# Squeaky Wheel gets...removed



## PJD (Aug 15, 2009)

So, this morning I pulled the trigger on a box of Monte 4s from the large vendor that most of us use (well, based on PMs at any rate).

From this same vendor, back in December last year, I'd ordered a box of Monte 2s, three of which were fairly heavily damaged. I said nothing at the time. Then, from the same vendor, one tubo Siglo VI was also received badly damaged (as in a split about 1.5" long, vertically, just below the band). I mentioned both incidents to one of the owners via e-mail and he politely said to remind him of this on my next order and there would be a credit issued.

So, this morning I sent him a very nicely worded e-mail (with the full conversation included) asking for the proferred credit to be applied to my Monte 4 purchase. Instead, the order was canceled and I was told that they no longer want my business since there was "too much damage in the past." They DID agree to refund the price of the _petaca _of Siglo VIs, but that's small consolation, as I'm now stuck with no access to the best prices available anywhere. Most other vendors are easily 20% higher (or more), and the next-cheapest one has recently shipped moldy sticks to some BOTLs here on this forum.

I can't stress highly enough that the tone of my e-mail exchange was always exceedingly polite and that I understood it was the postal system's fault, not his company's.

So the question for all of us now becomes "is it better to just take your lumps with damaged sticks or risk being blacklisted by a vendor." This seems to be lose-lose all the way around.


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## Magnate (Nov 27, 2009)

YOUCH!! That sucks bro... 

I wonder if you contacted them back and said you'd be willing to insure future purchases, since you know it isn't their fault, if they'd be willing to work with you...


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## salmonfly (Nov 11, 2009)

Three words comes to mind Peter, NAME AND SHAME!


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## PJD (Aug 15, 2009)

salmonfly said:


> Three words comes to mind Peter, NAME AND SHAME!


Much as I'd love to, I obviously can't do so publicly, but it's the number one vendor, alas, and the one with the best prices. That should narrow it down. I'll PM you if you need clarification.

The refund from the earlier damage will pay the difference in the Monte 4 order I will now have to place with another vendor, but beyond that, all the other good stuff I was looking at just got considerably more expensive. The Boli RCs and Trinidads are on hold now.


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## PJD (Aug 15, 2009)

Magnate said:


> YOUCH!! That sucks bro...
> 
> I wonder if you contacted them back and said you'd be willing to insure future purchases, since you know it isn't their fault, if they'd be willing to work with you...


I didn't go that far, because frankly I'm not willing to assume a multi-hundred-dollar loss should a shipment go astray or get jumped up-and-down on by PostalCritters™.


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## Scott W. (Jul 10, 2008)

I would respond to his email asking him why he is taking that position. Business is business.


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## PJD (Aug 15, 2009)

scottw said:


> I would respond to his email asking him why he is taking that position. Business is business.


I did, and the reply was "we don't inspect cigars. Risk of our loss too high I am sorry."


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## Scott W. (Jul 10, 2008)

What loss? you aren't going after them for $$. Sending PM.


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## KINGLISH (Jul 27, 2009)

Sorry man! That is no way to do biz!!


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## PJD (Aug 15, 2009)

I hear that but I guess it makes sense from their standpoint - they have to make good any damaged shipment, and shipments to me, from them, had a history of damage. In retrospect, all I can say is that sometimes it's better to suck it up and take the small loss, because the larger loss is a far more bitter pill to swallow.


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## 96Brigadier (Oct 20, 2009)

That's crappy. By the tact they've taken they're basically saying they don't believe the damage was caused in shipping but rather you're not being truthful in order to get discounted cigars. I feel for you, you're getting screwed through no fault of your own.


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## PJD (Aug 15, 2009)

96Brigadier said:


> That's crappy. By the tact they've taken they're basically saying they don't believe the damage was caused in shipping but rather you're not being truthful in order to get discounted cigars. I feel for you, you're getting screwed through no fault of your own.


Exactly. I sent them a half-a-dozen closeup high-resolution pics of the four damaged sticks (I think I posted them here, too, IIRC). Honestly, all I really wanted was about a $25 to $40 credit for the damaged cigars on a full box and 3 petaca order. In fact, I made it clear that I would be buying two more boxes in the June-July time frame as soon as my next customer payment comes through. That would have been either the VRs or Trinidads, as well as the Boli RCs for the winter.

