# Pipe "psuedo-elitism" or hoping for a higher standard....



## Kayak_Rat (Nov 28, 2005)

Saw this mentioned in another thread and believe it deserves an open discussion. 

I agree 100% with how Bongoy stated it. There are people out there who actually come to the site for information, not just to BS around. Being able to make friends and carry on conversation is an added bonus. As a member of the pipe forum, I expect myself, as well as others to be held to a higher standard. Just because Greg stepped down as a Mod doesn't mean the pipe section should go the way of the rest of CS. Sifting through 15 posts to find one that is still on topic is a pain in the ass to say the least. 

Elitism......I believe if you see us as elitists, you havent taken nor spent the time in the pipe forum that is required to understand how we prefer things to be.

Just my :2


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## LasciviousXXX (Oct 12, 2004)

Hey there Rookie Rat 

Since it was me you're quoting I'll weigh in on this one. 

Please understand I was definitely not trying to imply that all or even members of the Pipe Forum were this way. What I was referring to were the vocal "few" who have made it their personal goal to discourage anything that they believe doesn't fall within "their" view of how CS should be.

I was voicing my concern because part of that has become to discourage others from posting questions, posting too much, posting something non-cigar related etc etc. I saw it as harmful to CS in that it discourages members both old and new from posting for fear that they might fall into the category of what a few consider wrong.

I admire and respect everyone in the Pipe Forums and am very good friends with most of you guys. I lurk here a lot and learn but since I don't smoke a pipe I rarely if ever post here. I respect what is being done in here and appreciate those who do it. Lately I had just seen a resurgence in the types of posts described above and to be honest with you it made me sad.


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## LasciviousXXX (Oct 12, 2004)

Just wanted to add as well that I don't consider most of the Pipe guys to be elitists at all in any sense of the word. I was again referring to those certain few who I see as becoming elitist in a different sense of the word that's all.


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## [OT] Loki (May 24, 2006)

i personally like the difference between the pipe section and the rest of cs. but that's just me


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## DubintheDam (Jun 5, 2007)

I think we should all be a little more thoughtful and focused on what we write, it's up to all of us to keep the 'content' of the forum to a worthy and worthwhile level...we can only but benefit ourselves in this process...of course it's fine to 'shoot the sh*t', but with a little more effort and awareness of what we as individuals add the 'sh*t' is easier to swallow...I particularly liked the recent post on Sherlock Holmes passages, if we don't feel we are a Hemingway or a Mark Twain we can easily pinch that 'worthy' content from elsewhere...that said I consider myself a contributor much in need of improvement...you can quote me on that. dub


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## LasciviousXXX (Oct 12, 2004)

And I totally respect that Lok. I really do. You guys have a different set of rules down here and that's cool with me. Like I said I was mainly speaking to the few who are taking not-so-thinly veiled shots at the establishment elsewhere on the board. They just happened to have been Pipe guys that's all my friend


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## Kayak_Rat (Nov 28, 2005)

LasciviousXXX said:


> And I totally respect that Lok. I really do. You guys have a different set of rules down here and that's cool with me. Like I said I was mainly speaking to the few who are taking not-so-thinly veiled shots at the establishment elsewhere on the board. They just happened to have been Pipe guys that's all my friend


And I believed thats how you meant it Dustin. I honestly have seen a few "edged" posts and have contributed a few myself. I just wanted to have a thread where everyone knew the others thoughts on the subject. An online forum can lead alot to the imagination.......even if you know the person well.

I also wanted for the new members, who might think we are all British(no offense intended) a-holes who set around discussing the value of the dollar to the yen all day, where we come from and why we might come off a tad harsh. Again just clearing the air.


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## DubintheDam (Jun 5, 2007)

I PM'd IHT once with regard to this 'standards' matter in the past. I said then, I feel Ring Guage is a great tool to break-in the newbies...if we see someone has taken the time to downlaod fotos we all love to see...or who bring up interesting info or questions we should Ring Guage that almost before we respond in post...it's a way of giving a pat on the back and an indication of what we 'other' members like to see...


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## smokinmojo (Jan 24, 2005)

Kayak_Rat said:


> I just wanted to have a thread where everyone knew the others thoughts on the subject. An online forum can lead alot to the imagination.


Exactly. When a thread that started as a pat on the back for a member and turned sarcastic and subsequently locked down. (I'm sure the right time to do that is one of the many many difficult decisions of the adm.) It has left a bad taste in the mouth of more than a few members.

Perhaps cool heads and well thought posts will prevail. (as i expect will) and this will run its course.


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## JacksonCognac (Nov 12, 2007)

As a newer member I like how the pipe forum is in terms of content... things aren't super fast paced and clogged with a bunch of useless stuff. I'd like to see it stay on that path.


