# Mail Order Cigar Companies are Going out of Business....



## humbertothehorrible

Yep...

Just imagine... I've been in this business since 1996... Had a good run, made a lot of friends and a few enemies.

My company engages in stiff competition with its competitors. We've had rivalries paralleling New York and Boston and price wars every time someone takes a daring leap to discount products further and deeper. Some of it has been stressful but most of it has been fun and worth the struggles to get your business.

But that will be all for naught in a very short time. Why? FDA...

Most people (inside and outside of this business) have failed to see the gravity of this situation. So let me make it clear..

*If the FDA gets their way, you will not be able to order your cigars online.* It's just that simple.

Of course, online stores will not be the only casualties. 
Walk-in humidors will be banned. You'll have to ask for your cigar by name to someone who will hand it to you. No more see, touch, smell. 
Manufacturers will have to submit cigars to the US government for testing. And they'll have to pay for the privilege. But they will not be allowed to advertise their products. New brands would be impossible to identify.

Sound like fiction? It's not..

Perhaps this is the wrong forum to post this in.. But it really won't matter in a few months, as FDA plans their assault on your cigars and my livelihood.

Want to know more???

The End of Cigars as We Know Them? | Famous Smoke Shop

Spread the word.. This is a fight where everyone must get involved.

Humberto


----------



## szyzk

To all my fellow BOTLs, this can't be said enough: _This is an important fight if you want to keep your cigar purchasing habits the way they are._ Your favorite retailers on down to your favorite cigar manufacturers could be affected by this, so do your research - find out if your elected officials are supporting or opposing this battle and send them an email voicing your opinion, concerns and any questions you have.

All of the information that you need can be found via the CRA website! Don't sit on this important matter, we as cigar enthusiasts need to stop the FDA from infringing on our hobby!


----------



## Oldmso54

I'm not the political afficianado but I did just join CRA to support what they are doing for us. We all should probably be more focused on this issue because if things go for the worst - we won't have easy access to cigars, much less a forum to discuss them.


----------



## CigarSnWhiskeY

just signed up! i hope this doesnt happen..


----------



## LLave

This is a very troubling issue. I am so sick of this moral legislation being pushed while the house burns down around them. 

I sent out emails to my representatives about a month back and received a few replies (which i would be happy to share if anyone wants to see them). The replies i received politely disagreed with me and stated their reasons for supporting the FDA. Though discouraging, i strongly suggest everyone write and express their opinions. Save the cigars.


----------



## humbertothehorrible

This is not only about your 'right' to enjoy a premium cigar. 

What about jobs? This industry supports thousands upon thousands of jobs. Not to mention third world countries whose economy relies heavily on tobacco. I just got back from Nicaragua where a single factory could employ upwards of 1000+ people!! Where will those people go when there are no jobs? You guessed it.. Across our borders.. But who can blame them? They gotta make a living.. We might as well just send an invite...

Incidentally.. These posts are voluntary and not here on anyone's behalf. I'm genuinely concerned over the future of this industry, my own livelihood and, most importantly, the welfare of my family. Without touting too much about Famous Smoke Shop (my employer), the ongoing FDA campaign and web site make it rather easy to spread the message. 

Humberto


----------



## Fury556

Here is the response I got from my state rep:

"Dear Mr. Fury556:

Thank you for contacting me regarding the regulation of premium cigars.

Cigar manufacturing has been a major industry in Florida for generations, producing thousands of jobs and over a billion dollars in economic activity. Small businesses, such as local cigar manufacturers, are vital to a sustainable economic recovery. That is why I recently introduced, along with Senator Marco Rubio, the Traditional Cigar Manufacturing and Small Business Jobs Preservation Act of 2011 (S.1461). This bipartisan bill would ensure Florida's premium cigar makers are not unduly burdened by additional Federal regulations.

S.1461 is pending before the Senate Committee on Health, Education, Labor and Pensions. Similar legislation has been introduced in the House of Representatives, with twelve Florida members signed on as cosponsors. I will continue to support S.1461 as it moves through the legislative process. Please do not hesitate to contact me in the future.

