# Havanas.... Dates to remember,,



## ESP (Jan 1, 2000)

Here is a glossary of some important dates and changes of markings on Havana's boxes,, to whom it may concern! 

1912 - The Havana seal (green stamp) started to appear

pre 1961 - MADE IN HAVANA CUBA (in English, that's pre embargo, actually embargo was imposed in 1962)

1961 - 1970's 
Hecho En Cuba
Green stamps - good print quality - crisp

1970's - 1985
Hecho En Cuba
Green stamps - poor print quality

1985 - End of 1994
Cubatabaco plus leaf logo
factory codes and date codes
Hecho En Cuba
green stamp
1989 - now
TOTALMENTE A MANO was added 

1995 - now
Habanos s.a. (replaced Cubatabaco & leaf logo)
factory codes (jumbled since 

Note - in late 1994 to 1995, Cubatabaco changed many of the blends to milder, this was due to shortage of leaves (several years of bad weather and specially storm of the Century in March 1993), as well as collapse of the Soviet Union that caused shortage of raw material,, in 1994 the production went down to 50 mil. Vs. 80 mil in 1990) however the quality of those cigars as far as I remember are some of the best - if you can get them.

The blends changed again in (second half of 2000) to again milder - this time the wrappers are Habano 2000 and there is less ligero (strong filler),,

the saga continues!


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## seagarsmoker (Jan 1, 2000)

Thanks ESP. 
Yeah the 93/94/95 time period was really bad for us ISOM lovers. Bad as in not being able to have all brands and sizes available. I remember how hard it was to find stuff at LCDH, of course back then most of the stuff on the shelves was at least two years old. You comment on the quality during that time is head-on. I've had some great stuff from 94. 
fun,fun,fun,
JBrown


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## mcgoospot (Jan 1, 2000)

*RE: A Bolivar Weekend*


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## jsl (Dec 12, 1997)

ESP,

Great post! I'll cut and paste this one for future reference. I have some Montecristo Especiales from '94 that are outstanding. Now I know why. 

Jim


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## Da Klugs (Jan 8, 2005)

ESP said:


> Here is a glossary of some important dates and changes of markings on Havana's boxes,, to whom it may concern!
> 
> 1912 - The Havana seal (green stamp) started to appear
> 
> ...


Another oldie but goodie.


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## ESP (Jan 1, 2000)

May 2001 :r 

I had no idea such post exists! you have mega zeal to dig up this stuff!


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## Bruce (Dec 31, 1999)

good info.....

I remember during the mid-90's is was impossible to find just about any robusto, figurado, or double corona. Some of the cigars that are common and "pedestrian" today were considered very rare. Impossible to get Cohiba robustos.
RA Coronas and 898's were selling for around $80 to $100 per stick IF you could find them.
Stuff like the Upmann SC and Punch Monarca were super rare and highly valued.

But for the most part, pickings were pretty slim and if you did come across something that was hard to find, you had to snatch it up immediately or it was gone!

Box codes did appear a little before 1985. I have some boxes from the late 80's with box codes. As with anything from Cuba, there are always a few discrepencies.

You guys nowdays don't know how well you have it!
I used to have to call tobacconist (getting up at 4am to place an order was a pain in the a$$!) as most websites didn't exist and e-commerce was in it's infancy. I would then have to fax my order in......and half the time by the time the tobacconist got to my order, the item was sold out!

The 94/95 crop of cigars were very good.....as ESP said some of the best cigars came from those years. The blend change was VERY dramatic it's was a shame! Classic havanas like the BBF and BRC were no longer the classic cigars they once were.


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## SDmate (Apr 24, 2005)

search usage 101 
Prof Klugs has just demonstrated how to use the SEARCH button 
newbies hope your takin note 

great find mate


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## Lamar (Dec 12, 1997)

Thanks for the post!


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## Da Klugs (Jan 8, 2005)

ESP said:


> May 2001 :r
> 
> I had no idea such post exists! you have mega zeal to dig up this stuff!


Hell I thought you were dead and these were drawings transcribed from cave walls. 

Bruce thanks for sharing your experiences as well. I can't speak for the rest of the Newbs, but input and thoughts from those of you with decades of experience is very much appreciated.


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## ToddziLLa (Oct 17, 2005)

Nice post!


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## RPB67 (Mar 26, 2005)

Great post.

Cut and pasted to the Palm Pilot already.

Thanks


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## Fredster (Jan 26, 2004)

ESP said:


> Here is a glossary of some important dates and changes of markings on Havana's boxes,, to whom it may concern!
> 
> 1912 - The Havana seal (green stamp) started to appear
> 
> ...


