# I feel betrayed, would you?



## Addiction (May 8, 2007)

OK long story short, every one knows the long standing love affair I had with my local B&M. I mean I was posting here for a while before I started buying and I knew that I wasn't going to get the best price buying at my retailer. I knew my selection would certainly be more limited buying from him. But I kept buying because I wanted to support local business, in fact I spent about $4,000 with him last year. It used to be that when I went in a store I would only buy stuff he didn't carry because I felt like I was cheating.

In the last three months this shop has instilled a policy saying you have to buy something to smoke when you come in there and you can only smoke what you buy there. And Sunday the owner let me know that starting in the next week he planned to enforce this policy with me when he had previously told me I was immune.

I don't get it. I go out of my way to buy things there, hell without exception I'd be quite happy to never buy another NC again but I'm trying to support the mans business. But you would think if I walk in a store and take $1000-$1500 worth of product every three months they would slide me a pass and be happy to have me there, maybe even be appreciative of having me there.

I'm not even in there talking to people about my CCs, no one there thats not a stogie member knows what I'm smoking because when asked I simply say Monte, or Partagas and they are too busy asking me if I like the Montecristo Platinum to pursue it any further but he says because people look up to me that I am supporting the myth that Cuban cigars are better. First off if you look up to me, man are your values off. Secondly as long as they come to his store and buy what does he care if they think cubans are better.

I have preached the gospel of his store to people, I've organized events for him, I've basically done every thing I can do to make a business I own no parts of be successful. And he is unhappy that every time I come through the door I don't buy a $10 cigar?

Am I overreacting? I don't begrudge the man a chance to make a buck, but jeez does he have to squeeze every dollar and turn it into 108 pennies?


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## King Leonidas (Apr 12, 2008)

WOW!!! you're budget scares me.Ever thought about opening your own shop?(that will teach him).:chk


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## hotreds (Dec 4, 2007)

I suggest you tell him what you just told us and see how he reacts, and proceed accordingly.


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## n3uka (Nov 13, 2006)

Dude, that sucks. What a crock. 

I even end up dropping some coin to support the guy when I meet Bryan there to smoke. Usually about $30 to $80. Guess I won't be doing that anymore.


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## burninator (Jul 11, 2006)

I like hotreds comment. Maybe the guy isn't even thinking that he may have insulted you. It may have never occured to him that your patronage is sincere, rather than simply a byproduct of your....ahem....obsession.


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## andrewsutherland2002 (Feb 16, 2008)

I can see his point, but if you are spending that much on his merchandise then you ought to recieve a free pass. Tell him what you told us, he may understand.


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## Mr. Doug (Apr 22, 2007)

I'd talk to him...if he doesn't 'get it' than just stop buying everything else there. Just buy the $10 smoke you intend to light there, and let him figure out what he's done over the course of a few weeks.


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## roarknumber1 (Feb 7, 2008)

If it were me, I'd stop going there for a good six months, stop in sometime after that, but one cigar and leave. If he says something like "where have you been," you can explain why he has lost your business.


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## Addiction (May 8, 2007)

Mr. Doug said:


> I'd talk to him...if he doesn't 'get it' than just stop buying everything else there. Just buy the $10 smoke you intend to light there, and let him figure out what he's done over the course of a few weeks.


Actually I am going to talk to him about it. But I'm currently a place mentally where I wouldn't buy where I wouldn't buy rattle snake venom from him if I was stuck in a nest. He treated me like a business decision so I'll do the same and go where I both get more for my dollar and where my dollars are actually valued.


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## [OT] Loki (May 24, 2006)

i stopped going to my weekly hang out shop because the mananger wouldn't stop busting my balls...something he does with everyone but I told him i didn't like it. If i was you I'd say something, see what happens and go from there


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## GAW (May 25, 2007)

It's not clear to me Bryan exactly what he is concerned about - do you smoke Cuban cigars on the premises? If not he is way off base because you in essence are smoking cigars you have purchased there- in advance and abundantly! Doesn't seem like rational business behavior on his part.


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## Bax (Sep 12, 2007)

Mr. Doug said:


> I'd talk to him...if he doesn't 'get it' than just stop buying everything else there. Just buy the $10 smoke you intend to light there, and let him figure out what he's done over the course of a few weeks.


That's good advice. Let HIM see that he's made the mistake.


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## TonySmith (Apr 25, 2007)

Addiction said:


> Actually I am going to talk to him about it. But I'm currently a place mentally where I wouldn't buy where I wouldn't buy rattle snake venom from him if I was stuck in a nest. He treated me like a business decision so I'll do the same and go where I both get more for my dollar and where my dollars are actually valued.


Sure you're p'issed, you gave him your support monetary,and otherwise and the man crapped on you. I'd feel the same way. Stay away for while, and then when the feelings aren't as strong, then pay a visit.

You must have liked the place, give yourself some time and in the meantime fck him. :2


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## Addiction (May 8, 2007)

GAW said:


> It's not clear to me Bryan exactly what he is concerned about - do you smoke Cuban cigars on the premises? If not he is way off base because you in essence are smoking cigars you have purchased there- in advance and abundantly! Does't seem like rational business behavior on his part.


I do but I still buy NCs from him even tho I rarely smoke them. I also don't talk to anyone who isn't a CS member about what I smoke or buy out of respect I simply reply with a brand and tell the where that brand
is in the Humi.


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## Mullet (Oct 22, 2007)

Just for clarification, you smoke CC in his shop and he's afraid that by virtue of you being "the man", other people are going to start following your lead and ordering CC from the internet and stop frequenting his shop?

Is that his "argument?"


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## dwhitacre (Jan 2, 2008)

Talk to him if you want but bottom line is... Cut him off!!! That much business should make a dent in his wallet!!! 

I must qualify my comment: I am only seeing your side of the story and not his. He has made a policy and has the right to, as the store owner. You are a member of CS therefore I will believe most of what you tell me. This product my be harmful to women who are pregnant or may become pregnant. Side-effects my include...


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## ChasDen (Dec 12, 2007)

Quick answer to your question; Yes I would.

I window shop in many shops on a regular basis. I rarely purchase singles from any of them. I do take people with me that do and to me that’s my contribution to their livelihood. I do have 1 local shop that I do buy my pipe tobacco from and a lot of it btw and some supplies. I have bought a few pipes from them and occasionally will wonder in to the humidor and grab a few singles. Most of them refer to me by my first name and they treat me like a friend and not a customer. Every time I am there I buy a wooden box, regardless if I need it or not and regardless if I have bought anything else. They never have the boxes I really want  but to me thats my cover charge. 

Sounds like the owner is either a poor business man or has some other issue. 
From a pure business angle why would he risk angering a 4k a year customer?

Chas


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## CBI_2 (Sep 28, 2007)

Unfortunately sometimes people don't see the bigger picture. They only see what's right in front of them and fail to extrapolate that into a broader long range vision.

The sad part is many times they still can't see it when you try to show them.


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## icehog3 (Feb 20, 2005)

If he doesn't have any compassion for your situation, I would let him know he just lost 4K in business for the coming year. :2


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## GAW (May 25, 2007)

Well Bryan it may feel like betrayal to you, and with some justification, but by smoking cuban cigars there -from his point of view - you are at least covertly and even maybe somewhat overtly threatening his business model and longer term that might seem to him to be a larger risk than losing your business. He after all is the owner and bears all the risks, including potentially a somewhat complicated legal situation - nuff said!


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## kgraybill (Apr 18, 2008)

He must of had a bad day, I,m sure he does not want to risk losing your business and freindship.


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## Puffin Fresh (Nov 1, 2006)

Talk to him. I second or third or whatever that comment.

Also, I'd be tempted to give him his wish. When you want to smoke there, go buy a $2 cigar that looks like what you brought to smoke, then take your band off and smoke what you brought. Don't ever buy anything else besides the $2 cigars when you go to smoke there. Your $4000 per year will turn into about $75 per year and you'll be fulfilling his wish.


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## groogs (Oct 13, 2007)

I might talk to him if I were you, but me being me, I would never do buisness with him again. He has made it clear he only cares about his bottom line, not his customers. I would make an appearence from time to time and browse the Humi, then leave without buying anything. There are many other sources to get your cigars from.:2


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## jbock (Feb 22, 2007)

Although I would be upset if I were in your shoes, I also understand that owner's point of view.

In the event he gives you a free pass, he is showing preference and telling others, "Sorry, but you do not spend enough to be able to smoke your own stogies here."

That would be slapping the majority of his customers in the face. By instilling the policy universally, he is treating all of his customers equally, as he should.

It still sucks that you cannot bring in your own, but I respect the owner for being universally fair about his policy.

Jim


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## neoflex (Jan 3, 2006)

I agree with others and maybe sit him down and have a pow wow with him. I would simply say, well if these people look up to me, than what will they think when I no longer come around? It's pretty chitty and it sounds like he needs to be brought back to reality. When I was living on Long Island still the local I frequented the most would always, always let me hang out in the lounge whether or not I bought product from him and I was not even a member nor did he ever expect me to pay the $5 charge for non members to hang out and smoke there. There were times where I was just too busy and did not get to stop in for a couple months and as soon as I walked through the door he always made me feel welcome and asked me to hang out for awhile. This is why I would always recommend his shop to anyone and everyone who asked me where to go for smokes. 
Just sounds to me that this guy has his priorities screwed up and he's not looking at the big picture, especially with the budget you spend in his store. Bottom line is if you say F-off he will feel the loss of a single customer that spends $4,000+ in his store a year. He will have to pick up a bunch more customers who may only spend a couple hundred bucks a year with him to make up the difference.
Money issue aside he is just being an idiot. You sound like a real asset to his business and either way he is cutting off his nose to spite his face. I say if he does not come around than just write him off and put that budget toward other things since you really do not enjoy NCs that much anyway.


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## chenvt (Apr 12, 2008)

I think you should talk to him about it. His logic might be to make it fair for all and not play favorites. However, from a business sense, I can't imagine why he wouldn't want to please his most important customers.


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## neoflex (Jan 3, 2006)

jbock said:


> Although I would be upset if I were in your shoes, I also understand that owner's point of view.
> 
> In the event he gives you a free pass, he is showing preference and telling others, "Sorry, but you do not spend enough to be able to smoke your own stogies here."
> 
> ...


With the same thought, how would the other patrons know for sure unless they clearly know he is smoking a CC if he bought the product there or not?
Also, how are they to know their relationship. If I was the store owner and a great buddy of mine walked through the door, the last thing I am going to do is hold him to that policy. It's none of anyones business why I do not hold him to that standard. For all they know the guy could have pulled me from a burning car and saved my life. It's really none of their business and chances are they will never ask anyway. Sounds to me like Addiction has helped his business other than just being a loyal patron which makes it even more of a slap in the face IMHO.


