 2005)

mosesbotbol said:


> I would like to hear opinions on Cuba and Castro from NON-USA Citizens concerning all the events going on.
> 
> This is a passionate issue on both sides of the fence, yet we have very little insight from our international forum posters.


Would you like to hear from my wife?
She qualifies as a "NON-USA Citizen.
She resides in the US but is still a citizen of Cuba legally so she therefore meets your criteria.

I bet she can have a blast telling you about the father she hasn't seen but twice in over forty years.
The grandmother that died with out her being able to go see her one last time.
The same with the grandfather.
The same with the aunts and uncles.
The fact her mother and father were seperated forever due to one child (the oldest) not being allowed out of the country so her father had to stay behind with him while the mother came to America with four young children and worked in factories during the day and cleaning homes at night to survive.

Or would you rather hear from folks that travel to Havana once a year, enjoy a hotel no one that lives in Cuba can enjoy, smokes up a storm and returns home to their Non USA homeland?

I am not trying to start a bitch session with you Mosesbotbol.
That is not my intention at all but in the past, I have found your views and statements regarding Cuba to have been very insensitive to Cuban Americans such as myself as they have appeared supportive of the Cuban government.

Personally, I want to hear what the BOTLs in Europe think about cigars and life in Europe. I want to learn from them about what is like to live there as I may never get to go. I want to learn anything that a book has not taught me. I want to hear about their food, their wines, their work and social lives. Personally, don't give a rats' ass what they think of Cuba as only I and my family, along with the many Cubans in exile can really provide you with a clear picture having lived it. You want to learn about Cuba, ask a Cuban. I find this as offensive as asking to hear opinions of Hitler from non-Jews.


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## SeanGAR (Jul 9, 2004)

Well ... my wife's aunt couldn't go home (Venezuela) to her son's wedding due to US immigration policies, I know somebody (US citizen) who was given the option of spending 2 years in Canada with her husband or not seeing him at all because he ran afoul of immigration procedures.

Would the Cuban government have the same policies if it wasn't for the US embargo? Something to think about.


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## Blueface (May 28, 2005)

SeanGAR said:


> Well ... my wife's aunt couldn't go home (Venezuela) to her son's wedding due to US immigration policies, I know somebody (US citizen) who was given the option of spending 2 years in Canada with her husband or not seeing him at all because he ran afoul of immigration procedures.
> 
> Would the Cuban government have the same policies if it wasn't for the US embargo? Something to think about.


The embargo did not induce the atrocities Fidel inflicted on his people. It did not cause the massive executions and mass exodus immediately after Castro took over. At the time, anyone leaving was to never be allowed to return, by Fidel, not the embargo. Fidel's government dictated who would leave and who wouldn't. That jacka** was so worried about Elian yet in his existance as dictator of Cuba, not once did he give a crap about breaking family after family.
The embargo may be a contributor to the cause of ultimately having kept my wife's parents seperated this long but it certainly is not to blame for what caused it in the first place.


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## mosesbotbol (Sep 21, 2005)

Should've clarified that I wanted Europeans, South Americans, Asians... to share their perspective on Cuba and Castro.

If I wanted to hear anti-Castro rants, I could listen to my relatives, but maybe he's disliked uniformly around the world? I just don't find this same kind hatred towards China. Why don't we have an Embargo on China?


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## Blueface (May 28, 2005)

mosesbotbol said:


> If I wanted to hear anti-Castro rants, I could listen to my relatives, but maybe he's disliked uniformly around the world?


Does this mean you seek only POSITIVE PRO-Castro rants?
You have Cuban relatives?
Is that what you are inferring?
I would never venture to guess that based on your defensive posture towards Castro and his regime.

What can you possibly learn from this post that would be helpful to you in your daily life or in the life of the average CS member?
What insight on Castro can those folks you seek feedback from provide that could be of significant value?
Do you go asking about the German concentration camps and what they thought of it from the same folks you seek this now from or would you think that it should only matter to the Jews who so needlessly suffered as result of them?
Don't you see the analogy?
Don't you see how hurtful and offensive any pro Castro crap is to my family, friends and all those that have died as result of Communism in Cuba?
If you don't see that, you are a blind ........ (add the explicative of you choice).


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## SeanGAR (Jul 9, 2004)

What part of *NON-USA Citizens* or *Int'l Opinions ONLY* are hard to understand? You want to rant about Castro, great, go ahead ... in your own thread.


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## Blueface (May 28, 2005)

SeanGAR said:


> What part of *NON-USA Citizens* or *Int'l Opinions ONLY* are hard to understand? You want to rant about Castro, great, go ahead ... in your own thread.


Don't want to take you on also unless you want to.
I respect you but don't appreciate this response.

First:
NON USA Citizen - My wife

Second:
International - Last time I checked that word, it does not mean excluding the US.

in·ter·na·tion·al ( P ) Pronunciation Key (ntr-nsh-nl, -nshnl)
adj. Abbr. int. or intl.
Of, relating to, or involving two or more nations: an international commission; international affairs. 
Extending across or transcending national boundaries: international fame.

