# Wineador not cooperating.



## yellowv (Dec 24, 2011)

So I have a NewAir 28 bottle. Before getting drawers I had about 2lbs of dry KL in it with some empty boxes and cedar scraps just to see how it would do. It ran about a month pretty solid at 64%RH and 66 degrees. So when I got my drawers I wiped them down a little with some distilled water and left it with dry litter and I threw in the pound of dry conservagel beads I had in my old wineador. I have 5 drawers and a shelf in there. It stayed steady at 62%RH for a few days so I figured putting my sticks in would probably raise it a bit and it would level out around 64%. So after a couple of days it is rock solid around 63% at the bottom an 61% at the top. I wanted just a bit more humidity so I spritzed the beads. After 24hrs it didn't move. Now I tried taking the beads out of media bags and putting them in tupperware containers. Do you guys think it's just going to take some time for all those drawers to properly season? The other issue I'm having is with the temp. Set at 65 it sits more like 69. If I set it lower it pulls humidity. I really would like about 64 degrees in there. Should I just leave it for a few days and see what happens?


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## chasingstanley (Jan 24, 2011)

You may not notice a change right away could take weeks maybe even longer this exact thing happened to me with my tupperdors.


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## Poneill272 (Oct 29, 2010)

I think as soon as you put dry kl in there after wiping the drawers, the kl sucked all of that moisture out of the wood. I would wipe the drawers down again, leave the kl and other media out and put some bowls of distilled water in there. Close it up and leave it for at least a week. Then if it has held above 75% for a few days, reintroduce the kl. let the kl lower the rh until its where you want it.


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## nikonnut (Dec 4, 2011)

Joe,
I don't know if this will help but I wiped my trays down with DW and then put them in a lager rubbermaid container with the standard soaked sponge in a bowl set-up and closed the whole mess up for 4 days ( I had a calibrated hygro in there too). When I opened it the trays were at 72% RH or the air was. That's when I put them in the newair with the dry KL. The RH dropped to 59% and then it climbed to 65% then started falling again. It took a week of gentle spritzing (3 sprays max per tub/sock/whatever and wait at least 12 hours) to get everything squared away. As for the difference top to bottom, I think that is unavoidable. Mine sits at 64% up to and 63% on the bottom. Temps? I'm working on that one myself but I think it will settle in too. I'm at 65F top and bottom but last night I was at 62F. If I can help just ask  I think everything will be fine, brother. Just go slow and be patient. It'll get there :tu

EDIT: BTW, what are the temps where your wineador is stored? I'm noticing that cranked all the way up (66F) mine runs about 10 degrees cooler than ambient.


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## yellowv (Dec 24, 2011)

Ambient temps here in my house are between 73 and 75. My small 12 bottle wineador ran colder than this one. It sat at 63-64 degrees when set on 64. This one seems to be less accurate as far as what it's set on, but it makes sense being that it has a much larger interior. It's a good 4 or 5 higher than where I have it set. I can't really do any more seasoning at this point being that everything is in it, as well as some of the trays and beads from my old wineador. I'm just going to have to give it time to get there on it's own, but if it stays over 60% it should be fine. I'm just too impatient. With all that cedar I put in it I should have given it more time. I'll just have to keep sprizing the beads as needed. If I overdo it I have plenty of KL that I can swap out the wet for dry.


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## nikonnut (Dec 4, 2011)

I think your plan is solid. I definitely ended up swapping a cup of damp for a cup dry here and there  I'm betting those drawers are just thirsty.


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## Greendizer (Jan 16, 2012)

Correct me in case I’m wrong. 28 pc cooler is about 16 cub. Feet internal size. Few days ago the was the more o less the same question about temp/humidity in the wineodoor this size. The poin is that the original fan on the heat exchanger inside the unit is too weak to sufficiently move the air round the box. I guess it the same size/power as the fan in your smaller unit. 
From hereon to main problems arise – uneven temp and humidity over the inside volume and high risk of condensation on the heat exchanger which will make the RH situation insane. Actually you already saw it yourself when tried to go for lower temp setting. Weak fan just cannont achive good airflow to the fool depth of the radiator. So it easily goes down to 60F which is dew point for initial 65/65 setting. And the water condensing moves your RH down.
In my setup I did two things: moved the thermosensor of the cooler directly to the heatexchanger so it measures (and lets you set )not the temp of air inside but the temp of radiator just to make sure it never goes to dew point and installed powerful centrifugal blower (instead of original fan) to push air all way down to radiator base and through all unit. That keeps temp around 0.5F difference top to bottom and even RH all through. 
Putting separate fan inside helps to achieve even temp/RH in the cooler but doesn’t help with condensation problem.
Hope this helps.


