# Cohiba "04 Sublime EL's... are these real? Big Pic Warning!



## accigar

I'm fairly confident of my source but for fun I thought I'd post these pics to see if you guys agree. Round 1 is before I remove the plastic from the box. Here are my Cohiba 2004 Edicion Limitada Sublime. A040223 is on the hologram on the far right side.












I hope everyone thinks this is fun, I know we get a lot of these. But if nothing else, a little cigar ****.


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## JCK

Looks legitimate to me. except for the habanos unicos d'esde 1492 sticker. Not familiar with that.. but everything else looks to be placed and stamped correctly.


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## Ermo

Sorry bro. 99% sure they are fake, the cuba hologram on the bottom right corner is a dead giveaway, unless you bought them on the island of cuba.

If you did buy these on the island then you still have a shot, if your "Source" has a brother that lives there or some crap like that they're fake.


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## Lost Sailor

Nope.


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## Tapewormboy

The box code/date doesn't look right to me.


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## accigar

I don't know if he has a brother there but he has a sh*t pile of Cubans that I have enjoyed in the past. He also gifted me this with my purchase


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## Lost Sailor

Look familiar?? :BS

http://auctions.yahoo.com/i:2004 Cohiba Edicion Limitada Sublimes:213174939
I hope you didn't actually buy these.


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## accigar

Lost Sailor said:


> Look familiar?? :BS
> 
> http://auctions.yahoo.com/i:2004 Cohiba Edicion Limitada Sublimes:213174939
> I hope you didn't actually buy these.


I didn't buy those. But it looks like what I biught, I didn't pay that price though. Thank god!

I guess I'll be busting one of these open to see if (or confirm) they're not real.


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## jimmy

i think i still have my empty box if you want to grab it from me. i'll check tonight just in case. i recently gave a bunch of boxes away. 
yours in the pics definitely don't look quite right. the date code stamp especially.
did you black light test?
jimmy


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## Ivory Tower

Never seen a box code stamped in that font. But what to I know?

Let's see the cigars.


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## accigar

jimmy said:


> i think i still have my empty box if you want to grab it from me. i'll check tonight just in case. i recently gave a bunch of boxes away.
> yours in the pics definitely don't look quite right. the date code stamp especially.
> did you black light test?
> jimmy


I'm buying a blacklight and magnifying glass tonight.


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## jimmy

accigar said:


> I'm buying a blacklight and magnifying glass tonight.


i got one if you don't want to waste the money. let me know and i can bring it to newark tomorrow.
jimmy


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## Blueface

Dude,
I have seen those before.
The hologram on the right and the other hologram seal on the edge are for boxes sold out of Cuba.
That means your source would have to have brought them in somehow.
If they did, they are legit.
If they didn't, fakes.
Open the box and let the sticks be the proof.
Post a picture of them.
Should be very consistent in color.
Slightly darker than most Cohibas.
Triple cap.
Lastly, very medium, wonderful smoke, very unlike traditional Cohibas.
Go ahead and open them so we can see.
I actually had a couple of boxes of other brands brought to me a while back and brought them to herfs for all to see and smoke them. About 7 or 8 of our gang had them and the darn things were legit but then again, I knew exactly how they got here and where they came from. May not be the same with yours.


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## NCRadioMan

If these were sold to me from a "trusted" source, I would _*never *_buy from them again! :2


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## montecristo#2

Do habanos come shrink-wrapped? I have never bought a box so I wouldn't know. But I have also never seen a box of habanos shrink-wrapped (maybe the vendor wrapped it?).


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## j6ppc

If I were to wager I'd say probably fake.


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## jimmy

sorry about my last post about the black light. i posted that thinking you were in newark, then realized you were down south.
sorry
jimmy


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## Ermo

Dude I would leave the shrink wrap on and return them, period.


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## lenguamor

Ermo said:


> Dude I would leave the shrink wrap on and return them, period.


I hate to be an optimist in the face of what seems to be pretty good circumstantial evidence, but isn't it possible they were bought in Cuba?


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## cfheater

how about a few pic's of the cigars?


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## mosesbotbol

:hn 

I just smoked a Sublime last night, and I still not impressed. Every six months or so I try another one hoping they would be worth the price, so even trying one if you haven’t had them before could be difficult to gage. Blueface is correct that they don’t taste like a regular Cohiba. I don’t find them that flavorful at all, probably due the ring gauge…

If paid anything short of $600, they are fake- unless someone stole them. The last boxes I had as Cuba domestic market cigars was in 2001, so I can’t recall the boxes, but none were shrink-wrapped for sure.

