# St. James Flake - new batch



## Hermit (Aug 5, 2008)

Anybody get any St. James Flake from the new batch?
I just opened a pound package. I was immediately
stuck by the aroma; not what I was expecting. 
While I jarred it up, I smoked a bowl. I don't know 
what happened, if the box was mislabeled or if 
something went wrong at the factory, but it 
definitely contains *Latakia*. Not a lot, but more than
enough to notice. Something definitely went wrong.


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## Diodon nepheligina (Nov 5, 2009)

I got some of that; I'll take a whiff and have a bowl tonight.


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## Diodon nepheligina (Nov 5, 2009)

I just stuck my nose into a jar of my new St. James Flake. And then compared with a jar from last April. No doubt about it. I got some of the latakia laced St. James too. I must not have noticed it when I jarred it up because I had just finished jarring up some Squadron Leader and the whole room smelled of SL. Now that I think about it, it seems RJPuffs had something like this happen to him with St. James Flake a few months ago, though his was tinned not bulk.

St. James Flake buyers beware. 

Thanks for the heads up, Hermit. I was going to let those new jars sit sealed up for a couple years. I'm glad to know now that they are not what I thought they were.


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## Nicolas J. Pug (Apr 21, 2009)

I scored a pound from cupojoes and, knock on wood, mine seems to be pure. Let me qualify my comment by saying that I haven't smoked or sniffed latakia in at least a year, and I only ever had one tin of SJF. I smoked a bowl after reading this alarming thread and mine is as I remembered it to be. I will update after a few bowls if my opinion changes.


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## Mitch (Oct 2, 2009)

Nicolas J. Pug said:


> I scored a pound from cupojoes and, knock on wood, mine seems to be pure. Let me qualify my comment by saying that I haven't smoked or sniffed latakia in at least a year, and I only ever had one tin of SJF. I smoked a bowl after reading this alarming thread and mine is as I remembered it to be. I will update after a few bowls if my opinion changes.


Well, I would doubt you would mix up latakia and perique.


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## Hermit (Aug 5, 2008)

Mitch said:


> Well, I would doubt you would mix up latakia and perique.


Apparently the blender did. :nod:
Mebbie he was drunk.


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## Nicolas J. Pug (Apr 21, 2009)

Hermit said:


> Apparently the blender did. :nod:
> Mebbie he was drunk.


Mebbie he was....I know I am. I don't think I could mistake latakia though. I just don't like the stuff.


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## Mitch (Oct 2, 2009)

Hermit said:


> Apparently the blender did. :nod:
> Mebbie he was drunk.


Lol, he probably has tobacco everywhere. I wonder if they sent you wrong batch.


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## RJpuffs (Jan 27, 2008)

Hermit said:


> Anybody get any St. James Flake from the new batch?
> I just opened a pound package. I was immediately
> stuck by the aroma; not what I was expecting.
> While I jarred it up, I smoked a bowl. I don't know
> ...


Ugh, yes I had that with an old(er) tin of St.J (pre-purple-head). I think I unloaded it on dmkerr :clap2:

Not sure if it was their balkan flake that got into the wrong tin/box, or some idiot poured in latakia instead of perique when blending.


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## CWL (Mar 25, 2010)

Anybody get the SG Navy Flake? I got 8oz in the box and I swear it smells like perique and not latakia.

With SG boxes, the only thing that distinguishes the tobacco inside is one cheap laser-printed sticker.

Perhaps somebody at SG really messed up?


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## VFD421 (Nov 8, 2008)

Hermit said:


> Anybody get any St. James Flake from the new batch?
> I just opened a pound package. I was immediately
> stuck by the aroma; not what I was expecting.
> While I jarred it up, I smoked a bowl. I don't know
> ...


The same happened to me, it is not St James Flake. :dunno:


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## Diodon nepheligina (Nov 5, 2009)

Just smoked a bowl of it. Yep, latakia is there for sure. Not a lot, as Hermit said, but enough to notice it. And as it turns out my wife LOVES the aroma.


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## indigosmoke (Sep 1, 2009)

Wow, the saga continues. Maybe I should crack open the tin of Fire Dance Flake I got in the Lotto. Who knows, it may have FVF or even Stonehaven in it!


