# Freezing more necessary for Habanos?



## jmj_203 (Mar 16, 2011)

So today I just received my 1st shipment, so excited and ready to expand my collection with this side. My question is, is it more recommended to freeze incoming shipments of Habanos as opposed to NC's? My setup is stored in our basement, which is pretty perfect environment wise. I currently DO NOT freeze any NC's because the basement ambient temp is pretty much dead-nutz 65-69F degrees year round. It seriously never goes above 70, and we have central air anyways if it did. My collection is going on 4 yrs old and I've never had any instances of outbreak, even traded & bombed sticks. Would it be recommended to freeze incoming Habanos? The thought of freezing something with a level of moisture content inside just makes me uncomfortable, but I do not want bugs.


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## bpegler (Mar 30, 2006)

Always freeze Havanas.

Always.

HSA claims to freeze them, but the phrase "quality control" hasn't entered into their lexicon.

Freezing won't hurt them, not freezing may destroy your entire collection.


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## Tritones (Jun 23, 2010)

What Bob said.

Not to be alarmist, but beetle eggs will hatch and complete a full life-cycle at 65-69 degrees. It's at the low end of their range, so it takes longer than at higher temperatures, but 65 degrees is not cold enough to force dormancy or kill the eggs. 63 degrees or so is where dormancy sets in. Death takes much lower temperatures. How long tobacco beetles (in any stage of development) can remain dormant and still survive is a question I'm still trying to find an answer to. Some kinds of beetles can remain dormant for years, maybe even decades, and survive. But they live in extreme climates where this is a necessary survival strategy. That kind of adaptation would seem unnecessary for tobacco beetles, given their natural history.


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## jmj_203 (Mar 16, 2011)

freezing it is then! Thanks for the advice.


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## TonyBrooklyn (Jan 28, 2010)

jmj_203 said:


> So today I just received my 1st shipment, so excited and ready to expand my collection with this side. My question is, is it more recommended to freeze incoming shipments of Habanos as opposed to NC's? My setup is stored in our basement, which is pretty perfect environment wise. I currently DO NOT freeze any NC's because the basement ambient temp is pretty much dead-nutz 65-69F degrees year round. It seriously never goes above 70, and we have central air anyways if it did. My collection is going on 4 yrs old and I've never had any instances of outbreak, even traded & bombed sticks. Would it be recommended to freeze incoming Habanos? The thought of freezing something with a level of moisture content inside just makes me uncomfortable, but I do not want bugs.


All cigars should be frozen regardless of origin. Beetles may hatch at temps as low as 60 degrees or so i have been told. Also freezing cigars and introducing them to a contaminated stash can also result in them being destroyed.


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## zipa (May 24, 2008)

Never frozen one, never will freeze one. Never had any problems, either, for the past ten years or so of smoking and collecting cigars. If the retailers can afford the risk of not freezing the cigars, then so can I. And if they don't take that chance, well, then why should I re-freeze them?

Not saying that this is the way to do it, but it sure is the way I do it.


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## Mante (Dec 25, 2009)

I am more worried about NC cigars. In my little time smoking I have never seen even a hint of a beetle in my cuban cigars but I have read many horror stories on these forums regarding NCs. I would challenge the habanos smokers here to show me evidence of beetle issues with their smokes (your own, not the generic images we all see on the boards). I would put $20 ****** on the point that there are very, VERY few cases of bugs in habanos. :thumb:


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## avitti (Jun 4, 2011)

Tashaz said:


> I am more worried about NC cigars. In my little time smoking I have never seen even a hint of a beetle in my cuban cigars but I have read many horror stories on these forums regarding NCs. I would challenge the habanos smokers here to show me evidence of beetle issues with their smokes (your own, not the generic images we all see on the boards). I would put $20 ****** on the point that there are very, VERY few cases of bugs in habanos. :thumb:


 Being i store all my cigars loose,just the thought of, coupled with those 'generic pictures' is reason enough to freeze every cigar that comes through my front door.Being that freezing has no ill effect on cigars,for me its an ounce of prevention vs the pound of cure


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## bpegler (Mar 30, 2006)

Warren,

No pictures, but I received a box of Montecristo #3 two years ago from the vendor that used to give out the little chocolates and is now out of business. The entire bottom layer was destroyed with beetles.

It definitely happens.


