# Can I store my cigars at 58 degrees and 70 percent humidity?



## stevetimko (May 9, 2015)

I'm looking at a couple of options for storing cigars. The way to store them without big temperature swings would be in my wine locker. Would it work to storethem at 58 degrees and 70 percent humidity? I see conflicting information about this when I research other threads. One talked about having extreme humidity for a temperature as low as that.


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## JohnnyFlake (May 31, 2006)

stevetimko said:


> I'm looking at a couple of options for storing cigars. The way to store them without big temperature swings would be in my wine locker. Would it work to storethem at 58 degrees and 70 percent humidity? I see conflicting information about this when I research other threads. One talked about having extreme humidity for a temperature as low as that.


To answer your question correctly, it is necessary to know how the cigars will be stored. Will some be in cigar boxes and others loose on trays, etc., or will all the cigars be stored in a sealed container and the container stored in the Wine Locker?


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## stonecutter2 (Jul 12, 2012)

I don't see anything wrong with storing cigars at 58 degrees and 70 percent relative humidity, so long as you have a humidification device that will keep that RH stable. 

Extreme humidity for cigars would be in the order of 80-100% humidity, or wide swings in humidity/temperatures regularly. You want consistency as much as possible, or gradual fluctuations.

You will need to acclimate the cigars to the cooler temp, depending on how warm it is outside of the wine cooler. If you take 70% humidified cigars at 80 degrees F and put them in a 58 degree wine cooler, the warm humid air in the cigars could condense out to a degree, similar to how a cold drink condenses liquid water out of warm air on a hot summer day.

If you're super concerned, try a few cigars to test it out first.


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## Tgs679 (Mar 2, 2014)

Im not sure at 58 degrees F, 70% RH can be stable.


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## stevetimko (May 9, 2015)

The cigars are in tuppadores with 69 percent Boveda humidity packets. The hygrometer shows they are at 70 percent humidity. Maybe it will eventually drop to 69 percent.


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## quazy50 (Aug 6, 2007)

Hygro could be 1% off. Many are +or- 2%


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## elco69 (May 1, 2013)

I think you will be ok if you leave them in the tupperdores. They will act as a barrier to prevent swing in both temp and RH, but as others have mention, stability is key.


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## JohnnyFlake (May 31, 2006)

stevetimko said:


> The cigars are in tuppadores with 69 percent Boveda humidity packets. The hygrometer shows they are at 70 percent humidity. Maybe it will eventually drop to 69 percent.


That's good! That way the cigars will not be subjected to the natural dehydration factors created by refrigerator environments, which is what a wine locker/cooler actually is. The sealed tuppadores will create their own micro environment and the RH will stay constant. If your getting 70% at normal room temp, it may drop a few points in the cooler temp of 58 or 60 degrees, but that will be fine, the cigars will do well.


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## Cigary (Oct 19, 2007)

What we want to ensure is that we store our cigars as close to the prime numbers ( 70/70) as possible. Most store their cigars around 65% RH which is a very popular plan for storage. Temperature and RH swings are going to ruin your cigars or at the very least are going to greatly affect their overall taste. There are means by which your cigars can be kept at the prime temp/RH. Temperature swings can cause damage just like RH...we want to ensure that there are not large swings....small swings are fine.....but I've seen temperature swings of 70 to 80 in a day and bounce back and forth over weeks will cause problems with quality....the same with RH. A 5% variance isn't going to hurt if it bounces back and forth like 63 - 68RH....but I wouldn't want to see it go over 70% for very long. Just 40 years of experience talking here.


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## rolexralph (Jul 10, 2015)

Seems like too cold to me


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## rolexralph (Jul 10, 2015)

Maybe if they were kept in a very tight humidor


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## NCPANTHERZFAN (Aug 9, 2014)

Wouldn't having that low of a temp stop the aging process? I'm not sure but I believe that I read low temp storage slows if not stops the aging process. This is not definitive, but I'm sure it would have some effect.


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## jp1979 (Sep 12, 2013)

there is a chart somewhere on the internet that will show you what temp vs rh would be equal to 70/70. you shoulf be fine temp wise. i believe Davidoffs long term vault is in the 50's for temp. i think you would need a humidity higher than 70, since cold air doesn's hold as much water.


