# Legitimate, or not? (2nd Opinion)



## Hammerhead (Sep 7, 2005)

Fellow LLG's, after a long (financially-imposed) hiatus, I finally scrounged enough to buy a box of Punch/Punch from a merchant recommended by one of our highly respected community members. Though his opinion is that these are legit, I felt it would put my mind at ease if I could get some additional feedback.

Because of my inexperience in virtually all things Habanos, and the fact that the packaging in some respects did not measure up to the guidelines set forth in the various FAQs, I thought I'd ask some of the FOGs here for a 2nd opinion as to whether or not you felt these were legitimate, or if I (or they!) have been fleeced.

Though the best way to tell is to smoke one or two, I'm reluctant to do so because I have a cold right now, and also I'm not sure how that would be taken by the vendor, should I need to contact them for a return.

Following are a few photos, with my comments regarding the concerns I have on each:

*Inconsistent ring gague. Take a look at the 2 cigars all the way at the left, compared to the 5th and 6th ones from the left. Or, look at the cigar 3rd from the right, compared to the one all the way at the right. I don't think that's camera lens distortion*

*More visible in a closeup:*

*Stamp seemed inked, rather than burned, though at the bottom, it was impressed into the wood fibers:*

*No holographic strip on the seal, or on the box:*

*Box lid was warped:*

*However, the saving grace is that the filler seemed to be characteristic of Cubans in terms of how the rolling is bunched, and the leaves don't seem to have any stems at all.*

These things fly in the fact of the vaunted quality-obsessed nature of Cuban cigar making, so I thought I'd make an inquiry of those who are far more experienced than I in these matters.

Thanks in advance for everyone's help!


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## Hank (Feb 21, 2007)

Whats the white stuff on the foot of the 
cigars, Mold? I think you need to check 
the hologram with a black light.


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## Hammerhead (Sep 7, 2005)

Not mold, otherwise it'd be on more than just the one. It could be cotton fibers from the bundles used to wrap the leaves, which sometimes gets stuck and winds up in the cigar. Per my post, there is no holographic stamp, so I can't check it with a UV light.


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## The Professor (Jul 20, 2006)

Well ... there should almost *never* be a holographic stamp. The absence of one is a plus, in my book. 

As for the other things, if I *really* trusted the vendor, I'd be inclined to say "that's Cuba for you" and perhaps inquire about replacements. The variation on length and RG is pretty odd, IMHO, for a 2007 box of cigars. In 2000, I'd definitely be saying "those crazy Cubans and their nationalized tobacco industry"; but quality control has come a long way since then. The stamp on the bottom has definitely got me scratching my head. Are you sure the "Habanos SA Hecho en Cuba" is inked not branded. Look *very* closely at that. In no world should it be inked....

How do they smell? How do they feel? How sure are you that you can trust the vendor?


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## physiognomy (Feb 6, 2007)

Hammerhead said:


> ....Per my post, there is no holographic stamp, so I can't check it with a UV light.


You should check the box seal with a UV light. A crest should show up centered on the seal, although I hear it can be much harder to see these days. You should have no worries if these were bought from a reputable source, but I'm not experienced enough to make any calls based on your pics.


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## icehog3 (Feb 20, 2005)

The Professor said:


> How sure are you that you can trust the vendor?


Definitely a legit vendor, Dokk. :2


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## The Professor (Jul 20, 2006)

icehog3 said:


> Definitely a legit vendor, Dokk. :2


Then there's *nothing* to worry about. If you're that dissatisfied, ask for an exchange. If they feel like they'll smoke well, I likely wouldn't worry about it (personally). Sure ... I'd be annoyed about the size differences; but how they feel (literally -- how they feel to the touch) would be the determining factor to me as to whether I'd follow up with some kind of exchange. Honestly, it's probably not worth it.

PS, about the bent lid. That happens. Sometimes wood bends, warps, or is naturally curved. Once the nail comes out, it's emphasized.


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## sirxlaughs (Nov 18, 2005)

The shield that comes up under UV light on the seal is almost always copied. It is unfortunately not a good indicator of authenticity anymore. The big questions are - Do you trust your vendor? and How do they smoke?

They look like they have trip caps. The construction looks very nice on the cigars. Are there any variations in the length? I have had cabs with slightly varying gauges.


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## galaga (Sep 18, 2003)

Something for you to do while you sit there fretting. Get a magnifying glass and look at the microprint. Find the post by Poker concerning what to look for in a legit box--very informative. Talk to someone you trust and confirm the source, like you should have done before you ordered -- another reason why herfs are such a rewarding pastime 

Good luck.


ps looks good to me, but WTF do I know? I don't smoke Cuban cigars.


