# A NC versus Cheap Havana challenge



## bpegler (Mar 30, 2006)

Gentlemen,

We love to argue about NCs and CCs here. So I have a challenge for you. I need one BOTL who feels that NCs are better to smoke a little machine made Havana, and do a taste test versus your favorite NC. Padron, Forbidden X, it really doesn't matter.

This MM is small and ugly. It had short fillers. The wrapper has blotches. The only advantage it has is that it's a 1994 H Upmann Regalia, so it has old, cheap, chopped up Havana filler.

The rules are simple. Post here on this thread, and I will pick a winner who appreciates great cigars and seems likely to give an unbiased review. Cigar versus cigar, and if my little cigar wins, just admit it publicly on your review.

Just that simple, and I hope this is a lot of fun.

Post away my friends.


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## AStateJB (Oct 13, 2011)

This sounds interesting. Subscribed to see the results.


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## Lrbergin (Jun 14, 2012)

I don't believe I'm worthy of the challenge, but I'm very interested in the results.


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## Jordan23 (May 25, 2012)

Subscribed Bob. Watching this should be interesting. I too am interested in how this turns out.


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## Oldmso54 (Jul 31, 2010)

Yes - interesting indeed - watching to see the results


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## jurgenph (Jun 29, 2011)

i don't have much cc experience under my belt... okay, very little cc experience  and the few that i do have are taking a long nap now 
so i'm not the guy who claims one origin is better than the other, my sample size is unbalanced, hah.
that said... i have yet to find a cigar that puts a smile on my face like a padron '64 does.

looking forward to see what it gets matched up with 


J.


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## bpegler (Mar 30, 2006)

Lrbergin said:


> I don't believe I'm worthy of the challenge, but I'm very interested in the results.


I see a Padron 64 in your profile, perhaps that might be a worthy contender? If you're interested, don't take yourself out of the mix...


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## teedles915 (Jun 18, 2009)

This should be good, definitely interested in the results. Thanks for doing this Bob.


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## Guest (Sep 13, 2012)

I'd like to toss my name out there. I don't necessarily think NC or CCs are better than each other, but I have by and far felt that most CCs have not lived up to the hype. That being said, the PSD4 is my favorite, so that does not mean that I am biased against CCs. I would honestly like to stack this up against a Tatuaje brown label torpedo, generously gifted to me by Wallbright. The one I had before was one of the most dynamic cigars I have ever smoked and feel it would provide really decent competition to the cigar in question


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## hardcz (Aug 1, 2007)

I'm game... you can check a few of the reviews I posted in the NC area... mostly have been a cc smoker the last 4 years


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## exprime8 (May 16, 2011)

I have only smoked a couple of cubans, so im not good for this challenge, but an aged cheap Cuban .vs. an aged Opus X or a Casa Fuente... im going to go with the Opus and C.F. for the win, but I em very interested in reading the results...


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## bpegler (Mar 30, 2006)

exprime8 said:


> I have only smoked a couple of cubans, so im not good for this challenge, but an aged cheap Cuban .vs. an aged Opus X or a Casa Fuente... im going to go with the Opus and C.F. for the win, but I em very interested in reading the results...


Jose,

You don't need to have smoked any Havanas at all to be a part of this. This little machine made smoke is so cheap that it's frightening to behold. I mean, it's powerfully ugly. Imagine one of those 50 cent throwaways.

Sure you don't want to be in the mix?


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## chris1360 (Mar 15, 2012)

I dunno boss... a Padron 44 year natural vs a MM CC sounds like a good competition... But I love Habano so i am out. Good idea!


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## exprime8 (May 16, 2011)

bpegler said:


> Jose,
> 
> You don't need to have smoked any Havanas at all to be a part of this. This little machine made smoke is so cheap that it's frightening to behold. I mean, it's powerfully ugly. Imagine one of those 50 cent throwaways.
> 
> Sure you don't want to be in the mix?


well what do I have to loose, lets do it!!!


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## E Dogg (Mar 23, 2011)

I would love to be in the mix... I'm at the stage where I'm still trying a bunch of different cc's. Some of the best so far is an H.Upmann pc from '03 :dr and a siglo VI from '04 that I got from Matt last night. Another :dr

I am learning to appreciate them more and more but I gotta be honest. To date, I think I've had more nc's with higher approval rates wile the cc's have been hit and miss. BUT, most of my cc's have been pretty fresh, soooo....:wink:


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## johnmoss (Jun 18, 2010)

I'm interested.


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## Lrbergin (Jun 14, 2012)

bpegler said:


> I see a Padron 64 in your profile, perhaps that might be a worthy contender? If you're interested, don't take yourself out of the mix...


I suppose you are correct. I've smoked some of what the general population considers to be among best the most readily available NC's. I'll throw my name in the hat. Plus I'd like to see how ugly this cigar really is.


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## StogieNinja (Jul 29, 2009)

opcorn:


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## CeeGar (Feb 19, 2007)

This is a great, Bob. Subscribed...


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## TonyBrooklyn (Jan 28, 2010)

Can't wait to see the results!
This thread is a great idea!
Can't believe more people didn't sign up!


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## bpegler (Mar 30, 2006)

TonyBrooklyn said:


> Can't wait to see the results!
> This thread is a great idea!
> Can't believe more people didn't sign up!


I just hope that it's fun, Tony. A real David versus Goliath. I'll make a pick tomorrow.


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## asmartbull (Aug 16, 2009)

Great idea......where are all the "NC's are better than CC guys" when you need them...
Watch the WTS section for deals on Padron's and Opus's next week....:rotfl:


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## splattttttt (May 17, 2012)

bpegler said:


> Jose,
> 
> You don't need to have smoked any Havanas at all to be a part of this. This little machine made smoke is so cheap that it's frightening to behold. I mean, it's powerfully ugly. Imagine one of those 50 cent throwaways.
> 
> Sure you don't want to be in the mix?


Why not put up two top contenders against each other? Just askin.


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## jurgenph (Jun 29, 2011)

splattttttt said:


> Why not put up two top contenders against each other? Just askin.


he only has one ugly stick left 

J.


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## piperdown (Jul 19, 2009)

Interesting Bob. Will be curious to see the outcome.


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## WyldKnyght (Apr 1, 2011)

I'm always game for a Blind Review, if not I'm definitely interested in the results.


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## bpegler (Mar 30, 2006)

Pale Horse said:


> I'd like to toss my name out there. I don't necessarily think NC or CCs are better than each other, but I have by and far felt that most CCs have not lived up to the hype. That being said, the PSD4 is my favorite, so that does not mean that I am biased against CCs. I would honestly like to stack this up against a Tatuaje brown label torpedo, generously gifted to me by Wallbright. The one I had before was one of the most dynamic cigars I have ever smoked and feel it would provide really decent competition to the cigar in question


After some thought, this post won. A couple reasons:

Aaron had a specific, very solid stick to bring to the competition.

I appreciate his service, in the middle of nowhere. Let's face it, his distractions should be minimal.

So Aaron, please send me some details via PM so this package actually reaches you.

And thank you for your service.


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## StogieNinja (Jul 29, 2009)

Awesome! Looking forward to the review Aaron, and Bob, you couldn't have picked a better target!


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## Guest (Sep 14, 2012)

bpegler said:


> After some thought, this post won. A couple reasons:
> 
> Aaron had a specific, very solid stick to bring to the competition.
> 
> ...


Bob I'm very humbled to be chosen! I haven't done too many reviews, but I promise you guys that I'll make it a worthwhile read!


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## splattttttt (May 17, 2012)

Pale Horse said:


> Bob I'm very humbled to be chosen! I haven't done too many reviews, but I promise you guys that I'll make it a worthwhile read!


Regardless of your writhing skill, it's your palet that needs to be in tip top shape.
May the cohiba gods, where ever rhe may be, help guide you with all the sensory powers necessary to carry out this valuble mission.


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## fuente~fuente (May 11, 2009)

Subscribed...

