# Tobacco Shop Etiquette?



## la157m3 (Oct 4, 2009)

Okay, so now that I'm fully engulfed and re-hooked back onto my pipe and my Uncle's pipes 25 years later, I visited my first tobacconist in as many years. Found a place called "The Humidor" in San Antonio, Texas. They say they've been there for decades and they have a really, really nice shop. Half the shop is all their tobac blends, pipe stuff, and several glass display cases on the wall and glass counters. Wide variety of stuff and they carry all the well-known pipes and even some higher-end stuff. Other half of the store is dedicated to cigars and they have a huge walk-in cigar humidor. They also have a smoking room that looks the old style library completely furnished with plush, leather chairs and sofas. Great place, huh?

First time I went there (couple weeks ago) the guy behind the tobac counter was very helpful, very friendly, showed me around the place. Today, however, that guy wasn't there - only a lady was working.

I marched over to the pipe display cases to try and pick out a Christmas pipe for my wife to get for me  I saw a few interesting pipes and decided to take my cell phone out and snap a couple of photos of a couple different pipes so I could show my wife and tell her "that one right there! Not the light colored one of this make...but THIS one!"

After my 3rd up-close photo of one of the pipes, this guy rushes over to me and exclaims "Sir, you can't take pictures in here!" I apologized and told him I was picking out a pipe so my wife could come get it after I made my decision. He said "Sorry, you just can't take pictures in here" and he walked away. Other people were standing around looking at me like I had done something wrong. The lady then walked over and asked if she could show me a pipe. I asked her about the problem with taking pics and she said "That's just what they want - it's a long story." WTH?

The more I stood there the more pissed I got. I had planned on buying the nice reaming tool to use in restoring my Uncle's pipes. I also wanted to get a nice travel pouch that would hold tobac and a pipe. There were even a couple of really nice pipes that I *MIGHT* have purchased today but after my experience I walked away disappointed and baffled.

Did I do something wrong? Why is taking photos of pipes a no-no? I did not take any overall pics of the shop - only up close pics of the 3 pipes that peaked my interest.

If the people had pipes on their web site (humidorsat-dot-com) I would not have had to take pics!

Is it just me or was this ridiculous?


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## dmkerr (Oct 27, 2008)

What guy? I thought only a lady was working? Was it an employee? Is the shop in a mall that might have such a rule and was the guy a mall employee? A mall cop, perhaps?

I would have asked the guy why you were not allowed to take pics. It's a fair question and it seems such an odd rule that I think it demands an explanation. If I was refused a reasonable explanation, I would tell them that I guess I need to take my business elsewhere where the employees were more open and honest with their prospective customers.


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## thebayratt (Jun 4, 2009)

It seems kinda assinine to me. But its kinda like at the "Gentlemans club" they frown on you to pull out your camera phone and take pics of "the merchandice". 

Maybe they had a bad experience where people were taking pics of the pipes and going to other retailers to "get better deals". Saying "so-n-so across town has it for $10 less". But they should be curtious about it also. San Antonio is a big tourist area and that wouldn't be good for business to act like an a$$ to tourists LET ALONE a repeat customer as yourself.

Maybe go back and catch the guy who helped you the first time and maybe he could give you the skinny on why.


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## Davetopay (Jan 19, 2008)

Sounds to me like someone is worried about anti-smoking nazis trying to set them up for a fall. I know that I get the hairy eyeball from all the "regulars" that hang out in the lounge at the local shop when I roll in the door. Maybe someone in there is involved in local politics in some way and doesn't need pics of themselves floating around. Lord knows that consenting adults can't be seen enjoying a fine cigar or relaxing with a pipe. It might make a child go out and spend their allow ance on a 15 dollar...cig.....ar.....ummmmm a 100 dollar pipe and a 10 dollar tin of navy flaaa....ke.....ummmm yeah.....:redface:


Honestly I have no idea why they would have a problem with it, but they do. Was the guy who raised a stink and owner or employee? I know at the local shop you can't hang out in the lounge unless you smoke something you bought on THAT visit. I can't go in, buy tin and a bag of cleaners then proceed to smoke a pipe which I purchased there...loaded with tobac from a previous trip there. I must smoke only what I bought at that time. Therefore I don't hangout in the lounge anymore.


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## la157m3 (Oct 4, 2009)

dmkerr said:


> What guy? I thought only a lady was working? Was it an employee? Is the shop in a mall that might have such a rule and was the guy a mall employee? A mall cop, perhaps?
> 
> I would have asked the guy why you were not allowed to take pics. It's a fair question and it seems such an odd rule that I think it demands an explanation. If I was refused a reasonable explanation, I would tell them that I guess I need to take my business elsewhere where the employees were more open and honest with their prospective customers.


The guy had to a manager or owner - I can only speculate though. I was so caught off guard by his reaction I didn't confront him about the problem. Like I said, I thought I had done something wrong that all pipe smokers should have known better?

This a large stand alone business in San Antonio. Like I said - really nice place but not sure if I want to waste gas to go there and pay state sales tax. This may have driven my business to the internet and out of state. Too bad because it really looks like a neat place I'd like to frequent.


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## Lefty (Jun 5, 2007)

This makes me appreciate my B&M more and more. Not only do they let me bring in outside tobac, they let me put a pipe on layaway with no money down. Quite honestly, I don't buy a lot from them but the trade off is in friendship and tolerance (I tolerate them...bunch of wise-guys). They are more than guys at the smoke shop, they are friends. A while back my girlfriend and I were talking about if we ever decided to get married, who would we invite, and there would be MANY invited from the smoke shop, employees and patrons.

There is another B&M in town that is better stocked, but quite frankly the place gives me and many others the creeps. The stories we here from non regulars or new folks about the place are just staggering. 

People will go where they are comfortable and will support it.Yes, they have their share of free-loaders, but the good folks make up for it in spades. It's a pleasure to have such a great place to hang out and enjoy a bowl or a good cigar.


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## Commander Quan (May 6, 2003)

My guess is they don't want you shopping in their store for a new pipe and then looking for it cheaper online.


