# might as well try...



## anthony d (May 10, 2014)

Ok, so after reading the other thread, I am just gonna put it out there and see what happens.

Are there any veteran cc smokers who will help me start my cc journey? I am lost at sea here...

Mods, if this is wrong to do, I apologize and feel free to delete the thread. Members, if you don't want to or can't discuss it openly, PM's are fine with me.

I have yet to try a cc, and want to.

Thanks!


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## TonyBrooklyn (Jan 28, 2010)

You can P.m any FOG and ask for help.
This has been always allowed here.
The problem has been that many old timers get turned off to the fact that.
Most don't want to get to know anyone.
They invest nothing in the Habanos section then walk away with the golden key to the crapper.
Not even a thank you as they close the door.
Then there are many that ask for help you give it to them.
Then unfortunately you are 2nd guessed the whole way.
Are they real someone told me they look fake,Why are they taking so long to come, Someone told me they are 2nds ETC ETC ETC the list is endless.
So many FOGs and with good reason got turned off to the whole process.
Thats why discussing out in the open would be the best thing for all concerned IMHO.


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## anthony d (May 10, 2014)

I can understand that completely...

I have nothing to invest yet since I am still uneducated in the real world experience of cc's. I have read reviews, and a lot of threads in this forum about them, trying to learn what I can on my own before asking for help, but reading only takes you so far.

One of the FOG's has already PM'd me and has started to lead me in the right direction, which I appreciate greatly...


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## asmartbull (Aug 16, 2009)

TonyBrooklyn said:


> You can P.m any FOG and ask for help.
> This has been always allowed here.
> The problem has been that many old timers get turned off to the fact that.
> Most don't want to get to know anyone.
> ...


T 
You have solid points....speaking only for myself, I can't tell you how many PM'S I get from guys I don't know......never getting a note of introduction or friend request and seeing little activity from them in this section if the forum, asking for my best vendors.
These request often start with "dude" and seldom end with thanks.
Manners count.
That said, I can't imagine a fog shutting down anyone who sends a respectful note from someone who has put in a little effort on the front end...


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## TonyBrooklyn (Jan 28, 2010)

asmartbull said:


> T
> You have solid points....speaking only for myself, I can't tell you how many PM'S I get from guys I don't know......never getting a note of introduction or friend request and seeing little activity from them in this section if the forum, asking for my best vendors.
> These request often start with "dude" and seldom end with thanks.
> Manners count.
> That said, I can't imagine a fog shutting down anyone who sends a respectful note from someone who has put in a little effort on the front end...


You know i met a couple of guys over the years.
Some i still call my friends today.
But some had such a sense of entitlement and lack of manners.
Well i guess grandma was right.
"Sometimes the best words are the ones that don't come out of our mouths"


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## Rock31 (Sep 30, 2010)

TonyBrooklyn said:


> You know i met a couple of guys over the years.
> Some i still call my friends today.
> But some had such a sense of entitlement and lack of manners.
> Well i guess grandma was right.
> "Sometimes the best words are the ones that don't come out of our mouths"


I replied to three PMs when a couple years back, not one said hello and only one said thank you.

I think I have ignored PMs inquiring about Habanos on here ever since.


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## madmarvcr (Jun 1, 2013)

​When I get asked about CC's, I provide two sites
A price comparison site of different vendors
And a review site of different vendors
From there I believe a person can make an informed decision.
I don't provide any specifics on sites I may or may not have used


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## MDSPHOTO (Sep 10, 2013)

asmartbull said:


> T
> You have solid points....speaking only for myself, I can't tell you how many PM'S I get from guys I don't know......never getting a note of introduction or friend request and seeing little activity from them in this section if the forum, asking for my best vendors.
> These request often start with "dude" and seldom end with thanks.
> Manners count.
> That said, I can't imagine a fog shutting down anyone who sends a respectful note from someone who has put in a little effort on the front end...


Believe it. I was rebuffed by a fog when simply and respectfully asking him to clarify a flavor profile in a CC review he did.


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## Rock31 (Sep 30, 2010)

Everyone here is willing to help, but be polite and put in some of your own time to do some research here


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## bpegler (Mar 30, 2006)

Respect and courtesy go a long way...


