# Foreign pressure on Congress begins



## txmatt (May 22, 2004)

This blurb is taken from CigarCyclopedia.com News & Views:

Los Angeles, August 15 - "The U.S. Congress and the Senate should recognize the damage this measure does to Nicaragua in its fight against poverty."

So says Freddy Torres, a member of the Nicaraguan Assembly who also sits on the Assembly's economic commission. The Assembly sent a declaration objecting to Congressional plans for a major tax hike on premium cigars, noting the damage it would do to Nicaragua.

According to Torres, "This measure will prejudice thousands of workers in the tobacco growing and cigar making industry." He estimated that between 70,000 and 100,000 workers would be impacted, depending on the nature of the tax hike.

The financial impact to Nicaragua alone could reach $60 million U.S., with 69 percent of all Nicaraguan cigar exports destined for the U.S., by far the world's largest cigar market.

Estimates from U.S. cigar industry sources of the number of people in the Caribbean cigar-making countries - including the Dominican Republic, Honduras, Jamaica, Mexico and Nicaragua - who could be seriously impacted by a major Federal tax hike on cigars in the U.S. could be as high as 250,000. *Major U.S. cigar manufacturers and distributors such as Altadis U.S.A., General Cigar, J. C. Newman and others are bringing elected officials from the affected countries directly to Washington, D.C. during the August recess to speak with Representatives and Senators to underscore the impact that a major tax hike on cigars would have*.

The part I made bold there seems like a good move to me. This measure really caught the cigar industry and its lobbyists off guard. Adding some international pressure is great.


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## Teninx (Apr 23, 2006)

As much as I applaud any opposition to new taxes on cigars, I would hope that members of Congress would cast thier votes to reflect the best interest of America, not the protests of foreign governments.


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## txmatt (May 22, 2004)

Teninx said:


> As much as I applaud any opposition to new taxes on cigars, I would hope that members of Congress would cast thier votes to reflect the best interest of America, not the protests of foreign governments.


Unfortunately that is not what Congress does. They are a "Parliament of Whores" and will always be. Actually John T. Kennedy argues well that calling Congress "whores" is unfair because a whore will not force their services upon you.

The party that tries to minimize government's size, role, and reach is the one that gets my vote.


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## hoax (Aug 7, 2007)

Teninx said:


> As much as I applaud any opposition to new taxes on cigars, I would hope that members of Congress would cast thier votes to reflect the best interest of America, not the protests of foreign governments.


Protecting the financial stability of our neighbors is in our best interest.


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## Coffee Grounds (Feb 14, 2007)

Teninx said:


> As much as I applaud any opposition to new taxes on cigars, I would hope that members of Congress would cast thier votes to reflect the best interest of America, not the protests of foreign governments.


You make a valid point.
Now I do think we should listen to foreign governments when we are dicussing issues of trade and economics. We don't have to do what they want but we should be open to compromise with a trading partner.

We should never compromise when it comes to security.

I really do not think this bill will go through as it stands.


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## cman78 (May 12, 2007)

Teninx said:


> As much as I applaud any opposition to new taxes on cigars, I would hope that members of Congress would cast thier votes to reflect the best interest of America, not the protests of foreign governments.


I agree let's get all those auto manufacturing jobs back we let go to Mexico (NAFTA) and let's stop outsourcing phone support to countries overseas... I could go on. /end rant.


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## hova45 (Jun 17, 2007)

its about time someone else stepped in and helped the fight against this unjust tax, if they want to fund this insurance for kids they should stop all the pork spending and stop the war then it could easily be funded and in general healthcare should be free like in Europe and Canada.


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## Big_Boy Stogie (Jul 20, 2007)

hova45 said:


> its about time someone else stepped in and helped the fight against this unjust tax, if they want to fund this insurance for kids they should stop all the pork spending and stop the war then it could easily be funded and in general healthcare should be free like in Europe and Canada.


Do you really think that it is free in Europe and Canada? They are paying for it by means of higher tax rates, stagnant economy, etc. However I do agree with you in regards to pork spending (both sides dem and rep).


