# Are there not enough rich people with pull here to stop the FDA?



## TJB (Dec 10, 2012)

Lets face it folks a lot of us aren't rich in this industry. But on the same token a lot us are. Many on this very forum are medical doctors themselves and some must have colleagues with some pull in the FDA. Is there really not enough money or power on our side to offset the regulations that the FDA wants to propose? I do not pretend to know how politics work. But I know that often it comes down to money and who you know. I find it hard to believe that the FDA would being made up of MD's would allow cigars to be lobbed into such a broad category. 

I guess I am just venting but I can't believe the rate of the loss of freedom and the rate of change for the worse this country is taking. Between the top 10 percent of income earners paying 72% of all the taxes, 4 dollar gas here in the great MA, loss of health insurance and switching to higher deductibles and higher copays, subsidy websites not working (like here in MA, Oregon), IRS harassment of political enemies, DHS spying on all of us, etc. and the list goes on and on. Either we are all stupid and common sense and reason are lost, or we have crossed the ethical barriers and now hold justice and freedom hostage to power and money. I feel its too late to come back. I thought this was a political branch of the forum. If anything I said is inappropriate please moderators just delete this rant.


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## Bruck (Jan 8, 2013)

I hear ya, TJ. However:
1) "Rich People" aren't going to help bcs the laws don't apply to them - they're going to get what they want regardless.
2) This is the government we voted for. If voting patterns don't change drastically, this is what we're going to have from here on out.


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## Senor_Perfecto (Apr 2, 2014)

"top 10 percent of income earners paying 72% of all the taxes"

If you mean that's not enough, I agree with you. They pay the most because they are worth BY FAR the most $. If they made 10% more than the rest of us, I'd agree it's too much. But they make hundreds to thousands of times more than the rest. Therefore they're paying too little, at 72% or whatever it is.

Remember: The 1% do not "earn" money from working, by and large. They make their money on investments. Which is fine. But they're hardly being taxed on their cap gains (what is the top rate, 15%?), and not at all on inheritance -- the major sources of more/richer people. Most wealthy people were born into it. There are very, very few Bill Gateses out there.

Those of us who are working for a living are still pulling the major weight taxwise, while the rich "job creators" are reaping more rewards for our toil than any time in history. The rich have it better than ever. They ought to pay regular taxes on cap gains, and the inheritance tax has to return. All they're doing is creating -- then entrenching -- a new generation of wealthy people who feel entitled to everything but never worked for anything.

Also I agree with you on spying on Americans (although stared by the republicans in the wake of 9/11, both parties are now guilty -- where is the outrage?) and any partisan use of the IRS or other government forces. ACA just needs more time to work -- and for red states to open exchanges so their people can get insured and further drive down the cost for everyone (it works with SCALE).

But I don't blame the FDA for anything. Cigar smoking is bad for you, people don't want to smell it or be affected by it. It drives up healthcare costs when smokers get sick (though lumping us in with cigarette people is ludicrous). So there are taxes and laws. Ho hum. Nobody can or will stop you or me from lighting up a cigar when we want to. Just a question of where & how much it costs. Still seems pretty reasonable to me.


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## Wicked_Rhube (Jul 29, 2012)

I was just reading the proposal. It seems option b would exempt premium cigars. I was OK until I saw that premiums were over $10 a piece. Really? So a My Father #5 is premium but a #1 is on par with a Swisher sweet? It would be laughable if it were not so truly sad. Our parties are messed up. Conservatives don't conserve and liberals don't liberate. Gotta be a better way....


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## TMat (Jan 24, 2014)

This thread just got heavy


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## TCBSmokes (Sep 25, 2013)

TJB. As I mentioned on the other recent legislation thread, the way things look, the rich are not going to be much affected by the proposed FDA re-categorization of "premium" cigars because the threshold will be > $10+. If you think about it, it's as if some of the rich did already speak up...for themselves. T.


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## teedles915 (Jun 18, 2009)

Gentlemen just a quick reminder that this is a cigar forum, please keep the discussion in this area to cigar legislation not left vs right, and who should pay the most taxes.


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## USHOG (Dec 28, 2012)

It is pretty easy to stop them. You need many people and businesess to stand together and make a statement that they can not ignore. 

The problem is most people dont care until it is almost to late 

How many of you have signed a petition and sent letters to your represintatives over this matter?


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## TJB (Dec 10, 2012)

USHOG said:


> It is pretty easy to stop them. You need many people and businesess to stand together and make a statement that they can not ignore.
> 
> The problem is most people dont care until it is almost to late
> 
> How many of you have signed a petition and sent letters to your represintatives over this matter?


