# Diagnosing TAD



## freestoke (Feb 13, 2011)

While Tobacco Acquisition Disorder and its more serious manifestation, Tobacco Acquisition Disease, describe the characteristics of the malady, symptom severity can differ from individual to individual as the disease progresses. It would be in the interest of the pipe smoking community to more fully recognize and classify these variations to help pipers analyze their specific health issues. We can improve only if we first admit we have a problem, or so they say. 

Level 1: A handful of blends has worn thin. An online sampler pack to try some different tobaccos contains a few winners. You reorder too much of those tobaccos along with more samples. You have opted for a Puff newbie sampler pack.

Level 2: You have too much of some tobaccos that you once liked and not enough of some you have found that you now prefer. Your EPS sampler contains a large assortment of excellent tobaccos, some you feel you have to have more of. You order extra quantities of these new tobaccos and a few other tins recommended on the forums, to get free shipping.

Level 3: The penny falls that entirely too much tobacco is in inadequate packaging; your smoking area (or even entire living quarters) has become littered with baggies and open tins that cannot possibly be finished before they go stale. You buy a case of preserving jars.

Level 4: You have used up a case of preserving jars and learned that age improves some of the finer tobaccos you've now encountered. You decide to buy some of these in bulk and cellar them. No online dealer has them all, so multiple orders are required, each order needing a little padding to get free shipping. You buy more preserving jars.

Level 5: You have rather a lot of tobacco, larger than necessary quantities of this and that plus things you wish you had tried earlier, so you decide to give some away to start a newbie off right (and get a tin of that Hamborger Veermaster or Royal Yacht you've been wanting to try). You are now a TAD carrier, actively spreading the disease. 

Level 6: You have built, bought or dedicated a cabinet, shelf or desk to hold your collection of jars and tins and baggies. (This is frequently a syndrome parallel with PAD Level 6, where a pipes/tobacco ensemble is assembled.) You begin to photograph your tobacco cellar. You spend too much of your spare time at tobaccoreviews.com, reading other people's opinions of tobacco that you actually have but haven't tried yet. You realize you are almost out of pipe cleaners, order a lot of them but not so many that you don't need some of the Dunhill tins you are surprised to see in stock to get free shipping. 

Level 7: Some tobaccos have eluded you. You begin watching for heads-up posts about their availability: 1. Quantities are limited, but you buy all you can and get a few more tins of this and that to get free shipping. 2. They have pounds in bulk, so you get a pound plus another pound of something else from the same blender, say St. James Flake and a kicker of Squadron Leader -- and a tin or three of something to get free shipping. You realize that you will always need more preserving jars unless something is done. 

Descriptions of Levels 8-12 contain graphic material associated with Tobacco Acquisition Disease proper, not suitable to a public forum.


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## Xodar (Mar 4, 2011)

:lalala:

It's not a disease, I can quit anytime I like. I'm beating the taxes, and you won't be able to ship tobacco soon. Louisiana is flooding, and whatever it's origin that makes me feel like I need to order some more VaPers. And sh**, an Esoterica shipment just arrived. I'm just going to go look at it, not going to buy it, really...


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## freestoke (Feb 13, 2011)

Xodar said:


> :lalala:
> 
> It's not a disease, I can quit anytime I like. I'm beating the taxes, and you won't be able to ship tobacco soon. Louisiana is flooding, and whatever it's origin that makes me feel like I need to order some more VaPers. And sh**, an Esoterica shipment just arrived. I'm just going to go look at it, not going to buy it, really...


Please. That's all Level 8 and above! There could be children here, lying about their age!


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## Commander Quan (May 6, 2003)

John you A-hole, I just went and checked all the sites for Stonehaven.


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## DanR (Nov 27, 2010)

I think I'm level 4.5

I have an order coming from SP tomorrow :banana:, and one from joes following shortly thereafter (maybe saturday - I hope, I hope, I hope!). My order(s) included "extra" tins of Irish Flake, Orlik GS, and Dunhill Flake - cause I really like those and they need to age a little!

Last Night, I explained to my wife how she can watch the websites for the next few days to order a 2011 Peterson Father's Day Pipe for me if she REALLY loved me!

I just bought my 4th case of canning jars last weekend, mainly so I could separate the jars of aromatics that I bought months ago, from the beautiful virgina flakes that I have in one case, and the english blends in another...