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## Mad Hatter (Apr 8, 2007)

Yeah I don't quite understand the "elitism" thing. IMO, what goes on in the pipe forum is completely different from the rest of the board and I couldn't care less what people say in other forums,; when they come to the pipe forum, all that matters is we all smoke a pipe. I know there are lots of guys who do hold those grudges and I think its a shame but if that's how they want to be then that's their choice.

As for repetitive posts from new members, well if you just sit and read old posts it doesn't do much for building friendships or making a community IMO


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## tzilt (Nov 20, 2007)

I am a newish member here but here is my 2 cents...

I think repetitive posts are par for the course for any forum that encourages new members. And often, even though a question has already been asked in a older thread, when the question is asked again it might be answered in a different way. 

Plus I also think new members might sorta need to ask repeat questions. What else is a new pipe smoker going to talk about? Most obvious questions have been asked already, there is no way around that. It would be kinda boring if a new member lurked for 5 years until he thought of a question that no one else has thought of. 

I've noticed that the pipe forum doesn't have a 'Guidelines' sticky. If the general expectations of this area are different from the other CS forums maybe it would only be fair to post what those expectations are? Maybe thats why people get a little cranky about it....they feel kinda blindsided when they come in the pipe section and get scolded (however gently) for not posting the 'right way' when they had no idea what the right way was. If there was a general guidelines sticky then at least they could have a fighting chance. 

As for elitism and grudges and whatnot...for what its worth I haven't noticed any of that, so either I am blissfully oblivious, or it all goes on behind the scenes. 

:2p


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## jgros001 (Jun 14, 2005)

If it is elitist to hope that a new member or someone new to this section might do a little research as to how the board conducts itself, well then I guess I am an elitist. More often than not it will be silence coming from me or negative RG. 

I find it odd though that at one point there is talk of community and in the next breath it is talk of the establishment. Also, we have handled ourselves pretty good down here but it is upsetting when there is a thread and members of the board who do not regularly post down here put in their comments and then shut that thread down.


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## smokehouse (Jan 31, 2007)

Why can't we all just get along? p


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## Silky01 (Jul 16, 2007)

Mad Hatter said:


> Yeah I don't quite understand the "elitism" thing. IMO, what goes on in the pipe forum is completely different from the rest of the board and I couldn't care less what people say in other forums,; when they come to the pipe forum, all that matters is we all smoke a pipe. I know there are lots of guys who do hold those grudges and I think its a shame but if that's how they want to be then that's their choice.
> 
> _ As for repetitive posts from new members, well if you just sit and read old posts it doesn't do much for building friendships or making a community IMO_


I admit, that sometimes I hate seeing repetitive posts, especially about something new in the cigar forums that are just beaten to death (ie, Nub threads). I've found though that I like the pipe repeats, as I've found I enjoy reiterating what I like and what I've learned, and the repetition helps make me "learn" the pipe more. If it's something wrong, someone can always correct me and I can then pass that information along at a later time. 
I really think the pipe forum is great. I have no one around me to teach me how to smoke the pipe. I've found everything I need to know here, from start to finish, with the help of each one of you. That's what I find refreshing about this place.


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## IHT (Dec 27, 2003)

i don't get how all of the sudden the "pipe forum members" are looked upon in a bad light?
seems we all have targets on our backs now for wanting to keep CS (mainly the pipe forum) the way it was meant to be - helpful, informative, newbie friendly, and fun.

judging by some recent comments of other members, they must not read down here very much and see just how helpful and friendly this area was.

as jeff said, "*If it is elitist to hope that a new member or someone new to this section might do a little research as to how the board conducts itself, well then I guess I am an elitist.*

I find it odd though that at one point there is talk of community and in the next breath it is talk of the establishment. Also, we have handled ourselves pretty good down here *but it is upsetting when there is a thread and members of the board who do not regularly post down here put in their comments and then shut that thread down*."

this part is hilarious though: "I guess I'm just worried that the people that take such extreme exception to newer guys and their questions will ultimately lost sight of what ClubStogie is all about."

of ANY area on CS, the pipe forum is the last to have lost sight of what CS is all about.

i can tell this is some sort of backlash at me and not the pipe forum members in general. it seems that trying to keep discussions on topic is a no-no nowadays.

I ASK YOU THIS, OH SUPER-MOD, LASCIVIOUSXXX: ask around and see who has been helpful to newbies around this place. see who wasn't receptive to newbies.
while you were busy post-whoring it up and bantering til the break of dawn, we ash-holes down here were actually being nice to each other and helping new and old members learn about pipe smoking.

bah, doesn't matter anyway, it's just a cigar board, right?


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## replicant_argent (May 13, 2006)

While many of my posts on various parts of CS are not tobacco related, it does not keep me from feeling part of the community. Quite frankly, much of what I can/would/will say in regards to pipes/cigars/coffee, etc, has already been said. I am on a fairly shallow slope with pipes, and don't require a ton of information, but that doesn't keep me from reading the pipe corner.