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## Pampero (May 22, 2008)

You don't know me from Adam,and I'm taking you at your word, but the policy itself is foolish. I understand the difficulty and pressure of running a small retail business in today's world, but the whole role of a B&M is to hook customers on, and provide them with something they can't get on the internet; service, warmth, well kept and selected product and a place to smoke and talk. It really shouldn't make a difference if you buy $400 or $4000 dollars of cigars from him. He operates a smoke shop and his job, like every store's job in the world, is to build customer loyalty. Just by even saying something to you, and by verbally suggesting you have a pass where others don't, he sounds like a bit of a turd and somewhat classless. 

It adds insult to injury that you've been a good friend and a great customer, but I don't know that I'd be very sanguine about his just "giving you a pass." How about your friends that come in with you? Do that get a pass because they know you, or do you get to smoke for free and they get to buy a stick?
How does that wash? Not real neighborly and bad business actually. I'm sure this sounds corny, but before you can make a customer, you need to make a friend. Anyway, we're talking about the BOTL and all that.

The advice to stay away for a bit is good medicine. Frankly, he needs you more than you need him. And he needs to lighten up. He should put in a coffee machine and sell lattes and espressos with his cigars and encourage people to put in good quality hang time before he finds himself entirely alone and only in the cigarette business if you get my drift. People need to understand that the shop doesn't operate without making a profit, and they need to support a good man, a good store and a good style, and the store needs to provide all of those things. I don't even know why you would want to smoke there at this point, but assuming you do, either speak up or give it a rest. Or both. You can't do much wrong in this situation; it's all on the shop.


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## [OT] Loki (May 24, 2006)

the part that gets me is that you can't smoke anything you didn't buy there. As long as you're buying smokes there why does he care what you're smoking


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## Asher (Feb 4, 2008)

Addiction said:


> In the last three months this shop has instilled a policy saying you have to buy something to smoke when you come in there and you can only smoke what you buy there. And Sunday the owner let me know that starting in the next week he planned to enforce this policy with me when he had previously told me I was immune.


That really stinks. I always support my local B&M when I can, and I definitely buy something if I'm going to smoke there, but there are a couple of reasons why I might smoke something other than what I bought that day. One is that my local shop doesn't sell some of the cigars I like (Pepin/Tatuaje/etc., not to mention cigars they _can't_ sell). The other reason is that their walk-in is kept at 70% RH (and some of the stock might be just off the truck), and I prefer to let my cigars acclimate at 65% for a while. The way I figure it is that by buying a stick or three, I'm also buying a place to smoke and hang out. (That's no small thing in the middle of a Wisconsin winter!)

From your signature, it looks like you'll have a good place to enjoy a cigar soon without this hassle. There's no reason to pay a premium at a B&M store if this is how they treat you.


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## Fenwick (May 8, 2007)

I've never seen or heard of a shop with that kind of attitude. If I were you, I'd look for another shop ASAP.


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## desame.one (May 10, 2008)

Pampero said:


> You don't know me from Adam,and I'm taking you at your word, but the policy itself is foolish. I understand the difficulty and pressure of running a small retail business in today's world, but the whole role of a B&M is to hook customers on, and provide them with something they can't get on the internet; service, warmth, well kept and selected product and a place to smoke and talk. It really shouldn't make a difference if you buy $400 or $4000 dollars of cigars from him. He operates a smoke shop and his job, like every store's job in the world, is to build customer loyalty. Just by even saying something to you, and by verbally suggesting you have a pass where others don't, he sounds like a bit of a turd and somewhat classless.
> 
> It adds insult to injury that you've been a good friend and a great customer, but I don't know that I'd be very sanguine about his just "giving you a pass." How about your friends that come in with you? Do that get a pass because they know you, or do you get to smoke for free and they get to buy a stick?
> How does that wash? Not real neighborly and bad business actually. I'm sure this sounds corny, but before you can make a customer, you need to make a friend. Anyway, we're talking about the BOTL and all that.
> ...


Damn good post. This is good advice and wisdom right here.


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## Pampero (May 22, 2008)

Thank you, Desame.one. Cool handle.


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## ambientboy (Jun 10, 2007)

Frankly, my feeling is this: You're frequenting a store you probably would not shop at save to keep him in business...you respect a man in the profession and would like to help him shove others around on The Slope, as any BOTL would. 

The moment you lack reason to respect him, do you still have motivation to shop there? Would you not take your rather large business elsewhere to someone else who reciprocates the respect?

In any business, customer service and relations are what keep regulars, the steady money. If the service has been steadily dropping, it may be time to say goodbye to that B&M. He defied the very reason you shop there. Walk away, my friend. Find a new B&M, talk to the owner, and see if there's someone else you can support. If not, you can always smoke exclusively CC's. :ss


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## PUFFNMO (Mar 14, 2006)

I've been in the same situation, given a store my business and loyalty and gotten nothing in return. Very little or no discount, no privileges in spite of my spending a lot of money there on a regular basis, say $200 - $300 per month.

Finally I got enough of it. I stopped going, and don't miss the place at all. No reason to negotiate or have a heart to heart talk. Dump the guy. Larry.


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## lenguamor (Nov 23, 2006)

Pampero said:


> You don't know me from Adam,and I'm taking you at your word, but the policy itself is foolish. I understand the difficulty and pressure of running a small retail business in today's world, but the whole role of a B&M is to hook customers on, and provide them with something they can't get on the internet; service, warmth, well kept and selected product and a place to smoke and talk. It really shouldn't make a difference if you buy $400 or $4000 dollars of cigars from him. He operates a smoke shop and his job, like every store's job in the world, is to build customer loyalty. Just by even saying something to you, and by verbally suggesting you have a pass where others don't, he sounds like a bit of a turd and somewhat classless.
> 
> It adds insult to injury that you've been a good friend and a great customer, but I don't know that I'd be very sanguine about his just "giving you a pass." How about your friends that come in with you? Do that get a pass because they know you, or do you get to smoke for free and they get to buy a stick?
> How does that wash? Not real neighborly and bad business actually. I'm sure this sounds corny, but before you can make a customer, you need to make a friend. Anyway, we're talking about the BOTL and all that.
> ...


Best post.

You spend thousands with him, even participate in his business to the extent of helping organize events - and this is his response?

This guy's values are ****ed.

I've known people like him, who think the world serves them and not the other way around. In a businessman that is the mark of a cheat or a con man; in a governor it is the mark of a despot.

Like others have suggested, talk to him; but if it's me, knowing what I know about people like this, don't expect much and don't expect it for long, even if he does capitulate.

To me, a person is defined by his actions, not his words. This guy's actions already betrayed his smallness of mind and his lack of business sense.


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## travclem (Apr 22, 2008)

I'll be the black sheep of the group here...





:2:2


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## MarbleApe (May 12, 2008)

travclem said:


> I'll be the black sheep of the group here...
> 
> :2:2


Agreed! Tell him to dry up and blow away. Life is way to short to walk on egg shells around a guy that *you* *are making money*. He made the choice, now let him make up the lost fundage. It's not the 50's anymore and small businesses need you, not the other way around. Save money and buy online. I cut ties with my B&M owner and couldn't be happier with the choice to spend my money how I wish to spend it.


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## renton20-cl (Apr 1, 2008)

MarbleApe said:


> Agreed! Tell him to dry up and blow away. Life is way to short to walk on egg shells around a guy that *you* *are making money*. He made the choice, now let him make up the lost fundage. It's not the 50's anymore and small businesses need you, not the other way around. Save money and buy online. I cut ties with my B&M owner and couldn't be happier with the choice to spend my money how I wish to spend it.


It seems to me that I get what I pay for at my B&M. I get a warm place to hang out in the winter. I get the satisfaction of walking into a giant humidor and picking out whatever I feel like on any given day. Most of all though, I get a feeling of community, that I am wanted. If I did not have that feeling, I would stop going, simple as that. As others have said, they need you much more than you need them.


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## travclem (Apr 22, 2008)

Sorry if my last post was too colorful for CS... I have been at work for 16hours and needed to relieve some stress.:chk


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## Bruzee (May 24, 2008)

I cannot say anything someone else hasn't already said, so I won't. I _s_imply wanted to cast my vote as, yes, I would also feel betrayed.


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## Dgar (Sep 12, 2006)

If this is something he started enforcing a few months ago, and he has sort of given you a free pass of sort, I'm curious if maybe someone noticed your exempt status and complained about it. Rules should be rules for everyone, otherwise the owner is setting himself up for a real sticky situation.

This rule is not an unusual one, we have a few B/M's here with the same policy. Is it a smart business decision, I guess thats up to the owners.

You mention you could be quite happy never purchasing a Non cuban cigar again, problem solved, for you. The B/M owner will still have to decide if his new rules are working for him, my guess is they wont help.

I dont thinnk I would feel betrayed, dispointed in his decision but as long as the rule is being enforced on everyone I wouldnt take it personal.


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## wharfrathoss (Dec 27, 2006)

i'm a big fan of being honest & up front w/people so i'd sit down & talk w/him when there's not others around-maybe you can come to an agreement w/him, maybe not-never know unless you try


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## koolbooy (Dec 16, 2007)

What store is it? i think u live in VA? i wanna know! so i can keep my eyes open to situations like this .... and honestly i hope its not the same one i go to , that would suck  i like my local B&M 

good luck! speak from the heart, if that doesnt work then u gotta move on to the next one!


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## tsolomon (Feb 23, 2008)

You really need to figure out the why on this one. His view of why he needs to make this change is what you need to know before you can move on. He may be reacting to comments that other people have made. He might perceive some loss of business from your actions, or he is just having a rough time at work or home. There is usually a reason and once you know what it is, you can adjust your actions accordingly. The tough part is figuring out how to open a dialog with him that doesn't but him on the defensive.


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## mike32312 (Jan 26, 2006)

Just my :2 on this. If you consider this guy a "Friend", I'd have a sit down with him and discuss this situation explaining your point of view and listening to his. Than make your final decision from there." I'd be interested to hear Robs advice on this one since he is *MR. Customer Service* all the way.

Hope everyone was able to give some valuable input to your situation. We've all known you a long time and I know you'll take the high road on this situation. :tu


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## Blueface (May 28, 2005)

My :2.
Seems a "friend" would have/could have handled this differently, more discretely.
Even a business man, not a "friend", could have and should have handled it more discretely.
I can understand his rules. It's his joint.
However, he should be considerate of how his rules may impact some customers, particularly the ones that drop that kind of money.