Sincerely,
Bill Nelson"

Sounds like he's on our side. Not sure about all the other states. Jose Oliva (r) , from the Oliva cigar family, is also one of our state reps here in Florida.


----------



## thegoldenmackid

For the record, Nelson introduced the bill in the Senate.

The house bill has 120 bipartisan supporters.
H.R. 1639: Traditional Cigar Manufacturing and Small Business Jobs Preservation Act of 2011 (GovTrack.us)
S. 1461: Traditional Cigar Manufacturing and Small Business Jobs Preservation Act of 2011 (GovTrack.us)


----------



## humbertothehorrible

Joe[/QUOTE]

I assure you... This is no marketing tactic to get you to buy more cigars

If we survive the FDA, Famous Smoke Shop will gladly broadcast some sort of gag around April 1st next year.. I'll see to it myself that we reel you in on a great deal.

But this is absolutely serious and not to be taken lightly.

Humberto


----------



## zenom

Next paycheck I am joining the CRA as well, I have also filled out the forms that have been advertised on numerous sites, emails etc.


----------



## imported_Mike_E

Ok...I just signed up and sent my info. Damn govt!


----------



## szyzk

Joe[/QUOTE]

Trust me, this is very real. Famous is a large mouthpiece for this movement because of the traffic their site gets and the amount of customers on their mailing list, but this is not a "cause" specific only to Famous.

The store I work at has been petitioning customers for over a month now...


----------



## quincy627

Already contacted my reps on this issue. Thanks for keeping it in the spotlight.


----------



## usrower321

Contacted Reps in Indiana and PA. 

It's scary seeing what has already happened in Australia with cigarettes. I know cigars and cigarettes are apples to oranges but they're all getting thrown in the same basket. I can't believe I'm actually afraid a hobby that adults have enjoyed for centuries and used to be considered what gentlemen do, is now being outlawed. 

I'm terrible at articulating my feelings but this just is ridiculous. It'll get off topic too so I won't.

If mail order cigar companies are done then I won't be able to afford our hobby. I'm only 22 and I never remember anyone I knew going into a B&M to buy cigars under 18...ya going for liquor, for swishers and for cigarettes but never cigars. They have always been something refined and to enjoy.


I want to see laws against purchasing a certain amount of fast food in a week and advertising before cigars.


----------



## szyzk

usrower321 said:


> If mail order cigar companies are done then I won't be able to afford our hobby.


It's not just mailorder companies... The FDA would want to turn B&Ms into "catalog showrooms", where you'd walk in and not be able to see or touch the cigars, just order them from a catalog and have them brought to you from the backroom warehouse. You also wouldn't be able to enjoy an on-site lounge as those would be prohibited.

This has very wide-reaching effects and I can't stress this enough - cigar smokers need to make their voices heard. Even if your Rep & Congressman are already supporting our side, it's still worthwhile letting them know your thoughts!


----------



## Enrique1780

This would be a major hit to the businesses involved as well as cigar fans. Thanks for the heads up.


----------



## usrower321

szyzk said:


> It's not just mailorder companies... The FDA would want to turn B&Ms into "catalog showrooms", where you'd walk in and not be able to see or touch the cigars, just order them from a catalog and have them brought to you from the backroom warehouse. You also wouldn't be able to enjoy an on-site lounge as those would be prohibited.
> 
> This has very wide-reaching effects and I can't stress this enough - cigar smokers need to make their voices heard. Even if your Rep & Congressman are already supporting our side, it's still worthwhile letting them know your thoughts!


I know Andrew, I mentioned the B&M's but I stressed mail order companies because their prices are what I can afford as a student. I want to support my local B&M in Indiana, but they charge 8 bucks for a hemingway short story (?!?!) so I go online. Hopefully when I'm done med school (well I need to get in there first) I'll be able to walk into a B&M and order boxes to support local businesses. That's if they'll still be around when I finish


----------



## szyzk

usrower321 said:


> I know Andrew, I mentioned the B&M's but I stressed mail order companies because their prices are what I can afford as a student. I want to support my local B&M in Indiana, but they charge 8 bucks for a hemingway short story (?!?!) so I go online. Hopefully when I'm done med school (well I need to get in there first) I'll be able to walk into a B&M and order boxes to support local businesses. That's if they'll still be around when I finish


Oh, I understand completely Brian and I was just quoting you to further the discussion here. I can't stress enough to anyone who comes across this thread that it's not just one segment of the industry that would be affected - it's everything from the top down. What's proposed by the FDA is an entire re-write of how cigars are produced and sold, and while I don't always feel the need to jump in and be politically active, this is a fight that I feel strongly about - and I hope others take it seriously!