As far as "wading through posts"........


uh..... I can scan thread titles, click on the ones that interest me, not click on those that don't. We aren't talking about thousands of posts in the pipe forum each day. My reading skills allow me to hit a back button quickly when not interested in a post.....

Without taking someone to task with the fact that their statements may not be in keeping with the "flavor" of the more "serious" corner of the site.






This is a place for entertainment, mostly, and you can find the knowledge you seek fairly easily, if you are intelligent about it. Finding the ability to scan and reject posts that don't interest you should be a relatively easy skillset to learn. 

When I get the feeling that I am not contributing enough "Serious Madagascar Vanilla" to a sub forum.. I tend to not participate very much, even if I might have something that I was contemplating posting. 

Complaining about fluff posts annoys me far more than the fluff posts themselves.


Pardon me while I think about/ignore untangling my/other peoples panties from their current bunched status.


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## LasciviousXXX (Oct 12, 2004)

IHT said:


> I ASK YOU THIS, OH SUPER-MOD, LASCIVIOUSXXX: ask around and see who has been helpful to newbies around this place. see who wasn't receptive to newbies.
> while you were busy post-whoring it up and bantering til the break of dawn, we ash-holes down here were actually being nice to each other and helping new and old members learn about pipe smoking.
> 
> bah, doesn't matter anyway, it's just a cigar board, right?


I have never questioned your helpfulness in the Pipe Forum Greg. Nor do I now. I was making observations on comments outside of the Pipe Forum. I respect what you do down here however was making my thoughts known.

If you have personal issues with me you would like to discuss I would be more than happy to speak with you in PM, if you ever decide to respond to any of my PM's.

And just for clarification I did not close down the IHT Super-Mod thread, that was PDS (the owner of the board).


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## replicant_argent (May 13, 2006)

replicant_argent said:


> While many of my posts on various parts of CS are not tobacco related, it does not keep me from feeling part of the community. Quite frankly, much of what I can/would/will say in regards to pipes/cigars/coffee, etc, has already been said. I am on a fairly shallow slope with pipes, and don't require a ton of information, but that doesn't keep me from reading the pipe corner.
> 
> As far as "wading through posts"........
> 
> ...


deleted in the interest of fair play and brotherhood. Although it won't change replies quoting the original, my intent remains.


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## kheffelf (Jul 31, 2006)

replicant_argent said:


> Just thought that I would bump this up so anyone else that wanted to ding me again for stating my own, personal opinion can do so freely.


You are the one instigating in a place that you probably shouldn't be in. I didn't ding you, but with this post I can see a lot more people doing it.


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## croatan (Mar 23, 2005)

replicant_argent said:


> Just thought that I would bump this up so anyone else that wanted to ding me again for stating my own, personal opinion can do so freely.





kheffelf said:


> You are the one instigating in a place that you probably shouldn't be in. I didn't ding you, but with this post I can see a lot more people doing it.


I'm sure I don't have to remind everyone that it's frowned upon to publicly discuss RG matters. Take it to pm if you have a problem.


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## jgros001 (Jun 14, 2005)

replicant_argent said:


> Just thought that I would bump this up so anyone else that wanted to ding me again for stating my own, personal opinion can do so freely.


This and your previous post are what I think do not belong in the pipe forum and for that matter any forum on the board. That is an opinion - what you posted was for the most part inflammatory (here are the highlights since you do not understand why I dinged you: bunched panties, lack of intelligence, lack of reading skills).


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## icehog3 (Feb 20, 2005)

jgros001 said:


> I find it odd though that at one point there is talk of community and in the next breath it is talk of the establishment. Also, we have handled ourselves pretty good down here but *it is upsetting when there is a thread and members of the board who do not regularly post down here put in their comments and then shut that thread down*.


I feel compelled to chime in here, as I take some exception to this post.

A usually non-contributing member of the pipe forum made a post on the "IHT Super-Mod" thread. It may have seemed congratulatory to those who don't know the history between this member and Greg, but to those of us who do, it was a slam to Greg. The thread started going downhill from there and it was the fault of the "non-pipe" guy that started it, in my opinion. The decision to close it was made ultimately because of the digging that was going on towards Greg and the pipe crew, as I saw it.

Greg and others expressed their desire to keep the pipe forum free from as much nonsense and banter as possible, and I have respected that as a member and a mod. That thread was becoming littered with posts from the non-pipe guys, and seemed to benefit no one, especially Greg and the pipe crew. The decision to close it down had no input from those making the divisive posts, it was in fact _in response _to them.

I try to keep hands off as much as possible in the pipe forum, but I believe there was little good that was going to come from that thread in the direction it had headed. I know Greg doesn't need me to defend him, but I saw the shots being taken at him as something unacceptable on the site. I consider Greg a friend, though I fear the feeling is hardly mutual at this juncture.

You won't see a lot of posts from me in the Forum because I am not a pipe smoker and I respect the pipe crews' desire to keep the "banter" out of the pipe area, but I felt compelled to at least set some things straight, at least in my view of them.


