# FAUXHIBA or COHIBA?



## vic_c (Sep 7, 2005)

I recently received the box on the right (in all the pictures) from a well known and respected vendor.The box on the left is the same ...both are Cohiba Robustos from 2004.
The problem is the warranty seal & "Habanos" chevron are placed on the wrong side, the finger notch is cut at an angle (rather than semi-circle), the "Habanos" chevron corner sticker is missing the "denominacion...." printing below, and the bottom date stamp seems a little strange.
Other than all of those things the fill on the cigars is very light..they burn rather fast and give off a ton of smoke. They do taste Cuban though and are not a bad smoke ..but not like any other Cohiba robusto I have ever had.
They are more similar to a Juan Lopez. 
Has anyone even seen anything like this before?
If these are not legit why would the vendor want to slip in a fake especially with the large volume of business he does? 
Or was the vendor duped by his supplier?
PM me if you require the name


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## vic_c (Sep 7, 2005)




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## Jsabbi01 (Feb 24, 2005)

The Habanos Chevron on the questionable box looks as if it were applied very poorly. All the boxes I have seen, the chevron is always at a 45 degree angle. This box looks as if the angle is off (could be an error by the person boxing the smokes). The date stamp on the questionable box also looks off to me, I've never seen the factory code and the date that far apart and the SEPo4 looks weird. These could be factory errors though. Its still all in how they smoke, and if you enjoy them that is all that matters.

good luck!
Joe


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## sirxlaughs (Nov 18, 2005)

The first thing I noticed was the inner sheet. I think all Cubans have the sheet with a circular notch, not an angular notch. There is a Habanos chevron w/o the writing on the bottom of it (older style, I have 2 boxes with this type on it).
How's the printing on the warranty seal compare to the one on the left? The originals are printed on special machines with microprinting and such. The lines should all be very smooth (similar to US currency). Usually, a fake one will look like it was printed on an inkjet and have jaggier lines.


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## Maduro13 (Dec 27, 2005)

vic_c said:


> I recently received the box on the right (in all the pictures) from a well known and respected vendor.The box on the left is the same ...both are Cohiba Robustos from 2004.
> The problem is the warranty seal & "Habanos" chevron are placed on the wrong side, the finger notch is cut at an angle (rather than semi-circle), the "Habanos" chevron corner sticker is missing the "denominacion...." printing below, and the bottom date stamp seems a little strange.
> Other than all of those things the fill on the cigars is very light..they burn rather fast and give off a ton of smoke. They do taste Cuban though and are not a bad smoke ..but not like any other Cohiba robusto I have ever had.
> They are more similar to a Juan Lopez.
> ...


It all depends on what you paid for the box of Cohibas. Usually the fakes sell for $200-$250, i live in Florida and see them all the time. A true box of Cohiba purchased in Cuba would cost the consumer purchasing them in Cuba roughly $350.00 - $450.00.


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## Jsabbi01 (Feb 24, 2005)

How do the actual cigars look? Can you post pics of the caps, bands and the feet of the stogies? That would also help.


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## brian (Jan 1, 2000)

Not always, in most cases yes but I have a few boxes with the a straight cut. It happens from time to time.

QUOTE=sirxlaughs]The first thing I noticed was the inner sheet. I think all Cubans have the sheet with a circular notch, not an angular notch. .[/QUOTE]


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## scc135 (Feb 6, 2006)

if you question the authenticity, have you tried contacting the vendor in order to ask them? I thought most had the 100% guarantee so you'd be able to replace it if you wanted to as well...

As most said, that chevron would have raised a major flag for me and personally I would have flat out exchanged it if anything...


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## SeanGAR (Jul 9, 2004)

I think the chevron angle & wrong stamped side support them being real, not fake. If they were really good fakes (since they taste cuban), the counterfiters would no doubt know enough to put the chevron on the right angle and stamp on the right side. So I'm thinking Jose came to work hammered up or somebody new was on the job that day. I also read where somebody else was complaining about loose draws on recent coros as well. So if you trust your source, you have to think these are legit but a disappointing box.