As an aside, I really wish you had a fairly priced B&M to frequent! Having a face-to-face relationship with the guy selling you cigars is one of the best parts of this hobby!


----------



## IBEW

I sent out the emails and was happy to see very positive responses. In fact, my congressman, Ted Poe, replied that he was with us 100%. Now his reasons for support did not directly cite the cigar issues, the jobs at stake was his concern. I'm relieved to see the support!


----------



## MarkC

Yeah, as long as we have his support, I don't care if he just flipped a coin!


----------



## asmartbull

Boys, Boys, Boys,


Can we keep this on the OP's topic.
This is a serious subject, stay focused.

I don't want to close it !





Back to the regularly scheduled program


----------



## Rays98GoVols

quincy627 said:


> Already contacted my reps on this issue. Thanks for keeping it in the spotlight.


Same here. Thanks


----------



## usrower321

szyzk said:


> Oh, I understand completely Brian and I was just quoting you to further the discussion here. I can't stress enough to anyone who comes across this thread that it's not just one segment of the industry that would be affected - it's everything from the top down. What's proposed by the FDA is an entire re-write of how cigars are produced and sold, and while I don't always feel the need to jump in and be politically active, this is a fight that I feel strongly about - and I hope others take it seriously!
> 
> *As an aside, I really wish you had a fairly priced B&M to frequent! Having a face-to-face relationship with the guy selling you cigars is one of the best parts of this hobby!*


Me too! It would be great to actually talk to someone about the cigars and compare profiles, it just feels like I'm missing something without the camaraderie. Maybe I should call for all my internet orders haha. I'd love to try to call in a bid on the devil site, even though I don't frequent it anymore.

Back to topic... This law destroys jobs, tradition, and a hobby that 99.999% of the customers are responsible adults. OK...can't say the responsible part but at least adults that deserve to enjoy a hobby without their rights being impinged on.


----------



## Damselnotindistress

As we're seeing how protective of big business our current politicians are, it would seem they'd be consistent enough to add the tobacco business to their protectorate too. I'm not one who wants to see a lot of sacrifice of littler entities in defense of bigger ones, yet I don't see how it can be justified to do away with mail order smokes as well as our brick & mortar stores. Does this make sense, all??:ask:


----------



## MitchellF

I have sent letters to my congressman and senator. I live in North Carolina and tobacco has been a huge industry in this state. It is the sole cash crop for some farmers in this area. Of course our representatives are going to support the bill to stop this from happening. It is amazing how our government bows to pressure from just a handful of people wanting to outlaw all tobacco products. However, the taxes that the government makes on the product now are over the top. If everyone quit smoking there would be a large deficiency in tax revenues that would have to be made somewhere else. When they start taxing sodas and candy bars like they do tobacco people will start screaming and I will start laughing. They will get a taste of the taxes they have been imposing on tobacco users. If things get that bad they will open the doors for underground tobacco distributors just like the days of prohibition. Gangsters will start making huge profits, the government will lose large tax revenues and in fact it will cost them money paying law enforcement officers to enforce the new war on tobacco. Let them screw around, as long as there is a market for tobacco there will be someone to supply it. When will the government start using common sense instead of trying to please a handful of people that cannot stand to see other people enjoying themselves? If this law goes into effect there will also be a lot of people out of a job. Thats all Obama needs is more people in the unemployment line. The sad thing is that he does not give a damn about unemployment. The more people dependant on the government for an income the happier he is.


----------



## smelvis

Personally I would think the loss of tax revenues would be so huge it would give us some power yet for some reason it doesn't, what will they replace the loss revenue with? Yes I get the same letters. Though ours in WA instead changes the subject to how good they are doing for our Troops. without actually addressing the issues.


