# Sealed Boxes



## rtrimbath (Sep 22, 2013)

I have found that certain vendors claim to open boxes before shipping to check for quality assurance. They offer to send the boxes sealed if specified. What should you do in this scenario? Have the boxes arrive unsealed, or should you ask for them to arrive with the seal intact? Does it matter?


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## knilas (Sep 15, 2013)

Not sure if it's right or wrong, but I prefer my boxes to be sealed and undisturbed when they arrive at my door. Guess I don't like the idea of someone else breaking the seal before I do. (blame my cynical side) I can understand there are instances where this may be useful, especially with well aged or vintage sticks, but most vendors provide guarantees and stand behind their product... and that's good enough for me if there are any issues. 

I'm interested to hear what some of the fellas have to say about this. IE: Tony


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## Perfecto Dave (Nov 24, 2009)

I prefer not to receive any mold or split wrappers. If they'll open them and have a look before they ship I'm fine with it.


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## smoking ash (Aug 22, 2010)

I'm cool with inspection.


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## Tobias Lutz (Feb 18, 2013)

I'm pretty indifferent to whether they are sealed or not. I'm much more interested in checking the serial number.


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## TonyBrooklyn (Jan 28, 2010)

rtrimbath said:


> I have found that certain vendors claim to open boxes before shipping to check for quality assurance. They offer to send the boxes sealed if specified. What should you do in this scenario? Have the boxes arrive unsealed, or should you ask for them to arrive with the seal intact? Does it matter?


I always ask that they be opened and inspected.


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## protekk (Oct 18, 2010)

TonyBrooklyn said:


> I always ask that they be opened and inspected.


same here


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## Hubby (May 28, 2013)

Open and inspected for me also.. Saves the hassle of getting "bad" cigars and having to contact the vendor for shipping and a reshipment etc... I also agree with @Tobiaslutz, I wanna check the serial number!


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## stonecutter2 (Jul 12, 2012)

Opened and inspected for me. Although even with that, I had some PSD4's show up a little moldy on the bottom layer, so it doesn't necessarily always prevent issues. The mold wasn't an issue, just wiped 'em off and fired 'em up 

Hey regarding serial number, my boxes have always arrived with the location of the serial number looking like it was rubbed off or something. Is that totally unusual? I have never had concerns regarding authenticity and figured it was to protect the vendor or something.


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## tnlawyer (Jul 17, 2013)

I like mine opened and inspected as well. Never had an issue with serial numbers being messed up. I've always been able to clearly read mine and they always check out on the Habanos site.


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## Hubby (May 28, 2013)

Some vendors leave them on(mine does) and others do mark em off to protect themselves I guess... I dont think it really matters as long as you trust your vendor.. Since mine are on there I check em just to check em.. I trust my vendor completely...


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## knilas (Sep 15, 2013)

Hubby said:


> Some vendors leave them on(mine does) and others do mark em off to protect themselves I guess... I dont think it really matters as long as you trust your vendor.. Since mine are on there I check em just to check em.. I trust my vendor completely...


I too have never had an issue with damaged sticks..mold..serial numbers, etc. Until I do..I'm gonna leave em sealed and secure. Although I certainly see the validity to having them checked before shipping.


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## asmartbull (Aug 16, 2009)

OPEN and inspect if they will do so....ALWAYS..
If you don't trust your vendor to do so, get another vendor


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## madmarvcr (Jun 1, 2013)

All my NC boxes come sealed, so do all my CC boxes. Never had issues with cracked wrappers or mold. I will keep ordering sealed boxes and serial numbers in place.


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## Lrbergin (Jun 14, 2012)

I'll take open and inspected any day of the week.


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## TonyBrooklyn (Jan 28, 2010)

asmartbull said:


> OPEN and inspect if they will do so....ALWAYS..
> If you don't trust your vendor to do so, get another vendor


THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Trust your vendor or get another!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I never understood all that other stuff!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If you think intact boxes are legit ones.
I got a friend that got stuck with 5,000 dollars worth of bogus stock.
All his serial numbers checked out!!!!!!!!!!!!
My boxes are grey market and hardly ever come with serial numbers.
As soon as i open em up smell em touch em smoke one i know they are good to go.
Why would anyone purchase from a vendor that they don't trust is beyond me.
Enjoy the hobby my friends its like a women.
If you don't trust her your just wasting your time!


