# Freezador



## selpo (Nov 4, 2015)

So.....

I have maxed out my two wineadors and have overflow into a cooler and was looking at different options for increasing storage.

Goal is to consolidate storage, aesthetics, easy maintenance and cost effective.

Ruled out coolidors and tupperdors as I live in Texas and temp is an issue as well as size and looks

Multiple wineadors is out due to cost, space and lack of consolidation.

Aristocrat or similar furniture style cabinet humidors are ruled out due to cost and the fact that it cannot be repurposed if I choose not to continue this hobby in the future.

Did a lot of research and asked a lot of questions and found out about the freezador- have to thank a lot of people, especially daboose from another forum.

The general principle is to have individual airtight containers holding 12-20 boxes of cigars each with their own humidifcation system stored in a freezer with external temperature control set to 65F. I choose manual defrost as there should not be any frost buildup when the temp is set to 65F and I did not want auto defrost cycling messing with the interior climate.

The advantage of the above system is that each individual container can be maintained at a different Rh based upon your smoking preferences for a particular marca or origin.

To monitor the setup, in addition to each airtight container having a hygrometer, I am going to have a data logger placed in the freezador with continuous monitoring of temp with alarms set for min and max temp so that I do not have to open the freezador frequently to eyeball temp and humidity.

For humidifcation, I am going to use couple of 65 Rh Boveda packs in each container and am also going to experiment with some KL in different areas of the freezador to see if it makes any difference. The idea is that since this is for long term storage, I will not be popping in and out of the individal containers so the Bovedas should last for a long time. I will be experimenting with KL and beads as well.

I am going to post links for the items I ordered as well as general setup instructions andwill keep this thread updated with the data logger info. Hopefully, this will be of use to some.

Freezer: Sears.com

External temp controller: 




Containers: Clear Weathertight Totes | The Container Store

Humidification: https://www.amazon.com/Boveda-65-Percent-Humidifier-Dehumidifier-12-Pack/dp/B00CPPG228/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1472395192&sr=8-1&keywords=boveda+65

Hygrometer: Zederkoff Square Hygrometer - Black (#2399405) - CigarBid.com

I should have all of these in the next week or two and will update this thread.

Feel free to post questions or comments.


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## StogieNinja (Jul 29, 2009)

Don't have any questions, but I'm excited for you. This is something I've been considering myself for some time. Separating temp control and rh balancing makes things more stable.


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## WABOOM (Oct 15, 2015)

that's gonna be a hell of a set up.


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## Navistar (May 24, 2016)

Exciting stuff. I use one of those containers and it works well. Holds almost as much as a cooler and it's clear and bpa free.


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## rockethead26 (Mar 31, 2016)

Looks like it will be a great storage system. Just curious as to why both the SensorPush and the Zederkoff?


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## Joe Sticks (May 31, 2016)

I applaud you for looking into this and I'll have to read further on your findings & future experience with this. (I also live in an area where it can get very hot in the summer.)

I read "freezer" and "65F" and got a = "Big ? " but that might be answered with further reading on my part. 

Thanks for posting this !


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## ghe-cl (Apr 9, 2005)

The only things I would suggest are make sure the containers are air tight and you might want to consider the Xikar Puro-Temp system with two or three sensors to monitor humidity and temperature. (Lifetime warranty.) Looks like you'll be able to store a lot of smokes!


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## Joe Sticks (May 31, 2016)

@selpo - why a freezer instead of a frig ? I ask because I'd guess that used refrigerators would be easier/cheaper to find than used upright freezers. In our area, people tend to keep their freezers and don't care all that much about their looks. They often are in a utility room or in the garage.
I'm guessing this has something to do with the defrost function.
Thanks !


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## selpo (Nov 4, 2015)

rockethead26 said:


> Looks like it will be a great storage system. Just curious as to why both the SensorPush and the Zederkoff?


The sensor push is for just monitoring the temp and data log it with alarm for min and max. I don't think I will be maintain uniform humidity of 65Rh in the freezer, that is why I am going with air tight containers with individual humidity maintenance and control, hence a zederkoff in each container.


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## selpo (Nov 4, 2015)

Joe Sticks said:


> @selpo - why a freezer instead of a frig ? I ask because I'd guess that used refrigerators would be easier/cheaper to find than used upright freezers. In our area, people tend to keep their freezers and don't care all that much about their looks. They often are in a utility room or in the garage.
> I'm guessing this has something to do with the defrost function.
> Thanks !


The main reason to use a freezer is for the added insulation and cooling capacity and when you use an external temp controller and set it to 65F, the condenser is not going to cycle off and on as much as a fridge, helps reduce fluctuation in humidity and will last longer.


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## selpo (Nov 4, 2015)

ghe said:


> The only things I would suggest are make sure the containers are air tight and you might want to consider the Xikar Puro-Temp system with two or three sensors to monitor humidity and temperature. (Lifetime warranty.) Looks like you'll be able to store a lot of smokes!


Thank you, each air tight container will have its own hygrometer. If done right, it should hold about 100 boxes.


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## selpo (Nov 4, 2015)

StogieNinja said:


> Don't have any questions, but I'm excited for you. This is something I've been considering myself for some time. Separating temp control and rh balancing makes things more stable.


Thank you, I hope this works.