I go to B&M's regularly.
I buy from them.
What I smoke in there means nothing to them.
What matters is the "I buy from them" part.
So, since you buy from him, and that seems to be an understatement with what you said you spend there, it shouldn't matter to him if your choice smoke for that day is the laundry list of "honey do's" your wife gave you or the shopping list from the supermarket.
He should merrily help you light that list for you.
I would let him know how you feel and what his words/actions meant.
If he is wise, he will reconsider his "new rule".
If he doesn't see it, he will just see lost profits and you can go to plenty other places with your business.


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## 68TriShield (May 15, 2006)

I would ask Bill what his problem is,straight up.No bullshit.You deserve to know being a once loyal customer.


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## vicvitola (Mar 18, 2008)

Absolutely I would.

This guy just doesn't get it. It's a horrible business practice to put in place across the board. All he can see is "I'm hurting and I have to make up the $ somewhere" (if that's the reason) but in that he fails to understand where his bread is being buttered. I'm not sure I would talk to him though after being told the policy applies to you. If I have to hang the fact that I am a good customer over someones head to make them appreciate that fact then that is someone who does not deserve my business in the first place. Perhaps you should talk to him and tell him how you feel and that you have already made your decision and won't be back, even if he were to change his mind. Let him chew on that.

The owner of my B&M would be grateful for a customer like you, especially in this ecomomy. He has never had a policy like you mention in over 13 years in business. He is hurting like the rest but knows knows that pissing off loyal customers will only compound the problem.


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## SouthsideCigar (Jan 11, 2008)

I have 2 responses

1) As a patron, I would be rather upset as well. As long as I am purchasing something, it should not matter what I smoke when I am there. There are many reasons as stated in previous posts as to why I may or may not want to smoke my purchase right then. Whether I spend $4000, or $50, I would think that the owner would want to keep my business.

2) As a business owner, I am rather surprised as the way this was handled (but maybe I shouldn't be as Customer Service is a lost art). My business currently is an online store, but my goal is to open a Cigar Bar/Lounge at some point. I cannot imagine myself chastising a good customer of mine for smoking something that was not purchased in my store. I am not even sure I would mind if someone came in to hang out and smoke something without buying anything. My goal with a lounge/B&M would be to create an environment where people want to come hang out. That doesn't necessarily mean that every person that walks in the store needs to buy something. That is not a realistic situation. Short of someone abusing the facility, the goal is to get people in the shop and get a buzz going. If you create a nice place to hang out and treat people as family and with respect, business will come.

Dave


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## Kwilkinson (Apr 11, 2008)

SouthsideCigar said:


> 2) As a business owner, I am rather surprised as the way this was handled (but maybe I shouldn't be as Customer Service is a lost art). My business currently is an online store, but my goal is to open a Cigar Bar/Lounge at some point. I cannot imagine myself chastising a good customer of mine for smoking something that was not purchased in my store. I am not even sure I would mind if someone came in to hang out and smoke something without buying anything. My goal with a lounge/B&M would be to create an environment where people want to come hang out. That doesn't necessarily mean that every person that walks in the store needs to buy something. That is not a realistic situation. Short of someone abusing the facility, the goal is to get people in the shop and get a buzz going. If you create a nice place to hang out and treat people as family and with respect, business will come.
> 
> Dave


With this kind of vision, I can see that when you do open up a lounge/B&M, you will have no problems being successful. :tu Good luck!


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## SMcGregor (Dec 4, 2006)

I agree.. Tell him how you feel.



hotreds said:


> I suggest you tell him what you just told us and see how he reacts, and proceed accordingly.


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## vtdragon (Nov 23, 2005)

Communicate.



Addiction said:


> ... And Sunday the owner let me know that starting in the next week he planned to enforce this policy with me when he had previously told me I was immune.


Right there you had the opportunity to have a frank and open discussion with him about his policy and your feelings about it. Instead you chose to bitch about it here.

No sympathy from me until you talk to the guy frankly and get his side of the story.


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## FriendlyFire (Jun 11, 2007)

I allso thing you should tell him how mad you are. If its hard to talk face to face call him. And tell him that the way things are now you need to say good bye. 
I had this a few weeks ago, I was trying out this new B&M, (new for me the place is who knows how old. ) I bought a pipe for $88 two guys come over to me and tell me you can't have your own snapple in here. I respect his policy, and guess what. Bye bye. I will not be his customer. If I can not drink my snapple I just can not smoke there. simle as that.


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## Dgar (Sep 12, 2006)

FriendlyFire said:


> I allso thing you should tell him how mad you are. If its hard to talk face to face call him. And tell him that the way things are now you need to say good bye.
> I had this a few weeks ago, I was trying out this new B&M, (new for me the place is who knows how old. ) I bought a pipe for $88 two guys come over to me and tell me you can't have your own snapple in here. I respect his policy, and guess what. Bye bye. I will not be his customer. If I can not drink my snapple I just can not smoke there. simle as that.


The Snapple police, now that is crazy.... I Imagine I would of asked for a refund on the pipe, and left my empty snapple bottle on the counter as I was leaving.


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## freakygar (Dec 13, 2007)

I would tell the guy exactly how you feel, it's your money. Some guys will trip over a dollar to pick up a penny.
I think it's great the you try and keep the business local but, it's your money.
Did I say it's your money?

Al

As for how it would be handled in Jersey, this is how the conversation would go:

A Hole Shop Owner: Hey you can only smoke here what you buy here.
Jersey Guy: U F**king kiddin me?
A Hole Shop Owner: Nope, new policy
Jersey Guy: Ur F**king kiddin me.
A Hole Shop Owner: I think it's best for business
Jersey Guy: U F**king kiddin me?
A Hole Shop Owner: I really need to make that ten bucks
Jersey Guy: Ur F**king kiddin me.
A Hole Shop Owner: Business is bad right now and I need to do something
Jersey Guy: U F**king kiddin me?
A Hole Shop Owner: I'll have to ask you to leave unless you buy a smoke
Jersey Guy: F**k U!
A Hole Shop Owner: F**k U!
Jersey Guy: Oh no no, *F**k U!
Repeat
Repeat
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
*


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## jkorp (Sep 27, 2007)

ahc4353 said:


> I
> 
> As for how it would be handled in Jersey, this is how the conversation would go:
> 
> ...


:r:r:r:r


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## ComicBookFreak (Sep 7, 2005)

ahc4353 said:


> I would tell the guy exactly how you feel, it's your money. Some guys will trip over a dollar to pick up a penny.
> I think it's great the you try and keep the business local but, it's your money.
> Did I say it's your money?
> 
> ...


:tpd:
I am not a Jersey Guy but I would have told him to "Go [email protected]#k Yourself!" Then I would have said hope you enjoy not having $4000 more a year spent here at your establishment. It shouldn't have made a difference if you would have pulled out a White Owl and smoked it. If you spend that kind of money at his place he could kiss my a$$.


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## skibumdc (Jun 27, 2007)

That's a real shame Bryan. I always planned on heading out that way to meet up at some point and see the shop. I usually hang out at my own B&M in Kingstowne.
They don't care where you bought your smoke. I typically bring 1 and if I want a second I'll purchase from them.

At least now when we get the Capitol Cigar Society chapter up and running and find a locale you won't have that issue!


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## orca99usa (May 23, 2008)

The bottom line is that, in a sense, he works for you. You are paying him to provide goods and services. By imposing heavy-handed restrictions on the delivery of said goods and services, he is trying to fundamentally change the nature of your business relationship. Personally I would give him not one dime of further business. There are too many other choices out there to tolerate this kind of treatment.


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## jkorp (Sep 27, 2007)

I look at it like, "as long as I spend money here, what do you care what I'm smoking". Luckily for me, the 2 B&M's I smoke at see it that way too.

A question, off topic but it just came to mind...

The new B&M's I found and really enjoy smoking at, sells non-alcoholic beverages ans snacks, I though this was a no no in MD. Anyone know?


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## mugen910 (May 14, 2008)

I have to say that is the biggest slap in the face ever! 

1) If it's the only cigar shop/lounge in the area I may just bring up your point to the owner.
2) If it's not the only shop/lounge I would save my $$ and shop online.
3) Times are tough with business right now but the reputation should never be compromised.


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## Lorglath (Aug 22, 2007)

i am with everyone....


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## Todd W (Jan 9, 2008)

Addiction: I don't know you, personally, but, just by reading your posts over the last few months, I see you as not only a very likeable person, but also one who has influence in an easy, subtle way.

This shop owner is threatened by you, and he realizes the potential of your big sales, and feels the strain of not being able to provide what you (and probably the guys you talk with) are really drooling over. As stated many times before me, there's two sides of this story: The owner's business model getting trampled on by talk of CC and smoking of CC, and then there's you: loyal patron, who feels hurt.

But, he's no dummy. He knows what you're up to, and wishes that all your $ spent was with him, on his NC product. No doubt you have patronized him beyond that of a typical customer, but it's not enough.

If he's really a nice guy, and you love the shop enough to desire going back, wait him out. Don't set foot in there for 3-4 weeks. Let him feel the sting of you and your buds not occupying his leather, and he'll wish for your presence to return. When you do return, let him know how you feel about his actions. If he's still bristled up about you, it might be time to move on. 

Ultimately though, realize two things:

1) You're smoking indoors, be thankful.
2) You can't smoke CC's in there anymore.


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## neoflex (Jan 3, 2006)

vtdragon said:


> Communicate.
> 
> Right there you had the opportunity to have a frank and open discussion with him about his policy and your feelings about it. Instead you chose to bitch about it here.
> 
> No sympathy from me until you talk to the guy frankly and get his side of the story.


Wow! Serious? Guy was just looking for others feedback. Little rough don't ya think? Couldn't been too bad a topic since there are 5 pages of responses thus far.


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## 44MAG (Mar 9, 2008)

everyone has a brain fart from time to time, apparently this b & m owner is not immune to that fact.


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## Addiction (May 8, 2007)

68TriShield said:


> I would ask **** what his problem is,straight up.No bullshit.You deserve to know being a once loyal customer.


Dave we've had some conversations that over the last few months that have lead me to believe he only cares about the dollar in front of his face, not much else than that. If this was another business, say OVT or Davidus I wouldn't care an iota because I didn't feel personally invested there. But I have really done everything I could to help him, I mean I shudder to think what I could have bought that money online or actually how much more I would have gotten at any other Mom and Pop level cigar store. But I knew that when I was spending it, I just thought I was helping a friend.

I'll probably talk to him about but honestly I just lost my taste for the whole thing. To spend more money than I'd spend anywhere else and to be treated like what I feel is crap is a pretty poor combination.


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## Volt (Jan 6, 2008)

ok, I guess i'll toss my .02 into the hat.

Obviously you have done what you think are good things to assit his business. Either he is unaware, doesn't care, or has issues that he thinks he has to over come with the new policy.

