# Tobacco Beatles in C & D Tins



## Thirston (Feb 2, 2011)

This is the second time I’ve found them in my C&D tins. Anyone know what the deal is? I know it’s domestic tobacco so it’s not gassed or whatever they do to imported cigars ( I assume they do it to imported pipe tobacco too) before they can be distributed here in the U.S., but these things can destroy cigar & tobacco collections. 

The first time I encountered them was in a 10-month-old 8oz full tin of Epiphany about a year ago and the second time was this morning in a 2oz 2-year-old tin of Habana Daydream as I was finally jarring it. I tossed both as I did not want to risk them spreading or waste time freezing them or whatever eradication methods ‘might’ work. Also, I started zip-locking all open tins after I first found them and I have not found them anywhere else. Plus, I keep things tidy. I’m afraid to sift through my 4oz’s of aged Billy Bud. Any comments?


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## GlassEye (Oct 25, 2009)

Were these tins open already when you found the beetles, or did you crack the factory seal and immediately discover beetles inside? Were they dead or alive?

It seems as though you have had beetles before (perhaps from cigars) that migrated to the open tins of pipe tobacco. I have never heard of tobacco beetles coming from pipe tobacco, but I have heard about transfer from already infested cigars. I would not think they could survive in a sealed tin for two years.


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## owaindav (Mar 7, 2010)

OK, stop, you guys are scaring me! I'm not listening....:lalala:


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## indigosmoke (Sep 1, 2009)

owaindav said:


> OK, stop, you guys are scaring me! I'm not listening....:lalala:


+++++1 on this.


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## Thirston (Feb 2, 2011)

Apologies for bring this up, by the way :sorry:, but... Yeah, I keep my imported cigars on one side of my house (much more valuable, done on purpose) and my opened pipe tobacco on the other side of my house in a plastic rubbermaid tub (re-closed tins or mason jars and in zip-lock bags). So, yes, the tins were opened GE for the length of time I initially mentioned and the Habana Day Dream was additionally in a zip-locked bagged 'tin' as I mentioned. 

They were very much alive. I've been smoking cigars for 10 years (pipes for 3) and I've never encountered them until I first did with the Epiphany tin. At that time I had to go on-line and do research because I did not know what they were. 

Also, I have never seen dust or holes in any of my cigars. None at all and I don't keep domestic cigars. Thanks for any thoughts guys.


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## Jivey (Dec 6, 2010)

I think finding beetles in your pipe tobacco would be very rare. A lot of the processing procedures used would kill the beetles. (steaming, pressing, etc.) Cigar tobacco is not processed the same way, thus making it easier for the beetles to transfer with the cigars. If the tins had been previously opened I too would be inclined to believe that they migrated from cigars.

I would suggest keeping any of your tobacco, pipe or cigars, below 70 degrees if you can at all help it. 72 - 75 degrees is when the eggs will typically hatch I believe. If were you I would call C&D and let them know what happened. I am sure they would attempt to reconcile this with you and maybe this can help them with future tins, if in fact it is something that they can help on their end.


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## Thirston (Feb 2, 2011)

They are very small and brown (just like tabacco) so they would be nearly impossible to spot in new tins. C&D uses clear tin lids and the first time I encountered one I saw it trying to crawl out of the opened but lid on tin (behind the clear lid lip if that makes sense). I've never seen them in SG, Dunhill, GL Pease, G&W, etc. tins.


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## Thirston (Feb 2, 2011)

Good point on temperature J (I think I remember reading that) as I don't keep my pipe tobacco in a humidor and it does gets really warm here (CA) in summer. I'll stop talking about this now...


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## x6ftundx (Jul 31, 2008)

oh my OCD is now freaking out... I wonder if you don't catch them they pop when heated up? grrrrr now I am all freaking out looking at my celar and wondering if I can see any tins moving... maybe if i shake the tins enough they will all die?


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## indigosmoke (Sep 1, 2009)

This was freaking me out too, until I realized Mark has actually found a group of talented muscians in his tobacco. That doesn't sound so bad. I guess the best thing to do when these things are found is just to Let It Be.


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## Jivey (Dec 6, 2010)

Just keep your tobacco in a cool try place. Beetles is one of the reasons why. Any blends that are stoves, steamed or pressed should be fine. Those processes would kill any beetles that were around. If you are very paranoid you can feeze your tobacco when you get it. It will kill any eggs that are in the tobacco. But if it is anything like cigars, freezing can take away some of the flavors. It's really nothing to worry about. Every vegetable you eat has touched many more bugs than that.


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## User Name (Feb 11, 2011)

indigosmoke said:


> This was freaking me out too, until I realized Mark has actually found a group of talented muscians in his tobacco. That doesn't sound so bad. I guess the best thing to do when these things are found is just to Let It Be.


I imagine smoking with the Beatles did not involve pipe tobacco.


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## Firedawg (Nov 8, 2010)

that caramel flavoring well...





jk!


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## indigosmoke (Sep 1, 2009)

User Name said:


> I imagine smoking with the Beatles did not involve pipe tobacco.


You are probably right about that. :hippie:

At least he found the Beatles. I opened a tin of Squadron Leader once that contained Hanson, and let me tell you, I threw that thing away faster than you can say get a haircut.


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## Zfog (Oct 16, 2010)

For some reason I didn't even think beetles would get in pipe tobacco. I will keep an eye out now!


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## Hermit (Aug 5, 2008)

Pretty surprising that they could live for two years in a 2oz tin.
If they could survive, there must have been many generations.


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## GuitarDan (Nov 26, 2009)

Email C&D- keep us posted! My first reaction aside from "Nooooooooooo!"... is that unless you found them in the unopened factory sealed tins, more likely than not: your environment is to blame.