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## Hammerhead (Sep 7, 2005)

Fair 'nuff, Prof. Per my sidebar message to Tom, let's not rule out paranoia as a possible diagnosis.  It was based on his recommendation that I went with this particular vendor in the first place, but to reiterate what I just sent to you via PM, I wouldn't discount the possibility that even a legitimate vendor can fall victim to a dishonest distributor or warehouse staff.


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## chibnkr (May 2, 2007)

Just have to trust the vendor. I've seen a ton of variations over the past 12 years on legitimate boxes of impeccable provenance. Although everything there looks fine to me, that in and of itself doesn't mean you're "in the clear" so to speak. It all comes down to knowing your tobacconist. And smoking a lot of cigars.

Beautiful looking wrappers, I might add!


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## mdtaggart (Sep 22, 2006)

Smoke one! You will know! Or send me one and I will smoke it and let you know!
Look good to me.


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## Tapewormboy (Apr 18, 2006)

They look real to me. 

1) The ring gauge variation: Almost all Cuban boxes that I possess in dress boxes have that exact variation of thicker cigars near the left and right sides. Not sure why, but it's just how they pack and sort them

2) The "Habanos" stamp is not actually a brand at all, it's a pressure ink stamp. MSC is a legit code. 

3) Lip warping means nothing.

Vendor trust is 95% of this game. PM me the vendor if you like...


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## The Professor (Jul 20, 2006)

Hammerhead said:


> Fair 'nuff, Prof. Per my sidebar message to Tom, let's not rule out paranoia as a possible diagnosis.  It was based on his recommendation that I went with this particular vendor in the first place, but to reiterate what I just sent to you via PM, I wouldn't discount the possibility that even a legitimate vendor can fall victim to a dishonest distributor or warehouse staff.


If you can't trust *any* vendor, then this is the wrong hobby for you, brother. :2


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## galaga (Sep 18, 2003)

poker said:


> Agreed. When one considers everything there is:
> Length
> Ring
> Construction
> ...


Taken from this post, and a very fine discussion it was.

G. Frey/J. Tempchin

...........
It's a losing proposition,
But one you can't refuse.
It's the politics of contraband,
It's the...........


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## Hammerhead (Sep 7, 2005)

The Professor said:


> If you can't trust *any* vendor, then this is the wrong hobby for you, brother. :2


You misread me. As this is the first time with this particular vendor, I was leaving some room for doubt. The vendor can't be expected to check every box, and stranger things have been known to happen. Just being precautious, that's all.

Thanks for everyone's feedback. I'll spark one up over the weekend (should be done with my cold by then), and report back.


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## Old Sailor (Jul 27, 2006)

They look ok ta me:2


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## BamaDoc77 (Jan 31, 2007)

Look good 2 me...........you get those in the EAST?.. ha ha


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## Hammerhead (Sep 7, 2005)

BamaDoc77 said:


> Look good 2 me...........you get those in the EAST?.. ha ha


Indeed, I received a SQUARE deal, on the LEVEL for sure.


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## DBall (Jun 4, 2007)

icehog3 said:


> Definitely a legit vendor, Dokk. :2


That should pretty much end any speculation right there. :tu


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## Hammerhead (Sep 7, 2005)

Like I said... chalk it up to paranoia.


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## Todd W (Jan 9, 2008)

The Professor said:


> Well ... there should almost *never* be a holographic stamp. The absence of one is a plus, in my book.
> 
> As for the other things, if I *really* trusted the vendor, I'd be inclined to say "that's Cuba for you" and perhaps inquire about replacements. The variation on length and RG is pretty odd, IMHO, for a 2007 box of cigars. In 2000, I'd definitely be saying "those crazy Cubans and their nationalized tobacco industry"; but quality control has come a long way since then. The stamp on the bottom has definitely got me scratching my head. Are you sure the "Habanos SA Hecho en Cuba" is inked not branded. Look *very* closely at that. In no world should it be inked....
> 
> How do they smell? How do they feel? How sure are you that you can trust the vendor?


This quote (and this thread) have helped put my mind at ease a bit about a similar question I had. I was a bit perplexed about the Holgram, and realized it might just be a Cohiba thing (??) I was surprised not to find one when I came a cross a box of Monte #2's that had similar characteristics to the Punch Punch described. The taste and feel were enough to pacify me. But still, paranoia...  I assume my source is 100% trustworthy.


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## Hammerhead (Sep 7, 2005)

Todd W said:


> But still, paranoia...


Well, you know the old saying... "Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you!"

This is just one reason why ClubStogie has the reputation it has rightly earned. It's hard to find a community of folks who willingly share their observations to help others. Case in point, you were sitting there wondering about this yourself, and have likewise benefitted from the responses in this thread.

