# Sharing my kitty-litter (and large humidor) experience



## pdisme

Just wanted to toss out a few things I've learned over the past few months with a 1200 count temp regulated humi and kitty litter (KL). I was going to add it to the KL thread but with 1500 replies it gains a new page every couple days so people who run into the same questions/issues may never see answers; I ended up finding new things in the thread several times as I would encounter one issue, go back and search the thread again, repeat.

Anyway, I'm in Florida and have a fairly large free standing humidor that is temp regulated (compressor-based) and can add humidity if you set it to, but can't decrease it. The problem I have had is getting the humidity down since opening the door allows the RH to increase when the moisture in the warmer air comdenses on the cooler surfaces in the humi; typically the humi is in the low 60F range and I keep the house about 76-78 F.

Right out of the box, I seasoned the humidor at a higher temp, as recommended by the manufacturer. A few weeks later when it would hold stable at 72 to 74% RH and 72F temp I dropped the temp down to the 62F range and set the RH at 63% (my initial goal). The temp dropped no problem, but RH stayed in the low to mid 70% range.

I found the KL thread while searching for alternatives to spending $140 on the recommended quantity of beads, bought some KL, threw it in a tupperware bowl and then into the humi. Hmm, not much change, still low 70%. Read some more of the KL thread and realize the KL can come pretty well saturated with enough moisture that it wont take more out of the air, but will still hold cat piss LOL, and of course it will still be willing to give off moisture if you're in a climate that needs to add humidity; for those cases, just give it a few sprays with distilled water and throw it in. Not too much water at a time, just a little, check the results, repeat.

How do you fix that? As I'm reading, I learn you can bake it to get the moisture out, or, leave it in the freezer for a while. So I try that; I take out what I had in there, bake it for an hour at 200 and put it back in the humi. Hey, what do you know, RH drops to 68%, now we're making progress. It wouldn't get below 68% though; I was using about a pound and didn't have any spare bowls sitting around to add more unless I started stealing kitchen dishes. I tried swapping it out every few days with new KL in an opened container I had been keeping in the freezer; no change.

Since then I've done a lot of experimentation with how much KL I need, what types to really get it to where I need it, how to extract collected moisture and I've finally got it stabilized at 61% to 64% with the range being parts of my humidor, not the KL letting it fluctuate that much. With a large humidor, it can be difficult to test things because changes you make can take half a day for the numbers to really stabilize, and you have to test the RH throughout the humi because it can vary, as I found. So, just try one, and only one, change at a time, and give it 12 to 24 hours. Also of course, if you're not using a calibrated hygrometer, your data is probably useless and you shouldn't put your sticks in.

So, what I've learned:

1) For remotely monitoring the humidity in your humidor, the Ambient Weather WS-0101 wireless weather station is great bargain at $14 and accurate because of the fact that it can be calibrated, which most remote monitors of this type cannot:

Ambient Weather WS-0101 Wireless Thermo-Hygrometer with Humidity Calibration

You get a base unit and one remote sender. Throw the remote sender in a bag with a 75% Boveda packet for 48 hours, set the base station to 75% and you're good to go. The only thing that kind of sucks is that since the calibration is done at the base unit, whenever the base unit's batteries need replacement, you're going to have to recalibrate all of your remote sensors (it supports up to three). However, you should be recalibrating once or twice per year anyway so just change the batteries at the same time even if its not dead; problem solved.

2) If you have a large humidor, especially one that involves electric fans, instead of the above, buy this kit for $39:

Ambient Weather WS-0101-COMBO-KIT Wireless Thermo-Hygrometer with Three Remote Sensors

It's the same thing with three remote sensors. In my humidor, I found that from bottom to middle to top, the RH ranges typically 3%, probably due to where the fans move more air or how they direct the air. This actually ended up being quite convenient since sticks I want to have slightly higher humidity I put in the middle section where it's consistently (but stable as well) higher.

