# Ethics Question



## discdog (Jun 23, 2006)

Hey guys, I don't post here much. I subscribe to the read more,post less school. I try not to post unless I have something positive to to add or a legitimate question that I can't find the answer to in the archieves. So here goes the question.

You are looking for a limited production humidor, 500 made. You're having trouble locating one so you go online to ask your BOTL to help locate one for you. Several guys try to no avail but one, a vendor, replys publically and privately that he has two. You call him to inquire and find out that one of the humis is 001/500. Verify this, talk out the details, agree to the terms, credit card info is exchanged and delivery method acknowledged. You hang up the phone thinking the deal is done.

The next day, you recieve a call that 3 hours after your "deal", a local walks into the shop and pays a couple of hundred more than you did and walks out with your humidor. 

Finally the question: How can the vendor sell the humi if you already own it? 
Or does he have the right to sell it for whatever he can get for it as long as it's in his possession?

Thanks guys, just curious as to what you think.


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## RJT (Feb 12, 2005)

If that is the way it went down it is simply BAD BUSINESS. I would not shop with them again. Sorry you had that happen. RJT


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## Hydrated (Aug 9, 2006)

discdog said:


> Hey guys, I don't post here much. I subscribe to the read more,post less school. I try not to post unless I have something positive to to add or a legitimate question that I can't find the answer to in the archieves. So here goes the question.
> 
> You are looking for a limited production humidor, 500 made. You're having trouble locating one so you go online to ask your BOTL to help locate one for you. Several guys try to no avail but one, a vendor, replys publically and privately that he has two. You call him to inquire and find out that one of the humis is 001/500. Verify this, talk out the details, agree to the terms, credit card info is exchanged and delivery method acknowledged. You hang up the phone thinking the deal is done.
> 
> ...


That is a "not cool" move on the seller's part. I'd sure like to hear that vendor's defense for screwing you... especially if he's a member here.


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## n3uka (Nov 13, 2006)

If that is the case, it is very bad business. 

I am sure it will cost him much more in the long run.:sl


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## Bigwaved (May 20, 2006)

Sounds like a person that does not value their word. Sorry you missed out on the humi, brother.


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## n3uka (Nov 13, 2006)

Hydrated said:


> I'd sure like to hear that vendor's defense for screwing you... especially if he's a member here.


:tpd:


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## BeagleOne (Dec 23, 2005)

Once the transaction is made, then the product is your's. Sounds a bit of a Bait and Switch tactic which is, if I am not mistaken, illegal.


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## palm55 (Jan 5, 2006)

Sorry to hear this, man!! In fact, THIS (the ethical consideration) is what I honestly believe has been lacking in the way folks do business!

After all is said and done, however, "What goes around comes around." Short-term gain will be overpowered by long-term customer satisfaction.

PERIOD!!!!!


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## TU09 (Mar 26, 2006)

Hydrated said:


> That is a "not cool" move on the seller's part. I'd sure like to hear that vendor's defense for screwing you... especially if he's a member here.


:tpd:

Personally, I'd like to know which vendor it was (assuming it is of the NC variety) so I have the info to make an informed decision the next time I purchase such products.


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## discdog (Jun 23, 2006)

Hydrated said:


> That is a "not cool" move on the seller's part. I'd sure like to hear that vendor's defense for screwing you... especially if he's a member here.


Well unfortunately he is. And this just happened two days before Christmas. His first contact with me started "had a customer walk in and offer XX more than you did". It sounded to me as he wanted me to raise the price. When I didn't respond as he anticipated, he changed to " he came in and paid more than you did and left with it".
Now I'm torn between calling him out publicly so it doesn't happen to someone else or not saying anything here due to my not knowing his standing in this community.
There are some very familiar names here, and if they should see this & tell me to out this guy I would be more than willing to do so.


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## RGD (May 10, 2006)

As far as I am concerned - once the credit card info was exchanged the humidor was yours. Re-selling the item amounts to a liar and thief in my book. Tar and feather would be too good in this situation - pisses me off, greedy bastard.


Ron


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## KyLongbeard (Nov 13, 2006)

That's a sorry bunch of crap. Be the last time I'd use that vendor.:2


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## RJT (Feb 12, 2005)

Bob, I found the situation you are refering to. I hate this happen too you. I have dealt with the vendor in question many times without a problem. As of matter of fact spoke with him over an hour on the phone one day just shooting the crap. 

I read his response and while I dont say it makes it right I "KINDA" understand how and why it happen. He partners in about 3 stores so I can see how this little mess happen. I am not sure how he could and can make it up but if I know him he most likley will try and make it right. 

Bob dont think I am taking up with him and dont see your point. I would be mad too.

In life and business it is not how you made the mess its how well you clean it up. I hope for both parties involved all gets worked out. Good Luck, RJT


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## TU09 (Mar 26, 2006)

discdog said:


> Now I'm torn between calling him out publicly so it doesn't happen to someone else or not saying anything here due to my not knowing his standing in this community.


I'm still a lowly noob but I think it would benefit us all to know what vendor you were dealing with, CS member or not. Maybe it would save somebody else from such an incident. At the same time, it would be to his public credit if we were to see him make things right. :2


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## discdog (Jun 23, 2006)

RJT, I have left out a few things, but nothing that wasn't discussed and agreed upon. 

If the guy had just called and said, "there was a screw up and your humi was sold". I would have said," well, mistakes happen, I'm not happy about it, but it wasn't meant to be" and went on. But to give me the impression that if I offered more money, it could still be mine, well that just didn't sit well with me.

So liar and cheat just about sums up my feelings.


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## floydp (Jun 6, 2004)

RGD said:


> As far as I am concerned - once the credit card info was exchanged the humidor was yours. Re-selling the item amounts to a liar and thief in my book. Tar and feather would be too good in this situation - pisses me off, greedy bastard.
> 
> Ron


:tpd: :tpd: Thats farged up. Bad business practice. We're not rich folks but we spend alot on cigars and stuff that goes with it. We would never buy from that establishment again.


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## RJT (Feb 12, 2005)

discdog said:


> RGD, I have left out a few things, but nothing that wasn't discussed and agreed upon.
> 
> If the guy had just called and said, "there was a screw up and your humi was sold". I would have said," well, mistakes happen, I'm not happy about it, but it wasn't meant to be" and went on. But to give me the impression that if I offered more money, it could still be mine, well that just didn't sit well with me.
> 
> So liar and cheat just about sums up my feelings.


OK now I see things a little better....I hope for both of you, he tries to fix this little mess. RJT


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## Bleedingshrimp (Dec 6, 2006)

Despite my noobality in the cigar world, my experience in customer service allows me to say that, with very few exceptions, this is truly a bad business practice. Not in good form at all. :2


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## discdog (Jun 23, 2006)

Well he offered to knock a few bucks off of one of the other boxes, but #1xx wasn't something I was interested in. I already have the 03,04,and 05 models and this is the last year they will probably be offered. If I wait a couple of months, I can get an empty for far less. So my main interest here was the number.
After the way he handled it, I don't want to give him my money, I'd rather deal with someone I trust.


