# I'm glad I don't live in Utah



## tjwheels (Feb 19, 2006)

Below is an article posted by the AP on the CNBC website.

SALT LAKE CITY - The Utah Senate has passed a bill to prohibit people from ordering tobacco and tobacco products by mail or on the Internet.

Sen. Margaret Dayton, R-Orem, says the purpose of the bill is to keep underage people from smoking.

The bill would limit individuals to buying tobacco products from vending machines and local stores.

Violations could result in a fine up to $5,000.

The bill was passed by the Senate unanimously Friday and will be debated further in the House.


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## hornitosmonster (Sep 5, 2006)

Ouch...Also Glad I don't live in Utah...


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## Snake Hips (May 30, 2008)

They're trying to prevent underage smoking...but they have tobacco vending machines?


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## goatfarmer (Feb 24, 2008)

Beautiful state, obviously the Citizens of the great state of Utah get what they vote for!! Seem to recall Ca. residence occasionally threadened with simular legistation, fortunately rational minds prevail, if nothing else, does not take much to activate Ca. residents.


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## FN in MT (Jan 22, 2008)

It's ALL OK...it's for the children.


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## BigDaddyJ (Feb 23, 2009)

Watch out. Your state could be next!


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## docruger (Feb 12, 2009)

damn democrats. leave our smokes and firearms alone.


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## zitro_joe (Oct 6, 2008)

I dont know what to say about that


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## zitro_joe (Oct 6, 2008)

docruger said:


> damn democrats. leave our smokes and firearms alone.


Bro, I can clearly see that you really (I mean really) did not do your homework before making that comment.

Utah State Senate:
Rep - 21
Dem - 8

Utah House of Representatives:
Rep - 53
Dem - 22

Utah Governor:
Jon Huntsman, Jr. - Rep

Utah United States House of Representatives:
Rep - 2
Dem - 1

Utah US Senators:
Rep - 2
Dem - 0


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## ashmaster (Oct 10, 2008)

Maybe I'm missing something, but how are they going to police this?


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## Doogie (Oct 15, 2007)

ashmaster said:


> Maybe I'm missing something, but how are they going to police this?


big brother and the internet police? my thoughts exactly


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## Tredegar (Nov 27, 2007)

Doesn't it go against interstate commerce laws?


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## Stroble_Cigars (Feb 27, 2009)

They've been trying to stop internet tobacco sales for a long time. It started with the major credit card companies banning internet/phone/mail order sales of tobacco. That was more of a guideline than a law, but...now it looks like we're going to start having actual laws against sales that aren't face-to-face.


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## goatfarmer (Feb 24, 2008)

zitro_joe said:


> Bro, I can clearly see that you really (I mean really) did not do your homework before making that comment.
> 
> Utah State Senate:
> Rep - 21
> ...


Exactly, I ear ya !!:ear:

Tuned into C-Span and caught the discussion of the Commission assigned to make recommendations for the Health Care Plan and just so happens the Representative for the American Heart Association's was making his suggestion of raising the tax on tobacco products $.62, and commented it would not only act to curb behavior :nono: but also a source of revenue. Get your email pens on the ready.:typing:


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## wolfmonk (Dec 14, 2008)

Wow. That is complete BS. The NannyState can kma.


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## Slowpokebill (Nov 29, 2008)

I may just have to become a law breaker.


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## RexBeck (Jan 19, 2009)

Slowpokebill said:


> I may just have to become a law breaker.


Oh yeah, me too. This is absolutely ridiculous. If this passes, I call RIOT.


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## hornitosmonster (Sep 5, 2006)

BigDaddyJ said:


> Watch out. Your state could be next!


Nah...no states really take Utah's lead...

I think Utah also has the worst liquor laws in place...


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## FN in MT (Jan 22, 2008)

hornitosmonster said:


> I think Utah also has the worst liquor laws in place...


Think it could be the Mormon influence??

FN in MT


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## Buddha024 (Jul 31, 2008)

zitro_joe said:


> Bro, I can clearly see that you really (I mean really) did not do your homework before making that comment.
> 
> Utah State Senate:
> Rep - 21
> ...


Thanks for this Joe. I love it when people just assume they know whats going on instead of actually checking it out.