Hmmm, I wonder if anyone has Stonehaven or FVF in stock yet. Gotta go check every site I know, see you guys later!


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## Xodar (Mar 4, 2011)

Commander Quan said:


> John you A-hole, I just went and checked all the sites for Stonehaven.


 :sorry: Haha, sorry. I actually thought "I hope my inbox doesn't fill up with where's the esoterica posts" as I was typing. Methinks you're definitely a class 9+ CQ arty:


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## freestoke (Feb 13, 2011)

DanR said:


> I think I'm level 4.5


We never want to admit we are as sick as we really are.


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## SmoknTaz (Jun 18, 2008)

Jim, is there a support group for this cause we all know there is no turning back!


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## DanR (Nov 27, 2010)

freestoke said:


> We never want to admit we are as sick as we really are.


What?? I thought this was a therapy session?

"hi everybody, my name is Dan and I have stage 4 TAD."


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## Contrabass Bry (May 3, 2010)

uh, Jim... have you been watching me?!?
:shocked:


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## NarJar (May 9, 2011)

DanR said:


> I explained to my wife how she can watch the websites for the next few days to order a 2011 Peterson Father's Day Pipe for me if she REALLY loved me!


Dan, please tell me you are NOT the father of your wife! :hmm:


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## commonsenseman (Apr 18, 2008)

Geeze, I think I passed level 7 a year ago.....


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## CWL (Mar 25, 2010)

Unfortunately, my disorder stage is in the double-digits...

I have TAPAD!


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## KBibbs (Oct 28, 2008)

Next you're going to stat telling me it's a bad thing I have nearly a pound of tobacco jarred up in my car for on-the-go needs...


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## CWL (Mar 25, 2010)

KBibbs said:


> Next you're going to stat telling me it's a bad thing I have nearly a pound of tobacco jarred up in my car for on-the-go needs...


I hadn't thought of that!

Note to self: research refrigerated car trailers...


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## Xodar (Mar 4, 2011)

KBibbs said:


> Next you're going to stat telling me it's a bad thing I have nearly a pound of tobacco jarred up in my car for on-the-go needs...


You sir are an innovator! I lug a couple of get-by tins around in a backpack in case I forget my pouch, but I bow to the trunk-cellar.


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## KBibbs (Oct 28, 2008)

Xodar said:


> You sir are an innovator! I lug a couple of get-by tins around in a backpack in case I forget my pouch, but I bow to the trunk-cellar.


Well actually, the trunk is the pipe cabinet. Along with the glove box of course. I found that the space behind the passenger seat (in front of the back seats which I rarely use) fits several glass jars quite well. I put a black suit case (one of those bags that they give you when you buy a new blazer) over the jars and that shields the sun pretty well. It gets hot here but I have yet to have any problems.

Then of course, I also have my stash in the house :smoke2:


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## Commander Quan (May 6, 2003)

And in a pinch I think the socket for the donut spare can be used as a pipe.


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## DanR (Nov 27, 2010)

NarJar said:


> Dan, please tell me you are NOT the father of your wife! :hmm:


Well, I am from Tennessee originally... but no. I just didn't think it would be a good idea for my teenage kids to be ordering stuff from online tobacco retailers...


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## canadianpiper (Nov 27, 2010)

Oh man I think I am at level 6 now and not that far from 7,. I just recieved an order from pipesand cigars but I just noticed a great pipe on Smokingpipes that I may pull the trigger on. 
On second thought I might already be at level 7


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## freestoke (Feb 13, 2011)

Contrabass Bry said:


> uh, Jim... have you been watching me?!?
> :shocked:


Of course. We have an extensive data base of your posts, online purchases and trading history that have been analyzed by our diagnostic software. We feel that you need to speak with one of our TAD counselors. Level 11 should not be ignored.


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## freestoke (Feb 13, 2011)

KBibbs said:


> I put a black suit case (one of those bags that they give you when you buy a new blazer) over the jars and that shields the sun pretty well. It gets hot here but I have yet to have any problems.


Level 9 calls out the use of unusual equipment in service to the tobacco collection, in addition to finding odd places for portions of it for matters of convenience. When the motivation is to ensure the survivability of parts of you cellar, say in the case of thermonuclear warfare, you have reached Level 10.


