# More Middleton tobacco discontinuations (incl Sugar Barrel)



## jfdiii (Nov 12, 2010)

With the holidays I almost forgot...news is a couple weeks old, so may have already been shared

The following packings of John Middleton pipe are now discontinued. Existing wholesale and retailer inventories are all that are left.

Sugar Barrel
Walnut
Kentucky Cub regular, mixture, continental
Gold & Mild
Royal Comfort
Wine Berry

PA crimp cut 1.5 tin
Cherry Blend tub

Get em while you can!


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## jfdiii (Nov 12, 2010)

PS if enough people complain, they will bring discontinued items back. They did it for some Black and Mild flavor before, and Skoal did the same for apple, so they do listen.


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## commonsenseman (Apr 18, 2008)

It's a shame to see any tobacco discontinued!


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## freestoke (Feb 13, 2011)

Sugar Barrel!? Not Sugar Barrel!! 

Well -- I do have some left. Very little, but some. out:


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## Tobias Lutz (Feb 18, 2013)

Holy crap! I'm still sitting on 14oz tubs of all three Kentucky Club blends, but I think I only have a couple ounces of Sugar Barrel and Walnut. It's kinda sad because to me it speaks to a decline in the "good ole' boy" type pipe smokers like my grandfather who were never interested in English blends or fancy tins. They simply burned OTC baccy day in and day out in Dr. Grabows and the like.


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## Tobias Lutz (Feb 18, 2013)

commonsenseman said:


> It's a shame to see any tobacco discontinued!


:bitchslap: Mixture no.79 ???


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## commonsenseman (Apr 18, 2008)

Tobias Lutz said:


> :bitchslap: Mixture no.79 ???


I think it's a shame to see ANY tobacco discontinued for exactly the reason you mentioned above. It's another piece of the past, lost.

Of course if there was any vile, terrible, poisonous concoction I wouldn't even wish upon my worst enemy, "the mixture" would be at the top of the list.


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## El wedo del milagro (Jul 3, 2012)

It boggles my mind how so many Ennerdale fans bad-talk M79.


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## Gigmaster (Jan 12, 2009)

I'm OK with it as long as they keep my beloved Prince Albert. I always keep a tub around.


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## JimInks (Nov 11, 2012)

Was there an official release for this info? Seems weird they cancel all of those blends.


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## freestoke (Feb 13, 2011)

El wedo del milagro said:


> It boggles my mind how so many Ennerdale fans bad-talk M79.


:biglaugh: Ennerdale might smell bad, but at least it isn't 50% PG by weight or fill your pipe with goop that resembles toxic industrial waste. :lol: I must say that I have actually smoked it before, about 40 years ago, when Hugh Hefner represented all to which young men my age aspired. Not even the promise of Bunnies swooning in the wake of its irresistible aroma was enough to allow me to finish the pouch, and I returned to the Flying Dutchman. (*http://www.cigarforums.net/forums/vb/pipe-related-reviews/289091-memories-lost-flying-dutchman.html* Replete with errors, I had to be drunk when I wrote this. :beerchug


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## Tobias Lutz (Feb 18, 2013)

El wedo del milagro said:


> It boggles my mind how so many Ennerdale fans bad-talk M79.


Now in my defense- I've never smoked Ennerdale. I think I have a tin, but haven't cracked it yet. Is that the "juicy fruit" tobacco? I have suffered through some no.79 however :biggrin:


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## JimInks (Nov 11, 2012)

I called Middleton and the lady there said they didn't have any information about their products, except for what's on their web site. Some help they are! The woman repeated the same answer for every question I asked. I asked if anybody there might know the answer. She didn't know, but suggested for the fourth time that I check the website. Geeezzzzz...


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## freestoke (Feb 13, 2011)

Tobias Lutz said:


> Now in my defense- I've never smoked Ennerdale. I think I have a tin, but haven't cracked it yet. Is that the "juicy fruit" tobacco? I have suffered through some no.79 however :biggrin:


Erinmore Flake is the "juicy fruit of tobacco", according to Mister Moo. Ennerdale is more like scented bath oil.