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## sengjc (Nov 15, 2010)

Tashaz said:


> I am more worried about NC cigars. In my little time smoking I have never seen even a hint of a beetle in my cuban cigars but I have read many horror stories on these forums regarding NCs. I would challenge the habanos smokers here to show me evidence of beetle issues with their smokes (your own, not the generic images we all see on the boards). I would put $20 ****** on the point that there are very, VERY few cases of bugs in habanos. :thumb:


That's 'cos you keep yours in a temp controlled wine fridge, mate. :lol:

Already the wife's pissed I got one for the wine. If she smells wind I am getting another for the smokes, I'll be a dead man.


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## keithfjr (Apr 21, 2011)

I always freeze my habanos, hardly ever the NC's.


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## dvickery (Jan 1, 2000)

tashaz has a point...you dont see much beetle damage these days.

up to (about) 2003 i used to see some beetle damage almost every time i got home from havana...then in about 2003 something happened with habanossa...i dont know what...and you just dont see evidence of beetles much at all anymore.

i am old school and my collecting predates '03 by enough years that i still freeze everything...outbreak(pre millenium) and live crawling horrors (once is enough)in my cooler has assured me that this is the way i will always go.

derrek


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## TonyBrooklyn (Jan 28, 2010)

bpegler said:


> Warren,
> 
> No pictures, but I received a box of Montecristo #3 two years ago from the vendor that used to give out the little chocolates and is now out of business. The entire bottom layer was destroyed with beetles.
> 
> It definitely happens.


Damn straight it does!
Lost an entire box of 08 Partagas Salomones that is way after freezing was supposed to start on the island. Besides even if they are frozen the consensus that one is safe is a huge misconception. Re contamination can take place anywhere along the line on its way to you.


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## protekk (Oct 18, 2010)

I had to send back a box of party shorts about a year ago because of beetle damage. I'm pretty sure the vendor was at fault as they have a bit of a reputation for beetle activity and overhumidification. Either way I saw first hand and would be happy to never see them again.


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## smelvis (Sep 7, 2009)

Tashaz said:


> I am more worried about NC cigars. In my little time smoking I have never seen even a hint of a beetle in my cuban cigars but I have read many horror stories on these forums regarding NCs. I would challenge the habanos smokers here to show me evidence of beetle issues with their smokes (your own, not the generic images we all see on the boards). I would put $20 ****** on the point that there are very, VERY few cases of bugs in habanos. :thumb:


Hey Dude
I agree now, I would have argued but have seen a lot of thread about beetles coming from the states. sometimes a lot of posts about them. I still just freeze them all period.


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## Mante (Dec 25, 2009)

bpegler said:


> Warren,
> 
> No pictures, but I received a box of Montecristo #3 two years ago from the vendor that used to give out the little chocolates and is now out of business. The entire bottom layer was destroyed with beetles.
> 
> It definitely happens.


It's all good Bob & my point was not that it does not happen, just it happens rarely enough that it does not concern me. I was giving an answer in relation to the OP's question is all, not stating whether anyone should freeze or not.


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## Tarks (Mar 3, 2009)

I never freeze and probably never will. Chalk it up to laziness more than anything else!


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## smelvis (Sep 7, 2009)

Tarks said:


> I never freeze and probably never will. Chalk it up to laziness more than anything else!


If you got beetles Jeff would you?


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## Tarks (Mar 3, 2009)

smelvis said:


> If you got beetles Jeff would you?


Over the course of 10 years or so, I have seen beetles on 3 occasions. Two of them were orders that never saw my humis. One was a bomb that a brother sent me that was in my humi for a few months. I still didn't freeze at that point and haven't seen any sign of beetles since. I think it would have to take an outbreak in one of my humis for me to freeze everything. But from a preventative point of view I can't see me ever freezing. I can respect why others freeze but it's just not for me for several reasons.


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## smelvis (Sep 7, 2009)

Thanks Jeff!


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## asmartbull (Aug 16, 2009)

Tarks said:


> Over the course of 10 years or so, I have seen beetles on 3 occasions. Two of them were orders that never saw my humis. One was a bomb that a brother sent me that was in my humi for a few months. I still didn't freeze at that point and haven't seen any sign of beetles since. I think it would have to take an outbreak in one of my humis for me to freeze everything. But from a preventative point of view I can't see me ever freezing. I can respect why others freeze but it's just not for me for several reasons.


