# Young People and Cigars.



## fanman1 (Sep 6, 2010)

What do you feel is an apropriate age for a cigar smoker. I ask this because I am young for the sport and often feel juged whever I go into a b&m. It seems like nobody gives a crap if people my age are smoking cigarettes or hookah (ar any of the other strange things we find to smoke) but when it comes to cigars I feel like older people look at us younger people funny. While us young people love to take part in wild and crazy vices it is cetianly not like they are relaxing. Usually I try not to care what older people think of me smoking cigars but latly its been grinding on me quite a bit. So I ask you older folks; Does it bother you wen you see a younger person smoking a cigar? Are those judging looks that I feel legitamate? Or is it just years of anti tobacco propaganda simmering in my subconcious letting of guilt. And younger folks do you see where I am coming from and do you have any personal expireiences?


One of my least favorite things when buying cigars from a real store is when they stare at my id for like 20 seconds trying to do the math when they could just look at the sgin they have posted with the minimum age for buying tobacco and see that the birth year on my id is a smaller number than the one on the sgin. It dosent take that long.


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## tpharkman (Feb 20, 2010)

If it makes you feel any better I am 40 years old with enough grey hairs to notice and I still have people stare at my ID. One thing life has shown me is that there are pricks everywhere a person goes to buy anything or experience anything. 

I can either let them discourage me or I can keep on keeping on and enjoying life to its fullest. Don't let it grind on you. Maybe they are just not good with numbers...lol!! In this world and with our technology, even the guy running the register can be terrible at math and still get the job.


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## horseshoe (May 29, 2011)

You're not alone. I got "the look" from the guy behind the counter at our local B&M. He used to follow me into the humidor and just stand there staring at me while I browsed, which he didn't do with older patrons.


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## fivespdcat (Nov 16, 2010)

As far as your main question, does it bother me? Hell no, why would someone else doing something bother me at all. I'm not too old (30) but why should they care, you're doing it and not bothering them. If they do they got bigger problems than some 'kid' smoking a cigar!


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## Rock31 (Sep 30, 2010)

I'm bald and fat so I don't get my ID checked anymore


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## Zogg (Aug 31, 2010)

im 21, and some B&M's are friendly and professional (my local one, luckily!) and in others people are pretty mean/condescending to younger people, including the dreaded "watching you while you browse" thing.

I get the staring at the ID thing all the time now, because of a few reasons
A. its out of state. I still have a MA ID even though i live in NH (student thing)
B. I have a huge beard on my ID, since i turned 21 during the playoffs this year and did the grow a beard for charity thing, so I look way older. I have since shaved and look completely different.
C. the MA licence has a ton of weird holograms and crap that makes it almost look fake *facepalm*
D. I usually browse FOREVER before choosing something.. haha


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## horseshoe (May 29, 2011)

Zogg said:


> im 21, and some B&M's are friendly and professional (my local one, luckily!) and in others people are pretty mean/condescending to younger people, including the dreaded "watching you while you browse" thing.
> 
> I get the staring at the ID thing all the time now, because of a few reasons
> A. its out of state. I still have a MA ID even though i live in NH (student thing)
> ...


Maybe that was my problem! Although, I still walk around a humidor the size of an average household bathroom for 25 minutes looking at everything 10 times before choosing...


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## Zogg (Aug 31, 2010)

horseshoe said:


> Maybe that was my problem! Although, I still walk around a humidor the size of an average household bathroom for 25 minutes looking at everything 10 times before choosing...


i was in castros back room in manchester NH with 4 people in the walk in humidor. is pent nearly 40 minutes (with zybert, another guy who didnt smoke, and my girlfriend) looking at everything and not ONCE did anyone tell me to hurry up, not be a stupid teenager, etc etc. the guy just popped in for like 2 seconds about 2 minutes in and said "if you need help finding anything lemme know" and popped back out to tend to other customers. thats how it should be!


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## horseshoe (May 29, 2011)

Zogg said:


> i was in castros back room in manchester NH with 4 people in the walk in humidor. is pent nearly 40 minutes (with zybert, another guy who didnt smoke, and my girlfriend) looking at everything and not ONCE did anyone tell me to hurry up, not be a stupid teenager, etc etc. the guy just popped in for like 2 seconds about 2 minutes in and said "if you need help finding anything lemme know" and popped back out to tend to other customers. thats how it should be!


Agreed! That's the way my local B&M is now, but I had to spend a lot of money in there before they got to be that way.

I'm not exactly a teenager either...Even the beard is showing a bit of grey nowadays...


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## thegoldenmackid (Mar 16, 2010)

It's oddly been a while since I got carded.


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## Cigar Noob (May 22, 2011)

According to Occam's Razor... "simpler explanations are, other things being equal, generally better than more complex ones"

In one hand we have anti-tobacco brainwashing and age descrimination....
and in the other we have that the guy is simply a dick.

My vote is that these guys are just dicks.


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## falconman515 (Jul 10, 2011)

Being 33 I don't get the look to much but I do know what you mean about the looks ... I have been in a place where I got the look cause really it was mostly 50+ gentleman in there and they looked at me as if I wasn't sophisticated enough to be in there with them.

Some shops are open arms and let you be and treat you like anyone else.

But I do know what you mean and if it happens ... Well screw them and they don't need my business and I just move on to the next.


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## Macke (Aug 20, 2011)

I'm only 18 and look it so I get carded everywhere, apart from that though the guy at the only B&M I know of in Vancouver is good people. He does seem a little suspicious, yet still manages to be kind about it. I suppose it's only a little normal because of how often teenagers try to be "cool" and rip stuff off... Stupid no-good kids ruining everything for the rest of us. 

As for smoking them though, there's always going to be the total anti-tobacco people, and then those that DON'T attempt to crucify others for doing what they want so I try to ignore the people that stare. It happened at lunch today a couple of older folks (looked like early-mid 70s) kept staring at me, but never said anything!