I'm in the boat that some people are just enamored & jaded by the whole forbidden fruit aspect of CC's. I believe it a taste preference... Anybody that tells you that CC's are better are giving you their opinion on their _taste_ preference. CC construction in a lot of cases to me, isn't as decent to a comparable NC, again, in my opinion.

I am a objective bi-partisan BTW


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## mata777 (Jul 11, 2011)

Can't wait for the results. Thanks for putting this together. 

My personal theory on habanos is that too many people smoke them before resting or aging them. The way I see it take the band off a 6 month rested hdm ep.2 and take the band off a similar sized nc robusto in the 8.00-10.00 range and offer them up to an experienced smoker to compare. I think you would be hard pressed to find an nc in the 8-10 dollar range that can beat it.


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## Puro_Angler (Mar 23, 2006)

interesting...


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## Oldmso54 (Jul 31, 2010)

bpegler said:


> after some thought, this post won. A couple reasons:
> 
> Aaron had a specific, very solid stick to bring to the competition.
> 
> ...


excellent choice!!!!!


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## bpegler (Mar 30, 2006)

fuente~fuente said:


> Subscribed...
> 
> I'm in the boat that some people are just enamored & jaded by the whole forbidden fruit aspect of CC's. I believe it a taste preference... Anybody that tells you that CC's are better are giving you their opinion on their _taste_ preference. CC construction in a lot of cases to me, isn't as decent to a comparable NC, again, in my opinion.
> 
> I am a objective bi-partisan BTW


If you are correct, then this really ugly machine made cheapie will easily get blown out of the water.

I never quite understood the "forbidden fruit" argument. The most respected cigar expert I know is Ajay, and since he lives in London, Havanas are simply one of many cigar regions available to him.

The major advantage most high end NCs have are those very pretty wrappers. Keep in mind that there are experts in Asia who pay extra for Havanas with those green spots. Feel they age better.

Most of the super premium market is aged Havanas, cigars costing $100 and up per stick. Very little of that market is in the States.

A Dunhill Cabinetta that goes for $500 will get snatched up in a heartbeat.

And not because it's forbidden...

Anyway, this is always fun to discuss, and Aaron will get to make what should be a easy contest for the NC.


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## splattttttt (May 17, 2012)

mata777 said:


> Can't wait for the results. Thanks for putting this together.
> 
> My personal theory on habanos is that too many people smoke them before resting or aging them. The way I see it take the band off a 6 month rested hdm ep.2 and take the band off a similar sized nc robusto in the 8.00-10.00 range and offer them up to an experienced smoker to compare. I think you would be hard pressed to find an nc in the 8-10 dollar range that can beat it.


I'll take the stand along side you as well. Not having the pleasure of experiencing the minor selection that Cuba has to offer. But that ingredient they add to their habanos, is often considered by many as the ultimate in what many claim the one no one else can acquire. So yes... "Preference" is what it all boils down to.


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## bpegler (Mar 30, 2006)

splattttttt said:


> I'll take the stand along side you as well. Not having the pleasure of experiencing the minor selection that Cuba has to offer. But that ingredient they add to their habanos, is often considered by many as the ultimate in what many claim the one no one else can acquire. So yes... "Preference" is what it all boils down to.


I'm not sure I would describe the Havanas catalog as a "minor selection", not quite sure what that means. I believe that Cuba produces more cigars than anywhere else in the world. And all the most famous marques are Havanas. Cohiba, Montecristo, RyJ, H Upmann, Partagas, just to name a few.


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## mata777 (Jul 11, 2011)

bpegler said:


> I'm not sure I would describe the Havanas catalog as a "minor selection", not quite sure what that means. I believe that Cuba produces more cigars than anywhere else in the world. And all the most famous marques are Havanas. Cohiba, Montecristo, RyJ, H Upmann, Partagas, just to name a few.


Very true. Many, many marcas and vitolas. 
Also if I may add some info. No other ingredient is added to habanos other than tobacco grown on the actual island. This is what make the huge difference in taste IMHO. Stick around here splattttt, there are people on this forum who are much more knowable than me. Good luck!


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## avitti (Jun 4, 2011)

Minor selection -must mean the ratio of the 26 current marcas and all their vitolas- to the hundreds of brands and countless sizes of the cardboard and pepper sticks..sorry couldn't resist...delete if you wish


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## Guest (Sep 14, 2012)

bpegler said:


> *If* you are correct, then this really ugly machine made cheapie will easily get blown out of the water.


I promise that aside from going all out to do this contest justice, that I will be 100% objective, however my gut feeling is that this little cigar that Bob has tried so hard to make so unassuming is going to be more than a match for the Tatuaje

I think this is going to be like Rocky versus Apollo, everyone likes a contest with an under dog!


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## splattttttt (May 17, 2012)

mata777 said:


> Very true. Many, many marcas and vitolas.
> Also if I may add some info. No other ingredient is added to habanos other than tobacco grown on the actual island. This is what make the huge difference in taste IMHO. Stick around here splattttt, there are people on this forum who are much more knowable than me. Good luck!


I'm on a few other sites. This is the one I enjoy most. It's the earthyness ( ;


avitti said:


> Minor selection -must mean the ratio of the 26 current marcas and all their vitolas- to the hundreds of brands and countless sizes of the cardboard and pepper sticks..sorry couldn't resist...delete if you wish


lol, yeah. That's what I meant.


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## fuente~fuente (May 11, 2009)

bpegler said:


> If you are correct, then this really ugly machine made cheapie will easily get blown out of the water.
> 
> I never quite understood the "forbidden fruit" argument. The most respected cigar expert I know is Ajay, and since he lives in London, Havanas are simply one of many cigar regions available to him.
> 
> ...


Hey, don't get upset at me. Al asked for me to come in here. :lol:

I don't knock anyone for what they prefer... If it's one thing that I can say, It's that Habano's do have a distinct flavor profile. It's very pronounced due to all of them being puro's. So the saying "Nothing tastes like a Cuban." is very understandable to me. What irks me is saying the best cigars come from Cuba. That's up to the smoker & _his_ personal preference. If that's your thing, then hey, go for it! I just get irked when someone tries to place them a notch above anything else...

Hey, I enjoy a CC just as much as anyone else... I just had a Siglo IV the other day that was great! I have a small stash in my humi that I keep when I'm in the mood for that particular flavor, just like the Maduro's, just like the Connecticut's, just like the pepper bombs, etc... I'm bi-partisan!


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## splattttttt (May 17, 2012)

Let's not argue folks. Reason we're here is cause we love cigars. The choices are ours and only ours. Theirs are theirs. We can coexist harmoniously, as long as we're happy with our stick. Otherwise, all hell might break loose lol.
Carry on ( :


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## TonyBrooklyn (Jan 28, 2010)

I knew this thread would go south quickly!
Terms like forbidden fruit ISOM only serve to show.
How ignorant most of the world is when it comes to Havanas!
That being said it is not meant to offend just and observation.
With ignorance comes prejudice with prejudice comes dislike or hate.
That and the fact that many are really afraid to break the law getting stuck with fakes and justifiably so.
Also marketing has brainwashed consumers playing on their fear ignorance that non Cubans are the cats meow!
Nothing can be further from the truth.
Non Cuban cigars at best are an attempt to reinvent the wheel.
As has been said Cubans are that wheel
So please lets keep this thread on track!
And give Bob our gracious host the respect he deserves!
The thread is not about mine or your opinion but rather a challenge!
So either put up or shut up!
"Talk the talk and walk the walk"


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## Guest (Sep 14, 2012)

TonyBrooklyn said:


> I knew this thread would go south quickly!
> Terms like forbidden fruit ISOM only serve to show.
> How ignorant most of the world is when it comes to Havanas!
> That being said it is not meant to offend just and observation.
> ...


Couldn't agree more Tony!


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## splattttttt (May 17, 2012)

I don't want this thread closed.


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## Cigar Noob (May 22, 2011)

One contest I would like is for the CC only crowd to do a blind CC taste test. Take exactly the same vitola with a few different brands. Maybe don't even tell them what brands are involved. 

I do feel like Bob picked this stick out for a reason. Notice he didn't throw a Guantanamera out there.


