# Wineador trials and tribulations - Stage 2



## Dual-500 (Feb 20, 2012)

BACKGROUND:
I took the plunge in December 2011 from a couple of table top humidors to a Wine Cooler conversion setup. The first generation or Phase 1 system used an Avanti 28 bottle Thermoelectric wine cooler with a Charleston 7 drawer humidor slid into it. Initially I used a Hydra SM for moisture. That worked fairly well, until the first Hydra failed in the first 6-8 weeks of use. This discussion isn't about the Hydra, Beads, or Kittly litter - nor is it about Thermoelectrtic -vs- Freon. It's about sharing some of what I have learned about using coolers or referigerators for cigar storage - to help the next guy getting ready to take the plunge. What I do may or may not be the best method or equipment, but it's what I do. Always willing to learn so, discussion is always interesting.

When doing initial research about Freon -vs- Thermoelectric, I read comments about Freon based units pulling moisture out of cigars. Didn't understand how that could be at that time. What I know now is that an incorrectly setup Freon based could indeed pull moisture out of cigars. This I learned recently when the first cooler, a 28 bottle Avanti failed after 23 months of service. After the dissapointment of the unit not cooling any more, I discussed the situation with a long time friend that is a repair technician with 30+ years experience in a large medical facility. They have many coolers for storage of drugs, chemicals and tissue samples, etc. His comments were simple, Freon based referigeration technology is much more reliable than Thermoelectric. I took his comments and my own personal experience with Thermoelectric units and decided to switch over to a Freon cooled unit in the hopes it would have better longevity.

During the initial research in setting up a Wineador I looked at several project threads. Some were custom drawers, some prefab drawers slid into wine coolers, most of not all were the Thermoelectric type. Some planked the sides and back with cedar in addition to cedar drawers. One guy slid a pre-fab multi-drawer humidor into a wine cooler with the rational that if the unit failed, no problem to move into another. I chose that path.

First purchase at a local appliance store was the Avanti 28 bottle thermoelectric wine cooler. Then I measured the inside and found a nice 7 drawer humidor that fit inside it. A Charleston 7 drawer humidor. I modified the humidor as follows: 1) Put feet under it to raise it up ~4" from the bottom of the cooler, 2) cut a hole in the bottom and installed an 80mm 12v computer fan to pull air out of the humidor, 3" drill a series of 1" holes in the back of the humidor near the top to serve as air vents. Also, installed a digital hygrometer in the middle drawer, removed lock and replaced with a custom know on the front door and installed a magnetic door latch.

This setup worked well, and as mentioned initially I used a Hydra SM for moisture management. When the Hydra went kaput, I tried Kitty Litter after discussing with a cigar pal on one of the car forums I belong to. The Kitty Litter arrangement worked well, so well in fact that the Hydra was never reinstalled. I kept the unit at the highest temperature setting of 64 degrees, left it plugged in year round and RH maintained in the 65-67% region throughout the year. With the Kitty Litter in a bread loaf size tin pan sitting under the humidor, the unit only required service with distilled water 3 or 4 times a year. This is with daily access to pull the evening smoke out.

That brings the timeline up to today and the transition from (Phase 1) with the Avanti 28 bottle thermoelectric wine cooler to the (Phase 2) and transitioning over to a Freon system in an Igloo model MIS1530 36 bottle beverage and wine center cooler. Both units served to house a Charleston 7 drawer humidor.

The Stage 1 setup worked well. Transition to Stage 2 was driven by premature failure of the Avanti cooler.


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## Dual-500 (Feb 20, 2012)

Some pictures of the initial setup showing modifications to the Charleston humidor.

http://www.senorpanadero.net/uploader/userfiles/stevew/Cigars/New Humidor Fan 3.jpg

http://www.senorpanadero.net/uploader/userfiles/stevew/Cigars/67% RH.jpg

http://www.senorpanadero.net/uploader/userfiles/stevew/Cigars/Humidor Rework 2.jpg

http://www.senorpanadero.net/uploader/userfiles/stevew/Cigars/Humidor Rework 4.jpg

As the Stage 2 Igloo conversion project progresses I'll post pictures


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## Dual-500 (Feb 20, 2012)