However, I do believe that such a repugnant accident is entirely possible at the factory. If C&D does/did have a problem you should let them know- just in case they dont... and also allow them a chance to make it up to you if they do know...


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## skydvejam (Feb 27, 2011)

True, we do not know for sure how long they let the tobacco rest in the open before placing it in the tins. I suppose it could have been exposed to the bugs there.


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## dmkerr (Oct 27, 2008)

Jivey said:


> . Any blends that are stoves, steamed or pressed should be fine.


Nope. I just found a tobacco beetle in a fresh tin of JKP. Guess I got to him before he could eat the tobacco. And the tobacco smoked fine. :bounce:


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## Firedawg (Nov 8, 2010)

they will just tell you it is plume...


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## GuitarDan (Nov 26, 2009)

JKP?


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## owaindav (Mar 7, 2010)

Jack Knife Plug


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## CWL (Mar 25, 2010)

Hermit said:


> Pretty surprising that they could live for two years in a 2oz tin.
> If they could survive, there must have been many generations.


Isn't it usually the eggs that get transferred both in cigars and in tobacco? These can remain dormant for a long time until the right conditions (temp & humidity) get them to hatch.


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## x6ftundx (Jul 31, 2008)

OK so right now I want to take all my tins and put them in the freezer but for how long? Overnight or a day or two? Does anyone know...


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## Jivey (Dec 6, 2010)

Here is a How-To for cigars. I have never thought you would need it for pipe tobacco and I think doing it without cause might be an overreaction but if you want just follow the steps in the link.

Killing Tobacco Beetles.


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## MarkC (Jul 4, 2009)

indigosmoke said:


> This was freaking me out too, until I realized Mark has actually found a group of talented muscians in his tobacco. That doesn't sound so bad. I guess the best thing to do when these things are found is just to Let It Be.


I've had to work the Kinks out of pipe cleaners before, but this is going too far...


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## Coffee-Cup (Jan 26, 2010)

x6ftundx said:


> oh my OCD is now freaking out... I wonder if you don't catch them they pop when heated up? grrrrr now I am all freaking out looking at my celar and wondering if I can see any tins moving... maybe if i shake the tins enough they will all die?


1

Danny! Dang-it! I love coming to this forum!:banana:


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## d_day (Aug 24, 2008)

The stoving/steaming/pressing of pipe tobacco _will_ kill any beetles present at the time of the action. However, contamination can still happen at the factory at any point after these processes are complete.

As far as outside sources of beetles are concerned, if there has not been a problem with the cigars, that's probably not the source. The cigarette beetle also attacks many of the dry goods we keep in our homes.

Also, keeping your tobacco below 70 degrees does not prevent eggs from hatching, nor does it keep pupae from developing into adults. The beetles will develop most rapidly at about 96 degrees, and take longer to develop as temperature decreases. To stop them from developing using temperature alone requires constant temps of 62 and below. In the average home that is just not realistic.

I've posted links to quite a few sources for this information many times, but being on my phone makes it much more difficult.


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## Xodar (Mar 4, 2011)

MarkC said:


> I've had to work the Kinks out of pipe cleaners before, but this is going too far...


 The whole thread has me all Helter-Skelter...

Before this thread I'd never heard of such a thing in pipe tobacco. Scary really, has anyone else had personal experience with these beasties?


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## freestoke (Feb 13, 2011)

Xodar said:


> The whole thread has me all Helter-Skelter...
> 
> Before this thread I'd never heard of such a thing in pipe tobacco. Scary really, has anyone else had personal experience with these beasties?


No, but I'll call for HELP! if I need somebody.


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## Xodar (Mar 4, 2011)

MarkC said:


> I've had to work the Kinks out of pipe cleaners before, but this is going too far...





freestoke said:


> No, but I'll call for HELP! if I need somebody.


 You'd have to, couldn't just Let It Be...


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## Jessefive (Oct 21, 2009)

MarkC said:


> I've had to work the Kinks out of pipe cleaners before, but this is going too far...


Ha ha ha!


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## laloin (Jun 29, 2010)

nope never had a problem with beastieboys...has anybody else 
troy


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## Thirston (Feb 2, 2011)

C & D Response for those who care (If I shouldn't have posted it, let me know or delete it)... 

I regret the problem and the inconvenience. Tobacco beetles hatch in the heat and that may be your problem. We're dealing with an agricultural product and the beetles are everywhere unless we treat the tobacco, which is done before we receive it. Put the tins in the freezer for 24-48 hours and that will kill the beetles. Don't bother to searxh for them afterwards. Just smoke the blend. It won't change the taste. Only thing is a little "pop" once in awhile. I'd also recommend bombing the closet, or wherever you keep the tobacco as the beetles can migrate throughout you home. I suggest talking ith an exterminator for the best product. The beetles are persistent and hard to kill
. 
It's too bad you didn't do this the first time you found the beetles. We have had minor troubles only with them so they may have come from other tobacco you had stored in the same location. You may find it helpful to isolate your tobacco in an airtight box and keep that somewhere out of the immediate house. If you have a freezer put all your tobacco in it to make sure you get them all. Freezing will not harm the tobacco.

Please let me know if we can help in any other way and good luck,

Craig


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## Eirik (May 7, 2010)

This is very funny.
Bugs are eating all the tobacco and you are talking about bands playing popularmusic.

When I'm sixtyfour, sitting there popping a tin I bought a day in the life and the bugs have eaten it all I've probably forgotten how fun it was! Then the only thing I've got to look forward to is the next Rolling Stones concert.

