# Wayner123 Vs Vanderburg: Blind Taste Test



## Tw3nty (Jan 25, 2008)

This is sort of a copy post of the Frendster Vs Moki post.

Wayner and I agreed to send each other 4 cigars. 2 Cuban and 2 non Cuban. We are less structured than Moki and Frendster. We are working on the honor system that neither one of us would study the construction of the cigars and just go on taste.

There will be no pictures because that would influence our taste. We would have to look at the sticks to take pictures.

I am posting my review of cigar 1 now.

*Pre-light draw:*

The cigar had a spicy pre-light draw. I could taste the spice on my lips.

*Post-light taste:*

The first part of the cigar was very spicy and very strong. In fact, I thought the cigar was a maduro. My mistake--as wayner informed me there were no maduros in the bunch. Damn, this is hard.

I really feel like i have tasted this cigar before. Not sure.

As the cigar went on it confused me. It stayed very spicy and strong for the first inch. Spicy like a real hot beef jerky and strong enough to make me wobbly.

After the first inch, the cigar got smoother for about half an inch. Then, the strength and spice returned. The cigar continued to get spicier. and increased in strength.

The cigar was spicy and strong to the end. I smoked the cigar to the nub, and it never burned hot.

*The construction:
*The construction was great. The cigar held to two ashes.
*
The pick:*

Now, is the cigar Cuban. I am torn. The cigar was so strong that it could be but, I am going to guess not.

I am guessing it is not a cuban because the spice and strength was to strong.

I am probably wrong. I would give the cigar a solid 8.8 out of 10.

My guess for what the cigar is? it is either a LFD or a Camacho. The only cigars I think are this strong. Seriously leaning towards the LFD.

Can not wait to find out what the stick was. I really liked the cigar.


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## pistol (Mar 23, 2006)

*Re: wayner123 Vs. Vanderburg*



vanderburg said:


> There will be no pictures because that would influence our taste. We would have to look at the sticks to take pictures.


Don't you have to look at the cigar in order to pick it up and smoke it?! Nice job though, have fun!


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## Tw3nty (Jan 25, 2008)

*Re: wayner123 Vs. Vanderburg*



pistol said:


> Don't you have to look at the cigar in order to pick it up and smoke it?! Nice job though, have fun!


Looking at and studying are very different. We are allowed to look. My camera is so precise that looking at a cigar through zoom is studying.


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## Harpo (Oct 11, 2007)

*Re: wayner123 Vs. Vanderburg*

GO FREDSTER!!

:chk

Do you have to smoke them in the dark or something? Look forward to seeing the results!


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## Tw3nty (Jan 25, 2008)

*Re: wayner123 Vs. Vanderburg*



Harpo said:


> GO FREDSTER!!
> 
> :chk
> 
> Do you have to smoke them in the dark or something? Look forward to seeing the results!


See my previous post. I do not know how to add multiple posts in a reply. sorry.


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## pistol (Mar 23, 2006)

*Re: wayner123 Vs. Vanderburg*



vanderburg said:


> Looking at and studying are very different. We are allowed to look. My camera is so precise that looking at a cigar through zoom is studying.


Gotcha, in your original post, you said "we would have to look at our cigars..." so I was confused. Carry on, and good luck!


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## wayner123 (Mar 29, 2007)

Vanderburg, I'll post the result when I get home today, as I left my list there.

This is just a friendly contest to see if our palate's are in the least way developing. I don't want to be challenging Moki's thread in any way, and this thread was born more out of the fact that no one was taking vanderburg up on his Blind taste test: http://www.clubstogie.com/vb/showthread.php?t=109223&page=39

So we decided to do a small aside type of testing. Hope you all will enjoy. if not, that's fine too. :ss

About the examining. Looking and examining are two different things entirely. There is no measuring, no checking the caps, comparing RG's etc. That is what is meant. I would love to do mine blindfolded, but my wife can't stand the smell.


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## wayner123 (Mar 29, 2007)

Well I went over my list, and vanderburg you are correct sir!!