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## RJT (Feb 12, 2005)

discdog said:


> Well he offered to knock a few bucks off of one of the other boxes, but #1xx wasn't something I was interested in. I already have the 03,04,and 05 models and this is the last year they will probably be offered. If I wait a couple of months, I can get an empty for far less. So my main interest here was the number.
> After the way he handled it, I don't want to give him my money, I'd rather deal with someone I trust.


Let me make a few phone calls to some local b&m that might have one. Unless you were loooking for that # only. Just let me know I will be glad to help. RJT


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## bhudson57 (Oct 4, 2006)

I hate to get involved in things like this. There are always 2 sides to the story. I would give him the opportunity to remedy the situation. I don't know you, but if what you say is true, I would be fuming. So much that I'd probably bring it to small claims court just to make a point. Give him the opportunity, and if he doesn't make it better, then I suggest you oust him, so we know who we are dealing with. Making money is important, but so is honestly and not screwing your customers. Let us know how you make out. Don't let this go!

Bill


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## discdog (Jun 23, 2006)

RJT said:


> Let me make a few phone calls to some local b&m that might have one. Unless you were loooking for that # only. Just let me know I will be glad to help. RJT


Thank you very much sir, I'd appreciate that.


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## bhudson57 (Oct 4, 2006)

discdog said:


> Well he offered to knock a few bucks off of one of the other boxes, but #1xx wasn't something I was interested in. I already have the 03,04,and 05 models and this is the last year they will probably be offered. If I wait a couple of months, I can get an empty for far less. So my main interest here was the number.
> After the way he handled it, I don't want to give him my money, I'd rather deal with someone I trust.


So let me get this straight, he makes a few hundred more on your humidor, and then offers you a few bucks off another one? Are we talking comparable to the amount he made?


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## bleech1 (Jul 25, 2006)

Post up the company name, lest someone else gets treated in the same manner. This is someone to whom I would not give my business.


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## discdog (Jun 23, 2006)

bhudson57 said:


> I hate to get involved in things like this. There are always 2 sides to the story. I would give him the opportunity to remedy the situation. I don't know you, but if what you say is true, I would be fuming. So much that I'd probably bring it to small claims court just to make a point. Give him the opportunity, and if he doesn't make it better, then I suggest you oust him, so we know who we are dealing with. Making money is important, but so is honestly and not screwing your customers. Let us know how you make out. Don't let this go!
> 
> Bill


I can appreciate that Bill, and like I said before, most of you don't know me. And you're right, there are two sides to everything. His response to me earlier was, it was one of his emploees fault and he didn't actually charge my card. My response is, he accepted my info (this was not my first transaction with him and all but one other were flawless) and he owns the place so the buck stops with him, he could have offered anything in the store up to today, but all I got was a $30.00 discount and poor excuses.


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## n3uka (Nov 13, 2006)

Still hope the vendor will chime in.

i have purchased from most here and haven't had a bad transaction yet.

will be curious who they are


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## bhudson57 (Oct 4, 2006)

discdog said:


> I can appreciate that Bill, and like I said before, most of you don't know me. And you're right, there are two sides to everything. His response to me earlier was, it was one of his emploees fault and he didn't actually charge my card. My response is, he accepted my info (this was not my first transaction with him and all but one other were flawless) and he owns the place so the buck stops with him, he could have offered anything in the store up to today, but all I got was a $30.00 discount and poor excuses.


I don't know. I always tend to be a little too hot-headed when it comes to these things. Today's society has turned into a customer service society, and my philosophy is if you can't provide the service, I'll go somewhere else that will. Oh, and I'll tell everybody I know that you screwed me. Now, I also consider where I am shopping. If I am shopping at bargain basement cigars, I get what I paid for. My local B&M isn't the cheapest place around. I can get better deals on the internet, but I go because of the service. I think as I get older I place a higher value on service.

Either way, maybe you should inform him how disappointed you are and how you've brought the topic up to other BOTL's and they agree with you and ask what he wants to do rectify the situation. Good luck!

Bill


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## j6ppc (Jun 5, 2006)

IMHO w/ a NC vendor, after having given him/her opportunity to make it good then an outing might be in order if satisfaction has not been achieved.
:2


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## thunderbucks (Mar 21, 2006)

Without knowing the entire situation, it sounds like poor business practices. For all I'm concerned (unless there are understandably extenuating circumstances), once he had your credit card information, it belongs to you.


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## JaKaAch (Sep 17, 2006)

Sounds like he sold "your" humidor. Since it was your's you should get the money, including the profit. 
I hope the seller comes out with his side of the story. I don't know if it would help, because once he said it was your's he should have finished the deal.:BS


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## lenguamor (Nov 23, 2006)

I do hope that, given the opportunity, the vendor makes good.

But in the event that he doesn't, then I do hope that he is outed here. Why so harsh? Because this is not a usual, run-of-the-mill transaction - this was a one-of-a-kind item, in a number which was unique and unreproduceable. The vendor, having taken the payment information, had entered into a contract with the buyer to supply the item - that item, and no other. He then failed to take care of business and put in the transaction, which is totally, 100% on him. And the item in question is gone now, no way to "take this back."

This is really bad business on the vendor's part, because it can easily and reasonably be concluded that he simply got a better offer for the item and sold it out from under his original customer - whether it's true or not, one could reasonably sustain that suspicion. And that bodes ill for a vendor in a large community such as this, with the buying power represented here.


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## Ashcan Bill (Jul 29, 2006)

I've read through this post twice now and I'm still a little confused.

Was this a transaction that went south due to somebody making a mistake, and the vendor didn't handle it very well? Or did the vendor actually decide his integrity was worth a couple of hundred bucks, and then price said integrity accordingly? 

Or are we really not sure at this point exactly what transpired? 

Regardless, I'd certainly be upset.


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## TTgirl (Sep 8, 2005)

Definitely not cool. 

If the guy wanted to get a certain price for the humidor, he should have charged that price to begin with - or he should have put it up on Ebay or Cbid for auction.

I'd like to know who the dealer is, because I'd hate to do business with him unwittingly.


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## mastershogun (Nov 3, 2006)

I concur with others... not good business :hn


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## Rballkid (Sep 7, 2005)

I would have to agree with everyone else. That is not good business at all. I hope everything gets resolved. I am sorry to hear that you lost out on one of those.
Dan


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## kvaughan (Jul 11, 2006)

Put him on TV! Let's hear who it is!


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## kvm (Sep 7, 2005)

I'd like to hear the vendors side. If it happened as you stated in your first post then it would not be ethical. If in fact a mistake was made, they made a gesture to make it up to you. Did they agree to sell it to you for less than what they were originally asking?