With either option, it's nice to have the base unit on my desk so as I work during the day, I can see the temp and RH in all three sections of the humi without ever having to walk into that room and try to read off sensors.

3) What I've learned about KL. First, as others have asked in the KL thread, can you use something other than Exquisicat (or insert any other name)? Sure, just has to be silica-based and unscented/non-perfumed. And yes, if you're using one that has randomly colored pieces, those can stay in with no ill effects on your sticks, or if you're OCD you can pick them all out .

However, also as others have pointed out, some silica KL is better than others. The first bag I bought was this:










And honestly, it works fine. The Petsmart near me was about ten miles further than the store I got that bag at and when you're trying to get your humidor to do what you want, you want the KL 'right now' so I didn't feel like ordering it from Petsmart and waiting or driving further.

The first issue though, as others have mentioned, is that some of the less-optimal KL is much finer grained. That was the case with this stuff. It is a mess to pour because it throws up a small cloud of silica dust and if you keep it in media bags, as you move them, it will degrade further and more dust will be produced when you swap it out of the bags. Most importantly, it is not as effective as larger-granule silica KL. Here's what it looks like:










And here's what Exquisicat looks like:










The Exquisicat has much larger crystals and much less dust. I've found, over time, that the amount of time I can leave a particular amount in the humi before it needs to be dehydrated is longer with the exquisicat than the other stuff. I haven't scientifically analyzed this but possible reasons could be that the larger crystals create more space between the crystals, allowing more surface area to be exposed than the smaller crystals and the dust that clings to them, or maybe larger crystals can continue to absorb for longer periods of time versus smaller crystals, given the same volume container filled with either.

4 and 5) Baking versus freezing versus microwaving to dehydrate the KL, combined with how to package your KL for use in your humidor. I'm 100% pro-microwave at this point though, for reasons explained below.

It was impossible to split this into two parts because they're dependent on one another. The most popular way to package KL that I've seen on puff has been plastic bowl, set it in the humi. I've seen some use of media bags from aquariums. I've seen some people drill holes in plastic tubes and pour it in the tubes. I tried the bowl method first, and later on once I realized the quantity of KL I needed to make my humi stabilize where I wanted it, I started playing with other methods of packaging it. At the same time, I also learned via the KL thread that I needed to take humidity out of the KL to get it where I wanted it to be.

So here I am loading up pounds of KL in plastic bowls and baking it in the oven to get my RH where I wanted it to be. I'd have to re-bake every couple weeks when the RH started creeping up. Until I began baking it though, I was storing it in the freezer and that was ineffective so I personally don't think keeping it there is beneficial if you're in a high humidity environment; additionally, I later discovered that microwaving it, even after freezing for weeks, extracts a lot more water that freezing didn't. In general, I believe what happens is to go from freezer to media bag to humidor, even if just a few minutes, water condenses on that frozen KL so you're basically throwing it in the humi with the equivalent of a few spritzes of water already on it, which doesn't help if you're trying to remove humidity. Baking is better since it's warm and no water is going to condense on it before you get it in the humi since it will never get below room temp.

Okay, so now I have a routine that works, baked KL and bowls, stable RH. Now I'm wishing I didn't have to put so much KL in and didn't have to bake it as often; I want hands off operation for at least a long period of time. So I search the thread again, find mention of aquarium media bags. Hey, great idea, that would dramatically increase the exposed surface area of the KL compared to a plastic bowl. I start doing that. After a week, I had gotten the same stability out of half the KL that I was using in bowls. But the bags are a pain in the ass to fill and empty when I need to bake the KL since I'm not confident the bags would stand up to an hour in the oven; maybe they would be fine, just never tested it since I didn't want them to melt to the baking pan.

So now what, media bags let me take up less humi room than bowls, but I still have to dehydrate the KL too often, and with too much time taken. Search the thread again lol, now I find a post about microwaving it. Interesting, lets try that, and since microwaves are easier to clean than ovens, lets try microwaving it in the media bags. Works great! And wow, with only five minutes on high, the walls of the microwave are coated in water from the steam coming out of the KL, and the bags themselves are in slight puddles. So, next time, I set them on paper towel to absorb the water from the bottom and I do three minutes, air out the microwave, then two more. I wiped it out and did some more time but not much else came out. So I'm fairly confident that you can get most water out of the KL with five minutes on high.