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## stevetimko (May 9, 2015)

So how much higher? Boveda makes an 84 percent pack.
I've been doing it for a couple of weeks now. Hard to say but maybe the cigars are getting a little bit dry.


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## hans hammer (Oct 29, 2013)

58 is perfectly fine, the only issue, as a previous poster mentioned, is you will slow the aging process. Cut and dry, plain and simple.


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## asmartbull (Aug 16, 2009)

58 is fine
70 rh often yields bitter cigars with muted flavors....
that 70/70 crap is just that


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## Cigary (Oct 19, 2007)

asmartbull said:


> 58 is fine
> 70 rh often yields bitter cigars with muted flavors....
> that 70/70 crap is just that


This flies in the face of current experts as far as 70/70....this is the optimum number(s) but most experience burn issues...not quality issues... but if one likes their tobacco stored at a RH of 40% inside the stomach of a yak that's all that matters. I like my steaks medium rare while others like them rare....it will always be about personal tastes but sometimes facts matter and the discerning person would I think...want as much credible information to go by and THEN proceed as they choose.


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## Doc Rock (Dec 26, 2006)

Cigary said:


> This flies in the face of current experts as far as 70/70....this is the optimum number(s) but most experience burn issues...not quality issues... but if one likes their tobacco stored at a RH of 40% inside the stomach of a yak that's all that matters. I like my steaks medium rare while others like them rare....it will always be about personal tastes but sometimes facts matter and the discerning person would I think...want as much credible information to go by and THEN proceed as they choose.


What he said.

My humidor (which accommodates about 300 cigars in two compartments) is so airtight that one small (kitchen) sponge dampened with distilled water will keep the RH where I like it for weeks during the summer (when the ambient RH is around 55-60%). In the winter, when the ambient RH drops, I have to recharge the sponge about once a week. Takes me more than a year to go through one gallon of distilled water.


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## asmartbull (Aug 16, 2009)

70/70 has been around for a while but the push really started in 08 with Oliva inserting storage instructions in their boxes. They did this to support what they were recommending to the vendors, who store at the higher rh to compensate for the consumers who don't have proper storage at home. There have been plenty of blind studies on this board and others that support the 130 rule...65/65 for NC's.
........ever wonder why a cigar that has rested at home at a lower rh was better than the one you had at the lounge? ....

This is really a first world problem and really doesn't matter, but ask companies that sell rh media products what their top sellers are?


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## stevetimko (May 9, 2015)

hans hammer said:


> 58 is perfectly fine, the only issue, as a previous poster mentioned, is you will slow the aging process. Cut and dry, plain and simple.


I have less than 10 that need to age. Most of these are from an 80 yard gar bomb I got. They have already aged in the cigar seller's humidor.


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## droy1958 (Sep 3, 2014)

70/70 is fine for storage, but it's not worth a damn for smoking in my opinion. I have a YETI that I use for long term storage and it holds 70 like a fat boy holds a Hershey bar. When I'm ready to smoke them, I'll move them to one of my desktops that run 60-65 depending on the season and let them rest a spell....


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## Cigary (Oct 19, 2007)

droy1958 said:


> 70/70 is fine for storage, but it's not worth a damn for smoking in my opinion. I have a YETI that I use for long term storage and it holds 70 like a fat boy holds a Hershey bar. When I'm ready to smoke them, I'll move them to one of my desktops that run 60-65 depending on the season and let them rest a spell....


This is certainly an option for long resting as it keeps the essential oils within the cigar itself and then moving it to another humidor where the RH is at 65 is something that I do as well but I leave it in that environment for a few weeks. It takes about a solid week for a cigar that is at 70%RH to come down 1 or 2% and we want our cigars to smoke as good as it can.


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## droy1958 (Sep 3, 2014)

Cigary said:


> This is certainly an option for long resting as it keeps the essential oils within the cigar itself and then moving it to another humidor where the RH is at 65 is something that I do as well but I leave it in that environment for a few weeks. It takes about a solid week for a cigar that is at 70%RH to come down 1 or 2% and we want our cigars to smoke as good as it can.


Agreed...


