idiots and their opinions

Amy

Joined Nov 2003
2K Posts | 0+
Paradise CA
yesterday i was talking with a couple co workers and this loudmouth know it all started sharing his expert opinion on how tobaco is bad for you and how cigars are the worst. naturaly, i am always right so i chimed in and counter point everything he says. he ends up with the argument that cigarettes are better than cigars because they have a filter on them. at this point scenarios of killing this guy starting moving through my head so i decided to leave. this morning i get an email from him, apparently hes not so sure on his opinion and couldnt let it go and sends me this email.

Smoking cigars instead of cigarettes does not decrease the risk of nicotine addiction and the health risks associated with tobacco

CHICAGO -- Smoking cigars is not a safe alternative to cigarette smoking, according to an article in the August 9 issue of The Journal of the American Medical Association (JAMA), a theme issue on tobacco.

Frank Baker, PhD, of the American Cancer Society, Atlanta, and colleagues summarized the principal findings from a conference convened by the American Cancer Society to examine the health risks of cigar smoking. State-of-the-science reports were presented, and 120 attendees (representing government and private agencies, academia, health educators, and tobacco control experts) participated in panels and summary development discussions.

The researchers report that cigar smoking is known to cause cancers of the lung and upper aerodigestive tract. The risk of death related to cigar smoking approaches that of cigarette smoking as the number of cigars smoked and the amount of cigar smoke inhaled increases. Smoking cigars instead of cigarettes does not reduce the risk of nicotine addiction, and cigar-smoking can lead to nicotine dependence even if the smoke is not inhaled. The nicotine in the smoke of a single cigar can vary from an amount approximate to that in a single cigarette to the amount generated by smoking a pack or more of cigarettes.

Baker presented the article here today at a JAMA media briefing on tobacco during the World Conference on Tobacco OR Health.

"The available scientific knowledge on the health risks of cigar smoking is more than sufficient to conclude that cigar smoking is a cause of cancer and a serious risk to the public health," the authors write. "Evidence of the health hazards and an alarming increase in rates of cigar smoking underscore the pressing need for cigars to be included in a coherent national policy on tobacco use and dependence."

"Laws and regulations limiting the marketing of cigarettes and access to cigarettes by minors should be applied to all tobacco products," the authors add.

Among other conclusions reported by the authors:

-- Rates of cigar smoking are rising among both adults and adolescents. Between 1993 and 1997, consumption of all types of cigars in the United States increased by 46.4 percent, reversing a steady decline (66 percent) in cigar consumption from 1964 to 1993. The increase came as the cigar industry intensified its public relations efforts, starting in the mid 1980s. Advertising and promotions for cigars, similar to those for cigarettes, routinely include sexual imagery, affluence, and celebrity endorsement (explicitly and implicitly). But unlike cigarette marketing promotions, those for cigars are not required to mention potential health risks.

-- Environmental cigar smoke can be a major contributor to indoor air pollution, in amounts greater than that produced from cigarettes. "Sidestream smoke ... contributes significant pollutants to the environment in the form of carbon monoxide, nitrogen oxides, respirable suspended particulate matter, nicotine, polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons, and other compounds, and sidestream smoke from cigars does so to a greater degree than the sidestream smoke of cigarettes, when equal amounts of tobacco are burned."

According to the authors, sidestream smoke is the aerosol emitted from the burning cone of a cigar, cigarette, or pipe during the interval between puffs and the portion of the inhaled smoke that is not retained and is exhaled. "Compared with a single cigarette smoked to 70 percent of its mass, a large cigar smoked 70 percent emits about 20 times the carbon monoxide, 5 times the respirable particles, and twice the amount of polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbon," they write. "The research on the heavy impact of secondhand cigar smoke on indoor air pollution is particularly relevant for restricting smoking in restaurants and other public places."

The authors report one study of environmental pollutants from tobacco smoke found the levels of carbon monoxide at cigar banquets and in some cigar smokers' homes equal to carbon monoxide concentrations on crowded California freeways. "The indoor carbon monoxide level measured at a cigar banquet averaged 10 ppm [parts per million] over the 3-hour-20-minute event, and peak levels were comparable to that in a busy parking garage. By comparison, the ambient outdoor carbon monoxide level at rush hour was 1 to 2 ppm," the researchers write.

The authors suggest the need for more research including studies to understand better the nature of tobacco addiction associated with cigar smoking and address the temporal relationships between cigar smoking and the development of disease. They suggest future studies focus on susceptible groups, including younger cigar smokers.

here is my reply
why are you so blind that you take one article as fact. i can show you 10 articles that say the opposite. im talking from personal experience, your talking conjecture and speculation cause you have no first hand experience nor any idea what you are talking about. besides, the article is still talking about inhalation and large number of cigars smoked. an excess and misuse of ANYTHING will become addictive. the article is also taking the worst case scenario smokers, they are not cigar smokers, they are attention whores and nicotine addicts that do inhale cigars. you dont have a clue what it means to be a cigar smoker, all you know is what your obviously shallow cigar smoking associates have practiced and with that small bit of information you have formed an opinion. you will never consider the possibility that this article isnt true because you have already made up your mind. in conclusion, this article is nothing but rambling of an idiot that will tell you the same facts and increase of cancer risk from eating bbq chicken, 10 bucks says the people that wrote this thing dont take care of their cars that guzzle gas at 10 mpg. smoking is not the major risk to people here, its morons like this author and people that cant make up their own minds about things and take facts from the media and other peoples misinformed factoids.
 
Oo-Rah!

Semper Fidelis, brother!