Just out of curiosity, I threw a bunch of KL that had been in my freezer for four weeks in there and microwaved it; lots of water. This is why I don't think putting it in the freezer does much for you as far as eliminating humidity.

Well this works great, I can handle microwaving some media bags every couple weeks for five minutes but would still like to prolong the maintenance cycle. Oh, and since I'm complaining, its a pain filling those small media bags. I posted on the forum and someone else pointed me in the direction of these:

Aquarium Filtration & Filter Media: Drs. Foster & Smith Self-Fastening Media Bags

These are awesome, I bought the 6"x10" bag. They hold a good pound and a half of KL and have a velcro closure. Additionally, they're large enough that I can hold one up to the KL bucket and pour it in myself without having someone else help. With the larger ones, I was able to get the humi happy with just two of them instead of five or six of the smaller bags and after two weeks, my RH hasn't moved a point. I figure these things will be able to go three to four weeks between microwaving and that makes me happy. :cowboyic9:

So, if space is tight and you're using KL in bowls, try a media bag. If you're needing to remove humidity and dont like doing it as often as you currently have to, try larger media bags and microwaving it. Buy Exquisicat or another large-granule KL, not the dusty small stuff.


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## Oldmso54

Very thorough post Dave. I live in FL too (Orlando area) & I have much smaller coolers. I probably have about 3lbs (very rough estimate) of exquisicat crystals in my 64 QT cooler & it holds pretty steady at 65rh. I wonder if the "extra" amt of KL is what helps. I also put KL in my 100ct desktop - replaced the foam with KL in the container the humi came with & also put a small gel container tha I replaced the gel with KL - again, maybe overkill but it too holds pretty well at 65rh. So maybe more is better when it comes to KL?? :dunno:


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## Vwluv10338

Microwave....... awesome. That seems so much better than baking in the oven. I always hated baking the beads in my gun safe. I dont usually have to bake my KL because my winters here combined with the summers balances out the KL it seems. My gun safe has beads in a perforated metal container that has the color changing beads to indicate saturation.


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## pdisme

Oldmso54 said:


> Very thorough post Dave. I live in FL too (Orlando area) & I have much smaller coolers. I probably have about 3lbs (very rough estimate) of exquisicat crystals in my 64 QT cooler & it holds pretty steady at 65rh. I wonder if the "extra" amt of KL is what helps. I also put KL in my 100ct desktop - replaced the foam with KL in the container the humi came with & also put a small gel container tha I replaced the gel with KL - again, maybe overkill but it too holds pretty well at 65rh. So maybe more is better when it comes to KL?? :dunno:


I think part of my issue is the temp; since I keep it about 15F lower than room temp, in a humid environment, the more humidity I need to be able to absorb each time I open the door so if I get a stick out every three days or so, and it takes me a few minutes deciding what to smoke, the worse it gets. I found that if I put too much dry KL in, I can take the RH down into the 50's, so there was a 'too much' at least for me, but it took some experimentation to find the amount that keeps it really stable.



Vwluv10338 said:


> Microwave....... awesome. That seems so much better than baking in the oven. I always hated baking the beads in my gun safe. I dont usually have to bake my KL because my winters here combined with the summers balances out the KL it seems. My gun safe has beads in a perforated metal container that has the color changing beads to indicate saturation.


I've got something similar to that; white plastic that holds beads and plugs into the wall that came with my safe. They turn pink when saturated, then you plug it into the wall for six hours and it heats them until they turn blue. It's nice having the color reference but yeah, once a month in the microwave for five minutes and you can accomplish the same thing, if you remember to do it.


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## wahoofever

Damn good post. This should be pinned.