I would put the odds at 85% that you have fake cigars.


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## Bigga Petey

Must be epidemic.

klick


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## cigarflip

Looks fake. Haven't seen a LIN box code on the 04s. I've seen LLN but not LIN. Even the font is a dead giveaway. If I were you I will try to get my money back.


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## xibbumbero

Look under the latch and tell me where it's made. X


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## accigar

Here is one from '03 from the same source.


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## accigar

I put under a 60watt blacklight and couldn't see the seal (maybe because of the glare from the plastic).


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## Airborne RU

Does the 2003 version match the specs?

Does the vendor have an open box return policy? If yes I'd crack the box open and compare with the 2003. If no I'd try to return the box if you feel they are fake.


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## Sandman

mosesbotbol said:


> :hn
> 
> I just smoked a Sublime last night, and I still not impressed. Every six months or so I try another one hoping they would be worth the price, so even trying one if you haven't had them before could be difficult to gage. Blueface is correct that they don't taste like a regular Cohiba. I don't find them that flavorful at all, probably due the ring gauge&#8230;
> 
> If paid anything short of $600, they are fake- unless someone stole them. The last boxes I had as Cuba domestic market cigars was in 2001, so I can't recall the boxes, but none were shrink-wrapped for sure.
> 
> I would put the odds at 85% that you have fake cigars.


Mine are awesome. Like smoking a White Russian, with so many other flavors. Box code LLN DIC 04


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## jimmy

accigar said:


> I put under a 60watt blacklight and couldn't see the seal (maybe because of the glare from the plastic).


seals have always jumped out, almost 3D to me.
let us know how it goes trying to get a return.
jimmy


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## Andyman




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## Airborne RU

Andyman,

How much where those "Cohibas?"


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## zemekone

ive never seen LIN box code...


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## accigar

Airborne RU said:


> Andyman,
> 
> How much where those "Cohibas?"


$250... But it's hard to believe that someone went to these lenghts to create a superb counterfiet but stamped a non-existant box code. Its almost like spelling Coheba wrong.


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## Andyman

Airborne RU said:


> Andyman,
> 
> How much where those "Cohibas?"


have to admit those arn't mine and thats not me. I have been waiting a week to use that picture. This seemed like a decent oppertunity.


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## ToddziLLa

Andyman said:


> have to admit those arn't mine and thats not me. I have been waiting a week to use that picture. This seemed like a decent oppertunity.


That really is a great picture! :r :w


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## bpegler

accigar said:


> $250... But it's hard to believe that someone went to these lenghts to create a superb counterfiet but stamped a non-existant box code. Its almost like spelling Coheba wrong.


If it walks like a duck...

Get your money back, if you can...


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## Lost Sailor

accigar said:


> $250... But it's hard to believe that someone went to these lenghts to create a superb counterfiet but stamped a non-existant box code. Its almost like spelling Coheba wrong.


Believe it.They make a huge profit even if they sell them for $100.It's a big frickin' business...


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## jimmy

Lost Sailor said:


> Believe it.They make a huge profit even if they sell them for $100.It's a big frickin' business...


it really is big. i've known several people that buy the $100 boxes on purpose. just so they can have 'cubans' to give out when non-smokers want to try one....that way they don't have to part with any real ones.
jimmy


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## NCRadioMan

$250? That price should make the warning-alarm bells ring, loudly.


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## thschrminm

accigar said:


> ...hard to believe that someone went to these lenghts to create a superb counterfiet but stamped a non-existant box code. Its almost like spelling Coheba wrong.


Thank God there are good boards like this and others were you can come to for a guiding hand when in doubt... :w

The COUNTERFEITERS can get some of the details right some of the time but they rarely get them all right most of the times... :sl

Send the box back and refrain from buying from that vendor if possible....

The boxcode is not right.... LIN is not an Habanos stamp for a factory....

The typeface or style of the letters is similar to the stamps used in the 96-98 years but not THAT CLOSE... :tg

Some of the brothers said the same thing and I agree...


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## Ermo

accigar said:


> $250... But it's hard to believe that someone went to these lenghts to create a superb counterfiet but stamped a non-existant box code. Its almost like spelling Coheba wrong.