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## selpo (Nov 4, 2015)

WABOOM said:


> that's gonna be a hell of a set up.


Thank you.


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## rockethead26 (Mar 31, 2016)

selpo said:


> The sensor push is for just monitoring the temp and data log it with alarm for min and max. I don't think I will be maintain uniform humidity of 65Rh in the freezer, that is why I am going with air tight containers with individual humidity maintenance and control, hence a zederkoff in each container.


Ahh, makes perfect sense. Looking forward to seeing the finished product.


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## greenmonster714 (Jun 9, 2016)

I had to hit the follow this thread tab on this one. I excited to see how this works out for ya. Please post lotsof pics on your progress and thanks for sharing this great project with us.

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## selpo (Nov 4, 2015)

greenmonster714 said:


> I had to hit the follow this thread tab on this one. I excited to see how this works out for ya. Please post lotsof pics on your progress and thanks for sharing this great project with us.
> 
> Sent from my SM-J100VPP using Tapatalk


Thank you! All the stuff are in and set up! Just placed my first storage box of cigars in and so far so good! I will definitely post pics and instructions to make it easy for anyone else to do it along with a cost breakdown as well as weekly updates.


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## greenmonster714 (Jun 9, 2016)

selpo said:


> Thank you! All the stuff are in and set up! Just placed my first storage box of cigars in and so far so good! I will definitely post pics and instructions to make it easy for anyone else to do it along with a cost breakdown as well as weekly updates.


I have a large chest freezer that doesn't work amymore. Was thinking of turning it upright and installing shelves. It would need some ventilation and other stuff but maybe it would be doable.

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## Rondo (Sep 9, 2015)

@selpo
When I grow up, I want to be just like you. :bowdown:


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## selpo (Nov 4, 2015)

So....
The freezer came in on Tuesday and set it up in the garage. I had received the Johnson control A419 earlier and had it set up already to temp of 65F with a differential of 1 degree, which means it will kick the freezer on if the temp reaches 66F inside.

Ran the temp probe thru the hinge side of the freezer door and stuck a few Command cord organization clips to the inside wall of the freezer and plugged the power cord to the outlet in the A419. 

Initial temp inside the freezer was about 90F and cooled down to 62F pretty quick. I had the sensor push Bluetooth enabled temp and humidity monitor/data logger right on the middle shelf of the freezer. 

I had it in my wineador for a week and made sure it was calibrated correctly. Noticed that the temp sensor of the A419 was off by about 3F and so raised the set temp to 68F and monitored for a day.

The humidity inside the freezer fluctuated between 80Rh when it was off to 60Rh while running but the temp was pretty steady, 65-67F. I tried a few trays of KL but did not make a difference.

I filled up a 41.2qt Iris airtight container with my cigars and surprisingly, it held 20 boxes- granted some of them were 10 count. I placed them upright and labelled each of them at the top with the name, box code and yr so it will be pretty quick in and out of the box when needed. Made a master list of what is in each container as well.

I went with this container as I wanted to maximize use of space inside the freezer and this has dimensions of tad under 24 x 18 x 8 and with freezer shelf dimensions of 26 x 18.5 x 9.5, it was perfect. Placed the sensor push inside the container and placed it in the top shelf of the freezer with 3 Boveda 65Rh packs. Initial readings were 74F and 65Rh and after being in the freezer for about 4 hours- steady at 66F and 65Rh. 

Just placed my second container of cigars in this morning - mostly cabinets and this holds 19 boxes.
The freezer can hold 4 41.2 Qt containers and 1 63 Qt container and so should be able to store 100 boxes comfortably.
I am thinking of getting a sensor push for each container and that way, I will not have to open the freezer to check the humidity.

I am going to Velcro the temp sensor to the side of the freezer and add some command cord management clips to the outside as well.

I will post weekly readings for a couple of weeks and hopefully, this should be stress free large storage for hot and humid climates.

The total cost will be right at $1000 including the 4 more sensor push sensors.


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## gtechva (Mar 9, 2014)

Looking forward to the final count of sticks. Very nice.


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## MrCrowley39 (Mar 29, 2016)

I just showed the wife, she gave me the "look" and told me to walk away! I'm gonna go out on a limb here and think she's telling me "NO"! On the plus side this looks great, can't wait to see some data and the progress of filling it. Thanks for sharing the progress. 

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## justncredibl3 (Jul 3, 2016)

Subbed! 

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## Chris80 (Sep 19, 2015)

In curious how you feel about the sensor push. So can you monitor the freezer while you are not home?


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## selpo (Nov 4, 2015)

Chris80 said:


> In curious how you feel about the sensor push. So can you monitor the freezer while you are not home?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


For now, it is only bluetooth enabled but they are coming out with a wifi base which will enable you to monitor from anywhere. The existing sensor push will link to the wifi base. I cannot wait!


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## Chris80 (Sep 19, 2015)

selpo said:


> For now, it is only bluetooth enabled but they are coming out with a wifi base which will enable you to monitor from anywhere. The existing sensor push will link to the wifi base. I cannot wait!


That would make the most sense! I would live to be able to keep an eye on my sticks while at work.

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## selpo (Nov 4, 2015)

Here are the readings for the last 24 hrs and a photo of the freezador with velcroed temp control on the outside wall.


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## Chris80 (Sep 19, 2015)

Man if that isn't the cleanest corner of a garage on the planet...