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## mtg972 (Aug 28, 2006)

He took your credit card info and led you to believe it was a done deal? Sounds like someone who puts profit over principle. If it was already promised to someone else, and it was a legitimate miscommunication, that's understandable. Either way, I hope he will make things right with you. cheers


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## Airborne RU (Oct 7, 2006)

Need to hear the vendors side of the story.

Perhaps it won't be factually different but it will reveal a miscommunication.


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## moki (Jan 12, 2004)

Airborne RU said:


> Need to hear the vendors side of the story.
> 
> Perhaps it won't be factually different but it will reveal a miscommunication.


You can read the vendor's response here:

http://www.stogiechat.com/cigar-forum/view_topic.php?id=3417&forum_id=2&page=2

(second post on the second page of that thread)


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## mosesbotbol (Sep 21, 2005)

That is pretty lame. So much for doing business again with this vendor. What vendor should've done was call you to say someone wants your humidor and if you wanted to let it go, he would do.... something to make it worth you not moving forward. You could always say "sure, I'll take a different one and some cigars" you both think you got a deal. He never approached it like that, just a slimeball move.

Some stores are really nickel and dime and miss out on the big picture.


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## 68TriShield (May 15, 2006)

moki said:


> You can read the vendor's response here:
> 
> http://www.stogiechat.com/cigar-forum/view_topic.php?id=3417&forum_id=2&page=2
> 
> (second post on the second page of that thread)


Gabes response was weak at best.His company is one i wont be doing buisness with.My word is much more important then any dollar amount,his is not...


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## Dzrtrat (Oct 9, 2006)

Huh..........Its a crappy situation. Sounds like the mans morals can be bought, I think the guy realized what he had because others suddenly were intersted after you started seeking one out. Unless the guy lied and still has the humi ( just holding out for more money) I don't see how he can make this right. Bad form.....bad form.


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## RPB67 (Mar 26, 2005)

Obviously the owner is a business man and not a Botl. 

It was not good business, but it does happen out there in the world. 

I hope this works out for you in the end. Gabe runs a lot of specials and the boards communities are small. I am sure this will get around and cause him some negative publicity as well.


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## moki (Jan 12, 2004)

I posted my thoughts on the thread I linked to above. Something doesn't sound quite right.


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## Bigwaved (May 20, 2006)

moki said:


> I posted my thoughts on the thread I linked to above. Something doesn't sound quite right.


You hit it right on the head with your response. The price difference being mentioned is a lot to explain away, imo.


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## neoflex (Jan 3, 2006)

That is really chitty! I would be curious to what the business was just so I know for future reference and know who not to deal with. I will have to check out the stogie chat link to see what went down over there and see if he was outed there. I feel for ya bro, that is real sucky!
Not sure what the humidor is but I know one of my locals just got in one of the Fuente (I think that's who put it out) limited humis filled with 10 Opus, 10 Diamond Crowns and something else. Not sure if this is the one but if it is, shoot me a pm and I can run by there this weekend and get you more info. My wife pointed it out to me when I was there last weekend. I think it had a $900 price tag on it though. Either way, good luck and I hope the vendor comes up with a feasable resolution for you.


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## discdog (Jun 23, 2006)

As all have said, there are two sides to this story. And I have stated that I intentionally left out some of the things - nothing that wasn't discussed or agreed to before the transaction was completed. I say completed because I am using a template of previous experiences. When I order anything online, the last thing I do to consumate the sale is give my cc info and then check out. Normally (as in this case) when the purchase is over $500.00, I prefer to speak to someone and not do this online, I just feel more comfortable speaking to a person and asking questions. 
At the time I did this there were extenuating circumstances. The product was in another of his locations, so there was much discussion on how this would be handled with the manager of the other store, Gabriel and myself. If I hadn't felt comfortable with the situation, I can assure you, I would not have continued with the deal. 
My biggest issue with the whole thing was the way it was handled. If the call had said"we made a mistake and sold your humi" fine, mistakes happen, but to give me the impression at first that if I were to offer more money it would still be mine, that didn't bode well with me.
To blame it on an employee (who by the way says Gabe picked it up to take to his store for shipping) who doesn't have the authority to make final decisions or override the owners decisions is lame. 
At this point, there is not much he can do to salvage my business, I simply don't trust him and I choose not to do business with someone I can't trust.
But that's where we are now.
As far as anyone else doing business with him, I don't want to influence anyone one way or the other, this is, after all, one sale of many. I just want BOTL/SOTL to be aware of how things are handled AFTER something goes wrong. 
We have all had great experiences with fantastic vendors, and most of us have had an order go wrong. To me, it's more important to know how the later is resolved, since we know that sooner or later something is bound to go wrong.


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## vtdragon (Nov 23, 2005)

*discdog*


> At this point, there is not much he can do to salvage my business, I simply don't trust him and I choose not to do business with someone I can't trust.


I read through the entire thread along with vendor's reply on the other forum and agree that he is *NOT* someone I would want to do business with. There are many very good, reputable vendors much more deserving of my money than someone who does business like this.


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## PadronMe (Apr 26, 2005)

Too bad he only made a few hundred bucks on the humidor because he is going to lose a whole lot more from potential customers.


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## Islesfan (Mar 1, 2005)

One thing I don't understand is the price difference. If the item was at the other store, and during the transaction with you the item was sold for the same price before it could be put aside, that would be one thing. Was he running an auction on this humidor looking for the best price? The price should have been the same to you as anyone walking into one of his stores, unless it was some online only deal; and even if it was an online only deal its pretty lousy not to have it ready to ship to a customer who buys it online. Mistakes happen, but the price difference leaves some serious questions for me. Hope this vendor makes this right in some way.


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## scotton (Dec 18, 2006)

JaKaAch said:


> Sounds like he sold "your" humidor. Since it was your's you should get the money, including the profit.


+1

I'm just glad it wasn't CI that screwed you, because I'm not sure I could handle a c-bid boycott. Must have my precious.


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## discdog (Jun 23, 2006)

Islesfan said:


> One thing I don't understand is the price difference. If the item was at the other store, and during the transaction with you the item was sold for the same price before it could be put aside, that would be one thing. Was he running an auction on this humidor looking for the best price? The price should have been the same to you as anyone walking into one of his stores, unless it was some online only deal; and even if it was an online only deal its pretty lousy not to have it ready to ship to a customer who buys it online. Mistakes happen, but the price difference leaves some serious questions for me. Hope this vendor makes this right in some way.


You would have to ask the vendor about the difference. That one is a little out of my realm. All I do know is he told me there was a difference. And it seemed substantial to me.
As far as the difference between walk-in and online, I see this all the time. Especially with vendors who post on the boards, they give us deals that aren't available to everyone and this may be one of those cases. Again, I am just guessing.
You are correct, mistakes happen, they always will. How you handle the situation afterwards is what most of us focus on. And in this case, to me, it has been handled poorly.


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## discdog (Jun 23, 2006)

moki said:


> I posted my thoughts on the thread I linked to above. Something doesn't sound quite right.


