# Cohiba Siglo VI SLB differences...Fake?



## Tapewormboy (Apr 18, 2006)

I recently picked up 2 SLBs of Cohiba Siglo VIs from two different sources. 1 is very reputable, and the other I also believe to be a good source (just less popular so I hear about them less).

The box codes are POS ENE 06 and ROA JUL 06.

The problem is that the stamp/brand on top and sides do not exactly match each other (Cohiba head and text).

Below are the pictures.

LEFT: POS ENE 06
RIGHT: ROA JUL 06

Notice that the head and COHIBA is larger on the left. The boxes themselves are exactly the same size:









Spacing between Habana, Cuba and COHIBA are different:









Habanos stamps on the bottom differ (both are branded so that you can feel the indentations):









Cedar sheet shows the same brand that is on the exterior of the respective SLBs, with the size difference:









Sticks themselves look good (triple caps, bands look decent, etc). 









My question: Are either or both of these SLBs authentic? Are the differences in the stamps/brands not significant? Has anyone else ever seen these differences? Is this just another example of differences/inconsistencies from Cuban factories?

There was talk of revised SLBs for some of the Cohiba line, but I didn't think that the Siglo VI was one that was effected.

Would be nice to hear some input from people that have Siglo VI SLBs or experience with manufacturing differences.

Thanks!


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## Fredster (Jan 26, 2004)

I worry more about how the cigars look and smell. Can you post a close-up of them? If you shoot me a pm with the source name I'll let you know if I think they are a legit vendor or not. Strange on the box, but does not necessarily mean fake. Lots of wierd things happen with quality control in Cuba.


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## burninator (Jul 11, 2006)

Seems to me two different factories would make it possible to have some discrepencies in print.

What do I know, though? Will be interested in hearing from some experts.


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## LiteHedded (Apr 10, 2005)

if the cigars look/taste legit then I wouldn't worry.
two different factories may have slightly different brands IMO


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## moki (Jan 12, 2004)

um... those are not just slightly different. I find it pretty hard to believe that for the flagship Cuban brand, they'd be so sloppy about things like the iconic Cohiba profile. It's actually not even sloppiness, they'd need to have different brands that they used by mistake on the boxes.

Fredster is right, anything is possible, and these could be legit, but I'd definitely take a harder look.

While it is true that different factories make cigars, it is generally not the case that different factories make the boxes. I'd be suspicious of the box on the right, unless Cohiba has made changes to their packaging recently.


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## Blueface (May 28, 2005)

moki said:


> um... those are not just slightly different. I find it pretty hard to believe that for the flagship Cuban brand, they'd be so sloppy about things like the iconic Cohiba profile. It's actually not even sloppiness, they'd need to have different brands that they used by mistake on the boxes.
> 
> Fredster is right, anything is possible, and these could be legit, but I'd definitely take a harder look.
> 
> While it is true that different factories make cigars, it is generally not the case that different factories make the boxes. I'd be suspicious of the box on the right, unless Cohiba has made changes to their packaging recently.


Not only changes to the boxes but it appears also changes to the stamping at the bottom of the box.
Two different sizes/fonts.


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## Fredster (Jan 26, 2004)

moki said:


> um... those are not just slightly different. I find it pretty hard to believe that for the flagship Cuban brand, they'd be so sloppy about things like the iconic Cohiba profile. It's actually not even sloppiness, they'd need to have different brands that they used by mistake on the boxes.
> 
> Fredster is right, anything is possible, and these could be legit, but I'd definitely take a harder look.
> 
> While it is true that different factories make cigars, it is generally not the case that different factories make the boxes. I'd be suspicious of the box on the right, unless Cohiba has made changes to their packaging recently.


If it came from a vendor I've used for 10 years i don't care what the print looks like. They can and do change things with no notice all the time.

Other than a different fermentation process, Cohiba cigars and boxes are paid no special attention when it comes to quality control. They have the same issues every other brand does, "Flagship" brand or not.


