# My fold-n-stuff method.



## commonsenseman (Apr 18, 2008)

It's officially taken me just shy of two years to figure out flakes, and I still have plenty to learn. Flakes are by far my favorite form of tobacco because you can control so many aspects of the experience. From folding-n-stuffing, to fully rubbing out, to the "screw-in" method (or, in my case the "screw-up" method), there are many different ways to prepare a flake to be smoked. Besides that there are numerous flakes to be smoked, all of them have slightly different burn rates, are processed a little thicker or thinner than others (in the case of SG flakes, they're both), some have a rubbery texture, & some come dry as a bone. To throw another wrench in the gears, every flake smokes differently in every pipe.

So how's a fella to figure all this out, without spending years & years? Well, long story short, he's not. Nomatter how much advice anybody offers, it's one of those things you have to figure out on your own. Just like riding a bike. A few well placed pointers can help speed up the process though, I'll try to keep this as easy to understand as possible.

For the purpose of this thread, I'll focus on the fold-n-stuff method, my personal favorite. I like it because it smokes very slowly, allowing for a much longer smoke than other methods. If done properly, it can really enhance the "flake experience".









Well aged Bracken Flake pictured here.

Ok, enough rambling, here's my "commonsense" approach. (thanks to Dub for some of the methods)

Pipes: A lot of people seem to say that a narrow, tall pipe is best for flakes. I have no evidence against this, except that you could potentially smoke them in any pipe, not only tall thin ones. For each pipe the amount of tobacco needed may differ, as well as the number of times it will have to be folded to fit properly. One of my personal favorite pipes for smoking VA flakes is My Savinelli 101, it's a very basic pipe with an average sized bowl. It's kind of a chubby Billiard. Technically a filter pipe, but I don't use filters most of the time. It just seems to like flakes so much that I smoke them quite often in it.










Flakes: Of course any flake will do. One thing to consider is the moisture content. If it's too dry it'll crumble into nothing or spontaneously combust in your face. Too wet & it'll taste like crap, smoke like crap, & leave a ton of moisture in the bottom of your bowl. Not to mention that the more moist a flake is, the more it seems to expand, sometimes making the draw impossibly tight. While all tobacco is slightly different, I prefer most of mine just on the moist side of really dry. In other words, dry, but not quite crumbly dry. To gauge this, when I fold a flake in half I like it to break a little bit, but not snap like a twig. One of the easiest flakes to learn fold-n-stuff with is probably J.F. Germain's Brown Flake. It burns quite well & isn't very temperamental.

Method: After drying my flake to my preferred moisture content, I set it on the table next to my pipe. I do this to try to guage the bowl depth. I shoot for about 2/3rds the depth of the bowl, so it leaves a little bit of air at the bottom. I can't emphasize enough how much of a difference this makes. For the above savinelli, with most "normal" sized flakes (like Irish Flake), I fold them in thirds, trying to keep each section the same length. Then I sort of roll it the other way to make it a cylinder of vertical strands of tobacco. Here's where you can control the rate of burn. (By rubbing it out just a little you can increase the rate, by leaving it as is it will burn much more slowly.) Then, I start to put the roll of tobacco into the pipe. It takes some experience both with the pipe & with the flake to determine how much to shove in. If you fill it too tight, the tobacco will expand making the draw way too tight. If you fill it too loose, you won't be able to keep it lit. A good general rule of thumb I've found is to fill it 75-80% of the diameter of the pipe with tobacco. You can test the draw & it should be quite loose at this point, since it will be expanding after the initial light. Then I will sprinkle a very small amount of well rubbed out tobacco on top. I have learned that too much of this actually makes it harder to get it lit properly. It make take several false-lights to get it going all the way. One way to help is to "pull" the tobacco towards the middle of the bowl with the little spoon thingy on the czech tool, that makes getting the outside tobacco lit much easier. Once you get it going puff very slowly & methodically, even rhythmically, the cadence required for this method is slightly different than other methods. Do not tamp down the tobacco after the initial light (even there, do it as gently as humanly possible), this will close the air pocket at the bottom of the bowl & possibly ruin the draw, thus ruining the entire experience. If anything is needed to maintain, just gently pull the tobacco inwards, and/or re-light.