On his policy, I typically don't care for "special" people. Either it's for all or the policy applies to none. Too many other customers could get their feelings hurt if found out and then would not be feeling the love because of the draconian policy he has. What would the loss of many customers be versus your loss (rethorical type question) if they leave in a huff. Could he/should he have maybe grabbed a pot of coffee and sat down with you and talked about it, only ya'll can answer that.

Does his opinion matter? If so, take the time as Dave said and have a sit down. If he is just an aquaintence, you may be better off moving on. Less stress and drama. You have your place in the works and sounds like a hell of a joint your putting together. Does your place bother this guy? Good luck.


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## 68TriShield (May 15, 2006)

I agree and if that truly is the bottom line,hes not much of a business man...


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## jaharr (Sep 13, 2007)

Bad business has always been a pet peeve of mine, so much so that if I am the victim of same I will forever boycott that business. I think you would be justified to do the same if you so choose.


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## Addiction (May 8, 2007)

vtdragon said:


> Communicate.
> 
> Right there you had the opportunity to have a frank and open discussion with him about his policy and your feelings about it. Instead you chose to bitch about it here.
> 
> No sympathy from me until you talk to the guy frankly and get his side of the story.


Well a couple of counterpoints. This discussion happend on Fathers day, we had the floor alone for all of about five minutes and then traffic started hopping with Fathers day shoppers. In truth I didnt bring it up because it was a bit of a shock to me at that moment.

And I didn't come here to moan about it, if you read the first poast I'm asking a very simple set of questions which were: Am I overreacting and how would you feel about it. I didn't put his business name out there and only a very very small number of the people here will know what B&M talking about. And of the ones that do 99% of those guys would only be at that B&M because I threw a herf there which has become a more remote possibility than surfing in the Alps. So even to those people there is no harm no foul. There are two people on CS besides me that frequent this B&M and bpoth will go there no matter what.

I'm not bad mouthing anyone I think I pretty much stated the story as "here is what happened" with out even the slightest touch of spin on it.

I'm sorry I don't know the exact thing to say at every given moment, but I did at least know that it was possible I was making a mountian out of a mole hill.


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## NCRadioMan (Feb 28, 2005)

Have to smoke what you buy? That's asinine. Time to move on and find a new one, bro. And make sure everybody you brought there knows why. 

:2


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## Addiction (May 8, 2007)

Volt said:


> ......*Does your place bother this guy?* Good luck.


No, he'd even at one point offered to help us advertise for members.


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## Addiction (May 8, 2007)

NCRadioMan said:


> Have to smoke what you buy? That's asinine. Time to move on and find a new one, bro. *And make sure everybody you brought there knows why*.
> 
> :2


I wouldn't go that far, I don't want to harm the mans business in any way. Its simply not that serious to me, its not like tried to ruin my business. Its a decent B&M, I've simply gotten to the point where its not goign to be my favorite. In some ways it helps me, I can now apply a much more critical thinking bent to the way I buy cigars.


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## kas (Nov 22, 2006)

I agree w/ the position others have stated: go to the guy again and be brutally frank with him. Won't hurt and at least your conscience is clear then. And if he's not understanding, shake the dust of the place off of your feet. It's pretty poor customer service in my opinion. 

And I'd also like to note that -- and this is without reading every one of the posts -- I don't think you have named names here. I think that says something for you as well.


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## Da Klugs (Jan 8, 2005)

There is a local B&M here that I used to frequent. Over a couple years Between Sam, Doug and I we probably dropped 5 figures there. Buying habits moved more towards online vendors but we still stopped in at least once a week, bought a few singles to try things and shoot the bull.

A little over a year ago they passed the smoking ban here. I think the B&M owners in general started taking a stronger stance on walkin smokers who don't buy but come to smoke. About a year ago Brandon was in town and we went there for a cigar. Sat down and started smoking and chattin it up. Owner came over and told me he didn't appreciate me coming in to smoke without buying anything. Told him sorry and went in and bought 6 Pepin singles. We finished up our cigars and that was the last time I have been there.

Every business owner gets to choose how to run or in this case run off their customers.


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## koolbooy (Dec 16, 2007)

well, from reading the name "bill" i am now scared to think its my local B&M  is there another guy at the shop too? perhaps he is bald? ....


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## Addiction (May 8, 2007)

koolbooy said:


> well, from reading the name "bill" i am now scared to think its my local B&M  is there another guy at the shop too? perhaps he is bald? ....


Bill is a common name I wouldn't worry about it.


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## jkorp (Sep 27, 2007)

koolbooy said:


> ....is there another guy at the shop too? perhaps he is bald? ....


:r:r:r

sorry that just cracked me up for some reason.


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## petewho (May 22, 2008)

And now for something completely different.

I'm noob, I only shop at my local B&M, I've only hung out and smoked there once - I bought a $10 cigar and sat outside at their table for about 90 minutes while I smoked the cigar I just purchased. All the other patrons were hanging out inside. So for the most part I have zero experiences of hanging out at the B&M. This here is the perspective of someone pretty much from the outside:

I wouldn't bring in a cigar I bought from the web and smoke it at the B&M any more than I would cook a meal at home and carry it into a restaurant to eat it.

I'm not trying to disagree with anyone or argue. Just stating how I think of it as an outsider, not in-the-know about hanging out at B&Ms. Probably not an opinion that anyone else has, but I realize you're all seasoned veterans and I'm guessing at some point I'll change my mind.


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## koolbooy (Dec 16, 2007)

jkorp said:


> :r:r:r
> 
> sorry that just cracked me up for some reason.


lol :r


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## Addiction (May 8, 2007)

petewho said:


> And now for something completely different.
> 
> I'm noob, I only shop at my local B&M, I've only hung out and smoked there once - I bought a $10 cigar and sat outside at their table for about 90 minutes while I smoked the cigar I just purchased. All the other patrons were hanging out inside. So for the most part I have zero experiences of hanging out at the B&M. This here is the perspective of someone pretty much from the outside:
> 
> ...


The resturant idea I get, it would work the same with a bar. In fact I would never go into a B&M that I'd never been inside of and not buy something to smoke, tho I would very well smoke one of my own cigars if I had bought one. I even still buy things there, like last week forgetting that I had dropped out of the lottery bought one smoke every day I was there for my lottery package.


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## icehog3 (Feb 20, 2005)

The MoBsters go to Cigar King for MoB Herfs at least 6 times a year, I go more often. We always buy something, and we smoke our own cigars.

A few months back one of the employees came over and let us know we could not bring outside cigars in. I explained to him the larger group we brought in regularly, and that each of us always buy cigars when we come. He said he was sorry, and that was OK with him.

Came back the next month, he recognized me and said "don't worry about it, you guys are welcome, you don't need to buy anything to smoke here". We all still buy some cigars every time we go anyway....but we appreciate his attitude.


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## mustang1 (Oct 11, 2007)

I am pretty much done altogether with b&m's. I posted my last bad experience with them here on CS. I get better prices and service from online vendors. 

Walk away, let them feel it in the wallet. :2


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## bonggoy (Mar 9, 2006)

It sounds like you care about the shop. Talk to him Bryan. I am sure he appreciated your business but B&M's are hurting. The local shop I hang out with is losing money during the slow months. He has become a good friend now. That's probably why I am a little sympathetic to B&M's flight.


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## shilala (Feb 1, 2008)

I'd think that your friend would be willing to work out a compromise?
Maybe he'd allow you to keep a box of smokes there at his store that you've bought at his store so that you can smoke them at his store?
I can see his part, and I think it's senseless, but I've seen store owners do far sillier things.
It's like telling people to leave the mall if they aren't planning to buy anything.
The position leaves no doubt about what's most important to him.
I'd say my piece and hit the road.


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## jarbuxx (May 26, 2007)

Oh the drama! Time for round 2! :bx 
Perhaps he was having a bad day or maybe your business is under appreciated.
You have to talk to him for two reasons:
1 It's only fair to get his side
2 I'm dying to find out how he justifies this!


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## vtdragon (Nov 23, 2005)

neoflex said:


> Wow! Serious? Guy was just looking for others feedback. Little rough don't ya think?


Yes, you're right. I apologize for taking the wrong tone. I really just wanted to emphasize that I think he should be talking to the shop owner to try to resolve his issue.


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## pbrennan10 (Apr 9, 2007)

I wouldn't shop there.


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## tccigar (Aug 15, 2007)

*Hey CS! Sorry I've been out for a few days. Had to take a Taboo break.

Anyways, this is unfortunate. My first experience with this type of thing was when I recently went to San Diego and wanted to meet up with some Brothers from CS and smoke some Taboo. I called the store ahead of time to talk to the owner and he shut me down really quick and was actually very rude. He said the same thing about we all would have to buy the cigars we smoked from him. I probably would have spent $200-$400 with him, just as a "Thank You for letting us use his place", but we had to meet at the casino instead.
I have had customers coming in here for years with their cc and nc cigars that they did not purchase from me. I never really thought about it much and it's probably because I focus more on the customer and the fact they are just here and not somewhere else! I don't think much about if they bought the cigar from me or not. I understand that most customers do not buy 100% of their smokes from me, but the fact that they want to come to my place and hang out is enough for me. I will get some or most of their business.
This B&M owner needs to pull his head out and learn to respect and take better care of his customers and not be so desperate and/or greedy. Also, learn to appreciate the fact that you came to his place to smoke your cigar and be smart enough to realize he is not going to get 100% of every customers business.
Send him to TX and I will teach him how to treat his customers. It may be a waste of time though. I believe this is something you either have or you don't. I love "people" that have an interest in cigars. So, I tend to treat them more like friends and family than customers. This guy may only be in this for the money. You have to have a "love for people" and respect our differences.
I would tell him that if he does not allow his customers to smoke whatever they want, he just reduced his opportunity to zero for possibly making an additional sale to a what would have been another happy customer.
In my opinion guys like this are bad for all B&M owners and he should probably consider getting out of the cigar business.

Rob*


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## lenguamor (Nov 23, 2006)

tccigar said:


> *Hey CS! Sorry I've been out for a few days. Had to take a Taboo break.
> 
> Anyways, this is unfortunate. My first experience with this type of thing was when I recently went to San Diego and wanted to meet up with some Brothers from CS and smoke some Taboo. I called the store ahead of time to talk to the owner and he shut me down really quick and was actually very rude. He said the same thing about we all would have to buy the cigars we smoked from him. I probably would have spent $200-$400 with him, just as a "Thank You for letting us use his place", but we had to meet at the casino instead.
> I have had customers coming in here for years with their cc and nc cigars that they did not purchase from me. I never really thought about it much and it's probably because I focus more on the customer and the fact they are just here and not somewhere else! I don't think much about if they bought the cigar from me or not. I understand that most customers do not buy 100% of their smokes from me, but the fact that they want to come to my place and hang out is enough for me. I will get some or most of their business.
> ...