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## pnoon (Jun 8, 2005)

kheffelf said:


> You are the one instigating in a place that you probably shouldn't be in. I didn't ding you, but with this post I can see a lot more people doing it.


Kyle, I respect you and your attempt to keep the threads clutter-free but the underlined part of your post is cause for concern. I am not sure how you decide who should or shouldn't be permitted in the Pipe Forum.
:2


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## replicant_argent (May 13, 2006)

kheffelf said:


> You are the one instigating in *a place that you probably shouldn't be in.* I didn't ding you, but with this post I can see a lot more people doing it.


I think the bolded says a lot about the thread itself, thank you.



croatan said:


> I'm sure I don't have to remind everyone that it's frowned upon to publicly discuss RG matters. Take it to pm if you have a problem.


Correct, James. My apologies.



jgros001 said:


> This and your previous post are what I think do not belong in the pipe forum and for that matter any forum on the board. That is an opinion - what you posted was for the most part inflammatory (here are the highlights since you do not understand why I dinged you: bunched panties, lack of intelligence, lack of reading skills).


You may notice I referenced "MY reading skills" in my statement of my opinion.

If you want to get upset about the term "bunched panties" thats up to you man.

*you can find the knowledge you seek fairly easily, if you are intelligent about it.* How is that an affront to anyone?
I understand your desire for the pipe forum to be the way you want it to be, however, I saw no insult in that phrasing whatsoever.

I can certainly take this discussion to pm if you would like to.


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## croatan (Mar 23, 2005)

There are lots of posts by lots of people on the board that I choose not to read (unless they're reported). I don't have the time or the inclination to read every post. But as long as they aren't violating a rule, people are basically free to post what they like--regardless of how inane it might be. I'm just glad I don't have to read them all. I've always liked that the pipe forum didn't contain many of those kinds of posts. Things are a little different down here and that seems to be how most of the regulars want it. 

So, how about just leading by example? If you don't want to read inane posts, then don't. Don't read them. Don't make them. And don't respond to them. Some people post crap just hoping to get a response or a rise out of someone. Put them on ignore, don't give them what they want, and they'll probably go away. 

It's all about norms versus rules. The social norms down here have been a little different than in most other parts of the board. That's ok and doesn't, by itself, make the members "elitist", in my opinion. Now, if people start piling on some guy saying "you can't post here because you don't know anything about pipes" (or something along those lines), then that is elitist and exclusionary and, in my opinion, is contrary to the spirit of Club Stogie as a whole. 

But most people who know me think I'm an elitist A-hole anyway, so take it for what it's worth--just about :2


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## IHT (Dec 27, 2003)

icehog3 said:


> I consider Greg a friend, though I fear the feeling is hardly mutual at this juncture.


no tom, we're all good. i have been meaning to call you, almost did last week when i was out of town but got too busy.

--------

this thread sucks, btw.
:r

i think the bottom line is that the bastard children (pipe guys) would like CS like it use to be.
they are now getting a bad wrap for taking that them OUT of the pipe forum.
ironic that the "useless" posts are now being taken OUT of the "everything but" forum.

it is what it is.

i would just like to be known as "a pipe guy", not "greg and the pipe guys". 

------



lasciviousxxx said:


> If you have personal issues with me you would like to discuss I would be more than happy to speak with you in PM, *if you ever decide to respond to any of my PM's*.


i considered you a good friend, dustin... 
you have changed dramatically since the summer of '06. i don't know what happened to you, but i tried to call you numerous times in Aug, Sep, etc, etc of that year, even in '07. you never took my calls and never called back. 
then to find out on the board that you had some personal issues that seemed a number already knew about... well, as a friend, it hurt personally, that you couldn't take my calls during that time and see if i could help. 
i tried to call you, as a friend... blown off. gave you your room, and you have changed dramatically. you can blow me off again, but as a (i guess) former friend, maybe you'll listen when i say you have changed. if you don't see it and disagree, that's fine.
do i have any personal issues? none that i just didn't state.
non-personal, yes. it seems your comments down here aimed at other pipe members are unjust and wrong - WE are trying to keep CS as helpful and newby friendly as possible (not just me - i'm a spec compared to the contributions by many of the pipe members down here).

gotta run, work calls.


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## kheffelf (Jul 31, 2006)

replicant_argent said:


> I think the bolded says a lot about the thread itself, thank you.
> 
> Correct, James. My apologies.
> 
> ...


Ok, Pete, you knew your post was just going to cause problems but you posted it anyways. Then you bump your post because you got upset about somebody dinging your ring gauge. To me you don't belong in this thread(and that is what I meant with my comment) because you're only looking for trouble. I was also not a fan of your ending in your post. Feel free to make me the bad guy in this thread, I have no problem with that because that has happened a lot here lately.


