# EdgeStar 28 condensation question



## G22inSC (Jun 4, 2010)

I can't seem to rid the unit of the condensation issue. I have a Johnson temp control that regulates the temp inside the unit around 68 degrees. I have a constant condensation problem. If I tape over the drain hole, I have a puddle of water on the bottom of the unit by the end of the day. If I leave the drain hole open, I have a small portion of water in the drain pan on the rear of the outside of the unit. What do you'll suggest? Should I cover the hole and find a solution for the water or leave open? Is anyone else having these issues? Thanks for any help.


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## bigslowrock (May 9, 2010)

what are you using for humidity control?


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## G22inSC (Jun 4, 2010)

65% RH beads. Just have a few; however, my order of one pound should arrive today and be in place in a few hours...I hope.


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## thegoldenmackid (Mar 16, 2010)

I'll post in my thread pictures later. I have the outside drain hooked up to plastic tubing and draining into a mason jar.

I still am dealing with condensation problems, but they are a lot better.


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## TonyBrooklyn (Jan 28, 2010)

G22inSC said:


> I can't seem to rid the unit of the condensation issue. I have a Johnson temp control that regulates the temp inside the unit around 68 degrees. I have a constant condensation problem. If I tape over the drain hole, I have a puddle of water on the bottom of the unit by the end of the day. If I leave the drain hole open, I have a small portion of water in the drain pan on the rear of the outside of the unit. What do you'll suggest? Should I cover the hole and find a solution for the water or leave open? Is anyone else having these issues? Thanks for any help.


First off you need to drop the temp to 65 degrees. 2nd plug the drain and have the condensation drip into the tray filled with beads. Kitty litter works just as well at least a couple pf pounds for a 28 bottle fridge. Third keep the unit close to full with boxes of cigars. It takes at least 3 days to a week to stabilize as well. My buddy runs this setup with no issues whats so ever. Good Luck:bump2:


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## G22inSC (Jun 4, 2010)

The beads are in. I have a full pound split in two different bags. One bag on the bottom shelf and one bag on the top shelf. I have boxes on each shelf with enough medium size tubes to have one in a box on each shelf. I will lower the temp to 65 tonight and re-plug the drain with electrical tape. I will have to come up with a solution to direct the condensation into a catch basin at the bottom of the inside of the fridge to catch the condensation. We'll see what happens. Any better ideas or advice?


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## thegoldenmackid (Mar 16, 2010)

After spending hours last weekend researching the Edgestar and condensation issues last week on all sorts of forums, here's what I got...

There are a bunch of solutions, each have pretty much had both successes and failures, so I'm treating this as a trial and error type of thing.

List of solutions
1. Do Nothing
2. Seal back drain, drain water to beads internally
3. Seal internal drain, leave tray alone
3. Seal internal drain, beads on back tray
4. Do nothing, drain water to beads internally
5. Mason jar back drain, seal front drain
6. Mason jar back drain, do nothing inside
7. Mason jar back drain, dump beads internally
8. Mason jar back drain, but punch holes in mason jar - meaning it's not sealed

Then we can go through whether tape, silicone or plugs are the best method.

I found the mason jar method on that other site... it's pretty simple.

Get 1/2 inch tubing (3/8 internal) run it to a mason jar, put a horse clamp slightly tight on the part of the back drain's knob. I decided to keep it sealed (added some electrical tape) so that I'd have a sealed environment. I could put beads in the bottom, which would likely remove the need to empty the jar. I originally left the front drain unsealed, and decided to plug it via electrical tape yesterday - we'll see how that goes.

My unit is running at 65 degrees (without Johnson controls, lucky me) with about 59 percent humidity with 2 3/4 lbs of beads that are getting white weekly. Hopefully I can fix this. Pictures are below. That water is five days worth of condensation without the front being plugged. I'll likely add a couple ounces of beads so I don't have to drain the water, but I want to stabilize first.

