# A Few Humidor Questions



## kwiebe (Sep 10, 2010)

I'm a noob setting up a small desktop humidor. I seasoned it, seems to be doing OK. I am using one of those little gel jars. One thing I did (wrong I think), is I put DW in the jar right away, then I read later that you only need to do that when the crystals shrink. Did I mess up? The DW is all gone now, not visible in the jar.

Next question(s):

Some places I read say to use PG, generally, for humidification, and other places say DW. Are they interchangeable/why would I want to use PG?

What does "RO" stand for?

Also, I'm a little confused about the terms "crystals" "gel" "beads" etc. (maybe others, you tell me). Even on the little jar I've got, it calls the contents both gel and crystals. Are they one and the same?

Thanks for helping a newbie out.


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## Herf N Turf (Dec 31, 2008)

kwiebe said:


> I'm a noob setting up a small desktop humidor. I seasoned it, seems to be doing OK. I am using one of those little gel jars. One thing I did (wrong I think), is I put DW in the jar right away, then I read later that you only need to do that when the crystals shrink. Did I mess up? The DW is all gone now, not visible in the jar.
> 
> No. You didn't screw up. Just don't over saturate them anymore. Be sure you're getting an accurate hygrometer reading and that the hygrometer is calibrated.
> 
> ...


Good luck!


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## cubanrob19 (Jun 15, 2010)

for one ... use this thread to season your humidor correctly:
http://www.cigarforums.net/forums/v...96-how-herf-n-turf-seasons-new-humidor-6.html

second ... Gel & Beads are different ... Crystal Gel is what you have in the jar, when you pour the DW in there, it absorbs like 400 times its weight in water, and it disperses the humidity out and shrinks in the process and then you pour more DW in it. Beads both absorb and disperse humidity ... which is why theyre generally a better alternative to the Gel. If the humidity gets too high it will absorb some and if it gets too low it will disperse some.

Im not an expert, but I hope this info helps!


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## kwiebe (Sep 10, 2010)

Wow, thanks for the great replies. I'm learning!


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## Humidor Minister (Oct 5, 2007)

I would just stick with DW. I've had RO turn my humidifier brown. Cheap and easy.


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## Herf N Turf (Dec 31, 2008)

Humidor Minister said:


> I would just stick with DW. I've had RO turn my humidifier brown. Cheap and easy.


I'd be for checkin' the filters and membrane of that RO system. Either way, don't tell the walk-in humidor crowd this. There's no way you could run a large system on DW.


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## johnmoss (Jun 18, 2010)

Herf N Turf said:


> I'd be for checkin' the filters and membrane of that RO system. Either way, don't tell the walk-in humidor crowd this. There's no way you could run a large system on DW.


I agree..RO systems produce water this is as pure as possible, as long as the filters and RO membrane are not worn. I even use it in my CPAP and that things uses a 8oz of water a night. Not a single spot ends up on the water container.


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## Trip59 (Aug 9, 2010)

Herf N Turf said:


> I'd be for checkin' the filters and membrane of that RO system. Either way, don't tell the walk-in humidor crowd this. There's no way you could run a large system on DW.


Maybe a silly question, but why, and does that mean we should be using RO?

Trip


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## jspilon (Aug 25, 2009)

When I started last year, I was using a Gel based humidifier with 50/50 solution, a few refills and it didn't seem to last long although it looked 3/4 full every time my RH was going down. Refill with DW only, otherwise it will end up plugged with PG like the one I had. I use beads now, and I am very happy with the results, especially that all I have to care about is sprinkle them with DW once in a while.


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## thegoldenmackid (Mar 16, 2010)

Trip59 said:


> Maybe a silly question, but why, and does that mean we should be using RO?
> 
> Trip


Sit at a B&M with a walk-in, watch how many times a day they have to refill the humidifiers. Gallons of water a day is a hassle and oddly the cheap distilled water adds up over time, where as reverse osmosis systems can do most of what distilled can for a hell of a lot cheaper and more convenience.

It's just a matter of what's the right solution. Like Don said, RO water can be used in humidors, but for most of us with desktops, buying a couple gallons of distilled water at the grocery store every year is a lot cheaper than an RO system. Similar logic can be used in a lot of places, but you wouldn't use beads for a walk-in's sole/primary humidity element either. Consumer vs. pro stuff, if that helps.