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## Commander Quan (May 6, 2003)

freestoke said:


> Of course. We have an extensive data base of your posts, online purchases and trading history that have been analyzed by our diagnostic software. We feel that you need to speak with one of our TAD counselors. Level 11 should not be ignored.


We will than be happy to transfer your call to one of our debt counselors, who can assist you in securing and consolidating your credit card debt from the purchase of tobacco and pipe related goods. We work closely with Smoking Pipes, Pipes And Cigars, Mars Cigars and 4 Noggins to made sure that all of your pipe tobacco purchases can be consolidated into one lump sum and then paid off in low monthly payments.


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## MarkC (Jul 4, 2009)

freestoke said:


> Level 9 calls out the use of unusual equipment in service to the tobacco collection, in addition to finding odd places for portions of it for matters of convenience. When the motivation is to ensure the survivability of parts of you cellar, say in the case of thermonuclear warfare, you have reached Level 10.


"I don't CARE if the radio says missles have been launched; the bomb shelter is for my tobacco!!!"


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## freestoke (Feb 13, 2011)

MarkC said:


> "I don't CARE if the radio says missles have been launched; the bomb shelter is for my tobacco!!!"


:biglaugh:


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## freestoke (Feb 13, 2011)

Commander Quan said:


> We will than be happy to transfer your call to one of our debt counselors, who can assist you in securing and consolidating your credit card debt from the purchase of tobacco and pipe related goods. We work closely with Smoking Pipes, Pipes And Cigars, Mars Cigars and 4 Noggins to made sure that all of your pipe tobacco purchases can be consolidated into one lump sum and then paid off in low monthly payments.


Good to know, Commander. (This is why we pay you the big bucks. :tu)


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## Cantiloper (May 1, 2005)

Please rest assured that even if you are suffering from TAD things COULD be worse.

I have raised the ire of many Antismokers out there in netland when I've pointed out to them that they are likely suffering from ASDS (AntiSmoker's Dysfunction Syndrome) and advised them to get help at:

{ ::sigh:: OK... forgot about that 30 posts thing. In any event, if you want to look for what I'm talking about just google "antismokers' dysfunction" in quotes like that and choose Recovery From ASDS. }

The funniest thing is how many Antismokers respond with absolute outrage, demanding to know what right I have to accuse them of mental disorders, defending their sanity, and generally acting like people who truly HAVE had major dealings in their lives with the mental health establishment.

Heh.... of course that doesn't actually *surprise* me very much!


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## MarkC (Jul 4, 2009)

Here's the link for ya: Recovery from ASDS


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## Mante (Dec 25, 2009)

Cantiloper said:


> Please rest assured that even if you are suffering from TAD things COULD be worse.
> 
> I have raised the ire of many Antismokers out there in netland when I've pointed out to them that they are likely suffering from ASDS (AntiSmoker's Dysfunction Syndrome) and advised them to get help at:
> 
> ...





MarkC said:


> Here's the link for ya: Recovery from ASDS


ROTFLMAO!!! Wow, we now have a disorder for the people that chastise us, that is great. I may be using this a LOT in the near future.


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## Nachman (Oct 16, 2010)

What level is it when, as an old man, you have more tobacco than you can reasonably be expected to use in your lifetime, yet each month you wait for the credit cards to bill so you can add another order or two. You keep making resolutions not to buy any more tobacco for x period of time, but you get more and more nervous so that after about 30 days you feel you are about to pop if you don't order tobacco so you get just one more little hundred dollar order. You also tell yourself "New pipes and B&M purchases weren't part of the resolution." and try to assuage your anxiety by making a few of those purchases. Never mind.. I don't have a problem. Old people are allowed to be a little eccentric.


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## Nachman (Oct 16, 2010)

MarkC said:


> Here's the link for ya: Recovery from ASDS


Although tongue in cheek, this is at least as well thought out and scholarly as any popular work on tobacco usage I have seen.


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## freestoke (Feb 13, 2011)

MarkC said:


> Here's the link for ya: Recovery from ASDS


Thanks Mark...and EXCELLENT, Michael!! :tu


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## freestoke (Feb 13, 2011)

Nachman said:


> What level is it when, as an old man, you have more tobacco than you can reasonably be expected to use in your lifetime, yet each month you wait for the credit cards to bill so you can add another order or two.