This was a 601 Red, Non Cuban. They are some spicy cigars. I don't find the nic from them bad at all, but tastes and strength are subjective. I will smoke your first one tonight and hope I do as well.


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## DennisP (May 13, 2007)

wayner123 said:


> Well I went over my list, and vanderburg you are correct sir!!
> 
> This was a 601 Red, Non Cuban. They are some spicy cigars. I don't find the nic from them bad at all, but tastes and strength are subjective. I will smoke your first one tonight and hope I do as well.


Interesting you say they are spicy. I've found the 601 Habano (red) to be more creamy.

Just an FYI and I'm not trying to throw any doubt on this cigar or anything like is happening in the other thread, Pepin has sent some 601s out with wrong labels. A few months ago I was asking my B&M (wayner may be familiar with Ol' Times) why the wrapper on some of the 601 reds was darker than on others. Wasn't really an explanation then. I bought a figurado and it had been sitting in my humidor for a few months.....I'm in the B&M a few weeks ago and someone asks for some La Punta (green label) and if he has a box. He says he does, but he has singles and shows him, with the red label. He said Pepin gave a bunch of stuff to 601 (forgetting the guys name) that had the wrong labels but correct boxes.

Anyway, random 601 stuff for you. I've found the green to be heavier and giving me much more nicotine kick than the red.


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## wayner123 (Mar 29, 2007)

I'll use vanderburg's outline for testing. This was of smoke number 1

*Pre-light draw:*

There was a sweet twangy taste, but I couldn't put my finger on it.

*Post-light taste:*

The cigar started out with a bit of spice, more like cinnamon than pepper. it burnt razor sharp. Normally cigars are reviewed in thirds but this one went through changes for the first half then settled for the second half. In the first half I would've said this was a very complex smoke. Each puff gave way to sweet, then straight tobacco, then spice. Most of the sweet was like a chocolate taste. The tobacco taste seemed to be of poor quality. And the spice was again like cinnamon. In the second half the sweet/tart taste that was faint in the first half came through most and there was really no difference after that. It stayed with a sweet/tart taste the rest of the way. I could never put my finger on it, but I visualized the way someone smelling flowers would describe it. At first there was a sweet taste, but the more you kept smelling it turned tart. I did not like this second half.

*The construction:
*The construction was very good. I don't rate them on ash length as the holes in my smoking pants make me ash regularly. But the burn was sharp and I did not have to touch it up once. One note was that it burned hot with over 2 inches to go. I usually nub every cigar I smoke, but this one burned so hot that with over an inch to go I had to put it out.
*
The pick:*
I am going to guess non-cuban. Mainly because I have not tasted many cuban's that I would rate sweet like I would a NC. While the first half was great, the second half made me want to put it out.

I would give the cigar a 5 out of 10. And would not buy it on my own.


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## wayner123 (Mar 29, 2007)

DennisP said:


> Interesting you say they are spicy. I've found the 601 Habano (red) to be more creamy.
> 
> Just an FYI and I'm not trying to throw any doubt on this cigar or anything like is happening in the other thread, Pepin has sent some 601s out with wrong labels. A few months ago I was asking my B&M (wayner may be familiar with Ol' Times) why the wrapper on some of the 601 reds was darker than on others. Wasn't really an explanation then. I bought a figurado and it had been sitting in my humidor for a few months.....I'm in the B&M a few weeks ago and someone asks for some La Punta (green label) and if he has a box. He says he does, but he has singles and shows him, with the red label. He said Pepin gave a bunch of stuff to 601 (forgetting the guys name) that had the wrong labels but correct boxes.
> 
> Anyway, random 601 stuff for you. I've found the green to be heavier and giving me much more nicotine kick than the red.


Thanks for that information. I got my 601 red from Corona though. Ever since Ol' times closed their mall store I find Corona is my go to store, even at the inflated prices. It still may be the case though, but they go through a lot more inventory over at Corona.

I agree that the green is the most spicy and most nic level blend they have. I have tried all of them now, and none of them impressed me much to buy again.