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## Chris80 (Sep 19, 2015)

Jk looks good!


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## Rondo (Sep 9, 2015)

Beauteous.
_And_ you have room for an adjacent one for the spring.


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## selpo (Nov 4, 2015)

Rondo said:


> Beauteous.
> _And_ you have room for an adjacent one for the spring.


LOL! I wish!!


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## Chris80 (Sep 19, 2015)

Cmon man it's been 4 days....how's the freezador holding up??


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## selpo (Nov 4, 2015)

Sorry for the delay...

Been holding up fine...

Got the other two sensor push in and have been calibrating all three with a Boveda calibration kit...

maintaining 65/65 like a champ...

will post some screenshots of weekly readings soon....

Now to fill up that puppy>>>


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## Chris80 (Sep 19, 2015)

That's awesome


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## rockethead26 (Mar 31, 2016)

Thanks for keeping us up to date on your project, @selpo. I may have to go this route instead of a wineador before next summer as my room hits 80-85 degrees in the summer. I guess wineadors can't really handle more than about 10° temp differential so maintaining 65° without condensation would be near impossible. I'll be following along with your adventure.


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## selpo (Nov 4, 2015)

Here is the one week update.

No issues with maintaining humidity and temp but am glad I calibrated all three sensor push, they were off between 2 and 3%. My second container is almost full and soon will start on the third. 

I also noticed that if I open the freezer even for a few seconds to swap out the hygrometer when I was calibrating them, the humidity causes significant condensation on the freezer coils which are underneath each shelf. It does not really matter as these are airtight containers but am wondering if a frost free freezer may work better- the concern there is the defrost cycle and how that is triggered.


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## MrCrowley39 (Mar 29, 2016)

selpo said:


> Here is the one week update.
> 
> No issues with maintaining humidity and temp but am glad I calibrated all three sensor push, they were off between 2 and 3%. My second container is almost full and soon will start on the third.
> 
> I also noticed that if I open the freezer even for a few seconds to swap out the hygrometer when I was calibrating them, the humidity causes significant condensation on the freezer coils which are underneath each shelf. It does not really matter as these are airtight containers but am wondering if a frost free freezer may work better- the concern there is the defrost cycle and how that is triggered.


I've been thinking about reusing an old apartment size fridge (once I find one in my price range) in a similar fashion to this.

I don't think the condensation will be an issue with this setup, and a frost free version, I think would have been extra money spent on a feature you actually aren't using.

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## letterkenny1 (Aug 7, 2016)

Selpo very inspiring idea .can I ask freezer set 65f external temperature can you explain this to me , I take it freezer is switched on thanks 

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## selpo (Nov 4, 2015)

letterkenny1 said:


> Selpo very inspiring idea .can I ask freezer set 65f external temperature can you explain this to me , I take it freezer is switched on thanks
> 
> Sent from my SM-G901F using Tapatalk


I am using the Johnson A419 external temp controller and it helps you customize the temp setting. So, since I have it set at 65F, whenever the temp inside the freezer goes above 65F, the power to the freezer comes on and it cools until the temp falls below 65 and once the temp probe inside the freezer senses it, it turns the freezer off.

For more detail, see my first post and the setup post.


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## letterkenny1 (Aug 7, 2016)

And what happens if temperature falls like uk where 50 f is likely had you ever known anyone to use a panel heater to raise temp 

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## selpo (Nov 4, 2015)

letterkenny1 said:


> And what happens if temperature falls like uk where 50 f is likely had you ever known anyone to use a panel heater to raise temp
> 
> Sent from my SM-G901F using Tapatalk


I live in Texas, no need for heater. In the winter, it does get into the 40's and 50's but that is why I went with a freezer, better insulation, so the temp inside should not drop that much as long as I am not constantly opening and closing the door. This is mainly for my long term storage.


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## selpo (Nov 4, 2015)

Another weekly update- going strong!


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## UBC03 (Nov 18, 2015)

I don't say this very often. I'm thoroughly impressed.

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## Dual-500 (Feb 20, 2012)

Very nice and kudos for thinking outside the box. I setup a Freon based system almost 3 years ago. First wineador was an Avanti 28 bottle thermo-electric. It failed at 2 years, so in search of reliability and longevity I setup a compressor rig in a 36 bottle beverage cooler. Works great - no turning back. Have a look at my setup, it differs from yours a bit. For condensation, perhaps fans on evaporator coils and some media inside to absorb excess moisture. Try a couple of pans of dry kitty litter.

http://www.cigarforums.net/forums/v...5-wineador-trials-tribulations-stage-2-a.html


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## Dual-500 (Feb 20, 2012)

^^^ A bit more info. Fans on the evaporator coils serve twopurposes, well really one purpose - but accomplish it in two ways. Stabilize the RH swings during cooling cycles. This is done in two ways: 1) Blowing on the evaporator, the air flowprevents accumulation of moisture, thus preventing downward swings (which inyour setup doesn't matter), 2) Shortenthe run time duration of the cooling cycle be coupling the cold evaporator tothe air or internal environment of the cooler.