I have been looking at those Ambient setups thinking that I would put one in my humi, one in the babys room, and one outside. Is it possible to only calibrate one sending unit or once you set the base units RH is that how it reads all 3 sending units?


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## pdisme

wahoofever said:


> Damn good post. This should be pinned.
> 
> I have been looking at those Ambient setups thinking that I would put one in my humi, one in the babys room, and one outside. Is it possible to only calibrate one sending unit or once you set the base units RH is that how it reads all 3 sending units?


You can adjust the RH for all three of them independently on the base unit. Just keep in mind that the calibration is adjusting what the base unit shows you; this is important because the remote senders do have temp and RH readout on their faces but that is the value they think it is, not your calibrated value which only shows on the base unit. All three of mine were off 4% too high, but after calibration, they've kept right in line with two other hygrometers I've tested them against just to make sure they're accurate.


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## TonyBrooklyn

pdisme said:


> Just wanted to toss out a few things I've learned over the past few months with a 1200 count temp regulated humi and kitty litter (KL). I was going to add it to the KL thread but with 1500 replies it gains a new page every couple days so people who run into the same questions/issues may never see answers; I ended up finding new things in the thread several times as I would encounter one issue, go back and search the thread again, repeat.
> 
> Anyway, I'm in Florida and have a fairly large free standing humidor that is temp regulated (compressor-based) and can add humidity if you set it to, but can't decrease it. The problem I have had is getting the humidity down since opening the door allows the RH to increase when the moisture in the warmer air comdenses on the cooler surfaces in the humi; typically the humi is in the low 60F range and I keep the house about 76-78 F.
> 
> Right out of the box, I seasoned the humidor at a higher temp, as recommended by the manufacturer. A few weeks later when it would hold stable at 72 to 74% RH and 72F temp I dropped the temp down to the 62F range and set the RH at 63% (my initial goal). The temp dropped no problem, but RH stayed in the low to mid 70% range.
> 
> I found the KL thread while searching for alternatives to spending $140 on the recommended quantity of beads, bought some KL, threw it in a tupperware bowl and then into the humi. Hmm, not much change, still low 70%. Read some more of the KL thread and realize the KL can come pretty well saturated with enough moisture that it wont take more out of the air, but will still hold cat piss LOL, and of course it will still be willing to give off moisture if you're in a climate that needs to add humidity; for those cases, just give it a few sprays with distilled water and throw it in. Not too much water at a time, just a little, check the results, repeat.
> 
> How do you fix that? As I'm reading, I learn you can bake it to get the moisture out, or, leave it in the freezer for a while. So I try that; I take out what I had in there, bake it for an hour at 200 and put it back in the humi. Hey, what do you know, RH drops to 68%, now we're making progress. It wouldn't get below 68% though; I was using about a pound and didn't have any spare bowls sitting around to add more unless I started stealing kitchen dishes. I tried swapping it out every few days with new KL in an opened container I had been keeping in the freezer; no change.
> 
> Since then I've done a lot of experimentation with how much KL I need, what types to really get it to where I need it, how to extract collected moisture and I've finally got it stabilized at 61% to 64% with the range being parts of my humidor, not the KL letting it fluctuate that much. With a large humidor, it can be difficult to test things because changes you make can take half a day for the numbers to really stabilize, and you have to test the RH throughout the humi because it can vary, as I found. So, just try one, and only one, change at a time, and give it 12 to 24 hours. Also of course, if you're not using a calibrated hygrometer, your data is probably useless and you shouldn't put your sticks in.
> 
> So, what I've learned:
> 
> 1) For remotely monitoring the humidity in your humidor, the Ambient Weather WS-0101 wireless weather station is great bargain at $14 and accurate because of the fact that it can be calibrated, which most remote monitors of this type cannot:
> 
> Ambient Weather WS-0101 Wireless Thermo-Hygrometer with Humidity Calibration
> 
> You get a base unit and one remote sender. Throw the remote sender in a bag with a 75% Boveda packet for 48 hours, set the base station to 75% and you're good to go. The only thing that kind of sucks is that since the calibration is done at the base unit, whenever the base unit's batteries need replacement, you're going to have to recalibrate all of your remote sensors (it supports up to three). However, you should be recalibrating once or twice per year anyway so just change the batteries at the same time even if its not dead; problem solved.
> 
> 2) If you have a large humidor, especially one that involves electric fans, instead of the above, buy this kit for $39:
> 
> Ambient Weather WS-0101-COMBO-KIT Wireless Thermo-Hygrometer with Three Remote Sensors
> 
> It's the same thing with three remote sensors. In my humidor, I found that from bottom to middle to top, the RH ranges typically 3%, probably due to where the fans move more air or how they direct the air. This actually ended up being quite convenient since sticks I want to have slightly higher humidity I put in the middle section where it's consistently (but stable as well) higher.
> 
> With either option, it's nice to have the base unit on my desk so as I work during the day, I can see the temp and RH in all three sections of the humi without ever having to walk into that room and try to read off sensors.
> 
> 3) What I've learned about KL. First, as others have asked in the KL thread, can you use something other than Exquisicat (or insert any other name)? Sure, just has to be silica-based and unscented/non-perfumed. And yes, if you're using one that has randomly colored pieces, those can stay in with no ill effects on your sticks, or if you're OCD you can pick them all out .