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## yellowv (Dec 24, 2011)

Right now after sitting a couple more days i am at 63% up top and 64% on the bottom. I would like to see the top at 64 as well, but it's fine either way. Still haven't been able to get the temp down. It's at 68 up top and 67 on the bottom. Not bad, but I would like to drop it a few degrees if I can. I'll give it a few days and if the RH comes up at all I'll lower the temp and see if that will balance it out with a lower temp. If not I may try to find an oust fan. But at any rate if it's keeping under 70 degrees and around 64% RH it should be fine. Getting a tiny bit of condensation where the drain hole was, but I don't think that's affecting too much. Had I know it was going to be a PITA to regulate I would have gotten a second 12 bottle. That one held temp and RH rock solid with 0 condensation.


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## usrower321 (Mar 27, 2011)

I think a few days isn't long enough to properly season that much spanish cedar. My 100 count humi continued to suck moisture for almost 2 weeks after I silicone sealed the glasstop and re-seasoned. I would try to aim for steady at 70% then add your sticks. Add dry KL as needed to lower RH and use the filter bags because more surface area will be exposed to the environment. Just my 2 pennies. Good luck!


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## yellowv (Dec 24, 2011)

A lot of you guys seem to be missing the fact that my sticks are in the cooler. I jumped the gun and put them in too early. I can't take them out and put them back where they were bc that cooler is now off and emptied. I'm stuck. Just have to hope things level out. Humidity is slowly coming around, but I am unhappy with the temps. I just put a hygro all the way at the top and it reads 72. That's no good. Trying to get it colder in there and get more humidity as well. Going to add a couple of saucers of distilled and see if it helps bring the humidity up while the temps get lower. I think I'm going to have to get some fans in here.


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## Herf N Turf (Dec 31, 2008)

The "PITA" is not the wineador, or the drawers. The PITA is trying to train unregulated humidification media. You spent all that money on a fridge, drawers and thousands in cigars, only to depend on $5 worth of cat litter to insure it all? Am I the only one who sees the flaw in this plan? There are literally a thousand different things you can train to hold steady RH in a given enclosure. Everything from a feminine protection device, to a wadded up sock. Cat litter is only one of them. Either spend the money on an active system, such as the Accumonitor I chose, or on regulated, high-density silica gel, such as Heartfelt Beads, or suffer the trials and tribulations of trying to train a rabbit to fetch.

And, yes, the drawers will take a good long time to season. Probably a week to an acceptable range and a couple of months for true stability.

Saucers will do nothing; simply not enough surface area and if you're determined to lower the temperature, even with moistened sponges, you're restricting evaporation to too great a degree. You need to factor in the effects of cold air on relative humidity. 70% humidity at 60*F is a lot of water in the air. Personally, I'd never go lower than 66*F, unless you're planning to measure age in decades.

Just my tuppence.


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## usrower321 (Mar 27, 2011)

yellowv said:


> A lot of you guys seem to be missing the fact that my sticks are in the cooler. I jumped the gun and put them in too early. I can't take them out and put them back where they were bc that cooler is now off and emptied. I'm stuck. Just have to hope things level out. Humidity is slowly coming around, but I am unhappy with the temps. I just put a hygro all the way at the top and it reads 72. That's no good. Trying to get it colder in there and get more humidity as well. Going to add a couple of saucers of distilled and see if it helps bring the humidity up while the temps get lower. I think I'm going to have to get some fans in here.


You aren't stuck...put all your sticks in sealed freezer bags and you'll be fine for a week.

It seems like you're pretty stubborn on the sticks are there and staying so 61 and 63rh really isn't that bad. Just raise it GRADUALLY. You can cause swelling and splitting of cigars if you throw a bunch of dishes of water. I would say spray the KL every 12 hours until you're at where you want to be. If you keep running and trying to drop the temp down your RH will lower again and you'll just be stuck on the hamster wheel. 72 is not a terrible temp for a week.

This hobby is about patience and you can't rush a lot of things. If you don't take the time to do something properly you most likely will regret rushing it in the long run so smoke one of your sticks and relax.


