# What's up with Penzance?



## Royale Duke (Aug 14, 2009)

So what's the deal with Penzance? I can't find it anywhere I am dying to try some! Ever since that tin of Dorchester and the 2 Oz sample of Stonehaven that I'm working through slooooooooowwwwly I've been on a Esoterica rampage.


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## commonsenseman (Apr 18, 2008)

I think the demand is pretty high, just like with Stonehaven. I ended up buying a tin at my B&M because it's so difficult to find online.

I'm really hoping I like Tilbury since it's MUCH easier to find.


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## Mad Hatter (Apr 8, 2007)

commonsenseman said:


> I think the demand is pretty high, just like with Stonehaven. I ended up buying a tin at my B&M because it's so difficult to find online.
> 
> *I'm really hoping I like Tilbury since it's MUCH easier to find*.


Well you get no points for originality Jeff. It seems a lot of other guys have had that idea too. Actually, during my shopping spree yesterday I noticed lots and lots of stuff sold out, at least at Marscigars. Just about anything in bulk that appeals to the mainstream. Its getting where the only stuff left on the shelves are tins that rarely get mentioned on the forums and of course the expensive brands that don't have to be imported.


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## commonsenseman (Apr 18, 2008)

Mad Hatter said:


> Well you get no points for originality Jeff. It seems a lot of other guys have had that idea too. Actually, during my shopping spree yesterday I noticed lots and lots of stuff sold out, at least at Marscigars. Just about anything in bulk that appeals to the mainstream. Its getting where the only stuff left on the shelves are tins that rarely get mentioned on the forums and of course the expensive brands that don't have to be imported.


It sure seems like you're right, all of the "good stuff" seems to sell out within a day or two. Hopefully you're wrong about Tilbury though, I have 3 tins in the cellar & I haven't even tried it yet! ray:


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## Royale Duke (Aug 14, 2009)

commonsenseman said:


> It sure seems like you're right, all of the "good stuff" seems to sell out within a day or two. Hopefully you're wrong about Tilbury though, I have 3 tins in the cellar & I haven't even tried it yet! ray:


Hmm, I've heard of people substituting Stonehaven with Blackpool but I've not tried Blackpool yet as the smell scared me away from it...and there is a pretty big bag of it just sitting in the sampler drawer at Barlow's....

Hmm, I might have to sample some.

But, I'm curious if anyone would be interested in sending me a sample? Or perhaps trading a tin for something I have... The tins I'm looking to get rid of are Dorchester and a tin of SG Navy flake.

I was trying to trade them for a couple of Sav Natural pipes a fellow user was trying to get rid of but I don't think he comes here anymore...and I'm getting antsy.oke:


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## Jack Straw (Nov 20, 2008)

Penzance has been sold out for quite a while at most places I've looked. It will come around, though. Patience is the name of the game with pipes.


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## Mad Hatter (Apr 8, 2007)

commonsenseman said:


> It sure seems like you're right, all of the "good stuff" seems to sell out within a day or two. Hopefully you're wrong about Tilbury though, I have 3 tins in the cellar & I haven't even tried it yet! ray:


I've been smoking that for two or three years so I have a couple pounds in store. I bought the last pound of it from Mars yesterday. Smokingpipes is out and 4noggins is out. Its decent but it has a dark VA character I don't care much for. I've also been smoking Peacehaven. Its a nice fruity VA, light in color. Probably be good with some age.

OP - This is relevant because shortage has been going on for quite a while now and as it goes longer, more and more options are taken away by those looking for alternatives.


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## Royale Duke (Aug 14, 2009)

But why is there a Shortage of these fine blends? I just don't get it.


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## Z.Kramer (Jul 2, 2009)

I can get it any time I like at the B&Ms in Manhattan, if I want to pay $14+ for the tin.


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## Mad Hatter (Apr 8, 2007)

Royale Duke said:


> But why is there a Shortage of these fine blends? I just don't get it.