----------



## JasonI

My local B&M has been beating this drum for a while. I sent a physical letter to my congress critters but haven't heard back yet.


----------



## CigarVolante

Do you know that Google Checkout does not support payments for tobacco products including premium cigars. This could be a result of new government regulations regarding cigars, primarily small and flavored cigars but impacting premium cigars as collateral damage but could also be a result of the relationship between Google and the Obama Administration 

The ****** verbiage is somewhat less restrictive policy but also reserves the right not to support tobacco sales, as well:


The ****** User Agreement states that ******, at its sole discretion, reserves the right to limit an account for any violation of the User Agreement, including the Acceptable Use Policy.

Under the Acceptable Use Policy, ****** may not be used to send or receive payments for tobacco products, including cigarettes, cigars and smokeless tobacco due to legal requirements and industry regulations for online tobacco sales, unless you are pre-approved.

****** has suspended my account, effectively shutting down my online business until I find an alternative. In the meantime I am seeking approval from them, researching alternatives and alerting the CRA of yet another incursion into our right and ability to do business. 

Yet another hurdle.


----------



## CigarVolante

Did you know that Google Checkout does not support payments for tobacco products including premium cigars. This could be a result of new government regulations regarding cigars, primarily small and flavored cigars but impacting premium cigars as collateral damage but could also be a result of the relationship between Google and the Obama Administration Obama & Google (a love story) - Oct. 22, 2009 .

The ****** verbiage is somewhat less restrictive policy but also reserves the right not to support tobacco sales, as well:

The ****** User Agreement states that ******, at its sole discretion, reserves the right to limit an account for any violation of the User Agreement, including the Acceptable Use Policy.

Under the Acceptable Use Policy, ****** may not be used to send or receive payments for tobacco products, including cigarettes, cigars and smokeless tobacco due to legal requirements and industry regulations for online tobacco sales, unless you are pre-approved.

****** has suspended my account, effectively shutting down my online business until I find an alternative. In the meantime I am seeking approval from them, researching alternatives and alerting the CRA of yet another incursion into our right and ability to do business.

What will you do when they start restricting your business, as well?


----------



## CigarVolante

The asterisks are "Pay Pal" - not sure why that is a bad word ;-)


----------



## ejgarnut

Welcome to the USSA


----------



## Marlboro Cigars-cl

:mad2:


----------



## Steven

sknight said:


> Just joined CRA and sent emails from both my wife and I to our reps.


Same here, joined CRA and wrote to my reps, cept I wrote them letters. Letters and Faxes have more "impact". I'm semi into grassroots for NRA/TSRA stuff and we're always told letter and faxes hold more weight.


----------



## Hermit

Dear Mr. "Hermit":

Thank you for contacting me regarding H.R. 1639, the Traditional Cigar Manufacturing and Small Business Jobs Preservation Act of 2011. I am glad to hear from you and appreciate having the benefit of your views on this issue. 

In 2009, Congress passed the Tobacco Control Act providing the FDA with the authority to regulate certain tobacco products. The original intention of this legislation was to crack down on under-age access to tobacco by imposing stricter regulations on cigarettes, roll-your-own tobacco, and smokeless tobacco. Premium cigars were left out of the act as they are not widely used by minors or young adults. 

However, the FDA has recently signaled that it may expand the scope of these regulations to include premium cigars. Such overreach, in direct opposition to stated Congressional-intent, would threaten several community businesses and place a large part of the cigar industry at risk. Stricter regulations would restrict consumer choice and costs hundreds of American jobs. For these reasons, I am a proud cosponsor of H.R. 1639 and am actively pushing for its enactment. 

H.R. 1639 seeks to prevent this overregulation by reinforcing the Tobacco Control Act and making sure the FDA remains with its proper regulatory boundaries. Currently, it has been referred to the U.S. House Committee on Energy and Commerce where it awaits further action. Though I do not sit on this committee, please rest assured that I will continue to pursue avenues to move this legislation forward. 

Again, thank you for contacting me. It is an honor to serve as your Representative in Congress. If there is ever anything else I can do to be of service, please do not hesitate to contact me again.

