# A Lesson in Customer Service, or, "Why I Quit Cigars International"



## usafvet509 (Oct 21, 2013)

So, 

A while back, I was engaged in some bidding on CI's Make Me An Offer program. I was bidding on the CAO Dream Team Sampler, which was priced regularly at $29.99. I bid $20/unit for 2, and was denied. Hmm, ok, I can bend a little... 2 units @ $25 each. Denied again? :hmm: 
I have run into this issue before with these guys. I had at this point had my fill. I deleted my account, and requested a stop on the catalogs. I was not asked why, if there was something they could do to keep my business, etc. Later on, I contacted them by email, saying if they wanted to keep my business, they would tend to and resolve my grievance.
I called to clarify. The lady I spoke with politely asked what the issue was. I informed her, and said that if they wanted to retain my business, I wanted what I had bid on, 2 units of CAO Dream Team Sampler @ $25 each. She took my number, and said she would pass my offer to "management". A week later.....
Still no answer. Ok, then, CI, here's YOUR answer from me. My wallet is now closed to you!

Folks, there is these days a HUGE deficit in customer service everywhere you look. Pick and choose your battles, I guess, but I can't stomach that kind of treatment. That kind of poor customer service is why I quit Medals of America, too. Do they not realize that THEY need US, not the other way around??? :rant: :mad2: :yell: :tape2:


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## Fuzzy (Jun 19, 2011)

I am not understanding your reason for quitting.

Is it because you did not get the deal you wanted? CI has the make offer but does not have to approve your offer. Sometimes you win, sometimes not. Just like an auction, the winner is the one who bids the highest. When you do not win, you try again.


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## jp1979 (Sep 12, 2013)

Trent do not take this the wrong way but, demanding them to accept your bid to keep your business is a little over the top. How much money have you spent with them, not on the auction site? I hate to break the news to you buddy, but I am not quite sure that you have enough clout to pull that shit. And truth be told, If I wasn't going to fold to your demands, I wouldn't call you back either.


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## Drez_ (Jan 30, 2014)

You do realize that when you're entering the Make an Offer section of the website, all sales prices are void and not taken into consideration when offering for any product listed?

The MSRP of the sampler you were offering on is listed at 69.34 - This is the price they take into consideration when dealing with offers via the MAO listings. The 29.99 price, while it may be what they have listed at - is usually inclusive of sales and/or clearance to move the items. At already over 50% discount from the MSRP, they are not likely to move the price down more for MAO deals..

Simply put, $30 is the cheapest you will get that item. Even if you MAO of $35, you're not likely to get it as they base it on a percentage rate from the MSRP..and you won't win many items at a 50% discount either. Your better chances are at 30% high end, and lower from there.


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## defetis (Jan 5, 2014)

This made me laugh, thanks guys:loco:

YOU DONT MAKE YOUR OWN PRICE.


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## zoey (Nov 17, 2013)

jp1979 said:


> Trent do not take this the wrong way but, demanding them to accept your bid to keep your business is a little over the top. How much money have you spent with them, not on the auction site? I hate to break the news to you buddy, but I am not quite sure that you have enough clout to pull that shit. And truth be told, If I wasn't going to fold to your demands, I wouldn't call you back either.


If they want to keep this customer they should....


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## Drez_ (Jan 30, 2014)

zoey said:


> If they want to keep this customer they should....


While every customer should be valued, there has to be a limit on what you can and will do as a niche business to stay profitable. An item already at a half-off discounted price being DEMANDED at a lower price or threatening to never do business with you again? I certainly wouldn't have.


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## Kasanova King (Jun 8, 2014)




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## SeanTheEvans (Dec 13, 2013)

opcorn:opcorn:opcorn:opcorn:opcorn:opcorn:opcorn:opcorn:opcorn:opcorn:opcorn:opcorn:opcorn:


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## zoey (Nov 17, 2013)

Drez_ said:


> While every customer should be valued, there has to be a limit on what you can and will do as a niche business to stay profitable. An item already at a half-off discounted price being DEMANDED at a lower price or threatening to never do business with you again? I certainly wouldn't have.


I would have given the discount that one time....think of the story we would be hearing now instead of what we see....everyone who sees the positive story it is the gift that keeps on giving.


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## zoey (Nov 17, 2013)

Kasanova King said:


>


LOL


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## llappen (Jul 24, 2014)




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## jp1979 (Sep 12, 2013)

zoey said:


> If they want to keep this customer they should....


I disagree, a customer demanding them to sell him something that is already on sale for less would make me think twice about keeping them as a customer. On the other side of the coin, if said customer has purchased multiple items at full retail price, yes I would give it to them. As sad as it may sound, some companies don't need your business. Also, there are good customers and bad customers, when I was running the Infiniti dealership, there was a guy that would bring his car in for free car washes, demand that his be done first and would bitch n' moan if it took to long. I went to talk to the service manager about it and we pulled up his service history with the dealership, only to find out that the guy had done 3 oil changes at our dealership in a 4 year period. I asked him politely not to return to the dealership again. I didn't need his business, so I let him walk. The drama that the guy created for the $180 over 4 years, wasn't worth it.


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## Sigaar (Sep 19, 2014)

jp1979 said:


> And truth be told, If I wasn't going to fold to your demands, I wouldn't call you back either.


I avoid places like that...that don't even respond to a complaint, even if they plan to do zip about it.


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## jp1979 (Sep 12, 2013)

zoey said:


> I would have given the discount that one time....think of the story we would be hearing now instead of what we see....everyone who sees the positive story it is the gift that keeps on giving.


Don't think for a second that anyone is going to stop ordering from them because of this post.


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## usafvet509 (Oct 21, 2013)

1) I have NEVER paid listed catalog/site price on MMAO. 
2) Yes, you can make your own price, because you decide to buy or not. Thats the beauty of capitalism.
3) The lack of service that chafes me most is the lack of SORRY. As in, "We're sorry you're dissatisfied. What can we do to fix this?"

I don't really know what to say, y'all. You think that's funny? You think it's unrealistic to expect courteous treatment from someone who happily takes any amount of your hard-earned money you are willing to part with?


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## jp1979 (Sep 12, 2013)

usafvet509 said:


> 1) I have NEVER paid listed catalog/site price on MMAO.
> 2) Yes, you can make your own price, because you decide to buy or not. Thats the beauty of capitalism.
> 3) The lack of service that chafes me most is the lack of SORRY. As in, "We're sorry you're dissatisfied. What can we do to fix this?"
> 
> I don't really know what to say, y'all. You think that's funny? You think it's unrealistic to expect courteous treatment from someone who happily takes any amount of your hard-earned money you are willing to part with?


1. Did you try $26?
2. They also can decide whether to sell or not. Beauty of capitalism?
3. If they would have said sorry but still not given you the samplers, would you have made this post?

I don't think anyone is laughing at you Trent, I am pretty sure some find your reaction a little extreme. You cancelled your account after they denied your offer twice. Then you email, then you call them. I understand that you expect courteous treatment from a company that you buy stuff from, but you act like they owe you more than that. I will say it again, IF they would have said sorry but denied your demand for the cigars, would you still have made this post?


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## c.ortiz108 (Nov 16, 2013)

I think courtesy to a customer should always be top priority, even if the customer is wrong. That means responding to complaints and explaining the situation.


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## SeanTheEvans (Dec 13, 2013)

jp1979 said:


> 1. Did you try $26?
> 2. They also can decide whether to sell or not. Beauty of capitalism?
> 3. If they would have said sorry but still not given you the samplers, would you have made this post?
> 
> I don't think anyone is laughing at you Trent, I am pretty sure some find your reaction a little extreme. You cancelled your account after they denied your offer twice. Then you email, then you call them. I understand that you expect courteous treatment from a company that you buy stuff from, but you act like they owe you more than that. I will say it again, IF they would have said sorry but denied your demand for the cigars, would you still have made this post?


I still don't see why any apology is needed... should I call up Nordstrom right now and demand they sell me their new Fall Jacket for $40 when it's listed for $90 at their site? What about calling Holt's and telling them that you will no longer order from them because the price they charge for Padron cigars is too high, in my opinion?

I don't see what anyone did "wrong" here in the first place still...

If I'm dissatisfied as a customer, and it's because I want to purchase items cheaper than they want to sell them, then I'm not sure they have any reason to answer me. It's probably my job to find somewhere else to shop or to develop more realistic expectations.

Customer service is always a priority in my mind as well, but I feel as though this falls outside of that range. Maybe I'm wrong and should take a walk to the nearest Corvette dealer though, explain to them my financial situation and why they must sell me a vette for what I want to pay, not what they need to charge to remain a viable business.


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## Sigaar (Sep 19, 2014)

c.ortiz108 said:


> I think courtesy to a customer should always be top priority, even if the customer is wrong. That means responding to complaints and explaining the situation.


I agree 100%. I used to manage a call center years ago, and if I had a nickel for every unreasonable customer I had to speak with. We always did what we could, but sometimes couldn't please them. That said, we ALWAYS called people back. Blowing off customers is very poor customer service IMO.


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## Mikkrulz (Jun 19, 2014)

usafvet509 said:


> 1) I have NEVER paid listed catalog/site price on MMAO.
> 2) Yes, you can make your own price, because you decide to buy or not. Thats the beauty of capitalism.
> 3) The lack of service that chafes me most is the lack of SORRY. As in, "We're sorry you're dissatisfied. What can we do to fix this?"
> 
> I don't really know what to say, y'all. You think that's funny? You think it's unrealistic to expect courteous treatment from someone who happily takes any amount of your hard-earned money you are willing to part with?


See, this is what's wrong with America. Me me me. Yes customer service is important. Very much so. But so is being a good customer. Like said about the Infinity dealership. 3 oil changes does not give you clout. You yourself have admitted you've never paid retail, there goes any clout you thought you had. The flip side to your beauty of capitalism is that they don't have to accept your low ball offer of an already low balled price. Tell you what, go buy a $30,000 dollar car. Sell it a year later, are you going to get your $30k? Obviously not, so you list it at, let's say $15k, 50% off MSRP. You're already taking a large loss on the car. Now some cat comes along and offers you $10k. Are you seriously going to take that offer? Hell no! You're going to be insulted and call the guy a lowballer and all sorts of colorful metaphors, and tell him to eff off. Now let's look at the smokes. $70 MSRP. Sale for $30, more than 50% off. You enter a bid where sale price then becomes void, and expect to offer even more off? I understand trying to save a buck, but that's plain ol being a cheap @$$. Hell, my budget is pretty tight, But I'm not going to insult them.
That being said, yes, they should have asked you how can they help, what can they do. They should have tried to reach a resolution. That's on them. But being unrealistic is on you, my friend. Capitalism doesn't revolve around how cheap you can buy something, it's about making money. And if you're not making them any money, then no, they don't need your 3 car washes in 4 years business...

Not trying to be a jerk dude, but that's my $.02


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## usafvet509 (Oct 21, 2013)

Justin, the answer is no, I would not have. I posted this to highlight the lack of response I got. A response, even a "sorry, no" coupled with an explanation would have sufficed.


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## jp1979 (Sep 12, 2013)

usafvet509 said:


> Justin, the answer is no, I would not have. I posted this to highlight the lack of response I got. A response, even a "sorry, no" coupled with an explanation would have sufficed.


But they don't owe you an explanation, its their business. NO, is the only explanation necessary.


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## Shemp75 (May 26, 2012)

jp1979 said:


> I don't think anyone is laughing at you Trent


oh i am! :lol:


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## SeanTheEvans (Dec 13, 2013)

usafvet509 said:


> Justin, the answer is no, I would not have. I posted this to highlight the lack of response I got. A response, even a "sorry, no" coupled with an explanation would have sufficed.