That's about it. If done properly it can be extremely rewarding, if not it can be extremely frustrating. For more info check out the MacBaren page on flakes, very informative.

Carry on. ipe:


----------



## johnmoss (Jun 18, 2010)

Great write up. I've yet to fully figure out flakes also. I almost always end up rubbing them out because I just can't get the "fold-n-stuff" down. I'll reread this tonight and give it a shot with some Stoney.

Thanks!


----------



## dj1340 (Mar 30, 2009)

Great info Jeff, I have been practicing with flakes for some time myself.


----------



## Jack Straw (Nov 20, 2008)

Awesome post Jeff! 

I find myself going back and forth on rubbing out flakes vs folding them. Sometimes I'll go through periods of only doing the one or the other. Recently I've been folding almost everything. But as you said, that's half the fun, the control you have over the tobacco.

I will have to try your air pocket trick!


----------



## Jack Straw (Nov 20, 2008)

johnmoss said:


> just can't get the "fold-n-stuff" down


The thing that made a difference for me with this method, is as Jeff said making sure you leave plenty of open space in the bowl. I guess the "stuff" part of the name of the technique is somewhat misleading. If you are stuffing the bowl to capacity this way, you will have to relight all the time.


----------



## indigosmoke (Sep 1, 2009)

+1 to what everyone else has said. I'm sure I'll now be referring newbies to this post as well as Dub's video on a regular basis. RG bump coming your way. This is also a nice early contender for post of the year. The clever or funny ones often get the most notice, but it is solid, informative posts like this that make Puff the excellent resource it is for pipe smokers.


----------



## johnmoss (Jun 18, 2010)

Jack Straw said:


> The thing that made a difference for me with this method, is as Jeff said making sure you leave plenty of open space in the bowl. I guess the "stuff" part of the name of the technique is somewhat misleading. If you are stuffing the bowl to capacity this way, you will have to relight all the time.


I'm positive I was doing that part wrong. I was filling the bowl and stuffing just as would any other tobacco. Sounds like it should be much looser.


----------



## woops (Aug 5, 2007)

commonsenseman said:


> *I fold them in thirds, trying to keep each section the same length. *Then I sort of roll it the other way to make it a cylinder of vertical strands of tobacco.


Jeff, when you fold in thirds .... What is the starting position of the flake?
If the flake is layed out in front of you ... Is the length, left to right? or up and down, when you start the fold?


----------



## Natedogg (Jun 21, 2010)

Nice post. Even though I figured out how to fold-and-stuff, I still prefer to rub them out. I always end up with a little small pieces left, so I created a bag that I just dump all the tiny leftovers in. I will eventually smoke the mix in that bag.


----------



## CaptainBlenderman (Sep 3, 2010)

Great post! I only recently started into flake and still haven't really figured it out. My experience with it has been fine, but I'm still trying to find that method that works perfectly for me. I'll give this a shot. Mmmm...jonesin' for some now...


----------



## commonsenseman (Apr 18, 2008)

woops said:


> Jeff, when you fold in thirds .... What is the starting position of the flake?
> If the flake is layed out in front of you ... Is the length, left to right? or up and down, when you start the fold?


I have it in my hand, horizontally. I then fold it over from right to left. It's then like a short, triple-thick flake.

You know what, I should post some pics. In my head, everything makes sense. In words, not so much.


----------



## woops (Aug 5, 2007)

As detailed as I am, you would think that I could put that together, but it seems that I am a picture person when it comes to learning certain things. Thanks Jeff.


----------



## commonsenseman (Apr 18, 2008)

woops said:


> As detailed as I am, you would think that I could put that together, but it seems that I am a picture person when it comes to learning certain things. Thanks Jeff.


No worries. I'll try to post up some detailed pics soon.

Also, I feel like I should give some credit to the Moo-man as well. I'm sure he influenced "my way" of doing it.


