# Any details on Cigar Bids "Nicaraguan '90' Rated 2nds'?



## rah0785 (Jan 17, 2011)

.....does anyone have any idea what brand they could be 2nds of? I went through Cigar Aficionado's top rated cigars over the past 2 years. These names popped up more then once: Carlos Torano, Don Pepin Garcia, Oliva, Padron, Perdomo, and Rocky Patel all had 90+ Rated lines made in Nicaragua. "Boutique factory run by one of the cigar industry's premier cigar-making families". Don Pepin Garcia had many Top 25 blends. Any more intelligent details would be greatly appreciated.

Nicaraguan 90+ Rated 2nds hail from one of Nicaragua's premier boutique factories. A factory run by one of the industry's premier cigar-making families. The home of countless 90+ rated cigars, including Top 25 Cigar recipients. These cigars come from the standard production of the factory's premium blends. Blends you burn regularly and enjoy often. They use the same superior, aged tobaccos, skillfully blended to produce delicious layers of flavor folks like you and I crave. The only difference is....these cigars were removed from the sorting line at the last possible moment, due to slight variances in color, or a sun spot here or there. They perform and taste just like firsts, because they practically are firsts. So much so, you'll likely figure it out just by burning a few.

....Nicaraguan cigar brands/lines-
1608
420's
5 Vegas
A. Fernandez Signature Series
Bahia
Black Pearl Morado
Bossner Reserva
BrickHouse 
Limited Ed.
Bucanero
Casa Magna Colorado 
C.A.
Cabaiguan
C.E. Beck y Cia
Camaguey
Carlos Torano
Casa de Nicaragua
Casa de Torres
Charatan
Chinchalero
Churchill Nicaragua
Cuban Crafters
Cucaracha
Cupido
Cumpay
Don Kiki
Don Fernando's
Don Pepin Garcia 
Drew Estate
Dunhill (Signed Range)
El Fenicio
EO Premium 601 Serie
Flor de Jalapa
Garo Habano
Guillen cigars
J.L. Salazar y Hermanos
Jose Carlos Cigars
Joya de Nicaragua
Juan Lopez
La Caridad Del Cobre
La Carolina 
La Aroma de Cuba Edicion Especial
La Aroma de Cuba Mi Amor
La Rica
Lochem Cigars
Man O' War
Mombacho
Nestor Plasencia
Nicaragua Habanos
Nub
Old Henry
Olivia
Padilla Studio Tobac
Padron
Paul Vato Cigars
Perdomo
Reinado
Rocky Patel
Troya Clasico
Quorum
Salute to Arms
Savinelli Special Edition 2005
Tony Alvarez
Vegas de Tabacalera Esteli
My Father
Tabacos Baez
Warlock


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## exprime8 (May 16, 2011)

I wouldnt be surprised if it was a Rocky Patel, he has dozens of seconds!!!


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## rah0785 (Jan 17, 2011)

.....ALSO, has anyone smoked the J Fuego *ROYAL NICARAGUAN OSCURO & SUMATRA* lines? Not a real cheapo as 20 of the 7x50 sell for $59.95 at Cigar.com. Looking for some input so I can set my MAX BID at the correct amount. Of course the product details at Cigar.com describe two magnificent stogies.
Royal Nicaraguan Oscuro by Jesus Fuego 
Cigar size: 7" x 50
You can't go wrong with a name like Jesus Fuego...
The Fuego tobacco history traces back to when the family started growing leaf in Cuba in 1857. It was in Cuba they remained until leaving the country in 1995 to make their home in Central America. And after working in Central America until 2006, it was time that Jesus Fuego started making his cigars and thus the J. Fuego brand was launched.
Looking for a tasty smoke that won't break the bank? Look no further! Royal Nicaraguan is an excellent brand with a dark, oily Oscuro wrapper. Notes of dark chocolate and spice round out a long mouth-watering finish that will please any enthusiast.

Royal Nicaraguan Sumatra by Jesus Fuego 
Cigar size: 6.5" x 52
Royal Nicaraguan adds a little value to the Fuego lines. Wrapped in a savory Sumatra wrapper, the blend exudes notes of black pepper and earth with a crisp finish. Medium in body, the blend is best enjoyed as an end-of-the-day treat and pairs well with any rum or scotch.