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## LiteHedded (Apr 10, 2005)

Fredster said:


> If it came from a vendor I've used for 10 years i don't care what the print looks like. They can and do change things with no notice all the time.
> 
> Other than a different fermentation process, Cohiba cigars and boxes are paid no special attention when it comes to quality control. They have the same issues every other brand does, "Flagship" brand or not.


agreed
if you can't distinguish the sticks themselves from known real sticks by look or flavor I wouldn't worry.


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## CrazyFool (Oct 2, 2005)

Were either boxes opened and inspected prior to shipment? this would explain the box on the lefts sloppy bundle job. the box stamping dosnt worry much like how the cigars are bundeled.

i havnt seen box imbossing look defferent like in this case (but i also never really loked). The Habanos stamp on the bottom fluxuates IMHO, no worries there.

Also your factory codes are 100% legit


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## montecristo#2 (May 29, 2006)

burninator said:


> Seems to me two different factories would make it possible to have some discrepencies in print.
> 
> What do I know, though? Will be interested in hearing from some experts.


Can someone answer this question for me, I thought all Cohibas were rolled in the same factory (El Laguito), is this not true? Do other factories roll Cohibas as well?

Do they use multiple box codes for the same factory?


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## montecristo#2 (May 29, 2006)

Also, if you check out this list of box codes that have been reported, the POS ENE06 has been seen before. From the list ROA appears to be a real factory code that has made Cohibas.

I don't really know the source of this information or the accuracy, but at least it is something.

Was the POS ENE06 box from the very reputable source?

List has not been updated in a while:

http://www.cigarpass.com/cuban_box_codes.shtml


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## Tapewormboy (Apr 18, 2006)

Both boxes were shipped sealed. The bundling on the left is sloppy because there are 2 sticks missing. I smoked them. =) The right box is full and the ribbon and wheel are undisturbed.

The construction, smell, and "feel" of the sticks from both boxes seems correct. If it means anything, the aroma from both boxes is identical.



CrazyFool said:


> Were either boxes opened and inspected prior to shipment? this would explain the box on the lefts sloppy bundle job. the box stamping dosnt worry much like how the cigars are bundeled.
> 
> i havnt seen box imbossing look defferent like in this case (but i also never really loked). The Habanos stamp on the bottom fluxuates IMHO, no worries there.
> 
> Also your factory codes are 100% legit


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## moki (Jan 12, 2004)

Fredster said:


> If it came from a vendor I've used for 10 years i don't care what the print looks like. They can and do change things with no notice all the time.
> 
> Other than a different fermentation process, Cohiba cigars and boxes are paid no special attention when it comes to quality control. They have the same issues every other brand does, "Flagship" brand or not.


Sure, I agree with your points. However what it would take for this to happen would be for them to have a few different sized brands made, and use them arbitrarily on various boxes.

In order for the Cohiba profile to be of a different size as it is here, they'd have to have made a brand that's of a different size. Certainly possible, and I concur that the veracity of the vendor as well as the taste of the cigars is most important.

But this is up there with "Cohiba" bands that use the wrong font; that just isn't something that happens out of sloppiness. It could be a deliberate change in packaging, for sure, but as just a mistake, it seems unlikely.


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## LiteHedded (Apr 10, 2005)

any of you guys with multiple boxes of cubans in the humi (i'm looking at you klugsie)  see any difference in your sig boxes?


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## drdice (Sep 11, 2006)

montecristo#2 said:


> Can someone answer this question for me, I thought all Cohibas were rolled in the same factory (El Laguito), is this not true? Do other factories roll Cohibas as well?
> 
> Do they use multiple box codes for the same factory?


While visiting Cuba back in November we took a cigar tour of the La Corona factory in Habana. They were making a variety of different cigars there that day including Cohiba Robustos.


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## Fredster (Jan 26, 2004)

drdice said:


> While visiting Cuba back in November we took a cigar tour of the La Corona factory in Habana. They were making a variety of different cigars there that day including Cohiba Robustos.