Initial testing of the Igloo freon based cooler shows what I believe are the "how and why" of RH issues. I ran the rig all week with the humidor installed inside it along with the Kittly Litter (no cigars). The first thing I noticed was the run time when the compressor cycles a cool down period. The cooling system in the Avanti thermoelectric cooler was a ~4" wide aluminum finned heat sink that was about 8" long with a small centrifugal fan blowing over it. It would typically run about 3-5 minutes of "On" to keep the cooler at 64 F. The Igloo freon based unit runs 10-12 minutes per cool down cycle set at 60 F, near it's highest point of 61 F. This yields an internal temperature of 65 F when measured with auxillary thermometers. The Igloo freon cooler has a flat plate inside the cooler mounted at the top of the back wall of the cooler. It measures about 12" square and has no fans in it. Overall cooling power of the Igloo is probably 3-5 times that of the Avanti. This is where the issues lie when it comes to drying out of cigars in a freon based unit, or at least with the Igloo. In conjunction with the passive type thermo coupling in the Igloo unit, the temperature probe is mounted in a cutout area in the side panel of the cooler. The temperature sensor in the Igloo is damped (probably both mechanically and electronically) much more than that of the Avanti unit. The temperature readout on the door will read a steady 60 F while the internal temperature varies 15 degrees or more during a cool down cycle with the compressor running. What happens during the lengthy cool down cycles is where the problem lies for cigar storage. The temperature plummets within the cooler and the evaporator coil (part inside the unit that cools it) chills down and starts collecting condensation moisture. This condensation is when the freon based cooling system wrings the moisture out of the air. Looking at the hygrometer in the humidor when the cooler runs a cool cycle shows the RH to drop ~20%, from 65% down to 45-47%. Temperature within the cooler drops down 15-20 degrees as well to the 47-50 F range. Not a good situation. I won't claim this to be true of all freon based units, but it is how the Igloo works.

What to do?

Being an engineering type by nature, this looks like a fun and interseting project. I probably would have been lost 2 years ago, but having a little experience with wine coolers helps. At least I think it does, that is yet to be seen. One thing I am fairly sure of at this point - the Igloo freon based unit is not suitable for cigar storage without some modifications and will probably cause cigars to "dry out" or at least not provide optimum storage conditions as the RH has some downward swings that are undesirable at a minimum. My guess is that with normal cycling of the cooling system in the Igloo freon based cooler, the RH swings it causes would never let the cigars normalize.

On to the project.


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## Dual-500 (Feb 20, 2012)

THIS IS A SCIENCE PROJECT - needed to say that.

My path, with the choice of a freon based beverage/wine cooler isn't the simplest solution by any means. Using electronics from when I purchased the first cooler and never put into use. The first cooler ended up basically a Plug & Play setup and didn't need auxillary temperature control. Probaby would have improved on things, but it worked just fine as it was so I never got around to "Fix" it.

I have the control box wired up enough for testing. Did a couple of days of testing and it works well. So, I took it back off of the cooler and am lengthening the wire lengths on the temparature sensors and humidity sensor. Also, waiting for the 4 x 120mm 12v fans to arrive, figured they would be here today, but no show yet, probably arrive Black Friday.

I'll try and produce a schematic of the thing and post it up. Testing went well, comparisons have been made and significant improvement in performance achieved. The cooler, empty and running a cool down cycle from 65 F, as noted above runs for ~12 minutes and cools the thing down to 43 F. Way too much temperature swing for cigar storage. With the new temperature controller connected and temperature probe laying in the bottom of the cooler, with it empty on a cool down cycle only has a 5 degree maximum downward temperature swing. With the setpoint at 65 degrees, it cycles on at 66 F, runs for just under 3 minutes and shuts the compressor off at 64 F. Then the internal temperature continues to track downwards for another 3-5 minutes to 61 F. This is with the cooler empty, adding the 7 drawer humidor will serve to dampen the temperature swing and it's probably close enough to use in that confuguration.

But, I want better. That's where the 4 x 120 mm fans come into play. The Igloo is convection cooled and no fans. Adding the 120mm fans will serve two purposes. 1) Making a better interface between the cooling system (evaporator coil) and the contents of the cooler to include humidor and air volume, Kitty Litter, pans, probes, wires, moisture, etc. - which will serve to reduce run time of the compressor during cool down cycles. 2) Greatly reduce or completely eliminate any condensation. Once the fans arrive, I'll mount them in front of the evaporator coil/plate. Then some more testing to determine fan run time and cycling. Initially, I'm thinking just turn them on and off syncronized with the compressor. That's where I'll start the next phase of testing. Also, I'll add the Kittly Litter and start watching the RH tracking. A friend suggested putting a couple of bottles of water inside the rig to help dampen temperature swings and I agree with him, a very good idea. Since there is plenty of room inside the cooler, it will have a gallon or so of water in it - in sealed container(s) of course.

When the 7 drawer humidor goes into the new cooler, the fan in it will be set to run only between compressor cycles. The old setup, the fan ran constantly. It's on a speed controller and is slowed down, but ran 24/7. With the new setup, the fan will be on a relay. the NC side of the relay that will control the 4 x 120mm fans that will be in front of the evaporator or cooling plate. This will serve as an additional environmental buffer for the environment where the cigars reside. After compressor completes cool down cycle, the fan in the humidor will return to operate. It may be a timer will be added to the fans to delay turn off on the evaporator fans and delay the re-start of the humidor fan. That will be determined when the fans are installed and the next phase of testing is performed.