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## Hermit (Aug 5, 2008)

New slogan: 
Samuel Gawith - Like a box of chocolates. 
Ya never know what yer gonna get.


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## laloin (Jun 29, 2010)

now you got me worried bout my FDF and FVF boxes heh.
troy


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## Hermit (Aug 5, 2008)

laloin said:


> now you got me worried bout my FDF and FVF boxes heh.
> troy


I bought several pounds of FVF and a pound of BBF.
They are fine (and mighty tasty).
So far, I haven't heard of a problem
with anything but the SJF.


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## MarkC (Jul 4, 2009)

Yeah, the FVF is fine and delicious!


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## VFD421 (Nov 8, 2008)

Hermit said:


> New slogan:
> Samuel Gawith - Like a box of chocolates.
> Ya never know what yer gonna get.


That's a good slogan, I like it. Has anyone figured out what exactly it is yet? Not a fan of latakia so I have no experience with those.

On a side note I had the same thing happen with a couple of tins of Hamborger Veermaster purchased in 2008, won't be buying any of that again.


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## Jack Straw (Nov 20, 2008)

indigosmoke said:


> Wow, the saga continues. Maybe I should crack open the tin of Fire Dance Flake I got in the Lotto. Who knows, it may have FVF or even Stonehaven in it!


:lol:


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## CWL (Mar 25, 2010)

I'm suspecting that SG really dropped the ball when marking their packages. 

In addition to the package of SG Navy Flake smelling of perique and not Latakia, I opened a box of Firedance Flake last night and the contents looked, smelled & smoked more like MVF than Firedance. I happen to have some old Firedance left just for comparison, and the two do not seem similar at all in smell and taste.


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## Diodon nepheligina (Nov 5, 2009)

CWL said:


> I'm suspecting that SG really dropped the ball when marking their packages.
> 
> In addition to the package of SG Navy Flake smelling of perique and not Latakia, I opened a box of Firedance Flake last night and the contents looked, smelled & smoked more like MVF than Firedance. I happen to have some old Firedance left just for comparison, and the two do not seem similar at all in smell and taste.


MVF is not a long pressed flake like Firedance, its a very broken up broken flake and lighter in color as well. How does yours look?

Regardless, you are right, something happened to QC.


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## d_day (Aug 24, 2008)

Man, this does not bode well for SG.

I hope these guys can fix their mistakes and make everyone happy, as well as right the ship for later production.


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## Hermit (Aug 5, 2008)

d_day said:


> Man, this does not bode well for SG.
> 
> I hope these guys can fix their mistakes and make everyone happy, as well as right the ship for later production.


The vendor where I got my "_SJF_" is in touch with SG.
They can either give me a refund or send me some real SJF.
They also need to tell me to do what I please with the "Not SJF." 
It would be pointless to return it. It can't be resold.
Anything less and I'm through with SG. I have enough FVF.

I would be interested in hearing what others' think
about the new batch of FVF. Mine is quite good.


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## MarkC (Jul 4, 2009)

VFD421 said:


> On a side note I had the same thing happen with a couple of tins of Hamborger Veermaster purchased in 2008, won't be buying any of that again.


Yeah, that might have been my favorite tobacco, until I got a couple of bad tins of who knows what. Haven't bought it since. Although it hasn't been around either, so that took zero effort.


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## MarkC (Jul 4, 2009)

Hermit said:


> I would be interested in hearing what others' think
> about the new batch of FVF. Mine is quite good.


I am NOT the world's most experienced FVF smoker; my discovery of FVF was at about the time of the beginnings of "The Great Drought". However, this new batch tastes as good now as the year old tin I was working on, so I'm certainly happy with it.


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## Diodon nepheligina (Nov 5, 2009)

Hermit said:


> The vendor where I got my "_SJF_" is in touch with SG.
> They can either give me a refund or send me some real SJF.
> They also need to tell me to do what I please with the "Not SJF."
> It would be pointless to return it. It can't be resold.
> ...


Where did you get yours? Mine came from cupojoes. I wonder if there was a single case or few cases with altered SJF or if the issue is more widespread among the whole shipment that came in.


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## Fritzchen (Nov 18, 2009)

Good Evening,

I ordered a pound of 'St. James Flake' from PayLess Pipes and Tobacco. I had never ordered anything from them before. Having missed out everywhere else (was on business travel that week and arrived late for the party) I placed my order with them. They were the last ones I could find who still had any St. James.