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## jbgd825 (Aug 26, 2011)

The B&Ms I frequent most all have guys my age working there (I'm 22). But today I went into one of my usual haunts and a new girl was working and she gave me the business about only looking 18. I couldn't tell if she was serious or joking with me but she never checked my I.D. 

Also I tend to get some funny looks if I light one up in public. Even if its clearly an area thats okay to smoke.


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## asmartbull (Aug 16, 2009)

Just a couple thoughts on the topic.
I discourage 18 yr olds from smoking cigars unless
it is on special occasions or the occasional visit to the B&M
Knowing how expensive this hobby can be is always in the back of my mind.
Given the "start-up" cost of being an adult and higher education,
the last thing you need is a cooler full of cigars.....

That said, if you are on your own, and responsible for yourself, that is different. Life is for living. I do see a lot of younger guys buying cigars like crazy then selling them because the starter in their car needs replacing.

For our young men in the military, send me your address.

As for the funny looks in B&M's.....talk to the owner of a B&M about how much they loose to theft. Sadly it does tend to be the younger guys. A case where a few bad apples ruin it for the rest.

My advise would be to look to pipes, or own a small hummie.


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## Fuzzface (Nov 17, 2010)

The two I go too are great.. No one gives me any problem and the first time I went to one, the guy was more than helpful.

I could care less if people gave me attitude, I'd give it right back. I'm 18 but my money is still green.


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## Maximon (Aug 3, 2011)

falconman515 said:


> I have been in a place where I got the look cause really it was mostly 50+ gentleman in there and they looked at me as if I wasn't sophisticated enough to be in there with them.


That's interesting. I travel a lot and always try to hit up a local when I'm on the road. One of the things I've noticed about any place that has a lounge in it is that there always seems to be some 350 pound guy in his 20s that hasn't shaved in five days dressed like he robbed a Goodwill smoking a big, fat, expensive stick in the middle of the day.

Seriously, I've seen some variation on this theme at at least ten places in ten different states just this year. I wonder how they're paying for these things? I figure there has to be some sort of hipster douchebag "cool kids" thing going on that I'm not aware of.

I went into a shop in Colorado two weeks ago in a suit and got eyeballed by a whole posse of the fat kids, then had some old guy talk a whole lot of smack when I answered his question about where I was from. Really nice shop, won't go back.


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## rjacobs (Aug 9, 2011)

Buy online. Problem solved. As far as people staring when you smoke your cigars, they would probably stare if you were smoking a cig too so I dont get upset at those people. I'm used to dealing with ignorance since I'm also very into firearms and it tends to be the same type of people in that arena: those that love it and those that hate it.


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## schickjustin (Aug 20, 2011)

I have been to many B&M's down here in South Carolina and back in Indiana and I get mixed reactions as I am only 21. Some of then are really helpful and have a lkot of advice for a young smoker. Then some of them just stare you down like you are just going to steal.


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## fanman1 (Sep 6, 2010)

Maximon said:


> That's interesting. I travel a lot and always try to hit up a local when I'm on the road. One of the things I've noticed about any place that has a lounge in it is that there always seems to be some 350 pound guy in his 20s that hasn't shaved in five days dressed like he robbed a Goodwill smoking a big, fat, expensive stick in the middle of the day.
> 
> Seriously, I've seen some variation on this theme at at least ten places in ten different states just this year. I wonder how they're paying for these things? I figure there has to be some sort of hipster douchebag "cool kids" thing going on that I'm not aware of.
> 
> I went into a shop in Colorado two weeks ago in a suit and got eyeballed by a whole posse of the fat kids, then had some old guy talk a whole lot of smack when I answered his question about where I was from. Really nice shop, won't go back.


Thanks! So all I need to do is gain a little more than 200 pounds, get some crapy clothes and some mgic money for really expensive cigars and go join their posse and then nobody will bother me! Now what shop was this? Seeing as they were 350 they are probably still there. Jk... The message I yet from these responses is to not care what others think. Is say I'm fairly responsible with my cigar budget spending only what I make from eBay and tips rather than dipping into my wages. So its not like I'm fat, unemployed and smoking an opus. I apriciate all of the good advice.


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## szyzk (Nov 27, 2010)

Rock31 said:


> I'm bald and fat so I don't get my ID checked anymore


Here here! :hug: :beerchug: :clap2:


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## Vitulla (Aug 6, 2011)

Really depends. Most places around here are snobbish, leave me alone but are somewhat bothered in answering my questions. But some place are really nice. For example a few weeks ago, I was driving back home from Myrtle beach, needing gas, we ended up stopping at JR Cigars. Walked in, and an old gentleman helped me out, listened to what I wanted and made some suggestions. He didn't seemed to be phased that I was probably the youngest guy in there. It really depends. Working in retail, I learned quickly not to judge a book by its cover...
Quick story:
I worked at Futureshop a while back, a variation of BestBuy for you amerifriends. I sold cameras and camcorders. I remember trying to help the "professionals" when I first started, guys in suits, or couples that looked professional sporting their bmw keys, in my head they were ready to buy. When it came time, it was always a matter of money or a deal or they would be back. They always came back, with camera in hand asking how to solve a problem with the camera that they purchased online. When asked why they didn't purchase off of me, it was a matter or a few dollars...when I spent an hour explaining everything.
On the other hand, I remember as if it was yesterday. It was a snowy winter night, not many people in the store. An older man with long hair, thick beard walks in. All my colleagues give him the cold shoulder. I said what the hell Im bored out of my mind. Spent 20 minutes with him, he bought the most expensive camcorder with all the accessories and was very friendly. Came back a few weeks later to thank me, said I suggested him correctly and was very happy with my service, and he sent me all his friends. I made a few pay checks off him and his friends and they were all very pleasant. Thats how I learnt quickly not to judge people...sorry for all the typing


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## jakesmokes (Mar 10, 2011)

Rock31 said:


> I'm bald and fat so I don't get my ID checked anymore


I think bald is good enough . I never get carded anymore either.