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## Herf N Turf (Dec 31, 2008)

The average American tap renders 350 parts per million (ppm). A Reverse Osmosis system reduces this to 10ppm. 

Distilled water (depending on the source) can range from .0005-10ppm, making it either vastly, or moderately better than RO water for cigar humidification. 

RO makes far better coffee than distilled since, because it is evaporated, DW has a ph of around 7; very acidic and not good for consumption.

The best beer on earth is made with water that runs right about 410ppm.

A LOT depends on what those ppm are made up of, however


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## Trip59 (Aug 9, 2010)

Cool, for the investment, and my enjoyment later, I wanted to make sure I was using the best I could. Now it makes sense that it's ok and works better for them, but DW is better on the small scale. Thanks!!

Trip


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## Halen (Sep 4, 2010)

Herf N Turf said:


> The average American tap renders 350 parts per million (ppm). A Reverse Osmosis system reduces this to 10ppm.
> 
> Distilled water (depending on the source) can range from .0005-10ppm, making it either vastly, or moderately better than RO water for cigar humidification.
> 
> ...


This system won't let me bump your reputation, since I've already done it once before.

This is awesome information! Thanks for posting it. I've always wondered about distilled versus RO water.


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## Athion (Jul 17, 2010)

the water that comes out of an RO system depends on the water that goes INTO an RO system (just like any filtered setup  ). Standard tap water will come out around 3-5ppm, depending on what you started with. RO does not remove certain things, one of the most common things in water that it wont remove, is chlorine (in fact chlorine will destroy the membrane). For this you need a charcoal filter on the system. Also, some water companies add minerals AFTER the filtering process for "flavor", just something to look out for. 

For a modest investment (around $150-200) you can have an undersink RO system put in that will provide about 10gallons a day (mostly for drinking  ). That way you know whats in it, and whats going to come out.

As an aside, RO is great for cleaning out coffee pots and things that may have been built up some mineral deposits inside. It also makes ice cubes that are almost completly clear (no little air bubbles).


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## gahdzila (Apr 29, 2010)

Herf N Turf said:


> The average American tap renders 350 parts per million (ppm). A Reverse Osmosis system reduces this to 10ppm.
> 
> Distilled water (depending on the source) can range from .0005-10ppm, making it either vastly, or moderately better than RO water for cigar humidification.
> 
> ...


*raises hand from the back of the class*

I'm no chemist, but I do know a pH of 7 is neutral, as in neither acidic or alkaline.

I actually dont know for a fact, but have no reason to doubt your statement that DW has a pH of 7 (it makes sense to me that it would be very close to 7)...is tap water more alkaline than that? In which case you would have meant *relatively* acidic, which would have made sense.

Sorry if that came across sounding snobby, I didn't mean it that way. I'm genuinely curious about this topic.

I work at a hospital, and have access to "Sterile Water for Irrigation," which I presume is distilled before being sterilized. It has a pH of 5.5, and I can attest to the fact that it tastes like absolute crap. Maybe because of the acidity? I dunno. I do agree that DW doesnt taste very good, and sterile water tastes even worse to me.


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## Soft Top (Jul 29, 2010)

Athion said:


> the water that comes out of an RO system depends on the water that goes INTO an RO system (just like any filtered setup  ). Standard tap water will come out around 3-5ppm, depending on what you started with. RO does not remove certain things, one of the most common things in water that it wont remove, is chlorine (in fact chlorine will destroy the membrane). For this you need a charcoal filter on the system. Also, some water companies add minerals AFTER the filtering process for "flavor", just something to look out for.
> 
> For a modest investment (around $150-200) you can have an undersink RO system put in that will provide about 10gallons a day (mostly for drinking  ). That way you know whats in it, and whats going to come out.
> 
> As an aside, RO is great for cleaning out coffee pots and things that may have been built up some mineral deposits inside. It also makes ice cubes that are almost completly clear (no little air bubbles).


I don't know the exact details on RO but I use it for my fish and if it didn't remove chlorine the they would be dead by now so the RO water that my fish guys produce must remove the chlorine.

As such maybe the best option is to go to a fish shop. I buy my RO at £3.00 for 25 litres which is about 10 times cheaper than DW. I guess thus is a about $4.50 for almost 6 US Galons. That's cheaper than gas!


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