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## eNthusiast (Dec 4, 2009)

Rah... I've smoked the oscuros, and they are pretty good witH some rest. I bought them at famous for $2 a piece. I've also smoked they Colorado which I assume would be the sumatas, and I don't recommend them, not much flavor. The oscuros are probably a strong medium with floral notes with spice and cocoa.


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## rah0785 (Jan 17, 2011)

eNthusiast said:


> Rah... I've smoked the oscuros, and they are pretty good witH some rest. I bought them at famous for $2 a piece. I've also smoked they Colorado which I assume would be the sumatas, and I don't recommend them, not much flavor. The oscuros are probably a strong medium with floral notes with spice and cocoa.


thanks a lot. I will lower my max bid on the sumatra.


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## familystone (Feb 23, 2012)

Yea, but aren't all of RP's seconds stated as such? He doesn't seem to mind declaring that you are buying seconds from his factory whereas these were mysteriously devoid of such info. I bought a pack of these but have yet to smoke any.


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## rah0785 (Jan 17, 2011)

familystone said:


> Yea, but aren't all of RP's seconds stated as such? He doesn't seem to mind declaring that you are buying seconds from his factory whereas these were mysteriously devoid of such info. I bought a pack of these but have yet to smoke any.


.....Ya, the sell plenty of RP Vintage 2nds. I won the "TORO", 15 for $28.00. What wrapper are yours? Pic looks like maduro. If these are actually '90' Rated 2nds, they should at least be a 'good' smoke. Although it is a bit LAME a company won't put their name on such fine cigars like Alec Bradley, La Aurora, Punch, Rocky Patel, Perdomo, etc.


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## familystone (Feb 23, 2012)

I, too, got the 15 mazo toro size with a maddy wrapper. However, I got mine about a month ago on CI for 19.50. I wondered if it was just the company keeping up appearances by not selling anything but excellence so they didn't want their name used, but yeah it's a bit frustrating to not know what it is.


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## rah0785 (Jan 17, 2011)

.....How about *ROMEO y JULIETA HABANA RESERVE CHURCHILL (7" x 54)*. I know someone has enjoyed one of these. Very good, good, or just average. The last RyJ I smoked was the Edicion Limitada No.2 Belicoso (6" x 52). Was 'good', but not worth a $5per 2nd buy. Any info on the Habana Reserve on Free Fall would be GREATLY appreciated.
Romeo u Julieta Habana Reserve Churchill - 10 Cigars (#1246201) - CigarBid.com


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## rx2man (Dec 4, 2011)

Does'nt the logo look like the Alec Bradley 2nds?

Alec Bradley 90+ Rated 2nds - Cigars International

I did the CI deal last mo. Got 2 and they are still resting. Guess its getting time to try one.


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## ghe-cl (Apr 9, 2005)

I think you're jumping to the mistaken conclusion that the 90+ rating refers to Cigar Aficionado. Nothing says that and, in fact, it appears that 90+2nds is simply the name of the cigars. Some cigar retailers often use a numerical "rating" to mislead consumers into thinking it's a CA rating. Also, consider this. Could a boutique manufacturer, who obviously deals in small numbers of cigars to start with, really afford to have so many seconds come off the line that they can be sold as a regular, continuing item by a cigar catalog giant?


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## familystone (Feb 23, 2012)

It states pretty clearly that it is from the industry's premier boutique factory with 90+ rated cigars, including Top 25 Cigar recipients and by producing over 4k cigars a day (1.5 million cigars a year/365) I'm sure there are quite a few rejects depending on how stringent the sorting process is.


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## Strange (May 30, 2012)

I'm inclined to agree to some extent.
It also occurred to me that packaging is such an expense, that, when eliminated it would dramatically reduce their overhead thus allowing them to discount them deeply. I would like to know about those cigars too. I have been really happy with RP 1990 vintage 2nds, but the RP OWR's not so good! Have seen some Alec Bradleys that they don't indicate exactly which blend they are.... But that just adds to the mystery and sense of urgency!!


ghe said:


> I think you're jumping to the mistaken conclusion that the 90+ rating refers to Cigar Aficionado. Nothing says that and, in fact, it appears that 90+2nds is simply the name of the cigars. Some cigar retailers often use a numerical "rating" to mislead consumers into thinking it's a CA rating. Also, consider this. Could a boutique manufacturer, who obviously deals in small numbers of cigars to start with, really afford to have so many seconds come off the line that they can be sold as a regular, continuing item by a cigar catalog giant?