Now, you want to clarify for me again?

Knock yourselves out with pro Castro stuff.
I am out of here.
Let me know if anyone wants to permanently move there.
I will pay for it.


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## mosesbotbol (Sep 21, 2005)

Blueface said:


> Does this mean you seek only POSITIVE PRO-Castro rants?
> You have Cuban relatives?
> Is that what you are inferring?


No, I just want to hear from people that have a distanced objective view. Obvious, this is a passionate issue to you. It's like asking my dad (who is a gun maven and a 60+ year cigarette smoker) about gun control and cigarette smoking laws; I'll never get an objective answer.

Yes, actually I do have Cuban relatives by marriage, and blood relatives throughout Latin America. My uncle Al had to abandon his shirt factory in Cuba to set up in Haiti. I feel that countries have a right to self determination, even if it's not the form of government that I would choose. All revolutions, including ours had a starting point, and in all of them, a lot people lost out. I am not trying to be offensive to anyone, but we all are supporters of the regime if we smoke Cuban cigars, aren't we? I don't see you calling for a boycott of Cuban cigars or rum because they support and perpetuate a totalitarian government. At least my grandparents wouldn't buy anything made in Japan or Germany until the day they died.


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## SeanGAR (Jul 9, 2004)

Blueface said:


> First:
> NON USA Citizen - My wife


She didn't post, you did. The post didn't ask for opinions from spouses of NON USA Citizens.



> Second:
> International - Last time I checked that word, it does not mean excluding the US.
> ....
> Now, you want to clarify for me again?


Lets see what Moses said, shall we?



mosesbotbol said:


> I would like to hear opinions on Cuba and Castro from NON-USA Citizens concerning all the events going on.


What part of "NON-USA Citizens" is unclear?



> Knock yourselves out with pro Castro stuff.


What is pro-Castro in my posts? You want to put words into my mouth, you're going to have to do a little better than that.


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## croatan (Mar 23, 2005)

mosesbotbol said:


> I would like to hear opinions on Cuba and Castro from NON-USA Citizens concerning all the events going on.


My grandfather often said: "you can wish in one hand and sh..." well, you get the idea.

In my opinion, this thread was doomed from the beginning. As Moses said in his original post, it is an issue about which many people are passionate. What's the point of stirring things up?


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## RGD (May 10, 2006)

Blueface said:


> Knock yourselves out with pro Castro stuff.


I've read the thread a few times now attempting to pick out the _pro Castro stuff_ - with no luck. My understanding is that the author of the thread simply wanted to hear the views on Castro and Cuba from other parts of the world - i.e. if you are from the United Kingdom, etc - what are your views.

Really simple - very basic - nothing more.

Ron


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## Blueface (May 28, 2005)

RGD said:


> I've read the thread a few times now attempting to pick out the _pro Castro stuff_ - with no luck. My understanding is that the author of the thread simply wanted to hear the views on Castro and Cuba from other parts of the world - i.e. if you are from the United Kingdom, etc - what are your views.
> 
> Really simple - very basic - nothing more.
> 
> Ron


Ron,
I promised to stay out of here but oh well........

Here is what you are missing:

Mosesbotbol Quote to me:
"If I wanted to hear anti-Castro rants........"

Applying what I learned in college in Logic:
You don't want to hear anti-Castro, but you are looking for opinions, therefore you must want to hear Pro-Castro.

Mosesbotbol knows fully well what his intentions were. He is an expert at his Pro Cuba/Communism discussion and the volatility it generates.
Hey, what the heck, the beauty of America, (that can't happen in Cuba by the way), is freedom to express oneself, regardless of ones intent or who you offend. I am certainly not trying to suppress that freedom but just asking why instigate? I received great advice today. One less guy to fuel Mosesbotbol as I will choose to ignore these posts.

BTW,
SeanGar,
Via our PM, you and I set.
I didn't infer you were posting Pro-Castro, just that the thread was intent on going in that direction.
Thanks for the communication.
BTW, my wife feels she is a member given I spend more time here than with her.:r

I am definitely out of here as enough said by me for one day.


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## pistol (Mar 23, 2006)

SeanGAR said:


> What part of *NON-USA Citizens* or *Int'l Opinions ONLY* are hard to understand? You want to rant about Castro, great, go ahead ... in your own thread.


Sean, with all due respect, you posted an opinion in this thread as well... As far as I can see, your opinion also fails to meet the international requirement... Just my :2


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## SeanGAR (Jul 9, 2004)

pistol said:


> Sean, with all due respect, you posted an opinion in this thread as well... As far as I can see, your opinion also fails to meet the international requirement... Just my :2


I have a Canadian passport and was born in Canada, and still talk like a Canuck, especially after getting friendly with Pappy Van Winkle, but I do also have a US passport since close to 2 years.



blue said:


> Mosesbotbol Quote to me:
> "If I wanted to hear anti-Castro rants........"
> 
> Applying what I learned in college in Logic:
> You don't want to hear anti-Castro, but you are looking for opinions, therefore you must want to hear Pro-Castro.