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## jp1979 (Sep 12, 2013)

this is what I was looking for:

Cigar Humidity | Cigar Humidor Humidity | Cigar Storage Humidity


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## stevetimko (May 9, 2015)

jp1979 said:


> this is what I was looking for:
> 
> []Cigar Humidity | Cigar Humidor Humidity | Cigar Storage Humidity[/url]


This is where it starts to get confusing. Does it matter that I have the cigars in an air tight container? Does Davidoff store at that high of humidity? Should I switch tot he 84 percent Boveda humidity packets?
I've had it in storage like this now for about three weeks. I'm not noticing a decline in cigar quality, but maybe it happens gradually. I don't want to ruin my cigars. It's the most reliable place I have to store my cigars.


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## StogieNinja (Jul 29, 2009)

asmartbull said:


> 70/70 has been around for a while but the push really started in 08 with Oliva inserting storage instructions in their boxes. They did this to support what they were recommending to the vendors, who store at the higher rh to compensate for the consumers who don't have proper storage at home.


Dude, I didn't know that. Good to know, and makes a ton of sense.


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## Bizumpy (Nov 14, 2014)

Keep in mind the old advice about 70/70 means 70 AND 70. Not one or the other. Temp and RH always work together.

As the link that someone else posted shows, when one decreases the other must rise to maintain the appropriate amount of moisture in the tobacco. In reality the humidity isn't important, what's important is how much water is in your tobacco. Air humidity is only important because the air is what determines how much water is in your cigars since that's what they sit around in. 

The appropriate moisture content in cigars has traditionally been met when they're stored for extended periods at 70/70. Some guys like to store their sticks with less moisture. If you drop _either _the temp or the RH, the moisture in the cigars will decrease since the air surrounding the cigars has less moisture in it. If you drop _both _temp and RH, your cigars will have a lot less moisture in them.

The upshot of this is that, if you decide to store your sticks at 58 F, the air will be so cold that it will have to be completely saturated to hold enough water around the cigars to keep them at the proper dampness. If you drop the temp that much and hold the RH at 70, your sticks will dry out very quickly. In fact, because of the dewpoint issue, you might not be able to saturate the air enough at 58 F without literal water forming in the humidor and on the cigars.

And indeed looking at the chart in the link posted above, that seems to be the case. Thanks for that link, by the way, very helpful.


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## Hermit (Aug 5, 2008)

I might keep em all chilly if I wanted em to age slower.
If I'm comfortable, my cigars are comfortable. :mrgreen:


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## Bizumpy (Nov 14, 2014)

I'm gonna continue with the above cause I'm bored.

While you don't care about RH, you do care about Absolute Humidity. AH can be calculated with the RH and the temp and the air pressure, though usually air pressure can be forgotten because it doesn't affect the outcome too much. While RH is measured in percent, AH is usually measured in grams of water per cubic meter of air.

You're shooting for 12-13 grams (of water) per cubic meter (of air) for cigars. Assume standard 1 ATM air pressure for the following calculations although, again, a normal change in that won't make much difference.

70/70 will give you 12.93 g/m^3, which is at the high-end. 70 F / 65 RH will give you 12.00 g/m^3 which is at the low end. 65 F / 65 RH will give you 10.21 g/m^3 which is pretty low, though some guys like 'em that dry. Some guys like 'em even drier and go down to 65 F and 60 RH, which gives you 9.42 g/m^3. But to me that's way too dry and wrappers will start to crack, etc at that point.

58 F / 70 RH will give you 8.70 g/m^3 which is far too low. To get back up to 12.00 g/m^3 you'd need a constant RH of 97% which would be almost impossible without ruining the sticks.

Of course different cigar tobaccos "like" slightly different ranges of AH (notably Cubans), but most will fit between 12-13 g/m^3 and smoke fine there. We could even broaden it to 11-14 g/m^3 but that's on the verge of being too dry in the 11s and too wet in the 13s.

The guys who store their cigars at 60 F and 60 RH are dropping their AH to less than 8 g/m^3 which to me is nuts. You've lost 1/3 of the moisture originally in the stick. But to each his own. 

And finally, keep in mind a colder, thus drier, cigar will probably not "age slower." Especially at an extremely low temp under, say, 60F. It will dry out, the leaf cells will start to rupture, it will lose its essential oils which will start to oxidize. And while, yes, the colder temp will cause the oils to oxidize somewhat slower, the accelerated leaf rupture taking place in the drier air will more than offset that, IMHO.


