# Pre-Castro Cuban Cigar Price Index



## mosesbotbol (Sep 21, 2005)

Is there an index somewhere that has hammer prices for pre-Castro Cuban cigars?

A wine collecting friend of mine just bought an estate of a large wine collector and the collector had literally 100+ boxes of pre-Castro Cuban cigars and I have been asked to help him determine their worth for pre-auction estimates or for private sale.

He does not know which ones they are yet, but I was told they are in the 100's of boxes or something. He also has a lot of 18th Congac's too.

My preference is to sell them to a private collector, just the savings over hammer fee's on both sides could make for an attactive offer to both parties. My friend does not want to nickel dime each box as there's too many.


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## clampdown (Feb 7, 2006)

Side note, if the band reads Pinar...RUN!!!


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## The Professor (Jul 20, 2006)

As far as I know, there isn't. If you knew the Marcas, you could search the Christie's archives and see if specific boxes have sold. Generally, puros command more than clears. Storage conditions, box conditions, etc. are all key in determining price. Depending on the marcas, you might be best off going through a broker, who will determine price and take a cut. Again, though, whether they'd even take it depends on condition, marcas, etc. If you've got a bunch of Don Canditos and PC RA Private Stocks, your friend will be rollin' in dough. 

Good luck.


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## mosesbotbol (Sep 21, 2005)

I would like to avoid Christies as they take 18% from the seller and 21% from the buyer. Someone with deep pockets could save 15% right there by going private.

Everything is known Marcas, no Clears, no Pinars... Just the wine alone is 500k+, I am imagining the cigars to be amazing.


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## The Professor (Jul 20, 2006)

There are brokers that don't have fees so high. Plus, I think Christie's is done with cigars, no?


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## mosesbotbol (Sep 21, 2005)

The Professor said:


> There are brokers that don't have fees so high. Plus, I think Christie's is done with cigars, no?


I think London is still selling them. I think all the major houses charge at least 15% on the buyer. Assuming 100 boxes at $500 each, that's a nice chunk of change. I bet the boxes will go for much more than that.

I shouldn't have even mentioned about the cigars until they arrive, but want to get some feelers out there. I have a couple people in mind that may be into them.

Wish I could afford to buy them :hn Spending too much at the wine auctions these days to consider cigars like that.


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## The Professor (Jul 20, 2006)

mosesbotbol said:


> I think London is still selling them. I think all the major houses charge at least 15% on the buyer. Assuming 100 boxes at $500 each, that's a nice chunk of change. I bet the boxes will go for much more than that.
> 
> I shouldn't have even mentioned about the cigars until they arrive, but want to get some feelers out there. I have a couple people in mind that may be into them.
> 
> Wish I could afford to buy them :hn Spending too much at the wine auctions these days to consider cigars like that.


Right ... and I'm saying that there are non-auction folks who sell cigars on consignment for less than 15%, which may be a way for you to sell everything without having to sell it all at once. Just a thought.


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## n3uka (Nov 13, 2006)

If possible, pictures would be nice when they arrive:tu


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## Sean9689 (Nov 9, 2005)

PM sent.


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## The Professor (Jul 20, 2006)

Sean9689 said:


> PM sent.


You're one of 3 or 4 people from whom I was expecting that post, Bling Boy.  :tu


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## chibnkr (May 2, 2007)

So who are the others, Darrel?


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## Sean9689 (Nov 9, 2005)

chibnkr said:


> So who are the others, Darrel?


:tu


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## The Professor (Jul 20, 2006)

chibnkr said:


> So who are the others, Darrel?


Dos!

:r:r:r


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## floydpink (Feb 15, 2007)

Not sure if it would help, but Corona sells them here in orlando and I could ask if they have a reference. I do know that the prices that Corona sells them for is eye popping.


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## Mikes (Apr 6, 2004)

lol....three...four....and five should be chiming in soon ;o)

Mikes


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## ResIpsa (Mar 8, 2006)

The Professor said:


> Dos!
> 
> :r:r:r


Am I numero 3???? ROFL


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## The Professor (Jul 20, 2006)

ResIpsa said:


> Am I numero 3???? ROFL


3 & 4 are online ... we'll see if they chime in. :r


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## Deem (Jan 1, 2000)

ResIpsa said:


> Am I numero 3???? ROFL


Yea  and I'm #989! :r


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## Footbag (May 14, 2008)

Please let us know where they are going to be sold. I would love a shot at some of them, but couldn't take the whole lot. Pictures would be great.


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## Guest (Oct 3, 2008)

Fine! #3. :tu


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## The Professor (Jul 20, 2006)

cabinetsticker said:


> Fine! #3. :tu


Ding, Ding, Ding, Ding, Ding!!!!! :tu

:r


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## chibnkr (May 2, 2007)

floydpink said:


> Not sure if it would help, but Corona sells them here in orlando and I could ask if they have a reference. I do know that the prices that Corona sells them for is eye popping.


Unfortunately, vs. private market transactions and Christie's auction prices, this is more of a "one-off price" aimed toward the more casual cigar smoker looking for something ostensibly "special" and playing/praying on the "Cuban" angle and not necessarily representative of the real "market" price to a collector/smoker.


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## mosesbotbol (Sep 21, 2005)

Let's wait until they are here. There's a lot of speculation, especially from me. I was told "hundred's of boxes", for what ever that is worth. Considering this guy moves 200K+ a month of wine, I would take him at his word.

Of course, we'll take a picture of each box and try several cigars to get a general idea of their condition first.