Great post.


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## sanfrantreat (Jan 12, 2008)

thats why we shop with you!!


tccigar said:


> *Hey CS! Sorry I've been out for a few days. Had to take a Taboo break.
> 
> Anyways, this is unfortunate. My first experience with this type of thing was when I recently went to San Diego and wanted to meet up with some Brothers from CS and smoke some Taboo. I called the store ahead of time to talk to the owner and he shut me down really quick and was actually very rude. He said the same thing about we all would have to buy the cigars we smoked from him. I probably would have spent $200-$400 with him, just as a "Thank You for letting us use his place", but we had to meet at the casino instead.
> I have had customers coming in here for years with their cc and nc cigars that they did not purchase from me. I never really thought about it much and it's probably because I focus more on the customer and the fact they are just here and not somewhere else! I don't think much about if they bought the cigar from me or not. I understand that most customers do not buy 100% of their smokes from me, but the fact that they want to come to my place and hang out is enough for me. I will get some or most of their business.
> ...


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## Addiction (May 8, 2007)

You should actually thank him Rob. let me explain why, with a little backstory.

For those that don't know I got a Taboo from on of my good friends because he wanted to hear my opinion. I posted a true review but one that didnt put Taboo cigars in the best light. Rob took time out of his day to contact me and offer me a Taboo sampler because he knew they could be better. I was beyond impressed but as I shopped to Taboo site I was hard pressed because everything I wanted there was the stuff I typically bought from my own local guy and even after this experience I remain dedicated to supporting local retailers (tho I doubt it will ever be at the level it was).

So I have another cigar seller close to me who will support my Davidoff and Anejo habit and you will be supplying me with every thing else.

We are going to be getting to know each other REALLY well Rob.


tccigar said:


> *Hey CS! Sorry I've been out for a few days. Had to take a Taboo break.
> 
> Anyways, this is unfortunate. My first experience with this type of thing was when I recently went to San Diego and wanted to meet up with some Brothers from CS and smoke some Taboo. I called the store ahead of time to talk to the owner and he shut me down really quick and was actually very rude. He said the same thing about we all would have to buy the cigars we smoked from him. I probably would have spent $200-$400 with him, just as a "Thank You for letting us use his place", but we had to meet at the casino instead.
> I have had customers coming in here for years with their cc and nc cigars that they did not purchase from me. I never really thought about it much and it's probably because I focus more on the customer and the fact they are just here and not somewhere else! I don't think much about if they bought the cigar from me or not. I understand that most customers do not buy 100% of their smokes from me, but the fact that they want to come to my place and hang out is enough for me. I will get some or most of their business.
> ...


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## FN in MT (Jan 22, 2008)

I was born and raised in New Jersey. During the twenty nine years I lived there I picked up the idea that you "take care" of Family, friends, and those who treat You well. Meaning; loyalty and honesty. That extends to vendors and business people as well. 

The nearly thirty years I've been in Montana has seen some disturbing changes in how individuals and businesses operate. Loyalty to a good customer has gone the way of the Dodo except in rare cases. 

Making a reasonable profit SEVERAL times over a lifetime has gone the way of ONE big profit and who cares where the customer goes. Simply make a sale no matter what....who cares if this guy EVER comes back again. Even the most basic Customer SERVICE is a joke.

I side with the original poster as I've had a few similar situations. You deal with someone for a period of time, drop a good amount of money there, then get treated like someone off the street who never stepped foot in the place before. Hurts Your feelings #1 and it's poor manners #2.

Personally I'd stay out of his B&M for a few months then revisit and see what he says.

FN in MT:cb


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## gehrig97 (Aug 19, 2007)

roarknumber1 said:


> If it were me, I'd stop going there for a good six months, stop in sometime after that, but one cigar and leave. If he says something like "where have you been," you can explain why he has lost your business.


I agree--I think this probably what I would do.


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## ca21455 (Jul 23, 2006)

As mentioned, I would talk to the guy but I would not predict any improvement in the relation.

You really do not have to explain yourself. If he changed to color of the lounge and you hated it, that is a perfectly good reason for not going.

We wanted to rent a local bowling ally for 2 hours for a company family function. Offered to pay full price for all the lanes plus a fee to cover shoes and food.

The guy said no, what if someone came in and wanted to bowl, I would be losing money. Could not explain it to him. Even offered to rent it during a slow period. He could not get over the thought of lossing money if another customer came in.

Best of luck my friend. Sorry you may have lost a nice hang out.


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## ssutton219 (Apr 17, 2007)

WOW...I have read through this 2x now and I think I have something to add...

a while back I agreed to meet up with a local guy to smoke a few cigars and BS, there is only one local B&M I know of here in town who has an area to smoke inside. I brought my otterbox and proceded to go. I met up opened my otter box and handed the other gorilla a couple cigars and then headed to the humi where I bought a couple sticks and then placed them in my otterbox and pulled out a stick he did not carry and asked if he minded. he did not and so I enjoyed the stick. I never thought about how he might feel when I walked in with the travel humi or how he felt when I lit up the stick I brought in...never occurred to me, I have been gifted new sticks to try and have always brought a couple of my own for him to try is he would like. I can't believe this owner would jeopardize his name and business with you Bryan...I can't imagine that you haven't spoke about the forums you belong to or the new Cigar Club you helped charter....sounds very short sighted and I am sorry.



Shawn


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## doc8466 (Jun 2, 2008)

Any businessman worth his salt weighs pros and cons before making decisions that will affect his bottom line. I have to believe this guy understood and accepted the risk involved in clamping down on you. Believing that, he should have been/be prepared to reap what he sowed. Do what you will and let him live with it.


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## roarknumber1 (Feb 7, 2008)

Have you considered hitting him upside the head with a frozen trout? It works wonders. Stopped all that pesky backtalk and nagging from my wife.


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## ibosmiley (Feb 29, 2004)

Yikes, that sucks. Guess he's trying to be "fair" to everyone with his rule... sucks.


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## sjnovakovich (Apr 29, 2008)

I'd give him a quick listing of my receipts for the last three months so he sees what I spend there. Then, I'd say something like, 

"Apparently my business isn't all that important too you. I'm truely sorry that that's the case, and although I feel badly about it, I suppose that I'll just have to go elsewhere."

See what his reaction is.


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## icantbejon (May 11, 2008)

I would definitely feel betrayed. If you had given this guy so much, both in monetary means as well as loyalty, I would expect something in return. And that doesn't mean a discount, but just the ability to come in and have a good time. I wouldn't walk in that store again. That's just my :2 though.


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## Silound (May 22, 2007)

Coming from the view of the customer, I feel you were treated poorly. NOT because the owner did what he did, but because he did so failing to recognize a regular loyal customer and treat you with respect. But.....


Working at a shop, I see many people bring in outside smokes. Some of our regulars literally buy one or two sticks a week and come in every day smoking one, or buy a box and it lasts a month. The catch to any situation is that you do give him your business, so he's not losing out on anything. Yes, it's painful to see someone always walk in with a cigar in hand, but I feel it's more inappropriate if I don't recognize them by name and know exactly how much they've spent over the last few months at the shop. It's a small world, and I can tell you exactly how much most of my regulars come in and spend in a week. ESPECIALLY the ones who come in and spend more than $1500 in a month or two (I still know the name of the customer who bought the largest purchase I've ever seen).


As a potential future owner (I've been tossing the idea around), I see the situation as follows: I want to create an atmosphere where fellow cigar lovers can come in, relax in a comfortable setting, and enjoy a fine smoke. Very simple, no? I feel that people who come in and buy will continue to do so for a variety of reasons. The best thing I can do is encourage them to come in by treating them well and making sure they're comfortable in the shop. The people who walk in with sticks will eventually either buy sticks or bring in business from others they attract to the shop. By coming down heavy handed on them, I substantially reduce the chance that I may get some business if I make them mad. If I let them come in and smoke, I gain nothing and assume no additional risk to my business, but have the slightly increased chance they will buy from me, or tell friends about the place who will become customers.

I won't offer advice about the issue, that's yours to solve, but I definitely feel that you were treated poorly merely based on the perception that the shop owner is more concerned about his profits than his crowd.


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## justinwb (Mar 22, 2005)

That is the great thing about capitalism, we have the power of choice. He may choose to not let you smoke cigars you havent purchased there. But on the flip side of the coin you can choose to not shop there and let it be known to your friends as well.


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## bi11fish (Dec 3, 2006)

You know this is really pretty simple--I cannot change anyone else and feelings are not facts---so if the B&M has made a decision YOU can now make your decsion based on your wants & needs. Nothin lasts forever.
He** you are not married to the guy


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## Puffin Fresh (Nov 1, 2006)

Silound said:


> (I still know the name of the customer who bought the largest purchase I've ever seen).


I'd like to know how much that purchase was. I'm curious now.


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## Silound (May 22, 2007)

Over $7100 _AFTER_ a 20% discount!

He cleaned us OUT of Padron Anni boxes and singles (including 10 boxes of 80thm which is over $2300 right there), then added a couple cans and boxes of aged Zino Platinum and AVO Domaine.


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## Addiction (May 8, 2007)

I dream of this kind of spree one day.


Silound said:


> Over $7100 _AFTER_ a 20% discount!
> 
> He cleaned us OUT of Padron Anni boxes and singles (including 10 boxes of 80thm which is over $2300 right there), then added a couple cans and boxes of aged Zino Platinum and AVO Domaine.


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## SmokinApe (Jun 20, 2007)

I'd tell this clown your side and then I'd tell him to go fukk himself... People hanging out and having a good time in the B&M is good for the B&M, period... I agree it's a dikk move to always go and not buy, but not being able to smoke what you want after eing a good customer, wtf?


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## shrtcrt (Jan 29, 2006)

That is the kind of policy you have for freeloaders, but NEVER your best customers. Some people need to understand that the people who are regulars, help bring in the business. I can understand this policy if you NEVER buy anything, but that does not sound like the case. Maybe a good talk with him might make him understand this.

Plus it is nice to walk into a shop and see a few people in there enjoy cigars, no matter WHAT they are.


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## clampdown (Feb 7, 2006)

Bryan, Im gone for a year and this is what happens? :ss

Well, I know the shop you are talking about and like you I would spend my days there smoking and watching tv. However, after reading what has gone on, i doubt I will be making any more trips. Luckily we have some local establishments that allow cigar smoking and offer some good drink choices. I couldnt make our last meeting becuase I had to watch my nephew, but if you are interested in having a drink and smoke Im always here.