These guys probably don't have masters degrees in counterfeiting :r


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## JPH

The Punch tube looks exact 

You see that box from '98 in MRN (pg 362)...I'm guessing the bands have changed...on these...right?

Edit: Eric....that questions for you ...lol....jut wondering if all Churchill puch tubos is like the one pictured....or is that cause their older?


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## moki

accigar said:


> $250... But it's hard to believe that someone went to these lenghts to create a superb counterfiet but stamped a non-existant box code. Its almost like spelling Coheba wrong.


Say no more.... 100% FAKE. You cannot even get those cigars _in Cuba_ for *double* that price. The lengths they go to? See here: http://www.justfakes.com/

Fake, fake, fake. No if, ands, or buts about it. They are about as real as these:


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## ResIpsa

moki said:


> Say no more.... 100% FAKE. You cannot even get those cigars _in Cuba_ for *double* that price. The lengths they go to? See here: http://www.justfakes.com/
> 
> Fake, fake, fake. No if, ands, or buts about it. They are about as real as these:


everytime I see that site it give me the creeps. What an asshat. They seem to be doing business out of Canada, don't understand why the authorities have not shut his ass down yet.


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## Airborne RU

I had no idea that sites like that existed.

That counterfeit site and those boobs scare me.


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## accigar

On the upside, I did score a box of Anejo 48's at retail

and got to see some really big boobies :dr


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## mr.c

accigar said:


> On the upside, I did score a box of Anejo 48's at retail
> 
> and got to see some really big boobies :dr


:r pics damnit!


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## JPH

accigar said:


> On the upside, I did score a box of Anejo 48's at retail
> 
> and got to see some really big boobies :dr


They could still be damn good....maybe even cuban tobacco??...maybe.??...What are you gunna do....I'd prolly take em' back....but ya never know.


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## moki

JPH said:


> They could still be damn good....maybe even cuban tobacco??...maybe.??...What are you gunna do....I'd prolly take em' back....but ya never know.


Unfortunately, "Cuban tobacco" means nothing... it needs to be carefully planted, nurtured, primed, dried out, fermented, cured, etc., etc. It's the entire process that makes the tobacco good, not just because it's on an island due west of the Dominican Republic.


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## RGD

Airborne RU said:


> I had no idea that sites like that existed.
> 
> That counterfeit site and *those boobs scare me.*


:tpd: Those things scare me - I don't see how anyone could find those things the least bit stimulating.

Ron


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## OilMan

RGD said:


> :tpd: Those things scare me - I don't see how anyone could find those things the least bit stimulating.
> 
> Ron


Didnt do anything for me


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## JPH

moki said:


> Unfortunately, "Cuban tobacco" means nothing... it needs to be carefully planted, nurtured, primed, dried out, fermented, cured, etc., etc. It's the entire process that makes the tobacco good, not just because it's on an island due west of the Dominican Republic.


I know ..(I was implying that maybe it was grown...dried...ect..ect..in Cuba)
sorry for the confusion.


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## moki

JPH said:


> I know ..(I was implying that maybe it was grown...dried...ect..ect..in Cuba)
> sorry for the confusion.


No need to apologize... I just don't want him smoking rolled up Cuban newspaper


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## accigar

OK, my source, a stand up guy in my book, said he's certain of its authenticity but I could send it back for a refund. He added that I could take one out and smoke it before I send it back too. So I guess I get to inspect a little further. Should I smoke it or cut it open to inspect it?


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## JPH

accigar said:


> OK, my source, a stand up guy in my book, said he's certain of its authenticity but I could send it back for a refund. He added that I could take one out and smoke it before I send it back too. So I guess I get to inspect a little further. Should I smoke it or cut it open to inspect it?


I say smoke it.....If it's shitty at 1/4 way down...cut it open(If you know what your looking for...I wouldn't know what to look for.....errr... long filler at least i guess....lol)


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## accigar

I remember seeing a website that had two cigars split open, side by side. One cuban and one fake. There was also some description of what to look for. Anyone remember where it is.


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## JPH

smoke some at least.....I guess i'm a smoke whore....I'd smoke 1/2 of one than cut it if you need.