Moki, I have responded to your post on the other board. I think it answers your questions. Let me know if otherwise.


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## Blueface (May 28, 2005)

Three sides to every story.
One persons's, the other person's and somewhere in the middle, the truth.


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## n3uka (Nov 13, 2006)

While I was in Florida, I was actually advised away from that chain.
With LJ's and Tobacco World. Didn't need to go anywhere else down there.


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## MeNimbus (Dec 18, 2006)

What a greedy SOB. Never do business with him again and report him to the Better Business Bureau.


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## bleech1 (Jul 25, 2006)

Why would you not post what company this was on this board? It is as bad as saying "look at these unscrupulous business practices I was subjected to, but I won't tell you by whom so you get screwed too."

Thanks!

and yes, I realize that that info is now available via the link to SC


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## discdog (Jun 23, 2006)

Blueface said:


> Three sides to every story.
> One persons's, the other person's and somewhere in the middle, the truth.


I agree with your sentiment but only if someone has something to gain. The reason I didn't out anyone, was that it was never my intention to flame anyone. Although I don't agree with the way he handled this to date, it is his business and his choice. 
The only thing that I "gain" would have been the humi that I ordered. I have expressed several times that this was not the first order with him and all but one of those were flawless. The other was finally resolved to everyone's satisfaction. 
My only issue with this whole deal is the impression he gave me that if I were willing to pay more, it would be mine. I have a problem with that. I didn't want and still don't want anything other than what I paid for. That's it. 
But the chances of this happening are very slight. As we all know.


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## pnoon (Jun 8, 2005)

bleech1 said:


> Why would you not post what company this was on this board? It is as bad as saying "look at these unscrupulous business practices I was subjected to, but I won't tell you by whom so you get screwed too."
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> and yes, I realize that that info is now available via the link to SC


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## discdog (Jun 23, 2006)

bleech1 said:


> Why would you not post what company this was on this board? It is as bad as saying "look at these unscrupulous business practices I was subjected to, but I won't tell you by whom so you get screwed too."
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> and yes, I realize that that info is now available via the link to SC


I probably should have handled this differently. I didn't intend to short change or slight this board in any way. Hell, I like it here and have always felt welcome. That's the reason I started this thread. But I was unsure of the response and was hoping that someone who knew me would respond and clue me in. Moki just beat me to it. Although, I wouldn't have linked to another board, it worked out. So far.

I guess I just generally hate the drama that posting across other boards sometimes creates, and didn't want to perpetuate that. But I did feel strongly enough about this topic that I thought by doing it in the manner in which I did would not appear to "out of nowhere come here and start flaming someone".

The last thing I intended was to insult or slight anyone. And my apologies to anyone who took it that way.


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## volfan (Jul 15, 2006)

I have been reading this here and at the other board since the link was posted and I can tell you that I appreciate you trying to be tactful about this. I can also tell you that while the vendor in question has posted a reply at the other forum, he has not done the same here. This tells me that not only does he not have a "plausible" excuse, he does not care enough about the members here to post an explanation. I have heard that they have a nice B&M but I can assure you that they will never get one red cent of my money. Thanks again for sharing your plight and trying to be diplomatic.

scottie


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## bhudson57 (Oct 4, 2006)

Thanks for sharing your plight. Like you said, it is one transaction of many, but it will help us to be more cautious when dealing with this vendor. I can appreciate your unwillingness to come right out and flame the vendor. The vendor has been given the opportunity to make things right, and IMO he hasn't. Thanks for the heads up. I'll certainly take the situation into consideration in the future.

Bill


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## lenguamor (Nov 23, 2006)

volfan said:


> I have been reading this here and at the other board since the link was posted and I can tell you that I appreciate you trying to be tactful about this. I can also tell you that while the vendor in question has posted a reply at the other forum, he has not done the same here. This tells me that not only does he not have a "plausible" excuse, he does not care enough about the members here to post an explanation. I have heard that they have a nice B&M but I can assure you that they will never get one red cent of my money. Thanks again for sharing your plight and trying to be diplomatic.
> 
> scottie


Ditto. I'm sorry if I'm going to come off angry about this, but I am.

I will never do business with that vendor, and I will advise anyone against doing so if it comes up. In fact, if there were a "blacklist" of vendors here at CS for the members' benefit, I would think that SH would be a prime candidate.

I don't give a crap about "extenuating circumstances," oreven any inconsistencies in dd's accounts here or in the other forum; *the basic facts of the incident remain the same throughout, and those facts indicate at the least poor business practice by the vendor, and at the most fraud - that's the range of options.*

1. Gabriel at SH took an order for an item in his stores, took a CC# from the buyer and told the buyer it was a deal. *He made a deal, period.*

2. Then "his manager" sold the item *after Gabriel had told "him" to put it aside because it was sold - for more money!*

3. Then Gabriel calls his original customer back and tells him not only that the item was sold out from under him *after a deal was made*, but that it was sold for more money; now, that's either fishing for an offer or rubbinbg it in - and I don't care which it actually was, because both options are poor business practice.

The vendor is unscrupulous, no question in my mind; all the indicators point to it, from his response in the other forum to his lack of response here.

Screw him, he won't get my money anymore.


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## Danimal (Jun 6, 2004)

Bad business indeed. To keep your loyal customers or to create new ones, you stick to your word and forego the possibility of a short-term profit. The fact that he charged your card really makes this action taboo. Even if he had just verbally stated it, I would have greatly appreciated the gesture to hold on to it and he would have received my business for a long time. 

I imagine that his business may thrive due to the stock he has at hand, but honestly for a B&M, it's all boils down to the client. The B&M I go to has a mediocre stock, high prices, but the warm greeting I get from the manager and the kind gestures he makes goes a LONG way. 

Never do business with him again..


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## mastershogun (Nov 3, 2006)

after reading the post from the other forum I was not impressed with what the vendor had to say. He did not have any viable excuse and you could tell he sold the humi for more money. I agree with the fact that mistakes wil always happens and that is not the issue... how they make right a mistake is the significant part. He did not handle anything right becuase he was the one who made the mistake for more money and then did nothing to make it right with you :hn


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## discdog (Jun 23, 2006)

Most of you guys have read the thread over on the other site. And you also know I have been called a liar. Not sure yet why, but I can assure you that neither over their or here have I tried to mislead or misrepresent anything that has happened. Gabriel has come back and made a statement and I responded:

gmiranda33 wrote: 
Guys just to clarify on my behalf. When I phoned DD about the problem I told him that the humidor was sold for more money. In no way was I asking him for an increase in the amount he wanted to spend.

Being that the humidor DD wanted has been sold, I dont know if there is anything I can do to remedy the situation but here goes.

DD if you still want a 2006 LGC Serie Limitada humidor with cigars, I will give it to you at my cost. I am willing to show you the invoice from General Cigars if need be.

Once again I apologize.