Been a few years since they were only rolled at El Laguito. I think around 2003 they started to produce them at many other factories. Same deal with Trinidad.


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## montecristo#2 (May 29, 2006)

drdice said:


> While visiting Cuba back in November we took a cigar tour of the La Corona factory in Habana. They were making a variety of different cigars there that day including Cohiba Robustos.





Fredster said:


> Been a few years since they were only rolled at El Laguito. I think around 2003 they started to produce them at many other factories. Same deal with Trinidad.


Thanks for the info, I have been wondering about this for some time now.


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## Fredster (Jan 26, 2004)

montecristo#2 said:


> Thanks for the info, I have been wondering about this for some time now.


Actually it was before 2003. Come to think of it I have 97 Esplendidos and 97 CoRo's from JM and FR. Must have been around mid 90's they started producing elsewhere?


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## Tapewormboy (Apr 18, 2006)

There's actually an article in Cigar Aficionado from ~1994/1995 that talks about how the quality at the old Upmann and Partagas factories was better than at El Laguito for the lancero-sized sticks.

It makes mention that the thicker ring-guaged Cohiba sticks are "out-sourced" to other factories for production.

Almost, if not all, Lanceros and Esplendidos currently are rolled at El Laguito. The other sizes can, and are, made just about everywhere else. Mostly at Partagas and Upmann IME.



Fredster said:


> Actually it was before 2003. Come to think of it I have 97 Esplendidos and 97 CoRo's from JM and FR. Must have been around mid 90's they started producing elsewhere?


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## Tapewormboy (Apr 18, 2006)

I uploaded some more pictures to help determine if these are indeed the real deal. These are from the RIGHT BOX, which is the one I'm questioning. The Link below each picture is to a High Res version.

HI RES for previous pics:
http://xb4.xanga.com/b14d472444c35106499669/w75372100.jpg

http://x9d.xanga.com/b4ed212446633106499711/w75372128.jpg

http://x09.xanga.com/b19d415bc4135106499754/w75372158.jpg

http://xec.xanga.com/3c3d722648435106499794/w75372193.jpg

http://xe7.xanga.com/e17d575b36632106499833/w75372218.jpg

http://x60.xanga.com/6b2d462750735106499874/w75372252.jpg









http://xba.xanga.com/6c8d356418430106755305/w75567204.jpg









http://x38.xanga.com/b41d41fa55335106755369/w75567261.jpg









http://x9d.xanga.com/0afd5afa57332106755449/w75567321.jpg


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## Even Steven (Dec 15, 2006)

send one of each to Wilky Wong!


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## Fredster (Jan 26, 2004)

Tapewormboy said:


> There's actually an article in Cigar Aficionado from ~1994/1995 that talks about how the quality at the old Upmann and Partagas factories was better than at El Laguito for the lancero-sized sticks.
> 
> It makes mention that the thicker ring-guaged Cohiba sticks are "out-sourced" to other factories for production.
> 
> Almost, if not all, Lanceros and Esplendidos currently are rolled at El Laguito. The other sizes can, and are, made just about everywhere else. Mostly at Partagas and Upmann IME.


I don't know what percentage of Esplendidos and Lanceros are still made at the old El Laguito, but I have 97 Esplendidos and 2001 Lanceros both from Partagas (FR, and OSU)


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## fr3nchguy (Feb 4, 2007)

Post close ups of one stick from each box if you can.

4 pics should do 1 of caps, one of entire cigar, one of logos, and one of the ends... Oh and pics of the factory codes should help.


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## Fredster (Jan 26, 2004)

Tapewormboy said:


> I uploaded some more pictures to help determine if these are indeed the real deal. These are from the RIGHT BOX, which is the one I'm questioning. The Link below each picture is to a High Res version.
> 
> HI RES for previous pics:
> http://xb4.xanga.com/b14d472444c35106499669/w75372100.jpg
> ...