I hope you didn't learn that in logic class because you failed to include the important word "rants" in your argument.

"If I didn't want to hear anti-castro RANTS" .... he could certainly be open for anti-castro OPINIONS.


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## Blueface (May 28, 2005)

SeanGAR said:


> I have a Canadian passport and was born in Canada, and still talk like a Canuck, especially after getting friendly with Pappy Van Winkle, but I do also have a US passport since close to 2 years.
> 
> He, he, got you! Here is what he said:
> Should've clarified that I wanted Europeans, South Americans, Asians... to share their perspective on Cuba and Castro.
> ...


I beg to differ. Just checked with my old dusty textbooks and my logic statement is accurate. Sort of like the "International" correction earlier. At what point does expressing an opinion become a rant? Who defines that? Is it at three words? Two sentences? Two paragraphs? So, I would support that the way this thread has gone, to include Mosesbotbol, yours and my posts, these are officially rants. Therefore, for this thread, opinions=rants.
(Don't even know if I can follow that again)


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## Baric (Jun 14, 2006)

Not meaning to be rude, but this post appears to be going nowhere. at the risk of angering everyone [not my intention] some great BOTLs have fallen into the trap of baiting one another whether purposefully or not. we all joined CS because of our love for cigars, not to start political arguments. i can understand the need for a political discussion as Cuba has a huge effect on all of our lives [directly for Blueface, indirectly for others like me who are affected by interntl diplomacy]. i know this topic can be broached without the baiting and accusations (indeed i have discussed it with Blueface myself before) so does everyone really need to fall out?


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## dadof3illinois (Nov 7, 2004)

I am not trying to start a bitch session with you Mosesbotbol.
*That is not my intention at all but in the past, I have found your views and statements regarding Cuba to have been very insensitive to Cuban Americans such as myself as they have appeared supportive of the Cuban government.*

Stop the flame !!! Blueface, you came into this thread with only one thing on your mind!! Big deal someone doesn't agree with your views. I don't agree with many of peoples views here but I sure in the heck don't go around flaming their posts. And even if I did I wouldn't thread jack to do it!!!!

mosesbotbol never once said anything, at least that I could tell, either for or against Castro or Cuba. You just decided to use this to bash him in his own thread.

Now you want to argue about what you think he should of said with Sean!!!!

You need to remember that you are in the United States and we all are allowed to have our own opnion, even if it's not what you like to hear.

I"m not one to say much about this kind of stuff but wanting mosesbotbol to be sensitive to your views is another Political Correct pile of :BS.

Sorry Blueface, just thought if you could rant about your views then so should everyone. As most of you know, I don't get too involved in this kind of stuff. I usually keep my opinions to myself but this one got to me I guess.

Again, I'm sorry Blueface but that's the way I see your actions on this thread.


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## SeanGAR (Jul 9, 2004)

Blueface said:


> I beg to differ. Just checked with my old dusty textbooks and my logic statement is accurate. Sort of like the "International" correction earlier.


You are wrong. You were wrong with your "International correction" (sic).

Moses asked specifically for opinions of "NON-USA Citizens". Your going on about the definition of International shows that you didn't bother to read the first post in this thread.

You need them big?



mosesbotbol said:


> I would like to hear opinions on Cuba and Castro *from NON-USA Citizens* concerning all the events going on.


It is clear that this is what he meant by the term "International" in his post heading.



> At what point does expressing an opinion become a rant? Who defines that?


The person who started the thread defines it in the context of this thread, and he thought your post was a rant.

In any case, you misquoted him by ignoring the important word RANT in his sentence, thus trying to twist the meaning of what he said .. and then argued with what you said he said which wasn't what he said. See?


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## Braxxy (Apr 1, 2005)

To try and get back on topic, aren't most Euros indifferent to Cuba, they have no embargos that I know of, and Cuba is still a vacation destination for many Europeans.


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## Blueface (May 28, 2005)

dadof3illinois said:


> I am not trying to start a bitch session with you Mosesbotbol.
> *That is not my intention at all but in the past, I have found your views and statements regarding Cuba to have been very insensitive to Cuban Americans such as myself as they have appeared supportive of the Cuban government.*
> 
> Stop the flame !!! Blueface, you came into this thread with only one thing on your mind!! Big deal someone doesn't agree with your views. I don't agree with many of peoples views here but I sure in the heck don't go around flaming their posts. And even if I did I wouldn't thread jack to do it!!!!
> ...


So I guess this is in fact open to more than just NON USA CITIZENS

That said, you have clearly not read many of Mosesbotbol's threads relating to this subject. Wouldn't doubt he is cracking up right now just having a blast seeing what is going on. I will go on to feed it a bit longer.

If you have ever read any of my posts, you will see I know very well what country I am in. One that I am very grateful to be in and provides me freedoms I would not have otherwise known. I even addressed the "respect for opinions" in this thread but you must have missed that in your haste to jump in all over me. I would hope that all those who have blasted Mosesbotbol for these instigations in the past can jump in right now and correct you.