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## Cigary (Oct 19, 2007)

I'm with ya on that decision. You were treated shabby and the guy needs to know it. Period,,,end of statement.

9 times out of 10 even if you did bring in your own smokes and smoked it in his place you will usually buy from his stock just so that you are doing right by him. This owner won't have a place to operate if he continues this insane policy because most cigar smokers do right by any B & M.


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## floydpink (Feb 15, 2007)

I meet a few friends every Tuesday at Corona who all ride and I don't think one cigar is purchased there (nor could they sell what we are smoking).

We sit outside at the tables, order iced teas and smoke away with no issue.

Most of us do buy boxes there, just not me.

I think that policy sucks.


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## petewho (May 22, 2008)

petewho said:


> And now for something completely different.
> 
> I'm noob, I only shop at my local B&M, I've only hung out and smoked there once - I bought a $10 cigar and sat outside at their table for about 90 minutes while I smoked the cigar I just purchased. All the other patrons were hanging out inside. So for the most part I have zero experiences of hanging out at the B&M. This here is the perspective of someone pretty much from the outside:
> 
> ...


I'd like to retract my former statement. This here newbie has finally realized that cigars aren't very smokable when you first buy them off-the-shelf at the B&M. Today I bought a handful of cigars at the B&M, then sat down and fired up one I brought with me instead.


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## Addiction (May 8, 2007)

clampdown said:


> Bryan, Im gone for a year and this is what happens? :ss
> 
> Well, I know the shop you are talking about and like you I would spend my days there smoking and watching tv. However, after reading what has gone on, i doubt I will be making any more trips. Luckily we have some local establishments that allow cigar smoking and offer some good drink choices. I couldnt make our last meeting becuase I had to watch my nephew, but if you are interested in having a drink and smoke Im always here.


B,

You know I would met you at anytime man, shoot me your number via PM and we can always hook up at Broadlands.

For me its gotten to be no harm no foul. He is who he is, he has a right to treat his customers anyway he wants. And I have a right to take my money elsewhere, which I've resolved to do. It actually kinda makes things easy for me since I wasn't planning to buy a lot of the stuff he sells in any regard, I was only going to be making future purchases to support his shop.


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## massphatness (Jan 4, 2008)

Addiction said:


> For me its gotten to be no harm no foul. He is who he is, he has a right to treat his customers anyway he wants. And I have a right to take my money elsewhere, which I've resolved to do. It actually kinda makes things easy for me since I wasn't planning to buy a lot of the stuff he sells in any regard, I was only going to be making future purchases to support his shop.


I completely understand your sentiment on this, and it's likely the moral high road. However, I ask you to consider having a conversation with the guy -- an adult conversation, though you don't strike me as the type to act otherwise. As a businessman, he needs to be aware of how his decisions affect his most loyal customers. I fully advocate you staying away even after the conversation, but it could have beneficial results for other customers if you enlighten him as the reasonings behind your decision.


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## Mister Moo (Sep 8, 2005)

GAW said:


> Well Bryan it may feel like betrayal to you, and with some justification, but by smoking [*anyone elses*] cigars there -from his point of view - you are at least covertly and even maybe somewhat overtly threatening his business model...


I couldn't agree more and, at the same time, know how let down Bryan feels.

But taken from your own point of view, Bryan, what would you do with a bunch of well-intentioned non-dues-paying friends-of-friends who decided to hang out at Capital Cigar Society meetings and events? I know you can't cover rent for the new dream lounge by admitting hanger-outters who are already paying their dues to the Alexandria Cigar Society. Take my drift?


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## Armado (Dec 1, 2008)

If I were the store owner I would feel betrayed by you. I own a restaurant and could not imagine someone purchasing food online and wanting to come in to my establishment and eat it just because he spoke nicely of my restaurant to others and occasionally purchases a meal. That shop owner pays rent for that space you are sitting in. He also pays heat/ac, TV, insurance, taxes not to mention the cost of the furniture and fixtures. I purchase at least one cigar every time I use a FREE cigar lounge regardless if I purchase a box in the past or say nice things about the establishment. If people like you keep complaining that we have to at least purchase a cigar when using FREE cigar lounges, we are not going to have them to go to and you will ruin it for all of us. Just purchase a cigar from the guy when you use his lounge and stop the "but I smoke Cubans garbage". Also cuban cigars are illegal. I do not blame the man for not wanted illegal products in his store that could jeopardize his business. If someone came into my place with brownies with POT baked in them, I would kick them out too.
Can we all just support our local cigar shops. They don't owe us anything, but we owe them a lot for providing a haven to enjoy cigars! He is not trying to squeeze a buck out of you. He is trying to survive!



Addiction said:


> OK long story short, every one knows the long standing love affair I had with my local B&M. I mean I was posting here for a while before I started buying and I knew that I wasn't going to get the best price buying at my retailer. I knew my selection would certainly be more limited buying from him. But I kept buying because I wanted to support local business, in fact I spent about $4,000 with him last year. It used to be that when I went in a store I would only buy stuff he didn't carry because I felt like I was cheating.
> 
> In the last three months this shop has instilled a policy saying you have to buy something to smoke when you come in there and you can only smoke what you buy there. And Sunday the owner let me know that starting in the next week he planned to enforce this policy with me when he had previously told me I was immune.
> 
> ...


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## FalconUruguay (Nov 18, 2008)

Fu*k Him....If He Can't See How Good A Customer You Are, Then He Doesn't Need Your Business.

People Who Operate Like That, Always End Up With A Closed Store Sooner Than Later.

Spend Your Hard Earned money Online, Or With Another B&M In Your Area.


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## epyon26 (Dec 16, 2007)

I say boycot him and try to get as many people as you can. When his cash flow runs down and he finds out why he'll chang his tude quick.


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## mrreindeer (Sep 4, 2008)

Like Addiction, I really love my B&M. My guy runs a nice, clean shop with a great walk-in humidor and beautiful lounge. He's involved in the community and participates in Cigar Nights at a local restaurant every month. I support him every chance I get. I haven't ever bought a cigar online...well, except for the Altadis specials...3 cigars for $7.95 Playboys & Macanudo 1968s. I'm very loyal and almost never buy anywhere else unless there's an event somewhere or I'm on the road.

I can understand Addiction's predicament and appreciate that he does take steps to point others who ask what he's smoking in the direction of where they can find that particular stick in the B&M's humidor.

That being said, Addiction is using this guy's space for which he pays rent, I'm sure. And Addiction really is smoking something that you can't get at that particular B&M. If this owner feels he needs to make a rule to protect his business, regardless of how much is spent by any particular customers, it's his prerogative and duty to uphold the rule, for everyone. And it's Addiction's prerogative too, if he wants to move on to another place. But if it were me, I would be understanding, regardless of what I've spent there, because rules are the rules.

Some troublemaker would certainly come along asking if he could break the rule because he spent $10k a year and then it'd get back to Addiction and pi$$ him off. So, the rule is set and you gotta abide or move on.

Them's the rules, unfortunately, like 'em or not and I'm sure this guy is struggling just like any other B&M. And it's our duty to support 'em if we want them to survive, from spending more dough there, spending time there, recommending others and abiding by the rules.



> Secondly as long as they come to his store and buy what does he care if they think cubans are better.


Cuz eventually they're going to stop buying from him. It makes some sense when you think about it.

I think Addiction & I are rarities in the cigar world. I'm unusual in my loyalty to the B&M too. I think most guys on here buy online and save a bunch. And most guys, like Addiction, when they've turned CC, they don't really see a reason to go back to NC's.

While it's extremely attractive to be saving the dough by buying online, I would like to see my guy survive in a very difficult time (esp. out here in California!) and I'll eat the dollars to support this guy who runs a very nice business, shop, lounge and tries to take care of his family. He takes care of me, gets me stuff, gives me deals, discounts, freebies, right & left. I can't imagine any rule he could make that I'd have a problem with.


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## Scud (Sep 9, 2007)

I just saw this thread and, even though I read a lot, I didn't read what came of Addiction talking to the owner of the B&M. 

I try to support my local B&M that has a lounge, but sometimes it's not worth going there. The owner is truly a used car saleman and hounds customers to try new $12-$18 cigars saying how good they are and he's not a cigar smoker at all. I drop a decent amount of $$ in there, but when I spend less than $20 on a visit, he gets an attitude if I enjoy a cigar in his lounge area. I went there about a month ago and dropped $220+ at an event on a Thursday night. When about 20 of us met up on the following Saturday, I only spent the $15 cash I had in my wallet, but hung out all day. For doing that, I got tons of attitude. I dropped $235+ in 2 days and have to put up with his bullshit. Now that I think about it, I might be done supporting him. He's almost an hour away and I'll spend my $$ where I'm at least treated like a decent customer.


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## mrreindeer (Sep 4, 2008)

Scud, that really sucks. Yeah, I'd say it's time to move on. That's too bad. One of the main reasons I like my guy so much is that he's just a real nice, genuine feller, not pushy in the slightest.

And I didn't see a follow up if Addiction confronted the guy or not, either.


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## Nabinger16 (Aug 24, 2007)

Armado said:


> If I were the store owner I would feel betrayed by you. I own a restaurant and could not imagine someone purchasing food online and wanting to come in to my establishment and eat it just because he spoke nicely of my restaurant to others and occasionally purchases a meal.





Armado said:


> *If you actually read the thread you would realize he didn't occasionally buy a cigar. He spent almost 350 bucks a month in his shop and always purchased something even if he chose to smoke something else during his visit. Not to mention he didn't brag about smoking a cigar not sold at the establishment.*
> 
> That shop owner pays rent for that space you are sitting in. He also pays heat/ac, TV, insurance, taxes not to mention the cost of the furniture and fixtures. I purchase at least one cigar every time I use a FREE cigar lounge regardless if I purchase a box in the past or say nice things about the establishment.
> 
> ...


Welcome to the Jungle! You may want to post in the New Gorillas Forum and introduce yourself.


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## Scott W. (Jul 10, 2008)

Nabinger16 said:


> Welcome to the Jungle! You may want to post in the New Gorillas Forum and introduce yourself.




I couldn't agree with you any more!!! Excellent post and respectfully done as well. Nice job.


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## Shaz (Oct 10, 2008)

Nabinger16 said:


> Welcome to the Jungle! You may want to post in the New Gorillas Forum and introduce yourself.




Very restrained. I would have had a hard time doing that.


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## PerpetualNoob (Sep 9, 2008)

I've read on here about smoking lounges where you could smoke whatever you wanted, but they had a "cutting/lighting" fee to sort of pay your butt-space rent while you're smoking. So, being as I'm a "solutions guy", here's an idea for those of you operating B&M's that also have lounges:

Smokin' Tokens.