Good Service and quick shipment, by the way...

However, shortly before the shipment arrived, I read this thread with a sense of impending doom.

Sure enough; I also received a pound of _'St. Latakia Flake.'_

Also bought some tins of St. James that suddenly showed up at Cup o Joes about a month or so ago. I hope they are not tainted also. Am long latakia and somewhat short on perique in my stocks.


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## CWL (Mar 25, 2010)

Anybody besides me order SG Navy Flake? I'd like to confirm if it is only me that got the Perique Flake.


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## Fritzchen (Nov 18, 2009)

CWL said:


> Anybody besides me order SG Navy Flake? I'd like to confirm if it is only me that got the Perique Flake.


Received 2 lbs total of 'Navy Flake' from 2 different vendors.

Smelled nothing out of the ordinary during transfer to the Mason jars.

Held back a sample from one of the boxes and smoked it on the weekend.

Navy Flake: no doubts.


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## Diodon nepheligina (Nov 5, 2009)

Fritzchen said:


> Received 2 lbs total of 'Navy Flake' from 2 different vendors.
> 
> Smelled nothing out of the ordinary during transfer to the Mason jars.
> 
> ...


I've never had Navy Flake so I have no point of reference for the sample I smoked from this batch of SJF. Sounds like you may know Navy Flake rather well. Is there any chance yours is simply Navy Flake wrapped up in the wrong box?


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## Fritzchen (Nov 18, 2009)

Diodon nepheligina said:


> I've never had Navy Flake so I have no point of reference for the sample I smoked from this batch of SJF. Sounds like you may know Navy Flake rather well. Is there any chance yours is simply Navy Flake wrapped up in the wrong box?


No chance. To my tastes and senses anyway, 'Navy Flake' is very balanced in its tin aroma and in the smoke. The VA's, Latakia, and rum do not overpower one another. All three elements are right there.

I kept smelling this 'St. Latakia Flake' before jarring it up, inhaling deeply to see if I could get past the heavy Latakia aroma to sense if there was any Perique hiding in the background (blending error.)

I never could be certain if there was anything else there: the Latakia was that strong / overpowering. In the end, I just jarred it up and figured I could give the jars dirty looks for the next couple of years.

My gut tells me it is probably 'Balkan Flake,' which is said to be just VA and Latakia; but I have never tried it so I cannot be sure. I will find out some day; that much is certain.


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## CWL (Mar 25, 2010)

Here's a couple of cellphone pictures of the new Firedance Flake I received. Whatever it is, it isn't "Firedance Flake" as I've bought FF twice before and can recognize the real stuff v. this stuff. 

The first one is the new Firedance Flake compared to a box of Medium Virginia Flake I had also recently purchased. The new Firedance crumbles like broken flake and won't hold its shape, and while there are some color differences, the 2 smell the same. Both being dry and "fluffy" in composition. MVF on left, FF on right.



Here the stack on the left is Firedance Flake I have from before v. picture of the new FF on the right. The two are different in color, density, texture, moisture level, smell, everything. You can even see some crystalizing of the VA in the older FF.


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## Hermit (Aug 5, 2008)

Diodon nepheligina said:


> Where did you get yours? Mine came from cupojoes. I wonder if there was a single case or few cases with altered SJF or if the issue is more widespread among the whole shipment that came in.


4noggins


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## VFD421 (Nov 8, 2008)

Hermit said:


> 4noggins


Ditto


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## Hermit (Aug 5, 2008)

Hermit said:


> The vendor where I got my "_SJF_" is in touch with SG.
> They can either give me a refund or send me some real SJF.
> They also need to tell me to do what I please with the "Not SJF."
> It would be pointless to return it. It can't be resold.
> ...


I've been instructed to return the "not SJF."
This is pointless; it can't be resold.
SG should have replaced or refunded the "not SJF,"
and told customers to do whatever they wanted with it.
I'm sending it back, but I'm miffed at the inconvenience.
I don't care; I don't really want it, but since I have
sufficient quantity of FVF put away, I'm through with SG.


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## ultramag (Aug 23, 2007)

Hermit said:


> I've been instructed to return the "not SJF."
> This is pointless; it can't be resold.
> SG should have replaced or refunded the "not SJF,"
> and told customers to do whatever they wanted with it.
> ...