I'm about to order the Monte 4s from another vendor in the same country and I'm hoping for the best. At least on those sticks the price difference isn't too bad. The real bummer is that none of the vendors I'm considering ordering from offer the 3- and 5-pack petacas of premium cigars, which are a great way to try something new without breaking the bank.


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## 96Brigadier (Oct 20, 2009)

PJD said:


> Exactly. I sent them a half-a-dozen closeup high-resolution pics of the four damaged sticks (I think I posted them here, too, IIRC). Honestly, all I really wanted was about a $25 to $40 credit for the damaged cigars on a full box and 3 petaca order. In fact, I made it clear that I would be buying two more boxes in the June-July time frame as soon as my next customer payment comes through. That would have been either the VRs or Trinidads, as well as the Boli RCs for the winter.
> 
> I'm about to order the Monte 4s from another vendor in the same country and I'm hoping for the best. At least on those sticks the price difference isn't too bad. The real bummer is that none of the vendors I'm considering ordering from offer the 3- and 5-pack petacas of premium cigars, which are a great way to try something new without breaking the bank.


I know of a vendor that allows you to build your own sampler, yes it's at a single cigar rate but it's not horrible.


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## PJD (Aug 15, 2009)

96Brigadier said:


> I know of a vendor that allows you to build your own sampler, yes it's at a single cigar rate but it's not horrible.


I think I know the vendor (but please feel free to PM me just in case it isn't who I'm thinking of). Yes, it's a less-expensive way to evaluate the Good Stuff but I don't think it's as good a deal as, say, a 3-pack of Esplendidos or a 3-pack of Trinidad Robusto Extras, etc, which is what I did last time.


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## 96Brigadier (Oct 20, 2009)

PJD said:


> I think I know the vendor (but please feel free to PM me just in case it isn't who I'm thinking of). Yes, it's a less-expensive way to evaluate the Good Stuff but I don't think it's as good a deal as, say, a 3-pack of Esplendidos or a 3-pack of Trinidad Robusto Extras, etc, which is what I did last time.


PM was sent before you posted this


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## eyesack (Jul 19, 2009)

Peter, I'm sorry to hear this. However, I just want to correct you that the vendor in question is NOT the #1 vendor. Do some searching and I think you'll find a lot of dirt on them. Just try to see what Google auto-completes in the search box for example. Anyway, the #1 rule I've learned from many experienced smokers here has been, "If it looks too good to be true, it probably is". 
The other thing I've concluded from my experience paying maybe a few cents to a few dollars more per box with other vendors is that you're paying for REAL customer service, REAL quality control, and REAL well, did I say customer service and quality control? 

I too got blacklisted from this vendor for showing them moldy sticks. They told me in so many words, "Your 'friends' on the internet are not experts and that is not mold, it's plume. Don't be so fast to trust those 'experts'." 

God I wish I could just say the name already but yeah, same rules apply; if you want me to spill the beans, PM me and I'll let you know lol.


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## TonyBrooklyn (Jan 28, 2010)

PJD said:


> So, this morning I pulled the trigger on a box of Monte 4s from the large vendor that most of us use (well, based on PMs at any rate).
> 
> From this same vendor, back in December last year, I'd ordered a box of Monte 2s, three of which were fairly heavily damaged. I said nothing at the time. Then, from the same vendor, one tubo Siglo VI was also received badly damaged (as in a split about 1.5" long, vertically, just below the band). I mentioned both incidents to one of the owners via e-mail and he politely said to remind him of this on my next order and there would be a credit issued.
> 
> ...


I am not sticking up for the vendor here so don't take this wrong. You are paying 20% less than anywhere else by your own admission. You get what you pay for plain and simple. I used to do that to no more i pay the extra scratch. Because i never have any problems if i do replacement or refund is immediate. You cant have it both ways.:sorry:


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## PJD (Aug 15, 2009)

With respect, Tony, I disagree. This vendor is not advertising factory rejects, seconds or "outlet-mall"quality with a correspondingly lower price. If that were the case, fine. They're offering first-quality merchandise and a guarantee of safe arrival. Safe arrival to me means not just clearing U.S. customs but arriving at my front door in pristine condition as they arrived from the factory/warehouse/etc. No damage, no mold. I'll gladly pay for shipping insurance if they'd offer it.