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## Dual-500 (Feb 20, 2012)

The WILLHI temperature and humidity controllers have 5A rated relays in them, SPST type. I use them to control some auxillary 12v relays with higher current ratings on the contacts. One for the fans is a DPDT configuration with 10A rated contacts. The other is a standard 12v Bosch automotive relay, SPDT type with 30A rated contacts - that one is for the compressor. I had these relays laying around from other projects and decided to go ahead and use them.

The Edison plug to the right of the 12 lugh terminal strip is switched on and off by the 30A rated Bosch relay and the cooler plugs into it. The unit is "On" all the time and has no on-off switch so when power is applied it goes to it's default temperature of 46 F and after a slight delay, the compressor cycles on and it runs until the temperature controller removes the 12v to the relay coil.


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## Dual-500 (Feb 20, 2012)

Project is almost complete. RTV on the inside RH where the original temperature probe was in a cavity is drying. Will take a couple of more days to dry completely. Did an initial temperature test run after installing the evaporator plate fans in it with the cooler empty. "0" mass inside to dampen temperature swing from cool cycle. The initial test was posted above with the stock thermostat setup and again with the Willhi remote temperature controller. With the temperature probe installed to the LH side of the cooler near the top and the four 120mm avaporator plate fans installed the temperature tracks dead on with the controller set points. The first cool down cycle the compresor ran for 1:33 and cooled it down from 67F to 64F with a set point of 65F. With the door closed it cycled on again after about 5 minutes and the compressor ran for 27 seconds and it shut off again at 64F. Looking good on all tests so far. I picked up some Rubber Maid "Blue Ice" packs to keep inside to further dampen temperature swings.

Picures should speak for themselves - I'll post more when I put the humidor inside and begin seasoning and final testing in a couple of days after the RTV has fully dried.


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## stin187 (Jan 4, 2014)

Great thread sir! I'm looking into designing a system similar to this for my wineador as well. Did you ever happen to jot down that wiring diagram? Thanks for posting this as it's been very helpful!


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## Dual-500 (Feb 20, 2012)

The wiring was done freestyle - not my first rodeo. I'll create a schematic for the thread to complete the how to plans. Also a basic parts list. Give me a couple of days. The system is seasoned in and up and working now with a few cigars in it. I may do a bit more tweaking to it - add a couple of fans in the bottom to blow over the bread pans full of kitty litter to promote faster recovery of RH level when the door is opened. The fans will be controlled by the Willhi humidity controller relay and be 12v like the other fans. Also considering a fan delay controller to run evaporator fans for 2-3 minutes after compressor shuts off.

Thus far, it's working well. I reset the Hysteresis on the temperature controller from 1 degree to 2 degrees and set point to 68 degrees F. Now, the temperature climbs to 70.0 F and the compressor comes on cooling it down to 67.9 F.  This change has decreased compressor runs to about once an hour or less.

RH level inside the humidor is 68% and appears to be stable. RH swings down about 10% inside the cooler when compressor runs. If climbs back up over a 5-10 minute time period. The humidor circulation fan shuts off during compressor runs so the cigars really don't encounter the RH drop. Probably not really a big deal, but with a fan Delay timer and a couple of more circulation fans near the media it can be reduced further. More to follow on that.

Glad this was helpful.


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## stin187 (Jan 4, 2014)

Awesome man! Thanks for taking the time.


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## Bondo 440 (Jul 24, 2012)

Nice job. Some of that hardware looks familiar

:tu:


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## Dual-500 (Feb 20, 2012)

Some final pictures of the build. The initial setup didn't have a delay on the internal fans. They switched on and off with the compressor. There was a slight drop of the RH within the cooler after a cool down cycle and I figured it to be the result of condensation accumulation on the evaporator plate. Appears that was the case. I ordered a 12V fan delay timer and installed it. Now, after a cool down cycle, the RH returns to normal or set point faster. Timer is set for a 5-6 minute run time. There are jumpers on the circuit board of the time to adjust operating paramaters. I set it up to trigger from a 12V positive voltage applied to the trigger input. When the temperature controller calls for a cool down cycle, the relay in the controller closes sending 12V to the compressor control Bosch 30A relay and also to the fan delay timer. The compressor cycles on and the ELK-960 fan delay timer begins a cycle: turning off the humidor circulation fan and turning on the evaporator plate fans. The compressor runs for about 1 minute and turns off, while the evaporator plate fans continue to run for another 4-5 minutes and humidor fan remains off.