Edit: Well good luck Mark. I did'nt see your post before I wrote this. Hope things work out all right. Let us know how it turns out.


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## User Name (Feb 11, 2011)

Thirston said:


> C & D Response for those who care (If I shouldn't have posted it, let me know or delete it)...
> 
> I regret the problem and the inconvenience. Tobacco beetles hatch in the heat and that may be your problem. We're dealing with an agricultural product and the beetles are everywhere unless we treat the tobacco, which is done before we receive it. Put the tins in the freezer for 24-48 hours and that will kill the beetles. Don't bother to searxh for them afterwards. Just smoke the blend. It won't change the taste. Only thing is a little "pop" once in awhile. I'd also recommend bombing the closet, or wherever you keep the tobacco as the beetles can migrate throughout you home. I suggest talking ith an exterminator for the best product. The beetles are persistent and hard to kill
> .
> ...


so basically...oops.


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## Zeabed (Apr 23, 2009)

skydvejam said:


> True, we do not know for sure how long they let the tobacco rest in the open before placing it in the tins. I suppose it could have been exposed to the bugs there.


I thought about that possibility too. But... nah, honestly I don't see anything wrong with their temporary storage arrangements.


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## dmkerr (Oct 27, 2008)

Thirston said:


> Only thing is a little "pop" once in awhile.


POP goes the beeeeeeetle!!!!!


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## User Name (Feb 11, 2011)

The broom adds a nice touch


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## Zeabed (Apr 23, 2009)

User Name said:


> The broom adds a nice touch


I agree. That is another indication of neatness and pulchritude.


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## User Name (Feb 11, 2011)

Is that jack actually holding machinery up? As in, a "permanent" solution?

LOL. please tell me my eyes are bad. 

Looks like a jack...on top of a crate....holding up machinery.


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## User Name (Feb 11, 2011)

I thought I tasted Nike in that Pirate Kake.


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## Zeabed (Apr 23, 2009)

Don't worry Username. It's stoved and pressed at the source, a process which elminates any cooties.


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## teedles915 (Jun 18, 2009)

Not that you guys want to see this but.....

http://www.cigarforums.net/forums/vb/general-pipe-forum/121149-cigar-beetles-my-pipe-tobacco.html


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## Coffee-Cup (Jan 26, 2010)

Zeabed said:


> I thought about that possibility too. But... nah, honestly I don't see anything wrong with their temporary storage arrangements.


Wow Zeabed! That is absolutely scary!:scared:


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## szyzk (Nov 27, 2010)

indigosmoke said:


> I guess the best thing to do when these things are found is just to Let It Be.


When I find myself with tins of trouble
Friends on Puff come to me
Speaking words of wisdom: contact C&D

And though my tin was sealed in darkness
A beetle's standing right in front of me
A creepy, crawly beetle - I'll let it be

C&D, C&D
C&D, oh C&D
Replace my nasty tobaccy
C&D


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## MarkC (Jul 4, 2009)

That's it; toss him! :rofl:


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## szyzk (Nov 27, 2010)

MarkC said:


> That's it; toss him! :rofl:


I'm like a modern-day Ringo.


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## owaindav (Mar 7, 2010)

Thirston said:


> C & D Response for those who care (If I shouldn't have posted it, let me know or delete it)...
> 
> I regret the problem and the inconvenience. Tobacco beetles hatch in the heat and that may be your problem. We're dealing with an agricultural product and the beetles are everywhere unless we treat the tobacco, which is done before we receive it. Put the tins in the freezer for 24-48 hours and that will kill the beetles. Don't bother to searxh for them afterwards. Just smoke the blend. It won't change the taste. Only thing is a little "pop" once in awhile. I'd also recommend bombing the closet, or wherever you keep the tobacco as the beetles can migrate throughout you home. I suggest talking ith an exterminator for the best product. The beetles are persistent and hard to kill
> .
> ...


Wow, was it just me or did this sound kind of like Keanu Reeves wrote this. "Woah! Sorry dude. It sucks but it happens. Like, just close your eyes and they won't be there."

I guess I agree with them on a certain level but it's not the best customer service answer. They could have at least tried to make sure stuff was spelled correctly. I have to say I'm a bit disappointed.


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## User Name (Feb 11, 2011)

owaindav said:


> Wow, was it just me or did this sound kind of like Keanu Reeves wrote this. "Woah! Sorry dude. It sucks but it happens. Like, just close your eyes and they won't be there."
> 
> I guess I agree with them on a certain level but it's not the best customer service answer. They could have at least tried to make sure stuff was spelled correctly. I have to say I'm a bit disappointed.


I agree with you on this one Dave. Maybe his message he wanted to communicate just didn't translate through email very well.

Wasn't the response I was expecting either.


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## Thirston (Feb 2, 2011)

owaindav said:


> Wow, was it just me or did this sound kind of like Keanu Reeves wrote this.


Hilarious&#8230; He did seem a bit blasé about the whole thing which immediately made me think that it might be an everyday constant battle for them and he's heard it all before. I don't know. Anyway, the jack is now a permanent part of our machinery pic says a lot about the industry and I did not expect much in the return email, but C&D is quite big now and I think he is a key part of their team so&#8230; did get the response in 45mins.

The good news is I might loose a few pounds while the freezer treatment is happening because I had to turn it way down (or is it up?, colder anway) so my ice cream is not practical to eat anymore at a moments notice. Also, I did set out some bait in the closet in the form of a few 25 cent cigars I have had no business owning for the past 5 years, but did not throw away even though they taste like lung butter. -Will see what happens. Thanks for posting that Peterson tin forum thread.