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## snagstangl (Aug 21, 2010)

i read on another site that they were Olivia G series.


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## BigSaucy (Jul 26, 2012)

snagstangl said:


> i read on another site that they were Olivia G series.


Hi, this is my first post here.

I'm inclined to agree that it's the Oliva G Maduro. I just smoked one of the 90+ Nicaraguan 2nds right out of the CI shipping box and it was remarkably similar... I consider that a very good thing especially considering the price (15 Robusto's for $20 on special). The Series G Maduro's leave a very identifiable sweet taste on the lips. Makes me wonder if they enhance or infuse the wrapper.

The burn was cool, quite sharp if a bit quick and didn't require touch ups. I got a stable 1.25" light grey ash.


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## LenniLenape (Sep 30, 2012)

I'm near certain that they're Oliva 'Serie O'.

They're the only line of the major producers' that match up to the sizes offered spot on.

I'm 'sticking' to the "Ligero Laced" Nicaraguans aka "Cain"s.

Happy smoke trails.


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## splattttttt (May 17, 2012)

rx2man said:


> Does'nt the logo look like the Alec Bradley 2nds?
> 
> Alec Bradley 90+ Rated 2nds - Cigars International
> 
> I did the CI deal last mo. Got 2 and they are still resting. Guess its getting time to try one.


totally :thumb:


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## Gatorfan (Jun 4, 2012)

The churchhills I have are a very nice maduro. Better than many of my firsts!


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## rx2man (Dec 4, 2011)

This post has been driving me nuts. I know the label looks like the ones from AB, but they already have line of 2nds so why would they need another. Olivas have been mentioned. Click the link they have a crap load of 90+ ratings. They also mentioned Oliva G elsewhere. I have a O G somewhere and I guess its time to fire em up and compare..

Oliva Cigar

Oliva Cigar


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## rx2man (Dec 4, 2011)

This link..... Oliva Cigar 2nd article talks about their 2 factories, one in Nic, the other in Hon. The Hon factory ships everything to Nic where everything is sent from. The stuff from the Hon factory is the bundles. Their really good stuff comes from Nicaragua.......which I am sure most of you already know.


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## unklbrad (Jan 1, 2011)

LenniLenape said:


> I'm near certain that they're Oliva 'Serie O'.
> 
> They're the only line of the major producers' that match up to the sizes offered spot on.
> 
> ...


I concur. I got a mazo of the 6 x 60 Nicaraguan 90+ Rated 2nds Toro Gordo, and I am convinced they are Oliva Serie 'O' Maduro Double Toros. At two bucks a log, you can't go wrong.


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## Cigar Noob (May 22, 2011)

I got the 2nd Lanceros. THey aren't Oliva products IMO. That is what they want you to believe but I'm not buying it as much as I was before picking them up. Still solid, great construction for a $2 lancero and have been OK. I've had one a month but will be waiting a bit longer to see if they improve.


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## rx2man (Dec 4, 2011)

Cigar Noob said:


> I got the 2nd Lanceros. THey aren't Oliva products IMO. That is what they want you to believe but I'm not buying it as much as I was before picking them up. Still solid, great construction for a $2 lancero and have been OK. I've had one a month but will be waiting a bit longer to see if they improve.


I think OK would be in apt description......as I think the Oliva line is OK. As with many other "premium" cigars I have had I only felt they were ok and price was not comensurate with quality. 3-4 weeks ago I went through the humi and picked up some "yard gars" I had been sitting on "knowing" I would light em up and toss em. You know what they were 2 of the better sticks I have had. A LEC and a Don Lino Africa. Both had at least 8 mos on em and IMHO were some of the better sticks I have had even compared to sticks 5x the price........I probably just dont have any taste though and whatevere I do have is obviously not refined enough to even be writing on puff........LOL. happy puffing BOTLs & SOTLs


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## unklbrad (Jan 1, 2011)

Cigar Noob said:


> I got the 2nd Lanceros. THey aren't Oliva products IMO. That is what they want you to believe but I'm not buying it as much as I was before picking them up. Still solid, great construction for a $2 lancero and have been OK. I've had one a month but will be waiting a bit longer to see if they improve.