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## Dread (Oct 16, 2009)

Zogg said:


> i was in castros back room in manchester NH with 4 people in the walk in humidor. is pent nearly 40 minutes (with zybert, another guy who didnt smoke, and my girlfriend) looking at everything and not ONCE did anyone tell me to hurry up, not be a stupid teenager, etc etc. the guy just popped in for like 2 seconds about 2 minutes in and said "if you need help finding anything lemme know" and popped back out to tend to other customers. thats how it should be!


Castros is one of my favorite shops, great people. tons of character, and top notch selection and pricing.


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## bcannon87 (Sep 8, 2010)

IMHO I dont care if "others" think i am too young to enjoy cigars. Not trying to be a butt but thats just me. I have only ran into this once at the lounge where I smoke. This guy was "eyeballing" me in a disgusting manner towards me and he didnt realized that I noticed it. I questioned if there was something that i could help him with and he stated that "wasnt I took young to be smoking cigars" well, the conversation turned out to be pretty good and it turned out that I had been enjoying cigars longer than him. Enlightened him a bit i hope.


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## CALIFORNIA KID (Nov 21, 2010)

I do get this all the time. 

If I'm clean shaven I can pass for 16. And to make it worse my girlfriend if wereing the right clothes can pass for 14. Im 21 she's 23. 

The bigest way I resolved this is to only frequent 2 of the local 10 B&M's here. Get to know all of the employes there. And get in there computer system.


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## Wildone (Dec 19, 2009)

They can get fined and in alot of trouble if they do not card, it's their job to assure patrons are of legal age, you can't blame them.
As for them watching, it should not bother you if your intentions are good.
But the rudeness is something uncalled for.:tsk: For sure shop where it is comfortable for you.


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## bcannon87 (Sep 8, 2010)

Wildone said:


> They can get fined and in alot of trouble if they do not card, it's their job to assure patrons are of legal age, you can't blame them.
> As for them watching, it should not bother you if your intentions are good.
> But the rudeness is something uncalled for.:tsk: For sure shop where it is comfortable for you.


I wasnt rude and in fact me and the gentleman had a nice chat about what cigars we liked and i even suggested him getting him a wine fridge and some beads!! It was Nice!


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## nothung (Aug 22, 2011)

I love getting carded. It makes me feel young (really still in my 30s, so I kinda am)


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## Zogg (Aug 31, 2010)

I was carded one time at my local B&M and since them (since the FIRST time i was there) they havent carded me unless its a different employee.


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## k-morelli (Jun 22, 2011)

I'm 23 and the two local b&ms I've been to are total opposites.. Holts is professional and always willing to help and try leave you alone while your browsing, whereas the other one, I won't mention the name cause I don't want to cast a negative light, but the proprietors are inconsiderate and they look at me like I'm not worthy of being there and follow me around as of I'm going to rob them.. I feel there's no right age to enjoy a good cigar and people should treat younger smokers the same as a seasoned vet, because we're all in this for the same reasons


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## Cigary (Oct 19, 2007)

I started smoking cigars when I was 13 but that was a choice I made. I think in retrospect I should have waited but as it turns out nothing negative came from my choice. The bottom line is this...can you afford it and if you can then why worry about what others think? If you are so inclined to doubt yourself in indulging in this hobby then why take it up if you're going to worry what others think? This isn't about anybody else but yourself and if you're young and worry about what others think then....yes, you are too young to accept responsibility for your actions. If you enjoy this at 19 years of age then enjoy it without worrying what anybody else says or thinks. I use to get my cigars in High School and had people looking at me like I had 2 heads...I didn't care because I enjoyed my cigars then and if anybody made comments I'd laugh at them and blow smoke in their direction.


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## bpegler (Mar 30, 2006)

Tell you what. I'll trade all my grey hair for the problems of youth.

I get respect from business owners, but I'm invisible to women under 30.

Probably just as well...


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## nothung (Aug 22, 2011)

bpegler said:


> but I'm invisible to women under 30.
> 
> Probably just as well...


dude, believe me you are much better off!


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## smelvis (Sep 7, 2009)

Cigary said:


> I started smoking cigars when I was 13 but that was a choice I made. I think in retrospect I should have waited but as it turns out nothing negative came from my choice. The bottom line is this...can you afford it and if you can then why worry about what others think? If you are so inclined to doubt yourself in indulging in this hobby then why take it up if you're going to worry what others think? This isn't about anybody else but yourself and if you're young and worry about what others think then....yes, you are too young to accept responsibility for your actions. If you enjoy this at 19 years of age then enjoy it without worrying what anybody else says or thinks. I use to get my cigars in High School and had people looking at me like I had 2 heads...I didn't care because I enjoyed my cigars then and if anybody made comments I'd laugh at them and blow smoke in their direction.


Sorry for quoting the whole post but felt I need to.

Gary I agree with you so much we just have to have that puff cruise bro. Reading your advice I was similar at 17 I had a tab at the bar next door to the motel I was part owner in, my brother in law gave me a sweat equity percentage for taking care of it so no I wasn't no Donald LOL

Anyway in reading you, you sound like you were born just like you are now and I think I was as well. You gave the OP great advice if you are worried about what others think of you smoking cigars just don't and wait till you feel more older or grown up and please I mean no dis respect saying that.

Gary you rock you old codger you :beerchug:


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## nealw6971 (Jul 8, 2011)

fanman1 said:


> What do you feel is an apropriate age for a cigar smoker. I ask this because I am young for the sport and often feel juged whever I go into a b&m. It seems like nobody gives a crap if people my age are smoking cigarettes or hookah (ar any of the other strange things we find to smoke) but when it comes to cigars I feel like older people look at us younger people funny. While us young people love to take part in wild and crazy vices it is cetianly not like they are relaxing. Usually I try not to care what older people think of me smoking cigars but latly its been grinding on me quite a bit. So I ask you older folks; Does it bother you wen you see a younger person smoking a cigar? Are those judging looks that I feel legitamate? Or is it just years of anti tobacco propaganda simmering in my subconcious letting of guilt. And younger folks do you see where I am coming from and do you have any personal expireiences?
> 
> One of my least favorite things when buying cigars from a real store is when they stare at my id for like 20 seconds trying to do the math when they could just look at the sgin they have posted with the minimum age for buying tobacco and see that the birth year on my id is a smaller number than the one on the sgin. It dosent take that long.


