# Removed Boveda's from my tupperdor.



## Del Fuego (Mar 29, 2017)

I was noticing that some of my cigars are smoking a touch more bitter than they should be. Thinking that maybe the Rh is too high, I decided to remove the Boveda 65 leaving no humidification inside to see what would happen.

It's been holding solid at 69 Rh for 7 days and I've opened it three times. I know that the Boveda is two-way so it's supposed to absorb Rh spikes and keep it balanced, but man I'm really surprised to see it just sitting at 69 for a whole week with nothing but cigars and some cedar on the inside.

I'm gonna wait till it drops down to 65.


----------



## cigarsinmypipe (Jan 26, 2017)

That's interesting. I was in a hurry one day and grabbed a cigar for the ride and left my humidor open all day. Just sitting there lid up when I came home. Closed it and checked the hygrometer after a couple of hours and it was at 67. Couldn't believe it.

Sent from my Z981 using Tapatalk


----------



## StillPuffin (Jan 26, 2017)

It's like throwing a wet shirt on the floor. Still wet later. Takes a bit of time for a mass of cigars to lose significant rh.

Good thing too because I too have forgot to close the lid. That would be a very expensive mistake. 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Three Lions (Jul 13, 2017)

I had a similar experience when I decided to drop my tupperdor from 69% to 65%. They make a very good seal and so you'll find the RH won't drop much at all for weeks. I would suggest putting the 65% Bovedas back in - as many as you have. They will absorb the moisture and speed up the process. I have weighed my Bovedas and seen them get heavier as they lower the RH. I plan to do a post on this experience shortly.

What is the ambient humidity in the room where you store your tupperdor?

TL


----------



## Thig (May 10, 2017)

With the humidity we have been having in Middle Georgia lately if I left the top off the rh would go up I am sure.


----------



## Del Fuego (Mar 29, 2017)

Three Lions said:


> I had a similar experience when I decided to drop my tupperdor from 69% to 65%. They make a very good seal and so you'll find the RH won't drop much at all for weeks. I would suggest putting the 65% Bovedas back in - as many as you have. They will absorb the moisture and speed up the process. I have weighed my Bovedas and seen them get heavier as they lower the RH. I plan to do a post on this experience shortly.
> 
> What is the ambient humidity in the room where you store your tupperdor?
> 
> TL


I keep the tupperware (Sistema) in a thermoelectric wine cooler at 65 degrees.

To keep the Rh spikes down, I had a small tube of heartfelt beads in there. I removed those as well however. I thought for sure the Rh would drop down after a week, but it hasn't. I'm dryboxing my daily smokes to help em along.


----------



## Three Lions (Jul 13, 2017)

Del Fuego said:


> I keep the tupperware (Sistema) in a thermoelectric wine cooler at 65 degrees.
> 
> To keep the Rh spikes down, I had a small tube of heartfelt beads in there. I removed those as well however. I thought for sure the Rh would drop down after a week, but it hasn't. I'm dryboxing my daily smokes to help em along.


In a sealed tupperware the RH won't go down much in a week. I suggest adding back the 65% Bovedas.

TL


----------



## Del Fuego (Mar 29, 2017)

Three Lions said:


> In a sealed tupperware the RH won't go down much in a week. I suggest adding back the 65% Bovedas.
> 
> TL


Because they are sitting at 69%, if I put the Boveda back in it might slow down the process of lowering the cigars themselves to 65%. I think I'm better off opening the tupperware every day or so to let out the humidity.


----------



## FMichael (Aug 7, 2016)

Three Lions said:


> I had a similar experience when I decided to drop my tupperdor from 69% to 65%. They make a very good seal and so you'll find the RH won't drop much at all for weeks. I would suggest putting the 65% Bovedas back in - as many as you have. They will absorb the moisture and speed up the process. I have weighed my Bovedas and seen them get heavier as they lower the RH. I plan to do a post on this experience shortly.
> 
> What is the ambient humidity in the room where you store your tupperdor?
> 
> TL


Once again - massive props to those here who got me into the idea of trying out a 'tupperdor'.

