# Question about legality of "CC's" in the USA.



## huskers (Oct 2, 2012)

So I was reading this thread and it made me ponder a bit.

http://www.cigarforums.net/forums/vb/general-cigar-discussion/332113-johnny-o-cigars.html

These were said to be rolled in Florida using Cuban tobacco.

So the end user bought them in the USA and they were even made in the USA.

Would they still be illegal since they use Cuban product?

I would think they would be legal since they were made and sold here in the states.

Can anyone with more knowledge weigh in?


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## Emperor Zurg (May 6, 2013)

AFAIK, you can't buy ANY product from Cuba. Not so much as a toothbrush - legally anyway.
If they are actually legal, It's probably 'Cuban seed' tobacco they got ahold of. If it's actually Cuban tobacco I'm sure they're contraband.


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## huskers (Oct 2, 2012)

Emperor Zurg said:


> AFAIK, *you can't buy ANY product from Cuba*. Not so much as a toothbrush - legally anyway.
> If they are actually legal, It's probably 'Cuban seed' tobacco they got ahold of. If it's actually Cuban tobacco I'm sure they're contraband.


but I wouldn't be buying anything FROM cuba, I would be buying it from the United states.

You saying it would still be illegal since it uses a product that came from cuba?


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## copper0426 (Aug 15, 2012)

If it isn't pre embargo tobbacco it is an illegal cigar. The embargonis on all Cuban products otherwise companies here eould import Cuban tobacco and roll it here. With in mind if you smoke or have it in your humidore unless you bought it your not breaking the law. The law applies to the sale and purchase not the owning or smoking. Just like being stoned there is no law against it. If I catch you in the process I arrest you for possesion but you can be as stoned as you want.


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## huskers (Oct 2, 2012)

copper0426 said:


> If it isn't pre embargo tobbacco it is an illegal cigar. The embargonis on all Cuban products otherwise companies here eould import Cuban tobacco and roll it here.


makes sense.

thanks


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## stonecutter2 (Jul 12, 2012)

huskers said:


> but I wouldn't be buying anything FROM cuba, I would be buying it from the United states.
> 
> You saying it would still be illegal since it uses a product that came from cuba?


The embargo prohibits anyone within US jurisdiction from transactions which involve property in which Cuba or a Cuban national has an interest. Acquiring anything that involves Cuba by anyone who falls within US jurisdiction is illegal. This means if someone imported tobacco and made cigars, they'd be legally liable for their actions. If they sell it to you, you are now liable as well because you were a party to obtaining that property that Cuba had an interest in.

The embargo also means anyone who falls within US jurisdiction can't even buy Cuban related items when outside the US...though how exactly that would end up being enforced is sort of a mystery to me.


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## Tritones (Jun 23, 2010)

copper0426 said:


> ... if you smoke or have it in your humidore unless you bought it your not breaking the law. The law applies to the sale and purchase not the owning or smoking.


Not sure that's entirely accurate. If you import Cuban cigars, you're breaking the law, no matter how you came into possession of them.

Presuming you acquired them by gift in the US, you are still at the very least in a very gray area. It is illegal to import any Cuban cigars, and possession of them is therefore possession of illegal contraband, which may have legal ramifications regardless of how you obtained them.

That, of course, is pretty much the worst-case scenario and in the real world you are probably right - possessing a few Cuban cigars in your humidor will probably not ever get you in legal difficulties.


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## Tritones (Jun 23, 2010)

stonecutter2 said:


> The embargo prohibits anyone within US jurisdiction from transactions which involve property in which Cuba or a Cuban national has an interest. Acquiring anything that involves Cuba by anyone who falls within US jurisdiction is illegal. This means if someone imported tobacco and made cigars, they'd be legally liable for their actions. If they sell it to you, you are now liable as well because you were a party to obtaining that property that Cuba had an interest in.
> 
> The embargo also means anyone who falls within US jurisdiction can't even buy Cuban related items when outside the US...though how exactly that would end up being enforced is sort of a mystery to me.


