# Shilala Beads



## gwc4sc (Jan 11, 2008)

I know there have been a few reviews for these already but mine is way too cool not share. I just want to say that these f-ing beads are the best thing since sliced bread. For the past few months it has been hotter than hell out here so the A/C has been runnin almost all day. With the house around 77-78* the vino stayed solid at 69* and 65% humidity. It has been cooling down as of late and with the A/C off the house is hanging around 80-81* which brings the temp in the vino up which makes the motor kick on more often and the humidity drop. Anyways for a couple days the humidity dropped down to 60-61% most of the day until it cools down and then it climbs back up to 64%. I dont know the physics of these liitle buggers but after 2 days of doing the above mentioned flucuation the beads got dialed in to the temp and motor routine and have been rock solid at 65% ever since. I am guessing they adapted to the environment all by themselves. AMAZING!!

I just wanted to share this with those of you wanting to go the bead route. Hopefully Scott can chime in and explain *exactly* how these things work.


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## shilala (Feb 1, 2008)

Thanks for the props, Gary. :tu
I'd explain exactly how they work, but everyone would be so bored that they'd throw themselves off a roof.
The simple explanation is that they work on the principle of equilibrium.
The beads want to be equal with their surroundings, so they give off or gather up water to get happy.
The reason they can do that is because of their construction. Stick with me, this is cool...
The beads are full of pores and tunnels. They are laboratory made. The process causes the beads to have gazillions of tiny holes that are exactly 4 angstroms wide. (That's incredibly super small.)
The walls of said tunnels are EXACTLY one molecule thick.
Those molecules have an electrical charge called covalence. Each molecule has an affinity to attach itself to water.

So now, what you have in a pile of beads are thousands upon thousands of miles of tiny tunnels that act like water vacuums. They want water BAD.

The beads suck water from the air until the force of their desire equals the force that the air uses to hold onto water. When the air and the beads are even, that point is called "equilibrium".

There are lots of products that do the same thing. They are generally called dessicants.
Despite what you may have heard, ANY dessicant can be used to control humidity in a controlled environment. It's just that some work better at different RH ranges. 

HCM beads are special in that they have almost equal affinity at 65%RH. That means they can give off water at the same speed as they can take it up at 65%RH.
I found that out by doing months and months of tests.
The beads that most everyone uses are made of silica gel (the same as my HCS beads).
They find their push-pull balance point at around 45%RH. As the RH gets higher, they become more water laden and neither give off or take in water as fast as they do at 45%RH.
To exasperate that problem, they are treated with a type of denatured alcohol that further fills the beads, leaving far fewer of their tunnels available to gather or disperse water.
The reason HCS and HCM beads work so much faster are different.
HCS beads (my silica gel product) work better because they don't have any denatured alcohol in them. That's it. No magic. The lack of the additive allows a far greater amount of tunnels available to work with water, so they work a minimum of 438% better than any treated bead product. It also allows them to hold a LOT more water. Somewhere around 22% of their weight at 65%.
That's a major bonus because with all that water available, they almost never need to have water added. In reasonable conditions, they may never need to have water removed or added. If they do, the process is very simple.

HCM beads work so well because they peak at the right range for what we do. That's not entirely correct. At 65%, they want to give off water around 800% faster than any other bead product. They want to gather water at an even greater rate. That rate is so incredible that I couldn't really compare it to anything else, but it's far more than 800% faster than any other medium I tested against.

A couple pros for HCM beads are that they do not degrade at any appreciable rate. Left static, they never degrade. Even if you pour water on them, they are so strong (because of the molecular design) that they do not crack or explode like HCS beads or other bead products.
They do not gather goo from the air like other beads because the pores are too small to grab stink molecules and let them in. Therefore their effectiveness stays pat and does not diminish like HCS and the other beads.
They can be set at ANY RH%age. They work best at between 58% and 72%, which is a statement that is very misleading because a weighted average changes everything, but for our intents and purposes, that's a perfect watered-down statement.

The biggest con so far as HCM beads are concerned is that they require a person to have a decent calibratible hygrometer that's been salt tested very recently, and they need to be watched and maintained to some degree. (In most applications, that degree is "never", but in some instances it can be every few months. In severe instances, although none have been reported, it could be more often. I can imagine such instances but haven't found any yet.)
They're also very small and, as such, they are tough to keep in a container of any sort and tend to "leak" fines out of the fabric I use if they get moved around a lot. 