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## rumballs (Mar 15, 2005)

kheffelf said:


> Ok, Pete, you knew your post was just going to cause problems but you posted it anyways. Then you bump your post because you got upset about somebody dinging your ring gauge. To me you don't belong in this thread(and that is what I meant with my comment) because you're only looking for trouble. I was also not a fan of your ending in your post. Feel free to make me the bad guy in this thread, I have no problem with that because that has happened a lot here lately.


Isn't this whole thread going to cause problems?
If only one side of this argument "belongs" in the thread, what's the point of the thread?
He posted his opinion on the issue / theme of the thread - why don't you do the same instead of attacking him?

Some advice for everyone (sorry, didn't want to embed the image because the page specifically says copyright):
http://www.pbase.com/philthompson/image/65214570


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## Da Klugs (Jan 8, 2005)

Using the term "we" as a subset of the forum is natural as everyone gravitates to social groups and specialty interests in almost any endeavor.

It also implies concurrence and acceptance from the "host" in this case PDS for that distinction. In that caution should be considered when by inference or direct comparison saying one part or group of CS is better or at minimum it's being unchanged from the past is better.

"We" are all members of this forum. "We" all deserve to be treated with respect regardless of our specific area of interest. "We" all have the right to post in any area of this forum we choose to and in any manner accepted under the rules or over time by our fellow members. "We" all have the ability to communicate in methods to each other that can make a point without putting up whiney "the way we were" threads. The "way we were" is a relative thing. Ever read any of the really old threads? It can be enlightening. Same stuff, just on a real slow smaller scale.

If a post whore comes into your lil corner of paradise and you don't like it... say it to them in the thread. If they still don't "get it", send a PM. If that doesn't help then use what you perceive to be important to them as a message and ding their RG. 

"We", Cigar smokers, Pipe Smokers, Coffee Drinkers, Entertainment Reviewers, Radio Listeners, Game Players, Whiney lil Biatches, Post Whores, Grumpy Old Farts, Newbies, FOG's, SLope Sliders, Bargain Hunters, Elitest Cuban Cigar Snobs, Troop Supporters, etc are Club Stogie.


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## LasciviousXXX (Oct 12, 2004)

IHT said:


> i considered you a good friend, dustin...


In keeping with what I said I would do in regards to posting on this topic I will reply via PM.


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## poker (Dec 11, 1997)

kheffelf said:


> You are the one instigating in a place that you probably shouldn't be in. I didn't ding you, but with this post I can see a lot more people doing it.


Hate to say it, but I will...

NOBODY, and I mean *NOBODY* has any right to tell another member which sub-forum of CS they should or should not be in. We are all members of CS as a whole, and any member who has access to a particular sub-forum here is allowed to post here.


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## kheffelf (Jul 31, 2006)

poker said:


> Hate to say it, but I will...
> 
> NOBODY, and I mean *NOBODY* has any right to tell another member which sub-forum of CS they should or should not be in. We are all members of CS as a whole, and any member who has access to a particular sub-forum here is allowed to post here.


Did you not read farther down where I tried to explain what I meant with that post. Keep piling on me though. It was me trying to tell him that he was just down here instigating trouble and I didn't think that was needed. Looking out sometimes gets a lot of crap thrown at you though. Also if you look at the thread I made that comment after he bumped his old thread because he got dinged for it, which is when I stated that I didn't think his opinion in this thread was needed because to me it was obvious what he was doing, but you guys can keep reading what you want out of my post. It is obvious I have been in the wrong for awhile, especially the way you mods are jumping on me. There are other post in this thread that you guys could have jumped on. So, I will sum this up, I didn't mean that he didn't have a right to post in the pipe forum, I meant that his post in this thread were just nothing but trouble and he reinstated my opinion with that when he bumped his own post and openly discussed ring gauge. And my last point is that Pete has posted in the pipe forum before and I'm pretty sure I didn't ask him to leave and not post here anymore.


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## poker (Dec 11, 1997)

Look, Im not "piling on" as you say. I dont read what other mods have posted. All Im saying is nobody has a right to say that someone should or should not be in a particular sub-forum of CS, and if I see it happening, I will become involved on my own accord. Thats it. Nothing more, nothing less.
I dont post in the pipe forum because I dont regularly smoke a pipe, but when it gets brought to my attention there is issues, I will make an effort to resolve it.


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## Mr.Lordi (May 20, 2007)

I'm confused, and it's not my place to say anything, but I don't understand where this "elitist" idea of the pipe guys is coming from. 

Since I have joined here, I have never seen the pipe guys be anything but helpful to new guys.They have never been anything but helpful to me as well. 

The pipe forums are a joking bunch though and they tend to mess with the cigar guys that come down here from time to time, but usaly the cigar guy is Well known and friends with someone or all down here. They never do it out of malice or elitism.


But honestly, I don't know what is going on and where people are coming from on this.