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## Mad Hatter (Apr 8, 2007)

Whatever it is I'm sure its a long story


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## Vrbas (Sep 17, 2008)

Mad Hatter said:


> Whatever it is I'm sure its a long story


+1

It may not be a general thing among shops. Perhaps this shop really did have a traumatic event that jaded the stew out of the place in the past.


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## Mitch (Oct 2, 2009)

It sounds to me, from the ladies reaction, the guy was burned somehow and she probably didn't really care much about it. If I were you, I would go back. Maybe he was having a bad day. You don't know the friendships you may build there.


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## BigKev77 (Feb 16, 2008)

I definatly would have made the guy explain himself. I get so frustrated at the poeple who don't care how they treat a customer. There are many other retailers that would be glad to take your money.


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## Cigary (Oct 19, 2007)

bigkev77 said:


> I definatly would have made the guy explain himself. I get so frustrated at the poeple who don't care how they treat a customer. There are many other retailers that would be glad to take your money.


Ditto this. I'm not a troublemaker by any means but when I am in a store and something like this happens trust me,,,,I'm going to get an explanation about what just took place. What this guy did was totally unprofessional and stupid. If anything, he should have taken you aside and told you about what his concerns might be as to why he does not want any photos taken. If a shop owner wags a finger at me or says you I can't do something you can bet I will take them to task about what their deal might be, esp. in a shop with people watching and listening. I would then tell the shop owner/manager how they just missed getting a customer to buy a pipe and other things that you were looking at. If we don't hold these clowns accountable for their actions then who will? He acted like a buffoon at best and I wouldn't step foot in that place if that is how they treat customers. I don't have an issue with rules but at least either put them up where people can read them or gently explain to customers about how things are in your shop instead of treating them like schoolchildren.


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## dmkerr (Oct 27, 2008)

See, I AM kind of a troublemaker - or at least, I can be a smartass. I probably would have asked if they had any rules against customers wearing sneakers or against African-Americans. 



Cigary said:


> Ditto this. I'm not a troublemaker by any means but when I am in a store and something like this happens trust me,,,,I'm going to get an explanation about what just took place. What this guy did was totally unprofessional and stupid. If anything, he should have taken you aside and told you about what his concerns might be as to why he does not want any photos taken. If a shop owner wags a finger at me or says you I can't do something you can bet I will take them to task about what their deal might be, esp. in a shop with people watching and listening. I would then tell the shop owner/manager how they just missed getting a customer to buy a pipe and other things that you were looking at. If we don't hold these clowns accountable for their actions then who will? He acted like a buffoon at best and I wouldn't step foot in that place if that is how they treat customers. I don't have an issue with rules but at least either put them up where people can read them or gently explain to customers about how things are in your shop instead of treating them like schoolchildren.


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## ongreystreet (Nov 3, 2008)

Even though you meant no harm, most businesses wouldn't want anyone coming in and taking pictures without prior approval. I wouldn't hold it against them.


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## Mad Hatter (Apr 8, 2007)

Honestly dude, askng permission probably would have been the proper way to go about it. I'd never do anything like that w/o asking first. Of course I never take my cell phone in stores with me either. Just seems like good manners


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## Pipe Organist (Sep 7, 2009)

I had a string of unpleasant experiences with a B&M of great repute in the Metro Detroit area a number of years ago. I purchased a number of pipes from them as well as tobaccos. In the day, they were the "go-to" place.

At some point the owner sold the business to a couple of the guys that basically managed the place. They kept the name, but apparently squandered the good will pretty quickly. They raised their prices, began redecorating, and eventually took out the nice public seating area for sitting and enjoying a nice cigar or pipe and chatting with other regulars. 

They replaced the open area with a closed-door private area with members-only cigar lockers, that came at a ridiculously high price tag. The place wasn't Dunhill of London, after all. They moved the big screen TV, chairs, etc., into the members-only section. Members were not even permitted to invite non-members into the private area. Management treated non-members pretty shabbily, especially if a particular customer didn't seem to be the "right kind of customer."

I told the new owners exactly what I thought and walked out. I even sent an email to "Cigar Dave" because he advertised the place on his show! I predicted that they'd be out of business within the year.

Guess what?

Yeah, what a shame. Ya know, you alienate your customers and they tend to stop being customers. Make that duplicatible, and soon you got no customers, no cash and no business.

Give the B&M in question on this thread the benefit of the doubt. I completely understand when people have a bad day. If it becomes a pattern, vote with your feet and your wallet.


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## Z.Kramer (Jul 2, 2009)

No matter the reason for or validity of the rule (or if it even exists when that fellow is not present), the way the guy approached the situation was completely inappropriate IMO. However I would give them the benefit of the doubt and find out if this is regular behavior. It would be a shame for you to miss out on the place and the people because ONE employee had ONE bad moment/day.

Of course if the rudeness is regular take you patronage elsewhere.


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## Mitch (Oct 2, 2009)

I would agree with some of the other guys too. I wouldn't ever go to a place and take a picture of anything unless I first asked. I feel the way the fella handled the situation wasn't correct "You didn't know any better, it shouldn't have been a big deal". Just remember we all have a bad day, it may have been his. If you go back and they are punks, then go elsewhere.


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## RCReecer (Apr 28, 2008)

Lefty said:


> There is another B&M in town that is better stocked, but quite frankly the place gives me and many others the creeps. The stories we here from non regulars or new folks about the place are just staggering.


We have a store like that in the Metro Atlanta area. I won't mention the name of the place, but everyone in the area knows who/where they are.

JD, I would go back and see if you can talk to them about it. How they treat you will go a long way in determining if you should go back or not. I'm sure they have a valid reason (to them) for the policy. There's no reason to get out of sorts over it, especially when this is a place you'd like to frequent. Having a good relationship with a shop you like can really make an impact on your smoking enjoyment.


