# Crying... can't solve condensation problem in Wineador



## Lartymarf (Aug 23, 2010)

Hi guys!

I'm a long time lurker here, but decided to ask you guys for help.

Yes, I've done searches and read different ways to solve the
condensation issues, but I can't fix it!

It gets up into the 90s F here during the day, so mid 80s F in
my apartment and quite humid. What happens is because the
apartment is rather warm, the wineador kicks ON and starts
to throw in cooler air to maintain the 68-70F temp. When
this happens, the condensation gets pretty serious in the middle
lower part of the back wall inside the wineador and the humidity
tanks to mid 50's %. 

I tried catching the condensation with beads and am using 3 small
fans directly at the beads to wick away the moisture, but it
condenses faster than the fans can blow away the moisture.

In the mean time, I've relocated the wineador to my study where
I keep the AC on all day all night at 70F. But, I think this is going
to kill my electricity bill......... so I want to find a way to cure the
problem so I can leave the AC off during the day.

Anyone have a solution that works to help get rid of the condensation?

I'm thinking of putting all my cigars in zip loc bags and putting
little bags of beads inside the zip loc bag. But then it ain't gonna
look too sexy when I open the wineador door. 

Thanks!
Jimmy


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## Cigar Noob (May 22, 2011)

What type of wine chiller you are using. Compressor or Thermoelectric? 
How much beads are you using?

My hunch is you have a compressor unit. Many folks use a controller to limit how long the compressor will be on, which prevents condensation. May want to look into that.


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## Zogg (Aug 31, 2010)

AC is your only real option for it... they not only will make it a lot cooler for you, but for your cigars. they also tend to dehumidify at the same time


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## Lartymarf (Aug 23, 2010)

Cigar Noob said:


> What type of wine chiller you are using. Compressor or Thermoelectric?
> How much beads are you using?
> 
> My hunch is you have a compressor unit. Many folks use a controller to limit how long the compressor will be on, which prevents condensation. May want to look into that.


Hi Cigar Noob,

Thanks! Let me add more info:

28 bottle count wine frig, Thermoelectric like the vinotemps
2 pounds of HF 65% beads
18-19 boxes of cigars of various sizes
Temp controller set to 69F

The problem I'm facing is the condensation just sucks the
living liquid out of the air! =( If I leave it in my living
room, the tray that catches the liquid will become FULL!
The beads and fans near the drain helps to slow this 
down but doesn't cure the problem.

Thanks!
Jimmy


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## Lartymarf (Aug 23, 2010)

Zogg said:


> AC is your only real option for it... they not only will make it a lot cooler for you, but for your cigars. they also tend to dehumidify at the same time


But my electricity bill..... =( Will probably equate to a couple of
high end Padrons or Cohibas.


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## Cigar Noob (May 22, 2011)

I have a thermoelectric unit and don't have any condensation. I have the 28 bottle VT. I only use maybe half a pound of KL with 12 cigar boxes and a few planks of spanish cedar for shelves.  You may have air circulation issues causing the RH and temp to vary at different areas. 

Have you plugged the drain hole? 
Have you calibrated your hygrometer?
Does the internal fan work?
Where are you taking your temp and RH measurements from?

I live in PHX with highs between 105-115 dairly and keep my inside temp at 77-85 during the day. My unit stays fairly stable at 66-68 throughout the day. It can be done.


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## Lartymarf (Aug 23, 2010)

Cigar Noob said:


> I have a thermoelectric unit and don't have any condensation. I have the 28 bottle VT. I only use maybe half a pound of KL with 12 cigar boxes and a few planks of spanish cedar for shelves. You may have air circulation issues causing the RH and temp to vary at different areas.
> 
> Have you plugged the drain hole?
> Have you calibrated your hygrometer?
> ...


Cigar noob, thanks for the reply!

Yes, the drain hole is plugged. My electronic hydrometers (x3)
are faily accurate to +/-1 and calibrated. The internal
fan of the cooler is working properly.

I'm taking readings at a little above middle and 1/4 from the bottom.
The hydrometers are near the very front near the cooler door.

When your frig is running, are you using the built in thermostat
and relying on the wine cooler itself to maintain the 67 68 F?
Or do you use a separate controller with a temp sensor inside
the frig?

Thanks!
Jimmy


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## Zogg (Aug 31, 2010)

Lartymarf said:


> But my electricity bill..... =( Will probably equate to a couple of
> high end Padrons or Cohibas.


i run a small window A/C 100% of the time on at least low, its low all night then high all day, it added about $12 to my electric bill cause i keep my humi in a small room so i only need a 5000 BTU A/C

i run our other AC in the living room all day and off at night, both only add about $15-20 total to my electric bill, which that vs risking ruining all my cigars = worth it. plus, its obviously more comfortable to live in


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## Cigar Noob (May 22, 2011)

Lartymarf said:


> Cigar noob, thanks for the reply!
> 
> Yes, the drain hole is plugged. My electronic hydrometers (x3)
> are faily accurate to +/-1 and calibrated. The internal
> ...