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## LasciviousXXX (Oct 12, 2004)

IMO, the Chevron being on the wrong side is not an indicator of a fake box. I've seen it happen on real verifiable boxes. Cuba is just not that consistent sometimes.

I would need to taste someting really off in the cigars to make me suspect fake just because of the inconsistencies in the box.

XXX


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## vic_c (Sep 7, 2005)

Here is the vendor's response:
All our cigars are purchased from an authorized Habanos distributor that we
have been dealing with for over 14 years. If you ask around you will get
confirmation that it is not altogether unusual that the warranty label and
seal and on the other side. This can be confirmed by speaking to some of the
guys on the forums at www.herfersparadise.net or www.cigarweekly.com

No Club Stogie?

Anyway... this box is from a widely respected vendor who I have never had a problems with and has been verified many times by other board memebers as "legit".
It is just surprising to see so many inconsistencies with the box and the fill of the cigars themselves.


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## Hunter (May 20, 2005)

When was "denominacion" added to the Habanos chevron? The printing on the interior cedar sheet appears smaller too..


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## brian (Jan 1, 2000)

Vic It happens, we are used to huge levels of quality control here in the U.S. for most goods and services.

Just not the way in Cuba where quality control and consistency are not what we are used to here. I have been told be some FOG's that strange things can happen with packaging of the same cigars etc! from factory to factory. I would trust your vendor and your own taste buds.



vic_c said:


> Here is the vendor's response:
> All our cigars are purchased from an authorized Habanos distributor that we
> have been dealing with for over 14 years. If you ask around you will get
> confirmation that it is not altogether unusual that the warranty label and
> ...


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## vic_c (Sep 7, 2005)

sirxlaughs said:


> The first thing I noticed was the inner sheet. I think all Cubans have the sheet with a circular notch, not an angular notch. There is a Habanos chevron w/o the writing on the bottom of it (older style, I have 2 boxes with this type on it).
> How's the printing on the warranty seal compare to the one on the left? The originals are printed on special machines with microprinting and such. The lines should all be very smooth (similar to US currency). Usually, a fake one will look like it was printed on an inkjet and have jaggier lines.


Some inner sheets are cut with the straight angle notch but it is curious that a 2004 box of Cohibas would have been cut that way....every other box I have has the semi-circular cut. I do think the chevron looks like the older style as well ..from a few years ago...Other than that the printing on the warranty seal is excellent and the microprinting is fine as well under 20x magnification.


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## Gordon in NM (Mar 9, 2005)

SeanGAR said:


> I think the chevron angle & wrong stamped side support them being real, not fake. If they were really good fakes (since they taste cuban), the counterfiters would no doubt know enough to put the chevron on the right angle and stamp on the right side. So I'm thinking Jose came to work hammered up or somebody new was on the job that day. I also read where somebody else was complaining about loose draws on recent coros as well. So if you trust your source, you have to think these are legit but a disappointing box.


BINGO! I have had several very legitimate COHIBA SLBs with the chevron on the "wrong" side, it happens all the time, and old chevrons on "new" boxes are not that rare. Also and more importantly to me, The letter prefixes on the warranty seals (GE and GR) are correct for the 2004 date codes stamped on the boxes. Counterfeiters never get this right.

I would be circumspect when posting an "Are they Real?" query to the board, and consider the experience level of the respondents when considering the replies. There is an awful lot of "information" about box details, bands, cedar cover sheets (yes both straight notched AND radius notched sheets are commonly used), triple caps, etc.. There are lots of well meaning individuals around and about who have digested this "information" and are very willing to share what they have "learned", but frequently this focus on a particular detail results in an erroneous result.

