# What happens to ISOM seconds?



## RUJohnny99 (Jan 20, 2008)

I've always wondered what happens to ISOM seconds. Every CC in a box looks just like every other one in the box. Surely not every wrapper in Cuba looks the same. So what happens to all those seconds? Are they packaged in glass top boxes & shipped to Mexico? Are they unravelled and rolled again? Where do they go?


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## icehog3 (Feb 20, 2005)

RUJohnny99 said:


> I've always wondered what happens to ISOM seconds. Every CC in a box looks just like every other one in the box. Surely not every wrapper in Cuba looks the same. So what happens to all those seconds? Are they packaged in glass top boxes & shipped to Mexico? Are they unravelled and rolled again? Where do they go?


The cigars are sorted by wrapper color, leading to the cigars usually looking very similarly colored in a box.


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## montecristo#2 (May 29, 2006)

This is Cuba not Rocky Patel. . .  :r

In terms of NCs, does Padron have seconds?


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## 44MAG (Mar 9, 2008)

I think they feed em to the locals :r


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## RUJohnny99 (Jan 20, 2008)

montecristo#2 said:


> This is Cuba not Rocky Patel. . .  :r
> 
> In terms of NCs, does Padron have seconds?


Yeah...they rip the wrapper off & ship them to the Pepin factory. :ss


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## Silound (May 22, 2007)

RUJohnny99 said:


> Yeah...they rip the wrapper off & ship them to the Pepin factory. :ss


Given the wrapper gives a cigar a large portion of it's flavor, I'm rather partial to say they can keep their wrappers


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## Bythehour (Jun 6, 2007)

icehog3 said:


> The cigars are sorted by wrapper color, leading to the cigars usually looking very similarly colored in a box.


+1. I don't recall seeing many "seconds" on the factory floor. I wouldn't be surprised if they were sold out the back door....


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## Harpo (Oct 11, 2007)

They are given to the rollers to smoke, I believe. :2


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## Navydoc (Jan 26, 2005)

Silound said:


> *Given the wrapper gives a cigar a large portion of it's flavor*, I'm rather partial to say they can keep their wrappers


Always a matter of discussion.......


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## jkim05 (Feb 26, 2007)

I don't think Cuba is as much a stickler for QC as some NC manufacturers hence draw problems and water spots on wrappers. I have also heard that some retailers sell uglier boxes as singles. I do not have firsthand knowledge to say for sure though.


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## Funnymantrip (Oct 28, 2004)

I thought they went to MM's and cigarette production. But I'm and idiot.


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## Da Klugs (Jan 8, 2005)

XX XY :ss


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## jkim05 (Feb 26, 2007)

Da Klugs said:


> XX XY :ss


so otherwise...


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## hk3 (Jan 29, 2008)

Good question, Im sure the workers probably smoke the seconds... or maybe they eat them?


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## Scimmia (Sep 22, 2006)

Funnymantrip said:


> I thought they went to MM's and cigarette production. But I'm and idiot.


This is what I've heard, too; anything that doesn't make it past quality control goes into cigarettes.


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## jkorp (Sep 27, 2007)

icehog3 said:


> The cigars are sorted by wrapper color, leading to the cigars usually looking very similarly colored in a box.


:tpd:

Cigars in a given box look consistent, but from box to box there can be alot of variations. Probably not too many 2nd. Maybe they chop'em up for short fill. Maybe they become low budget smokes, I've seen some crappy looking JLP's. My question is where do the JLP seconds go :ss


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## jkim05 (Feb 26, 2007)

Here's another thought...peso cigars. They could just chop up the really crappy ones and throw the tobacco in there, voila, bauza and reloba, or perhaps cuban pipe tobacco? Idk, just throwing in out there.


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## icehog3 (Feb 20, 2005)

jkorp said:


> My question is where do the JLP seconds go :ss


Maybe an answer best not sought out.  :r


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## mosesbotbol (Sep 21, 2005)

They're shredding for cigarettes. 

They may also use them for machine made short filler cigars, but I am not positive on that one.


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## the nub (Mar 24, 2006)

I was told by a former H.Upmann QC that cigars with bad wrappers (tears, holes) are re-wrapped. If it's caught early enough, it goes back to the person who rolled it. If it's overweight, won't draw then it's shredded. Bad cigars are counted against a roller's daily production and there's some kind of penalty system for poor performance. Not sure where the shredded tobacco goes but I'm pretty sure not to cigarettes. I walked by a cigarette factory in Trinidad and the pungent smell wafting through the streets was very distinct- much like hay.


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## mdtaggart (Sep 22, 2006)

Seems we have a divided speculation about them going to cigs. So, does anyone have any hard info, or are we all just guessing. 
My guess is there are no seconds. They probably reuse every scrap, even off of the rolling floor. Just my guess, cuz, i am a dumbass. :ss


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## pnoon (Jun 8, 2005)

Silound said:


> Given the wrapper gives a cigar a large portion of it's flavor, I'm rather partial to say they can keep their wrappers





Navydoc said:


> Always a matter of discussion.......


I was under the impression that the wrapper contributes only a small portion to the overall flavor. So I guess it's not really a given.


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## Scimmia (Sep 22, 2006)

I've got a video somewhere that said that they went into cigarettes, I'll see if I can dig it up again.


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## Navydoc (Jan 26, 2005)

mosesbotbol said:


> They're shredding for cigarettes.
> 
> They may also use them for machine made short filler cigars, but I am not positive on that one.


I thought Cuba no longer made MM's....


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## Scimmia (Sep 22, 2006)

Navydoc said:


> I thought Cuba no longer made MM's....


Habanos SA no long makes MMs, other entities in Cuba do.


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## SmokinApe (Jun 20, 2007)

Scimmia said:


> Habanos SA no long makes MMs, other entities in Cuba do.