Yep. Here's a brief "clarification" from the US Treasury:

http://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/sanctions/Documents/ccigar2.pdf


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## copper0426 (Aug 15, 2012)

All I'm saying is the law is very specifically applied to the impotation of any products. It does not apply to the possesion of said product short of proof that the posser in fact paid for the product the harshest remedy would be confiscation of the product. Prosecution would be impossible with the way it is written. My 2cents


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## [OT] Loki (May 24, 2006)

huskers said:


> but I wouldn't be buying anything FROM cuba, I would be buying it from the United states.
> 
> You saying it would still be illegal since it uses a product that came from cuba?


there is no legal way for a US citizen to purchase, consume or posses a cuban product regardless of where the product is purchased


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## [OT] Loki (May 24, 2006)

copper0426 said:


> If it isn't pre embargo tobbacco it is an illegal cigar. The embargonis on all Cuban products otherwise companies here eould import Cuban tobacco and roll it here. With in mind if you smoke or have it in your humidore unless you bought it your not breaking the law. The law applies to the sale and purchase not the owning or smoking. Just like being stoned there is no law against it. If I catch you in the process I arrest you for possesion but you can be as stoned as you want.


you may want to be absolutely sure about this before you go posting legal advice


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## Tobias Lutz (Feb 18, 2013)

It's not even legal for an American to purchase a Cuban cigar in Cuba (or Canada or Australia or England or...) for that matter. That's the best part of your citizenship- it follows you everywhere :biggrin:


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## TonyBrooklyn (Jan 28, 2010)

huskers said:


> So I was reading this thread and it made me ponder a bit.
> 
> http://www.cigarforums.net/forums/vb/general-cigar-discussion/332113-johnny-o-cigars.html
> 
> ...


No Cuban products made after the embargo was put into effect are legal for an American citizen to own.


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## copper0426 (Aug 15, 2012)

[OT] Loki said:


> you may want to be absolutely sure about this before you go posting legal advice


What part of the first sentence isn't true? The rest simply applies to how, in my (real)experience the law is applied. I don't give legal advice.this was a discussion if you feel it necessary to scold me or anyone else here I think it would be appropriate in private. I have no problem if you state you disagree and why.


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## LGHT (Oct 12, 2009)

Interesting topic. I have been to Aruba a few times and there is a shop cigar shop "Aruhiba" that sells great cigars grown from cuban seed. Now this isn't a marketing scam as the owner used to live in Cuba and worked as a grower before setting up shop in Aruba so I'm sure the seeds are legit. He grows the lives in Aruba and rolls his own cigars. The end product is VERY close to hand rolled cuban cigars and is by far the closest I've smoked. I bring back several boxes whenever I go or a friend goes. I have been told by the customs inspector that a lot of people in the states brings them back including him and they are perfectly fine and don't violate any laws. I plan on bringing back 8 boxes in a few weeks to ensure I have enough to age for several years.


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## gehrig97 (Aug 19, 2007)

List of current US trade embargoes (Wikipedia)

Countries:
Burma, since 1997
Cuba, since 1962
Iran, since 1979 
Libya, since 2011 (now applied only against parties closely associated with the former Gaddafi regime
North Korea, since 1950
Sudan
Syria

Boy, Cuba sure seems out of place on this list.


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## [OT] Loki (May 24, 2006)

copper0426 said:


> What part of the first sentence isn't true? The rest simply applies to how, in my (real)experience the law is applied. I don't give legal advice.this was a discussion if you feel it necessary to scold me or anyone else here I think it would be appropriate in private. I have no problem if you state you disagree and why.


you clearly already read why I disagree as it was the post before the one you quoted.

http://www.cigarforums.net/forums/v...stion-about-legality-ccs-usa.html#post3960135 If you need an apology for being "scolded" you're going to be waiting quite a while.