I understand what you're saying, completely. I think for me, there was a time when I saw young people smoking cigars, and it had more to do with it being a status symbol or an in your face attempt at "look at me, I want attention" type of thing. It was a lack of respect for "the art" or "the ritual" or whatever you want to call it. Then there was the idea that some people were taking some of the machine mades and taking the tobacco out and replacing it with other substances. It was the whole idea of using something that served one purpose for a completely different and illegal purpose.

I think for me, it all boils down to respecting the art of enjoying a cigar. And I suppose that I sometimes associate some of the bad things that I've seen in regard to that with the "younger generation."

For what it's worth, enjoy your cigars and don't worry about what old farts like me think. 

Anyway, my 2-cents. I'm personally glad that you are a part of this forum and that you enjoy smoking cigars and appreciate it for what it is.


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## akneipp (Aug 3, 2011)

If you're in Denver, go to Cigars on 6th. You'll likely be greeted at the door if they aren't too busy. When you walk into the humidor, they'll pop in and ask if you need any help finding anything.

If you do, they'll help.
If not, they'll be waiting for you at the counter for questions or for ringing you up.

I've yet to get a strange look or comment from anyone (employees or customers) that are there. Seem to be a good group of guys that will get you what you want or provide you with the info on where to get it if they can't.


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## ptpablo (Aug 22, 2010)

I've never been carded but i have been treated rude. I think a lot of B&M's have the regulars and have seen a lot of people come and go and that's where the rudeness stems from and thats there choice. They get one shot with me, treat me right and i'll come back, treat me bad and you will never see me again. I am 35 and still get the typical, "your to young to smoke" and i say how can i be to young to smoke when i have been drinking for almost 15 years (legally). I enjoy it and that's all that matters to me.


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## Cigary (Oct 19, 2007)

smelvis said:


> Sorry for quoting the whole post but felt I need to.
> 
> Gary I agree with you so much we just have to have that puff cruise bro. Reading your advice I was similar at 17 I had a tab at the bar next door to the motel I was part owner in, my brother in law gave me a sweat equity percentage for taking care of it so no I wasn't no Donald LOL
> 
> ...


Ha ha ha...there's something to be said about "doing your own thing" as we learned in the 60's and I took it to heart. I'm not out to impress others nor do I feel the need to...I guess it's all about being true to yourself. Smoking cigars seems to be a status symbol of sorts in the last couple of decades where those who smoke the big stogies are supposed to be telling others of how much success they enjoy. For someone who doesn't appear to fit that "mold" others will judge them according to what the prevalent attitude is. Someone who is barely 21 is going to get attention when they light up a cigar ...the questions from others is going to be...who do they think they are..what do they know about cigars...they're not sophisticated enough to be smoking one...etc. I can still remember when I was 17 and was smoking a Cuban Cigar when I went to play a round of golf and had some of the old hackers giving me grief about it...so I challenged them to 18 holes of Nassau Golf...4 hours later they were into me for what the cost of a box of Cuban Cigars would cost. Everytime after that when I went to play golf there I never got anymore grief from them and actually they'd offer to buy me cigars afterwards. Carry yourself like the person you are...not what others think about you. As I said before...if you question yourself in this hobby about whether you should be doing it or not...you're not ready.


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## Mr. Dave (Aug 16, 2011)

As someone who is 21, I have never felt that kind of pressure from any B&M owner... but maybe it's my _modus operandi_ of how I walk into a store. Every time I've gone into Bell's House of Tobacco here in Fields Ertel, Party Source in Kentucky, or Jungle Jims in Cincinnati I always make sure to invest something into that store other than money. I made it a mission, to get to know these people who were putting their hard earned money into supplying me a luxury in life. I talk with them. The very first time I went into Bell's, I specifically asked for John. I introduced myself, shook the mans hand, and we ended up having a 45-50 minute long conversation about everything from politics to what cigar I should pick up. It is because of that, I imprinted myself unto him... and I think him being a bit older and wiser than me, appreciated that. When I told him I was 21 - he was shocked. Said he never met someone so young who was so personable. I think if you can invest time into the proprietors, they will invest back in kind. When I left that first time, I had only intended to purchase 3 cigars. I left with 6, 3 were comped to me by John. (OF COURSE HE MAY HAVE BEEN JUST TRYING TO GET RID OF ME!)

Letting who you are define you, rather than your age, might make the world of difference at B&M's (and life in general for that matter)... or maybe it's just that all the people who own B&M's in Ohio & Kentucky are just swell people.


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## smelvis (Sep 7, 2009)

Cigary said:


> Ha ha ha...there's something to be said about "doing your own thing" as we learned in the 60's and I took it to heart. I'm not out to impress others nor do I feel the need to...I guess it's all about being true to yourself. Smoking cigars seems to be a status symbol of sorts in the last couple of decades where those who smoke the big stogies are supposed to be telling others of how much success they enjoy. For someone who doesn't appear to fit that "mold" others will judge them according to what the prevalent attitude is. Someone who is barely 21 is going to get attention when they light up a cigar ...the questions from others is going to be...who do they think they are..what do they know about cigars...they're not sophisticated enough to be smoking one...etc. I can still remember when I was 17 and was smoking a Cuban Cigar when I went to play a round of golf and had some of the old hackers giving me grief about it...so I challenged them to 18 holes of Nassau Golf...4 hours later they were into me for what the cost of a box of Cuban Cigars would cost. Everytime after that when I went to play golf there I never got anymore grief from them and actually they'd offer to buy me cigars afterwards. Carry yourself like the person you are...not what others think about you. As I said before...if you question yourself in this hobby about whether you should be doing it or not...you're not ready.


