# Another real or fake?



## MoTheMan (May 24, 2003)

Last weekend I was gifted a couple of cigars, Cohiba 35th Anniversery edition. Here's what one looks like (next to the LE). Anyone seen one like this before?

Like I said before, there appears to be a rash of counterfeits making their way in the Baltimore area. Honestly, when I thought of putting this in a string, I couldn't decide if I should put it in the Habanos Lounge or in Jokes.

Anyhow, I couldn't resist dissecting this thing out. Although the quality of tobacco wasn't bad, it wasn't that good eother. Had the distinct pungency of Mexican grown tobacco (much like what you'll find in a Te Amo or Cruz Real). Well, I still have the second cigar which I may light up just so I can cliam the notch for the experience of it. If anything interesting turns up on it, I'll be posting it. Otherwise I wouldn't expect anything much.

MoTheMan


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## Fredster (Jan 26, 2004)

MO.
You were right the cigar is fake. For Cohibas 30th Ann. they made a ceramic humijar containing 25 Siglo V with special bands. It is a Dalias size cigar 6 3/4X 43 ring guage, they did not make any other cigars for the 30 th Ann. You can see the jar on agedcubans.com website. Click on limited editions on the left side menu. For the 35th ann. they made a humidor containing 35 Lanceros,20 Siglo V,20 pyramids,and 20 Esplendidos. Again this is for 35th not 30th. It goes for about 10,000.00.


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## Matt R (Dec 12, 1997)

Faker than the three dollar bill I bought my Big Mac with yesterday.


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## poker (Dec 11, 1997)

They got even Matt. That Big Mac had fake cheese LOL


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## robmcd (Apr 9, 2002)

i knew you ate big macs matt... disgusting. i broke up with a girl because she used to eat big macs... so to speak:


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## robmcd (Apr 9, 2002)

butt seriously- i can't believe the extent of the counterfeit cuban enterprise. what i can't understand is how they keep finding new people to sucker.. i don't see how there can be repeat customers. if you smoked a fake cuban, you'd say it tastes like crap and you wouldn't buy more.


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## Ganz (Nov 23, 2003)

You may have broke it off, but Ronald seems to be happy...


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## Matt R (Dec 12, 1997)

robmcd said:


> *butt seriously- i can't believe the extent of the counterfeit cuban enterprise. what i can't understand is how they keep finding new people to sucker.. i don't see how there can be repeat customers. if you smoked a fake cuban, you'd say it tastes like crap and you wouldn't buy more. *


 Just wait until the embargo is lifted, they will be even more plentiful!!

Poker, I thought the cheese on a Big Mac was already fake?? LMAO!


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## Fredster (Jan 26, 2004)

Rob
That pictures hilarius, I've got to show that to some of my fellow McD's owners.


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## Pablo (Oct 13, 1997)

I don't know about the rest of you folk, but that fake band looks like a blatant ripoff of the legit 35th Anniversary Cohiba's!


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## robmcd (Apr 9, 2002)

Matt R said:


> *Just wait until the embargo is lifted, they will be even more plentiful!!
> *


zactly my point... embargo lifted => new blood. so where's the new blood now?

at the mafia shop in youngstown they have an entire wall of fake cubans in their humidor and clearly these are mass produced. i'm thinking, who are the return customers?? you might buy one, but it will taste like crap and you won't buy more. who are the idiots who are going to keep buying crap cigars just because they're supposed to be cuban??? where do they live?


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## Matt R (Dec 12, 1997)

Actually Paul, that is the 30th Anniversary band. The 35th band was fashioned off of it.


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## MoTheMan (May 24, 2003)

*???*

OMG Dave. That Ronald McDonald picture had me ROFLMAO.

Got vindicated yesterday when I got a call from one of the local herfs who also picked up one of those "30th Anniversaries" last weekend. He asked me if it was fake as he couldn't find a picture of it in any book. Well, duh!! Actually, I wasn't that rude, but let him know that Cohiba brand never made a cigar that size as far as anyone knows. Well, he vindicated me, and told me I was right to stand my ground when it seemed that everyone around me was just buying all the fakes they could find. I keep saying it, Greed & Stupidity, that's what keeps them coming back.

MoTheMan


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## hogg (Oct 13, 2003)

Why all the return customers? Lack of experience, IMO also indicative of smoking considered as a 'trendy' activity, not a hobby (or collectible, or obsession, depending on which family member you ask).