 No way those are fakes. Pretty wrappers, and perfect triple caps. Plus you said they smell identical to the other box. Usuall I can detect fakes just by smelling the cigars. Most fakes (not all) have Dominican tobacco. If they have Cuban filler it's short filler from scraps. You can ruin one of these disecting but I'm sure it's not short filler.

I don't have an explanation why the boxes look different, maybe the vendor can shed some light. He PM'd me the source on these guys and I've never heard of anyone getting fakes from this vendor. A letter from the govt maybe. I have seen stranger things from Cuba. Quality control is just crazy unpredictable. I don't have any 06 boxes to see if maybe this is the direction new boxes are going. Maybe others canchime in if they have seen this bigger font size box? BTW, I just pulled out a box of 2003 Siglo VI and they look like the larger print on the slide lid and the smaller print for the Habanos stamp. I'll try to put a picture up later.


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## dayplanner (Dec 11, 1997)

I've communicated with TWB and I don't think there is reason to suspect his sources. As strange as the Sig box looks, all the apparent visual clues look good. And as Fredster noted, the secret is in the smell. I'm not quite as ready, though, to attribute _every_ deviation to feckless quality control. Sometimes there _is_ an intention or a reason and it simply defies our logic in teasing this out based on prior history.

Wilkey


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## moki (Jan 12, 2004)

I agree, the cigars look good... how do they smell/taste?

Anyone recall the notices about Cohiba box packaging changes, and what they affected?


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## Blueface (May 28, 2005)

3x5card said:


> I've communicated with TWB and I don't think there is reason to suspect his sources. As strange as the Sig box looks, all the apparent visual clues look good. And as Fredster noted, the secret is in the smell.
> 
> Wilkey


To borrow a line from a favorite movie of mine:
F'ng A Cotton!

Those pups look great!


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## Tapewormboy (Apr 18, 2006)

_"and relief washes over me in an awesome wave"_

*Thanks for all the help guys. *

I'll smoke one of them this weekend and see if it matches up. The packaging seemed perfectly fine on their own; nothing indicated that they might be fakes until I had the boxes side by side.

I'll also contact the vendor and see if he knows anything about Cohiba box changes.

After I smoke one, I'll post again with the verdict.

It would be great to see some other pictures of Cohiba Siglo VI SLBs that are out there. Particularly ones from very recent production (July 2006 or fresher).


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## dyj48 (May 1, 2006)

You also might want to run a black light over the seals just to check the stamps as well. I agree that the taste test may be the ultimate test for these boxes. The cigars themselves both look good....


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## FraGil (Jan 25, 2007)

moki said:


> In order for the Cohiba profile to be of a different size as it is here, they'd have to have made a brand that's of a different size. Certainly possible.


Compare the brand on a siglo I SLB next to a siglo VI brand and you'll see for yourself how different the sizes can be.

It _could_ be that they picked up the wrong brand or they _could_ have decided to change the packaging. Either is plausible

Sorry I dont have a box post-July06 to upload, mine are all from 05 at the moment. For what its worth they look legit to me.


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## azherfer (Feb 13, 2006)

It is quite possible that the smaller headed lid is from a 10ct SLB and was either mistakenly put on the 25ct SLB, or they just ran out and substituted. Everything else looks completely legit.


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## FraGil (Jan 25, 2007)

azherfer said:


> It is quite possible that the smaller headed lid is from a 10ct SLB and was either mistakenly put on the 25ct SLB, or they just ran out and substituted. Everything else looks completely legit.


Sorry not at all possible.

If you unbundle the cigars in the 25 ct SLB you can fit 6 cigars in a row whereas the 10ct box has 2 rows of 5 cigars. Therefore the 10ct lid would be 1/6th too narrow for the 25ct box


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## carni (Jan 18, 2007)

Great discussion. If they smoke the same then your good. Also keep in mind that the boxes could have been made in different factories which could explain differences in heat stamps made in that factory.

You said cigars look/smell the same, labels same, just box difference. We see these differences in labels all the time. You may get a box with well inked and imprinted labels and another box with less detail. If it is a trusted vendor, and they have the same great performance, then Habanos changed something up.