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## [OT] Loki (May 24, 2006)

LGHT said:


> Interesting topic. I have been to Aruba a few times and there is a shop cigar shop "Aruhiba" that sells great cigars grown from cuban seed. Now this isn't a marketing scam as the owner used to live in Cuba and worked as a grower before setting up shop in Aruba so I'm sure the seeds are legit. He grows the lives in Aruba and rolls his own cigars. The end product is VERY close to hand rolled cuban cigars and is by far the closest I've smoked. I bring back several boxes whenever I go or a friend goes. I have been told by the customs inspector that a lot of people in the states brings them back including him and they are perfectly fine and don't violate any laws. I plan on bringing back 8 boxes in a few weeks to ensure I have enough to age for several years.


"cuban seed" grown cigars are fine


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## copper0426 (Aug 15, 2012)

[OT] Loki said:


> you clearly already read why I disagree as it was the post before the one you quoted.
> 
> http://www.cigarforums.net/forums/v...stion-about-legality-ccs-usa.html#post3960135 If you need an apology for being "scolded" you're going to be waiting quite a while.


As is typical of a FOG. I DIDNT REALLY expect an apology just some simple etiquette and congeniality. I'm not hete to argue life's to short. I give I'm tapping out of this one.


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## huskers (Oct 2, 2012)

[OT] Loki said:


> there is no legal way for a US citizen to purchase, consume or posses a cuban product regardless of where the product is purchased


If it was rolled (made) in the USA, would it not be an American product regardless of what it was made of?

Like other products we buy, some certain parts used may come from china but the item in whole is made in the USA.


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## [OT] Loki (May 24, 2006)

huskers said:


> If it was rolled (made) in the USA, would it not be an American product regardless of what it was made of?
> 
> Like other products we buy, some certain parts used may come from china but the item in whole is made in the USA.


still of cuban origin


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## Perfecto Dave (Nov 24, 2009)

It is illegal to have, hold, breath, snort, lick, look at too close, think about having or holding, dreaming of or dreaming of a dream that you are dreaming of smoking any thing Cuban. Since after 1962 thanks to pres Kennedy.
If you are an American citizen, it doesn't matter where you are in the world and how legal it is for all the people around you that are not Americans citizens to have and/or hold said Cuban objects. It is still illegal for said American citizen to indulge in Cuban festivities. 
You're all illegal by being here and reading this. :boxing: Move along...nothing legal here to read!:spy:

:rip: All of your Cuban cigars!


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## huskers (Oct 2, 2012)

[OT] Loki said:


> still of cuban origin


I'm not trying to argue or be difficult here and this is a bit of what of a what if topic......BUT.......

How would we know if it was bought from a cigar roller that just rolled it in front of you at a cigar shop in Florida.....it's not like it's advertised what kind of tobacco is used all the time so we are just buying a cigar with little to no knowledge about the tobacco used in it.

Kind of like a tv, the parts probably come from many different countries, are we held legally responsible to make sure none of the parts came from Cuba.

I know the above scenario is highly unlikely but just a fun and interesting question of legalities.


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## Wicked_Rhube (Jul 29, 2012)

Regarding your last post Josh I think it might fall into the "ignorance is no excuse for breaking the law" type of thing.

If I buy a gun thinking it's semi, but it turns out be fully auto, I'm pretty sure it's illegal...


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## huskers (Oct 2, 2012)

Wicked_Rhube said:


> Regarding your last post Josh I think it might fall into the "ignorance is no excuse for breaking the law" type of thing.
> 
> If I buy a gun thinking it's semi, but it turns out be fully auto, I'm pretty sure it's illegal...


Point taken William.


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## Ky70 (Aug 21, 2012)

Wicked_Rhube said:


> Regarding your last post Josh I think it might fall into the "ignorance is no excuse for breaking the law" type of thing.
> 
> If I buy a gun thinking it's semi, but it turns out be fully auto, I'm pretty sure it's illegal...


