# When is a Cuban not a Cuban?



## God (May 5, 2004)

I understand the government shops but technically wouldn't any cigar made in Cuba be considered a Cuban... perhaps a shoddy made, horrible cigar... but a Cuban non the less...

If labeled ilegally with a brand name it would be considered a counterfeit but you couldn't really call it a "fake" Cuban.

Hmmmmmmmm......


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## IHT (Dec 27, 2003)

i thought this was going to be a joke or riddle.


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## DaveC (Sep 4, 2003)

Great Post


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## coppertop (Dec 29, 2003)

God said:


> I understand the government shops but technically wouldn't any cigar made in Cuba be considered a Cuban... perhaps a shoddy made, horrible cigar... but a Cuban non the less...
> 
> If labeled ilegally with a brand name it would be considered a counterfeit but you couldn't really call it a "fake" Cuban.
> 
> Hmmmmmmmm......


You would think that if it was made in Cuba it would be considered a Cuban cigar.

:z


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## Cigar Chic (Feb 19, 2004)

The "fake" cuban cigar is in reference to the fact that it is not authentic. It was not made by the actual cigar manufacturer. Call it counterfit, call it fake.......I just know that I want one that is NOT fake or counterfit.


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## God (May 5, 2004)

Cigar Chic said:


> The "fake" cuban cigar is in reference to the fact that it is not authentic. It was not made by the actual cigar manufacturer. Call it counterfit, call it fake.......I just know that I want one that is NOT fake or counterfit.


But that's my point.... the fact that it is made in Cuba would make it an authentic Cuban however not an authentic (insert brand name here)... counterfeit yes... fake Cuban no


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## IHT (Dec 27, 2003)

what is the point of this topic? someone CLEARLY define it for me.


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## relaxnsmoke (Mar 24, 2003)

IHT said:


> what is the point of this topic? someone CLEARLY define it for me.


 I think I've got it. Let's say your Pamela Anderson, not everything Pamela Anderson is Pamela Anderson. Am I on the right track? :al


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## poker (Dec 11, 1997)

What cracks me up is that a fake cuban cigar needs to be defined :r


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## Lost Sailor (May 2, 2003)

poker said:


> What cracks me up is that a fake cuban cigar needs to be defined :r


Exactamundo!!


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## c2000 (Oct 16, 2003)

I'm confused.................


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## IHT (Dec 27, 2003)

Lost Sailor said:


> Exactamundo!!


hey, i had some of those "excactamundo" montes... y'know, the new release...


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## coppertop (Dec 29, 2003)

relaxnsmoke said:


> I think I've got it. Let's say your Pamela Anderson, not everything Pamela Anderson is Pamela Anderson. Am I on the right track? :al


 :r MAO at Dave and Poker

Hey I have some of those new "exactamundos" on the way 

:z


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## Lost Sailor (May 2, 2003)

You better let 'em sit a while...they won't be ready for a bit..


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## coppertop (Dec 29, 2003)

I plan on smoking one when I get them. Then I'll let the others sit for a while.

I have read mixed reviews on there taste, so I am interested in tasting them for myself


:z


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## SilvrBck (Sep 8, 2003)

poker said:


> What cracks me up is that a fake cuban cigar needs to be defined :r


These pics from you, Poker, pretty much nail the definition on the head. This cigar was purchased in Cuba.

Cuban Dog Turd

sb


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## Deem (Jan 1, 2000)

coppertop said:


> I plan on smoking one when I get them. Then I'll let the others sit for a while.
> 
> I have read mixed reviews on there taste, so I am interested in tasting them for myself
> 
> :z


Yes they have *mildly*  mixed reviews for the most part. Waiting to smoke my first one till next week.

To clear things up abit on the original topic........
I would say a Robaina farm rolled is a Cuban.....if it's the real thing


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## SFCEd (Jun 19, 2004)

God said:


> But that's my point.... the fact that it is made in Cuba would make it an authentic Cuban however not an authentic (insert brand name here)... counterfeit yes... fake Cuban no


"Hell is like heaven... without cigars" _AMEN!_


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## MoTheMan (May 24, 2003)

Thought I'd add something here.