I think JPLs are MMs and aren't they Habanos SA?


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## Scimmia (Sep 22, 2006)

SmokinApe said:


> I think JPLs are MMs and aren't they Habanos SA?


They used to be MM, now they're hand made, short filler.


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## lenguamor (Nov 23, 2006)

pnoon said:


> I was under the impression that the wrapper contributes only a small portion to the overall flavor. So I guess it's not really a given.


I think the wrapper contributes the _nuance_...like in a long island iced tea - you have a bunch of different liquors in there, but splash in just the requisite tiny amount of coca-cola and the overall impression you get is mostly of coke.

And then there's the impression of the floor on your face after you drink 3-4 of them. 

On cigar tobacco being used as cigarette filler: not likely, since the tobacco used in cigarettes has to be treated with literally dozens of chemicals and non-tobacco substances to mask the taste of the nicotine and ameliorate its harshness; otherwise cigarettes would be unsmokeable.

Plus, does Cuba even _make_ cigarettes?


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## SmokinApe (Jun 20, 2007)

Scimmia said:


> They used to be MM, now they're hand made, short filler.


Yeah, I just read up on that.... Thanks for the heads up...


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## Scimmia (Sep 22, 2006)

lenguamor said:


> Plus, does Cuba even _make_ cigarettes?


Absolutely, a number of internet vendors carry them.


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## Mikes (Apr 6, 2004)

RUJohnny99 said:


> I've always wondered what happens to ISOM seconds. Every CC in a box looks just like every other one in the box. Surely not every wrapper in Cuba looks the same. So what happens to all those seconds? Are they packaged in glass top boxes & shipped to Mexico? Are they unravelled and rolled again? Where do they go?


Ever heard of Guantanameras? lol... Seriously though I do think they get chopped and made into cigs and or Piedras.


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## lenguamor (Nov 23, 2006)

Scimmia said:


> Absolutely, a number of internet vendors carry them.


I wish you hadn't told me.

I was at my regular coffeeshop recently, hanging out back with the rest of the degenerates and someone was smoking an American Spirit (my old brand). For the first time since I quit 9 years ago I wanted one so bad it made my mouth water!

I've been craving one ever since. Dammit.


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## Scimmia (Sep 22, 2006)

lenguamor said:


> I wish you hadn't told me.
> 
> I was at my regular coffeeshop recently, hanging out back with the rest of the degenerates and someone was smoking an American Spirit (my old brand). For the first time since I quit 9 years ago I wanted one so bad it made my mouth water!
> 
> I've been craving one ever since. Dammit.


Don't worry, they're not worth it. Absolute crap.

:bn


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## jkorp (Sep 27, 2007)

Scimmia said:


> Absolutely, a number of internet vendors carry them.


Not to advocate cigarettes, but at the current US price for the $hit they call cigarettes, you could buy cuban cigarettes and possibily even save money.


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## Scimmia (Sep 22, 2006)

OK, just found it, it's a video from Redstone Pictures called "The Essence of the Cuban Cigar", where they have Hilda Ulanía Baró Zamora, manager of the Partagas factory speaking. Direct quote (of the translater, atleast):
"If any of our cigars are not perfect, the tobacco is recycled and used as cigarettes."


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## RUJohnny99 (Jan 20, 2008)

The Cuban cigarette brands I've seen are Cohiba and R&J. In Playa del Carmen earlier this month they were $6.50, vs $4 for the American version.

It really says a lot about the state of NJ when cigarette prices here are the same price as Cubans.


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## LasciviousXXX (Oct 12, 2004)

The Cohiba cigarettes are like candy too :dr

The Upmann's aren't too shabby either, not much of a fan of the RyJ's though


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## SR Mike (Feb 4, 2008)

Here the video Scimmia was mentioning: 
http://images.cigarweekly.com/media/habanos-video.mpeg

Which can also be found in this thread:
http://www.clubstogie.com/vb/showthread.php?t=30278&highlight=great+video


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## omowasu (Aug 9, 2006)

They shred them and make them into Guantanameras or JLPs!


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## Silound (May 22, 2007)

pnoon said:


> I was under the impression that the wrapper contributes only a small portion to the overall flavor. So I guess it's not really a given.


It changes the flavor, not the essence of the cigar.

Take a Fuente King B and a Fuente Opus X. Same filler, different wrapper (so I've been told by reps time and time again). Vastly different flavors, but a similar essence.


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## LasciviousXXX (Oct 12, 2004)

Silound said:


> It changes the flavor, not the essence of the cigar.
> 
> Take a Fuente King B and a Fuente Opus X. Same filler, different wrapper (so I've been told by reps time and time again). Vastly different flavors, but a similar essence.


This is a topic of much discussion in the cigar world so I'm not sure you'll find a consensus on that one.


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## donp (Mar 5, 2006)

Scimmia said:


> OK, just found it, it's a video from Redstone Pictures called "The Essence of the Cuban Cigar", where they have Hilda Ulanía Baró Zamora, manager of the Partagas factory speaking. Direct quote (of the translater, atleast):
> "If any of our cigars are not perfect, the tobacco is recycled and used as cigarettes."


Thanks for that and good investigative work. Reading through this thread I became very interested to know the truth of it


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## M1903A1 (Jun 7, 2006)

donp said:


> Thanks for that and good investigative work. Reading through this thread I became very interested to know the truth of it


Yes, good info!


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## Navydoc (Jan 26, 2005)

Silound said:


> It changes the flavor, not the essence of the cigar.
> 
> Take a Fuente King B and a Fuente Opus X. Same filler, different wrapper (so I've been told by reps time and time again). Vastly different flavors, but a similar essence.


Maybe Moki has an opinion on this....


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