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## yellowv (Dec 24, 2011)

Believe me I was in the same train of thought about the beads vs kitty litter thing. I saw so many guys having success with it I had to give it a shot. Well I took the saucers out and sprayed the beads with more distilled. Also I swapped one of the drawers and the shelf around which seems to allow better airflow through the unit and it seems to be coming around. The temps have dropped to an acceptable level without me having to crank it down.. about 67-68 and the humidity is now at 64 up top and 63 at the bottom. We'll see if these numbers hold. If it continues to give me fits I will zipper bag all the sticks and season the drawers again for a week. Just a problem caused by my impatience.


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## ptpablo (Aug 22, 2010)

Joe, what is the location of the KL??? i have a 28 bottle edgestar and run about 4lbs in the bottom of litter that i spray and i have about 1-2 lbs of dry in the top. humidity rises so the dry will absorb the extra humidity and this is the same concept i run in 2 100qt coolers (stood up on end, like a wineador) and i haven't had a problem in 2 years.


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## AndrewB (Mar 2, 2012)

Jim, are you using mesh bags at the bottom or a bowl? I am curious as I am just getting through the cleaning stage of my NewAir and getting ready to put in the cat crystals.


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## ptpablo (Aug 22, 2010)

I actually use 2 chinese take out plastic containers on the bottom, you know the white ones that are rectangle and about 1-2 inches high? you want more surface contact and about a 1 inch layer of KL. On the top i use an old oliva sampler box bottom, because it looks better then looking at plastic. I am not a fan of the mesh bags because of the dust that comes off the crystals. I also use the coffins that the cigars come in, i put 1 in each drawer filled with KL. looks nice and takes up less room. the more KL the better!


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## yellowv (Dec 24, 2011)

Got it sorted. Was all an airflow issue. I swapped one of the drawers and the shelf and within minutes you could see that the flow was better as the temp dropped and the humidity raised. I set it at 65 and within an hour or less it leveled out and it has been sitting at 64% RH and 67 degrees up top and 63% RH and 68 degrees on the bottom rock solid for a good 18 or 19 hours now. I would like to see the humidity come up 1 percent on the bottom, but that's just splittin' hairs there.


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## ptpablo (Aug 22, 2010)

Glad it worked out for ya Joe.


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## yellowv (Dec 24, 2011)

Thanks Jim.


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## falconman515 (Jul 10, 2011)

yellowv said:


> Got it sorted. Was all an airflow issue. I swapped one of the drawers and the shelf and within minutes you could see that the flow was better as the temp dropped and the humidity raised. I set it at 65 and within an hour or less it leveled out and it has been sitting at 64% RH and 67 degrees up top and 63% RH and 68 degrees on the bottom rock solid for a good 18 or 19 hours now. I would like to see the humidity come up 1 percent on the bottom, but that's just splittin' hairs there.


Glad this all worked out Joe!

I saw to many conflicting stories in here and way to much wrong suggestions and information that I just didn't want to get into a debate with any brothers on certain things about seasoning time and KL etc.

You did your cooler right but it just takes a bit of time troubleshooting to get things working right and stable.

Nice to see it finally holding for you brother.

If you ever need any help or need some suggestions or questions on things please feel free to PM ... I am more than happy to help that way (I have helped countless guys here lately with their new coolers via PM)

Take care brother and see ya around the forums.


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## Flapjack23 (Jan 18, 2012)

If you don't mind...throw up a picture if what it looks like now...I'd like to see how your shelves/drawers flow air best. Thx...Andy


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## Kindanutz (Jan 31, 2012)

Flapjack23 said:


> If you don't mind...throw up a picture if what it looks like now...I'd like to see how your shelves/drawers flow air best. Thx...Andy


^^^ agreed... I would like to see the set up that fixed your problem as well... Thanks...


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## choinga (Aug 11, 2010)

I had a similar problem with my NewAir. I had a shelf on top and used the middle section around the fan to store boxes with shelves all the way down. I just moved the shelf down and put all the boxes up top and that fixed it.

That said, I use 65% beads - a little bit of HF but mostly HCM beads and stay between 63-65. I do notice that when the cooler kicks on for long periods it will drop the humidity down to 61% in the middle. Not sure why it does that, but I'm not complaining.