I'm almost in the same boat. As long as you are you are trying new tobaccos or replacing what you really like, as opposed to irrationally hoarding, I think you safely clock in at level 4 or 5. This is a serious disorder, but not at disease levels yet, so nothing to worry about. Buy on!


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## Zfog (Oct 16, 2010)

How did I miss this thread? Too busy hunting forpipe weed methinks. lol
I saw the 2nd post and immediately thought about scanning for Stoney but figuring I was too late!
After a few months in this hobby I am officially at level 8. without a doubt, now excuse me while I go check out my spare tire/iron. Gonna see how long it will take to build a cake.


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## 68 Lotus (Jan 13, 2011)

I think I'm about a .5 level! :doh:


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## MarkC (Jul 4, 2009)

There are people out there to help you if you suffer from TAD or PAD; don't hesitate to look for help! However, there is another group of sufferers out there who are ignored. Yes, I'm talking about those who suffer from AAD, or Accessory Acquisition Disorder. Once this has set in, all is lost. I ordered a nice lighter last week, I need a Senior Reamer, and that green Peterson ashtray is showing up in my dreams...


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## KBibbs (Oct 28, 2008)

Don't worry brethren, there is hope! I am an official official who specializes in curing TAD and PAD. 
Step 1: Take all your pipes, tobacco, and accessories and put them in a box.
Step 2: Put my address on that box.
Step 3: Mail that box to me.
Step 4: Enjoy your disorder free lifestyle!
*If symptoms persist, repeat steps 1 through 3.


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## freestoke (Feb 13, 2011)

MarkC said:


> ...there is another group of sufferers out there who are ignored. Yes, I'm talking about those who suffer from AAD, or Accessory Acquisition Disorder. Once this has set in, all is lost. I ordered a nice lighter last week, I need a Senior Reamer, and that green Peterson ashtray is showing up in my dreams...


:shocked:

Pouches. Tampers. Pipe rests and racks. Leather pipe cleaner holders. Suitcase size deluxe travel cases for carrying your pipes, tobacco and...accessories. If I ever run across one of those pouches like Chief Inspector Hubbard had in Dial M for Murder, I'll have to have it, no doubt.

I hope I'm not getting sick.


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## italiansmoker (Sep 30, 2009)

LOL! I suppose I'm in the 11th level...


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## italiansmoker (Sep 30, 2009)

Level 36 here... I'm experimenting symptoms of multiple personalities, at least three I guess... and each one as a no.12 TAD level... so do the math!


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## MarkC (Jul 4, 2009)

Hah! Nice to see this one again. And yes, I now have the Peterson green ashtray and the Senior Reamer...


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## freestoke (Feb 13, 2011)

italiansmoker said:


> Level 36 here... I'm experimenting symptoms of multiple personalities, at least three I guess... and each one as a no.12 TAD level... so do the math!


The counselors met in conference to discuss this matter and recommend keeping the number of personalities down to fewer than four, if only from the standpoint of cost and closet space. I'd keep that fourth personality on the back burner, unless you expect a raise and a move to roomier surroundings.

I'm a Level 12 wannabe, but I can't afford it.


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## Longer ash (Aug 11, 2011)

:banghead: I am midway thru level 3 and am looking at prices on canning jars


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## laloin (Jun 29, 2010)

think I'm at lvl 10 now. Am trying to put a order together, but that Hamburger Veemaster keeps me from doing soo. All thanks to Mark and his hoarding. help!!!!!


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## Dr. Plume (Sep 24, 2012)

I don't know where I fit it. I feel like my collection is maybe a level two but I have a rare form of tad and pad that makes me most contagious. I have no clue what to do but all my friends are dropping like flies down the slope. Help please.


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## AStateJB (Oct 13, 2011)

Hello. My name is josh and I have a problem...










The Sutliff came with my Cbid order Wednesday. Then yesterday I placed an order with 4noggins totaling 13.5oz. Then today I picked up the Drama Reserve, to use in blending, the Blue Mountain, for my LOTR Smoke-along, and the FM Cellar, because so far I love all things FM.


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## Dr. Plume (Sep 24, 2012)

If you like the blue mountain you should vote for it in the January poll!


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## AStateJB (Oct 13, 2011)

Dr. Plume said:


> If you like the blue mountain you should vote for it in the January poll!


I'll find out as soon as Bilbo, Fili, Kili, Oin, Gloin, Bifur, Bofur, Bombur, Ori, Dori, Nori, Balin, Dwalin, and Thorin Oakensheild make it to Lonely Mountain.