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## jfdiii (Nov 12, 2010)

Most retailers should be aware of the discontinuations by the end of the month as their Altria reps visit them. But don't be surprised if the info is slow getting out, the reps have many more important product lines to talk to retailers about. These obviously aren't products that were flying off the shelves nor available in most stores anymore. It's sadly just a product line that does not get much attention these days. The writing has been on the wall for a while, but some legacy brands tend to hang on for a while despite unprofitability(Black and Mild cigars are Middleton's money makers). For all I know there is still a whole warehouse full of Middleton pipe tobacco that will last for a while. For what it's worth, I bought $180 worth of tubs when I found out....


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## Tobias Lutz (Feb 18, 2013)

jfdiii said:


> For what it's worth, I bought $180 worth of tubs when I found out....


I plan on doing something similar in a week or two. Thanks for the heads up.


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## gahdzila (Apr 29, 2010)

Joe - thanks for the heads up.

Where did you come across this info?

KC and Wine Berry and Royal Comfort being discontinued is something I can live with. But SB and Walnut?!? I find this hard to swallow. I'm not saying I don't believe you, but....geeze...maybe I'm just in denial LOL. Judging from chatter on the pipe forums, I would think that they sell as much SB and Walnut as they do CH.


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## freestoke (Feb 13, 2011)

gahdzila said:


> Joe - thanks for the heads up.
> 
> Where did you come across this info?
> 
> KC and Wine Berry and Royal Comfort being discontinued is something I can live with. But SB and Walnut?!? I find this hard to swallow. I'm not saying I don't believe you, but....geeze...maybe I'm just in denial LOL. Judging from chatter on the pipe forums, I would think that they sell as much SB and Walnut as they do CH.


Walnut is their first blend, isn't it? (Just from memory, not a factoid.) I rather like it, but it's so mild that it needs some help, like KK or Dark Birdseye. In the words of Nachman,, "I feel like I haven't smoked yet." :lol:

I would definitely have thought that SB was a decent seller, but have always suspected that the name Walnut held down sales because people would be afraid it tasted like walnuts. sigh. *Tempus edax rerum.*


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## Gigmaster (Jan 12, 2009)

Really? I don't see much of a comparasin between them. One is a premium tobacco, and the other is an OTC blend, which I find a little on the nasty side. Ennerdale, while not my favorite, is a wonderful smoking experience.

Personally, I gave my heart to Gawith Hoggarth Louisiana Flake a few weeks ago, and so far, I have remained faithful......:biggrin:



El wedo del milagro said:


> It boggles my mind how so many Ennerdale fans bad-talk M79.


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## freestoke (Feb 13, 2011)

Gigmaster said:


> Really? I don't see much of a comparasin between them. One is a premium tobacco, and the other is an OTC blend, which I find a little on the nasty side. Ennerdale, while not my favorite, is a wonderful smoking experience.
> 
> Personally, I gave my heart to Gawith Hoggarth Louisiana Flake a few weeks ago, and so far, I have remained faithful......:biggrin:


The only comparison would be the degree of loathing meted out to each. M79 seems to me the equivalent of a bowl of inedible chili from a low-rent greasy spoon, while Ennerdale would be more like perfectly prepared escargot from a posh restaurant, a dish that I would personally be unable to eat. I would put SWR in the "good hamburger from a dive category", PA being their cheap but excellent chili.


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## gahdzila (Apr 29, 2010)

freestoke said:


> Walnut is their first blend, isn't it? (Just from memory, not a factoid.)


I'm not sure. I've heard that it is one of their original blends, first blended by Mr. Middleton himself for his B&M tobacco store. It is named after Walnut Street, the location of Mr. Middleton's original B&M. (from my fuzzy memory, I'm not 100% sure either).



freestoke said:


> I rather like it [Walnut], but it's so mild that it needs some help, like KK or Dark Birdseye. In the words of Nachman,, "I feel like I haven't smoked yet." :lol:


I like it quite a lot, and smoke it fairly regularly. It is very tasty, but you're right that it's mild and needs a little help,. I smoke it the same way I smoke Prince Albert - in a cob with a big pinch of Five Brothers mixed in.