How can we put it upon them to know better?! They're not a cigar _Smoker_, they're an _A-fishyanada_  Just put a smoke in their hand that's palatable and they're none the wiser. Maybe in time they will actually become interested in what they are shoving in their mouths, but chances are they won't (and I'll save my breath for people who care). It's unfortunate to share the same activity, but this is common in all areas of life, not just cigar smoking. There are newbies for ev-ry-thing.

I'm very biased, I come from the school that starts at the bottom and works up. I've smoked a lot of crappy cigars in my time. And I don't mean a 'Oh yeah I've tried that', I mean boxes and boxes of stuff developing tastes and style in the process. I'm sure I owe some of my Habanos appreciation to Honduran floor sweepings and bundles and bundles of different profiles.

These return customers? I jus' can't relate. It's like going to the movies with a soap opera buff.

Eck/sorry. what was the question?

Yessir, dog eat dog, get 'em while thair hot.


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## MoTheMan (May 24, 2003)

Well said hogg.

Yes, I too have had bundles and bundles of so-so and crappy cigars.

I've also had many, many counterfiet (& non-brand) Cubans. Some have been gems, but most have been absolute dog rockets. 

I saying, around here, just how many crappy counterfeits people are going to smoke until they say "enough" and move on to better stuff.

BTW, there are also SEVERAL MC Millenium Jars that surfaced around here. I'vesmoked one cigar . . . had flavor, but not nearly the real thing or as good. It's APPEARANCE was good, the cigar band, excellent reproduction, but the first look just appeared too good. And if it's too good to be true, then it probably is.

MoTheMan


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## poker (Dec 11, 1997)

Mo, folks get taken by fakes for a few reasons...

1) they dont know any better
2) thinking it says Havana on it so it has to be real
3) believeing a friend who they "think" is more experienced
4) the idea of showing off to their friends they have 'Havana' cigars is more important than the quality of the cigar itself.


I saw a guy once who was smoking fake Cohibas at a local cigar lounge that no longer exists (The old Big Easy in Westwood). He gifted me one, and I told him I would save it for a special day to be nice.
The one he was smoking smelled like crap and it was obvious he wasnt enjoying it, but the thought of being seen with a cigar with a Cohiba band wrapped on it was more important to him.


One thing you'll notice is that those that fall into catagory 4 will rarely buy cabinet cigars. Why? No bands to show off.


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## Fredster (Jan 26, 2004)

Poker,
I know a guy that fits the #4. He gets all Habanos for the same price from this guy..150.00/box. I told him (nicely) that Esplendidos cost about $400.00 if you buy them in Cuba, and thats the cheapest youll find them. I've also tasted some of his cigars they all taste exactly the same! Not horrible, but not even as good as a premium Dom. Here in Florida there are fakes everywhere. The sad thing is this guy is a millionair and I have given him the real thing to try. I think deep down he knows they are fake, but just wants to show that he's smoking a Cuban in public and the price is cheap.


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## poker (Dec 11, 1997)

Sounds like this place (which is a joke)

http://www.cigarmaker.com/default2.asp


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## MoTheMan (May 24, 2003)

Yeah! Got a friend who fits into category 4.
Makes great money (a lot more than me) and can afford anything he wants. Just seems to buy these, not so good looking or good smoking, cheaper, fake Havanas that sell for $250/box no matter what you're buying.
I just don't get it.

MoTheMan


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## cigar mark (Jan 31, 2004)

yeah seems as though i was the culprit of some bullshit so upon investigating this, i had to send back the 4 jars. however i get boxes after boxes and seem to enjoy every one. what do we smoke for the enjoyment or to be ripped off. however every box i get looks real, tastes excellent and is real. lets see go to cuba watch your cigar rolled then u know for fact its real. keep in mind buying off the net is not gaurenteed . sights will tell u authenticity comes from knowing the taste and smell. thats what most of your connesseurs will tell u.