Being as I don't want to be responsible for anyone's untimely demise, I'll shut up now.
Believe it or not, this really was the very simplified version. I could go on forever.
If anyone has any questions, I'll be happy to answer them. :tu
I can't promise I can relay information that took me months to gather in 500 words or less, but I'll do the best I can. :r


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## Volt (Jan 6, 2008)

I concur - they are excellant beads.


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## massphatness (Jan 4, 2008)

Plus Shilala's beads, though small, are so damn sexy.


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## shvictor (May 14, 2008)

Volt said:


> I concur - they are excellant beads.


Now thats an answer I can understand...:tu

but in all seriousness I have had Shilala beads in my vino now for about 2-3 months and they have held a steady 65-67% rh. The best part is I never have to do anything to them.


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## shilala (Feb 1, 2008)

shvictor said:


> The best part is I never have to do anything to them.


I said that way up there ^ already. 
(I just used lots more words.)


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## ggainey (Sep 3, 2007)

I have them in my vino and love them. Someone said in another post that they were boring because you don't have to do anything to them, that is a fair statement.:tu


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## sailchaser (Jun 16, 2007)

Every humi and cooler in the house has them and they are great:tu:tu


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## Av8tor152d (May 11, 2008)

I hate Scotts beads they make taking care of the humidity in the vino SOOOOO boring.....even survived a trip from NY to AL. and the RH% in the vino stayed between 60-65 the whole trip....SO again I say if you are wanting to be totally bored with RH% care then definatly use Scott beads


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## shvictor (May 14, 2008)

shilala said:


> I said that way up there ^ already.
> (I just used lots more words.)


Yeah but nobody finished reading your post...


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## shilala (Feb 1, 2008)

shvictor said:


> Yeah but nobody finished reading your post...


I know. 
The beads are definately boring. So are my rants about them.


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## fury165 (Jul 8, 2008)

Great post Scott, how does one go about purchasing some of your famous beads?


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## shvictor (May 14, 2008)

You gotta know a guy, who knows a guy who's got the password and the secret knock. heck just PM him


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## Av8tor152d (May 11, 2008)

fury165 said:


> Great post Scott, how does one go about purchasing some of your famous beads?


If anyone told you they would have to kill you....

And they are watching!!

As said above just shoot Scott a PM.


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## shilala (Feb 1, 2008)

fury165 said:


> Great post Scott, how does one go about purchasing some of your famous beads?


 Yup. Those guys are right. Just shoot me a pm.


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## BlazinOrange (Nov 22, 2007)

Well it sure sounds like you know what your talking about Scott. I am glad I purchased off you. :tu


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## shvictor (May 14, 2008)

BlazinOrange said:


> Well it sure sounds like you know what your talking about Scott. I am glad I purchased off you. :tu


You understood that? Wow RG coming your way


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## BlazinOrange (Nov 22, 2007)

Haha, how could you not understand that he used such simple terms....


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## shvictor (May 14, 2008)

BlazinOrange said:


> Haha, how could you not understand that he used such simple terms....


Naw I just didn't read it...:r. That Scott does know what he's talking about though. I just have to bust his chops a little bit.


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## Brule (Aug 28, 2008)

shilala said:


> I know.
> The beads are definately boring. So are my rants about them.


Please keep up with the rants! I may be a noob here but so far I find your posts thoroughly enjoyable. :tu


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## aracos (Mar 17, 2008)

Scotts Beads are amazing... 

I used them in the desktop and they were great... 
I have them in my Antietam now and wow... 

The temps in the Antietam have ranged from 70-81 over the summer. The beads have kept the rh between 64-67. When I open it for whatever reason, once it is closed it jumps right back to that 64-67 range in no time... 

Thanks Scott, great stuff...


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## BlackDog (May 19, 2006)

I ordered a pound of beads from Scott yesterday. I'm looking forward to using them in my cooler and humi. Even though it will be boring.


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## Hammerhead (Sep 7, 2005)

Scott, you have a website we can order from? I've been using Viper's beads with great success for two years, now, but I'd like to experiment with something else.

Also, can you discuss or point to how one fixes the RH setpoint? I'm a 65% kinda guy myself.