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## Tobias Lutz (Feb 18, 2013)

Well I called my "local" B&M (90 minutes away) Milan Tobacconists to check on their stock of a couple tub blends and asked them if they had heard about this. They said they got word from their sales rep on yesterday and they listed all the blends noted here. Stock up boys, they're gone for good. :rip: :sorry: :banghead:


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## MarkC (Jul 4, 2009)

I'm not affected by this at all, but I can't help wondering what the future holds for Carter Hall and the Prince. Maybe I should buy a tub of each for luck...


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## jfdiii (Nov 12, 2010)

MarkC said:


> I'm not affected by this at all, but I can't help wondering what the future holds for Carter Hall and the Prince. Maybe I should buy a tub of each for luck...


Their future IS in your hands. It's like buying a moon pie and an RC cola for your kid every Saturday, even if you aren't crazy about them (the snacks, not your kid). I just don't like the thought of a world without them. 
That being said, I am a firm believer in Capitalism and that inferior products should go away, Kentucky Club and Walnut aren't really all that great compared to many of the blends available today. The best thing about the Middleton products is that they burn all the way through with no relights and don't bite. Perfect for a cob and a lawnmower or the drive home.


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## gahdzila (Apr 29, 2010)

Gentlemen - 

I've looked around a bit, and haven't seen any other confirmation of these tobaccos being discontinued.

I've reposted this on two other pipe forums - three seperate sources have said this rumor is UNTRUE, and the above listed tobaccos have NOT been discontinued by Middletons.


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## jfdiii (Nov 12, 2010)

LOL, what do you want? Another member posted above that they confirmed with Milan and I said myself that it may take awhile for the reps to get the word out. But I'm just some guy on the internet, what do I know? Maybe I just like to come on here and make stuff up.


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## Tobias Lutz (Feb 18, 2013)

gahdzila said:


> Gentlemen -
> 
> I've looked around a bit, and haven't seen any other confirmation of these tobaccos being discontinued.
> 
> I've reposted this on two other pipe forums - three seperate sources have said this rumor is UNTRUE, and the above listed tobaccos have NOT been discontinued by Middletons.


I guess my only question would be how this "rumor" was spread to a local Virginia tobacconist via a Middleton Rep. Contact these guys Milan Tobacconists in Roanoke Virginia and ask them. I too was wary (not to insult the OP, I generally question anything like this I first see on the internet), but when I contact a B&M and they tell me that their Altria rep contacted them and they even read from a list provided as to what other Middleton blends smokers can switch to depending on preference, I'll take that over what might be read in a dozen pipe/cigar chatrooms.


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## jfdiii (Nov 12, 2010)

:thumb: Sounds reasonable to me, Tobias.
I just wanted to give a heads up. Even if I said my wife is a rep for Altria and that's how I heard about it, it doesn't make me any more credible IMO. You did the right thing and were able to confirm it independently. I know for a fact that her retailers have been informed, but not all reps are superstars like her. :yo:


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## gahdzila (Apr 29, 2010)

jfdiii said:


> LOL, what do you want? Another member posted above that they confirmed with Milan and I said myself that it may take awhile for the reps to get the word out. But I'm just some guy on the internet, what do I know? Maybe I just like to come on here and make stuff up.


I'm sorry. I didn't mean to insult you.

Put yourself in my shoes. You just posted that one of my favorite tobaccos has been discontinued. I asked you where you heard this, and you did not post your source (in your credit, maybe you just missed my post). I looked at Middleton's website - nothing confirming your statements. Another member here called Middleton's, who would have a vested interest in getting the word out to everyone to stock up - again, nothing to confirm your statements. Needless to say, I was skeptical to begin with.

I did a scan of a few other pipe forums and found no other posts about this. I reposted your OP on two other pipe forums. I would post links to the threads, but the admin and mods here frown on that. I'll PM them to anyone interested. Anyway - one gentleman contacted the public relations department at Middleton's and was told that this rumor is untrue. Another gentleman is a tobacconist - he hadn't heard anything about this, and he said he spoke with two different people at Middleton's office, and no one knew anything about this. He also pointed me to the press release website of Altria, the parent company of Middleton's, and there's nothing there about this either.