This is often a case of not being able to see the forrest by overconcentration on the trees. One detail (with a few notable exceptions) is almost never enough to make a fakes call, and some details are MUCH more important than others. These things are produced in a third world environment and "wrong" shit happens all the time. An experienced smoker, will look at the whole picture, examine the most important details, and know those details where variation frequently occurs because he has SEEN it time and again with his own eyes. Only time and experience and looking over a lot of boxes can teach this. Please don't misunderstand me, I am not trying to suggest that any particular poster on this or any other thread does not know from where he speaks. But rather I see an awful lot of questionable stuff particullarly about Cuban cigars being bandied about as fact on internet message boards, so remember what opinions are like...

As all of the F.O.G.s (and I don't consider myself to be in that group by any stretch) have pointed out a million times. Know your vendors, watch, ask and learn. I know it's tough when a guy is just getting started, and doesn't yet trust his sources because he doesn't yet have the experience and the palate to be able to tell if the stuff he is getting is even real. It's a rock and a hard place thing but we've ALL been there, and many still are.

Smoke and enjoy, and just be aware that not everyone who responds to an internet post has the actual knowledge to provide a meaningful answer. Always consider the source.

Enjoy the ride,

Gordo


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## xibbumbero (Feb 20, 2006)

The only thing that bothers me is the notch on the inner sheet. I've never had a straight cut sheet on any legit box but I've seen many on fake boxes.
Maybe someone else has had one on a legit box? X


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## One Lonely Smoker (Jan 21, 2005)

If anything was wrong about the cigars, I would send them back.
I know that you get a circular notch on MAYBE 60% of Habanos boxes, but I would think Cohiba would be by far the most diligent on the details and I think the Cohiba notch would be curved. The Chevron application angle is too much for me though. I know from experience that adherance to cabs is not their best quality, but this one just looks wrongly applied from the get go.
The box code is a bit bizarre to be sure, but with the long ago infusion of Fake ELs into "legit" vendors and some of the things that have been happening of late, I would just ask to have them replaced, mostly cause I do not have to take part in the hassle. Or smoke them and shut up.


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## mosesbotbol (Sep 21, 2005)

I saw them in person and the questionable box is the better smoking one... I'll take them off your hands...


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## vic_c (Sep 7, 2005)

mosesbotbol said:


> I saw them in person and the questionable box is the better smoking one... I'll take them off your hands...


I am by no means mad at the cigars as you know! And mosesbotbol is 100% correct the cigars do smoke great! I was more curious as to whether or not anyone had ever seen anything like this before. Gordon and others have verified that they have seen this kind of thing before..so my mind is at ease.
THANKS!


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## Gordon in NM (Mar 9, 2005)

xibbumbero said:


> The only thing that bothers me is the notch on the inner sheet. I've never had a straight cut sheet on any legit box but I've seen many on fake boxes.
> Maybe someone else has had one on a legit box? X


I don't have time to post a photo right now, but as it turns out, I just happen to have a cedar cover sheet from a VERY legit box of Siglo IVs from LLN OCT04 with a warranty seal prefix of GB (right in the time frame of the box in question) which just happens to have a straight cut across the upper right corner.

These cigars were purchased from a very respected European vendor. I would be happy to post a photo later if it would make you happy.

Gordo


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## dadof3illinois (Nov 7, 2004)

Gordon in NM said:


> BINGO! I have had several very legitimate COHIBA SLBs with the chevron on the "wrong" side, it happens all the time, and old chevrons on "new" boxes are not that rare. Also and more importantly to me, The letter prefixes on the warranty seals (GE and GR) are correct for the 2004 date codes stamped on the boxes. Counterfeiters never get this right.
> 
> I would be circumspect when posting an "Are they Real?" query to the board, and consider the experience level of the respondents when considering the replies. There is an awful lot of "information" about box details, bands, cedar cover sheets (yes both straight notched AND radius notched sheets are commonly used), triple caps, etc.. There are lots of well meaning individuals around and about who have digested this "information" and are very willing to share what they have "learned", but frequently this focus on a particular detail results in an erroneous result.
> 
> ...


