# Help me convert my 10x12 shed into a man cave for the winter months.



## hawk45 (Aug 9, 2015)

Hi guys, 
If this should go somewhere else in the forum, feel free to move.

I have an empty 10x12 shed in the back yard. I'm thinking of converting it into a useful space to have a smoke and relax during the winter w/o having to freeze my butt off. I don't want to dump a ton of money into this, but at the same time would be nice to have an external space for doing some of my hobbies.
I've got some some framing up for counters, but now that it's cold, I think I need to add some insulation. I tend to get field mice in there every so often and do have traps set, but I wonder if going with standard rolled insulation would give the little buggers a place to build nests.

I also don't have electric so would either need to run a long extension cord for lights or have it wired up, or use candles at night. For heat I was thinking find a used wood burning stove or one of those dual gas heaters that go on the standard grill tanks.

There are two small vents near the roof on the front/back that I was thinking of putting small fans to push the smoke out and do some air exchange. Then I have one small window on the side.

Any ideas on the cheap would be most helpful.

Cheers,
Hawk


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## SeanTheEvans (Dec 13, 2013)

Sounds awesome, good luck with the project!

As far as heat goes, you should think about your air exchange. If you're gonna be blowing air out to vent smoke, you might want to look into heat sources that will heat objects or the room, not the air you'll be sending outside.

I was just joking the other day about hooking up my shed with an outlet. It would make for a fine-enough smoke room in a winter pinch, but likely just a pipe dream. Get yourself some hard-wired outlets out there if you're going to do this thing up, you'll appreciate it in the long-run, like when you want to plug in a tv or something


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## Chewbacca (Oct 10, 2015)

For the mice? Interview a few cats for the privileged position of 'head of man cave security'. I've found them to be the best at rodent control. Better than all the traps, poisons etc. Plus, they make great company. 

NB: don't expect the negotiations with the cat to be easy.


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## UBC03 (Nov 18, 2015)

They make foam insulation, it's a couple bucks more but they can't nest in it. Get some spray foam and do the cracks. It works wonders on drafts. For heat is personally go w a small electric heater. They're cheap, efficient, and much less of a chance of CO poisoning if you doze off. If you run a cord make sure you buy a thicker gauge and use a gfci. It'll save you issues in the long run. I just did a bunch of this stuff to my garage, so I don't freeze again this winter.


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## Bird-Dog (Oct 16, 2009)

Not sure how you plan to run the exhaust fans if you don't have power out there. So, it seems to me once you tackle that issue it would be easy to use a small electric space heater, have lights, etc...


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## Oldmso54 (Jul 31, 2010)

Being in Central Florida I can't help much on ideas but first, foremost and above all - whatever route you go: *BE SAFE!* So with that in mind I think I would forego the candles; get proper electric out there and vent appropriately.

PS - love to see pics of the project as it progresses if you do go for it.


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## CraigT78 (Apr 14, 2015)

So after reading your post I have the first initial thoughts.

1) Electric - you need more than an extension cord. See if your breaker box has a spare circuit and run a dedicated 20amp line out to the shed. This will allow you to run heat and fans without the risk of burning up an extension cord. 

2) Insulation - is this a wooden shed with studs? If so use bat insulation and possibly cover it with foam board or drywall. Mice will nest where ever they can get in, so sealing outside cracks and holes is your best prevention. 

3)exhaust - this is going to be tough, the more cfm your exhaust is the more air pulled out of the room, the more you have to heat. If you pull more air out than you can keep heated, your shed will be as cold as it is outside. You might be best installing a small pellet stove. As this is a shed, you won't need to pull smoke out like you would if it was in the house, so just enough to be comfortable would probably do it. If this is a 10x12x8 shed you have 960 cubic feet of air - a 150cfm fan will change the air in the room every 7 minutes. Install an exhaust fan in the ceiling, and a make up air vent behind the pellet stove and this should help knock the chill off the make up air. 

Good luck with the project - pics or it didn't happen!


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## Negatron (Jul 3, 2015)

Spray foam or closed-cell foam insulation is your best bet for miceproofing. it's more expensive, but really the only other option is a cat, and the foam spray doesn't need to be fed for the next 17 years.

how far from the nearest power source are you? If you go with an electric heater, those things can pull some SERIOUS energy, so I'd definitely not skimp on the extension cable. 

I'd say go woodburning and bring yourself a camping lantern for light if you need it. you simply cannot beat the warmth of a woodburning fire. I can't explain it, but the form of heat is so much more comforting. My old place had shit heating and we heated our room almost entirely by wood fire, it was awesome. As well, most space heaters need a considerable amount of time to get cranking and fill the room with heat, where a wood fire is usually big enough that it's just warm and that's that.

One con to woodburning: Get ready to be splitting a lot of logs or paying a small fortune for pre-cut bundles. It's sort of hard not to feel like a badass splitting logs while smoking a cigar, though.