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## txmatt (May 22, 2004)

Big_Boy Stogie said:


> Do you really think that it is free in Europe and Canada? They are paying for it by means of higher tax rates, stagnant economy, etc. However I do agree with you in regards to pork spending (both sides dem and rep).


:tpd: gotta love how many are spinning it as "free".

One third of my paycheck goes to the government; I am not going to see a cent of the money going to the soon-to-be bankrupt Social Security program. The government is managing to bankrupt that program but we are to believe they are capable of providing our citizens (and 14 million illegal immigrants) with health care in a fiscally responsible fashion?

The only way I can see the fed being able to accomplish this is if they declare themselves immune to malpractice suits as the F&*#@% up tort law in this nation keeps health care costs so high. Can you imagine if your tax went up every time an overworked & underpaid Fed health care employee screws up? What will the new term to replace "going postal" be?

If you think there is pork now just wait to see what they sneak in if medicine is socialized.. This proposed "Children's Healthcare" plan is to cover 25 years olds! Besides not being able to trust Congress with your tax dollars, just think about all the ways citizens will try to exploit "free" health care. The government took decades to get welfare exploitation under control..


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## macjoe53 (Jul 8, 2007)

txmatt said:


> :tpd: gotta love how many are spinning it as "free".
> 
> One third of my paycheck goes to the government; *I am not going to see a cent of the money going to the soon-to-be bankrupt Social Security program.* The government is managing to bankrupt that program but we are to believe they are capable of providing our citizens (and 14 million illegal immigrants) with health care in a fiscally responsible fashion?
> 
> ...


I find it interesting that the big pushers behind the SCHIP is the Democratic Party. If my memory serves me well, it was the Democratic Party which pushed for and got the initiative passed which allowed the government to tap into Social Security money for other purposes. If our Social Security dollars were protected as they once were, it would not be in danger.

Second, what makes you think that welfare exploitation is under control now.


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## c2000 (Oct 16, 2003)

txmatt said:


> :tpd: gotta love how many are spinning it as "free".
> 
> One third of my paycheck goes to the government; I am not going to see a cent of the money going to the soon-to-be bankrupt Social Security program. The government is managing to bankrupt that program but we are to believe they are capable of providing our citizens (and 14 million illegal immigrants) with health care in a fiscally responsible fashion?
> 
> ...


Right on.........Believe me you do not want universal health care,, you would be put on a waiting list to see a DR.. And as far as social security is concerned they will be still dicking around with second hand smoke issues and non binding war resolutions when they get the news that its broke..The people in this country vote these idiots in based on if they are a dem or a republican and not for what they can do in government and no candidate can get elected if he/she tells it like it is..

I see the ads for this kiddie insurance program,,what they don't tell you is mom and dad can make up to 80k and the kid still qualifies for free medical..

Jerry in Minnesota


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## smokinpoke (Apr 8, 2006)

I have to begin with Kharma is a B!tch.....remember Katrina and our neighbors to the south pitched in and offered aid. Take away a quarter million jobs from those countries and see how much help we get. 

Next will be the black market. I mean you can get anything FED EXed or UPSed to your house. Do they really think that $10 a pop will stop cigar smoking. I have been on this board long enough to know that there are alot of creative individuals. 

I wouldn't oppose a tax of say upto $1 but $10 come on that's ludicris


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## kvm (Sep 7, 2005)

I think your right Matt. The extra pressure can only help.



c2000 said:


> Right on.........Believe me you do not want universal health care,, you would be put on a waiting list to see a DR.. And as far as social security is concerned they will be still dicking around with second hand smoke issues and non binding war resolutions when they get the news that its broke..The people in this country vote these idiots in based on if they are a dem or a republican and not for what they can do in government and no candidate can get elected if he/she tells it like it is..
> I see the ads for this kiddie insurance program,,what they don't tell you is mom and dad can make up to 80k and the kid still qualifies for free medical..
> 
> Jerry in Minnesota


True....it would be nice if more people ignored parties when they voted.


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## RaiderinKS (May 10, 2007)

cman78 said:


> I agree let's get all those auto manufacturing jobs back we let go to Mexico (NAFTA) and let's stop outsourcing phone support to countries overseas... I could go on. /end rant.