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## fuente~fuente (May 11, 2009)

TonyBrooklyn said:


> I knew this thread would go south quickly!
> Terms like forbidden fruit ISOM only serve to show.
> How ignorant most of the world is when it comes to Havanas!
> That being said it is not meant to offend just and observation.
> ...


I don't see anything going south, & I don't see any arguing...

I definitely don't fall into the ignorant category, because I smoke both...

I don't hate them, because I smoke them...

Certainly no disrespect to the old masters who have given us this great hobby. Also I mean to disrespect to the gentleman who started this thread, who I hold in very high regard.

So that being said... Let the games begin!


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## splattttttt (May 17, 2012)

fuente~fuente said:


> Let the games begin!


I like this CC vs NC catagory a lot. I hope to see more of these. Maybe a series?


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## fuente~fuente (May 11, 2009)

splattttttt said:


> I like this CC vs NC catagory a lot. I hope to see more of these. Maybe a series?


This series won't end Jack. _Maybe_ it will after the embargo does, but people are still going to have subjectional palates!


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## splattttttt (May 17, 2012)

fuente~fuente said:


> This series won't end Jack. _Maybe_ it will after the embargo does, but people are still going to have subjectional palates!


Thank God, or it would be like sucking ash otherwise lol.


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## bpegler (Mar 30, 2006)

Everyone has been opinionated but polite, exactly what I would hope for in a hobby with such passions. Obviously I didn't pick a guant, those things are nasty. I'd rather smoke a short story than a guant.

And that's some heresy...

Just to be clear, this ugly Upmann might very well loose. It is one dimensional as hell.

But it will give a good account of itself I think. Not to be too rude, but nobody keeps old NC machine made Cigars to age, I don't think a Philly Blunt will taste like anything but crap in 20 years...


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## longburn (Mar 28, 2009)

And some folks hold fish eggs and snails up as gourmet food... 

The "twang" is the particular taste of a product grown in a particular region, it's the reason Vidalia onions are sweetest in only a certain section in Georgia, a special melon in Japan goes for $500 each but only when grown in a certain region and cognac can only be called cognac when made with grapes from a certain region in France. It isn't about "better" it's about taste. Just as taste is unique to the cigars from one region to another.


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## Mante (Dec 25, 2009)

longburn said:


> And some folks hold fish eggs and snails up as gourmet food...
> 
> The "twang" is the particular taste of a product grown in a particular region, it's the reason Vidalia onions are sweetest in only a certain section in Georgia, a special melon in Japan goes for $500 each but only when grown in a certain region and cognac can only be called cognac when made with grapes from a certain region in France. It isn't about "better" it's about taste. Just as taste is unique to the cigars from one region to another.


Nicely said Carl. :thumb:


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## bpegler (Mar 30, 2006)

The bird is in the air. Will take a while to land, since it has a long flight ahead.


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## Guest (Sep 15, 2012)

I could be here as early as next Sunday when we get out next mail plane. I'll keep you guys posted and do the reviews in a very timely manner 

Thanks Bob!


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## splattttttt (May 17, 2012)

Pale Horse said:


> I could be here as early as next Sunday when we get out next mail plane. I'll keep you guys posted and do the reviews in a very timely manner
> 
> Thanks Bob!


will the machine made Cuban Upmann require a rest after its journey?


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## bpegler (Mar 30, 2006)

splattttttt said:


> will the machine made Cuban Upmann require a rest after its journey?


It's been en cello for 18 years now, probably ready to go.


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## Wallbright (Jan 2, 2011)

First off, I can't wait to see how the reviewing goes and I think this is a great concept. You also could not have chosen a better contestant. 

Second, I'd like to just throw my opinion into the ring. The way I see it is that Cuba is one of the many regions that we get our precious cigars from. I treat them just as I would treat Nicaragua, Dominican Republic, etc. where each has good and bad cigars and bring different flavor profiles into the mix. So with this thinking in mind there are some CCs that are very good and some that are absolute crap just as the same can be said to cigars of other regions. I also try not to compare regions as that would be like comparing apples to oranges as each stands out amongst their region for a reason. So when people become CC or NC "snobs" I don't really get it as I believe that each region should be compared amongst themselves instead of cross-regionally as their flavors vary too much. Just how I see it though and I respect everyone's opinions, but that doesn't mean I have to always agree with them.


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## avitti (Jun 4, 2011)

Wallbright said:


> First off, I can't wait to see how the reviewing goes and I think this is a great concept. You also could not have chosen a better contestant.
> 
> Second, I'd like to just throw my opinion into the ring. The way I see it is that Cuba is one of the many regions that we get our precious cigars from. I treat them just as I would treat Nicaragua, Dominican Republic, etc. where each has good and bad cigars and bring different flavor profiles into the mix. So with this thinking in mind there are some CCs that are very good and some that are absolute crap just as the same can be said to cigars of other regions. I also try not to compare regions as that would be like comparing apples to oranges as each stands out amongst their region for a reason. So when people become CC or NC "snobs" I don't really get it as I believe that each region should be compared amongst themselves instead of cross-regionally as their flavors vary too much. Just how I see it though and I respect everyone's opinions, but that doesn't mean I have to always agree with them.


Just so i will know which ones to stay away from-if you don't mind-can you tell me which CC's are crap please.I wouldn't want to be throwing my hard earned money away.


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## Guest (Sep 15, 2012)

avitti said:


> Just so i will know which ones to stay away from-if you don't mind-can you tell me which CC's are crap please.I wouldn't want to be throwing my hard earned money away.


I think Tyler was trying to say that taste and preference is subjective, so one person might think that a certain cigar is absolutely horrible, while it's another's cup of tea. I've had some that I was really unimpressed with, others every draw was like an epiphany


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## fuente~fuente (May 11, 2009)

Pale Horse said:


> I think Tyler was trying to say that taste and preference is subjective, so one person might think that a certain cigar is absolutely horrible, while it's another's cup of tea. I've had some that I was really unimpressed with, others every draw was like an epiphany


That's exactly what he was trying to say.

I also think your a great brother to use for the "experiment" Aaron. :nod:


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## Guest (Sep 15, 2012)

fuente~fuente said:


> I also think your a great brother to use for the "experiment" Aaron. :nod:


Thank you very much! I'll do my best


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## splattttttt (May 17, 2012)

does machine made+ umpteen years of aging= FACKNO... even if grown in Haveana?


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## fuente~fuente (May 11, 2009)

I've had some Quintero's that were machine made that were pretty tasty. 18 years seems _really_ old, & my first impression would be that it's past it's prime, but obviously Bob seems to think otherwise, & he knows his stuff, so that's one part of this thread that intrigues me.


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## fuente~fuente (May 11, 2009)

bpegler said:


> Havanas with those green spots


I believe those are called "Angel Kisses" Bob. :lol:


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## avitti (Jun 4, 2011)

fuente~fuente said:


> That's exactly what he was trying to say.
> 
> I also think your a great brother to use for the "experiment" Aaron. :nod:





Pale Horse said:


> I think Tyler was trying to say that taste and preference is subjective, so one person might think that a certain cigar is absolutely horrible, while it's another's cup of tea. I've had some that I was really unimpressed with, others every draw was like an epiphany


Well guys i don't read it as such--he said some were really crap-that's a statement to be made if you smoked some cigars and that was your over all reaction or opinion to those cigars..so you gentlemen are assuming that's what he meant-and not what he wrote


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## splattttttt (May 17, 2012)

A fine cigar is like a fine woman. They come in all shapes and sizes. Treat them tenderly and lovingly. Caress their skin, admire their beauty, fondle them with reverence. Bring them slowly to your lips, enjoy their flavor, their aroma. Contemplate their essence, their dependability, and forgive them their weaknesses -- if there be any. Revel in the rituals, their simplicity and their enduring meanings. Do these things, my son, and the blessings of life shall always be upon you." -- From the writings of Prince Sined Yar Maharg.