I'm not trying to start a flame war, and I'm not calling you a liar. But the only place I've heard this is from you (and you still haven't revealed your source) and Tobias, and I've heard from multiple sources that it's not true. Again, I'm not calling ANYONE a liar, I am not trying to insult anyone, I just wanted to post the results of my own research here for the other gentlemen to see.


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## jfdiii (Nov 12, 2010)

My. Wife. Works. For. Altria.
Tobacco companies don't issue press releases for discontinuations. They don't comment on discontinuations as it brings attention to the fact that they have brands that have failed. They have an obligation to inform their retailers of discontinuations and give guidance on how to guide consumers into purchasing alternative packings that they continue to manufacture.


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## jfdiii (Nov 12, 2010)

No offense taken though, you have the right to be skeptical.


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## Gigmaster (Jan 12, 2009)

The brands may not necessarily be failing, but a lot of companies are down-sizing and economizing, laying people off, and such, partially due to ObamaCare requirements, the federal budget boondoggles, and the roller-coaster stocks. They may just want to concentrate their efforts on their bigger-selling brands. You may not have noticed it, but a lot of restaurants are trimming down their menus, and many retailers are cutting their stocks, lately. It just seems to be a general trend right now.



jfdiii said:


> My. Wife. Works. For. Altria.
> Tobacco companies don't issue press releases for discontinuations. They don't comment on discontinuations as it brings attention to the fact that they have brands that have failed. They have an obligation to inform their retailers of discontinuations and give guidance on how to guide consumers into purchasing alternative packings that they continue to manufacture.


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## freestoke (Feb 13, 2011)

All sorts of possibilities here, among them the "telephone game" phenomenon, whereby either Joe's wife either misunderstood the original marching orders ever so slightly or Joe misunderstood what his wife told him. The confusion could even go farther up the chain of command, where the original idea stemmed from an idea that cropped up in a meeting for getting rid of Sugar Barrel, Walnut, etc., and they wanted the sales reps to see if they could get their vendors to replace their Middleton blends with something from the standard Atria line, which then morphed into "Tell the vendors we are getting rid of Middleton and here are their choices to replace it," as the marching orders trickled down to the troops in the field. But the tea leaves warn of danger; Mars is ascending; All signs are hostile. :lol:

I'm still mourning the demise of Balkan Sobranie Smoking Mixture. out:


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## Tobias Lutz (Feb 18, 2013)

freestoke said:


> But the tea leaves warn of danger; Mars is ascending; All signs are hostile. :lol:


RFLMAO!


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## JimInks (Nov 11, 2012)

I almost hate to add to the fire, but I just read this on another pipe forum from a guy who got this straight from Milan Tobacconists:

Middleton Pipe Tobacco [Excludes Cigars] Customers: We were recently advised by our distributor that the John Middleton Co. has discontinued the following blends effective immediately: Cherry Blend - 12 oz. Canister; Gold & Mild - 1 1/2 oz. Pouch; Kentucky Club Continental, Mixture & Regular Blends - 12 & 14 oz. Canisters and 1 1/2 oz. Packet; Prince Albert - 1 1/2 oz. Tin Style Packet; Royal Comfort - 1 1/2 oz. Pouch; Sugar Barrel - 12 oz. Canister; Walnut - 12 oz. Canister; and Wine Berry - 1 1/2 oz. Pouch. Milan Tobacconists has been given the green light to inform our customers that a major player in the pipe tobacco industry is working on comparable blends, although a release date is not known at this time. Please feel free to contact us by email [[email protected]] or phone [877-70MILAN] with any questions, concerns, or if you are interested in our recommendations on potential replacement blends in the interim.


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## MarkC (Jul 4, 2009)

You know, I thought they stopped making the PA tin years ago. I feel silly with an empty one displayed on a bookshelf now...