Once the timer runs it's 6 minute cycle, the evaporator plate fans turn off and the humidor circulation fan turns back on. Buy this time, the RH in the cooler has returned to it's quiescent or set point and all is well. The cigars, being inside the humidor are not subjected to any of this. Not that it would probably matter anyway.



















Here's a basic block diagram of the controller.










stin187 requested a wiring diagram. I created the block diagram above in Microsoft Visio. I chose to do a block diagram format -vs- wire to wire schematic due to complexity and time. If anyone needs a wire by wire schematic, send me a PM and I'll crank one out by hand. Won't take too long to do a full up schematic, I'll take the block diagram from Visio and just lay in the wiring by hand as an overlay.

I'll post up some final thoughts on the project after I run it a month or two. Thus far, after installing the fan "Off" delay timer it's running very well and maintains temperature and RH levels very well. One thing I would do differently if approaching this as an initial build would be a larger humidor. The 150 count Charleston Humidor was the largest that would fit within the initial 28 bottle Avanti wine cooler I purchased. That was where the project started, so I needed a humidor that would fit inside the Avanti. The Igloo beverage cooler is a 36 bottle size and a 200 count humidor will fit inside it. That will be a future upgrade, a larger 200 count, 7 drawer humidor.

This has been a fun project. Developing the system, doing the testing along the way, and making changes which yielded the desired results made it a pleasurable experience. Thanks to those along the way that posted their projects and shared experience and insights as that was of immeasurable benefit in execution of this project.

I'll also put together a basic parts list for the build in the next few days and post it up in the thread.


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## Dual-500 (Feb 20, 2012)

The basic parts list:










Some of the components are overkill. These are components I had laying around from other projects like the 12V 8A power supply module and the 30A rated 12V Bosch relay, 1/4" aluminum plate, etc.


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## Dual-500 (Feb 20, 2012)

Here's a picture of a Coleman cold pack (10 are in the cooler):










Need to give credit to my long time pal Tom for suggesting use of the cold packs to further dampen temperature swings. On the topic of temperature swings. The Avanti cooler as well as the new Igloo cooler have a default set point of around 56 degrees F. When electric service drops out, the coolers return to the default temperature set point when the electric service is restored. I came home several times the first 2 years using a Wine Cooler finding my cigars had been cooled down to 56 degrees. While it didn't cause any noticable problems, it's not a condition I want in my setup. So, with virtually any type of beverage or wine cooler system REMOTE TEMPERATURE CONTROL is a must in my opinion. With the remote temperature controller, when power is removed and restored to the setup, it keeps the established temperature set point and resumes normal operation.

What did it cost? Somewhere around $200 for the controller & enviromental setup, $175 for the 36 bottle Igloo beverage cooler, and as I recall the Charleston humidor was $175 or so. Probably came in under $600 bucks for the whole mama-jama.


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## stin187 (Jan 4, 2014)

Great build! Thanks for taking the time to document it. This info was very helpful in the build I've just finished and have settling in.


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## Dual-500 (Feb 20, 2012)

^ Very good sir. Are you going to or have you posted some pictures? Feel free to use this thread if you haven't yet.


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## Incognito11 (Jul 18, 2013)

Incredible build! It is great to see someone to take the initiative to build a complete custom system.
I've been toying with a custom route as nothing so far has truly impressed me.
Thank you very much for for taking the time to write this up and explain the information gained over a bad ass build!


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## Dual-500 (Feb 20, 2012)

Thank you.

KaChong has an interesting thread on customizing Freon based rigs in this forum. He used a large aluminum plate with fans in front of the evaporator. Similar solution to the path I ended up with. I added mass and fans with a bit different twist. He nailed it and explains it well - condensation must be eliminated - that's the key design element.

Once you can control the temperature, without condensation, maintaining the RH is easy.

It's working well so far. I like custom projects so this build was fun once I felt confident undertaking it. The failure of the Avanti was the nudge I needed. 

What really got it to this point was I like smoking good cigars with a bit of variety. The best prices are by the box, which means storage of a few boxes at a minimum. So, I had to improve my skills at storage and also obtain the proper equipment. There ya are....


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## smitty8202 (Dec 3, 2013)

very nice write up. cant wait to be able to afford a full wineador setup.


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## Dual-500 (Feb 20, 2012)

^ Thanks. They are worth the effort and expense IMO.

Here's a couple of pictures of the finished up project in operation. Showing the Coleman Ice substitute packs in place. Hygrometer in the face of center drawer reads a few points high. There is a small one inside the drawer that is calibrated and reads both RH & temperature. Inside of box is tracking at 68% RH and 69 F. With door open the digital controller hygrometer drops fast - down to 62% in about 15 seconds.