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## cigar mark (Jan 31, 2004)

point of information here again for you all had a mutual friend over last night not familar with whats going on but hangs out with us. never brought this conversation up about the fake 30th anniversary jars but i do admit something was wrong from the get go i have nothing to hide and im as honest as i can be. lets get on with it. he had no sticks , so out of curiousity i gave him a stick took the band off ask for his opinion . now he"s very reputable and he was baffled about how well the taste the unconsitent changes of flavor that filled that stick mo is showing and so did others well faked out what a shame unbelievable cigar for a fake know one thing mexico don"t produce something like that. smoke all over the world baby.u http://www.clubstogie.com/vb/newreply.php?s=&action=newreply&threadid=4616#
http://www.clubstogie.com/vb/newreply.php?s=&action=newreply&threadid=4616#


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## Matt R (Dec 12, 1997)

If someone likes a cigar then more power to them. But, to continue to support the counterfeiters is stupid, for lack of a better term. It's stealing, bottom line, and it's wrong.


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## poker (Dec 11, 1997)

Matt R said:


> *...to continue to support the counterfeiters is stupid, for lack of a better term.*


I agree 100%

In my mind, if someone knowingly buys fake cigars with the intent to turn a profit by selling them, they are nothing more than petty con artists.

There are too many reputable sources overseas that I trust, and a few that I dont. 
There are *zero* sources here in the USA I trust.

Also, authenticity IMHO is judged by many things in combination including "experience".


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## Brandon (Dec 11, 1997)

poker said:


> *
> There are zero sources here in the USA I trust.
> 
> *


So are you saying that you wouldn't buy any RAGs from Flipflop's supplier out of Miami?


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## hogg (Oct 13, 2003)

Brandon said:


> *So are you saying that you wouldn't buy any RAGs from Flipflop's supplier out of Miami? *


I guess my Colin Kelly fan club T-shirt is worthless then...


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## MoTheMan (May 24, 2003)

What Poker said,
*In my mind, if someone knowingly buys fake cigars with the intent to turn a profit by selling them, they are nothing more than petty con artists.

There are too many reputable sources overseas that I trust, and a few that I dont. 
There are zero sources here in the USA I trust.*

What MattR said,
*If someone likes a cigar then more power to them. But, to continue to support the counterfeiters is stupid, for lack of a better term. It's stealing, bottom line, and it's wrong.*

Why anyone's too lazy to do a little research (CA, Smoke Magazine, ASC) to get to know the facts, and know well what they're buying. I just don't get it. Life's too short not to try to get the best you can (I'm not talking extravagant, but discriminating and looking for value), and savoring those few really special moments. If you're telling yourself that something is what it isn't, you are the one who's cheating yourself of the best that life has to offer.

Oh, and BTW, what I said earlier, *Got a friend who fits into category 4.
Makes great money (a lot more than me) and can afford anything he wants. Just seems to buy these, not so good looking or good smoking, cheaper, fake Havanas that sell for $250/box no matter what you're buying.
I just don't get it.*
Well, just relax all you Baltimore herfs, none of you know him. He doesn't even visit CS. 
Are you out there Mr. K? . . . . . . . Didn't think so.

MoTHeMan


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## cigar mark (Jan 31, 2004)

still not sure these are all counterfieters would like some more proof any suggestions mo the man. point was taken very well just be assured it has nothing to do with money. i make way to much for that........................................................


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## MoTheMan (May 24, 2003)

Cigar Mark,

If you want to talk, there's a lot of information to know about how to tell authentic cuban cigars from fake ones. It takes more than the date code (which BTW is two digit not four digit, i.e. Feb *03* and not Feb *2003*) on a box, more than seeing the UV watermark on the cuban seal or the Habanos sticker in the upper right corner of a box.

There are lots of subtleties to Havanas that one will pick up after many, many hundreds smoked. These subtlties include the feel of the wrapper, the aroma or scent of the unsmoked cigar, the general "look" or "appearance" of the cigar, the presentation and appearance of a just opened box. Also the color, the feel, the tightness of the cigar; the sheen, the thinness, softness, and pliability of the wrapper are all clues. The size, firmness, burn, and color of the ash. The aroma of a burning cigar and the general volume of smoke produced (i.e. the Partagas Serie D No. 4, or PSD4 is known to produce VOLUMES of smoke). All these are little subtleties that one starts paying attention to.