It'll be interesting to see what comes of mine as well. I was backordered at P&C from 6 or 7 months ago and just got a nice charge to the bank account one day. No shipping email notification, tracking, or anything normal to the way they usually do business then one day some latakia laced SJF showed up on the door step. I jarred it all as usual thinking it smelled kinda odd. It was a little wet so I didn't smoke any right away but did 2 or 3 hours later then realized what a problem we had. I haven't called yet because I really am not looking forward to jacking with this. I'm kinda in the same boat, I've got enough of this stuff around and would really just as soon have my money back and be done with all of this crap until everybody can get their business lined out again. I'm just fed up with how it's been going the last year or so and there are just too many less irritating but just as good options available anymore. :anim_soapbox:


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## VFD421 (Nov 8, 2008)

I sent a message to SG and received this reply on Monday:

"we are most surprised to hear this. Occasionally errors occur and we hope this IS an isolated incident. Unfortunately we are prohibited by the US FDA from sending you a replacement so I have forwarded your comment to our distributor in the hope that they contact you.
Again our sincere apologies"

No one has contacted me as of yet, still waiting to hear from the vendor though.

To me SG is no longer worth my time or trouble. Sure am glad this was bulk and not tins.


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## ultramag (Aug 23, 2007)

Hermit said:


> I've been instructed to return the "not SJF."
> This is pointless; it can't be resold.
> SG should have replaced or refunded the "not SJF,"
> and told customers to do whatever they wanted with it.
> ...


Received the same instructions from the crew at P&C in New York. While I agree it's not much use to anyone I do kind of see their reason given for wanting it back. They're wanting to assure they get refunded the same as I do and don't want to end up being the ones holding the bag so to speak. They agreed to full refund, cancelled backorder, and paying for return shipping so I guess I can live with it.


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## VFD421 (Nov 8, 2008)

The same instructions arrived for myself. Will package it up tonight and send it out tomorrow. A bit of a pain but it's being made right so I can't complain. hwell:


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## nate560 (Nov 13, 2008)

My gut tells me it is probably 'Balkan Flake,' which is said to be just VA and Latakia; but I have never tried it so I cannot be sure. I will find out some day; that much is certain.[/QUOTE]

The SJF that I got just smelled of burnt something I have a few S&G blends Sams, FVF, SJF, Balkan Flake and Choc Flake and to my nose its none of these. The Balkan flake I have has a much different smell. So I sent it back today. I would never have smoked it so no big deal to send it back.


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## Diodon nepheligina (Nov 5, 2009)

I had a couple of backordered Gawith items with cupojoes. After this snafu, I contacted them to cancel the backorder since I just didn't want to end up with more mystery flake. I explained the problem with the pound of SJF I had received and that I did not want it and would likely never smoke it. Here is their reply:

"Thank you for your email. I am sorry to hear about your troubles with the Gawith tobacco. We will cancel the backorders you have indicated. Please let me know if you have any other questions or need anything else in the future."

No offer to take it back or swap it out. Just a 'sorry to hear that'. I could have pushed for it but wanted to see how they would handle a customers problem without being pushed. Sure doesn't make me want to do business with them again.


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## Mitch (Oct 2, 2009)

Diodon nepheligina said:


> I had a couple of backordered Gawith items with cupojoes. After this snafu, I contacted them to cancel the backorder since I just didn't want to end up with more mystery flake. I explained the problem with the pound of SJF I had received and that I did not want it and would likely never smoke it. Here is their reply:
> 
> "Thank you for your email. I am sorry to hear about your troubles with the Gawith tobacco. We will cancel the backorders you have indicated. Please let me know if you have any other questions or need anything else in the future."
> 
> No offer to take it back or swap it out. Just a 'sorry to hear that'. I could have pushed for it but wanted to see how they would handle a customers problem without being pushed. Sure doesn't make me want to do business with them again.


I think you should have asked.

this is getting nit picky to me. Would have it been so hard to just ask for a refund. People who expect things without asking for them are the hardest to work with anyway.


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## Diodon nepheligina (Nov 5, 2009)

Mitch said:


> I think you should have asked.
> 
> this is getting nit picky to me. Would have it been so hard to just ask for a refund. People who expect things without asking for them are the hardest to work with anyway.