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## kheffelf (Jul 31, 2006)

poker said:


> Look, Im not "piling on" as you say. I dont read what other mods have posted. All Im saying is nobody has a right to say that someone should or should not be in a particular sub-forum of CS, and if I see it happening, I will become involved on my own accord. Thats it. Nothing more, nothing less.
> I dont post in the pipe forum because I dont regularly smoke a pipe, but when it gets brought to my attention there is issues, I will make an effort to resolve it.


I understand completely, I just wanted to make sure it was clear that I didn't mean it the way it was took and tried to explain that a couple times. To me right now though, it seems like I am being piled upon by some mods.


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## poker (Dec 11, 1997)

Good. Now I want you & replicant_argent to kiss/hug/reacharound & make up.:tu


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## mikeyj23 (Feb 25, 2007)

poker said:


> Good. Now I want you & replicant_argent to kiss/hug/reacharound & make up.:tu


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## Mr.Lordi (May 20, 2007)

mikeyj23 said:


>


Yay for homoerotica!....wait, did I just say that? *walks away ashamed* lol


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## Thillium (Jan 14, 2008)

I personally like elitism, I believe it helps breed a higher standard within a group, and you can still be an elitist but not be rude about like most elitists I encounter are.:2


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## [OT] Loki (May 24, 2006)

I don't see anything wrong with wanting a thread to stay on topic and not get into the "my butt itches" type of posts that have become so common on cs....this thread is a nice example


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## Mr.Lordi (May 20, 2007)

Thillium said:


> I personally like elitism, I believe it helps breed a higher standard within a group, and you can still be an elitist but not be rude about like most elitists I encounter are.:2


I don't think anyone is saying there is anything wrong with elitism, as it can be good from time to time. but what there saying is that on CS it isn't tolerated because this is meant to be a open board for anyone and everyone. Which I am sure we can all agree is best.


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## poker (Dec 11, 1997)

Good reading for putting things back into perspective:

http://www.clubstogie.com/vb/showthread.php?t=83704


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## cigar_040 (Mar 10, 2006)

FWIW.....

I came down here originally by reading a thread here and there. The more I read, the more I liked it. It's a different pace and that suits me just fine. I commend Greg on what he did here and wanted the pipe forum to be......I appreciate it
alot.

Do I think of pipe members being elite........?? Not in the least. 

My 2 cent's


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## IHT (Dec 27, 2003)

poker said:


> Good reading for putting things back into perspective:
> 
> http://www.clubstogie.com/vb/showthread.php?t=83704


ironic you post that link, kelly, as THAT is EXACTLY how the pipe sub-forums members attempted to act and want it kept, and i think of ANY of the forums, the pipe area (and coffee) were the closest to what the original intentions of CS were meant to be.
yet now we seem to be villified for it.


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## fireman43 (Oct 15, 2006)

cigar_040 said:


> FWIW.....
> 
> Do I think of pipe members being elite........?? Not in the least.
> 
> My 2 cent's


I'm not an elitist. I'm an a$$hole who happens to smoke a pipe. As far as the higher standard thing. I try to hold myself to a higher standard. It's a personal thing that has nothing to do with elitism or snobbery. That's why I will not post my feelings about this whole ordeal openly on the boards. It would come across the wrong way and only add fuel to the fire. I will say this though... I don't care who posts in the pipe forums. All I really care about is that when they do post it adds something to the forum and the community as a whole. That's just my personal feeling as a member, and applies to the whole community, not just the basement. We have a ton of BS threads, and a whole forum marked off for bantering and BS'ing. Hell, we even have a sort of banter thread here in the pipe room. As for the elitists....Well, we have some that try. To say we don't is nonsense. Any public forum the size of CS is going to have its fair share. We have the cliques of folks who think their crap doesn't smell. That's fine. I don't see pipe smokers in general as those types of members though, and the majority of people in the Jungle aren't either. Just a handful, but hell, that's what I have an ignore button for, right. :tu
That's just the :2 I'm going to toss on the table.


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## icehog3 (Feb 20, 2005)

kheffelf said:


> To me right now though, it seems like I am being piled upon by some mods.


Maybe I should not have quoted your post as my jump off point to try to cleat up things about the "IHT Super Mod" thread, Kyle...just seemed that your post held some of the misconceptions I felt the pipe guys had about why that thread was closed. I think we agree that at least one comment was posted in the thread that was a less than subtle jab at Greg, and that, IMO, was the main reason that thread went to $hit and got closed. So, I had no intention of piling on, and sorry if it seemed that way....looking at the way I posted my comment, it probably did to you.


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## BigKev77 (Feb 16, 2008)

fireman43 said:


> I'm not an elitist. I'm an a$$hole who happens to smoke a pipe.


Now... there is something I can relate too.

I have only come across one or two pricks on here. The rest are great guys (and gal, sorry cigargal)who will go out of their way to help another forum member no matter the topic.