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## freestoke (Feb 13, 2011)

"Only thing is a little "pop" once in awhile. ":jaw:


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## shannensmall (Jun 30, 2010)

Wile his response wasn't what I would have expected either, I can't say I'm surprised. When in the cigar world, if you get beetles, you don't get replacement satisfaction from the manufacture, you don't even really write them about it. You take this up with the B&M or etailer who sold the lil b*sterds to you. 

During the hotter months, Cigars International, seems to have quit a few infested shipments go out. Every time though, they always make good and send replacements and an apology. 

I realize CI's storage, and handling of the cigars can be looked at as the responsible party for the infestation. Kind of a different story when you are looking at a beetle in a sealed tin of baccy that hasn't been opened since it was sealed at the manufacturer. But also, most manufacturers, are not set up to handle these type of customer complaints. They simple do not deal with the end customer. Their job is to deal with the retail seller.

I guess, what I'm getting at is that there are proper channels for getting replacement satisfaction on any product (not that you were looking for a replacement) be it baccy or a stereo. Most of them do not involve going through the manufacturer.

In the case of this letter, I think that's how this company looked at it. "Not their problem" I think he could have stated it better, but eh what do I know.


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## Zeabed (Apr 23, 2009)

Coffee-Cup said:


> Wow Zeabed! That is absolutely scary!:scared:


Now don't you worry Coffee-Cup. As you can see the baccy is arranged neatly in a magic circle, as prescribed by Paracelsus and Eliphas Levi to keep out the bad spirits, including any tobacco bugs that by some incredible fluke may have wandered into the premises. Also, note in User Name's post (#42) that they are using the wine-stomping method to destroy any bugs that might have gotten into the flakes there. And they're using smelly, tobacco-stained Nikes to do so. No devil-sent insect would be able to withstand that smell. Potential problem solved, I say. This is particularly good to know because I understand that they also blend and tin GLP tobacco. So what's the rumpus? - to quote Gabriel Byrne.


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## freestoke (Feb 13, 2011)

Zeabed said:


> No devil-sent insect would be able to withstand that smell.


The devil-sent hate to be devil-scented and smelling to high heaven.


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## owaindav (Mar 7, 2010)

User Name said:


> I thought I tasted Nike in that Pirate Kake.


That's why your latakia can taste a bit rubbery at times!


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## GuitarDan (Nov 26, 2009)

I know we're not eating the tobacco and only smoking it, but would it kill them to at least put a clean tarp on the floor and not walk in it?

I imagine it's like any factory made product (canned vegetables, sausage, etc...) in that if I enjoy it and can buy it at a reasonable price; I probably am better off not seeing how it's made...

Damn! now I've got to try and convince myself that any crackles are just wet dottle...

While I appreciate C&D for their candor and fast response, the notion of just smoke the bug eggs and larvae is sooooo completely disgusting me it's going to put me off the pipe for a while.


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## indigosmoke (Sep 1, 2009)

shannensmall said:


> Wile his response wasn't what I would have expected either, I can't say I'm surprised. When in the cigar world, if you get beetles, you don't get replacement satisfaction from the manufacture, you don't even really write them about it. You take this up with the B&M or etailer who sold the lil b*sterds to you.
> 
> During the hotter months, Cigars International, seems to have quit a few infested shipments go out. Every time though, they always make good and send replacements and an apology.
> 
> ...


Good points, Shannen, although C&D does sell directly to the public so they are a retailer as well and should have a better notion of how to respond to a customer than this. I guess I'm still hung up on the old Disney service recovery methodology, LAST...Listen, Apologize, Solve, Thank, which goes a long way with most folks. If they feel that the customer should contact the retailer they could have politely explained this. As much as I like C&D I do think they could have handled this better. Better to send out a couple of tins than to maybe lose a customer for life in my book. I can't imagine they are inundated with pipe smoking scammers claiming they found tobacco beetles in their unopened tins. Their just smoke it the worst you'll hear is a pop is incredibly ham fisted IMO. Kind of reminded me of the old "Waiter, there's a fly in my soup." "Quiet, or everyone will want one!" joke.

Oh, and guys you can stop with the C&D pictures. Point taken, but it's kind of like the old better not to see how the sausage is made thing.


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## Zeabed (Apr 23, 2009)

freestoke said:


> The devil-sent hate to be devil-scented and smelling to high heaven.


I stand corrected. I was just trying to put a nice spin on things. Looking for the silver lining in the Nike, as it were. :wacko:


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## freestoke (Feb 13, 2011)

GuitarDan said:


> Damn! now I've got to try and convince myself that any crackles are just wet dottle...


Gives new meaning to those tobacco reviews that mention a taste of BBQ.


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## freestoke (Feb 13, 2011)

indigosmoke said:


> As much as I like C&D I do think they could have handled this better. Better to send out a couple of tins than to maybe lose a customer for life in my book.


Or dozens, in this case.


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## indigosmoke (Sep 1, 2009)

freestoke said:


> Gives new meaning to those tobacco reviews that mention a taste of BBQ.


Stop giving away McClelland's trade secrets. We don't want the Chinese knocking off Frog Morton and selling it for $1.00 a tin.

I can see it now...C&D Beetle Blend. Kind of the Pop Rocks of the tobacco world. They could put these guys on the label:


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## shannensmall (Jun 30, 2010)

indigosmoke said:


> Good points, Shannen, although C&D does sell directly to the public so they are a retailer as well and should have a better notion of how to respond to a customer than this.


Ah, I see. I was not aware of this. In that case, yes you are right, they more than should have handled this better.:brick:


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## Jack Straw (Nov 20, 2008)

I love how Craig's response is just to smoke the bastages. 

