# Long Term Aging



## NCatron (Sep 7, 2005)

So here's an idea I've been toying with...

I want to be one of those "cool" dads someday, so I thought I could plan WAAAY ahead (I'm married but no kids yet) and do something really nice for my kids.

I was hit with the idea that I'd like to buy a box of Cubans, and put them away to age until my kid hits 18, then we could fire them up together. So realistically that means about 20 years of age. What are the logistics of this kind of aging? Is it possible for an "average Joe" to age a box or two for 20 years without f'ing it up?

If feasible, I'd like to hear some suggestions. What box of cigars would you like to age for 20 years? What kind of humidor (tupperware/cooler/cedar) and humidifier would you use?

Feel free to chime in with any thoughts.


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## justinphilly-cl (Sep 7, 2005)

not sure if i have any inof on helping you age these things.. But i could leave you my phone number and in 20 years i could be up for adoption.. Sure ill be 47, but think of all the $$$ you would save, not having to pay for any child support, or anything like that.. Oh, and I truly would think you were a "cool dad"..

great idea, wish my dad thought of it.. The only thing he had ready for me when i turned 18 was my eviction notice!!


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## RPB67 (Mar 26, 2005)

I do kinda what you are doing.

I like Cuban Cigars. I like Montes,Partagas and some Cohibas. If I buy a box of Montes I buy and extra for aging. The same with the others. I have boxes aging and buy the time my kids reach 20 or older they will have 20-25 years of age on them and all I paid for them is regular box price.

I also buy some cigars already aged and specialty limited editions. But you pay the price for those.

The best way is to do what you are doing.Buy them,sit on them and enjoy them.

Call me in 20 Years those cigars will be great and very rare.


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## clovis (Apr 14, 2004)

I'm interested to see what MO or others say with experience in this rea say...
I have not aged cigars for more than a couple of years...my advice is based only I what I read. If it was me:

1. buy a full cab and store the cab shut..if you buy a dress box, get an appropriate sized cab (don't want to much extra air in there if you can help it) Why? oxidation (via oxygen in the air) is what degrades cigars over time. In the short run (a year or so), oxygen can take off the edge a bit...in the long run (20 yrs) you run the risk of ending up with a flavorless cigars if you don't keep those suckers sealed up. When you are tempted to open teh cab and just look at 'em...don't do it...forget you have them.

2. humidity at 65%...if you must err, err on the side of dryer. Supposedly (again, based on reading)..storing smokes at 70 adn up for long periods of time can end up in overall loss of flavor in the long run.

3. Cigar oasis or something of the like might be more important in long term aging projects like this.

I'm interested to see what those with actual experience in this area have to say.


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## Nely (Nov 11, 2004)

I have never smoked a cigar with 20 years of age, and probably never will. I'm thinking that with all that time the cigars got to lose their flavors, and become mellow and not so great. Please some one correct me. Please don't get me wrong, it is a great idea, and I too would like to find out the type of smoke those 20 year old stogies will come out to be, specially with my grown child next to me. So pick up a box that you like and let's hope CS is still around to tell us about it. :u


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## gabebdog1 (Mar 9, 2005)

do a search next time has been asked already


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## Nely (Nov 11, 2004)

gabebdog1 said:


> do a search next time has been asked already


gabe, lets give the new guys a break.


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## MoTheMan (May 24, 2003)

A few insights:

Properly aged, a good premium Habano can turn into a real gem over many years.

Improperly stored, over many years the cigars will become very flat & lose their complexity. Sure, they may retain a lot of flavor, but they just won't be right.

For long term (decades) storage, I would recommend lower humidity and temperature over the recommended 70/70.

Personally, if I find a cigar that I like, I'll go ahead & buy two boxes. One to start on, and the second to keep sealed & stored. When I run out of the first box, I'll order another to replace it but keep that first box sealed. When will I plan to open it, who knows.

Havanaaddict (who's hanging out with me here at Land of Lincoln Herf) recommends the following: Find a retailer in one of the old European Capitals (London, Paris, Frankfurt) that still stores their cigars in cellars*. Place an order with them but tell them NOT to send it to you. Most established, reputable dealers will store boxes for their customers, for as long as that customer wants (of course one time customers may not get the same service as a repeat customer). Heck, if they can do that for you for 20 years (make sure to keep the receipt now), the embargo might be over by then and getting them shipped to you may be perfectly legal by then.

Just my :2 .

*I visited a wine broker in Paris back in January 2004. These wine dealers did not use any fancy cabinet storage for their wines, no, they merely put everything in the cellar (basement) which maintained a constant temp & humidity (both) in the low 50's year round.