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## freestoke (Feb 13, 2011)

AStateJB said:


> Hello. My name is josh and I have a problem...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


As I said, the later stages contain graphic descriptions and photographs. Apparently there is no stopping you people from this sort of public disclosures of personal problems.

Level 9: You begin posting photographs of your latest TAD binges to pipe smoking forums.


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## AStateJB (Oct 13, 2011)

freestoke said:


> As I said, the later stages contain graphic descriptions and photographs. Apparently there is no stopping you people from this sort of public disclosures of personal problems.
> 
> Level 9: You begin posting photographs of your latest TAD binges to pipe smoking forums.


:lol: Just wait till you see my 4noggins order... You may trade the level of my condition. Especially considering I have more baccy than I can smoke in the foreseeable future already. :doh:


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## freestoke (Feb 13, 2011)

AStateJB said:


> Especially considering I have more baccy than I can smoke in the foreseeable future already. :doh:


You have revealed the horrific undercurrent that carries this disease inexorably toward Level 9 -- and beyond. The more tobacco we have, the safer we feel; but there is never enough, so we buy more, to feel more secure against the TabakNazis. It is the repressed fear that the internet will stop selling us tobacco tax free or that UPS will suddenly have rules against tobacco shipments or the credit card companies...or something. It eats at us, so we order ever more tobacco, until we begin to show up on national registries of the sorely afflicted, say tobaccocellar.com. Somehow, this makes us feel better, knowing there are others even worse off than we, which makes it all so easy to go on, buying without end.


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## Blue_2 (Jan 25, 2011)

Now here's a 12 step program I like. By the time I found out about it....I'm already in the latter stages! 

What do I get for completing the program? ipe:


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## Desertlifter (Feb 22, 2011)

I think that this tells the tale....the "useless statistics" frame from tobaccocellar.com......see anybody from here, hmmmm?????? 

Members with the largest cellars: 
DirtyHarry has 525 containers with 156 lbs 14.6 oz 
gradstudent has 729 containers with 139 lbs 11.3 oz 
CWL has 674 containers with 134 lbs 11 oz 
Zentharim has 499 containers with 132 lbs 2.9 oz 
themroc has 934 containers with 121 lbs 14.7 oz 
ultramag has 653 containers with 90 lbs 
RJPuffs has 417 containers with 70 lbs 2.4 oz 
magnumsmoker has 13 containers with 65 lbs 
MarkC has 447 containers with 61 lbs 3.7 oz 
Del has 253 containers with 60 lbs 1.6 oz

Most puffing members last 30 days: 
commonsenseman finished 50 containers 
gahdzila finished 13 containers 
aquaholic finished 12 containers 
derlict311 finished 9 containers 
DrT999 finished 7 containers 
TheMadProfessor finished 7 containers 
Vfd421 finished 5 containers 
Danr finished 5 containers 
Freestoke finished 5 containers 
JoeLuka finished 5 containers

Top members suffering from TAD (tobacco acquisition disorder): 
MarkC added 18 containers 
Gravel added 10 containers 
conroygc added 9 containers 
TheMadProfessor added 9 containers 
NikonNUT added 5 containers 
nismo270r added 5 containers 
pipeIT added 5 containers 
derlict311 added 4 containers 
andrewdk added 3 containers 
BigBehr added 3 containers

New members in last 7 days: 
NikonNUT has 7 containers with 2 lbs 3 oz 
cardboardphone has 4 containers with 8 oz 
Dark Rose has 1 containers with 1.8 oz


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## AStateJB (Oct 13, 2011)

I need to get an account with tobacco cellar...


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## MarkC (Jul 4, 2009)

Um...I thought those were different people with the same name! None of us are _that_ far gone, are we?


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## freestoke (Feb 13, 2011)

AStateJB said:


> I need to get an account with tobacco cellar...


And so it goes...


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## lostdog13 (Jan 16, 2012)

AStateJB said:


> I need to get an account with tobacco cellar...


Me too, and it's about to get worse.

Is there a level that grants passes for when you quit cigarettes, or a significant allowance of tins before being catagorized because of that? On day 9, so figure it is ok for me to start smoking pipes again. Have had 2 cigars in those 9, but been around smokers constantly and have not had an urge for a cigarette since day 5.