Do you know what that means?
It's the Marine Corps motto. Usually only reserved for Marines, but in this case, a very welcomed exception will be made!

It's latin for Always Faithful.
 
I deal with these type of people a lot. Working in Poughkeepsie, NY and living in CT, there are a lot of anti tobacco people.
Cannot smoke in restaurants or bars in either state (here in CT the bar I used to go had to shut down their cigar bar area).

These people make me f**ing sick. Keep up the good fight jihiggs.
 
i can just see you now....

running around in under armor with fists full of cigars screaming, We Must Protect This House!
 
Way to go jhiggs :thumbsup: These morons need to be put in their place, I get sick listening to all their second hand smoke BS. I could go on a rant but it's Friday, holiday weekend, and I'm gonna smoke as many cigars as I can just to piss these people off.
 
oh yes, a 3 day weekend. that makes me very happy.
 
Markus59 said:
I could go on a rant but it's Friday, holiday weekend, and I'm gonna smoke as many cigars as I can just to piss these people off.

Now that sounds like a great plan!
 
I know that the BS people like this guy spout off is not factual and any person that knows even the least bit about scientific theory and method can see that. And like you said you can explain it all to him but hes already made up his mind. That is why when somebody says that cigars are bad either for me or the environment my only reply is a big exhale.

Even if cigars were truly the source of an increased risk, I'm entitled to subject myself to them the same way the scotch drinker and gambler are entitled to subject themselves to the risks associated with their vices. If these people really want to get on somebody, their time would be much better spent whining about the soccer moms in their Ford F$#@-you-mobiles. Besides, I'm an American dammit and I've come to expect a little cancer in my air--these people need to too.
 
Can I get an AMEN!!!....I grew up with both parents smoking cigarettes, my mom, quit years and years ago. My dad quit about ten years ago. I've never smoked cigarettes, and have just begun smoking cigars in this last year. My girlfriend smokes cigarettes, and is worried I'm going to become a "regular" cigar smoker. Why that would worry her I have no clue...lol. I only have 2 or 3 a week, and usually are smaller, mild cigars.

Since I'm a "newbie" I cant really handle any of the more full bodied cigars. I dont see myself smoking cigars everyday, at least not yet 8) , but I do find myself enjoying them more and more. Is this an addiction to the nicotine,etc? not exactly sure, I just know that anything in moderation isnt going to kill me. I will be looking at more and more "factual" sites and what is printed on the effects of cigar smoking, etc.
 
I read this somewhere a while back, perhaps even here, and it rings true to me.



How often do you see a cigar smoker puffing feverishly on a cigar outside on the sidewalk?
 
What about the studies which show that 'moderate' tobacco use is actually good for you?

In one interview, medical maverick Dr. William Campbell Douglass, who himself smokes 3 to 4 cigars a day, discussed the therapeutic effects of moderate smoking and secondhand smoke. Campbell said he did not always view smoking in a positive light, recalling his early days of practicing medicine when he would refuse to treat patients who continued to smoke.

"Smoking in moderation will not harm you," Campbell explained, citing several medical conditions, including cancer, that can be improved by smoking. In one study he referenced, women who smoked the most were found to have a statistically significant 54% decrease in incidents of breast cancer when compared to woman who never smoked. Campbell also said smoking in moderation can prevent arteries from becoming clogged, as well as relieve the symptoms of Alzheimer's and Parkinson's disease.

According to Campbell, the health benefits of tobacco have been overlooked because of "extremely unreliable" statistics. He pointed out that in Greece and Japan, and other places where smoking is very prevalent, people tend to live longer and healthier lives than in places where smoking is restricted. He also acknowledged the role of diet in overall health and longevity, and recommended a diet rich in animal fat.

------------------

Kind of reminds me of the Woody Allen movie, I think it was entitled "Sleeper", in which the future medical personnel were eating hot fudge sundaes and smoking cigarettes. They were stating that recent studies had shown that those things were actually good for you. Heck, who knows? Wine is bad, wine is good. Coffee is bad, coffee is good. Eggs are bad, eggs are good.

Forget it. Everything is bad in excess, so moderation in everything. (Except sex, of course.)
 
Great post, baboyako, and thanks for the information. Indeed, although I consider commercially produced cigarettes to be an abominable product, I love to use the analogy of Eubie Blake and Andy Kaufman. Blake smoked three packs a day and lived to be 100, while Kaufman, a reputed "health freak," died at 35.

As far as increased risk, as I've said on other posts, it takes smoking two to three Churchill sized cigars A DAY to put you at a slightly to somewhat increased risk of certain cancers, so light up dem stogies and the heck with everybody. :mrgreen:
 
" Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience " :lol:

If the man has decided tobacco is bad, and doesnt want to use it, that would be fine, but trying to run your life isnt any of his business. I hate it when people who 'know better' than I want to make all my descisions for me.
 
I just went to a family get together at my cousin's house and figured what better time to light up a nice smoke than around the firepit. Now I'm "Uncle Stinky" to my nieces. My family can ridicule me all they want because they just don't understand but I was a little offended that they would turn my nieces who I love as if they were my own against me. I got everbody back though when I hugged my cousin goodbye and she wanted to know what I was wearing. HA!

I already said this but I'm going to again:

Even if cigars were truly the source of an increased risk, I'm entitled to subject myself to them the same way the scotch drinker and gambler are entitled to subject themselves to the risks associated with their vices. If these people really want to get on somebody, their time would be much better spent whining about the soccer moms in their Ford F$#@-you-mobiles. Besides, I'm an American dammit and I've come to expect a little cancer in my air--these people need to too.