Likewise, if they offered the option of "as-is, no-returns", and I agreed to those terms in exchange for a 20% discount, I wouldn't complain either.

If a vendor chooses to advertise first-quality merchandise then it's on them to deliver it, and stand behind their promise, making good if they deliver something bad. As a paying customer that's what I expect. If they're unable to offer it, then advertise as a second-market vendor, or raise prices to match costs.

Remember, too, I originally emailed them they _offered_ me credit on a subsequent purchase, a solution which I was more than happy to accept, and I'd be happily puffing away on my Monte 4s now if they'd lived up to their offer. Heck, I'd have ordered from them even if they said "since you had problems in the past, we'll ship this at the advertised price, less your credit, but with no guarantee of safe arrival."


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## TonyBrooklyn (Jan 28, 2010)

PJD said:


> With respect, Tony, I disagree. This vendor is not advertising factory rejects, seconds or "outlet-mall"quality with a correspondingly lower price. If that were the case, fine. They're offering first-quality merchandise and a guarantee of safe arrival. Safe arrival to me means not just clearing U.S. customs but arriving at my front door in pristine condition as they arrived from the factory/warehouse/etc. No damage, no mold. I'll gladly pay for shipping insurance if they'd offer it.
> 
> Likewise, if they offered the option of "as-is, no-returns", and I agreed to those terms in exchange for a 20% discount, I wouldn't complain either.
> 
> ...


You make valid points i feel your frustration if the 20% is not worth it to you then you did right by parting ways. I had similar problems with a Swiss vendor years back. He loved to take my money but when i had a problem he was deaf dumb and blind. So now i pay a little more and i enjoy the cigars with no reservations. I mean this is a great hobby so the stress part of it nobody needs. Hope it all works out for you.


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## PJD (Aug 15, 2009)

TonyBrooklyn said:


> You make valid points i feel your frustration if the 20% is not worth it to you then you did right by parting ways.


Except I didn't part ways with them. They parted ways with _me_. They fired me, the customer! And to make matters worse, my next-preferred vendor seems to have implemented a $300 minimum order. This hobby is getting increasingly "fun" all the time.


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## TonyBrooklyn (Jan 28, 2010)

PJD said:


> Except I didn't part ways with them. They parted ways with _me_. They fired me, the customer! And to make matters worse, my next-preferred vendor seems to have implemented a $300 minimum order. This hobby is getting increasingly "fun" all the time.


Between that and the seizure factor or worse the dreaded letter. One has to ask themselves why we bother.:faint:


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## 1911-Neil (Nov 29, 2009)

I noticed one of the other vendors is advertising 15% off everything right now. Not sure how long that offer will stand so I took advantage of it immediately.


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## PJD (Aug 15, 2009)

1911-Neil said:


> I noticed one of the other vendors is advertising 15% off everything right now. Not sure how long that offer will stand so I took advantage of it immediately.


I believe it was just for the (past) weekend, and it had a high minimum. I, too, took good advantage.


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## Scott W. (Jul 10, 2008)

It is until the end of today with a $300 minimum order. I too took advantage.


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## Esoteric (Jun 15, 2009)

PJD said:


> Except I didn't part ways with them. They parted ways with _me_. They fired me, the customer! And to make matters worse, my next-preferred vendor seems to have implemented a $300 minimum order. This hobby is getting increasingly "fun" all the time.


I have to say, stuff like those high minimum orders have been my #1 obstacle in getting to try some CC's to find out what I like!! That and shipping of $20 on a 5 pack LOL


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## PJD (Aug 15, 2009)

Esoteric said:


> I have to say, stuff like those high minimum orders have been my #1 obstacle in getting to try some CC's to find out what I like!! That and shipping of $20 on a 5 pack LOL


To be honest, that's the first time I ever saw a $300 minimum order vendor-wide, and from what was posted up-thread it will expire at the end of today. Most of the big places include shipping in their full-box prices, too. If you buy one box of 25 that's not a huge cash outlay and IMHO you're gettng a good deal.