If you were denied the MMAO, that was your "no". The explanation was obvious, it was too low an offer. I'm still missing why there was conflict. That IS how MMAO works, it's not like something was broken.

I mean, *every* time MMAO says "no", isn't the explanation always the same? You need to go higher?


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## droy1958 (Sep 3, 2014)

They should at least call back and tell you no, hell no or kiss my @$$...


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## jp1979 (Sep 12, 2013)

droy1958 said:


> They should at least call back and tell you no, hell no or kiss my @$$...


I think that is the only answer they have come up with so they aren't going to.


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## DogRockets (Oct 2, 2014)

I'm not seeing the big deal here either - of course no offense to the original poster. I've used the MMAO feature many, many times. Sometimes they accept, sometimes they decline. More declines than acceptances in my experience. It's nothing personal on either side. Some offers I made that I thought were good got turned down. Some offers I made that I thought were low balls were accepted. Just the way it goes.


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## Sigaar (Sep 19, 2014)

jp1979 said:


> But they don't owe you an explanation, its their business. NO, is the only explanation necessary.


Poor response. A business does owe a response to a customer reaching out to them.


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## jp1979 (Sep 12, 2013)

Sigaar said:


> Poor response. A business does owe a response to a customer reaching out to them.


Did you negative ring gauge me? If you read his post, he is clearly stating that not only does he expect them to say sorry, but he also wants an explanation as to why they did not accept his bid. Don't negative RG me because you don't know how to read homie.


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## zoey (Nov 17, 2013)

jp1979 said:


> Don't think for a second that anyone is going to stop ordering from them because of this post.


Hate to break it to you but I am not going to order from them any longer because of this post.


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## jp1979 (Sep 12, 2013)

zoey said:


> Hate to break it to you but I am not going to order from them any longer because of this post.


Really? We are talking about someone being upset because they didn't accept a lowball offer on 2 10 packs of 3 dollar cigars


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## Sigaar (Sep 19, 2014)

jp1979 said:


> Did you negative ring gauge me? If you read his post, he is clearly stating that not only does he expect them to say sorry, but he also wants an explanation as to why they did not accept his bid. Don't negative RG me because you don't know how to read homie.


I did. I just don't agree with your customer service philosophy. No matter whether OP was right or wrong isn't the point. You seem to think when you disagree with a complaining customer, you simply blow them off. I was in management for many years and don't agree with that method...at all. So that's why I neg repped you.


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## SeanTheEvans (Dec 13, 2013)

Sigaar said:


> I did. I just don't agree with your customer service philosophy. No matter whether OP was right or wrong isn't the point. You seem to think when you disagree with a complaining customer, you simply blow them off. I was in management for many years and don't agree with that method...at all. So that's why I neg repped you.


That's not how it's supposed to work... I don't think you're supposed to neg rep people because you don't agree with them. It's more for when people act badly out of line or do something wrong within the community. Not as an argumentative tool.

Just sayin....


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## anthony d (May 10, 2014)

The customer isn't always right, and they should not be treated as though they are in my opinion, but then again, that is why I don't work in a customer service industry...

For every poor customer service complaint, there are 1000 great customer service experiences that go untold.


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## usafvet509 (Oct 21, 2013)

Lol, Justin, you've become the Bad Guy again!! oke: Wasn't me, dude, we may disagree , but we're cool as far I see it


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## jp1979 (Sep 12, 2013)

Sigaar said:


> I did. I just don't agree with your customer service philosophy. No matter whether OP was right or wrong isn't the point. You seem to think when you disagree with a complaining customer, you simply blow them off. I was in management for many years and don't agree with that method...at all. So that's why I neg repped you.


Like I said, you obviously can't read, the post you neg repped me on says nothing of the sort. His post says they should tell me "sorry, no" coupled with an explanation.... My post simple pointed out that they don't owe him an explanation as to why they said no. I really could careless about the neg rep, my RG is a rollercoaster anyway because I tell it like it is.


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## stealthpenguin (Oct 2, 2014)




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## Sigaar (Sep 19, 2014)

SeanTheEvans said:


> That's not how it's supposed to work... I don't think you're supposed to neg rep people because you don't agree with them. It's more for when people act badly out of line or do something wrong within the community. Not as an argumentative tool.
> 
> Just sayin....


Don't know about that, but he asked, so I decided to answer the question.


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## JustinThyme (Jun 17, 2013)

zoey said:


> Hate to break it to you but I am not going to order from them any longer because of this post.


I dont deal with them any longer either but not because of this post.

Firstly Cbid doesn't list premiums any longer. Everything they have now is not something in my rotation at all, none of it.

Secondly but probably most importantly I had a run in with them myself about a year ago where their packing practices caused damaged sticks on two consecutive orders. On the first one they sent out replacements and filed a claim with UPS blaming it on them although the pics I sent showed it had nothing to do with UPS. The second shipment I was less than pleasant for having two high dollar orders in a row with damaged goods due to piss poor packing and their response was to suspend my account.


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## jp1979 (Sep 12, 2013)

usafvet509 said:


> Lol, Justin, you've become the Bad Guy again!! oke: Wasn't me, dude, we may disagree , but we're cool as far I see it


I know who it was. We cool Trent, we agree to disagree. I will just stay far far away from you and Steve's pellet gun until this whole thing blows over.... LMAO


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## Sigaar (Sep 19, 2014)

jp1979 said:


> Like I said, you obviously can't read, the post you neg repped me on says nothing of the sort. His post says they should tell me "sorry, no" coupled with an explanation.... My post simple pointed out that they don't owe him an explanation as to why they said no. I really could careless about the neg rep, my RG is a rollercoaster anyway because I tell it like it is.


We're going to have to agree to disagree. I didn't like your responses. I'll leave it at that.

I do agree with you about Rep points and RG though, I'm on a few forums and never worry about that fluff!


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## jp1979 (Sep 12, 2013)

Sigaar said:


> We're going to have to agree to disagree. I didn't like your responses. I'll leave it at that.
> 
> I do agree with you about Rep points and RG though, I'm on a few forums and never worry about that fluff!


Whatevzzzz.... lol


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## Goatmilk (Jan 2, 2012)

The audacity of places like this! I quit doing business with sites that offered these services long ago when they would not let me enter negative bids for products such as Gurkha. I received no explanation as well.


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## TonyAccardo (Oct 2, 2014)

I agree with the majority here. They're a huge business. They don't have time to answer back to these small, rather inane demands of why they didn't accept your bid. 

I am in agreement that you should try to resolve or at least explain your position IF the opportunity comes up that you get face time/talk time with the customer but they don't need to honor your demand to keep your business! Not in the least. This reminds me of those idiots that come into Hardcore Pawn and demand that they get the price for their piece of junk jewelry and ain't leavin' till their demand is met. 

I own/ run a business where we provide a product to customers and it gets ridiculous with some clients and there have been a handful that I have told to take a hike over the years because they're more pain in the a $$ than they're worth or have spent with me. It's always the cheap, complaining clients that want the deal of the century (translated: almost free) and have NO respect for the fellow trying to run a business and turn a profit. If its someone who has spent a good deal with me and we've made money by dealing with each other over the years of course ill give them a better deal than the jerk who's a constant cheap bastard. There are people out there who seem to have this innate belief that no one is supposed to make a damn dime, yet expect the red carpet rolled out for them, an explanation for everything that doesn't suit their liking, and to me, not only are these some of the most unlikable people in the world, but they are people no one wants to deal with in the short run let along the long run.

And for the people that are saying you are wrong for thinking this way and the customer is always right, I'm sorry, it's not 1939 anymore. There are much more people in the world, values have changed and you have to change along with that because if I went by the credo of the customer is always right, I'd be out of business. I'll leave that thought with a few quotes by a very wise man.

"A man who is used to acting one way never changes; he must come to ruin when times, in changing, no longer are in harmony with his ways."

"Whosoever desires constant success must change his conduct with the times."

And one of my favorites

"How we live is so different from how we ought to live that he who studies what ought to be done rather than what is done will learn the way to his downfall rather than to his preservation."


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## purepoker (Sep 15, 2011)

I was inspired after reading this thread. I called my boss and asked for a 50% raise. He said no. I figured "ok, I'll budge a little", and offered 45%. He said no. I flat out quit! I'm calling HR on him tomorrow and telling on him...


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## Tobias Lutz (Feb 18, 2013)

c.ortiz108 said:


> I think courtesy to a customer should always be top priority, even if the customer is wrong. That means responding to complaints and explaining the situation.


I wouldn't call him a customer because he didn't buy anything. He's a "potential" customer. (and NO, having bought stuff before does not entitle you to a hissy-fit over a transaction that has not yet taken place) You ALWAYS owe a response to someone who has paid you for a good or service, you don't necessarily owe anything when a transaction has not taken place. If they can (or want) to do without his business...that's their business.



Mikkrulz said:


> See, this is what's wrong with America. Me me me. Yes customer service is important. Very much so. But so is being a good customer.


Amen- it works both ways folks :nod:



jp1979 said:


> But they don't owe you an explanation, its their business. NO, is the only explanation necessary.


^^^this



Sigaar said:


> Poor response. A business does owe a response to a customer reaching out to them.


I don't think they do is all situations. I've been in the hospitality industry for 15 years and I learned a long time ago that you don't throw your pearls before swine. If you run your business well and take care of reasonable customers you can EASILY afford to do without the unreasonable ones ever returning.

Trent- I am sorry that you didn't get the smokes you wanted. Hopefully you can find them from somewhere else.


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## zoey (Nov 17, 2013)

jp1979 said:


> But they don't owe you an explanation, its their business. NO, is the only explanation necessary.


That is true if you don't like customers and repeat business.


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## zoey (Nov 17, 2013)

purepoker said:


> I was inspired after reading this thread. I called my boss and asked for a 50% raise. He said no. I figured "ok, I'll budge a little", and offered 45%. He said no. I flat out quit! I'm calling HR on him tomorrow and telling on him...


Terrible analogy.


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## jp1979 (Sep 12, 2013)

zoey said:


> That is true if you don't like customers and repeat business.


:deadhorse:


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## jpalamar (Sep 7, 2014)




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## zoey (Nov 17, 2013)

jp1979 said:


> Really? We are talking about someone being upset because they didn't accept a lowball offer on 2 10 packs of 3 dollar cigars


I generally don't give my money to companies which clearly do not value their customers....same reason I don't shop at walmart....well one of them at least...lol.


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## egoo33 (Jul 21, 2013)

after reading this thread some of these post well....


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## egoo33 (Jul 21, 2013)

Honestly though CI/General is one of the biggest boys in town if you come in thinking you're swinging big dick they'll promptly show you the door and tell you to have a nice life. Whatever sales you would have with them a drop in their bucket and people will continue to feed the beast long after you're gone


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## Sigaar (Sep 19, 2014)

egoo33 said:


> Honestly though CI/General is one of the biggest boys in town if you come in thinking you're swinging big dick they'll promptly show you the door and tell you to have a nice life. Whatever sales you would have with them a drop in their bucket and people will continue to feed the beast long after you're gone


Nice


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## egoo33 (Jul 21, 2013)

Sigaar said:


> Nice


do what i can


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## Sigaar (Sep 19, 2014)

Keep the neg reps coming. Don't care...poor attitude towards customers isn't acceptable. I'm going to depart this thread, just a little (or maybe a lot) less positive about Puff, not because some of you are neg repping me (don't care about that), but because of the attitude that it's okay to basically ignore a customer/potential customer inquiry or complaint. I'm self-employed and just don't get treating people that way. My wife and I are pretty successful, and customer service is a big reason why. If I handled our more difficult customers the way some of you propose, we'd be far less successful...and yes, this includes people that haven't spent a dime yet. I know what works, because that has what has made us successful self-employed business owners. Take it however you want, but that's the truth.