Jeff
I see a few guys that say for "several reasons".....Can you expand, I am always curious about these things...Thanks, Al


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## jmj_203 (Mar 16, 2011)

Thanks for all the viewpoints guys. This is why I love the community here. We all have our own opinions and we are all very steadfast but its good to be able to share thoughts without it turning into a hatefest. I just get the heeby jeebies from bug pics but 4 yrs without has me thinking be defensive and I always check my stash weekly. With a well aged stash I just worry but it does SEEM to be less of a problem with all the worldwide technology improvements. "Science be damned" south park fav trilogy reference.


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## Tan18_01 (Jun 2, 2011)

asmartbull said:


> Jeff
> I see a few guys that say for "several reasons".....Can you expand, I am always curious about these things...Thanks, Al


I might chime in with some of my experiences. 
On a recent occasion (2 months ago I think) a couple of beetles in recent times pop their ugly heads in some NC cigars and luckily the cigars were in celo.
2 out of 3 sticks in the 3 stick box were affected and I quickly put them all in the freezer separating the beetle affected sticks from the non beetle affected sticks.
That was the first time I ever froze any cigars.

Prior to that I have never froze any of my sticks, NC or CC.

Currently I still don't freeze my sticks. 
Why don't I? Mainly because I'm lazy, but the other thing stopping me is that want to get an understanding first hand of how freezing could potentially impact a cigar (I know many have said there is no impact to their cigars when freezing).
I will be smoking the 1 stick not affected by the beetles soon and TBH, I will probably test a few more sticks that I regularly smoke by freezing them first before making the final decision on if I should freeze my whole stash or not.

Just to put things into context, I use a wine cooler for storage and keep it at 16-17C (60.8-62.6F according to google).
Initially the running temp of my wine cooler was the reason I did not see the need to freeze.

To summarize, I don't freeze currently but may in the near future.
These are just my own personal views and practices.
The way I see it, if you can enjoy your cigars that's all that matters.

Edit:
Just wanted to add, apart from the odd special occasion cigars, I have only seriously been smoking/storing cigars for about 1.5 years.


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## Hermit (Aug 5, 2008)

Tan18_01 said:


> I might chime in with some of my experiences.
> On a recent occasion (2 months ago I think) a couple of beetles in recent times pop their ugly heads in some NC cigars and luckily the cigars were in celo.


*Don't *think that'll stop em. :nono:
They eat through cello like a hot knife through butter.

I've been lucky; smoking cigars for 34 years, I've never seen a live one.


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## sengjc (Nov 15, 2010)

smelvis said:


> Hey Dude
> I agree now, I would have argued but have seen a lot of thread about beetles coming from the states. sometimes a lot of posts about them. I still just freeze them all period.


I think that's because there are more cigar smokers in the States and you guys produce cigars. I am also gathering most of your cigars are imported via sea freight. Maybe there is something in the air freighting that helps freeze the sticks?


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## Tarks (Mar 3, 2009)

asmartbull said:


> Jeff
> I see a few guys that say for "several reasons".....Can you expand, I am always curious about these things...Thanks, Al


First and foremost laziness trumps everything else for me.

I think it is fair to say and I would hope that we can all agree that freezing anything (coffee, meat, produce etc) does have some effect on the end product. To what extent is the question. More often than not, the purists in most hobbies will scoff at the thought of freezing. But the cigar world seems to be the exception, at least for the short term. Freezing cigars is a relatively new process in the cigar world and to my knowledge, there have been no studies on the long term effects of freezing a cigar. I am sure there are studies being performed right now and the results would be interesting to see. But the studies on the long term effects will take decades. There is no doubt in my mind that the short term effects are so minute that you would have to be an ultra super taster to notice the difference between a cigar that had been subjected to the freezer and to one that has not. And even then it would impossible to prove due to the fact that there are no cigars that have the exact same properties.

But what are the long term effects? And by long term I'm talking +20 years. It may be possible that freezing a cigar for 48-36 hrs may take 5 years off the life of a cigar. It may take 15 years off. Or it may take 1 year off. Who knows.

It is an interesting subject to discuss and I would love to hear what other people think. Cheers!


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## bpegler (Mar 30, 2006)

Jeff,

You make some excellent points, but HSA claims that they already freeze all their sticks.

I don't believe them, partly ( but not entirely) because of your posts about this. 