----------



## shannensmall (Jun 30, 2010)

Flakes are also one of my favorite types of tobaccos. Wile reading this, I'm smoking some Uni Flake that I did the fold and stuff method. I can't agree with you more. Each tobacco is different. Wile Uni and Irish Flake seem to like being folded and stuffed, P.S. Lux Twist Flake seems to like being completely rubbed out, but then again PSLF isn't exactly your standard flake. Half the fun of this hobby is trying to figure out the best methods behind smoking various types of baccy.


----------



## El Gringo (Nov 30, 2010)

Great post...I love flakes.
Is there an English in a flake?


----------



## commonsenseman (Apr 18, 2008)

El ****** said:


> Great post...I love flakes.
> Is there an English in a flake?


SG Balkan Flake & Navy Flake come to mind, not sure what else.


----------



## indigosmoke (Sep 1, 2009)

I love SG Chocolate Flake. To me, it's just an very enjoyable English. I don't really taste any chocolate topping, or if it is there it is so subtle as to just add a slight sweetness to the blend. I think C&D Star of the East also comes as a flake, but I'm not sure if it is a true flake of more of a broken flake like many of the C&D blends.


----------



## commonsenseman (Apr 18, 2008)

Also:

-SG Chocolate Flake (thanks John, one of my favs)
-Bengal Slices (no longer produced)
-C&D Burley Flake #4
-C&D Star of the East Flake
-C&D Sunset Harbor Flake
-C&D Tuskegee Airman
-Dan Tobacco Old Ironsides
-GLP Quiet Nights
-Captain Earle's Mystic Blend
-JFG Special Latakia Flake
-McClelland Blackeny's Best Latakia Flake
-McClelland Latakia Flake
-McConnell Latakia Flake


----------



## Jack Straw (Nov 20, 2008)

Also GH Bob's Chocolate Flake, and Bob's Square Cut is a flake cut but with square shaped broken-ish flakes.


----------



## indigosmoke (Sep 1, 2009)

Jeff, the Tuskegee Airman I got was more of a crumble cake. Very tasty tobacco though and highly recommended. Just about the coolest tin this side of Squadron Leader as well.


----------



## Nachman (Oct 16, 2010)

I had never known anyone who smoked flakes and didn't do the internet when I first started smoking flakes so I had to learn by trial and error. The method I eventually developed by trial and error is exactly the same as the one commonsenseman uses. I just wish I could have read his excellent post back then and I would have enjoyed my first few pounds of flake tobacco much more.


----------



## ultramag (Aug 23, 2007)

Great info. 

I still fight with flakes quite regularly. I find this particularly annoying because so many of the tobaccos I enjoy come in flake form. I'll have to try and see if it helps me but one of your tips is in the exact opposite direction of the way I've been heading most recently. I've been crumbling up more and more tobacco getting increasingly more rubbed out to put on top of the folded flakes in hopes of getting the folded portion going better from the beginning. I will definitely be trying to follow your advice to the contrary for the short term at least to see if this helps. I also think it hurts my efforts that I'm using so many different pipes all the time. Perhaps I should single out a pipe or three for my flake efforts for a while.

Thanks for the tips!!!


----------



## commonsenseman (Apr 18, 2008)

indigosmoke said:


> Jeff, the Tuskegee Airman I got was more of a crumble cake. Very tasty tobacco though and highly recommended. Just about the coolest tin this side of Squadron Leader as well.


Hmm, didn't realize that.



Nachman said:


> I had never known anyone who smoked flakes and didn't do the internet when I first started smoking flakes so I had to learn by trial and error. The method I eventually developed by trial and error is exactly the same as the one commonsenseman uses. I just wish I could have read his excellent post back then and I would have enjoyed my first few pounds of flake tobacco much more.


Cool :tea: 


ultramag said:


> Great info.
> 
> I still fight with flakes quite regularly. I find this particularly annoying because so many of the tobaccos I enjoy come in flake form. I'll have to try and see if it helps me but one of your tips is in the exact opposite direction of the way I've been heading most recently. I've been crumbling up more and more tobacco getting increasingly more rubbed out to put on top of the folded flakes in hopes of getting the folded portion going better from the beginning. I will definitely be trying to follow your advice to the contrary for the short term at least to see if this helps. I also think it hurts my efforts that I'm using so many different pipes all the time. Perhaps I should single out a pipe or three for my flake efforts for a while.
> 
> Thanks for the tips!!!