The cigar example would be a bit different. If I purchase an item from a legitimate/legal US vendor/retailer that advertises their product as a NON-Cuban product, I would not be liable if the vendor misled me. Of course, no one selling Cubans will present them as NON-Cubans but it is an interesting example for discussion.

It is reasonable to expect a gun buyer to know the difference between a semi auto and full auto, it is not reasonable to expect a cigar buyer to know that the contents of a cigar are different from what's being advertised.


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## MDSPHOTO (Sep 10, 2013)

copper0426 said:


> As is typical of a FOG. I DIDNT REALLY expect an apology just some simple etiquette and congeniality. I'm not hete to argue life's to short. I give I'm tapping out of this one.


I see this acronym come up quite a bit. What is a FOG?


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## protekk (Oct 18, 2010)

MDSPHOTO said:


> I see this acronym come up quite a bit. What is a FOG?


F---ing Old Guy&#8230;&#8230;A term used for some of the more experienced people on this side of the forums


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## LueyC (Jul 12, 2013)

Effin Old Guy :mrgreen: - D'oh beaten to the punch!


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## MDSPHOTO (Sep 10, 2013)

Got it thanks to both!


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## huskers (Oct 2, 2012)

Ky70 said:


> The cigar example would be a bit different. If I purchase an item from a legitimate/legal US vendor/retailer that advertises their product as a NON-Cuban product, I would not be liable if the vendor misled me. Of course, no one selling Cubans will present them as NON-Cubans but it is an interesting example for discussion.
> 
> *It is reasonable to expect a gun buyer to know the difference between a semi auto and full auto*, it is not reasonable to expect a cigar buyer to know that the contents of a cigar are different from what's being advertised.


Not always the case though..........this could be argued.

You can make a semi auto into a fully auto and the person would never know unless they shot it first.

I didn't really want to go down that road though.


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## Perfecto Dave (Nov 24, 2009)

> It is reasonable to expect a gun buyer to know the difference between a semi auto and full auto,


Doesn't matter if the buyer were to know or NOT to know....if the feds found out you owned it and it was a FA, you can bet your last dollar you would not own it anymore without the proper license. No matter what you thought or where told when you bought it.
The DEA busted someone I know for something totally different than cuban tobacco. When they did the search and seizure they took every thing....even the unbanded ones. Guilty by association! He did not get any thing of the Cuban origin or SUSPECTED Cuban origin back. They did return everything that they originally were busting them for.
Funny how the feds work in mysterious ways.


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## Ky70 (Aug 21, 2012)

huskers said:


> Not always the case though..........this could be argued.
> You can make a semi auto into a fully auto and the person would never know unless they shot it first..


Possibly, but my larger point is about the cigars and that the onus of knowing what's inside a cigar would not be on the buyer in my example from my previous post (i.e. legal US vendor, advertising legal US product) and how that differs from the gun example.


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## huskers (Oct 2, 2012)

Ky70 said:


> *Possibly*, but my larger point is about the cigars and that the onus of knowing what's inside a cigar would not be on the buyer in my example from my previous post (i.e. legal US vendor, advertising legal US product) and how that differs from the gun example.


There is no possibly.........my statement was 100% factual, trust me on this one.


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## Tritones (Jun 23, 2010)

Is the question whether or not someone would be charged with a criminal offense if they were found to be in possession of Cuban cigars that they did not, themselves, import, and which were given to them purely as a gift? Or is it a question of whether or not that same someone would be allowed to keep such cigars if they were discovered? I think it's kind of a maybe on the first (with possibility of a defense). I think it's pretty definitely NO on the second, regardless of whether the owner of the cigars was ever charged with a crime.

Luckily, at this point it seems like little more than an exercise in the theoretical.

Now, if Uncle Sam confiscated a bunch of cigars that they suspected to be of Cuban origin, and I fought in court and won because they were unable to so prove, I'm still out all those cigars because the evidence locker is not a proper environment for cigars, and they'll be spending a great deal of time there before the conclusion of the trial. :biggrin:


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## Old Smokey (Sep 13, 2013)

One thing about the Johnny O's is they are unbranded so I would think it would be difficult for them to be identified as having anything to do with Cuba.