You are right I came in with one thing on my mind. If any agenda, making sure the truth not be covered up by a one week vacation to Havana. You don't think for a minute Mosesbotbol saw the other threads on Castro? He knew he would get more favorable responses to Castro's regime from Europe and elsewhere abroad than from the US.

Lastly, not my views.
I have presented life experiences. Experiences that if you had lived, I would see a different reaction from you. The experiences of Cubans who have suffered thanks to the hands of Castro. I am not expressing political views. Mosesbotbol wants to get into political views. If you would bother to take the time to read, you will see I have not posted political views as you infer.

Lastly, don't I have the freedom to state what I have stated? Isn't that what you have so boldly defended?

Who is next?
I am in that mood today.
Maybe I can be banned by the time the day ends.


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## SDmate (Apr 24, 2005)

:mn


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## SeanGAR (Jul 9, 2004)

Blueface said:


> You don't think for a minute Mosesbotbol saw the other threads on Castro? He knew he would get more favorable responses to Castro's regime from Europe and elsewhere abroad than from the US.


Favorible responses? He asked for OPINIONS, did he not?

What page in your logic book covered misquoting others?


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## dadof3illinois (Nov 7, 2004)

Blueface said:


> So I guess this is in fact open to more than just NON USA CITIZENS
> 
> That said, you have clearly not read many of Mosesbotbol's threads relating to this subject. Wouldn't doubt he is cracking up right now just having a blast seeing what is going on. I will go on to feed it a bit longer.
> 
> ...


Comments in red:

Blueface, you need to take a moment and relax a bit. I can see that this is a subject you have a passion about and that's fine but stop pushing it down Moses, and everyone else's throat's. Actually, I don't care about other peoples opinions. I just care when they start forcing them on myself and others, no matter what the subject is.

Looking at Moses's thread (first post) I never read the first thing about politics!!! Seems you just assume that's what he was thinking or asking about. I didn't see it and still don't.

Maybe it's time you looked in the mirror, seems that your opinion is the only one you care about.


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## Blueface (May 28, 2005)

SeanGAR said:


> Favorible responses? He asked for OPINIONS, did he not?
> 
> What page in your logic book covered misquoting others?


You are cracking me up now.

So.....in your world I have to quote precisely as stated.
To generalize and state "favorable responses" does not address properly "favorable opinions" per your discretion.
If one posts an "opinion" as a "response" to a question, that is not an accurate assesment?

I don't get it, why continue the piss fight?
I thought we were squared away via PM?


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## Blueface (May 28, 2005)

dadof3illinois said:


> Comments in red:
> 
> Blueface, you need to take a moment and relax a bit. I can see that this is a subject you have a passion about and that's fine but stop pushing it down Moses, and everyone else's throat's. Actually, I don't care about other peoples opinions. I just care when they start forcing them on myself and others, no matter what the subject is.
> 
> ...


I will respond simply:
Seems that your opinion is the only one you care about.

Does that sound familiar?

I hope I got that quote right or I will be advised soon by the "quote" patrol.

Last call.
I am not being pulled into this one any longer.
Did not mean to hijack the thread and nothing further to be gained but further piss matches.
Perhaps I jumped the gun assuming his intentions based on prior history and that was poor judgement on my part.
However, lets agree to disagree and move on.


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## j6ppc (Jun 5, 2006)

I won't opine in this thread since I'm a US citizen, albiet one that lived 11 years overseas as an expat who strives to have a *balanced* perspective.

That being said - this thread ought not degenerate into a p*ssing match -- the events in Cuba over the last few days are significant and worthy of discussion.

I'm acutley interested in what people think about these events but equally uninterested in the varied and sundry soapboxes.

Just the facts -- with differentation between fact and *opinion*.

Not too much to ask imho.

Sorry about the mini rant I was hoping for more substance as opposed to rhetoric in this thread.

Bests

Jon

PS yeah I have an opinion but abstaining in this thread 'cos I carry a pesky blue passport.


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## pistol (Mar 23, 2006)

SeanGAR said:


> I have a Canadian passport and was born in Canada, and still talk like a Canuck, especially after getting friendly with Pappy Van Winkle, but I do also have a US passport since close to 2 years.


:r Yeah, well I have dual citizenship too; I was born in the Netherlands, but that sure as shit doesn't make me Dutch! Come on now, Canada doesn't count as International, maybe it does by the letter of the law, but certainly not by the spirit of this thread! Canada may as well be another State, and we may as well be another province for them! It's all good though Sean, I'm sticking up for Blueface because I understand why he is so passionate about this. I hope this doesn't turn ugly; this is obviously a very important subject to Blueface and I think we all ought to back off a little (provided he's civil as well) seeing as he has a very close and personal perspective to the situation...


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## j6ppc (Jun 5, 2006)

pistol said:


> : Come on now, Canada doesn't count as International, maybe it does by the letter of the law, but certainly not by the spirit of this thread! Canada may as well be another State, and we may as well be another province for them! <snip>


Ouch.. fear the wrath of the Canadians who last time I looked were *not* the 51st state.