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## shilala (Feb 1, 2008)

No website, it's not time for one yet. Plus I haven't had time to build it. 
Dave's beads work great, I'm sure you've had good luck with them, so has everyone else. :tu
If you want to experiment, drop me a pm and we can talk.

On how to change the setpoint, these words are straight from the instruction/care sheet that I send along with all my beads...

*"If the RH%age is lower than you like&#8230;*
_*Place a small distilled water-soaked sponge in a pan or dish and sit it in your humidor overnight. Take the dish and sponge out in the morning and then wait to check your RH%age in the afternoon.*_
_*If it's still low, simply put the sponge back in the humidor, leave it overnight, remove it in the morning, check in the afternoon, and repeat the process as necessary.*_
_*If you wish to hasten the process, simply use more wet sponges in more areas of your humidor.*_
_*While you are doing this, be sure to realize that it takes a good amount of time to recondition everything in your humidor. The amount of time depends on how much you want to raise the RH%age of your beads, how big your humidor is, how many beads you have, and how many sponges you use. It could take hours, days, or a couple weeks. Take your time. Be patient. The more careful, patient and precise you are, the better things will work. The time you spend with the process will give you a greater understanding of how humidity works in your humidor, and how your beads react to the process.*_

*If the RH%age is higher than you like&#8230;*
_*You can lower the HCM beads' RH%age by placing them in the oven at 120 degrees Farenheit for 25 minutes. This relies on the surrounding RH (the RH in the room where you are, or "ambient" RH) being lower than your desired setpoint. If the ambient RH is 65% or higher and you are trying to lower the beads by heating, it will not work. The beads will assume the ambient RH%age. The ambient RH%age has to be lower, the lower the better. If the ambient is less than 5% lower than your desired setpoint, don't use the oven, use the freezer as instructed below.*_
_*If the oven trick isn't working well enough, or your ambient RH%age isn't low enough, you can put the beads on a plate and place them in the freezer for 25 minutes. SET A TIMER!!! If you freeze the beads, the water in the beads will freeze, expand, and destroy your beads. *_
_*After 25 minutes, take the beads out of the freezer and place them in a gallon ziplock freezer bag with your hygrometer. Let the bag sit for 24 hours, note the RH%age, and repeat the process if necessary."*_

I've also had success using Damp Rid in one of my big winadors to bring down the RH. It takes a lot longer, but it's thorough and even.
I think it's probably the better solution for large humidors than the freezer method, because it'd gradual.
The freezer method will bring the beads down, and they will scavenge water very, very rapidly.
I'm still on the fence with that line of thinking and I should really just keep it to myself until I've done more work with the stuff.



Hammerhead said:


> Scott, you have a website we can order from? I've been using Viper's beads with great success for two years, now, but I'd like to experiment with something else.
> 
> Also, can you discuss or point to how one fixes the RH setpoint? I'm a 65% kinda guy myself.


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## Hammerhead (Sep 7, 2005)

Ok, I have to confess I'm a bit confused.

It sounds as though there's no specific setpoint, and that it's all based on the beads ability to absorb and desorb to mainain equilibrium.

So, what I'm seeing here is that there's nothing to prevent the beads from continuing to absorb humidity from the cigars. For instance, if the beads will continue to absorb water from a sponge, what's to prevent them from sucking the life out of the 'gars when you put them into the humidor? In other words, when do they ever stop absorbing?

Hope I'm making sense here... I'm just not clear on how the beads decide for themselves what that 'setpoint' is.


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## Molarman777 (Nov 7, 2007)

Scott I think your beads taste horrible! I mean I have tried milk, gatorade, beer, and jim beam on them but they still taste like DIRT! (my poor attempt at humor):chk


In all seriousness, I love Scotts beads hell I am up to almost 3lbs now!

Scott is a great guy and a pleasure to deal with.


Keep up the great work Scotty!


Molar


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## aich75013 (Jul 14, 2008)

I believe they are 65% beads. Use his instructions if the humidity it too high or low and you need to get them back to 65%.



Hammerhead said:


> Ok, I have to confess I'm a bit confused.
> 
> It sounds as though there's no specific setpoint, and that it's all based on the beads ability to absorb and desorb to mainain equilibrium.
> 
> ...