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## Cigary (Oct 19, 2007)

Bizumpy said:


> I'm gonna continue with the above cause I'm bored.
> 
> While you don't care about RH, you do care about Absolute Humidity. AH can be calculated with the RH and the temp and the air pressure, though usually air pressure can be forgotten because it doesn't affect the outcome too much. While RH is measured in percent, AH is usually measured in grams of water per cubic meter of air.
> 
> ...


I agree with this analysis even though my head exploded before I read the last paragraph...should have read that one first. I haven't had that much science input since college...where's my Excedrin Migraine?


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## elco69 (May 1, 2013)

Cigary said:


> I agree with this analysis even though my head exploded before I read the last paragraph...should have read that one first. I haven't had that much science input since college...where's my Excedrin Migraine?


My head stayed in tact, barely but oddly I followed along. Great post for us geeks, nerds, and handy IT guys


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## jp1979 (Sep 12, 2013)

here is a better one.


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## stevetimko (May 9, 2015)

All right, then. It looks like the best I can do is the 84 percent provided by the Boveda humidity packs.


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## jp1979 (Sep 12, 2013)

according to the chart, 64 degrees at 84 percent will be the same as 70/70. I personally wouldn't do it but that's just me. I roll mid 60's temp, low 60's rh... my personal preference.


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## stevetimko (May 9, 2015)

Are there any tricks to getting an even higher humidity?


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## jp1979 (Sep 12, 2013)

stevetimko said:


> Are there any tricks to getting an even higher humidity?


never tried it, is the spot you are going to put them 58 degrees and you are trying to match a humidity to that?


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## stevetimko (May 9, 2015)

jp1979 said:


> never tried it, is the spot you are going to put them 58 degrees and you are trying to match a humidity to that?


They've been at 58 degrees and 70 percent humidity for three weeks. They seem fine. I'm going to log off the computer right now, buy some Boveda 84 percent humidity packs and put them in. I'll grab another cigar or two to smoke to check in on them.


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## jp1979 (Sep 12, 2013)

where are they that is 58 degrees?


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## stevetimko (May 9, 2015)

jp1979 said:


> where are they that is 58 degrees?


As I said in my first post, in my wine locker.


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## stevetimko (May 9, 2015)

By the way, I pulled this Diesel out and smoked it. It's been stored at 58 degrees and 70 percent humidity for several weeks. The first few puffs were tight and I thought for sure the cigar was damaged. It was basically the torpedo design. By the fourth or fifth puff everything was fine. It wasn't a great cigar but there were no obvious flaws. But I've got the 84 percent Boveda humidity packs in now.


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## jp1979 (Sep 12, 2013)

stevetimko said:


> As I said in my first post, in my wine locker.


Ahhh, I missed that, ok.


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## Bizumpy (Nov 14, 2014)

jp1979 said:


> here is a better one.


The curved line on that graph represents an AH of 13 grams of water per cubic meter of air.

Hey, if folks like smoking super dry cigars, I'm not gonna tell em not to. I knew a guy who would pull off the cello and clip them when he got them and then store them for months in a drawer with no humidity control at all. They crackled as they burned but he loved em that way. One way to make sure nobody bums cigars off you 

It's like putting ice in your wine. Not recommended but hey... it's a free country.


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## jp1979 (Sep 12, 2013)

Bizumpy said:


> The curved line on that graph represents an AH of 13 grams of water per cubic meter of air.
> 
> Hey, if folks like smoking super dry cigars, I'm not gonna tell em not to. I knew a guy who would pull off the cello and clip them when he got them and then store them for months in a drawer with no humidity control at all. They crackled as they burned but he loved em that way. One way to make sure nobody bums cigars off you
> 
> It's like putting ice in your wine. Not recommended but hey... it's a free country.


13 ah is 70/70, correct? What is it at 66/65 and 70/60?


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## HighNoon (Jun 17, 2015)

droy1958 said:


> 70/70 is fine for storage, but it's not worth a damn for smoking in my opinion. I have a YETI that I use for long term storage and it holds 70 like a fat boy holds a Hershey bar. When I'm ready to smoke them, I'll move them to one of my desktops that run 60-65 depending on the season and let them rest a spell....