Bests

Jon


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## pistol (Mar 23, 2006)

j6ppc said:


> Ouch.. fear the wrath of the Canadians who last time I looked were *not* the 51st state.
> 
> Bests
> 
> Jon


Yeah, well I said we may as well be a Province too. The point being we are so close and open that I don't consider Canadians (my wife having lived there for five years, and still lets an occasional "eh" slip) to be foreigners or International allies, more like brothers...


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## dadof3illinois (Nov 7, 2004)

Blueface said:


> I will respond simply:
> Seems that your opinion is the only one you care about.
> *Never once did I ever voice my opinion about this subject, go ahead and read back through my post. What I did have an opinion about was you flaming the person who started the thread. Plus it didn't matter who the author was or what subject it was about I would have said the same things. In the past we had several flamers that wouldn't leave some people alone and kept pushing them every chance they got. CS doesn't need that again....I hate flamers!!!*
> 
> ...


*Sounds good to me.*


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## mosesbotbol (Sep 21, 2005)

Blueface said:


> That said, you have clearly not read many of Mosesbotbol's threads relating to this subject. Wouldn't doubt he is cracking up right now just having a blast seeing what is going on.


I don't find this amusing, as I don't feel I should be out to defend myself when I am simply asking a question on what I consider to be the best international cigar forum, and Cuba is the holy grail of cigars.

No offense, but I am still waiting for some of the international posters to chime in what their opinions are on Cuba and Castro and that does not seem to have happened yet. I was watching CNN International and they painted two distinct pictures of Cuba (the telecast was from Thailand). One image is of a country that is sadden by illness of a leader that's has stood the test of time and is a strongest living symbol of any country. Another picture was of angry people in Little Havana singing & dancing over the impending death of some one they despise.

I know there are a lot of posters on this site that value humanity and are open to political ideals as much as we do in the US, but have fresh (from our perspective) view of the island. I just want to hear what they think. I think you've voiced your opinion on the subject quite clearly.

I really haven't said much about Castro or Cuba on this post. I have stated common facts about what Cuba has achieved (in previous threads) in comparison to their Caribbean neighbors. This thread is not about what I think, I already know that; it's about others from the around the world- what do they think?


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## ATLHARP (May 3, 2005)

My only thing is shouldn't this be in the _everything but cigars_ forum? I mean What does this have to do with cigars?

ATL


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## SeanGAR (Jul 9, 2004)

Blueface said:


> You are cracking me up now.
> 
> So.....in your world I have to quote precisely as stated.
> To generalize and state "favorable responses" does not address properly "favorable opinions" per your discretion.
> ...


This isn't a piss fight, I'm doing you a favor in correcting you.

The word "favorible" is yours and only yours. Mosesbotbol asked for "opinions", and did not mention "favorible" anywhere. So I don't see your logic in misquoting others and then arguing about it.

I'm cool with you ... you hate Castro, thats fine, I personally think he should be shot, but he is better than the Duvaliers were (my NON-USA Citizen opinion).


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## HeavySmoke (Apr 9, 2006)

j6ppc said:


> Ouch.. fear the wrath of the Canadians who last time I looked were *not* the 51st state.
> 
> Bests
> 
> Jon


Its alright Jon....we dont mind you Canucks! Great skiing in Canada and better ice hockey. :u


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## IHT (Dec 27, 2003)

ATLHARP said:


> My only thing is shouldn't this be in the _everything but cigars_ forum? I mean What does this have to do with cigars?
> 
> ATL


no, leave it here, i don't want this headache. :c


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## Zenistar (Jun 19, 2006)

From what I have seen there are two main reactions to the news of Castro's health problems. With the Cuban expat community they are celebrating because it could be the end of his power reign and also some Cubans living on the island are reacting in a simlar way. But there is another side and that is the side of the Cubans who support Castro and do not want to see his reign over.

From my own point of view I have no real opinion on Castro, though a democratically elected leader / government may be best in reality it is up to the people involved. The pictures of all the flag waving cubans at Castro's public speech a few days ago show that he has a fair amount of supporters.

If we are taking about a change of leader in the future and the possible dropping of the US embargo related to cigars I think all hell is going to break loose with regards to Cuban and American cigar brands that the same in name at present.


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## Baric (Jun 14, 2006)

mosesbotbol said:


> No offense, but I am still waiting for some of the international posters to chime in what their opinions are on Cuba and Castro and that does not seem to have happened yet. I was watching CNN International and they painted two distinct pictures of Cuba (the telecast was from Thailand). One image is of a country that is sadden by illness of a leader that's has stood the test of time and is a strongest living symbol of any country. Another picture was of angry people in Little Havana singing & dancing over the impending death of some one they despise.