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## shilala (Feb 1, 2008)

Hammerhead said:


> Ok, I have to confess I'm a bit confused.
> 
> It sounds as though there's no specific setpoint, and that it's all based on the beads ability to absorb and desorb to mainain equilibrium.
> 
> ...


From the original post...
_"The simple explanation is that they work on the principle of equilibrium.
The beads want to be equal with their surroundings, so they give off or gather up water to get happy.
The reason they can do that is because of their construction. Stick with me, this is cool...
The beads are full of pores and tunnels. They are laboratory made. The process causes the beads to have gazillions of tiny holes that are exactly 4 angstroms wide. (That's incredibly super small.)
The walls of said tunnels are EXACTLY one molecule thick.
Those molecules have an electrical charge called covalence. Each molecule has an affinity to attach itself to water.

So now, what you have in a pile of beads are thousands upon thousands of miles of tiny tunnels that act like water vacuums. They want water BAD.

The beads suck water from the air until the force of their desire equals the force that the air uses to hold onto water. When the air and the beads are even, that point is called "equilibrium"."_

To expand on that idea and make things more clear, you are working with a finite sealed space.
When the electrical affinity of the air equals the electrical affinity of the beads, all transfer of water vapor stops.
That is Equilibrium, and that's why the beads do not continue sucking up water.

To understand the beads further, you have to understand pages of mathematical relations, the liquid volume of water that exists in air as vapor, and the mathematical relations of vapor and liquid.
The cool thing is that beads transcend the vapor/water relationship.
They gather vapor and store it as water.
That volume relationship is why the principle of Equilibrium works.

I realize it is very hard to see why they work how they work.
It took me a long time to actually "get it". I ultimately understood what was going on once I realized the volume relationship between water held in the beads and water existing in air as vapor.
I'll try to illustrate this concept in words, but I'll probably fail miserably...

Imagine a box of air.
The air inside the box is 65%
If you were to take all the water that exists in the air as vapor and turned it into water, that drop of water might be as large as the head of a pin. (which is not at all true, I'm just trying to illustrate the point simply.)
Also inside the box is a pound of beads.
Inside those beads sits a volume of water that is held on to the beads by their electrical force. That amount of water is 4 ounces (also not correct, but an illustration).

So there is 1 drop of water in the air and 4 ounces of water in the beads.
Lets say that there are 4000 drops of water in one ounce.

As things sit, the beads and air at at equilibrium, both being 65% saturated (65%RH).

Now, I come along and open the door on the box.
The surrounding air is at 0%RH (which is once again and illustration).

All the 65%RH air falls out of the box and is replaced with 0%RH air.
The beads and air are now unbalanced. The air has a greater force to pull water from beads than the beads have to hold onto it.
So what happens now is that the air will pull one of the 4000 drops of water from the beads.

At this point, the air is now a tiny bit lower than 65%RH and the beads have 1/4000th less water.
In order to make the beads drop in RH by 6.5%, we'd have to open the door and replace it with 0% air 400 times. (also an illustration)
At an open a day, that would take more than a year to lower the beads to 58.5%.

Being as the difference between ambient air and air inside the humi is usually only 30 or 40 points at extreme, and usually only a 15 or 20% difference, we'd only really use 1/4th to a half of a drop of water each time we open the humi, so it'll take 800 to 1600 opens to lower the RH%age by 6.5%.

See the mathematical relationship developing?
That's why my beads work so much better than "treated" beads. It's because "treated" beads use up all that potential space for water by filling it with chemicals that regulate humidity. It's also why they need to be "recharged" more often.
Whether that's a downside or a plus side depends on who's considering it.
It's actually very ingenius to use the chemicals to regulate RH%age, while using the beads to store water. 
The trade off is that you have to add water more often when the ambient RH is lower than the bead's setpoint.
To me, that's not a bad trade off for someone that doesn't open their humi very often, and isn't around to look at their humi.
Thing is, my beads address that situation perfectly.