My 2.5 gallon Rubbermaid 'Lock-Its' now has 90 something gars in it...With 4 Boveda 69% RH - my hygrometer still reads 67%.


----------



## Three Lions (Jul 13, 2017)

Del Fuego said:


> Because they are sitting at 69%, if I put the Boveda back in it might slow down the process of lowering the cigars themselves to 65%. I think I'm better off opening the tupperware every day or so to let out the humidity.


On the contrary - the 65% Bovedas will absorb moisture and speed up the process of lowering the moisture content in your cigars. I've watched it happening and weighed the Bovedas - watching it go up as they absorb water.

Opening your tupperdor once a day will do practically nothing to help. The amount of moisture removed during the air exchange will be negligible compared to what is in the cigars. I've run the calculations as well as trying it myself.

TL


----------



## KelsoChris (Dec 5, 2016)

My humi has sat at 68% to 70% since I got my hygrometer. No bovida or gel. I had started with sponges soaked with distilled water but I had a couple of cigars get moldy. Took the sponges out and simply spritz the cedar lining every couple of weeks with distilled water.


----------



## Three Lions (Jul 13, 2017)

KelsoChris said:


> My humi has sat at 68% to 70% since I got my hygrometer. No bovida or gel. I had started with sponges soaked with distilled water but I had a couple of cigars get moldy. Took the sponges out and simply spritz the cedar lining every couple of weeks with distilled water.


Well, the popular saying on this forum is "whatever works for you." I must admit I'm puzzled why people spend money on cigars, money on humidors and don't want to spend a few more bucks on something that will keep their cigars in perfect smoking condition. Ah well, each to their own...

TL


----------



## talisker10 (Nov 6, 2015)

Del Fuego said:


> I keep the tupperware (Sistema) in a thermoelectric wine cooler at 65 degrees.
> 
> To keep the Rh spikes down, I had a small tube of heartfelt beads in there. I removed those as well however. I thought for sure the Rh would drop down after a week, but it hasn't. I'm dryboxing my daily smokes to help em along.


Seems to me that 65rh at 65F is too wet for your taste preference. The colder the storage environment, the wetter the cigars will smoke, because the water vapor will bind to the cigars, specially in a sealed tupperware. Can you raise the temp of your wineador to 70 F? or lower your boveda to 62rh? you need to experiment to find your sweet spot.

Alternately, kitty litter in the tupperware might help absorb extra moisture a bit faster.


----------



## LeatherNeck (Feb 8, 2017)

Three Lions said:


> On the contrary - the 65% Bovedas will absorb moisture and speed up the process of lowering the moisture content in your cigars. I've watched it happening and weighed the Bovedas - watching it go up as they absorb water.
> 
> Opening your tupperdor once a day will do practically nothing to help. The amount of moisture removed during the air exchange will be negligible compared to what is in the cigars. I've run the calculations as well as trying it myself.
> 
> TL


I absolutely agree that there needs to be something in there to suck out the moisture. Those cigars are sitting in that moisture 24/7; 5, 20, or 60 minutes of air exchange daily will not do much in the way of lowering the RH of overly wet cigars. With the current method, I suspect that it will take at minimum 4-6 weeks to drop and stabilize the RH by 3%.



talisker10 said:


> Seems to me that 65rh at 65F is too wet for your taste preference. The colder the storage environment, the wetter the cigars will smoke, because the water vapor will bind to the cigars, specially in a sealed tupperware. Can you raise the temp of your wineador to 70 F? or lower your boveda to 62rh? you need to experiment to find your sweet spot.
> 
> Alternately, kitty litter in the tupperware might help absorb extra moisture a bit faster.


I very much agree with your assessment that the low temp at 65% RH is the culprit. KL, IMHO, would be the best option here if he wants to remove several percentages of RH at a high rate.