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## Dual-500 (Feb 20, 2012)

UPDATE 2/3/2014

Been a couple of weeks. Things have been running along fairly well. Willhi Humidity Controller has been reading high - like 7-10 points high. Figured it just went out of whack, so a week or so ago I ordered an additional hygrometer to monitor things. Now for RH monitoring there is the Willhi, some piece of crap in the front of the center drawer of the humidor, a Caliber III and the newest Hygroset (#DHYG-SL) that showed up Saturday. I also ordered a couple of Boveda 65% bags for calibration checks - I have a couple of 75.5% kits as well.

Saturday afternoon I put the Hygrometers in a zip lock bag with one of the 65% Boveda bags. Put that into an empty drawer of the humidor inside the cooler overnight for maximum temperature stability. Next morning, set the knob on the Hygroset -4 clicks to read 65%. The Caliber III was sitting dead on 65% and the POS that fits the front middle drawer of the humidor read 70%, which I don't really care about.

So, tonight I decided to check the RH in the system as it was a bit out of whack from the high readings of the Willhi. I didn't know which Hygrometer to trust prior to the re-calibration, so as it would be, I trusted the two that were reading the farthest off. Anyway, the Caliber III was still dead on. By reading incorrect hygrometer readings, I pulled moisture out of the KL and the inside of the Cooler is running a bit below where it should be. Inside of Humidor reads 65%, so fortunately it's not murdering my cigars. Been on a 5 a week buying pattern for the past couple of months while I sort things out from the Avanti failure last October. So, there's only 3 or 4 stogies in the middle drawer right now.

As luck would have it, I had been working on my HT system amp rack over the weekend and it was down to wiring in some temporary 12V fan speed controllers in the rack to keep amps cool while I finish up building the main switching power center and fan power supply and speed controllers that are in a 3 space rack mount computer case. That's another project, but had a tie in to the Wineador this evening as I had been messing around with some small 12V computer type Zalman fan speed controllers. While adjusting them, uses 4 in the big amp rack, I noticed they put out some heat. So, after wiring up the fans and setting speed controllers to limit fan noise from the rack, I went over to the Wineador to check speed controller for heat.

Sure enough it was warm to the touch. Bottom line, it produces heat, not much, but enough in a Wineador when mounted in close proximity to the Willhi humidity sensor it will throw it out of whack. So, I got a thin putty knife and carefully cut through the hot melt glue that held it in place and removed it from the side wall of the Wineador. It's now hanging in the air about a foot to the rear of the sensor and down about 6-8" or so. The Willhi Humidity Sensor settled right down and is reading in line with the Caliber III.

I use the Caliber III mounted near the Willhi as a sanity check and the new Hygroset inside the Humidor.

Since the fan controller generates heat, it's going to be relocated outside the Cooler and incorporated into the controller box. I'll post some pictures once I do the work.

Here's a shot showing the Zalman Fan Mate fan speed controller mounted to the left of the Willhi humidity sensor. The chrome capped wires below the humidity sensor are the temperature sensors for the Willhi Humidity controller and the Willhi Temperature controller. Seems that they were also probably a bit skewed from the heat created from the nearby fan speed controller on the left of the picture.










More to follow on this once I get the changes made. Glad I figured this out when I did as there are a couple of boxes of cigars on the way that may arrive the end of this week. Wink wink.

One other thing I would have done differently is to use double sided tape or stick on Velcro to mount the sensors instead of hot melt glue. No big deal to correct and I will do so when moving the fan speed controller.


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## Dual-500 (Feb 20, 2012)

Fan speed controller for the humidor fan has been re-located from inside the refrigerator mounted on the side close to the humidity sensor. It now resides outside the refrigerator mounted on the side of the control box.

As soon as it was re-located things settled down in the system with regard to RH fluctuations. It's been at last 8 weeks since servicing the KL Silica sand with distilled water. RH is slowly moving downwards as expected and is now at 65% inside the humidor. I'll spray it with distilled water the next week or so.

Will post up some pictures soon.


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## timgrant (May 4, 2014)

This is a really nice build - very impressive! I am also hoping to use one of these beverage coolers in a project - only for controlling the temperature of fermenting beer, not cigars. I'm trying to figure out the depth of the unit minus the compressor space (i.e. the depth of the floor). I don't suppose you happen to have this information to hand? If you do and could share it with me you'd be doing me a big favour.


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## Dual-500 (Feb 20, 2012)

The floor depth from the door seal to the back wall, where the compressor indent resides is 11.75". Further up, from the door seal to the evaporator coil is 17". The internal "shelf" is 8" to 8 1/8" high from the floor to the top of the lowest shelf groove as shown below.










The next change I'm going to make is to insulate the door. I'll probably etch and paint the inside of the glass and use spray on contact cement and 3/4" solid foam insulation.