Last year people got in a panic when supplies were drying up so they snatched up quantities of blends that hadn't yet run out. Then when the fresh tobaccos hit the market they were all bought up almost immediately because of the way the panic had fed itself. A few companies were sold and there was speculation as to whether the new owners would discontinue production and that fed the panic even more. Then there was the SCHIP tax and speculation that pipe tobacco was soon to be hit with enormous taxes like RYO and prepackaged cigarettes and there was also a nationwide movement toward banning tobacco use in public areas which of course fed speculation that someone is looking to put an end to all tobacco use, sale, etc. Its just a big mess fed by too much love of drama and too much money to piss away on luxuries. Kinda like hoarding before Y2K. 'course that's just my opinion based on the facts and retailers aren't saying much either way since they stand to benefit from increased sales.

Then there are also newcomers to the pipe smoking hobby, both newbies who like the idea and converts from cigars looking to save money. Also cigarette smokers looking to break that habit due to rising prices. And then there are speculators who believe that based on the going rate of vintage tobaccos today, buying popular blends is a safe investment for the future which will guarantee a good return, kinda like what happened with comic books back in the 80s and 90s that led to.... uh...... stuff. I'll add more if I think of them.


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## Jack Straw (Nov 20, 2008)

Z.Kramer said:


> I can get it any time I like at the B&Ms in Manhattan, if I want to pay $14+ for the tin.


Which B&Ms have that kind of selection? The only one I've been to is Nat Sherman, which only sells their "house" blends.


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## Variables (Dec 2, 2009)

Props to Mr. Hatter. That is it, in a nutshell. Lots of experienced smokers stocking up on their regular blends, speculation, and panic buying by n00bs trying to build up cellars.

If there is one thing I have learned in my pipe smoking career, is patience. The blends will always turn up. There will always be something else I can smoke while I wait.


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## Diodon nepheligina (Nov 5, 2009)

Mad Hatter said:


> Last year people got in a panic when supplies were drying up so they snatched up quantities of blends that hadn't yet run out. Then when the fresh tobaccos hit the market they were all bought up almost immediately because of the way the panic had fed itself. A few companies were sold and there was speculation as to whether the new owners would discontinue production and that fed the panic even more. Then there was the SCHIP tax and speculation that pipe tobacco was soon to be hit with enormous taxes like RYO and prepackaged cigarettes and there was also a nationwide movement toward banning tobacco use in public areas which of course fed speculation that someone is looking to put an end to all tobacco use, sale, etc. Its just a big mess fed by too much love of drama and too much money to piss away on luxuries. Kinda like hoarding before Y2K. 'course that's just my opinion based on the facts and retailers aren't saying much either way since they stand to benefit from increased sales.
> 
> Then there are also newcomers to the pipe smoking hobby, both newbies who like the idea and converts from cigars looking to save money. Also cigarette smokers looking to break that habit due to rising prices. And then there are speculators who believe that based on the going rate of vintage tobaccos today, buying popular blends is a safe investment for the future which will guarantee a good return, kinda like what happened with comic books back in the 80s and 90s that led to.... uh...... stuff. I'll add more if I think of them.


Yep. The same panic buying happened with ammunition of all calibers when Obama took office. Hype and fear that his administration would go after 2nd ammendment rights led to nationwide shortages of factory loaded ammunition as well as hand loading components. This of course led to a mad spike in the hoarding/stockpiling instinct for scarce supplies and rationing of these supplies by retailers. Retailers made out quite nicely on these "luxury" items when the economy was otherwise tanking.


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## Z.Kramer (Jul 2, 2009)

Jack Straw said:


> Which B&Ms have that kind of selection? The only one I've been to is Nat Sherman, which only sells their "house" blends.


Nat Sherman is the most impressive space in my opinion, but not much selection for pipe tobacco. Both De La Concha and Barclay Rex have a much better selection. The latter is where I have seen Penzance on multiple occasions, but I was not happy with their personnel at all.


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## dmkerr (Oct 27, 2008)

Variables said:


> If there is one thing I have learned in my pipe smoking career, is patience. The blends will always turn up. There will always be something else I can smoke while I wait.