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## freestoke (Feb 13, 2011)

MarkC said:


> You know, I thought they stopped making the PA tin years ago. I feel silly with an empty one displayed on a bookshelf now...


:shock: Really! I thought the can went away in the 60s! I thought all that was left were the cardboard boxes with the pouch inside! :ask: I have a 1950-ish, rusted, unopened PA can in the cabinet, which I can only justify as a collectible now with the old tax stamp. out:


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## JimInks (Nov 11, 2012)

I spoke with Rich at 4Noggins today, and he said he hasn't had any word about Middleton canceling any blends. Since he sells a lot of them, I'm waiting for an official announcement before I believe it.


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## Tobias Lutz (Feb 18, 2013)

JimInks said:


> I spoke with Rich at 4Noggins today, and he said he hasn't had any word about Middleton canceling any blends. *Since he sells a lot of them*, I'm waiting for an official announcement before I believe it.


He should be disappointed in his rep for falling down on the job then. Not to beat a dead horse, but I stopped in the JRs in Burlington. NC this afternoon and chatted with one of the managers there. He was notified by his rep, last week. Same communication Milan received, different Altria rep. :deadhorse:


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## JimInks (Nov 11, 2012)

Well, that sounds more like something to believe, Tobias. I was skeptical, especially since a guy on another forum said he talked to a rep at Middleton, who denied the cancellations.

I'm about 25 minutes from JR's in Burlington. They have a decent pipe tobacco selection, but it used to be better.


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## Tobias Lutz (Feb 18, 2013)

JimInks said:


> Well, that sounds more like something to believe, Tobias. I was skeptical, especially since a guy on another forum said he talked to a rep at Middleton, who denied the cancellations.
> 
> I'm about 25 minutes from JR's in Burlington. They have a decent pipe tobacco selection, but it used to be better.


Have you been there since they expanded and put in the nice counter about a year ago? They said they were looking to try and add even more soon. I was picking up some of the 4th Generation Founder's that just came out and he said he's had Peter Stokkebye in the store a couple times since he lives near Charlotte. The manager I spoke with was a younger guy (my age/early thirties) and he seems to be interested in having a nice pipe store there.


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## JimInks (Nov 11, 2012)

Tobias Lutz said:


> Have you been there since they expanded and put in the nice counter about a year ago? They said they were looking to try and add even more soon. I was picking up some of the 4th Generation Founder's that just came out and he said he's had Peter Stokkebye in the store a couple times since he lives near Charlotte. The manager I spoke with was a younger guy (my age/early thirties) and he seems to be interested in having a nice pipe store there.


Yes. I was there about two months ago, and couple of times before that. They have a better pipe selection than they used to, but they used to carry more blends than they did the last time I was there. It does seem like they are starting to care more now.

The JR's in Selma is pathetic now. A bunch of pipes unattractively crammed into a counter case, and a fraction of the pipe tobacco they used to carry, with lot of Super Value and Smoker's Choice blends, and a small display of tins from MacBaren, McClelland, and a couple of other companies. And they didn't seem interested in helping their customers. I helped two older ladies decide on a pipe and tobacco they wanted to get their brother for his birthday. He had just quit cigarettes, and wanted to try pipe smoking. Those ladies just stood there and stood there, waiting for help, and getting none, while the attendant behind the counter was gabbing with a couple of friends about what they were going to be doing that evening. So I walked over and helped the ladies out.


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## Deuce Da Masta (Dec 4, 2006)

pipesandcigars.com has it posted on each that they have been discontinued for what its worth....

im grabbing a couple of tubs of sugar barrel just in case.


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## freestoke (Feb 13, 2011)

Deuce Da Masta said:


> pipesandcigars.com has it posted on each that they have been discontinued for what its worth....
> 
> im grabbing a couple of tubs of sugar barrel just in case.


I finally decided not to get any more. Pity it's gone, but it's a bit light for my tastes. I basically would only use it at aromatic filler for KK or something, and I prefer a few other aromatics for that purpose. I feel similarly about Walnut, which is okay, but too mild.


