# Hygrometers



## capttrips (Jun 25, 2012)

I'm already pissed off at this thread and I'm the one who started it! How many times do we have to answer the same darn question? This isn't my first rodeo, but I'm very frustrated and need some advice. I use probably 20 hygrometers through my humis/coolers. Most are Xikar. I use five Control Company remotes. Yesterday, I decided it was time to calibrate them so I tossed them in a bag with a 72% Boveda. Usually within 12 hours you know where you stand. Not one was even close. The worse we're the fancy and outrageously expensive Control Company remotes. I want to get some good hygrometers, preferably remote that are dependable. Because I use so many I don't have time to add, subtract, multiply or divide. I need something that I don't need to worry about. Price doesn't matter.


----------



## asmartbull (Aug 16, 2009)

Dave, 
There are a few threads on this.
Before you toss your hygro's, remember that battery life can change the effectiveness of the devise. I would change the batteries of
a couple and see if it makes a difference......I have also found that using Tupperware is more accurate than a plastic bag.
I will send a link to the NIST I use......It is spot on and I use to to check against my cheap ones......

http://www.cigarforums.net/forums/v...86868-nist-certified-hygrometer-problems.html


----------



## [email protected] (Aug 16, 2012)

asmartbull said:


> Dave,
> There are a few threads on this.
> Before you toss your hygro's, remember that battery life can change the effectiveness of the devise. I would change the batteries of
> a couple and see if it makes a difference......I have also found that using Tupperware is more accurate than a plastic bag.
> ...


Awesome advice, never thought about batteries creating an issue. Kind of like the tv remote that gets squirrely when dying.

Dave, best of luck.


----------



## capttrips (Jun 25, 2012)

I don't know how I missed Socalocmatts thread is hard to believe. I see he's no longer a member. Sent me my first bomb. Anyway time to change batteries and retest.


----------



## Tman (Sep 12, 2010)

How are you calibrating the Xikar with 72% Boveda? Unless you are just using it for point of reference, it only calibrates to 75% RH. Also, the Boveda pack can be off too, like any other media.


----------



## Fuzzy (Jun 19, 2011)

Dave, since money is no object, I have the almost perfect solution to your problem.

Just turn one room of your home into a giant humidor. Serves two purposes. 

First, all your stash will be in one storage unit making it easier to find a cigar for your mood and taste. 

Second and more to the point of your problem, you will not need as many hygrometers. Probably get by with one base and a couple of remotes.


----------



## TMcNasty (Dec 18, 2012)

I recently put two Hygroset II's in a big ziplock with one Boveda 65% pack. They read 69 and 70. But when salt tested they read 75. What does this mean? I dunno, but I figured I'd tell you.
I say salt test them all and see what you see. Imho Boveda packs might not be as reliable/accurate as the salt test when done properly.


----------



## splattttttt (May 17, 2012)

TMcNasty said:


> I recently put two Hygroset II's in a big ziplock with one Boveda 65% pack. They read 69 and 70. But when salt tested they read 75. What does this mean? I dunno, but I figured I'd tell you.
> I say salt test them all and see what you see. Imho Boveda packs might not be as reliable/accurate as the salt test when done properly.


It means your Boveda 65%rh is crap lol. Salt and water is going to read 75% if the hygrometer is calibrated to perfection. If it reald differently after a salt/water test and they're NOT adjustable, then note the difference and have at it. If lower than 75%, than add to equal 75% or vice versa.
Hope that helps.


----------



## Fuzzy (Jun 19, 2011)

Low cost hygrometers are a strange lot. Sometimes, you luck out and get a decent one, sometimes not.

There are Puffers with a more scientific mind than mine, but I am sure there is a difference between relative and ambient humidity. My guess is only the better hygrometers take temperature into consideration when determining the measurement of humidity. Sure, there is a temp. guage on the hygro, but I doubt the less expensive ones factor temps into the measurement.

Salt tests used by most here at puff are a laymans way to check/calibrate a hygrometer. It does give a decent, for this hobby, idea of how well a hygrometer performs but,,, this only verifies how well the hygrometer performs @ 75%, not throughout the entire range of the hygrometer.

All this said, I would tend to believe the accuracy of a Boveda pack 99% of the time over an inexpensive non-NIST hygrometer.

And, I have no affiliation with Boveda or any other producer of cigars and accessories except that I use them. I do not stress over humidity at all now. This contributes to a more harmonious experience with my tobacco hobbies!

Salt should be used to destroy slugs, melt ice and make food taste better!


----------



## Habanolover (Feb 22, 2006)

After using Heartfelt beads for a while I discovered that my hygrometers were all over the place but my cigars were in pristine condition. This lead to me tossing all of my hygrometers and letting the beads do their thing. Have not had to check on and worry about a hygrometer reading in over 5 years and this "hobby" is a lot less stressful than it used to be because of it.


----------



## loobie (Jan 20, 2013)

I'll throw in my 2 cents. I have to have hygrometers that are accurate. To make a long story short. all my humidors have Caliber IV hygrometers. I use a few of them, and have never had one of them be off more than 1% right out of the box. And yes I did salt test them. Hope this helps


----------



## Habanolover (Feb 22, 2006)

Moved to proper section.