Great post. The 94 smokes I've had have all been awsome. Especially the 94 R.A. C.G.! On the blends in the later half of 2000, not all were changed and I don't think all of the cigars got the dreaded H2000 wrapper. Had some smokes from this time that seemed to be lacking ligero and some that were fantastic.


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## MoTheMan (May 24, 2003)

Bruce said:


> good info.....
> 
> I remember during the mid-90's is was impossible to find just about any robusto, figurado, or double corona. Some of the cigars that are common and "pedestrian" today were considered very rare. Impossible to get Cohiba robustos.
> RA Coronas and 898's were selling for around $80 to $100 per stick IF you could find them.
> ...


*Great words of wisdom Bruce!*
I came in at the tail end of those years and I do remember how difficult it was getting a sought after cigar, or making sure that what you got was legit (having a dependable dealer was paramount), or checking out the dates/seals/stamps on the box, etc...
. . . And DANG!! Don't you just hate it when cubatobacoo tweeked a few classic blends and now they're just not what they used to be!
Still, I like what I'm enjoying today. I think we're very lucky.  :w


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## Matt R (Dec 12, 1997)

Bruce said:


> good info.....
> You guys nowdays don't know how well you have it!
> I used to have to call tobacconist (getting up at 4am to place an order was a pain in the a$$!) as most websites didn't exist and e-commerce was in it's infancy. I would then have to fax my order in......and half the time by the time the tobacconist got to my order, the item was sold out!


I still do all of this. You mean I can do it a different way now???


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## bonggoy (Mar 9, 2006)

Information galore in here.


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## physiognomy (Feb 6, 2007)

Thanks for bumping this thread... Some very interesting reading :ss


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## nem (Aug 2, 2006)

Bruce said:


> good info.....
> 
> I remember during the mid-90's is was impossible to find just about any robusto, figurado, or double corona. Some of the cigars that are common and "pedestrian" today were considered very rare. Impossible to get Cohiba robustos.
> RA Coronas and 898's were selling for around $80 to $100 per stick IF you could find them.
> ...


Great info, but I'll like to add one tidbit, and correct me if I'm wrong. Some pre-1985 boxes do have factory/date codes, but these codes were added by individual cigar merchants and not the Cubans.


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## Bruce (Dec 31, 1999)

Actually, some factories started stamping codes in late '84.
And you are correct......good tobacconist would place the date in writing on the bottom of the box. The date being when they received them, not factory dating.


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## lenguamor (Nov 23, 2006)

Wow! I think I gained 10 IQ points just reading this thread. Definitely time well-spent.

Bruce, you're so right; we have it exceedingly good these days, being able to reach out to the farthest reaches of the planet in our quest. It is a great age in which to be a cigar nut.

Question, does anyone know exactly when Cuba moved away from the H2000 wrappers? I can't pin that down. I know it wasn't long after they started using it, because it proved so susceptible to bugs and fungus.


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## chibnkr (May 2, 2007)

Bruce said:


> Actually, some factories started stamping codes in late '84.


I've seen this personally. I have a few boxes of vintage cigars with the code "S UE"...according to NIVEL ACUSO, this is September 1984. And, before you ask, the provenance is beyond reproach.



Bruce said:


> And you are correct......good tobacconist would place the date in writing on the bottom of the box. The date being when they received them, not factory dating.


I have also seen this on many vintage boxes...for example, I have a box of Bolivar Inmensas (pre-NIVELACUSO) that are merely stamped HECHO EN CUBA and CLARO. However, in pencil, "78" is clearly written on the bottom. So, I have always presumed that they were received by the tobacconist sometime in 1978.


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## nem (Aug 2, 2006)

lenguamor said:


> Wow! I think I gained 10 IQ points just reading this thread. Definitely time well-spent.
> 
> Bruce, you're so right; we have it exceedingly good these days, being able to reach out to the farthest reaches of the planet in our quest. It is a great age in which to be a cigar nut.
> 
> Question, does anyone know exactly when Cuba moved away from the H2000 wrappers? I can't pin that down. I know it wasn't long after they started using it, because it proved so susceptible to bugs and fungus.


I recall reading somewhere (maybe CA?) that the H2000 wrappers first emerged in late 1999. Not sure if this is 100% correct, but I'll see if I can dig up the source of this information again.


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## hollywood (Feb 15, 2005)

another great thread bump! a fine example of the wealth of information to be found here with a little search time. thank you again to the experienced members here for sharing so much knowledge!:tu


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## The Professor (Jul 20, 2006)

hollywood said:


> another great thread bump! a fine example of the wealth of information to be found here with a little search time. thank you again to the experienced members here for sharing so much knowledge!:tu


:tpd:

Preach on, brother Hollywood!


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