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## fuente~fuente (May 11, 2009)

splattttttt said:


> A fine cigar is like a fine woman. They come in all shapes and sizes. Treat them tenderly and lovingly. Caress their skin, admire their beauty, fondle them with reverence. Bring them slowly to your lips, enjoy their flavor, their aroma. Contemplate their essence, their dependability, and forgive them their weaknesses -- if there be any. Revel in the rituals, their simplicity and their enduring meanings. Do these things, my son, and the blessings of life shall always be upon you." -- From the writings of Prince Sined Yar Maharg.


I think I just became aroused!


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## splattttttt (May 17, 2012)

:banana:


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## fuente~fuente (May 11, 2009)

avitti said:


> Well guys i don't read it as such--he said some were really crap-that's a statement to be made if you smoked some cigars and that was your over all reaction or opinion to those cigars..so you gentlemen are assuming that's what he meant-and not what he wrote


I read it as he treats all versions of tobacco evenly. I thought it was a fair & balanced opinion, much like mine is.


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## hardcz (Aug 1, 2007)

I'm a cc snob that smokes nc's on occasion. I know pretty much everything there is to know about cigars since I have a few books......



lol wut?


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## Wallbright (Jan 2, 2011)

Pale Horse said:


> I think Tyler was trying to say that taste and preference is subjective, so one person might think that a certain cigar is absolutely horrible, while it's another's cup of tea. I've had some that I was really unimpressed with, others every draw was like an epiphany





fuente~fuente said:


> That's exactly what he was trying to say.
> 
> I also think your a great brother to use for the "experiment" Aaron. :nod:


More or less that is what I was saying. But the part I tried to emphasize is that it is unfair, in my opinion, and only in my opinion, to compare different regions with each other (NC to CC, NC Domincan to NC Nicaraguan, etc.) as they each bring something to the table. It would be like comparing meat loaf to chocolate cake where they are both food but are in completely different categories even though some flavors may still be present in both (some amount of sweetness in the meat loaf, etc.). I know not all will agree though and I respect everyone else's opinion and I hope everyone will respect mine, as everyone has thus far.



avitti said:


> Just so i will know which ones to stay away from-if you don't mind-can you tell me which CC's are crap please.I wouldn't want to be throwing my hard earned money away.


For me I did not care for any of the Guantanamera's I have tried, especially the cristales. I can't really think of any more off the top of my head that I thought were absolute crap but I know some of the ones I have tried were not within my flavor preferences, such as the Bolivar Gold Medals and RyJ Regalias De Londres (from 2006 no less). But as the other guys have stated, taste is pretty subjective so what I dislike you may like and what I like you may dislike.


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## splattttttt (May 17, 2012)

Wallbright said:


> he part I tried to emphasize is that it is unfair, in my opinion, and only in my opinion, to compare different regions with each other (NC to CC, NC Domincan to NC Nicaraguan, etc.) as they each bring something to the table.


I'm sure most would agree with you on that. So let's not compare. 
Instead review the two individually, knowing that a non biased opinion Aaron is to be expected.


----------



## WyldKnyght (Apr 1, 2011)

I am one that agrees with Tyler, even if I am in the minority, I enjoy both NC and CC and try not to compare the two, as he said apples and oranges, there is a time and place for each.


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## Mante (Dec 25, 2009)

WyldKnyght said:


> I am one that agrees with Tyler, even if I am in the minority, I enjoy both NC and CC and try not to compare the two, as he said apples and oranges, there is a time and place for each.


You are not alone in your agreement with Tyler as I too think along the same lines. That said, I do not believe Bob is trying to do anything other than get a perspective from a seasoned NC smoker & I really wish people would not bring the "superiority" :BS into these threads.

I knew this may turn to crap, as usually it does in these situations but I know Aaron will give his honest thoughts. Some of the preceding posts are the reason I and others post rarely in the Habanos section & will continue to do so while members feel the need to ride around on a high cuban horse.

Nice challenge Bob, I commend you for offering up such an aged cigar.


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## Cigar Noob (May 22, 2011)

Very well said Warren.


----------



## avitti (Jun 4, 2011)

Tashaz said:


> You are not alone in your agreement with Tyler as I too think along the same lines. That said, I do not believe Bob is trying to do anything other than get a perspective from a seasoned NC smoker & I really wish people would not bring the "superiority" :BS into these threads.
> 
> I knew this may turn to crap, as usually it does in these situations but I know Aaron will give his honest thoughts. Some of the preceding posts are the reason I and others post rarely in the Habanos section & will continue to do so while members feel the need to ride around on a high cuban horse.
> 
> Nice challenge Bob, I commend you for offering up such an aged cigar.


Well i don't see any other post than mine lately that has question the like or dislike of CC cigars..So if you're calling something crap you should be able to say what it is,,Which the gentleman did in his retort ..btw my horse is only 16 hands high how high is your???


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## Mante (Dec 25, 2009)

avitti said:


> Well i don't see any other post than mine lately that has question the like or dislike of CC cigars..So if you're calling something crap you should be able to say what it is,,Which the gentleman did in his retort ..btw my horse is only 16 hands high how high is your???


My horse when I was a teen was 18 hands high, used to buck me off, then stand over me looking down and thinking at me "WTF you doing down there....again?". You yourself have called certain cubans crap so there is no need to go at perfectly valid members opinions.

Your's is not the only post that I referred to and you well know it Tony but as much as I enjoy jousting with you elsewhere, this is not how we act at Puff.com. Elsewhere I will entertain you and others but not here as it demeans what this forum stands for and if you wish to discuss my thoughts on this further please do so in PM.

Sorry Bob, carry on mate.


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## Cigar Noob (May 22, 2011)

I want in! My horse was like... well... I never had one. Mind if I cross streams?









Good thing he chose the guy that has an APO... gives us time to not say silly things.


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## avitti (Jun 4, 2011)

Tashaz said:


> My horse when I was a teen was 18 hands high, used to buck me off, then stand over me looking down and thinking at me "WTF you doing down there....again?". You yourself have called certain cubans crap so there is no need to go at perfectly valid members opinions.
> 
> Your's is not the only post that I referred to and you well know it Tony but as much as I enjoy jousting with you elsewhere, this is not how we act at Puff.com. Elsewhere I will entertain you and others but not here as it demeans what this forum stands for and if you wish to discuss my thoughts on this further please do so in PM.
> 
> Sorry Bob, carry on mate.


You've made your point now i'll make mine-and i'll go to pm but if you think you can cut to the quick and then say this forum is above a reply because you don't like a post -well then ...i didn't know it was you who decided what demeans a forum


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## bpegler (Mar 30, 2006)

I know it's difficult at times, but I really believe that having opinions, even strongly held ones, is beneficial to this community. It's fine to think that one cigar is better than another, and to make a case for your belief. If we all weren't snobs to one degree or another, then we would just smoke Swisher Sweets and save a bucket of money.

Let's just keep the debate polite, and about cigars rather than our personalities.

Also, while everyone has an opinion, the purpose of a cigar board is to develop an informed opinion. If you want to influence others opinions, provide data to support yours.

For instance, that little MM I just sent out is a data point. I hope it will get us talking about tobacco qualities in a poorly presented format. We all know that the quality of MM sticks is pretty low, thus the premium we all pay for hand rolled cigars. The only thing this cigar has in it's favor is the tobacco, and even that is all chopped up and thus won't have great burn characteristics.

So I've tried to provide a cigar, that if it competes, must have been made with superior tobacco.

That seems fun to me, and interesting...


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## sean373 (Sep 21, 2007)

Not quite how I was expecting this thread to go...


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## splattttttt (May 17, 2012)

though I'm non other than a nueb here...


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## Damselnotindistress (Aug 7, 2011)

*Boy, am I glad I went to the initial post of this topic! With the number of responses I thought this was a "from years back" topic and had just resumed! 