I personally like the jar method the best because it keeps everything sealed, which logically should be a good thing. I'm trying to avoid the internal drainage to beads method as I'm not sure how that would work with Chasidor drawers.

The one thing that I have learned is that there is not a singular answer to the problem and if something doesn't work, try something else. Just give it a couple days to see if it works.


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## thegoldenmackid (Mar 16, 2010)

For the record, a day in my humidity is worse and condensation is still occurring. Silica coming soon I'd imagine.


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## dyieldin (Sep 27, 2009)

Seems to me that if you have the condensation leaving the unit, it will drop the RH inside. In other words it is like it is not sealed. You may have it going to a sealed jar but it is still being removed from the unit. Seems you want to keep that in there and recycle it.

Another thought. the RH will be higher closer to the beads. It would seem if you have the beads farther from the internal fan/peltier then the less it would condense on the fins.

Again, maybe more airflow would help prevent the condensation as it would move pas the fins faster.

Just tossing some things out there as I keep seeing these threads with no concrete answers.


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## thegoldenmackid (Mar 16, 2010)

Thanks Dave for the help.

The condensation is inevitable, it's just a question of how you have it leave the unit. My problem is that my sealing methods on the inside aren't working. The outside is sealed and I'll likely throw some beads in there, but for the life of me I seem incapable of sealing the inside.

I tried placing beads on there, but it did little. I think getting some silicone sealant tomorrow and hope that works.

I do think that sealing the back drain is a key though, but that's just me.


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## gahdzila (Apr 29, 2010)

I'm following topics like this closely, as I'm thinking of going to a wine cooler sometime in the future. So I'm not speaking from experience, just tossing ideas out.

I think dyieldin is on the right track. Any condensation that is drained out of the unit is moisture that is sucked out of the air (and your beads) inside the unit. I don't know exactly how the drains on these units are set up, but from what I've read it seems like guys that drain the condensation to an internal pan full of beads are having the most success (basically, recycling the condensation back into humidity).

Good luck, and let us know what you decide to do and how it works out for you.


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## centralharbor (May 20, 2010)

I don't have a wine cooler, but maybe you should just figure out where the condensation is coming from. If you can isolate a central area where the condensation collects, maybe you can alleviate the problem at the source instead of dealing with the repercussions.

I'm not sure how you would isolate the problem, but if I had this problem, I'd probably leave it unmodified (as in take the jar and tube off and unplug all the drains) and let it run with as much beads as you'll need, and monitor with a hygrometer.  Then I'd leave it closed for a couple days and let a lot of condensation build on whatever it's coming from. After you find out where the condensation is coming from, I'm not sure what you could do, but maybe someone else might be able to suggest something? Fans blowing away from the condensation source to redistribute the humidity being collected?

I'm thinking that if there's condensation, that means something is cooler than the general air inside, which would collect condensation. If you can distribute the coolness of whatever is collecting condensation, you won't have a problem.

Again, I'm not speaking from experience, but maybe this is an option. Either way, I eventually wanted to get a wine cooler for myself, so I'm also interested in what happens.


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## thegoldenmackid (Mar 16, 2010)

I'm pretty sure I know where the condensation is coming from, it's just a problem of stopping it. The silicone should be tried in four hours. I'll see how that goes.


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## dubgeek (Jun 25, 2010)

I think I'll give the silicone a shot too. My beads are on the way and my cedar trays are being built. Does it need to be a certain type of silicone caulk?


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## thegoldenmackid (Mar 16, 2010)

Well, the sillicone caulk dstopped more water, but not all of it. The fan is clearly responsible for a bit.

A bit of science might help, but my 65 beads seem rather incapable of producing 65 RH at 61 degrees.... however, as soon as I open the wine cooler and the warmer air comes in, the RH on the hygrometer shoots up.

PhDs... any help?