Yep, I will add though since a carhartt button up is dress up for me with a pair of jeans. I will admit when we do our cruise and I bring a fancy suit for those times. I will feel like a big shot but I swear I still won't be able to act like one, we will be the Men in Black with cigars 

The whole boat will be whispering about those mysterious men in Black and soon that tv commercial about beer and the MAN well that will be us!! ROTFLMAO :beerchug:

PS
I want to go now Dammit bro. yes I am stomping my feet as I typed the word now.


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## Cigary (Oct 19, 2007)

ROFL Dave...you have no idea how much I laughed at that reference to the MIB. Also in reference to our other brother Mr. Dave...I'm a firm believer in how one carries themselves in regards to just about anything. Not being snobby but one who carries themself in a way that says you "respect" yourself and people will respond to that. Those who are unsure of themselves bring along that "vibe" and people respond to that as well. Since I don't much care about peoples negative reactions I dont look for it if they make faces and such. If they address me directly then I ensure a proper response back to them.

One thing about a cruise Dave...they are pretty low key anymore and if go to dinner then just bring one suit and different shirts and you're set. That's what I do lately...dark suit and plenty of different shirts and ties to give it a different look. The rest is cargo shorts and shirts and flip flops and a ton of cigars. Im coming across some cruises that are so inexpensive for a week right now it's scary. I see on in Jan-March for a week in the Caribbean for $300...that's right...$300 and thats $45 a day for all the food you can eat...different ports of call...a nice bed to sleep on where they take care of it all day long...I bring my own booze and cigars and it's the best trip/vacation I've ever been on..all the while you're looking out over the ocean watching some of the best scenery anywhere..including scenery in dental floss bathing suit material.

*The whole boat will be whispering about those mysterious men in Black *...as long as we aren't holding hands that should take care of any whispering. lol


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## Zogg (Aug 31, 2010)

Mr. Dave said:


> As someone who is 21, I have never felt that kind of pressure from any B&M owner... but maybe it's my _modus operandi_ of how I walk into a store. Every time I've gone into Bell's House of Tobacco here in Fields Ertel, Party Source in Kentucky, or Jungle Jims in Cincinnati I always make sure to invest something into that store other than money. I made it a mission, to get to know these people who were putting their hard earned money into supplying me a luxury in life. I talk with them. The very first time I went into Bell's, I specifically asked for John. I introduced myself, shook the mans hand, and we ended up having a 45-50 minute long conversation about everything from politics to what cigar I should pick up. It is because of that, I imprinted myself unto him... and I think him being a bit older and wiser than me, appreciated that. When I told him I was 21 - he was shocked. Said he never met someone so young who was so personable. I think if you can invest time into the proprietors, they will invest back in kind. When I left that first time, I had only intended to purchase 3 cigars. I left with 6, 3 were comped to me by John. (OF COURSE HE MAY HAVE BEEN JUST TRYING TO GET RID OF ME!)
> 
> Letting who you are define you, rather than your age, might make the world of difference at B&M's (and life in general for that matter)... or maybe it's just that all the people who own B&M's in Ohio & Kentucky are just swell people.


I'll be honest, especially wearing polos, i thought you were in your mid thirties when I first saw a picture of you. Could be part of it. My friend looks like he's in his 30's and always bought booze when he was like 16 (probably cause of the tons of facial hair and that he wore khakis and polos all the time) since most states have a "look under 30, get carded" law

I have my eyebrow pierced and when not wearing collared shirts and stuff i tend to wear metal band t-shirts and bright-colored shoes, so i look like im in college lol


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## Mr. Dave (Aug 16, 2011)

Cigary said:


> *..including scenery in dental floss bathing suit material.*


Thank God you mentioned that, my fingers were itching to say SOMETHING.

Also Zogg, it seems to be a running joke among my friends that "I'm a 50 year old man in a 21 year old body." Old soul, just how it is.  Wouldn't have it any other way.


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## Zogg (Aug 31, 2010)

Mr. Dave said:


> Thank God you mentioned that, my fingers were itching to say SOMETHING.
> 
> Also Zogg, it seems to be a running joke among my friends that "I'm a 50 year old man in a 21 year old body." Old soul, just how it is.  Wouldn't have it any other way.


Hehe, with me its all on the facial hair. If i grow it out (im greek) People think im 30 or so, and when i shave it all off i look like im 17 lol


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## Beer Alchemist (Aug 17, 2011)

I was standing on the river fishing the other morning and lit my pipe, got a few weird looks because how many 32 year olds smoke a pipe, but then they went right back to fishing like it was nothing. I've never had a strange look from a cigar, just one shop where the guy followed me into their "humidor." But, I got the feel that is how he treated all customers...I left without buying anything.


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## AgentJuggernaut (Apr 12, 2011)

Most B&Ms I've gone to, I've done my thing without any issue. I most places I went in and around Pittsburgh, I would usually get carded once or twice and then I'd be mostly left to my own devices. I particularly liked going to the Leaf & Bean Company in Upper St. Clair/Bethel Park , I really liked the atmosphere there, and everyone there seemed to 'get it' in the sense that we're all here for cigars, no use trying to be better than each other. (It may have changed since I moved to the SLC though). I've been in a few B&Ms since moving out here, the ones where I could feel them watching me I haven't gone to again. The Tinder Box here, I got asked if I needed help, got some information then was left to browse. Honestly, if it weren't for insane taxation I'd do almost all of my purchasing from the Tinder Box here. They're good people... they do card me if I'm clean shaven though (I'm 31, can still pass for 18 fresh after shaving, though). I know they're under pressure to make sure they're not selling to underage folks, particularly from the LDS church.

I guess it depends on where you go, and how you present yourself when you get there. When I first went to the Tinder Box, I walked straight into the humidor, paused long enough to take in a deep breath. Confidence can be very helpful.


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## dacken (Aug 23, 2011)

I really have not had to many problems going into really any shop except for Two guys up in Salem, NH they gave me a lot of weird looks and some what of a hard time. but now that i don't go to that one anymore i have not had any problems. The biggest thing is the people who work in the shops and just hope that they are willing to help you out.


