# An odd example of pipe depreciation...



## drastic_quench (Sep 12, 2008)

I saw this Ronny Thuner pipe listed as an estate on smokingpipes, and I thought it looked familiar. Sure enough, I had seen it before.

Frenchy sold it (new) on his site for $375: Ronny Thuner #82 Hand Made In Sweden

As an estate graded Condition: 4.9/5 Mint, it sold for the low low price of $185 at smokingpipes:
Misc. Estate Ronny Thuner Partially Rusticated Volcano with Bamboo Pipes at Smoking Pipes .com
The price is no longer listed, but it was $185.

I always thought pipes - even when smoked - held a lot of their original value -- if not appreciate in value if old or rare enough. Man, what happened here? I feel sorry for the guy that had to turn right around and sell it at a steep loss.


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## SmokinJohnny (Jan 21, 2009)

Could be a lot of things. Maybe the name Ronny Thunner doesn't represent "classic" the way a name like Dunhill does. The fact it was smoked even once knocked the value down like a new car. Factory fresh just has a different meaning than pre-owned. I would never buy a pipe no matter how exotic and expensive thinking it will hold its value. I would buy it purely for what the asthetics do for me and how well it smokes with no concern for its future other than proper care.


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## Mister Moo (Sep 8, 2005)

Sehrrrrrrrrrrr interessant....

So then. A $5 cob or a $30 basket pipe can be great smokers, same as a $200 something else. A pipes value and beauty, thus, must be in the eye of the beholder. Personally, I wouldn't give $50 for a bamboo concoction like that RT pipe but two other folks decided they'd pay over $300 and under $200 respectively. These pipes are worth what we think they're worth.

(I am very wary, after hard experience, of pipes (and pipe values) from producers who have been in the game for less than 20 years. Thuner may be a genius in any case (smokepipers_heaven) and it's possible someone just made a spectacular firesale buy on that pipe.)


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## dmkerr (Oct 27, 2008)

Rule of thumb used to be that a smoked pipe was worth half of current new retail. In other words, if you bought an Upshall P grade in 1992 for $180 and traded it in 10 years later, it would be worth $140 (half of current retail of $280 with price increase over 10 year period). If you traded it in a week after you bought it, you'd get $90 (half of $180). The same price held if you sold it outright. 

Problems arose for Dunhill patent number pipes and pre-transition Barlings (among others) since there was no real current retail price. So a lot of it is what the market will bear, as Moo stated. But it appears to me that the RT pipe was sold at the proper used price.


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## Mister Moo (Sep 8, 2005)

dmkerr said:


> Rule of thumb used to be that a smoked pipe was worth half of current new retail. In other words, if you bought an Upshall P grade in 1992 for $180 and traded it in 10 years later, it would be worth $140 (half of current retail of $280 with price increase over 10 year period). If you traded it in a week after you bought it, you'd get $90 (half of $180). The same price held if you sold it outright...


I never knew there was a rule of thumb.

What about matters of supply/demand or scarcity to factor in? Can the general rule that applies to Savinelli pipes be used on pipes from S. Bang?


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## Zeabed (Apr 23, 2009)

Also, the economy has changed in the last year or so.... that could conceivably affect supply and demand values.


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## SmokinJohnny (Jan 21, 2009)

I think the rule of thumb Dan is getting at is what a guy asks himself when looking at estate pipes. If a guy really likes the pipe, he doesn't want to overpay. Nor does he want to see the deal walk away. There's got to be some starting point.


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## dmkerr (Oct 27, 2008)

Mister Moo said:


> I never knew there was a rule of thumb.
> 
> What about matters of supply/demand or scarcity to factor in? Can the general rule that applies to Savinelli pipes be used on pipes from S. Bang?


Rules are broken all the time. Scarcity would certainly play a factor as would overall desirability and supply/demand. My only suggestion regarding the sale of pipes is that you charge what you think you can get for it and go from there. If I wanted a particular estate S. Bang pipe and it was only available at a certain price, I'd either pay it or forget about owning that pipe, due to its uniqueness. If it were a nice but run of the mill Dunhill, I'd forego it if the price were more than half retail because I'd probably run into another one more in my price range at a later time. Your points are certainly well taken. The rule I cited was a general rule, and is possibly somewhat outdated. For the RT pipe in question, it works for me but may not for someone willing to pay more.

Edit: Nope, the rule appears to be still in play. A cursory glance at smokingpipes.com listing of estates shows they follow that rule to a large extent. Not sure about other sellers but I've got my curiousity up now so I'll check it out and comment later.