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## Tgs679 (Mar 2, 2014)

I am in the same boat as anthony d. I could use some guidance.


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## brimy623 (May 25, 2013)

@anthony d
Glad that you found someone to help you out.
@TonyBrooklyn @asmartbull @bpegler @madmarvcr @Rock31

I've noticed most of you around the forum & respect/appreciate the advice given to a thread or two which I've post.

In my short time being part of the Puff community I've noticed the sense of entitlement, lack of courtesy, misplaced sarcasm and ill attempts at humor (maybe I just don't get it). And it doesn't seem like some want to take the time to get to "know", get a feel for someone. I've only been here for a year so I can imagine what you folks have seen in your tenure.

For myself, the lack of participation has been because of lack of experience/exposure/availability of the product. But now that I look at it, I should be doing here as I do in the NC what are you smoking, what's your latest NC purchase; asking the opinion of the smoke and then when the opportunity presents itself I will have "something for comparison", build a "to try list".


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## thebigk (Jan 16, 2013)

This is what is driving me away from Puff over the summer I must have gotten 20 to 30 PM's about vendors and I am more then willing to help but most that I have help have drop of the face of the earth
so now this is what they get

If you are looking for a good vendor do your homework 
Check a ton of sites compare prices don't go with the cheapest and don't go with the highest
Make sure they guarantee shipping to the US 
After you have found a couple sites send them Emails with a few basic questions Do they guarantee do they inspect do they ship with ox codes intact
And if they email you back ask a few more questions do they run sales and then ask them what they think is you best option if you are looking at a couple boxes 
If they are willing to answer your questions you should have a good idea if they will be a good vendor and then place a small order if that goes well then the door is open

This is how I got my start I did get a few pointers from some FOG's and have thanked them and still talk to them today that almost two years ago


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## JCubed (Mar 5, 2014)

thebigk said:


> This is what is driving me away from Puff over the summer I must have gotten 20 to 30 PM's about vendors and I am more then willing to help but most that I have help have drop of the face of the earth
> so now this is what they get


I definitely could see how people fishing for info and then abandoning can be frustrating. However, this isn't the case for all noobs. Just like not all FOGs are grumpy or bitter.



thebigk said:


> If you are looking for a good vendor do your homework
> Check a ton of sites compare prices don't go with the cheapest and don't go with the highest
> Make sure they guarantee shipping to the US
> After you have found a couple sites send them Emails with a few basic questions Do they guarantee do they inspect do they ship with ox codes intact
> ...


Personally, my research is better when it's based on first-hand experiences of trusted guys who have been around the block. I care way more about the experiences you FOGs have had than I do about what a vendor says about themself on their own site. FOGs are way more objective.

Sorry crappy dudes have burned most of you wiser guys, but we're not all crappy.

The original sentiment of the OP was that a little more transparency would do a lot to bridge the gap between clueless noobs and burned FOGs. I agree with it wholehartedly.


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## thebigk (Jan 16, 2013)

@JCubed

The ones I am most willing to help are the ones that come to me that have done there homework already have a couple vendors in mind but just want a little peace of mind before they order
The ones I will not help are the ones that have done nothing to help themselves and just ask So what vendor do you use They are the ones I give the overpriced vendor info to still good vendors but they charge $50 to $100 more then my go to vendors do


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## SeanTheEvans (Dec 13, 2013)

don't wanna be the stick in the mud, but it's *not* that hard guys...

Do your research, be prepared to place your first order, then just PM someone you have some kind of relationship with asking if you're walking into a black hole or heaven's gates. If they don't answer or reply in anger, try someone else.

I feel like these conversations are just going round and around. Instead of talking about why this or that does or doesn't work, how about we just forge some relationships, make a connection, and work it out from there.

I mean, how long is a long wait? Most posters looking for CCs have been on Puff less than a year. Is that sooooo long a wait? Funny thing is I've had sources since about 6mo in, but haven't really used them. Things kind of fell into my lap when I became a regular face around here, on both sides of the forum.