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## SeanTheEvans (Dec 13, 2013)

egoo33 said:


> do what i can


as you very well should :wink:

because erryone luvz gifs


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## jp1979 (Sep 12, 2013)

Sigaar said:


> Keep the neg reps coming


Woahhhhhh, guys. No need to neg rep the man, we had our disagreement and he neg repped me. I appreciate you guys having my back if that's why you are doing it but the argument is done and over. We have agreed to disagree. Lets not sour the man's stay on the site even farther because of a little controversy.


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## egoo33 (Jul 21, 2013)

Its one thing to have customer service issues about receiving a package that was damaged or something sent incorrectly, it's something totally different when you say hey here's $20 give me this sampler that has an MSRP of $70 or I'm never buying from you again. CI is not a mom and pop store that will give you a break for being a regular, like it or not that's just how it is


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## egoo33 (Jul 21, 2013)

SeanTheEvans said:


> as you very well should :wink:
> 
> because erryone luvz gifs










my guy


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## dj1340 (Mar 30, 2009)

Ok gents, neg rep is going a bit far just because you don't agree with someone. Lets all put our big boy pants on and act like adults here.
If you don't agree with a company's policy then that's your business, it's a personal decision. 
I will leave this open only if the flame throwing stops. Business' operate on different levels, we need to understand that and if that's their
decision then so be it. Be just a little open minded about the whole thing.


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## jp1979 (Sep 12, 2013)

This cracks me up, every single time a mod jumps in to stop the fray, the thread turns into a cricket concert.


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## egoo33 (Jul 21, 2013)

im still looking for gifs


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## SeanTheEvans (Dec 13, 2013)

egoo33 said:


> im still looking for gifs


leyke deez wun?


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## egoo33 (Jul 21, 2013)

its too big a pita to do it on my ipad but youre on my list son


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## egoo33 (Jul 21, 2013)

this thread is turning into myspace circa 2005 and i only have myself to blame feel free to hang that on me


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## Billb1960 (Oct 10, 2014)

*posted from my iPad


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## stealthpenguin (Oct 2, 2014)

SeanTheEvans said:


> leyke deez wun?


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## egoo33 (Jul 21, 2013)

Billb1960 said:


> *posted from my iPad


this guy.... is my kinda guy


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## demuths1770 (Jan 2, 2014)

Sigaar said:


> I avoid places like that...that don't even respond to a complaint, even if they plan to do zip about it.


How is it a complaint?????? He lost on a bidding site. That would be like complaining to eBay because you lost a bid. Now if he ordered cigars from cigars international got the wrong cigars called to complain and didnt hear back thats different but really????


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## Redwyvern (Aug 6, 2013)

usafvet509 said:


> I have run into this issue before with these guys.


2 losing bids is not an "issue", it's the luck of the draw. And, this wasn't the first time. You knew how this thing worked.



usafvet509 said:


> I had at this point had my fill. I deleted my account, and requested a stop on the catalogs.


Not exactly the kind of behaviour I'd teach my children, but ok, so now you are no longer a customer of theirs.



usafvet509 said:


> I was not asked why, if there was something they could do to keep my business, etc.


You weren't adding anything to their business by making the offers you made, so they had no interest in keeping your "business".



usafvet509 said:


> Later on, I contacted them by email, saying if they wanted to keep my business, they would tend to and resolve my grievance.


Your "grievance" was as unreasonable as your bids were.



usafvet509 said:


> I called to clarify. The lady I spoke with politely asked what the issue was. I informed her, and said that if they wanted to retain my business, I wanted what I had bid on, 2 units of CAO Dream Team Sampler @ $25 each.


So now the customer who is no longer a customer is making demands, and setting his own pricing.



usafvet509 said:


> My wallet is now closed to you!


Sorry, but their doors are still open, their parent company has 2013 sales in excess of 1 billion dollars.



usafvet509 said:


> Folks, there is these days a HUGE deficit in customer service you look. Pick and choose your battles, I guess,


Actually, there's a HUGE upswing in Self-Entitlement these days. Oh, and this wasn't a battle, this was a classic case of Bullying. You demanded, threatened, and tried to coerce this company. You should be ashamed.

P.S., I've worked Customer Service type jobs all my life. Not too long ago I was an Executive Escalations Analyst. I handled complaints from Attorney General offices, Public Service Commissions, Public Utility Commissions, and the BBB. The customer is NOT always right.


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## Gdaddy (Sep 20, 2012)

> Originally Posted by usafvet509
> 
> I called to clarify. The lady I spoke with politely asked what the issue was. I informed her, and said that if they wanted to retain my business, I wanted what I had bid on, 2 units of CAO Dream Team Sampler @ $25 each.


I totally agree with Redwyvern.

It's pretty clear that you felt as though your bid was adequate and should be accepted. You called them in hopes that "the squeaky wheel will get some grease" so you tried threatening them with "if you want to retain my business". I'm glad it didn't work. You didn't deserve a discount.

You said she was polite to you yet for some reason you wanted more. That politeness wasn't good enough. You want a return call so you could whine some more and maybe try a different threatening angle to see if that would get the price you want.

I'm glad they don't pander to the demands of people trying to get an additional discount for no reason. This is really 'bad form' on your part as you acted as if you were the important God almighty customer. Instead of wasting time calling you back they should be taking care of their paying customers which by the way, they do an excellent job.

This is no way for YOU or anyone else to do business with any company large or small.


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## zoey (Nov 17, 2013)

The common thread in the comments on this topic I find a little disturbing. The company at a MINIMUM should have replied to him and said "Sorry your bid was high enough to be accepted but we have many other items which you may find to your liking."

They could have taken the extra step and granted the discount and accepted the offer and moved the product. In turn creating some goodwill which may have ended up on this board. Instead we have several people saying usafvet509 is a bad customer....

I don't think asking for a reply makes a potential customer a bad customer. All of this entitlement stuff I find amusing. it is the nature of the beast these days. If you want to clutch to the old ways that is your choice. Just don't whine when the train of progress passes you by filled with customers.


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## jimmyv723 (Jul 2, 2014)

The whole coupon warrior age has created issues like this. Some people just aren't happy with an already good deal and try and get things as cheap as they can just so they can say to themselves and everyone else, Hey look at the awesome deal I just scored. Businesses are around to make money first and foremost. We all appreciate great Customer Service but we have to remember that we also have to be good customers. I have had my own CI issues and have not bought anything from them since that experience but I would never expect other people to stop using them just because of my issues. People need to form their own opinions of a business and stop using the excuse of how something happened to that guy so I'm just going somewhere else.

To me being that the item in question is already at a great price of $29 or $30 on a regular basis than maybe it was a bad idea for them to put it on the MMAO to begin with. As already stated that portion of the site goes off the MSRP and not special prices on the site. I understand wanting to save some money but to have this type of reaction over basically $1 a cigar is pretty over the top. Not to mention that the customer just flat out cancelled their account. They didn't give CI a reason for a week and then wanted to make demands. Perhaps just saying right from the start what the issue was could have kept all of this from happening. Losing your cool like that and then expecting the world in return is definitely not the best way to get what you want.


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## demuths1770 (Jan 2, 2014)

i work in customer service myself and dont take kind to threats of you will give me this or else, especially since it was a bid. thats the way bidding goses. the seller sets the price so be it. so you where unhappy becasuse you couldnt get the item at the price you wanted. how is that THERE fault???


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## MDSPHOTO (Sep 10, 2013)

"Some people just aren't happy with an already good deal and try and get things as cheap as they can just so they can say to themselves and everyone else, Hey look at the awesome deal I just scored."

Isn't this why internet forums were created, to brag about that amazing deal you got on a cigar, car, house, chainsaw, etc.?:roll:


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## Yarddog (Mar 15, 2014)

I've run a small service business in a small town for 22 years, at one time full time, now part time. To succeed in a small town, you've got to have above average customer service, and although I don't advertise at all, I still stay busy by customer referrals. Guess my customer service is okay...

That said, I have always had one policy with regard to this issue of 'customer service'...and that is...if I don't like you, I won't work for you. It's a simple deal. Not all customers are worth having, not all customers are worth keeping. Will I remain courteous in the face of disrespect and rudeness. No. I will not. The same thing goes for the place where I work now. I have a limit, and NO! The customer is not always correct.

For those folks who have suggested that CI should have given in to the OP's demands, I tell you that one of the reasons that we have so many entitled people in our society today...eg 'The Millenial Generation'...is because my generation has done just that! I doubt very much if the OP's business, whatever it was, was worth a long discussion with a customer service rep. He lost, he's pissed, what more needs to be said? Not everything we do in our lives has to be spread around the Interweb. 

Is my response harsh? Oh yeah. Am I gonna back down to keep somebody happy? Nope. Not flamin' anybody here, but a topic like this engenders lively discussion.


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## Nature (Jul 30, 2012)

zoey said:


> I don't think asking for a reply makes a potential customer a bad customer. All of this entitlement stuff I find amusing. it is the nature of the beast these days. If you want to clutch to the old ways that is your choice. Just don't whine when the train of progress passes you by filled with customers.


How is an entitlement attitude "progress"? It the type of behavior I witnessed from my kids when they were toddlers. Seems like those with the entitlement attitudes are the ones doing the whining.


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## jp1979 (Sep 12, 2013)

zoey said:


> I don't think asking for a reply makes a potential customer a bad customer. All of this entitlement stuff I find amusing. it is the nature of the beast these days. If you want to clutch to the old ways that is your choice. Just don't whine when the train of progress passes you by filled with customers.


I don't think throwing a tantrum, deleting your account, sending them emails then calling them, making demands and expecting an explanation as to why they won't meet them, makes you a good customer either. They gave him his explanation twice when they denied his bids.


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## Emperor Zurg (May 6, 2013)

Ugh! Did I really read this thread? All six pages of it? Why? WHYWHYWHY!!!
Did I even type a reply? Aaauugghh!!!


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## garublador (Jun 5, 2014)

Gdaddy said:


> I'm glad they don't pander to the demands of people trying to get an additional discount for no reason. This is really 'bad form' on your part as you acted as if you were the important God almighty customer. Instead of wasting time calling you back they should be taking care of their paying customers which by the way, they do an excellent job.
> 
> This is no way for YOU or anyone else to do business with any company large or small.


I agree with this, too. I'm more likely to shop at a place that spends its time helping actual customers rather than pandering to the type of behavior the OP exhibited. Customer service is a two way street. You have to be a good customer if you want to expect good customer service. Deleting your account and then making demands on what they have to do to get you back is not what good customers do. It's what people who want free stuff do. They also don't cancel service expecting to get something. If I cancel my service I don't want to go though a big runaround, I want my service cancelled. The OP is mad that they did what he requested, which is good customer service.

A good customer would have asked why his super low ball bids were not accepted, as if it weren't obvious.


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## LostMason (Oct 13, 2014)

Yarddog said:


> I've run a small service business in a small town for 22 years, at one time full time, now part time. To succeed in a small town, you've got to have above average customer service, and although I don't advertise at all, I still stay busy by customer referrals. Guess my customer service is okay...
> 
> That said, I have always had one policy with regard to this issue of 'customer service'...and that is...if I don't like you, I won't work for you. It's a simple deal. Not all customers are worth having, not all customers are worth keeping. Will I remain courteous in the face of disrespect and rudeness. No. I will not. The same thing goes for the place where I work now. I have a limit, and NO! The customer is not always correct.
> 
> ...