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## NCatron (Sep 7, 2005)

MoTheMan said:


> A few insights:
> 
> Havanaaddict (who's hanging out with me here at Land of Lincoln Herf) recommends the following: Find a retailer in one of the old European Capitals (London, Paris, Frankfurt) that still stores their cigars in cellars*. Place an order with them but tell them NOT to send it to you. Most established, reputable dealers will store boxes for their customers, for as long as that customer wants (of course one time customers may not get the same service as a repeat customer). Heck, if they can do that for you for 20 years (make sure to keep the receipt now), the embargo might be over by then and getting them shipped to you may be perfectly legal by then.


Hmm, that's a damn good idea. Let someone else take care of the storage.

So Nely mentioned, and I've seen elsewhere, that cigars typically have a "peak" where the aging gives best results, but then further aging will actually result in decreased flavor. Would 20 years be too much? Would I be better off starting when they're 8, so that when 18 comes around the cigars would be 10 years old?


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## pnoon (Jun 8, 2005)

FWIW, here is an interesting reference.
http://www.cigarnexus.com/counsel/aging/


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## mosesbotbol (Sep 21, 2005)

MoTheMan said:


> For long term (decades) storage, I would recommend lower humidity and temperature over the recommended 70/70.
> 
> Personally, if I find a cigar that I like, I'll go ahead & buy two boxes. One to start on, and the second to keep sealed & stored. When I run out of the first box, I'll order another to replace it but keep that first box sealed. When will I plan to open it, who knows.


I agree, keep them on the drier side, I've had cigars stored that were 20+ years old and were fine. If you are going to age something for that long, age something you know tastes good and has a good draw. Nothing worse than a tight cigar you were saving for 20 years. Go for cabinents if you can. If you have room, try going for two boxes of Bolivar Belicosos vs. one box of Cohibas. I intend to buy a case of Premier Cru for year each of children are born, and when they graduate college, they'll have a good investment.


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## The Rev (Feb 26, 2005)

Another Gorilla did exactly the same thing for the birth of his child. There was some great advice there. I'd go with Mos advice, if you have international connections. Check what Min Ron Nee has to say about Ziplocs. I got that tip from from an older member.

If the idea of keeping them in the cab is for the cedar, even to the extent where you take them out of the dress box and change the container, you might just as well put them in a decent humi with Heartfelt beads in a cellar or constant temp environment. Buy two boxes and fill up a 50ct. Just puttinit out there.


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## NCatron (Sep 7, 2005)

Thanks for all the responses.

Re: the search, Yes, I did search for old threads, but didn't see anything that covered what I wanted. But after you pointed it out, I went back, and on the VERY last page of results, a thread that is 4 years old is relevant:

http://www.clubstogie.com/vb/showthread.php?t=851&highlight=birth

It seems like the consensus in that thread is that 20 years is a bit excessive. Has anyone smoked a 20 year-old that they felt is superior to something more like 5-10? I thought more years would make it more special, but if it's not gonna taste good, that would make it pretty un-special.


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## pyrotech (Sep 8, 2005)

I thought this might be of intrest to you, its a segment of one of MRN's question and answer sessions on Mitch's Cgars site. 

It deals with some of the better aging cigars. 

Its is qualified by this statement: 

I have chosen five each for you with brief comments.

1. Consistent. This is an absolute must!
2. Easily available in UK.
3. Concurs with general opinions. I sometimes have unique opinions which do not serve any useful purpose.

They are listed in order of quality regardless of size.

"Top five cigars (short term aging) :

1. Partagas Shorts in Cabinets : The Mount Everest of small cigars. Traditional old blend Partagas taste. Very good when new. Superb when one year old. A classic already when two years old. Aging potential unlimited. I am too old to care for that!

2. Bolivar Lonsdales : Best Bolivar in my opinion. Extremely complex but elegant flavours. Tastes very Bolivar but has nuttiness as a bonus. Very good when new. Fantastic when one year old. Another classic when two year old. Unfortunately peaks around five year old because presented in a dressed box.

3. Ramon Allones Small Club Coronas : Sweet complex nutty and earthy flavours Very good when new. Fabulous in one to two years. Peaks in five years. First class.

4. Le Hoyo de Dieux : A cigar with exceedingly complex flavours. No doubt made from the choosiest tobaccos. Extremely good already when new. Attains classic status when two years old. Peaks in around seven years.

5. Saint Luis Rey Londales : A Saint Luis Rey with extremely aromatic and an unique honey taste. Very good when new. Unfortunately peaks in around two years as the aromaticity and honey flavours fade away rather rapidly.

Top five cigars (Long term aging)

1. Partagas Lonsdales in Cabinets : The best Partagas without doubt. A class in its own. Made from the best tobaccos I belief. Already extremely good when eight year old. Peaks in twelve years. Peaks relatively shortly because of too many aromatic flavours which do not last. A dream to smoke.