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## Tw3nty (Jan 25, 2008)

wayner123 said:


> I'll use vanderburg's outline for testing. This was of smoke number 1
> 
> *Pre-light draw:*
> 
> ...


Well, Wayner123, you too are correct. this cigar was the CAO tenth anniversary. I really like this cigar a s a morning smoke. I agree that it sometimes burns to ho tat the end. The shape this cigar does that sometimes. Sorry you did not like this cigar.
Robert


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## DBall (Jun 4, 2007)

Very awesome thread so far, guys! :tu:tu


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## Tw3nty (Jan 25, 2008)

I'm back and giving the review for cigar 2.

What a great stick. Very impressed. I think Wayner and I think too much alike.
I will reveal the reasons later.

*
Pre-Light Draw:*

The draw was real buttery. Seemed to leave an oily, buttery taste on my lips. Could also feel the oily nature of the cigar on my fingers. My fingers are slipping on the keys as I type.

*Post-Light Taste:*

This cigar tasted really buttery and complex from the beginning. A very medium cigar. I am trying to find a way to describe the taste as best I can. It was like a like a smooth, creamy coffee minus the coffee taste. Had a hint of caramel taste to it.

As the cigar developed to its second third of the cigar the taste increased without getting stronger. The cigar presented immense complexities as I went along, a cornucopia of butters, caramels and nuts.

The last third of the cigar increased in spice. The spice at the end was a nice topping on this cigar that felt like a dessert. I would have to say this was one of the better cigars I have ever smoked.

*The Construction:

*This cigar had some small construction issues. When I say small, I mean minor. Had to touch up the light twice. Smoked the cigar to the nub. Got a little hot at the end. I attribute this to the fact that the cigar was more of a medium cigar.

*The Pick:*

This was clearly a Cuban, I think. The complexity and mix of flavors were obvious. I even think this was an aged Cuban cigar, before 00.

The hard part now is guessing the marca--this is a new word for me. I hope it means maker.

I am going to have to guess that the cigar is a Bolivar or an aged Romeo. I am so not sure about this. I am leaning towards the Romeo.

Again, I am dripping with anticipation.

I would give this cigar a 9.8 out of 10. Mostly because of the construction issues mentioned. Loved the taste


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## Smoked (Apr 12, 2007)

DBall said:


> Very awesome thread so far, guys! :tu:tu


I agree.


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## wayner123 (Mar 29, 2007)

vanderburg said:


> *The Pick:*
> 
> This was clearly a Cuban, I think. The complexity and mix of flavors were obvious. I even think this was an aged Cuban cigar, before 00.
> 
> ...


vanderburg, you are ...... right again!! This was a Cuban. However, it was not an aged one at all. It was a '07 Ramon Allones Specially Selected (RASS). What's even weirder is that I don't find these to be anything like you described. I find them a bit nutty but mostly bland. That only goes to show how subjective taste is.

So that's 2 correct. I hope to smoke the second one from you tonight, and again I hope to do just as well. Thanks.:ss


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## Tw3nty (Jan 25, 2008)

wayner123 said:


> vanderburg, you are ...... right again!! This was a Cuban. However, it was not an aged one at all. It was a '07 Ramon Allones Specially Selected (RASS). What's even weirder is that I don't find these to be anything like you described. I find them a bit nutty but mostly bland. That only goes to show how subjective taste is.
> 
> So that's 2 correct. I hope to smoke the second one from you tonight, and again I hope to do just as well. Thanks.:ss


Thank you so much. I have never had a RASS so I was in the dark. really shocked the cigar was so young. Interesting that we tasted them so differently. I really love this. Glad you were willing to partake in this blind taste. Glad to get to know you.


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## rumballs (Mar 15, 2005)

wayner123 said:


> It was a '07 Ramon Allones Specially Selected (RASS). What's even weirder is that I don't find these to be anything like you described. I find them a bit nutty but mostly bland. That only goes to show how subjective taste is.


What's also funny is that I was reading the review, thinking "if this IS cuban, let me see if I can guess what marca it is purely based on Vanderburg's review. Hmmm. Sounds kind of like a Ramon Allones." So - I guess the way he and I taste this cigar is very similar, and he did a good job of describing it!