Gabriel



And Gabiel just to clarify on my behalf. You initially said the walk-in customer offered more money, that's when I got mad and then you said he bought it. The new offer that you made is measureably more palitable than the original but as I said before to you, I wasn't looking for anything for free. And I don't want to be ungrateful for the offer, but I would rather not deal with your company again. If you would like to extend the offer to one of the board members here, great. It would go a long way to rebuild your crediblity here.

As noted somewhere above, I could have left the attitude and emotion out of my initial post, and for that, I apologize. It was never my intent to try to use this or any other board for personal gain, just to try to impove what I percieve as poor customer service.

As for your apology, I accept. 

Hopefully this is now concluded.

I would like to reiterate again, I merely wanted to bring this out into the light of day, I deal with customers everyday and I know that the best way to get someone's attention is to get to their money. I did not and do not want to profit from this, I will find the one I want, pay a fair price for it and be happy as hell. But I'll do it my way. And by the way, thanks to everyone who pm'd me with the sources. I should have one on the way today.


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## lenguamor (Nov 23, 2006)

It makes me happy that you found a resolution, dd. Glad you are getting a similar item from another vendor.

I still won't do business with this guy again; a man is judged by his actions, not his words.


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## thebiglebowski (Dec 19, 2005)

the vendor was wrong, his initial apology and resolution was half-assed. i'm glad i never heard of this vendor prior to this thread as i would certainly avoid him in the future. any discussion of discipline for the manager who sold the humidor out from under you? i doubt it...

this is a great example of how a site such as CS can be a excellent gathering place and information exchange. very powerful.

thanks for sharing.


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## Bobb (Jun 26, 2006)

volfan said:


> *I have been reading this here and at the other board since the link was posted and I can tell you that I appreciate you trying to be tactful about this.* I can also tell you that while the vendor in question has posted a reply at the other forum, he has not done the same here. This tells me that not only does he not have a "plausible" excuse, he does not care enough about the members here to post an explanation. I have heard that they have a nice B&M but I can assure you that they will never get one red cent of my money. *Thanks again for sharing your plight and trying to be diplomatic*.


:tpd:

This is a touchy situation, and I really appreciate you not letting it turn into a huge flame war. I'm sorry to hear about your misfortune. I hope you can find another vendor with better buisness standards.

Thanks for sharing


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## volfan (Jul 15, 2006)

For what it's worth, LJs in Royal Palm Beach, FL and Dukecitycigars.com both have aforementioned LGC humis. Give them a call.

scottie


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## Demented (Nov 7, 2006)

As far as I'm concerned&#8230;

Once the vendor took your card info, the sale was made and the box was yours, period.

To sell the same humidor to a walk-in customer _after_ selling it to you isn't bad ethics, it's total lack of ethics!

Dmntd


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## lenguamor (Nov 23, 2006)

Demented said:


> As far as I'm concerned&#8230;
> 
> Once the vendor took your card info, the sale was made and the box was yours, period.
> 
> ...


What he said.


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## wharfrathoss (Dec 27, 2006)

i believe everyoner deserveds a 2nd chance, especially if it*might *have been an honest mistake/miscomunication-i debated posting (since this is literally my 1st post) but here's my opinion fwiw-it doesn't sound like it happend on purpose, so give him the chance to show what type of guy he is by attempting to make it right-if he don't, out him


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## Ivory Tower (Nov 18, 2005)

Here's my analysis, ethics aside:

You said, "I offer to buy your LGC humi for x$."

He said, "I accept your offer."

The consideration was you promising to pay x$ for humi and him promising to deliver humi.

Exchanging credit card # is just further evidence of the contract. Also he admitted that you transmitted the credit card #. Further he admitted that you contracted to buy 1/500.

Therefore a simple contract was formed under which you have the following rights and remedies:

If the unique # of the humi is of no interest to you and he has offered to sell you a substitute for less than market price, you're out nothing but hurt feelings.

On the other hand, if you specifically bargained for #1/500, then he owes you the amount necessary to buy that on the open market--evidently $200 over market price.


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## jinny (Sep 30, 2006)

I know I'm in the minority here, but I think the vendor's biggest mistake was his story... tell the right "story" and he could have avoided this fiasco.

this situation is more a customer relations and ethical issue rather than an actual "business" issue... I would be willing to bet that trying to get some sort of compensation thru small claims court would be a waste of time and a complaint to the local BB could be tarnishing an otherwise good local business.

I'm very skeptical about ALL businesses... ALL for profit businesses have to engage in some level of obfuscation in order to stay in business... and to some degree we have to accept it. It's like game... everyday we, as the consumers, run around pretending to not know that the vendors that we buy from are purchasing their wares at a lower cost than we buy from them... sure, implicitly we understand that that is what is happening, but we play along, because it is in our best interest to do so.

I don't begrudge a vendor for holding out for the best price. Vendors do it all the time... slip a tip to the maitre'd and you get someone else's table... pay asking price or more at a dealership and you get that car everyone is sitting around haggling for... etc.

it's really not that surprising... but in most cases, you are not aware that you've been passed over... the more generic the commodity, the more blatant the obfuscation and the easier it is to obfuscate.

personally, I wouldn't like the described situation either... but I've seen far worse happen.

in the case of this vendor, they didn't charge the card... so no payment was actually taken... the fact that they waited to charge the card suggests to me that the supply was tentative... on items that are truly rare, I wouldn't consider it mine till I have it in hand...

the fault I see is that the vendor may have revealed too much of the transaction. I would be upset if I knew that someone cut in line at that restaurant, or if someone else got that car I wanted while I was waiting for the "manager" to okay my deal. Sure, it might be enough to make me go elsewhere next time... but that's why they usually don't tell you when they back stab you.

I'm not trying to defend the vendor's practices... but in this case, he seems to be on the up and up in regards to what happened and even to his detriment, he seems willing to reveal a lot more of his intentions than is necessary... assuming that that isn't a "story" too.

IMO, it's just an unfortunate situation for most of the parties involved... one that, although the vendor seems to be trying to make "right", may not be good enough... and whether it was worth the extra couple hundred bux remains to be seen.


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## Demented (Nov 7, 2006)

jinny said:


> I know I'm in the minority here...


Very good post!

Can't we just, Eschew obfuscation?

Dmntd


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## JohnnyFlake (May 31, 2006)

Personally, I don't care if the vendor is a member of this club or not. I'd like to know who he is, as I would like to avoid doing business with him. That is truly an unethical thing to do to anyone, and especially so, to another member of this club!:gn :hn 

Johnny


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## Ivory Tower (Nov 18, 2005)

jinny said:


> this situation is more a customer relations and ethical issue rather than an actual "business" issue... I would be willing to bet that trying to get some sort of compensation thru small claims court would be a waste of time and a complaint to the local BB could be tarnishing an otherwise good local business.


That's probably not correct, as the vendor has made admissions that prove discdog's case fairly clearly. Further a record of the transactions involved would not be hard to reproduce.

