# wineador humidity problem



## evmedievalol (Mar 27, 2015)

Hello,
I recently had my 6 bottle Thermoelectric wineador set up. Everything was good until couple of days ago.
The temperature is consistently reading at 62 F but the humidity is rising up to 72~74 %...
i think it might have rose up after i added 15 cigars inside. Before, it read 63% for couple of days before i added.
I have probably 1/2 lbs of HF beads almost dried and little over 1/2 lbs of kitty litter dried.
And little over 20 cigars inside.
What's causing the humidity to rise?

P.s. if i keep the door open, the humidity rises above80%

I heard that the drain plug needs to be plugged??? is that right?


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## elco69 (May 1, 2013)

yes cover the drain plug....let it set for couple days and keep an eye on the rh


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## evmedievalol (Mar 27, 2015)

hmm its weird. I did more research and some people are saying mold builds up in the drain plug or there's condensation build up.
Also, some are saying covering the drain plug actually raises the rH... 
I don't know which one to go for..


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## AuTechCoM (Jan 13, 2014)

I don't think you have a problem involving the drain plug. However I am concerned about the 50:50 heartfelt/kitty litter mix. 

KL is not guaranteed like the HF to stay at one RH level. And I have heard of KL needing to be reconditioned to the correct RH through drying it out


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## elco69 (May 1, 2013)

AuTechCoM said:


> I don't think you have a problem involving the drain plug. However I am concerned about the 50:50 heartfelt/kitty litter mix.
> 
> KL is not guaranteed like the HF to stay at one RH level. And I have heard of KL needing to be reconditioned to the correct RH through drying it out


I just noticed the KL part of the original post. Just pull the kitty litter out and leave the HF beads. 1/2lb is more than enough for that small wineador. I use 1lb of HF in my "28 bottle" wineador


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## evmedievalol (Mar 27, 2015)

I frequently open the door so more beads would help recover RH.
I placed a small pouch of KL and ziplock bag layed down on top of the drain hole. After 4hrs, rH dropped to 67%...!! I would have to see if the rH sits here consistently. hope it doesn't rise up again.

I got a question. Does water actually build up inside the thermoelectric wine cooler that you need a drain plug? If so, then it sounds like the small pouch is going to get wet over time..


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## gtechva (Mar 9, 2014)

Any media can only absorb so much. Once that happens, any new humidity (high rh cigars, opening door in high rh), can't be taken care of. Kitty litter can be put in the microwave for about 2.5 minutes to pull out moisture. You'll want to let it set a minute to cool. Of course, there is a risk of drawing the rh down too much if you dry a lot of kl or add a lot of dry kl.


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## JMatt (Apr 9, 2015)

When you added the 15 cigars, they were at room temperature. When the temperature was reduced to 62 inside, the RH of the cigars would naturally increase and cause a rise because 70% RH of a temperature of say 70 degrees is more moisture than 70% of 62 degrees. it will take time to lose that moisture in the cigars. Patience is required. They will stabilize at the new temperature if you had it at 62 and wait long enough. The moisture came from the cigars and sometimes even from outside air since the temperature is different inside versus outside. It is not unusual for the humidity to rise temporarily when opening a wineador that is set to 62 degrees especially if the temperature outside the door is 70 or above. The KL or beads will bring it down with patience.


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## gtechva (Mar 9, 2014)

"You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to JMatt again."


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## CPT (Apr 26, 2015)

I agree, one or the other. HF is a two way while KL is one. Also if you are using KL you have to "train" it.


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## JMatt (Apr 9, 2015)

CPT,

It is my experience that KL is 2 way if it is silica crystals. It will seek an equilibrium with moisture in the air until it is either saturated over time in the case of 100% RH in the surrounding air or completely dry because of 0%RH in the surrounding air. It does not happen quickly but given enough time one can prove it both absorbs and desorbs moisture especially between the ranges of 50-80%RH depending on its (KL) RH and the RH of the surrounding air.