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## dyieldin (Sep 27, 2009)

thegoldenmackid said:


> Well, the sillicone caulk dstopped more water, but not all of it. The fan is clearly responsible for a bit.
> 
> A bit of science might help, but my 65 beads seem rather incapable of producing 65 RH at 61 degrees.... however, as soon as I open the wine cooler and the warmer air comes in, the RH on the hygrometer shoots up.
> 
> PhDs... any help?


Put some beads in a bag with the hydro for a day and see what happens. I guess you could also just put a bowl of water in the humi for a day and see if there is any climb.


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## Herf N Turf (Dec 31, 2008)

thegoldenmackid said:


> Well, the sillicone caulk dstopped more water, but not all of it. The fan is clearly responsible for a bit.
> 
> A bit of science might help, but my 65 beads seem rather incapable of producing 65 RH at 61 degrees.... however, as soon as I open the wine cooler and the warmer air comes in, the RH on the hygrometer shoots up.
> 
> PhDs... any help?


First, it sounds to me as though neither you, nor the OP is using enough beads. You're both in hot, humid climates, so you might need to compensate with more beads in more areas.

Secondly, I'd recommend channeling the water into no less than two pounds of beads.

Third, consider installing more fans. More fans, therefore more air circulation will keep more moist air away from the peltier unit.

Finally, try not to open the cooler any more often than you absolutely have to. If available, put enough sticks in a small, traditional humidor, to last you for a week or two, at least during the hot summer months.

I'm betting that your rapid condensation and loss of rH are due to the rapid swing in temperature from opening the fridge. When warm outside air is rapidly introduced, water vapor is released from liquid and rH shoots up and is drawn directly to the peltier When the water is then removed, or channeled back into the beads, the beads are struggling to catch back up and can't. At least not quickly enough. Beads are great, but they are SLOW.

Dropping the internal temp, will likely just increase condensation.


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## johnmoss (Jun 18, 2010)

Herf N Turf said:


> First, it sounds to me as though neither you, nor the OP is using enough beads. You're both in hot, humid climates, so you might need to compensate with more beads in more areas.
> 
> Secondly, I'd recommend channeling the water into no less than two pounds of beads.
> 
> ...


So would it be better to have a couple of pounds of beads *and* some kind of active humidification or will that just compound the problem?


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## Herf N Turf (Dec 31, 2008)

Well, certainly the easiest route would be to just get an Accumonitor with remote fans. The other would be a couple of computer fans and beads, in which case it would also be "active".


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## e-man (Jan 5, 2009)

Any time the unit runs, it will pull humidity from the air. The fan isn't the culprit, but is right next to it. The cooling element causes the moisture in the air to condense, as it is colder than the air.

Stock the unit full, so it won't need to run as much to recover when the door gets opened. If you can't afford to stock it with cigars, then fill it with something inert, like cans of soda. Adding extra volume will displace the empty air. That means less cold air will escape when opened, and less warm air will enter. Less air means your humidifier won't need to work as hard to maintain the desired rH. The extra mass will help cool the remaining air faster so the unit won't need to run as much. The less the unit runs, the less moisture it will pull from the air. Your humidity will stabilize faster, and your condensation will be reduced. Be aware that the additional mass will cause the unit to run longer until it reaches temp.

You should re-direct the water back to the beads from which it came. Otherwise, you will be constantly charging your beads for no reason. Just make sure you didn't oversaturate your beads to begin with. You may want to split your drain hose to distribute the water more evenly among the beads.

Adding active humidification may help stabilize the rH while the unit is running, but it will compound the condensation problem. More moisture = more condensation. However, you could modify the cartridge to collect the condensation, as mentioned above

Give it a few days and it should stabilize.