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## dmkerr (Oct 27, 2008)

SmokinJohnny said:


> I think the rule of thumb Dan is getting at is what a guy asks himself when looking at estate pipes. If a guy really likes the pipe, he doesn't want to overpay. Nor does he want to see the deal walk away. There's got to be some starting point.


If a guy really likes a pipe, he is more likely to overpay. I'd negotiate on an estate pipe that I thought was priced too high over the 50% rule. If it was something I thought I had to have based on the factors mentioned above, I'd eventually buy it at the stated price if the seller refused to budge. Otherwise, I'd walk. Objectively speaking (meaning, all things being equal) you are overpaying if you pay much more than 50% of current retail, IMHO.

But when are all things equal when it comes to the subjective experience of pipe shopping?


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## Alpedhuez55 (Dec 16, 2005)

I recently sold a few name brand smokers that I did not think were up to par as far as smoking quality. My stanwell horn I bought three years ago fetched about $35 more than what I paid for it new. A 70s Charatan I paid $15 sold for $40 and an older Saseini 4 dot that cost $21 went for $56. Last year I turned over two pipes, a Nording freehand and a Viprati, that I bought unsmoked on Ebay for $70 & $60 respectively...for over $150 each.

Look at it like a car. You can get a $15000 mid sized Kia that may turn out to be a great car with no mechanical problems. And you can get a $15,000 smaller Honda that will be smaller, maybe has electrical glitches or other minor problems. Yes you are more likely to get a better car from Honda than Kia. From a driving standpoint the Kia may a better car, but the resale will still be higher on the Honda. 

Thuner is just not a big name yet. He makes great looking pipes but has only been making them for a few years. You also rarely if ever see his pipes sld anywhere other than Frency's. In five years he could be up there with some of those guys selling pipes for $1,000 or more. But he is not there yet.


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## AcworthAl (Mar 16, 2009)

I am not an Ebay user, but in the real world one can only get what somebody else offers to pay, and today folks may need the dough and are willing to get what they can NOW as opposed to waiting. I just bought a home in GA for the same price it sold for 13 years ago. I almost felt sorry for the seller. However, the husband had been transferred and they did not have time to wait for the price to climb back up. BTW, I thought that RT pipe was butt ugly


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## MarkC (Jul 4, 2009)

AcworthAl said:


> BTW, I thought that RT pipe was butt ugly


Yeah, the seller got more than he would have got from me. :laugh:


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## Mad Hatter (Apr 8, 2007)

MarkC said:


> Yeah, the seller got more than he would have got from me. :laugh:


Me too :beerchug:


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## drastic_quench (Sep 12, 2008)

Yeah, you know what I don't get? Bamboo is one of the cheapest materials on the planet. The stuff grows better than dandelions. But chop off a briar's shank, add a knuckle or two of bamboo, and the price soars. What the hell? You'd think it'd be the other way around - bamboo for cheap pipes (nice as it looks) and full briar shank would be costlier.


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## Mister Moo (Sep 8, 2005)

dmkerr said:


> ... but I've got my curiousity up now so I'll check it out and comment later.


Mine too. This is interesting.


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## parris001 (Mar 29, 2008)

uu Didn't care for the RT pipe.


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## dmkerr (Oct 27, 2008)

Mister Moo said:


> Mine too. This is interesting.


Well, you brought up an excellent point regarding S Bang pipes that seems to fly with any Danish handmade. It's hard to find too many grades of Danish pipe like the Italians and the English have grades, or at least I'm not familiar with them as I am with Italian and English pipes. But for the latter, the half current retail seems to hold. I checked out a few different retailers and found several examples, specifically with the various grades of Castellos, Ashtons, Dunhills and Ser Jacopos (along with il Ceppo, Mastro, Cavicchi, etc). Charatans are dicey due to the Lane ownership pipes seeming not to match up with post-Lanes on price. Upshalls are similarly dicey. GBD and Comoy don't seem to make as many high grade lines as they used to (hard to find a Flame Grain, Pedigree, Specimen Straight Grain or Blue Riband as a new pipe). I'm not familiar enough with the pricing structure for Beckers, Tsuges (or any Japanese makers) or all the other various handmades. But for the brands above, used pipes appear to be for sale at half current retail.

Ebay purchases do not follow this for obvious reasons but pipes sold through a B&M or etailer do seem to. If Bear Graves is around, perhaps he can comment.


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