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## Crazycoonass (Aug 25, 2009)

I guess I got lucky in that there's a nice little tobacco shop in the french quarter called cresent city cigars, they have a nice selection of pipes and tobaccos and although the sitting area is a little shabby, a little run down, but those big old leather chairs are so comfy and they have no problem with u smoking a bowl or a cigar there as long as u buy something, even if its just pipe cleaners. The other place I go is the Tinderbox, but they only have one older fella thats really into the pipes, the other two there are what i refer to as "cigar snobs" who if Im not buying a cigar just try to sell me the most expensive pipe they can find with no real knowledge of brand and-or type. Yeah, dont like that place much. Oh and theres also the Ra Shop who have a few low end tobacco pipes but its mostly a head shop.


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## juni (Oct 16, 2009)

> There is another B&M in town that is better stocked, but quite frankly the place gives me and many others the creeps. The stories we here from non regulars or new folks about the place are just staggering.


Ok, now I'm curious and wouldn't mind hearing those stories.

(we have a small cigar/pipe shop here where I bought my last pipe, run by *the* pipe expert in the city. He was very helpful getting me started)


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## MasonM (Nov 1, 2009)

Frankly, and I mean no disrespect at all, but you were in the wrong by snapping photos without asking first. As I travel for a living, I often like to snap photos or video of interesting places that I visit, but I always ask permission before doing so.

Simple courtesy goes a long way. As for how the gentleman handled the situation, it sounds like he could have done a better job of it, but perhaps he felt offended by the photography without permission.


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## Nurse_Maduro (Oct 23, 2008)

This really surprises me. Cigar Magazine had an interview not too long ago with Tiffany Rumbo (who co-owns the mini-chain Club Humidor in San Antonio with her husband). Apparently, there are three locations they've recently purchased from her brother-in-law that are still named The Humidor that the're going to be renaming Club Humidor, and I have to believe this is one of them.

Anyway, from everything I've seen and read, they've really become B&M heroes by how well they focus their stores around the customer. The way you were treated really flies in the face of how she runs her places and, at the very least, you deserved an explanation.

I'd fire off an email _politely_ explaining what happened, and ask for the reason why you were treated so ubruptly. I'd also mention that you want to do business with them, but want to feel welcome in a store you patronize. If it's one of hers, I'd be shocked if she didn't do right by you.

[email protected] (I'd put Attn: Tiffany Rumbo in the subject line)

Good luck, brother. Let us know.


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## la157m3 (Oct 4, 2009)

MasonM said:


> Frankly, and I mean no disrespect at all, but you were in the wrong by snapping photos without asking first. As I travel for a living, I often like to snap photos or video of interesting places that I visit, but I always ask permission before doing so.
> 
> Simple courtesy goes a long way. As for how the gentleman handled the situation, it sounds like he could have done a better job of it, but perhaps he felt offended by the photography without permission.


I understand your point of view; however, I was not taking photos of the shop, people inside, or anything like that. I held my phone up to the display case, about 3" away from the pipe I wanted, and took a photo. I did this 3 times so I could have my wife surprise me with a choice from the 3 I gave her.

This is a public business - open to everyone and everything. So what if I take a quick cell phone pic of something I'm wanting to spend $195 - $250 on purchasing? This is a rather substantial investment in a pipe and taking my time and taking a couple of quick pics of something I'm wanting to buy from them, to me, is NOT out of line.

If they had photos of their pipes on their web site, like many others do, then I never would have had to take a pic. But honestly, what's the difference between taking a couple of cell phone pics of a couple different Toro model lawnmowers at Home Depot or taking a couple of pics of a Stanwell pipe that I'm about to spend the same amount on as a new lawnmower would cost?

Should I not whip out my cell phone camera and snap a photo of a couple of recliners I'm going to buy from the La-z-Boy Gallery while I'm making up my mind of what style and color I want? I don't know - I still don't see the need to go ask a salesman on the floor if he "minds" if I take a pic of the merchandise I'm considering spending a few hundred of my hard earned dollars for.

It's a public place - it's a pipe shop - I'm trying to bring them some business, not trying to steal corporate secrets.


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## la157m3 (Oct 4, 2009)

Nurse_Maduro said:


> This really surprises me. Cigar Magazine had an interview not too long ago with Tiffany Rumbo (who co-owns the mini-chain Club Humidor in San Antonio with her husband). Apparently, there are three locations they've recently purchased from her brother-in-law that are still named The Humidor that the're going to be renaming Club Humidor, and I have to believe this is one of them.
> 
> Anyway, from everything I've seen and read, they've really become B&M heroes by how well they focus their stores around the customer. The way you were treated really flies in the face of how she runs her places and, at the very least, you deserved an explanation.
> 
> ...


Thanks - that's probably not a bad idea. The main reason for this post was to find out if I was out of line. I had no idea if etiquette called for no pics of pipes in a tobacco store. From the responses here it certainly looks as though this was a very odd incident.

I'll let you know what happens. Who knows - maybe the guy who approached me and wigged-out didn't fully understand what I was doing...or maybe they really don't want pics of their pipes taken!

I'll follow-up with a response from them.


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## Mad Hatter (Apr 8, 2007)

la157m3 said:


> I understand your point of view; however, I was not taking photos of the shop, people inside, or anything like that. I held my phone up to the display case, about 3" away from the pipe I wanted, and took a photo. I did this 3 times so I could have my wife surprise me with a choice from the 3 I gave her.
> 
> This is a public business - open to everyone and everything. So what if I take a quick cell phone pic of something I'm wanting to spend $195 - $250 on purchasing? This is a rather substantial investment in a pipe and taking my time and taking a couple of quick pics of something I'm wanting to buy from them, to me, is NOT out of line.
> 
> ...


Yeah its a public place that's privately owned. Don't forget that B&Ms of all sorts are going belly up because they're being run out of business by online marketing that in many cases have better selection, lower overhead, greater customer reach and better prices. Would it be a leap of the imagination to think maybe you were shooting photos to go home and shop for a better price? I wouldn't ask a salesman to refer me to a shop with better prices, to give me a serial number so I could see if I could find a better price and or take photos of a product without asking permission and explaining why I wanted to do so first because all three are just plain bad manners. Just to cut this short and keep it polite, two wrongs don't make a right and IMO you were both wrong.