A-hem! In all fairness to the up and coming NC's, with 60+ years of the famed tobacconists
having cultivated soils in regions throughout the world, some NC's I think we can safely say are on par with some of our prestigious Cubans. It would be very hard for me to see not having a conflict over choosing a Padron 45th Family Anniversary or a Cuban (authentic) Cohiba! But this topic was about would the cheapest, mealiest Cuban be preferable over a well made NC? As has been observed by other B/SOTL, the various cigar tobaccos everywhere are DIFFERENT in flavor, maybe not so much better. I love the flavor combinations of Brazilian, Cameroon, and when you can find it, Jamaican tobacco. I think if I could find a well made NC with that flavor profile or some portion of it I MAY choose it over a dinky Havana...or not. I'm "Tony the Twang Lover the 2nd" - I L-O-O-O-V-E the flavor of Cuban tobacco!!! Like a thirsty man dying in the desert of dehydration - I LOOOOVE Cuban tobacco! Gee - did I just 'dis everything I previously said??? :hmm:


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## Jordan23 (May 25, 2012)

Tashaz said:


> You are not alone in your agreement with Tyler as I too think along the same lines. That said, I do not believe Bob is trying to do anything other than get a perspective from a seasoned NC smoker & I really wish people would not bring the "superiority" :BS into these threads.
> 
> I knew this may turn to crap, as usually it does in these situations but I know Aaron will give his honest thoughts. Some of the preceding posts are the reason I and others post rarely in the Habanos section & will continue to do so while members feel the need to ride around on a high cuban horse.
> 
> Nice challenge Bob, I commend you for offering up such an aged cigar.


Very very well said Warren. My take is that of course preference of any sort is just that -subjective preference. We can prove the temp that water boils, not what is the greatest movie of all time. The answer to the latter depends on who you ask. Same thing applies to cigars. The best or crap depends on who you ask.


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## Guest (Sep 16, 2012)

Damselnotindistress said:


> A-hem! In all fairness to the up and coming NC's, with 60+ years of the famed tobacconists having cultivated soils in regions throughout the world, some NC's I think we can safely say are on par with some of our prestigious Cubans. It would be very hard for me to see not having a conflict over choosing a Padron 45th Family Anniversary or a Cuban (authentic) Cohiba! But this topic was about would the cheapest, mealiest Cuban be preferable over a well made NC?


RG bump


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## Cigar Noob (May 22, 2011)

bpegler said:


> that if it competes, must have been made with superior tobacco.


Seems like a giant reach. The competition is of what flavor profile the reviewer prefers. Does he prefer an apple or an orange? Can you say that this apple was bad so this orange was superior? I don't think so.

My prediction is that he will pick the CC because that is what he is supposed to pick.


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## Guest (Sep 16, 2012)

Cigar Noob said:


> My prediction is that he will pick the CC because that is what he is supposed to pick.


That is an incorrect assumption, and I don't believe that this contest was designed with a winner in mind. Whatever I end up choosing I will choose only based on an objective review of both specimens, any opinions and biases from any other person have absolutely zero weight, and I am certain that that is the way Bob wanted it. I do believe that this little Habano is going to be quite a match for the Tat, but *I will not* compromise my integrity and choose a winner for brownie points or respect from NC or CC snobs.

I take offense to your implication.


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## longburn (Mar 28, 2009)

Great insight Warren, I ring gauge bump to you brother for seeing through the fog and haze and leading the correct way. I agree 100%, it's not about better, it's about different flavor profiles from different places.:thumb:


Tashaz said:


> You are not alone in your agreement with Tyler as I too think along the same lines. That said, I do not believe Bob is trying to do anything other than get a perspective from a seasoned NC smoker & I really wish people would not bring the "superiority" :BS into these threads.
> 
> I knew this may turn to crap, as usually it does in these situations but I know Aaron will give his honest thoughts. Some of the preceding posts are the reason I and others post rarely in the Habanos section & will continue to do so while members feel the need to ride around on a high cuban horse.
> 
> Nice challenge Bob, I commend you for offering up such an aged cigar.


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## longburn (Mar 28, 2009)

RG Bump for you Aaron, from what i've seen you have taken your role in this very seriously from the beginning. You know how passionate some people here are so you know how important this is to some of those people which is why I believe you will go to whatever length nessasary to provide a totally unbiased opinion in as much as that is humanly possible when you already know which cigar is which. And even with that I feel confident you will not sucumb to such preconcieved thoughts because you will recognize them for what they are and over look them. I don't think Aaron read your promise to commitment earlier or he would have seen how sincere you were.



Pale Horse said:


> That is an incorrect assumption, and I don't believe that this contest was designed with a winner in mind. Whatever I end up choosing I will choose only based on an objective review of both specimens, any opinions and biases from any other person have absolutely zero weight, and I am certain that that is the way Bob wanted it. I do believe that this little Habano is going to be quite a match for the Tat, but *I will not* compromise my integrity and choose a winner for brownie points or respect from NC or CC snobs.
> 
> I take offense to your implication.


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## splattttttt (May 17, 2012)

Sir Aaron. We await your virdict.
:drum:


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## ten08 (Sep 8, 2011)

Interesting challenge, Bob. I have no doubt Aaron will give an honest comparison. opcorn:


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## Habano (Jul 5, 2010)

Really look forward to the outcome of the challenge. These are always interesting and fun to watch.

Big props to Bob for putting this together and supplying the cigars.


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## Oldmso54 (Jul 31, 2010)

Starbuck said:


> Really look forward to the outcome of the challenge. These are always interesting and fun to watch.
> 
> Big props to Bob for putting this together and supplying the cigars.


Wow! Look who the cat dragged in? J/K = good to see you David!:hug:


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## TonyBrooklyn (Jan 28, 2010)

Argue all you like while i sit here enjoying my Cuban Rum and Cuban cigar!
ROTFLMFAO!


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## splattttttt (May 17, 2012)

Like rum? Gotta try Plantation Nicaragua 1998 Rum


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## Vicini (Oct 10, 2010)

Interested to see the results from this


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## Deadhead Dave (Jun 10, 2012)

Has someone here done blind taste tests between NC and CC of comparable value? I am sure Aaron will give this an honest review, but the only way to REALLY know is to do a blind taste test.


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## JGD (Mar 2, 2009)

A few of us have.

http://www.cigarforums.net/forums/v...699-blind-taste-test-thread-reviews-only.html


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## Cigar Noob (May 22, 2011)

Deadhead Dave said:


> Has someone here done blind taste tests between NC and CC of comparable value? I am sure Aaron will give this an honest review, but the only way to REALLY know is to do a blind taste test.


I'm a big believer in blind taste test too but I think doing an apples to apples would probably be a better comparison. I think that would be real tough especially if the cigars in question were never mentioned.


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## Deadhead Dave (Jun 10, 2012)

I would actually be more interested in the reviewers thoughts on the quality and taste of said cigars, rather than if people know they are cuban or not. Maybe even some blind tasting by folks who are not familiar with Habanos, for an un-skewed assessment of which cigar they thought was better.


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## asmartbull (Aug 16, 2009)

Deadhead Dave said:


> I would actually be more interested in the reviewers thoughts on the quality and taste of said cigars, rather than if people know they are cuban or not. Maybe even some blind tasting by folks who are not familiar with Habanos, for an un-skewed assessment of which cigar they thought was better.


Here some good reading for you...
http://www.cigarforums.net/forums/vb/habanos-discussion/276129-search-twang.html


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## Mante (Dec 25, 2009)

Deadhead Dave said:


> I would actually be more interested in the reviewers thoughts on the quality and taste of said cigars, rather than if people know they are cuban or not.


I may have this wrong but I see that as exactly what Bob is offering up here. Ok the cigars are known quantities but Bob has asked for no more that what you suggest.


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## bpegler (Mar 30, 2006)

This is not a double blind experiment done by researchers in white jackets. I have no idea how one could really eliminate all the variables, especially the "equal value" question.

Instead this is just for fun! Really, there shouldn't be much contest given the huge quality gap between these sticks, but we shall see...

BTW, any of the "experiments" you read about here or elsewhere are so flawed and filled with bias that they should be taken as fun versus science.

That's why this is a hobby, not a discipline.


