# Question about 4noggins Stonehaven



## Mitch (Oct 2, 2009)

I was just on there web site, and they are selling 2 oz samples of Stonehaven for 9.29, and 8 oz for 54.95. Am I missing something here. I thought Stonehaven use to be 34.95 for 8 oz. At this price it is also cheaper to buy Stonehaven at the 2 oz price.


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## johnmoss (Jun 18, 2010)

I found some locally over the weekend for $38 for an 8oz bag. I'm smoking my first bowl right now. I now understand why everyone seems to be looking for it and loves it. I see 4noggins has the 8oz bad in the "Discontinued" section. It's not really discontinued is it???


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## plexiprs (Nov 18, 2005)

Capitalism ...... or is it something _else_ ??


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## Jack Straw (Nov 20, 2008)

Normal retail is indeed under $30 at most retailers. Mars Cigars charges only $22.95. From what we have heard here in the past, 4noggins sells it at the jacked up price on consignment for commission so that their customers can gouge the rest of the pipe smoking community when it is out of stock elsewhere.


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## MarkC (Jul 4, 2009)

The Stonehaven in 4Noggins' 'discontinued blend' section, like the rest of the stuff in this section, is being sold in a secondary manner, ie., it was purchased by a customer who now wishes to sell and make a buck of his fellow BOTLs. Personally, I think this is a mistake on the part of 4Noggins, but they're certainly free to do so.


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## 4noggins (May 9, 2009)

Gentlemen,

When I had Stonehaven, about a month ago, I charged $26.19 per bag. I had over 100 bags and sold out in 24 hours. I don't think that is price gauging.

The bags I sell now are at a customers request, just as are the other tins in the "Discontinued Section". The customer sets his price. I get a commission. It's that simple. If someone thinks the price is too high, they don't buy it. I personally don't see that as price gouging. No one is forcing anyone to buy it.
As a side note, I am selling about 2 bags a day to those that feel it is still worth it. After all, Rattray's bulk is over $70.00 per pound and I can barely keep that in stock. Not much difference, eh??

I don't understand why some of you hold this against me. This is how I make my living, and in a free market one has a choice to either buy a product or pass on it if they believe the price is too high. 

The products I sell on my website are by and large in line or less expensive than many of the other e-tailers, so you can plainly see I am not into price gouging.

Thanks for your understanding in this matter,

Rich
4noggins.com


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## MarkC (Jul 4, 2009)

4noggins said:


> I don't understand why some of you hold this against me.


Really? I don't hold it against you at all, but I understand the reaction of people who do. People who hoard and exploit a shortage are rarely held up as model citizens to admire, and some of that resentment is bound to rub off on the agent. I have to wonder if that resentment is losing orders for you. That's why if it was me, I'd pass on selling stuff for others that was just out of stock rather than actually no longer produced. Then again, it's not my business, and not my call. Either way, I think you do a great job and will continue to order from you!


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## Mitch (Oct 2, 2009)

Hey Bro, I don't hold this against you. Nobody has ever made any money doing things for free. I think honestly, your crazy for selling it that cheap if there is that much of a demand too (I know I will get flamed for this, but you got to make money too). When I come across things that I can make money off, I go for it. And we all work jobs here, and all expect to get paid.

Reason why I wrote what I did, was because I thought it might have been a genuine mistake. I didn't understand why the 2 oz were 9.27 and 8 oz were 55. It just didn't add up.



4noggins said:


> Gentlemen,
> 
> When I had Stonehaven, about a month ago, I charged $26.19 per bag. I had over 100 bags and sold out in 24 hours. I don't think that is price gauging.
> 
> ...


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## Mitch (Oct 2, 2009)

But those people need to remember this is there job, how they make a living. I know 4noggins is a generous company and take care of there clients. If I want something cheap, I go to walmart, if I want something of good business I buy from people.



MarkC said:


> Really? I don't hold it against you at all, but I understand the reaction of people who do. People who hoard and exploit a shortage are rarely held up as model citizens to admire, and some of that resentment is bound to rub off on the agent. I have to wonder if that resentment is losing orders for you. That's why if it was me, I'd pass on selling stuff for others that was just out of stock rather than actually no longer produced. Then again, it's not my business, and not my call. Either way, I think you do a great job and will continue to order from you!


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## keenween (Jun 25, 2007)

MarkC said:


> Really? I don't hold it against you at all, but I understand the reaction of people who do. People who hoard and exploit a shortage are rarely held up as model citizens to admire, and some of that resentment is bound to rub off on the agent. I have to wonder if that resentment is losing orders for you. That's why if it was me, I'd pass on selling stuff for others that was just out of stock rather than actually no longer produced. Then again, it's not my business, and not my call. Either way, I think you do a great job and will continue to order from you!


+1

Also, if you had over a hundred bags, and now you are reselling two bags a day...the math says it doesn't take long before a notable percentage of the original bags sold are being purchased just for profitable resale. Since you are the agent of resale and have a commission, it would seem you have motivation to allow or encourage this. And for unfamiliar customers, this might seem shady.

I also don't understand why there isn't just a price markup to begin with since the demand is present.

But as MarkC so elegantly stated, not my business, not my call. I have the freedom to not purchase the product at resale price, but there is diminished opportunity to purchase at retail price which would be the pisser if I was interested in purchasing Stonehaven.

I don't have a dog in this fight so I don't know if I care one way or another, but I for these reasons I can understand where potential shoppers might dislike the practice.


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## Coffee-Cup (Jan 26, 2010)

4noggins said:


> Gentlemen,
> 
> When I had Stonehaven, about a month ago, I charged $26.19 per bag. I had over 100 bags and sold out in 24 hours. I don't think that is price gauging.
> 
> ...


I recently lucked out and was able to purchase an 8 ounce bag of Stonehaven from Mars Cigars and Pipes, but I am glad to see exactly what 4 Noggins mind think is on their products. I suppose you will do the same thing when SG FVF comes in. You are correct that people do not have to purchase from you and I for one will be one of those people. I personally do not see any difference between you and a ticket scalper. :nono:


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## MarkC (Jul 4, 2009)

Coffee-Cup said:


> ...from Mars Cigars and Pipes, but I am glad to see exactly what 4 Noggins mind think is on their products.


Except that it's not their products, the product in question is owned by other individuals. Rich is merely providing the marketplace for both the owner and the buyer.

Personally, I think you'd have to be a bit crazy to pay double for Stonehaven rather than just being patient, but apparently some think it's worth it. It's their money, so what the heck. My disdain is saved for the individuals who are buying the stuff in the first place with no intention of ever smoking it.


