# Need Help..ordering online (taxes)



## gantonio45 (Jan 30, 2016)

Hey guys,

I have a question for anyone who orders tobacco/cigars online. I posted in another forum but thought I'd add it here for more exposure.

I have never ordered tobacco online as of yet because I am worried about the taxes. I've heard stories of people getting stiffed with a bill for thousands of dollars owed in taxes.

So my question is this: If I were to order from say smokingpipes.com or pipesandcigars.com, how is the tax calculated? I know that the sites say it is the responsability of the purchaser for remittance of any taxes, but does that include the tobacco tax AS WELL as the sales tax?

I'm just very cautious when it comes to tobacco online, as I simply could not afford a surprise bill for thousands of dollars.

ANY advice would be helpful, and if you are someone that orders from either of those sites, how has it worked for you? If it helps, I currently live in Texas.

Thank you guys for any and all help.


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## Bird-Dog (Oct 16, 2009)

Suggestion: Contact the vendor you're considering ordering from and ask them.


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## gantonio45 (Jan 30, 2016)

That is a very good suggestion; before I do that however, I wanted to reach out to people who have perhaps ordered from those sites previously and get their feedback.

I am fairly new to the pipe smoking hobby and there are a lot of blends I am curious about, so I'm just trying to learn how ordering tobacco online works exactly.


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## Gigmaster (Jan 12, 2009)

How much are you going to buy? The story of people owing thousands of dollars in internet sales taxes is a myth. Those people are probably also wearing foil hats, and waiting for the Mothership.......

Unless you live in the same state as where you are buying the tobacco, there is no sales tax. The tobacco taxes are charged to the vendor, and they are figured into the price of the tobacco. So far, Congress has been unsuccessful at passing an Internet Sales Tax bill. All states, counties and cities have different tax-rates, that change all the time, There is no way anyone could realistically expect any online business to be able to keep up with all of them. Likewise, there is no way to realistically track down every online purchaser and demand a sales tax from them. 

I think you are pretty safe buying tobacco online (as long as you are over 21 years old...). I've been buying from Pipes and Cigars, and 4 Noggins for years and years, with no problems at all.


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## Hudabear (Feb 1, 2016)

Gigmaster said:


> How much are you going to buy?
> 
> Unless you live in the same state as where you are buying the tobacco, there is no sales tax. The tobacco taxes are charged to the vendor, and they are figured into the price of the tobacco. So far, Congress has been unsuccessful at passing an Internet Sales Tax bill. All states, counties and cities have different tax rates, that change all the time, There is no way anyone could realistically expect any online business to be able to keep up with all of them. Likewise, there is no way to realistically track down every online purchaser and demand a sales tax from them.
> 
> I think you are pretty safe buying tobacco online (as long as you are over 21 years old...). I've been buying from Pipes and Cigars, and 4 Noggins for years and years, with no problems at all.


Technically, that's a fallacy. According to law, it is the responsibility of the consumer to pay the taxes for online tobacco purchases, each state per their amounts. Although a lot of B&Ms are fighting for the "Marketplace Fairness Act" (which would shift the responsibility of the taxes from online purchases from the consumer to the retailer) it died on congress table and has not yet been revived. So the responsibility is still the duty of the consumer to pay the taxes in his/her own state. Whether the consumer actually files is up to them, because it's harder for the government to force taxes on the consumer which is why B&Ms all over are still fighting to pass that act, so the prices will even out and they won't lose business to online retailers.


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## UBC03 (Nov 18, 2015)

When she "doesn't want to see one more cigar shipped to this house for at least a month" which of course is always when I find a good deal. I'll have em shipped to my parents in Pa. I pay taxes on those orders, since I'm ordering in PA from a PA business.


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## Cigary (Oct 19, 2007)

Chicken Little is alive and well and making people worry about most anything. ..I'm still in therapy over static cling in my laundry. I've read all the BS stories about buying cigars on the Internet. ...unless one is purchasing boatloads of cigars just relax....the Government isn't coming to look at your cigar purchasing. ...people have got to stop being so gullible in believing the story about some guy they know who is a roommate with Sasquatch where they both buy cigars on the Internet while talking about their Jack Link experiences.


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## Griz (May 10, 2009)

Hudabear said:


> Technically, that's a fallacy. According to law, it is the responsibility of the consumer to pay the taxes for online tobacco purchases, each state per their amounts. Although a lot of B&Ms are fighting for the "Marketplace Fairness Act" (which would shift the responsibility of the taxes from online purchases from the consumer to the retailer) it died on congress table and has not yet been revived. So the responsibility is still the duty of the consumer to pay the taxes in his/her own state. Whether the consumer actually files is up to them, because it's harder for the government to force taxes on the consumer which is why B&Ms all over are still fighting to pass that act, so the prices will even out and they won't lose business to online retailers.


This is accurate for the state I live in. However, they will probably let the $6.32 I owe them slide.