Respectfully,

Jeff Landry
Member of Congress


----------



## CigarVolante

I spent the day finding alternatives to my Pay-Pal online payment alternative. The big player in the market is Authorize.net and I got conflicting reports regarding their willingness to process payments for tobacco. That remains an open issue but I did investigate several of their resellers finding that there would be significant additional overhead beyond what I was paying with Pay-Pal. I also got a recommendation from CRA, US Merchant Services. Steve Norell with USMS called and explained the legal terrain and the options. It seems that MasterCard is the bad guy in all of this and that, in order to process tobacco purchases through MC you have to pay an upfront fee of $1000. If I chose not to accept MasterCards the fees seemed much more reasonable. That was an easy decision.

In the meantime I heard back from ****** with much the same story. Unlike Google, they will support tobacco purchases but with the same MasterCard caveat. I have reopened my store with Pay-Pal and, when we complete my new storefront, we will be adding USMC to ****** to give a more traditional option.

I found that I have no MasterCard in my wallet but, had there been, I would have cut it up. I will not be using Google Checkout and will start looking for alternatives to Google. I may end up with an iPhone rather than my Android. We are voting with our dollars. Google and MasterCard are not supporting the tobacco industry and we should consider not supporting them as well. What's in your wallet?


----------



## StogieNinja

I'm a big fan of Famous-Smoke and their advocacy on this issue.

Frankly, even when I wasn't a smoker I was staunchly opposed to the anti-tobacco legislation, both regarding the labels and the banning of smoking in public areas. I'm all for the health warnings that stated facts on cigarette boxes. There's a vast difference between honestly disclosing clearly the real health risks, and forced anti-tobacco advocacy. I voted against the smoking ban in WA. I felt it was drastically too restrictive. No smoking near entrances to, or inside of, government-owned buildings? Sure. Private store owners want to regulate smoking or no smoking inside their premises and on their property? Great. But legally _banning_ smoking in any private establishment open to the public? Going way to far. Forcing anti-smoking advocacy labels on boxes? Going way to far.

This FDA thing is another thing altogether. It makes the previous two issues seem like less than nothing. I sent letters to my reps several months back, but will type and mail physical letters to their offices later this week. If you love your cigars, or even if you just kind of like them but love living in a free country... then you need to write letters. Now.


----------



## humbertothehorrible

Ladies and Gentlemen...

If ever there was a time to voice your opinion on this issue, now would be it..

According to the following article, the FDA will stop listening after December 8th..

Cigars | FDA | Obama Administration | Regulations | The Daily Caller

Also, for whatever it's worth, this thread was started in a much more actively visited section of this forum. The purpose was to get the message out to as many people as possible. Though I understand the rules of the forum dictate to put matters like these in appropriate locations, I kindly ask for better presence on this issue. After all, what will you guys talk about and where will you get your cigars if the FDA gets what they want?

Humberto


----------



## Hermit

Federal Judge Upholds NYC Flavor Ban Ordinance


----------



## humbertothehorrible

Hermit said:


> Federal Judge Upholds NYC Flavor Ban Ordinance


This is somewhat related to the original topic.. NYC upholds a ban on flavored cigars.

Yet, nothing compared to what FDA will do to the industry on a national level.


----------



## CigarVolante

We got somebody's attention:

Cigars | FDA | Obama Administration | Regulations | The Daily Caller

Keep it up!


----------



## Enrique1780

CigarVolante said:


> We got somebody's attention:
> 
> Cigars | FDA | Obama Administration | Regulations | The Daily Caller
> 
> Keep it up!


Good article. Stumbled upon it the other day.


----------



## alyons108

Hi, all. When I sent my legislators my request to stop this FDA overreach, my senator from WI (Ron Johnson) sent me a bland email that basically said, I don't have a position on this issue--there are hundreds of issues we have to deal with--if it comes to the floor of the senate, I'll deal with it then.


----------



## TommyTree

Ron, it just has to be pre-approved, which generally means that you have to show proof that you are paying all applicable federal taxes. The laws about mailing cigarettes were put in place as a tax issue, not a tobacco issue. The government wasn't getting its full share of its legally demanded taxes on (usually stolen) cigarettes. This is actually proof that the government is more interested in your tax money than in getting rid of tobacco.


----------