In my setup, I did that to reduce RH swings (plummeting lower) during cooling cycles, I further mitigate it byisolating the cigars within the humidor inside the cooler. Humidor circulation fan shuts off duringcooling cycles, and remains off for ~3 minutes after cooling cycle compressorrun stage shuts off. The circulation fans on the evaporator fans run in a blow down cycle that lasts for the 3 minutes the humidor fan is shut off. So the evaporator plate fans run to absorb any moisture that may have formed onthe evaporator plate and return the environment within the cooler to nominal RH value.

In your setup using evaporator coil/plate fans will mitigate moisture collecting on the coils and also shorten run time of the cooling cycle which will also help eliminate the moisture collecting on them. Finally, adding some dry media to the environment will absorb excess moisture during the warmer summer months when it's cooling. Just take the mediaout when humidity starts to climb and dry it out.

It's all simple physics. I thank KaChong and his work and posts which was very helpful. My setup is working well, only needsmaintenance for RH 3 to 4 times a year - sometimes spray media in the winter to add RH and in the peak summer air conditioning months sometimes media needs to be pulled to dry out a bit, when it's absorbing excess moisture. I run it set to 67F year round with a 2F hysteresis swing to limit number of cooling cycles.

Please do post your development and results - makes for interesting reading.

Well worth the effort. For my rig, now I use 1 gallon freezer bags with a large 65% Boveda pack in them to age cigars, keep them outside the humidor in the cooler. Then, the smoke ready inventory resides within the 7 drawer humidor. I'm going to remove the freezer packs and use the space they occupy outside the humidor for aging. The packs just aren't needed fortemperature stabilization.

In the end, the setup was well worth the effort, remains pretty solid at 67% RH in the humidor and the cigars are maintaining very well and smoke great. Burn is good and draw is good, consistent. The aging works very well also - just did a box of Bolivar Belicosos Finos for a two year run, and they are yummy.


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## Uncle Clark's Collection (Oct 12, 2016)

Thank you for the "data" based post instead of the many "theory" based posts I have read about using a freezer. I am taking over my late uncles collection and need to move it from the coast (cool and moist) to the Central Valley area of California. It can be 105 degrees with single digit humidity in summer to mid 30's with high humidity in the winter. I have been researching the most economical way to store about 1500 sticks of vintage cigars and have been leaning toward the freezer conversion. I am VERY excited to see confirmation of my gut feeling through the data you have provided. Didn't want to screw his 40 year collection up. Thanks! Time to start my conversion.


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## Dual-500 (Feb 20, 2012)

^ Another aspect of using a regular freezer box is the door is closed solid, no light inside and the door is insulated, further reducing run time for compressor and overall cooling cycles. I've been considering putting a piece of insulating foam over the glass door of the beverage cooler I converted - will do that someday.


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## selpo (Nov 4, 2015)

Glad I am able to help other BOTL

Here are some monthly readings


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## selpo (Nov 4, 2015)

And container 1


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## yakattack (Mar 28, 2016)

If you don't mind me asking, how much would the module cost that your useing to regulate temperature. I have a small mini fridge I've been thinking of turning into a small storage spot. Or can you suggest a different time temperature regulating option?


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## csk415 (Sep 6, 2016)

yakattack said:


> If you don't mind me asking, how much would the module cost that your useing to regulate temperature. I have a small mini fridge I've been thinking of turning into a small storage spot. Or can you suggest a different time temperature regulating option?


Everything he used is listed in the 1st post.


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## DonMerlin (Oct 26, 2015)

I think I paid $90 ish when I turned a chest freezer into a kegorator. I believe they have them for refrigerators OR freezers but I'm not sure of what the difference is.


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## selpo (Nov 4, 2015)

yakattack said:


> If you don't mind me asking, how much would the module cost that your useing to regulate temperature. I have a small mini fridge I've been thinking of turning into a small storage spot. Or can you suggest a different time temperature regulating option?


The Johnson external control I used was about $75. There are cheaper modules but this was plug and play with digital controls and I am very happy with it.

I am not sure if it is worthwhile to try and convert a mini fridge as by the time you spend money on the external temp control, the containers, the hygrometers and the Boveda packs, I dont think the cost justifies the amount of storage space you will get.

Good luck!


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## Nova5 (Mar 22, 2015)

The Ol' A419. A favorite among Home Brewers to convert old fridges into fermentation chambers. Best place to have a unexpected blowoff is in a contained chamber. Old fridge is perfect.


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## Uncle Clark's Collection (Oct 12, 2016)

Alright, it's time to start ordering parts. I am going to use a different thermostat control that has two plugs so I can plug the freezer into one and a heating pad into the other for winter time. I will just have to be careful that they don't fight each other. The collection I am getting has 50-60 boxes plus about another 200 loose sticks. Any suggestions for storing the loose ones inside the Freezidor? I wish I could leave them out and build some pull out cedar drawers but I am afraid the humidity may fluctuate too much during the cooling cycle. So far my only plan was to store them in a couple 100count humidor boxes on one of the shelves. I'm still a little confused if I should go frost-free or standard on the freezer. I did see somewhere else were a guy put a drug store type humidifier in his that automatically turns on and off to maintain the correct humidity. I am open to any and all suggestions and want to do it right. I need to get started ASAP so I can get them home!