This is what iseem to pick up from the British point of view [being British and reading UK papers etc]. The uk is, on the whole, far more pro-Cuba (for those people that actually think about these issues in this country) than the US is. The US seems very divided, whereas the UK backs Castro for what i see as two reasons:

-Either the supporters are lefties so support his ideals
-Or, far more common and dont take this the wrong way, they support Cuba because Cuba is the enemy of their enemy-the US. im not a US hater and most Brits are not hardcore US haters, however at the moent in the UK there is a very strong feeling of opposition to the US because of the wars in Iraq etc. You may find this strange because were your closest allies but so many people are opposed to blair due to his toadieness with Bush that Blair does not speak for the majority of the UK. Therefore i think in Britain, Castro is more often hailed as hero than villain.


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## poker (Dec 11, 1997)

All I know is I saved a lot of money switching to Geico.


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## ATLHARP (May 3, 2005)

All I know from the international opinion concerning Cuba is that it is impossible to find a decent shoe-shine there.....:2 


ATL


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## ATLHARP (May 3, 2005)

HeavySmoke said:


> Its alright Jon....we dont mind you Canucks! Great skiing in Canada and better ice hockey. :u


 Yeah, but the women need to shave..........Especially in Quebec!

ATL


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## stogie_kanobie_one (Feb 9, 2006)

Alas, some International opinion! I actually find what the Internataonal audience has to say quite interesting! This has surprised me. While I was sitting on the sidelines and watching the train wreck I thought no one from the International side is every going to chime in now. Thanks to the ones who have so far. I'm looking forward to any more that may chime in.  

Zenistar... thanks for the input.
Baric.... Appreciate the honesty there.


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## dayplanner (Dec 11, 1997)

poker said:


> All I know is I saved a lot of money switching to Geico.


:r :z


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## WillyGT (Sep 13, 2004)

Zenistar said:


> From what I have seen there are two main reactions to the news of Castro's health problems. With the Cuban expat community they are celebrating because it could be the end of his power reign and also some Cubans living on the island are reacting in a simlar way. But there is another side and that is the side of the Cubans who support Castro and do not want to see his reign over.


:tpd:

I have never personally been to Cuba or lived there so I cannot make any opionion based on my direct experience, but I have known several Cubans and seen this diference. I have seen this hate against Castro specially on the ones that went out of Cuba and had to leave family there. The ones I have met that live IN Cuba always have said good supportive things, speacially young people.

Me, I have to admit, I did like some of their original ideals (from Che guevara and Fidel) from the revolution and comunism, but also have to admit that his constant place in power has corrupted those ideals. I do think that the embargo, which caused Cuba's Isolation from the rest of the world is what has make them remain in the state in which they are. Mexico used to be a great supporter of Cuba, up until Vicente Fox, who really likes to kiss Bush's Ass (No Offense for anyone intended), and we have become even more dependent of the US.

I think the current events in Cuba, might move some things around, and cause some changes, maybe a take over Cuba? maybe Fidel might consider to build a new younger team to continue even after he is gone? I dont really know. As I said this is only an opinion from an external point of view, and anything that happens I hope for the best for the Cuban people.

Carlos.


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## GOAT LOCKER (Aug 7, 2004)

Well, I'm a citizen of the world. Does that count? :r Really, I don't see how one could see Americans as unable to form an independant opinion. As someone who travels a lot, I do have a more international view of the world than many. Hopefully, my opinion is not invalid due to my USA citizenship.

I won't offer my opinion on Castro, but here's something that has me concerned for the Cuban people:

Some who have visited Cuba recently have commented on a crackdown on the few personal freedoms some people were starting to get. Specifically, they cracked down on people working side jobs, like renting out rooms to visitors, driving a taxi after hours, growing and selling produce, selling food, etc. These crackdowns, along with the "Convertible Peso" are, IMO, aimed at wiping out the underground economy that some Cubans depended on.

I wonder if this is all a result of Castro passing authority to his brother and his cronies over the past year or two. If so, his death may lead to even more crackdowns as the new government consolidates it's power. Just my thoughts... I hope I'm wrong.


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## Baric (Jun 14, 2006)

GOAT LOCKER said:


> Some who have visited Cuba recently have commented on a crackdown on the few personal freedoms some people were starting to get. Specifically, they cracked down on people working side jobs, like renting out rooms to visitors, driving a taxi after hours, growing and selling produce, selling food, etc. These crackdowns, along with the "Convertible Peso" are, IMO, aimed at wiping out the underground economy that some Cubans depended on.


I find this surprising to hear considering that when i last visited Cuba (and not just the exclusive int'l hotels to clarify-i spent much of the time travelling round Cuba's roads, picking up hitchikers and travelling around talking to them and visiting people's houses.)
When i was there most of te people actually said the opposite was true-the govt was far more friendly to individual business-indeed i was repeatedly offered many authentic meals in people's houses etc for a small price. i was told by them that the govt now allowedsmall private enterprises like these to supplement their incomes. this was a year ago-have things changed??


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## GOAT LOCKER (Aug 7, 2004)

Baric said:


> this was a year ago-have things changed??