Tobacco beetles give me the heebie jeebies.

As to the "incriminating photos," I'm sure that floor is cleaned mopped regularly. Just for the record, tobacco isn't grown in a vacuum, it grows in dirt. It's also stored and cured in dirty barns, is transported on dirty wood, in dirty trucks. I'm seeing a pattern here! Luckily we consume it using fire. I bet there is more bacteria on a typical cell phone than there is on the bottom of the Nike.


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## Jack Straw (Nov 20, 2008)

BTW, you haven't lived until you get a half-kilo of GH rope that is held together with a rusty nail. I think it's intended as a free tamper. :lol: I also once got a pound of Dan Limerick that had a piece of string pressed into a bunch of the flakes, it was easy enough to take out without damaging them.


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## shannensmall (Jun 30, 2010)

Jack Straw said:


> I love how Craig's response is just to smoke the bastages.
> 
> Tobacco beetles give me the heebie jeebies.
> 
> As to the "incriminating photos," I'm sure that floor is cleaned mopped regularly. *Just for the record, tobacco isn't grown in a vacuum, it grows in dirt. It's also stored and cured in dirty barns, is transported on dirty wood, in dirty trucks. I'm seeing a pattern here! Luckily we consume it using fire. I bet there is more bacteria on a typical cell phone than there is on the bottom of the Nike*.


You know, I can't help but think the same thing any time I hear someone talking about sterilizing their storage jars.


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## Xodar (Mar 4, 2011)

szyzk said:


> When I find myself with tins of trouble
> Friends on Puff come to me
> Speaking words of wisdom: contact C&D
> 
> ...


Positively inspired Szyzk!!
Now whenever a bowl of tobacco pops I am going to be thinking "BEETLE!"


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## cakeanddottle (Mar 14, 2011)

I wonder what the right balance of beetles for different blends is. Do you think it would take more beetles to add depth and spice to an English than a Va/Per or about the same? I wonder if Greg Pease has played with the beetle content in his blends. Blenders should state beetle volume and what species of tobacco beetle is in their blends. Some species might be more desirable than others.


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## skydvejam (Feb 27, 2011)

Wow whatever you all do, DO NOT visit a ketchup factory. I have seen the delivery's that happen there. Or witness a food processing plant. Before the military I was a both a cook, and a restaurant manager, and let me tell you, it would blow you away how food is processed. This is why we cook it, or in tobacco's case, consume it with fire. 
Just think about what the water you drink goes through until you drink it. Or how they clean your water, that can be interesting as well.
Granted smoking bugs, not quite my goal, and something I care to avoid.


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## Zeabed (Apr 23, 2009)

Jack Straw said:


> I love how Craig's response is just to smoke the bastages.
> 
> Tobacco beetles give me the heebie jeebies.
> 
> As to the "incriminating photos," I'm sure that floor is cleaned mopped regularly. Just for the record, tobacco isn't grown in a vacuum, it grows in dirt. It's also stored and cured in dirty barns, is transported on dirty wood, in dirty trucks. I'm seeing a pattern here! Luckily we consume it using fire. I bet there is more bacteria on a typical cell phone than there is on the bottom of the Nike.


And I thought _I _was good at putting a spin of niceness on things. I want to embrace your view of things, as I love several C&D blends and have many of them (and GLPs too) cellared up. But for the sake of argument consider this: I hope they mopped after using a straw broom to clean that floor. Also, men urinate standing up. Sometimes... sometimes.... micturition does sprinkle onto and laces the shoelaces and the top of the material. I believe Nikes are particularly absorbent. Also, isn't that shack located very close to cow country? Fire purifies yes, but only the tobacco that is actually being incinerated at that moment, while the smoker is sucking on all the tobacco contained in the bowl. Sometimes puffing feverishly, with fruition. Of course, there are the lucky ones who never had to spit out any bits of unburnt tobacco that made it through the airway. :fear:


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## owaindav (Mar 7, 2010)

skydvejam said:


> Wow whatever you all do, DO NOT visit a ketchup factory. I have seen the delivery's that happen there.


Did you go to the same one that McClelland uses?


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## User Name (Feb 11, 2011)

Zeabed said:


> And I thought _I _was good at putting a spin of niceness on things. I want to embrace your view of things, as I love several C&D blends and have many of them (and GLPs too) cellared up. But for the sake of argument consider this: I hope they mopped after using a straw broom to clean that floor. Also, men urinate standing up. Sometimes... sometimes.... micturition does sprinkle onto and laces the shoelaces and the top of the material. I believe Nikes are particularly absorbent. Also, isn't that shack located very close to cow country? Fire purifies yes, but only the tobacco that is actually being incinerated at that moment, while the smoker is sucking on all the tobacco contained in the bowl. Sometimes puffing feverishly, with fruition. Of course, there are the lucky ones who never had to spit out any bits of unburnt tobacco that made it through the airway. :fear:


Don't people normally put stuff on...tables?


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## skydvejam (Feb 27, 2011)

owaindav said:


> Did you go to the same one that McClelland uses?


No I think that one might be a little cleaner, and with less "additives" that are not listed on the ingredients list, but I am sure adds to the flavor.


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## szyzk (Nov 27, 2010)

Xodar said:


> Positively inspired Szyzk!!
> Now whenever a bowl of tobacco pops I am going to be thinking "BEETLE!"


I was going to go with "Everybody's Got Something To Hide Except For Me And My Beetle" but others were already discussing "Let It Be" so I stuck with that.