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## Mante (Dec 25, 2009)

bpegler said:


> BTW, any of the "experiments" you read about here or elsewhere are so flawed and filled with bias that they should be taken as fun versus science.
> 
> That's why this is a hobby, not a discipline.


Oh nicely said Bob! :biggrin:


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## Arnie (Jan 5, 2009)

opcorn:


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## android (Feb 27, 2012)

splattttttt said:


> Like rum? Gotta try Plantation Nicaragua 1998 Rum


NC Rum? pfft, no thank you...


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## splattttttt (May 17, 2012)

bpegler said:


> This is not a double blind experiment done by researchers in white jackets. I have no idea how one could really eliminate all the variables, especially the "equal value" question.
> 
> Instead this is just for fun! Really, there shouldn't be much contest given the huge quality gap between these sticks, but we shall see...
> 
> ...


agreed! And the sooner Aaron get's down to business, the sooner the arguments will end.
Sorry Aaron. Had to be said. You take your time though lol, I just needed to fart out my mouth.


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## Guest (Sep 19, 2012)

splattttttt said:


> agreed! And the sooner Aaron get's down to business, the sooner the arguments will end.
> Sorry Aaron. Had to be said. You take your time though lol, I just needed to fart out my mouth.


I expect it to arrive on our weekly mail plane this Sunday, if so I'll smoke one Monday, the next on Tuesday and get it posted up for you guys


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## TonyBrooklyn (Jan 28, 2010)

JGD said:


> A few of us have.
> 
> http://www.cigarforums.net/forums/v...699-blind-taste-test-thread-reviews-only.html


That's right James we have and can say we did!


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## TonyBrooklyn (Jan 28, 2010)

Cigar Noob said:


> I'm a big believer in blind taste test too but I think doing an apples to apples would probably be a better comparison. I think that would be real tough especially if the cigars in question were never mentioned.





Deadhead Dave said:


> I would actually be more interested in the reviewers thoughts on the quality and taste of said cigars, rather than if people know they are cuban or not. Maybe even some blind tasting by folks who are not familiar with Habanos, for an un-skewed assessment of which cigar they thought was better.


Once Again the link that James was so kind to provide!
Totally blind taste test review likes and dislikes of cigars!
"No Brag just Fact"-Will Sonnet

http://www.cigarforums.net/forums/v...699-blind-taste-test-thread-reviews-only.html


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## splattttttt (May 17, 2012)

Pale Horse said:


> I expect it to arrive on our weekly mail plane this Sunday, if so I'll smoke one Monday, the next on Tuesday and get it posted up for you guys


I often wondered if a side by side, both at the same time might work? Your opinion?


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## Deadhead Dave (Jun 10, 2012)

bpegler said:


> This is not a double blind experiment done by researchers in white jackets. I have no idea how one could really eliminate all the variables, especially the "equal value" question.
> 
> Instead this is just for fun! Really, there shouldn't be much contest given the huge quality gap between these sticks, but we shall see...
> 
> ...


 This is definitely first and foremost a hobby. I was mostly just curious as to what kind of taste testing people had done around here. Happy smoking!


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## StogieNinja (Jul 29, 2009)

splattttttt said:


> I often wondered if a side by side, both at the same time might work? Your opinion?


The problem with that is that Tats are often much more full-bodied and would overpower the CC, so that you might not taste the subtleties of the flavor. The nuances might get lost, and its the subtleties and nuances that often make people chose CCs over NCs.


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## Guest (Sep 20, 2012)

Aninjaforallseasons said:


> The problem with that is that Tats are often much more full-bodied and would overpower the CC, so that you might not taste the subtleties of the flavor. The nuances might get lost, and its the subtleties and nuances that often make people chose CCs over NCs.


Yeah, that's why I'm doing them on two separate days. Plus, the Tat is much bigger than I usually smoke so I honestly wouldn't be able to smoke both in one afternoon lol. I'll let you guys know Sunday if I get them, I'm fairly sure that I will, and get this done for you


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## Habano (Jul 5, 2010)

TonyBrooklyn said:


> Once Again the link that James was so kind to provide!
> Totally blind taste test review likes and dislikes of cigars!
> "No Brag just Fact"-Will Sonnet
> 
> http://www.cigarforums.net/forums/v...699-blind-taste-test-thread-reviews-only.html


That was a lot of fun and you guys did very well.

Perhaps another one in the near future.


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## piperdown (Jul 19, 2009)

Starbuck said:


> That was a lot of fun and you guys did very well.
> 
> Perhaps another one in the near future.


I believe Al said something about hosting another one late fall or winter.


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## TonyBrooklyn (Jan 28, 2010)

Starbuck said:


> That was a lot of fun and you guys did very well.
> 
> Perhaps another one in the near future.


Would be my pleasure!
Best taste test i ever was a part off!
Like you David first class all the way!


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## Jordan23 (May 25, 2012)

I love threads like this, as they always seem to spawn interesting discussions. 8 pages and Aaron hasn't even reviewed the sticks yet. I think it goes to show people find nc vs cc debates interesting and fun.

Again, great idea Bob.


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## sdlaird (Mar 15, 2011)

Read through the whole thread finally.

Bob, good work setting this up. 

You sent in the scrawny kid with nothing going for him but raw talent up against a disciplined experienced veteran. 

Interesting contrast and very thoughtful. Subscribed. This is something I need to do at some point. Barely had time to smoke cigars lately, no less write a review, ugh!


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## Guest (Sep 23, 2012)

I got Bob's package today! He generously included some traveling companions as well!

Duuuuuude!

From left to right:
Carlos Fernandez Custom Behike 2012
H. Upmann Monarch 2007
RyJ Escudos E.L. 2004
Cohiba Lancero 2005
H. Upmann Regalia (The contest cigar) 1994

When my wife gets home I'm going to get her to photograph the Regalia And Tatuaje in a more artsy and detailed fashion, then I'm going to smoke the Tat. I will smoke the Regalia tomorrow and have the complete write up with pictures posted up by tomorrow evening


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## bpegler (Mar 30, 2006)

Umm, my mistake. That's a RyJ Hermosos #2 not an Escudos. Changed my mind and didn't change my note to you.

Enjoy!


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## Jordan23 (May 25, 2012)

Pale Horse said:


> I got Bob's package today! He generously included some traveling companions as well!
> 
> Duuuuuude!
> 
> ...


Mortal Kombat voice: It has beguuuuuuuun!!!!!!!!

Bob is a very nice guy, enjoy the sticks and looking forward to the reviews.


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## splattttttt (May 17, 2012)

op2::cheer2::whip::bump2::hug:


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## longburn (Mar 28, 2009)

Looking good! You sir are in for a treat....ENJOY! Good job Bob! Kudos to you for starting such an interesting contest and being so generous...RG bump for ya bro. And i'm looking forward to the outcomes. In fact, would love to see a review when you smoke each of those.


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## Swany (Aug 20, 2010)

Excellent, cant wait for the reviews


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## Arnie (Jan 5, 2009)

Bob doesn't &#*# around when he blows up someone's mail box. Nice work, Bob.


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## TonyBrooklyn (Jan 28, 2010)

Pale Horse said:


> I got Bob's package today! He generously included some traveling companions as well!
> 
> Duuuuuude!
> 
> ...


No Surprise to me that Bob is a class act!
Carry on young man can't wait to read your thoughts!


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## Guest (Sep 24, 2012)

Alrighty folks, here are the contestants, Tatuaje La Seleccion de Cazador Unico and the 1994 H. Upmann Regalia. This is going to be an interesting matchup because honestly this Regalia isn't nearly as ugly as Bob made it out to be! Despite cosmetic flaws, the only really construction issue would be medium sized veins but I don't think that they will affect the burn.

I am going to try to have the write ups complete with pictures finished by tomorrow evening 

So here are the contestants:


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## splattttttt (May 17, 2012)

if those had been gifted to me w/out bands, I'd probably pic the tall dark and hot looking torpedo


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## sdlaird (Mar 15, 2011)

That little feller is Fugly!!!


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## CeeGar (Feb 19, 2007)

sdlaird said:


> That little feller is Fugly!!!