Cool thread, guys!


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## Zoomschwortz (Jul 14, 2006)

vanderburg said:


> This cigar tasted really buttery and complex from the beginning. A very medium cigar. I am trying to find a way to describe the taste as best I can. It was like a like a smooth, creamy coffee minus the coffee taste. Had a hint of caramel taste to it.
> 
> As the cigar developed to its second third of the cigar the taste increased without getting stronger. The cigar presented immense complexities as I went along, a cornucopia of butters, caramels and nuts.
> 
> The last third of the cigar increased in spice. The spice at the end was a nice topping on this cigar that felt like a dessert. I would have to say this was one of the better cigars I have ever smoked.


The way you worded this:dr

I have to try one.

Great thread.
Ken


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## yayson (Aug 21, 2006)

vanderburg said:


> Again, I am dripping with anticipation.


The way you worded this :tg 

This is good stuff fellas, thanks for sharing


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## Tw3nty (Jan 25, 2008)

mmblz said:


> What's also funny is that I was reading the review, thinking "if this IS cuban, let me see if I can guess what marca it is purely based on Vanderburg's review. Hmmm. Sounds kind of like a Ramon Allones." So - I guess the way he and I taste this cigar is very similar, and he did a good job of describing it!
> 
> Cool thread, guys!


As a newbie, I consider you comparing your pallet to mine an honor. Thanks


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## Zoomschwortz (Jul 14, 2006)

vanderburg said:


> Again, I am dripping with anticipation.
> 
> Loved the taste


Too much information:bn


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## Tw3nty (Jan 25, 2008)

Zoomschwortz said:


> Too much information:bn


 Quote:
Originally Posted by *vanderburg* http://www.clubstogie.com/vb/showthread.php?p=1504567#post1504567 
_Again, I am dripping with anticipation._

The way you worded this :tg 

This is good stuff fellas, thanks for sharing
__________________

One guy loves it; one hates it. what can you do?


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## yayson (Aug 21, 2006)

vanderburg said:


> One guy loves it; one hates it. what can you do?


I think both love it, it's just amusing  I assume English was not your original language? Some of the ways you say things are a little different and can be taken in other ways than what you intended. That can be quite fun!

Language aside you communicate very clearly and sincerely, appreciated! :tu


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## Zoomschwortz (Jul 14, 2006)

yayson said:


> I think both love it, it's just amusing  I assume English was not your original language? Some of the ways you say things are a little different and can be taken in other ways than what you intended. That can be quite fun!
> 
> Language aside you communicate very clearly and sincerely, appreciated! :tu


:tpd::tu


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## moki (Jan 12, 2004)

wayner123 said:


> vanderburg, you are ...... right again!! This was a Cuban. However, it was not an aged one at all. It was a '07 Ramon Allones Specially Selected (RASS). What's even weirder is that I don't find these to be anything like you described. I find them a bit nutty but mostly bland. That only goes to show how subjective taste is.


FAKES!!!!!!!

(just kidding!  )

Very cool thread, I think doing blind taste tests is always fun and rewarding! If nothing else, it really forces you to focus on what you're actually tasting.


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## pistol (Mar 23, 2006)

wayner123 said:


> vanderburg, you are ...... right again!! This was a Cuban. However, it was not an aged one at all. It was a '07 Ramon Allones Specially Selected (RASS). What's even weirder is that I don't find these to be anything like you described. I find them a bit nutty but mostly bland. That only goes to show how subjective taste is.
> 
> So that's 2 correct. I hope to smoke the second one from you tonight, and again I hope to do just as well. Thanks.:ss


I agree, young RASS do nothing for me! Nice job Vanderburg!


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## Puffin Fresh (Nov 1, 2006)

This is another fun thread... 

It might be too late for this advice, but if you know ahead of time there are 2 cubans and 2 non cubans, and then as you go along you find out what each cigar is... the guessing might not be too hard by the 3rd or 4th depending on the order.