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## Variables (Dec 2, 2009)

MarkC said:


> My disdain is saved for the individuals who are buying the stuff in the first place with no intention of ever smoking it.


This. Leave Rich alone. Selling tobak (or anyhting else for that matter) under a consignment agreement is nothing new. I take it none of you have been to pipe shows lately? The sale price for Stonehaven and Penzance is through the roof. Rich, make the red font letters bigger so the non-readers won't skim through the text. It would also help if you change the menu item from 'Discontinued blends' to 'Consignment Tins.'


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## CWL (Mar 25, 2010)

I do recall that another online baccy site offered discontinued tins of Dunhill recently for $20/tin. It would seem that the other dealer counseled the tobacco owner to price his tins more moderately. This would be my only hope for someone dealing with consigned goods.


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## 4noggins (May 9, 2009)

Coffee-Cup said:


> I recently lucked out and was able to purchase an 8 ounce bag of Stonehaven from Mars Cigars and Pipes, but I am glad to see exactly what 4 Noggins mind think is on their products. I suppose you will do the same thing when SG FVF comes in. You are correct that people do not have to purchase from you and I for one will be one of those people. I personally do not see any difference between you and a ticket scalper. :nono:


Moe,

Read my post. When I receive product I sell it at or below what everyone else sells it for. THESE ARE NOT MY PRODUCTS IN THE DISCONTINUED SECTION.
I am selling them for customers and they set the price. Why is this so hard for you to understand!!!!!!!!!

Rich
4noggins.com


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## 4noggins (May 9, 2009)

Variables said:


> This. Leave Rich alone. Selling tobak (or anyhting else for that matter) under a consignment agreement is nothing new. I take it none of you have been to pipe shows lately? The sale price for Stonehaven and Penzance is through the roof. Rich, make the red font letters bigger so the non-readers won't skim through the text. It would also help if you change the menu item from 'Discontinued blends' to 'Consignment Tins.'


Great idea!! Will do that this evening.

Thanks for being one of the few that understands.

Rich


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## smelvis (Sep 7, 2009)

Sorry I apreciate you explaining but gouging is gouging if you allow this on your site I simply won't buy from you. Like you said it's our choice.

The person gouging other smokers is taking advantage of other smokers and you are helping him.

Yes I do buy tabacco for the troops so I do have an opinion on this.


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## Mister Moo (Sep 8, 2005)

4noggins said:


> Great idea!! Will do that this evening.
> 
> Thanks for being one of the few that understands.
> 
> Rich


I understand three things:

1. I agree the $54 Stonehaven _*looked*_ like crazy price because I didn't recognize it as a consignment sale; and

2. processing consignment sales seems like a very reasonable business decision to me; and

3. Richard/4Noggins has always an honest, reasonable and prompt retailer who'll bother to communicate courteously with us.

Anyone who has read this far oughta give 4noggins a rep bump for bothering to pop in here and explain clearly what's what. Thx Richard.


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## Variables (Dec 2, 2009)

smelvis said:


> Sorry I apreciate you explaining but gouging is gouging if you allow this on your site I simply won't buy from you. Like you said it's our choice.


It is absolutely your choice, nut consider this:

Do not purchase tobak from the *CONSIGNMENT* section. Rich's prices are more than reasonable in the regular section. If I go to a guitar shop and I see a POS guitar selling for Fender/Gibson prices, for example, and the dealer is selling the guitar on consignment, I do not blame the guitar dealer. I simply ask him to get in touch with the seller and make an offer. This is how consignment works. Consignment sales are a normal part of some businesses, (pipe business included) and the prices should not be a reflection on the business owner's integrity, as the actual owner of the goods plays a large part on how much the item is consigned for.

BTW, I have NEVER ordered from Rich before, although I am very familiar with his site. And Smelvis, as a Navy veteran, I appreciate what you do for the troops. A good smoke was the highlight of many a shitty day while being haze gray and underway. Thanks you.


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## smelvis (Sep 7, 2009)

Variables said:


> It is absolutely your choice, nut consider this:
> 
> Do not purchase tobak from the *CONSIGNMENT* section. Rich's prices are more than reasonable in the regular section. If I go to a guitar shop and I see a POS guitar selling for Fender/Gibson prices, for example, and the dealer is selling the guitar on consignment, I do not blame the guitar dealer. I simply ask him to get in touch with the seller and make an offer. This is how consignment works.
> 
> BTW, I have NEVER ordered from Rich before, although I am very familiar with his site.


Sorry I simply don't condone gouging and won't shop anywhere that it happens. I'm sure my little business won't hurt him and I understand you all respect him and he must be a stand up guy for you to back him up.

But allowing it to happen in my opinion is a bad discision but it is his to make. As is my choice to not condone gouging in any way.

Sorry I dislike having a different opinion but I do. I do appreciate the explanation but it doesn't change anything for me.


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## Mister Moo (Sep 8, 2005)

smelvis said:


> Sorry I simply don't condone gouging and won't shop anywhere that it happens.


I'm with you!

And charity begins at home. Who do you know with a few boxes of Fuente Sharks for MSRP (like, $9.00 and change) or less; or, if you have 'em, would you please sell me three or four fivers?


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## Mitch (Oct 2, 2009)

Hey, I started this Thread with a honest question. I did not mean for this to start a discussion whether 4noggins is price gouging. I personally will always buy from 4noggins. He is a great guy, and takes care of clients. He would probably have to close shop if he wasn't diverse and tried to make money in other ways. Guys, we can't think just because something is a hobby for us, nobody should try to make money off it. 

Mitch


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## smelvis (Sep 7, 2009)

Mister Moo said:


> I'm with you!
> 
> And charity begins at home. Who do you know with a few boxes of Fuente Sharks for MSRP (like, $9.00 and change) or less; or, if you have 'em, would you please sell me three or four fivers?


I don't sell cigars, but I do pay MSRP for my sharks or very close to it. And yes I do have a box or more. If I sold them they would be for what I paid though.

As OP said doesn't want this discussion so I will stop posting about it, BTW speaking of charity what do you give away?

Feel free to answer in pm.


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## GuitarDan (Nov 26, 2009)

So let me get this straight...

4Noggins sells out his brand new supply of Stonehaven at the regular retail price.

Folks who missed out on the last batch are kvetching because they can't obtain something they really like.

Months later, new batches of Stonehaven are still not available

More yearning/griping ensues.

Retail customers who want green cash more than grey Stonehaven ashes put the stuff up for sale via consignment at 4Noggins.

Stonehaven is still not available via retail, but now able to be gotten via consignment at a higher price that when 4 Noggins owned the stuff as store stock.