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## CPT (Apr 26, 2015)

JMatt said:


> CPT,
> 
> It is my experience that KL is 2 way if it is silica crystals. It will seek an equilibrium with moisture in the air until it is either saturated over time in the case of 100% RH in the surrounding air or completely dry because of 0%RH in the surrounding air. It does not happen quickly but given enough time one can prove it both absorbs and desorbs moisture especially between the ranges of 50-80%RH depending on its (KL) RH and the RH of the surrounding air.


Ok thanks for the info. I will have to look more into sense I read from someone who seemed to be pretty knowledgeable saying it was a 1 way. I appreciate the learning experience. I personally have only used crystals/boveda/HF so idk about KL except what I read.


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## AuTechCoM (Jan 13, 2014)

JMatt said:


> When you added the 15 cigars, they were at room temperature. When the temperature was reduced to 62 inside, the RH of the cigars would naturally increase and cause a rise because 70% RH of a temperature of say 70 degrees is more moisture than 70% of 62 degrees. it will take time to lose that moisture in the cigars. Patience is required. They will stabilize at the new temperature if you had it at 62 and wait long enough. The moisture came from the cigars and sometimes even from outside air since the temperature is different inside versus outside. It is not unusual for the humidity to rise temporarily when opening a wineador that is set to 62 degrees especially if the temperature outside the door is 70 or above. The KL or beads will bring it down with patience.


This is a great point. There is one more thing to take into account.

If you are set at 62°F, and your cigars were >77°F this could cause condensation at they pass the dew point.

I work in table grapes and the reason we pre-cool grapes as they come in from the field is to control this condensation. The average rule of thumb is if there is a difference of 15°F there will be condensation.

I am not sure what the climate is where you are. But here in So Cal it is entirely possible for cigars to be that much hotter.


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## evmedievalol (Mar 27, 2015)

Ah! Pre-cooling the new cigars is such a great idea. I should do that from now on.

I did microwave the KL for 30 secs~1 min but never knew that they needed to be microwaved for 2.5 mins.. 

Could someone help me out with this question? Does water actually build up inside the thermoelectric wine cooler that you need a drain plug? The temp. is at 63 F.
If so, then it sounds like the small pouch is going to get wet over time..


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## AuTechCoM (Jan 13, 2014)

evmedievalol said:


> Ah! Pre-cooling the new cigars is such a great idea. I should do that from now on.
> 
> I did microwave the KL for 30 secs~1 min but never knew that they needed to be microwaved for 2.5 mins..
> 
> ...


Yes. They use a thermoelectric peltier which can freeze solid with ice. That will melt when the unit switches off and will need somewhere to go...

I should mention that I am not an expert. There are many others more knowledgeable than myself


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## gtechva (Mar 9, 2014)

The time you wave the kl isn't dead set. You just want the moisture to come out. If you put a glass bowl upside down over the kl, you'll see the moisture collect on the bowl above the kl. I've read 3 minutes, but my kl was tied up in a piece of pantyhose and got hot enough to melt the hose if let too long. As someone else said, kl has to be "trained". There is no formula for it. Where I live, in the humidity of the summer, it may have to be dried out some. In the dry inside air of winter, especially in a wooden humidor, moisture will have to be introduced. In a tupperdore, when you find the spot, it's just there and stays. If I ever find myself without a wooden humi, I doubt I get another.

Also not an expert. I don't play one on tv, and I didn't stay at a Holiday Inn Select last night.


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## JMatt (Apr 9, 2015)

If you will check under troubleshooting in your manual, you will usually find a problem identified as "Moisture forms on inside wine cooler walls." (or something similar) Its not uncommon.
The problem could be any of these things...
1. Door is slightly open.
2. Door is kept open too long, or is opened too frequently. Open the door less often. 
3. The air temperature outside is holding more moisture because of temperature even though it reads less RH outside.
4. Door seal is leaking
Condensation inside can be a problem with these units. Having sufficient material to absorb excess moisture and opening the door less often and for shorter periods is a good idea. I would suggest one Double up on your beads/KL/Boveda or whatever you choose to use to help avoid this problem.


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