Even a blind squirrel (me) finds a nut every now and again.

I'm no pro (less than 2 years experience), but it's been my preferred method of preparing flakes for a while. Perhaps more "rubble" on top would help, for me though it's only made it harder.


----------



## ultramag (Aug 23, 2007)

commonsenseman said:


> Perhaps more "rubble" on top would help, for me though it's only made it harder.


Probably not. I was actually agreeing with using less as a possible solution. I can say for sure that more has not been helping my issues at all, and looking back may actually be confounding things further. Thanks again. :tu


----------



## canadianpiper (Nov 27, 2010)

I have tried both rubbing them out and fold and stuff method both with varying results and cannot decide which works best for me so I will try the air pocket method and maybe leave more space in the bowl.
thanks.


----------



## laloin (Jun 29, 2010)

thanks for the great post Dave. I'm still trying to figure out flakes myself. Some flakes are great folded and stuffed, and well other's preferr fully rubbed out. Like PS LTF.
any of the MacB flakes preferr the fold and stuff, and I'm trying to picture in my head what you wrote, but can't soo how bout some pictures would help 
troy


----------



## commonsenseman (Apr 18, 2008)

canadianpiper said:


> I have tried both rubbing them out and fold and stuff method both with varying results and cannot decide which works best for me so I will try the air pocket method and maybe leave more space in the bowl.
> thanks.


While not the traditional "Air Pocket Method", I do like to leave an air pocket at the bottom.

Here's the real version:








laloin said:


> thanks for the great post Dave. I'm still trying to figure out flakes myself. Some flakes are great folded and stuffed, and well other's preferr fully rubbed out. Like PS LTF.
> any of the MacB flakes preferr the fold and stuff, and I'm trying to picture in my head what you wrote, but can't soo how bout some pictures would help
> troy


I will post some pictures tomorrow after work, "Joe". :wink:


----------



## ruralhipster (Jan 15, 2010)

While I see fully rubbed out and fold and stuff being the two most common ways to enjoy a flake I have had my best luck so far with just breaking into loose slivers, fill and tamp gently. I will try this technique next time however, the joy of flakes is trying them several ways.


----------



## commonsenseman (Apr 18, 2008)

I used Erinmore Flake tonight instead:










Folded:









Rolled:









Stuffed:









Added sprinkles:









Lit:


----------



## laloin (Jun 29, 2010)

now that makes sense to me dave. I can do that with the method you showed. now if I can get to the bottom of the bowl without relights that's the challange heheh
thanks heaps dave
troy


----------



## d_day (Aug 24, 2008)

Great post. 

I had never tried fold n stuff until a month or so ago. I saw the instructions from MacBaren and tried it out. I chose to test it with Stonehaven and my Puff meer. I took a full flake of Stonehaven and cut it in half. I put one half on top of the other so it was two layers thick. I fold it in half one direction, and then folded it in half the other way. I put the folded end in the bowl and pushed it down until I met some resistance. There was about a quarter inch sticking out above the top of the bowl. Now, I had never seen instructions beyond what I had already done, so I was stymied. I knew I couldn't light it if it wasn't completely in the bowl, so I put my thumb over it, and pressed down. This seemed to break it up a bit, but it got it in the bowl. How did it smoke? Well, after lighting it twice, it never went out, burned cool, and took about 2 hours to smoke. So, when smoking Stonehaven, this is what I do.