Okay, off the pro's and con's and back on point...
This mathematical relationship works both ways with my beads.
They react almost equally to a higher ambient RH as they do to a lower ambient RH. 
Thing is, as with all dessicants, my beads have a point where they absob as well as they desorb. That point is around 65% for HCM beads.
That point is around 45% for HCS beads.
Thing is, the curve for Grade 1 silica gel beads like my HCS beads flattens quickly after they are about 80% saturated. That means if they get to 80% RH they are almost worthless at gathering excess moisture from the air. Doesn't matter to us, but it matters when understanding how beads work.
At 80%, HCM beads are still sucking almost just as hard as at 45%. Their affinity for gathering water from the air is balanced all the way from 25% to 99%.
Their affinity for giving up water is greatest at around 65%, and decreases rapidly above 80%. Once the saturation reaches a certain point, HCM have a harder time giving away water because of their construction. That's great if you are drying things. For us keeping cigars, it means absolutely nothing.
From 0% to around 65%, HCM beads have an incredible affinity for taking on water, but that affinity is astoundingly equal, and that's a quality that stands out among dessicants. It's also the quality that makes them so incredibly perfect for use in our humis.

I'll shut up now.
Hope this answers your question!!!
Scott


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## Hammerhead (Sep 7, 2005)

shilala said:


> From the original post... <massive amounts of information edited> I'll shut up now.


:r

Scott, I didn't realize that the beads HAD a setpoint. I guess it's presumably as a byproduct of their manufacturing method. If that's correct, then I "get it". What didn't make sense until the above post was that I was unaware they had a setpoint at all.

Thanks!


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## shilala (Feb 1, 2008)

Hammerhead said:


> :r
> 
> Scott, I didn't realize that the beads HAD a setpoint. I guess it's presumably as a byproduct of their manufacturing method. If that's correct, then I "get it". What didn't make sense until the above post was that I was unaware they had a setpoint at all.
> 
> Thanks!


Nope, that's not it.
My beads do NOT have a setpoint. The are conditioned to a balanced equilibrium at a specific RH%age, ergo and adjustable setpoint.
I create the setpoint by adding water through various means until they balance and settle at my desired setpoint which is usually 65% or thereabouts.
In the summer I set the beads at 63% for shipping.
In the winter I will send them out at 66 or 67%. 
That two points is a buffer. That way when a guy sits them in his wet humi, they ultimately land at 65%. 
In the winter there will be a little extra water to help a guy's dry humi get where it needs to be, then balance at 65%.
I've had excellent results doing this, and it saves guys ever having to do any reconditioning.
I've learned to do it through talking to all the guys who are using the HCM beads. Their input is invaluable. It's the entire reason the HCM beads are what they are, and why they work so good right out of the box.
Without everybody's input I'd have never been able to develop these beads into something that works so damn good and so easily.


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## Trouthead (Sep 5, 2008)

So what effect does air pressure or altitude have on the above descrived process? If one lived in Leadville Colorado at 10000+ ft would the lack of air pressure have some resulting effect on how much the beads take in or give off or how fast? What about Denver 5280, or Salt Lake 4800 ft?

Just curious, and as you know I got a D in both physics and chemistry.


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## carterwsu (Apr 3, 2008)

Just out of curiousity, what were HCS beads developed for initially?


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## shilala (Feb 1, 2008)

Trouthead said:


> So what effect does air pressure or altitude have on the above descrived process? If one lived in Leadville Colorado at 10000+ ft would the lack of air pressure have some resulting effect on how much the beads take in or give off or how fast? What about Denver 5280, or Salt Lake 4800 ft?
> 
> 
> > None whatsoever. Vapor pressure doesn't play into the equation. It's all about covalency (the electrical chage created by the bead's composition and structure).
> ...


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## carterwsu (Apr 3, 2008)

Because of the small pore size and covalent charges/dispersion forces, do the HCS/HCM beads attract/retain any aroma molecules. If so, I wonder if it may be beneficial to place them in an enclosed dampened spanish cedar container for a period of time to assist in achieving that desired smell in any type of humidor/coolidor.

Also, is there any difference in using Deionized water, compared to plain distilled water?


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## shilala (Feb 1, 2008)

carterwsu said:


> Because of the small pore size and covalent charges/dispersion forces, do the HCS/HCM beads attract/retain any aroma molecules. If so, I wonder if it may be beneficial to place them in an enclosed dampened spanish cedar container for a period of time to assist in achieving that desired smell in any type of humidor/coolidor.
> 
> Also, is there any difference in using Deionized water, compared to plain distilled water?