Here's the thing. From what I've read, humidity rises and different areas of our coolers will have different readings. The issue with temp is that it also rises, but it will be warmer in areas further away from the cooling device if circulation isn't great, or when the fan is off.

To me, it sounds like a circulation issue since you have about double the number of boxes I have in mine, and mine is quite full. When I rearranged my cooler once I made 2 shelves with 3 SC planks each. With that, it made a very small area for air to move up/down. When I switched it back to 3 shelves with 2 planks on each one, the temperature settled back down. I don't know where the thermostat is on these things but if it isn't getting the cold air pushed past it, it won't know when to turn off. The cold air could be restrained in the back, causing it to get colder than you want, and sucking the humidity out. (I'm just brainstorming here)

How densely packed is your cooler?


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## Tman (Sep 12, 2010)

If you read the psychrometric chart, if you want to keep the Wineador at 68degF and the room is at 80degF, the only way you won't get condensation is to have the RH% in your room down to 68%RH or have the beads suck the humidity out better.

Have you considered using desiccant instead of a bead? Dry Kitty Litter might be a cheap alternative. I would also check the seal in your Winedor to make sure the air isn't sneaking in. I'm not really sure why the RH% tanks to 50%RH though. You shouldn't be getting condensation if the humidor is tanking that low.


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## vtxcigar (Nov 25, 2010)

I'm not sure I understand your problem completely, but I've been having 
pretty good luck with 2½ lb of kitty litter in a pan in the bottom of the 
wineador and then I routed the drain back into the wineador through the 
back wall to drain into the kitty litter. When the cooler is cooling, I do see 
the humidity level drop but after it goes off for about a minute, it goes back 
up to my normal level. The water (distilled) is pretty much trapped and has 
to go into the kitty litter, the air inside the wineador or the cigars and wood 
boxes inside the wineador, but it can't escape the system. I got the idea 
from Seasick Sailor, but his pics no longer show.

Good Luck!


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## designwise1 (Aug 17, 2006)

I was having the exact problem until a couple of days ago. I had 80 degrees internal temps and 40 percent RH. I added a room ac unit to my smoking room. Problem solved. Everything settled down--no more wide fluctuations. I have an internal temp of 64 and RH is 65 right now. My AC is set to 73. 

It was 108 degrees here today.

Bill's photos of his drain setup is the way to go. I'm drilling mine immediately to stop the little pool of water on the bottom.

A dehumidifier might help if you want to save on the electric bill but I'd go with an extra AC unit.


Edit: I forgot to mention that I unplugged the wineador for a couple of days to bring the RH to 65. That's when my temperatures rose so high. The central unit in this old house only gets the temps down to about 80 in this heat. Since my wineador cannot be set above 65 (I like mine that cold anyway) it has to change the temp by more than 10 deg. I understand this is one of the main causes. Thus... another AC unit to bring the RH and temp down. Whatever-- it worked for me.


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## ArlinLiss (Jan 1, 2000)

The cooling function removes moisture from the air.

Sounds to me like the ac unit is running so much to achieve the desired temperature in comparison to the ambient temp. The more the ac runs the more condensate will form.

Either increase the ac output [so as to reduce the time the ac runs], increase the insulation [so as to reduce the time the ac runs] decrease the ambient temp or buy one from me [lol]


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## Lartymarf (Aug 23, 2010)

Thank you guys for all your expert advice!

I have purchased 2 big bags of kitty litter crystals and will
try to use that as a means to put the condensation back
into the air. I'll be redoing my wineador this weekend and
will report back.

I'll check on the seal and make sure the drain hole is 100%
sealed. Have also purchased additional fans. Currently using
3 little fans that came with my humidification system, though
I'm only using the fan from the system. 

Thanks again!!

Jimmy


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## socalocmatt (Dec 22, 2010)

I searched over the thread and didn't see a make and model. I saw that its "like" a vinotemp. What 28 bottle wine cooler are you using?


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## Lartymarf (Aug 23, 2010)

socalocmatt said:


> I searched over the thread and didn't see a make and model. I saw that its "like" a vinotemp. What 28 bottle wine cooler are you using?


Hah! Ya, I forgot what brand it is, it's a local chinese brand, not Haier.

It's actually very nice! The front glass is a slight mirror tint so when
I put this thing in the living room you can't really see all the mess and
different boxes inside, it's a clean setup. I'll post some pictures this
weekend.

But, from what I've seen from the pictures posted on this form, my
wineador is no different. Drain hole a the back, but at the bottom.
Peltier in the middle of the back wall with the fan above it. All the
railing on the side look the same.

Thanks!
Jimmy


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## Herf N Turf (Dec 31, 2008)

If you're panicked about your energy bill, I'd also say go with a dehumidifier. In addition, you'll have better luck with a Johnson Controls, or Ranco outboard contoller. They are a lot more accurate and can be set to keep the temp in a much tighter range. This will dramatically reduce condensation since it won't be having to play catch up with the OEM thermostat. You also might try aiming one of your fans directly at the peltier to keep moist air from collecting around it.


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