I sent mine. And the problem with this type of legislature is it never ends. It STARTS with only cigars over $10 being exempt. But who are they to determine what is "premium" or not? There is no logic involved with these things we are talking emotional ideals. There is no reason to regulate cigars. The research is controversial and the industry is much different than cigarettes. Cigars do not target children or teenagers either. The only reason I can see is they taxed the shit out of cigarettes so people have started to switch to cigars. The idea is the FDA does not want us smoking or even doing something that resembles it (e-cigs) because its against their utopian vision of society, and we don't have the lobbyists to sway them like all the other harmful crap out there they let fly. When people are still smoking cigars and they see its not enough then it will be only cigars over 20 exempt then none. We don't learn from our past.


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## Tobias Lutz (Feb 18, 2013)

USHOG said:


> How many of you have signed a petition and sent letters to your represintatives over this matter?


: raiseshand :

Come on folks- they make it too damn easy. There are plenty of form letters out there, you don't even have to write. Just sign, and mail. :nod:


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## meatcake (Mar 3, 2012)

Bump

Hope you guys all did this already. Don't let APATHY ruin this industry. Make your voice heard:

http://tinyurl.com/mueq3r8

Option 2 is the ONLY option. Talking points:

$10 price point, shouldn't be a price point period. FDA has never monitored anything based on price.

6lbs per 1000 units is ridiculous. This means ALL corona and lancero would need to be submitted to FDA for approval.

No samples is ridiculous. Without samples, no events, no sales reps. Tons of jobs lost.

No flavors. As long as the cigar meets guidelines of: Hand wrapped, long filler, tobacco wrapper, filler, binder. Flavoring shouldn't matter. It still meets guidelines of PREMIUM.


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## hawksmoor666 (Jul 2, 2014)

Rich people are above the law and they do as they please so they don't care.


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## dinoa2 (Feb 7, 2008)

I urge everyone who has not done so, to use the link posted by meatcake or other links and make a personal protest about the regulations and the $10 price line. I think a personal comment, not a canned one, would be more effective. You can read some of the comments and some are the same one, probably provided by some organization, but any comment should help. They will never kill the cigarette industry, in my opinion, because it would cripple ecomony and employment in certain areas but these regulations would seem to cripple the cigar industry and make smokes almost unaffordable. Think how many cigars you buy that are not $10. 

Get out the protest comments


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## JustinThyme (Jun 17, 2013)

Regardless of which side is which its all about political gain. The second thing on any politicians mind is what will keep them in office, the first is how much money they can pilfer from the current term.
No one spends a million + to campaign for a two year term worth less than $500K in both salary and benifits.


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## Mitch (Oct 2, 2009)

Damn lots of hate on the rich. How many of us, when in need of a job ask the homeless! I also don't think it's right to say they don't work for it. Anybody can start a company and go after the American Dream!


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## dinoa2 (Feb 7, 2008)

It seems I am on a one man band wagon , but I will throw another .o2 in here. I don't care about rich, poor, conservative, liberal, anarchist, or whatever. I just saw an article in Cigar Aficionado which said the FDA had received, 34,500 comments so far and the comment deadline has been extended to August. That figure seems pitiful to me. There must be more cigar smokers than that in this country. Get to the web site and tell the government to leave cigars alone. If not, then there will be a hell of a buy on cigars just before these regulations go into effect and your local B&M, internet sites and cigar lounge will be a thing of the past.


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## Mitch (Oct 2, 2009)

I doubt cigar shops are going anywhere. I remember in Kansas City they did a no smoking ban and the Outlaw worked around it in a few days. They then pushed and got them to change the rule to I think if being ok if 80% of sales being tobacco they can dmoke


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## CigerJeeper (Jun 16, 2014)

I've put in my comments to the FDA about it. not that i believe the FDA has shit to say about cigars... thats the ATF's responsibility... but this is the result of an over bearing gov that grown too big for its britches. in my opinion "premium" cigars are easy to describe, hand rolled with 100% tobacco. that pretty much it. Price, size, shape, wieght that all a bunch of garbage and doesn't change what it is.


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## Branzig (Jul 14, 2013)

I did my part and sent my comments in to the FDA, and I would hope that everyone else has too. 

Griping about it on a forum won't do anything, only signing petitions and contacting the correct offices will make a change.


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## dinoa2 (Feb 7, 2008)

thank u Brandon and Jason. I hope everyone else in Puff has sent in some comments. :mrgreen:


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## Skoallio (Dec 20, 2013)

Senor_Perfecto said:


> "top 10 percent of income earners paying 72% of all the taxes"
> 
> If you mean that's not enough, I agree with you. They pay the most because they are worth BY FAR the most $. If they made 10% more than the rest of us, I'd agree it's too much. But they make hundreds to thousands of times more than the rest. Therefore they're paying too little, at 72% or whatever it is.
> 
> ...


What about 50 cent, Dr Dre, Jay Z and all these rich rappers and basketball players who grew up dirt poor in the projects?


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