----------



## piperdown (Jul 19, 2009)

Habanolover said:


> After using Heartfelt beads for a while I discovered that my hygrometers were all over the place but my cigars were in pristine condition. This lead to me tossing all of my hygrometers and letting the beads do their thing. Have not had to check on and worry about a hygrometer reading in over 5 years and this "hobby" is a lot less stressful than it used to be because of it.


Amen!
The whole cigar environment is going to fluctuate. It happens and my cigars also are in great shape so I don't worry about it anymore.


----------



## Gdaddy (Sep 20, 2012)

I heard of many people say the Boveda pack was off the mark. The salt test has been spot on correct. It's pure science.


----------



## Gdaddy (Sep 20, 2012)

And make sure you remove the battery every time before calibration.


----------



## MarkC (Jul 4, 2009)

Having worked on consumer electronics for the marine market (loran receivers back in the day), the salt test kind of scares me. Putting electronic items in a bag with salt water just doesn't sound too good for the long term health of the hygrometer. On the other hand, I've done it, and haven't noticed any corrosion in mine, so maybe I'm just a worrywart.


----------



## splattttttt (May 17, 2012)

Gdaddy said:


> And make sure you remove the battery every time before *re* calibration.


Fixed it for you Don. Good point. Thanks.
And let's not forget that all humidors or any other cigar storage container for that matter will not all seal the same.
I have a couple that are so awesome, I never need to add DW. Some others require more attention. All either are filled with Heart Felt Humidity Beads, or Exquisicat Crystal brand kiddy litter and calibrated hygrometers. The room in which I store my humies sits at 64% with a +/- 4% and thermostat st at 65* F right now. Summer tends to see more humidity, but temp rarely soar above 70* F 
It is my basement.


----------



## tylernim (Nov 9, 2012)

My current hygro is rock solid during a 24 hour salt test and 65% on the dot when in my desktop with my HF beads.

I tested it against a 65% boveda for 24 in a tupperware....it read 71%.

Don't test your hygros against bovedas, I don't care what anyone says.


----------



## Fuzzy (Jun 19, 2011)

tylernim said:


> My current hygro is rock solid during a 24 hour salt test and 65% on the dot when in my desktop with my HF beads.
> 
> I tested it against a 65% boveda for 24 in a tupperware....it read 71%.
> 
> Don't test your hygros against bovedas, I don't care what anyone says.


I do not dispute what you say, how about seeing what your hygrometer reads with boveda packs in your humidor or, what your hygrometer reads with your HF beads in a tupperware. Two different environments. I will say my experience with HF beads alone were not as care/worry free as my experience with a combo of humidifiers.

I use dry 65% HF beads and 65% boveda packs in one of my storage boxes and it has read 65% steady for over a year. It may jump a point or two, sometimes more if the storage is opened frequently or new cigars are added but stabilizes very quickly.

I have another storage using dry kitty litter and boveda packs with the same results.

Neither combo requires any maintenance for most of the year. I do live in a swampland where the documented annual average is over 70% with some days nearing 90%

Accessories, like cigars are a personal choice, There is no definitive right or wrong. Enjoy the hobby!


----------



## numismaniac (Jan 14, 2012)

definitely must use salt and dist h20 to calibrate..............IIRC Boveda packs say on the label ±2%, I think...........I use a glass jar for the calibration chamber, best seal you can get

I've used the rectangular cheapie they sell on cbid for over a year now(recently grabbed 2 more for $10 each)..........as stated above check the batteries first, for me this seems to be the most likely cause for erratic behavior, especially with the batteries that came with 'em, duracells will hold up longer than others, I've found, and with my science background, I'm anal about my Hygrometers, hehe


----------



## HumidorDiscount.com (Sep 8, 2011)

We mostly count on analog hair hygrometers... Our experience shows, that these are the most reliable ones.


----------



## capttrips (Jun 25, 2012)

Okay. so yesterday morning I went to Wally World and bought batteries and air tight containers. Took them home changed all the batteries, placed them in said air tight container with some damp salt, put on the lid and let it sit. When I checked them this morning every gdmfin' one of them was anywhere from 6-12% off. Some can be calibrated so that's a plus, but you can't calibrate the expensive one's and according to where I bought them this is totally acceptable. Horse Hockey! So now, the one's I can't calibrate I have to play mental math with. Not sure what to do next. Definitely buying a cabinet with a professional humidification system.


----------



## splattttttt (May 17, 2012)

Dave, I write the difference on paper and tape it to the hygrometer. I only have to do this with two of them luckily.


----------



## B-daddy (Oct 29, 2012)

As I am a bear of very little brain, I have no reliable advice to give you. Just know that I feel your pain, brother.


----------



## piperdown (Jul 19, 2009)

capttrips said:


> Okay. so yesterday morning I went to Wally World and bought batteries and air tight containers. Took them home changed all the batteries, placed them in said air tight container with some damp salt, put on the lid and let it sit. When I checked them this morning every gdmfin' one of them was anywhere from 6-12% off. Some can be calibrated so that's a plus, but you can't calibrate the expensive one's and according to where I bought them this is totally acceptable. Horse Hockey! So now, the one's I can't calibrate I have to play mental math with. Not sure what to do next. Definitely buying a cabinet with a professional humidification system.