I think it's beautiful...


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## Guest (Sep 24, 2012)

I just finished up the Tat, here are some sneak peeks:




"Oh heeeeyyyyy, what's that?! Smells great, can I have a puff?"

"Hmm, ok just one, but don't tell mom!"


Honestly, this is going to a very tough comparison. These two cigars are apples and oranges, but that was one damned fine apple!


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## Jordan23 (May 25, 2012)

CeeGar said:


> I think it's beautiful...


It's probably incredible-but it is-IMO of course-ugly. Now ask me if I'd rather have a great ugly stick or an OK beautiful stick.

Aaron, I dont know whats cooler: that ashtray or a dude with a stogie and a cat on his lap!


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## splattttttt (May 17, 2012)

You can do it Aaron. Don't let that ugly stick scare you lol


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## bpegler (Mar 30, 2006)

That Tat is a gteat looking stick, and it looks like it smoked beautifully. Should be a cake walk victory versus a cheap, veiny, machine made cigar. Honestly, the cap on the Upmann is even wrong.

No contest...


But, what the heck, it will be interesting to hear your thoughts on these Aaron.


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## Jordan23 (May 25, 2012)

bpegler said:


> Should be a cake walk victory versus a cheap, veiny, machine made cigar. Honestly, the cap on the Upmann is even wrong.
> 
> No contest...


...aaaahhh, come on Bob :wink: This reminds me of what Mike Tyson's people were telling Kelton Brown's people in 1982, "Mike is just an okay fighter, with decent power." Boxing fans know how that ended.

While I think Bob is just having fun here (which I like because though this is a passionate hobby, it _is_ a hobby), I suspect both will be incredible. I've found every Tat I've had so far to be REALLY good, and judging by sticks Bob has gifted to others, he doesn't dole out sub par stuff. So the latter bodes well for the Cuban in question.


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## Guest (Sep 24, 2012)

Jordan23 said:


> Aaron, I dont know whats cooler: that ashtray or a dude with a stogie and a cat on his lap!


Why thank you! That ashtray belonged my my late uncle, he was my favorite. He smoked cigarettes all his life and I believe that a friend made that for him. That's a real Mack truck hood ornament!

It's fun smoking with Bojon, plus he is more eloquent than I so he was helping me with the wording in my notes 



bpegler said:


> That Tat is a gteat looking stick, and it looks like it smoked beautifully. Should be a cake walk victory versus a cheap, veiny, machine made cigar. Honestly, the cap on the Upmann is even wrong.
> 
> No contest...
> 
> But, what the heck, it will be interesting to hear your thoughts on these Aaron.


lol Bob, you kill me. I have no doubt that this little cigar that you keep talking down is going to bring some serious contention into this comparison! Honestly the entire time I was smoking the Tat I was thinking that as good as it was, the little Habano was going to give it a run for it's money! No contest? Pssssh, we'll see about that tomorrow


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## bpegler (Mar 30, 2006)

Seriously, if you wanted a fairer contest, that H Upmann Monarch en tubo would easily destroy the Tat, I believe.

But this contest was all about tiny little chopped up short filler going up against a NC with better construction and beautiful long filler. Remember, that filler was inadequate to put in a premium Havana.

It's so David versus Goliath...


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## V-ret (Jun 25, 2012)

As I'm watching American Pickers right now, I can see how the "ugly" stick is sexy in an aged historical type of way.


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## Guest (Sep 25, 2012)

I had an unexpected commander's call today so I didn't get to the Regalia as early as I wanted, but I just got finished smoking it and I'll get the full write ups finished tomorrow. I apologize for the delay!

Here is a teaser picture 



I will go ahead and say that I was correct in being suspicious of how Bob was doing his best to talk this little guy down. This is no easy contest, I hope you guys are satisfied with my full report tomorrow!


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## bpegler (Mar 30, 2006)

Aaron, my friend. How I underestimated you. I thought I had created some suspense, but this is a fantastic cliff hanger!

Just that pretty picture of a sad little cigar, waiting on fate.

Tune in tomorrow, Gentlemen.


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## Guest (Sep 25, 2012)

lol, I'm really not trying to drag this out tooooo much, I just don't want to rush through this because it's already 2224 here and I want to be sure that this is done to my absolute best ability. I suppose a little more time to mull over the contenders can't hurt either


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## Arnie (Jan 5, 2009)

That little Upmann reminds me of a woman I worked with years ago. She was kinda homely. After about a week I realized I could not keep my eyes off her and I found myself engaging her in conversation every chance I got. After about a month I reassessed her face and found that she was actually a hottie; it just was a subtle beauty that took a while to appreciate. I dated her for some time and I often think of her when I am reminiscing about my misbegotten youth. That girl had many charms.

That small cigar has the look of a dud. Veins, spots, lumps. But the allure of that aged tobacco and her island heritage, and the Upmann name, all turn her into a prize. 
I suspect this homely little cigar had many charms also. Can't wait for Aaron's report.


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## splattttttt (May 17, 2012)

worse comes to worst, there's always the proverbial "bag over the head" trick?


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## Arnie (Jan 5, 2009)

splattttttt said:


> worse comes to worst, there's always the proverbial "bag over the head" trick?


The old wrap her up in ZigZag papers so my friends won't notice routine, eh?


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## splattttttt (May 17, 2012)

Arnie said:


> The old wrap her up in ZigZag papers so my friends won't notice routine, eh?


obviously, you've lived a much fuller and interesting life than I. :nod:


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## Guest (Sep 26, 2012)

This contest has actually been rather difficult, weighing two cigars against one another that couldn't be more different and judging them against one another. How is one to judge an apple compared to an orange? This would certainly vary between any two individuals, however what seems to be the most logical is to judge each for exactly what they are and then compare from there.
As Albert Einstein said, "Everyone is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid." So that being said, I did not judge these two completely different cigars, an apple and an orange, based on the apple's ability to be an orange, and vice versa. They were judged for what they were, and then compared.

*Tatuaje Seleccion de Cazador Unico - 6 1/8 x 52*
First third: Smooth leather and earth so creamy it can be chewed, subtle sweetness like liqueur and very gentle pepper through the nose, can easily retrohale the entire smoke. The burn is darned near razor sharp.
Second third: Leather begins to recede and earth takes center stage in flavor with the flavor of Kahlua becoming more pronounced through every retrohale, the pepper has all but vanished at this point. 
Final third: The strength of the cigar shifts solidly to full bodied and earth remains the prominent flavor with leather on the flanks. The sweet Kahlua recedes a bit and the pepper reemerges triumphantly but not overpowering. The smoke remains smooth and chewy, still very gentle on the retrohale.

Overall: I am honestly glad I chose this cigar as the representative of the NC side to go up against the 1994 CC. Uppmann Regalia. This specimen has masterfully made its case as to why NCs should not be written off, even by the staunchest CC aficionado. Its strength was tempered with creamy and complexity and produced dynamic transitions that keep the smoker's attention rapt and unwilling to shift attention away from it. The absolutely perfect construction did not disappoint, the burn stayed just shy of razor sharp for the duration of the smoke and cool throughout. This cigar could honestly stand toe-to-toe with almost any CC brought to the competition, and I would insist that everyone try one who doesn't believe that a NC can hold a candle to CCs.

*H. Uppmann Regalia, 1994, 5 1/8 x 42*
First third: Mild to medium bodied, cedar dominates the flavor profile with a long finish of earth and hay, loaded with twang.
Second third: Solidly medium bodied now, the earth and hay pick up while the cedar drops back a bit. The spice in the retrohale picks up slightly but is still very gentle on the nose. Twang like crazy! There are random shifts between mild-medium to solidly medium and back as well as the intensity of the spice.
Final third: No definitive flavor transitions, while the body and spice continue to fluctuate a little, they are definitely settling down from the second third though.