Apparently so, according to someone who attended the festival a couple months ago. Obviously this is second hand info, but I trust and respect the person who described the conditions. He goes at least once a year, has many friends there and was quite dismayed. Oh yeah, he's not an American. :r


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## Jungle_Rat (Feb 19, 2006)

mosesbotbol said:


> No offense, but I am still waiting for some of the international posters to chime in what their opinions are on Cuba and Castro and that does not seem to have happened yet.


Personally speaking the reason you're not getting much of a response from international posters is pretty simple.It's an emotional subject for US citizens as well as Cuban ex-pats,we'll get shot down/flamed in no time.

Don't get me wrong,this is an awesome forum but when subjects like these come along then emotions run riot.

Personally speaking the situation in Cuba is something inevitable,nothing lasts forever and the healing of old wounds will take a few generations to sort out.

There goes my ring gauge.....


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## Blueface (May 28, 2005)

Folks, after sleeping on this, in spite of the numerous positive comments I received in support or better yet, understanding of the reason for my passion, I recognize I used the wrong forum to express myself and for that I apologize to anyone offended.

Those of you that are not sensitive to this issue or don't understand my passion, I just wish none of you ever have to experience what I or my family did or the many, many Cubans before me and after me. This subject to me and any Cuban in exile is as volitile as religion or cussing your mother. You don't have any idea what that life was like or what we have endured and to chance glorification of this dictator is something resentful to most of us. I can't help that but I can certainly understand I was out of line jumping on Mosesbotbol from the word go as I convicted him long before the trial.

I don't come to this board looking for piss matches and I seem to have gotten myself into more than I care to as result of this thread. I have made many friends here and have herfed in multiple states and that is the primary reason to be on board.


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## HeavySmoke (Apr 9, 2006)

poker said:


> All I know is I saved a lot of money switching to Geico.


Sweet, the gecco commercials crack me up mate.


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## M1903A1 (Jun 7, 2006)

Zenistar said:


> From what I have seen there are two main reactions to the news of Castro's health problems. With the Cuban expat community they are celebrating because it could be the end of his power reign and also some Cubans living on the island are reacting in a simlar way. But there is another side and that is the side of the Cubans who support Castro and do not want to see his reign over.


My :2 (.0378 cents after inflation), as a damnyankee who has always had a fascination with Communism and the Soviet Bloc...when it is finally announced that Castro is dead (whenever it happens), rather than rejoicing, I say you will see a lot of grieving among Cubans. Not because he's so universally beloved, and not necessarily because of State compulsion, but out of fear of the future. It's important to remember that an awful lot of Cubans have known nothing their whole lives but the rule (for good or ill) of the Maximum Leader...once he's gone, what's next? The same thing happened when Stalin died in 1953.



> From my own point of view I have no real opinion on Castro, though a democratically elected leader / government may be best in reality it is up to the people involved. The pictures of all the flag waving cubans at Castro's public speech a few days ago show that he has a fair amount of supporters.


While Castro undoubtedly still has a lot of supporters, it's also worth remembering that rally attendance probably isn't too optional down there. It's also permitted time away from work or school, and when it comes to free time on a nice day Cubans are probably no different from us.


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## pedrolf (Oct 25, 2005)

Blueface Im sorry I have to you in these manners, but I sense a strong and somewhat (im sorry) quasi-rude attitude towards your oposal to communism and Fidel Castro. Granted Fidel Castro isnt the greatest leader alive, but havent you taken in consideration the President of the US George Bush? What have you to say about him? What are your opinions? And about the relationship the U.S has with other third world countries? I can place my opinions, but I would like to hear yours first if it isnt of any inconvenience to you of course.....


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## ComicBookFreak (Sep 7, 2005)

pedrolf said:


> Blueface Im sorry I have to you in these manners, but I sense a strong and somewhat (im sorry) quasi-rude attitude towards your oposal to communism and Fidel Castro. Granted Fidel Castro isnt the greatest leader alive, but havent you taken in consideration the President of the US George Bush? What have you to say about him? What are your opinions? And about the relationship the U.S has with other third world countries? I can place my opinions, but I would like to hear yours first if it isnt of any inconvenience to you of course.....


Just remember you asked for it.o o :al

CBF:w


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## pedrolf (Oct 25, 2005)

Its not as Im gonna get scolded at or anything...On another note, I just realized Blueface is Cuban (as in born on Cuban soil)...en tal caso, disculpa mi intromision y mi afan en extraerte opiniones del presidente Bush...Yo pensaba que eras anglo-sajon.


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## ComicBookFreak (Sep 7, 2005)

Puisque vous parlez une autre langue, puis I également. Soigneux ce que vous demandez. Ou votre pied peut finir vers le haut dans votre bouche.

Je vous ai averti.....o 

CBF:w


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## pedrolf (Oct 25, 2005)

ya simon mamaverga!


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## Mr C (Jul 6, 2006)

Guess i'll quietly pass under the radar here.
In South Africa, there are absolutly no opinions on anything to do with Cuba for a mojority.
We don't get much press about it and are not affected whatsoever with any embargos or such.