I hope you see my point.

I may be up for doing this with someone in the future though.


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## moki (Jan 12, 2004)

Sauer Grapes said:


> This is another fun thread...
> 
> It might be too late for this advice, but if you know ahead of time there are 2 cubans and 2 non cubans, and then as you go along you find out what each cigar is... the guessing might not be too hard by the 3rd or 4th depending on the order..


yep, agreed... and also cigar selection is important too, depending on what the nature of the test is.


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## Tw3nty (Jan 25, 2008)

Sauer Grapes said:


> This is another fun thread...
> 
> It might be too late for this advice, but if you know ahead of time there are 2 cubans and 2 non cubans, and then as you go along you find out what each cigar is... the guessing might not be too hard by the 3rd or 4th depending on the order.
> 
> ...





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Sauer Grapes* http://www.clubstogie.com/vb/showthread.php?p=1504980#post1504980
> _This is another fun thread...
> 
> ...


As the guy who came up with this blind taste, I knew the weaknesses going into it. I am actually a research design professor, so all I could think of at first where the errors with my design. In the end, the most important issue to me was to be fare with the other trader with the number of Cubans, as he did not know me because I am a newbie.

Plus, I decided I just wanted to smoke cigars instead of conduct a true study. If the other person involved in the taste cheats, he gains nothing other than a loss of his own experience.

I could design a very well designed way to conduct the study,but that would be tedious. Plus, as Moki is learning, the best way to run a study is perfectly with the most perfect design or with a minimalistic design because if you go in the middle everyone complains because you took enough effort to look fastidious but fell short.

Mine was obviously thrown together and has so many problems there is too many to pick on.

I do agree Moki, I am also too much of a neophyte to actually make this contest hard. I am not good enough to conduct a good trade. But, if you want to educate me I'm willing to trade with you.

Or for that manner, anyone one else interested in a VanderTrade, PM me.

Moki, I would be honored to take part in a trade with you. You are my Obi Won Kenobi


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## Puffin Fresh (Nov 1, 2006)

I still think it's cool you guys did this. I may work a vandertrade into my schedule in the next couple months.


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## wayner123 (Mar 29, 2007)

Sauer Grapes said:


> This is another fun thread...
> 
> It might be too late for this advice, but if you know ahead of time there are 2 cubans and 2 non cubans, and then as you go along you find out what each cigar is... the guessing might not be too hard by the 3rd or 4th depending on the order.
> 
> ...


Those are good points. This was more of a friendly aside to testing. No real structure except no examining, and know that 2 were cuban and 2 were not. Simple and fun.

Plus it allows me a way to share the fun with a relative noob. And in the process, make another brother of the leaf. :ss

Number 2 is going to die a fiery death tonight!! Muhaahahahaha


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## wayner123 (Mar 29, 2007)

This was a review of smoke number 2

*Pre-light draw:*

There was a sweet grassy taste and the draw was near perfection.

*Post-light taste:*

From the first light this smoke was clearly a Cuban. There was no spice but the smooth sweet hay taste was profound. The flavors did not change much if at all, but the one that was there, kept throughout the smoke. This was a VERY delicious cigar and reminded me of birthday cake with roasted buttery caramel frosting. Not a lot of heft to it, but consistent medium clean feel. Oh how I wished this cigar had not ended. Never once did this cigar get bitter or lose it's smooth sweet taste.

*The construction:
*Construction was flawless. The ash was a little loose, but that was a consequence of the near perfect draw.
*
The pick:*
I am going to guess Cuban. And taking a stab at marca and vitola, I will say Por Larranaga PC. I really really liked this cigar. The only cigar I have had that was this sweet and delicious was a '05 ERDM Choix Supreme.

I would give the cigar a 9 out of 10. And would probably rate it even higher if there had been a touch more complexity.


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## Tw3nty (Jan 25, 2008)

wayner123 said:


> This was a review of smoke number 2
> 
> *Pre-light draw:*
> 
> ...


Congrats again. you are correct in that this cigar is Cuban. However, you are wrong on the marca and vitola. This cigar was a *SUPER PARTAGAS.