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## Kevin Keith (Jan 24, 2010)

It's now more than a year since the first post in this thread and, as far as I know, Middleton still hasn't admitted to the discontinuation of some of our favorite OTCs. H&H Mid-Town Series now has matches for Walnut and Sugar Barrel. They even have matches for the current production Carter Hall and Prince Albert. Good prices to boot! Stick that in your pipe and smoke it Middleton. :crazy:


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## JimInks (Nov 11, 2012)

Kevin Keith said:


> It's now more than a year since the first post in this thread and, as far as I know, Middleton still hasn't admitted to the discontinuation of some of our favorite OTCs. H&H Mid-Town Series now has matches for Walnut and Sugar Barrel. They even have matches for the current production Carter Hall and Prince Albert. Good prices to boot! Stick that in your pipe and smoke it Middleton. :crazy:


Middleton rep bald faced lied to me and to others about their blends being discontinued. I won't forget that.


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## MarkC (Jul 4, 2009)

So what are you going to do, boycott Sugar Barrel?


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## 455 Punch (Nov 24, 2013)

This may have been a decision that was rolled out in communication, but later reconsidered, and never ultimately executed. I see it all the time first-hand with bigger or publicly traded organizations that have changes in management or mergers/acquisitions where a seemingly simple smart decision from the newcomer (which is actually stupid decision from a business financial standpoint) is rethought when smarter heads prevail. But all too often, the stupid decision is executed past the point of no return. Happens more than one would think. The driving cause is a desire for short-term success (quick satisfaction and shareholder reward), at the demise of longer term success (can't look too many quarters or years ahead, fast money doesn't care about that).


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## cpmcdill (Jan 11, 2014)

It would only be justice if P&C's matches turn out to be higher quality versions of the Middleton blends. I've been compiling a list of what's going into my next order, and the Walnut match is on it (influenced by @JimInks 4-star rating at Tobacco Reviews).

[incidentally, anyone else notice that the prices of bulk match blends at P&C increased, sometimes quite dramatically, in the past month or so? Briggs nearly doubled. It's not enough to deter me, but enough to make me regret not making a big purchase back in December before the prices changed.]


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## JimInks (Nov 11, 2012)

MarkC said:


> So what are you going to do, boycott Sugar Barrel?


Awww, go fry an egg!!!! :razz::rotfl:

Seriously, you never know when something might go around and come back again. I can handle any kind of news and most any kind of situation, and I'm mostly a forgiving person, but I don't like to be directly lied to. I expect Middleton will mostly stay out of the pipe tobacco business now, but you never know what the future brings.

@cpmcdill, I've smoked all the Mid-Town blends except for the Carter Hall Match. I think they are all on par or better. The Cherry Match is better (no bite and smoother), the PA Match is close, but not quite, Walnut and KCA Matches are almost exact, and I doubt most people could tell the difference in a blind taste test. The Sugar Barrel Match is just a little off, but it's in the ball park, and I liked it as much as I liked the original, maybe a little more, since the flavor doesn't flash off near the finish as it occasionally would with the original SB.


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## Tobias Lutz (Feb 18, 2013)

JimInks said:


> Middleton rep bald faced lied to me and to others about their blends being discontinued. I won't forget that.





Kevin Keith said:


> It's now more than a year since the first post in this thread and, as far as I know, Middleton still hasn't admitted to the discontinuation of some of our favorite OTCs. H&H Mid-Town Series now has matches for Walnut and Sugar Barrel. They even have matches for the current production Carter Hall and Prince Albert. Good prices to boot! Stick that in your pipe and smoke it Middleton. :crazy:


Maybe I'm missing something here, but the rep to my local shop had them start putting the word out about ALL the discontinued blends within 7 days of the talk just beginning to circulate on the internet. I then had it confirmed by other shops last January who were contacted by their Middleton reps. :???:


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## freestoke (Feb 13, 2011)

I have a pint jar of SB and a quart of Walnut. Is it time to install a home security system for my cellar, or would it be cheaper to get a large safety deposit box at the bank?