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## neil (Aug 21, 2011)

i am young for a cigar smoker (just turned 21) but i have always felt that even though i am young, i should be able to enjoy a good cigar or a good drink without being judged, especially since i am in the military, and i look the part. although i am only 21, im in the military, married, and a college graduate. i think i have more life experience than a lot of people who judge me based on looks. if you are in the hobby of smoking cigars, i think it says a lot about your character. to me, it says that you are more mature and refined than most young people. 

oh well, the stereotypes and the funny looks are never going to stop until i get older, i figured i would throw in my 2 cents and keep smoking.


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## xBOBxSAGETx (Aug 12, 2011)

Welp I'm 20. I never have problems when going into B&Ms but when I go to my local lounge I get eyeballed and snickers from the older guys when I'm smoking my cigars. If it gets to the point where it's bothering me I have no problem getting up and asking him if there's a problem. I am not a person that cares about what other people think especially when they're acting as if they're elitist. Shrug it off man, don't let anyone make you upset over a couple looks. It's so crazy how some people double our age act so immature.


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## Partially Deaf (Jun 25, 2011)

I'm 22 and I don't get carded.


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## fivespdcat (Nov 16, 2010)

I think Austin was necessarily upset about the carding. I get carded all the time and I'm 30, if you want to be mad at someone get mad at the politicians, they're the ones that make the rules, the shop owners/workers are just obeying the law. However, the attitudes that some people give off are the problem (at least how I interpreted it). As someone else in this thread said, some people are just jerks, and it appears that they think they can be jerks to younger people more than older people since this is a pretty common thing amongst our younger members. It sucks, but we all went through it, just remember when you're a bit older and you see some "young punk" in the shop, don't give him the evil eye, because ten years ago you were that "young punk" and you didn't like it much either. Get to know the kid, they may be just as cool as you were when you were that young. 

Ok enough rambling, it's my old age creeping up! :smoke2:


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## Beer Alchemist (Aug 17, 2011)

fivespdcat said:


> I think Austin was necessarily upset about the carding. I get carded all the time and I'm 30, if you want to be mad at someone get mad at the politicians, they're the ones that make the rules, the shop owners/workers are just obeying the law. However, the attitudes that some people give off are the problem (at least how I interpreted it). As someone else in this thread said, some people are just jerks, and it appears that they think they can be jerks to younger people more than older people since this is a pretty common thing amongst our younger members. It sucks, but we all went through it, just remember when you're a bit older and you see some "young punk" in the shop, don't give him the evil eye, because ten years ago you were that "young punk" and you didn't like it much either. Get to know the kid, they may be just as cool as you were when you were that young.


The penalties for selling to a minor are such that I don't blame a clerk or owner for taking a few seconds to find your DOB, run the math in their head, and realize you are gtg. There is a level of profiling and it makes sense, young people shoplift a lot more than older people...or at least they get caught a lot more. I figure if you walk into a specialty shop, don't look like a hooligan, and don't act suspicious (ie don't try or act like you are avoiding the employees) you will probably have a hassle free experience in most places. But, I hear what the OP is saying, age discrimination works both ways even though it is only legally enforced for the older crowd. If your age doesn't match up with your activity it doesn't mean you are bad, but it will most certainly raise an eyebrow. But, now that I'm starting to feel my age a touch I'm willing to bet most folks would gladly swap their age to youth in exchange for a few suspicious looks .


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## jarrod (Oct 22, 2006)

I'm 23 and have had my own B&M for almost 3 years.. Age was a huge barrier when I started in the business, not with the customers but with the manufacturers. They just couldn't fathom how a 20 yr old who couldn't legally drink yet was going to build a business with much older patrons. 

After 3 years and having successfully built the biggest B&M in the state and being a top account nationwide with manufacturers, they all look past my age and respect me. 

My advice is that if your young and enjoy it, don't worry with what others say. I took this approach and now have an amazing business with a big following by the younger smokers.


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## smelvis (Sep 7, 2009)

I already commented once, But would like to again. I say if you are old enough to Die for our Country you are old enough to deserve the respect as long as you give respect in kind, and most definitely should not be discriminated against. Come on you are us the old farts of tomorrow.


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## jbgd825 (Aug 26, 2011)

Partially Deaf said:


> I'm 22 and I don't get carded.


Me too, for tobacco at least. But I get carded for alcohol still, most of the time.


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## FRANK THE TANK (Jul 19, 2011)

Me and my friend who are both 34 are the youngest I've seen in my local B&M. We don't get funny looks or get judged, but I do get a funny look when I lite up a cigar in public. It seems like if I were to lit up a cigarette it would be more acceptable. I can see where someone 18-25 would get a wierd look or "special attention" at a B&M. I'm not saying it's right, but I see where it could happen.


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## rebeled (Jul 11, 2011)

I was _born_ craving a cigar and started smoking at age 13. Frank the Tank is right; the two pack a day folks look at you funny, probably because you're actually SMOKING something instead of feeding a socially acceptable nicotine habit. Just prepare for it, expect it and let it go. Being a minority of one does not mean you're crazy. As the old saying goes; ''You knew the job was dangerous when you took it.''


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## n2cigars (Apr 22, 2007)

I know a lot of men who, like me, became interested in cigars at an early age. I was 15. By the time I was 18, and it was actually legal to buy cigars, I went through experiences similar to what you mention, probably until I was about 25. I'm now 60, and find I live in a time when smoking cigars is now considered to be a "threat to the entire exposed community," and when legislation is advanced to curb me of an experience I have enjoyed for a very long time. They get you coming and going (!). There is barely any "safe place" to smoke a cigar anymore. I don't know how people find me, but on a number of occasions I have been asked for advice about cigars--that I give willingly and enthusiastically. And when I'm asked about beginning to smoke cigars "as a young person," my reply is--"If you're 18 you are legally allowed to buy and smoke cigars." Nevertheless, you will be entering a zone where what you have decided to do will be frowned-upon by a LOT of people. The anti-smoking nazis, control freaks, people with attitude problems, and those who just do not get it. If you like cigars, you have to be committed and you have to be respectful of others. But you don't have to back-down. Cigar-smoking can be and IS a morale-building social phenomenon--best experienced with other men who share your interest. Make some friends who also like cigars, and share these good times.