I said the same about Dunhill-era Dunhill, Drucquers, Sobranie, Sullivan Powell, John Cotton, McConnell-era Ashtons, etc. These days the OTC'ers have it even worse with the death of Edgeworth, HOW, Laurus, etc.

See, there I go feeding the panic! :evil: Truth to tell that with every classic blend that dies, a dozen more excellent blends come along that may one day become classics.


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## Davetopay (Jan 19, 2008)

dmkerr said:


> I said the same about Dunhill-era Dunhill, Drucquers, Sobranie, Sullivan Powell, John Cotton, McConnell-era Ashtons, etc. These days the OTC'ers have it even worse with the death of Edgeworth, HOW, Laurus, etc.
> 
> See, there I go feeding the panic! :evil: Truth to tell that with every classic blend that dies, a dozen more excellent blends come along that may one day become classics.


Perfect example....everything Solani.


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## BigKev77 (Feb 16, 2008)

Royale Duke said:


> Hmm, I've heard of people substituting Stonehaven with Blackpool but I've not tried Blackpool yet as the smell scared me away from it...and there is a pretty big bag of it just sitting in the sampler drawer at Barlow's....


I can't imagine Stonehaven ever being mistaked for Blackpool. Leave it in that drawer. IMHO of course.


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## Variables (Dec 2, 2009)

dmkerr said:


> I said the same about Dunhill-era Dunhill, Drucquers, Sobranie, Sullivan Powell, John Cotton, McConnell-era Ashtons, etc. These days the OTC'ers have it even worse with the death of Edgeworth, HOW, Laurus, etc.


Aye, point taken.


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## Mister Moo (Sep 8, 2005)

Mad Hatter said:


> Last year people got in a panic when supplies were drying up so they snatched up quantities of blends that hadn't yet run out. Then when the fresh tobaccos hit the market they were all bought up almost immediately because of the way the panic had fed itself...


Poppycock.










Got Royal Yacht?


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## dmkerr (Oct 27, 2008)

Davetopay said:


> Perfect example....everything Solani.


That's a great example and I'd even dig further and say that R.H Will really makes a lot of wonderful blends (or he concocted them - I think they're made by K&K now) and every blend they make is an exemplary example of its particular style... burley, vaper, aro, english. I just finished a tin of the Solani 779 and for anyone that likes a smooth English, here you go. There was no trace of harshness or edge in this stuff. It's like your first taste of 40 year old scotch after years of drinking 12 year old. Saaaa-mooooooth!


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## RJpuffs (Jan 27, 2008)

Mister Moo said:


> Poppycock.
> 
> Got Royal Yacht?


:biglaugh::rofl:


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## Mad Hatter (Apr 8, 2007)

I wish I did have some Royal Yacht but I didn't take a liking to it until late in the game. You know a great blend when there's really no substitute for it.


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## Mister Moo (Sep 8, 2005)

Mad Hatter said:


> I wish I did have some Royal Yacht but I didn't take a liking to it until late in the game. You know a great blend when there's really no substitute for it.


Say! I've discovered that a good sub for Royal Yacht is 90% Momoyama with a 10% pinch of any dark stoved virginia - close. Darn close. Hope that helps.

Gee. It's good to be back.

:evil:


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## dmkerr (Oct 27, 2008)

Mister Moo said:


> Say! I've discovered that a good sub for Royal Yacht is 90% Momoyama with a 10% pinch of any dark stoved virginia - close. Darn close. Hope that helps.
> 
> Gee. It's good to be back.
> 
> :evil:


And now... the mad search for Momoyama begins....

Hey, if you can't find Momoyama, you can blend it at home with 4 parts Sobranie 759, 2 parts Cope's (not A&CP) Escudo and 3 parts Gallahers Rich Dark Honeydew.