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## dyieldin (Sep 27, 2009)

e-man said:


> Any time the unit runs, it will pull humidity from the air. The fan isn't the culprit, but is right next to it. The cooling element causes the moisture in the air to condense, as it is colder than the air.
> 
> Stock the unit full, so it won't need to run as much to recover when the door gets opened. If you can't afford to stock it with cigars, then fill it with something inert, like cans of soda. Adding extra volume will displace the empty air. That means less cold air will escape when opened, and less warm air will enter. Less air means your humidifier won't need to work as hard to maintain the desired rH. The extra mass will help cool the remaining air faster so the unit won't need to run as much. The less the unit runs, the less moisture it will pull from the air. Your humidity will stabilize faster, and your condensation will be reduced. Be aware that the additional mass will cause the unit to run longer until it reaches temp.
> 
> ...


Ya, what he said.


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## thegoldenmackid (Mar 16, 2010)

I have just under 3lbs of beads, which I have to assume is enough? If I need more I can move some things and get up to over 3. The condensation comes from the cooling unit, which is behind the fan and drips below. I'm thinking of adding some beads into the slot where the hole is for the drain and putting beads there. 

Getting some more fans is an option and there's little room in the unit. 

Don, the RH swings are definitely from the opening and the air exchange that occurs. 

Argh. If all else fails, this weekend I'll start running some wires in for the Avallo humidification device.


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## centralharbor (May 20, 2010)

Again, I'm not speaking from experience with a wine cooler, but logic tells me that the faster the cooler can make the temp more uniform, the less condensation you'll have. This would be achieved by putting more fans by the cooler. I'd assume it would also have a secondary effect of drying the cooler of condensation similar to if you put something wet in front (or behind) a fan versus putting that same wet object somewhere without airflow.


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## dyieldin (Sep 27, 2009)

I think you just need to make a loop. The water evaporates into the air and the air condenses on the peltier fins and drip back down to the catch basin(whatever you use) and into the beads and the process starts again.

Also sounds like you are just messing with it too much, you seem to be in it all the time, let it sit for a few days to stabilize. It's O.K. it will not go anywhere, it will be there when you get back.....LOL.


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## thegoldenmackid (Mar 16, 2010)

I've given every solution 48 hours at a minimum, I understand one day at 51 RH isn't going to kill things, but a couple of weeks will. I'll see how this solution survives. As Don as mentioned, my condensation problems are on the extreme, which is likely an explanation as to why some of the known solutions aren't working.


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## dyieldin (Sep 27, 2009)

thegoldenmackid said:


> I've given every solution 48 hours at a minimum, I understand one day at 51 RH isn't going to kill things, but a couple of weeks will. I'll see how this solution survives. As Don as mentioned, my condensation problems are on the extreme, which is likely an explanation as to why some of the known solutions aren't working.


Oh my misunderstanding. From all the post and stuff it sounded like you were losing patience and trying something new every day. Cool, see what this does.


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## thegoldenmackid (Mar 16, 2010)

dyieldin said:


> Oh my misunderstanding. From all the post and stuff it sounded like you were losing patience and trying something new every day. Cool, see what this does.


Losing patience? Yes. Rushing things? Trying not too.



Thanks for all the help.


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## e-man (Jan 5, 2009)

thegoldenmackid said:


> Well, the sillicone caulk dstopped more water, but not all of it. The fan is clearly responsible for a bit.
> 
> A bit of science might help, but my 65 beads seem rather incapable of producing 65 RH at 61 degrees.... however, as soon as I open the wine cooler and the warmer air comes in, the RH on the hygrometer shoots up.
> 
> PhDs... any help?


I just re-read the entire post.

If you have high rH in your house, then the rH will get even higher when it enters the unit. As soon as the warm humid air hits the cold environment, the rH shoots up, as cold air can't hold as much moisture as warm air. The higher the rH, the more condensation.

Raising your temp will cause less of an rH spike when opened, and will cause the unit to run less often. Running a higher temp will give your beads a chance to catch up, as moisture will evaporate faster from the beads, and the unit won't be removing it as often.

Where did you put the caulking?