So there. and if you have any questions, I'm no FOG nor expert, but I'll be friendly in my replies. I won't straight up give you any vendors though. So consider a new resource found. If you read just this thread and the other one about changes (maybe even that big sticky about CC passes/trades that was a bit back) you'll have a long list of helpful brothers who have already showed their support for newcomers.

and if you're too impatient for that... start a thread like this. 
If you're not a dick, people will respond and help you. 
If you only hear echos of your own voice, try not to be such a dick about things.


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## anthony d (May 10, 2014)

SeanTheEvans said:


> don't wanna be the stick in the mud, but it's *not* that hard guys...
> 
> Do your research, be prepared to place your first order, then just PM someone you have some kind of relationship with asking if you're walking into a black hole or heaven's gates. If they don't answer or reply in anger, try someone else.
> 
> ...


Glad I'm not a dick, then I would be an impatient dick I guess! Sorry if this thread bothered you, but I have spent a good amount of time reading and reading, but when it comes to things like this, I am not gonna take any chances on just picking a vendor I found, and hoping it is a reputable one, when a FOG can just lead me in the direction of a reputable vendor. I have given away free stuff to BOTL in the nc sections, have helped when I could in there as well, so I hope that has begun to establish my reputation on here so that FOGs are willing to help me, which a few of them already have.

I find it odd though that we call ourselves BOTL, but one guy is saying he won't give a reputable vendors name to someone looking for help, and another is saying he will give out an overpriced vendor to someone. That seems wrong to me, but hey, I am still new here.

Again, sorry if this thread offended or bothered anyone.


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## piperdown (Jul 19, 2009)

It's been said but here is what I did at the advice of others.
I asked questions in the Habano forums getting as much advice as a I could. I thanked them in the thread and by pm. I spent time here. 
Then when I had done my homework, narrowed down vendors and choices, pm'd someone. Not with a text like abrupt message but full paragraphs on what I was planning on doing and asked if it made sense. It worked. Then I followed up with a thank you when they replied and again when the package came in.

It's not that hard.


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## TonyBrooklyn (Jan 28, 2010)

I wonder what most looking to buy Habanos today would have did back in the day when most of us FOG's started. It was strictly a referral program. No banners no sales no one to ask.Damn there was no internet. It was strictly trust gained over long periods of time. Friendships made that lasted a life time. Orders where placed over the phone or by fax. And if a couple of weeks went by. And you had the nerve to say Hey wheres my package. Well you wanna talk about a blacklist LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## bpegler (Mar 30, 2006)

TonyBrooklyn said:


> I wonder what most looking to buy Habanos today would have did back in the day when most of us FOG's started. It was strictly a referral program. No banners no sales no one to ask.Damn there was no internet. It was strictly trust gained over long periods of time. Friendships made that lasted a life time. Orders where placed over the phone or by fax. And if a couple of weeks went by. And you had the nerve to say Hey wheres my package. Well you wanna talk about a blacklist LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Remember faxing orders and even Credit cards? Different world then.

Nothing was guaranteed...


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## TonyBrooklyn (Jan 28, 2010)

bpegler said:


> Remember faxing orders and even Credit cards? Different world then.
> 
> Nothing was guaranteed...


Yes Bob that was really a different world. Things where different, Men made deals on handshakes and kept their word.
Thank you ,yes sir ,good morning mam ,etc. Were phrases part of everyone's vocabulary.


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## dvickery (Jan 1, 2000)

thank you anthony for having the "grit/cojones" to start this thread ... i would like to help but all my "sources" are in havana and you have to walk into the store in order to buy .

at least this is a better idea than cluttering up the " how can we improve the habanos-discussion" forum with this threads intent .

derrek


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## madmarvcr (Jun 1, 2013)

In the 90's, I remember weekend road trips to Detroit and crossing in to Windsor. Stopped doing that after 9/11


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## Lrbergin (Jun 14, 2012)

thebigk said:


> @JCubed
> 
> The ones I am most willing to help are the ones that come to me that have done there homework already have a couple vendors in mind but just want a little peace of mind before they order
> The ones I will not help are the ones that have done nothing to help themselves and just ask So what vendor do you use They are the ones I give the overpriced vendor info to still good vendors but they charge $50 to $100 more then my go to vendors do


Same here. I'm willing to help but be polite and put forth a little effort. We have all been been a noob before. The reason I'm not there any more is because I did my own research first and treated the people that helped me with respect.