Maybe yours aren't Olivas. Mine look, feel and smoke just like Olivas. It even had a vitola label identical to what comes in a 5-pack of Nub. I'm 98% sure of what mine are, but because I already have literally hundreds of better cigars I'm not going to go buy a "real" one to compare. I just tried these for the ring guage and am satisfied with my purchase.


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## Al Prufrock (Nov 23, 2012)

When I saw it, I thought they might be Padron seconds. I did order some so will weigh in some time in the future.
/Al Prufrock on Ocracoke Island


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## nillorset (Sep 21, 2012)

If you talking about the ligero laced ones.. Check out this link...
http://www.cigarforums.net/forums/v...042-nicaraguan-ligero-laced-2nds-decoded.html


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## Cigar Noob (May 22, 2011)

nillorset said:


> If you talking about the ligero laced ones.. Check out this link...


All that guy did was come to his own conclusion without much to support it so it really doesn't differ from what has been going on in this thread for many months before that thread was made. I have come to the conclusion that they are not Cain or Oliva products at all. I have the F lancero and they aren't Cain F, Dain Daytona, Cain, or Oliva V lanceros. I think the marketing is leading us to this they are, and they are probably designed to be similar but it doesn't pass the test for me. It seems some sware they are Oliva products so who really knows.

In this and the other thread Brooks mentions doing a comparison and the 2nds don't stack up.


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## nillorset (Sep 21, 2012)

Cigar Noob said:


> All that guy did was come to his own conclusion without much to support it so it really doesn't differ from what has been going on in this thread for many months before that thread was made. I have come to the conclusion that they are not Cain or Oliva products at all. I have the F lancero and they aren't Cain F, Dain Daytona, Cain, or Oliva V lanceros. I think the marketing is leading us to this they are, and they are probably designed to be similar but it doesn't pass the test for me. It seems some sware they are Oliva products so who really knows.
> 
> In this and the other thread Brooks mentions doing a comparison and the 2nds don't stack up.


I understand what brooks said.. And that was his opinion but my test that I have done.. They are the same sticks.. At least the ones I have tested. (All of the torpedoes of each). Compared, cracked open, and smoked.. Which I clearly explained in the linked thread.. But either way I did the test for myself and thought I would share....and everyone is entitled to there own conclusions.. If I am right or wrong.. In the end it doesn't really matter in the end.. I think they are good sticks for the price.

One of my friends only smoke cains/Olivia's and he swears that I am dead on with my my test. In fact he buys the 2nds as well now.. So.. Hey whatever works rite..

Everyone happy smoking..


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## Brookswphoto (Dec 25, 2008)

nillorset said:


> I understand what brooks said.. And that was his opinion but my test that I have done.. They are the same sticks.. At least the ones I have tested. (All of the torpedoes of each). Compared, cracked open, and smoked.. Which I clearly explained in the linked thread.. But either way I did the test for myself and thought I would share....and everyone is entitled to there own conclusions.. If I am right or wrong.. In the end it doesn't really matter in the end.. I think they are good sticks for the price.
> 
> One of my friends only smoke cains/Olivia's and he swears that I am dead on with my my test. In fact he buys the 2nds as well now.. So.. Hey whatever works rite..
> 
> Everyone happy smoking..


That is great, but the problem is that I proved beyond the shadow of a doubt that the Lanceros CAN NOT be Cain F Lanceros, because the obviously use two different wrappers.

Different wrappers = different blends = different cigars.

Note: I have not tested the torpedoes, so I can not conclusively say if they are the same or not....however, if one vitola is not the same, it stands to reason the others are not as well.


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## Cigar Noob (May 22, 2011)

Brookswphoto said:


> That is great, but the problem is that I proved beyond the shadow of a doubt that the Lanceros CAN NOT be Cain F Lanceros, because the obviously use two different wrappers.
> 
> Different wrappers = different blends = different cigars.
> 
> Note: I have not tested the torpedoes, so I can not conclusively say if they are the same or not....however, if one vitola is not the same, it stands to reason the others are not as well.


I too can say unequivocally that the lanceros have completely different wrappers. I have both on hand and there is no need for a side by side comparison because they are that different visually. Therefore, if one isn't Cain or any Oliva product, why would anyone believe that any of the other ones are? I am with Brooks on this one. My guess is they are not 2nds at all, just budget sticks out of a random factory, probably Fernandez with the relationship he has with General. Just a random guess on that though.