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## omowasu

moki said:


> Say no more.... 100% FAKE. You cannot even get those cigars _in Cuba_ for *double* that price. The lengths they go to? See here: http://www.justfakes.com/
> 
> Fake, fake, fake. No if, ands, or buts about it. They are about as real as these:


Not to threadjack, but anyone else see the *stretch marks* on those *balloons*? OUCH! :r

I would say to open the box, post a nice high res pic, and smoke one. Let us know how it goes. Even vendors can get counterfeit boxes, and not even know it.


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## Thurm15

accigar said:


> OK, my source, a stand up guy in my book, said he's certain of its authenticity but I could send it back for a refund. He added that I could take one out and smoke it before I send it back too. So I guess I get to inspect a little further. Should I smoke it or cut it open to inspect it?


My advice, Do not open the Box and try one. They are FAKE. Send em back for a refund. If he stands by that Box by saying they are authentic, then you have to wonder if he really is a "stand up guy".

May I ask if your source is from within the US?


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## moki

accigar said:


> I remember seeing a website that had two cigars split open, side by side. One cuban and one fake. There was also some description of what to look for. Anyone remember where it is.


That would be me. Go here, and scroll down, then click on one of the pictures for details:

http://www.vitolas.net/thumbnails.php?album=19

...and return the cigars, get your money back.


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## accigar

I've opened the box and here are the pics. The lengths and Ring gauge are correct and it has the "farm" smell. I have smoked this cigar from the same source, not the same box, and I loved it. But I starting to wonder if I've ever smoked a real cuban.


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## moki

accigar, I'm not trying to be a jerk about this, but I don't know how else to say it. These cigars are fake. The packaging is not right, the lack of mark showing up under a blacklight is a huge tip-off, and the price is less than half _what it would cost to buy these cigars in Cuba_.

They are fake, it doesn't matter how "stand up" the guy you got them from is. He may or may not be aware that these cigars are fake, but they are.

I want you to look carefully at this picture... notice the size of the "Sublimes" typeface? Notice that the "S" in "Sublimes" falls almost in between the "o" and "h" in Cohiba? Now look at the box you have.

Do you mind if I use the pictures for my fake Cuban cigars gallery?


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## poker

NCRadioMan said:


> If these were sold to me from a "trusted" source, I would _*never *_buy from them again! :2


Agreed.:tpd:


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## OP8

I'd out the source.:sb 
screw him. he screwed you.


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## pnoon

OP8 said:


> I'd out the source.:sb
> screw him. he screwed you.


Not a good idea here on CS.
I understand and agree with the sentiment but it is not allowed in the public forum.


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## accigar

I truely think he believes these are real. I'm sending them back and he's going to give me a refund with no hassle at all. Now I'm on the hunt again!


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## GOAT LOCKER

accigar said:


> I truely think he believes these are real. I'm sending them back and he's going to give me a refund with no hassle at all. Now I'm on the hunt again!


He might not know, hard to believe but possible. I think it's safe to say that if this guy has been your only source of Cuban Cigars, then you have never tried a genuine Cuban Cigar. I would never do bussiness with this guy again. I must say that you have taken this better than some in the past. It's always hard to accept that you have been taken, and the scammers know this and play it against you. Good luck in "the hunt"!


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## accigar

GOAT LOCKER said:


> He might not know, hard to believe but possible. I think it's safe to say that if this guy has been your only source of Cuban Cigars, then you have never tried a genuine Cuban Cigar. I would never do bussiness with this guy again. I must say that you have taken this better than some in the past. It's always hard to accept that you have been taken, and the scammers know this and play it against you. Good luck in "the hunt"!


Thanks for the compliment. It's only money. No sense getting bent out of shape. Anyway, he's going to do a refund and I have provided some great pics for the counterfeit photo gallery.


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## grinch

Moki,

You have one keen eye! Thanks for pointing that out with the 'S'. It truly doesn't line up right, and is larger than it should be. It's funny that some of this stuff just stares you in the face, but you don't notice until someone shows you. My biggest problem with this was the fact that the guy selling believes that he can procure the MOST popular brand in the world for HALF price!?

Andy,

Sorry that you had to go through this process. It helps the rest of us, however, and we can only learn from it.


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## accigar

This forum is a great resource for us newbies (if you will) to learn and grow wiser (which I have done). Here are some pics of Cohiba Piramides Edicion Limitada 2006 (3 pack) from the same source.