> 
> However, also as others have pointed out, some silica KL is better than others. The first bag I bought was this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And honestly, it works fine. The Petsmart near me was about ten miles further than the store I got that bag at and when you're trying to get your humidor to do what you want, you want the KL 'right now' so I didn't feel like ordering it from Petsmart and waiting or driving further.
> 
> The first issue though, as others have mentioned, is that some of the less-optimal KL is much finer grained. That was the case with this stuff. It is a mess to pour because it throws up a small cloud of silica dust and if you keep it in media bags, as you move them, it will degrade further and more dust will be produced when you swap it out of the bags. Most importantly, it is not as effective as larger-granule silica KL. Here's what it looks like:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And here's what Exquisicat looks like:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Exquisicat has much larger crystals and much less dust. I've found, over time, that the amount of time I can leave a particular amount in the humi before it needs to be dehydrated is longer with the exquisicat than the other stuff. I haven't scientifically analyzed this but possible reasons could be that the larger crystals create more space between the crystals, allowing more surface area to be exposed than the smaller crystals and the dust that clings to them, or maybe larger crystals can continue to absorb for longer periods of time versus smaller crystals, given the same volume container filled with either.
> 
> 4 and 5) Baking versus freezing versus microwaving to dehydrate the KL, combined with how to package your KL for use in your humidor. I'm 100% pro-microwave at this point though, for reasons explained below.
> 
> It was impossible to split this into two parts because they're dependent on one another. The most popular way to package KL that I've seen on puff has been plastic bowl, set it in the humi. I've seen some use of media bags from aquariums. I've seen some people drill holes in plastic tubes and pour it in the tubes. I tried the bowl method first, and later on once I realized the quantity of KL I needed to make my humi stabilize where I wanted it, I started playing with other methods of packaging it. At the same time, I also learned via the KL thread that I needed to take humidity out of the KL to get it where I wanted it to be.
> 
> So here I am loading up pounds of KL in plastic bowls and baking it in the oven to get my RH where I wanted it to be. I'd have to re-bake every couple weeks when the RH started creeping up. Until I began baking it though, I was storing it in the freezer and that was ineffective so I personally don't think keeping it there is beneficial if you're in a high humidity environment; additionally, I later discovered that microwaving it, even after freezing for weeks, extracts a lot more water that freezing didn't. In general, I believe what happens is to go from freezer to media bag to humidor, even if just a few minutes, water condenses on that frozen KL so you're basically throwing it in the humi with the equivalent of a few spritzes of water already on it, which doesn't help if you're trying to remove humidity. Baking is better since it's warm and no water is going to condense on it before you get it in the humi since it will never get below room temp.
> 
> Okay, so now I have a routine that works, baked KL and bowls, stable RH. Now I'm wishing I didn't have to put so much KL in and didn't have to bake it as often; I want hands off operation for at least a long period of time. So I search the thread again, find mention of aquarium media bags. Hey, great idea, that would dramatically increase the exposed surface area of the KL compared to a plastic bowl. I start doing that. After a week, I had gotten the same stability out of half the KL that I was using in bowls. But the bags are a pain in the ass to fill and empty when I need to bake the KL since I'm not confident the bags would stand up to an hour in the oven; maybe they would be fine, just never tested it since I didn't want them to melt to the baking pan.
> 
> So now what, media bags let me take up less humi room than bowls, but I still have to dehydrate the KL too often, and with too much time taken. Search the thread again lol, now I find a post about microwaving it. Interesting, lets try that, and since microwaves are easier to clean than ovens, lets try microwaving it in the media bags. Works great! And wow, with only five minutes on high, the walls of the microwave are coated in water from the steam coming out of the KL, and the bags themselves are in slight puddles. So, next time, I set them on paper towel to absorb the water from the bottom and I do three minutes, air out the microwave, then two more. I wiped it out and did some more time but not much else came out. So I'm fairly confident that you can get most water out of the KL with five minutes on high.
> 
> Just out of curiosity, I threw a bunch of KL that had been in my freezer for four weeks in there and microwaved it; lots of water. This is why I don't think putting it in the freezer does much for you as far as eliminating humidity.
> 
> Well this works great, I can handle microwaving some media bags every couple weeks for five minutes but would still like to prolong the maintenance cycle. Oh, and since I'm complaining, its a pain filling those small media bags. I posted on the forum and someone else pointed me in the direction of these:
> 
> Aquarium Filtration & Filter Media: Drs. Foster & Smith Self-Fastening Media Bags
> 
> These are awesome, I bought the 6"x10" bag. They hold a good pound and a half of KL and have a velcro closure. Additionally, they're large enough that I can hold one up to the KL bucket and pour it in myself without having someone else help. With the larger ones, I was able to get the humi happy with just two of them instead of five or six of the smaller bags and after two weeks, my RH hasn't moved a point. I figure these things will be able to go three to four weeks between microwaving and that makes me happy. :cowboyic9:
> 
> So, if space is tight and you're using KL in bowls, try a media bag. If you're needing to remove humidity and dont like doing it as often as you currently have to, try larger media bags and microwaving it. Buy Exquisicat or another large-granule KL, not the dusty small stuff.