I live in Texas and it's gonna get hot this summer and I'm interested to see how this thing performs. I keep the ambient temp in my lower level where the wineador is located around 75 degrees. It's at that right now and the NewAir is set on 62 and it barely holds 70 degrees. I know these thermostats are way off but I'm afraid that over the summer, I might just kill this thing to keep at 69-70.


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## usrower321 (Mar 27, 2011)

choinga said:


> I had a similar problem with my NewAir. I had a shelf on top and used the middle section around the fan to store boxes with shelves all the way down. I just moved the shelf down and put all the boxes up top and that fixed it.
> 
> That said, I use 65% beads - a little bit of HF but mostly HCM beads and stay between 63-65. I do notice that when the cooler kicks on for long periods it will drop the humidity down to 61% in the middle. Not sure why it does that, but I'm not complaining.
> 
> I live in Texas and it's gonna get hot this summer and I'm interested to see how this thing performs. I keep the ambient temp in my lower level where the wineador is located around 75 degrees. It's at that right now and the NewAir is set on 62 and it barely holds 70 degrees. I know these thermostats are way off but I'm afraid that over the summer, I might just kill this thing to keep at 69-70.


I think guys use Electronic Temperature Controllers (ETC's) to help solve the problem. From what I understand you put the temp sensor in your wineador and then the actual unit plugs into the wall then into your wineador plug and when the temp drops out of the range you set it turns the wineador on. That way it won't be running 24/7 trying to get to a temp it never will. Many people recommend a certain brand but I can't think of the name. If you do a search on here I'm sure you'll find it. Good luck!


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## yellowv (Dec 24, 2011)

Thanks guys. Here is a pick as it sits now. It is holding stable at 64-65% and 67-68 degrees up top and 63-64% and 67-68 degrees on the bottom. 








Here is how it was previously. Just a slight change made all the difference.


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## yellowv (Dec 24, 2011)

choinga said:


> I had a similar problem with my NewAir. I had a shelf on top and used the middle section around the fan to store boxes with shelves all the way down. I just moved the shelf down and put all the boxes up top and that fixed it.
> 
> That said, I use 65% beads - a little bit of HF but mostly HCM beads and stay between 63-65. I do notice that when the cooler kicks on for long periods it will drop the humidity down to 61% in the middle. Not sure why it does that, but I'm not complaining.
> 
> I live in Texas and it's gonna get hot this summer and I'm interested to see how this thing performs. I keep the ambient temp in my lower level where the wineador is located around 75 degrees. It's at that right now and the NewAir is set on 62 and it barely holds 70 degrees. I know these thermostats are way off but I'm afraid that over the summer, I might just kill this thing to keep at 69-70.


I think your having the same kind of issue that I was. I am in Florida and my thermostat in the house is set at 75 during the day every day. Once I got the air flow in the cooler sorted it is having no problem keeping 67-68 in there with the cooler set on 65. Try moving your drawers around and see if that helps. When I moved mine I could see an improvement almost immediately with the temp drop. When i was having to set it lower it would run the fan almost constantly and pull the humidity and not cool down properly. You could tell it was overworking the unit and I was getting more condensation. With it set at 65 now there is very little condensation and less stress on the unit.


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## choinga (Aug 11, 2010)

do you have any drawers directly in front of the fan? I've hesistated on doing this as in the NewAir at least, the fan runs constantly...can't do anything about that...but only occasionally does the cooler come on. So, I don't want a drawer or two directly in front of the fan and getting constant air flow on cigars stored inside. I know the back of the drawers are solid...so maybe that's enough deflection where it won't have airflow directly to the cigars.


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## falconman515 (Jul 10, 2011)

I have yet to buy any drawers but I always wondered about how bad it was to have solid wood right in front of the fan with a full top to bottom drawer set-up.

That is one thing I am not familiar with since I am running all trays.

Curios if that makes a difference in RH and temp and also is that bad for the unit basically having a huge piece of wood right in front of the fan like that at all times?


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## Greendizer (Jan 16, 2012)

Placing drawer in front of fan is no problem unless it doesnt block the airflow. Fan sucks air through the front grill (wich is close to the drawer) and puffs -) it along the back wall. Inside fan runs all the time, it's normal. Only cooling unit/outside fan are regulated according to temperature.


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## falconman515 (Jul 10, 2011)

Greendizer said:


> Placing drawer in front of fan is no problem unless it doesnt block the airflow. Fan sucks air through the front grill (wich is close to the drawer) and puffs -) it along the back wall. Inside fan runs all the time, it's normal. Only cooling unit/outside fan are regulated according to temperature.