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## accigar

I smoked about 3/4 of an inch on this one and got called away. It was a perfect opportunity to dissect it. I don't really know what to look for but there were big full leaves in it.


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## JCK

how did it taste?


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## moki

accigar said:


> I smoked about 3/4 of an inch on this one and got called away. It was a perfect opportunity to dissect it. I don't really know what to look for but there were big full leaves in it.


Looks like they used long filler with these fakes. It happens.


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## bonggoy

Do they even come in boxes of 3? I gonna know who this source is. This is really funny


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## moki

accigar said:


> This forum is a great resource for us newbies (if you will) to learn and grow wiser (which I have done). Here are some pics of Cohiba Piramides Edicion Limitada 2006 (3 pack) from the same source.


These are also fake. The correct packaging should look like this:


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## NCRadioMan

Can't say that I've seen the three packs and I thought they are only available in boxes of ten, as Moki posted.

Dude, drop that "source"! Your getting hosed!


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## moki

NCRadioMan said:


> Can't say that I've seen the three packs and I thought they are only available in boxes of ten, as Moki posted.
> 
> Dude, drop that "source"! Your getting hosed!


To date, I'm not aware of _any_ ELs from Cuba that come in cardboard packaging.

I agree, return anything and everything you obtained from this "source," and if you know anyone else who is using them, advise them to do likewise.

I find it very hard to believe that they are not aware that they are bending you (and others) over. Obviously be diplomatic until you obtain your refunds, but after that... f' 'em.


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## Ermo

:r They only come in boxes of 10!!!


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## accigar

NCRadioMan said:


> Can't say that I've seen the three packs and I thought they are only available in boxes of ten, as Moki posted.
> 
> Dude, drop that "source"! Your getting hosed!


He'd take them back for sure and I won't be getting any more, but honestly, I love'em. They smoke and taste great.


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## Blueface

accigar said:


> They smoke and taste great.


I gotta tell you, I got three of these packs through my brother in law up north a month or two ago and we smoked them with the South Florida crew and they were great. His source would not disclose to us where they got them so I was obviously skeptical at first but they turned out to be the best Cohibas I have ever had. Impressively made and burned with delight.

I then ordered the 10 ct box from my regular trusted vendor and frankly, can't tell the darn difference.


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## montecristo#2

accigar said:


> They smoke and taste great.


This is all that matters as long as you aren't over-paying for the cigars, know what you are smoking is probably not legit and don't try to give them out as though they are real.

From the sublimes I have seen, the wrapper is much darker than that, almost completely black.

Nice looking fakes none the less.


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## accigar

montecristo#2 said:


> know what you are smoking is probably not legit and don't try to give them out as though they are real.


But I might smoke them in front of my friends as though they were real


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## moki

Blueface said:


> I gotta tell you, I got three of these packs through my brother in law up north a month or two ago and we smoked them with the South Florida crew and they were great. His source would not disclose to us where they got them so I was obviously skeptical at first but they turned out to be the best Cohibas I have ever had. Impressively made and burned with delight.
> 
> I then ordered the 10 ct box from my regular trusted vendor and frankly, can't tell the darn difference.


Now that's scary.  But if you couldn't tell the difference between the fakes and the real thing, save yourself some money and buy the fakes.


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## Blueface

moki said:


> Now that's scary.  But if you couldn't tell the difference between the fakes and the real thing, save yourself some money and buy the fakes.


Yup.
Sure can.
Just not sure on the fakes part. May have been or not.
As I mentioned, I was skeptical myself when contacted for them but since no one had them yet, I figured why not? I am daring.

Will ask a few experienced BOTLs to chime in.
If I recall, in addition to me, Ron1yy, ALTHARP, and Made in Dade, and my 70 yr old dad who has smoked Cubans for 55 yrs, all had one our of the three pack.
Then, ATLHARP, Made in Dade, Harryculo and Madurofan, along with my dad and me, all had one out of the box of 10.
Let them chime in

BTW, the three packs did not come cheap. They came priced by the piece about the same as the by the piece out of the box of 10 so there was no savings.

Now that I have the box of 10's, would love to get my hands on some more of those three packs to have them side by side and light them together but my brother in law says there are no more. Anyone care to contribute? Would love to do a side by side rather than first one and then the other weeks later.