Wow great Post thank you ! You should post it in the kitty Litter set up thread so all may benefit as well! Great job R/G for you sir!!!!!!!!!

:bump2::bump2::bump2::bump2::bump2:


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## Swany

Great job and thanks for taking the time to post this. Rg added as well.


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## HIM

Though its old now this is still an awesome thread. Thanks for doing all the legwork Dave, very helpful!!!


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## pdisme

HIM said:


> Though its old now this is still an awesome thread. Thanks for doing all the legwork Dave, very helpful!!!


Not a problem, glad it was helpful. I'm happy to report the humi is still working fine, albeit with the help of the kitty litter. Here in Florida I have to microwave it about every three to four weeks to keep things nice and happy between 62% and 65% depending on where the shelves are.


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## HIM

I can handle dealing with that. Well worth the 5 minutes of my time.


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## Bondo 440

wahoofever said:


> Damn good post. This should be pinned.


Request as well. Pin it and lock it.


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## jhedrick83

Agreed, I used it as a guide for what I am doing in my Cabinet build.



Bondo 440 said:


> Request as well. Pin it and lock it.


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## pdisme

Long term update on this. My recommendation is to swap out the Exquisicat (I still recommend that brand due to the size of the crystals) every six to nine months. There was a noticeable drop off in moisture absorption ability in that time range that I didn't immediately notice. I had set myself a Google Calendar notice that would email me monthly to microwave the KL lol, but I started to notice that my humidity in the humi was going higher each time I'd get to the reminder, and this was as Florida was entering the 'cold' months when humidity drops a bit. I started swapping it out at six month intervals and that restored the previous predictable performance.