This is a true story. Happened in my office just yesterday.

Was talking to this gentlemen who's a world traveller (works in politics). He was telling me that he was planning a trip to Cuba sometime in October but then he's starting to worry because of newer Bush sponsored legislation about travel & trade with Cuba. Seems he goes to Cuba about twice a year -- he has friends that live there. So we got to talking about cigars when this gentleman goes on to tell me that he often picks up 3 to 4 boxes of Cubans that he gets off the street at a cost of about $25 a box (!!!) and is able to bring them in with him and then sell them for between $250 and $300 per box, mostly to offest the cost of his trip. To him, these cigars are real Cuban and probably no different from factory made ones. He asked me if I'd like him to pick up a box for me on his nex trip but I told him that I'd prefer to pay a little more & purchase one made & sanctioned from a factory in order to guarantee the authenticity of it. He didn't seem to mind

Well, here's what I have to say about all this.

1) I really couldn't believe this guy was that blatant or that he's actually able to sell these cigars that easily.

2) I couldn't believe that to him, the street counterfeits were considered the equivalent of factory ones!!

3) Yes, these are what I'd call fake Cubans because they are not genuine, sanctioned factory products.

4) Now this doc really don't know me too well, do he?! [Hee, hee]

MoTheMan


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## Lost Sailor (May 2, 2003)

About all I can say about that is I hope the POS get's busted!  He dserves it!!


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## Diselfitter (May 20, 2006)

Well it is really a matter of Semantics. 

If your definition is any cigar that is produced in Cuba, as a Cuban cigar well technically you would be right. 

But the rest of the world, to include Cuba understand the definition to mean a cigar that is Authorized by the Cuban Government, Altadis and Habanos SA. 

Not farmed rolled, not tobacco that was swept up at the end of the day and made into a cigar. 

It is a term to indicate the best of the best. 

I am sure there are exceptions to this like Custom rolled cigars by torcedors like Taboda, LaChina, Hamlet Mr Robaina. 

I have seen Vendors try to use a looser definition to call their cigars Cuban cigars, When in fact.. The tobacco that was purchased was the same grade of tobacco that is used in Dry cigar that are sold else where in the world. 
The Cigars were not Authorized by Altadis, or Habanos SA. Technically they were correct in saying they were Cuban Cigars, But I am sure it was an Advertising gimmick to lure people to believe that what they were getting was of the same quality as the cigars that are renowned world wide. Maybe for a little cheaper, Maybe for less hassle than having to deal with the embargo issue. 
The Same can be said for Cuban Street Cigars as well, Just because it comes in the same box, and has bands on it doesn't make it so, you better have a receipt of purchase, otherwise it will be confiscated by the Cuban government. 

So for me when I say Cuban Cigar, I mean a cigar that was government approved, and made under the guidelines and standards of Habanos SA, and Altadis. 

I would like to see Cuba adopt a similar method of classification as France has done with wine. Maybe it is too complex an idea to impliment... I dunno.. It just came to me, so I didn't really give it much thought.. LOL 

Anyway I wanted to give a little more detailed discription and answer to your question, one as how I understand it. 

Deez


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## dayplanner (Dec 11, 1997)

relaxnsmoke said:


> I think I've got it. Let's say your Pamela Anderson, not everything Pamela Anderson is Pamela Anderson. Am I on the right track?


 Nice triple cap...but I don't think those are real. :r


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## illuminatus (Oct 20, 2005)

holy 2 year old thread resurrection, batman!


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## bonggoy (Mar 9, 2006)

SilvrBck said:


> These pics from you, Poker, pretty much nail the definition on the head. This cigar was purchased in Cuba.
> 
> Cuban Dog Turd
> 
> sb


Forget the cigars, did you see the two black beauties in there. I wanna ride those babies till they start screaming.