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## TonyBrooklyn (Jan 28, 2010)

TonyBrooklyn said:


> First off you need to drop the temp to 65 degrees. 2nd plug the drain and have the condensation drip into the tray filled with beads. Kitty litter works just as well at least a couple pf pounds for a 28 bottle fridge. Third keep the unit close to full with boxes of cigars. It takes at least 3 days to a week to stabilize as well. My buddy runs this setup with no issues whats so ever. Good Luck:bump2:


Bump Bump Bump


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## thegoldenmackid (Mar 16, 2010)

Question for those recycling the condensation.... How do you prevent spread the water out throughout the beads so that you don't over water the ones on the top?

Tony, does the kitty litter run into the same problems with overwatering?


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## dyieldin (Sep 27, 2009)

thegoldenmackid said:


> Question for those recycling the condensation.... How do you prevent spread the water out throughout the beads so that you don't over water the ones on the top?
> 
> Tony, does the kitty litter run into the same problems with overwatering?


I would think that you need not be concerned about the salts washing off, you just want them to hold the water and release it into the air, the regular beads should absorb anything over to compensate and level it off.

Theories of course.....


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## e-man (Jan 5, 2009)

thegoldenmackid said:


> Question for those recycling the condensation.... How do you prevent spread the water out throughout the beads so that you don't over water the ones on the top?
> 
> Tony, does the kitty litter run into the same problems with overwatering?


You don't have to worry about the salt washing off in a closed system. It's OK if the water pools at the bottom of the beads. The beads will wick the salt water back up into the pile, so you still have the same amount of salt at work. Washing the salt off is more of a problem for people who dip their beads into a bowl of water, then pour the unused water down the drain, along with any dissolved salt. It won't matter if the salt gets washed off some of the top beads...I'll explain below.

Thanks to Tony's enthusiasm, I decided to try out kitty litter with great success. You have to understand that plain silica behaves just like your cigars. It equalizes rH with whatever environment it is in, so there is no "set" rH value. When water flows into the drip pan, the litter starts equalizing and releases a surge of moisture into the air. That really helps counter the big drop in rH that was caused by all that condensation in the first place. Also, since the OP is running HF beads elsewhere in the unit, they will absorb any extra moisture released by the litter until equilibrium is reached between them. That will charge the HF beads passively, while freeing up capacity in the litter to soak up more water again.

Kitty litter adds a LOT of additional moisture capacity for only $1-2 per pound, and can be bought locally for those who seek instant gratification. :biggrin:

Before, I used to recharge the half pound of beads in my 250 ct humidor every week or two. I added a small dish of lightly charged (approx 1/3 to 1/2 clear) kitty litter to the bottom of the humidor, and haven't had to charge the beads for 4 months, and counting. My humidor always runs at the exact rH that the beads are rated at, rather than the 1-5% drop it always experienced in cold/dry weather. When my rH finally does drop, a few good sprays to the litter and she'll be good for several more months again. The beads regulate the rH, while the litter stockpiles water. This combination takes even less work than HF beads alone, and only costs you a couple bucks to upgrade.


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## TonyBrooklyn (Jan 28, 2010)

e-man said:


> You don't have to worry about the salt washing off in a closed system. It's OK if the water pools at the bottom of the beads. The beads will wick the salt water back up into the pile, so you still have the same amount of salt at work. Washing the salt off is more of a problem for people who dip their beads into a bowl of water, then pour the unused water down the drain, along with any dissolved salt. It won't matter if the salt gets washed off some of the top beads...I'll explain below.
> 
> Thanks to Tony's enthusiasm, I decided to try out kitty litter with great success. You have to understand that plain silica behaves just like your cigars. It equalizes rH with whatever environment it is in, so there is no "set" rH value. When water flows into the drip pan, the litter starts equalizing and releases a surge of moisture into the air. That really helps counter the big drop in rH that was caused by all that condensation in the first place. Also, since the OP is running HF beads elsewhere in the unit, they will absorb any extra moisture released by the litter until equilibrium is reached between them. That will charge the HF beads passively, while freeing up capacity in the litter to soak up more water again.
> 
> ...