+1 I have also trimmed the customer list due to customers who thought I should work for free,,,cann't give em anything but they want more,,,,


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## stonecutter2 (Jul 12, 2012)

Drez_ said:


> You do realize that when you're entering the Make an Offer section of the website, all sales prices are void and not taken into consideration when offering for any product listed?
> 
> The MSRP of the sampler you were offering on is listed at 69.34 - This is the price they take into consideration when dealing with offers via the MAO listings. The 29.99 price, while it may be what they have listed at - is usually inclusive of sales and/or clearance to move the items. At already over 50% discount from the MSRP, they are not likely to move the price down more for MAO deals..
> 
> Simply put, $30 is the cheapest you will get that item. Even if you MAO of $35, you're not likely to get it as they base it on a percentage rate from the MSRP..and you won't win many items at a 50% discount either. Your better chances are at 30% high end, and lower from there.


This means that the MMAO is totally worthless to even post.

So, I just want to add this (and someone else likely already has in all these pages).

If the MSRP is $69, that means nothing. Gurkha MSRP is like $1000 per cigar, but buy now because they're on sale for only $2.50 each! Whoa!!

If they're selling, retail, at $29.99, then $25 each is NOT an unreasonable offer. You would be a foolish individual to offer $35 for something selling retail at $29.99 - and who knows, maybe that's why they bother with their make an offer page.

I gave up on wasting time with the MMAO on CI a long time ago. I ran into similar rejections of fair offers, never understood why, and could care less.

My general beef with CI is not MMAO, but rather the poor state of their shipping dept - I shifted my business to Famous Smoke and my B&M, and it works for me. YMMV.


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## stonecutter2 (Jul 12, 2012)

SeanTheEvans said:


> I still don't see why any apology is needed... should I call up Nordstrom right now and demand they sell me their new Fall Jacket for $40 when it's listed for $90 at their site? What about calling Holt's and telling them that you will no longer order from them because the price they charge for Padron cigars is too high, in my opinion?
> 
> I don't see what anyone did "wrong" here in the first place still...
> 
> ...


Nordstrom doesn't have a "make an offer" section. And if they did, and they had a jacket in the MAO section sitting there, the SAME jacket selling on a rack across the store MSRP of $90 on sale for $50, would you offer $50? If so, why not just get it off the rack and stop wasting time in the MAO section?

You'd try to get a little bit of a deal. Let's say $40. If they're soliciting offers to get rid of it, seems like they're trying to offer the chance to get a deal. Why squander that?


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## stonecutter2 (Jul 12, 2012)

jp1979 said:


> Really? We are talking about someone being upset because they didn't accept a lowball offer on 2 10 packs of 3 dollar cigars


It wasn't a lowball offer.

$25 for a $29.99 pack of cigars is a 16.6% discount. That's hardly "lowball."


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## jp1979 (Sep 12, 2013)

stonecutter2 said:


> It wasn't a lowball offer.
> 
> $25 for a $29.99 pack of cigars is a 16.6% discount. That's hardly "lowball."


Except that it was already discounted from $69.99.


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## stonecutter2 (Jul 12, 2012)

jp1979 said:


> Except that it was already discounted from $69.99.


On their retail site it was "discounted" from $69.99 to $29.99. And the item was also in the Make An Offer section.

Gurkha has proved without a shadow of a doubt that MSRP is meaningless. It always has been. MSRP's are manipulated to create a sense of value or a "good deal." That is why a car has a sticker price, which I hope you didn't pay. A $36,000 car that I can get for only $28,500? Where do I sign for this fabulous deal! I really pulled one over on that car dealer, what a sucker!

What did the car dealer really pay for the car? You'll never know.

The $69.99 MSRP means nothing. If they sat on those packs at $69.99 each, they'd never sell. That's why they were priced at $29.99, and that's why they were on MMAO - to move units and free up inventory. That is retail sales for you.


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## jp1979 (Sep 12, 2013)

FWIW, I just went on CI and bid $26.00 on the sampler....


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## jp1979 (Sep 12, 2013)

stonecutter2 said:


> On their retail site it was "discounted" from $69.99 to $29.99. And the item was also in the Make An Offer section.
> 
> Gurkha has proved without a shadow of a doubt that MSRP is meaningless. It always has been. MSRP's are manipulated to create a sense of value or a "good deal." That is why a car has a sticker price, which I hope you didn't pay. A $36,000 car that I can get for only $28,500? Where do I sign for this fabulous deal!
> 
> The $69.99 MSRP means nothing. That is retail sales for you.


Are you one of those guys that gets all pissy if they wont let you use a coupon on an item that's already on sale? Even though is says "can't be used on sale items" in super small print on the bottom?

I myself and most on here are looking at it like this:
item on sale, offered less, offer denied, offered a little more but still less, offer denied, hissy fit deletes account, sends flame email, calls to make sure they got flame email, makes demands....

You can make all of the offers you want, doesn't mean they have to accept them. I love the car msrp analogy, that's what I do for a living. If someone's offer is to low.... they get sent packing. And believe what you will about MSRP, there are very few cars that have 7500 worth of mark up between invoice and msrp. Most average $2000


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## stogienoob75 (Feb 27, 2014)

I did the same thing as Zurg, twice actually because I read the first 3 pages yesterday. 

An since I am in Canada, I don't have any experience with these larger companies because they either don't ship, or do but it's a trial at best.

What I did find interesting about this thread was a) how polarizing it was, I really didn't expect anyone to defend the large corporation and 2) How the OP was interpreted.

The polarizing part I guess is just par for the course on a forum. People have their opinions and they like to share them.
But the way in was interpreted really did surprise me. I can only relate based on things I have already read in previous threads, where people complained that it seemed some of these systems were rigged. Not saying they are, but there certainly has been lots of speculation about bots or certain usernames always winning. Based on that I figured that was the real complaint. I've seen some of this mentioned, but to start; MSRP doesn't seem to have a place in this discussion. Their may have been a time that it wasn't a marketing tool. But certainly, it's become obvious in this day and age, that MSRP is exactly that now. No company would truly be able to survive is their true MSRP (which is suppose to be related to the cost of getting the product made and delivered to retailers and then add something on for the retailer). If product are retailing (day to day) for 50, 60 or even 90% less then MSRP, who are they trying to kid?

So the question is, is $25 too low? obviously they thought so, and that is their right. But if I was that polite lady who spoke to him, I would have tried to explain why it was. they must have a minimum, and while I'm sure they don't want to tell anyone exactly what would be accepted (I'm sure it differs for each product, but their must be a general rule). They could have handled the situation differently. 

But also, if I was them and you cancelled all your accounts over something like this, before even calling me (I believe that was the order of events) I probably wouldn't have been overly interested in helping out. I believe the customer is mostly right, most of the time. I will gladly do anything within my power and reason to make a customer happy. But that is where I draw the line. You have to be reasonable and appreciative when I do go above and beyond. If I can't make you happy, then I will stop trying. But I will try my damndest from the start to make you happy.

Well my 2 cents, hope this doesn't upset anyone too much! 
(and loving the gif's guys... well except for the neon 10 year old girl gif I saw  )


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## stogienoob75 (Feb 27, 2014)

wow... that was longer then I realized :O


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## jp1979 (Sep 12, 2013)

*HAHAHAHAHAHA*

@usafvet509, I need your address I have a package for you

*disclaimer* This post is not a dig on Trent, I have herfed with Trent and am really going to send him the sampler.


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## stogienoob75 (Feb 27, 2014)

LMFAO! now that is funny! I don't care who you are, that is funny stuff!


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## WNYTony (Feb 12, 2014)

jp1979 said:


> I don't think throwing a tantrum, deleting you account, sending them emails then calling them, making demands and expecting an explanation as to why they won't meet them, makes you a good customer either. They gave him his explanation twice when they denied his bids.


This has been a very interesting thread to watch and I'm actually surprised and at the same time very happy to see so many folks standing by the business in this scenario. Being in retail (at the head office level) for 30+ years - I get all of these type of customers and calls and sometimes you just cannot satisfy the customer within reasonable boundaries. You can always give them the product, and an extra gift card for future business, and offer the farm but just like we've all seen with the BNB Groupon threads - word gets around and pretty soon there is a line of people wanting the same thing and you're going out of business. Sometimes it's best to just agree to disagree and move on - customer shops elsewhere and life goes on.

In my experience, almost all complaints that get up to this level follow the same path. The customer says they will no longer shop your business and that they will spread the word - to warn others. That's usually the last attempt to try and force a surrender to their terms - comply or they will try to damage your business (and the internet has this part made easier than ever). Interestingly though, if I were to tell that same customer "I agree, we cannot seem to satisfy you so you should shop elsewhere I will cancel your account and you will never hear from us again" they usually get upset about that and the focus shifts. No one wants to be told they cannot shop your business - even after they've told you they won't LOL

While I don't agree with the OP's position and think it definitely was an overboard reaction to his offer not being accepted, he certainly has a right to close his wallet to them and take his business elsewhere. And in no way am I trying to attack or discredit the OP with anything I say here - he feels his decision is the correct one for him and I'm good with that.

But the irony is that this began over an offer not being accepted and the OP trying to save as much money as possible. And in subsequent postings he claimed he never pays full price (not going to look up the exact quote but it was along those lines) which most of us probably try to do as much as we can. But by going to this extreme of closing the wallet to CI (and I assume cBid) he took away the best way to continue to get those type of deals. While there are deals to be had everywhere - those guys are big players in the saving money game.

You can take a little pay cut and still pay your bills, but you can't pay your boss to let you work there and still survive. Business can't pay you (which is what they are doing if they are selling below their cost) to take their products and still survive. We all want to save money and pay as little as possible, but the business actually has to make enough profit to survive in order to do this. As consumers we cannot always ask business to dip below cost and then expect them to be here next month.

From what I've read above in this thread I don't see where CI was evil or wrong. Thank you for posting your experience and your thoughts on it but I will continue to do business with them. I hope you are happy on whatever path you wind up choosing.


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## Gdaddy (Sep 20, 2012)

zoey said:


> I would have given the discount that one time....think of the story we would be hearing now instead of what we see....everyone who sees the positive story it is the gift that keeps on giving.


Zoey if you 'cave in' to peoples demands such as meeting his lower bid you open Pandora's box to further negotiations that can get even uglier. Now, every time he wants to order something he knows you're weak and will call you and say..."but Zoey, you did it for me last time! Certainly you'll at least give me the same discount I got last time!"

You see, if you don't give him the same discount every time you become the bad guy. "You did it last time and now you won't? How dare you!!" 
So now you've created a customer where you make less money or possibly no money every time they call. You have taught him that all he has to do is call and you will be willing to take less money. Once you do it, there's no turning back.

It's important to understand that this niceness/weakness is considered as opportunity by these types of people. Their demands will even become more problematic down the road as they think you should do even more for them.

You are advocating that you are creating 'good will' by making him happy. Sure he's happy and will tell all his friends that all you have to do is call and speak to Zoey for further discounts. When his friends call what will you say??? Well....I gave him a discount but I can't give you one. Why the heck not??? Hey, I'm a potential customer too!!

Now you're not the one controlling your prices... they are.

Also...If a customer ever finds out that he paid more than his neighbor did because you give random discounts you will have Hell to pay.

There are people that go through life using this tactic to get a good deal. You are helping them succeed every time you give in to their demands. Perpetuating the behavior.


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## JustinThyme (Jun 17, 2013)

jp1979 said:


> I love the car msrp analogy, that's what I do for a living. If someone's offer is to low.... they get sent packing. And believe what you will about MSRP, there are very few cars that have 7500 worth of mark up between invoice and msrp. Most average $2000


Now that is funny!
Most of the car dealers I know of will go ahead and accept your low ball offer then tag you with destination charges, dealer prep charges, paperwork charges, finance charges and try to sneak in a $2000 warranty that you don't need. I've never seen anyone get sent packing from a dealership. They usually leave on their own accord when they find out that no matter what this particular dealer wont settle for less than ripping you off. I've left from plenty of them with the salesman nipping my heals right up until I roll up my car window and about run over his feet on the way out of the parking lot. I do my homework before I go so I know what Im buying, what its really worth and what the sales history for the last 30 days are on market value. I let them know up front that I'm no dummy and privy to every car dealer trick in the book, my dad had a dealership for many years.