A side effect of swapping it out more frequently is you get less dust coming from the KL when you move it around. People keeping it in bowls won't have this issue but if you use the aquarium media bags like me to increase the surface area, just getting the bags to microwave and back always moves the KL around a bit and it grinds on itself so you get dust. I just put a paper towel under it in the humi so it doesn't sprinkle through onto any stogies.


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## Cigar5150

pdisme said:


> Long term update on this. My recommendation is to swap out the Exquisicat (I still recommend that brand due to the size of the crystals) every six to nine months. There was a noticeable drop off in moisture absorption ability in that time range that I didn't immediately notice. I had set myself a Google Calendar notice that would email me monthly to microwave the KL lol, but I started to notice that my humidity in the humi was going higher each time I'd get to the reminder, and this was as Florida was entering the 'cold' months when humidity drops a bit. I started swapping it out at six month intervals and that restored the previous predictable performance.
> 
> A side effect of swapping it out more frequently is you get less dust coming from the KL when you move it around. People keeping it in bowls won't have this issue but if you use the aquarium media bags like me to increase the surface area, just getting the bags to microwave and back always moves the KL around a bit and it grinds on itself so you get dust. I just put a paper towel under it in the humi so it doesn't sprinkle through onto any stogies.


Great post and thanks for the update. Thinking of moving from the Cali desert to Florida in the next couple years and if I do it's going to be a shock to the system.


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## Dual-500

As others have mentioned, thanks for taking the time to post this up. I've been using KL at the suggestion of an online friend for just under two years now. My first KL setup was inside a 28 bottle Avanti thermoelectric wine cooler. I used a bread loaf baking pan filled up flush to the top and it worked great at 64 degrees, kept things at 67% RH year round. I live in Fort Worth, TX and with the cooler at 64 F the KL needed servicing only about 3 times a year. The Avanti cooler quit working a week ago, now I'm setting up a 36 bottle Igloo freon based beverage cooler. My plan is to increase the amount of KL in this rig. Will at least double and may go to 3 bread loaf pans if they will fit in the bottom of the cooler under the 7 drawer humidor that will reside within it.

Ultra Pearl kittly litter is the brand I have been using. Pre-wash it in the kitchen sink using filtered drinking water and a screen strainer. Then dry it in the oven for a couple of hours at 170 F. When it's time to spritz and add moisture I dump the bread pan into a large stainless steel bowl, and hit it with a spray bottle, tossing like a salad. Then pour it back into the bread pan and back into the cooler.


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## GeauxTigers

Nice Bump. I have been using kitty litter in my new wineador. I am at the opposite side of ambient rh. In the mountains, it is cold and dry. rh was 35% this morning.

My RH in my wineador is pretty much locked in at 64-65%. Would like to get it to drop a few notches, but for the winter storage while I am not smoking too many, it is fine. I am really happy with the KL. Thanks to all who wrote about it and convinced me.


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## BoogieEngineer

So it's true that KL can emit vapor as well as absorb it? I've been hesitating to try because I thought it only can absorb moisture.


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## gunnermcgee

BoogieEngineer said:


> So it's true that KL can emit vapor as well as absorb it? I've been hesitating to try because I thought it only can absorb moisture.


Yes, it is a 2 way media. You should note that it can come a little wet, so it may need some time in the oven to dry it out, depending on your needs.


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## BoogieEngineer

gunnermcgee said:


> Yes, it is a 2 way media. You should note that it can come a little wet, so it may need some time in the oven to dry it out, depending on your needs.


Cool thanks for the info! I'm having enough beads supply for all storage devices right now but KL will be here next time I expand the stash.


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## GeauxTigers

BoogieEngineer said:


> Cool thanks for the info! I'm having enough beads supply for all storage devices right now but KL will be here next time I expand the stash.