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## vstrommark (Oct 25, 2007)

Big D, am I #4? :r


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## mosesbotbol (Sep 21, 2005)

All of the cigars are in fantastic shape. Been in the same humidor since the 50's. Even the retail mail paper is still on the bottom of boxes. Most our Dunhill cabinets. Wrappers are silky. We've started research on pricing and hope to have them all gone by the new year.

I just don't want to deal with nickel and dime with people. I know most can't afford to buy whole boxes at what these are worth, but we may consider breaking them up as each cigar could cost more than many newer boxes...

Plan on smoking some this weekend.


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## parshooter (Dec 22, 2007)

DAMN. That's like finding a 68 Shelby in grandma's garage. Beautiful stuff :tu


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## mosesbotbol (Sep 21, 2005)

parshooter said:


> DAMN. That's like finding a 68 Shelby in grandma's garage. Beautiful stuff :tu


Like find 5 of them and spares... What I took pictures of is not even half of it.

Now I just have to find some people who can buy 68 Shelby's and not wince...


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## Footbag (May 14, 2008)

Have you considered sending them to Christies? There is another cigar auction coming up. 

This collection, looks like it could be a headliner.


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## mosesbotbol (Sep 21, 2005)

Footbag said:


> Have you considered sending them to Christies? There is another cigar auction coming up.
> 
> This collection, looks like it could be a headliner.


Yes, and seller's comission is not that high, but we were hoping to do it privately as now we are in a shaky economy and it could be crapshoot at the auction. These cigars could be the cover of their catalog.

The Dunhill topedos and Don Candidos are just WOW!! As is the R&J Cedros with Dunhill stamps. They are all amazing, what am I saying...


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## Codename47 (Aug 6, 2007)

I would take some boxes if I were you :ss


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## SeanGAR (Jul 9, 2004)

Make a list and email a couple of major players in HK. Wouldn't hurt to get feedback from somebody like Mitchell, MRN or Gerard. A large lot of old cigars, especially ones of known provenance and immaculate looking, top smokes like you have there, is going to attract serious money. You can't find a lot like that anymore. You just need to make sure you get proper valuation and get to keep your seller's commission :tu.


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## mosesbotbol (Sep 21, 2005)

Codename47 said:


> I would take some boxes if I were you :ss


A little to expensive for my pocketbook.


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## bolio (Sep 19, 2007)

i agree with the post above. Hong Kong would be your best bet. try to contact the cigar divans there and you might be in the forbes list next year.


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## mosesbotbol (Sep 21, 2005)

They are posted on a popular forum with some of HK collectors. We still want to photo them correct as it is important to show them acurately for us and the buyer. 

A couple of them are pretty much taken at my asking price already.


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## chibnkr (May 2, 2007)

Unfortunately, the economy is not good. In addition, there are only a limited number of people who purchase these kinds of cigars...a very small market and most of them know each other, see just about everything that comes to market, and have a good idea about price. There have been a lot of ex-Dunhill cigars appearing on the market lately (I can count more than 30 boxes off the top of my head that I personally know about or was offered) and I have sensed some "fatigue" among collectors who have already spend significantly above their budget year to date. Just something to consider.


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## mosesbotbol (Sep 21, 2005)

chibnkr said:


> Unfortunately, the economy is not good. In addition, there are only a limited number of people who purchase these kinds of cigars...a very small market and most of them know each other, see just about everything that comes to market, and have a good idea about price. There have been a lot of ex-Dunhill cigars appearing on the market lately (I can count more than 30 boxes off the top of my head that I personally know about or was offered) and I have sensed some "fatigue" among collectors who have already spend significantly above their budget year to date. Just something to consider.


A few Cab's are arleady spoken for. Will post an updated list on Monday.


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## DonWeb (Jul 3, 2005)

mosesbotbol said:


> A few Cab's are already spoken for. Will post an updated list on Monday.


Goodonya. These are tough times - glad they're moving for ya.


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## mosesbotbol (Sep 21, 2005)

DonWeb said:


> Goodonya. These are tough times - glad they're moving for ya.


Thanks. For the people that have bought them, the economy is not a concern. We smoked a few last night and it was a real treat!


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## Sandman (Mar 26, 2006)

mosesbotbol said:


> Thanks. For the people that have bought them, the economy is not a concern. We smoked a few last night and it was a real treat!


Moses, I trust your palate. When you say a real treat, what are you talking here? Great, tasty, pretty good etc......?,,,, and what did you smoke?


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## mosesbotbol (Sep 21, 2005)

Sandman said:


> Moses, I trust your palate. When you say a real treat, what are you talking here? Great, tasty, pretty good etc......?,,,, and what did you smoke?


Real treat in that the tobacco takes on a new level of tastes and actually burns slightly different than a modern cigar. We had a Ramon Allones next to a modern RASS to compare. The older cigar's ash was just so white and it smoked so well. The raw tobacco was gone and instead a bunch of nuanced flavors, in a way similar to mature Burgundy. I found it very similar to comparing a '95 and '62 Burgundy for sure. There are facets of a new cigar that I like also.

My girlfriend would say the Pre-Castros are "less stinky" than the newer ones, lol...

Many of the cigars I wouldn't know how old they were if they weren't in their box. For sure, they look like 80's or older, but if someone told me late 50's...


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## dentonparrots (Aug 19, 2008)

Lovely cigars, truly amazing!

Does anyone know where/ how to find the "major players" in Hong Kong?


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