Somehow this equals 4Noggins being a profiteering bastard and needs to be boycotted until he no longer accepts Stonehaven or Penzance or Unobtainium Flake on consignment?

Wha?

You people are real sour grapes bastards. 
To quote Carnak the Great, "May the fleas of a thousand camels nest in your groin..."


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## Mister Moo (Sep 8, 2005)

Mitch said:


> Hey... I did not mean for this to start a discussion whether 4noggins is price gouging.


The toothpaste is out of the tube but it ain't all bad. For those who stand on strong principle about good vs. evil retailing I propose this: should any seller, auctioner or consignment seller offer the last truckload of pre-1991 Balkan Sobranie for a penny over 1977 MSRP, then say something bad about them and definitely do not buy the stuff. More for me.


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## Mitch (Oct 2, 2009)

GuitarDan said:


> So let me get this straight...
> 
> 4Noggins sells out his brand new supply of Stonehaven at the regular retail price.
> 
> ...


lol


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## smelvis (Sep 7, 2009)

Mister Moo said:


> The toothpaste is out of the tube but it ain't all bad. For those who stand on strong principle about good vs. evil retailing I propose this: should any seller, auctioner or consignment seller offer the last truckload of pre-1991 Balkan Sobranie for a penny over 1977 MSRP, then say something bad about them and definitely do not buy the stuff. More for me.


At least be real jeez, a product being made now versus a exotic collectables no comparison, Beat up on me all you want, But use fair comparisons. Damn some of you are snobby!


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## commonsenseman (Apr 18, 2008)

opcorn:


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## Mitch (Oct 2, 2009)

smelvis said:


> At least be real jeez, a product being made now versus a exotic collectables no comparison, Beat up on me all you want, But use fair comparisons. Damn some of you are snobby!


To be honest, Stonehaven is so different. This is hard to get. I personally can't buy it and want to, but by no means would I take this out on those who are buying it and reselling it for more money. This isn't like buying a tin of MacBaren Vanilla. This is a product that everyone is sold out on within a day.


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## laloin (Jun 29, 2010)

hmmmm some are upset that 4noggins is somehow price gouging the buyer because he has stoneheaven for sale for consignment. that not gouging, that another form of business practice, Rich isn't setting the price the seller is, before everyone hit the panice button bout the price.
call him, email him, and ask if the seller wants to go less or BO how hard is that to do?!
I've been trying to weeks to get Macbarons navy flake, my B&M doesn't have, most of the online venders doesn't have, and Rich is the only one to bother to tell me when he might have it in.
Everyone else tough cookies, buy something else.
heh Rich get my business 
troy


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## Mister Moo (Sep 8, 2005)

smelvis said:


> Damn some of you...


I thought we took this to pm at your request? :hug:


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## CWL (Mar 25, 2010)

WOW! So this is what a Flame War looks like on Puff! 

It looks so different when everybody knows how to spell basic words!


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## Siv (Jul 26, 2010)

The one thing this thread has made me want to do it try some Esoterica baccy! I think Stonehaven is not really in my prefered flavour profile but Penzance sounds interesting...

Edit: I must be a monkey - turns out I ordered a tin of Penzance a year and a half ago... I guess I now have to go find it and smoke this mythical stuff.


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## plexiprs (Nov 18, 2005)

_Price gouging is a pejorative term referring to a situation in which a seller prices goods or commodities much higher than is considered reasonable or fair. In precise, legal usage, it is the name of a crime that applies in some of the United States during civil emergencies. In less precise usage, it can refer either to prices obtained by practices inconsistent with a competitive free market, or to windfall profits. In Soviet Union it was simply included under single definition of speculation.
The term is similar to profiteering but can be distinguished by being short-term and localized, and by a restriction to essentials such as food, clothing, shelter, medicine and equipment needed to preserve life, limb and property. In jurisdictions where there is no such crime, the term may still be used to pressure firms to refrain from such behavior.
The term is not in widespread use in mainstream economic theory, but is sometimes used to refer to practices of a coercive monopoly which raises prices above the market rate that would otherwise prevail in a competitive environment._

Get that good for nothing Puff Mayor on the phone and have him declare a Civil Emergency!! Then, bring us some sturdy rope ......


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## plexiprs (Nov 18, 2005)

CWL said:


> WOW! So this is what a Flame War looks like on Puff!
> 
> It looks so different when everybody knows how to spell basic words!


Makes one wonder what their native language actually _is_, no?


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## Coffee-Cup (Jan 26, 2010)

4noggins said:


> Moe,
> 
> Read my post. When I receive product I sell it at or below what everyone else sells it for. THESE ARE NOT MY PRODUCTS IN THE DISCONTINUED SECTION.
> I am selling them for customers and they set the price. Why is this so hard for you to understand!!!!!!!!!
> ...


Rich! I feel that the 4 Noggins website which sells a variety of other products allow Gouging (consignment) sales that sullies its appeal for purchasing any of their products. Those people who are able to obtain a large supply of "hard to obtain" tobacco can sell them on EBAY instead. From my perspective 4 Noggins by allowing their site to be used by "Gougers" are just as responsibe as the "Gougers" themselves.:frown:

In conclusion to my point, thousands of "Pipers" read the posts on this forum and I am sure that they will make up their own minds as to the value of 4 Noggins;:noidea: I for one will not be using 4 Noggins; they allow "gougers" to use their site.:nono: I know that I am a pebble in the pond, but what happens if the pebbles continue to be deposited in that same pond; who knows maybe a mountain of pebbles in the pond.:ranger:


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## Mitch (Oct 2, 2009)

Coffee-Cup said:


> Rich! I feel that the 4 Noggins website which sells a variety of other products allow Gouging (consignment) sales that sullies its appeal for purchasing any of their products. Those people who are able to obtain a large supply of "hard to obtain" tobacco can sell them on EBAY instead. From my perspective 4 Noggins by allowing their site to be used by "Gougers" are just as responsibe as the "Gougers" themselves.:frown:
> 
> In conclusion to my point, thousands of "Pipers" read the posts on this forum and I am sure that they will make up their own minds as to the value of 4 Noggins;:noidea: I for one will not be using 4 Noggins; they allow "gougers" to use their site.:nono: I know that I am a pebble in the pond, but what happens if the pebbles continue to be deposited in that same pond; who knows maybe a mountain of pebbles in the pond.:ranger:


So question for you. You ever buy anything and make money off it? What about those of us who make a living in the sales business. Are we considered gougers because we sell things for more than what we pay for it. I personally encourage people making a living and doing well for themselves.