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## Mad Hatter (Apr 8, 2007)

Mister Moo said:


> Say! I've discovered that a good sub for Royal Yacht is 90% Momoyama with a 10% pinch of any dark stoved virginia - close. Darn close. Hope that helps.
> 
> Gee. It's good to be back.
> 
> :evil:





dmkerr said:


> And now... the mad search for Momoyama begins....
> 
> Hey, if you can't find Momoyama, you can blend it at home with 4 parts Sobranie 759, 2 parts Cope's (not A&CP) Escudo and 3 parts Gallahers Rich Dark Honeydew.


:caked:I've been here too long to fall for that, besides, I don't do blending


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## thesingingfrog (Nov 6, 2009)

oh wow, bummer. very nice blend, I'd wait around for it.


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## Mister Moo (Sep 8, 2005)

dmkerr said:


> And now... the mad search for Momoyama begins....


E**** sent me some original Momo a year or two ago; I smoked some, was underwhelmed, and packed the rest away hoping I'd like it better later. It got pulled a few weeks ago and my impression was quite different; it reminded me of soft and toned-down Royal Yacht. Momo or RY, both an acquired taste for me. This was NOT these case with Penzance which struck me dumb the first time I smoked it - love the stuff and never dared to mix it with anything.


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## dmkerr (Oct 27, 2008)

I bought a sleeve (6 pack) of Momoyama in the '90's and finished it up in the '90's. That was back in the day when we all thought tobacco blends would be around forever. I won't make that mistake again. I've now got more tobacco than I'll probably ever smoke. Hence, you and Puffs and Hatter and a few others will need to come the reading of my will to collect your bounty. 

Not too soon, I hope!


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## Mad Hatter (Apr 8, 2007)

dmkerr said:


> I bought a sleeve (6 pack) of Momoyama in the '90's and finished it up in the '90's. That was back in the day when we all thought tobacco blends would be around forever. I won't make that mistake again. I've now got more tobacco than I'll probably ever smoke. Hence, you and Puffs and Hatter and a few others will need to come the reading of my will to collect your bounty.
> 
> Not too soon, I hope!


The passing of things slowly into memory is one of life's little beauties. I've set my limit for tobacco hoarding at 5 pounds per blend and a total of no more than 80 pounds all told. If I stop replenishing my supply in the next five or six years that'll leave me with 3 pounds a year for about the next 26 years or my early 70s. I doubt I'll live that long anyway although I might outlive you in which case you can have my stash to distribute as you see fit. Just as well. I think today's hoarding while a great benefit to suppliers now, will ultimately be their downfall.


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## Zeabed (Apr 23, 2009)

Mad Hatter said:


> [...] I think today's hoarding while a great benefit to suppliers now, will ultimately be their downfall.


Very true insight and excellent market logic to boot. I have enough of even the topmost favorite blends to ensure that most of them will become a posthumous legacy. So, no reason to buy any more of them in future, particularly if prices skyrocket and/or the blends themselves become difficult to impossible to get.


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## dmkerr (Oct 27, 2008)

Mad Hatter said:


> I think today's hoarding while a great benefit to suppliers now, will ultimately be their downfall.


How so? I'm leaning towards agreement here but not sure I understand the dynamic.


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## Mad Hatter (Apr 8, 2007)

dmkerr said:


> How so? I'm leaning towards agreement here but not sure I understand the dynamic.


In my thinking there's multiple things that could happen. First what if certain companies decided to gear up their production to accommodate the surge in purchases to get a bigger slice of the pie only to have purchasing subside after a few years. They land in bankruptcy after not being able to repay their debt. Whose going to buy tobacco after smoking regulars have stored enough to last the rest of their lifetimes, especially if vintage stocks catch on and compete for those still buying, say newcomers and those who didn't stock up. What if economic times get bad and no one can afford to take up new hobbies beyond the immediately available. Basically what I'm saying is I think its a bubble just like we've seen before and I don't see newcomers to the hobby being able to sustain sales once the regulars are sitting back smoking from their stockpiles.