An "otherwise good local business" strongly implies that they are not good in some respects and should be reported to the BBB!



> I don't begrudge a vendor for holding out for the best price. Vendors do it all the time...


However, sometimes it's ethically and legally wrong, as in this case apparently.



> in the case of this vendor, they didn't charge the card... so no payment was actually taken...


Payment doesn't have to be taken to form a binding contract.



> the fact that they waited to charge the card suggests to me that the supply was tentative... on items that are truly rare, I wouldn't consider it mine till I have it in hand...


Supply wasn't tentative when the vendor expressly agreed to sell the 1/500 edition.



> IMO, it's just an unfortunate situation for most of the parties involved... one that, although the vendor seems to be trying to make "right", may not be good enough... and whether it was worth the extra couple hundred bux remains to be seen.


See previous post: Bad ethics, bad deal.


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## jinny (Sep 30, 2006)

Demented said:


> Can't we just, Eschew obfuscation?


sure... maybe... yes... probably not...


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## JohnnyFlake (May 31, 2006)

Maybe I missed it, but I still cannot figure out who the vendor is and to be honest, I do not know which other board or group is being referred to. I would really like to know the ID of the vendor in question and I would love to know about the other board that was referred to over and over.

Johnny


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## TU09 (Mar 26, 2006)

wharfrathoss said:


> i believe everyoner deserveds a 2nd chance, especially if it*might *have been an honest mistake/miscomunication-i debated posting (since this is literally my 1st post) but here's my opinion fwiw-it doesn't sound like it happend on purpose, so give him the chance to show what type of guy he is by attempting to make it right-if he don't, out him


Mistake / miscommunication doesn't matter. Dealing with the headaches of a small business on a daily basis I can assure you, the owner is responsible for all the actions of his employees if for no other reason than he hired them. If the vendors response is accurate, which I have no reason to doubt at this point, he is still at fault. The fact that he tried to make it right helps but it was too late and the second offer, the offer to sell it at cost, was not customer service but an attempt to save his reputation. :2


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## fireman43 (Oct 15, 2006)

RGD said:


> As far as I am concerned - once the credit card info was exchanged the humidor was yours. Re-selling the item amounts to a liar and thief in my book. Tar and feather would be too good in this situation - pisses me off, greedy bastard.
> 
> Ron


I will agree wholeheratedly with RGD on this. Once he took your credit card info, the deal was sealed IMO. Just my:2


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## hornitosmonster (Sep 5, 2006)

Ouch. Hope that profit was good enough to cover his loss of business. NOT!!

Thank Al Gore for the internet..that way we can stay away for crooks!!


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## jinny (Sep 30, 2006)

Ivory Tower said:


> That's probably not correct, as the vendor has made admissions that prove discdog's case fairly clearly. Further a record of the transactions involved would not be hard to reproduce.


 I won't try to predict an outcome of a hypothetical small claims case... any case can be won or lost based numerous things. and I didn't read the other linked thread... I was speaking in generalities and playing devil's advocate in a situation where some parties involed are not well represented at this time here in this thread. I would think that the vendor in question would not go to small claims court unprepared so while I wouldn't say impossible, winning would be difficult.



Ivory Tower said:


> An "otherwise good local business" strongly implies that they are not good in some respects and should be reported to the BBB!


 I was trying to imply that given the situation that ANY business would have done the same... and if not, it could be indicative of a business that wouldn't survive very long. although, another business may have been better at dealing with the situation... again, the vendor hasn't been here to defend themselves and that isn't necessarily an admission of guilt or impropriety. Perhaps ultimately this vendor deserves all that is coming to them. but if the problem is that they made the mistake of being more honest of the situation that occurred than other vendors given the same situation, then I wouldn't be so quick to ding them.



Ivory Tower said:


> However, sometimes it's and legally wrong, as in this case apparently.


I don't know enough about the situation to make a judgment about the legality... the only thing I am comfortable in saying at this time is that, ethically, it appears questionable.



Ivory Tower said:


> Payment doesn't have to be taken to form a binding contract.


 sure that is true, but in this case it doesn't matter... to what extent the contract is enforceable was probably not negotiated...a nd it really doesn't matter simply for the fact that the item no longer exists for the parties involved... therefore, regardless of what contract was made, it just sucks.



Ivory Tower said:


> Supply wasn't tentative when the vendor expressly agreed to sell the 1/500 edition.


 this probably runs into the realm of opinion... as an owner of a business with an import/export wing, I have made plenty of deals where I have been certain of supply that eventually disappeared... sometimes it's an "act of God", sometimes I was just comforted by a good story from the supplier... sometimes I've had to prepay for this supply that failed to materialize... and sometimes, I've had to take a financial hit for it as well... as a rule, I assume is always tentative until I have it in hand... and I was speculating that the vendor assumed the same because he did not charge the credit card... always with the assumtion that until he ships it, he can't be 100% sure... and even after shipping, it's not 100%... but the vendor's responsibility is greatly diminished.



Ivory Tower said:


> See previous post: Bad ethics, bad deal.


yes. agreed


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## TU09 (Mar 26, 2006)

jinny said:


> I was trying to imply that given the situation that ANY business would have done the same... and if not, it could be indicative of a business that wouldn't survive very long.


:BS :BS :BS

I sincerely hope I never have an occassion to do business with you. My small businesses are all focused on hospitality and realestate/construction and I can assure you, while I might bump up my margin a bit by screwing a customer once, I would lose valuable repeat business and referals and this applies both to my corporate and private clients.


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## ATLHARP (May 3, 2005)

RJT said:


> If that is the way it went down it is simply BAD BUSINESS. I would not shop with them again. Sorry you had that happen. RJT


:tpd:

I concur, this is a very bad business type of deal. If this vendor does business on the board this incident should be added to either his/her transaction rating or user notes. He should held up for public ridicule.......:2

ATL


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## punch (Mar 5, 2005)

I like it. Screw a guy out of a done deal for more profit, and then offer to sell him something else "at cost". Sleeeeeeeezzzzzzzyyyyyyyyyyyyyy. I almost want to take a shower after reading this thread. I think that for the first time, this curmudgeon has to agree with everyone here, except Jinny.

Very sorry for your loss, DiscDog. You handled it with class. If this vendor has an internet site, I'd like to know so that I don't do business there myself.


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## livwire68 (Oct 2, 2006)

I have been just kicking back and reading since it has started. All I can say is I wont be doing business with them and I am glad to know about their ethics. I am real big on that and how I am treated by the people I do business with. Sorry to hear about you situation!


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## snowy (Nov 22, 2006)

jinny said:


> I was trying to imply that given the situation that ANY business would have done the same... and if not, it could be indicative of a business that wouldn't survive very long. although, another business may have been better at dealing with the situation... again, the vendor hasn't been here to defend themselves and that isn't necessarily an admission of guilt or impropriety. Perhaps ultimately this vendor deserves all that is coming to them. but if the problem is that they made the mistake of being more honest of the situation that occurred than other vendors given the same situation, then I wouldn't be so quick to ding them.