Buy a cigar, you get a token for the cutting/lighting fee. If you use your token to smoke the cigar you just bought, fine, or use it for one you brought with you. You come in one day and don't need or want to buy anything, but you have tokens from previous purchases, no harm, no foul. Seems like the fairest solution for all involved. No one has to keep track of who the "special" customers are. Everyone pays the fee, no exceptions. Figure out what your typical profit is on a single cigar, and that's how much tokens are if someone wants them at a cash price without buying cigars. The owner doesn't lose anything. In fact, he could make his profit on cigars he didn't even sell. They could do specials, buy 9 tokens, get the 10th one free, three extra for a box purchase, whatever. If you have some kind of Member's Club deal going, members might get a few extra tokens every month. Tons of possibilities. Say one of your regulars wants to bring some of his buddies in and treat them to something you don't sell, or don't have in stock, as long as you get a token for every cigar, you've covered your cut, everything's good.

Try as I might, I can't think of any reason this wouldn't work. Comments?


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## NCRadioMan (Feb 28, 2005)

Armado said:


> Also cuban cigars are illegal.


FWIW, it is not illegal to simply possess and smoke cuban cigars. It is however illegal to import and/or sell them. 

Nice response Nabinger16. :tu


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## Scott W. (Jul 10, 2008)

NCRadioMan said:


> FWIW, *it is not illegal to simply possess and smoke cuban cigars. It is however illegal to import and/or sell them.*
> 
> Nice response Nabinger16. :tu


I think I respectfully disagree. It is illegal in the US to possess, buy or smoke cuban cigars. In fact, I read somewhere that even if you are a US citizen outside the country and are in possession of CC's you can find yourself in trouble.


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## Shaz (Oct 10, 2008)

NCRadioMan said:


> FWIW, it is not illegal to simply possess and smoke cuban cigars. It is however illegal to import and/or sell them.
> 
> Nice response Nabinger16. :tu


Don't want to jack this thread, but I was recently surprised to hear it's illegal for US citizens to smoke CC's even when outside their country. Or did I misunderstand and it's the buying of CC's that is the issue?


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## rx2010 (Jan 4, 2007)

scottw said:


> I think I respectfully disagree. It is illegal in the US to possess, buy or smoke cuban cigars. In fact, I read somewhere that even if you are a US citizen outside the country and are in possession of CC's you can find yourself in trouble.


this is correct, possession, smoking etc, no matter where you are in the world is illegal at this time


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## ssutton219 (Apr 17, 2007)

Not that it pertains to this post but....

"The laws that make up the embargo are quite explicit. Under the authority of the Trading With the Enemies Act, the Cuban Democracy Act, additional amendments to TWEA and the Cuban Assets Control regulations,* it is unlawful for an American to purchase any product of Cuban origin* in a third country or to bring any product of Cuban origin back to the United States. If an individual (mostly journalists and academics) is granted a visa for travel to Cuba, he is allowed to bring back $100 in merchandise, which may be up to 100 cigars, provided he can find any that cheap."

http://www.cigaraficionado.com/Cigar/CA_Archives/CA_Show_Article/0,2322,772,00.html

Just one example.

Shawn


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## rx2010 (Jan 4, 2007)

bottom line is, aside from this being a 6 month old post, Bryan is spending approx. 11 bucks PER DAY over the course of the year with his "quarterly" purchases. If I walked in to my B&M EVERY DAY and spent 11 bucks, I think they'd be pretty damn happy to see me each time. Business owners need to avoid short sightedness in situations like this. 
And if another customer complains, simply tell them "when you spend money like him, you get a pass too"

When my shop gets their anejos in each year, the 2-3 boxes of Sharks are never sold to regulars, they have 2-3 elite customers that get them. Everyone else can buy the other sizes 2-3 at a time. You take care of your customers, and you take EXTRA care of your really good customers. Anyone using the food argument is all wet. It's 100% different (well at least 99%)


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## Shaz (Oct 10, 2008)

Hey Brian!
Since this post has been resurrected after such a long time, how about an update? I don't think I'm the only one that's curious about the outcome. Did you ever have a conversation with this guy? Or didi you just simply stop patronizing the place.
Just curious.


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## NCRadioMan (Feb 28, 2005)

scottw said:


> I think I respectfully disagree. It is illegal in the US to possess, buy or smoke cuban cigars. In fact, I read somewhere that even if you are a US citizen outside the country and are in possession of CC's you can find yourself in trouble.


Nowhere in the law does it state that it is illegal to possess or smoke them. If you can find it, please post it. This has been gone over many times. If you don't believe me, believe poker.
http://www.clubstogie.com/vb/showpost.php?p=1865909&postcount=331
http://www.clubstogie.com/vb/showpost.php?p=1866016&postcount=343
http://www.clubstogie.com/vb/showpost.php?p=1866500&postcount=369


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## MarkinCA (Jun 13, 2007)

hotreds said:


> I suggest you tell him what you just told us and see how he reacts, and proceed accordingly.


After reading the numerous posts here on this thread, I agree with hotreds that direct communications is the best course with any type of situation. If that fails, turn around a take a walk...

 


tccigar said:


> * I have had customers coming in here for years with their cc and nc cigars that they did not purchase from me. I never really thought about it much and it's probably because I focus more on the customer and the fact they are just here and not somewhere else!
> 
> **In my opinion guys like this are bad for all B&M owners and he should probably consider getting out of the cigar business. Rob*


Rob, if I lived in Texas, I'd be one of your loyal local customers. Your a true example of Customer Service in the retail industry, and that's why I buy from you:tu



Addiction said:


> In the last three months this shop has instilled a policy saying you have to buy something to smoke when you come in there and you can only smoke what you buy there. And Sunday the owner let me know that starting in the next week he planned to enforce this policy with me when he had previously told me I was immune.
> 
> Am I overreacting? I don't begrudge the man a chance to make a buck, but jeez does he have to squeeze every dollar and turn it into 108 pennies?


With the above said and seeing that some time has past on this thread, I would simply place a call to 'hotreds' and solicit the services of this young man and his F-117 Bryan:


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## KingSlender (Nov 17, 2008)

If you're a regular, I don't see why he could have a big issue with you occasionally smoking sticks that you don't buy there. But if you are smoking CCs, then I think the solution is simple - just take off the band and nobody will know and just say "Ah, it's the one stogie I don't talk about." if people pester you to know what it is.


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## mrreindeer (Sep 4, 2008)

PerpetualNoob said:


> I've read on here about smoking lounges where you could smoke whatever you wanted, but they had a "cutting/lighting" fee to sort of pay your butt-space rent while you're smoking. So, being as I'm a "solutions guy", here's an idea for those of you operating B&M's that also have lounges:
> 
> Smokin' Tokens.
> 
> ...


I think you've got a great idea with a great name. That or Tokin' Tokens...but then that'd probably imply :w. 



ssutton219 said:


> Not that it pertains to this post but....
> "The laws that make up the embargo are quite explicit. Under the authority of the Trading With the Enemies Act, the Cuban Democracy Act, additional amendments to TWEA and the Cuban Assets Control regulations,* it is unlawful for an American to purchase any product of Cuban origin* in a third country or to bring any product of Cuban origin back to the United States. If an individual (mostly journalists and academics) is granted a visa for travel to Cuba, he is allowed to bring back $100 in merchandise, which may be up to 100 cigars, provided he can find any that cheap."


I better return my 'Buena Vista Social Club' CD. Damn it and that's my favorite smokin' music.


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## BlueHavanaII (Feb 2, 2007)

I am wondering if the B&M owner has relaxed his policy now that 5 months have gone by? As a B&M owner, you have to realize the things that he is dealing with:

-People buying the cheapest cigar they can find, then sitting down and helping themselves to a cup of coffee, eating a couple of donuts that a customer brought in, wanting to change the channel on the TV, ordering lunch (Chinese) and dropping fried rice all over the floor, pissing on the floor in the bathroom and wanting the heat or air conditioning adjusted, all while discussing the online deals he found!

On the other hand, a good customer like you should be the exception... provided that you remove the band from outside cigars and represent yourself as a customer who bought your cigar there to others.

My thinking is he was having a bad week.

Jim


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## raralith (Sep 26, 2008)

I would feel betrayed simply because I spent my hard earned money there. It is even worse though if I promoted the store to my friends, had herfs there, and did my best to help this fellow survive. Most of my purchases are online, and all of my recent purchases are CC and will most likely continue to be simply as a matter of taste and preference. I still go to my local B&M though and buy a stick simply because I love the leather sofas, I love the atmosphere, I love it because it's indoors and outside is just too hot, cold, raining, or I just don't want ot be outside. It's a place to relax AND I get a cigar for a "cover fee." And let us be quite honest here too, I doubt many people buy from their B&M's because their getting the best prices.

On the other hand, if I brought my own smokes, sat there and didn't help the establishment, what could I say if the owner gave me this ultimadium of purchase or leave? This isn't a special situation, it isn't a rule that must be obided by all patrons; it's a rule so that bums don't come in and ugly up the place. You either help the B&M spending money, bringing friends to be new patrons, or you don't. You shouldn't need tokens or keep tabs of who is buying what.


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## Addiction (May 8, 2007)

BlueHavanaII said:


> *I am wondering if the B&M owner has relaxed his policy now that 5 months have gone by?* As a B&M owner, you have to realize the things that he is dealing with......


Blue,

Far from it. In fact he has taken to askign me everytime I walk through the door what I'll be smoking while I'm there. Mind you I'm the only one he ever asks this of. So I've taken to not buying anything from the man, there are other stores that will treat me much better if I am in the mood for something.


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## Shaz (Oct 10, 2008)

Addiction said:


> Blue,
> 
> Far from it. In fact he has taken to askign me everytime I walk through the door what I'll be smoking while I'm there. Mind you I'm the only one he ever asks this of. So I've taken to not buying anything from the man, there are other stores that will treat me much better if I am in the mood for something.


In light of this, I'm surprised you're even going there at all. Does he ask this in a nice polite way, or like an a..hole?


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## sirxlaughs (Nov 18, 2005)

Armado said:


> If I were the store owner I would feel betrayed by you. I own a restaurant and could not imagine someone purchasing food online and wanting to come in to my establishment and eat it just because he spoke nicely of my restaurant to others and occasionally purchases a meal.


Why do so many people use this strange bring your own food to a restaurant analogy? It doesn't make any sense. Bringing your own food to a restaurant would be more analogous to bringing your own tobacco to the Padron factory. A closer analogy to bringing a cigar to a cigar lounge would be like bringing your own burgers to a bbq. Sure, the guy at the bbq will have meat, but you can still bring your own meat. Anyone else feel dirty after reading that sentence? :r

I also thought it was only illegal to sell/purchase Cuban cigars.