Dave, even the most expensive and reliable hygros drift. It's just the nature of this type of measuring device. We have NIST ones at work that run a couple hundred to a couple of thousand dollars. The calibration schedule for them depends on the individual unit on how it operates over time. We have all of them on at least a yearly schedule but almost all of them are, in reality, set up for recal at 6 months. We calibrate through our instrument group with a high dollar NIST environmental chamber. If our instrument group can't get a good reading or the instrument has too much drift then they get sent back to the manufacturer....a lot go back to the manufactuer....

I used to use this QuestTechnologies.com: QUESTemp° 34 Portable Monitor at a former job all the time. I basically sent it to our central instrument services group after each use for re-calibration.

The fact that some $5-25 hygros work as well as they do is just amazing to me. If they are off a bit no big worries on my part as my cigars are still in good condition and smoke just fine.


----------



## Gdaddy (Sep 20, 2012)

My Zicar hygro was so easy. Salt test...push the button...shazam it was done. I've tested it several times and it remains calibrated correctly.


----------



## HumidorDiscount.com (Sep 8, 2011)

Oh, I forgot to attach this review from Cigar Aficionado magazine: hair hygrometer


----------



## Pasty (Nov 8, 2012)

Gdaddy said:


> My Zicar hygro was so easy. Salt test...push the button...shazam it was done. I've tested it several times and it remains calibrated correctly.


+1. Totally hassle-free and gives a consistent reading.


----------



## Herf N Turf (Dec 31, 2008)

Dave,

Perhaps your troubles are not the hygrometers themselves, but the calibration. It sounds to me like you really want the most accurate readings you can get. If that's the case then what you need to do is what laboratories and research facilities do; send it to an independent testing and calibration facility once a year. Once you have your best instrument professionally calibrated, you just set the others to that.

What you want is again, what research facilities do. They will have their instruments calibrated to the exact RH at which they're testing. So, assuming you're storing your stogies at 65%, you'll want the instrument set to that point. Calibrating at 75% with a salt test will not render good accuracy at 65%.

Here's a link to Laboratory Testing Inc's website. Here's another link to the Luft data logging certified hygrometer, which will record your readings via USB and is also an extremely accurate and durable unit.

The advice above on replacing batteries is also essential to accuracy. This is crucial with low-cost models. Less so with certified instruments, which tend to remain accurate as long as they're running.

Finally, bear in mind that as cigars "breathe", they also release oils into the environment. These oils attach to the sensor of the hygrometer and will skew readings. I'm pretty sure that when you send them off for calibration, the lab will address the sensor as well.

Hope this helps.


----------



## splattttttt (May 17, 2012)

Oh great Don! Now I have to worry about cigar oil scewing with my digigrometer.


----------



## Lrbergin (Jun 14, 2012)

I always thought the Boveda packs were spot when used in tupperware. I don't even put a hydro in my tupperdors anymore because I didn't think I needed one. Shows what I know.


----------



## splattttttt (May 17, 2012)

Lrbergin said:


> I always thought the Boveda packs were spot when used in tupperware. I don't even put a hydro in my tupperdors anymore because I didn't think I needed one. Shows what I know.


Well, tupperware makes a near perfect seal. Better than wooden humidors in most cases.
In winter, I find that cigars arriving by mail tend to be dryer than they do in winter... Plan accordingly.


----------



## capttrips (Jun 25, 2012)

Herf N Turf said:


> Dave,
> 
> Perhaps your troubles are not the hygrometers themselves, but the calibration. It sounds to me like you really want the most accurate readings you can get. If that's the case then what you need to do is what laboratories and research facilities do; send it to an independent testing and calibration facility once a year. Once you have your best instrument professionally calibrated, you just set the others to that.
> 
> ...


Thanks, Don! I'm giving them a call tomorrow to check on cost. I have way too much time and money invested in cigars to be guessing. I'll let you know the results.


----------



## VAcigars (Nov 28, 2012)

So I've been thinking about making my own hygrometer out of a raspberry pi (of course with more features than just a hygrometer) with additional humidity sensors and wondering if anyone has tries something like that before and if it has turned out to be more accurate than some of the standard digital meters like xikars?


----------



## splattttttt (May 17, 2012)

you think that'll work?


----------



## VAcigars (Nov 28, 2012)

splattttttt said:


> you think that'll work?


Yea, but of course I will have to program it to be able to interpret the output of the sensors correctly. Not sure how accurate or how well some of these sensors are though, most that I've looked at list an accuracy of +- 3Rh or so.

So it might not be worth the time and I don't have to use a raspberry pi, but was looking for a project to play around with that board and figured this would be an interesting one


----------



## Herf N Turf (Dec 31, 2008)

capttrips said:


> Thanks, Don! I'm giving them a call tomorrow to check on cost. I have way too much time and money invested in cigars to be guessing. I'll let you know the results.


Jerry fans gotta stick together, dude.


----------