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## TonyBrooklyn (Jan 28, 2010)

Old Smokey said:


> One thing about the Johnny O's is they are unbranded so I would think it would be difficult for them to be identified as having anything to do with Cuba.


Here's another interesting fact. Proof of origin rests with you and you alone. If customs confiscates your cigars banded or unbanded. You must prove their origin Customs needs to prove nothing.


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## Tobias Lutz (Feb 18, 2013)

TonyBrooklyn said:


> Here's another interesting fact. Proof of origin rests with you and you alone. If customs confiscates your cigars banded or unbanded. You must prove their origin Customs needs to prove nothing.


One of those great areas where you're guilty until proven innocent :biggrin:

To the OP: At the end of the day, while customs will certainly confiscate if they are discovered, I think Habano smokers think the rest of the US, particularly law enforcement, care a lot more about this than they actually do. We're just a blip on their radar. Hell, I'm pretty confident the only reason customs bothers is because the stuff HAS to go through them anyway. While the treasury may go out of their way now and again to do a major bust (like O'Hare), I just don't see them giving a rat's behind about us as individual smokers who enjoy Cubans. That's why these questions generally remain theoretical.


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## Old Smokey (Sep 13, 2013)

TonyBrooklyn said:


> Here's another interesting fact. Proof of origin rests with you and you alone. If customs confiscates your cigars banded or unbanded. You must prove their origin Customs needs to prove nothing.


No wonder this is referred to as the "dark side".


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## djsmiles (Aug 4, 2012)

gehrig97 said:


> List of current US trade embargoes (Wikipedia)
> 
> Countries:
> Burma, since 1997
> ...


You are aware of what the Castro regime did to the Cuban people, right?


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## gehrig97 (Aug 19, 2007)

Well, to the extent that I've read a bit about it--but obviously didn't live through it. I realize (and sympathize) that people have suffered for decades under his regime. Castro was a dictator and a thug--I won't argue that point. Nor am I a fan of socialism, communism, the abolishment of property rights, the imprisonment (and worse) of political dissidents, etc. 

But --and I ask this question with respect-- who are we hurting with this antiquated policy? I would answer the Cuban people. 

The embargo is a relic --an anachronism--of days past. Our largest trading partner in the world is China; Saudi Arabia provides 8% of our oil. These countries have FAR WORSE records re: political, human and civil rights -- yet we welcome their products with open arms, we allow them to purchase entire blocks in our largest cities, and we gladly swallow any trade restrictions they want to impose on us (trade deficits). Enforcing a trade embargo on a poverty-stricken third world country that posed a threat to us for 13 days 50 years ago (and I'm not selling that threat short--Khrushchev and Castro put us all on the brink of extinction), but allowing China to be the single largest US debt holder ($1.35 trillion in Treasuries and counting)? C'mon. And I'm not allowed to buy a Cohiba?

I mean, look at the list: Syria--borderline genocide. Iran: Supports terrorist organizations; has threatened to "raze cities in Israel" with nukes. North Korea: Threatens nuke strikes every other week. Sudan: Genocidal regime. Burma: ethnic cleansing. We're putting Cuba on this list?

That said: The lifting of the embargo --which does seem likely in the next decade--would be TERRIBLE for folks in the U.S. who smoke Cuban cigars. There would be an enormous shock to the market; while you would hypothetically be able to purchase a Cuban cigar at your local B&M, have fun paying $50/stick for a RASS.


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## LueyC (Jul 12, 2013)

gehrig97 said:


> Well, to the extent that I've read a bit about it--but obviously didn't live through it. I realize (and sympathize) that people have suffered for decades under his regime. Castro was a dictator and a thug--I won't argue that point. Nor am I a fan of socialism, communism, the abolishment of property rights, the imprisonment (and worse) of political dissidents, etc.
> 
> But --and I ask this question with respect-- who are we hurting with this antiquated policy? I would answer the Cuban people.
> 
> ...