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## knilas (Sep 15, 2013)

I'm so confused right now. Ive never had an issue with my vendor, therefore I don't request them to open my boxes, which to me is displaying trust. I totally see the other side of it tho too. 
I had a buddy who lost a lot of cash because his vendor opened his boxes and replaced the good w/ bogus...even transferred legit bands and everything. So...like I said, I'm confused and don't really know what to do. There is so much misinformation out there in cyberland... It would be nice if we were allowed to bounce specifics off of some of the vets, even in pm, but unfortunately that is against the rules. With good reason. What to do..what to do....???


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## Jordan23 (May 25, 2012)

asmartbull said:


> OPEN and inspect if they will do so....ALWAYS..
> If you don't trust your vendor to do so, get another vendor


I'm in this camp solidly. I haaaaaate returning anything..including cigars. So if I can prevent that I'm all for it.

My take is simple. Do you trust them? Yes or no? If yes, please open and save me a potentially headache. I trust you, so I trust you wont screw me. If the answer is no, I dont order from them.


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## madmarvcr (Jun 1, 2013)

I trust my vendor 100% or I would not be using him. not sure how we got on to the trust your vendor tangent. I am glad he gives the option to ship sealed boxes with barcodes in place. The first thing I do when I get a new box is to open it, smell it, touch it to make sure they are authentic. I see this topic more as one's personal preference and no right answer.


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## jp1979 (Sep 12, 2013)

How about this one? I had a box show up with the "Habanos SA" seal broken and the "Warranty Seal" intact. My only guess is that they broke the right corner seal and pried the hinges on the back to inspect in order to leave the warranty seal intact. Anyone seen this before?


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## Perfecto Dave (Nov 24, 2009)

Never seen that one. But then I haven't done/been around long enough to see half of it yet. The vendors I use are very surgical at what they do with the seals. Nice clean razor cuts. A few times the cut was so clean I had to take a second look to make sure they had opened them.
If a vendor tried a switch a roo I just can't believe it wouldn't stick out like a body cast. First dead give away would probably be the aroma....unless of course they used that new cuban tobacco leaf perfume spray to enhance the suspected honduran leaf cigars. Also my disclaimer is as a rule of thumb I'm not spending much more on the high end than 6-8 bucks a stick for the leaf I'm burning up. I'm a cheap bastard and generally like to keep it under the 5-6 range for the most part. I'm not rich dontcha know!
I'm not deep enough into it to trust any vendors that claim they won't ship boxes and bands intact because of some law or something they claim is holding them back when there are enough good vendors that know how too and will get the job done.
I guess the open or not open deal is like the cello on, cello off debate. You really have to do what you are comfortable with. If you haven't established a total 100% trusting relationship yet, ask them to keep the razor in their pocket. But don't email them 2 weeks later crying about the box they sent you is full of mold cause it may hinder your path to a better future relationship! Don't think they won't remember who you are.


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## jp1979 (Sep 12, 2013)

I'm not doubting my vendor, I had never seen it before.


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## Breezy818 (Oct 1, 2012)

I'll take it's step further. Not only do I prefer them to open and inspect, if available I want my vendor to hand select particularly good smelling and looking sticks. That service generally comes with a premium, but well worth it IMO.


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## mata777 (Jul 11, 2011)

This my opinion and only that. I have tried the opened and inspected deal and a few years ago went to mostly all sealed boxes from all my vendors. Its my personal theory that open and inspect allows some vendors to keep the nicer boxes with A+ wrappers for themselves or clients who order quite a bit of boxes on a monthly basis. I order less than many smokers (only a few a year) and doubt I'm on their preferred client list.

The quality of wrappers on sticks that I get has gone up some for me ever since I started getting sealed boxes (I'm a sucker for dark chocolate wrappers on montes and bolivars but rarely got those when inspected). I only have one vendor that takes my requests for dark wrappers, factory codes, ect and is the only one I will let inspect my boxes because I know I'll get what I want, but his prices are higher than most and can't afford to get every single box from him.


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## bresdogsr (Jan 27, 2005)

I prefer open and inspected. I trust my vendor(s). Hate returns and mold.