Overall: This cigar remained rather constant in its flavor with only very minor changes, that being said, it was by no means a boring smoke. While not dynamic in its transitions it maintained a sublime aged Habano flavor throughout and burned remarkably well, especially considering the construction with short filler. The cigar was noticeably springy and had some spots that were much firmer than others, which I attribute to the fluctuations in body and spice. While it was made from table scraps, it is still well aged Habano and certainly had the flavor to match. For all of the talk about it being so ugly, I very seriously doubt that even the most distinguished palate smoking it blindfolded would have any cause to complain about this "David" of a cigar.

*
The Comparison:*
I want to say first off that both were world-class smokes, and I feel honored and privileged to have smoke them. The Tatuaje is about an $11 smoke, and it truthfully lived up to every penny of that! The construction was absolutely perfect, the smoke was dynamic and had delightful transitions. The Regalia was a much, much cheaper cigar, made from the table scraps at the H. Uppmann factory and had significant obstacles to overcome. The construction was fair at best, the wrapper was very blemished and had some medium sized veins and had hard and soft spots (I believe because of the short filled). That aside though, the Regalia smoked absolutely beautifully! It was not a complex smoke, but the flavor of 18 year aged Habano is undeniably hard to beat. This ugly little cigar, as Bob has repeatedly called it, smoked better than many cigars that cost many times over what it did.

That being said, which was better? That's not exactly a fair question, because truthfully, it depends on how you look at it. Remember, we're comparing apples and oranges here. The Tatuaje was a better smoke, not by a landslide, but it was just better. But remember, we aren't comparing apples to oranges based on their ability to be oranges and apples. While the Tatuaje was a better smoke, the Regalia was a better performer. It honestly was not beaten by much by the Tatuaje as far as how it smoked, but it's also nowhere near an $11 cigar! It overcame significant construction and material shortcomings, and for what it was (an orange) it performed far beyond what it was ever meant to. That is extremely impressive when you consider that a cheap little cigar stood toe to toe with an $11 cigar and was only _narrowly_ bested in how it smoked.

So in conclusion, the winner is really how you look at it. The Tatuaje was undeniably the better smoke, but I will also have to credit the 1994 H. Uppmann Regalia with being the better cigar _because based on what it is, it simply performed better._ It's all in how you look at it.

Thank you very much Bob for setting this contest up and for choosing me to judge, I hope I did it justice! I also want to thank Tyler (Wallbright) for gifting me the Tatuaje


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## Jordan23 (May 25, 2012)

Very well done, Aaron. Bob, based on his write up, you couldnt have picked a better person. His post was honest, detailed, vivid, and entertaing (great Albert quote BTW). It's a tought task to write up this sort of comparision and do it justice, and he did.

What I liked about it was you mentioned we have to judge things based on what they are trying to be and then determine how well they did that. That was my main takeaway from the post. Is a more powerful spicy "in your face" cigar great? If that was it goal, and it met it, and you like it? Then yes. Is a more nuanced, complex, mild, smoke great? Same criteria and answers apply in my honest opinion. That's why I'm in the camp of write off one side, if you only like one side. But dont write off one side because it's "an incredible orange that cant ever be an average apple" and you prefer apples.

For me, I like apples and oranges

Interested to see what others think...


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## splattttttt (May 17, 2012)

Aaron, ever consider running for a top political spot? J/K bro. You're a cigar lover. I bet you'd even find a way to give credit to a dog rocket if you had to.
Great review none the less. Thank you.
So now, is it safe to consider that twang is similar to what how one might describe orange taste? :drum:


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## bpegler (Mar 30, 2006)

Aaron,

First let me thank you for doing such an excellent and honest review. You put both time and thought into it. I really appreciate it.

As for the cigars themselves, I hope you got a sense of the quality of pre 95 criollo, even without a great corojo binder and wrapper. That was the worst example of what, in my never to be humble opinion, was the greatest tobacco ever. I think the fact that it was even in this contest at all speaks volumes about the raw materials.

That Tat sounds like a great cigar, and a good example of how much NCs have improved over the years.

Thanks again,

Bob


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## Oldmso54 (Jul 31, 2010)

Awesomely done Aaron!! We all know you are a true gentleman and you're showing us that you are a true scholar as well. I thogoughly enjoyed your impressions and explanations. Excellent!!!!


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## Cigar Noob (May 22, 2011)

really riding the fence giving both a 1st place ribbon. The way I look at it, if someone handed you one of each and said 'pick one', what would you pick? Judging by the review it seems that you would grab the Tatuaje. Seems to be a clear winner. Good job.


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## Guest (Sep 26, 2012)

Cigar Noob said:


> really riding the fence giving both a 1st place ribbon. The way I look at it, if someone handed you one of each and said 'pick one', what would you pick? Judging by the review it seems that you would grab the Tatuaje. Seems to be a clear winner. Good job.


If someone had a Tat brown unico and a 1994 Uppmann Regalia, I would choose the '94 Regalia because I can get a Tat any time!

I did say that the Tatuaje was the better smoke, it was undeniable. Apples to oranges though, I felt the Regalia performed so far above it's class that it was the winner. Like I said multiple times in the post, I was judging them based on what they are and then comparing. Picture aging a Phillies Blunt for 18 years and then comparing it to a Liga Privada #9, if the blunt turned out to be a fantastic smoke to the point where it gave the LP9 some serious competition, wouldn't that wow the heck out of you?


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## splattttttt (May 17, 2012)

Pale Horse said:


> If someone had a Tat brown unico and a 1994 Uppmann Regalia, I would choose the '94 Regalia because I can get a Tat any time!
> 
> I did say that the Tatuaje was the better smoke, it was undeniable. Apples to oranges though, I felt the Regalia performed so far above it's class that it was the winner. Like I said multiple times in the post, I was judging them based on what they are and then comparing. Picture aging a Phillies Blunt for 18 years and then comparing it to a Liga Privada #9, if the blunt turned out to be a fantastic smoke to the point where it gave the LP9 some serious competition, wouldn't that wow the heck out of you?


Eighteen years from now, I will be looking for an ugly duckling at the bottom of my humi


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## asmartbull (Aug 16, 2009)

I really enjoy reading threads like this.
Aaron, thanks for taking the time and Bob for being
so generous....


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## CeeGar (Feb 19, 2007)

Very nice read. Thanks to both of you gentlemen for the time and effort. I believe Aaron approached the scenario with the proper perspective. The little, cheap, homely CC vs. the big, beautiful, pricey NC....how does one compare? I don't believe anyone here could have done better.


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## Guest (Sep 27, 2012)

I'm really glad that everyone so far seems to accept the way that the two cigars were compared, I was halfway expecting it to cause controversy. This contest was a lot of fun and I am very honored to have been chosen as the judge


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## splattttttt (May 17, 2012)

This review made me think as to whether there's been a comparison of *two equally aged* top shelf vitola from both Cuba and a NC yet?
This would be a fine example as to how long term aging effects tobacco grown in different regions.
I found this article, in which it states... "Dealers say that there is no market for aged non-Cubans. Some have gone as far as to say that Dominican, Nicaraguan, Honduran, etc. cigars do not develop the complexity that Cubans do over time. "


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## Guest (Sep 27, 2012)

That's a great idea for another contest! I would very much like to see a comparison between equally aged top shelf NCs and CCs


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## splattttttt (May 17, 2012)

Pale Horse said:


> That's a great idea for another contest! I would very much like to see a comparison between equally aged top shelf NCs and CCs


maybe use a format ranging from one year olds, to ten for starters. Way to check how the aging process ultimately enhanced their character.


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## fuente~fuente (May 11, 2009)

Aaron, thanks for such a honest perspective thoughout this... Your lack of bias & "homerism" to either is quite refreshing. If it was up to me, I too would take the Upmann, due to it's rarer nature & age.

I love both apples & oranges too! :nod:


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## Stinkdyr (Jun 19, 2009)

Is a good bottle of Sancerre better than a good Sauvignon Blanc from NZ?
Not to me. 
To me, they are both good and I am grateful to have the variety of wines to choose from when I reach into my wine cellar.
How boring it would be to convince myself that only one brand or terroir of ANYTHING was the best and only one worth consuming.


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## splattttttt (May 17, 2012)

variety is the spice we love... among other things.


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