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## selpo (Nov 4, 2015)

Uncle Clark's Collection said:


> Alright, it's time to start ordering parts. I am going to use a different thermostat control that has two plugs so I can plug the freezer into one and a heating pad into the other for winter time. I will just have to be careful that they don't fight each other. The collection I am getting has 50-60 boxes plus about another 200 loose sticks. Any suggestions for storing the loose ones inside the Freezidor? I wish I could leave them out and build some pull out cedar drawers but I am afraid the humidity may fluctuate too much during the cooling cycle. So far my only plan was to store them in a couple 100count humidor boxes on one of the shelves. I'm still a little confused if I should go frost-free or standard on the freezer. I did see somewhere else were a guy put a drug store type humidifier in his that automatically turns on and off to maintain the correct humidity. I am open to any and all suggestions and want to do it right. I need to get started ASAP so I can get them home!


The only advantage of frost free freezer is the ability to adjust shelf height and the disadvantage is the defrost cycle- Most freezers, it is not based on presence of frost but the duration the freezer has run and not sure how hot it gets inside. I know someone in another forum is using FF and is happy - I have manual defrost and have not noticed any issues so far.

I still do not see how you will be able to maintain humidity inside the freezer with a passive or active humidification system without having serious fluctuations-20% swings or more. Unless you have a data logger inside the freezer, it would be difficult to notice. I would recommend storing even your singles in an airtight tupperware with some cedar strips and 2 way humidification system, not sure how wood humidifiers will do inside a freezer even with an external temp controller.

Good luck!


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## Dual-500 (Feb 20, 2012)

^ What he said.


I use a cedar humidor inside a converted 36 bottle Freon cooled beverage cooler. But, the humidification media resides outside the humidor in the cooler chamber. Regular table top humidors should work fine inside it. Suggest putting a pan or two of media within the freezer compartment to maintain RH there as well - no reason not to, you never would want if filled beyond that anyway for air flow.


May do, after doing the research building my setup regarding downward RH swings during cooling cycles (yes I know out-of-the-box thermoelectric is less than out-of-the-box Freon cooled) - I would never put cigars directly inside a cooler. Yes, I know many do - I would not. 


Be sure and post some pictures.


FWIW, I'm changing out media (Kitty Litter) in my setup today and changing from the bread/meat loaf size pans to a couple of tupper ware pans that are wider and a bit larger. Each one holds 2.5 lbs of media, so there will be a full 5 lb bag of media in the system now. I expect the same results, with perhaps a bit less maintenance.


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## Uncle Clark's Collection (Oct 12, 2016)

Do you have a preference for the media outside the containers in the freezidor?


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## Dual-500 (Feb 20, 2012)

^ I use Ultra Pearls at the recommendation of another member. I was having problems with a couple of Hydra SM powered humidifiers and Ron suggested the Ultra Pearls that he has used for years. I was skeptical at first - not anymore. Pictured is a 5lb bag. I can't say this is a preference, it's the only KL I have used, it works and works well for me - so I haven't looked any further.










I put 2.5 lbs in each pan and slide them in at the bottom of the cooler. Works mucho good.


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## selpo (Nov 4, 2015)

Uncle Clark's Collection said:


> Do you have a preference for the media outside the containers in the freezidor?


There is really no reason to use any Humidifying medium outside the containers unless you plan on keeping some cigar boxes by themselves which I would not recommend. I tried using 5lbs of KL and kept a data logger outside the container and the Rh swings were pretty extreme. Now, I just use 2 Boveda 65Rh packs and a data logger in each 42 qt airtight container and they hold about 20 boxes each.


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## Uncle Clark's Collection (Oct 12, 2016)

I think I am going to do a combination of both. The bins with the Boveda and separate monitor for the boxes of cigars. I have at least 200 sticks that are loose which I plan on storing in my 2 cedar desktop humidors similar to the pictures above. Because they are not air tight, it seems like I need some moisture on the outside of them to keep the freezer cycle from drawing the moisture out of them?


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## Dual-500 (Feb 20, 2012)

^ Simple physics says the better environment you have the conventional wood boxes in the better. Media within the freezer compartment will lend itself to that end.

Selpro has a good point though, he doesn't recommend storing sticks in open drawers in any type of cooling system. I agree, the RH swings are huge and I mean huge during cooling cycles. Things can be done to mitigate the downward swings using auxillary fans and timers which are all inexpensive - particularly within the context of the value of the stash. I did about two weeks' of testing when I setup my Freon based beverage cooler conversion. Went from a thermoelectric wine cooler conversion to the Freon cooled beverage cooler setup I have now. Had to rework things and do a little creative design to mitigate the s downward RH swings during cooling cycles.


When I first setup the thermoelectric wine cooler, there was no remote temperature control and no outboard RH monitoring capability and I didn't do any testing as the generally accepted consensus it that Thermoelectric rigs work ok for cigar storage. Knowing what I know now, I would do it without remote temperature control, and still wouldn't store anything directly inside the compartment.


I'm really interested in selpro's data loggers. My setup has real time displays on it for temp/RH but no data logging capability. Data logging is really the way to do it right.


Mr. Selpro, does the application work on a desktop PC? I have iPhone, iPad, and desktop PC - iPad and iPhone are on WiFi at home router along with the PC in the LAN. Do you know? Thanks.