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## indigosmoke (Sep 1, 2009)

Zeabed said:


> And I thought _I _was good at putting a spin of niceness on things. I want to embrace your view of things, as I love several C&D blends and have many of them (and GLPs too) cellared up. But for the sake of argument consider this: I hope they mopped after using a straw broom to clean that floor. Also, men urinate standing up. Sometimes... sometimes.... micturition does sprinkle onto and laces the shoelaces and the top of the material. I believe Nikes are particularly absorbent. Also, isn't that shack located very close to cow country? Fire purifies yes, but only the tobacco that is actually being incinerated at that moment, while the smoker is sucking on all the tobacco contained in the bowl. Sometimes puffing feverishly, with fruition. Of course, there are the lucky ones who never had to spit out any bits of unburnt tobacco that made it through the airway. :fear:


And I thought all I had to worry about was a few nasty beetles!

They should just quit with the current warning labels they are putting on tobacco and put these photos and the above statement on the package. It would probably do more to stop smoking than telling people that they might get cancer 30 years from now. And to add to your delightful scenerio I imagine one or two farmers along the way need to heed nature's call while they're in the field, etc. Seriously, I'm surprised the Antis haven't gotten on to this line of reasoning yet.

Another thought...after the 20 page thread arguing back and forth on the dangers of using IPA to clean pipes, I can't wait for the one on the dangers of inhaling combusted urine.

I do want to thank everyone for contributing to this thread. Now I won't be spending so much of my money on tobacco. Look for an upcoming WTS thread with all my tobacco and pipes.

I'm going to go see if the hotel suite in Vegas Howard Hughes used to lock himself into is still available.

Pardon me while I go and boil myself. :bathbaby:


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## indigosmoke (Sep 1, 2009)

User Name said:


> Don't people normally put stuff on...tables?


ROFLMAO. You forget, this is North Carolina. They don't use any of those candy a## Yankee liberal tables around there.


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## owaindav (Mar 7, 2010)

indigosmoke said:


> Pardon me while I go and boil myself. :bathbaby:


Dang it John, you did it again! Now I need some ibuprofen. And a vat of isopropyl.


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## Coffee-Cup (Jan 26, 2010)

Zeabed said:


> Now don't you worry Coffee-Cup. As you can see the baccy is arranged neatly in a magic circle, as prescribed by Paracelsus and Eliphas Levi to keep out the bad spirits, including any tobacco bugs that by some incredible fluke may have wandered into the premises. Also, note in User Name's post (#42) that they are using the wine-stomping method to destroy any bugs that might have gotten into the flakes there. And they're using smelly, tobacco-stained Nikes to do so. No devil-sent insect would be able to withstand that smell. Potential problem solved, I say. This is particularly good to know because I understand that they also blend and tin GLP tobacco. So what's the rumpus? - to quote Gabriel Byrne.


Zeabed! Regardless of the "Beetle Problem" it is my hope that C&D make a small investment in a table or some other kind of apparatus that at least gives the impression of handling a product of value.:nod: I have no illusion about the processing of tobacco but in this phase of their production they could do better.:ranger:


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## shannensmall (Jun 30, 2010)

Zeabed said:


> And I thought _I _was good at putting a spin of niceness on things. I want to embrace your view of things, as I love several C&D blends and have many of them (and GLPs too) cellared up. But for the sake of argument consider this: I hope they mopped after using a straw broom to clean that floor. Also, men urinate standing up. Sometimes... sometimes.... micturition does sprinkle onto and laces the shoelaces and the top of the material. I believe Nikes are particularly absorbent. Also, isn't that shack located very close to cow country? Fire purifies yes, but only the tobacco that is actually being incinerated at that moment, while the smoker is sucking on all the tobacco contained in the bowl. Sometimes puffing feverishly, with fruition. Of course, there are the lucky ones who never had to spit out any bits of unburnt tobacco that made it through the airway. :fear:


The FDA allows for a certain percentage of rodent feces, urine, hair, body parts and bugs in all of our foods. I read somewhere once, that eating a box of cereal almost guarantees the ingestion of something like 2.5 insects. Probably more.:scared:


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## freestoke (Feb 13, 2011)

shannensmall said:


> I read somewhere once, that eating a box of cereal almost guarantees the ingestion of something like 2.5 insects. Probably more.:scared:


That ups the protein content. Low cholesterol, too.


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## User Name (Feb 11, 2011)

indigosmoke said:


> ROFLMAO. You forget, this is North Carolina. They don't use any of those candy a## Yankee liberal tables around there.


*Lunch time at C&D*


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## Zeabed (Apr 23, 2009)

indigosmoke said:


> And I thought all I had to worry about was a few nasty beetles!
> 
> They should just quit with the current warning labels they are putting on tobacco and put these photos and the above statement on the package. It would probably do more to stop smoking than telling people that they might get cancer 30 years from now. And to add to your delightful scenerio I imagine one or two farmers along the way need to heed nature's call while they're in the field, etc. Seriously, I'm surprised the Antis haven't gotten on to this line of reasoning yet.
> 
> ...


I did caveat my hypothesis (that's all it was after all) as being submitted for the sake of thought-provoking discussion. But oh no, I wouldn't want the OP's experience and the photos taken by Pipes Magazine, innocent and innocuous in themselves I'm sure, to ever be the cause for anyone giving up tobacco. I certainly won't. In retrospect, I should have ignored the initial bad impression I received from those images. I love Bayou Morning, Exhausted Rooster, Epiphany, Morleys Blend, etc.