We simply walk into a B&M and pick from huge humidors with a wide variety, cuban and non  (I didn't even know what was happening in Cuba till I joined this site)

Actually cigars are quite cheap here for us (and at R7 to one dollar, even cheaper for you guys 
So come visit 

Since we are not affected in any way and only had our first democratic elections in 1994, we are too busy building our own nation to have time to worry about other nations.

Just a reminder, a change in government is not easy, it takes alot of work and many many years for things to start to get back on track. The entire economy gets worse and many more people suffer before it starts to pay off.

Sometimes the next government with all its freedoms and such makes for worse living... (imagine a Bill being passed that cuban cigars are from now on not being exported period? ouch) 

Many previously disadvantaged groups who thought it was going to be easy sailing after the elections have only come to realise now that all it did was bring everyone down to ground zero, now its dog eat dog as we scramble to succeed with no one at top to mantain the economy.

My heart goes out to all those who have and are suffering, I see it and feel it here on a daily basis. It's on my doorstep. I hope that as a world that is shrinking, we all offer eachother the support we can and make this truly a united planet 

Vote Mr C for president k


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## ComicBookFreak (Sep 7, 2005)

pedrolf said:


> ya simon mamaverga!


Я надеюсь не был личным нападением. Всасывает? Но я реально не забочу он кажусь вы справедливое wanna шевелит shit. Будете вы коммунистом? Вы вероятно. Так, насладитесь вашим камрадом жизни. Пока мы сидим здесь в Соединенных Штатах свободно. Как раз не приходит здесь оскорбляя Carlos, и spewing вы коммунистический :BS .

Имейте славного камрада дня!

CBF:w


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## dayplanner (Dec 11, 1997)

pedrolf said:


> Blueface Im sorry I have to you in these manners, but I sense a strong and somewhat (im sorry) quasi-rude attitude towards your oposal to communism and Fidel Castro. Granted Fidel Castro isnt the greatest leader alive, but havent you taken in consideration the President of the US George Bush? What have you to say about him? What are your opinions? And about the relationship the U.S has with other third world countries? I can place my opinions, but I would like to hear yours first if it isnt of any inconvenience to you of course.....


Instead of hijacking this thread with anti-Bush rhetoric, why not start a new thread? This thread is about Castro afterall...


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## Jungle_Rat (Feb 19, 2006)

Mr C said:


> Guess i'll quietly pass under the radar here.
> In South Africa, there are absolutly no opinions on anything to do with Cuba for a mojority.
> We don't get much press about it and are not affected whatsoever with any embargos or such.


Lekka ek se.....

A fellow countryman,i'll be damned.Mr C have you noticed the drop in prices in our neck of the woods ??.

Anyway,back on topic.


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## Puffy69 (Sep 8, 2005)

ComicBookFreak said:


> Я надеюсь не был личным нападением. Всасывает? Но я реально не забочу он кажусь вы справедливое wanna шевелит shit. Будете вы коммунистом? Вы вероятно. Так, насладитесь вашим камрадом жизни. Пока мы сидим здесь в Соединенных Штатах свободно. Как раз не приходит здесь оскорбляя Carlos, и spewing вы коммунистический :BS .
> 
> Имейте славного камрада дня!
> 
> CBF:w


:tpd: :r


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## Aaron (Nov 28, 2005)

mosesbotbol said:


> I would like to hear opinions on Cuba and Castro from NON-USA Citizens concerning all the events going on.
> 
> This is a passionate issue on both sides of the fence, yet we have very little insight from our international forum posters.


Does it count if Pat Buchanan would call me a non-USA citizen despite my family going back to the Mayflower?


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## KingMeatyHand (Mar 21, 2004)

*yawn*


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## pedrolf (Oct 25, 2005)

Im not startin any anti-bush bull :BS , Im just saying, most people here are quick to say Castro should be dead , or Chavez is the biggest SOB alive, we should invade the world! and :BS like that. All Im saying is , before passing harsh judgement to foreign leaders and/or politics, why dont you take a good look at Bush, or the whole country for that matter.....


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## pedrolf (Oct 25, 2005)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ComicBookFreak
Я надеюсь не был личным нападением. Всасывает? Но я реально не забочу он кажусь вы справедливое wanna шевелит shit. Будете вы коммунистом? Вы вероятно. Так, насладитесь вашим камрадом жизни. Пока мы сидим здесь в Соединенных Штатах свободно. Как раз не приходит здесь оскорбляя Carlos, и spewing вы коммунистический .

Имейте славного камрада дня!

CBF 


ComicBookFreak......your so funnyyyyyyyy!!!!!!!!!! 
:fu


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## GOAT LOCKER (Aug 7, 2004)

pedrolf said:


> Im not startin any anti-bush bull :BS , Im just saying, most people here are quick to say Castro should be dead , or Chavez is the biggest SOB alive, we should invade the world! and :BS like that. All Im saying is , before passing harsh judgement to foreign leaders and/or politics, why dont you take a good look at Bush, or the whole country for that matter.....


Which shifts the debate to Bush, not the subject of the thread. That's what a thread "Hijack" is. The above post takes it even further.


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