This has been my experience. The coolidor gets 70rh beads (really more like 69rh in my set up). Those to be smoked get put in 65rh desktops controlled by boveda. Thus far so long as I give them 1 week or so in the 65rh I have had no bad experiences with burn and construction (no cello, or cello cut to allow flow to each end). This is of course if the cigars have rested for at least several weeks in the coolidor prior to going to my "smoking" dekstops.

Also, as I have gotten more sticks in storage I have taken the approach to leaving cello on those that might be sitting around a bit before being smoked if they are noncc. My thought is that why start them aging more quickly if I might be sitting on them more than 1 year. So if I think I will smoke it in 6 months or less (pull back the foreskin on the cello and nip the tip in the coolidor)


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## Bizumpy (Nov 14, 2014)

jp1979 said:


> 13 ah is 70/70, correct? What is it at 66/65 and 70/60?


Looks like

66F/65RH = 10.5 g/m3 
70F/60RH = 11.1 g/m3

You can see the rather striking impact of temperature change on the ability of air to hold water. Most cigar guys worry about a few-percent change in RH when they should be worrying more about a few-degree change in temperature.


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## Cigar Guru (Dec 22, 2012)

Wait. Is it just me or is rh being described completely out of context here?

rh is RELATIVE Humidity. Meaning relative to temperature. So 70% rh at 50 degrees is the same as 70% rh at 80 degrees. Meaning there is 70% moisture in the environment at what ever temperature. 65% rh at 50 degrees is the same with 65% rh at 80 degrees.

What ever happens, do not exceed 70% rh. Not ever.

The trouble comes in achieving and maintaining your desired rh with the swings in temperature.

My advise is don't be so anal about it and just try to keep it between 60 and 70 rh. 60 being too dry for most and 70 being too wet. But smokable still.

I think that graph is for the outside and not based on the climate in a humidor.


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## stevetimko (May 9, 2015)

The guy who makes Illusione cigars keeps the walk in humidor in his retail cigar store at 72 percent. So I'm not sure that 70 percent is some sort of maximum that cannot be exceeded.
This again is more conflicting information. If 84 percent is too high, how soon will I be able to tell what are the symptoms? I started this last Saturday and checked a couple of cigars yesterday. They looked fine. I read somewhere that cigar humidity only changes 1 percent to 2 percent a day.


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## garublador (Jun 5, 2014)

My understanding is that relative humidity is what's important and absolute humidity doesn't really matter. Here's the post that convinced me of that:

http://www.cigarforums.net/forums/v...8436-temperature-vs-humidity.html#post4078542


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## Carolus Rex (Jun 19, 2015)

My B&M keeps their store at 65%. We know the big online retailers over humidify to compensate for shipping. I use 69% bovedas in my desktops and have had burn issues, but only with my sticks that come from online. My B&M sticks always burn fine. So at least here in Dallas I know if I keep my RH around 65% everything should be awesome.


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## stevetimko (May 9, 2015)

Okay, so I've been storing cigars at 58 degrees and 84 percent relative humidity since last July., I've been pulling them out and I can report that they are smoking just fine, as far as I can tell. I smoked one after letting it set in a regular humidor for two weeks and it was still soft and too tight of a draw. After three weeks they were fine.
Most of these were yard gars described in my attempts to buy cigars through the board last year. So it would be hard to say how much the flavor was affected, since they weren't great cigars to begin with. But they also include the George Rico American Puro and some nice Villiger that are smoking great. The Rico have fire-cured Kentucky tobacco and that smoky flavor survived the wine locker storage. That's a good testament.
Your mileage may vary if you do it. I would suggest experimenting with lesser cigars first before trying irreplaceable Habanos. But keeping my cigars at 58 degrees in a Lock and Lock food-grade storage container worked for me.


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## UBC03 (Nov 18, 2015)

84% and they stay lit? That is definitely the other end of the spectrum. 
Don't think I would go that route, but to each his own. .


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## stevetimko (May 9, 2015)

I give them at least three weeks in a regular humidor to let them recover.


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## UBC03 (Nov 18, 2015)

As a rule of thumb they acclimate about 1 rh% per week. .so at best they're still around 80%..
just proves how resilient cigars actually are. I would of figured mold or at least a few split wrappers


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## MDinius (Apr 13, 2016)

Great thread.