I do know that in the past tobacco was sprayed with insecticides. Personally, given a choice, I prefer freezing.

As for a change in flavor as a result from freezing, I'm not aware of any respected source that claims to have identified such. Not saying it can't happen, just that I'm not aware of such a claim.

BTW, even though I freeze most Havanas, when I get really old stuff (12+ years) I leave it alone.


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## asmartbull (Aug 16, 2009)

I was speaking with the owner of a B&M today on this very subject.
Frankly, he had no idea.
We spoke of flavor in the short term and in the long term.
He isn't aware of anyone who has been able to tell the difference in cigars after 5 yrs.
When we started talking about long term ( 10+), he made the comment that he seldom enjoys cigars
that are over 10 yrs old......Thinking about it, I may be in that same camp. While I do enjoy many that are over 10, I find myself
thinking that others have lost their legs.
Like Bob, I too don't freeze any vintage cigars,,,,,if they have not shown signs of critters when I get them, I leave them as is.
I usually only have 1 or 2 birds in the air so it is not a big deal to freeze.
If I had concrete evidence that freezing would adversely effect the cigars, I would make a greater effort in building my own "walk-in".


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## Tarks (Mar 3, 2009)

bpegler said:


> Jeff,
> 
> You make some excellent points, but *HSA claims that they already freeze all their sticks*.
> 
> ...


Ya they claim to, although after many trips to Havana and endless conversations with the brass in the Havana cigar scene I have yet to uncover solid evidence that they do freeze. Most laugh at me when asked the question. I'll be back in a few months and I will try again to uncover the mystery of freezing.


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## Tan18_01 (Jun 2, 2011)

Hermit said:


> *Don't *think that'll stop em. :nono:
> They eat through cello like a hot knife through butter.
> 
> I've been lucky; smoking cigars for 34 years, I've never seen a live one.


Yep, I believe they would. 
In my case I was lucky because the celo had no holes in it still.


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## sengjc (Nov 15, 2010)

Tarks said:


> Ya they claim to, although after many trips to Havana and endless conversations with the brass in the Havana cigar scene I have yet to uncover solid evidence that they do freeze. Most laugh at me when asked the question. I'll be back in a few months and I will try again to uncover the mystery of freezing.


Can you also ask them if they have a Partagas Gran Reserva on the books, please. Thanks!


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## dvickery (Jan 1, 2000)

Tarks said:


> Ya they claim to, although after many trips to Havana and endless conversations with the brass in the Havana cigar scene I have yet to uncover solid evidence that they do freeze. Most laugh at me when asked the question. I'll be back in a few months and I will try again to uncover the mystery of freezing.


i have also asked about freezing facilities(while in factories and cigar stores)...only to be met with a blank stare.

derrek


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## z0diac (May 18, 2010)

I never used to freeze anything. Then I saw a box of cigars that had the sticks looking like perforated tea bags. Now I freeze everything. 4 days in the freezer. Usually a couple hours in the beer fridge, then the freezer for 4 days, then a couple hours in the fridge, then humidor.

I put them in the fridge before/after just to minimize the condensation of moisture.

There's no harm to the cigars in freezing, so its best to be safe they sorry. I would absolutely dread having 1 box hatch and completely destroy my collection which has taken year to build.


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## jmj_203 (Mar 16, 2011)

This being my 1st box in of Habanos this needs to stay up. So I have almost 5 yrs of enjoying Nics, Honds, all the available considered best around this part of the globe. I assumed it would be ok and went for the new cooler for my NEDW YUMMY stash. Thankfully this was my learning curve and my 1st package into my habano cooler. Thank the lord I caught it early with only 25 new sticks in the new habano stash. Pics to come but I,ll say the damn Tony was right. I found a stick from my 1st box after 6 days in my new habano only cooler (just 1 box started) that has visible beetle damage. Pics coming tomorrow when I turn on my pc my phone is awful uploading. I'm shocked and stunned. Beetle appearance on 1st habano box order. FREEZE THEM AND LISTEN TO EVERY FOR FREEZING ADVOCATE IN HERE. These are freezing now. Should have listened to the pros instead of assuming quality control was the same everywhere. I bow Tony. Whew after the freeze I can receive my in process boxes and know what to do. Everyone needs to follow the freeze method. On to building my SAFE stash


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## jmj_203 (Mar 16, 2011)

Well heres the only infected one. Thoroughly inspected the rest and no evidence or holes but they are ALL freezing from now on. The box was a 2011 so I would doubt their claims of freezing also.