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## selpo (Nov 4, 2015)

Dual-500 said:


> ^ Simple physics says the better environment you have the conventional wood boxes in the better. Media within the freezer compartment will lend itself to that end.
> 
> Selpro has a good point though, he doesn't recommend storing sticks in open drawers in any type of cooling system. I agree, the RH swings are huge and I mean huge during cooling cycles. Things can be done to mitigate the downward swings using auxillary fans and timers which are all inexpensive - particularly within the context of the value of the stash. I did about two weeks' of testing when I setup my Freon based beverage cooler conversion. Went from a thermoelectric wine cooler conversion to the Freon cooled beverage cooler setup I have now. Had to rework things and do a little creative design to mitigate the s downward RH swings during cooling cycles.
> 
> ...


I am sure there are many available which are wifi based and have desktop apps for PC and Mac but the one I use is called Sensor Push, bluetooth based system with iPhone app and have been very happy. you can set alerts for min and max temp and humidity where it will send you a push notification and any time there is a temp or Rh fluctuation of 0.2 or more, it records the data. Wifi capability coming soon per the company. I think this cannot be beat for the cost and convenience, once it becomes wifi enabled.


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## selpo (Nov 4, 2015)

And.... for a freezer your size, @Dual-500, you are using 5lbs of KL and if you extrapolate it to a large upright freezer, it is a minimum of 25lbs, more likely 40lbs, to achieve the same effect. As long as the loss of space is not an issue, I would say give it a try @Uncle Clark's Collection- Good luck!


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## Dual-500 (Feb 20, 2012)

You may be at the sweet spot already with the data loggers. Thinking about it a little more and some online research - everything else costs more $. A quick check on the iPad once a week or so is really all that's needed.

Can they be setup for sampling rates? How long will they record for before filling up or over writing the data?

FWIW: Media in a freezer may be used as a desiccant only - i.e. Only to dry the air to mitigate/eliminate condensation and/or mold. Thinking through that a bit more - speculation. I have "0" experience with a box that large, so maybe I'll just STFU. 

Thanks for you patience, understanding & assistance.


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## Dual-500 (Feb 20, 2012)

I went ahead and ordered a couple of the sensorpush data loggers - thinking they'll be great. Read a little more about them, they'll store at least 20 days of data. Did a next day at Amazon for them, so they could arrive as soon as tomorrow.

My setup went completely out of whack when I changed the media out. I washed it in a screen strainer to remove fine dust particles. Dried in the oven at 325 for a couple of hours in large stainless steel bowles. RH still climbs even with only one pan inside, so it must need more drying. I'll update the build thread once I figure it out.

House is 45% RH @ 75F inside. Rule of thumb is RH doubles with every 20F decrease in temperature. Or, 5% per degree F. Cooling to 68F right now so ambient air will raise ~35% to reflect the 7F temperature drop or be 75-80% which is what I'm seeing.

The media right now needs to be absorbing moisture and it's probably not going to dry out enough sitting on top of the cooler in the room - back into the oven tonight.


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## selpo (Nov 4, 2015)

I have four of them and you can calibrate them as well. Mine were off about 2-3% each. Now. I can see all four instant readings in one screen and when I need to see the trend, just check on each sensor individually.

You will like them.


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## Dual-500 (Feb 20, 2012)

Yeah, I do believe I will like them. Need to get the new batch of KL dried out and get things settled back down in my setup. LOL!

Thanks for sharing expertise. I'll post results on the build thread.


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## Dual-500 (Feb 20, 2012)

My math was AFU.

45% ambient at 75F corrected to 68F goes like this:

45% RH x 35% = 15.75% RH + 45% RH = 60.75% RH. Which means, the media is still too damp, but still needs a bit of moisture to bring things up from 60.75% RH corrected.

I hope this makes sense.


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## Uncle Clark's Collection (Oct 12, 2016)

Thank you all for the advice! I have ordered everything except the storage bins because I don't have a freezer yet and want to get the correct size. I ordered slightly different items and will post pics once I get it all in. I have decided to store the boxes of cigars like selpo. I will do a blend of selpo and Dual-500 for the loose sticks. Going to put them in my cedar lined humidors then place those inside bins with Boveda both inside the humidors and inside the bins. I may still have to put some media on the outside of the bins but inside the freezer to attempt to keep some moisture outside the boxes. Please comment if you think I am effing up here! So far I have only used the forum from my iPad. I may have to switch to my desktop to add pics. Once again, I really appreciate the advice and welcome any criticism to my approach.


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## Dual-500 (Feb 20, 2012)

^ Don't be afraid to step outside the box and experiment. When doing the initial setup on my rig I looked at several build threads and borrowed from them all. A thread by a member named Kachong comes to mind as it was particularly useful. He did plenty of research and had lots of science in his build using a freon based cooling system. I ran my second system, the current one, about two weeks and did plenty of testing as I developed the configuration and solution - fans, timers, etc. I suggest you do the same - set it up in a mock up and test everything first.

I got the sensorpush sensors today. Simple to setup on iPad and they work great. One inside the humidor and one in the cooler


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## Dual-500 (Feb 20, 2012)

selpo said:


> Another weekly update- going strong!


What application are you using for the graphing of the data loggers downloads. I messed around a little with Excel last night and it looks promising. The charts you posted are nice looking.


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## selpo (Nov 4, 2015)

Dual-500 said:


> What application are you using for the graphing of the data loggers downloads. I messed around a little with Excel last night and it looks promising. The charts you posted are nice looking.