I set up a tupperdor at 70%rh bovedas and have been finding the cigars harder to draw and needing lots of touch ups. The temperature holds right around 67-69 degrees. The sticks from my B&M smoke much better than the ones I'm resting. I'm currently setting up a second tupperdor with 65% boveda and am excited to see the difference. Hoping the drop to 65rh is all the difference.


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## UBC03 (Nov 18, 2015)

MDinius said:


> Great thread.
> 
> I set up a tupperdor at 70%rh bovedas and have been finding the cigars harder to draw and needing lots of touch ups. The temperature holds right around 67-69 degrees. The sticks from my B&M smoke much better than the ones I'm resting. I'm currently setting up a second tupperdor with 65% boveda and am excited to see the difference. Hoping the drop to 65rh is all the difference.


 I Think you'll find it better. Your draw should definitely improve. I try to run at 63 - 65. Can't wait to hear the results from your experiment.


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## stevetimko (May 9, 2015)

UBC03 said:


> As a rule of thumb they acclimate about 1 rh% per week. .so at best they're still around 80%..
> just proves how resilient cigars actually are. I would of figured mold or at least a few split wrappers


I've heard 1 to 2 percentage points a day. If it was one percentage point a week it would take a month to go from 70 percent to 65 percent.


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## UBC03 (Nov 18, 2015)

stevetimko said:


> I've heard 1 to 2 percentage points a day. If it was one percentage point a week it would take a month to go from 70 percent to 65 percent.


Right. .I let my orders sit minimum 3 months,but try for 6. I figure 10 weeks to get to around 63% since they're usually shipped 70+%. Then a month for them to settle into that rh.


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## MDinius (Apr 13, 2016)

UBC03 said:


> I Think you'll find it better. Your draw should definitely improve. I try to run at 63 - 65. Can't wait to hear the results from your experiment.


Well so far the experiment is off to a rough start. Got the klip it 7L and 2 SC trays. I haven't shaved down the second tray yet so I just put the single tray in. Put a shot glass of distilled water in it over night just to mildly season the SC while I was calibrating the new hygrometer. 24 hours later put the hygrometer in and it read 72 (calibrated to 74 with boveda kit). Since my bovedas are brand new, I figured they couldn't absorb all the way down to 65, so I measured the room rh to see if I could just leave it out overnight. Room rh is hovering around 72%. So I went to the store and picked up some crystal KL. Filled a bowl full of the KL and left I overnight. Hygrometer is still reading 69% rh. I'm going to leave it overnight again, but I'm starting to think I have a bad seal on the Klip It or the KL isn't absorbing anything since it's saturated to 70%ish rh.


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## Bird-Dog (Oct 16, 2009)

MDinius said:


> Well so far the experiment is off to a rough start. Got the klip it 7L and 2 SC trays. I haven't shaved down the second tray yet so I just put the single tray in. Put a shot glass of distilled water in it over night just to mildly season the SC while I was calibrating the new hygrometer. 24 hours later put the hygrometer in and it read 72 (calibrated to 74 with boveda kit). Since my bovedas are brand new, I figured they couldn't absorb all the way down to 65, so I measured the room rh to see if I could just leave it out overnight. Room rh is hovering around 72%. So I went to the store and picked up some crystal KL. Filled a bowl full of the KL and left I overnight. Hygrometer is still reading 69% rh. I'm going to leave it overnight again, but I'm starting to think I have a bad seal on the Klip It or the KL isn't absorbing anything since it's saturated to 70%ish rh.


Give it time. 24 hours is not enough for the SC to reach equilibrium. Ideally, leave the shot glass of DW in there a few days, perhaps a week. Then transition to Bovedas and give it another few days to stabilize.

As for the tray fit, did you try putting them both in and closing it up? Mine stick up about 1/4" above the rim when double stacked. But, the top is raised enough that it fits on and seals just fine without shaving the trays.


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## MDinius (Apr 13, 2016)

curmudgeonista said:


> Give it time. 24 hours is not enough for the SC to reach equilibrium. Ideally, leave the shot glass of DW in there a few days, perhaps a week. Then transition to Bovedas and give it another few days to stabilize.