2012-07-03 23.44.09 by jmj_203, on Flickr


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## jmj_203 (Mar 16, 2011)

Figured its worth noting the shipment those Hoyos came in was 15 days in transit and we had a 85 to 90 heat wave during that 2 weeks here. Who knows if/how well USPS and their sort facilities control temps and if and how well the trucks are controlled for all the different legs of the shipping journey, but I'm imagining its safe to say that small amount of damage and only 1 stick damaged shows it hatched during shipping and exposure to 90 degree weather. I'm still going to freeze all Havanas upon arrival after this. Last night I 100% inspected my NC stash (downside to having a stash you are proud of is this takes FOREVER) and inspected EVERY cigar and not one sign of damage. If you receive a shipment in hot n humid summer months just remember it happened to me on my first order.


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## Herf N Turf (Dec 31, 2008)

I'm with Jeff on this. I've never frozen en mass and I don't intend to start. Call me the weird one, window licker, helmet with the chin strap wearer, but I can taste it. A few years back, I did an a/b comparison with a couple Opus Robusto from the same tin. I placed one in the fridge for 24hrs, the freezer for 48 and the fridge for another 24. What I detected was a sort of musty, dry-ish taste to the frozen cigar. I'll grant you, this is far from scientific; one cigar and all, but still, Not for me.

Another thing I've read about is that there's a big difference between flash freezing and sticking stuff in your Westinghouse. Flash freezing takes products down to extreme temperatures very fast and then brings them back up. The result is the rapid death of what you're trying to kill and minimal, if any, freezing affect to the product. Flash frozen meats taste identical to untreated examples. Same with coffee beans. Flash freezing is the process declared to be on the horizon by Habanos SA way back in 2004. My understanding is that the facility wasn't completed until late 2006 and that it's still not up to full (complete) capacity. They also declared to employ >2yrs aged tobacco going forward from that point, but we are just now beginning to taste that innovation.

NC companies don't freeze on a large scale. More commonly, they fumigate. Additionally, pesticides are employed almost universally throughout the industry, so the idea of smoking purely "organic" tobacco (whateverthehell 'organic' even means), is unreasonable.

I am always hesitant to say that I've never had a beetle outbreak, because I think as soon as I do, I'll be sent one. Suffice to say, I am happily skipping along the primrose path, on my way to the town of Ignorant Bliss.


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## asmartbull (Aug 16, 2009)

Like Don, I tried an experiment when I first got privilege to this side of the forum.
My goat-like palate could not taste the difference when the cigars were given 6 months to re-acclimate.
That said, I have always wondered what effect freezing would have on long term storage ( 10+ yrs).
My OCD is stronger my laziness, thus I still freeze new stock.
That said, I do not freeze anything that has a few yrs on them.


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## Tritones (Jun 23, 2010)

Herf N Turf said:


> I'm with Jeff on this. I've never frozen en mass and I don't intend to start. Call me the weird one, window licker, helmet with the chin strap wearer, but I can taste it.


Bucket head. Oh, wait - that wasn't one of the choices, was it?

I tasted a beetle once, in one of those Illusiones that come in the foil-like sleeve. Frankly, Ernest, I'll take the chance on a little loss of flavor (that I have yet to notice) by freezing, if it means never again having to say, "I just smoked bug poop and the bug to boot."

Yes, I should have passed on the cigar when I saw a single small hole in the wrapper, but I didn't see any debris in the sleeve, and it was only one little hole, so ... snap, crackle, pop and disgusting taste. Luckily it didn't last past the point where Le Bugge ignited.



asmartbull said:


> That said, I do not freeze anything that has a few yrs on them.


Agreed. If dem bugs, dem bugs, dem bad bugs was going to hatch and chomp, they would have done it in that timeframe. Ideal cigar storage conditions DO NOT preclude beetle development, they only slow it down.


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## Null (Dec 4, 2011)




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## teedles915 (Jun 18, 2009)

I have been a big proponent of the not freezing crowd for years now....... until ths past Tueday, when I opened up a box cigars in the cooler and one of the cigars had been destroyed by the little buggers. I wish I had taken pictures of the thing, but in my panic, and anger I took it out of the cello and tried to disect it and find the dang thing. I never did fid it so I decided I couldn't assume that it wasn't in another one of the sticks. So off to the freeer they went. They should come out today.