----------



## commonsenseman (Apr 18, 2008)

d_day said:


> Great post.
> 
> I had never tried fold n stuff until a month or so ago. I saw the instructions from MacBaren and tried it out. I chose to test it with Stonehaven and my Puff meer. I took a full flake of Stonehaven and cut it in half. I put one half on top of the other so it was two layers thick. I fold it in half one direction, and then folded it in half the other way. I put the folded end in the bowl and pushed it down until I met some resistance. There was about a quarter inch sticking out above the top of the bowl. Now, I had never seen instructions beyond what I had already done, so I was stymied. I knew I couldn't light it if it wasn't completely in the bowl, so I put my thumb over it, and pressed down. This seemed to break it up a bit, but it got it in the bowl. How did it smoke? Well, after lighting it twice, it never went out, burned cool, and took about 2 hours to smoke. So, when smoking Stonehaven, this is what I do.


Well that shoots my "pocket of air at the bottom" theory to crap. :mmph:

Glad it works for ya though!


----------



## WyoBob (Mar 6, 2007)

My first try at fold and stuff (around April of 2010) turned out great. I can't remember which flake it was but it worked very well.

Since then, I've tried fold & stuff with FVF, PS LNF & LTF, OGS, Escudo and a couple others I've forgotten. It seems like my success runs around 50%. I do get longer smokes with the same tobacco with F&S when things work well but, when it doesn't work, it's kind of frustrating. The FVF is frustrating, the PS flakes much less so.

When I rub out any of the above tobaccos, I generally get a 100% good smoke though I still have a bit of trouble with FVF, so, I rub out my flakes pretty much all of the time now.


----------



## freestoke (Feb 13, 2011)

commonsenseman said:


> It's officially taken me just shy of two years to figure out flakes, and I still have plenty to learn. Flakes are by far my favorite form of tobacco because you can control so many aspects of the experience. From folding-n-stuffing, to fully rubbing out, to the "screw-in" method (or, in my case the "screw-up" method), there are many different ways to prepare a flake to be smoked.


I've stumbled onto flakes only recently. How one builds the fire is half the fun. Not a lot you can do with loose tobacco other than vary how tight you pack it, one way or another. It's the difference between a pile of leaves and a properly constructed campfire: both will light and burn well, but one is easier to put together than the other.

Great post!


----------



## woops (Aug 5, 2007)

Used this method last night in a bowl of Stonehaven. Although it did ok, I had to constantly relight the tobacco (more than usual). I should've let the flake dry out a little before filling and smoking. I'm certain that my issue had more to due with moist tobacco than method. 

I'll give it another shot down the road. Thanks, Jeff.


----------



## Reverie Forest (Mar 31, 2009)

I still enjoy this method, though its hybrid between Jeff's and Pearce's - meaning I fold as Jeff does, and semi-rub out after folding, as Pearce does. And yes, drying out is important to minimise the relighting. 

Thank you again, Jeff for your contribution!


----------



## freestoke (Feb 13, 2011)

I have to add that I've gotten very weird with this "stuffing" the past two days. I find myself laying out individual strands lengthwise of those flakes that have somewhat broken up, piling them like a bundle of kindling until I have what will fit the bowl. I then place them in the bowl, push the top flattish and light up. More or less a pseudo fold and stuff.

Am I spiraling out of control, heading for a compartmentalized obsessive compulsive disorder? I can imagine Adrian Monk doing something like this if he smoked a pipe, possibly even with ribbon. Will I start to be afraid of the hopeless, unorganizable blob of Prince Albert?


----------



## RJpuffs (Jan 27, 2008)

A few tips about flakes, especially when you go to stuff-n-fold 'em. Once rubbed out, they ain't flakes no more.

Flakes like to burn down the "grain". That is, along the length of the pressed strands. Therefore, they prefer to be ignited along the short edge. Folding should be done to maintain this burn direction.

When folding, dry to the consistency you want before you begin to fold, its easier and neater to load and fire it up in one shot.

Flakes expand when heated. Be sure to leave enough space in the bowl (sides) to allow this, or else you end up with a plugged bowl.

On the flip side of the flake (coin), too loose a fill will make it difficult to ignite all the exposed tops (remember, light on the short end). Filling loose debris on top does help, but if there are too many gaps between the strands/folded ends, they will not light evenly.