I am also frankly impressed by the dissection. That is a perfect cigar that was just cut up. Doesn't look very much different than the pictured box of 10's. Also, what a beautiful sheer wrapper used on this supposed fake. Amazing that someone would invest the money in those beautiful boxes and use quality filler and binder. On top of that, use such a sheer wrapper.


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## moki

Blueface said:


> Yup.
> Sure can.
> Just not sure on the fakes part. May have been or not.
> As I mentioned, I was skeptical myself when contacted for them but since no one had them yet, I figured why not? I am daring.
> 
> Will ask a few experienced BOTLs to chime in.
> If I recall, in addition to me, Ron1yy, ALTHARP, and Made in Dade, and my 70 yr old dad who has smoked Cubans for 55 yrs, all had one our of the three pack.
> Then, ATLHARP, Made in Dade, Harryculo and Madurofan, along with my dad and me, all had one out of the box of 10.
> Let them chime in
> 
> BTW, the three packs did not come cheap. They came priced by the piece about the same as the by the piece out of the box of 10 so there was no savings.
> 
> Now that I have the box of 10's, would love to get my hands on some more of those three packs to have them side by side and light them together but my brother in law says there are no more. Anyone care to contribute? Would love to do a side by side rather than first one and then the other weeks later.
> 
> I am also frankly impressed by the dissection. That is a perfect cigar that was just cut up. Doesn't look very much different than the pictured box of 10's. Also, what a beautiful sheer wrapper used on this supposed fake. Amazing that someone would invest the money in those beautiful boxes and use quality filler and binder. On top of that, use such a sheer wrapper.


Well, okay... but until I see any proof from Habanos SA that they have released Cohiba 2006 ELs in cardboard packaging, to me, they are fake. I've yet to see _any_ ELs that are in cardboard packaging, and I've yet to see any literature from Habanos SA indicating that this is an official release.

I also have yet to see these cigars in a cardboard 3-pack available on any of dozens of reliable sources. So, they are fake until proven otherwise.


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## Lost Sailor

accigar said:


> He'd take them back for sure and I won't be getting any more, but honestly, I love'em. They smoke and taste great.


This is what I don't get.You know they're fake....you've paid good money for fake cigars,but since you like 'em,you figure "what the hell...no one get's hurt".But all you're doing is keeping these dickheads in business.They make a huge profit even if they sell their shit for a fraction of what the real deal is supposed to cost.Smoke 'em if you want,but don't try to pretend you're smoking the real thing in front of your buddies...imo,that's :BS ! Gotta show off,eh? These assholes are screwing a lot of people that don't know any better.Why help them along??

:sl


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## accigar

Lost Sailor said:


> This is what I don't get.You know they're fake....you've paid good money for fake cigars,but since you like 'em,you figure "what the hell...no one get's hurt".But all you're doing is keeping these dickheads in business.They make a huge profit even if they sell their shit for a fraction of what the real deal is supposed to cost.Smoke 'em if you want,but don't try to pretend you're smoking the real thing in front of your buddies...imo,that's :BS ! Gotta show off,eh? These assholes are screwing a lot of people that don't know any better.Why help them along??
> 
> :sl


 Just think of all the struggling Cubans we're helping provide for (insert laugh here). We're really doing more than any charity (insert obvious laugh here too).


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## madurofan

Never seen anything weird come out of Cuba.


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## luckybandit

searched the web could not find a lin 2004 box code anywhere!


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## luckybandit

great fake primer

http://www.cigarnexus.com/counsel/counterfeit/


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## moki

madurofan said:


> Never seen anything weird come out of Cuba.


Sure, there are irregularities out of Cuba, but this isn't one of them. Entirely aberrant packaging in cardboard boxes for EL cigars... no, these are fake.

They may be cigars made from Cuban tobacco (though probably not), and they may have long filler, and they may even be pretty good cigars. However, they are as fake as a $3 bill, and should be treated as such.


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## xibbumbero

Once again,accigar,look under the latch on the Sublimes and tell me where the latch was made. It's stamped on the latch. X:w


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## accigar

xibbumbero said:


> Once again,accigar,look under the latch on the Sublimes and tell me where the latch was made. It's stamped on the latch. X:w


They've been sent back, I wasn't sure where to look (I just looked on the box, under the latch).


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## 4WheelVFR

My two boxes had latches made in Germany. I hope that's a good thing.