I agree with some of your points. As far as I am concerned China is a communist country, yet we have a very favorable trading arrangement with them. I believe it is because there is money to be made by huge multinational corporations that can manufacturer there, sell everywhere else and make huge profits. I also believe that the trade embargo with Cuba will be lifted within the next decade or two, but only when the Cuban regime opens up much like China did to "free enterprise". Ie when there is money to be made by aforementioned multinational corporations.

Yes, lifting of the embargo would be TERRIBLE for folks that enjoy Cuban Cigars in the US (and other countries) at first. More demand, lower quality, higher prices, are all the more reasons to stock up now. However, once the novelty wears off, I believe it will get better. Just imagine, CCBID :banana:.


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## jazzboypro (Jul 30, 2012)

djsmiles said:


> You are aware of what the Castro regime did to the Cuban people, right?


Well...if you think this is a good reason to explain the embargo against Cuba, the list maid by gehrig97 would contain more tan 7 countries.....


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## Stillinger (Jan 29, 2013)

As long as there's a large voting bloc of people living in a semi-swing state who have a major opinion in the situation against lifting the embargo, I think you will find it hard to see either party push for it in the near future.


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## gehrig97 (Aug 19, 2007)

> As long as there's a large voting bloc of people living in a semi-swing state who have a major opinion in the situation against lifting the embargo, I think you will find it hard to see either party push for it in the near future.


This.


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## tnlawyer (Jul 17, 2013)

[OT] Loki said:


> you may want to be absolutely sure about this before you go posting legal advice


He's right though. It's the importation that is the crime. Of course, if they catch you in possession, they would probably allege that you had a hand in importing it and you'd probably have to prove otherwise. Best advice I can give to anyone thinking about importing, possessing, storing or smoking CC is to know the risks and decide for yourself whether it's worth the risks or not. If someone is worried about getting caught...
View attachment 83602


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## huskers (Oct 2, 2012)

tnlawyer said:


> He's right though. It's the importation that is the crime. Of course, if they catch you in possession, they would probably allege that you had a hand in importing it and you'd probably have to prove otherwise. Best advice I can give to anyone thinking about importing, possessing, storing or smoking CC is to know the risks and decide for yourself whether it's worth the risks or not. If someone is worried about getting caught...
> View attachment 83602


I'm not worried about being caught.

The cigar in question just made me ponder rather it would fall under the Cuban embargo or not.

Just a question out of curiosity is all.


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## tnlawyer (Jul 17, 2013)

huskers said:


> I'm not worried about being caught.
> 
> The cigar in question just made me ponder rather it would fall under the Cuban embargo or not.
> 
> Just a question out of curiosity is all.


I know...just speaking in general terms for anyone who may be thinking about whether or not to go down that road.

As far as the cigar in question is concerned, it's part of the embargo.


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## gehrig97 (Aug 19, 2007)

TonyBrooklyn said:


> Here's another interesting fact. Proof of origin rests with you and you alone. If customs confiscates your cigars banded or unbanded. You must prove their origin Customs needs to prove nothing.


Hey Tony,

This IS interesting. So, hypothetically speaking, let's say a US citizen was returning from Europe with some cigars in a plastic bag--no bands, no box. Could customs then confiscate these cigars and require that the citizen prove they AREN'T of Cuban origin?

Hope all is well with you!


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## protekk (Oct 18, 2010)

gehrig97 said:


> So, hypothetically speaking, let's say a US citizen was returning from Europe with some cigars in a plastic bag--no bands, no box. Could customs then confiscate these cigars and require that the citizen prove they AREN'T of Cuban origin?


I travel every summer overseas so I have looked into this on a few occasions. My understanding is that this is true&#8230;&#8230;...that you have to prove origin or they could confiscate.