*I am wondering if we are just to easy on each other or we are just that good. I would go on the latter because its more fun than believable. Alway choose fun over believable. You are 2 for 2. Nice job


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## wayner123 (Mar 29, 2007)

vanderburg said:


> Congrats again. you are correct in that this cigar is Cuban. However, you are wrong on the marca and vitola. This cigar was a *SUPER PARTAGAS.
> 
> *I am wondering if we are just to easy on each other or we are just that good. I would go on the latter because its more fun than believable. Alway choose fun over believable. You are 2 for 2. Nice job


Weird thing is I was thinking Partagas but most of them have a bit more spice to them. Any idea on age on this bad boy? Hopefully I can pick some up.


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## Tw3nty (Jan 25, 2008)

wayner123 said:


> Weird thing is I was thinking Partagas but most of them have a bit more spice to them. Any idea on age on this bad boy? Hopefully I can pick some up.


Sorry, I bought it as a single and not a box, so I do not have the year. i think is is an 07. I am pretty sure it is not aged.


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## wayner123 (Mar 29, 2007)

This was a review of smoke number 3

*Pre-light draw:*

There was a slighty sweet tobacco taste with a very faint hint of milk chocolate. So faint I might have imagined it.

*Post-light taste:*

The cigar lit up well enough and started out with what I can only describe as a quality tobacco taste. This same taste kept throughout the smoke. It was strong enough to keep me interested, but not so much to over power. A true mild-medium smoke all in all. If someone liked straight tobacco taste and no complexity this would be a very good cigar. Elegant would be a way to describe it.

*The construction:
*Construction was great. The draw was great as well and I lean towards the thought of a marca that has been making cigars a long time.
*
The pick:*
I am going to guess Non cuban. There was no grassy tones or anything else that would make me think otherwise. The one nose exhale I did burnt so badly that I had to stop smoking for a few minutes. Just for the sake of guessing I will say it was RyJ.

I would give the cigar a solid 7 out of 10. If you like straight forward tobacco and great construction and draw this is for you. I prefer sweeter more complex cigars, but every once in a while I like to get back to basics and this would be a good cigar to do that with.


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## Tw3nty (Jan 25, 2008)

wayner123 said:


> This was a review of smoke number 3
> 
> *Pre-light draw:*
> 
> ...


Correct on number three also. This was a non-Cuban. It was actually a Cuesta Rey. Nice review also. Im very impressed. I will get to cigar three tomorrow.


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## Tw3nty (Jan 25, 2008)

Here is my review for cigar 3.

*Pre-light draw:
*
No substantial taste to the pre-ligiht draw. A little spice, but not a lot of taste.

*Post-light taste:

*I found this cigar to e very spicy with a grassy taste. My mouth was left dry throughout most of the cigar.

I did not find a lot of variation in this cigar. It stayed very spicy throughout the cigar. I did not feel the cigar changed tastes throughout the cigar like normal. A very consistent spicy taste I can still taste the spice.

*The construction:
*The construction was great. The cigar held to two ashes.
*
The pick:

*I do not think this is a Cuban cigar. I am lost on the Marca of the cigar. I think it is a cigar rolled by Peppin because of the spice. I am almost wondering if you sent two 601s. But, i am not sure.

I give this cigar a 7 out of 10 rating. It was okay, but I would not buy it as a regular cigar.

Look forward to hearing your feedback.


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## wayner123 (Mar 29, 2007)

vanderburg said:


> Here is my review for cigar 3.
> 
> *Pre-light draw:
> *
> ...


Hey you hit this one right on the head. This one was a Tatuaje Reserva J21. It actually is rolled by Pepin but blended by Pete Johnson. I am very surprised that this one did not put you on your butt with nicotine. It has been aging for over 6 months, but I still find them strong nicotine wise. Especially after the 601 red (which I find hardly any nic levels in) messed you up. I even thought to PM you and let you know you may want to eat before smoking this one LOL.