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## C.Scott (Mar 28, 2014)

Holy cow, how did I not see this thread before?? It's downright creepy how similar my build is to yours (all the way down to the project box with controllers and even a fan in the side with drill holes in the opposite side, terminal blocks, 12v power supply...etc etc.), and you built yours months before I started mine! You probably won't believe me after you see my build, but I honestly built mine before I ever saw this thread, I guess great minds thing (eerily) alike! We should share ideas! Take a look at my wineador build thread - like I said, VERY similar to yours, but with only a couple minor differences.

It doesn't look like you're using an active humidifier, is that right? Because if you're using an active one, I found that you can solve the high RH problem by adding a delay module to the RH controller. Since the RH drops (superficially) when the cooler is running, my humidifier was working overtime when it shouldn't even be running at all, and when the humidor returned to it's higher temperature the RH went up (WAY up) with it. So I added a 5 minute delay (a function which does not exist in our RH controllers) so that my humidifier only runs if the RH has been below minimum threshold for 5 minutes. It also keeps the humidifier from running after I open the door before I have a chance to close it again, something that always drove me nuts about the Cigar Oasis humidifiers.

I also installed a DPST door switch that turns the fan off when the door opens, so it doesn't blow all my cool moist air out. It also activates the lights when the door opens, but there's also a switch on my project box that lets me turn the lights on without opening the door.

Awesome build! I could learn a thing or two from you about wire management


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## C.Scott (Mar 28, 2014)

Also, where did you get that fan controller? I'm just using a $2 potentiometer that I'm a little worried it's going to burn up after a while, since the package didn't have a power rating on it and the fan seems to be happiest with the pot at about 25 ohms. I really don't want parts burning up and making a stinky smoky mess in my wineador!


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## C.Scott (Mar 28, 2014)

Link to my build


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## Dual-500 (Feb 20, 2012)

Fan speed controller is a Zalman Fan Mate 2 purchased online from Newegg. I started out with an Avanti thermoelectric wine cooler with a Hydra SM active humidifier in it. Started having problems with the Hydra, while getting a replacement I tried Kittly Litter and it works so well, with less maintenance so the Hydra's (I have three of them) never went back in. Same for the thermoelectric coolers, the Avanti crapped out at about 22 months of service life so I went with a Freon based unit at the advice of a friend for more reliability.

Your controller box looks very similar to the one I built. You're right about great minds. Actually, it's a case of a solution is a solution - what works works. I use a fan delay on the other side of the equation with much the same results. The evaporator plate fans in my setup run the fans for 5 minutes AFTER the compressor shuts down to return RH level to nominal. Rather than a beverage cooler with the glass door front I was considering using a regular refrigerator as they are insulated better without the glass door front. They have a freezer compartment up top that takes up internal space, so I went with the beverage cooler as it has the flat panel type eveporator plate that doesn't use up internal space within the cooler. I'm going to put a foam panel on the inside of the door to insulate it better - cover the glass.

Good job sir!


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## Dual-500 (Feb 20, 2012)

Still haven't done the door insulation. Will do it soon. Things have been working well, so it's been off to other projects. Bought myself a 2004 Chevy Blazer 4x4 and have been giving it lots of TLC. I noticed last night the circulation fan in the bottom of the humidor isn't working. Haven't done the troubeshooting and corrective action yer. Will probably do it tonight. Last night I took the laptop out to the Blazer and hooked it up to the Rockford Fosgate 3Sixty.3 controller and tuned on the sound system. Much more fun, than fixing the Wineador. Cranked up some great tunes, system is close to being "Tuned". I may use the RTA (Real Time Audio Spectrum Analyzer) on it this weekend just to have a look at it.

I did disconnect the electrical connector on the harness that goes to the front panel controls in the door just to see if the compressor still comes on when power is applied by the custom controller box. It does.

More to follow.


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## momo439 (Nov 8, 2013)

Okay that thread just made it to my favorites. I dream of something like that when I look at the large beverages coolers in supermarkets. I work for the government (okay I know, "government" and "work" don't belong in the same sentence!) and beverage coolers are sometime auctioned for cheap. The thinking machine is on now


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## Dual-500 (Feb 20, 2012)

Good deal - I thought it might interest you. The dual chamber approach works well. A box within a box with the air exchange fan turned off when compressor runs and a couple of minutes past shut off while box stabilizes works very well. Environment inside the humidor is pretty solid. The trade off is $ for a bit of gadgetry and loss of storage space. The size selections I smoke allow for 225 to 250 cigars when it's full.


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## Dual-500 (Feb 20, 2012)

I was thinking about when it was that I put this project together the other day when checking the RH level on one of the internal hygrometers - the one inside the humidor in the center drawer. So I found the build thread and looked at the date. Sitting at 68%, where it's been for a couple of months. The beauty is I haven't had to service it for a couple of months. It's running well, no issues. Put it together in November 2013, so it's coming up on it's second birthday this fall.