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## cfheater (Jan 14, 2006)

OK so if the Opus X and other high priced cigars are not made by the real manufacturer wouldn't they be fake? So if some Cuban makes one in his dumpy little shack isn't it fake? Nuff' said.


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## illuminatus (Oct 20, 2005)

cfheater said:


> OK so if the Opus X and other high priced cigars are not made by the real manufacturer wouldn't they be fake? So if some Cuban makes one in his dumpy little shack isn't it fake? Nuff' said.


I'm not sure I understand what you mean by "Opux X and other high priced cigars are not made by the real manufacturer".... Opus X is made by Fuente, in the DR...


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## floydp (Jun 6, 2004)

Which ones are the ISOM's? The fakes or the factory authorized ones? 

Signed Cornfused


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## dayplanner (Dec 11, 1997)

floydp said:


> Signed Cornfused


 I'm confused, too. Which one of these is the fake Cuban???


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## Diselfitter (May 20, 2006)

LOL.. you guys are funny. 

I guess... The real point is this. If I said I wanted to send out a bunch of Cuban cigars to anyone here. 
That person would have in their mind I was sending out cigars that were Listed in Habanos SA/Altadis. IE montecristo, Cohiba, Partagas, etc. 
I don't think anyone would be thinking they would be receiving Street cigars, Cigars made made in the Netherlands with Cuban tobacco, or cigars made in the Canary Islands with Cuban tobacco, or Some company that has claimed they are made with Pre-embargo Cuban tobacco. 

I guess if you were being pedantic about it they all would qualify as Cuban cigars. 

But if you used what is known to be the common definition of Cuban cigars, you would expect and be thinking of habanos......and rightfully so, as that would be the current definition. 
Because that is what they are most known for. 

Deez


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## dayplanner (Dec 11, 1997)

Diselfitter said:


> LOL.. you guys are funny.
> 
> I guess... The real point is this. If I said I wanted to send out a bunch of Cuban cigars to anyone here.
> That person would have in their mind I was sending out cigars that were Listed in Habanos SA/Altadis. IE montecristo, Cohiba, Partagas, etc.
> ...


 Yep. Technically, you could have a fake cohiba that was still a cuban cigar. It's academic, though. Fake is the operative word -- in that someone is getting something that was represented as something else.


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## cfheater (Jan 14, 2006)

illuminatus said:


> I'm not sure I understand what you mean by "Opux X and other high priced cigars are not made by the real manufacturer".... Opus X is made by Fuente, in the DR...


What I mean is if Opus X are being made with scraps of tobacco by someone other than Fuente they are fakes. If some Cuban in his shack on the island makes a few Cohiba's they are fake also. The only cuban cigar that is made on the Island of Cuba that is real is what is authrized by Habanos. Everything else without question is a fake. Period.


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## aphexacid (May 3, 2006)

very bizarre. i think i just entered a parallel dimension after reading this...

To be or not to be....


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## floydp (Jun 6, 2004)

Submitted for your approval, there is a fine between whats real and what is perceived to be real. Example 1: a cigar with Habanos/SA on the box. Example 2: A very friendly fellow missing most of his teeth assuring you, jess senor dis is real habano, you can trust me, you have my word as to its authenticity. I submit this dilemma to you bastages. Welcome to the ISOM zone.


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## Diselfitter (May 20, 2006)

LMAO..... Oh the Mystique of Cuban Cigars, Shrouded with legend, myth, and contraversy... Ya gotta love it.


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## icehog3 (Feb 20, 2005)

My butt itches.