By the way--WHAT is a "B&M"? I guess we don't have these in California where I live, though several replies seem to come from members who DO know.

I recall very clearly, 1967, when I was 16 and walked into Grant's Tobacconist on Market Street in San Francisco, with my best friend trailing behind me. It was the first time I had the nerve to enter a real tobacconist and look around--and found they had an actual humidor room devoted to hundreds, perhaps thousands of fine handmade cigars, which was amazing to me. A manager followed me in, and said "how old are you son?" And I said, "I'm 16." And he said, "I can't sell you any cigars until you're 18." And I replied, "I'll be back when I'm 18."

I was actually 21 when i returned to Grant's--and I went there often for many years. But I have to say it was a long time before I felt I got much respect from the guys around me. I gravitated toward larger shapes, even early in my smoking career--and this seemed always to instigate some comment about my selections, which was sometimes embarrassing. I mean, why do they make them, after all? Eventually, you grow up, people get used to you, you participate, and some people will think you're "OK."

Good smoking to you Austin. JD.


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## Mr. Dave (Aug 16, 2011)

Awesome post JD, and to answer your question a "B&M" is a Brick & Mortar, or just a tobacco shop.


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## chef-zorba (Aug 5, 2011)

I think sometimes when a young guy like myself, 29, heads into a local shop, the guys think, "SOB, more stupid questions.....heres the mild section, now, can you leave please?" 

On the other hand some places are really cool with younger guys. Makes sense because we are pretty much the next long-term customer of cigars if you think about it. 

I guess its just a "look and find your home B&M" type of thing. As far as ID's go, its a stiff fine if they sell to under-age people. Just have it ready.


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## David_ESM (May 11, 2011)

I have had no issues (26). However all my local shops are pretty awful. They are mostly half weed pipes half cigars/ciggarettes... And way over priced.

The only shop in town that is ONLY cigars and pipes has one guy who seems like he is fairly desperate for business so he isn't going to push anyone away by saying something stupid or treating them as if they know nothing.


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## neil (Aug 21, 2011)

luckily my local b&ms are run by very nice owners. they are both liquor stores, but one has a very nice walk in humidor and he keeps a small selection of very good cigars. the other is a smaller liquor store with only a cabinet of a selection, but he will order anything i want as long as i promise to buy few and come back. both are really great and have given me good advice and a free cigar from each! and im only 21.


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## n2cigars (Apr 22, 2007)

Mr. Dave said:


> Awesome post JD, and to answer your question a "B&M" is a Brick & Mortar, or just a tobacco shop.


Thanks Man. Cheers. JD.


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## fanman1 (Sep 6, 2010)

jarrod said:


> I'm 23 and have had my own B&M for almost 3 years.. Age was a huge barrier when I started in the business, not with the customers but with the manufacturers. They just couldn't fathom how a 20 yr old who couldn't legally drink yet was going to build a business with much older patrons.
> 
> After 3 years and having successfully built the biggest B&M in the state and being a top account nationwide with manufacturers, they all look past my age and respect me.
> 
> My advice is that if your young and enjoy it, don't worry with what others say. I took this approach and now have an amazing business with a big following by the younger smokers.


This is very cool! Honestly it is my goal in life to start a liquor store/ b&m in the town where I live. The cosest one is nearly an hour away. And like any small town people here drink alot! But most people here are well educated and fairly wealthy so they like the fancy stuff. Novelty here I know smokes cigars but it is a tourist town with nothing for guys to do, I would love to have a conversation with you, even if it is only by pm.


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## Johnnie (Aug 28, 2011)

I have been enjoying this hobby since I was 18 years old so I am ver familiar with the funny looks I get from the other patrons at my local Brick and Mortors. As far as the staff are concerned, I have humored on more than my fair share of tobbacanists trying to lead me to the milder cigars and explaining to me the different varieties of wrappers etc. They always act surprised to see me grab a Opus X or a Padron Ani but overall I think that they are just happy to have the business. Cigar smokers are a rare breed in these parts of Sonoma County, most people are into smoking other things.


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## bc8436 (Feb 12, 2011)

I'm 27, so on the younger side of things here.

There are some cigar shops that have noticeable attitudes towards younger patrons. It does not bother me as long as they don't come off as being rude. The most important criteria for me is selection and price. Whether they respect me or my opinions means absolutely nothing.


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## zabhatton (Aug 1, 2011)

i agree i couldent care less what others think im 24 and i just want to smoke a nice stick


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## Cigary (Oct 19, 2007)

fivespdcat said:


> I think Austin was necessarily upset about the carding. I get carded all the time and I'm 30, if you want to be mad at someone get mad at the politicians, they're the ones that make the rules, the shop owners/workers are just obeying the law. However, the attitudes that some people give off are the problem (at least how I interpreted it). As someone else in this thread said, some people are just jerks, and it appears that they think they can be jerks to younger people more than older people since this is a pretty common thing amongst our younger members. It sucks, but we all went through it, just remember when you're a bit older and you see some "young punk" in the shop, don't give him the evil eye, because ten years ago you were that "young punk" and you didn't like it much either. Get to know the kid, they may be just as cool as you were when you were that young.
> 
> Ok enough rambling, it's my old age creeping up! :smoke2:


You bring up something interesting since I'm one of those 'old farts' and when I see a young man come into a B&M and buy cigars and then sit down to enjoy it I like it...I like watching them get into the passion of something that will entertain them for decades as it will relax them and get them to focus on something more important that having to feel the need to be on their Andriod Phone or texting somebody every other second. Young men need to learn the fine art of kicking back and relaxing and either be along with their thoughts or start up in the dying art of conversation with another BOTL. I see so many younger people "afraid" to be alone with thier own thoughts as they start fumbling around for that stupid cellphone...it's like being alone to just think about life and other things scare the crap outta of them. Socialization means more than just having a small plastic box to talk into or pound out letters on a miniature keyboard to hold a conversation.