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## Cigary (Oct 19, 2007)

Mad Hatter said:


> Yeah its a public place that's privately owned. Don't forget that B&Ms of all sorts are going belly up because they're being run out of business by online marketing that in many cases have better selection, lower overhead, greater customer reach and better prices. Would it be a leap of the imagination to think maybe you were shooting photos to go home and shop for a better price? I wouldn't ask a salesman to refer me to a shop with better prices, to give me a serial number so I could see if I could find a better price and or take photos of a product without asking permission and explaining why I wanted to do so first because all three are just plain bad manners. Just to cut this short and keep it polite, two wrongs don't make a right and IMO you were both wrong.


While you do bring valid points of view from the B&M perspective you leave out that a business lives and dies on it's performance to serve the consumer,,,not the other way around. The business owner drafts a plan in the way he conducts his business and if he assumes that we owe him a living then he has already been defeated. The business acumen suggests that you find a way to service the consumer and ways to make the consumer want to do business with you by giving great service and great product. When a consumer goes into a shop he is there to either buy or look and should be treated with respect and consideration so that if he doesn't buy he will come back because of that consideration.

The business owner is the one who should know better than to treat ANY customer with disrespect and if there is a breach of etiquette then take the time to talk with that customer in a private conversation and be polite and tell them what your feelings entail,,,not assume that every customer is coming in to "comparison shop",,,if that is something that is a problem then put up a sign so that people are aware of it. It used to said that the customer is always right,,,it was put that way so that the owner understands that it is the customer who pays his bills and not the other way around. Is it ok for a customer to disrespect the owner? Of course not but when you enter into the business vocation you understand the consequences of your choices,,,,that you will have to deal with "bad" consumers and you will have to deal with it in a professional manner or suffer the consequences of that decision.


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## la157m3 (Oct 4, 2009)

Mad Hatter said:


> Yeah its a public place that's privately owned. Don't forget that B&Ms of all sorts are going belly up because they're being run out of business by online marketing that in many cases have better selection, lower overhead, greater customer reach and better prices. Would it be a leap of the imagination to think maybe you were shooting photos to go home and shop for a better price? I wouldn't ask a salesman to refer me to a shop with better prices, to give me a serial number so I could see if I could find a better price and or take photos of a product without asking permission and explaining why I wanted to do so first because all three are just plain bad manners. Just to cut this short and keep it polite, two wrongs don't make a right and IMO you were both wrong.


Competition amongst business is what fuels capitalism and our society, Sir. So what if I my whole intent of being there was to shop prices? God forbid I compare prices between Lowe's & Home Depot over my next yard rake. Having said that, my posts clearly detail that I was not there shopping prices - I was shopping pipes. Spent time and gas to go there and spend money with them, instead I lost time and gas and they lost the sales.

And how in the world would prohibiting a picture of a pipe keep me from shopping and comparing prices anyway? Like anyone in their right mind couldn't walk in there, note that the Stanwell Majestic #365 costs so-n-so, then go compare at other shops or online?

Using your logic we should have to walk into a pipe shop, not look at the pipes or prices, and hand them $250 and hope we get a pipe we like. Ridiculous.

Let me say again - I was NOT shopping prices - I went in there to take a couple of pics of specific pipes for my wife to know which one to buy for me at Xmas.

Simple as that.


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## MasonM (Nov 1, 2009)

la157m3 said:


> I understand your point of view; however, I was not taking photos of the shop, people inside, or anything like that. I held my phone up to the display case, about 3" away from the pipe I wanted, and took a photo. I did this 3 times so I could have my wife surprise me with a choice from the 3 I gave her.
> 
> This is a public business - open to everyone and everything. So what if I take a quick cell phone pic of something I'm wanting to spend $195 - $250 on purchasing? This is a rather substantial investment in a pipe and taking my time and taking a couple of quick pics of something I'm wanting to buy from them, to me, is NOT out of line.
> 
> ...


Begging your pardon, sir, but you did ask opinions here regarding your actions as well as their actions, and yet you seem to wish to debate the very opinions for which you asked.

As I stated previously, yes the gentleman in question most certainly could have handled the situation better, but the entire thing could have been avoided with a bit of simple courtesy on your part by asking before snapping photos in a privately owned business. A business is private property, not a public place, even if it is open to the public.

Honestly, and again I mean no disrespect toward you at all, it seems that you are unwilling to even consider the possibility that you did anything wrong in this situation.

But then, opinions are like ... :lol:


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## la157m3 (Oct 4, 2009)

MasonM said:


> Begging your pardon, sir, but you did ask opinions here regarding your actions as well as their actions, and yet you seem to wish to debate the very opinions for which you asked.
> 
> As I stated previously, yes the gentleman in question most certainly could have handled the situation better, but the entire thing could have been avoided with a bit of simple courtesy on your part by asking before snapping photos in a privately owned business. A business is private property, not a public place, even if it is open to the public.
> 
> ...


Touche, Sir, touche. You're right... :grouphug:


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## Jaxon67 (Dec 1, 2008)

Mad Hatter said:


> Honestly dude, askng permission probably would have been the proper way to go about it. I'd never do anything like that w/o asking first. Of course I never take my cell phone in stores with me either. Just seems like good manners


You dont take your cell phone with you into stores? Ahhh....to be single again.


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## Mitch (Oct 2, 2009)

Well brother, I am not sure why you asked us then if you already determined it is proper to take pics at a store. I don't think he should have treated you the way he did though. Don't want to be a jerk, but if you have your mind made up, then why ask us?


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## Mad Hatter (Apr 8, 2007)

Jaxon67 said:


> You dont take your cell phone with you into stores? Ahhh....to be single again.


Yep, 37 and still single. Believe it or not the silence of a house that I share with no one is more wonderful than ever before and gets nicer as time goes by. Always knowing that what I left somewhere will be in the exact same place when I see it again and having complete control of the TV are pretty nice too.