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## TonyAccardo (Oct 2, 2014)

I'll tell you what, down here in Southern Florida I have never seen or dealt with so many people who think you're never supposed to make a profit. It makes me sick to be honest with you and has made me absolutely despise cheap bastards. Cheap people are definitely on the top of my most despicable people on earth. They ruin peoples days, they ruin things for others, they take or try to take food outta my kids mouths, and they are ever present with their f $/% ing coupons in hand, ready to spread the news with their loud mouths to all of their cheap bastard friends. They really are the bane to great businesses and great customers who not only understand what makes the world go round, but appreciate the environment that it survives in and hate to see it disrupted by cheap people who only think about themselves.


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## Pj201 (Apr 27, 2013)

Tobias Lutz said:


> I wouldn't call him a customer because he didn't buy anything. He's a "potential" customer. (and NO, having bought stuff before does not entitle you to a hissy-fit over a transaction that has not yet taken place) You ALWAYS owe a response to someone who has paid you for a good or service, you don't necessarily owe anything when a transaction has not taken place. If they can (or want) to do without his business...that's their business.
> 
> Amen- it works both ways folks :nod:
> 
> ...


Well said as usual Tobias.


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## jp1979 (Sep 12, 2013)

JustinThyme said:


> Now that is funny!
> Most of the car dealers I know of will go ahead and accept your low ball offer then tag you with destination charges, dealer prep charges, paperwork charges, finance charges and try to sneak in a $2000 warranty that you don't need. I've never seen anyone get sent packing from a dealership. They usually leave on their own accord when they find out that no matter what this particular dealer wont settle for less than ripping you off. I've left from plenty of them with the salesman nipping my heals right up until I roll up my car window and about run over his feet on the way out of the parking lot. I do my homework before I go so I know what Im buying, what its really worth and what the sales history for the last 30 days are on market value. I let them know up front that I'm no dummy and privy to every car dealer trick in the book, my dad had a dealership for many years.


Destination is in the sticker price. Everyone pays doc fee. Finance charges are charged if you finance the car, do you pay interest on your house? I will agree that some dealers try to lob ancillary products in without telling you, but with all the new compliance regulations that doesn't (isn't supposed to) happen much anymore. Maybe a difference in philosophy but I don't chase customers. Its the customers that you make the least amount of money on that give you the lowest survey scores and they are the biggest pain in the asses. Its not worth it, I would rather my average gross per unit be higher and sell less cars. Using this philosophy I took the 180th worst CSI (customer service index) Infiniti dealership out of 202 in the country, to 9th highest in 7 months, we sold less cars than the dealer group that owned it before and there was a million dollar upward swing in NET profitability.


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## zoey (Nov 17, 2013)

Nature said:


> How is an entitlement attitude "progress"? It the type of behavior I witnessed from my kids when they were toddlers. Seems like those with the entitlement attitudes are the ones doing the whining.


You got confused on my point. The sense of entitlement isn't going to go away any time soon. As time unfolds if you don't find a way to deal with it as it becomes more widespread then you will face issues down the line.

Customers should never have to pay for a companies inefficiencies whatever form they take regardless of business. If you don't adapt your business shrinks or it dies....just a matter of time.

I would elaborate further but I have to deal with my 20 account managers who want to offer a better price on things on shelf for the stuff everyone on this board buys in one way or another.

I am sure I will have plenty to say when I get a break from work. I have never worked in customer service but I control the trade budget for roughly $1.7B in annual sales for Nestle USA so I have a little experience with people whining/entitlement/wanting a better price/general bitching. I basically breath that life everyday. My team calls me Mr. No and I am sure a bunch of other not so nice stuff not to my face.


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## llappen (Jul 24, 2014)

jp1979 said:


> *HAHAHAHAHAHA*
> 
> @usafvet509, I need your address I have a package for you
> 
> *disclaimer* This post is not a dig on Trent, I have herfed with Trent and am really going to send him the sampler.


This gesture is the true meaning of Puff. RG increased because of this


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## TonyAccardo (Oct 2, 2014)

jp1979 said:


> Destination is in the sticker price. Everyone pays doc fee. Finance charges are charged if you finance the car, do you pay interest on your house? I will agree that some dealers try to lob ancillary products in without telling you, but with all the new compliance regulations that doesn't (isn't supposed to) happen much anymore. Maybe a difference in philosophy but I don't chase customers. Its the customers that you make the least amount of money on that give you the lowest survey scores and they are the biggest pain in the asses. Its not worth it, I would rather my average gross per unit be higher and sell less cars. Using this philosophy I took the 180th worst CSI (customer service index) Infiniti dealership out of 202 in the country, to 9th highest in 7 months, we sold less cars than the dealer group that owned it before and there was a million dollar upward swing in NET profitability.


Those are good numbers right there and goes to show that a business still can be run without kowtowing to the rat that searchs, scratches, and snivels for the "eternal deal" with their grubby fingers clutching coupons and their inane belief that you, as a business, have no right in the world to make a dime off of anything or them!!

Sounds like you know how to run a business the right, appropriate way. Car dealerships have got to be the worst place in the world as far as dealing with these types of potential customers because everyone needs a car so it's not like you're getting just a certain percentage of the population, you're getting everybody. I imagine if I wanted to get my blood boiling I could just read some stories of what goes on between salesmen and potential customer at a car dealership in an average day. My hats are off to you guys. It takes a special person to be able to deal with people like that without wanting to kill them.


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## The Horseman's Head (Sep 30, 2014)

lmao, i used my halloween pass acct to respond by mistake. oops.

hang on....


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## stonecutter2 (Jul 12, 2012)

jp1979 said:


> Are you one of those guys that gets all pissy if they wont let you use a coupon on an item that's already on sale? Even though is says "can't be used on sale items" in super small print on the bottom?


Uhh, no. That has nothing to do with the issue being discussed. Buy hey, thanks for trying to insult me...or something.



jp1979 said:


> I myself and most on here are looking at it like this:
> item on sale, offered less, offer denied, offered a little more but still less, offer denied, hissy fit deletes account, sends flame email, calls to make sure they got flame email, makes demands....


Yeah, I get that. I'm just saying what was offered is not that outrageous. People are making it out like the guy offered $2 on a $29.99 pack. It wasn't THAT unreasonable at all, and throwing MSRP out there is meaningless. It sells for $29.99 - that's the price. Was his reaction appropriate? I dunno. Some think not. But he wasn't that far out of line so as to be terribly unreasonable.



jp1979 said:


> You can make all of the offers you want, doesn't mean they have to accept them. I love the car msrp analogy, that's what I do for a living. If someone's offer is to low.... they get sent packing. And believe what you will about MSRP, there are very few cars that have 7500 worth of mark up between invoice and msrp. Most average $2000


Obviously they can do whatever they want, up to and including ignoring customers who are obviously so interested in their product that they get as worked up as the OP. Anyone can run their business any way they please, including telling everyone to buzz off.

I NEVER said...ever...that the business was obligated to sell to this person for whatever they offered. I'm saying the person's offer did NOT seem unreasonable, and in fact shows what a farce their "MMAO" program seems to me. I've seen the same. I've offered $1 under what items were selling for on their site, and got declined. That was the point where I stopped wasting my time. I just bought it at retail for what they were selling it for - which in my opinion is just part of the "game" they play with MMAO. And occasionally they allow "deals" to get some buzz going.

When a car dealer starts at sticker and stays there, I usually end up finding another dealer, too. If "what kind of a deal can you make me on this" is responded with "Well, the car lists for (insert sticker price)" I then ask again - the sticker price is great, but what deal can you make me. If they don't bother to budge, I proceed to stand up and gather my things. Insults are insults, on both ends of the negotiation. The difference is the money's in my pocket, and I decide who to give it to. Unless I'm buying one of the hottest cars of the year, the dealer has to give a little.

I didn't say every car had 7500 worth of mark up, nor that ANY particular car had that kind of mark up. it was just an offhand generalization to make a point. People do that. I can just as easily say a $30,000 is marked down to only $28,000, if that makes you feel better about it.

Throwing MSRP out there for cigars is an absolute joke. As I've said...see: Gurkha.


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## c.ortiz108 (Nov 16, 2013)

TonyAccardo said:


> I'll tell you what, down here in Southern Florida I have never seen or dealt with so many people who think you're never supposed to make a profit. It makes me sick to be honest with you and has made me absolutely despise cheap bastards. Cheap people are definitely on the top of my most despicable people on earth. They ruin peoples days, they ruin things for others, they take or try to take food outta my kids mouths, and they are ever present with their f $/% ing coupons in hand, ready to spread the news with their loud mouths to all of their cheap bastard friends. They really are the bane to great businesses and great customers who not only understand what makes the world go round, but appreciate the environment that it survives in and hate to see it disrupted by cheap people who only think about themselves.


Uh, wow. Guess you won't be going for that BnB Groupon then.

Off to send a charitable donation to all the poor folks at Chase and Walmart.....


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## Rock31 (Sep 30, 2010)

now lets see if we could get actual cigar topics to go 8+ pages


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## Gdaddy (Sep 20, 2012)

TonyAccardo said:


> I'll tell you what, down here in Southern Florida I have never seen or dealt with so many people who think you're never supposed to make a profit. It makes me sick to be honest with you and has made me absolutely despise cheap bastards. Cheap people are definitely on the top of my most despicable people on earth. They ruin peoples days, they ruin things for others, they take or try to take food outta my kids mouths, and they are ever present with their f $/% ing coupons in hand, ready to spread the news with their loud mouths to all of their cheap bastard friends. They really are the bane to great businesses and great customers who not only understand what makes the world go round, but appreciate the environment that it survives in and hate to see it disrupted by cheap people who only think about themselves.


You nailed it! I was in Boca and couldn't wait to get out of there.

Snigglefritters is the word I use. Always 'sniggling' for a cheaper price. Pathetic group of people always trying to get something for nothing.


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## garublador (Jun 5, 2014)

stonecutter2 said:


> Yeah, I get that. I'm just saying what was offered is not that outrageous. People are making it out like the guy offered $2 on a $29.99 pack. It wasn't THAT unreasonable at all, and throwing MSRP out there is meaningless. It sells for $29.99 - that's the price. Was his reaction appropriate? I dunno. Some think not. But he wasn't that far out of line so as to be terribly unreasonable.


Not terribly unreasonable, but it's not like he was offering to do them a huge favor or anything. His response to cancel his account, pester their customer service and then complain about them in a public forum because he wasn't offered 33% or 17% off their sale price (both probably cut into their entire margin on the sampler) is disproportionate. 17% off isn't insignificant. 17% margin is huge for many products. Your response to just not use the MMAO anymore is much more realistic. Even pointing out that you aren't likely to get more than 10% off is perfectly reasonable. That's not anywhere close to what happened.


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## Coasty (Mar 1, 2012)

I am looking forward to another 10,000 people getting pissed at CI. Then they will accept my low ball bids, I hope.

As a retailer, there is a point at which I will not honor a customers demand for either price or service. It's my business and if you push me to far you can take your *ss right out the door. Over 50% of my sales are from returning customers. I appreciate any offer and it up to the seller to take it or leave it.


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## Billb1960 (Oct 10, 2014)

stonecutter2 said:


> On their retail site it was "discounted" from $69.99 to $29.99. And the item was also in the Make An Offer section.
> 
> Gurkha has proved without a shadow of a doubt that MSRP is meaningless. It always has been. MSRP's are manipulated to create a sense of value or a "good deal." That is why a car has a sticker price, which I hope you didn't pay. A $36,000 car that I can get for only $28,500? Where do I sign for this fabulous deal! I really pulled one over on that car dealer, what a sucker!
> 
> ...