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## smknjoecool (Oct 11, 2013)

I'm still skeptical about seals being broken. The vendor I currently use has been nothing but helpful and responsive so far. My second order from him is on the way and I am considering a third. When I emailed him and asked if they shipped with the seals intact he responded with the usual "we want to make sure they meet our high standards and it's for your protection" blah, blah, blah, and he completely avoided giving me an absolute yes or no answer. On top of that their prices are 20%+ higher than every other site I've looked at. If I insist that the boxes come sealed and they refuse should that be a red flag? My gut tells me yes. It's not like "local" vendors ship opened boxes. Why would it make sense for "remote" vendors to do so?


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## sligub (Apr 6, 2011)

smknjoecool said:


> I'm still skeptical about seals being broken. The vendor I currently use has been nothing but helpful and responsive so far. My second order from him is on the way and I am considering a third. When I emailed him and asked if they shipped with the seals intact he responded with the usual "we want to make sure they meet our high standards and it's for your protection" blah, blah, blah, and he completely avoided giving me an absolute yes or no answer. On top of that their prices are 20%+ higher than every other site I've looked at. If I insist that the boxes come sealed and they refuse should that be a red flag? My gut tells me yes. It's not like "local" vendors ship opened boxes. Why would it make sense for "remote" vendors to do so?


I don't think you will have a problem with asking for sealed boxes(apart from EMS merchants)

I think what guys are getting at here is that If you think that your merchant might switch in fakes what's to stop him sending you a sealed box of fakes, inspected reduces the chance of a problem and wont increase the risk of fake if using a legit vendor


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## protekk (Oct 18, 2010)

smknjoecool said:


> I'm still skeptical about seals being broken. If I insist that the boxes come sealed and they refuse should that be a red flag? My gut tells me yes. It's not like "local" vendors ship opened boxes. Why would it make sense for "remote" vendors to do so?


I personally wouldn't be suspect especially if it is a trusted vendor. I think "remote" vendors do this for varied reasons one being the shipping risk they take. For example if If they have to reship and the reship gets confiscated they lose money. They take a risk with the original shipment and the reship. I also agree with what Ross says above. Sealed boxes will not reduce the risk of fakes.


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## US2China (Sep 18, 2012)

TonyBrooklyn said:


> I always ask that they be opened and inspected.


+1, I trust the vender and I don't want to get a box full of mold or damaged sticks.


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## TheGipper (Jun 13, 2004)

jp1979 said:


> How about this one? I had a box show up with the "Habanos SA" seal broken and the "Warranty Seal" intact. My only guess is that they broke the right corner seal and pried the hinges on the back to inspect in order to leave the warranty seal intact. Anyone seen this before?


I have seen this a lot more recently. Habanos has changed something with their inspection process so that you get this on legit boxes sometimes.

Run your finger along the warranty seal and you'll probably feel a smaller seal underneath. That is the transit seal. (See Trevor's site for a picture of it, in the section "Warranty Seal - 2009 to circa late-2010": http://www.cubancigarwebsite.com/info-packaging.aspx)

I think that the DOP chevron is being applied at the same time the transit seal is applied. Then some of the boxes are opened for inspection before the warranty seal is applied. Which would explain the broken DOP seal but an intact warranty seal.

This is speculation on my part, but I've had this with many legitimate boxes recently so I don't think it's anything to be concerned about.


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## Ethernomad (Aug 23, 2013)

Thread resurrection....

Someone explain this for me. Up to now, I have not done many box purchases. The boxes I have bought so far have been NC. And they've all been sealed. And I've never heard of a NC vendor offering an "inspection" service. I don't really worry about mold or damage when ordering NC boxes. Is there something intrinsicly different between CC and NC in regards to mold and damage susceptibility? It just seems like a strange concept to me.

A few people previously voiced their concerns that opening and inspecting boxes introduces the opportunity for the vendor to categorize the quality of an intended commodity product. In other words, by inspecting each box the vendor has the chance to separate the good from the bad, but also separate the good from the better; and charge accordingly. As others have stated, they like this service and are willing to pay extra for better quality commodity items. Now I'm still stuck in a NC mind set. To me, this would be like Tampa Sweathearts getting in a large shipment of Opus X Angel's Shares, opening all the boxes up to see which ones were the best, and then charging extra for those.

Others in this thread and elsewhere admitted they felt uncomfortable with a vendor fondling the individual sticks in a box purchase because it would be easy to swap in some fakes. I think the "trust your vendor" response was the unanimous defense against this argument. However, if all you "trust your vendor" folks genuinely trusted your source completely, wouldn't you also trust them to only buy from trusted sources? This brings us back around to my original question. Why is mold and damage such a problem with Cubans that many feel it necessary to inspect the cigars before buying?