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## gehrig97 (Aug 19, 2007)

So... they can confiscate unbanded cigars, cigars that give no indication of being illegal, cigars that could very well be dominican, nicaraguan, mexican, ecuadorian, _american_... and say "well, we think these might be Cuban... and you have to prove otherwise, even though you have absolutely no way of doing so"?

That is some ****ed-up shit right there.


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## MarkC (Jul 4, 2009)

Perfecto Dave said:


> It is illegal to have, hold, breath, snort, lick, look at too close, think about having or holding, dreaming of or dreaming of a dream that you are dreaming of smoking any thing Cuban. Since after 1962 thanks to pres Kennedy.
> If you are an American citizen, it doesn't matter where you are in the world and how legal it is for all the people around you that are not Americans citizens to have and/or hold said Cuban objects. It is still illegal for said American citizen to indulge in Cuban festivities.
> You're all illegal by being here and reading this. :boxing: Move along...nothing legal here to read!:spy:
> 
> :rip: All of your Cuban cigars!


Wow. I got this far in the thread, and I'm starting to panic. Perhaps I should destroy the few cuban cigars that I have...er...don't have...theoretically...
I think I'll destroy a Monte #4 right now to get started.

As for the topic, discussions can be difficult when people aren't discussing the same issue. There's "illegal" and then theres "they-can-prove-it illegal". Some consider these one and the same, some don't.


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## MarkC (Jul 4, 2009)

Uh..._hypothetical_ #4 I mean.


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## tnlawyer (Jul 17, 2013)

gehrig97 said:


> So... they can confiscate unbanded cigars, cigars that give no indication of being illegal, cigars that could very well be dominican, nicaraguan, mexican, ecuadorian, _american_... and say "well, we think these might be Cuban... and you have to prove otherwise, even though you have absolutely no way of doing so"?
> 
> That is some ****ed-up shit right there.


Careful...if someone feels like you're expressing frustration with the government, they're likely to tattle on you.


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## Perfecto Dave (Nov 24, 2009)

No one is tattling....just look at my avatar. Eyes are everywhere! :behindsofa:


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## TonyBrooklyn (Jan 28, 2010)

gehrig97 said:


> Hey Tony,
> 
> This IS interesting. So, hypothetically speaking, let's say a US citizen was returning from Europe with some cigars in a plastic bag--no bands, no box. Could customs then confiscate these cigars and require that the citizen prove they AREN'T of Cuban origin?
> 
> Hope all is well with you!


Hey Bro long time no see yes all is well thanks for asking.
I hope you and yours are the same.
Yes that's exactly right removing bands means nothing. That's why i never understood those that excepted cigars unbanded from vendors.
Nice to see you in this neck of the woods!
Don't be a stranger!
Peace my brother!


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## TonyBrooklyn (Jan 28, 2010)

gehrig97 said:


> So... they can confiscate unbanded cigars, cigars that give no indication of being illegal, cigars that could very well be dominican, nicaraguan, mexican, ecuadorian, _american_... and say "well, we think these might be Cuban... and you have to prove otherwise, even though you have absolutely no way of doing so"?
> 
> That is some ****ed-up shit right there.


They require a receipt for the cigars which is really easy to get at any B&M.


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## bpegler (Mar 30, 2006)

Interesting thread, but the premise is false.

Johnny O's are not rolled in this country.

As far as I can tell, John has never rolled a cigar in his life.


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## [OT] Loki (May 24, 2006)

tnlawyer said:


> He's right though. It's the importation that is the crime. Of course, if they catch you in possession, they would probably allege that you had a hand in importing it and you'd probably have to prove otherwise. Best advice I can give to anyone thinking about importing, possessing, storing or smoking CC is to know the risks and decide for yourself whether it's worth the risks or not. If someone is worried about getting caught...
> View attachment 83602


you sure about that?