Still haven't put the foam sheet on the inside of the door glass - will get around to doing that someday and will post pictures and results for anyone that may have an interest.

Time to head out on the patio with a Hoyo Epicure and basket of Milk Bones for the doggies.


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## meph (Jun 12, 2015)

looks like an interesting project... would it be possible to fix the pics from the previous posts? its not showing up for me. TIA


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## Dual-500 (Feb 20, 2012)

meph said:


> looks like an interesting project... would it be possible to fix the pics from the previous posts? its not showing up for me. TIA


Yes, not sure what happened to them. I'll look into it and correct. I did a reply with quote and found that the pictures were uploaded to [email protected] or some such place. Not going to mess with that.

I'll repost them - or the important ones anyway. There you are sir. It was a fun and interesting little science project and it works well. It got to the point of making changes as the design developed/evolved and achieved predictable results. One change I've made since the pictures were taken is to remove the 4 freezer bottles from on top of the humidor and now there is a zip lock freezer bag on top with a box of Bolivar Belicoso's Finos aging with 4 large 69% Boveda bags in with them. I usually let the Bolivar's age for at least 6 months before smoking. The freezer bottles aren't needed, at least not 10 of them. I left the 6 on the sides as they will keep things stable during power outages while I'm away from the house. Which happens from time to time.

*Many thanks to others that have shared their projects, ideas and experience.*


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## Dual-500 (Feb 20, 2012)

Been a while since I've posted anything on this project. Things are working great. Made a few minor changes 1) Pulled the "Freezer Packs" out, not needed (originally installed for additional temperature stabilization. 2) Changed out the loaf pans used for the Kitty Litter to some slightly larger Tupper Ware pans. Total media capacity is now 2.5 lbs per pan, which holds the whole 5 lb bag of Kitty Litter.

Just making the change now, don't expect any difference other than I would have left over media to store when I change it out - do that every year or two, whenever I think about it. And, maybe a bit less maintenance (I only have to add moisture 3-4 times a year right now).










RH hygrometer on the front of the middle drawer reads ~2% high. Inside the box sits right at 67% most of the time.










The item on top of the humidor is a zip lock bag with a box of Bolivar Belicosos Finos and 65% Boveda bag in for a two year seasoning. They'll be ready fall of 2018. I use the space in the cooler around the outside of the humidor of aging/seasoning. A couple of more boxes are on the way, it'll be a full house soon.

Coming up on the 5 year mark of using Wineadors and it's the way to go for me - very pleased with the results. Maintains RH, cigars age and smoke well, and very low maintenance.


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## Dual-500 (Feb 20, 2012)

Thanks to selpo for advice on data loggers. I picked up a couple of the sensorpush units and set them up tonight. Very easy to pair to iPad, download the app and it's done. Took less than 10 minutes to download and setup and they work great. One inside the humidor and one ine the cooler space.

Now a few words about the media changeout and larger pans. When I first transitioned from active humidifiers (Hydra SM's) to pans of kitty litter it was pretty straight forward and I trusted the advice of the guys that recommended it. I sifted the dry litter out of the bag through a large kitchen type screen strainer to get rid of the finest particles and dust, sprayed it with distilled water in a large stainless steel salad bowl and put it in the bread loaf pans in the bottom of the cooler as pictured in this thread. Life was good for 3+ years. Add moisture when needed with spray bottle and pull one or both pans out for a day or three to dry out when needed mid summer when the RH would begin to climb a bit.

I decided to change out the media as it was 2+ years old and figured larger pans would be a good idea as well. Had the two pans and they each hold 2.5 lbs of KL or 1/2 of a 5 lb bag - perfect.

This time, when sifting out the dust in the screen strainer, I used the sink sprayer and rinsed it real well to better wash out the dust and fine particles. In the process it totally saturated the Kitty Litter. No problem, seen plenty of threads where guys put it in the oven to dry it out. Put it in 2 large stainless steel Bowls and into the oven for 2 or 3 hours. Pulled it out, cooled it down, hit it with the spray bottle with some distilled water and put it in the bottom of the cooler. RH started climbing, oh darn, a little too wet, pulled a pan out to air dry. Too much RH with one pan in cooler, pulled that one too. Let them sit outside the cooler a day or so, slide one back in - too much RH again. Back into the stainless bowls and into the over for another 2-3 hours. Must be dry now, no spray bottle this time - same results, too much RH.

Back into the over. About the 4th time in the over and it finally dried it it. The RH dropped, so I began pulling them out every 1/2 hour or so and after 7 or 8 spray bottle sessions it's right. If that was a first experience with Kitty Litter I doubt I would have been that persistent - probably would have decided it didn't work and have moved on to another solution. But, having used KL for the past 3 to 4 years I knew it worked and basically knew what to do to correct the problem. I am amazed how much moisture it can absorb and retain and how long it takes to fully dry it out when completely saturated.