Jinny,

I think you are giving this vendor too much credit. No self respecting businessman would tell a customer that he just sold the product that was sold to you for more money. That is just foolish and idiotic. Even if the vendor sold the product for more money to another customer he could have made many excuses to the original buyer not to piss him off. I think the vendor misread DD. The vendor probably thought that he could start a bidding war on the product....


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## RGD (May 10, 2006)

JohnnyFlake said:


> Maybe I missed it, but I still cannot figure out . . .


Post number 40 for those that missed it.

Looks like everything has been settled out between the two parties.

Ron


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## jinny (Sep 30, 2006)

TU09 said:


> :BS :BS :BS
> 
> I sincerely hope I never have an occassion to do business with you. My small businesses are all focused on hospitality and realestate/construction and I can assure you, while I might bump up my margin a bit by screwing a customer once, I would lose valuable repeat business and referals and this applies both to my corporate and private clients.


sorry, maybe I'm being too honest... I should try to be more clear... first I should separate out one of the suppositions... namely that the vendor deliberately reneged on the deal... which I do not believe he has admitted to, nor has it actually been proven to have occurred... at least not proven to me... yet. in retrospect I admit it is somewhat unclear, but I meant that given the circumstance that the vendor believed that he had held the item for sale, but it was sold for a higher amount by another party, was understandable for the vendor to enter in the agreement with the customer... the problem there would be his relationship with the other party for reneging on the agreement to hold the item for the vendor; however, I was also suggesting that this could be a "story" to cover up whatever reason there was for the botched sale. maybe too confusing to state both ideas in one post.

I'd like to clear the air for the benefit of my own reputation. I don't approve of what appears to have happened... but I also don't think a vendor should be subjected to a public hanging without airing their side of the story... and I'm also not suggesting that it shouldn't be discussed either... I appreciate that the original post was very circumspect and mindful in the way such an unpleasant subject was broached.


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## volfan (Jul 15, 2006)

jinny,

I understand your point and if said vendor would have posted something here he would have kept a little credibility with me. He is a member and has chosen not to post anything here. This shows me that the vendor does not care what CS thinks. Just my opinion though.

scottie


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## ComicBookFreak (Sep 7, 2005)

Unacceptable. He will never get my business. 

CBF:w


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## jinny (Sep 30, 2006)

snowy said:


> Jinny,
> 
> I think you are giving this vendor too much credit. No self respecting businessman would tell a customer that he just sold the product that was sold to you for more money. That is just foolish and idiotic. Even if the vendor sold the product for more money to another customer he could have made many excuses to the original buyer not to piss him off. I think the vendor misread DD. The vendor probably thought that he could start a bidding war on the product....


perhaps I am... and that's an idea I was trying to suggest... but perhaps I 
bumbled the point.. the vendor shouldn't have intimated that this had occurred... it's such a fine line... if they were fishing to get a better price then that really sucks... if they were trying to be honest by detailing the true circumstances of the deal gone awry, then then IMO, they should be applauded... I was merely pointing out the impression I got which was that everyone seems to be assuming the vendor did this malicious/unethical act... which he hasn't been proven to have done... but at the same time point out that I am not surprised if they did... confusing? yes.


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## TU09 (Mar 26, 2006)

jinny said:


> in retrospect I admit it is somewhat unclear, but I meant that given the circumstance that the vendor believed that he had held the item for sale, but it was sold for a higher amount by another party, was understandable for the vendor to enter in the agreement with the customer... the problem there would be his relationship with the other party for reneging on the agreement to hold the item for the vendor; however, I was also suggesting that this could be a "story" to cover up whatever reason there was for the botched sale. maybe too confusing to state both ideas in one post.


The vendor in question owns several stores (4 I believe) and, after makeing the sale and telling his manager to pull the product, it was still sold to another customer for more $. Now, this manager is his employee, from the customer's perspective (the one that counts) the same entity. He is responsible for his manager's actions. It wasn't a matter of his supplier not coming through, it wasn't sold by "another party," his business already had the product in it's posession and reneged on the deal. Whether or not it was deliberate is of no consequence. In business your intentions mean nothing, it is the end result that counts. If nothing else he should have made a few face saving gestures, regardless of the circumstances, rather than informing the customer that it was sold for a higher price to a walk in cusomer. As I am sure you know since you are in business, shit happens but how one handles it is what makes or breaks your reputation.



jinny said:


> I also don't think a vendor should be subjected to a public hanging without airing their side of the story


The vendor in question is a CS member and still has the opportunity to defend himself. Though he has not posted here yet, his side of the story can be found via the link to stogiechat.


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## livwire68 (Oct 2, 2006)

RGD said:


> Post number 40 for those that missed it.
> 
> Looks like everything has been settled out between the two parties.
> 
> Ron


I am not sure how things were settled, other than the vendor was trying to justify his bad ethics. If you mean settled by "I wont be giving them my business again" Then yes it has been settled! I get treated like crap from people who pay me for it weekly, I would not get treated like crap from someone I am paying! In my book a little respect still goes a long way!


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## ResIpsa (Mar 8, 2006)

Can we let this thread die now????


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## jinny (Sep 30, 2006)

At the risk of needlessly digging a deeper hole for myself, I'd like to clear the air.

I was NOT trying to defend the vendor's apparent actions... I was trying to suggest that all businesses have some level of cut-throat-ness (if that is even a word) so it wouldn't surprise me if the vendor DID renege... everybody has their price and maybe a couple hundred bux was his...

BUT from what little I know about this deal, the vendor had been very open about where the item was and the "story" didn't change... the item was not in his control, but he had every reason to believe that he would be able to very quickly bring the item into his control and ultimately send the item to the customer... making a promise under those circumstances is not unreasonable. But things did not go as planned... which is not unheard of... and I don't want to give the vendor too much credit, but perhaps the pause after the first explanation was for another reason... perhaps they were hoping for another resolution that the customer might initiate... perhaps they were distracted... perhaps they were all a wreck from the deal-gone awry... who knows... right now all we have to go by is the impressions of the customer who, by the way, is understandably already upset... that impression being that it seemed like they vendor was fishing for more money... but even that didn't manifest... the customer didn't pursue it so we can't be sure that the vendor was indeed trying for that angle... and now, in retrospect, all the vendor has to do is conveniently deny it.


As difficult as it is to run a small business, I would hate to ruin an the reputation of an otherwise good vendor because of a misunderstanding.

and this thread has not been here long enough to discount the vendor from chiming in at some point. I'm still interested in hearing from him... he's got lots of 'splainin' to do.


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## ResIpsa (Mar 8, 2006)

ResIpsa said:


> Can we let this thread die now????


.............