Please forget the photos and the hypotheses and qualms expressed by earlier posters. Everything is fine. Everything is o.k. I do hope we can regain our former state of bliss and eschew any irrational and unpleasant thoughts that may have been stirred by these images. To do otherwise is surely to side with the enemy. And look on the bright side: I'm sure no varmints like rabid raccoons or rats are able to get into those facilities and contaminate that clean floor. :beerchug::hippie::cheer2::deadhorse:


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## Zeabed (Apr 23, 2009)

shannensmall said:


> The FDA allows for a certain percentage of rodent feces, urine, hair, body parts and bugs in all of our foods. I read somewhere once, that eating a box of cereal almost guarantees the ingestion of something like 2.5 insects. Probably more.:scared:


Good point! And I understand that insect carcasses still retain a certain amount of nutritious protein, which can only add to the goodness of a healthy cereal breakfast. But I also understand that the food has been cooked or otherwise processed to eliminate contaminants. So you would be eating sanitized rodent feces, congealed urine, etc. And I'm sure the same is true for the treatment of tobaccco after all that stepping around and spreading on the floor. :dude:


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## Zeabed (Apr 23, 2009)

User Name said:


> *Lunch time at C&D*


And note that their feet are clear of the mat.


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## FiveStar (Jan 7, 2010)

Look guys, I hate to tell ya, but if you think that pile of tobacco is unsanitary then you obviously have never worked baccer before.

When burley comes out of a barn from drying, it's got all kinds of scary stuff in it. Mold. Bugs. It's been hanging from the rafters of an old barn by sticks that are 10 or more years old. It sits in piles on a dirt floor and is pulled by folks spatting cope on the floor. Clean it is not.

That picture you have there of a pile of baccy on the floor, and being sorted and rubbed while touching a pair of shoes is simply showing you what goes into a hand made product that's being produced by real people. I'm sure the bigger tobacco blending houses have a nice sanitary mechanized production line that would make Coca-Cola bust a nut. But the Tarlers are good folk who've built a high quality tobacco blending house right here in the continental US. Their methods may not be perfect (are their flakes even flakes?) but they're not working with the money and force of a huge tobacco conglomerate. They're producing handmade products from natural raw materials in an honest and humble means. 

I understand and completely agree that beetles in any tobacco product totally sucks! I fear these guys as much as anyone else. But to hate on C&D's production practices is completely laughable, and slightly insulting to your love of the leaf. This stuff is not a sterile clean enterprise. Producing the finely pressed flake or well blended mixture we all seek means taming a real beast of an agricultural product and dressing up what are essentially rotten leaves. 

Don't dilute yourself into believing that someone is carefully laying each perfectly manicured leaf into a press and lovingly smoothing the creases before gently pressing them in pristine aircraft grade aluminum blocks. Bugs, dirt, and yes shoestrings happen!


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## User Name (Feb 11, 2011)

*C&D Take your Kids to Work Day*


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## Zeabed (Apr 23, 2009)

FiveStar said:


> Look guys, I hate to tell ya, but *if you think that pile of tobacco is unsanitary* then you obviously have never worked baccer before. [...snip...]
> 
> I'm sure the bigger tobacco blending houses have a nice sanitary mechanized production line that would make Coca-Cola bust a nut.


:horn::twitch: :bathbaby: Well, I do think that the pile of tobacco is unsanitary, even without having worked baccer. I do not disrespect my love of the leaf by commenting on an original post. And I welcome any effort to improve cleanliness and other measures that would prevent further attacks on this industry by denying them any claim to plausibility or justification.


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## teedles915 (Jun 18, 2009)

Landis is telling facts here guys. I worked in tobacco in my younger days to make some extra cash. The process of growing baccy is def not one of the most sanitary things in the world. I have seen all kind of things happen to it along the way. Rats, mice, cats and all sorts of animal live in the hung tobacco. Not to mention it is hung in a dusty dirty barn that has a dirt floor. One time while working the wagon while hanging the tobacco a black large black snake fell as I was handing a stick up and laned on my foot, just goes to show you never know what's in there.

With all that said I still love it. I love cigars, enjoy a pipe, and am hopelessly addicted to Copenhagen.


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## MarkC (Jul 4, 2009)

During my stint in the tobacco farming world, I was more concerned with getting the damned tar out of my arm hair than I was of keeping the baccy clean...


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## commonsenseman (Apr 18, 2008)

This thread has disturbed me in so many ways.

1) I don't think it's rational to fear tobacco beetles in our pipe tobacco, it appears to be so rare we've had 2 threads about it in the last 4 years.

2) C&D makes some awesome tobacco, I will continue to buy from them.

3) Keep your pipe tobacco in a cool, dry, dark environment. It will benefit greatly.

4) Will smoking the beetles harm you in any way? I mean, I know it's gross, but come on.

5) I love pipe tobacco partially because of how natural it is. It's not meant to be perfectly sanitary. If that bothers you just dip it in bleach before smoking.

6) Send all your tobacco to me if you're scared, I promise to take good care of it :biggrin:


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## indigosmoke (Sep 1, 2009)

Easy, guys. I think we are all just kidding. At least I was. I mean, I did think that C&D's response to Thirston could have been better, so I meant that part, but the rest was just playing around. After all it's tobacco, not health food.


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## User Name (Feb 11, 2011)

indigosmoke said:


> Easy, guys. I think we are all just kidding. At least I was. I mean, I did think that C&D's response to Thirston could have been better, so I meant that part, but the rest was just playing around. After all it's tobacco, not health food.


I love C&D too, just having some fun. oke:


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## commonsenseman (Apr 18, 2008)

Crap, I meant my post in a funny way, apparently I'm losing my touch :tape:


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## freestoke (Feb 13, 2011)

indigosmoke said:


> Easy, guys. I think we are all just kidding. At least I was. I mean, I did think that C&D's response to Thirston could have been better, so I meant that part, but the rest was just playing around. After all it's tobacco, not health food.