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## cakeanddottle (Mar 14, 2011)

Opened and inspected for me.


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## cakeanddottle (Mar 14, 2011)

Ethernomad said:


> Thread resurrection....
> 
> Someone explain this for me. Up to now, I have not done many box purchases. The boxes I have bought so far have been NC. And they've all been sealed. And I've never heard of a NC vendor offering an "inspection" service. I don't really worry about mold or damage when ordering NC boxes. Is there something intrinsicly different between CC and NC in regards to mold and damage susceptibility? It just seems like a strange concept to me.
> 
> ...


I think the issue is more that international shipping is effing expensive and more passes through customs equals more chance of trouble. This isn't like ordering Tats from the next state over.


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## protekk (Oct 18, 2010)

I ask certain vendors to check for mold only if they have had mold issues in the past (certain vendors have). I ask others for a specific wrapper if they provide the service. I also agree with Mike that when there is a problem with mold or cracked wrappers it is more difficult to navigate a reship and having to deal with customs and such. I prefer boxes open and checked by my vendors for quality control as well as wrapper quality


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## Ethernomad (Aug 23, 2013)

cakeanddottle said:


> I think the issue is more that international shipping is effing expensive and more passes through customs equals more chance of trouble. This isn't like ordering Tats from the next state over.


Tats come from Esteli, I think. And they have to make the journey from Nicaragua to the next state over. Sure I can return them easily if something is wrong. But I trust my Tat source to not have moldy banged up inventory to begin with, which they seem to be able to do without opening each box and inspecting. I would also feel a little taken if my Tat source offered to sell me higher quality Blacks at a premium price.
@protekk, for those of your vendors that offer wrapper quality check/choice, do you pay extra for the service?

I'm new to this and am just trying to understand the norms and nuances of dealing with CC sources. It seems like the transaction ceremony is very different than when purchasing NCs. What I'm gathering is that there are still a lot a quality control issues in Cuba. A good vendor is one who can be trusted to sift through the shit and only offer for sale the ones that are decent. I also gather that some vendors sell the shit anyways. And sometimes people confuse the authentic shit for quality fakes. And then there are actual fakes to watch out for too.

Am I right so far?


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## jp1979 (Sep 12, 2013)

Ethernomad said:


> Tats come from Esteli, I think. And they have to make the journey from Nicaragua to the next state over. Sure I can return them easily if something is wrong. But I trust my Tat source to not have moldy banged up inventory to begin with, which they seem to be able to do without opening each box and inspecting. I would also feel a little taken if my Tat source offered to sell me higher quality Blacks at a premium price.
> 
> @protekk, for those of your vendors that offer wrapper quality check/choice, do you pay extra for the service?
> 
> ...


the big difference is that if you buy a box of tats or padron or opus from lets say.... Famous. you get a damaged stick you return it to PA. you buy a box of CC from lets say a vendor in South Africa, you get that box, its damaged, moldy, whatever.. it will cost you 45 bucks to ship it back, customs forms to fill out, etc.. just a pain in the ass if it could have been avoided from having them check the box before they shipped it.

As far as a "good vendor" being one that will sift through the shit and only sell the good stuff, I would call that a premium vendor, and yes they charge more than others. a good vendor is one that if you have a gripe or an issue they handle it well. any vendor can get a shitty box, remember cigars are man made, and no one is perfect. there are also vendors that are priced cheaper, but you will not get hand picked boxes or any other requests. the sticks will be 100 percent legit, but may have rough feet or whatever, and that is not even always the case.

and yes, there are vendors who sell fakes


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## cakeanddottle (Mar 14, 2011)

Ethernomad said:


> Tats come from Esteli, I think. And they have to make the journey from Nicaragua to the next state over. Sure I can return them easily if something is wrong. But I trust my Tat source to not have moldy banged up inventory to begin with, which they seem to be able to do without opening each box and inspecting. I would also feel a little taken if my Tat source offered to sell me higher quality Blacks at a premium price.
> Am I right so far?


No. wtf is this response? You got an answer, pay attention.