:amen:


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## Mad Hatter (Apr 8, 2007)

la157m3 said:


> Competition amongst business is what fuels capitalism and our society.
> 
> You watch too much TV. Competition doesn't fuel very small, privately owned business. That's why ma and pa businesses aren't thriving these days.
> 
> ...


Sorry if you expected everyone to stand up and take your side but as the others who posted before me said, if you didn't want to hear you shouldn't have asked.


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## la157m3 (Oct 4, 2009)

Mad Hatter said:


> Sorry if you expected everyone to stand up and take your side but as the others who posted before me said, if you didn't want to hear you shouldn't have asked.


Had you taken the time to read the original post you would have answered your own questions and not posted the way you've done. But to clarify:


I _did_ tell the man what I was doing - he did not care, stated not to take pictures, then walked away
I didn't expect everyone to stand up for me as you say - I only asked if there was something I didn't know about that was _expected behavior_ in tobacco shops since I've been away for a while. It's clear now that there is no etiquette about taking pics of pipes in shops - only _opinions_ as to whether one should or should not
If you paid double the amount for your pipes as opposed to buying them online then that costly decision is on you. As of yet I have not been able to find that good of a deal. In my experience with shopping for anything - most stuff is fairly competitive and it makes sense to buy local because you can have it now. If not, what you save on state/local sales tax on line you lose in shipping costs - so I always choose local first.
How you translate that I watch too much TV because of our discussion on capitalism is beyond me


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## Requiem (Dec 6, 2008)

Cigary said:


> While you do bring valid points of view from the B&M perspective you leave out that a business lives and dies on it's performance to serve the consumer,,,not the other way around. The business owner drafts a plan in the way he conducts his business and if he assumes that we owe him a living then he has already been defeated. The business acumen suggests that you find a way to service the consumer and ways to make the consumer want to do business with you by giving great service and great product. When a consumer goes into a shop he is there to either buy or look and should be treated with respect and consideration so that if he doesn't buy he will come back because of that consideration.
> 
> The business owner is the one who should know better than to treat ANY customer with disrespect and if there is a breach of etiquette then take the time to talk with that customer in a private conversation and be polite and tell them what your feelings entail,,,not assume that every customer is coming in to "comparison shop",,,if that is something that is a problem then put up a sign so that people are aware of it. It used to said that the customer is always right,,,it was put that way so that the owner understands that it is the customer who pays his bills and not the other way around. Is it ok for a customer to disrespect the owner? Of course not but when you enter into the business vocation you understand the consequences of your choices,,,,that you will have to deal with "bad" consumers and you will have to deal with it in a professional manner or suffer the consequences of that decision.


I agree with Cigary.
Besides, what's the problem with price comparision? I don´t see why a competitor should not be able to walk into any shop and take notice, on a notebook, cellphone or any other device, of offer and prices displayed at another shop... it can be done in many different ways and there is no way to prevent it.

My opinion is: anything you can openly put your eyes on, you can openly take a picture of... if there's something someone wants to keep secret, keep it out of sight.


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## Mad Hatter (Apr 8, 2007)

la157m3 said:


> Had you taken the time to read the original post you would have answered your own questions and not posted the way you've done. But to clarify:
> 
> 
> I _did_ tell the man what I was doing - he did not care, stated not to take pictures, then walked away
> ...


I did read the OP and I'm not getting in a pissing match with you. Obviously the guy didn't really care about getting or losing your business so buy the pipe online and you'll probably save money anyway


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## Cigary (Oct 19, 2007)

Mad Hatter said:


> Sorry if you expected everyone to stand up and take your side but as the others who posted before me said, if you didn't want to hear you shouldn't have asked.


It's not about sides as much as what is right or wrong. The brother did everything in his power to ensure that his actions were not being taken as someone who was trying to disenfranchise the owner. He explained his intentions honorably and to the point. The B&M owner chose to take the position he did. All he asked in the post was to see what others positions might be under the same set of circumstances and people have answered. I would think leeway should be given on both sides as he asked and people answered and he is doing what he feels is right in looking for a solution as he has. Maybe time to close this thread,,,Mods?


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## Mad Hatter (Apr 8, 2007)

Cigary said:


> It's not about sides as much as what is right or wrong. The brother did everything in his power to ensure that his actions were not being taken as someone who was trying to disenfranchise the owner. He explained his intentions honorably and to the point. The B&M owner chose to take the position he did. All he asked in the post was to see what others positions might be under the same set of circumstances and people have answered. I would think leeway should be given on both sides as he asked and people answered and he is doing what he feels is right in looking for a solution as he has. Maybe time to close this thread,,,Mods?


Well CIGARy when I first went to a B&M you could just see it written on the clerks' faces, "Yep, here's another fly-by-nighter, gonna be a pipe smoker until he figures out it takes work." Did I get worked up about? No. Did I really care? No, people are generally pretty much creatures of habits and its not that hard to figure out why they're thinking what they're thinking. Who cares? They came to see that I stuck with it and they probably figure the reason they don't see me very often is because like most other people I prefer to get it cheaper and easier online. What your friend could have done was get out of his miff and go back to the shop with a cool head to give them a second chance to see what their real attitude is.


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## Cigary (Oct 19, 2007)

Mad Hatter said:


> Well CIGARy when I first went to a B&M you could just see it written on the clerks' faces, "Yep, here's another fly-by-nighter, gonna be a pipe smoker until he figures out it takes work." Did I get worked up about? No. Did I really care? No, people are generally pretty much creatures of habits and its not that hard to figure out why they're thinking what they're thinking. Who cares? They came to see that I stuck with it and they probably figure the reason they don't see me very often is because like most other people I prefer to get it cheaper and easier online. What your friend could have done was get out of his miff and go back to the shop with a cool head to give them a second chance to see what their real attitude is.


Pretty sure he did just that but since neither you or I were there we pretty much have to take his word for it unless the B&M owner wants to get involved,,,,I don't see that happening.