:ss :w :ss


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## Dgar (Sep 12, 2006)

Buddha024 said:


> Thanks for this Joe. I love it when people just assume they know whats going on instead of actually checking it out.
> 
> :ss :w :ss


Yeah Bush caused the hurricanes in New Orleans, and the Dems in Utah passed this law...


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## golfermd (Feb 18, 2009)

goatfarmer said:


> Seem to recall Ca. residence occasionally threadened with simular legistation, fortunately rational minds prevail, if nothing else, does not take much to activate Ca. residents.


If memory serves me correctly the reason it didn't pass was because the Hollywood types vigorously protested that it would close down their cigar bars. See, even Dems understand simple economics. If you upset campaign contributors you don't get their funds.


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## Kasubot (Mar 5, 2009)

I should move out to Wyoming and start a smuggling busniess


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## goatfarmer (Feb 24, 2008)

Came across thread posted by Bill today, certainly appears there's at least 1 resident of Utah who knows how to party. Don't want to dump on the great state of Utah, as a resident of Ca. guess can't point fingers, but if I lived in Utah I would start looking for Bill's house. :bowdown:

http://www.cigarforums.net/forums/vb/smoking-action/245270-utah-december-herf.html


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## tx_tuff (Jun 16, 2007)

I don't see how this can even be legal to make this kind of ban! Its freaking crazy, somebody I'm sure will end up challenging this. 

I don't know what the Utah State Tax is on Cigars, but sounds time me like this may be a case of push out the B&Ms and the then ban the internet sales and bingo they win. Time to move LOL


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## RexBeck (Jan 19, 2009)

tx_tuff said:


> I don't see how this can even be legal to make this kind of ban! Its freaking crazy, somebody I'm sure will end up challenging this.
> 
> I don't know what the Utah State Tax is on Cigars, but sounds time me like this may be a case of push out the B&Ms and the then ban the internet sales and bingo they win. Time to move LOL


Oh yeah, there was a little B&M on Highland Drive (here in utah) called Double B Cigars, it was literally run out of business, along with a couple other B&M's the owner of Double B named off while I was chatting with her. What's happening here is absolutely ridiculous.


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## strider72 (Jan 25, 2009)

Sounds like a revenue problem to me... the want to make sure they get their money... greedy bastards.. Let's secede and start the Tobacco States of America... Cubans to everyone... Health nazis will taxed accordingly for their opinions....


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## Snake Hips (May 30, 2008)

strider72 said:


> Sounds like a revenue problem to me... the want to make sure they get their money... greedy bastards.. Let's secede and start the Tobacco States of America... Cubans to everyone... Health nazis will taxed accordingly for their opinions....


I say we lobby for massive coffee taxes. A cup of coffee contains over 400 known carcinogens, so we know what's best for you. Let's see if the libs dig on that one...


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## Vinnie (Nov 27, 2008)

Easy enough, we will all have to adopt a BOTL from Utah and have their product shipped to our place and then on to them. A pain, but thats what family does. 
Our AG in Wahington wants the same law passed, I may be asking someday myself.
Vinnie


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## Buddha024 (Jul 31, 2008)

Vinnie said:


> Easy enough, we will all have to adopt a BOTL from Utah and have their product shipped to our place and then on to them. A pain, but thats what family does.
> Vinnie


Great idea Vinnie. I would be willing to help, but I'm pretty far away from Utah.

:ss :w :ss


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## DBCcigar (Apr 24, 2008)

What BS!

The minors will just get their older friends to buy for them. They can't keep a lot of kids off drugs and drinking alcohol. What makes them think a *ucking vending machine and no Internet buying is going to keep them from getting what they want?!?


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## stfoley (Jul 28, 2008)

Here's what gets me.

To buy tobacco online, you need a credit card. CCs are not issued to minors.

So either the kid uses their parent's card (which they will be busted for), or the parent buys it for them, or they get another adult to buy it for them...either way it's a straw purchase and already illegal under current laws.

So why the F*** is there another law added for this? One that does nothing to slow down the underage smoker (who usually just steals their smokes anyways), but screws things up entirely for the law-abiding folks?

Something tells me they are planning a huge tax hike at the state level and are doing this to assure nobody buys out of state to avoid taxation.


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## wescoaststogie (Mar 30, 2009)

shouldn't be surprised what goes on in Utah considering the history of how much control the Mormon church has over everything that goes on in that state.

which is absolutely fine with me in fact, i believe in State's rights, and don't think the FEDS should be dictating every aspect of our lives. the freedom to choose to live where you want is a wonderful thing.