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## JCubed (Mar 5, 2014)

I could be wrong, but I'm not sure anyone is saying or implying that any member here (whether he/she holds the Secret of the CC or not) should not be treated politely or respectfully. That's just a human issue, not a CC issue. And if anyone is prematurely being a jerk, noob or FOG, that's not okay.

But the "I'll kinda maybe wink if you're doing it right maybe" mentality is part of what keeps the uninformed away, which was the original intent of the threads: how to make this section more active (not how to keep things dark and scary like always).

We don't know where to start. We don't know what "research" is okay and what is BS and what could be downright scams. We barely know what is and is not okay to type in this forum, since a lot of scolding that is done is more on the shaming side and less on the teaching side. I'm not sure why all the secrecy, and that's not sarcasm. I'm literally not sure. I get why legality is very touchy, but when it comes to PMs...?

Patience on all sides is great. Explanations are great. Shame and bitterness (from both noobs and FOGs) are not, unless your mission is to not learn/teach/help.

[I apologize to anyone who's offended. No disrespect to any new or old guys is intended. ALWAYS feel free to PM me any issues you have with me.]


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## UTKhodgy (Jan 4, 2012)

thebigk said:


> @JCubed
> 
> The ones I am most willing to help are the ones *that come to me that have done there homework already have a couple vendors in mind but just want a little peace of mind before they order*
> The ones I will not help are the ones that have done nothing to help themselves and just ask So what vendor do you use They are the ones I give the overpriced vendor info to still good vendors but they charge $50 to $100 more then my go to vendors do


Some one not you in this thread may have helped this here guy doing that there.


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## thebigk (Jan 16, 2013)

So the homework 

That crap about don't know we're to start 
Go to your search page and type in were to buy Cuban cigars you will get a whole page of name 
And then take a look at there page read there info see were their located if it's an odd country then pass most are in the same area 
After you find a couple now look for reviews see what people say about them and your list will be smaller after that try to email a few if you hear nothing back then they don't want your business 

Buy then you should only have one or two then PM someone 

The Homework was half the fun of my first order 

It's not that hard we all know how to use a search engine


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## OnePyroTec (Dec 11, 1997)

TonyBrooklyn said:


> I wonder what most looking to buy Habanos today would have did back in the day when most of us FOG's started. It was strictly a referral program. No banners no sales no one to ask.Damn there was no internet. It was strictly trust gained over long periods of time. Friendships made that lasted a life time. Orders where placed over the phone or by fax. And if a couple of weeks went by. And you had the nerve to say Hey wheres my package. Well you wanna talk about a blacklist LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


:amen: Those were the days!


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## OnePyroTec (Dec 11, 1997)

anthony d said:


> Ok, so after reading the other thread, I am just gonna put it out there and see what happens.
> 
> Are there any veteran cc smokers who will help me start my cc journey? I am lost at sea here...
> 
> ...


Anthony, if you haven't done it yet, start going to open invitation HERFs just to introduce yourself. If need be, hop a flight across the country. Nothing ventured nothing gained. A whole new world will open up to you in person vs. what you will learn through PM's not to mention the life long friends you can make.


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## anthony d (May 10, 2014)

OnePyroTec said:


> Anthony, if you haven't done it yet, start going to open invitation HERFs just to introduce yourself. If need be, hop a flight across the country. Nothing ventured nothing gained. A whole new world will open up to you in person vs. what you will learn through PM's not to mention the life long friends you can make.


Absolutely!!! I would love to meet up with some people, and considering I am only a half hour outside of NYC, it shouldn't be too hard to find some fellow puffers.


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## Bernardini (Nov 14, 2013)

thebigk said:


> So the homework
> 
> That crap about don't know we're to start
> Go to your search page and type in were to buy Cuban cigars you will get a whole page of name
> ...