What I think happened is that I left the SC trays put on the open for a few days and they reached equilibrium at the room rh near 70%. Then I stuck the shot glass in there and pushed the setup to 75% without thinking about the SC acclimation to the rooms rh. Now I'm finding it extremely difficult to bring the rh back down, as I was going for a 65% setup. I'm on hour 12 of kitty litter and it's dropped maybe 1% (69 rh to 68 rh) and is just hanging near the rooms rh. I popped a few sticks that have hung out at 69rh for a few weeks into the Klip It with just KL in there. The rh rose from 68 to 69 (as expected with the new sticks) and I'm going to wait and see if the rh drops over 24 hours to see if the KL is actually working.



curmudgeonista said:


> As for the tray fit, did you try putting them both in and closing it up? Mine stick up about 1/4" above the rim when double stacked. But, the top is raised enough that it fits on and seals just fine without shaving the trays.


Yes, I tried fitting both and I can snap 3 sides but can't get the 4th side. Tried moving the trays 180° each way to see if one fit may work, but still couldn't get all 4 sides snapped.


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## UBC03 (Nov 18, 2015)

MDinius said:


> What I think happened is that I left the SC trays put on the open for a few days and they reached equilibrium at the room rh near 70%. Then I stuck the shot glass in there and pushed the setup to 75% without thinking about the SC acclimation to the rooms rh. Now I'm finding it extremely difficult to bring the rh back down, as I was going for a 65% setup. I'm on hour 12 of kitty litter and it's dropped maybe 1% (69 rh to 68 rh) and is just hanging near the rooms rh. I popped a few sticks that have hung out at 69rh for a few weeks into the Klip It with just KL in there. The rh rose from 68 to 69 (as expected with the new sticks) and I'm going to wait and see if the rh drops over 24 hours to see if the KL is actually working.
> 
> Yes, I tried fitting both and I can snap 3 sides but can't get the 4th side. Tried moving the trays 180° each way to see if one fit may work, but still couldn't get all 4 sides snapped.


Try taking the KL out and drying it or replace it with new kl. You can dry it with a dryer. It can only soak up so much rh per pound.


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## Grey Goose (May 24, 2016)

Strictly speaking storing your cigars @ 58 degrees is not a problem in terms of maintaining the quality and condition of your sticks, however the one draw back is if you were trying to keep them longer term the flavors will not marry as well, they will not mature, mellow, or develop the complex character of a great smoke, so bottom line is the sticks will not age as nicely at that lower temperature.


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## Cigary (Oct 19, 2007)

Cigar Guru said:


> Wait. Is it just me or is rh being described completely out of context here?
> 
> rh is RELATIVE Humidity. Meaning relative to temperature. So 70% rh at 50 degrees is the same as 70% rh at 80 degrees. Meaning there is 70% moisture in the environment at what ever temperature. 65% rh at 50 degrees is the same with 65% rh at 80 degrees.
> 
> ...


Relative Humidity. ...the key to maintaining cigars in a proper environment. Playing with the numbers of Temps/RH is going to incur burn issues even if your temp is 84 and humidity is 58. You will sacrifice the tobacco quality no matter how you look at it or persuade yourself through hypnosis.


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## krnhecty (Dec 2, 2015)

after reading every single post i am tempted to switch out my 70rh beads for 65 ....ughhhhh!!!


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## Grey Goose (May 24, 2016)

The 65% HI beads seem to work best for me in Santa Barbara, and the right KL is the Ultra Pet Litter pearls IMO, they are not the hard jagged crystals like the ExquisiCat with the blue in it, but rather the same as the HI beads, white/clear spheres of silica filled gel, and they do a great job, dare I say an equitable job as the HI product... (actually I suspect it is the same product) lol

If dough is tight you might spend the $25 on 7 lbs of the aforementioned KL, you may be pleasantly surprised. ;-)

Good luck BOTL.


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## stevetimko (May 9, 2015)

Just to reiterate, I started smoking this latest batch of cigars I pulled out of wine locker storage after 3 1/2 weeks in a regular humidor. They're smoking fine. The Villiger Trills are great. I smoked a box-pressed Romeo Y Julietta that was the best version of that brand I've ever tried.


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