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## Gigmaster (Jan 12, 2009)

You have it backwards. The Marketplace Fairness Act of 2013 would've allowed states to tax Internet purchases. it did not pass, so states cannot charge for internet purchases...at least not yet. There are some dumb laws on the books in some states that are unenforceable, but in the real world, you can buy all the cigars and pipe tobacco you want online. You only have to pay tax if you live in the same state where the retailer maintains a physical presence. And it is up to the retailer to charge the tax.

Technically, Ga. has a "Use Tax" that allows them to charge tax on goods brought into the state. I live near the TN border, and buy gas, groceries and all kinds of things in Tn. Ga. has never searched my house to see what I bought at Guitar Center so they can tax me. It's a stupid law that is completely unenforceable. Taxing Internet sales would be even more unenforceable.

Most of us here have been purchasing tobacco online for many, many years, and so far, none of us has gone to jail, or been fined. They cannot tap your internet use to see if you are buying things online, at least not without a court order. I doubt seriously if they will ever go to that trouble for a measly 8.125% sales tax. This issue has already been decided when they tried to tax mail order purchases a long, long time ago. it died as well. There is no difference between buying mail order, and buying on the internet.



Hudabear said:


> Technically, that's a fallacy. According to law, it is the responsibility of the consumer to pay the taxes for online tobacco purchases, each state per their amounts. Although a lot of B&Ms are fighting for the "Marketplace Fairness Act" (which would shift the responsibility of the taxes from online purchases from the consumer to the retailer) it died on congress table and has not yet been revived. So the responsibility is still the duty of the consumer to pay the taxes in his/her own state. Whether the consumer actually files is up to them, because it's harder for the government to force taxes on the consumer which is why B&Ms all over are still fighting to pass that act, so the prices will even out and they won't lose business to online retailers.


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## Hudabear (Feb 1, 2016)

Gigmaster said:


> You have it backwards. The Marketplace Fairness Act of 2013 would've allowed states to tax Internet purchases. it did not pass, so states cannot charge for internet purchases...at least not yet. There are some dumb laws on the books in some states that are unenforceable, but in the real world, you can buy all the cigars and pipe tobacco you want online. You only have to pay tax if you live in the same state where the retailer maintains a physical presence. And it is up to the retailer to charge the tax.
> 
> Technically, Ga. has a "Use Tax" that allows them to charge tax on goods brought into the state. I live near the TN border, and buy gas, groceries and all kinds of things in Tn. Ga. has never searched my house to see what I bought at Guitar Center so they can tax me. It's a stupid law that is completely unenforceable. Taxing Internet sales would be even more unenforceable.
> 
> This is sort of a dumb argument, because most of us here have been purchasing tobacco online for many, many years, and so far, none of us has gone to jail, or been fined. They cannot tap your internet use to see if you are buying things online, at least not without a court order. I doubt seriously if they will ever go to that trouble for a measly 8.125% sales tax.


We aren't arguing, we are agreeing in a roundabout way. I know that's what the Marketplace Fairness Act was for. And because the act didn't pass states can't charge online retailers, but that does not mean that they expect the consumer in their state not to file, because that is what they expect us to do. And as for getting caught, I know that the chances are slim to none, but that doesn't mean that you don't have to, it just means that you can't get caught for not doing it. 
The OP asked if he has to take care of taxes from online purchases, and the answer is yes according to his state, but whether he does or doesn't is his prerogative as the chances of getting caught are slim.


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## Gigmaster (Jan 12, 2009)

Again, most of us buy tobacco online all the time. It's not an issue. They cannot zap you for tobacco taxes for purchases online, nor does one state have the authority to charge sales tax in another state. The tobacco taxes were in place well before the Internet and mail Order, and have no provisions for such. Until the laws are modified and/or changed, you can buy cigars and pipe tobacco online with no fear of Big Brother, as long as you are over 21. We do it every day.


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## Hudabear (Feb 1, 2016)

For fear of sounding pedantic and redundant I'm just going to concede.


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## gantonio45 (Jan 30, 2016)

Thank you guys SO MUCH for your responses; you truly have clarified a lot for me, and now I feel more comforted in the fact that ordering online is really no big deal.

As I've said, I am fairly new to pipe smoking, and I am LOVING IT! I cannot wait to fully immerse myself in the culture!

Thank you guys again!


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## Hari Seldon (Aug 22, 2015)

Gigmaster said:


> You have it backwards. The Marketplace Fairness Act of 2013 would've allowed states to tax Internet purchases. it did not pass, so states cannot charge for internet purchases...at least not yet. There are some dumb laws on the books in some states that are unenforceable, but in the real world, you can buy all the cigars and pipe tobacco you want online. You only have to pay tax if you live in the same state where the retailer maintains a physical presence. And it is up to the retailer to charge the tax.
> 
> Technically, Ga. has a "Use Tax" that allows them to charge tax on goods brought into the state. I live near the TN border, and buy gas, groceries and all kinds of things in Tn. Ga. has never searched my house to see what I bought at Guitar Center so they can tax me. It's a stupid law that is completely unenforceable. Taxing Internet sales would be even more unenforceable.
> 
> Most of us here have been purchasing tobacco online for many, many years, and so far, none of us has gone to jail, or been fined. They cannot tap your internet use to see if you are buying things online, at least not without a court order. I doubt seriously if they will ever go to that trouble for a measly 8.125% sales tax. This issue has already been decided when they tried to tax mail order purchases a long, long time ago. it died as well. There is no difference between buying mail order, and buying on the internet.