That's exactly how it works great explanation. You can use the litter in addition to beads. When you become familiar enough with your needs. And confident enough, you can use the litter as a stand alone product. I was a skeptic too at first but after seeing it with my own eyes. It works the tray at the bottom by the plugged drain catches the water and keeps the litter wet or charged as they say. A second dish either dry or slightly wet of cat litter placed on the top shelf and your done. Playing with the moisture of lack of it in the second tray takes time but it works and its cheap. :yawn:
:tape2:
:doh:


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## TonyBrooklyn (Jan 28, 2010)

thegoldenmackid said:


> Question for those recycling the condensation.... How do you prevent spread the water out throughout the beads so that you don't over water the ones on the top?
> 
> Tony, does the kitty litter run into the same problems with overwatering?


Not from what i have observed no i can't say it does. Look at my post under this one i explained how i have seen it done. Hope this helps.


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## thegoldenmackid (Mar 16, 2010)

Thanks Tony and Eric, I'm going to add a couple of pounds of kitty litter. Would be nice of my Chasidor shelves get here, Cigar Box Tetris is getting harder and harder.


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## Seasick Sailor (Jan 3, 2011)

thegoldenmackid said:


> After spending hours last weekend researching the Edgestar and condensation issues last week on all sorts of forums, here's what I got...
> 
> There are a bunch of solutions, each have pretty much had both successes and failures, so I'm treating this as a trial and error type of thing.
> 
> ...


I am thinking of using the tubing like you did above, but instead of having it run into a mason jar on the outside of the unit, I will drill another hole for the tubing to enter the cooler and drain into a cigar box full of beads.

I'll use silicon or hot-glue to create a seal around the tubing and use electrical tape and a cut up plastic bag to create a cover over the exposed area of the drain inside. This should recycle the moisture that collects in the drain and protect the inside from the dripping condensation as it makes its way down the drain.

Does anyone see a flaw in my thinking here?


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## G22inSC (Jun 4, 2010)

I didn't realize my thread had been brought back to life. 

I currently have a home made "slide" funneling condensation into a trough filled with beads on the bottom of the unit. I have read where one line of thought is that this is bad as it could lead to mold. I then thought that maybe I would be better off moving the computer fan to the base of the unit blowing toward the rear (essentially blowing air over the beads in an attempt to dry them more quickly). Then I thought some more and wandered if you would be better off with a computer fan nearly in-line with the Peltier unit that could blow air from the front to the rear onto the Peltier unit to attempt to keep the condensation from forming in the first place.

What do you'll think? Where would the optimal fan placement be?


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## Seasick Sailor (Jan 3, 2011)

I'm planning on having a fan mounted with spacers on 2 inch bolts that actually stands in the bead container pointing up. My thinking is that this will help draw air through the condensation charged beads and hopefully keep them from getting too wet.


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## 96p993 (Dec 30, 2010)

Im in the process of deciding on the condensation from my edgestar, wondering if anyone has had a problem with mold from the condensation. There are some great ideas in here but needless to say mold in my beads isnt acceptable.


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## Seasick Sailor (Jan 3, 2011)

96p993 said:


> Im in the process of deciding on the condensation from my edgestar, wondering if anyone has had a problem with mold from the condensation. There are some great ideas in here but needless to say mold in my beads isnt acceptable.


I have not experienced any issues with mold on my KL.

I am not sure if the silica has natural mold inhibiting properties, but it has not been an issue for me. I simply remove the tray of KL that the condensation runs into each week and stir the it to keep any of it from becoming over-saturated.

My guess is that if you're temperature is in the proper range, mold shouldn't be much of an issue, but that is a guess. I would highly recommend confirming that before placing too much faith in it.

Let me know if you have any questions with your build. I'm happy to help in any way I can.


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