I guess we do think alike, LOL. I'll review the last one tonight, and although I know it's cuban should be fun and hopefully a tasty review.


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## Tw3nty (Jan 25, 2008)

wayner123 said:


> Hey you hit this one right on the head. This one was a Tatuaje Reserva J21. It actually is rolled by Pepin but blended by Pete Johnson. I am very surprised that this one did not put you on your butt with nicotine. It has been aging for over 6 months, but I still find them strong nicotine wise. Especially after the 601 red (which I find hardly any nic levels in) messed you up. I even thought to PM you and let you know you may want to eat before smoking this one LOL.
> 
> I guess we do think alike, LOL. I'll review the last one tonight, and although I know it's cuban should be fun and hopefully a tasty review.


Cool, I did not think it was Cuban. I am not very knowledgeable about Nicotine flavors. I had breakfast before, but a while before. I smoke a lot of strong cigars (.e.g, dl7oo, camacho black). I am moving to a more medium bodied flavorful cigar though. I really had fun. Plus, we get to enjoy a Cuban and have a taste test. Is okay for me to check this one out and inspect it? I also want to post pictures for the grand Finale.


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## wayner123 (Mar 29, 2007)

vanderburg said:


> Cool, I did not think it was Cuban. I am not very knowledgeable about Nicotine flavors. I had breakfast before, but a while before. I smoke a lot of strong cigars (.e.g, dl7oo, camacho black). I am moving to a more medium bodied flavorful cigar though. I really had fun. Plus, we get to enjoy a Cuban and have a taste test. Is okay for me to check this one out and inspect it? I also want to post pictures for the grand Finale.


Hey,

That's cool with me. (I doubt you have smoked a cigar like this one before, so it should be interesting) Take some pics if you would like. I enjoyed your others of the Opus you reviewed. :ss

About the nicotine, I don't necessarily call it a "flavor". More of a gauge of strength. The Tatuaje brown labels are some of the strongest cigars I have ever smoked in terms of nicotine. The reserva's especially. I just found it weird that the 601 red, which I find weak, you found strong. And the Tatuaje Reserva J21, I normally must take it slow, and you didn't even comment on the strength. Almost makes me wonder if I got the smokes mixed up when I put them in the bag. And after reading your reviews, that may have been what really happened.

I may see if I can get you a 601 red and another Tat RJ21, with labels on, so you can compare again.


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## DennisP (May 13, 2007)

The Tat J21 is one of my favorite Pepin smokes. Funny that the 601 red is up there as well for one of my favs, although I agree it is lighter.


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## Bubba -NJ (Dec 6, 2005)

Good job guys , nice thread , interesting points of view . :tu


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## wayner123 (Mar 29, 2007)

Here is my review for cigar 4.

*Pre-light draw:
*
A airy dry tobacco taste. A hint of sugar but not much.

*Post-light taste: *

This was a nice cigar from the get go. The intial puffs were of a dry spice taste, similar to white pepper. About 2/3's to go and the spice totally faded and was replaced with a nice coffee caramel flavor. The smoke was still a bit dry feeling, but the taste was great. In the last third the smoke stopped it's dry feeling and the caramel sweetness was replaced by a bittersweet chocolate and coffee taste. in the background I could pick up a bit on a grassy note.

*The construction:
*The construction was flawless. It held it's ash very well and burned like a razor.
*
The pick:

*Well this is easy. It's a cuban.

I give this cigar a solid 8 out of 10 rating. It was a very good cigar, it reminded me of a ERDM Choix Supreme, but lacked the creaminess I usually get from them.

Thanks so much for the great experience and smokes. :ss


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## Tw3nty (Jan 25, 2008)

If any of you are still following the smaller, less volatile, more simplistic blind taste test, we are presenting our final cigars. Because we already know what the final cigars are, we are gong to review them with pictures and knowledge.

I also hope you have been enjoying the Vandertrade.

*Pre-light draw:

*The pre-light draw on this cigar had the taste of nuts and butter, faint but there. It was a lovely taste.

I also enjoyed the look of this cigar. It was really veiny. It was pretty.