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## Coffee-Cup (Jan 26, 2010)

Mitch said:


> So question for you. You ever buy anything and make money off it? What about those of us who make a living in the sales business. Are we considered gougers because we sell things for more than what we pay for it. I personally encourage people making a living and doing well for themselves.


Mitch! Let me put this question to you. Let's just for argument sake say that all of the vendors and B&M's decided to sell all of their 100 bags of (your favorite hard to get tobaccos) to their son or daughter and allow them to put it up for sale on "consignment"; would you be as understanding on this issue? Now you should note that I am not saying that Rich would or is doing this but the effect of this behavior expanded is called "Cornering the Market"

From my perspective I don't want to reward this behavior so when I purchase pipes, other tobaccos etc.. (which are not in short supply) I would avoid 4 Noggins types; while I still have a choice.:ranger:


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## Mitch (Oct 2, 2009)

Coffee-Cup said:


> Mitch! Let me put this question to you. Let's just for argument sake say that all of the vendors and B&M's decided to sell all of their 100 bags of (your favorite hard to get tobaccos) to their son or daughter and allow them to put it up for sale on "consignment"; would you be as understanding on this issue? Now you should note that I am not saying that Rich would or is doing this but the effect of this behavior expanded is called "Cornering the Market"
> 
> From my perspective I don't want to reward this behavior so when I purchase pipes, other tobaccos etc.. (which are not in short supply) I would avoid 4 Noggins types; while I still have a choice.:ranger:


Ok, well right now your assuming he is doing something like this. Keep in mind, I am in the same boat along with you. I love this tobaccy and can't get any. If Rich is doing what you example was, I would totally agree with you and would not buy from him anymore. But if he is just selling this stuff honestly, then people come back and want him to sell things for them, hey why not in my opinion. That is just plain smart business and trying to be diverse to keep a business going.

I guess the way I look at it is, I buy and sell sports cards. I will be damned if I don't try to make money when I sell this stuff, or why bother with it (Even if the player is the guys favorite player, and he just can't seem to find him anywhere), I will still try to make money off it (Unless it's a child, well then I just give it to him :shocked:. I look at tobacco the same way, this isn't a need (Well I guess for some it is) it's just a hobby.


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## Mitch (Oct 2, 2009)

I just thought about this a little more. If I were Rich I would just raise the price to like $40. This way there isn't much profit for those who want to buy and sell it, and then he probably wouldn't sell out so fast. Retail for a bag of this in a b&m in KC was $39.99. This way he would probably mostly sell to those who want to smoke it. So what do you think of those apples.


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## indigosmoke (Sep 1, 2009)

What is it about 4noggins that seems to create this kind of argument? I think I remember a similar thread about pre-orders of SG products degenerating into a similar discussion.

At least Rich is providing a place where people can sell their tobacco as tobacco and not their "collectible plastic bag" packaging like on Ebay. 

BTW - I could care less what 4noggins sells or for how much or for who as long as everything is clearly labeled (it probably would be a good idea to change the listings from Discontinued to Consignment). 

What I find interesting is that we're even having this discussion. I love the fact that we have all become so used to being a part of a community here on Puff where everyone is generous and kind and loves to share and help out a brother rather than make a profit that it offends some of us when we see others simply using pipe tobacco as a profit making venture. Probably why I like to hang out on Puff. A world full of friendly, kind, generous people who share a common interest. Dare I say it...a real sense of "community." Kind of nice. I wish it was more like this in the real (not cyber) world.

I get enough of the real world in the real world. Since everyone now knows who is selling what for who and why I think this thread has served its purpose. Everyone can make their own judgement on who to order from. I say we drop all this and let those who like to order from 4noggins order from 4noggins and those who don't not. Then I can get back to my Puff world and forget about the real one again for a while. Just my 2 cents worth.


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## Jack Straw (Nov 20, 2008)

^ Mitch, then he'd catch even more flak than he does over this! 

As you can tell from the tone of my earlier post, I'm one of the people that this bothers on some level. It's not that I think Rich is some sort of crook, nothing close to it. All I'm saying is, there are a ton of retailers out there. If one place leaves a funny taste in my mouth for whatever reason (and this isn't the only one), I as the consumer have the right to take my money elsewhere. We all have our favorite sites, and I know Rich has a very loyal following of customers just as the other sites do.


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## Jack Straw (Nov 20, 2008)

indigosmoke said:


> At least Rich is providing a place where people can sell their tobacco as tobacco and not their "collectible plastic bag" packaging like on Ebay.


He actually used to sell these on Ebay, but I think ebay put a stop to it as it's pretty hard to say that a plastic/foil/whateveritis bag of stonehaven is a collectible package.


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## indigosmoke (Sep 1, 2009)

Jack Straw said:


> He actually used to sell these on Ebay, but I think ebay put a stop to it as it's pretty hard to say that a plastic/foil/whateveritis bag of stonehaven is a collectible package.


It's about time. Not that I care one wit whether Ebay allows tobacco sales, but to have such an obviously phony policy they never enforce irritated me for some reason. Go figure.


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## Commander Quan (May 6, 2003)

Some people need to go back and reread their 11th grade Microeconomics textbooks, this is supply and demand in it's purest form. I seriously do not understand what the issue is here. Charging a premium for a impossible to find luxury item is not price gouging. It's Capitalism 101. Price gouging is raising the price to 5x what it would normally be on gas and water after Katrina. (and even then you could still argue it's supply vs. demand) 

indigosmoke brings up an interesting point, being part of a community like this can make us a little jaded we see people buying and selling or giving away goods at or below their cost all the time, and expect others with our interests to do the same, but unfortunately this type of Utopian economic system does not exist outside of our little bubble.


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## Griz (May 10, 2009)

It's interesting to note the locations of the yea's vs the nay's. Almost political, divided along lines of those "who have" and those "who do not yet think everyone should so we'll divide it up amongst everyone."oke:

I just wanted to play, too. : )


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## Senator (Feb 8, 2008)

I've waded into this same discussion in the past. I'll keep it civil. ;-)

I think what irks people the wrong way is the thought that a 4noggins customer could buy up a lot of stock and then turn around and use 4noggins to re-sell the items. I'm not sure if 4noggins has a policy limiting the amount of tobacco that can be purchased...however, the only way I could possibly be a tiny bit ok with this practice would be if 4noggins refused to re-sell tobaccos purchased through them in the first place.