Maybe so. If I go out to dinner and order a steak and the waiter brings an undercooked porkchop, I do expect it to be taken off the bill without me having to ask for it.


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## MarkC (Jul 4, 2009)

I see nothing wrong with TJ's approach; it's reveals something about Cup O' Joes. However, I'd send a follow up along the lines of "well, yeah, now that you mention it, you can give me my m*****f****** money back..."


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## Hermit (Aug 5, 2008)

Diodon nepheligina said:


> I had a couple of backordered Gawith items with cupojoes. After this snafu, I contacted them to cancel the backorder since I just didn't want to end up with more mystery flake. I explained the problem with the pound of SJF I had received and that I did not want it and would likely never smoke it. Here is their reply:
> 
> "Thank you for your email. I am sorry to hear about your troubles with the Gawith tobacco. We will cancel the backorders you have indicated. Please let me know if you have any other questions or need anything else in the future."
> 
> No offer to take it back or swap it out. Just a 'sorry to hear that'. I could have pushed for it but wanted to see how they would handle a customers problem without being pushed. Sure doesn't make me want to do business with them again.


That's really lame.
It's no skin off COJ's teeth, the
distributor is refunding vendors.


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## Nicolas J. Pug (Apr 21, 2009)

Update: mine's tainted too. I smoked the first two bowls in a newly acquired estate Caminetto and attributed the "off" taste to the pipe. Then I smoked a bowl in a dedicated VaPer pipe and the trace of latakia became noticeable.

Personally, I don't think it is mis-labelled Balkan Flake. I have smoked that before, and it had a casing that I didn't detect in this. I think, as some have suggested, that somebody put latakia where the perique was supposed to go.

I haven't decide what to do with it. I may drop some on a couple of cig smoking buddies that I have been trying to win over, along with several other things I have going their way. It doesn't ease my disappointment, but whatever it is, I wouldn't call it a bad smoke.


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## bpgoldman (Jul 16, 2010)

Hermit said:


> Anybody get any St. James Flake from the new batch?
> I just opened a pound package. I was immediately
> stuck by the aroma; not what I was expecting.
> While I jarred it up, I smoked a bowl. I don't know
> ...


I haven't gotten any of the new batch of SJF, but a similar thing happened to me a couple of years ago with some tins of it. I hope this is not a trend, but with the recent availability problems of SG, I've been trying out Gawith & Hoggarth, and they've become my favorites. Their quality control is much better, and the quality of the leaf is as good if not better than SG.


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## zunismoke (Oct 25, 2010)

nate560 said:


> My gut tells me it is probably 'Balkan Flake,' which is said to be just VA and Latakia; but I have never tried it so I cannot be sure. I will find out some day; that much is certain.


The SJF that I got just smelled of burnt something I have a few S&G blends Sams, FVF, SJF, Balkan Flake and Choc Flake and to my nose its none of these. The Balkan flake I have has a much different smell. So I sent it back today. I would never have smoked it so no big deal to send it back.[/QUOTE]

From what I am reading here it sounds like you guys might have been sent SG Navy Flake. It has some Latakia in it, not a lot. I could not even identify the Lat. when I smoked Navy Flake. Did notice that it tasted a lot better than straight Virg. Flake.


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## Hermit (Aug 5, 2008)

I returned the "Not SJF" to 4noggins.
While 4noggins was *not *at fault, Rich refunded my 
purchase price *and *reimbursed my return postage. 
I placed a replacement order that is on the way. 
*Top notch customer service!* :tu


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## SmoknTaz (Jun 18, 2008)

Hermit said:


> I returned the "Not SJF" to 4noggins.
> While 4noggins was *not *at fault, Rich refunded my
> purchase price *and *reimbursed my return postage.
> I placed a replacement order that is on the way.
> *Top notch customer service!* :tu


Good to hear! I've always been happy with the service at 4nogs


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## VFD421 (Nov 8, 2008)

Hermit said:


> I returned the "Not SJF" to 4noggins.
> While 4noggins was *not *at fault, Rich refunded my
> purchase price *and *reimbursed my return postage.
> I placed a replacement order that is on the way.
> *Top notch customer service!* :tu


4noggins took care of my batch of "Not SJF" too. I am also pleased with their customer service.


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