I would think it would block the airflow and make it hard for that fan to suck air in then push it back out with so little room between the drawer backs and the black wall where the fan and vents are.

I have always been worried about this ... though it might be fine for the time being I think this may limit the life span of the unit somehow. Just a thought ... would hate to think that doing this would cut down the life span of the cooler unit ... may be better to only get say 4 or 5 drawers and leave that section open where the fan is to be safe.

Would be kind of a bummer for me since I don't really buy boxes and would really like the entire unit to be drawers and not a shelf or two.


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## yellowv (Dec 24, 2011)

After seeing the effects of blocking the fan I would personally not do a full set of drawers. I think the set I have is pushing it. I really think it needs at least one good gap in front of the fan to get decent airflow. I am in the same boat as you falconman and I don't really store anything in boxes. I originally ordered 4 drawers and added the fifth to my order later on. Almost added another as well, but I'm glad I didn't. If you do one shelf you can do like I did and use a tray for your KL and then if you have any coffin boxed stuff or small samplers or anything it can go there.


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## yellowv (Dec 24, 2011)

Experiencing another weird thing this am. It got a little cold here last night and the temp in the house got to about 70. The cooler dropped to 64 degrees and the humidity went up to 68 up top and 66 on the bottom. Strange that a temp drop would raise the humidity. Gonna just see if when the house warms back up to normal temp if the humidity will drop back down. We get very few days out of the year down here that the temp in the house drops that much.


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## choinga (Aug 11, 2010)

...i moved some stuff around in my NewAir 28 and had horrible results when I covered the fans with trays. Temps were incosistent (+/- 5 degrees from top to bottom) and RH dropped to high 50's / low 60's because the cooler fan wanted to stay on all the time. I don't know if others experience that - but when the cooler fan (not the fan that's on all the time...but the fan that actually cools) stays on for long periods, the RH in my box plummets. What works best in my box is leaving the top two slots open and storing boxes up there and shelves all the way down.


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## Flapjack23 (Jan 18, 2012)

A couple comments...possible a small oust fan might help too with airflow. I don't remember if you have one or not. The humidity change you experienced is normal. Remember you are measuring relative humidity not absolute humidity. As the air warms, the amount of water it can hold increases (causing a corresponding decease in RH). In your case, the air cooled, decreasing how much water it can hold, causing your RH to raise. The relative part of RH that everyone forgets is that it is temperature based measurement. That's why its important to have a reactive humidifier, your KL will attempt to maintain your RH through the temp swings.


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## yellowv (Dec 24, 2011)

I almost ordered an oust fan a couple of times. I think I may just get one for the heck of it, but it seems to be good to go now. The temp in my house is back to normal and the cooler is almost leveled back out already.


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## Flapjack23 (Jan 18, 2012)

Glad its back in shape, I'm still undecided on the need for a fan. I will have less drawers that you initially...guess I'll wait and see.


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## Greendizer (Jan 16, 2012)

Flapjack23 is 100% right. RH is temperature dependant. The best way to get it stable is to stabilize temperature. But 1-2 degrees fluctuations are still possible and to overcome them you need kind of damper that will absorb excessive moister out of air when RH jumps up and release it when coolidor gets drier than optimal. As a damper KittyLitter or beads might be used. As figured from your posts, you have 3 Lb of litter inside. It might be a good idea to add one more. And an optional fan will help alot.


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## yellowv (Dec 24, 2011)

For now I'm just gonna leave well enough alone. I have roughly 2lbs of KL and a 1 lb of 65% beads in there. As I said my house rarely ever has major changes in temp. When it's at it's normal 73-75 degree temps (which it is about 350 days per year) the cooler is at 64-65% RH and 67-68 degrees. That is perfect for me. It also recovers quickly when opened. So I am afraid if I add any more KL I am going to throw it off again.


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## Flapjack23 (Jan 18, 2012)

Those numbers look great. As log as everything smokes well, you've got it figured out...don't touch a thing.


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## yellowv (Dec 24, 2011)

Yeah I'm leaving it. The top is between 64-65% and 67-68 degrees and the bottom between 63-64% and 67-68 degrees. It tends to go down 1 degree and up 1% during the night when it's slightly cooler in the house and vice versa during the day when it's a little warmer. Can't complain about that. A regular humidor would be at 75-76 degrees or more during the day.


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