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## Shaz (Oct 10, 2008)

sirxlaughs said:


> Why do so many people use this strange bring your own food to a restaurant analogy? It doesn't make any sense. Bringing your own food to a restaurant would be more analogous to bringing your own tobacco to the Padron factory. A closer analogy to bringing a cigar to a cigar lounge would be like bringing your own burgers to a bbq. Sure, the guy at the bbq will have meat, but you can still bring your own meat. Anyone else feel dirty after reading that sentence? :rquote]
> 
> :tpd:Or a little closer may be bringing your own book to read to a Chapters lounge, where you've bought many books in the past.


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## BlueHavanaII (Feb 2, 2007)

sirxlaughs said:


> Why do so many people use this strange bring your own food to a restaurant analogy? It doesn't make any sense. Bringing your own food to a restaurant would be more analogous to bringing your own tobacco to the Padron factory. A closer analogy to bringing a cigar to a cigar lounge would be like bringing your own burgers to a bbq. Sure, the guy at the bbq will have meat, but you can still bring your own meat. Anyone else feel dirty after reading that sentence? :r
> 
> I also thought it was only illegal to sell/purchase Cuban cigars.


The guy hosting the BBQ is not trying to make a living out of it, so, bad analogy.
If you don't like the food/restaurant analogy, how about this one...

You are a regular customer at the corner bar and have made lots of friends there. So you enjoy watching TV and hanging out and drinking a beer or 3. Problem is, you don't like their beer selection, so you bring a couple of your favorite microbrews with you. For some strange reason, the owner kicks you out. How unfair!


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## zackly (Jun 27, 2008)

Addiction said:


> Blue,
> 
> Far from it. In fact he has taken to askign me everytime I walk through the door what I'll be smoking while I'm there. Mind you I'm the only one he ever asks this of. So I've taken to not buying anything from the man, there are other stores that will treat me much better if I am in the mood for something.


This is unbelievable! What an idiot!! You spend 3-4 large in their annually
& this fool hassles you? This guy should send the "high roller limo" to pick you up. I would never set foot in there again.
Personally, I like to smoke my sticks drier than most B&M hold them at. I walk into my local B&M with a cigar already lit then usually but not always buy a few sticks to go. They appreciate my buisness & show that appreciation by treating me royaly.


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## sirxlaughs (Nov 18, 2005)

BlueHavanaII said:


> The guy hosting the BBQ is not trying to make a living out of it, so, bad analogy.
> If you don't like the food/restaurant analogy, how about this one...
> 
> You are a regular customer at the corner bar and have made lots of friends there. So you enjoy watching TV and hanging out and drinking a beer or 3. Problem is, you don't like their beer selection, so you bring a couple of your favorite microbrews with you. For some strange reason, the owner kicks you out. How unfair!


The guy running the free lounge isn't making a living out of it either. Unless it's a pay to sit lounge, or it has some kind of purchase rule. You don't go to a smoking lounge and get presented a Cigar Menu. It's kind of like going to the bathroom in a supermarket (dangerous situation), but not having to use the toilet paper in Aisle 6. It's still not the same, though. I guess I can't really find a proper analogy. In a bar/restaurant, you are offered not only a menu, but a service. I've gone to cigar lounges that are also connected to restaurants. While I bring my own cigars, I always order food/drinks to enjoy while I'm there. If I were just going in and "freeloading," then the lounge I enjoy wouldn't be there, yea? How's this for cool - I know someone who works in a small cafe that serves some amazing coffee. One day, I brought in my own beans for him to try. We both ended up sitting down and enjoying a nice cup 'o joe. There can always be an exception.


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## sirxlaughs (Nov 18, 2005)

Shaz said:


> sirxlaughs said:
> 
> 
> > Why do so many people use this strange bring your own food to a restaurant analogy? It doesn't make any sense. Bringing your own food to a restaurant would be more analogous to bringing your own tobacco to the Padron factory. A closer analogy to bringing a cigar to a cigar lounge would be like bringing your own burgers to a bbq. Sure, the guy at the bbq will have meat, but you can still bring your own meat. Anyone else feel dirty after reading that sentence? :rquote]
> ...


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## BlueHavanaII (Feb 2, 2007)

sirxlaughs said:


> The guy running the free lounge isn't making a living out of it either. Unless it's a pay to sit lounge, or it has some kind of purchase rule. You don't go to a smoking lounge and get presented a Cigar Menu. It's kind of like going to the bathroom in a supermarket (dangerous situation), but not having to use the toilet paper in Aisle 6. It's still not the same, though. I guess I can't really find a proper analogy. In a bar/restaurant, you are offered not only a menu, but a service. I've gone to cigar lounges that are also connected to restaurants. While I bring my own cigars, I always order food/drinks to enjoy while I'm there. If I were just going in and "freeloading," then the lounge I enjoy wouldn't be there, yea? How's this for cool - I know someone who works in a small cafe that serves some amazing coffee. One day, I brought in my own beans for him to try. We both ended up sitting down and enjoying a nice cup 'o joe. There can always be an exception.


I disagree... no one runs a free lounge out of charity. The lounge is there to support the customers of the humidor. The shop owner is not paying rent on the lounge space (and providing food, drink, bathroom facilities and maid service) out of the goodness of his heart. (I realize that we are off track from the original post... I still believe a good customer can smoke his own cigars in the lounge)


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## sirxlaughs (Nov 18, 2005)

BlueHavanaII said:


> I disagree... no one runs a free lounge out of charity. The lounge is there to support the customers of the humidor. The shop owner is not paying rent on the lounge space (and providing food, drink, bathroom facilities and maid service) out of the goodness of his heart. (I realize that we are off track from the original post... I still believe a good customer can smoke his own cigars in the lounge)


I totally agree. The lounge is part of the business, but it's still technically free. I see it more like the bookstore example. I've been to Borders and seen people sipping coffee and eating a pastry they bought, but reading a book of their own. Nobody wants freeloaders coming in, and just using the facility w/o contributing back to it. Even the other customers would feel cheated.


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## TheStig (Jan 12, 2009)

If you truely like the guy, let him know how you feel and react accordingly :bx. 

If you really don't care for his "friendship" go somewhere else, there are plenty of B&Ms that would love your Biz.


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## Shaz (Oct 10, 2008)

We can go back and forth forever on this, but the bottom line is the owner can run his business in any way he see's fit, within the law. His business will benifit or suffer as a result of his decisions.
The purpose of having the lounge is to somehow increase his revenues. But the question is how will this happen? Each situation is different, but if he's paying rent, the floor space dedicated to the lounge would be fairly costly. I find it hard to imagine that the space would pay for itself based on the profits he would generate from the smokes purchased and smoked there. He would probably do better by using it for more retail space.

So the owner is missing the point of having the lounge. It's not in itself, a money making scheme. It's to create a warm, welcoming environment to attract new, and keep old customers. Any half assed businessman knows that the key to success is attracting traffic into your store. Once this happens, you have the opportunity to sell them stuff by marketing your wares. Do some creative stuff, like buy one get one free, or a cigar of the month club, or a blind taste challenge. The sky's the limit.
Yeah, the risk is that there will be freeloaders, but there are creative ways of dealing with that as well.
In the end, this guy can't see the forest for the trees. He's missing a great opportunity to create customer loyalty. And instead, is alienating his most valuable customers.
But hey, it's his investment.


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## BlueHavanaII (Feb 2, 2007)

Shaz said:


> We can go back and forth forever on this, but the bottom line is the owner can run his business in any way he see's fit, within the law. His business will benifit or suffer as a result of his decisions.
> The purpose of having the lounge is to somehow increase his revenues. But the question is how will this happen? Each situation is different, but if he's paying rent, the floor space dedicated to the lounge would be fairly costly. I find it hard to imagine that the space would pay for itself based on the profits he would generate from the smokes purchased and smoked there. He would probably do better by using it for more retail space.
> 
> So the owner is missing the point of having the lounge. It's not in itself, a money making scheme. It's to create a warm, welcoming environment to attract new, and keep old customers. Any half assed businessman knows that the key to success is attracting traffic into your store. Once this happens, you have the opportunity to sell them stuff by marketing your wares. Do some creative stuff, like buy one get one free, or a cigar of the month club, or a blind taste challenge. The sky's the limit.
> ...


Well said! :tu


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## rolokatz (Dec 27, 2006)

I'm with Shaz on this one. if you've already spend the time to express your feelings to the proprietor, and he's told you it's all about the money - then take your money elsewhere. I (think) i understand some of the underlying issues: you spent your time and effort to build up his business. You feel you have a vested interest in his continued existance, therefore you invested in his business. You built a partnership. the problem appears to be that the proprietor didn't. He just saw you as another free-loader, or as someone else put it, a threat. And 'just another customer'... 

It also sounds like the proprietor isn't a 'user' of his own lounge, which probably makes him jealous of your social group. Or he may just be the envious type that sees someone else having a good time and wonders why it's not him having the good time too. giving you the 'special' status (which, imho, you deserved and a 'legitimate arrangement' could have been worked out so you weren't getting 'special' treatment, just getting treatment equal to your $4000/yr investment in his business) and then taking it away, AND following up each visit with a reminder (friendly or not) sounds like his way of making you 'just like everyone else'. Which means you aren't special anymore. and if he can't be special, neither can you... Petty, isn't it!

since it's 6 months later and you're still going there. you could consider suggesting to the owner some 'membership' or 'lounge usage' credits (like the tokens idea). for your case, if you spend $1000/yr on cigars, your 'daily usage/buy a cigar' fee is waived. In return, occaisionally smoke what he sells while your in his lounge. if you're buying $4000/yr of sticks from the guy, you've got to be smoking them somewhere! Tit for Tat (there's a joke in there somewhere, just can't remember it... )...

or just suck up and smoke what he sells - you'll still be top bananna in the shop and no matter what foolishness mr. proprietor tries, that won't change...

FWIW - i've got a B&M who charges $20 of smokes to use the lounge. I think it may include the clause that you smoke what you bought from there (not on that specific trip, but some purchase from them at some time). They also offer a $300/yr and $450/yr membership that has benefits of unlimited use of the 'outer lounge', the bonus of the 'inner lounge' and humidor/lockers for all of the members.


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## rolokatz (Dec 27, 2006)

and to answer the original question - YES!!! i'd definately feel betrayed and share your feelings about the place. like a friendship that suddenly turned sour. Or the girlfriend that suddenly starts talking about committment... it's just not that same 'happy ending' feeling anymore....


(married 15 yrs (to the same woman!!! ), 3 kids, 2 dogs, 5 cats, 1 geriatric hamster)


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## shakespeare (Mar 10, 2005)

I´d say express your views. If he doesn´t understand. Divorce the b"#$h and move on.


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