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## protekk (Oct 18, 2010)

There are vendors that charge extra for the sticks they have deemed quality after sifting through boxes from a mastercase and there are vendors who you can ask to send a darker oilier wrapper and they will do it for free. Many/all of these vendors I trust to send quality sticks. The quality from Cuba can and does vary so why not have a fellow havanaphile pick a box that looks good and one that has sticks that are not underfilled etc? Admttidly it is a different ballllgame than purchasing NC's, and one you get used to after a while. However, even if an NC vendor offered to sift through a mastercase of Opus to pick boxes deemed high quality I would pay the extra $10 or $20 for that box as well. As far as moldy sticks.....there may be a couple of reasons for them. Many Europeans tend to like "wet" cigars. I have witnessed this first hand as I spend my summers in Portugal and Spain although I don't have any idea why they store cigars at 70%+ they just do. Another reason is a distributor may, and this is just a guess, have a big enough warehouse that it needs to pump humidity out and the boxes close to the humidity source are getting more humidity than boxes that are farther away.


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## Ethernomad (Aug 23, 2013)

Thanks guys. This info is helpful for me.


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## OnePyroTec (Dec 11, 1997)

Perfecto Dave said:


> I prefer not to receive any mold or split wrappers. If they'll open them and have a look before they ship I'm fine with it.


+1 on this.

I'm way past the days of needing to have a box not opened from anyone else but me. I'd prefer to have no mold or visible beetles/beetle holes.


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## Merovius (Sep 11, 2013)

smknjoecool said:


> I'm still skeptical about seals being broken. The vendor I currently use has been nothing but helpful and responsive so far. My second order from him is on the way and I am considering a third. When I emailed him and asked if they shipped with the seals intact he responded with the usual "we want to make sure they meet our high standards and it's for your protection" blah, blah, blah, and he completely avoided giving me an absolute yes or no answer. On top of that their prices are 20%+ higher than every other site I've looked at. If I insist that the boxes come sealed and they refuse should that be a red flag? My gut tells me yes. It's not like "local" vendors ship opened boxes. Why would it make sense for "remote" vendors to do so?


So your vendor has been nothing but helpful, responsive and you have been happy with your first two orders but youre annoyed with him....Regarding inspection I dont follow your notion about "local vendors"; have you ever been to a LCDH? The tobacconist will often assist in choosing your cigars with you, giving them a solid once over and gentle squeeze up and down to avoid "knots" and plugs. When you order several boxes online I dont think its fair to expect your vendor to check each stick but a quick scan for mold, beetles, busted wrappers is easy and helpful.

I often request dark & oily, so *always inspected* for me. I do this with 5 different vendors and Ive never had an issue.

I used to get all upset if my box didnt have the serial, now I dont really care too much. 
@rtrimbath pm sent


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## smknjoecool (Oct 11, 2013)

Merovius said:


> So your vendor has been nothing but helpful, responsive and you have been happy with your first two orders but youre annoyed with him....Regarding inspection I dont follow your notion about "local vendors"; have you ever been to a LCDH? The tobacconist will often assist in choosing your cigars with you, giving them a solid once over and gentle squeeze up and down to avoid "knots" and plugs. When you order several boxes online I dont think its fair to expect your vendor to check each stick but a quick scan for mold, beetles, busted wrappers is easy and helpful.
> 
> I often request dark & oily, so *always inspected* for me. I do this with 5 different vendors and Ive never had an issue.
> 
> ...


 I don't know if rtrimbath still needs help a year later. 

Having never ordered CCs before of course I was skeptical. And I wouldn't say I was happy really nor was I annoyed exactly. I was just skeptical since I didn't know what to compare them to other than non-cc's which aren't the same. No, I've never been to an LCDH. Touching unwrapped cigars is a no-no in most US cigar shops. So, apparently the whole CC purchasing process was quite foreign to me and it makes sense that I would, again, have a healthy dose of skepticism going into the process without anyone to verify my purchase for me.


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## NorCalJaybird (Sep 2, 2014)

I sent an email a few days ago to a well known dealer asking if they could open and inspect.This was the reply I got.

Good day,

Unfortunately we do not offer inspection services. Generally all goods are shipped in sealed boxes, however some may arrive inspected from our distributor. 

Regards,


Not really sure what to make of it. I guess this company doesn't offer a look see, make sure no mold kind of thing.. Honestly I am not to worried about it they come highly recommended. Now if I could just smoke that PD4s I have so I can even see if I like em'... Ahh who am I kidding? I know I will like em' Baahhhaaaaaa
Cheers
Jay


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