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## Sweet_Cigars (Oct 3, 2008)

Vinnie said:


> Easy enough, we will all have to adopt a BOTL from Utah and have their product shipped to our place and then on to them. A pain, but thats what family does.
> Our AG in Wahington wants the same law passed, I may be asking someday myself.
> Vinnie


If it comes to this I am down with helping out as many BOTL's as I can.


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## golfermd (Feb 18, 2009)

wescoaststogie said:


> which is absolutely fine with me in fact, i believe in State's rights, and don't think the FEDS should be dictating every aspect of our lives. the freedom to choose to live where you want is a wonderful thing.


Watch out, the thought police in the current administration may come after you. Unless you are a member of select groups your personal rights are subject to reduction at any moment...:nono:


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## orca99usa (May 23, 2008)

> Think it could be the Mormon influence??


Bingo. The Church of Latter Day Saints pretty much owns Utah and dictates what happens there. They don't have the most enlightened laws on the planet. I enjoy visiting there, but I believe I'll continue to live in Nevada.


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## wescoaststogie (Mar 30, 2009)

golfermd said:


> Watch out, the thought police in the current administration may come after you. Unless you are a member of select groups your personal rights are subject to reduction at any moment...:nono:


i know, it is truly sad that the libertarian viewpoint which directly follows the constitution, is considered so ridiculous as to barely even get a laugh anymore

am curious to see what the amero is going to be made of, mira gusto stainless ey?


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## Nickerson (Mar 19, 2009)

Snake Hips said:


> They're trying to prevent underage smoking...but they have tobacco vending machines?


HAHA, exactly my thoughts. Haven't seen those for 18 years in Massachusetts.


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## Slowpokebill (Nov 29, 2008)

I don't think you can totally blame the Mormon church here...but many in the state do believe that smoking is a horrible sin.

Also, this isn't really about protecting the kids ... as always they use that as a good excuse.

This is all about taxes. They don't want to miss a penny; so, they want people buying in state and paying the taxes. 

For me buying online isn't so much about beating the tax. For me it is about getting things I can't get. The nearest B&M is a 140 mile round trip drive. Their selection could be better. The other downside to the local B&Ms is they tend to rape and pillage when it comes to pricing.

There is a little warning here for everyone. Remember "it is about protecting kids" plays everywhere and all the states want those taxes. This legislation could be coming to a state near you.


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## benjamin (Jun 29, 2008)

any utah BOTL's who want to order from the internet, i volunteer to be yer proxy


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## dj1340 (Mar 30, 2009)

I lived in Ogden, Ut for 3 years a long time ago and at times thought there was a time warp. Many of the laws are still in effect today with only 3.2 beer and the liquor laws. Remember going into a bar with a bottle in a brown bag. You order a coke for Example for a mixure and they charged me $1. 
Beautiful state but still have very different ideas about things.
It's their thing I guess.


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## Slowpokebill (Nov 29, 2008)

Here is a link to the new law. Ouch! the penalty is up to $5k. The good is there is no money appropriated to enforce the law. More bad is it looks like they are most likely to go after the dealers than the buyer. So, I hope some of the dealers will be willing to ignore the new law and continue business as usual when it comes to shipping to Utah.

http://le.utah.gov/~2009/bills/sbillenr/sb0228.pdf


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## longburn (Mar 28, 2009)

Now wait....it said the bill would limit smokers to buying from retail stores and VENDING MACHINES??!!

Soooo,,since when does a vending machine stop underage smokers? Why can't they just come out and say it,......they don't like giving up the taxes from the tobacco sales.


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## Slowpokebill (Nov 29, 2008)

This bill has nothing to do with keeping kids from buying tabacco products (that just an easy way to sell the bill) it has everything to do with collecting tax from internet sales. The states hate that they don't collect sales and other taxes when people buy products online. More than once the Utah legislation has talked about making out of state businesses pay sales tax on internet purchases being shipped into the state.

I guess if you can't force those busnisses to collect and pay tax then you can make it illegal to sale and ship the product into the state.

This law would go away tomorrow if the companies selling tabacco online said they would charge, collect and pay the state taxes.

It is always about the money.


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