It is the sensor push App- when you click on the instant readings, it will take you to another screen where you have the option to look at it by hour, day, week, month and year.

If you click configure at the top, you can rename the sensor as well as set alerts and calibrate adjustments as well.


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## Dual-500 (Feb 20, 2012)

Ok, I have the app on an iPad. Are you doing screen shots or in addition to the raw data export will it export the graphs as well?


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## selpo (Nov 4, 2015)

I use screenshots to post but it can also export data as a CSV file which should be able to be used in Excel.


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## Uncle Clark's Collection (Oct 12, 2016)

Most of the parts came. I got a 21 cubic foot freezer off Craigslist, a heating/cooling dual purpose theremostat, a home brewers heating pad, the same data logger that was recommended, a 4 sensor humidity/temp monitor for the different bins, the same weathertight bins that were recommended, and the calibration Bovida pack. One sensor was 1% off so that is all adjusted. I'm waiting for 2 more bins to fill up the space as best as I can. I think I have more cigars than room in the freezer! I will put it all together then post pics...getting excited! Thank you for all the advice!


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## Dual-500 (Feb 20, 2012)

^^^ Start a thread on it.


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## MrCrowley39 (Mar 29, 2016)

MrCrowley39 said:


> I just showed the wife, she gave me the "look" and told me to walk away! I'm gonna go out on a limb here and think she's telling me "NO"! On the plus side this looks great, can't wait to see some data and the progress of filling it. Thanks for sharing the progress.
> 
> Sent From My Samsung Galaxy Tab S2 Using Tapatalk


I can't believe my wife caved! A couple weeks ago she started asking questions about my setup and if I had any room for more cigars. I told her I have a little space left but I'm almost at capacity. She remembered this thread and said well maybe it's time you bought a freezer and converted it into cigar storage. So I'm on the look-out for a gently used upright freezer. Thanks again @selpo for sharing this awesome idea.

Sent from my SM-T710 using Tapatalk


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## selpo (Nov 4, 2015)

Glad to be of help!

An update and a couple of suggestions- I also got the Wifi Gateway from sensor push and now can check my readings from anywhere. The only downside is that the wireless gateway needs to be within the Bluetooth range of the sensors which in actuality is only 30-40 feet within the freezer. I have 5 in the freezador and one in my wineador but since they are about 100 feet apart, I have to use Bluetooth to connect to my one in the wineador. I did find another sensor which is wifi based, look into it

Monitor and Find Everything from the Internet - Wireless Sensor Tags

Also, would recommend an automatic defrost freezer if you like the convenience of adjustable shelves. Mine is manual defrost and those almost always have fixed shelves and the containers I specified do fit pretty good with very little loss of storage space but it is something to consider. The only thing is I am not sure if the defrost cycle will automatically run and if it does, what happens to the temps inside.

Good luck! All my containers are full already and now I am filling up the door shelves!!


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## LeatherNeck (Feb 8, 2017)

Show us a picture or it ain't true! :nerd2:


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## Bird-Dog (Oct 16, 2009)

LeatherNeck said:


> Show us a picture or it ain't true! :nerd2:


How many does he need?

http://www.cigarforums.net/forums/vb/general-cigar-discussion/230609-freezador.html#post4103258


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## LeatherNeck (Feb 8, 2017)

LeatherNeck said:


> Show us a picture or it ain't true! :nerd2:


Seriously! I would like to see the finished product because I was just thinking this morning about doing this very thing. I have a side-by-side and was looking for info to see if it would work. Any pointers since you've got yours up and running?


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## scott1256ca (Jan 4, 2017)

I'm wondering what kind of cycle times you guys are seeing? And can you tie it to external temp a bit?
I mean, at 65F ambient obviously you won't be cycling on and off at all. 
At 70F ambient what is the avg. compressor on/off time?
What does the cycle look like at 75F ambient?

I'm asking because my understanding is that the compressors aren't going to do well in short quick cycles, which is part of the reason that most fridges have a 4 or 5 degree hysteresis. But most fridges run at 40F - 45F or so internal which means they would need to cycle a lot more frequently than when running @ an internal temp of 65F, but the compressor would be on for a very brief time. I'm wondering then if the total cycle may be small enough that you won't wear out the compressor.  I'm not sure what the hysteresis looks like on a freezer.

You people who are doing this also have the option of setting the hysteresis higher, like 3 degrees from on to off. In case readers aren't sure what that means, it means that the compressor would turn on at 66F but not turn off again until internal hit 63F, or something similar. Since all your cigars are in containers anyway, the internal temp of those containers would be unlikely to cycle by even half that. Have you tried that, or don't like the idea?

I would also think how full the fridge or freezer is would affect the cycle time. I mean if you are cooling mostly air, the cycle time would be much longer than if you have it stuffed mostly with boxes and a small amount of air. Even with fans.

It is also possible that your controllers have some setting such that the cooling cycle would be on for some minimum amount of time. Like 60s min. before shutting off again. Ever considered using that? Provided it is an option with your controller, of course.


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## UBC03 (Nov 18, 2015)

LeatherNeck said:


> Seriously! I would like to see the finished product because I was just thinking this morning about doing this very thing. I have a side-by-side and was looking for info to see if it would work. Any pointers since you've got yours up and running?