Now let's talk about bands!! There are lots of clues in cigar bands. Counterfeits will often have bands that have color differences, differences in the clarity and color of figures on them (Bolivar, LGC), differences in the thickness of the lettering on them (Cohiba), and the relief and texture of the band (even R&J Churchill). First time I met Kesler the past summer (he'll verify this) we traded cigars (Bolivar Corona Gigante). The one I got from him was fake, which he later acknowledged based on the differences in the appearance of the bands alone. Of course once he's had good Havana Bolivars there's just no comparison in the smoke anymore.
[Sorry to bring you into this Kesler, but you & I talk about those Bolivar bands all the time.]

Two Fridays ago at our local herf someone showed me a La Gloria Cubana (LGC) that he was smoking. I pulled out of my bag the same cigar (Medaille d`or No.2) that he was smoking to compare. Except that I had purchased mine (on my trip) in Paris, at a cigar shop, just 3 days before!! Well, we both instantly noticed that the bands weren't the same. Mine had more red in "La Gloria's" scarf, the black outline of her torso/arms/hair were better defined on mine, and the "HABANA" at the bottom of the band was in sligtly thicker letters. We just shook heads at each other.

You can ask some of the senior gorillas (Low Land Gorillas), Alpha Males, and Silver Backs about Havanas. They'll tell you that even when they see a newly opened box of beautiful looking cigars, you still have suspicions. You want to know where they're from and how reliable a source is and how good their cigars and service is. And even then you still have suspicions. If something doesn't "feel" right or "look" right. You just don't go there.

I recommend that people pay close attention when a senior gorilla LOOKS at a cigar. [And believe me I'm no where near a Senior Goilla as some that I know]. There's a scrutiny that goes on to check the legitimacy. Last summer while visiting SoCal I stopped by a friend's to gift him a Monte A. When I opened my travel humidor I saw the way he looked at my cigars, then looked up at me and said, " . . . you have some real gems there". I must have had a puzzled look on my face because he went on to explain that he's been smoking Havanas for nearly 25 years!! (I didn't know his smoking history). He works in the liquor business and gets to travel all over the world and has even been to Havana. It was the way he scrutinized them that clued me in that he had experiences that I didn't yet have.

What I'm reiterating here is that it takes a lot of experience to know the subtleties of cigars and to be able to tell differences that are suspicious. I can't tell you just how many fakes I've had in my lifetime, and I just don't want to spend another dime on yet another fake again. PERIOD!

Now on Sunday (2 days ago) I received a voice message calling me an absolute "asshole" for what I've posted on CS. Let me say this. The guy who left the message needs major anger management!! Yes, I know him and although he can be a very nice person, he can also fly off the handle a little too easily. Funny thing is he doesn't even have a tenth of my experience smoking cigars or even Havanas. He just simply hasn't been smoked that long or that much to really know enough!!!

So what this boils down to is that I stand by what I've said (posted). My intention is not to hurt anyone's feelings, but *THERE'S AN AWFUL LOT OF CRAP CIRCLATING AROUND HERE*. What's great about having a discussion board like CS is that I can bring stuff like this out in the open in a forum!! People will stop, look, read, listen, and quesion.

MoTheMan


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## MoTheMan (May 24, 2003)

*P.S.*

P.S. A bow to you Moki. I forgot to mention that you can also tell fake Havanas by dissection!! I've had MANY fakes that were sandwich fillers! True premium Havanas (I've said this before), even the tiny Cohiba Panetela, are made of LONG FILLER.

P.P.S. Let's not forget that there are lots of well researched and well written books out there on cigars and the cumulative information is a enlightening.


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## poker (Dec 11, 1997)

Fave vs Real Ramon Allones bands




Terrible Fake RyJ & Cohiba bands


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## cigar mark (Jan 31, 2004)

p.s. Mo the Man,
Allways liked you bro thanks for the info come over lets check this bso ion person so i can understand more look forward to a call.
Later ty


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## MoTheMan (May 24, 2003)

OK Mark. We'll talk. Maybe not in the next day or two but soon.

MoTheMan


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## jgros001 (Jun 14, 2005)

MoTheMan said:


> Cigar Mark,
> 
> If you want to talk, there's a lot of information to know about how to tell authentic cuban cigars from fake ones. It takes more than the date code (which BTW is two digit not four digit, i.e. Feb *03* and not Feb *2003*) on a box, more than seeing the UV watermark on the cuban seal or the Habanos sticker in the upper right corner of a box.
> 
> ...


Another Great post/thread by Mo and others that deserves a bump


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