Great post Gordo, one of the best I've seen around here on the subject of fakes!!!!


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## RJT (Feb 12, 2005)

Gordon in NM said:


> I don't have time to post a photo right now, but as it turns out, I just happen to have a cedar cover sheet from a VERY legit box of Siglo IVs from LLN OCT04 with a warranty seal prefix of GB (right in the time frame of the box in question) which just happens to have a straight cut across the upper right corner.
> 
> These cigars were purchased from a very respected European vendor. I would be happy to post a photo later if it would make you happy.
> 
> Gordo


I agree. I have some legit boxes with a straight cut. I even read one time that the machine used to make this notch was broken and they had to hand cut the straight edge. (they were not going to stop production over a notch) A few things to remeber here, you are dealing with a country that has some limited resources. I have seen bands that were a little off, straight edge cuts, warranty seals on wrong side, Double or even tripple warranty and chevron seals on boxes, (quality control checks). All on legit boxes.

Their quality control has gotten better but they simply can not and will not destroy a box or throw out bands that are slightly off on printing or other minor flaws. They simply cant afford to.

You also have to take in the "human factor" people have off or bad days. Hung over, wife is mad at you, Castro demanding more production,a new hottie torcedor gets placed next to you rolling on those firm thighs. Alot of factors are involved that can produce a less than perfect product. Find you a reliable honest source but still be careful. This is just my :2 on the subject. RJT


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## xibbumbero (Feb 20, 2006)

Well,there you have it. The straight cut does not a fugazi make.
However,vendor reliability and how they smoke tell the true story. X:w


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## Blueface (May 28, 2005)

Tons of great info on this thread and I am not going to get into what makes a legit box or not.
However, I think I know Cohibas fairly well as I can account for at least 25 boxes that have gone up in smoke and currently have around 20 in my humidor.
I think this box on the right is questionable.

Yes the inside cedar comes both in half moon and straight cut but I have never seen a box of Cuba's flagship cigar with a such poor placement of that chevron. They take pride in the final look of the Cohiba product. It is the most expensive line coming out of Cuba. That box is dated late '04. Research when the new Habanos chevron with the added wording was realeased. Yours on the right does not have it while the one on the left does. 

Next and most importantly, note the warranty seal.
I have never seen a warranty seal that has the code letters so close to the serial number. There is invariably a space between them.

Now, are these fakes? Only the person who packed them will know for sure and only the bearer can tell. However, I can certainly understand why you are questioning them.

Great thread overall as there are many out there that use this information to help them along. I would not jump off a bridge based on the very many opinions posted on here but when you ask for an opinion, an opinion you get.


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## RJT (Feb 12, 2005)

Blueface said:


> Tons of great info on this thread and I am not going to get into what makes a legit box or not.
> However, I think I know Cohibas fairly well as I can account for at least 25 boxes that have gone up in smoke and currently have around 20 in my humidor.
> I think this box on the right is questionable.
> 
> ...


If you have a good relationship with your retailer and he is about customer service I would send them back for an exchange. RJT


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## vic_c (Sep 7, 2005)

Blueface said:


> Tons of great info on this thread and I am not going to get into what makes a legit box or not.
> However, I think I know Cohibas fairly well as I can account for at least 25 boxes that have gone up in smoke and currently have around 20 in my humidor.
> I think this box on the right is questionable.
> 
> ...


EXCELLENT RESPOPNSE Blueface!
Thanks!!!
..I'm quite sure I will never know the true story...I do know the vendor is highly respected on this board and I have never had a problem with him...that still doesn't mean this particular box is what it should be. However the cigars themselves taste / smoke great and appear to be Cuban in origin.
Who knows?


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## Blueface (May 28, 2005)

vic_c said:


> However the cigars themselves taste / smoke great and appear to be Cuban in origin.


You have landed on what really counts.
If you have had them before on a regular basis, you know what is and what isn't. Everything can else can have some explanation but the taste, smell and smoke, nothing can get by that.

Enjoy!


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