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## Scott W. (Jul 10, 2008)

I got 52 sticks for $300.63 plus free shipping. Less than $6 per stick! Can't go wrong. That includes RASS, BBF and a few Cohiba singles. My B & M charges more than that for an Oliva Series O.


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## TonyBrooklyn (Jan 28, 2010)

scottw said:


> I got 52 sticks for $300.63 plus free shipping. Less than $6 per stick! Can't go wrong. That includes RASS, BBF and a few Cohiba singles. My B & M charges more than that for an Oliva Series O.


That's why i love Cuban Cigars so much they taste great and are great for the pocket book.:whoo:


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## 1911-Neil (Nov 29, 2009)

I got a box of Party shorts, Boli RC and Monte #4 for $330.33 shipped. Sure they're smaller smokes, but that's 75 sticks for $4.40 average, not bad. Now the dreaded wait.


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## McCleod (Apr 16, 2008)

30 years ago, I heard a very wise man discuss the" impossible triad" as to business deals -- he said you cannot consistently obtain: low prices, fast shipment, and high quality, but you can obtain two of the three. I believe that is pretty true. Regards, Butch


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## KetherInMalkuth (Dec 17, 2009)

Thus situation does indeed suck, I know that I would be incredibly pissed off if I were in your shoes, though I'd still probably just use a different card and set up a new account in my wifes name and have the cigars sent to a PO Box (the price of most PO boxes would be paid for with the savings on just the first order) if I really wanted to order from them again. It's hard to believe a business would be so callous about their customers, but I guess in a market such as theirs, where the majority of shipments are heading toward the US, they know there is little recourse here against their actions.


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## TonyBrooklyn (Jan 28, 2010)

McCleod said:


> 30 years ago, I heard a very wise man discuss the" impossible triad" as to business deals -- he said you cannot consistently obtain: low prices, fast shipment, and high quality, but you can obtain two of the three. I believe that is pretty true. Regards, Butch


+1:couch2:


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## TonyBrooklyn (Jan 28, 2010)

KetherInMalkuth said:


> Thus situation does indeed suck, I know that I would be incredibly pissed off if I were in your shoes, though I'd still probably just use a different card and set up a new account in my wifes name and have the cigars sent to a PO Box (the price of most PO boxes would be paid for with the savings on just the first order) if I really wanted to order from them again. It's hard to believe a business would be so callous about their customers, but I guess in a market such as theirs, where the majority of shipments are heading toward the US, they know there is little recourse here against their actions.


Why would a person do that? So when he has another problem and he complains again. They cancel his new account.:dunno:


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## KetherInMalkuth (Dec 17, 2009)

TonyBrooklyn said:


> Why would a person do that? So when he has another problem and he complains again. They cancel his new account.:dunno:


Because sometimes, money talks. I'm all for going with the company that gives me the best service. But if I'm looking at a $60-100 difference on an order, I'd probably swallow my pride and go for price. Call me cheap.


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## PJD (Aug 15, 2009)

KetherInMalkuth said:


> Because sometimes, money talks. I'm all for going with the company that gives me the best service. But if I'm looking at a $60-100 difference on an order, I'd probably swallow my pride and go for price. Call me cheap.


Hey, I don't disagree with you, but heaven help you if your next order gets lost in shipment or you get 300 moldy or cracked cigars or whatever. You're probably not going to have a lot of recourse.

I've found a suitable vendor that I've managed to develop a good rapport with and their prices aren't horrible (though yes, they're higher than the first guys). The downside is they don't offer 3- and 5-packs whereas the first one does, and they're reasonably-priced to boot.


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## KetherInMalkuth (Dec 17, 2009)

PJD said:


> Hey, I don't disagree with you, but heaven help you if your next order gets lost in shipment or you get 300 moldy or cracked cigars or whatever. You're probably not going to have a lot of recourse.
> 
> I've found a suitable vendor that I've managed to develop a good rapport with and their prices aren't horrible (though yes, they're higher than the first guys). The downside is they don't offer 3- and 5-packs whereas the first one does, and they're reasonably-priced to boot.


Believe me, I'm knocking on wood. I live in the US and have limited cash, so I gotta do what I gotta do. I'd love to say that I'd stand by principles and pony up extra cash to deal with a better merchant, but in reality I probably wouldn't... just being honest.


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