This is exactly how I got involved. I skipped the PM part as after research I felt very confident about who was legit. Made a small test order, everything was perfect, and went on from there...


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## Merovius (Sep 11, 2013)

TonyBrooklyn said:


> You can P.m any FOG and ask for help.
> This has been always allowed here.
> The problem has been that many old timers get turned off to the fact that.
> Most don't want to get to know anyone.
> ...


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## ejgarnut (Sep 28, 2009)

anthony d said:


> I find it odd though that we call ourselves BOTL, but one guy is saying he won't give a reputable vendors name to someone looking for help, and another is saying he will give out an overpriced vendor to someone. That seems wrong to me, but hey, I am still new here.


It shouldnt seem wrong because youre new here, it should seem wrong because _it is_ wrong. I have seen you around the board & believe you have made positive contributions here. I would be glad to give you information to point you in the right direction, but my experience on the cc side of cigars is almost non-existant.

As has been said before, courtesy & politeness is big, and for some reason it is especially so in this part of the forum...








.

No disrespect meant to anyone...like i need to wake up with a horses head in my bed lol...



JCubed said:


> I could be wrong, but I'm not sure anyone is saying or implying that any member here (whether he/she holds the Secret of the CC or not) should not be treated politely or respectfully. That's just a human issue, not a CC issue. And if anyone is prematurely being a jerk, noob or FOG, that's not okay.
> 
> But the "I'll kinda maybe wink if you're doing it right maybe" mentality is part of what keeps the uninformed away, which was the original intent of the threads: how to make this section more active (not how to keep things dark and scary like always).
> 
> ...


Well said Joshua


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## Tobias Lutz (Feb 18, 2013)

JCubed said:


> We don't know where to start. We don't know what "research" is okay and what is BS and what could be downright scams


I've got to completely agree with Eric (below) on this one. People act like this is extremely complicated. I'm sure most on this board have bought cars, houses, etc.- we're talking about a box of cigars here. I'm not trying to sound obnoxious, and I generally respond to PMs requesting source info (as long as there is more to the message than "who you buy from?") but let's get real- it's one of the smallest investments you'll ever make and the interwebs are chock full of everything you need to know. To me, homework is at the very minimum, Google and bring me the names of who you're considering- perhaps why you like them better than other sites you saw...



thebigk said:


> So the homework
> 
> That crap about don't know we're to start
> Go to your search page and type in were to buy Cuban cigars you will get a whole page of name
> ...





Bernardini said:


> This is exactly how I got involved. I skipped the PM part as after research I felt very confident about who was legit. Made a small test order, everything was perfect, and went on from there...


+1, I didn't reach out via PM until I was looking for vendors that took a particular form of payment, or offered a particular cigar/quantity.

Like I said, I don't mind helping guys out but NO ONE is _entitled_ to know who I buy from- just because you're on this site doesn't mean you are not a complete stranger- for the love of God, just say "hey, how's it goin'" to someone before you hit them up for something- offer a little "give" instead of being all "take"


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## JCubed (Mar 5, 2014)

Okay, so I get the "use the search function" mentality. Yes, I know how to use Google. I'm sure every other noobie here can too. I am not lazy.

What I do not understand is why research can't begin HERE. A cigar forum. My initial cigar research led here. BOTLs here taught me 95% of what I currently know. Why the sudden information block when it comes to CCs?

Mentioning sources on an open forum possibly/probably isn't worth the trouble. That's an obvious issue. They're illegal. I get it.

But why the instant anger/frustration/sour-face about PMing? Why is it a Federal offense to share some sources and feedback? Do the vendors not want the business? Is there a limited supply, so you don't want to share? Are you afraid I'll tattle? I honestly don't understand, but would like to.

I don't remember running into all of the formalities when asking about NCs. And yeah, there were a few "search function, dummy!" responses, but for the most part, people were understanding, helpful, patient, and forgiving.

Here it seems like the inverse. Everyone seems afraid/mad.

I am not insulting anyone. I am saying that I literally don't understand the rapid hostility, and I would like someone to CIVILY share with me why it's like that. Because I don't know. I would like to.