If a B&M owner is thinking what you said then he doesn't need to be in that business because his livlihood depends on how he interracts with his customers regardless of what he "thinks" about any patron. If he's that good at figuring out people and things he should spend his time at the track or Vegas with these kinds of skills.

I get that owners have bad days,,,I really get that more than you are aware. I spent 25 years in the business of selling products and services and the successful people are the ones who are able to keep their heads in their business without telling their customers how or what to buy but to gently lead them and gaining their trust. I don't know as we might be from different generations and our thoughts are obviously different in regards to viewpoint. Businesses stay in business when they cater to their clientelle,,,not the other way around. People will shop where they feel welcome for the most part and patronage of that business will continue based on what the consumer wants,,,not the owner. ( I think I just spent my last 2 cents on this,,,my pockets are now empty and I see no allowance coming early. We may have to agree to disagree on this ):humble:


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## la157m3 (Oct 4, 2009)

Cigary said:


> ( I think I just spent my last 2 cents on this,,,my pockets are now empty and I see no allowance coming early. We may have to agree to disagree on this ):humble:


Well said :tape2: Hopefully the owner will respond to the email inquiry I sent and we'll have the result to post soon.


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## Piledriver (Sep 23, 2008)

Just look and examine the pipes in the store and write down what you like. Then give the list to your wife.


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## Mitch (Oct 2, 2009)

la157m3 said:


> I didn't expect everyone to stand up for me as you say - I only asked if there was something I didn't know about that was _expected behavior_ in tobacco shops since I've been away for a while. It's clear now that there is no etiquette about taking pics of pipes in shops - only _opinions_ as to whether one should or should not


I have talked to several people I am friends/family with about it, and they all thought it was weird you thought it was ok to take pictures at a public store. You just don't do that bro, honestly I think its a typical American way of thinking, we should be able to what ever we want because were American


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## smelvis (Sep 7, 2009)

Mitch said:


> I have talked to several people I am friends/family with about it, and they all thought it was weird you thought it was ok to take pictures at a public store. You just don't do that bro, honestly I think its a typical American way of thinking, we should be able to what ever we want because were American


Mitch I agree!

I think as stated if you would have asked to take a couple photos of individual pipes and not the whole store, not that you did. Then they would have said sure.


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## la157m3 (Oct 4, 2009)

Mitch said:


> You just don't do that bro, honestly I think its a typical American way of thinking, we should be able to what ever we want because were American


You're an idiot. Hate to be so blunt, but you're an idiot. :usa:


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## Mitch (Oct 2, 2009)

la157m3 said:


> You're an idiot. Hate to be so blunt, but you're an idiot. :usa:


WOW, what a manly way to handle it, name calling. Sorry, I shouldn't have said anything earlier, just stating my opinion. I hope you can get things worked out at the store, and I hope you can find your pipe.


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## Blaylock-cl (Apr 28, 2006)

Personally my wife could care less what a pipe looks like even if she were buying it for me for Christmas. She'd probably just tell me to pick the one I want. As a matter of fact, she ask me the other day if I wanted a new pipe or something like this Christmas, (god I love that women). :mrgreen:

I would have either bought it myself and told her "this is the pipe I wanted for Christmas" or given the store clerk the money for it (or left a deposit) and have him put it asiide for me.

If I did want to take pictures though, I would have asked first.


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## Blaylock-cl (Apr 28, 2006)

la157m3 said:


> You're an idiot. Hate to be so blunt, but you're an idiot. :usa:


Well that's not going to go over to well here! :nono:


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## BigKev77 (Feb 16, 2008)

Mitch said:


> I have talked to several people I am friends/family with about it, and they all thought it was weird you thought it was ok to take pictures at a public store. You just don't do that bro, honestly I think its a typical American way of thinking, we should be able to what ever we want because were American


That is quite a stretch, _bro. _Also, pretty funny you felt so strongly that you "talked to several people you are friends/family with about it".:lie: Too funny, _bro.:usa:_


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## Mitch (Oct 2, 2009)

bigkev77 said:


> That is quite a stretch, _bro. _Also, pretty funny you felt so strongly that you "talked to several people you are friends/family with about it".:lie: Too funny, _bro.:usa:_


It was my wife, and some friends, I brought it up in conversation. I talk through everything. Right now I am talking to them about how much of an idiot I am


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## MarkC (Jul 4, 2009)

la157m3 said:


> But honestly, what's the difference between taking a couple of cell phone pics of a couple different Toro model lawnmowers at Home Depot or taking a couple of pics of a Stanwell pipe that I'm about to spend the same amount on as a new lawnmower would cost?


Having worked at Home Depot and Target, I can assure you that if you started taking photos in either of these places, you would be asked to stop.


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## MarkC (Jul 4, 2009)

Mitch said:


> It was my wife, and some friends, I brought it up in conversation. I talk through everything. Right now I am talking to them about how much of an idiot I am


Call my ex; she's always willing to help in that department...


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## selleri (Feb 6, 2008)

Piledriver said:


> Just look and examine the pipes in the store and write down what you like.


Isn't that just what happened?  Taking pictures of the price tags or products I'm planning to buy is the sole purpose of a phone camera for me. I've actually never even thought that somebady might be offended about it (and so far nobody has been), unless of course something else than just the product or the price tag is shown. But that is not what happens if you use the camera for taking notes as you have to take the pics from close range, otherwise the text and numbers are unreadable in the pic.


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## Nurse_Maduro (Oct 23, 2008)

la157m3 said:


> You're an idiot. Hate to be so blunt, but you're an idiot. :usa:


Let's try to avoid to outright name calling, shall we? I'm pretty certain that doesn't fall under _any_ kind of etiquette. 

Here's my question from all of this: Jon has been pimping the Puff Cigar Rating iPhone app for a while. The iPhone also has a camera. Is it even safe to pull the damn thing out in a shop to get a rating, or should we not do that now on the grounds that the owner _might_ think we're trying to take a picture?