Did you check out the link @curmudgeonista put up..kind of has a run down of the process.

Sent from my SM-G925V using Tapatalk


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## LeatherNeck (Feb 8, 2017)

UBC03 said:


> Did you check out the link @curmudgeonista put up..kind of has a run down of the process.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G925V using Tapatalk


Was it was on this thread? I don't recall seeing it anywhere (here or elsewhere). On this thread, I saw the begining date being 2016 so I skipped to the last page. If you would good sir, please light the way.


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## UBC03 (Nov 18, 2015)

Post one from August has what he used for the original set up. Then it goes through the process.

Sent from my SM-G925V using Tapatalk


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## selpo (Nov 4, 2015)

LeatherNeck said:


> Seriously! I would like to see the finished product because I was just thinking this morning about doing this very thing. I have a side-by-side and was looking for info to see if it would work. Any pointers since you've got yours up and running?


As @UBC03 said, the beginning of this thread explains how this was all set up.

Here is a current photo


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## selpo (Nov 4, 2015)

scott1256ca said:


> I'm wondering what kind of cycle times you guys are seeing? And can you tie it to external temp a bit?
> I mean, at 65F ambient obviously you won't be cycling on and off at all.
> At 70F ambient what is the avg. compressor on/off time?
> What does the cycle look like at 75F ambient?
> ...


I use the Johnson A419 ext temp controller and I can customize quite a few settings. Currently, in the summer, it cycles probably about every 30 min and is on for about 5 min and in the winter, it cycles about 5 min every 2 hours. I can set the on and off temps and I have it set to come on at 66F and to shut off at 64F but can do as wide as 70f to 60f.

As posted above, my freezer is pretty full.


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## scott1256ca (Jan 4, 2017)

Ah thanks. 5 min. on time should be just fine.


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## LeatherNeck (Feb 8, 2017)

Other than if it were filled with various prime cuts of meat (preferably the red kind), that is the most beautiful freezer I could imagine. Well done!


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## MrCrowley39 (Mar 29, 2016)

selpo said:


> As @UBC03 said, the beginning of this thread explains how this was all set up.
> 
> Here is a current photo


Were you able to get the estimated 100 boxes in those bins? Just wondering because I've been looking at 12.5 - 16 cu ft freezers. My current setup can probably max out at 350 (currently has about 275) and it's 2.5 cu ft. So I should be able to reach 1500 sticks if I went with a 12.5 cu ft.

Sent from my SM-T710 using Tapatalk


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## selpo (Nov 4, 2015)

Yes, about 17-20 boxes in each small containers and about 24 in the big one. I also have 6 boxes in two of the door shelves. FYI, I do have some 10 count boxes in there and 2 50 cabs.


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## MrCrowley39 (Mar 29, 2016)

selpo said:


> Yes, about 17-20 boxes in each small containers and about 24 in the big one. I also have 6 boxes in two of the door shelves. FYI, I do have some 10 count boxes in there and 2 50 cabs.


Wow, that's fantastic!

Sent from my SM-T710 using Tapatalk


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## MrCrowley39 (Mar 29, 2016)

Well I finally found a used freezer in my price range, picked this up for $225(CDN), it's a 17 cu ft. frost free. Considering my stash barely fills 2.5 cu ft I have some buying to do! Just taking my time getting it going, using baking soda to help remove any food odors before I add my sticks in the containers I picked up.
















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## Dual-500 (Feb 20, 2012)

^^^ Very nice, suggest you start your own thread on it out of respect to the OP.


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## selpo (Nov 4, 2015)

Dual-500 said:


> ^^^ Very nice, suggest you start your own thread on it out of respect to the OP.


No worries at all from my standpoint- post away!!

The freezer looks good, check out wirelesstag.net for wifi enabled hygro and thermometer- an alternative to sensor push, which I am using and happy with but the limitation is that the sensors connect to the wifi gateway using only bluetooth and the range is dismal.

Let me know if there is anything I can help you with @MrCrowley39.


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## MrCrowley39 (Mar 29, 2016)

Dual-500 said:


> ^^^ Very nice, suggest you start your own thread on it out of respect to the OP.


I was actually thinking of doing that, maybe calling it Freezadore Part II or Freezadore "Canadian" edition lol. Once I have more pictures and steps complete though.

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk


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## MrCrowley39 (Mar 29, 2016)

selpo said:


> No worries at all from my standpoint- post away!!
> 
> The freezer looks good, check out wirelesstag.net for wifi enabled hygro and thermometer- an alternative to sensor push, which I am using and happy with but the limitation is that the sensors connect to the wifi gateway using only bluetooth and the range is dismal.
> 
> Let me know if there is anything I can help you with @MrCrowley39.


Thanks! This project is 100% inspired by this thread. Can't wait until it's fully operational. I will definitely let you know if I run into any issues. Cheers 

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk


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## Dual-500 (Feb 20, 2012)

MrCrowley39 said:


> I was actually thinking of doing that, maybe calling it Freezadore Part II or Freezadore "Canadian" edition lol. Once I have more pictures and steps complete though.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk


These are fun projects. And, having good storage for the inventory is the only way to go. Really nice to just go pull a stick out and it's in perfect condition - great when a guest is over to be able to grab a stick that best suits the occasion.

The science involved is really interesting as well.


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