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## Coffee-Cup (Jan 26, 2010)

I know that most members here are tired of this topic and I have said just about all that I had planned to say, but I was thinking of Mitch being in sales and feeling that it is anti-business. I then began to think about the logistics of 4 Noggins Consignment section.:hmm: 

Let's just say that I called Rich and told him that I have 10 bags of Stonehaven that I wanted to put up for consignment. If Rich accepted this offer I would either have to send the tobacco to 4 Noggins or keep the product and send it out to whoever purchases it on 4 Noggins. Either way this would cause gigantic liability issues for Rich; he would not have a paper trail of the product. 

So it seems logical that the only safe method for Rich to sell 100 bags of Stonehaven is for it to never to leave his premises; thereby he could guarantee the safety of the product. It also seems logical that if Rich had put the Stonehaven up for normal sale there would be people buying it for smoking purposes; I can't see 30 or more people buying the product and asking Rich to put it up for consignment.opcorn: 

So it appears to me that Rich sold all of his Stonehaven to maybe a few people who put it up for consignment.:shocked: 

Rich! If I am wrong please enlighten me; "inquiring minds like to know".:ranger:


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## Commander Quan (May 6, 2003)

What would make you assume that there are more than a single bag of tobacco for sale?


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## RJpuffs (Jan 27, 2008)

Coffee-Cup said:


> ...
> So it appears to me that Rich sold all of his Stonehaven to maybe a few people who put it up for consignment.:shocked:
> 
> Rich! If I am wrong please enlighten me; "inquiring minds like to know".


I think this topic has wandered too far into the woods - but I'm one of the guys who buys from Rich "by the truckload", when I can. With Stonehaven comes into stock, he has only allowed me 2 per order. I grumbled, I moaned, but I see the fairness of it ... and it sold out in hours or less, two at a time. As for whoever wants to consign it for resale - power to them, if I can get $99 for a $25 pouch of baccy, hell, there's one born every minute, I'll smoke 8oz less of one blend for that profit margin.


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## Jack Straw (Nov 20, 2008)

Commander Quan said:


> What would make you assume that there are more than a single bag of tobacco for sale?


Well, since they've sold many many bags on ebay of penzance and stonehaven for quite a while until they shifted consignment sales to the 4noggins site, it would seem that whatever customer or customers are doing this are making a business of this.


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## Variables (Dec 2, 2009)

Jack Straw said:


> Well, since they've sold many many bags on ebay of penzance and stonehaven for quite a while until they shifted consignment sales to the 4noggins site, it would seem that whatever customer or customers are doing this are making a business of this.


How many? I only recal' 6-7. Pipestud sells them on his site too (along with many other hard to find tins.) Is he a price gouger too for dealing with consignment sales almost exclusively on his site?

This is nothing new in the pipe world. Why is it such an issue now? And why so much with 4noggins? :dunno:


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## MarkC (Jul 4, 2009)

Coffee-Cup said:


> I know that most members here are tired of this topic and I have said just about all that I had planned to say, but I was thinking of Mitch being in sales and feeling that it is anti-business. I then began to think about the logistics of 4 Noggins Consignment section.:hmm:
> 
> Let's just say that I called Rich and told him that I have 10 bags of Stonehaven that I wanted to put up for consignment. If Rich accepted this offer I would either have to send the tobacco to 4 Noggins or keep the product and send it out to whoever purchases it on 4 Noggins. Either way this would cause gigantic liability issues for Rich; he would not have a paper trail of the product.
> 
> ...


I think you've crossed over into 'silly assumption land' here...


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## Jack Straw (Nov 20, 2008)

Variables said:


> How many? I only recal' 6-7. Pipestud sells them on his site too (along with many other hard to find tins.) Is he a price gouger too for dealing with consignment sales almost exclusively on his site?
> 
> This is nothing new in the pipe world. Why is it such an issue now? And why so much with 4noggins? :dunno:


I'm sure it's not new, in the pipe world or anywhere else. I also said I didn't think Rich was a crook. I just don't like the practice. Just because I don't like it, doesn't make it unethical. If you like it, by all means feel free to think I'm just a cranky asshole. 

Also, pipestud's shop is slightly different. Pipestud's stuff seems to come into stock randomly. It's not that a premium is being charged for aged or hard to find tobacco that bothers me. The thing that bothers me on the stonehaven thing is that someone has been doing this over a long period of time through 4noggins, and at least based on appearances, the average person could easily assume that whoever is doing it is buying up a stock to sell when it is out of stock everywhere. If this is incorrect, I would love to be corrected, although I'm sure 4noggins has a privacy policy. I cannot find the listing of the ebay auctions, but I looked it up once when this discussion came up and it was more than 6-7, penzance and stonehaven included.


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## 4noggins (May 9, 2009)

Well, I guess it's my turn to finalize this and bring the thread to a close. I have sold my last bag this afternoon. So there is no more Stonehaven left for sale. RLPuffs is correct in that when I had Stonehaven in stock, at *$26.19 per bag*, there was a limit of 2 per customer. I did that because I didn't want one or two people buying me out by ordering huge quantities. If that happened it wouldn't be fair to all of my customers, and I wanted everyone to have a shot at a bag or two. It worked out real well although I did have some crying and asking to buy more (I hope I didn't embarrass you RJ). Some of the other large e-tailers did not have a limit on the amount one could buy and I've been told by them that some of their orders were for 25 or 30 bags at a time. So, my intuition was right and most of my customers got a shot at some Stonehaven.

The gentleman that I was selling these for happened to be a guy who hasd been stockpiling Stonehaven for the last year. He was recently told by his Doctor that he had to quit smoking, including his pipes. I received an email from the guy, explained my consignment policy, and he shipped me his stash. That is what I was selling on my website for $54.95.

No more speculation, guessing, or delusional reasons needed from the gang here as to what is going on at 4noggins. I have been in various retail businesses during my career, was on the Board of Directors of a national company, and I sold my business a few years ago for more money than many of you will ever see in a lifetime. So, please, don't preach to me about business ethics or price gouging. I have more business experience than most.

For those of you who have stood up for me, thank you, I appreciate the time you took, and your support. For those of you who have blasted me, It's your prerogative to disagree and thank goodness you have the freedom of choice to buy whatever from whomever you choose. Of course, I would rather you buy from me, but the choice is entirely yours.

In closing I would like to say that overall, you are a fine bunch of guys who share a common passion for the pipe. This is not seen too often and I'm sure the lurkers to this thread share that same passion. The civility and way you all carried yourselves is to be commended.

Cheers,

Rich
4noggins.com


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## Jack Straw (Nov 20, 2008)

Thanks for the well thought out response Rich. It is very good to know that it isn't someone buying it just to sell back to those who missed out.