----------



## LeatherNeck (Feb 8, 2017)

KelsoChris said:


> My humi has sat at 68% to 70% since I got my hygrometer. No bovida or gel. I had started with sponges soaked with distilled water but I had a couple of cigars get moldy. Took the sponges out and simply spritz the cedar lining every couple of weeks with distilled water.


I'm so perplexed at the logic and method of humidification you are using. Your RH percentages are going to be all over the place constantly. Continuous spikes and drops in RH will not be kind to your investment. You spent hard earned money on those cigars and yet you are choosing the cheapest, least stable way of storage.
That said, what really floors me is when you said: 
"I had started with sponges soaked with distilled water but I had a couple of cigars get moldy. Took the sponges out and simply spritz the cedar lining every couple of weeks with distilled water."
So lemme get this straight, you had soaked sponges:vs_no_no_no: that caused mold growth:doh: so you know spray the lining of the humi with water?:banghead: If you don't understand the issue I'm trying to point out, I would suggest you do some more reading on how to PROPERLY store cigars as well as how NOT to treat you humidor. If not, you will constantly have issues and loss of your investment.


----------



## Del Fuego (Mar 29, 2017)

talisker10 said:


> Seems to me that 65rh at 65F is too wet for your taste preference. The colder the storage environment, the wetter the cigars will smoke, because the water vapor will bind to the cigars, specially in a sealed tupperware. Can you raise the temp of your wineador to 70 F? or lower your boveda to 62rh? you need to experiment to find your sweet spot.
> 
> Alternately, kitty litter in the tupperware might help absorb extra moisture a bit faster.


Solid advice. My hygrometer finally dipped down to 67 last night, so I put the Boveda's back in. I'll pick up some 62's and raise the temp to 70. My only concern with 70 is beetles.


----------



## scott1256ca (Jan 4, 2017)

> So lemme get this straight, you had soaked sponges:vs_no_no_no: that caused mold growth:doh: so you know spray the lining of the humi with water?:banghead:


Yeah, this has me wondering. Nothing here looks like any procedure I've ever heard recommended. Just the opposite.
1. Put sponges in water in with cigars ... no
2. Spray inside of humidor with water on regular basis ... no

Please invest in either beads or a couple of boveda packs and try to hit 65% RH before you consider adjusting. I think your problems will go away. Sorry about the moldy cigars, but I think that is a foreseeable consequence if you put sponges and water in your humidor with your cigars.


----------



## LeatherNeck (Feb 8, 2017)

Del Fuego said:


> Solid advice. My hygrometer finally dipped down to 67 last night, so I put the Boveda's back in. I'll pick up some 62's and raise the temp to 70. My only concern with 70 is beetles.


Nah, 70° F is perfectly fine. Anything above 75 for extended periods of time is problematic. IMO


----------



## Del Fuego (Mar 29, 2017)

LeatherNeck said:


> Nah, 70° F is perfectly fine. Anything above 75 for extended periods of time is problematic. IMO


I just checked my wine cooler and unfortunately it tops out at 65. I'll drop the 62 boveda's in there anyway and give it a go.


----------



## Cigary (Oct 19, 2007)

I can't even begin to say how much disinformation is going on in this thread as far as RH and temps and media's being applied in such a bassackward way...so much conflicting activities that it would take a team of cigarologists to figure it out.

There is a basic and fundamental way of storing cigars that has been mismanaged ....even if the RH manages to get to 65% it's because the Cigar Gods intervened and made it happen...truly one of the most convoluted and bizzare threads I've read in years. 

Prayers sent to get this experiment on track.🤔


----------



## JtAv8tor (Apr 12, 2017)

Cigary said:


> I can't even begin to say how much disinformation is going on in this thread as far as RH and temps and media's being applied in such a bassackward way...so much conflicting activities that it would take a team of cigarologists to figure it out.
> 
> There is a basic and fundamental way of storing cigars that has been mismanaged ....even if the RH manages to get to 65% it's because the Cigar Gods intervened and made it happen...truly one of the most convoluted and bizzare threads I've read in years.
> 
> Prayers sent to get this experiment on track.












Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## Cigary (Oct 19, 2007)

If only they came in suppository form it would bring relief in minutes....just like my tequila.


----------



## LeatherNeck (Feb 8, 2017)

Cigary said:


> I can't even begin to say how much disinformation is going on in this thread as far as RH and temps and media's being applied in such a bassackward way...so much conflicting activities that it would take a team of cigarologists to figure it out.
> 
> There is a basic and fundamental way of storing cigars that has been mismanaged ....even if the RH manages to get to 65% it's because the Cigar Gods intervened and made it happen...truly one of the most convoluted and bizzare threads I've read in years.
> 
> Prayers sent to get this experiment on track.&#129300;


They'll get it....eventually.


----------



## Bird-Dog (Oct 16, 2009)

Cigary said:


> I can't even begin to say how much disinformation is going on in this thread as far as RH and temps and media's being applied in such a bassackward way...so much conflicting activities that it would take a team of cigarologists to figure it out.
> 
> There is a basic and fundamental way of storing cigars that has been mismanaged ....even if the RH manages to get to 65% it's because the Cigar Gods intervened and made it happen...truly one of the most convoluted and bizzare threads I've read in years.
> 
> Prayers sent to get this experiment on track.��


Like so many others, I think the OP is having a hard time separating the different components of a "cigararium" in his mind. Remember OP, a humidor is just a humidor. What you're trying establish is a stable contained system made up of several components; what I jokingly referred to as a "cigararium".

1) Air - The RH of air can be changed very quickly. It's also what we measure with hygrometers. Air is merely the vehicle we use to transport humidity back and forth from other components of the system such as humidifiers, cigars, and wood.

2) Humidifier - The media you use to add moisture to the system can be as simple as a wet sponge or as complicated as an electronic humidifier. It's entire purpose is to add moisture to the air, when needed, which in turn will slowly add moisture to your cigars and buffer (if present). The problem is, without some way of stopping it from adding moisture or offsetting it (see 2a), it's unlikely to create a stable system.

2a) Dehumidifier - So, how do we keep the RH in your "cigararium from just getting higher and higher? Fortunately we live in a golden age for this. Silica based products such as Heartfelt beads (HF) and crystal type kitty litter (KL), or Boveda packs represent two-way media that can act as both humidifiers and dehumidifiers - add moisture and absorb it, ideally to a predetermined RH%. This may be optional, though still highly desirable, in a wooden humidor that leaks or off-gasses enough moisture to create its own offset. But I would go so far as to say it's absolutely necessary in airtight containers such as tupperdors. For the most part, two-way media is all you need, but it's certainly possible to use it as a control in concert with other types (for example, a Cigar Oasis electronic humidifier along with a tray of dry KL in a large cabinet humidor). BTW, do not mistake polymers like gel beads as two-way media, regardless of (false) claims to the contrary.

3) Buffer (optional) - Generally when wood is present it's to act as a buffer. It retains moisture infinitely better than air. So, when you open your humidor and fresh air flows in, the buffer helps to re-stabilize RH afterwards. However, wood absorbs moisture much slower than air, unless soaked which is inadvisable for several reasons, the most notable being warping. When we season a humidor it's to saturate the wood, preferably passively over time. Measuring the RH of the air does not tell you the RH of the wood. If you over-saturate the wood it can take considerable time for it lose it. And while losing it, not only is the RH of the air is raised, but the excess moisture needs someplace to go (think HF, KL, Bovedas). Same is true in reverse. It takes considerable time for wood to passively absorb moisture, and that moisture must come from somewhere. The higher the RH of the air, the quicker the wood can be seasoned. But, we don't want to go too far either. That's why it is recommended that seasoning take place before cigars are added to the system.