Here's the long version:

31 CFR Part 515 covers the embargo. The Treasury Department has an overview here, which states in part:

The Regulations prohibit any person subject to U.S. jurisdiction from dealing in any property in which Cuba or a Cuban national has or has had any interest. Under the Regulations, "property" is very broadly defined and includes such things as contracts and services. For example, unless authorized, persons subject to U.S. jurisdiction (including U.S. overseas subsidiaries) may not purchase Cuban cigars in third countries; may not sign a contract with a foreign firm if the contract terms include Cuba-related provisions, even if those provisions are contingent upon the lifting of the embargo; and may not provide accounting, marketing, sales, or insurance services to a Cuban company or to a foreign company with respect to the foreign company's Cuba-related business.

There is also this page on the Customs and Border Patrol site that states:

The revival of interest in cigars and cigar smoking underscores the need to remind the public of the prohibitions that have been in place for many years with respect to cigars of Cuban origin. The number of attempted importations of Cuban cigars into the United States is rising and because dealing in such cigars may lead to Treasury enforcement actions, the public should be aware of - and make every effort to observe - the prohibitions which are in effect.

There is a total ban on the importation into the United States of Cuban-origin cigars and other Cuban-origin tobacco products. This prohibition extends to such products acquired in Cuba, irrespective of whether a traveler is licensed by Office of Foreign Asset Controls (OFAC) to engage in Cuba travel-related transactions, and to such products acquired in third countries by any U.S. Traveler, including purchases at duty-free shops. Contrary to what many people may believe, it is illegal for travelers to bring into the United States Cuban cigars acquired in third countries, such as Canada, United Kingdom, or Mexico.

Importation of Cuban-origin cigars and other Cuban-origin tobacco products is prohibited whether the goods are purchased by the importer or given to the importer as a gift. Similarly, the import ban extends to Cuban-origin cigars and other Cuban-origin tobacco products offered for sale over the Internet or through a catalog.

It is also illegal for U.S. persons to buy, sell, trade, or otherwise engage in transactions involving illegally-imported Cuban cigars. The penalties for doing so include, in addition to confiscation of the cigars, civil fines of up to $55,000 per violation and in appropriate cases, criminal prosecution which may result in higher fines and/or imprisonment.

These prohibitions are applicable to all goods of Cuban origin and are an important element of the comprehensive program of economic sanctions against the Cuban Government which have been in place since 1963. Those sanctions have had the support of the last seven Administrations.


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## tnlawyer (Jul 17, 2013)

[OT] Loki said:


> you sure about that?
> 
> Here's the long version:
> 
> ...


Don't see any reference to possession. Import, buy, sell, trade, and engage in transactions are all mentioned, but possession is not.


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## huskers (Oct 2, 2012)

bpegler said:


> Interesting thread, but the premise is false.
> 
> Johnny O's are not rolled in this country.
> 
> As far as I can tell, John has never rolled a cigar in his life.


REALLY?

That contradicts a lot that I have heard from people that know him personally.

EDIT:no clue who actually rolls them but I have been told by numerous sources that they are rolled in the US.


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## bpegler (Mar 30, 2006)

huskers said:


> REALLY?
> 
> That contradicts a lot that I have heard from people that know him personally.


According to John, all his cigars are rolled in Cuba. He rolls none of them. That's from the horses mouth.


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## huskers (Oct 2, 2012)

bpegler said:


> According to John, all his cigars are rolled in Cuba. He rolls none of them. That's from the horses mouth.


Well yea, of course hes going to say they are rolled in cuba, he would be an idiot to say otherwise since these reportedly have Cuban tobacco in them.

I doubt that he would want the unwanted attention of big brother.


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## bpegler (Mar 30, 2006)

huskers said:


> Well yea, of course hes going to say they are rolled in cuba, he would be an idiot to say otherwise since these reportedly have Cuban tobacco in them.
> 
> I doubt that he would want the unwanted attention of big brother.


He is very specific about who rolls his cigars and where they are rolled. He's not hard to reach, just ask him yourself.


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## Ky70 (Aug 21, 2012)

huskers said:


> There is no possibly.........my statement was 100% factual, trust me on this one.


You really are missing the point of my statement but carry on...


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