Having spent 30 years in the automotive field I can speak to this a little. MSRP is the acronym for Manufacturers Suggested Retail Price. It's not a number pulled out of thin air, at least in the car business, it's based on a specific formula. Do most people pay MSRP for their car? Probably not but you'd be surprised at how many actually do, they're commonly called "lay downs" in the car business. Is it possible to find out what the dealer paid for the car? Absolutely! Edmunds.com can provide you with that data in a heartbeat.


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## Gdaddy (Sep 20, 2012)

stonecutter2 said:


> It wasn't a lowball offer.
> 
> $25 for a $29.99 pack of cigars is a 16.6% discount. That's hardly "lowball."


Yes, it clearly was and they politely said so.

If $25 is reasonable, as you say, then certainly $24 should be accepted too. After all it's only one more dollar. How about $23 then? So where is the bottom?
We now know the bottom was $26.


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## The invisible man (Dec 18, 2012)

I deal with customers all day, If they have a legitimate gripe, something that is our fault where we are in the wrong I have no problem at all fixing the issue for them and making it right.

Example: customer says he bought a watermelon, took it home and it wasn't sweet, I apologize,offer him a full refund or give him a replacement watermelon.

But to many times grown adults come into the store, throw there little tantrums, disrespect employees,hold up other customers, yell at us etc.... just because they can't get what they want.Knowing that if yhey make a big enough scene management will eventually give them what they want.

Example:" I see your avocados are $1.75 each here, I only pay a doller each at the store down the street this is ridiculous why are the prices so high on everything here, "mam, I apologize, I don't set the prices I just put the product on the tables, "well aren't you the dept manager, can't you give them to me for a dollar each? " yes, I am but I don't get to set the prices" well that's just rediculous, your the manager and your telling me you can't lower the price, well your no manager at all then"

And on and on then it's, " well I'd like to talk to a store manager" 

And since we have a policy that forces us to give the customer what ever they want just so they'll be quiet and keep spending there money in the store, the manager will give her the avocados for a dollar.

This policy has nothing at all to do with customer service, like I said it just to keep them quiet and keep them spending there money.


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## SeanTheEvans (Dec 13, 2013)

Gdaddy said:


> Yes, it clearly was and they politely said so.
> 
> If $25 is reasonable, as you say, then certainly $24 should be accepted too. After all it's only one more dollar. How about $23 then? So where is the bottom?
> We now know the bottom was $26.


Damn. I paid $54.95 for this off cBid last year, although it was 20 cigars, not 10. That means I would have paid $27.47 for the 10 pack. Maybe I should call them and see if I can get my $1.47 refunded.

Seriously though, I'm rather shocked the thread has made it this far - great recovery - and glad we can all be (for the most part) respectful in our conversation!


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## The invisible man (Dec 18, 2012)

jp1979 said:


> *HAHAHAHAHAHA*
> 
> @usafvet509, I need your address I have a package for you
> 
> *disclaimer* This post is not a dig on Trent, I have herfed with Trent and am really going to send him the sampler.


Too damn funny.


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## thechasm442 (Jan 21, 2014)

Wow what a thread.

Just speaking from someone in retail management (I run a grocery store), you just have to know when to pick your battles. Sometimes you really do have to put your foot down when customers are being unreasonable. Yes "the customer is always right", but when customers lie to you and try to cheat and deceive, you have to be firm and possibly look at the possibility of terminating their business.

However, 9 times out of 10, even if the customer is 100% wrong and you and they both know it, it's easier just to give them what they want so they shut the f*$k up and go away. Especially in today's world where all people have to do is post slander and libel all over the internet. Your reputation can easily be trashed for things that did not even happen.


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## jp1979 (Sep 12, 2013)

stonecutter2 said:


> Uhh, no. That has nothing to do with the issue being discussed. Buy hey, thanks for trying to insult me...or something..


Not an insult, was just a question



stonecutter2 said:


> Yeah, I get that. I'm just saying what was offered is not that outrageous. People are making it out like the guy offered $2 on a $29.99 pack. It wasn't THAT unreasonable at all, and throwing MSRP out there is meaningless. It sells for $29.99 - that's the price. Was his reaction appropriate? I dunno. Some think not. But he wasn't that far out of line so as to be terribly unreasonable...


Have you ever purchased an Opus X for 60% off of MSRP? Why do you think they are not on CBid any longer? Fuente put the hammer down, they want there stuff sold at MSRP, end of story. You can say all you want that MSRP is not relevant but it is.



stonecutter2 said:


> Insults are insults, on both ends of the negotiation.


Agreed.


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## zoey (Nov 17, 2013)

thechasm442 said:


> Wow what a thread.
> 
> Just speaking from someone in retail management (I run a grocery store), you just have to know when to pick your battles. Sometimes you really do have to put your foot down when customers are being unreasonable. Yes "the customer is always right", but when customers lie to you and try to cheat and deceive, you have to be firm and possibly look at the possibility of terminating their business.
> 
> However, 9 times out of 10, even if the customer is 100% wrong and you and they both know it, it's easier just to give them what they want so they shut the f*$k up and go away. Especially in today's world where all people have to do is post slander and libel all over the internet. Your reputation can easily be trashed for things that did not even happen.


Amen...........well stated.


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## stonecutter2 (Jul 12, 2012)

Rock31 said:


> now lets see if we could get actual cigar topics to go 8+ pages


Cello or no cello? 
Are Gurkhas really that bad?

Go!


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## egoo33 (Jul 21, 2013)

stonecutter2 said:


> Cello or no cello?
> Are Gurkhas really that bad?
> 
> Go!


off
yes

now is it pronounced gif or jif like the peanut butter. i think this is the most anyone has discussed CAO since Huber left


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## LostMason (Oct 13, 2014)

Ya know all this reminds me of an individual who expected me (my company)to guaranty work that had been
done by one of our competetors,,I know differnt situation but bare with me,,He more or less called me a crook
because the only way I would pick up the service contract was by doing the job over with my materials and 
techniques,,,at one point he turned his back on me and walked off,,,,I returned to my own work and when he 
came back to start the argument again,I told him straight out,"this conversation is over,it ended when you walked off
and I see no reason to waste any more time with it or you",,,did I lose a customer or two ,probably, but the others
who wittnessed this aplauded me for standing up to him,,,,was the OP's offer unreasonable,I don't think so,,,but they
CI,(evedently) thought it was unacceptable,,,to then harass and threaten after allready closing his account was bullying,,,


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## Drez_ (Jan 30, 2014)

stonecutter2 said:


> If they're selling, retail, at $29.99, then $25 each is NOT an unreasonable offer. You would be a foolish individual to offer $35 for something selling retail at $29.99 - and who knows, maybe that's why they bother with their make an offer page.


That is exactly why they have the page. It's no different than comparison shopping from one vendor to the next. You can actually get some good deals on a few items via the MMAO page, but you have to shop the normal prices that CI is offering products for to not be fooled into making an offer higher than what they are currently selling it for.

You'd probably be surprised at the people who don't look to see what that particular item is "listed" at via the normal website, and make an offer higher than what they could flat out buy it for.


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## Billb1960 (Oct 10, 2014)

Drez_ said:


> That is exactly why they have the page. It's no different than comparison shopping from one vendor to the next. You can actually get some good deals on a few items via the MMAO page, but you have to shop the normal prices that CI is offering products for to not be fooled into making an offer higher than what they are currently selling it for.
> 
> You'd probably be surprised at the people who don't look to see what that particular item is "listed" at via the normal website, and make an offer higher than what they could flat out buy it for.


This also happens on CBid fairly often as near as I can tell. I think it's built in to their forecasting.


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## pmr1010 (Jul 13, 2013)

LostMason said:


> was the OP's offer unreasonable,I don't think so,,,but they
> CI,(evidently) thought it was unacceptable,,,to then harass and threaten after already closing his account was bullying,,,


I agree completely. I fixed your spelling errors too.

I have made several bids on things at CI's Make Me An Offer and have won some and lost some. I always bid the price I was willing to spend, if they're declined then so be it. It's called Make Me An Offer, not Throw Out Any Price And We'll Agree.


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## Redwyvern (Aug 6, 2013)

Sorry, but I have to post this: I read this Yelp exchange the other day, and it very much reminds me of the OP's post. It's kinda long, but... have a read.

_The one-star Yelp Review:

Most unfriendly and arrogant restaurant in KC.

Just called Voltaire to try to order some food because we're in a late business meeting across the street. First, they refused to answer our question about what type of broth is used in the risotto. Then they said they won't pack food to go. My husband spoke to the manager and explained that we're in a conference room across the street, and asked if they can pack our dinner (which we would pick up). The hostess flat-out refused to answer our question about the food or to try and work with us so we could get food in our meeting. My husband asked to speak with the manager. The manager, Jamie, said, "our food is plated beautifully, and we can't put it in a 'to go' container." So thanks, Jamie, we'll just starve. (What the manager said is just not true by the way--we've eaten there before, and they did pack our food to go.) When my husband said that he was going to post a Yelp review about the way the restaurant was treating us, the manager questioned, "Are you a grown man and an adult?"

Yes, Jamie, we are grown adults, and we do not do business with people who behave like you do.

We regularly travel to NYC and eat at a variety of restaurants, which are more than happy to accommodate people by packing food to go. This restaurant thinks they're too good for their customers. They will soon learn that if you ignore your customers, they're going to start ignoring you. I would not even give this place one star after this experience, and I'm dismayed by their unprofessional and arrogant behavior.
The epic response:

I sincerely apologize that we don't offer "take-out" food at our restaurant. Being a Yelp user, I'm sure you were aware that on our Yelp business page, on the right side of the screen, it lists details about our establishment. There is an item listed "Take-Out : No". We have never offered take-out food as we believe the food we prepare should be presented as we see fit, (usually) on a plate inside the dining room.

As for the risotto, its made with a vegetable stock - this dish is vegetarian, and I'm certain that who you were speaking with wanted to make extra certain the information provided to you was accurate.

On your previous visits, you say you have witnessed dishes being boxed up as proof that we provide "take-out" food. Although we do allow our guests to take their uneaten food with them in to-go boxes after they have dined with us, we have never offered "take-out" food.

If you were actually starving, as in a life threatening condition requiring nutritional sustenance, we would be happy to assist you..we do make exceptions for emergency situations.

Our general manager did question the age/maturity of your husband after he became combative and threatened us with a negative Yelp review if we did not alter our operational practice and provide him with "take-out" food. 15 minutes later you indeed came through with this threat. I can assure you that we don't offer "take-out" food because we feel we are "too good" for our customers; we just prefer to have our guests dine with us, allowing for the proper presentation (and temperature) of their fare that has been skillfully prepared by our kitchen.

I am very pleased that you frequent New York. We travel often as well. And I can assure you that there are many restaurants in NYC that do not offer "take-out" food. Although there are many other options that do - in Kansas City as well (Go Royals!).

It was made REPEATEDLY clear in the conversation with your husband that he is a lawyer. Let me provide the following analogy/role reversal...it may assist in clarifying your request.

YOU: I want to hire you to handle my divorce.

ME: But, I'm a tax lawyer.

YOU: I don't care...I want you to handle my divorce.

ME: Sorry, but I don't practice that form of law.

YOU: Just handle my divorce, I'll pay you...it will be fine.

ME: I don't feel comfortable providing my services as a divorce lawyer, as I am a tax lawyer. You won't receive the service you are wanting or that I am willing to provide.