Personally I fold the flake in half along the grain (length of flake). Then I fold over two or three times (depending on height of bowl). I try to keep about 1/3 bowl empty at the bottom (air pocket, expansion room). When folded thusly, its kinda a block shaped. Then I squeeze it on the sides to make it cylindrical, stubborn corners are pulled out and relocated to make it as round and bowl shaped as possible. Then the fit, try to insert into bowl. It should too big, scrape off the sides all around, maintaining the cylinder shape. Save detrius, its going to go on top as kindling. Repeat until the "plug" can be screwed into the bowl, loosely enough to enter without a fight, and just tight enough to not drop into the bowl (or out, if bowl is inverted). Level to just under the rim 1/8" or so. Sprinkle saved debris on top, flatten with finger. Take a test drag to ensure nothing fell into the airhole, and the airflow is happy. Thats it, light and enjoy! I never tamp with flakes, the balance is too delicate. It will burn till the cows come home (or Mr. Moo, which comes first), when it goes out, you've run out of baccy.


----------



## canadianpiper (Nov 27, 2010)

I just fold and stuffed some Ennerdale last nite and worked perfect stayed lit and lasted 2 hours, I did dry out the flake for half an hour prior to smoking. Perfect smoke and that being my first taste of Ennerdale I must say I cant wait to enjoy again tonite. Loved it.


----------



## yvesmary (Jan 28, 2011)

woops said:


> Used this method last night in a bowl of Stonehaven. Although it did ok, I had to constantly relight the tobacco (more than usual). I should've let the flake dry out a little before filling and smoking. I'm certain that my issue had more to due with moist tobacco than method.
> 
> I'll give it another shot down the road. Thanks, Jeff.


I've also had to constantly relight my Stonehaven. It is pretty moist so I guess it should be allowed to dry quite a bit to get the best out of it.

One thing I've found that helps after smoking a few minutes is to set the pipe aside for a couple of hours and then relight. It seems to burn better then.


----------



## bierundtabak (Nov 15, 2010)

I tried this method last night with Irish Flake and it was the best bowl of IF I've had yet. Until then I'd been rubbing it out because when I tried to stuff it it didn't really break apart. Rolling it like you showed helps with that.


----------



## Reverie Forest (Mar 31, 2009)

Thanks for that, Ron. As always, hearing the knowledge you've acquired from your experience is greatly appreciated. But a question for you regarding your method: do you manage different types of flakes (i.e. C&D vs SG) in the same manner you described?


----------



## RJpuffs (Jan 27, 2008)

Reverie Forest said:


> Thanks for that, Ron. As always, hearing the knowledge you've acquired from your experience is greatly appreciated. But a question for you regarding your method: do you manage different types of flakes (i.e. C&D vs SG) in the same manner you described?


I find Sammy G's flakes to be unfoldable. They are odd shapes to begin with, and they tend to leap out of the bowl at the first chance they get. FVF, St. James, et al, I just rip into a rough rubout and smoke thusly.

Most others behave flakefully. I also do the same thing with "broken" flake, such as GLP Fillmore and C&D Exhausted Rooster. Just have to gather sufficient broken chunks and squeeze/fold them into a cylinderical plug, works perfectly.


----------



## RJpuffs (Jan 27, 2008)

yvesmary said:


> ...
> One thing I've found that helps after smoking a few minutes is to set the pipe aside for a couple of hours and then relight. It seems to burn better then.


Try leaving it out overnight after a good light up. No, seriously. Its called DGT (Delayed Gratification Technique). Works best with straight Virginias and/or Burleys.


----------



## laloin (Jun 29, 2010)

I tried your method last night with some LTF and damm if I got a really great smoke. Thanks for your method Ron.
now shall I bomb you with some filmore ron heheheh ?

troy


----------



## RJpuffs (Jan 27, 2008)

laloin said:


> I tried your method last night with some LTF and damm if I got a really great smoke. Thanks for your method Ron.
> now shall I bomb you with some filmore ron heheheh ?
> 
> troy


Eeek! Broken flakes!

Personally I always rub out LTF. For some odd reason, I end up needing 1.something of a flake for my VA dedicated bowls, and I end up with so much detrius that I just rub it out. Good stuff, any way ya smoke it!


----------