All silica gel beads will gather carbon stinky chains because of the size of their pores. 
HCM beads will not, as their pores are 4 angstroms and uniform. The holes are not large enough to let the complex chains in, and as a result do not clog and stink.
To place the beads in a dampened anything is just asking for mold, not to mention it'd be exposing them to so much stink that it'd shorten their usable life dramatically.
Realize that once the stink molecules are fixed to the beads, they're there for good. They don't come back out. Therefore they won't become an aroma sachet like you're thinking. It'll just ruin them.
We're just talking about HCS beads there, by the way, and not HCM beads. As I stated earlier, complex molecular chains can't get in the beads. The holes are to small to receive them.
But if you were to let them sit in a damp anything, they're going to grow mold.
I should probably expand on the "dampened" thing. You should NEVER associate your cigars or beads or with any dampened anything. If it's damp it will grow mold.

On the deionized water, I don't have a clue.
We use distilled water with our beads and in our humidors. I've never had cause to explore deionized water as an alternative, nor will I in the future.
I don't even know where I'd get it if I wanted some.


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## chris45set (May 13, 2008)

Scott, you have said not to place anything damp in the humidor with the beads (I have 1/2 lb in my desktop and 1-1/2 lbs in my small cooler).
I have saved (pack rat that I am) four or five of the cedar sheaths that have wrapped some of my cigars (H. Upmann vintage cameroon comes to mind).
When the RH in my humi drops below about 61%, I dampen two of these sheaths with distilled water, wipe off the excess and place them in the humi in lieu of a shotglass.
Within a couple of days they RH is back to 63-65 and the sheaths are dry.
I also do this in the cooler with four of the same sheaths.
Is this a bad practice? Am I risking a mold infestation?
The cooler especially concerns me as that is my long-term storage facility.
Inquiring minds want to know, and I trust your opinion.

Thanks, Chris


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## shilala (Feb 1, 2008)

chris45set said:


> Scott, you have said not to place anything damp in the humidor with the beads (I have 1/2 lb in my desktop and 1-1/2 lbs in my small cooler).
> I have saved (pack rat that I am) four or five of the cedar sheaths that have wrapped some of my cigars (H. Upmann vintage cameroon comes to mind).
> When the RH in my humi drops below about 61%, I dampen two of these sheaths with distilled water, wipe off the excess and place them in the humi in lieu of a shotglass.
> Within a couple of days they RH is back to 63-65 and the sheaths are dry.
> ...


Hi Chris,
I remarked on setting the beads in a dampened cedar box. Real bad idea.
To set dampened cedar sleeves on a plate and set them in your humi, not a problem at all. 
Proximity is the concern. If the beads are setting on something wet, that wet something can't dry out. There is perfect opportunity for conditions to exist where mold will grow.
Same goes with setting dampened sleeves on your cigars. Bad idea.
Just put something that isn't absorbent between the wet sleeves and the absorbent things and you're 100% okay.


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## chris45set (May 13, 2008)

Thanks for the clarification, I tend to get paranoid at times . . .
Also, you descriptions were quite good, you should have been a science teacher.


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## shilala (Feb 1, 2008)

chris45set said:


> Thanks for the clarification, I tend to get paranoid at times . . .
> Also, you descriptions were quite good, you should have been a science teacher.


I don't think I'd make it as a science teacher. Trapped with all those "other people's kids" I'd probably snap somewhere during day two.


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## splattttttt (May 17, 2012)

It's been five years since this (HCM beads) product was introduced... And if not for this forum, I'd have probably never would.

I don't see any of the posters (members) associated on this thread these days, but there are many of you that have been here that long. Have you experienced the benefits of this product?


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## Gdaddy (Sep 20, 2012)

Yes, I recently switched to HCM beads and I'm very pleased so far. Reading the information on this thread from Scott Shilala and the extent of his research after testing all different forms of RH control convinced me this product is WAY beyond the Kitty Litter I was using.


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## splattttttt (May 17, 2012)

Gdaddy said:


> Yes, I recently switched to HCM beads and I'm very pleased so far. Reading the information on this thread from Scott Shilala and the extent of his research after testing all different forms of RH control convinced me this product is WAY beyond the Kitty Litter I was using.


My next humidification purchase will be these. But for all my syntethic bins only. For some reason, the beads work well with my wood. Just not with plastic :juggle:


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