YOU: Well, I travel to NYC often, and in NYC, Tax lawyers handle my divorce litigation all the time. I don't know what the problem is. I've told you I'm a chef, right?

ME: Well, that's nice sir, but I really can't help you. It goes against my business practice.

YOU: If you don't represent me in my divorce, I'm going to post it all over the [most frequented social media review of lawyers] that you refused to provide me with the service I requested, and make baseless allegations about how you are very pretentious, arrogant and unprofessional. I will also try to prevent you from getting any additional business by damning you on said social media platform. Now will you represent me?

ME: I don't take kindly to threats.

Thanks for your feedback. We will let you know if we decide in the future to practice divorce law, I mean, provide "take-out" food._


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## Emperor Zurg (May 6, 2013)

Post!!

10 pages!! I'm going for 10 pages in this awful thread!!


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## TonyAccardo (Oct 2, 2014)

Man, I'll bet this guy, the OP, is sorry he posted this thread! Seems like he's been here awhile too as he has all of these different awards and a 207 post count, which isn't that much but whatever. Just reading the way the guy handled this, I'm surprised he hasn't had problems like this with other members here before as his post really exposes into the open what kind of personality the guy has. It's honestly kind of funny as it seems he hasn't posted since and it seems he's hiding with his tail tucked after realizing how unpopular his side of the argument is.

I'm glad though because if there's any justice anywhere, at least horrible customers like this aren't going to be given a forum or a box to speak on and to harbor their bullchit behavior. It goes to show that there are a decent majority of good customers and people out there still.


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## Billb1960 (Oct 10, 2014)

I've read and re-read the OP and I still don't get it. It's almost like there's the perception that there's a human being sitting at a keyboard watching the offers come in and laughing maniacally while mashing the "No" button. These things are programmed with a minimum offer price and then they simply execute that program on every offer. How can this possibly be taken as some sort of personal affront that requires a real customer service rep to "apologize" for not accepting the offer? 

Now, should CI follow up on customers who cancel their accounts? Not a bad idea. Is it cost effective? Probably. Certainly a business' most valuable customers are the ones who buy from them on a regular basis. It certainly costs more acquire a new customer than it does to retain an existing one. The question is how much time do you devote to customers who spend most of their time grabbing up the lowest profit margin deals?

Nevertheless to throw a tantrum and invest this much time & effort because you lost a bid on 10 cigars:dunno:


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## Sigaar (Sep 19, 2014)

While I've said my piece, just wanted to apologize if I riled anyone up in this thread...it wasn't my intention. I've spent most of my adult life dealing with customers and always prided myself on providing excellent customer service, so tend to have pretty strong opinions on the topic. And jp1979, no hard feelings (at all!). Nothing wrong with people having differing opinions! Anyway, I wanted to just put it out there that I feel better about the Puff community than I did when making some of those posts due to some PM's/rep RG comments. So, with that happy smoking!:nod:


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## jp1979 (Sep 12, 2013)

All good man...


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## drb124 (Nov 11, 2011)

I recently had a customer service issue over at Famous Smoke, not at CI, in which I was issued a credit to be used on my next order. I subsequently ordered a box, but apprantly the credit had not posted yet because it was over the weekend. I would normally had not thought CS worked weekends except the response to me was on Saturday. Regardless I promptly left them a message and emailed, buy my order was shipped before they caught it. So I called in and asked if they could apply the credit, and they said because it had shipped they could not. I was in the middle of something so I did not have time to deal with the whole thing right then, so when I had time, I sent an email, explaining that I had taken the previous CS rep at her word that I could use the credit on my next order, and that I understood if it was their policy not do a retroactive credit application, but that I had just ordered 2 boxes in the prior order and a box with this order as well as a good deal of business in the past, I would appreciate it if there was anything she could do. 

At that point the CS rep agreed to apply the credit. I was happy and they didn't lose any money that they would not have in the future. Full disclosure, it was likely my fault, and they were under no obligation to issue me any credit in the first place, but once that credit was issued, I took umbrage with the fact they claimed not to be able to do a retroactive credit application. If their had been a mention of policy or practice, that would have been fine with me, but to say that they couldn't do it was to insult my intelligence as if I was blind to the fact that I was being forced to place another order to use the credit that had been issued. 

Now I understand these are businesses, and they have to make money. And in truth, Famous offers good enough deals that it would not have affected my patronage of their store to a large degree. But now, with a small effort on their part, I am happy and will continue to purchase from them whenever I can. 

I guess my point is in these situations it is best to collect your thoughts, express yourself in a non threatening manner, try to let the CS rep you are speaking to know that you are aware that it is not his or her fault personally, and that you appreciate any effort they may make on your behalf. I have found that this course of action is much more likely to result in you getting what you want and both sides reaching an amicable solution to what amounts to be a small discount on a few rolled leaves. The less people you can anger, the smoother you will move through life, with a few notable exceptions.


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## blknyt (Oct 11, 2012)

Redwyvern said:


> Sorry, but I have to post this: I read this Yelp exchange the other day, and it very much reminds me of the OP's post. It's kinda long, but... have a read.
> 
> _The one-star Yelp Review:
> 
> ...


Bravo... bit of a thread hijack, but this Yelp response is pure genius!!!

I despise this sort of arrogance from my legal brethren!!


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## stonecutter2 (Jul 12, 2012)

Emperor Zurg said:


> Post!!
> 
> 10 pages!! I'm going for 10 pages in this awful thread!!


This one time, at band camp...


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## MDSPHOTO (Sep 10, 2013)

"Look kids.... Yeah we know dad Big Ben/Parliament."

- C.W. Griswald


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## Kasanova King (Jun 8, 2014)

This thread is the most excitement this place has seen in months....:lol:....actually, I don't even remember when a single thread got so much attention in so little time....


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## LostMason (Oct 13, 2014)

I WANNNAAA HEAR ABOUT BAND CAMP !!!:lock1:


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## jp1979 (Sep 12, 2013)

PAGE 10!:lock1:


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## Emperor Zurg (May 6, 2013)

jp1979 said:


> PAGE 10!:lock1:


*WooHoo!!*


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## egoo33 (Jul 21, 2013)

OOOOOHHHH YEAHHHHHHHHH


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## cakeanddottle (Mar 14, 2011)




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## jp1979 (Sep 12, 2013)

Kasanova King said:


> This thread is the most excitement this place has seen in months....:lol:....actually, I don't even remember when a single thread got so much attention in so little time....


There were a couple of them a month or two before you joined, where has BigLuke been anyway?


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## egoo33 (Jul 21, 2013)

jp1979 said:


> There were a couple of them a month or two before you joined, where has BigLuke been anyway?


I miss A + guy


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## jp1979 (Sep 12, 2013)

egoo33 said:


> I miss A + guy


HA! What a douche he was.


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## usafvet509 (Oct 21, 2013)

You know, Justin's generosity got me thinkin'... Yes I did overreact. Perhaps I have a bit of a temper lol :behindsofa: My apologies for starting a flap. @jp1979 , I again find myself the recipient of your generosity, and all I can say is thanks, bro!!!


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## jp1979 (Sep 12, 2013)

usafvet509 said:


> You know, Justin's generosity got me thinkin'... Yes I did overreact. Perhaps I have a bit of a temper lol :behindsofa: My apologies for starting a flap. @jp1979 , I again find myself the recipient of your generosity, and all I can say is thanks, bro!!!


No problemo Trent, enjoy them when you get them. Don't know if I told you this before but thank you for serving our country man!


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## Goatmilk (Jan 2, 2012)

jp1979 said:


> *HAHAHAHAHAHA*
> 
> @usafvet509, I need your address I have a package for you
> 
> *disclaimer* This post is not a dig on Trent, I have herfed with Trent and am really going to send him the sampler.


He clearly stated in his OP that he wanted two


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## jp1979 (Sep 12, 2013)

Goatmilk said:


> He clearly stated in his OP that he wanted two


Then you get the other one......... :fencing:


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## JustinThyme (Jun 17, 2013)

jp1979 said:


> Destination is in the sticker price. Everyone pays doc fee. Finance charges are charged if you finance the car, do you pay interest on your house? I will agree that some dealers try to lob ancillary products in without telling you, but with all the new compliance regulations that doesn't (isn't supposed to) happen much anymore. Maybe a difference in philosophy but I don't chase customers. Its the customers that you make the least amount of money on that give you the lowest survey scores and they are the biggest pain in the asses. Its not worth it, I would rather my average gross per unit be higher and sell less cars. Using this philosophy I took the 180th worst CSI (customer service index) Infiniti dealership out of 202 in the country, to 9th highest in 7 months, we sold less cars than the dealer group that owned it before and there was a million dollar upward swing in NET profitability.


My point exactly. More money for less cars. We caught hell on the last car we bought, went to a lot of dealers before I found one that wasnt trying to rape the few people that were coming in the door.

You misunderstood what I was saying about finance charges. There is a HUGE difference between paying interest on your mortgage and a dealership tagging an additional $800 for having to go through the trouble of lining things up with the bank. There is also a huge difference between tax, tags and title fees and getting banged for another $800 for doing the paperwork which they refuse to let you do yourself. Destination might be included in the MSRP but its charged again by the dealer. Like I said we walked out of a lot of dealerships. I get sick to death of the salesmen with their stupid pitches like pushing safety to women but then a man looks at the same car and they want to tell you how much HP it has. Some of them get quite comical rivaling the pitchmen on late night TV commercials. LMAO. Again, Im no spring chicken at car dealerships in the least. I grew up with it on both the new and used side. Used gets even funnier!

In the end all I want is to walk in, pay a fair price and get a fair price for my trade if I have one. I'm telling you it takes a lot of work to make that happen and it seldom happens without going to multiple dealers. By the next time I'm ready to buy again going back to the same place usually isn't effective as with the high turn over rate of car salesmen chances are the guy I dealt with wont be there any longer.


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## LostMason (Oct 13, 2014)

usafvet509 said:


> You know, Justin's generosity got me thinkin'... Yes I did overreact. Perhaps I have a bit of a temper lol :behindsofa: My apologies for starting a flap. @jp1979 , I again find myself the recipient of your generosity, and all I can say is thanks, bro!!!


Flaps are a good thing . They get the blood moving.Thanks Vet,Smoke on and smoke long:usa2:


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## jp1979 (Sep 12, 2013)

JustinThyme said:


> My point exactly. More money for less cars. We caught hell on the last car we bought, went to a lot of dealers before I found one that wasnt trying to rape the few people that were coming in the door.
> 
> You misunderstood what I was saying about finance charges. There is a HUGE difference between paying interest on your mortgage and a dealership tagging an additional $800 for having to go through the trouble of lining things up with the bank. There is also a huge difference between tax, tags and title fees and getting banged for another $800 for doing the paperwork which they refuse to let you do yourself. Destination might be included in the MSRP but its charged again by the dealer. Like I said we walked out of a lot of dealerships. I get sick to death of the salesmen with their stupid pitches like pushing safety to women but then a man looks at the same car and they want to tell you how much HP it has. Some of them get quite comical rivaling the pitchmen on late night TV commercials. LMAO. Again, Im no spring chicken at car dealerships in the least. I grew up with it on both the new and used side. Used gets even funnier!
> 
> In the end all I want is to walk in, pay a fair price and get a fair price for my trade if I have one. I'm telling you it takes a lot of work to make that happen and it seldom happens without going to multiple dealers. By the next time I'm ready to buy again going back to the same place usually isn't effective as with the high turn over rate of car salesmen chances are the guy I dealt with wont be there any longer.


You are one of those guys, yes, there are people who will sell cars to customers like that, I am not one of them.