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## Puffy69

price and packaging is a dead give away..iknow you want them to be real and they have the barn yard smell but el's are highly faked cigars. they could very well be cuban cigars but not the blend they used for cohiba sublimes..


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## accigar

xibbumbero said:


> Once again,accigar,look under the latch on the Sublimes and tell me where the latch was made. It's stamped on the latch. X:w


I asked my source. He said it says "waldes spain" under the latch.


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## dayplanner

accigar said:


> I asked my source. He said it says "waldes spain" under the latch.


You mean like this? If so, you've got a problem. This macro shot of a clasp comes from a very nice specimen of counterfeit Cohiba Espléndidos.

I'm looking forward to examining the Piramides specimens. 

Wilkey


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## taltos

Wilkey, what was the end result of the clasps coming from Italy vs Germany? Thanks, Paul


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## j6ppc

taltos said:


> Wilkey, what was the end result of the clasps coming from Italy vs Germany? Thanks, Paul


If memory serves Germany=good anything else=bad


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## Gargamel

Not to beat a dead horse but I can assure those are fake because I ran into them in 2004. I'll dig up the post if I can find it. The LIN box code was on all of them as well. A guy showed up at a cigar shop my buddy worked at and gave him a card and told him to call. Later that day he called me to tell me he had grabbed a box of Cohiba Piramides and asked me If I wanted in. I had just recently started smoking Havanas and was ignorant to the black market. When I got home I noticed that they had a 2004 EL band instead of a 2001. I Promptly told my buddy who was in disbelief. I explained how Cohiba did not release Piramide ELs in 04. He would still not listen...very frustrating. 

Funny thing is when I cracked them open they were all long filler. The cigars themselves were made impeccably. I do remember with certainty the LIN box code. The box also had the holograms. These guys are pros. They have everything. My crazy friend who was in denial continued to do business with this guy. I saw a box of Siglo VI's, a box of Partagas 898's, and a box or Trinidad Robustos Extra. These cigars will easily pass as legitimate to any untrained eye. I'm sure they make a killing selling to bars and other various institutions as well as the Caribbean internet cigar market.

I got a good laugh one day when my buddy pulled out his Trinidad RE and it canoed about 2 inches down the cigar. Funny as hell. The look in his eye was priceless. He knew but he just couldn't come to terms with it. Hilarious watching him battle that canoe while I sat back with one of my little cheap Dip 4's.

The experience sent me on a research spin. I went nuts over the next 2 weeks and learned everything I could about both real and fake Havanas. It was a great experience and led me to meet some great people later on down the road.


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## dayplanner

taltos said:


> Wilkey, what was the end result of the clasps coming from Italy vs Germany? Thanks, Paul


Taltos,

The "official" line from Schmale (the German manufacturer of (brooches) clasps and hinges) is that _only_ their hardware is supplied on authentic Habanos production. The experience from the field suggests this is not entirely accurate. I have a box from several years ago that has the German brooch.

In my limited experience, either German or Italian hardware is found on authentic production although Italian hardware has not been seen on recent production (as far as I have seen). I have never seen Spanish hardware on an authentic box.

The "LIN" factory code is quite popoular with counterfeiters. Here is the bottom of the same box of Espléndidos.

Wilkey


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## taltos

Thanks for the response, I have only seen German hardware on the few boxes that I have obtained but remembered the thread discussing this on the other board. Paul


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## txdyna65

This is what I have on mine, tried to find a pic like this on CS and couldnt so I thought Id post it.


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## taltos

That's the one who is supposed to have an exclusive with the Cuban Government. Paul


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## Big T

Very informative post for all of us new folks.

Thank you all for sharing.

T


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## dayplanner

3x5card said:


> Taltos,
> 
> The "official" line from Schmale (the German manufacturer of (brooches) clasps and hinges) is that _only_ their hardware is supplied on authentic Habanos production. The experience from the field suggests this is not entirely accurate. I have a box from several years ago that has the *Italian* brooch.
> 
> In my limited experience, either German or Italian hardware is found on authentic production although Italian hardware has not been seen on recent production (as far as I have seen). I have never seen Spanish hardware on an authentic box.
> 
> The "LIN" factory code is quite popoular with counterfeiters. Here is the bottom of the same box of Espléndidos.
> 
> Wilkey


I meant to say "Italian" in the original post where I quoted. Here is the Italian brooch for completeness.

Wilkey


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