2. Ramon Allones Specially Selected : Unquestionably the best Robustos. Surpasses the now discontinued Dunhill Cabinettas which is the closest runners-up. Earthy, nutty, decent tobacco taste blended with many other subtle flavours with perfection. Already unbelievably fantastic when ten years old. Peaks in fifteen years.

3. H. Upmann Magnum 46 : the best Upmann ever. Strong first class clean tobacco taste. Very Upmann. Very good at eight years. Peaks in fifteen years. Stunning classic Havana taste.

4. Sancho Panza Corona Gigantes : the fact that Sancho Panza have great aging potential is perhaps a best kept secret. The Corona Gigantes is the best. It has a very pleasant grassy flavour that can last for a long time. Getting better and better of course when its harshness is softened with age. Peaks in fifteen years. An absolutely classy elegant smoke.

5. Punch Super Selection No. 2 : The best Punch without a doubt. But needs extremely long term aging to reveal its true potential. Barely smokable when ten years old. Peaks in twenty to twenty five years.

The lack of a Cohiba on the list surprised me , but then this is not a definative, 

I think if you can catch that peak, it is possible to extend by dropping the temps and RH% further to "suspend" the qualities. 

Now Anybody got any 12y.o.party lonsdale cab's going cheap. ?


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## The Rev (Feb 26, 2005)

Awesome. Great post Pyrotech. I read it twice. Thanks.


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## NCatron (Sep 7, 2005)

Yeah, thanks Pyrotech, that's pretty much exactly what I was looking for.

Looks like I should wait a bit before I start putting them aside, it seems most peak before 20 years anyway.

I guess that's good in a way, as that will give me time to find out which cigar I think is worth aging.


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## coppertop (Dec 29, 2003)

pyrotech said:


> I thought this might be of intrest to you, its a segment of one of MRN's question and answer sessions on Mitch's Cgars site.
> 
> It deals with some of the better aging cigars.
> 
> ...


i'm surprised you left off the Party 8-9-8V. supposedly they age rather well according to MRN. i honestly don't have any personal knowledge of how they age. i bought mine because i enjoyed the ones i had had....and read what MRN said about them. and your list is based on your knowledge. maybe in a few yrs i'll know how those 898s and Lonsdales compare. i have both(Party 8-9-8V, Lonsdale) aging right now....along with a few other boxes.

IHT is doing the same thing for his son. But he smokes one a yr on his sons birthday. so in 13 more yrs they can share a well aged VRDA together. talk about getting a kick ass aged cigar as your first freaking stick. i hope to be there for that. I think you have a great idea. i don't however agree with letting someone else control how your cigars age. it's all about control.

good luck to you.


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## ToranoFan (Sep 30, 2005)

Most cigars peak in the 5-10 year peroid. I have tried Cubans aged 2-5 years, very powerful and complex but can benefit more with much longer aging.

The best cigars to age are BBF, Monte #2 and RASS for long term storage. But if your aging up to 20 years from what ive been told the cigar will be a totally different experience. Take BBF... a very powerful strong cigar, because it is so strong aging has great effect on it. In 20 years this cigar will not be as strong but will develope a very smooth taste with added complexity. From what ive heard these very cigars ive mentioned move into a whole other realm at this peak of time. But since taste is subjective you might like freshies, 1-2 year aged, 5 years or more, that my friend is up to you.

Hope this helps.


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## pyrotech (Sep 8, 2005)

Coppertop,

It's MRN's list, not mine, thats why I was surprised no Cohiba on it. 

I personally have only just started putting whole boxes away, and I was myself looking for what aged well, thats when I came accross this list.


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## Lamar (Dec 12, 1997)

The BBF is a great cigar but I don't know if it would hold together for 20 years...my guess is that after 10 years it would have peaked based upon the 9 year old BBF's that I have had. Could be just my tastes though.

For 20 year aging, I'd go with the Party Short in Cabs, you can't lose on that one. I'd also consider the Sublime, the Mag 50 and the SLR DC.

I'd go with 65% RH or less and I'd keep them at 65 degrees if at all possible.


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## Fredster (Jan 26, 2004)

Some of the best aged smokes I've had were R.A. C.G. 1994, Cohiba Esplendidos 1994, Partagas C-Hill Deluxe 1982, and Romeo C-Hill 1994. If you are going for 20 years I would grab a box of Partagas C-Hill's. Very full cigar that still was powerfull but very smoothe after 20 years. Monte #2's are some of the best aged cigars too, but I like the ones with 10 years a lot more than the few I've had with around 20. They seem to peak around 10.


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