It's amazing how passionate people are on this topic; for me, it's a massive grey area.

(Apologies if any of this has already been said. The computer I'm on this morning is taking up to 5 mins to load each page, and I'm only partway through the thread.)


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## Hawnted (Oct 20, 2009)

Nurse_Maduro said:


> Let's try to avoid to outright name calling, shall we? I'm pretty certain that doesn't fall under _any_ kind of etiquette.
> 
> Here's my question from all of this: Jon has been pimping the Puff Cigar Rating iPhone app for a while. The iPhone also has a camera. Is it even safe to pull the damn thing out in a shop to get a rating, or should we not do that now on the grounds that the owner _might_ think we're trying to take a picture?


Being new and not knowing a lot about cigars/pipes, I naturally need to do a bit of research before purchasing. I pull out my iPhone and look up stuff in my B&Ms (not take pics just look up information) unless one of the employees is giving me suggestions. I have not felt the need to ask permission, but maybe it might not be a bad idea. I can see how it could be misconstrued. Never hurts to err on the side of caution.


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## Z.Kramer (Jul 2, 2009)

Hawnted said:


> Never hurts to err on the side of caution.


This is probably the best input on this thread.



Mitch said:


> I have talked to several people I am friends/family with about it, and they all thought it was weird you thought it was ok to take pictures at a public store. You just don't do that bro, honestly I think its a typical American way of thinking, we should be able to what ever we want because were American


First, I don't see anything unusual about bringing up a curious topic from a forum with friends/family, I do it regularly.

Now, to make a brash sweeping generalization about Americans, and take a shot of every American who read the thread is really not fair. If you want to say that about the OP based on your judgments from his posts in his thread that's one thing, but I think it is just unfair to make that judgment about Americans in general.

All I mean is that I would hope you would give an American, like me for example, the chance to be a decent person before making judgments based only on my "American-ness"


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## la157m3 (Oct 4, 2009)

*John's idea, (Forum name: Nurse Maduro), really paid off. I sent a polite email to the owner of the small chain of tobacco stores describing the incident we've all been discussing and this is how owner Tiffany Rumbo replied:*

"_I am in receipt of your note concerning the method in which you were addressed on a recent visit to the San Pedro location.

Your fellow on-line posters are correct, this is not that level of professionalism for which Club Humidor is known. This location, along with two other Humidor locations, have been under the ownership/management of Club Humidor for a short time and were not a part of the original Club Humidor collection of stores run by my husband, Keith, and myself.

When we acquired these stores we made the decision to retain the employees that occupied the positions held at each location (For some, more than five years.) However, we realized that the level of professionalism would have to be taken to a standard of excellence that did not previously exist. This is something that we have been diligently working toward.

Along with new management came new policies, many of them. The policy of no video or photos within the shops is implemented for various reasons. Often, we are approached with others planning to open retail shops and attempt to take pictures of our stores to expand on their own ideas. We feel as though our design ideas are proprietary and therefore wish them not to be recorded.

However, just this past Saturday, a customer at the same location, ask to take a photo of the cigar store indian and was permitted to do so as long as it was just of the one item and not the store. Your desire to take a picture of a pipe was really not an issue and could have easily been accommodated. This is one of those areas where a well-trained, experienced staff should be able to adjust to policy appropriately. In your case it was the failure of the staff to (i) approach you in an unprofessional-like manner, (ii) offer up valid explanation, (iii) realize this was not the reason the "no photo" policy was established, (iv) and actually open the case to better assist your shopping. Ultimately, the failure is mine and so I must personally apologize. I appreciate you taking the time to contact me regarding this, as it gives me insight on areas in which we need to address.

I hope this reply conveys to you and explanation, not an excuse. For in a world of internet, brick and mortar competition and an economic recession, we understand that customer service is our most treasured asset. Please be assured that I will address this with the store manager and the employees. I would hope that you would consider a return visit to the San Pedro location and, if willing, share with me any experiences you may have that are satisfactory or those that may still need attention.

Again, thank you for taking the time to inform me and allowing me to explain. I hope that I will also have the opportunity to meet you in person and that you will soon see the best of Club Humidor.

Please feel free to contact me at the number below if I can be of further assistance.

Sincerely,

Tiffany Rumbo
Club Humidor
San Antonio, Texas _

*Wow - what a GREAT response from Ms. Rumbo! Completely reasonable and very understandable. She just won herself a repeat monthly customer to a really incredible tobacco store.

Cheers to owner Tiffany Rumbo of Club Humidor, San Antonio, Texas! What a great email in today's seemingly non-existant "customer service" world. Very professional.*


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## Cigary (Oct 19, 2007)

I recently found another 2 cents so I will spend it here. Kudos to this business owner who "gets it!" This addresses every aspect of this discussion and they stepped up 100% to the plate. After reading this letter I'd absolutely do business with them in a hearbeat because of their desire to put the customer first,,even with this minor setback. They are pro active in their approach to take care of things within their business and that speaks volumes as to how they will take care of their customers hopefully in the future.

For those who initially took the P O to task over how he asked the question and what his first response was to what happened you have your answer from the busines owner themself,,,,it was handled incorrectly and they are fixing it. Alls right with the world.:first:



la157m3 said:


> *John's idea, (Forum name: Nurse Maduro), really paid off. I sent a polite email to the owner of the small chain of tobacco stores describing the incident we've all been discussing and this is how owner Tiffany Rumbo replied:*
> 
> "_I am in receipt of your note concerning the method in which you were addressed on a recent visit to the San Pedro location._
> 
> ...


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## Nurse_Maduro (Oct 23, 2008)

la157m3 said:


> *John's idea, (Forum name: Nurse Maduro), really paid off. I sent a polite email to the owner of the small chain of tobacco stores describing the incident we've all been discussing and this is how owner Tiffany Rumbo replied:*
> 
> [MUCH SNIPPED]
> 
> ...


Bravo!!! I can't tell you how happy I am, JD. It's one thing for me to sit here and say "you should do this" but it's another to actually do it. Nice work.