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## Joe Bonzo (Dec 20, 2013)

As someone who fairly recently got into cigars, both in general and the dark side of the hobby, I remember how nervous and excited I was thinking about taking the plunge. Now it all seems a bit blown out of proportion compared to how easy it was...but honestly that's part of what made it so much fun. I lurked a lot, read a lot, and asked a few questions here and there. I participated in some of the noob passes and was fortunate enough to have been gifted a few CCs to wet my whistle. When the time came and I wanted to make the jump I had a couple friends who I felt comfortable enough to talk to about vendors and ordering and they couldn't have been more polite and helpful. 

I do tend to keep to myself, and although I spend a lot of time reading here I don't rack up many posts. I hope that doesn't come off as being someone who just joined up for the info and doesn't contribute. Pretty much all the members in this section have been helpful and friendly and I thank you all for the opportunities. To anybody new looking to get started, I'm always open to questions (though I'll freely admit I don't have many answers!), and I think you'll find that people are more helpful than maybe they want to admit publicly...because I'm sure it's annoying to get bombarded with rude messages from people you don't even know.

Just my 2 cents...back to lurking


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## Kasanova King (Jun 8, 2014)

Wow, I never realized how sensitive of a topic this is. I have yet to smoke a Habano myself, but I have a couple stashed away for a special occasion. I also have a few on the way from a friend who _legally_ purchased a few for me while vacationing in Europe.

That being said, I look forward to eventually getting more involved on this side of the forum.


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## MDSPHOTO (Sep 10, 2013)

Kasanova King said:


> Wow, I never realized how sensitive of a topic this is. I have yet to smoke a Habano myself, but I have a couple stashed away for a special occasion. I also have a few on the way from a friend who _legally_ purchased a few for me while vacationing in Europe.
> 
> That being said, I look forward to eventually getting more involved on this side of the forum.


If your friend is an American citizen he cannot "legally" purchase CC's anywhere.


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## Kasanova King (Jun 8, 2014)

MDSPHOTO said:


> If your friend is an American citizen he cannot "legally" purchase CC's anywhere.


He's actually a citizen of another country...so not sure how that works out.


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## Damselnotindistress (Aug 7, 2011)

What I always recommend is that you go to Cigarinspector.com. That site features reviews from patrons & customers' experience with various shops AND cigars. It's an invaluable resource on what people have experienced in their purchases and attempted purchases of "forbidden fruit", and so on. Then you can click on the Index and find nearly all cigars NC and CC and the tasting ratings. I've got a few reviews in there about my experiences with various cigar shops and how reliable they are, and my own reviews of various smokes as well. Try it. You won't be disappointed. My :2


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## anthony d (May 10, 2014)

Damselnotindistress said:


> What I always recommend is that you go to Cigarinspector.com. That site features reviews from patrons & customers' experience with various shops AND cigars. It's an invaluable resource on what people have experienced in their purchases and attempted purchases of "forbidden fruit", and so on. Then you can click on the Index and find nearly all cigars NC and CC and the tasting ratings. I've got a few reviews in there about my experiences with various cigar shops and how reliable they are, and my own reviews of various smokes as well. Try it. You won't be disappointed. My :2


Thanks! I have heard about that site on more than a few occasions, and have checked it out. Looks to be a very good resource like you say... I am pretty confident as to where I will acquire, so again, thanks for everyone's help!


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## madmarvcr (Jun 1, 2013)

Also do a google search "Cuban cigar ripoff". The will take you to a general purpose site ripoffreport.com
Some valuable information on scam sites


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## CeeGar (Feb 19, 2007)

A lot of good info being passed around this forum lately. Procuring the forbidden fruit is not that difficult in the internet age. It just takes a little time to research...then make the best decision you can with the info you have. As for dealing with folks that have been around here a while, a lot of us just came from a different era and still cling to some of the "old" ways. Things happened at a much slower pace. We are all guilty of succumbing to the instant gratification mentality of today, in one way or another. It just happens. But...and I've said this before, some things never go out of style. A bit of manners, decorum, respect....all those things still carry a lot of weight. It worked for those that went before us and still works today.


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