For those who's feelings were hurt GET OVER IT!!!! lets get back to talking about pipes and tobacco. If you can't get over it. Turn off your computer and go watch Oprah or Dr Phil and learn to manage your emotions or what ever they talk about on those shows. Just remember I AM BETTER THAN YOU!!!! :r


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## Silky01 (Jul 16, 2007)

bigkev77 said:


> Now... there is something I can relate too.
> 
> I have only come across one or two pricks on here. The rest are great guys (and gal, sorry cigargal)who will go out of their way to help another forum member no matter the topic.
> 
> For those who's feelings were hurt GET OVER IT!!!! lets get back to talking about pipes and tobacco. If you can't get over it. Turn off your computer and go watch Oprah or Dr Phil and learn to manage your emotions or what ever they talk about on those shows. Just remember I AM BETTER THAN YOU!!!! :r


:tpd: I say we get back to smoking cigars or the pipe. If you don't have one, PM and I'll send you a Padron or a cob + something to pack it with.


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## Da Klugs (Jan 8, 2005)

*Re: Pipe "pseudo-elitism" or hoping for a higher standard....*

I slept with a bunch of girls is high school but kept my mouth shut about it. No accolades from the boys club but no vilification for me or the girls in question.

However, some others would chat it up .. hurt their future prospects and the reputation of both them and the girls in question.

Thinking about it, specific to the ongoing comments about the nature of the pipe forum, focusing on making it so vs making hurtful comments contrasting it to the rest of CS to the detriment of the rest of CS might be the best course of action for it's contributing members.


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## Mr.Lordi (May 20, 2007)

bigkev77 said:


> Now... there is something I can relate too.
> 
> I have only come across one or two pricks on here. The rest are great guys (and gal, sorry cigargal)who will go out of their way to help another forum member no matter the topic.
> 
> For those who's feelings were hurt GET OVER IT!!!! lets get back to talking about pipes and tobacco. If you can't get over it. Turn off your computer and go watch Oprah or Dr Phil and learn to manage your emotions or what ever they talk about on those shows. Just remember I AM BETTER THAN YOU!!!! :r


Friends, country men, romans, lend me your ears.

4 score and 7 years ago our founding brothers created this new site to be a place where all B/SOTL could come and co-exist peacefully, like humans and fish, and discuss our love of Tobacco. It was thought to be a place, where we would ask not what our fellow smokers could do for us, but what we could do for our fellow smokers.

We have joined together time and again to fight those that would wish to keep us from our most joyous pastime. We rose against them, and said "We will not vanish into the night, we will not perish without a fight, we're going to smoke on, we're going to survive" So that one day, we can again smoke in bars and sing "Free at last, free at last, thank god almighty we are free at last"

Let us not bicker and argue, but combine again as one. Now, everyone light up a pipe or cigar and sing "We are the champions" together, so we may be as one. Then for the hell of it we will do a rousing rendition of "Fat Bottomed Girls" :ss


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## BigKev77 (Feb 16, 2008)

uncballzer said:


> :tpd: I say we get back to smoking cigars or the pipe. If you don't have one, PM and I'll send you a Padron or a cob + something to pack it with.


Uncballzer PM sent


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## BigKev77 (Feb 16, 2008)

bigkev77 said:


> Now... there is something I can relate too.
> 
> I have only come across one or two pricks on here. The rest are great guys (and gal, sorry cigargal)who will go out of their way to help another forum member no matter the topic.
> 
> For those who's feelings were hurt GET OVER IT!!!! lets get back to talking about pipes and tobacco. If you can't get over it. Turn off your computer and go watch Oprah or Dr Phil and learn to manage your emotions or what ever they talk about on those shows. Just remember I AM BETTER THAN YOU!!!! :r


Just adding some rediculous humor to a more so subject. I see so much of this bickering in the harley forums that when i saw it here i figured i would ad a post that was as usefull as the res of what has been going on her the past few days.

This is a great forum. Lets join in with Mr.Lordi and his rousing speach. "WE ARE THE CHAMPIONS"


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## DriftyGypsy (May 24, 2006)

keeping mouth shut


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## DubintheDam (Jun 5, 2007)

To me this pipe forum stood out above all others when I first joined, I hesitated because it was, after all, a cigar forum (and I don't like cigars) but joined it because it had a sense of community about it that was healthy. The 'we're the incrowd...and those are not' element didn't seem to be a part of the forum all at, surprising when that: 'lets all laugh at stupid' element dominates so many forums of any kind on the web.

Today, I suspect the forum is still sound and true to it's cause and ideals...I think some of the more observant and older members see changes and the odd jerk on a bad day and take it a little to heart...and rightly so, they being the proud parents of a well regarded child...

I think we can all agree on these basic points:

1. People can by all means be casual but should also bring some content

2. We should always act as nice fellow's and refrain from being too 'smart assed'.

3. Moderators should always be suitably appreciated and appropriate respect paid. This is not a joke!

4. Should anyone have a political issue it should remain a 'PM' to be hashed out between relevant parties.

There's mine...I await pending fallout....