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## Coffee-Cup (Jan 26, 2010)

4noggins said:


> Well, I guess it's my turn to finalize this and bring the thread to a close. I have sold my last bag this afternoon. So there is no more Stonehaven left for sale. RLPuffs is correct in that when I had Stonehaven in stock, at *$26.19 per bag*, there was a limit of 2 per customer. I did that because I didn't want one or two people buying me out by ordering huge quantities. If that happened it wouldn't be fair to all of my customers, and I wanted everyone to have a shot at a bag or two. It worked out real well although I did have some crying and asking to buy more (I hope I didn't embarrass you RJ). Some of the other large e-tailers did not have a limit on the amount one could buy and I've been told by them that some of their orders were for 25 or 30 bags at a time. So, my intuition was right and most of my customers got a shot at some Stonehaven.
> 
> The gentleman that I was selling these for happened to be a guy who hasd been stockpiling Stonehaven for the last year. He was recently told by his Doctor that he had to quit smoking, including his pipes. I received an email from the guy, explained my consignment policy, and he shipped me his stash. That is what I was selling on my website for $54.95.
> 
> ...


Rich! I just want to say thanks for clearing up your position; there are a lot of members on this forum who think highly of you.:yo:


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## plexiprs (Nov 18, 2005)

4noggins said:


> I have been in various retail businesses during my career, was on the Board of Directors of a national company, and I sold my business a few years ago _*for more money than many of you will ever see in a lifetime. So, please, don't preach to me about business ethics or price gouging. I have more business experience than most.*_


No, your preaching and glacier-sized ego speaks volumes by itself.

Regardless any previous good experiences I had with your little _hobby_ business, I won't be visiting it again after that sermon.

Wow, what a great guy you are ....... _JK_!


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## plexiprs (Nov 18, 2005)

indigosmoke said:


> What is it about 4noggins that seems to create this kind of argument?


See his highlighted quote above. Never as overt in the past, but it must have bled through to some.


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## 4noggins (May 9, 2009)

plexiprs said:


> No, your preaching and glacier-sized ego speaks volumes by itself.
> 
> Regardless any previous good experiences I had with your little _hobby_ business, I won't be visiting it again after that sermon.
> 
> Wow, what a great guy you are ....... _JK_!


Plexiprs,

While you're at it, you might want to change your profile so that your fav cigar is not Artisens Blend...........that's pipe tobacco.

Rich


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## teedles915 (Jun 18, 2009)

Well after reading this whole thing It seems clear that this is just one of those situations where good people just have an honest gentlemen's disagreement. 

I do see both sides of the situation here. 

I can't say that I personally blame 4Noggins for doing the consignment. They are after all a business and businesses have to make money to survive it is as simple as that. 

On the other side I see the point of being upset about a pipe tobacco being near double the price of msrp. 

As far as the comment about selling a business for more than most of us will ever see; I understand how this could come off as cocky, or just plain rude but I think Rich was using that to show that if is businesses wer not on the up and up there is no way he could build them to be successful. As this thread definely proves most consumers throw up an alert when they see something they believe is unethical. 

I have never ordered from 4Noggins simply because they do not take Discover which is my card of choice. So I can not speak as to the level of customer service they offer.


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## tobacmon (May 17, 2007)

I'm very new to pipe smoking and to see a product that everyone has an addiction to obtain go from "say" $20 to $40 (just a reference) would seem not a good business practice coming from the same company. That said if you want it bad enough you either pay that price or you do not--the choice is yours. Most everyone during this time in history are having to tighten their belts due to the tax changes, no raises, etc..This does not sit well with me.

I was very fortunate to obtain 8 oz. from an "outstanding BOTL" here and though I should have kept it all for me I did a trade to help another BOTL out so he would have something he was not able to obtain. I thought that is what this place was all about, maybe I missed something.

Not bashing here but putting in my 2c. I hope evryone that has yet to try this stuff will have the chance to soon.
*
Out of the 8oz I had I'm down to maybe 1oz left--What a bummer.............*


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## Mitch (Oct 2, 2009)

tobacmon said:


> I'm very new to pipe smoking and to see a product that everyone has an addiction to obtain go from "say" $20 to $40 (just a reference) would seem not a good business practice coming from the same company. That said if you want it bad enough you either pay that price or you do not--the choice is yours. Most everyone during this time in history are having to tighten their belts due to the tax changes, no raises, etc..This does not sit well with me.
> 
> *I was very fortunate to obtain 8 oz. from an "outstanding BOTL" here and though I should have kept it all for me I did a trade to help another BOTL out so he would have something he was not able to obtain. I thought that is what this place was all about, maybe I missed something.
> *
> ...


Your right, that is how this place is which is great. I don't believe that we have ever discussed whether we should help out a brother if he needs it. We have to understand that 4noggins is a business, and a business to survive needs to make money. And the fact he is limiting his supply to two bags a person does speak of his ethics. He is getting paid the same whether he sells twenty bags to one client or limits it to 2 bags a client (He just needs to deal with more shipping which I am sure gets old. Now in my book, selling high quantity is much easier then having to ship to so many different people.


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## Mister Moo (Sep 8, 2005)

The thing about this whole not-flame-but-honest-differences-of-opinion thread is, it has almost nothing to do with 4noggins and everything to do with changing world health policies, tax policy, common sense and consumer buying habits. You see, my droogies, 2x markups over MSRP isn't a problem, it's a symptom. This is not news, is it?

With Esoterica, Samuel Gawith and lots of MacBaren products sold out - and with Dunhill evaporated for two years - and Balkan Sobranie selling for $200/ounce.... wth.

At least here in the US, where tax policy (in North Carolina) hasn't quite put pipe tobacco out of reach, a guy can still find a CY2005 $12 tub of Carter Hall for about $28 at JRs - I gather the rest of you are seeing prices in the mid $30 range. A guy over in Oz just quoted a 50g pouch of Captain Black at USD31.00.

So here we are in an internet connected world where we can all learn more about the total range of tobacco available in 20-minutes than our daddies learned in 40-years. If you know what's good, and stored tobacco most doesn't rot, mostly appreciates and often improves over time... this is a no brainer. Buy the sonsabitches out as fast as you can, store it in a cool, dry place and ask yourself, rhetorically, in 2015 dollars, is $54 Stonehaven a fantastic bargain or what? This thread isn't about retail policies - it is about what we have brought upon ourselves.

Last count I had 60# in the cellar and I've been shopping carefully and working on it for years. Bunches more of you (us) are piling the stuff up as fast as possible.


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## CWL (Mar 25, 2010)

> Bunches more of you (us) are piling the stuff up as fast as possible.


That would be me, sir! While a big chunk of my cellar came about when I bought-out a local B&M's supply of years-old stock, I have to admit that I've always purchased in multiples whenever possible. I am developing my preferences for certain baccys and will be building those up more, and will finally get-around to selling the tins that I'll never get-around to smoking.