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## hawk45 (Aug 9, 2015)

Great stuff guys. The shed is about 30 yards from the back of the house and and about 60 yds from the breaker box. I've got a buddy who does electric, but getting him over here is almost impossible since he's redoing his house he just moved into. I've already got the trade in work by helping him move (aka drinking beer while his sons do the heavy work), so just need him to find time to cover his end of the bargain. I agree, having full electric out there would be optimal. There is talk of a hot tub down the line, so maybe just run all that at the same time. Better to have it and not need it, than need it later and have to redo.

I'm pricing out insulation at the moment. It is a barn shape 10x12x8 with open studs at 24". I took out all the upper shelves out today just to get the space wide open and less places for dust and critters to lurk. I'm going to use foam board and foam spray on the floor and cover with ply/mdf board as I hear this is where most cold enters. I'm still pricing out footage of going foam board on walls/ceiling w/o covering OR rolled insulation covered with ply/mdf.

Now if I could just find that money tree..

Here is a pic after I got everything out of it.


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## UBC03 (Nov 18, 2015)

You could get the wire ,the conduit,and the boxes. Bury the conduit and the wire before the weather gets too bad. Don't forget to leave enough for your buddy to get to your fuse box. Put up your boxes, drill your holes in the studs and run the wire from box to box. Put in more boxes than you think you need. When your buddy gets time all he has to do is wire the plugs and connect it to your breaker box. It's easier to talk someone into giving up an hour of his time than a whole day. Plus it's easier to run wire pre insulation. Plus just use 3/4cpvc instead of metal conduit. It'll save you a few bucks. Hope this helps. Good luck.


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## Chewbacca (Oct 10, 2015)

Yeah, but cats also count as insulation, plus cool ornament and entertainment, as well as man cave security. 

Mine would keep me warm by draping itself around my neck (and drooling when it was drunk) and acting as a live stole, or by snoozing contentedly on my lap. Kept me lovely and warm. No need to explain the endless entertainment (except for the incessant yaowing outside the window with its buddies at 4am), and it would keep all the guests amused. Can be used as a great status tool as well. Ask any Bond villain.


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## hawk45 (Aug 9, 2015)

Ha!! Not sure how my dogs would receive the cat.. and the wife is allergic to them.
I usually keep the side window open all winter to keep it too cold for anything wanting to go inside. There isn't anything to make a home inside in there, so it's just as cold in there as outside.


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## Bird-Dog (Oct 16, 2009)

I once had a cat that liked to smoke cigars! Just thought I'd throw that out there... LOL

Anyway, mice are fairly tolerable. But, there are a few deterrents that might be worth building in... peppermint oil, mothballs, etc...


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## SeanTheEvans (Dec 13, 2013)

curmudgeonista said:


> I once had a cat that liked to smoke cigars! Just thought I'd throw that out there... LOL


I still do


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## LSUTigersFan (Sep 12, 2015)

Too tired to read, but best of luck with the project!!


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## Bcpballer64 (Oct 27, 2015)

If you do a wood burner it will be more than enough heat I would imagine, plus you can always use it to keep snacks hot or some chili if you end up with a TV for football days. 

I would install your exhaust fans opposite the heat source no matter what heat source you use as it will create the a it draw to move the heat around in the shed. 

If you go wood burning make sure the flue is nice and tight so that you are safe from CO.

You could always wire up the shed before you insulate and have it run to a junction box so at a later date you can bury conduit and line and not have to open up the walls again. 

I'm mobile so I can see your location but something to consider is on the ceiling to do something fold backed or do a real metalized paint to reflect your radiant heat (this will help in summer too, just other direction).

Just my .02 on the project. Look forward to pictures. 

Also, hedgeapples placed around your base boards will help deter mice and if you can find them somewhere they can be had for free from people that would otherwise throw them out.


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## Negatron (Jul 3, 2015)

Bcpballer64 said:


> Also, hedgeapples placed around your base boards will help deter mice and if you can find them somewhere they can be had for free from people that would otherwise throw them out.


Holy crap, I didn't know those were useful for _anything_. My grandparents old house had an entire side of their property lined in those trees. The only use they ever recieved was as children we would line them up in the road shoulder to shoulder to force cars to smash them. Such a strange fruit. Like an alien brain


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## NormH3 (Apr 20, 2015)

Sounds like a nice project. Is your buddy an electrician or just a guy that does electrical? It might matter depending on the electrical codes where you live. If you are going to run a 20 amp circuit, the smallest gauge Romex you can use is 12-2. Another note, unless you are in a rural area, you might want to call Miss Utility before you start digging. Could save you some headaches. An alternative to electric heat for now could be a small pellet stove or kerosene stove. You could use kerosene lamps for lighting.