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## Tapewormboy (Apr 18, 2006)

Thanks for your input. Do you have pictures of the lids of the 25 count and 10 count SLBs?

Are the brands different sizes between the 2 sizes?



FraGil said:


> Sorry not at all possible.
> 
> If you unbundle the cigars in the 25 ct SLB you can fit 6 cigars in a row whereas the 10ct box has 2 rows of 5 cigars. Therefore the 10ct lid would be 1/6th too narrow for the 25ct box


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## MoTheMan (May 24, 2003)

Gonna keep watching this post.

Am very curious 'bout the outcome.

I had a gut feeling suspicion of the box on the left at the very first picture.

. . . But then again, I've seen variation in the boxing of Cohibas, even from VERY reputable sources, and ALL the sticks have smoked fine.

Ultimately, having one in the hand will tell me more about the sticks than general comparisons. Hey TWB, if you can shoot me a PM with your sources I might have a better idea. Please LMK.


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## Ermo (Jun 3, 2006)

If you look at the proportions of the face and ponytail the one on the left is NOT just a bigger version of the one on the right. The one on the left has a ponytail that almost hangs down to the neckline, while the one on the right does not. I would question the box on the left since the logo does not look right. Of course it is Cuba so anything can happen.

Heres a link to the official site that has the logo: clicky


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## monetrey (Dec 5, 2006)

I have a question. On the warranty seals they have 2 letters with 6 numbers. When they first came out didn't they start out as AA 000000 then AA 000001 and so on..... now correct me if Im wrong but it doesnt look like the numbers match on these boxes??? IG 022590 and IR 111533? 


Just a question if im wrong my appologies.


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## daviddunn (Sep 26, 2006)

I'd say they're legit, judging from those last pictures you posted, of the sticks themselves, but feel free to send me one and I'll let you know for sure. ;-)


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## Tapewormboy (Apr 18, 2006)

The serial numbers are correct. More recent production will have larger numbers and/or subsequent letters.

January 2006= IG 022590 
July 2006= IR 111533

The dates and codes follow logically.



monetrey said:


> I have a question. On the warranty seals they have 2 letters with 6 numbers. When they first came out didn't they start out as AA 000000 then AA 000001 and so on..... now correct me if Im wrong but it doesnt look like the numbers match on these boxes??? IG 022590 and IR 111533?
> 
> Just a question if im wrong my appologies.


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## pinoyman (Jan 28, 2005)

Ermo said:


> If you look at the proportions of the face and ponytail the one on the left is NOT just a bigger version of the one on the right. The one on the left has a ponytail that almost hangs down to the neckline, while the one on the right does not. I would question the box on the left since the logo does not look right. Of course it is Cuba so anything can happen.
> 
> Heres a link to the official site that has the logo: clicky


*I thought the logo on the left looks legit and the size too.*


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## Tapewormboy (Apr 18, 2006)

Just finished smoking one of the Siglo VIs from the box on the RIGHT.

Very typical Cohiba flavors, grassy and vanilla. Some spice notes. IMO, the flavor is actually better in the RIGHT box than the LEFT box. Examined the nub and found nice full leaves (what was left of them). No garbage filler. Burn characteristics of tonight's stick were also better in the RIGHT box than the two from the LEFT box (previously smoked). The LEFT box does, however, have darker and more oily wrappers. But the two I smoked from the LEFT box had some burn problems; staying lit and tunneling. Reminiscent of my Tatuaje problems.

I'm no expert with Cuban cigars, but I'd have to say with fairly good certainty that both boxes are legitimate Cohiba. 
*Cuba: 1, Consistency: 0* :ss

Thank you everyone for all the feedback regarding this topic and to those that spoke with me over PM.