I've been in B&M's plenty of times where I'd sit down next to one of the younger men and start up a conversation and the look on their face is surprising..as if they expected me to call them on the fact as to how young they are and who do they think they are coming in here with their bold look and acting like they are older than they really are? Quite the contrary...some of my best and favorite conversation have been with those who were 30 and younger and once they realized that I wasn't there to judge them we would sit back and spend a few hours just enjoying our cigars, drinks and conversation. It's funny...I regressed back to their age while they matured forward and we met somewhere in the middle and really enjoyed our times. My favorite memories were in B&M's in Boston at Cigar Masters, in Palm Beach Gardens at Sabor Havana and a few more in Indianapolis and Kansas City. Most of the time I prefer a young group of cigar smokers because once they know they aren't being judged they are more fun and animated with more conversation material to bring to the table.


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## neil (Aug 21, 2011)

Cigary said:


> You bring up something interesting since I'm one of those 'old farts' and when I see a young man come into a B&M and buy cigars and then sit down to enjoy it I like it...I like watching them get into the passion of something that will entertain them for decades as it will relax them and get them to focus on something more important that having to feel the need to be on their Andriod Phone or texting somebody every other second. Young men need to learn the fine art of kicking back and relaxing and either be along with their thoughts or start up in the dying art of conversation with another BOTL. I see so many younger people "afraid" to be alone with thier own thoughts as they start fumbling around for that stupid cellphone...it's like being alone to just think about life and other things scare the crap outta of them. Socialization means more than just having a small plastic box to talk into or pound out letters on a miniature keyboard to hold a conversation.


makes a lot of sense. you sir, are full of wisdom. teach me your ways, oh wise one! :hail:


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## thebuddha (Jul 31, 2009)

I was actually suprised about the B&M I frequent, the majority of the guys there are younger to middle aged guys, around 20s-40s I would say. I am younger myself (just turned 22) and have never had a problem at this place. On the other hand, other places have given me the full watch through the walk in, extensive checking of the I.D., and the full on looks of "oh God, what is this guy gonna steal" when I walk in.


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## Hot Lips (Dec 28, 2009)

One of my favorite things about a good b&m is the instant comraderie. I know in our circle there are college students that come in with every age through retirees. Some stick (one is now late thirties) some move on either to other cities or other hobbies. We have a WWII vet who comes in every Sunday. One of my favorite things last year was watching the word sspread through the younger groups that you could come in on Sunday and sit and talk with him all morning. We've also seen unexpected friendships and even business relationships made because of the instant comraderie.

That said, I do sometimes bite my toungue when the subject of escorts in the humidor comes up. Before we bought the store, supervision at all times was the policy. We installed cameras and removed that requirement. However, a big part of what we offer is advice and opinions. Many people say no to help the first time and then as they look at boutique cigars and such say yes to the second offer. A younger smoker is often more likely to like having someone to ask questions and bounce ideas off of since they are still (often) finding their own taste profile. If you are ever in a shop, you should feel free to say "I'm just looking, but I'll let you know if I need help" A good shop should back off at that point.


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## StogieNinja (Jul 29, 2009)

I walked in to one of two cigar lounges in my area (they're only allowed on reservation land here in WA), called the Thunderbird Trading Post. It looks a bit sketchy on the outside, and inside it's not exactly glamorous. A buddy asked me to meet him there for a cigar tasting. He ran very late, and I was there alone for a while, and honestly probably gave off a "leave me alone" vibe, as it was a new place, there was a small group of obvious known-to-each-others gathered for the tasting, and I honestly just felt a little insecure.

I was quite surprised when an older guy, full on white beard, asked me my name and struck up conversation with me. He turned out to be a great guy, and his son George who was hosting the tasting turned out to be a fountain of knowledge and a very nice guy as well.

Since then, whenever I'm anywhere, I try to be as open as possible. I've found most guys are more than happy that young guys are interested, and if the young guy is open and willing to chat, they're eager to invite us in.

I've never had the B&M experience where someone things I'm going to steal something or watches me like a hawk. I tend to be dressed in a button up and slacks, since I work in a business environment, so I think that probably helps.

Anyways, Cigary, its guys like you who make this hobby interesting and fun. I might not have gotten into cigars as much as I have if not for that guy at the Thunderbird and his congeniality. He armed me with a bunch of information, which floated around in my head and stayed there. Before long I was eager for more information, which led me here. So you and other FOGs - keep doing what you're doing. It's working on us!


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## David_ESM (May 11, 2011)

Aninjaforallseasons said:


> Anyways, Cigary, its guys like you who make this hobby interesting and fun.


Anyone who claims to feed their dog key lime pie is indeed interesting...


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## neil (Aug 21, 2011)

mmm, key lime pie. i wish i were his dog right about now lol


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## Johnnie (Aug 28, 2011)

Partially Deaf said:


> I'm 22 and I don't get carded.


I'm 28 and I get carded more often for tobacco than I do bourbon.


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## Irish Cannon (Feb 25, 2011)

I used to get followed in the humidor. Now they say, " Hey, brother!" and let me shop on my own. If you're new, they're skeptical, regardless of age. Can't blame someone for wanting to deter theft.

As for ID, they're just protecting themselves. You think they don't want to sell you that stick at 100 percent markup?


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## Cigary (Oct 19, 2007)

neil said:


> makes a lot of sense. you sir, are full of wisdom. teach me your ways, oh wise one! :hail:


Just keep reading posts from a lot of people on here...I've learned more in the last couple of years than I've learned from the last 40 years I've been smoking cigars total.



Aninjaforallseasons said:


> Anyways, Cigary, its guys like you who make this hobby interesting and fun. I might not have gotten into cigars as much as I have if not for that guy at the Thunderbird and his congeniality. He armed me with a bunch of information, which floated around in my head and stayed there. Before long I was eager for more information, which led me here. So you and other FOGs - keep doing what you're doing. It's working on us!


That's why they call it a "BrotherHood of the Leaf"...information is passed on from one to the other and it doesn't matter how young or old you are as you never get too old to learn anything.


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