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## nillorset (Sep 21, 2012)

Cigar Noob said:


> I too can say unequivocally that the lanceros have completely different wrappers. I have both on hand and there is no need for a side by side comparison because they are that different visually. Therefore, if one isn't Cain or any Oliva product, why would anyone believe that any of the other ones are? I am with Brooks on this one. My guess is they are not 2nds at all, just budget sticks out of a random factory, probably Fernandez with the relationship he has with General. Just a random guess on that though.


I am not doubting your opinion on the Lanceros.. But again you cant base a whole line of product on your comparison of 1 type and style "the lancero - F's". The Lancero's arent F's therefore the F, D, M, and H's arent Cain. :lol:.. again you are basing your Cain comments soley on the Lanceros.



> That is great, but the problem is that I proved beyond the shadow of a doubt that the Lanceros CAN NOT be Cain F Lanceros.


What problem..So again as I stated above because you feel you proved that Lanceros cant be F's some how none of the offerings torpedo and ect.. cant be Cains...

The test I did was on the torpedos and my "opinion" was that they were the same.



> Note: I have not tested the torpedoes, so I can not conclusively say if they are the same or not....however, if one vitola is not the same, it stands to reason the others are not as well.


I beg to differ as the lancero could have been the odd man out on this.. who knows.. I confirmed for "myself" that the Torpedo F, M, H, and D's are all Cain's.. this would be a diffrent convo if i didnt have a mazo's of all of the torpedo 2nd's and the matching Cains torpedos.. and I smoke both types daily.. these are the facts here... I feel they are the same..

Let people descide on there own and and have fun with it. All of the "you proved & conclusively" stuff is your opinion and I have mine.. no one was sitting next to the rollers and confirming this as they were made.. so what diffrence does it make they are great sticks.. at least the torpedos are because they are the only ones smoke.

Where I take issue with is that you are saying without a resonable doubt that these (the 2nds) cant be Cain's and including the wholeline up in that thought.. because you feel the Lanceros dont match.. and thats simply bad information and not a reasonable conclusion.


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## mcwilcr (Jan 18, 2013)

I purchased a mazo of the 6 x 50 Toro size and they are a dead ringer visually speaking to the sun-grown Oliva series O I have in the humi, and they smell the same too unfortunately I have not smoked one though so I cant comment on the taste. Regardless if it actually is an Oliva 'O' the one I had smoked nice so I wouldn't rule out buying them again.


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## Brookswphoto (Dec 25, 2008)

nillorset said:


> Where I take issue with is that you are saying without a resonable doubt that these (the 2nds) cant be Cain's and including the wholeline up in that thought.. because you feel the Lanceros dont match.. and thats simply bad information and not a reasonable conclusion.


Dude, what part of

"Note: I have not tested the torpedoes, so I can not conclusively say if they are the same or not...."

don't you understand? That is the REASON I wrote that.


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## Gatorfan (Jun 4, 2012)

The churchhills I have are a great tasting, sweet medium bodied maduro. Don't know what they are but I like them.


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## Cigar Noob (May 22, 2011)

Jay, if you feel that all are Oliva except the one 2 people did a direct comparison with... that is your prerogative. My statement was I find that very hard to believe, not that it was impossible. If you truly think they are the same with the one item you sampled, more power to ya. Throw up some side-by-side pics, I'd like to see the comparison.

We have proven that one is not Oliva, yet you find it an insane reach to have an opinion that the rest aren't either? Good luck with that.


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## GruntmaN (May 18, 2011)

On the Ligero laced, the lancero is a dead ringer in the looks category to the Cain Daytona! I thought F at first too but when i compared the wrapper, there was no way. When i held up my Daytona lance next to it, identical!

On the 90+ rated 2nds, the toro gordo tastes a lot like Perdomo Habano maduro but doesnt seem to have the strength of that stick. I'm not familiar with the Oliva O mentioned above. I heard they were lighter bodied? My toro gordo's are 100% full flavor! Tons of spice, Pepin spice to be exact! But i can't place the stick. Way too much flavor to be a Cain Maduro. I haven't had the V in 6x60, I tend to prefer smaller vitolas. I got these as yard sticks assuming I would get some crap. i am more than pleasantly surprised. The stick i am having now is no doubt a $10+ stick!


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## nillorset (Sep 21, 2012)

Brooks no reason to be upset.. It's all love man...