For me, the cost of pipe tobacco is so much cheaper than cigars (which I've been collecting for 20+ years). For the cost of just one box of a decent cigar, I can get 10 tins or a couple of bulk pounds of really good tobacco.


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## Coffee-Cup (Jan 26, 2010)

tobacmon said:


> I'm very new to pipe smoking and to see a product that everyone has an addiction to obtain go from "say" $20 to $40 (just a reference) would seem not a good business practice coming from the same company. That said if you want it bad enough you either pay that price or you do not--the choice is yours. Most everyone during this time in history are having to tighten their belts due to the tax changes, no raises, etc..This does not sit well with me.
> 
> I was very fortunate to obtain 8 oz. from an "outstanding BOTL" here and though I should have kept it all for me I did a trade to help another BOTL out so he would have something he was not able to obtain. I thought that is what this place was all about, maybe I missed something.
> 
> ...


Paul! You are so correct in all of your points.:nod: I really love Stonehaven and I had just missed the small open window when this tobacco was available from several vendors so I went to the pipe smokers forum and asked them to give me a heads up when they became aware of its availability. To my complete surprise I got a reply from Jeff (Commonsenseman) that he might be able to tide me over and "lo and behold" I got a package from Jeff containing Stonehaven, SG FVF (which I also really love), three beautiful tasty Indian Tabac Robusto cigars and Tambolaka.:banana:

Jeff, Shuckins, and a slew of others here on this forum are definitely "outstanding Botls) and Paul, quoting from you "maybe I missed something"; you have not missed a beat!:yo:


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## Brinson (Oct 28, 2007)

Wow...this thread is ridiculous. So much nonsense on both sides.

Yes, $54 (or whatever) is a pretty insane price for stonehaven. Yes, 4noggins must expect some of the backlash to fall on it for this, because it sells these products using its website, name, and reputation, in a very nontransparent way.

No, they are not evil. No, they are not "price gouging", at least not as its usually defined, which is pricing that impedes a free market. If 4noggins were buying up a large portions, and not selling them, waiting for shortages, and selling them at high prices only when there were shortages, that would be price gouging. Charging the market price, even when much higher than msrp, is not price gouging, because it obeys, rather than restricts, market principles.

It would be -very- easy for an e-tailer to price gouge stonehaven. They'd just have to wait 2-3 weeks after getting it to list it on their site. By the time they listed theirs, everyone else would be sold out, and they could charge a higher price.

From what I've seen, 4noggins is not doing anything like that. They aren't behaving unethically.

Personally, I'm not paying $50 for 8oz of stonehaven...but I'm not paying $26 either...considering that gets me a pound stokkebye or some McClellands blends...so that's just me, I suppose...

Irrelevent, however. The relevent point is that 4noggins is not behaving unethically. High prices does not equal price gouging. Never has, never will. Price gouging is taking advantage of situations to sell above a fair market price. If there is high demand and low supply *market forces would imply a high price*.

That said, I still don't like such high prices being listed, and it does damage credibility in my eyes, because it incentivizes people to buy up stonehaven even if they don't smoke it, or buying more than they need. It gives someone an "outlet" to sell stonehaven when its in short supply, and a savvy buyer might realize they now can easily price gouge by using 4noggins as an intermediary. It is possible that without 4noggins (though, perhaps unlikely) they wouldn't buy the stonehaven to sell later.


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## Mitch (Oct 2, 2009)

Brinson said:


> Wow...this thread is ridiculous. So much nonsense on both sides.


Thanks for setting all of us straight :rockon:


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## Brinson (Oct 28, 2007)

Mitch said:


> Thanks for setting all of us straight :rockon:


Sorry if I seem like a jerk. But...this forum has oooonnne thing I've never seen in any online setting before, and that is mutual respect amongst the members. Rude people are usually isolated and put in place...but here...gah, alot of rude behavior, people being mean, insulting, ect, ect, ect, and...its just very out of place here.

/rant


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## Blaylock-cl (Apr 28, 2006)

Brinson said:


> Sorry if I seem like a jerk. But...this forum has oooonnne thing I've never seen in any online setting before, and that is mutual respect amongst the members. Rude people are usually isolated and put in place...but here...gah, alot of rude behavior, people being mean, insulting, ect, ect, ect, and...its just very out of place here.
> 
> /rant


I've been following this thread pretty closely and to be honest I haven't seen "rude behavior, people being mean, insulting or etc". If I did, I would have dealt with it long ago!

Now I'm not going to to back and read all the posts again, but IMO, the thread is not "nonsense" nor is it "ridiculous. Just differing opinions...that are welcomed here.


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## GuitarDan (Nov 26, 2009)

I think the real solution is for the original retailers to mark-up Stonehaven, Penzance, and Full Virginia Flake to $180 per pound so as to do away with all those nasty consignments. 
This way the supplies would last longer and everyone could have a chance at them all the time! No more unfair secondary money-making!

There you go, problem solved! :boohoo:


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## Mitch (Oct 2, 2009)

I am not being disrespectful to someone if I don't agree with them. I can disagree with someone and still be friends with them. This is a way of life, not everybody will always see eye to eye on things, but that doesn't mean they can't get a long. I personally feel differently then a lot of people on this topic, but that doesn't mean if I heard they were looking for a tobacco I had, I wouldn't hook it up. This is the way life is.



Brinson said:


> Sorry if I seem like a jerk. But...this forum has oooonnne thing I've never seen in any online setting before, and that is mutual respect amongst the members. Rude people are usually isolated and put in place...but here...gah, alot of rude behavior, people being mean, insulting, ect, ect, ect, and...its just very out of place here.
> 
> /rant


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## smelvis (Sep 7, 2009)

I saw a few snide remarks nothing over the top, That is why I stopped posting but I admittidly have a thin skin so I avoid disagreements. I still think most words including gouging have many meanings and I still will not buy from him again, especially knowing he has more money than I will ever make LOL

op2: :focus: So I now know when I bombed a guy two 8 oz bags of this stuff and a new pipe he really really liked it


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## Habanolover (Feb 22, 2006)

smelvis said:


> op2: :focus: So I now know when I bombed a guy two 8 oz bags of this stuff and a new pipe he really really liked it


Yes I did Dave!


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## smelvis (Sep 7, 2009)

Habanolover said:


> Yes I did Dave!


\
I guessed good HUH LOL


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## Habanolover (Feb 22, 2006)

smelvis said:


> \
> I guessed good HUH LOL


I have that pipe dedicated to Stonehaven. I have never smoked anything else out of it.