That being said, I don't blame anyone for not freezing and if I had never found signs of the little buggers I still wouldn't be doing it. But I am willing to risk what little bit of negative effect there may be to save to rest of my stash. YMMV

Edit: to be fair these stick were not Habanos, nor were they from the other 3 countries famous for cigar making. They were from one of the up and coming cigar producing countries and that could definitely have contributed to the fact, due to the fact that they may not freeze or spray ther product.


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## TonyBrooklyn (Jan 28, 2010)

I used to not freeze the vintage stuff either. Till i saw a box of 80's Dunhills that were dust. You see it doesn't matter how old they are you think they never hatched so their fine.
Sometimes cigars get re contaminated along the line at vendors warehouses or in the case of the Dunhills at auction. Its like catching a cold no one is exempt unless you live in a bubble better safe than sorry. Freezing is cheap insurance in my book. To not freeze is like having sex with out a condom because the person your going to bed with says. Oh you don't need to use one!


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## Perfecto Dave (Nov 24, 2009)

TonyBrooklyn said:


> I used to not freeze the vintage stuff either. Till i saw a box of 80's Dunhills that were dust. You see it doesn't matter how old they are you think they never hatched so their fine.
> Sometimes cigars get re contaminated along the line at vendors warehouses or in the case of the Dunhills at auction. Its like catching a cold no one is exempt unless you live in a bubble better safe than sorry. Freezing is cheap insurance in my book. To not freeze is like having sex with out a condom because the person your going to bed with says. Oh you don't need to use one!


Amen..Amen...Amen....and I've the youngsters to prove it also!


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## Herf N Turf (Dec 31, 2008)

TonyBrooklyn said:


> I used to not freeze the vintage stuff either. Till i saw a box of 80's Dunhills that were dust. You see it doesn't matter how old they are you think they never hatched so their fine.
> Sometimes cigars get re contaminated along the line at vendors warehouses or in the case of the Dunhills at auction. Its like catching a cold no one is exempt unless you live in a bubble better safe than sorry. Freezing is cheap insurance in my book. To not freeze is like having sex with out a condom because the person your going to bed with says. Oh you don't need to use one!


This man speaks from EXPERIENCE! He's had more unprotected sex than a bottle of Jergens!


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## TonyBrooklyn (Jan 28, 2010)

Herf N Turf said:


> This man speaks from EXPERIENCE! He's had more unprotected sex than a bottle of Jergens!


Tattle tale hoto::tease::fish:


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## jmj_203 (Mar 16, 2011)

I was blind from inexperience and adamant about not freezing because no one has definitive proof it does or does not affect flavor. Until my 1st order came in and that bug chewed up thru and back into it. I have been smoking 5 or 6 years and that's the 1st its happened to me, but as much as I have invested and the aged and irreplacable sticks has me always going to freeze from now on. Its just not fun opening your cabinet or cooler to look around and find 1 stick destroyed. Like I said I was LUCKY for 5 years but in the end we probably will all get hit eventually. If the only way to not go thru the horror I just went thru (super sad face) is to freeze then I,m going to be safe rather than sorry. And I used to be adamantly against freezing cigars.


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## jmj_203 (Mar 16, 2011)

Updating my 1st CC purchase happening. I lost only 3 sticks from my 1st box of hoyo petit robustos. And those were thrown out because 1 had visible damage and 2 had super squishy no insides feelings. I mean they were airy. My buddy wanted to smoke them so he smoked both and said they burned hot but he enjoy6ed every puff. He knew they had damage but was like no don't throw out a Habano I will smoke them. The rest are fine and after freezing are now resting for awhile. Effin slope already have 2 boxes en route. 1 past the danger zone other in process there.


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## jmj_203 (Mar 16, 2011)

Tashaz said:


> I am more worried about NC cigars. In my little time smoking I have never seen even a hint of a beetle in my cuban cigars but I have read many horror stories on these forums regarding NCs. I would challenge the habanos smokers here to show me evidence of beetle issues with their smokes (your own, not the generic images we all see on the boards). I would put $20 ****** on the point that there are very, VERY few cases of bugs in habanos. :thumb:


ALso, I'm waiting on that $20 Warren. Just kidding. Just can't believe my 1st order had them.


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