Although I agree it's "unenforceable," that use tax you mention already encompasses Internet or mail order purchases, and many states have it. It's an easy law to put in place and hope some number of taxpayers will self declare and pay the tax on their purchases. I imagine for many Americans it would be hard to determine how many Internet or other out of state purchase they have made themselves at tax filing time, let alone some state taxing authority figure it out so definitely unenforceable. However, I do like that more and more purchases I make these days from the Internet have sales taxes withheld (Dell, Amazon both do for example) as I worry the state will figure out a way to track them and try to enforce the law some day.


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## Bird-Dog (Oct 16, 2009)

Hari Seldon said:


> Although I agree it's "unenforceable," that use tax you mention already encompasses Internet or mail order purchases, and many states have it. It's an easy law to put in place and hope some number of taxpayers will self declare and pay the tax on their purchases. I imagine for many Americans it would be hard to determine how many Internet or other out of state purchase they have made themselves at tax filing time, let alone some state taxing authority figure it out so definitely unenforceable. However, I do like that more and more purchases I make these days from the Internet have sales taxes withheld (Dell, Amazon both do for example) as I worry the state will figure out a way to track them and try to enforce the law some day.


You may be mistaking voluntary sales tax collection on Internet purchases with those collected because of the vendor's presence in your state, or because of individual state laws. Amazon, for example, essentially only collects tax in states where they maintain a warehouse or are forced to by individual state laws. With their fulfillment vendors, this can vary according to the individual seller.


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## Hari Seldon (Aug 22, 2015)

curmudgeonista said:


> You may be mistaking voluntary sales tax collection on Internet purchases with those collected because of the vendor's presence in your state, or because of individual state laws. Amazon, for example, essentially only collects tax in states where they maintain a warehouse or are forced to by individual state laws. With their fulfillment vendors, this can vary according to the individual seller.


Nope, not mistaking anything. My states law (and I quickly looked up the GA law before replying too to make sure it was the same) requires us, when filing our state tax return, to also declare any out of state or Internet purchase made where the seller or vendor did not withhold sales tax, and pay a use tax on them in an amount equal to the sales tax rate. You are not required to declare the purchase if the seller collected (you paid) sales tax. I didn't say why amazon or dell did so, and I don't care, just that they withheld them. It's also not on the individual to somehow determine if the vendor actually remitted the tax, just that they paid them.

The GA law where the previous poster resides is the same, although I do not know when you declare these types of purchases there, although I would bet it's also with the state tax return.

I'm a CPA by the way.

Edit: Possibly you didn't understand what my previous post meant (due to the post itself) but what I was trying to say is I appreciate dell and Amazon (two vendors I have used in the last year or two either frequently or for a large purchase) collecting sales tax from me on my purchases, rather than not and leaving it up to me to declare them (or not) on my return and possibly leaving me open to penalties if my state ever figures out how to track them. I didn't say why amazon or dell collects them although as you say it's likely due to doing business in the state. Some businesses have begun to collect them even in states they do not have a physical presence though, as nexus rules are different from state to state and are open to interpretation. I've worked with companies that have collected them in states they do not even have a license to operate yet (and thus have not remitted them) just to be safe.


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## Bird-Dog (Oct 16, 2009)

Hari Seldon said:


> Nope, not mistaking anything. My states law (and I quickly looked up the GA law before replying too to make sure it was the same) requires us, when filing our state tax return, to also declare any out of state or Internet purchase made where the seller or vendor did not withhold sales tax, and pay a use tax on them in an amount equal to the sales tax rate. You are not required to declare the purchase if the seller collected (you paid) sales tax. I didn't say why amazon or dell did so, and I don't care, just that they withheld them. It's also not on the individual to somehow determine if the vendor actually remitted the tax, just that they paid them.
> 
> The GA law where the previous poster resides is the same, although I do not know when you declare these types of purchases there, although I would bet it's also with the state tax return.
> 
> ...


My point was, Amazon does not collect sales tax in states where they are not required to. You made it sound like they did so voluntarily across-the-board.


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## Hari Seldon (Aug 22, 2015)

curmudgeonista said:


> My point was, Amazon does not collect sales tax in states where they are not required to. You made it sound like they did so voluntarily across-the-board.


Well, I said "purchases I make," which is not an accross the board statement, but I suppose others too might have interpreted it the way you did so I appreciate the clarification. Regardless, for whatever reason they do it, collecting sales tax on my purchases keeps me from having to remember the purchase and then remember (or choose) to declare it on my state tax return and pay the use tax at that time. Because whether the seller collects them or not, my state tax law is written so that I am supposed to pay tax on all purchases I make.


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## UBC03 (Nov 18, 2015)

The last thing I want to see during tax season is a reminder of the amount I spent on tobacco ,the prior year. 

My routine is open the box, put the smokes away, destroy the box and receipt. .who needs evidence laying around? Not me.


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