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## smelvis (Sep 7, 2009)

Habanolover said:


> I have that pipe dedicated to Stonehaven. I have never smoked anything else out of it.


Very cool


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## tobacmon (May 17, 2007)

Mitch said:


> Your right, that is how this place is which is great. I don't believe that we have ever discussed whether we should help out a brother if he needs it. We have to understand that 4noggins is a business, and a business to survive needs to make money. And the fact he is limiting his supply to two bags a person does speak of his ethics. He is getting paid the same whether he sells twenty bags to one client or limits it to 2 bags a client (He just needs to deal with more shipping which I am sure gets old. Now in my book, selling high quantity is much easier then having to ship to so many different people.


Thanks for the comment brother--- When I started on the NPS thread I was checking out everything and anything to see what I would enjoy whenever I could not take the time for a cigar. There are many here that helped me along the slippery slope and that is why I help when I can. Still not tried many list tobac's but will some day if the Good Lord permits.



Coffee-Cup said:


> Paul! You are so correct in all of your points.:nod: I really love Stonehaven and I had just missed the small open window when this tobacco was available from several vendors so I went to the pipe smokers forum and asked them to give me a heads up when they became aware of its availability. To my complete surprise I got a reply from Jeff (Commonsenseman) that he might be able to tide me over and "lo and behold" I got a package from Jeff containing Stonehaven, SG FVF (which I also really love), three beautiful tasty Indian Tabac Robusto cigars and Tambolaka.:banana:
> 
> Jeff, Shuckins, and a slew of others here on this forum are definitely "outstanding Botls) and Paul, quoting from you "maybe I missed something"; you have not missed a beat!:yo:


A great bunch of BOTL listed and you are so true in your comments about them all....Well respected!


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## tobacmon (May 17, 2007)

If anyone see this come up at a lower price PM me PLEASE!

Sorry for the Bump!


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## Senator (Feb 8, 2008)

GuitarDan said:


> I think the real solution is for the original retailers to mark-up Stonehaven, Penzance, and Full Virginia Flake to $180 per pound so as to do away with all those nasty consignments.
> This way the supplies would last longer and everyone could have a chance at them all the time! No more unfair secondary money-making!
> 
> There you go, problem solved! :boohoo:


Welcome to Canada!!!! :banana:


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## indigosmoke (Sep 1, 2009)

sorry, posted to the wrong thread.


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## plexiprs (Nov 18, 2005)

4noggins said:


> Plexiprs,
> 
> While you're at it, you might want to change your profile so that your fav cigar is not Artisens Blend...........that's pipe tobacco.
> 
> Rich


Reinforce my point four-fold, you did, thanks! :whoo:


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## Blaylock-cl (Apr 28, 2006)

Seems some of us need to be reminded that personal attacks, derogatory comments and such, will NOT be tolerated.

I'd suggest we keep this one on topic!


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## Scardinoz (Mar 15, 2010)

Stonehaven must be wonderful to get so many people this worked up.

There are some people on eBay who price gouge so I refuse to do business with eBay. I treat all of my other vendors likewise.


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## indigosmoke (Sep 1, 2009)

Stonehaven is a great tobacco and I buy it for the normal price or trade for it when I can, but there are so many great tobaccos out there that I personally don't pay inflated prices when the supply runs out. I just sit back and enjoy Uni Flake, the Frogs, Deep Hollow, Hal 'o the Wynd, Classic Burley Kake etc, etc, etc. 

I could almost see myself paying more if the tobacco was discontinued or a one off type of thing (like the GLP LOTR Blends) but the thing about Stonehaven is it will be back and if you check this board a couple of times a day you'll probably get some when it comes back in stock and someone posts thats it's available. 

If you'd like to risk becoming addicted send me a PM and I'll send you a sample to try.


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## plexiprs (Nov 18, 2005)

Scardinoz said:


> Stonehaven must be wonderful to get so many people this worked up.


It is good stuff, but nowhere near the inflated prices seen lately. What people want most and is hardest to get drives up price. Then the limited availability and artificial mystique drives up the want ..... cyclic and *not* exclusive to pipe tobacco.



indigosmoke said:


> Stonehaven is a great tobacco and I buy it for the normal price or trade for it when I can, but there are so many great tobaccos out there that I personally don't pay inflated prices when the supply runs out. I just sit back and enjoy Uni Flake, the Frogs, Deep Hollow, Hal 'o the Wynd, Classic Burley Kake etc, etc, etc.


Very well put and my approach as well. Smoke another AAAAA blend and learn to appreciate what you really like. Don't chase after something and long for it just because others rave about it. Most of them couldn't name it in a blind test, they just want to fit in and be like all the other experts.


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## commonsenseman (Apr 18, 2008)

Yep, you guys are right. I really enjoy it, but not enough to pay crazy prices. 

Now FVF is another story.....


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## smelvis (Sep 7, 2009)

Blaylock said:


> Seems some of us need to be reminded that personal attacks, derogatory comments and such, will NOT be tolerated.
> 
> I'd suggest we keep this one on topic!


Alright sorry pa, I'll be good.


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## 4noggins (May 9, 2009)

plexiprs said:


> Reinforce my point four-fold, you did, thanks! :whoo:


Hey genius. Now I have to correct you again....you spelled my name wrong in your profile.

Man, thank goodness I don't have any high maintenance, miserable, customers like you. I really feel bad for the shops you do use.

Rich


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## commonsenseman (Apr 18, 2008)

^^^^^ Sarcasm?


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## plexiprs (Nov 18, 2005)

commonsenseman said:


> ^^^^^ Sarcasm?


Requires a intelligence .... not just a couple Rolex watches ...... falling for the change to profile and misspelling his baby was the test!!oke:

Glad there are _*real*_ tobacco and pipe vendors on the net ........


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## Blaylock-cl (Apr 28, 2006)

Blaylock said:


> Seems some of us need to be reminded that personal attacks, derogatory comments and such, will NOT be tolerated.
> 
> I'd suggest we keep this one on topic!





4noggins said:


> Hey genius. Now I have to correct you again....you spelled my name wrong in your profile.
> 
> Man, thank goodness I don't have any high maintenance, miserable, customers like you. I really feel bad for the shops you do use.
> 
> Rich





plexiprs said:


> Requires a intelligence .... not just a couple Rolex watches ...... falling for the change to profile and misspelling his baby was the test!!oke:
> 
> Glad there are _*real*_ tobacco and pipe vendors on the net ........


I suggested that the nonsense stop. It didn't.

This one is closed. Sending you both a pm. Read it carefully!


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