Thanks again to all who chimed in to help!
_(And a big thanks to Icehog3 for putting up with me)_


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## icehog3 (Feb 20, 2005)

Hammerhead said:


> Well, you know the old saying... "Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you!"
> 
> This is just one reason why ClubStogie has the reputation it has rightly earned. It's hard to find a community of folks who willingly share their observations to help others. Case in point, you were sitting there wondering about this yourself, and have likewise benefitted from the responses in this thread.
> 
> ...


Putting up with you? I'm just glad to see you around Brother.


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## Smoked (Apr 12, 2007)

I used the examine the hell out of every box that I purchased but now I just give them a quick inspection. The paranoia goes away after a few box purchases. The Punch Punch is one of my favorite cigars. Why don't I have a box? Hmm.


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## JPH (Jun 30, 2006)

I wouldn't even question it if that was my box.... they seem fine.

I heart punch

(How girly was that)


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## mdtaggart (Sep 22, 2006)

JPH said:


> I heart punch
> 
> (How girly was that)


Too dam girly! Repent and spark up a Punch, girly man! :ss


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## icehog3 (Feb 20, 2005)

mdtaggart said:


> Too dam girly! Repent and spark up a Punch, girly man! :ss


Yeah Jeremy...you have a Punch in your purse, don'tcha?  :r


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## Munkey (Jan 14, 2008)

icehog3 said:


> Yeah Jeremy...you have a Punch in your purse, don'tcha?  :r


What? You have a problem with Murse's?


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## icehog3 (Feb 20, 2005)

Munkey said:


> What? You have a problem with Murse's?


Maybe.... :r


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## JPH (Jun 30, 2006)

I think some people need a Punch in the mouth.....

I heart IceHog3


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## icehog3 (Feb 20, 2005)

JPH said:


> I think some people need a Punch in the mouth.....
> 
> I heart IceHog3


Right back atcha, Jeremy.


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## Blueface (May 28, 2005)

:r
I love the issue of the different rings.
If I could add up how often I have had that and equate it to money, I would be rich by now.
I recently had a box of ERdM PCs that I could count four distinctly different sizes in the cigars, all in a row, next to each other.
As in this example shown, the one on the end was the biggest one and then they got smaller as they went inward towards center.
The one on the end was so much larger than the ones in the middle that it was shocking at first and then funny.
All smoked fine.

Quite common in boxes I have gotten when it involves a dress box.
Harder to see something like that with a cab but do recall some odd balls in the past.
Had a box of Siglo VI's that must have had the ribbon placed by the Hulk as the cigars on the outside were all compressed by it. Smoked fine but why would that happen to such an expensive box of cigars? Answer: Cuban - make cigars to meet quota or you die today.


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## Smoked (Apr 12, 2007)

Blueface said:


> :r
> Had a box of Siglo VI's that must have had the ribbon placed by the Hulk as the cigars on the outside were all compressed by it. Smoked fine but why would that happen to such an expensive box of cigars? Answer: Cuban - make cigars to meet quota or you die today.


Man that would totally suck. I could not even imagine getting some Siglo VI in a cab and having them tied like that. :hn


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## Blueface (May 28, 2005)

Smoked said:


> Man that would totally suck. I could not even imagine getting some Siglo VI in a cab and having them tied like that. :hn


Pisser is at that time, got a few boxes and didn't bother to open them all as thought I would keep them forever sealed aging.
Learned my lesson well.
Open every box the second it arrives and let those pups see the light.


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## Airborne RU (Oct 7, 2006)

They look good to me.

BTW the ring gauge isn't in consistant just the way each, formerly round, cigar smushed when they were box pressed. Same ring gauge, just some are flatter than others.


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## Harpo (Oct 11, 2007)

They look fine to my fairly untrained eye. 

Don't forget, just because they're Cuban doesn't mean they'll be magically flawless. Oh, and great choice of cigar! Those Punch Punch's are MMMMMMMMM tasty! :tu


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## IrishCorona (Mar 7, 2007)

Habanos makes plenty of little mistakes.....We're talking about a Handmade product that has a much larger demand then supply for the most part. If one wants mathmatic perfection, You need a machine and not a Human....lol.

My Monte Petit Edmundos have a slight angle on the foot cut on more then a couple out of various 10 pack Boxes. They came from an UBER legit vendor. 

IME You can't fake the one Singular Flavor(Twang) of great Cuban tabak. It'll be stamped on your brain forever.

I wish I had enough money to keep Punch Punch in a rotation of 5 years minimum box age....hehe.:chk:gn


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## burninator (Jul 11, 2006)

Punch-Punch :dr

Smoke em. A reputable vendor knows his sources, just as you must.


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## Hammerhead (Sep 7, 2005)

icehog3 said:


> Putting up with you? I'm just glad to see you around Brother.


Glad to be back, bro.

UPDATE: Yep, they're legit. Sparked one up, and there's absolutely no room for doubt. Still a tad 'young', though... seemd to be in the 'sick period', but Habanos, nevertheless.

Thanks to all!


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