4) Cigars - Ah, the true purpose of the whole endeavor! And yet, the cigars themselves are part of the system, acting much like the buffer in that they retain moisture, gaining and losing it only slowly over time. If you put "wet" cigars in your already stable system they are going to need to lose some moisture before come back into equilibrium. Suppose you do so, but there is no dehumidifying agent present? Well,, then you can only go so far. For example, let's say you put a good handful of cigars that have been stored long-term at 72% RH into your 100-ct humidor that's been relatively stable at 65%. But, you're only using a sponge-type humidifier and you close the humidor up expecting everything to work itself out. You check a day later and your hygrometer reads 66%. You think, ah, that's good my new cigars are ready to smoke. But not sot fast! If we had a way to measure the RH of the cigars we'd probably find they are still at 72%, or at best now at 71%. Rule-of-thumb is that it takes a week for cigars to lose 1% of RH... and that in a stable system. It's just that pesky problem of the air absorbing or losing moisture so, so, so much quicker than solid substances like tightly rolled tobacco or close grained wood that perplexes most people new to cigar storage. Try to think of it like baking a cake. When you put a pan of raw cake batter in the oven, the oven may be 350°F, but that does not mean the cake batter is instantly raised to that temperature. It takes time. And it takes even longer, much longer, for cigars and air to reach the same RH.

I could go on and on trying to explain all the different scenarios. But the fundamental lessons to remember are 1) that when we measure the air in our "cigararium" we are not necessarily measuring the current moisture content of our cigars unless they have had a very long time to reach equilibrium -and- 2) that the different components of our system do different jobs, have different rates of change, and require considerable time to reach equilibrium with each other.


----------



## scott1256ca (Jan 4, 2017)

> They'll get it....eventually.


Not all of us. I used to be smart. Those days are gone. I'll go to my grave having learned a lot less than I should have.


----------



## UBC03 (Nov 18, 2015)

Cigary said:


> If only they came in suppository form it would bring relief in minutes....just like my tequila.


Tequila suppositories.. I'm sure someone's makin em..

As far as this thread.. It's like everyone is playin how complicated can we make this shi, I mean stuff.

Sent from my SM-G925V using Tapatalk


----------



## Cigary (Oct 19, 2007)

UBC03 said:


> Tequila suppositories.. I'm sure someone's makin em..
> 
> As far as this thread.. It's like everyone is playin how complicated can we make this shi, I mean stuff.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G925V using Tapatalk


I checked....nobody makes em but the thought occurred to me that somebody should tap into this unchecked market where the victim...er....consumer wouldn't have to drink themselves silly as one shooter would give them the same results as 6.

Thank you Jack for writing that up....I was going to answer the same way but knew that it would be a long winded post and you know how I love doing that but you nailed it again in the first paragraph....and how many scenarios there could be when setting things in motion. I just didn't have the mental processes available to me to answer it like you did....but that's what I would have posted had my brain not melted down. :surprise:


----------



## LeatherNeck (Feb 8, 2017)

curmudgeonista said:


> Like so many others, I think the OP is having a hard time separating the different components of a "cigararium" in his mind. Remember OP, a humidor is just a humidor. What you're trying establish is a stable contained system made up of several components; what I jokingly referred to as a "cigararium".
> 
> 1) Air - The RH of air can be changed very quickly. It's also what we measure with hygrometers. Air is merely the vehicle we use to transport humidity back and forth from other components of the system such as humidifiers, cigars, and wood.
> 
> ...