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## jinny (Sep 30, 2006)

TU09 said:


> The vendor in question owns several stores (4 I believe) and, after makeing the sale and telling his manager to pull the product, it was still sold to another customer for more $. Now, this manager is his employee, from the customer's perspective (the one that counts) the same entity. He is responsible for his manager's actions. It wasn't a matter of his supplier not coming through, it wasn't sold by "another party," his business already had the product in it's posession and reneged on the deal. Whether or not it was deliberate is of no consequence. In business your intentions mean nothing, it is the end result that counts. If nothing else he should have made a few face saving gestures, regardless of the circumstances, rather than informing the customer that it was sold for a higher price to a walk in cusomer. As I am sure you know since you are in business, shit happens but how one handles it is what makes or breaks your reputation...


yeah, that's not sounding that great for the vendor's rep. I may have to turncoat on him soon.


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## ResIpsa (Mar 8, 2006)

jinny said:


> yeah, that's not sounding that great for the vendor's rep. I may have to turncoat on him soon.





ResIpsa said:


> Can we let this thread die now????


apparantly not:r


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## lenguamor (Nov 23, 2006)

ResIpsa said:


> apparantly not:r


:r

.


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## TU09 (Mar 26, 2006)

ResIpsa said:


> Can we let this thread die now????


Tell us what you _really_ think of this thread...


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## discdog (Jun 23, 2006)

jinny said:


> perhaps I am... and that's an idea I was trying to suggest... but perhaps I
> bumbled the point.. the vendor shouldn't have intimated that this had occurred... it's such a fine line... if they were fishing to get a better price then that really sucks... if they were trying to be honest by detailing the true circumstances of the deal gone awry, then then IMO, they should be applauded... I was merely pointing out the impression I got which was that everyone seems to be assuming the vendor did this malicious/unethical act... which he hasn't been proven to have done... but at the same time point out that I am not surprised if they did... confusing? yes.


Jinny I see your point exactly, if I had been told,"Bob, we screwed up and sold your humi to someone else, sorry", I would have been upset but figured an honest mistake had been made. Unfortunately, he said "offered" and to me there is a world of difference. He has not refuted this and in my way of thinking that means it was not a misunderstanding on my part. After I got upset is when I was told it was sold.
The part of all of this that is bad, the guy is very likable. And I felt that if he had just re-worded his statement, none of this would have happened. But he kinda took a "stuff happens - deal with it" attitude that didn't sit well with me, so I felt compelled to take it to the next level.
I really had no idea that it would become this big of a deal, I mean, look here, I don't have 60 posts and there is 5 or 6 pages to this thread. My intent was to warn you guys to be careful, not try to put him out of business.

I feel very strongly about my values and my convictions. That is why I chose not to accept his offer of the other humidor. I think when he extended the deal to anyone on the other board, or I suppose anyone reading this, was truly his way to try to salvage our relationship. But I cannot do this with a clear conscience. But I do accept his apology. That's why I posted that this was done.

I hope this clears somethings up, if not,please post any question and I will try to answer. I plan on spending a lot more time here in the future.


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## ResIpsa (Mar 8, 2006)

TU09 said:


> Tell us what you _really_ think of this thread...


Trust me.......you REALLY do not want to know,


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## livwire68 (Oct 2, 2006)

ResIpsa said:


> Trust me.......you REALLY do not want to know,


Allright just one more time for you! :r


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## jinny (Sep 30, 2006)

discdog said:


> Jinny I see your point exactly, if I had been told,"Bob, we screwed up and sold your humi to someone else, sorry", I would have been upset but figured an honest mistake had been made. Unfortunately, he said "offered" and to me there is a world of difference. He has not refuted this and in my way of thinking that means it was not a misunderstanding on my part. After I got upset is when I was told it was sold.
> The part of all of this that is bad, the guy is very likable. And I felt that if he had just re-worded his statement, none of this would have happened. But he kinda took a "stuff happens - deal with it" attitude that didn't sit well with me, so I felt compelled to take it to the next level.
> I really had no idea that it would become this big of a deal, I mean, look here, I don't have 60 posts and there is 5 or 6 pages to this thread. My intent was to warn you guys to be careful, not try to put him out of business.
> 
> ...


I repeat my appreciation for you initiating this thread. I think it is a great subject to pursue and has potentially great benefits for the members of CS.

personally I have zero stake in the vendor's reputation... even without this thread, I would probably have no real opportunity to patronize them. mainly because of location.

I apologize if my posts appeared to be discounting your experience. I was speaking in hypotheticals and trying to both warn members to be cautious of ALL vendor's practices... and perhaps as a result may have ruined my own reputation here. Oh well.

I'm glad there has been some sort of resolution for you. looking on the bright side of this otherwise dismal cloud, if this incident gets you to be more active in the CS community as well, that seems to be a plus for us.

not to beat that dead horse, but I still wouldn't mind hearing some sort of response from the vendor in question... especially since he is a member here


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## discdog (Jun 23, 2006)

I couldn't presume to speak for him, but if he is half as shocked at how fast this spread across the boards today as I was, he'll probably take a day or so to catch up.
I don't remember where I posted it today but I am still amazed at how small our community is, we may not all be on the same boards, but it's amazing how much we think and act alike. This issue took on a life of it's own and I can honestly say, I was a little intimidated by the whole thing. Usually I'm the thread killer, not the initializer. So this was very different for me.


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## TU09 (Mar 26, 2006)

jinny said:


> ... and perhaps as a result may have ruined my own reputation here.


I don't think so. Civil and sincere conversation will rarely do harm to anyones reputation.



discdog said:


> I plan on spending a lot more time here in the future.


Look forward to reading your future posts!


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## RGD (May 10, 2006)

livwire68 said:


> I am not sure how things were settled, . . .


Vendor made a second offer and an apology - apology was accepted . . .



ResIpsa said:


> Can we let this thread die now????


:r . . . Yep -

Ron


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## punch (Mar 5, 2005)

Jinny,

Don't worry too much about your reputation. Often the people we disagree with the most are the ones we respect the most. How else would some of us stay married for 25 years


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## Cheo Malanga (Apr 4, 2006)

I'm not going to go through as many pages as this thread has.

I just wanted to say that I see a lot of people here going after the vendor without really knowing all the facts (there are 3 sides to every story, in this case the vendor's, the buyer's and the actual truth). I don't think that is very smart nor ethical.

Personally, from knowing Gaby at a personal level and having done business with him and his partners at the Sabor Habana stores I know first hand that they are all great people, and would never try to do anyone wrong.


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## lenguamor (Nov 23, 2006)

Cheo Malanga said:


> I'm not going to go through as many pages as this thread has.
> 
> I just wanted to say that I see a lot of people here going after the vendor without really knowing all the facts (there are 3 sides to every story, in this case the vendor's, the buyer's and the actual truth). I don't think that is very smart nor ethical.
> 
> Personally, from knowing Gaby at a personal level and having done business with him and his partners at the Sabor Habana stores I know first hand that they are all great people, and would never try to do anyone wrong.


Nice character reference.

The facts remain the same.


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