And I'm really glad the article wasn't just a bunch of spin. Congrats!


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## BigKev77 (Feb 16, 2008)

What a great response from the owner. Her "4 points of faliure" of the staff was spot on and she nailed explaining each one. She is totally right about what the B&M vs e-tailer difference is, CUSTOMER SERVICE. Even on a bad day. I wish people would start demanding good customer service again and not brush it off with "they must be having a bad day."

Good job JD and John!


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## Arizona (Jul 19, 2007)

I'm baffled too. Who knows it makes no sense to me, if you're trying to give your wife pipe ideas its harmless to me. It's not like you're taking pics of the customers.


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## Rubix^3 (Nov 10, 2008)

Glad this got resolved--great response from the shop.

On another note; 
After reading through all these pages, I think its time for a new thread:

"Forum Etiquette"


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## baddddmonkey (Oct 13, 2008)

Quote:

Originally Posted by *la157m3*  
_But honestly, what's the difference between taking a couple of cell phone pics of a couple different Toro model lawnmowers at Home Depot or taking a couple of pics of a Stanwell pipe that I'm about to spend the same amount on as a new lawnmower would cost?_





MarkC said:


> Having worked at Home Depot and Target, I can assure you that if you started taking photos in either of these places, you would be asked to stop.


I work at Dillon's (local grocery store) and about once a week, I see people from Walmart come in and walk around the store writing prices down to compare to their prices. There is nothing we can do about it, and our managers see it is a good thing because we are finally able to compete with the big boys!


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## Jumes (Jul 29, 2009)

I really liked that the owner accepted the ultimate responsibility, and apologized for her employees. As for a thread on forum etiquette, I am happy to say this is the first time I have encountered someone on this forum calling another member an idiot. Perhaps they could take a lesson from the shop owner. 

And since I have plenty of opinions to spare I will say that I would never take a picture of a store's products or inside their establishment without asking permission. While the intent may have been to point out a desired product, mom and pop shops realize that a large number of people will just price match and shop online. We tend to forget that while we may only do something like this once, there may have been a hundred people that walk in take a picture and walk out, not buying anything and never to have been seen again. When it is your livelihood, and you see it take a beating everyday due to online merchants, it takes a toll. I am sure that is why a lot of local b&m shops tend to be less courteous than they should to first time walk-ins. 

Perhaps a better way to have handled it, for future reference was to look at the pipe, note the make and model, and then browse online for pictures to show your wife. This way you are doing your due diligence in determining if the price the shop is asking is in line with the fact that they have to pay for rent and inventory. Bear in mind that just because you expect your wife to purchase the pipe there, is no guarantee that she won't buy it elsewhere, in which case the shop has provided you a service with no return. 

Sorry to :deadhorse: :anim_soapbox: off


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## MarkC (Jul 4, 2009)

baddddmonkey said:


> Quote:
> 
> Originally Posted by *la157m3*
> _But honestly, what's the difference between taking a couple of cell phone pics of a couple different Toro model lawnmowers at Home Depot or taking a couple of pics of a Stanwell pipe that I'm about to spend the same amount on as a new lawnmower would cost?_
> ...


Yep. This happens all the time. I'm not sure what it has to do with taking pictures, though...


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## Crazycoonass (Aug 25, 2009)

Yes the snipeing and name calling on this forum got quite out of hand...

Im like the owners response to your letter, I think she handled it the right way.

I'm a butcher at a local grocery store and the only time ive seen anyone takeing a picture in the store was when we had a roasting pig out on display lol "Ewww it still has its eyes" but the manager on duty politely asked them not to take pictures in the store. Personaly I didnt care I wasnt gonna say anything to them.


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## David M (Mar 11, 2009)

la157m3 said:


> Okay, so now that I'm fully engulfed and re-hooked back onto my pipe and my Uncle's pipes 25 years later, I visited my first tobacconist in as many years. Found a place called "The Humidor" in San Antonio, Texas. They say they've been there for decades and they have a really, really nice shop. Half the shop is all their tobac blends, pipe stuff, and several glass display cases on the wall and glass counters. Wide variety of stuff and they carry all the well-known pipes and even some higher-end stuff. Other half of the store is dedicated to cigars and they have a huge walk-in cigar humidor. They also have a smoking room that looks the old style library completely furnished with plush, leather chairs and sofas. Great place, huh?
> 
> First time I went there (couple weeks ago) the guy behind the tobac counter was very helpful, very friendly, showed me around the place. Today, however, that guy wasn't there - only a lady was working.
> 
> ...


I haven't read this whole thread yet but will give my 2 cents anyways.

First off, the level of personal emotion you seem to be having from this store policy is a bit off point imo. I doubt that whatever policy they told you about has anything at all to do with you as a person.
You could have been in there before pulling out your camera and seen them say the exact same thing to someone else doing the cell phone snap and you would have had a better balanced view of this policy.

Who the heck knows why people do what they do. Asking is always nice and finding out why. Sometimes they may have a killer reason and sometimes it may just make no sense at all. I encounter both each and every day and all the time. If I think I have the energy to address their perspective and tell them how I am different and will not do whatever they are hoping to avoid, well, I will give it a shot.

Long story short, under the assumption that they did not suddenly single you out and they are not treating you any different than anyone else, who the heck cares what their policy is all about. You can always easily figure out a simple alternative way to make sure your wife picks the one you like. I am sure that after you would have explained to them what your goal was, they should have offered you a solution. If they dont, then you just ask them to put it aside or something something to make the final end result you are looking for, happen in a slightly different way.

If they continue to display some type of other worldly weird behavior that is uncommon to somewhat normal planet earth, then tell them to take a hike, tell them how they just lost X amount of $$'s and take your business elsewhere.

People are weird. People will always be weird.
They are however rarely being exclusively weird just TO YOU so the emotional connection to the moment shouldn't really be so high imo.
Laugh at them. To their face. Something I do very often.


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## BigKev77 (Feb 16, 2008)

:deadhorse: Poor horse. 


Mustard or cheese?


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