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## freestoke (Feb 13, 2011)

lostdog13 said:


> Me too, and it's about to get worse.
> 
> Is there a level that grants passes for when you quit cigarettes, or a significant allowance of tins before being catagorized because of that? On day 9, so figure it is ok for me to start smoking pipes again. Have had 2 cigars in those 9, but been around smokers constantly and have not had an urge for a cigarette since day 5.


On a pack-a-day habit, you've already saved enough for a tub of PA, a can of Reiner LGF, and a nice estate pipe off ebay. :smile:


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## lostdog13 (Jan 16, 2012)

freestoke said:


> On a pack-a-day habit, you've already saved enough for a tub of PA, a can of Reiner LGF, or even a nice estate pipe off ebay. :smile:


yep, was a pack-a-day. Cigar purchases have been a bit heavy this month though, so haven't saved anything .


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## freestoke (Feb 13, 2011)

lostdog13 said:


> yep, was a pack-a-day. Cigar purchases have been a bit heavy this month though, so haven't saved anything .


Quite a few immigrants from the cigar side have slowed those purchases, too. (I recalculated your cig savings, BTW. :lol: I was working on 5 days for some reason. Your check's in the mail.) You'll soon find other ways to save money to support your TAD, like giving up soap and toothpaste or selling your children into slavery.


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## Desertlifter (Feb 22, 2011)

There is no cure for TAD, sadly. There is however a treatment for its symptoms. It's kind of similar to treating the common cold in a way with one major difference. When treating a cold, one seeks to abate its symptoms. You might use a cough suppresent, analgesic, or decongestant to make your symptoms more tolerable while your body fights the virus.

In fighting TAD, one must remove not the symptom, but the body's (so to speak) ability to carry the symptom. It is analogous to removing your sinuses to get rid of a sinus infection. I recommend the following clinics to treat TAD:

Hekthor Wiebe Handcrafted Pipes

Pulvers Briar

Estate Pipes at Smoking Pipes .com

Hope this helps!


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## freestoke (Feb 13, 2011)

Desertlifter said:


> I recommend the following clinics to treat TAD:
> 
> Hekthor Wiebe Handcrafted Pipes
> 
> ...


Almost certainly. Nothing like a little PAD to take your mind off your TAD.


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## McFortner (May 13, 2007)

I'm at Stage 3 TAD, quickly approaching Stage 4. The only thing holding me back is that I have nowhere to store cellered tobacco right now. I'm trying to figure out what I can get rid of to have more space. Naturally, the Tupperdor-O-Death 1 and 2 would not go, they hold the cigars. Maybe I can make some room in the linen closet?


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## deke (Aug 19, 2013)

freestoke said:


> While Tobacco Acquisition Disorder and its more serious manifestation, Tobacco Acquisition Disease, describe the characteristics of the malady, symptom severity can differ from individual to individual as the disease progresses. It would be in the interest of the pipe smoking community to more fully recognize and classify these variations to help pipers analyze their specific health issues. We can improve only if we first admit we have a problem, or so they say.
> 
> Level 1: A handful of blends has worn thin. An online sampler pack to try some different tobaccos contains a few winners. You reorder too much of those tobaccos along with more samples. You have opted for a Puff newbie sampler pack.
> 
> ...


I'm a cigar guy. Are there pipe tobacco devil sites like CBid a/k/a "pushers", waiting to sell you your latest fix?


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## El wedo del milagro (Jul 3, 2012)

deke said:


> I'm a cigar guy. Are there pipe tobacco devil sites like CBid a/k/a "pushers", waiting to sell you your latest fix?


Hell yeah!

Pipesandcigars (dotcom), smokingpipes (dotcom), 4Noggins(dotcom), etc. Even cigars international and c-bid have pipe stuff now!

BTW, my TAD has reached the border of level 7 now...


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## deke (Aug 19, 2013)

AStateJB said:


> I'll find out as soon as Bilbo, Fili, Kili, Oin, Gloin, Bifur, Bofur, Bombur, Ori, Dori, Nori, Balin, Dwalin, and Thorin Oakensheild make it to Lonely Mountain.


That is very funny. Balrog in the pipe?


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## McFortner (May 13, 2007)

I just wish Gandalf and the gang would stop swiping my tobacco every time they are here. You'd think they would share some of theirs, cheap b******s.


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