And worst case scenario corporate America sees all the money being made and gets involved. Hollywood makes movies promoting the glories of pipe smoking. The History Channel, The Discovery Channel, The Military Channel so on and so forth take up the banner. Pipe tobacco owns all the slots on the Nightly News and half the adds on Today Show, Anderson Cooper, Hannity and that other guy. pipe tobacco hits the New York Stock Exchange and a hundred little Bernie Made-offs push the stocks in a pyramid scheme from Kamchatka to Argentina. The market is flooded with junk tobacco stocks. The Bernies get rich and you can make $500 reselling a tin of tobacco you bought last year for $50 just so long as it doesn't all fall down while the tin is still in your cellar. And Congress is going to step in save Bernies' sorry asses but you're just ****ed....................

:kicknuts:


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## MarkC (Jul 4, 2009)

Wow...I have never_ not_ wanted pipe smoking to catch on so much in my life. 

But I agree; it's a temporary boost that could be the downfall of tobacco producers eventually, assuming the government doesn't cut their nuts off first. Except I don't see any intelligent producer increasing production capacity with the current legal climate, so I figure shortages are just part of the game.


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## BrSpiritus (Apr 9, 2009)

I have 8 tins cellared right now and plan to get some more. I dogged this stuff on my first review on tobaccoreviews.com... I don't know how I could have been so stupid, after some aging this stuff is the best and has quickly supplanted SG Squadron Leader in my rotation.


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## Mad Hatter (Apr 8, 2007)

MarkC said:


> Wow...I have never_ not_ wanted pipe smoking to catch on so much in my life.
> 
> But I agree; it's a temporary boost that could be the downfall of tobacco producers eventually, assuming the government doesn't cut their nuts off first. Except I don't see any intelligent producer increasing production capacity with the current legal climate, so I figure shortages are just part of the game.


Hell Mark, I was just having some fun :twitch:


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## dmkerr (Oct 27, 2008)

Mad Hatter said:


> And worst case scenario corporate America sees all the money being made and gets involved. Hollywood makes movies promoting the glories of pipe smoking. The History Channel, The Discovery Channel, The Military Channel so on and so forth take up the banner. Pipe tobacco owns all the slots on the Nightly News and half the adds on Today Show, Anderson Cooper, Hannity and that other guy. pipe tobacco hits the New York Stock Exchange and a hundred little Bernie Made-offs push the stocks in a pyramid scheme from Kamchatka to Argentina. The market is flooded with junk tobacco stocks. The Bernies get rich and you can make $500 reselling a tin of tobacco you bought last year for $50 just so long as it doesn't all fall down while the tin is still in your cellar. And Congress is going to step in save Bernies' sorry asses but you're just ****ed....................


LOL! Hey, you're right! There's no counterfeiting without true coin and there will also be street vendors selling 1792 that's actually made in China for $4 a tin. It'll be the total downfall of the free enterprise system in this country! We'll just need to suffer the shortages, from sea to shining sea.


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## Mad Hatter (Apr 8, 2007)

dmkerr said:


> LOL! Hey, you're right! There's no counterfeiting without true coin and there will also be street vendors selling 1792 that's actually made in China for $4 a tin. It'll be the total downfall of the free enterprise system in this country! We'll just need to suffer the shortages, from sea to shining sea.


Funny you should mention China. Am I the only one who thinks of *The Island of Misfit Toys *so often when I buy something Made in China? Y'know, rakes that fall apart when you try to use them in the yard, shovels that bend, watches that don't stay wound, etc, etc, etc.

Sorry for the off topic but I've been thinking that for a long time now.


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## Mad Hatter (Apr 8, 2007)

I was wondering if Germain's Special Latakia Flake is anywhere in the neighborhood of Penzance. They had it in the B&M when my dickhead self went back to buy up their stock of Penzance.


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## commonsenseman (Apr 18, 2008)

Mad Hatter said:


> I was wondering if Germain's Special Latakia Flake is anywhere in the neighborhood of Penzance. They had it in the B&M when my dickhead self went back to buy up their stock of Penzance.


I'm interested to know as well, it seems to be pretty readily available & after all it's blended by the same people.


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