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## Sabre One (Jul 3, 2013)

I have been experimenting with these for a while now (The Perfectos, Robustos, and Petite Coronas) after discovering them on Cigar International's web site. Here's my two cents. I am 99% sure of the following...

Robustos...Oliva Connecticut Reserve Rubusto, but a bit on the small size. Might be long Petite Coronas, but definately the Connecticut Reserve. Nice as a breaksfast cigar or at night after smoking too many full- bodied cigars during the day.

The Nicaraguan 90+ Petite Coronas are definately Oliva Special G's!

I am pretty darn sure the Perfectos are actually Oliva O Madro Robustos.

All in all, in spite of beings seconds, these are great smokes. The only issues i have had with any of them is the occassional batch with tight or loose draws. Otherwise, its all cosmetic.


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## RTChallenger13 (Jul 1, 2013)

do not buy Royal Nicaraguan Oscuros. Save yourself the money on a higher quality brand like backwoods or swisher sweets. Yes they are that bad. Tastes like burning cardboard, the ash burns orange (yes orange), and if you can keep it burning with any regularity prepare yourself for the mother of all ashes at a maximum 1" long before flaking off all over the place. The only saving grace to this cigar was that I bought a bundle at $20.


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## Sabre One (Jul 3, 2013)

RTChallenger13 said:


> do not buy Royal Nicaraguan Oscuros. Save yourself the money on a higher quality brand like backwoods or swisher sweets. Yes they are that bad. Tastes like burning cardboard, the ash burns orange (yes orange), and if you can keep it burning with any regularity prepare yourself for the mother of all ashes at a maximum 1" long before flaking off all over the place. The only saving grace to this cigar was that I bought a bundle at $20.


I don't think those are the same things as referenced by the original poster. The "Nicaraguan 90+ Rated Seconds" are made by Oliva, sold through Cigar International under that label, and seem to be exactly what hey claim...factory seconds from Oliva's brand lines. I smoke Oliva G's and O's from time to time, and the Petite Corona and Perfecto are spot on Oliva Special 'G' and Oliva 'O' Maduro. I have ordered and smoked several bundles now. I had one bundle of Perfectos that was rolled a little loose, and burned fast. That same batch also tended to peel around the head a little when cut with a guillotine cutter...just fine though with a punch. Some of the Petite Coronas are quite tight on the draw, but open as the burn gets around 1/4. The Robustos have been just perfect. I can't find their flaw at all. The current batch of Perfectos that I have right now are fantastic. I still can't believe they are a $2.20 smoke!!! I have some other smokes on order now, but in another week or so, I'll probably stock back up on all three.


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## RTChallenger13 (Jul 1, 2013)

no theyre not, but if you read his follow up posts on the first page he asked about them.


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## powerkor (Aug 9, 2013)

I'm pretty disappointed in my 90+ seconds robusto. The flavor doesn't really develop like other Oliva's I've had. Maybe I'm missing something. They are strong however, and some people like that. It did burn even and the draw was great. Too 1-noted for my taste. I couldn't finish it. I am new to really paying attention to what I am smoking but as for me, and my taste preferences, I won't be ordering these again.


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## Kasanova King (Jun 8, 2014)

I know this is an older thread, but just wanted to know if anyone else had any luck with these? 

I just got my order of Churchills today and decided to light one up right out of the pack....and wow....excellent smoke, all the way. From everything I've read online, these are most likely Oliva Series 'O's or series 'V's, depending on the size.


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## Myrddwn (Jun 16, 2013)

I had a bundle of robustos a couple months ago, and I really enjoyed them. My pallet is not yet refined enough to tell if they are Olivas or not, but I thought they were a damn nice smoke.


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## harned (Jun 11, 2013)

Does anyone smoke the same vitola on a reg basis? Just thinking that maybe they might switch it up depending on what they have stocked. Especially since there are several factories in Nic. Just a thought.


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## wulfmang (Sep 5, 2016)

Old thread, just wanted to add that I loved my 90+ Robustos, though they were a little dry and haven't really fully recovered even after 3 months. My Nicaraguan Sweet 2nds first order of churchills were a lot like the Flor De Oliva Gold and now my second order are toro's but seem more like Flor De Oliva.

My Gordo 2nds CT are def Nub CT...love their taste! i'm just silly for seconds. lol

Plasencia Overruns Toro...eh not too impressed, strong cedar notes without change. Would take New Cuba's instead. 

yeah i'm cheap.


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