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## elco69 (May 1, 2013)

@hawk45 just glanced over this and it looks like a cool and fun project. Didn't notice, but do you plan on sheet rocking the inside? We used to have a cabin out near Tahoe and we would only visit it 1-2 times a year and always had issues with mice. One time we skipped a trip and when we got there, holes in the base boards and around the plumbing under the sinks. We decided to just demo the paneling, re insulate and sheet rock. One of the neighbors saw us doing the work and came over to chat. Told him about our mouse problem and he had the same issue like 10 years prior. When he re did the walls, he put a 6" strip of sheet metal all around the base of the walls before he put the dry wall up. Then stuffed steel wool around the pipe entrances under the sinks. He said he has only had one mouse, we did this 6 or 7 years ago and haven't had one mouse, that we are aware of. I definitely don't think this was code by any means but, we didn't plan on selling it. My buddy who helped me do the work ended up buying it, so he knew it was there.


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## hawk45 (Aug 9, 2015)

Thanks Henry. I'm not sure what way I'm going to go with this, but didn't plan to use drywall just based on the possibility of moisture. It's going to be pretty rustic. I doubt a TV will go in there. Maybe a bluetooth speaker for music at best. Really just a place to stay warm and have a smoke and a few beers/bourbons by myself or with a few buddies.


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## elco69 (May 1, 2013)

hawk45 said:


> Thanks Henry. I'm not sure what way I'm going to go with this, but didn't plan to use drywall just based on the possibility of moisture. It's going to be pretty rustic. I doubt a TV will go in there. Maybe a bluetooth speaker for music at best. Really just a place to stay warm and have a smoke and a few beers/bourbons by myself or with a few buddies.


Gotcha, if that were me, I would use rigid foam core insulation or use a radiant barrier, seeming that you only need to control temps when you are in there. Stay way from any fiberglass product since your are not sheet rocking, don't want to breathe that stuff in or accidentally rub up against it and get all itchy. I think the radiant barrier would help with using a radiant heater, or whatever the are called, the ones that look like satellite dishes..lol

Radiant Barrier: Enerflex 4 ft. x 12 ft. Radiant Barrier Insulation Roll-115362 - The Home Depot

Easy to put up and take down.


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## Bird-Dog (Oct 16, 2009)

hawk45 said:


> Really just a place to stay warm and have a smoke and a few beers/bourbons by myself or with a few buddies.


Sure, John, sure. That's the way it always begins. But, you know deep down...


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## elco69 (May 1, 2013)

curmudgeonista said:


> Sure, John, sure. That's the way it always begins. But, you know deep down...
> 
> View attachment 55538
> 
> ...


All seriousness, that would still be fun to have something like that....lol


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## hawk45 (Aug 9, 2015)

elco69 said:


> Gotcha, if that were me, I would use rigid foam core insulation or use a radiant barrier, seeming that you only need to control temps when you are in there. Stay way from any fiberglass product since your are not sheet rocking, don't want to breathe that stuff in or accidentally rub up against it and get all itchy. I think the radiant barrier would help with using a radiant heater, or whatever the are called, the ones that look like satellite dishes..lol
> 
> Radiant Barrier: Enerflex 4 ft. x 12 ft. Radiant Barrier Insulation Roll-115362 - The Home Depot
> 
> Easy to put up and take down.


Yep, that is the thought. Just heat up when need to use it, not all the time.


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## hawk45 (Aug 9, 2015)

curmudgeonista said:


> Sure, John, sure. That's the way it always begins. But, you know deep down...
> 
> View attachment 55538
> 
> ...


Ha! I remember watching the originals as re-runs when I was a kid. He-man women haters club, love it!


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## elco69 (May 1, 2013)

Or you can just get everyone snuggies....lol


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## gtechva (Mar 9, 2014)

From what I remember of the inside of The Little Rascals hangout, I could do sweet things with a place like that. Looking forward to seeing yours when finished. Hmmmm...Ohio Herf, complete with an appearance by The Pretenders. Nice!


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## Chewbacca (Oct 10, 2015)

I'm still debating how to decorate my future man cave. 

The obvious option is the traditional style with lots of olde worlde wood panelling and big soft armchairs, sort of like those English gentlemen's clubs like White's or the Lansdowne in London. Very classy. I've been to enough of them to know. 

On the other hand, I'm tempted to go for 'dictator chic', which would be insanely tacky, but paradoxically, also kind of cool. I reckon I could photoshop myself into a few photos with Saddam, Muammar, Idi A, Jean-Bédel, Saparmurat Niyazov, Mobutu, Ike Turner, and General Aladeen. 

Naturally all would be 'autographed' by said dictators, giving me high praise. It's bound to be a heck of a lot cheaper to furnish than the olde worlde option, but I'd have to make certain sacrifices, such as no, ahem, female entertainment. That's limited by contract. Access to the man cave would be strictly controlled and the dress code would be 'military dictator' meaning military uniform with lots of 'tin'. The other dictator option would be civilian suit, or tracksuit, like Fidel or Hugo. 

The third option would be African shebeen, making it the cheapest option. It would be a lean-to made from a few sheets of timber and corrugated iron, with tables made from 50 gallon drums, plastic garden furniture, a black and white TV, electricity from a jenny, or storm lanterns when the gas runs out, with a wood stove for when it gets nippy.


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