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## MoTheMan (May 24, 2003)

Then, there are:

1) Black Market Cigars. Real cigars, made from real cuban tobacco, usually long filler, made in Cuba, made by a certified roller, using a factory blend, but just not made at the factory. These can be found all around both in cuba & outside, but quality may vary. I've tasted some really good ones & some crappy ones. Be suspicious of your source.
2) Custom rolled cigars. An example are the Taboadas. If you've smoked what Taboada rolls then you'll agree that they are the genuine thing, and very good at that. These are genuine, you just can't get them in any store anywhere in Cuba. This is a real Cuban, but considered a custom rolled
3) Total counterfeits. These can be made in Cuba, but usually contain at least some short filler or tobacco scraps. They may also contain non-tobacco filler (paper, banana leaf, seriously, no kidding, even other type of leaves). Ones made outside of Cuba will sometimes contain ony a couple of Cuban leaves, but some may have no leaves at all.

[I recently had a Mexican cello wrapped Cohiba Pyramid that wasn't a bad smoke. Mixed filler to boot. Would smoke it again, but wouldn't pay more than $1 for it. Figure if some counterfeiter is willing to go to the trouble of making fakes and I'm willing to smoke the good ones, I definately want to take his profit motive away.]


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## floydp (Jun 6, 2004)

icehog3 said:


> My butt itches.


Mine too, but then again it always does.


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## Teninx (Apr 23, 2006)

And to further muddy the waters, there are always those cigars rolled in Costa Rica made from tobacco grown from cuban legacy seed that marketed as legal cuban cigars....:r


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## dayplanner (Dec 11, 1997)

icehog3 said:


> My butt itches.


A little soap and water'll take care of that.


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## dayplanner (Dec 11, 1997)

Make sure it's distilled or you could get moldy butt.


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## MoTheMan (May 24, 2003)

Teninx said:


> And to further muddy the waters, there are always those cigars rolled in Costa Rica made from tobacco grown from cuban legacy seed that marketed as legal cuban cigars....:r


Yeah! What a rip off.

. . . On the other hand, looks like the butt scratchers have hijacked this thread!:r

Scratch . . . sniff . . .scratch . . .sniff . . .make sure you're getting it right!!


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## StudentSmoker (Apr 24, 2006)

If a tree falls in the forest and no one is there to hear it does it make a sound?


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## Diselfitter (May 20, 2006)

Well Yes it does make a sound. I took a tape recorder, in the forrest and set next to a tree and rigged it so that when I left, it would fall, I came back an hour later, and played back the tape, wouldn't you know it actually did make a sound..... Because on the tape I heard... Tttttiiiiimmmmbbbbeeerrrr!!!!!!. and then Ka thunk, snap snap brussel brussel, and squish.....Not sure what the squish was and I wasn't about to look. 

Deez


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## StudentSmoker (Apr 24, 2006)

Diselfitter said:


> Well Yes it does make a sound. I took a tape recorder, in the forrest and set next to a tree and rigged it so that when I left, it would fall, I came back an hour later, and played back the tape, wouldn't you know it actually did make a sound..... Because on the tape I heard... Tttttiiiiimmmmbbbbeeerrrr!!!!!!. and then Ka thunk, snap snap brussel brussel, and squish.....Not sure what the squish was and I wasn't about to look.
> 
> Deez


Damnit Deez...I was trying to be funny and you had to throw a bunch of edjumicated mumbo jumbo in there. :fu :r


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## Diselfitter (May 20, 2006)

LMAO......:r


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## Corona Gigante-cl (Sep 8, 2005)

Diselfitter said:


> Well Yes it does make a sound. I took a tape recorder, in the forrest and set next to a tree and rigged it so that when I left, it would fall, I came back an hour later, and played back the tape, wouldn't you know it actually did make a sound..... Because on the tape I heard... Tttttiiiiimmmmbbbbeeerrrr!!!!!!. and then Ka thunk, snap snap brussel brussel, and squish.....Not sure what the squish was and I wasn't about to look.
> 
> Deez


The squish was probably the sound of Schrödinger's cat getting squashed.


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## Cigar Hound (Feb 8, 2006)

StudentSmoker said:


> If a tree falls in the forest and no one is there to hear it does it make a sound?


That depends, is it a _fake cuban tree_ or a _real cuban tree?_


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