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## Mr.Lordi (May 20, 2007)

In CLUB STOGIE, a Declaration of Independence....the twelfth of May, two-thousand and eight.

We hold these truths to be self evident, that all smokers are created equal ,that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are the ability to ask redundant questions, discuss the tobacco of their choice without persecution and the pursuit of Happiness with a cigar or pipe,- That to secure these rights, Governments of Mods are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the owner of CS,laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form. That to keep such rights all civilians must adhere to this code of jungle conduct, or else our nation may fall.


-John Handcock

Mr.Lordi



LOL, granted I didn't add the whole thing, and it might be paraphrased a little bit, but if you look at it, it's almost as if the Declaration was made for these fourms. :ss


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## dogsplayinpoker (Jan 23, 2007)

elitist= The sense of entitlement enjoyed by such a group or class. 
Control, rule, or domination by such a group or class

I like these best.:tu:r
C'mon fellas, I believe we are getting a little too personally involved in a ridiculous argument. I have been called a lot of things in my life. Mostly by people who either don't know me at all or people who know me intimately. I tend to disregard both sets and use my inner compass to determine if I have sleighted someone. The one question that I have always asked is," Is this worth getting pissed about, actually wasting my time on this planet responding to a thoughtless or/and uninformed comment?" 
Elitist; naw. Sociopath; possibly.


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## wharfrathoss (Dec 27, 2006)

as i sit here smoking a pipe (sold to me so cheaply by a forum member that it was basically a gift), enjoying some C&D Odessa (which i picked on the recomendation of another forum member), i'll just add....

pipers or cigar smokers, both = good people

now how about some more pipe talk?


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## Pablo (Oct 13, 1997)

kheffelf said:


> Did you not read farther down where I tried to explain what I meant with that post. Keep piling on me though.


Your comments deserved to be piled on. There is no explaining away telling another user they should not be in a certain forum.


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## Pablo (Oct 13, 1997)

DubintheDam said:


> To me this pipe forum stood out above all others when I first joined, I hesitated because it was, after all, a cigar forum (and I don't like cigars) but joined it because it had a sense of community about it that was healthy. The 'we're the incrowd...and those are not' element didn't seem to be a part of the forum all at, surprising when that: 'lets all laugh at stupid' element dominates so many forums of any kind on the web.
> 
> Today, I suspect the forum is still sound and true to it's cause and ideals...I think some of the more observant and older members see changes and the odd jerk on a bad day and take it a little to heart...and rightly so, they being the proud parents of a well regarded child...
> 
> ...


Fall out?!? Heck, this is one of the best posts I have ever seen here. Thanks for posting it.


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## kheffelf (Jul 31, 2006)

pds said:


> Your comments deserved to be piled on. There is no explaining away telling another user they should not be in a certain forum.


You know its funny that I was completely done with this thread, had everything cleared up with members, but than you bring it back up. Why? I have explained my position, it had nothing to do with the forum, it had to do with the thread. Yes, I did try explaining it and I did explain it over pm with a lot of people. Like I have stated numerous times Pete has posted in the pipe forum before and I never had a problem with it. It was his bumping his own statement that bothered me because he got dinged for it and complained about getting dinged for it.


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## Pablo (Oct 13, 1997)

kheffelf said:


> You know its funny that I was completely done with this thread, had everything cleared up with members, but than you bring it back up. Why?


Because I wanted to.


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## Slow Triathlete (Jun 14, 2007)

pds said:


> Because I wanted to.


Uncalled for.


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## pnoon (Jun 8, 2005)

Slow Triathlete said:


> Uncalled for.


You're right. He acts like he owns the place.


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## [OT] Loki (May 24, 2006)

any chance of just letting this die?


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## rumballs (Mar 15, 2005)

Obstinacy is will asserting itself without being able to justify itself. It is persistence without a reasonable motive. It is the tenacity of self-love substituted for that of reason and conscience. 
-Henri Frederic Amiel


One of the hardest things in this world is to admit you are wrong. And nothing is more helpful in resolving a situation than its frank admission.
-Benjamin Disraeli


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## croatan (Mar 23, 2005)

I think everyone has had a chance to say his or her piece. At this point, nothing more good is going to come from this thread. If someone has a compelling reason why this should be re-opened or wants to discuss this further, pm me. 

The Pipe Forum is a great place and has its own personality and frequent posters. If people prefer to hang out solely in this little corner of the jungle, they're free to do so. But remember: it's a sub-forum of Club Stogie. The founders and elder statesmen of Club Stogie have spoken about what the site is, what is isn't, and what they want it to be. Now it's time for all of us to listen and to act accordingly. 

So let's put this and any "us versus them" mentality behind us, move on, and talk about bulldogs, bent apples, churchwardens, and ketchup-smelling tobacco again.


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