The last trip into the oven was last night and instead of stainless bowls I used a couple of Pyrex glass 13x9 flat pans to spread it out thinner then 3 more hours at 325 F. Once fully dried it took several ounces of distilled water to regain hysteresis in the system. Which makes the engineer in me wonder just how much water does 5 lbs of Kitty Litter need to be in the ballpark for ~67% RH levels.

If I get ambitious I'lol weigh the pans at nominal moisture content, then dry out in the oven & weigh again. That might be useful data for someone setting up a system.

Meanwhile, after I calibrate the data loggers and get a couple of days of logs I'll post up the results.

Again a thank you to selpo for advice on the sensorpush data loggers, they are perfect for cigar storage use.


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## Dual-500 (Feb 20, 2012)

Ok, initial day look at the data loggers. They are kinda sorta aligned to temp/RH by looking at the other sensors - I'll calibrate this weekend. While they may be off a point or two either direction, they accurately depict trends.

First the inside of the humidor, center drawer placement of sensor. The slow climb of RH over 12+ hours is the result of the change in media and me getting it dialed back in last night, shouldn't go go much over 67% now.










Here's a shot at what goes on inside the cooler. During cooling cycles, the circulation fan in the humidor is shut down.










As the house warms throughout the afternoon, the number of cooling cycles increases. Need to put the insulation foam on the glass door front. I reset the data log which will make for better curves and distribution data - as it has startup values from outside the wineador which skewed things a bit.


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## Dual-500 (Feb 20, 2012)

Finally got around to testing on the "Insulate the door" theory. Been putting it off because it involved removal of door for a period of several days while paint/adhesives outgassed and cured. Finally realized today, I can test the idea by duct taping a piece of insulating foam on the outside of the door. I have the data as noted above on cooling cycles, so it's time to rock and roll. I also added another data logger sensor this weekend to monitor the room ambient. To be able to properly evaluate cooling cycle data, the environment needs to be taken into consideration. Same holds true for RH level evaluation and management.

This has been a fun project and I find it interesting. It will be good to finally know and be able to quantify it. Who knows, maybe it will show negligible differences and won't be worth even doing. I really don't know what to expect, but a piece of 3/4" insulating foam is duct taped to the door and "it's on". I'll have some initial results as soon as this evening and post them.










I also ordered 5x of the round digital hygrometers to place inside the zip lock bags with the cigars that are aging - got a couple of Boveda calibration packs as well so everything can get calibrated for a good baseline. If the door proves to make a worthwhile difference, I'll pull it next weekend and get that modification project under way. I'll just use a piece of the insulating foam taped over the front of the cooler while the door is off. Pull a few days of stash out and put in a zip lock bag with a Boveda bag and won't skip a beat.

If you have any kind of active cooled cigar storage system I recommend data loggers. Thanks again to selpo for sharing his solution. Really like having them and it makes it much easier to transition from cigar smoker to "Mad Scientist". 

Initially, I was thinking a refrigerator with solid front door may have been a better option than the beverage cooler with glass door. But, most of them have the freezer compartment in the top, so you loose space. Then, lately I've seen guys using freezers and that's the way I'd go if buying a box. Since I have one that works, I'll modify it to be closer to a freezer and call it a day. A freezer has optimal space inside and a solid insulated door, as well it may be overall insulated better than a cooler or refrigerator.


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## Dual-500 (Feb 20, 2012)

Some screen shots of the data loggers. Insulation on the door has reduced cooling cycles in terms of total number per day and reduced run times on the compressor, softened RH swings inside the cooler. No noticeable change to environment inside the humidor itself. Cycles about 20 times a day now, was cycling 30-32 with same setting on thermostat. Wear and Tear on equipment reduced. Temperature swings have also reduced a bit. I added a sensor to the room to capture ambient conditions. The first thing I noticed was confirming that during the weather transition from summer air conditioning to fall, that the KL was indeed absorbing moisture from the environment in the cooler to maintain desired RH.

Thursday-Monday the RH in the humidor was climbing as it normalized to the moisture content after changeout of the media, adding more KL, larger pans and getting the moisture content adjusted by dumping KL into large stainless steel bowl and misting with distilled water while mixing. The KL was pulling it down to 61-62% until I got enough moisture in it.










Week long shot of the inside of the cooler:










Hourly shot of inside the cooler:










Here's the room:


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## UBC03 (Nov 18, 2015)

So glad I don't understand technology.

Sent from my SM-G925V using Tapatalk


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## Dual-500 (Feb 20, 2012)

^^^ As long as you can light 'em and smoke 'em you're good.


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