I am always amazed at this argument. People with less training and paid a significantly lower wage can do the same job better and/or more efficiently, but yeah, lets cry about the americans that lost their jobs. Get an education!


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## hova45 (Jun 17, 2007)

Big_Boy Stogie said:


> Do you really think that it is free in Europe and Canada? They are paying for it by means of higher tax rates, stagnant economy, etc. However I do agree with you in regards to pork spending (both sides dem and rep).


Trust me I know, my family has a house in France and I am the one who pays the taxes their. But the system works and i think it is worth it and it isn't as bad as what we pay in taxes.


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## Habanolover (Feb 22, 2006)

RaiderinKS said:


> I am always amazed at this argument. People with less training and paid a significantly lower wage can do the same job better and/or more efficiently, but yeah, lets cry about the americans that lost their jobs. *Get an education!*


Easy bro. Coming awfully close to crossing the line.:2


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## hova45 (Jun 17, 2007)

madurolover said:


> Easy bro. Coming awfully close to crossing the line.:2


agreed:2


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## Blueface (May 28, 2005)

Teninx said:


> As much as I applaud any opposition to new taxes on cigars, I would hope that members of Congress would cast thier votes to reflect the best interest of America, not the protests of foreign governments.


Couldn't agree with you more but unfortunately, not a reality we will see.


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## Sisyphus (Oct 9, 2005)

kvm said:


> it would be nice if more people ignored parties when they voted.


It would also be nice if more of our elected officials would quit being such partisan lemmings and began to think for themselves. I get so tired of hearing the usual "talking points" coming from both sides....

-Ken


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## Blueface (May 28, 2005)

Sisyphus said:


> I get so tired of hearing the usual "talking points" coming from both sides....
> 
> -Ken


I guess I am not alone.......
Seems the same rhetoric is spilled election after election. If it doesn't get addressed post the election, blame it on the other side seems to be a good response.


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## dayplanner (Dec 11, 1997)

I think the "system" is the problem. If, instead of hundreds of corrupt and power-hungry members of Congress, Senators, governors and other elected officials there were a monarchy in place, the people who run the country could stop having to bullshit everybody all the time and get some work done and stop throwing the taxpayers' money away.


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## maddman (May 24, 2007)

hova45 said:


> Trust me I know, my family has a house in France and I am the one who pays the taxes their. But the system works and i think it is worth it and it isn't as bad as what we pay in taxes.


So you want to have two insurances than like in France? The Gov of France pays for 40% of your health care it up to you for the rest, So most people have another insurance to off set the 60% they have to pay. There are too many socialized programs as it is in this nation. Small Fed Gov is what this nation was founded on but some people insist on throwing their rights away.

You allow the Government to proved health care they could ban Tobacco, Butter, Hamburgers, fast food, Alcohol (again),Motorcycles, cant drive your own car, firearms, sharp pointy objects, because its all for your health since you are now ward to the Federal Government. why allow them more power?

Why should I trust you? You want to take my rights away, what you own a house in France and must be more worldly than I so must know whats best for me. If the State of NY wants state health care they can have it. Hova you have to remeber Tax is not just income tax but multiple sales taxes aswell. In America you can import just about anything and not worry about getting a letter saying you owe the Feds $10000 on $200 worth of goods, the feds have a $0.05+XX% state tax on Cigars when Canada has a Fed tax XX% Provence tax XX% equaling about 60% all over Canada.


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## SmokeyJoe (Oct 3, 2006)

o Be interesting to see how this all plays out... lot of different interests here. Even if you don't like the idea of foreign pressure, ultimately the health of these countries economies affects us - one way or another. :ss


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## macjoe53 (Jul 8, 2007)

Claudius said:


> I think the "system" is the problem. If, instead of hundreds of corrupt and power-hungry members of Congress, Senators, governors and other elected officials there were a monarchy in place, the people who run the country could stop having to bullshit everybody all the time and get some work done and stop throwing the taxpayers' money away.


Yeah. Right. All the monarchies in the world have been benevolent societies. That's why eveyone wants a monarchy. Even the greatest in the world is now a representative government with elected members of Parliment.


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