Jack, if you don't mind, please copy and paste this in your notepad so that next this topic comes up you have quick access to the perfect response without having to type it out every time. 
(when I say next time, I really mean tomorrow)


----------



## Cigary (Oct 19, 2007)

LeatherNeck said:


> Jack, if you don't mind, please copy and paste this in your notepad so that next this topic comes up you have quick access to the perfect response without having to type it out every time.
> (when I say next time, I really mean tomorrow)


This post will be around in perpetuity for anyone to copy and paste but.....just like the Rules we have here most won't read them and it will take a rinse/repeat performance to get the point across....kind of like perpetual GroundHog Day.:wink2:


----------



## Bird-Dog (Oct 16, 2009)

Cigary said:


> This post will be around in perpetuity for anyone to copy and paste but.....just like the Rules we have here most won't read them and it will take a rinse/repeat performance to get the point across....kind of like perpetual GroundHog Day.:wink2:


Too long winded anyway. I'm sure it would be better boiled down to essentials. Then allow implications to be discussed separately. I'm afraid I tried to roll it all into one, and still didn't fully cover the subject. Should have included "Container" as one of the components too - doh! I need to try to remember good essay construction I teach my kids - big picture first, then the details - doh again!

But I do think the concept that people new to cigar storage have the hardest time grasping is realizing the RH of the air is on a whole different timeline from moisture content cigars, and of course, wood when seasoning. How many times have we seen people talk about "seasoning" their bare-bones plastic tupper that has nothing in it; an obvious misunderstanding of what seasoning a wood humidor is all about.


----------



## Cigary (Oct 19, 2007)

curmudgeonista said:


> Too long winded anyway. I'm sure it would be better boiled down to essentials. Then allow implications to be discussed separately. I'm afraid I tried to roll it all into one, and still didn't fully cover the subject. Should have included "Container" as one of the components too - doh! I need to try to remember good essay construction I teach my kids - big picture first, then the details - doh again!
> 
> But I do think the concept that people new to cigar storage have the hardest time grasping is realizing the RH of the air is on a whole different timeline from moisture content cigars, and of course, wood when seasoning. How many times have we seen people talk about "seasoning" their bare-bones plastic tupper that has nothing in it; an obvious misunderstanding of what seasoning a wood humidor is all about.


I'm gonna sit in the nose-bleed seats and watch. I did a search here on Puff using KEY WORDS like ...How to Season a Humidor....Tupperadors....Bovedas....and there is a ton of info as a guide to set things up...how to use Medias like Bovedas, KL...etc.

Then there is always Googling this subject matter where one can get lost in tons of threads/posts ....but it's just basic fundamentals of achieving a desired RH. When I Googled this subject matter it had so much info ( both relevant and irrelevant ) that my brain almost melted. I thought about doing what you did, Jack....just start with Step 1 and then keep going until the last step but I went back to ALL of my posts and read them and I must have addressed this more than a dozen times...explaining in detail the HOW TO's....but alas here in 2017 it's a continual thing where people still have issues with this phenomena of HOW TO achieve proper RH/Storage...

http://www.cigarforums.net/articles/storing-cigars-for-optimal-quality/


----------



## Bird-Dog (Oct 16, 2009)

Cigary said:


> I'm gonna sit in the nose-bleed seats and watch. I did a search here on Puff using KEY WORDS like ...How to Season a Humidor....Tupperadors....Bovedas....and there is a ton of info as a guide to set things up...how to use Medias like Bovedas, KL...etc.
> 
> Then there is always Googling this subject matter where one can get lost in tons of threads/posts ....but it's just basic fundamentals of achieving a desired RH. When I Googled this subject matter it had so much info ( both relevant and irrelevant ) that my brain almost melted. I thought about doing what you did, Jack....just start with Step 1 and then keep going until the last step but I went back to ALL of my posts and read them and I must have addressed this more than a dozen times...explaining in detail the HOW TO's....but alas here in 2017 it's a continual thing where people still have issues with this phenomena of HOW TO achieve proper RH/Storage...
> 
> Storing Cigars for Optimal Quality | Puff.com


Yep, there's a whole lot of "what" out there already; as in "what to do and not do". I figure the problem must be not enough "why". You can tell, even when they start off doing the right "what" they end up going astray because they never understood the "why"... IMESHO (in my ever-so-humble opinion).


----------