*I also emailed the vendor that I purchased the RIGHT box from:*
Dear Mr. Vendor,
I was looking over the Cohiba SLB and noticed that it had some differences from previous Siglo VI SLBs that I have. In particular, the sizes of the brands on the exterior are different. I've attached two pictures showing two SLBs side by side. Each is from 2006, but from different factories.

Left: POS ENE 06
Right: ROA JUL 06

There was some information/rumor that Cohiba had changed some of the SLBs in line (Siglo and Robusto) to make them uniform. But I have neither heard or seen these changes for myself so I don't know exactly what could have been done.

I was wondering if you had any knowledge on this matter? Did Cohiba change any of its packaging in 2006? Is it normal for there to be variations such as these between different factories?

Any information you can provide would be helpful!

Sincerely,
Tapewormboy

*And got this response:*
Dear Tapewormboy,

We have not heard anything about making boxes more uniform. We have; however, seen differences in size of brands and even varnishing on boxes. Cuba makes these boxes so there are some inconsistencies but these type are normal.

Enjoy and all the best,
Mr. Vendor


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## luckybandit (Jul 9, 2006)

nice to see a good vendor with a quick reply!


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## Fredster (Jan 26, 2004)

Like I said, if it's a legit vendor, I don't sweat that stuff. Been smoking long enough to see some wierd stuff. I can also verify what the vendor said about the laquer. I have boxes of Cohibas that the Laquer is a totally different shade on several Cohiba boxes. I can post pictures if I ever figure out my new camera software. 

You're comment about them being the best as well as the most inconsistant is right on.


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## Gargamel (Nov 8, 2004)

Those darker oily wrappers worry me.


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## Tapewormboy (Apr 18, 2006)

Can you explain what you mean?

Both boxes are from legit vendors.



Gargamel said:


> Those darker oily wrappers worry me.


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## Gargamel (Nov 8, 2004)

Tapewormboy said:


> Can you explain what you mean?
> 
> Both boxes are from legit vendors.


When you first posted the pic I thought the ones on the left looked suspect. Then what you wrote about the uneven burn, the "dark oily" wrapper and lack of flavor whether young or not fit the bill of others I have seen that's all. I'm not trying to question your vendor. If you had just sent the pic and no word of the vendor combined with what your opinion was after smoking them that would have been my thought.


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## havana_lover (Feb 15, 2007)

I dont mean to be a rude or to be stepping on anyones toes, but........

Every Cohiba box I have ever seen have had the same logo same cigar bands with the same number of lines above the cohiba logo and there were all 3 caps.. 

But if you smoked one and there werent any branches running down the cigar and he had that cuban flavor then who knows.. 
(they do say the fun is in the chase, right)

I mean here in Germany we can as you know buy them without a problem, so Im not trying to put down anyones stock or claim to be an expert. I was just adding my my $0.02

goodluck


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## FraGil (Jan 25, 2007)

Tapewormboy said:


> Thanks for your input. Do you have pictures of the lids of the 25 count and 10 count SLBs?
> 
> Are the brands different sizes between the 2 sizes?


I certainly do have pics.

Attachment shows a 10ct box on the left and 25ct box on the right. I have copied/pasted the brands and put them side by side at the bottom of the picture for better comparison (as well as drawing boxes within them to allow comparison of height and width of the various componenents).

The width of the COHIBA brand on each box is the same

The height of the COHIBA brand on each box is the same

The width of the HEAD brand on each box is the same

The height of the HEAD brand on each box is the same

The 25ct box lid does seem to use narrower letters as you can see when the 10ct lid is positioned ontop of the 25 in the bottom left image. (The head brands are the same size yet on the 25ct box lid the right hand edge of the head is aligned with the middle of the letter "B" rather than 1/3 of the way through it like the 10ct)

AND there ARE noticable differences in the head itself.

The 10ct box lid has a more angled forehead

The ponytail sits higher at the back of the skull on the 10 box

Hope the above is of use to folks


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## Tapewormboy (Apr 18, 2006)

Great picture FraGil!

The different Head shapes between my two boxes worried me a bit, but it seems now that this does occur along with font differences.


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