Even the cap looked lovely. It was a pretty cigar.








*Post-light taste:

*The beginning of the cigar started a little nutty with hints of butter. The cigar seemed to be quite mild, but that was soon to change.









As the cigar developed, the taste changed dramatically. I could really taste the change. The cigar went through 4 changes. This is the second. Here the nuts and buttery flavors grew and became stronger.








After the first third of the cigar, the spice begins. The cigar started to develop a lovely spicy. It was like a spicy rum. The butter mixed with spice was nice.









The cigar continued to grow in spice. I could feel the spice on my tongue. It was nice to see the buttery taste dissipate and grow into a rich spice. Not an overwhelming spice, just the perfect amount.









The cigar was spicy and smooth till the end. Smoked it to the nub. it was a dream cigar. very , very nice.









*The construction:
*The construction was great. The cigar held two ashes.
Smoked cool all the way to the nub.* The pick:

*I am not sure what cigar this was. I know by the way Wayner presented the cigar that it is aged. I know it was good. I am gonna guess an aged romeo.

The cigar was a 10 out of 10. Really liked it.


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## Tw3nty (Jan 25, 2008)

wayner123 said:


> Here is my review for cigar 4.
> 
> *Pre-light draw:
> *
> ...


Nice review. The cigar was a SLR Regios 01. It had a little age on it, but more would do it better. I too really enjoyed this process. Anytime you want to trade again, let me know.


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## malinois1 (Feb 17, 2008)

Good job guys!!! I really enjoyed following this. :tu


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## wayner123 (Mar 29, 2007)

vanderburg said:


> *The pick:*
> 
> I am not sure what cigar this was. I know by the way Wayner presented the cigar that it is aged. I know it was good. I am gonna guess an aged romeo.
> 
> The cigar was a 10 out of 10. Really liked it.


Man not only did you hit this one on flavors, but you hit the marca on the head. I do not know exactly what it is other than RyJ. I got two of these from a merchant when they ran out of other singles I wanted. I find these really great smokes!

I'll try and find the vitola for you. Also, I am working on getting another Tat J21 and 601 red for you to try. Thanks again. And same to you, about ever wanting to trade again. Maybe make this a monthly thing or something?


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## DennisP (May 13, 2007)

Am I completely blind or is there no triple cap on that last one?


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## wayner123 (Mar 29, 2007)

DennisP said:


> Am I completely blind or is there no triple cap on that last one?


You may not be blind, but there is a triple cap from what I can tell:


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## DennisP (May 13, 2007)

wayner123 said:


> You may not be blind, but there is a triple cap from what I can tell:


I could somewhat see those lines, but this one was closer and I don't see anything.










It was your cigar and much easier to see in person than on pics, I'm sure you know. Wasn't sure if you had possibly removed it or something first.


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## Zoomschwortz (Jul 14, 2006)

Great thread guys:tu

Thanks
Ken


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## Tw3nty (Jan 25, 2008)

wayner123 said:


> Man not only did you hit this one on flavors, but you hit the marca on the head. I do not know exactly what it is other than RyJ. I got two of these from a merchant when they ran out of other singles I wanted. I find these really great smokes!
> 
> I'll try and find the vitola for you. Also, I am working on getting another Tat J21 and 601 red for you to try. Thanks again. And same to you, about ever wanting to trade again. Maybe make this a monthly thing or something?


If my newsahipmwnt comes in, we can try it next month. i'm game if you are. Same rules or new rules?


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## wayner123 (Mar 29, 2007)

vanderburg said:


> If my newsahipmwnt comes in, we can try it next month. i'm game if you are. Same rules or new rules?


Hey,

This would be cool to do again. And even just reviewing side by side blinded CC or not every month. I think it would be great to do.

Maybe the only rule I could see changing would be not to mention what the results are until the end. That way we would not know what was what at any point. And no changing. We have to call it what it is that review. Other than that, I would love to do this again.

We could do like a Nic only cigars, or Dominican only, etc. and guess the marca. That way we would not have to worry about procuring the CC's. But it's up to you.


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