Yeah - the price difference is crazy. And from everything I have read, it is the same basic stuff...


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## Encom

Thank you for enlightening me with your experience on kitty litter! No more need to go testing the freezer method.


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## DLtoker

Why aren't things like this stickied? Or is there a directory of rock star posts like this that I'm missing? Good stuff, regardless!


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## Dual-500

DLtoker said:


> Why aren't things like this stickied? Or is there a directory of rock star posts like this that I'm missing? Good stuff, regardless!


Dunno. Yeah it's good stuff for sure. My setup has been stage 2 Wineador for just about a year. Two years on first setup with an Avanti thermoelectric cooler and the past year with a custom Igloo freon based unit. So, for me it's been 2 1/2 years of Kitty Litter after 6 months of active humidification using Hydra SM's. I switched to KL from the Hydra's after the first Hydra failed and never looked back. So much less maintenance and hassle using two bread loaf pans of KL. I add moisture 3 or 4 times a year and that takes about 10 minutes. Circulation fans are quiet - the Hyrda fan was noisy.

Once things are setup and working, it then becomes all about the smokes!


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## gtechva

There are numerous threads that wound up being KL vs beads. You would think people were talking about each others mom.


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## Dano87

This is ridiculous. If you're going to invest in such a quantity of cigars and a massive 1200 cap humidor, why wouldn't you invest in a proper humidification device? That's like buying a $100,000.00 car and slapping primewells on it and putting walmart brand spark plugs in the engine.


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## Bird-Dog

Dano87 said:


> This is ridiculous. If you're going to invest in such a quantity of cigars and a massive 1200 cap humidor, why wouldn't you invest in a proper humidification device? That's like buying a $100,000.00 car and slapping primewells on it and putting walmart brand spark plugs in the engine.


Make sure you understand the subject matter before passing judgement.

KL is made of silica. HF beads are made of silica. The biggest difference is that HF developed a process to produce silica beads with differing Rh properties. IIRC, KL typically runs at 67-68 Rh. HF can be purchased in a variety of Rh levels (as can Boveda packs).

Personally, I use HF on the positive side, moistened for adding humidity (as well as taking it away). I also include some dry KL in my wineador to ensure that any excess humidity can be controlled when the HF's absorption ability is maxed out. But then, living in an area that tends to be very humid during many parts of the year, I generally have more trouble keeping Rh down than up.

Nevertheless, there are lots of Puffers who use KL exclusively with excellent results and have done so for years! And besides, aren't you the same guy who was worried about over humidifying your cigars, but unwilling to invest in either a hygrometer or Boveda packs?


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## Dual-500

Dano87 said:


> This is ridiculous. If you're going to invest in such a quantity of cigars and a massive 1200 cap humidor, why wouldn't you invest in a proper humidification device? That's like buying a $100,000.00 car and slapping primewells on it and putting walmart brand spark plugs in the engine.


KL works great and was suggested to me by an old pro at this. I was skeptical at first. Had one of the Hydra's fail at the time that I was using. I posted about that and he suggested trying KL, as that is what he had been using for years. Took me a month or two to get it figured out and I've never looked back. Now I just pull the bread pans of KL out of Wineador when RH drops below 65%, which ends up being 3 to 5 times a year. Pour the KL into a large stainless steel bowl and wet with a spray bottle of distilled water while mixing it around. For me, it's been the most reliable and lowest maintenance method and I have used several methods including active electronic stuff. I wouldn't mess with anything else anymore. I have a stash worth ~$2.5K in the Wineador. I also use a Freon Cooled unit which can be a nightmare to cigars if not setup correctly. The first Wineador I setup was a thermoelectric type and only lasted two years - the cooling pelletier quit working. Based upon the recommendation of a longtime pal that does maintenance in a university medical center environment, I switched over to a Freon/Compressor based setup for longevity.

Been using KL for almost 4 years now - there's a build thread on it if you are interested.


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