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## Billb1960 (Oct 10, 2014)

JustinThyme said:


> My point exactly. More money for less cars. We caught hell on the last car we bought, went to a lot of dealers before I found one that wasnt trying to rape the few people that were coming in the door.
> 
> You misunderstood what I was saying about finance charges. There is a HUGE difference between paying interest on your mortgage and a dealership tagging an additional $800 for having to go through the trouble of lining things up with the bank. There is also a huge difference between tax, tags and title fees and getting banged for another $800 for doing the paperwork which they refuse to let you do yourself. Destination might be included in the MSRP but its charged again by the dealer. Like I said we walked out of a lot of dealerships. I get sick to death of the salesmen with their stupid pitches like pushing safety to women but then a man looks at the same car and they want to tell you how much HP it has. Some of them get quite comical rivaling the pitchmen on late night TV commercials. LMAO. Again, Im no spring chicken at car dealerships in the least. I grew up with it on both the new and used side. Used gets even funnier!
> 
> In the end all I want is to walk in, pay a fair price and get a fair price for my trade if I have one. I'm telling you it takes a lot of work to make that happen and it seldom happens without going to multiple dealers. By the next time I'm ready to buy again going back to the same place usually isn't effective as with the high turn over rate of car salesmen chances are the guy I dealt with wont be there any longer.


There are dealerships that offer a pleasant buying experience but they're few and far between. I've been to dealerships in all 50 states, Canada and Puerto Rico and I can count on 1 hand the number that offer a true customer-centric experience regardless of how they bill themselves.


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## jp1979 (Sep 12, 2013)

And I never said destination was in the msrp, it's on the window sticker, the bottom right price is sticker price which includes all options and desto.


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## tnlawyer (Jul 17, 2013)

This thread is dumb. :lol:


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## Billb1960 (Oct 10, 2014)

tnlawyer said:


> This thread is dumb. :lol:


What it lacks in quality it makes up in quantity


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## jp1979 (Sep 12, 2013)

This thread is the thread that just won't die.


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## droy1958 (Sep 3, 2014)

Went from cigars to cars. Reminds of the thread that went from Drew to brew...All is well in Puffland again...


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## Aithos (Jul 13, 2014)

usafvet509 said:


> So,
> 
> A while back, I was engaged in some bidding on CI's Make Me An Offer program. I was bidding on the CAO Dream Team Sampler, which was priced regularly at $29.99. I bid $20/unit for 2, and was denied. Hmm, ok, I can bend a little... 2 units @ $25 each. Denied again? :hmm:
> I have run into this issue before with these guys. I had at this point had my fill. I deleted my account, and requested a stop on the catalogs. I was not asked why, if there was something they could do to keep my business, etc. Later on, I contacted them by email, saying if they wanted to keep my business, they would tend to and resolve my grievance.
> ...


Ok, so wait... you were on the completely optional make a bid portion of the site, bidding on a sampler that used to be quite a bit more expensive and has been $30 since it went on daily deal and you're upset that they wouldn't go lower? You honestly think that it's bad customer service because they didn't accept your *offer* on a pack of cigars that in a store would have cost twice as much or more? Exactly why do you think they are obligated to discount that further?

I would just like to say this for the record: I'm a pretty nice guy, I'm trying *really* hard not to flip out on the OP here. I worked in sales/management for over a decade and to put it as nicely as possible: you're what we refer to as an "ad shopper" or "entitled" customer who comes in, only wants lower than the lowest price because you think you can haggle on anything. Then when someone won't haggle because it's an ad item (or map pricing/price locked) you throw a fit, curse about how awful the customer service is and how you're are never spending another dollar there again (as if you ever really made the company much in profit anyway).

You've got it completely backwards. You aren't important, they don't need your business and you *may* end up needing them if you continue acting the way you are and treating everyone like garbage. You'll end up with nowhere to shop because you thought the world revolved around your purchase decision and it doesn't, people deserve to be treated with respect and if you don't then you deserve what you get in terms of service (or a lack of). I'd have laughed at you if tried to pull that shit with me and then secretly hoped you would be forced to take a customer service job at a store between september and january so you can see what it's like to be screamed and at treated like garbage for 65 hours a week.

I seriously need to just go to bed before I say something really mean cause I'm pretty heated. Sorry guys.


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## jp1979 (Sep 12, 2013)

Someone is 11 pages late to the party... :tease:


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## Aithos (Jul 13, 2014)

@jp1979 I wasn't on much the last couple days, so I didn't see this early on. When I see a topic like this I can't help but respond because people give salespeople and customer service a really hard time and it's often not deserved. I very rarely have what I would consider to be a bad experience.



Billb1960 said:


> There are dealerships that offer a pleasant buying experience but they're few and far between. I've been to dealerships in all 50 states, Canada and Puerto Rico and I can count on 1 hand the number that offer a true customer-centric experience regardless of how they bill themselves.


It's all a matter of your perspective, and how you are treated during the sales process is a direct reflection of your attitude during the process. I've almost *NEVER* had a bad experience with a sales person in buying anything, including cars and other major purchases. Why? Because I worked in sales for over a decade and I know how to treat people, particularly salespeople to make the experience for them good. Customers are incredibly self-centered, most people don't even stop to think how hard the process is from the other end and have no idea the kind of abuse salespeople take day in and day out and have to maintain a cheerful and polite demeanor.

Let me put it to you this way: imagine you're amazingly good at you job, top 5% in the country, you should be making six figures but you're making 30k a year because it's the middle of the recession. You used to have 22 co-workers but now there is 13, so on top of your nearly 70 hours a week there aren't enough people to handle all the customers so they are getting upset at being ignored or rushed. Now, pretend that every single person comes through the door with an ad and wants something that's going to take you 30 minutes to sell and make you a dollar at most and then they are going to *scream* at you when you offer them a warranty or an accessory/add-on. Still with me? Now pretend that everything that has nothing to do with your job goes horribly wrong, the boat with your product got caught in a tsunami, the second boat hit an iceberg and the truck with the third shipment ran into the person's house during the delivery and they left whatever they bought in the yard and ran for it. Guess who's getting reamed over the phone AND in person for an hour? Yep, you.

Now shit is getting real, your boss in on your ass because your numbers are down and the executives want heads to roll. Stress is making you lose weight and you're 30 pounds under what might be considered healthy, you aren't sleeping at all and you feel sick all the time. You can't pay your bills, your credit is ruined and you aren't entirely sure whether to pay the electricity or buy some food in case your next commission check is non-existent....

Now picture the OP comes in to your store, let's see how great of a customer experience you give him.... GO!

Edit: again, I'm sorry for the rants, still heated and this topic is a personal button for me cause I've lived that story and it was less than awesome. Now I am actually going to bed, hope no one is terribly offended...I may have to edit in the morning again if it looks like any of this was too inappropriate and I'm just not seeing it clearly.


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## jp1979 (Sep 12, 2013)

Funny thing is, I was herfing with one of the guys from botl.org last week and he asked me why I don't post much on their board? Told him that "there isn't enough drama or controversial threads over there to keep me interested... But it's been pretty weak in that respect on Puff, so I may be over there more...." Then this thread pops up....... And I get sucked right back in.


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## Billb1960 (Oct 10, 2014)

Aithos said:


> @jp1979 I wasn't on much the last couple days, so I didn't see this early on. When I see a topic like this I can't help but respond because people give salespeople and customer service a really hard time and it's often not deserved. I very rarely have what I would consider to be a bad experience.
> 
> It's all a matter of your perspective, and how you are treated during the sales process is a direct reflection of your attitude during the process. I've almost *NEVER* had a bad experience with a sales person in buying anything, including cars and other major purchases. Why? Because I worked in sales for over a decade and I know how to treat people, particularly salespeople to make the experience for them good. Customers are incredibly self-centered, most people don't even stop to think how hard the process is from the other end and have no idea the kind of abuse salespeople take day in and day out and have to maintain a cheerful and polite demeanor.
> 
> ...


Dealers have made their own beds. The whole 'turn & burn' process of selling cars is seriously broken and has been for many years. Car sales people are treated like cannon fodder as evidenced by your analogy. The average lifespan of a dealership general manager is about 2 years last I checked. Like I said there are a few who truly get the customer-centric experience but most don't.


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## jp1979 (Sep 12, 2013)

Billb1960 said:


> Dealers have made their own beds. The whole 'turn & burn' process of selling cars is seriously broken and has been for many years. Car sales people are treated like cannon fodder as evidenced by your analogy. The average lifespan of a dealership general manager is about 2 years last I checked. Like I said there are a few who truly get the customer-centric experience but most don't.


Really depends on the upper management you work for, I know just as many guys that have been GM's for 10+ years as I do guys that were for under 2. Some guys get burnt out, myself included, on the heavy pressure and the hours. I worked at the same dealership as a salesman for 7 years and did very well for myself. I worked at a Chevy store that sold 700 cars a month, we were there till midnight or later everyday of the week, made an ass load of cash but got tired of it quick. Unless you have spent any real time working in the car business you really have no clue how it works or what our lives are like. Sometimes it's awesome, sometimes it's not.... Still couldn't imagine doing anything else.


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## thechasm442 (Jan 21, 2014)

cakeanddottle said:


>


hahaha, classic, one of my favorite videos ever. I wanted to bump you but it said I love you too much!


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## thechasm442 (Jan 21, 2014)

Aithos said:


> @jp1979 I wasn't on much the last couple days, so I didn't see this early on. When I see a topic like this I can't help but respond because people give salespeople and customer service a really hard time and it's often not deserved. I very rarely have what I would consider to be a bad experience.
> 
> It's all a matter of your perspective, and how you are treated during the sales process is a direct reflection of your attitude during the process. I've almost *NEVER* had a bad experience with a sales person in buying anything, including cars and other major purchases. Why? Because I worked in sales for over a decade and I know how to treat people, particularly salespeople to make the experience for them good. Customers are incredibly self-centered, most people don't even stop to think how hard the process is from the other end and have no idea the kind of abuse salespeople take day in and day out and have to maintain a cheerful and polite demeanor.
> 
> ...


Great post. It goes to all levels of retail really. A few years back if anyone remembers, there was a nationwide shortage on canned pumpkin mix. It was a production issue, and individual stores could not carry stock. I was called unspeakable things by customers that holiday season. Middle aged women called me words that my own mother would probably murder me for saying. Old ladies threw things at me. They threw things at me. Seriously. It was all my fault. I was running a store nowhere near a pumpkin patch or factory, but somehow I was responsible for a nationwide canned pumpkin mix shortage.

The point is, people have become ridiculous. I feel for the salesman, and while I tend to buy most of my products online, and vehicles are always used, I still treat every single person in customer service or sales with respect and dignity. I get the long hours and shit pay. You have to make everybody happy, even when they are wrong, smile while you do it, and go home without so much as a single thank you. But at least you can enjoy a good cigar after work, and I guess that's what's important. :ss

---end rant---


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## usafvet509 (Oct 21, 2013)

@jp1979 , @LostMason , thank YOU for that! :yo:


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## Billb1960 (Oct 10, 2014)

jp1979 said:


> Really depends on the upper management you work for, I know just as many guys that have been GM's for 10+ years as I do guys that were for under 2. Some guys get burnt out, myself included, on the heavy pressure and the hours. I worked at the same dealership as a salesman for 7 years and did very well for myself. I worked at a Chevy store that sold 700 cars a month, we were there till midnight or later everyday of the week, made an ass load of cash but got tired of it quick. Unless you have spent any real time working in the car business you really have no clue how it works or what our lives are like. Sometimes it's awesome, sometimes it's not.... Still couldn't imagine doing anything else.


Well I guess 30 years working with dealers all over the country isn't "real time".


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## jp1979 (Sep 12, 2013)

Billb1960 said:


> Well I guess 30 years working with dealers all over the country isn't "real time".


What do you do?


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## dj1340 (Mar 30, 2009)

Time to put this dead horse down.


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