I thought it was my primary source of Vitamin N!! I thought a "tobacconist" was like a pharmacist or something and all that pretty packaging HAD have stuff in there that was really good for you. You know, just like candy.

This is crushing. I thought it was a healthy dietary supplement. Nobody ever told ME there was something wrong with tobacco. Wow. Not a health food!? Who knew?


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## shannensmall (Jun 30, 2010)

I'm just as appalled as you are Jim. Who knew baccy wasn't good for you.


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## indigosmoke (Sep 1, 2009)

commonsenseman said:


> Crap, I meant my post in a funny way, apparently I'm losing my touch :tape:


I knew you were kidding, my friend. Just a coincidence that my post followed yours. I was worried about some of the other posts. I didn't want anyone who came across this thread in the future to think we were _*really*_ picking on Craig and Patty. I consider them the grand ol' couple of the the pipe tobacco world, as I know many others do as well. Anyone who makes pipe tobacco in this day and age is a hero in my book.

As for worrying about the sanitary aspects of pipe tobacco production, well, I eat in plenty of restaurants. Having worked in several restaurants over the years, from local dives to the finest of fine dining restaurants, well, how should I put this...hmmmmm.... let's just say the human body is remarkably good at dealing with biological contamination.

Insects do give me the creeps, in any form however. I guess I'm a bit of an entomophobic.


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## indigosmoke (Sep 1, 2009)

shannensmall said:


> I'm just as appalled as you are Jim. Who knew baccy wasn't good for you.


It's great for you. Let's face it, all that spinach mumbo jumbo was just a cover. Popeye didn't want Bluto to know that his real strength came from what was in his pipe!


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## freestoke (Feb 13, 2011)

indigosmoke said:


> It's great for you. Let's face it, all that spinach mumbo jumbo was just a cover. Popeye didn't want Bluto to know that his real strength came from what was in his pipe!


Damn! I thought he WAS smoking spinach!

So you're saying A) It's not a healthy, but B) It's great for you, ie, makes you very strong. Starting to sound like steroids to me. Is that what the "Strong", "Very Strong" and "Extremely Strong" and "Overwhelming" ratings are all about?


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## indigosmoke (Sep 1, 2009)

removed: double post


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## indigosmoke (Sep 1, 2009)

freestoke said:


> So you're saying A) It's not a healthy, but B) It's great for you, ie, makes you very strong. Starting to sound like steroids to me. Is that what the "Strong", "Very Strong" and "Extremely Strong" and "Overwhelming" ratings are all about?


Well, here's a recent pic of Greg Pease. You can draw your own conclusions.


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## freestoke (Feb 13, 2011)

indigosmoke said:


> Popeye didn't want Bluto to know that his real strength came from what was in his pipe!


This is just wrong. I've checked the documentary tapes and Popeye is not only pouring a can of spinach directly into his pipe -- an entire can at that -- and using it as a blowtorch to melt a hole in the side of a submarine, but doing it underwater. Not even M79 can do that. (Clearly, spinach reacts even more violently than pipe tobacco when packed too tightly.)

I think I have it now. Bluto's problem was that he didn't smoke at all. Not enough Vitamin N in his diet, probably.


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## Natedogg (Jun 21, 2010)

I am telling you, they are telling us it's bad for us just to scare us away from the fact that it'll keep us young forever! The beetles just add to the benefits; it's like a shot of protein with your Vitamin N!


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## indigosmoke (Sep 1, 2009)

freestoke said:


> This is just wrong. I've checked the documentary tapes and Popeye is not only pouring a can of spinach directly into his pipe -- an entire can at that -- and using it as a blowtorch to melt a hole in the side of a submarine, but doing it underwater. Not even M79 can do that. (Clearly, spinach reacts even more violently than pipe tobacco when packed too tightly.)
> 
> I think I have it now. Bluto's problem was that he didn't smoke at all. Not enough Vitamin N in his diet, probably.


Let's face it. Popeye was one strange cat. Here's an interesting quote about him:

"Originally, the comic-strip Popeye gained his strength and invulnerability in 1929 by rubbing the head of the rare Whiffle Hen."


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## FiveStar (Jan 7, 2010)

OK, I hope my post didn't come off as overly defensive. I just didn't want to see the folks at C&D have their name dragged through the mud because their tobacco spent some time on a relatively clean concrete floor! LOL Seemed a bit extreme to me. I don't know them personally or anything, but they're local and I've spoken to them on the phone. Can't exactly call up the folks at Orlik and drop by for a tour!


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## skydvejam (Feb 27, 2011)

OK OK I could not resist, and this is a wonderful read anyways, granted this is part 3 of it, and out here I can not see the video, but go here for a few pics of the orlik shop, they have MacB's in here too a page or two back.


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## shannensmall (Jun 30, 2010)

That's pretty cool. If you notice in the rolling bulls eye video, the worker wasn't wearing gloves. I have to wonder what her nicotine blood levels are. Handling all that tobacco..just wow, I can only imagine.


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## indigosmoke (Sep 1, 2009)

shannensmall said:


> That's pretty cool. If you notice in the rolling bulls eye video, the worker wasn't wearing gloves. I have to wonder what her nicotine blood levels are. Handling all that tobacco..just wow, I can only imagine.


She can probably smoke a Dunhill Group 6 full of Irish Flake and not feel the nic! My kind of girl!


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## User Name (Feb 11, 2011)

indigosmoke said:


> She can probably smoke a Dunhill Group 6 full of Irish Flake and not feel the nic! My kind of girl!


She probably eats the ropes like redvines.


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## shannensmall (Jun 30, 2010)

Now that's a woman!


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