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## gahdzila (Apr 29, 2010)

I bought a couple of pounds of Walnut, so I'm good to go for a while on that one. I didn't really care for Sugar Barrel anyway. And I've been sampling other burley blends lately (PS Cube Cut, C&D Pegasus, etc) and find them as good or better than the codger blends, and not much of a price difference either....so even if my beloved PA goes away, there are other things out there that could take its place in my cellar.

I haven't tried the H&H mid-town blends yet, but if jiminks saysays they're close, then I'm definitely putting them on my "to-try" list. The prices are good too!


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## JimInks (Nov 11, 2012)

cpmcdill said:


> It would only be justice if P&C's matches turn out to be higher quality versions of the Middleton blends. I've been compiling a list of what's going into my next order, and the Walnut match is on it (influenced by @JimInks 4-star rating at Tobacco Reviews).
> 
> [incidentally, anyone else notice that the prices of bulk match blends at P&C increased, sometimes quite dramatically, in the past month or so? Briggs nearly doubled. It's not enough to deter me, but enough to make me regret not making a big purchase back in December before the prices changed.]





Tobias Lutz said:


> Maybe I'm missing something here, but the rep to my local shop had them start putting the word out about ALL the discontinued blends within 7 days of the talk just beginning to circulate on the internet. I then had it confirmed by other shops last January who were contacted by their Middleton reps. :???:


I talked to two Middleton reps on the telephone and was told it wasn't happening no matter what I was reading on the internet. I told them that Milan Tobacconists said it was true, and one of them said "They don't know what they are talking about. It's not true" I have seen on pipe forums a few others who got similar responses. As I believe it was Milan who initially broke the news, we can see who knew what they were talking about and who did not... though I still believe they intentionally lied to me.


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## LandonColby (Sep 3, 2013)

JimInks said:


> I talked to two Middleton reps on the telephone and was told it wasn't happening no matter what I was reading on the internet. I told them that Milan Tobacconists said it was true, and one of them said "They don't know what they are talking about. It's not true" I have seen on pipe forums a few others who got similar responses. As I believe it was Milan who initially broke the news, we can see who knew what they were talking about and who did not... though I still believe they intentionally lied to me.


Maybe a deal was struck so P&C could produce a match in peace and no others would jump on the market. Making lying to you a necessary evil. I dont know...just playing the optimist.


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## JimInks (Nov 11, 2012)

cpmcdill said:


> It would only be justice if P&C's matches turn out to be higher quality versions of the Middleton blends. I've been compiling a list of what's going into my next order, and the Walnut match is on it (influenced by @JimInks 4-star rating at Tobacco Reviews).
> 
> [incidentally, anyone else notice that the prices of bulk match blends at P&C increased, sometimes quite dramatically, in the past month or so? Briggs nearly doubled. It's not enough to deter me, but enough to make me regret not making a big purchase back in December before the prices changed.]





LandonColby said:


> Maybe a deal was struck so P&C could produce a match in peace and no others would jump on the market. Making lying to you a necessary evil. I dont know...just playing the optimist.


Nope. Didn't happen that way. I know that for sure because _I_ was the one who first told Sutliff about the Middleton cancellations, and I immediately suggested they copy them, which they'd have done whether I suggested it or not. I don't know exactly when P&C came into the picture, but that came afterward, and the entire idea of Matches likely didn't occur to Middleton when they lied to me, which was the very day I talked to Sutliff. I understand being an optimist and looking for something benign here, but there's just no excuse for lying in this case.


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## Tobias Lutz (Feb 18, 2013)

JimInks said:


> I talked to two Middleton reps on the telephone and was told it wasn't happening no matter what I was reading on the internet. I told them that Milan Tobacconists said it was true, and one of them said "They don't know what they are talking about. It's not true" I have seen on pipe forums a few others who got similar responses. As I believe it was Milan who initially broke the news, we can see who knew what they were talking about and who did not... though I still believe they intentionally lied to me.


Gotcha! I guess it helps that Milan is my local tobacconist :lol: I do recall there was a bit of inconsistency with who was hearing what when this first went down.


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